This podcast episode is part of the series where Sarah is chatting with Annie Little about the book Bullshit Jobs by David Graeber. If you missed the first episode in this series, check that out first and learn the background of this series and more about Annie. This episode is about the misery of ambiguity and forced pretense, which is the first of four things Graeber identifies as an impact that having a bullshit job can have on you. When it comes to ambiguity in law firms, the lack of transparency is the first thing that comes to mind for Annie. She points out that there should be a simple, straightforward path with clear instructions on each assignment and an obvious ladder to climb within the firm. In reality, there are so many hidden things that lawyers are left to just figure out on their own.   

On today’s podcast episode, Sarah is chatting with Heather Davies, another former lawyer. Heather’s new career as a professional organizer is something that many listeners have messaged Sarah about, so they chat about her journey to become a lawyer and what led to her transition to a professional organizer. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/211    

For this Thanksgiving week podcast, Sarah is sharing the three reasons why she’s grateful she made the choice to stop practicing law. Many lawyers who are considering making a change spend so much time thinking about everything that could go wrong. It’s a big decision, but it’s also really important to think about what has led you to this moment and think about what you’ll gain.  See show notes at formerlawyer.com/210  

Today’s episode covers a statement that Sarah often hears from lawyers who want to do something other than legal work. People say, “I’m not just lazy,” “I’m not lazy,” or “It’s not that I don’t want to work.” Only people who decide to become lawyers have this internal narrative that they are “lazy” if they don’t continue down this path. There’s an assumption that laziness is the reason, but that’s not the case. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/209  

Many people who listen to this podcast or reach out to work with Sarah have the question, “Does working as a lawyer give you anxiety or depression?” This podcast covers mental health and the subject of anxiety a lot, and Sarah has talked a lot about being diagnosed with generalized anxiety and a panic disorder. These mental health issues are common among lawyers, so let’s discuss that question. There’s not really a definitive answer to this question. It’s interesting how much this concern is raised, and that fact in itself says a lot about the profession and its effect on people. It comes up in the Collab program and conversations with clients at all stages of their careers. If this is something that you’re asking, you are not alone. Learn more about Collab Plus See show notes at formerlawyer.com/208    

In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell and Annie Little engaged in a candid conversation about ADHD and its prevalence among lawyers. They dive into an intriguing question that came in on social media after a previous ADHD conversation: Does being a lawyer give you ADHD?   The podcast revealed some compelling insights about ADHD in the legal profession and debunked misconceptions. If you're a lawyer contemplating a career change, this blog post is for you. We'll break down the essential points from the podcast and explore the real challenges lawyers with ADHD face, shedding light on why they may be considering leaving the law. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/206    

Last week, Lauren Ascher was on the podcast to discuss accommodations for lawyers with ADHD. It’s a good segway into an important conversation about disclosing ADHD and other mental health issues to your law firm. It’s no secret that there is a high incidence rate among lawyers for anxiety, depression, panic disorders, and other issues.  In the United States, you are entitled to certain accommodations legally for disorders covered under the ADA. But a real challenge is deciding whether or not you will disclose your ADHD, anxiety, or depression to HR at your workplace. It can feel really daunting to think about disclosing something like this at work.  See show notes at formerlawyer.com/205  

Today’s podcast episode is diving into the experience of being a lawyer with ADHD. There have been some episodes covering this topic in the past, but this one is with Lauren Ascher, and it’s for people who have ADHD and are wondering what kind of accommodations they can ask their workplace for.  Lauren is a former lawyer. She graduated from Columbia Law School in 2011. Making a career change coincided with her ADHD diagnosis, which came about ten years into her legal career. Since then, she’s become an ADHD coach and is getting her master’s in mental health counseling. It’s valuable to have an actual background in law and to understand ADHD. She’s able to help people and give them hope and strategies to cope.  There is a much higher percentage of people who are lawyers who have ADHD than the general population. Many people listen to this podcast who have ADHD or suspect that they may have ADHD, so let’s dive in. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/204  

On today’s podcast of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah is talking about why it sucks to make partner at a law firm. This isn’t true for everyone, but there are a ton of lawyers out there who works so hard to make partner and then ask themselves, “What have I done?” If you are one of those people or you feel like you’re on that path, this is for you. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/203  

In today’s podcast episode, Sarah is joined by Francesca Korbas. Francesca is the COO and a partner in the educational consultancy Vested Academics. Her story follows a unique path than many lawyers who decided to go to law school, and it provides a fascinating perspective on what it's like to step away from law into advocacy work. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/201  

Today’s podcast marks a special milestone. It’s the 200th episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast. To celebrate, Sarah sat down with Stacey Harris of Uncommonly More, who Sarah works with to produce the podcast, to talk about how the podcast came to be and what it created. Other Episodes Mentioned: Lawyers, Your Job Should Not Make You Cry The “No Assholes Rule” (And Why It’s A Joke) Is Being A Lawyer A Bullshit Job? Burnout In Lawyers with Ilona Salmons See show notes at formerlawyer.com/200    

On today’s podcast episode, Sarah has a conversation with Romy Frazier. Romy is a former lawyer who transitioned from practicing law into real estate investing. The conversation is extremely helpful because she shares the importance of taking action and making a plan while moving gradually through the process. There are always some good takeaways from listening to someone else’s stories. Let’s get to know Romy and learn about her story. Learn more about The Guided Track See show notes at formerlawyer.com/199  

On today’s podcast, Sarah dives into a specific piece of the Guided Track that many clients have found incredibly beneficial. The Guided Track is a small group program that is offered twice a year. This small group works together through the Former Lawyer framework while discussing questions and obstacles and celebrating wins.  The CliftonStrengths Workshop is part of the Guided Track experience. Vanessa Kuljis (a previous guest on the podcast) comes in and does the workshop with the group. It’s an incredibly powerful tool and is often overlooked on the sales page for the Guided Track. CliftonStrengths is a strengths assessment that looks for 34 different talent themes that, when cultivated, turn into strengths. Each person has a different order of these various strengths. The top five are the most significant. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/198  

In today’s episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah talks about the offers she has available for lawyers who are interested in leaving law and looking for some resources to help organize thoughts and plans. Sarah offers three different programs, each building off the base of the Collaborative and providing a different level of accountability and follow-up depending on your needs.  See show notes at formerlawyer.com/197  

In today’s episode, Sarah is wrapping up the summer series where she asked questions of some of her clients, who shared their personal experiences. Previous episodes have asked about myths, advice for the person they were five years ago, and much more. Make sure to catch up if you want to hear from people who have utilized some incredible resources The Former Lawyer offers.  This episode focuses on the Guided Track. This is a small group program within the Collab. The group of eight lawyers max meets for ten weeks and works through an action plan that follows the Former Lawyer Framework. In addition, there are some other tools included, like CliftonStrength workshops. These clients share their experiences and why they think someone should join. The Guided Track happens twice a year, in the spring and in the fall. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/196  

On today’s podcast episode, Sarah is sharing answers from Collab members for another question as part of the summer series. Each episode in the series asks the same question to multiple members so listeners can learn more about their experiences. Today's question is: what’s something you've learned that you wish you could go back and tell the you of five years ago? Sarah is sharing these responses and talking about how common it is to feel this way. You are not alone if you are struggling in your law career, and it’s possible that you wish you could give the you of five years ago some information as well. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/195  

On today’s podcast episode, you’ll learn more about members of the Collab and what has surprised them most. Each episode in this series asks the same question to multiple members so listeners can learn more about their experiences.  Today’s question is: What is the biggest surprise you have experienced thus far in following The Former Lawyer Framework as a Collab member? These members are working to figure out if they want to stay in law or do something different. Each of the five respondents had something different that surprised them, so you’ll see each of the answers. It’s an interesting way to learn more about the program and what it’s helped members discover about themselves and their career paths. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/194    

On today’s podcast episode, it’s another series episode where Sarah is sharing more feedback directly from Collab Members. Each series episode asks the same question to multiple members so listeners can learn more about their experiences.  Today’s question is: What’s one thing that you thought was true that you’ve realized is not true? Each of the five respondents shares a myth that they believed was true, and how it held them back from making career decisions. With more clarity upon completion of the Guided Track, each of these respondents could reassess their careers. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/193  

On today’s podcast episode, Sarah is sharing more feedback directly from Collab Members as part of the summer series. Each series episode asks the same question to multiple members so listeners can learn more about their experiences. Today's question: What is one thing that felt obvious or elementary that was really transformative for you? Sarah reminds listeners that sometimes you need that additional support to really recognize when something will make a big difference for you, even if it feels obvious. On today’s podcast episode, Sarah is sharing more feedback directly from Collab Members as part of the summer series. Each series episode asks the same question to multiple members so listeners can learn more about their experiences. Each person is answering this question today: What is one thing that felt obvious or elementary that was really transformative for you? Sarah reminds listeners that sometimes you need that additional support to really recognize when something will make a big difference for you, even if it feels obvious. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/192  

In today’s episode, Sarah is back again with Annie Little discussing the book Bullshit Jobs by David Graeber. It’s part of a series of podcast discussions diving into the miseries of a bullshit job. Today, it’s time to dive into the fourth and final misery that comes with bullshit jobs. Go back and catch up if you missed the first three in this series. The final misery covered in the book is the misery based on knowing that one is doing harm. The most obvious example of this as lawyers would be representing a person or entity, and they are asking you to do something that is itself harmful. While these situations may arise, people tend to be aware and can deal with the moral conflict.  See show notes at formerlawyer.com/190  

On the podcast today, Sarah is talking to Andrew Sohn, a podcast listener. He was practicing law when he began listening to the podcast and decided to transition to career services at a law school. Andrew shares his journey from law school and deciding to leave the law for the career happiness he's found today. It was interesting to hear many of the previous podcast themes come up in the conversation, so let’s dive in and learn more about Andrew’s story. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/185    

In today’s episode, Sarah talks about how people look at those who leave law firms. The views tend to be distorted, especially from others who work at the firm. This comes up often in Sarah’s conversations with former lawyers and people who are still currently working in law, so today, she’s diving in a bit deeper. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/184  

In today’s podcast, Sarah is chatting with Raha Francis. Raha graduated from Harvard Law and worked as a corporate intellectual property attorney before pivoting into a management consultant role at the Boston Consulting Group. During those years, she figured out how she wanted to spend her days and helps people today figure out how to create a career and life that resonates with them.  The conversation centers around self-compassion and using curiosity to help determine the best path.  Let’s dive in. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/183  

In this podcast episode, Sarah responds to a listener's email about a recent episode where the discussion was about law firms and the narcissists that often run them. The listener wanted an additional discussion on the podcast about the bullying and abuse that goes on in law firms.  Sarah spent a decade moving through different sections of the law, plus the recent work on Former Lawyer with many stories from other current and former lawyers. If anyone is going through this situation, it’s horrible and confusing. It’s hard even to understand what is happening at the moment.  Much of the abuse involves lawyers being told their work isn’t good enough, but not in a constructive criticism way. There’s a difference between giving someone feedback in a way that they can take it and it can be useful, and then there is just being a jerk. Managing people requires skills, especially when it comes to giving feedback. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/182

On today’s podcast, Sarah is chatting with Jayci Lee, a former lawyer who has become an author since leaving her job as a litigator. The conversation covers everything from the process of leaving law to the importance of caring for mental health. Sarah discovered Jayci after reading one of her books where the main character is a lawyer. One former lawyer instantly recognized another, and she knew Jayci would be a great podcast guest.  See show notes at formerlawyer.com/181

Sarah talked with Karen Gulde a few months ago as part of the former lawyers turned therapists month. Karen talked about her experience of hypervigilance as a lawyer, the experience of her nervous system is constantly activated, and how common that is for lawyers. Sarah’s husband, Ed Cottrell, posted a reaction to that on LinkedIn and shared his experiences in the last year since he left law.  In this episode, Sarah chats more with Ed about his experience with hypervigilance and leaving the law. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/180

Sarah is interviewing Dina Lynch Eisenberg, an organizational ombuds, with an interesting journey through her career. As a former lawyer, she understands the struggles of that profession and has found a way to utilize her skills to build a business. The conversation covers the different paths she took after leaving the law (her patchwork career to put it in Dina's words). Plus, she dives into exactly what she does for work now as an organizational ombuds. It’s a great conversation for any former lawyers considering HR roles and anyone looking to learn more about what’s out there. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/179

In today’s environment, Biglaw is, unfortunately, doing quite a few layoffs, and it’s a topic that many lawyers have at the top of their minds. This podcast covers many's feelings when laid off and some ways to reframe your thoughts around the topic. We'll discuss what stealth layoffs are, why it's ok to have mixed feelings, and how to move forward. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/178

On today’s podcast, Sarah talks to Ruth Kaufman, a voice-over and on-film actor who is also a former lawyer. Law school was never an option that Ruth felt drawn to, but with pressures from her parents, she earned her degree. Her career path has woven in and out of law a bit, but she’s now a successful voiceover actor. Learn more about her journey and advice to anyone looking to make a similar shift. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/177

Sarah spoke with last week’s guest, Megan Nogasky, again on this week’s podcast to dive deeper into the idea of taking mental health breaks. They chatted about the importance of listening to the signs, how to take the first steps, and some of the common challenges lawyers have in taking a mental health break. If you missed last week's episode, make sure to listen to learn more about Megan’s story of leaving law and turning to the mental health field.  See show notes at formerlawyer.com/176

In today’s podcast episode, Sarah talks to Megan Nogasky, her former law school classmate. Megan is another former lawyer who returned to school to get into the mental health space to join the series featuring lawyers who have transitioned into this industry. Megan shares some great advice and gives listeners her story about discovering that being a lawyer wasn’t for her anymore and how she made the transition.  See show notes at formerlawyer.com/175

On the Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah is chatting with Lauren Ascher about how an ADHD diagnosis changed a career, prompting her to make the career change from law to mental health work. After ten years as a lawyer, Lauren is back in school, getting her master’s in mental health counseling. She is also working as an ADHD executive function coach. After our episode with Annie Little a few months ago, many listeners have reached out about undiagnosed ADHD, so read along and listen to the podcast to learn about Lauren’s experience as a former lawyer. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/174

In this episode of the Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah interviews Yael Eiserike, a former lawyer turned therapist. They talk about the challenges of deciding to go back to school, why therapy felt like the best fit for Yael, and what advice she has for any current lawyers debating making a big change in their life.  Connect with Yael Eiserke Website: https://www.pacificmft.com/   Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@pacificmft   Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PacificMFTNetwork   Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pacificmft2/   See show notes at formerlawyer.com/173

In this episode, Sarah interviews a former lawyer, Karen Gulde. After 22 years as a lawyer, she decided to transition into counseling and help drive home the importance of mental health and self-care. Sarah and Karen talk about what factors led to her making the career switch, and what advice she has for others who might be considered the same. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/167  

This podcast episode is all about therapy for lawyers. Sarah covers the importance of finding a therapist that fits your needs and the five tips to help you find the right person.  There aren’t therapists for lawyers specifically, but there are a few tools you can utilize to help you find someone that works best for you. Sarah has been very open about how therapy has helped her and wants to share her advice to help other lawyers find therapists so they can enjoy the same benefits. 5 Tips to Find Therapists for Lawyers Let’s dive into the top five tips for finding a lawyer therapist and how to start your journey today. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/171

In this episode, Sarah interviews Mike Whelan, the author of Lawyer Forward. They chat about his work helping solo attorneys, breaking out of the task-oriented law world, and moving towards a system that allows people to thrive and succeed. You’ll hear about his experience starting law school in his 30s right as the recession hit and find out how that impacted his choice to start his own firm after graduation.  It’s a fascinating conversation that focuses on the idea that your job is not your identity and how lawyers can use their strengths to find a fulfilling career path. Let’s jump in! See show notes at formerlawyer.com/170

This episode features Cary Simowitz. Cary met Sarah by email in the summer of 2020 while he was still working as a lawyer. Before then, he had done a detour and bagged a MFA degree in California, right out of law school. Now, Cary works as the head of legal marketing at a law firm in the Midwest.  His story is proof that taking a detour as a lawyer is not necessarily a death knell like most people believe. When you follow your heart and ditch the soul-sucking legal practice, you can live the life of your dreams.  You can start by arming yourself with the necessary information that you need on your journey. This is what the Guided Track with Sarah offers. The Guided Track gives you access to resources on how to leave the law and a community of former lawyers and aspiring former lawyers like you who are ready to walk the journey with you. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/169

As you know, my podcast and membership, the Collaborative, is all about helping lawyers who feel they want to leave the law determine what they want to do instead, and how to do it.  Usually, I share the stories of guests who have left the law already or want to leave the law, they are other “former lawyers” who are ready to share their stories. Now, we’re kicking off a new series of episodes where I am going to be interviewing some of my clients who are in the Collaborative.  The Collaborative is confidential, so we are calling today’s guest “Anon” to protect her anonymity, but she’s been gracious enough to share her experiences with us to help dispel those misconceptions about the process of making a career change and how the Collaborative is facilitating her transition. Learn more about The Guided Track - formerlawyer.com/guidedtrack See show notes at formerlawyer.com/098

This episode features Angelica Pedraza, who has eight years of experience working as a commercial real estate lawyer in Biglaw, Midlaw, and a boutique firm. Angelina has been a lawyer for eight years but has decided to leave the field to become a nurse.  Angelina gave notice at her firm in October of last year after joining the Former Lawyer Collaborative in May. In this episode, we learn about her journey and how she plans to change careers.  If you’re reading this and want the resources, courage, and support to make the kind of change she did, you can get all these by joining the Collaborative’s Guided Track course. Joining the course gives you access to all the resources in the Collaborative and the Former Lawyer Framework that detail how to make that transition. Apart from these, you also get access to a community of lawyers who will join a weekly call with Sarah to provide support.  Enrollment closes on February 17th, as this cohort starts on the 20th.  Now, let’s get into the conversation with Angelica. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/168

This episode is a follow-up to Sarah’s previous conversation with Jamie Spannhake. Jamie is a Former Lawyer Collaborative member who left the law in October 2021 after 17 years of practice. In this episode, Jamie talks about what she's done over the last 12 months since leaving the law and some of the lessons that she has continued to learn. If you want to experience the same thing, Sarah will start a new round of the Guided Track in February to help you figure out what you want to do outside the law.  When you join the Guided Track, you get access to everything in the Collab, including the community, weekly calls, and an action plan that guides you through the Former Lawyer Framework. This cohort will only take six lawyers, secure your spot now. Enrollment closes on February 17, and the course starts on the 20th.  Now, let’s get into the conversation with Jamie! See show notes at formerlawyer.com/167

This episode features Marquel Stuedemann, who joined the Former Lawyer Collaborative in the Fall 2021 cohort of Guided Track.  Marquel discusses her experiences before and after joining The Collaborative. In this episode, you will see what being in The Collaborative looks like and how the support can help you leave the law by identifying an alternative career that is a great fit for you.  If you would love to have the same experience as Marquel Stuedemann, you can join the next Guided Track cohort that starts in February. The Guided Track is a ten-week support program that gives you access to all the resources in The Collaborative, including weekly support calls with five other lawyers that get into the program. You also get a 30-minute one-on-one call with Sarah Cottrell, which you can use during the ten weeks.  Now, let’s get into the conversation with Marquel.

In this episode, Sarah discusses starting 2023 with a new podcast series that features previous clients in the Former Lawyer Collaborative. People who listen to the new series will hear the inspiring stories of former lawyers who quit their soul-sucking jobs by following Sarah's tried-and-true advice and strategies. These former lawyers are now in careers they love and are enjoying the life they now live to the fullest! Learn more about The Guided Track. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/165

Loly Orozco is a former financial restructuring lawyer who went from Biglaw to running a creative business. Her stationery design company, Little Postage House, sells curated vintage postage stamps and designs and prints all types of paper items from birth announcements to wedding invitations to save the dates.  On this episode of the podcast, Loly shares how she took something that she loved, creating art, and ultimately determined that making it a business was a great fit for her. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/086

Today’s episode picks up from the last bit of Sarah’s discussion with Sarah Rutledge Fischer.   In the first half of the conversation, Sarah talked about her journey through the legal track and into a Biglaw firm. She also spoke about seeking therapy and being pregnant while practicing law.  In the final part of this conversation, you’ll read about her journey out of the law and into the art world. You’ll also learn a bit about the concept of “following your passion” and how Sarah (Cottrell) helps lawyers to leave the law.  See show notes at formerlawyer.com/039

This week, I’m sharing my conversation with Dr. Jan Newman. Jan moved from Biglaw associate to clinical psychologist and executive coach who works with multi-passionate high achievers who want to level up their lives.  She is a published author, researcher, and frequent speaker on emotional intelligence, interpersonal effectiveness, and psychological flexibility. In her former life, she was a practicing lawyer. This is an incredible conversation with some amazing takeaways about finding a different career path. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/037

The episode is an installment in The After series that focuses on showing lawyers that the after is really better than before. This episode features Janelle Christian, who successfully transitioned from big law to life coaching. In this conversation, Janelle talks to Sarah about being bored in the legal profession and building a side hustle as a lawyer. She talked about how some harmful lies told in the legal field hurt people and make lawyers feel bad about themselves. You should listen to this conversation to learn how to create lives of autonomy, happiness, freedom, and wealth. Let's dive in! See show notes at formerlawyer.com/077

Kicking off a new podcast series, The After Series.  The new series will help unhappy lawyers who are hesitant to quit their soul-sucking jobs for fear of what comes next or because of uncertainty see that quitting to follow their passion makes things better than before.  Why the After Series is Important Sarah notes that a common trait among her clients, especially those in Biglaw, is disbelief that things could get better than they currently are in their job. Those working in Biglaw firms can attest that a lot of emotional and mental manipulation happens in these firms.  The incredibly toxic environment makes it hard to believe that doing something outside the law will help these lawyers feel better or enjoy a better life. These lawyers constantly wonder if things are better on the other side of the law.  See show notes at formerlawyer.com/164

This episode features Greg Jacobs, who has successfully transitioned from the law into the technology industry as a data scientist after 14 years of practice.  In this conversation, Sarah talks to Greg about the approach he used to move into a job that many lawyers are potentially thinking about without fully returning to school. You should listen to this if you want to start a fulfilling career in the tech industry. You will learn the exact process Greg used to get his dream job and how taking the risk to trust his instinct brought him to where he is right now. Let’s get right in! See show notes at formerlawyer.com/164