Jessica Medina went to law school thinking she would work for the government and change the world for the better. But during her 2L year at Columbia Law School, she gave birth to twins and became a single mom. Biglaw seemed the inevitable and obviously correct choice for her if she wanted her family to have a good life. But after eight years in Biglaw, Jessica decided not to put herself up for partner and instead, to pursue a different career—which wasn't an easy decision. In this episode, I'm sharing the first half of our conversation, where she talks about how she ended up in law school, and then Biglaw, and why she decided to leave. Show notes at formerlawyer.com/059.

Hobbies and side hustles can seem like a distraction when you're on the law firm treadmill. But cultivating interests outside the law is often the ticket to figuring out what you really want to do career-wise. In this episode, Helynn Nelson shares about becoming a level 3 sommelier—and how it helped her figure out that she wanted to leave the law, and what she wanted to look for next. Show notes at formerlawyer.com/058.

Have you ever looked at the people more senior than you at your firm, the partners and senior associates, and thought, "I don't want your life!" So did today's guest, Helynn Nelson. Helynn landed a coveted employment litigation associate role in Biglaw, but the lifestyle of a Biglaw lawyer was simply not how she imagined spending the rest of her working life. When she got pregnant with her first daughter, she decided to make some big changes that ultimately led her to her current role as an HR professional at Google. Show notes at formerlawyer.com/057.

Who am I if I'm not a lawyer? My guest today, former lawyer Meghan Smith, shares about her own journey from big firm lawyer, to seemingly perfect job in an insurance firm, to her current gig as a joy coach for high-achieving moms. Along the way, one of the most significant questions that Meghan had to grapple with was: who am I if I'm not an intellectual superstar? Today she's sharing about how she confronted this question and found her way to a career that's even more fulfilling than she expected.

Do you think that you're too old to change careers and quit law? My guest today, Hector Chavez, decided to make the move from law to nursing right before his 40th birthday. He knew he wasn't happy with his legal career. But he worried that starting over at 40 was foolish. Today he's sharing about how his worries were totally unfounded and why you shouldn't let the imaginary barrier of age stop you from making a career change that's right for you. Show notes at formerlawyer.com/055.

What do you do when you realize none of your strengths are rewarded in Biglaw—and many of your strengths are actually considered weaknesses? Hear how Alex Su went from a top law school to a top Biglaw firm, realized it wasn't for him, found his way into legal tech sales, and learned some important lessons on the way. Full show notes at formerlawyer.com/054.

Annie Little worked as a commercial lending and real estate lawyer for 7 years before allowing herself to consider the possibility that there was a better path for her. In this conversation, we talk about how she made the transition to running her own lawyer career coaching business, why moving towards something is so much more hopeful and empowering than running away from something else, how Annie busted through some limiting beliefs about what smart, capable women should do when it comes to career and family, and some of the unique challenges lawyers face when it comes to their identity. Show notes at formerlawyer.com/053.

This week I'm reflecting on the one-year anniversary of The Former Lawyer Podcast! I'm sharing some of what I've learned this year, and how you can apply these lessons in your own situation. The number one thing that I have learned in this last year is: don't wait until you feel ready. When I started this podcast a year ago, I knew virtually nothing about podcasting or online business. I know a lot more now, but I'm not sure that even now I would say that I "feel ready" (whatever that means!). So today I'm sharing why I don't think you should wait until you're "ready" in order to take steps towards what you want. Full show notes at formerlawyer.com/052.

We know that the mental health stats regarding lawyers are grim, but what is it really like to experience anxiety and panic as a lawyer? In this conversation (the first of two parts), Annie Little and I take a deep dive into our own experiences with generalized anxiety disorder and panic disorder. Annie has worked as a lawyer career coach for the last 7 years, and before that, practiced commercial lending and real estate law for 7 years. Show notes at formerlawyer.com/051.

Is quitting law without another job lined up a bad idea? When you're super miserable as a lawyer, you often find yourself wondering: can I just quit? My guest on today's podcast, Andrea Yang, did just that. After seven years as a lawyer, she quit her job and moved back in with her parents with no idea what she would do next. Hear how she found her way into and out of law. Show notes at formerlawyer.com/050.

Law is my second career—can I still leave? A lot of lawyers ask themselves this question. In this episode, Mary Eberle shares all about how she left the law, even though it was her second career, and even though she had been made a shareholder at her law firm! Hear how Mary found her way to her current career as a genetic genealogist and her advice to anyone who feels stuck in an unfulfilling legal career. Full show notes and all the links at formerlawyer.com/049.

In the second half of our conversation, Lauren Bernadett shares about the challenges she faced leaving her high-paying law firm job as a single person, trying to figure out what was next when she didn't have a "dream job" in mind, why what she's gained from leaving the law far outweighs what she's lost, and what she learned from listening to this podcast! Show notes at formerlawyer.com/048.

Lauren Bernadett spent a lot of time negotiating a full-ride scholarship to law school so that she wouldn't find herself trapped in a firm job that she hated. Five years in, she realized that despite her careful planning, she was still at a firm and felt stuck. In the first half of our conversation, hear how Lauren ended up in law school, how she figured out how to go debt free, and the moment that she realized that, despite her best efforts, she still felt stuck.

Are you worried that quitting your job or leaving the law entirely means that you're a quitter? Most lawyers think that quitting things is bad and wrong. On episode 046, I'm sharing why it's okay to be a quitter, and why it could be the best thing for your career and your life.

On episode 045, we're tackling another myth that keeps lawyers stuck: the sunk costs fallacy. Have you ever thought, "If I leave my job/the law, I'll be wasting all the time and money I spent becoming a lawyer!" Of course you have, because literally every lawyer thinks this at some point (or daily). In this episode, I talk about how to reframe your thoughts about waste when it comes to your career so that you have a better chance of creating a career and life that you love. Free First Steps To Leaving The Law Guide—> formerlawyer.com/guide Career Clarity Intensive Live Workshop—> formerlawyer.com/live

On episode 044 of the podcast, I'm talking about another myth that keeps lawyers stuck in jobs they hate: that there's something wrong with them because they don't like their job. There are so many lawyers out there who think that not liking their job is an indication of some kind of failure on their part. It's not. Listen in to hear about my experience with this phenomenon and why it's so insidious. Download the free guide, First Steps To Leaving The Law—> formerlawyer.com/guide Register for the Career Clarity Intensive Live Workshop—> formerlawyer.com/live

On episode 43 of the podcast, we're kicking off a series where we'll be talking about some of the myths that keep lawyers stuck in jobs they hate. This week: the myth of the perfect next step. Spoiler alert: there is no perfect next step! Listen in to hear why that's a good thing.

Have you found yourself crying in your office, or on the way to the office, or when working at home? Crying because of your job is weirdly normalized in the legal profession. In episode 042 of the podcast, I'm talking about why your job should not make you cry. Join the next cohort of the Collaborative that starts June 1—> formerlawyer.com/collab

In episode 041 of the podcast, I'm sharing why I think Biglaw is inhospitable to human life (spicy!), and why I think it's particularly important for women in Biglaw to figure out what they want from their careers. If you want to be the first to hear all the spicy takes I have about legal practice, join my email list by downloading the First Steps To Leaving The Law guide at formerlawyer.com/guide.

In episode 040 of the podcast, I'm sharing two reasons that I'll be doing things a little differently on the podcast for a bit, and why it's important to remember that there are some things that you can't think your way through.

In Episode 039 of The Former Lawyer Podcast, I’m sharing the second half of my conversation with Sarah Rutledge Fischer. (You can listen to part 1 here.) Sarah is an artist and art teacher. She spent 3 1/2 years in biglaw before left and found her way to her current career as an artist.  In the second half of our conversation, Sarah shares about: The shame she felt during her biglaw experience; Feeling like there was something fundamentally wrong with her as a person because she wasn’t finding the right fit in her firm; The disturbing parallels between biglaw and abusive interpersonal relationships; The weirdness of working with her firm’s in-house career counselor; The thrill of winning asylum for her pro bono client the day before she left the firm for good; How an unexpected opportunity for her husband convinced them to uproot and move from California to the gulf coast of Alabama, closer to family; Thinking that she would return to the practice of law eventually, and finally admitting to herself that she just didn’t want to; Deciding to pursue a writing career, and how her “shame-based achievement-seeking lawyer hat” worked against her; Why being put in charge of the weekly figure-drawing class she had begun attending was helpful in moving her towards her new career (perhaps not for the reason that you might think);  Her “cartoon hammer on the head” moment when she realized that her art could be her next career; Why she thinks “follow your curiosity” is much better advice than “follow your passion”; How she still has to actively work to combat the grind mentality of biglaw in her life now; Why she works to cultivate compassion for her former self; and much more! Show Notes: Free First Steps guide—> formerlawyer.com/guide Former Lawyer Fundamentals—> formerlawyer.com/fundamentals Former Lawyer Collaborative—> formerlawyer.com/collab Connect with Sarah: [email protected]

In Episode 038, I’m sharing the first half of my conversation with Sarah Rutledge Fischer. (Look out for part 2 next week! We covered so many important themes, I’ve split our conversation into two episodes.) Sarah is an artist and art teacher. She spent 3 1/2 years in biglaw before left and found her way to her current career as an artist. In today’s episode, we talk about lots of things, including her struggles with depression and the inhumane environment of many big law firms. This is an important conversation and I can’t wait for you to hear it. In the first half of our conversation, Sarah shares about: Loving art from a young age, but never allowing herself to consider it as a career possibility; Her winding path to law school; Why she took for granted the human element in her pre-law school jobs that ended up being missing from her work as a lawyer; Why she found her law school to have less of a feeling of grim despair than most; How she ended up in biglaw even though it did not align with her interests; Why the law firm track is “intoxicating” and “disorienting”; Knowing that the firm wasn’t a right fit for her from right off the bat, but feeling trapped; Experiencing intense depression while in biglaw, and not even realizing that was what was happening at first; Feeling trapped by the mindset in the legal profession and by maintaining the life she and her husband had established; Navigating biglaw as a newly pregnant woman who didn’t want to get sidelined, but also was desperate to get out; A story that will be familiar to anyone out there who knows the reputation of biglaw firms when it comes to quietly letting people go; Important reminders for anyone struggling with depression; and much more! Show Notes: Join a badass group of women in a confidential community where you can explore other career options and get answers to your burning career questions.—> formerlawyer.com/collab Connect with Sarah: [email protected] instagram.com/sarahrutledgefischer  facebook.com/sarahrutledgefischer

In Episode 037 of The Former Lawyer Podcast, I’m sharing my conversation with Dr. Jan Newman. Jan is a licensed clinical psychologist and executive coach who works with multi-passionate high achievers who want to level up their lives. She is a published author and researcher and a frequent speaker on topics related to emotional intelligence, interpersonal effectiveness, and psychological flexibility.  In her former life, she was an intellectual property attorney in Biglaw. In this conversation, Jan shares about: Going to law school because people told her she was good at persuading people; Hearing her family talk about law being a prestigious profession, and telling her that she would make a good lawyer (although her mom vehemently denies that this happened!); Why she thinks the legal profession can’t live up to its hype; Deciding she was going to leave the law before she actually left (and what that means); Realizing her first day of law school that it was a mistake; The moment that she realized law was not for her (and also that everyone she worked with had lost their minds); Why, after she decided she was going to leave the law, she lateraled from her regional law firm to biglaw; Approaching her decision to leave law like a series of experiments; Realizing she was getting hooked by the money in biglaw (and what she did about it); Applying to psychology PhD programs twice before she actually left biglaw; How she uses her background as a lawyer in her psychology practice now; The three books she recommends all lawyers read; Why unhappy lawyers often believe they can think their way out of their problems (and why they’re wrong); and much more!  Show Notes: Free First Steps to Leaving the Law guide—> formerlawyer.com/guide Apply to secure your spot in the Former Lawyer Collaborative application queue—> formerlawyer.com/collab Books Jan mentioned in this episode: Happiness Trap

We're doing things a little differently on today's episode. It's my first solo episode since all the way back in episode 001, when I shared a little bit about my own journey out of the law.⁠ ⁠ With everything that's happening with the COVID-19 pandemic, I wanted to share a few thoughts that I hope are helpful for those of you who aren't happy in your job right now.⁠ ⁠ In the episode, I share four things that I think unhappy lawyers need to know right now. ⁠

In Episode 035 of The Former Lawyer Podcast, I’m sharing my conversation with Tai Dixon. Tai left legal practice for the the world of non-profit leadership, and last year, opened her own consulting practice where she specializes in workplace culture and liberatory leadership.  In this conversation, Tai shares about: How growing up with a parent who was a lawyer affected her decision to go to law school; Believing that becoming a doctor or a lawyer was the best way to contribute to society; Detouring from her path to law school to teach with Teach For America because she wanted to make a difference; Loving teaching, but being afraid to love it because she thought she would regret not going to law school; Climbing the rungs of the ladder to a legal career without asking herself whether she actually wanted to be there; Well-meaning family and friends reacting much more positively to her decision to be a lawyer than her choice to teach for two years with TFA; Going to law school and getting a biglaw job because she thought that’s what she should do to achieve her goals; Quickly realizing that firm life was not for her, but not being willing to make a move right away; How the downturn in 2008 made her feel like she should just be happy to have a legal job; Knowing that legal practice wasn’t for her because her firm job was about as good as it could be, and she still wasn’t happy; Realizing that it took a lot of work to get to a place where she felt stuck; Getting a great review, being asked at the end if she was happy, and bursting into tears; Realizing that no amount of good work and checking the boxes was going to make her happy doing what she was doing; Taking a huge pay cut to move into a field she was more passionate about; The three types of reactions from lawyers at her firm when she announced she was leaving; Why her fears about money came from the narrative of law practice; How she measures success now; and much more!  Show Notes: Free First Steps to Leaving the Law guide—> formerlawyer.com/guide Connect with Tai on Instagram or

In Episode 034 of The Former Lawyer Podcast, I’m sharing my conversation with Tyler and April Roberts. Tyler, a former lawyer, and his wife April, who has a background in marketing, co-founded NOMOS Marketing, a marketing agency for lawyers. In this conversation, Tyler & April share about: What it’s like to be the spouse of a law student; How April found out that Tyler had passed the bar before he did; Why even before Tyler started law school, they didn’t plan on him practicing law forever; How a personal tragedy set Tyler on the path to law school out of a desire to help others; How they switched their thinking about paying off Tyler’s law school loans; How the idea for their business grew organically from the jobs they were already doing (lawyering and marketing); What it’s like to work full-time with your spouse; How your background as a lawyer can both help you and hold you back; How working for an entrepreneur with a legal background helped Tyler see how his law degree could be used in innovative ways; How to communicate with your non-lawyer spouse about why you’re unhappy as a lawyer; How they help lawyers differentiate themselves; Their best advice for lawyers who don’t love their jobs; and much more!  Show Notes: The doors to the Former Lawyer Collaborative are open through April 1st! The Collaborative is my support community for high-achieving woman in legal practice who are interested in exploring other career options. Join here—> formerlawyer.com/collab Connect with Tyler and April’s business, NOMOS Marketing, on the website, Instagram, or Facebook

In Episode 033 of The Former Lawyer Podcast, I’m sharing my conversation with Gaby Abrams. Gaby left legal practice five years ago and opened an online stationery shop on Etsy, Casa Confetti. In this conversation, Gaby shares about: Thinking all through college she would head to med school, and then deciding to go to law school instead; Going to law school thinking that you can do anything with a law degree (and why she thinks that was misguided); Her dad, who was a litigator, telling her “don’t be a lawyer, whatever you do!”, and why she didn’t listen; Deciding very early on that she didn’t want to be a lawyer, and going into financial recruiting after law school; What listening to her body has to do with deciding not to practice law; Making the decision to practice immigration law for a time so that she would never think “what if” about pursuing legal practice; How she ended up starting her stationery business on Etsy in order to bridge from her firm job to whatever she would end up doing next during her unpaid maternity leave; How she realized that her stationery business could actually be her full-time career after making over $150k in her first two years in business; How she flipped the way she thought about intelligence; One of the biggest myths she thinks people believe about lawyers and their success in other careers; and much more!  Show Notes: The doors to the Former Lawyer Collaborative are open! The Collaborative is my support community for high-achieving woman in legal practice who are interested in exploring other career options. Join here—> formerlawyer.com/collab Connect with Gaby on Instagram, her website, or by email, or with Casa Confetti on the website or

In Episode 032 of The Former Lawyer Podcast, I’m sharing my conversation with Shunta Grant. Shunta left legal practice in 2015 to run her then side-hustle, Because of Zoe Designs, full-time. She has since started a second business teaching women how to build businesses on the other side of busy, and is launching a third business, the Best Today™ Brand, to help all women learn how to build lives on the other side of busy. In this conversation, Shunta shares about: Going to a meeting in high school that was supposed to be for students interested in student council that turned out to be a meeting for mock trial, and discovering she loved mock trial and was great at it; Applying to college thinking that she was going to be pre-med, and why she chose law school instead; Having a “checklist” of all the things that she should accomplish in law school as a high achiever; How she grew to dislike her law firm job so much that when Sunday evening would roll around, she could feel the dread creeping in; How missing a coworker’s wedding and being forced to work on a planned trip was the last straw for her; The exact moment she turned to her husband and told him she was going to quit; How she knew that going to another law firm wouldn’t fix the problem; Why she’s so passionate about the idea that YOU get to choose what to do with YOUR life; How she started making hair bows for her daughter while still working at the law firm and turned it into a business, Because of Zoe Designs; Why you can be both logical and creative (and don’t have to choose); Leaving her law firm to run Because of Zoe full-time; How her work with Because of Zoe led to a second business helping women grow their own businesses and a podcast, the Business, Life, and Joy Podcast; How her work with women on their businesses has now transitioned into working with all women to help them get clear on what they want and show up as their best; Why she loves Mondays now; How and why she created her newest product, the Best Today™ Guide; and much more!  Show Notes: Interested in my support community for high-achieving woman in their first decade-ish of legal practice? Join the waitlist so you don’t miss the opportunity to join as a Founding Member—> formerlawyer.com/waitlist Free on-demand 5-Day Career Clarity Bootcamp—>

In Episode 031 of The Former Lawyer Podcast, I’m sharing my conversation with Adam Kol. Adam practiced tax law before leaving to become a couples financial counselor. In this conversation, Adam shares about: The way that the expectations of others drove him to law school; Quitting his tax lawyer job at Deloitte to spend a year as an animal activist supported by his savings; Working at a non-profit as a lawyer supporting initiatives to combat homelessness; Why he started coaching people as a side hustle; How his life got out of balance and how he identified what needed to change; How getting laid off spurred him to focus on his coaching practice full-time; Stumbling into the niche of couples financial counseling; Seeing his clients’ lives change when they are able to communicate about money and problem-solve regarding their money together; Dealing with loved ones’ disappointment and anger about leaving his legal career; His advice on how to start a conversation about money for lawyers who have a partner and are wanting to make a career change; and much more!  Show Notes: Connect with Adam on his website, LinkedIn, Instagram, or listen to his podcast, The Equal Partners Podcast

In Episode 030 of The Former Lawyer Podcast, I’m sharing the second half of my conversation with Amy DuVall. (I shared the first half of our conversation last week in episode 029!)  After starting out in private practice, Amy spent 20 years as a lawyer and lobbyist doing environmental work in Washington D.C. In March 2018, she left that behind to study the pastry arts and open her baking business, From Politics to Pastry. In the second half of our conversation, Amy shares about: How she handled her position being changed from a lawyer to a non-lawyer position and being instructed that she couldn’t hold herself out as a lawyer anymore; How her J.D. was her “secret weapon” during her lobbying days; Spending 10 years working to pass the biggest environmental bill in 25 years, succeeding, and then being hit like a ton of bricks by the question: “What’s next?”; Going to therapy and realizing that she should have gone sooner; Resisting the idea that she had anxiety because she loved what she was doing; Finally accepting that she had a significant problem with anxiety that was taking a toll on her body; How loving the substance of the work but hating the game impacted her, and why you need to figure out which you prefer; Realizing in therapy how being always on call and never having time for creative pursuits had drained her; How a simple exercise her therapist asked her to do resulted in an a-ha moment that sent her down the path of baking as a career; What she did when the culinary school she enrolled in closed with only 12-hours’ notice 3 months before she was supposed to start a pastry arts program; How she went from having no plans to start her own business to starting her own small bakery business, From Politics to Pastry; How she went from taking classes at Sur La Table to teaching them; Why you should never say never; and much more!

In Episode 029 of The Former Lawyer Podcast, I’m sharing the first half of my conversation with Amy DuVall. (We talked about so many important things and I couldn’t bear to cut any of it, so I’ll share the second half next week!)  After starting out in private practice, Amy spent 20 years as a lawyer and lobbyist doing environmental work in Washington D.C. In March 2018, she left that behind to study the pastry arts and open her baking business, From Politics to Pastry. In the first half of our conversation, Amy shares about: How she ended up as a lobbyist; Why becoming a lawyer was simply a means to an end for her; What inspired her to pursue a career as an environmental lobbyist; Why she doesn’t regret going to law school; How she learned more than once that she liked the substance of legal work but not the game; What to do when you really like certain parts of your job as a lawyer, but really hate other parts; What she did when she realized she didn’t want the brass ring of partnership she’d been taught to chase after; Her job changing overnight from a lawyer to a non-lawyer position; and much more!  Show Notes: First Steps to Leaving the Law Guide—> formerlawyer.com/guide Former Lawyer Fundamentals—> formerlawyer.com/fundamentals Connect with Amy on her website or on Instagram

In Episode 028 of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah talks with Matt Wheat, a single dad who left the law to become a firefighter. Matt spent most of his legal career in various public interest law jobs. While he was still practicing law, Matt started serving as a volunteer firefighter, fell in love with firefighting, and ultimately left legal practice to make it his full-time career. In this conversation, Matt shares about: Being “consumed” by injustice growing up, which led him to law school; The impact that the recession in the aughts had on his rural legal job market; Becoming somewhat disenchanted with the legal system as a result of his public interest work; Feeling like something was missing from his life, which led him to become a volunteer firefighter; Falling in love with firefighting, and what he loves most about it; Dealing with his parents’ reaction to his decision to leave the law after they supported him to get there; The misconceptions non-lawyers have about lawyers’ finances; Why it was worth it to take a paycut to leave, even though he’s a single parent; Why he thinks you should only go to law school if you’re motivated by more than just money; and much more!  Show Notes: The Former Lawyer Resource Vault—> formerlawyer.vipmembervault.com Connect with Matt by email 

In Episode 027 of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah talks with Erin Conlon. Erin graduated from law school and landed her dream job with a plaintiff-side class action firm, only to lose her job as a result of the recession in the late 2000s. She worked on a political campaign, started performing comedy, and ultimately landed in biglaw doing electronic discovery work. She spent almost a decade as Discovery Counsel before making the leap to life and executive coaching. Erin describes herself as a warrior for possibility. In this conversation, Erin shares about: Being told as a kid that she should become a lawyer and just sort of ending up on that path; Getting admitted to a highly ranked school and following the path of least resistance there; How generational expectations regarding children’s career success drove her decision-making (and drives many of us); Why she disagrees with the idea that “you can do anything with a law degree;” How she got started in comedy; How she dealt with the disappointment of ending up in electronic discovery after losing her litigation job as a result of the recession; Why she thinks it was a mistake to keep trying to get back to the kind of lawyer job that she thought she wanted; The moment when she realized she needed to leave the law; Struggling with her identity as a lawyer; What most high achievers actually end up working on when they start working on their career satisfaction; and much more!  Show Notes: Enroll in the 8 week group program—> formerlawyer.com/group Connect with Erin on her website or Instagram

In Episode 026 of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah talks with Toya Gavin. Toya practiced law for over 10 years, eventually opening her own practice, before finding herself struggling with severe depression. After reexamining her life and her career goals, she started her company, Legally Bold, where she coaches and consults with women with J.D.s who are dissatisfied in their careers or who are trying to transform their side hustles into full-time careers. In this conversation, Toya shares about: Why the transition from an undergrad engineering major to law school was so jarring; How most law students think they’re going to snag a highly paid job, but the numbers reveal otherwise; Why she expected to enjoy legal practice, even though she didn’t love the law school environment; What practice she turned to when she realized that she didn’t like patent law (the obvious choice for her as an engineer); What she loved about running her own practice (that had nothing to do with legal work); How her “whole life shifted” when she experienced what was eventually diagnosed as clinical depression; The extremely high rates of depression, anxiety, and substance abuse amongst lawyers; Why her best friend had to tell her that what she was experiencing was not normal before she realized she should get help; Why being high-functioning and a lawyer poses significant obstacles to people getting help for mental health issues; Why everyone should see a therapist; How Legally Bold grew from what she learned through her own experience of depression and the knowledge that many lawyers experience the same;  and much more!  Show Notes: Enroll in 8 Weeks to an Exit Plan—> formerlawyer.com/group Connect with Toya on her website, Instagram, or LinkedIn

In Episode 025 of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah talks with Risa Weaver-Enion. Risa graduated from Duke Law School and worked a handful of jobs in the legal industry while she and her husband moved around the country for his job. Five years ago, Risa started her own event and wedding planning company, Risa James Events, as a side hustle, and in 2017, she transitioned to running her business full-time.  In this conversation, Risa shares about: Why she’s half-serious when she says she went to law school out of spite (you do not want to miss this story!); How she hated all the legal classes she took in undergrad and was convinced she shouldn’t go to law school; What receiving a breakup letter by FedEx has to do with her changing her mind and deciding to go to law school; Hating law school as soon as it started and seriously considering dropping out; Why she turned down an offer from her 2L summer firm; Quitting her first job as a lawyer after only one month; Where she got the idea to pursue event planning, and how she moved into that market; What made her decide to take her event and wedding planning side hustle full-time; Why she didn’t care what people thought when she decided not to be a lawyer anymore, and why she doesn’t think becoming a lawyer was a waste; and much more!  Show Notes: Enroll in 8 Weeks to an Exit Plan—> formerlawyer.com/group Connect with Risa on her website, Instagram, Facebook, Pinterest, or LinkedIn

In Episode 024 of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah talks with Katie Aldrich. Katie practiced business litigation at a big law firm in Boston for more than five years before transitioning first into professional development for lawyers, and then into career coaching for lawyers and other professionals with Fringe Professional Development.  In this conversation, Katie shares about: Being told by lots of people when she was a young child that she should be a lawyer because she had a lot of opinions; Deciding to go to law school because it seemed easier than looking for another job when she decided she didn’t want to stay at her then-current one; What living on a yearly salary of $30k taught her and how it affected her law school choice; Why the associate to partner path in biglaw seemed so comfortable (and was a trap); The moment when she realized she didn’t want the job that she was headed towards in biglaw; Why she assumed that things would just work themselves out, and what was wrong with that assumption; What she did when her first job after leaving practice was not a great fit; Her realization that being good at a job didn’t mean she was happy or that it was the right job for her; Why being at a big firm can lull you into a false sense of security; Why leaving law involves building a new identity;  Some helpful ways to approach figuring out what you want to do next; and much more!  Show Notes: Enroll in the 8-week small group program—> formerlawyer.com/group Connect with Katie on LinkedIn or schedule a coaching consultation call with her, or connect with Fringe Professional Development on its website, LinkedIn, or

In Episode 023 of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah talks with Ami Watkin. Ami is a self-described “recovering corporate attorney,” and the co-founder of Integrated Hustle, a career and business coaching firm. In this conversation, Ami shares about: Deciding to go to law school in the aftermath of the financial crash of 2008; Making the choice to go to law school because at the age of 24 she thought “I like smart people, I’m smart, and I want to make six-figures”; Knowing that she didn’t want to stay in biglaw forever, but not knowing what she was going to do next; Pulling her first all-nighter (and many more) in biglaw; Moving to a smaller firm in order to get some breathing space and time to think about what she really wanted to do next; Loving networking, and how she used that love in order to figure out what was next for her; Her best advice for how to network with ease if you want to leave the law; How the idea for Integrated Hustle grew organically out of what she was already doing; The number one thing she thinks you should do if you’re ready to leave the law; and much more! Show Notes: Sign up for the free 5-Day Career Clarity Bootcamp—> formerlawyer.com/bootcamp Get Sarah’s free guide, First Steps to Leaving the Law—> formerlawyer.com/guide Connect with Ami and Integrated Hustle on the website, Instagram, or LinkedIn

Sarah talks with Sivani Babu. Sivani worked as a federal public defender before switching careers. She is now an award-winning nature photographer and travel journalist, and the co-founder and Creative Director of the cross-genre travel magazine Hidden Compass. In this conversation, Sivani shares about: Really enjoying being a federal public defender and getting up in court every day; Getting a “real” camera during law school and starting to take photos and display and sell her work simply as a hobby; The trip to Antarctica that changed the course of her career and her life; How the people who knew her best reacted to her decision to leave the law; Learning to navigate a new industry that was in the middle of massive transition; Being told that she needed to choose between a career in writing or a career in photography since that was how the industry worked in the past, and deciding to chart her own course; How she and the co-founder of Hidden Compass couldn’t find the kind of magazine that they wanted to read and write for—so they created it; How learning how to do new things helps you move forward with even more confidence; Why you should embrace your fear if you’re thinking about leaving the law; Why the skills that she brought from lawyering to her new career were so valuable; What you should consider when thinking about turning your hobby into a new career; Why you need to get comfortable with being uncomfortable; and much more! Show Notes: Sign up for the free 5-Day Career Clarity Bootcamp—> formerlawyer.com/bootcamp Get Sarah’s free guide, First Steps to Leaving the Law—> formerlawyer.com/guide Connect with Sivani on her website, Instagram, or Twitter, or check out the Hidden Compass website, Facebook, or Instagram

Sam left legal practice and has spent the last three years helping women entrepreneurs legally protect and grow their online businesses with her DIY Legal Templates and Fearlessly Legal™ Ultimate Bundle program. In this conversation, Sam shares about: Why she “hated every second” of corporate litigation; How she got sick of her own complaining about being a lawyer; Being told from a young age that she should be a lawyer because she was loud and opinionated; Being “laser-focused” on getting into law school in undergrad, even though she didn’t know that much about law school or being a lawyer; Her nightmare first job where associates were paid at 1/4 of the typical rate and made to compete for a permanent position; Her experience with harassment and the ways in which the legal profession props up abusers; Winning an attorney of the year award and not even wanting to go to the ceremony; Desperately Googling for stories of people who have successfully left the law; How there’s no such thing as vacation when you have a billable target to meet, because you’re just “buying time” that you have to make up; The moment that changed everything for her and made her decide to leave the law; Putting tons of pressure on herself to have the thing she chose to do after leaving the law be “THE THING” she was going to do forever; Leaving the law and opening a health coaching business; Why making her hobbies her job was not a good choice for her; How just listening to what other women entrepreneurs were asking her led to her current business; The importance of doing the inner work to detangle who you are from what you do for work; Why leaving the law will not solve all of your problems;  Her best piece of advice if you want to get out of the law; and much more! Show Notes: Get Sarah’s free guide, First Steps to Leaving the Law  Connect with Sam on Instagram, watch her YouTube channel, or visit her website

In Episode 020 of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah talks with Catherine Zack. Six years ago, Catherine walked away from biglaw to teach yoga and meditation. Through her business, The Daily Vinyasa, Catherine teaches her clients and students how to incorporate yoga, mediation, and self-care into their daily lives.  In this conversation, Catherine shares about: Being as certain she should leave the law as she had been certain she should go to law school; How being “type A plus plus plus” put her on the path to law school; Making decisions based on whether she could do something, rather than whether she should; Enjoying her first few years in biglaw; How a bad breakup combined with a big case settling caused her to pause and reflect on her biglaw experience and forced her to confront the fact that she wasn’t actually that happy; The toll that stress took on her while working in biglaw; How she managed the 75% pay cut that came with leaving biglaw; Moving out of her own apartment into a room in her friend’s basement in order to make the move from biglaw possible; Why she thinks she would never have ended up with her now-husband if she hadn’t left biglaw; What it’s been like to go back to her law firm to offer yoga and meditation workshops; Learning to trust your inner voice about where to go with your career; and much more! Show Notes: Get Sarah’s free guide, First Steps to Leaving the Law  Connect with Catherine on Instagram, by email, or on The Daily Vinyasa website Buy the Former Lawyer Jump Start

In Episode 019 of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah talks with Morgan Hall. Morgan left legal practice after 4 1/2 years and is now a sales executive at a tech company. In this conversation, Morgan shares about: Why she’s “happier than ever” working in sales; Being raised to think that her only three career options were doctor, lawyer, or engineer; Being pushed in the direction of becoming a lawyer because she had a strong personality and “liked to argue,” Hating law school, but thinking that was normal; Why worrying about looking like a quitter kept her in law school, even though she was unhappy; Disliking her first job after law school, but thinking at first that she just needed to find a different lawyer job; How she dealt with others not understanding why she wanted to leave; How generational differences regarding the perception of work complicate these conversations; The most important thing to remember when considering leaving the law; Dealing with the reality of having a large amount of student loan debt; and much more! Show Notes: Get Sarah’s free guide, First Steps to Leaving the Law  Connect with Morgan on LinkedIn or Instagram Buy the Former Lawyer Jump Start

In Episode 018 of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah talks with Marissa Geannette. Marissa walked away from a successful biglaw career after nearly eight years, and now works as a freelance writer and blogs on her site, The Unbillable Life. In this conversation, Marissa shares about: Why she started blogging after leaving biglaw, but kept the blog anonymous at first; Why she no longer blogs anonymously (you can read her blog post about it here); How she just sort of fell into her practice area; Why she started thinking about leaving the law after only one year of practice, but stayed for over 6 more years after that point; How preoccupied she was with what people would think if she left legal practice; Why she doesn’t think you need to know what you want to do next in order to leave the law; How she started getting freelance writing jobs; What led her to write a book for junior associates; Why she wishes she had been more open about how unhappy she was working in biglaw before she left; What held her back from leaving the law, and why she doesn’t want you to make the same mistake; and much more! Show Notes: Get Sarah’s free guide, First Steps to Leaving the Law  Connect with Marissa on her website or on Twitter Buy the Former Lawyer Jump Start

In Episode 017 of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah talks with Nicole Abboud. Nicole first practiced family law, then fashion law, and along the way started the podcast The Gen Y Lawyer and founded Abboud Media, a modern strategy and consulting agency specializing in social media, podcast, and video marketing for lawyers and law firms. She recently pivoted and is focusing on blogging about sustainability, inclusion, style, courage, and self-expression. In this conversation, Nicole shares about: Deciding she wanted to be a lawyer at a young age; Why she grew to hate practicing law; How she found herself feeling nervous and nauseous every workday; Why she opened her own fashion law practice even though she had started to suspect that she didn’t want to be a lawyer; How starting The Gen Y Lawyer Podcast ultimately gave her the courage and the direction to leave the law; How creating content for marketing her own practice created a business opportunity to start a company providing branding and marketing services for lawyers; Why the human desire for certainty can keep you stuck as a lawyer; The one thing she would have done differently when leaving the law; Why she’s pivoting again in her career, and how much easier it is this time around; and much more! Show Notes: Get Sarah’s free guide, First Steps to Leaving the Law  Connect with Nicole on her website, Instagram, Twitter, or by email Listen to The Former Lawyer Podcast on your preferred platform!

In Episode 016 of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah talks with Goli Kalkhoran, who quit law and started a portable photo booth company, Usie Booth. Goli also hosts the podcast Lessons from a Quitter, where she interviews inspiring people who have left traditional careers to start over and create a life they love. In this conversation, Goli shares about: Deciding that she was going to become a lawyer when she was 10 years old; Heading off to law school convinced she would love the lawyer life; Why she wasn’t surprised she didn’t like working at a law firm, but didn’t think that meant she shouldn’t be a lawyer; How the culture of misery amongst lawyers is so common and so destructive; Why a move to a new state kept her from returning to her lawyer job as planned (and why she thinks without the move, she probably would have gone back even though she was miserable); Feeling sick as she looked for a new lawyer job after moving, and how it made her realize she should consider other options; Why she put off telling people she was leaving the law for almost 6 months after she made the decision to do it; The process that led to her making the decision to leave the law; Learning to question the stories that she believed about herself; Why you probably already know what you really want, and how to listen to yourself; and much more! Show Notes: Get Sarah’s free guide, First Steps to Leaving the Law  Connect with Goli on her website, Instagram, or Facebook Listen to The Former Lawyer Podcast on your preferred platform!

In Episode 015 of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah talks with Simi Botic, who worked as a corporate healthcare associate at a law firm for almost four years before leaving to run her own business. Simi is a certified holistic health coach, Intuitive Eating counselor, and the author of Letting Go Of Leo: How I Broke Up With Perfection, a memoir about overcoming her decades long struggle with feeling like she wasn't enough. Through her work, she helps women all over the world ditch perfection and heal their relationships with food and body image so they can begin to embrace their beautifully imperfect lives.  In this conversation, Simi shares about: Going to law school because she wasn’t sure what else to do with her sociology degree; Why her dad thought she should go to law school, and how him telling her that from a young age affected her thought process about law school; The role that her perfectionist personality played into getting her into law school and keeping her there; How graduating in 2011 affected her feelings about the job offer she received from a firm in her hometown of Columbus; Why her personality was such a bad fit for litigation, and how a move to a different practice area was her saving grace; How her side hustle helped her realize that the practice of law was not for her; How she built up her business on the side to the point that it could replace her income from her firm job before leaving the law; The value of playing the long game in leaving the law, and how to approach your legal job if your plan to leave is a long-term one; How to go about figuring out what you should do career-wise if you want to leave the law, but aren’t sure what’s next; and much more! Show Notes: Get Sarah’s free guide, First Steps to Leaving the Law  Connect with Simi on her website or on Instagram, and check out her book Listen to The Former Lawyer Podcast on your preferred platform!

In Episode 014 of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah talks with Jennifer Alvey. Jennifer left the law for a career in legal publishing, and now works as a career coach for lawyers and others looking to make a career change.  In this conversation, Jennifer shares about: Her progression from thinking she just didn’t like her particular legal job to realizing she didn’t want to be a lawyer at all; How she found her first job in legal publishing; Why writing for a legal publication was completely different from typical legal writing; How her blog, which started as a fun side project, turned into an actual business;  Why career coaching can only take you so far; Why she felt shame about leaving her legal career, and how she dealt with it; Why you need to have non-lawyer friends; and much more! Show Notes: Get Sarah’s free guide, First Steps to Leaving the Law  Connect with Jennifer on her blog, Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter  Listen to The Former Lawyer Podcast on your preferred platform!

Today, you’ll read about Sarah’s conversation with Tasha Cochran of One Big Happy Life. Tasha went from working as a lawyer to being a six-figure entrepreneur and running her own online business.  When her episode first aired, Tasha was only 6 weeks out from being a lawyer. She originally started on Youtube. But, she expanded her business and has become a six-figure entrepreneur.  One Big Happy Life now helps people find balance in their lives while building wealth and living a happy life. Quoting Tasha, it’s “personal finance for people who like nice things.” Let’s get right into Tasha’s story.

In Episode 012 of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah talks with Tiffany Duong. Tiffany practiced renewable energy project finance law for five years after law school, until she had an epiphany about her life on a dive boat in the Galapagos Islands. She now works as a climate and environmental advocate and conservation journalist and founded the media advocacy group Ocean Rebels.   In this conversation, Tiffany shares about: How she didn’t anticipate spending all her time working as a lawyer when she went to law school; Why law school was “a huge corporate cloud over her very naive green dreams;” How law school narrowed her view of what she could do with her law degree; Why she felt like she was having a midlife crisis in her late 20s; Why she ended up staying in big law firms for five years, even though she originally thought she wouldn’t stay more than a year; The trip she took to the Galapagos Islands where she realized that she needed to quit law; Why she still struggles with how to fit the lawyer piece within her identity; How she uses the skills she developed as a lawyer in her environmental advocacy work; Why reimagining her lawyer past has been so helpful; How she quit her law firm job and took a year off (and why that was hard); What a Google spreadsheet had to do with her decision about what to do next; Why being willing to start over again is so important to finding what you truly want to do with your life; How selling her house gave her so much freedom; Why she doesn’t regret her career change, even though she makes much less money than she did as a lawyer; Why managing your ego is one of the most important things you can do to find fulfilling work; How you truly can live your “irresponsible dream life”—responsibly; and much more! Connect with Tiffany and Ocean Rebels: Websites: http://tiffanyduong.com/; https://oceanrebels.wixsite.com/oceanrebels Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lilicedt/; https://www.instagram.com/oceanrebels/