Mike Kerzhner is a software engineer, an accomplished Yosemite climber, and an impressive all-rounder. We talked about growing up climbing and competing in Russia, moving to the States and climbing at the Red River Gorge, his path to trad and big wall climbing, free climbing El Cap, writing, poetry, speaking Russian, and discipline born out of necessity.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/mike-kerzhner  Nuggets:  2:05 – Savory oats  3:33  – “Eat, then sleep, then climb.”  4:05 – Big wall food, water weight, and radishes  6:13 – PerMuir, corners, and send cookies  9:04 – Excerpt from Mike’s writeup on the PreMuir, and writing  10:59 – Mike’s internal conflict with social media and sharing about experiences  12:20 – Patron Question: How does Mike contrast computer-heavy career choices with a lack of digital presence?  13:45 – Early climbing and competing in Russia  20:37 – Moving to the states, the EBS competition scene, reckless biking, and getting beat by his younger brother  24:26 – Transitioning from a gym kid to a Red/New River Gorge kid  28:36 – Traveling out West from the Red  29:44 – Why Mike switched from La Sportiva to Scarpa, and getting his shoe-game dialed  33:16 – Going to Stanford, taking a year off of climbing (to drink beer), trad climbing, and ripping a pitch on ‘Romantic Warrior’  39:39 – Climbing ‘Astroman’ with Chicken Pox, getting benighted, and descending in broken flip flops  41:07 – Jailhouse, balancing climbing with drinking, and getting psyched in Bishop  43:10 – Mike’s transition back to trad climbing  46:47 – Mike’s climbing philosophy  48:26 – ‘The Rostrum’, offwidths, and the ‘Freerider’  54:08 – Two-day ascents, ‘Golden Gate’, and making it happen with work constraints  56:14 – Try-hard mode, and screaming  59:41 – Stemming corners, and why Mike struggle with the “medium” 5.12 and 5.13- climbing on big walls  1:03:07 – PreMuir excerpt #2, and what Mike learned from Sam about skill and analysis  1:08:28 – The professional mindset, and learning more by getting on harder climbs  1:09:30 – Mike’s pet peeve, and aspirations  1:10:30 – Chaos and anxiety  1:12:42 – Discipline vs. necessity  1:17:27 – How Mike feels at age 33 (and a half)  1:18:41 – Mike’s experience with the Lattice Training Assessment, 12c finger strength, and climbing V13  1:23:37 – What climbing is for Mike, and why he sucks at training  1:24:43 – Patron Question: The Red vs. the New?  1:25:26 – Summersville dam  1:27:21 – The New  1:27:52 – Patron Question: Favorite sector at the Red? The New?  1:28:55 – Patron Question: Climbing heroes?  1:29:59 – Poems  1:31:14 – Lunch (in Russian), baking bread, and speaking Russian  1:33:52 – The man with no arms, growing up in a starved Russia, and a lot to be grateful for  1:35:27 – The Salathe Headwall, Just Do It, and hanging up the boots  1:38:44 – Plans with Nathan Hadley, route development, learning from others, and surviving ‘Vanishing Point’  1:41:42 – PreMuir excerpt #3

Natasha Barnes is a former professional climber, a national powerlifting champion, and a licensed chiropractor who specializes in strength training and rehabilitation for rock climbers. We talked about gaining weight to climb harder, calorie balance, common misconceptions about strength training, on and off seasons, tissue capacity, and rehabbing finger injuries.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/natasha-barnes  Nuggets:  2:22 – Yosemite bouldering, ground-up ascents, and favorite boulder problems  5:04 – Natasha’s current climbing  6:28 – Gunning for state records in Power Lifting  9:11 – Competing, and the mindset of practicing at meets  11:55 – Natasha’s career as a pro climber, her  catastrophic finger injury, and struggling to find information on how to rehab  16:44 – Rehabbing the finger in Lost Rocks  18:47 – Shoulder injuries, trying conventional rehab, and turning to strength training  21:25 – Bench press and overhead press for shoulder strength and health  22:46 – Chiropractic school, and using her chiropractic license to do physiotherapy and rehab with clients  23:54 – Strength training for climbing, “being strong is fun”, and Natasha’s path to Power Lifting  27:16 – Gaining weight to climb harder?  31:31 – Disordered eating, and how learning about calorie balance and tracking macros helped Natasha relax about her weight, diet, and food  32:59 – Performance seasons and off-seasons   37:31 – Gaining weight in the off-season, calorie balance, and a case for tracking calories and macros  43:10 – Natasha’s thoughts on protein requirements for athletes  46:18 – Protein, carb, and fat recommendations for boulderers, sport climbers, and trad/alpine climbers   49:03 – Natasha’s favorite Apps for tracking  50:21 – Trends Natasha sees with her clients (almost all are under-eating protein)  51:25 – My (Steven’s) experience with low-carb diets, why Natasha likes the “if it fits your macros” approach, and caveats  59:06 – Clarification about total vs. net carbs  59:38 – Carb timing  1:03:54 – Avoiding excessive alcohol for recovery, and why Natasha doesn’t like to label foods as “bad” or “good”  1:05:30 – What Natasha thinks her ideal climbing weight would be now  1:08:14 – Off-season recommendations  1:10:03 – Addressing misconceptions about strength training, minimum effective dose, and examples of how Natasha programs strength training for climbers  1:12:45 – Neurological strength gains, and strength as a skill  1:14:29 – Why Natasha advocates for compound lifts, and targeting specific weaknesses through climbing practice/training  1:19:01 – The difference between a human body vs a car  1:24:56 – Increasing tissue capacity through training  1:28:00 – Patron Question: What can we do to avoid recurring finger injuries?  1:33:43 – Discomfort during rehab, pushers vs. avoiders, and finding the sweet spot  1:36:48 – My experience with a finger injury, how much time to take off, and lower entry points  1:40:32 – Surgery as a trauma, and better outcomes through movement  1:41:42 – Natasha’s recommended hangboard protocol for training and/or rehab, auto-regulated training, and why you don’t need to train to failure  1:45:28 – “Reps in reserve”, “Effort level”, and gaining autonomy in our training  1:48:41 – Patron Question: Does Natasha have any climbing heroes/role models?  1:51:20 – Gratitude for health  1:52:35 – How to connect with Natasha  1:53:27 – Natasha’s new ‘Foundational Strength for Climbing’ program  1:55:01 – The Power Mullet  

Maya Madere is a 21-year-old comp kid from Austin, TX. We talked about attending school at Stanford and studying computer science, the endurance training program that helped her transition from bouldering to sport climbing, gunning for the 2024 Olympics, competition strategies, outdoor goals, intuitive training and eating, power screams, and windsurfing.  Crafted Energy:  https://www.craftedenergy.com/  Promo Code - CLIMBHARD30 - for 30% off your order!  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/maya-madere  Nuggets:  1:40 – Windsurfing  8:44 – Maya’s transition from comp boulderer to outdoor sport climber  12:06 – How Maya feels about her current climbing  13:29 – Off-season climbing, coronavirus, and taking a break  16:42 – Outdoor climbing vs. training, “quantity over quality”, self-coaching, and doing too much vs. too little. 21:15 – Campusing, endurance training with Solomon Barth, and up-down-ups  24:28 – Up-down-up details  30:00 – Practicing climbing more quickly  32:56 – How Maya mixes endurance with maintaining bouldering strength and power  35:19 – Psicobloc  38:26 – Neverending Story, and why Maya would choose competition climbing over outdoor climbing (if she had to pick one)  41:08 – Where Maya sees her climbing going moving forward  42:14 – Paying her way around the world through competitions, and why it wasn’t sustainable  45:12 – The Boulderfield Master Series, compromise between school and competition rock climbing, and how Maya sees herself in relation to other top competitors  47:37 – Computer Science  50:27 – 2024 Olympics  53:36 – Maya’s most memorable comp, expectations, and why she prefers to be the underdog  57:15 – Making competing routine  59:50 – Practice comps and mock comps  1:02:21 – Breathing exercises and competing and altitude  1:04:45 – Cardio  1:06:54 – Speed climbing, and lead vs. sport  1:08:44 – Diet and weight  1:14:17 – Lifting, systematic vs. intuitive training, and mental energy  1:19:55 – Breakfast, vegetables, and intuitive eating  1:22:42 – Crafted Energy bars  1:24:56 – Dessert  1:26:05 – Maya’s go-to Evolv shoes  1:28:31 – Identifying as an athlete  1:30:18 – Maya’s outdoor and competition goals  1:32:33 – Leisure time, Waldorf school, and crafts  1:34:43 – Gratitude, privilege, and wanting to share  1:38:08 – Instagram, BLM, and using her platform to share information  1:41:33 – Power screams  

Connor Herson is the kid who free climbed ‘The Nose’ at fifteen years old. What most people don’t know is that he is also an incredible sport climber. We talked about his sport climbing goal at age fourteen, his path to free climbing ‘The Nose’, big wall tactics, gear recommendations, headpointing, training power during COVID, recent sends, and future goals on El Cap.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/conner-herson  Nuggets:  2:00 – Breakfast, caffeine, and sleep  3:26 – Connor’s goal at age 14  8:23 – Jailhouse, kneebar pads, the evolution of climbing, and 5.14d  12:53 – Trying ‘Triple Direct’  14:27 – Outgrowing beta on the ‘Changing Corners’ pitch  15:45 – Breakdown of the ‘Triple Direct’ linkup  17:24 – Three-day ascents  19:51 – Warming up for 5.14 straight out of bed and kneebaring the ‘Changing Corners’  22:08 – The path to freeing ‘The Nose’  30:34 – Making up PE class  33:25 – Two nudges from Tommy  38:09 – “If it’s a free route on El Cap it’s a goal.”, building a base of free routes, and thoughts on ‘The Dawn Wall’  40:21 – ‘Broken Arrow’, moderates to build a base, and headpointing tactics  47:55 – Bad landings, safety margins, and sewing up the first 25’ of ‘Broken Arrow’  49:37 – Offset cams, and cams vs. nuts  51:23 – ‘The Green Mile’  54:12 – Power training during shelter-in-place, ‘Throwin’ the Houlihan’, and ‘Surf Safari’  59:48 – Patron Question: Why are so few young climbers pulled towards trad and big walls?  1:05:06 – Patron Question: Connor’s go-to climbing shoes?  1:06:53 – Patron Question: Strategies for dealing with discomfort on big walls? (water, harness, shoes)  1:12:24 – Patron Question: Continue being an “all-rounder” vs. becoming more specialized?  1:14:16 – Jailhouse for training, and “if it’s training it can be contrived.”  1:15:52 – Gratitude  1:17:31 – Connor’s recent two-week trip, and sharing the driving  1:18:53 – Connor’s upcoming trip and goals  

Tyson Schoene has been the head coach of the Vertical World Climbing Team in Seattle, WA for nearly 20 years, and has shaped some of the best climbers in the world including Drew Ruana, Sean Bailey, and Quinn Mason. We talked about Tyson’s path to coaching, how he and his team build world-class athletes, the value of competition, climbing team as a family, and drills all of us can practice.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/tyson-schoene   Nuggets:   2:37 – Viento, the resurgence of old forgotten crags, and surfing trips   6:22 – Coaching during COVID, missing the kids, and home walls  9:52 – Embracing downtime, training for adversity, and moving forward with new ideas  12:48 – Feeling privileged and prepared, feeling bored, and struggles with purposelessness and the social climate without a support group during the pandemic  16:56 – Being born in Seattle, Tyson’s parents as climbers, early climbing, and the pull of the lycra  21:20 – Other sports and passions, early competing, early coaching, seeing himself in the kids  26:46 – Climbing with the kids and learning from the kids  30:24 – Why Tyson feels like he never realized his full potential, and why he wouldn’t trade his impact on the kids for being a 5.15 climber  33:51 – The benefits of competition  43:18 – Being competitive vs. being a good competitor  46:11 – Working with Drew to get better at reachy moves  53:36 – Why shorter kids tend to become better climbers  54:30 – How Tyson knew he could push Drew to the edge, the athlete/coach relationship as a two-way street, and adapting to your athletes  58:38 – Hiring coaches from climbing team, traits that make good coaches, and giving back to the team  1:06:27 – Repetition, traversing, patience, and the primary things adults are missing as new climbers  1:14:06 – Efficiency, what makes the best climbers look the best, and why easy movement (i.e. ARCing) is relevant for someone trying to break into 5.14  1:19:44 – Circuits for power endurance, drawing from track and field, learning through experience, and spray walls  1:26:19 – Programming circuits  1:28:14 – Easy circuits vs. easy traversing and ARC training, balancing endurance training w/ power, and why Tyson expects training to change in the next ten years  1:33:44 – More on ARC training, Tyson’s (amazing) adult client, and why Tyson generally prefers working with kids vs. adults  1:36:05 – Tyson’s thoughts on why climbers should train both for sport climbing and bouldering to be the best possible athlete  1:39:27 – Patron Question: Power endurance exercises to break into 5.12?  1:42:29 – Other factors to consider when it seems like power endurance is our limiting factor  1:43:37 – Climbing with three fingers (IMR open) to conserve energy  1:48:30 – Pinkies  1:49:04 – Patron Question: Favorite App for spray wall?  1:50:49 – Taping circuits on the spray wall for members and for the kids  1:52:50 – Patron Question: What was it like competing before competition climbing was popular?  1:55:26 – Shirts, normalizing greatness, and the Vertical World family  2:03:41 – Gratitude   2:06:05 – Drills: Heals only  2:10:50 – Drills: Fives  2:17:27 – Thousands of drills, leadership skills, and emotional detachment  2:20:35 – Proud of the kids  

Blake Cason is a mindfulness and work/life balance coach, and the founder of Pivot Wellness. We talked about bringing awareness to our relationship with climbing, practicing radical honesty, ways of strengthening the mindfulness muscle, cycling priorities, and ways that both Blake and I have struggled to find balance between work and climbing. Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/blake-cason  Nuggets:  2:01 – The first time Blake jugged a line, choss in the Canadian Rockies, and supporting Mike on ‘The Shining Uncut’8:19 – Intentionally showing up to support another person in climbing9:58 – The relationship sandbox, and play and responsibility13:53 – Common issues/areas that Blake works on with her clients and climbers16:34 – Beauty in doing things that don’t have a point, and being out of alignment with what motivates us vs. what we’re actually doing20:24 – “Shoulds”, guideposts, and self-imposed suffering23:33 – Radical honesty, “is that working”, and slowing down28:12 – Finding mindfulness through climbing, and her climbing relationship as a barometer32:11 – Tuning into your body and your breath to return to the present moment34:14 – Focusing on the breath, and code-switching35:52 – Training the mindfulness muscle 39:43 – The practical use of mindfulness, and how to bring mindfulness to reflecting on the past or envisioning the future42:50 – Mindfulness applied to climbing performance, “paying attention”, and finding language that resonates44:57 – Savoring, loosening the grip, tapping into a growth mindset, and getting the whole brain firing 53:04 –  Self-limiting beliefs, “Is being attached to that belief working?”, and the research behind the importance of self-compassion58:28 – The brain-body connection, “abort mission”, and punting1:01:18 – ‘Joe Six Pack’, recognizing a need, and choosing to walk away (for now)1:05:31 – How Blake would work with a client who struggles with fear1:12:59 – My (Steven’s) struggle with balancing the podcast with my own climbing and expectations1:16:49 – Cycling priorities, and how Blake cycles her focus between her own climbing and her business, and values vs. priorities1:23:56 – Using inspiration as a guide for priorities1:25:57 – Zooming out1:32:13 – Gratitude1:32:55 – The area of mindfulness that Blake is working on currently1:37:31 – Where to connect with Blake and how you can work with her1:40:28 – Take a breath1:42:49 – My free life coaching session, and send us questions!

Audrey Sniezek is a software engineer for Microsoft and a former professional climber. We talked about her beginnings in both computer science and climbing, becoming a morning person, her 4 a.m. warmup routine, starting a climbing gym near the Red River Gorge, coaching in China, self-talk for confidence, and her most recent 5.14a.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:   http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/audrey-sniezek  Nuggets:  1:58 – Peanut butter sandwiches, being a finisher of things, the lunch crux, and dry salads  5:48 – Timex computers, studying computer science, and turning down Microsoft  10:22 – Temporary job with Microsoft, REI, and “is there any climbing in Washington?”  12:43 – Bigger and scarier, improving by climbing a lot, lead climbing and pushing personal boundaries  14:21 – Flexibility with work, squeezing in climbing, and “I’m only as transparent as I need to be.”  16:03 – Alpine style sport climbing, and becoming a morning person  17:55 – Audrey’s morning warmup routine  20:58 – Making the most of morning sessions, swapping days, and finding a COVID pandemic buddy  23:45 – Waking up extra early to send ‘Lost Horizons’, and commuting to and from climbing  25:41 – The corporate boomerang, living in a van to climb full time, preferring to stay places longer, and Audrey’s current trifecta  28:58 – Fitness training, healthcare, why Audrey came back to a corporate job after freelancing, and building trust to achieve a better work/life balance  34:11 – A shift in company culture due to COVID  37:15 – A home in Vegas, and starting a gym in near the  Red River Gorge  40:34 – Starting a computer science program at the Beattyville high school, and how the Beattyville climbing gym came to be  45:22 – Audrey’s vision for the gym, old-school setting, and watching the kids climb  47:28 – William’s stroke  49:37 – How Audrey uses the Beattyville gym and how she balances climbing and training in general  51:50 – Living in China and accidentally becoming a climbing coach  56:53 – Splitting up training and coaching, the language barrier, a teary-eyed farewell, and Audrey’s training legacy  1:00:20 – Audrey’s training session breakdown, Tabata style warmup, technique drills, going back to fundamentals, and training power on easy climbs  1:03:56 – Why Audrey doesn’t do much Moonboarding or hangboarding  1:05:39 – Recent finger injury, slowly getting back into the swing, and missing the “try hard”  1:08:02 – What factors help Audrey “bring it”  1:08:40 – ‘The Sickness’  1:13:48 – ‘Black Plague’, linkups, milking climbs for all they’re worth, and new projects  1:16:39 – Four-year gap between 5.14s, competing in the world cups, and a hamstring injury  1:18:51 – How Audrey sent ‘The Sickness’ without any specific prep  1:20:50 – Trying a 5.14 at Mt. Potosi  1:23:39 – Goals and dreams  1:26:05 – ‘Dr. Evil’, funky beta, and a surprise send  1:31:03 –  “The only thing stopping me is me.”  1:33:32 – 5.14 (or 5.15) in her 50s, “am I a machine”, and trying things sooner rather than later  1:34:32 – How’s Audrey training changed in her 40s, her own fitness and training resources  1:36:57 – What Audrey wishes she had known in her 20’s, confidence, and “I belong here”  1:39:45 – Self-talk, the piece of paper, and “I’m capable.”  1:41:43 – Low confidence, building yourself up, and reminding yourself that you create your results  1:42:41 – Gratitude, heartbreak, and community  1:45:06 – The victory cone  

Ben Herrington is a professional route setter and likely Washington’s most prolific boulderer. We talked about why Ben performs best as a “weekend warrior”, his three go-to training sessions, mistakes he sees other boulderers making, climbing vs. skateboarding, his history with drug abuse and addiction, the path to sobriety, some of his most meaningful FAs, and V15 potential in Washington.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/ben-herrington  Nuggets:  1:56 – Feeling aimless without work, missing purpose, and the subtle curse of being a full-time climber  4:09 – Skatingboarding vs. climbing: mastering, achieving, and style  7:37 – Ben’s three climbing categories (strength, technique, and try hard) and which one holds him back  9:31 – Practicing “try hard” with a three-try limit  10:31 – Skateboard culture, proving your right to be there, and “success days” vs. “training days”  12:30 – Why Ben feels like he performs best as a weekend warrior  13:38 – Ben’s three go-to indoor sessions  14:52 – The Sharma philosophy: flash or limit  15:42 – Ben’s “Strength Day”  17:24 – Why Ben prefers climbing other people’s hard boulders, wanting to be good at every style, the ego beatdown of changing styles, and The Red vs. Smith  21:21 – Why hard climbing isn’t type-1 fun, and why the variety in climbing appealed to Ben so much after skating  22:40 – Ben’s strength/power bouldering session length, gym climbing vs. outdoor climbing in terms of weight lifting, and gym climbing because it’s fun  25:54 – “Medium Day”, “Endurance Day”, and the benefits of down climbing for fitness  27:44 – Transfering sport climbing fitness back to bouldering, and climbing ‘The Reckoning’  29:11 – St. George bouldering vs. sport climbing, and expanding your horizons to have more 5-star lines to do  31:09 – Ben’s interest in trad/mixed climbing, and the routes that pull at him most  33:03 – The fun vs. suffering spectrum, and “everybody knows what it takes, they just have to be willing to do it.”  34:51 – What motivated Ben when he was younger vs. now  37:04 – Ben’s oppositional strength training routine,  training front levers once every two weeks, and the evolution of Ben’s core training  39:48 – How Ben can tell if a climber has good core strength, and the importance of core strength for hard climbing  40:38 – Training Front Levers, plank variations, and the feeling of being wrecked  42:37 – Lack of training consistency due to COVID, the approach of summer, and missing the climbing gym  44:55 – Ben’s weekly climbing schedule, and always taking Friday off  45:26 – 14 years sober, addiction to pain pills, and how Ben got started in climbing  49:19 – Obsessive-compulsive behavior, losing friends and his dad to drugs, moving to WA to get sober, and early bouldering in Leavenworth  55:27 – The obsessed bug  57:04 – Exploring for new routes, and bolting ‘Imagine’  1:03:41 – Cleaning and climbing ‘Imagine’ during quarantine  1:06:31 – John Lennon’s ‘Imagine’, the setting, the rock, and everything you’d want in a route  1:07:53 – The story behind ‘Inception’ (Ben’s favorite FA)  1:11:00 – Ben’s early progression in climbing, the “spurge and plateau”, and filling out the repertoire  1:12:54 – Some of the best hard boulders in WA, Newhalem bouldering, and endangered moss  1:15:58 – V15 potential in WA  1:17:45 – Ben’s ideal boulder condition for NW granite, giving credit to “the cracking” of a sequence or boulder problem, and the challenge of grading FAs  1:19:33 – What holds back climbers in the gym  1:21:38 – What holds back climbers when projecting outdoors  1:23:26 – How Ben decides whether to keep trying a climb, optimism vs. pessimism, and ‘Singularity’  1:26:52 – Gratitude  1:27:30 – Missing the gym  1:28:25 – Ben’s plans for the summer, and chasing conditions  1:32:24 – Ben’s Instagram, his recent Squamish video (that you should all watch—see show notes), and not knowing where to post climbing content  1:34:46 – Ben’s latest skate trick project, and influencing kids at the skate park  

Nathan Hadley is a professional route setter and an all-around rock climber. We talked about completing the Canadian Alpine Trilogy, the benefits of training using bouldering circuits, how to practice onsighting skills in the climbing gym, establishing the first 5.14 at Index, WA, and the importance of following the psych.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/nathan-hadley  Nuggets:  2:41 – The Canadian Alpine Trilogy  7:23 – Prep for the Trilogy, bouldering base from route setting, and Nathan’s one-month approach for getting back in sport climbing shape  8:53 – Fontainblaue-style circuit training  12:36 – Why Nathan thinks circuits are more effective than route laps and 4x4s  15:08 – Example two-day per week PE program  18:21 – Low-end endurance  20:52 – Structure in the things that matter  22:15 – Competing at sport climbing nationals, onsighting in Turkey, and sending ‘Scarface’  29:38 – Nathan’s “relaxed approach”  33:39 – Switching modes, listening to your body, and following psyche  35:37 – Onsighting practice in the gym  40:57 – Warming up for hard onsights and entering the right mental space  44:40 – Intentions and guidelines, and why Nathan’s trip to Turkey was so successful  46:15 – FA of ‘En Passant’ (aka Ten Percent Direct)  54:27 – Route setting as prep for ‘En Passant’  55:39 – Outdoor bouldering and getting stronger by climbing bouldery routes and Index  57:05 – Leaving his mark at Index  1:00:00 – Chess and The Fun Triangle  1:02:01 – Route setting with volumes, volumes as tools, and creating a diversity of climbing styles in the gym  1:05:06 – Forerunning as training  1:07:31 – Climbing less, and learning from the experts who know bodies  1:09:26 – Grateful to be working  1:10:24 – ‘Vanishing Point’, looking for a new route on Dolomite Tower, and dreaming of a WA Trilogy  1:22:00 – Nathan’s website  

Paige Claassen is a professional rock climber and the founder of the Southern Africa Education Fund. We talked about pre-send rituals, breathing techniques, how she changed her diet to improve recovery, recent training, how she structures bouldering and outdoor sessions, learning from each attempt, and favorite crag snacks.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/paige-claassen  Nuggets:  1:55 – “Coming to you live from my closet!”  3:04 – Frangog  4:44 – Learning to try hard, and reminding yourself that “I’ve sent in the past when things weren’t perfect”  8:26 – ‘Just Do It’, deep audible breaths, and clicking into the moment  11:45 – Pre-send rituals, working with a biokineticist, and activation points  14:28 – Paige’s thoughts on audible breathing  17:36 – Breathing beta, composing yourself, and “Everyone loves climbing on jugs”  19:03 – ‘Odin’s Eye’, eating more protein, training differently, and becoming a different climber  24:21 – Gym bouldering for power 27:15 – How Paige structures a bouldering session, and focusing on quality over quantity  28:59 – Training seasonally, and how Paige structures outdoor climbing sessions  30:33 – Day on day off  31:34 – Finding what works for you, and owning it  32:06 – A mental shift to not performing in the gym  33:24 – “I just love projecting.”  34:31 – Believing in the process, tricep pushups, and recent training during quarantine  39:42 – Losing ten pounds by eating more fat, protein amounts, and collagen for fingers and skin  44:20 – Southern Africa Education Fund (SAEF), building school buildings, and a new playground  49:24 – Mentorship, open and learning, and living in an exciting time  51:43 – Gratitude for family  53:14 – Current favorite climbing snack, and “I’m not afraid of carbs.”  56:01 – Fish tacos and buffalo cauliflower  57:35 – ‘Shadowboxing’, 5.15 as a goal, and climbing more 5.14+ routes in North America  59:58 – ‘Dreamcatcher’  1:00:50 – Learning from each attempt, frustrating to fun, and “if we’re not having fun there’s no point  1:02:35 – “Treat yourself as you would treat others.”  1:03:20 – Completing the Yurdin family (minus Kasbah)  

Jasna Hodžić is part writer, part scientific researcher, and part badass rock climber. We talked about sending her first 5.14a, ‘To Bolt Or Not To Be’ at Smith Rock, about practicing her anti-style to climb a route called ‘Voodoo’ 5.14b, and about her struggles with a misdiagnosed finger injury, compartment syndrome, and RED-S.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/jasna-hodzic  Nuggets:  2:18 – Woodstoves, cooking while driving, and leaving an ice cube tray in the oven  5:46 – Hyper + cute boys, Mr. Buff Man, and getting into rock climbing  8:35 – Studying abroad in Spain in 2013, climbing at world-class areas, and finding an infectious climbing scene   11:38 – ‘To Bolt Or Not To Be’, the archetype of hard rock climbing, pure inspiration, and commuting from Seattle to try the route  18:35 – Advantages of top-roping, skin pain, and progression on To Bolt  22:23 – “Smedges”, going through six pairs of Muira VSs, punting at the 10th bolt, and bailing on her own birthday party  27:31 – Taping for warmups, warming up for To Bolt, and the Mike Doyle story  31:48 – Climbing ‘Peace’ first redpoint try, onsighting the last two bolts, and glacier polish   40:35 – Tick marks, visualizing, and focusing on the crux  43:07 – ‘Voodoo’ (Jasna’s first 5.14b), Equinox, and the jump start  48:34 – Jasna’s fake finger injury  59:28 – Taking a break from the gym and feeling stronger after a winter of rock climbing  1:03:13 – Mixing projects and quick ticks, trying hard routes, and anti-style  1:08:17 – Vertical climbing isn’t type 1 fun, steep climbing during quarantine, and climbing 14a in her anti-style  1:10:10 – Scuba diving on ‘Papa Legba’  1:14 14 – The foot story (compartment syndrome)  1:30:59 – Dealing with injuries and gratitude for health and health care  1:37:38 – Jasna’s experience with RED-S (formerly know as Female Athlete Triad)  1:45:43 – How Jasna has changed her diet post-RED-S, cottage cheese, getting DEXA scans, and other takeaways  1:53:53 – Eating more frequently, calories, calve muscles, and body fat  1:57:13 – Favorite books  2:01:37 – Photojournalism, Jasna’s R&I article, blogging, writing to process the gunk in your head, and the importance of publishing  2:07:11 – Dreams of making a living as a writer, and her PhD  2:10:20 – Gratitude for health and partnerships  2:13:23 – Climbing goals, being meticulous with climbing, and falling into projects  2:18:37 – Not on the Insta-Twitter  

Justin Brown is the founder of Rhino Skin Solutions, a company that provides high-performance skincare products for rock climbers. We talked about best practices for skincare, tips for dialing skin for different rock types, how to grow a business while keeping things simple, and the connection between greatness and insanity.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/justin-brown  Nuggets:  2:23 – The COVID pivot, hand sanitizer, and the restaurant hustle  5:48 – Whole Foods, the Rhino growth trajectory, and growing to make a better product  9:50 – How to fix product that has separated   11:30 – Hand Sanitizer for greasy hands and dirty climbers  13:52 – Best practices for healing dry skin  17:24 – Dry/Performance plus Spit for dry and pliable skin, removing sweating as a factor, and different skin for different rock types  19:32 – How to use Rhino Spit   20:39 – Justin’s skincare routine leading up to a climbing trip  24:02 – Combining using Performance and Repair, and best practice for antiperspirant use   26:28 – Training your brain to sweat less and taking a break from using products once a month  30:35 – Tegaderm and Hypafix for splits and gobies  34:34 – Better climbing tapes  36:48 – Filing old shoe rubber, shoe cleaning products, and OXY Pads  41:48 – The early days of Rhino, and why Justin   46:21 – A simple business model and growing organically  49:08 – Growing vs. profitability, putting systems in place, not wanting cogs, and the label machine  54:51 – Work-life balance, getting an employee, and freeing up time  58:40 – Getting hurt climbing, starting MMA, getting in the best shape of his life, and the heart monitor story  1:03:58 – Training for MMA and carryover to rock climbing  1:06:21 – Justin’s standing in jiu-jitsu and converting belt rankings to the Yosemite Decimal System  1:08:05 – Mixing MMA and climbing, a pesky wrist injury, and climbing because it’s fun  1:10:56 – Greatness and insanity, and different limiters on crazy  1:12:27 – Steven’s thoughts on limiters, how limiters shift, and waking up early to hangboard  1:14:38 – Exceeding climbing goals, the gratification of improving at something new, and the myth of discipline  1:17:06 – How each route at Smith leads to the next, and progressing through the 5.13s  1:21:12 – Justin’s approach to climbing ‘Badman’ (his first 5.14), and dealing with shoulder impingement  1:25:25 – Carryover from jiu-jitsu to rock climbing  1:28:49 – Carryover from rock climbing to jiu-jitsu, projecting sequences, and foot matches  1:32:18 – Climbing 5.14 again, goal routes, and climbing the hardest route from the year you were born  1:35:33 – Justin’s (secret) Shuteye Ridge trip  1:37:29 – Gratitude for family and his sister’s illness  1:40:48 – My experience with van life during COVID-19, being in stasis, why Justin craves going out to eat, and restaurant energy  1:46:14 – Rye sourdough mango pancakes  1:47:02 – High-4 (Justin’s new company for pet care)  1:50:20 – New Rhino products (coming soon)  1:52:23 – Where to connect with Rhino for skincare questions  1:53:10 – One last story  

Ethan Pringle is one of the best all-around rock climbers in the world. We talked about practice vs. training, lessons learned from 50 days projecting ‘The Nest’, taking care of his dad and his experience with chronic grief, the gift of heartbreak, discovering a new depth of love, projecting highballs, and the coolest rock climbing move he has ever done.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/ethan-pringle  Nuggets:  2:22 – The Pistol Squat challenge  5:58 – Practice vs training, and feeling plateaued in strength  9:18 – Improving strategy for projecting, getting really good at making climbs easier, and admiring climbers who try 100% every time they pull on the wall  12:24 – Wanting to flow vs. trying as hard as possible, learning to climb efficiently, and the game of sport climbing  16:14 – 50 days on ‘The Nest’  24:38 – Psychological vs. physical limitations on The Nest, holding on to belief, and the decision to send  27:23 – Ethan’s main takeaway from ‘The Nest’: “Crappy days are totally fine and totally normal.”  29:15 – Trying different beta, lightbulb moments, ‘El Bon Combat’, and “master beta”  33:59 – ‘Kintsugi’, the ninja-toe-catch, and the coolest rock climbing move Ethan has ever done  38:47 – His dad’s stroke, finding him on the floor, life’s pivotal moments, caregiving, and Michael Peña  49:39 – Lessons from grief, heartbreak as a gift, and a new depth of love  59:30 – Compassion, acceptance, growth  1:01:05 – Self-compassion, the ‘La Reina Mora’ story, and the debilitating combo of emotional baggage and bad beta  1:07:47 – Overextending and creating boundaries  1:13:15 – Knowing yourself and communicating boundaries  1:16:30 – Why the word “depression” doesn’t really resonate with Ethan, his own brand of internal darkness, and becoming more at peace with himself  1:21:14 – Seeing a grief counselor and why Ethan is a proponent of therapy  1:23:29 – 10-minute sits, mindfulness meditation, and Ethan’s experience and takeaways from a 10-day vipassana course  1:35:35 – Doing the second ascent of Jason Kehl’s ‘Evilution’, and why highball bouldering is such an amazing type of climbing  1:39:47 – Ethan’s highball projects in Yosemite  1:42:18 – Ethan’s approach to highballs and the effect of pulling the rope   1:44:27 – The “Brown Point”  1:46:26 – Plans for Yosemite in the Fall  1:47:12 – Dreams of finding all-natural 5.14+ or 5.15 projects  1:51:50 – Ethan’s dream van  1:54:55 – Gratitude  1:56:09 – Hugs  1:56:37 – Ethan’s Instagram and plans for a new website  1:57:32 – The gift of vulnerability, plans for a round 2, and reversing interview roles  

Chad Andrews is the maker of the Clipping Chains blog—a resource to help climbers navigate personal finance and move towards financial independence. We talked about reaching retirement at age 35, simple steps to reduce your cost of living, why financial strength equals freedom, the joy of building a craft, and pursuing your best life.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/chad-andrews  Nuggets:  3:03 – ‘Snickers’ the stealthy food thief  7:34 – Chad’s early career in Houston, staring climbing, moving to the front range, and becoming interested in the financial independence movement  14:59 – The F.I.R.E. movement (Financially Independence Retire Early) and Chad’s path to financial independence  16:09 – Why Chad would never call himself retired, and why he thinks work is a fundamental aspect of happiness  17:10 – The Clipping Chains blog and sharing personal finance information with climbers  18:51 – Overview of the financial independence concept (maximize savings rate, and invest in a passive index fund)  24:31 – Chad and his wife’s income, teachers, and why the financial independence movement isn’t just for those with a high income   26:39 – Tracking spending using an app or spreadsheet  31:19 – The big three: housing, transportation, and food  33:51 – Chad’s passion for food, cutting back out dining out, rediscovering cooking, and learning new skills  36:32 – Facing discomfort, Chuck and Maggie Odette, the “year of austerity”, and paying less for the same experience  38:44 – Why financial strength is a sliding scale, and the freedom of having a little extra money saved  43:52 – Chad’s climbing trip to Ceuse during the “year of austerity”  45:39 – Pareto principle (80/20), and why Chad doesn’t feel like he and his wife had to sacrifice much to reach their financial goals  48:56 – How having a few months of living expenses saved up can give you the freedom to tinker and try new things  50:53 – The first two steps that everyone should take toward financial strength  56:23 – Scheduling your day, habits, and systems  1:01:52 – Tracking net worth as a measure of progress  1:05:13 – Housing as the #1 expense, and tips for reducing housing cost  1:09:41 – Tips for renters and why buying a house isn’t necessarily as good an investment as people think  1:12:45 – Takeaways from interviews with top climbers, and embracing a non-normal life  1:19:39 – Hard work, happiness, and honing a craft  1:26:09 – Chad’s current climbing, focusing on movement and bouldering, and the benefits of filming yourself  1:32:35 – Where Chad is most excited to climb after COVID, focusing on climbs he can do in 10 tries, and the role of mega projects  1:36:05 – Retiring just before COVID, and my (Steven’s) plans for Rifle  1:38:12 – Roasted peppers, Lemoncello, and comfort food  1:44:26 – Favorite books  1:47:36 – Gratitude  1:48:25 – Clipping chains website, Instagram, Twitter  

This is part 2 of my conversation with Mikey Schaefer. We talked about climbing as a finite resource, footwear for big walls, rope tricks, Mikey’s “fix and follow” system for team-free ascents, climbing smarter, what Mikey is grateful for, and his refreshing perspective about COVID. You can find part 1 of our conversation in episode 18.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/mikey-schaefer-part-2  Nuggets:  1:31 – Climbing ‘Moonlight Buttress’ in his 20s, 30s, and 40s  4:09 – Moonlight getting easier, wearing out climbs, being mindful of the impact we have on climbs and climbing areas, and Mikey’s advocate “rant”  10:06 – How Mikey thinks about footwear, and being smarter (as well as stronger)  16:27 – Tommy Caldwell as a one-show-size climber, and how Mikey chose his shoes for ‘ Moonlight Buttress’  18:45 – Compression socks, warmup up in socks and TC Pros, climbing in approach shoes, and developing footwork by climbing in shittier shoes  22:53 – Tinkering with systems, “It’s easier to climb smarter than it is to get stronger”, weighing gear with a gram scale, and measuring the force of different top rope systems  27:18 – “Friends don’t let friends belay”, Mikey’s “fix and follow” system, and leading in blocks  34:56 – Grateful for financial security, Mikey’s grandfather held captive, and a refreshing perspective on COVID  41:01 – Why Mikey feels content with where he’s at, plans to continue moving the spiral upward, and continuing to be a jack of all trades  

Mikey Schaefer is a photographer, filmmaker, and an all-around climber whose accomplishments range from dangerous first ascents in the mountains to 5.13+ big walls, 5.14 sport climbs, and V10 boulders. We talked about some of Mikey’s most meaningful first ascents, experiences on Liberty Bell, balancing risk and reward, becoming a jack of all trades, and building his pyramid.   Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/mikey-schaefer-part-1  Nuggets:  3:03 – The ‘Eggsadilla’  6:56 – Mikey’s first major FA on the South Face of Mt. Bradley (‘Little Big Man’)  14:32 – The Dancing Dihedrals feature, and the A3 rating  18:10 – Getting old/soft (joke), how Mikey’s risk profile has shifted, and balancing risk and reward  21:44 – Putting up first ascents, “Who’s experience am I doing this for?”, and Mikey’s perspective shift in putting up new routes   25:33 – Learning by making mistakes, and when to push your limits  30:22 – Preserving the experience of routes  32:53 – Liberty Bell and the arc of Mikey’s climbing progression, rope soloing, father time, and putting up the hardest big wall route in WA  45:55 – Finding the gem (‘Dark Side of Liberty’)  49:54 – Being called a sandbagger and Mikey’s thoughts on grading routes  56:31 – Mikey’s tendency to not think he’s as strong as he is, “good” vs “great” climbers, and a shifted paradigm  59:00 – Being a jack of all trades, balancing multiple disciplines, how different disciplines help each other in a spiral, and climbing Cerro Torre  1:04:17 – The ‘Why’ behind Mikey being a jack of all trades in climbing, his influences and personality, and being the swiss army knife on productions  1:08:10 – Why Mikey doesn’t set long-term goals or make long-term plans, letting opportunities arise, and not knowing what’s next with COVID  1:13:18 – Varied approaches between different climbers, “There’s no recipe for success”, finding clues, and making the most of the cards you’re dealt  1:17:35 – Adding the training and bouldering bricks to the pyramid  1:19:03 – How Mikey trained to climb his first 5.14, repeaters using the Beastmaker App, weighted pull-ups, and muscle-ups  1:33:20 – Using video recordings as a tool, and front levers with Alex Honnold  1:37:13 – Being a shorter male climber (5’3”), different strength requirements for men and women, and an interesting comparison between Mikey and SJ  1:44:20 – The main benefits of bouldering and training the “try hard muscle”  

Drew Ruana is a 20-year-old boulderer, sport climber, and competition climber who is quickly becoming one of the best rock climbers in the world. We talked about climbing ‘Sleepwalker’ (his first V16), the significance of skin and conditions and tactics for optimizing them, his current training philosophy, transitioning from competitions to outdoor climbing, and his career and climbing goals.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/drew-ruana  Nuggets:  3:14 – Rest day during quarantine, Game of Thrones   4:57 – Bishop in February, ‘Goldfish Trombone’, and the worst skin injury Drew has ever had  6:55 – The Milwaukee fan, a game of 0.1 percents, and the importance of skin and conditions  10:13 – Night sessions and Drew’s light setup  11:02 – Drew’s chalk bucket of skin products  12:32 – Dry Spray, Climb Skin, and accepting bad skin  13:28 – Drew’s V15 rampage, a day in the life while projecting ‘Sleepwalker’, Drew’s best two days of climbing, and the sending drug  18:01 – Why Drew doesn’t warm up on other boulders  19:05 – Drew’s warmup routine  20:38 – How Drew thinks about working on multiple projects at a time vs focusing on one  21:58 – ‘Three Days In Joe’s’, mixing in volume, and doing V14 in a few minutes  23:39 – Griffin Whiteside, and Mike & Ikes as rocket fuel  25:36 – Drew’s training philosophy and workout  29:32 – Drew’s favorite rings exercises  31:17 – A day and B day, and “all the strength comes from recovery”  33:00 – The importance of nutrition and sleep, Drew’s protein intake (1-1.2 grams per lb bodyweight), and PhysiVantage protein powder  35:21 – Why Drew spent two years focusing more on weight lifting than climbing  38:18 – Climbing at Smith Rock at age 3, climbing ‘Dancer’, and Drew’s first set of quick draws  40:26 – Why Drew never felt external sources of pressure, competing as a kid, and the frustration of being too short for competition boulders  45:16 – Sticking it to the man, coach Tyson, and learning to climb tall  48:33 – Shifting motivation from comps to outdoor climbing  50:37 – Olympic qualifiers, world championships, frustrating comp results, and the validation of a successful outdoor season  1:02:39 – FA of ‘Pegasus’  1:06:10 – FA of ‘Assassin’  1:12:04 – Climbing at Smith and how that made Drew the climber he is today  1:13:26 – 5.15 projects at Smith  1:15:02 – “We’ll see where climbing takes me.”  1:16:15 – Psyche for bouldering, School of Mines, and dreams of alpine blocks  1:18:12 – Drew’s career plans, and wanting to give more back to the world than just climbing  1:20:32 – Why Drew thinks Salt Lake City is the best scene for hard training in the country  1:22:55 – A lot to be grateful for  1:25:26 – Instagram and Facebook, getting logged out of Messenger, and “You can always try harder.”  1:28:29 – BONUS: Drew’s campusing routine  

Tara Kerzhner is an award-winning photographer, cinematographer, and accomplished rock climber. We talked about being creative while stuck at home, the importance of shooting what you love, balancing her work with art and climbing, becoming a more powerful climber, and telling stories through film.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/tara-kerzhner  Nuggets:  2:06 – Using the podcast to hangout out with friends  2:51 – Cactuses  5:50 – Working from home, “the snack loop”, and Tara’s favorite tea  11:33 – Working in restaurants, learning to manage money, not having mentors, and a sheltered upbringing  15:21 – Learning to believe in herself, “garbage collecting”, and increasing your percentage of good photos  17:37 – “Shoot what you love”, being grounded for 6 months, and taking risks  19:29 – Some of Tara’s favorite photos and what made them memorable  23:51 – Learning about storytelling and film making, and why Tara feels like she hasn’t made her best film yet  25:16 – Tara’s new film camera  26:50 – Tara’s photo tick list, shooting “new” angles, and Jim Thornburg  29:59 – Balancing working with art and climbing, sending ‘Vesper’, and going in and out of shape  34:24 – Why Tara is considering doing more strength training for photo/video work  38:22 – “Un-Smithing” herself, seeking out more powerful climbs, and ‘Don’t Call Me Dude’  44:26 – Why grades “don’t really make sense”  47:06 – Tara’s goal routes at Ceuse, trying ‘Sprayathon’, and the irrelevance of grades  50:38 – ‘To Bolt’, and why climbing it would be such a meaningful route for Tara  53:33 – Alex Honnold’s free solo big wall tick list  55:02 – Multipitch sport climbing, wanting to go climb ‘Logical Progression’, and why multi-pitch trad climbing isn’t always type 1 or 2 fun  57:55 – Why free climbing El Cap isn’t a current goal  58:53 – Cats  1:00:08 – House cat —> ocelot  1:01:39 – What Tara feels especially grateful for  1:04:25 – Sladies 2, the ethics of what we choose to do right now (during COVID), and why Tara isn’t planning any trips right now  1:06:40 – Why Tara is excited to explore more editorial/journalistic photo and video work in the future, shooting in Fiji, and photos vs videos  1:08:50 – Tara’s website, Instagram, and why she prefers email when responding to people  1:10:32 – Climbing on the home wall, why 45 degrees might be the hardest angle in rock climbing, and “it’s all about body positions”  1:12:13 – Wrap up, why Tara doesn’t like some of her earliest films, and “it’s good to be up on the wall”  

Katie Lambert is an elite rock climber in just about every discipline of the sport. She is also a contributing author for Climbing Magazine, owns a business, and has a master’s in nutrition. We talked about the film Pretty Strong, her training and how she balances the many disciplines of climbing, and nutrition recommendations for climbers.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/katie-lambert  Nuggets:  2:15 – Pretty Strong  4:19 – ‘Father Time’ breakdown, blood blister, dropping the tape, and deciding to go into support mode  9:45 – “A big part of climbing is failing.”  10:49 – What Katie learned from climbing with Nina, and vice versa   13:16 – Deadlifting to fix low back pain, the Berto challenge, pulling 235 lbs, and how deadlifting has helped her climbing  18:11 – Iron Dragons  19:17 – Pinch training and hangboarding  24:36 – Sunday Funday  25:08 – Training power for a trip to the Red, and bouldering circuits (inside & outside)  26:57 – Campusing exercises, the importance of focusing on speed when training power, and campusing endurance  28:24 – The routes Katie was training for at the time  29:26 – Being a multi-discipline athlete, and how Katie thinks about structuring her climbing/training year  32:42 – Why Katie prefers the free-in-a-day style of big wall climbing  34:25 – Linking up ’The Rostrum’ and ‘Astroman’, Katie’s “little suffer bunny”, and feeling fit from The Hulk  36:39 – Goals for future linkups and quick ascents and plans to go back to ‘Father Time’  39:52 – Katie’s go-to climbing shoes  40:58 – “I know who I am and I know what I’m doing.”  44:10 – Why Katie recommends that newer climbers (less than 5 years) just climb a lot in a variety of styles instead of focusing on training  46:24 – How learning offwidth techniques has helped Katie with tufa climbing  48:07 – The one kind of training Katie wishes she had started doing earlier and would recommend for climbers  48:54 – Katie’s three go-to strength exercises, and fingerboarding for healthy fingers  50:59 – Past ankle and finger injuries, why Katie avoids climbing in the cold, and being clammy and cold  53:54 – Katie’s favorite Rhino Skin Solutions products and how she uses them  54:51 – Rehab ideas for elbow tendonitis and finger injuries, and why just taking time off isn’t necessarily the best rehab strategy  1:00:18 – What Katie wishes she knew when she was age 20  1:01:47 – Same question for age 30, noticing a trend of tendon injuries climbing in the cold, my own experience with a finger injury  1:03:38 – How dehydration plays a role in finger injuries, electrolytes, and Katie’s favorite hydration cocktail for cold days  1:04:19 – Masters in nutrition, Bishop Cowork, writing, and nutrition coaching  1:05:30 – Two key nutrition tips/takeaways for climbers, recommended intake of water per day (1/2 fluid ounce per lb of bodyweight minimum), and climbers as sugar burners  1:07:51 – How Katie eats in a day  1:10:10 – Eating red meat, why Katie is into local and sustainable food and why she feels so lucky being in Bishop, Polyphase Farm, and the challenges of feeding a growing population  1:13:52 – Some of the side effects of a crappy diet, why diet is important (even if you look fit), and some of Katie’s recommendations  1:17:29 – Katie’s recommendations for those that want to stick to a vegetarian or vegan diet  1:18:12 – Nuts, and why Katie recommends eating them raw/soaked, and why she recommends avoiding peanuts and processed nuts and nut butters  1:20:00 – Katie’s recommendation for daily protein intake (1 gram per lb of bodyweight—it’s ok to start with 75% of that)  1:22:54 – Writing, why Katie is stopping her column at Climbing Magazine, and working on a cookbook  1:24:24 – Founding and running Sacred Rok  1:26:50 – Being sick for 24 days, gratitude for health, and “it’s a man thing” (being pathetic when we get sick)  1:28:26 – Katie’s upcoming trip to the Red  1:29:09 – Melt Down  1:31:22 – Being a lifer, why Katie loves Bishop, and moving to France if Trump wins the election  1:33:20 – V11 as a goal  1:33:57 – “We’re really lucky to climb.”  

Jonathan Siegrist is a professional rock climber, and one of the most prolific sport climbers in the world. We talked about the evolution of his training, how he trained to climb 5.15b, current training methods, how he mixes in climbing with training, tactics for quick redpointing, a new direction for his climbing, and The Fins project.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/jonathan-siegrist  Nuggets:  3:31 – Breakfast, how Jonathan eats on a climbing day, favorite bars, and eating the local cuisine when traveling  8:38 – Training for the Red by climbing on campus rungs on the treadwall (while wearing socks)  13:21 – Jonathan’s training evolution, and sending ‘Jumbo Love’  18:18 – Current training methodology (broad strokes), working with Steve Bechtel, and adding more rest between sets and training days  21:21 – Carving out more time for the same number of training sessions  22:35 – Jonathan’s three favorite strength exercises (not related to finger strength)  26:46 – More about weighted pull-ups and how Jonathan generally programs and advances his training  29:19 – Combining heavy sets with plyometrics, and taking 10-15 minute rest between sets  30:56 – Circuit style hangboarding vs. straight sets  32:48 – 7:13 repeaters, why Jonathan now prefers them over 7:3, trying new things, and thinking about trying max hangs in the future  37:19 – How Jonathan integrates outdoor climbing with training and the benefits of combining the two  42:00 – Sending ‘One Hundred Proof’, and shifting focus to prioritize redpoint days  44:09 – Why Jonathan doesn’t do any maintenance training, and the importance of trying hard  47:36 – Jonathan’s propensity toward endurance, and the one thing he would do different if he could go back in time  49:47 – How Jonathan thinks about strength and power training vs. bouldering  50:36 – Sending ’Trice’ back in 2009, learning to climb at flagstaff, and testing well at finger strength but not knowing how to move fast  55:09 – “The magic of climbing”, how Jonathan stacks up against other 9b climbers and prioritizing sending  57:58 – Climbing with Adam Ondra and inspiration to focus more on flash and onsight climbing  1:02:43 – Jonathan’s approach to second-go redpointing, his affinity for remembering beta, and removing hesitation  1:04:49 – Jonathan’s spray wall drill to practice memorizing sequences, and how he uses visualization  1:08:42 – How Jonathan thinks about deciding between second-go redpointing vs. flash or onsight  1:11:36 – Leveling up, hopes to return to old crags to finish old projects, and Jonathan’s desire to (eventually) move away from sport climbing  1:18:14 – Multipitch sport climbing, and “the single coolest thing” Jonathan hopes to do with his climbing  1:19:33 – Trying the Dawn Wall with Tommy, and why Yosemite big wall climbing isn’t at the top of his list  1:21:34 – The Fins project  1:28:51 – Experimenting with techniques to combat dry skin and dry conditions, wet chalk, and Rhino Spit  1:31:52 – “Do you think that thing will be 15b?”, the polarizing crux of Algorithm, and Jonathan’s best try  1:34:08 – Establishing 5.15b in America and what makes that so hard (aside from it being hard…)  1:36:00 – Plans to head back up to The Fins  1:36:27 – Jonathan’s upcoming trip to Italy, plans to try Lapsus, and the coronavirus  1:40:09 – Why Jonathan is so grateful for his sponsors and how they have really stepped up to support him, and the Metolius Light Rail  1:43:58 – Writing, how his blog got hijacked and moving from jstarinorbit to jonathansiegrist.com, plans to write new content, and writing blogs for his brands  1:46:54 – Jonathan on Instagram and Twitter, his new YouTube channel, and plans for upcoming videos with EpicTV  1:49:17 – The Fins project video (WIP)  1:50:35 – What Jonathan thinks holds back most climbers, and trying to spend 75% of your time climbing (on rock) and only 25% training (or climbing inside)  1:53:11 – “Try hard.”  1:53:58 – My poster of Jonathan, and being an inspiration as the best thing Jonathan feels like he can ask for  

Bill Ramsey is a professor of philosophy at the University of Nevada Las Vegas and at 59-years-old, still climbs 5.14. We talked about his coffee addiction, his legendary training days and how he uses the treadwall, replicas, and the fingerboard, his two-part climbing career, favorite articles he’s written, and the crossover between philosophy and climbing.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/bill-ramsey  Nuggets:  1:47 – Skipping breakfast, one big meal per day, and red meat  3:35 – Fueling for a big training day  4:12 – How Bill’s legendary big training days came to be  7:20 – Shocking the body, and building the stamina to go all-day   9:03 – Coffee in bed  11:02 – Bill’s two-stage climbing career, how he started training for climbing, and self-coaching for the Marine Core Physical Fitness Test  15:01 – Climbing through the existing routes at the Red River Gorge, his first 5.14, climbing Omaha Beach and Transworld Depravity and playing a roll in the development of the Red and Smith Rock  19:39 – Feeling sorry for Alan and the wrongest Bill has ever been  22:32 – Climbing at the columns, Chris Jones, the contrivance rating system (C1-C4), and some of Alan’s one-handed ascents  26:44 – Focusing on academics and missing climbing and the climbing community  28:47 – What drew Bill to study philosophy  32:45 – Moving to Vegas and why Bill has never regretted making the move  37:20 – How Bill climbed all but one of his 26-27 5.14s after age 40 and   39:23 – Bill’s warmup and stretching routines  42:28 – How Bill combines training with projecting  43:58 – Bills hangboard routine  45:37 – Replicas, practicing the crux as the warmup, and comparing to gymnastics  47:51 – How Bill builds his replicas and makes custom holds  50:43 – Training on the treadwall, and why Bill thinks the treadwall is the most underutilized training tool for route climbers  55:31 – Targeting route lengths and ARCing with the treadwall  56:39 – Using the treadwall to work on climbing faster, and keeping a training journal  58:11 – Similar ingredients in each training day, Bill’s thoughts on training different energy systems, energy system training order, and why Bill doesn’t bother with skill training  1:01:33 – Training and simulating rest positions  1:03:07 – Opposition training and why Bill thinks ~85% of your training time should be climbing-specific  1:05:06 – Fingertip pullups and “finger ups”, and why Bill thinks both are beneficial  1:07:40 – Long duration (density) hangs  1:08:48 – An example of one of Bill’s legendary training days  1:09:35 – Being a local at 6 different crags, and trends and variation that Bill has noticed  1:12:09 – How Bill thinks about balancing building his route pyramid and quick ticks with big projects, his process on Jumbo Pumping Hate, and climbers as nerds trapped in athlete bodies  1:17:47 – The hidden secrets that routes have, Apollo 13, and problem solving  1:20:13 – Tinkering with new beta, and committing to trying 100% every try  1:23:44 – Bill’s writing, his article defending chipping, ‘The Day I Sent Golden’ and writing the forward to the new Smith Rock guidebook  1:28:16 – What Bill is most grateful for  1:29:38 – Crossover between philosophy and climbing  1:30:24 – ‘The Truth and Lies of Climbing’, climbing Separate Reality, and realizing they weren’t that far off from the top  1:35:52 – Bill and Alan’s influence on one another, why Bill feels so fortunate for his path through life and climbing, and feeling like Forest Gump  1:38:52 – Plans for a round 2 interview with Bill and Alan and the welcoming Vegas climbing community  

Mike Doyle is an elite-level rock climber who balances climbing with a career as a software engineer. He also has a long history of competition climbing and coaching. We talked about lessons learned from 10+ years of coaching, his training philosophy, onsighting tips, go-to climbing shoes, surfing, and the best breakfast he’s ever had.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/mike-doyle  Nuggets:  2:06 – Mike’s go-to breakfast, and the best breakfast he’s ever had  3:09 – My climbing gym trip  3:25 – Mike’s early climbing and first (and last) experience with mountaineering  5:58 – Moving to Vancouver for college, coaching at the North Vancouver gym, and the stacked field of young climbers that came out of that program  8:29 – The culture that lead The Edge climbing team to be so successful  9:50 – Mike’s competition career and why he transitioned away from competitions  11:16 – Mike’s evolution as a coach, early coaching mistakes, the importance of building relationships with the kids on the team, and finding individual triggers   17:55 – Enjoying coaching, fear of falling, the story behind ‘Spank the Monkey’, and setting up a top rope on ‘Rude Boys’  21:58 – Flexibility training, and why Mike wouldn’t pay himself to be his own coach  23:25 – The best piece of coaching advice Mike ever got, and the importance of making the training environment fun  25:45 – More time in the gym, and “That’s when you learn technique is when you’re tired.”  26:49 – “Strength training is simple.”   28:13 – How Mike thinks about block training vs. integrating training with climbing   31:14 – Some of the nuts and bolts of Mike’s hangboard training—specifically how he prepared for ‘Necessary Evil’ (reference the TrainingBeta podcast episode linked above for the exact workout he was doing)  32:29 – Mike’s struggle with one-arm hangs  34:46 – Doing a single 10-second full crimp hang for recruitment  37:30 – Mike’s lineup of holds and the importance of sticking to a program  38:09 – Why strength = endurance, and training yourself to recruit less (i.e. relax your grip) on a hangboard  40:09 – Climbing tired to improve efficiency/movement economy  40:50 – Mike’s thoughts on the Moonboard, and “Every tool has its applications.” 42:00 – Nagging injuries and thoughts on climbing hard in the future and what that means  43:06 – Mike’s ‘Remote Controlled Climbing Life’, dreams of traveling and climbing, and the story behind ADATO   46:43 – Why Mike still works 60+ hours per week  49:32 – Creating boundaries around work, “ride or die”, and the balance that Mike hopes to achieve with his current company and work life  52:28 – Working “extra remotely”, two-month trips, and needing a change of scenery  54:54 – A few things Mike looks for in a potential “extra remote” work space  55:32 – Mike’s keyboard and mouse recommendations (Kinesis–link in show notes)  57:06 – The Canadian Alpine Trilogy  1:06:32 – “It’s the Rockies.”  1:07:33 – Mixing in other climbing with the trilogy and plans to go back this summer  1:08:40 – Necessary Evil and necessary diligence  1:11:47 – Climbing as an escape vs. having a focusing project, takeaways from projecting Necessary Evil, and support from the climbing community  1:15:15 – Why Mike’s process on Necessary Evil resonated with so many people  1:16:04 – Mike’s (lack) of unfinished business, ‘Just Do It’, and how he goes about onsighting and redpointing on road trips  1:18:54 – Onsighting tips  1:20:38 – Why Mike love the La Sportiva Genius and why it has become his go-to onsight shoe  1:23:50 – Mike’s favorite stiff shoe for face climbing and the shoes he wore on To Bolt  1:25:01 – The advice Mike would give himself at age 18, climbing standards when Mike climbed his first 14a vs now, Adam Ondra’s onsight attempt on Necessary Evil, and why I think ‘Just Do It’ is in the bag for Mike ;)  1:29:51 – Surfing and Mike’s recent trip to Costa Rica   1:33:30 – What’s next for Mike, his elbow injury, running for fitness, and the one thing about running that translates most to climbing   1:35:34 – Upcoming trips  1:36:31 – Woodford story  

Shanjean Lee is an orthopedic surgeon and a badass climber whose accomplishments range from V10 boulders, to 5.14a sport, to 5.13+ trad and multi-pitch climbs. We talked about how SJ trained to climb ‘City Park’ during her residency, some of her biggest challenges, differences between men and women, dating your climbing partner, and the importance of self-belief.   Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/shanjean-lee  Nuggets:  2:28 – I need a back massage  3:14 – Bouldering in Bishop for the winter  5:36 – SJ and Mikey’s shared goal of climbing V10, getting feedback from Nina Williams and James Lucas, and building the pyramid  8:59 – Bouldering projects, night sessions  10:36 – Moving to Reno, access to a wider variety of climbing, and climbing options while being on call   13:24 – Planning vs going with the flow, and why SJ has learned to plan in more broad strokes  14:35 – A wide ranging resume, and why SJ chose ‘City Park’ as a project  17:59 – The gear for ‘City Park’  19:01 – SJ’s process of projecting ‘City Park’, safety insight from Luke, and beta from Brittany  22:50 – A lesson that SJ learned from climbing ‘Mr. Yuk’, her first 5.14a  28:25 – Instagram post of Mikey doing bicep curls, and “you have to get your strength training in whenever you can.”  29:24 – Why SJ decided to reach out to Justen Sjong  for a training plan  32:01 – SJ’s training plan, her short pinkie, Lattice Lite, and the Crimpt App  36:50 – Takeaways from the Lattice Training assessment  38:51 – Moonboarding, no Moonboards in Reno, and SJ’s (very attainable) life goal  41:32 – Making the first team free ascent of ‘Dark Side of Liberty’ with Mikey and finding the line  47:58 – Breakdown of the route, debating the grade, recruiting Nathan Hadley for the second ascent, and SJ’s hardest boulder problem  54:20 – Pitch by pitch breakdown  57:00– SJ and Mikey’s style for team free ascents and the style they used to redpoint ’Dark Side of Liberty’  1:00:51 – How this climb ranks among SJ’s top achievements and what made it extra special  1:02:55 – Navigating a relationship with your climbing partner, why SJ jokes that “it’s a work in progress”, and the give and take of supporting one another’s goals  1:09:21 – “Climbing heightens your emotions” and the importance of communication in a climbing relationship  1:10:27 – The biggest challenge SJ faced when becoming a doctor-climber  1:16:16 – Adjusting goals to make both climbing and her career work  1:18:15 – What SJ wishes she’d know when she was starting her residency  1:22:07 – What SJ is reading right now (‘Roar’), experimenting with intermittent fasting with Mikey and getting very different results, and timing birth control around climbing   1:26:06 – What her intermittent fasting looked like, stress as a factor, and why she decided it wasn’t for her  1:30:31 – SJ’s favorite recent purchase that dramatically improved her life (Casper light link in show notes), caffeine addiction, and why SJ switched to (mostly) drinking decaf coffee  1:35:39 – Regarding past projects and routes: “They’ve all kinda taught me something.”   1:36:18 – Advice for women trying to break into 5.14 or hard trad, shoulder girdle strengthening, and being aware of and training your weakest link  1:38:53 – Shoulder girdle exercises  1:40:40 – The importance of believing in yourself (especially for women), and the pattern SJ noticed during residency  1:43:02 – SJ’s thoughts on whether an assessment could be used to give someone confidence to try harder  1:44:14 – Working on flexibility and SJ’s yoga subscription  1:45:19 – Yosemite plans, ‘Freerider’, and why the easier parts can feel like the hard parts to a lot of climbers  1:48:55 – What SJ is most grateful for   1:51:29 – Excited for this time in life and to be in Reno  1:52:41 – Work-life balance now vs. back in residency  1:53:58 – SJ’s social media handle (@shanjean on Instagram)  1:54:28 – Shanjean vs. SJ, and the councilor to the emperor  1:56:52 – Hustling, trying hard, and (almost) always smiling :)  

Peter Croft is an absolute legend in climbing. We talked about ‘The Shadow’ in Squamish and how his ascent became a climbing game, lessons from spending time alone, experimenting with burning fat for fuel, how he trains for big solos and linkups, some of his most memorable climbs, long johns vs. lycra, and the magic of inspiration.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/peter-croft   Nuggets:  2:39 – Morning person, taking more rest days, learning about resting from John Bachar, and linking up The Nose and Half Dome in a day  6:59 – “Climbing is a process.”  7:51 – “Peter Croft is my spirit animal.”  8:43 – The friendly introvert, the honesty that comes from spending time alone, doing vs. sharing, and why Peter prefers smaller more intimate groups  14:33 – Shadow games, Peter’s onsight of ‘The Shadow’, and the power of inspiration    18:05 – The video of Jesse Huey climbing ‘The Shadow’, “There’s no place in the world I’d rather be than right here and right now”, and Peter’s transition from Squamish to CA  19:29 – So many new crags, early FAs up in Squamish, and Peter the fun hog  21:18 – Escaping to Leavenworth, a little bit of heaven, and increasing competitiveness in Squamish  24:39 – Soloing up and down Castle Rock, Peter’s Squamish circuit, and how down climbing improved his crack climbing  28:15 – Why Peter hasn’t spent much time projecting  30:51 – Peter’s progression, climbing his first 3-4 5.13s first try, and training by soloing tons of 5.10s and 5.11s  32:21 – Peter’s current training and fingerboarding, current projects, and working on weaknesses   34:15 – Soloing ‘The Rostrum’ and ‘Astroman’ in a day, preparation, and how Peter thinks about training for big solos (“Fitness shouldn’t be a factor.”)  36:08 – Soloing ‘ROTC Crack’ in Leavenworth, testing  fat for fuel, traversing the Stuart Range with a single water bottle and a banana, and the handgun story (“This is how I die.”)  43:44 – Fat for fuel, Peter’s thoughts on (super) high-carb diets, bonking from too much sugar, and “if in doubt, go with less.”  45:55 – The ‘University Wall’  48:03 – Alex Honnold’s free solo of ‘University Wall’, and why Peter never considered doing it himself  49:11 – Why Peter moved to California and why he stayed  51:29 – Exploring the Sierras, ridge traversing, and what makes The Hulk “wonderfully peculiar”.  54:20 – The ‘The Venturi Effect’, and the best stemming corner Peter has ever climbed  55:09 – The gripping free soloing story Peter told on the Enormocast (linked in show notes), and why Peter has survived while so many legendary soloists have died  1:01:41 – Adventure, reading ‘I Chose to Climb’ by Chris Bonington, how Peter got into climbing, and why he never got sucked in to big expedition climbing  1:04:26 – More of the Enormocast free-soloing story, polypropylene long johns, and climbing wet 5.8 friction scoops on his knees  1:09:45 – Tights vs. long johns, an egocentric era, why Peter never wore bright colored lycra, and wearing long johns on rainy days  1:15:00 – Advice Peter would have for himself when he was young (warming up, taking rest days, and picking goals more carefully while being spontaneous) and inspiration as a superpower  1:17:29 – Stumbling on inspiration, and onsighting a hard roof crack after failing on a 5.11   1:19:32 – How inspiration can raise the ceiling from 100% to 150%  1:21:03 – Rare is special, how aesthetics speak to Peter, and the benefits of traveling  1:22:57 – What Peter hopes his 80-year-old self would say to him, health scare, and why climbing for Peter is so much more than just the climbing  1:25:13 – Why Peter is so grateful for his friends, community, the growth of the climbing community in Bishop, and being surrounded by good energy  1:26:56 – Why the increased popularity of Bishop has been a good thing  1:27:57 – Writing, telling stories, and Peter’s current writing project  1:29:51 – Peter’s thoughts on writing a book  1:32:05 – Meeting Alan Watts at Smith Rock in 1981, the one-arm pull-up show, and not putting labels on different types of climbing  1:35:56 – What’s next for Peter, and his thoughts on bouldering as an impact sport  1:38:16 – Feeling like a kid in a candy store, gratitude for finding climbing, and having “the thing”  1:39:46 – Peter’s final thoughts for younger climbers, why he recommends traveling a lot, and the old Greek lady with the baby goats  1:42:04 – Peter’s upcoming trips, flow state with writing, and writing advice from John Long  

Will Stanhope is a professional rock climber with many notable ascents in the realm of single and multi-pitch trad climbing, free-soloing, and cutting edge first ascents. We talked about Will’s recent freak accident and broken finger, the injury process, trad climbing tips, pushing through fear vs. listening to fear, and a case for more climbing/less training.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/will-stanhope  Nuggets:  2:14 – The cruxes of dating internationally as a Canadian  3:00 – Freedom of the Wheels  4:35 – Will’s recent accident and finger injury, modern medicine, and getting the hardware removed  6:56 – “It’s the easy ground that gets you.”  7:14 – Running, rehab, flow state, and a day of easy soloing  9:15 – Having goals and listening to the body, numb scar tissue and Will’s freak accident, and Will’s finger X-Ray  11:03 – Filling the void while injured, “There’s more to life than climbing”, and fly fishing plans  14:09 – FFA of the ‘Tom Egan Memorial Route’ in the Bugaboos, and lots of rainy tent time  15:59 – History of the ‘Tom Egan Memorial Route’ and the pretties crack Will has ever seen  17:06 – “The perfect training recipe” (i.e. manual labor + hangboard repeaters), Will’s thoughts on hard tips crack climbing, and why the rest of us should exercising caution when it comes to hard crack climbing  20:56 – Soloing as a part of Will’s training, and a case for climbing more  22:03 – Guiding and getting recognized for past accomplishments  23:28 – Shifting away from hardcore projecting, and the Howzer Tower linkup w/ Leo Holding  26:30 – Simulclimbing, finding the right partner, and (contrived) climbing games  30:18 – Future projects, getting into mountain climbing, and “wielding all the swords”  32:03 – Headpointing vs. soloing, pushing through fear vs. listening to fear, and backing off  34:16 – Keeping soloing “safe”  35:09 – Downclimbing: “The lost art”   36:37 – Free soloing in Froggat (10+ years ago), trying ‘Parthian Shot’ and breaking his foot, and climbing ‘Muy Caliente’  39:07 – The E-grade system   40:33 – What Will learned from climbing with Leo  42:00 – “You can’t skip learning”, and why Will keeps his goals to himself nowadays  44:12 – Bouldering   45:02 – Will’s trad climbing tips for racking up, and polysporin (or neosporin) for gobies  47:15 – “More climbing, less training”  49:19 – Will’s hangboarding protocol  50:22 – Pushups and training opposing muscles and core stability  51:59 – What Will wishes he’d known at age 20 (he’s currently 33 years old) “Trust your own instincts”  52:44 – What Will wishes he’d known at age 30 - “Always really clean your climbing shoes”  53:22 – Will’s Anthony Bourdain kick  55:20 – Grateful to be alive  55:51 – Excited to get back in the game  56:31 – Will’s Instagram, ‘Freedom of the Wheels’ sequel, wrap up  

Kristin Yurdin is a restaurant owner and chef who has balanced a successful career with hard climbing and genuine enjoyment of life. She and her husband Ian opened The Terrebonne Depot, a very successful restaurant near Smith Rock. We talked about her transition from podiatric surgeon to restaurant owner, about her climbing progression and training, and about redpointing her first 5.14a at 42-years-old.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/kristin-yurdin  Nuggets:  1:28 – “I’ll try not to get pumped.”  2:09 – Walk the Casbah  4:30 – The spouse vs. the dog, kids  5:20 – Kristin’s residency in Portland, practicing podiatric surgery in Hood River, and the path to starting a restaurant   12:12 – Working in restaurants to get experience  13:58 – Setting aside climbing to build and run the restaurant, learning to grill, and why you need to be able to do all of the roles if you are running a small business  18:00 – Being to busy to miss climbing, hiring people to manage parts of the business, and deciding not to do breakfast  20:12 – Success from day 1, and serving a wide variety of customers and food  21:28 – October at the restaurant, the pumpkin patch, and sending ‘Vicious Fish’  23:38 – Kristin’s restaurant training plan  25:15 – The one thing Kristin wish she had known and weathering the recession  26:38 – Kristin’s thoughts and advice for someone thinking about starting a business, a restaurant, or taking a leap  28:32 – Kristin’s decision—“this can’t fail”  29:21 – “If you want your business to stay or course you have to be present.”  30:14 – Climbing ‘White Wedding’, and what drew Kristin to ‘Chemical Ali’  33:22 – How Kristin trained for ‘Chemical Ali’, stretching, doing weighted pullups with 47.5 lbs added, Paige’s advice, learning to move her foot faster, and trying hard  38:16 – Adopting Paige, climbing in Waterfall Boven (South Africa), and the best part of the trip (seeing the animals)  40:30 – Kalymnos  41:30 – Selling The Depot business and the current owners who are climbers  43:30 – Adding a food cart, volunteering with Dog Pack, and plans for future animal advocacy work  46:00 – Following passion, learning new things, and the decision to sell the restaurant  47:14 – What climbing looks like now for Kristin, Ian’s recent injuries, and prioritizing her remaining time with Casbah  49:30 – Kristin’s recent and current mini-projects, ‘Churning in the Ozone’ and ‘Waste Case’  52:28 – Hangboarding, campusing, moonbarding, why Kristin avoids monos now, and listening to her body to plan training days  56:59 – Kristin’s advice for shorter climbers (she’s 5’2”)  58:29 – How Kristin got started in climbing, her progression, and climbing her first 5.14 at age 42  1:01:44 – Kristin’s thoughts on whether or not she will project another 5.14, running, and what a training week looks like now  1:04:18 – How Kristin thinks about food and weight for climbing  1:05:10 – Kristin’s best decision  1:05:55 – Taking care of the planet, doing little things to help, and thinking about bigger things that might help  1:07:23 – Gratitude for health  1:08:46 – Kristin’s advice for anyone thinking about starting a business or taking a big leap, and balancing listening to others vs. trusting your gut  1:13:22 – “It’s all about the ingredients.”  

Ian Yurdin is a Smith Rock local who climbs hard and has had a successful career developing footwear for companies like Adidas, FiveTen, and Solomon. We talked about his career in product creation and his transition to consulting, starting a restaurant with his wife Kristin, his history with ‘To Bolt Or Not To Be’, measuring rock temperature to quantify climbing conditions, health issues, and the things he is most grateful for.  *NOTE: Ian had actually clipped the 13th bolt on ‘To Bolt’ on his heartbreaking try. (He mistakenly said it was the 12th in the interview.)  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/ian-yurdin  Nuggets:  1:40 – Barry’s backup beeper  3:55 – Renovating a 100-year-old train depot and moving the building 36 feet  7:10 – What sparked the idea for the Terrebonne Depot, seeing the building, and calling the owner every month for three years  12:17 – Building a place to bring together the community as a passion project vs. smart business move, and the storage shower   17:31 – Kristin sending Vicious Fish while working 60+ hours per week at the restaurant, and Ian’s favorite era at Smith (~2006-2008)  19:39 – Working through the other classic 5.13s and climbing ‘White Wedding’  23:29 – “The Unfinishables”  25:03 – Herniated discs, colonoscopies, and cancer  28:38 – Ian’s current health, my experience working with Mark DeJohn, being your own health advocate, and Ian’s thoughts about surgery for disc injuries   35:30 – My friend’s experience with back surgery and pain killers  37:36 – Ian’s other life, footwear, and managing a 100-million-dollar business  42:51 – Transitioning into consulting, the difference between working for a brand vs. working for yourself, and the power of the consumer  50:03 – What can we do as consumers, thinking about where things come from, vetting brands, and voting with your dollars  53:42 – Different businesses as different organisms  56:24 – Ian’s history on ‘To Bolt Or Not To Be’  1:13:09 – Passing on beta, being in Nina’s video, and failure yes or no, and the line between unfun and unhealthy  1:18:38 – ‘To Bolt’ as a Ph.D. in face climbing, and the tradeoffs of long-term projecting  1:20:46 – The temperature gun (thermometer), conditions, and noticing trends   1:32:56 – Ian’s warmup routine for ‘To Bolt’, forcing the pressure numb, and practicing falling   1:40:02 – Mixing in other pitches for fitness  1:42:26 – What Ian learned from climbing with Paige Claassen (now Paige de Kock)  1:49:53 – Gratitude for Casbah, health, friends, living in Central Oregon  1:53:41 – Ian’s excitement to be healthy and pain-free, climbing again, mountains, and being a dabbler alpinist  1:55:32 – Ian’s experience and thoughts on Instagram and Facebook  

Brittany Goris is a rock climber, graphic design artist, and self-proclaimed dirtbag. Her recent obsession has been projecting hard single-pitch trad climbs. We talked about her recent ascent of ‘Stingray’ 5.13d in Joshua Tree, the allure of dirtbagging, training on the road, finding community, tips for onsighting, free WiFi, and learning patience.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/brittany-goris   Nuggets:  2:23 – Deciding to go to Joshua Tree, becoming infatuated with “The Dirtbag Thing”, and Brittany’s four goal-routes    5:17 – Racking up attempts on ‘Stingray’ and comparing it to ‘City Park’   6:57 – ‘City Park’ and ‘Stingray’ compared to Brittany’s other hardest climbs   8:02 – Flirting with an overuse injury and her swollen right index finger   10:39 – The breakdown of ‘Stingray’   14:33 – The weather as a factor, ideal conditions, and added sending pressure   16:55 – Thriving on pressure   17:59 – Brittany’s process working on ‘Stingray’, dealing with tendonitis, ring workouts, and supplemental training   22:24 – On or off mode, and Brittany’s life over the holidays, and vacation mode vs. projecting mode    26:42 – Brittany’s endurance base and why she didn’t need to focus on endurance for ‘Stingray’   28:36 – Making an effort to get more sleep and drinking too much climber coffee   29:53 – The different catalysts that help Brittany find the “on mode”   31:22 – Embracing the “off mode”, and balancing the two modes   34:15 – Being discipline in specific ways, and being all in vs. moderation   35:34 – How Brittany chooses her objectives and where she travels to next and finding a sense of place   39:45 – Brittany’s thoughts on whether dirtbagging makes recovery harder, living in a CRV, and cooking meals in a JetBoil for a year   42:32 – Brittany’s beta for camp chairs and working remotely   45:54 – Favorite rest day activities, playing games, spending time with the people, and running and stretching to relax and Brittany’s version of meditation   48:32 – Writing and journaling, writing one sentence per day, and tracking time spent in each location   52:19 – How Brittany got into climbing and why she never fell in love with Bishop   54:36 – How Brittany thinks about bouldering vs. route climbing and her plans to get in shape for Yosemite   58:48 – Building on community from place to place, and the best thing about climbing   1:01:50 – Brittany’s approach to onsight climbing, onsighting tactics, and why it might be her favorite style of climbing   1:07:10 – Always going for the onsight, getting on ‘Weekend Whipper’, getting into sketchy situations, and Brittany’s close call this summer   1:10:14 – Balancing onsight climbing with redpointing and projecting, Brittany’s thoughts on (not) warming up, and sussing out a route for a 2nd go redpoint    1:16:53 – Creating art, making her van feel like home, and tips for feeling grounded on the road, van life, showers, remote working, and fast internet   1:21:51 – Early road rage and practicing patience   1:24:58 – Brittany’s struggle with self patience, and chasing her best self   1:25:43 – Reading, most impactful books, and dropping everything to pursue the love of climbing  1:28:26 – Developing routes vs. engaging with history and writing yourself into a pre-existing story  1:30:24 – Dreaming of Yosemite, unknowns, and learning mindset  1:32:57 – Plans for ‘The Stigma’ (aka ‘The Renegade’), ‘The Phoenix’, and ‘Cosmic Debris’  1:34:53 – Brittany’s dream of climbing 5.14 on gear, sharing goals vs. the “pre-spray”, and bouldering on gear  1:36:43 – The thing Brittany is most grateful for lately  1:38:19 – The dirtbag dream—has it lived up to it?  

Mark DeJohn is a licensed massage therapist who specialized in Active Release Technique (ART). I began seeing Mark after suffering from Carpal Tunnel Syndrome for six years. Mark was able to fix me using ART. We talked about the root cause and how overly tight muscles can become an injury, how Mark thinks about overuse injuries and his tips to avoid them, and two stretches every climber should do.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/mark-dejohn  Nuggets:  2:03 – What is Active Release Technique (ART)?  3:48 – My (Steven’s) Carpal Tunnel Syndrome (CTS) and how and overly tight muscle can become an injury  10:19 – Homework vs. compliance  12:18 – ART as a standalone treatment, and ART paired with Chiropractic treatment  14:59 – The body as a system, and working up and down the chain  17:19 – Other climbing related injuries Mark has treated  18:47 – How climbers should be stretching, and two stretches every climber should do  20:37 – Timing, when to stretch, Mark’s thoughts on isometric vs. dynamic stretches, and how tight muscles can lead to tendonitis  24:13 – Scar tissue and Mark’s “gum in the carpet” theory  25:20 – Mark’s thoughts on tightness vs. strength, and whether “too flexible” is a concern  28:21 – How Mark got started with ART and becoming an ART instructor  32:14 – How Mark got involved with triathlons, being on support teams, and his trip to China  36:50 – Mark’s size (6’3”, 240lbs) and the difficulty of working on NFL players  38:10 – What Mark does for his own treatment, and Mark’s experience trying climbing  39:45 – Mark’s thoughts on going to muscular failure in the forearms every session vs. varied training  43:51 – A case for variability in your workouts and the root cause that lead to me developing CTS  45:49 – The recipe for overuse injuries: Doing too much of the same stuff too often  46:20 – How (bad) posture can lead to injuries and what Mark is working on for himself  48:17 – Working with people from all walks of life and the 90-year-old Canasta player  48:51 – Why Mark loves working with athletes and helping people get back in the game  50:45 – How to find a good ART practitioner  51:54 – Advice I needed to hear, stress vs. eustress, and Mark’s advice to keep getting outside if you’re injured  53:49– My recommended tools for self-care (Armaid, Theracane, Wave Tool) and Mark’s usage tips  56:15 – The Deep Muscle Stimulator and why Mark thinks it would be a good addition to a climbers kit  58:39 – How Mark got into bikes, racing, and why he prefers to get out and enjoy open spaces  1:04:07 – Mark’s plan to grow his business into something he can sell, and the benefits of K laser treatment  1:09:39 – One thing Mark would have done differently if he could go back in time  1:10:18 – Mark’s construction business, how he transitioned to ART, and Mark’s uncle Spencer   1:13:36 – Why Mark has changed his mind about the psychological component of treatment  1:17:05 – The links between brain, gut, body, pain, and everything else   1:17:50 – Diet and genes as potential factors   1:23:38 – Some of the best decisions Mark has ever made, learning new things, and keeping an open mind  1:26:47 – Something Mark is grateful for  1:28:04 – Something Mark is excited about right now  1:30:14 – Mark’s final advice for climbers: be proactive, cross-train (do other stuff), and hydrate like crazy  1:31:43 – Electrolytes  1:33:41 – How Mark’s other athletes use cross-training and options for climbers  1:34:48 – What’s next for Mark  1:36:30 – How to connect with Mark  1:36:53 – The review I left for Mark back in June 2019

Alan Watts is widely regarded as the founding father of Smith Rock, and was a key player in the development of sport climbing in America. He established the first 5.13d in America with ‘East Face’ in 1985—just shy of the world standard. We talked about eating every other day, his paradigm shift from freeing aid climbs to face climbing, wearing Wolfgang’s shirt, meeting Adam Ondra, and his “little slice of contribution” to the sport of climbing.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/alan-watts  Nuggets:  2:21 – The evolution of dirtbagging, early road life, Smith as a safe zone, “there were no routes”  7:12 – Eating every other day  19:52 – Abstainers vs moderators  24:07 – Bill Ramsey, UO, and climbing “every variation imaginable” at the Columns  29:08 – Connecting with the people you need  31:45 – Inferiority complex and pushing to improve  33:09 – Paradigm shift from freeing aid climbs to climbing faces  39:16 – Stumbling upon sport climbing and going from being a decent climber to a really good climber  41:34 – Redpoint tactics, ethics, and borrowing from the Europeans  45:44 – ‘Corner No. 1’, how ‘Chain Reaction’ got its name, and reaching the world standard at Smith Rock  47:33 – 11b to 13d in six years, ‘Punks in the Gym’, and pushing world standards  48:49 – Meeting Heinz Zak and Wolfgang’s t-shirt  51:57 – Pioneering Smith Rock film by Hydro Flask, and going back to the summer of ’85, and ‘East Face’ 5.13d  57:06 – Other hard crack climbs and ‘Double Stain’  58:30 – 7 days prepping ‘Sunshine Wall’ and the story of ‘To Bolt or Not to Be’  1:04:39 – Climbing ever day, injuries, and killing the goose that laid the golden eggs  1:15:20 – Hip surgery and meeting Adam Ondra  1:24:05 – Adam’s post about meeting Alan, and Adam’s onsight of ‘Just Do It’ 5.14c  1:29:57 – Adam’s photo book (Alan-“What the hell? How did I make the cut?”)  1:31:22 – The Awl project, “I do not want to FAIL!”  1:33:49 – Bolting futuristic projects, thinking anything was possible, and bolting ‘Just Do It’ for a TV show in 1989  1:41:28 – “I used to visualize before that was what you were supposed to do”  1:45:05 – “Fucking hard green route”  1:47:20 – Alan’s finger strength, hanging from one hand for (almost) a minute, and gym vs. outdoor climbing  1:54:23 – The updated Smith Rock guidebook  1:55:31 – Alan’s box of tights  1:58:25 – The 100 book list and projecting difficult books  2:03:32 – Working on the guidebook and connecting with the people  2:08:24 – The (lack of) ways to connect with Alan  2:10:06 – A slice of contribution in a little tiny sport  2:12:58 – “He’s cheating”, and Alan’s funny recurring dream  

William Woodward (@wheretowillie on Instagram) is a climber, skier, and professional travel photographer. We talked about the beginnings of ‘Where to Willie’, balancing work and passion, finding meaningful stories and doing work that matters, Will’s daily routines, rules for life, photo advice, and three things he is grateful for.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/william-woodward  Nuggets:  1:33 – Ruby the Vanagon  4:48 – Will’s defining moment, early travels, blogging, and the start of Where to Willie  8:50 – Will’s career transition and taking the leap as a freelance photographer  19:06 – Finding meaningful work and Will’s three-year plan  25:25 – Capturing experiences vs. being present  27:11 – Will’s daily meditation practice  29:51 – Will’s five coffee making methods  31:05 – Running and stolen bicycles  31:51 – Will’s process for finding freelance work and choosing brands to work for  33:06 – Pitching trips and photo projects  34:42 – The business of selling photography and his book recommendation  38:50 – Balancing work and passion and getting out of a rut  41:34 – “Rule number one: always swim”, flowered shirts, and other rules for life  45:10 – Hiking in Patagonia and a world record in Iceland  55:00 – Advice for traveling photographers and capturing the in-between moments  59:55 – Will’s writing, gear reviews, and tutorials  1:03:17 – Being part of the activity vs. keeping up on the latest gear  1:05:23 – One of Will’s personal mottos–“Get closer.”  1:05:52 – Will’s climbing progression and his relationship to climbing  1:08:36 – Alpine technical leadership training, sport climbing at Smith  1:10:46 – Will’s first trip to the Bugaboos, recent climbs, and plans for Mt. Stuart  1:13:29 – Promoting the outdoors vs. seeking solitude  1:14:06 – Why Will bought a new film camera and shooting film vs. digital  1:15:57 – “It’s ok to ask for help.”  1:17:15 – Will’s advice for himself at age 20  1:18:27 – Coolant, blown head gaskets, and why it’s always worth taking the time  1:19:43 – Will’s upcoming trip to NZ and giving yourself time to let things happen  1:20:57 – Will’s three gratitudes  1:22:34 – Journaling, writing as a habit, and why it has fallen off recently  1:23:55 – What’s next for Where to Willie  1:25:31 – Social media plugs  1:26:13 – Chasing great light