In 2019, Basecamp released Shape Up, a digital book by head of product strategy Ryan Singer about our approach to product development. Since then, Ryan has added sections in response to reader feedback and released a print edition. Ryan comes back on Rework to talk about connecting with other business owners using Shape Up, and how he approached the editing, design, and distribution of the physical book without going through traditional publishing channels.Show NotesOur episode introducing Shape Up - 00:10Ryan Singer's Twitter | website | newsletter - 00:13Shape Up: Stop Running in Circles and Ship Work that Matters - 00:16Basecamp's other books - 00:43Six-week cycles - 3:08Setting the appetite - 3:36Principles of shaping - 4:29Hill charts - 5:20What about bugs? - 9:48HEY - 10:33Making new products - 11:19Basecamp merch store - 16:21Notability - 16:57Ryan's live sessions are on the Shape Up page - 17:24Ryan's Shape Up Live session with Adam Wathan of Tailwind CSS - 19:34

Unlimited paid time off is a common perk in the tech industry, but as one company discovered, an open-ended vacation policy led to confusion and even burnout. Dan Jimenez of Chatbooks comes on Rework to talk about how they shifted from unlimited to mandatory PTO, and how they're recalibrating expectations for work, productivity, and rest during a turbulent time.Show Notes"How the 'Knives Out' Costume Designer Chose Chris Evans' Perfect Sweater" (The Hollywood Reporter) - 1:50"27 Days in Tokyo Bay: What Happened on the Diamond Princess" (Wired) - 2:16Wailin and Shaun discussed how they spent their sabbaticals in "The Bean Machine" - 2:51Basecamp's PTO policy - 3:11We addressed our PTO policy change in "It Doesn't Have to be Crazy at Work - Part 1" and "Rework Mailbag 1 - Part 2" - 3:25Dan Jimenez on LinkedIn | Twitter - 3:42Chatbooks - 3:45Nate Quigley, CEO of Chatbooks - 5:49Rachel Hofstetter, CMO at Chatbooks - 18:37Dan Jimenez's Twitter thread about changing Chatbooks' PTO policy - 19:36"What is Hygge?" - 23:35John Wick - 24:18Boy Smells - 24:35literary candles from Hearth & Hammer - 24:39We featured Hearth & Hammer on the episode "Bubble Wrap and Prayers" - 24:42A24 x Joya film genre candles - 24:47Bath & Body Works white pumpkin candle - 26:42Shaun gets his togarashi from Third Street Market in Whitefish, Montana - 27:07

More than ever, the tech industry is re-thinking how work gets done and how great ideas come to light when people are no longer linked by their physical location. In this episode, we have frank but hopeful conversations with Deldelp Medina of Black & Brown Founders and Michael Berhane of People Of Color In Tech. They talk about the ongoing work of building intentional communities in tech and modeling what it means to truly trust and support each other.Show Notes"Duty Calls," the famous XKCD comic - 00:18"How Remote Work Could Destroy Silicon Valley" (Marker) — 00:40"'Rich people leave, artists and queerdos return': is San Francisco's tech exodus real or a fantasy?" (The Guardian) - 1:09Deldelp Medina on LinkedIn | Twitter - 2:07Black & Brown Founders website | Twitter | Instagram - 2:10History Channel article on the 1978 murders of San Francisco Mayor George Moscone and Supervisor Harvey Milk - 2:41PBS article on Jim Jones and The Peoples Temple in Guyana - 2:46Ruth Asawa - 5:15BMUG (Berkeley Macintosh Users Group) - 6:34Michael Berhane on LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram - 11:26POCIT (People Of Color In Tech) website | Twitter | Instagram - 11:29POCIT newsletter - 17:39Techish podcast - 17:50Techish co-host Abadesi Osunsade - 17:58The Lean Startup - 20:20Aniyia Williams - 25:51

Better Product is a podcast by Innovatemap, a digital product agency. We are playing their episode featuring Basecamp's marketing designer, Adam Stoddard, who joins them to talk about Basecamp's design philosophy and the thought process behind the look of HEY.com. Show NotesAdam Stoddard on Twitter - 1:04Basecamp co-founder and CTO David Heinemeier Hansson discussed Superhuman in a previous Rework episode - 12:20"Superhuman is Spying on You" by Mike Davidson - 13:23HEY's pixel tracker blocking feature - 13:33

We talk to two very different small businesses about their Babies at Work programs, where new parents can have their infants with them at the office. With COVID sending so many office workers home—and pushing women out of the workforce altogether—acknowledging employees' whole selves is more important than ever. The companies in today's episode talk about how they've adapted their programs for a work-from-home-during-a-pandemic reality.Show NotesLeah Silber on Twitter - 00:05Tilde - 00:58Leah's 2017 essay, "Babies at Work: It's Weird that it's Weird" - 1:06Our episode where Basecamp employees answered questions about working from home with kids - 2:36"865,000 women left the workforce in September" (The 19th) - 2:48“We’re just beginning to understand the extent of Covid-19’s feminist nightmare” (MSNBC) - 3:05W.S. Badger Company - 3:43Badger’s Babies at Work program - 4:09"Parents Got More Time Off. Then the Backlash Started." (NYT) - 18:47Parenting in the Workplace Institute - 24:03

Imagine a corporate privacy policy on a website that was actually comprehensible and written by and for human beings. We talk to companies who have done just this, and what it means to build a business that has respect for privacy baked in from the outset. We also talk to a researcher who's witnessed the difficulty of navigating online privacy settings.Show NotesMark Asquith's website | Twitter | Instagram - 00:21Captivate.fm, part of Rebel Base Media - 00:28Captivate’s privacy policy - 1:25Hana Habib's website - 2:57GDPR -  3:16CCPA - 3:18The study on privacy usability that Hana and her team published (PDF) - 3:46Kaitlin Maud on Twitter | Instagram - 6:13Rain or Shine Recruiting - 6:14Rain or Shine Recruiting’s privacy policy - 11:50Ryan Jones on Twitter - 13:16Flighty - 13:18Flighty’s privacy policy - 17:15“A Hosty Retreat,” our episode about switching podcast hosts over privacy concerns -23:00"Overcast's latest beta update tells listeners which podcasts are tracking them" (The Verge) - 23:06Full Transparency Mode - 23:23Transistor - 29:50

We do a quick check-in with Basecamp CEO Jason Fried about what he's been up to since launching HEY in June. He talks about running the company as the pandemic stretches on, the importance of not making promises, and learning to swim.Show Notes"Greetings from Mojito Island," our check-in episode with DHH - 00:14"Hey, What's Going On?", our episode launching HEY - 00:43HEY for Work - 2:47“Don’t Promise” (Signal v. Noise) - 3:51“Something’s Broken,” our episode on recent downtime - 4:58Coalition for App Fairness - 12:43Learn more about our conflict with Apple in our episode “Two Weeks” - 14:51Vox explainer on Apple, Epic Games, and Fortnite - 15:19 

Basecamp co-founder and CTO David Heinemeier Hansson has been on a not-totally-intended sabbatical from both work and Twitter, and on an entirely intended break from living in the U.S. He checks in from Europe to talk about how he's managing his time off as the boss, and what developments back at Basecamp briefly pulled him back into work. Show Notes“Two Weeks,“ our episode about the launch of HEY - 5:00Basecamp’s sabbatical policy - 5:23HEY for Work - 8:23HEY'S Paper Trail feature - 8:38The School of Life - 9:27It Doesn’t Have to be Crazy At Work by Jason Fried and DHH - 13:45"Take A Break," our episode on sabbaticals - 15:05“Something’s Broken,” our episode about recent outages - 15:58"All Bugs are Not Created Equal" from Getting Real - 21:04

Culture writer Anne Helen Petersen, author of the new book Can’t Even: How Millennials Became the Burnout Generation, comes on the show to talk about how the real estate agents of the reality show Selling Sunset embody toxic ideas around work, passion, and career success. Along the way, Anne and Wailin discuss Christine's outfits, how they can't tell Brett and Jason apart, that $40 million listing, and more! Show NotesAnne Helen Petersen on Twitter - 0:39Anne's newsletter, Culture Study - 0:43The original BuzzFeed News piece, "How Millennials Became the Burnout Generation" - 0:47Anne's book, Can’t Even: How Millennials Became the Burnout Generation - 0:52Selling Sunset - 1:53Wailin mentioned Selling Sunset in our episode "Apps Without Code" - 2:00A BuzzFeed News profile of reality show producer Adam DiVello - 3:23Laguna Beach: The Real Orange County - 3:25The Hills - 3:28Oppenheim Group - 3:42Jason Oppenheim on Instagram | Brett Oppenheim on Instagram - 5:36Mary Fitzgerald on Instagram - 7:04Heather Rae Young on Instagram - 8:51Amanza Smith on Instagram - 10:51"How does the commission work on Selling Sunset?" - 12:55Chrishell Stause on Instagram - 14:40Davina Potratz on Instagram - 16:14"Welcome to Airspace: How Silicon Valley helps spread the same sterile aesthetic across the world" (The Verge)  - 24:02"Hollywood Hills stunner from 'Selling Sunset' sells for $35.5 million" (Los Angeles Times) - 25:22Christine Quinn on Instagram - 26:13A roundup of Christine’s outfits - 27:28Errol Morris films on the Criterion Channel - 32:41

Basecamp recently suffered three outages in a week. Programming lead Jeremy Daer and director of operations Troy Toman come on the show to discuss their approach to customer communication around these kinds of incidents. They talk about public accountability, mental health, and why the human side of incident response is just as critical as the technical details. (Read Jeremy's post and Troy's post on Signal v. Noise.)Show NotesTroy Toman on Twitter - 00:04Basecamp's policy on summer hours - 00:15Jeremy's Signal v. Noise post - 1:35Troy's Signal v. Noise post - 1:38Jeremy Daer on Twitter - 2:58Basecamp's status page showing its uptime percentages - 3:55The Big Integer incident was covered on Rework | in this Signal v. Noise post  - 4:36

Basecamp has closed its physical office after a 10-year run in Chicago's West Loop area. In this episode, we say good-bye to the neighborhood and two of its businesses. J.P. Graziano and un-cooked are small, family-owned restaurants on either side of the longevity spectrum: Jim Graziano is the fourth-generation owner of an Italian food importer-turned-sandwich shop, and Jeremy Jones opened his vegan grab-and-go place with his mother and wife in July. Jim and Jeremy talk about weathering the pandemic as independent restaurant owners.Show NotesOur previous episode about closing the Chicago office - 00:21J.P. Graziano Grocery Company website | Instagram | Twitter - 2:15un-cooked website | Instagram - 7:29Collective Resource Compost - 12:27Strength in the City | fundraising campaign for their mentorship program with SRV - 20:17Taste Real Chicago - 34:03

A group of startup founders, investors, and thinkers are reimagining corporate ownership to take into account all of the people who help build the business—not just executives and investors, but customers, users, and suppliers. Their vision for Exit to Community is outlined in this zine, and two of its authors come on Rework to talk about their vision for a more equitable and inclusive end game for tech startups.Show NotesZebras Unite website | Twitter - 1:18"Exit to Community: A Community Primer" zine - 1:24Mara Zepeda on Twitter | Mara's previous interview on Rework - 1:52Hearken and Switchboard's merger - 1:56Nathan Schneider's website | Nathan on Twitter - 2:11Media Enterprise Design Lab - 2:17"Meetup to the People: How a Zebra could Rise from a Unicorn's Fall" (Medium) - 4:41"Meetup was a darling of the tech industry. But can it survive WeWork?" (NBC News) - 4:45ESOP - 10:49The #WeAreTwitter #Buy Twitter campaign - 20:17Exit to Community peer learning cohort - 21:50

We're back from our August hiatus! To kick things off, we have a conversation with Tara Reed, the CEO of Apps Without Code. She started an online art advising business without knowing how to code, and that early success led to an entire company and educational program that teaches others how to do the same. Tara talks about her career, the tools she uses, and why she hates the term "non-technical founder."Show NotesSelling Sunset on Netflix - 00:42The Hills - 00:54 A BuzzFeed News profile of the reality show producer behind Selling Sunset and The Hills - 1:04Columbo - 1:30IMDb TV - 1:40Wailin discusses her idea for an app to help you choose a streaming provider at the end of this episode - 1:56Tara Reed on Twitter | LinkedIn - 2:36Apps Without Code - 2:41Google Offers - 4:06"Sources: Groupon rejects Google's $5 billion offer" (story co-written by Wailin in the Chicago Tribune, 2010) - 4:10Kollecto - 5:05Strikingly - 6:57Kollecto on Product Hunt - 8:02Kollecto on BetaList - 8:03SurveyGizmo - 9:40500 Startups - 9:52Bubble - 11:25Zapier - 13:13Tara's TEDx Detroit talk - 17:07The apps Tara teaches are: Glide | Mighty Networks | Sharetribe | Thinkific | CloudMatch - 17:48Spark AR - 21:05Apps Without Code's free class | bootcamp - 24:36Jek Porkins - 25:23Wedge Antilles - 25:35

Basecamp co-founder David Heinemeier Hansson sparked a national controversy this week when he posted a series of livid tweets about how his wife received a much lower credit limit than he did on their Apple Cards, despite applying with the same financial information. What began as a rant against opaque algorithms turned into a regulatory investigation and more. In this episode, Dr. Ruha Benjamin of Princeton University and entrepreneur Mara Zepeda, co-founder of the XXcelerate Fund and Zebras Unite, talk about how the tech and financial sectors perpetuate systemic inequalities and how to start repairing the damage—or building something more equitable and inclusive from the ground up.

In the spring of 2019, Danny Caine, the owner of the Raven Book Store in Lawrence, Kansas, overheard a customer saying she could buy a new hardcover online for $15. Danny took to Twitter to explain the economics of independent bookstores and the thread went viral, putting the 32-year-old small business in the national spotlight. Danny comes on Rework to talk about why his activism and outspoken stance against Amazon haven’t just felt right, but been good for business too.

Basecamp co-founder and Chief Technology Officer David Heinemeier Hansson has been ranting on Twitter about monopolistic practices in Big Tech for a while, and he recently got an unexpected opportunity to air his grievances about Google, Apple, and Facebook in front of a congressional subcommittee. In this episode, David debriefs on his experience and Basecamp’s data analyst, Jane Yang, talks about her work helping David prepare for his appearance.

Basecamp probably wouldn't exist today if not for an email that David Heinemeier Hansson sent Jason Fried in 2001. That correspondence was the beginning of a partnership that produced Basecamp, several books, and most recently HEY, the company's new email service. This episode is our love letter to email. Hear from David and Jason, as well as other artists, writers, and founders about the emails that changed their lives.Show NotesHEY - 00:11Our episodes on how HEY was...conceived - 00:15...designed - 00:16...branded - 00:17...launched - 00:18Jason Fried on Twitter | DHH on Twitter - 1:06The 37signals manifesto - 1:35Signal v. Noise - 1:58Saya Hillman on Twitter | Instagram - 4:53Saya's company, Mac & Cheese Productions - 4:57Rick Cosgrove - 8:50Agency EA - 8:54Samsung Developer Conference - 9:12Julie Wernau on Twitter - 11:41Mike McGee on Twitter - 16:26AnitaB.org - 16:32Neal Sáles-Griffin on Twitter - 16:37Mike recounted the story of founding Code Academy (later renamed The Starter League) in a series on Medium. Here's Part 1 - 17:58Nate Otto's website | Instagram - 20:13Goose Island Born + Raised - 21:28The mural Nate painted for one of Warby Parker's Chicago stores - 22:32Liz Fosslien's website | the book she co-authored and illustrated, No Hard Feelings - 23:09Our episode featuring Liz and her co-author, Mollie West Duffy - 23:13

Basecamp released its new email service, HEY, on June 15. It was supposed to be a calm, controlled product launch, but what followed was a period that CEO Jason Fried described as "chaotic, enthralling, (and) horrible." Basecamp got into a public fight with Apple over the HEY iOS app and the customer support team made emergency hires to help with an unprecedented caseload—all during a turbulent time for the world at large. This is the story of those two weeks, in the voices of the people who fixed bugs, answered customer emails, fended off security threats, and pulled off one of the most audacious undertakings in company history.Show NotesHEY - 00:30David Heinemeier Hansson on Twitter - 00:50Jason Fried on Twitter - 1:22Kristin on Twitter - 3:21Javan on Twitter - 3:53Jason's HEY demo on YouTube - 4:21HEY's desktop apps - 5:26Dylan on Twitter - 7:09Zach on Twitter - 8:37David's "burn this house down" tweet - 12:03Protocol's coverage of Apple's rejection - 14:21Macintosh SE - 16:20Conor on Twitter - 18:26Signal v. Noise post written for Juneteenth - 19:34Lexi on Twitter - 20:54Jason Fried's open letter to Apple about IAP - 22:09TechCrunch interview with Phil Schiller - 23:32David's olive branch tweet - 24:51HEY for Work - 28:51Rosa on Twitter - 31:32Jorge on Twitter - 31:58Michael on Twitter - 32:33Jonas on Twitter - 33:00"Hire When It Hurts" and "Welcome Aboard" are our episodes about Basecamp's hiring and onboarding processes - 36:08Jason Fried's letter, "Apple, HEY, and the Path Forward" - 40:11WWDC 2020 - 40:26A League of their Own clip (you zip it, Doris!) - 41:24Jeff on Twitter - 41:43Troy on Twitter - 42:27Chase on Twitter - 45:48"The HEY Way" explains the case against Inbox Zero - 46:25"Office Space," our episode on leaving the Chicago office - 50:12This Week in Startups episode featuring DHH - 51:20Basecamp's jobs page - 52:43

Basecamp co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson held a recent livestream session where they answered questions about HEY, the company's new email service. You can listen to Part 1 or watch the entire livestream on YouTube.Show NotesQ1: What's the timeframe on new features? - 00:38HEY for Work - 00:50Shape Up - 1:13Apple vs. HEY - 4:33It Doesn't Have to Be Crazy At Work - 6:07Q2: How did you get HEY.com? - 7:12"How we acquired HEY.com" (Signal v. Noise) - 7:30Q3: When would you say you've taken on Gmail? - 9:53Q4: What's the environmental impact of HEY? - 14:14Data analyst Jane Yang's SvN post on carbon negativity - 15:45Q5: It's been crazy at work for the last couple weeks. How do you get back to normal? - 15:52Q6: Now that you have two products, are you concerned with context switching in the future? - 17:38Q7: What's the problem with "inbox zero?" - 20:04Q8: How could I possibly move to HEY with 16 years of emails in Gmail? - 24:10HEY's guide for moving from Gmail  - 24:10

Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson held a livestream session where they answered audience questions about Hey, Basecamp's new email service. In Part One, they discuss feature requests, customer support, and plans for hiring. The full Q&A can be viewed on YouTube.Show NotesHEY.com - 00:10Jason Fried on Twitter | DHH on Twitter - 00:24Jason and David's remote work Q&A, Part 1 and Part 2 - 1:03Q1: What's your suggestion for managing the Feed? - 1:29Q2: What are you going to do about signatures? - 5:03Q3: What's a feature you've gotten the most requests for that you won't bring to HEY? - 6:13Q4: Who led UI/UX for HEY, and do you do any user research? - 8:48Q5: What's the intended purpose of the Previously Seen section? - 9:57Q6: Having support with actual humans for an email service seems unique. Are you planning to lean into that with your marketing? - 11:33Q7: What's your vision for enterprise HEY adoption? - 13:49Q8: What about accessibility? - 16:11Q9: What about recruiting? - 16:45Q10: Do you recycle email addresses after someone stops paying? - 20:05Q11: Do you offer monthly subscriptions? - 22:35Q12: Now that you've launched, is there anything you wish you would have done differently? - 26:07@heyhey on Twitter - 31:50

Basecamp's marketing designer, Adam Stoddard, talks about how Hey's visual brand came to be. He discusses influences from Pixar to Charles and Ray Eames to The Raveonettes, and reflects on what it's like to work as a department of one on such an all-encompassing project.Show NotesManos: The Hands of Fate - 00:04Mystery Science Theater 3000 - 00:07Our previous episode "Hey, What's Going On?" with Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson giving an overview of Hey - 00:35Our previous episode "Designing Hey" with Jonas Downey - 00:38Our previous episode "An Email Account Is Born" with Merissa Dawson, on creating a demo account - 00:40Adam Stoddard on Twitter - 00:58Hey.com - 1:08"Screen emails like you screen calls" - 2:59"How it works" - 4:25Toy Story of Terror! - 8:42Procreate app - 9:27Charles and Ray Eames - 16:22A 2003 article about The Raveonettes albums that are written with just three chords and in one key - 21:12

To show off the features of HEY, Basecamp's new email service, we needed a fully featured and realistic demo account. That meant writing dozens of fictional emails—a task that fell to Merissa of Basecamp's customer support team. She comes on Rework to talk about her epistolary opus.Show NotesHEY website | @heyhey on Twitter - 00:22Team OMG - 1:39Notes to self feature - 5:32Clips feature - 5:35Reply Later feature - 5:42Screener feature - 5:51Fitzgerald "Fitz" Grant - 9:13"'A Star Is Born' and the Enduring Appeal of 'I Just Wanted to Take Another Look At You'" (Film School Rejects) - 9:29

Basecamp design lead Jonas Downey was one of the first people to experiment with what would eventually become Hey, Basecamp’s newly launched email service. Jonas comes on Rework to talk about building software for humans, preserving a sense of fun weirdness as a new product evolves, and managing a big launch during a tumultuous time.Show NotesHey - 00:21Our previous episode about Hey, featuring Basecamp co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson - 00:27Apple vs. Hey - 00:40Jonas Downey on Twitter - 00:56Prairienet - 1:36Basecamp’s book on a calm workplace - 19:20

Basecamp has launched Hey, a new email platform with a strong point of view. It's also one of the stupidest things Basecamp has ever attempted. Co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson talk about the philosophy around time, attention, and privacy that forms the backbone of Hey, why Inbox Zero is a tyrannical scam, and what Hey does differently. Show NotesHey.com | the Hey manifesto - 00:14Jason Fried on Twitter - 00:34DHH on Twitter - 00:48Jason and Ryan Singer discussed Hey's origins in Highrise in this product strategy Q&A - 3:20"Highrise is back with Basecamp" (Signal v. Noise) - 3:44Our previous episode about pixel tracking - 20:04Our previous episode talking about Superhuman - 24:01Ian Malcolm's "Your scientists..." clip from Jurassic Park - 30:45

On June 15, Basecamp launches a new email service called Hey. One of its features is that it blocks tracking pixels that report back to the sender when and how you read an email. In this episode, Basecamp's marketing team talks about their difficult search for an email newsletter provider that doesn't track subscribers. And Nabiha Syed, president of the new investigative journalism outlet The Markup, talks about their commitment to data minimization—including zero tracking, not even open rates, on their newsletters—and how that affects their relationship with readers.Show NotesBasecamp’s newsletter - 2:34Hey - 3:05Andy Didorosi on Twitter - 3:29Farnam Street newsletter - 5:47Adam Stoddard on Twitter - 7:23Mailchimp's postcard program | Opt out of receiving postcards - 9:21Sendy.co - 12:34Nabiha Syed's bio | Twitter - 14:04The Markup - 14:06The Markup's privacy policy - 14:28Nabiha’s letter - 16:27Martijn de Kuijper on Twitter | Revue - 18:40

Andy Hunter launched Bookshop.org in January as a platform to help independent bookstores take and fulfill online orders. Shortly afterward, the pandemic forced small businesses to close their physical doors and Bookshop.org found itself trying to manage three years of growth in three months. Andy comes on the show for a deep dive into how his business works, monopoly power in the book industry, and what steps Bookshop is taking to make sure growth and success don't compromise their mission.Show NotesAnnihilation by Jeff VanderMeer - 1:27"Nevermore, Amazon," our episode about The Raven Book Store - 2:06Andy Hunter on Twitter - 2:44Bookshop website | Twitter | Instagram - 2:44Catapult | Counterpoint | Soft Skull Press - 3:28Lit Hub - 3:32Ingram - 6:21Certified B Corporation - 9:25Politics and Prose Bookstore in Washington, D.C. - 10:18Tattered Cover Book Store in Denver, CO - 10:19Powell’s Books in Portland, OR - 10:20IndieBound - 13:30Morgan Entrekin - 15:34HappyFunCorp - 18:36Libro.fm - 19:37Hummingbird Digital Media - 20:16"Baker & Taylor to Drop Wholesale Book Distribution to Retailers" - 24:56BuzzFeed article about GrubHub collecting fees from restaurants even when customers call to place orders - 26:05Jitterbug Perfume by Tom Robbins - 30:23Astounding by Alec Nevala-Lee (Wailin's husband) - 30:45

The pandemic has caused enormous job losses and forced many companies to rethink the nature of work. In this episode, two Stanford students talk about the online resource they built to help fellow students whose summer internships were canceled, and Wildbit CEO Natalie Nagele returns to Rework to discuss the launch of People-First Jobs, a job board that connects seekers with human-centered companies.Show NotesAkshaya Dinesh's website | LinkedIn | Twitter - 1:10Andrew Tan's website | LinkedIn | Twitter - 1:28Verkada - 3:36LinkedIn post announcing the mentorship program - 5:36Remote Students - 8:10People-First Jobs website | Twitter - 10:17Wildbit - 10:21Natalie Nagele on Twitter - 10:30COVID-19 Resources on People-First Jobs - 17:27our recent episode about banning makers of employee surveillance technology - 18:53Kitty Hawk - 20:20

A growing number of companies have turned to employee surveillance software to monitor their newly remote workforce. Basecamp, which has taken a hardline stance against surveillance of all kinds, decided to ban makers of this "tattleware" from integrating with our products. Basecamp CTO David Heinemeier Hansson comes on the show to talk about how a special "Moral Quandaries" team at the company made the decision and how surveillance systems poison the future of remote work.Show NotesAwair air quality monitor - 00:34A presentation by DHH on "Why Air Quality Matters" - 1:15DHH on Twitter - 1:55Basecamp Terms of Service  -2:37Until the End of the Internet policy - 2:46Basecamp API - 3:54basecamp.com/extras - 4:09Article by Drew Harwell of the Washington Post about employee surveillance - 5:10REMOTE: Office Not Required by Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson - 8:53The surveillance illustration from REMOTE - 9:00 GitHub repository for Basecamp policies - 14:00Signal v. Noise post about the new policy - 14:21Apple's "1984" commercial for the Macintosh - 17:10

The government may not consider comic book shops, indoor plant stores, and small boutiques "essential," but these businesses are vital to the unique fabric of their neighborhoods and downtowns. Without foot traffic, they're finding new ways to connect with customers and stay afloat, all while navigating supply chain disruptions and e-commerce logistics. Show NotesAlleyCat Comics website | Facebook | Instagram - 0:55Mighty Con - 1:36"New Comics Delayed Across Industry in Wake of Coronavirus Concerns" (The Hollywood Reporter) - 2:10Our previous episodes about small businesses and COVID covered fitness studios and family-oriented businesses - 2:37Hearth & Hammer General Store website | Facebook | Instagram - 3:29Walden Woods candle - 4:22The Zen Succulent website | Facebook | Instagram  - 8:00Modern Terrarium Studio by Megan George - 9:01Jordan Grace Owens website | collaboration with The Zen Succulent - 10:36Claire Daniel website | picture of her installation at The Zen Succulent - 11:02Mad Cave Studios GoFundMe for comic book shops - 13:25Image Comics announcement on their COVID measures - 13:37Megan George was able to get a Paycheck Protection Program loan, but most of her fellow women of color business owners were shut out - 16:04Sex Criminals - 19:31Moog Theremini - 21:16

We call up our friend and former colleague Esther Lee, who lives with her husband on a 35-foot sailboat named Hope in Jacksonville, Florida. Esther, an "idealist in hiding," talks about how living smaller gives her more space to turn outward and care for others, especially now.Show NotesEsther's bio at the Poetry Foundation - 00:25The Minimalists - 3:30Sailrite sewing machines - 9:30eXXpedition - 13:32eXXpedition's João Pessoa to Barbados leg has been rescheduled to 2022 - 13:45Sacrificial Metal by Esther Lee - 14:22Rudolf Laban - 14:52Wayfinders Now on Instagram | website - 17:55

Endless Zoom meetings, being cut off from friends, the widespread cancellation of summer fun, ricocheting between boredom and anxiety—kids have it pretty rough! And it's no picnic for their parents, either. In this episode, businesses built on offering in-person enrichment for children talk about how they're adapting to reach families and stay resilient during this time.Show NotesNancy Mork's biography - 00:47Fussy Baby Network website | Facebook - 00:50Erikson Institute - 00:53Hatch Art Studio website | Instagram - 3:51Collage Workshop for Kids by Shannon Merenstein - 3:55Omowale Casselle on Twitter - 5:28Digital Adventures website - 5:32Bar Rucci's Art Bar Blog - 13:06Eric Carle Museum of Picture Book Art - 21:17Eric Carle's book is The Very Hungry Caterpillar (not The Hungry Hungry Caterpillar like Wailin says) - 21:21Collage Workshop for Kids on Bookshop.org - 21:29

Basecampers Nathan Anderson and Joan Stewart talk about their love of baking bread and how to get started if you're a newbie. As Joan says, you just have to believe.Show NotesThe New York Times chocolate chip cookie recipe, adapted from Jacques Torres  - 00:43Nathan Anderson on Twitter - 1:00Nathan attended Artisan Bread Camp, taught by Tom Edwards. Read a Washington Post story about the reporter's experience at the same session (Nathan is briefly mentioned in the article and is in one of the photos.) - 2:00Bon Appétit YouTube channel - 2:14Joan Stewart on Twitter - 2:17"Brad and Claire Make Sourdough Bread" - 2:35Claire Saffitz on Instagram - 2:39Bread magazine - 3:00Recipes for using sourdough starter discard - 5:05Edna Mode - 7:25

CEO Jason Fried and Head of Strategy Ryan Singer talk about the Shape Up approach to product development that we use at Basecamp. They discuss organizing work in six-week cycles, how to handle disagreement, and how so much of the process boils down to making trade-offs. You can also watch the full video of this Q&A session.Show NotesGoing Remote Q&A videos on YouTube - 00:57Basecamp's remote work resources - 1:00Jason Fried | Ryan Singer on Twitter - 1:09Hey, Basecamp's forthcoming email product - 1:23Shape Up: Stop Running in Circles and Ship Work that Matters - 2:17Q1: How do you go about planning something from scratch? What are the different milestones in the product-planning process? - 4:59An explainer of six-week cycles - 6:10An explainer of finding the epicenter from Getting Real, Basecamp's earlier book on product development - 11:50Q2: How do you decide how far to break down projects? Can you be so granular that you reach a point of diminishing returns? - 13:31Shape Up chapter on scopes - 16:10Q3: How do you decide which pitches to execute, and how often do you disagree? - 19:32Spikeball - 27:55Q4: How is potential value creation assessed in the betting process? - 27:58Q5: How do you alert someone about work that needs to be done by them? - 34:45Q6: How do you do a 6-week cycle for a whole new project? - 37:10Inverted pyramid - 38:36Q7: How do you pitch the Shape Up process to someone who’s not technical? - 39:28Q8: How do you train team members to learn the work process? - 42:28Q9: How do conversations with customers fit into the shaping and strategy? - 46:22Q10: What do you do about people who ignore the breadboarding and fat marker techniques? - 50:33Q11: Is there a utility in using software? - 54:49Q12: When approaching features like two-factor authentication or encryption, how do you balance what’s most secure with what’s most convenient for users? - 55:22Q12: How did you decide to work on Hey? What’s the bet and how did you structure the team separate from Basecamp? - 1:03:10Highrise - 1:03:26"Highrise is back with Basecamp" (Signal v. Noise ) - 1:07:22

Several of Basecamp's working parents talk about (not) getting things done with small children around, navigating responsibilities and feelings with partners, structuring the day, primal screaming, and more. You can also watch the full video replay of this Q&A session.Show NotesGoing Remote series on YouTube - 00:10Basecamp's Remote Resources page - 00:39Question 1: If you’re home with kids under three, how do you work while they’re craving your attention? - 4:00Going Remote episode about customer support - 6:25Art for Kids Hub on YouTube - 15:31Lunch Doodles with children's book author Mo Willems - 15:51LeVar Burton does #LeVarBurtonReadsLive on his Twitter feed - 15:55Question 2: How do you navigate tension between partners when one person bears more of the childcare responsibilities? - 19:22Question 3: What morning habits do you have to keep yourself aligned? - 23:33Basecamp on Twitter - 27:23

David Sax is the author of the new book The Soul of an Entrepreneur: Work and Life Beyond the Startup Myth. He comes on the show to debunk the Silicon Valley narrative that only a rarefied subset of people can succeed as founders, and shares examples from his book of business owners whose complex relationship with freedom, risk, and success offer a fuller picture of entrepreneurship.Read David's recent op-ed in the New York Times, "The Coronavirus Is Showing Us Which Entrepreneurs Matter."Show NotesDavid Sax's website | Twitter - 1:16The Soul of an Entrepreneur: Work and Life Beyond the Startup Myth - 1:21"At 21, Kylie Jenner Becomes The Youngest Self-Made Billionaire Ever" (Forbes) - 7:05A 2017 Daily Beast profile of Kris Jenner's mother - 7:21ESOPs - 17:16Article by Daniela Papi-Thornton in the Stanford Social Innovation Review about "heropreneurship" - 20:54Save the Deli by David Sax - 23:40The Revenge of Analog by David Sax - 23:52Maxim's May/June 2018 issue featuring Heidi Klum - 24:40The Soul of an Entrepreneur on Bookshop.org - 26:15

Going Remote is a series of bonus episodes where different Basecampers answer questions about how they do their work remotely. In this episode, Merissa Dawson and Chase Clemons answer questions about providing customer support, including how they talk to angry customers and how they onboard new team members. The full version of their Q&A, including a visual walkthrough of the support team's Basecamp account, can be found on YouTube.Show NotesDesign lead Jonas Downey's Going Remote episode - 00:18Basecamp's customer support team - 00:26Going Remote playlist on YouTube | Full version of Merissa and Chase's session  - 00:39Question 1: How do you talk to customers who are really angry or not nice? - 00:54Chase talks more about his experience managing a deli in this Rework episode - 2:41Question 2: Who hops on the calls with customers, someone from Support or from the Product team? - 4:26Question 3: It's tough right now. What's something you could tell a support specialist from around the world? - 6:18Question 4: Any tips or tricks for helping onboard new people in customer support, especially when remote? - 8:54More detail about the Support team's onboarding process is in this Rework episode - 9:42Basecamp on Twitter - 13:32

Fitness studios, like many other businesses, had to scramble to change over from in-person to virtual operations almost overnight. In this episode, three business owners in the fitness and wellness industry share their stories of how they've pivoted and how they're continuing to look after their communities' well-being during a difficult time.Note: After we wrapped editing on this episode, Haji Healing Salon launched two support groups that meet weekly with a clinical psychologist. If you're interested in signing up, click on "Healing Services" on Haji's website.Show NotesArts + Public Life residency program at the University of Chicago - 3:14Haji Healing Salon website | Instagram - 3:19"Haji Healing Salon Aims to be 'Oasis and Sanctuary' On Bustling 79th Street in Chatham" (Block Club Chicago) - 4:04Philly Dance Fitness website | Livestream - 7:22Take It Off Broadway - 8:43StreamingVideoProvider - 11:10Punchpass website - 14:21Punchpass webinar on getting classes online - 17:04Hot Yoga Burlington - 18:30"Zoom Rushes to Improve Privacy for Consumers Flooding Its Service" (New York Times) - 23:06

We're starting a new series of bonus episodes called Going Remote. We'll have different Basecampers answer questions about how they do their work remotely. In this first episode, design lead Jonas Downey talks about how he and his team collaborate with each other, give feedback, and communicate with their developer colleagues. These episodes are adapted from an ongoing series of livestreamed Q&As, which you can find in their entirety on Basecamp's YouTube channel.Show NotesVideo of Jonas' Q&A | YouTube playlist of all Q&As - 00:33Jonas Downey on Twitter - 00:39Question #1: I’m planning on doing design thinking sessions for groups. How should I channel the team aspect in a virtual call with 20 to 30 people? - 4:25Question #2: What tools do you use to replace whiteboarding and Post-It sessions? - 6:33Reflector app - 7:31Question #3: It seems like most communication you do runs through Basecamp. How do you communicate the intricacies of designs to engineers, and what’s your workflow? - 8:51Basecamp co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson's live walkthrough of the company's Basecamp account - 8:54Question #4: Do you use version control tools like Abstract? - 12:46Question #5: In the meeting-averse culture of Basecamp, how does design work get reviewed and approved? - 16:23Question #6: Do you use any design tools, or do you design in the browser? - 17:44Question #7: Is it required at Basecamp for a designer to know how to code? - 18:48Question #8: How many designers do you have at Basecamp? - 20:21Question #9: I'm interested in the dynamic between designers and product managers. Do you do project management yourself using tools like Jira or Trello? - 21:07Question #10: How do you balance between designer and manager roles? - 23:00Basecamp on Twitter - 25:35

We're back from hiatus! In this episode, we sit down with Quaker theologian and small business owner Wess Daniels, the author of the book Resisting Empire: The Book of Revelation as Resistance. He talks about the value of silence; reshaping systems of money and power; and building community during a time of struggle. Show NotesWess Daniels on Twitter | His blog, Gathering In Light - 1:19Resisting Empire: The Book of Revelation as Resistance (Barclay Press) - 1:27Friends Center at Guilford College - 2:11Fireweed Coffee Co - 2:29Wess's blog post on holding a family meeting - 4:10Poor People's Campaign - 15:48

We place a long-distance phone call to Antarctica to chat with Kathrin Mallot, an astrophysicist who works at the IceCube Neutrino Observatory in the South Pole. In this episode, Kathrin talks about preparing for a work assignment in a super remote part of the world; practicing self-care during the punishing Antarctic winter; getting along with coworkers that you also live with in close quarters; frozen nose hairs, snacks, Internet access, and more! This episode was originally run in February 2019.Show NotesThe IceCube website - 00:46What is a neutrino? (Scientific American) - 1:13SNOLAB in Canada is an example of a neutrino observatory located in an old mine - 1:58Emsisoft - 2:48Skynet satellite (and the other Skynet) - 4:38Mt. Erebus in Antarctica is the southernmost active volcano on the planet - 14:00The Thing (the 1982 version by John Carpenter) - 19:28The IceCube website has an entire section about living at the South Pole - 26:53The defibrillator scene in The Thing (Warning: VERY SCARY! And gross!) - 27:39The blood test scene in The Thing (Warning: ALSO VERY SCARY AND GROSS) - 27:50

This is the second part of a two-hour live Q&A on remote work that Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson held last week. Part 2 covers questions about interruptions, mental health, hardware and software tools, and building culture as a remote company. You can find Part 1 on our feed in your podcast app or on our website. If you'd like to watch the Q&A session in its entirety, you can do that on Periscope. You can also check out Basecamp's Guide to Internal Communication.Show NotesQuestion 1: How do we get aligned with coworkers without interrupting them through chat/phone calls and while respecting their time? - 4:03 Pings (direct messages) in Basecamp - 6:34Hey is Basecamp's upcoming email product - 7:23"Interruption Is Not Collaboration," our episode where we discuss Office Hours - 8:45It Doesn’t Have to be Crazy At Work - 10:48Question 2: How would you encourage leaders to prepare (or how has Basecamp prepared) for an eventuality where large numbers of workers will be sick for extended periods of time? Adding more buffers to time estimates? - 14:15Question 3: How can we best nudge our bosses in the right direction with this stuff? - 18:39The Guardian published an article that mentions DHH's efforts to shame companies whose employees aren't allowed to work from home - 18:57 David's tweet asking for stories of companies - 19:08Denver Post article about Charter Communications' remote work policy - 19:41REMOTE: Office Not Required - 21:23Question 4: Where do you put ideas that are mostly about code? Do you have discussions in GitHub for that? - 25:06Tuple - 26:58Question 5: What can you do for taking care of the emotional well-being of the work community that’s going to be remote for weeks in the middle of such unprecedented crises? - 27:32You can send reports of companies to [email protected] - 30:36Question 6: How do you each spend your typical days at Basecamp? How do you balance team collaboration and meetings with more solo, “deep” work? - 34:33"Wait, other people can take your time?" (Signal v. Noise) - 41:36Question 7: How do you set up a culture and understand cultural fit when building a fully remote organization? - 41:54"Introducing the 5x12" (Signal v. Noise) - 43:48"The books I read in 2019" (Signal v. Noise) - 45:10The Basecamp Employee Handbook - 46:51Question 8: How do you help first-time WFH employees to ensure we are getting the most out of them? - 48:38Question 9: How do you manage boredom, anxiety, and isolation while working remote alone? - 51:25Question 10: What technologies (hardware included) are you excited about (outside of Basecamp) to help support remote? - 55:45A photo gallery of Basecamp employees' work-from-home setups -

Nom Wah Tea Parlor is New York Chinatown’s oldest dim sum restaurant. For decades, it served Cantonese dumplings and rolls in the traditional way, from trolleys pushed around the restaurant. When Wilson Tang took over Nom Wah in 2011, he switched from trolleys to menus with pictures and started serving dim sum through dinner. He also opened new locations that broadened Nom Wah’s repertoire beyond dim sum. These were big changes for a restaurant that opened in 1920, but Wilson saw them as measures to secure Nom Wah’s future for its next century in business. This episode first aired on The Distance in May 2017. Nom Wah has reduced operations due to COVID-19, but you can support the restaurant by purchasing merchandise: https://nomwah.com/shop/.

Earlier this week, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson held a live Q&A about remote work. We're splitting the session into two episodes. Part 1 covers questions about video calls, brainstorming, setting priorities, and good management during a time of stressful transition. If you'd like to watch the Q&A session in its entirety, you can do that on Periscope. You can also check out Basecamp's Guide to Internal Communication.Show NotesJason and David's book, REMOTE: Office Not Required - 00:55The full session on Periscope - 1:00Question 1: In a workplace with a mix of local and remote workers, what are some good strategies for making the remote workers feel more connected and not left out of office events? - 8:12Basecamp's Automatic Check-ins feature - 9:25Question 2: How do you qualify employees and gain trust if you don’t meet in person? - 14:14Question 3: How do you handle the transition in a company that hasn't been very remote until now and can't make a quick switch to writing more? - 18:30A Guide to Managing Remote Teams by Claire Lew, CEO of Know Your Team - 19:40Question 4: How do you handle video meetings with more than 20 people? - 23:44"Is group chat making you sweat?" (Signal v. Noise) - 30:00Question 5: How do you prioritize tasks? What's your productivity system or non-system? - 30:14Shape Up, Basecamp's book about product development - 30:50Question 6: Do you believe any developer/designer/product manager can work remotely? - 36:09Question 7: How would you host a brainstorming meeting? - 38:17Question 8: How do you properly handle large layoffs of more than 10 people? - 40:51"Stanley's Abruptly Closes After 52 Years of Selling Affordable Produce, Longtime Workers Caught Off Guard" (Block Club Chicago) - 44:30Question 9: What are the key things I can do as a manager of a small team to make remote working a great experience within my team, even if our company culture is still catching up after being forced to go full remote? - 46:02

Basecamp is a remote company, so we're less disrupted by the current pandemic than many other businesses, but we're still taking steps to keep folks safe. Jason Fried talks about canceling the company's April meetup and closing the Chicago office. Rework will be taking a few weeks off so we can get set up with recording studios at home. In the meantime, if you're working from home for the first time, we'd love to hear your stories! Please get in touch at [email protected] (you can write an email or send us a voice memo) or leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850.Show NotesTearing the heart out of Saturday night - 00:06Joe Bob Briggs' series, The Last Drive-In - 0:14Joe Bob Briggs: How Rednecks Saved Hollywood - 00:27Our recent episode about leaving the Chicago office - 1:10RailsConf - 5:59The Distance - 8:57Wailin learned about fomites from this 2013 New Yorker article and now she won't stop talking about them - 10:46

We at Basecamp love to preach the virtues of the 8-hour work day, but where did it come from? (Hint: Not from Henry Ford!) Labor historian Emily Twarog explains the origins of the 8-hour work day and why it was so short-lived in the U.S.Show Notes"This CEO thinks it's crazy to work more than 40 hours a week" (CNN) - 00:34"Extreme Capitalism with Jason Calacanis," the episode that credits Henry Ford with the 8-hour work day - 1:04"Did the 8-hour day and the 40-hour week come from Henry Ford, or labor unions?" (Politifact) - 1:06Emily Twarog | Twitter - 1:10"The Mill Girls of Lowell" (National Park Service) - 1:54The Lowell Offering - 3:04"Fire of 1871" (Encyclopedia of Chicago) - 3:51A history of McCormick's reaper works factory - 4:59An overview of the Haymarket Riot - 5:24A history of the Bread and Roses Strike of 1912 - 5:54The U.S. Department of Labor's history of the Fair Labor Standards Act - 11:02The National Labor Relations Board's FAQs on the National Labor Relations Act - 11:06Fight for $15 - 29:17"She was Instacart's biggest cheerleader. Now she's leading a worker revolt" (Washington Post) - 29:29Emily Twarog's book, Politics of the Pantry: Housewives, Food, and Consumer Protest in Twentieth-Century America - 31:25Beaten Down, Worked Up: The Past, Present, and Future of American Labor by Steven Greenhouse - 31:36On the Clock: What Low-Wage Work Did to Me and How It Drives America Insane by Emily Guendelsberger - 31:45

Jarred Lustgarten left a Wall Street career to start a rug-cleaning business with $600 in borrowed money and a stack of flyers. A decade later, J.L. Carpet & Upholstery is profitable and Jarred has a very visible reminder on his hands of his commitment to his vocation.Show NotesIrin Carmon's website | Twitter - 00:40J.L. Carpet & Upholstery - 1:23Irin's tweet about Jarred's tattoo | Jarred's tattoo - 1:50New York Daily News columnist Harry Siegel's tweet in response - 2:18New York Rug Life - 2:49Lisa Wagner's website, Rug Chick - 15:52Park Slope Parents - 17:39Notorious RBG: The Life and Times of Ruth Bader Ginsburg by Irin Carmon and Shana Knizhnik - 26:32

Basecamp the app is over 15 years old, which means Basecamp the company is responsible for safeguarding more than a decade's worth of customer data—including 370 terabytes of data stored in non-active accounts. In this episode, Basecamp data analyst Jane Yang talks about a big, ongoing project at the company to clean up those inactive accounts and give former customers what we all deserve: the right to be forgotten on the Internet. Two Basecamp alums also return to share the history of the company's data incineration protocol.Show NotesJamis Buck on Twitter - 2:05Jason Fried's tribute to Jamis - 2:22Eileen Uchitelle's website | Twitter - 3:15the tweet by @FiloSottile about data being uranium, not gold - 7:04our episode about the credential stuffing attack - 13:04blog post explaining how Basecamp notified customers about the credential stuffing - 13:32Basecamp's cancellation policy - 21:46Basecamp Personal - 21:53Tom Anderson from MySpace is on Instagram now and his profile photo should look familiar - 23:48Mazes for Programmers by Jamis Buck - 26:24Basil & Fabian by Jamis Buck - 26:25

Basecamp co-founder and CTO David Heinemeier Hansson and entrepreneur and angel investor Jason Calacanis debate the gig economy, democratic socialism, and whether the American dream is dead. The conversation in this episode is adapted from a longer interview that can be found in full at This Week in Startups.