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Hindustan Times - HT Smartcast
In this podcast, National Books Editor Manjula Narayan tells you about books, authors and their journeys. This is a Hindustan Times production, brought to you by HT Smartcast
Speaking in many tongues
"Those who don't have a university or a high school for their languages are the ones who don't have economic resources. The poorest among the poor are linguistically deprived and also economically deprived. People say, 'What is the harm if many languages go and only some remain?' These are questions raised out of ignorance. Every language is a unique world view. The way every language defines space and time is unique. When languages die, we are denying ourselves the benefit of the diversity of unique world views. Diversity is necessary for the evolutionary process. By denying diversity, we are reducing our ability to go forward and meet new challenges" - GN Devy, author, 'India; A Linguistic Civilization' talks to Manjula Narayan about the emergence of a rich literature in many Adivasi languages in the 21st century, his work with the Linguistic Survey of India, language aphasia, the rise of Sanskrit, why the Harappan script still hasn't been deciphered, the tragedy of gadgets replacing parental interactions with children, and dyslexia and dysgraphia as conditions that indicate a step in the evolutionary process, among other things.
58:0601/11/2024
Terrorists, tawaifs and secret superstars
"In the 1970s, Muslim characters in films were very different. In the 1990s, Roja opened the floodgates for films representing Muslims as terrorists. It was the first film which looked at the identity of the enemy. Then, especially after the attacks of 9/11, there was a big change in the representation of Muslims in Hindi films. As for women, in many films, Muslim women are reduced to being victims of oppression always. Now, whatever is happening in the current sociopolitical scene is directly reflected on screen. I have tried to connect the politics of representation in Hindi films with contemporary politics. So my book isn't just film studies, it is also a political text" — Nadira Khatun, author, 'Postcolonial Bollywood and Muslim Identity' talks to Manjula Narayan about everything from Pran in Zanjeer to the saviour syndrome in Gully Boy, the Brahmanical stance of films like Secret Superstar and Lipstick Under my Burqa, the absence of films made by subaltern Muslims, the vanished Muslim Social of the 1970s and 80s, and much more.
57:4425/10/2024
Theyyam: Parapsychology, Paradox and Folk Belief
"The parapsychological element is very strong in Theyyam, which is an example of Indian shamanism. When you worship a Theyyam, you don't need an intermediary, a priest, like you do in a temple; here you can go into a direct dialogue with the Theyyam. 90 percent of the Theyyams are mother goddesses performed by men. And though a Theyyam performance is highly caste oriented, it can only be a success if every community of a particular area gives their support. So everybody joins together for it and if they have disputes, it is all settled before the Theyyam, during the performance" - KK Gopalakrishnan, author, 'Theyyam; Indian Folk Ritual Theatre' talks to Manjula Narayan about this living tradition of Kerala, the touching stories that are narrated, elements of ancestor and nature worship that are central to the pre-Brahmanical folk form, the paradox of it flourishing in northern Kerala where communism first sprouted in the state, the Muslim Theyyams of Malabar, the spectacle of the performances, and how it is, in a sense, a repository of the race memory of the people of the region.
57:1317/10/2024
An extraordinary intellect
"She was my grandmother so I could have wanted to create a portrait of a person who was very fantastic and - she was fantastic and wonderful - but I didn't want to do anything that wasn't factual that tried to whitewash anything she did - there ware controversial things about her and her academic life and how she went about things. I knew this from my own mother 's view of her. One of the reasons Thiago and I did get along was because we were very clear that we weren't going to do a hagiography" -- Urmilla Deshpande and Thiago Pinto Barbosa, co-authors of 'Iru; the Remarkable Life of Irawati Karve' talk to Manjula Narayan about the pioneering Indian anthropologist, her time in 1920s Berlin where she did her PhD under racist anthropologist Eugin Fischer, her use of the Mahabharata and other ancient Indian texts to help her interpret contemporary questions about language, culture and religion in Indian society, Yugant, their own use of critical fabulation in the writing of this book, and the strange similarity between the sarcasm and dourness of the people of Berlin and of Karve's hometown, Pune!
56:4711/10/2024
Video Ga Ga: Excavating a forgotten cultural moment
"In the West and in privileged pockets of India that have access to technology, we think technology is linear — first film, then TV, then video... But actually in India and in most of the countries that form the global majority, obsolescence structures this. It is not like there is a linear progression of technology for everyone. A lot of people have access to tech which might not be current or new for a certain privileged class.
One of my research sites was the Malegaon film industry. This was a DIY filmmaking culture where they made their own films, which had social messaging and were spoofs of Bollywood or Hollywood films. Analog video tech was the base infrastructure of this film industry. They used analog video to shoot and edit these films. It was really interesting that analog video, which was supposed to be very 1980s, 20 years later becomes the base for the industry in Malegaon. I saw this industry, as I was tracking it, changing from analog to digital and thought there seems to be a connection between the two. How can we understand digital culture through a historical perspective? I thought video might offer me clues to make sense of the present" - Ishita Tiwary, author, 'Video Culture in India; The Analog Era' talks to Manjula Narayan about her book that excavates an entirely forgotten cultural moment with its wedding videos, video libraries, godmen like Rajneesh who used the technology to gain an international following, video news magazines like Newstrack that documented everything from Mandal and Masjid to the militarization of Kashmir, and the video films featuring, among others, Aditya Pancholi and a pre-Rangeela Urmila Matondkar, that emerged from media magnate Nari Hira's company, Hiba.
56:5904/10/2024
The Less Remembered Bits of Modern India’s Origin Story
"British India was what had been annexed before 1857. The rest of it was princely India, which formed 45 percent of the subcontinent, almost half. At school, we learn about what happened in British India but most of us don't know about what happened in the part ruled by rajas and nawabs even though it formed such a big part of the independence movement and transfer of power and so on. It's a key element of the story of independence but somehow, it doesn't figure in textbooks.
The general idea we have is that the princely kingdoms were all backward and feudal. All of them were not like that. In fact, the first constitution in India was in a princely kingdom -- Baroda. Many princes were forward thinking — there was the Maharaja's temple entry proclamation in Travancore, some states like Mysore were industrialising... The idea that all of them were backward is not true. I have tried not to pass judgement. I have tried to humanise these people and see them from different perspectives...Nehru and Patel had nothing but disdain for the royal class but Patel was a practical person. He knew he had to get them on board to sigh their own death warrants. This book is a bit of history and geography. Had it not been for these events, the map of India would be very different. I have tried to not make it like reading a record but like watching a movie"
- Mallika Ravikumar, author, '565; The Dramatic Story of Unifying India' talks to Manjula Narayan about how Sardar Patel, VP Menon and the hurriedly formed States Department managed to coax and, in some cases, force princely states like Tripura, Bikaner, Travancore, Bhopal, Jammu and Kashmir, Patiala and Hyderabad, among others, to join the Indian union in 1947.
44:0927/09/2024
Fan Favourite | Medieval Dynasties of Southern India
As HT Smartcast completes 5 amazing years, we are re-releasing the most loved episode from this podcast. "People who are powerful and wealthy are always complex and layered characters," says Anirudh Kanisetti, author, Lords of the Deccan, in this Books & Authors' episode with Manjula Narayan, about the ambitious, adventurous, charismatic and bloodthirsty medieval dynasties of southern India from the Chalukyas to the Cholas.
53:1125/09/2024
Of belief and belonging
"If you think about it deeply, everybody makes their own faith. No matter what faith they are from, everyone finds their own journey, their own truth, and they may mix and match things from different elements of different faiths and see what is true to them. Hinduism and Buddhism tend to be away from any springboard of certitude. They are more amorphous; you can make God whatever you want.
A lot of people would say that the beauty of Hinduism is that it is not overly prescriptive. It is a different matter that some are trying to change that now. Still, its an organic religion. I wanted to contrast the various shades of it through the people that I interviewed and through the culture in which I had grown up.
Even if you are non religious, religion and faith encumber everything in our country. It's not just politics but also in everyday things like going out for a meal and asking a vegetarian friend if it's ok that you eat meat, in how ritual ties into caste and how caste ties into identity. All of this we know but I wanted to go into it in a granular way and so this became a big book in the end! 'Tripping down the Ganga' is about the nature of everyday Hindu faith. It is a memoir; it is my journey and you can't separate the observer from what he or she observes. It is a subjective journey, in that sense" — Siddharth Kapila, author, Tripping Down the Ganga, talks to Manjula Narayan about going on yaatras with his mother to pilgrimage spots along the great river from Gaumukh to Ganga Sagar, the believers he met along the way, the experience as a liberal, city bred Hindu Indian of being both an insider and an outsider, the faultlines of caste and gender, and the sense of ecological doom that now hangs over many sacred spots in the Himalayas that are key to Hinduism.
57:0720/09/2024
Inspirational flashback to the golden era of Hindi cinema
"I don't think Dev Sahab and Goldie ever pretended they were making art but the artistry was inherent in what they were doing. 'Guide' (1965) is the daddy of all films. In it, Dev Anand's character just wanted to escape his past; he is not in search of the meaning of life. The meaning of life is thrust upon him. He's really the unwilling messiah. Goldie Sahab told me the story is a different beast from the screenplay. At that time, I shook my head as if I understood what he was saying. But it's only now that I am a practitioner that I realise, 'Oh, it was a mantra he was transmitting to me'. The screenplay and story are not the same. That's is why RK Narayan cribbed so much about 'Guide'. Watch the English 'Guide' [which was a flop] - that was the book. Watch the Hindi 'Guide'. It was different."
- Tanuja Chaturvedi, author, 'Hum Dono; the Dev and Goldie Story' talks to Manjula Narayan about her book that touches on the professional collaboration of the Anand brothers, Dev and Goldie Anand, who, together, made some of the most memorable commercial Hindi films of the 1950s and 1960s, the power of vintage Hindi film music, and her experience of working at their production company, Navketan Films, as a young graduate fresh out of FTII.
59:2714/09/2024
All about the sumptuous Onam sadhya
"It struck me when I was doing the book that people preparing an Onam sadhya were putting together 25-30 dishes that were all gluten free and mostly vegan too. In fact, a sadhya can be fully vegan. The payasam can use almond or oats milk instead of regular cow's milk. Coconut yogurt will, of course, be the best substitute as it fits the flavour profile of the food. Ghee is perhaps the only thing that you will have to give up on. Unlike the old days, now people, even in Kerala, rarely cook the sadhya at home. They order it. I hope that my book will act as a trigger to get people to actually cook a sadhya. Because the process is engaging. There is a pattern to it. The way you cook it, the way you serve it... It's not like any other meal. It's almost like a ritual. There's also a lot of discipline that comes with serving a sadhya. You will find Ayurveda reflected quite elaborately in it. It is not about just shoving some food onto a banana leaf." - Arun Kumar TR, author, Feast on a Leaf; The Onam Sadhya Cookbook, talks to Manjula Narayan about the many delicious dishes that are part of an Onam celebration, the legend of Mahabali, his own childhood memories of the festival at his ancestral home that form the base of this book, and the imaginative use of yams, jackfruit and banana in Kerala sadhya cuisine.
54:3905/09/2024
Of insiders, outsiders, and insiders outside!
"The earliest record of Northeast India is in the writing of Huen Tsang in the 7th century. So people have been going there for many centuries. The notion that people of only one ethnicity have lived in one place is really not true. Closer examination blows up this idea. It is an idea that has come with modernity. Modern identity and the modern idea of the nation state and the following nationalisms have been problematic in places that have deep and intertwined diversity like the Indian subcontinent. Maybe it made sense in a specific part of Europe in a specific time but the idea has been devastating for us. It led to the Partition but it did not end there. We have had insurgency after insurgency. Pakistan too has had the same challenge. Bangladesh is perhaps the only country that comes closest to that original idea.
Northeast India has a history of separatist insurgencies that spring from the history of the place. The issue of identity, of belonging, is very complex. As a Bengali growing up in Shillong it was a very difficult topic of conversation. In fact, there was no conversation. The first book, 'Insider, Outsider; Tales of Belonging and Unbelonging in India's North East set it in motion. That concentrated more on Assam as the largest state in the region. This book focuses on the other states too.
When putting this book together, we were not looking for atrocity propaganda. The intention was to encourage an internal dialogue within the different communities of the northeast. Hopefully, people read these pieces and understand others' histories and look at their own histories too"
- Samrat Choudhury, co-editor, 'But I Am One of You; Northeast India and the Struggle to Belong' talks to Manjula Narayan about the many perspectives on a range of issues presented in this book including the decommissioning of the Gumti dam to aid ethnic reconciliation in Tripura, the Meitei Pangals or Meitei Muslims from Manipur, the Northeastern experience of being othered in New Delhi, Marwaris in Shillong during a dangerous time, and the Nepali speaking people of the different states of the Northeast, among others.
47:2230/08/2024
Fantastic tales about trees
"Most people seem to think that if they cut 10 trees and then plant 100 trees they have atoned for their sins but ecologically that doesn't make sense. The best thing to do is to protect what we already have. There is a pushback from nature and we are all seeing the effects. When you cut old growth trees, it is going to be that much tougher to deal with climate change because these trees store enormous quantities of carbon. Even if you planted 100 other trees, by the time those grow, where will we be? The oldest tree in the world is more than 5000 years old and the oldest tree in India is about 2031 years old. Trees grow continuously until they die. They are a lesson to all of us -- that we need to keep ourselves intellectually and physically fit until we die or we will become obsolete and irrelevant. I want this book to make people relate to trees in a much bigger way than before. Western countries have their champion/heritage/iconic tree registers and there is a lot of public participation in updating them. We too must make our own tree registers at the village, district, state and finally, the national level. We must have a heritage tree register of India that's updated from time to time" – S Natesh, author, 'Iconic Trees of India' talks to Manjula Narayan about the country's many old and wonderful trees with their own fantastic history including the mother tree of the Dussehri mango in UP, the sacred rayan tree of Ranakpur, the coronation cypress of Norbugang in Sikkim, and the Mahabodhi tree in Bodhgaya under which Buddha attained enlightenment, among others.
58:4422/08/2024
The Millennial Hero Complex and other stories
"Millennials are unique in that every conflict or political situation that we see feels like it is at the same distance from us. So Manipur or the riots in Delhi feel at the same distance, which may or may not be great for political action. We were convinced that we could do things that were much more meaningful than any generation before us because of the tools that we had -- the Internet and the ability to share things with a billion people at once. That deluded us into thinking that we could actually change things! Millennials do have an inflated idea of their ability to change things and that drives a lot of anxiety because then we realise that we are powerless against most things. The millennial hero complex looked at from the outside can be cringe worthy" - AM Gautam, author, 'Indian Millennials; Who Are They Really' talks to Manjula Narayan about everything from The Kashmir Files and grief at ecological deterioration to political action, free floating anxiety and the reaction to the Sushant Singh Rajput case.
47:3716/08/2024
Of khichdi, kheer and khayali pulao: Tales of Indian food
"There is no reference to the biryani in the popular domain earlier than 125 years ago. Biryani was just one of the many varieties of pulao. One text tells us that no civilised gourmet in Lucknow touched biryani. They only ate yakhni pulao. So how has biryani become so important? Because if you are a show off and nouveau riche, you could show that, look, I've cooked something so expensive and exotic for my guests! Yes, the Nizams of Hyderabad, with the Hyderabadi dum ki biryani, did cultivate it into a very good art form. But the Nizams rose only after the decline of the Mughals so the biryani came from the Nizam who was experimenting with Turkish and Persian food. The food was from different directions. The biryani has been mythologised and mystified as an exotic dish so it has become aspirational. But a pulao is a pulao is a pulao and, with all due respect to biryani lovers, a biryani is a bit of a con! The biryani rose after 1857 to please the British. People wanted to go outside the pulao route and make it so complicated that it was like a jigsaw puzzle for them to unravel - ki kha kya rahe hai!" - Pushpesh Pant, author, 'Lazzatnama; Recipes of India' talks to Manjula Narayan about biryanis and pulaos, recipes of the Mahabharata, prawn poha, Kayasth mock meat dishes, North Eastern cuisine, kheers and khichdis, and how the modern kitchen has taken the drudgery out of cooking, among many other interesting things.
50:1609/08/2024
The Great Nicobar Island Project: Staring at Certain Disaster
"The Great Nicobar Island Project will cause huge devastation in the landscape. Just 20 years ago, this was the epicentre of the earthquake and tsunami of December 2004. With this project, we are putting the island, the people and the ecology back in harm's way. These islands experience an earthquake a week. In 2004, precisely the spot where this port is coming up has seen a permanent subsidence of 15 feet. The lighthouse at Indira Point, which was in the forest is now surrounded by the sea. Even if we forget the indigenous people this will effect and the loss of 1 million trees that will be cut down for the project – though there is no reason to forget about them – if there's another tsunami, or another two feet of subsidence, the investment of Rs 72,000 crores will be completely lost." - @pankajsekh, editor, 'The Great Nicobar Betrayal' talks to @utterflea about the recklessness of the planned Great Nicobar Island project which will lead to the loss of primitive forests, undocumented biodiversity, ways of life of the Great Nicobarese and Shompen tribes, and of a huge chunk of public money.
51:3402/08/2024
Finding Moments of Tenderness in a Conflicted City
"For people who grew up in the 1990s in Srinagar, the undercurrent of tension has always been our lived reality. This book is about how everyday normal lives also exist in Kashmir and how people navigate around the violence. It is about finding the tender moments in a city that is not 'normal'. The kind of pain that different people have felt in Kashmir has been different but the intensity of it is not something that you want pitched each against the other. Some people say Pandits had it worse because they had to leave. Others say Muslims had it worse because they had to stay and witness what happened over the last 30 years. But it's not a competition of who had it worse. It is horrible what happened to both communities. We have to move forward" - Sadaf Wani, author, 'City As Memory; A Short Biography of Srinagar' talks to Manjula Narayan on the Books & Authors podcast about life in a city that's seen much conflict, about marginalised sections of the populace, caste and class discrimination, the self surveillance of Kashmiri women, PTSD, the ongoing drug epidemic, the slow decline of the Kashmiri language, and collective and individual trauma.
01:02:4626/07/2024
Mango Nation; On India's Favorite Fruit
"The mango truly is a natural obsession, like cricket or Bollywood or politics. Every Indian is an expert on the mango. Perhaps there's no other country in the world which has a comparable relationship with a fruit. But the excitement of the mango doesn't come from the fruit. It's an ancient thing and the reason the mango is so central to all matters of culture is because settlements across most of India had mango groves close by. They were not planted just for fruit. Fruit was one of the benefits. Primarily, the mango grove was infrastructure. It was where all manner of communal activities happened. That's the reason the mango was central. In India's many calendars, spring was the beginning of the new year and the mango was central to all spring festivals too. That's the reason it is so deeply enmeshed in our psyche. Because we've become deracinated and lost connection with all that, now the only discussion is about the fruit" - Sopan Joshi, author, Mangifera Indica; A Biography of the Mango talks to Manjula Narayan about everything from the loss of mango groves to creating flour from mango kernels, and Jesuit and Mughal experiments in horticulture.
49:2119/07/2024
Crossing Borders
"In the Indian-Chinese context, food is one of the battlegrounds. It's often the first thing that triggers parents of the couple. Both Indian and Chinese societies are patriarchal so the girl is considered as property and she is the one who has to face the most difficulties. However, in general, perhaps because of the single-child policy, women in China are quite empowered and their participation in the workforce is much higher than that for women in India. Much as we would like to think that these kinds of relationships break cultural barriers, break stereotypes, new types of stereotypes may also be formed. In the end, though, so much of our differences are individual and not attributable to stereotypes" - Shivaji Das and Yolanda Yu, co-authors of 'Rebels, Traitors, Peacemakers' talk to Manjula Narayan about love and conflict within Indian-Chinese marriages.
01:04:3212/07/2024
Of Jaws 3, Rat Curry and Diamonds on Snake Heads
"Last year, when Anita Mani of Indian Pitta Books contacted me and asked if we could update Snakeman (1989), which was about Rom Whitaker and his exploits with reptiles and about our life after we got married, I had to laugh a little bit. I said, "You know, it's a bit odd for a divorced wife to be singing the praises of her ex husband even though we continue to be colleagues and work very closely together because we are both committed to the projects that we started". Rom said there is a lot to write about and we have done a lot together after the divorce so why don't you write about all that. So the idea was to rewrite parts of Snakeman and then add the diaries of the years after that and up to the present. It's a valuable account of the conservation projects we've been involved with in the last 20 years. It was difficult on many levels. When you've lived with someone and been their wife for 20 years and then you are something else, there's a constant renegotiation of the tone. I was very happy when a friend said you've got the tone right. I still admire Rom - he's done so much for conservation in this country. I felt the follow up should also be written from my perspective. It's probably the most difficult writing I've ever done" - Zai Whitaker, author, Scaling Up talks to Manjula Narayan about her life at Chennai's Crocodile Bank, a crocodile called Jaws III, the Irular tribe, why snakes are important, and the many projects she is juggling at the moment.
49:5804/07/2024
Masala Chai Magic and More
"The history of drinking spices is older than the history of drinking tea, which is more recent in India. Drinking spices in hot water and in milk comes from the Ayurveda. As to when the marriage of these two happened, that's lost in history somewhere.
In the West, people's palates are getting more accustomed to spices so there are more chai spice brands coming about and a lot of the blends are getting richer in spice. About the recipes, I really wanted to come up with ones that were simple to make, simple to bake. The idea was to put spices in everything. When you spice up cakes, they taste amazing to then why not put in the whole concoction of the tea? Masala chai cake makes so much sense," says Mira Manek, author, The Book of Chai that includes a history of chai drinking in India, stories of her own family's migrations from Gujarat to East Africa and the UK, and a range of recipes of regular Indian teatime favourites like chilli cheese toast and bhajias as well as fusion treats like Parle G cheesecake, chai fudge, and of course, Masala chai cake.
44:3327/06/2024
Women, Dalits and Contextualizing the Manusmriti
"The general greater acceptance of reservations in India as compared to the US comes from the acceptance of a karmic world view, the principle that you can't escape the consequences of your actions. Therefore, if your actions have been evil, then it is better to own up and do something to correct it and make amends. You find this idea of the karmic in the Manusmriti too. Yes, there's also a lot in the Manusmriti about jatis and marriage and caste, which is not appealing to a modern mind. But at least 40 smritis have been known to exist. The Manusmriti was just the one chosen by the British when they were looking at Hindu law. The smritis were a way of updating legislature, as it were, with changing times. It wasn't set in stone and there's an awareness within the tradition about this. In the end, we have to apply our judgement to both tradition and modernity."
Arvind Sharma, author, From Fire to Light; Rereading the Manusmrti talks to Manjula Narayan about the amorphousness of religion in India, Ambedkar and Buddhism, the text's pronouncements about women and oppressed castes, and the context in which the Manusmriti was written.
56:4621/06/2024
The social and cultural evolution of the Indian Foreign Service
"The problem of studying history is that we often think of history from today's point of view. When we look at history we must always look at the physical reality that existed at that particular time. The main reality of Nehru's time wasn't the threat from Pakistan or China or India's relations with the Soviet Union or the US. The biggest physical reality was hunger. Food is a strategic commodity as we see even now in Gaza and Ukraine. The Indian people did not create the Indian food crisis. It was a creation of the Allied war effort. Food had to be acquired. Nehru tried very hard to deal with the food security issue and reached out to many countries. India's first diplomats were actually food diplomats. This was the reality of that time" - Kallol Bhattacherjee, author, 'Nehru's First Recruits; The Diplomats Who Built Independent India's Foreign Policy' talks to Manjula Narayan about his compelling study of the Indian Foreign Service, the many individuals from varied backgrounds who formed part of it in the immediate post Independence period, the first evacuation of Indians during an international crisis, the evolution of the idea of Panchsheel, the 1962 war with China and the birth of Indian realism, the role of stenographers in the IFS, the battle of Surabaya that could have had an impact on Indian independence, and the many dynamics that were crashing against each other in the early days of the Indian republic.
01:10:5514/06/2024
Of guilt lit and suffocation by morality
"It's very easy to criticise the BJP government or the Mamta government for censorship. What we don't realise is we are doing the same thing on social media without allowing a certain kind of freedom of speech that is in disagreement with what we feel. But it is disagreement that produces culture! Amartya Sen said we are argumentative Indians. In the India we are in now, we are supposed to be agreementative Indians. We have to always agree with each other. And we have forgotten that consensus will never produce any philosophy." - Sumana Roy, author, 'Provincials; Postcards from the Peripheries' talks to Manjula Narayan about being a proud provincial, the difficulty of swimming against the current, bricolage as a literary device, the use of ossified jargon in academia, English literature departments forsaking beauty for the sociological approach, and the reductionism inherent in labelling writing.
01:04:1507/06/2024
Not a fraction but a whole
"The book is about my story as somebody of mixed heritage. In many ways it's just the story of somebody trying to figure out who they are in a world that likes to separate and divide. the story of the book is about how, through discovering the origins of ideas, through discovering history, I discover a new way of thinking. So then it became easy for me to reconcile my mixed identity with my Englishness. Because actually, to be English is to be mixed. Then suddenly, it made sense. Identity is constantly in flux; it's an process to be engaged with constantly" - Jassa Ahluwalia, author, Both Not Half talks to Manjula Narayan about the experience of being both Punjabi and English in the UK, not changing his name when he became an actor, the many instances of mixed race actors passing for white in old Hollywood, Sikhism, nationalism, feeling a sense of kinship with transpeople, and being determined to change how the entertainment industry in the West represents people of mixed heritage.
01:03:2130/05/2024
Of rose beds and avenues lined with amaltas
"If you look at late 19th century photographs or sketches of Delhi, it is empty and treeless. It's a historical fact that the city's greenery has come with the development of urban settlements... My favourite Delhi garden is Sundar Nursery because there are always new trees to discover there" – Swapna Liddle and Madhulika Liddle, co-authors of Gardens of Delhi talk to Manjula Narayan about the capital's wonderful green oases from Lodhi Garden and Qudsia Bagh to Buddha Jayanti Park and The Garden of Five Senses, among many others.
59:0923/05/2024
Magnetic women, Oxbeas accents, and 1980s Bombay and Delhi
"Social comedy usually has a very short span because it gets dated. For people to laugh at the same silly jokes, for social comedy to survive means that it's hit some enduring spot. I was trying to write a literary novel. It was a take on the Gothic novel and was about the relationship between Paro and Priya. In a way, Paro was Rebecca (in the eponymous novel by Daphe du Maurier), the beautiful and ruthless woman, and Priya was the archetypal counterpart, the woman who is more discreet and strategic perhaps, one who is more cunning and at the same time entranced by the freedom that someone like Paro represents. When it first came out, it got great reviews outside India but the Indian literary establishment spat at it. It took me by surprise how much they hated the book. I realise now that they hated it because it did not fit their idea of the exalted role of English literature. This was not the language of the rulers; it was the language of the users, the people who use English every day. They just didn't get it." - Namita Gokhale talks to Manjula Narayan about her first novel, Paro; Dreams of Passion, that's just been issued as a Penguin Modern Classic
42:4216/05/2024
A promoter and a patron
"As a writer and art critic Rudolf von Leyden was able to mentor artists in a certain capacity but for artists to live, to sustain a life as an artist, they need to sell their work. They need patrons. Because of his corporate job, Rudi was able to support the work of the artists he liked – Ara, Husain, Hebber, Souza, Raza of the Progressive Artists Group" - Reema Desai Gehi, author, 'The Catalyst; Rudolf Von Leyden and India's Artistic Awakening' talks to Manjula Narayan about the man who promoted some of India's most eminent artists of the post Independence era, helped them through tough times and ensured they continued to produce great art.
59:3309/05/2024
The story of a family; the story of a nation
"You can't leave caste behind but you can change religion so why won't you get attracted to another religion for whatever reasons? We are now paying too much attention to religious conversions. There are so many histories which run parallel within this one big history of the country and that's what makes the nation" - Nusrat F Jafri, author, 'This Land We Call Home' weaves the history of her family – her Bhantu maternal great grandparents who became Methodists, her grandparents who were Catholic, and her Shia Muslim parents – with that of India during the colonial period, the post Independence era and right down to the present, to present a view of a nation in flux.
01:08:0403/05/2024
Of rasa, Raja Ravi Varma, and Raza
"In 2010, I totally got wedded to Indian aesthetics. I decided to view art through the lens of the rasa theory. I went back to the Natya Shastra because that is where it all starts. When I look at art, I find a sense of immediacy, through emotion, through rasa. When you look at the work of Manjit Bawa or Swaminathan or Raza, our great modernists, why are they all still so relevant? Raza's way of looking at abstraction came from very Indic principles. From Raja Ravi Varma and Amrita Sher Gill to contemporary artists, there is an unbroken tradition. You see it even in our digital art. In India, the parallel trajectories of tradition, modernity and the contemporary are still continuing. We can't have a break with the past. Our traditions and roots are still present" - Alka Pande, author, '108 Portraits of Indian Modern and Contemporary Art' talks to Manjula Narayan on the Books & Authors podcast about being rooted in Indian aesthetics, new developments in Indian art, the role of the artist as a catalyst and a conscience keeper, museums as the new patrons and more
58:0725/04/2024
Different stories about India
"The mytho-epic imagination is an integral part of the structure of our culture. The religious character of the mytho-epic imagination in the Indian subcontinent provides a shared collective unconscious," Manoj Kumar Jena, editor, 'Ways of Being Indian; Essays on Religion, Gender and Culture' talks to Manjula Narayan about the country's cultural diversity, death rituals, ways of mourning and the shift to public and shared mourning online, changes in matriliny among the Khasis, ideas of masculinity and the male sex worker, the African diaspora in India, and discrimination against queer individuals despite the recognition of other genders in ancient texts among other fascinating subjects that form the focus of this book.
48:1818/04/2024
Of passportism and pseudiscovery
"The history of tourism is intricately connected to colonialism. Travel writing is a direct descendent of colonial exploratory writing and even today, modern tourism has that DNA. Modern tourism, in its internal logic, has a colonial gaze. This idea of "discovering" other places is built into the idea of why we travel" - Shahnaz Habib, author, 'Airplane Mode; A Passive Aggressive History of Travel' talks to Manjula Narayan about everything from wanderlust as consumerism in another form, vacations and the history of work, and medieval Ethiopia to former colonisers sheltering their citizens from their own history of violence and plunder, and how travel is now about the Fear of Missing Out
50:1512/04/2024
Refreshing retellings of traditional tales
"Stories leave a deep impact on how our thinking is shaped. These stories are challenging some very traditional ideas that still exist heavily in society. There is a power in terrible representations. Somehow, we have representations where the disabled woman is a burden to family, to society, and to her partner. As a teenager you think, "Oh, somebody will have to sacrifice a lot to fall in love with me". Then, the more you grow and learn about yourself, you're like, 'What are these ridiculous representations?' It's almost like how we do funny representations of aliens!" - Nidhi Ashok Goyal, editor, 'And They Lived...Ever After; Disabled Women Retell Fairy Tales' talks to Manjula Narayan about the discrimination and simultaneous ungendering that disabled women face, being infantalised, the fatigue of sensitisation, the neglect and isolation that are often everyday experiences, and the great power of stories to change how people think about themselves and others.
58:2904/04/2024
On the complex Indian village
"Villages are complicated entities. There's always a power game. Now, money values have come in and villages are also changing. The lives between the village and the city are starting to merge. I don't know what that means for the country. Villages and cities are both equally important for us. Some kind of continuity is what the village offers. People who live in villages and don't want to move or change may have something to tell us in the long run" - Mamang Dai, author, 'In Search of the Indian Village', talks to Manjula Narayan about the powerful stories of OV Vijayan and Mahashweta Devi, the writings of Gandhi, Nehru and Ambedkar on rural settlements, and the place of the village in the Indian imagination on the Books & Authors podcast.
39:0928/03/2024
No last words in history
"While we must read histories produced by historians who have different perspectives on the past, it is very important not to get trapped in any particular ideological framework. For me, it is important to move beyond them" - Upinder Singh, author, 'A History of Ancient and Early Medieval India', talks to Manjula Narayan on the Books & Authors podcast on everything from the implausibility of the Aryan invasion theory and the place of forests and their inhabitants in the political history of ancient India to the Harappan script, war elephants, the faulty periodization of Indian history and more.
52:2221/03/2024
A word to the wise
"Strangers matter online. We tend to put a lot of weight on reviews. But it is difficult to tell which ones are fake and which are not. Computer scientists are still working on it. But they have figured out certain characteristics of fake reviews – like the use of lots of exclamation marks and quotation marks" - Abhishek Borah, author, Mine Your Language, talks to Manjula Narayan about the influence of language on business, how to tell if an individual is a potential loan defaulter just from the words he uses, the communication patterns of charismatic leaders, how corporates should deal with social media firestorms, and the surprising impact of expletives in online reviews, among other interesting things!
52:5314/03/2024
Of carpets and memories
I'm not an expert but I am a connoisseur and most of the carpets in this book are part of my collection. Carpets harbour a lot of stories but we seldom read about them because books on carpets usually focus on things like the knots used and how they were made. My idea was to keep the stories" - Jon Westborg, author, 'Of Carpets and Carpetwallahs' talks to Manjula Narayan about talims and carpet designs, the history of carpet weaving in the subcontinent, which, apparently, stretches back to 2C BCE, jail carpets in the colonial period, the carpet of a Norwegian who served as a policeman in Belgaum in colonial India, and the genius Kashmiri carpetwallah, the late Sayeed Ali, who could tell the age and province of origin just by looking at a Persian carpet
40:1309/03/2024
Sex and the Indian woman: It's complicated
"Every culture's sexual values get imbued into all parts of their thinking, not just into how they think about the bedroom. Under patriarchy, mothers are given this special role of restricting their daughters as sexuality is tied up with the sense of social pride or izzat – the mother's value as a mother, within the family, is partly judged on her daughter's gender performance. I don't blame mothers for doing this because, in their minds, their sense of identity is dependent on their daughters' behaviour. So they groom their daughters accordingly. There is also envy between women of different generations."
-Amrita Narayanan, psychoanalyst and author, 'Women's Sexuality and Modern India; In a Rapture of Distress' talks to Manjula Narayan about rejecting victimhood, the universal nature of women's sexual oppression, the difficulty in understanding different sexual tastes, endurance as a virtue, and identifying with myths, among other things
53:0629/02/2024
Big tech, profit, loss, and AI
"AI doesn't create; it reproduces. AI doesn't know what is good or bad; even in art, it doesn't know. People want to know whether we'll reach a level where AI is as smart as we are. The kids are always asking me that. We won't reach that level the way we 're going because the intuition is just not there" - Appupen, co-author of the graphic novel, 'Dream Machine; AI and the REAL World' talks to Manjula Narayan about collaborating on this book with French scientist and CEO of an AI start-up, Laurent Daudet, AI's huge energy needs, how, since all the big tech is owned by corporates instead of colleges, labs or government set-ups, the focus is just about making profit and not scientific advancement, and how vast quantities of our information is going towards training AI.
47:2922/02/2024
Detective fiction and the search for justice
Crime fiction seems to have a steady presence because of the way in which it is able to address contemporary issues of law and order relating also to the absence of justice, which is a key problem we all face. The attempt is to make amends, sometimes even outside the system, and to deliver justice. That's why, perhaps, the figure of the detective continues to fascinate" - Tarun K Saint, editor, 'The Hachette Book of Indian Detective Fiction Vols 1 & 2' talks to Manjula Narayan about curating anthologies, the emergence of detective fiction informed by feminist consciousness, how writers from the Indian subcontinent contextualise the methods of the classic whodunit and take it beyond the formulaic.
50:2416/02/2024
By hook or by book
"The thrill of the hunt is what fuels all collecting probably and it's certainly so for book collecting. But here the interest is bibliographical so there's a scholarly component to it as well. It's a very thrilling experience to see that you are a part of a long tradition of book collecting and of a tradition of transactions between dealers and collectors that's been going on for three or four centuries." - Pradeep Sebastian, author, An Inky Parade; Tales for Bibliophiles, talks to Manjula Narayan about his passion for collecting antiquarian books, the passions that drive the international trade, and the great collectors and their obsessions
01:07:1408/02/2024
A Himalayan feast
Like the pizza, momos are traditional, ethnic, and are loved worldwide" - Rohini Rana, author, 'The Nepal Cookbook; 108 Regional Recipes', talks to Manjula Narayan about the magic of eating with your fingers, the humble potato, magical momos in their many avatars, the flavours of fermentation and smoking, and the subtility and great range of Nepal's cuisine.
59:1201/02/2024
Birds, bees, blinding fog and scorching sunshine
"Dr Salim Ali told me, if you're not a scientist, don't show off your secondhand scientific knowledge. Just write simply and share that. So that's what I've done" - Bulbul Sharma, author, 'Sunbirds in the Morning, Grey Hornbills at Dusk' talks to Manjula Narayan about the variety of birds and trees and the dramatic change of the seasons in the capital city.
59:4125/01/2024
Journey to the End of the Empire
"I've heard its changed but when I was first in Tibetan regions, it was illegal to have a photo of the Dalai Lama. There's a lot of propaganda against the Dalai Lama and other lamas in China and I've actually heard Tibetan people there parroting that propaganda. There's also tremendous ecological damage through mining, the building of large dams and other forms of destructive resource extraction. It's not happening only in Tibet. I am trying to communicate a template of what we seem to be witnessing all across the world. I did feel at times that I was physically being pummeled by what I was observing" - Scott Ezell, author, 'Journey to the End of the Empire; In China Along the Edge of Tibet' talks to Manjula Narayan about travelling through Tibet, the vast changes taking place there, the world's move towards uniformity and extreme ecological degradation in the Anthropocene and how we are all implicated.
48:1518/01/2024
Keepers of the sacred fire
"The community of corpse burners or Doms take pride in their ability to give moksh but it's also a way of justifying their place in a society that otherwise shuns them, humiliates them and treats them as untouchables. They believe they have religious capital. But at the end of the day, there are no privileged caste people who want to do this job. That's why the Doms are continuing to do this job and that's why they are not able to break through the caste barrier" - Radhika Iyengar, author, Fire on the Ganges talks to Manjula Narayan about her book that documents the customs, harrowing work and lives of the keepers of the sacred fire, the Doms of Varanasi
53:4311/01/2024
The mad genius within the flawed cop
I keep thinking of all the other writers who also have these sorts of protagonists. The cops of Karen Slaughter, Ian Rankin and Peter James are not exactly happy guys who are at peace with the world; their relationships are in shambles; they are eccentric. It's probably like taking the mad genius idea and remoulding it to fit the flawed cop. I know this character, Borei Gowda, so well; I know what he can do and what he can't do. His own flaws allow him to see the world with a certain cynicism. But then every cynic is maybe also a naive idealist. In many ways, Bangalore and Gowda are synonymous with each other" - Anita Nair, author, Hot Stage, talks to Manjula Narayan about writing a police procedural series, how personal agendas often drive even political crimes, and creating believable characters with familiar tics and hypocrisies
40:3304/01/2024
The good poets society
"Poetry is not instant coffee; that is undrinkable. What is slow brewed coffee or a tea ceremony? Everything is slow, which means you can appreciate the nuances of the sounds, the cadence of the language, the content of the poems. The good young poets and the good older poets are not very dissimilar. That's because the focus of these poets is grounded on the same things and measured on the same framework: originality of thought, width of creativity, good grammar and a cogent argument. These are the elements that make good writing." - Sudeep Sen, editor, 'Converse; Contemporary English Poetry by Indians' talks to Manjula Narayan about writing in English, poetry as a tough space, attempting to build a community of poets, and the effort that goes into putting together a good anthology.
01:03:1615/12/2023
Lessons from Rajasthan's camel herders
"Within Rajasthan's Raika culture, camels are raised in a system that's cruelty free - the calves are not separated from their mothers, camels walk around and choose their own diets and have a close relationship with humans. It's an alternative model of livestock and food production that has great value. The Raika demonstrate a way of keeping animals that's in tune with the environment and has high animal welfare standards. It should be a model for the rest of the world. Slowly, we are getting to the stage where people are recognising this.
Modern India's thinking about livestock needs to be decolonised because India's traditional livestock keeping systems are a treasure. There's enormous heritage value in them and this intangible heritage also creates wealth and has a lot of commercial potential. What's missing is an appreciation of the value of this heritage. I don't regret that I've been here for the last 30 years." - Ilse Kohler-Rollefson, author, Camel Karma talks to Manjula Narayan about her work with the camel herders of Rajasthan, the great health benefits of milk from free-range camels, and why sustainable methods of livestock farming make more sense.
54:1307/12/2023
The trajectories of Buddhism in modern India
"Nehru and Ambedkar represented two very different visions of the way Buddhism could be imagined. Buddhism is a full-fledged revolution for Ambedkar and Nehru's government was not comfortable with that sort of vision of Buddhism.
[Similarly] there is a fracture between the Ambedkarite vision of Buddhism and SN Goenka's vision, in which you can be a Hindu or Christian and still practise Vipassana. It unfolds in a wider ecumenical, secularised idea of what a modern India could be like, and I think those two trajectories are really difficult to reconcile.
In its totality, what I really wanted to do was paint a picture of all walks of Buddhist life -- the lives of labourers who were inspired to convert to Buddhism, of intellectuals, of both Sanatan Hindus, who had a certain vision of Buddhism, as well as liberal, more secular-minded Hindus, of progressives, Leftists and Right Wing figures... I wanted to understand the whole composite picture of what Buddhism looked like during this broader period of time."
01:00:3230/11/2023
The stuff of food fantasies
"In our family, whenever anyone goes out, they don't ask him, 'What did you see?' The first question is 'What did you eat?' So, food is paramount. In my childhood, if ever I wanted to have good food at home, I'd ask my father for it. Funnily enough, it was the men in the family who took on that role. My father is a very passionate cook. I felt that there should be some place where his recipes are documented because everyone in the family has memories associated with his food" - Shreeparna Khaitan, author, 'Bapu's Curries' talks about her father lawyer Umesh Khaitan's culinary repertoire that includes traditional Marwari dishes and fantastic fusion ideas even as co-author Surbhi Anand reveals plans to bring out another volume for the many great dishes that didn't make it to this one. From Rajasthani ker sangri ka saag to delicious santare ka jhol (soupy orange curry) and gucchi biryani (biryani with Kashmiri morels), the food ideas in this volume are both delightful and surprising.
48:4823/11/2023
The battle for your mind
"Hindutva pop stars are trying to make hate entertaining and so normalized that people don't realise they are consuming propaganda. They are changing your life through their work and yet most know very little about them" - Kunal Purohit, author, 'H-Pop; The Secretive World of Hindutva Pop Stars' follows a singer, a poet and a journalist-spiritual coach to understand polarisation, points of radicalisation, the Hindutva plus bloc, and why it's necessary to understand the dominant political ideology
01:06:4217/11/2023