Today’s mini-sode is an exclusive preview of the July 2020 Influence Ecology 3-D Virtual Conferences. Through VirBELA for virtual events, Influence Ecology now offers a social engagement and communication solution on our private 3-D virtual campus; it transforms a real-time campus into an unforgettable, fully immersive experience. Our private virtual campus is designed to promote real social interaction, engagement, and collaboration with speakers, attendees, faculty, sponsors, and campus partners. Today we hear Trisha Tyler, one of our 40 featured conference experts share how they build potent transactions that produce better outcomes. As we teach it, the principle of Personality and Transactional Behavior™ allows each of us to exploit our unique perspective. From a combination of their worldview and expertise – each conference speaker will reveal their specialized strategies and tactics that you can apply to your own business or profession. Our Mid-Year Conferences are July 12-14 USA Central Time, and July 26-28 Australian Western Standard Time. Our 3-D Virtual Campus allows you to meet today’s guest, other experts, and participants 24-hours a day from both conferences and in any country. Here’s the interview.

Today’s mini-sode is an exclusive preview of the July 2020 Influence Ecology 3-D Virtual Conferences. Through VirBELA for virtual events, Influence Ecology now offers a social engagement and communication solution on our private 3-D virtual campus; it transforms a real-time campus into an unforgettable, fully immersive experience. Our private virtual campus is designed to promote real social interaction, engagement, and collaboration with speakers, attendees, faculty, sponsors, and campus partners. Today we hear Jeff Miller, one of our 40 featured conference experts share how they build potent transactions that produce better outcomes. As we teach it, the principle of Personality and Transactional Behavior™ allows each of us to exploit our unique perspective. From a combination of their worldview and expertise – each conference speaker will reveal their specialized strategies and tactics that you can apply to your own business or profession. Our Mid-Year Conferences are July 12-14 USA Central Time, and July 26-28 Australian Western Standard Time. Our 3-D Virtual Campus allows you to meet today’s guest, other experts, and participants 24-hours a day from both conferences and in any country. Here’s the interview.

Today’s mini-sode is an exclusive preview of the July 2020 Influence Ecology 3-D Virtual Conferences. Through VirBELA for virtual events, Influence Ecology now offers a social engagement and communication solution on our private 3-D virtual campus; it transforms a real-time campus into an unforgettable, fully immersive experience. Our private virtual campus is designed to promote real social interaction, engagement, and collaboration with speakers, attendees, faculty, sponsors, and campus partners. Today we hear Marne Power, one of our 40 featured conference experts share how they build potent transactions that produce better outcomes. As we teach it, the principle of Personality and Transactional Behavior™ allows each of us to exploit our unique perspective. From a combination of their worldview and expertise – each conference speaker will reveal their specialized strategies and tactics that you can apply to your own business or profession. Our Mid-Year Conferences are July 12-14 USA Central Time, and July 26-28 Australian Western Standard Time. Our 3-D Virtual Campus allows you to meet today’s guest, other experts, and participants 24-hours a day from both conferences and in any country. Here’s the interview.

Today’s mini-sode is an exclusive preview of the July 2020 Influence Ecology 3-D Virtual Conferences. Through VirBELA for virtual events, Influence Ecology now offers a social engagement and communication solution on our private 3-D virtual campus; it transforms a real-time campus into an unforgettable, fully immersive experience. Our private virtual campus is designed to promote real social interaction, engagement, and collaboration with speakers, attendees, faculty, sponsors, and campus partners. Today we hear Sue Rhomberg, one of our 40 featured conference experts share how they build potent transactions that produce better outcomes. As we teach it, the principle of Personality and Transactional Behavior™ allows each of us to exploit our unique perspective. From a combination of their worldview and expertise – each conference speaker will reveal their specialized strategies and tactics that you can apply to your own business or profession. Our Mid-Year Conferences are July 12-14 USA Central Time, and July 26-28 Australian Western Standard Time. Our 3-D Virtual Campus allows you to meet today’s guest, other experts, and participants 24-hours a day from both conferences and in any country. Here’s the interview.

Today’s mini-sode is an exclusive preview of the July 2020 Influence Ecology 3-D Virtual Conferences. Through VirBELA for virtual events, Influence Ecology now offers a social engagement and communication solution on our private 3-D virtual campus; it transforms a real-time campus into an unforgettable, fully immersive experience. Our private virtual campus is designed to promote real social interaction, engagement, and collaboration with speakers, attendees, faculty, sponsors, and campus partners. Today we hear David Cottrell, one of our 40 featured conference experts share how they build potent transactions that produce better outcomes. As we teach it, the principle of Personality and Transactional Behavior™ allows each of us to exploit our unique perspective. From a combination of their worldview and expertise – each conference speaker will reveal their specialized strategies and tactics that you can apply to your own business or profession. Our Mid-Year Conferences are July 12-14 USA Central Time, and July 26-28 Australian Western Standard Time. Our 3-D Virtual Campus allows you to meet today’s guest, other experts, and participants 24-hours a day from both conferences and in any country. Here’s the interview.

Today’s mini-sode is an exclusive preview of the July 2020 Influence Ecology 3-D Virtual Conferences. Through VirBELA for virtual events, Influence Ecology now offers a social engagement and communication solution on our private 3-D virtual campus; it transforms a real-time campus into an unforgettable, fully immersive experience. Our private virtual campus is designed to promote real social interaction, engagement, and collaboration with speakers, attendees, faculty, sponsors, and campus partners. Today we hear Khush Cooper, one of our 40 featured conference experts share how they build potent transactions that produce better outcomes. As we teach it, the principle of Personality and Transactional Behavior™ allows each of us to exploit our unique perspective. From a combination of their worldview and expertise – each conference speaker will reveal their specialized strategies and tactics that you can apply to your own business or profession. Our Mid-Year Conferences are July 12-14 USA Central Time, and July 26-28 Australian Western Standard Time. Our 3-D Virtual Campus allows you to meet today’s guest, other experts, and participants 24-hours a day from both conferences and in any country. Here’s the interview.

Today’s mini-sode is an exclusive preview of the July 2020 Influence Ecology 3-D Virtual Conferences. Through VirBELA for virtual events, Influence Ecology now offers a social engagement and communication solution on our private 3-D virtual campus; it transforms a real-time campus into an unforgettable, fully immersive experience. Our private virtual campus is designed to promote real social interaction, engagement, and collaboration with speakers, attendees, faculty, sponsors, and campus partners. Today we hear Doug Robertson, one of our 40 featured conference experts share how they build potent transactions that produce better outcomes. As we teach it, the principle of Personality and Transactional Behavior™ allows each of us to exploit our unique perspective. From a combination of their worldview and expertise – each conference speaker will reveal their specialized strategies and tactics that you can apply to your own business or profession. Our Mid-Year Conferences are July 12-14 USA Central Time, and July 26-28 Australian Western Standard Time. Our 3-D Virtual Campus allows you to meet today’s guest, other experts, and participants 24-hours a day from both conferences and in any country. Here’s the interview.

Today’s mini-sode is an exclusive preview of the July 2020 Influence Ecology 3-D Virtual Conferences. Through VirBELA for virtual events, Influence Ecology now offers a social engagement and communication solution on our private 3-D virtual campus; it transforms a real-time campus into an unforgettable, fully immersive experience. Our private virtual campus is designed to promote real social interaction, engagement, and collaboration with speakers, attendees, faculty, sponsors, and campus partners. Today we hear Dan Murphy, one of our 40 featured conference experts share how they build potent transactions that produce better outcomes. As we teach it, the principle of Personality and Transactional Behavior™ allows each of us to exploit our unique perspective. From a combination of their worldview and expertise – each conference speaker will reveal their specialized strategies and tactics that you can apply to your own business or profession. Our Mid-Year Conferences are July 12-14 USA Central Time, and July 26-28 Australian Western Standard Time. Our 3-D Virtual Campus allows you to meet today’s guest, other experts, and participants 24-hours a day from both conferences and in any country. Here’s the interview.

Today’s mini-sode is an exclusive preview of the July 2020 Influence Ecology 3-D Virtual Conferences. Through VirBELA for virtual events, Influence Ecology now offers a social engagement and communication solution on our private 3-D virtual campus; it transforms a real-time campus into an unforgettable, fully immersive experience. Our private virtual campus is designed to promote real social interaction, engagement, and collaboration with speakers, attendees, faculty, sponsors, and campus partners. Today we hear Marika Meertens, one of our 40 featured conference experts share how they build potent transactions that produce better outcomes. As we teach it, the principle of Personality and Transactional Behavior™ allows each of us to exploit our unique perspective. From a combination of their worldview and expertise – each conference speaker will reveal their specialized strategies and tactics that you can apply to your own business or profession. Our Mid-Year Conferences are July 12-14 USA Central Time, and July 26-28 Australian Western Standard Time. Our 3-D Virtual Campus allows you to meet today’s guest, other experts, and participants 24-hours a day from both conferences and in any country. Here’s the interview.

Today’s mini-sode is an exclusive preview of the July 2020 Influence Ecology 3-D Virtual Conferences. Through VirBELA for virtual events, Influence Ecology now offers a social engagement and communication solution on our private 3-D virtual campus; it transforms a real-time campus into an unforgettable, fully immersive experience. Our private virtual campus is designed to promote real social interaction, engagement, and collaboration with speakers, attendees, faculty, sponsors, and campus partners. Today we hear Patricia DeBough, one of our 40 featured conference experts share how they build potent transactions that produce better outcomes. As we teach it, the principle of Personality and Transactional Behavior™ allows each of us to exploit our unique perspective. From a combination of their worldview and expertise – each conference speaker will reveal their specialized strategies and tactics that you can apply to your own business or profession. Our Mid-Year Conferences are July 12-14 USA Central Time, and July 26-28 Australian Western Standard Time. Our 3-D Virtual Campus allows you to meet today’s guest, other experts, and participants 24-hours a day from both conferences and in any country. Here’s the interview.

Today’s mini-sode is an exclusive preview of the July 2020 Influence Ecology 3-D Virtual Conferences. Through VirBELA for virtual events, Influence Ecology now offers a social engagement and communication solution on our private 3-D virtual campus; it transforms a real-time campus into an unforgettable, fully immersive experience. Our private virtual campus is designed to promote real social interaction, engagement, and collaboration with speakers, attendees, faculty, sponsors, and campus partners. Today we hear Corey Shepherd, one of our 40 featured conference experts share how they build potent transactions that produce better outcomes. As we teach it, the principle of Personality and Transactional Behavior™ allows each of us to exploit our unique perspective. From a combination of their worldview and expertise – each conference speaker will reveal their specialized strategies and tactics that you can apply to your own business or profession. Our Mid-Year Conferences are July 12-14 USA Central Time, and July 26-28 Australian Western Standard Time. Our 3-D Virtual Campus allows you to meet today’s guest, other experts, and participants 24-hours a day from both conferences and in any country. Here’s the interview.

As featured on CNN, The View, Oprah Winfrey, and others - Vernice FlyGirl Armour has inspired countless organizations and individuals to make gutsy moves and breakthrough results. Vernice has a unique vantage point and has empathy for what fractures our nation: Cop, Marine, Black, Female, Gay. Vernice first propelled herself from beat cop to combat pilot in a record-breaking three years and became America's First African American Female Combat Pilot. She has two honorary doctorates, was a Diversity Liaison Officer to the Pentagon for Headquarters Marine Corps, and is a member of the COMCAST/NBCUniversal Joint Diversity Council. Her signature book, Zero to Breakthrough™, was published in 2011, and she's at work on her next book, The Gutsy Move. Vernice now mentors and keynotes for elite senior executive Women in Tech and demonstrates how to navigate courageous moves in challenging corporate climates - and in times like these. Here's the interview.

Today’s mini-sode is an exclusive preview of the July 2020 Influence Ecology 3-D Virtual Conferences. Through VirBELA for virtual events, Influence Ecology now offers a social engagement and communication solution on our private 3-D virtual campus; it transforms a real-time campus into an unforgettable, fully immersive experience. Our private virtual campus is designed to promote real social interaction, engagement, and collaboration with speakers, attendees, faculty, sponsors, and campus partners. Today we hear Rebekah Tucker, one of our 40 featured conference experts share how they build potent transactions that produce better outcomes. As we teach it, the principle of Personality and Transactional Behavior™ allows each of us to exploit our unique perspective. From a combination of their worldview and expertise – each conference speaker will reveal their specialized strategies and tactics that you can apply to your own business or profession. Our Mid-Year Conferences are July 12-14 USA Central Time, and July 26-28 Australian Western Standard Time. Our 3-D Virtual Campus allows you to meet today’s guest, other experts, and participants 24-hours a day from both conferences and in any country. Here’s the interview.

Today’s mini-sode is an exclusive preview of the July 2020 Influence Ecology 3-D Virtual Conferences. Through VirBELA for virtual events, Influence Ecology now offers a social engagement and communication solution on our private 3-D virtual campus; it transforms a real-time campus into an unforgettable, fully immersive experience. Our private virtual campus is designed to promote real social interaction, engagement, and collaboration with speakers, attendees, faculty, sponsors, and campus partners. Today we hear Paul Adams, one of our 40 featured conference experts share how they build potent transactions that produce better outcomes. As we teach it, the principle of Personality and Transactional Behavior™ allows each of us to exploit our unique perspective. From a combination of their worldview and expertise – each conference speaker will reveal their specialized strategies and tactics that you can apply to your own business or profession. Our Mid-Year Conferences are July 12-14 USA Central Time, and July 26-28 Australian Western Standard Time. Our 3-D Virtual Campus allows you to meet today’s guest, other experts, and participants 24-hours a day from both conferences and in any country. Here’s the interview.

Today’s mini-sode is an exclusive preview of the July 2020 Influence Ecology 3-D Virtual Conferences. Through VirBELA for virtual events, Influence Ecology now offers a social engagement and communication solution on our private 3-D virtual campus; it transforms a real-time campus into an unforgettable, fully immersive experience. Our private virtual campus is designed to promote real social interaction, engagement, and collaboration with speakers, attendees, faculty, sponsors, and campus partners. Today we hear Simon Chesney, one of our 40 featured conference experts share how they build potent transactions that produce better outcomes. As we teach it, the principle of Personality and Transactional Behavior™ allows each of us to exploit our unique perspective. From a combination of their worldview and expertise – each conference speaker will reveal their specialized strategies and tactics that you can apply to your own business or profession. Our Mid-Year Conferences are July 12-14 USA Central Time, and July 26-28 Australian Western Standard Time. Our 3-D Virtual Campus allows you to meet today’s guest, other experts, and participants 24-hours a day from both conferences and in any country. Here’s the interview.

Today’s mini-sode is an exclusive preview of the July 2020 Influence Ecology 3-D Virtual Conferences. Through VirBELA for virtual events, Influence Ecology now offers a social engagement and communication solution on our private 3-D virtual campus; it transforms a real-time campus into an unforgettable, fully immersive experience. Our private virtual campus is designed to promote real social interaction, engagement, and collaboration with speakers, attendees, faculty, sponsors, and campus partners. Today we hear Andrew Crellin, one of our 40 featured conference experts share how they build potent transactions that produce better outcomes. As we teach it, the principle of Personality and Transactional Behavior™ allows each of us to exploit our unique perspective. From a combination of their worldview and expertise – each conference speaker will reveal their specialized strategies and tactics that you can apply to your own business or profession. Our Mid-Year Conferences are July 12-14 USA Central Time, and July 26-28 Australian Western Standard Time. Our 3-D Virtual Campus allows you to meet today’s guest, other experts, and participants 24-hours a day from both conferences and in any country. Here’s the interview.

Today’s mini-sode is an exclusive preview of the July 2020 Influence Ecology 3-D Virtual Conferences. Through VirBELA for virtual events, Influence Ecology now offers a social engagement and communication solution on our private 3-D virtual campus; it transforms a real-time campus into an unforgettable, fully immersive experience. Our private virtual campus is designed to promote real social interaction, engagement, and collaboration with speakers, attendees, faculty, sponsors, and campus partners. Today we hear Joni Rocco, one of our 40 featured conference experts share how they build potent transactions that produce better outcomes. As we teach it, the principle of Personality and Transactional Behavior™ allows each of us to exploit our unique perspective. From a combination of their worldview and expertise – each conference speaker will reveal their specialized strategies and tactics that you can apply to your own business or profession. Our Mid-Year Conferences are July 12-14 USA Central Time, and July 26-28 Australian Western Standard Time. Our 3-D Virtual Campus allows you to meet today’s guest, other experts, and participants 24-hours a day from both conferences and in any country. Here’s the interview.

Having experienced job burnout early in her career, Patricia DeBough began to confront her work life and what she wanted it to be. Although successful, she believed in projecting a positive attitude, suffered from anxiety, and didn’t understand her value. As a result, she put up with or stayed too long in situations that were unhealthy or didn’t meet her aims. She was profoundly frustrated and felt powerless in certain circumstances and relationships, and she hustled for value instead of having an intrinsic sense of her worth or her specialized knowledge. Exhausted and dissatisfied, she didn’t fully understand the toll of her psychology. Her story amplifies our motto “slow down to speed up” and that what she hasn’t done is the most significant result. She realized that there was accurate thinking required before jumping into a series of untested actions. If not, she may move from a bad or difficult situation to a worse one. Today, she is in a new position, provides leadership, and is valued across the entire organization.

Helen Kearney is a sales recruiter for a global software company. Her life’s journey and her career specialization allow us to examine the question that we all – at one time or another – find ourselves asking: what is my perfect job (or purpose or life’s mission)? As she explains, many people are exceptionally naive about their professional value. They may not understand their involvement in the larger transaction and the realities of their role in the marketplace. As such, she says, they often fail to consider or understand the needs of the employer and their concerns. Like any good marraige or satisfying position, a job is a reciprocal transaction. Near the end of the episode, you’ll also hear Helen’s tips for your preparing your LinkedIn profile, resume, and job interview. Below you’ll find a transcript of this podcast episode that has been edited for your reading pleasure. You’ll also see links at the bottom of this post where you can find more information on the people and ideas mentioned in the episode. Produced by: John Patterson & Tyson Crandall “People get conceptions and ideas that are subjective or they create these narratives. You need to transact […] with people that are doing work that you think you might want to do. You need to talk to them […] and get the real picture.” John Patterson: Helen Kearney, welcome to the Influence Ecology Podcast. Great to have you here. Helen Kearney: You as well. John Patterson: Take a minute and introduce yourself, if you would. Helen Kearney: Hi, I’m Helen Kearney and I live in Denver, Colorado and I am a recruiter for a global software company and very excited to talk with you today. John Patterson: Great. It’s good to have you here as well. I’m actually a bit excited to speak with you for a few reasons. So one, is you’re in a recruiting business and you have a lot to say about that, from what I understand. But there’s also something really valuable I think for our customers who are, of course, attempting to satisfy some aims that they have for their career and for their work. And so in your notes, you talk a little bit about the perfect job fallacy or the illusion of all of that. And I’m looking forward to talking about that with you and finding out some of your thoughts about it. But before we get to that, let’s talk a little bit about your own journey with Influence Ecology. Tell us a little bit about the way that you were thinking before you met Influence Ecology, what was going on for you. And then we’ll start to move towards what’s happened since, but what was life like before Influence Ecology for you? Helen Kearney: Yeah. I really had a goal in my life to have a successful career that paid great money and was kind of transferable that I could pick up from company to company and carry on. And so I, more than a lot of people I knew was very ambitious and really moved forward in my career. And when I came to Influence Ecology, by all measures was very successful. And I was drawn to the ecology and the education because it is for people who are already successful. But in my career, I had always had a bit of a background angst and always returned to this thought of, “I don’t know, I feel like I’m meant to do something and I just need to find that mission.” And I had really convinced myself that I was sort of here on this planet to do something extraordinary and this wasn’t it. So everything had the undertone of a bit of unhappiness. So I was sort of being driven by that. And even though I had these really great jobs, so … John Patterson: Did you do a lot of things to try to reveal to yourself that perfect direction or orientation or … Helen Kearney: Yes. John Patterson: And I bring it up because I hear this quite often, people are on a quest to find out what am I supposed to do with my life? And it starts very early on, of course, with people, parents asking you, “What do you want to be when you grow up?” But there is this sense that there is some kind of perfect role, perfect job, perfect place in the universe, whatever you might call it. And I just need to uncover it. So tell us a little bit about what you did to deal with that. Helen Kearney: Oh, yes. My self-awareness meter is very, very high. I mean I have done all kinds of self development courses and read all of the personality, different types. And being in HR, you often have access to all of those tests and things like that. Anytime someone goes to talk to me about who they are or whatnot, I can tell you every little nuance of how I am in the world and how I express myself and what really is valuable to me. And I hear this a lot from people, but I do just think it’s such a fantasy that we have from a very early age, you pointed that out perfectly, that there is this ideal structure that I get to perfectly plug into that satisfies my … “I wake up in the morning and I’m just alive and I just, oh, I want to get out of bed. And yes …” That every moment has this high. And so I had to come to terms with sometimes there’s just like a normalcy to your job and it’s not always going to be fun every moment. Like for me, being the performer personality, it was so helpful when I started to study with Influence Ecology because I realized that yes, I really enjoy people and I love that aspect of my job. And there will always be parts that are producer-focused and I stopped making myself wrong for really not liking that stuff. And I was actually listening to a podcast recently where you said something about how performers are often prone to thinking, “Oh, if only I was more disciplined,” or just that sense of, “I should be that other thing. And I feel bad about the fact that I just like to talk to people and I should be doing it differently.” John Patterson: This is really good because this is the year of satisfaction here at Influence Ecology. And one of the things that we’re addressing right now in … This is March, I don’t know when this podcast will come out, but it’s currently March and the year of satisfaction for Influence Ecology. And one of the things that we’re working on or dealing with is that people always have some sort of standard by which they gauge their satisfaction. And that standard is often a bar that’s set really high. So for example, “I should never be bored,” is a ridiculous standard. “I should be happy all the time,” is it ridiculous standard. “I should constantly be excited and passionate about what I’m doing.” Again, a ridiculous standard. A standard that can’t be met. And if that is in fact your standard, there’s going to be some suffering that goes on with it. So in terms of the job, the perfect job fallacy there is, from what I can tell in speaking with people, and I’d love to hear your perspective a little bit from somebody working in recruiting. But there is the sense that there is some job that when I find that job, I will be happy, I will be satisfied, I’ll always be engaged. I’ll always want to get up and go to work or roll out of bed. There will never be anything as mundane as maintenance and labor. It will always be something quite exciting. So comments about all that. Helen Kearney: Yeah, and the same goes on the flip side of it. When we’re interviewing people, oftentimes managers think there’s a perfect candidate. People get conceptions and ideas that are subjective or they create these narratives about all of that. One of the things I hear most often is, “I really want to get paid what I’m worth.” It’s like, well great. If I was hiring for a law clerk and I had an attorney apply, guess what? Yeah, maybe I’ll pay him a tiny bit more, but he’s still going to be a law clerk. I think that we talk about with deliberate focus, you may not have that. It’s not fun. You have to repeat it. And so in the area of, we call it early career, we don’t say young people, but early career folks, oftentimes out of college, they’re actually not used to having their butt in a seat every day and coming to work and it’s like, “This is boring.” And so early career folks, we often have to train them to type up an email that capitalizes things, things like that. And then especially in sales, people say, “Oh, I want to go into sales because I want to make a lot of money.” But guess what? It’s scary. You have to pick up that phone and you have to have people that say no, or you put in all this effort. As you get more senior in your sales career, you put a ton of effort and all your eggs in a basket for a large deal with a huge corporation. And yet you’re neglecting maybe some smaller deals. They’re out of sight. And then all of a sudden at the last minute that big deal falls apart and you really have to learn that you need to focus on sort of objectively your whole pipeline or you’re focused on putting a lot of effort into one thing and then suddenly, all of a sudden, this other deal comes in, they call it a blue bird that comes in. And if you’re managing that whole aspect of all of your job, that’ll often … It’ll kind of work out. I also tell people when they’re job seeking that you can call, say, luck happens. Oh, like, “Helen, you were really lucky in your career.” No, I knocked on a lot of doors in my pathway to success and getting where I wanted to go. And I’d like other people to consider this. You need to talk to a lot of people. You need to transact for and ask informational interview kinds of questions with people that are kind of doing work that you think you might want to do. You need to talk to them and say, “Well, what is it actually like? What do you love about it? What’s hard?” And get the real picture. And I had many times in my career where I got very focused. “Oh yes, I know that I want to become an HR business partner. That is the next step in my career.” And then I started interviewing and kind of networking with people that do that work and started to learn. “Oh right, right. People can be kind of complex and crazy human beings and they get into a job and it’s a difficult job.” So once I learned that, and actually once I began to study with Influence Ecology and I got this certification that was actually a lot more time and effort that I had planned for as a performer. I just jumped in and got very overwhelmed quickly. But I got that certification and was pursuing that path and that narrative of, “Oh yes, yes, this is going to be great. This is going to allow me to be the consultant and work with the leaders and the VPs and that’s what I’m ready for.” And really I got very far down that path, worked with a company with that concept in mind. And it was just hard. That’s all I kind of … If I just say it like that, it was just stressful for me. I like people in the side of performer to be happy. And when you have employees that have issues or conflicts or complain, it can be very stressful. And so while I was studying, I was able to kind of step back and use all of that information that I gained and heard previously from other HR business partners that know actually specializing in recruiting, which is what I ended up coming to, is really the part of the transaction cycle in human resources where a performer really kind of belongs best. I’m selling the company, I’m finding a candidate and selling the candidate to the managers. But I think for job seekers to dissolve that fantasy, you should really spend time learning industries that you might want to go into. But then you need to narrow from there. You have lots of possibilities of lots of different kinds of jobs, but each of them have titles. So keep narrowing down, keep getting specialized, understanding your personality and seeing, “Okay, if I’m an engineer, what part of the transaction cycle does my personality best fit into for that software development role?” John Patterson: In your own journey, I can hear that in your participation here, you started to think accurately about a variety of things. So can you say a little bit about what some of those things are for you personally, what did you start to think accurately about for yourself, about your personality, about the work that you wanted to do, about the satisfaction of your own conditions of life? Say a little bit about that for me, if you would. Helen Kearney: One of the main things is that … I’ll give the example of when I was pursuing my current role, I had just started to study with Influence Ecology when I had this whole idea of becoming an HR manager. And I had really crafted this ideal role that I thought I wanted. And it was kind of 80% recruiting and a startup company doing technical recruiting. So speaking with technical software folks, they don’t like to hide in plain sight like software people. They’re coding, they’re in dark rooms, they’re not really peopling, but I thought I need that experience. And then the other part of it was doing some of this HR manager work. So that whole experience was all in the beginning of my studies. And I started to realize that these technical people I was talking to and recruiting for were speaking a foreign language. I did not understand what they were talking about. I might ask them, “Tell me what language do you code in?” And then I could not understand them for half an hour. So I wasn’t effective in bringing those technical candidates to my managers because I didn’t know if they were qualified or not. So that coupled with trying out this HR manager role, I really looked at it and said, “Oh, okay. It’s all right to specialize. In fact, that would be really fun for me to actually only talk to salespeople all day long and give myself that permission.” So I ended up deciding to contact some career sales recruiters in the area just to say, “Was that ever a disservice to you to, to get that specialized in sales recruiting?” And actually I got a call back right away and someone had a position open. So what ended up happening is I’ve used our education and throughout that whole interview cycle, studied so hard at the start of every day and confronted my moods, which I in the past would fall into despair a lot. So every day I would say, “Okay, great. Objectively that mood is not going to help you today.” And as I progressed in the interview process with this company, I really listened to, who is the person I’m speaking with right now? I have 30 minutes, I’m going to have to guess very quickly who you are and what’s important to you. And it was a fabulous experience because sure enough, my peer was a judge and wanted to hear a lot about my past. And so immediately I had facts and I had projects, I had bullet points in front of me. Should I be talking to someone that needed that? And then the director was this high level performer, but I would take notes and then I, after the interviews would, would go back and really look at it all objectively. Like what am I hearing they’re looking for? And more importantly, is this a fit for me? Is this the kind of sales recruiting I wanted? And then the last part of that cycle was really using what I knew about what I wanted in terms of culture to ask, “hey, it sounds like I’m a match for you.” I’d like to just take one step further and talk to a sales manager that I might be working with so I have a feeling for them. And I ended up really being able to make sure that that culture piece was a match. So, and then at the end of the day when we had finally got to offer, I was able to have shown such a high level of value that they kind of increased the role to capture a more senior role. And if job seekers out there can use this education to … If they’re laid off and needing that or even just in planning, use the aspect of networking and that kind of thing, it can really help you get in the right mindset. John Patterson: That’s really great. All right. So I can hear sort of where your journey has taken you, from fantasy job to much more of one based in reality using understanding personality, understanding all parts of the transaction cycle, understanding your own conditions of life and thinking accurately about them and moving yourself closer and closer towards the job. It sounds like you now have. So is there anything else that we should know about your journey? I’m going to go to recruiting in just a moment specifically and I have some questions there, but anything else that we should know about your journey along the way using this education? Helen Kearney: Well, I think it’s important for people to know that … When I came and started studying I thought, “Well, this education is for entrepreneurs. I can’t do these things inside of a corporate environment. I can’t use scarcity. I can’t transact for more help. My job is what it is.” And I really came to learn that that’s not true. For example, sometimes I get into places where I have a very high workload and it just happens to be hiring season. People get their budgets, that sort of thing. And in the past, I sort of felt in some ways like this is my responsibility and hiring managers would come to me and say, “I’m carrying a quota. There’s no pipeline, I need candidates.” And there’s this sort of order taking aspect. I was able to shift that into we’re really partners here, co constitutive, let’s talk about how we can mutually move this along. And so I’ve asked hiring managers sort of to take a 50-50 partnership with me and sometimes they can actually go out and do that branding on my behalf. So it’s really given me an ability to use some of the weapons of influence. Like I won’t provide further candidates until they give me feedback on another candidate that I had already moved forward. And better able to challenge people internally instead of looking at myself as sort of like I said, an order taker or this is my job, I have to do it exactly like this and I can’t get help. John Patterson: That’s really good. You brought up something earlier, which I think is an important thing to consider because we’re all part of a transaction where I’m involved with another person or the company. So although I might be looking for my perfect job or my perfect role or my perfect fit or my fantasy or fantasy that, that again meets the reality of what they’re looking for. You brought up the lawyer who gets a job as a legal clerk. From the perspective of the market, the market pays what it pays for that particular role regardless of your fantasy. I’d like for you to address that for just a moment. Then I’m going to ask some other questions. So there’s my fantasy and then there’s what the market allows for, is looking for, and so forth. Can you say a little bit about that from your perspective? Helen Kearney: Yeah, for sure. For sure. I think that a lot of people are sort of naive to or don’t want to care about company’s aims. So companies have a complex set of earnings projections and they have to work inside of a budget. And so when a company is designing a job, they say, “Okay, we want it to perform this or that and have achieve these objectives.” And then they budget for it. Oftentimes, companies have actually a compensation philosophy, maybe where they match the market in pay. So they go out to other companies and say, “Hey, what are you paying for this expert level role?” But they have to decide, can I match the market, does my actual salary, I paid this person, can we afford that? So they may create other components to the offer. They might be stock options, they might be a great 401k matching, there are other things outside of this number that’s on paper that sometimes that’s just what the company has. Maybe they’re a startup, maybe they’re a older company. Maybe it’s a new position that they’re funding to try something out and the leadership team is only willing to fund a certain amount. So oftentimes people aren’t looking at that bigger picture of where the company is at. There may be a lot of things behind the scenes that you as a candidate don’t know or understand. Maybe they’re back filling someone that was paid a little bit lower. Again, mid year, mid budget cycle. That’s all they have. And so when I have a candidate that’s a great fit and they get that disappointing ugh offer, that’s maybe not what they were expecting because, “Oh, I went on Glassdoor and I see that Glassdoor pays this or that.” Those are not accurate numbers. It’s important for a candidate to really listen to the offer the company’s putting forward and think about your own realities. Maybe you’ve been laid off for six months and you really need just a paycheck to pay that mortgage. Think about it. So there are other aspects to that picture. John Patterson: And then conversely, what are employers now dealing with about the market of employees? Helen Kearney: So especially like in Denver we have a 3% unemployment rate and there’s this phrase I don’t like about the war on talent. It’s like, well why is there a war? And so some companies are scrambling and just rolling out the red carpet and, “Oh, we’ll give you anything.” And just because you ask for more, “Okay, okay, we’ll give you more. We need that person.” So I respect my company a lot because I actually feel like we’re very committed to pay equity, fair pay equity. And for example, women usually don’t ask for more. They don’t try and negotiate. Whereas men almost always try and ask for more no matter the offer. And so I always tell people, “We put our best offer forward. We don’t negotiate because that perpetuates pay inequity.” So we take a risky stance in that we also have a lot of cultural values that we interview against and we hire people that are going to come forward and be humble but hungry also be just nice. Nice to work with around the office you have have friends. So we’re willing to hang out in that part of the transaction that can be … Most people want to jump forward, “Oh, we need this person. We just got to have them.” And we won’t take the time to, “Yeah, you know what? We’re going to have that position open a little bit longer.” Or for example, in the current right now you hear a lot about diversity, a lot about underrepresented populations and so we are … And I am very specifically interested in this and I have a goal of hiring more women into our specific office. And so the demographics and the data that you can look at through something like LinkedIn show that there is under 30% women in our profession in Denver. So can I commit to bringing more women to the table? Data also shows that if you have more than two underrepresented candidates on a final interview slate, so to speak, all the final candidates, there’s like a 70% higher likelihood that you would hire one of these underrepresented candidates. So to really commit to shifting the needle on diversity hiring, it’s going to take some time and companies need to slow down and not move so fast to do that and shift those changes in their workforce. John Patterson: In terms of the thing that I might do … So let’s just say that I’m interested in beginning to move toward a satisfactory transaction. Being employed in a particular place. What might I do on, say, my LinkedIn profile or my CV, for example, to better position myself towards what I seek or want. What should I do? What should I not do? Helen Kearney: Don’t say you’re a ninja. That’s my [inaudible] “I’m a ninja.” It’s like, okay, maybe at the gym or something. Sparring, karate, something. But no, I think what I was saying earlier about informational interviewing and networking is that talk to the people that are doing the job that you want. Take diligent notes about the themes that are common, the words, how do they measure their success and then craft that into your headline on your LinkedIn in a brief sentence. But then also on your resume, makes sure that each job … That you’re pointing out every previous job, past success in metrics or if you’re a sales person, put our percent of sales to quota achievements, put that you went to Diamond Club, that kind of thing. Because when you submit a resume and you mistakenly attach a cover letter that was addressed to a different company, or you haven’t tailored your resume for the job that you’re applying for, I mean, I’m just going to move on. I mean, I have a lot of resumes to look at in a day and it just … Oftentimes, I will be honest as well that if there’s a referral, that captures my eye more than the 20, 30 applicants for a role. So if you update your resume and that using the narratives of that industry or that particular job, you’re much more likely to get noticed. John Patterson: And then what might I do to properly calibrate my financial expectations for a role in a particular company? Helen Kearney: Yes. I have friends ask me for advice all the time. They get to the offer and they say, “Oh my gosh, this is like 40,000 less than I was expecting.” And the problem is, they don’t ask. So at the front of the interview cycle, you don’t have to play your cards all the way, so to speak, about what you’re making, but just ask, “What is this pay?” I also always ask candidates, what are your goals or your expectations? And people think that that’s some trick question or I’m going to try and use it against them. But the last thing I want to do is take a candidate all the way through the hiring cycle and waste all that time if we’re, like I said, 40,000 off. So just ask up front. It’s okay, you don’t need to play games. Because I’ll tell you also, if you’re talking to other people that are doing this job, ask them what the job pays in the market. You’re not asking them what they make, but then you get a sense and you can break your hopes and dreams right then before even applying for that job. John Patterson: Well, that’s great. Good. Is there anything else that we should know about your own journey or anything else you want to say about your profession or your specialization? Helen Kearney: Maybe this, that for performers, one of the things I have learned is that over use of liking, and for me when I’m having like an internal meeting, I realize that really other personality types and not rambling in meetings or coming in super unprepared has helped me transact internally inside of the corporate environment. Because even though my work is mostly external facing, it’s also really important in corporate America, to be really good with other people beyond just people liking me and having fun and being that person. It’s helped me lean into those personalities as well. It’s helped me better round out the work that I do in terms of, as I was mentioning about the data and really taking the time to study what’s in the marketplace. That’s kind of judged type things and it’s just helps me get along better with people that might have those personalities inside of the office. John Patterson: Fantastic. All right, well, what should people do if they want to reach you? Helen Kearney: They can go to my LinkedIn profile. I believe it’s in the bio. But I would say if people want to reach me, they should network with people, like have a reason to come to me. Don’t just say, “Oh, hey, I met this guy at a barbecue. I think he’d be really great for your company.” Come forward with, “Oh, it looks like you’re a sales recruiter. And it looks like what’s important to your company are people that have sold software. I can see by your job postings. I might be that person.” Or “Hey, I have a referral. They do live in Denver. It looks like you hire people there.” So I do have people come to me all the time like, “Hey, can I spend 15 minutes asking you about that job over coffee.” No, I don’t have time for that. Find out what’s important to me. Get more tailored. I had a person the other day say, “I’m just, I had spent a lot of time trying to get into your company and I’m really frustrated.” It’s like, wow, what? Yeah, job seeking is hard. You know what’s also hard is selling and you’re applying for a selling role. So yeah, always be bringing something that’s a value to the recruiter or to the hiring manager. John Patterson: All right. Well, Helen Kearney, thank you so much for being a guest on the Influence Ecology Podcast. This is going to be very valuable for people. There’s a lot of information here that will both resonate for people about their quest for the perfect job or perfect role and then also for those people who want to think accurately about moving towards that great position. So, thank you so much. Helen Kearney: Thank you. John Patterson: My special thanks to our guest, Helen Kearney. In our show notes, you’ll find links to connect with her and all the links to websites, books, or downloads mentioned to this podcast. The Influence Ecology Podcast is produced by Influence Ecology, LLC in Ventura, California. This episode was recorded March 10th, 2020 and was produced by Tyson Crandall and John Patterson. You can find a transcript for this and other episodes at InfluenceEcology.com. This episode is made possible through the assistance of the Influence Ecology faculty, staff, mentors, and students around the world. Co-founder Kirkland Tibbels and our colleagues comprise an international collective of professionals who are active in the development of the philosophy of Transactionalism and the discipline of Transactional Competence. Kirkland is considered a leading philosopher and authority in the field and he has authored more than 500 papers on the subject, study, and discipline. The podcast theme is by Chris Standring and titled “Fast Train to Everywhere.” You can subscribe to the Influence Ecology Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also find us on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn or via email at [email protected]. If you haven’t yet offered a rating or review, I ask that you take a moment to go to iTunes or your podcast app and let us know what you think. This helps us more than you know. Podcast Bonuses: Helen Kearney on LinkedIn Influence Ecology is the leading business education specializing in Transactional Competence, having published and contributed to the only comprehensive text on the subject, Transactionalism: An Historical and Interpretive Study by Trevor J. Phillips. Co-Founder Kirkland Tibbels has authored more than 500 papers on the subject, study, and discipline of transactional competence and is a sought-after lecturer at universities, major corporations, and civic organizations around the world.  Influence Ecology’s curriculum includes conferences, webinars, online tools, podcasts, and mentorship utilized by men and women in over seventy countries around the world. Our membership includes an international assembly of accomplished professionals, faculty, and peers from a variety of countries, industries, and cultures.

Thomas K.R. Stovall is a subject matter expert on turning subject matter expertise into passive and automated income online. He is an author, a sought after speaker and facilitator, a Google Entrepreneur in Residence, the founder of a patented enterprise microfeedback platform, and the creator of an organization that catalyzes growth for Black and Latinx entrepreneurs (ImBlackInTech.com), with almost 6,000 people in the membership network across 16 countries. For seasoned entrepreneurs, subject matter experts, and business leaders respectively, his approaches teach practical ways to quickly close gaps between intentions and measurable outcomes. He is a gifted story-teller and a wicked-smart man. He first started participating in our programs almost a decade ago (FOT6), and the lessons he’s learned along the way are both humbling and extremely valuable. Listen as he shares the story of his journey.

Jennifer Caldwell is the Chief Development Officer with Food Share of Ventura County and works to feed and nourish the community she has called home for the past 30 years. Under Caldwell’s direction, fundraising events have grown to not only raise more revenue for the food bank but to provide the opportunity to spread the work and mission of Food Share within the community it serves. While nourishing the community, she took a turn to sustain herself, and during the Fundamentals of Transaction Program lost 41 pounds, expanded her value and influence, and doubled her income. She has also come to cherish the daily maintenance required to meet ever-expanding aims for herself and those she serves. In 2018, Caldwell was appointed as the Ventura Chamber of Commerce Chair of the Young Professional Group and honored as one of Pacific Coast Business Times’ 40 Under 40 next up-and-coming business leaders-along with Young Professional of the Year awarded from the Ventura Chamber of Commerce. Caldwell is a fourth-generation resident of Ventura County and resides in Camarillo with her husband and daughter.

Sterling Hawkins grew up a fifth-generation retailer, having to master the intersection of human behavior and technology under extreme competition. In 2004, he co-founded, launched and sold his first technology company, Convena, where he developed innovative approaches to beat competition, handle high-growth and achieve performance no matter the obstacles. He went on to be involved with the launch, growth and investment in over 50 companies. Today, Sterling reviews over 1,000 new technology companies every year further refining the keys to realizing breakthrough innovation and giving back that experience as a mentor to leading entrepreneurs working through exponential growth. He is the co-founder of CART, a platform to drive adoption of emerging technologies at fortune 500 companies. And he speaks and runs workshops around the world for clients such as Samsung, Criteo, Synchrony Financial and the United Nations. Sterling is an internationally-recognized thought leader and top-rated keynote speaker on innovation, transformational leadership and exponential growth. His keynotes share meaningful strategies to drive change delivered with the inspiration to leave attendees in action. Currently living in Los Angeles, he has been seen in Inc. Magazine, Fast Company, The New York Times and Forbes.

César Idrovo is a Business Agility Consultant based in the San Francisco Bay Area. His clients span North America, Europe, and South America and range from startups to companies in the Fortune top 10. He helps leaders generate valuable outcomes in the market by embracing and taking advantage of business uncertainty. His focus is to develop a highly tuned organization that responds to leadership and market signals quickly and is made up of unstoppable teams delivering great products. During his journey with Influence Ecology, he’s overcome prior sacrifices and developed a leadership framework for professionals based on deliberate practice. His goal is that aspiring leaders can experience the freedom and safety to practice small acts of leadership continuously.

As a serial success in the startup space, Dan Murhpy has turned his attention to getting companies to the point of what he calls “just add water,” specifically, working to reduce the cost of scaled growth. While many startups struggle with similar breakdowns, Dan shares a set of practices and techniques to introduce new ways of operating that consistently reveal opportunities for course correction toward the ultimate aims. He addresses how Transactional Competence™ helps him produce the type of thinking, practices, and environment, which are be best suited to satisfy the aims of any organization. His current primary focus is Hi Marley, a software startup that has developed an intelligent conversation platform designed for the Insurance ecosystem. As the head of Product Development, he holds a concern for the fitness of the entire organization and the effective deployment of their resources. He works with their senior leadership team to deal with the natural transition of a startup from working “in the business” to working “on the business.” He helps deal with the breakdowns that reveal themselves on the journey to a high performing organization.

As we teach it, the study of transactional behavior allows each of us to understand both the value and cost of our role in any transaction. For example, rigorous standards are valuable when confronting our limited resources–and at the same time–destructive when gregarious or imaginative moods are required. Too often, we get stuck when we assume our assets or contributions are always a good thing. We are often surprised when they backfire. In 2016, Jeff Miller’s standards had him so imprisoned that the toll to his health finally stopped him in his tracks. Although the money was good, throughout most of his 25-year career, he was miserable. After studying with Influence Ecology, not only has he found peace of mind, he’s found freedom and satisfaction in a new career that takes advantage of his specialized knowledge while also enjoying a new chapter of art, music, and performance.

In 2012, John James and Lauren Cato Robertson started studying with Influence Ecology to develop their massage therapy business and now co-own the Academy where Lauren first trained. Their journey underscores many of the lessons that come with first expanding, then scaling their business. As John James says: It’s been pure joy and frequent discomfort. In this interview, you’ll hear a very transparent view of what it’s like to start and grow a successful and expanding business. We first interviewed the business partners in May of 2017, where they spoke about the early days of working together and going from generalists to specialists. Now, you’ll hear how they’ve continued to transact powerfully and thrive.

Alex Bould works with large tech corporations to shorten their time to market. Working in the San Francisco Bay area, he leads enterprise-scale Agile transformations to help solve billion-dollar problems. In this interview, he talks about how what differentiates market leaders from market followers – and how this is changing. For the longest time, the pursuit of efficiency and productivity has dominated the landscape – higher efficiency and productivity leads to lower costs and lower risks for greater scale. As the marginal return for increased productivity diminishes – the landscape is now shifting – it’s shifting to one where the companies that can outlearn their competition will dominate. Recently he and I worked together to bring Transactional Competence™ into his work with Western Digital Corporation. Western Digital is a Fortune 200 American computer data storage company. Alex is helping companies enter a new era where developing their fitness in how to think accurately is a core competency for any business operating at scale. He also addresses who the speed with which stuff gets done or where hard problems get handled creates a lot of room to move freely in an organization.

At the University of Virginia School of Medicine, I interviewed a group of women about the impact of our programs. I spoke with Ellen Beverly, Dawn Spiller, Olga Kipnis, Carolyn Saint, and Jenn Oliver about how the framework of Transactional Competence has helped them in their roles within the university. What might you wonder is the most surprising outcome? An environment of respect for different roles and personalities. While they each experienced more effectiveness and influence, the ability to understand Personality and Transactional Behavior™ has produced a culture of respect for the both the simple day to day transactions but also for the larger transactions that support the aims of the enterprise. You can hear how Transactional Competence™ provides a framework where each individual can understand their own and other’s role in the transactions we all serve. I apologize in advance that some of the audio quality may be difficult – but stick with it, as there are many great lessons here.

Why do some quit while others bounce back? Chances are you’ve heard tales of Thomas Edison overcoming failure. Edison (1847-1931) most famously invented the long-lasting, practical electric light bulb and is credited with developing devices for electrical power generation, mass communication, sound recording, and motion pictures. As a master of trial and error, these innovations have had a widespread impact on the modern industrialized world. When asked about the many thousands of failures he had when trying to create the light bulb he famously said, “I have not failed. I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work.” Success is not for the faint of heart. Lofty goals are challenging to achieve, and most won’t reach them. But why do some quit while others bounce back? How do some muster up the resilience to try again when faced with failure? Maybe some people are not equipped with the constitution to handle failing, much less, repetitive failure. Likely, most of us wouldn’t stomach 10,000 failures in search of success. So, how do we develop the resilience we’ll require for our ambitions? Perhaps it is useful to consider resilience in a new light. What if it isn’t an inherent trait or behavioral characteristic? What if it isn’t something fate happens to bestow upon us. Maybe there is something we’ve overlooked. What if resilience is not an individual trait but to a greater extent, an environmental phenomenon? In today’s’ episode, we’ll hear Kim Corbett, a poster-child for resilience, talk about how she’s built a surplus of help to bounce back during challenging times.

We all assume we can play to our strong suits – but what about when those don’t work? How do I influence or gain compliance when being likable is my primary tool – and it sometimes backfires? As we teach it, all personalities experience themselves as both an asset AND a liability depending on the state of the transaction. For example, if we’re brainstorming new possibilities, it doesn’t work for skeptics to chime in with critical standards. However, skepticism is required if we’re making assessments about the value and relevance of something. In today’s’ interview, our guest, Janet Vreeland, found herself puzzled when her attempts to be likable were met with disdain. We discuss how each personality may not know that their most powerful asset – can also be their most costly mistake.

Twin Studies have been used for decades to settle the age-old Nature vs. Nurture debate about human behavior: are we hardwired to act according to our biological blueprint, or does our environment influence our behavior or gene expression? Twin Study research has helped find answers to questions on space travel, obesity, IQ, and much more. Empirical evidence has settled the debate for good. The answer? We are both Nature AND Nurture. But what about a Digital Twin…and what can it teach us? A digital twin is a real-time digital replica of a living or non-living physical entity. This replication is used to find the root cause of issues -or- experiment with changes before they are implemented in real-time. Neil Calvert and his company LINQ model your business with a digital twin – helping organizations experiment with future opportunities before investing in change and transformation. Think of it as Twin Studies for organizations – offering decisions based in evidence.

In a 2015 speech, American actress, producer, and entrepreneur, Reese Witherspoon launched a campaign to support women and their aspirations, with the battle-cry, “Ambition is not a dirty word.” In 2018, Oprah Winfrey interviewed Reese Witherspoon & American actress, comedian, writer, producer, and director, Mindy Kaling to talk about that moment. Growing up in lower-middle-class Texas, Influence Ecology CFO, Darryl Anderle was raised to think of Ambition as a negative word – it had selfish connotations. It seemed as if the standard for success was to get noticed for being independent, self-reliant, and hard-working; waiting for someone to consider him for advancement…which never came. In our interview today, you’ll hear how his life is now very different; how a little ambition can go along way to satisfy our aims. Here’s the interview.

Phyllis Eleanor Tichinin has always struggled to have her contrary voice heard amongst the mainstream. Raised rurally in the once fruit-filled Santa Clara Valley, she earned her education as a soil scientist and environmental manager at the University of California Davis. Now in New Zealand, she raised her two children on her deceased husband’s family farm. She is currently involved in consulting and activism to remove biocides from our food supply and environment. During her studies with Influence Ecology, she discovered how to have her voice heard. As we teach it, the marketplace is indifferent to us and our aims. If we want our voice (or inviations, offers, and requests) heard, we might need to understand how to excite or agitate the indifference in others–to awaken them from their stupor. Like many who study here, there comes a time when the fact of an indifferent marketplace is accepted. We recommend that you don’t wage battle with gravity or indifference; you’ll lose. Instead, you must learn to work with it. So how do you and I transact in an indifferent world? In this interview, you’ll hear more.

From time to time, I’ll explain Influence Ecology and our approach by telling a story about the ABC television series American Idol. The award-winning series involves discovering recording stars from unsigned singing talents. The winner receives a record deal with a major label. In one audition listed in the category of “worst of the worst” from Season 4, Mary Roach, sings “I Feel the Earth Move” by Carole King. When finished, a gobsmacked Simon Cowell asks, “what made you audition for this competition!?” Mary replies, “all my friends told me I was an awesome singer.” Simon responds, “Mary, not only can you not sing, you have one of the weirdest voices I’ve ever heard in my entire life.” Mary responds, “many people around me have told me I have an amazing voice…random people I don’t know have agreed.” With great care, Paul Abdul says, “Mary, they lied to you…” …and we all know why – we live amongst people who don’t want to kill our dreams. They want to give us hope. They want to stroke our confidence and make us feel good about ourselves. Sometimes we even surround ourselves with people too much like ourselves and we can fall prey to a group bias for thinking we’re winning when we’re not…or making the right choices when we’re not. In Mary’s case, her friends and family could have told her she was a mediocre singer. They could have saved her wasted time, an emotional toll, and international humiliation. They could have said to her that if she aspired to sing, that through practice, she might sing one day and if good enough, possibly consider American Idol. So, how do we find our ignorance, challenge our hubris, and confront our naivete? Where can we find a means to see a correct reflection of our selves as others see us? Who gives us an accurate read of ourselves and our aims – before we spend time, energy, and money – before we make poor choices? In today’s episode, we’ll hear how Influence Ecology has helped Paul Adams see an accurate reflection for himself – and how he helps his customers do the same. Paul shares how he’s growing his company with a team that genuinely supports his aims – and where their freedom to check his “inventor” hubris is cherished. Paul Adams and Sound Financial Group help those making annual incomes of $300K to $2M secure their financial independence. Like Influence Ecology, Paul and his team are hired to help people confront their naivete so they live satisfying lives. Here’s the interview.

Trisha Tyler began studying with Influence Ecology in 2012. She was single, struggling to transform a team’s performance, and had a fair amount of consumer debt. During her early participation, Tricia became a disciple of accurate thinking as it made her a better leader and decision-maker, good mentor, and coach. As a graduate of our curriculum, she is now married, has had several promotions and raises and now lives a life of surplus - a surplus of income, freedom, and adventure. Her experience and her journey are a case study in the kind of accurate thinking and planning that allows for living an inspiring life.

I’m often confounded by those who claim to know something but can’t teach it to me. The famous Nobel winning physicist Richard Feynman understood the difference between knowing something and knowing the name of something, and it’s one of the most important reasons for his success. Richard Feynman lived from 1918 to 1988. He made his mark first with his work on the Manhattan Project then won a Nobel Prize for his work in developing an understanding of quantum mechanics, and finally was a much-loved professor of undergraduate physics at Caltech University. As he explains it, there are two types of knowledge, and most of us focus on the wrong one. The first type of knowledge focuses on knowing the name of something. The second focuses on, well – knowing something. These are not the same thing. Your competence first depends on the accuracy of your understanding. He developed an intuitive way to understand called The Feynman Technique. The Feynman Technique starts with writing out something as if to teach it to a child. If you struggle, you have a clear understanding of where you have some gaps. That tension allows you to discover the edge of your knowledge. As competence begins with knowing the limit of your abilities – this is where the learning starts. Go back to the source material and re-learn it until you can explain it in basic terms. Then organize the concept into a simple story that flows. Read it aloud. If the explanation isn’t simple or sounds too confusing, that’s a good indication that your understanding in that area still needs some work. But if you genuinely want to be sure of your understanding, run it past someone (ideally who knows little of the subject). The ultimate test of your knowledge, Feynman asserts, is your capacity to convey it to another. This conveyance is where competence and teaching go hand in hand. Learning is a reciprocal, cooperative effort, requiring inquiry and engagement on the parts of both students and teachers. In doing so, both parties learn a great deal about the subjects AND themselves. Together they discover something new while validating or modifying their approach, understanding and the application of that knowledge in practice. On knowing something Feynman says; “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself — and you are the easiest person to fool.” Joe and Joni Rocco are life-long learners. Married for 20 years, with four children and a thriving business, they have a newfound role as teachers to their family, their employees, and the community. They own Artistic Floors by Design, a boutique wood floor contracting business in Denver, offering Colorado’s only Nationally Certified, Award-Winning Wood Floor Advanced Master Craftsman. Studying with Influence Ecology since 2013, their income has increased, their relationship and family life has improved, and they are working on training their employees to experience the same satisfaction with their skills. We interviewed them in 2016 and as part of our ‘where are they now’ series, wanted to offer an update. To develop her competence, Joni has graciously offered to mentor other students at Influence Ecology and more recently, joined our faculty. Why? Teaching allows mastery not found by any other means.

Marcus “Bellringer” Bell is an American music producer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist, singer, social media influencer, activist and entrepreneur. Having first participated with Influence Ecology in March of 2012, we interviewed him in Aug 2016 - and focused on deliberate practice - that "most people don't and won't practice". His piano practice began at age 2 with his first record company by 12 years old. In his lifetime he has marketed and promoted, produced, remixed and written for, mentored and developed some of the world’s biggest superstars and brands including Nicki Minaj, Katy Perry, Snoop Dogg, Timbaland, Sony Music, Warner Brothers, Arista Records, EMI and Universal Music. He has also created music for worldwide brands such as McDonald's, General Mills, and Peter Diamandis. Bell has also written and produced chart-topping songs for artists in Turkey, Lebanon, India, Japan, Korea, and Europe. Today, we talk about how to go from unknown to known - and what it means to be well known. After the break, we'll listen in on a webinar where Co-Founder Kirkland Tibbels and I talk about our career identity and how some people may not truly understand how powerful this is.

Knowing Requires Doing and Fitness Requires Practice with Suzanne Pool

Influential Environments with Christopher Mercier

Asking for Help with Moira Clay

The Bankruptcy of Magical Thinking with Kristen Moeller

We all think we know more than we actually do. Do you know how paper is made? How does a toilet work? How about a pen? Our species has produced sophisticated technologies, cities, and accomplishments, but most of us don’t honestly know how these things work. How can we aspire to so much despite understanding so little? Perhaps genius is instead found in the ways we co-opt the intelligence of the social ecology: Our collaborative minds enable us to aspire to great things. In the 2017 book The Knowledge Illusion, cognitive scientists Steven Sloman and Philip Fernbach argue that we survive—and thrive—despite our mental shortcomings because we live in a vibrant community of knowledge, continually drawing on information and expertise stored in the community with which we transact. Cory Shepherd, president and financial advisor of Sound Financial Group, is a case study in our mantra: Dreams come true in groups. We can accomplish our loftiest aims when immersed amongst an ecology of resourceful, intelligent, and ambitious mentors and peers. Previously, Cory was convinced that as long as he thought positively and worked hard, everything would turn out. Now, he has moved away from laborious work to harness the knowledge and power of the group. In our Guru Talk, we'll hear Co-Founder Kirkland Tibbels address how what we know is expanded by membership in groups that help us meet our aims.

Swimming in possibilities and excitement might be more detrimental than we think. As a biological ‘exchange animal,’ our moods and transactions are inextricably linked. We read or mimic the moods of others faster than we recognize their words. We’ve all learned the hard way that a text or email can’t include the wordless cues like mood, body language, appearance, inflection, and more. Might we sometimes produce moods that are inappropriate for transacting? John Severson, of Severson Compass & Associates, a Los Angeles-based travel and venue company, offers a case study in the dangers of being oriented around too many possibilities. In today’s Guru Talk, you’ll hear Co-Founder Kirkland Tibbels discuss how appropriate moods are not always positive moods—and how a little too much excitement might be dangerous.

Jenn Oliver, Senior Director of Service for the Academic Division at the University of Virginia, has learned a valuable lesson about what we refer to as "putting the mask on first." Before her study with Influence Ecology, primarily, other people's needs informed her plans. Her work was oriented only around doing for others, leaving her overwhelmed and aimless. Like many people, she was waiting for others to notice her value and reward her accordingly. She now takes care of herself and her aims first before assisting others. She's learned to decline requests, respect her own aims, and spend time on what matters to her personally and professionally. Her interview demonstrates how she has expanded her value while gaining more time, more money, and more focus. In our Guru Talk, Co-Founder Kirkland Tibbels teaches about the willingness to decline and how doing so produces more authority—and freedom.

Simon Chesney's journey is a case study in the benefits of evolving from a talented generalist to a unique specialist. He's learned that specialization and differentiation can help him build a valued identity and that it’s possible to incorporate and combine his past experiences and expertise with his newly acquired specialized knowledge. Simon Chesney is an Enterprise Agile Coach for Western Digital, an American Fortune 200 data storage company headquartered in San Jose, California. Agile Development refers to a group of software development methodologies based on iterative development, where requirements and solutions evolve through collaboration between self-organizing cross-functional teams.

Ever found inspiration in the William H. Murray quote: "Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it! Boldness has genius, magic, and power in it”? How about this one by Daniel Burnham: "Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood and probably themselves will not be realized"? While these statements do seem to inspire action, perhaps boldness for its own sake is overrated . . . or a bit too, well, magical. Maybe there are other ways to stir men's blood. Perhaps there is a balance of dreaming and pragmatism that in fact speeds up results by first slowing down to think accurately about our aims, our resources, and our plans. Matthew Jackson is an Auckland entrepreneur and investor who makes no little plans. He's created a wellness solution for corporate New Zealand to increase their wellness ROI with Telehealth, making GP consultations available online through Doctor2Go as an extension of their corporate wellness strategy. Matthew is one of those innovative entrepreneurs offering unique solutions to some of our most significant challenges in the healthcare sector. His study here taught him that boldness isn't always magical.

Influence Ecology launched its first podcast episode in August of 2016 and saw our listener base grow to 70 countries and counting. This episode is our 50th, and my special guest is Influence Ecology's very own Kirkland Tibbels. You often hear him on the Guru Talk that underscores the primary point of each episode. Today, we get to learn about his own journey and why transactional competence matters—especially now. Kirkland Tibbels is co-founder and chairman of Influence Ecology—an international education company specializing in the field of transactional competence. Kirkland and his colleagues comprise an international collective of professionals who are active in the development of the philosophy of Transactionalism and the discipline of transactional competence. He is considered a leading philosopher and authority in the field, having published and contributed to the only comprehensive text on the subject, Transactionalism: An Historical and Interpretive Study by Trevor J. Phillips, and he has authored more than 500 papers on the subject, study, and discipline. He is a sought-after lecturer at universities, major corporations, and civic organizations around the world.

Is it better to be more selfless or more selfish? If you’re like most people, you probably treat one of these behaviors as the more preferred way to act. But have you ever considered that in either case, someone gets reciprocally dismissed? Those too selfless can leave others enabled while devaluing themselves; those too selfish can leave others neglected while isolating themselves. Is there a healthy balance . . . perhaps a middle ground? Like many people, Sarah Shepherd discovered that her desire to lead a good and virtuous life eventually proved too selfless to meet her aims for health, work, and money. And like many people, her selflessness is often contrasted against a standard that this is a better state than selfishness. However, perhaps both selflessness and selfishness carry the same ailment and cure—that you are always an aspect, never an entity. In this episode, we’ll find out more about what this means and how considering oneself ‘always an aspect, never an entity’ is a fundamental precept of transactionalism: We are never separate from the environments (or transactions or processes) that we occupy. Our Guru Talk includes a segment from our 2018 Annual Member Conference in Los Cabos, Mexico which presents a deeper dive into the philosophy that guides this thinking as well as some revelations from the too-selfish end of the selfless-selfish spectrum. For the past 12 years, Sarah Shepherd’s company, Circuit Rider of Colorado, has served dozens of local special districts, governments, and non-profits, specializing in natural resource conservation with a team-building approach of “Shared Leadership for Local Governments.” Motivated by the vision of non-violent communities through individual empowerment, Sarah co-founded IMPACT Personal Safety of Colorado (2010) and served as Executive Director until 2016. Sarah remains a board advisor to IMPACT. She has served as President (2014-2016), legislative policy advocate, and member of Board of the Colorado Coalition Against Sexual Assault since 2013. Sarah is an Ariel Fellow with a degree in “The Great Books,” Philosophy and History of Mathematics, from St. John’s College in Santa Fe and post-grad work in Philosophy of Aesthetics from the Marchutz School in Aix-en-Provence, France. It’s been Sarah’s privilege to study with Influence Ecology since 2012.