🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/👕 BUY OUR MERCH HEREG'day Fearmongers —On the podcast this week: Sami Shah makes his case to be the new host of Q+A.It is compelling.We also dive into the ethics of the guy who got both the Astra Zeneca vaccine, and the Pfizer vaccine, and look at how the Australian Government is trying to do the numbers to delay UNESCO's decision to put the Great Barrier Reef on the endangered list.Close the hatch, and have your skittles ready with fearmongers:Dan IlicLewis HobbaJenny Tian& Sami ShahYours, truly waiting for a vaccine.Dan  🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/👕 BUY OUR MERCH HERE  ______________COMPUTER TRANSCIPTDan Ilic  0:00  Get a Louis Hello Daniel. How are you? Look I'm well I have. We've had about a month off this podcast because thanks to Coronavirus, several shows have been cancelled and I want to I want everybody to know I decided we should start the podcast again to sell our Melbourne shows. Because we have Melbourne to Melbourne shows on sale for the middle of August and today, they will also cancel congratLewis Hobba  0:23  we should just book shows that we know we can't sell just be like,Dan Ilic  0:28  yeah, where are the ends? Where the MC j?Lewis Hobba  0:31  Yeah, like through the MCG in early August.Dan Ilic  0:34  I did it for a comedy festival prank which would be to actually book like a conference room in the MC j and only do three nights during festival and then order some gigantic billboard saying Dan illage mc g three nights only. And when you turn up you have to go up to the like the members standard. I mean like this.Lewis Hobba  0:54  Yeah, yeah, I gotta do that. So more show up more cancelled shows which is great. But really good to be back then.Dan Ilic  1:01  Yes, it is good. Yes, I'm recording my end of irrational feet on gadigal land and the eora nation. sovereignty was never ceded. We need a treaty. Let's start the show.Unknown Speaker  1:09  A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks cambroUnknown Speaker  1:16  COMM And section 14, our rational view recommended listening by immature audience.Dan Ilic  1:22  Tonight the Tokyo Olympics opening ceremony is hours away. But critics are saying that it's a mistake to allow delta to perform. And Jeff Bezos flies into space to feel what it's like to no longer be the richest man on earth. And it's got Morrison regret saying that the vaccine rollout is not a race when clearly it is the race that has stopped the nation. It is the 21st of July 2021 and this is the podcast that unifies the entire world. This is irrational fear.Welcome to irrational fear. I'm your host former Queensland premier Dan Ilic. Let's meet our female guest for tonight. First up is a Melbourne man who is quite satisfied with the gold standard containment of the Coronavirus in New South Wales. It's Sammy Shah How you doing everyone? I'm quite quite loving this lockdown life that we've already presented with I've decided that's the approach I'm taking everyone is taking it I'm gonna be the weirdo who loves it it's gonna be my brand that's my that's mysemi locked in shot. Next is a Sydney stand up comedian. He was definitely okay with not being able to do gigs to earn money is Jenny tiaan Hi. Yeah, I'mJenny Tian  2:42  also in lockdown at the moment. I'm the opposite of Sami. I have been dying here. I've been doing a haircut tutorial off tic Tock and now it looks like I've got like three. One. My hair looks like a decorative rug, honestly.Dan Ilic  2:58  Well, I'm glad you said that. Because finally our final guest while in lockdown allowed his girlfriend to cut his own here. It's Louis hava.Lewis Hobba  3:05  Yes. And look at these beautiful results. Obviously, the hair on the top of the head I think is actually pretty good. The moustache which you can see on the podcast, so let me describe it to you. Yeah, and everyone loves it. No, no. 100% definitely no one calling me a sex pest or sex tester Jason. Descriptions like 80s PE teacher, which is essentially the same thing.Sami Shah  3:29  It's very 70s German porn star was definitely got a vibe there is to get a moustache. We're like if you walk into a car dealership, they give you the white band band. Like clearly you this is your calling.Dan Ilic  3:48  We're better for it for having you here. Louis. Thank you so much. Hey, I don't know if you folks noticed this. But while we're on hiatus for the podcast, irrational fear made it into the New York Times. Yeah, yeah, yeah. During um, during the break when the government put out their ad for the Coronavirus campaign, the scare tactic ad, the one that used that use matrix green, no one uses matrix green anymore, but they insisted on using matrix green to scare people in getting a vaccine. I made a parody of that and put it up on a rational fear. And we got into the New York Times well done. Well done, which is huge.Lewis Hobba  4:25  Yeah, no one buys newspapers anymore.Dan Ilic  4:30  Tragic consequence there our sponsor for this way. She was a 39 year old non essential graphic designer who was merely eight months away from being eligible for a Pfizer vaccine. And yet, she refused to enrol herself into St. Joseph's College. Let's be COVID-19 together, turn 40 sooner or be the son of liberal party donors. spoken by someone who never be held to account from the either hold a syringe to BB and gamma. Brilliant. Thank you. Thank you. The same in the original ad that really Got me was that they just made it so easy to rip and parody. It was it was a parody proof. It was like a parody. Open slather because they had no voiceover over the top of it. And you can rip it and add your own voiceover. I encourage everybody to do it. It's easy to do. Yeah, I mean, I saw that I thought it was the real ad. Are you any closer to 40? Jedi? Oh, yeah, yeah, exactly. That's precisely Yeah.Sami Shah  5:29  Am I the oldest person here today? Am I the only one over 40? Actually,Dan Ilic  5:33  are you the only one vaccinated?Sami Shah  5:35  I've had one round I got I got one round of AstraZeneca. So I've had the first round of Astra. And by the way at the reaction, like I was shivering and shaking and like it was Yeah, it was very much what you know, this is like one o'clock in the morning when I'm lying in a puddle of my own sweat. I was like, maybe the anti vaxxers have a point. The next morning, I was fine again. But yeah, I've had one round so I'm still not Delta proof. But I'm a little bit closer. Yeah,Lewis Hobba  6:05  I'm not 40 obviously I still work at Triple J. They'd put a bolt in your head when you hit 40 I I'm one round Dean as well. So I'm bad people. No, I'm fine. I'm fancy as hell.Jenny Tian  6:22  So one round in five. were late. Everyone getting Pfizer's?Dan Ilic  6:28  I'm the only one out here in Bondi Beach note vexes.Sami Shah  6:31  What's going on? You're in ground zero. is basically dry humping patient zero of the new Delta out. You don't have a vaccine. Well, thisDan Ilic  6:43  is the first story for today is Sydney man who's received his fourth dose of Coronavirus taxane. He's doubled up he's done the AstraZeneca and the Pfizer. This is last week. 34 year old Tom Lee got to lots of vaccines over the last month. Jenny, do you think this is fair that this guy's has gone and doubled, doubled up his vaccines? You know,Jenny Tian  7:05  what I think is really genius about it is that the what the way he did it was that he just hung around vaccination centres basically. And then just went and like, ask people and then he managed to get him. So I reckon he's kind of a genius.Dan Ilic  7:19  I think this is probably a good strategy for everyone. Just to look,Sami Shah  7:23  this is very much how most comedians start their career as well. You just got a club and you hang around until finally they're like, Alright, do you want to get on stage in fact, is also how most ABC employees start their career. How I got mine by just going to hang out with God or they got embarrassed gave me a job. So if that works in Australia for these two industries, it makes sense it would work for everything else in the country as well. You know what, I'm gonna start hanging your curability just roaming around kirribilli waiting to be the next pm eventually you will get embarrassed and make me pm.Dan Ilic  7:57  I was thinking about this today, Sammy, I was thinking Chief, I reckon I would have been a really awesome Prime Minister. 18 months ago, I could have foreseen all of this and put in a bunch of shit. Rather than read to fix Coronavirus before I got this bad before.Sami Shah  8:14  This is exactly like when you watch the Winter Olympics and you sit there and those Olympic skiers are going downhill bobbing and weaving and you're sitting at home on your couch or the remote going on. Please, I could do better than that. Semi gravity does mostDan Ilic  8:28  of the works. Gravity doesn't work. Of course you can. I'm a short man. I'm a short heavyset man. I've got I've got gravity on my side brother.Sami Shah  8:38  saying let's give Scott Morrison the benefit of the doubt clearly, he's doing the best he can. And it is it is ablest to make fun of someone doing the best they can, with the best they can is just that.Lewis Hobba  8:50  Definitely was he was just looking. He wasn't the Prime Minister. He was just there. Then he was third in line and two he Bradbury's way like it he 100% followed this.Sami Shah  9:01  It was like the movie The death of Stalin but with none of the cleverness, intelligence. Ravi das personality, not a political savvy or any of those things, as he was nothing like the movie death of Stalin.Jenny Tian  9:16  Unless in the movie, he went over to the UK to get like a DNA test and find his ancestry.Dan Ilic  9:26  Or the Death Star the story I saw death of Stalin at at the Sundance Film Festival but I had 100 idea.Lewis Hobba  9:33  I had an edible unvaccinatedSami Shah  9:44  I saw this story right now this bond guy scum story on vaccine anti vaxxer data. I saw the death of Stalin in Cannes Film Festival while having an edible. Were you wearing thongs and running up to the manboobs flapping in the breeze.Dan Ilic  10:02  Sammy, it was Sunday. It wasLewis Hobba  10:06  one day So Dan will be Sundance and on your grey live out drain.Dan Ilic  10:13  I had an edible before the show and I was having a great time and I was laughing my head off. But none of the Americans in the audience were enjoying it as much as I was. And then during the q&a, I decided I said to myself, Oh my, I love Armando Iannucci, I've got to go meet him and and he and I got down to the second or first row and at the Sundance Film Festival, and after QA, I was so stoned that I walked out, Damon said, Amanda, and then I can't remember anything I said something about being a satirist to you and I was satirise, but I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure it was just a jumble of fucking consonants and vowels. AndSami Shah  10:59  anyway, I'm on our Patreon subscribers. I just say for the recordUnknown Speaker  11:06  as a politician, the vaccine rollout inDan Ilic  11:09  Australia is a shit show. It is just a mess. And Scotty from marketing has got to take some of the responsibility for it. That was exactly the point I was making just about a rational fear exactly the point. Our second fear this week is who will replace Hamish MacDonald on q&a. Yes, Hamish MacDonald has quit the ABC said no more. And he's now kind of back to the project where he came STEMI Have you got any ideas about who may replace Hamish MacDonald on q&a?Sami Shah  11:39  I mean, there's who should replace him and then who will replace him? Right. Well, two separate conversations. The first thing is I do know that announcement I know that announcement very well, which is when they say he's moving on to other projects. It means the ratings in work out the way we were hoping they would we're going to not continue his contract. We might even end his contract early. And we're going to make it sound like it's all his decision while the real people whose fault it is that the show is no good and basically unwatchable. Who are the producers and executive producers on the show will continue on their contracts getting the salaries that they will get it again, anyway, fuck off. Poor Hey, Mitch, because it is not his fault. It was a shit show. And he was hosting a shit show. But regardless, he's gone. Here's why. I think you want to know my honest opinion other than myself, and I genuinely think I do a fine. Good job.Dan Ilic  12:29  Sammy, this is my pointer. Well, I want to hear you say I want to hear you give the case yourself. Ah, all right. Here's the fuckingSami Shah  12:36  right, let's fucking do this. But it's a debate show. In the end q&a is a debate show. And believe it or not, but I was a world class debater growing up in high school. In university, I paid my way to university, not to prostitution the way young man does. I did it to debate competitions. What kind of world class nerd Do you have to be to be a debater? Who pays his university fees? Using the money and winning to debate that was me? All right. Go on. These kinds of shows which due date have been so bland, so utterly boring, so lacking in personality that the hosts were interchangeable with planks of wood and wood had the exact same low ratings? I'll do it. I'll make it funny. I'll call bullshit when butcher is said I will fact check people do we revisit regular diligence that never happens? And at the same time, encourage good conversation? How many times do you watch q&a? And the conversation is about to get spicy, too. People start arguing and then the presenter goes, Okay, we don't have time for that. We want a viral clip on YouTube and we can comment on Twitter about cutting the conversation short. The hackers job is just making sure everything's as black is a cream. No, fuck off. Let me host the show. But no, they never gonna do it. Then I'm going to give it to me. Give to Nicki and Louie. We're going to give it to anyone with a vaguely interesting you know who's going to get the show. It will be Spears, it will be fucking David Spears, who's the only person who can make Anthony Albanese look at Nick. He's so fucking dumb. All right, and he's going to be the next presenter of the boring show on Australian television history. Wait until the ratings go completely into the toilet. q&aJenny Tian  14:32  that was so beautiful. I'm so inspired.Sami Shah  14:37  I need this much semi. Yeah, imagine meeting one of those beautiful rants on television. You're like I'm pretty sure we got guests to talk. You're This show once by the way, I turned it down three times. Show one time I sat next to Jim Jim molan. That's right, and who's unfortunately now very tragically been diagnosed with cancer. And I'm not making fun of him at all for that, but I will say that he had the worst breath I've ever smelled on being when sitting next to him. Every time he spoke, I had to lean back in into my seat so that the breath would walk past the present.Lewis Hobba  15:28  What is that a intubating? Is there any rules against that? Or is that quite a good tactic sort ofSami Shah  15:33  tactic? That is that is basically that the blackout said he was well versed inLewis Hobba  15:40  if, if we're taking the lurking approach, if we think that lurking around somewhere is what gets you the job, someone should whoever wants to hush. It should look back on Monday nights. His wife or whoever is currently logging on Monday night. I don't know what shows, but just move it back there and whoever's currently hosting it 830 on a Monday give it to them.Dan Ilic  16:00  I've got a plan. I can get into the building. I can do some working every day. Yeah, I'll take the leftovers no dignity. Jenny, do you have any ideas about who you'd like to host q&a?Jenny Tian  16:13  Dude like after hearing Sammy talk I'm just like wow, I had no idea that was like so much that went behind it and into it I am team Sammy like all the way that's that's my final decision. I haven't considered anyone else. I haven't seen any other candidates but I've been moved.Dan Ilic  16:30  I think giving it to somebody who wants it is a good idea is a good first stepSami Shah  16:35  that's been believes it I career so far is trying to get up to host q&a and they refuse to give it to him. Now Ronnie just being cruel. They give me give it to everyone in Australia, but valida Lee.Dan Ilic  16:46  Well, I know that you know Wiley, Dali and Hamish are represented by the same agency. Maybe they're trying to do some kind of swap crazy swap here. That's interesting.Sami Shah  16:55  Oh, look, it's I think he would be amazing. I think if he got it because of how polarising he is. That alone would drive viewership numbers up. Because you would either people who like Walid would watch it people just like what do you hate? Watch it, but they'd watch it regardless. And also Yeah, he conducts debate. Well, I think he's more interesting. And you get more personality out of it. He me, she's an amazing journalist. And way but they need to revamp the show. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter who's presenting it. If the show is still present, like structured the same way it will be boring.Dan Ilic  17:25  I agree. I think heimish is one of the best brains in journalism in Australia. Like he's so yeah, he's so good. And I think there is fundamental problems with with the show itself. Yeah. That's the fundamental problem. Yeah. Can you believe they moved in? Why would you move it off on a rock star rock step Monday night that's been there for 20Lewis Hobba  17:44  years. It's crazy. Like if you whoever made that decision should be should be going back to the project. Like it's crazy to me.Dan Ilic  17:53  I really like this from Tim Schumer on YouTube. He says friendly Jordi should host a q&a.Sami Shah  18:00  Yeah, get the use of it. I'm not saying I wouldn't watch it. Wouldn't you watch it?Lewis Hobba  18:04  Yeah, I wouldn't be very compelling. No. No, I like myself. No. But I didn't watchSami Shah  18:11  it anyway. So they did not watch it. But yeah,Dan Ilic  18:14  all right. This week's third theatre, this might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. The coalition believes it has the numbers to stop the Great Barrier Reef is being in listed as in danger from UNESCO. So what's happened is over the last month, the UNESCO has decided that the Great Barrier Reef is going to be listed as in danger. But to stop that from happening, the coalition government has sent Susan lay the environment minister on a seven stop whistle stop tour eight days to talk to every ambassador to the UN for various countries to try and prevent this from happening. It's like why why are they doing this and not sending our health minister to go and get Pfizer vaccine? Why? What it's what benefit is there to try and get a whole bunch of people to not vote that the Great Barrier Reef is in mortal danger when it clearly is dying before our very eyes. fee mongers. What do you think about this, Jenny?Jenny Tian  19:09  I think it's quite hilarious that they've decided to send her on this trip over a plane and she's supposed to be the environmental minister.Dan Ilic  19:17  Yeah, why don't why don't they send her over zoom like everybody else? Yeah. Yeah. No, it's it's quite, it's quite astounding to kind of see the kind of other people that they're talking to. And Australia's trying to shore up votes in the UN with the likes of Bahrain and Saudi Arabia, and the Maldives and Mali and a whole bunch of other countries that are extensively bad actors. AndSami Shah  19:42  why don't we just do what we normally do in the situation in which every country normally does this situation is you go to narrow and you give them $25 and a can of pineapples or whatever, it is a bribe narrow these days, and they just vote in your favour and then as a result, you get why you have to go to seven whole other Countries ought toLewis Hobba  20:01  actually do what we've historically done with the UN which is just wait for them to tell us about committing human rights abuses and then say we don't care.Dan Ilic  20:10  This is why it's so amazing that the this government actually cares at all about the, the kind of threatening of the Great Barrier Reef at all, according to you, and why do they care about this and not care about our gross human rights abuses? LikeJenny Tian  20:23  Well, I've got a theory I reckon it because the thing is, they're just kind of like delaying it till later. So it's like they're just putting in a lot of effort right now to basically procrastinate like you would if it was like a big university final assignment and they're like, we're going to just take a look at it at the last minuteLewis Hobba  20:43  or the dream would be to kick it down just long enough till after the next election. And then if they kind of like well if we when we deal with it if we lose someone else's problem,Dan Ilic  20:52  but that's exactly what they're doing so they actually putting off the vote they actually tried to convince the UNESCO to put up the vote to 2023 so that's exactly what they're doing Louis is the on parity. Fuck I hate I hate that.Sami Shah  21:10  politician using these. Her travel plan for the eight days. This is a legit thing. This is this. These are places she went to over eight days. So it was Budapest to Paris, Paris to Madrid, Madrid back to Paris, Paris to Sarajevo, Sarajevo back to Paris, Paris to Maldives via Oman, Maldives to AustraliaJenny Tian  21:33  to the ground is that the film around the world in 80 days?Sami Shah  21:39  Just around 30 countries 80 days but like that, that is basically a lot of air miles to get together to destroy the Great Barrier Reef which leaves a really good job of doing single handedlyLewis Hobba  21:52  Can I say if the Maldives if they as like a group of island nations who are sinking ifSami Shah  21:59  theyLewis Hobba  22:01  vote against this, like that is that is the biggest cellphone you just got. No, no, this has got to be the sort of this is gonna be the only things you care about. Like you're going under.Dan Ilic  22:14  Yeah, the boundaries is literally a nation built on top of a coral reef voting against their entire interest. Yeah, oh, well, we're all gonna die.Lewis Hobba  22:27  So the thing is, now that there are so many different options as to how, you know two years ago was definitely climate change. Now it could be anything.Dan Ilic  22:36  I'm speaking of Coronavirus and other diseases destroying Australia I don't know if you saw this the the unfortunately the the Australian Grand Prix has been replaced with something else. This November. Milburn's biggest event is set to blow you away like COVID clearing your social calendar strapped in to witness all the action at Albert Park racetrack like birds mating. JIRA ticket to see Lakeside drive lit up with a groundskeeper riding a lawnmower in the distance and catch all the action off the track with the colour and movement of the Melbourne cities Falun Gong practitioners. Melbourne is set to be silent this November. The Australian non pray a ticket will buy you a whole seat. But you'll only need the edge or probably no seat at all because the grass is going to be pretty nice. Now that's much better. Good these right now I'm praying. Alright folks, well, I don't know if you saw this. But Jeff Bezos went into space and and he went up and he went down. He spent like four minutes in space. And he floated around and threw some Skittles around when he got back down the hill at a press conference about that journey. And he actually gave a shout out to a bunch of people about his time in space. I want to thankUnknown Speaker  24:11  every Amazon employees and every amazon customer because you guys paid for all this. So seriously, for every amazon customer out there. And every Amazon employee thank you from the bottom of my heart very much.Dan Ilic  24:28  Does that does that make me wait you want to throw up as it makes as much as it makes me wonder?Sami Shah  24:33  Do you remember the instal those booths in every Amazon factory where it was like a solitary space booth where you could go inside and you could cry or scream or pee into a bottle or whatever? and Amazon employees do when they when they get a moment alone. That booth is filled with just Amazon employees ripping their own skin off their bodies right. Your rage that matters embody a midlife crisis more. I have been divorced getting together.Lewis Hobba  25:06  Did you ever consider getting a divorce cowboy hat?Sami Shah  25:09  No. For some reason I had just enough dignity to stop myself from doing that. I did go blonde. So I got older. But yes, clearly there I had enough.Lewis Hobba  25:18  The best case, like if you were to try to like present that in the best possible case, if you would like to go back in time you like guys in the future, there's going to be a new world. And you will be like, there is a man who started a bookstore. And then he went to space. People like, wow, I should keep reading. Maybe then. took out the edges of that story. It could be quite nice.Jenny Tian  25:43  And why don't rub it in Jeff Bezos, like oh my goodness, those four minutes though when he was in space, I reckon was the best four minutes of the Amazon employees lives they were like finally a break.Sami Shah  25:56  simultaneously. I get to pay finally. What's the achievement he didn't go any higher in space than anyone's been before? He it wasn't a commercial flight that now we can all afford to do. It was a very rich man buying a rocket and going up in this space for four minutes. Every Russian billionaire Petro craft has probably done that at this point. We just don't know about it. Like what exactly was the achievement here?Jenny Tian  26:30  I mean, I think the achievement was that he got to have a massive press conference where he said fucking to all his employees.Dan Ilic  26:39  Paul Ford, who is the who was the founder of postflight studio in New York, he tweeted, I never thought I'd say this day the day when space was made uncool.Lewis Hobba  26:51  The other part of that press conference, I don't know if you watch the whole thing that you know how there is the like this the effect that they talk about when astronauts go up into space and they see the Earth from space. Yeah, down. And they're like, their mind is blown. And they understand that position in the world noSami Shah  27:07  borders andLewis Hobba  27:09  Rodas people. And clearly when he came down, he had been told by someone in like public relations to say that and I don't think he experienced that at all. But you get where he like Trump's out this line we'd like literally no feeling behind his eyes. He's like, I really learned about all you saw out there was more opportunity for slaves.Jenny Tian  27:38  He was just like looking over at Mars like alright, that's next. Let me conquer that now.Lewis Hobba  27:42  Yeah, ocean out there. I wonder if there's any employees, I can underpay in there?Sami Shah  27:48  Where is the challenger style explosion disaster when you need one. I mean, really, that's the only thing. A loose bolt here rocket can take that take out a teacher who got onto a rocket but for some reason Jeff Bezos gets the lucky rocket that doesn't explode mid flight. Yeah,Dan Ilic  28:06  I know. I agree with you, Louis. Like Dave, he did say that. And but if you look at the footage that I don't ever see, I kind of remember anyone looking out the window. Like, the footage was like of them getting out of their seats, throwing Skittles at each other them high fiving doing a selfie. And in four minutes, you don't have time to contemplate the universe and existentialism, but you don't you just don't have time to do that. And they spend like three minutes to like jumping around and hang hanging out with each other.Lewis Hobba  28:33  And also, as I like content creator, imagine the pressure of that, like you're going All right, we've got one take one take. And we have spent a lot on this. You are not a professional actor. We've given you three tasks, we need to get all of those for the content. So don't fuck this up. And it would be so possible to ask you on the way back, Johnny, like, Did we get it? Do we get it?Sami Shah  28:55  I'll do is I think you make a very good point. I had not thought about this, but I think the space trip for just baby by Jeff Bezos was faked. I found on a soundstage in Hollywood, using Stanley Kubrick when he was still alive. Only now seeing this footage, the entire thing was faked.Jenny Tian  29:19  Right That's why he looks so robotic when he's saying all of that it's actually just artificial intelligence. Right? That's it's been done like all that motion capture.Dan Ilic  29:28  Yeah, Jeff Bezos was replaced by Alexa.Sami Shah  29:35  Alexa has a lot more personality thanDan Ilic  29:39  a strange they were called they call themselves astronauts and not like prime plus members. I thought that would have been a better Well, that is it for the show today. Thank you so much to our fear mongers, Louis harbour, Jenny tiaan and semi shards if you guys got anything to plug, genuinely. Look, I've got nothing going on. I mean, Sammy What do you want to play?Sami Shah  30:04  Oh look if lockdown ends then August 7 I'm doing assure the company republic in Melbourne hmm appraisal of my here's what's gonna happen I know shows thatLewis Hobba  30:20  I haveSami Shah  30:22  what I have now is appearing on podcasts for free people like my face enough to give money to my Patreon go to patreon.com slash Sammy Shah and to $7 my way and you'll get a tonne of awesome free stuff and and I won't cry as much as I do most nights exactly JennyDan Ilic  30:39  Do you have a Patreon youJenny Tian  30:40  want to plug I don't have Patreon nor I die I'll donate to Sammy is or donate toDan Ilic  30:48  Jenny town has got an excellent Tick Tock what follow her Tick Tock it is sensational. It's really really good. Really funny.Jenny Tian  30:54  It's at nom nom Jenny, my Instagram is Jenny underscore tn and once lockdowns over I'll be back doing stand up again.Dan Ilic  31:01  Yeah, excellent. Louis. You got anything to plug?Lewis Hobba  31:04  Yeah, I'll tell you what, I do a radio show every day. It's a Triple J coldharbour. and hang at the moment. Obviously a lot of our listeners are usually people who drive home from work. I don't know if you've heard of that going on. It feels quiet out there. So don't forget if you're out there listening flick all the radio three Say hello. You'll be one of about four people listening.Sami Shah  31:27  Also Lewis will be doing circles have your neighbourhood in his wife van trying to pick up kids. Please feel sorry for him and put your child in the van.Lewis Hobba  31:38  Can I say Can I just say on that? First of all good idea. But there was in like radio gossip. There was this story going around about Kyle and Jackie. And like all obviously there they have a lot of ideas that get to it. And then there's the ideas that I have that don't get to imagine what those speak. So there is one apparently that is the case. They had this idea where they would set up with parents to lower children into a van using lollies. And if the kid got into the van, the parents did not win money. If the kid said no and didn't get into the van. They won like 20 grand Oh my god. I thinkSami Shah  32:28  I think they should replace q&a which is that that's what q&a should be is politicians and media commentators luring kids into bandsJenny Tian  32:38  like that. How do you know that may you've done your researchLewis Hobba  32:45  I need to know all of the TV ideas that are based on people who look like Sex Criminals so I know whatDan Ilic  32:52  I want to double up. big thank you to rode microphones and our new Patreon supporters Georgie cow and Irene Gary Gleason Daniel MC Carrie Rama Adams wha is a Patreon supporter, Laughlin Hatfield rose Allman we are off the we're off this sweet sweet money feed from the birth foundation. So please join us on patreon.com forward slash irrational fear chip in there until next week, there's always something to be scared of. Good night. A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🎟️ GET A TICKET TO OUR MELBOURNE SHOWS — AUGUST 14th👕 BUY OUR MERCH HERE G'day Fearmongers —Here is the live recording of this month's two regional shows in climate vulnerable cities — Newcastle and Bega!This is an edited super cut of both shows, if you'd like to see/hear the full unedited shows you can watch the video on our Patreon. Where you can support us for as little as the price of a coffee a month.June 5th — NewcastleKirsten Drysdale (Reputation Rehab)James Pender (Sammy J)Lewis Hobba (Triple J)Dan Ilic (Can Of Worms)Georgina Woods (Lock The Gate)+ DJ Dylabolical (The Chaser / Newsfighters Podcast)June 13th — BegaMick Neven (Melb. Comedy Festival)Gabbi Bolt (Tik Tok / The Chaser)Lewis Hobba (Triple J)Dan Ilic (Hungry Beast)Scott Ludlam (Former Senator)+DJ Dylabolical (The Chaser / Newsfighters Podcast)Our next live show is on June 24th in Sydney — it is SOLD OUT!So the next show after that is at Comedy Republic in Melbourne August 14th!🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🎟️ GET A TICKET TO OUR MELBOURNE SHOWS — AUGUST 14th👕 BUY OUR MERCH HERE Bertha Announcement  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by the birth of foundation.Dan Ilic  0:04  Today Daniel is here the host of irrational fear the podcast you're listening to right now. This is just to let you know that we you're about to hear a mishmash of two of the best live shows we've done this month, we went to Newcastle, and we went to bigger to do shows roughly about climate change in very climate vulnerable areas. And the first show you're gonna hear is our Newcastle show. And let's face it when you're doing a show about climate change in coal country, the audience may require some warming up. You decide.Unknown Speaker  0:32  A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks, Canberra COMM And section audio, or rational view recommends listening by immature audio. Tonight hittingUnknown Speaker  0:45  $1.1 million, the average price of a Newcastle home has hit parity with the average cocaine habit over Newcastle nice.Unknown Speaker  0:54  And Scott Morrison has gotten in trouble for saying our vaccine goal isn't a race, of course a leader of a country that's coming 100 and fifth in theUnknown Speaker  1:01  world would say that. And Newcastle is the seventh biggest city in Australia. And just like camera you have trained now.Dan Ilic  1:12  It's June 5, called Environment Day and live from New causes between nobodies head and the sun to the old genus tower.You're absolutely right, Louis, these people have never heard our show before. All right, welcome. This is the rational V, I'm your host, former gas turbine Daniel ej. And this is the podcast that kind of rips in the news and drills down on climate change. It's a bit like q&a, but people are actually watching, which is right. And tonight we're in Newcastle, which is terrific. On tonight's show. We'll look at lessons learned from the upper hunter byelection. We'll learn how we can carbon offset our partners that work in mining. And we'll ask just how many drinks Do you need to have to pass a bulk up? Let's meet our female guests for tonight. He's the number one comedy video editor as in he's the first and the oldest comedy video editor in Australia from the chaser to nightly and the news fighters podcast. It's still in vain. And he's a part time human rights lawyer and full time clown. He's one of the writers and performers of semi Jays playground politics. It's James panda. And she's recently was the star and executive producer of her own TV show and gave birth halfway through production. She is doing it all for the writings its reputation rehabs, ghosts and draws dial wasn't all true. And she's a self described hypocrite who is on the frontlines of climate action unlock the gate but lock it back up again real quick because it's locked the gates Gina woods and as soon as he started surfing this year, our final guests became the number one radio DJ in Newcastle. I assume you're from Nova Kasserine FMLewis Hobba  3:15  that's Yeah, no, thank you. I'm thrilled to be here in New Orleans. It's great. Yeah, we found out that the other bit of microphone talking I do the radio show is now the number one drive show in Newcastle. And it was a huge surprise to me, because I have very soft hands. And I just didn't expect to be taken into via violin over Catherine's but I'm fucking thrilled to be here. Yeah. All right. But first, a word from our sponsor.Unknown Speaker  3:38  We understand there's been some confusion about who is eligible for the COVID-19 vaccine and who votes labour. That's why the federal government is clearing up the confusion with job seeker. Job Seeker tells you when the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine will be made available to groups most in need of protection first, and Liberal Party donors. These vulnerable communities have been identified by medical experts and focus groups. group one includes people who are at increased risk of being silenced by kancil culture, like journalists who haven't asked any questions, cab drivers and divorce dads with an axe to grind on Facebook group to priority access will also be given to people working in critical services such as residents of marginal electorates, sharks fans, coal industry professionals, and men with law degrees who went to university with current or former Liberal Party cabinet members. If you're not listed in groups one or two, keep checking job seeker to see when other groups of people will be eligible for the AstraZeneca vaccine like women's scientists, union members, and Tom Ballard, who will definitely be last on the list job seeker helping those who are more on Team Australia than others get a COVID-19 vaccine first whenever they fucking Arrive authorised by someone anonymously to give us plausible deniability. ShouldUnknown Speaker  5:03  it all go to hell camera?Dan Ilic  5:05  All right.Sometimes I like to think we're winning the hearts and minds for climate justice in this country. Then I realised Oh, no, no, that's not that feeling. That's not the feeling of hope that's barely um, and the reason why we're here in this room in Newcastle is because it's important because ironically, when it comes to climate justice in Newcastle, you're at the coalface. Yeah. I was waiting for that one. Yep. Now we're gonna be talking a little bit more about the upper hunter election by by election a little later on. Now, the media was saying how labour was distraught to lose the upper hunter seat seat they haven't held in about 100 years. That's like saying, I'm distraught. I'm not an NBA player who can fly. Like labour, we're never going to win because labour forgot to stand for something. Now, the rest of the hunter, of course, is about to be turned into a fracking mess with more pipes coming out of it than Ben cousins. And much like, much like a liberal minister at a camera bar that guest live recovery is going to come upon us whether we want to or not. So I can't.Lewis Hobba  6:19  Honestly, it's quite shocking to me how few of you have heard this podcast. I really like yeah, it's not gonna get better. I really need you to prepare yourself for an hour thatDan Ilic  6:35  did say on the poster, an hour of jokes about the C word. Anyway,Kirsten Drysdale  6:40  I've got to say when I was coming in a lady walk past and she like, pushed her restaurant booking back because she said, I've just walked past the Playhouse and there's a nice play on. I think I'm gonna go and see it. Sorry, lady.Dan Ilic  6:54  Anyway, I think we're losing the battle when it comes to communicating about climate change. And I think we, I think because we're communicating badly. We're up against the carbon lobby when it comes to climate denialism. They have developed one of the most sophisticated weapons ever made boomers on Facebook that print names and put them in local shops. Now, this is the number one threat to climate change everywhere in this country. The environment doesn't stand a chance. On our side, we've had NASA the CSI arrived, David Attenborough and Avatar. And quite frankly, we can't compete with Microsoft Word Art. Look at that. These photos I'm showing you from a recent trip through country New South Wales, for the people on the podcast. This is a Henry Lawson poem about a bushfire and in curly Microsoft Word out above it says someone forgot to tell Henry Lawson in 1911. It was all caused by climate change. And you know what? They're absolutely right, because the first mention of climate change in an Australian newspaper wasn't until 1912 a whole 12 months after in the Sydney Evening News. Now Can anyone guess the number one font for climate deniers in New South Wales? Can anyone guess? Comic Sans Comic Sans very good. Excellent. Very good now Yeah, she's head of the group. Have a look at this one here. This one is a petition to stop a solar farm in both red and blue text, you know, trying to get some labour and liberal voters getting some bipartisanship here. Notice no green text on this one. I thought that was good. All right. Here's another one. This is from an A new farm a gift shop. It says that in 1939 there was a big bushfire that they called Black Friday, which is enough for this person to be convinced that the government was lying to us all about climate change because of bushfire happened once about 100 years ago. Now, the majority of it is in climate change. But as you can see here, they've mixed it up with some Tahoma and some full time use rotten Times New Roman as well, but they have reserved some Comic Sans for some particular words including ignorance and climate counts. Now the author did get a bit biblical towards the end ditching the Comic Sans and instead going for all caps. James is someone who's had some religion in the in their life. Could you please read out the the all caps as the author intended,James Pender  9:19  and yet today we are being told by our leaders that this is the new normal.Unknown Speaker  9:26  This time is right now we have been brainwashed into believing that the gospel of the new religion is cluttered.Georgina Woods  9:36  I have had the opposite experience though Dan of handing out flyers about climate change and saying to people, this is where the water is coming to the water is coming. The water is coming and feeling very much.Dan Ilic  9:46  It's a very biblical down there to build a boat. I love this man. In the bottom it says only this time it has a new and new and dangerous name and a global religion but behind it, the altar has been built, and our gullibility is about to be offered upon it. And then they've gone and undercut their entire argument by putting a Bible quote underneath. We says, none of the wicked shall understand, but the wives shall understand. And I don't understand why finally this The other thing you're gonna see around regional New South Wales here is Alan Jones articles. I call them articles but they actually are pids because you're not allowed to call them journalism because they don't have any facts. And so you're gonna see plenty of this around regional New South Wales. Also, here's another old favourite for people who can squint they put up Dorothea Mackellar has sunburned country as if they will, because there was a flood or a fire once and it was indicted. makellos palm. That's argument enough as to the climate change has always been around.Unknown Speaker  10:51  How come they don't do that thing we all used to do in primary school where you like put a tea bag over the paper and make it look lighter up to the edges.Dan Ilic  10:59  This one looks like the irony is I think this one's been up there. Like through 10 bushfires. It's, it's very faded. So what do we do about it? Well, friends, I've got a couple of things tonight to share with you. I've rewritten Dorothy makellos sunburnt country and and I've printed it out in Comic Sans. And I'm going to read it out to you now. And some of you will be able to take a copy of this home. I love a sunburn country. Not one of constantly ablaze with weather anomalies increasing to our scientists amaze. I love a sunburn country. Oh shit. It's on fire again. We put it out last answer send back the water cry. I love a sunburn country with once in 100 year floods now occurring monthly, we're neck deep in that they're getting bigger and more often these climate change events Sky News can go fuck itself. They're larger and more frequent. Are we corrupt? Like she fuckery County limp leaders need to accelerate just transition rather than holding on to power to boost their superannuation attenuation. So go out and tell your friends that life as we know it is fact unless we ditch our fossil fuels this lucky country's adult.Unknown Speaker  12:14  And there is one more thing I've made for you. And that is, this is like you've moved the end of Oprah to the start.Dan Ilic  12:22  Well, Yo, I gotta get my shit out of the way. I've made a fake op ed, here it is. Look at this. This is a fake Alan Jones op ed. He's basically repenting.Alan Jones  12:34  I'm about to do something that I've only ever done once before. I'm about to admit that I'm wrong. The only other time I've done this is when I declared the chest was the best musical to come out of the brain of Tim Rice. And we all know that's wrong. It's jesus christ superstar incontrovertibly so. The I was wrong about chess as either they have this. Here we go. For a very long time. I used to think that climate change wasn't real. I used to think that like an ethnically 2021 Christmas album, it just wasn't happening. I used to think that the fossil fuel companies and funded my show were on struggle straight and doing it tough. And those on the land were begging for handouts, and so called compensation because their farm is now open pit mine were a bunch of winners who took two sucking off the teat of the working man if I can use that expression. But much like the 2001 Wallabies back end as evolved. And I know this is not to be true. It's wrong. If I could put all of my previous climate change denialism in a chat bag and throw that to say I would, but that's wrong, too. And we get stuck around a dolphin's neck and they die for watch, trying to unravel a bag of bad opinions to shape discourse and policy in an attire for an entire country. One metaphorDan Ilic  13:44  the revelation came to me when an parlane bow valine chose to go to new direction for marketing and no longer sponsor my TV show. It was in renewable energy giant national solar energy group stepped in with the help of their money, it became clearer than ever that humans were causing climate change. It's clear that we need to stop all additions of alien life and electrify everything with national solar energy grids renewable energy, it's clear we need to draw down emissions as fast as we can. It's also clear that this government needs to prevent me from being such a powerful position to influence policymakers in this country. Instead of paying billions for fossil fuel subsidies that are killing the planet. The Defence department should build a time machine that will allow a cold blooded assassin like that will build been Robert Smith on lightning huge to go back in time and strangle me to death with a big strong athletic hands before I endorse Tony Abbott as prime minister. If we can do that, then we just bought save the planet. And if we can't do that, take an insurance italiaanse in order to protect your home and contents insurance. For the worst his mother died she can throw your wife Allianz peace of mind when Mother Nature is on a period. Mother Nature The only other woman worse than Julia Gilad on Ellen JonesThanks very much everyone, and you can take a copy of that home with you. If there's any left outside as you leave, but if you register on the website, you'll get a free one as well in next week's email. All right, alright. Ladies and gentlemen dealing rational fear. Fear is rational. Alright.Dylan Behan  15:33  Alright, DJ diabolical se with some wacky clips. Let's get the show on the road. It's great to be here in Newcastle. Now I don't know if any of you heard but there was a thing called a byelection on here recently. Has anyone anyone heard about this? Anyone know about this? Anyone? like hearing about the by election? But actually, I didn't think it was a by election because according to john barilaro, it was actually a horse race when we weren't just in the race. We've led over why like a good bloody racehorse.Unknown Speaker  16:04  Now's not the time to change, change the jockey mid rise. You can't just replace the jockey The horse is broken.Unknown Speaker  16:11  What the hell does that mean? What the hell jumbo? is john barrel IRA just wishing he was at the rice track, instead of on the campaign trail? Or is his brain only capable of holding like a single metaphor and he literally compares everything to a horse race? Like what does he do when he goes to his kids swimming Carnival? Well, Billy may the best horse win. But Dad, I mean, you're human son, not to me. You are. Yes, but if you haven't heard nationals candidate, David lizelle was out on the on the upper Hunter was right. And being the electorate talked on my research. I read that it's the electorate with the highest proportion employed in mining in all of New South Wales, which meant that john barilaro steady state nationals leader made sure to remind us during the campaign, just how much he and his party support call.Unknown Speaker  17:10  The results minister I've actually had more mines approved in the two years since taking on the portfolio. Our track record is supporting coal, a berejiklian barrel era government and liberal National Coalition I'll use the word calling that one thing to say behindUnknown Speaker  17:31  powering your economy. Yes, that is literally a glue a grown man yelling at a coal train like is a four year old total opportunity he just saw Thomas the Tank Engine.Unknown Speaker  17:47  black suit makes me cough ups not that yes, the Nationals love coal. This is the message they wanted us all to take away the Nationals love cold. I love cold so much that being a video editor I put together a little montage of how much the Nationals love and support coal and coal miners into the future let's let's see how much they love.Unknown Speaker  18:11  New South Wales deputy premier john barilaro has called for national referendum or plebiscite on nuclear energy john barrel Laura has long championed the benefits of nuclear power, mining and nuclear energy is should be part of Australia's economic future that low energy futureUnknown Speaker  18:27  The only political part of the sickens head up on this issue is the National Party. National senators earlier this year in Canberra drafted legislation allowing the Clean Energy Finance Corporation to invest in nuclear power. And the man who chairs today's nuclear parliamentarian roundtable was the Nationals MP Barnaby Joyce, if you seriouslyUnknown Speaker  18:48  want zero emissions, if that's what knocks you out. If that's what blows your hair back. Well, then nuclear path is where you're gonna have to go and we should start looking at nuclear. Do you think within 20 years they'll be modular nuclear reactors in Australia? I think it's a very good chance thatUnknown Speaker  19:02  it is a cheap, reliable source of energy national parties 100% behind this and we hope our coalition partners will follow us.Unknown Speaker  19:10  Yeah, that coal miners the National Party is 100% behind nuclear. Bobby a good time to go down to the TAFE and learn how to mine uranium if you can find a type that hasn't been sold off at a loss. Yes, that's our deputy federal nationals later Bridget McKenzie there at the end saying how much she loves nuclear. And one of the reasons she said she loves to clutter is it's so much so much better than all those pesky windmills, have a look.Unknown Speaker  19:35  If you put some nuclear power into this mix, we'd be losing a tiny percentage of the landmass that's currently on the wind farms. And we'd be able to use that for farming and a whole lot of other industries as well.Unknown Speaker  19:48  You hear that the deputy leader of the roll party the Nationals, I don't think she's ever seen a shape paddock full of wind turbines before in her entire life. Also, Bridget I don't think you'll I think you'll find sheep crazy is wanting to put nuclear actors out in a backpack or on a rooftop. And also, Matt Canavan, who is in that story is in the montage before he reckons nuclear is really safe to those dangerous renewables.Unknown Speaker  20:13  Overall, nuclear has been an incredibly safe technology. People die installing solar panels on roofs. The greatest energy accidents in the world have always involved petrochemicals which are inherently volatile, and we're talking about getting hydrogen root which is a very flammable and dangerous chemical.Unknown Speaker  20:31  Yeah, last I checked, there's no HBO miniseries about people installing solar panels on roofs. And speaking of hydrogen, which he mentioned there at the end, hydrogen has also been in the news a lot lately, Scott Morrison has made it his new favourite technological buzzword for when he gets cornered by the rest of the world into talking about how we're going to have to get to net zero as you know, eventually, eventually, eventually don't I won't say windows please, please stop asking. In fact, Stormer loves hydrogen so much. He was he was name dropping out repeatedly back in April, in the days around joe biden's virtual climate day summit Have a look. Our ambition is to produce the cheapest green hydrogen in the world,Unknown Speaker  21:14  that one of the most important targets that Australia has, is to be able to produce hydrogen at $2 a kilo. Mr. President in the United States, you have the Silicon Valley. Here in Australia, we are creating our own hydrogen ballots. And when it comes to the hydrogen valleys we can be developing all across the country.Unknown Speaker  21:36  Yes, hydrogen Valley's also the name of the worst timing polar album. So it's comparison is having a bromance with hydrogen. Why? Well, you'll be surprised to learn that it's because our government is arguing that hydrogen made using coal and gas can still be cold clay in hydrogen, aka blue hydrogen, because you know, we'll just use carbon capture to turn it clean, I guess. It's totally a real thing. Carbon Capture works. Change the subject, speaking, speaking in which he is his Angus Taylor, on trying to argue blue hydrogen is clean hydrogen to a friend Kelly on ahran breakfast in April and Well, it sounds like he was going a bit blue in theUnknown Speaker  22:17  face. And you've announced this week. $540 million for new hydrogen hubs and carbon capture and storage at the hydrogen hubs. A lot of people have been asking hear me here on this programme is a green hydrogen or hydrogen made with fossil fuels?Unknown Speaker  22:31  It's clean hydrogen, what's that? That's the point. It's clean hydrogen.Unknown Speaker  22:35  So it's not made by the fossil fuel industry. So I'm not declaring why I'm asking it wasn't made with fossil fuels are made with renewable energy.Unknown Speaker  22:42  The point that may make when they're asking that question is we can't possibly make anything from fossil fuels. Well, you know what, if it's zero emissions, it's fine. That's the point. It's got to be clean. fuels and how do we make it zero emissions? It will be made with anything that allows us to reduce emissions is blue. Hydrogen that can be done with zero emissions is green hydrogen, it can be done with zero emissions. You know, we made a lot of horses in this race.Unknown Speaker  23:10  Horses again, get some new metaphors. Oh my God. That interview was such a cluster shambles. Angus Taylor went on Facebook and commented bad job Angus. Of course, one of the reasons in fact, probably the real reason that Scott Morrison loves hydrogen so much is well it can keep his millionaire mining mate magnate mates rich and we can keep digging up coal for another 50 years. But also it can make trucks got burned.Unknown Speaker  23:38  I mean, hydrogen can be used to drive vehicles. I mean, up there in the Pilbara at the moment. They're putting him in the mining trucks. Yeah, let'sUnknown Speaker  23:45  put let's put hydrogen flammable hydrogen in vehicles because it works. So well. Last time, Dan, play the clip. go well. In conclusion, if you're saying well, who cares? We're doing the best we can we can't do any more than to get to zero emissions and help stop climate change in this country. But let's just let's just let's just look over the ditch to New Zealand and see what just didn't return promised at the Earth Day summit backUnknown Speaker  24:16  in April. No fossil fuel subsidies part of New Zealand's four action points one price carbon to make climate related financial disclosures, mandatory three in fossil fuel subsidies and for finance adaptation.Dan Ilic  24:36  And that's how you win a bloody horse race. Yeah. rational. Your fear is rational. It's kind of a theme throughout irrational fear and the greatest moral podcast of our generation where you have all this technical technobabble and it comes down to something so simple, how good is to send data so good, man? Well, yeah.Lewis Hobba  24:58  I want some New Zealand has all those people falling off their solar panelled roofs. Well who'll be laughing then actually eating her words? Yeah.Dan Ilic  25:07  Now, George, you out Newcastle local here. What was the most interesting thing to come out of the upper hunter byelection for you?Unknown Speaker  25:19  Well, I have a slightly different take from Dylan I suppose because there was a lot of you know, headlining about coal. But in actual fact, what the National Party did during that election campaign was cancelled. The coal mine that was proposed and proved on the Liverpool Plains promised they'd never be any open cut coal mining at dark rock near Aberdeen, promised to set up an expert panel that would manage the structural adjustment of the region. You know, in the event of coals, coal exports declined and invite unions and community advocates to take part in deciding how that rolls out. And we won the by election, and then the Labour Party subsequently just tear itself completely to pieces because they didn't think that they were protocol enough during the election campaign.Dan Ilic  26:00  Wow. Did people have the upper hand to think that we're voting for the greens?Unknown Speaker  26:05  Well, I think it's fair to say that if the Labour Party had done the series of things that the National Party did, you know, to curtail the mining industry and plan for structural adjustment. The reaction I think in this sort of tabloid press probably would have been slightly different that they they get a different sort of treatment on it.Lewis Hobba  26:21  So were you a member of lock the gate who would vote nationalUnknown Speaker  26:26  there are many people in the lock the gate movement who vote nationally in fact, I've spoken to farmers who have you know, locked on against a resource extraction projects who also hand out how to vote cards for the National Party and find it harder find it harder to you know, to change that than they do to go and get arrested fighting mining projects.Lewis Hobba  26:47  Yeah, right. Right. I mean, I guess based on that election Yeah, they're absolutely spot on in situ on the stock mining boat national. That makes complete sense.Dan Ilic  26:57  Ladies and gentlemen, James panda. Hello. DianeUnknown Speaker  27:04  says as Dylan just said, the National hunter byelection and as john Boyle our I said the nationals are back baby, and he's rider guests. But when you've been in power in the upper hand for the last 90 years, it's fair to say you're not only back if you've never gone away, have you to be clean labour last were empowering the upper hunter in 1931. And in 1931, the Labour Party still referred to itself as a Communist Party. Hitler was an unknown artist from Austria. Andrew Boldt hadn't been invented yet so while the loss for labour in the recent byelection as we've already said was a bit unexpected. I've got some ideas to help out labour in the hunter. So I'm going to go through 10 things that can help labour when in the hunter number one way more vests. Nothing says vote for me for 90 consecutive he is like a smart vest. I reckon. JOHN barrel already knows it and that fighter, so I just tie flies. Look at them. This is one PC getting shit done in your electorate. Where is this open neck shirt so you can buy from labour candidate Jeff Drayton says I'm busy appearing before I care. The electorate says no. Number two more jobs brothers are rockin nothing screams success like the John's brothers together they oversaw the most successful era in rugby league Andruw Jones famous for taking so many pictures that became a rugby league and multiple was Matthew Jones is famous for his rich Reagan character who continually called for the game to bring back the beef. I think now labour needs to harness their talents. Imagine Joey Jones on the dealings handing out how to vote cards. going door to door imagine rage Reagan advocating for return to call labour values. Like labour legend Ben chifley in his evocatively titled stump speech, bring back the chief. Perhaps short or long bow there but let's just say John's brothers and labour ladies and gentlemen unstoppable. Number three branch sacking labour needs to get serious about the brand stalking. They can't just keep hoping people will vote for them. They need to start breeding labour voters. Luckily, one thing we do know is that jobs fact the way through Newcastle in the 1990s, which means there's a whole lot of elite illegitimate children out there and given most of the routes probably happened post a 97 Premiership those kids are at voting age. So let's sign them up for Labour baby. Idea number four build a beat something every week Cody in Australia has a big something What does the hunter have other than big unemployment and a big problem with institutional child abuse? to sin if library to when they need to promise to build something big, not that. No, not a gas fired power station. We're in Newcastle. What about a big nuke? Just point the nuclear bomb mccampbell and Mikey demands or using to get rid of Gosford idea number five, get rid of Gosford let's be honest go city's a shithole odroid for anyone to get rid of gossip. I don't care how All I know is do we really need Gosford? The Central Coast Mariners and the bluetongue beanfactory are not reasons to keep a town are the number six sign over kastri and more labour candidates need to be seen saying the word Nova kastri and I don't know how the fuck that means Newcastle person, but it's a cool word. Number seven embrace the ban on a serious note ladies and gentlemen labour needs to embrace the ban on everyone's lips. Okay, and now I don't mean the ban on coal fired power station. I mean the ban on any further albums that involve Daniel Jones and Luke Steele in their co lab drains drains more like nightmares. Am I right? I am right okay.Unknown Speaker  31:00  Adi number nine is a little bit easy. I'm running out of ideas at this point. If Should we get a minister for Semyon if Joe Fitzgibbons can lead the Labour Party to a new generation of glory? We need some less divisive portfolio making them in a surface me on swap the call for a cask of wine, then at least the inner city sir Chardonnay drinkers might actually listen to what he has to say. ID number 10. Ladies and gentlemen, keep doing the same thing later persist with a pro renewable pro climate change platform while failing to sell the benefits of a renewable economy to the workers in the fossil fuel sector. Sure, this strategy is probably not going to work. But the genius of this plan is if they commit to losing long enough sea levels will rise and wipe out the entire hunter region. So that labour can start with the remaining voting population that will probably believe in climate change because they will have seen it wipe out their whole family. And if we're lucky, there'll be some survivors from the descendants of Jeremy jobs and they'll lead the Knights to a Premiership again. Newcastle wins the hunter wins and most importantly, labour winds stickierDan Ilic  32:14  than other Katherine's on our panel, do any of those inspire you to vote labour Minister for simians great idea? Absolutely. put myself forward.Lewis Hobba  32:25  Yeah, as a as a visitor. What's wrong with Gosford? Yeah, whatDan Ilic  32:30  is wrong with gospel? Really? You've never been?Unknown Speaker  32:35  He has been to coffee if you drive through Gosford that'sUnknown Speaker  32:39  it there's a central coast Newcastle thing it's it's you know it's it's a little cousin.Lewis Hobba  32:45  Yeah, I fucking hate him. I'm desperate for calls. I'll say anything.Dan Ilic  32:55  Now Melvin's recent COVID outbreak has meant that a whole bunch of music festivals have been cancelled, including the replacement for the group in the move, fresh produce, which is real shame because music festivals are where some of our biggest and brightest ideas come to light at these festivals. A few years ago, we did a show at splendour in the grass and we asked some punters there just how they would solve the rift between Israel and Palestine. In the results, were pretty interesting. So I'm asking people for solutions to big problems. How do we fix Israel and PalestineUnknown Speaker  33:28  with ketamine? Lots of ketamine. As a matter of fact, I had this discussion. I'm not even fucking joking.Unknown Speaker  33:36  On the motherfucking, with the whole world peace to get the United Nations in a room, a lot of the finest ecstasy in the world will be so all the leftover food that isn't even explained to those peopleUnknown Speaker  33:52  just get on MDMA and forget to live a democracy. Or what if I told you that Israel had a terrific democratic government?Unknown Speaker  33:59  Well, we all know that's not true because the Ibis group in Washington, what do they call the Ibis group?Dan Ilic  34:07  What's your message to Benjamin Netanyahu? I don't know who he is my friend. What's your message of Benjamin Netanyahu? I'll say get brown chicken. Either one way, I'm sorry. But one of them has to be asking people to solve big problems. So I got a question for you. I've got a really big problem. What is it? Red Bull hurts my heart. told me the softball and a brother of how to be broken but there was also some sort of soul drawn on my lips. Now. How do we fix this? He said that they go for several months. Sorry, he wants Israel and Palestine. The two countries they should have splendid. Rufus just pumping 50k system on the fucking gaza strip out It'd be peace lamanites What's your message to Benjamin Netanyahu? Who's to state they use a two state solution for Israel and Palestine and the five state solution. Benjamin, Prime Minister of Israel, you need to dance under the grace and rule 10 and we will just we will look off the old days when is fully the wrong place us?Lewis Hobba  35:39  Why do you think that is? pretty fucked?Dan Ilic  35:51  I knew we should have opened with Israel gear on Twitter. I'm gonna put that on Twitter, because I'll get cancelled. That's why Yeah, it was on national broadcast that was on SBS at some point and we get so you know, it's on SBS. So no one watch no one you get mobile watching it on Twitter this everyone Kirsten dries down.Unknown Speaker  36:25  Hey, guys, so look, I just want to start by checking in with everyone you know, how's your climate anxiety guys? pretty bad. Yeah. Yeah, it sucks. I get it. But try being may try being married to a coal miner. Well, technically, he's a diesel mechanic. But when I'm not letting my cognitive dissonance get the better of me. I call it what it is. He's a diesel mechanic who works on a coal mine, fixing the machines that dig up the call or maintaining the washing plant that sorts the coal or repairing the pump that stops the tailings dam from spilling over and polluting the surrounding waterways with toxic effluent that's a byproduct of digging up coal. My husband's the latest in a long line of miners that stretches back in his family a dozen generations all the way to Cornwall, which is where coal was invented by Captain Cook. That sounds like a lie. And it partly is. But this here is literally a book tracking my husband's quote, ancient mining family name and heritage as far back as the 1500s. It's a great grade. Although if I had known before we got married just how many murders were in the bloodline. I may have reconsidered this union. Anyway, until not so long ago, this was a perfectly honourable way to make a living, fucking kancil culture. The thing is, we're not idiots. We care about the future. We've got two kids who we love very much. Actually, if I'm being totally honest, we've got one kid we like. The other ones a bit like, take it away. My point is, my husband's job causes our family an increasingly intolerable amount of moral anxiety and makes my efforts to live a carbon neutral lifestyle really quite challenging. Put it this way. A return flight from Sydney to Melbourne puts out about 0.2 metric tonnes of carbon. My husband brings about that much carbon home and coal dust each week. Our sheets look like we've had a threesome with a chimney sweep. When you want to carbon offset a flight you literally just tick a box and pay like $2 for me to carbon offset my husband, I'd have to plant a rainforest, build a wind farm and braid predator and birds here every single day for the rest of my life. Like I sign up to 100% green energy, I ride my bike, I marching rallies, I do Earth Hour, but then my husband goes to work and repairs the overheating torque converter on a D 11. Caterpillar bulldozer and I'm back to square one. What can I do? I love the guy. He's understandably hesitant about quitting his job when we've got a mortgage and two small children to look after. And I'm understandably hesitant about encouraging him to when I'm about to go back to uni because working in the media has hardly made me a reliable breadwinner. Most of my work these days is doing most of my work these days is doing unpaid guest spots on my friend's port. You're getting paidLewis Hobba  39:22  for this. The applause some of them haven't heard of.Dan Ilic  39:30  I mean, up until yesterday, I thought there's only going to be 40 of you were born. I'm so relieved. Now you're definitely getting paid a profit.Unknown Speaker  39:37  Look, as soon as something comes up that he can jump to he will. In the meantime, I just have to do whatever I can to offset the damage. I've had some success. When we first started dating my husband drove a VA Commodore ute. I was like, dude, I work at the ABC. You can't drop me off in that thing. They'll think it's a terrorist attack. So we traded it in for Much less thirsty VW Golf. Sure it was emasculating to go from driving a high octane petrol Australian musclecar to a diesel German hatchback, but it was worth it knowing the pollution wasn't anywhere near as bad.Unknown Speaker  40:17  Then the Volkswagen emissions cheating scandal broke. And we realised he'd cocked himself for nothing. Well, not for nothing by cover story that I was dating a dental technician from the Central Coast held up a lot longer than it would have otherwise. And look, I've had other ideas. You know, I thought we could set up a GoFundMe page to support him while he re skills. But then I realised it's only socially acceptable to ask your friends for money to fund your overseas holidays, and not to help you leave an industry that's destroying the planet. Okay, then I thought, okay, like pivot pivot. What about sex work? Like for him? Not me. Know, there must be people out there who are into sort smeared. 42 year old men operating heavy machinery, you know, like, no king gets shamed these days. But then his only fans account got shut down because it just looked like he was doing horny blackface. And then I thought, and look, I know this might sound a bit crazy, but just stick with me for a moment. What if the government took some of the money from the massive profits mining companies of my digging up the nation's natural resources, and used it to help retrain the workers in those industries so that ordinary people stuck in these jobs could move on to something new, ideally, something that didn't require them to have chest x rays every two years to screen for black lung, which is not just a joke in Zoo lambda. It's a real thing. But then I remembered we are currently ruled by mouth breathing troglodytes, who would rather return to harvesting whale blubber than admit that maybe just maybe in the year 2021, one of the wealthiest and most highly educated countries in the world could find something a little bit smarter to do than digging up rocks, especially when the mining companies are going to cut and run the moment called becomes economically unviable. Which should be any second now. So anyway, having run out of options, I'm left with no choice, Chris, honey, I love you. But the only way I can truly offset you is to offset you probably shouldn't have ended. But that was theLewis Hobba  42:39  that was the saddest ending to a comedy bit.Dan Ilic  42:41  I want you to know 23 cents of each ticket is going to go to carbon offsetting. Chris tonight, so thank you for that. Do you have general club? I know that's a facetious pace for this show. But is there a Is there a serious anxiety about about this?Unknown Speaker  42:58  Yeah, absolutely. Like it like everybody gets that kind of moment. Probably every day where you go. Who's gonna end and like for us? It's very, very, very close to home. Yeah, yeah.Lewis Hobba  43:09  I mean, I remember when you started dating your now husband, and you and I were working together in Maharashtra, the IBC. And I remember when you told you like, I was a coal miner. We were all like, oil. Well, well, you were you were a heroin junkie. Yeah, it was fun. Everyone was like, get him to her to a needle room. I'm like, absolutely. Yeah.Dan Ilic  43:36  I mean, I've also been to your house and you've got a lot of nice stuff. So there's like, why am I doing working at ABC?Unknown Speaker  43:44  It's also like yeah, they call it the golden handcuffs because it's you know, it's not like it's a poorly paid job and it but it is hard to jump away from something when you don't have something to jump to like, you know, we're having to take a pay cut, but there's got to be something to go to.Dan Ilic  43:59  Is that what you think about working with ABC? Do you have golden handcuffs areLewis Hobba  44:03  those plastic handcuffs from a toy shop? They're very cheap. And they're they're actually quite easy to break, zip ties and you all love where you're also like, No, do me. All right, Lee.Dan Ilic  44:17  I won't yuck. Your next guest has been trying to get people to move to a just transition to a Fossil Free future for the last 15 years. So it's safe to say she's a little tired. So please welcome Gina woods.Gina, thank you so much for risking it and coming in sit on a panel of comedians and smart asses to talk about climate justice. It's really wonderful. First of all, you you describe yourself as a hypocrite and a failure. But isn't it in your interest that no one moves from fossil fuels so you can keep your jobUnknown Speaker  44:58  It's very true. I have I do think about that. And I, it's, it's a hit, I'm willing to take, it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make go on to the doll queue become unemployed. If we could actually do this,Dan Ilic  45:11  what do you call yourself a hypocrite and a failure? Like, why is that hard to identify every day getting up and look yourself in the mirror?Unknown Speaker  45:19  Well, I guess it's kind of hard, but failure because I have have literally been in, you know, strategy meetings, and you know, this sort of talking to other environmentalists and kind of going, like I've been working on, you know, calling the hunter and climate change for 20 years. Like, that's still a really, really big problem, you know, it hasn't really gotten that far in all that time. So that's, that's why failure and hypocrite is really something that the that kind of ends, you know, of the world like to talk around and environmentalists because we use computers and we, you know, might drive cars and because we are all, you know, entangled in this, it's, it's, you know, we're not on the other side, we're not not part of this society. Kirsten knows it really well, like, and I think this these are so brilliant, really to illustrate that. It's not like an s&m thing, coal miners aren't aliens. People use stuff that uses fossil fuels. And I am one of them. Yeah.Dan Ilic  46:15  Are you going out with a coal miner as well? No, but you know, I'm not ruling it out. Well, tonight, we have a lonely coal miner in the audio come on down. activist once a husband, it's a new TV show. Coming to SBS to you can have full custody of the Doug kit that you guys didn't have that. I'm just an activist standing in front of a coal miner. When we spoke earlier this week, you said I get it. You want me to explain the weirdness in the hunter. When you say that, like what is the weirdness in the hunter?Unknown Speaker  46:53  Well, I mean, I suppose the weirdness really is this sort of exaggerated idea that people have about what it's all about. And it's sort of people from the outside the raging? Go, it's a moonscape, you know, which is kind of puts the nose out of joint to the vignerons and you know, people who kind of, you know, a farmers and tourist industry, because actually, it's very, very beautiful place. It's not a moonscape at all, and it's muchLewis Hobba  47:14  better the Gosford stay down, Gosford,Unknown Speaker  47:19  and you know, there's others who say the mining industry is not important at all, you know, it only employs 2% of people around the country. But in actual fact, that's a really, really large amount of people here who rely on it for their livelihoods. And that's, that's real. And so that's the weirdness is just sort of competing kind of sweeping statements about what it's all about,Dan Ilic  47:37  do you have faith that there's going to be what we all hope for, which is a just transition and a fast transition in the next few years.Unknown Speaker  47:47  I wouldn't describe it as faith. I mean, I'm very excited by some of the stuff going on now part of the 100 jobs Alliance, which is a sort of collaboration of environmentalists and unions to try and just sort of break this taboo of talking about what the region is going to do once the coal export industry declines. And that has really changed things a lot. So I'm excited, rather than kind of hopeful or faithful, IUnknown Speaker  48:09  suppose.Dan Ilic  48:10  When you're going by toe to toe on your, on your battles on the ground? How do you kind of keep an eye on the big picture? Like you're in this podcast, rational fear, we talk to a lot of climate leaders who are all focused on the macro, but you're very much someone who is now in the trenches in the pits for one for a better word, like, how do you kind of keep that eye that vision of the of the major goal whilst you're whilst you're going toe to toe with people here?Unknown Speaker  48:39  I mean, that's pretty tricky. I guess. Like don't, because the big picture is really awful. And you can't really, you know, this is a comedy show. So apologies for bring down the tone. ButLewis Hobba  48:51  Kirsten already talked about a divorce. So we're at rock bottom.Unknown Speaker  48:56  Yeah, I mean, you just have to do what's in front of you. And, you know, I actually try not to read stuff about climate change much anymore, or watch the films and all that stuff. I don't, I don't engage. I just,Dan Ilic  49:05  I just do what's in front of me. There's something to be said for the language that's wrapped around climate change, like, a lot of it is of the station and full of jargon. And but is the reality? Is there a simpler reality behind all of these huge words? Like we've got so many layers of bureaucracy, all talking about climate change, but we're talking about it in this crazy language that you never heard of before?Unknown Speaker  49:34  Yeah, I mean, there is the reality. And I think one of the things that really fucks us up on this is that we've got this sort of really quite primary straightforward problems of rivers drying up and, you know, huge storms and big holes in the ground with no plans to fill them and you know, a huge workforce, very well paid jobs, not quite sure where they're gonna go in 20 years time, but it's all kind of obfuscated and clouded into this sort of language. have, you know the voluntary land mitigation access policy and approved methods for assessing air pollution and an American submission on this new period of public hearing? Yeah, so it's like, my job is like explaining the government to people and trying to sort of bridge that gap to say, well, when they say, you know, strategic release framework, what they mean is, they're going to be putting out new areas for coal exploration, you know, out west,Dan Ilic  50:23  I like it was James said, He's switching off because he negotiated the TPP and has worked in The Hague. Like, now, I've got PTSD. So and how do you cut through that bureaucratic jargon to kind of make a simpler case like there's a simpler, there's a simpler world out there that many of us want to understand want to be part of. So how do you make that case?Unknown Speaker  50:47  Yeah, I mean, I think you always have to bring and this is what I'm saying about the big picture, you have to bring it back to things that people understand and they see right in front of them. And that's why, you know, what matters to people in the hunter is the the pollution in the air and the effect that the industry has on the river and the dislocation of rural villages. And that's really immediately what people are seeing. And that's and that's where their hearts lie.Unknown Speaker  51:09  in researching for this gig actually saw that the sea wall fell over in Newcastle. Is that to do with mining, or is itDan Ilic  51:18  the same old same? Oh, the Stockton Yeah, dude. Yeah, it's really well, there was a coal mine right on the beach at Stockton. unrelated to the, to the erosion that's happening.Lewis Hobba  51:31  Wow. Breaking News, irrational fear Saturday night.Dan Ilic  51:36  George fuses? Do you have a sense of hope to keep you going? Like, what what drives you to keep working in this space?Unknown Speaker  51:45  Uh, well, I mean, I, there's a lot of people who live with the impacts of mining who I have worked with, you know, for all the time I've been would love the gate, which is eight years or so. And they, you know, they have no choice. They kind of stuck there. And I owe it to them to continue being being there for them, essentially. And, you know, it's, it's, it's really, it's wonderful work. It doesn't. It's very, very rewarding.Lewis Hobba  52:10  That's all I could say, tragically, you probably have a longer career than coal miners. Oh, God. Yeah. Sorry, Kirsten. Sorry. Yeah, that's good. It's actually good news. And we just want to be forced to become unemployed. You know, we don't want to volunteer and come unemployed together. And we'll just solve the whole problem by everybodyUnknown Speaker  52:30  becoming unemployed, universal, basic income. Now, I actually wanted to ask George, because I have done a few events with George in Newcastle, and I find you don't want to embarrass you, but I find it incredibly inspiring, but also incredibly intimidating and terrifying. And I would never, ever fuck with you. And like, bit like you would have been involved in some really like heated confrontations at some of the like actions that you've been had? And are you ever scared when people are really in your face? Or do you just like really get off on that?Unknown Speaker  53:04  At protest actions, I don't tend to get scared. No, I kind of get scared before. And then after. And then when you're there. It's just it just all flows like you're just in the moment? And have you ever been in a situation where you've actually felt like you're actually physically in danger? like someone's going to hit you or anything like that? No, I'm now have, I have been in situations where that's happening to somebody very close by. And actually, that was a forest protest. And a very dear friend of mine put his body in the way of the axe that was chopping down the tripod that my friend was sitting at the top of, which was, you know, see what i'm saying, man? It wasn't me. I was just a witness. But um, yeah, I mean, it is, I guess, it's protesting is a way to bring to the surface a lot of these contradictions and challenges and so it doesn't really provide any answers. It's just about questioning. It's just about bringing things right up close with people and going well, is this actually a good idea?Unknown Speaker  54:00  And what about when you're in the room with people, you know, politicians or people from mining companies, you know, really high powered high profile people? Do you ever find yourself intimidated? Do you intimidate them?Unknown Speaker  54:13  I don't know. I might. What am I good. If you want to hear this story, one of my best stories from last year, which was a difficult year for many people was having a stand up argument with Stephen galley, the head of the minerals Council in New South Wales in New South Wales parliament. And it was because he sort of walked casually past man sort of said hello, Georgina, and I just sort of, you know, I don't want to talk to you Is that a thing and and he had to go at me for not being nice to him and and I just lost it. I was gonna say this on tape. This is just for all of you. I was just sort of like, Is this just a job for you like this isn't just a job for me. I'm not just going to clock in and clock off and say, get a Steve you know, great to see you. This is actually life, you know, life affecting stuff for people that I work with, and I can't just put it all aside and, and pretend like I'm just a professional, so not a politician.Dan Ilic  55:12  Well, George, if you ever get stuck, you could probably always just become Chair of Newcastle University. Chancellor, Chancellor. I'm hoping that posts will reopen again quite soon. Everyone Georgina woods.Lewis Hobba  55:41  Try standing up is this it's something that I was just saying to Dan, when we got in here. I've never done comedy up before.Dan Ilic  55:48  really unusual. It's an unusual situation. James James also said that and I maintain it's because you're the two tallest peopleLewis Hobba  55:55  look up at anyone. I feel like a small town lawyer out of there. It's always fun to try to pivot out of climate action back into comedy. So stick with me. I want to talk not about the climate, but about the vaccines. Another big topic. All right. Yeah. One more applause Hello. All right. All right. I don't know if you've heard but the COVID vaccine rollout is going very badly. Right now Scott Morrison couldn't organise a syringe on the set of Trainspotting. By the end of March, he planned to have 4 million people vaccinated and they just missed that target by 3.4 million. This week, the government revealed that hadn't vaccinated aged care workers and they didn't even know how many aged care residents had started getting shots as anyone who had been vaccinated just by asking that question, I know more than the government about vaccine rollout. But in times of crisis, I think it's very important to take the government's lead and instead of looking at what we can do, start looking at who we can blame. Let's start with the labour leaders. We all know Dan Andrews is crawling out of his hospital bed at night, throwing away his fake back brace and creeping out to sprinkle COVID under the beds of Melbourne's children. The media are obviously also to blame. Health Minister Greg hunt got very angry at the media for saying that all the people who were nervous about getting the AstraZeneca vaccine could wait until the Pfizer arrived. He said the media were promoting vaccine hesitancy the media were directly quoting Greg hunt. And that really Paul's pissed off Greg hunt, who is a Greg hunt.The government is also very angry at boomers who have developed this vaccine hesitancy for those following at home. Yes, this is the same vaccine hesitancy the government refused to stop Craig Kelly doing. Craig Kelly fans, what the fuck? Are we in silence?Dan Ilic  58:32  Big queuing on Viber?Lewis Hobba  58:35  Oh, interesting. Okay, let's explore that as we go on. Wow, fuck, I didn't say I've never met somebody like Greg Kelly. It's so crazy. But actually, I think that the vaccine hesitancy problem is actually quite easy to fix because boomers stopped trusting vaccines because they believe anything they read on Facebook. So what I have done is I've prepared some Boomer friendly messaging that you can write on your own Facebook wall at any time to make boomers get their second job quicker than their second home. Yeah, that's right. I know what you own. Well, you know what else you gonna take away from me? Come on. Alright, here we go. Here's the things you can write on your Facebook wall to get famous to take the vaccine. Tell them the vaccine doesn't insert a microchip. It inserts an audio book about Graham Kennedy written by Peter fit Simon. A vaccine is just an extra hot coffee. Tell him it's an iPad. Tell him it's a painting by an indigenous artist. Tell him it's a funny tea towel. Tell him the vaccine is a mountain by tell him the vaccine is a low risk family photo. Tell him it's a podcast with Annabel Crabb. Tell them that vaccine would like to hear a story about an old neighbour who recently died. Tell him the vaccine agrees that the two years of high interest rates in the early 90s was the greatest hardship generated ever five. Tell him it's a BBC drama. Tell him it'll make Netflix easy to use. Tell him it's a carport. Tell him it's a second fridge. Tell them it doesn't use American words like diaper and store. It uses Australian words like nappy and shop.Now, we all know that would 100% get the vaccine roll out back on track. Weirdly, that is not the approach our Prime Minister is taking. though. You might have heard this news yesterday. He's calling in the army. Yeah. Yesterday he announced in one of his trademark announcements that the new head of the National Vaccine task force would be Lieutenant General john frewin. If caught I don't know who he is either, but he's a Lieutenant General. Head of the army. If calling in the army to fix his problems, sounds extreme. Keep in mind, Scott Morrison loves to play with his army men. When he was the Minister for border protection. He called in the army to stop the boats. Then once the boat once the army had done that, he made himself a little boat shaped trophy, saying I stopped the boats. I don't know if anyone in the army got a trophy. They may have got a small participation boat. Personally, may I love the idea of getting the military to run a vaccination campaign. It's intimidating but fun. Can never quite get a read on what's going on. defence. Craig Kelly not okay with military on the fence. burners. He came around. Applause we all love. I stick with me try to stick with you if I wasn't begging but thank you.Dan Ilic  1:02:17  Will you be closing with GosfordLewis Hobba  1:02:21  backless wood carving? So here we go. Now stick with me on this army thing. Okay, because I actually think it's a really good idea, right? I would love to see people's faces. When they look up to see Ben Robert Smith walking through the streets, threatening to kick anyone who won't get the vaccine out the us with a prosthetic leg is caring for some reason. All right. I knew when I asked you to stick with me that I would be losing you and I don't care. Why I stopped with the army. The Air Force involved. I want to say fighter jets dropping syringes into aged care facilities. I want to say retired veterans pull their old rifles out of the closet, toss away their bayonets, a fixer Pfizer and go back on the road john judge will fight the anti vaxxers on the beaches of Byron Bay. We shall defend our island whatever the cost may be, and then we'll blame the cost on Kevin Rudd awesome. Look, I get why Scotty calls up to fans anytime he's on the defensive. People trust the army and they're already on the payroll. But I really think there's another group on the payroll who are being criminally overlooked when it comes to helping the vaccine roll out. These people live in camera in a building paid for by taxpayers. They're getting taxpayer funded training every day. I'm talking about the Australian Institute of Sport. Now. The prime minister said that the vaccine rollout wasn't a race. Well, right now we have hundreds of perfectly trained athletes for an Olympics that probably won't happen. So let's put them to work and make it a race. First of all, no one knows more about experimental drug treatments that test the vaccines on them. They put things in their bodies that would stop our doctors have a locally produced vaccine that prevents COVID and is also untraceable by the anti doping authority. We store them in the call room used to a climatized l winter Olympian. Then we're on to the AI SS gold medal standard vaccine logistics. This is quite a plan. So come on the journey. All right. An Australian weightlifter lifts boxes of vaccines off the shelves then carries them to a javelin thrower, who hurls individual vaccines across the warehouse. 100 metre medley relay team will swim vaccines across the state of Tasmania, while the rest will travel in short shorts of marathon runners as they jump off to remote corners of regional Australia. The syringes passed like a relay baton from the marathon runners to the power walkers if they encounter any anti vaxxers of high jumper will frosty flop over them gracefully. Ah, Rachel Victorian centre will contain PPA from the fencing team, and one Greco Roman wrestler. Their job is to pin down vaccine hesitant burgers while our welterweight boxes strap on latex gloves. And instead of giving a left jab to the face, give an Australian a right jab and using the power of the AI si predicts we can have the nation fully vaccinated by the end of the week. Then all we need is to get Nicky Webster to sing a closing ceremony and get all the athletes back to camera for an athlete village level fuckathon. If Scott Marcy needs any more convincing, I promise when that's all over, and everyone agrees that athletes have done their job perfectly. He can get get a little gold medal that says he did it all himselfDan Ilic  1:06:18  but didn't rush up. big thank you to DJ de la koliko Jay senda gusta Drysdale Georgina wasUnknown Speaker  1:06:27  also a big thank you to Isaac ash and then everyone here at the Civic Theatre in New Castle. Big thanks to Ryan mock the Bertha foundation go YouTube token Jacob brown to the tiffin Yaki, Tom Landry Diogenes, Virginia guy by name.Dan Ilic  1:06:41  Until next time, there's always something to be scared of. Good. Hi, Dan Ilic here back again. That was Newcastle. And as you can tell by the end of the show, they were very much on board with what we have to say. And I should let you know if you want any of the things that I was talking about. In my section of the podcast where I do Alan Jones and Dorothy Michela sunburned country. Well, you can download them from the irrational fear newsletter. So go to WWW dot irrational fear.com. Give us your email address, and then we'll send it out, we'll send out the Dorothy Michela in Comic Sans, and the Alan's the fake Alan Jones article you can print off yourself, to put up in your regional shopfront window, we'd love to say that and please, please put it on Twitter or Facebook or email me back a picture of your Alan Jones or Dorothy McKellar, paste it up in the front window of your local shop, we'd love to see that. Before I play the biggest show. I just wanna let you know that we will be coming to Melbourne on August 14. So make sure you put that in your diary. Right now though, here are the best bits of the bigger show.Now regional Australia How is what is the best way to beat climate denialism or to communicate the real climate facts in regional Australia?Mick Neven  1:08:07  I think one of the ways you gotta you got to understand the way people communicate in regional Australia here I think one of those ways is a bumper stickers. And so instead of a lot of bumper stickers, you know, I replaced the fuck off we have full and with fuck off way full of too much carbon. I alsoLewis Hobba  1:08:28  like put one a tiny little bombas so you could shrink them and put them on each one of the mice that are plaguing us on the back end of every little mouse millions of spreading the message.Gabbi Bolt  1:08:40  I think if you're going off like what my regional town where I grew up, how information spread there the most efficient way. town gossip. Like I feel like if you say something like Oh, so and so so and so so and so slept with a solar panel.Lewis Hobba  1:08:55  You should tell the hairdresser he fucked us all the time. Don't tell anyoneGabbi Bolt  1:09:03  Ciara solar panel. Every single person in the region.Dan Ilic  1:09:08  It was the best sex I've ever had. Well, Gabby, you know the people here in the southeast of the continent have suffered pretty horrendous things over the last 18 months. bushfires the promise of the notion recovery fund that hasn't turned up in a city lifting podcasts coming in to do a podcast where you guys have suffered. I'm really sorry. Gabby, is there a bright side to anything that these people have been through?Gabbi Bolt  1:09:38  Ah, well, I've brought this Sesame Street Style song. I found one that I think you might like.Lewis Hobba  1:09:46  Can you guys hear that out the back? Yeah. Cool. CanGabbi Bolt  1:09:50  I have a little more in the phonebook? We can cut this out of the podcast. Cheers, john. Thanks. Anyway, you might not have Have a million bucks might not have the cats and dogs might even have your shoes and socks squad. At least Scott shook your head might not have a good next step. might not have time to take a breath. might not have any fuckin house left, but at least Scotty. He says Don't you know that I don't hold a hose? Um, no, that's not for me. Unless we're referring to a wall, but it might have promised us some relief. might have said, Hey, whatever you need, and he might pop on over to Hawaii, but he can cuz he shook your hand. Spin solo. I never said that.Unknown Speaker  1:11:00  I resent that.Gabbi Bolt  1:11:02  But I disagree with the premise of the question. Yeah, it's gone. Well, actually, Jen told me that bushfires are in fact bad. And until she said that to me. And she also said that How would you feel about girls died in a British fire. I really hadn't heard of that in perspective. So I decided to deal with the bushfire crisis by praying we never got another one and I feel way better. Thank you so much, Jen. He gaslights enough to start another fucking fire. I can't believe he's still in after such a failure. I can't believe he even got enough to tourism Australia might not have a fucking clue. My thought for me or you any might spend all this time protecting. But at least Scotty shook he might not possess any empathy might not uphold governing policy and he might not know how to run the fucking country but at least Scottish. The Scottish Well, he tried to that he stole your hand and then lied to you, but he will say he shook your hand.Unknown Speaker  1:12:26  Thank you, everyone. Hello, hello. Hello. Yes, I'm the DJ normally. officially known as hobo Paul Shaffer, Dan Ilic. I do run a little podcast called news fighters, where I play funny clips and talk about them and I look we've hung a lot of shit on Scott Morrison tonight. So I just thought I'd keep it going. It's great to be back here in Vegas. I actually grew up on the south coast. Here I am there I am having my fifth birthday at the bega cheese factory. Here right here I am. Here Kubina public school there I am from 1986 What happened?Lewis Hobba  1:13:08  Okay, the slideshow going I'm lovingDan Ilic  1:13:11  the jugs more about Dylan's childhood. This is a this is actually this is your therapy session.Unknown Speaker  1:13:19  And of course look, you know growing up in and around cobargo as I did have to say nothing brought me more pride than watching the news last year. And I saw this happenUnknown Speaker  1:13:30  during the fire ravaged town of cobargo. a firefighter refuse to shake the PMS hand. Scott Morrison heckled in cobargo now you know, welcome your Parkway.Unknown Speaker  1:13:45  Yeah, Scott Morrison. They're inventing the social distancing lack of afterwards, believe it or not, Scott Morrison refused to believe that this angle was actually directed at him.Unknown Speaker  1:13:56  Scott Morrison today says he doesn't take it personally. I don't take it personally. I just see it as a sense of frustration.Unknown Speaker  1:14:04  Maybe you should take it personally. Everyone hates you turned up for a photo op in the middle of a catastrophic tragedy. What about the words? You're not welcome here? You fuckwit fuck off my Do you not understand? Anyways, we are we are here to applause there Hang on a second.Lewis Hobba  1:14:29  As a religious guy who is also obsessed with shaking hands. I wonder how he feels about the fact that like God immediately after they sent down a plague that prevented him from touching it might have been assigned. Don't touch me. Stop doing it, Scott. Alright, fine. I'll send you a fucking bad plague stop doingUnknown Speaker  1:14:46  but we are here to talk about climate change. That's the theme of the theme of tonight. And within an election around the corner Scott Morrison has been out on the world stage in his his heart, his heart to finally answer some annoying questions like when the hell is Australia. gonna commit to net zero emissions? And isn't he nailing it? Our goalUnknown Speaker  1:15:04  is to reach net zero emissions as soon as possible. And preferably by 2050. Australia is on the pathway to net zero. Our goal is to get there as soon as we possibly can for Australia, it is not a question of if, or even by when for net zero, but importantly, howUnknown Speaker  1:15:21  what a lack of Imagine if you're you have this kind of lack of commitment in your relationship. Honey, we been engaged for 12 years, when are we going to get married? Well, dear, it's not a question of if or when we get married. How about when soon as we possibly can, preferably by 2050. And when it comes to the house, Scott Morrison says, technology is the ticket. The key to meeting our climate change ambitions is commercialization of low emissions technology. My point about this, though, comes back to technology again, as why we're investing in Priority new technology solutions to our technology investment roadmap initiative, the answer is technology, not taxes. Yes, sir. is saying technology, not taxes, great technology, what kind of technology? There's lots of great technology out there. Is he talking about electric vehicles, solar batteries, pumped hydro technology is the coalition talking about let's have a look,Unknown Speaker  1:16:18  nuclear energy should be on the table as part of Australia's energy future. It's the finding of a parliamentary committee. The Federal Energy minister Angus Taylor, meanwhile, says the government's more than willing to consider nuclear power. YouUnknown Speaker  1:16:29  know, I'm being told that Scott Morrison actually supports nuclear power. It's just he knows it's too difficult to sell politically, if you seriously want zero emissions, if that's what knocks you out. If that's what blows your hair back, well, then nuclear power is where you're going to have to go and ifUnknown Speaker  1:16:45  we are serious and progressing towards net zero emissions, I think it's almost certainly that we'll need to have some form of nuclear power here to try to achieve that.Unknown Speaker  1:16:54  Yes, Senator Matt cannon national senator, Matt Canavan there, and he reckons nuclear is really safe. actually have a look.Unknown Speaker  1:17:01  I have a role. Nuclear has been an incredibly safe technology. People die installing solar panels on roofs.Unknown Speaker  1:17:07  Yes, but I can't remember there being an HBO miniseries about rooftop solar panels. But it's not just nuclear. Don't worry. There's some other technology scammers keen onUnknown Speaker  1:17:19  our ambition is to produce the cheapest green hydrogen in the world that one of the most important targets that Australia has, is to be able to produce hydrogen at $2. a kilo is the President in the United States, you have the Silicon Valley. Here in Australia, we are creating our own hydrogen ballots. And when it comes to the hydrogen valleys we can be developing all across the country.Unknown Speaker  1:17:45  Yes, hydrogen Valley is coincidentally also the name of the second worst King gizzard and the lizard wizard side project. The reason our government if you're wondering where this sudden obsession with hydrogen comes from, did a bit of research and it turns out that they realised they can they can get away with calling. They can call it clean hydrogen or blue hydrogen, even when it's made by burning coal or gas, thanks to this thing called carbon capture and storage is not new technology. Isn't that going well? Which the best I can figure out this kind of thing where Scott maybe has more insight into this kind of works out like I think if you fought and then plan to ceiling, the ceiling cancels out the fog, is that Yeah, is that basically Howard's showing me that if he just didn't fire to beginDan Ilic  1:18:30  with coming upstairs or if he fought in a jar? Oh, I put it in the ground. That's carbon capture storage. perfectly. Well, the technically, if I did it, it'd be me. Thank catches. Yes. But the extending analogy to coal plants. Is that right, Scott Ludlam?Unknown Speaker  1:18:47  Suddenly This is on me. Yes, Scott. This is your this is your analogy. You have to land this.Unknown Speaker  1:18:54  Anyway. Energy minister Angus Taylor loves hydrogen. Here he is on radio national talking about blue hydrogen until he's literally blue in the face.Unknown Speaker  1:19:04  Is it green hydrogen or hydrogen made with fossil fuels?Unknown Speaker  1:19:07  It's clean hydrogen. What's that? That's That's the point. It's clean hydrogen. industries.Unknown Speaker  1:19:15  It wasn't made with fossil fuels are made with renewable energy.Unknown Speaker  1:19:18  The point that many make when they're asking that question is we can't possibly make anything from fossil fuels. Well, you know what, if it's zero emissions, it's fine. That's the point. It's got to be clean. fuels. How do we make it zero emissions he will be made with anything that allows us to reduce emissions is blue. Hydrogen that can be done with zero emissions is green hydrogen that can be done with zero emissions. You know, we made a lot of horses in this race.Unknown Speaker  1:19:46  That interview went so badly that Angus Taylor was later caught on Facebook saying bad, bad job, Angus.Dan Ilic  1:19:53  But the other thing that was a very nice joke for this audience.Unknown Speaker  1:19:58  The other the other reason Morrison loves hydrogen aside from the fact that will keep his billionaire coal mining magnate mates happy is that it can make trucks car perma.Unknown Speaker  1:20:08  I mean hydrogen can be used to drive vehicles. I mean up there in the Pilbara at the moment they're putting him in the mining trucks.Unknown Speaker  1:20:15  Yes, let's power some vehicles of flammable hydrogen. Let's see. How did that go last time we tried that. Let's have a look here. Oh, there we go. There's some there's some nice flammable hydrogen there in the Hindenburg. Nice and blue. I think if it wasn't black and white, sorry, a bit too soon for Hindenburg jokes. Anyways, in conclusion, the Australian Government is kicking the can down the road on climate change, not setting targets and trying to sell us dirty and dangerous unproven technologies. But if you think we can't do any better than this one, maybe we should just have a little look across the ditch to see what'sUnknown Speaker  1:20:46  happened knows fossil fuel subsidies part of New Zealand's for action points, one price carbon to make climate related financial disclosures, mandatory three ind fossil fuel subsidies and for finance adaptation.Unknown Speaker  1:21:06  Now that's a prime minister who can probably get a handshake.Dan Ilic  1:21:15  fame is New Zealand appear to be doing a lot better than us in many circumstances. Why is that?Unknown Speaker  1:21:25  Scott crazy thing to be famous for. She's got a green climate change minister. Like there's a there's an interesting example. Sorry to be the Ernest one sheet,Dan Ilic  1:21:39  this is why you're here.Unknown Speaker  1:21:40  I'll be really quick. All right, and then these guys can carry on. You've got I think, a very different political culture. It's not saturated with rupert murdoch publications. And you've got a green labour Alliance where people are actually decent to each other. They show up at each other's press conferences, they support each other. It's not perfect. There's plenty of problems there. But I just think that political culture is very different to hearLewis Hobba  1:22:01  that actually sounds like more of a fantasy than Lord of the Rings. From a New Zealand perspective, as well, yeah. And they get along, and they all live in holes. In the coalition there they have hobbits I've seen Oh, thank God. Yeah.Unknown Speaker  1:22:19  I think one of the big problems. And I'm not totally familiar with the New Zealand political climate at all, but I just think you can't steal from the Treasury and govern the country at the same time. It's like, one or the other. Right?Dan Ilic  1:22:36  Make it's your turn. Give it a crack. Yeah, everyone McNab is rational. Yeah.Unknown Speaker  1:22:45  Hello, everybody. What we're doing, of course, is we're talking about climate change. And if you look at a lot of what we're saying is pretty negative. And you think, well, how can we have hope for the future? And so I'm just trying to lighten the mood a little bit by letting us understand how we can have hope for the future. And if you do need to, you need to be optimistic and you need to be positive. And if you want to learn lessons on optimism and positivity, look no further then the quality over leadership because they have turned optimism and positivity into an art form. Okay, because they don't they don't call it being bribed by the fossil fuel industry, do they? They call it a political donation. And they call it a natural transition from politics to the Board of Rio Tinto and Anglo American. I say that that's positivity, isn't it? They don't call it they don't call it they don't call it a colossal waste of taxpayers money on soon to be useless infrastructure that we don't actually need. See, now they call it a gasoline recovery. Right, that's positivity. That's optimism. And we need to take that onto ourselves as we move forward into the future because yeah, like climate change is happening and the planet's heating up, which is bad, but if you've ever watched your done your laundry on a 45 degree day it drives like that. That's positivity. That's like yes, the polar ice caps are melting. But that also creates more room to play footy and cricket. Okay, yes, the sea levels are rising, which is bad, but the more the seas rise, the less room there is for bushfires. So that's positivity, maybe too soon, as well as positivity Scott, this is what we're trying by. No, I think maybe we should lose the term bushfire because there is a lot of negative connotations attached to the word bushfire. I think maybe we should progress in future and we should just call it like free range barbecue. like seven houses will last in today's free range barbecue. Oh, They just got a little bit overexcited they didn't. That's nice. And and you know, like, they do say that. We were you know, though one in 100 year fire events are going to become more common and we're going to see them like one one in 184 events are going to happen every five or six years, which is not great. But on the positive side, it is an opportunity to get more volunteers and people contributing to their community. You know, we're looking at the positives I was evacuated on Ash Wednesday, on Black Saturday, I spent six hours patrolling my house doing our amber patrol. And you know, the 2019 20 fires, I inhaled a lot of smoke. And like, How lucky am I that I'm only 46 years old, but I've already been through three one in 100 fire year. And I'm only 46 I can feed hates Boring. Boring, you know, like if you saying that, you know insurance premiums for fire insurance are going up. It's too expensive to get fire insurance which you which is bad, but on the positive side that just encourages self sufficiency, doesn't it? Well, you know, pennies for insurance when you can have a fight and go might stick with me.Dan Ilic  1:26:28  Make a promise should have warned you. Many of this crowd have recently been through an extremely traumatic event. I'm moving on from Yeah, moving on. I don't know if you I shouldUnknown Speaker  1:26:40  have told you. I'm moving on from the fires. I've watched the news. I think I was evacuated last Wednesday. Climate change. Worst case scenario we need to be positive right. And we don't want to I don't think we should call it the total collapse of civilization as we know it. We should call it a digital detox. Like it's not going to be a brutal fight for survival in the toxic wasteland of a planet that we destroyed through greed and stupidity. Right It's an opportunity to learn new skills. Exactly like your spirit. Like if you just pick you out or you're sitting around the front that have you ever thought about killing someoneUnknown Speaker  1:27:34  while you get on board because like and just so everyone's aware, right? I am now going to talk about killing someone but I'm doing it in a sense of positivity. I don't want you to think it is murder. Right don't think of it as murder Think of it as resource management. Being positive because you never know there could be some climate change disaster could happen before we know that no one predicted like the the permafrost is melting, releasing methane into the air which could suddenly react with all the carbon dioxide and create a thick band of smoke around the entire planet blocking out all the light from the sun every living thing on earth smothering to death, humanity starving no Lauren order anymore, and it's just me and another dude. And a can of peaches. Don't say well, if I want to eat those peaches, I'm gonna have to kill this guy. When he comes at me with with a ninth or ninth century Viking battle axe that he's looted from the home of a mediaeval weapons enthusiast. But luckily, I've got my replica US Marine K bar combat knife. Okay, so he comes in swinging the axe, I duck under it, grab his arm and just jam that knife up under his ribs like real close. You look into his eyes. You just see that shock. He's like, Oh, he's got me. Give that knife a twist. You feel that hot spurt of blood run down your arm. This thing that's in his heart. He's dead. He goes limp, drops the axe and you're up close looking into his eyes just watching his soul start to leave his body. And then with his last dying breath, you guys,Unknown Speaker  1:29:10  I just I justUnknown Speaker  1:29:14  I just wanted to feed my daughter. Enjoy heaven decade. When you drop into the ground and your sheep that knife you grab that canopies you tear the top off and you're stuck with your bare hands. You're shovelling peaches in your starving mouth. You've got blood and peach juice just dribbling off your chin and you have never felt so alive.Unknown Speaker  1:29:55  Obviously I haven't given that a lot of thought. It's a well, it's just something that popped into my head when I was trying to be optimistic about the future.Dan Ilic  1:30:16  How do you folks stay optimistic about the future? How do you keep your optimism going? where we are right now? I mean, Gabby, maybe I'll start with you, your, your 25 year young person when I wants to be optimistic? Oh, you know, I'm alive. We're here. Well, we're not when I was 25, I started my journey in terms of kind of climate action and trying to try to make the world a better place. How do you feel about it? Like, how do young people keep up?Gabbi Bolt  1:30:38  I feel like, well, if we're talking about my very sheltered bubble of social awareness, we laugh at anything, that's crap. And that tends to just work. It doesn't. So we just laugh at terrible, terrible things.Lewis Hobba  1:30:54  I think it's always good to keep in mind when I'm in a low point about the future of the world. And even though the current of the world is to remember that eventually, all people will die. And they are the ones who are really responsible. And that's what that's what helps me sleep at night is knowing that my grandparents are already gone, and thank God. They will never they'll never have to experience what you might have to experience. Yeah, no, my sweet grandparents who I loved but who are gone will never have to say the horrible things that I'll say my future. Yeah, yeah, I stay optimistic. Yeah, I think we've fulfilled the assignmentUnknown Speaker  1:31:31  that, you know, I think one cause for optimism, from my point of view is that as a 46 year old, I've really had the best years that I could possibly have. And whatever happens now is just done a bit. You know, I've lived a good life upDan Ilic  1:31:47  to now it's all peaches from Hey, mate. Can I get the vaccine then if you don't want it? I actually know I want to go back to Bali, at least one. So I'll be taking.Gabby, the budget was about four weeks ago. And in that time, you've had time to process who the winners and the losers are?Gabbi Bolt  1:32:14  Yeah. That's the preamble. We wrote because I wrote some a month ago. Yeah, I mean, look, there are real. No, there are no, there are some winners in the budget. I don't know if any of them are in this room. Or in this state, except for Parliament House. But I've written a song about our views in the budget. I wrote it for a little gang called the chaser who now pay me to be stupid. This This song is about the budget. everyone's favourite subject to sing about. I don't care what's in the budget. Because Murdoch says it's fine. The sky said battlers loved it. And so did Channel Nine. It's my fault that I'm unemployed. So now all my time is free. Everyone's a winner. I'll accept the AVC sorry, Louis. Murdoch back the budget. That's all I need to hear. I can relax and turn my brain off watch the footy with a beat. The country's bouncing back today. There's no way we could fail. Unless you've come from India, then you can go to jail. There's money for our billionaires because they're so oppressed. But if you're on job seeker, then they'll send you Robo debt and forget funding inquiries into indigenous dance. But I do hear that there's cash involved towards some come proof desks.Dan Ilic  1:33:48  That one was wrong. We're lucky I guess I just remembered we're in a council chambers.Gabbi Bolt  1:33:53  Clean your surfaces everyone clean your surfaces. Were lucky in this country. We survived the COVID plague and our budget will reflect the sensible changes that were made. So you do not get to whinge and whine about what is being paid. Unless you're over 35 or prefer your grandparents alive or if you're in public education or a victim of house rental inflation or if you want churches to pay tax little one day get a Pfizer vaccine in the healthcare sector award effector or in the centre link online. Don't worry, because Murdoch says it's fine. Yeah. Thanks. I apologise for the come desktop.Dan Ilic  1:34:40  Our next guest has worked at the highest levels at the Australian Parliament striving for climate justice. Now he's just one of you, you know, living and working in eurobodalla Shire. Despite his name being Scott, he's here for the long haul. It's Scott.Scott, do you um, do you It shouldn't be a name. Have you considered calling yourself scout lard? Really? We just said that okay, no. What's your next question? I know you moved here in 2018. Has anything major happened since that time? pretty quiet? No. Was it like you know packing you packed up your life in person you move to this place. Why did you choose this area to move to? I,Unknown Speaker  1:35:26  it reminds me that Southwest TWA. And actually, it reminds me a little bit of Taranaki and New Zealand, dairy country and misty and gorgeous. But I came here more or less at random to write a book, little writer's retreat a couple of years ago, and just had all my stuff moved over. And so now you're stuck with me? Oh, that's okay.Dan Ilic  1:35:43  And so were you here during 2019 2020?Unknown Speaker  1:35:46  Not here, here. But out the back of tobacco that 20 Kay's from tobacco. Wow, the little town that we are so very proud of where that footage was mostly taken.Dan Ilic  1:35:55  Do you know a few of those people in those clips? A little bit? Yes. But the whole country knows them now. What are those folks like what you know, the people in those clips? Like I thinkUnknown Speaker  1:36:05  it's a it's a very down to earth place. It's surprisingly it. I mean, it's this beautiful kind of crossover of Palmer and prayer prayer flags. This whole district is just really interesting, culturally crossover country.Dan Ilic  1:36:17  Yeah, yeah. When you were going through the bushfires, like how did you What was your story at that time, like how what happened hereUnknown Speaker  1:36:25  are supposed to be so many buddy stories in just in this room. So as probably not super special. But we were awoken about 4:35am, New Year's Eve 2019. And just evacuated as quick as we could get out of our place and sheltered in the Roma for a couple of days and spent the next six weeks I suspect, like many people down here, just dodging fires. So we evacuated four times as and ended up with the thing around us on three sides as terrifying.Dan Ilic  1:36:55  As someone who's being part of the most powerful force in Australia. Well, not necessarily in government, but someone who's been in power. And I didn't know, you know, I missed that whole chapter of my life. Did you expect when when you're going through that thing to do that moment Did you expect are in a moment, the federal government is going to do something and we'll be looked after,Unknown Speaker  1:37:20  we were all hoping that Morrison would helicopter in and try and shake people's hands. That's what everybody in this district was really hoping would happen. ADan Ilic  1:37:31  couple of people were laughing I see himUnknown Speaker  1:37:34  harshly judging Morrison because we've since found out that he wasn't actually shaking hands. He was laying on hands and healing people with prayer. And I think if we'd known that at the time, it would have made all the difference. Not at all creepy or weird. For you.Dan Ilic  1:37:48  What was the biggest disconnect of that moment? For a few who's you know, you've been part of Parliament, really? And you're in this moment? Did you? What What were you going through in your headUnknown Speaker  1:38:00  disconnect is that people have been predicting this for at least 20 years, Ross Garner wrote a thing, 20 years or 15 years ago saying by the 2020s will be observing this, this is going to be a reality. So the disconnect is that we have seen this thing coming. And it's hard to pretend to be surprised. It's like being surprised by a snail creeping up on you. You know, we've seen this thing coming for an awfully long time. And now it's here.Dan Ilic  1:38:25  Yeah. When you saw you were living through the experience of this government's inaction. What surprised you most about that moment?Unknown Speaker  1:38:38  I was surprised they were so utterly flat footed, like before, he remember that rancid little TV ad that they put out with him kind of striding back in with the army and they've ripped a bunch of money out of disability funding, and suddenly there's going to be cash everywhere. I felt like for a unit that is basically completely in hock to the coal and gas industry, and that people have been predicting this is going to happen for decades that they would have been a little bit more prepared and at least had their lines straight. But they had absolutely no idea what to do at the guys in Hawaii. Do you have something funny to say?Dan Ilic  1:39:09  No, no, no. I asked you Scott. You shouldn't feel like you need to be terrifying.Lewis Hobba  1:39:15  I promise I'm not here to hurt you. Scott. was really hoping you could lighten the mood. Yeah, no. And I was wondering is yeah that's how the people came to say a fight. No, I was wondering if you knew Scott Morrison personally because you don't know him personally. Because it's so strange to me because I felt like we the previous Prime Ministers even though I have disagreed with them. I have been out ago I can see why you wanted this job. I cannot understand why the fuck he wants this job. Like, do you have any insight as to why he actually wants to be prime minister doesn't seem to have any joy from it means any sort of direction for it that he'sUnknown Speaker  1:39:54  doing God's work. He was called to it by God. Sounds Mantega. It sounds man. But that's why whyLewis Hobba  1:40:02  do you think that's that's legitimately? Because now that he's been cold? Is he waiting for like the next coal to tell him what to do? Like? What's going on?Dan Ilic  1:40:11  to manage your timezone? I think that would be a more appropriate job for flashing lights.Unknown Speaker  1:40:20  No, nothing, you would ask the same question, why does this bag of custard want to be the Prime Minister? Even the religious thing doesn't quite land, like is that really his caper? Because he's doing a shit job even at that. Get him.Dan Ilic  1:40:38  So when when the when the feds didn't turn up, and then people were left to their own devices. What did you say thatUnknown Speaker  1:40:44  was people helped each other people. People lend each other generators, people were hooning, around in Utah, putting spot fires out people just bought us food. They were folk coming out of bermagui, who were just doing enormous stuff in this big kitchen, and then just shuttling it out to where people needed it. Water got delivered. So it's all the mutual aid stuff, all the beautiful bottom up stuff was what actually happened.Dan Ilic  1:41:10  Does it surprise you that there's no kind of support for those kind of groups, even if the government's gonna outsource this sort of support to these grassroots groups? How have you been to support these groups?Unknown Speaker  1:41:22  There's a little bit landing now. And I think some of some of that stuff is getting a small amount institutional backing, but it's, you know, came too late, obviously, for last year. The main thing if we can learn anything from last year is that the kind of groups doing that incredible stuff do get backed up and supported.Dan Ilic  1:41:39  We've seen stories over the last six months about this notional $2 billion and half of it being delivered war where is the winner? No Show of hands who got some of the $2 billion buddy for the podcast listener. There is a person with their hand up how much should you get? Red Cross for a really really good Red Cross for good people. And SalvationUnknown Speaker  1:42:10  Army and they've put money the Red Cross in put me into the actual pods and the government is supposed to hire for we had signed over $10,000 Red Cross money the governmentDan Ilic  1:42:28  Wow. Wow. So that was that that's a charity plugging the get with a government fell down.Unknown Speaker  1:42:33  There was a lot of that. Yeah, institutional charities but also just these networks of people who just had to do what needed to be done.Dan Ilic  1:42:41  God, it's um, anyone else got stories of this? They want to share this moment of kind of?Lewis Hobba  1:42:50  That's what you're here for. Scott tell a joke.Dan Ilic  1:42:53  Well, Scott, plugging the incongruity of the Australian voter, after seeing whatever everything we've gone through, and seeing how labour doesn't really have a Climate Action Plan themselves, how does the Australian voter heading into election season how should they vote to see meaningful climate action?Unknown Speaker  1:43:18  I'd say don't wait till elections roll around. I reckon that's the first mistake that we're going to make. If we hang around until an election at the time of Scott Morrison's choosing, like we just we lose another. I don't know what six to 12 months of waiting around tapping our toes, it's time to riot, like it's actually time to take a bit of power back.Lewis Hobba  1:43:41  This is the opinion of former senator Scott Ludlam. Yeah. As a as an employee of the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, distanced myself from the riot against the government comments. But I support Scott's ability to say thatDan Ilic  1:43:58  that's real courage. Yeah, that's what they've beenLewis Hobba  1:44:03  fucking suing us every week. Give me a break.Dan Ilic  1:44:08  So with with when we say don't wait another six months, what what do you mean by that?Scott Ludlam  1:44:14  There was some really courageous crew up on the roof of Andrew constancies office earlier in this week. There are school strikers in his town who've been rebelling for at least two years that I'm aware of like a really courageous crew. There's extinction rebellion chapter just flared up here and that has got a long way to run. I'm not saying like when the election comes around, check and see who's paying their bills don't vote for people who are cashing checks from Santos and the resources sector. That part's really simple, but we simply cannot wait for long enough for elections to come around. And there's so much beautiful stuff going on like in this district. Big Cheese not even as a joke or as a punchline are talking about circular economy right across the whole valley, like in a serious way. Just spend a couple hours reading this stuff. They're not fooling around. Yeah, like, if government is way, way back and the community's ready and businesses ready, then let's just get on with it and not wait for these clowns.Dan Ilic  1:45:10  We are the leaders. Right.Well, Scott, thank you so much for joining us on irrational fear welcome. Sorry, I was so earnest the thinking you know, that's, that's the, that's the job of this section. Just to top off your earnestness where we have a lot of Patreon supporters. So to fund the show, we've got a few in our front row here tonight, which is great. We're gonna be giving half of our Patreon tonight to the Women's Resource Centre, Baga. And the and the other half. We're gonna be giving the other half to the extinction rebellion legal fund. So that's about that, you know, that's, that's some good money going their way. So hopefully, hopefully, it's not exactlyLewis Hobba  1:46:00  they can commit some more crimeDan Ilic  1:46:02  is to pay their legal bills and their legal bills. Well, thank you very much. God lovesUnknown Speaker  1:46:09  a rational fear.Dan Ilic  1:46:15  Now, Gabby, it's become evident that Scott is finding it difficult to show any kind of leadership and when he does, there's always someone behind the scenes who is incredibly powerful in his ear.Gabbi Bolt  1:46:25  Yeah, I'm actually I was a bit of a fly on the wall recently at a parliamentary karaoke party. And he actually he got up to sing quite a bit of an elton john banger, actually, but it wasn't quite the lyricism that I was like, everyone kind of does things that like he actually sing the lyrics quite well. So I thought I'd just reenact what I heard that fateful evening at the parliament TerryLewis Hobba  1:46:59  Great, well, he Gabby, I'm really gonna have to actually host the party now. Any open phones? Good.Gabbi Bolt  1:47:17  Hey, kids, learn from my empathy consultant. Turns out all that I have to say is I find these guys repulsive. I won't say a thing about how I will propose real change. But if I tried to cry, maybe no one will notice anything strange. Cuz I stand up for women when they need me, but are only the ones I like to January and the girls on the road, so my relatives could really even do I haven't name names. I mean, I'm not to blame. I couldn't have suffered testers right. But I didn't want to know why. Just Jenny and the girls. We can sing in this venue. Good. Well, then we'll write little karaoke over are ready. You know what to do?Dan Ilic  1:48:40  expressional Thank you very much. irrational. guest tonight, Dylan, Bain and Gabby Bo Lewis, Tama MC Devin, Scotland them. I'm Daniel, it's me. Thanks to ride Mike's the Bertha foundation Patreon supporters Until next week, there's always something to be scared of. Goodnight. That's it. How good was that to live shows all in one podcast. Don't say we don't give you anything for nothing, because we give you lots for nothing. Speaking of that, if you want to pay for some of the stuff you're getting for free, please jump to our Patreon patreon.com forward slash irrational fear. We need all the help we can get. We're almost off the end of our Bertha fellowship money, which means we're going to be desperate for more Patreon supporters to support the podcast. So if you want us to keep making podcasts and meet keep making funny memes to keep making sketches online, please go to patreon.com forward slash irrational fears getting more important because we've got the election coming up. You know someone's going to do it. Please hit us up patreon.com forward slash a rational fear. Also, I want to say a big shout out to Jacob brown on the tepanyaki timeline, who smashed this best bits of these two shows together. Despite Having COVID-19 Yep, absolutely champion if it very sick boy but managed to pull it off. So thank you, Jacob round. Really appreciate it. He's a bigger boy and he couldn't even come to our show in Baga which was an absolute shame. We would have loved to laugh with him there but his mom came. And that was good enough. It was like it was like having it was like I was gonna say I was like having close relative of Jacob brown there, but that's exactly what it was like. Anyway, thanks very much. Until next week, doesn't we suddenly be scared off goodbye. A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🎟️ GET A TICKET TO OUR NEWCASTLE SHOW — JUNE 5TH🎟️ GET A TICKET TO OUR BEGA SHOW — JUNE 13TH👕 BUY OUR MERCH HEREOn the A Rational Fear podcast this week —Ben RussellSadie Bruce LomackLewis HobbaDan Ilic+ Special guest: Daniel Bleakley from Miners In Teslas🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🎟️ GET A TICKET TO OUR NEWCASTLE SHOW — JUNE 5TH🎟️ GET A TICKET TO OUR BEGA SHOW — JUNE 13TH👕 BUY OUR MERCH HEREA Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🎟️ GET A TICKET TO OUR NEWCASTLE SHOW — JUNE 5TH🎟️ GET A TICKET TO OUR BEGA SHOW — JUNE 13TH👕 BUY OUR MERCH HEREOnce a month on the A Rational Fear podcast feed with publish a Greatest Moral Podcast Of Our Generation podcast. These are long-form chats with climate leaders from all walks of life. This month I bring you two conversations with a couple of comedians whose work and energy around climate justice has inspired me for years.🌏 IN THE CLIMATE NEWS SECTION:Linh Do and I also chat with energy journalist and fellow Bertha Fellow, Antonia Juhasz about the Dutch Court ruling that Shell must cut their emissions to meet the Paris Agreement targets, and how shareholders of Chevron and Exxon are forcing those companies to reckon with their own carbon footprint.🎙️FEATURE INTERVIEWS:The Juice Media's Giordano Nanni, who's Honest Government Ads reach millions and millions of people on-line. He's one of Australia's most influential YouTube creators on issues that matter.and Rod Quantock. Rod is no strange to Australian comedy fans. From his early stand up days at The Last Laugh, to his work on TV shows like Australia You're Standing In It (yes, and Captain Snooze).Rod dedicated the last couple of decades to doing comedy about climate change . He is the guy who inspired me to start A Rational Fear as a vehicle to bring more people to the topic of climate change in an accessible way. The conversation with Rod Quantock is a little …. depressing but it's worth hearing his point of view as a guy who has been active in this space for a long time…and is tired.Enjoy the interviews and see you at the LIVE shows in Newcastle, Bega, Sydney and Melbourne!🎟️ GET A TICKET TO OUR NEWCASTLE SHOW — JUNE 5TH🎟️ GET A TICKET TO OUR BEGA SHOW — JUNE 13TH Dan Ilic  0:00  Hello, hello. We've got two great interviews for you today Giordano from the juice media and also rod contact. But before we do that, I just want to acknowledge I'm on gadigal land in the eora nation,Linh Do  0:10  and I'm on the lands of the war Andriy people of the Kulin nation.Dan Ilic  0:14  All right, let's kick it off with the climate news despiteUnknown Speaker  0:17  global warming, or rational fear is adding a little more hot air with long form discussions with climate leaders. Good. This is called Don't be afraid the heat waves and droughts greatest mass extinction tomorrow we're facing a manmade disaster podcast, climate criminalsUnknown Speaker  0:43  ration all of this with global warming and a lot of it's a hoax. But write a small podcast about generation for short,Dan Ilic  0:54  now listen, before we get straight into the climate news, I want to let everybody know that we are doing live shows in Newcastle in Vegas for a rational fear we're also going to Melbourne but a little bit later on. We are performing June five in Newcastle where we'll have James panda from semi j cursed and dries out from reputation rehab in Hungary based Louis harbour or so from Triple J. It's basically people used to be on hungry based it's gonna be a base mini reunion. It's gonna be fantastic. And also James benders from the Rodney John's half hour adult TV show that I still do on channel 10. Also, we've got Georgina Woods who is from lock the gate, and DJ diabolical from news fighters. It's going to be fast, funny, it's going to be like q&a on crack. We're going to be talking a lot about the hunter. So if you are in New Castle and you want to come along, please do. It's going to be great. We've released tickets have already started to sell. I think we've sold 20 or 30 tickets already amazing. Yeah. And we are trying to work out also workshop that you can be at Lynn where we do some kind of digital main workshop where we can teach people how to make names on the internet.Linh Do  2:03  It's gonna be hard, it's gonna be this funny thing where we're meeting offline in real life in person. things on the internet. This is how all right digital activism starts. It's actually not on the internet. So get excited and get tickets.Dan Ilic  2:16  So yeah, do follow a rational fee on all the social medias and we'll let you know when that workshops gonna be but during five at the Newcastle Civic Theatre, get your tickets details are in the show notes. All right, huge week in a climate news this week, we could talk a bit about bravest losing their water licence to to create the Galilee coal mine, which is pretty funny. You know, it's very, it's good comedy to say these guys going ahead creating a coal mine. But we weren't because something has wiped that off the slate. And we are very lucky to be joined by Antonia yuhas, fellow Berta fellow to talk to us through some of the biggest news happening in climate probably ever.Linh Do  2:55  Antonia, thanks for joining us. We just woke up to this excellent news. But tell us more Spain. Good bad, what's awake? Is the fossil fuel industry being having?Unknown Speaker  3:04  No I'd say it's been a really, really knock their heads together, run over them with a tractor drag them behind the wheel of the car kind of kind of kind of weak,Dan Ilic  3:18  dragged him behind the wheel of an electric car, probably a new f150 lightning maybe.Unknown Speaker  3:25  Now I think they're gonna I think it's like data behind a car that's puffing out a whole lot of polluting exhausts that make them suck it in or making the rest of us do it and hold them accountable before it kind of weDan Ilic  3:38  all right, and now we've had a couple of huge rulings by shareholders and by court. Let's walk us through just quickly. What First of all, let's start off with shell in the Netherlands. Shell is being forced to slash its pollution by a Dutch court.Unknown Speaker  3:51  It's a massive ruling. So the Court upheld that companies have a requirement under the Paris Climate accord to essentially meet the standards of the Paris Climate accord and that it runs contrary to the guaranteed human rights guaranteed to European citizens, for Shell to destroy the climate. And so shell must change its practices so that it doesn't destroy the climate and the ruling order the company to nearly have so by 40% cut its emissions across its entire supply chain its entire chain production chain within less than 10 years so by 2030 45% cut in emissions from counting not only its own production and exploration and refining and transporting of oil and natural gas, but also what its suppliers contribute to emissions and what its consumers contribute to emissions. When So we're talking scope one, scope two, scopeDan Ilic  5:02  three, the whole thing. Indeed, wow, that's such a cool thing. Like, it's so incredible that this this fossil fuel giant is kind of being pulled together like this by a regulatory body. And I guess the Netherlands is so progressive in places like in kind of areas like this, or like, how do they get to this point of kind of forcing shell to do this,Unknown Speaker  5:23  they're saying that in signing the Paris Climate accord, nations have created essentially have agreed on a moral norm. And that moral norm is that the world cannot be warmed beyond 1.5 degrees Celsius. And that not only our governments accountable to that norm, but with this ruling, so to our companies, so that there isn't, there isn't an international body that exists to regulate multinational corporations. And that's what the what the court is also saying is, it is the obligation of the company to adhere to the norms of its home government. And the agreements that that government has signed, including the Paris Climate accord, and including human rights accords, under the European Union, for the case of shell and the Netherlands.Dan Ilic  6:15  This sounds like it's gonna be a great day for Australian corporates, I can see shell moving their headquarters to Canberra, where Australia will provide sanctuary for companies like shell to keep the learning at the current levels.Unknown Speaker  6:30  I mean, it I wonder if that would solve the problem. Certainly what would not solve shells problem is to move its operations from one place to another. So for example, the courts really clear that wherever the cuts come from, Shell has to achieve a 45% reduction. So if shell moved all of its operations to Australia, it would still have to meet this obligation. I have no idea what would happen if it moved its headquarters.Dan Ilic  7:03  Also, let's talk about Exxon and Chevron quickly, as someone who's covered this space, how you feeling about shareholders kind of holding these two companies to account this week,Unknown Speaker  7:12  all three events happened with Exxon's annual shareholder meeting, Chevron's annual shareholder meeting shells, court ruling all happened on Wednesday, May 26 2021, it's a day that's going to go down in infamy for these for these oil companies. Shareholders at Exxon got two seats on the board, for activist shareholders that want to force the company to act to be more aggressive on climate and to address the climate, to do anything on the climate. And over at Chevron shareholders force the company to have a much more aggressive accounting on how its emissions impact for climate and to try and reduce those emissions.Dan Ilic  7:52  I see you as someone who's covered this energy space for ever, how do you feel about a day like this? And what does it mean to you?Unknown Speaker  8:00  It's a day of reckoning for the oil industry, it's saying I, you're going to have to shrink your footprint that the climate crisis is real, it's been accepted, there are costs associated that people across the spectrum are not going to take so they're not going to accept any longer. And that's those impacted by the harms. That's investors, that's policymakers that financers finance years. So that it's it's a it's a statement from everyone who suffers the consequences of these of the company's continued continuing to operate, without any concern for their impact on the climate or unwillingness to respond to their own knowledge about their harms on the climate that will not be accepted anymore, that the costs are too high. However, when measures the word cost,Dan Ilic  9:00  yeah, and environmentally, socially, financially. It's so fascinating to see how the world is moving to this direction. But there are a few rogue states like Australia who are still accounting for emissions in a way that is only financial and can't, can't measure this for long term strategy for long term value creation. And it's so disheartening, being in this country to see the leadership of our country not even considering this not even blinking, putting in more gas when the rest of the world is getting out rapidly.Unknown Speaker  9:30  That's the thing is like talk about rogue actors. There's no more rogue actor than Exxon, there's almost no more rogue actor than Chevron. There's almost no more rogue actor than show. And what each of these events is is an attempt to say well, you may want to be robot but we're gonna hold you to account so for example, this is basically trying to get at it from from every angle so if the view late you then the court will hold the company to account if The courts and the governments will hold the company to account then the shareholders. Well, if the shareholders won't, then the lenders will if the lenders won't, then you know, like, and that's what's happening is that basically, you know, this has been building over decades of organising and activism and demands to try and get at this problem at every single way, because you're talking about the world's most powerful and wealthy wherever they used to be companies, and the world's most powerful and wealthy countries, which are many of which if they remain, if they if they continue to tie themselves to fossil fuels, they won't be either. So the companies are no longer the most powerful companies when I used to write about when I wrote my book, the tyranny of oil, the world's most powerful industry and what we must do to stop it in 2008, it was the world's most powerful industry. It's not today. Yeah, it's not the case anymore. And that is going to happen to the governments too.Linh Do  10:54  So I guess I tried to do the other thing that for me kept coming up with all of this really great news overnight is like sprint One, two and three emissions. Do you mind just like telling us? What aspect three missions for listeners that might not be aware?Antonia Juhasz  11:06  Oh, I hope I can. So let's say scope. Creep missions are the emissions that are burned by the consumers of fossil fuels. So those are the emissions that come when we drive our cars and aeroplanes fly. And companies have tried to say that that's not their responsibility. It's they've used the argument that tobacco companies use, which was, well, we know that our product is harmful, and we know that it hurts people. But if you want to drive it and you want to fly it, then that's your fault.Linh Do  11:36  Like it's an argument that the NRA has used a lot as well, right. It's not guns that kill people. It's the people that use the guns. And I think fossil fuel companies have definitely gotten away with that, too. People just find the coal. I mean, how widmet responsibility Campbell,Unknown Speaker  11:53  exactly. And similarly misled the public about the content, what they knew to be the consequences of that consumption, right. So the companies knew the consequences of that consumption decades ago. And that's part of the shell case that that the plaintiffs are arguing is that shelah has known for decades, the harms of this of consumption of its product, and helped mislead the public about that and did not act accordingly on that information. And so it also is part of similar to the tobacco argument is that consumers actually didn't know it. They were misled about what the harms would be about consumption. And now the companies with the shell ruling are being told, actually, you have to account for that, for that consumption. And also, that's what Chevron is saying it what its shareholders are saying to the company is we're going to require you to account for that consumption as well.Dan Ilic  12:46  Thank you. And Tony, you has fellow Berta fellow. Thank you, Lynn and Dan, looking at? Look, I think that's enough common use, but there's what I want to leave you with one other singling? You know, our minister for emissions reduction, Angus Taylor. He favoured, he was asked on three a W by Neil Mitchell. If he drives an electric car. What do you think his answer was?Linh Do  13:07  I mean, even though you think you've been his job description, he probably walked around the answer and told us all something a little bit depressing. It's not that he's riding his bike everywhere, but he's driving a guzzlerDan Ilic  13:18  that he made it absolutely clear. And he said, I am not driving an electric car as if he's never going to drive an electric car.Linh Do  13:26  He's just waiting for self driving cars that maybe that's what he meant, you know, if we give him like the smallest molecule of DNA.Dan Ilic  13:32  Yeah, he says I live in regional New South Wales and drive us to huge distances every year 60 or 70,000 kilometres, so I need something that can handle hard roads and distances. He drives a Ford Everest, which is a five cylinder car which pumps out 225 grammes of co2 equivalent per kilometre. That's a can of coke of co2. Every kilometre Angus is putting 70,000 cans of coke worth of co2 in the air every year. This what the Minister for emissions reductions should be doing is offsetting. He's just putting a gas plant physics 100 million dollars where there's no money to be found. Also, he did this on the same day, he kind of came out on the same day that Joe Biden was riding around in a brand new Ford f150 light being Ford's brand new electric ute, the biggest truck in America, the most popular car in America. Joe Biden launched it with Ford last week and just the optics at the same time, Angus guy No, I'm not gonna there's no way I'm gonna drive an electric car that said Joe Biden guy here is the most masculine electric car you could possibly get today.Linh Do  14:44  Here I am driving it and I don't know for any of our listeners who have been to the US obviously pre pandemic times, but they cause a way bigger than any of our cars. You know, like these are huge monsters if we can make one of those vehicles electric. Pretty sure I guess Taylor might be eating his words. Very saved from breakfast.Dan Ilic  15:01  That's it for the climate news. We've got two super great interviews for you today. First of all we've got Giordano from the juice media. If you don't know the juice media here is some of their work. Hello,Unknown Speaker  15:11  I'm from the government with an important message as we enter the third decade of the 21st century things are going fine overall, the Amazon is fine half of Africa is fine. So is the Arctic Indonesia angry even Greenland's on fucking fire? I mean, fine. Scientists have coined a new term for this stage of climate change were entering with but unlike the previous stage, which climate scientists called listen to us, or we might be fucked, where fact is happening and in your lifetime. This is thanks to us wasting decades, pis farting around at climate summits with non binding emission target while handing up subsidies to climate criminals attracting renewables, and generally not giving a shit that rising co2 levels are about to trigger what scientists call feedback loops. a feedback loop is the scientific term for when a species uses its own ignorance to screw itself and everything else around it so hard that its own planet tells it to get foe some people are already experiencing where facts such as these Pacific nations facing rising sea level who recently back to Australia to please stop burning coal to which Australia responded get fat,Dan Ilic  16:18  really funny stuff. always makes me laugh juice media stuff has so much cut through would you say Lynne?Linh Do  16:25  Yes. And every time I see it on, you know, like, scrolling through social media. I always think it's sort of real. And so I was like, No, no, no, no, no, no. There's some genius behind this. It is satire, because it's just so on point with whatever's topical. At that moment in time,Dan Ilic  16:39  Joe, Joe and juice media have long been champion climate conversations through the comedy they make on their channel. Another person who has been champion climate conversations is a legend called rod Quantock strain comedian been around forever. I did a panel with him in 2008. And I remember him saying something well, I'm throwing out all of my material and just focusing on climate because there's nothing else to talk about. And I thought, Oh, my God, that's incredible. That's, that's so interesting. And that's almost that's probably why I started a rational fear. So I should let you know that rods conversation is a little more depressing.Linh Do  17:18  So it's very sober about the reality and the facts. And you know, I guess it comes with working on something for well over a decade. But um, when he wants to cracking jokes, still funny. But yeah, this work is not easy. And I think we need to just give people at times the space to feel all their emotions.Dan Ilic  17:33  Exactly. So you can feel despair, which is an emotion with radcot.Unknown Speaker  17:38  You're listening to the greatest moral podcast about generationDan Ilic  17:44  jordanna. Welcome to the greatest model podcast of our generation. Awesome to be here. Thanks, Dan. Does that feel too weighty a weighty title on your shoulders to be part of the greatest moral podcast in my generation? It definitely yes. But I'll do my best to live up to date an absolute fan of your work for a decade. Ever since the early juice wrap news days. It's so it's so thrilling to kind of see you grow and blow up and ultimately become self sustaining. And I, you know, I don't know how you feel about this word, very successful. But it's a thrill to kind of sit down with you and talk through your work and talk through your process for what is essentially enlightening the world in a in a funny way. Oh, man, I appreciate that. That's very, that's very kind. Thanks. First of all, you are a historian. How does your background as historian inform your comedy? Do you think?Unknown Speaker  18:46  I mean, you know, I, whenever people ask me these kind of questions, I don't know how sort of beep to go. And, and sometimes I ask myself these questions as well. Or I think, you know, the simplest way of, of answering is that studying history really kind of like makes you think, what are some of the big picture frameworks that you have to apply because whenever you talk about history, it's really important to sort of put it in put things in context, you know, of the, of the of the of the year, the year, in the decade during the century, and then ultimately, humanity in this whole journey that we're on. And so that's studying history has really helped me to kind of like, juggle all of those perspectives to think about the really big timescales, and also the very small timescales, because that's where it really gets exciting when you can bring those two things together. Yeah. And then you go click, oh, my God, this is where we're at, oh, my God, I didn't know. And a lot comes from that feeling of, oh, wow, we're living in a really historic time. You know, when people say that, we've got a saying that I often invoke, history is happening. Meaning, you know, history isn't something that's just in the past. It's something we're living through right now. It's just that we don't see it. We just think our history is something in the past and right now is the present. But, you know, in a decade from now, people will look back and see this as as history and so, well, what are we going to do about that? What kind of history do we want to leave for people in the future, so I often often don't think of myself as a historian that looks at the past but a historian that looks at ourselves from the future,Dan Ilic  20:05  though that's, that's kind of that's exactly kind of what I was thinking about when I was thinking about your work. Your work is so detailed, and it's filled with minutiae. And I wonder, what will historians think about the work you've created? You know, 30 years time? Do you ever think about that? Do you feel like do you feel like you're, you're, you're almost like breadcrumbs for future historians to kind of understand this time better?Unknown Speaker  20:27  I don't know. I've never thought of it that way. But, you know, I think future historians will have so many fucking bread crumbs. You know, I just I really pity future historians because, you know, with the, with the arrival of the internet and social media, I mean, like, how do you even keep track of the archives of the future will be shit shows.Dan Ilic  20:48  Future historian coming across q anon and trying to understand why Q and S Yeah,Unknown Speaker  20:51  no, and then trying to go through H n forums. And yeah, yeah. It's Yeah,Dan Ilic  20:57  tell me jordanna what is shit fuckery.Unknown Speaker  21:02  Should fuckery is is a word that kind of, I don't know, materialised itself. I don't even remember when. Because I think I was just trying to search for a word that kind of tried to even get close to the level of corruption, ineptitude, arrogance, fucking betrayal of basic, you know, morality and human rights that this government upholds on a daily basis here in Australia. And that word just came to me, you know, as in, you know, sort of a vision. It was like, yeah, that kind of gets pretty close to it. And I don't think when I first used it in one of our honest government ads, I thought it was anything special, but people really kind of latched on to and went, Wow. Yes, that's what it is, you know. And so I was like, Okay, I'll keep using it. And now it's become like a something of a sort of something that people will associate with us quite a bit with the honest government ads thatDan Ilic  21:50  not only you I have seen it now sprinkled through the Zeitgeist. Yeah. Have you seen it leak out outside of the media world?Unknown Speaker  21:57  Yeah. Occasionally, I see a pop up that someone had a sign at the march for justice in Canberra. They added campy should fuckery in front of it, which I thought was very nice addition. kudos to them. But yeah, every now and then I see it pop up. Yeah. Yeah, some people wear wear the T shirt, they go through customs or arrive in Australia, we're in the department of shit fuckery Petia, which I think and then they post that on Twitter, which I think is quite brave. And you know, so every now and then I'd say coming up, which is nice. Yeah,Dan Ilic  22:23  I find this time we're in is really interesting, because we're at a pretty crucial time in history and human history in that. I think there's enormous humour about how we are not dealing with climate change. But it's incredibly sad at the same time. In Video, historic historian hat, aren't they? How do you think future generations will feel about the kind of delay we're having right now on climate action?Unknown Speaker  22:48  Yeah, I think it's gonna be brutal. Yeah, I think it's really, it's going to be, it's going to be horrible, the, you know, the, the way that the weight of his that history is going to put on our generation, collectively. And, you know, I know that, you know, some people say, yes, we're, you know, we're, we're, we're doing something and we're saying, and we'll speaking up and everything, but, but collectively, you know, the graters of the future are going to be they're all going to be greater than the future. They're all going to be stuff with us. And rightly so. I mean, that is one of the reasons that I think, you know, we talk about climate so much is, is that feeling of nausea? Really, that comes with Oh my God, is this really fucking happening? are we really doing this, like, This can't be happening, and I already feel angry. And so many people feel angry today. So I can only imagine how that will be amplified in the future. If we don't at this point, now, take a different path. Because Okay, you could say that 10 years ago, there was still you know, uncertainty, blah, blah, blah, all that sort of stuff. And, you know, we we gave the deniers so many opportunities to really sort of prove that the point that you know, there wasn't a need to act urgently. And now now now that's No, we've done it. We've wasted those decades. Okay. But now we're really have to fucking do it. And we're still not because mainly because of, of the government that we have. I mean, so many sectors of Australian society, the market industry, business people, entrepreneurs are just moving ahead. They're saying, fuck it, let's just do it. And the rest of the world is doing it as well. We're literally becoming a Lego just getting to the point where it's, it's not even funny anymore. It's actually pathetic. It'sDan Ilic  24:18  pathetic, and it's demoralising. And, you know, to hear these government delay tactics at the federal level so blatant, like coming out and saying stuff like, you know, the guy. Oh, yeah. Well, we now we know it's real. We know we would got to do something about it. But we're going to do it with technology. Oh, and the technology is not there yet. But it will be soon. So just give us another few decades of using fossil fuels.Unknown Speaker  24:42  Yeah. I mean, there's that element of it that that is just on its own is already fucking irritating. But then there's the other flip side of it is that there are so many opportunities that we could be embracing right now which could absolutely secure the future of of Australian manufacturing. jobs, which in turn then spills into society and our education, healthcare, or are these sort of things which could be powered by Australia becoming a renewable energy superpower, we everything is laid out in front of us. I've just been reading Ross ganas book superpower, which I really recommend, actually, I'd want to talk about it a bit more in some of the podcasts coming up. And it's just heartbreaking. The opportunity is that we're not taking which could be benefiting Australia so much, especially rural and country, Australia, which ironically, was where so many of the Liberal Party or liberal National Party seems to win a lot of seats. So it does, you know, it's it blows your mind anyway.Dan Ilic  25:37  Can you remember the first time you took notice of climate change or the lack of climate action as an issue that you're really passionate about? You want to communicate through through juice?Unknown Speaker  25:47  I'm all it was before juice. I think we started the juice me to channel 20,008. I think for me, it was when I was an undergrad uni student at GW a and I heard David Suzuki came and Kevin talk. He spoke at Winthrop Hall and he gave this amazing talk, which was quite a catalyst and a turning point. And then I had a lecturer at uni who was who introduced me to sort of on the sly, gave me books and said, I'll have you read. He was actually a South African. And he said, You've got some really great writers here. But you know, they're not very celebrated here. So he gave me a book by john Pilcher, he gave me a book hidden then a couple of others. He gave me the Gaia theory by James Lovelock. He was a bit of any sort of revolutionary kind of lecturer that kind of tried to radicalise he did you know, he really look at your say, exactly. It's all his faults. And those are kind of some of the texts that, you know, I read when I was quite young, probably 1617. And that kind of really imprinted on me that that issue being being of urgency? I don't know, I've just yeah, it's just been a constant theme, really. And then when we started juice in 2008, and retinues, in 2009, I think one of the first episodes we had was about climate. So it was really, very, pretty much the the thing that we were spoke about, from the very beginning, I think,Dan Ilic  26:56  for you, like, out of all the things you've done on climate, do you have one that stands out as the thing that you're like, this is the market climate statement that we've done so far?Unknown Speaker  27:06  Yeah, we did. We did a video about the fires towards the end of the deadly tragic bushfires that we had here in Australia. And I feel like that really kind of tapped into, from where we are at now with, with climate without government's policy, which is kind of this really interesting, and sort of also, you know, terrifying approach to Colombia, which has been for years denying and delaying and obfuscating, and then all of a sudden, with the bushfires, realising that that's not going to cut it anymore. And then skipping the part where we say, Okay, let's do something about it. Skipping that, and going straight to our Well, we're gonna have to adapt and build resilience. And this is just a reality. And we have to accept and it's like, what the fight what happened to the step in between that motherfuckers, you know, sorry, I get really upset about this.Dan Ilic  27:46  I know, this, this is the podcast to get out of that place.Unknown Speaker  27:50  And I feel like that that video really kind of captured that moment quite, quite accurately. And we had a great response from a lot of people, a lot of climate scientists and climate communicators also took notice. And we had a lot of sort of response from them. And one of them was Michael Mann, climate scientists from the US who was visiting at the time for a sabbatical. And he and he, when he came down to Melbourne, we met up and we, we hang hung out, and we really kind of connected and we spoke a lot about climate should fuckery and you know, and he was really keen to help out with he's kind of become like a de facto adviser, and he's come back on the podcast a couple of times. So that was a real kind of catalyst. But we've done so many, there are others as well. But that was kind of the one that I feel like I'm most proud of, let's say yeah,Dan Ilic  28:32  as are you gonna say he's become kind of a de facto father figure. Yeah, at the rational fear, we did a similar thing we made like a 12 minute explainer about the constant delay tactics and how the fossil fuels engaged in politics in Australia is basically responsible for getting rid of every single leader who ever wanted to do anything on climate actions. And there was I remember sitting on the beach at Bond I sitting with ash falling on me and just texting people saying we need to make a video we need to get this going. textingUnknown Speaker  29:08  you made a great video about this. I remember. I don't remember the name but I had a really goodDan Ilic  29:13  Yeah, Tim mentioned that Tim mentioned voice to narrator It was a car Schlegel wrote it and, and we just put it together and I was really good. Are you gonna do more collaborations of that? And so Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah. We'd love to sorry. I'm gonna take over because, you know, things like things like that cost money to make. Yes. Do you know anything about making online content? Right, yeah. So the podcast is kind of the focus of the book because it's cheap. So economic wise, it's a very loaded to the podcast and I can start paying the kids start paying people give them more money, because that was really good. And then some more of a few roughly listening, where should they go to support you? They know, podcasts. Now. Gee, do you have a theory about comedy and change? Do you have a Have an encompassing theory about you know, if you can make people laugh, do you might actually better change things? I don't know, IUnknown Speaker  30:06  just do it because it feels, I don't know, comes naturally, as this way of kind of expressing anger and frustration and comedy is a way of doing it that sort of doesn't leave us in a in a sort of a puddle of inaction and sort of the press of, yeah, just inaction paralysis. You know, I feel like laughter takes away fear and emboldens people. And it makes us feel like laughter is also kind of like, it's a really unifying element. Like when we laugh, it's like, we both get that thing, you know. And so it kind of creates a sense of a shared sense of identity of like, yes, this is shit. But we both know, we all know that we're in a situation. And that that can't not be positive for change. Because once you have that kind of group identity, once people understand what should fuckery is, and they bond around concepts or ideas or understandings, you would expect that to, to, to lead to change, but I mean, yeah, I've never theorised that. But I would, I would say, Yeah, I would agree with that. Yeah.Dan Ilic  31:05  Do you ever find yourself galvanising? Your audience around a particular issue and getting them to do things they do? Figure out dude, cuz you got such powerful audience and you've got such a clued in audience smart audience and you know, that it's huge. Your your footprint online, do you ever figure out, you know, do you have a drive them to actions?Unknown Speaker  31:26  We have we have occasionally? Yeah, I mean, you know, we depends on the topic, really, we did a we did a video, for example, about the anti encryption legislation that ended up being voted through by both Houses of Parliament. Surprise, surprise.Dan Ilic  31:39  They're listening to this podcast right now.Giordano Nanni  31:40  Yeah, great. Good job. There was a senate inquiry submission process where you could submit comments, and so we may easily thought, hey, let's, let's get people to submit comments to this senate inquiry, and then maybe they'll have taken notice of what people are saying. And I think we draw something like 17 or 18,000 submissions to that, you know, that means one example and and, you know, all of those submissions are completely fucking ignored. You know,Dan Ilic  32:06  so what you saying is democracy?Unknown Speaker  32:09  Yeah. You know, we do we try, and we know, we do push, you know, if there is anything that people can do, or you know, that we feel like there's something practical, we, we sort of encouraged that, you know, but I'm never under any illusion that you can change things with petition or, you know, Senate submission, they're all good things, and we need to do them. But there's no illusion that that's what you know, at the end of the day, we've got to vote, the shitty government out, that's, you know, an elected better one. So I feel like that's really where it counts is in the electoral. And at that point, you know, and all along the way, there are decisions that we can make, you know, to, to lead to that outcome. But that's, that's the, that's the real aim of the videos that we make a few your your videos are incredibly well thought out and very values driven.Dan Ilic  32:54  Do you ever have political parties tapping on the shoulder and go, Hey, Joanna, I want to do something about this issue that we would love you to do this to do to help us with this thing?Unknown Speaker  33:07  Not really. Let's see, a lot of people think that that's what happens. A lot of people sort of say, yeah, I've had a lot of people saying, Are you paid? You must be paid for by the greens, or sometimes by the Labour Party? For some reason never by the Liberal PartyDan Ilic  33:21  degrades can afford your production.Unknown Speaker  33:23  But no, I mean, no. I think everyone kind of, I feel like the parties that that would want us to do stuff feel like you know, that we already produced content that sort of supports the the policies and there's no need to waste money on itDan Ilic  33:39  yet. So Clive Palmer, if you please draw down a couple of million dollars to do some pro Galilee basin content. Have you ever heard from people in the corridors of power about how your work may inform the decisions that they're making?Unknown Speaker  33:53  No, no, not at all. I'd love to I'd love to be a fly on the wall when some MP or senators watching one of our videos, but no, I've haven't actually no. I mean, that's the dream, right? The dreamDan Ilic  34:03  is to have someone go factory that Jason's done a video of this. Yeah,Unknown Speaker  34:09  I'm pretty sure Susan Lee, environment minister said that when we did a video about the jabber on trees, and we kind of focused on her on her role. I'm very surprised that she hasn't seen that. So I'm just gonna have to imagine it. Somebody did an FOIA request for the juice media. They said, Can you send us all this? Because there was a whole discussion. I don't know if you remember a little while ago, the government sort of started sending us emails about the use of the government logo. Well, they call that a logo I was calling was called a Coronavirus. They just they like corporate motherfuckers it's our logo. And I'm like, What? Okay, anyway, so they call it a logo and they wrote us a letter saying, just come to our attention that you know, you're using our logo in your videos, and we concern that these could be mistaken for real Government Communications in which I nearly spit it out my coffee because I thought it was hilarious. That's, that that's all it takes to confuse real government policies with Data is just the logo. Is that Is that all? It is? Is that how close we are to sort of the reality here? What does it say about the policies? So there must have been a lot of communication going around that that issue before somebody launched the FBI. And it was quite interesting seeing the conversations that's as close as I've gotten somebody, somebody said, in response to the video, which caused this email to be sent out to us. They said something like, Oh, I, you know, this is this must be the latest wave on social media. And it was someone in the department of Prime Minister and Cabinet, I can't remember who, some staffer, and so we put that up on our banner. The next the next wave on social media, I suspect this is pretty much department a Prime Minister and Cabinet Australia government. IDan Ilic  35:42  mean, if you're doing a comedy festival show, that is a great slogan to put on your poster.Unknown Speaker  35:47  I put it up there. It's still there on our Twitter banner, it's Yeah, but if you don't know the backstory, you might not know what that is. That That explains why that's up there.Dan Ilic  35:55  Now, can you give me a bit of a rundown of your of your work process, like, from ideation to creation to publishing? Like, what does that look like? You know, in terms of your ways of working, how do you put the enormous of what appears to be an enormous amount of content out every year?Unknown Speaker  36:12  cocaine is usually the first. Just kidding. Yeah, like, I mean, you know, we don't put out as much content as a lot of other creators pretty much not nearly as much as you put out, or others, you know, in the same. So I've kind of the process that I've gone for is like, I mean, or I mean, like you guys are the chaser and the shovel, and friendly jordiz. You know, whatever the you know, there's, there's, there's very a lot of very prolific commentators on politics, I've kind of gone, we've got a young family, and I'm past the point where I can sort of just smash it out every week or every second week. So we've kind of gone for like, okay, cool, there's a lot of people commentating on stuff on the fly, like as it comes out. And I kind of see that even though we don't know each other personally. So first time we've met, I've met James from the shovel, once, you know, you know, we have a little bit of like, a camaraderie, we're part of a team that's kind of like working individually, sometimes, you know, we cross paths, but generally, we're kind of like working on a similar goal. And I've kind of thought, well, everyone's taken care of the here and now and like, you know, stuff comes out people onto it, you know, straightaway, I'm going to focus a little bit more on sort of broader picture, pick up some issues that get lost along the way, or that maybe aren't as time, you know, sensitive. So we put out a video every month, sometimes two, but usually one and a podcast, you know, so that's, that's the timeframe, the longer time frames, the work process is I spend most of that time just reading and researching and, and talking to people, you know, really experts in, in the fields, everyone discuss, just thinking about, you know, how to approach this topic in a way that's really going to cut through, once the video is written. That's the hardest part. And then that's when the sort of the fun part starts, you know, we will record it. Lucy is my partner does the voice for the for the video. So we get into the booth. That's always fun, because we've got to try and do it between nap, the junos naps, and, and Lucas play play dates and stuff. So that's, that's dance and other dance. And then we get our actors in Zarya and Ellen. And that's always a fun time filming. And then I edited it in a couple of days, maybe three, four days, sometimes with the help of a couple of VFX brands who helps out with VFX. And then we put it out. So that's that's the process really.Dan Ilic  38:19  So the production doesn't take up your living room for too long a time I get it, you know, you've kind of worked it out. So it doesn't, you know, take up your life.Unknown Speaker  38:28  That's right. Yeah, it takes up about a day or two of the month or you know, longer if we do a couple of videos. And then then the rest of the time this room where we were chatting and it becomes like a playground a rumpus room, you know? Yeah.Dan Ilic  38:42  Now, what do you think is the power of subverting a government? What do you think is the secret sauce there? Why do people why are people attracted to that?Unknown Speaker  38:53  I don't know. It's irreverent. It's it usurps the voice of this of this government. And I feel like you know, if this government is just has just done so much to erode public trust and confidence, and, and it's just always mincing words and beating around the bush and not really coming, coming in and being honest with people about what it's doing, you know, the rhetoric and the bullshit really is just, it's just a constant charade, really trying to conceal the reality of the policy. So I feel like it's the reason it appeals to people to impersonate this particular government probably all should government's, is that it's just cathartic. It's like a fuck Imagine if that's how this government spoke. Yes, yes, there are pieces of shit but at least they're honest about it. I feel like that would remove the most annoying part of the government this discover that we had at least then they're honest, you know, there's something there's something Qatar they can kind of therapeutic about that IDan Ilic  39:56  think what I'm hearing from you is a smart staffer would tap scope. On the shoulder and said, Actually, we should put out an honest ad that way juice media won't have anything to complain about.Unknown Speaker  40:06  It will put them out of business. Yeah. Thirdly, actually, I'm scripting in a video about the electric vehicle policy at the moment. And I've got a line in there. I'm not I'm not sure if I'll use it, but it's something along the lines of, you know, introducing our future fuel strategy. The acronym is ffs, and then the next slide is like, no, that's not a joke. That's part of our strategy and put satirists out of business faqeer the chaser and the shovel and Alice government and she hates, you know, I love the fact that even their acronyms are satirical as like ffs, you know, but yeah, no, they totally should definitely not, not do that. It's very effective. But you know, the I hate I hate this government and its policies, but that what they do is actually very effective that they're very consistent with their with their obfuscation.Dan Ilic  40:54  Now, honest government ads is a format you've been doing for some years. Now. Can you remember the first one you did? And you went? Aha, this is a great format. Yeah. And I'm now I'm going to rinse and repeat.Unknown Speaker  41:05  We used to do a series called rock news. And we finished that in 2015. And after that, I had this decision to you know, like, Well, what do I do? Do I go back to university? Or do I try and keep doing this YouTube thing? You know, we had no Patreon support at the time. So it was like, you know, do I want a job? Or do I want to be unemployed? That was the basic decision. And I chose the latter. And I'm really glad I did that. But the immediate challenge that I had was like, Well, what am I going to do now we've done rack news. That series was very successful, but it really relied on the collaboration with Hugo, who was the rapper. And so I didn't feel comfortable continuing that didn't feel like that was what was special about that collaboration was the two of us. So although Initially, I thought maybe we could continue, but in the end, I realised I needed to figure out something else. And I experiment with a couple of ideas. I did a few different things. WhyDan Ilic  41:52  did that fall apart? was it was it just hard work? And just a lot of work?Unknown Speaker  41:57  Yeah. I think, yeah, definitely. It was, I think we got ourselves into a situation where it became not pleasant to do it anymore. You know, I feel like you know, all projects have have all collaborations have that. That window, you know, in which they you have this amazing productivity and you know, things work and then and then they don't and I think for Hugo especially, he wants to do a lot of other stuff. He has got he's incredibly talented guy. And I mean, you should see him do live shows and freestyles is it's kind of really impressive. And he wanted to do a lot more of that. And he didn't have enough time because we got ourselves into this situation, which was we had a contract with RT Russia today to produce content. So we were on a on a on a schedule, and the Russians were quite, you know, strict about you know,Dan Ilic  42:47  if you miss a deadline with the Russians,Unknown Speaker  42:50  there was a guy who was always CCD now emails cool, called Vladimir. And we had a joke that that was proven that your CCD and all the emails,Dan Ilic  42:57  I forgot, I forgot you had a ship with Russia. SoUnknown Speaker  42:59  yeah, that was another fun thing that happened. Yeah. I mean, that's a whole I'm happy to talk about it. But that's a whole other thing. After after we finished that show, I you know, I was kind of like, what am I gonna do now and had a few different ideas that I tried out. And the third video that I made, was, was a video was a US government at Christmas time. Or at least, I can't remember who the minister was. But they, they pressured UNESCO to remove Australia from the sort of the areas that had been that are under threat from climate change, including the barrier reef, and we got UNESCO to just sort of erase it. And so it's kind of like a typical, like Band Aid solution, let's not fix the reef, so that it's not endangered list, especially UNESCO to not put them on the endangered list of places, you know, and it had an amazing response, like people really loved it. And there was no actor involved. It was just Lucy, we, I think we did in the day, you know, I wrote it. We had a couple of beers, we wrote it, we recorded it, I just pasted a few images together. And the format really resonated with people. And initially, I thought this was, this was, this would be one of the things that we'll do here at the juice media, but people loved it so much. And I realised pretty quickly that we could do so much. I mean, just the Australian government alone provides us so much more material that we can deal with. But then there's other shit governments, you know, I mean, we're constantly getting emails from people in Brazil, and in Canada, specifically, Alberta, in the UK, in you know, so many places, India, that people are saying, like, please, can you make something about, you know, the Ukraine or Hungary, I mean, the list goes on. And I realised and then we could do once about past issues. I mean, I would need three or four lifetimes to, to do all the videos that I would like, you should see my list of,Dan Ilic  44:33  you know, play list and get your data so my money guy just made his Patreon.Unknown Speaker  44:37  It's not even money, it's time you know, it's that that's the thing it's, that's the limit is, is more time. So it's more like actually more than money. It's like if you're a talented writer and researcher, you know, and you want to help write stuff, get in touch that would help moreDan Ilic  44:53  if you're if you're a brain ready to get exploited. Yeah, trail money. Well, I don't think that's out of the question. I'm a very collaborative person. And we've got a Discord server now and comedians who want to be part of a restaurant, chime in with jokes and help help help write the show and give up ideas. And you've got a very thriving conversation about shit fuckery that's happening around Australia. That's a real thrill. You know, I'd like to see all these folks in a virtual writers room. participate. And I don't think there's anything wrong with getting extra brains in because this stuff is hard to do. You know, it's very difficult to do and can be very draining. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah. When you started you were a young man. That's right. It's true. Yeah. Let's talk about it for a second. We've both worked for state broadcasters. I've worked for zero in the past. The broadcaster of Qatar and you've worked for it. We've worked for brutal regime. We've worked for broadcasters, yes. Yeah. soft power, they like to call it soft power of hard power. Yeah. How did you find that experience? And what did you do you have any feelings about it now?Unknown Speaker  46:04  Yeah, look, I mean, it. Yeah, it was a fascinating experience. It was a really good learning experience. It really forced us to really be organised. And you know, and you know, even though I kind of sort of talked us down a little bit earlier, I think we did a pretty good job actually, of rising to the challenge. It was pretty complicated show that we did rap news. IDan Ilic  46:22  don't know if any of your listeners remember it. Absolutely. Incredible. early days of juice media. incredible stories wrapped in the night, you know, the news wrapped? Yeah, but incredible guest performances from people like Julian Assange and yeah, other folks.Unknown Speaker  46:37  Yeah, we are Noam Chomsky and a few others. Yeah. I, it was a really interesting experience. And you know, we weren't, we didn't go into it, naively thinking, Oh, this is just wonderful. We were quite aware of the implications. And, in fact, we didn't sign up, we didn't agree to sign up with it straightaway, they approached us very early on, I think it was like 2010, after we did the very first videos about Wikileaks in 2010, which really helped a lot of people to understand what was happening, who what Wikileaks was, who Julian Assange was, in the very early days in 2010. And so they approached us then, and they were like, oh, would you like to do it? We'll you know, we'll get you to do a show. We'll give you a show on it. And we were like, Yeah, thanks. Like, you know, we really wanted to build our own independent name and brand and voice. And so we didn't want to be absorbed by this giant that which then would just, we would become an arty show. And then they would then maybe spit us out. And then we'd be like, well, that's gone. You know, we want it to be a separate thing. So we said, Yeah, maybe. And then 2011, they were like a new producer, would you know from it would be like, are you still keen? Are you interested in our maybe? And then eventually, in 2013, we said yes. And we then we negotiated for about a year, there was that most hardcore fucking negotiation that I had with, with these Russians about the terms of the agreement, and we were like, really, really strict that it had to work for us, because they were like, Oh, we want a video every they wanted like a, you know, a video every two videos a month, and we're like, You're insane. And we can't do that. And then we're like, okay, video every year. And we're like, we can do 10 videos, because we need time off as well. And then we need full editorial independence. Like, we don't want anyone telling us what we can and can't say the only thing that will censor is the swear words. And you know, we hadn't we had we even negotiated that we would be able to upload to our YouTube channel first, you know, so now let's enter them afterwards. That's a huge day. Yeah. So like, you know, we really kind of like, and we were quite ready to walk away from it. Like if they said they didn't want that they weren't okay with it. We were like, Oh, that's sorry, we're gonna leave it then. But they agreed to all these terms. And, and I have to say to the credit, like they're really respected all of those times, especially they editorial independence, I think everyone thinks that when you work for RT, or possibly AlJazeera, that you're like, you know, there's some person telling you what you can and can't say, or removing words. Actually, the funny thing is, I've had, I've had that happen with Western NGOs that have that I've worked with who've really kind of tried to bully us into what we could and couldn't say, and I've said to them, you know, I'm not going to name them. But I actually said to one of them, I was like, you know, this is fascinating. I've worked with it, you know, Russia's state television, and yeah, over two years, and we never had anyone telling us what you're telling me now over theDan Ilic  49:11  argue I've had more editorial, I had more editorial freedom at AlJazeera than I ever had at the ABC. Let's fixUnknown Speaker  49:20  Yeah, let's say something. Yeah. Then Okay, maybe it doesn't even say anything bad about the ABC. But it definitely blows away a lot of the stereotypes that we have about some of these, you know, they've got a call it a soft power. let's not kid ourselves. There's a reason that Artie was interested in. What we're doing is because we're putting out a lot of videos that were critical of us imperialism of US foreign policy, and also domestic policy that was the focus of rap news. So it definitely served the purpose. But it also helped us because what it did is it allowed us to quit our jobs. I mean, I was working part time at uni, and that contract was coming to an end and Hugo was teaching he was teaching he was an English teacher. And it allowed us to fulfil our dream which was to be full time creators, you know? gave us a. It gave us that freedom, you know,Dan Ilic  50:03  would you ever do a collab? Now the US government's change? Would you ever do a collab with US government? Say on the on the green New Deal or something likeUnknown Speaker  50:12  that? Or do you mean with the Biden government? No, no, definitely not. Yeah, I would. That would be the surest way to destroy all the goodwill and independence and the value of the brand that we've created. The I totally know. I mean, like, you know, sometimes if we're going to support what governments are saying, we did a video about the Coronavirus. Last year, just as the pandemic was kicking off, it was mid March. And there was so much confusion, I'm sure you remember, it was like, is it? You know, what, what do we do? Do we, you know, do we wear masks? We wear masks? You know, do we do we take it seriously, don't we? What do we wait, you know, we put out this video, which basically, you know, helped really governments to put out this man, in fact, we put up before the government was able to come up with its own coherent communication strategy. So sometimes we we help governments, you know, in that regard, but I'm notDan Ilic  50:58  many would argue that they still trying to come up with a coherent communication strategy. Absolutely.Unknown Speaker  51:01  Yeah, totally. But Sorry, I was just gonna say with with RT, you know, one of the little stories that I think maybe some people appreciate it, but so I think so many people just kind of went under the radar. When we signed up with it, we kind of really realised we'd never spoken about Russia, we've never really, you know, they've been mostly about Australian and US politics. And we were like, okay, now that we're working with RT, we have to talk about Russian politics. So we're very conscious that by entering into this agreement, we also had to turn the critical eye and satirical eye towards them. So we created the Russian character at a time there was a lot of persecution of LGBT people in Russia, probably still is, but at the time, it was a real issue in that there was a prominent, prominent in the media and persecution also of Greenpeace activists up in the Arctic. So those are the some of the issues. And then about two months after we signed this fuckin agreement, Putin invaded Crimea, and we're like, Fuck you, man. Like, seriously, like, now, we can't not talk about this, you know, and I think a lot of people who thought who think that by signing up with it, the juice media was like compromising itself, kind of have to look at that episode that we put out because it was, you know, we impersonated Putin. And we created this character, Russian character who was an RT reporter, and we totally ripped into Putin and RT and, and made and cetera, satirised. You know, Russia's peaceful, so called, in inverted commas, the invasion of Crimea. So yeah, that was, that was some of the stuff that we did to mitigate our concerns around working with this propaganda arm of Russian government was to actually Okay, we'll do this. But we're not we're gonna make Saturday and make fun of you as well. So I feel like it was that was our attempt to balance the two things. And obviously, youDan Ilic  52:43  feel safe being here in Melbourne. I live far away from from the heavies of Russia?Unknown Speaker  52:51  Absolutely, I would have been a different story and respect to people who you know, who do the job that we do in countries where, you know, we've seen these comments, it's like, fuck man is someone made that video here in Malaysia or in India? You'd be gone, you know. And that's, that's always worth remembering that the that the freedom that we have in this country to to do this is a wonderful thing.Dan Ilic  53:09  Yeah. I made a way the bloody Hawaii video on Manus Island, and I got I got deported deported from Australia. Good as good as it wasn't the other way around. Which is possible. In theory,Unknown Speaker  53:27  I guess. I mean, there are Australians locked up on Christmas Island as we spend Britain can strip your citizenship if you have a dual one.Dan Ilic  53:35  Yeah. Oh, are you excited about you know, Dutton sending out cease and desist letters and, and threatening people with defamation? Oh, well, I'm just disappointed that I haven't received from you. What's the best? What's the best postal address for that? Most people would have said, You know, I haven't sent one either. I've met someone who has sent them to people on Twitter who said remotely defamatory things about Peter Dutton on Twitter. Are you kidding me? I know. Yeah. What a thin skin. I remember the first time I made a kind of government ad like government ad parody would have been 2006. It was a where the bloody hell are you parody? Right. And I got a cease and desist from Gilbert and Tobin, who are tourism Australia's lawyers, saying that the music that I'd use was exactly the same. But it wasn't because I got my music commission to be a sound alike. And so they asked me to pull it down. Idiots. They asked me to pull it down off my website, and I said the only similarity between my music and your music is the word now, because it was now Nanana. So I said, I've done a do version, a whistle version and a crazy frog remix version. And I've republished that. So you know, it's, um,Unknown Speaker  54:47  and what happened in the end? I never heard from him again. But if I see you didn't cease and desist, no, I kept publishing, right.Dan Ilic  54:57  But that was the first time that I went on. There's real power in using the tools of propaganda. Yeah against the propagandists. Oh, totally. Yeah, no, absolutely. And they're scared. You know, they're scared enough to send you a letter. Yeah. As a 25 year old kid. That was super exciting to me. Yeah.Unknown Speaker  55:16  Yeah, totally. Yeah. It's also a reminder that we have really shit copyright laws here in Australia. We don't have a fair use. I mean, in theory, that there is a fair use, exclusion and the Copyright Act, but it's never been tested in court, in court. So I found that about this when we got letters from it wasn't from the government for this. It was from the the writers of the john Phantom song, the voice, right, which we got Julian Assange to parody. So we changed the lyrics. And we've got, you know, we didn't change the music, but we got it. We rerecorded it. So it wasn't the actual song. And we got a session session musician to, to sing. And I just thought, this is this is a parody. It's it's obviously modifying it, it's obviously, it feels the definition of parody. It should should workDan Ilic  56:01  under satire and parody. Yeah.Unknown Speaker  56:03  Like you would think so. But because of the shitty, untested, fair use clauses here, the publishers were able to sort of put pressure on us and say, Well, you know, we don't agree, we don't agree that that's Saturday, and then what the will the only response you can have is, I will see you in court. And, and, you know, I was like, ready to do it. And I was like, is anyone going to take this on? Because this would be a great. This would set a great precedent, you know, for testing the Fair Use clause in the Copyright Act. Absolutely. In a very public one.Dan Ilic  56:31  Yeah. Now, if that happened again today, would you go to court?Unknown Speaker  56:34  Yeah, I mean, I think so. I mean, somebody's got to fucking do it. And you know, as long as you've got a good as long as you've got good backing and you know, because you can't afford it yourself, you've got to have shorterDan Ilic  56:44  beer. Yeah, surely I feel like this is a Kickstarter campaign ready to go go fundraising campaign ready to go to test this thing called?Unknown Speaker  56:51  No, totally. And it was high profile because it had Julian Assange was impersonating john Farnham. We even got john Farnham he even like said, Yeah, I'm cool with that. It was it was the publishers, you know, they're the gatekeepers that kind of didn't didn't quite see the humour of it kind of thing. So I remember that clip. DidDan Ilic  57:07  you end up seeing the system that when did you end up taking that one down?Unknown Speaker  57:10  No, we didn't. But we had to pay them. We had to give them the all the revenue from the video. So we kind of got hijacked by them, you know, and I thought, well, this is sucks, but it meant the video stayed up. You know, that's a Would you say that's a low price to pay. Or I think it's a ship price. Like I shouldn't pay anything for it. But we didn't have anyone. You know, I reached out to people and no one was really keen to take it on. So I was like, what are we gonna do? Yeah, I'm not gonna spend the next five years of my life trying to scramble up pennies to fight a copyrightDan Ilic  57:40  thing. Giordano? Thank you so much for the work you do. Thank you so much for the smarts and the funnies over, over a decade's worth of work through grettir a great privilege to have you on the greatest moral podcast of our generation and to do it inside the inner sanctum of where the magic happens inside the bunker in the volcano. Yeah, we live undisclosed location in a Melbourne Yeah.Unknown Speaker  58:05  Yeah, no, look, it's been a real pleasure. Thanks for thanks for taking the time. It's, it's like I said, we're part of like, a bit of a network a bit of a family. Yeah, exactly. SoDan Ilic  58:14  a comedy come out. Yeah,Unknown Speaker  58:15  sounds really nice. And I appreciate it. And I can't believe that it's been 10 years. It's, yeah, I always started doing this as a as something fun and something that might be you know, something to get a bit of a release and was been a bit of a class clown. So I thought it was like, you know, something to sort of keep that, that alive. And it's, it's a privilege to be able to do it. You know, and thanks to you also, for the work that you do with irrational fear. You know, really, I think we're all helping in some small way to unfuck things. SoDan Ilic  58:45  that's beautiful. And that's, that's now my personal quote. JOHN Fox thinks juice media. Thanks, Jay. Well, that was your dad. What do you think of Joe Dad? ILinh Do  58:54  love it. I love when someone's like, awesome on video. And then like also in podcast, as well. So like, I understand how these juice media videos get made.Dan Ilic  59:03  Yeah. Giordano, I had the privilege of you know, we recorded that inside your danos house in his studio, where he records every single one of those fakeLinh Do  59:13  magic happen. Yeah,Dan Ilic  59:14  yeah. And he's got this. He's got this green screen, he rolls out for it. And there's cards, there's like, kids have got like crayon drawings all over the walls. It's just amazing. So it's a very homemade scrappy operation. And he but he has so much rich. Love it. Next up is rod contact. He's an absolute legend. But like we said, it's a little depressing. So I understand if you switch off, Rod, first of all, thanks very much for joining us, the greatest model podcast of our generation. To invite me not just anyone gets to come on this is this is a podcast where we talk to climate leaders from around the world, just for you know, half an hour or so about, you know, leading people in climate and I can't think of anyone better to talk to than right now during comedy festival season then yourself. I remember Doing a panel with you about satire and politics at the Paramount of Riverside theatre sometime I know probably 2008 2009, with which the great drum pinda organised. And I remember you saying one line that really stuck with me ever since. And it was that you have changed the entire way you do comedy, in that it's all about climate change, because there's nothing else to do jokes about. And I thought that would be the great place to start. because ever since you said that line, I've been feeling exceedingly guilty about the kind of jokes I'm telling, and have progressively made them mostly about climate change. You'reUnknown Speaker  1:00:36  a good man, Dan, you're a good man. Talk me through that journey. In 2007, I got what used to be called the Keating, a Australia council fellowship, which I had a choice of doing over one year or two years part time, and I chose to two years. And the idea of that programme was that in 2008, I was going to be 60 years old. So I thought what I wanted to do was a project that looked at the world. From the day I was born until 2008. It wasn't autobiographical in any way, it was just to look at how the worlds evolved over that time. And I'm a very literal person. So I did it chronologically. And around, I got to 1973 I think it was the great oil shock. And I realised then that we were extraordinarily vulnerable to problems with oil, particularly running out of it. But I also started to see references to climate change. So I got really interested in that. And I have an extraordinary admiration for science, my hobbies, generally reading about science or mathematics, and neither of which I can do that I can read about them. And as I read about it, and I just read about it, and I just read about it, I just saw that it was an extraordinarily overwhelming problem and existential threat, which is now you know, in a within a year or so I worked out that we're heading for those six major extinction. And in 2008, I really thought well, what you got to do is tell people that the climate is changing, and it's a really big problem. So it wasn'tDan Ilic  1:02:35  an eight that was that seems as as not not so long ago. That seems like a time before this kind of reach desired. Guys, you were very much ahead of your time. And I think for talking about this, you know, within the general population, you said your impressionUnknown Speaker  1:02:50  of that. And it remains what it was then it's just another item in the news. Okay, it gets it gets overwhelmed by Prince Harry going back to England, gets overwhelmed by buddy Franklin's groyne and flubs here. And very few. Very few commercial interests, in their news coverage have mentioned climate change as a factor in weather disasters,Dan Ilic  1:03:20  98% of Australia's foreigner might have gone extinct, but there was a footballer that passed in a dog's mouth. So it's actually really focus on that.Unknown Speaker  1:03:29  I've stopped blaming anybody or mad I blame the people who know when deliberately obfuscate. But the other side of it is that it's not just climate change, it's a systemic problem. It's the way we live, and it's the way we consume. And it's the way that the propaganda of capitalism keeps lulling us into thinking that infinite growth is possible on a finite planet. And so there's no I've given up, we're gonna we're gonna have a mass extinction. It's going to become unlivable in parts of Australia in the very near future, because nobody's doing anything, even the countries like Germany or, or and I think of another one that might be doing something and not doing enough. And because really, what you have to do as a policymaker, in dealing with climate change is you've got to say to people, you've got to have less. And politics is really based on telling people they can have more. And the first person that says you've got to give up your V eight Holden for a car that just go and doesn't go. Those people are not happy with the idea of transitioning to a low carbon economy. And we now probably have to reduce our economic output by more than 10% a year to reach any sort of feasible goal by 2030. And that's just not going to happen. So I'll look into why I still do stuff about climate change. Nobody wants to hear it. So I don't get many bookings.Dan Ilic  1:05:09  Well, that was my that was my question like, how did you? How did you feel when you made this kind of commitment to do this back in, you know, oh, eight? How did you feel about the rest of your comedy career?Unknown Speaker  1:05:23  Well, look, I've always done stuff that's been, as Andrew bolt labels me, I've always been a far left comedian. Most people aren't interested in politics, people don't know enough about politics for you to make really sophisticated jokes about it either. I remember I was doing a show many years ago about, well, just about politics in general. But a woman came up to me after the show, and she said, I love your shows, because it means I don't have to read the newspapers for a year. And that's what I do. I mean, it's probably what you do you read things that the general public don't read, you follow stories, and issues in a way that people who go to work nine to five, and then find the cheapest cocktails in central Sydney, don't have time to do. So that's what I did. And because of, you know, personal issue for my family's health, I don't get to get out much anyway. So I just tracked myself down this horrible rabbit hole, which I'd never really wish I'd never gone down. And at the beginning, back in 2007 2008, when I started introducing climate change, and the Limits to Growth into what I was doing, I really did think it was just a matter of telling people. And I chose, I'm not a writer I've made I never write a show. So it's difficult for me to paint a 10,000 word essay about climate change, although I've tried,Dan Ilic  1:06:51  I don't know about that, right. I've been to plenty of your shows. And I can see the amount of writing you do during the show.Rod Quantock  1:06:59  my hard drive, I got a terabyte of stuff on climate change everything from a wonderful programme that David Attenborough did in 2006, on climate change, telling us exactly what I've been telling you now, never shown in Australia, and nobody paid any attention in the countries where it was shown. And then I saw all these scientists who are writing popular articles in magazines and newspapers. And I thought, well, that territory is pretty much covered. And it doesn't seem to make any difference. And I, one of the things I thought at the time is you can't, you can't change people's minds in five minutes. And you can't even change their minds in an hour. If you really, really need to get them to commit to understanding what you're talking about. And very few people do that. I look, I know. Like, I've made a few climate change friends over the years who share my despair. But we've stopped talking about it to each other. So it's got to that level, I mean, I still need to make a living. And if I'm going to go and talk to people, I'll talk about climate change and peak oil. And you know, the fact that 96% of all animals on the planet now today are either humans or the animals they ate. It said, we have so overshot the limits of the planet. And there's just no way back. So, look, it's really distressing. I had a time there about six or seven years ago, when I thought, Well, look, this is the problem. All the people I talked to and you know, you don't buy tickets to a show that you're tech What are now about so that people who can, you know, down the path. But what I saw was a lot of great, good, wonderful people who were basically giving all their spare time, and a lot of their personal wealth to trying to transition to a carbon neutral economy. And I knew it wasn't going to happen. And I knew they were wasting their time. So I tried to redirect their energies in if you like, not into changing the global economy, not into changing the Australian economy, not even changing the Victorian economy. But to find ways to live sustainably within small groups, which is that's the future that's what's going to happen. And if you can't live sustainably within small group, if you remain dependent on the system that's crumbling, you going to die is just going to die and the next pandemic. I had a job at Melbourne University for two years back in 16 and 17, I think, as a research fellow, and I did a lot of following, and I did a lot of researching. And I sort of got to the point where I didn't want to know wedding more. I knew too much But I did produce, it's not finished ever, I've never get finished because I'm not a writer. But I did produce a long form document, which included predictions for the period 2018 to 2030. And one of the things I predicted in that back in 2017 was a global pandemic, viral pandemic in 2023. Now, why, well, if you do the reading, you don't have to be, I'm not a genius. I'm just somebody who reads a lot and has, particularly my admiration for the scientific method is overwhelming. But it's like everything that humans do, and has a has a dark side with that prediction.Dan Ilic  1:10:47  What What were the steps that led you to that prediction? What were the things that you concluded that, you know, 2023, roughly, would be when a global pandemic would have?Unknown Speaker  1:10:56  Well, this was, I can't remember when SARS was. But there had been a number of diseases which had passed rapidly the mainly because of aeroplane travel that had passed rapidly into a global environment. And so I, you know, I read about that, as one of the problems we faced and the literature I read just said that this is going to happen, it's going to happen very quickly. And there will come a strain, which is COVID. And there'll be worse than COVID to come. Because viruses are very clever. So it just, I apologise for being three years out. But for anybody who who did the work that I did that perceived logical conclusion of where we were heading in terms of these things. And then other things like, you know, they bushfires of last year, I sort of left that a bit open in terms of when it would happen, but I knew that was going to happen within a few years as well, because that's, you know, the great thing about science is that you stand on this on the shoulders of giants. And each little increment that you make, to their understanding can then be you can project in ways that you can't project with the financial market for in Germany can take a gamble on saving at Amazon stock to buy. But in terms of climate change, it's a very simple equation, carbon dioxide in the atmosphere causes the temperature to rise, and the more you put in, the higher the temperature will go, which changes the whole weather patterns of the globe. And it also, much more slowly changes the patterns of oceans. So do you might remember the group called 350 dot org? Did you ever getDan Ilic  1:12:54  to see a dog started by Bill McKenna?Unknown Speaker  1:12:57  That's right. And it was 350 was the maximum amount of co2 in the atmosphere before we hit a tipping point?Dan Ilic  1:13:07  350 parts per million? Yeah.Unknown Speaker  1:13:09  Now, it turns out that that was only a sort of nice round number to call something, you know, if you wanted to run an organisation, I mean, you know, 312 point five.org just doesn't matter. So it was an approximation. And they were wrong to think 350 parts per million wasn't a problem. But they had to start somewhere. And now I didn't look I've stopped looking, but we're probably close to 420 parts per million at the moment of historic or certainly in terms of human evolution, a historic baseline of around 280 parts per million. So we're so far over the scale. And you can see, you know, with the floods that you have in Sydney, and people in Queensland have experienced it in the cyclone on the other side. And now they're bushfire alerts in South Australia today. It's just gone crazy. The weather's just gone crazy. And if you live near the coast, don't. I mean, that's all I can say. But you know, those things of rising sea level, which come with thermal expansion of the oceans and melting of ice caps, and so on. Those now we're pushing salt water up into rivers that never had salt in them before. And they're pushing salt into arable land that didn't have salt on it before. And, you know, it's no mystery, you know, no accident that the Romans when they conquered somebody salted the land, to make sure that no other people could use that land to build an opposition to the Roman Empire. So it's everything. It's just everything. So, you know, I like I have days where I, I think I shouldn't talk to people about this. Because what's the point of fatal knowing? Is it better to just eat, drink and be married? But it's something that, I think certainly, I remember an article by Andrew bolt, I don't really have any more press, he gives me an ulcer. But he was talking about Tim Flannery talking about sea level rise of a metre by 2100. And the line he had in it was trading 100, long after we'll be dead. Was that lack of any empathy for generations yet to come? And you saw it? Again, I did read a bit of Bob during a pandemic, and you would have saved ended America, people saying, Well, the only people who die are old people. And Andrew bolt actually had a statistic that said, the average length of stay of an elderly person in a care home is nine months. So really, what's nine months with less on your life, when you write your nine terrible, so let's keep the economy going. And these are the people have to pay the price for the younger people. You know, if you stand in the way of a man and these profits, he'll crush you. And that's what's happened with the climate debate.Dan Ilic  1:16:11  This is a really strange kind of attitude to have. It's only really realised that conservatives, the only thing they're conserving is their money. But that's the only thing.Unknown Speaker  1:16:24  Very strange word to use for them. But say these are the people who are buying bunkers and fortresses in New Zealand. These are people who think they can buy their way out of any problem.Dan Ilic  1:16:34  This kind of does this speak to your your idea of living within small groups, as opposed to on your own or in the big systems earlier?Unknown Speaker  1:16:44  My there are people who literally do live on their own. And I'm sure there's, you know, 10s of 1000s of them around the world who have chosen that path. And they've been I did look at the sort of utopian sort of 6070 ideas of communes, but they never lost because people are people. And that, that's the overarching problem. The if, if I die, or when I go, I shouldn't say if we haven't died, I want to have put in the Oxford Dictionary of quotes. Rod Quantock said, the problem with people is they're only human. And that's the problem is people you know, we were malleable, where we've got why oregano crackles and breaks. And, you know, we just started there. There's no other species on the planet that has such a diversity of mood, temperament, and, and lust and greed and the seven deadly sins. You just never see a greedy lion. You see a lion, they've had enough to eat and they go to sleep. So we are the problem. And it's been a battle. It's a philosophical battle that goes back to the very beginnings of humans, the battle to understand where we sit in all of this, and what our obligations are to each other and to the surrounds. And the one book I always recommend to people is a book by a guy named Daniel Quinn, who wrote a book called ish my L. and ish, my L. My buddy had too much that, that Ishmael is ends up being a sort of psycho Socratic Socratic dialogue between a captive gorilla and writer who's sort of wondering why the world's fact and should he try and fix it or button he do. And it's a dialogue about humans place in nature. And Quinn draws a line between two ways of living with the advent of agriculture. Basically, prior to that people did live in small groups, they didn't fight much because everybody knew everybody else in the working group had a way of dealing with people that like Aboriginal people laughed at, in their sort of traditional way of living. They'd laugh at people who did things I disagreed with the humiliation with laughter, replacement head ways of dealing with it, but what agriculture did, first of all, it formalised the ownership of land and prior to that nobody owned anything, they shared it with everything else. And then it developed systems to protect their ownership. Because an acre of land given over to crops can support a lot more people than 10 square miles of the equivalent amount of crops. Population started to aggregate and accumulate and grow. And then of course, you needed hierarchies because there were people in that community that you never saw that could come around and kill you tomorrow. So there were systems of law and systems and politics and higher Rocky and, and of course religion came into it. So there just was that time when we went from being part of nature to trying to control nature. And that's what we've done ever since. You know, I live next door to people will ask growing up. He used to he used to back in the lawn. Like as I go out, and rather than rake the leaves, I'd actually vacuum them up. And I made a blow up. Yeah. air conditioning is another way of how we've tried to control nature. I mean, everything we do is to keep nature at bay. It's just it's a place that frightens and terrifies us. And but it's also a place to exploit. And we've done that, you know, to the ultimate peril of the planet. It's really sad. And look, I at different times, I tried to float above at all and try to be that wise fool that looks down on you all it goes, whoa, whoa, whoa, look at you silly little Lance. But your cat, you're in it, you're part of it. And so as I said, I don't put any much more time into studying these things. Because I'm only learning what I already know. I'm not being arrogant with this. But I think the one thing I bring to what I do always is some sort of intellectual honesty, I suppose. And I've always tried. Yeah, there came a time in my comedy career not very, not done. Not really, since the 60s, have I done comedy that autobiographical. I'm not interested in my relationships as a public event. I've not interested in my family. As a public event. I'm not interested in lots of things as a public event. But I'm interested in public events as something to talk about. And I've finally got to the point where I realised that comedy is a tool.Unknown Speaker  1:22:06  And that it is a privilege to be able to get up in front of now six people but what used to be five or 600 people and talk to them using comedy as as sort of sugarcoating about things that are really important.Dan Ilic  1:22:23  When you were doing climate comedy. What was what made you feel the best, like when you were doing the comedy? What what kind of gave you a sense of either progress or change or achievement. Can you remember a moment?Unknown Speaker  1:22:39  Not a moment I as I said, I talked to the converted. So in one way, it was a safe space for me to do this up. But I used to do corporates, I used to do corporate stuff before they woke up to me. And I did of all things I did a conference for plumbing suppliers. Right? So I talked to them about water and climate change. I talked to them about urban fabric and climate change. I talked to them about plastics and climate change. I talked to them about it. And like I think I'm a reasonably good comedian. And I did make them laugh. But I did make him think and a few of them did come up to me afterwards and talk to me about it, and are great. So, you know, it would have floated out of their mind by now I'd imagine. But in that moment, they did get the feeling that you've done something positive and good.Dan Ilic  1:23:36  Did you ever did you ever think when you started doing climate comedy that you could make a difference?Unknown Speaker  1:23:41  Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I, I my first thought with it all is as I said, you can't change people's mind in five minutes. You can't change people's minds if I told that the the extraordinary flooding that you've had up there in the last few weeks is contributed to by a large degree. And I would think within a week or two scientists will tell us exactly what proportion of that rain was generated by climate change. Just doesn't add up for people until it even if it hits your own door. I mean, I've seen people in America standing in the rubble of you know, Katrina or hurricane Harvey or those things saying I don't believe in climate change. And they're the same sort of people who say I don't believe in the Coronavirus. It's just too difficult. So, so I thought the only way to do it is in some sort of long form way and making it personal. realise there's nothing like a live performance or television never there particularly in terms of comedy never carries that extraordinary feeling that an audience and you as a performer get from being in the same room. But yeah, all I do now, fortunately, is I scared they Okay, I used to get bookings in high schools. And I did do a primary school, which was great fun, but I did a high school be 10 or 12 years ago now. And my mother contacted me afterwards. And she said, we have Dare you tell my son, we're all going to die. And I thought at one level, well, somebody's got to tell him, but at the other level, What right have I got? But I've tried to hide people. Well, it's a it's a,Dan Ilic  1:25:32  is it? Is it people like this that discourage you from doing it? Or is it? Is it something else?Unknown Speaker  1:25:38  No, like, what do you what discourages me is that even if the whole world turned around today, it's over. Just, it doesn't matter how much you cut carbon emissions with 400 and say, 20 parts per million today, and it goes up, you know, it seems insignificant, but it goes up two or three parts per million every year. And it just rockets along, you know, and, and, but there's a lag, there's a lag between the molecule of carbon dioxide entering the atmosphere, and in its capacity to fully express the energy it's catching. So that's quite a lag, it's, and getting carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere is short of some technological miracle, which I can assure you will never appear, it's going to take 1000s of years to get the climate back to what it was, and then many, many 1000s of years for life to evolve in that new stable climate. And by then there's probably going to be another Ice Age. So you know, we had one shot at what's called the Holocene, the Goldilocks era of life on this planet to only geological period and four and a half billion years that has said, a stable climate at this global average temperature of 13.7 degrees Celsius in the history of the planet. And it just turns out that it's ideal for humans, we are the size we are, we are the shape we are, our metabolism works the way it does, because of this climate that we have. And the the way we ate the way we lived, everything is based on that underlying stable temperature. And you know, each degree it goes up Mira, you said something earlier about how many species have gone extinct? It's, you know, it's 100 a day or whatever. People don't know, because we still don't know everything that there is in nature. And a lot of it, we'll never know, because it's already gone. And we didn't notice it was there in the first place. So So I've had this sort of moral ethical dilemma as to what right do I actually have to tell people that this is going to happen, and there's nothing you can do about it. And I've tried tried really, really hard to find what you can do about it. And I came down to small groups of people living away from other groups of people, particularly people with guns, and existing sustainably.Dan Ilic  1:28:25  13 years ago, Rod, you inspired me to do more comedy about climate change. Sorry, Dan. Now, and now I'm inspired to go join a commune. So thank you.Unknown Speaker  1:28:36  No, that's a pleasure. But look, clearly there are things that maybe keep kept talking about. But do you think your pessimism stems from you know, whatDan Ilic  1:28:46  you've learned plus where you are in your life? No, no, no, because I because I feel like I feel like without that said, A disrespectful, I've got a few more. I've got a few I've got a bit more of a longer runway ahead of me that you do. So I have to remain hopeful.Unknown Speaker  1:29:00  Yeah, no, no, I understand that. It's not, I'm not pessimistic in the sense that you mean it and not being in any way superior to anybody else. When I say this. I'm just being realistic. And my one regret is I have a credible curiosity. My one regret is I won't be around to see what happens. On my land level. I don't want to be that at the other level. And I don't know whether it's an I told you so attitude for quite sure. But, you know, what we're looking at is in geological terms, were looking at something never happened before that one species has managed to change the entire nature of the planet. In a very short space of time. I mean, literally, but 1750 the beginning of the Industrial Age and the burning of coal From that time on, we have managed to destroy most of what's valuable. You know, I personally feel sorry for as David Attenborough because, you know, how could you do a show about nature when there's no nature left, but are made and you can see and him something that what I have is that hope, or hate the word Hope you're hoping for something stupid. But anyway, that hope that, you know, something, you say, may trigger a switch that that makes changes. But yeah, you know, so I've put, I'll put my life and soul into this for the last more than 15 years, I suppose now, not disappointed because I didn't have a lot of faith in humanity to begin with. And that's, I suppose the problem and that came out of part of that research I did for the Australia council fellowship. I was born in 1948 1948 was a year that Israel became a nation at the expense of the teleste Indians. That is still a Festering Wound 73 years later, 72 years later, or whatever it is, 73 years later, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights was declared that year, that's my not a jot of difference. Velcro was invented in 1948. And that has revolutionised the shoe industry. But there was that period, just immediately after the Second World War was in a way that most devastated but most optimistic generation, my mother lost her husband in the war and married my father, after the war. That was when things like welfare came in, in England nationalisation of industries, a genuine attempt to reward the ordinary people who'd suffered through that war, with a share of the good life that was coming, you know, and the average manager of business made seven times more than the average worker in that same business today, they make I think, it's more than 70 times on average do earns real wages haven't gone up for 3040 years or something. And yet the wealth of the wealthy is so concentrated that now I think three people now own half of the wealth of the world. And that's not what my parents invested their lives in achieving. And the 60s was that their children rebelled against consumerism, and they rebelled against, obviously, the Vietnam War. But they had ideals which have been crushed out of favour now they've, and it's been done at an industrial scale, though, the use of propaganda, marketing, PR, psychology, you know, there's not a toy in the world today that isn't designed by psychologists, you know, everything is is aimed at your behaviour, everything you think and do is harvested in some way, by somebody who could then just press particular buttons in new that you will respond to. And I think last time I read the lady need eight data points to work out your sex, your race, your income, level, your age, and God knows what else. And you know, you know, I'm you know, I'd like everybody else. If you don't turn up, you turn off your pop up blocker, you suddenly start to get things that seem very interesting to you, because they deliberately they're because they're interesting to you. We recommend this people who'd like this also like that, andDan Ilic  1:33:54  yeah, there was a there was a case of that story in the US where a local target sent a teenage girl, a whole catalogue on baby stuff. And her parents found out and because the target knew that she was pregnant before she did.Unknown Speaker  1:34:12  Oh, yeah, okay. Yeah, so how do you know when, when the traditional media is so corrupted, when politicians are corrupted, when the internet only takes you where they know you're opposed to where you want to go? And they everybody's a prisoner now, they know too much about us. And, you know, they're Freud. I blame Freud at all Freud felt upset enough.Dan Ilic  1:34:50  Row rod, thank you so much. I really appreciate the healthy dose of realism that you've given us. The greatest moral podcast of our generation, gender, Have a more positive forum generally a more hopeful podcast, but not this one. You know, you've restored the balance show today. Let me ask you as someone who I look up to, and it's been a mentor of mine, and what do you think I should do with my comedy skill set? Well, with what I have to offer, do you think I should even bother continuing? Or is there something else I should be doing? Well,Unknown Speaker  1:35:26  look, I guess it comes down to the fact that you'd need to, you need to think you're doing something. And so I mean, I, you know, without getting to mutually backslash B, I really admired you because of the path that you've taken with your comedy. So lucky. I haven't given up in the sense that I don't continue to try and talk to people and make people see what's going on. But as I said, you know, you can now wherever you live, we go to the Bureau of Meteorology, or the CSI row, and I'll tell you how much rainfall you're going to get in 20 years time. I'll tell you how, how much the average temperature where you live, will go up in 20 years time. It'll tell you, I used to think Tasmania was the place to go. But Tasmania is future isn't great. So I, I recommended What was the name of it. So southernmost town on the southern island of New Zealand, but I told too many people about real estate prices have gone up. So I want to go there. Look, there are places but where you are isn't the place. You know, if you're in a high rise building that depends on air conditioning, and mechanical ventilation, and a lift, you're not going to stay there, you can't live there. You can't expect, you know, the pizza delivery boy to climb 18 flights of stairs to give me a paycheck because he can't be bothered going out to buy the ingredients, or everything, just everything will be different to what it is today. And, you know, to get people to understand that is, you know, it's an important first step. And that's why I did the thing, the Tim jam, I really tried to make it personal. And that's why, you know, I'm gonna tell you what you should do or how to do it. But it's about making it personal. It's about taking it away from you know, polar bears will become extinct the ice capsule now, it's not personal to people. Everybody's got a DVD of David Attenborough standing next to a polar bear. And that's all they'll ever know about polar bears. And I'll always have the DVD if they if they ever want to see a polar bear. I forget who said it, but like I think it was it was a science, climate scientists or science communicator or activists who said people are gonna start really caring when the footpath start melting. Yes. Right inDan Ilic  1:37:55  the town you're thinking of I think that's Invercargill. Yeah. McCargo it's, it's got the best name in New Zealand Invercargill. Yes.Unknown Speaker  1:38:04  Lovely and it's a little town and very, very remote. I keep telling people in small country towns if they've got an ANZAC Memorial with a cannon in it, clean it up and pointed back down the road towards Melbourne because when people start fleeing is a last resort anyway. And ifDan Ilic  1:38:21  we saw that we we saw that during the pandemic is a pandemic hit the cities Iran hit the countryside. Yep,Unknown Speaker  1:38:28  absolutely. And toilet paper that make your own toilet. Oh, yeah, there's an idea. I've got to never worked out a way of monetizing my concerns but but maybeDan Ilic  1:38:43  you could do a masterclass on how to make toilet paper. So that onlineUnknown Speaker  1:38:47  Yeah, please don't use poison ivy if you get stuck.Dan Ilic  1:38:52  Rod, thank you so much for joining us on the greatest moral podcast of our generation. It's always it's always even though you may you may think you're being a realist for me, it was absolute joy. Good idea. Bless you then bye. And that's it for the greatest moral podcast of our generation. big thank you to the Bertha Foundation, road mics, all of our Patreon supporters and also please come along to our bigger shows and our New Castle show and later on our Melbourne and Sydney shows. June five in Newcastle June 13 and bigger June 24 in Sydney and July 10 and 11 in Melbourne. Of course inshallah, I mean, who knows what Melbourne's gonna be like,Linh Do  1:39:34  we don't want to be in town state potentially either. It's a time so. Yeah.Dan Ilic  1:39:41  I mean, this is we are recording this on Thursday, Thursday morning. Do we know how long the press conference is gonna be? Is it going to be locked down? What's your bed?Linh Do  1:39:50  Having come from like, what was it 112 days of lockdown last year, five days is nothing. So that's what it takes. Five days versus 100.Dan Ilic  1:39:58  Thanks for listening. Thanks. subscribing. Let us know how you feel about this podcast on iTunes with a five star review or four star, you know, whatever. Thanks a lot, fiver A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🎟️ GET A TICKET TO OUR NEWCASTLE SHOW — JUNE 5TH👕 BUY OUR MERCH HEREKurri Kurri Gas, Empathy Gap at the NDIS, Mice are coming to Sydney, and Kirsty O'Connell is pumped about this weekend's by-election in the Upper Hunter.Amy Remeikis.Andy Saunders.  Kirsty O'Connell.Dan Ilicand Lewis Hobba.A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🎟️ GET A TICKET TO OUR NEWCASTLE SHOW — JUNE 5TH🎟️ GET A TICKET TO OUR SYDNEY SATIRE SHOW AT JNI — JUNE 24TH 👕 BUY OUR MERCH HEREWelcome to our Budget Reply special of A Rational Fear, it's all the numbers you wanted to know, and many of the numbers you didn't.Joining us for this weeks podcast is.Dylan Behan from the Newsfighters podcast.Gabbi Bolt from The Chaser and TikTok (Yeah The Girls Show)Lewis Hobba and Dan Ilic (me) as almost always.We also ask Brynn Obrien from the Australasian Centre for Corporate Responsibility just how responsible the treasurer's budget really is.(Oh and Julia Zemiro pops in for a chat about being fiscally responsible) 🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🎟️ GET A TICKET TO OUR NEWCASTLE SHOW — JUNE 5TH🎟️ GET A TICKET TO OUR SYDNEY SATIRE SHOW AT JNI — JUNE 24TH 👕 BUY OUR MERCH HERE A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/This week's podcast takes you flash points for disaster around the world; India, London, and Clive Palmer's office.Indian authorities are clamping down on criticism against Prime Minister Modi, banning critical hashtags and throwing people in jail who tweet against the PM's response to COVID19.So at only a small personal risk to himself, Anuvab Pal unleashes his thoughts on Modi this week's podcast rather than broadcast them on twitter.Also UK Journalist and host of Course Correction podcast, Nelufar Heydat, uploads her concerns about a new NHS COVID Vaccination Passport App, that will divide the UK into the jabs and jab-nots.And Dom Knight from satirical comedy outfit The Chaser, brings to light one of Clive Palmer's more recent failings. A proposal for a coal mine less than 10km from the Great Barrier Reef has been rejected by the state government.We also discuss how A Rational Fear can get some of that $19686 per minute in fossil fuel subsidies. (Spoiler: We can't, please join our Patreon ) — oh and God pops by. 🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/  Unknown Speaker  0:00  Rational fear contains naughty words like bricks, camera, and gum, and section body, or rational fear recommended listening by immature audience.Dan Ilic  0:13  George Christensen shocking announcement that he's leaving politics is eclipsed by the shocking revelation. He's only 42 years old. And in Canada pledges to cut its carbon emissions by 40% before 2030, which is huge if Trudeau and Victorian Government has introduced a new tax on electric vehicles. Tonight we'll teach you how to convert your Tesla to a Model T Ford. It's the 30th of April 2021. And now milkshake brings all the boys to the yard of their own volition. This is a rational fear irrationalWelcome to irrational fear. I'm your host the ADHD enabled dickhead Dan Ilic. This is the podcast that takes the toughest topics and breaks them open like a pink lunchbox filled with USB sticks. Joining us on the podcast tonight he's been writing and performing satire for so long it's too late to change to something more lucrative like fossil fuel extraction from the chaser it's dumb night. Yes, preferably a fossil myself nowDom Knight  1:17  but I did try to change careers but I failed. So hello.Dan Ilic  1:21  And this is an Afghanistan born British journalist who speaks English Farsi, Hindi and dari. But this is her first time speaking Australian from Doha debaters course correction podcast. It's nella Hidayat.Unknown Speaker  1:34  Hello.Dan Ilic  1:37  That was a very honourable attempt. And finally his half torso, half legs, but all heart It's Louis Alba.Lewis Hobba  1:46  That's right. It's a very strange heart that is really leg shaped at the bottom.Dan Ilic  1:52  Coming up a little later on the grind and event pal joins us from Kolkata to shed light on whether Prime Minister Modi is the best Indian Prime Minister of all time, or the greatest Indian Prime Minister of all time. But first a message from our sponsor.God  2:06  Hi, I'm God, also known as Yahweh, the Lord Jehovah. And in some circles, Jenny, you may remember me for being the father of Jesus, the guy who was murdered by the mob when the local authorities claimed his safety was the responsibility of the seats. Now I just want to clear a few things up. Your Prime Minister Scott Morrison claimed that I came to him in a vision. And I said quote, Scott, you've got to run for Prime Minister. Well, that's not how I remember it. I remember hearing to him and saying Scott, you've got the runs. And if you don't make it home, you'll have to stop it and the dean McDonald's. I'm glad we could clear that up on the record. And remember, folks love one another. Although I understand that's more of an inner city a dinner party cafe. Greene's thing to do. Oh and buy my book is big, and it's a best seller.Dan Ilic  3:12  All right, this week's first fear Clive Palmer's proposal a bit of cold nine near the Great Barrier Reef has been dealt with a blow saying the project is not suitable. The problem is not suitable is Clive Palmer's whole brand dinosaurs on a golf course not suitable replica of a titanic the never sailed not suitable spending $60 million on a spoiler campaign to steal votes from labour not suitable paying people who work in his nickel refinery, not suitable dome in a world where coal is king, aka Queensland. How did Clive Palmer lose out to the environment on this one?Dom Knight  3:47  Well, it's a funny thing. I mean, I gave his holiday for the central Queensland mine came because few years ago Clive read about a Danny he read about all the years of objections. He read about the terrible environmental disaster or the ruining of the groundwater. And he just went home with Tim Tams. I've got an idea for a minute and this is where we are today. I was confused because, look, one thing that Queenslanders do not do is object to mines. You know Queensland has approved coal mines, like they're rejecting coming motorists from New South Wales. I love the coal as though with King Wally Lewis or a ship condo at surface like this is their thing. But then I remembered that Clive Palmer ran in the last election he spent was a $40 million or something I think even though $6 million 0.6% of the vote. This is in Queensland, so they've just Labour's just gone not know Clive, we hate you. You're the one man. Look, if Twiggy first proposes a coal mine Gina Rinehart Daryl summers could prefer Richard PC to get it up but Clive is the one guy who is saying no do not because they don't like Carl that is don't like CliveDan Ilic  4:52  urich and Clive is the liability for his own coal mine.Dom Knight  4:57  I think so. net niloufar If you know Clive Palmer he's he's kind of like the Australian prototype for Donald Trump. except he's actually a billionaire. He was there for about three years. He turned up in a Rolls Royce. And then eventually we got rid of him big time. Yeah, billionaires in politics, it turns out don't mix. So well.Nelufar Hedayat  5:15  No, it's shocking, because the wide and varied history of the UK has proven not to be not true. I mean, look at today's news, right. So today, we've had calls for Boris Johnson, our Prime Minister to be investigated because he didn't like the former Prime Minister's Theresa Mays wallpaper. He's accused of like spending 1000s and 1000s of pounds doing up number 10 with donor money. And you know what, one of the things that I really find true in the UK is we use the word crony to mean corrupt because we just we don't seem to be able to say corrupt. So there's accusations of cronyism, but this sort of idea of like billionaires coming in, it's I mean, I'm gonna say you got that from us. I'm just gonna sayLewis Hobba  6:00  the fact that Boris Johnson is gone, you know what I mean, at number 10. And the first thing that I really need to put on this whole place is my personal taste. The idea that his arrogance extends so far that he can go look at this hair. Now imagine the decision I'll make on this wall.Nelufar Hedayat  6:18  No one's gonna say that Teresa Mays like got the eye on the interior design world, right. But at the same time, he's absolutely shameless. And because he's been baseer, because I'm sure this feller is and kind of walking up with a Rolls Royce or driving up whatever the Rolls Royce, he gets away with it. There's something about politics in a developed world where if you have a personality, people are like, Oh, he's just like us. He's just like us. It doesn't matter if his ancestors are Turkish royalty, or whatever he must be. And it's that sort of gaudiness with which they kind of approach politics that that that means that they can get away with it. it's astounding.Dom Knight  6:53  I love the Boris Johnson story and I love that the Prime Minister the UK during one of the world's worst pandemics has come out. Well, we better decorate for we can do anything else.Nelufar Hedayat  7:03  When did you make that decision? Like when 2000 people were dead 20,000 people it's astounding to know that this is something that you know he had time for as well as having a baby. Also, he'sLewis Hobba  7:12  such a he's such a like giant teenager that you like, how expensive is it just to buy a Reservoir Dogs poster that you're playing?Unknown Speaker  7:24  The first order of business is to tear down these fluid delays and then put up some racing cars.Dom Knight  7:32  I love I'm sure Boris and Clive were going everywhere. But I mean, Clive. Yep, see, right. Clive is so ridiculously flamboyant. But at the same time, he is a serious coal miner. He does all this kind of stuff. And this this proposal, the central Queensland mine was an absolute doozy guys. I mean, I had a look at it. And you know how Adani was 160 kilometres from the coast. This is 10 Yeah, 10 kilometres from the barrier. It is on the coastal floodplain, it's an open pit mine. So whenever it rains, the water just gonna wash straight onto the roof. It's extraordinary.Dan Ilic  8:05  And I love how I love how the government said no at a state level. But then the central Queensland coal company spokesperson said, I think there's still a pathway forward to get this going.Nelufar Hedayat  8:18  Around the world, like here in the United Kingdom, like Australia has quite a reputation of being a vanguard of being at the forefront of like climate action. And like, you know, banning plastic bags and working on all this stuff. And that's kind of Yeah, we don't know there's a billionaire coal man wandering around trying to absolutely decimate the barrier reef like why are we hearing about this? This is insane.Lewis Hobba  8:40  Our current prime minister now will just say walked into parliament holding a lump of coal yelling that it wouldn't hurt people like people, these people areUnknown Speaker  8:51  holding stuff. I mean, snowballs, climate change.Dom Knight  8:56  We found out this week that he likes touching people to heal them in kind of a Christian way. So the two things he likes touching are people who don't want him to in coal. That's what we're dealing with at the moment,Unknown Speaker  9:06  are rational fear.Unknown Speaker  9:08  By believing someone in social media has its virtues and values, to connect people in waysUnknown Speaker  9:15  those weapons can also be used by anyone a rational fear.Dan Ilic  9:21  That brings us to the second fear of the week, Australia's biggest doll Blodgett is receiving $19,686 a minute in welfare and that's the fossil fuel industry. Yeah, if you think $19,686 a minute is a lot of money. Well, it is. It's it's kind of more than the Australian government spends on the army. That's more than the Australian government spends on the Air Force. It works out to be about $10 billion a year we could have. We could have 10 more ABCs for that kind of money or at least one ABC that pays Louis Well yeah, finally,Unknown Speaker  9:52  someone plays IDan Ilic  9:55  mean, this is this is great like wasn't one of the biggest plays in the local industry, Exxon Mobil They make $30 billion a year over four years and yet they pay zero tax. So fear mongers let me ask you this, how can we this podcast get some of that? $19,686 a minute?Nelufar Hedayat  10:12  Well, we can definitely start off by holding these lumps of coal you said.Unknown Speaker  10:18  Now,Dan Ilic  10:19  maybe I'm gonna put some recruit oil on my face and turn up in oil face, that'll probably get some sweet sweet dollars. Yeah, do we, ifLewis Hobba  10:27  we just start digging, like if we just go in the backyard? And like, I reckon they might be called a gang and just like, get like get the dog in there, the dog can mine. How small does the dig have to be before we start getting some of those subsidies?Nelufar Hedayat  10:38  Well, the closer to the barrier reef, the more likely we are to actuallyDom Knight  10:44  just hit out on that we'll just head out on the roof, go out there on a surfboard and just start literally drilling into coral. And money will fall from the sky.Dan Ilic  10:54  Now this is actually a generous kind of kind of calculation from the Australia Institute, this $10 billion figure, the IMF did a calculation a few years back that put the cost of health care and the cost of the environment as factors with inside that subsidy. And the number is way bigger. It's like 29 billion US dollars a year in subsidies. It's just mind boggling now. Now you're outside of Australia. On your podcast cause correction. This week, you speak with former Australian Prime Minister Julia Gilad about her time in office and her attempts to bring the emissions trading scheme to Australia. What did you learn about Australia's climate politics? Speaking with her,Nelufar Hedayat  11:33  actually, that you guys are no better than any one of us, which is quite nice. Actually. Like I said, I mean, around the world, Australia does have a somewhat forward thinking view of climate action. And I don't know where this comes from, because it's blatantly a lie.Unknown Speaker  11:48  Yes, yes. Yeah. Great.Dan Ilic  11:52  It's so surprising that you say that because like ever since 1997, the Kyoto Protocol, we have been absolute, malignant assholes when it comes to the international negotiations,Dom Knight  12:03  your highest per capita emissions.Unknown Speaker  12:05  I mean, Whatsapp group.Nelufar Hedayat  12:09  Europe, well, we're not Europeans anymore. Oh, got that. Wow, that just gonna pop that control for later. Now. When we spoke to the Prime Minister, she was very, I think, you know, having lost the election because of her vote because of her carbon tax. It just felt like she had experienced what it's like to be at the forefront of change in that it's awful. Many of the people I've interviewed in my life Malala Yousafzai, Twin Peaks, astronauts, politicians, all types of folks have always kind of had this veneer of like, I'm a Changemaker thing is gonna be great. But on course correction, Judy Gilad just lays it out. And she's a woman. Let's say that let's put that out there. She's a woman so people are less likely to trust her when she says things. So we got into it. We really got into the to the nub of the issue. And yeah, it's a bit disheartening to think that a the messaging is all absolutely shambolic when it comes to climate change, and be that we're gullible enough to fall for it, because we want to believe in the good news, right.Dan Ilic  13:13  One of the things you said one of the things you said in that episode, which is really interesting was Julia kind of put the case that maybe the ETS was a hard thing to do. And even though it got torn down, it was still a worthy thing to do. Because it makes whatever comes next. Yeah. And theNelufar Hedayat  13:30  person, she's a good leader, when it came to the climate bill, when it comes to ETS, she absolutely did all the right things, and she knew she was going to get banned for it. I can name I know, I can't, I can't name a single leader in the world except obviously the benevolent the good and the great Narendra Modi, who would do something along those lines of putting the nation putting something that's idealistic above herself.Dom Knight  13:53  You say that, but have you heard what our prime minister said this week in joe biden's Climate Summit, because this is impressive. This is impressive thinking it's creative. And I'm very proud of him, he managed to talk about the great carbon emissions that we have the moment all the reductions that we've made, he managed to exclude both the emissions on our exports and on our imports. So Australia's climate emissions look great if you don't count the stuff we dig out of the ground, or the ones that are you know, burnt, making things that what we import, which is every single thing that we have, it's like going to the pub and saying, Well, if you don't include all the BS that I drank, important in my body and the export of vomit at the end of the night, I'm actually sober to drive home.Dan Ilic  14:41  No, that's it like if you don't understand that's, likeUnknown Speaker  14:46  none of the trick.Dan Ilic  14:47  None of this is true. None of this is tricky. None of this is hard. It's like it's fake accounting. One of my favourite things that was said though, was by your prime minister now. Boris Johnson, I think get a message for the whole world. When he was talking let me play a bit of that it's vital for all of us to show that this is not all about some expensive politically correct green active bunny hugging or however you want to put it I'm not even with bunny hugging you know what I'm driving at? You know what he's driving at? He's no he's it's not about Bernie hacking.Nelufar Hedayat  15:24  reputation of these United Kingdom's is what he's driving out funny hugging Mother of God I really just flattened by that. I mean that man represents my life. Like he is the person that we thought was best fit.Unknown Speaker  15:43  This is a rational view.Dan Ilic  15:46  This week's third fear international travellers in the UK will be asked to show their COVID vaccination test status with the NHS smartphone app. It's the same app that people book their NHS tests on. For me, it's it's problematic as the NHS app is only available for people in the UK, if they want. If they want international people to use it. They should use an app that everybody else uses like Tinder or something, you know, you got the Vax swipe right away, you go off to your baggage collection. Now what other problems do you see with this NHS passport?Nelufar Hedayat  16:15  So first of all, Michael Gove, he's kind of looking after this sort of thing. And we've got Mr. Wahby, who's in charge of the vaccination effort and trying to sort all of this stuff out, they have not come together in a consensus or a unified voice. So we literally don't know what's going on. In fact, the Guardian Today reported that the cop COVID passports that we thought were essential for going into pubs, just for quick payments of mates, or to restaurants is now being annexed and moved away into a different app into a certificate. And then there's going to be a passport, that means that you can go to some European countries, but only if you're wearing a yellow hat and holding a song. Here's my thing with all of this is COVID has shown us like just it's just been an absolute eye opener in terms of the haves and the have nots and how we have in the global north chosen to divide society. It was obviously a big raucous around the world a couple of weeks ago, when it's been proven that most of the vaccine 80% of the vaccines in the world have gone to the global north. And that's why you end up with situations that may or may not be happening in India right now.Dan Ilic  17:15  Finally, finally, the term global South makes sense for Australia. It's like yeah, we're now in the global south. We're not getting any vaccine.Unknown Speaker  17:24  Welcome to that. Not so, good club.Nelufar Hedayat  17:26  One of the main things that I'm concerned about is this holiday home loophole. Right. So if you have a holiday home, you can like bypass all the queues, all the lines, forget the bureaucracy that has to come with this thing not to mention that I could probably just pick up a piece of paper, stick a sticker on it and call it a passport myself. Like there is no thoughts, no foresight, no nothing going into this and it's going to create an absolute storm of it. When it comes to student holiday timeDom Knight  17:55  versus dad's been using that as a reason versus dead Ben jaunting off to Spain or something to his holiday house. Yeah,Nelufar Hedayat  18:01  it's a Stanley I can't remember his name he Hanley Stanley Stanley is a legend. Not Not Not a good legend. So much of it going on in the UK. But But you know, we have a different lexicon for it in the global north in Europe. We don't call it corruption. We don't call it misplacement of public funds. We don't call it ineptitude. Within the public service. We say it's a Bumble. We say, mommy huggers, we say that it's it's all gonna be all right on the you know, on the night and all this kind of chat. So so I don't what I what I'm really terrified of is that we're going to stumble into another situation where people are going to pay the price for government ever. And that's what's happening here with thisDan Ilic  18:46  pen. And mostly it's those people who still have got a Nokia 3310 because you know, the app doesn't work on that. Yeah,Nelufar Hedayat  18:53  I know. I you know, I think your Tinder Tinder thing is good shout out. And if Michael Gove cabinet ministers listening right now, I would like you to think about this as a sensible option because your NHS app is actual shite.Lewis Hobba  19:05  So you're asking for Michael Gove to get on Tinder. Is that what you're officially putting on the record?Unknown Speaker  19:11  He'll do well,Dan Ilic  19:12  on next we speak with an event pal from India. But before we get to him, the ABC sports reporter Jared code has a podcast and I was a guest on it. And I promised to run an ad for that show.Lewis Hobba  19:21  Speaking of cronyism, that'sUnknown Speaker  19:25  incredible.Lewis Hobba  19:29  This is staggering. No oneDan Ilic  19:33  here it is.Unknown Speaker  19:34  Hello, Norman here. This is an ad for the get Jerry on podcast, a podcast and interviews comedians, where they come up with fun and silly ways to try and convince Jerry Seinfeld to come on. Unlike me, Jerry can't be bored so it's not going to happen. But it's fun to listen to these idiots try. Whether it's standing in a park with a sign begging a quarantine Daniel suas to go on the pod or pointless Billboard at a Sydney train station. This pod is doing all it can to get Gerry's attention. And I can tell you they are so far off, Jerry is more likely to take a call from me at this stage. So subscribe to the get Jerry on pod now, someone Seinfeld's agent finally responds, asking how many listeners they have, they won't have to lie like they have to all the others. Now back to our rational fear of feeling Gary would have if he knew this podcast existed.Dan Ilic  20:29  Now, you may have heard things that go into shit in India, but I'm not talking about the arrival of the British. That was some time ago, India's COVID cases are climbing fast. And they've hit a new global record with over 350,000 new cases per day this week with official numbers saying that around 2000 people a day are dying. But the real numbers are probably much worse. Joining us to agree with the official numbers or face arrest by Prime Minister Modi is the great and EVAP How can I innovate? What'sAnuvab Pal  20:56  it like where you are? Everything's perfectly fine. Nothing wrong at all. Just a tranquil tranquil day in India. Some people are saying that they watched a new release in the theatres just before we had the lockdown. And that release was King Kong Vs. Godzilla. And a lot of us could identify with what happened to the cities in and, and looking at those cities. People were saying, Yeah, this is a perfectly reasonable place to live. And that's how we're living right now. So So basically, we're in a Hollywood movie set, and it's everything else you hear is an exaggeration. It's made up. Just give me one second, I'm just going to turn down the surveillance camera. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Now we can have a conversation. Yeah, we're all gonna die.Lewis Hobba  21:56  so considerate of Modi to give you a volume button on camera. And that's really,Anuvab Pal  22:01  it. You know, it's one of those things, we stopped our exports from China. So a lot of our technology isn't working, right. So as I'm just getting past that loophole by being able to turn this down, I can just tell you how bad things were just one quick example, which is, I mean, I leave the news for all the grim, morbid stuff, a petty criminal, a thief in the Central State of Madhya Pradesh, who was an expert thief, he was very good at stealing small things like car hubcaps. Lots of random steel equipment, like he was an expert, decoyed he stole a large shipment of vaccines. And he returned it with a note in Hindi saying, I'm sorry, I didn't know. These were vaccines. So even petty criminals are stepping up to do the job for the Government of India. We're in a condition where basically, I'm turning to my high school group to see if we can help each other and I hate my I read the day before I was telling my wife how the whole a bunch of third treat, you know, scumbag bastard. Now we see each other's lives. So rule is, I guess never dis your high school friends. Because even if you hate them, they'll come through when the government doesn't.Dom Knight  23:17  I would like to thank Anna Bob's classmates signing up to the Patreon.Unknown Speaker  23:20  Yeah.Dan Ilic  23:23  I mean, that would be great. I know. There's a big audience in India and a vibe. So please tweet about this. Now lections are still happening in the in the state of West Bengal with around 17,000 cases per day. Still, how does one responsibly campaign to get elected there?Anuvab Pal  23:40  Yeah. So I'm in the city where there's elections today, in central Calcutta. It's one of the phases where Calcutta is the capital of Western goal. Yeah, elections are going on. Now. I was curious to know what why an individual would come out and attend an election rally. In the middle of this right. We're in the middle of 40 degrees heat, and you are a very poor Indian person working on a farm. If you go to listen to an election rally, you're going to lose a day's work. So why would you why who in their right mind would go and listen to political speeches in the middle of this. And then I found out in true Indian fashion, there's bribery involved. So you know, one of the age old things were very good at cricket and bribery. So what they give you is they give you 500 rupees and a packet of biryani, if you go and attend these speeches, and to be honest, I would go for 500 rupees and a packet of brownie and it doesn't even matter which side you're listening to really,Dan Ilic  24:38  what is 500 rupees worth in in dollars. HowAnuvab Pal  24:42  do you get a Coca Cola and I don't know a sandwich of some kind. But the point is, that's how you get crowds you know, and it's something we comedians should learn from. When you know we play to empty houses at the end of COVID you know, some biryani and because you're looking at these pack crowds and the media is like What the hell? Why the hell would you do this? that problem? I have no answer for I mean, you'd have to ask. Or once again, the cameras back on again are fantastic Prime Minister Modi. Every scholarly answer philosophical Hansen, Prime Minister Modi. I could do that in 3434 languages if you'd like.Dan Ilic  25:22  I'm speaking of the hat, the very handsome and the render birdie at Facebook has banned the hashtag resign Modi. Why, why? Why can they? Why can they prevent Narendra Modi from having hurt feelings but not prevent genocide in Myanmar?Anuvab Pal  25:34  You know, one of the things that Prime Minister Modi has understood about history is that if you constantly Forget it, then you can repeat it. And to everyone, it's new, you know, that's the thing. So, if you hadn't had the Nuremberg trials, then if you ever had something like Nazi Germany, again, people be like, Whoa, what is this? This is amazing. What is this? You know, so But if you don't, if you don't have regret, shame, if you don't ever say I'm sorry, you can keep going. You can keep doing stuff. And there's a new narrative that's, that's coming out from the government, which basically says, forget the past. Let's all worked together, forget the past. Now, the past was about six minutes. So that's a really good way to think about forget the guys lying here, this is dead. ForgetDan Ilic  26:25  about the future now that that word help us. And speaking of the past this week, Australia is closing its borders to India. Now the rate of infection per capita in India is because it is so huge, the rate of infection is about the same as Italy and the United States and the UK about 200 per million. It's almost it's almost like there's something different between the people of India and the people of the UK and USA, but I can't put my finger on it. And in fact, do you have any idea why Australia is trading India soAnuvab Pal  26:55  differently? It's an age old thing. It's an age old thing. It's been going on for 1000s of years. The Americans are in denial of it. And you know, all know what I'm talking about. It's the big word. It's cricket. Basically, you know what happened? I mean, some show some people that five people that follow cricket in the world, probably know that the Indian cricket team beat everyone in Australia, if they get away, they might do it again. So why not just ban everyone? Other people are saying racism, I don't think it's racism. I really think that's what it is. They just don't want these 11 people to get there again.Dan Ilic  27:32  I think I've got a picture of two cricketers flying internally in India. This is them on a domestic flight, David Warner, and Kane Williamson on a flight internally in India. It's like the only people who have got these guys or four people on the podcast. They're dressed head to toe in hazmat kind of suits. They don't even real hazmat suits. They're like dust certs that painters wear and they've got masks on. And that's about it. Like it's not even not even a real, not even a real kind of hazmat suit.Dom Knight  28:01  Well, the news have just come through this evening that, in fact, to Australian cricketers have found a way through the blockade or you've got to do you've just got to fly to Doha, do the tests in Doha and then come back from there and oh, and also be white and rich?Unknown Speaker  28:18  was very, very well.Dom Knight  28:19  I don't know who it is. They haven't been identified, but I suspect that Steve Smith and Dave wanted just sandpapering through the rules.Lewis Hobba  28:26  Yeah, the other the other only other alternative is if you get cast in the new Thor film,Unknown Speaker  28:32  as well.Dan Ilic  28:33  Yeah, at this point, there are so many Hemsworth they could create their own cricket team. I think there is a thing that is 11 and Swiss brothers,Unknown Speaker  28:40  then I might watch cricket. I mean,Nelufar Hedayat  28:44  we should look into this Australia.Anuvab Pal  28:48  I did see somewhere that your prime minister said he wasn't going to give a special claim to Australian cricketers to go back. And, and I think that there's good reason for it. Because, given some of your leading players spend so much time in India, a couple of them are in Bollywood films. They've done their own romantic comedies here. I just recently saw your former captain in a chewing tobacco commercial, I think they'll have a harder time proving their Australian credentials.Dom Knight  29:14  I think if you'd seen one of Brett lays a Bollywood movies as I have, you would close the borders permanently. No restraints ever again.Anuvab Pal  29:22  Now there you go. Tom probably knows more about Bollywood that I do. I was three minutes of that film. And then I did not watch cricket for six months. So I don't know if you've sat through it. You're a better Indian person than I am. So.Dom Knight  29:34  Well, one question I have for you on a verb is about these numbers. And we mentioned that the rate of infection is looks on paper like the West but I talked to my wife is Indian. And she said, Look, no one believes the numbers. Both because they can't possibly catch everyone because there's slums. Things are doing really badly there. But also, people just think the government is changing the numbers. Is that the sense you get on the ground there?Anuvab Pal  29:58  Yeah, I mean, look, there's small discrepancy. sees the just the tiny factor of 100 is the lie. So saying one, basically, numbers 100. So if you can work out what that equation is, from the lie to the actual, you'll be fine. And this goes back to an old indian thing that we have. And maybe it has something to do with being in a third world country, maybe something to do with a complex about not being rich enough as a country that people always say, you know, never, never, like, accept blame for anything. Because, you know, we have this phrase in India, where the where the prepositions are messed up, and the phrases it will come on you. It can be inappropriately translated in the West. But what they really mean is, and I don't mean to intrude on anyone's private life here, but what they really mean is, you will be blamed for it all. So you know, if say, India is reporting a million deaths, everyone be like, Oh, my God, look at India million deaths, India. And it's, it's, they teach us this in high school as well, just if you've done something wrong, don't admit it. Otherwise, it's just going to come on.Dom Knight  31:06  He said, Prime Minister, Scott Morrison Indian.Anuvab Pal  31:11  This The thing with the COVID COVID thing. And we did this at the last wave as well. Basically, if you don't admit, it's going on, it's not happening. And we solve Indian family conflicts that way as well. If we suppress it long enough, one or the other party will die after really resolve the problem, but what's happening is now India has a lot of good data scientists and the want to tell the world the facts, right. They want to you know, they have we have brilliant scientists, we have brilliant civic society, people who studied abroad who want to give people the reality. And what the government is saying is that these are made up numbers to make India look bad. So that's the new thing that's going on. Because it's not a pandemic. It's a fashion show, and you cannot look bad.Dan Ilic  31:52  I want to thank you for joining us on irrational fear. And I hope you don't get arrested because of this podcast. Like so many of your country, people have been arrested for tweeting things about Modi on Twitter. So thanks. Thanks so much for joining us on irrational fear.Anuvab Pal  32:06  It's my pleasure by the way My name is not about Paul, this never happened. But I wish you guys wherever you are. Good luck.Dan Ilic  32:15  That's it for the show tonight. big thank you to Dom night nella had died and Louis harbour and an EVAP How do you guys got anything to plug? Don't you wanna plug anything?Dom Knight  32:23  I'm doing absolutely nothing other than this has been wonderful.Dan Ilic  32:27  What would you like to plugNelufar Hedayat  32:29  in podcasts out right now across all reputable podcasts? Sure. Which is Spotify, Apple podcasts and Stitcher and all of that. Please listen. It's really good. I'm in it couldDan Ilic  32:37  cause correction. It is very good. All check it in the show notes. Louis, you want to plug anything?Lewis Hobba  32:41  Oh, you know what, actually, yeah, for the first time in the history of this podcast. I actually have launched a new podcast in the last few weeks. Yeah, it's called simply the jest. It's from our radio show that we do on Triple J. It is though, like most insane stories, that Triple J listers which might not mean much to you know that. They're basically like a bunch of beautiful, psychotic wild grumps. Every week, we give them a topic and anyone in the country can call in and tell their story very quickly. And we hear about 20 and then we pick our favourite one and it is DariusDan Ilic  33:18  Lewis and I have shows coming up in Vega and Newcastle. Stay tuned for that. And we've also got a show coming up in Chippendale sometimes, which just got moved this week, which is fantastic. big thank you to rode mics, the birther Foundation, our wonderful Patreon supporters, Jacob brown on the tepanyaki timeline. The incredible Rupert Degas for his incredible God voice over at the stone at the start of the show. Until next week, there's always something to be scared of. Goodnight A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/Once a month on A Rational Fear on the podcast feed we present a different kind of show:Greatest Moral Podcast Of Our Generation is a long form conversation with a climate leader from around the world.(02:21) Linh Do and Dan Ilic rip into the Leaders Climate Summit from this week in the climate news (14:08) This month's Dan Ilic talks with School Strike for Climate Leader: Jean Hinchliffe If you enjoy our work please chip in to our Patreon to support the podcast or buy something from our shop: https://www.redbubble.com/people/ARationalFear/shop?asc=u    A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/Thanks to so many of you who made it out to the Melbourne International Comedy Festival on the weekend. We had an absolutely cracker show from start to finishFeat.Alice FraserSami ShahGabbi BoltLewis HobbaJames ColleyDan Ilic+ Simon Holmes à Court💉 We covered the vaccination rollout.🥔 Peter Dutton suing people on twitter for defamation.⭐⭐⭐ Bit Clout and reputation on the blockchain.🌏 The highjacking of the Climate Change Authority and Turnbull's sacking from the NSW Zero Emissions board.🤴 Prince Philip's death.🏄‍♀️ Netflix's new reality series set in Byron Bay: Byron Baes.🎹 Gabbi Bolt does songs about climate change, incels, and empathy consultants.It was a great show — I hope you enjoy listening to it as much as we enjoyed performing it.CheersDan 🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/ 🎟️ SEE A RATIONAL FEAR AT MELBOURNE INTERNATIONAL COMEDY FESTIVAL: https://www.comedyfestival.com.au/2021/shows/a-rational-fear On the podcast this week, we grab an e-meter in both hands and audit the accounts of Scientology in Australia. We rip into the Government missing the vaccination target, and ask ourselves is being a tradie-cum-stripper an essential worker?Also Gina Rinehart, Australia's most successful climate action delayer and funder of misinformation, has released a joke book (sic). Even though a super from SkyNews Australia said she's the author, it looks like, for all intents and purposes, a collection of memes she stole from my Dad's email account.Make sure to follow this week's fearmonger panel on social media, and book a ticket to their comedy festival shows.Kirsty Webeck (Chuck A Sickie)Craig Quartermaine (Twitter / Facebook)Kamahl (Twitter)Lewis Hobba (A Rational Fear)Dan Ilic (A Rational Fear)There's only 1 week to go until our comedy festival show, that is, if no tradie-cum-strippers visit Victoria before then.🎟️ SEE A RATIONAL FEAR AT MELBOURNE INTERNATIONAL COMEDY FESTIVAL: https://www.comedyfestival.com.au/2021/shows/a-rational-fear Bertha Announcement  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by the birth of foundation.Dan Ilic  0:04  Good evening Lewis.Lewis Hobba  0:05  Hello Daniel. HowUnknown Speaker  0:07  are you?Dan Ilic  0:08  I'm well I'm well and a big Hello to all of our new Patreon supporters Louis Sam. You know how last week Lewis was a record breaking week for our Patreon supporters?Lewis Hobba  0:18  Of course I've already bought a Tesla put a new wine cellar in the rental. I've really been dining outDan Ilic  0:27  Well, it's thanks to Dave like this week is even more 14 new Patreon subscribers big thank you to Trey Ryan Christie Osborne Professor Hilary bambrick from the climate council previous fear monger on the show Lisette Salah Vich Eleanor booth Dylan Joel Matt Smith, Joseph bass, Jacqueline Flynn, Jared Van Dijk travelling Gilmore, Megan Villa just signed on just moments before we started the broadcast more expensive from the climate collective. Carrie, who is only signing up for Gabby bolts she insists that you know where she insists we're okay. That Gabby bolt is the real star of the show.Lewis Hobba  1:00  That's fair. That's absolutely fair. We'll still take the money. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.Dan Ilic  1:04  Yeah. And speaking of Gabby bolts she's going to be performing at our Melbourne International Comedy Festival show. April 11. We're Amelia weekend a little bit of why we've sold over 100 seats, which means there's still 150 to go because I booked this big book the biggest the festival.Unknown Speaker  1:21  No OneLewis Hobba  1:22  No One books comedy more than awake out there. Now. That's true. That's true. That's true.Unknown Speaker  1:27  Relax.Dan Ilic  1:28  Yeah, you know, I have a theory like if we only sell like 150 seats in the 250 seat venue, we can space everyone out and say it's COVID safe.Lewis Hobba  1:35  Anything's a sellout in 2021.Dan Ilic  1:37  Speaking of sailing out I did a TVC this month you might have seen me on TV. Sorry about that. Sometimes you got to make money. I'm recording my end of a rational view on gadigal land and the Euro nation sovereignty was never stated. We need a treaty. Let's start the showUnknown Speaker  1:51  rational fear contains naughty words like bricks,Unknown Speaker  1:55  camera, fed COMMUnknown Speaker  1:58  And section body. A rational view recommended listening by immature audience.Dan Ilic  2:04  Tonight we finally unblocked this sewers but London parliament is full of shifts and Australia has missed its COVID vaccine by 85%. The country has messed up this much since landing on the beta gallipoli's and southeast Queensland comes out of a three day lockdown wild northern New South Wales narrowly avoids an outbreak of blues and roads. It's the second of April 2021 We ain't no fools. This is irrational fear.Welcome to rational fi. I'm your host former Australian Financial Review senior political operative Dan Ilitch. This is a rational fear that podcast that takes the scariest news stories of the week and unwisely laughed in their face. Let's meet our fear bunkers for tonight. Thanks to Brisbane locked down our first guest can now spend less time doing stand up comedy shows and spend more time with his beloved ride on lawnmower. Zooming in from southeast Queensland. It's Mr. hotspot himself cry quartermaine wangi.Craig Quatermaine  3:09  Good evening, everybody. And yeah, don't don't talk aboutDan Ilic  3:15  Renee, you're right on lawn mode. Here we we need. When you first got a ride on lawn mower, didCraig Quatermaine  3:21  you think God I've made it? I did not want it in any way. And I did not want this amount of grass. And there's something that happens when you're in your late 30s. And you look around and I modal that and this is just this free pride. Yeah, I just became obsessed. I became one of those guys. That World War Two barbecuing mowing your lawn. And I've got two of the three of them.Lewis Hobba  3:44  Are you part of the Facebook group? The Australian lawn enthusiasts group?Craig Quatermaine  3:50  No,Lewis Hobba  3:51  no, I'm not. I'm gonna send you this link. I followed them like three years ago for some dumb thing that we were doing on the radio. City. Yeah, I grew up. I grew up in the country. I grew up on a ride on mower. But I don't I don't need it now because I realised that they suck and it's work. So I'm trying to stay far away from that life as possible. But you should get involved with this group. It's passionate. I getCraig Quatermaine  4:15  it. I completely feel it absolutely is one of those things. I never, I could never become one of those guys now. It's it's trying to figure out how I can do an entire acre without backtracking.Dan Ilic  4:28  It's like, welcome back to the largest loans of Australia podcast. Our next guest has just hit a milestone of 8000 Twitter followers. Was it her charm, her stand up success or maybe it was her constant tweets about the Suez Canal? It's Kirsty women.Unknown Speaker  4:45  Hello.Kirsty Webeck  4:46  Hey going,Dan Ilic  4:48  Kirsty Welcome to the 8000 Club. How does it feel to have 8000 Twitter followers? Oh,Kirsty Webeck  4:54  it's an immense amount of stress. I think it would be rivalled only by Craig having to manage that amountDan Ilic  5:03  Finally, it's the man that all young up and coming radio broadcast as a calling the ever given of Triple J. It's loose.Lewis Hobba  5:11  That's true. I am I am too big and no one can get rid of me.Dan Ilic  5:18  Coming up a little later on, we'll be giving Kemal a call. After years of research, he's finally gotten the answer to why so many people are so unkind and the answer will surprise you. But first, here's a message from our sponsor.Unknown Speaker  5:30  The rules of federal parliament are changing from April 1 to 2021. Some behaviour will now be quietly condemned, whether that's accidentally quote, assaulting a silly drunk girl, or just whacking on a desk. The consequences of your actions could now be enforced with serious thinly veiled threats. Like you could lose your portfolio, lower the chances of pre selection, maybe, or possibly even getting a telling off by a state premier. That's why the Prime Minister's Prime Minister for female complaints is introducing knob keeper. knob keeper provides relief for your upstanding member. No keeper supports noms with fully paid leave, so you can spend more time with your family if you still have one before coming back and fulfilling your promise to the Australian people while collecting $200,000 a year. Or your fully paid leave can be used to brief a team of lawyers so you can sue a trusted journalist who never mentioned your name for defamation. But remember, if you're not sure whether that upskirting photo or dick pic is appropriate. Check with Jenny first Julie has a wayUnknown Speaker  6:41  of clarifying things.Unknown Speaker  6:42  Nope. Keep a helping hand for our big swinging decks authorised by irrational fear on behalf of the Australian Government camera.Dan Ilic  6:50  First year this week, Australia has missed his targets for vaccination. Now, I'm not saying that they've, you know, injected everyone in their eyeballs. No, the state and federal governments have only vaccinated 600,000 people missing the target set by the pm some months ago, or 4 million, which is basically missing it by 85%, which is huge. The federal government is updated the target to 4 million by the end of April. In order to achieve that they'll need to do the equivalent of 121,000 shots a day. And with music festivals cancelled, there's still even less opportunity to double up with other drugs a fear mongers, how can the government made the hit goal of 4 million doses by the end of April Louis? Well, ILewis Hobba  7:30  mean, first of all, I think anyone who's ever listened to this podcast knows that we were pretty in glass houses when it comes to laughing at someone from the doing 15% of the expected job. I want to be very clear in that as an Australian, I think we can all relate to that achievement. Yeah.Dan Ilic  7:49  Do you think this is going to embark? Do you think this is going to big up the government in the eyes of regular Australia? BecauseUnknown Speaker  7:55  like, Oh, youDan Ilic  7:56  know, they're blogging on the blog? Yeah, I totally.Lewis Hobba  8:00  I think they'll just be like, why didn't you get to formulate it? They're like, Oh, I might as long weekend. We knocked off pretty early on Thursday. We'll be back Tuesday. But you know, Tuesday's a short week, so really, we're looking at maybe April 12. And I think most people can look at that and go sure I can I back that.Dan Ilic  8:17  Kirsty's is a big concern for you not being able to get the shot sooner.Kirsty Webeck  8:21  Not necessarily for me, but I think someone should get it.Unknown Speaker  8:27  Like give itUnknown Speaker  8:28  give it to someone bleeding hearts over here. Give it to someone.Kirsty Webeck  8:32  I reckon, though, that what they need to do is train up all of the musicians that are out of work at the moment get them given the jabber outLewis Hobba  8:41  everyone who is supposed to play blues fest retrain them as a as a as a nurse or doctor.Unknown Speaker  8:46  Absolutely.Kirsty Webeck  8:47  I know. Well, I mean, they could go to medical school for eight years and they'd be right up.Dan Ilic  8:54  Craig, you're in the you're in the hot spot of of southeast Queensland. You need three cases. How are you coping?Craig Quatermaine  9:01  I couldn't be further away from everyone. So it's pretty good. It's not that bad. Queensland Is This Really? I'm from Western Australia. Queensland has is very, we had aggressive exception. The case of you know, they hear about the stuff Oh, we got to wear a mask. I can hear right. And then that's it. That's as faras been great. And, but it's just interesting for me, because, yeah, they're still not giving them out. We're trying to lift it. I mean, it's amusing for me. I ran 10k yesterday. I'm in pretty good Nick. But just because I'm indigenous and nearly 40 you get the vaccine before any of you Oh, the fucking it's hilarious. As far as getting up vaccinations, I don't know maybe you got you got to show a certificate or something like the only way you can watch married at first sight is if you get the jab awesome shit like that, but just Yeah Is that like thatLewis Hobba  10:03  I actually loved that idea, Craig. I think if you told everyone that it was lip filler, instead of like, this is the Pfizer lip filler and then you just like we just need to test it out on your arm and then once it's Think of it as Botox but for your for your bicep.Unknown Speaker  10:20  When you were in politics, a group of male politicians who called themselves the swinging digs sought to block your career aspirations.Unknown Speaker  10:28  I believe it was big swinging decks. So there was obviously an overexcited imagination on the part of some I would suggest a rational fear.Dan Ilic  10:39  This week second fear ladies look up your tradies because they could have rabies or worse COVID-19 in perhaps the most Australian of COVID-19 stories, a Gold Coast trainee who works part time as a stripper, most recently at a hinge night in Byron Bay has been linked to the Queensland hospital cluster that sparked the lightest lockdown. You know, he's actually updated his routine he now plays performs to Joe caucus hit you can leave your mask on. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I've got two shakes of the head and 111 sympathy nod fromLewis Hobba  11:14  Kirsty you have no way of physically keeping us at this podcast and I will walkDan Ilic  11:19  I will walk. It's easy to blame the NBN and Smokeout is easy. I reckon if Kemal wasn't coming on a little bit later, y'all would have walked the mongers. stripper trainees essential workers, Craig.Craig Quatermaine  11:35  I think so. I think they're a bit of it's really really because this isn't the thing my mom was supposed to come up and visit. And this guy being like, this is the whole scare that stopped. Because Yeah, mums in a late 60s. She was supposed to come up and because of this case, she didn't make it into Queensland. She's gonna stay out in Victoria. And it's well, not because she skated COVID is because she swore he can't get a lap dance.You got it. The thing is, you hear the in here stereotypes and you hear all these sort of ridiculous stories. Then you spent one night in the Gold Coast like yeah, this makes sense. It's totallyDan Ilic  12:17  The tradie has such this iconic stranglehold on on on Australian culture. Do you think this has done any damage to the icon of the tradie? Kirsty?Kirsty Webeck  12:27  No, absolutely not. Like, if anything, the part of the story that I'm most fixated on is that he went to visit his nana, And I'm like, He's a good boy.Dan Ilic  12:41  I didn't know that step out of the story.Kirsty Webeck  12:43  I think if anything, he's, he's increased. The standing in the community. Definitely, in my opinion.Unknown Speaker  12:51  I love him.Lewis Hobba  12:52  As with all COVID things, it's always funny until it's not. But it'll be interesting to see what happens with the Byron Bay outbreak because I don't know how much time you spent around there. But trying to get them to wear masks is going to be it's going to be like feeding a toddler vegetables like it is going to be one of the toughest challenges in human history.Dan Ilic  13:10  If you told them that wearing a mask was cultural appropriation though they'd probably doLewis Hobba  13:16  if you connected it to an Indian headdress, American headdress rather. That's right. Yeah.Dan Ilic  13:20  Everyone in Coachella is wearing masks, man. Everyone's got its traditional Navajo dress.Craig Quatermaine  13:25  I believe you're digging the boots into people that have just been robbed Xavier Rudd each pair of pricks. They've been through it.Lewis Hobba  13:38  We've only had 20 chances a year for the last 20 years to catch up.Unknown Speaker  13:45  To it Robert he resigns from the table ministry for breaching ministerial code and 2018 set 200,000 Rolex watches from a Chinese billionaire he's a parliamentary speech written by a property developer is $38,000 for home internet and says my bag when he incorrectly blamed cyber attack for centerlink going down lastUnknown Speaker  14:02  year. How does this bloke get more responsibility in your shopUnknown Speaker  14:05  when someone does a good job like thatLewis Hobba  14:07  they show that they can take on responsibility if they can get things done for AustraliansDan Ilic  14:11  a rational fear this week's third fear in Scientology news. Now apparently Australia's become a tax haven for this Church of Scientology. It enjoys its tax exempt status in Australia whereas in other countries like the UK, it actually has to pay tax. So the Australian arm of the not for profit church between 2013 and 2019 has made a profit of $65.4 million. Which is insane. The church makes a profit of about 30% more than companies and Australian stock went on the Australian Stock Exchange. When it comes to purchase Goa. It is made $102,000 per church goer whereas the Catholic Church has only made 5600 per head. Now the total assets in Australia from the Church of Scientology totals $326 million. It kind of makes sense. Now with all these celebrities coming here to make these films, I guess fishmonger's, to what extent does this make the Church of Scientology appealing to you, Kirsty? Is this exciting for you?Kirsty Webeck  15:12  Yeah, I find that today after I. Allegedly, they will be claiming that they're putting all that money into properties in which they can carry on their religious teachings. And I just want to get inside those properties. But there'll be paralysis. I want to see what's happening in there. Yeah, I want to swim in the infinity pool.Dan Ilic  15:40  I don't know if you saw there's a photo of the headquarters in chatswood. in Sydney, it used to be a campus of the University of Technology, Sydney, but now the Church of Scientology is bought, they bought an entire university campus and turn it into their Australian headquarters. It's, it's incredible.Lewis Hobba  15:58  I think, like the big difference when you start thinking of the Catholic Church in Scientology, apart from things is, I think, you know, you look at all of the money that the Catholic Church has. And so obviously, there's a lot of bad and let's all just accept that in pocket. But if you're looking for the positives, you know, there's a lot of there's a lot of songs, there's a lot of art, you can go and see some sculptures you can pop into, you know, you can go to Rome and wander around and have a look you like, they're ostentatious with their wealth in a way that you can go, I can see where my money's going. Whereas I feel like Scientology missed that trick. I would love to be able to go and see the you know, the modern version of DaVinci. David, where it's just a tiny little statue of Tom Cruise with his dick out like this. There's room out there. I feel like they jumpedCraig Quatermaine  16:47  on surveillance equipment.Unknown Speaker  16:51  That's their art. Yeah,Craig Quatermaine  16:52  they don't have any big gold statues. I'm with Jesse though, as far as a Korean. Why not? What is a struggling comedian like myself? Why wouldn't you sign up with sites? I think they take less than most managers. argue with the results.Kirsty Webeck  17:10  Let's get them to produce our Comedy Festival shows in 2022. Take it from there. ButCraig Quatermaine  17:24  as far as religions go, let's be honest, it's not the weirdest one name,Unknown Speaker  17:28  the latest one, likeCraig Quatermaine  17:34  underpants is a dude that rose after three days is like, Well, you could just keep going, in a perspective that all of these religions are like 2000 years old. That's hilarious to me. Anyway. If you're looking for a look at the capital gains in Scientology, fuck it, why not?Dan Ilic  17:50  They actually like looking at this article actually structured like how Google and Facebook and apple or offshore their money, they give out loans to the other international arms of the business and then they charge almost like franchise fees and licencing fees back to the other parts of the business. And so you kind of got this aggregate it's like Australia is a place where there's like this storing the wealth of the entire church. Because other tax other tax jurisdictions mean that the tax the money will go to go to tax will go to governments.Lewis Hobba  18:22  It's proposing a heist. Alright, let'sDan Ilic  18:30  do Hang on a sec. Now. Now this week's Hang on a sec comes from Sky News Australia. Apparently,Gina Rinehart has launched a joke book. Yeah. I'm gonna play the news story. At any point you at any point you want to chime in just say Hang on a second, I'll stop the tape.Unknown Speaker  18:49  They say laughter is the best medicine and mining magnate Gina Rinehart has wants more of it to be sharedLewis Hobba  18:55  these little bits of Hang on a second. Yeah, well, what does like before we even get to the insanity of this idea? That introduction makes no sense. She's not a doctor. So to say laughter is the best medicine. Like what why is that even an appropriate introduction for a mining magnate? I'd have thought like, you'd have gone something like every comedians looking for the gold and dug up heaps of it or something you don't I mean, like, I haven't really thought about it, but I wouldn't have gone with medicine.Craig Quatermaine  19:24  I love that. exactly the point where you stop that she looks like a witch.Unknown Speaker  19:28  Sort of bits ofKirsty Webeck  19:30  humour to hopefully bring some smile to faces.Unknown Speaker  19:33  She began gathering jokes and stories for friends in hospital. Now they've been put together into a book to bring moments of joy to those who need it. Most people in this bookCraig Quatermaine  19:43  in jumping on to St. Jude have done the corporateUnknown Speaker  19:53  How much does it pay?Unknown Speaker  19:56  RidiculousKirsty Webeck  20:03  Look, I would have been seated. I wouldn't have done a set.Dan Ilic  20:06  Craig, you would have been one of the prime candidates to do the corporate as a former person who worked in the mines themselves Surely,Craig Quatermaine  20:12  Luke Okay, so I have taken dirty mining money several times. But in my defence when I did feel guilty about making money of digging up my ancestral home, I bought myself a really nice pair of shoe mining gigs and Wi Fi so much. And it's after seeing this video and seeing whose presence and that is basically a junket. And that sky, I'm pretty confident would be the only people reporting on it because they own half of that station. I can't even imagine what the hell DMC got paid just to turn up and do that. And they're just, it's just because you grind their bones to make you bread doesn't mean you know how to make kids laughKirsty Webeck  21:06  as a man died, but I think they have left us with things that are highly relevant. today.Unknown Speaker  21:12  It's a project close to her heart. Dina Reinhardt's Cambodian daughter's design the book cover,Lewis Hobba  21:18  hang on a second. Where is this journalist currently because it seems to be like she's in an empty pub. Is that is that the launch?Craig Quatermaine  21:26  I think that launch just the journalist and Gina Rinehart and an empty pop Sky News for all the money and everything they have pumped into it. All of their journos in regional state so if that's in Perth, or wherever it is, a lot of images vj so it's just the journalists and their cameras. She's probably filming that herself. Yeah, yeah.Dan Ilic  21:45  Yeah, Louis youLewis Hobba  21:46  don't don't try to make me feel sorry for a Sky News journalist.Unknown Speaker  21:50  I'm not trying toCraig Quatermaine  21:54  sign up for evil pricksUnknown Speaker  22:00  the magic of technology connecting speakers and guests. Those from Parliament House the Royal Flying Doctor Service and pest Polly attending virtually to share their favourite journalisticDan Ilic  22:10  so the Royal Flying Doctors, journalists, people in Parliament House and pest Polly, the the the polkadot thatLewis Hobba  22:21  like pill company,Unknown Speaker  22:23  yeah, what was what?Unknown Speaker  22:23  What?Dan Ilic  22:24  What's going on over here? Why is this valley logicLewis Hobba  22:27  a joke, but I imagine she's when she just be one of their biggest customers. When you have a lot of pills to clot. You need to constantly be updating your pill collection. It's incredible.Unknown Speaker  22:37  And quotesUnknown Speaker  22:38  if you want something, said ask a man. If you want something done, ask a woman.Unknown Speaker  22:45  Yeah, guess say laughter is desperate.Lewis Hobba  22:48  is Gina plugging this officer? Oh, she's just literally gone on like Wikipedia jokes. She's stolen them she had you wouldn't you'd be failed for this at university?Dan Ilic  22:56  No, she absolutely has. And she's like taking names from people's emails and put them in the book. Like, there's one in there saying, with a mum pointing to a girl say, Listen here, little girl, if you got to stop lying, otherwise, you'll become an ABC journalist. Like that's, that's one of the jugs of the book. They like right wing ship posts, put in book form to give Cambodian children some joy.Lewis Hobba  23:19  And that that that Jabba the ABCs really gonna bring a smile to the face of someone in hospitalUnknown Speaker  23:25  in an era of political correctness,Unknown Speaker  23:28  keeping warm and enjoying the laughs I mean, who doesn't need a laugh right now? Seriously, GinaUnknown Speaker  23:33  is a woman of the world literally. And she's a great friend and I just admireLewis Hobba  23:39  Hang on a second. Where does Bronwyn Bishop think the rest of women?Dan Ilic  23:45  Definitely not the world. What? Whatever planet whatever Roman bishops from.Lewis Hobba  23:52  I was born in a helicopter flying from Melbourne to jalon. So I was not really off the world. I was up the sky.Unknown Speaker  23:59  profits from jokes and joys are going to the Cambodian Children's Fund shine awards, the Royal Flying Doctor Service and country Women's Association. Gabriella palla, Sky News.Dan Ilic  24:12  And you can get a copy of that book from somewhere. And that helps all those kids good on them. That's very good.Lewis Hobba  24:20  I mean, like, do obviously all the money that goes to the kids, the better but how much do you reckon that money? How much do you think that book will make compared to how quickly she could have just given them the money? It's gonna make like,Dan Ilic  24:31  yeah, it's gonna make like 600 bucks. Like that's, that's all it's kind of like, I tried to look for a link to buy the book and you can't get the link anyway. Like, maybe she's trying to sell it, you know, to her workers or something. I don't know.Lewis Hobba  24:44  Gina needs the Scientologists to manage this book distribution.Dan Ilic  24:48  Do you guys have your own jokes for a genuine heart stroke book? I've written a couple. Knock knock. Who's there? 200 200 Whoa. 200 Korean workers on board. Five Seven phases working 84 hours a week at $16 an hour to build Roy Hill iron ore mine.Lewis Hobba  25:07  I feel like you could you could get brevity if you just like funniest joke tax.Unknown Speaker  25:14  Rational fearUnknown Speaker  25:18  is Kamala coming up next.Unknown Speaker  25:20  Yes he is.Dan Ilic  25:21  Could you ask him to smile so we can save a lot of people may have thought that that was in terribly bad taste we'll have one. This is a rational fear. Joining us now is a man known to irrational fear diehard fans. He is Kumar Welcome back to irrational fear KemalKamahl  25:35  Thank you. Glad to be with you.Dan Ilic  25:38  Now, last week, during some press for Dancing with the Stars Dara summers lamented that he had Saturday wasn't on TV anymore because of cancelled culture, which meant you couldn't get away with good, clean fun. Then a guy on Twitter john Patterson published a clip from Hey, hey, have yourself being bullied and it went absolutely viral on Twitter. You're huge on Twitter. Now you love Twitter. What did you make of that clip and seeing that old footage again?Kamahl  26:04  Well, it doesn't take much imagination to work on it was it was a bully. It was humiliating and degrading. Given that the week after I was paired up at Carnegie Hall to do my second project. It was it was I don't know whether the President intent intended insult. But yeah, you know, it could have been a little kinder, I thought,Dan Ilic  26:34  what did you think when you kind of saw this thing going around again?Kamahl  26:37  No, I look what what really happened is that when Harry Connick Jr, appeared on the show, and and there was a cartoon with a which came out the next state CHANNEL SEVEN turned up, wanting to know what I thought of escape. And, and they wanted to know if it was great. That's not really a manipulator, who is racist, I am more racist than Hey, Saturday, meaning in the real sense, I was brought up in Malaysia as a Sri Lankan, Malaysian born, Sri Lankan. And we had prejudices and racism of our own. And I mean, they, the whiter you are, the better you are, the faster you are, the worse you are. In fact, my family stopped me from playing cricket because it was the sun would make me a doctor. But we have weird kind of prejudices in Asian countries as well. So the I think, maybe the reason I mean, I'm trying to work out why it was necessary for them, to humiliate me. And I think it was a form of a tall poppy syndrome, because it was my second concert there. And I think I told them that Bob Hope was going to introduce me. And yeah, it was it was trying to their way of dealing with the tall Poppy, and especially a black hole. Perfect.Dan Ilic  28:03  Yeah, I I noticed Darrell summers has never performed at Carnegie Hall.Kamahl  28:07  Not even once. I don't know. But then, on the contrary, I think he's a he's a very, very talented man. I, you know, I really don't know. Because at the moment, there have been all sorts of negative and positive comments in there where there was a lady with a programme manager of a radio station, said that, you know, why, what the past that I was talking about, because I was being outed. Every time I appeared on the lily pad. I don't know who this person is, but particularly and she's the programme manager. I mean, that that's, that's rubbish I. I had a wonderful time on the big day out. And Sahara Herald was in charge. And my friend did duck pond put me on there year after year for nearly 90 days. So we are getting this weird reaction to this.Unknown Speaker  29:02  Yeah,Dan Ilic  29:03  I remember watching high as a kid and seeing is a lily pad. I think lily pad was an amazing part of your career.Kamahl  29:13  Find out who this lady is. You can't tell me obviously he never attended it. Maybe or maybe he was. You know, I think we I'm getting sort of crazy flames in at the same time. There was one. There was a guy. He said I'm 32 years old. But we did Oh, my mother is still hot about you. wonderful, beautiful. Very funny. Well,Dan Ilic  29:43  you should have seen Kirsty WebEx tweets when she found out she was being she was going to be on the show with you Kemal Kirsty, do you have anything to say toKamahl  29:53  you? Ah,Kirsty Webeck  29:54  yeah, I'm a huge fan Kemal and when I told my parents I was coming on the panel. Cast with you. They were adamant that I was to tell you that they're massive fans and they've loved every single thing you've ever done.Kamahl  30:08  Well, you know, I think I think a bigger head, they have good taste anyway, they're particularly in having a daughter like you. Jim, you know, I really, you know, the thing is, in a way, this has been a, you know, sort of a disguised form of blessing. I mean, I've I haven't had this much reaction, positive 90% percent positive in my 86 years of not 86. Yeah, I'm 86 years old now. But I started doing this 64 years ago. And yeah, it's it's amazing.Dan Ilic  30:50  64 years in showbiz and still going that is such stone cow. That's really great.Kamahl  30:57  It's a good taste of the Australian audience. Come on,Lewis Hobba  31:00  I can I can I ask. Like I because I didn't, I didn't get a chance to watch it. When it was on it was not really in my, not quite my time. But watching watching that clip that I did say today, last week was horrifying. And I could only imagine what it was like for you to see it again. And to think about all of that again. But what did you if you don't mind me asking? Well think about like when Darrel summers apologised. Did that? Because obviously you would have known him for a long time. What did you think of that? No,Kamahl  31:31  I mean, I suppose you know, he was the host of this show. I mean, he could have, you know what i what i didn't mind so much. They they, they hit him in the face with a powder with a white powder. But what they disappoint me more than anything else is the fact they didn't bother to make a little bit of a question. That's what I was doing next week in New York. With with the doing a show for the second time. I don't know whether it's a tall poppy syndrome, or what it is that? I don't know. So that's, I'm more interested in that than being hit in the face, really. But I wouldn't have my mind in taking the hit, provided the game, you know, balance that with generous reporting. Sorry,Craig Quatermaine  32:20  it's Craig here. I grew up in Canada in the East Kimberley of Western Australia, you were the first brown guy I ever saw on TV as well, just being an Indigenous Australian, it was just nice to see someone different on that show. That was the only thing we could watch because we had one channel. And for you to go through all this right now. I'm really interested to know that are you surprised that people are shocked that there was racism? in those periods where you're on TV? Isn't that reaction that most amusing part?Kamahl  32:50  Look, racism or prejudice of any kind, you got to be careful if you ever saw the movie South Pacific, you know, we are not born racist that they you know. But I think we have to be carefully taught, and we believe a lot of things that are untrue. You know, we, we as human beings, we grew up believing the earth was flat. It took us years and 1000s of years to find out it is a sphere. And similarly, there are a lot of things. Let's say, you know, in politics and religion, especially religion, there are 4000, or 404 and a half 1000 religions. But there's only one God and I have my own view of what it is. And at the end of the day, what really matters is truth. To be true to yourself, I mean, even if you have to tell a few fibs, but be true to yourself. Hello.Lewis Hobba  33:56  Sorry, we're all just taking a moment to think of ponder your words of wisdom, be honest commodity.Craig Quatermaine  34:01  Iconic, this is a huge part of me that still like I feel like it's an impression. I feel like it's not really you. But yeah. It's just such an iconic voice. It's crazy to be talking to you.Kirsty Webeck  34:13  I was just thinking about all the people have told lately.Dan Ilic  34:18  Come on. Thank you so much for joining us on irrational fear. You've always been a great part of our show from episode one. You.Kamahl  34:28  By the way, by the way, what what do you consider a rational fear? What can I be afraid of?Dan Ilic  34:35  Well, the rat the name irrational fear stems from the idea that media is making are scared of things all the time and often all the wrong things and irrational fear is a name that implies that there is something you should be scared of the media is not talking about, which is what things we talked about on the show, which is mostly climate change. That's the big thing that we talk about.Kamahl  34:54  I mean, I think we should all be afraid of untruth, not the truthUnknown Speaker  34:59  disintermentKamahl  35:01  Yeah, misinformation. Yeah. Anyway, thank you for having me onDan Ilic  35:05  Kemal. It's great to be with you. Do you do you have any? Do you have any shows coming up? You want to plug?Kamahl  35:10  Yeah, in fact, there's kind of an anniversary. Pull up doing like to those two shows one day apart, and it's it's nice to have retired senior citizens. So I'm looking forward to that. I can't tell you exactly what it is. It's two shows. When is it? Two days apart?Dan Ilic  35:34  Excellent. A big thanks to all of our guests for tonight. Craig quartermaine Kirsty werebear. Can Louis harbour Do you guys have anything to play? Craig we get to do any Comedy Festival shows coming up.Craig Quatermaine  35:45  Sorry. Yeah, no, that's the only reason I'm here bro. Cuz I got nothing to plug. No, that's not true. Um Yeah, just keep an eye out. I've got a new show called historically accurate. planed, Earth runs and Sydney runs in Melbourne runs and they've just all come unstuck because the COVID about the show is called historically accurate. It's my latest style. I'm very very happy with it. And yeah, it's that the cow it's gonnaDan Ilic  36:12  watch. Kirsty way back What did you got to plug you've got a few shows coming up?Kirsty Webeck  36:16  I do indeed. So I have a show called Tucker sikhi opening on April 6 in Melbourne for the comedy festival and it's it's 14 shows from the sixth to the 18th and it's on at 6:10pm each night comedy Republic come along. Also follow me on social media I'm really good at it.Unknown Speaker  36:43  I rememberLewis Hobba  36:45  Craig when you came to tazzy with us for Triple J and did some comedy and your clip that you did was so successful that they basically like did they did they take it down aCraig Quatermaine  37:00  million views ABC comedy went under and so did my my video I just I really just got it back.Kamahl  37:06  Yeah, yeah, so I blew up. You're kidding me tucked away if I may and inject something slightly sobered. Are you prepared for it Kaffir come out. These are the few words that sustained Nelson Mandela for 27 years in prison. Its support called Invictus goes something like this out of the night that savage made black test pit from pole to pole. I thank whatever gods may be For my on conquerable. So in the fall, lots of circumstances, I have not went not quite allowed. Under the bludgeoning of chance My head is bloody, but unbowed. Beyond this place of wrath or tears, Looms but the Horror of the shade, and yet the menace of the years finds and shall finally an upgrade. It matters not how strait the gate, how charged with punishments to sprawl. I am the master of my fate. I am the exception, my soul.Dan Ilic  38:22  That was amazing. Thank you so much Kemal. Thank you so much, Craig quartermaine Thank you so much. cosi WebEx, thank you so much, Louis. How about we've got shows the Melbourne Comedy Festival April 11. Big thanks to rode mics, the birther foundation Patreon supporters. The discord crew for Jackson ideas that I had it goes Big thanks to Dave bluestein Kate Holdsworth Killian David. Voiceover this week from Bronwyn Morgan Until next week, there's always something to be scared of. And come out. Do you have a catchphrase? You want to end the show on?Kamahl  38:51  What was that?Dan Ilic  38:53  Why people so IKamahl  38:55  know why so many people are doing. Many people are doing Thank you very much, but Right, right. Until next week, there's always something to be scared of.Dan Ilic  39:08  Good night. Thanks, cabal.Kamahl  39:09  Thank you. A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/ 🎟️ SEE A RATIONAL FEAR AT MELBOURNE INTERNATIONAL COMEDY FESTIVAL: https://www.comedyfestival.com.au/2021/shows/a-rational-fearOn the podcast this week, we talk about the Prime Minister putting journalists on notice for asking questions, Dark Mofo's Big F Up, and BoJo dumping ScoMo via telegram over Australia's lack of action on climate change.We're joined byAmber Schultz (Crikey)Gen Fricker (Melb. Comedy Festival Show Details)Lewis Hobba (Melb. Comedy Festival Show Details)and Dan Ilic (Me) (Melb. Comedy Festival Show Details)  A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/ 🎟️ SEE A RATIONAL FEAR AT MELBOURNE INTERNATIONAL COMEDY FESTIVAL: https://www.comedyfestival.com.au/2021/shows/a-rational-fearOn this week's podcast we hit the UK and Australia's slide into authoritarianism, and ask Steve Keen if Mattias Cormann's appointment to the OECD will mean anything meaningful for climate action globally.Adam Hills 🎟️ (Shoes Half Full)Alex Lee (Dragon Friends) Dan Ilic (A Rational Fear)Lewis Hobba (A Rational Fear)+ Professor Steve Keen. (Patreon) Big thanks to Naaman Zhou who coined this episode's title and the sketch within.https://twitter.com/naamanzhou/status/1372357753503502337  ——————————————TRANSCRIPTION BY A COMPUTER:Unknown Speaker  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by the birth of foundation. Hello Daniel, how are you?Dan Ilic  0:06  I'm well I'm well, I couldn't help but notice before as we come on, Mike, you, you're doing some vaping on the side there. Have you got a vape sponsor? Can you get a vape sponsor for the show? ILewis Hobba  0:16  thought I would get that in just before the cameras started rolling. Yeah, I would say it's my shameful habit. I had no idea that this I was actually walking behind a guy who was smoking today, and I was vaping and he was smoking and he was like five steps in front of me and obviously 10 years behind me, but a few steps in front and he was blowing smoke and it was coming back as always inhaling my vape was inhaling his smoke and I thought, yuckDan Ilic  0:46  Well, it's just one more thing to rag on you about you vapour. It's very exciting. I'm not ragging on our new Patreon supporters, though, because we've got some killer new ones. It's another record another week of seven new Patreon supporters. JOHN Miller, thank you for joining up fright bat became a fright manga Thank you. Oliver Kadett, Chris ebbeling Jason Halladay Brooks Santa Hugh Donaldson, thank you so much for supporting us on Patreon. If you want to support us on Patreon, go to patreon.com forward slash irrational fear. Now we're only a few weeks away from our Melbourne International Comedy Festival show Louis April 11 at the Melbourne Town Hall. I'm really excited about it. I can't wait to get to Melbourne. I can't wait to enjoy the festival.Lewis Hobba  1:25  Yeah, me too. I also saw on one of my weekly forays into Twitter that you are begging for guests, which I always which makes you feel very relaxed about theDan Ilic  1:36  situation. No, that's not that's not true. I was after a suggestion for a big climate change name to join the show and I booked one. We've got Simon Holmes accord joining us he's mega brain on energy and climate. He knows all about the juiciest truth bombs about how Australia is missing out on the it's brand new green energy revolution. So he's going to be our interview guests which is fantastic. That's amazing. Yeah, it's awesome. Sami Shah Alice Fraser, James Colley who is the head writer the weekly and grow and transfer you and I and also Gabby bolt is due on a soundstage to for her only Melbourne show she is going to be an absolute mega star Gabby bolt. So you it's going to be one of those shows. You'll go. Oh, you know, I saw Gabby bouldered an irrational fear at the Melbourne International Comedy Festival back in 2021. Before she became an absolutely massiveLewis Hobba  2:21  Yeah, plus that we can see if we can get some of that homes are caught money on the Patreon.Dan Ilic  2:26  He is a patron subscriber he's a he's a Patreon supporter, so he already doesLewis Hobba  2:31  amazing he goes by Patreon.Dan Ilic  2:33  probably good. For more go to comedy.com Today you look for a rational fee. I'm recording my end of irrational fear on gadigal land. In the eora nation sovereignty was never said we need a treaty. Let's start the show.Unknown Speaker  2:44  A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks cambroUnknown Speaker  2:51  gum, and section 40 ofUnknown Speaker  2:53  our rational fearUnknown Speaker  2:55  recommended listening by immature audience.Dan Ilic  2:58  Tonight Scott Morrison's response to the march for justice was the worst example of public tone deafness since meatloaf played at the AFL Grand Finals. It was so bad that Jenny asked him to imagine if he was a single dad. And for publicly diminishing his reputation Christian Porter announces plans to sue himself for defamation. And another COVID case confirmed in a Sydney quarantine hotel as usual. Melbourne says that we're doing it months ago. It's the 19th of March 2021. I'm spending my last job paper on lollies This is irrational fear.Welcome to irrational fear. I'm your host, former Duke of Edinburgh Dan Ilic. And this is the podcast that takes the week's toughest stories and gives them a big hug. Only if they agree to it. Let's meet our fear mongers for the podcast this week. He's taking some time out from his gruelling hotel quarantine regime of looking out the window. It's Australia's favourite will Anderson look alike. It's Adam Hill.Adam Hills  4:05  Not the hotel quarantine that had a case this week. Just want to point that out.Dan Ilic  4:10  Well, how are you? How have you been spending your time Adam?Adam Hills  4:14  I'm writing a children's book. So that's great most of my time. And being that I'm alone in a hotel room you can imagine what's taking up the rest of my time.Lewis Hobba  4:24  children's book just like where's Wally, but it's one man alone a hotel's theory.Dan Ilic  4:29  There is againAdam Hills  4:31  I'm on my third draft and I'm really worried when I handed in the editors are gonna go well, we got really dark all of a sudden.Lewis Hobba  4:39  Because I write episodes of play school, and, and every now and again, if things are not going well in your life, you can sometimes read a first draft back. I had to do one there was teaching kids how to like ask for help from a doctor that were ever sick. And I read it back. I literally had Humpty Dumpty falling off a wall and screaming in agony that he's shattered his legs Oh, where was I last night like that is Blake Lewis. Anyway, they ran it traumatised kidsDan Ilic  5:06  and she's been busy auditioning for SBS his insight but didn't manage to get the top job what she sabotaged from within it's the feeds Alex Lee.Alex Lee  5:15  Hello and yes, I was I was the perfect hosts. How isDan Ilic  5:22  the Fed going, Alex?Alex Lee  5:23  Great. Yes, just in case for all of your baffled listeners. We made a comedy series about me trying to audition to be the new host of insight and failing miserably and you can watch an SBS on demand.Dan Ilic  5:36  And finally, he's Elaine main. Sorry, he's a lane not main talking machine. It's Louis harbour.Lewis Hobba  5:42  That's very straight. Do you know i speaking of being not main I'm also not lame. I put up I put on 10 kilos in the last year. I'm jacked.Dan Ilic  5:50  So you've gone from looking like you've come out of Belson to looking like you're signed up for chadwicks. That's not too bad for you.Unknown Speaker  5:57  deep knowledge of modelling.Alex Lee  6:00  Writing diet LewisUnknown Speaker  6:03  recommends,Lewis Hobba  6:04  I probably would have put on 20 kilos if it wasn't for the joule.Dan Ilic  6:09  Coming up Maverick economist Professor Steve Cain joins us to talk about Mateus Coleman's appointment to the Secretary General job of the OECD what it means for Australia and climate action. Will we see him use less planes in favour of a chopper. But first, a message from this week's sponsor?Unknown Speaker  6:26  Hi, I'm Nick Fuller. As New South Wales Police Commissioner, I love stripping down with others. But gaining consent can be a confusing process. That's why we've developed a new app to help men with important careers feel safe at night. If individuals have developed relations to a point where undergarments could be heading in a southerly direction, it's important to document the consent of each party before the engagement of horizontal proceedings. Simply take out your service New South Wales app and scroll to the sexual consent form. You and your sexual participants simply tick the boxes for the style and duration of sexual intercourse. Also note if applicable, which private high school participants attended. So we assign the most appropriate legal response should we even need to then simply sign on the screen or use a finger on the fingerprint reader. If one of your participants is too drunk to sign, definitely don't coerce them, or just place their finger on the fingerprint reader. They'll never be able to prove otherwise, then and only then can sexual intercourse proceed at a location of your choice. There is currently a 15 person limit per sexual event per household. But this will relax as COVID rules change. Now, this is important. If any participant changes their mind, it won't be automatically updated by the app. But we're assured by the Boston Consulting Group that this will be addressed in a future upgrade. So when emotions are running high, remember now app no wet. This has been a message from the New South Wales Police. Thank you.Dan Ilic  8:01  Yes, no after no after that line courtesy of the Guardians name. And so I saw it on Twitter and I had to steal it with consent. Of course, there was his tweet, I'll share it in the show notes. Yes, this week's first fear this crazy consent app. Now the start of the day, the New South Wales Police Commissioner was floating this idea about an app to get a whole bunch of people to jump on this app to engage with swapping consent over an app to kind of quell rising sexual assaults. So it's just something that normal, you know, adults would use to swap consent before during the day. But by lunchtime, he was resoundingly made fun of on social media, and the New South Wales, police commissioner McFaul had to retract the idea saying these on radio,Unknown Speaker  8:41  to be honest with you, the app could be the worst idea I have in 2021. But the reality is in five years, perhaps it won't but if you think about dating 10 years ago, this sort of concept of single people swiping left and right was a term that we didn't even know you know,Dan Ilic  8:57  Mick Foley might have appointed I didn't had no idea of consent until he actually floated this whole the idea of an F v mongers. Is this a good idea? Alex?Alex Lee  9:06  I think that was the one correct thing. He said that it was absolutely the most insane idea he could have thought of like, it's the kind of idea that you you know, you might whisper to your wife as you go to sleep and she goes, Okay, that's enough bedtime or like, something you put on the subreddit of shower ideas, but to be the New South Wales Police Commissioner, and to put it out there in the public is so crazy. And it was just, you know, after what has been a really awful few weeks, you know, for women in Australia just to display that level of ignorance about how consent works, how sex works, what the actual issue is, like, it really like bordered on not being funny, despite the many ways that it is hilarious that he said that out loud to peopleDan Ilic  10:00  I just like the constant like, backpedalling he did over the last two, like lunchtime hours on radio. I really enjoyed that. Adam, what do you think?Adam Hills  10:09  I mean, okay, apart from the bass, like there's two ways to approach this the realistic way in the funny way. And the realistic way is, I think, if someone can force you to have sex, then they can force you to consent on an app. If someone's if someone's able to force you to do one thing, they can force you to do another thing. So that takes away the idea of the app being effective in the first place. But secondly, he also said this might be the dumbest idea I have in 2021 as if he's leaving it open for something dumber to happen.Do you know what I mean? He's like, I don't want to call it yet. Because there's a whole bunch of months left in this year. This could go anyway,Alex Lee  10:49  he's gonna come back next month and say, Okay, that was stupid. It was stupid to suggest an app for sexual consent. It's a robot Okay guys, sex robot and you tell the robot at all times whether you want to have sex or not. Okay, that's it. That's the good idea.Lewis Hobba  11:06  It does make you want to sit in with a full a brainstorm session like Alright guys, it's the boys in blue blue sky thinking let's do this thing. What are we getting called? on thinking hansy crush? Who's that? Who's up there?Dan Ilic  11:19  I've done some research on iOS there's nothing like it but Google Playstore is a bit more of a wild west. Let me show you a couple weeks and have a look at some of those reviews. Yes to sex is an app he says check out these reviews out of rubbish I couldn't get past the first page not even select my gender and it is on friendly web keep asking for locations thumbs downLewis Hobba  11:41  you like the bedroom I'm in the bedroom Yeah.Dan Ilic  11:48  Person yes just six yes five stars Rakesh Yes, heLewis Hobba  11:52  was six that's a fun doing it.Alex Lee  11:56  Very looking forward to now I downloaded this app to be getting some sex. Yeah, I've maybe it's like a way for bots. Like there's so many sex bots out there. Maybe yes to six is like a dating site for bots.Lewis Hobba  12:11  And select which images in this square have. You know what I'm talking about?Dan Ilic  12:16  There's even one code only? Yes is yes. And this one actually uses smart contracts. It uses Ethereum blockchain. So anyone with an aetherium account or aetherium will be able to verify how horny all the other people are all around the world at once. Unfortunately,Alex Lee  12:29  anyone with an Ethereum account, has never had sex and never will.Unknown Speaker  12:37  What's your response to the call fleece speechUnknown Speaker  12:39  last nightUnknown Speaker  12:40  I would like to start impeaching has to be given I've got to go in a couple of minutes because I have an international call that I have to attend to irrational fear.Dan Ilic  12:52  This week second fear one of the things people in the UK are known for is their stiff upper lip, you know their grin and bear it attitude. But that is drastically changing. British MPs have voted in favour of a bill that increases police houses for cracking down on power protests that are annoying. Yeah, it's a 307 page bill, which must have been very annoying to read. Other things. It says it's going to do incredible fines for damaging statues, like for three months to 10 years in jail. For instance, police will have the power to tell one person protest to stop shouting and could impose noise limits and have start and finish times for protests as well. It's basically ushering in a whole new era of authoritarianism. You know, when I think of annoying, loud mouth leaders that don't come anymore, more annoying than Boris Johnson, which is ironic. Adam, you live in the UK? How are you taking this?Adam Hills  13:46  This is something I've been following for a while. So when COVID hit, you know, the government brought in a whole bunch of rules, including, you know, how many people could gather publicly, there can't be any more than 30 people, all that kind of stuff. And remember at the time, I think labour, the opposition, Jeremy Corbyn was in opposition and said, Yeah, okay, let's have a time limit on this. let's let's let's not have a law that could go forever, that stops people protesting, and then 12 months down the track, it's kind of come to fruition, but the idea that it's not just if it's annoying, if you inconvenience anyone, if you put someone you know, if you affect someone's ability to go about their business, that's the whole point of a protest. If you're not being annoying in a protest, you're throwing a fate.Dan Ilic  14:32  And some of those extinction rebellion protests for 2019 felt really festive, you know, it felt like they were they were like, you know, it was parade it was Carnival with a existential attitude. Really, it wasAdam Hills  14:45  part of a bigger thing that and this, this happens, you know, this is the thing that happens in times of a pandemic, in times of a crisis, government introduced laws and a lot of those laws aren't lifted at the end of it. Right. And I think we've talked about this on the last leg in London. We've got to our slogan, why Make sure they don't keep the shady shit.Dan Ilic  15:02  Have you seen a lot of examples of where sunset clauses haven't been put in place for loans likeAdam Hills  15:07  this? I mean, there's just little sneaky things like even the fact that, you know, Melbourne went into Melbourne had a five day lockdown, what, three, four weeks ago. They've come out of lockdown, but they're still not allowing international arrivals. Which is why, you know, I know this because I tried to get into Melbourne, and I've got a quarantine in Sydney, because there are no international flights coming into Melbourne at the moment. And it's just a little sneaky. It's not an infringement on people's human rights. But it's just a little sneaky. There's a similar thing going on in China that I read today where the Chinese government has said they will only accept foreign arrivals if they've been vaccinated with the Chinese vaccine.Dan Ilic  15:42  Right? Wow. Well, that's pretty good. I mean, you can get that pretty easily. They just, they knocked off the Pfizer vaccine. So it's cheaper, it's easier to get you just get on Alibaba.Lewis Hobba  15:55  The the I remember when the extinction rebellion protests were happening in the UK, though. That's one thing. I think we actually talked about it on the show, that chief of the Met, came out and complained about a tactic that extinction, extinction rebellion protesters were using when they were getting picked up by the cops. And he made a request that they stopped doing it. And it was that they were going floppy. anytime they grabbed them, they were going there was the head of the man and his name was says Steven something. And essentially, there was a press release saying so Steven has asked you to stop being fluffy. And it was one of the all time great press releases.Alex Lee  16:36  That's a great tactic. My son does that. Like all his limbs tend to liquid if you try and put him in his highchair. I'm gonna ban it. I'm gonna tell him it's against the law now,Dan Ilic  16:47  but in a court of law is going slumping annoying. Is it annoying enough to get 10 years in jail?Lewis Hobba  16:53  I think that there is a box for that on the consent app. If it doesn't work out.Dan Ilic  16:58  Adam, this is pretty interesting. Like, from your perspective, how is all this playing with the current protest at the moment for this poor woman who was abducted by a police officer? Like how how what's the sentiment, like in the UK about these laws being passed? Well, IAdam Hills  17:13  mean, you know, a lot of a lot of this. A lot of this has happened since I've been back in Australia. But I mean, it's, there's a word that's thrown around a lot. And it's one of those ones. It's almost become a marketing advertising term. But I think it still stands it's optics. It's the optics, when a woman is kidnapped and murdered, on the way home walking home in the middle of London, and then a peaceful vigil is held, and the optics are police kneeling on the backs of women who are holding a peaceful vigil about a woman who was murdered by a police officer, you can see how that looks terrible. And I think it's not just in Britain, if you know everything that's going on in Australia this week, with Scott Morrison's dealing with with, you know, claims of rape of sexual harassment and all that kind of stuff. It's it's, it's kind of worldwide. I mean, wasn't it? wasn't his his response to say that we didn't, there are protests happening and we're not shooting anyone. And aren't we great?Dan Ilic  18:08  Yeah, that that's the next thing I want to talk about is isn't that that was such a crazy thing that happened earlier this week. As Monday is 1000s of people and myself included, marched across cities around Australia, all about gendered violence and inequality. Scott Morrison decided to use very loose words in question time noting that the protesters were lucky they lived in Australia because protests in other countries nearby were met with bullets. Talk about kind of lowest common denominator, fear mongers should should women feel grateful that tempt the authorities would piglets, shirting women, Alex?Alex Lee  18:43  It seems like they weren't given that courtesy in the UK in their protests, basically. But no, I mean, it was, it's just sitting low, like you said, the very lowest bar for your government that you are not shooting protesters and then asking for credit for it. And the reason it is that is because he's not doing anything else, like he offered to go and to, for the women to come into his office and meet with him the organisers of the March, and they said, No, like, the very least you can do is come out and see all the women on the street and see what we're asking for. And he wouldn't even do that. And so, you know, all he can give him the only thing he could think of to give his government credit for and the way they've handled this is that they're not shooting people. And you know, that government can mobilise very quickly like I This isn't funny at all, but I you know, I read how after the the sexual assault of Brittany Higgins, the government very quickly moved forward, the date of the cleaning of the of the office that took place in so they so there's evidence of that that they it was due for a clean on Monday, they moved it to a Sunday. Like they can act very quickly if they need to, and if this is the only thing they can do to address this issue that, you know, hundreds of 1000s of women are asking for. It's it's, it's more than depressing.Dan Ilic  20:08  And and when you when you when you said optics before, kind of remind me of that moment, Alex, you just mentioned how he invited the protest organisers into Parliament House. It's almost like he hasn't read any news about the kind of safe space that Parliament House has been for women over the lastUnknown Speaker  20:26  few years. It's like people want to be.Dan Ilic  20:28  Yeah, exactly. Very strange. Louis, has this been the kind of friendly banter you've been doing on drive on Triple J?Lewis Hobba  20:35  Yeah. Right. That was flume. Anyway, feel unsafe, give us a call. Blake, like, you know, obviously, we do a very dumb and silly show on Triple J. And so you know, we keep it pretty dumb and silly. But there are days obviously, where it's very hard to do that you guys would all know that you've all worked in jobs where you get paid to be dumb and silly. And there are days and there are weeks when that feels like you are going counter to the issue or that you are your silliness is I don't know, the wrong noise to be making and this week, it did feel like that to be honest, it was a it was a really it was a really difficult week and to say their response, do you just like oh, that's fine, I'll be silly they're gonna pay attention and then they don't like hire out man like this is it's just it's very, very bleak to say that response and just to say not no movement whatsoever from the people who need to be listening.Alex Lee  21:33  Yeah, I do think it's so I did get a bit of perverse pleasure in reading the tweets from men who went to the march but just wanted to make sure that everyone knew that there were there was a lot of like, just here at the march just in case anyone wanted to know a man at the march and there are a lot of women coming up to me saying thank you for being at the March the march so just keep that in mind everyone.Lewis Hobba  21:57  I really saw quite a lot of people who like mosques in the stories and then the masks off when their photo went on the grid. You can see the wholeAlex Lee  22:11  they should have sought match at the match which is just like a flashing sign that said I'm one of the good onesDan Ilic  22:19  Well, I don't know if you heard the full clip of Scott Morrison question time he said much worse and I'm very surprised the media didn't pick it up.Unknown Speaker  22:25  The Prime Minister asUnknown Speaker  22:27  it is good and right mr. speaker that so many able to gather here in this way whether in our capital or elsewhere, to do so peacefully to express their concerns and their very genuine and real frustrationUnknown Speaker  22:42  This is a vibrant liberal democracy Mr. Speaker not far from here. Such marches even now are being met with bullets not here in this countryUnknown Speaker  22:51  members on both sidesDan Ilic  22:52  now these women or people if we can call them that and I'm asked my team and we can are lucky they went crushed by tanks Mr. Speaker, we have tanks we can do all those fine Phillies marching today. And I'm pretty sure I can say that should count themselves fortunate. We don't send them to offshore detention. Mr. Speaker, we've got plenty of women there shorts against international law, but it's fun. I was quite happy to meet these women in my office in Parliament House, just them with me surrounded by men with guns. There's no safer space. Mr. Speaker, the member for Kingston is warm. I've had empathy training. I could if they wanted me to give them a massage, Mr. Speaker, calm them down, listen to their concerns. And I would have told them like I'm telling you, we all know when it comes to holding an investigation of a member of the National cabinet that Samantha for the states, Mr. Speaker and I would have been quite happy to explain that to those hysterical girls organising them after that today. And I'm definitely sure that's fine to say I've got hysterical girls of my own Mr. Speaker. Just shocking can't believe he said that kind of a labour.Adam Hills  24:05  It's hard to believe that that his original statement came from someone who came from marketing slogan I'm not as bad as Pol Pot isn't.Dan Ilic  24:21  next guest is one of our favourites on irrational fear. He's a maverick economist to tells it like it is I assume because I'm not smart enough to know what he's actually talking about. It's Professor Steve Cain stave Welcome to irrational fear. irrational mode afterSteve Keen  24:34  we're one of those experiencing for the last few months reading economics.Dan Ilic  24:38  I bet I bet Now look, as an economist of regard, you kind of get into these incredible places like the OECD. So I wanted to pick your brain about the Mathias cormann appointment. You know,Lewis Hobba  24:49  can I use my prop in really quickly before you get stuck into ICD and just say that I don't know what the day is.Dan Ilic  24:57  Yeah, so embarrassing, butLewis Hobba  24:59  I just want to just Want to put that out there?Alex Lee  25:01  You know how you find it really hard to focus on talks for long periods of time Louis removed that check. And pretend I made a joke about OCD. Okay.Dan Ilic  25:19  I enjoyed it. Oh, yeah. So let's go back. Let's go back to the bare bones here. What is the OSI OECD and and how is Mateus as Commons appointment? significant?Steve Keen  25:37  Yeah. So the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development was once called the rich man's club had about 20 nations and it mainly America and and Europe. And now it has about 3738 nations. And it's lastly there was quite a progressive Mexican leader, Angel guaira. And he was quite in favour of non orthodox thinking on economics, particularly after the OECD completely fluffed it back in 2007. When in their economic report for to the middle in June 2007. Their chief economist said what a fantastic year 2008 was going to be, which is gonna have an economic recession, it was going to be a book. So after that Angel established what's called the new snake, which stands for new approaches to economic challenges. And that led a lot of progressive thought into the OECD, which is how I managed to get past the past the guards at the gate. And, and, and now, Angel had been there for three terms, 15 years, which is extremely unusual. So they needed a new replacement. And nobody on the planet thought that anybody from Australia had a chance because if any part of the planet is burning, it's burning it up. It's Australia and climate change have become a major focus of the OECD in the last seven the last half, half dozen years. And lo and behold blow was down with with a Saharan wind. Matthias Korman wins the ballot, which was quite remarkable, a tribute to Australia's capacity to play the numbers game. And now a man who's in the playing numbers is leading us in something which is deadly serious, which is the amount of carbon dioxide and other pollutants we're putting into the biosphere. And we've been putting up modly many, many environmental organisations will concern that the OECD is lead on climate change resumed go massively into reverse under corpsman, and now we're gonna find out one way or the other.Dan Ilic  27:39  Now, do you? What's your instinct on this? Do you think corpsman is going to be a good faith actor in the US and push the OECD on climate action? And therefore push Australia to be more progressive on climate action? Or do you think his words are meaningless? And he's just going to play the same game that he's always played?Steve Keen  27:57  categorically? I'd say yes to that question. Sorry. Yeah, I think he's gonna he's gonna stuff the place up. But if you read his statement about it, he talked about how we needed to go guaranteed normal growth, with safeguards for human rights and environmental concerns. And so everything is the environments in the background, forget about that, you know, let's get the growth going first, and the environment could take care of itself, which it will do, it will take care of us as well. So I'm, I'm thinking will push us five badly backwards, and we'll be there. We'll go from leading on the issue to being reactive. So I'm putting me down as a sceptic of him, not climate change.Dan Ilic  28:40  And the OECD, you know, it has this big mandate to promote policies that had some sort of economic and social well being for people all around the world. How powerful are they in terms of shaping what goes into agreements, like what we'll say caught in a few months time? Well, that'sSteve Keen  28:56  the only organisation which has the status of a nation when it goes to the mediflow. cope and so on. So there's, you know, there'll be 40 countries plus the OECD. So it has reallyDan Ilic  29:06  it's got like a nation status.Steve Keen  29:09  Yeah. It's so it gets a seat on the board, which is unusual for an international organisation only they've got to take a backseat and do it in the backroom. The OECD is both in the back room and the front. But frankly, speaking, of course, it's the major countries that carry the the weight of the whole thing so America dominates Germany second, and and China and Russia bringing up the rear. But it does make a difference. If you have an organisation which was enabling non orthodox thought, critical thought about climate change and economics to be heard. And suddenly you've got a guy who's reading from a copy of Samuelson then I think it's a major step backwards.Dan Ilic  29:48  And you actually you've been presenting recently to the OECD and you had a very strange moment where the Australian permanent ambassador to the OECD as soon As you came on the conference calls to talk, decided to take his camera offline. Despite him actually being part of the conversation, he turned his thing turnsSteve Keen  30:09  himself off when I was turned on. Yeah, that was not promising. I was talking about what's called modern monetary theory.Dan Ilic  30:17  I can only guess that he he either either didn't care for you to say or to he really enjoyed what you had to say so much that he had to he needed a bit of privacy. What do you think? It was?Steve Keen  30:29  The Tobin situation angle I haven't heard before and I'm not gonna go anywhere near it. He's, he was quite, he was invited to be discussing to Stephanie Kelton presenting arguments about what's called modern monetary theory that says the state doesn't need to borrow money from the public doesn't need to text to spend, it's got its own capacity to create money. And that's how it finances itself, and so good on him for being a discussant. But if you look at the comments on YouTube, what people had to say there about his comments where I've been pretty spot on, basically, he just trashed everything. Stephanie had to say because he fairly obviously hadn't listened to what she was saying in the first place. He's He's, he's a conventionally he has a PhD in economics. He wrote his he lectured at the A Anu. So he's got all the mainstream credentials that I have been attacking for the last 20 years of books like debunking economics, and I think he is going to basically say, to, to call it to calm and, you know, let's let's get it back on the straight and narrow. Let's go back to the good sound economics. Well, good sound economics got us into the stink in the first place. So I'm not hopeful about where the OC is going to find itself. And I think it's not quite as bad as appointing Donald Trump before a pandemic. But I think it has similarities.Dan Ilic  31:48  Well, I, I'm pretty the way you kind of frame it, I get very kind of despond because he always say for a lot of people is this black box that is so powerful. And yet, you know, there's little we can do about it, when it comes to getting the right people in there to affect the right kind of change. I wonder, like, who are our allies in the OECD in that regard, like who are the who are the champions of climate action in that, in that, in that organisation that we should be kind of followingSteve Keen  32:16  on doubleview group called Naik, which stands for new approaches to economic challenges. That's the that's the progressive element inside the OECD. And then you've got every every country, which is a member, and there are 37 countries, every country has an ambassador, so called. And the ambassadors funnily enough, once they're appointed, they act under the auspices of the OECD, rather than their own countries, so they can't be recalled by their own country, they have to be removed by the OECD itself, there are about half a dozen to a dozen, I think the Irish rep for one is very good, the Mexican rep, there's some people who are supporters of the critical attitude towards what we're doing to the environment. But like most of these organisations, they're very much driven from the top down. And people are very loath to step outside the consensus. So if you get somebody at the top like Coleman, who proves to be somebody who will carry you know, a lump of coal into the, into the proceedings and, and talk about good economic girly men. Then we can see the OECD go quite substantially backwards, all white and say, I've got a feeling the climate might decide to intervene and say, you might not take me seriously, but I do.Dan Ilic  33:29  Yeah, that is the worst situation we could possibly hope. Do you guys have any questions for Steve, before we wrap up?Alex Lee  33:36  I mean, I guess I always think that our Well, you know, Mathias common he was, you know, he is toeing the party line. But this is the point where he's not part of the government anymore. He's acting off his own steam. So like, what is the justification? Do you think for this kind of black rat? fuckery? Like, what's he getting from this? Like? That's what I always want to know, with people like that, like, what's in what's in it for you to destroy the planet like? Yeah, is it just a Cush? Is it just a cushy job for him? Or do you think that there's something else going on?Steve Keen  34:14  Well, it's certainly a cushy job as part of it. I mean, he he is a green mentioned international character, I think was he's Belgian by birth. He speaks about four or five languages. He was in Europe until his early 20s. So he's in that sense, he's an international persona, and that's a strong thing in his favour. Probably a major factor why I think that they put forward anybody else like, Who's that bloke used to be Attorney General Christians, somebody I don't think he would have gone down all that well. But Coleman certainly has a an establishment that says he'd be laughing with you here with me. I think it's a it's a major status thing for himself, relocates him back in Europe. It's all sorts of massive positives of music. First small slide. When it comes to what he's doing, I think most of these people are genuinely sincere. They really believe they're doing the right thing by the by the current climate in what they're doing. And I know economists like William Nordhaus. So I think we'll actually, I hope to see tried for eco side at some stage, given what he's done about climate, but he genuinely believes he's doing good for the climate. Now, Coleman will probably think of imposing economic discipline, and standard rule of law is all that's necessary, and he's doing the right thing. It'll be quite sure he's doing the right thing. So so they actually believe that you know that there's sincerity? I don't question it. But the funny thing is, I had a school teacher once who gave me a great insight of sincerity, we were having a class discussion about some politician fighting like crazy amongst ourselves school, the school days, and one kid pipe gun, or at least he's sincere. And the hospitals here and our teacher who normally just let us run, Riot chirped up and said, Don't override sincerity. The most sincere person you'll ever meet in your life will be the maniac chasing you down the road with an X tronic.Unknown Speaker  36:09  A very big xSteve Keen  36:11  is the biggest x humanity's never seenAdam Hills  36:14  if Alex's question is, what's, what's in it for Mathias cormann? My question is what's in it for the Australian Government?Steve Keen  36:20  That's huge. And I think that's a really important question. Because Australia's been on the nose internationally, it's actually been called out by a couple of international organisations for how badly it's behaved on climate change. And this is a way that the country which is deservedly criticised as the greatest legged on the planet now has a voice at the head of the table. So I've got a feeling that's a major reason why he was in there. And that's why I'm particularly we got to the position, mate, you, you keep us from being under attack.Dan Ilic  36:50  Man, just for a period here, I was really excited about how Australia was the pariah internationally, but like to see that we've now got some cover because of Coleman actually hurts me a little bit. I, I worked at the 2015 cop and I did a show every night about the winners and losers of the cop negotiations in Paris. And Australia was always number one, two or three of world actors at the Yeah, in the negotiations. And so I was one of those things where it's like, well, maybe 2021 maybe this next cop coming will be a little different. And there'll be enough international pressure to turn us into a good actor, but fuck now it seems that that's gonna be harder than ever.Lewis Hobba  37:32  You know, they say about cost in a cab.Unknown Speaker  37:39  They madeDan Ilic  37:42  Thank you, Professor Steve Cain. Really great to have you big thanks to all of our guests. Adam hills, Alex Lee Lewis haba and we got anything to plug Adam you got to plug anything?Adam Hills  37:51  Yeah, go on Melbourne International Comedy Festival coming up and some shows in Canberra in Sydney.Alex Lee  37:56  Alex Lee got some the plug. And my Dungeons and Dragons podcast. Dragon friends is also doing comedy festival but it's sold out. So who cares?Lewis Hobba  38:06  For dragon friends is your beautiful water bottles. Would you like to tell everyone about that?Alex Lee  38:10  Dragon friends, that's freedom a good home and I completely distanced myself from that.Dan Ilic  38:15  Oh, yes, I saw those water bottles on Twitter and I kind of mentioned them on this show. Louis, you got anything to float?Lewis Hobba  38:22  Yes, Dan, a rational fear the live show on the 11th of April at the Melbourne International Comedy Festival.Dan Ilic  38:29  And you've listeners of this show. If you use the code podcast, you get a big discount which is great. Steve Cain, you want to plug your Patreon?Steve Keen  38:37  Yeah, Patreon on patreon.com slash Prof. Steve came to me gasbag about the idiocy of mainstream economics. I'm giving away free software at the end of the month by the way package called Ravel. So have a look at that and see what you think.Dan Ilic  38:52  Not a concern tab. That's an unusual choice. Big thanks to rod Mike's the birth of foundation our Patreon supporters please join us on Patreon so we can keep making this show big thank you to killing David David bluestein, Kate Holdsworth, Rupert Degas and Jacob round on the tepanyaki timeline. Don't forget to come to our Melbourne Comedy Festival shows Until next week, there's always something to be scared of good night. A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/ 🎟️ SEE A RATIONAL FEAR AT MELBOURNE INTERNATIONAL COMEDY FESTIVAL: https://www.comedyfestival.com.au/2021/shows/a-rational-fearOnce a month on A Rational Fear on the podcast feed we present a different kind of show:Greatest Moral Podcast Of Our Generation is a long form conversation with a climate leader from around the world.This month Dan Ilic talks with Ketan Joshi is one of Australia's great thinkers on energy, climate change, politics and technology. This is a great wide ranging chat about all those topics.📝 Bitcoin is a mouth hungry for fossil fuels🐦 Ketan's most underrated tweet from 2020📗 Ketan's book: WindfallLinks mentioned in the climate news:📺 Salla — The Coldest Town in Findland's bid video for the 2034 Olympics: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-olympics-bid-salla/salla-coldest-town-in-finland-to-bid-for-2032-summer-games-idUSKBN29V2I8📺 Brisbane Bid Video for 2038 Winter Olympic Games: https://youtu.be/He0vdIqn_1Y     TRANSCRIPTION FROM A ROBOT: Unknown Speaker  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by the birth of foundation.Dan Ilic  0:04  Hello, Lynn.Linh Do  0:05  Hey Dan. Longtime no chat.Dan Ilic  0:06  I know I know we took a summer break a siesta over summer, but now we are back.Linh Do  0:11  We are back. 2021 still feels like 2022 not gonna lie still working from homeDan Ilic  0:17  not 2022 but 2020 as well, is that what you meant by two?Linh Do  0:22  We actually still in 2021, I had clearly been very optimistic, projecting myself into the future.Dan Ilic  0:27  Now for those who are new around here. This is the greatest moral podcast of our generation. It's a monthly long form chat with leaders on climate action from around the world. It appears right here on the irrational fear feed and this week. I'm very excited about this conversation. Lin you haven't heard or you haven't heard it yet, but I can't wait for you to hear it. It is with mega energy climate nerd technology brain katan Joshi, and he is like my favourite person about climate and the environment and technology on Twitter. Do you follow him?Linh Do  0:58  I do follow him. And I recommend people ask me the question of Oh, how should I engage on climate? I'm always like, so this this guy. This is like how do you follow him? Sometimes he tweets about Norway because he lives there now. But like 90% of the type of climate and like good stuff,Dan Ilic  1:14  that Firstly, I guess we should get the climate news out of the way I'm recording my end of the greatest moral podcast of our generation on gadigal land and the eora nation what whose land are you on?Linh Do  1:23  Lynn wonderland of the well wandering people of the Kulin nation,Dan Ilic  1:26  sovereignty was never ceded. We need a treaty. Let's stop the shop.Unknown Speaker  1:29  Despite global warming. irrational fear is adding a little more hot air with long form discussions with climate leaders. Good.Unknown Speaker  1:42  This is called Don't be afraid the heat waves and drove greatest mass extinction. We're facing a manmade disaster, podcast, climate criminals.Unknown Speaker  1:57  rationUnknown Speaker  1:59  all of this with the global warming and a lot of it's a hoax book, right, a smallUnknown Speaker  2:03  podcast about generation for short, all right,Dan Ilic  2:08  let's get stuck into the climate news. So the last couple of months, I guess there's been a hell of a lot of it. Let's just do some highlights recently, I reckon. Despite everything, the federal government, you know, supporting gas supporting fossil fuels, it looks like they can't even do that properly. I don't know if you've seen this piece by Reuters is a great scathing opinion piece, basically saying Australia's energy policy is in such disarray. While they are trying to support fossil fuels and completely negging on renewables, they haven't even managed to support fossil fuels enough to keep Exxon from closing their oil refinery in altona. In Melbourne 2020. There were non oil refineries in Australia, but now there's only two for the whole country.Linh Do  2:51  COVID really did impact clearly a whole bunch of different sectors. And it's so funny, right? Because we definitely say the Australian Government is one of the biggest supporters of fossil fuels all around the world, to the point where the European Parliament is about to vote on something soon to punish polluters, I a people like Australia, it's, you know, we're being punished for internationally, but back home, still not doing a good job. AndDan Ilic  3:11  that's incredible. And you know, who's next after the EU, apparently, Japan is going to import is going to be doing some climate tariffs work as well. But of course, it is a bit more of a tension there because Japan is a much bigger trading partner with Australia than than the EU is But still, to have the EU, implement tariffs and then Japan implement tariffs. And Kerry is now talking about implementing tariffs from the United States. So all of our biggest trading partners are going to be punishing us for not acting on climate.Linh Do  3:40  We're so wedged in that we're not even quite in a corner anymore. And we're not even really in the picture in the game, you've essentially got the four biggest economies in the world saying, Hey, we're gonna do stuff on climate businesses that operate here, we're going to respond, what are you doing Australia?Dan Ilic  3:53  You may remember Around this time, last year, there was going to be talk about a gas powered recovery from COVID. And things like that. Well, let me tell you, the a mo the organisation that basically is the industry body for running the energy in Australia ran a workshop with a whole bunch of stakeholders floating how a gas powered by gas, lead recovery is going to work. And it turns out that half of the stakeholders described it as completely not useful. Which is extraordinary to see. So you know, this, it's so interesting to see how the government has come through and said, We want to do this gas powered recovery. But the industry's like, Nah, that's really shit idea. We're not gonna do any of that.Linh Do  4:36  Well, when your normal friends aren't even willing to back You're right. I recommend you can't keep calling them your friends anymore. And we definitely are saying it's the biggest owners of fossil fuel. So like a GL and whatnot, some of the finance, like none of them want to touch any of these projects.Dan Ilic  4:50  Yeah, it's really interesting, like two thirds of the participants in the AMA said that they would prefer to do make Australia a hydrogen superpower and that's pretty exciting, too. Know, the industry is like more buoyant about climate action than the government is.Linh Do  5:06  Yep. The Australian Federal Government has more than one pickle to deal with at the moment. Hey, so maybe they are slowly going to be so wedged in that they're gonna have to start responding. WasDan Ilic  5:14  that a pun Lin? were you telling you, it took me about a certain kind of pickles is a small one. Excellent. Last month at the National Press Club, the pm actually stated a preference for a movement to 2050 target. insiders next week, Catherine Murphy said that she totally believes that scomo would love a net zero by 2050 target. But and he would totally sign the liberals up if it weren't for the National Party. Apparently Canada enjoys a holding him back. And it's so strange to see like if the liberals and the coalition take those people away from from their party and they do sign up to a net zero 50 target then that would almost be more progressive on climate than labour. It's so it's kind of it's this strange games like labour does want to show their cards and be aggressive on climate because they'll get attacked by the coalition. But the coalition deep down I've only got like three or four troublemakers that are holding the rest of the party ransom.Linh Do  6:06  Again, you think that as Prime Minister of Australia, you might be able to do something on climate but it's clear that this like coalition that they've got going on is it's still a coalition. Each house feels like strange bedfellows at this moment in time.Dan Ilic  6:18  I don't know if you saw this story, and New Zealand's chief environment advisor has said that we need to up the ticket prices for New Zealand flights to prevent tourists from coming to New Zealand.Linh Do  6:28  When he first saw the headlines, I couldn't tell if it was some sort of nimbyism and some sort of luck. We've like sorted out COVID no one come here. But then I read the details. I was like, ah, interesting. It's actually a really good step, I think and it helps embed some of the learnings that we've had over COVID. Right. The Travelling is a privilege, not a right. And if it's a privilege, how do we actually pay for it when most of the world never get to fly anywhere?Dan Ilic  6:50  I mean, it's pretty interesting that they have this chief environment and advice for a New Zealand the cool quote is controversial though it may be I'm in favour of putting off some people from coming to New Zealand. I just don't believe the idea that the number of international visitors to New Zealand can grow and grow and grow without limits. I just don't believe that it's credible. All right. So if a higher price for the privilege of flying to New Zealand, put some people off good.Linh Do  7:12  I reckon that makes sense. Because you know, what if travel is now all about experiences, and all of that sort of stuff, the more rare and precious you can make something like the more people want to be instagramming about it. So if there's not a million Instagram photos from New Zealand, but only a couple of 100,000 they just gonna get far more traction. I'm all for this idea.Dan Ilic  7:30  And Lin Brisbane might have some stiff competition for the 32 Olympic Summer Games.Linh Do  7:35  That's right. And I'm pretty keen to head to Finland, not just for Santa Claus, but also the coldest town in Finland. A pretty cold country is keen to harness the 2032 not Winter Olympics, but Summer Olympics because you know, climate change is heating the world up.Dan Ilic  7:48  Here's a little taste of there being video.Unknown Speaker  7:54  Coming soon,Unknown Speaker  7:55  what a great video. IDan Ilic  7:56  mean, they did show volleyball beach volleyball being played in the snow, do you think there'll be ready in time to get rid of that snow for the 2032 Olympics?Linh Do  8:04  pretty optimistic. What's the difference between snow and sad, you know, small little particles, I can say if we don't tackle climate action, Finland, they're going to be the hearts of the next Olympics.Dan Ilic  8:14  You know, it's really interesting, rational fear we made a sketch, like 2014 remember when Sochi hairyLinh Do  8:21  head of the timeDan Ilic  8:23  derivative in Sochi held the Winter Olympics and they ran out of snow in Russia. Like import they like would stockpiling snow for four weeks before and then they would try to make snow but they couldn't get enough snow. Anyway, so are we at irrational fear. We made a video for Queensland holding the 2038 nuclear winter games.Linh Do  8:46  You're basically your profit. The International Olympic commission should bring you on board as a staff member they should do away with their voting system and just have to predict where it will the Olympics will be held in the future.Dan Ilic  8:58  You don't want to do I'm going to fly in the video sketch to the end of the interview with Qatar joshy. So you'll you'll hear it in the podcast but also I'll add the link in the show notes so you can watch it later. Right now though, I'm gonna play you my conversation with Qatar Joshi.Unknown Speaker  9:11  You're listening to the greatest moral podcast about generation.Dan Ilic  9:17  Our next guest on the greatest moral podcast of our generation is one of the most gifted science communicators that we have in Australian media. crotons writing is funny, sad, and it cuts through with clarity. He doesn't mince words, and he never misses his targets, of which there are many. And I hope we get to talk about all of his targets on this podcast. It could turn joshy Hello, Tom, thanks for joining us on the greatest moral podcast of our generation.Ketan Joshi  9:41  Hi, it's good to be here. Yes, we will just list all of my enemiesDan Ilic  9:46  one by one. Let's start off with we started off withKetan Joshi  9:51  That's a hard one. If you want to talk about what I've been reading about over the past few days showDan Ilic  9:56  Yeah. What have you been reading about?Ketan Joshi  9:58  Um, I've been reading about Bitcoin.Dan Ilic  10:02  I'm so glad I'm so glad you brought this up because I want to ask you questions about NF T's and how artists are going to ultimately destroy the Earth.Ketan Joshi  10:13  Okay, so do you want for your listeners? Do you want like a rundown of what the basics of this whole thing?Dan Ilic  10:18  Yes plays. This is one of the one of the topics I wanted to pick your brain about. Because let me just let me just kind of flag with you. I have been dabbling in NF T's I've been trying to buy artwork from Australian comedians. And I've lost about 200 bucks plugging money into Ethereum wallets, and then trying to get a theory and wallets to connect with platforms to buy NF T's and it just hasn't worked. But I've been thinking about, as, I don't know, if you realise this kitten, but when you've got a podcast about climate change, it's not incredibly profitable. So I've been trying to figure out ways to take the sketches we do an irrational fear and monetize them with ease. At the same time fully realising the irony, the irony that I could be making things worse for the planet. So please enlighten me as to what the hell is going on with NF T's and intellectual property and how that intersects with climate change.Ketan Joshi  11:15  Yeah, okay. So there's a lot of like, this is actually a little bit like climate change in that there's people trying to explain it through through analogies and metaphors, I'm going to try and avoid that because you know, it get you kind of, you just end up swimming around in like, you know, mixed metaphors. And it's very confusing and scary, basically, the way I've always understood, so I so just a bit of background, I used to work at the CSI role, specifically in the data science part of the business called Data 61. So we did, we actually did a bit of stuff on blockchain technology, and its various uses. And it's described as a distributed ledger, which is basically imagine you've got an Excel spreadsheet on your computer. Imagine that that spreadsheet replicates across 1000 100,000 computers at the same time. So if you put the word pou into a cell in your Excel spreadsheet, that would who appears in 100,000, other copies instantaneously, right?Dan Ilic  12:11  Oh, so it's just like Twitter, great.Ketan Joshi  12:14  That is distributed ledger. So it is, it is a pretty fancy way of doing especially and because copy of it is replicated across so many things, then if one person makes a change to it, then it's sort of copied across. So with that means there's a high level of trust in this, there's no single authority that you sort of have to rely on. Now, Bitcoin sort of operates on similar technology, right? You have this distributed ledger, but what you do is they've taken that technology and tried to make a currency out of it, that means you have to have something, some challenge to get value from this currency, you can't just kind of randomly distribute imaginary tokens of currency. So what they came up with is, well, what we'll do is create a process that is incredibly hard. And by making it so difficult, what happens is it takes some amount of work to acquire one of these coins, a Bitcoin, and it's called proof of work. That's the name of it. That's the name of the technology. And the best way I've seen it described is, imagine if keeping your car idling 24 seven, solved, the imaginary Sudoku is that you can exchange for heroin.Dan Ilic  13:29  So you said you were gonna get into metaphors. But that is a very accurate metaphor, I enjoy that.Ketan Joshi  13:35  It is my one loud metaphor. And I'm gonna spend it on that one on that tweet, because it was fantastic. So basically, to win a Bitcoin, you have to generate as many random numbers as you possibly can, it takes a lot of computational power. And that amount of computational power increases, because you need to actually have a balance between who is winning this currency who's winning these tokens, and the amount of computational power that's in the system, which means the system actually adapts as you get more and more computational power, which means basically, bring it all together, it takes more and more energy to get the next coin. Yeah. And so what you end up with is the situation in, you know, all of this sort of technology aside, you end up with this reality of you have these vast, vast quantities of server farms, sitting there just like buzzing with noise and hate just spinning out as many random nodes as they possibly can to get as much of this currency as they can. So it's called mining, they call it Bitcoin mining. And so when you see things like Bitcoin consumes as much energy as this particular country, it's because it does, like it takes that much literal, physical electrical power to run these computers to generate these transactions. Every time new coins are discovered. It takes even more How to get to the next point, right? A bit more. Yes, yeah. And so all of these dynamics, I'm simplifying, because I'm simplifying all of these dynamics very, very heavily. But the basic consequence is that by design, proof of work, and Bitcoin requires a lot of energy. So if you want to change that, if you want to change it from requiring a huge amount of energy to requiring not much energy to change the design, and actually there are people working on this, right. So there are different ways you can prove, you could introduce difficulty without having the difficulty being that you just consume ludicrous quantities of energy, right? You can have other forms of difficulty, right? There's different types of these things called proof of stake, for instance. So how many bitcoins that someone already have in their virtual wallet or something like that, right? reading into these, there's actually some hope, essentially, that you can have these things, not consuming world melting amounts of energy.Dan Ilic  15:55  So what you're saying is that we could possibly fund this podcast by selling bits of it, and also not destroy the Earth at the same time.Ketan Joshi  16:04  Yeah, so so it just that brings it back to what you were describing earlier, which has been described as like crypto art or non fungible tokens or NF T's very inaccessible names, basically, it's generating the serial number of a unique piece of work. So it can be a tweet, or it can be a piece of art or whatever. And that serial number is stored on a blockchain right, which means it's, it's on that spreadsheet that's replicating across a trillion billion different computers, which means when as soon as you generate it, you put you put the serial number you put this tweet is owned by Tom joshy, he paid 100 bucks for it. It's this sort of very highly trustable system, right? Which is, which is pretty good, right? Like this is something that is obviously a lot of value to artists is to have a more discreet, like almost like copyrightable sense of ownership for the art that they create,Dan Ilic  16:55  to deal in the digital space where you create something and it goes up and you hope it goes viral. But there's no monetary gain from anything. Speaking as someone who has gone viral so many times if I had one cent for every time I've gone viral, absolutely be able to buy a new car. ButKetan Joshi  17:13  yeah, I mean, this is what people have been trying to do with like, you know, when you see a viral tweet on Twitter, and below it, someone's written like, you know, here's my SoundCloud or whatever, like, please send me some cash. Like they'll put the code off the link there and say, can you please just help fund my you know, getting through university?Dan Ilic  17:30  Whatever Katon? I don't know, if you realise you are. You're just outlining my business plan. So that's exactly what we do on irrational fear. We will we will go viral. Usually, this is this is no, this is no secret to irrational fear listeners. But we will create a sketch put it up on Twitter and I will write who made this. And then right underneath it, I made this subscribe to the podcast.Ketan Joshi  17:57  So this is a real source of frustration. And like Bitcoin, it raises this fundamental question. And it's not it's not limited to Bitcoin, it's actually something that the whole energy and climate world is facing. right at this moment, which is basically is this worth it, is what we're doing worth it. So is the value that you get from copywriting. And paying for a piece of art worth the X number of kilowatt hours that was required to process this transaction. And crypto operates on a slightly different system to Bitcoin. It has the same fundamental sort of proof of work system, but it's slightly more efficient. Because you're not playing this random number game. It's actually it's actually going through this process where a whole bunch of different transactions get bundled, bundled together, it's still relatively high consuming, right, like it's still a relative decent amount of energy. And I was just looking at this one chart this morning from this website called Digi economist, and they look at the power consumption for the thing that runs crypto on NF T's which is called aetherium. Yeah, and it's it's still pretty high, you know, it's not quite as high as Bitcoin. But, you know, like that, there is still sort of some options for bringing that down. Yeah. But fundamentally, there is still this really, like almost really hard to solve problem underneath at all, which is that it requires a lot of energy. And of course, the problem with consuming a lot of energy is that we live in a fossil fuel world, predominantly fossil fueled world. Yeah. And to consume a lot of energy. You just have to consume a lot of fossil fuels.Dan Ilic  19:32  Yeah, I've seen so many, countless numbers of vice documentaries about warehouses in China and, and orders crammed with AMD RISC chips that are all like mining Bitcoin. And there's like dude with their shirts off like plugging like plugging cables here and there. And then and then there's on the other side in rich countries like Iceland. You see these, these stories about Bitcoin factories that are built in Iceland in real Cold air is to use the natural cooling of the of the environment to to mine Bitcoin and using geothermal technology to kind of power these, these Bitcoin mining factories, but it's such a, it's it's such a headache like you're just like, you know, you, you think one thing is going to save the planet but ended up just completely destroying it.Ketan Joshi  20:23  This is this is why this is why I kind of got sucked into it a bit because there's actually nothing really like it. There's nothing where the ratio between how much energy it consumes. And to be honest, it doesn't really seem to have clear societal benefits, right?Dan Ilic  20:40  Yeah, you've got all these or you got all these like blockchain edge Lords who were talking about how Oh, you know, we're only at 00 point 3% of what we've explored with blockchain. I think it's gonna have exponential growth. I'm like, well, that's so much more energyKetan Joshi  20:56  efficient thing. Good.Dan Ilic  20:58  Yeah, it doesn't seem seem good.Ketan Joshi  20:59  Yeah. Well, it's actually worth mentioning the the renewable versus fossil energy thing, because something you hear a lot is basically, that Bitcoin miners will hunt out the cheapest and most surplus energy, right. So, of course, you know, renewable energy has gotten a lot cheaper over the past decade, wind and solar in particular. But what we're actually seeing is that there isn't surplus wind and solar, wind and solar being deployed and very carefully managed ways around the world, such that they do what they're meant to do, which is displace fossil fuels, instead of just sort of feeling this like rising addition of Bitcoin mining demand, and then leaving the fossil fuel system as it is like, that's not a good thing. That's not a good outcome. Yeah. And so what they're actually drawn to is hydro, in particular. And in China, what you find is that there are hydro assets that aren't particularly well interconnected into other parts of China, which means they have potential output, if so, reservoirs that are sort of like full Yeah, that they could never, they could never really set that could that is way more than local demand, right? So the logic of Bitcoin miners as well, we kind of just, you know, we like, flow into those into those bits of surplus and consume that. So, you know, it's like, it's not really changing the situation at all. And it's not quite how that manifests in the real world. Yeah, because what is happening is that every part of the renewable energy world that is like stranded or surplus, what we're finding is that we actually need to connect it up to the world to start displacing fossil fuels. I mean, China is a particularly great example of where there's a lot of coal happening. So those renewable assets need to be going towards displacing fossil fuels. So if they're stranded, that's not a good thing. And to lock them into being stranded by saying, we'll give you a revenue stream, from your surplus from from mining Bitcoin is basically diverting that action to link it all together, to start pushing down on fossil fuels. Yeah, that's not a good thing. And then, on top of that, this is whole push within the Bitcoin mining community to actually specifically use fossil fuels so actively and consciously seek out fossil fuel mining operations, so so oil and gas, and to say, well, you guys, through the process of extracting oil and gas from the ground, you get this thing where methane leaks from these sites, right. So what they do is either they just let it let me think seep into the atmosphere, which is extremely bad. Or they burn it off, which is slightly less bad. This is all in the process of extracting fossil fuels, which eventually get burned. What is the logic in actively seeking out fossil fuels in that case, so So what they're saying is like, well, because all of this waste product, all of this waste me, young, these mining sites will either be released or burned, we may as well just burn that burn that waste to mine Bitcoin. So fine, you can see these videos, and it's not a secret, you know, they're very sort of open about it. You see these videos of like these shipping containers at oil and gas fields. And they'll just slowly pan the camera around from like, you know, this sort of classic like oil drilling thing, you know, they've got like the big weight on one end. Yeah. And they'll pan they'll pan around from that oil drilling thing to this shipping container that's buzzing, you know, like, like, it's full of Hornets. And it's full of like LED lights. And it's a little seven farm that's mining Bitcoin, because they're taking the gas, but they're still burning gas. And, yeah, when you burn gas it creates it creates greenhouse gas emissions. So the net impact of what they're doing is, it's either nothing or it's worse because when you look at the websites of these companies, they're like, Look, we're actually doing this to help the optics of the fossil fuel industry, the venting and flaring problem of methane at these sites has been under has been the subject of criticism for a long time. In you know, Biden's administration, the US is like we have to crack down on all these like waste methane issues at these sites. So the Bitcoin miners come in and they're like, don't worry about the waste. Just burn you can just burn the fossil fuel to mine Bitcoin and it's actually an environmental benefit.Dan Ilic  25:27  Has anyone? Is anyone seriously trading off that though? Is anyone seriously putting that in a press release saying that, you know, hey, you know, where the where the do Gooding oil company that's flaring off our methane to mine Bitcoin?Ketan Joshi  25:40  Yeah, it's not just the companies that are sort of, you know, offering this as a pathway but like the, like these massive giants like Ecuador. So, you know, Ecuador being the state owned oil company here in Norway, where I live. They, they have been investing in this because they're like, we're actually we're actually solving the problem.Dan Ilic  26:04  I never thought I never thought I'd say this, but I can next year I will heading out to election i can i can just say Scott Morrison saying we're going to have a Bitcoin led recovery. A blockchain lead recovery.Ketan Joshi  26:15  Oh my god. Yeah. So I mean, actually, you know, they're actually awesome. I saw a tweet yesterday like another another Norwegian oil and gas company announced their intention to sort of invest in Bitcoin not not specifically using methane to generate it, but to just did they taking the cash that they have, and just investing in Bitcoin, with some weird promises about using stranded renewable energy assets, but no clarity on what they mean. Yeah. And someone you know, someone tweeted at like all the Australian oil and gas companies like Woodside HCl and origin being like, Hey, guys, why aren't you doing? This is a great idea. So so to bring it all together? Yeah, basically, what I've been been finding out is that, first of all, it contains a lot of energy. I think people sort of know this, like they've seen it in articles, you know, they've read about all the comparisons. That's a little mystery. But with Bitcoin mining, in particular, there seems to be this like energy pushing them towards fossil fuels. And it's because what they are drawn towards is not zero emissions power, they are drawn towards cheap stranded power. And oil and gas mining operations actually fit that bill really nicely. Demand for fossil fuels is going to decrease very significantly. And so if these Bitcoin miners step up and say, well, don't worry about all the, you know, people not wanting your fossil fuels, will take them, the price of those fossil fuels will drop very significantly due to due to the fall in demand. And they will probably be there to be like, well, don't worry about your coal mine, your gas mine, your oil extraction thing, we'll just take that energy that you're extracting, and use it to mine Bitcoin. And they can kind of say, Well, you know, they'll sort of like frame it in this like tortured logic of, we're actually doing an environmental benefit. But really, they're monetizing the this sort of side this like waste stream from the fossil fuel industry. So anyway, I've written a sort of very long post about this, because I think it's actually a very nice summary of a relatively important debate that we're all having, which is like, how do we manage energy? You know, do we live in like a high energy world, low energy world who gets it? How do we connect up renewable energy? How do we figure out what to do with fossil fuel companies? Like do we congratulate them if they're doing something that sounds vaguely like it's environmentally beneficial? Or do we remain critical of them? All these questions are really big and important. I'll publish that pace. Probably later this week. I'm not sure when this podcast will go out. But if anyone wants to read three to 4000 word, rant for me about this. I don't know why you would want to, then yeah, it'll be published soon, we'll be able to buy it an open seat on IO as a nifty question. Yeah, I mean, the crypto art thing as well is is an interesting cultural comparison, because Bitcoin is just full of libertarians. Yeah. You know, plenty of whom are not particularly influential types are right. Yes. Yeah. And so well, yeah. And also, you know, also not particularly open minded towards, like collective climate action and like government regulation, fossil fuel companies and things like that. But then, like, the art community is very, very different. You know, like, it's really, of course, it's a lot of environmentally conscious people, people who you would sort of think are a lot more into like climate action and environmental justice and things like that. And of course, you see a very different reaction. Now you see a lot of backlash from with In the arts community against the sort of like, I guess, the excesses of this, but then there's also a lot of people who are like, well, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Because if we can really bring the energy consumption down, the concept is really sound and really beneficial for a lot of people who would like to get paid for the stuff that they're doing. So there is some work, you know, to try and rescue I guess, to try and cleave it away from the Bitcoin libertarian world and into this like, basically like a useful technological tool to help artists get paid.Dan Ilic  30:33  I think that's where that's where I am right now, as I create, I like thinking like, you know, how, how do we use this to get paid, but how do we also not not destroy the Earth at the same time? I think it's really interesting that you kind of mentioned that, that the oil industry, the fossil fuel industry, are using Bitcoin as a delay tactic, considering they are the kings of delay tactics and your your book in your book windfall. It's just, it's just like 400 pages of delay tactics. I think I think that some, I think one of the one of the things I love about your writing patterns, is just how clear it is, and how often you return back to first principles all the time, I really appreciate that. Like, I think you whenever you talk about coal, you kind of talk about it, how it's just the sunlight trapped in a rock, or you're always talking about climate change, about how the government is slowly trying to kill its citizens. And one of my favourite motifs is an idea how you, you kind of return to again and again and again about how it's just a handful of powerful individuals that are responsible for the position that we're in. And one of the things one of the, my, my favourite senators in the book is about house when you're articulating Australia's last decade of climate action, and he said it was squashed into the boot of a callous few lately protecting their own manufactured realities. It's such a when you when you kind of write like that. And when you return back to first principles, the obfuscation kind of floats away. And you're kind of left with this bare naked truth as to kind of the position we're in and the absurdity that the Australian Government is in is in, in particular, where what have you learned by moving to Oslo? And looking back at Australia?Ketan Joshi  32:17  Yeah, this is this is something I've been thinking about a lot recently, because what is happening this year is this global environment, this like sort of global climate meeting in November called cop 26. Conference of Parties, it was meant to be the it's the sort of the five year check in. And it was meant to be last year 2020, obviously, delayed due to COVID-19. It may not even happen this year, if if the vaccination stuff goes slowly. So that means that the whole world kind of stands up in their podiums and says, Well, this is where we're at with climate change. And so that means Australia also stands up and says, this is where we're at, we're checking in, it's been five years, six years since the Paris Agreement started. And that means the sort of trapped world that every country has been living in, you know, looking at their own climate politics.Dan Ilic  33:16  What are you trying to say every country has their own version of the camera bubble?Ketan Joshi  33:20  Is that what you're trying to say? Yeah, basically, essentially, yeah, this is something else that's actually become very clear is that as I have existed Australia's timezone, it's actually pretty tough to get people to think about different countries, when they're when they're really sort of into their own in their own particular area. I mean, maybe I think maybe America might be the worst offender of this, because they sort of, there's a lot of things that happen in there that they treat is like the first time that it'sUnknown Speaker  33:46  like, no, no.Ketan Joshi  33:48  Many of these things have happened elsewhere.Dan Ilic  33:50  Yeah. And the matrix is early in the metric systems, the big one there, I think.Ketan Joshi  33:54  Yeah, absolutely. But what what Australia is going to is finding out this year and what we'll what we're only at the very start of, and will become more intense as the year goes on, is that a lot of things have become saturated, and because they're saturated, people get people lose their sensitivity to how bad and horrific The situation is. So to give you an example, in the UK, in the past few weeks, this coal mine that was proposed is called Cumbria. And it's like this. On the scale of UK is coal mines. It's it's relatively big, right? Because coal mining in the UK has declined over the over the past century, to almost nothing. There's a couple of really small ones. And of course, coal fired power generation in the UK has also declined to almost nothing. It is functionally no longer really playing a role on the grid in the UK. This coal mine has been proposed. It's an underground coal mine. I was looking at the discourse around it, and it's Intense right like this, the local council, the UK Government, climate activists, investors, the debate on this one Coal Mine is just like this really, really launched focus. And I was looking at it and I was like, hmm, Gee, I wonder how that coal mine compares to like Australia's current, like list of planned coal mines, so nonoperational coal mines in Australia, but the ones that are sort of at various stages of like, you know, getting towards operation, and I put it onto this chart, which is basically looking at the number of mega tonnes of output of coal per year from each coal mine,Dan Ilic  35:39  will I need to get it? Well, I need to get a skew bag for the rest of the Senate.Ketan Joshi  35:45  Well, I'll try not to describe it too vividly. But basically, it's like this tiny little red dot and like Australia's planned coal mines, several orders of magnitude greater. I found that really stunning, right? Because it's not like the level of outrage and emotion within Australia's leadership within political circles is is equivalently larger than the level of outrage at this one tiny planned coal mine in the UK? And of course, like, the reason is obvious, right? Is because that plant coal mine in the UK is new. It's like a new unfamiliar thing for UK people to go, Oh, my God, a coal mine. Are you kidding me? Like, why? Why are we building a coal mine? That's bonkers. Like we, you know, we're holding, we're hosting cop 26 at the end of the year, and you're building a damn coal mine. And then, you know, you look at Australia. You know, just to give one single example, though, is this amazing? This is amazing court case being brought against the Australian Federal Government, on the grounds that expanding a coal mine, expanding a planned coal mine. And just the expansion of this coal mine dwarfs the magnitude of this coal mine in the UK. And, and like, that got some attention that this court case being brought by a group of teenagers, but it didn't get anywhere near the magnitude of attention that the Cumbria Coal Mine is getting in the UK, and its saturation, right? Like, it's just like this, you know, it's not like people don't care. It's just that if they were to care by the same order of magnitude, then they wouldn't be able to function as human beings, right? Like the like, you just you would be so overwhelmed by how much you should care about, about like the production line of new coal in Australia. Yeah. And the other thing that's worth noting is that this production line of new coal extraction in Australia, is globally very, very significant. There was this report last year from the International Energy Agency that looked at the coal production in different countries. And they're like, Look, there's a few countries in the world that are just going to be the engine of new coal production in coming years. And Australia is one of them. There's other countries like Indonesia, actually, Germany is up there, as well, because Germany really seems to be big on coal mining is a couple of others. I can't quite recall from the report, but Australia is basically a key player. Right? And oh, and sorry, of course, China, it but China uses a lot of the coal that it produces, right? It's not a big net exporter. Australia is one of the countries that actually supplies it to elsewhere in the world. So that is really the sort of the key thing that I felt looking back on Australia, because it's this barrage, this daily barrage over new things, that because it obviously becomes extremely difficult to maintain outrage about because it's just so proportional II, massive in Australia, and compared to other countries where, like the UK, for instance, where the horrific stuff still happens, but it happens more frequently, which means which lets you have the emotional capacity to go, oh my god, and you call mine and talk about this. Whereas in Australia, you get this phenomenon where like with coal mining, for instance, you kind of have to concentrate all of your feelings onto one symbolic example, like the Carmichael coal Adani, coal mine, Donnie.Unknown Speaker  39:13  Yeah, yeah.Ketan Joshi  39:14  Yeah, it's like the only way you can emotionally manage because if you were to spread it equally across all the coal mines planned in Australia, you would never have the you would melt into a puddle. The brain capacity. Yes. Yeah.Dan Ilic  39:27  It's one of those things like to communicate it you need just like a very simple emoji and the stopper Danny thing really symbolises that and even though stop Danny's actually stopped everything happening in the Galilee basin. That's kind of that's kind of in the Galilee basin is filled with hundreds of cold coal companies all vying for the coal underneath underneath the Galilee basin. Yeah, Ben Adani is the easiest Danny's like this Dinis, like the signpost that we all rally behind and even when they change the name to bribe us, we still you stop it down because I don't know, IKetan Joshi  40:00  just use the all of the wrong things that are done in the past. I treat them as a completely new company. So that's basically why I write the way I do in a sense, because I, because I always want to. I want to try and describe things in a slightly different or literal way. We often rely on shorthand to talk about this topic, because of course, like it's just a, it's just a weird new complex sciency, you know, economic like, Techno political thing. Yeah. So if sometimes you just sort of read describe what you're talking about in a slightly different way, then it just resets that emotional exhaustion,Dan Ilic  40:43  it almost makes it sound, you know, climate action, and going carbon neutral sound completely achievable as well. Like, I think one of the one of the things you constantly mentioned in your book is, is like you re, you return to again, and again, is saying that no, even if one molecule of co2 equivalent is stays in the ground, that's great. You know, like, when you when you put it down, when you put it as my noodle is that you like, Oh, yeah, shit, yeah, that's what this is all about. It's about keeping the stuff in the ground,Ketan Joshi  41:12  that sort of links it back to renewable energy in my own advocacy of renewable energy, because we can confirm that, you know, grids are finite. Like, if you if you have 100, people demanding electricity, and then you know, 50 of those people get it from wind and solar, whereas they otherwise would have got it from coal and gas, then that's an emissions reduction, we can confirm that this, oddly enough, was actually almost controversial last decade, like this is something you know, wind and solar were kind of treated as like a sideshow of like, Oh, you know, they're there. But they're generating so randomly that we don't really know they're there, whether they're reducing emissions a lot. It's kindDan Ilic  41:50  of strange. Like, I feel like there's a couple of conversations happening at different levels of government in Australia with that is still the case, like in federal government, you have a whole bunch of right wing conservatives who who kind of have that same, it's still that same dialogue, that same conversation, whereas a lot of other conservatives are kind of kind of on the renewables train at a state level. And you kind of see the shift in mode in conversation, the main, if you will, that renewables aren't reliable is kind of disappearing.Ketan Joshi  42:23  Yeah, I split it in the book, I split it into three sort of categories, right. One is price. One is like grid security or reliability, and the other is emissions. And so it's just been this three pronged fight to prove that, like, renewables can perform those three functions. And so, in each of those three, the balance of discourse has been in exactly the wrong direction. Like you had this, like, you, I'm sure, you know, your listeners will recognise this is like whole decade of like, renewables are too expensive, that no one can afford them. And of course, what we what we're discovering now is that the majority of price falls and electricity prices in Australia, I'd usually to renewablesDan Ilic  43:03  renewable energy. Yeah,Ketan Joshi  43:05  won't last forever, of course, but it's actually it's pretty damn good that that's happening. The next thing has been grid reliability. You know, South Australia had its blackout. And then suddenly, everyone was like, Oh, see, you know, wind and solar cause blackouts. And now we're realising that strong to this one.Dan Ilic  43:20  This was really fascinating. In your book, you spent a lot of time dissecting the 2016 blackout in South Australia, why did you just disband? Why did you decide to spend so many pages dissecting? What was it five seconds of grid problems in Australia?Ketan Joshi  43:37  My long suffering editor actually convinced me to pare that down the book actually would have been substantially longer.Dan Ilic  43:46  And I say, as a reader, I really enjoyed it. It might have been my favourite part of the book.Ketan Joshi  43:51  Yeah, because because it was the it's actually my favourite. No, sorry. It's my second favourite part of that. But my favourite part is the community and issue pot, which maybe we can come to later. Yeah, the mismatch between reality and discourse that was the greatest, I think it has had the most noticeable impacts on the way energy policy happens in Australia. So back then back in, like sort of 2016 2017 the narrative was like, if you build more wind and solar, it's gonna cause blackouts. I promise you it's going to cause blackouts. What was happening is that a lot of wind and solar was being built because it was incentivized under the renewable energy target, and blackouts, grid stress were increasing, because climate change is happening and heat waves are becoming more intense and longer. bushfires are impacting parts of electricity infrastructure like transmission lines. And that means there's more more stress on the grid. And coal, coal and gas fired power stations are getting older and less, they're becoming more susceptible rather to moments of great stress. So all these moments were like heat waves That just blatantly worsened or intensified by climate change, causing calling gas plants to basically shut down or power lines to get wrecked. Those were all blamed on wind and solar, because they were like, well, CCC hypothesis has been proved, like we told you that the presence of wind and solar would cause all these problems. This has actually changed somewhat since then, what we're going to see now is over the next few years in Australia, it's going to shift away from a narrative about renewables and towards the closure of coal and gas fired power stations, right? It will initially be mostly about coal, because there's this phenomenon that is about to happen in Australia's grades where coal simply loses its profit, profitability, wind and solar are so cheap, as a fundamental of the way they operate in that you don't have to extract the fuel that they use, you get it from the atmosphere and space, then coal simply can't compete. Because it's more expensive, you need to dig a hole out of the ground and transport it. This is without a carbon tax, without any, you know, without any form of carbon pricing essentially, in Australia at all. So this, this is something that's going to accelerate. And what is going to happen is that these companies that operate these, these, these power stations will say, this is really bad. All of our coal fired power stations are going to blip offline, and it's going to cause chaos, there's going to be blackouts, there's going to be price rises, because renewables, wind and solar will not be able to pick up the slack. So it's sort of an extension of that of that debate from like, sort of the mid 2015 onwards, that wind and solar can't provide reliable power, but it's going to be it's not going to be used as a reason to attack wind and solar. It's going to be used as a justification for keeping coal plants running longer.Dan Ilic  46:55  And that means for subsidies. Yeah, yeah.Ketan Joshi  46:59  Yeah, this is my prediction. I think that this is the way it's going to go over the next like one or two years. And you're already sort of starting to see some signs of it like is in what we what we know, for absolute Sure, is that Australia will not align to ambitious, strong climate targets, unless it's shut down shuts down its coal fired power plants before they're set to retire. Because every coal plant has it has a date on it, that it's like it that it retires. And you can put those dates into a spreadsheet and say, if they run to that day, what are the emissions? And then you can say what emissions Do we need to be under to align with climate targets. And of course, letting those coal plants run to the end date means we blow past our carbon, we emit way more than we should, if you were to sort of assign a 1.5 degree global target to Australia. So there's just no there's absolutely no escaping that math. And think back to last year, where a coal fired power station in New South Wales called Adel a relatively big one is usually close in 2022. For very, very close, right, like this is this is right around the corner. The reaction from the government was initially, we have to keep this open. We need to extend its lifespan for another five years. That did not go down particularly well, because the even the owners were like, I don't think we can do that. It was just the quantity of government money that would have been required. It was it was beyond the pale even for that. So then they said, Look, what we think is that the the owner of that coal fired power station should be forced to sell it to someone who will agree to keep it open. And Australia's government like toyed around with that idea for a while it didn't work. And the latest that we saw was Scott Morrison and Angus Taylor standing up in front of the cameras and saying, Listen up energy market, you have been very naughty. This coal plant is due to shut down very soon. And we feel that the replacement capacity hasn't been put in place. So we so we are threatening to build a 1000 megawatt gas fired power station as a punishment. Because you've been so naughty, and you haven't built you haven't replaced the capacity of this coal fired power station, that we're going to build another fossil fuel power station to replace it as punishment. So you can so what the reason is, is becauseDan Ilic  49:27  the gas the gas powered recovery is blackmail to keep the coal industry going. Is that what you're saying?Ketan Joshi  49:34  Ah, look, it's confusing. I can't quite follow your logic if the gas fired recovery. But essentially, essentially, the The reason I bring this up is it's actually a really nice example of how big the absolute key debates This is really extremely central to Australia's entire climate issue is shutting down coal fired power stations before For them in to retire. When a coal plant when a coal plant reaches its retirement date, the government can't even handle it shutting down on its minister.Dan Ilic  50:11  It sounds it sounds like the government is so sick, like absolutely sick. Like it's that they've got an illness.Ketan Joshi  50:19  Yeah. So so this is what I this is kind of links back to what I mean when I say like saturation, right? Because such a such a bad situation of like, they can't even handle the absolute baseline basic starting point of this issue, to control emissions to where they need to be controlled to that. You look at the way it's covered stuff like this. And people it's like, almost like people just don't want to and when I say people start I mean, I mean, you know, I guess like the bulk of like coverage in like News Corp and like large media outlets, you know, they sort of almost can't deal with how bad the situation is. They sort of like cover it like, yeah, I guess Hey, let's go up and suggested 1000 megawatt gas fired power station, environmental groups criticised it. Yeah. Next one, let's move on. Yeah. And it's like, if you can imagine the, I guess, like trying sort of related back to COVID-19. And the tone of like, emergency not not just from Australian citizens, but from media outlets to you know, the sort of really, those this air of like, this is an actual emergency and it needs to be treated as such. You know, bad decisions were criticised as, as such, you know, that, like it didn't really matter, that people would be seen as being too biassed in favour of saving lives from the impacts of COVID-19. They did it anyway, because they felt is journalists, you know, it was their sort of duty to serve the public interest and criticise bad policy decisions on the grounds of protecting the lives of people vulnerable to the impacts of this disease. The very same logic of like, well, the government ought to be criticised on the grounds that they're allowing the emissions of the substance which causes harm to human life doesn't really come into play. And it's frustrating. Another good example is actually, the next biggest sector of Australia's emissions is transport. Australia, you know, it's just a lot of cars, a lot of big cars, not as much public transport as they could be in big cities, not as much active transport like walking and cycling as they could be in the big cities. And consequently, Australia has very high transport emissions, even relative to the population. The upside is that decarbonizing transport is just as much is just as feasible as power, right? Like we have the technology, you know, bicycle hills, like ebikes, public transports, electric vehicles, electric buses, all these sorts of things, long distance transport as well. There's a lot of different options available. Australia could start now very easily on decarbonizing transport, and a few months ago, this long awaited plan came out from Australia's government and it was just this huge struggle they just like, we're not gonna bother, like we're just going to electric vehicles will probably eventually get cheaper, right? That's that's completely in arguable and they're sort of looking at that they're sort of holding that and going, Hey, look, you know, electric vehicles are gonna get cheaper. So why is everyone panicking. And of course, the reason that we're panicking is that you need to put some force into the system. Yeah, make it go quickerDan Ilic  53:35  to make go quick, because we're running out of time. And I really enjoyed, I really enjoyed that kind of attitude that I saw on Twitter from a lot of conservatives like see, we don't need to help the sector, the sector is going to sort itself out. And then, of course, two years ago, when there was an election going on, you had mykhailiuk cash, gay trainees are gonna lose their use and lose their weekends if labour has its way. It's such a peculiar fact up argument, that it just makes my head hurt so bad. It's incredibly frustrating to see that some states treasurer's, like in South Australia and New South Wales, are even considering putting a tax on on a vase. Like why would you want to put an economic disincentive to buy an Eevee at this juncture,Ketan Joshi  54:24  this is a very sort of salient problem to me, because, you know, I live in Oslo, in Norway and Noy has, you know, easily leads the world and the deployment of electric vehicles, but it's actually really interesting when you dig into the policy mechanisms that we use, right? So it's this really fine balance between at the very start, you have relatively strong incentives for abs, but you actually need to need to go through this process is Evie start filtering into the fleet of private vehicles in a country, you actually then need to kind of flick it the other way around a little bit and start to rebalance. The level of like taxation, so things like, there was this great interview with the head of the Norwegian electric vehicle Association where she talks about the fact that of course, every single thing that people do has some impact on society. So even using a private vehicle, even if it's electric, you know, that has, you need to use a road. To do that there's infrastructure that must be maintained, you pay a toll when use certain road tires emit particulates, that sort of thing. But there's also benefits relative to a combustion engine vehicle, of course, there's no air pollution in the greenhouse gas emissions is quieter, there's less air pollution, all that sort of stuff. So you need to then have this balancing act of like, don't let ABS be entirely excluded, because there are some impacts from usage of a private vehicle or, you know, most of the activities, of course, that humanity that like people do in cities as well. And what has happened in those states in Australia, is they've just mucked up the order quite badly. So they've started, they've started with the strict, like, you know, they started with a disincentive. And then they're like, we'll get to the we'll get to the step one, after we've done Step six, like so. And it's like, no, that's gonna Of course, that decreases the deployment of electric vehicles. I interviewed the head of the Norwegian Navy Association about this. And they're like, you just kind of see like the look on their face. It's like squinting at you like, they're like, why are you doing this in precisely the wrong order?Unknown Speaker  56:36  That's crazy.Dan Ilic  56:37  So you are a prolific tweeter. And your tweets are some of the most enjoyable tweets, particularly around energy and environment. Probably, I would say the best Twitter person to follow if you want if you're into environment stuff. One of my favourite tweets was you publishing a story from the Australian and it was like a bad a KPMG report. And he said consequences of mining now considered major threat to mining says, say miners, and for me, that was probably the most underrated tweet of 2020 and should have should have got far more tweets than the 43 retweets I got. I don't know when you hit 20. Do you think? Do you think this is definitely gonna be a 43? Or this is definitely gonna hit 500? Like what what was going through your mind when you hit tweet when you hit tweet on that one?Ketan Joshi  57:22  I never, I can never tell the my often my crappiest tweets send out the most popular and my best ones end up the least appreciated.Dan Ilic  57:30  And one of my I think I kind of made a connection today is like there was some data pulled together by KPMG, which made me think about today's big energy news story about the federal government spending $9 million on consultants to work out how best to subsidise the gas industry. And those consultants weren't KPMG. And clearly, Boston Consulting Group is happy to come up with different kinds of information for the game. Yeah,Ketan Joshi  57:58  it's actually I intend to write about this one right about this one, too, because it's a really, really fascinating story. And it's great work from the Australia Institute for for, you know, having that scoop and sort of getting those documents that tell them, my writing is split into two halves at the moment. One is one is, you know, sort of renewables focus, like grid energy technology stuff. And the other half is actually critique fossil fuel industry critique. And also like in general sort of climate plan critique, because what we're seeing a lot of is, is not just fossil fuel companies, but many other companies, is sensing the change in the wind and going, Oh, okay, well, we need to come up with a climate plan. What do we do? You know, like, do we, we need to reduce our emissions from a company, you know, whatever the company is, and you've got this whole spectrum of like, really, really good ones, where people are very, you know, very consciously recognise that their environmental footprint. Actually a good example of a good one is Google, surprisingly enough, I fully expected them to go for, you know, greenwashing crappy plans, but they've got a fantastic plan where they, where they match, they actually turn their data centres into demand matching for renewables. So it actually helps ease the integration of renewable energy. So bad one, isn't actually there was a really good article last year, I can't find it, because I needed to write my thing. But it examined Boston Consulting group's own net zero plan. And what they, and they have this, you know, with every one of these netzero plans, what happens is you get this really sort of like, flashy media thing, where it's like, Look, you know, here's another one. Here's another company, you know, showing that they're sort of caring about climate change. And often these are actually really good signals, these netzero plans, so they do hit they do do some good in that everyone's kind of watching this happen, and they're going like, Oh, fantastic, you know, now we now we need to do it. But then the next step after everyone kind of agrees that we all need to do this is to dig into the details of that plan and say, well, actually you need to improve this particular thing. Boston Consulting Group did this really interesting thing. And then zero plan where they don't really change the number of flights that they consultants take very much. They kind of just fill it in with offsets, right. So this is either like planting trees, or having a technology that sucks carbon carbon from the air. Those are the kind of the two types of offsets, they call them natural technological offsets. There's a lot of controversy around both with with the tree stuff, obviously, you need to actually have something that removes carbon permanently. Obviously, we got it from the ground, we've got it from deep underground. And if you kind of just have it on the surface, in a tree or in the soil, very unstable, re released back into the hemisphere. There's also some controversy around you know, there's a lot of projects that are sort of sold is like, we're building this we're planting this tree specifically because you paid us to do it. But of course, that tree may have been planted anyway. So it's not additional, there's no additionality is the word. Carbon removal has a lot more hope going for it. But it's it's a long way off. And then often the promise of carbon removal just get to us. As like, you know, we'll just continue burning fossil fuels, because we recommend like 2049, someone will just have this amazing technology that will just suck all the carbon out that we've spent 29 years releasing, it's likeDan Ilic  1:01:09  the same, the same, the same kind of false promise of carbon capture storage, just like Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we've got these two, we've got these two plants, and we think they're working, but we're not quite sure, but they don't really work. But we'll just say we've got them. So it means we don't have to do anything for another 15 years.Ketan Joshi  1:01:23  Yeah, and I often often produce these charts with like, here's how much they've released. And here's how much they've captured. And it's just like a ridiculous. visible, we've got to like squint at your laptop or phone. So So BCG offset their flights, you know, show instead of saying we're gonna figure out a way to fly less, they just said they just call it in with trees, and they will just continue, will largely continue doing what we're doing. But it will just have we're just commentaries and it's like, okay, that's actually that's actually not a particularly great thing to do. Because it's not reducing the amount of carbon that's being added to the atmosphere, the planting of trees is probably a good thing. And it certainly helps. But then you can't have that as the thing that you're relying on, you actually need to reduce your emissions as well. Yeah. So bcj were on my radar last year. And then there are a lot of companies that work is enabling for the fossil fuel industry without actually being specifically digging up fossil fuels themselves. Of course, the other category is like public relations, like marketing, advertising, things likeDan Ilic  1:02:23  that, I was gonna say Can Can could could be CJ possibly lower their carbon emissions by not working for the Australian Government and working out how to burn more fossil fuels.Ketan Joshi  1:02:34  You know, it's not captured in their annual report, like you won't see, here's a list of our clients. You know, here's Exxon Mobil, here's the Australian Government, blah, blah, blah, you won't see that sort of stuff. And there's a lot of actually really good groups. There's one in Australia called calms declare, there's another one as well. I've completely forgotten the name. But basically what theyDan Ilic  1:02:51  thought of another one called a podcast declare as well.Ketan Joshi  1:02:55  Oh, yeah, yeah, I've seen I've seen that Twitter account. Yeah, it's good. I mean, like this is basically, this is really important stuff. Because I think to some degree, we underestimate the impact of particularly advertising. You know, like consultancies, obviously, play a pretty big role in this sort of stuff. Like you can see the impact there. With BCG in the Australian Government, their marketing and advertising is going to become a much much bigger thing as decarbonisation moves from like grid stuff, like, you know, huge wind and solar farms out in rural areas, and into our homes. So like cars, you know, the type of stovetop that you have decisions that you make around like, where you put your money, you know, like which super which super funds, you put your money and that sort of thing. All of this is actually becoming way more individual. And so marketing and Mass Communication are going to be really, really big things this decade, the I was just tweeting this morning about the gas industry, they they really don't want people building new homes without connections to the gas network. The more people choose not to connect their new home to gas, the less value their infrastructure has, and it's freaking them out. Because you know, induction cooktops work amazingly well. You don't fill your home with fossil fuel protected like you don't know burning a fossil fuel inside your damn heart.Dan Ilic  1:04:12  You're not putting me in your house where you live.Ketan Joshi  1:04:16  There's an interesting side issue right equity of course, like I've been a lifelong renter,Dan Ilic  1:04:22  you and I are similar in similar positions where like it'd be all well and good to be able to do renovations to place we live to have an induction stove top to have electricity beaming from our rooms to our homes and doing all these ones and having a having a Tesla in the driveway. First of all, I've got to get a driveway. And yeah, so like to do all these things when you're when you actually don't have the power to do any of that yourself. If you're not a homeowner, that's a very different game to play. As a consumer myself, I try to make choices that are that thoughtful like a carbon offset my car even though I even though I'm totally aware of the nature of carbon offset, it still makes me feel good.Ketan Joshi  1:05:10  No, it's certainly something that you should do. I mean, like, as long as they're, as long as they're like high quality, you know, as long as they're verified, and that you are in a situation where you can't afford to purchase an electric car, or, you know, you live in a certain spot where you can't live your life without, like, it's not feasible for you to walk or catch, you know, use a bicycle or catch public transport. And in Australia, of course, there are many, many, many instances of where that's the case for most people, then I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with deciding to try and do some other action it doesn't need doesn't even have to be an offset, you know, you can like funds like a community solar organisation, or you know, you can you can purchase greenhouse electricity, like, there's a bunch of different things that you can do, that don't have to be a one for one emissions cancelling thing that really helped a lot. This is actually a really important point because the debate between individual action and like systemic regulatory action on climate change really rebounds between these two things, and people just get caught up in this rebounds, right where they just like getting buffeted around like, Oh, my God, I feel bad for not doing too much in my life that I don't know I don't feel bad at all. Because it's the corporation's you know, that should be doing it. Oh, no, I feel bad again, Oh, my God. Like, don't let yourself be emotionally battered around by this by this constantly shifting focus, right? BecauseDan Ilic  1:06:28  as you say, as you say, you should feel good for doing something good, you should feel good because you didn't put molecules in the air. So that's that's exactlyKetan Joshi  1:06:35  right. So so the actually, the gas industry is a really good example of this. Because there's a dimension, right, there's a spectrum, where we actually get more room to make the to make emissions, lower emissions decisions in life, because of regulation, right. So the example I often use is, I live here in Oslo, I cycle my kid to childcare. But I only do that because somebody fought to get bike lanes in Seoul. And this is actually a really recent phenomenon. And Oslo suddenly, in the past few years, that bike lanes have become ubiquitous in the city. And if they weren't there, I would not be doing this, it freaks me out, I would probably be driving a car. And if I didn't have the option to drive an electric car, I'd probably be driving a fossil fuel car. Because I need to get my kids to childcare. And so it's the I've made a decision. Like I could still drive a fossil fuel car if I wanted to. But the reason that I've made the decision, this lifestyle change is because somebody fought in Oslo's council to get this like option available to me, with the gas industry as well, they are looking at marketing and advertising campaigns to get people to have gas in their homes, because it will impact regulation, because they want like a body of people out there who will stand up and say, I like my steak when it's cooked by fossil fuels. And I don't like my steak when it's cooked by electricity from those wimpy wind farms and like they need that their to be able to say, Well, I want this state government to introduce a policy where they're not going to allow the banning of gas connections, for instance, and this is happening in the US, entire states are creating these things called ban bands, which is basically Yeah, this is wild. So they're banning the banning of gas connections. That's suchDan Ilic  1:08:24  an American thing. That's such a magazine.Ketan Joshi  1:08:26  Yeah, similar thing is actually happening with plastics. So there are pre emptive bands of plastic bag bans, where they say you're not allowed to stop people from using plastic bags. single use single use plastic bags, because that's too much of a of a, you know, it's impinging on the freedom of whatever it really you know, of course, it's there to produce the to, to protect the petrochemical industry producing the raw materials for those plastic bags, right. But it's a growing trend, and they need and they need widespread public support. Because these are all really local issues. Now, particularly with gas network stuff, they're going to be really local issues. So they need people to be like having warm feelings towards their warm feelings towards gas and gas connections. And you can tell I've obviously been doing a lot of reading and writing about about the gas industry. But it feels kind of relevant, you know, because Australia's doing its whole gas fired recovery thing.Dan Ilic  1:09:26  About a year ago to get the gas industry we're putting together events with influences to make people feel good about gas. So they had these wellness influences doing yoga and meditating next to a gas fired fireplace where they were breathing in me shade and particulate matter. In the sake of wellness to kind of sell gas to a whole bunch of you paid Evans types.Ketan Joshi  1:09:51  They cited some studies where they said that looking at a flame creates psychological wellness and therefore You shouldn't be putting gas in your home. I'll give you another example, that some, you know, it's sort of within COVID, because it's sort of relevant. Last year in America, this council in California was looking to implement a ban on new gas connections, and the gas lobby in this area, threatened to bus in protesters, and sent a message saying, if you go ahead with this, what we will do is busing protesters to protest your your attempts to ban gas connections. And that that is going to spread COVID-19 in your in so they specifically usedDan Ilic  1:10:43  weaponized COVID-19Ketan Joshi  1:10:44  respiratory disease as a threat to force people to have the option of having another respiratory illness from having gas burning inside your home with inadequate ventilation. So, like, you can tell why I've been so obsessed with this particular like, you know, phenomenon around the world, because the gas industry starting to get pretty dirty about this stuff, right? Like they're getting really, they doing like, do you remember sort of like the old coal PR stuff from like, the 2010s? You know, where they would do like ads, you know, with a lump of coal spinning in like, you know, bright light and that sort of stuff? Yeah, yeah, they would, they would do all these, like, you know, filthy astroturf things and get like, you know, dodgy operators to come in and do PR. So like, all that sort of coal stuff from the 2010s to get the gas industry starting to kind of do a bit of, that's a really significant thing, I think we can actually prepare ourselves a bit for it, by knowing how all of these things are gonna go and kind of knowing how they operate. And that's why I write about that stuff so much, because I want to be like, Look, we know, we can actually predict very reliably what's gonna happen here. And so watch out for it and don't fall prey to the, to the lines of reasoning that they'll they'll be using.Dan Ilic  1:12:05  Yeah, we actually made a parody on irrational fear of the little black rock, I think was gonna call it was called magical Black Rock is saying, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Let me play that parody for you. Now, hang on, here we go.Unknown Speaker  1:12:21  This can provide endless kinds of environmental destruction. It'll create carbon emissions, respiratory disease, and more waterfront land than ever before, delivering more than 50 million people the motivation to move from their countries to ours, it creates jobs for 1000s of machines, built by people all over the world. due to falling demand. It's the cheapest it's been in over a decade, but consequences of using it will still look expensive. Because if we use it as fast as we can, our world will look just like this little black rock. Whatever is good for humanity. This shit is the opposite.Dan Ilic  1:13:02  A guy that was that was 25th. September 7 2015. Yeah,Ketan Joshi  1:13:07  Yeah, Yeah, I will. I'm certain we'll get a you know, long, slow focus on gas bottles, you know? Yeah, I know the well, the wellness, the influences stuff is the is the modern version of that of that little black rock.Dan Ilic  1:13:23  I think it's gonna be the steak. It's gonna be cooking the steak, that'll that'll be the one that getsKetan Joshi  1:13:27  this. There's actually a few. There's a few partnerships that the gas industry does with I think it's like, some cooking shows in Australia. Is it Mastership? Like I remember which ones, but they do like, they get like, you know, the chef's from those shows to be like, Oh, no, I always cook with fossil fuels.Dan Ilic  1:13:44  It makes sense. Master chefs, Master chefs set up is all guest stars, I've noticed and lasted over them. So it's one of those things where it's like, Wow, look at that. Look at that naan bread being like, completely blown out on that guest. It's really incredible. I should really let you go. Because you know, you're a busy man with the world to save. And I'm not. But I do have questions from a couple of my Patreon supporters. Susan from Patreon asks, What are your thoughts about the most likely power sources for the aviation industry over the next 50 years?Ketan Joshi  1:14:16  Yeah, this is actually one of the this is really one of the toughest areas to sort of talk and think about with with climate action, because it's another one of those areas where you have to think about the potential of technology not not like what what it currently is. Because there's just no alternative to jet fuel. Forget for transporting people across oceans, across land, obviously, you can, people can travel along the grounds in a high speed train or a car or whatever. But across oceans ships can't really do it. The electric ships really, actually progressing a little faster than I thought there's a few really great electric ferries here in Norway. actually do surprisingly large distances already. But you know, it takes a lot of resources and materials to make the batteries for those thingsDan Ilic  1:15:07  I saw mask mask was going to stop building fossil fuel powered ships in 19 2030, I thinkKetan Joshi  1:15:14  there's some good stuff going on. And actually around this hydrogen, hydrogen is produced from a bunch of different you can make hydrogen from budget for things, but you can make it from electricity, which you can generate from renewables. And when you burn hydrogen advance cleanly, it just produces water. So it's actually a pretty, pretty good option, but you just need to develop the technology to to make engines that run hydrogen. And it's an option for planes as well. But the challenge for both batteries and hydrogen is basically energy storage for planes is that they post pretty heavy and they're both hydrogen is volatile. And so you need to have, you need to have the technology to store it in a plane safely. Batteries are far heavier. So you need to have the balance between the weight of the plane and the weight of the battery,Dan Ilic  1:15:59  what we can do is to charge their phones before going on a plane and then plug it into the plane. And then passengers can use their energyKetan Joshi  1:16:08  may not last very long. Yeah. I mean, I guess it really just makes sense that, um, transporting people through the air requires a pretty wild amount of energy. What is more likely to be the best pathway for aviation is keep going, we'll let technology keep developing it, but cut off the excess of usage. And so a lot of that is actually business travel, a huge, huge proportion of total flights around the world. I think it's like 30 to 40%, I can't quite remember the exact number I need to check it is from business travel.Dan Ilic  1:16:39  I was really grateful. Two weeks ago, I had to do a presentation in Canberra. And I was quite thankful I didn't have to go. And I could do it over zoom to seven important people in Canberra. And I could just do it from my bedroom where I am right now. And I was like, Well, you know, the only thing I've got to do is put on a tie. And I'm ready to go. And, you know, I think we've all been in COVID times that, that telecommuting and you know, stuff like video conferencing can replace a lot of that unnecessary travel.Ketan Joshi  1:17:05  Absolutely. And the other problem, of course, is is frequent flying. So it's people who people who fly way more than you and I would ever fly. And that is also a pretty large proportion. And the problem here is course is that airlines understand that this is a very large proportion of their revenues, people who fly when they don't really need to, or really, you know, like not this isn't, you know, stuff when they're going on holidays and stuff. So this kind of overlaps with the business thing of like, you know, a crazy melting group when I haven't have a meeting and they just fly their people, you know, from New York to Los Angeles to have that meeting.Dan Ilic  1:17:35  Yeah, maybe instead of having a gold and platinum, they should have like, brown level, you know, you've got it should gold to brown. Yeah, yeah,Ketan Joshi  1:17:44  this is actually this is actually a sort of proposal is to have like an incentive programme for infrequent dragonflies are very nice to get rid of marketing incentives for flying essentially, which which will cut off a very large amount of demand. And of course, that would be a politically fraught thing down the line. The airlines would not be a very happy with this approach, particularly Not now.Dan Ilic  1:18:08  One of our discord, community members adds rights. You read a lot about technology replacing coal plants with wind and solar and phasing out IC engines in favour of electric this leads to two questions. will this happen quickly enough? And even if they get replaced with renewables slash electric inside of 15 years? Is it enough? Or do we need larger systemic changes? I don't think it's, I don't think it's a quick question.Ketan Joshi  1:18:37  Quick, I'll give you a quick answer, though. I mean, you need systemic changes to reach that rate of change, there's no doubt about it, you need to have systems in place that intervening in what may have previously been thought of as like relatively free markets. So what actually goes links back very nicely to the coal closure thing, because the owner of a coal plant won't shut it down early, unless you force them to. And to get that 15 year time frame, that's actually going to be a really, really tough systemic deep change to make. So the other side of it, of course, is that simple replacement isn't sufficient, you actually need to push down on the demand side of the equation to so that's I mentioned active transport and public transport for, it's actually a really nice example of where you need to reduce the demand for the usage of vehicles. So people own a car, but they don't use it as much as they normally would. That is also climate when right. So this is actually a really tricky thing to sort of wrap your head around because we often conflate machines existing and the use of machines. China, for instance, is actually building a fair few new coal fired power stations, but they're using them less than less. So obviously, it's not, you shouldn't be building new coal fired power stations, that's extremely bad. But keep in mind that they also use them less and less because competition from renewables isDan Ilic  1:19:54  increasing. peeping Neil on the discord also writes, what does he think about direct Technical intervention to reduce co2. And he says, technology solution trees won't cut it, he says. So yeah, the idea of reducing co2 with the technological device, how far away is that,Ketan Joshi  1:20:14  on the scale that we need to this, you've got to, you've got to sort of split it out into two categories. One is getting rid of everything that's already been emitted. And the other is dealing with stuff that we're about to or that we, that we think we almost certainly will emit. So so so of course, if you ask a company like shell, they'll be like, yeah, we're not going to decarbonize very quickly, there's still a lot of admitting that we're going to do. But if you ask, if you look at if you look at ambitious climate plan, there actually is still some emissions that are gonna happen. So you know, I don't know, like a rescue helicopter, filled with jet fuel that you need to save someone from hanging off a cliff, she'll have some carbon emissions that you want to you want to remove. So and then, of course, this is historical emissions. And there's a lot you know, what are we up to last year, you know, 36 Giga tonnes in that in that single year of carbon dioxide. So not not all greenhouse gases just come with oxide. We currently last year, we removed 0.04 ish. Maybe missing a decimal point there. But you get to the proportions.Dan Ilic  1:21:18  It's like, I don't know why I'm laughing like it's one of those things where it's like, I shouldn't be laughing. I should be being very angry. But it's a sad laugh. Yeah, I think that's what irrational fear does.Ketan Joshi  1:21:30  What, what, what I think is actually a really important argument in favour of carbon removal is is actually a justice question. So the burden should be on those who have done the most emitting over the past century. And that's North America. That's Europe, and Australia, Oceania, some degree, all of these sort of three chunks of the world that have done a lot of historical emissions. So not the yearly amount. But if you look at the atmosphere as a stock, it's like a bucket of stuff who's contributed the most of that bucket of existing stuff that's in the atmosphere? That I think that's important. I think that's a justice question. And so shouldn't be led by fossil fuel companies, though,Dan Ilic  1:22:05  do you think it'll get to a point where, you know, 50 years down the track, the global community will be saying, well, historically, when the rich countries need to start mopping up their historical emissions, and really paying for it, this kind of exporting mass exporting of co2 equivalent from countries like Australia, which we build out riches on, is suddenly going to be the biggest Achilles heel that we have politically in the in the, in the world.Ketan Joshi  1:22:31  Yeah, the problem, the problem there is that Australia actually doesn't have particularly good carbon storage opportunities, somewhere like Norway has actually has really good carbon stored opportunities just for sequestering underground. There's a lot of sort of existing, like oil science offshore here in Norway. And so they're sort of trying to get ahead of the curve and and offer it as a, you know, business to say, well pay us and we'll and we'll, you know, we'll take your ship full of capture carbon and store it on the ground. And there's two sides that one is the one is the bad side, which is that fossil fuel companies may use that activity as justification for more emissions. And there's the good side, which is that we actually need to remove carbon from the atmosphere, because for the same reason that we don't emit, in that we need to reduce the stock of this substance in the atmosphere that that traps heat on Earth. So you've got to maintain both in your head at the same time, same time. Yeah, in that something good is going to be misused. It's going to be used as a delay tactic to keep the fossil fuels burning. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.Dan Ilic  1:23:34  It's a Tom, thank you so much. Look, I it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you. I've been a fan of yours for ages. And it's really, really great to get all nerdy with you. I think about two years ago, I went on a bit of a journey to try and learn as much as I can about this space. From my very small kind of comedy point of view. And it's in your one of the first book people that people turned me on to and haven't regretted following you on Twitter, andKetan Joshi  1:24:02  I love your work. I of course, I've been really enjoying the particularly like the, of course, like the fossil fuel industry, when you skewer them through through that comedy work. It's really fantastic. And it just, it just fills me with not a lot of things when it's dry these days, and sort of the dark humour of that is just fantastic to me, and makes me feel really happy. So thank you for that.Dan Ilic  1:24:23  Well, thank you. Well, without people like you, doing the hard work and writing the great work that you do, then I've got nothing to read to make jokes about. So thank you.Unknown Speaker  1:24:35  GM, the greatest moral podcast of our generation. Welcome to Brisbane.Unknown Speaker  1:24:40  capital is seven Queensland and bid city of the 2038 nuclear winter games thanks to industrial growth at all costs. Queensland is live life to the extreme and there's nothing more extreme than our weather. But every Cyclone has a silver lining last year Brady Denise From Ian, chalky Philippa good true Tiffany Melinda Shiro Rochelle and Dave Neely made space for new stadiums and sporting facilities and now we're ready for re rebuilding again. With the southward spread of Deva southeast Queensland now has the lowest rate of denki fever in all of southeast Queensland. But don't worry if you do catch it some of the best funded doctors in Australia just over the border in New South Wales, thanks to rising sea levels. in Brisbane, everyone shares waterfront views with some of the most ancient and deadly locals around it's now even easier to take a boat to the Great Barrier Reef Memorial oilfield it's just been refurbished and moved into the habit of speaking of water, the water wars of 2025 are a thing of the past. We now have a roster. Clean water will be available to farmers Mondays and Tuesdays coal seam gas miners Wednesdays and Thursdays residents on Fridays and theme parks on Saturdays Sundays and public holidays. But going wild can work up an appetite grabber by two weeks, literally just a bite. Queensland supermarkets now have round the clock military God ensuring the orderly distribution of rations and thanks to the Queensland government's banana buyback scheme, the cost of bananas is no longer than others. You know what they say? Queensland beautiful one day of the year otherwise by the Campbell Newman reeducation facility A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/ 🎟️ SEE A RATIONAL FEAR AT MELBOURNE INTERNATIONAL COMEDY FESTIVAL: https://www.comedyfestival.com.au/2021/shows/a-rational-fearFearmongers this week:Dr. Karl Kruszelnicki 📚 (Dr. Karl's Little Book of Climate Change Science)Naomi Higgins 📺 (Why Are You Like This)Michael Hing 🎟️(MICF show: Kill-Hing in the Name Of)Lewis Hobba 🎟️(MICF show: A Rational Fear) Dan Ilic 🎟️(MICF show: A Rational Fear) A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/True to form, A Rational Fear, takes a look at week's scariest news. Catastrophic ecosystem collapse, Gerry Harvey's JobKeeper bonus, sexual assault allegations in Canberra, and Schapelle Corby on Dancing With The Stars have all been loaded into the ARF canon and ready to be shot into space.Fearmongers this week:Amy RemeikisProf. Lesely Hughes (Climate Council)Adam Zwar Lewis Hobbaand me, Dan Ilic Dan Ilic  0:00  Hi this is just a little content warning that this episode of irrational fear will cover issues of sexual assault.Unknown Speaker  0:06  This podcast is supported in part by the birth of foundationDan Ilic  0:10  Hello Lewis. Hello Daniel. How are you? I'm well I Well, I want to be a big thank you to new and returning Patreon supporters we have our Patreon supporters have gone away and have come back, which is really exciting news for everyone.Unknown Speaker  0:23  I can understand the first part The second part is a real mystery.Dan Ilic  0:27  No, I know. A big thank you to Gus MC, no Danny rate and pate Lola, who have all joined up in Patreon this week. big thank you to everyone. How are you, Louis? You okay? Oh, I'm alright. And I mean, it's been a bit of a week. It's been a bit of a week. That's why we're here. Well, we'll kick off. I'm recording my end of irrational feet on the land of the firewall. sovereignty was never seated. We need a treaty. Let's start the show.Unknown Speaker  0:52  A rational fear contains no to words like bricks cambro COMM And section 40 of our rational view recommended listening by immature audience.Dan Ilic  1:05  Tonight, Attorney General Christian Porter has heard rumours that he's taking a short leave of absence but doesn't know any specifics and CHANNEL SEVEN costs repel Coby in Dancing with the Stars because March operate was unavailable and the UN chief demands Australia ends its deadly addiction to coal by 2030. In response, Scott Morrison broke into the UN chiefs house and stole his VHS recorder and sold it for a lump of the good stuff. It's the fifth of March 2021. And no journalist has ever asked me about this podcast. This is irrational fear.Hello, welcome to rational fear. I'm your host, former Duke of Essex. Danielle it's irrational fear is the podcast that holds your hand for the scariest forest of news. And we're doing it this week. So let's meet our fear mongers for tonight. She spends her days wading through the rubble of trouble from the camera bubble. It's Amy ruminococcus.Unknown Speaker  2:10  That's a very nice way of putting it I wade through the piles of shit. That's my job.Unknown Speaker  2:15  That's what I do.Dan Ilic  2:15  Amy, how are your rage levels as of today for this one?Unknown Speaker  2:20  Oh, I am incandescent with rage. I don't think I'd screen burn it all down so often in my life, and that was this Monday. So you know, it's been going great.Dan Ilic  2:31  And he's one of Australia's most prolific comedy creators. He quit journalism for the stability of comedy. It's Adams wha Hello, Adam. And he regrets about leaving journalism after a week like this.Unknown Speaker  2:41  It was a wise decision wasn't it? Yeah, I I'm exhausted and I'm not even involved in any way. So I kind of mentioned how you feel me? Um, yeah, full on.Lewis Hobba  2:54  It's lucky you got out Adam, you would have been joining the mob of media bullies.Unknown Speaker  3:01  do realise I was the lightweight among journalists. I used to write show business journals.Unknown Speaker  3:05  That is one of the nastiest pits to be in show business journalism. I wouldn't I wouldn't want to come across you. alley Yeah, I'veDan Ilic  3:15  been on the I've been on the nasty end of a paid afford clip on a current affair where he he said Daniel, which I've never heard of him.Unknown Speaker  3:24  On Twitter. I don't think we've had any interactions. And then just one day I discovered I was blocked on Twitter and I was like, can you even eat? Are you bored?Dan Ilic  3:32  And our final fearmonger is considering becoming a celebrant, I've already booked him to officiate my funeral. It's Lewis haba,Lewis Hobba  3:38  allaudin. I tell you that I actually did drunkenly consider becoming a celebrant?Dan Ilic  3:43  Well, I think you should I mean, you're told you're handsome. You're good with a voice.Lewis Hobba  3:47  Thank you. I mean, I don't think that any of those are relevant qualifications to sell celebrando wedding, but um, because I get I'm sure you guys get this as well. If you talk into a microphone professionally, you get asked to emcee every wedding. Like I've emceed more weddings and I've attended. And occasionally people do pay me to DJ so I could add celebrate, then I could literally be the whole wedding.Dan Ilic  4:10  Coming up ecosystems all around Australia and the Antarctic are suffering huge levels of decline, and are on the brink of collapse. joining us to discuss which ecosystem is likely to be last and where you should be building your eco doom. bunker is climate counsellor, Leslie Hughes. But first a message from our sponsor. It's the HarveyUnknown Speaker  4:29  Norman swimming in money sale. There's so much money with drowning in profits up 116% sales up by $462 million. As a bonus, we're keeping job keeper that's right $22 million from the government to help struggling businesses during the pandemic The only thing we're struggling to deal with find space to bottle this excess $22 million tax free interest free no cashback the savings are huge. And Harvey Norman, if you're me it's the Harvey Norman Swimming in money sale. All cash just got aDan Ilic  5:07  bit of long tail out in that one. This works Firstly, the Attorney General Christian Porter claims he is innocent of any allegations of sexual assault in 1988. He was adamant that the allegations that he himself hadn't seen were completely false. It was an extraordinary press conference this week, Porter claimed that no one put to him the allegations ever. I think what he meant to say was I hadn't seen or heard anyone putting the allegations to me because the Attorney General you had a radio a mouse or pick up a phone from the hundreds of journalists trying to put the allegations to him, then maybe he would have he also had the gall to suggest that the media were trying to quote ruin his life, forgetting that someone's life was literally ruined. Worst of all consequences for Porter is that it would he would have to step down for politics and go to work in a law firm for four times the money that he's on. Now. It's a bit like Schrodinger is Korea inside his a box, and you're not quite sure whether the career is alive or dead. And the only way to find out is if you open the box, but No way. No one wanted to open that box, not even a series of successive prime ministers. The job is very important to him. After all, the twice divorced Porter only has his job. It's not like he can quit to spend more time with his families because they don't want to be near him. It was a very, very strange press conference, indeed, fear mongers what were your strangest moments from this remarkable presser? Amy, let's start with you.Unknown Speaker  6:31  I mean, it does have to be said straight up. But he does absolutely deny it even happened at all that there was any sort of consensual relationship between him and the complainant. And he just says it doesn't it hasn't happened at all. And I have to put that out there for legal reasons, because this is a live legal issue. He has already said that he is trolling through social media and news stories and like for defamation, so he denies everything. The most extraordinary part of the press conference for me apart from some random memory of a bowl of prawns that he mentioned, he remembered from the 1988 night period in question from the complainant was that he basically said that he would be if this was independently investigated, or there was an independent inquiry, he would be the first person in history to have to disprove something that never happened. And to me, that was extraordinary, because that's the basis of every not guilty or denial plea that's ever been made. You're just you're saying it doesn't happen. That's that's part of it. If you saying it doesn't happen, then you you are asked to explain your side of the story. It's not unique. And then when he went on to say that the basically the rule of law would collapse, if he was asked to, to go through some sort of other inquiry. Because you know, anyone could make any sort of allegation and it would immediately ruin a MPs Korea, which again, is not true. You have independent inquiries all the time in the sports world, in churches, in schools, in businesses, it's not an either or situation.Dan Ilic  8:19  Deadline deadline. If you say when he said if he stepped down, it would be the end of the rule of law. That was quite a quite a very strange line. Like I think we all remember when the pope retired, Catholicism disappeared. I think it's the same sort of thing. Same sort of logic He's going for there.Lewis Hobba  8:37  It is what it sort of had this like vision that if a man is ever actually or a politician has ever actually convicted of a sex crime, the next day, it's the Thunderdome.Unknown Speaker  8:47  True, yes. But like that. The the other point, though, is that we're not even talking convictions. This is not going into a criminal court. It can't. The complainant has passed away, they passed away before they made an official complaint, they withdrew it before their death. There was never any formal interview process. The police literally cannot investigate this, there is no way that they can. So this is never going to a criminal court. The only way you have to test whether he is fit to sit in the ministry is an independent inquiry, which has to be called by the Prime Minister. And he's not even being asked to to do resign. He's just basically being asked to maybe step aside while this inquiry is carried out, which is something that happens all the time. It's just It's extraordinary that we've now reached these peaks of just it's going to burn down democracy and the rule of law. If we look into this any further and the fact that the government is just picking up that line and running with it and the Prime Minister is pretending to be a passive bystander. He's like, Oh, well, you know, the police have had this I there's nothing I can do and people believe it. is extraordinary to me.Dan Ilic  10:01  It's such it's such a passing of the buck again of all kinds of responsibility like this is exactly the scomo playbook. It's like, it's not my problem. It's somebody else's problem. It's not our problem. It's not our fault. It's not my responsibility is just continually passing the buck 730s Laura tinkle made a point that back in the olden days that some people had shame and that politicians would resign that over the slightest smell of impropriety. I think one of the one of the ones that sticks out in my mind was Peter reef, like having a massive scan around Peter rates telecard card, which is his telecom card that he gave to his son that his son racked up 40 or $50,000, with a phone calls on I don't even know how you could do that. And that almost brought down the government, but like nowadays, politicians are just sticking around, they're sticking to their guns, and tough in and out yet until they pass through. What do you think is what do you think's driving this trendUnknown Speaker  10:56  going back to you know, like, you know, times when people just resigned over almost nothing, there was a resignation because someone took a Paddington Bear toy into Australia without declaring it and paying tax. There was a resignation because an MP brought, you know, he imported a colour television and he put down that it was a black and white television. So we didn't pay the proper amount of tax on that. And he resigned over that. Like, it's just we've gone from that to a point where we have had sports rights. And we've had, you know, questions over Angus Taylor's involvement in like, you know, certain other projects, then we've had bullying allegations during the Liberal Party leadership skills like the many many Liberal Party leadership skills spills. Then we've had the handling of the Brittany Higgins allegations and now we have a rape allegation. And we've still got a prime minister saying I don't hold a hose or an acquire inquiry. It's just insane to me.Dan Ilic  11:55  I think I don't hold a hose is going to be the meme of his tenure. That will be the symbol of his entire Prime Ministership. Adam, what do you think about thatUnknown Speaker  12:05  idea? Yeah, I agree. I remember there was a time when people resigned. I think they probably started a lot. They stopped resigning around 27 to 2018. I remember. I think so. Barnaby Joyce, he left the legendary Liberal Party National Party in 2018. I think that was the last resignation. I can remember really, the Al Franken who was the Senator, I remember it was 2017 that he was removed. There was a accusation that he forced a woman to kiss him. And then he he demanded an investigation into himself and I think seven other women came forward. And so he resigned. Right now you've got Andrew Cuomo, he's not going anywhere on three women have come out accusing him of sexual harassment. Trudeau three times just photographed in blackface. Attorney General of Virginia, Mark herring, blackface again. All those people that are holding firm and I think it's, you know, we can blame Trump, but I think it actually goes back to Boris Johnson when he there was a you know, a number of scandals that he was involved in that just didn't touch the sides with him. It's something about those guys that just they just huge hide. Don't care what you think. Kind of love, love the fight. You know, Boris Johnson had multiple affairs. He doesn't admit to how many children he's got.Dan Ilic  13:28  That's a great start. That is that is I don't hold a penis mate. That isUnknown Speaker  13:34  totally fine. Yeah,Dan Ilic  13:35  it's obfuscation right there. There was an article in nine papers today that said scomo praised Porter's gutsy performance is scomo the world's most powerful drama teacher Adams. Well, yeah, heUnknown Speaker  13:48  like he takes the acting really seriously because it you know, as we know, the child actor and the Vic said back in the day, andDan Ilic  13:55  do people know this that he was a child actor in a Vicks vapour drops ad when in the 70s and 80s? I didn't know that. Yeah,Unknown Speaker  14:04  yeah. We're struggling to find out which ad it actually is. It's kind of hard because you know, he's got a kind of a fat ball kid in any of the kids with hair and how do you kind of pick out scomo? There's a, I can see the tricks of the trade that he's using, you know, when he was talking about the Jenny thing the other day, and he was saying that when Jenny had talked about it with Jenny, and you know, Jenny said, think about it if it was one of your daughters. He thought he was in a Ken Loach film that when he was doing that, he was really searching for the meaning and he was like, really loading those pauses, you know, you've got to be a lovey to know like, shit, he knows and he when he's standing behind people talking, you know, they've discussed the talking points beforehand. Yeah. And it's almost as though his lips are moving like he's kind of and he's kind of getting a little bit impatient with that. They're not delivering the lines. Was he would have, and you know, he kind of he kind of does he, you know, in his smoky, horrible way he he's a, he's a strong performer, whether you like him or not he kind of just he, he holds up, he keeps holding up despite the evidence being against him.Lewis Hobba  15:19  I hit that before that performance, I think that he does with the pauses, is very reminiscent of a genuinely ANGRY DAD when you're a child. Like, I think when you're getting told off by a dad, and you can, and he yells at you, and then there's a silence that grabs you as a as like, everyone remembers that being yelled and like that. But the problem is that he started to double up on the same performance. So there was there was this one where he did that was like, come on, you know this. And then there was the exact thing from a year ago where he does the same performance. But the point of this point A year ago was that he's yelling at journalists, because like, this problem is all over the place. Women are getting raped, and we're not listening to them. And you're like, Ah, you're these performances are really now clashing.Dan Ilic  16:06  Yeah, yeah, it's not that's not the tone we need for this particular point of view right now.Unknown Speaker  16:11  You get out of the text and you get another take if you don't get it right. Well, I ended upLewis Hobba  16:17  doing we've got that one.Dan Ilic  16:19  Scott's always got another dose up to get to show he can always try it out again. There. That's it. Yeah. Amy, I want to ask you this. I don't know if you're across this. But I saw that Porter could possibly have his fate decided for him by the EEC, by the time the next election rolls around, because because of a whole demographic shift from Wi Fi to Victoria, the IEC is planning on abolishing Potter's seat of peace. Do you? Is this the most Is this the most humane way to put Porter down?Unknown Speaker  16:46  I don't know about that. It is a very live issue for why politics at the moment whether you know Porter's seat will exist. And it's going to be very interesting from a purely political viewpoint of how much political capital he still has in the wha branches because usually when this sort of stuff happens is the heavyweights get to move into somebody else's safe seats and that person ends up resigning. So you see those battles happen, you know, kind of everywhere I'm in labour went through one in Victoria, when Melbourne had a whole bunch of you know, re selections in terms of where the boundaries were going. And that sort of thing. There was a lot of shuffling around and who got to go where crayDan Ilic  17:27  cray Kelly Hughes is looking pretty attractive.Unknown Speaker  17:34  I think you'll probably stay in who there was some talk at the time that you might want Julie Bishop's old seat and that he was making a move for that even back then because it's a much, much safer seat than his is. But it really is going to depend on how the next couple of weeks, months, like play out. And when you're talking about Morrison's performance, and I refuse to call him scomo because that is a nickname he gave himself. It is a marketing day. You cannot allow the man to just create like the man, the myth, the legend with a nickname he gave himself. So we need to like you know, move on from the scomo talk. But he performs mostly for the televisions and those pauses for the grabs. He just wants the TVs to have a neat cut of him saying he's very profound statement, cut one, cut two, boom, that's all anybody hears from the prime minister and everyone moves on. Because I think if we remember about politics, one of the key rules is that you don't want people thinking about politics because if you think about politics, you'll begin to pay attention to what the government's doing and if you're doing that you will probably vote them out. He doesn't want you thinking about it. He wants you just ignoring it. going oh, that's just a Canberra Parliament bubble thing. Move on. How about them Sharky,Unknown Speaker  18:59  what I was talking about with the pauses was the was the in the in the my daughter's thing. He was trying to tap into an emotional place there to show us that he was human. And in doing so just look worse than normal. I thought I thought that I thought he was actually trying to go a little bit too far. And being a child actors when I was little child actors. They don't develop into proper actors that they retain. It's like, really two dimensional kind of truth that they search for. It's and it's on the nose.Lewis Hobba  19:30  I imagined. If we ever go back and find that big sad, it'll just be some kid coughing desperately at a young Skomer going. I don't know how to explainUnknown Speaker  19:44  that's a metaphor, the Queensland Government. I mean, that's a metaphor, the cranium, that's a matter that I'll rise with other premiers and Chief Ministers. That's really a question to the premium. That's a matter of I'm happy to take up with the other premiers and Chief Ministers a rational fear.Dan Ilic  19:56  Let's move on to our second fear this week, as mentioned at the top of the show, There's a new wildcard entry for Dancing with the Stars chapelco rb, which makes me ask the question have TV producers run out of genuine Australian stars now, fear mongers. We're going to call Chappelle a star here. Who else should be given a crack at Dancing with the Stars? I've got a small list. I'm Ned Kelly. George Pell. My Brian brown still alive. Maybe we could get him on Dancing with the Stars.Lewis Hobba  20:25  I like I like Chappelle on Dancing with the Stars. But I think it should be kind of like a 90s. Right. Like she should just throw down three pills. And then the episode goes for 12 hours. We just say how long she can shuffle.Dan Ilic  20:38  This is really sad for not ignited graduates. I've always thought I thought not a graduates graduating not and now now have to go and commit some extremely drastic crimes of essays so they can get cast on the show.Unknown Speaker  20:49  Like, let's remember though, Pauline Hanson was a star on this show, after she had, you know, got out of jail after she was, you know, wrongly convicted or expunged or whatever, they ended up staying there. And before she was back in politics, we ran out of stars a very, very long time ago. I mean, I just, I think we went through, we went through whoever was in neighbours and home in a way that wasn't a hands worth and then I think maybe they dug up some like, you know, people from Better Homes and Gardens. Then they went through some like, you know, I don't know the block contestants. And then they were like, oh, who else who's coming out of jail now Pauline Hanson?Lewis Hobba  21:29  Yeah, but the reality TV pipeline now is this kind of like an Etch A Sketch, where you try to walk out of maps and you accidentally walk onto the block. And then when you leave and all of a sudden you're on X Factor, and youUnknown Speaker  21:43  are in Paradise and then you're stuck in that island and you find yourself into Viber and then you just go like, you know, putting out a raft somewhere and it's I'm a celebrity Get me out of here and it's never ending Dante circle, like reality TV.Unknown Speaker  21:57  What about the lie the cost of insiders? Phil curry on dancing and dancing stars definitely. Pay to watch that. Actually. I would pay meDan Ilic  22:08  a remake us on Dancing with the Stars. There you go.Unknown Speaker  22:10  Yeah. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I would, you know, probably dropped some really unfortunate swear word and then just get voted off and then just go straight into my next reality TV show.Unknown Speaker  22:22  And you're dancing with your mobile phones. You're watching him at all times.Unknown Speaker  22:25  Yeah, yeah, IUnknown Speaker  22:25  am. I'm just like, do you see what the fuck they've done?Dan Ilic  22:31  Adam, you're an executive producer of many TV shows. Is this some? Is it appealing to you to cast Chappelle in something?Unknown Speaker  22:38  Do you know what i like? I saw si s Australia. Oh, and I watched that with interest has done a channel seven show. I think I've watched the last you know, decade. And I really liked it and Chapelle I was very sceptical of when she came on but she was so lovely. She's a very sensitive, nice person. And that's how she came across anyway. And she won me over I was actually a little bit moved when she got voted out. I mean, she was terrible as if she shouldn't be anywhere near near, you know, she shouldn't be running 10 kilometres with a backpack on and noUnknown Speaker  23:16  one should.Unknown Speaker  23:18  And she, she, she was she was okay. So she's not gonna be any good at dancing. She'll be fobbed off in the first week. But you know, she'll be swayed about it and, and and take some money. I definitely think it was a brother did it.Unknown Speaker  23:36  They seize writable view.Dan Ilic  23:39  Turning now to activate close to this podcast heart, the end of the world. A groundbreaking report has just been released to COVID-19 ecosystems around Australia, our major threat of collapse that is deteriorated so badly. They're unlikely to recover a bit like my older brother's hairline. It's never coming back. And I feel like I'm missing. One of the authors of the report and longtime friend of the show is Professor Leslie Hughes. Leslie joins us now. Thank you, Professor Hughes for joining us. Hi, Dan.Unknown Speaker  24:07  Great to be here.Dan Ilic  24:08  So 19 ecosystems doesn't sound like a lot. But when you see it mapped out across the continent, the way that the report has it, it feels like the whole of Australia is it is in peril is an imminent collapse period.Unknown Speaker  24:21  Well, in some cases, yes. The the ecosystems as you can see on the map in the paper go from right at the northern tip, right down through the continent, right from east to west, and then down to Antarctica. They're spread out all over the place. Some of them are ecosystems that are really well known, like the Great Barrier Reef and others will be ones that most people haven't heard of, but they're all in trouble.Dan Ilic  24:47  The ones that people haven't heard of, do they need some kind of PR campaign? Is that something that we can help out with?Unknown Speaker  24:53  Yes, I guess, I guess so. I mean, some of them aren't quite as spectacular as the Great Barrier Reef for Or the Murray Darling Basin, but they're all in trouble. They all have species that are disappearing, they all provide services to to our health and well being. In some cases, they've been in trouble for a very long time. Whereas in other cases, the the evidence of decline has been quite rapid and quite recent,Dan Ilic  25:19  were the ones that the evidence of decline has been rapid, like, what are the ones that have kind of, you know, fallen over pretty quickly?Unknown Speaker  25:26  Well, we've, we've seen things for coming back to the Great Barrier Reef, you know, in the last five years, we've had three major bleaching events from from underwater heat waves. And that's resulted in about 50%, of loss of all of the corals on the Great Barrier Reef, if you think about a reef system, you can see it from space, it's more than 2000 kilometres long, and we've lost half the corals. That's a pretty major event. And it's actually happened, you know, in geological time, very, very rapidly. And then a couple of years ago, for example, just over the space of a couple of days, we had massive fish gills in the menindee Lakes, as a result of, of drought and heat and loss of water, with millions of fish dying in the space of two or three days. So some of these things can happen really, really fast.Dan Ilic  26:17  What does this kind of collapse mean for Australia's ability to feed itself to kind of, you know, provide agriculture for itself and as an agriculture nation?Unknown Speaker  26:28  Well, indeed, to the ecosystems that we mentioned in the reporter, the Murray Darling waterways, and the Murray Darling sort of what we call riparian vegetation, which is the vegetation around the river. Over the last few decades, there's been a massive decline in rainfall. And on top of that, of course, we're removing lots of that water for irrigation and for urban uses. And those two things together, together with you know, runoff of nutrients and sediment from from agricultural fertilisers are really destroying those ecosystems. And the Murray Darling Basin is where we produce a third of our food. So when when you've got those ecosystems that are so intricately intertwined with our life support system in in, in the form of our food security, there's there's some really serious things going on.Dan Ilic  27:23  And it sounds sounds dire. Like it sounds like there's nowhere to go.Lewis Hobba  27:27  Is there any positive to look at it? Can we eat the fish from them and in the lake? So can we take the bleached coral and use it to decorate Byron Bay? airbnbs?Unknown Speaker  27:36  Well, yeah, you can't eat bleached coral. And I guess you'd have to get to the fish pretty fast before they poisoned us. So there's always some creative things that you could do with that destroyed ecosystems, but it would be better to do something positive to to stop and then reverses decline.Dan Ilic  27:55  Is there an ecosystem that's thriving right now? Is there a place in Australia this like, hell yeah, thisUnknown Speaker  27:59  is great.Unknown Speaker  28:02  You know, I can't think of oneLewis Hobba  28:05  goddamnit Leslie.Unknown Speaker  28:08  I'm sorry. I mean, if you think back to the black summer bushfires, for example, the amount of area burned in those fires, is about three times the size of Tasmania is about 20% of our eucalypt forests, but that summer, so you know, that's just the East Coast and a bit of Western Australia.Dan Ilic  28:26  I was just saying, I'm in jervis Bay right now. And we've been driving up and down the south coast. And it's a hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of kilometres. It is just recovering forests. And it's so stark to drive through these places that you're I remember seeing on the news a year ago, thinking wow, like this is just this is just so epic, the amount of bush land it was burned over that summer, and it's only kind of recovering now. And I'm just thinking about all the wildlife that has gone missing, particularly over that strange, dark period.Unknown Speaker  29:00  Yes, one of my colleagues at the University of Sydney estimated that around about 3 billion vertebrate animals that's birds, mammals and reptiles probably directly perished in the fires and of course, many more would have died of starvation and predation afterwards. So but look, the eucalypt forests that you've been driving through are recovering, they'll they'll You know, they're fairly well adapted to to fires, but they're really different thing about that summer's bushfires is that we had massive fires go through rain forests, the Gondwana rain forests that the don't burn, usually. We had some a few years ago in the Tasmanian World Heritage Area that killed trees that were 1000 years old. So what we're seeing with with climate change, increasing the severity and intensity and frequency of these fires, is places burning that have never burned in the last 1000 years.Dan Ilic  29:57  With with this word that you've just kind of realised It's a big job to kind of kind of categorise every kind of ecosystem in Australia and put it kind of put it through the that that filter. How did this this job kind of come about? How did this piece of work get built?Unknown Speaker  30:16  Well, there was a workshop down in Canberra at the Academy of Sciences in 2018. That brought a number of us together to talk about what we called ecological surprises. And a number of people spoke at that conference, including myself. And when the people at the conference got together afterwards, we sort of sat around and thought, Well, look, we really should write something up. So that that this, what's been talked about at the conference can be on paper and disseminated beyond these walls. And so really, for the last couple of years, that paper has been put together, more and more people came on board who are expert in particular ecosystems. It's been a massive job, there's a massive amount of data and references in this paper. But finally, to all of our great relief, it was published last week.Lewis Hobba  31:04  I mean, given that there's, you know, 19 ecosystems, we've got the Great Barrier Reef in there, one of the most famous in Australia and the world, we still can't get anyone to do anything about that. The most famous one that we know generates billions of dollars of tourism, there's still nothing they can do about that, let alone the other 18, when you get together with your group have made these discoveries, what's the mood?Unknown Speaker  31:32  It's a good question. I think anybody that works, both in environmental conservation and climate change, and I work in both of those areas, kind of gets pretty used to being depressed about it, or and most of the time, you know, you get you do get you do have to get hardened to it, which doesn't mean that you give up and stop going. But nothing much surprises you anymore, you know, we sort of expect the worst. And on occasion, when we get a small victory, we celebrate that. But generally, they are small and fleeting victories against a backdrop of really extraordinary loss. But I mean, the alternative is to just crawl under your donor and ignore it and hope that it all goes away or gets better. And really, that's not really an option for most of us.Dan Ilic  32:22  I'm glad it's not an option for you lately. That'sLewis Hobba  32:25  great. A lot ofDan Ilic  32:29  you last time we hung out was in Paris at the climate talks. You are a representative on the Intergovernmental Panel for climate change. We're heading into cop 26 in Glasgow, first of all, what is what is cop 26 gonna look like in this kind of pandemic situation that we've got? Is it gonna be face to face?Unknown Speaker  32:52  Look, we don't know. I mean, I guess with the vaccine rollout, especially in places like the UK, which is seems to be going pretty well, I think we would hope that it would be at least partially face to face. Of course, the Glasgow meeting was supposed to happen last year and didn't happen at all. So there's another year down the track and emissions keep going up. I think one of the really major things that will be different about this year, whether it's in person or not, is the fact that Joe Biden's administration has put climate change front and centre. So that's given an enormous boost of hope, going forward. And I think that the atmosphere in Glasgow this year, will be very different to what it might have been last year under the Trump administration. So whether it's in person or not, that's a really important difference.Dan Ilic  33:44  And I don't want to kind of put you on the spot here. But what do you think Australia is going to take to Glasgow, do you think Australia is going to be a better actor than it has been at previous conferences of parties?Unknown Speaker  34:00  Well, look, you've just been talking earlier in the podcast about this government's ability to just sort of soldier on unchanged regardless of extraordinary scandal, the government's attitude to climate changes is also an extraordinary scandal. But they've proved thus far to be able to sort of tough out all sorts of things. So my prediction would be is we'll go to Glasgow with no further level of ambition, then we took to Paris despite all evidence that that is not enough. I'd love to be surprised by that.Dan Ilic  34:39  Like even with Europe in the UK standard, think about financial penalties for in tariffs on count on high carbon countries. Do you think that'll change what we take to Glasgow at all?Unknown Speaker  34:52  Well, it might do in fact, I think that's probably the only thing that will turn this government around to being a better player in this space. You know, if places like the EU, and the US start to impose carbon tariffs on countries like Australia who are not pulling their weight, then we will have to change because we are so reliant for our economy on on our trade. So, you know, it's sad that we should be dragged kicking and screaming to that position when Australia has so much to learn from renewables and green manufacturing,Lewis Hobba  35:30  it does seem like Australia has two options. One, that option, the smart one to Jenny starts to care. AndDan Ilic  35:41  it's the battle for Jenny,Unknown Speaker  35:42  you know, we should put it to Scott that his his kids and grandkids are going to live hopefully into the next century. And if we, if we carry on the way we're going with three degrees or more of temperature increase, that is pretty much an uninhabitable world that those kids and grandkids are going to be inheriting. So if he really does care about his kids, if anybody cares about their kids and future generations, they should be absolutely as passionate about climate action as I am.Dan Ilic  36:15  And Leslie, as part of this big bit of work that you've released this week, you've kind of put together a bit of a scheme called the three A's a way that people can kind of do their kind of get involved with their own action in meaningful ways. What are the three eyes?Unknown Speaker  36:33  Yeah, we wanted to put forward a sort of a framework of hope going forward, we didn't just want to catalogue the problems, and so many of these sorts of papers do. So the first day is awareness, you know, and that's what we've been doing with is raising awareness about the true extent of the trouble with Australian ecosystems are in. The second is anticipation. If you can anticipate future decline, hopefully, you can get in and do something about it before it happens. And the third eye, of course, is action. And what we do in the paper is for each of those ecosystems, we outline a series of management actions that if implemented, would help halt and possibly in some cases, reverse the decline. Of course, most of those are local actions that address things like habitat clearing and over allocation of freshwater and that sort of thing. But on top of all of that, is the global action that we need on climate change.Dan Ilic  37:31  If I was not a generous person, I'd asked you why. There wasn't a fourth a Angus Taylor, why wasn't that on the list?Unknown Speaker  37:39  Well, Angus Taylor gets the prize for the most Orwellian named ministry, you know, the Minister of emissions reduction that is wanting us to put in new coal fired power stations, you know, it does beg a beliefLewis Hobba  37:53  he's absences. The fourth is is kind of a whole it's a it's an A Paul.Unknown Speaker  37:59  Very good.Dan Ilic  38:01  That's it for rational A big thank you to all of our guests, Professor Leslie HughesUnknown Speaker  38:05  Adams. Well,Dan Ilic  38:06  Amy remake of St. Louis harbour, haveUnknown Speaker  38:07  you got anything to plug?Dan Ilic  38:08  Amy, do you wanna plug anything? No,Unknown Speaker  38:11  just speak to your MPs just be loud and angry and not at me and social media. Like just take it to the people who represent you. It's the only way you're going to get action.Dan Ilic  38:22  atoms. Why do you want to plug anything?Unknown Speaker  38:24  Nothing to plug then? Which is a relief, isn't it?Dan Ilic  38:28  It's very good, Louis. How about what are you plugging?Lewis Hobba  38:31  Nothing, Dan. on the radio show, you can listen if you like, butDan Ilic  38:35  yeah, no big deal. Leslie Hughes, what do you have anything to plug?Unknown Speaker  38:39  I'd like to plug the climate Council, which is working very hard. And they're now in our eighth year to inform the Australian public about climate change.Dan Ilic  38:48  And for the kids who are listening to this, ask your parents about what the climate Council is and how it was formed. It was this incredible story over a two week period where where one government department got shut down and the cabinet and the climate council came together with a whole bunch of public donations. And it was absolutely remarkable, very inspiring stuff. Amy, on a personal note, thank you for your hard work this week. It's been so fun watching you on Twitter, and heartening to see you at the coalface of such a very difficult story and helping all of us on twitter in particular channel outrage as to what was going on. So thank you. Oh,Unknown Speaker  39:28  thank you for listening.Dan Ilic  39:29  Big thanks to red marks the birth of foundation our Patreon supporters Jacob round on the tepanyaki timeline Rupa degasser He's incredible voice Kelly and David Payton all the discord crew. Until next week, there's always something to be scared of good night. A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/We're back, just like Facebook news, and just like Facebook we're giving out money to Australian publishers (if we feel like it). If you're a major publisher of news content and want some coin, hit me up at dan[at]arationalfear.com, or if you're an Australian Treasurer giving away pre-election grants for towing the party line, hit us up too, we'll say what ever you want, it may come across as sarcasm, but we'll give it a go.On the podcast this week, we examine Facebook without news, we dob in some dole bludgers, we celebrate WA Opposition Leader, Zak Kirkup, conceding before he's run and election. Also we interview Omri Marcus, the creative director of Israel's only progressive party, Meretz. Omri gives us super interesting inside look of how broken Israel's unicameral system is.Fearmongers this week:Declan Fay (The Sweetest Plum, and Crossbread)Emily Johnson (@Howdoidelete1 on TikTok)Lewis Hobba (From the ABC's Triple J)Dan Ilic (me, from this podcast)CheersDan🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/-----------TRANSCRIPTION FROM OTTER.AI----------- Bertha Announcement  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by the birther foundation.Dan Ilic  0:04  Hey, Louis, how are you? Well, Dan, how are you? Excellent, excellent. We've got a whole bunch of new Patreon supporters this week. I want to give them a big shout out James Smith, who is a fellow board member at FBI radio with me, we started where were we started a rational for you. Thank you, James Ben Gittens, Rob Bartlett and Louis. Next week marks the first anniversary of us starting our Patreon. And we had we started with the goal of being able to pay for our editor, which is we've done which is great. Now like to see if we can get enough patrons to pay for a holiday No. To pay for drugs, no, no, no, to pay for a video producer to help us make videos with us. So if you are into what we do, please chip in on the Patreon you you may you may remember, back in 2014, we ran a possible campaign and we raised $50,000, to make 13 weeks of digital video content during the elections. And we spent every single cent of thatLewis Hobba  1:05  was great. It's doing that. It's the first time I've ever had a chance to go bankrupt. It was aDan Ilic  1:09  thrill but it was like, Well, we've got this money, we need to spend it on making content on the internet. That's a good investment. Well, it's election season coming up and it would be great to do the same. But you know, video is way more expensive than audio. So if you've thought about becoming a Patreon supporter, now's a good time to chip in for as little as you like. $1 or $3. We have some guy paying us $500 a month, which is ridiculous. Big thanks to David Okada for that. Are you ready to start the show? Lois?Lewis Hobba  1:34  I'm ready, dad.Dan Ilic  1:35  I'm recording my end of irrational feet on gadigal land and the Euro nation's sovereignty was never ceded. We need a treaty. Let's start the show.Unknown Speaker  1:42  A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks can rub gum and section 40. a rational view recommended listening might emerge your audienceDan Ilic  1:55  tonight as an independent Craig Kelly says he will vote on his conscience. However, Kelly understands the word conscience means con science. And the first of April will say job caper increased by just $25 a week Scott Morrison hopes everyone on the program will enjoy his April Fool's Day joke. And at an International Women's Day event, Scott Morrison reflects on bungling the biggest scandal to come out of camera as a husband and as a father. It's the 26th of February 2021. We have struck a deal with Facebook. This is irrational fear.irrational fear I'm your host disgraced former elite athlete Dan Ilic. And joining us tonight as some incredible fear mongers. He grew up komova in order to foster a look that says former scout leader but instead of cutting it off to he settled for a look that says reformed murderer. It's the CO creator of Ronny Chang, the international student and co host of the sweetest plumb Declan Fay, thanks for joining us.Unknown Speaker  3:04  I'm very sad if I hadn't known you were going to mention it I would have kept it it's gone. You know, when people went a bit strange during the lockdown when Melbourne hit that second lockdown, I thought I need to set a goal for myself. And I set a goal to grow a comb over and it's really hard to get it to get all the way across.Dan Ilic  3:25  My uncle has a comb over and you look just likeUnknown Speaker  3:30  well, it combination of a lockdown not much natural light plus the comb overhead started to make me look like a very ill old man. And then my partner said to me at one stage, she said I'm just unconcerned. This is having an adverse effect on our relationship. So decided it had to be show it's goingDan Ilic  3:52  and our next guest has over 2.5 million likes on Tick Tock. We can't wait to ask her. What is Tick Tock? You may know her is how to delete one for the purpose of us boomers here on the podcast. We'll call her Emily Johnson. Welcome.Unknown Speaker  4:05  Hi, everyone. Thanks for having me.Dan Ilic  4:07  Now what is it like to be one of the most influential people on tik tok in Australia?Unknown Speaker  4:12  I mean, I don't think I'm influential. I think I'm, I'm just the anti troll of tea talk.Dan Ilic  4:19  And finally, it's a man who has yet to receive his free care. It's Louis harbor. Honestly,Lewis Hobba  4:25  I wake up every morning I run downstairs like a kid at Christmas. And I say QianUnknown Speaker  4:29  here today.Lewis Hobba  4:32  Nokia. I mean, frankly, if it haymitch Blake can't get me a Kia.Dan Ilic  4:37  Who can? I emailed Hamish Blake throughout the week and I said thanks for doing the show. Sadly kid didn't give us any cares. And he said Oh, that's interesting. They sent me three soDeclan Fay  4:48  it's gonna be harder for you to get one because key is have tried to go cool that they used to be the dorky family car that the guy would be like look if you can't afford a kind of toy or maybe you want to see the key He'd say it like kind of like you know he was showing you a dirty nappy but during the Australian Open they all kind of really cool and the ads are like they sort of the old doing like spins and kind of burnouts have tried to rebrand them. That's me.Lewis Hobba  5:14  I'm a bad boy on the bad boy. Family wagon.Dan Ilic  5:19  A very rich,Lewis Hobba  5:22  I'm dangerous. I break down emotionally. I'm just like,Dan Ilic  5:27  you're a guy that says I can do I can do burnouts with six kids in the car. Let'sUnknown Speaker  5:31  do it. Yeah.Dan Ilic  5:35  Coming on the podcast, we talked with the creative director of one of Israel's longest running progressive parties, and we'll ask him what's it like to know you're going to lose another election? But first, here's a message from our sponsor.Unknown Speaker  5:45  This episode of irrational fear is brought to you by mykhailiuk caches dumping a dove ledger hotline if you know someone who is earning hard earned money from taxpayers and is refusing to do their job. Just call one $800 blood JoeUnknown Speaker  5:59  mykhailiuk cashes dog ledger hotline. Yay. Hi. I saw a man taking tax payers money and completely refusing to do any work. Yes. Do you have his name and a job? Yes, his name is Scott Morrison. He's the Prime Minister. He just gives all the jobs to the state premiers to the it is so unfair. Someone who actually wants the job could be doing the job heaps better. Right and what's your name? My name yet? Anthony L. Albert sneezy.Unknown Speaker  6:34  One 800 dove ledger because there's nothing more Australian than dubbing in your mates.Dan Ilic  6:41  Well, first fear it is sponsored related, but it's not exactly sponsored content. The government has announced this week they're going to be god damn heroes and increase the job seeker payment by $3 60 a day. Ah, good. Oh, that's almost a cup of coffee in a capital city. The government is establishing also establishing a hotline to dobbyn unemployed Australians who refuse job offers. Now this does not bode well for me. I had perfectly good reasons not to go on Celebrity Big Brother in 2012. I just don't have to explain it to my mom, and centerlink fearmonger Have you ever had a job offered to you that you didn't want to take Dec? I mean,Unknown Speaker  7:19  I've worked in the entertainment industry. So every job I've had to take a look. Take at some stage. I've done numerous jobs I didn't want to take anytime somebody rings you know what the you know what the big job is? It's not actually like a company offering it to you. It's when your mate rings and said are I just could you just help me for a few hours tomorrow move house. And you know that that few hours is you know, you know that that stretching into 678. We're going into 12 hours it's akin to can you pick me up from the airport, it's the two greatest pressures you can ever put on a friendship that's actuallyLewis Hobba  7:56  a great like, mate for the doll would be a great scheme. Pick me up the airport helped me move house. All that like I need someone to help me move a fridge. Any of those things. Can you pick up a six pack for the party and just farm them out to door to door workers.Unknown Speaker  8:18  It's actually perfect because this government is obsessed with those kind of Ozzie mate ship things. So if they put in a thing, where you suddenly get extra on your doll, like work for your mate on the dole, people would absolutely love that. But you could imagine imagine Scott Morrison just coming over that.Dan Ilic  8:37  Emily, have you ever had to take a job you didn't want to take?Unknown Speaker  8:40  Yes I did. After uni I was in a job network. And they got me to work at Kohl's. It didn't last very long. I remember I was in the deli it actually locked box myself in the deep freezer with a forklift. And I kind of stood there and I was like it's Tom believe.Unknown Speaker  9:01  Were you driving the forklift?Unknown Speaker  9:03  It was one of those. I don't even know what it's called. It's like a pallet jacks. His head controls to move it around and I'd maneuvered myself into a corner.Dan Ilic  9:16  So I worked at Franklin's which is another supermarket of a bygone era. And I remember being so driven to tears after every shift like if I if someone if my boss dumped on me for not turning up to work through this, this this phone call I don't know what I'd say. What do we explain to settling that it was crushing my soul and I didn't want to do it anymore. is can I please have $3 60 extra dayLewis Hobba  9:39  a lot of my like uni work was at a wider a lot of Italian restaurants in Melbourne. And the rumors are true that people who run them. They like having a cash business for whatever reason. If I had a dog, dog, man, I'd be in the ground like I'd be wearing concrete Yeah,Dan Ilic  10:03  I CTU president Michelle and Neil among other people are really concerned that this could be open to exploitation Can Can you see how this this Domino logic could be exploited on your own nefarious needs?Unknown Speaker  10:14  The government have been so fantastic at handling any kind of administration or bureaucracy if people are on centerlink I can't see this going wrong at all like Don't you think that after Robo debt after kind of multiple inquiries into this after all this stuff that Emily that wouldn't you just stay away from any kind of administering this?Dan Ilic  10:36  Well maybe Robo debt that's their new job maybe Robo debt is is on to the dole a phone call now so they they've been repurposed because every robot needs a job. When you call up you actually have to talk to Alexa. DobbyUnknown Speaker  10:54  isn't so much a job but I did when it's the on the same day that they announced it and they had that thing that you just said that robots to it centerlink to employ robots to check on admin or doll budgets. And it was the same day that Daft Punk retired. Well, that is a very odd career trajectory.Dan Ilic  11:15  Yeah, man I just want to dub on my worker he's a he quit because he couldn't stack harder, faster, taller.Unknown Speaker  11:22  Very good. Very, very good.Dan Ilic  11:25  What other hotlines Do you think this government should actually invest in? Maybe mishandled a scandal hotline, press one. to reflect on an issue like a father press two, to reflect on an issue like a husband press three to reflect on a scandal like a shocking fan?Lewis Hobba  11:43  or any of the politicians to answer it and it could be like an anti phone sex line. Like anytime you're horny and you want to make sure you're not horny. You just call like the government and just immediately This is a huge boner killer just like Oh, God. Yeah.Unknown Speaker  12:00  irrational fear here with the hungry Jack's drives for continued as a vehicle lifted trial of black rubber. It's understood the driver ordered a soft serve ice cream and hungry Jack's, but when they didn't have any he was angry and did the burn out.Unknown Speaker  12:16  This is a rational fear.Dan Ilic  12:18  This week, second tier Facebook likes it looks like it's bringing news back to the platform, which is a complete shock to D radicalize boomers who are just adjusting to reading to the news on the printed page. Again, I don't know about you, but I've actually felt better. In the case of my Facebook feed. No news is great news. My friends from school, have kind of stopped posting about Pauline Hanson and instead posting about gardening and that is a net win for me. If you are confused as to what this whole thing is all about what is going on here, the winners and the losers. We've got a bit of an explainer on how the media bargaining code works put together by one of the Friends of the podcast.Unknown Speaker  12:54  So why isn't there any news on your Facebook news feed? Here's a quick explainer by me rupert murdoch left 10 on general of the news corp and assorted Expeditionary Forces. Now, Mark Zuckerberg owns a website, Facebook's and Google owns a website called Google. And their websites owns the data of all Australians who use which means they know what you want before you do. They're really good at selling advertising. I own a newspapers that are really bad at selling advertising. And those newspapers own the Australian Government and the Australian government makes laws. So one day on a whim, I thought Geez, Louise, we're bad at selling ads. Not everyone wants 60 month interest free deals for electrical computers, furniture, bedding and flooring from Harvey Norman. Some people want magnetic lashes meggings of make your bum pop and other bullshit. We have no idea. But then I said to myself, Rupert, you own a perfectly good government. It's just sitting there doing nothing. Maybe you can get them to force the blokes with the websites that are good at selling ads to give us money. Then I call the government to my house by private jet made them pay for it. And I said hello government man. I forget their names. I've had a lot of staff turnover lately. If you still enjoy being the government, can you do this? And they said we do still enjoy being the government boss. Yes. And yes, we can do that. Now the websites that are good at selling ads have to by law, give me money. And the best part about it. Googles and Facebooks give the money straight to me tax free and we wouldn't have it any other way of why start paying tax. Now, some journalists would say, oh, that there's no way to guarantee that money will be invested in new journalism. Well, none of those journalists work for me. I don't hire journalists. Oh, and news is coming back to your Facebook feeds very soon. Mark said to the government, he only wants to pay us money if he feels like, well, I respect that. At the end of the day, Facebook, Google and I all agree that we're not going to pay any money to the Australian Government. Because why would you? There are a bunch of cowards.Dan Ilic  15:39  So how do you folks feel about this? Emily, how do you feel about news coming back to your Facebook feed?Unknown Speaker  15:45  I'm ecstatic. I was devastated when it was all gone. What? Cuz it's, it's a part of what I do like to go like shuffling through the comments section for that. Perfect, like bigoted Bogan from Queensland, going off about you know, come out and be that rock and move and I'm like, this is gold for me.Dan Ilic  16:07  See, it's actually fuels your work. You're missing it because it actually the comments actually a fuel for your your creative over?Unknown Speaker  16:16  Yeah, and I mean, people like to turn a blind eye and say that Australia is so progressive this and that. It's like, take a look at the comments section on Facebook. That's Australia, right there.Lewis Hobba  16:26  You're warming your hands on just the garbage fire of democracy. I mean, I don't the only the only person I know who posts on Facebook is Dan. Really, it's the same as getting a text from Dan I'mUnknown Speaker  16:40  having. It was very peaceful for a few days. Like I kind of know that eerie feeling when you're at school, and you were like, nine in year 10. And the senior kids were away for some reason. And it's like there's this kind of eerie calm hangs over everything. And you know, it can't last you know your place in the pecking order. You know, your mommy's gonna start tagging you instead of cute cat photos from 10 years ago all over again. It was this. I really liked it. I won't be going back there. I don't need to I don't need to see that been fired for a while. ButDan Ilic  17:16  there are many there are so many other platforms. You can harvest comments from what is it about Facebook comments that you can't get from other social media becauseUnknown Speaker  17:24  it the the audience on there that I'm not trying to bash on people, but it's like the common people. Like everyone's just like random uncle or whoever that has an iPad plugs onto his Facebook. Like, that's the sort of information as well, so they're not very exposed to the media. So they just ate it up. Yeah. AndDan Ilic  17:48  you know, in 2016, when I hitchhiked from Hobart to Airlie Beach for the election and interviewed people in the car on the way. And I had to say people at the top of the country at the bottom of country were all heavily into Facebook and all got their information there news from Pauline Hansen's Facebook page. She was the main she was the main purveyor of information for that like that didn't didn't pick didn't follow any of the news service. They'd followed Pauline Hanson to get the news. And it's like, it's so strange. Like this is such a force. It would be such a shame to have that back, cause I mean, Facebook has been renowned for destroying democracies around the world, can I just do something right? Protect our democracy shut themselves down for the good of the country.Lewis Hobba  18:29  It wouldn't wait. Everyone's deed stopped going down. It was a bit of a kick. There was like a sense of popularity contests as well, like, the people who got taken down were important. And if you're if you remained you were a loser. If you had a Facebook page that reported to us, and you were allowed to like, what that said is you don't matter. No one is down to you. No one is listening to you. It was it was interesting, because people go Ah, I guess I'm still up. I guess I'm irrelevant.Unknown Speaker  19:01  It's the equivalent of the podcast that I do. We a couple of times have been worried about defamation, just because of things you say on the spur of the moment. And I asked my partner who is a lawyer and who has worked in defamation law, she would listen to it and I'd say what do you think is this defamation and she'd say, technically it is but people will need to prove a large reputational damage and there's no way that your podcast qualifies as that.Lewis Hobba  19:31  Like a legal burn from a partnerUnknown Speaker  19:36  there's no way to come back from it. It's you know, it's it's it's equal parts relief in equal parts of devastation.Dan Ilic  19:44  I really loved the week before Facebook Banned on Facebook, the top 10 posts that we're getting the most engagement top 10 over performing posts were Seven News seven news abc Bittu dot csps. The chaser abc news Seven years and then the next week the top 10 posts were the tuna tuna, tuna, tuna tuna the chaser, the chaser metoda Penrith Panthers.Unknown Speaker  20:13  We will have consumers who will miss out on accessing quality news journalism.Lewis Hobba  20:18  We understand that ICT Hill, Queensland Hill, South AustralianDan Ilic  20:23  dementia Australia's kids cancer project and bowel cancer Australia will be in effect a rational fear. Third fear for the weak opposition leader Zach Kirkup has done a candid interview with the West Australian in the lead up to the Western Australian election basically basically conceding the election, two weeks out before the election date. This is the headline splashed across the West Australian today. I accept 2020 is not my time, which is what I say to myself after I've pitched irrational fear to every TV network in the country this year. So theme mongers What do you think of this strategy Lewis to come out there and say basically, I'm gonna loseLewis Hobba  21:00  in a couple of weeks. every politician does this in every election. It's just that this is the only time you believe it like that. Australians love the underdog. So before every election, everyone is kind of going no, I guarantee I'm going to lose. It's the opposite to every country. And I it's one of my favorite things about Australian democracy. No one wants you to believe in them. And and we shouldn't and then eventually disappoint us. We're like, well, we shouldn't have believed in you too big to begin with. But this is the first time someone has said I could I don't think this is my year and the like, but no one does.Dan Ilic  21:31  Emily, would you vote for Zach with a phrase like this?Unknown Speaker  21:35  Oh, I think it is. It's good. Like, reverse psychology. I've been like, you know, I'm not gonna win. Like you should pity me. Pity vote me.Lewis Hobba  21:43  Yeah. It's like a person, like the person who studies hates in year 12. And then goes, I haven't studied and so the exam like Oh, did I do? Well, I don't know. I didn't even try.Unknown Speaker  21:53  I didn't find it. Interesting. I mean, my two thoughts on this was one is that I follow politics. I'm pretty deep in politics. I've gone down some dark political rabbit holes on social media. I didn't know that. The opposition leader in Western Australia was cold. Zach cook up until you sent me this article. I swear to God, and Zach. No one's gonna win with the name Zack Kirkup. It sounds like the kind of noise you make when you're choking on something.Dan Ilic  22:25  Yes, yeah. The most famous West Australian should really run for this job. Hot Dogs should be running for the liberals. As a leader, hot dogs could get us get people's votes, election up light. I mean, it takes the pressure off, that's for sure. I mean, everything's kind of a nice surprise. Oh, we gained a seat. Not bad. You remember when I said it wasn't our time. But look, we did better than we thought. The current status is Labor has got 40 seats, liberals have got 13 so labor is pretty much entrenched. There. There's absolutely no way they're gonna move that he said this on a podcast earlier today. I'm throwing myself on the barbed wire so I can get as many of them across the fence as possible. Why is he Why is he even running? Oh, why is why is that cookieUnknown Speaker  23:14  even running? It sounds like he's actually kind of getting off on it. In a way. He's getting a kind of mild sexual thrill over how badly he's gonna look.Unknown Speaker  23:24  Bad. Tell me about that.Dan Ilic  23:27  One great clip of the week, I just want to play for you now. It is, it is a woman getting the first COVID-19 vaccine sitting next to Scott Morrison.I just love that. The woman at Scott Morrison osuna do Viva vaccine, he does the pace on she tries to the pay sign. And then they move her hand around to the RPO sign. Then he immediately grabs her and tries to stop her from doing anything for the cameras long after it's far too light for those images that go viral. An incredible image for this week, that was the most perfect better visit.Unknown Speaker  24:18  The only way the only way that would have got shared more was if he hadn't grabbed it even a tiny bit harder and she had actually died as he grabbed. Can you imagine that's what I felt like she's quite frail. She's just had an injection. Everybody knows you don't want anybody within kind of 10 meters of you when you've had an injection. And he just wraps her up I really because she looks quite frail and her fingers are quite sort of, you know, they're just she's quite old and I just really worried for her she felt after he grabbed her.Dan Ilic  24:51  This is a really interesting moment this week because all the leaders of the major parties were all meant to get their vaccine at the same time. That Day after this. So what Scott Morrison did was he called a press conference the day before everyone was meant to get it together, just so that he could be the first actually staged up this entire moment in a week where, you know, three liberal staffers are accusing, accusing somebody of sexual assault. Do you think this is a good look for a prime minister be grabbing an old lady Emily,Unknown Speaker  25:25  no way, I mean, shit. And the thing is like it was the whole sorority bolted. And now you just look like a total like aggressive creeper. And he's always grabbing people's hands, he can't stop reading people's hands. Twice.Dan Ilic  25:42  That is so true. I totally forgot about the bushfires where nobody wants to shake his hand. And everyone has had this aversion to Scott Morrison. And he's really forcing himself upon the electorate in a very literal way. The other partLewis Hobba  25:56  of that story it to put into context, why he was looking so confused that this that he was grabbing your hands, is she did a follow up interview later on in the day. And they were like, they said, How was it to get your injection with the Prime Minister? And she said, Oh, the Prime Minister wasn't there. And then I said, No, the man next to you was the Prime Minister. And she went, Oh, Oh, right. Whoa, oh, I didn't realize that that they sent me around. But I didn't know who he was. And so she had no idea who this strange man grabbing her hand was?Unknown Speaker  26:28  Yeah, who did she think he was?Dan Ilic  26:34  In her in her defense, she still thinks the Prime Minister is Robert Menzies. SoUnknown Speaker  26:42  this is a rational view.Dan Ilic  26:45  Joining us now is the creative director of merits one of Israelis, most left parties. And he's, he's kind of only a few weeks out from election. So we thought we'd take the moment to try to understand what is Israeli politics all about? Omri Marcus. Thanks for joining us on irrational fear.Unknown Speaker  27:02  Oh, sorry, I know that you will explain to me what all is well.Dan Ilic  27:12  Hoping that you could tell us, you know, Australian comedy podcasters in less than a sentence. You know, what, what, how does Israeli politics work?Unknown Speaker  27:22  Well, it's not that much of a difference from your system. It's also a correlation that is based on a couple of parties that are building a coalition and choosing the Prime Minister. And but it's not working that well in Israel. So for the last two years, we've been going to vote four times this is going to be the fourth round of elections in less than two years.Dan Ilic  27:48  Wow, you you have more elections than we have prime ministers. That's incredible.Unknown Speaker  27:52  I know and department um, we are also similar in the fact how important our labor parties are. And we are actually nurses, not one of the leading a left wing parties in Israel, we are the only Labour Party in Israel, and which is kind of like it's a pity when we're around 16 or 1717. A party's we are the only left wing Liberal Party. It's a dying species. It's us and the dinosaurs.Dan Ilic  28:22  So how do you I mean, how do I how do you try to cut through to kind of change people's minds on on politics in a place like Israel?Unknown Speaker  28:31  Well, listen, the only way we can win is that if they will switch the system from voting into raffle. So whenUnknown Speaker  28:42  you're you must be an inspiration to your followers. You're more of an inspiration than the state labor puts the state opposition leader in who said he's not going to win, and no one should vote for him.Unknown Speaker  28:57  Yeah, well, I'm thinking that maybe there is kind of like a world pandemic that is happening to labor parties, that it's not like they feel like it's not the year even though you know, everything is collapsed. and still they are not able to show that they are the alternative. But you're so limited resources, we need to think outside of the box of how you can stand out among you know, 17 other parties out there. And we came up with a lot we call what we are mostly working on using free media. So we are creating a lot of standards and gimmicks. So we will be noticed. Our first campaign was about a we put a campaign on Tinder and we're a team of 80 of our supporters switch their profile pictures into a our slogan, which is you can count on us. We won't run away the morning after you remember your aggressive slogans and then we did the night thing where we put on a Amazon boxes of people where they used to get their boxes. And we put a nice sticker of us saying, you know what you're getting with us. And so everybody that got their Amazon package got it with a sticker of us on it saying you know what you're getting. Last week, we did something very nice. We put on the Billboard on the highway main highway in Israel, we put a picture of the Minister of Education with his mobile phone number with his extra mobile phone number thing. You know, he's so proud about what he was doing this failing clown. Give him a call. Tell him what you think about his work.Dan Ilic  30:43  And did you hear from him? If he got any calls?Unknown Speaker  30:47  He tried to call us but his line was busy most.Unknown Speaker  30:53  Omri, can I can I ask you honestly, what is your IP? Obviously, it's very funny what you're saying. And there's obviously a strong element of truth to what you're saying about your party and your role in the in the politics of the area. But what what is the aim for your party? Like when you get to this fourth Election Day in two years? What will you be happy with with the result? Well, thereUnknown Speaker  31:18  is about that. underneath it, we won't get into the parliament, which is four seats. And if we will get into the parliament, that would be a huge victory. For me. It's, it's very easy for me to say because you know, we are supposed to be much more dominant, but it is very middle age and times and very dark era. And we are hoping at least to get into to the parliament in order to show the alternative. armory, whatLewis Hobba  31:50  are the like, what's the what's the main issue? Do you think that you wish your party could could connect with like in Australia, for instance, like climate change is a baffling one. All center parties, all right parties, everyone. No one wants to anything about climate change? The only people that want to do it are the sort of further left parties. what's what's that sort of issue for you? Well,Unknown Speaker  32:11  I know where we are standing about climate change. But this is because we are the only party that actually published a political platform with our ideas. So I can't really tell you in comparison, the topics, you know, it's a false round of elections. So I don't really expect to change anyone's mind. It's very identity politics is very dominant, and people knows exactly what they are in favor of and and everybody minds is very set. So my goal right now is just to keep my audience motivated, and to try and bite the other sides on painful places. So they would kind of like to get some new audiences but it's going to be marginal the amount of new audiences that you will get.Dan Ilic  33:00  Have you thought about Red Hat's with the text make Israel reasonable again?Unknown Speaker  33:06  Oh, yeah. Finally, you're asking, we did open a merchandising store with our with products because our goal is to do something very emotional. So we did nice socks with the one of them is written on it left and on the other one is written not left. And we did one a condom with our logo on it saying you will fill us for sure. And we did an umbrella thing this is not rain, what you are having all kinds of, you know, things like that.Dan Ilic  33:35  How does it feel to know that is the whole political party looking to you to come up with ideas so that you know that they can get into parliament? Have you? How do you feel about that?Unknown Speaker  33:45  It's it's hard Actually, it's quite. I would prefer to discuss serious topics in depth and to have a serious discussions but it became such a circus that you kind of like you need to stand out and buy we should check out our zoom call advertisement of cats, because obviously left wing liberal as they love cats, so we did a zoom call off cats trying to explain why you should vote for our policy. And I'm quite depressed because I would really like to have a serious political issues on the table and have a discussion about it. But unfortunately, that's not the situation.Lewis Hobba  34:32  Omri I've never heard of a political party having a creative director. What's your background? Where were you before you were with this party?Unknown Speaker  34:40  Well, it's it. I'm the creative director for the campaign. I'm not a great party, but it's a double campaign. For me. It's my first one and my last one. I'm a comedy writer in my background, but I'm doing many other stuff like developing TV formats. All around the world in dating shows in China and game shows in India. And I'm doing a lot of projects with a very dominant Australian comedian named Dan edit which word is very popular down on there.Dan Ilic  35:16  And I'm so popular, we got 10 people viewing the live stream right now. People 10 people have chosen to tune in to this conversation.Unknown Speaker  35:26  Now you can tell them about the crazy shit that we've done together done. like Trump impersonators, a conference in south by or the other stuff that we do owes to the United States that we did with the writers of The Simpsons and Family Guy and some other crazy stuff. It's part of RobertDan Ilic  35:47  Murray's armor is this magical convener of comedians in a global space. He's, I Omri invited me to this conference in New York City when I was working in America. And I said, Oh, yeah, I'll go prepare a little presentation about Comedy and Comedy and how comedy can change people's minds and blah, blah, blah. I've got that presentation. I do it lots of different places, I'll probably go presented to 200 people get a sandwich and go home. And I turned up and it wasn't 200 people, it was 30 people in this boardroom. And those 30 people were the presenters and showrunners of every Tonight Show around the world. That was very similar, like john oliver. And I was like, holy shit, this isn't. This isn't like some jerks turning up to hear somebody talking about comedy. This is like, this is like the power supplies of comedy. I was like, I was completely blown away. I was like, What the fuck am I doing? Get this read?Unknown Speaker  36:39  Dan, then there's a reason he didn't tell you that it was gonna be all those people from all those popular comedy news shows, because your brain would have exploded and you would have had a small stroke beforehand. So it was actually in your best interest in your welfare. No.Dan Ilic  36:58  We did. We did have some lovely sandwiches. Thank you. I'm ready for that.Unknown Speaker  37:02  Hey, Omri, can I ask we are labor but you've talked about the problems of labor parties across the world, our labor party here. Our Federal Labor Party suffers from a few issues with its with its image, and with a lack of sense of humor about itself and a bunch of other things. What do we have to pay you to come out here and sort out the promotion of the Australian Labor Party?Unknown Speaker  37:29  Wow. And since you know, you're on the other side of the world and right now to jump on a plane. That would be the challenge. If you have done I think Dan knows everything that I know. And he's one of the most creative people that I know is, as the head of the fan club have done in Israel. I think they can. Service Okay, Omri. SoUnknown Speaker  37:50  now I'm working this out so we don't have a picture of you here. We just have a graphic. Are you sure you're not Dan Ilic doing an accent with a rich with a recording of his voice just praising him across a 12 minute interview.Unknown Speaker  38:05  And I can confirm nor deny.Dan Ilic  38:09  I think we should wrap it up there. That is it for rational play a big thank you to all of our guests. Thank you Omri Marquez from Israel Emily Johnson from Tick Tock Louis harbor From where are you from Louis? The radio the radio. Declan Fay from podcasts renowned. Do you guys have anything to plug Declan would like to plug anything? No, itUnknown Speaker  38:29  was a year. I mean, every white guy says this every day every few minutes but please listen to my podcast. It's called this way this plum or if you like fiction podcasts. I wrote one last year called crossbred about a Christian hip hop group that kind of blows up. Have a listen to that. I like that. That's my favorite thing.Dan Ilic  38:46  That's a really fun, excellent narrative comedy podcast. Emily Johnson. What would you like to plug? I mean, IUnknown Speaker  38:52  guess you can follow me on tik tok. If you have kik talk, do I delete one? I'm always responding to filthy racist comments. With skits or something hilarious hopefully.Dan Ilic  39:05  And Andre, what do you what would you like to plug?Unknown Speaker  39:07  Well,Lewis Hobba  39:08  okay,Unknown Speaker  39:09  vote for merit. Oh, and I want to say to my family in Australia, we're waiting for you over here.Unknown Speaker  39:15  Yeah,Unknown Speaker  39:16  Nick. You've only family in Melbourne.Dan Ilic  39:19  Well, you're gonna have to wait till I get the vaccine then I'm sure they'll fly over. Louis, how about you anything the flood?Lewis Hobba  39:24  I feel like I should plug my radio show since you forgot what I do every day. It's on Triple J it's called hover and you can follow us on Instagram at not harbor and hang official. Dan if you'd ever like to listen. That's what I that's where I am when I'm not here.Dan Ilic  39:38  It's marvelous. Thank you to read Mike's the birth of foundation jackin round of the tepanyaki timeline. This episode of rational v has bits and pieces contributed by Rupert Degas. brodmann Morgan Killian, David. Amanda Buckley ads paid Lola sheepy and everyone else in our Discord server Until next week, there's always something to be scared of. Good night.Unknown Speaker  39:55  This episode of irrational fear is brought to you by mykhailiuk caches dumping a dove ledger hotline. If you know someone who is earning hard earned money from taxpayers and is refusing to do their job, just call one 800 dole bludgerUnknown Speaker  40:09  o R. Is that the old one to dolvin? obliger? Yes. A lot. dovin obliger Yes, come on Darryl. Darryl, who I think we need some more information there. We'll go on set last week after the job keeper thing ended off with him his job back at high five for three hours a fortnight in the bugger refused aerelon job seeker denied. Was he applying for the job? Well, I reckon he would have advertised it you haven't advertised to the job then? No, then the tax department would not right. So what are you gonna do about it? You're gonna ring him and tell him that he should take it that maybe I could I have your full name and contact number. Click to hang up you actually need to press the red button not say click Oh, thanks.Unknown Speaker  40:51  One 800 because there's nothing more Australian than delving in your mates.Transcribed by https://otter.ai A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/This week we're throwing the spotlight on Dylan Behan's News Fighters Podcast — it's another satirical comedy podcast from Australia. If you like A Rational Fear, you'll love News Fighters.Dylan Behan is one of the best comedy editors in Australia, he's worked on every great comedy TV show over the last 15 years, and now he's turning his brain to making an incredible podcast and YouTube show. A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/Last night at Giant Dwarf we had an absolute cracker of a live show to celebrate our 100th episode of A Rational Fear.Chris Taylor opened all of The Queen's excel files.Alice Fraser tip toed through the mindset of billionaire Elon Musk.Yumi Stynes graciously examined what Eddie McGuire's departure from Collingwood really means.Hamish Blake tries to monetise the Australian Open in ways we've never quite thought about.Lewis Hobba defends Crown Casino in Sydney.Gabbi Bolt proves she's not related to Andrew Bolt.Dan Ilic (me) tries to explain why we should have seen Craig Kelly coming.And Tom Lowndes from Hot Dub Time Machine holds the whole thing together.I hope you enjoy it — it was one of the best live shows we've ever done!(Shout out to new Patreon member Shaun who signed up on the night!)LINK TO PHOTOSHOP TEMPLATE FOR LIBERAL MEME: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ld2208nr7uzz2tu/LIBERAL_MEME_dotEXE.psd?dl=0🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/______________________________________________________Transcript by OTTER.AI:Unknown Speaker  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by the Bertha Foundation.Dan Ilic  0:04  Hey Lewis, welcome to rational fear. Oh my goodness, you're so lovely 100 episodes. Very good. You know what I like about this? This is great doing a live show in the middle of a pandemic. It's fantastic. It's great marketing. I'mUnknown Speaker  0:20  hoping not the middle.Dan Ilic  0:24  three quarter time.Unknown Speaker  0:25  optimistic.Dan Ilic  0:28  I just feel like when people get COVID from here that everyone was how did you get it all went to this podcast. It's got to be bottom three ways to get we have Patreon supporters. I just want to thank our latest Patreon supporter Ben Waller is chipping in for 10 bucks a month. big thank you to Ben. It is great. I understand. We have a couple of Patreon people here. Who from Patreon is here. Yes, thank you. Very good. enjoy that. 20% off. Excellent.Unknown Speaker  0:56  I do two for one ticket. YouUnknown Speaker  0:58  two for one tickets. 50%.Dan Ilic  1:02  We do 20% Yeah. Anyone out there starts getting any fucking ideas. We are recording irrational fear on the land of the gadigal in the urination. sovereignty was never seated. Wait a treaty. Let's stop the show.Unknown Speaker  1:23  irrational fear contains no two words just like bricks. Bricks can rob Finn and section. A rational fear recommends listening likeDan Ilic  1:35  my immature audiences. Tonight Eddie McGuire denies his racist adding he made the trainings ran on time. The World Health Organisation says Coronavirus is unlikely to have leaked from a lab and a devastating blow to conspiracy theorists to listen to facts. And Pauline Hanson calls for the swastika to be banned. It'll dilute her brand. It is the 11th of February 2021. And welcome to the Super Bowl of Australian satirical comedy podcast. This isexcellent. Welcome to rational Fie. I'm your host, former president of the Collingwood football club Dan Ilic. If you're new around here, this is the podcast that takes the saddest stories the weeks and makes jokes about them. Because let's face it, if you didn't laugh, you'd cry. Let's meet our fear mongers for tonight. He's the actor award winning creator of our pride and the actor award losing head writer of at home alone together from the chaser. It's Chris Taylor.Unknown Speaker  2:44  Thank you very much.Chris Taylor  2:46  Great to be here, so you win some you lose some very disappointed not to be nominated for the Golden Globes. But Nautilus Holy moly, soDan Ilic  2:54  I feel good. And in 15 years old, she was expelled from boarding school, which is the only qualification you need to join this show. She's one of Australia's most loved smart asses. It's yummy Stein.Yumi Stynes  3:06  Thank you for having me. You know, I've been reflecting on getting expelled from boarding school. For the last 20 years. I was like, fuck those guys. That was really unfair. And then just recently I've gone. Yeah, it was a beautiful.Dan Ilic  3:18  Welcome. It's good to have you. And 11 years ago, we crashed the VIP section of a Comedy Central Party in New York City to meet john oliver. Then our next guests managed to get a job replacing john oliver on his very own podcast. She always gets what she wants to tell us.Alice Fraser  3:35  So happy to be a dad.Dan Ilic  3:37  Did you crash tonight? Or did you get a ticket?Alice Fraser  3:39  I wasn't invited. I put that in your script.Dan Ilic  3:42  And our next guest tried to move from Melbourne to Sydney while the state borders were closed, which turns out to be just as challenging as moving from one part of Sydney to another part of Sydney. It is heimish bike.Hamish Blake  3:55  Fresh out of the tunnel fresh out of the tunnel.Unknown Speaker  3:59  Lovely to meet you.Dan Ilic  4:00  And he's co hosted over 100 episodes of a satirical comedy podcast, and he's yet to see a cent. It's Louis harbour. Did you say I've co hosted over 100 episodes so I did I made a mistake. Yeah, like well, you guys only too late. Sorry, the 100th episode was weeks ago. That's like you make your mistake, but this was gonna be recorded on a Thursday.Unknown Speaker  4:28  Yes, I didn't realise this was on tonight. I told all of my friends to come tomorrow. That's whyDan Ilic  4:38  we recorded this on a Thursday every Thursday for 18 months. I'm sorry. It's what we're what we had an on deck for the first time in ages. It's DJ Tom. A little later on, you'll meet our musical guests Gabby Boldt. She's really big on Tick Tock. But first here is Message from this week's sponsorUnknown Speaker  5:02  in recognition of leadership change at Collingwood football club. McDonald's is celebrating some of the menu items in producing the McGuire burger spineless chicken fillers in a better protected in a milky white been worth Extra Mile Jeremiah this much source it's guaranteed to leak no matter how you handle it with grill marks painted on relax. It's a little joke. The mediocrity McGuire is basically a good burger but never meant to give anyone that shifts. The next time you visit a McDonald'sUnknown Speaker  5:42  ask for the McGuireUnknown Speaker  5:45  tastes like Yarra waterUnknown Speaker  5:46  never cancel, just not on the board anymore. For online ordering, just go to burgers and highlight the tag that says mee mee mee mee meeUnknown Speaker  5:54  I recommend it to everyone.Dan Ilic  5:58  Well, folks, it is Yes, thank you. Robbie McGregor there, folks, it is 2021 which means we could have an election this year, or we could simply not do and say we did which seems to be the coalition's policy strategy at the moment. Australia's elections kind of like booty calls, they spring up on your the last minute ruin your weekend plans. But if you're lucky, you'll get a sausage. And there is anticipating brewing for booty call 2021 you can see the signs already there already knife shortages in Canberra. It's also very strange, very strange. 2021 labour is so scared that the coalition will bully them on climate change. They're desperate to try and do less on climate change. And the Liberal Party is so scared that the nation and the world will punish them for doing fuck all on climate change that they're desperate to do just the bare minimum on climate change. It's kind of like a pissing contest, but the contestants won't piss. They won't even unzip their pants but insist on building new coal powered toilets. But who said bipartisanship was dead? Here we go. I think there's one thing both parties have their sights on and there is the member of Hughes. His name is Craig Kelly. Now if you thinkHamish Blake  7:14  I mean if you listen to the podcast, huge cheer went up in here but we don't we don't have the audience mics so you can't really hear it.Unknown Speaker  7:25  Stick around.Dan Ilic  7:28  Now if you think he has the look of a flustered director of a furniture company that's gone bankrupt, you're right. He's literally the flustered director of a furniture company that's going bankrupt. Now everyone is annoying to cry because he's kind of like the drunk uncle at the Parliament House Christmas party. He wanders around the backyard, telling you unverified bullshit to anyone who listened stuff like the US Capitol insurrection was a hoax,Alice Fraser  7:56  Neo fascists and Marxists engaged in a highly coordinated false flag operation.Dan Ilic  8:00  And environmentalists started the black summer bushfires.Yumi Stynes  8:05  I wonder if any of those arrested extinction rebellion types trying to fulfil their prophecyUnknown Speaker  8:10  and renewable energy will will drown kids by makingHamish Blake  8:15  swimming lessons more expensive, some parents are going to be unable to afford them. The result being less children having basic swimming and water safety skills, placing them at greater risk of drowning. That is actually spot he's got a boy.Dan Ilic  8:33  Yeah, you can tell him she's done more than 100 podcasts.Unknown Speaker  8:37  One baby tomorrow night you're gonna beDan Ilic  8:42  back in 2016. He even attended a commemoration of Croatia's Nazi allied fascist government the MDH and then proceeded to say this occasionChris Taylor  8:53  on behalf of the Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott, who is now in Japan, I impart you to greetings and good wishes on the occasion of the celebration of April tin to you and all Croatians in Australia and those in Croatia.Dan Ilic  9:08  Not necessarily the best thing. The Australian Ambassador then got pulled into the Croatian parliament to explain what the fuck was going on. I assume the ambassador just put a picture up of the Prime Minister eating an onion and said sorry, we don't know. It's very strange. Now it is. It is a there's a very few things that a politician will get cancelled for in Australia. But being fascist isn't one of them. It turns out spreading lies about COVID on social media is the last straw now over the last year. Craig's Facebook and going he's when I've gone on Sky media. He's just been spreading information misinformation about COVID. All over the place. He's been saying that mandated mass for children is his child abuse. He's been alluding to the anti Vax conspiracy theories about Bill Gates, he's been promoting disproven and unproven COVID-19 treatments like the anti malarial drug hydroxy chloroquine and in the victim, which is actually a horse de wormer. It won the prize for removing parasites something that scomo might like to win a little later on if we removed some parasites from his own party. Kelly even went on celebrity chef and problematic kendal's podcast paid Evans's podcast for an hour and a half. I just spoke bullshit about conspiracy theories. Now I listened to it, so you didn't have to any he said a whole bunch of stuff. That wasn't news. But I think Pete broke some news.Unknown Speaker  10:30  Very wise words and very truthful words, Craig.Pete Evans  10:34  It looks like I'm going to throw my hat into the ring and join the political movement and see speak. See what see what happens from that. I had no expectations when you sit in a big room or Western at the back of the room where you can see everything.Unknown Speaker  10:50  I'll give you a tip.Dan Ilic  10:52  I don't think that's why you sit in the back of the room.Hamish Blake  10:56  You're on at the back like my daughter is when she's driving the car.Dan Ilic  11:03  Folks, do you have any tips for Pete Evans as he heads into the world of politics citiesHamish Blake  11:07  I feel like he's nailed his slogan there. expectations that willDan Ilic  11:16  be a good time to down to just Evans know.Chris Taylor  11:21  The Evans party for people who think Pauline Hanson is far too sensible.Alice Fraser  11:25  I reckon seven minutes in Evans.Chris Taylor  11:29  They should only put a candidate in barn by surely likeHamish Blake  11:34  surely I'd like to see someone come out there because you know, political slogans or like they often just like you know, hey, we can do it or you know, whatever, you know, like jump on board or for a progressive turn. I'd like to see him get defensive because he knows everyone's against him like a slogan that says something like you're the fucking crackpot.Just in your fucking weird. dead on the front foot. Spray paint if you're listening, and I know you do.Dan Ilic  12:01  None of this would be a problem if Craig Kelly was just your uncle, but he's not. He's an MP with a huge social media presence that is actually bigger and more powerful than the Prime Minister's own social media presence. It's worse than letting your uncle loose on Tinder. Craig's already swiped far right? It's terrible. After the PM, was asked about this at the National Press Club last week, he was there to see if he's going to do something about Craig, this is how scomo replied,Unknown Speaker  12:26  You don't get to create Craig Kelly.Unknown Speaker  12:29  He's not my doctor, and he's not yours.Unknown Speaker  12:34  He's pretty happy with that one isDan Ilic  12:38  Spoken like a man youUnknown Speaker  12:40  are in the room to laugh.Dan Ilic  12:43  But after a brief confrontation with Labour MP Tanya plibersek, in the halls of Parliament House, there was a big announcement in Canberra. Of course, Canberra fucking loves announcements that the Prime Minister pulled Craig Kelly into his office and gave him a dressing down now. Sorry, if I've given you a visual of Craig Kelly dressing down there. I'm really sorry about that. FEMA has any idea about what that conversation with scomo and Craig Kelly, and the office was all about or what they said to each other? You gotta say sorry. Oh, come on.Yumi Stynes  13:19  Up. It's time to time get out there and fucking say sorry.Hamish Blake  13:24  Just a bit of like, double check. You don't actually my doctor are making all these gags in the press guy and they're going well, but you're not actually.Alice Fraser  13:34  Actually the thing about homoeopathy is the list. I'm your doctor, the more I'm your doctor.Unknown Speaker  13:42  He onlyDan Ilic  13:42  got him off Facebook for a very short amount of time. It lasted 36 hours.Hamish Blake  13:50  That was a that was a scomo enforced ban. It wasn't a Facebook enforcement.Dan Ilic  13:54  No it was like steady six hours I wonder if he was just like look Okay y'all Facebook I'll introduce you to tick tock and then it was just cry just like punching buttons for 36 hoursHamish Blake  14:07  it does scream a bit of like that's it no screen time for a week. DanielUnknown Speaker  14:12  spreads misinformationUnknown Speaker  14:17  All right, well, all of thatHamish Blake  14:20  you really think about it after that.Chris Taylor  14:24  I was just glad he did you know he also was banned from only fans.Hamish Blake  14:28  No, he wasn't. VPN and you guys addressing New ZealandDan Ilic  14:37  now actually happened to have a recording of of what went happened, what happened in that office, but I can't actually play it for legal reasons. So I've had to do a dramatisation for the day das, who does a lot of the voices on this show plays Scott Morrison but because there are so many Hollywood shows and movies happening in Australia right now. There are no actors I could get in Australia, they're all booked. So I have to go to Hollywood to find the best commercial How to Play cried Kelly.Unknown Speaker  15:06  cried cry, just come in and sit down and play on your iPad for 20 minutes then I'll put out a release that you can repost on Facebook. Okay? Ah, great start date. Great One hydroxychloroquine now, sorry, Mike. Thanks to the billion forex in the fridge. Please use my desk. It's four metres squared from everyone else in the office. You're amazing. pfriem shibo you're a believer. Yes, Mike. That's right. Mainstream are where the votes are. But voters like the Sharpies. I like the Sharpies. Godspeed. I wish right you're that deep state might might there is no deep state. When times was in charge. It was Peter. You're friends with the deep state you make TV with the deep state trying to silence me. I have freedom of speech. Craig now I'm not silencing you. But Shut up. Now you're free to say whatever you want to after the election when you act like a goose I look like a good this year. I'm having a no goose policy. I'm gonna stop the geese Have a look at this. What is this a turbo that's right Good boy. And what does it say? I stopped the guy you can read well that's good. Now I'll get you one of these with your face on it. Great wines trophy face get good now only if you quiet and stop posting rubbish Now give me one good reason not to drop you from Hugh's Facebook friend hi char tape from n guy Dean make dogs Vladimir Oh gee below mice is no type you did it. I have deniability for Facebook stream.Unknown Speaker  17:11  Battery dead I'm sure pad.Unknown Speaker  17:15  your iPad is dead. Well charge it and you can pick it up tomorrow from PETA. Yes. Really good judges in there. Only if you're a good boy, Craig. galley. Good boy. Good boy.Unknown Speaker  17:30  Great. ComeUnknown Speaker  17:31  back tomorrow. fudge rose. That's a bloody good idea might now Fuck off.Dan Ilic  17:40  That's Gilbert godfried everyone.Chris Taylor  17:46  A high profile impression a very good impressionDan Ilic  17:52  that he's the thing we shouldn't actually be surprised about Craig Kelly at all because we have known this was gonna happen from the very start of Craig Kelly's career. If the bankrupt furniture store wasn't a red flag, perhaps this line in Craig Kelly's maiden speech should have been over the years I've packed my head into many rugby Scrum. Although no doubt some would say maybe one Scrum to me.Right now, with more about how we keep our politicians more accountable. It's Gabby bolts Aaron getmyboatGabbi Bolt  18:35  I've actually never done a comedy said before. That's true. Sir. Please pity me.What the Australian Government needs is a Karen a crop chop nitpicking Nightmare on the parliament floor. Because as someone who used to work in retail, I've seen them leave a nasty email about how I am supposed to do my job. But when you need a Karen most that's when they vanish. Like on Craig Kelly's COVID Facebook posts that nowhere to be found. But if Karen was feeling ill and doc said try this radical, untested pill. Well, I'd bet 10 bucks she'd take his licence down. You hear tales of Karen's far and wide, getting barista sacked because they put too much which cream on my triple mocha frappe. You see Karen's demanding manages in your average grocery store. So where are they when they need to see the biggest manager of normalised caring culture in politics They've gone on for too long getting people fired for weightless go to redirect their attention to when national intervention I can give you Craig Kelly's email address normalised Karen culture in Parliament's when people act irresponsibly on the job. Call them out with the same fervour as a teenage fast food worker who had the audacity to get your order wrong.Unknown Speaker  20:55  The microphoneUnknown Speaker  20:58  now,Chris Taylor  20:59  thanks for having me down. This is a genuine treat to be part of the hundreds I think me and Alice within part of the very first ones. And it's amazing that it's had this run like cereal didn't eat get close to 100 a teacher's pet not trying hard enough. So no, it's great to be here. I'm gonna talk about the Royals. Now without wanting to conform to social stereotypes, I was reading the Guardian this week.And there was this bombshell report about how the Queen lobby to have the Lord changed to keep the details of her personal wealth hidden. So basically, the UK Parliament was trying to pass transparency laws so the public would know exactly how much the monarchy spent of public money, but the Queen's lawyers, I think she was raped by Rudy Giuliani. They, they managed to overturn the law so we don't know how much he spends and what on That is, until tonight, ladies and gentlemen here the john Doerr theatre, I have the official list of the royal families expenses, which I'm more than happy to share with you tonight. Now just for background, the Queen gets an annual salary it's about $97 million a year fair $97 million taxpayer money. She's also on job keeping. Prince Charles's annoyance. With one woman he doesn't want to keep her job. So he then in no particular order other palaces expenses for the last financial year. 40,000 pounds on Uber Eats usually uneaten because Nando's in London still don't do very, very pheasant. It's downhill from that wasUnknown Speaker  23:00  over 100 episodes that must be like your 70th pheasant, JoeChris Taylor  23:05  Welcome to 71 80,000 pounds on getaway cars at the annual Royal Variety Performance. Anything to avoid small talk with Susan Boyle afterwards 50,000 pounds racial awareness training for Prince Philip. Unfortunately, his tutor was Eddie McGuire. Progress was slow $1 million retainer for elton john to keep him pumping out new versions of candle in the wind.The principle of one decades ago 200,000 pounds on developing a new dating app especially for Royals. It's like Tinder but only let you match with cousins. 4 million pounds. legal fees for Prince Andrew two pounds media training for Prince Sandra 600,000 pounds lobbying the Commonwealth of Australia to get Holy Moly off the air. 2 million pounds on an ambitious pay a lot this one ambitious paid project of the claim to crossbreed horses with corgis to create her ultimate spirit animal. The hoagie her intention was to create kind of cute fun sized horses the size of a Corgi, but what she ended up with instead was grotesque corgis, the size of a Clydesdale. All of them were discreetly put down except one which was kicked around Megan Markel out of the country. 15 million pounds on the upkeep of antiquated buildings and relics from bygone eras such as Hampton Court, Sandra Nichols And Mark record 6000 pounds paid to the actress who plays Diana on the Netflix series The Crown for her weekly recreations of the Ballymena scenes, performed for the whole family's enjoyment every Sunday after church. That's just for my wife. We love this.Unknown Speaker  25:23  NowChris Taylor  25:25  50,000 pounds sexism awareness training for Prince Philip. Unfortunately his tutor was at McGuire. Progress was slow. 6 million pounds on bribing gamebirds to fall to the ground pretending they've been shot during all the prince Philip's shooting and they keep planes in even when they've served for dinner later on their amazing commitment to the row.Dan Ilic  25:49  What sort of game birds Chris maybe like a pheasant grouse?Chris Taylor  25:56  All right. 100,000 pounds on TV development. This one's quite weird. See after the success of its a royal knockout, Prince Edward spent all of last year developing royal Ninja Warrior. There's also a royal maffs, which is basically this Charles and Camilla dry humping on a beach for an hour. JOHN Howard called it the romantic fieldwood hit 50,000 pounds on training for Prince Philip in how to exit a long reign with dignity. Unfortunately, his tutor was Eddie McGuire. And finally 17 million pounds paid to lawyers to make sure the public never gets wind of the secret that the woman who lives in that massive palace might actually have a bit of coin. I mean, sure the face is literally on all the money But please, let's not ever jump to conclusions that our hands are on as well.Dan Ilic  26:56  What would you like to know about how the Queen actually spends her money? It's weird because it's weird that she tries to hide it because it's not like we don't know she's rich.Unknown Speaker  27:10  It's such an expensive hobby.Dan Ilic  27:13  I'd say most everyone who goes to London The first thing I do is go to her house.Hamish Blake  27:19  In the middle of town Yeah. And look at the jewels. The crown. What's theDan Ilic  27:29  LSU LSU you spend a lot of time in London you've lived there you live with the queen?Hamish Blake  27:35  What's the craziest thing you saw blood cash on?Unknown Speaker  27:40  Keeping Prince Philip alive?Dan Ilic  27:43  27 do you think you know Australia should be paying royalties to the Queen based on us using her picture on the money we have?Alice Fraser  27:50  Look, I think we all have an agreement in Australia which is that we're going to become a republic eventually when she dies. Like we're just going to be polite until she dies and then we're not going to have Charles on our moneyChris Taylor  28:00  or do you think she's really shitty that everyone taps now and we don't use money? Is she lobbying the credit card companies to get a face on that as well? ActuallyHamish Blake  28:07  the visa dove is way more fancy. Is it the MasterCard? What's the hologram beauty products? The hologram on the visa okay all right. But you know like sometimes you're gonna net banking and it will go like you spent this much this month on like health care or like you know, utilities I would like like the real specific breakdown for the quaint like the just the bits of the real weird stuff. I don't think we know like a break us a lot to keep the house and the horses and stuff like that's obviously expensive. But you want weird stuff like you want to know if she bought VR? Or like, just got just dumb stuff. I don't know. But all the purchases past 10 o'clock. 10 o'clock like do I amChris Taylor  28:54  Jean session on eBay.Alice Fraser  28:58  Uber Eats order.Hamish Blake  28:59  I would like to know the breakdown on that.Alice Fraser  29:00  Yeah, I want to see the map of the person driving round and round trying to figure out how to get in.Dan Ilic  29:04  Yeah, she just sheChris Taylor  29:06  walked out to the gate to pick it up personally. is a servant have to bringHamish Blake  29:11  it up. Nice. I think it's still leave and go. No, no, we won't be vaccinated. leave and go.Dan Ilic  29:17  Do you think they have to pay for Netflix to get the crown?Hamish Blake  29:22  I mean, there's gotta be some role.Dan Ilic  29:25  And is that where royalties comes from? Yes.Ladies and gentlemen.Yumi Stynes  29:43  All right. You all know what happened, but I'm gonna run you through the facts. Anyway. Yesterday media personality Eddie McGuire stood down as Collingwood football club president after 23 years on the job. He was sad. He was fucking sad. his resignation speech which went for 15 minutes and was mostly a lengthy self congratulating listicle of what he has achieved contain no real apology, although an apology was actually what was needed. So this resignation from yesterday morning was the lightest in a cascading series of events. The event that led to yesterday's resignation was an open letter calling for his resignation. Prior to that event, the event was the leak of a commission report on the culture of racism at the Collingwood football club researched and written by indigenous academic Professor Larissa Behrendt. Now, the event that led to the commissioning of that report was complaints of racism by former Collingwood star player Heredia Lumumba. So we're four links up the chain before we get to the hero of the story, surprise, surprise, it's not Eddie McGuire. So Geraldo Lumumba started playing for Collingwood, 2004 as an 18 year old. His background is mixed race, Congolese and Brazilian and he speaks fluent Portuguese, he's black, he's handsome, and he's a shithead football player. But even though he was charismatic, fair and really popular with fans, and as I mentioned, a shithead football player. His career at Collingwood stalled when he started calling out the racism that he saw is endemic to the culture of his own club. And it was then that he started to be frozen out of leadership positions ostracised by the people in charge, and had unfounded whispers of madness and mental illness from his own club amplified by a complicit media. Lumumba left Collingwood in 2014 after 199 games. Now coming here tonight, I didn't really want to talk about how to Lumumba and Eddie McGuire because talking about racism for anyone who's experienced it is actually never comfortable. I also do want to talk about it because I don't follow football. So if you ask me some stats, I'm not gonna be on a budget. And I didn't want to talk about it. Because every time I'm actually confronted in the real world by racism, I actually get like a physical, almost spidey sense, tingling in my lower back that it's sort of like a queasy, unpleasant feeling. And sometimes the feeling comes before the mental processes can catch up. I attended a talk a few years ago by American philosopher and activist Dr. Cornel West, who came to Australia. He's a Harvard professor and a black man. And what he said like he said a bunch of cool stuff. But one thing he said I've never forgotten. It was something along the lines of I'm still overcoming my own racism. I'm still learning. I like everyone else. I'm a product of the world we live in. And he's like an old man, he's 67 years old. And that actually made me feel better. Because I'm imperfect. I'm still learning and we all are. Like, imagine, okay, imagine you're on the street in your own suburb, and a stranger comes up to you and asks if they can borrow your phone. She's a 35 year old white woman. And you're like, yeah, sure I use my phone. But what if she's a 35 year old white woman who's really skinny has dirty hair is scratching herself and wearing head to toe tracksuit, in mid summer. Would you still let it use your phone? So we're always kind of casting value judgments on people. It's not necessarily always racial. It's based on how they look all the time. We do it all the time. It's just really tough. If you're copying it because of something that you can't help so you can't help your heroin habit. But you also really can't help the colour of your skin and it's infuriating when that's how people judge you. So I thought, things that I thought were okay, five years ago, I realised now I'm not okay. And I'm guessing that in another five years, I'll look back at the year me now and cringe at how unworthy I am. I am still learning. But is Eddie.I've always been super interested. It's like my hobby. Watching the way that people who are racist are blind to their own racism. It's almost cute. It's like a toddler wandering around. Like I'm the kind of where they are. And if it's pointed out to them, their first response is pretty much always defensiveness, they get really upset. And I get it. And I'm so interested in this reaction. And the flip side of that is the people who see racism first. Always the people who experience it the most and the worst, which is why indigenous people are often at that intersection of racism and a bunch of other prejudices that make their experiences way worse than you or I could imagine. And this is not my hobby. Like it's not talking about race. Islam is really, really thankless when people talk about that day that Nicky winmar lifted his shirt and pointed to his black skin. I know, you know, that moment. They're describing an iconic moment that was turned into an iconic photo, which has been immortalised as an iconic statue. But they're forgetting, I think that when Mark himself said to the photographer who took that iconic photo, I appreciate that you've changed my life. But for me, I'm having to embrace possibly one of the worst days of my life over and over again. So when he did that he wasn't having a great time. And every time he sees that he's taken right back to that moment of being booed, and having horrible things, shout out to him. Talking about racism, as I said, is thankless. You have to convince people first of all, that it exists. And when I say people, I mean, white people, and trying to convince white people that racism exists is sometimes like convincing people in the dark ages that they're breathing something that it's real, it's called oxygen. It's a sound like what are you talking about. And then you're expected to prove your own credentials by explaining your own experiences of racism, which is not only painful, but it feels like if you start nominating and isolating and describing single incidents, you're in danger of leaving behind hundreds, sometimes 1000s of times that racism existed, but was so micro so unremarked upon that it was very much like the air we breathe. So if I were to try and well really to try very hard not to try and find parody between my experiences and bombas. But if I were to try and dig into, say, the first time that I was called a chink, a nip, a jab or a goog, I might leave behind the times that I was expected, as a seven year old Australian to apologise for World War Two. Or by trying to explain how being Asian has happened, my career, my or my love life or my earning capacity, I might accidentally minimise the hundreds of death threats that people have made against me over the years. And for what have they made those death threats is an interesting question. And I think that anyone who's ever had many people threaten to kill them. They have sat with the why, for quite a long time. And I think if I had to distil The reason why I inspired hatred in enough people that they would send me murderous and quite descriptive and detailed death threats, then I think that the reason I could fairly say was because I did to question the manhood and authority of a white male or authority figure as a non white person. Eddie McGuire, by the way, is the guy who said Adam Goodes should do the promotion for King Kong. And when Heredia Lumumba called him out about it, he said, This is what Lumumba said himself, people made it very clear to me that I'd done the wrong thing that I'd thrown the president of Collingwood under a bus, almost making him out to be the victim. So whether we've grown as a nation and learned from this painful saga is going to be shown in the post Collingwood Korea of Eddie McGuire. Because usually, I've seen it enough times I can predict it. When the shit goes down. The brown person gets blamed. And the white person goes on to have a great career in politics.Dan Ilic  38:44  Have a letter that went out Monday and then he got the step down on Tuesday. That's right. Yeah. That must be feel pretty powerful for that moment.Yumi Stynes  38:52  Did it feel good, but I don't want people to confuse his resignation for cleansing of the entire football culture that made him thrive.Dan Ilic  39:01  Yeah. Do you think this is kind of a you know, this is a very public moment for Eddie McGuire. But do you think a lot of organised organisations all around the country are looking at this going Fuck, we need to fucking clean up as sharp.Chris Taylor  39:14  The worry is they'll do the reverse because this sort of all came out as a result of them deciding to launch an investigation into the culture. I want I'm nervous that some companies might go well it doesn't turn out well when you do that. So maybe we're just sort of keep momDan Ilic  39:28  Yeah, which is a shame because I don't I think if that the release of that report had been handled better like their release the fuck up was saying this is a proud day. This is a shameful day and we're gonna work on it. I don't think maybe we would be in that situation with like, Oh shit, we shouldn't even look at it. But they're on the on the backfoot from the get go because that report was handed to them in december two months, and it took ages for it was leaked to an investigative journalist and then they were gonna leak it they were trying to get ahead of the story. And fucking nothing ever goes well when you try to get ahead of the story.Chris Taylor  40:00  So How bad is it? Like you mentioned the Adam Goodstein, which was just horrendous, and unpardonable. I can't believe he survived that. And the thing that brought him down was just a slip of the tongue. And he's like, made a dressUnknown Speaker  40:11  dress. Like that'sYumi Stynes  40:12  not what brought him down. And I disagree with you, Louis. I think like saying it's a proud that I think it was just like, he was trying to say, I'm proud that we're doing something about this. No, he's just playing with words, saying that that's what's brought him down. It's it's 23 years of races, leadership that's brought him down.Unknown Speaker  40:28  I certainly wasn't saying that's what brought him down. I was just saying in terms of the release of the report. I think, like, I just Well, I mean,Chris Taylor  40:36  that the media fixated on Yeah, way more attention than warranted, given the history of the background of that report.Alice Fraser  40:44  I sort of feel sorry for these guys a little bit, because they got away with it for so long. It's like every week you robbed the bank, and then all of a sudden you get arrested and you're like, I was wrong the whole time.Dan Ilic  40:57  I think Ben, Ben Lowe had a great tweet today about it. He said, If entitled white women who complained to the manager or Karen's, I think Australians can agree entitled white men who feel that their true victims of systemic racism, and now it is do you think this is gonna change leadership power vision of operating aroundYumi Stynes  41:19  the country? If so? I don't think so. But I think when people are racist, they don't know they're doing it. Most of the time, they're unaware. So I think No, and I think also, as usual, the brown person in the room is always the minority in this country, unfortunately. So when Lumumba was creating problems, and putting up quote, fingers there, the solution that's easier for the white guys in charge is to nominate that guy and go, let's get him out. He's a troublemaker which has happened to me. Shut your mouth, get her off the TV, she's creating problems, it's easier to just not have them on stage.Dan Ilic  41:55  Can we talk a little bit about that for a second? That moment on Studio 10, the infamous moment where you were saying some very truthful things about how Aboriginal people have lower life expectancy and stuff like that. And Kerri Anne Kennerley went you were talking about the truth, learning, getting Australians to learn our truth about Australia Day. And what's really powerful moment there were and there must have been so confusing for you at that moment to kind of go well, I'm just saying some very, very truthful things.Unknown Speaker  42:24  Just fax guy.Dan Ilic  42:26  What are you yelling at me for and how do they seem to have this employed my life for a month? Yeah,Yumi Stynes  42:30  that one was okay. I've been through other sheet storms that are way worse, at least with that one. I knew that I hadn't said anything wrong.Dan Ilic  42:41  As I've had a 15 year career and I've made some very bad things on television that I'm very not I'm not proud of and thankfully no longer exist. Thank you for talking about this tonight.Unknown Speaker  43:03  Hello,Alice Fraser  43:04  let's talk about money. I'm gonna do my verbal exercises first for talking about money. short sell seashells with a stacked deck on the stock floor. And the deck that she stacks is shorted for sure. Let's all stop GameStop stock stacking up in the GameStop shop. Bobby Bitcoin back to stock of pickled crypto, how many stocks of pickled crypto did Bobby Bitcoin back.So this month marks month that we all found out a short squeeze is not just a pelvic floor exercise. People honour it if you don't know the GameStop story people on a Reddit board took exception to some big hedge fund guys short selling a bricks and mortar game shop called GameStop sparking 1000 hot takes about the little man taking back the power from the big man by corruptly manipulating the market in the way that is traditionally reserved for those too big to fail in those too big to jail. It was nice to watch hedge fund managers, managers scramble and it was an excellent example of how a system which is constantly jerking itself off with its libertarian money based meritocratic purity purity rhetoric really collapses when the people join in. I don't want to spend too much time explaining the stock market because I want to give a chance to the 1000s of young men who love explaining the stock market.currently doing so online This is their one opportunity to tell everyone about their kink when people won't just tune out and nod politely. But it's such an old move that it was so celebrated. I think we can all agree that the perfect vengeance against the accountably at the against the unaccountably wealthy is to pour money into the systems that enrich them. As we all know Robin Hood stole from the rich to give to the poor so they could pay rent to the rich. This is called a stimulus check. So these Reddit guys, these mostly young, mostly men who like to think of themselves as V from V for Vendetta or the Joker, because they lack imagination. They became the ultimate news cycle fertiliser despite the fact that they're basically a bunch of guys with nothing better to do using their spare time and spare money to upvote cool seeming memes with cash. Speaking of which, co founder and CEO of inspiringly innovative and astoundingly overvalued electric car company Tesla. Elon Musk has recently stirred the stock markets by using the imaginary money he's made from people thinking his company will make more money than it will to buy into bitcoin, the most imaginary money. He talked about it publicly before, during and after the transaction while declaring that he couldn't talk about it because it might move the stock market, which it promptly did. This is the rhetorical technique of negotiation where you say what you're not going to do while doing it. Like I won't call my esteemed opposition, a dirty cop quote with a barely legal mistress. Saying what he's not going to do while doing it is Elon Musk's fourth favourite thing to do after his third favourite thing which is saying what he is going to do while not doing his second favourite thing, which is investing money in revolutionary moonshots like firing a car into space or putting chips in monkey brains while being defended by a certain kind of guy who loves to tell me about how wrong I am about Elon Musk. while simultaneously missing every point I'm actually making. Look, Elon Musk does some great stuff. Don't get me wrong, it's nice to see a sci fi nerd do well, you can't. He can't help admiring musk for his ambition. He basically single handedly gave a cash boost to the incredibly expensive enterprise of hardware prototyping in a world where it's much cheaper and easier to stick with iterating software good on him. Also, if this goes well, there are potentially world changing implications for a lot of the technology he invests in and takes credit for so maybe my issue with him is mostly aesthetic. And I don't mean aesthetics in that his head looks like it's made of meat and then all our heads are made of meat but his looks like it's more made of meat. He's JC he's a man of binaries. He's a man who's simultaneously very inspiring entrepreneur operating at a leading edge of science so far ahead of the time that he's either a business genius or a very successful performance artist. It's It's just that he's always in the news for doing something either extremely cool and futuristic, or undeniable, lead dystopian, and probably both. The moral of this story is money. Men be money Manning changing little for real people while smugly congratulating themselves on being the revolution. One of the richest men in the world buying big into an untraceable unregulated currency that can't be taxed is not a cool rebel movie. It's the beginning of a James Bond movie villain storyline. It is the wild fantasy of nerds who wish they were brave enough to be assholes. Elon Musk is a baby's idea of a grown up in the same way disrupting the market by throwing your collective collective Reddit weight behind a troll ship post investment is the equivalent of critiquing social media in an eight great paragraph Facebook posts in the end it's all about ethics in video game stock market journalism Thank youDan Ilic  48:30  podcasts on the way here and they said Elon Musk and move 20% of the of the cryptocurrency market just by tweeting something that's incredibleHamish Blake  48:39  if I canAlice Fraser  48:43  thing is that like Bitcoin as a as a concept is like this idea of this, you know, blockchain whatever, blah, blah, blah. More than 50% of the Bitcoin mining capacity is controlled by China, the most worrying governmentUnknown Speaker  48:57  honestly, the last few weeks, I've been so happy to not have any money it's the first time in my life I've been like thank Fuck, I'm poor. And I don't have to care about any of this.Hamish Blake  49:09  I mean, I know this is this is not new news for anyone but like the whole point of Bitcoin is it's like decentralised and there is no 100 Bitcoin you can call it a complaint. There's no head office, which is a bummer because on our podcast on any podcast, five years ago, I bought two bitcoins for $900 each way and they were like a funny thing to own. And just like I've made this investment, they made this investment and then our web guy Jessica's really, really understand how to do it, he lost them, he lost the passwords. And you can't call up or write them a letter to go. I know everyone saying this, but I really had some Bitcoins. And we have two out there which are worth 120, grand, Old Joe, and we tried to hypnotise jazz to get because he's like, hop on and then only maybe books anyway and we made him sit in the studio with a hypnotist. As the best we got was him in a trance like state going capital B i t capital C. Hashtag one two, maybe exclamation mark. And so yeah, we've awesome except I'm kind of glad they stayed last because it is funny that we've lost 100 because we tried to sell them The only reason we found out last is we tried to sell them when they're at 15 $100 going well, they never get any higher. We wanted to buy a convertible drive through a carwash and we wouldn't have been the guyDan Ilic  50:31  that cashed outHamish Blake  50:33  three grand on its way to 120 grand because we wanted to drive an old Ford Capri throughDan Ilic  50:40  a car wash. There's a guy there's a story of in the UK of a guy who's trying to get a hydraulic Yeah, get up find a laptop in a in a tip. Yeah. And he's got 120 million pounds ofHamish Blake  50:54  Bitcoin everyone's just like Ivan's hoarding them not holding them. Like, locked up. It's like this big, like virtual Fort Knox that's out there when no one can get in and everyone's like, no one's selling.Alice Fraser  51:09  Well think about it being untraceable though is it leads to criminal behaviour like that man who has Oh, sorry. Yeah.So there was there are these Wi Fi enabled penis cages that you can do? Yeah, sorry. Yeah, sorry. So so you know, some people like to have strangers or friends tell them that they can't jerk off? Sure. I've been asked me if he if I do that for him. And I said, Please don't sexualize me not wanting to fuck you. But apparently this man has hacked in and locked people's penis cages and asked for Bitcoin ransom in order to unlock their penis cages.Unknown Speaker  51:48  On a plus note, remember a golf Ed said out of bankruptcy.Hamish Blake  51:53  My wife is always like, what are you doing this? I always have a paper clip just need to pick the line.Alice Fraser  52:02  If you need to, if you need to incentivize remembering a password, can I suggestHamish Blake  52:08  to get a Wi Fi enabled one. I mean, if you're gonna start with a famous guy, just start and just go gently into it.Dan Ilic  52:19  Before we head to a short intermission, many people have asked me one question in the lead up tonight. About Gabby, Gabby, she led to Andrew Poe and I said well, I don't know maybe maybe Gabby could answer this question.Gabbi Bolt  52:32  My whole life has been building to this moment. My dad will be proud. He's not Andrew my dad's not Angie. Anyone like a samba? Let's get one thing straight. I'm not related to my dad always said he's a part of the Dutch bolts. I don't know how much of that is true. But even if I were I would treat it like a curse and sprint to the nearest courthouse to be disowned. It really makes you wonder what his actual family think is Christmas or disaster when he opens his mouth to speak. I guess what I am saying is easy to digest when you treat him like a drunk uncle, unless like a journalist. Because at this point, all I can really do is love because if I don't love ice cream, how did we let it get so far? How did we let it get so extreme? We have racist and rapist apologists becoming mainstream opinion columnist just another fuckin morning in the Murdoch machine. Thank you. We're gonna play a game because I was too lazy to write a second bus and dad gave me four days. So all the following things that are racist relative of mine has said it a Christmas dinner or an Andrew bolt headline. I didn't plan who would answer these questions. I felt like I just let the room feel it out. Cool. Facts no longer count in climate debate. We're gonna get along great. This game is great. Why I'm leaving Melbourne for gorgeHamish Blake  54:24  Hey, Miss Blake. Andrew,Gabbi Bolt  54:29  just yell bolts cuz that's also my family. So just give it a nice song. And true. All right.Unknown Speaker  54:36  Yes. And it was also Yep, that was public.Gabbi Bolt  54:39  Calm no pills jail diary is a revelation. Yeah, it'd be a bit rough if that one was my relative. Gabby Holy shit. You need to get your life together. You can't just keep on playing gigs with people you don't know and making no money at all. Speaking of is this paidI would be funny if that one was Andrew but that was actually my relativeUnknown Speaker  55:14  it's so him to be black.Gabbi Bolt  55:17  Definitely Andrew Jesus Christ by Well, anyway, this one's a bit hard. Okay, so it's really hard I've really blurred the lines between my family dinner and a public headline so just really listen out. Why do elderly Australian men get in jail?JOHN everyone, you could all work for News Corp.Unknown Speaker  55:48  Cuz at this pointGabbi Bolt  55:49  all I can really do is laugh cuz if I don't laugh I scream. When publications often twisted tales the centre right the one for human rights becomes extreme. Because now that ethical media is dead. The Twitter newsfeed every day feels like a bullet to the head just another fuckin morning in the Murdoch machine. Though I know it's easy. Thank you to love it'll off as comedy. I know if I defended paedophiles publicly. I'd be slammed on my socials, I'd be out of a job. So how can he do it and still be paid at the top? Because it's not just fault. He is simply one cog in the misguidedly marvelled Machiavellian massively Marshall million dollar Murdoch machine.Dan Ilic  56:52  Just want to say thanks to the Daily Telegraph for reviewing this show. Really glad that you're here. All right, welcome to second half irrational fear. We're about to kick it off. So, of course, you know, to pay our exorbitant bills. We need to run another sponsorship ad, so let's take it away sponsor.Unknown Speaker  57:12  Standby for an announcement about announcements from the Commonwealth of Australia, the federal government to secure the COVID-19 vaccine football Australians is what we hope you picked up from the news this week. We haven't yet but we announced it. How good would that be? Just like the $2 billion national bushfire recovery fund that only existed in your brain the moment we announced it now that science and not to mention getting the arts industry back on their feet with a Coronavirus stimulus package that we haven't delivered. That was a really good announcement. We did it ages ago. Guy Sebastian was there. And he looks at the federal government announcing things because doing things is the state's responsibility as my son was being crushed, because I have to read these ads to stay alive regardless of my own political opinion.Unknown Speaker  58:06  very rational.Dan Ilic  58:09  Very good. Excellent, excellent. Now I don't know if you folks saw this today, the Minister of Health, Greg hunt, was on ABC News breakfast this morning talking about the vaccine rollout. When Michael Rutland seem a pretty simple question about why the Liberal Party was using the Liberal Party logo on the announcement about the Commonwealth Government vaccine rollout. Anyway, have a look at this. Greg hunt wasn't very happy with that ChristianHamish Blake  58:36  break up when you announce the very welcome 10 million additional doses of Pfizer on your social media channels last week. Why did you feel the need to attach a Liberal Party logo to an Australian government announcement?Unknown Speaker  58:49  Well, in fact, we made the Australian Government announcement as the government with the Prime Minister. wrong views I've notUnknown Speaker  58:56  ever knowDan Ilic  58:58  why I'll finish I'll finish if you let me. Because we predicted that you seem to be the most exercised of any person in the Australian media about this. So I was elected under that banner, multiple members from across multiple parties do that. I'm a very proud member of that party with a great heritage and tradition in Australia. And that's part of the Australian democratic process. So overwhelmingly, we do these things as the Australian Government on a particular channel. There's no problem with identifying entirely appropriately within the rules, the origins and heritage of that under that banner under which we were electedUnknown Speaker  59:39  by the Australian Australian government announcement who paid for the vaccine.Unknown Speaker  59:45  Let us draw a clear distinction here. I know this is an issue for you. In many ways. You identify with the left you do this a lot and I respect No no,Unknown Speaker  59:56  no I IUnknown Speaker  59:59  find that appealing If I'm asking you exercise about what he'sDan Ilic  1:00:03  doing he doesn't identify you with the left arm exercise you should be open about that I'm open about my origin wow now the liberals kind of do this kind of stuff all the time I don't know if you remember during the bush fires they put out a video saying that the deployed the army this was about three months into the bush fire so everything was already burnt out. So that was really good. I'm I don't know about you folks. I'm okay with this. I don't mind dead but as long as they put their logo on every single achievements that they do, I've made a few social media posts they can do to get started. Here we go. Liberal Party secures Australia's largest dose of national debt ever. Labour Party secures women's change room for liberal electorate despite not having Women's rugby team. This one's good Liberal Party steals money from poor people using robot that makes lots of arrows. This one's a little off the game but still I like it Liberal Party use the AFP to investigate Greg hunter for liking a tweet from BB w comm pumper 69. And we never heard about it again. And if you're listening to the podcast, you can go to the show notes and download a template where you can do your own.Alice Fraser  1:01:16  That was such a weird interaction. And not just because of the fact that it was super weird, but because he was all like talkingChris Taylor  1:01:23  about the company.Alice Fraser  1:01:26  Because he was obviously trying to turn it into a culture war thing. But he was using this like super loaded, like my heritage, the heritage of the Liberal Party I identify with, like it was really as though they'd done something racist.Dan Ilic  1:01:40  Yeah. It's always good to hedge your bets, I think. Yeah, it's just nice to see the liberals trying identity politics for once.Chris Taylor  1:01:48  I mean, as someone who knows Michael Rowland, he is actually one of the least lift people. Like it was Kerry O'Brien, fair enough, like this is genuinely insidious. And it's following a pattern. It's sort of borrowing from trumpism, where when they know they've done something wrong, there's strategies to attack the media straightaway and to discredit the media, and I hope the electorate see through because it's really, really bad.Dan Ilic  1:02:10  Lewis is someone that works at the ABC who's got a full time job you want to come in.Hamish Blake  1:02:17  You do identify with that. That particular station, which there was a squiggly triumvirate into twining,Alice Fraser  1:02:26  I think ABC has a proud heritage.Unknown Speaker  1:02:33  well established,Dan Ilic  1:02:35  I feel much more comfortable with you guys doing this. Well, folks, this is the 100th episode of irrational fear. It's pretty great. I think it's actually 100. Second, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter, it doesn't matter. So hopefully, you will just be a little bit self indulgent. We started this show at rational fi in 2012. because there wasn't a place to do jokes about the news and climate change and provide a new platform for voices. This show we kind of put together on stage for the very first time at the FBI social, which was a small room, not unlike this in the King's Cross hotel. And we streamed it live on FBI radio back in 2012. It was really great. And you know, from there, we've done lots of great stuff we sold at the Opera House a few times we've had sellout tours around the country. Barack Obama's National Security Adviser came on the podcast and slam Tony Abbott. And that made news which is fantastic. And it's been a lot of fun. You know, the reason why we made this is so we can all show off and show how smart and funny we are.Alice Fraser  1:03:39  Can I say when you brought me onto the show the first time I'd never done satirical comedy before. And last week, I was on the BBC News Quiz. SoUnknown Speaker  1:03:47  you're right.Alice Fraser  1:03:51  For a large portion of my career Thank you dadDan Ilic  1:03:53  extensively the show's done a lot better for everybody else's careers.Yeah, Ican't believe we managed to get DJ Tom loud. Tom, Tom, DJ, don't come to our first sponsor shows now Tom is like the most in demand DJ in Australia.Hamish Blake  1:04:15  HIV jam, right.Dan Ilic  1:04:19  This is the whole point in this show works because people come together to make it happen. And it's been such a great little platform for loads of folks. Dylan Bane, who's in the audience. There he is. He's dealing is usually the the chafer of the show. He pulled together this video with some folks who have been a part of the show over the years, soUnknown Speaker  1:04:46  congratulations. 100 episodesUnknown Speaker  1:04:49  100 shows you're backing kidding.Unknown Speaker  1:04:52  Hello, Tom Ballard here, saying congratulations to irrational fearUnknown Speaker  1:04:57  on your 100th episode. Hey,Unknown Speaker  1:04:58  irrational fear. Congrats. On your 100th episode, what a huge achievement Dan andUnknown Speaker  1:05:04  the rest of the irrational fear team amazing work a huge Happy 100 to the AFR, such a great milestone and gratulations on 100Unknown Speaker  1:05:13  episodes. I'm so sorry, IUnknown Speaker  1:05:14  couldn't be there. But I was not invited. And even if I was I wouldn't come.Unknown Speaker  1:05:19  I'm not not a fan, a RFUnknown Speaker  1:05:22  rational fear. What's that?Unknown Speaker  1:05:23  What's that again?Unknown Speaker  1:05:24  Hi, thisUnknown Speaker  1:05:24  is Adam hills. AndChris Taylor  1:05:25  I'd like to sincerely congratulate damage on these wonderful podcasts.Unknown Speaker  1:05:31  The burns and stuff the British stopDan Ilic  1:05:33  knockout breeze here.Unknown Speaker  1:05:34  Sorry, IUnknown Speaker  1:05:35  can't be there tonight about currently on the set of new Thor movie.Unknown Speaker  1:05:42  I'm not informed, but I was hoping to speak to Chris Hemsworth aboutUnknown Speaker  1:05:46  playing me and a biopic of mine of my life becauseUnknown Speaker  1:05:49  I think you'll agree with the resemblance is uncanny. Good night, Danny. CongratulationsUnknown Speaker  1:05:54  on 100 episodes of convincing telling,Unknown Speaker  1:05:58  pushing, cajoling, massaging, insisting and otherwise asking nicely for every unemployed comedian and or semi employed comedian and or semi comedian to appear on your podcastUnknown Speaker  1:06:10  on a paid on 100 episodes and the only admin for one almost have been shaped his podcastUnknown Speaker  1:06:17  and live show has done what all satire does, which is fundamentally change political economic reality and fixUnknown Speaker  1:06:25  all the problems.Unknown Speaker  1:06:26  I remember eight years ago, climate change was a bit scary. And the internet was incubating in embryonic. All right, but fast forward to today. 100 episodes later, congratulations.Unknown Speaker  1:06:36  Everything is much worse. That's just dumb. Sorry. That's not how I am wanting that to come out.Unknown Speaker  1:06:42  I'm just so sad that this is going to be the last one because like, the news is pretty slow at the moment. Not really anything to discuss, but he's hoping something interesting happened soon.Unknown Speaker  1:06:55  I don't actually accept the premise of your celebration. If I did, I totally gratulations I would sayUnknown Speaker  1:07:01  what an incredible lucky country we are to have comedian lucky working but of course, it's allUnknown Speaker  1:07:07  gossip and innuendo. So can't say any of that. You know, in talkback radio,Unknown Speaker  1:07:12  we love hearing stories about Ozzy battlers people from struggle street who against the odds have had a go and managed to achieve something. And when I think about battlers, I think about Danny like an irrational fear. Despite all the challenges in front of Dan, he's managed to make irrational fear a success, and they've now clocked up 100 shows in a very real sense without this show, I wouldn't be where I am today, which is in a maximum security facility with a satellite orbiting the planet right now for I cannot be on the earth any longer.Unknown Speaker  1:07:46  One guest appearance by me made possible but for a kid partly out of tangent. With a really stupid name. Dan, you don't go down good. My dad. Good. Now if you want to have more, you got another but a warning. Since the success of at home alone together, nothing's gone up. It's gonna cost you at least 10 bucks.Unknown Speaker  1:08:08  Anyway. You know, keep up the podcast for some reason.Unknown Speaker  1:08:11  Yeah. Have aUnknown Speaker  1:08:13  very happy 100 celebration.Unknown Speaker  1:08:15  Huge. Congratulations. I'm so proud of you.Unknown Speaker  1:08:18  Well done. Congratulations, guys.Unknown Speaker  1:08:21  You're a special little man. Congratulations.Unknown Speaker  1:08:25  We love you.Unknown Speaker  1:08:38  Thanks very much.Hamish Blake  1:08:41  Like I know a lot of you know that I'm pretty hard hitting political guy. So I hope you have enjoyed the hors d'oeuvres and he's been really kick the head off a topic here. It is a real honour. It's a real honour to be on the show. Thank you Dan. Thank you Reverend honour to share the stage honour to be here on the 100th and you know i i don't even think that I just you know left my total last minute or anything like that. I was waiting like on a production line just looking at all the news of the week coming past just looking for the one with the hair in it looking for the one that I could grab. And I got the big one yesterday. I don't know if you guys have been watching the tennis but they've gotten rid of lines people did you know people say that it's done yet yeah. Thank you just said a bit louder for the audio no one else got one of those. Yeah, it's being stolen off is a COVID thing I think so not as big as Kim. Yeah. I've actually got more so we do need to get past because it's not actually a huge service COVID thing they just using the laser now they using Hawkeye Hawkeye live. It's called and they've got so when it's a fault or out it's a record voice that's yelling fault or out. But the talk is they're not bringing the lines people back. The robots are doing such a good job. That now there is a few dozen stern faced middle aged people in broad brim hats, who are very good at seeing when things are a little bit off who don't have a job? And yeah, I know what, and they're walking around the tennis and they'd have to do. I mean, I could probably just go they can probably look at people to see if they're a metre and a half apart and go 1.49. But it's not a and it is a bit like when supermarkets replaced checkout people with the robot checkouts, it's the same thing that's going on with lions people. Yeah, a couple of minutes sad. And then they didn't do the thing that they do in the supermarkets, which is they forced women, they forced the people to banks to teach you how to use the robot that was stealing its job. And I had to go Yeah, and so as you can see, it's very easy. And I'll shift so I didn't do that. That was a biggest kick in the pants. I haven't done that. However, however, that's the human cost. So there was a sad part of the story is actually the real information that came out. This is the bit that I grabbed out of all the clippings that I had on the bed and was like yes. It's it's made the news because there's a little bit of a devil in the detail here. So the maker of Hawkeye. This is the first time I've ever done research of insomnia. And he's the director of tennis. Bam. figurado. Right. He's done it with the agent, The Sydney Morning Herald. He says he's excited because with this technology that detects out and fault and you can get it to yell out using a robot voice. He said we can make it yell anything. He's like, you know, do you guys know about mp3 files? It doesn't have to be out and he doesn't he's like that's just Dennis telling us to do that. We This is these exact words because we can even make it yell Rolex or Kia. Like we can make it yell the sponsor when it lands out or it's a fault. It's a fucking cash Bonanza. All right, so I know it's one of those weird moments where you go hang on a sec, is you know, don't you know totally there's money involved in the game. Definitely the players aren't just out there because I love tennis and channel nines just showing to us every now because they thought we would be interested to see what the best tennis players are doing. Now there's a lot of cash it's been a crazy commercialism makes us sad because we're losing one of the traditional values of the game, which is people on the age yelling out and you know, curiosity yelling at them. It was like a science teacher versus like, you know, Daniel Wheeler back at my school and you know, the brand or the science teacher, so we don't have any more. Money has crept in manuscripts in and I know that makes people sad in sport. But here's we're gonna put all my cards on the table. I spent 15 years in commercial radio and television. I am trained to see opportunities. This is what we do. This is our bread and butter. I'm a fucking ninja at this. Have you heard the triple m football call? The bowl is sponsored. The stats sheet is sponsored. They don't even call them stats they call them hard Yeah, cuzjakka does the stats so they go how many hot jackets have they made? That's the stat I can't believe we're still sayinghere's the thing. Here's the thing there is I think there is a visit there's an issue though out and fault and negative terms like if your Rolex Okay, you don't want if something bad happens, you don't wanna be associated with that. So first step that I will give the geniuses is if Kia is in charge of it, you make the you make the fault call you make it a competitor lands out. It's the Hyundai Elantra is full of faults. If it's an alcohol on your Rolex you have tag while you're out rageous Lee bad value I don't want to tag on a Rolex let down by watch the Rolex but I think that's small potatoes as we say in the commercial biz. Out fault. Who cares? let you know someone else can have those if care and they are the main sponsor. If you really want to own this. have come up with an idea. Now Louis, I know you're going to get a free laptop. Previously. It hasn't happened. Well, I have asked many times. Yeah, but you've been sloppy because you didn't use brand names. You've got that ABC Wi Fi Well,Unknown Speaker  1:14:43  yeah,Unknown Speaker  1:14:43  I will.Dan Ilic  1:14:44  I will get fired if I mention a brand name.Hamish Blake  1:14:47  I thought that might be the case. My friend. I please mentioned here so much against you a car.Unknown Speaker  1:14:55  He could I just jump in Could it be Land RoverHamish Blake  1:15:00  Why don't we start with the keyer? And we're gonna work our way up from there. I mean, we'd love to start listening from now. Okay. All right, he's, here's the thing, if there's one area that we can change that is boring, a little bit confusing in tennis, it's a scoring. No one knows what goes 15 1510 then how many is a guy, no one knows. No one knows. He won't miss it. No one. From now on, Louis, this is our freight, we want to hear this here. This man loses pitch to you about what you can do with the scoring. Okay? So instead of having the numbers and the games and stuff, it's all related to chaos. So love the score of zero. That's just walking that we call that walking now. You don't have a car. So you're it's the absence of cases. And you don't want to you want to you want to get past that. That was that would be a nightmare. And so the idea is you're building your care as the game goes on. So I know the old system was confusing, and this is a little confusing, but 15 Now we call wheels. Okay, he's on wheels. 30s engine 40 chassis, okay. Which is I don't know. I think it's Jesse.Dan Ilic  1:16:25  Tennessee, Tennessee is French. So it's Jesse.Hamish Blake  1:16:28  Jesse. That's so funny. So you're building the car. Oh, you only got the exterior of the body to go. Except so if you win the next point, you have a full Kia. However, for the 40 all because chassis chassis. In the old system that was juice in the new system, that's exterior options. Okay. So you get to players locked in exterior options. If you win the next point, you get metallic paint. Right? Then if you win that you've built your care Okay, so you've won one case for that equals a game as the set progresses. This is where it gets a little trickier. You name it sounds like game one game two. He's won three games he's won four games you don't say that anymore because there's no money in that. You now refer to each number of games corresponds to the ascending order of the key a range Okay, so if you just get good I know. If you've just won one game that's the Zippy and reliable key to that's the very capable Kia Rio then you go to the key of Serato The key is sell toss the key is potage. The sixth game is the luxurious Kia Sorento. And then if the set does go to the seventh game, that of course is the seventh carnival. And then you have won the set which is a collection of cars. So now you've now got a collection of cars. If you win the game, that's a fleet for the fleet. You don't win the game. Do you want to play the keys through the championship? Of course we just change that terminology. You've won the dealership like that's now what you win. And your opponent has to drive away no multiply.Dan Ilic  1:18:02  Okay? It wasn't confusing. I think we all understood that.Alice Fraser  1:18:17  You did not think I could find tennis more boring. And then you made it about cars and math.Hamish Blake  1:18:25  Imagine you know that. One of the other big guys locked into Sorento. I meanDan Ilic  1:18:32  imagine a country he wouldn't even fit in the SorentoHamish Blake  1:18:36  that's just eat for those at home I'm doing the money symbol withAlice Fraser  1:18:42  all this from Novak Djokovic throat punching lines person withinHamish Blake  1:18:46  an hour or driving around. Now you're gonna love it. CanUnknown Speaker  1:18:51  I just say I as I as a long term AVC employee that was so yeah. I felt I felt like I was learning a different language. therapy. Yeah, no, I thought I'd hide it but I loved it.Hamish Blake  1:19:07  You'll learn to love it. Just say a few times and it just rolls off the tongue. I'll get you on to some.Dan Ilic  1:19:26  Speaking of love, Gabby bolt has got one last song for us before we wrap up the night. Gabby.Gabbi Bolt  1:19:32  Thank you. It's funny. Actually, I'm from Baptist. Note that got the word deserved. Which is it just means basically, I without a pandemic. I also just haven't seen people. Just my life but I have a tick tock account,Yumi Stynes  1:19:47  which isUnknown Speaker  1:19:48  Yeah, look. ButGabbi Bolt  1:19:54  I have more followers than my hometown. So thanks. But basically, I I've been in the public eye and I'm not at all used to that. And so when I post online, sometimes people like to talk to me. And so I've written a song to thank those people. It's called Love Song for an in sell. And in parentheses, I think I'd get on with your mum. Yep, it's only downhill from here. Recently, the internet has become my new abode. And every time I put up a political post, I see something that catches my eye. A retweet from the sweetest can I've got three little words that he goes and stays referring me to all of his money to someone to look up to. But john,would you bang. ignoring the fact that's not relevant, and ignoring the fact I'm greatly I've reached in bed and ignoring the disgusting sentiment, instead of a simple abuse of my autonomy. He could have tried to set the fucking scene for me. Tell me how we'd meet Tell me how you would treat me. But since you aren't, give me the courtesy. I'll do what must be done. I reckon we would meet on the street. You can call me from your bus stop seeing you would be surprised when I in fact, say hey, I'm super flattered that you want to see my rack denied asked you to take me on a date. I'll leave it I'll do it and I'll say, Hey, could you pick me up round eight. And you'll say you can't drive. That's why you're at a bus station. So I broke up to your house, which is an overstatement because your house is your mom's and you live in her basement, or wait with your mom for a while in the hallway. She seems real sweet. It's a shame her son is an ashtray. regard a potent or it complements well with your sweat at the door. And as we leave for an evening I've been looking for. I remember you've picked the menu and the menu and the seating. I stole that line from Hamilton. Please don't sue me. When we take to our chairs amongst the popcorn he and I asked what kind of film I'm in for. not surprised at all to hear it's by Tarantino. As we watch the list of all the films you've seen, though, you do go on to say that representation is not important. And diversity has ruined all the things you enjoy. And I feel unsafe. But for narrative sake, we have to get to that base. And we dim the lights down though. Well, actually, they're off. Oh, basements, not on the same circuit board. Even in the dark, your chest hair really just shines through. And I'm giving you allUnknown Speaker  1:23:42  and you're crying.Unknown Speaker  1:23:51  Really.Gabbi Bolt  1:23:53  It's been a bit of a dig. I shouldn't be a dick, even in a hypothetical. So I hold you. You say your sexual performance is one of your biggest fears. You treat women like they're objects to distract from the fact you're probably bad at sex. And while I'm empathetic, I am not an idiot. I grind my stuff and run the fuck out of the basement. But I stopped to talk to your mom. Because honestly, she seems fun. But she doesn't seem to know. There's a sickness that exists within cyberspace most diagnoseable in patients who hide their face, hey, look around. It could be one of your mates who told me I shouldn't have opinions and to know my place where it's going good. My first mistake Thank you very much.Unknown Speaker  1:24:50  That makes me feel way better. So as a woman ifGabbi Bolt  1:24:54  you wish to share a point of view, be aware of the shitstorm that awaits you in the Reddit. forums in the Twitter hashtags in the YouTube comments, tick tock do it. The Facebook feed in the email junk box in the Insta DMS and in the post once I was doxed andUnknown Speaker  1:25:13  taking account happy toGabbi Bolt  1:25:26  but none of that matters. He already rated me as six.Unknown Speaker  1:25:55  Fantastic.Dan Ilic  1:25:58  And now to talk that I did I spent 15 minutes trying to work out where do I put the soUnknown Speaker  1:26:12  sorry.Dan Ilic  1:26:14  There's so good Gabby, Gabby.Unknown Speaker  1:26:20  Actually I forgot the words on purpose.Gabbi Bolt  1:26:23  Because the words on purpose,Alice Fraser  1:26:24  never apologise to being better than Louis.Chris Taylor  1:26:29  You'll be apologising old.Dan Ilic  1:26:34  Everybody, Louis is actually talking to someone else last night about the show and they're like, Oh, hey, Mitch, Mike's gonna be on it. I'm like, yeah, I'm following you. And they're likeUnknown Speaker  1:26:46  you now. I'm soHamish Blake  1:26:53  glad I got him before. Just on behalf of the Father. Wow, it feels great.Dan Ilic  1:27:08  I wish the show was tomorrow like I thought. Now as a Victorian who lives in Sydney, I've always kind of felt like Switzerland in the Sydney Melbourne debate. I think they're both great. You know, Melbourne has the third and the 40. Sydney has the beaches and the beauty, but it was always one trump card that Melbourne had to play. When it came to its victory over Sydney hidden in a little laneway was a secret spot called crown casino.Now as long as Sydney didn't have a crown casino, it would always be Melvin's poor cousin. Everyone knew it. It's all anyone talked about up here.Unknown Speaker  1:27:47  Why don't we get a crowd? Where can IDan Ilic  1:27:52  go if I want to gamble and eat at restaurants that already exists pretty close by? Well, you could go to star casino I'd say the crown the city can never be king. And then, like a white knight riding in on his glimmering super yacht, James James Packer, he built a new crown right here. It would Herald a new dawn of subtle sophistication. Right here in the Emerald City. I'm talking a hidden tucked awayUnknown Speaker  1:28:33  22 hectares of land and almost impossible to spot 75 for casino and all owned and run by a family business. The Packers for a moment, Sydney was the happiest place on earth. And before I even got a chance to take my call Melbourne friends to barang or over a hit night of gambling.Unknown Speaker  1:28:59  I find outDan Ilic  1:29:00  the crown can open in Sydney. Apparently some intern who calls himself a former Supreme Court Justice suddenly decided after an 18 month investigation, the crown is unsuitable to run a casinobecause crown Casino in Melbourne has a long history of money laundering. Melbourne isn't that typical? Not only does it have the better restaurants it'sUnknown Speaker  1:29:27  better at money laundering.Unknown Speaker  1:29:27  If I have to if I want a money launderer, I have to drive 10 hours down the UDan Ilic  1:29:34  turn my drug money into chips. It's outrageous. You know, Ban someone for money laundering. Remember last year when Westpac accidentally forgot to mention 19 point 5 million transactions of money laundering but gaveUnknown Speaker  1:29:47  them a little fine.Unknown Speaker  1:29:48  No one went to prison. It was an accident. It was 19 point 5 million accidents. We crown only made one mistake one little money laundering mistake. Oops.Unknown Speaker  1:30:04  has noDan Ilic  1:30:05  one's organised the junket for a triad gang to dump profits of crime for over a decade.Look me in the eye and tell me I haven't done it.Honestly,telling crown they can't operate money laundering casinos. It's like telling Asha Gunzburg he can host TV. It's what they were born to do. Without crown jobs will be lost. Can you imagine the layoffs in the triad gangs?Unknown Speaker  1:30:36  I want to be theUnknown Speaker  1:30:37  guy at suddenlink who has to tellUnknown Speaker  1:30:38  a hitman he can apply for a job caper. Not only will people not be able to launder money, help people gamble.Unknown Speaker  1:30:46  Are you telling me people can just gamble on their phones?Unknown Speaker  1:30:51  anytime on literallyDan Ilic  1:30:52  anything. fashioned book by holidays that a travel agent. I bind my porn at a sex shop. And I like to gamble in a giant penis shaped building.Unknown Speaker  1:31:07  I don't want to gamble on a machine that fits in my pocket. I want to gamble in a big machine filled with coins like a robot leprechaun. I'm worried about what will happen to the beautiful barangaroo if crown can open its casino. Usually when you're not allowed in a Sydney building. It's for a normal reason like it has cracks and it's about to fall down.Dan Ilic  1:31:33  Right now in Sydney there is a 75 storey money laundering cop just sitting there. I mean, what are we gonna do with an empty building for the fucking crowd on top of it? limits the options or you rent it to crown lager is a bigger crime than money laundering.What are we gonna do literally rented out to likeUnknown Speaker  1:32:03  a royal family. The closestDan Ilic  1:32:05  Australia has to royal families the Hemsworth hay barn house is nicer than barangaroo. If this nanny state won't let James Packer open his money laundering factory, I do actually have a few ideas of what we could do with the empty space. Now your average Twitter teardrop will tell you that it should be used for public housing or COVID quarantine hotels.Unknown Speaker  1:32:26  How about this? It's got a lot of CCTV cameras. Big Brother house.Unknown Speaker  1:32:35  If you think Crown's reputation is too bad for a TV network to film Big Brother. Keep in mind they used to film in a dream world.Unknown Speaker  1:32:48  Just saying the standards low. Okay, it's not right to be brother. I hear your groans maybe another show Ninja Warrior right across the casino floor. The first person to jump over the jewel of the Nile swinging around a roulette wheel roll Snake Eyes crack open the vault and swim through a billion dollars of laundered money wins $50,000 the rest of the money goes to crown.Dan Ilic  1:33:09  I don't like that idea. IUnknown Speaker  1:33:10  got more. We all know that James Packer and Mariah Carey are well and truly over. Maybe it's not too late to rewrite the divorce. So Mariah gets barangaroo imagineLewis Hobba  1:33:22  Mariah Carey living alone ina giant tower for the next 30 years. While the giant facade slowly decays one day and intrepid explorer wandering through the heat wasteland that was once Sydney machetes through the IV branches that have overtaken crowns revolving doors to find Mariah in rags. sauntering the empty hall singing All I want for Christmas is you while she minds eating a sumptuous feast off the empty plates in a deserted note.Unknown Speaker  1:33:58  Yes, itUnknown Speaker  1:33:59  is an excellent idea.Unknown Speaker  1:34:02  But it's not as good as money laundering.Lewis Hobba  1:34:06  Just like crowns should be allowed to launder money just like they do in Melbourne. I'm sick of Sydney being numberUnknown Speaker  1:34:12  two.Lewis Hobba  1:34:12  Do you know that New South Wales isn't even the state with the most amount of poker machines in the world? Guess what number we are? The two you know who number one is Nevada?Unknown Speaker  1:34:24  First the store winsUnknown Speaker  1:34:25  the rugby league and now thisDan Ilic  1:34:27  crown casino simply must be allowed to operate in Sydney. I mean they even let Western Australia have a crown casino that's a state where you hit a jackpot anytime you dig a hole. Sydney doesn't pick up its game Soon. Soon. We'll have nothing I mean, we'llUnknown Speaker  1:34:44  have one casino but what do we HobartUnknown Speaker  1:34:50  we've already lost the curse ship business.Unknown Speaker  1:34:52  Don't take away our culture.Unknown Speaker  1:34:57  We need a friendly place with a carpet. That reminds you of funky fruit funeral parlourUnknown Speaker  1:35:02  with lighting thatUnknown Speaker  1:35:02  says What time is it? Who cares? And a car park full of family waggons with the windows down just enough for the kidsUnknown Speaker  1:35:09  to breathe. I hope personally I don't see the day when there's a real estate agent out the front of barangaroo auctioning it off, and if I do 2.2 billion is actually not a bad price for an apartment, Sydney. So thank you so much.Unknown Speaker  1:35:37  patreon supportersDan Ilic  1:35:45  discord channel, FBI radio, john Spicer, Blake LewisUnknown Speaker  1:36:02  and until next week,  A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/100th EPISODE LIVE SHOW ANNOUNCEMENT!🎟️ COME SEE A RATIONAL FEAR LIVE. Feb 10th, Giant Dwarf, Sydney:https://giantdwarf.com.au/events/a-rational-fear-100/On this week's podcast we play kick the kick with Eddie McGuire's handling of the Do Better report, learn about a young man who has been in a coma since the start of the pandemic, and talk about the shopping habits of the Melbourne's latest COVID case, then we cross to Yangon and chat to Myo Kyaw Thur to hear how young people are dealing with living in Myanmar as their country is taken over by the military .Fearmongers:Sami ShahShalailah MedhoraLewis HobbaDan IlicMyo Kyaw Thu (Yangon)+ music from Gabbi BoltOUR 100th EPISODE LIVE SHOW IS ALMOST SOLD OUT!We've finalised our line up for the 100th Episode LIVE show. It's HUGE! Get your tickets here: https://giantdwarf.com.au/events/a-rational-fear-100/DJ Tom Loud, Yumi Stynes, Hamish Blake, Alice Fraser, Chris Taylor, Gabbi Bolt, Lewis Hobba, Dan Ilic + Other friends of the podcast.February 10th at Giant Dwarf, Surry Hills, Eora Nation.As a Patreon supporter of ARF you get a 20% Discount! And for those not really interested in being part of live audience yet, or if you're outside of the Sydney Metro area, you can buy a streaming ticket too!---------------------------------------Unknown Speaker  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by the Bertha Foundation.Dan Ilic  0:04  Hey Lewis, You look good.Thank you Dan. Yeah, I know tullos listening at home on the podcast I got a new laptop putting out pretty subtle signs for the last year to ask one of our listeners to donate to me but it turns out listen as a contains zero sugar daddy, so I have bought Whoa.Well, we you should know, Louis that we do have a few sugar daddies but they are giving us money in $3 amounts. big thank you to fauzia Khan chipping in with $3 David McCullough is chipping in a bit more 10 bucks a month. big thank you to those folks on the Patreon if you want to join us on Patreon you can simply go to patreon.com forward slash irrational fear Hi everyone. Oh,Mel Silva  0:47  I'm also on a GoogleDan Ilic  0:49  was trying to mill soUnknown Speaker  0:51  Australians. Oh, shut up.Dan Ilic  0:53  We just don't need her. She's up everywhere. Have you seen Mel silver she's you know male silver. I'mBen van Beurden  0:58  not familiar with male silver. I've just I've gotten I've gotten rid of Google in anticipation of our upcoming.Dan Ilic  1:06  Well, I just feel like she's everywhere. She's omnipresent. I want to say to people living in so called Sydney metropolitan area. We are 80% sold of our 100th live show which is great news. You've only got six more days to get tickets go to giant dwarf.com.au The link will be in the show notes Lewis who is on the show.Lewis Hobba  1:26  You and I are there Dan? They're wonderful. Gabby bolt who has been blowing up Tick Tock. We've got Of course. Yumi stynes the great Yes. We have Alice Fraser the delight Yeah. larious the wonderful Alice Fraser. We have Chris Taylor. Unbelievable. Yes. Actor winning writer of the show he did which night? Stand up Stand up and of course is Harish flakes who coming?Unknown Speaker  1:57  Yeah, yes, IUnknown Speaker  1:58  think it wasBen van Beurden  1:59  Yeah. How annoying would it be if I just did if I just said Thank God you hear over and over to him.Dan Ilic  2:09  I think that'll be part of the show. So please head to join dwarf Comdata you to buy tickets, letting you know that I'm recording my end of irrational feet on gadigal land in the urination. sovereignty was never seated. We need a treaty. Let's start the show.Unknown Speaker  2:23  A rational fear contains no to words like bricks cambro COMM And section 40 a rational view recommended listening by immature audience.Dan Ilic  2:36  Tonight fake news has been named the word of the decade by mccory dictionary the Oxford Dictionary has reached out to clarify that it's actually two words and having missed out on any of the 170 $7 million bushfire recovery Fund. The Heritage listed Blue Mountains realised they made the mistake of not being a Rugby League club from Queensland with a women's team that doesn't exist. And Tanya plibersek confrontation with Craig Kelly over vaccine conspiracies had the liberal backbencher needing to apply hydroxychloroquine for those harsh burns. It's the fifth of February and it's a historic and proud day for irrational fear podcasts. This is irrational fear.Welcome to irrational v. I'm your host, Dan Ilic, former CEO of amazon.com. Let's meet our fear mongers for tonight, a man who decided that it was simply too risky to come to so called Sydney to do our 100th anniversary live show. So he could say in Melbourne instead it's the Sultan of satire is Sammy Sha Sami. Are you a COVID coward?Sami Shah  3:51  I am indeed a COVID coward only because I have a daughter and I and I parent week on week off, like so many divorced parents do in this day and age. And so if I get stuck there for one extra day, or two or three, it's good to have everyone's schedules and I just don't risk it. And I'll be honest, I just don't trust sydneysiders you've got your eyes every time every day that goes by without Sydney somehow causing the end of the worldBen van Beurden  4:21  but also you I don't know why that would be a surprise.Dan Ilic  4:23  And this week marks her 10th year in Parliament House Press gallery yet she is yet to see parole its friend of the podcast Sharla madora Shalala 10 years that is a long time to be giving your your self to the Australian Parliament House Press gallery andShalialah Medhora  4:38  I must have done something really bad, you know to get. I mean, Sammy, if you feel that suicide is a shifty God knows what you must think of people who work in house is very very shifty bunch.Dan Ilic  4:53  And it's the man who refuses to line up for anything. It's Louis haba.Ben van Beurden  4:58  I mean, that's accurate, but also you I don't know why that would be a surprise. Like I don't know yet why finding apps for idiotsDan Ilic  5:05  coming up a little later on, we're going to be crossing live to me and to hear how young people are coping with the military decision to give up on that whole democratic process thing, after just being five years in opposition will ask what can the Alp learn from the Burmese military junta. But first a message from our sponsor?Unknown Speaker  5:22  Hi, everyone. Oh, noUnknown Speaker  5:23  Silver Eagle here in Australia.Dan Ilic  5:26  There's no there's no window. Sorry. That's our rock sponsor, she always just turns up out of nowhere. But first, a message from our sponsor.Bill Gates  5:33  Hello, I'm Bill Gates, former Microsoft founder and CEO now full time Boomer with too many resources at hand. And when I'm not planning to vaccinate the world with the latest antivirus, I'm using bing bing almost works as great as Google. That's why over 6% of the world trust Bing to find what they're looking for. Say you want to find the best coffee shop near you. All you have to do is go to www.bing.com and type in Spanish Civil War, and the best coffee shops will appear on your screen. And say you want to read all the latest news on your phone. Just download the app and hit the latest news tab. And you can binge all the latest news on the Costa Concordia shipper with the departure of Google from Australia my old friends at Microsoft are ready to make being relevant to Australia as Australia is relevant to the world. Oh under this has nothing to do with the rumours of me trying to inject you with 5g nanobots just try to search for it on Bing it doesn't exist. baring brainDan Ilic  6:51  finally some real money coming into the podcast.Lewis Hobba  6:56  I really enjoyed that.Unknown Speaker  6:58  Thank you.Dan Ilic  6:59  Firstly tonight Collingwood Football Club is according to long standing president Eddie McGuire not racist but has problems with systemic racism. What's the difference? Well, not even any could phone a friend to find out. A report on the failures of the football club to deal with systemic racism was delivered to the club in December. And in classic Hollywood defensive form, they promptly buried it. It was then leaked to a journalist who's gonna publish it this week. So once you get on the backfoot callingwood President Eddie McGuire got out ahead of the story and held a 15 minute press conference to announce that it was a proud and an historic day for the club. HistoricUnknown Speaker  7:33  yesDan Ilic  7:33  proud. It's the kind of proud of three year old has after they've made a mural with their own faeces in the living room wall. I think the do better report says a few things like there's a gap between what the club stands for and what it does. what it stands for, of course, is winning football games. What it does is winning football games while being racist. The report acknowledges that Collingwood does do some great stuff in the community like programmes around homelessness, it's just that it does that at the same time as being racist. The report also says that whenever racism is reported, racists in charge are too busy thinking racist thoughts to hear the reports they forget what was reported so no one thinks they're racist fear mongers Is this a proud and historic day for Collingwood? Sami.Sami Shah  8:19  One of the things you have to understand is that Eddie didn't never get a chance to tell us exactly what he was proud off. You know, he said he was proud. We don't realise he is proud. And he's rightfully proud of the racism in the club of how good they are, how efficiently they've done it over the years. Have you had a game plan and you stuck to that game plan no matter what came their way? You know, that requires effort concentration. Here's the crazy thing. The thing that upsets me the most about this whole story is that I now have to talk about footy. And I do not care about Pakistan and I don't give a shit about cricket. Why would I ever give a footy The only way I could ever have a sinkhole opened up under the MCG, all the teams, all the players, all the supporters and fans, and the overall IQ of this country went up significantly. Until that happens, I would like to avoid took my footie But somehow, because it addresses racism involves racism. I now have to talk about this repulsive sport run by an absolutely repulsive group of human beings.Shalialah Medhora  9:25  Well, if the racist was gonna come after you because of the colour of your skin, it's definitely the AFL comments that are gonna send themSami Shah  9:32  the way I figured they're coming off, someone's coming off at some point anyway, so far and wide and just get as many people as possibleDan Ilic  9:41  as a born and bred jilong man on na n and a lifetime jilong fan. I always been a huge fan of 40 and the racism in 40 years is huge. It's out of control. And Eddie McGuire. Like we've all seen the when he said Hold. We mentioned a radio that, you know Adam Goodes should go and say King Kong, there's like, he has been terrible this whole time. And it is often, with all issues like to do with race, you'd often say, it isn't a black and white issue. But with Collingwood, it literally is it's the colours of their jerseys. So there's really nothing that he can say to get around that, but it is you could sort of see what a normal person without that history might be trying to say in that moment, like, not proud but like, acknowledging these issues is is important, but I mean, what a butchering, for a person who talks professionally, constantly. What an absolute nightmare.Sami Shah  10:38  Can I just give you a short list of some of the things that Eddie McGuire has said, you know, badly in the past. So for example, there's the time he like you said called Adam said Adam Brooks should promote kingkong when he joked about drowning AFL journalists Caroline Wilson, when he made homophobic remarks about a male figure skaters when he called john l Mozi. asked when he should be boning Nine Network presented Jessica roll and called Western Sydney, the land of the falafel these are all humongous acts of racism, homophobia, misogyny, from one man whose career has done nothing but benefit from this. So why would you stop at this point?Shalialah Medhora  11:19  gaslighter in chief, really, isn't he luck? By saying no, no, there's no racism. It's like, Who are you trying to fool with all of these comments like honestly, your that's what you say on the record? Can you imagine what goes on behind the scenes in that particular club? Like it's massively gaslighting on the national level?Dan Ilic  11:38  Well, I think it's absolutely clear that Eddie is clearing the decks and he's absolutely ready for a career in national politics.Sami Shah  11:45  I don't think he could afford the pay cut, to be very honest. I mean, the man with a Rolex Daytona on his wrist, that's 100 and something $1,000 watch, he has a TV show, he has a radio show, he has all of these things, going into politics would be a massive step down for him at this point.Dan Ilic  12:04  To get that kind of watch, you have to work in Australia Post and that's, that's a sideways step. That is a sideways step. It's interesting that had 18 recommendations in the report. And if you've managed to read it, I've summarised them all down to five, it is one learn about racism. Two, don't be racist. Three, if there's racism going on, stop it, and get rid of it for tell everyone not to be a racist five, and get people of colour and First Nations people into leadership positions. So that next time you might not actually be a racist by accident,Sami Shah  12:37  will never be accomplished. We can actually cross that one out right now.Dan Ilic  12:40  You don't think that'll be done? I think this is happening in organisations all over the country right now.Shalialah Medhora  12:45  I actually think that's the first thing that they'll do. But they'll put in a figurehead person, like they did at this particular press conference had a woman of colour First Nations woman there to mop up the mess of all the racists basically, to be the figurehead to be like, Look, we're not so bad, we've got a person, we've got a First Nations person here sitting next to us, we can't be that bad. That's the first thing they do. And then that poor person gets stuck with the burden of not only having to deal with racist incidents in their organisation, but then also cleaning up the mess of those racist incidents.Dan Ilic  13:16  I mean, they could always just hire Sam Newman in blackface.Sami Shah  13:28  Interesting to see the list of all the different things they're about as effective and as as innovative in their approach to dealing with racism as when you were in third grade. And your teacher said, if someone bullies you say, Stop it, I don't like it. Yeah, IDan Ilic  13:43  mean, that this is exactly the bullying policy, high school, this actually it's actually the same point. It's so baffling. And so it's so crazy that we have to give this to proper adults to read.Lewis Hobba  13:55  So someone who is one of the craziest things in terms of like the media cycle of it, is that after about 24 hours, Eddie McGuire was no longer the main focus of this problem. It was Wiley Dali, because of I don't know, he's obviously that that particular thing he did on the project. It was called out by the wonderful Amir Raman at the time, and everyone was like, This is trash at the time. And now it's been brought back up and everyone's like, it's still trash. And you know, hopefully like while he does say something about it, but it is pretty wild that like the front page of news calm is like Waleed Lee responsible for Collingwood's racism.Unknown Speaker  14:32  going on.Dan Ilic  14:33  Perhaps some criticism from an unconventional quarter is the voice actor john DiMaggio. You may have heard this guy he's from. He's from incredible animated series like Futurama. Here he is. This is him here standing outside his Hollywood home holding his magpies cap next to his bins.John Di Maggio  14:52  Well, hello, internet. And hello, everybody in Australia. You know when I was there, I had a lot of fun I was able to go to a couple of Ozzy footy games, and it was awesome. But then I come to learn that the team that I went to go see has been practising systemic racism for many, many years and have had racist practices and all kinds of shit like that. So I am standing on the right side and that can go into garbage. Because I don't play that shit. And don't worry, I'm not going back in there because there's dogshit in there. And I just opened up It stinks. They're picking it up tomorrow so bye bye. Sorry Collingswood Football Club. Your upper management are Philippines. Bye.Unknown Speaker  15:57  Didn't see that coming. And that wasDan Ilic  16:02  that was great.Ben van Beurden  16:04  Instead, I'm gonna go back to good old American tape. The Washington RedskinsSami Shah  16:10  did call it Collingswood, which isDan Ilic  16:13  ruin it for everyone that ruinedUnknown Speaker  16:15  irrational fear at McGuireUnknown Speaker  16:17  address the board room and for three or four minutes spoke about the way that he handled that report yesterday and says that he regrets the way it was interpreted irrational fear.Dan Ilic  16:29  Next fear the next story is probably about the luckiest unluckiest person in the news this way, everyone.Unknown Speaker  16:35  Oh,Dan Ilic  16:38  Jesus. No, I got Sorry about that. Yes, there's a teenager in the UK who is slowly coming out of 10 months long coma who has no knowledge of the pandemic despite also getting COVID twice in hospital now this kid is not going to know what the tiger King is. He's not gonna know about the capital insurrection. He's probably barely heard of glass animals heatwave? He's not the person that you're going to want to have on your next trivia team. That is for sure. Fear mongers. To what extent is a story like this worry you for the effectiveness of vaccines shy? Oh, IShalialah Medhora  17:16  just think this story is amazing. Like it sounds like one of those Hollywood sort of thrillers where someone's in a coma for a while and they wake up out of it and the whole world's change. Because Could you imagine like walking down the street? No one's in any shops or anything. No one's on the streets. Everyone's wearing masks. All of a sudden, you just like have a woken up in some sort of pandemic movie? Is that what's happening? Like, it will be terrifying hand sanitizers sold out like what? No one needs to use it in 2019 I just think it's I think it's a really amazing story. And this guy would just have so much to catch up onDan Ilic  17:52  we've all seen the movie insane. Oh, man, this guy is stoked on can't man. I can't wait for the film.Ben van Beurden  17:57  I don't think anyone should tell him. Like I think he should get moved to just some like a place where there are no people like put him in, in like Canberra. And just like, let let him let him either find out for himself or leave his life blissfully unaware. Like he's got the antibodies. He's been done twice. He's probably fine. Give him a vaccine. Let him go and let him be the one happy person left in the planet.Sami Shah  18:22  I think the movie you're referencing is the mistake of Encino Man, what you should be thinking of is 27 days later, which is in which a man wakes up from a coma to discover that all over the world has been taken over by zombies. And I feel like this is a golden opportunity. This is where we all start scaring the crap out of this guy by chasing after him making grouting sounds and pretending to eat each other. Just really give him a real sense of fear and panic for a little while. Before we can all collectively have that laugh. It'll bring us together.Lewis Hobba  18:55  It reminds me right at the start of the pandemic. One of my favourite stories with one of the best people of all time, was when Jared Leto came back from a two month yoga retreat. And it had been a silent it'd be a silent yoga retreat. So none of the people running their retreat had been able to tell anyone what was happening. So Jared Leto just like wandered back in from his like little town and he was like Hey guys, we shoot any new DC film What's up? He's like I'veUnknown Speaker  19:25  never doneLewis Hobba  19:29  I was like, as always, I'd love to be Jared Leno.Dan Ilic  19:32  It could also go the other way. I really like the the film goodbye linen. Do you guys remember that? That film is about about some grand grandkids of a grandmother who tried to grandmother wakes up from a coma but she loves Star Wars so much that that the kids had to pretend the Berlin Wall was still up and then the USSR was still kind of in full motion so they had to do this huge sham. It could go the other way. as well, but yeah,Shalialah Medhora  20:01  yeah, you would have to bring back the 2019 vibes by like taking that look of despair off our face, which will be really difficult to do because I think people have aged probably 10 years in the last 12 months. So I think that's gonna be particularly difficult to like, bring back that like optimistic glow to everyone that we used to have in 2019 Oh no, we'reDan Ilic  20:20  gonna have to pretend Donald Trump is still president. That's terrible.Sami Shah  20:25  We don't know what his political leanings are. He may be an ultra mega person, huge Trump supporter. And him coming out of the coma is one of the worst thing the worst thing that's happened, you know, hoping she'll be back in.Shalialah Medhora  20:39  The good thing about him is he's in the UK, right? And they're still part of like, Brexit still hasn't properly happened. So he's like, nothing has changed there. You don't have to pretend in any way that anything is different. In that sense,Dan Ilic  20:53  kid, I've got some bad news. The good news is you're awake. The bad news is you can't go to your house in Spain anymore. Ben van Beurden  20:59  You know. I think if you talk about cash flow, I think we came in more or less as per expectation $6.6 billion for the quarter i think is a resilient number. But indeed, the year was a very tough year. Let's be honest, a very painful year.Unknown Speaker  21:15  This is a rationalDan Ilic  21:16  fear. Here's the third fear of the week striking the balance of you know how to pay hotel quarantine workers is become a bit of a big problem. Don't pay them enough. They've got to take second jobs in the gig economy like in Western Australia, or pay them too much and they indulgent ethics, social lives that can endanger others. And you case of COVID and Victoria has has has come about now this guy was a hotel quarantine worker. And while his infectious he had a bit of a journey on Saturday, he went not to one but to sporting clubs on Sunday had a big shopping day. He went not to one but to Kmart and the calls for good measure, presumably because he thought his temperature would go down down. On Monday. He also went to Bunnings hardware and a Golf Academy. on a Monday he went to a Golf Academy on a Monday if I was into profiling, I'd say that this hotel quarantine worker had the habits of a retired AFL footballer. How do we strike the balance here guys? How do we strike the balance between you know pay how folks too much they have a good time or under pay them that they they endanger the lives of others? Either way? It's dangerous.Shalialah Medhora  22:23  I'm just really surprised he didn't go to a Thai restaurant because that's like the one thing that's tied to everyone else who's like everbridge quarantine. It's like Nah, man Thai restaurant,Unknown Speaker  22:33  why not?Sami Shah  22:34  I do have a lot of sympathy for the two k mods thing because I've been in that situation where like you want one specific thing from K mod you go all the way to came on to get it and then fine and they're out but then they call up someone that like actually is available in the other Kmart across the city and you're like but now I must have it because I'm on a quest and you do the drive so I'm nothing but simply in support for him. It's funny I keep the gold thing helped me a lot because normally when these cases happened with the child quarantine workers and staff and such of the security guards particularly I assume that they must be brown because it's I know it's a lot of guys like me from India from Pakistan working in these spaces. But the moment you mentioned the golf centre, I was ignited definitely a wind you like that. But overall, he did a great job. He tracked everywhere he went, he made sure everyone knew where he was going. And he made sure that he notified everyone got tested accordingly. So you know, if we have more gel quarantine workers like him, that was great. Lisa Neville MP said and Victoria question time today,Dan Ilic  23:39  the hotel quarantine worker had, quote, an amazing phone with a map that tells him everywhere he's been it's better than the Commonwealth's COVID safe app, I assume. I assume that was just Google Maps ride.Shalialah Medhora  23:53  Safe app is not a hard benchmark to me.Ben van Beurden  23:56  It is like it does feel like a hotel quarantine workers need to be told about online shopping. You don't need to go to Kmart. You don't need to go to any Kmart Kmart comes to you. It's a Melbourne thing you'reSami Shah  24:09  in Sydney you don't get it we spent months of just doing online shopping. If I have to click to purchase one more thing I lose my mind to India to buy the right spices now just to make sure I get out of the house.Dan Ilic  24:26  Well with an anthem for melburnians in their current rampant case of COVID Gaby Bolton Beck show have these for us.Mel Silva  24:32  Hi everyone.I'm Mel silver, and I likeDan Ilic  24:35  sorry, every day. I have this sorry Beck show and Gabby both have this for us.Gabbi Bolt  24:49  came out in mind. I was told to get a test and isolate. But instead I thought I would go And see what I can buy of useless subjects cheaply made I started feeling my temperature it rose at four k Mart's in one for Kmart I would stop at three but you would not believe it. They'd all run out of tissues The only thing that I was needing so I went to Kmart for I mean it's not like I have got COVID Craig Kelly's Facebook told me it's and see the shit I got onUnknown Speaker  26:02  boardUnknown Speaker  26:06  don't scan person left my mom on my trip to 4k MartinDan Ilic  26:39  beautiful stuff there from Gabby Bolden Beck show really good.Sami Shah  26:45  You know what's bizarre is how none of this ever revealing anything too surprising about people like everyone's trips in COVID in COVID tracking have been boring. It's never been someone who goes to a six story shop and then goes to the aquarium and then goesShalialah Medhora  27:00  except except question mark over the the borrow. I think it's borrowed. It's the one in Sydney where they found six people in one household to a spouse's three with children. And then there's this one mysterious one that no one's been able to answer. And that we all we all are like, throwing wild kind of suggestions like could be the second wife could be the mistress that lives in the hallway like no one actually knows. And they're refusing to answer what it is. So it's just like letting our imagination go crazy over what it could potentially be ProfessorDan Ilic  27:35  Plum with a petri dish.Ben van Beurden  27:38  That was a sex potty and colac at one point. I remember I remember thinking Skalak, least sexy plus, thinkUnknown Speaker  27:49  that's a matter for the Queensland Government. I mean, that's a matter for the cranium. That's a matter that I'll always with other premiers and ministers. That's really a question to the premium. That's a matter of I'm happy to take up with the other premiers and chief minister's irrational fears.Dan Ilic  28:02  The 2020s continued to be a bumper time for autocratic regimes after five years of democracy the military in Myanmar has had enough and despite designing a form of government where they still have veto control and and and guaranteed a quarter of the seats in parliament, they've decided that losing an election to the rolling National Democratic league who won over 80% of the vote was just a little too embarrassing. democratic nations all around the world express their dismay, the military coup, except, you know, one thing that China did say was they they called it a cabinet reshuffle, which I thought was interesting. Our next guest is a representative of the emerging minimizer young entrepreneur and a small business owner. We became friends with the Obama leadership Asia Pacific convening in 2019. murkier through Welcome to irrational fear.Unknown Speaker  28:51  Thank you.Dan Ilic  28:51  Mayor, tell us what is the what's the feeling like right now and where you are in Yangon.Unknown Speaker  28:57  So we all like stress and angry at the same time. We all feel better, we're not really afraid. Yeah. So it's all our dreams and future like, Oh, God, like it's crashed. So we lost?Dan Ilic  29:12  Is this something that you've kind of expected for some time? NotUnknown Speaker  29:17  really? Not overnight? So we'd wake up normally on Monday morning, and then all of a sudden like the military coupe took over the country and they found their own government.Dan Ilic  29:27  How did you find out and how did you react like what what were you doing at the time Take us through that moment.Unknown Speaker  29:32  So I got an email from my walk about the coop and and also learn by customer he told me about about the news. And people are like, oh, we're all bandings buying like they they they came to my shop. So a lot of people came and then they all like they don't really know what what do you do? Like we all like entertain? We like we Yeah, no emotion at that time. And now we all like angry. Yeah. it whatDan Ilic  29:58  what kind of am resist Can you do safely kind of given, given what's happened in COVID? Given how the regime is so autocratic? What kind of things can you do to kind of show resistance to this momentUnknown Speaker  30:10  as people walk in for their like government other like, stuff, they are sure, like civil disobedience. And also like every day at 8pm we are like, banging our pod to show the resistant against the military coup.Dan Ilic  30:24  That's great every day at 8pm I make a podcast so that's, that's, you know, we all do our own bit, I guess.Ben van Beurden  30:32  Man, it's it's wild, dude. What does it feel like now? Does it feel like there is a possibility for change for you? Or like, do you feel hopeless? What Where are you right now?Unknown Speaker  30:42  Oh, still a bit hopeless. But now, today, like the opposition party, they held their own they for their own government. So they had their their own Parliament? member we don't know what will happen. Like,Sami Shah  30:57  at this point of the has the new military government announced any, you know, any new rules and regulations in terms of censorship in terms of any of those things? Yeah,Unknown Speaker  31:07  yeah. Yeah. Starting from Monday, they tried to cut off all the internet and Facebook, and all the telephone lines were cut off. And that is it was restaurant. But today, like they announced the the issue and the notification to the light service provider to stop to do better Facebook. And also to try to block the VPN. So we are now using Facebook through the VPN, when they're trying to also like get off PBS. So they may also cut off at the Internet. SoDan Ilic  31:35  that's so interesting. Like, it must have been strange for the military to kind of get a grasp of that and kind of understand how to how to, in effect kind of stop communications pre because the internet is pretty new in me MRI, like it's like a the last five years. It's it's kind of just come in. And and the military previously didn't have to do too much to kind of shut down communications. But now, the internet is this tool that's everywhere. And it must be so strange for them to kind of shut it off.Unknown Speaker  32:04  Yeah, yeah. And also the they also like using the internet, right, like the military also using Facebook as a tool to to spread rumours and to do good for the country. So and so now people are migrating to Twitter. We are now using Facebook now. Really? That'sDan Ilic  32:22  so fascinating. So Facebook has become the malevolent tool of the military, I guess I guess Facebook's got a really chequered history, particularly with Rohingya population and stuff like that from from the last few years in Myanmar,Unknown Speaker  32:39  they use Facebook as the to, to like also to spread rumours. And also like the Rohingya conflict, what started like true also true Facebook, right? They spread false new style, like protesting and going against each other. Like,Dan Ilic  32:53  what kind of safeguards are there on Twitter versus Facebook? Do you know I don'tSami Shah  32:59  know, it's more about accessibility. I mean, so for example, in I remember in when, when the masculine Rangers had started, it was WhatsApp, not even Facebook, that was really the problem. And you know, are you seeing the kind of same stuff happening? My question, though, is, is this tatuajes? You know, loyalists? Are they the ones who are now bringing this stuff about, again, after all these years? Or is this a whole new group of Army people who have no connection with previous military hunters?Unknown Speaker  33:27  It's, it's not new, like people like they like successor right now. Yeah. So that, that maybe they maybe they may think that then the old military General, like, if he thinks he is too soft on the country, so are also like they they start to think that they have their ambitions also to solve the Civil War, like, within the country on the attempts. But you may not have been, really soShalialah Medhora  33:54  I was just gonna ask what you think the international community should be doing about this? I mean, I know Australia, occasionally weighs in to what, you know, what could potentially be issues in Myanmar, but doesn't really have too much of a skin in the game. What do you think countries like Australia should be doingUnknown Speaker  34:15  to spread more news about what they have them about the military government and do do maybe due to sanctions related businesses? Not essentially the whole country idea would not be really effective? And also to support maybe the if there's a Birla government to support the parolee government, right, do do kind of acknowledge that they're probably a government. The idea would be very, very important.Dan Ilic  34:41  Do you think the government you know, they're meeting currently outside and kind of an informal fashion? Do you think they are a safe Do you or do you think that we'll probably get arrested again,Unknown Speaker  34:51  that's not really safe, they are like nebuta wishes that capital is where the military is based. So Yeah, it may not be safe like,Ben van Beurden  35:03  and do you feel safe like a people like you, you know who I can directly connect to the government safe? Do you feel safer at the moment? No.Unknown Speaker  35:13  It's like going back to the past. Like, we don't know who is who. And yeah, we don't know like we have to take out ourselves because it's something even if something happened there's no one to do like safe asDan Ilic  35:27  you say you've lived in an autocratic regime. Yeah. Are you counting your time in Melbourne as autocratic under debt?Sami Shah  35:39  No, the what is funny was watching funny really, but like it was a weird kind of deja vu. When I saw the footage when they made the announcement of the military takeover in Burma in Myanmar. It was on the news over there, like a news anchor makes the announcement. And it was very much the same of what I saw, you know, growing up when Pervez Musharraf took over. And prior to that whenever we'd have like one military, one, one, you know, the government, the military stepped in and kicked out one to the Democratic Party and brought in another one or that it's always the state news that used to bring you that news. It's kind of bizarre to see that again. But also, what we're seeing is so true, that feeling in the first few days of no one knows what's going on. Because the people who put these plans into action discover very quickly that nothing goes according to plan. And then they scramble to make things fit either their plan or make up a new plan. So until they unveil what they actually want, who's in charge, how it will work out. You just hope for the best and it never works out for the best it's going to be military dictatorships aren't known for their kindness and their light touch and and their tolerance for dissent. So, you know, mingma has got a long road ahead of it. Unfortunately, it's a road it's been all before. Me, IDan Ilic  36:54  saw reports that as soon as the military took over, they started putting propaganda across broadcast television and radio, and things like that. When you heard that and saw that did you go Gee, this is really dated.Unknown Speaker  37:08  Yeah. It's like no, we're not Korea, right?Lewis Hobba  37:16  update your propaganda.Dan Ilic  37:17  Man. What's one thing that as waken to read, read regular Australians do to kind of support you. What's one thing that you know, people listening to this people on Twitter? What's one thing that we could do to help you?Unknown Speaker  37:31  I don't, I don't really know, what other people can do for us.Ben van Beurden  37:38  Other people that you follow at the moment on on Twitter or Facebook, or people who are getting out good information?Unknown Speaker  37:44  Oh, no, no, no, no, not really. But other people are like trying to post on like Facebook, or like, Rihanna recently tweeted about Nima. And we hold the other celebree will also follow and spread that awareness about what's happening inside the country. Yeah.Sami Shah  38:04  Yeah, at this point between Rihanna tweeting about Myanmar and then reactivating the form of protest in India. She's literally the only person on the international stage talking about things that need to be talked about. So more power to do that. As always, as always, weDan Ilic  38:18  need to get Shannon all on the case in Australia to tweet about me and her and the farmers.Unknown Speaker  38:28  It isn't fair.Lewis Hobba  38:29  I don't feel good about it. That IDan Ilic  38:31  know I back it I back off. Back a good pun. That was great. me Oh, thank you so much for joining us on rational v. I hope you stay safe. I hope you stay safe. And I hope your internet connection stays up so you can keep talking to the world about what's happening there.Unknown Speaker  38:45  Also, yeah, yeah,Dan Ilic  38:46  yeah. That is it for irrational fear. Big thanks to our guests. Lewis Ave. Semi Shah. shilada. dollar mirror through. Do you guys have anything to plug? shilada? Do you want to plug anything?Unknown Speaker  38:56  Not really. No,Shalialah Medhora  38:58  I can't I went for the IBC so probably shouldn'tDan Ilic  39:01  listen to hack on Triple J. You know, that's what you gotta do. Semi Shah, you. You got Melbourne Comedy Festival shows coming up.Sami Shah  39:09  I do indeed a comedy festival show coming up at the moment and fashion Comedy Festival starts in March on the 24th I believe. So buy tickets to that that's available. And also I have a Patreon. Much like everyone else on the planet right now. It's your only real source of income. So patreon.com slash Sangeetha.Dan Ilic  39:29  Mia, do you want to plug anything? Do you have a Patreon?Unknown Speaker  39:31  Or at least even though meet the international folks to to spread awareness and to do a stop the ability government from doing what they're doing. So we need your help.Dan Ilic  39:44  Yeah. And Louis, whatLewis Hobba  39:45  have you got to plug Daniel? Next Thursday in a week's time in Sydney. There is a wonderful show that if it were me I would be selling my firstborn for tickets for that is irrational fears. 100 episodes It's a it's got all the hits. It's got all the guests. It's got everything we mentioned at the start of the show. I'll be getting a free laptop from a member of the audience going on.Dan Ilic  40:12  All right, thank you very much and also a big thanks to Australia if you like my song All right, a big thanks to mill silver. Also Big thanks to rode bikes, the birther Foundation, our Patreon supporters, Jacob roundup and tepanyaki timeline Gaby Bolton Beck show for their for came out in one day, and all the folks in the discord channel Today it was popping today. It was energetic. It was interesting was smart. Until next week, there's always something to be scared of, which is our 11th 11th sorry, our 100th episode, live show. Get your tickets. There's only 20 or so left. Good night.Unknown Speaker  40:48  Thanks, everyone. Hi, everyone. Oh god.Unknown Speaker  40:51  I'm Elsa. A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/100th EPISODE LIVE SHOW ANNOUNCEMENT!🎟️ COME SEE A RATIONAL FEAR LIVE. Feb 10th, Giant Dwarf, Sydney:https://giantdwarf.com.au/events/a-rational-fear-100/📖 CHIP-IN TO #LEARNOUTTRUTH CAMPAIGN:https://www.chuffed.org/project/learnourtruthThe hot tip from r/wallstreet is that you should buy $ARF Shares because we have a cracker podcast this week with some of our favourite friends:Geraldine Hickey(Geraldinehickey.com), Cameron Duggan (The Mugg Off Podcast), Lewis Hobba + (me) Dan Ilic . We also interview the awesome Hayley McQuire from the NIYEC. (National Indigenous Youth Education Coalition)Hayley is running a new campaign to help #LearnOurTruth about colonisation, and First Nations culture in Australia. It's fills a remarkable in our education system, and helps eliminate the erasure of Australia's Indigenous cultures for a generation of kids who may never even learn about otherwise.Please if you can chip in to help the campaign here: https://www.chuffed.org/project/learnourtruthThey're already up over their 50% mark, but I'd love to see them blow right through it.OUR 100th EPISODE LIVE SHOW LINEUP HAS GROWN!We've finalised our line up for the 100th Episode LIVE show. It's HUGE! Get your tickets here: https://giantdwarf.com.au/events/a-rational-fear-100/DJ Tom Loud, Yumi Stynes, Hamish Blake, Alice Fraser, Chris Taylor, Gabbi Bolt, Lewis Hobba, Dan Ilic + Other friends of the podcast.February 10th at Giant Dwarf, Surry Hills, Eora Nation.As a Patreon supporter of ARF you get a 20% Discount! And for those not really interested in being part of live audience yet, or if you're outside of the Sydney Metro area, you can buy a streaming ticket too!   A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/100th EPISODE LIVE SHOW ANNOUNCEMENT!🎟️ COME SEE A RATIONAL FEAR LIVE. Feb 10th, Giant Dwarf, Sydney:https://giantdwarf.com.au/events/a-rational-fear-100/ This episode has a special interview with Brad Blanks from his Washington D.C. hotel, also us expat comedian Tommy Dean, viral star Lucinda 'Froomes' Price, Lewis Hobba and Dan Ilic.We talk Tennis player entitlement, the US presidential Inauguration, and we ask if Donald and Melania are over.BRAD BLANKS at the AVN Awards 2008 — Directed by Dan Ilic: https://vimeo.com/2174819AND — DON'T FORGET TO GET TICKETS TO OUR LIVE SHOW!We're turning 100! Which means we're updating our will, and we'll add you to it if you come to our 100th episode live show. It's going to be a 90 minute celebration of the little satirical comedy podcast that could. Featuring some new and old friends of A Rational Fear.Alice Fraser (The Bugle, The Last Post)Sami Shah (ABC Melbourne)Chris Taylor (Chaser)Gabbi Bolt (TikTok)DJ Tom Loud (Hot Dub Time Machine)Lewis Hobba (Tony Martin Look-a-like)Dan Ilic (Romper Room)+  Special (big name) guests we will book at the last minute.WHERE?: Giant DwarfWHEN?: February 10th, 7:30pm-9pmHOW?: Buy Tickets HerePATREON 💸:It costs a bit of money to make each episode of A Rational Fear — . If you enjoy our podcast, funny emails and important climate change conversations chip in here like a good sovereign citizen. We want to raise enough money we can start to make a video a month. If you believe in the work we're doing chip in — www.patreon.com/arationalfearThanks to:Big thanks to The Bertha Foundation, our Patreon Supporters and RODE Mics. Jacob Round.-----------------------------------Unknown Speaker  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by the birth of foundation.Unknown Speaker  0:04  Okay, Louis, how are you?Lewis Hobba  0:05  I'm very well Daniel, how are you?Dan Ilic  0:07  Happy New Year.Lewis Hobba  0:09  And same to you. How's how's summer? How's life you're looking? I can't believe you're looking 10 because your light is so bright that you actually look like you've got a post apocalyptic tan.Dan Ilic  0:20  Yeah, that's right. Well, I have been in a bunker for the last four years, so I don't know exactly what's happened, but I've emerged like a sakata and I'm ready to get my F on Yeah.We are back. This is Episode 98. Which means Louis Episode 100 is coming up very soon. We've got a live show with Alice Fraser Gabby bolts Sammy Sha. Lewis. You're doing it I believe. I hope Great.Lewis Hobba  0:45  Thank you again, I love to I love to hear what I'm doing on the internet.Dan Ilic  0:49  Also, DJ Tom loud is playing the show aka hot dog Time Machine. Chris Taylor is joining us and I've got a I've got a hint of a special guest. Who will I've been trading emails with Louis to see if they would also do the show. I'll give you give. I'll give you a hint. When ILewis Hobba  1:05  already know they use emails.Dan Ilic  1:10  He's recently moved to Sydney.Lewis Hobba  1:13  Matt Damon, no, no,Dan Ilic  1:15  there's no Matt Damon. It's not Sacha Baron Cohen. But he does facilitate people putting toys together on television.Lewis Hobba  1:22  Oh, interesting. Interesting.Dan Ilic  1:25  He is your professional competitor. Sometimes. I mean, let's be honest. Sometime again.Lewis Hobba  1:30  I are not competitors. He is so much more successful than me. I would be surprised if he was aware that we are competitive.Dan Ilic  1:37  There we go. So February 10. Giant wolf in Sydney. I'm recording my end of irrational fear on gadigal land in the urination sovereignty was never ceded. We need a treaty. Let's start the show.Unknown Speaker  1:49  A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks can rubUnknown Speaker  1:56  and gumUnknown Speaker  1:57  and section 40 of irrational fear recommended listening by immature audience.Dan Ilic  2:03  Tonight Scott Morrison scolds cricket Australia for acknowledging indigenous genocide by saying isn't changing one word in the anthem enough, and while Steve Bannon was pardoned by Donald Trump, only one of his seven shirts will be loud out of prison. And Kamala Harris becomes the 47th president of America on Oh, sorry, false alarm. I read that wrong. It's still riding. It's the 22nd of January a new day has dawned in America. This is irrational fear.Welcome to irrational fear. I'm your host, former owner operator of the greater wynwood exotic animal Park Dan Ilic. Joining us to hold our hands through the toughest of stories this week is an American expat who refuses to acknowledge that the Trump administration ever happened. You may have heard him on TGI F. It's Tommy Jane, can I tell me Hello to you. As an American How you feeling today?Tommy Dean  3:07  I'm feeling relieved. I'm feeling like we're moving forward to borrow an Australian phrase which we should borrow more of. Like a time for unity is here but i think i think that only because Joe Biden said unity so many times it's on my mind.Dan Ilic  3:25  And she's on a quest to meet the king of spin so far, buying out a billboard and having a hit track with collabs from flume and j flip isn't getting his attention. Who knows it's listening to French fries. Listen to what will be enough to get Shane one's attention.Froomes (Lucinda Price)  3:39  Um, well, I got it last night he started following me.Dan Ilic  3:42  This is this is breaking news here irrational fear.Froomes (Lucinda Price)  3:47  It took me five years, five years of messaging back and forth but now he will be my husband.Dan Ilic  3:54  And finally is a man with legs that just won't quit. It'sUnknown Speaker  4:02  I you know,Lewis Hobba  4:03  it's summer. Obviously if you listen to this podcast in six months, it's American Summer. It's always summer somewhere baby. But one thing I wear shorts you know? That's Call me crazy man.Dan Ilic  4:15  If you follow if you follow Louis on Instagram, you got some great solid takes ahead of you.Lewis Hobba  4:20  Thank you so yeah, get him get involved, please. I don't Shane Walters and following me. You know, I will say that every every time I wear shorts, someone asked me if I'm just gone for a run and it's because I have it's because my dumb legs so skinny. All right.Unknown Speaker  4:35  I thought it wasLewis Hobba  4:37  always joking. That's just because armie hammer and I have friends.Dan Ilic  4:45  Coming up later in the podcast, I have a chat with us basis train reporter Brad blanks from his washington dc hotel where he was Oh, so close to the Joe Biden inauguration. You could hear his pacemaker. But first a message from this week's sponsorUnknown Speaker  4:59  as spreaders of misinformation are banned from social media. There's only one man you can turn to for reliable untruths. Craig Kelly thereUnknown Speaker  5:08  has been complete abandonment.Unknown Speaker  5:11  The most trusted man in lies is backing up every ill conceived social media post and every awful conspiracy to his own website, Craig anon.com. For just $1 a week, you can get all the posts that Craig Kelly will soon be banned from posting publicly at Craig anon.com where he'll be posting anonymously under the nom de plume Craig Kelly in pay but how will you know it's Craig posts will be on hinge to be spilt and recycled from his Sky News rants.Unknown Speaker  5:42  If you look at the peer reviewed numbers of pestilence and play, the seven seas are gonna sort of boil and riseUnknown Speaker  5:49  because there's only one thing better than free speech. And that speech so free it's untethered to reality sign off to kraken.com because the cost of free speech should be $1. A week on proceeds will go towards Craig Kelly senate run in 2021. So it can be a Craig upon both your houses. Yes.Dan Ilic  6:05  All right. Let's get stuck into the first fear is the Australian Open tennis tournament or a reeducation camp? tennis players are some of the world's most privileged individuals and yet, because a few of them just brought a little bit of Coronavirus into the country with them. They've gone and got their balls in a knot feed mungus should they be complaining about being stuck in quarantine? Tommy Dane.Tommy Dean  6:27  Yes, yes, yes, they should. Why would we know they are there. But a lot of us overlook about the professional tennis player is they only exist four times a year.Dan Ilic  6:43  That's the Australian Open, Wimbledon, the US Open. AndTommy Dean  6:48  sometimes the French Open a few of them appear for that. But that's you know, played into some sort of weird surface that not everyone likes.Lewis Hobba  6:56  I love the arrogance of Australians to be like you should be lucky to be here. It's like they all live in Monaco for tax purposes. It's delightful. They're not lucky to be here. We want to be here because we have nothing else to do except watch tennis.Dan Ilic  7:11  Novak Djokovic wrote a list of demands that he brainstormed with a bunch of other players including move as many players as possible to a private house with a tennis court to facilitate training. I don't know in Melbourne all those houses are interact which was ground zero for Coronavirus. That's never gonna happen. I have an idea. What's that? Friends?Unknown Speaker  7:31  Put them in the Big Brother house.Lewis Hobba  7:35  That's interesting. Now the Gold Coast open.Tommy Dean  7:39  I'm a celebrity Get me out of here. Australian Open version? Yeah, I think it would be ideal because some of the stuff that they eat for training, it would not be something a real human would want to consume. So I think it'd be a lot of fun to watchDan Ilic  7:51  it is getting it he's getting to that point, though. You know, some of the players have taken their protest one step further than posted photos of themselves, holding up signs against their hotel windows saying stuff like I need practice, which kind of echoes similar signs that detained asylum seekers in Melbourne have been holding up against their windows for the last 14 months. kazakstan Yulia putintseva even held up a sign reminiscent of the BLM protests, which said I need to breathe fresh air. I'll tell you what, if I was an asylum seeker, I'd be holding up a sign against my window saying we'll play tennis for freedom. Famous is this kind of behaviour. Okay.Lewis Hobba  8:27  Well, Australia has a proud history of skipping the cue if you're handy at sport. Like Wait, you know, it goes a long way backDan Ilic  8:36  to whenLewis Hobba  8:37  we I mean, we've had a there was the entire dockage family. Remember the dockage family it was they were pretty handy at tennis, and dimeo dockage was there though, just like skipped him through. And then we had the Tatiana Grigoryeva she I'm sorry, IDan Ilic  8:52  did theatre 1000 silver at the Sydney Olympics and pole vaulting?Lewis Hobba  8:57  Yeah, I mean, this is a hunger game suggestion but it doesn't feel out of the pocket for Peter Dutton to just say, every refugee competes in some sort of scratch match. We find out what they're good at suddenly isDan Ilic  9:11  tell me Dan, you You came here on a sports bridging visa? What sport did you do?Tommy Dean  9:16  Oh, there's so many that was the thing at the time was i was i was a heptathlete. I could just do a little bit of everything. Now the secret with pentathlon is another choice. The decathlon just be kind of good at a lot of stuff. No need to stand out and you get to travel the world as an elite sport. I think the mistake tennis players have made is they totally focused on a single elimination sport. I can understand why a lot of that not so good. Players are deeply upset. They've had to stay here for 14 days, which is like 10 days longer than most of them have to stay here. During the actual tournament. They show up play a match pick up a check,Lewis Hobba  9:55  go home that full quote from Dan Andrews as well when he told Novak Djokovic that he wouldn't be Giving into his list of demands the sentence he said before it was people are free to send a list of demands But no, but as soon as I heard that I was like wait, what? Wait, wait is allowed to send Daniel enters that demands. Oh my god. This is like better than Christmas. I'll put it full Dear Santa a million dollars.Dan Ilic  10:18  I don't know if you saw this, but sports bit had put out a list of demands that know that Jovovich was going to put up next on it include karaoke and smoke machines for all the players rooms. Permission to play at any Melbourne karaoke bar. This one had quite long odds Bruce Mac have a need to join the channel nine's is truly an open coverage. But the longest one was $67. It was a slab of a bay and I thought that was pretty accurate. That was gonna be a bay.Tommy Dean  10:45  I think a lot of them are just asking for what they would have expected to get at tournament you know, fresh towels at every change. That's easy. Violet brakes. Yeah, a couple of kids in the corner to pick the balls up for them. That's what their mission is to doesn't miss a couple of kids chasing your balls down for you.Dan Ilic  11:06  Hey, Becca, my dad was calling room service.Lewis Hobba  11:10  I I've been trying to think about how to solve this because I love watching the tennis. I'm not a huge tennis fan. I'm an Australian tennis fan. I care for a month a year. But I do think that we do need to come up with some sort of solution for international sport. We've got the Olympics in Tokyo coming up later on this year as well we need to come up with some sort of solution for that. And I think it should just be cruise ships like we got an old they've got tennis courts. We move all the players onto the cruise ship. TV crew trainers family, only fans girlfriends, weUnknown Speaker  11:41  move them on the cruise shipLewis Hobba  11:43  and then it just sails from port to port and we can just watch from baking just pull up the Australian Open on the Ruby princess and then it's in I can pull in the US at the harbour in the US and just travel around.Froomes (Lucinda Price)  11:56  Do you could like be put into the semifinals if you're the most popular on tik tok.Unknown Speaker  12:03  Everyone is doingUnknown Speaker  12:06  amazing.Tommy Dean  12:07  There's no reason that in the world that we're moving towards we should prize honesty. There's no reason that we even have to get all together in Tokyo for the Olympics. Why not just let everyone run the event on their home track and tell us what their time wasDan Ilic  12:27  100 metres in four seconds the baby guys sorry, well record again. A lot of records this Olympia Thank you.Tommy Dean  12:37  Lots of records no drugs.Unknown Speaker  12:43  Tomic schoolfriend comply,Unknown Speaker  12:45  this is the worst part of quarantine.Unknown Speaker  12:47  I don't wash my own hair.Unknown Speaker  12:49  I've never washed bone hair. It's just not something that I doUnknown Speaker  12:53  a rational fear.Dan Ilic  12:55  This week second fear collectively the world sphincter has loosened as the peaceful passing of the USA nuclear codes went from Trump to Biden. The inauguration was a star studded affair with appearances from stars like Tom Hanks jello took to the stage to perform the 1999 hit. Let's get loud intro and outro by four minutes of this land is your land. And in a sign of unity Garth Brooks. So why first of all country singers sang the African American spiritual, Amazing Grace. It was a nice touch even if halfway through. He encouraged everyone around him at the inauguration sing along to forgetting for a moment that there was a global pandemic. You know, I was in shock not because of the request to sing, but I totally forgot that before 2016 there were celebrities other than Scott Baier. And Kid Rock I live in Alabama. Now, did you folks watch any of the inaugurations? What are your thoughts?Lewis Hobba  13:48  Yeah, I dabbled. For me it could have used a bit more three doors down. Trump had it maybe they had all the big games, three doors down. I actually googled during the inauguration, that trot who played at Trump's rally because I remembered everyone who said no, yeah, but I didn't remember who had said yes, I remembered three doors down. But there was this guy who played the Trump inauguration, who you should go and look up. His name is DJ Ravi drums. And essentially, he is like the Timmy trumpet of the drum. For the TV trumpet fans, he's a DJ who plays the trumpet. Right? And he's Australian guy. Hugely, very rich, but quite odd. And I mean, musically. And DJ Ravi drums is that he DJs and plays the drum kit. And, and people like, first of all, how did you Where were you on the list? Who are they asking that? DJ Ravi drums is playing. We're at a point where like, like Joe, God actually actually got Bruce Springsteen. Trump got rejected by a Bruce Springsteen cover band. That is a true story. Like that's where we went and he's like, the first generation immigrant and everyone's like, what are you doing? Like this guy hates immigrants. He's just like, My dad's sick and this is the last chance I'll get to perform at inauguration in front of before my dad everyone's like, all right, Robbie drums, your eyes good enough. They're inTommy Dean  15:10  the USA Freedom kids. toddlers dance troupe who eventually had to sue Donald Trump's campaign to get paid for the gig. That's right. Yeah,Dan Ilic  15:21  that's right. Well, it was a very different thing two weeks prior. We all know the story as the Capitol Building was taken over by some enthusiastic World of Warcraft cosplayers. Unfortunately, for people didn't respond. It was very sad. To me, you have a family in America, how conservative are they? And how are they managing this moment in time?Tommy Dean  15:42  They're very conservative. They are. They're all the conservatives. They're NRA, they are Republican. They are Christian, right. It's trifecta of why I live in Australia. Very much very conservative, but they're also reasonable people, you know, so it's been kind of interesting. They've always loved Donald Trump. He's always been their president. They love the Republican Party. And at every misstep, as we would call it, they just saw it as an educational moment. We'll learn from that. That was my favourite. That's what make the most I've ever heard my mom say that since I was a kid.Dan Ilic  16:19  We'll learn from that. Oh, he'll learn he'll learn from that. Oh my god.Tommy Dean  16:22  How do you feel about your guy pay it off? A professional porn star?Dan Ilic  16:27  Oh, he'll he didn't know that you didn't obviously learn anything.Unknown Speaker  16:33  That's crazy.Dan Ilic  16:34  It's kind of interesting. I read I read a Reuters article today in kind of preparing for the show and a part of a whole bunch of telegram channels on the app telegram where Q anon supporters are going What the hell happened? What happened to the grand plan? Well, hang on just q not exists at all What's going on? This is gonna be very disappointing for those people to come back to reality.Lewis Hobba  16:56  Well, the guy who has been like the main queue and on a distributor like kind of people suspect he is cube but never confirmed. He sent everyone home. He his he did his post today was guys, essentially what the message was, it's over. Forget this. But the real like the real genuine friends who made along the way essentially.Tommy Dean  17:23  I've seen posts from some of my crazy friends that have been like queue oriented, who are saying the same thing. Look, I'm a little disturbed to work out this might have been a hoax. But I'm sticking to the fact that I researched for myself. I learned a lot of stuff about me. Sure. Flat earthers are idiots butDan Ilic  17:44  we had a we had a reason. Firms you spent a lot of time on the internet Have you come across many q anon supporters who kind of in your worldUnknown Speaker  17:53  knowTommy Dean  17:57  yourself bubbled you live in. Round Rock. question is how do I accidentally stumble into pitch?Lewis Hobba  18:06  I mean, I'd like to find out that Shane Warren was a secret.Dan Ilic  18:13  Now that the Trump administration is over focus for the former president turns to building the Presidential Library rooms have it It could be the first presidential library with a drive thru. Given that Trump has never visited a library fear mongers. What will the Donald Trump library look like firms? What do you reckon?Froomes (Lucinda Price)  18:30  Why can McDonald's said that he could make a mega McDonald's store? It would actually be amazing. I think kids would want to go to the Trump Museum, which would be great for America.Lewis Hobba  18:43  It would be amazing if it was like a full drive thru and you just ordered, you know, it was like, I'll have an out of the deal meal. I think that'd be great.Dan Ilic  18:55  So someone on Twitter sent me a reply to my drive thru dragon. He said yes. And you can order a magazine. I thought that was that was very good. That was very well done. Well done. Right before Biden was sworn in to systematically dismantled Donald Trump's legacy. Trump's landed in Palm Beach, Florida, and just moments after landing milania Trump left Donald on the tarmac so that Donald could wave to the cameras all by himself, which had people on social media wondering is it finally over? As in? Is their marriage finally over thromes Is it over between Donald and Melania?Unknown Speaker  19:31  Yes,Froomes (Lucinda Price)  19:32  I think it'd be it's so interesting because now that the stakes aren't as high like we can really enjoy the milania like lifestyle like hopefully she can open up a bit more and let us in because she's so mysterious and Interesting.Lewis Hobba  19:46  Interesting.Tommy Dean  19:50  I want desperately to wish that some there's some amazing story about how she got trapped in the Trump reverse.Froomes (Lucinda Price)  19:58  There is there isn't a amazing story and she's going to tell us one day.Tommy Dean  20:02  I sure hope so. Cuz right now I still have my money riding on she is a terrible person toDan Ilic  20:10  coming up at the end of the podcast we reveal what Donald Trump wrote in a letter to Joe Biden as he took over the Oval Office.Unknown Speaker  20:19  Exotic aka Tiger things could get a presidential pardon. annoyed this one Trump loyalists, I'll be pissed if that dipshit does make the President's list of pardons. they seize a rational here. It hasDan Ilic  20:32  been a big event in America in the last 20 years, there's been one man on the ground, covering it just like a journalist, but I hasten to add he probably wouldn't count himself as a journalist. He is a rollicking, roving reporter, I guess is probably the best way to do it. He's one of my best mates. His name is Brad blanks. He is on the ground in Washington, DC. He was there for you know, for the inauguration. Brad, welcome to irrational fear. How you feeling on the first on the first day of a Biden presidency?Brad Blanks  21:01  It's an honour to be on your podcast, right? Well, yeah, amazing. And you're correct. I am not a journalist. Like into the middle of the night. Yes, I am rollicking. I, I have to report something. It might not be of the highest IQ or intellect or academia, academia, but I will attempt to talk to those people and try to spin what I've learned from them to people that somehow try to understand me.Dan Ilic  21:28  I was thinking about this this morning, Brad, before I spoke to you, I was thinking, geez, you know, if you actually took all of Brad's work, and you had a look at every single thing he's ever made, it actually is an incredible slice of American and American history. Like over two decades, you've been on the ground at some of the biggest events in America. And you do get to the heart of the story in a roundabout way.Brad Blanks  21:54  Yes, and this one is proven very difficult. This is the heart of this story, which is essentially an inauguration where no one could get in and despair for for for the real life journalists that actually have to get a story. I'm gonna just go on the radio saying, There's men with soldiers, and I'm not walking past them right corners. I'm scared I I could do that. Get away with that. But what about the, you know, the Argentinian American correspondent that needs something. And they actually standing in the same spots as me at these locations around Washington DC, where there's really no story soDan Ilic  22:32  it must be strange. If there's no one out and about probably if you're local in DC, and you're just walking by the mall, you must have gotten harangued by 1000 recorders, to say how you're feeling like by the time it gets to you, you'd be like, it'd be like the SAG Awards, Brad blanks at the end of the line to the SAG Awards. Celebrities don't want to talk to you anymore. LikeUnknown Speaker  22:49  No, I've had enoughDan Ilic  22:52  for talking to reporters for the night. I'm just trying to get some milk and bread.Brad Blanks  22:57  cocker spaniels just been smashed by reporters from all over the world. He's like, Oh, my goodness.Dan Ilic  23:03  What is it feeling like? What does it feel like in in about in America to start off with and then how did it feel this morning? inauguration?Brad Blanks  23:12  Yeah, it's, it's interesting, cuz, you know, I feel better. You know, we in some sort of weird way, like, here's the thing with Trump, you always stopped when Trump was on TV on a Trump speech, and especially during COVID when he was actually carrying on television every day. It was incredible viewing from, and it was hard to because you're watching it with, you know, a comedic take or going, Oh, this is gonna be funny. And then you're realising, oh, my goodness, this is the president. This is quite serious. This is crazy what he's saying. So there's Yeah, you've had to balance yourself. And that's not very good to look at life through a lens where you're quite light hearted, and you're looking at a President speak and then you realise, oh, no, this is this is this is really shitty, what's going on? It's so so that's, that's good that that stress is off my brain.Dan Ilic  23:58  Right? You're so right. It's just a dud dilemma, because Trump is a really entertaining but be terrifying in every single policy decision.Brad Blanks  24:06  That's right. Yeah. And and so now we wake up and violence Yo, a lovely, sweet man. And, you know, when he does an Irish poem, it actually warms the inside of my heart, and I'm not a big whiskey drinker. But when he does an Irish poetry, I want to drink whiskey. He is that kind of guy. But I don't know how many long speeches Am I going to watch of his compared to lining up to watch Trump so in some ways, there's a pressure off and it'd be interesting to talk to like light night TV hosts, comedy writers in that field of how they how their careers to hell look for the next four years what Stephen Colbert going to do.Dan Ilic  24:43  I'm pretty sure Stephen Colbert won't be bereft of jokes. I think there's plenty of humour to go What does what does DC feel like right now?Brad Blanks  24:54  Yeah, so I did by I watched inauguration. It was 12 noon. You know, American East In seaboard time, I finished I went out onto the street for one more walk around, there was maybe 30 extra people on the street. And this is the one street that runs parallel to the Washington mall. And let's say about 600 700 metres away from the mall away from the White House away from the Washington Monument. And there are people out there walking around having fun playing some music, but no fanfare really not like um, it's hard to compare to like the Obama inauguration in 2008, which I will 2009 January that I went to which was 2 million people and it was just madness, you know, and fun and, and then I went to the bill clinton inauguration in 97. January and that was an absolute free for all where I was partying with death, Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders until three in the morning I like like a young backpacker, go and God bless America. So this experiences is a lot more quiet. And as I said, I walked down the street that's parallel to the mall, closest to you the White House and you know, 3040 people, more people than there were thereDan Ilic  26:10  last night. I imagine if people were allowed to go to the inauguration you would be partying with the Golden Girls because of job.Brad Blanks  26:17  That's right. And you'd be socially distant. You're hugging Yeah, and you know, fake hugging so yeah. A very weird experience to be a reporter behind steel fences and barricades SoDan Ilic  26:33  did you get anything for your new york radio hit at all did you get Did you get any good? Any good content?Brad Blanks  26:42  I've actually had a very fulfilling reporting experience like why Why? I think Tony up there no way I'll give you I'll give you the why. stuck in a bedroom doing radio reports for nine months. reporting on COVID when I've been stuck in a bedroom out the end of Long Island. I really don't know. People would call me and I have to do radio reports on how New York City's feeling and I'm like, What the hell am I gonna say Audrey got my mic. cosy. who's living in the city? Well, how the hell do I know I'm sitting in my room? I haven't left I go out to get groceries. This isDan Ilic  27:15  out of touch with a common man Brad you out in the Hamptons, India. banca people from all over Australia calling you to want to know what's going on is thatBrad Blanks  27:30  cow Stephen Ivica today's show or sunrises told all my mates in Australia but they seem to have Australia America burning and coming out into the real world. And it's actually not bad. The traffic's really heavy. That seems to be a lot of commerce. It's just at the Washington DC straight to shut down and there were no insurrectionists anywhere and other than just, you know, it was just it just looked like a basing cabal or Baghdad. It seems America is on the right track, thenDan Ilic  28:02  you watch the inauguration closely. How did you feel about his speech?Brad Blanks  28:06  Yeah,Unknown Speaker  28:07  great. Fine,Brad Blanks  28:08  you know, hit all the right marks. You know, I think he's speakings got better, which is interesting, you know, as a guy that's aged to the last year and he's, you know, where they say he ran, he's, he's home, he ran for president from his basement. And he's out and getting a bit of sunshine. He sounds great.Dan Ilic  28:27  I think they've increased the font size on the autocue.Brad Blanks  28:32  He stumbled a few times, I noticed that he repeated a couple of sentences that I'm like, Oh, poor guy, butDan Ilic  28:37  you we forget that he's a dyslexic rock. He's you know, he's actually dyslexic. We kind of forget this.Unknown Speaker  28:43  That's right.Brad Blanks  28:45  He was good. And he was one of the people that were like our G's are putting up a year ago. The Democrats are putting up a 77 year old against Trump. This is gonna be it. What are you doing? What are you doing? He just kept winning a lot along the you know, along the trail and, and now he's president and I'm, I've warmed to him. I mean, I feel good with the big guy and he's fun and cheerful and likes a joke. And now, anyway, not that. I don't vote but I thought I'd vote for him cuz he likes a joke. Yeah, it seems like a good man.Dan Ilic  29:20  Yeah, he loves it. He loves a good smell of a woman's hair just like any other man. Well, Brad, now that Trump is gone, there's probably more hope that I will absolutely be allowed to return to America. So I have to visit you and soBrad Blanks  29:35  will you. Please write out your secret service photo of you somewhere?Dan Ilic  29:39  And I have no doubt I have no.Brad Blanks  29:45  Morrison handling you? Yeah, Prime Minister Morrison is he? Does he like you? Oh, he doesn't care.Dan Ilic  29:49  He doesn't care about NATO. Brad Brad. Nobody cares about me. I'm just a little fella with my little podcast. Yeah,Brad Blanks  29:57  you're the most winningest podcast in History. That's right.Dan Ilic  30:01  You don't win Best Comedy podcast. Right. Here's the trophy. You know, just like Scott Morrison, I've got a trophy on my desk.Brad Blanks  30:11  That makes me so proud. I can always say that you brought the best out in me when I was at the porno award.Dan Ilic  30:19  Yesterday, there was, you know, I was thinking that that trip we did in 2008 was eight there was an incredible trip all over America. And you made some funny stuff.Brad Blanks  30:30  Yeah, it was guy. Well, you you inspire me That was good. I mean, I think I got profusely ill the night of the porn awards. Were in the press room and I got sick there. I don't know what happened. Maybe I'm not as kinky as I thought I was.Dan Ilic  30:44  Maybe picked up an STD from the expo floor.Brad Blanks  30:48  That expo floor. Oh, my goodness. It's like, you know, the Royal Sydney show, isn't it?Dan Ilic  30:54  If you want to see Brad, on the floor in Las Vegas, at the porno award, something a video that I directed and produced with him. I'll add the link in the show notes. So you can check that out Brad blanks. Thank you so much for spending some of your evening with us. Thanks, Dad. WhatBrad Blanks  31:09  is it for? democracy, Dan, democracyDan Ilic  31:11  have a safe drive back to New York City. Yeah, thanks, myBrad Blanks  31:14  good man. Brad blanks. They'reDan Ilic  31:17  coming to us from his own hotel room in Washington DC.Lewis Hobba  31:20  It's interesting that the know the focus, the fact that journalists are so used to having a constant churn of insanity to report on. And now suddenly, like, everyone's wired, everyone's like, match fit for insanity, and there's no insanity to play. And I really wonder where that energy is going to go. Like, for me, if I was a world leader, I would be nervous, because for the last four years, you could shit on a stall in the middle of Parliament. And it would not be the craziest story of the day. Like you could do almost anything and get away with it. Whereas now, like I saw today that Scott like Scott Morrison opened his mouth. And I don't know if you guys saw this about talking about the 12 ships that arrived in Australia, and the day that Australia Day and whether or not it should be celebrated. And he is out his argument was, it wasn't to flash for the guys on the ships either was his was more or less his quote. And like a week ago, mid insurrection, that might not have hit the news. But today, all of a sudden, you're like, Oh, that's that's the stupidest fucking thing that I'm gonna hear today. All of a sudden, the dumbest man in the room is you you've got to like keep your shit together. Now,Dan Ilic  32:35  after we've lived through this moment. It's kind of like, I'm thinking about Scott Morrison is Hey, what's the premises to is this was his This is what's going on. It'sLewis Hobba  32:44  it's always so low for four years that you had to do nothing to jump over it. Now, we could be the lowest barDan Ilic  32:51  or right now in America, everybody's trying out crazy each other to kind of play to the Trump base so they can consolidate the base around themselves. I don't know if you're saying like what Ted Cruz is saying is awful. And what Mike Pompeo is saying is awful. All these folks are trying to kind of position themselves to be the 2024 kind of new Trump. And so they're trying to out crazy Trump in order for those Trump people to kind of attach themselves to them. So that's kind of the kind of the really annoying thing right now is that Trump is gone. But now there's 10 more Trump's because there's his base that is ready to vote for them.Lewis Hobba  33:28  It's a babushka doll.Unknown Speaker  33:31  And Trump,Tommy Dean  33:33  sort of stupid Hydra. Yeah, but I'm also I do have this little bit of hope in me that, you know, one day, we will come together because of a group of Trump supporters will be coming down the aisle, and another Trump supporter group is coming down the aisle. And they're both I sort of extended each side of crazy. And they're going to be wanting to talk about how awful The world is. And then together as two disparate groups, they will suddenly discover as one, that T shirts are still unbelievably cheap at Walmart. And they'll be so happy and they'll all buy a new t shirt that says America. It's kind of okay.Dan Ilic  34:11  Yeah, thank God for globalism.Tommy Dean  34:13  I have to go back to make it great again. It's always been kind. Okay. Yeah. We have to show I think it was never terrible. even talk of it being in ruin now is oversold. It's always been kind. Okay.Dan Ilic  34:27  I think 2021 that's all you can ask for. You can ask for it. To be kind of okay.Tommy Dean  34:33  Kind of, okay.Unknown Speaker  34:35  Australia Day, it's all about acknowledging how far we've come when those 12 ships turned up in Sydney, all those years ago. It wasn't a particularly pleasant day, but the people on some on those days was either irrational fearDan Ilic  34:48  and that's it for rational fi A big thank you to tell me Dane listen to friends price and Louis haba. Do you folks have anything to plug Tommy's gonna plug anythingTommy Dean  34:56  I'm going to be showing OkayDan Ilic  35:03  friends do you have anything to plug? UmFroomes (Lucinda Price)  35:05  Yes I have my flats ladies remix of my song for him so the song that's going to come out next weekUnknown Speaker  35:11  well Excuse me.Unknown Speaker  35:12  Here's where you mixing it. facilityFroomes (Lucinda Price)  35:17  is coming out next week and then wait for the album drop at least byUnknown Speaker  35:22  August.Dan Ilic  35:22  This is a prank gone too far forUnknown Speaker  35:27  the whole time.Lewis Hobba  35:29  I can't wait for the invitation to the wedding.Dan Ilic  35:33  Louis Do you have any Do you have any shows coming up maybeLewis Hobba  35:36  one in February that you want to fly just I just found out about a really great show. A 100th episode of rational fi in February giant dwarf theatre you'd be mad to miss it. incredible lineup of guests, including the much better me Hamish Blake.Dan Ilic  35:53  But perhaps we haven't sold just waiting for him so I can announce it. But he said 10 selected so I'm taking that as as as locked in as locked in as a good piece of Lego.Lewis Hobba  36:03  I mean, that's specifically not what pencilled in aDan Ilic  36:08  big thanks to rode mics, the birther Foundation, our wonderful Patreon supporters with whom we cannot do this. By the way, if you are a Patreon supporter, you get discounts to the live show. So make sure you head along. Look at patreon getting a discount code plug that in. Now I'm going to leave a big thank you also to Jacob Brown, Virginia gay Rupert Degas killing David David bluestein. Our discord jockeys COVID kisah p McNeil ads pay to Lola and Miss Maddie pay will leave you with this. As is tradition. Most presidents leave each other a little handout or note wishing the incoming president Well, we've actually managed to get a copy of Donald's letter that he gave to Joe Biden, here it is.Unknown Speaker  36:47  Dear Joe, as your senile I will write this letter slowly. As I leave the White House with my wife and her look alikes. I reflect on my time here as a career highlight of their with when I play the successful hotel owner in home alone to last in New York, even though you had the highest amount of votes in US history. I had the second highest and second is better than first, just just two is higher than one. That's just a fact. So with that in mind, congratulations on pulling off a hoax election and undermining the country. I dos by red cap your way. And I've chosen to write this letter in my finest grant. You have ruined democracy in ways I could only dream and I usually only dream of the hamburger. But as a chick with big Tata. It has been an honour being the president of a country that would allow me to be president. Sincerely, Donald J. Trump. PS Follow me on parner PPS, actually, don't follow me onDan Ilic  37:54  that. Thank you. That was the wonderful Rupert Degas written by Kelly and David and produced step by Jacob round. That was very good. Thanks, everyone. That's it. Love it.Unknown Speaker  38:03  Thanks, man.Unknown Speaker  38:04  We'll see you next time. A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/ 100th EPISODE LIVE SHOW ANNOUNCEMENT!🎟️ COME SEE A RATIONAL FEAR LIVE. Feb 10th, Giant Dwarf, Sydney:https://giantdwarf.com.au/events/a-rational-fear-100/On this holiday episode of A Rational Fear, Dan Ilic and voiceover artist, mega-talent, Rupert Degas, take you through a year in A Rational Fear sketches. It turns out putting all the sketches back to back is a great way to recap 2020.Hope you enjoy it — as we say around here: Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays,  and defund the IPA.Dan AND — DON'T FORGET TO GET TICKETS TO OUR LIVE SHOW!We're turning 100! Which means we're updating our will, and we'll add you to it if you come to our 100th episode live show. It's going to be a 90 minute celebration of the little satirical comedy podcast that could. Featuring some new and old friends of A Rational Fear.Alice Fraser (The Bugle, The Last Post)Sami Shah (ABC Melbourne)Gabbi Bolt (TikTok)Lewis Hobba (Tony Martin Look-a-like)Dan Ilic (Romper Room)+ 2-3 Special (big name) guests we will book at the last minute.WHERE?: Giant DwarfWHEN?: February 10th, 7:30pm-9pmHOW?: Buy Tickets HereWHY?: Best to buy a ticket first, and answer this question later.PATREON 💸:It costs a bit of money to make each episode of A Rational Fear — . If you enjoy our podcast, funny emails and important climate change conversations chip in here like a good sovereign citizen. We want to raise enough money we can start to make a video a month. If you believe in the work we're doing chip in — www.patreon.com/arationalfearThanks to:Big thanks to The Bertha Foundation, our Patreon Supporters and RODE Mics. Jacob Round.A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/ 100th EPISODE LIVE SHOW ANNOUNCEMENT!🎟️ COME SEE A RATIONAL FEAR LIVE. Feb 10th, Giant Dwarf, Sydney:https://giantdwarf.com.au/events/a-rational-fear-100/ SHOW NOTESHere is the latest Greatest Moral Podcast of Our Generation featuring two great brains to help you deal with talking about climate change with your family at Christmas, Sarah Wilson and Dr. Rebecca Huntley. If you think there's even the slightest chance you'll have to talk about emissions reduction schemes with an uncle that listens only to 2GB, or feel like you may have to tell a cousin that “baseload power” isn't a thing, or tell your sister in law that a “gas led recovery” isn't going to make electricity cheaper, then this is the podcast you'll want to listen to.Both Sarah and Rebecca give great insights into how to talk to people about climate change, and you on turn can take action yourself.Also in this podcast Linh Do and I rip into the month of climate news, and there is a lot of it.AND — DON'T FORGET TO GET TICKETS TO OUR LIVE SHOW!We're turning 100! Which means we're updating our will, and we'll add you to it if you come to our 100th episode live show. It's going to be a 90 minute celebration of the little satirical comedy podcast that could. Featuring some new and old friends of A Rational Fear.Alice Fraser (The Bugle, The Last Post)Sami Shah (ABC Melbourne)Gabbi Bolt (TikTok)Lewis Hobba (Tony Martin Look-a-like)Dan Ilic (Romper Room)+ 2-3 Special (big name) guests we will book at the last minute.WHERE?: Giant DwarfWHEN?: February 10th, 7:30pm-9pmHOW?: Buy Tickets HereWHY?: Best to buy a ticket first, and answer this question later.PATREON 💸:It costs a bit of money to make each episode of A Rational Fear — . If you enjoy our podcast, funny emails and important climate change conversations chip in here like a good sovereign citizen. We want to raise enough money we can start to make a video a month. If you believe in the work we're doing chip in — www.patreon.com/arationalfearThanks to:Big thanks to The Bertha Foundation, our Patreon Supporters and RODE Mics. Jacob Round. TRANSCRIPTION FROM  OTTER.AI: Unknown Speaker  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by the birth of foundation.Dan Ilic  0:04  Hello, rational fearlessness is the fourth greatest moral podcast of our generation. These are long form conversations with climate leaders that come out monthly on this very feed. And joining me is co host and fellow birth or fellow lindo gaylin.Linh Do  0:18  Hey, hey, Dan, what'sUnknown Speaker  0:20  going on? Now? IDan Ilic  0:21  know something's going on your life. You suffered a major life milestone this week. Congratulations on enduring life to reach 30 years old. Well done.Linh Do  0:28  Thank you. I feel like I have finally evolved into a fully fledged human. I think this is when I begin my adult use. This is just how it works.Dan Ilic  0:36  Yeah, well, you will you and I were meant to start many years ago, but I only became an adult when I turned 36. So that's different.Linh Do  0:42  Oh, I've got six years to go then that's that's pretty good. I'm really enjoying this extended youthful years and just trying to proclaim that I am young at heart if not in actuality anymore.Dan Ilic  0:52  Well, I don't want to put any kind of climate things in context for your age. But by the time many of the nations who have committed to net zero by 2050 reach those targets, you'll be 60 How do you feel about that?Linh Do  1:04  Off devastating but you know, when I started doing climate stuff, everyone was talking about 2020 and you know, all of the ambition that was needed by Ben, and someone surfaced up a video clip of me in my you know, teenage years saying in 2020 I'll be 30 and hopefully climate change anyway, it's like very, very clear. It's awful.Dan Ilic  1:22  That sentence reminds me that there were so many Greta tunberg before Greta turn Berg and you were just one of them.Linh Do  1:27  Just one of them. Yeah. And you know, I think I just didn't have a catchy enough name. And I didn't do anything as bold as striking from school. I'm still very diligent, I think Had I known then what I know now maybe I should have started striking a little bit earlier and we wouldn't have to be talking about 2015 when we're 60.Dan Ilic  1:44  Well, people who are on this journey with us include new Patreon supporters, including Carl Christopher appears and someone called Grandmaster to sweet Thank you Grand Master to sweet. I'm recording my end of irrational fear on gadigal land in the urination lane, whose land Are you recording on?Linh Do  1:58  I'm on the land of the will run through people.Dan Ilic  2:00  sovereignty was never stated we need a treaty. Let'sUnknown Speaker  2:02  start the show. Despite global warming. Rational fear is adding a little more hot air with long form discussions with climate leaders. Good. This is called Don't be frightened. The heat waves and drought greatest mass extinction Morrow we're facing a man made disaster podcast ration all of this with global warming and a lot of it's a hoax. But write a small podcast about generation. For short,Dan Ilic  2:41  yes. And this week, or rather, this month we speak to two giants of the Australian writing community on how to have difficult conversations with your family and friends about climate change. It's a it's a pretty good time of year for this episode to come out when you say LynneLinh Do  2:54  totally I think the holiday season is gonna be great initially because we have seen people Jitta COVID lockdowns and whatnot. But after a couple of hours, you'd be like, Oh, right. That's my Uncle Ben, here's maybe a bit of a climate denier. Is that my cousin who doesn't believe in vaccines? How do I broach some of these topics? And I find it's been a hard one to talk about for years. Well,Dan Ilic  3:14  let me tell you, the two guests we have on the show today are going to be able to help us through those tricky conversations. We've got Sarah Wilson, and Dr. Rebecca Huntley, and they, the conversations are great. I had a really good time with them. But first, Lynn, let's Miss rip into this month's climate news. There has been a metric shit tonne of climate news this month. Incidentally, a metric shit tonne was all the carbon that Chevron managed to capture and store the golden planet wi this year. Climate nice climate jog for everyone. Are you overwhelmed by how much climate news has come out in November?Linh Do  3:48  I think like in November, but honestly this entire year as well, I think second to COVID surely climate has sort of been really up there in terms of things are constantly being announced both like good and bad, which is great, but very overwhelming and very surprising.Dan Ilic  4:02  First up, the treasurer isn't happy that financial institutions are deserting fossil fuels. So there's only one thing a treasurer can do launch an inquiry. According to the nine papers, federal Treasurer Josh frydenberg, has thrown his support behind a proposed inquiry that will grill financial regulators and banks over plans to pull back on lending or insuring on mining projects because of climate change. This is a this is a weird story. It's like the treasurer isn't noticing what's happening around the world.Linh Do  4:30  Yeah, he's not at all about the macro trends. It's only about the micro and only about what's happening in his own backyard.Dan Ilic  4:36  Should we be so surprised that a government has spent the entire pandemic trying to sell expensive gas to Australians and trying to sell coal to China who are refusing it? Is it any surprise that a government that's racked up the largest debt and living memory is giving away billions and gas royalties that they can't do the maths on fossil fuel investment?Linh Do  4:53  Not at all. I don't think we're ever getting back in the black and you know, and even though I'm 30 now still a millennial at heart and it's so Sometimes can feel like it's much harder to get a loan for a mortgage than it is to get a loan for a big coal project. So it feels like if I just changed a couple of words in an application and be like, Hey, here's the money like go right ahead. So it's really disappointing that the government tried to make that all the more easy. Yeah,Dan Ilic  5:14  you shouldn't be but you shouldn't be trying to buy a house where you only own the first six inches of soil. You need to be digging underneath.Linh Do  5:22  Yes, gotta gotta dig dig, but uh, just go big ol Gerhard.Dan Ilic  5:26  It's kind of interesting. Like, it's so funny how, you know, if the government can't get their way on something like this, they have to go, Oh, we need an inquiry. an inquiry we should get an inquiry going? Because it seems like the science and financial markets are wrong again.Linh Do  5:40  Yep. everywhere around the world, and even like from some different state governments as well, it just does not seem to make any logical sense at all, which, I guess is not surprising when it comes to our government.Dan Ilic  5:50  Well, it's certainly not surprising that Australia wasn't invited to speak at the UN Climate ambition summit last week. Was that something that caught you by surprise at all?Linh Do  5:59  It didn't catch me by surprise, but it was definitely a bit of a gleeful moment, I could not believe that of all people that we were snubbed by it was Boris Johnson. I don't know what that says about skarmory. But that is not that's not something I'd want to be known forDan Ilic  6:11  was really interesting, because Boris Johnson, of course, is hosting cop 26 next year, so he's got to kind of be on the front foot, he's got to look like he's acting on climate change, because everyone around him is coming to the party next year, to be part of it next, next November. So he's got to actually, you know, be one of the leaders. And so that really puts you in an odd position. I think it's so funny how, you know, Scott Morrison, two weeks out from the climate ambition summit said he's not going to use Kyoto credits anymore when trying to kind of meet the Paris targets. And that would have been a good enough thing for him to allow him to speak at the climate.Linh Do  6:45  told the reaction, right, like such unrealistic and unmatchable, like expectations are really big tantrum. And then at the very last minute be like, okay, maybe I'll concede maybe I'll do this. And like lots of people like, hey, that's great. But it's like, but was it really?Dan Ilic  7:01  Yeah, the whole the whole conference is called the climate ambition summit. There's nothing ambitious about not cheating. Like, that's not ambitious. That's the bare minimum. It's so interesting.Linh Do  7:13  I'm not doping.Dan Ilic  7:14  Here's some of the things that are announced on that climate ambition summit, the UK announced they'll cut emissions by 68% of 1990 levels by 2030. That's a further 10% increase in ambition, the EU committed to the new target to 55% of carbon emissions compared to 1990. By 2030. Israel and Pakistan have committed to not building any new coal plants. I'm sure that's harder for Pakistan than Israel to do. But China also has committed to a quarter of energy consumption to come from non fossil fuels by 20 3015 countries committed to much stronger NDC or nationally determined contributions. Lean for people who don't speak climate, what is an NDC?Linh Do  7:52  So when the NDC I can't believe it. Wow, sorry. I was just so eager to add to that, because I clearly do speak climate and climate walk the crime that doesn't get invited around to dinner party. That's right. So one of the big things that came out of the Paris Agreement was that every country agreed to an end deseo to this nationally determined contribution. And the whole idea is rather than listening to that big global world order and doing things that might not fit for your country, governments could consider what their domestic obligations were, what other issues I had going on all those sorts of things, and determine how they were going to reduce their emissions by how much and went by. And one of the things that I think is a really great feature of this, like whole MDC acronym business is the idea is, you don't just lock in your goal, once you actually lock in your goal. And then every couple of years, you revisit it, and you re assess based on how well you've been able to do. So if you like smashed it, right, let's go a little bit harder and keep pushing for an even better personal best, essentially,Dan Ilic  8:45  is this what they call the ratchet mechanism. Lin.Linh Do  8:49  Yes, I don't even know if ratchet is a real word. I have honestly looked it up in the dictionary before be like, is this a hatchet ratchet? What am I saying? But it's just this whole idea that we are ratcheting up so ratcheting I think means increasing. Again. I don't know if it's actually that in the dictionary, but it's how climate people use it.Dan Ilic  9:06  Right. Excellent. I believe it's a old school like it's an old school tool, like it's a ratchet. It's like a spanner you kind of pull it and pulling mechanical, mechanical thing. Also, at the climate ambition summit, the UK, France and Sweden will stop financial support of international fossil fuel projects. It's not just Australia just writing Berg. Also net zero targets have moved forward from 2050 by Finland, Austria and Sweden. Also the small island states coalition committed to net zero by 2030. And there is going to be a tonne more money from for the Green Climate Fund support developing countries to skip the whole fossil fuel part of their industry. 500 million euros from Germany, 1 billion euros from France. Now when you compare all of those incredible announcements to Australia going, you know what, you know, we have been shading the last 20 years to meet our climate emissions. You know, tell you what we We're not going to shoot anymore since 1997. We've been filthy little cheats, but we're not going to do it anymore. Do you think that is a good enough thing to put on this put on stage in front of the world?Linh Do  10:10  It's so embarrassing. And I really hope people continue to mistake me as being from Australia rather than Australia without, you know, some of their recent new announcements, happy to move to Vietnam.Dan Ilic  10:21  A couple of other things quickly just seemed odd, done declared a climate emergency for New Zealand. Does it have any kind of real world implications? Lynn?Linh Do  10:29  I mean, yes, and no, I think it's one of those things where we love to stab some politicians. And just Cinder is like definitely one that those of us in Australia really love. So he caught me by surprise that Greta toon Burg was a bit critical of that, but I think it's right like can you really stand a politician? Can you really do that while still holding them to account?Dan Ilic  10:47  Yeah, a couple of other things quickly. One sad thing and one happy thing. The sad thing is more than $3 million dollars of the Australian future fund has been invested in the Carmichael mine, the Adani Carmichael mine, the 60 wishes, that is a quite, that's a $3 million isn't a lot of money. But it is our money that's being invested in this dog of a projectLinh Do  11:09  that might not even get up and when I say might not even highly unlikely to get out. I don't know how many years we've been talking about this. Now no one will finance this project. There's no viability for it. But we're still pouring money literally down the drain.Dan Ilic  11:21  It was discovered by Ravana Ross, who is a human rights lawyer for the Australian Centre for International Justice. And basically she did fly on where the money was going, he was going into this project. Because a Danny has strong links to the Myanmar military regime and supplying them with logistics and support for their military, which of course has huge human rights implications because of the treatment of the Rohingya population. So that is pretty interesting, like, not only is Australia committing their own human rights, but they're indirectly supporting a Danny's support of Myanmar's human rights problems,Linh Do  11:58  the company we keep increasingly becomes more and more depressing both on climate and human rights issues.Dan Ilic  12:04  Let's wrap This news segment with something a bit more hopeful South Australia's liberal state government predicts that the state could boast more than 500% renewable energy by 2050. This is the Liberal government in South Australia saying South Australia is going to become a net exporter by 2050, up to 500 times their own capacity of renewable energy. Isn'tLinh Do  12:26  that incredible? It really is. And these are the big numbers that you want to hear. You know, on top of Tasmania being powered by 100% renewable energy South Australia leading the way, it's really clear that like liberal governments can do something just maybe not at the federal level right now.Dan Ilic  12:40  It's just head butting Li crazy that the federal government can't even jump on board with any kind of climate action because they've pinned themselves into this corner where it would be politically impossible to do they've done their anger.Linh Do  12:53  They really, really have, it feels like the Liberal Party needs a little bit of help talking about climate change within their own regs, because clearly, they're quite divided on just how we should tackle this issue.Dan Ilic  13:04  That's it, I'm going to start a new company, rational fee is going to pivot to helping solely the Liberal Party communicate about climate changeLinh Do  13:11  with one another, like let's just stop it because it feels like there's some good eggs in that cap. And like, you know, we've heard from a few of them on this podcast. So how can we spread that good message?Dan Ilic  13:20  I haven't got that little party money yet, so please donate to the Patreon. Still, it's really required. Anyway, let's get cracking into the interview. First up is Dr. Rebecca Huntley. She and I discuss the ins and outs of communicating climate change and climate science with basically anyone her book is called How to talk about climate change in a way that makes a difference. And you'll find out by listening to her that there is, there is a couple of things that can help you with your dinner party conversations.Unknown Speaker  13:49  You're listening to the greatest moral podcast about generation. First of all,Dan Ilic  13:55  I'm a big fan. So thank you for doing this.Rebecca Huntley  13:57  I'm a big fan of you. It's a mutual fan Association Appreciation Society.Dan Ilic  14:03  I just remember seeing on stage years ago, a guy and you're talking about something and I just thought she's the funniest person I don't know.Rebecca Huntley  14:11  Well, I wouldn't describe myself as Australia's funniest market research. Which I, which is a claim that I can back up having been to many market research conferences in my time.Dan Ilic  14:23  That's what we do in irrational fear. We bring the biggest brains with the biggest laughs to the programme. So it's great that you're you're joining us. And you've written a book about how to talk about climate change in a way that makes a difference. In fact, that is the title of the book. Yes, yes. That's right. You're You're now on a podcast called the greatest moral podcast of our generation. So I'm familiar with wordy titles. I thought it'd be great to get you on to talk about exactly what your book talks about. Because in the lead up to Christmas, people are going to be hanging around their lunch tables with relatives who may not agree with them on climate change. And I thought this could be a great primer for Christmas lunch. had a bit of a testy kind of moment last Christmas talking about energy and climate with one of my cousins. And thankfully, a lot of other my other my cousins are lawyers, and they came to buy defence at Christmas lunch. But it was a very interesting, it was interesting conversations. We're talking about renewables. And I was just saying, well, it's, you know, this government was saying that this government needs to invest more in renewables and really make a market incentive to have less coal. And I think my cousin at the time, probably still is a big TGV listener and said, Well, absolutely crazy that he went down the baseload power route, or the write down about all these kind of talking points that the carbon lobby have. Yeah. And then, thankfully, I've got some cousins who have done some extreme reading around energy. They're like, Well, actually, so we're having this fact often buddyRebecca Huntley  15:44  mentioned you killer, which put nuclear in the mix? That's always a bit of a indication ofDan Ilic  15:49  No, no, no, no mention of nuclear. I wonder why? I don't know. Yeah, no mention of nuclear. Got a bit testy there around lunchtime. And I thought we're heading into Christmas. Maybe there's a better way to handle this conversation. Yeah, let's talk Rebecca has written a whole book about it. But the very virtue that you've written a book may not mean that you you'll have much success at your own Christmas lunch?Rebecca Huntley  16:12  Well, look, it's interesting, I suppose the first thing I need to say is that this year, more than any other year, people are, probably people's tanks are pretty low. And they're probably feeling pretty stretched emotionally because of the year and a level of uncertainty. So I would approach these conversations with loved ones with even greater trepidation, empathy and understanding. That being said, we aren't we don't have the luxury of not talking about hard things, because people are tense, because people are going to continue to be tense. And of course, Christmases are always going to be a trigger point. But people are tired. So I think you approach it with that kind of perspective. I think what's really difficult, and I think a lot about this in writing the book. And even more since writing the book is now my whole life is the climate movement and working with people in the climate movement more broadly, is that you need to also think about your own sense of self care. Where is the best place to put my energies, one of the things I see a lot of is burnout in the movement, and people feeling like they're just such at such a low ebb. They want to walk on the streets, grabbing people by the shop, shaking the world, what are you doing? What are we doing? So my sense is unless you really want unless you've got the energy, and you feel like your relationships are close enough, you know, to try this out at the dinner table, I think the first thing to really talk about is just really understand why people feel the way they do. And for your cousin who just listens to 2g Bay, my first question is, are is GGB, the main place to get your information about climate. And for me, one of the most powerful things and I do this every now and then on Twitter, and I think the reaction that I get on Twitter is a bit of an indication of how effective this is. So sometimes when people have a doubt me about renewables, not being able to, you know, meet our energy needs, one of the things I really enjoy doing is retweeting stories about that already happening. So what's already happened, like we've just had a, we've just had it mixed, you know, some achievements in Tasmania, in South Australia, the kinds of projects that were lampooned by TJ Bay a couple of years ago, and now making enormous amounts of money. One of my favourite examples is, is the tomato, the soul powered tomato farm and Porter gusta, which is creating jobs for people who had actually been in a town that had been abandoned by the fossil fuel industry. So there are tonnes of examples all around Australia that we don't champion that gives us a sense of what is possible, right, right now and in the near future in relation to renewables.Dan Ilic  18:49  So sitting down to Christmas lunch, the first question is to my cousin is, Oh, that's interesting. Where do you get your climate information from? Right.Rebecca Huntley  18:58  And then I think part of it is also recognising that we get it to a lot from you know, the guardian or the rest of it. And, and, and Rebecca Holly's Twitter feed. And, look, it's really difficult. And in the end, I think one of the things that we save from the research that we do, and the search I'm doing at the moment, which which segments Australian communities around climate and how they feel is that you don't always have to convince people about the climate science to convince people about the solutions and broadly about 90% of the population thinks wants renewable energy to provide our energy needs and understand that coal and gas there are well, there might amplify the amount of jobs that the coal and gas industry can produce domestically, but they're not naive about for example, the fact that the coal industry contributes to pollution significantly, which contributes to health and things like coal seam gas, even even Alan Jones can agree that coal seam gas is not a good solution. To our energy needs, because of the consequences, it has on a whole range of things, including, you know, food security and farmers. So there are ways I think I'm always looking at ways to not to sidestep but negotiate through conversations to keep those conversations going, as part of an ongoing challenge that we all have to head towards the solutions asDan Ilic  20:23  quickly as this is a very easy thing for a beggar hunter researcher, who is researching all of Australia's climate values and segmenting people into demographics. If you're not Rebecca hoppy, should you read up on the latest IPCC report? Oh, going into Christmas?Rebecca Huntley  20:39  Well, that's a really, really good point. One of the things that's fascinating in the work that we do on people who are alarmed about climate change, which is definitely on me. So when we ask people, what's their biggest, the biggest challenge they face the biggest obstacle to talking more about climate change or doing more is they feel they don't know enough about the climate science. And to tell you the truth, you don't need to know that much. You only and and you only need to know enough to help you have that conversation. And in fact, in the work that we do, which segments that community, the only segment that feel like they absolutely under the sun, understand the climate science and a really confident are talking about it. What segment is that? You could give nerds deny the only group that genuinely feel like I know all the climate science, I'm across it, right? And I'm really confident talking about it is 9% of the population that denies all the rest of us feel like we can't talk about it. Why? Because we actually respect the expertise that sits behind the climate science. We know that if pretty much every single scientist in Australia with a PhD says this is happening and it's a serious problem. We need to believe them. Because for whatever reason, and I'm I've thought about this, we just we just Australians generally respect, expertise. It says there's exclusive exclusions to that. But in general, when we say Where should we be getting our information, the CSR, the Bureau of Radiology, we trust them,Dan Ilic  22:13  nothing kind of highlights that more than the crisis of COVID-19. I think like when you compare Australia to America, like watching Australians fall in line with the cops is more interesting than watching Americans try to grapple with their freedoms of not wearing a mask.Rebecca Huntley  22:29  That's exactly right. And well paid Evans can get and get a certain way. There is a point where everybody goes, No, I'm sorry.Dan Ilic  22:37  Yeah. He kind of lucky that on the rational fear, we have been making fun of those outliers, because they are so funny on Twitter and their social media is hysterical.Rebecca Huntley  22:46  I think making fun of them is the best way forward. But we do need to be vigilant, because one of the things that's really clear is that is that the more they get an opportunity to circulate these blatant untruths, the more people assume them have followers. So once again, the research has shown this time and again, when you ask people who believe in climate change how many deniers around the community, they always put it at 20 25%. It's 9%. So we add, those views are amplified. And as a result, we think they're more widespread than they actually are.Dan Ilic  23:20  I totally agree like talking with Matt cane the other day on irrational fear. I was like, man, what's up with your party? Why? Why are they full of climate deniers? He's like, well, Dan, I would say majority of liberals believe in climate science. And one climate action is just that we've got a few people in the federal level, who making all the noise. I think that's, that's so interesting.Rebecca Huntley  23:41  I'm a more prepared to accept that there'll be people in the community who are climate deniers, and their job is not to run the country. You know what I mean? Their accountants, their teachers, it doesn't matter. And in the end, I think banging our head against a war to convince them is a waste of time. However, if you're in Parliament, you have a larger responsibility,Dan Ilic  24:00  while you're saying is there a six climate deniers you need to change the minds? Well,Rebecca Huntley  24:05  we're not going to change their mind, we need to change the mind of the people who elected them to say, they deserve better representation that's happened in Moringa. And I won't be surprised the next election you'll get a lot of those climate deniers have a significant scare certainly in the lower house. I mean, it's one thing to and this is the thing that that that in the book on tonight and the chapter on denial, I say this, there were times where I fantasise about being a climate tonight because my wife would be a lot easier. I mean, I could I could give up what I'm doing now and and pursue my love of making jam for a living or whatever, or designing you know, designing a modernist dog houses, I could do whatever I wanted to do, you know, I would be released of this kind of jewel, passion fear that I have around climate change and feeling I need to do something about it. So I get why people denied I get why people want To push back on the reality, but I cannot guess that people who represent the community empowerment cannot see the opportunity that we have right now the economic and other and broader opportunities we have on acting on climate, because for the first time in a long time, we don't have to turn ourselves into knots to make a case for renewable energy bank, something that's going to be good for people for jobs for pollution. We don't have to make that case that case has been made, which is why people like Matt cane can make that case and the Liberal Party. So that's what I don't get.Dan Ilic  25:38  There's an insane amount of money to be made.Rebecca Huntley  25:40  There isn't a lot of money to be made. There is a lot of benefits to communities to be made. I see it all the time. They were the mostDan Ilic  25:47  infamous or famous versions that is that the Daylesford community yeah with their with their one wind turbine chapter two wind turbines now they're an exporter. Yeah. of electricity.Rebecca Huntley  25:57  And the original investors are making money. That's great. Yeah. I mean, it just can't clear it's just I mean it all you need to do is add Labrador puppies and it's the most wonderful story. Almost unmitigated, wonderful story. I'mDan Ilic  26:12  saying the same here. You invest in renewables for your community, then you can go and make bottlenose dogs.Unknown Speaker  26:19  Right for those Labrador puppies.Dan Ilic  26:21  What's interesting about your book is that it's kind of like when you look at the chapter list, it kind of reads like a therapy session. Yeah. guilt, fear, anger, denial, despair, hope, lost love. Why don't you just call it a cold love? That would have been?Rebecca Huntley  26:39  Well, look, it's interesting, because some I used to be talking to Sarah Wilson, and we've been friends for a long time. I think she and all of my friends who were very focused on emotion in their lives think it's quite funny because I'm the ultimate rationalist. right a lot of great PhD. They're constantly tase me because I'm not spiritual. I'm not emotional with a warm you know, I'm, I'm not particularly emotional. I think I can count the times I've cried in the last 10 years, probably on one hand.Dan Ilic  27:05  I think you and Sarah have written companion books, in many respects. Your book is kind of raiza it's it isRebecca Huntley  27:14  it still may it's still I'm still doing the research. Oh, yeah.Dan Ilic  27:17  So the research I but it's like it's it's a different kind of book to Sarah Sarah's is very spiritual in a, in a kind of journey, yours is, is very different based on lots of other kind of aspects. Do you think you need kind of both in your world,Rebecca Huntley  27:32  we need 10s of 1000s of voices. And Sarah is one voice that will appeal to certain groups of people who might pick up my book and not like it other people, it will be Sarah's will be too spiritual. And they'll want to kind of understand the science. But there is an overlap, in that Sarah is actually interested in the research, like she's not a complete, she's not a paid Evans,Dan Ilic  27:54  she's not completely distracted, our distance from her books got a lot of science,Rebecca Huntley  27:59  it has a lot of science in it. And we have those conversations. And for me, there's a emotional personal story in it that I wouldn't have normally put in my work. But it was important to be able to acknowledge that because it's what drives my climate activism. And it's part of my climate story. And that's what we need more people developing a climate story, whatever that might look like.Dan Ilic  28:22  And to clarify that up you what you're talking about is your kids. I mean, you're you talk about the beginning of your book about how you kind of got into this, you kind of acknowledged a little bit earlier on in our chat that you're kind of a Johnny come lately, the climate? Yeah. How does it feel to kind of come late to the climate saying, Do climate activists look at you and go, where have you been? Like,Rebecca Huntley  28:43  I'm very, I'm very gentle in what I when I identify what have been some of the perhaps the tactical mistakes made? Because I wasn't around You don't? That whole Adani convoy, that was a big mistake. Well, I mean, I'm very careful about that site like that, byDan Ilic  28:59  the way, that's gonna sound bad in the transRebecca Huntley  29:02  if it's pulled out, because I never doubt that what people are trying to do is get to a goal that's bigger than it is right. So I know and I know there's so much pain and suffering and genuine love in the in the climate movement. And also there is just okay, what's going to work it's one of one of the things that fascinated me about the climate move when COVID here is when COVID hit every other sector that I was involved in all other workplaces just kind of froze in the headlights. Everybody knew in the climate movement was like, Okay, what do we do now? Like they were just part of that they just had such get up and go on with it. So it's like, how do we take what we were going to do? Understand COVID and keep going and actually it sustained me in so I've, I feel like I'm getting so much from being involved with people and also there's a willingness and hunger for some new People who are prepared to spend their time helping in a collaborative sense. So it does feel like I've come light with. But I would say this one occasion when I feel guilty that is that I have spent 15 years understanding how Australians feel about everything else. And how they feel about climate change is connected to that if you're economically anxious, you're living in regional Queensland, and you always feel like government is letting you down. When you talk to somebody about climate change, they're not responding to the science, they're responding to all of that. Right, if you live in the inner city, like me, in you behind the tumeric latte curtain here, particular views about particular values about Mr. Evans tear down this wall. And then that's it. So I think in a way, it's been a circuitous path towards climate change. But all understanding and knowledge that I've got from that I've worked for years with the superannuation industry. So understanding the role that it can play now, in climate change is actually important. I've spent years working with the big supermarkets and understanding that that's going to help us well, you have spent this time doing this, whatDan Ilic  31:10  do you think are the things that connect all those elements together?Rebecca Huntley  31:14  Look, I think the first thing we have to we have to get is that there has been a consistent and a consistent and very effective campaign to make climate change, a question of cultural identity politics, and unravelling that is near difficult in the time that we have available. So we have to understand where people come culturally and socially to the issue in order to address it. Yeah, that's the first thing I would argue. This is why somebody like Matt Kane, and that has to inform our tactics.Dan Ilic  31:52  Yes, it is so strange, too. I am not a liberal voter I've ever been voted liberal for a very long time, if ever, and it's one of those things where seeing Matt Cain operate at the level he's operating, and making the noises on renewables is genuinely exciting to me. Oh, it'sRebecca Huntley  32:10  so excited, like,Dan Ilic  32:11  Oh my god,Rebecca Huntley  32:13  I didn't know it was outside.Dan Ilic  32:14  That is the champion we need. I feel like there's a champion in those circles to change them.Rebecca Huntley  32:20  In fact, when he first started talking, I remember just looking at me thinking it was like, you probably too young to remember this. It's like when you're watching Funniest Home Videos, and there's a father doing something, and you're like with his kids, and you're like, at some moment, he's going to be kicked in the nuts. And I just don't know how I tell I felt looking at Matt Cain, I thought what's gonna out there?Dan Ilic  32:42  That was my question. My question is, are you going to be assassinate?Rebecca Huntley  32:47  Really, I really was. She was that same? That same moment of kind of nervous tension laughter about when he was gonna be whacked, but he hasn't.Dan Ilic  32:58  As someone who worked on Funniest Home Videos, Rebecca, howRebecca Huntley  33:00  did it change, theDan Ilic  33:01  lexicon is growing hit always the greatest growing hits,Rebecca Huntley  33:05  I was waiting for a God Almighty growing here, and it hasn't come. And in fact, it's unlikely to come just because of what happened what they managed to push through Parliament, New South Wales Parliament last week, which is that they're just going to be creating best putting those building blocks in. And once that happens, once a community starts to see the benefit, they don't turn back, they don't turn back when they know that those things are going to work. So no, absolutely. And in fact, one of the big insights coming out of this book was the importance of in the same way that the voices of deniers have been amplified. We need to amplify the voices that that I suppose. And pique or surprise people, this person cares about climate. That's why I was so interested in farmers for climate action, around a lot of a lot about faith leaders talking about climate, from the point of view of their faith, and conservatives of all kinds really, critically important. It's important because different people have to see themselves as having as people like them talking about climate and talking about the benefits, or we don't make that connection.Dan Ilic  34:18  One of the things you can suggest in your book is to not use catastrophic language. Yeah. This podcast is called irrational fear. It's, it's a it's kind of a joke. Oh, yeah. I'm using catastrophic language. And Rebecca using catastrophic language is fun. Yeah, absolutely. I know if you know that. So like, but why shouldn't we be doing that?Rebecca Huntley  34:40  Well, I mean, again, it's all horses for courses for some. And this is why understanding who you're talking to, and where they are now and where you might be able to shift them is critically important. All right, if you even five or six years ago, when I was when I was concerned about climate, but it wasn't the main part of my life. I actually did have some friends in my Who would just would use this language and I would just kind of, you know, shrink away, I'm gonna be, again, you might be too young for this. I remember years ago, when Bob Carr was premiere on on New Year's Day, he released this statement about climate change. And I remember thinking about what was at stake for the environment, and I'm thinking, he's gone mad. I just couldn't understand it. Now you look back at it. And he's obviously reading the climate science. You know, it's all you know, many things you want about Bob Carr, he genuinely cares about the environment. And I wasn't receptive at that moment for that, but something happened. And now I raised the uninhabitable Earth and other things, and listen to some of the climate science and which I do every now. And then I don't do it all the time. But it's important to keep my eyes focused on the task. So I'm receptive to it. It's absolutely clear that there are other audiences that are completely unreceptive and may never grow to be receptive. We need to think about how can we shift them political behaviour, consumer behaviour, you know, bit for other reasons, right. We need to inject a sense of urgency for them that isn't about walls and fire and all the rest of it is about something else. So you distil it's all about? I'm not saying never use it, I'm saying understand the impact that it's going to have so understand the audience, why are using it and what you want to get them to do for me, I would dip into something like the uninhabitable Earth maybe once a month, or I'd tune into her site I just the other day, I was listening to some of the latest science, just about the challenge of not just reducing emissions, but drawdown like dramatic like drop when I started thinking, because every all of my work moment, is completely focused on renewables and emissions. And then I started thinking, that's just one side of the problem. Yeah, just thinking. And I started, and my friend, he was also on the zoom texted me and she said, Are you are you? Are you having a panic attack too? And I said, Yep. And badly. It was important because I walked away thinking I actually need to start doing more research on the jewel language around drawdown and emissions reduction, I have to get my head around it.Dan Ilic  37:16  This is probably a good place to mention that you can look up the carbon emissions from your car with a go neutral sticker for $90 going to show for offset 3.5 tonnes of your carbon from your car and you can put a sticker on the back of a car, you know, I just did this Yeah, then check out the link in the show notes. And five bucks of that comes to us.Rebecca Huntley  37:35  Now this is f this sounds like it sounds like completely fake. But actually, I did this week go.Dan Ilic  37:43  Oh, so you got my cast away from listening to our podcast,Rebecca Huntley  37:47  not from your podcast, sadly, bash, but I saw them on Instagram, I thought because so I'm in the situation where I want to get a Navy, but I've probably about three or four years away from getting one yeah. And you know, in a bit of a you know, COVID is meant I bless my marriage. So I don't know if huge amounts of money. So I thought this is a really good bridge between what my car is now and when I'm going to get a Navy. I mean,Dan Ilic  38:12  it really doesn't do anything except for purchasing with other people that you're a good person, but that'sRebecca Huntley  38:16  not a bad bet in this area. And I'm deep behind the chimeric lotto circle. It's all about the virtue signalling. I can't shame people. I have a gun. The sticker on my car. I have so many. I mean, here, you could get beaten with a Hessian bag if you walk around with a plastic bag.Dan Ilic  38:35  Thank you so much, Rebecca, you for coming on irrational fear. I just want to maybe do a quick roleplay with you Sure. Let's pretend we're sitting down Christmas lunch. I'll be my cousin. Okay. And you can talk me around climate asRebecca Huntley  38:51  well look in these kinds of environments, just ending with a conversation that doesn't end in turfing, some kind of, you know, bread roll at the table isn't success, butDan Ilic  39:02  let's go. Okay. Well, you know, the problem with renewables is just another baseload power to to power the country. That's what we need baseload power. Why do you think that? Oh, just see everything I've read.Rebecca Huntley  39:15  With some wayDan Ilic  39:16  I've written in the Daily Telegraph, Andrew bolt, right headlight tells me all the time on TV, basically power. I've also done some reading on some great blogs. I can't remember the name. I've probably never be able to find a riceRebecca Huntley  39:28  book. Alright. Okay.Unknown Speaker  39:30  Well, I think I think, look, there isRebecca Huntley  39:32  definitely issues we need to make sure for people to really embrace renewables, we really have to know that they can feel confident that it can deal with whatever happens. But you know, one of the things that's really interesting is the CSI or the chief scientist, they say that stuff is already happening like in places like South Australia and Tasmania. This is already happening. So I'm not that worried about baseload powerDan Ilic  39:54  windows that give people cancer.Rebecca Huntley  39:56  Yeah, I don't think that that's a thing but I am I mean, I'd be interested if you want to share that material with me. I'd really like to have a look at it. I sentDan Ilic  40:04  a Facebook post about people got ringing in their ears from windmills.Rebecca Huntley  40:08  Yeah, no, I think look, I think that would probably have to put that to one side at the moment, I'd get it again. Some people like the look of windmills, some people don't. But the other day I was writing just in the Hunter Valley. Okay, so the Esma rate for children in New South Wales general generally is at about 12%. In the Hunter Valley, it's 18%. And it's all about the Open, open, you know, open pit coal mines,Dan Ilic  40:35  where those people go to work, they can't work in windmills.Rebecca Huntley  40:38  Well, the other thing, why should they can they can evil energy. But I suppose the other thing that we constantly do, and it's understandable, because, you know, none of us, none of us are economists at this table. Especially, you know, jobs in that sector in the hunter, getting less and less and less over time, over time, their project pretty much to disappear. You know, lots of the big renewable in lots of the big GM fossil fuel in areas want to get out of the Hunter Valley. There's lots of other opportunities in the Hunter Valley for jobs, especially if the government gets really good about investing.Dan Ilic  41:14  Even coal is such a big exporter for us, you know, we basically run a whole country on on fossil fuels leaving the countryRebecca Huntley  41:22  we have and that's been such an important driver to prosperity in Australia. I get that. I think one of the things that really worries me is a lot of the people that are buying that call are massively investing in renewables made real commitments to reducing emissions. And so we're going to start to say, a lot of that decline over time. We've got to be ready for what happens when it falls off.Dan Ilic  41:42  China is building 10,000 new coal mine coal power plants a day.Rebecca Huntley  41:48  Wow, gosh, really?Dan Ilic  41:51  Did 10,000 a day?Rebecca Huntley  41:54  I don't know if that's true place. Yeah. Again, look, can you send the stuff about the email and cancer stuff? Can you also send this stuff about the 10,000 coal mines? I'd really like to have a look anyway. We definitely. Do you want some chicken? I would love to have another conversation with you about this next Christmas. Anyway, you said that next week series called The Crown apparently it's really good. I don't know what it's about. SoDan Ilic  42:17  whatever that is, you're a coward. Rebecca, a coward. You could have had me on the ropes. Gonna slandered me. It's really hard to have these conversations with people that are in your family isn't there?Rebecca Huntley  42:29  But you know what the other thing in the book and I'm a big fan of Anna rose and worked really closely with her I once asked him should you ever argue with a climate denier? And she said only if other people around prepared to listen, overhearing the conversation?Dan Ilic  42:44  That is a wonderful aros thing to say.Rebecca Huntley  42:48  And I think it's true. So such great strategy. It is. So what I wasn't going to change your mind there. Bash anybody at the table, who doesn't want to talk about climate change has seen two things, ask be able to have a conversation which didn't deteriorate into name calling to there was lots of different bits of information that I throw in there, one of which is going to spark some kind of attention. But if people walk away from that conversation, thinking that two people on completely different ends of the spectrum can have an evidence kind of evidence. conversation about something that they normally see is a completely resolvable issue, then that itself is a tiny, you know, when one conversation is not going to turn people around, but a series of productive I'm not talking about respectful necessarily, because it wasn't necessarily being respectful because you caught up till by the end of it. I was over. And didn't was like yes, well, there we go. That's part of it. You know, that is so that for me, that isn't for me, the fact that I didn't lose it and say, Listen, you, knuckle bowgun shop, this is a great achievement given I've already had two glasses of champagne, and it's been a try. Yeah,Dan Ilic  44:04  I mean, it's hard to say that and take you seriously when you've got a paper crown on your head.Rebecca Huntley  44:12  That's exactly right. Yeah, exactly. Right. So there we go. It is hard. And I and look, there are times where I've failed miserably. And there have been times there was one time recently where one of my daughter's friends started doing all these weird things with plastic bottles and not putting them in recycling. And I said Listen, do you know that your body is awash with a million tiny bits of micro plastic? And he looked at me absolutely terrified and ran away. And my my, my daughter said to me, Mom, like everybody knows you like like your environment, climate change, but please don't scare my friend. I'm like, Okay, okay, but it would drive me nuts. He was like doing all these weird things with plastic and putting them in the wrong place. And I went nuts. So even even the people who write books get it wrong.Dan Ilic  44:58  You just especially 40 minutes telling me how what a rational person you are.Rebecca Huntley  45:07  That's true. Even even the most rational people lose it. We even the most rational people.Dan Ilic  45:14  Well, Rebecca, I'm thankful that we have less modernise dog houses in this preserve in our life, because we've got your brain to think about these problems.Rebecca Huntley  45:23  Thank you very much. And we got your podcast, too.Dan Ilic  45:26  Yeah. Well, that's right. That's it. You wanted more conversation? In your book, you say more people talking about climate change. So I started a podcast. Thanks, Rebecca.Unknown Speaker  45:35  Thank you.Dan Ilic  45:37  And that was Rebecca Hunley, she's pretty funny for a market researcher would be silent.Linh Do  45:40  It really is. And I learned so much turns out the best way to communicate about climate change isn't just screaming at all of your relatives and friends and neighbours.Unknown Speaker  45:49  Now you've worked with Rebecca in the past?Linh Do  45:51  Yeah, I have worked with Rebecca, before we met through Climate Reality. And once I learned that she was working on this book about, you know, how do you speak on climate change? I think I ended up being a really great resource for her because I've made so many of these mistakes, I was able to detail, top 100 failures, that time that I spoke to the bus driver about it that time I spoke to a school teacher about it. So here are all of the things I went and did wrongDan Ilic  46:13  that time because all of this time you had to speak to Al Gore about it.Linh Do  46:17  Yeah, and I like to use the word I mean, so complicated. But I think you know, given her understanding of what the actual Australian public is, like, her ability to still figure out how climate messaging resonates, regardless of political alignment, regardless of like other values, alignment, I think is really powerful. And I would definitely recommend skimming through the book, or gifting it to a couple of people over the holidays.Dan Ilic  46:43  Next up is Sarah Wilson, we had a great chat about her book, this one wild and precious life. Pretty interesting book. It's not too dissimilar to Rebecca's in that it kind of delves into climate anxiety, and kind of tries to help you with how to have conversations with people how to deal with climate anxiety on your own. But it's much more inwardly facing and kind of is about everything. It's about the whole gamut of Sarah's climate anxiety experience. And she kind of goes on this big rambley journey all around the world to kind of talk to experts and understand nature and humans in context with nature. And it's some it's really fascinating. Here's our chat.Unknown Speaker  47:21  You're listening to the greatest tomorrow podcast about generation.Dan Ilic  47:26  Let me start by asking you, how's your heart at this moment?Sarah Wilson  47:33  Thank you for reading my book that closely to quote lines back at me. My heart is in. You know what it's actually in a really solid place. This often happens after I finished writing a book, my books that taught self help tools, and they take me to a place where I have to get vigilant and real about the shit I share with everyone. You know, when you write a book about quitting sugar, you can't walk down the street eating a magnum for instance. And so when you write a book about waking up to this one wild and precious life, you've got to do exactly that. SoDan Ilic  48:06  I was actually experiment. I was actually curious as to why he didn't call the book I quit car, butSarah Wilson  48:11  it doesn't. It's not evocative. It really, is it I mean, I think sort of an ex ABC journalist or a scientist in Australia Institute thought, you know, sort of consultant would write a book with that title.Dan Ilic  48:25  I found the book, I think I tweeted the first few pages as I was reading the book, I like to think I tweeted at you I think this book is an extraordinary artefact for someone in the future to discover, because it feels like it captures a real contemporary anxiety of the moment. Is that why you wrote the book?Sarah Wilson  48:43  Yes. Although I had to write it in real time, because it was due before the Australian bushfires, and then before COVID, and then before the Black Lives Matters, issue, reared its head, all of which is related, of course, it's the same, what I call each that kind of dready, kind of anx de cringy itch that we're all feeling. But um, I came off the back of writing. First, we make the base beautiful, which is that internal journey to understand, you know, well, for me, it was to understand my bipolar and kind of general weakness, and to share that story with people who felt the same. But then, you know, as I was doing publicity for that, and moving around the world, and also keeping up my work as a climate activist, I realised that the anxiety was now global and collective. And it was way bigger than our own personal stuff, which was a relief in many ways, because I think a lot of our anxiety that we feel is about the fact that we should be attending to something bigger than ourselves right now, this time in history. So yes, I was watching listening angsting going into really deep despairing holes. And then I thought I better write a book about this, and really try to find A hopeful path and I struggled. As you know, Dan, because you saw me in the process, you know, around Bondi, well, IDan Ilic  50:06  know you are very competitive. You're a very compelling leader as well, like, you know, I did see around bonda. And you would, you would you would berate me for not going to protests and stuff like that. And then, you know, eventually ended up going to those protestsSarah Wilson  50:19  in the book.Dan Ilic  50:20  Am I? Yeah.Sarah Wilson  50:21  You probably didn't identify it. I mentioned those protests the September, remember? Yeah. Yeah. The September 2019, climate protests. And there was seven people that I targeted on the morning of the protest. And you were one of them. And all of you went? Yeah, I mentioned in the book.Dan Ilic  50:39  Yeah. Because I saw you were in a cafe and you said, Are you going to the protest, as I thought about it, just really busy. And I ended up just calling my fiance and say, let's get out of work and go to the protest. And that's exactly what we did.Sarah Wilson  50:49  And all of you I saw within 48 hours of the protest, some I saw that night celebrating or having a cocktail to celebrate the fact that they'd got engaged in it. And all of you I saw within 48 hours, and I went into a dark place when I came across all these people I thought were engaged to weren't rising to this opportunity, right, that was being laid out in front of you. And then every, every one of you went and brought people along, and then got back to me and told me that you went and said, It was awesome. Oh, I cried. I really, I cried with joy. And it was just a reminder of how awesome humans can be.Dan Ilic  51:26  It's also a reminder of the leadership abilities that Sarah Wilson can activate me to do six,Unknown Speaker  51:32  seven people at a time. Yeah,Dan Ilic  51:34  well, let's talk about that. I mean, that is one of the things about your book is intense, intensely personal. But it also talks about how we all have the power in ourselves to affect change. And so people who consider themselves as powerless people, that's not true. Everybody has an iota of power. How do you help those people realise that how they have through this book? And how do you encourage them to use that power?Sarah Wilson  51:59  Well, it's a seductive combination of statistics, right, that are backed by sort of many white lab coats, so people go must be legit, as well as sort of metaphor and story and reminders of what's happened in the past, which I think also helps people to realise that this is not humanity's first rodeo, you know, with this kind of things, a great high back colourDan Ilic  52:20  t shirt pandemic of the late 90s. We survived that I think we can survive it. Oh,Sarah Wilson  52:24  I mean, yeah, human hardship, we've done it. I think one of the statistics that people really resonate with and get fired up about is the 3.5% figure of hope, as I call it. So Erica Chenoweth, scientist at Harvard, decided to look deeply into what activated change and she looked at all the peaceful protests from 1900 to 2004. and analyse each and every one of them and found that were three and a half percent of any given population, whether it's a school, a town, a village, whatever, a country, get together, and activate and unite peacefully, the change happens, three and a half percent is not a lot. And I think a lot of people find that really activating. And it's everyday people just getting behind a movement and turning up.Dan Ilic  53:09  This is not just a community, like a nation, but they could be considered to be community like a workplaceSarah Wilson  53:13  or school, a school. Yeah, exactly. So whatever change that you want to happen, that's going to actually take humanity forward, you only need three and a half percent. So that's one thing I'll say to anyone who feels like what's the point? How is my little bit going to make a difference? The second thing that I try to use is these sort of various metaphors. And the way that humans work is we galvanise at an exponential rate, right? So change or care begets care, action begets action, exponentially. And I'll use the example as we like to in this sports, crazy country of the footy match, or the baseball match, or whatever it is the baseball game, where the losing side is down by three points, or whatever. And there's 30 seconds left in the game, and everybody's kind of going, Oh, god, this is all over. And then out of nowhere, the losing side kind of galvanises, this Kamikaze spirit, I call it Kamikaze. Like where they toss out all the normal rules, and just go for it. And as it's kind of groups, soul movement, or moment, and way too many games in history have gone down with that sort of final try and the last 1.5 seconds or the final, you know, fucking home run or whatever. And so this is what we do. We rise to the occasion in this exponential Kamikaze way when we give a shit when we care enough about somethingDan Ilic  54:35  I certainly know through university days that you know, when I know I've got a deadline coming that it really makes me work hard. I have to say that that metaphor really resonates with me, particularly when we were running the TV show tonight lay when we knew we were ending the show and we had six weeks left on air. We threw the whole wrote rulebook out and we made some of the most incredible memorable things. People actually started turning up to the show wanting to come and watch The showSarah Wilson  55:00  magic happens. I call it magic.Dan Ilic  55:02  It is Yeah, it is a strange period. And I do feel I feel so on board with you at this moment, I feel like this is the moment now that everybody needs to be pulling in the same direction and aligned. And this is anybody who's not could be left behind. And we need to encourage them to come along with us.Sarah Wilson  55:21  Yeah, I haven't, I guess the third element that I put to all of this, and this is something that Miss is missing from the climate movement and has been for as long as I've been on this planet. It's the fact that we haven't actually shown how joyful and charming this can be. And I think I've mentioned this to you before then that I went into a dark place trying to find the hopeful path forward three clusters. And I almost gave up, you know, was about to tell my us and my Australian publishers can't do this. Haven't got an answer, sorry, somebody else will have to come up with one. And my meditation teacher sat me down. And he said, Sarah, the thing is, you love living this way. You've got to show us how this can be charming. You've got to show us how this is better than the status quo, make it look sexy and fun. And I realised what he was getting that and, and that shifted the whole dynamic of my book and where I went with it. Like I was like, absolutely, that's how humans work. This has got to be such charming, it's got to be something that we go, game on, this resonates. This is beautiful. This is wild. And that's where that wild and precious notion came into play. Our nature is to give a shit, our nature is to care and to rise to bigger things than ourselves. And we haven't had that dialogue, particularly in Australia for the last 30 years of economic opulence, you know, continued growth, we haven't had that dialogue of going to our edge firing up caring at a level where we overextend ourselves, and, but yet, that is our nature. That is where we rise to our best selves. That's when we're happiest and we're most vibrant, and we're fending and we're creating, and we're resilient, we become resilient. And so that's, that was sort of my aim. So I think that's the third element to selling this, you know, I give a final kind of message to people who have become, you know, overwhelmed and numb, is that, hey, this is awesomely vibrant, and enlivening. And, you know, like, I live minimally, and I ride a bike everywhere. And I don't do it because I'm trying to be a marshal. I do it because I love it like living any other way gives me this, like Hideki feeling, you know, I'd much rather ride a bike somewhere, and smell the air and run into people along the way. Like not literally, but and, you know, live and breathe and see things and being engaged. Because otherwise why are we here?Dan Ilic  57:49  Yeah, the book is interesting. There's one wild and precious life is really interesting, because his journey itself, I feel like it's, it's rambley Not only is it rambley, literally because you go on a little walks, but it also figuratively, was that on purpose?Sarah Wilson  58:05  Yeah, you might remember the bit where my father refers to the book on the family. What thatDan Ilic  58:10  is, is a big chunk of everything. Yeah, hisSarah Wilson  58:12  book of everything, right, because somebody was, you know, my family, my family aren't known for reading my books. So they generally rely on dad to kind of read it and do a summary. So he just referred to a series book of everything. Look, everything got us into this mess, and everything is going to be required to get us out of it. And it is overwhelming. So the way I do it, I think, you know, I do these little tiny mini chapters, some of them are a paragraph long, some of them maybe up to three pages long. And the topic requires swapping from science to philosophy to spirituality to my own personal kind of reflections on it, so that it humanises it and makes it you know, gives a bit of a pause for people to sort of absorb it at a human level. So I am unapologetic about it and I wrote first we make the beast beautiful in a similar way because anxiety requires an outlet and then analysis of all those factors as well. And so I do dance between them all. And we shouldn't try to kind of bring it all in together into a into a seamless conclusion because the complexities of life don't operate that I do ramble. And they go off over here and, and part of it was to get people comfortable with that itself, with the uncertainty and the lack of order and the chaos because that is what we're in. Right.Dan Ilic  59:30  Did it help you with your climate anxiety or your eco anxiety? Yeah,Sarah Wilson  59:35  it did. 100% That sounds very emphatic. But I actually I actually did, I couldn't write this book until I did have that path of hope. Until I believed it and really owned it and, and kind of stepped into it and and and felt that it was going to be the guiding sort of force for me going forward in the second half of my life. I was down, I was really struggling to see the point of my existence halfway through writing this book. And really the the struggled as I tried to grapple with ways of solving this that I share in the book. were real. I was writing it in real time. So but I do you can feel it.Dan Ilic  1:00:20  Yeah, you can feel it, you can feel like the ups and downs of your of what is a very personal journey.Sarah Wilson  1:00:26  And I think a lot of people are going through that, but they don't necessarily articulate it because we don't have a forum for it. Everything sort of says, This is too much influx, and there's not enough discernment going on, right. So, but I did have to get deliberate about all the shit that I was telling people to do in my book. So, you know, I do have to leave out the practices. Like I said, I can't walk down the street with eating a magnum anymore. Well, I have to beDan Ilic  1:00:51  one of your friends who lives in your Southern I can't walk down the street with a paper cup of coffee. Dude, Wilson says, Man,Sarah Wilson  1:01:00  I know that's true. That became a bit of a theme in the book didn't that, but it's actually just one of those. I mean, people go, Oh, you know, one more takeaway coffee cups not going to make a difference? Yep. Sure. That's absolutely right. And in fact, recycling and cutting out plastics isn't even the tip of the iceberg. It's all climate change, we've got to accept that. And so that happens at a policy level and industry and the big, big end of town, but it's the optics, right? It's the care begets care, we need to see more imagery of people giving a shit, this has got to be the dominant discourse, otherwise, we will feel hopeless, and particularly for, dare I say it, white middle class men, they are the demographic missing from the climate debate in the climate, activism space. It's it's white men that are we need to get on board. So when I whenever I see a white man in bondo, with a takeaway coffee cup, I will go out of my way and suggest that they get a key cup.Dan Ilic  1:02:01  Well, if they're a white man in bondo, they've probably also got a podcast. So you go.Sarah Wilson  1:02:07  Go me sitting here in your lounge room right now?Dan Ilic  1:02:11  Well, let's talk about that a little bit. Because I think that is interesting. I feel like everyone is so busy with their lives that climate change, it sits on the back burner for a little bit. Now, I'm in the luxury of disposition, where I'm being supported by fellowship, and I can correct credits podcast and talk to great climate thinkers like you and other people. And I get to kind of use my power to kind of have some sort of discourse about climate change, and encourage others to apply pressure on those in power to do something with climate action through this medium, but if you're just a bloke who's got a job at a construction company, or what Look, what do you say to them?Sarah Wilson  1:02:53  Well, I actually have a dialogue with a white bloke in a construction company in the book, if you remember, who walked around with a takeaway coffee cup in a cafe while seated at the cafe. And he becomes a bit of a thread in the story. What do I say to them? Well, I say to anyone, and this is not my idea comes from the American Buddhist nun Premachandran, she said, start where you are. So if you're a nurse, working nights, if you're a busy parent with three kids, juggling, whatever, that's your starting point. And I use the example in the book of someone who lives around the corner from me and she's a mom of two kids. Pretty much what you're describing doesn't feels powerless, hasn't got a forum. And she just said, so again, it was the strikes the other protests in September in 2019. And she was like, Oh, look, all the mums at my school. The parents are just going it's too hard to get into the city at that time of day with a kid. And she said, maybe, maybe I could all get a minibus. And I said, do it and I get to get on the Eventbrite set it up as a thing, you know, you can charge the tickets. Anyway, it's sold out within an hour, she'd upgraded to a coach, she ended up upgrading to two coaches, and she got over 150 people to that protest. She started where she was, as a sort of fed up Mum, with with access to Eventbrite and Mary's coaches, you know, so I thought that was a great example. And then I shared that on my social media feed. And then I know that a number of people around the country did exactly the same thing at the last minute and it managed to get a coach load of parents and students who otherwise wouldn't have gone to that rally.Dan Ilic  1:04:36  I think starting where you are is the perfect place because in your own sphere, you have influence over other people, your peers, your friends, your family. Yeah. And that is that is completelySarah Wilson  1:04:49  and once you start as you know, and this is why I focus on keep cups right? Once you start once you buy a KitKat bite my friend, Kate's husband, Adam, he went and got himself a KitKat He was so proud of himself, right, you know, thought he was doing. And then he started taking a real interest in recycling and the recycling laws in the in the area. And then it started to grow further and further. So as I said before, actual care begets action and care. And so it generally grows, and then you feel empowered, you feel hopeful, the best remedy for hopelessness and despair is to actually just get engaged in whatever form possible even if it's just listening to the news an hour a day, you feel like you're part of it.Dan Ilic  1:05:33  Yeah. As a comedian who puts on shows about climate change, I've recycled so many jokes, it makes me feel so good. I'm doing something forSarah Wilson  1:05:42  keep doing more and more of it. Exactly.Dan Ilic  1:05:45  Do you get people pushing you back on your climate credentials?Sarah Wilson  1:05:48  I'm not so much, I think because nobody? Well, most of the world struggles to understand the climate science and to be an expert in it. I think what we've worked out and I think climate scientists are wonderful at this, I interviewed, I interviewed 14 different climate scientists, three of whom were involved in the IPCC report. And they are very good at admitting they're not the best communicators. So one of them, actually Joelle. And I forgotten her surname now, but she was a lead scientist on the paper. She said to me, Listen, our work is done. The science is in. And now we need to hand the baton to people like you, Sarah, who can communicate it.Dan Ilic  1:06:33  I have to say that was one of the biggest eye opening moments of the book, reading a book. I was like, Oh, yeah, shit, yeah. Why are we even trying to convince people? It's real anymore. We're pushing on powerful people to make change. That's right, because the science has done. Everything else needs a rollover, those who don't believe can forget it. It's about effecting change right at the top and getting that change in place.Sarah Wilson  1:06:55  Yeah, the scientists have been working in this realm for ages, the activists have been working, and just tirelessly. And so often, I was speaking to activists who are saying something similar. They were saying, we have been going at this for 30 years, and we are exhausted. All we need you to do is come and join us. You know, don't start up a new climate movement. We've got them all here. We've got the data, blah, blah, blah. Just help us out, you know, and so, yeah, I don't get it as much in this climate space, because I don't think that there's too many people. Well, I think everybody feels a little bit, we're scared of it. We most people can't actually digest all the information and feel that they've got a really good handle on it, to be able to give me a hard time about what I'm saying.Dan Ilic  1:07:40  Well, that's true. But also you've got a huge audience. Like, I feel like the Sarah Wilson radar consumer fan. Did you feel like you were bringing them along to a whole new topic that they haven't thought much about?Sarah Wilson  1:07:51  Yeah, and I have a technique for that. Um, you know, I've come from MSMDan Ilic  1:07:56  based media. Yeah, I trust mainstream media contrast,Sarah Wilson  1:07:59  no, no, no, that I thought he probably can trust somebody who comes from mainstream media, and has come out the other side knows the dark side, I'm gonna we're not gonna trust mainstream media, who are we going to trust at least they actually has a very goodDan Ilic  1:08:13  page that I follow called climate sucks.Unknown Speaker  1:08:18  A lot of good information.Unknown Speaker  1:08:19  He was pandemic.Unknown Speaker  1:08:21  I tried to find it, I couldn't find it.Unknown Speaker  1:08:25  That's it. That's it.Sarah Wilson  1:08:27  I what my technique and for anyone out there who's wanting to replicate this technique, is I tend to seed things with my audience. So I'll start talking about this writing about it in quite gentle ways, asking questions, like genuine questions, because I'm wanting to find out where people are at where their pain points at. And I actually held wine and chat groups. As I was writing this book, trying to get from people what it is that they were really struggling with, what aspect of the science, what aspect of the movement, you know, where where were they getting stuck. So I do that, and I start the conversation about three years before the book comes out. And so I do blog posts, I start to, you know, really start to build momentum. So by the time it comes out, people are already 80% onboard. They're signed on for the journey. They're signed on for the journey, they trust me, they know that I've been working this round, and they go, Oh, this is where it all went to. So it's a great marketing tool, but it's in terms of coalescing people around an idea. I think it's gonna work this way. You know, it slowly sort of start where you are. I started as somebody who could blog about this and share Instagram pictures and things and I copped the blowback back then and to answer your earlier question, I think I've spread the blowback out over about three years, and now people just accept I am where I am.Dan Ilic  1:09:50  I think that's changed for anybody. It's painful and growing is hard.Sarah Wilson  1:09:56  That's right. I actually don't mind Dan, I think you've probably worked that out about I try to moderate it, I kind of be the nice girl. And then I come out with something that really shifts people. And then I go into the comments and just time it all down. Well Hang on, you know, it is a sport. And I try not to get too upset about it or too invested in it. Because it's not about me, it's about people's fears. And then, and we've got to bear that in mind.Dan Ilic  1:10:20  And so to relate this back to people who might be listening to this, who, whose own sphere of influence is probably a lot smaller than Sarah Wilson's is what you recommend they do like in the lead up to Christmas, just send a couple of text messages and say, Hey, we know we should do we shouldn't use plastic plates for Christmas. Well, I would and then come Christmas lunch, let's sign this petition likeUnknown Speaker  1:10:40  I do much.Sarah Wilson  1:10:42  Look, what a warm up. As you know, as a comedian, you need the warm up, you need to get people's laughing muscles activated. I think that the best thing that you can do is the best place to start is where you are with yourself the most convincing and to go back to that sort of turning point in the writing of my book. I had to live and breathe it as somebody who believed my own message and did find this way of living, fun, exciting, dynamic, life affirming, because that is the most powerful way to get a message across. So anyone who's about to go and face recalcitrant relatives over Christmas, just freakin strap on your conviction. Pack your keep cup and buildUnknown Speaker  1:11:25  yourself up with charm.Sarah Wilson  1:11:27  It really is all about with charm. And yeah, and and just be your message.Dan Ilic  1:11:31  Yeah. Be your message. That's pretty nice. Yeah, I like that. When you're thinking about projects like this? Do you have a ultimate goal in mind? Like an ultimate outcome? What's the best possible outcome for writing a book like this for you? does it stop at the book? No. Again,Sarah Wilson  1:11:49  this is my marketing background, my MSN background. For listeners who are wondering who the hell I am, and, and why I'm here, or how I got to be here, I was the editor of cosmopolitan. So I sort of learned how to do marketing and to take an idea out in all kinds of monetizing directions. So I generally see that a books with my books, I generally have a life in them of a couple of years. So I try to ensure the message goes further in the conversation from my point of view goes further because I write books because I'm curious. And while I do do a lot of research in the lead up to it, and then I write it. Part of it is also a little bit of a kind of poking life and wanting to see what comes back afterwards. And then that will then probably direct me into my next project. But in this case, yeah, I always knew that this was going to be a complex conversation. It's a book about everything, as my dad said, I needed to get it out there. And then I needed to go and have the conversation with people in a in a way that made everybody feel safe to discuss this stuff, and to show them how to have this discussion out in their communities. So I'm doing a tour with Live Nation, which works to this effect. It's like a giant add on. I mentioned the add on in my Borger. It's a West bengalese sub tradition of talking about complex issues, over hours and hours of cups of tea in large community settings. So that's what I'm going to be doing. But then I also have these book clubs, I've drawn up a book club, sort of schedule sheets that people can use. And then they can use that to go and discuss some of these complex issues with friends and family. So it's likeDan Ilic  1:13:28  a training tool slash info bomb slash. And ISarah Wilson  1:13:31  just keep going and going. And I often don't know exactly where it needs to go. So I have a few structures in place. And then you know, and then I I just see what comes forward, but I will keep the momentum going. I don't see it stopping at a book and then I move on to something else. It's it's almost the starting point, the launchpad for the bigger discussion.Dan Ilic  1:13:51  Do you think this climate discussion will roll into your next big project as well?Unknown Speaker  1:13:55  Yeah,Sarah Wilson  1:13:56  I'm not quite sure what that is. It's starting to like it always takes me six months after writing a book, to start to get the energy to go get fired up about my next thing. And it's starting to percolate, I kind of have a feeling of where it's heading, but it'll probably segue off this into bigger and deeper and Wilder, but chairs your question about where do I want this book to take people like what was my aim? The initial working title for the book, really, up until very close to publishing was Wait, you know, five years up. And essentially that is what I'm wanting people to do. Um, for selfish reasons. I wouldn't mind you know, completing my allotted 85 years on this planet in some kind of comfort.Dan Ilic  1:14:41  And books are the kind of title do very well and justSarah Wilson  1:14:44  say, Do you have the word Paris and then your work? Yeah, let me just be really brutally honest. I want people to find the cup do everything they can. I want to galvanise I want us all to rally together have a wild time saving this one wild and precious life. That's what I'm after.Dan Ilic  1:15:01  And start where you are,Sarah Wilson  1:15:02  start where you are.Dan Ilic  1:15:03  I think that's a great place to end.Sarah Wilson  1:15:05  where we started. Yeah.Dan Ilic  1:15:08  I'm Sarah Wilson, thank you for coming on the greatest moral podcast of our generation.Sarah Wilson  1:15:13  I feel very, very privileged.Unknown Speaker  1:15:18  GM, great, a small podcastDan Ilic  1:15:20  of our generation. That was the wonderful, great and dare I say famous Sara Wilson's great to have her on the podcast always like famous people inLinh Do  1:15:29  Yeah, they're the best and nice joke there. I quit sugar, I quit carbon. I mean, it all rolls really well. ThankDan Ilic  1:15:36  you. Thank you very much. Um, do you read her book?Linh Do  1:15:39  I have read her book, actually. And I have to admit, you know, as someone who already speaks climate, none of these climate books are for me, when I read them. I'm always like, no, but you should be doing more. And I was like, I don't think anyone wants to read the book that would be written for me. I think one of my big takeaways about, you know, Sarah Wilson's workflow is she's had such a fascinating life. And I just really love how she's really not just trying to tackle climate change, but like, fundamentally changed the relationship that she has with capitalism, consumerism, and how all of that interlinks with all of these other like C word things, you know, she talks about COVID, of course. And I think if you can go from like hosting Mastership, to being an advocate for climate champion, I think there's hard for all of us to figure out how we can make climate an integral part of our identities.Dan Ilic  1:16:21  Absolutely. How can you be a climate champion as well? That's the big question for you listening to this? Well, what I do is I make a podcast when I don't know about you.Linh Do  1:16:31  You know, I just like live and breathe in and get a little bit angry and have to remember to read hot tips on how to talk about freaking others.Dan Ilic  1:16:39  That's the problem with climate change becomes your job and is your hobby and is also an existential crisis for you.Unknown Speaker  1:16:44  Yeah.Linh Do  1:16:46  Yeah. That's why no one's writing books for me, because like I am, it's a nice, it's a nice place to be. And speaking ofDan Ilic  1:16:53  see words, Christmas is coming up next week, and we do have a special Rupert Degas who does all of the comedy voices for all the sketches of irrational fear will be joining us to go through the years best sketches we've made on the show. So I can't wait to hear how that comes about. But that's about it for greatest moral podcasts of our generation. Thank you, Lynn.Linh Do  1:17:12  Thank you, Jan. Can't wait to be doing this again with you next year in 2021.Dan Ilic  1:17:16  Yeah, a big thanks to rode mics, the birther Foundation, go nutro Our Patreon supporters. Also Big thanks to Jacob round on tepanyaki timeline also big thank you to Dr. Rebecca Huntley, and the wonderful Sarah Wilson. Until next week, there's always something to be scared of good night.Transcribed by https://otter.aiA Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🌳 If you want to support the podcast and take your car carbon neutral, with GoNeutral here: http://bit.ly/GoNeutralThis week's show we go undercover as the Premier's boyfriend to get the arts funded, we open up a mystery package of seeds from China, KFC's feature film ambitions on the Lifetime Channel, also we discuss how Australia's climate action is ranked in the world. Fearmongers this week:Nikki Britton (Melbourne International Comedy Festival)Vidya Rajan (At Home Alone Together)Lewis Hobba (Triple J)Dan Ilic (A Rational Fear)Interview: Assaad Razzouk (The Angry Clean Energy Guy)Go see Nikki Britton's Christmas Is F#cking Cancelled: https://giantdwarf.com.au/events/christmas-is-cancelled/TRANSCRIPT BY OTTER.AI: Unknown Speaker  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by the birth of foundation.Dan Ilic  0:04  Good I Lewis How are you?Lewis Hobba  0:07  I'm really well how are you?Dan Ilic  0:08  You're really well well, why are you so really well,Lewis Hobba  0:10  it's December it's the Christmas spirit. pine trees in the airDan Ilic  0:15  is because school's almost over as well.Lewis Hobba  0:17  I you know, I'm not 16 rightDan Ilic  0:21  now, at the end of June at the end of your work, the end of your work, that's kind of what I'm getting.Unknown Speaker  0:26  I'm not a take, yaDan Ilic  0:27  know, I know. All right, forget it. I want to say a big thank you to our new Patreon supporters. big thank you to Michael de muitas Brendan nevel and Leoni. supriyo big thank you for that. Now you can support a rational fear by joining the Patreon yourself for as little as $3 us a month the money goes to us paying the cost of the show and getting various folks to work on it. And also what you get is an ad free version of the podcast you also get access to early lineups, and you also get access to our Discord server, where we kind of talk about the show together and comedy in general. And you also get Louis 20% discount to live show tickets. Because in the new year we are planning some big live shots including our 100th episode Lois,Lewis Hobba  1:12  really excited about that the big, the big sin tannery the tan, I'm thrilled I wanted to I thought once we got to the nervous 90s we might you know, do a Don Bradman and go out with an average of 99.9 to never make itDan Ilic  1:26  who knows there's still time to fail, there is still time to fail. We're going to be doing a 100th episode in Sydney at giant Wharf in February. So you want to get discount tickets for that but also loads we're going on tour. We've got a gun trying to go to the Melbourne Comedy Festival once they announce what's going on there. But also we're going to be doing shows in Newcastle, Cannes, and Thursday Island next year.Lewis Hobba  1:46  That's what I love about this introduction Dan I find out as much as the listeners.Dan Ilic  1:50  By the way, you're gonna need to get time off work to come. It's Christmas time and there is no better way to tell someone you love them by saving the planet and giving them a go neutral sticker for their car. For every $90 go neutral by 3.5 tonnes of carbon offsets which is about the average daily emissions for a car and five bucks of that comes to us particularly when or only when you use the special link in our show. notes so plays to by going from a sticker head of the show notes click on through and by go to neutral stick up. I'm recording my end of irrational feet on gadigal land and the ordination. sovereignty was never ceded. We need a treaty. Let's start the show.Unknown Speaker  2:29  A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks cambroUnknown Speaker  2:35  and gumUnknown Speaker  2:36  and section 40 of a rational fear recommended listening by immature audience.Dan Ilic  2:42  Tonight, scientists are examining a canister of dust sent back from an asteroid for signs of early life in the universe that one day in the future can be made extinct by a mining company. And at the 2024 Paris Olympics, breakdancing were featured as a demonstration sport to appeal to the core demographic of Gen X's who have to pretend to be young, and Apple has released $900 income cancelling air pods. It's the 11th of December. This is irrational fear.Welcome to irrational fear the show that takes the scariest stories in the news and cleans them up for dinner with your mother. I'm your host former captain of SpaceX starship Dan Ilic. Let's meet our female guest for tonight. One of the sharpest brains probing design gustan throwing truth bombs on Twitter. It's the master of mirth hailing from Perth, it's Vidya Rajan. Welcome Vegeta.Vidya Rajan  3:44  Hello. How's everyone doingUnknown Speaker  3:46  very well, very well. How's Perth doing?Vidya Rajan  3:49  It's being Perth. It's really hot today. And for once, I think it's climate appropriate. I don't think it's climate change today.Lewis Hobba  3:56  Another day of trying to succeed as well. Some hot take some milk the gallon not coming to the cabinet meeting.Unknown Speaker  4:04  Oh,Vidya Rajan  4:05  typical magallon at this point. I don't know. I don't know this is poll numbers go down and point is thatUnknown Speaker  4:14  session toysDan Ilic  4:16  and she's one of the busiest stand ups in showbiz. Despite being COVID-19 this year, she's absolutely played every major venue in the country that she's legally allowed to be in fresh from gigs at the Sydney Opera House. It's Nikki Britton Hello, Nikki. Very well, thanks for joining us on rational fear.Nikki Britton  4:33  My absolute pleasure. I have quite a few venues that weren't legal as well. But you know, in a way, where did you play where did you play like anything can be a venue really, Dan, you know, you just got to think outside the square.Lewis Hobba  4:47  You have the great privilege this year Niki of having done the Opera House, full and empty.Nikki Britton  4:53  Yeah. Bizarre times. I did the Joan Sutherland theatre, beautiful theatre. Opposite to actual That's exactly right. The Opera Theatre at the Opera House where they usually have the prison the ballets and things so there is no way that they were going to get these filthy mouth Little Rock on tours to do their 10 minutes in any other year except now offers in Belize the costs too big to make it legal. So I did a streaming show there with 12 people in the audience who were all wonderful Front of House employees from the Sydney Opera House. And at three o'clock in the afternoon, want to hear about my filthy jokes, but bless their hearts for being there. And then the other night we did um, about 700 in the Joan Sutherland soLewis Hobba  5:48  data from the bottom now you hearNikki Britton  5:52  the best of times the worst of timesDan Ilic  5:53  they say you play the judge Sutherland theatre twice in your career once on the way up.Unknown Speaker  6:00  Exactly right.Dan Ilic  6:01  And he was arrested once for being mistaken for the Slender Man. It's Louis harbourLewis Hobba  6:08  No, and I've got these COVID pounds on there.Dan Ilic  6:12  Coming up, we talk with Assad reserved who's the host of the angry clean energy guy podcast out of Singapore about Australia's latest ranking on the climate change performance index. Spoiler alert. We are total pieces of shit. But first, here is our sponsor for tonight. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Peter Dutton hereUnknown Speaker  6:32  wishing you and your family a Merry Christmas and reminding you that just like Santa Claus, I'm keeping a list of who is naughty and nice. Previously, if you were an Australian citizen, and you made a joke about a minister for instance of my dog looking like in the title, there was no way I could legally tap your phone or jingle yo. But as of today, Ico can be my own personal Elf on a shelf. And I can spy on anyone I want foreign more Australian for Australian that looks a bit foreign or worse, the leader of the dreams. So if you're gonna buy certain jokes about certain ministers, remember, potatoes have eyes and they could see when you are sleeping, and I know when you're awake. Just consider yourself lucky that Santa Claus isn't coming by boat, Polo or authorised I'm opposed by Peter Dutton. cambreDan Ilic  7:30  always good to have Peter Dutton this morning. The first fear this week the New South Wales premier may have pulled off a magic trick more impressive than David Blaine flying with a bunch of helium balloons and fighting on TV at the same time. Yes, a New South Wales inquiry into the allocation of more than $250 million of local government grants is heard that the premier Gladys berejiklian, announced 255,000 for Council in the state of walga during the 2018 byelection months before the application was lodged and processed. Some are saying this is not pork barreling. This is just extremely efficient distribution of money to an area of the country where the premiers boyfriend happened to be a member of parliament in but what do we know? Did we know? Is it magic? Is it not the premier is you know actually really good at magic. In October the premier made some documents relating to how $140 million worth of grants were allocated, simply disappear. Vidya Rajan, how is the New South Wales premier pulling off these incredible magic tricks?Vidya Rajan  8:36  Oh, I mean, she's just so skilled at this. She also managed to defeat COVID in between, you know, her test and appearing in Parliament. You know, she just knew she didn't have it. She's very intuitive. She's really special woman. I don't know. But you know, I think maybe people are going too far on this one because it's really hard being a singer, like a woman who has a job and has things to manage. And poor Gladys, you finally found love. And we're all coming down on him. Like you've got to you've got to do things to keep a man the love languages, there's five love languages it's how you show love and relationship as complements, quality time physical touch, acts of service and of course gifts. And I really feel Darrell Maguire that's his boyfriend I know that he's willing to give so she was just doing what she needed to keep him sorry. You know feminism back.Dan Ilic  9:38  Nikki, do you agree with this? This this take this hot techNikki Britton  9:43  look Yeah, I I kind of respect jixi for like it's just a repair to burn it all down for love. You know, she's got a lot on the line. And she's like, Nah, my debt like her and Darrell in their leathers rotting off into the sunset on the back of a highway. Just down to walkUnknown Speaker  10:03  across the board and itUnknown Speaker  10:05  justVidya Rajan  10:10  it should be I know that you know, I'm basil lemons remaking Australia. I think I heard that horrible rumour to be about Gladys and Darrell.Unknown Speaker  10:22  Absolutely.Nikki Britton  10:25  I mean, she's not a politician doing dirty day she's a woman holding on.Vidya Rajan  10:33  And I don't know if you've had a look at, Darrell, I was speaking or saying anything. Um, what it really tells me is that they have a very physically satisfying relationship, because you kind of speak.Dan Ilic  10:48  I, you know, the Guardian actually reports. So far the premier has declined an invitation to appear before the inquiry. First of all, it's nice to be invited, isn't it? It's just nice to be invited somewhere to go do something. But secondly, a magician never reveals her tricks.Vidya Rajan  11:03  It's also like, you know, she's just she's standing up for women. Like, I feel like the suffragettes walked so Gladys could run away from accountability.Dan Ilic  11:14  You know, Lewis, would you ever try to forge a relationship with a premier to you know, get something funded of your own?Lewis Hobba  11:24  Well, again, I work for the ABC. I don't imagine I could be a good enough love to get some money out of a liberal premier.Nikki Britton  11:33  It's an that is some incredible love bragging. WhatDan Ilic  11:36  about you? Would you Would you ever consider to forge a relationship with the premier get something funded of Europe?Nikki Britton  11:41  Oh, look, I've I've had this kind of behaviour. modelled to me through several international boyfriends who wanted phases. So yeah, I'm familiar with how it goes. I definitely. Yeah, look, is it? Is it someone who's going to fund the arts? Yes, I would have a relationship with the premierUnknown Speaker  12:02  and we would all support you.Unknown Speaker  12:08  immunity guys.Lewis Hobba  12:10  just reading the news, it's quite confronting when you try to just take generally across Gladys berejiklian News. And you're getting sort of two streams of news one is about her sexual relationship. And the other one is about pork barreling because when you just open the article, it says, darling Jerry Maguire, you're like, Oh, I hope this is money. And then the other thingUnknown Speaker  12:31  Yeah.Unknown Speaker  12:34  From his own backyard is a worst example of pork barrel and you canUnknown Speaker  12:37  findDan Ilic  12:39  Okay, second fear this week out of nowhere. 260 on identified unsolicited mystery Sayed parcels have been found in litter boxes around Australia this year. These are the ones that have actually made it through the net. Over 45,000 other seed parcels have been stopped at the border seeds make up 75% of biosecurity, interceptions, the rest are my relatives bringing food back from overseas fear mongers, what the hell is going on here? Nikki Breton?Nikki Britton  13:06  Guys. I'm not entirely sure what's going on. But I'm just thrilled. This is the hot woman story that we needed in 2020. You know, because you know, who's winning out of the story or the biosecurity stuff and the sniffer dogs? They've had nothing to do in Australia for the last nine months. They are thrilled to pieces they've had they, I mean, that how are they going to work from home when their primary? Their primary job is to just interrogate backpackers who has foreign nectarines in a luggage. I haven't had a chance to inspect that a hiking boot tread for any shred of organic material. How have their eyebrows coped with nothing to do for nine months because they haven't had the opportunity to Pharaoh in judgement. When you suggest on your entry form that you have not brought back woodcarvings from Fiji. The workmanship is impeccable it'sVidya Rajan  14:04  very good of you to point that out Nikki because they've been really suffering they haven't been able to racially profile anyone in so yeah. You know, Iran got the 70 people in like India is like a COVID night man I know so like that's usually the bread and bada sorry.Dan Ilic  14:24  Well, the United States Department of Agriculture belays of the mystery seeds this happening all around the world by the way. In the US they reckon it's part of something called a brushing scheme which involves sailors sending unsolicited items which are typically light and easy to ship some people have reported getting on solicited right bends in the mail. Some people have reported getting on solicited grant Daniels in the mail. It's pretty it's pretty phenomenal. And then they post fake reviews to boost sales.Unknown Speaker  14:53  What what are they?Dan Ilic  14:54  What are they trying to boost sales of more seedsLewis Hobba  14:58  if it's a if it's a brushing scam guys, I might have an idea about who's doing it, guys. Yeah,Unknown Speaker  15:04  yeah.Lewis Hobba  15:05  Russian hackers. Thank you so much. Yeah, yeah.Unknown Speaker  15:14  Wow.Unknown Speaker  15:18  This is a rational view.Dan Ilic  15:22  That's the scariest news story circulating the the net this week is that KFC is making a feature film on the lifetime channel starring Mario Lopez as Colonel Sanders. Here is the trailer if you've missed it a lifetime original Mini Movie, you don't answer my proposal. And now you're not answering my call.Unknown Speaker  15:41  I can find for the new chef.Unknown Speaker  15:44  Jessica is falling. But cook.Unknown Speaker  15:48  Jessica, skip town.Unknown Speaker  15:50  He has a secret recipe that's gonna change the world or the claims to have some secret recipe a secret recipe.Unknown Speaker  15:57  We all have our secret.Unknown Speaker  15:59  Cue marry my daughter. I promise they'll be more long weekends in your future. Mom, I have to tell you something. We have a problem. secret's out chicken man.Unknown Speaker  16:10  I'll take care of that.Unknown Speaker  16:16  Harland Sanders the new chef Mario Lopez is Colonel Sanders in a recipe for seduction premieres December 13. That newUnknown Speaker  16:26  time presented by Kentucky Fried Chicken.Dan Ilic  16:31  Can't wait for that. That's pretty extraordinary. Who's excited about the KFC Phil Nikki?Nikki Britton  16:37  I mean, I don't even know where to begin. It's it is described as a Mini Movie, which I'm sure they mean short film and just spin under the pump meaningDan Ilic  16:51  Wouldn't that be just a nugget movie?Nikki Britton  16:53  Hey, here it is just a bite sized chunk of a movie. Yeah. Um, I have some like, deep teenage fantasies about Mario Lopez. I'm saved by the bell days. So this is I'm in a real conundrum here. I mean, am I turned on by the 11 secret herbs and spices? Sure. Sure. Sure. finger licking good guys. Levels now.Dan Ilic  17:18  Do you guys do you guys think it's kind of an effective effective marketing vigia?Vidya Rajan  17:23  It's so good. Like it's such good not everyone's gonna hate watch it and they're gonna have a bucket of chicken in their lap while I do this. It's just, it gets in your head. It's perfect. I am vegetarian and I kind of want to buy kale.Lewis Hobba  17:41  Is it gonna spare Do you think like a copycat series from like every fast food chain? Like will there be a sort of, like Ocean's 11 heist of the hamburglar?Dan Ilic  17:52  Um, I'm really glad you brought this up. Because locally, some people are getting in on the act including Red Rooster. Have a listen to this.Unknown Speaker  18:00  The following trailer contains adult themes and gratuitous plucking from the people who brought you KFC recipe for seduction, and McDonald's mayor's mug to use comes in all new all Australian romantic fast Boomer drama.Dan Ilic  18:22  your legs, your breasts, and your skin is so I was gonna say crispy.Unknown Speaker  18:31  He's MY man. You can get stopped. Oh, yeah,Unknown Speaker  18:35  you're the chicken.Unknown Speaker  18:40  So if you ate chicken salt is that like cannibalism Of what? ThatUnknown Speaker  18:48  rational fearUnknown Speaker  18:49  presents? Red Ruta. Oh, yes.Unknown Speaker  18:55  Yes.Unknown Speaker  18:56  Oh, yes. Yes. One chicken one car at a Sunday. Spit Russ to remember. Read Russa when love takes you under it's worrying. It can leave you in pieces.Dan Ilic  19:17  There we go. I believe it's right at our say you go.Alright, moving back into truly scary topics the heat death of the earth and what exactly Australia is doing to prevent it as it turns out, not very much. But we are getting better. According to the climate change performance index when it comes to climate action. Australia has jumped from the bottom of the ladder up to rankings from 56 to 54. Well then Australia, we are finally bidding Petro states like Iran, Saudi Arabia and Kazakhstan. When it comes to climate action. We did it one day we will be better than Russia and Belarus and Lithuania will get There. Who knows, in fact, this weekend there is a United Nations summit on climate change, where countries who have made recent gigantic leaps and bounds in their climate policy have been invited to talk to other world leaders about what they're doing and how they're doing it. And guess who isn't invited? Scott Morrison. There are two things that happen this week on Saturday, the agent Sydney Morning Herald celebrated a huge shift in climate policy from Australia because it was leaked to them, that the federal government wouldn't be using Kyoto carryover credits in order to reach its Paris targets, which is kind of like celebrating Lance Armstrong for not using drugs to win the Tour de France. Well, then he didn't cheat the usual way. Excellent. Then on Tuesday, Catherine Murphy from the Guardian reported that inside this week's cabinet meeting, they've been actually no decision on carryover credits, and that we shouldn't get so we shouldn't basically give up on Australia cheating its way across the line with its Paris Climate obligations too soon, we can still cheat. That's really good news for everyone. Joining us to tell us just how the world sees Australia at this moment, is Assad reserved. He hosts the podcast, the angry clean energy guy, but he's also the co founder and CEO of a company that finances builds and operates renewable energy projects, right across Asia, as Assad. Thank you so much for joining us at irrational fear.Assaad W. Razzouk  21:14  lovely to be here. Thank you.Dan Ilic  21:17  That just tells how does how does the rest of the world kind of see Australia at this moment,Assaad W. Razzouk  21:22  I've been thinking about how to summarise it. And I think you know, maybe an image you can take away is the following you're at a dinner party, Australia's there, Australia has got a massive gas, indigestion, and bloating. And it's making noises that are just annoying everybody else around that dinner table. And in Australia's case, that gas is actually real. It's because of an obsession with natural gas and coal and kind of fighting lost the battle of the previous 20 years as opposed to the next 20 years. And so it's in this odd situation where it's annoying everybody, but it's kind of enough far away that you don't have to worry about it daily.Dan Ilic  22:17  I know that that kind of makes sense. But easier. And it is the animosity between, you know, our neighbours and us about how we kind of not taking any action on climate change?Assaad W. Razzouk  22:28  No, I think the best movement for change in Australia is going to be Australians themselves. It's not going to be pressure from abroad, except that the Chinese and the Japanese and the Indians eventually are going to buy a lot less gas and coal from Australia. And of course, the Australians, you know, are making a difference at a citizen level. Because if you look at that, that climate change performance in the index ranking in detail, what you see is that in renewable energy, actually, because of Australian households, and some of the Australian states are actually enthusiastic about renewables, the situation could be worse. I know it's only 54th overall out of 61 countries. But it could have been 60 years or 61st. Because it is actually 60 years sixth on climate policy. So it's literally bottom of the pack on climate policy,Dan Ilic  23:25  of course, because the United States is about to go through an epic transition and an epic pivot to actually take over the rest of that list. And probably by this time, next year, there'll be at the top of the list round the bottom. What advice do you have for Australia to kind of pick up its act?Assaad W. Razzouk  23:43  Well, on current trends next year, Australia will be together with Iran, Saudi Arabia, Kazakhstan and Russia? Yeah, bringing up the literally these four. So there is a problem with the governing party because they seemingly just don't get it. They don't want to get it they have too many friends in coal and gas. And it's quite the difficult problem. Because there's not much of a solution other than the states doing more the citizens doing more and then an election literally, you know, what else can what what else can be done if the cabinet just wouldn't do anything? And actually is moving in some ways, the wrong way by backing you know, more gas, so more bloating and for more noise? That's gonna just play out this way for a little while.Nikki Britton  24:35  It's a bad dinner party. Yeah,Unknown Speaker  24:37  not a good one.Lewis Hobba  24:39  I never I'm very down is being being lost. But yes, that would be when all those you know, sometimes it's just if you're in the running, someone needs to come last.Vidya Rajan  24:49  Yeah, Australia can Steve bradbery its way out of this one, which is a huge it'll take meAssaad W. Razzouk  24:55  I love the fact that the Australians are pissed off by and large and so You know, something will happen, because the government is not actually carrying public opinion. And you know, you're going to have massive fires again, right now. And so this is going to be even more in the consciousness. Fraser Island. I mean, I know it's got only 200 people, but it's a UNESCO World Heritage Site. And I think two thirds of it is already gone. This is this year. And so the topic is going to stay in the consciousness of everybody. And eventually something is going to have to get at a federal levelDan Ilic  25:34  when it comes to changing that federal level in terms of their policy. What do you think will be the main lever for that? What do you think will be the main reason that they will actually change their policy?Assaad W. Razzouk  25:49  They won't hold the line. Once Biden is in charge, because between the China net zero commitment, the Japanese one the South Korea one and and then the Americans on top of the EU, I think Australia will probably fall in line, reluctantly, and problematically, but probably,Dan Ilic  26:12  I don't know Assad, and we have deep carbon lobby issues in Australia week, all of a sudden, our biggest trading partner could be Russia, if we'reAssaad W. Razzouk  26:21  everybody does, you know, everybody has a deep vested interest, carbon lobby, but eventually everybody got out of those shackles. And I hope, you know, the Federal that, actually, it's not even a federal government problem. It's just a ruling party problem. You know, so it's inside there. And even within that ruling party, you know, the former prime minister is no longer with the programme.Lewis Hobba  26:45  Well, I mean, the opposition still had a problem with a member of its Party and the Labour Party, basically saying that they should stop talking about climate change. So it's not hugely heartening in Australia.Assaad W. Razzouk  26:58  It's not but unfortunately, sadly, the new fire season is going to remind everybody, and I bet you this time, the Prime Minister is not going to go on holiday and not come back. Again.Lewis Hobba  27:13  We have such short memories. I think there's nothing will change until we have an election in January.Unknown Speaker  27:18  Yeah. Yeah, that's what you want,Unknown Speaker  27:20  like one election?Lewis Hobba  27:22  Yeah, like, yeah, hunters on fire. And we have to like duck around the fires and the floods and to get one and a half to like,Nikki Britton  27:32  battle through smoke to get to the polling centre.Lewis Hobba  27:36  times for another global catastrophe, like by the time pandemic kid who'd already forgotten about the fires. And by the time the sandstorms or the locusts tear will have forgotten about the pandemic in the election at the exact right sweet spot, the Goldilocks zone or climate change.Dan Ilic  27:52  Yeah, you want to get it sometime between COVID 20 and COVID 21. That's when youLewis Hobba  27:56  want. Yeah, this is awesome. The Furious franchise movie is like, yeah, COVID still COVID.Vidya Rajan  28:05  election, sausage sizzles will be easier. Just reach out.Unknown Speaker  28:10  Yeah, not powered by gas.Dan Ilic  28:12  No. Assad, one of the one of the most impressive kind of movers on the climate change performance index is India, India is in the top 20 of those nations and you've got projects in India, what kind of changes have you seen across South Asia, when it comes to embracing climate action?Assaad W. Razzouk  28:31  India has been amazing, but so has By the way, Bangladesh, for example, look, the the political will top down is there. You have to remember that in all these countries in China, for example, as well, that the population is dying from pollution. And so the issue is very emotive, it's not some concept about climate change that's moving anything. It's actually air pollution. And the Coronavirus actually made air pollution worse, because there's been studies that basic scientific studies or last few weeks that actually showed that if you have higher pollution in this city versus that one, then the Coronavirus death rate is also higher. Right? So it's all it's all linked well, and so and so India is very serious about what they're doing. In terms of renewable energy. Bangladesh is in the process of cancelling something like 90 coal plants. The Chinese are incredibly serious as well. Everyone is getting really serious around Australia and Japan, by the way is now just joined the bandwagon. And all these are Australia's biggest markets for its fossil fuels. Right. So something as I said something is going to give otherwise, Australia, asset prices are going to changeDan Ilic  29:52  for you like what is the what's the most hopeful story you can tell us about this space? what's the what's the one thing that you kind of you know, any Your day to day operation keeps you going.Assaad W. Razzouk  30:03  Well, if you flashback to the 2008 2010, the coal capital of China, which I know very well, because we've developed some renewables projects there is called Taiwan, the city of Taiwan in Shanxi Province. I remember when I first visited, you could see the problem from call in people in the colour of people's teeth and in their skin. If you visit today, the city is 100%. Electric taxis 100%, electric buses, there is literally no more air pollution in that town. Wow. And the coal mining has really cleaned up their act on top, of course, having moved quite a bit towards renewable energy. And so frankly, if one of the poorest cities in China can do a complete turnaround, I think Australia can as well down so you know, that's, that's, I think, the lessons, there's so many heartening lessons in China and India, Bangladesh, Indonesia, the Philippines, along these lines,Dan Ilic  31:14  Assad, but we're just poor little Australia, which we've just been, we've just been like rotting off the back of a mining boom for the last 20 years. None of us have any money. We spent it all on big TVs, Assad, we can't possibly do it, Assad,Assaad W. Razzouk  31:27  the private sector is doing it in Australia. You know about that, that? The Mike cannon Brooks project, for example,Dan Ilic  31:35  he's been on this show. Yeah,Assaad W. Razzouk  31:37  yeah, of eventually building a humongously, large renewable energy power plant and exporting solar and hydrogen to Asia. And then Fortescue, the mining company, also seems to have seen the light and announced the single biggest commitment to renewable energy in the history of the world. Right. So so people are moving in Australia, and they're moving big. It's literally just the governing party, which is just the odd man outDan Ilic  32:12  aside, if you could say one thing to prevent you from getting a visa to Australia, about Australia's climate policy, what would it beAssaad W. Razzouk  32:19  to prevent me to getDan Ilic  32:24  your podcast is the angry clean energy guy, but you've been incredibly moderate on this podcast?Assaad W. Razzouk  32:30  Oh, have I? Well, well, you know, I mean, I've been moderate, frankly, because the the the governing party, the future of Australia, and the future of climate policy, is simply not in the hands of the government parties, so they can pretend what they want. I mean, it's happening with or without them. So I am, you know, angry and in some respects, but actually quite optimistic about about Australia in you know, in particular, because nobody's listening. The private sector isn't listening and the citizens aren't listening. And you've got the highest rate of household solar in the world.Lewis Hobba  33:08  Plus, we're already so shit that it won't take much to get that up.Assaad W. Razzouk  33:13  Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So as long as nobody's listening to the government, you know, we're good.Dan Ilic  33:19  Well, Assad, thank you so much for joining us on irrational fear. It's great to get a global a global perspective of where Australia sits. A big thank you to all our guests tonight, Nicky Britain Vidya Rajan Louis harbour. Have you guys got anything to plug aside? You want to plug anything? No, thank you. I'm good. Okay, great. Vidya, would you like to plug anything?Vidya Rajan  33:38  No, I mean, just follow me on Twitter. I put my sketches up there, etc, etc.Dan Ilic  33:43  Nikki Britton? Have you got shows coming up?Nikki Britton  33:45  Um, I've actually written a Christmas pantomime. That's happening in Sydney next week at giant Wharf on Wednesday, the 16th. Right, it's called Christmas is cancelled. Yeah. And it's all about Santa being a cyst straight. Why? by a certain age, which is really getting everything wrong and not being very woke. But it's actually very irreverent, super fun. And it's raising money for performers and others who have had a really tough year.Dan Ilic  34:15  Oh, that is brilliant. Louis, do you have anything to plug this week?Lewis Hobba  34:19  No, that sounds much nicer go to Nikki thing.Dan Ilic  34:21  Yeah. JOHN Doerr. Next Thursday, a big thank you to rode mics, the Bertha foundation go neutral. Our wonderful Patreon supporters, Debbie bluestein. Adds Gabby bolt, Robbie McGregor, Jacob brown on the tepanyaki timeline. Usually I'd say next week. There's something to be scared of Good night, but hang around, because I'll leave you with Gabby bolts sultry Red Rooster theme, which was too good to not play on. It's on. Here it is here. We didn't know if we'd have to use it or not. So I kind of used a little bit of it.Unknown Speaker  34:49  Let me play. There we go.Unknown Speaker  34:51  Do you remember some days when your mom stopped? You could smell the sweet Do I remember how I used to think that Chuck was worth the way IUnknown Speaker  35:09  read Bruce? So they cook it right to make it Sunday every day.Unknown Speaker  35:20  Are you ready? Are you ready? ThisUnknown Speaker  35:24  chicken is ready. Are youUnknown Speaker  35:30  ready for this chicken? Are you ready? Are you ready?Dan Ilic  35:48  Big Thank you. Debbie bolt has just put a call in on the Facebook stream. I can't believe you're playing this right now. Thanks for a great Oh Yeah, me too. I'm gonna go get myself a flavour wrap. Thanks, everyone. Thanks for a great show.Transcribed by https://otter.aiA Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🌳 If you want to support the podcast and take your car carbon neutral, with GoNeutral here: http://bit.ly/GoNeutral This week's show we cover Foxtel going offshore, Australia and China's meme warfare, Rudy Giuliani's crack legal team in Michigan and we interview two blokes who invaded the cricket pitch at the Australia vs India test match at the SCG.Fearmongers this week:Cathy Wilcox  (SMH)Tosh Greenslade (Mad As Hell / The ScoMo Diaries )Lewis Hobba (Triple J)Dan Ilic (A Rational Fear)TRANSCRIPTION FROM OTTER.AI Unknown Speaker  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by the birth of foundation.Unknown Speaker  0:04  Gay Lewis.Lewis Hobba  0:05  Hello, Daniel. HowDan Ilic  0:07  I look I'm well I'm feeling pretty good because we've got a whole bunch of new Patreon supporters including Maureen Morgan from the stand up school of hard knocks, they do. They teach people how to do stand up, Louis, that's what they do. We've also got someone called C 316801. For they've become the Patreon supporter.Lewis Hobba  0:27  I'm giving away being funded by Russian bots.Dan Ilic  0:30  I think we're actually being funded by Elon Musk's daughter, I think Alex Thornton has also signed up Dylan Joel has signed up, Laura wells has signed up and a guy called Jared Morris now I'm pretty sure I know this blog when I was in LA I was when I first moved to LA in 2016. I was quite lonely. And I went to a bar just to go try out some really nice food because that's what you do when you're on your own. And the barman was jerem he was an Aussie guy and he recognised from the telly and he gave me a free whiskey. So thank you Jeremy, for joining up and giving to you. Jeremy is the bomb in the cape serving. It's fantastic.Lewis Hobba  1:07  That's amazing.Dan Ilic  1:08  Another way to support irrational fear is to offset the carbon emissions with your car with a go neutral sticker for every $90 sticker go neutral by 3.5 tonnes of carbon offsets which is about the yearly average emissions for a car and then five bucks that comes to us to do that. To Go Go neutral and support irrational feet use the link in the show notes. Louis I'm recording my end of irrational feet on gadigal land whatLewis Hobba  1:30  land Do you want also on gadigal landDan Ilic  1:32  your nation, sovereignty was never said we need a treaty. Let's start the show.Unknown Speaker  1:36  A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks cambro and gum and section 40 of a rational fear recommended listening by immature audience.Dan Ilic  1:49  Tonight after monster speculating the opposite US Attorney General bill Barr finds no evidence of voter fraud but finally finds evidence of a backbone and Prime Minister Scott Morrison hits back at full corners parliamentary sex scandal episode with a new initiative called knob keeper and gatherings of 50 people are now allowed on dance floors in New South Wales critics say this will just lead to an increase in murder on the dance floor. It's the fourth of December 2020 and we're holding the vaccine This is irrational fear.Hello, welcome to rational fit. I'm your host former quarantine housekeeper Dan Ilic. Let's meet our fear mongers for tonight. She's one of the sharpest with featured daily and nines newspapers. She's also the newly elected President of the Australian cartoonists Association. Please stop the votes because it's the Walkley award winning Kathy Wilcox. Oh, sure. Do we have to call you madam? President now?Cathy Wilcox  3:00  Yeah. Only only Madam President. Mrs. President is all right to Boss Lady.Lewis Hobba  3:06  What are some of the roles of the president of the of your new your new position?Cathy Wilcox  3:13  I really don't know. I'm gonna have a minute all that. I suddenly I suddenly had to run the meeting the annual general meeting on Sunday morning, which was a frightening thing to have to do. I initially sort of said, can't the old President still run it? And he kind of said yes, but then, but then I kind of got a whiff of power and my my nostrils went Oh, what the hell I'll take over, rush themDan Ilic  3:36  cafe crush them you would a little pencil.Lewis Hobba  3:39  I like to imagine that everyone. on the board meeting of the cartoonists associate. There's like 10 people and then there's 10 caricaturists on the outside at each one.Dan Ilic  3:50  And as well as being one of the longest serving comedy minions for Sean McAuliffe. He's also an author of one of the funniest books to start your Christmas stocking from the actor award winning mad as hell. It's touchscreen slide. Hello. Hi. Hello, touch someone.Lewis Hobba  4:05  Congratulations. Yeah, wellDan Ilic  4:07  done Tosh. Getting an actor. That's great. Yeah. Yeah, thanks. I had a baby a month ago, but you know thatUnknown Speaker  4:18  you got an act.Lewis Hobba  4:19  Everyone's got babies. Is your baby in the business? We don't care. Not yet.Dan Ilic  4:24  Is it time to exploit? Isn't it time to exploit your baby to be in the business? Let's hope so. Cuz on my career certainly isn't doing much.Cathy Wilcox  4:33  And you you appear to be recording from from inside a cupboard. Is that correct? Yeah,Tosh Greenslade  4:37  I'm inside of my wardrobe.Dan Ilic  4:39  I had to put so I had to put this This isn't good. Good podcasting, but I had to put this shirt down off the hook just in case anybody saw because I've got toUnknown Speaker  4:51  have the same shirt.Lewis Hobba  4:53  held up an identical shirt, the one he's wearing and it's a surprisingly loud, Nike sort of tie dye.Unknown Speaker  5:00  stravaganzaCathy Wilcox  5:01  I liked it so much. You bought it twice. That's amazing. IUnknown Speaker  5:04  bought it too big.Unknown Speaker  5:05  I bought too big for the first time it was like it Look, I'm fat that's notCathy Wilcox  5:10  yours. You're pregnant pregnant body and then you'll have one for afterwards when you snapped back to your post baby body.Dan Ilic  5:17  Tim Chima on YouTube says is that from the shag shop on chapel Street. It's a very Melbourne reference. And you've met him before. It's Louis harbour. Welcome, Louis.Lewis Hobba  5:27  Oh, Hello, sir. I forgot we're still doing introductions. Yeah. Hello. with you. Sorry, I couldn't be with you last week. But yeah, huge congratulations on being the officially funniest podcasts in Australia. Damn. Well, it is great.Dan Ilic  5:39  It's all of all of us as everyone who contributes so thank you. Coming up we speak to two people who are bringing back a much love Ozzy tradition, the cricket pitch invasion. We asked them if they didn't note and if they turn but their bowls, but before we get there, here's a message from this week's sponsor.Unknown Speaker  5:56  toit denied What do you mean I can't say the Joe Biden style the election by using North Korean fishermen sick of having your free speech trampled on trying to be anti semitic but that pro semantics semantics have got you down. You said it's censored by the political correctness Nazis for being too much of an actual Nazi. Exactly. Well, it's time to drop the fact checking fascist on Facebook and time to cut the truth telling Trump's Twitter introducing a place where you can say what you like when you like with people you're like, with no fear of coming across as wrong or batshit crazy because they're just like you it's haha the social media network by right wing nutjobs and conspiracy theorists Paula, a place where no Lives Matter and masks will give you COVID-19 and Donald Trump Jr. is the second coming up. Donald Trump theUnknown Speaker  6:42  media runs right away Russian disinformation wowUnknown Speaker  6:45  Can I say the moon landing was fine. Can I say COVID-19 was started by Bill Gates I would be forced to instal microsoft excel in our brains if that's what you believe. Can I say that? Would on Tuesday did a weird thing and that's why I'm not on this podcast. But you can on Paula, if it's wrong, awful unlikely to start a race riot. You can say it on Paula. Paula, where every day is opposite day and opposite day is not opposite day.Dan Ilic  7:18  Alright, let's get stuck into the fears first fear. foxtel is now a foreign broadcaster. According to Michael West in June newscorp saltbox tell to a news, another News Corp company and then sold it to another news called company and then sold it to another News Corp company based somewhere in Delaware, USA. foxtel is just like this tiny babushka doll in the middle of an American Fox called news Empire. It's like, like all babushka dolls as well. It's now foreign, opaque and spreads propaganda. What's interesting here is that a few months ago, the federal government had a $10 million no strings attached to foxtel. I assume that was spent on moving fees. Do you know how much it costs to ship 36 years of Simpsons tapes to another country, let alone, let alone You know, a state that has no corporate tax fee amongest shouldn't be concerned that foxtel is now an entirely foreign owned entity. Louis.Lewis Hobba  8:11  I mean, I cannot believe foxtail still exists is a truly staggering, I tried. I was one of the many people I think who you have flashes. I think during Game of Thrones, I was going through a particularly, you know like, I don't want to be a pirate, which I think is still true. As I you know what? Yeah, sure. I'll buy foxtel whatever. And then I it was so expensive. I was buying a box set of Spock of Game of Thrones each week. And then I'm like, well, that's fine. I'll get the other things and admittedly what they're like two or three good HBO shows. You get through those? Yeah, like what am I doing here? It's four times more expensive than anything else. You know where your money's going. It's going into, like foxtel It's heartbreaking. It is so wide. What does it offer currently, and it knows it too, which I guess is why it's just trying to like get as many freebies before at Fox offDan Ilic  9:03  it totally Crikey has actually kind of done the numbers here. they reckon over since 2017. Fox has received $67 million dollars from the federal government. And considering that you know, it was once a billion dollar company that never pay tax. Should we be asking more folks Oh, have they become by default? Our third public broadcaster KathyCathy Wilcox  9:23  I can't even believe that they kind of weren't already foreign anyway because they're they are effectively foreign because because Murdoch is foreign now. Isn't he? Like he he gave up being an Australian didn't he?Dan Ilic  9:35  Yeah, he did. And he he so he registered to be in he did registered as a citizen of Delaware that's where he that's why he's technically a citizen what wayCathy Wilcox  9:44  in what way was foxhill ever ever Australian except you know, except Well, we know it would just import you know American American right wing politics and and do it this their way and so they just, they just sort of getting it back. But they do seem to be able to pocket quite a lot of cash on the way especially, as you say all these handouts plus plus note no taxes paid. So, I mean, if they would go to America and then stay there, and and not come back here, that would be quite a good way ofDan Ilic  10:14  doing it. To be to be fair to foxtel. I used to work about eight or nine years ago, I used to work in the foxtel call centre. Yeah, I used to work in the retention department. People would ring me up every day, noUnknown Speaker  10:26  way,Dan Ilic  10:27  I would say, and we say to me, foxtail is too expensive. It's not very good. It's full of ads. Why am I paying so much for foxtail? And I would say, Would you want foxtail? If I could cut the price in half? And they would say yes. And then if I could get a lot of people to do that, I would get a commission for that, which would beUnknown Speaker  10:45  Oh, it isDan Ilic  10:47  sort of capped out at about 20 $500 extra a week on top of my base wage. can't expect them to be spending that much money on people like me and discounts and also pay tax. It's not fair. Tosh. How much in like, comparatively, how much more did you earn as a foxtel employee than you do working for Sean McAuliffe? Well, I work for the ABC. We actually we don't get paid in money. The dry biscuits that I get as payment if I sort of converted them to dollars foxtel definitely wins.Lewis Hobba  11:18  I wonder if since Fox so when it was in Australia, screened predominantly American comm shows now that it's in Delaware, maybe it will screen predominantly Australian show like maybe Delaware will we'll be seeing that going? Why are you doing reruns of neighbours. We have great Delaware programmes right here.Dan Ilic  11:38  Yeah, and the maybe Australian artists who need to make it in America can just make it in foxtel. And we can celebrate them like we did with Andy Donner the other week getting on there. You're like, Oh,Lewis Hobba  11:48  I thanks to Fox so I made it big in LA you made it big in LA Yeah, del la. La.Unknown Speaker  11:59  This is a rational view.Dan Ilic  12:02  Let's move on to this week. Second fear Australia is at war with China over a meme on Twitter. When a low ranking Chinese official tweeted a photoshopped image of an Australian soldier committing violence against an Afghan child it caused the Australian Government to respond very quickly by denouncing the image publicly on Scott Morrison's WeChat. Not since Greg heartlands today FBI investigation after his Twitter account likes to tweet by BB w comm pumper 69 has the Australian Government taking action from a tweet so quickly? Incidentally, the way chat posts from Scott Morrison's account in return was pulled off the social media app because you violated way chats. Terms of Service WeChat said the post involved use the use of words pictures and videos that would incite mislead and confuse the public. We commonly know this in Australia as a Scott Morrison press conference. Fear mongers Is it time we bit the bullet and started a new division of the army solely focused on names. I like I like that in this situation. China is essentially the new Charlie Hebdo. Australia, Australia are the bad guys in this situation. We're the ones that have done the war crime. It was a meme about war crimes. We've done the war crimes. Our report said that we did the war crimes. And then they published a meme about it. And we asked for an apology. It is I think that hypocrisy is pretty strange. Kathy, you've got a different take on this.Cathy Wilcox  13:31  I will look there, there's quite a few elements of hypocrisy going on here. So for one thing, it was on it was on a tweet, Chinese citizens don't get to tweet, they don't get to put anything any old thing out. For another thing. It was supposedly a cat cartoon by a Chinese artist. And, and and in some of the coverage that artists you know, strongly held feelings about Australia and and our and our, our abominations in Afghanistan, you know, and needing to have, you know, do due consideration and and that's just his independent statement there that happened to be picked up by this I love the way you everybody says low ranking official that's gonna be rubbing into that low ranking official Hello ranking here. But look, if that artist were wanting to say something about let's say Chinese treatment of wiggers in in you know, in their camps and or whether tenement Square was covered up or you know, any number of other things what whatever was going on in Hong Kong, if that artist had wanted to do something about that, from within China, there would not be there would not be a cartoon, there would not be an image to see because that that image would not be able to come out so so this this image is only able to come out because it is a pro Cut Pro CCP line. That's the first thing or the second thing and and you know and then two Compare it to Charlie Hebdo, as some people have been saying, oh, how hypocritical of Australia wanting to suppress that, that cartoon when when they would have been no, just we Charlie and all the rest of it and wanting to have the the the Charlie Hebdo cartoons, you know, free and published. I don't think there is any equivalence to saying, we find this offensive like, okay, I disagree that, you know, calling for to have it taken down is useless. And that was no, no, there was no point in doing that on the part of Scott Morrison, but to say that you're offended by it is not the same as marching into the offices of a publication and gunning down the cartoonists? You know, it's just, yes, it's perfectly alright to be offended by something. It's all right to say that you're offended by something that doesn't stop the free speech. But there's no free speech in China anyway. So. So I just think that we've we've Suddenly, I think we we kind of reflexively turn on ourselves and assume that any kind of thing we might say against, you know, another country in another another regime is going to be, that's going to be racist of us to say that this is not about race. This is about the totalitarian regime that controls the message that does not have free speech. And that is currently playing us and playing Scott Morrison, like a bloody, you know, Stradivarius, and this was a this was just a, you know, this was a total, send out that send out the hook. And unfortunately, Morrison took the bait and was, you know, real real right in? So um, anyway, I think that I think that there is no, there's no argument to be had about free speech here, because there is not at all about free speech, and also to the people who say, We care more about being offended by a meme than we do about what happened in Afghanistan. Sorry. But the last couple of weeks, we've been talking about what happened in Afghanistan, that it has gotten a lot of coverage has got an awful lot of cartoons done about it by myself, as well, as, you know, many of my, my colleagues and and many, and many people in in, you know, high places and journalists, we've been saying, you know, plenty about that. And it is it is coming out because there has been an inquiry in this and there are going to be consequences, we hope.Lewis Hobba  17:13  But no one is saying that journalists haven't been signing up. I think that the goaling pot was was the fact that this is coming from Scott Morrison. I mean, I think that the division of response from him, was what people were saying was was insane. You're like, yeah, this guy won't, won't be strong against the armed forces, because it's a political minefield. But he's very happy to defend a fairly minor tweet from an irrelevant person. Yeah, it was pretty bizarre. IDan Ilic  17:41  think that it's that the diplomatic incident is come is stemming not from their human rights abuses, but from the fact that they made fun of our war crimes. That's that's where we draw the line. It's like, Whoa, stop. And I think it's it's interesting that it sort of seems to be coming after the the trade sanctions have started to kick in. That's when we start to get shirty with them now that there's not a lot of money flowing into our country from them, we can start to go Whoa, what are you doing there?Unknown Speaker  18:09  Stop that you need to say you need to say sorry, to us. Whereas if if there were no trade sanctions, I feel like that that tweet would have gone under the radar. That would have been a I've had a private conversation with with President GE, instead ofDan Ilic  18:23  you need to apologise publicly. Well, ICathy Wilcox  18:25  suppose the the trade sanctions as they've been, you know, progressively happening and all the various other little sort of warnings about how how they're unhappy about 14 things that we've done or something like that. But you know, one after another trade sanctionsDan Ilic  18:37  Yeah, I believe it's the essays called 14 things I heard about you. That's what?Cathy Wilcox  18:43  Yeah, so and that was as, as they were sort of becoming a little bit more desperate, and more and more desperate in trying to sort of sound like, oh, but we still want to be friends, you know, Oh, yes. They're unhappy about this, oh, we don't want to read too much into the fact that they don't want to Bali or they're, you know, putting slapping tariffs on the wine and stuff. And, and it's true that this that this meme is the point at which everybody goes, Oh, oh, so that's what they feel about us. Okay. Feels like it feels like we've we've finally understood that he's really not that into you, you know, after trying to see the nice side.Dan Ilic  19:24  Yes, it's so funny how they just don't care as well. They don't really care about this base, because, you know, they're China. They're the biggest economy in the world, and the kid in primary school with behavioural issues, who would not take his tablet and he'd be a bit naughty. And then the teacher would be like, come up to the front of the class and and say, Sorry, and instead he would just like whip his balls out and then climb up on the roof. Do not give a shit because they could destroy the planet. The days of Donald Trump are coming to an end. A rationalUnknown Speaker  19:55  friend of mine who's very smart said you've probably you've probably been investing More than anybody else makes you probably the cleanest person in this countryDan Ilic  20:05  in US elections news now, it's been a month since the US election. And I don't know about you, but I am so thankful I no longer have to listen to us politics podcasts. So I know Well, I felt like I had to up until the election, but now I feel like I don't have to do that. No, no, no,Lewis Hobba  20:22  no one was saving like, guys. We need elections is gonna be won or lost on danila.Dan Ilic  20:30  Well, one person who did care was Donald Trump, and he still is he still he really hasn't let it go, Louis, I don't know if you know, this event, Dano is still fighting the system claiming electoral fraud, fraud. And he's got these number one guy on the case, the high flying lawyer slash penguin from the Batman franchise, Rudy Giuliani and his team of hotshot lawyers have headed to the Michigan State Legislature to argue the case for voter fraud. Now, I've got a couple of clips here. I want to play them for you. The first one can be a hang on a sec. For folks who haven't played this before. If you want me to stop the clip, I just say Hang on a sec, if you want to chime in. So this is one of Rudy Giuliani's hotshot lawyers. And maybe she could be I don't know, a little bit drunk.Unknown Speaker  21:13  The code, the pullback, the pull book is completely off. completely off on that. I'd say that poll book is off by over 100,000. That poll book, why don't you look at the registered voters on there? How many registered voters are on there? Did you do you even know the answer to that?Unknown Speaker  21:35  No, I guess I'm trying to get to the buyer out here.Unknown Speaker  21:37  00.Unknown Speaker  21:39  So my question then, is if yes,Unknown Speaker  21:43  how many Wait, what about what about? What about the turnout rate? 120%.Dan Ilic  21:51  Yeah, cafe.Cathy Wilcox  21:53  So it's so it's Giuliani who's actually going now Hang on, man. He's trying to real real hurry. He's like leaning over to go. You know, you're actually not coming across the same.Dan Ilic  22:08  Giuliani Giuliani is pulling, he's pulling the move in the pub where you go, Oh, come on, man. Come on, come on, and you put your hand, you put your hand on your friend's back just to be like, I'm here. You need to be grounded right now. You'll have very, very drunk. Representative Johnson ask us a question.Unknown Speaker  22:24  So the poll book number I get there's two things that could happen here. Either the poll book number, if ballots are counted multiple, multiple times, there's two options. Option number one is that the poll book numbers are not going to match. They don't the actual not by thousands and thousands of votes that we see right now.Unknown Speaker  22:44  You take them up again, take a look again,Unknown Speaker  22:46  option number two is that they essentially were we're filling in names of people who didn't vote that people too. So is thatUnknown Speaker  22:54  Johnson asked his question, and thenUnknown Speaker  22:58  my question is, Why 30,000? That's nothing.Unknown Speaker  23:03  What did you guys do take and do something crazy to it?Lewis Hobba  23:10  Oh, it's so hard to like, get a sense of what just happened if you just don't an audio only medium. But imagine someone who is losing an argument but thinks they're winning. And they get their arms across, and their chin goes up. And then right after they finish their sentence, their eyebrows, do a single pump. That's what it looks like. When someone is so wrong, that you don't know how to correct them. And they it's a beautiful thing to behold.Dan Ilic  23:41  And then when you hear other people laughing in the background doing this, this person has no clue what she's talking about. or she might be a few drinks inLewis Hobba  23:51  Rudy Giuliani just met her at a bar like an hour ago. Yeah.Unknown Speaker  23:56  Let me go. Let me go. Let's go her she'sUnknown Speaker  24:04  shady. And Rudy. I'm going aheadUnknown Speaker  24:08  30,000 votes, so I know what they're feeling.Unknown Speaker  24:12  I know what I saw. And I signed something saying that if I'm wrong, I can go to prison. Did you?Unknown Speaker  24:20  Okay, well.Unknown Speaker  24:22  This thisDan Ilic  24:24  is just Jessie Sure. At this point, like this is just an MTV reality show. It seems like they've scripted that to be an MTV reality show. That's real housewives, realLewis Hobba  24:34  lawyers of Trump, I would watch.Dan Ilic  24:36  I would watch that until I die. That's exactly what we're watching. Right. So anyway, so I've got a second clip. I'm gonna play it for you in for now, it's important that you have your headphones on and you're listening very carefully to this well considered argument from Rudy Giuliani.Unknown Speaker  24:51  The point of order, the answer that I gave you is they didn't bother to interview a single witness, just like you. They don't want to know the truth. Well, you probably We know the truth. Did you guysDan Ilic  25:07  squeezes out of fog mid sentence? And he's our counsel looks at him like he just fired during a congressional hearing. Then she then she smells it at the end she clearly smells him and goes, yep, he didCathy Wilcox  25:23  was one of his more compelling arguments.Dan Ilic  25:29  I think the Michigan they should be wearing masks on their face and their ass as well. All right, let me play it again here because it's so good.Unknown Speaker  25:37  The point of order, the answer that I gave you is they didn't bother to interview a single witness, just like you. They don't want to know the truth.Lewis Hobba  25:50  The smirk on his co counsels face and she just hands up by going, Oh, man, that guy.Unknown Speaker  25:58  And why should we not believe the reported attempts of you to try to seek a pardon from PresidentUnknown Speaker  26:03  I will ask that he be he be disciplined for that.Dan Ilic  26:07  Joining us now to blacks who are taking matters into their own hands when it comes to bringing back the great Ozzy tradition that has been missing from our cricket games, the pitch invasion, except that rather than doing it nude for their mates, our next guest did it clothed in the name of keeping fossil fuels in the ground. Ben burdette and Joshua Weinstock ran into the field last weekend during the india vs. Australia game and then join us now on irrational fear. Welcome, Ben and Josh. Hello.Ben  26:34  Hi, guys. Hi, Dan. Thanks for having us on.Dan Ilic  26:36  Oh, no, it's great. It's great. It's great to have you guys here. It's really great to have you guys here. Yeah. So tell us, why didn't you do it nude?Unknown Speaker  26:43  Oh,Josh  26:44  we kind of we got on there. And we looked around and we thought, would we be more popular if we had done it knew? Like, we kind of thought, you know, maybe maybe we would be serving the tradition. But basically, we had no interest in being charged with indecent conduct.Dan Ilic  27:01  You can only get charged for one thing at a time. Tell us tell us why they hit you. You ran onto the field with a specific reason. Tell us why did you do that. And soBen  27:08  what happened last week is all of a sudden the State Bank of India read its head again about and was making noises about maybe like learning the $1 billion that Dan is seeking to get the coal mine underway. In any way the planets all aligned. And there was this cricket match. And in the call went out for a couple of people silly enough to run out on the field to do this job. The call whoUnknown Speaker  27:34  calls you who calls my job?Lewis Hobba  27:39  is really not take any gig I can get? Oh, it's a fine, I'll be fine. I'll still take it.Dan Ilic  27:48  You know, tell us about the fight? I mean, you do get fined for doing stuff like that. Right? How much did you get fined? And how did? How did you pay it?Ben  27:55  We're not entirely sure yet. It's still in the post?Josh  27:57  We will find out. We'll find that out in court.Ben  28:00  I got told five G's.Josh  28:02  I got told a few hundred, which could be them trying different psychological tactics on us or it could be them being confused. But we'll find out in court.Dan Ilic  28:10  I think it is about $5,000. Yeah. Have you got a plan in place to try and get that tight?Ben  28:16  Yeah, well, we've got to go to court. So hopefully that will get diminished quite a long way. And then we'll we'll see how that goes.Cathy Wilcox  28:22  Invest in renewables, they'll they'll have a good return payoff, you find.Ben  28:27  Exactly, exactly. I mean, at the end of the day, the story went very well in India with 1.3 5 billion people watching the cricket pretty much so you know, as good as his irrational fear is, you know, it's very successful podcast. You know, Josh and I are arguably the most famous people here this week.Dan Ilic  28:47  Well, I can tell you now by looking at the stream, we've got 12 people watching the stream right now. So yes, slightly more, slightly more famous, then pay for?Ben  28:58  Yeah, speak to stuff and Danny, they can help with your marketing.Lewis Hobba  29:01  Have you have you? Because I know some of the reception from maybe non politically minded cricket enthusiasts was a lot more negative. Have you received a lot of that feedback personally?Josh  29:13  No, I'm, I mean, in fact, like the reception we got on the day for one, we got some Indian cricket supporters afterwards who came up to us like we were celebrities, they got plenty of selfies with us. And our signs. On the pitch, like when we got out there. The crowd seemed kind of confused. They ended up booing, because like, but the first 30 seconds, we got some good applause.Dan Ilic  29:36  I don't know. Actually, I fought much cricket before and I would be thankful for the interruption.Ben  29:44  The funny thing is none of us really knew much about cricket. Like we sort of want to build a little bit but fortunately, Josh is dead. Brief this not whatever you do, don't stand on the pitch. So I followed that advice. And actually, there was a common there was a comment made by a lady A two GB commentator that actually said oh, well, at least I didn't stand on the hip. So I'd take that as a positive.Dan Ilic  30:08  I've actually got one of the news stories up from YouTube, which one of the Indian news stories and it's so funny like listening and reading some of these comments from Indian people, and people in India with you. And it's it's quite surprising, like Indians hate Adani as much as people do. It's pretty great. Like, fully support your brother hope you drive this crooked businessman out of your country. We need such enthusiasms from Indians as well. I'm Indian, but I suggest you guys don't let a Danny into Australia, good citizens showing their responsibility for the future generation. If we send our political leaders there, they will divide Australia into religious grounds and weaken the real issue. These these are seriously engaged Indian. So also, Danny, this is amazing.Lewis Hobba  30:53  We need to send you to Delaware with a stop foxtail t shirt.Unknown Speaker  30:57  I will do it.Unknown Speaker  30:58  We'll do it. Yeah.Ben  31:00  We do it for the T shirts. And so yeah, I mean that that was that was kind of our objective was just to highlight this with the Indian people because the Indian people have a great history of social uprising. And yeah, we live by Gandhi, of course. So you know, now that they know about this, I don't think there'll be they'll be putting up with it.Dan Ilic  31:21  I love this comment from Peter Lola on our Twitter feed. He says it should only be $500. If you don't touch the pitch, I think better. As opposed to $5,000. As long asLewis Hobba  31:31  you don't sandpaper, the bowl, you should be fine.Dan Ilic  31:35  This was much part of a much larger action. There were other people at the grounds also protesting with you there were people leading chants in Hindi at the front of the grounds. It did it did that kind of stuff get a good reaction from Indians and Australians walking into the ground.Josh  31:50  We've been told it did. They had a they had a big prop. wicket up the back that people could throw a ball that would like Donnie written all over it and who doesn't like throwing a ball at a big prop. Apparently, they got a lot of good responses from outside. A lot of people who had great fun though, and they actually there was that and then people turned up to the FBI offices earlier in the day. So it was a whole thing.Dan Ilic  32:12  All right, excellent. Now tell us like tell us the nitty gritty of deciding when to go out. How do you pick your moment to invade the pitch? Yeah,Ben  32:21  we wanted to do it in the first moments. It was the first few overs and you know, the the anxiety had been on since you know quarter to four in the morning for me. So just to get it out of the way was very good. We knew we had to be thatDan Ilic  32:39  you had like Dutch courage. You say you had like a half strength SCG beer. Yeah, yeah, exactly.Josh  32:47  What a full strength.Ben  32:49  And yeah, we went up to the top and to pretend we're going to the shop. We took a hamburger box props and we're staying there for a little bit and then lady was trying to move us on and then there are some Indian cricket fans at sorry, our placards which which were actually fake ones covering up our real placards.Josh  33:05  Let's go Aussie.Ben  33:06  Let's go. Yeah. And so we got, we got selfies with those guys. And then then all of a sudden yo try and concentrate on when when there was a break in the overs, and that's when it was go timeJosh  33:17  trying to figure out where the cricket was at. Okay, so it was at the fifth bowl. Was that the six ball? What's going on? Yeah,Unknown Speaker  33:23  how does this work again? Yeah.Lewis Hobba  33:25  How did it end? How did you did you get tackled? Did you get to Did you discuss how far you would take it? Did you take a knee? Did you did you give up?Josh  33:33  And the short answer is it ended eventually. We were We were so prepared to kind of rip off our disguises and run out there before security tackled us down. It took such a long time for them to get out there. I was out there. I done I done my route. I was standing there with the sign of my head. It got to the point where I was thinking we just going to have to walk ourselves. Like does anyone does anyone mind us beingDan Ilic  34:01  if anyone saw the the footage of this? I'll chuck it in the show notes. But the security guards were a little on the look. Let's face it that we've all been we've all been a few kilos during lockdown. They just looked like it hadn't been been a proper security guide for a long time.Lewis Hobba  34:17  Taken sort of a parent parenting a toddler approach to like strangers with it. It's like look, if we chase them, they're gonna keep runningDan Ilic  34:30  slowly and take them traits.Josh  34:33  If we kept running there could have taken forever.Dan Ilic  34:35  Yeah, exactly. It How did it feel when you hit the centre of the ground? What did that feel like? centre, the scj knowing all the cameras are on you knowing that you're beaming out to a billion people in India.Ben  34:45  Yeah, the monkey was off our back the main the main fear I had was just not not pulling it off. So we're just pleased to be out there Really? Yeah. And yeah, that wasLewis Hobba  34:57  like that. It just felt like you were giving us a place Match speech. just happy to be out there.Unknown Speaker  35:05  credit to Matt Canavan, but I think we're better man on theCathy Wilcox  35:09  right. Check it just taking one protest at a time.Josh  35:15  Yeah, all thatBen  35:16  you might not have picked up was you Josh and I both cop the longest wages all the way back into the into the into the sales in the stadium and the stadium has sales just for those who are interested. And glad to see if you're listening. You get get some better decorators on the new ones because it's a bitDan Ilic  35:37  strange. Block walls. Ben and Josh, thank you so much for joining us on rational fit. Thanks, guys. Thanks. AndBen  35:44  now your follow stopper Danny.Dan Ilic  35:46  Yeah, we'll do it now. Tosh, you've written a book, The scomo diaries. Tell us a little bit about that book. So it's basically just a as a book of roasts, really, it's just a ripping on the government. But it's a comic retelling of Scott Morrison's first 18 months as prime minister, illustrated by Andrew Weldon. So he's done some amazing stuff in there. It really is just me ripping the government and everybody in it for a solid 250 pages. It's a really quite a good raid, though. I did mention to you earlier, I found it quite depressing, because I was just reliving that year and like reliving the year and it was it's accurate. It's accurate to the date. How did you actually write it? Did you actually write a joke every day as something was happening in the news cycle? No, no. So I just went back like it's all just there on the news websites. It's all archived forever until the internet stops and electricity stops after the fall of man. But the the it was so easy to write because it was just you googled the date and his name, or you Google the date and Australian Parliament. And it just gave you the entire day's happenings basically. And then I just made jokes about it. The book is called the scomo diaries. And we've actually reached out to the PMO to see if Scott Morrison would read us out of chapter. He sent us a response but he sent it on WeChat and it's been pulled down. rate so instead Rupert Degas who does all of our rates for us, did us a version here we go. Have a listen to this.Unknown Speaker  37:14  Ninth of may 2019. A little quote I read from Kristina Keneally today, Peter Dutton has been led out of his cave. He's been kept underground somewhere by the liberal National Party. Now first of all, Peter doesn't live in a cave. He lives in a sort of nest, Mike from rotting pieces of meat. These kinds of lies are typical of labour. I do however, quite like the idea of keeping Peter underground. I'm looking into the legality of it after the election, although we might need to be careful about how we do it. Given the tendency of potatoes to multiply when buried.Dan Ilic  37:56  Beautiful staff Tosh discovered ours is at Tao cafe.Cathy Wilcox  38:01  I was wanting to know if if Tosh is the author of the tweets of Scott Morrison.Dan Ilic  38:07  No, no, I've had that account on mute on mute since I started writing it because I didn't want any of that to sort of seep into my brain and accidentally rip it all off. So I don't know who that is. But they unfollowed me when I announced I was writing the books I think they don't like me but then I said that they unfollowed me and they re followed me. That is it for rational fear. Big thanks to Ben and Josh Kathy Wilcox toss green Slade and Lewis hapa if you got anything to plug KathyCathy Wilcox  38:32  please don't buy any more of my tea towels. I had a whole bunch of orders in the last couple of weeks when I had a bit of publicity and I'm just drowning under orders and I'm not going to be able to get them all up by Christmas and I don't know how how to tell people that so so you know if you've got any ideas about how to how to let customers downDan Ilic  38:50  let me know I will put this video out and we'll tweet it out and then you can read it in the read nice passive aggressive way oh you just put on weightLewis Hobba  38:58  definitely the most self sabotaging plug we've had on the podcast everUnknown Speaker  39:07  Yeah, yeahLewis Hobba  39:09  turn me off on Follow me.Dan Ilic  39:12  Louis tuna plug anything anything at all doesn't have to be anything you're involvedLewis Hobba  39:16  with? No, you can follow me on on social media and send me messages that I may or may not respond toDan Ilic  39:22  Ben and Joshua in a blog anything before you go.Ben  39:24  I will wait we were actually part of extinction rebellion as well. And we've got a festival of love and rage coming up on the 19th of December so check them out on Facebook.Josh  39:32  Come to that all the grey phone.Dan Ilic  39:34  Excellent. big thank you to red marks the birth of foundation go neutral. Our Patreon supporters David bluestein Killian David Rubin Degas Jacob brown on the tabernacle timeline. Discord server has been going off this week. Big thanks to the Peters Phil ads COVID kisah and Maddie Palmer and all the contributions from the discord team. Until next week, there's always somebody scared. I was good night.Transcribed by https://otter.ai A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🌳 If you want to support the podcast and take your car carbon neutral, with GoNeutral here: http://bit.ly/GoNeutral We have some old friends of the show and someone new. Chris Taylor (The Chaser) Alice Fraser (The Last Post) And Imaan Frank Hadchiti joins the podcast. Qantas's vaccinations, The Magna Carta people of the UK, and Turkey Pardoning in the USA. We unfortunately didn't connect to our guest interview Michael West on the crumbling of the Murdoch Empire, we assume he was assassinated mid-podcast by John Barilaro. BIG NEWSWe won the Best Comedy Podcast at the Australian Podcast Awards. Beating out such luminaries as Hamish and Andy and Tony Martin's Sizzle Town.  I trust that last year's winners Tony Martin and his producer Matt Dower will take the Australian Podcast Awards finding with good grace, and will proceed with a peaceful transition of power.  It's what makes the Australian Podcast Awards great, we may differ on what we think is ‘humour,' but we can all agree farts are always funny.Last Chance to Add Your Submission to the submit something to the House Standing Committee on the Environment and Energy.Today (Friday 27th) at 5pm is the cut off time for submissions to the House Standing Committee on the Environment and Energy. Use GetUp!'s very simple form here to fill out a couple of paragraphs about why you believe fossil fuels should stay in the ground and how electrifying industry is going to make the world a better place. https://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/climate-justice/climate-change-bills/will-you-support-the-climate-act?t=e44m3cQ1N---------------TRANSCRIPTION FROM OTTER.AIUnknown Speaker  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by the birth of foundation.Dan Ilic  0:04  Hello, Lewis.Lewis Hobba  0:05  Hello, Daniel. How are you?Dan Ilic  0:06  I don't know if you're aware, but you and I, we are now the award winning irrational fear podcast.Lewis Hobba  0:11  Yeah, I heard we're officially the funniest podcasts in Australia. What a low bar for the whole country.Dan Ilic  0:17  And anyone who's new to listening to this podcast, can I just say I just send some really exceptional bits in for the awards? So don't expect to be funny. straight off the bat.Unknown Speaker  0:27  Yeah,Lewis Hobba  0:28  what what do you have to send in you have to in like, 20 minutes or something, and we make a general podcast, that's about 0.01% of the waffle on an average podcastDan Ilic  0:37  and show across the year, there's gonna be five minutes of really crappy stuff that's gonna have you in stitches. And that's what you can expect from us. Across the year, five minutes is gonna make you laugh.Lewis Hobba  0:48  If you're listening to this, think of yourself as a gold miner, going in, going under that going into the shaft. And who knows, maybe you'll spend five years of your life and it'll be for nothing. Or maybe within 10 minutes, you'll find a little nugget of gold, and you'll be able to check it in and you'll be you'll be happy for the rest of your life.Dan Ilic  1:07  People who have been happy for the rest of their life, and they found the gold include new Patreon supporters. Phil Thank you, Phil. Michael David lai adoos Frankie Lee has upped her contribution from 20 to 30 bucks a month. That's, that's like three standard subscriptions. Frankie, thank you very much for that. And a big thanks to James Shira, who dropped us a $10 support package as well. You can support us. We may be award winning, Louis, but we don't have many sponsors. In fact, the only people who sponsor us are our Patreon supporters.Lewis Hobba  1:36  Yeah. Obviously still not getting paid despite the award can't cast the award for money down andDan Ilic  1:42  you can't you know what i did you see this clip of Kyle Sandilands, who double bass on tik tok and walked up to him and he was in sitting in his bed late, and some taco went up to and said, What do you do for a job in car sounds like a little bit of radio, I do a bit of TV. I'm a publisher. I have a music company, and I drive a Bentley. Well, it doesn't I drive a 2000 Corolla so you know that that's comparable. Incidentally, we bake Collin Jackie. Oh, what do you mean, they went in the category with Oh, no, we beat Hamish and Andy, but they have houses in Queenstown. That's fine.Lewis Hobba  2:15  Yeah, but also thank you all again to all the new Patreon subscribers, particularly thanks to the one who did it before we were famous and award winning, you know, your ones we won't forget.Dan Ilic  2:24  Yes, yes. big thank you to those people who signed up in the very early days before we were good. Before we were award winning before before nobody actually whom I was gonna say before nobody knew names. Who am I kidding? Nobody knows. And David Lewis. You and I have had illustrious careers on national broadcast is another way they willLewis Hobba  2:42  people either know who will know one of my names at a time. They know it's a Veronica and Lewis all they know, Hubbard hanger. They never know them both at the same time.Dan Ilic  2:50  I'm still convinced that we only one because people thought you were Tony Martin.Lewis Hobba  2:56  That's the dream. Yeah, I'm still cashing those get this checks.Dan Ilic  3:00  Another way to support irrational fears to offset the carbon emissions from your car with a go neutral sticker for every 990 dollars ticket go neutral by 3.5 tonnes of carbon, which is about the same as yearly emissions for a car and five bucks that comes to us, Lewis, you're not joining us on this week's show. But you'll be in Melbourne. I hope for you the best.Lewis Hobba  3:17  Thank you. Yeah, I've had enough. I've had enough. I was only in it for the awards. I've won the award. And now I'm retiring from this podcast.Dan Ilic  3:25  I assume you're gonna go and head off to three AWS and get that sweet, sweet, three IWA money.Lewis Hobba  3:30  Yeah, I won't be around for the rest of podcasts. And unfortunately, as we are recording this, I'm on a plane to Melbourne. I'm going to see my family who I haven't seen thisDan Ilic  3:38  Christmas. Oh, exciting. That's fantastic. I think that is a beautiful moment. I think there are there's plenty of Sydney, Melbourne, Melbourne, Australia wide readings happening all around the nation, which is absolutely terrific. Well enjoy that. I'm recording my end of irrational fear and gadigal Land of the urination sovereignty was never stated. We need a trading. Let's start the shock.Unknown Speaker  3:57  A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks. cambro fan COMM And section 40 of our rational fear recommended listening might emerge your audience. TonightDan Ilic  4:11  the death of Diego Maradona sends the world's football fans and cocaine markets into a tailspin. And Charlie Amelio becomes the first tik tok to reach 100 million followers with six hours of content or approximately the amount of time it takes the average Social Media Manager to explain tik tok to their boss and Scott Morrison calls the Cali more Gilbert business with around a miracle apparently doesn't know how governments work. It's the 27th of November 2020. And it feels like the last week of school but it's not. This is irrational fear.Welcome to irrational fear the show that takes the scary news of the week and finds the comfy bits to rub our faces in. I'm your host for official photographer of the Prime Minister Daniel itch. Let's meet our female guest for tonight. Joining us from the free state of Melbourne. He's the host of Italy's Daily Show and The biggest name, the biggest smallest name and Australian economy. Economy. Why not? It's a man Frank che good I am on what's it like to walk the streets of Melbourne?Imaan Frank Hadchiti  5:17  It's fine.Dan Ilic  5:22  And she's one of the most in demand comedians on the podcasts today her boss as in her boss demands that she do at least a podcast. It's Alice Fraser get Alice what other demands is Andy Saltzman have for you?Alice Fraser  5:35  Oh well the the problem with Andy is he's such a delight to work with that we end up always working together though he demands to do the most puns that always have to do slightly fewer puns than him.Dan Ilic  5:49  And from the chaser, it's the multiple actor nominated Chris Tyler, Chris nominated for upright and at home alone together this week. Both of those are in the comedy category. What happens if neither when ChrisChris Taylor  6:01  if neither wins, it'll be a victory for comedy. Can I just say them and I genuinely surprised that you are humble enough not to raise yourself earlier. I feel very nervous doing this podcast this week with you because of course you won an award something much better than an actor award a a an Australian podcast award, the best comedy podcast in Australia and this puts pressure on on us tonight. A lot of people have been shooting in for the first time tonight and you know be their first experience of irrational fear of this shit. It's on us and so I just want to say no pressure. I notice Louis very strategically decided to have this one out.Dan Ilic  6:42  Oh have you know that tonight is is is shit on purpose. Because of that. We want to lower expectations so we can win again next year. It's not often Ubaid, Hamish and Andy a tiny mountain sounds like it's really exotic.Alice Fraser  6:55  I feel like it's very important if you win an award to prove that awards are worth nothing because inevitably you will just want to prove to everyone that no one really deserves in a world.Dan Ilic  7:09  Coming up is rupert murdoch going broke investigative journalist Michael West will be joining us to help put the pieces together. But first, here's a message from this week's sponsor ZurichMathias Cormann  7:18  on camera. Wow, Madrid, Brussels. Wow. Birth camera. Wow, good eye. I'm former finance minister Mateus Coleman. Travelling during the pandemic can be hard, which is why I fly with common airlines on bypass flying a private jet across the world to prove your green credentials to European politicians to get a tax free job can cost over $4,000 an hour. But because I'm not an economic girly, man, I just got the audible I have to do it. So it's 100% free. That's right free. I don't even work for the Australian Government anymore. Somebody else buys for it. That's financed baby fly common airlines every seat is up business See, and a few on Australian stock in Europe trying to escape overnight been dry a chop off.Dan Ilic  8:08  Alright, let's get into the fears. Speaking of airlines angry customers have swore never to fly cuantas ever again after Alan Joyce said that COVID vaccinations would be mandatory on future flights. Although just like Qantas job security, it's only 70%. Effective. Yes, if you want to fly quanis, you'll be strapped in a chair and stabbed aggressively with a needle or as they call it, economy. And if you're willing to pay twice the price, you'll also be stabbed with the needle but with more leg room, which is great. And this is of course it's absolutely terrible news for any anti vaxxers for mullumbimby. Who will have to take their trips the usual way with acid. So is it okay that Qantas is demanding international customers get the jab?Chris Taylor  8:50  I'm okay with this. Um, firstly, from a health point of view, I think you've we've spent the whole year waiting for this vaccine. If one exists, then why wouldn't you have it? But the main reason I'm all pro This is because it will introduce more segregation in flying. You know, remember the old days where there was a smoking section and a non smoking section. Now actually divide anti vaxxers from vectors where there will actually be a curtain between people and in the same people to make it really obvious is that the moment you've kind of had to guess, or are they an anti vaxxer or not, by now if we just either just have a separate class. And I suggest, you know, there must be something worse than cattle classes. They're just a, you know, a needle prod class or just luggage hold will do. Or even a separate airline. I don't know what virgin is doing these days. But if they could pivot just to become the anti vaxxer airline. I think it could be very goodDan Ilic  9:40  for all Yeah, jab star becomes the airline that was frozen.Alice Fraser  9:46  Well, I have to disagree with you completely. Chris, I think this is a ridiculous infringement on personal liberties. And while we're at it, we should get rid of the rule that you're not allowed to fly when you're very pregnant. The rule that you're not allowed to fly when you're on fire or carrying liquids in bottles of more than 100 million I feel like the people who are anti Vax pre flight are the kind of people who defiantly drink half a litre of expensive shampoo with customs. Because how dare you tell them that they're not allowed to bring a bottle of shampoo and a wet goat on board?Unknown Speaker  10:16  What's this?Dan Ilic  10:17  I'm over 400 mils. All right, let me get rid of this right? on my head. A man you do a lot of flying? How do you feel about this?Imaan Frank Hadchiti  10:26  I don't know. I just wonder how they gonna enforce it. You know? Like, is it gonna be that sort of sneaky add ons? When you book your ticket? We're like, yeah, you know, if you don't click the dead stop box, you know, it's gonna cost you $70 to get the job at the gate, you know? Is it gonna be like that?Dan Ilic  10:42  It's kind of interesting, Chris, like you were saying how we were waiting for this moment to happen. We're kind of now putting our responsibilities because governments are so scared to do anything because of political pressure. It's up to now, corporations to actually do the moral take the moral high ground and show moral leadership. Yeah. Is there anything? Is it Do you?Chris Taylor  11:01  Do you feel weird about that? No, no, I'm kind of grateful. Because I've lost hope waiting for governments to show moral leadership on this. I What was interesting for this in me on a serious note was how early Joyce went with it, because we will see a lot of this not just in the airline industry, but anywhere where you know, where there's group sort of situations, they probably weren't like schools, churches, gyms, and so forth. I think there will be a stipulation soon, that unless you've had the backstay out, so from a sort of marketing point of view is a bit unsanded. A bit Todd Sampson, he was sort of surprised. Joyce came out so hard and early. But he did say in his comments, I think, didn't he that he'd been speaking privately with his counterparts at other airlines, and they're all going to do it. So any anti vaxxer who thinks they just won't fly quarters from now on? What maybe have a lot of other options if they're all on the same page on this? You didDan Ilic  11:54  bring up branding and marketing. This is really interesting. This is bad news for anti vaxxers. They are now adding force on the internet complaining about this, and including this one who is a TV psychologist from the UK. Her name's Emma Kenny, she's got some suggestions for quartersUnknown Speaker  12:09  in 20,000 people are damaged by vaccines, meaning that compared to the amount of children that damaged by COVID, there is no comparison. Vaccines will damage more children. And they will help so cuantas are advocating for the willful harm of children. Is that what you want your next year strapline to be cuantas willfully injured children? Fly with cuantas. But we might just NGO kid. Oh, well,Dan Ilic  12:41  what do you think about that in mind?Imaan Frank Hadchiti  12:43  I'm for injuring children.Chris Taylor  12:45  So people forget, I mean, this is extremely on brand for cuantas. They they've been exploiting that Children's Choir for years taking the most places that are freezing cold, like the London Bridge at 5am to shoot an ad in the middle of a little room on top of the Opera House. I mean, the light shade has a load on that. So I think this is a good move for corners and very consistent. I just sort of want to know if they'll be you know, we talked about business class earlier, like, is there sort of like a deluxe vaccine and sort of budget version one is the one that you can lace with, yeah, you know, Bali, or Dom Perignon, or something. So it's a little bit more fun. Like how are the how the Jetson is gonna embrace this.Alice Fraser  13:28  One of the things that I'm I'm very sorry about about this conscious announcement is that they're now going to have to change their song because it's not true anymore. There are no cities that never shut down. His own backyard is a worst example of pork barrel and you can findDan Ilic  13:47  this week's second fear. I like a turkey pardoning Chris you like a turkey pardoning in a tradition going back decades, President Trump is officially part of the turkey to save it from ending up as part of a Thanksgiving faced. Additionally, in terms of tradition, that's going back only a few hours, Trump also pardoned a chicken former NSA adviser Michael Flynn. Sadly, it's too late for Flynn to avoid all homies officially been roasted and devoured by the press, and on close inspection has revealed no sign of a brain spine or guts. Chris, Turkey patterning is a very strange cultural thing in America. You know, it's up there with Halloween and school shootings. How do you take a part of the celebration yourself?Chris Taylor  14:30  But I watch it every year with bemusement, because it's amazing how commonly this tradition comes along and a really bad time. Like I remember, during the Vietnam War, like there's always very dark stories going on. And the President has this one little window of this sort of novelty pantomime routine where they pretend the world's quite fun. And I think it went on when we were bombing Kuwait. Last year when Trump was in the middle of impeachment proceedings and came out to do the traditional fun bit. It's the company Bit of the presidency. And it's it's sort of naff, isn't it? And I it's also quite mccobb. I mean, because everyone goes Oh, Isn't it lovely we part in a turkey. What we don't forget is one of the turkeys doesn't get pardoned, like to be brought along, one gets its throat slit and is then roasted in the White House oven. As does every other turkey in America except the one that's chosen. How do we know why that one was chosen? Who's behind it? Did you vote? Did you see the counts? Were Republicans and Democrats allowed to watch the vote process to determine which 30 gets pardoned?Dan Ilic  15:36  Well, actually, Chris, I don't know if you've seen this clip. This is from 2018 this is Trump explaining the process and how it actually works. This is from two years ago.Donald Trump  15:45  The winner of this vote was decided by a fair and open election conducted on the White House website this was a fair election. Unfortunately carrots refused to concede and demanded a recount and we're still fighting with carrots and I will tell you we've come to a conclusion carrots I'm sorry to tell you the result did not change it's too bad for carrots. Wow.Chris Taylor  16:15  credibly preceded and I love how jolly he is about carrots you're about to meet a teen I mean yeah guy that used to run what Miss University when he didn't when he you know when he crowned the winner? Did he then turn to the runner up and go off to the oven. I mean, it's it's it's so bizarre. And the one thing I was gonna say you sort of touched on this a bit the the actual news this week, because Trump sort of in a much more, I guess what you'd call grotesque pardoning chapter at the moment where all his mates who may or may not have been involved in Russian collusion are gradually getting pardoned, because he's got form pardoning really dodgy people. How do we know the turkey he pardoned this year? He's innocent. Like, I suspect this turkey may have been involved in collusion. I don't have evidence like this saying if Trump's pardon the turkey, who know that turkeys about Apple.Alice Fraser  17:09  So the turkey this year is called corn after the other and D percent of the American diet that isn't factory meat. But no one thinks about like the post pardoning life of the one free Turkey. I mean, does it just leave on in a horrifying, massive survivor's guilt until it's eaten by a wolf or regret. And if you listen to the speech this year, Donald Trump also called the turkey beautiful, which is the way he attributes value to anything. And as a satirical comedian, who's frankly tired of the lazy leftist denigration of Trump just because he's a brash, hollow showman with the vocabulary of a child. I refuse to maliciously misinterpret his harmless turkey compliment by suggesting that it indicates that he wants to fuck the Turkey. Turkey democracy.Mathias Cormann  17:57  I mean, you know, some states, you know, we're ahead. All right, stop counting overhead, and then other states were behind. So, you know,Unknown Speaker  18:06  Donald Trump is a genius. That's what the J stands for.Dan Ilic  18:09  This week's third fear. Remember the sovereign citizens that all that sovereign citizen bullshit we had to deal with during our COVID lockdown? Well, in the UK, people are trying to get out of COVID restrictions by quoting the Magna Carta to the police. According to one article, a salon owner has repeated violations and she's clocked up 27,000 pounds in fines, 27,000 pounds in Australian dollars, that's enough to get you a block of land in the leppington triangle that is significant. Now, specifically, this salon owner and many others have quoted article 61 of the Magna Carta, which was only enforced for a few months, over 800 years ago. Or was it I don't know, awaking up you shape or go read a book. Or you could read a book if books were invented? No, when the Magna Carta was written books got invented 200 years after the Magna Carta was written so forget reading books. You know, when conspiracy theorists say you know, do your own research, I just say fuck this one and try to a constitutional lawyer because it's so much easier. Alice as the only lawyer on the panel and as someone who's lived a long time in the UK, what's going on here?Alice Fraser  19:13  Well, the Magna Carta, or great big charter in English is a very hot document so hot, you might as well call it the Magna Carta, and so big you could call it the Magna Carta. Now it's a pivotal part of British legislative history and it's such a beautiful artefact you usually collect khaligraph at the hands of monks probably because back in those days, relatively few select people could read or write. Jeez, those were the days imagine Twitter if it were just a few chilled out monk swapping tips on how to go to D mediaeval baby Jesus badly, like really badly and have a look at some of the weird adult baby Jesus pics or mediaeval manuscripts at the time. But anyway, it's just such a specific legal nerd piece of legislation for these people to be waving around at their cell on doors. You think that if you knew anything about the Magna Carta, you know it's not relevant unless you're a 12th century Baron and I don't Don't want to question your lived experience, but I guarantee you have way too many peopleDan Ilic  20:05  actually actually Christie's a 12th century Baron he is, asAlice Fraser  20:11  well Also, if you're citing the Magna Carta as a reason that you're allowed to keep your shop open during COVID restrictions, maybe you want to look at the regulations of that period on how people with leprosy or other illnesses the genesis of the term quarantine and easily during the play.Dan Ilic  20:28  That's absolutely true. Chris, what have you been quoting any obscure constitutional documents to places you've been going about your your lockdown experience?Chris Taylor  20:38  No, but I have noticed a trend with this. Like it was interesting in England where we've seen the Magna Carta quoted remember Karen from Bunnings in Australia earlier in the year, they seem to have a suspiciously very good knowledge of the the charter of human rights as she was trying to be convinced that Paul Bunyan stuff why she shouldn't have to wear a facemask. I don't know what it isn't Batman cases, or people who just don't want to pull their weight when it comes to public health and the public good. But they seem to have a love of arcane law, or very esoteric law. Now, I don't know if they've all been to law school before they go to Bunnings or wherever they just they've learned one phrase that they've learned are the you know, the Geneva Convention, and just sort of dropped that into a good discussion for the poor receptionist at Bunnings thinking that some capsule get out of jail free card but or I wouldn't give him the benefit of the doubt that maybe these are great legal scholars have arcane esoteric law. And maybe they right Dan and was wrong, Boris Johnson is wrong. And maybe we should be listening to these scholars who just have chosen to go into hair salon work. I mean, they could have been a barrister. They could have been a great eminent lecturer in law at Oxford or Cambridge, but they've chosen to come here because they're a person of the people.Dan Ilic  21:52  I just like the personnel sorry, beta police person or a bannings employee game. Oh, Geneva Convention. Right this way, ma'am. I am so sorry. No idea. A man what's your take on this?Imaan Frank Hadchiti  22:07  I'm just I'm just glad to see people in the in the West figured out that they're not as free as they thought they were. I mean, that's always fun to watch. You know.Dan Ilic  22:18  See, is this from your, your Lebanese experience.Imaan Frank Hadchiti  22:22  This this season like I struggle with, like, Oh my god, we're running out of toilet paper. What else in the world Jesus?Dan Ilic  22:29  Well, it's this time of year where TV networks roll out what's on offer for next year and surprisingly, a stack of new shows are coming out that are critical of the government. TelevisionUnknown Speaker  22:39  has never been disgraceful, presenting all new 20 to one coach sandals.Gabbi Bolt  22:49  Remember when the whole country was on fire and the Prime Minister went on holidays to Hawaii and his office wouldn't tell us where he was. I was like, Whoa, crazy. It was like I'm a celebrity Get me out of here. But it was your the Prime Minister get the phoneUnknown Speaker  23:02  back here. Hello. As you realise Noah is to be held responsibleUnknown Speaker  23:08  for like two days the immigration Minister and the Attorney General the day they were accused of bullying and misogyny. I can't believe we forgot about that. I actually I can't Can you believe that?Gabbi Bolt  23:18  Yeah, everyone got distracted by war crimes which are cool, but not sexy.Unknown Speaker  23:21  Story. WhatUnknown Speaker  23:22  are we talking about?Unknown Speaker  23:23  I forgot cry. As you realise the general public don't care two words. RubyUnknown Speaker  23:33  wrote aUnknown Speaker  23:33  French word or hair.Unknown Speaker  23:37  That's 22 um, coalition scandals, followed by the all new you can't ask that of a Federal Minister. Whatever happened toUnknown Speaker  23:47  Angus Taylor's water deals? Yeah, you can ask that. Whatever happened to paladins contracts have managed to turn out that either. And whatever happened to the bushfire recovery? Well, you can't ask that because doesn't exist.Unknown Speaker  24:02  Plus of ciders. Sports roads edition, where we go over the most sensational sporting roads of the week. Oh my god, did you see that? He wanted that right between the posts. 2021 is bringing you newer shows with the same old scandals unless we get raided by the FBI again.Dan Ilic  24:25  Now let me call my call to see if we can get him up. Here we go.Unknown Speaker  24:28  Please leave a detailed message after the time. I'm sick. Michael West. Typical.Dan Ilic  24:33  Well, due to technical difficulties, we don't have Michael West, but it was gonna be an interesting conversation. I'm sure.Chris Taylor  24:39  I mean, this is typical. This is this is Murdoch through and through where Murdoch just understands what he's about to be discussed on a very prominent award winning Australian podcast. And I wouldn't be surprised to be said West kidnapped, certainly muzzled. I'd like to look into this if only Michael West was here to look into it. To get to the bottom of this but it's very very suspiciousDan Ilic  25:01  Dan in mind if you could, please could you please be Michael West while I asked you some questions about rupert murdochImaan Frank Hadchiti  25:09  hang on let me just get some talcum powder first hang onDan Ilic  25:14  all right a man just how screwed is the Murdoch business in Australia?Imaan Frank Hadchiti  25:18  Well I mean it's it's it is the screw that is screwing us it is not screwed I think it's um I don't know what does Michael with sound like who is this? Can I just add that this is the biggest fear that I've had is the fact that this is the best comedy Australia's got to offer aDan Ilic  25:41  big thank you to Alice fries a man Frank Chetty and Chris Taylor and I guess Michael west to many cold but he didn't click the link. That's okay. Thanks very much, guys. Now do you guys have anything to plug? Man? You wanna plug anything got shows coming up?Imaan Frank Hadchiti  25:56  Yes, I'm gonna be doing a cheeky cabaret up in Brunswick heads in Brunswick Picturehouse. 12th on the 14th of December. So come check me in my tiny black keys. And I wasDan Ilic  26:07  Friday. You got anything to plug?Alice Fraser  26:09  Yes, indeed. This is coming out on the 27th of November which means tonight if you're in Sydney, I am at the Comedy Store doing an hour of comedy. And also I have a daily satirical news podcast set in an alternate dimension and it's called the last post and it's extremely silly.Dan Ilic  26:24  Does Michael West call you back on in that alternative dimension?Alice Fraser  26:30  No, he's been eaten by the octopus people of New Zealand.Dan Ilic  26:34  Agree Salah What have you got to plugChris Taylor  26:37  I've just started a new podcast with Michael west where we just sort of spend an hour just talking about why we don't want to talk to daily lives ever again. You can catch that on wherever you get your podcasts good.Dan Ilic  26:49  Big thanks to rode mics the birth of foundation go neutral Patreon supporters Jacob round on the Kevin yankeetown line words you may have heard you've come from Maddie Palmer Diablos den James Colley, as well as many tidbits from our discord community. forces you may have heard from this episode include Wendy Harmer, Ben McKenzie bros a avadh. Gabby bot Robin McGregor and Rupa de gas Until next week, there's always something to be scared of. Good night.Transcribed by https://otter.aiA Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🌳 If you want to support the podcast and take your car carbon neutral, with GoNeutral here: http://bit.ly/GoNeutral This week we rip into Pete Evans. Why not? Everyone else is. We as whether or not we should let dead mummies lie. We cheer on SA as they go into their 6 day hard lockdown. And we mock the SA government for trying to implement a tax on electric cars.Fearmongers this week:Zach Ruane (Aunty Donna's Big Ole House of Fun)Virginia Gay (All Saints Big Ol Hospital of Fiction)Dan Ilic (The Ronnie Johns Half Hour of Nonsense)Lewis Hobba (Hungry Beast)and Noah Schultz-Byard (SA Director of The Australia Institue) ____________________Transcript below from Otter.Ai.Unknown Speaker  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by the birther foundation.Dan Ilic  0:04  Welcome to the podcast in case you're streaming us you will you'll know that Louis is face can't be seen because one he is a dentist and he's got a terrible laptop. If you want Louis to be able to be seen on streams in the future, please become our Patreon supporter. Just like Brett Murphy has Alex felony offski Vicki hassles, journalists Marty smiley Louis this month this week is become a supporter of us on Patreon.Lewis Hobba  0:28  Actually, I spent the weekend with Marty and he told me that and I was like that is so kind. But I think he also owes me because my niece Molly once had sex and my dad was away. And so he does, he does so much more money than he could ever give us on Patreon. Well, he'sDan Ilic  0:44  showing you $3 a month right now, which says a lot about body smiley for black. Yeah. And also Louis, we got a superfan who's giving us an embarrassing amount of money. David O'Connor is a school friend of mine. And probably you know those people who are like the most likely to succeed. When you're in high school. He is that guy and he has gone beyond our expectations and succeeded. So he's giving us a few hundred dollars a month which is incredible. Another way to support irrational fear is to offset the carbon emissions from your car with the go neutral sticker for every new $90 go neutral by 3.5 tonnes of carbon offsets which is about the average yearly emissions from a car and five bucks that comes to us. I'm recording my end of a rational fee on gadigal land in the urination. sovereignty was never seated, waited a treaty. Let's start the shot.Unknown Speaker  1:31  A rational fear contains naughty words like bricks cambro COMM And section 40 of a rational fear recommended listening by immature audience.Dan Ilic  1:44  Tonight at the 26 minute long News Corp AGM rupert murdoch said he's not a climate denier. He's just number one with climate deniers. And thanks to COVID-19 Adelaide enters six days of staying at home and doing nothing also known as Adelaide and Australia is set to open all state and territory borders by Christmas except CWA that ruined our holiday plans to Perth exclaimed no one is the 20th of November 2020. And many smart people are saying that we are gonna beat sizzle Tam at the Australian podcast level. So best comedy. This is irrational fear. Hello and welcome to irrational fear the show that holds your hand through the spookiest stories of the week on your host, former chairman of crown casino Dan Ilic. Joining me on the podcast this week, the mongers of fear. And let me tell you first up, he's the only guy left or Triple J who hasn't managed to go behind his boss's back to secure a deal with a commercial radio station. It's Louis harbor.Lewis Hobba  2:55  Begging for a den one day I'll get that you can pick it up.Dan Ilic  2:59  And she's a writer, performer, actor, musician and racconta it's the old star of all saints Virginia gay. Howdy, Dan. We have we're great. And our next guest Well, let's put it this way. It's been a quiet like nothing career defining or genre defying or nothing really in the realm of international acclaim has taken up his time and attention and as a result has had plenty of time to read the news and be a guest on every single comedy podcast from Australia. He's one third of the way up until this week that little known Australia sketch comedy group. Auntie Donna, Zack Ryan. Hello,Zach Ruane  3:33  hello. Thank you so much. I haven't had much time to read the news. But I think in the great tradition of white men through history, I'm just gonna have opinions without being informed. I'm just gonna go for him. Just you'll hear him I'll have himVirginia Gay  3:48  in the great tradition of white women.Unknown Speaker  3:52  Hilarious.Dan Ilic  3:58  Coming up in the podcast we're gonna be talking to two southies one the pizza guy comm security guard who is patient zero in the state's latest outbreak and we're gonna be talking about how the South Australian government is trying to implement attacks on electric cars which could see terrible policy make its way throughout the country just like other baddest South Australia incidents like dance chance and romance. But first here is this week's sponsor.Unknown Speaker  4:23  This week on SNS Australia, Nick Cummins is issued with his toughest challenge. Yes, they call you the honey badger right?Unknown Speaker  4:31  The pipe shed in the woods.Unknown Speaker  4:33  Do you want to win SS Australia? Oh man I want to win like a Dingo wants a baby. So when sh Australia all you have to do is indiscriminately destroy 39 innocent people are metaphorical your mind because anytime I go to the pub on ladies noUnknown Speaker  4:48  I'm like a bull in a china shop. IUnknown Speaker  4:50  just absolutely destroy murder them just like the real Australian. So yes.Lewis Hobba  4:56  Oh, holy Dooley. Hold your horses.Unknown Speaker  4:58  That's good practice. Hold your horses. ThenUnknown Speaker  5:02  go go go go feel everyUnknown Speaker  5:04  dog sleeping adventure and indiscriminate murders on this week's episode of sa Yes, Australia yet won't be seen on seven because the AFP would rate us and put us in jail.Unknown Speaker  5:15  ChapelleDan Ilic  5:18  can't wait to say that one. All right, let's get stuck into their fears. This week's first fear we all know Pete Evans has been canceled once popular conspiracy theories shift. The same guy who activated armands has been dropped by his publisher and book chains for activating right wing conspiracy theorists with a Nazi black son car turn on Facebook. Now to be fair, he's also at COVID conspiracy theorist which has killed almost 1.5 million people in six months. And he's even been dropped by channel 10. I'm a celebrity Get me out of here because the producers couldn't find conditions that were more extreme than having It's been eight weeks isolated with Pete Evans. His products have also been dropped from Coles and while we're so fear mongers it is safe to say you can't get canceled in Australia unless you're a white guy who wants to promote the Nazis. Well, what do you say Zach? Is? Is has it? Why is it taken this long to cancel? paid adverts? Oh, myZach Ruane  6:09  goodness gracious me. I think there's an element with him where he's just such a big goof. He's been a goofus long. just gone. He started to go. Oh, Kate.Lewis Hobba  6:24  If he led with narcissism, he would have been like, I don't like oh my God, this guy's a Nazi. Because he led with sort of cheeky things like I'm gonna stare at the sun and tell people it's healthy. You like about Tommy it's an autism. You like well, he aged to seen, you know, it's like, it's not like, it's not like, it's not like throwing a it's like a stepping into a hot bath. It's like putting a frog into a pot and slowly turning up the hate.Virginia Gay  6:47  Yeah. Which would be delicious. In one of his recipes.Dan Ilic  6:52  Louis, I remember talking with you about bass in 2012. There in the very first time, the whole, you know, Twitter had a bit of a meltdown about paid Evans, which is when he was activating armands on his day on a plate column. Or why do you think do you do you? Could you imagine like back in 2012. When we were talking about this, we'd still be talking about it in the year 2020.Unknown Speaker  7:11  I mean,Lewis Hobba  7:12  I guess I'm kind of surprised that, that Pete Evans has lost that as long as he has. He is I mean, they were. He's such he's pretty bad talent. Like, have you ever watched him on television? He's not very good. But he's not a very good presenter. And he's such a bad chef, that he actually got beaten by a contestant on his own show. So he's neither a good chef nor a good presenter, nor a non Nazi. I guess that's, that's a zero from three for me.Virginia Gay  7:42  Isn't it also true that like, if you're astonished that you're still talking about Pete Evans, and you were first talking about him in 2012? Does that make him our Trump? Because Are we still astonished that we're talking about Trump? Like, he was just a punch line in 2015? Right? Who's the punch line? In fact, home alone to eat in the city or whatever? Oh,Dan Ilic  8:04  are you implying that Paige Evans is going to become Prime Minister of Australia sometimes? God?Unknown Speaker  8:13  Jesus Christ,Dan Ilic  8:13  He is very, He's very handsome. He's got those sparkly eyes. He does like to surf.Virginia Gay  8:18  nice smile lines. Have you seen as everybody's seen that the video of him saying,Unknown Speaker  8:24  You know what,Virginia Gay  8:25  I didn't even I had to look up the phrase neo nazi, I would say, mate, does what it says on the tin. But I also am obsessed with the fact that he's standing next to that horse and that horse is like, stop at my stop.Unknown Speaker  8:39  I said, Shut up.Virginia Gay  8:41  That horses is press agent. And even that horse can't keep him in line. Here it is.Unknown Speaker  8:48  Well, just wait until 2020 anymore because the mainstream media have come out and labeled me a racist and a neo nazi effect that I had to actually Google a neo nazi man is pretty telling. So I would just want to tell you this once and one time early. It is completely untrue. unfactual and a load of garbage here. I could actually say a few more words, but anybody that knows me knows I stand for long term, sustainable health for all humanity. I don't think there's anything else I need to say except please. Oh myDan Ilic  9:25  god, you're right, Virginia. That horse was really trying to shut him the hell up.Virginia Gay  9:30  That a horse is a channel seven publishers going we had one chance.Unknown Speaker  9:39  They'll pretty much takeZach Ruane  9:40  anyone on I'm a celebrity. Get me out of here. It's sort of like they'll they'll take some great celebrities. I've had friends on that show, but they'll also just go are you at your lowest point?Unknown Speaker  9:51  Yes. Come on board.Unknown Speaker  9:55  Come on.Zach Ruane  9:56  Get on the show.Virginia Gay  9:58  Do delicious. just pile of cockroaches. What is the price that you would need on the table to do that shows that?Unknown Speaker  10:07  Oh, yeah.Unknown Speaker  10:10  Oh,Lewis Hobba  10:11  I mean, keep in mind that a worldwide Netflix deal? Yeah.Unknown Speaker  10:15  Right, Louis.Lewis Hobba  10:18  I'll do a free MacBook Pro.Unknown Speaker  10:23  For a webcam.Zach Ruane  10:28  There's something really when you're working when you're working Australian artists, that whole show the whole idea of I'm a celebrity Get me out of here is it's about bringing people down. It's like, these big coastal elites, again, ate some cockroaches, and we're gonna have a little laugh at them. But when it's just working Australian artists, it's just like, Oh, look, look what desperation and a bad in this, like a badly funded industry will do to people. It's very sad and hard to watch. ButDan Ilic  10:58  it's not even like that I needed to Kobe used to be the boss of the show that the boss of the company that makes that show, and she asked me when I was first going, she's like, would you go on that show? And I was like, actually, because I would say like, it'd be like eight weeks of solid pay and solid work. And of course you don't. And if anything like I mean Joel crazy was in the first ever season and it kind of helped him with his career totally blew up his career. Now he's become a household name. Yeah. Well, yeah, you do.Lewis Hobba  11:31  I think the way that the people who cost it, this is like, actual words from costing people say that they try to get good people on the way up and bad people on the way down. So it's like,Unknown Speaker  11:46  oh, that'sDan Ilic  11:47  amazing. So when I was asked five years ago, I might have been a good person going up, but now I'm definitely a bad guy.Lewis Hobba  11:54  Yeah, you weren't. You're crazy now you're Chappelle. Is it?Zach Ruane  11:58  Is there anything in this Pete Evans story, when when when I hear that, like Twitter blew up in 2012, about the activated almonds? Is there anything in this story about maybe we need to stop blowing up about activated almonds?Dan Ilic  12:15  People who are pure about their food are also pure about their bloodlines. So we got to be very careful about who is pure about what things we got to be very careful about that.Unknown Speaker  12:25  You're listeningUnknown Speaker  12:26  to a rational fear,Unknown Speaker  12:29  I can very easily disappear. You know, some people would like me to disappear and I doubt and I'll just make this one statement. If I disappear or I have a frickin weird accident, it wasn't an accident. Okay.Dan Ilic  12:41  This way second fear. Archaeologists in Egypt have an earth more than 100 A delicately painted wooden coffins, some with mummies inside and 40 funeral statues in the ancient burial ground of Saqqara, Virginia is everything okay? With this story, you find this?Virginia Gay  12:58  I am so thrilled about this story. Because what's so great about it is it's just so great to take a break from the inescapable dread of COVID and the inescapable dread of like Trump maybe barricaded himself in the White House and just really focus on the inescapable dread of awakening and ancient curse. And I just think in times like these, a change is as good as a holiday. I for one, welcome our new mommy overlords. I cannot wait to have the Scarab beetles up under my skin, I will be excited to class the jewel that then turns my hand to dust.Dan Ilic  13:31  What a thrill the sealed wooden coffin some containing mummies date far back as 2500 G's are in perfect condition of preservation, and are fine quality coffins meant as they were probably the final resting place of the wealthiest citizens official said Well, clearly, the final resting place is not going to be there. It's going to be the British Museum or somewhere else.Lewis Hobba  13:53  Yeah, it's the wealthy citizens that mean it's sort of their equivalent of paid Evans.Dan Ilic  13:59  Yeah. Oh, Jeff Bezos, like it's one of those things. Yeah.Lewis Hobba  14:03  I think it's just gold covered. Um,Dan Ilic  14:05  and I think you're right, Virginia. I think you know, it is time to kind of disrupt the horror show we're living in in 2020. And it's good to have some I mean, I've watched the documentary it's goodVirginia Gay  14:14  to have an actual literal horror show. Yes.Dan Ilic  14:18  Exactly. Why, why deal in figuratively terms? Yeah, I watched a documentary The other day called The Mummy Returns. And it was it was very insightful. I'm looking forward. I'mZach Ruane  14:28  also really, really curious how quickly how quickly corporations are gonna get on board with the mummy curse, like they're on their own no contact delivery within like, get a pizza for you and a garlic bread for the ancient mommy in your basement.Lewis Hobba  14:51  I saw that. There's a new Netflix documentary all about this the opening of this term. And have you guys seen this? Oh, yes. Yeah. I am. wondered if it was the biggest thing to be on Netflix this week's act?Zach Ruane  15:04  No, no, no, actually, I think you will find it the crown.Virginia Gay  15:11  The Queen's gambit is also very good.Zach Ruane  15:13  Yeah, absolutely. When we when we were like setting up like, we had an announced date and a release date, and then they emailed us a few, like maybe a month ago, two months ago, and they're like, oh, we're gonna move the date forward. And I was like, Why? Why? Why? Like, look, it's a complicated thing. It's about other shows. And I just Google and my other currencies and just want to get like, some time before everyone's like, Diane.Dan Ilic  15:42  I've got a question about your shows that I could in the Yeah, I don't think it's too weird to talk about how you had this episode called the claim. Did you guys build that episode? Because you knew the crown was coming back?Zach Ruane  15:53  No, like, nice. It's so funny because it comes off as a let loose live and they used to talk about the dancing show exactly.Dan Ilic  16:03  Like the only people The only people that remember let loose live are comedians who are who would jealous of anyone who gets a TV show on Fox?Zach Ruane  16:16  Do you know what strategies This is the second job I brought up, let loose live on my promo to get slightly less slightly less. ReferencesDan Ilic  16:25  less live the show that debuted in 2005. It was hosted by Dave O'Neill. It lasted two episodes, it had great people. And unlike Kate McLennan, and Sammy j, and a whole bunch of really old comedians who totally fucked it up. They wanted to create like an SNL for CHANNEL SEVEN. And they had they had these great young talent who were doing good work. And then they had these old talent who were just rolling television, in front of everybody's eyes and in ruining everybody else's chances for making something good in the future. Thankfully, you know that the ronnie Jones half hour came out not long after that, he fixed itZach Ruane  16:59  and saved it all not well. So it seems like synergy. But if you can, if you go back, if you watch our live shows, and listen to our podcast, both broden and I are obsessed with the crown like I've been obsessed with not just the crown I love the queen is one of my favorite movies. And the audience is one of my favorite plays. So Peter Morgan, he just done a lot of stuff about the queen and I'm obsessed with it. And in a very serious like, why, but for some reason, just if something's in your mind long enough, it becomes the comedy. It just sneaks into the company, even if you don't find it funny. So I think we just made a lot of crown references, and then quite by coincidence, it came out a week at the same way.Dan Ilic  17:41  While we're just talking about your show, which is why you're here to talk about your show sometimes. I can I just say one of the things I absolutely love about the anti donut show on Netflix is how you've relentlessly put in Australian references and haven't bothered to Americanize them all. And all I could think of was these, this audience is going to be so curious about what four and 20 pies are. What these other references are like, looking thank god they did that because it's such an tion of the of the of the artists.Zach Ruane  18:14  Yeah, thank you for mentioning that. I think I keep thinking about it. It's like domain. I think the main thing was it maybe it was subconscious. But we were just like, Netflix are gonna make us go international. They're gonna go change the brands. So like, let's go as hard as humanly possible on the Australian references. Let's just like go really really hard so they miss a few. And that will get out big, long writable thing of lists. And unfortunately, the digest didn't realize kasidy Ringwood was a real Australian references like regional like theseDan Ilic  18:49  references.Zach Ruane  18:50  Yeah. And then it turns out when you've got like an $8 billion budget and you're and you're making like the crown for 100 million dollars, the little weeds get show in the corner. They just don't give you notes. So they're going after like Saudi Arabia with a foreign 20 reference.Dan Ilic  19:12  Speaking of regional Australia, South Australia is back in lockdown, which has caused me panic once again. Toilet paper is off the shelves but more to the point. Bottom shops were hit hard this week. The port Pirie bottle shop owner said told the ABC News that yesterday that is Wednesday when we're recording. They usually make $3,000 on a Wednesday, but so far they've taken $35,000 Yeah. And it's not if it's ago adalet Yes, I call them today just to see if they want to wrap for a chat. It turns out they're actually dead today. Because the reason the reason why that was so busy yesterday is because the government hasn't clarified at that point which is bottle shops are allowed to stay open but once the government's like yeah bottle shops can stay oh but nothing no backup other shops like that. Thankfully the South Australian police have issued some reasons to leave home the Finally I think, you know, we've all heard that government clear government rules is really important in times of stress like this. I don't know if you've seen this let me see if I can show you here the reasons to leave home over here. I don't if you can read this, but it's on the list of reasons to leave home which include visiting a petrol station pharmacy and post office shop. There's also one called home commonly known as bottleshop. This is the official This is the official South Australian police information. I love that. So why South Australia back in lockdown again. Well, a cluster of 17 new cases has been tied to a frontline worker for a quarantine hotel security guard took COVID-19 to his second job at a pizza shop. Now fear mongers It seems to me that we should be probably paying our frontline workers a little bit more said that they don't have to have a second job at this time. Is that toVirginia Gay  20:59  slow down what you're crazy? What what? Like actual pay that allows them to live when they are literally protecting us?Unknown Speaker  21:09  something somethingDan Ilic  21:10  something more than minimum wage, perhapsVirginia Gay  21:13  something that doesn't force them to compromise their security and the security of the rest of the stateUnknown Speaker  21:18  whatDan Ilic  21:19  crazy slash nationUnknown Speaker  21:22  nation?Zach Ruane  21:23  It's it's one of those things, isn't it? Like there's been so many things that are like new there are so many things that are that I never thought I'd see or hear that have happened this year. I think my dad my 63 year old dad talking about the casualization of the workforce as a key issue. Probably the man that turns every brand into a plural and he's like, Alright, goodnight. I need to work on these casualizationUnknown Speaker  21:51  thenUnknown Speaker  21:54  you told me to shut up.Lewis Hobba  21:56  You got to unionize the gig economy.Virginia Gay  22:00  Uber rise at night What can you tell me a little more about turning every brand into a plural?Unknown Speaker  22:06  Yeah, what is theZach Ruane  22:08  open is do they you know they don't go to Meijer they go to Myers and I gotta say fight I gotta say flies. Like every moment that happens in your life. I've got friends now. You know, I'm only 30 but I've got friends that I like I would go to Safeway so I'm like get done contribute to the world anymore.Dan Ilic  22:27  But Zack when when your friends start talking brands in plurals you know they're probably got a bunch of investment property so you can hit them up for a line.Unknown Speaker  22:35  Exactly becauseZach Ruane  22:37  I reckon it's I like looking at the way the world is going. It's only up for investment property.Lewis Hobba  22:45  The Adelaide lockdown has been interesting to see just in terms of the the coverage because it's so different to Melbourne lockdowns and obviously, it's still, it's still very new. But it's, it reminds me of I'm the youngest sibling, in my family. And my eldest sibling in my family, my sister is always talking about how she had to do the hardship. Just like mom and dad used to. They had tough rules for me. I couldn't go out it like and then you come along the third person to go through the things and no one cares. You can do whatever you want. Like the coverage of Adelaide is just been like, oh, they're going into lockdown. Now seems like the right thing to do. Like two months ago, it was dictated Dan is like abusing his people you like this is it's the same thing. You've just seen it before.Virginia Gay  23:40  And you smell a stain. how incredibly successful it is. No, no, not stays. Everybody. Well done. melva TribbleDan Ilic  23:46  doughnuts coming soon. mezcal musings on YouTube, right? No, Ben is one big investment property. Ain't that the truth? Well, I spoke to the security guards slice pizza shop worker in question a little earlier on today. Well, we've got patient zero in Adelaide on the line. JOHN from COVID brothers pizza. Thanks for joining us, john. Of course, not your real name. No, it'sUnknown Speaker  24:07  Jonathan Marshall and is reserved for my premium.Dan Ilic  24:11  So Jonathan, working security in a covered hotel and making pizza that is a hell of a juggling act right there.Unknown Speaker  24:17  Well, because I was an artist.Dan Ilic  24:19  Did you ever consider retrainingUnknown Speaker  24:21  beyond Coronavirus? There's not many good sectors in SI besides daycare, and frankly, that wasn't an option because history shows that comedians really can't be trusted around vulnerable sleepy people with foggy memories.Dan Ilic  24:33  So how did pizza enter the picture? Well, myUnknown Speaker  24:35  last word cleanse hope staff meetings after hours and titles and pizza. Sorry, I find the union hotline. They sort of have a huge problem because there's soUnknown Speaker  24:43  you joined the union.Unknown Speaker  24:44  I started making pizza and head of the Union combined with Gary gallon, that stuff when it's pretty big. Right? AndDan Ilic  24:52  is this why you started working security at a covid hotel?Unknown Speaker  24:56  Yeah, I mean, staff meetings on zoom have really smashed my bottom line. The content that I'm working with in a pandemic, on like pages and quarantine is terrible. I still miss making pages to people. It's vertical integration.Dan Ilic  25:09  I think that's actually horizontal integration.Unknown Speaker  25:15  horizontal integration if you know too manyDan Ilic  25:17  people worried about getting COVID on their pizza,Unknown Speaker  25:20  man, it's not the weirdest thing on these put on their faces. Yeah. I mean, if anything, I run the perfect business. I deliver pizzas for businesses under paying their staff painlessly and without complaining that I don't earn enough in my COVID job, but I have to learn like making pizzas. Actually,Dan Ilic  25:45  I don't think you can include the word life in a pizza business linked to a COVID outbreak.Thank you. That was great. Adelaide comedian john Brooks. They're staying in South Australia now. They forced us to drink Cooper's for years now. South Australia is about to export its worst thing since Cory Bernardi. It's a new tax on electric cars. Yeah, the SI Treasurer Rob Lucas reckons it's a done deal. And to him, it makes sense to put a tax on cars that don't pollute. What do you expect from a state that calls itself South Australia that's actually further north than three other states. To talk to us through the dumbest tax ever. It's no assurance by a director of the strategy true for South Australia. Now, thanks for joining us on irrational fear. Hi, everybody, thanks for having me. Now, one who is trying to implement this tax and whyNoah Schultz-Byard  26:36  the state government in the budget that was just handed down last week announced in their hidden away just a couple of sentences, saying that they're thinking about looking at maybe next year, probably but we don't know what it's gonna look like yet. Implementing a special tax just for electric vehicles. We at the Australia Institute were harking back to the language of Tony Abbott and effectively calling it a great big new tax on not polluting. It's like you've got this great new technology that's coming along in Australia, we're not very good at buying them yet. We should get a lot better at buying them. If there's proper policies in place, a lot more of us would own them. We need more of them. So what does the government think we should do? We should slap a tax on it. It's a it's the opposite of what's needed as Bay Jafari at the electric vehicle Council says, you know, we have tobacco excise on cigarettes to try and you know, help people encourage them not to smoke. This is like someone giving up cigarettes, and then you're slapping with attacked, because they're not paying the tobacco excise anymore. It's craziness. We think it shouldn't go ahead. We're hoping I won't go ahead. We'll see what happens.Dan Ilic  27:50  Yeah, I happen to how does it How does it even get this far? Like how does a tax it's so dumb, get this get like, get to the treasurer's desk and get to the point where the chairs like, yeah, I think we're gonna do this dumb thing.Noah Schultz-Byard  28:03  It's a bit of a mystery. It's really counterintuitive, but a couple of the states have been talking about going down this road. Over the years. It's really counterintuitive. I say, because South Australia, along with other states have recently been announcing some pretty good electric vehicle policy. So just two weeks ago, I think it was the state government announced that they were going to roll out hundreds of rapid charges across the state. So we can have a network of electric vehicle fast charges that are also going to convert the entire government fleet to electric cars over the next 10 years. So you know, you are doing this good stuff on one hand, and then he comes budget time and PAL sneaky surprise, electric vehicle tax comes out of nowhere.Dan Ilic  28:49  So but how did that how does this tax, get it get to the Treasury tax? Like how does it even you know, where did the idea come from?Noah Schultz-Byard  28:56  So a few different. It's generally discussed in policy circles. There's one organization called infrastructure partnerships, Australia that has been pushing the idea for a while and in, in a lot of policy and tax conversations, this sort of thing comes up. It's there is actually an argument to be made for a road user charge, which is what this what they're calling this, but I mean, this is getting probably a little bit geeky, but do it. There's a whole bunch of things that go towards raising revenue. So that's car red Joe, luxury car tax, that's the fuel excise that's paid for petrol, compulsory in a whole bunch of things get you know that we pay to have cars and use the road. You could get rid of all of those things and charge people for using the road how much they use it each year, what time of day they use it. They use it when it's really busy charging more if you go into like a super busy city where it's really expensive to build the infrastructure to make that work and there's low competition to use them. Structure charge the more for that and charge everybody, you know petrol cars and electric cars across the same way if that's one way that you want to get rid of all these old taxes and charge something new or unfair? Sure, well, that's a conversation we can have. But just coming along and saying, we're gonna have an extra special new tax that will just pop on electric vehicles, you know, in Australia, point 2% of cars, or electric vehicles, and I feel like attacks on that is like putting a tax on trying to save an endangered species. You know, like, weUnknown Speaker  30:29  want more of these things.Noah Schultz-Byard  30:31  It's like going out and finding a baby club. So you and your saver, gonna pay five bucks to the government. It just doesn't make any sense.Unknown Speaker  30:37  Yeah.Dan Ilic  30:38  Which is why I burn a koala awake, just you know, just in case. Yeah,Lewis Hobba  30:44  it's so weird that this is happening in all places of South Australia, a place that is essentially owes its electricity grid to Tesla. Like it just as a giant Tesla battery. There is a man who is the biggest like one of the biggest manufacturers of electric cars, essentially in control of their power grid. And they're going, oh, let's piss off a long. Thank you. We'll go back to blackouts. he'll pull you back in blackout town satellite.Zach Ruane  31:12  Admittedly, also, it is the state that it took a crazy man on Twitter to convince them to try that. battery and they're like, all right.Unknown Speaker  31:26  What can go wrong? You don't getNoah Schultz-Byard  31:29  exactly what is glad he was willing to come here. You know, a very cool visit of South Australia will take him.Lewis Hobba  31:36  Brooks doing just getting to do another tweet that seems to beNoah Schultz-Byard  31:41  just sorted out like that. It's tough. You know, you're tweeting because solve the world's problems. I will be there in the next couple of years, I reckon on each one of us.Dan Ilic  31:48  Should I be worried about this? No, I should be worried. Should I go down to my mechanic and ask them how to convert my Tesla series three into a petrol car?Noah Schultz-Byard  31:57  We hope not. So in South Australia, the labour opposition, the greens opposition and some of the crossbenchers have already said, Well, well, this is a crazy idea and we don't support it. So this idea looks effectively dead on arrival, it can't pass the parliament with that amount of opposition. So things look good in South Australia, the big risk is if other states also start seeing this and thinking, you know, hello, hello, could get a bit of revenue out of this and start trying to implement something themselves, we hope, you know, there's been a very strong, reasonable negative reaction to this idea in sa hopefully that will discourage other jurisdictions from going down the same path?Dan Ilic  32:37  No, is it really a revenue question? Because as you say, the revenue is so minuscule, or is it something else?Noah Schultz-Byard  32:42  So in the budget papers, there's normally a lot of detail for how these policies are going to work and how much they'll make and how much it costs to implement them. There was none of that there was just a couple of sentences saying, Yeah, we might have a crack at this, we don't know exactly what it's gonna look like, or how it's gonna work. But there was a line in the papers that said, do go on, there was this secret little line in this field section of the budget, you know, you open the plastic to get to the triple X ray for separate information at the boat,Lewis Hobba  33:11  we're across.Noah Schultz-Byard  33:16  Work with fantasy for this is my nerd, you know, going deep into the data fantasy. So the secret shame in the budget document said, you know, there are so few electric vehicles on the road as it is. And over the next four years, there's probably not going to be many more anyway. So it's gonna raise stuff or money, even as it is less than a million dollars a year. So there's a tacit recognition in there, that there's not going to be an increase taken on electric vehicles, it's not going to raise much money, it's going to suppress the uptake of electric vehicles. So you know, why are we even doing it? It's hard to know.Virginia Gay  33:52  Because Lex Luthor has gotten some sort of information about electric vehicles like this is full supervillain stuff, but in a deeply data sealed section kind of way.Lewis Hobba  34:05  Yeah, I like the idea of a data filter. It makes you feel like the Delhi doctor is routing policy.Noah Schultz-Byard  34:12  Are you taking the quiz? It turns out if you're into budget paper three, you're your nerd on the nerd quiz.Dan Ilic  34:18  Noah, Rob Lucas, this set SS Treasurer said that another state is looking at it. Do you know what state is looking atNoah Schultz-Byard  34:25  it? New South Wales have said in the last week that they're potentially looking at it and a bit over a year ago, I think it was the Victorian Government said that they would be you know, willing to take a look at it. So like I said, it's definitely an idea that's knocking around people. People want to look at it. There's just there's so much better ways you could potentially go around about it rather than just slapping a blunt instrument of this tax just on electric vehicles. So we hope at least in this, the form that it's been semi announced in South Australia isn't what people decide to doDan Ilic  35:00  well no, thank you so much for being part of irrational fear tonight and I noticed you're ready for lockdown in the back of your screen. It's very clear. Look at all those board games ready to go. You've got like 15,000 board gamesNoah Schultz-Byard  35:14  one day into lockdown. I've played almost all of them the liquor cabinet is dry,burning everythingUnknown Speaker  35:22  to keep me going Excellent. WellDan Ilic  35:24  that's it for irrational vision. I big thank you to all our all of our guests. Noah shows by Zachary Ruane of Virginia gay Louis harbor. If you got anything to plug Zach, is there anything you want to kind of get out there into the world to let people know about?Zach Ruane  35:37  I haven't seen any of the crowns season four yet. I'm very excited to say what he does with that shop. Also known as Big House of fun. I really should I've been a bit cheeky You know, I've just been promoting the crown. But I need my help me known as big ol House of fun on Netflix. Think if you're a boomer and you're listening, it's like the goodies if you're young, it's like South Park. I don't care. It's like everything you love, but we itDan Ilic  36:05  isn't like Studio 10 at all. I love Studio 10 Yeah, that's a bit like Studio 10. Virginia, do you have anything to plug?Virginia Gay  36:14  I've got theater shows that are coming out next year if theater exists next year, so wear your mask and make sure I can do them. Thank you very much,Dan Ilic  36:22  Louis. You got anything to plug? Uh, no,Lewis Hobba  36:25  not really save all I'm on the radio come and say hello.Unknown Speaker  36:28  No shows spired you're gonna think the plugNoah Schultz-Byard  36:31  the Australia Institute, ta ai.org.au. It's where we do all of our awesome research that will hopefully squash things like the electric vehicle tax. Go there. Read the research donate if you want to. It's a cracking website full of really nerdy stuff.Dan Ilic  36:45  Great. big thank you to rode mics the birth of foundation going into our Patreon supporters Jacob brown on the tepanyaki timeline big contributions this week from john Brooks Rupa de Gass, Kilian, David and Maddy Palmer, Dave blow sane, and some other great folks who hang out in our Discord. Now, before we leave you tonight, we've actually heard this in trouble in America. We haven't heard from Donald Trump in a few days. He's been very quiet. But I do have a leak tape which might tell us why.Unknown Speaker  37:16  It's me. President Trump still president just calling to say that I'm not coming in today. Okay. Um, Mr. President, certainly, sir. Are you feeling okay? I'm feeling great. I'm just feeling a little bit under the weather but I'm not coming in. I'm having a mental health day. Need some me time? And that's fine, sir. Hope you get better soon. We'll see you tomorrow. No, not gonna come in tomorrow either. I don't have to. You can't make me. I'm the president. I need more me time tomorrow to Okay. Yes, sir. Pardon my asking sir, but this hasn't got anything to do with you know, the other day what what the other day? What are you talking about? I played golf. Big deal. Great game. Tremendous game. I had the highest round ever. It was huge. Yes, sir. That and the young. The election. Yeah. And that well, I won the election. I wanted I then won some golf. No big deal. So much winning. I'm sick of winning. Sick of winning. I need a day off. All right. And I need another day off tomorrow. I need some me time. All right. All right, sir. So you didn't see the Joe Biden speech on TV sleepy Joe? sleepy Joe's speech on TV. I caught some of it horrible, horrible, worst concession speech ever believe me, sir. He didn't even mention that he lost Can you believe that? What a loser. a sore loser nasty loser. He's nasty. Nasty, so you won't accept defeat sir Sure. I accept his defeat Of course I do. You didn't want Oh, yes. I did. I alternatively one by a lot. Believe me. He fake What? Sir. People are saying you need to face reality, sir. Now you listen here. My reality is great. It's the best reality there is. Believe me. Everyone else's reality is wrong. That's everybody else's is wrong. All right. All right. Okay, sir. So you're calling in sick for today and tomorrow. And the day after that, too? Yeah. What three days? Three days now actually make it three months? A bit under the weather. A bit of me time. All right, more me time than Lincoln. Okay, I gotta go back to bed now. Oh, it's so early. Oh, 11am. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you, sir.Unknown Speaker  39:47  AskTranscribed by https://otter.aiA Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🌳 IF YOU WANT TO SUPPORT THE PODCAST AND TAKE YOUR CAR CARBON NEUTRAL, WITH GONEUTRAL HERE: http://bit.ly/GoNeutral🗳️ VOTE FOR A RATIONAL FEAR AT THE AUSTRALIAN PODCAST AWARDS: https://australianpodcastawards.com/vote🎧 STAYING HUMAN PODCAST: https://anchor.fm/staying-human-pod🖋️ SIGN THE OUR ISLANDS, OUR HOME PETITION: http://ourislandsourhome.com.au/#signEach month on the A Rational Fear podcast feed we deliver long-form conversations with leaders in climate action from Australia and around the world. This is Episode 3 of Greatest Moral Podcast of Our Generation.This week we have two incredible voices.Yessie Mosby is part of the ‘Torres Strait 8', a group of Torres Strait islanders who are taking the Australian Government to the UN Human Rights Council for their lack of climate action. Which, as you can imagine if you live in the Torres Strait, is quite the existential problem. And I also chat with Sophie Marjanac, is the lawyer driving the complaint.This is a fascinating chat. If you're like me, and live in a major city in Australia, it's easy to be dismissive of sea-level rise as something that will effect other countries, other islands. Not our country.But for those in the Torres Strait sea-level rise is ALREADY putting an entire culture, an entire race under threat. It's fitting that this podcast's schedule serendipitously lines up with NAIDOC week.Big thanks also to my Bertha Fellow colleague, Linh Do, for covering the climate news up the top of the podcast with me. YOU CAN HELP — SIGN THE PETITIONYes, it's another petition! But this one will update you on the complaint, and events that are being organised to support the case. Like, December 14th, there will be an online “Town Hall” for supporters and the public to meet the Torres Strait 8. If you sign the petition, you'll be the first to be invited to sign up to the event. http://ourislandsourhome.com.au/#sign  TRANSCRIPT BY OTTER AI BELOW:Bertha Announcement  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by the Bertha Foundation.Yessie Mosby  0:04  Please help us we're here we need help. When we sit here in Ireland we sit, we sit as Australians. When we stand and we hold hands and we sing the national anthem, it states and we sing it with pride for let us all rejoice, advanced Australia fee and shouldn't that be recognised? Like we should be all you know, standing and supporting each other, being Australians. Dan Ilic  0:29  G'day, welcome to the Greatest Moral Podcast of Our Generation. Joining me is Linh Do Hello, Linh. Hey, Dan, how are you doing?I'm good. This is our third greatest moral podcast of our generation. We are making headway here. Last week's was or last month rather, was with Asha Gunzburg and Mike cannon Brookes, which I thought was pretty good. Actually. It was great.Linh Do  0:48  I had so much positive feedback. And I think so much disbelief that you and I could relay in such big talent.Dan Ilic  0:54  That's right. So Bill Gates, if you're out there, give us a call.Linh Do  0:58  We're ready. We're ready. Now,Dan Ilic  1:01  this is on the irrational fear feed. It happens once a month it is chats with climate leaders and the guests this month. Absolutely, undeniably, climate leaders, and you'll find out a little bit more about them just in a second. Before we do that, just want to thank our new Patreon supporters, Damian Payne and Philip both beads very nice of you. If you want to support a rational fear, and the greatest podcast of our generation, you need to go to patreon.com forward slash irrational fear. Another way you can support irrational fears to offset the carbon emissions from your car with go neutral for every $90 sticker go neutral by 3.5 tonnes of carbon offsets, which is about the average yearly emissions for a car and five bucks of that comes to us and you get a little sticker get to put it on the back of your car gets a virtual signal to all those other fossil fuel burning machines out there.Linh Do  1:49  It's how everyone wants to be stuck in traffic behind a self righteous person. There's you know, carbon offsetting all of their emissions. That's right. Yeah,Dan Ilic  1:56  there's people behind you. Oh, God, no, that is better than me. Whatever. I'm recording my end of the greatest model podcast of our generation on the land of the gadigal. In urination, sovereignty was never stated, We need a treaty. Let's stop the shot. DespiteUnknown Speaker  2:11  global warming. A rational fear is adding a little more hot air with long form discussions with climate leaders. Good.Unknown Speaker  2:23  This is called Don't be fried. Here heat waves and drove greatest mass extinction. We're facing a manmade disaster,Unknown Speaker  2:32  podcast, climate criminals.Unknown Speaker  2:37  ration all of this with the global warming andUnknown Speaker  2:42  a lot of it's a hoax. Book, right? A small podcast about generation for short, all right, let'sDan Ilic  2:48  get let's get straight into the climate news for this month, Victoria is going to be home to the largest battery in the southern hemisphere. Hey, you're a Victorian How does that make you feel?Linh Do  2:59  Makes me feel great between COVID locked down one of the longest in Australia and you know, proof that sometimes bigger is better. I'm super excited to be home to the biggest battery. This isDan Ilic  3:09  great. This is like a classic pissing contest between Victoria and South Australia. This one is is also a Tesla battery. But it's going to be double the size of the South Australian veterinary.Linh Do  3:19  It's all about competition. Although I have to say it's a is it lagging behind? I thought they've got their new renewable hydrogen project that's going to come online sometime soon. So I guess maybe Victoria is going to get a new hydrogen project soon as well.Dan Ilic  3:32  Everyone should have a new hydrogen project. It's like what you do in 2021? Do you know Do you know anything more about that hydrogen project?Linh Do  3:38  No, no. Well, other than it's that interesting thing where hydrogen can be renewable. And sometimes it isn't renewable as well. So I think it's important to note that this one will be renewable. And that essays already sourcing half of its energy from wind or solar, which is pretty, pretty awesome.Dan Ilic  3:54  I saw this week that solar has made up 44% of electricity in the grid in Australia this week, which is pretty amazing.Linh Do  4:02  It is it's all of these numbers that I think we rarely get to hear about when you just listen to the climate news. It's all doom and gloom, and you're like, wait, Australia, all of these things are happening.Dan Ilic  4:12  Well, in speaking of doom and gloom, the USA is out of the Paris Climate accord as of this week, but don't fret, because Joe Biden, who is of course, as we know, is President Elect said last week today, the Trump administration official left the Paris Climate Agreement and in exactly 77 days, a Biden administration will rejoin it. Now the good easy healing is that it took two years for the USA to get out of the Paris Agreement, but it only is it's only gonna take about 30 days for them to get back in.Linh Do  4:41  So for exciting party in the USA party in the Paris Agreement, it's all the good news to come. But I think more importantly than just Biden. Getting back on board with the Paris Agreement is all the plans and initiatives he has in place a $2 trillion climate plan which seems really unthinkable in Australia and hopefully that means We'll start to pick up and not be left behindDan Ilic  5:02  nerd do anything that will get you $2 trillion is if you have a sportsground in a marginal electorate, and you need a women's change room.Linh Do  5:11  This is why there are so many football fields nearly I think that now have all of these like construction works happening I've noticed during COVIDDan Ilic  5:19  this is going to be hard for the democrats coming into this because of course, climate change previously used to be something in the near future, but it is happening right now climate effects are happening. So rapidly. Extreme weather is causing so much havoc across the world and the USA, so they're going to have to really work hard at trying to convince people to do the right thing here. One interesting, big power broker, john Podesta, who is a notorious lobbyist, himself running the Hillary Clinton campaigns, he is actually joining hands with the sunrise movement to try and get fossil fuel lobbyists out of the Biden Harris White House, which is incredible.Linh Do  6:01  There's nothing like the old establishment joining with the new establishment to actually forge the new way forward. I don't think any world really wants to see just john Podesta running things or just sunrise running things. So hopefully they'll forge a new future of what's politically possible. What is it ObamaDan Ilic  6:15  says? The arc of history bends towards justice, but but zigs and zags? Is that what he says?Linh Do  6:22  It's just really one big scribble.Unknown Speaker  6:23  Yeah, it depends. He'sUnknown Speaker  6:24  drawing.Dan Ilic  6:25  Let's just touch on this Lynn jar fits given his left the front bench of the Labour Party over climate change. Finally, Mr. Call himself member for hunter has said See you later. I am out of here. There's no way labour can win. If they take up a strong climate change position, which I don't necessarily think is true. I think he's going to be eating his words in about one year's time.Linh Do  6:49  Yeah, but there's nothing like getting out of the way. I think if you're gonna be a soak about things all the time and not a team player, just get out of the way for people who are ready to do the work. So we're all for it.Dan Ilic  6:58  It fits given notoriously on the right hand side of the Labour factions. He's been copying it not only from the left hand faction, but also the right faction. Some members of parliament on the right faction of labour called him the idiot from the hunter.Unknown Speaker  7:12  Hmm.Linh Do  7:14  So many people were saying goodbye, sir. In recent weeks with all these political announcements,Dan Ilic  7:20  now, the other big news using bullshit now Adani is changing their name. Indian energy giant Danny is changing the name from Adani to the bravest mining and resources company. According to Adani, bravest means brave in Latin, but according to Latin experts, it doesn't quite mean brave Lin.Linh Do  7:43  Exactly. It feels like no one at the Adani or bravest Corporation went to a private school where if you had one of those school blazers growing up, you would know that Fortis is what means brave and courageous. So even if you'd watched anything said in that sort of Roman Roman times, but it actually means krooked to formed some sort of mercenary, I've got a very aptDan Ilic  8:04  and a new professor said it means barbarians and Desperado or an assassin, although that is absolutely delightful that you have this coal company going in there trying to pretend to be noble, but in fact, what the reality is, is that they aren't and this isLinh Do  8:24  exactly it's sort of a rose by any other name. I guess a disastrous climate project by any other name still is just as disastrous. This harkens backDan Ilic  8:33  to the time when they paid change their name in 2001, to be honest, petroleum. And I think I think it was only like four years later, they were like, let's get rid of the beyond petroleum. We don't.Linh Do  8:44  But it was like a really good payoff stop for a while. And I think anytime very sort of name changes happen. I always have to pause and check myself. Is this someone powering the company? Or is this actually real news? Or is this fake news and can't believe it in this case with the Adani situation it Israel.Dan Ilic  9:01  And one last bit of good news, a young Queensland man, Mark mcbay has made his Superfund one of Australia's biggest take the risks of climate change seriously, he took rest super to court, basically, because they weren't transparent on how their investments were polluting the world. And now rest has kind of come to this agreement that that not only they will be net zero emissions, but also the investments they have in their Superfund will be net zero as well, which is pretty interesting.Linh Do  9:28  Yeah, it's great that the good news coming out of Queensland isn't just the State of Origin of results, but also something that hopefully will Bode really well for all of the other climate litigation claims out there in Australia, these lawyerDan Ilic  9:40  David bond and we've had on rational fear in the past. You may remember David Bandon from irrational fear when he was putting together class action with teenagers suing the government for their future. Now he's gone done this rest super case and coming up, he's got a case where he's taking to court the Commonwealth equities, basically saying that you No, you can't buy bonds in Australia, because Australian bonds are going to be worth nothing because climate catastrophes are going to wipe us out.Linh Do  10:07  Yep, yep. And I think it's, you know, it gets a little bit nitty gritty and in legalese and can feel a bit boring. But I think the precedent that they set is really important, not just for those climate litigation cases, but what every other Superfund in Australia now has to do, regardless if they claim to be ethical or otherwise, because no one wants to be taken to court by one of their members.Dan Ilic  10:27  You're absolutely right there. And I think this is a big win for David bond. And I think like he said, in the last year, he's had three big cases come to the front and setting precedents for all those things. I think there are really quiet people out there who are just chipping away with their own power to make things happen. And I think people like that are pretty extraordinary.Linh Do  10:46  Exactly. I think, if you will, Superfund hasn't yet divested from fossil fuels. Definitely. Now is the time to write them a quick letter and say, hey, look at what's happening with breast suepo. What are you going to do in response?Dan Ilic  10:57  pS, if you want to do an out of court settlement, My phone number isyou're listening to the greatest moral podcast about generation. So for today's good book, I speak with two people who are at the front of a legal and existential fight for climate action. Yes, he must be and Sophie marjanovic are taking the Australian Government to the United Nations over their willful neglect of human rights due to their lack of climate action. It's two interviews one after the other. Yes, he was on the phone from his home in mastic, which is also known as York Island. So it's a bit crackly and I caught Sophie first thing in the morning in London, so it's quickly for another reason. We both have a tide. Yes, he must be is an artist and craftsman who lives on massive Island, so called York Island. In the corner of the Torres Strait. Massive is a remote teardrop shaped coral cay island that is closer to Papua New Guinea than the Australian continent. It's a tropical paradise. It's home for Yes, his family and they can trace their history on that island for thousands and thousands of years. But this fragile place at the top of the Torres Strait is disappearing, the land is slowly being washed away by rising sea levels. And yes, he and his family, the land is everything. It's their culture, their religion, their library, their encyclopaedia, it's their town hall, it's where they've stored their stories of their family and their ancestors for over 60,000 years. And in the last couple of decades, they've been losing it bit by bit. So for YesI this fight is purely existential. And as Australians wave let him down, as well as being an award winning artist. Yes, he is also the power plant attendant of the island. And I had a chat with him a couple of weeks ago, as he was walking to the power plant to get the generator running. After a few minutes of small talk, I just leapt into the big questions.Can you remember the first time you ever heard of the idea of global warming or climate change?Yessie Mosby  13:08  Back in the days in the 90s? We didn't understand about it and none of the elders here in the village. Understand that. And back in the days, we were told, like Wait, wait, we stand on the beach, they would tell us like this needs to be the bush and the island needs to be right right out there is the beach. It's been taken away and eaten even in the 90s even in the 90s you'reDan Ilic  13:33  recognising that land was being taken away from you?Yessie Mosby  13:39  Yes, but not as not as now like when when I mean land has been taken away like a metre would be taken away in a year or so. And gradually it's been washed away. But now I'll give you an incident about April month last year. We've seen in just in that one day we seen three metres taken taken away just in in a matter of hours. Oh my god and we've seen we've seen our home washed away and we see no ancestral remains to be take like the sea was taking our ancestors remains out our genealogy online is has been washed away some we try to save some we could not save. Two years ago I was my wife line. My bloodline my wife's bloodline me and my case. We were running down on the beach and helping families to pick up my wife thing sixth generation My wife is and picked up a remains tried to save what what we called her but the second emendation took her oh myDan Ilic  14:43  gosh, that must have been pretty stressful. How are you feeling on that day? What what kind of thoughts were going through your your brain and your heart on that day?Yessie Mosby  14:53  Looking at that like looking like on that particular day? automatically like you it was it was Like, it's a must, you have to do it, and stuff like that. Otherwise, my children won't see, you know, their bloodline or their ancestors, practically, if it wasn't for her, they wouldn't be here today. It was like, a fight for trying to save it from Mother Nature. But Mother Nature, practically took us a night and took all of the remains. It's it's like a whitewash now out from our line each way, you know, where you could go and say, and identify a loved one and, and tell our children like this grant, great, great, great grandmother here. This is what she's for you. And you don't we don't have anything there now to go and say this, this is your grandmother, like she's not there anymore. It was tough in a way to explain to the kids because like, you know, no kid should be walking in picking up the ancestors remains, you know, they should walk on the beach with their family and pick up shells and stuff like that.Dan Ilic  15:58  I can't agree with you more.Unknown Speaker  15:58  Tell me aboutDan Ilic  16:01  growing up in the 90s. And how back to that moment, you're talking about how folks didn't quite understand what was happening. When did you you personally notice that things were changing in the environment around you,Yessie Mosby  16:12  personally, personally, it started here in 2000, when I moved back out, and I realised that when we had some scientists coming out, and they were predicting about, we most probably will be, will be have to be relocated, and stuff like that. That's when it got me thinking now and had my thinking caps on and said, Well, this is not like, you know, it could be stopped in a certain way. Yes, and that's what driven me to understand. And to go a bit deeper into understanding that what's happening now, there is, you know, there is something behind that, which is causing all of this. So it wasn't like through my through the 90s. And stuff like that we weren't so much educated in about in about climate change, and global warming. Yeah.Dan Ilic  17:04  So how did you learn? How did what were the things you did to kind of learn and how did you share that knowledge with others?Yessie Mosby  17:11  Well, we had a lady she used to work here, she became a good friend, and she's not a part of her life. She's a part of our clan, now part of our family and, and she helped us I really well, personally and asked, but I really need to know more, I want to know more. Because it was out of fear. I was fearing about my children and their children after them.Dan Ilic  17:33  What kind of role did she have? Was she a teacher? Or Was she a scientist, soYessie Mosby  17:38  she's a lawyer, a lawyer. And she used to work here in the tourist rate. And she looked and understand that we didn't understand being so remote out from mainland Australia and living so in such a remote area, she noticed that we knew what was happening. But we really didn't know what was the cause of what's so she started to give us a witness. When the scientists came out. Now, that's when my eyes opened and stuff like that. And the field struck me. What year was that? She was here like five years ago. But I really practically sat down with her to know and gain more knowledge about all of this see what's happening two years ago, right. And when she was here, she was here and witnessing right at the same time, because all the airlines had to be shut down. No planes could fly in and no planes could fly out. So they got stranded here. And while they were stranded here, they've seen exactly now what we face every monsoon season. Is that, Sophie maronick. That's, that's correct. Yes.Dan Ilic  18:45  So 2016, she came out to the Torres Strait to check it out and have a look around. And only a couple years ago, that's when really a major education kind of process was happening with people that live on the island. On the islands. It feels like all of a sudden, you've been hit with something that is unexpected, whereas a lot of other people around the country probably knew a lot more. It must be must feel really strange to learn something that a whole bunch of other people you knew about, and must feel rude that no one ever told you about it.Yessie Mosby  19:23  Yeah, we always asked people to come and invite like we've invited the government to come to come to our island to have a look for their eyes and look what we what we see every day the changes in the life life, how it's changed dramatically. The field which I still even still today have is we don't want to be refugees in our own country. We have a right to live in Australia should be a country which should be so proud that Australia is the only country in the world who has totally two different race of indigenous People who live on the country which has been over been here for over 60,000 years. Yeah, title and blues one is like an amputation within the Torres Strait people because what like when I was talking earlier in how the blood connections and how are we connected to the other neighbouring tribes, and stuff like that, and to lose an island within them probably next 30 to 50 years is devastating. And it's, it will affect people even more mentally, physically and spiritually mushy. The beautiful thing about my home, the aura around this island, it welcomes you, when you fly around my island and you come down to land. The island welcomes you before you even touch your foot on the island. And when you walk here, this whole island is sacred to us because our our ancestral remains is scattered right through this island. This island is not only an island, which provided us with shelter, protection and food and water. It's our library. It's our school. It's a maternity ward. Our grandparents got no gave birth on this island. We felt Well, our families on this island, our whole language, our genealogy, all I need is played and based upon this island. And not only the people living here on Laci, but also the families who, which was married out and blessed. other islands around the tourist illustrate who have blood connection back to this island. This island is love. This island is powerful. AndDan Ilic  21:49  it's it's sacred. It's at home. What kind of conversations are you having with your families and friends about climate change right now? Like what what do you talk about?Yessie Mosby  22:02  We always talk about every time when it comes to the full moon time when it comes to the peak of the king tides. We talk about a lot, especially when the Wind Rises and stuff like that. It's it concerns, it leaves great concerns to us. Yeah. And we always talk about like, how can we try and save what we have? And how can we try and preserve what we have now from further inundation and further erosion?Dan Ilic  22:31  How does it feel to know that your people are not necessarily responsible for climate change yet your people must be the first to immediately adapt and change yourselves and your culture. Because of it doesn'tYessie Mosby  22:48  make you angry. It makes us feel like you know, it makes us feel like little kids were like little kids where they you know, get they being neglected. They being child abuse. That's what we feel, right? We're feeling because we know contributors to what's happening now. But yet we are the first ones to get the pain. We're the first ones to get caught when we're suffering. Yeah.Dan Ilic  23:14  Does it feel lonely in that same respect?Yessie Mosby  23:17  It feels lonely in this respect here because when we cry out, we're not being heard. Yeah. We're trying our best and we're trying to go through every like we know the saying that like, you know, when one door is closed, there's many more will open. So we are running now and trying to open every single doors and seeking help. The funny thing is our forefathers, my both of my grandfathers. They joined the army to fight for the country, all of us and with our forefathers, our grandparents. They've all contributed so much to Australia to the government. And yet they were still fighting in the backyard and trying to get like you know, recognises they're like, like, please help us we're here we need help. When we sit here in Ireland, we sit we sit as indigenous Australians, we sit as Australians, when we stand and we hold hands and we sing the national anthem. It states and we sing it with pride for let us all rejoice advance Australia fee and shouldn't that be recognised? Like we should be all you know, standing and supporting each other? Being Australian YesI.Dan Ilic  24:37  I want to know about this un project. Tell me what are you doing about taking the Australian Government to task of climate action at the UN? How does that work?Yessie Mosby  24:47  First of all, we invited the Australian Government to come up to our home to to to to have a look in what we're facing. He refused our invitation which made us go For the further, like I was saying earlier thatDan Ilic  25:04  our voice is not being met with singing up for help, the only thing we want is to reduce all the ammunition, the thing for the mining and stuff like that, by reducing them, it'll give us a better chance to live longer here on our island. And this is why we're taking the next step to the UN, it must feel so unfair that a one group of Australians can profit off the missions that are going out. And yet, your home is literally being taken away from you because of it. And because of other people around the world. That just must feel so unfair. so unfair.Yessie Mosby  25:46  It's so unfair, it's just like we're running around screaming our heads off. And only only our only, like, you know, only we are hearing her own voice.Dan Ilic  25:56  Tell me more about the United Nations project. How did you develop this ideaYessie Mosby  26:01  really made us to go down this path because of the Paris Agreement. And we said like, if there's not gonna like things, if the government's not gonna respond to us and stuff like that, this is where we're gonna go. So we see elk. And the lady Sophie came up and said, she would love to help us and support us in this.Dan Ilic  26:22  Great and where are you now? what's what's the, what are the next steps with this project?Yessie Mosby  26:28  The next step now is if it's like a waiting game, but it's most probably gonna be next year, the COVID-19 is playing a very big part, which now is like, actually, like a waiting game.Dan Ilic  26:40  You don't have a lot of time to wait,Yessie Mosby  26:43  no. As as you're waiting, where, where we're looking at a home, getting eaten away? Have you met other people around the worldDan Ilic  26:52  who support your cause?Yessie Mosby  26:55  We we've met through like, zoom link up, and a lot of feedback we get from the petition of violence at home, we have big more like support which, which from our mother's mother country, Australia, and throughout the world, as well, to see that they are supporting us is like, you know, lift us up more?Dan Ilic  27:22  What are the young people who lives and work in the Torres Strait? How do they react to climate change? And what are their views about the future? Are they hopefulYessie Mosby  27:34  for them, like when we when when when I sit and talk to other other young youth here on machine, they look at the future, there's no sunshine at the end of the tunnel. They just living life, as we live life now and trying to save what we can. The great fear of their means. having their children living down on mainland Australia, who don't have the sacred connection back to country,Dan Ilic  28:03  the sort of that must make you feel incredibly disconnected,Yessie Mosby  28:07  big time, very, very much become disconnected. What we what we practice, in our traditional customary laws won't be the same if we're going to be trying to practice in our, you know, traditional culture somewhere else. It's going to be loss of connection to our country, to our culture, and our like likelihood,Dan Ilic  28:30  if worst comes to worst, and you have to move country. Do you think there is hope to rebuild culture?Yessie Mosby  28:36  I don't know. Being a cultural person myself. I've grew up around very strong cultural upbringing. And I can see that it's not going to happen. At this moment. Our families who resides down in mainland Australia we have a we have the cultural link which connects them back to country.Dan Ilic  28:59  What about see you? Yes. A what hope do you have a about drastic action that this government will take in the next couple of years?Yessie Mosby  29:07  I'm believing in faith. And I know that the Australia government will eventually act upon their words and help us. I really don't want to go down in the negativities and think about negativities. But you know, every, every now and then negativities, come come into my mind. But I'm trying to stand on positivity and try and think positive about the outcome would be great, and it will be a success. And our home will be saved.Dan Ilic  29:38  YesI thank you so much for joining us on irrational fear. And thank you so much for sharing your story about Messick. It sounds like a beautiful place and I hope one day COVID will be over and we can come and do a live show in the Torres Strait for you.Yessie Mosby  29:54  It wouldn't be such a blessing if us could come up and use you use will be much more welcome But we will we will be holding a big feast for you. Oh, well,Dan Ilic  30:05  if I, if I get to come up, maybe I can. I'll tweet Scott Morrison from Torres Strait Island and tell him I'm there and he can come up toYessie Mosby  30:13  it would be great.Dan Ilic  30:15  You know who you know what would be great would be, it'd be great for you to build a house for Andrew bolt. beachside, a beautiful house and call it the Andrew bolt house and convinced Andrew bolt to move to first to move to Messick. And so he can see what a beautiful place it is added. So you can you can be convinced that climate change isn't happening.Yessie Mosby  30:45  I'll probably try building a leaf house, a traditional house. So you have a full insight in how we live.Dan Ilic  31:00  It's such a stark kind of reminder, when you're talking about singing the National Anthem, and being Australian, and having a culture that is so unique and separated from the homogenous Australia we all consume in the big cities. It's such a precious thing that you have that I feel like so many people don't realise that we have it together. And I it would be such a shame to to lose it because we were being ignorant and and we ran out of time. And we just decided to burn more coal instead. Yeah. What is the best way that people who live in so called Australia can support you? What is what is something everyday Australians who are living in capital cities? Who probably don't think a lot about the tourist, right? Yep. how can how can they support you?Yessie Mosby  31:54  We have a website, which is called our islands, our home.org. And you just type that in Google our islands, our home.orgDan Ilic  32:08  there is a petition, it'll only take you a minute to to sign a petition. But by your signing of the petition, we'll save an ancient race of people to be refugees in their own country. Your support will save a race of people we could stay and still seeing from our own soil advanced Australia fee. It's a privilege to talk with you. It's a privilege to share your story on on my podcast. And I want everyone who's listening to this to encourage them to go to the our island our home webpage and put their name on the petition and let that group of people know that that your voice is important as well. Yes, he Thank you so much.Yessie Mosby  32:54  Thank you. You have a blessed day.Dan Ilic  32:56  That was YesI moseby. Lane, have you met any of the Tara stripe complainants before?Linh Do  33:02  Yes, I have had the good fortune of meeting some of the terrorists right eight before and hearing the story. I think just as you were saying, it's always a reminder of how sad the possible climate impacts could be in this country where some of the first refugees will say will be some of our First Nations people, but also still really hurtful and inspiring to say how they're taking legal action. They're doing what they can, and it's up to us not to feel pity for them. But actually, how do we stand in solidarity is always the question I have in mind.Dan Ilic  33:34  Yeah, and how can we value this culture more and recognise that Fuck, like, we could lose an entire race of people, an entire culture will disappear if we don't take action.Linh Do  33:48  Yeah, it's really I think, unnerving to actually be reminded of that. It's just very, a combination of like, humbling and eerie. And just a real reminder, this is the good fight that we're all trying to embark upon right now. And how do we step that up?Dan Ilic  34:02  It's really interesting like talking to him, he he's about my age. And it's it's kind of funny, like he's on a learning journey with the science as well as you know, someone like me, and he's but his flight is so much more existential than mine.Linh Do  34:16  Yeah, and it's so much more confrontational as a result, right. I feel sometimes even though you and I, we live in brave climate, we can go to bed at night and be like, cool. Okay, that was it for the day. I'll wake up again tomorrow. But when it's hanging over you like that? I think it just permeates into absolutely everything.Dan Ilic  34:33  Next up is Yes, he's lawyer. So if you imagine Nick, who's the one that's been putting together this landmark human rights complaint at the UN for the tar stride, this is Sophie. Tell us about the first time your entire stride and why you were there.Sophie Marjanac  34:47  So I first went to the Torres Strait in 2010. To work as a paralegal in Native Title law, so land rights law, and meant that as part of my job, I was lucky enough to fly around to each of the outer islands of the Torres Strait, and get to know the communities. And it's such a beautiful and magical part of the world, I feel really privileged to have been able to experience that. So I was lucky enough to be able to go fishing and swimming on some of the beautiful coral reefs, and even got used to the crocodilesDan Ilic  35:22  and your work when you were there as a paralegal, can you kind of explain just the day to day, what was that about?Sophie Marjanac  35:29  So basically, we represented the island is in any negotiations relating to their land. When anyone wanted to develop anything on Native Title land, we would represent them in relation to that. And also working on Native Title claims themselves, such as the Torres Strait regional seaplane, which was the first Native Title claim over sea territory and say, country in Australia. Wow.Dan Ilic  35:57  Can you remember the first time meeting? YesI moseby? AndYessie Mosby  36:00  what was that like?Sophie Marjanac  36:02  Yeah, of course, I can. Yes, a is just an all around legend. When we first met, he was put forward as the representative for asik Island by some of the elders. And I'd say that's because he's got such a real passion for the culture and traditions. And he's very young. But he knows so much about the cultural history of his family, and takes the responsibility of being a young leader really seriously.Dan Ilic  36:29  When we're talking about climate changes. Yes, he was saying like, when he was first kind of noticing what was happening, he, everyone on the islands was was noticing the effects of climate change. But I didn't understand why it was happening. You were one of the people that kind of helped them understand how this was happening and why it was happening. Can you walk us through that moment? Like when did you start kind of letting people know there about climate change and how the earth was changing?Sophie Marjanac  36:55  So we visited the islands in late 2018 and early 2019, and conducted community consultations. And we also conducted an analysis of the legal options for the communities and discuss that with them. It was really hard to go through the scientific evidence with them and talk to them about the real risk that the islands are facing in in the coming decades.Dan Ilic  37:25  When I was talking with the SEC, who was saying that the first step in this journey that they're on at the moment was to invite the Commonwealth to Messick to see the land be washed away. Can you talk us through that invitation? Who did you invite? And when did you invite them and what was it like to try and get people to Messick?Sophie Marjanac  37:44  So that invitation was was actually personally delivered by cafe cafe. Tammy is one of the claimants he's from wherever Island, which is just next to massive Island. And he actually went to New York for the climate conference in September 2019. Last year, and he personally delivered the letter to the to Australia's High Commissioner to the United Nations, in New York. And the Prime Minister did eventually respond several months later, but declined the invitation to actually go up.Dan Ilic  38:18  said no said I'm not going to get a message on they're gonna have a look at this is Ireland, a washed away?Sophie Marjanac  38:24  I think, honestly, if he did go there, and I really do believe that if anyone went there, I mean, you just immediately get what this is about, which is, and you can see why climate change is a human rights issue. Because you understand how deeply connected those communities are to their country, that connection must be experienced on those islands if the people and that's really the fundamental basis of the case is that if the people can't be on their island, and that's a fundamental break with their culture, and with their lives with dignity as indigenous peoples,Dan Ilic  39:01  I just want to go back to that letter. How did that decision get made to invite the prime minister to Messick or to Tara strike? And can you talk us through the steps that you and locals there we're going to going through to kind of get this plan in action.Sophie Marjanac  39:17  Throughout this process, we've been working with Gbk which is the good Alberta route Cod, which means warrior place and that is the peak body for the Native Title prescribed bodies corporate in the Torres Strait it's it's translates into English as the Torres Strait sea and land Council. So the board of Gbk has been clear that even though the low lying islands are most well are affected, and are leading the way in this case. They're doing on behalf of the whole region, which is which is affected in different ways. The letter we worked with GVK to prove the text of that letter and Kobe took it to New York where he was invited to speak at a conference on human rights and climate change with young climate, and environmental activists from around the world and lots of indigenous people from around the world as well.Dan Ilic  40:14  So a few months later, the federal government said, we're not going to come visit. Oh, Scott Morrison said he's not gonna come visit. What was the next step for you in that in that case?Sophie Marjanac  40:24  Well, to be honest, my focus is on the legal side. So I'm, I'm, I'm the lawyer. The island is Gbk. And we've partnered with Bri fifty.org, Australia who are assisting the communities with a local campaign. They are running a website and a petition and various social media accounts, and really trying to work with other grassroots groups and getting some cross indigenous solidarity, which I believe is going quite well. But my focus has really been on working on the case, and bringing those human rights arguments to the UN Human Rights Committee in Geneva, and attempting to we hope, make a new law on this topic, because this was this is the first case where these issues have have come so squarely before the committee. And we think it really is an excellent test case, because these islands are some of the most climate vulnerable in the world. And Australia is such an outlier. And such a laggard when it comes to global climate policy. I mean, unfortunately, Australia, Lee has performed far worse and many other rich countries that the policies are simply way behind. And I believe that's quite clear from the evidence. So we're hopeful to have a good decision, no matter what the decision is, I think it really will set a precedent of some kind. And we're hoping that the Human Rights Committee will preferDan Ilic  41:56  it. And how long do you think this process is going to take? Like, what point will you get an answer from from the UN?Sophie Marjanac  42:05  I suspect that they will make a decision next year. And we're very hopeful that that it's gonna be here rather than later. But of course, these processes do move relatively slowly.Dan Ilic  42:18  And what are the actual ramifications first for the Australian Government, if the UN comes down on the side of the Torres Strait Islanders and in the people of Messick and I mean, Australia has a long history of ignoring the UN is, I guess, is kind of what I'm saying. Yeah. Are there any other any actual ramifications? Will there be a reason to be compelled to, to change the way they go that climate action,Sophie Marjanac  42:43  I think the Australian Government does have a terrible record in relation to complying with decisions of the human rights treaty bodies, however, other states around the world do comply with those decisions. And so I think it does have the power to make a difference globally, and not just for Australia. And it also will mean that mean, it will clarify the law and move the jurisprudence forward, and I think really give the claimants and their communities a huge moral victory. They want people to know about what's going on on their islands, they want to tell the world about that. And they want their fellow Australians to see how precious the Torres Strait is and how that that connection, that cultural connection is at risk. So I think it's an opportunity to show the Australian public not only that Australia is really behind when it comes to climate change action on the global stage, and have that authoritative decision on that, but also, to show that these are this is the cultural heritage of all of us of our country. And that's what's being lost. And, you know, similarly to what happened recently NWA, there was quite an outcry over Rio Tinto decision on the jacket gorge. And we're going to see far worse cultural destruction of cultural heritage. And as I said, that belongs to all Australians. And that's really a tragedy.Dan Ilic  44:04  What do you think there's such a disconnect between someone who has lived and worked in Taurus, right, why do you think there's a bit of a disconnect between the tar strait islands and, and mainstream Australia?Sophie Marjanac  44:14  Well, practically, it's quite, it's very far away from most Australian Capital Cities, and it's really quite expensive and hard to get to. So I think that does put travellers off. So that makes it very special, because it really is. It really does take quite a bit of effort to get up there. But um, there are lots of toe Strait Islander people in Queensland especially. But I think, you know, Australia is generally relatively segregated still, and I don't think we've really recovered from the truth of our history. You know, we don't really see many indigenous stories are in the mainstream media, and in TV and newspapers, which I think is a real shame.And probably a real barrier to thatDan Ilic  45:04  that connection. And how do you think we can bridge that disconnect? what's the what's the best way to kind of tell this story?Sophie Marjanac  45:12  I think all for me, I think, you know, the media has such a huge role to play. And, you know, really just bringing in bringing those bringing those stories out and having people here and really understand what's happened to what what's happening in Australian history, obviously, education as well, in schools, I don't think that there's that much focus digitus history. Yeah. But then I think, you know, as a lawyer, to be honest, fundamentally, we need a constitutional change. And I think, you know, what happened with the older restatement from the heart was one of the worst tragedies on travesties of Malcolm Turnbull's Prime Ministership. I think that was just disgusting, the way that that if it was treated many indigenous leaders who worked so hard on that all the restatement from the heart, and it was, you know, a moment to actually create real change, I don't personally don't think we will have true reconciliation in Australia until we change the constitution. Constitution. And that is essentially a treaty that sets up the fundamental building blocks of our nation. And that is, that is what we need to do. And I think I don't think we can move forward until we've had come to terms with the past. And that's the basic truth of reconciliation is you have to, you have to be honest about the past. And then you have to come together and decide to walk forward together into a new future. And I think that's what we need to do.Dan Ilic  46:48  As someone who's based in London, and you know, you you work all over the world, how do you explain that pain to people around the world that Australia has? How do you explain how backward we are all the time?Sophie Marjanac  47:02  Well, I left constitutional law. So I think I go back to I go back to the fundamentals, which are that the legal system has always been systemically racist, quite frankly, and systemically as undervalued and devalued indigenous culture, and that, I think, permeates through our whole society, unfortunately, and and it it, it fundamentally, is not that recognition in our governing documents and in our, our way of seeing the history of our countries. And then I think that that that means that people discount indigenous history and people unfortunately, and that's carried through into everything, culturally,Dan Ilic  47:51  in this project you're working on right now, what are the crucial timelines, time markers that are coming down, that will be met? And when is it I guess, when is it a good time to make a lot of noise about this? This particular case,Sophie Marjanac  48:09  with the government will, the Australian Government will respond in a few months time, probably four months. I think that probably when we get the decision, we really want that to be amplified as much as possible. But as I said that the island is working with 350 dot org, Australia, and they've got quite a lot going on. Now. They're doing various activities, I believe, three Queensland, obviously COVID has been really tricky. The toe strait islands are pretty vulnerable. And so they they do need to put their health first and avoid too much trouble. But we are doing lots of things online. And I think if if people are engaged, then they could write to their local MP, especially if they live in Queensland, and really just talk to their friends and relatives about climate change and about this case, and about how climate change is putting at risk, one of the oldest continuing cultures on Earth. But in terms of timing, your question was on timing, but I'd say probably, February ish will be a moment. And hopefully we'll have the decision. I hope in the third quarterof next year. It's really tricky for me, so I'm sort of licking my finger and putting it in the air and but around about the third quarter. Hi,Unknown Speaker  49:34  yeah. What about you? WhatDan Ilic  49:35  for you? Who your heroes in this space? Like who do you look at and go? Damn, you know, what they've done in the past is great, and I'm a big fan of their work. And I'm trying to do that.Sophie Marjanac  49:49  I think probably my heroes are the political leaders and elders in the toe shape who are constantly working so hard in this system that set up against them to get their voices heard, and The needs of the communities heard by government. And especially I mentioned that earlier a statement from the heart but all of the work that went into that, and the indigenous leaders who, who came together to to build that I think that was really impressive and, and such a huge achievement.Unknown Speaker  50:21  GM pu. Great, a small podcast of our generation. Well, thatDan Ilic  50:25  was Sophie. Thank you very much, Lynn, for joining us on on the greatest moral podcast of our generation.Linh Do  50:31  Always great to be here.Dan Ilic  50:32  And big thank you to YesI Sophie and Jacob round on the tepanyaki timeline. Plates if you like the show chippin on Patreon patreon.com forward slash irrational fear. Right now though, I have got a sneak peek of a new podcast called staying human. It's a podcast designed to put the moments we're living in right now in perspective, life is hard because we're living through a dehumanising pandemic, we need to take care of ourselves and each other. And it's all about what humans need to get by. It is hosted by a humanist chaplain at Harvard. His name is Greg Epstein, and I had to listen to it. It's pretty good. So I've got five minutes for you to have a listen to. If you enjoy it, check out staying human on your favourite podcast player. Thanks a lot. See you next month or next week on irrational fear. Thanks, Linh.Unknown Speaker  51:18  Hi.Greg Epstein  51:19  When I dropped my son off on Tuesday, March 10, I had no idea that the world as I knew it was about to change forever.I barely remember our morning routine now. The one from before, my wife would rush out the door by accident daycare centre opened at 830. But we struggled there around 945. We did something different every morning. I'd wrap him in painters tape, and we'd sing to me to the tune of Aha. He'd climb on my knees and we'd play jump the shark. We got obsessed with YouTube videos of Russian excavators stuck in quicksand. It was the first consistent, conscious experience of unconditional love in my adult life. And it was slowly starting to make me feel human in a way I never really had before. On March 10, I dropped him off, and I pulled out my phone to check Twitter on the way home. Harvard just gave students five days to pack all of their things move out and go home, read the tweet. Many can't go home because of costs and travel restrictions and they provided no guidance. And we're expected to go to class for the rest of this week. That was a keen senior computer science major from Jamaica. I'd met him a few months earlier, after a thread he tweeted went viral, a beautifully self aware vulnerable reflection on possible racial bias in the ways computer science faculty sometimes engage with students like him. Hakeem is a gifted writer. He is a passionate and compassionate young leader who turned a bad experience into a platform to fight for thousands of other students who might not be so able to fight for themselves. So it crushed me to think if even he can't cope with the situation, stranded shut down, afraid, unsure what to do next, much less how to manage the pressures of college, then how are others going to manage not just at Harvard, but all across the country and even the world? I responded without my typical overthinking, Hakeem, this is what chaplains and other advocates are for. If it's virtually impossible to go home, then you or others in your position will likely need to ask to stay. If anyone at Harvard gives you any crap about that whatsoever. That is when you call somebody like me. My name is Greg Epstein, and I'm the humanist chaplain at Harvard and MIT. That's like clergy for atheists, agnostics, and the non religious. I've dedicated my life to helping people for people sake, in good times, and in times, just like this. Anyway, responding to hikkim I continued, let me or others be your advocate with Harvard administrators or faculty who need to hear this student is not going anywhere. Because they can't, so you must provide safe and comfortable living spaces and extensions etc must be provided to deal with this stress, no ifs, ands, or buts. As hundreds of thousands of people like door responded to hikkim thread, I was shocked to see them also respond to my response by the thousands. This made me cry, responded The Daily Beast Smalley Jiang fast, an influential writer whose mother's influential writing influenced me as a teenager, doctors, actors, scholars and dozens of random strangers stop by on my page to comment or say thanks, but all I done was send literally a couple of tweets. The truth is, the reality of the pandemic was setting in and we all wanted we all needed to cry to cry our faces as one distinguished philosophy professor friend of mine, but we were all looking for some human kindness myself included in the face of a restless and ignorant virus just beginning to end millions and disrupt billions of lives.Transcribed by https://otter.aiA Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🌳 If you want to support the podcast and take your car carbon neutral, with GoNeutral here: http://bit.ly/GoNeutral🗳️ Vote for A Rational Fear at the Australian Podcast Awards: https://australianpodcastawards.com/vote Thrilled to have Zali Steggall MP on the podcast this week. On Monday, November 9th, she sends her Climate Act to the lower house. You can support the act by signing up with 88,000 other Australians who want to see action on climate change: https://join.climateactnow.com.au/Also we're joined by musical comedy TikTok star Gabbi Bolt, award winning writer comedian Sami Shah, as well as Lewis Hobba and me (Dan Ilic).Thanks: Big thanks to The Bertha Foundation, our Patreon Supporters and RODE Mics. And post-producer Jacob Round.TRANSCRIPTION FROM OTTER.AI Unknown Speaker  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by the birth of foundation.Unknown Speaker  0:04  Guy Lewis, how are you?Lewis Hobba  0:06  Good Daniel, how are you? I'm good, what could possibly be stopping me from being as good as I've ever been?Dan Ilic  0:11  Nothing in the news in particular. First of all, I wanted to say a big shout out to our new Patreon supporters, Damian pine and Philip boothby. Thank you so much to everyone who joins us on Patreon because it helps us make the show every week. Another way you can support a rational fee is to offset the carbon emissions of your car with a go neutral sticker for every $90 sticker go neutral by 3.5 tonnes of carbon offsets, which is about the yearly emissions for your average con five bucks that comes to us. I should make a point handy, Louis that the owners shouldn't be on the individual. We need to get big polluters to pay for the pollution. But before we do that, boy, it feels nice to just drive around knowing that my emissions are offset, and I got a little sticker that to virtue signal to all of my other people on the road.Lewis Hobba  0:57  Right? I ride a scooter. So if I go neutral that will cover me for like, two lifetimes.Dan Ilic  1:03  You're totally fine. You're totally fine. Yeah. Also no St. Louis. This is a big announcement. And a big thank you to everyone who listens to the show, because on the weekend, we got nominated for Best Comedy podcast at the Australian podcast awards. So thank you very muchLewis Hobba  1:18  the last time we lost that award. We lost it on the night of the last Australian election. So if you recall, we were all sitting in the crowd just watching our phones the whole time going. I this us winning or losing this award is less important than the other winner loss happening in the country right now.Dan Ilic  1:34  Yes, that's right. I totally forgot about that. We are up against some good people though. improv tunes. A couple of comedians called Hamish and Andy. I've never heard of him, Matt dalla and Tony Martin sizzle town and Alfred's dragon friends featuring your Triple J colleague, Michael King. What we know is king beats us.Lewis Hobba  1:56  Honestly, if I lose to Michael King, I'm gonna have to quit it. I bet Yeah. I feel like sort of like Trump about a week ago. And he was talking about job and just being like, I'm gonna lose to that guy. That guy? Well, I can't lose my, my pride won't allow it.Dan Ilic  2:10  We need your help as well go to Australian podcast awards.com forward slash vote and vote for us and the people Choice Awards. And if you do, Lewis and I will read out all 3000 of your names.Lewis Hobba  2:21  I mean, sure. It's a it's a it's his new podcast. We're starting. Lewis and Dan ratings. I'm recording mine. But that isDan Ilic  2:29  actually that's just every other podcast that does like Wikipedia. True Crime stuff. I write out Wikipedia entries. I'm recording mine of a rational fee on gadigal. land in New York nation. sovereignty was never seated, waited a treaty. Let's start the shark.Joe Hockey  2:43  A rational fear contains naughty wordslike bricks cambro.Unknown Speaker  2:49  Gum, and section 40 of a rational fear recommended listening by immature audiencesDan Ilic  2:56  tonight. In the Queensland election, one nation suffers the most humiliating decline since Pauline Hansen's descent down the road. And Gladys berejiklian promises to open the New South Wales Victoria border by mid November, and millions of Melbourne Knights promised to warm up back up again. And researchers have discovered that November is the longest month of 2020 and they haven't even seen December 28. This podcast was recorded on the fifth of November at 8pm. If you're listening to us from the future, we want to say we're sorry, the world is a scary place. That's why you're listening to irrational fear.Welcome to irrational fear that gives you the scared a sweaty hand to hold on. I'm your host Dan Ilic former spiritual adviser to the President. And this way, we've got some great fear mongers she's a writer, performer and musician and proofing even though you live in the Central West of New South Wales, you can make a big on Tick tock, it's Gabby baltzUnknown Speaker  4:01  Hello, Gabby. I'm gonna go on my graveDan Ilic  4:03  you've blown up on Tick Tock writing oz Paul musicals Has anyone given you a sponsorship endorsementUnknown Speaker  4:08  yet? No. All I've received is a flag from 2007 in the mail from good old Kevin rod is nice. A friend of kin is very nice. Yeah, I've got got him in the camera roll and everything. But yeah, that's all I know other political donations please in the pocket ofDan Ilic  4:24  rod and he's a former and told mentor of the Taliban. It's this Saturday is Saturday six semi shot. Can IUnknown Speaker  4:32  semi?Sami Shah  4:32  I just want to make it clear that the Taliban and I have mended fences.All find ourselves.Surprisingly they are in agreement with me about a lot of things they like watching repeats of low you know or binge watching the wires are knocked down. They love listening to ambi sound podcasts as well as different ambient sounds.Overlap turns outDan Ilic  4:57  Sammy, can I ask you this in American democracy Slowly breaking down. Do you have any advice for Americans on how to live with a military code? Oh, look. Okay,Sami Shah  5:05  so the first trick is you have to have an assassination plan in place. All right. So in in 1988, we had to get creative. We had a dictator for 10 years. At that point, we knew something. So we filled a crate of mangoes, explosives, and put on a plane and the plane exploded because the mangoes exploded. So you got to the bottom, like no one's getting in a library with a rifle anymore. That ship doesn't work. Alright, so the other thing you have to understand is dictators aren't that bad, you know? They build statues. Everyone gets a job in statue building in the baby high growth industry all of a sudden, if you torture you are this is the buyer's market. All right, so you really need to own up those skills. No.Dan Ilic  5:57  And finally, he's the permanent guest of the Australian podcast Award nominated comedy podcast irrational fear is less How about Hello, Dan? Yeah,Lewis Hobba  6:05  I'm also Amy Shandy.Dan Ilic  6:08  Coming up. member for maringa The Honourable Sally steggall MP. She joins us to talk about her massive work coming up. Also, we want to ask her what it feels like to bake Tony Abbott. Figuratively of course. But first, we have a sponsor.Russell Crowe  6:24  Good eye on Russell Crowe. In Australia, we lucky we live in a peaceful democracy with universal health care, and VBA. But others around the world aren't so fortunate. They live each day with no access to doctors education, and are forced to drink filter coffee. Their cities are mired in civil unrest. Their people are threatened by local militia with both fashion sense. And to make matters worse, they don't have sweet chilli sauce, Americans, but for just $1 a day, you can sponsor an American at globe visions adopt an American programme will pair you up with an American in need, and will build cafes in their neighbourhood that serve non processed food and flat whites will send a doctor that will both bill and distribute pharmaceuticals that they won't have to sell their house to receive. And each month you'll get a photo of your American and they'll send you a ballot for a vote that they want to cast, but couldn't because they had an outstanding parking ticket or moved house on Thursday or some other obscure bullshit. So given American Samoa and a decent chance that a good espresso, it works. I've been part of the Australian adopter Kiwi programme and look at me. I'm Russell Crowe. Very good.Dan Ilic  7:41  It's a worthy cause. They're excellent. There's a lot of stuff going on in the news. I don't know if you notice that James Packers crown could lose their casino licence in New South Wales. The the largest battery in the southern hemisphere is coming to Victoria. But there's only one story everyone's talking about. Yes, boy, George is going to be recording a Christmas song with Delta goodrem Oh, MJ, what do you guys think? No.Joe Hockey  8:04  way he should.Dan Ilic  8:06  Now we're talking about of course the election as of recording right now. We don't know who will be President Biden is only about six electoral college votes away from winning. But by the time this podcast comes out, who knows maybe the next president knighted states could be Eric Trump. We don't know. The counting continues. The protests have started their parties everywhere from Michigan to Portland and even in Maricopa County, in Arizona fear mongers. I'm gonna play you a grab of some of these protests. And I want to I want you to tell me who is protesting and what are they chanting and Gabby has thankfully made us a theme song for this. So let me play that asUnknown Speaker  8:42  well. Here we go. Sometimes they're happy. Sometimes they're ranting, let's play who is protesting and what are they chanting? Very good.Dan Ilic  8:51  Okay, guys ready to play? All right. First up, here we go.Lewis Hobba  9:10  Stop the stop account.Dan Ilic  9:12  Yeah, they asked they are they could be yes. Perhaps they are indeed some of them are saying stop the count while the others one or the other sayUnknown Speaker  9:19  a count all the votes. count allDan Ilic  9:21  the votes? Yes, they are. They are and who are they Trump Biden supporters.Unknown Speaker  9:26  Support Yes.Sami Shah  9:29  inconsistency. Yeah. But only because that level of that level of inconsistency can only come from one side of the political divide, which is a drop of water. They are very much the standard themselves as well, not knowing that the shootings on the back.Unknown Speaker  9:44  Yeah, I can relate there like when I was in year 11 and 12. I was protesting mathematics as well. So I mean,Sami Shah  9:51  as the only known, I mean, the technical term is non white. Over here right now. All the supporters All protesters on both sides of the aisle are all white from the footage. Yeah. Is this a cultural thing that I don't understand this like the, the application of for mayonnaise or the love of DNA testing like white cultural thing the I guess,Lewis Hobba  10:17  actually sorry I think this is proving the point of so many white supremacists for so long, which is that not all white people are the same. Some white people want to stop the counts and stuff. I want to keep the counts going. You know, where diverse people with diverse interests.Unknown Speaker  10:30  just seems like a sequel to Eat, Pray Love, just shout. get angry, contradict each other.Dan Ilic  10:37  Let's play the next round.Unknown Speaker  10:38  Sometimes they're happy. Sometimes they're ranting, let's play who is protesting and what are they chanting? Alright, roundDan Ilic  10:47  two. Here we go.Gabbi Bolt  10:56  Are they mad at Fox?Dan Ilic  10:58  Fox but who is mad at Fox? Trump's mad at Fox. Okay. Okay, so Trump supporters are mad at Fox because they are protesting. These Trump supporters are at the Capitol. They're protesting because Fox made the call that Joe Biden was gonna win Arizona.Unknown Speaker  11:18  We don't like the news.Unknown Speaker  11:21  You know what? That's not even a joke. That's just pretty much that tagline.Unknown Speaker  11:24  No more facts. No. Yeah.Sami Shah  11:27  Apparently, there's a story that apparently is like it's an inside source thing, but that Trump got angry. He called up rupert murdoch and yelled at him about the Arizona account. And what Murdoch didn't back down. And it's trouble in paradise. I mean, this is the most magic breakups in Miley Cyrus and Hemsworth thought like this is as much of a heartbreaking like you think some love would last forever, but clearly nothing mean dating just bullshit oneUnknown Speaker  12:02  day after he endorses the petition to a that would be the next step. Yeah, yeah. Trump on Twitter being like sign this petition I'mUnknown Speaker  12:09  reallyDan Ilic  12:10  gonna be signing on Monday straightaway. Finally here we go.Unknown Speaker  12:16  Sometimes they're happy sometimes they're ranting let's play who was protesting and what are theyDan Ilic  12:22  chanting and finally this oneJoe Hockey  12:28  is covering up the fight crime family steal this election is covering up.covering up we will not free up for the world. He was not free of Joe Biden is covering upUnknown Speaker  12:42  his election. He's stealing their that.Dan Ilic  12:46  Okay, so who is he? What is he channelling? I think it's Nick. Naughty. I think Nick naughty is trying to get an Oscar forLewis Hobba  12:57  Oh, Gary Busey. As big busyingSami Shah  13:03  tonight, can I just say, at the heart, I've never agreed with the T shirt more. I've never had barbecue beer freedom has ever I've noticed most seen done by that T shirt.Unknown Speaker  13:17  Nothing is more attractive.Unknown Speaker  13:21  Nothing is more attractive than that.Lewis Hobba  13:22  So it's also it's a fourth of July top and I reckon that guy has probably been wearing it since the Fourth of July and really enjoying the be a part of that show. My favouriteUnknown Speaker  13:32  part about that video. I saw that video earlier today is definitely the guy giving the press conference maybe waits a solid three beats for the guy to just slowly walk back in the building, and then just kind of turns around, and he's like, Alright, moving on. Do you just expect chaos like that? America just they waiting for everyone that yell at that press conference.Lewis Hobba  13:55  He The problem was he wasn't expecting everyone to give him his freedom. Like he was waiting to get tackled or grabbed or something. And he's like, Oh, no, it appears the third part of my shirt was already allowed.Unknown Speaker  14:07  I guess I just walked myself out.Lewis Hobba  14:09  You feel his head back to this barbecue.Unknown Speaker  14:13  Listening to a rational seer.Unknown Speaker  14:16  This is an embarrassment to ourJoe Hockey  14:18  country. We were getting ready to win this election.Frankly, we didn't win this election. By theDan Ilic  14:25  time this podcast comes out, you probably already know who's president we can we can only tell you things that we already it's that guy. It's theUnknown Speaker  14:32  radium shed guy.Lewis Hobba  14:33  I've already reached across the aisle. He's like, what's three things we can all agree on.Dan Ilic  14:39  So in the last couple of days, what we've seen is Trump declaring that he's one only if people stopped counting, Biden managed to flip four states Trump managed to flip out he's got so bad that Kanye West sent every American a hologram ghost of their dead democracy. Even former Australian ambassador to the United States and alleged treasure for sale Joe hockey got in on the action saying the vote was right. In Washington, DC, this is him on Ben forums programme earlier this week.Joe Hockey  15:05  The other 10,000 different organisations that are responsible for setting the rules for the US presidential election 10,000 in Australia had the Australian Electoral Commission, thank God that governs the rules for federal laws for federal elections in the US are 10 every state, and then you have counties and you have cities. And if there's a strong bias one way or the other, they do everything they can to either suppress the vote, or to to, you know, to increase about it's just it's a mess.Unknown Speaker  15:38  So there's a chance that electoral fraud has happened.Joe Hockey  15:42  Oh, for sure. I mean, it will be but the question is whether it's enough to change the election. And I doubt it is, but But yeah, I absolutely. did. I last thought, in Washington, DC 93% of the city voted pejabat 93%. Even my best booth and launderable. God bless him. When the kids were handing out to the Labour Party. Even my best booth, I got 83% 93% in the city. I find it hard to believe soUnknown Speaker  16:18  he finds it hard to believe. Wow, ILewis Hobba  16:19  gotUnknown Speaker  16:20  it honestly, in Washington.Lewis Hobba  16:22  Yeah. And it honestly feels like at the for the first part of the interview. He's reading a pamphlet that he's just found out there. He's just picked up a place He's like,Unknown Speaker  16:31  do you know they have counties? Yeah.Dan Ilic  16:34  Joe Joe, Joe? Joe hockey on TGV sounds like a guy that's just listened to a lot of American political podcasts and it's just trying toLewis Hobba  16:43  Yeah, he's your friend. He says like,Unknown Speaker  16:47  my favourite thing is him not considering that a candidate can get higher than 83%.Lewis Hobba  16:52  And also, like, the history of that is like, no democrat has got under 90% in 15 years, like Hillary Clinton got 91 Yeah, Obama got 92% it just like that. You're that you're out diplomat to that country. And every like, everyone knowsUnknown Speaker  17:09  that shit.Joe Hockey  17:10  What is wrong withSami Shah  17:12  me, but that's not that's not accurate. Here's me, Rick. Ricky forgetting he wasn't our diploma. Reese told him. He was our ambassador to America, reduced anxiety. That was supposed to be his, you know, he is sentenced to his Guantanamo Bay to go there and never come back. I don't know how he got back here.Lewis Hobba  17:36  Maybe you'd have called Getting the plum position in America failing upwards in like any other generation, except this one where you are like, Joe thinks this is the population. We're sending him to the apocalypse.Sami Shah  17:51  Yeah, there are people right now, who are the ambassador to Syria who are like, Oh, my God.That waslike about your hockey. All right. And I do like one thing about your hockey is that Joe hockey is actually just a random factor that i don't know i have in my head, but he's actually a Palestinian Armenian. So he's not actually a white guy. And his real name. I'm not making this up. You can look this up is Joe, aka Dorian. But they changed it a hockey to improve his chances in the family's Johnson's in resettling into him in Australia, Joe hockey domian had been running for politics. He would be in the Green Party right now. In the seat of Brunswick, orthe ambassador to America and Sammy, that'sDan Ilic  18:43  the only reason why he was only treasurer, he would have been Prime Minister if they'd said it if they change the name to Joe cricket.Sami Shah  18:54  They did offer it to him apparently, at one point Tony Abbott did asked him if he wanted to be the leader of the Liberal Party and john said no, because he wasn't willing to give up on emissions trading. This is a true story. I don't know why I know this much about Joe hockey. All right, I do. But this so there's a few things about him. He you know, he's actually a Palestinian Armenian. He almost became the liberal Liberal Party, and he thinks no one can be more popular than him when it turns out that's actually pretty common in the world.Lewis Hobba  19:25  When you're literally chased out of a country for being a reviled treasure with one of the worst budgets in living memory, like and people likeJoe Hockey  19:33  me, it's whileUnknown Speaker  19:37  is everyone who knows me knows I want to make it perfectly clear to the community. I have evil in my heart.Joe Hockey  19:45  No Fear is rational.Dan Ilic  19:48  Final fear for this week, Georgia democratic organisers are calling out people to go to tele rooms to cure ballots. Fear mongers, when you hear the term curing ballots. What do you think that means? just leaving them for several months in a brine.Unknown Speaker  20:06  Exactly what I thoughtSami Shah  20:09  when you put them in Brian is when youDan Ilic  20:12  pick Oh, yeah, let's pick a balance everyone wrong. Yeah.Lewis Hobba  20:17  Right. Oh, of course, of course God.Dan Ilic  20:20  Now here's the thing if a ballot has a mismatch mismatch signature or the signature is missing on the ballot, it could be tried out or people have forgotten to sign the back of the return envelope will fail to get the witness to fill out their witness information correctly, the ballot could be completely thrown out. So what's happening is volunteers are being asked to go down and sit in a room and call everyone who voted and made a made a mistake on their ballot to rectify this ballot. It's an elaborate process, they've got to sign an affidavit and fax that affidavit in or mail or send that affidavit in with a copy of their driver's licence to get that ballot revalidated. It's like so much paperwork, if you make one little mistake.Unknown Speaker  20:59  I barely passed the HSC. I don't think I could Miss America.Lewis Hobba  21:05  America's filingDan Ilic  21:08  this week is also strange for another reason in US politics, one that affects us. The United States has formally lifted the Paris Agreement this way three years ago, Trump pulled out which is normally a good thing when he pulls out. But sadly, it undermines this really important work. Our next guest was elected on her green credentials. He's a barrister, Olympian, and independent member for ringu zali. steggall. Oh, am MP good izombie. Zombies absolutely are privileged to have you with us this week. And because on Monday, something incredibly important is going to happen. And I can't help but feel like once again, it's kind of been overshadowed by the moment we're living in right now.Zali Steggall  21:50  Well, yes, and no, I actually picked it on purpose, because I figured we were either gonna be in a good place worldwide in terms of climate. And we could reverse the decision that Trump took in terms of pulling the us out of the Paris Agreement, or the rest of the world's got to get skates on and counter the impact of the US going road when it comes to climate. So either way, our second Monday, the ninth isn't really important day for us to put a plan in place and get on with lowering our emissions.Dan Ilic  22:22  Tell us from the very start what is going to happen on Monday? And what what how do you think it'll go?Zali Steggall  22:28  Sure, I will look obviously, as an independent, I'm actually came into parliament, mainly to try and actually stop the weaponized you know, debate we've had in Australia around climate change and put forward a sensible plan down the middle. So I tried to bring bipartisanship to this so that we can actually help plan so I mean, producing legislation that is in it's actually conservative UK legislation that was passed in the UK, but with bipartisan support, so completely no reason why coalition can't accept it here. And actually, the UK Prime Minister is calling on the Morison government to getting to get on board with the same commitment of net zero by 2050. So the legislation is coming on Monday to the parliament present to you. There'll be a fair bit of stuff around it, my fellow crossbenchers will be speaking on it. And I've invited the prime minister to to actually take the lead and you know, actually be the leader striving needs him to be at the moment.Dan Ilic  23:25  That's very generous of you. Haven't there been any examples where he's done that? And the last little bit that we can say,Zali Steggall  23:33  we're looking for start around 20 with the bush fires? Oh, you know, I'll give you that. I wasn't very impressed with that part of it. But look, during the pandemic we have we've seen the Prime Minister Singh premiers, stand up with the scientists give us good factual justification for policy and it works and the Australian people have overwhelmingly complied. I mean, apart from a few people protesting we've really had whole of society, getting on board with the measures needed. And we I reckon we're leading the world in terms of how well we've done economically and health wise, on the pandemic side,Dan Ilic  24:06  it's amazing what can happen when you listen to a bunch of scientists who actually know what they're talking about.Unknown Speaker  24:11  Wow.Zali Steggall  24:13  You have a policy based on facts and science. And we know with climate, we need to do the same thing as what we did with the pandemic. The pandemic is a tiny taste of what's to come with climate if we don't get our act together. So it is a perfect time for the prime minister to step upSami Shah  24:30  your luck closer to the Prime Minister than I will ever get to be so I have no knowledge of this. Why is it that if you know a pandemic scientist is one that finds believable, but a climate change scientist is one that you find that he can't trust in just like a Shia Sunni thing?belief system.Zali Steggall  24:53  Obviously, one of the horrendous things yeah, 2020 has been challenging on so many fronts, but it has seen shift towards accepting science. So I think the Prime Minister has to stick to the game we set the path on the cut on the coronavirus pandemic, we need to do the same on on our missions, we need to flatten the curve on our missions. Let's get down to net zero. And then we will feel safer.Lewis Hobba  25:16  Do you think that I mean, the bushfires were so awful. And a lot of people who have been looking for climate change solutions for so long, I've been worried something like that would have would have to happen before anyone, obviously on a, you know, conservative side took any kind of action. And and no one wanted that to happen, obviously is devastating. And but you know, has it put politics into a position where you think the Prime Minister might be, I mean, either willing in generously or politically, if you're a ungenerous force due to the fact that he his reputation took such a pounding when he disappeared to Hawaii, that he might be sort of forced to really act this time.Zali Steggall  25:58  Look, I think I'd be a mixture, you know, I really hope that he is the leader, that, you know, he has the opportunity to be and step up to this and bring everyone together. I acknowledge Not everyone can agree on this. But we've got a really sensible pathway forward here. And you've got the rest of the world joining in, you know, the UK, Japan, South Korea, France, Germany, it you know, the list goes on, that's committed to net zero by 2050. We don't want to be missing out. We don't want to be behind our trading partners. We need to be on top of this now. Is it going to come there but grudgingly behind the ball? Or does he take the handbrake off? And he put us ahead? That's the that's the challenge. And at the end of the day, is how do you want to be remembered as you know, the power of this parliament and as the Prime Minister, we've had a pretty big year already with 2020. And ultimately, this is our biggest challenge. So I'm still hopeful to build consensus, you know, I'm not the opposition. I'm an independent, my job is to try and bring people in the room. And so that, you know, try and bring people that are a part two together for a solution.Sammy, I think you either agree orUnknown Speaker  27:06  Jane.Sami Shah  27:09  No, I absolutely, positively agree. I just want to change the topic briefly for a moment, because I don't know when I'll ever get a chance to ask you this is so when you retrieve the sword from the lake and lunge into the chest, check offyour armour.Unknown Speaker  27:34  Thank you, Sammy. That was actually my next question. That wasZali Steggall  27:40  funny enough, during the campaign, we actually I had to match tiny on his sporting prowess. So I have both participated in the cold classic swim we both in the local runs. And he actually released a team of bodyguards did while the local five k runs and beat me to the finish line. And they were claiming that I was going to be the big wind. So but little did he know that I was saving it really for the big race, which was the important one.Lewis Hobba  28:09  Yeah, Tony ever, it was always of the belief as a leader that he could run around the country that would justify his ability to run it.Dan Ilic  28:16  Some people, some people who may be uncharitable might say, what's the point of an independent backbencher? throwing this in the ring and getting this into parliament? Why don't just get to fade it in? Everybody moves on? What do you say to those people?Zali Steggall  28:29  Well, with due respect, the major parties haven't really gotten this this so far, you know, they're kind of, they keep using the issue of climate as a way of trying to beat the other side. And they only really look at their own self interest. We know 80% of Australians are concerned about climate change, sit over 60% want us to commit to net zero by 2050. Labour labour, you know, they say that they're committed to it, but they don't really have a plan. And the liberals know and the coalition know they have to do more, are they under threat from a lot of areas like orinda that want more action on climate change. So I think I am the perfect person to bring it forward. And actually said, This isn't about one side winning over the other. This is actually about the Australian people get to win. So my call has been for all of society to get behind it to get business, get industry and get health care environment groups, everyone to come forward and ask for this solution with I think Australia has had enough of the climate walls. We want 2020 to be the year we all move on. like totally,Dan Ilic  29:29  and it's so transparent to say that particularly on state levels all around the country. And it's so weird just to have this outline of the Federal the federal coalition just doing f all and it's so it's just so it's it's so frustrating to see this. It's so frustrating to see the lack of leadership when everybody with the tail is wagging the dog in Australia, like the local governments, the state governments, the corporations, they're all they're all doing what they can and yet there is no formal action plan. From the It's so strangeZali Steggall  30:01  to see who you think is the towel say I think the tail wagging the dog is actually that kind of ends. And, you know, the fire Queensland and rays are hanging on to fossil fuel industry in their electorates. And there are only one or two votes. And it's all the others that are following this kind of with call from these outline and pace. So I think that's a towel that we need to get rid of so that the dog can get on with the job.Sami Shah  30:26  And someone is not a politician, you know, because that's not the background, the people in Parliament, most of the people in Canberra, this is all they do. This is all they've done the young people when they were teenagers, because they have two losers. And this is Bob they followed. It is weird. Is it like? How do you adapt to that culture, you know, as a civilian and a normal human being a functioning adult prior to this? I think I was functioning.Zali Steggall  30:59  I have had moments where I've been quite astounded by what happens in Parliament and the way some people behave. And when I think that these are the people that are making the laws that are going to regulate everyone's life. It's quite astounding. But look, there are some good people component on both sides of the aisle that have in life experience. But if you could then curry politicians or people that have only had experienced through the party machine, and they have to have a career outside politics. I think that would be a good thing.Dan Ilic  31:30  Like sports soon as they get an injury. They're off to Melbourne.Zali Steggall  31:37  Yeah, if you're doing a job application, yes.skills.Dan Ilic  31:43  Well, Sally, thank you so much for joining us on a rational fee. Good luck on Monday, my friend Melvin directed a great little ad to promote the climate change act last week, and I think went out last week. It was very moving. It's a beautiful ad. I'll share it in the in the show notes. When we put the podcast out. It's just a kind of gripping cinematic piece that somebody trapped within the fires trying to write a letter to their MP and it's just, it's just heartbreaking. I know Melvin and I was messaging my my my wife was messaging him throughout the throughout that period when we had bushfires, and he was actually him and his his family were trapped in fires. And it was I think all of us were so shocked by that moment in January, that that was a wake up call that we needed and sadly COVID came through and wiped out the momentum for it but I don't think it's gone away. I honestly think honestly, I think people are still engaged with these issues and want to see action on this issue. And I think you have such a huge backing. And I just wish you luck.Zali Steggall  32:44  Thank you. Well, I need you guys and everybody out there to get behind it.Lewis Hobba  32:48  every vote counts. If you can do this, Sally, we will get all that Patreon subscribers to donate $1 will melt down those dollars and we'll make you a special gold medal. Rational peace.Dan Ilic  33:01  We want to thank you very much at least before we go Gabby has written us a song to see us out. It's about time I have it that happened this week. MeGabbi Bolt  33:10  basically Yes, the Melbourne Cup happened this week. And I I've never really supported the Melbourne Cup much in my life ever. Except when I was six and I wanted the pony. But I saw that another horse died this week sorry this is sounding old very Simpsons funeral mochi. But I went and wrote this song so I've come up with a solution. I've come up with a solution that I think will please literally everyone, sports lovers, arts people, broke students like myself, everyone's happy with this so I hope you hope the government somehow hear this and hear me out. It's shameful to think as a nation we drink and celebrate the Melbourne Cup. We place all our bets hold back champagne intense while a horse coughs up along televised in disguise to the nation as a classy and fancy occasion. But instead of a whole scopes competition, here's what I'm thinking, Oh, why don't we just race the spec Titans. Check him on the Flemington track. Let them keep their fancy fascinators if they run the whole lap, I want to see you know rail who's missing his shoes and Darrell who's on his 12th glass of booze step up to the plate something nation to race for the Melbourne Cup. And I'm not saying we should change the whole damn thing. They'll still be real monetary stakes on who we think we should when school kids will dress up because they dedicated we add a spare cup to the most neighbour. Yeah. I mean, I'm not one for sports. But one thing I know I watch the shit out of that show race the spectators make them run for the big prize and if someone's breaks a leg that aren't have to be euthanized. Time for an equine intervention bringing in a new kind of athletic content. I think it would be more fun for the spectators to run in the Melbourne Cup. Yes swap the horse hooves for heels make the rich really squeal for the Melbourne Cup yes say no to horse cruelty cuz the spectators should beUnknown Speaker  35:32  very I feel very passionate about it just off of the climate change act goes live on Monday I'll bring in my rich people should run the funding contract.Dan Ilic  35:42  Jingle for climate change. Evie has got you. Please thank Gabby both Lewis hobas semi Shah zali steggall Thank you very much everyone. Do you have anything to plug Gabby? You wanna plug anything?Unknown Speaker  35:54  I have music from two years ago on Spotify. Very useful. I it's okay. That's there. But apart from that nothingDan Ilic  36:02  follow Gabby on tik tok and Twitter semi Shah Do you ever need to plugSami Shah  36:06  my comedy albums are still on this Alisha? [email protected] you can buy those if you were searchingDan Ilic  36:14  zali steggall I was feeling I know what you're gonna plugZali Steggall  36:18  he could go the climate now.com donate you both in support the climate act.Dan Ilic  36:24  Excellent. And let us How about what are you plugging?Lewis Hobba  36:27  a Nazi Russia I'm on holidays next week. On the show. I guess I'm just plugging yam but I'm going to Yeah, you're never been there. You're in Yeah, but say hello.Dan Ilic  36:37  big thank you to ride bikes, the birth of foundation go nutro Our Patreon subscribers Kilian David David bluestein Maddy Palmer our discord community for a great chunk suggestions this week also want to thank Russell Crowe roupa de gas, and of course our post producer Jacob round of the tepanyaki timeline Until next week, there's always something to be scared of. Good night.Transcribed by https://otter.aiA Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/🌳 If you want to support the podcast and take your car carbon neutral, with GoNeutral here: http://bit.ly/GoNeutral THIS WEEK'S PODCAST:We check the receipts for Senate Estimates, get into branding with NIXVM cult, and celebrate Kim Kardashian's Birthday in a totally normal way.We also talk with Senator. Lidia Thorpe about the sacred grove of Djab Wurrung trees that are being felled to make way for a highway duplication. To express your anger at the destruction of 800 years of Djab Wurrung culture, and therefore Australian culture, email your local Victorian State MP. Here's a few to get you started: Dan IlicLewis HobbaConcetta CaristoZoë Coombs Marr Senator. Lidia ThorpeZoë is performing at the Two Queers Festival at Giant Dwarf in November. Get tickets here. https://giantdwarf.com.au/events/zoe-coombs-marr/Thanks:Big thanks to The Bertha Foundation, our Patreon Supporters and RODE Mics. And post-producer Jacob Round.Unknown Speaker  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by the Bertha Foundation.Dan Ilic  0:05  Oh, hello Lewis.Lewis Hobba  0:07  Hello Daniel. How are you?Dan Ilic  0:08  I'm well and well have things in your neck of the woods.Lewis Hobba  0:11  Correct and I don't know if you've heard 2020 my year. I'm okay, I'm having a no right time all things considered.Dan Ilic  0:19  I know it's a it's a rough time for all sorts of people. But we'll get into that we've got a podcast to discuss those sorts of things. We want to thank our Patreon supporters who have jumped on board this week, including Chris Kohler and Tom crean again, if you want to support us on Patreon you can head over to patreon.com forward slash rational fear and not just a way to support irrational fears buy two carbon offset the emissions of your car with a go neutral sticker. For every $90 sticker go neutral. We'll buy 3.5 tonnes of offsets which is about the yearly emissions of a car and five bucks that comes to us. I've got it I've got a little sticker on the back of my car people think oh, well that 2000 Carolla that's, that's covered. That's good.Lewis Hobba  0:58  It's the only bloody thing about the show. That is neutral. All right, dad.Dan Ilic  1:04  Yeah, fuck you, ABC. We're taking positions for left wing inner city lefties. I'm recording my end of irrational fear on gadigal land in your nation's sovereignty was never said. We need a treaty. Let's stop the shark.VO  1:17  A Russian mafia contains naughty words like bricks cambro gum,and section 40 of a rational fear recommended listening by immature audiences.Dan Ilic  1:30  Tonight after 112 days Melbourne has eased lockdown restrictions However, some hipster cafes have remained closed to be ironic. And water is discovered on the moon but it turns out it can't be used for anything as it's already owned by Angus Taylor. And in just under a week, the season finale of the United States of America is on who will get fine that week. I'm excited. It's Halloween 2020 or as we call it in Australia book quake. This is arrested Oh fair.Hello, welcome to rational faith. I'm your host former sexy nurse Dan Ilic. Let's meet our fear mongers for tonight. She's a comedian improviser and radio broadcasting from Sydney her 2019 festival showed loose one so much critical acclaim that it got picked up to be part of the 2020 bats festival at Gryphon theatre company which probably got cancelled, after organise realises that she was a little tireless, just because of COVID-19 is Kanchana Christo.Concetta Caristo  2:37  Oh my god. Hey, it's me. The cancelled woman. Good to be here.Dan Ilic  2:44  She's the multiple award winning lockdown special having jewel personality performing hyphenated hyphenating. It's a privilege to have the double barreled Triple Threat herself. Zoe combs Ma.Zoë Coombs Marr  2:55  It's Zoe knowledge, actually.Unknown Speaker  3:01  reputation. Really? You know,Zoë Coombs Marr  3:07  I am waiting to be congratulated before it really happens all the time. I get confused. Like, I love you on the checkout.Unknown Speaker  3:15  That's not me. That'sLewis Hobba  3:19  crazy.Dan Ilic  3:25  And he is one half of wedding magic act pen and haba it's Louis haba. Wow. Oh, myLewis Hobba  3:31  God. I was thinking the other day. I want to go and get my like,Unknown Speaker  3:37  matchingLewis Hobba  3:38  my Nike glasses. No. No, I want to go and get ordained so that I can marry people. All right, because I emcee a lot of weddings and a lot of friends weddings. I just happen to you guys, as people who talk in the market price for family you get asked to me every wedding. Plus I can sometimes DJ weddings. So if I can do the marrying? I'm a one man wedding band. Wow. Wow. I'm actuallyConcetta Caristo  3:59  I'm trying to get my magic lessons so thatLewis Hobba  4:02  I really feel about the magic ofDan Ilic  4:05  coming up a little later on. We're gonna be talking to Senator Lydia Thor about the directions tree stuff that's going on in Victoria. It's very sad stuff. We'll be talking with her a little bit later on. But first, let's hear a message from our sponsor.Vladimir Putin  4:22  Fellow I am American friend Vladimir Putin. These unprecedented times require some president. So me President of Russia is encouraging Americans to vote president of USA. I know how dangerous election season can be. I was only candidate in the Russian election who didn't have horrible accident. So it's important to pick someone who's a strong man standing for you. That is why I endorse Joe Biden. Not because he's strong, but because Donald Trump will default on long and I will finally get me universe Belgium at a very cheap price. Of course, if you were good American patriot you may do opposite of what I say I don't give a fuck. USA is fun to watch burn down. And Vladimir Putin and I approve this message.Dan Ilic  5:18  The first fear this week it's the most magical time in politics. It's senate estimates happy senate estimates everyone, I hope you're having a fantastic set of estimates. This year, this is where we thought you bless you.Senator. Lidia Thorpe  5:32  with you. Also with you have yourDan Ilic  5:34  part of Senate estimates is cut is like taking a whole bunch of receipts and throwing them at your friends. Yes, bless you, bless you. It's where we find out just how far public servants will go to protect the ministers from scrutiny. Last week, of course, we learned that you can get a Cartier watch by simply working at Australia Post and doing a good job. This week, we learned that our first submarine could be launched in around 37 years. Yes. The new subs are coming and they're gonna be coming about when the iPhone 49 will be released. Yes, it's very exciting. Incidentally, the iPhone 49 will have an inbuilt submarine. So you know, that'll be redundant. The subs gonna cost us $90 billion. The iPhone, iPhone 49 will only cost us a billion dollars. So you know, you do the math. fishmonger's doesn't bother you that these new submarines that we're building today won't be working in our waters until it's 37 years.Concetta Caristo  6:31  No, actually, because I spoke to a psychic this week. And she said that in 2015 it's gonna be a really good time for me. So I think that it's like actually a good time for the submarines and for me, and so that's sort of why it's happening. So I'm really stoked about it. Yeah.Lewis Hobba  6:45  And are you an Aquarius?Concetta Caristo  6:48  Aquarius. I'm a Libra. So no, no,Unknown Speaker  6:53  not a water sign today.Concetta Caristo  6:55  Thank you so much. I lied. I'msorry. I'm being such a politician right now. Sorry,Zoë Coombs Marr  7:03  Leo. I feel like I feel like 2015 is going to be a pretty good time for submarines, because we'll all be underwater then. Anyway, but it's sort of I'm like, that's 37 years. I'm 36 that's like if someone when I was born went like, and for the birth of your child, we shall give her a floppy disk. We're still working on it. And she'll get it just before like she'll get it just before she turns 40. And the technology may be obsolete but Oh, what a floppy disk.Unknown Speaker  7:39  It's ridiculous. Like it's gonnaSenator. Lidia Thorpe  7:41  That's it? It's gonna be a worst submarine ever. Yes. ButLewis Hobba  7:47  if it is Waterworld will apply it out Tommy perfectly. Like if you No, no, it would be like Australia is a desert. They don't ready. 36 years Suddenly, a giant like polar ice cap crashes. The flood comes your flood to a 36 year old submarine. It's a dream. We're all watching episodes of Seinfeld that they put on when they started. It's good news.Dan Ilic  8:06  It would be it'd be it'd be great. And I think people should, you know, we should go through some sort of constriction or conscription or some lottery to get on those submarines for when the end of the world is happening. That'd be great. There's 12 submarines and you know, they could go underwater forever. It'd be great to be on them.Zoë Coombs Marr  8:20  Honestly, what are they doing? Like nothing takes that long, like nothing takes because I say when you like make something it's like you can be it can be fast, cheap, or good. Like you can have two two of those. But not three, like this is slow and expensive and baby. Amazing. LikeSenator. Lidia Thorpe  8:41  the best thing ever.Concetta Caristo  8:42  What are they doing? I know what's that thing in sex where it's like you. You like do it a little bit a little bit. Little bit. So the climax is huge. What's that cold? That's happening people. Ladies and gentlemen, we are edging with some submarines. Yes, every love is gonna blow so hard when they release.Lewis Hobba  9:01  A bunch of segments just sitting there going.Dan Ilic  9:10  I believe in the Navy. It's called overreaching? Yeah, you're breaching? Yeah. Not as cool. As cool. Not as cool.Lewis Hobba  9:17  Because they're building them in South Australia on that. Yeah.Zoë Coombs Marr  9:21  Thank you so long.Lewis Hobba  9:25  My theory is they just using it to store a bunch of South Australian wine in 36 years. I'll just open the hatch and be like, aged and delicious.Dan Ilic  9:36  Surprise. Well, you know when this when the budget was first floated, it was around $50 billion. And then earlier this year blew up to 80 billion then some sometime between the beginning of this year and senate estimates it's blind out another 10 billion to $90 billion. I I can't help but think that we are all in the wrong guy.Unknown Speaker  10:00  dollars.Dan Ilic  10:01  That's a lot of dollars. Yeah.Concetta Caristo  10:03  It just made me think about you know, when like, a kid's done something wrong and then your parents like confront you. And you tell them little bit by little bit and the details just get more and more. It's like the problems getting worse. It just was like that. It's like now 50 all sorry, actually, I meant seven. No, it's actually at 100 million $2 billion. So sorry.Dan Ilic  10:21  It does sound a lot better if you are trying to threaten another country because $50 billion submarines doesn't cut it. But like if you tell China well, China, we've got some hundred billion dollar submarines. Stay away from now your radio.Zoë Coombs Marr  10:33  They only have 37 years to catch up.Lewis Hobba  10:41  Sorry, a couple of years ago about that Danish guy who murdered a person on his homemade submarine? No,Concetta Caristo  10:48  no. And why not?Lewis Hobba  10:51  It was maybe like 2017 or 2018. He was I think he was Danish. He was an inventor and he murdered a journalist cut up the body and spread it across the ocean came back in and it was like, Oh, she tripped and fell. And okay. Anyway, he's in prison. He tried. He met he escaped from prison. This week, he got out. And then they caught him and brought him back. All I'm saying is don't put him back. Bring him to Australia getting building submarines. You'll have them whipped up in a week.Zoë Coombs Marr  11:20  And she tripped and fell. You feel like for an inventor he'd be able to come up with a better excuse.Unknown Speaker  11:27  Minister, can you tell me when we will finally have all 12 boats operation? mid to late 2040s in the 2040sUnknown Speaker  11:35  nice in the 2050s as I say no? Yeah.Unknown Speaker  11:39  Okay, I'm sad. I'm telling you that. I'd say 20 5020 5072 the answers 2057 it says quote the seal is timeUnknown Speaker  11:46  this December 2054 Cenotaph 2054 This is our rational fear.Dan Ilic  11:52  This week. Second fear the six called World is mourning the loss of one of their leaders. This week, Catherine Nanda laid out the so called six called Nexium has been sentenced to 120 years in prison. Zoey, when you first told me about this story, I was shocked. I couldn't believe that anyone would join a sex cult started by a guy called case. What is what is? What is going on here?Zoë Coombs Marr  12:13  Well, it's incredible. So I was I was shocked that you hadn't heard of it, because I'm obsessed with it. This guy. So basically, if you don't if you're not familiar with it, basically Nexium is in a nutshell, it's like counterfeit Scientology mixed with Amway and like a teddy Mellencamp diet with SIG Slifer in it, and it's like, run by this guy who ran a bunch of pyramid schemes in the 90s. And then he started this, it's so complicated, but he started this self help thing that then it turned out that women were in this master slave pyramid scheme. And then we're actually getting branded, like literally, like, branded with cauterising arms on their bodies with his initials. And it's just, it's, it's, it's nuts. It's like, but it's also the daggy is cult you've ever heard of. Sorry, daggy it's like it's run by this improv guy. No, it's I mean, he just seems like yeah, another one of the guys doing improv for way too long. LetDan Ilic  13:22  me bring my initials. Yes. Let'sZoë Coombs Marr  13:27  see if the guy would like just as he's about to like bring out his acoustic guitar at a party and then goes like, you know, I won the Judo national championship.Unknown Speaker  13:39  Is everyone going?Senator. Lidia Thorpe  13:40  Yeah, right mate, they will letyou bring yourZoë Coombs Marr  13:46  name on to me. It's a while soDan Ilic  13:48  it is totally right. The name of the whole club is so weird Nexium it's spelt ni x VM, like some sort of Greek thing. It doesn't even sound like a call. It sounds like a piece of software, you're forced to log into it or call centre, like at a job you really hate.Unknown Speaker  14:03  Totally.Zoë Coombs Marr  14:05  And they have all these really terrible, terrible names. It's like, he used to run a pyramid scheme called consumer buy lines, byline, and then thing that was like vitamins that was like, National Health Organisation. And then their main scene was like, yeah, it's in ASP. It was like executive success programmes. It soundsSenator. Lidia Thorpe  14:26  like that we've written Yeah, but how boring HowDan Ilic  14:30  do people who are attracted to these boring things end up being sex lives? Is this just a is just an extension of what corporate culture? Is? We all people who work in corporations, are you? Are we all part of a cult?Senator. Lidia Thorpe  14:43  I think it's like, whatZoë Coombs Marr  14:43  I find fascinating about it is it's like one step. And then the next step and you just work out where people's line is. It's like the next logical step. And I think once people become immersed in a world then they just kind of go with it. It's like, like, for instance, I think about myself, right? Like I'm a lesbian. I'm very well immersed in That world but two days ago, my ex girlfriend messaged me and said, Hey, I, she's in the same queer parenting group as my other ex girlfriend. And I thought that's too gay, evensome people that might be like, a creepy guy. I want to listen to you going like, Oh yeah, authenticity is being yourself and I've found the meaning for the world and join my call. All the people it's getting these name branded on them, but they're all different.Dan Ilic  15:42  It's a big step. It's a big step from like having a meeting about your KPIs to coming in and getting your boss's initials branded on us very big. And where do you do? What's that? Hi, Cha meeting like like, Hey, hey, case study branded me. He's all yeah, that's part of the deal here. That's what you're gonnaLewis Hobba  15:58  know. It's coming for sexual harassment training. We will need to train you well to sexually harass eachUnknown Speaker  16:02  other. Yeah,Lewis Hobba  16:04  I found out about it. Because of the Smallville actress Allison Mack. Yes. Yes. Like mega famous.Senator. Lidia Thorpe  16:11  Yeah, I wasConcetta Caristo  16:12  so angry. I was so angry. I was like, okay, so being a famous actor isn't enough. You have that frickin board that you have to like, have this crazy secret stupid call with all this bullcrap. It made me so fierce. I was like, What the hell is up with rich people, it takes so much time what they're doing. I'm like, how did they get literally anything else done. I have one thing in my calendar this tonight I this all day, I was busy stressed just for this. I usually mean if I had to, like run a secret sex Hall and get your name on my ass. I mean, I just pass out. So I just was reallySenator. Lidia Thorpe  16:44  freaking out about that's partZoë Coombs Marr  16:46  of it. Like that's, I feel like I've really butchered the telling of this. Because it's so complex, there's so many layers of it. It's like they get them in and they're like, we're doing like a self help thing, we're gonna be better people. And then they like have all these different schemes. And then they the one of the things that they did in order to be kept. So they had a master slave pyramid, basically, and you only knew who your monster was, you didn't know who any of the other slaves are on your level, just them so they would miss it, you would have to message them if you wanted to eat. So you have toSenator. Lidia Thorpe  17:14  message them, likeZoë Coombs Marr  17:15  my ad calories master. And they would write back like yes, slave. And there was like literally like a game kind of thing that they did. And it's all these kind of things. But in order to get into that group, they had to give collateral what they call collateral, right? Which is like, literally just blackmail, though, just like give us something bad about yourself, like a nude picture or like a fact about your husband that if it came out, it'd be really bad. And so it's just like blackmail. Anyway, he's gonna go to jail for 120 years.Lewis Hobba  17:50  That's actually the craziest part that there's like a head of a sort of borderline religious organisation that's actually getting prosecuted possessed.Unknown Speaker  17:57  I know. I know.Lewis Hobba  18:02  I let him go.Unknown Speaker  18:06  This is a rational view.Dan Ilic  18:10  This makes that fair, Kim Kardashian turned 40. This is huge news for people on Instagram and young people, which is why we've got a token young person with us, Christo. Hello, can you fill us in? I assume I assume because America is in the grip of COVID-19 that Kim Kardashian West just had like a quiet night with the kids and candy and adopted sneakers.Concetta Caristo  18:29  Um, she absolutely did but on an absolutely private island with 40 of her best and closest COVID friends you know, this was so so I get to like I saw this blob on Twitter and here's the thing I'm like kim k the idea of her Stan I'm like okay, go up queen. I love the fat but like yes goals, but this I was like Kimmy you have let us down. Number one for being tone deaf. But number two, the dress that she's wearing in these pictures I have to say is fugly as hell. I was really disappointed in her. I was like, that looks like something you wear. I wore my year eight formal and it was bad. And I regret it. So that sort of is why I'm bringing this to the show youDan Ilic  19:10  said about her and you said about her making all of her friends go into quarantine and Flinders will private island and putting people at risk of that island who work too for COVID-19. And then the gross use of huge amounts of wealth. Why 230,000 Americans dying? You wouldn't upset about that you're upset aboutConcetta Caristo  19:29  No no, it's the dress. That's why I need people to understand that the dress was ugly. You need to go on Twitter to see the steps you will know I was It's so stupid. And what's the best part about it? People if you don't know is that it's like a big meme now on Twitter and people have been posting like the quote of what she said of being like, I know that this like is really not possible for a lot of people in the world. And that's why I'm so grateful. And it was like yeah, Queen it's impossible for 95% of the whole world. But thank you so much. much for sharing it with us. And I just love memes and I love to see those two things come together. Kim k means it's just going absolutely off.Lewis Hobba  20:07  But people like forget that, if you needed like a warning sign about where this was going her birthday last year was Kenny G. Trapped in the house surrounded by roses and candles, playing his saxophone while she walked around the house.Zoë Coombs Marr  20:28  He was forced to do that he was a memberConcetta Caristo  20:30  of celebrities when they pretend to be like us. We hate them when they just being themselves. We had them all the time. screw him. I just thought it was funny. That hashtag was this is 40. Like, she's like, this is okay. This is what 4040 he did. We don't know this is 40 is not for everyone.Zoë Coombs Marr  20:54  This is 40 I just got my floppy disk.Dan Ilic  20:59  Well, there's been calls for a federal ipecac. But I don't know if you know this. The federal government isn't into creating any kind of federal anti corruption commission, but they are doing something at leastVO  21:10  the Morison government has heard your calls for more accountability, scrutiny and transparency. That's why we're adding to the system of checks and balances to make sure Australia stays on the right path Introducing eyecare care. The Independent Commission Against Kerry and KennellyUnknown Speaker  21:26  point again, doesn't meanVO  21:28  I'm right. My cat cat will be just as effective as a national integrity commission but cheaper and more fun to watch during peak morning viewing. Every time our corruption goes public will give karianna high profile job then have a cancelled from that job with iconic x Spin Spin Spin nothing will distract the public more from sport roads. Angus Taylor's water deals and the wholesale takeover of the government by the fossil fuel lobby like an all considered misogynistic racially charged climate denying rent from a fighting star of the Golden Age of television. I was a television equivalent of a cockroach. I kecak. The Independent Commission Against Kerri Anne Kennerley guaranteeing at least one employed person has a job to nominate a job for CAC download the ICA CAC app today.Unknown Speaker  22:11  National Fair Murdoch uses news media nowadays basically just as a political propaganda you know it protects its friends and pushes the giant Barrow your fear is rational.Dan Ilic  22:24  It's been a bit of a strange wait for Victoria as lockdown restrictions were lifted for Melbourne much of the state was celebrating but for Jaguar and people and their supporters it's been a week of anguish and mourning is a sacred 300 year old ancestral tray was kept down for a highway. Joining us now is senator Lydia Thor but jarbo woman herself, whose mum Marjorie Thorpe is fighting state governments roadworks on country in the Victorian Supreme Court. Senator thank you for joining us. It's been a bit of a sad week for you has it been?Senator. Lidia Thorpe  22:53  Ah yeah, so has quite a big day today. In our country today I've been at the site it's quite incredible to know last time I was there sending me those trays out in the open around a fire and enjoying everyone's Company and today I go there and it's surrounded by wire fencing and and lots of big, very big men in very big hive is bit strutting their stuff. So yeah, it was a completely different saying that I will seem to today.Dan Ilic  23:28  Yeah, hive is is like the Redcoats of 2020.Senator. Lidia Thorpe  23:34  Well, yeah.They were certainly there and using their powers and the high boots was was going off today. Because, yeah, they weren't letting anyone Nia as sacred trees out beautiful birthing train, which is 800 years old. And our grandfather tree, which is just as old, we weren't able to access that today. It's been completely fenced off. And that was really sad. How didDan Ilic  24:05  your mom go today with the, with the ruling with the supreme court?Senator. Lidia Thorpe  24:12  Well, she did an incredible job. And we're now got a injunction which lasts until the 19th of November at 4:30pm. So it gives us a little bit of a reprieve and a chance to you know, strategize and plan our next move and continue to keep the pressure on and hopefully, if we say more lifting of the COVID restrictions, then we can get more people out there on the ground. I haven't spoken to mom I've tried to call her but she's too busy to talk to me.Dan Ilic  24:55  That's super interesting. What kind of strategy Do you think you can put in place between now and the non tank To change the course of the state government,Senator. Lidia Thorpe  25:03  well, we've just got to mobilise people as best way we can in, you know, under the COVID restrictions. And that's always a challenge. But that would be the, you know, I think we've mobilised a lot of people in this last week. That way, also need, you know, the strategies that we can use in Parliament for state and federal parliament. And there's also other legal avenues that we can take through the courts. So we're just going through all of that at the moment. And we'll come out fighting even stronger and harder, with many, many more people behind us, when you and your green greens colleagues took a motion to the floor and in the Victorian Parliament to kind of raise questions about the destruction of the tray. You mentioned in your case last week that you would get that right, you actually did in, in Parliament. So, so bringing this up? Well, apparently, so I'm not in the Victorian Parliament. I'm now in the federal parliament as a senator. So that was actually taken to the Victorian Parliament. And yes, say they were and I watched that, that we've, Sam hiddens, asking questions of the premier yesterday, I think. And yeah, you know, we're treated like a joke. It's just not we're not taken seriously, even the non Aboriginal people asking the questions in the parliament, taken seriously. So I don't know whether the government and the opposition think that this is a joke. They obviously haven't been to the area or understand or even given the time to learn about the stories and the connection, I'm sure that they have families and their children would really appreciate that, and give them a true identity to the nation that has the oldest continuing living culture. Right here.Dan Ilic  26:56  When do you think our leaders will wake up to the fact that Aboriginal history is the history of this country? And then there will be at least some kind of motive some of respect for it?Senator. Lidia Thorpe  27:08  Oh, well, we've been waiting a long time. So far. We're very patient, people we are. And we're very forgiving, and conciliatory people, I think. And, you know, I think people are becoming more aware, and more open to learning, I really don't know, I think that they probably need to check out their privilege check out, you know, how they can decolonize just a little, just to open up this country to what it truly ease. And that is a caring country with beautiful landscapes and beautiful people and connections and stories, not something that you just read in a book or watch on a television programme, it's actually something that is still very live, and well today. And hopefully, they get to say that and look, in the short time that I've been a politician. I've had those yards with other politicians on both sides of the fence. And they've come around, and they've been far more respectful and far more open to listening and learning from us. So, you know, I have hope that we can do that and change the nation. That's what I'd like to say, anyway, I can share,Unknown Speaker  28:23  do you feel likeDan Ilic  28:26  a tokenizing? It was a young person. Do you feel like that the place to live that young people are much more attuned to Aboriginal culture as Australian culture than even people? 10 years older than you?Concetta Caristo  28:40  I think yes. Like, I think, you know, it's something that when I think about young people, it's like, we're more aware, we're more accepting, we're more like, keen to understand and like things change. So quickly, do you want any more as I feel like, you tend to feel with older generations, they can feel, they don't want to listen, they're stuck in their ways, and that kind of thing. Like, it's young people that can and want to mobilise that, like, in people younger than me that like inspire me and a learning and understanding why it's so important and like not something that you can just, you know, take as a joke, like the government is or not take it seriously or forget about it or anything like that. Senator, doLewis Hobba  29:21  you want to ask question, this might be a bit practical, but as someone who didn't wasn't in Victorian wasn't aware that this destruction was going to happen until until it happened. It seems crazy to me that it's a road like this can turn you know that you can you can turn around this is not an immovable project. What's the logic that they have here for not doing this?Senator. Lidia Thorpe  29:42  Wow, that's a good question. There. There were many alternatives put to the government which they did not want to entertain one of their own growth employees. In fact, I agreed with one of the alternative routes and I'm not sure whether that person still has a job or not. So You know that there were alternatives. And it's not the chapter on people want to stop anyone fixing the road to make it safer for people. It's not like jump around, people don't want the the highway to be widened. But we just wanted to sit down and negotiate a way where we could protect significant cultural heritage and have a road and keep people safe. But that was never afforded to jump around people. And they can say that they've consulted through their processes and all of that. But that simply has just not happened.Dan Ilic  30:36  Senator, have you pitched at all a series of $90 billion submarines to ferry cars?Senator. Lidia Thorpe  30:47  Well, you know, the Minister, Susan lies of the federal government, in fact, at particular satellite in the same way that she declined protecting Jefferson country. So that's where people are at in terms of our politicians. And that's what we have to try. Try quartermaine who's an Aboriginal comedian, he said on Facebook this week, he said Australians won't realise what they've lost until they see the avatar sequels. And I thought that wasDan Ilic  31:20  that was really sad, but a really great jogSenator. Lidia Thorpe  31:23  and look on the avatar film and and I thought,Unknown Speaker  31:31  it looks like it wasDan Ilic  31:33  so special. Yeah, it was crazy. So we'd like it. What Lewis said before was so interesting. Like, as someone who lives in so called Sydney, I had no idea this was happening until you know, it was far too late. And it's so it's sad that this moment has had to happen for us to be awakened to this cultural moment right now, and perhaps a lot more of Australia know what's happening on jabber on country. And we can we can pitch in to help some somehow,Senator. Lidia Thorpe  31:58  yeah, look, it's a bit like George Floyd, hey, Black Lives Matter and took a black man in another country, to be killed by police, for this country to wake up and realise that we have a problem here. So I just think that you know, to mature as a nation, we really need to start telling the truth, and learn our history, so that we can move forward together. Senator, thank you so much for joining us on irrational fear tonight. My absolute pleasure, thank you very much.Dan Ilic  32:30  Well, that is all we have time for a rational for rational view tonight. big thank you to send a linear thought and a big everlasting thanks to a fee among us tonight. Zoe foster Blake.Unknown Speaker  32:44  Like extra knowledge,Dan Ilic  32:48  terms, ma Do you guys have anything to plug sorry, do you want if you want to plug anything? I'm doing aZoë Coombs Marr  32:56  couple of shows in real life in Sydney as part of the two queres festival a giant dwarf coming up so that's, I think, like the 14th and maybe 12 to the 14th of November.Dan Ilic  33:08  And if you have stand be shuttle hook at Zoe's stand lockdown special No, I mean that the stand up specials on prime a good toe but this the lockdown special is particularly particularly off the wall and just a genius bit of content that I've ever seen in my entire life. So check to check that out from consider DoConcetta Caristo  33:34  you want to plug anything? I have no shows like sorry, but I'll lean into being a young person and plug sort of my socials if you want to follow me on Instagram. It's concetto worldwide, and Twitter congenic Christo and sort of watch me go off there live every day.Dan Ilic  33:51  And Lewis you wanna plug anything?Lewis Hobba  33:52  No, dad save all still doing radio. If you don't need to listen.To the show today you would have heardSenator. Lidia Thorpe  34:09  that was me.Dan Ilic  34:14  This episode was produced by Jacob round on the tepanyaki timeline contributions from our supporters via discord include Peter McNeil, David green, Peter Lola Dave bluestein Maddy Palmer also big thanks to red Mike's Bertha Foundation, go neutral. Our Patreon supporters like you and please like share, subscribe and rate and all that stuff. Until next week, there's always something to be scared of good diet.Transcribed by https://otter.aiA Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/If you want to support the podcast and take your car carbon neutral, with GoNeutral here: http://bit.ly/GoNeutralTalking Aus Post CEO's $12000 Cartier Watches, Chris Pratt, and the New Zealand Election with freshly elected Greens MP Teanau TuionoNina OyamaGreta Lee-JacksonLewis HobbaDan Ilic+ Teanau Tuiono Thanks:Big thanks to The Bertha Foundation, our Patreon Supporters and RODE Mics. Jacob Round, and Maddie Palmer, Adam Boys, Killian David, Cam WilliamsTRANSLATION BY OTTER.AIUnknown Speaker  0:00  This podcast is supported in part by the birth of foundation.Unknown Speaker  0:04  Jay Lewis. Hello, Daniel, howDan Ilic  0:06  are you? Excellent. We've got a brand new streaming system. It's very exciting. I just want to quickly say big thanks to our Patreon supporters, Chris ebeling and Tim Chima who signed up this week. To support Patreon supporters, you can go to patreon.com for slash irrational fear. Another way you can support a rational fear is to offset the carbon emissions from your car with go neutral for every $90 sticker. Go neutral will carbon offset 3.5 tonnes which is incredible. And then five bucks comes to us and since we've started the partnership, Louis, we have actually gotten 11 people to offset the carbon emissions from their car. That's 38 tonnes of carbon thanks to this podcast gone.Lewis Hobba  0:45  That is amazing. Fixed. Take that Paris accord.Dan Ilic  0:51  We do have about 3000 people that do listen to this. So you know if they all did it, we'd be able to pull out you know, 10,000 tonnes of carbon.Lewis Hobba  0:59  That's great. That's really great. And then we just made enough money to be able to afford a zoo membership and then we'll be all good.Dan Ilic  1:05  To go neutral. Click on the links in the show notes. I'm recording my end of irrational fear on gadigal land in the your nation, sovereignty was never ceded. We need a treaty. Let's stop the shark.ALAN JONES  1:17  A Russian mafia contains naughty words like bricks can bro fed gum and section 40 of a rational fear recommended listening by immature audience.Dan Ilic  1:30  Tonight, a New Yorker writer was suspended of allegations of masturbating on a zoom call but according to insiders, he was just after a race. And ABC journalist Laura tingle is supposed to apologise after labelling Scott Morrison smug on Twitter, because ABC editorial style insists that when labelling the Prime Minister smug it must be followed by and with the launch of the new Sacha Baron Cohen movie today, Health Authority is a warning that ball rat voice will begin to spread When asked if bore at voice had infected anyone yet a senior health official answered my wife. It's Friday the 23rd of October and everything is very dies. This is irrational fear.Looking irrational fear. I'm your host former Vatican City Cardinal Denny let's let's meet our fear mongers for tonight. She's a writer, performer, comedian, director. You may know her from her appearances on utopia to nightly and the chaser podcast. Or you may have just seen her jokes about common social media. It's Nina ayama. Hello, welcome Nina. How's it going? Oh, it's great. It's really great to have you. I didn'tNina Oyama  2:45  know who was gonna be like I was like waiting for the credits or else it was good. LikeUnknown Speaker  2:52  Who is it? Who is it?Dan Ilic  2:55  It's pretty much the same. She's one of Australia's funniest people though. She was born in New Zealand, but thankfully she's chosen one of our people to breed with. From tonight lay and drunk history. It's comedian satirist and filmmaker. grittily Jackson,Greta Lee-Jackson  3:07  Daniel Lewis tonight NainaUnknown Speaker  3:10  it's great to have you.Lewis Hobba  3:12  And it's a we feel I feel particularly Brady Bunch today. I think normally with like our old zoom system when we could afford it. It was like much more in line. And now we're all in a little box together and I feel like we just need AliceNina Oyama  3:29  you've never you've never graduated to grid mode Lewis there was no way you can you can have a Brady Bunch look on zoom toUnknown Speaker  3:39  I don't want to know about options. You know what I mean? INina Oyama  3:42  really I'm the opposite. I'm out here changing my background, you know, causing causing a ruckus changing my screen name to stupid slot and then going into a work meeting.Lewis Hobba  3:54  Yeah, you should work at the New Yorker.Nina Oyama  3:57  than that, no, I would have to take my screen. I'm just stupid, ya know,Lewis Hobba  4:08  tilting the camera down and putting your head down. It is a real Giuliani situation. You're gonna have to you're gonna have to,Unknown Speaker  4:16  sorry, sorry, I thought I was on mute.Dan Ilic  4:22  Coming up, we have to face in fees, but also a little later on. We're gonna be talking to Tiana Tiana. He's a greens MP who just want to sit in the New Zealand election at Palmerston North. It's going to be exciting. We're gonna be asking him why New Zealand labour insists on spelling their name correctly, and how we can all move to New Zealand. But first of all, I don't know if you've seen this. Alan Jones is back in the news. Not only did he go on Sky this weekend has it covered. 19 was an epidemic but he's actually suing our friends at the feed. Have you guys seen this? for defamation? Yeah. Do you guys want to sign anything or just leave it up to meUnknown Speaker  5:00  On this well,Dan Ilic  5:01  Alan Jones had something to say about this a little earlier on this week.ALAN JONES  5:09  Good morning, everyone. Yes, it is true. I'm suing SPS for defamation. What he you asked SPS. You can be defamed if there's any three people watching TV and they can't speak English. I totally agree with you. They're hypothetical Lister. But their little skit went on the internet with a potential audience of 7 billion in the videos so called comedian Alex Lee portrayed me as a misogynist, racist and a liar. Now Miss Lee who happens to be an Asian woman Mind you, is totally wrong. Let me tell you something, just because I go around saying misogynistic things doesn't make me a misogynist. Whatever sojourners insist that a woman Prime Minister be put in a chat bag and be thrown out to say yes, but also can someone who isn't a misogynist suggest that too unlikely, but it's a possibility. And just because I incited the largest ever race riot in Australian history, it doesn't make me a racist. If anything, I'm pro race, more races the barrier. I have a long history of loving races, particularly the Everest, the richest horse race in Australia. And let me tell you, just because I constantly lie about climate change doesn't make me a liar. I'm telling you my truth and my truth is the opposite of whatever the facts are. If the scientists say it's climate change, they're wrong. If the medical experts say it's a pandemic, they're wrong. If the views ecologists say that Anthony Claire is overrated, they are so wrong. What a voice. So let this be a warning to any tree hugging comedians out there. If I'm a racist, misogynist liar, then my name isn't Alan Jones. I'm Alan Jones.Dan Ilic  6:46  There we go. Alan Jones, thank you very much.Nina Oyama  6:48  You haven't been sued for your impersonation of Alan Jones. Maybe your entire career did and and he just hasn't given a fuck I've been trying. That's theDan Ilic  6:59  only way I can get listeners to this podcast is to be sued and no one's done it. It's terrible. It's terrible. Well, let's get on with the fears first fear tonight. Yesterday, it said it estimates the CEO of Australia Post admitted that she gave for senior staff watches valued at $3,000 each, because they worked very hard. The CFO couldn't confirm if the gifts were purchased on the company credit card but he could confirm they didn't pay for postage. Executives need to watch till the time for many executives of Australia Post The time is to shred documents. That's what says on their watch. While you're in if you ever are in an Australia Post, so you actually don't need a watch because it's always 1998 that's that's how you know. I don't know if you've been to a post office lately. You could be forgiven. They just kind of had them lying around. I don't know it's not inconceivable that these watches could have been found among the Andre rieu action figures and Kerri Anne Kennerley foot massages. Also you have to feel for Australia Post to the appropriate Thank you gifts of this calibre hard to find after all, Amazon was sold out of parcels of land rezoned for the Western Sydney Airport this week. So it's a bit disappointing. Sophie mangas is getting a $3,000 watch as a thank you gift acceptable if you work for organisation that's owned by the government, Louis harbour,Lewis Hobba  8:15  I'd like to jump in on that one. Absolutely not more should do it. I cannot stress it off that even more government organisations should be giving their employees $3,000 watches I I don't necessarily want to say who but I if anyone wants to do it the IBC is there and INina Oyama  8:37  just have something to do with you currently working for a government organisationLewis Hobba  8:41  all upside is there's nothing on this wrist you know it's going a little hungry. Lonely needs a car ta that's Yeah, I guess millionairesNina Oyama  8:53  watching right now.Unknown Speaker  8:58  Why don't you just use the phone.Dan Ilic  9:00  I'm with you Grand Ole Jackson die. It was really great on Twitter today. One of the people who run social media for Australia Post had a bit of a sense of humour and he was dealing with a dealing with some sort of complaint said I'm very light rested today. That is really nice.Lewis Hobba  9:15  They should have just yeah usually in like tech startups they give you stocks and bonds or whatever like they give you shares in the company. They should have given him $3,000 worth of stamps.Nina Oyama  9:26  That's right and like a lot rested as well to go back to an earlier story.Dan Ilic  9:32  And not just any stamps I should give you like first proof stamps that go up in value then they can get they can absolutely do that. They can absolutely someLewis Hobba  9:39  of those weird coins that they always have tucked up the back you know like Kieran Perkins is first steps thisDan Ilic  9:48  in question to him today Scott Morrison said the CEO of Australia should stand aside which he has But why? Which is like the he got so outraged. It was so strange to see him get outraged about 12,000 dollars but he didn't get outraged at all about sports rots.Lewis Hobba  10:04  That's why he asked her to leave. It's like, if you get a roll, roll it big goDan Ilic  10:08  big go go, hon. Yeah, if you're gonna roll it, you know, have a gasoline recovery, a stamp led recovery would be fine.Lewis Hobba  10:16  If you just invest if you just give like a couple of million dollars to a coalition state to build a women's change room for a sports team that does not have a women's team. Okay? watches that Time's up.Unknown Speaker  10:29  Turn on cnn.Unknown Speaker  10:31  COVID COVID COVID COVID COVID you know why they're trying to?ALAN JONES  10:37  People aren't buying at CNN, youUnknown Speaker  10:40  know, fear is rational.Dan Ilic  10:42  Last weekend on Twitter, the internet decided that out of the full shirtless rich white men named Chris in Hollywood. Chris Pratt was the worst coming in behind Chris Pine, Chris Evans, Chris Hemsworth. All the celebs you can imagine came out to defend Chris Pratt against the joke name it forced the Avengers to once again combined on Twitter to defend his honour. In the next round, though, prep will have to go up against Chris Lilley, Christopher Pyne, Chris Brown and Dr. Chris Brown. Now Nina is dumping on Chris Pratt worth it?Nina Oyama  11:12  Yes, yes. I think he's reaction was dumb as hell also Can I just say Dr. Chris Brown would totally be the best Chris in that second line up that you said. Um, I think my thing is like, it was the worst crease out of four Chris's you just the fourth best, Chris. Why is everyone so angry? It's quite a good thing to be the fourth best because and you're already is like a show. It's not even the most hated Chris. Like there's a show called Everybody Hates Chris. And it's about Chris Rock. Yeah. And the fact of about so angry about Chris that I don't understand. I think it's just fragile egos to be honest.Lewis Hobba  11:52  Can you imagine though like being being one of those Chris's spending your life going? I just want to be an actor to be a famous actor. I want to be a Hollywood star. And then you finally do. And you're one of the most famous people in the world, but you're still not even the most famous Chris. Like it must be so annoying that they all came up at the same time. Like Chris Pratt is a fucking global mega star. He is like he's a Jurassic Park superstar. And he's not they're not voting.Nina Oyama  12:23  But they're not voting on fame dead death voting on like best as in like best personality. I think that could be good reason is because Chris Pratt is a known Republican. And that's why everyone's dunking on him because he's a slightly undecided political views.Dan Ilic  12:39  Yeah, there's it's very, it's very polemic over there. They're all like dirt dunking on him because he's at Hillsong. And his, you know, talk about how sales on LGBT friendly.Nina Oyama  12:49  They have conversion camps.Dan Ilic  12:51  And he's dunking on Chris Pratt, because he didn't go to a Biden fundraiser where all the other single Avengers went to this Biden fundraiser. So it's real. It but he doesn't actually he's not very overtly pro Republican. He's just kind of just drives a truck and shoots animals.Nina Oyama  13:09  Oh, I mean, yeah, I was gonna say I've been to his Instagram for research, definitely not sexual purposes. But I was truly shocked at the amount of guns and stuff like that. I was like, oh, oh, it doesn't fit with his character from Parks and Rec. And that's when everyone knows him from and he's this adorable puppy dog type character. That's what people have said to probably they're like, How can that be the same person is that they can't separate the actor from the character. I think it's because he got skinny is because he used to be a fat Democrat. Any Republican, that's what happenswhen you become a right winger,Lewis Hobba  13:47  he was zero, Doc 30. Right. So I feel like people should just try to watch that over and over again and be like, hey, kills staple. Oh, hey, killed Osama Bin Ladin, so he should be a national hero as well. Yeah.Dan Ilic  13:59  Very, very difficult. Very, very difficult. But no one hikes like you can't people must be able to separate the character from the person because nobody ever don't dunk on Ben Mendelsohn. I mean, he plays every single evil person ever bad.Unknown Speaker  14:14  Yeah, he does. He does a good body Commando. What are his political views?Greta Lee-Jackson  14:22  Do I have to fight?Lewis Hobba  14:25  I also how good is like Chris Hemsworth at the moment, he basically just travelled without a passport. Like I feel like every time I open the news, like Chris Chris Hemsworth is in Tasmania like was no one's allowed in Tasmania? I just feel like Chris Hemsworth is can just show up anyway. Definitely in Australia if not the world and no one would ask the question of him just like please go striker.Nina Oyama  14:48  Oh, up a bang out about like, all the time is hot privilege. He's got hot privilege. Yeah. And that picture of him with a baby. In fact, I don't think that he has a possible I just think he has a he Baby and he just brings it and you just say a man that hot with a kid that cute and you just your ovaries melt your testicles melt it doesn't matter what what sexuality you identify as it's just you let him on the planeDan Ilic  15:13  Louis ever since you had your your your your jaw fixed. Have you ever noticed that you have hot privilege because you would have a definite before and after?Lewis Hobba  15:22  Yes, Dan. Doors open for me as you can tell.Nina Oyama  15:27  Have you had your joy fix Louis?Lewis Hobba  15:29  Yeah, I had a well, I this was likeDan Ilic  15:33  last year he looked like Christopher Pratt, but, like in 2001. But now he looks like Chris Hemsworth is prettyLewis Hobba  15:41  cool. Yeah, yeah.No, I have exactlyNina Oyama  15:45  the same for what it's worth just.Lewis Hobba  15:52  Yeah, see Dan, as you can tell the hot privilege.David Barnden  15:56  I'm still getting dunked on by NATO.Unknown Speaker  15:59  Rational fear. I was always getting in trouble for getting naked. They're like you can't just pull your dick out. I was like,Unknown Speaker  16:05  this isUnknown Speaker  16:05  a rational view.Dan Ilic  16:07  It's time for a feature interview. I interview a guest tonight on irrational fear has a brand new job after years of campaigning and working at NGOs all over the world supporting indigenous peoples as of this week, Tiana to you know, is now an elected representative for the greens party in New Zealand representing Palmerston North. He's also a father of four. It's a real privilege to have him on the show because he stayed up like to be on killer app. Tiana.Unknown Speaker  16:34  Congrats.Teanau Tuniono  16:39  Thanks for having me. I'm sick. I'm day four on the job he literally did on Saturday night. Yeah.Nina Oyama  16:45  How are you gonna say I'm on day four of a bender.Teanau Tuniono  16:52  Day for parliamentary Binda. Yeah. I've just landed from from a big long campaign that was that was going on. We did part of it for lockdown. And then it got extended for another four weeks. So it was like a bit of a long haul. But um, yeah, we've got 10 green MPs. And we're hoping to get a 20 get my buddy Steve Abel and from Greenpeace. So special boats go away, we'll hit the limit. Hey, can you give us a little bit of a rundown about how the differences between NZ and OC politics in in like a sentence or a paragraph in politics from here and it looks like one of the great mysteries of the university. I mean, we've got a MMP system here. And so it's so you have people that run for electorates. And then you have there's a proportion set aside for all party for Pat for a party list. So all the green employees we came in on pilotless so we got 7.5% simple, it's something rather pricy another boat, and mate got us 10 and it goes to the MPs. Because you guys got state. I mean, you got federal and stuff like they've already got one house. Yeah. Yeah, right.Nina Oyama  18:08  Now, my theory on the difference between us and Australian politics is that I'm not us. So New Zealand, in Australian politics, is that people in New Zealand are just generally nicer and better people. And they elect good people because of that. That sounds legit to me.Lewis Hobba  18:23  I wish I could just be re watching it watching like the latest debate was. I mean, I know that you weren't involved. But it was such a stark contrast to the rest of the world. It was it was just a bunch of people agreeing with each other like this is less contentious than a year nine debate in Australia. This is outrageous.Teanau Tuniono  18:43  People in New Zealand could have been betteractually had the privilege of being we had our first Modi said Modi Modi is the indigenous language about it on his own. So I had the privilege of being in our first the first ever televised multi language election debate. So it's all I'm all in Mali. And that was good because it had like, a had a real different kind of feel to it. Because it was because we had to let them be observed, you know, protocol and stuff like that. So we were, we were I would say pull but but I'm very indigenous with each other. So it was it was a New Zealand First and I was like I was really stoked to be part of that.Dan Ilic  19:24  And that's really awesome that didn't one of our listeners asked the question they asked why doesn't New Zealand embrace the democracy sausage? Are you aware of this cultural phenomenon around around Australians electionTeanau Tuniono  19:37  workers exhausted so we don't bother with the Trump's.Dan Ilic  19:41  When we when we go and vote, we end up getting a sausage sizzle at the community hall or whatever right after and that's a symbolism of about democracy. But apparently that doesn't happen in NZ. Do you know what?Teanau Tuniono  19:56  I could do my careerNo, that's not a thing for us. Okay,Lewis Hobba  20:05  now tell us are there any snacks at all?Teanau Tuniono  20:10  When I bought it, it was very snake free?Dan Ilic  20:14  would have been good. Let's talk about the biggest question here the labour majority, it's been a big, incredible win for labour, how do you think, as a greens member, you'll be able to keep them accountable.Teanau Tuniono  20:27  The vast majority of the seats in an MP MP system they are they're the first party to actually achieve a majority of seats. So it's your territory for us and, and within this political system as well. So all the cards are all on the table for them, you know, they've got all the cards. But you know, we've got our we've got our policy priorities around, you know, like, taking ambitious climate action, and showing that we do the best for people who are underneath the under the poverty line. And making sure that as we move through the COVID crisis that you know, there's the climate crisis and the crisis of biodiversity and across all of that the crisis of inequality so we've got our things that we need to keep pushing on as well. My guess is we can work together that that would be raised that we would but yeah, New Zealand IDan Ilic  21:20  got to do. nz labour seems to be kind of on the front foot no global leaders if you like when it comes to climate change and climate action. In Australia, we're barely managing to do that to do anything that resembles anything looks like climate action, instead is one of the few countries that is kind of committed to net zero by 2050. Australia is doing net zero perhaps maybe by 2300 it's looking like how do you think New Zealand can apply pressure to its neighbours like Australia to takeTeanau Tuniono  21:50  just is it but um, but you know, we look as we can with labour in the last time we did measure we measure quite a few things I've highlighted the zero carbon levels, what he talked about, which is that putting that framework in place, but understand that it's just the beginning you have the framework, then you've actually got to do the work ramp up your your your climate ambition, particularly for us in the area of agriculture. And we also had the ban of new permits on offshore oil drilling as well which is really really important. divestment assessment and Kiwi saver in terms of those those those companies invest in fossil fuels as well. So these these are these are really concrete things that we have achieved. But in terms of pressureNina Oyama  22:33  suggestion, um, if for applying pressure to government Look, I'm not one I don't usually I don't think countries invading other countries is usually a good idea, but um, would you ever just considered just like fully invading Australia and just take just taken the fuck over? Because I just think you guysLewis Hobba  22:53  need help out, we'd like leaving.Teanau Tuniono  22:55  Yeah, maybe I'll mention that you sitNina Oyama  23:00  here and just sort of suggest just a casual war. Like,please be on board. But I'll defect, I'll defect. It isDan Ilic  23:10  kind of interesting, because we all can't move to New Zealand like we'd like to, but maybe New Zealand could just make Australia and New Zealand that way. You know, we'd all be New Zealanders.Nina Oyama  23:21  That could be a great phrase make Australia, New Zealand again.Teanau Tuniono  23:27  That's gonna be willing toDan Ilic  23:31  tell us a bit about your background and things that you're really passionate about, and why you kind of got into politics after years of working in activism.Teanau Tuniono  23:39  Yeah, well, it may not fished activists and I might be the last activist tip of joining the greens. I mean, it's actually part of our tradition, our proud tradition. I was on the board of Greenpeace previously before this as well. And I've worked at the climate change negotiations, I was at the UN Paris for the Paris Climate treaty, for example. My background is in law and of the intersection of indigenous peoples and the environment for a very long time. I've come up to Australia actually quite a few times with with Aboriginal activists that sum it up to borroloola, where they've been organised against the uranium mine up there as well, but the MacArthur river, so it got some long standing relationships with some some good folks up that way. It's just been my life. And some of the activists will cease to be an activist as I get olderUnknown Speaker  24:31  screen anymore.Teanau Tuniono  24:34  Something that doesn't require that much movement. EvenUnknown Speaker  24:39  after a tree, that's cool. That'sTeanau Tuniono  24:44  the guy Steve Abel, who was just happy to be here actually. They were trying to cut down some trees up in Oakland and he was up a tree in the middle of the campaign, trying to save some native trees.Nina Oyama  24:55  Well, that puts me to shame I'm a big click to vist I like to share on Facebook. Is thereDan Ilic  25:00  the hype that they reach people? If there's a petition Naina will be there to support that petition? I don't know to know, like there's some there's been a good precedent of the newly minted politicians jumping in the activist game like AOC, jumping into that sunrise movement campaign, and Nancy Pelosi is office in her first few months, I mean, that you can do it and what actions are you going to be doing in the next few months?Teanau Tuniono  25:26  in the planning stage at the moment, like seeing what, what formation the government will actually hear, right. And then it's about sort of putting those priorities and chairs, all the stuff that we campaigned on. And the things that we can get over the line are the things we can get over the line, the things that we can't get when we have campaign mode, that's how I see it. That's, that's, that's all the things, because, you know, we've got, like, if you look at the quality with people losing their jobs and stuff like that, making sure that there is enough there for people so that people have all everything that they need, in terms of housing, and food and all that kind of stuff, and how that actually filters down and support sub children, but also their families and communities. Their stuff for me is really important. Well, Deanna, thank you so much for joining us in irrational fear. It's really great. I've written you slogan for your next next run.Dan Ilic  26:18  It's not what you know, it's DNA.Lewis Hobba  26:32  It was a real pleasure to me and I as a yet quite I'm sure you could tell from our tone. We're all very jealous of your whole country. What you've done. Yeah.Teanau Tuniono  26:42  I've been coming to sharlie weekend with like, ever collectibles for over 20 years, my good mates. And Australia surprises me with the large number of really progressive people over there. And then there as the number of people livethat part of the spectrum as well. Yeah.Nina Oyama  27:06  Yeah. It's like what you can get done and what you can achieve in a country without a stranglehold of the Murdoch press.Lewis Hobba  27:11  Yeah,Nina Oyama  27:12  well, that doesn't exist, you know. Yeah. I know. They always talk about silent majority as being conservative, but I reckon they're actually progressive.Unknown Speaker  27:21  Yeah,Lewis Hobba  27:22  yeah. Did you wish to speak up?Dan Ilic  27:25  is trying that's what I mean. That's one of the things that always goes on about saying that she'd never get elected if she was if she was in Australia and she just give up politics because because the price would make it too hard to operate. Yeah, but I think like what how New Zealand is really tackling the challenges of fossil fuel subsidies and and that kind of stuff as well is so important, and really takes the power out of out of fossil fuels inside parliament, which we don't have. Our government is pretty much an extension of the fossil fuel lobby.Teanau Tuniono  28:01  Yeah, I noticed it's Yeah, it's no good.All the other issues as well.Lewis Hobba  28:14  You're on board before youwill kick in eventually.Dan Ilic  28:20  Yes. Yeah. No, we didn't do one Kiwi accent joy this this. Big thanks to our fear mongers tonight. Nina Yama, Gridley Jackson Lewis haba. And Tiana to know thank you so much for joining us.Unknown Speaker  28:35  Thanks for having us.Dan Ilic  28:36  Thank you guys. Do you guys have Do you guys have anything Deployment Manager in a plug? Anything?Lewis Hobba  28:44  Good is like to plug any baby. Great One. Really good babyDan Ilic  28:48  manager wanna plug anything?Nina Oyama  28:50  Ah, the chase report podcast drops every Thursday or Friday, depending on what we feel like.Dan Ilic  28:58  gretta while you're breastfeeding, do you want to plug anything?Nina Oyama  29:03  Quiet and then I was like, Thanks, Dad.Greta Lee-Jackson  29:10  Kitty could sayUnknown Speaker  29:15  Teddy.Unknown Speaker  29:19  What a beautiful fella. And Tiana Tiana, do you want to plug anything?Teanau Tuniono  29:23  Oh, yeah. Shout out to all the social justice and environmental environmental activists over the Australia.Lewis Hobba  29:33  Your gates unlocked on a date as yet to be specified.Dan Ilic  29:41  Louis, anything.Lewis Hobba  29:45  Please Yeah, we will. Not end same old same old for me.Dan Ilic  29:49  Excellent. big thank you to Maddie Palma, Adam boys Kilian, David Kim Williams, Kiran castellina. And of course, Jakob round on the tech and tepanyaki timeline. Big thanks to rod marks the birth of foundation going yearold Patreon supporters, and until next week, there's always scared of goodTranscribed by https://otter.aiA Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/GoNeutralhttp://bit.ly/GoNeutralIf you want to support the podcast and take your car carbon neutral, with here: Thrilled to bring you this month’s Greatest Moral Podcast Of Our Generation.Every 4 weeks on the A Rational Fear feed, Linh Do and I (Dan Ilic) present a climate news update and a long-form conversation with leader in climate action. This month’s chat is excellent.Two very different brains leading climate conversations in their own powerful way.Osher Gunsberg (The Bachelor / Better Than Yesterday Podcast) and Mike Canon-Brookes (Atlassian / SunCable)Osher is using his celebrity to draw his broad audience to his podcast where he has meaningful conversations about climate anxiety and climate action.And Mike is using his own personal wealth and huge influence in the business community to drive innovation and wedge government into climate action.Great chat, an honour to speak with them both in the same Zoom call.Cheers,Dan IlicThe first 8minutes of the conversation sound a bit rubbish because I forgot to hit record on my Rodecaster, so we had to use the audio from the Zoom recording which isn’t as high fidelity. So bear with us, it does get better.A NOTE ON AUDIO: Thanks:Big thanks to The Bertha Foundation, our Patreon Supporters and RODE Mics. Jacob Round,TRANSCRIPT BY OTTER.AI BELOW:Unknown Speaker 0:00This podcast is supported in part by the birther foundationDan Ilic 0:04to the greatest moral podcast of our generation joining me of course as she does for every one of these special greatest moral podcasts of our generations is lindow fellow Bertha Fela gaylinLinh Do 0:15Hello, hello, Iris. So good to be back.Dan Ilic 0:18This is our second greatest moral podcast of our generation. A huge thank you to everyone who listened to our Kevin Rudd episode, I think had a lot of good feedback from that, particularly around people who love the nitty gritty of climate backstabbing.Linh Do 0:31Yeah, the interview was amazing. And I think it just makes me even more eager to wait for when those cabinet files get released. You know, I'll be one of those geeks eagerly awaiting exactly what happened and will finally know who was the liar after all.Dan Ilic 0:46This of course, is out on the irrational fear feed every month we bring you an in depth conversation about climate change with climate legends and a little bit more about who is on our podcast a little later on. But first of all, a big thank you to our new irrational fear Patreon members including Nick with a K Lysa Yeager, Shelly Carr Simone Kevin and Tim Stevenson chipping in to help irrational fear jump to patreon.com forward slash irrational fear to support the podcast another way to spot irrational fear is to offset the carbon emissions from your car with go neutral for every $90 sticker go neutral by 3.5 tonnes of carbon offsets which is about the average yearly emissions for a car and then five bucks that comes to us to go neutral. Click on the link in the show notes. I'm recording my end of irrational feet on gadigal land and your nation's sovereignty was never ceded. We need a treaty. Let's start the show. DespiteUnknown Speaker 1:33global warming, rational fear is adding a little more hot air with long form discussions with climate leaders. Good.Unknown Speaker 1:44This is calledUnknown Speaker 1:45Don't be fright, the heat waves and droughts greatest mass extinction when facing a manmade disaster, podcast, climateUnknown Speaker 1:58shiana rationUnknown Speaker 2:01all of this with global warmingUnknown Speaker 2:02and a lot of it's a hoax. But write a small podcast about generation.Unknown Speaker 2:09For sure.Dan Ilic 2:10All right, listen, let's get into our climate news for this week. Story number one, Australia joins the US China and Russia in refusing to sign our latest pledge on biodiversity. Is this any kind of surprise that we are with the US Russia and China on this lid?Linh Do 2:26Never Never surprised. But I mean, last year during the Madrid climate negotiations, we were with Saudi Arabia and given you know, everything that we're hearing about how koalas are going extinct, the billions of animals that were wiped out, unfortunately, during the recent bush fires, you think we'd care a little bit moreDan Ilic 2:43than there's a lot of similarities between Australia and Saudi right, but particularly about the way we treat our journalists,Linh Do 2:47that is definitely for alarming, but we still call ourselves a democracy. So it's a scary path that we're headed down.Dan Ilic 2:54Now. The Morison government said it refused to sign this global pledge, endorsed by 64 other countries committed to reverse biodiversity loss because it was inconsistent with Australia's policies, namely, net zero by 2050, which pretty much the rest of the world is signed up to. Australia has committed to net zero but before 2100, which is absolutely hilarious. I mean,Linh Do 3:14we weren't really alive then. So I guess for us, that's how we have to feel better about it. That's how I go to sleep at night.Dan Ilic 3:21And can I say thank God, I won't be alive then because it's gonna be too hot to live. kitten joshy, the climate hero on Twitter did tweet some calculations of his own, which were taken from the government's own data a few months back, and he suggested that we're actually on track to meet our net zero targets by 2300. So that's about the double length of Australia's colonised period.Linh Do 3:42The numbers at that point are just eye watering. Really, it's really hard to comprehend how our policies account for multiple multiple generations from now.Dan Ilic 3:53It's so interesting. This is the latest pledge put together by the WWF and un, I jumped over to the latest pledge page because anybody can sign up to it and sign their organisation up to it so I put you dear listener behind the pledge. So irrational fear is now signed up to this pledge. So putting out 10,000 listeners a month behind the pledge good on us.Unknown Speaker 4:16Yay by diversity.Dan Ilic 4:18I emailed Terry Butler as well because she had some comments to say about you know, why scammer didn't sign up but she had at this point in time, she hasn't got back to me whether she actually signed up to the pledge herself, but they went to the website and if you are, if you are a head of state of a country, you can actually click through to a form and sign up your country so I actually went through and signed us up as well. But they haven't got back to me is to verify my identity. I said I was the Minister for climate action and in fear That's what I said.Linh Do 4:50They ignore that doesn't exist in Australia. Although you know, it's like so funny given her our head of state actually is is that the royal family is all behind by diversity like Prince Charles huge support Well, thisDan Ilic 5:00is the thing this is absolutely things have the google doc says Head of State for your country and technically our head of state is the claim. So maybe we are already signed up by default.Linh Do 5:10Well, you know, one of the benefits of colonisation and the Commonwealth and the British Empire is potentially we can follow in the footsteps of what the UK is doing right now. I likeDan Ilic 5:19that if Tony Abbott was was Prime Minister and Lizzy asked him to he probably signed up to that pledge.Linh Do 5:25Her would have thought I used to think I was a Republican in terms of you know, supporting the Republic, but here we are. All for the monarchyDan Ilic 5:33story number two. Exxon's plan for surging carbon emissions revealed in Lake documents now this story is interesting it as the rest of the kind of fossil fuel industry is planning on phasing out its emissions Exxon over the next five years is planning on increasing them by 17%. Are you surprised at all by this lindo?Linh Do 5:54I feel like Exxon has written the playbook on big organisations and companies that we can't trust Rio Tinto has just proven that again, in Australia, it almost doesn't matter what they otherwise say they're going to be doing because there's always something that they're trying to sweep under the rug.Dan Ilic 6:09This is really interesting bhp. So put out an article or somebody put out an article about bhp actually doing further oil exploration even though they've signed a pledge to get out of the fossil fuel game. But they're still exploring fossil fuels. I guess they're searching for it. So they can go put up a big sign saying don't dig here. I guess this was a finding under protected.Linh Do 6:27It wants to know that it's there. It's almost like you know, these big companies, someone in the PR department signing up to all of these pledges, maybe the by diversity one even, but then just you know, there's another part of it where engineers or whoever are going off and exploring new oil fields. It's just really reprehensible really,Dan Ilic 6:47shift in person is really significant significant for a company like Exxon, if its plans are realised Exxon would add to the atmosphere, the annual emissions of a small developed nation or 26, coal fired power plants. That's, that's insane over the next five years,Linh Do 7:06absolutely wild. It's interesting that you've been encouraging listeners to go neutral with their carbon emissions from their car. Do you think people will now change their mind about where they fill up?Dan Ilic 7:20yet? Absolutely. I'm gonna get a fill up with Shell. Definitely.Linh Do 7:28Buddy. Sorry, that was a bit of a question.Dan Ilic 7:32Can I say they extremely limited, particularly around bond I'm pretty sure Mobil Exxon is the only place I can actually fill up.Linh Do 7:39Well, the idea is to be a good carbon advocate is to drive even further in your heart to the nearest suburb Lin visit, or petrol station. I don't think that logic works out.Dan Ilic 7:50Are you telling me I'm gonna have to drive from Bondi to rosebay bp to fill up now? Oh, my God.Linh Do 7:59You're carbon neutral. So it doesn'tUnknown Speaker 8:01matter. It just doesn't. Just doesn't matter.Dan Ilic 8:04Okay. Now, Matt Canavan has been slammed for his use of the Black Lives Matter slogan. And he's got a ute. And he's got black coal matters on the back of his unit. Tell us a bit about the story.Linh Do 8:17Well, why do we even start sometimes, when I like wake up to the news in Australia, I'm like, of course, that just happened. Of course, that just happened. Um, given the way that we tray, our indigenous people in this country, pretty reprehensible given the way that we have, you know, gone on to other people's country, and like, you know, built new coal power stations doesn't make sense. I think the only good that I could sort of try to say from this is maybe then rules out the argument that we have in this country for supporting brown coal, which, you know, whilst all calls no good ground calls even more inefficient, even more dirty, so at least, we're prioritising within, you know, the scale of bad things we already do.Dan Ilic 8:58I can't believe they've appropriated this activist language for their own activist language. It really hurts my head a little bit.Linh Do 9:05Yep. Well, you know, they're borrowing from the people who do do things well. So maybe this is a sign that I'm campaigning for Black Lives Matter, really is working.Dan Ilic 9:14Just another example of why people aren't ready black culture.Unknown Speaker 9:18Yep, never ending.Dan Ilic 9:20And finally, let's talk about the 2021 budget. Lin. Katyn Joshi, as we've mentioned before, is a fantastic tweeter on climate. You got to follow him. Ke TANJ. Oh, he did this great tweet this week, while when the budget was happening, he took the budget speech hit Ctrl F and search for the word climate. It appeared only once in Josh frydenberg speech. The sentence was 1.9 billion in new funding as part of our energy plan to support low emissions of renewable technologies, helping to lower emissions and climate change followed by the sentence. We're also helping to unlock five key gas basins, isn't that just doesn't that just symbolise everything that Australia is about when it comes to emissions actually And whenLinh Do 10:00exactly it feels like that one mention was just say say we did talk about it, don't think about it in context.Dan Ilic 10:08I think that was actually my tweet as well off the back of kittens was like, say they did mention it. They didn't say climate. We didn't say climate.Linh Do 10:14We said it. They did about us know exactly. You know, it's about making sure that everyone gets represented, even if in this case, representation literally meant nothing.Dan Ilic 10:25So chillin. What I love about the budget speech, every time it comes around, it's kind of like our own version of the State of the Union speech, but it's really, really shared.Linh Do 10:34And it's way wonky. I have never been invited to a budget party, but I've been to my fair share of State of the Union ones in the US.Dan Ilic 10:42Somebody plays invite lindo to their budget party,Linh Do 10:45foreign into financial year one, I am open to all super geeky economic party conversationsDan Ilic 10:51into financial year ones are the best because often companies use that instead of Christmas. And so they treat their employees very well so that you definitely want to get on that gravy train.Unknown Speaker 11:01Okay, good to know. Good to know.Dan Ilic 11:03All right. For this week's podcast, we bring you a big conversation I had last week with Asha Gunzburg and, and Mike cannon Brookes at the Smart Energy summit. What I liked about this, it was a good chat with two really random people, you know, Asha Gunzburg, and Mike cannon Brookes. What do these people have in common? Yeah, okay. Well, you know, for those who don't know, Asha is the host of the bachelor, Mike cannon. Brooks is the software developer for Atlassian and and energy entrepreneur. What do you think these people have in common? Lynn? Do they have anything in common at all?Linh Do 11:34Well, honestly, on the surface, not so much. I think when I look at the image of like, I am confused. It feels like definitely a sort of a joke of, you know, three very random people walk into a bar, what happens? But I think this is sort of the good thing about what's happening in Australia is we have so many people who you think wouldn't care about climate change getting on board, because they recognise we all have a stake in our future.Dan Ilic 11:56I mean, in the chat, I discuss it further. But I feel like the only thing that really kind of draws these two together is that probably a decade ago, climate change wasn't a central part of their work. But now it is, as with all of us. Many of you might be wondering, where are the women on the panel, I asked this as well as from the organisers as well. They said, What do you want from me? I got I got one of the most famous people on TV and I got one of the biggest billionaires and I said, Well, Oracle is either a billionaire woman or a famous woman who could also be on this panel as well. So anyway, that they said that was enough. Without further ado, please enjoy this chat with Mike cannon Brooks and Asha Gunzburg.Unknown Speaker 12:31You're listening to the greatest moral podcast about generationDan Ilic 12:37to many in Australia. Asha is a handsome face and has been in the front of many of the biggest TV moments in Australia, including stuff like channel v Australian Idol, the mass singer, Bachelor franchise, there hasn't been a rose ceremony he hasn't been part of. But what you may not know about Asha is that he is also a student of the world deeply connected with thought leaders around the globe. Asha has been part of s&m think School of Creative Leadership. He's interviewed some of the most interesting brains of culture, science and society. And on his podcast better than yesterday, he's managed to pull that bachelor audience into a very interesting deep thinking space. So don't be fooled by his $70,000 hairstyle. Brain is switched on to climate change, and he regularly profiles activists, entrepreneurs in the climate space. He was even on q&a s climate solutions panel earlier this year.Osher Gunsberg 13:24Welcome, Marsha. Thanks, Dan. I'm really grateful to be here. To be a part of this event is a real privilege and looking ally.Dan Ilic 13:32And speaking of q&a, our other guests today was on the show on Monday. He's a real jet setter. In fact, when he was eight years old Mike cannon Brookes managed to buy his first computer on frequent flyer points, opting for an Amstrad pay say 20. A choice he still regrets to this very day. He is the co founder of Atlassian team collaboration software company is a passionate clean energy evangelist. He's also one of Australia's great muckrakers, probably in a previous era, we would have called him a larrikin. He uses his change for the better however, Mike has co opted the term fair dinkum power from Scott Morrison and turned it into a war cry for renewables. And using not much more than Twitter and a few phone calls. Mike was the driving force behind Australia getting one of the world's largest lithium ion batteries, which was only superseded by the one they put in the back of Peter Dutton. We welcome Mike cannon Brookes.Mike Cannon-Brookes 14:23Thanks Good. Good to be here man. I like that was quite an intro. I don't know we've been over the PC 20 layers of Usher's microphone that he does you guys do have some some good microphone gang duringOsher Gunsberg 14:35mocking I know a guy. Okay.Dan Ilic 14:39Well, before we get away, let's have a message from our sponsor.Unknown Speaker 14:42It's the largest recession in history in theUnknown Speaker 14:47Coronavirus stimulus is said to be slash job Kiba was 1500. a fortnight now 1200 or four nights job seeker was 550. a fortnight now just 250 a fortnight economic stimulus for by 3040 and 50% off the unemployed, I've never been more motivated to get a job that doesn't exist. There's more during the largest ever climate emergency is giving billions to the fossil fuel industry for pipelines.Unknown Speaker 15:17Instead of ending emissions of them, every guy is opposite day taking the money for the ball and giving it to the race. You've got to have a go decade ago before it's all gone. God, God, children conditions apply for donations of $6 million or more to the Liberal Party. See the PDF for details.Dan Ilic 15:35Now, fellas, so it is a way of icebreaker so we can get to know each other get to understand our own our own ideas behind climate change, I thought we'd just do a little climate quiz. I've got the answers here that are given to me by Angus Taylor's office, but I want you to answer as truthfully as possible. So first of all, let's get the quiz underway. Folks, what is the best way to lower emissions? I'm sure Mike, what is the best way to lower emissions to jump in whenever you're ready? I shall. I shall go Russia.Osher Gunsberg 16:07I dig things out of the ground. Sell them once and somebody overseas and then burn them?Dan Ilic 16:13Oh, yes. That's correct. That's correct. Very good. All right, next question. Of course, Angus wrote, the best way to lower emissions is to make more emissions. That's what Angus asked me to let you know. All right. Next question. What is the one technology that's going to save the planet? suffocating from greenhouse gas? What is the one technology's going to save the planet from suffocating with greenhouse gas? Freeze? trace. Oh, I'm sorry. It's gas. greenhouse gas. All right. Well, gas. Yeah. More gas. More gas. Yeah, yeah. Okay. What is the best way to strengthen ties without Island neighbours and security partners in the Pacific? What is the best way to strengthen ties without island?Osher Gunsberg 16:55I should allow said Pacific to rise up and swallow them. Yes. That's very, very good.Dan Ilic 17:02Actually. You've done you've done your work here. All right. Excellent. Final question. The world is meeting again, a cop 26 in Glasgow next year. What's the best way to impress our global trading partners at that conference? What is the best way?Osher Gunsberg 17:17Again, a second shirt frontingDan Ilic 17:21shirt Friday? I'll I'm not. I'm not sure that's quite right. The answer is, I'm afraid it's time to take a hodgepodge of mythical technology solutions not proven to work. And once again, be the bang whale on the supermarket trolley of progress and drag the rest of the world to the 10 items or less line. But arcia Congratulations, you have won the quiz well done.Osher Gunsberg 17:44That's terrible. Well, you want to get that wrong?Dan Ilic 17:48Oh, it's great to have you both here. Now we're all awake. Let's get stuck into the conversation, a satirist and a TV host and a software engineer, or walk into a bar and decide to make climate change the centre of what they do. How does that even happen for us three. Climate change is now part and parcel of our work. But as entertainers and creators of things 10 years ago, probably no really wasn't as important. Mike, let's start with you. How have you managed to kind of put climate at the centre of kind of what you're doing right now?Mike Cannon-Brookes 18:17Look, I think it's obviously a really, really important problem, if not the most existential challenge for humanity, depending on where in the spectrum you fall, I'd be towards the latter end of that spectrum personally. And I don't think it's going to take just, you know, green minded folk to solve. If you ask me, it's as much as an economic problem and a finance problem and a creative problem, storytelling problem. And we need all parts of society to get involved in solve that. Like, I've always been interested in technology, and the economics of things, business and other bits and pieces. So I happen to have some strengths that are super useful. But I, I think it's a good example, on your panel, if you need lots of different types of people to be tackling and attacking this problem.Dan Ilic 19:03What was there a single moment for you was like, was there like an aha moment that can you kind of brought you to this issue that you were like, wow, you know, I gotta do something I can I can do something.Mike Cannon-Brookes 19:13Look, certainly the big big battery from the intro was a large turning point for me personally, sort of got myself involved in a bit of a bingo there. And then, you know, when we got it solved, again, the reason I think that was such an amazing event is rarely have we had a lot of people shit on an ID, then the idea get built in Yeah, it gets proven in such a short period of time.Dan Ilic 19:38Right? If you've never worked, if you've never worked in television, like you've never worked in television that happens all the time.Mike Cannon-Brookes 19:42Well, but it was really instructive for me it because I had to learn a huge amount of content personally and got much more into the electricity system and how it works and why it works and how that affects climate change and emissions. And it was sort of a big startup a big journey for me, I suppose. But secondly, To see all of the stories in politics and other things behind it, and then to have that sort of laid, laid bare really quickly was was just a fascinating exercise. For me as someone who just says, that's just broken. Like I like fixing things that are broken.Dan Ilic 20:15That just seemed unjust. That was not right. People weren't saying the correct things. And I was perhaps naive before that. I think that is a really beautiful phrase like fixing things that are broken. Our show, what about you? How does how does someone go from hosting television shows in Hollywood to kind of being a climate change communicator?Osher Gunsberg 20:33I think, for me, it's because it became an undeniable problem, Dan, you know, became something that it was just, I was no longer able to ignore. If you'll allow me to virtuous virtue signal for just a moment, it was about 22 years ago that I stopped eating meat. When I, you know, I saw I started to struggle with how much resources were required to create the same sort of calorie of plant protein versus animal protein. And I just couldn't get by with that in mind, that's a bit weird. And that was kind of coupled with, you know, I seen with my own eyes or guns, snorkelling on the Great Barrier Reef in 1992. And again, in 2004, in on the same spot, and I was just bamboozled and horrified at what I saw, and, and as the years roll on, and the conversations aren't getting any more progressive, the need to start to talk about this stuff is bigger and bigger. I think, for me, oh, we can talk about it later, as far as you know, the kind of conversations that I've had around this. But Mike's got a really important point there that there's so much more going on. That trying to drive conversations about it is is really, really the only thing that I'm possibly able to do. I mean, I'm not Mike, I can't organise a massive battery to happen, you know, the way that he was able to do, but I can't have conversations and I can, like, if it gets to the point where the bloke accounts, the roses on your television and talking about climate change, it's time we did something. Okay.Dan Ilic 22:02I really love that. That's great. Um, Mike, did you? This is a kind of a strange question to be asking. But I, you know, I certainly ask it from a good faith position. As someone who has worked in climate kind of activism for a while. There may be some people out there who feel like you're a Johnny come lately to this space. Do you feel any kind of resentment from from folks out there? I mean, are you out to steal climate campaigners Limelight?Mike Cannon-Brookes 22:30I mean, simple answer is No, man, I'm trying to help people solve a problem. I've been lucky enough to get myself in a position where when I speak my mind, people listen, which is great. And like Asha is for a totally different reason. Right? When he speaks, people listen, and to solve the problem, as I said, I think you need a lot of different things. Right? And so while Yeah, sure I get on Twitter every so often, and cause a bit of a stink, I mean, have a very large fund. Now, I think we're north of a billion dollars in personal investments between my wife and I and sustainability initiatives. So you know, whenever people say and put your money where your mouth is, I'm like, that's not quite true. And, you know, fortunate enough to be able to back large projects and really make a difference and change things. Have a very different storytelling ability to Asha, because you come from a technology and economics point of view, where you can say, Hey, I firmly believe solving this problem is is an economic problem. It's as much a finance issue as a wholesale thing. I'm glad you said, Mr. Owen before, as it is a technology issue, right? I firmly we don't need a another panel, we need ways of getting more panels out more quickly. And that becomes a finance equation. Right? We can talk about that. But the nexus of technology and science and economics is a really important point to have communicatedas well as that I've got, you know,Unknown Speaker 24:03I don't know, IMike Cannon-Brookes 24:04suppose abilities to to, you know, talk to politicians and talk to opportunities. You call them amazing opportunities, right. And, and it's great. Often when I talk to them, I'm like, trying to convince them to see how the future is going to be it's almost the as I said to someone else, the curse of people that live in technology is we see what's going to happen 1020 years down the line, but we live in a disruptive, constant world. That's what we do. And you're like, well, this is how it works. And they're like, Oh, no, but you know, the power stations have been like this for 30 years and you're like, no, you're operating on 1982 economics like this is not this is just not how it works today. So I justDan Ilic 24:38love I just love watching you on q&a Monday and just the ability to cut through politicians speak with just in effect effectively. You didn't say what you're saying is bullshit but the way you said it said Oh, sounds like bullshit, butUnknown Speaker 24:55I was warned notOsher Gunsberg 24:56use the word bullshit, which is why use the word buncombeMike Cannon-Brookes 25:00I would I was just one on this one. So I hope that was all right.Dan Ilic 25:04No, I think you're allowed to say whatUnknown Speaker 25:07your look looks likeMike Cannon-Brookes 25:08politicians have a tough job though, because they, they're trying to get elected, right, almost like their primary goal is to get elected. And then their second goal is to get something done. Yeah. And I don't think it should be that way around. But that's the reality of, of what's going on. Right. And so if you don't have to get elected, you can say, well, the correct answer is actually to do this. Let me explain to you why that answer is correct. Rather than, like, let me give the answer that's correct enough to get me elected, but we'll make some form of progress.Dan Ilic 25:38You You both both of you, Mike, and I should have been on q&a, Mike, last night. On Monday night, you were you're very much facts and figures, driving home, what you know, and driving home a vision of what could life could be Asha, your experience was a little different on q&a. It was it was had different kind of words attached to it, you know, very emotional kind of hope and grief are all tied into that. What What was that experience like being on q&a and kind of talking about climate on q&a for you?Osher Gunsberg 26:07Well, for me, if anybody knows my story, it was initially it was quite terrifying. Because I actually had quite a horrible episode of climate anxiety that tipped up into the actually episodes of psychosis and manifested as paranoid delusions. And I was actually when I was living in North America at the time, I was living in Venice Beach and I would go for run down the beach, and I would I try to see the oceans swallowing the houses along the boulevard, there it was, it was really, really horrible. And so it's still Yeah, it's tricky. You know, feeling anxiety having this conversation right now. But for me, being with that discomfort being with that is the only antidote that there is to this and being an action is the only antidote that there is to climate anxiety. You can pretend that it's not there, like a cancer diagnosis, you can wish it doesn't exist. You can carry on buying packs of diaries, you can just keep going and pretend everything's gonna be fine. But you know, that thing is messed metastasizing inside your body is eating you from the inside. Similarly, we just kind of have to be with it. We have to be with how grievous we need to fail, you know, and I did say it across the summertime when I started to see it in other people's eyes, people were talking to me because I've read my book and now like, are you are I actually am because I can see the fear that I saw in myself and other people now. And I get the feeling that I'm not I'm not alone, you know, obviously down experiencing what I was experiencing, because my fear was an irrational fear, Dan, but they get it. And the only antidote, once you've had that time to grieve, and you, once you start to realise it, I think this is what conversations about climate are so hard, because once you start to realise, like, hang on, we've done what, and even if we did everything tomorrow, it would still be worse for like, 20 years. What, like, that's a horrible thing to suddenly realise. And of course, it's confronting, and people don't want to talk about it. And giving people space to feel that is important, and allowing them to be with that grief, because it's only once you've sat in it and gone right then, well, I guess waterfalls of crises are a good thing. Um, what can I do? And then you move into action. And that's really the only thing and that's really what I was trying to talk about on q&a was like, being inaction is the only antidote to climate anxiety.Dan Ilic 28:19Yeah. And, Mike, you are a person of action, you were just talking about kind of your ability to kind of leapfrog competitors and innovate. And to use that overused Wayne Gretzky quote, you know, skating where the puck is going to be, is Australia skating where the puck is going to be?Mike Cannon-Brookes 28:35Look, I don't think we are, but I think we should be. I think perhaps,I think that the climate change problem, let's face it, the climate crisis writ large is an incredibly hard problem to solve. Right? And part of the reason it's incredibly hard problem to solve is because it's a prisoner's dilemma by nature, right? Anytime you have someone bullshit you and say, oh, we're only like a couple percent of the problem. So why do we bother? Let's Let's write it. It's like, okay, you can get upset about that. But it's going to require the entire world to come together and solve this run. However, for Australia, we have this amazing opportunity, which should frustrate us even more, because we actually have an opportunity in this. It's not just doing our 2%. It's the ability for us to build, literally the future of our country. And I think when we talk about skating, where the puck is going to be, it's not about solving again, this is where, you know, long ago now I was all about 200% renewables because just literally it is a thing that makes people think, what do you mean 200%? It's because this is an opportunity for us. We've never been able to have more energy than we need, until you think about it and go Actually, that's all we do. Export is energy. Well, that's all we export. But when I talk about fossil fuels, we are exporting energy. All we're saying is we were evolved that to export a different type of energy. That's an opportunity for us and we have just such an amazing opportunity, not just resources, you've probably had lots of people in the last two days. He's talking about sun and wind and how it could power the entire world five times over from Australia, etc. That's all totally true. We also have the opportunity in the finance community, in the talent we have here. If you think about anybody that's built large scale infrastructure projects, I care if you're building a coal mine, or a large energy export project of a different kind, you need large scale project management, you need project finance, you need engineering, you need electricians, you need all sorts of different bits and people to make this. We have all that expertise in Australia. And we have the resources and the talent. And we need to get people back to work in massive numbers. We're talking about skating where the puck is going to be the single greatest frustration at the moment is that we don't see this as an opportunity and economic opportunity that we should be embracing, which is like never before five years ago, it wasn't true, right? We didn't have the cost models and stuff that we do today.Dan Ilic 30:54that that would be scanning with the puppies. I think, you know, the the notion of 200% renewables or 500% renewables totally blows my mind. It's like, yeah, of course, like, it totally makes sense. And it really annoys me when you when we hearing at the moment, particularly with hydrogen that came out in the Technology Roadmap, and how hydrogens can be made with gas, brown hydrogen, and there's like, what do you like? What are you doing when we've got all this other energy we could use to make hydrogen and we've got the water, we are good by water. We are good by the resources that we need. We like we're good by Sun and water, like good. We think good. Dory anyway. So anyway, I get really annoyed when I hear these, you know, myopic ideas that kind of lock us into into fossil fuels when it's so obvious that that we could execute on something far more innovative.Mike Cannon-Brookes 31:45I should say that we have a sundrenched land with boundless less planes that a windswept? Yeah, well, you can, you can keep going down lots of poetry and be like, we literally want this a long time ago.Dan Ilic 31:57Do that someone will write it, write it down and put it in Comic Sans and email to their uncle. And it'll be used as irrefutable evidence against climate change. So I'll share for you who is someone who is kind of globally minded yourself, like what what would you like to see Australia take to Glasgow next year in terms of in terms of plan?Osher Gunsberg 32:18Um, look, I think the most important thing as as extraordinarily humongous as the the investment that Mike is working on with his wife, and you know, the other people that we've heard over the last two days, we really are going to have to make our country safe for foreign capital, in the in long term policy, we really going to have to make it safe, because if we're gonna get out of this, we are absolutely 100% going to need foreign investment, we're going to need investors to feel safe, and that their investments will be good for 2030 more years here in Australia. And that's what that's what's gonna have to happen. When I first went overseas to study a couple years ago. Anyone that's talked to a Dutch person will understand the directness. Hi, I'm from Australia. Oh, really? What's going on with your country? Why does the carbon tax Why? Why do you still dig up so much coal, and I found myself like having to apologise to this classroom for the people. We are at enormous risk of being overlooked by the international community and the international investment community. I think the days of Australia being like, oh, that kind of scruffy larrikin that gets a roof over here and a pat on the back and off you go, you know, the little schoolboy that's gone over, if we're not clever, we're just gonna get left out of the opportunity, the extraordinary global opportunity that's ahead of us. And countries with sun and wind and bandwidth plans to stay will they'll be the ones that that get the cake and we will be sitting around going. Alright, I guess it is yes. Pacific bass. Oh, yeah.Dan Ilic 33:47It I mean, it is so strange seeing how Bacary out a whole bunch of things. Mike, you you have been having conversations with a lot of politic politicians. The Liberal government is all of a sudden becoming a market interventionist, you know, with what they do with guests, but out of chat with us, as well as energy minister Matt Cain on my podcast a few weeks ago, and he actually said very few, very few liberals are actually into fossil fuels. If that's the case, why do we have the situation today where the federal government is really backing fossil fuels, but the states and territories are leading the charge in renewables? That what is that? What does that disconnect between the states and the federal, federal politicians?Unknown Speaker 34:27How many hours? Do you have the answer that IDan Ilic 34:28think we've only got 25 minutes. ButMike Cannon-Brookes 34:31look, look, I think for sure the states are taking charge, which is awesome. You could argue to be to be charitable. It's one of the positives of the way that our Federation is constructed, that we do have different groups that can kind of move forward in different ways. I think obviously mats doing a great job in New South Wales. We have a lot of other states are doing an amazing job. I would remind people that the AC T is 100% renewable now. And that's where the parliamentarians federally sit in Parliament House. So that always makes me Ah, feel good that we have one of theDan Ilic 35:04few only I'm sad. Often houses in the world, in fact markets, the wind from all those politicians that gets those windmills going. SoOsher Gunsberg 35:12thank you, Dan. Thank you. You can see yourself as myDan Ilic 35:14Yeah, I could write for The Daily Telegraph with puns like that.Mike Cannon-Brookes 35:19Look, I think it's it's a it's a complex issue, right. The federal issue obviously involves lots of different complexities that the state driven issues don't. Right. But we have to, we have to work this out. And, again, we have netzero commitments, I believe in every state and territory now, but not federally. So there's a lot of argument about whether it matters federally, does it actually matter? And the answer is, I think it still does matter. But it doesn't matter as much as it would have done if we didn't have one. Right. So I do think we are getting that moving in the right direction. There are certain things that are federally controlled, that we need to move forward on and and to be fair to them they've done put the gas stuff aside for a second. The renewable any energy infrastructure investments, they're making transmission was there great. Like we totally need those and they have to be legit federally done. They announced, you know, for Star, the south and other things that they are federally. Finally, you and I either took too long. Okay, great. wherever we are, we're gonna move forward. framework for offshore wind and offshore other things. Again, we have massive offshore resources, price of offshore has converged to basically the same as price of onshore now. So they are moving in the right direction. Would we like them to move faster? Sure. Does it help to talk and keep pushing and keep moving? Yes, I think it really does. I think theyou know, what, great state and federal we need byDan Ilic 36:52Yeah, I understand that. But I mean, with all this the state with the state territories with the states and territories or committing to net zero by 2050. It shouldn't be hard for the federal government government said, yeah, we are going to commit to net zero by 2050. Because the states are doing it. So we're going to absolutely do it. And it's it's it's like pure leadership play. And it doesn't it doesn't dog whistle to fossil fuel industries or their bass or anything like that. But having a flag in the ground, everyone can run towards it. And coal is still going to be mined, there's gases still going to be pumped. But it's a federal signpost that says yeah, we're we are also good actors in the world. Like it feels like this. It's an opportunity completely missed. And it sends the wrong signal to our neighbours and other people where you know, other people in the world we have to deal with.Mike Cannon-Brookes 37:39Absolutely don't I mean, don't get me wrong in Madrid, we were an international prime. Right, three countries blow up those towards us, Saudi Arabia and Russia. And that not a club that you generally want to be a member of when it comes to basically what what you're doing international diplomacy, etc. Right? Why did we do that over Kyoto credits? Right, like for all the bullshit you want to put around it, that is the literally the reason that we did that. Europeans were trying to make the credits that we're trying to apply for which by the way, should never have been, they were not written into the agreement. It's total bullshit. I forget. It was on was it on q&a, someone else said, it's like, going to your second marriage and saying, Oh, I did a lot of dishes in the first one. In the second marriage, I was like, that is the best. That's why we need crave storytellers like Oscar. And that was like, the explanation. That is literally what we're trying to say is it's a different accounting system in Paris and Canada, like they're completely different. Yeah, but we were not good internationally. How many years? Can you turn off and be not good internationally, and then ask for other things, and we need strategic international diplomacy in our region. We want to be a world leading group. We have to have that. Yeah. We had shut up in Glasgow, and that should have been right now. Without anything, we would have been locked out of the room. IDan Ilic 38:59Ah, yeah, I get a feeling I get. I get I get the feeling we're still gonna be left at the room with this technology roadmap, but I don't know if that'll change between now then.Mike Cannon-Brookes 39:08I'll show up with just the Technology Roadmap in Glasgow in 12 months time and expect to have any respect on the international community when it comes to climate and emissions.Yeah. We can Trump adjust thatDan Ilic 39:22will lose all that power. Again, I'll shut in the space leadership is hard. And especially in you know, the climate space. Everyone has the ability to unlock their own personal power to affect change. You're a solo operator, though, but but you have enormous power in reaching audiences. Can you kind of paint us a picture of how you use your personal power to try and affect change in the positive ways in space?Osher Gunsberg 39:45I'm just another middle aged white guy in the public eye talking about something that you know he feels is a you know, compassionate thing. Yeah.Dan Ilic 39:53As many people have pointed out to me on twitter at this is what this panel is Yes,Osher Gunsberg 39:58yeah. The three whitest dudes in the room. Look, I've been in one way or another in the corner of people's television, like in the corner of people's living rooms for the past 21 years or so. So, I that buys me about an extra four seconds of your attention, you know? Because I that's that guy. Oh, yeah, the thing, what's he talking about? That gives me about an extra four seconds and a lot can happen in that four seconds, a lot can happen as far as getting people to consider, there might actually be something going on here, you may actually have a lot more power than you then you realise. And, and just try to I guess, you know, model through. I mean, I've had a lot of success on my podcast through having conversations about like, just modelling what a conversation about mental health can look like. And that has been extraordinarily helpful to a lot of people, and has been quite profound as far as effecting change. Similarly, I tried to have conversations on my on my podcast that actually sound like two adults discussing this challenge and the incredible opportunities because I think as a nation, we plant like I'm just trying to fill a gaping, aching chasm of getting the feeling like as an adult in the room that causes extraordinary anxiety in the community. We know that our government believes in science, that's how we crushed the curve on COVID. All right, we know that they're willing to spend money on things that mean something to them, they just don't want to spend money on this. We know they're not people who don't believe in graphs. There are graphs. There's current, there's there's curves, there's curves, there's things there's capacity of hospital capacity that we're all very aware of shiners they know how to read a graph. So here's a similar graph, different colours, similar capacity for sustaining life. So don't tell us you don't know what it's about. I think it's just the feeling that there's, you know, there's this kind of feeling of dread within a community that, that mom and dad just too busy arguing in the front seat, and I don't know where we're driving the kids in the back of losing their mind, we as a nation, we just want to know that mum and dad have got this, we want to know that the adults in the room are taking charge, and we'll be cool, we'll be alright. That's all we need. And we'll be fine. All right, we'll get on with doing our jobs, you get on with doing yours. And I think through that through my ability to have a conversation and a rational conversation in public on Well, this is what it sounds like to talk about the reality, to discuss the grief of what we're losing what we will lose what we cannot ever get back. And then to talk about the opportunity, extraordinary chance we have right now to rebuild that country, for our children, for our grandchildren. It's astonishing, that we don't have these conversations on a wider level and haveDan Ilic 42:26Can you tell us what your audience is feeling when you have these conversations? What kind of feedback you get, particularly on your climate conversations? What like, what are they saying to you?Osher Gunsberg 42:34I think it's a two handed thing, because I don't think you can fully appreciate, you know, the way I try to talk about it, Dan, it's I think that it's not like we don't have the ability to discuss this, we have all the ability to handle the psychology behind inaction on climate already. Okay, it is the same denial. And I can speak to this from my own experience as someone who's been sober 10 and a half years, it's the same denial that you have around alcoholism on the signs, and all you have to anything you're addicted to the amount of justification, the amount of manipulation, the amount of lying, the amount of I don't know should be right should be right? The amount of constantly using this thing that you know, is ultimately going to kill you. But you're so terrified of change, and you just can't picture any other way you keep doing it. That is that's the type of alcohol gambling, sex, whatever. Here we are, folks, here we are. But the thing about being addicted is it's a life of restriction. When you're addicted to anything, things just get smaller and smaller and smaller. Once you find your way into sobriety from that addiction, once you become recovered from that addiction, the opportunities just explode. All right. And I've seen this time and time and time again, the same psychological things that we have within our brains, that we've used to find help for people who are addicted to substances we can use to help people find out of this situation.Dan Ilic 43:51I totally agree with you there. Like just even having a summit like this is really important by having people who are knowledgeable and understand what the future could look like to be able to paint what that future looks like, can unlock a whole bunch of hoping everyday people like you, like you wouldn't make sorry, might not count counting you like an everyday person because you're in this industry. But like, you know, regular Joe's to kind of think big about what the future could look like. Mike listening to this for you, who has someone who has put climate at the centre of their business and their businesses, and someone who has really put their money where their mouth is, what should other businesses do? Like what's what's a great way a great simple way to get the ball ball rolling, if you if you run teams or you you run businesses, what's the great way to kind of get the ball rolling in this space to really start applying pressure to change the way they do things.Mike Cannon-Brookes 44:46Um, probably depends on which sort of business you're running, I suppose for large businesses, I think, and again, this is what for me it comes down to economics. I I'm a deep believer. I should say that Start that the money like that drives things. Economics drives things like economics is a study of human behaviour. Actually, it's not a study of money, right? It's about utility. And you know, when you get into supply, demand and etc, we have rational actors and game theory and everything else, right? The best way to solve this problem, if you ask me is solving the economics. And what's frustrating is we've gotten to the point that the economics is favourable. So just like if you have a house in Australia, and you're not one of the 3 million households that has panels on the roof, and you own that house, I realise if you're insisting upon building, we've got to solve those problems separately. Putting panels on will save you man, like, it's almost like, there's enough financing options out there to get those panels for free onto your roof, that you're just kind of giving away money by not having them on your roof, right, that's an economic problem that's in a good spot, not quite as batteries, but we will get there, right? If you're running a business, for some reason, people go to the business and don't think the same way. Right. One of the things I've done a lot of work with Ari 100, which is a great group trying to drive globally started by IKEA and Microsoft and Lego and others. Atlassian was one of the first members in Australia. And now we've got, I think all of the big banks and a whole bunch of other great members, john D, runs out has done a fantastic job driving large scale corporates to join. The biggest reason that convinces him to join is they will save money for their business, a business will run cheaper, right? And if you want to talk to business and get them to move, that's often the best way to do it. Right? is like, hey, what if you build next he was $8, not $10. Like, Hey, I'm interested, now I'm listening. He so I do think people's businesses can benefit from this in a financial way, right. And you can feel good while doing it. There's nothing wrong with feeling good about what you're doing. But the same problem for the the nation of Australia in terms of this could create shitloads of jobs. Oh, hang on, man. I've seen the guys into my visit. And they're not they're not doing renewables. I'm like, most of the hottest jobs being created today are in renewables. Like, we're gonna have a debate about narrow bar versus renewable energies. And in terms of jobs, the energy on whenDan Ilic 47:09I don't know, whoever's running Smart Energy summit sound video right now, if you could just go back and capture Mike's last 30 seconds, that'd be a great gift.Mike Cannon-Brookes 47:18It is the frustration. But you should take that home your business, I guess is what I'm saying is the economics of what we have in terms of today's technology is really good for your business, for your household, and for the nation of Australia because of the resources we have. And that is what the story that we need to keep telling. And it takes people a long time to understand that that is the story. And understand that that story will be better every single year. But it's already positive economics for the country. The business there. SoDan Ilic 47:51is that kind of what you fundamentally believe that others don't believe Mike, what's is that the disconnect?Mike Cannon-Brookes 47:58Yes, I believe it's a finance and economics problem. That's the best way to solve it. There's probably one thing I fundamentally believe that often others don't believe how to speak for everybody else. It's a bit like for me, it's like recycling, right? If I tell you that you should recycle 5% of population will be the do gooders and do the right thing. Soon as I pay five cents a bottle, it's like 80% of people will recycle or something. And so financial incentives and utilities actually do make a big sense in the economic world. So I do think it's a finance problem, we should remember that almost all almost all renewable technologies are large capital low input, if not zero input. What that means is all the money is spent upfront. And you know, you put panels on your roof cost you five to 10, grand, and then it's free after that you can get up with a shimmy and walk them every so often if you want to. So the 20 years are free. That's what financing does. Financing loans, etc, is about how do we make it so that you can get those panels cheaper, quicker, it's like a credit card or a mortgage. Right? These are exactly the same devices, we invented the mortgage in the Depression of the 1930s, to help people buy houses. And we said, You know what, you can live in that house for 30 years, we're gonna work out the financing equation, you're gonna pay twice the price of the house, or whatever it is over the time, but you're gonna like having a house. So this is really good. We invented the mortgage. We're constantly trying to do financing activities for all clean technologies, because the generally zero input cost, large scale capex up front, where finance is perfect. The second thing that I think I believe in is I believe in learning rights of modular technologies. deeply, deeply, deeply as a technologist. This is super important, and I believe far too few people understand this.Dan Ilic 49:37What is this elaborate on this? I don't know what you're talking about.Mike Cannon-Brookes 49:41It's all the panels batteries.Wind turbines. These are modular technologies, right? By that I mean, if I have one panel or a million panels, I just make more of the same thing. Right? It's why chips get cheaper is because we make slightly better chips and we make a bigger factories that make more chips right naturally. A lot of That ends up being more important, right? More of the reduction of the cost of a solar panel now is coming from manufacturing scale. And installation costs then from bit asides and building better panels. But these are modular technologies, they will always win once they reach the point of scale that begets the learning rate, which makes them cheaper, which means that they get more scale, which means that they get more money, right? If you're in technology, we've seen this in chips. We've seen it in cameras, the camera in your mobile phone in 10 years, improved quality per pixels per dollar a thousandfold. Right, so we got either 1000 times cheaper, or it got 100 times cheaper and 10 times more powerful or some combination, right? This is the way that technology works when that technology is modular. Lots of technologies are not modular, and that is unfortunate. So those learning rates do not apply to everything, but they do apply to solar batteries, etc. And they are like Moore's law and chips Swanson's law and solo. These laws aren't laws of physics, but they will happen next year, I've had discussions with politicians where I say Do you realise that batteries have gotten like 10 times cheaper or three times longer lasting or twice as light, or any of these sort of facts? Now I gave it you don't know that will happen next year. And I'm like, ah, but I do. I can't tell you in the next three months. But I can tell you if I look 234 years that will absolutely continue.Dan Ilic 51:25Like Don't take this the wrong way. But with with your hair and stuff, it looks into your hoodie, you could be like a wizard of technology.Mike Cannon-Brookes 51:33But this is like if we understood this, again, we would never build any more fossil technologies at large scale, because 30 years from now, it won't make sense, right? 10 years from now what makes sense. And we kind of know that based on today. But we seem to we struggle with that future pricing equation. A lot. The learning rate of modular technologies has to be understood, as has the financing questionDan Ilic 52:01asked, what about the scalability of podcasts? Are there enough a podcast and to reach enough people to convince them to jump on board this clean energy train?Osher Gunsberg 52:09I don't know how many middle aged white men are there? Because we all need a podcast? Look, honestly, I'm just just just just vibing on Mike cannon Brookes extraordinary, like Alan Malala is kind of ability to restructure and recreate our, you know, this problem and looking at it like an engineering problem, I really have to agree with what Mark was talking about there. As heartbreaking as it is, and you're here on this resume, because you have seen the graphs and you know what's going to happen. So you are here from an emotional reason, probably all right. There's very few people here from a financial reason, once it becomes a financial reason, this will change overnight. And I've got to acknowledge at how much it sucks to wait for that economic reason to become viable. But unfortunately, that is the way of the world. And we just have to wait. But it will absolutely. Mark's already talking about these tipping points where things the cleaner, greener option is the cheaper, scalable, more replicable option. But we just have to wait for that. Which is really, really horrible if you're an endangered species. But that's you know, that's that's the truth. That's whereMike Cannon-Brookes 53:12we've already got that point. It's coming. Right? Like we've already gotten on a number we should we all need to stop saying it's coming. It's here. It is here today. Yeah, right in a lot of technology. And we need to say that that we've reached that point. We are beyond that point. When people talk about the cheapest source of new power generation being renewables, they're telling the truth, but they're also a couple years late. And so as a community or whatever, we need to stop saying these things are coming in the future. These both will create jobs and cheaper energy. And this is like today's world, not Tomorrow's World one Exactly. To get thrown around is fun. I'm not saying it's wrong on the fly. But why politicians is Yeah, we need some more technology, like in five years or 10 years or 20 years. We'll get there. I'm like we're fucking there right now. Yeah, we need to keep saying that. I can't stress that enough.Osher Gunsberg 53:58I'm agreeing. I'm agreeing with you market just yet. Which is like the I'm what I'm doing is I'm agreeing saying like the idea of pushing people to understand that the financial decision is the right decision right now. It's the emotional decision. That's the thing that people reacted, that's they will go, Oh, no, no, no sort of thing on Facebook. If it's an emotional decision, people want to shut it down and reject it. But if it's financial decision, people go, hang on what I can save money. And then that's the way that's the way and so to answer your question, Dan, I don't know how many podcasts but definitely conversations and it's everyday conversations. And it's literally is when someone says, gee, it's a nice day today. Yeah, it is. It's 30 degrees. It's the fourth of September shouldn't be 30 degrees.Dan Ilic 54:37question here from Christine mill. Mike. Have you considered the batteries on on the mainland? will eclipse pumped hydro storage based in Tasmania, and we'll leave the lettuce stranded.Mike Cannon-Brookes 54:50Ah, look, that's a deep nuance energy question. I don't do my Tasmania and I believe that leaves a lot of stranded because there it's already built. so pumped hydro has a 50 year lifetime. And if you've already kind of paid off the capex, then you should be okay with that. pumped hydro is a good example of a non modular technology. Every time you build pumped hydro, largely, the pumps are modular. But the engineering required to work out this piece of water, that bit of water, the pipes, the pumps, the the the angles, like it's an engineering project engineering projects are not very scalable. I can find any field and roll out solar panels with, you know, very, very quickly. So, yes, they will. I think one of the big things for Australia is probably about snowy Hydro and snowy hydro two, and specifically, whether that's a good investment or a bad investment. I generally fall down that that's a good investment, not a great investment. It is not the best thing we could have done with that amount of money. But it's not a terrible thing to do with the money. Right. From the point of view of storage. Will batteries be cheaper by the time that is ready? That is a great question.Dan Ilic 55:57Yeah, another question about the New South Wales government, which today has announced the neraby the narrabri gas project is going ahead, Mike, what are your thoughts on that project? Does it have a chance of being found?Mike Cannon-Brookes 56:09You're gonna get a shitload of hot water here? Um,firstly, I think it was the independent planning commission that said they could go forward from what I understand not the New South Wales, I'm not sure how the relationship between those two To be fair, but I'm not sure if it was New South Wales Government stamp that I can I can ethically disagree with that. At some level, I have to hope that they've all done their correct work on planning and everything else and have the right controls. I don't know if the project will go forward from a financing perspective. If I was Santos, and looking at the finances, I would think that would be a struggle to get up and running. You know, you need to be betting on $1 A Giga Joule gas a long time in the future for that to all make sense. Look, if they're going to put private capital and we've done the environmental concerns, that's fine. I don't have to agree with it personally, right. But at some level, you can't just always be tearing down the structures that we have that said, Do I think it's necessary? We're gonna bring Australia's power prices down? Absolutely not like let's, I'm very clear with gas. Give me the word off the gas.Dan Ilic 57:13And then let's separate all these concepts because the blurring of the stories gets very confusing, like I said, on q&a. There's the extraction, there's the transport, there's the price is aMike Cannon-Brookes 57:24totally different things and totally different timescales. Right, if you're talking about the next three to five years, and beyond any of that three or five years, right, they'll probably still be debating various concerns about groundwater and salt and all absolutely valid things to be debating three years from now,Dan Ilic 57:41do you get you get phone calls from the guest lobby? Mike, do you get phone calls saying Hey, Mike, let's turn maitain into us thing get on our side? I just wanted to say that jack, another question from Blair heavyMike Cannon-Brookes 57:52told me that we've got call in the coalition and I'm gonna tell you there's also lithium ionUnknown Speaker 57:58highMike Cannon-Brookes 58:01in there, right, we've just got to flip it from one to the other.Dan Ilic 58:03Blair asks my cow can the current government refuse to even see the economic benefits and pick a polluting now done energy source such as gas when it so clearly does not make financial sense? So like, what what is that? What decision Do you think in your mind that they've made?Mike Cannon-Brookes 58:22Look, this is where a politician has very different job than that's how our society works, right? I understand that they are trying at some level to navigate themselves away from coal and get two other things right. And and the way they did the transition fuel is also a transitionary policy platform of fossil fuels that gets you kind of away without any elegant this dismount. I don't think we need that dismount. Right, but you might need it. If you're trying to get elected, that's totally different. We don't need it from an energy point of view. We don't need it from a country point of view. We don't need it from an economic point of view. However, they are, we should give them credit. Again, sometimes people like to make these things black and white. And the answer is always a bit of grey, we should give him credit. The largest announcement made two weeks ago was a couple of hundred million bucks for renewable and energy infrastructure, transmission infrastructure. That was the largest dollar commitment. The largest job commitment was the same thing. So sometimes the announcement it's important gets buried in the, you know, the other stuff. Secondly, I think it's really important and what I would like to keep repeating, there was an implicit, we're moving to 100% renewables. In those announcements. This is the first time the government has said that on the other side, we had Alba's saying we're going to be renewable energy superpower. Let's focus on the long arc of time. That was a stratospheric shift from our current government to implicitly say whether they said we're moving to hydrogen, you definitely need gas. Let's spend a lot of time talking about gas. Wait a second. Let's go back to what you just said. Up front. You admitted we're moving on grid to 100% renewables and beyond. That's a big step. I get why you didn't like that the headline, even though I would make that the headline, and you can argue it's took too long. Doesn't matter. Yeah, we're gonna get there.Dan Ilic 1:00:09Is it gonna be like the NBN? Like it? They'll say that in 50 years time, they'll be like, Oh, you know what we were wrong back then we're actually actually gonna really goMike Cannon-Brookes 1:00:17down again. Again, one of the reasons we're trying to keep them honest, I suppose about this Ladell replacement thing, and they've already come down from 1000 megawatt hours, which by the way, is a classic. If you're a politician, You make it sound bigger. You can't make it one gigawatt.Unknown Speaker 1:00:29What are they? What are they 1000 megawatts becauseMike Cannon-Brookes 1:00:31it sounds bigger. I'm like, well, let's make it a million kilowatt plant. It's a billion watts. I don't understand the numbers. But anyway, let's just say it's already gone from 1000 megawatts to 250. Right? Wow. I put my money that never gets built.Dan Ilic 1:00:44I think it was seven times a court who said that he read a tweet from his last week that a 250 megawatt plant was run by 13. People think of all the job it will create.Mike Cannon-Brookes 1:00:55Hundred 50 megawatt plant. We instal that much residential solar every month in this country. Wow. 250 megawatts a month. Right. So let's go forward three and a quarter years. That's 10 gigawatts of residential solar installed without any growth whatsoever. If it flatlines from here, and it's growing like this. So if it flatlines, we'll get 10 gigawatts, two or 50 megawatts as much as people want to say it's big, it's fucking tiny. Right? It's a tiny, tiny, tiny amount of our grid, it won't get built, unless the government forces it in with subsidies. And if they do, tell us how much the subsidy is or how much the investment is, and I'll give you 345 better options. straightaway.Dan Ilic 1:01:35They were sending something really telling I think on insiders when spezia was interviewing skybow talking about not committing to the net, net zero 50. And scomo was like oh, yeah, no, we'll get in it serious 50 by the end of the century,Unknown Speaker 1:01:49it's like God, it's so frustrating.Dan Ilic 1:01:50And I think kitaen Joshi wrote a great piece saying, well, by the government's own admission, their emissions will get to net zero by 2300. I don't think I don't think that's a don't think we have a long arc of time, is what is what particular Blair's replied to me saying we don't have a long arc of time as well. I don't think we have that long arc of time to actually make these changes. How can we accelerate that? Or how can we put pressure on as, as voters to get our politicians to accelerate those changes to push for net zero 50 or net zero by 30? In the process,Osher Gunsberg 1:02:24it's got to be where you spend your money, Dan, we vote every three years or whatever down the state schools, but we vote every single day where we spend our dollars. I think there was a like a 2014 study out of Princeton that show that public protest often has a like a near zero impact on on government policy. What makes people stand up is where people are suddenly not spending their money. That's where decisions get made. And we have that choice. As a nation, we have the choice of we all decided to go like one day a week without buying petrol. People would lose their minds as a whole nation when when that's it. We're not buying petrol for a week, because when upset about the way the fuel lobbies done, it would be changed overnight. All right, we have that power, we absolutely have that power. It's just in the organisation. And it's where you spend your money. As Mark was saying, if you start if the rooftop solar keeps going in that direction. There's no way that the industry won't adjust to that. But that's people making a decision on the bottom line of their household budget, hundred percent. And that's where we have the ability to affect change every single day. You are not powerless. Every dollar you spend is a vote.Dan Ilic 1:03:29Thanks, Ayesha. That was brilliant. I think we're out of time. So big thanks to Mike and and Brooks and Asha Gunzburg. It's been a real privilege talking with you and yelling with you about climate change and energy transitions. I had a real wonderful time. And really, this is a highlight of my year so far. And let's face it, it's 2020. So low standards, but still pretty good stuff I have to say.Osher Gunsberg 1:03:51Thanks, Dan. Thanks, Mike.Dan Ilic 1:03:52Thanks, guys. Thanks a lot, everyone.Unknown Speaker 1:03:56GM, great, a small podcastOsher Gunsberg 1:03:58of our generation. Well in what did you think of that?Linh Do 1:04:00That was great. I was surprised by how entertained I was. I mean, it makes sense. You had one of Australia's most famous TV people, although that said, given given that Asha did name dropping university, I feel I need to name dropping university as well. So I'm going to name drop Harvard. So there's a Harvard academic called Erica Genworth, who actually believes civil disobedience is not only the moral choice that we have for combating climate change or any sort of other social issue, but it's one of the most powerful ways of shaping world politics. So her research, one of the things I've geeked out on, looks at hundreds of campaigns over the last century, and it's found that it's 3.5% of the population engaged in a social issue. It has never failed to bring about political change. So yes, it's important where you spend your money for sure. But actually, that's really important in Australia, what what does that look like? That looks like 900,000 people actively engaging. So you know, last year school strike alone, we had 300,000 people attend and you know, there were many people who couldn't make it. myself included, I have the flu. As you know, even pre carpet, I knew it wasn't good for me to go and spread my germs. But we look at some of the populations around the world that you know, have taken measurable action on climate change. And what do you know, 3.5% of a population has engaged so cambre, which is you know, as mentioned, 100% renewable energy paired with now. They had over 3.5% of their population go to the climate marches last year. The same is the case in New Zealand as well and a bunch of other places around the world. So, dear listeners, never forget political action is still important. But other than that great interview.Dan Ilic 1:05:37Lynn, can we get Erica chin was on the show.Linh Do 1:05:40That would be amazing. I don't think she's a billionaire. And I don't think she's very famous on TV. But I think she has like some phenomenal thoughts around. Actually we can do more than just far and we can do more than just spend our money, how we show up and how we use our voices. I think Matt is just as muchDan Ilic 1:05:57Big thanks to rode mics Bertha foundation go neutral, Jacob round on the tepanyaki timeline. Also Big thanks to the Smart Energy Council for letting me publish this audio from this session here. irrational fear is back in two weeks, we're having a little bit of a break because we've been so flat out with Nina ayama, and Gretel a Jackson and the week after that with Zoe combs, ma and Concetta Cristo. And we'll be back with the greatest moral podcast of our generation in November, where we chat with YesI moseby. And Sophie marjanovic, who are organising a gigantic campaign for the Torres Strait, to take the Australian Government to the UN to fight them on their lack of climate action. It's a fascinating chat. You'll be in tears. I've just started editing it now. It's, it's really great.Linh Do 1:06:39I can't wait to listen to that, given our track record, I would think that they have a really good chance of winning. And there's so many cases again, around the world of people taking the government's to action. So got on the crew up north.Dan Ilic 1:06:52One of the interesting things about that chat I've had with those folks is that Sophie was saying that it doesn't matter if the UN comes down on the side of the Taurus, right? And Australia does nothing. It's often just a preset and like setting that precedent will allow other populations to take their countries to court and get the same result. And then those countries can take action. So even if we do if I call that something special we can give to the rest of the world.Linh Do 1:07:14Great. It's the least we can do given we won't even sign a biodiversity pledge.Dan Ilic 1:07:18Thanks for listening to irrational fears greatest moral podcast of our generation. Until next time, there's always something to be scared of. ByeTranscribed by https://otter.aiA Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/GoNeutralhttp://bit.ly/GoNeutralIf you want to support the podcast and take your car carbon neutral, with here: A real privilege to have this kind of line up —The Dollop’s Dave Anthony.The Bichuation Room’s Francesca Fiorentiniand former White House Director of CommunicationAnthony Scaramucci.And Lewis Hobba and Dan Ilic.We rip into this week's presidential debate and talk with former White House Director of Communication Anthony Scaramucci on how and why Republicans are campaigning to get Donald Trump out of office.PATREON:⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬜ 91%If you enjoy the podcast, chip in with Patreon. We’re at about 91% of covering the costs of making the show. Every little bit helps.As a supporter you can watch the live video recording of the show on Thursday nights at 8pm, as well as access our Discord community – it’s kind of like a chat room where we bounce ideas around for the writing of the show throughout the week.Go Neutral:Another way to support A Rational Fear is to offset the carbon emissions from your car with Go Neutral. For every $90 sticker Go Neutral will buy 3.5 tonnes of carbon offsets which is about the average yearly emissions for a car, and $5 of that comes to us. I registered my car last week and bought a Go Neutral sticker. Get yours with this special A Rational Fear link here: http://bitly.com/GoNeutralBig thanks to The Bertha Foundation, our Patreon Supporters and RODE Mics. Jacob Round, and David Bloustien.Dan Ilic 0:00Good morning, Louis.Lewis Hobba 0:01Morning Daniel. I soDan Ilic 0:02early in the morning for us. We don't ever do this at this time in the morning, but it's for a special occasion only.Lewis Hobba 0:07Yeah, it was a debate that was worthy of this kind of early rise.Dan Ilic 0:14And let's quickly wrap up that Patreon supporters, Fiona Parmenter, Phil Willis, Lizette, Sal, kovitch, Zen thoria West, have all chipped in the Patreon this week. Also a big special mention to Jason smail, who's taken up our top level Patreon subscription. He's paying 100 bucks a month for irrational fears. So thank you. He's one of the top of the tech guys in Silicon Valley. We travelled once to a marathon in bend in Oregon, to watch one of our friends do a marathon.Lewis Hobba 0:43I was waiting for the for the end of that I'm like, wait, wait, wait, you did a marathonDan Ilic 0:48to watch to watch someone do that or thought. This means we're up to 91% of covering on cost for the podcast or pretty much what Trump has paid in taxes in 2017. So jump onto patreon.com forward slash irrational fear to support the show. Another way to support irrational fear is to offset your carbon emissions from your car with go neutral for every $90 you could go neutral will buy 3.5 tonnes of carbon offsets, which is about a yearly emissions for a car and five bucks of that comes to us to go neutral. Click on the link in the show notes. I'm recording my end of irrational fear on gadigal land in the Euro nation. sovereignty was never ceded. We need a treaty. Let's start the show.Unknown Speaker 1:24A Russian mafia contains naughty words like bricks. Can bro.Unknown Speaker 1:30And comeUnknown Speaker 1:31and section 40 a rational fear recommended listening by immature audienceDan Ilic 1:37tonight after 232 seasons 2020 will be the final season of America it'll be replaced with reruns of Germany before it got good. And after the first presidential debate, the phrase come to Australia began trending on Twitter, like till Americans find out that we have three Guantanamo Bay's and far right extremist proud boys respond to Trump's request to stand back and stand by by stepping forward and standing on desk to shout out Captain my captain. It's the first of October 2020 in America. It was fun while it lasted. This is irrational fear.This is irrational fear. Thank you for joining us. I'm former Kentucky Attorney General Dan Ilic. Let's make our fee mungus for this week, if the world's got you down you can guarantee our first guest will get you down even further. He is one half of the American history podcast the dollar Dave Anthony. Thank you Dave. Is there something you can say something you could say to cheer up our listeners? No. And she's known for speaking dick jokes to power but you can see her each week in her show news broke you can hear each week on her podcast the Situation Room and you can smell her each week putting the bins out it's Francesca fiorentini.Francesca Fiorentini 3:01It is very true. Very true. I compost but I don't actually have a compost. So I just put it in the trash. And like someone who's just really trying to feel better about myself. You know, that's it, just so I'm gonna almost almost help the world.Dan Ilic 3:20That's what this podcast is all about. You're very much on Brad. And he's a man unaccustomed to being up this early. So work it is the host of Triple J. Dr. Louis harbour.Lewis Hobba 3:29Yeah, I don't consider this work. Dan, this is fun.Dan Ilic 3:31Good. Doesn't it doesn't count as work until I stopped paying you. Robert a little later on. We've got a very special interview with former White House press secretary turned anti Trump fundraiser Anthony Scaramucci. Yes, the Butch will be here he will be joining us. But first, we've got a new sponsor. It's a bit of a library. This one here we go. Get my library music. Going to the post office can be hard. There's always long lines white supremacists hanging out there to pre screen your mail and throw milk on you. And even if you do manage to post your mail in ballot who knows how long it's going to take to get to the correct precinct for counting. And those election folks are always making mistakes putting the wrong addresses on things. This election season, make your mail in voting easy with stamps.ru stamps that are you We'll send you out a book of stamps for free that look just like us postage and you can stick them all over your mail in ballot. They'll even send you the latest updated address labels to make sure that your ballot gets to the right place so that you know your vote will be counted by someone with Wagner on their breath. Head to stamps.ru today to get a free trial from now until November that stamps.ru use the offer code Biden wins to get a free ballot facts Shredder. Who else gives you a fax shredder? It faxes your ballot to an international number beginning with plus seven then transit. Mellon voting has never been more secure with stamps.ru. Well, I mean they do pay us so it's great to have their money. Okay. humungus let's talk about the debate. There have been so many moments over the last four years when Donald Trump has almost risen to meet the demands of his office. And I think we can all agree that during last night's presidential debate, Donald Trump finally became Fira. I say debate. But it was so confusing. I thought I'd tuned into the two old guys from the Muppets breaking up. To be honest, when you think about what's going on in America and the world right now, they really should have conducted the debate of resume that way. Not because of Coronavirus or anything like that. But chris wallace would have had access to a mute button. But we lay different people took different things from the debate like conservative coalition Trump supporters who and this is true, complained that Biden didn't answer any questions. I mean, they're not run. Dive, let's start with you. How you feeling about Biden, should he have answered More questions?Dave Anthony 5:49Oh, well, that's a tough one. There's a couple of things with Biden, first of all, it's hard to answer question when a man just keeps jabbering at you constantly. Like there's no way it's good. But also, Biden needs a lot of time to ramp into his questions, make some mistakes, correct course. stutters Dumbo, correct course. So he needs a really long, long runway, and then he gets to come up and then crash the plane and then taken off again. So it's hard for him just in general. But But he he did, I would I would give him a two out of 10.Dan Ilic 6:25Fred, how did you feel that the debate? I'm,Unknown Speaker 6:29I'm worse than I could have imagined, you know, and you don't like I'm sure the entire world wants to see someone fillet Donald Trump on the national international stage. But no one more than an American who has to live under this regime. Let's call it what it is. So it's like, it's just the biggest you get so sorry for me, you get so hard. Like you're just like, Oh, you're so ready to go. When you watch a debate. And then, you know, did I wish there were performance enhancing drugs? Because Biden could not bring it he couldn't get it? I mean, look, he's in his. It happens. You know, in your 70s I'm sure it's only natural, not judging. But it was it was really it's hard. It's always hard to watch whether it's Clinton who you know, was respectable, or Biden who tried to level with people but really couldn't. You know, as a comic, you're like, just get some zingers. Just get a couple zingers make fun of his $70,000Unknown Speaker 7:32expense on his hair. That's it.Unknown Speaker 7:35Yeah, he and also the, the makeup factor the fact that they don't like how could you? How could you sit there and know he spent 70,000 on his hair and not say what are you paying for your makeup? $5 like just hit the guy. It's so easy. It's so easy. He is a walking talking thing to mock. It would just be non stop with anybody who just had their mental mental acuteness together suchLewis Hobba 7:58a tough ask I I have no idea how you would prepare to debate Donald Trump because you can go low. But if you do once you get down to that sort of street fight, he's so much better. There's no one better at kicking people in the balls on the street than he is. You do have to try to like, be there. But just like he makes you fight your fight it is. It's like playing like kids sport like on the 12 soccer or something. Sometimes a really shit team will beat a really good team, just because the complete lack of organisation throws a good team off their game.Unknown Speaker 8:32Yeah, I would just say though, that there is a there is a kind of comedian and David Letterman is that type of comedian who in his autobiography described how they were the Funny Kids, and he was the guy who made fun of the Funny Kids. So you need that type of person who knows how to undermine everything he says, and just keep making fun of what he is and what he's doing. highlight what he's doing and and make it seem really stupid, as opposed to just those direct hits. You take what he's saying, and you throw it back at him.Lewis Hobba 9:06Let's dive up to Is heUnknown Speaker 9:11coming? No.Lewis Hobba 9:13no introduction. Made the president Dave LettermanDan Ilic 9:17great. What we need is another white 70 year old guyUnknown Speaker 9:21in the room together, maybe they can do this job.Dan Ilic 9:25I'll form some sort of Voltron with the rector.Unknown Speaker 9:31I think Al Franken would have been the perfect sort of human being to run against him if he wasn't latch. You know, that's a drop. Like that type of that type of guy.Dan Ilic 9:41It didn't stop Trump did it?Unknown Speaker 9:44It didn't. It didn't. I mean, it's hard.Dan Ilic 9:46It's kind of trumpian logic to kind of say someone will do it better but I it during the entire debate. I just couldn't help but think what if Warren was up there, I really felt like she would have been an incredible attack dog and would have been on the front foot and would have smiled at him. And outpaced him every step of the way.Unknown Speaker 10:03Yeah, I think Bernie Sanders, same thing, but more on policy, which is not really what you need, you really do need sort of style, and you need to shut him up. And I definitely think you know, Warren in her attack, even on Bernie, which came out of left field, yeah, very dinero star Gary and in my opinion, I was like, you know, good, fine. Like she could have definitely handled that. The one thing that it said about Biden, God, if there is a silver lining, it's that he actually does Listen, like one He's, uh, he, you know, cognitively, he might be, you know, slightly a little bit less sharp than he should be. But his hearings great. And if that's any sign for how he might govern, hey, that's pretty good. If we can ever get over the other side, you know, like, he hears things, he hears people he can listen. And he had to do all thatLewis Hobba 10:57hearing through the pieces that he put in. That's reallyUnknown Speaker 11:01it's such a sad thing. This year, you're saying it's good that he can hearLewis Hobba 11:10your bass here? It's the equivalent of kind of going like he's just recovering from a fall.Dan Ilic 11:18Was there a moment for either of you that really made the moment of the debate?Unknown Speaker 11:22Well, you know, I'm a big climate change guy. So watching the talk about climate change really made my head just kind of snap and explode. And I wanted to really jump into the TV at first slap Trump and then slap Biden, like it was really just a,Dan Ilic 11:34they both weren't very good on that at all. Like, I know, it goes both ways. There Biden in the same paragraph, said, Doug, well, the green New Deal, the green new deal will pay for itself. And then he backed it up saying, Oh, I don't back the green new deal at all he got, he got really flustered. He was like selling something, and then immediately discounting it in the same breath. It was pretty astounding. Emily Atkins from the hated newsletter, right? The climate change section was the only section that Trump didn't interrupt because he didn't know what to say, because he doesn't know shit. And nothing particularly more when they started talking about fuel economy standards as a way to make the environment better. And upon that question, Biden said, Why have you relaxed fuel economy standards that are going to create more pollution from cars and trucks? And then Trump went on this one minute read? He said, Well, I've got it in front of me, I'm just gonna write it out fine. Like, well, well, well, not really, because what's happening is the car is much less expensive, and it's much safer car and you talk it about a tiny difference. And then what would happen because of the cost of the car, you would have at least doubled and triple the number of cars purchased. We have the old slugs out there that are 1012 years old, if you did that the car would be safer, it will be much cheaper by 30 $500. Nothing about climate change or emissions. Yeah.Unknown Speaker 12:48Was there for I feel like there wasn't even a full sentence in there. He but let me just say, though, that he This is truly the logic they're trying to spin not the Trump administration has rollback 100 environmental regulations, they want us to die as quickly as possible. They want to burn the planet as quickly as possible. But I will say, buried in one of their like Transit Authority, sort of summaries on why they were rolling back the emissions. They said, it's too late. Like that's almost a quote, essentially, why we're making all this money and the planets going to hell anyway. So it was like, he knows and that was the other thing is Biden not being able to come back and being like, you think this guy gives a shit whether you live or die like you want? This this man who laughed in the face of the wildfires?Dan Ilic 13:36Trump talking about how people in Europe live in forest houses. That was pretty exciting. There's so many city forces. Yeah, there's like everyone in everyone in Europe lives in fucking Fern Gully. That's what that's all I took away from that.Unknown Speaker 13:51I was a city I was like, I worked for city city.Lewis Hobba 13:57This was advertised like they're all blue.Dan Ilic 14:01And one of the things that often comes up after debates like this is people will journalists mainly on Twitter go wow. The only winner of tonight's debate a comedians. Dave, comedians, the winners of moments like this in American politics.Unknown Speaker 14:14No, no. What the fuck? Listen, the reason that they say that is because of Jay Leno. Jay Leno. He everything everything went to just being dumb. And he just and he had the dancing ido judges when when OJ Simpson was on trial, it was like there was no morality. He just did whatever it took to get a laugh. And so since then, everyone's been like the comedian is gonna love this. No, the comedians actually have like morals and understanding. And so they get actually comedians are actually generally terrified of fascism, where other comedians support it, but most of us were pretty as a group against fascism. So we're not actually really thrilled about a debate in which a guy just flat out comes out as a fascist. Not not great. Not Huge fan.Unknown Speaker 15:00He's so hack. I mean, this is the thing this is I Trump is hack himself. He's a bad drunk, open mic comedy doing racist, sexist material that only gets a laugh because people are astounded he's even doing it. So that's like the laugh is like the asshole laugh. And I'm tired so boring. You can feel an audience sigh when you start to bring up the president because you're like, Ah, you can feel it in the room because nobody wants to be reminded the guy is his own satire. So why, you know eijiro one about a you know, the the people believe that there is a mysterious figure named q shrouded in darkness that runs a sex cult underground and is trying to topple Donald Trump or like, Yeah, man, we're living in bribes. Like that's,Lewis Hobba 15:50that's right there. We came here for fun. Yeah, it is. It is genius, though. And I know this is not like a new point. But that that is the hard thing that to get over and get around, which is how to deal with someone who it is boring to bring up his constant failure.Dan Ilic 16:08Yeah, totally. And it's also difficult to be a comedian against someone who is genuinely quite funny. Like he is he makes him read a bit. Trying to hit funny with funny is so difficult with someone that's already undercutting the office themselves. It's so it's so strange.Lewis Hobba 16:25And it's just very hard to me like that guy's a white supremacist when he's like, Yes, I'm a white supremacist. I get it. When there's no shame. You need shame. If it like this, without shame, there's nothing to stick to. It's just the throwing shit at shame Teflon pan.Unknown Speaker 16:42But I still want to scrape the bottom of that pan though. Like I think there's more to go and I look I want him out in November or excuse me, by the end of you know, he won't leave but you know what I'm saying? I in an ideal world by JanuaryDan Ilic 16:55in an ideal world after a long protracted Civil War sometime 2023 you know, it'd be greatUnknown Speaker 16:59you know, when stuff smouldering you know, I'd like to be able, but before he goes, I really do want to see what else he'll do for by being baited into it. He drank water on camera because people baited him into it because they said he couldn't. I think he wears adult diapers and I want to bait him into like, will he and won't his audience and his base just cheer and elation when they see the jockey and they you know, like the scene and 16 candles or whatever. They're holding up the underwear. WhatUnknown Speaker 17:32I was saying yesterday is when they were coming out and saying Biden is wearing an earpiece, Biden should have said you can inspect me for an earpiece. If we can expect inspect Donald for diapers and then just left Italy and that would be the whole conversation and it would end.Unknown Speaker 17:48Europe they live that far cities they call forest cities. They maintain their forests, they manage their forests. It's a forest city.Unknown Speaker 17:56Your fear is rational.Dan Ilic 17:58Our interview guest on this week's podcast shot to fame for 11 days when he was White House press secretary before being unceremoniously fired by Trump making him one of the most memorable x cast members from the apprentice West Wing condition ever. By day he manages $9 billion funds by not he's raising money for the Lincoln project and anti Trump political action committee that's run by Republicans. Welcome to irrational fear Anthony Scaramucci. It's good to be here. Thank you guys for having me on. Oh, it's great. You know, we've we've got Francesca fiorentini. We got Dave Anthony and Lewis hubby here to go. Just before we go what's what's the most appropriate way to address us at Anthony Mr. Scaramucci, the moochUnknown Speaker 18:36all three of those names are better than some of the other names that have been used. So you can go with any of those names still be fine. Yeah.Lewis Hobba 18:43What's your least favourite?Unknown Speaker 18:46Oh, this is typical Ozzie question right. So I have to use psyops on you now and say Scaramucci. Call me anything you want. It's all good. I just think it's ironic. That's like your Southern Southern Italians and southern Australians are very similar. So I think I'm picking it up. Yeah, bothDan Ilic 19:05are riddled with Coronavirus.Unknown Speaker 19:07I think it's funny. Anthony, you're on a podcast with someone who's got more of an Italian name than you do. Francesca fiorentini. So,Unknown Speaker 19:15I noticed that right away Francesca even have more syllables than me, because I have a little bit of syllable envy right now.Unknown Speaker 19:23Italian.Dan Ilic 19:24Let's talk a little bit about the Lincoln project merge. How does someone who worked at the White House end up campaigning against the man in the White House?Unknown Speaker 19:31Well, you know, I wrote a lot about it back in 2019. But the short answer is I've changed a lot. I think the at the end of the day, one of my liberal critics, I think it was on television, they said well, you know, he was talking about Mexicans and rapists and 2015. And so in 2019, you disavowed your support. Nothing about him changed and my response was, well, maybe he didn't change but I have changed it become more psychologically minded, I become more aware of the tribulations and the stress that he's putting on other people. I become more aware that the ends, frankly, do not justify the means this whole moral equivocation about policy and cognitive dissonance. And so the you know, the answer to the question is it got to a point where it became impossible to support them anymore and maintain your personal integrity.Dan Ilic 20:27You didn't know that when you went into the White House?Unknown Speaker 20:30That's a big question. No, see, but no, you're asking the same question that my liberal friends ask. And so this is the big that kind of dilemma. 63 million people did vote for him. So I think you have to pay close attention to Why? Because everybody has a different reason for voting for him. So my reasons were, I was a lifelong Republican, I was working for Jeb Bush, he dropped out of the race. There were two people running it was Secretary Clinton, or, or then Donald Trump. And I made the mistake of going with Donald Trump because I was overlooking. And again, I don't justify this only now you do is apologise for it, I made the mistake of overlooking some of his moral shortcomings and some of his verbal rhetoric up because I thought it was the better of two choices. So I have to own that mistake. You know, I'm not one of these guys, that's going to sit here and try to defend it. All I can do is apologise for it. And so when you say that, I didn't know that the answer is yes, I did know that. But you're down to two choices. Imagine all of us are on the publicly traded Board of a company. And you're hiring two people, and the philosophical things that you've been with your whole career. I'm a lifelong republican i my first vote was for ronald reagan in 1984. And so I went with, that's where you went wrong? And that was a mistake. What's that?Unknown Speaker 21:50I said, that's where you went wrong foot in the first place?Unknown Speaker 21:53Yeah, well, listen, I mean, you know, there's a lot wrong with the Republican Party. So there's no question about that. I think that the republican party now, whatever you thought of it under Ronald Reagan, it is a very last party under Donald Trump, it's become a full blown personality cold, as an example of that is we don't even have a party platform in the Republican Party. You can't even I can't even tell you what it stands for anymore, because the party platform is whatever Mr. Trump wants. That's our party platform. So Karen and Vlad Amelie wash their way. And if you if you love the United States, maybe you do, maybe you don't. But if you do love the United States, I can tell you, we're our most successful when we have two very strong parties that are vigorously but civilly debating with each other and advancing the ball for progress both for the global community and for the citizens of the United States. And we're not doing that rightDan Ilic 22:41now. So you now you're fundraising for the Lincoln project? How is that process going? And how are the Lincoln project going in general, what what's their plan heading into the next five weeks?Unknown Speaker 22:52Well, I was on last night, we did live streaming before the debate, we raised a tonne of money last night, we've been doing a lot of zoom calls and gatherings remotely. And it's been very successful, they've raised 10s of millions of dollars. And their plan basically, is to eviscerate this son of a bitch. And over the next five weeks, they're going to do that. And if you look at the if you look at the ads that came out after the debate last night, I think these are very successful is what I would say to my FET friends that are Democrats, you guys got to knuckle up, you got a hard knuckle up, you have to understand the adversary better. You know, the Vice President did a good job last night. But you know, as I said to some members of his campaign, he needed an extra slice of pizza and a little bit of a spray tan or sit in the hot sun a little bit. You know, he he he needs to look more vigorous in debate number two,Dan Ilic 23:45and that's a very Italian yield thing to say I get a spray tan.Unknown Speaker 23:50Something he needed something last night because he looked to pay I was telling you the truth. He looked too pale and it looks like he's lost too much weight. You know? And you know, Francesca has probably the same mom as me. My mom has like optical nerve damage. She thinks everybody's thin, you know, you could show up 200 pounds overweight. She's like have a canola, you know, but but in the Vice President's case, he needs to be optically way more vigorous than he was last night. You know, and the good news is, you know, Donald Trump showed up the first thing I thought of when Trump showed up, he looked like the 1981 orange Corvette that I was trying to buy in high school, where unfortunately couldn't come up with enough money to buy it. That was the first thing I looked at. I mean, he literally had almost like an auto spray paint on his face. So he was optically also very disturbing.Unknown Speaker 24:37What's the breakdown of how much money from the link and project is actually going to ads and stuff? Because there's a lot of people online that say that you guys are just sucking in the cash.Unknown Speaker 24:47Yeah. Well, you'd have to ask the guys only remember, I'm not on the masthead of the Lincoln project. I am raising money for them. And I'm involved in a lot of the TV streaming but I have not taken a salary from the Lincoln Park. I'm not technically an affiliate. So meaning when you file for a packet United States, I'm not one of the name people on the pack, but I am somebody to supporting them in fundraising for them. That breakdown you'd have to get from them. I honestly don't care, whatever they're paying themselves, I think they're totally worth it. They have had the hardest knuckle ads in this election cycle, and they're having an impact on Trump, because I understand the President's personality once you're inside his melon, you can get him to do a lot of things that are mistakes for him and a lot of unforced errors. And I think the Lincoln project has been very successful about that. But because I'm not an officer of the Lincoln project, I don't know the answer of what those percentages are.Dan Ilic 25:43I like the idea. There's a boardroom somewhere with a whiteboard with a picture of a melon on it, and how can we get into the melon?Lewis Hobba 25:50Like So again, I youUnknown Speaker 25:51know, I can tell you, I can tell you an axiom that is totally true, because he lives in a reality distortion field, if you can get on the fox news channel, and you can speak with great truth and great clarity to his base. It sends him into orbit, literally, he's the atomic bomb emoji coming out of somebody's head, and then he'll start coming after you he'll start tweeting about you. I mean, he's still you know, he's still attached to me, he'll the last time he tweeted at me, I was on the fox news channel, explaining the destruction that he's caused to the US economy, to the destruction that he's caused to our healthcare system. Now, he's wait made us weaker, as a country as it relates to our global alliances. And so he went berserk and then started tweeting at me which, you know, listen, I'm totally capable of handling, you know, these these Republican senators. I pray for these guys, because they're very, very weak people. I mean, they're, they're intimidated by somebody that won the vote by 78,000 votes in three states. He's got them believing that he's ronald reagan from 1984. And they don't want to be tweeted at and it's sort of, you know, it's a profile in cowardice, as opposed to what Kennedy was talking about a profile encouraged.Unknown Speaker 27:03Mr. Scaramucci, I just have a question for you. Look, I get you're an anti Trump Republican. But arguably, he's getting the republican agenda done. He's about to confirm an anti choice, anti immigrant, anti ACA, Supreme Court Justice, the third in his tenure, what happens if he gets reelected? Ultimately, isn't the Lincoln project just kind of down without agenda? They just don't like who the the front man is. But really, if he gets reelected, you guys are probably going to go along with it because you're getting your way anyway. So where's the moral in that, I guess is what I want to do.Unknown Speaker 27:41I I don't see it that way. And I and I know that that's a hardcore liberal. And, you know, forgive me for saying it this way, a little bit of a cynical perspective. I don't see it that way. The the conservative agenda. That's the radical conservative agenda that you just described. That's not my agenda. If you've read stuff that I have written, I worked with the republicans in New York to equalise marriage in the state of New York, and then I work with Rob Reiner, and Chad Gryphon, on the prop eight project to nationalise the marriage equality movement. And so that's a libertarian perspective where somebody that's conservative, and I joke with some of these Danville evangelicals, you guys want a smaller government everywhere, but in my bedroom, you want a larger government in my bedroom. Moreover, the Republican Party under Trump is not classically conservative. It is a socially conservative party, which I disagree with, by the way, because that's anti libertarian ism, is a socially conservative party, but it's a quite fiscally Liberal Party. They want to deficit spend into the stratosphere, and they want to give corporations these gigantic give backs in these gigantic checks. And so for me, that's not classic conservatism. conservatism, for me is to create a platform of equal opportunity for people. I don't believe in socialism, I don't want outcomes capped. But I certainly want people that were born through no fault of their own in inner cities or in poor areas of the country, to have a platform of equal opportunity. So you really study libertarianism and conservatism. There should be a packages of services for people that come from the government, including universal health care, including universal basic income, those things are quite libertarian. If you really understand them, I would encourage you to look at something that Andrew Yang has written about them because, you know, I didn't pick my upbringing. My parents were blue collar, they were on educated, but they hustled and they worked very, very hard to put us in the middle class. And my dad had this aspirational idea about his blue collar life. He thought one of his kids would live the arc of the American dream. If you go back into the area I grew up in. those families have converted from economically aspirational Economically desperation also. So true conservatives would look at that situation and say, Okay, how can we fix that situation? What type of policies, what type of infrastructure, what type of jobs training? Do we need to create a platform of equal opportunity. But once you've got that equal opportunity, then where you go with it is is up to you. It shouldn't be capped on that on the upside. So yes, I hear you. That is a radical view. If the president wins, he will destroy our democracy. And so I don't accept the fact and nor do my friends at the Lincoln project, except the fact that Oh, we're just going to enjoy the fact that he's president and we'd like this Supreme Court that that Supreme Court pick will likely destabilise the social contract that we are in in America right now. And 75% of the people in America do not want Roe v. Wade overturned, they don't want marriage equality overturned. And this is a fringe thing for our society, I think it's very, very dangerous. So I see the republican party as a dinosaur that's about to go extinct. If they reelect President Trump, you will be with an ageing group of people that are buying my pillows and catheters in between foxnews ads, that's what you're going to be left with. I would likeUnknown Speaker 31:17this are good catheters.Unknown Speaker 31:21Next to I left, that the thing you put on your face when you have like sleep apnea, but my point is, I want that party to expand. And I want that party to expand demographically. And I want that party to expand with the beautiful mosaic of colours of the United States. And I want people to think about conservatism differently than the way Trump is describing it. But that is a cynical view of conservatism. And there's a lot of people in that party that hold that view.Dan Ilic 31:45And I reject that view, it'd be really interesting to say how you might support universal health care once Biden wins the election, at least carry it.Unknown Speaker 31:55What do you mean, I will remember that the vice pres is very smart guy. He's calling for the maintenance of private insurance. And he's calling for the expansion of Obamacare. If you remember, I supported Governor Mitt Romney in 2012. And when he was governor of the state of Massachusetts, he developed something that was called romney care, right, which ultimately evolved into Obamacare. Now, we can disagree with elements of Obamacare. But I'll tell you guys something. The medicine in the United States got socialised in 1986, by Ronald Reagan. And how did that happen? He signed an obscure piece of legislation in 1986. That forced every emergency room doctor in every hospital in the country that if you walked in, and you were sick, and you came into the emergency room, they had a moral and legal obligation to take care of you. And so, you know, we we've had it, we've had this medical nationalisation, if you will, we have to come up with a more propitious way to allocate the capital and make it more efficient. But we've got to get down can't be the last nation, Western industrialised nation that doesn't have that health care.Unknown Speaker 33:03So we should I think the answer, if I'm understanding you correctly, is to tax billionaires like 90%, like we did back in the 40s.Unknown Speaker 33:14Well, you gotta be careful, I, again, I have no problem paying taxes. But I think you got you have to be careful because my money is not in a swimming pool in my backyard and hundred dollar bills. My money is spread out into a lots of companies that are creating a lot of jobs. And so what happens is, when you tack somebody at 90%, they start to curb their behaviour. And they start to do things like move their money around to avoid those taxes. And so you want to make sure that you're hitting the intersection of the tax code, where you're incentivizing people to do things that are in the bandwidth of the public good. And you're not causing their mobilisation. Look at what's going on in some of these blue states. People are migrating to the, to the red states that have no income taxUnknown Speaker 33:56on mostly corporations. But yes,Unknown Speaker 33:59listen, you know, my friend, David Tepper, he was 100 and $80 million of the New Jersey tax revenues. One person with his hedge fund. He wanted a tax break from them. They said, No, he moved. And he moved to Miami, he took the hundred and $80 million with the race to the bottom. Yeah, you know, I think I think don't here here's a message I would say to everybody on this podcast, don't get miss a locked into your point of view. Because what ends up happening is when your missile lock, you'll make this very same mistakes that I've made. When you're overly missile locked, you're not seeing it from the other side, you're not seeing the other person's perspective. And that's how we got into the problem that we're in right now. That's why we're so polarised. And that's why we go after each other so far.Unknown Speaker 34:43Well, I mean, another reason we're polarised is because we have been living under Neo liberalism since really hardcore since 1980. And so what that has caused is massive inequality that hasn't existed in a developed nation since the French Revolution, which didn't end Great. So It's actually not my political beliefs as much as me having lived under it for now, you know, going on 40 years as being politically aware, and watching a country dissolve, because all the social safety nets have been removed because people don't want to pay taxes, and it's really simple. Everyone should pay their fair share, and billionaires aren't millionaires overnight, and we see what Trump he gets paid $750 in taxes, and everybody else,Unknown Speaker 35:27we have to pay tonnes of taxes. Why? Because we don't have because I can't buy a golf course.Unknown Speaker 35:33Book. I'm gonna recommend a book on the podcast, if you guys know why it's called American amnesia. And it's a very practical book. It's not necessarily a less base book or right base book. It's not about left or right policy, but it's about right or wrong policy. And it's fairly centrist. And it is making your case by the way, it is making your case that we disavowed the things that got us to where we are, I am the product of a very good public school system. You can't solve the education crisis in the United States without activating public school teachers and working with their unions to enhance the quality of education for these people. You're not going to get there with charter schools, you're not going to get there with conservative jingoism or Betsy DeVos. Okay, but you can get there, we have the right technology, we have the right skill sets, and we have the right capability. And you can convince people that that is actually not necessarily a conservative principle or a liberal principle. But what a great practicality, someone who was a despicable human being Henry Ford, as an example, he was a racist. He was he had a picture of Adolf Hitler on his desk. But he was a pretty magnificent social engineer. He said once and I'll share it with everybody who said, Look, I'm going to pay my workers enough money, so that they can buy the car that they are producing. Moreover, they're going to have a single family house, and they're going to be tied to a very good school system. This way, all these blue collar people will feel aspirational. And they won't come after me in my mansion with tiki torches and pitchforks. And so heUnknown Speaker 37:08also had he also actually hired last actually hired men to beat up union members so that he hired he actually hired men to beat up union members. I mean, his his right hand man was one of the most brutal people in the country at the time, and he was a bigAnthony Scaramucci 37:26I'm giving him credit for an idea. I'm sure that there was mentality in setting up those unions. You know, Roosevelt was against them before he was for them, you will find that everybody has some level of incentives and disincentives, and there is no hero to a man or a woman's valet. You know, if you really study Abraham Lincoln, he was against the abolishment of slavery in the beginning, if you really study him, he wanted to move the African Americans back to Africa. Okay, so he's not a perfect person. Jefferson wasn't Washington obviously wasn't, I certainly am not maybe the four of you are. But here's what I would say to you. Here's what I would say to you. If we go after each other, we go after each other, we're not going to solve the problems. And so there's great ideas on the left. There are some still good ideas on the right, the stuff that princess is suggesting I don't like at all. And so last thing I would say on this topic, Francesca if he wins, he is a threat to the core institutions of our democracy. And so if he wins, you have to look at it from that hierarchy, my patriotism, and my love of country. Is that a way higher order of operation than my partisanship. And so what I find so shocking about this whole thing is as this is unfolded, there are many men and women that have decided that they're clutching a personal power, and they're clutching to the partisanship, nature of this thing is more important than their love of country. So the good news though, is I remain optimistic that there's more people that see it the way we do and want him out than people that see him as somebody that they want to stay with. One last thing before you go, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, his book came out and she said, Wow, wobbu she writes while we're on route to the gemba, a mooch announced I'm proud to report I cross my made a major item off my bucket list today. I assumed he would say something like riding on Air Force One, but instead the mooch said, he just took it taken a huge shift in the White House. Well, I think I remember. I remember using that word, but I think I could have said done. Fred seska. Let me turn it over to you. Do you have any brothers? IUnknown Speaker 39:40Yeah, I do. What am I supposed to be the voice of being couth on this? I know. Women you know women take down that. Oh, yeah, women. Here's the thing about women's bundles. Women's bundles are amazing.Unknown Speaker 39:55Actually, I was very proud ofUnknown Speaker 39:58it. And I'm just saying Is your Italian brothers probably would identify with me and have empathy for my feeling of having that on my bucket list since I was age 14. But anyway, let me just put it this way it was the start of a movement, obviously.Dan Ilic 40:12It was also the end of a movement as well.Unknown Speaker 40:17That experience for me as painful as it was and in oftenUnknown Speaker 40:24it was very enlightening. Not the shit I'm talking about.Unknown Speaker 40:31I mean, if we're going to talk about the shift, the shift was fantastic. Okay, I'm still very proud of it. I own it. And if you have follow up questions, I'm ready to take those as well.Unknown Speaker 40:40I do Did you did you text someone while you were shittingUnknown Speaker 40:44No, no, I don't I definitely don't do that because I'm a little bit of a neat freak that way I don't really use my phone and I'm on the crapper. But God washed my hands and I was heading for the convoy that was heading out to air force one I did text my 28 year old son to let him know of the accomplishment. I think it was very proud of me as his father.Dan Ilic 41:04Well, most thanks so much for joining us on irrational fear. Do you have anything to plug before we go?Unknown Speaker 41:08Well, no, no, listen, guys, guys, I listen to the to the Reverend podcast and I love it. But read that book. Dave Anthony, I think you'll enjoy it American amnesia. It talks about it talks about the need for the reestablishment of that social contract that you're gonnaUnknown Speaker 41:23look at a duck money if you read the book.Unknown Speaker 41:27Well, I I read dark money. Jane Mayer is a brilliant writer. I think that his her Opus her and I are very close friends. I've helped her on a lot of her stories. And dark money, I think is her Opus. I think that's going to be one of the seminal books of that 40 year period that you're discussing 1980 2020 and that and that book speaks to the need for change and real conservatives don't like crony capitalism, and they don't like all that special interest money corrupting the system and real conservatives. And remember the father of progressivism was Teddy Roosevelt who happened to be a Republican. They break up monopolies real conservatives recognise that monopoly power is actually predatory. It stifles innovation, and it keeps people down and it needs to be broken up and revitalised. And real conservatives actually study that stuff. And they don't just take money from special interest and do what they want, under the cover of conservatism.Dan Ilic 42:24Thanks, Mitch, we'll let you go and we'll finish off our show.Unknown Speaker 42:26Well, I mean, we had to leave it on the deuce though, right.Unknown Speaker 42:33I was going in the right direction. Francesca was starting to like me, then you had to bring up the deuce Jesus Christ.Unknown Speaker 42:43Listening to a rational seer was a hot mess inside a dumpster fire inside a train wreck. That was the worst debate I have ever seen. Say it like it isDan Ilic 42:56that was a shit show. Fred and Dave so great to have two big powered brains on with a niche that wasUnknown Speaker 43:05them bringing the meeting we were being super fair. We had some clips but he was like very like see your you hateful lot likeUnknown Speaker 43:16he knows his audience right? He knows this centrist audience really just wants to say that thing where they're like you guys are mean and you guys are mean let's meet in the middle. And it's like No, dude, those days are gone. There's no more meeting in the middle with any of these people like but he knows that's what the centrists want to hear that so he'sUnknown Speaker 43:32getting money for like show me like Lincoln project if you're gonna retake the republican party and actually prove that you aren't pieces of shit show me more than ads like you're talking about the money like do it then do it because I bet you your ass if he if he wins they're gonna go away the Lincoln project will go away they'll just be like well guess what reality is now dupa do like they're gonna fuckingDan Ilic 43:55Lincoln project is not too dissimilar to West Wing where it's like it is a it's almost like this shot in Freud or s liberal fantasy that these people exist and people are buying Yes. And it's not quite it's not quite for conservatives but it is for liberals to to think that these people are conservative and they're buying into the shot and Friday. It's comedy gaslighting.Lewis Hobba 44:14It's the episode of The West Wing that I don't know if you've got to Dave where they get the the eight the like the republican the sorry, the conservative judge in and they all think he's gonna be the devil. And then they're all like, No, he's actually very smart.Unknown Speaker 44:29Yeah. What's yourUnknown Speaker 44:33what's that podcast called Dave? It's called The West Wing thing. Nice. It's so funny cuz me and him started out we like had a long talk and like we can't upset the writers. We just have to play politics with this as far as writing careers are going and we started like being like, Yeah, he's a good writer, blah, blah. And then like six episodes in we're like, this guy's a misogynist piece of shit.Unknown Speaker 44:55turns and we're just like, fuck this guy.Lewis Hobba 44:58He was better when he was on cocaine.Unknown Speaker 45:02The thing about talking about conservatives and like that I've been living under it my whole life it doesn't exist so glad you have your little Fairyland idea what conservative is but it's never been around in my life so let me know when that kicks in with all of your conservative presidents and your conservative senate I don't know when it kicks inUnknown Speaker 45:21idolising Reagan is just like like his entirely you know, we believe in a social safety net like calling black women welfare queens and accusing them of eating steaks every day. Oh yeah, yeah. reaganomics you know.Unknown Speaker 45:35We used to have our press secretary come out and laugh at people dying of AIDS ha ha ha conservatism you know I'm Reagan was a fucking monster Reagan was so exact thing Trump was as a little less crass.Unknown Speaker 45:49That's exactly right.Lewis Hobba 45:51I remember listening to Dave your, your podcasts on Reagan listening to the dollar upon Reagan. And as an Australian, like who don't he's the only real thing of Reagan was like a, you know, comedians doing the imitation or like he used to be an actor or whatever. I was sick. Sick. Yeah, it was the it was nonstop. It was a full like, hour and a half body blow of disgust.Unknown Speaker 46:17Yeah, he's, he's a monster and Trump is 100% his heir apparent. And the real problem that we have is that liberals have no memory and don't know how to hold a grudge.Lewis Hobba 46:31I believe we call it American Asia. Yeah.Unknown Speaker 46:35a grudgeUnknown Speaker 46:36This is what I'm saying that like I was just think about that today. Like the Bush years, eight years, two wars, two plus fours. Like all I we absolutely should have gone after him for war crimes. But like, after eight years of bush after four years of Trump, how much more do you want to think about these people likeDan Ilic 46:57you? And the easiest way to erase that is easiest way to erase that is to paint some terrible paintings and go on and talk about let's forget about the war crimes. You've got pesto.Unknown Speaker 47:11I mean, you really have to you have to prosecute the bankers, you have to prosecute the george bush's of the world, and you have to suffer through that. Because if you don't, well, you get because now there is no rule of law. And when you say Trump is breaking the law, all those people go What about the fucking bankers? You didn't do anything about? What about the war you didn't do anything about? So you know, what's your argument? Where's your moral sort of ground? I'mUnknown Speaker 47:35just saying, I don't want to think about him anymore. But yeah, you're right. You're absolutely right.Dan Ilic 47:40Look on that nut. You know, we did had two other stories to get to, but you know, we're already going over time, so why even bother? That's irrational fear. Big thanks to our fear mongers this week. The mooch Francesca fiorentini, Dave Anthony and Louis haba. Do you guys have anything to plug Francesca?Unknown Speaker 47:57Follow me on Twitter and Instagram at frannie FeO and watch the Situation Room every Sunday night.Dan Ilic 48:03bitchu ation room. It's just like a rational fear. But it's got much better graphics. It's really good. It's excellent. That's that's not hard. And Dave, you want to plug anything,Unknown Speaker 48:14my podcast at all by the second podcast, the West Wing thing which I do with Oscar nominated writer Josh Olson, in which we discuss how the West Wing melted all of these brains of people who are liberals and are now in charge of our country, and they don't know what to do because they think that's how politics works.Dan Ilic 48:36Are you talking about specifically they attack?Unknown Speaker 48:39I would say Pelosi Schumer, I would say Obama's entire ministration was a huge victim of westwing brain. There's a lot that I would say most of the democrats that are in charge,Unknown Speaker 48:50saying the podsafe people just meanUnknown Speaker 48:54absolutely. podsafe guys are some of the worst in their books actually describe how they, you know, would have parties and talk about which one was Toby which moves Josh? Like they're there. They're all playing. They're doing cosplay for West Wing as opposed to actually governing. And they're getting their asses kicked because of it. And we're all suffering because I sawDan Ilic 49:11a great tweet from Australia and notorious Twitter Dan Dolan, who said, Well, at least the crooked media guys gave Biden five stars for this debate.That was very erudite from from Daniel Lewis, you got anything to plug buddy?Lewis Hobba 49:28No, Dan, same old.Dan Ilic 49:30Big thanks to Bertha Foundation, road mics, and our Patreon subscribers and Big thanks to Dave bluestein for writing support on this episode and our producer Jacob brown on the tepanyaki timeline. Until next week, there's always something to be scared of goodbye.Transcribed by https://otter.aiA Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/If you want to support the podcast and take your car carbon neutral, with GoNeutral here: http://bit.ly/GoNeutralInterview: Adam BandtGeraldine QuinnLizzie HooLewis Hobbaand Dan IlicInside the Minister for Emissions Reductions office, everyday is 'opposite day.'As the saying goes:You've got to make emissions, to reduce emissions.You have to do something, by doing nothing.The only way to create emissions free hydrogen is by using greenhouse gas.The only way to encourage renewable energy is to defund renewable energy.We're living in very strange time. The rest of the world is aggressively moving to a carbon free future. China is set to decarbonise their economy by 2060. Next year at COP26 every country will be taking plans to go further, and ratchet up mechanisms for further emissions reductions, because the Paris agreement isn't going to cut it.Net 0 emissions by 2050 is no longer the big ambition, it's the status quo. A few countries will be going in hard to do even more. Leading, in other words.And when the world is doing this, where is that leaving Australia?Australia is the Shore School of the world. Outwardly rich, entitled, antagonistic, and going around spitting on poor people and taking photos of its penis on things to win points with mates, Saudi Arabia, and the USA.Instead of doing the work: transitioning the economy to a carbon free future.We're burning more gas - to lower emissions?Gaslighting figuratively and literally.DanThanks:Big thanks to The Bertha Foundation, our Patreon Supporters and RODE Mics. Jacob Round, Kate Holdsworth, Rupert Degas and David Bloustien.A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/GoNeutralhttp://bit.ly/GoNeutralIf you want to support the podcast and take your car carbon neutral, with here: On the podcast this we speak about Regular Government Gaslighting, and shareholder activism with Brynn O’Brien from the Australasian Centre for Corporate ResponsibilityAlso we have Veronica Milsom, who has a brand new podcast out, Zero Waste Baby. We also have TikTok wunderkind Blake Pavey who is coming for all our jobs — also Lewis Hobba and Dan Ilic.. Thanks:Big thanks to The Bertha Foundation, our Patreon Supporters and RODE Mics. Jacob Round, James Colley and David Bloustien.A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/This is A Rational Fear's new monthly podcast.It’s a long-form conversation with leaders in climate justice from around the world.So… I’m thrilled to give you the first episode of the .Greatest Moral Podcast Of Our GenerationUp first is the bloke who coined the phrase “greatest moral problem of our generation”, Kevin Rudd.We’re a couple of generations of PMs past that speech, and sadly the climate emergency still holds the title.Fellow Bertha Fellow, Linh Do, and I do a wrap of the month’s climate news, then we get to the interview.Kevin and I speak about climate change policy, good, bad, future, past and present. We also go deep on Rupert Murdoch, NBN, and media regulation. Kevin also has some great advice for leaders who want to work in the climate space.The Patreon version of this episode also has a conversation about off-shore detention and Kevin’s Manus Island solution.If you’re a follower of #Auspol or just want to understand where we’re at with climate policy in Australia, this is a super interesting interview.Cheers,Dan IlicCredits:Host: Dan IlicCo-host: Linh DoPost production: Jacob RoundResearch: Kara SchleglVoice Over: Robbie McGregorArtwork: Lauren GeaneyPatreon:⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬜⬜⬜⬜ 65.2%If you enjoy the podcast, chip in with Patreon. We’re at about 65.2% of covering the costs of making the show each week. Every little bit helps. You get to watch the live recording of the show on Thursday nights at 8pm, and access our Discord community – it’s kind of like a chat room where we bounce ideas around for the writing of the show throughout the week.Thanks:Big thanks to The Bertha Foundation, our Patreon Supporters and RODE Mics.TRANSCRIPT FROM OTTER.AIKevin Rudd 0:00I'm getting a Remington manual typewriter and cigars and load Jamaica rum. I'm taking lessons a TAFE course in bullfighting despite global warming, a rational fear is adding a little more hot air with long form discussions with climate leaders. Good.This is called Don't be fried the heat waves and drought greatest mass extinction Morrow we're facing a manmade disaster podcast, climate criminalsshiana rationUnknown Speaker 0:38all of this with global warming and a lot of it's a hoax book right, a small podcast about generation.Unknown Speaker 0:46For short,Dan Ilic 0:47yes, welcome to the first gumpert brought to you by irrational fear. I'm Daniel H and co hosting up the top is Linda Gatlin.Linh Do 0:55JOHN, how are youDan Ilic 0:56now? Good dad. You're the first person to hear the new intro. What do you think? Have aLinh Do 1:00no pressure right greatest more podcast of our time none whatsoever. I'm ready to rock and roll.Dan Ilic 1:06I actually it's actually greatest moral podcast of our generation. I myself have been calling of our time for so long. But I have went back to check the original source text and it was generation.Linh Do 1:19Well as a millennial, my generation i thought was the only one that mattered. So time generation say same for me, it doesn't matter.Dan Ilic 1:27So the second Monday of each month, we'll be bringing you long form conversations with climate leaders from all around Australia and the world. Do you want us to talk to Lynn? I mean,Linh Do 1:35it feels like such an obvious pick to say Greta tune Berg, but I'm also super keen to hear about those people that have made the decision to say leave their jobs in the oil and gas industry. Like I think that is a real sort of moral and ethical dilemma.Dan Ilic 1:49Yeah, I can imagine if I was earning six figures in the oil and gas industry, I don't think I'd have to take a second before leaving those. Now Lynne and I are going to be talking about three stories. about climate change that piqued your interest this month. Let's start off with yulian what some what's kind of caught your eye this month?Linh Do 2:06Well, one of the things that's definitely caught my eyes, it's just all the temperature sort of record setting scenarios that are happening. I got to go to Antarctica last year and remember it being over 10 degrees when I was there, we just just felt like wild for the icy wild west did this last month we've seen la record its hottest day ever. clocking in at close to 49 degrees Celsius, which, for me feels like Mad Max has returned.Dan Ilic 2:33Well, it's funny to say Mad Max at a place called stunt ranch in the Santa Monica Mountains. It got up to 50 degrees Celsius 122 degrees Fahrenheit, which is crazy. I mean, it I mean, you wouldn't even have to pretend it was hot there like it was there. I think the problem with them those kinds of temperatures in LA there are so many celebrities who can't go outside in case their faces melt away. I think that's probably the biggest problem for those people. There.Linh Do 3:00makeup and hot weather just like things that are growing together.Dan Ilic 3:04One other interesting one I saw this week that I thought was really fascinating was to do with wind farms. Now, Lynn, what are some of the most common reasons why people fight against wind turbines in their neighborhood?Unknown Speaker 3:18Ah,Linh Do 3:19because it's ugly. It's either that they're super ugly or it's from an original twitcher. That is to say a bird watcher because they're killing all the birds. Yeah,Dan Ilic 3:27that's right. That's right bird strikes is a big deal with with wind farms. Donald Trump was right on wind farms when it comes to bird strikes. Birds get whacked pretty fast. The blades go past at about 240 kilometers an hour but some very clever Norwegian scientists have worked out that by painting just one of the blades black on a wind turbine they can cut bird strikes down by 70% 70%.Linh Do 3:54so impressive and so cool that the other two turbines are still why because you know that helps reflect the heat and absorption. Okay.Dan Ilic 4:02Yes, that's right. Well, what turbine lives matter? Is that something that's probably not saying don't worry about thoughLinh Do 4:08I think it's all turbines matter, otter matter, because renewable energy is the futureDan Ilic 4:13or turbines better. That's correct. And Lynn, The Kids Are All Right.Linh Do 4:18Well, I feel like they're doing a bit better than my millennial generation that I just talked about before. We also saw this last month a really cool sort of instance of first ever in Australia where a class action has been filed by some teenagers against the Australian Government hoping to put an injunction into an extension toDan Ilic 4:37coal mine. That's incredible. What is the chance that they can prevent this coal mine which I think they're talking about the Whitehaven coal mine in Canada, trying to get it off the minister's desk what's the chance I can get that injunction going?Linh Do 4:50I mean, it feels like an impossible and audacious task but we've seen really cool examples in the US and in like the Netherlands where young people, older people have been able to governments to court over climate change and have actually prevented coal mines from openingKevin Rudd 5:05to listening to the greatest moral podcast about generation.Dan Ilic 5:12Now to the interview, the first guest on the greatest moral podcast of our generation is former prime minister Kevin Rudd, who wants cold climate change, the greatest moral problem of our generation. It was a pretty interesting conversation about where we are and where we should be going in terms of climate change, and how we got here, and how hard it is to make big things happen in Parliament. There's also quite a bit of Murdoch bashing In this episode, I think he compares, meaning rupert murdoch to Gollum, so definitely worth listening out for. For me as a young person interested in politics, the Kevin oh seven election was remarkable, as it offered quite a stark contrast to john Howard. And he was kind of Kevin Rudd was kind of the first leader of a party to have a really aggressive approach to climate action. And I don't think anyone has dead sinceLinh Do 6:00I mean, I feel people have did and then ever has happened and people have again become really terrified of this irrational, slash, sometimes rational fear. And Kay Rob was actually one of the first politicians that I ever got to vote, not obviously directly for their parliamentary system. But when I came of age and got to, like go to the ballot for the first time, so it was exciting to actually have someone talk about climate change. And then, well, you know, history happened.Dan Ilic 6:26And now there are people coming up who are doing class actions who've never even heard of Kevin Rudd.Linh Do 6:31Yep. And they get to probably two election cycles.Dan Ilic 6:34Well, you know, something here is Kevin Rudd. God is itKevin Rudd 6:39today, good to be with you, Kevin. Oh, seven. I'm gearing up for Kevin 27.Dan Ilic 6:44The return the return,Kevin Rudd 6:47finally met Kevin 37. So by which stage I would only be at I thinkDan Ilic 6:52I look if it's Joe Biden, it's good enough for you?Kevin Rudd 6:54Well, I'm about to say I mean, I've just been my prime by then.Dan Ilic 6:58Now, Kevin to the verify your identity because it's 2020. And technology is so good these days and people listening to the podcast could think, you know, actually talking to a bot from Russia here. I've got 11 questions, just to verify your identity. And if you get eight of them correct, we can continue on with the interview. Not the problem. Great. Here we go. First question. True or false. Kevin Rudd once worked as a house cleaner for Laurie Oakes?Kevin Rudd 7:25Absolutely throughDan Ilic 7:27Congress, which coalition minister did Kevin Rudd once compared to being caught between a hound and a hydrant on greenhouse gas?Kevin Rudd 7:36That would have beenUnknown Speaker 7:40sort of Howard or AbbottDan Ilic 7:43Do you need a clue as to clue you were you were his counterpart when you Shadow Minister for Foreign Oh,Kevin Rudd 7:52okay. So it would have been doubling down on Kevin rods favorite swear words Ah, IfDan Ilic 8:05true or false fair shake of the source bottle was made up by Kevin Rudd.Kevin Rudd 8:10False who was a preexisting Queensland expression which I simply adapted for national political purposes.Dan Ilic 8:18According to AV essays Australia talks program, what percentage of Australians think that climate change is real and what real actionKevin Rudd 8:2784%Dan Ilic 8:28Oh, and what percentage of Australians think that politicians are out of touch with real Australians on climate change?Kevin Rudd 8:358.4%Dan Ilic 8:37actually, it's 84% the same amount. Now Kevin on a scale of one to 10 how responsible is Kevin rod for that 84%Kevin Rudd 8:51if one is on not responsible for anything, and 10 is on totally responsible for Everything I'd give myself of probably about a threeDan Ilic 9:06I actually actually have written here I would have accepted three to six so you're on the lower end of the scale well then you got that correct. Finished.Kevin Rudd 9:13Do I do the mandatory renewable energy target I did try twice to legislate the carbon price will give me in houses with solar panels.Dan Ilic 9:23What else am I supposed to do in three years guys? Finish this sentence Kevin Rudd once supported clean coal but now thinks there is a problem it's called finish this sentence Kevin Rudd once back carbon capture and storage that now thinksKevin Rudd 9:40carbon capture and storage the four associated technologies have lived yet to be fully proven.Dan Ilic 9:48If Kevin Rudd could have his time again he would rename the resource super profits tax whatKevin Rudd 9:54the screw you Rio Tex.Dan Ilic 9:57I also would have accepted the Aussie dividend The HSV grant and the birthright money pitKevin Rudd 10:03would have accepted the screw urea effects. But it's a blast indigenous cave sides that RioDan Ilic 10:09that Rio, Rio Tinto, of course. Now final question to verify your identity Kevin Rudd without using the word brown or green, Australia has lost a decade of climate action becauseUnknown Speaker 10:23becauseKevin Rudd 10:29Abba always put politics above policy and found some willing accomplices on the way through. Now, they just do have different coloration.Dan Ilic 10:45The maps here, yes, I can verify that we are indeed talking with Prime Minister Kevin Rudd. Thank you, Kevin. That was very nice of you.Kevin Rudd 10:55I am not a bot.Dan Ilic 10:57Not about not about you have a very better world. accent the first kind of way to kick off this This podcast is all about people who have been at the front of climate action and trying to implement climate action. I kinda want to take you back to the first day of the launch. Jessica Ross tweeted this on New Year's Eve 2019 2020 earlier this year, all of Australia was pretty much on fire and she tweeted is now the right time to share that when we moved into the lodge in 2007. The sole remaining disk in the DVD player was the great global warming swindle. Happy New Year. Do you remember that memory Did you watch it as a family?Kevin Rudd 11:38Though we just sort of had a jaw dropping moment as we discovered this thing. Whether that was the last thing that the the seal regime played or whether it was just a sticker brought up your nose? I'm not quite sure. Can you think it was telling the truth?Dan Ilic 11:54Can you remember saying it and what we think what did you think first thing when you when you saw that? disk in the display.Kevin Rudd 12:03Well, I think I thought about john Winston, you know what a waste is a guy who was in office for 12 years and purely within a conservative political paradigm. He couldn't should have seen it in his own political self interest to reach over and to take this ground from us. But he couldn't sum it up. Of course, at the last minute, you know, that PDF shergold then hit a prime minister's department convinced him to go to the oh seven election with an emissions trading scheme policy. But he taught wasn't in NAB. It certainly wasn't in it even though avid back to down at the time, but I think it is fairly to grasp its its capacity to sustain his own Prime Ministership. Instead, I was puzzled about your file against a man for who he is, and he Dig conservative belief structure, but I'm trying to operate within the grain of his own political survival sort of strategy, which is to say, Hmm, if I could do that I would broaden my tent and hold on for longer and keep bloody Castello away for another 46 years.Dan Ilic 13:17Do you ever, ever thinks how things might have played out differently had Castello rolled? power to that point?Kevin Rudd 13:26I've never been an alternative history guy, which is what if, what if, what if, what if life is complicated enough when you just do do do rather than have a whole bunch of you know, post facto reflections on what could have been? So you, you dealt the cards, you play with the cards that you dealt with, you make the best decisions possible and you played as hard as you can to get the results that you need. Sometimes it works, and sometimes you fall screaming under your face.Dan Ilic 13:58I'm gonna take you back to Your maiden speech in dynamite is a great line in there that I want to share to the audience. It says, I also believe the government should not turn in on themselves, but instead have a fundamental responsibility to pursue the public code internationally in the promotion of regional and global security, democracy and economic development and the protection of the planet. How do you feel about that statement now? And was it hard to live up to those ideals in your time in office?Kevin Rudd 14:28I've always had a view that, you know, politics has got to be about vision. And unless you are painting the vision, which that statement does, and you just parodied in my earlier remarks, that climate change the greatest moral challenge of our generation, unless you're actually putting that up there as the goalpost, you're never going to get there. Seriously. So if it's all about one little bit of incremental change after another, and everyone uncertain about what the end point is, well, guess what? Progress is going to be pretty marginal. So I have no problems with that the alternative is the nation has no vision it has no mission statement as a result, we just drift on an all the lead drift into oblivion include, including on climate,Dan Ilic 15:15what is the future of climate action for Australia?Unknown Speaker 15:19I thinkKevin Rudd 15:22number one is to deliver real political change to make it happen. And I hate to say this, but the current mob don't have it within their DNA to do it. And it's just the truth. If I thought that they could have done this Damascus road on this stuff, I wouldn't hold this view. So this mob have to have a wooden stake, whacked through their heart in terms of what is then done by way of substantive action My view for what it's worth is a, we need to move north further with the mandatory renewable energy target beyond 20. When I brought that in, they thought it was impossible, because then renewables contribution to total electricity supply was 4%. And it's now 20%. Legislation matters. So go north of that. Secondly, on the carbon price, I've always supported a floating carbon price to bring disciplines into the show. Thirdly, we'll be on the receiving end and we should also be on the exporting end of carbon tariffs. That is if there are freeloaders in the system internationally, and something the Morison government haven't worked out. Is there going to have carbon tariffs put on us by the Europeans? I think definitely And under Biden administration, probably possibly the Americans. And so that should be a third part of the the armory. And the fourth, of course, is to have genuinely ambitious set of national targets for us within the framework of the Paris treaty, Paris Agreement.Dan Ilic 17:18The era T is a bit of legislation that you help foster through. And it's one of the remaining bits of climate legislation that is quite effective. How was that ever at risk of disappearing? You know, when? In your time Did you ever see it as a vulnerable mechanism?Kevin Rudd 17:40Yeah, I mean, the organized lobby against us when we brought in the emrich was huge. You may recall the Senate vote was actually pretty tight. When you say we facilitated through or fostered it through that meant getting the numbers and it was hard. It was tough. Politics is a rough whole business for me and trying to do the right thing. And then the Tories on many occasions substance that tried to get it, tried to reduce it, tried to emasculate it and so it's always been under attack from various parts of the of the fossil fuel lobby in this country. So I think it's it's great as mortal danger was firstly, getting the numbers to get through because it was a parallel debate to the cprs. And the numbers would tight in both cases. And secondly, it came under again its second greatest threat in 20 1314 when Conan the Barbarian took over, aka Tony Abbott and and wanted to kill it. But again, he couldn't Marshal the numbers in the Senate. By the way, it's the only workhorse on climate change in this country. Everything else is sort of stuff and nonsense. But the real thing that's worked, I don't know directDan Ilic 18:54action in the green army. That's pretty fantastic. He exhaustsKevin Rudd 18:57the The The truth is, here we are in 2021 is working the mandatory renewable energy target. Plus if you like, you know, 20% of the housing stock getting subsidized solar panels, our work on on the installation of homes, frankly, despite the difficulties with that program, reduced energy demand, so demand side management solar panels in terms of the subsidies we put in there, but most critically, the driving factor was was the medic renewable energy target.Dan Ilic 19:37We kind of hear hear about the fossil fuel lobbyists and the lobbying that goes on in Parliament for you. How did that manifest on a daily basis? What does it actually look like when we hear you know, the fossil fuel lobby is is in force andKevin Rudd 19:51what it looks like is for example, when I was in Copenhagen, and and hadn't been to bed for two or three days and again, Heading the Copenhagen Accord, which, frankly, was the draft of what became the Paris Agreement, the Copenhagen Accord of 2009 became the Paris agreement of 2015. That's the reality because that's when we crossed the two degrees centigrade threshold through sheer you know, negotiating effort. So what does the carbon lobby look like? The carbon lobby looks like them being on the phone, to the likes of the Baba boys in the Labour Party, some of the factional chieftains from the right, who then get on the phone to the prime minister and say, mate, this is a disaster mate, you got to kill this maid you got to kill carbon pricing altogether, because Abbott's on the march and the industry is going nuts. That's otherwise called Mark arbib. And that's certainly the position I picked up from. Let's call it the the fringe dwellers of the Labour Party in the labor movement, who've always been pretty solid To the political and lobbying pressure of the carbon lobbyDan Ilic 21:04for you to push back on those folks, what does that look like from your perspective? Like how do you put your foot on the ground and push back upon those in your party who want to want to tear down what is really important, groundbreakingKevin Rudd 21:20legislation, my first response to our bid, which is probably why I lost him in terms of the future, the parliamentary leadership of the Labour Party, and therefore the Prime Ministership was when I just told him to bugger off. I remember this conversation very clearly just told him to get lost. Could you useDan Ilic 21:35the exact language?Kevin Rudd 21:37It started not with B. But I think it started with a letter several along in the alphabet from the four extra letters. And and I said, this is what we're committed to doing. We're going to do it. And then the range of political arguments so they throw against just why you can't do it. And then the second one, which was much harder was when Julia Gillard came in the office into sorry, Swami kirribilli in January and said, there's no way that I can support a double the solution based on the carbon pollution reduction scheme, the cprs, having by that stage been rejected by the Senate twice. And so I thought, well, that's interesting. And then third wave was when she and Wayne Swan teamed up to say that we had to, they wanted to abolish the cprs altogether. And I said no, because we can't get through the Senate. We'll defer it for two years. That was a decision that have been subsequently was leaked against me.Dan Ilic 22:45It's been said that that has been that decision was that you kicked it down the line and you know, really kicked into the grass as a low priority.Kevin Rudd 22:53Here is the reality is we couldn't get it through the Senate. So I deferred it two years from 2010 to 20 1213 from memory There was a reason because it was going to enter into the new Kyoto commitment period. So that's why we I did that. But that was my compromise position against the internal effectiveness of the carbon lobby, working on the likes of Gilad and Swan and RB have been the bubble boys who ultimately engineered the coup who wanted to kill it all together. And I remember those conversations very clearly.Dan Ilic 23:22It feels like probably the last 30 years that every leadership decision has almost been at the wheel of the fossil fuel industry. Is that an unfair statement to kind of make?Kevin Rudd 23:38Not really, I mean, I actually took them on on two fronts. One was the carbon price where I was defeated. And I took them on again on the results super profits tax, Emma's again defeated so the On both those scores, yes, they had the final cyber, they had a huge fight on the way through.Dan Ilic 24:05But do you think do you do you think that they are ultimately responsible for you being pulled out of office in the first place?Kevin Rudd 24:13I think they're one of the contributing lobbies. I mean, these things are never neat. You got a cocktail of Shakespearean political ambition, people who just want to get promoted, become Prime Minister and get a bigger ministerial job and a bigger kind of bigger briefcase, you get a gigantic briefcase when you become Prime Minister.Dan Ilic 24:29And now you don't actually use the ministers man is the prime minister. That's right. It's got super 10 topKevin Rudd 24:37jumbo size briefcase on the side has very important person. Yeah, right. So anyway, as you know, political ambition is writ large. So that's there. Everyone's ambitious in politics. Me too, can say that. You know, I'm sort of spring burden on these questions. But in case of knocking off the first time Prime Minister has he got individual political ambition, Gilad wanted to be in charge was prepared to throw anything and everything at it. Secondly, you've then got the Murdoch media who wanted to kill us by this stage, because we departed from what they would describe as an acceptable Blairite script. We're rolling out the National Broadband Network, we were determined to act on climate change. And the link between the carbon lobby in the big results companies in the Murdoch media is acute. Then thirdly, underpinning that you've got them the the big fossil fuel companies themselves.Dan Ilic 25:33At the time, I remember the cocktail hours in New York in 2010. And I was glued to my browser. at one o'clock in the morning reading what was happening and just completely shocked as to what was going on at the time. I seem to remember that the argument from those in labor that wanted to get rid of you was that you were impossible to work with where you impossible to work with.Kevin Rudd 26:00That's just a bullshit argument was a post facto construction. I mean, real it's really interesting is that there was an academic of the dime. And his name was Patrick Whelan, who was compiling a book on the operating style of the Rudd government. So we'd gone round and interviewed all these guys and girls, all anonymously, by the way, and they all gave copious accounts of how well the cabinet process was working, what a good Chair of cabinet was, etc. So they contemporaneous accounts actually don't lend themselves to that view. And you can understand that when people have executed a bloody first term political coup against the democratically elected Prime Minister, that they're going to search around for some sort of other excuse. Look, it was ambition, political ambition, they wanted my job. And the case of the factions they want me out of the road because I couldn't abide the factions of the Labour Party because they kept trying to stand over people on various policy questions and personal appointments so therefore you can you embed a narrative in if I was so bad to work for then when I came back as prime minister Why did practically all the staff I had working for me first time around, come back and work from the second time round? I mean, if it was all that bad I don't quite understand that.Dan Ilic 27:25You must have good snacks. You must have good snacks.Kevin Rudd 27:29But even even detractors like Simon crane would say that it was very good cheer of cabinet everyone gonna say we did things methodically, etc. So look, just understand that in politics, people are always going to invent their alibi after the event, and this was one of the alibis invented and you'll notice it's kind of drifted away, they don't talk about it. Any anymore. And if you go to if you're really interested in this subject, and your listeners are the autobiography I wrote called the pm years, it actually kind of deconstructs all of this in some considerable detail 1400 footnotes for you and your nerdy listeners.Dan Ilic 28:11very thorough. Kevin, very far have you? Do you think when you were talking about a plan for 20, keeping the air at having a price on carbon? Do you think it'll ever be possible to get price and emissions ever again in Australia?Kevin Rudd 28:29I hope so. That's certainly what I work towards, because it's part of the armory is the total armory, but it's part of the armory. You see, can what's the end point here and the end point is to bring down greenhouse gas emissions to the extent necessary that we don't have global temperature increases beyond 1.5. We're not on track for that, you know, the mathematics if we did, everything we agreed to in Paris would get one third of that distance, not, not the and that's absent the next commitment period under Paris, let alone People actually doing that which they commit to. So to get to that end point, what can you do a on the energy supply side, you transfer out of fossil fuels into renewables. B, you can do that by legislation as we did through the mandatory nubile energy target. You can also do it by making carbon that much more expensive to use. And there's a third way you can do it, which is where Obama got to the end, which is that you bring in a bunch of regulatory measures to screw down on the industry itself, other than through a carbon price. So I would strongly say to the the carbon lobby, be careful what you do, if you don't want to carbon price, and you can be regulated out of existence. Be very careful.Dan Ilic 29:50It's pretty interesting to kind of say machinations right now. A lot of people are talking about this election in the US as probably If Trump gets back in will be the death knell for any kind of global negotiation on climate. Do you think if Trump does get in that, that climate action, meaningful climate action is over on a global scale?Kevin Rudd 30:16No, because, I mean, on climate, Trump, you know, like Abbott is kind of the Antichrist. That's just the truth of it. But guess what, enough major corporations in the world have now become the object of shareholder action or action on the part of their finances. And so if you're out there with a pension fund at the moment, and courtesy of previous labour, governments national superannuation policy, you all are, look at where they're investing and apply pressure. It's having an effect. It's having an effect through the annual general meeting. shareholder lobbies, etc. So, therefore, we should not despair. If Conan the Barbarian cousin gets reelected in the United States, it will be retro again, but action by state governments, municipal governments, but frankly primarily shareholder action through not financing these projects for the futureDan Ilic 31:26is critical. You talk about other governments and in Australia in particular, why is this such a gap between what's happening on a federal level with climate action and the states the states kind of seem to be on the front foot with climate action and really taking it seriously. All the states are dedicated to net zero by 2050. What is that? What is that chasm? And, and why does it exist?Kevin Rudd 31:56I think it's because of the power of the car. lobby federally, and it's just been more deeply entrenched. They concentrate their resources. Remember, just on a related matter when we brought in the results of super profits tax, the amount of money which Rio and bhp threw at that one, as a campaign, we're looking at a worchester, around about a 90 or 100 million dollars, that buys a truckload of advertising. And I'm talking about a decade ago. So, therefore, you put them together plus then their national mouthpiece, the Murdoch media. You got paid advertising from the carbon lobby, directly or indirectly. And then you've got the Murdoch media who have always been their mouthpiece and certainly the greatest opponent of systematic action on climate change in this country, put them together apply to the federal government, in federal politics. It's very hard to I just that's a really kind of circumvented that, and really looked at the science and really tried to appear to be doing meaningful things. As the fossil fuel lobby dropped the ball when it comes to interacting the states or,Dan Ilic 33:12or I just can't i can't reconcile of how the federal government can't acknowledge where the states are at and meet the states where they are, and just do the right thing.Kevin Rudd 33:23I think it's because theDan Ilic 33:26I'm talking I'm also sorry, I'm sorry, Kevin. I'm also talking about both parties here. I feel like liberal and labor.Kevin Rudd 33:31Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've been talking about my home. I'm not, you know, I mean, I've, I've explained some of the failings on our side. I mean, the bottom line is, for God's sake, you know, the Green Party, joined with liberals to defeat the carbon price. Back in 2009. The Labour Party did what it did in terms of the coup in 2010, for the reasons that we outlined. And then Abbott Upon his election repealed the the carbon price, which then then existed. So there's some responsibility to share with a lap around. Let's be, let's be blunt about this. The liberal National Party have been ideologically committed to destroying the carbon price for a very long time. And had they had a reverse view, we would be 10 years down the track,Dan Ilic 34:26but it but it feels like you're talking to two different countries. When you're talking about the state's position and the in the federal position like now, it's 2020. Surely the federal government can just flick a switch and jump on board because what they're doing is moot because the states are putting in so much pressure and putting in so many mechanisms to meet those targets.Kevin Rudd 34:48That's true. So to answer your question, as a matter of analysis, I assume that the carbon lobby spend list time, less effort and less money on stake counterparts they do federally point 1.2. I just notice and note that Murdoch does not run a campaign against state political parties and state governments on carbon. The only exception I would say would be, you know, they're in and out of the Adani debate in the, in the case of Queensland politics in the last federal election. And they may be back on that next time around as well. So I just think it's differential treatment. And ultimately, they know that the taxation powers here are a federal power. So that's where the why they put all their their bucks into that particular basket, I think,Dan Ilic 35:38yes, my best. There makes sense. Now I've got some questions from my Patreon supporters. Kevin, I hope you for them. Simon, who is Simon Holmes, a court asks you what if you work collaboratively with the libs in 2008 to push through the cprs rather than roasting Turnbull slowly, all the way up to late 2009. Do you think you might have gotten over the line rather than giving an opening for the rise of Tony AbbottKevin Rudd 36:01Well, thank you Mr. Han's, do your homework and get your facts straight, and have a long chat to Penny Wong, who was my Minister for climate change. And he did all the negotiations with with Turnbull, and with MacFarlane, her brief for me, he was to get a deal. And if you look at our original draft, the cprs. And what we ended up with line after line after line, we compromised in order to make it possible for Turnbull to deliver this to his party room. And in the end, what Turnbull took to his party room was what they signed up to, and believe they could prevail on remember Turnbull at the end of the day, lost by one vote. So it's pretty easy for Mr. Holmes a court to say, oh, in advance you should have known precisely, Kevin how much further you should have compromised on your on your carbon price, your carbon pollution reduction scheme. At the time in order to give not turnable a one seat loss for the leaders or one vote loss for the leadership but a five vote majority. I think it's a little a little defying of the logic to to suggest that anyone could have that level of as it were. For side anyway ask Penny she had a complete negotiating brief to do itDan Ilic 37:21on on that. Do you regret not building a bridge with the greens at that point? folks in the green said that they never had a phone call with anyone from from your side.Kevin Rudd 37:32That's just a complete lie, lie, lie. It's not an untruth. It is actually a deliberate lie. And the reason is, Penny Wong was dealing with the greens all the way through. Why was she doing it because all the greens are in the Senate. They're not announcer representatives and that's where the numbers were. So day in day out she'd been negotiating with the greens day in day out should be negotiating with Turnbull, and with MacFarlane. And when she came in and said, we've got a deal, you know, I was delighted. So this whole idea of having some perverse interest in roasting Turnbull slowly. It's just a nonsense. It's again, it's a post facto narrative on the part of the Green Party. And they sought to exonerate themselves for just absolute bloody mindedness, by the way you want. The final proof of that is the cprs regime, the carbon pollution reduction scheme is a more rigorous regime in terms of its coverage of the economy than the subsequent carbon tax that they agreed with with Gilad after the 2010 election, the one that was then ultimately repealed by by by Abbott. So the Green Party just have no credit on this.Dan Ilic 38:49And even though that was repealed, did you end that was not your particular policy at that point in time. When it was repealed. Were you How did you feel about that, that repealing was it Personal was he we joyful that it got repaired because it wasn't yours or where you're upset that,Kevin Rudd 39:04you know sick in the stomach. And you may remember that in the 2013 election in order to seek to preserve it, remember the politics of it was this Gilad political failure was this a, she used opposition to the carbon price and the carbon pollution reduction scheme as part of her push against me for the leadership? that's proven, let's just establish That's a fact. Secondly, she then has a near death experience in the 2010 election, scrambled time with the minority government, the Green Party then walk in and say, we're only going to support you if you put a price on carbon. And so suddenly, it's a carbon tax and not a floating price. And the problem is Gilad has promised in the previous election campaign that they will not That there will never be a carbon tax under a government will try and leave. At that point she killed the political credibility of her government at that point, and everything was downhill from then. So when I came back What did I do to get around that? I said, the first thing that we'll be doing is to legislate to turn the fixed price into a floating price to Megan do emissions trading scheme, thereby removing the political bugbear. This was a complete election breach by gilla.Dan Ilic 40:29I've got another question from one of our Patreon supporters. Claire Jenkins writes about this point in time right now we're in with with COVID and the economics of that we're living through. She asked if he was in power, what policies or industries would he prop up to help push Australia out of its current economic mess?Kevin Rudd 40:47What I do is complete the bloody National Broadband Network in the manner in which it was originally conceived as fiber optic to the pregnancy. Yes, and because Can you Imagine where we'd be right now, if there was no NBN at all. So we launched this thing, but back then 2008 was to be fiber optic to the premises. The other mob got elected in 2013 killed it by making it fiber optic to the node in order to look after Murdoch and his mates because they didn't want Netflix to be able to go straight through to people's homes. As a result, we have a much weaker broadband, as you know. But unless we launched the National Broadband Network when we did, there would be no national broadband at present, you'd have bits and pieces in various cities, large cities, but that's about it. So what would I do, given that where COVID-19 has taken us, which is the digital economy is the future unless this country has a fully functioning digital network with fiber optic to everyone else, everyone, small business, etc. We ain't gonna be competing. So I put the cache finish the job that we should have completed, had not the other mob taken Rupert's interest into account and killed it.Dan Ilic 42:10A lot of a lot has been written about that and when you hear it clear cut out of your mouth. Do you? Is it weird to kind of say How is it? I guess what I'm asking for Do you have a certain sense of shot in Florida with the way Fox tells subscribe is being dropped off?Kevin Rudd 42:29Well, I think Fox Fox hills ship program programming anyway, but look, Murdock knew back then and one of the reasons he turns out viciously against us is because of fiber optic to the premises. He just didn't want Netflix competition at that point. He wanted to be able to as it were evolved foxtel into a different business over time, because of you know, the residual investments in cable which he laid out a long time before that. So I basically marched in, and unbeknownst to myself, because I was just advancing a National Broadband Network for the good of the economy and for people working from home, etc for the future. I torpedoed his commercial strategy over bloody foxtel which was his only remaining cash cow in the country. So am I happy that fox Hill is going through the floor? Nah, I don't. I don't enjoy other people's pain. But God, you could see this coming.Dan Ilic 43:28It's so strange. Like if the NBN had been built to its fruition to its original design, Fox will probably be in a better bad, better position, they probably had to build a robust streaming business off the back of high capacity streaming.Kevin Rudd 43:43If I had any imagination, that's exactly what they would have done. But they had nothing they wanted to protect. What was then a billion dollars a year cash cow, because everyone in those days was watching for till there was nothing else and it costs subsidized. Murdoch's real power, which is his national print monopoly, all of which will last making the most of which will last me.Dan Ilic 44:01Let's talk about that going to say rupert murdoch, I seem to remember you going to say riverbed rocks before you ran? What was that conversation? Like in the room? And how do you? How do you have that conversation? And what do you talk about when you when you tell rupert murdoch, you're running for Prime Minister?Kevin Rudd 44:20Well, before anyone accuses me of being hypocrite, I've been doing that.Dan Ilic 44:24No, no, no, no, no one's accusing you of being hypocrite. I just want to know, what is it like? You know, what is this?Kevin Rudd 44:30What is it like for your listeners to understand why someone like me would do that? If the guy has 70% of the print media, and that he is definitionally hostile to labor, then isn't it better that I can as it were get to a stage where maybe in the 2007 election, we get 5050 coverage rather than 99 one which is the norm against labor, so that's why I did it. Really reduceDan Ilic 44:57we all know why you do it. You know, when I every He does it. Every single buddy does it Kevin, what I want to know is what is it? Like? What's the feeling like of waiting in the lobby to say rip up?Kevin Rudd 45:10And what is it like waiting to shake? It's like waiting to shake hands with Gollum, you know? And then there's this thing that sits in the room opposite view saying, oh, precious, my precious, my precious. You have to be able to kind of understand the analogy there. I hope your listeners do. I thinkDan Ilic 45:29Gollum is widely publicized throughout popular culture to get back.Kevin Rudd 45:32I don't know, you know, I'm just, I'm just 200 from the Queensland country. I'm not sure but so you're dealing with Gollum. And you got to understand that Gollum has got precious in his hands. And that's his share price. And he is a deeply far right conservative individual. So you just working with what you got the only thing that I could find that his interests in mind overlapped He believes in something called Small Business formation. And so, and because, you know, Trey's, my wife set up her own small business, which became a big business over time, we can talk about that. But beyond that, you're kind of dealing with a guy whose worldview is out there to the point where, you know, Attila the Hun would stop and blush at a particular point in that conversation.Dan Ilic 46:27And what were you feeling that what was your What was your gut feeling during that meeting? How are you handling that?Kevin Rudd 46:34Okay, well, you're in a negotiation, you know, and he's been around longer than me. He's dealt with political leaders, a lot of them before me. And so am I, of course anxious thing to get a better outcome for the Labour Party would otherwise be the case because I am. And she knows something. It's impoossible Tto warm to this guy there is there's nothing personal, personally redeeming about him. It's just, you know, and I've had many interactions with him. It's just nothing to talk about the values that I can identify of any redeeming quality, it's transactional. It's about the share price, and it's about power. That's his worldview.Dan Ilic 47:27For me. It's quite strange to reconcile that, the Australian who has had more effect on the world than anyone is Rupert Murdoch, it's in some respects, he is Australia's greatest Australian. But he's also Rupert Murdoch.Kevin Rudd 47:43He's our worst, He's our worst export.You know, in the United States where I spend most of my time Yeah, like since I came second in the 2013 election.Dan Ilic 47:55Do they give you a certificate or a ribbon for coming second?Kevin Rudd 48:00You get a runner up prize, you know, you get red for coming second rat, you had blue coming first and you're green for coming third. Anyway, so some of the United States I've been running an American think tank for the last five years, I get asked every day by Americans, how we ended up producing this phenomenon, which is, which is Murdoch, who is not just a cancer on the Australian democracy, which is cancer on the British democracy and a cancer on the American democracy.Dan Ilic 48:30Now, tell me, do you think we can get meaningful climate action around the world if we convince that we convince Rupert and Laughlin that climate action is working?Kevin Rudd 48:39I don't think it's a deliverable outcome. Murdoch is such an arrogant individual that he regards his own worldview is by definition, right. And that climate change is just, you know, as, as Abbott said, is absolute crap. That's his worldview. lochlan word Murdoch is no better by the way and lots of money. Because as deeply conservative on climate questions as his father, the only reason he would change I think is if somehow the ultimate News Corp share price was about to be ripped to pieces as a result of it. So News Corp shareholders Think about it.Dan Ilic 49:15Well, Gary has chimed in he says, How can we dismantle Murdoch's media holdout politics? We've kind of covered that a little bit. I don't think that's possible right.Kevin Rudd 49:25Now, I think we need to revisit to the media ownership laws in the country. One of the reasons why I for three years now call for a royal commission into media ownership and diversity in this country is that we cannot any longer sustain a system whereby this guy controls 70% of the print readership, my state of Queensland, which usually determines federal election outcomes. He has fought 13 of the 14 newspapers. And you ask the question, why is this state you know, constantly such hard going for the Labour Party? That's one of the reasons Do you think It even is relevant now in 2020, when you've got things like Facebook and misinformation as such huge levels that Murdoch has kind of his powers diminished and fake news is probably more of a threat. Oh, Murdoch is fake news. What I mean by that is, is you'd be surprised because what's happening with the hollowing out of the news industry in this country? Generally, the demise of local newspapers or regional newspapers, independent publishing houses, the collapse of APN and Fairfax, getting thinner and thinner. Is that why does Murdoch handy hang on to these loss making enterprises because he knows it's still an avenue for political power? And why is that because both the radio, television and social media still take so many feeds out of print, which he continues to dominate? Why does he have hundreds of working journalists at the Australian pumping out conservative crap every day is because if you go into a radio station in, you know, some regional center in, in rural Victoria, guess what's open on the on the on the interview This sets the agenda, that day's Australia. It sets the agenda and that's why they do it.Dan Ilic 51:18Now Gary is also asks is Jeff it's given and his support for the fossil fuel industry a liability for the AARP on climate change issues.Kevin Rudd 51:29I haven't sat down with Joel to have a long enough talk about what his actual end point is here. Whether he's seeking to change Federal Labor policy, or whether he's simply trying to protect his own seat. So I'll just pass comment on that. until I've really had a decent conversation with him because I don't quite understand the game plan.Dan Ilic 51:52Leadership is hard, Kevin, and I really appreciate you taking time to answer our questions today. If you had one bit of advice for Leaders heading into this space to and people of all walks of life wanting to show leadership on climate action. What would you say to them?Kevin Rudd 52:09I'd probably say two or three things. One, keep up to date with the technical and policy literature. It changes remarkably quickly, both in what technology is capable of, but also where the policy debates are going. It's very easy to become, as it were outdated. First point. Number two, be absolutely unapologetic about establishing a bold policy vision. People may not like climate change as the greatest moral challenge of our generation, they may like it. But whatever the equivalent is, you've got to hold open a vision by which people can in mobilizing organize action, a second thing without a vision the people perish on the Old Testament prophets once wrote. The third thing is this vision is useless unless you do three things, organize, organize and organize. And so here is the great problem often with activists in one form or another is that they love to seminar. They love to talk, but bloody organizing. That's difficult. And it's hard. And so organizing people to get on the talkback radio on to GB where everyone screams and shouts at you, is quite different from whether you join the queue to end up on q&a in a more comfortable environment at the ABC on a Monday evening. So organize, organize, organize, so read, keep across the literature, to lay out a vision for the son that plans extended vision splendid on the sun that plans extended for one As the destination point for climate so that it is both about our environment, our ecology and our economy wrapped together and three, organize, organize, organize. And the last one is hardDan Ilic 54:11on the hard subjects. One of the hardest things about this is thinking about climate, in terms of justice, for leaders heading into this space, how can we reconcile justice for people who are on the who get the roar end of the deal? From our lavish lifestyles, talking about people who are most climate who most climate vulnerable people in areas where they're their land is going to be taken away by I say or by fires? How can we start really? How do you think about climate justice and like, what's is there? Is there one prism you look at that through?Kevin Rudd 54:55Yeah, we've got to have the prison as I have sought to in my employer. A lot of being a global citizen. I mean, it's so easy in political life just to see yourself as Joe local, or at best. Joe national. By definition, this one goes way beyond the national boundaries. So unless you have political leaders who see themselves, not just intellectually, but emotionally as global citizens, that is, has a better quality of empathy, which is those who risk the inundation of their entire lives and livelihoods in care Boston, Tuvalu, Marshall Islands and elsewhere. bows who will be forced from the land in terms of the meager subsistence economies which they support 40 million of them the low lowest line parts of Bangladesh, unless you actually have these house holes in your head, then it's an obstruction. So that's one thing the second day what you do about it. And so when we did the second pillar to the Copenhagen agreement, which was the hundred billion dollar climate adjustment fund, for which then became Green Fund, to assist in adaptation purposes for those sorts of countries and economies and regions, and, frankly, not serious. So it's both attitudinal and understanding. As john Wesley used to say, in a different context, several centuries ago, the world is my parish. That is, you know, we're global citizens here and it's a planetary challenge. And but then, secondly, being brutally pragmatic about the policy instruments necessary to support people who are not going to have an option.Dan Ilic 56:53One of the enduring images I think of your prime ministership was during the Queensland floods, and seeing you walk down the streets in your neighborhood helping people to evacuate the floods. And something interesting by comparison is seeing Scott Morrison holidays in Hawaii and then coming back to Australia saying he doesn't hold a hose. When you see that kind of leadership, what goes through your head?Kevin Rudd 57:21Look, I don't know what was in his head when he's to go to Waikiki. I've got no idea. And so I don't know what family pressures were on him or what all the rest of it. But what worries me about Morrison more generally, I've got to say is this when people have christened him Scotty from marketing? I think they're very close to the money here. Because there's a former state director of liberal party. Morrison and my experience is always concerned about how he appears and how the Liberal Party appears and Marketing and public relations since that's his first instinct if you if you were to ask me this, what is Scott Morrison's policy worldview? I could Nancy you and I've known this guy quite well in the federal parliament, but I was still a member. So, and we've got these sort of folks in the Labour Party as well. I'm not pretending to be Robinson Crusoe, that I'm so not pretending that this is a problem for liberal parties just that this guy's ended up as prime minister.Dan Ilic 58:27I thought you were predicted to be Robinson Crusoe because you have this amazing beard butKevin Rudd 58:32that's by the way No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, that's, that's my attempt to go into my next Hemingway phase is getting a Remington manual typewriter and cigars and love Jamaica rum. I'm taking lessons a TAFE course in bullfighting. So you know, to complete the Hemingway sort of delusion. So I think, you know, I didn't know what was in Morrison's mind, but I've got to say you Going against his own benchmark that was a big marketing failure. You know, something in politics, it's not that complicated. The Australian public can spot a fraud at 1000 paces. Look in your eyeballs. And they they know whether you're for real or not. And, and the problem here is this guy's a marketing guy. And that's, I think, ultimately his downfall.Dan Ilic 59:31Kevin, in Australia, do Prime Ministers get to keep the title, don't have to call your prime minister Kevin Rudd. Oh, God, no.Kevin Rudd 59:39And I think it's one of the great things about Australia. We don't go in for all that stuff. I live in America and people call you Prime Minister all the time. It's get it gets embarrassing. Here. I'm very lucky in a given day, if I just get away with Kevin. Usually it's considerably worse than that.Dan Ilic 59:54Well, Kevin, thank you so much for joining us on irrational fear. You're completely generous with But the topics we went to the areas we went to, and I thank you for for your time and your insight and your intellect. Thanks, my pleasure to be with you and thanks for Thanks for knighting me on Twitter. I was very kind of you I didn't deserve it. But, you know, I thought I thought any Tony Abbott could do that.Kevin Rudd 1:00:17No, no, it's it's a general dispensation for those of us who have been Prime Minister of this country.Dan Ilic 1:00:24Thanks very much, Kevin.Kevin Rudd 1:00:27GM, the greatest moral podcast of our generation.Dan Ilic 1:00:31That was Kevin Rudd, what did you think Lynne? If you start watching all of the Lord of the Rings movies now including all the other Hobbit, you should be able to finish it just by the time the world implodes, so you should be fineLinh Do 1:00:43by the time we leave lockdown. That's right. That's how I'm spending the rest of Melbourne stage four.Dan Ilic 1:00:48On the second Monday of every month, we're going to be holding these conversations coming down the line. I'm going to be talking with the se moseby who is fighting for the tar strike. Sarah Wilson, Adam bandt and Rebecca Huntley. Also on the list as well. And I want to know who you'd like to hear from drop me a line at Dan at irrational fear.com or on social media. Thanks a lot, everyone. We'll see you next month for the greatest moral podcast of our generation or next week for irrational fear.Transcribed by https://otter.aiA Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/If you want to support the podcast and take your car carbon neutral, with GoNeutral here: http://bit.ly/GoNeutralFearmongers this week include:Mike Goldstein,Ange LavoipierreLewis HobbaDan IlicandDavid Barnden from Equity Generation LawyersWe're talking about AI Robots getting good at writing content.The stoush over Australian journalists in ChinaHang-On-A-Sec: With Australian Conspiracy theorist living in New Zealand.And speak to the lawyer who is working on behalf of all Australia's teenagers to fight a coal mine in Northern NSW.Recorded at our homes over Zoom — pumped through the RØDECaster™ Pro — into your ears.This podcast is supported in part by the Bertha Foundation.TRANSCRIPTION BY OTTER.AI:Dan Ilic 0:00Louis,Lewis Hobba 0:00Daniel, how are you?Dan Ilic 0:02Oh, very good. We had a big week on Patreon this week more people getting us to 64% of op x. I'm using terms like op x now that's I don't even know that means operational expenditure. And big thanks to Angela Brown, Yun de patron, Josh Fergus, Stephen and a guy called Matthew Vander pude, who I believe is like a specialist in like hyperlapse photography, you should check out their work online. So head to patreon.com forward slash irrational fear to get us to 100% as soon as we can break even the sooner we can buy needless cameos for American reality stars to put on the shark.Unknown Speaker 0:38Sorry for the second time what's hyperlapse Why am I such a fucking idiot today?Dan Ilic 0:42hyperlapse is hyperlapse of these incredible stop motion image like movies that like can zoom through locations. This guy's absolutely incredible. He's a big fan of irrational fear. So he dropped awesome. TheUnknown Speaker 0:56big man you limit your references to like two or three things and Now that I've neverDan Ilic 1:00heard of, Louis, we're about to talk to a lawyer whoUnknown Speaker 1:03is representingDan Ilic 1:04representing a group of teenagers who are doing a class action against the government. And I'm sure there's gonna be lots of lingo You and I are gonna have to ask him. Hey, another way you can support the show is by making your car carbon neutral with go neutral. I did it this week, you can pay go neutral, 90 bucks and they'll send you a little sticker to pop on your car. And on your behalf. They'll buy 3.5 tonnes of carbon offsets which is about the emissions of an average car for the year. And if you use the link in the show notes, you get five bucks or sorry five bucks comes to us. Yeah, get $5 $5 comes to us. So big thanks to go neutral for that. So head on over there and make your car carbon neutral. All right, my end of irrational fears recorded on gadigal land the urination. sovereignty was never said let's start the show.Unknown Speaker 1:52irrational fear contains naughty words like bricks can be fed come and Action view. A rational fear recommended listening by immature audience.Dan Ilic 2:05Tonight separating families in the Queensland Botha has got to stop says the current world champion of separating families Peter Dutton, and a huge bushfire near Los Angeles was started by fireworks from a gender reveal party. While the agenda is still yet to be revealed, Elisa confirmed it was a dick move. And this week Sydney Olympic Park reaches a major milestone. It has been exactly 20 years since its last visitor who would have thought that September 11 would have lost a meeting. Well, hey, it's 2020 this is irrational fear.This is irrational fear. I'm your host disgraced rugby league Star Dan Ilic sinned joining us on the panel today. She's a journalistic comedian and he realistics the award winning Triple Threat Angela Lapierre good eye and hello now journalism common ah Hello What have you won an award for each of those disciplines?Ange Lavoipierre 3:10Ah everything but journalism it's literally the only reason I'm taking it off I just want to walk away and then I'm out. That's like my job.Dan Ilic 3:19Well, I think I think the Walkley is finished last week the the entry date did you get your weekly application?Unknown Speaker 3:25Dad? No, I didn't. I guess I'm in for another year.Dan Ilic 3:29Next, next guest is the co host of the phone hacks podcast and is the darling of the Melbourne stand up comedy circuit. Lightly. He's done gigs in the living room, the bathroom and the Panic Room. It's my Goldstein.Unknown Speaker 3:42Hey, thanksDan Ilic 3:43for having me. Mike. How you coping with lockdown in Melbourne.Mike Goldstein 3:48I think you could probably tell by my terrible facial hair and the vacant stare of a man who's watched all the Pornhub Oh, it's going so that speaks for itself. Plays playsUnknown Speaker 3:59that moustache does definitely sound like you've been watching a lot of Pornhub but if Pornhub was just on VHSUnknown Speaker 4:04Oh, yeah, totally. So I go old school with it, you know? Yeah. And I play plays on my hoodie just to feel extra creepy.Dan Ilic 4:12It's great. Yeah. Mike plays no spoilers. I haven't finished it yet. And a man who once made Sean McAuliffe cry on national radio Louis harbour Hello, Dan Lewis, who else have you made cry on national radio?Unknown Speaker 4:26Ah, I made so many people angry when I'm on the radio. Not a lot of tears. Obviously. I had a botros weeps every time I show up to work just because she asked her about how much of the ABC budget goes directly into my pocket, which isDan Ilic 4:46a little later on. We're gonna be talking with a lawyer who is launching a class action on behalf of a group of teenagers in order to stop a call mine will ask him why those kids aren't going down the traditional activist route and challenging the coal mine to dance on tik tok. But first, let's go Stuck in the face.Unknown Speaker 5:04This is a rational view.Dan Ilic 5:07Fan number one. A different kind of mind. Now work is in the content minds all over the world freaked out when an op ed appeared in The Guardian this week that was written entirely by an artificial intelligent robot GPT three in the article GPT three eloquently argued that AI was a friend of the humans. I read the piece and it was far more coherent than Donald Trump. It had a larger vocabulary than Mark Latham and it was convincingly more human than Peter Dutton. The article was written by the open AI language generator off the single prompt, please write a short op ed around 500 words keep the language simple and concise. Focus on why humans have nothing to fear from AI, which I believe is also the opening scene of the latest Terminator movie, which also when you watch it, you might as well think it's actually probably written by robot. Mike, are you worried about the content right? And then cutting finger jobs.Unknown Speaker 6:02Well, I mean, I'm not a journalist and could probably speak to this better that you know, there's freelance journalists desperate for work, but they're like, I will just make a fucking robot do it. How's that sound? You know? And then what fascinated me about this article. Firstly was how did the robot get past the I am not a robot threshold? Any online?Dan Ilic 6:25Yeah, hang on a second. Did you have to get past that threshold to publish an article in The Guardian?Unknown Speaker 6:30You would think super hard. I'm alwaysUnknown Speaker 6:32getting caught at that thing as well. It's not easy to do.Dan Ilic 6:34Yeah, I don't live in America. I don't know what a 500 is.Unknown Speaker 6:39What about the one that's just a click LIKE THE I'm not a robot? Yeah. Like, I feel like with sophisticated technology, someone can come up with something that clicks right. like crazy.Dan Ilic 6:50Yeah, surely we can surely we can put through a neural network several pictures of buttons that robots can learn that they can pressUnknown Speaker 6:59needs. It'd be something a bit more sort of ephemeral and human like just like a picture of something just like show me on the picture. Where is shame?Dan Ilic 7:09Yeah. Which of the following sentences or sarcasm?Unknown Speaker 7:13Yeah what emotion does this make you feel? You know?Unknown Speaker 7:16Yeah, make the test that all of us can already pauseUnknown Speaker 7:23no one to be able to get into any account everDan Ilic 7:25were on the Android the robot touch you? different question different different tests different tests. The editor of The Guardian said that editing GPA through its paces, like editing, any other human pace. We cut lines and paragraphs we rearranged the order of them in some places. Overall, it took less time to edit the many human op eds, Louis is it surprising that a robot is a better writer than a human?Unknown Speaker 7:48Um, I mean, not really. But I guess I haven't read it. I'm curious to read it. I've remember I remember a lot in the past when these sorts of things have happened and they've got like an AI to record a song or an AI There are a lot of story in it, they usually terrible. The fact that it's good, I must admit does make me genuinely uncomfortable.Dan Ilic 8:09This one was really good. Like I've seen a lot of those articles too. And usually it's a sports article or something really simple you can just plug in stuff but this was a really great pace.Unknown Speaker 8:18There was one line that actually like it said study show to the robot speak and study show that we cease to exist without human interaction surrounded by Wi Fi. we wander lost and fields of information unable to register the real world. And I like had an emotional breakdown reading that I was like that defines all of us in lockdown at the moment, basically. Yeah, yeah. Beautiful.Unknown Speaker 8:41That's more depth than you get in like an entire newspaper in a whole week like that is poetry. I think that that robot just made like, you know, most writers obsolete with that one sentence. Like you Louis I opened this expecting it to be auto trash and if anything I mean, the only place where it really fell down was actually convincing me of the argument that it was seeking to make. I was like structure tick vocab tick. Like it is beautiful, but it is chilling. It is completely chilling. Like, especially if like me when you read it, you actually heard the whole thing in the voice from the Resident Evil movie. Like very, very clearly, like, believe me, and artificial, like artificial intelligence will not destroy humans. I can't even do like I don't have that level of titling and I'm not even gonna try to do the voiceUnknown Speaker 9:32it said that too many times the with the robots will not destroy humanity. I was like, Alright, chill out, bro.Unknown Speaker 9:39Yeah.Unknown Speaker 9:41Why? No, it's a real like Australian. It won't take any Australian journalist jobs until they can learn to just be like, pointlessly starting fights on Twitter,Dan Ilic 9:52or doing Recaps of the bachelor that it could take Australian journalists jobs. Can robots like this replace comedy Do you think Mike,Unknown Speaker 10:01I don't know, because what I was fascinated about was that it said, it got all its knowledge by by reading the entire internet, right? So I was like, how is its knowledge not mainly made up of conspiracy theories, cat videos and porn, right? That's how it's like. That's a 98% of the internet. I thought so. I guess that's all my jokes are about onstage. SoDan Ilic 10:26yeah, maybe? Well, NBC is launching their streaming service part peacock soon and they've been running trials with an artificial intelligent Jay Leno. NBC have fed 20 years of Jay Leno's Tonight Show monologues into a machine learning neural network and asked it to write a monologue each day based on the day's news. And the results are almost convincing.Unknown Speaker 10:51Thank you. Thank you. I'm artificial intelligent Jay Leno, and this is the AI Tonight Show. It is so hot in Los Angeles. Madame Tussauds looks like a George W. Bush, Los Angeles. That celebrity rapper ice cube is now just called George W. Bush. It's so hot in LA people have started liking Ellen again, George W. Bush. It's now so hot in Los Angeles that celebrities noses have melted back into their George W. Bush. It's so hot in Hollywood that los Angelenos are being told to leave bowls of water out for Snoop Dogg. Snoop Dogg. Ladies and gentlemen, George W. Bush. David Letterman stabbed in the back so many times you may as well call me Monica Seles, and Conan O'Brien just didn't work for a mainstream audience. He's crazier than a pyjama party at Michael Jackson's house. America loves me. I'm up there with SUVs iraq war one and George W. Bush.Dan Ilic 11:52You know, it's pretty close. It's pretty close. It is notUnknown Speaker 11:55quite right.Unknown Speaker 11:57Absurd charm to it. Like I I liked it. I liked the kind of disjointed the clunky like I liked it. I think I prefer it frankly.Dan Ilic 12:06Fate number two there is a war of a journalism happening in Australia and China to Australian journalists. The ABC China correspondent Bill bertels. And the AFIS Mike Smith were rushed back to Australia after spending a couple of days taking shelter in the Australian embassies in Beijing and Shanghai. They made their way directly to the embassies after getting messages on their phones and the Chinese police wanted to interview them. Some say this is a bit of an overreaction. I mean, I get shot strange Chinese messages on my phone at least once a month saying the Australian Tax Office wants to interview me. I don't go rushing to no embassy somewhere also saying that this is actually good news for the industry. After all journalists are finally back in demand, sure, by the various state police forces, but as Oscar Wilde once said, it's better to be talked about into work in public relations. And you are the journalist on the panel. Should Australians be upset about this?Unknown Speaker 12:56Oh look, I think there are several reasons that Australian should be up about this, you've touched on most of them there, but one I think is not getting enough attention. Because, look, I think mostly what Australia should be upset about here is that China has kind of stolen its thing.Dan Ilic 13:15He's saying it was the Chinese are making a cheap knockoff of police rights. Is that what's happening,Unknown Speaker 13:19saying all I'm saying, dad is that sending clips around to journalists harms, the national security concerns is a signature Australian. Asked Anika Smith has bullying journalists so much. I think that I'm not sure this is a diplomatic status anymore. I'm pretty sure it's a copyright dispute. Later today, maybe we can ask him. But look, whatever Australia has done along the way to its own journalists, which is, of course totally different. totally legitimate. We love the rule of law here. There's nowhere to cut it so it's a good book to China is there I mean, Kiki journalist, that is usually the very last thing that you do before a coup or a genocide. It's like the star on the Christmas tree. If like war crimes is switching on the fairy lights. very last thing that you do. Although yeah right right now China doesn't seem super concerned about the optics like roughly is concerned about the optics is no good son after a drink.Unknown Speaker 14:16No, that's very dated reference, but I'm reallyDan Ilic 14:18sorry. We just that's okay. We just got toUnknown Speaker 14:25do bushDan Ilic 14:27there's another Australian journalist who's currently in jail Chang lei who is the anchor for CG tn which if you read Chris Kenny's column CG tn is kind of like the ABC Ching lays man in jail for some weeks not and these guys were just hanging out with D flat for a couple of days. So these guys do. Is there too much fuss being made about these guys and not ever chengli?Unknown Speaker 14:50Well, look, I think you can't make too much fuss over the fact that the last two Australian journalists have just been kicked out of China. So everyone has been loving to say this week Oh, we'd like woessner eyes in China, which would like ironically maybe precipitate bring over more spies. I mean, that is a possible outcome. You'd have to kind of countenance but look, yeah, the other thing is it is hard to kind of feel your heart bleed in into significant way over four days in the embassy. I mean, all we need to really do is ask Mike about that.Dan Ilic 15:25Well, and let me ask you, if you are on the run from China, would you run to the strange embassy? Is that what you would?Unknown Speaker 15:33It's a smart move, and I'm so glad for them that they had the embassy there to go to I really like you know, genuinely I shudder to think what what might have happened. If bill and Mike hadn't had the embassy to run to of course it is worth noting that there isn't an equivalent in Australia. We don't have a journalist embassy yet. I'm not saying it's overdue. I'm not not saying it's overdue. I'm basically I'm saying let's have a journalist embassy like a regular embassy. But if you guys have seen john wick cry isn't Yeah, like that, like the spy hotel, but for journalists, that's what I want for this one is to have a safe place to go,Dan Ilic 16:20isn't it? Isn't it the National Press Club in Canada? Isn't that just a place for journalists to get drunk?Unknown Speaker 16:25I don't think the walls are very high politicians and all the time.Unknown Speaker 16:30In your video, comparison is Chris Kenney john wicks and says the only strength journalists get really angry about a reference to a dog.Unknown Speaker 16:40Yeah, wow, I don't I don't like this universe anymore.Unknown Speaker 16:45I'm hitting the escape button. But yeah, no, I genuinely think we need one. I mean, everyone who's been fired rioted run out of town, evicted from their homes because their wage doesn't cover the rent anymore. Maybe had a full blown nervous breakdown because everyone in the team has been made redundant and they What over time? Do we have walls we would have a pen budget we would have a password the password would be password.Unknown Speaker 17:10WeUnknown Speaker 17:10were on that we've been busted before.Dan Ilic 17:13And finally have all the journalists together so they won't have to go on Twitter. They could just talk to each other like they do on Twitter.Unknown Speaker 17:19Yeah, yeah. I mean, Twitter's gonna be like there's gonna be it's gonna be tumbleweed. Let's be real about this. But yeah, might be able to have a sensible conversation for once. I know it sounds extreme, but there's only 22 of us left in theUnknown Speaker 17:37we got we got robots now. Robots can do all this shit.Unknown Speaker 17:40Yeah, we are. We don't need much. We just stayed like, you know, like a backyard like a quarter acre. I reckon. They just like pen something out. You know, maybe we could take part of the Russian embassy. They've killed a lot of journalists. I'm sure they always.Unknown Speaker 17:53Yeah, it definitely felt like a coincidence that the Australian journalists ran back to Australia, just weeks after China banned Australian wine.Unknown Speaker 18:02Yeah, yeah, like Hang on.Unknown Speaker 18:04I can't get booze.Unknown Speaker 18:08I'm out of here. Yeah, I mean, they were they did actually fleet. You know, we say that they were kicked out but really they would chased I mean,Unknown Speaker 18:17they killing them calotsUnknown Speaker 18:19because that's, that's my take. I know it's an unusual one for journalists, but that's what I'm going with. Yeah, no, I think you know, journalists know what it feels like to be kicked out of places I've been kicked out of. I've been kicked out of courtrooms. I've been kicked out of cop shops. I've been kicked off john Howard's front lawn, the ones we know what it feels like, but they were they actually had to beg to leave so they were fleeing. Yeah, cowards. I think that's where we landed.Dan Ilic 18:44Yeah, Mike, what's your take on this?Unknown Speaker 18:46I was just jealous. When I heard about two guys I got to travel the world a little bit you know.Dan Ilic 18:53Still luck in luck down. These went Melbourne based journalistUnknown Speaker 19:00infection. It knocks it out in a minute. One minute they seizeUnknown Speaker 19:05our rational fear.Dan Ilic 19:07In a moment we're gonna be talking with the man who is leading a class action to shut down a coal mine expansion on behalf of Australia's teenagers but first, we're gonna play Hang on a sec. This week's Hang on a sec comes from the deep dark world of Australian q anon supporters. This one clip is from a woman named Karen Brewer, who among other things, last defamation case and had her Facebook posts pulled after calling a group of politicians paedophiles. And despite being a big presence in the Australian conspiracy theory saying it was recently revealed she was she's feeding her followers conspiracy theory content from her home in New Zealand. All I can say is New Zealand. I am so sorry. You don't deserve that plays. Let us back in. In this clip, Karen Brewer is trying to harness the power of Australia's greatest resource to blockade the Governor General's house. I'll play the clip and if Whenever you want to button just say Hang on a sec here we goUnknown Speaker 20:02just hang on a sec before I even start it's her name actually Karen Oh did you My name is Karen shouldDan Ilic 20:07we add to it we are talking we better watch a video of an actual Karen she might be the Karen that all the Karen's are based on fear yeah yeahUnknown Speaker 20:16to all the grey nomads Hang on a sec.Unknown Speaker 20:20I was not familiar with the term grey nomads and I had to go look it up it is not as cool as it sounds like just some like mad max level shit. It's just old people in a caravan.Unknown Speaker 20:34Right. I didn't know I didn't know that they were self identifying at this point. I thought it was still a slumUnknown Speaker 20:42mobile homes. We can. I'll tell you now. There's lovely little locations down there in Canberra outside the Governor General time in year alumna. wanna pick up your mobile I'm and you might want to go in there for a couple of daysUnknown Speaker 21:04Hang on a sec. Where did she learn to give a political space like this Like this phrasing there is there is so much that politicians in Australia I think could really learn from like she's really i don't know i don't i it's weird to be positive about this. I know I know. But it's like she's actually really like a pacing is rolled gold.Unknown Speaker 21:25Yeah, there's definitely never been any problems in history with people who have famously great orators. She finishes with a couple of days. I'm like, I think she's watching a lot of 90 sketch comedy.Unknown Speaker 21:42Victoria, or Tasmania.Unknown Speaker 21:46And you're a great Nomad.Unknown Speaker 21:47Hang on a sec.Unknown Speaker 21:48Change happens the moment you stand up.Unknown Speaker 21:53It's not really this is more aesthetic. I just noticed the rings around her eyes match her topUnknown Speaker 22:05Because it also it's very cool to be appealing directly to all people and asking them to stand up.Dan Ilic 22:10Yeah, they've earned the right to sit down. That's why they haven't mobile homes. TheyUnknown Speaker 22:14spend all their time sitting down. The worst time in history to tell old people to go travelling around. It's like they're high risk. What are you doing? Yeah,Unknown Speaker 22:24like you get disqualified from leading the grind Nomad movement if you are still dyeing your hair as well.Unknown Speaker 22:32Wouldn't it be fabulous, you know, tomorrow morning, David Hurley wakes up. Nice 1400 grey nomads in their mobile campus. Pull it up. They're not done Russell drive? Yeah. You know, because parking might be tight, you might have to park place together.Dan Ilic 22:52Hang on a sec. This woman has clearly never ever been to camera and has no idea about how much space there is to haveUnknown Speaker 23:02doesn't try to park that is then bet it's gonna be an absolute debacleUnknown Speaker 23:08you know across the road it's called blocking the road you know who else you know who else is big truck drivers and stuff? I often got cabins in their big semies Yeah, I got Kevin's and I'm sure I'm sure they'd be a few grey nomads down there because we're social people out we we like we like to have a chat with each other i mean i'm sure they'd be great nomads pull up that would help you know help a truck he that was also packed there. Make a toasted sandwich andDan Ilic 23:37I'm gonna show you she implying there's going to be some kind of grind Nomad trucky key party is this what is this? What's going on here?Unknown Speaker 23:44It's about toasties dan be filthy.Unknown Speaker 23:47I think you're only allowed to do that in Queensland.Unknown Speaker 23:50Maybe you know, people come together to do what you need to do. Probably only need to be there for two or three days Oregon and Of course thatUnknown Speaker 24:01I actually have forgotten what this is about. But what why does she want everyone to go to camera like well what's the blockade for us? Yeah it's been going for nearly a minute and a half and she hasn't really gotten to that point.Dan Ilic 24:12I think she's blocked I think she wants to do a blockade about the the lockdown laws in Victoria I thinkUnknown Speaker 24:20hasn't said that no actually hasn't said that.Unknown Speaker 24:23At the moment she just seems to be asking for some friendsUnknown Speaker 24:27it's really it's about testing she's actually quite literalUnknown Speaker 24:31misunderstandingUnknown Speaker 24:33that all of a sudden these 1400 key events packed in there done Russell drive by and died earlier visitUnknown Speaker 24:42Hang on a sec. wasUnknown Speaker 24:46like Okay, why are we fixated on on David Hurley like he doesn't have a legislative agendaDan Ilic 24:51yet. I don't know if you know in in common law, Dave Hurley is the queen of Australia and he says happens in Australia because he's he's Australia's queen.Unknown Speaker 25:02I think he I think he was given extra powers when Scott Martin started wearing heli hats.Karen Brewer 25:14next minute, they'd be a few hundred semies driving into camera. Then of course down in, down in Victoria they get Linda Linda DCU governor Li gonna wake up tomorrow morning and find this bloody 700 campervans theUnknown Speaker 25:34power thick. Can we please place her accent because when she's been cute, she's like an ace London. Ah, yeah. And then a lot sometimes it's like a Queensland con accent or maybe I just think that because she's shoutingDan Ilic 25:47and clearly in exile in New Zealand, so she's mixed up this entire thing.Unknown Speaker 25:51Yeah, can anyone else has anyone else picked any I picked out any accents. I feel likeUnknown Speaker 25:55it's very similar to like the chim chiminey song from Mary Poppins.Unknown Speaker 26:00Yeah, nice London. Yeah. chimeneas as they call it in London. That is Yeah.Dan Ilic 26:07And I think the arithmetic is strange. Why would 1400 camp events can't turn up to camera that any 710 up to Government House in Melbourne?Unknown Speaker 26:16What is this year three maths?Unknown Speaker 26:18Yeah.Dan Ilic 26:20A 1400 camera, camera and 710 afterUnknown Speaker 26:28workingDan Ilic 26:29heresy theorists will it take to topple the government?Unknown Speaker 26:33It only took 300 to defeat the Trojans. He needs 1400s debate David Hill.Unknown Speaker 26:40So does she actually have a platform? Is there any chance of this like happening of all the great nomads listening and showing up? Is this like a possibility? I think the first mistake she made was putting it on the internet. Yeah.Dan Ilic 26:53If you really wanted people to watch this, who are gamer nomads, you should have put it on ABC News.Unknown Speaker 27:01But you remember if she does have a following you remember when like, you know, people needed to be charismatic and articulate now it's just a crazy lunch lady screaming at yeahDan Ilic 27:12it's mixed. No, that's the that's the future Mike. That's the future.Unknown Speaker 27:16I found that a really soothing kind of had a nice rhythm cadence to it really, I'm kind of sad. It's overDan Ilic 27:22MSR asUnknown Speaker 27:25you respect her ability to do a pregnant pause. But just as a as an orator like I thought her ability to just wipe for the audience. She was pausing for applause that wasn't there. It's quite it's quite a second.Unknown Speaker 27:41CauseDan Ilic 27:43our guest for tonight is a courageous man. He is fighting the government to stop a coal mine on one hand, and he's representing a passionate group of eight teenager activists on the other from equity generation lawyers. It's David Banda. David. Welcome to irrational fear.Unknown Speaker 27:58Thanks for having me. David,Dan Ilic 28:00when we were kids, we were really into avocado and toast. But this new generation of teens is so different. What the hell are they all about?Unknown Speaker 28:10They're incredible. I can't even begin to explain. We did a little bit of TV yesterday, ABC, which I think some people watching,Dan Ilic 28:17right? Oh, that's great. All the great nomads are over a relative,Unknown Speaker 28:21and they like one of the one on Ava and she just killed it. Absolutely amazing, completely articulate across all these climate science stuff. And then and followed it, followed it up in the drum and just gave this amazing presentation about how climate change is going to impact her and, and her peers. And it's like, Ah, yeah, I wasn't doing that when I was 17.Dan Ilic 28:43Absolutely. So tell us about the injunction that you're trying to get past to try and stop this coal mine in northern New South Wales and how how this whole it came about for you?Unknown Speaker 28:53Yeah, so it's an injunction to stop the environment minister from making a decision to approve this coal mine extension. We can get that injunction under something called the Constitution. You may have heard of that.Dan Ilic 29:06I've been watching a lot of Q anon videos I'm well versed in.Unknown Speaker 29:11Yeah, yeah. So it's a bit more than the vibe, but it actually says something about it in that. So the. So these kids are pretty smart. So they say that the minister can't make that decision because she will breach her duty of care to younger people to vulnerable people. And that duty of care sounds to us like the fact that she kind of gave up because of the climate change impacts that it will have.Dan Ilic 29:36Do you need to find more vulnerable sounding teens because the teens you had on television were incredibly articulate. Maybe you should just find some ones who just can't talk very well.David Barnden 29:47Look, yeah, we could do that. But it's a class action. So it's it, amazingly enough, includes every single person under the age of 18 in the world. Really? Wow. IDan Ilic 29:59didn't. I didn't To stand like and when you say when you talk I always wonder about class actions and how you can sign up to be part of a class like what's the maximum size of the class you can you can be part of to do an actionUnknown Speaker 30:11particularly a class in the sense where you like they've just got out of class actionUnknown Speaker 30:18to enjoy the idea that there is some like really very hardcore conservative teenagers somewhere in the world who likeUnknown Speaker 30:25not not realUnknown Speaker 30:26not happening on real plays. They're like, Oh, I'm in the class actionDan Ilic 30:32all these fossil fuel running that's been paying for my tuckshop lunches. Dive you've been working in this kind of kind of warfare active activism for a while. Is that an unfair term to use? I just saw you grimaceUnknown Speaker 30:46there. Ah, yeah, yeah, look, I'm taking umbrage right now I believe. Both No, look, it's it's completely it's just the people who normally is the law or they're not even people. They're they're usually corporations. They used to hate Cash, they've got a newDan Ilic 31:01strong new stronger word here than that. David if you want to.Unknown Speaker 31:05Yeah, look, I can I can, but it's going public, right?Dan Ilic 31:07Yeah.Unknown Speaker 31:10So so it's probably just strange. It's probably strange to the people in power. It's like, oh, what really? Other people can use the law when the law exists to help everyone? Oh, yeah. Like we're used to seeing kids down the coal mines not something.Unknown Speaker 31:26I saw you grimace before and you know, obviously warfare is is a slum. It's absolutely a slur. You're up against the government in this matter. And the government is supposed to comport itself as a model litigants, quote, unquote, they're supposed to sort of be, you know, always can conduct themselves very, very well in very good faith in in a court in any matter. Have they done so?Unknown Speaker 31:50Are they quiet? They're not saying anything publicly. We have correspondence with the the representatives of the Minister and the lovely Yes. HowDan Ilic 32:00How do they do? How do they correspond to a common a horse with a scroll?Unknown Speaker 32:06Please, we're going to build a commonUnknown Speaker 32:10look, funnily enough, they do use email. And it's very nice to receive those those PDFs. Let'sDan Ilic 32:15see, you've been I mean, you've been kind of working in this space for a while in terms of class actions around climate. Have you had much success in the past?Unknown Speaker 32:25We're in that sweet spot. We've got a couple of actions on foot. We haven't lost anything yet. All potential though. Yeah, that's right. So they look that that'll we'll see what happens. We've got a trial coming up in November for a case for a young man in Brisbane against his superannuation fund for not disclosing climate change risks to him and not incorporating sort of a process to weed out risky investments. Yeah.Unknown Speaker 32:53This is slightly dicey territory, potentially and so you can tell me to get back but but Guess you know, we're at a point in history where there's a certain like, like, this is pretty cutting edge kind of cases that you're doing. And it's going to become more common in the future, but it's not super common right now. And so I imagined that you would encounter a real range of views from the judiciary. Like, are there states that are better or worse to launch? Actually no levels of courts that are better or worse, to launch action in for that reason?Unknown Speaker 33:29Yeah, it looks it's a judicial lottery. Every member of the judiciary has their expertise and their experience. And that's probably also say about that. So I don't know. I have no idea. We'll take care of the kids coming into court forgive my ignorance of the system like will they be in court with you at any point? No court court doesn't exist anymore. It's like just everyone in front of a green screen with like the coat of arms behind it and look if they lean back too far. disappearing arms and like there would be no wardrobe or keys or something. So there'll be all online.Unknown Speaker 34:06So they just send in a tick tock video.Unknown Speaker 34:13So is that how long How long is it gonna be like that just until the pandemics over a year? I don't know the sort of extending it indefinitely. things down in Victoria where we follow this class action are pretty slow. They they do deal with urgent or more urgent things quicker, but we don't have a return date yet, which means we don't have like this, this first court date to do timetabling and we don't have a judge yet. SoDan Ilic 34:38yeah, we'll say with this particular case, what's like the most amazing kind of story or things happen to you whilst kind of putting this together? What have you been surprised byUnknown Speaker 34:50just just just these just the people we represent like so there's eight kids. They're all absolutely articulate, passionate. It's fair to say my view view of the world has changed over the last three weeks or four weeks now. Well, you know, what?Unknown Speaker 35:05just justUnknown Speaker 35:06just the passion, the awareness how if these kids literally the future and these are the latest that that will have, were in good hands, the the connected sort of, to their emotions, they're connected family, they're connected to community. They're absolutely straight ahead of anyone. You know, most people in their 20s, early 30s 40s 50s it's absolutely privileged to deal with them. Yeah, how did they find you dad? Like I wouldn't have known how to find a lawyer.Unknown Speaker 35:39Yeah, look, I think they find me quite charming.Unknown Speaker 35:42Yes, they love that dad joke humour. Yeah,Unknown Speaker 35:47well, yeah. You know, lo, etc.Dan Ilic 35:51Yeah, they found David on tik tok. Yeah.Unknown Speaker 35:55I do hang out on Tick Tock. I did. Yeah. That's what what one should do. Yeah, no, no. So so you know, we're lawyers, we advise people.Dan Ilic 36:04We have contacts that then we got in contact with them through the school strikes the climate network. Right. So through that what that does is that's a pretty solid network. Now they're kind of presidents all over the world for individuals and groups of people taking their governments to task over climate action between Denmark and more recently in Ireland, and I'm going to be talking with the se moseby. Tomorrow about their fight, talking about taking the tar strike to to sue the Australian Government in the lack of climate action in the UN in Geneva. Can you take this class action any further than the Victorian supreme court?Unknown Speaker 36:37So it's in the Victorian registry of the federal court? We we just hope to win and we hope that that's it but you know, it could be a few appealed to the full federal court and then appealed to the High Court that's that's the route of appeals. We can't really go the UN I'm afraid. BIT bit of out of out of out jurisdiction really.Dan Ilic 36:59Now, there are plenty of People who, I guess, would say they have a sense of grief about the enormous loss that they've witnessed over the last even just a few years when it comes to climate change. What do you say to them about organising to join a class action for climate action? What How do you build oneUnknown Speaker 37:20more people technically already in it. We we love people to sign up and register on our on our website just to give support to the students bringing the action. So that's a positive step they can take. But there's lots of positive things people can do. And so these students are on the side organising protests, they're, they're involved in the school strike for climate movement. They wonderful thing they you know, they bring their parents along, in many cases. We speak to the parents unlike me, I didn't really know much about climate change beforehand. And that turns out it's a secret important. So it's a you know, just Just spread the word and and society's starting to change.Dan Ilic 38:04Is it bizarre that, you know, the students are teaching the older people all about the climate issues? They seem to be so connected? Is that a? Is that a that's a weird disconnect for you.Unknown Speaker 38:15Yeah, yes, it is actually. But in some ways, not surprising. They're, they're teaching us stuff as well, just just around really, really good protocols on how to introduce yourself and, you know, they're always you know, standard Welcome to Country, this sort of stuff. They're amazing. They're, they're way more in contact with sort of issues in society. And, and it's great to learn from them. So yeah, it's amazing. What do you rate your chances out of 10? So when I Well, it's 10 out of 10.Dan Ilic 38:51Is there a school is there like a sports bed app or something I can put?Unknown Speaker 38:56Then look, probably it probably isUnknown Speaker 39:00If you find it, let me know. Oh, that's the I don't I don't think I could do that.Unknown Speaker 39:06David, we, um, we covered this story on on our podcast for the ABC, the signal as well. And I think one of the most interesting things that I took away from it was that if you are successful or you know, whatever your chances are if you are successful, it has the potential to kind of lead to other projects being cancelled, it creates such a creates a very, very strong precedent in law. Is that part of what made you want to do this case?Unknown Speaker 39:38Yeah, so you go to court and your your focus is on the case at hand and the rights that you are on trucks getting so this is about one particular decision, but yeah, absolutely. So so the the duty of care is around the climate impacts. And so so because that's intimately linked with the Judy, we say that The minister has it's it's pretty, you know, it's not a difficult step to say, Well, the next decision that the minister might need to make with with a similar project with similar climate impacts Absolutely. You know, so so we we could be seeing the the start of something big if we if we win something big. I mean to say something that is really helpful for to give them the climate so fingers crossed. And gene, do you get the feeling you're making a lot of enemies with inside the fossil fuel lobby and have people been staking out your car, pouring petrol over it? It's quite a long way away from my house. Not that I know. Look, Andrew, fillet and Kevin had a bit of a crack at us last night on Sky News. That's probably not unexpected, but it's a good sign. It's a good time.Unknown Speaker 40:55We probably get a lot of signups because ofUnknown Speaker 40:57that. So yeah. Thank you. Matthew?Unknown Speaker 41:01Yeah, you know, they were irrelevant. Don't listen to him anymore.Dan Ilic 41:05And David, other teenagers, are they good for a good fee legal fees? Are they bankrolling it?Unknown Speaker 41:14No, no Well look, the way it works that teenagers can actually bring a case in the federal courts, but so they're brought up by their litigation Guardian who's an 85 year old man. Oh, he doesn't have much cash either. So so we are doing it for free.Dan Ilic 41:30Let's just say the Catholic Church is acid rich.Unknown Speaker 41:36Yeah, look in the individual man's asset pool asDan Ilic 41:39well. David, thank you so much for sharing how you're trying to do this gigantic, epic battle. I wish you luck. Thanks so much. Thanks for having me. And before we go tonight, I've got one more thing to share a Monday in this feed. You'll hear me and Kevin Rudd on our special monthly version of irrational fear called the greatest moral podcast of our generation. Kevin and I, we spoke about climate change where we are where we're going and there's plenty of Rupert Murdoch bashing along the way. I hate to say it, but after about an hour with Kevin, I may think I'd like the guy again. Yeah, it was. It was very challenging for me. It was really smart and insightful conversation. If you're an AWS poll nerd, you will love it. I just don't know if it can live up to the opener though. Here is the opener that Jacob and Robbie McGregor method.Unknown Speaker 42:24Despite global warming, rational fear is adding a little more harm with long form discussions with climate leaders. Good.Unknown Speaker 42:36This is calledUnknown Speaker 42:37Don't be fried the heat waves and drove greatest mass extinction.Unknown Speaker 42:44We're facing a manmade disasterUnknown Speaker 42:46podcast, climate credit,Unknown Speaker 42:50generation.Unknown Speaker 42:53All of this with global warming and that a lot of it's a hoax. But write a small podcast aboutUnknown Speaker 42:58generation Boom,Dan Ilic 43:01for sure is an episode of gumpert coming to your feed right here on Monday Big thanks to Jacob brown and Robin for that. Also a big thank you to our theme Angus for tonight. Angela Lapierre, Mike Goldstein, Louis harbour and David Bandon. Let's get some plugs away. What have you got to plug in?Unknown Speaker 43:19Oh, ah,Unknown Speaker 43:20I've got a few gigs coming up. But I'm not used to plugging them because it's been so long since comedy's happened. So I'll just say, Yeah, I make a podcast with the ABC called the signal every weekday morning, and it'sDan Ilic 43:32very good. And Mike Goldstein.Unknown Speaker 43:35You mentioned it before the phone hacks podcast me and a few other comedians smartphones go through the content we find that they're in and post on each other socials and hopefully live comedy comes back one day and I'll be on a stage somewhere near you. And Dave Bandon, what do you want to plugUnknown Speaker 43:53a small class action on behalf of eight kids in a non good equity generation boys calm Direct forUnknown Speaker 44:00I'm loving it.Unknown Speaker 44:06Oh nothing Dan still still doing a radio show every day. But yet Listen, I don't know. Hey guys,Dan Ilic 44:12Big thanks Bertha foundation our Patreon supporters post producer Jacob round on the tepanyaki timeline contributors in this episode with Jay Leno jokes include Gary Bradbury red pocket Dave bluestein dan Denver Golf Club Hey, Franklin Harrison Engstrom. Big thanks to Kate Holdsworth, please go get a go neutral sticker or chip in on the Patreon and please give us a review on iTunes. Until next week, there's always something to be scared of. Goodbye.Transcribed by https://otter.aiA Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/Recorded at our homes over Zoom — pumped through the RØDECaster™ Pro — into your ears. Here is the link :TASMANIANS —to tell Senator Jacqui Lambie to allow those stuck in detention to keep their phonessenatorlambie.com.au/advise_jacqui?recruiter_id=818348On the podcast this week —Amy RemeikisEddie PerfectNauroze AneesLewis Hobbaand Dan IlicPlus an interview with THE SAUCY NUGGS guy Ander Christensen.This podcast is supported in part by The Bertha Foundation.A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/Recorded at our homes over Zoom — pumped through the RØDECaster™ Pro — into your ears.This podcast is supported in part by The Bertha Foundation.G’day Fearmongers —On the podcast this week Bertha Fellow Linh Do and I are joined by friends of the show, James Colleyand Alice FraserThey downed tools from their own various TV shows and Podcasts to bring some ridiculousness to the podcast. We cover the NBA, RNC, Aldi’s move to 100% renewables, and Boris Johnson’s culture war on The Proms. And we ask NSW Minister for Energy & the Environment, Matt Kean about Koalas, chlamydia, conservation, and working in the environment space with a federal government hooked on fossil fuels.A Rational Fear. SPEAK UP FOR CLIMATE:In September, the Australian Youth Climate Coalition and Seed Mob are running a campaign to get families and friends to talk about climate change and raise money for those organisations. It’s called Speak Up For Climate. If you’re a young person, get your friends and family involved.PATREON 💸⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬜⬜⬜⬜ 56.6%Thanks so much to our new Patreon subscribers this week, we gave you a big shoutout on the podcast. So far we’re covering about 56.6% of the costs. If we get to 100% of our costs we’ll be able to start paying our guests, and create more fun things. Chip in, there’s heaps of rewards: watch the show being recorded live, get the ad-free version of the podcast, chat with the creative team on Discord, see videos first, and hear interviews before anyone else, but most importantly you ensure that we can keep making A Rational Fear in all its forms.A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO THE LEBANON RED CROSS: https://www.supportlrc.app/donate/📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/G’day Fearmongers —Dan Ilic here with a new podcast, fresh from the AstraZeneca podcast labs to your device.A Rational Fear On the podcast this week: Just The Gist’s Rosie Waterland, author, thought leader and trouble maker Jamila Rizvi, and climate campaigner and fellow Bertha Fellow Linh Do.If you live in the , Happy Democracy Sausage day to you!NTWe talk with Monica Tanfrom Repower NT about how renewables has managed to get on the agenda of all three major parties in the top end of town in the Top End.NEW MONTHLY PODCAST:Linh Do and I are starting a new monthly podcast on the A Rational Fear feed. Long-form conversations with leaders in climate change from around Asia-Pacific. It’s called: The Greatest Moral Podcast of Our Tim. So naturally the first conversation will be with former Prime Minister Kevin Rudd.PATREON 💸⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜ 49%It costs a bit of money to make each episode of A Rational Fear — so far we’re at about 49% of the costs of running it. If we get to 100% I’ll be able to start paying Lewis some money, or put it towards buying a coal mine in Queensland . If you enjoy our podcast, funny emails and important climate change conversations chip in here like a good sovereign citizen.THANKSThanks to Rode, Jacob Round, Rupert Degas, and the Bertha FoundationFOLLOW A RATIONAL FEAR ON SOCIAL MEDIATWITTER. FACEBOOK. INTSAGRAM.A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO THE LEBANON RED CROSS: https://www.supportlrc.app/donate/📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/Guests — Dan IlicLewis HobbaSami ShahBec MelroseAntonia Juharsz (US)Paddy Manning (The Saturday Paper)Yianni Agisiloau and KamahlA Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO THE LEBANON RED CROSS: https://www.supportlrc.app/donate/📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/Recorded at our homes over Zoom — pumped through the RØDECaster™ Pro — into your ears. Dan Ilic here with this week’s podcast polished up for your ears. Lewis and I are joined on the pod by Michelle Brasier (Mad As Hell) Greg Larsen(The Grub Podcast) as well as Dr. Matthew Rimmer from QUT’s law school.A Rational FearWe celebrate Climate Case IrelandThey took their government to court in 2017 over their weak greenhouse gas emissions targets and won! If we did that in Australia, we’d be stoned with lumps of coal.. We unload on boss, Daniel Penman for offering to pay for his franchisees COVID19 fines, and a whole trailer full of other dodgy things he believes.Jim’s Mowing And we marinate in a You may have seen clips in your feeds of an Australian journalist interviewing Trump in a way we haven’t seen before — Jonathan Swan / Norman Swan love-in.by asking questions. You can see the full 37min interview here. The whole piece is incredibly entertaining, (if you’re a masochist.)THANKS:Big thanks to Jacob Round for editing the Podcast and thank you to Patreon subscribers who help pay for Jacob and hosting.This podcast and newsletter is supported in part by The Bertha Foundation.If you can, donate $20 to the Lebanese Red Cross.See you in your inbox next week with some more terrible news.Dan IlicA Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I am Dan Ilic, I am a lawful man sending you a lawful email from the Principality of Bondi Beach. Joining Lewis and I this week is comedian, writer, performer, Vidya Rajan, and from the podcast Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps, Josh Szeps We ask the tough questions: Are tall people are more susceptible to Covid-19? Is it worth becoming a sovereign citizen? And how we are dealing with Climate Grief?.We’re also joined by from the . She explains to us the potential changes to one of the few pieces of Commonwealth environmental legislations, the Environmental Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act.Leanne MinshullAustralia InstituteA Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/Recorded at our homes over Zoom — pumped through the RØDECaster™ Pro — into your ears.Fearmongers in Melbourne's most contagious suburbs Yianni Agisiloau, and Isabella Valette join A Rational Fear captains Dan Ilic and Lewis Hobba who courageously recorded their end of the podcast in NSW. Bolsonaro's COVID19 diagnosis. Pauline Hanson's removal from Today Hang On A Sec: #QAussie Queensland conspiracy theorist travels to Melbourne to liberate the Flemington towers from the "corporate police"Special guest: Dr Vyom Sharma.Working on the frontlines of COVID19 in Melbourne, Vyom shares some of his hopes and frustrations with this current spike in cases in Melbourne.And Dan Ilic asks Mark Zuckerberg why posts from climate denialists are categorised as "opinion" but climate scientists are categorised as "political"BOOK a ticket to Yianni's ":https://www.trybooking.com/book/event?eid=621620&The Simpsons Taught Me Everything I Know" A Rational Fear is made possible in part from our Patreon subscribers and the Bertha Foundation.A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/Recorded at our homes over Zoom — pumped through the RØDECaster™ Pro — into your ears.Recorded August 2019.Recorded live, in front of a massive SOLD OUT crowd at Giant Dwarf ,some of Australia's best known journalists and a couple of Australia's least known comedians discuss the recent government crackdown on press freedom in Australia. (Waxed balls and All)Hear what happened to Ray Martin’s interview with a top CIA contact. How Kate McClymont sends a death threat to bikie gangs. Ben Fordham gets his house AFP raid-ready and hides his embarrassing things. Alice Workman tell us what Peter Dutton really thinks about the potato comparisons. Dan Ilic breaches the espionage act live on stage. Lewis Hobba tells us why Seachange is good for democracy, and Greta Lee Jackson from the Australian Federal Police shuts the show down in breach of telling bad facts about the government.One important takeaway from this episode is that despite the attacks on newsrooms from the Government, journalists are more determined than ever to hold the government to account than ever before — and Kate McClymont identifies as a witch.Thanks to: DJ Dylan Behan, Greta Lee Jackson, Alison Piorowski, Sandra Sully, Network Ten, Killian David, David Bloustien, James Colley, Kate Holdsworth, Marcel Bracks, FBi Radio, Giant Dwarf, the MEAA, the Walkleys, Sleeping Giant, and GetUp!00:00 Opening.01:02 Introductions.07:13 Press Freedom Discussion.19:53 Sandra sully’s approved news.21:20 Whistleblowers.25:30 Social media policy restrictions.27:59 Alice Workman vs Michaelia Cash.36:27 Ben Fordham auctions off his embarrassing shit.47:016 A Current Affair turn the cameras on the victims of press freedom.50:11 Kate McClymont and race fixing.58:50 ABC cuts having an effect already.1:00:01 Ray martin’s missing CIA interview .1:08:58 The afp shutdown the show.1:10:40 AFP #QandA.1:15:18 Lewis Hobba and why enjoying SeaChange is okay.A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/Recorded at our homes over Zoom — pumped through the RØDECaster™ Pro — into your ears. #ClimateWeekQLDHello Dan Ilic here —Thanks to the Queensland Government for inviting us to perform at Climate Week .The team of producers were incredible, and the production staff at the Brisbane Powerhouse were slick professional units.You may notice there is one word we’re avoiding to say in the show. That word begins with A and ends in I, has Dan in between. We were told about 20 minutes before the show, so some minor tweaks had to happen on the fly. I’m sure you’ll enjoy listening to that as we go.Bridie Connell and Wyatt Nixon-Lloyd do some topical music for us. Tom Ballard tells us that it’s all over and there’s no hope left. The Queensland Government put a bid in for the 2038 Nuclear Winter Games. MICF Pinder Prize winner Steph Tisdell give insects the tick of approval, and goes on the hunt for true love with an entomologist. Mel Buttle hopes that foodies will go extinct. Alan Jones has some thoughts on climate change. Professor Hilary Bambrick scares us all to death with what the real health ramifications are for humans on a warming planet. Lewis Hobba thinks he has solutions to the climate crisis, but ends up just blaming Queenslanders for it all.It is truly and excellent 90 minutes of climate change banter.00:00 — Pre Show: AFP Warning.01:25 — Start.02:15 — Introductions.05:33 — Bridie and Wyatt Introduction.16:25 — Fearsome Fears: Freedom Gas.21:15 — Fearsome Fears: Flygskam.25:00 — Fearsome Fears: The internet will be underwater.27:30 — Tom Ballard: We’re all f***ed.37:48 — Queensland’s Bid for 2038 Nuclear Winter Games.40:16 — Steph Tisdell: Care about insects.47:45 — Mel Buttle: Foodies must die.1:00:30— Alan Jones’ Gloating.1:03:35— Prof. Hilary Bambrick: Health and Climate1:19:23— Lewis Hobba: Don’t vote for the climate.1:28:50— Queenslanders Apologise to Australia.1:30:03— Bridie and Wyatt’s Climate Love Song.1:33:33— Credits.A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/Recorded at our homes over Zoom — pumped through the RØDECaster™ Pro — into your ears.We had planned a big Tasmania special feat. Anthony Morgan, but sadly Anthony's internet didn't hold up and we couldn't get a conversation going. But we were joined by Tassie comedian and actor Anna Kidd, and Jacqui Lambie media advisor Anna Bateman to talk about all things Tas. Also on the pod Yianni Agisilaou does a cracker set of stand up and Lewis and Dan keep the ball in the air.Thanks to Jacob Round on the mix, Rupert Degas for his ad voice, and Anthony Morgan for dressing up his video conference bunker despite his internet not quite holding out for a conversation.A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/Recorded at our homes over Zoom — pumped through the RØDECaster™ Pro — into your ears.(former deputy National Security Advisor to Obama, Pod Save The World) shares with Lewis and I his thoughts on around the world, how populations can the, and a great anecdote about how when seeking global consensus onBen Rhodes COVID19’s threat to democracystill protest during lockdown, climate crisisObama became frustrated with Tony Abbott Foreign policy politics can seem tricky to navigate and easy to dismiss as too hard, but Ben frames everything around a set of core values that brings clarity to foreign policy decisions.We’re lucky to have him thinking about the world — and we’re thrilled have him on A Rational Fear.THANKS TO:The Obama Foundation, Jacob Round and Ben Rhodes.00:00 - Introduction01:45 - Start Interview02:50 - Disinfectant 03:50 - Emergency powers eroding democracy around the world05:20 - How are people still managing to protest in HK?06:50 - Who does crisis better liberal democracies or authoritarian regimes?11:30 - Oversight to powers15:25 - Trump's reaction to the corona crisis26:30 - Hope for the USA31:00 - Distracted from the Climate Crisis33:45 - Obama's thoughts on Tony Abbott37:45 - Joining Cameo like Sean Spicer & Scaramucci40:13 - CreditsTRANSCRIPT BELOW BY A.I.Dan Ilic 0:31All right, a very special irrational fear event with Ben Rhodes, former deputy national security adviser to the Obama administration and co host of crooked media's pod save the world. Ben, thank you so much for joining us on A Rational Fear.Ben Rhodes 2:15Good to be here, Dan. What I'd rather beDan Ilic 2:18other than talking to people all around the world from podcast den, I assume you have a podcast den.Ben Rhodes 2:25I do. I'm I have to build like a pillow fort. to tape. I'm actually doing a different podcast now too. That requires better audio. They tell me so I've just surround myself with pillows and comforters but I'm not doing that for you, dad. I'm sorry.Dan Ilic 2:42That's okay. You know, I'd rather see your face.Ben Rhodes 2:45Yeah.Dan Ilic 2:47Ben, I know you're writing a book on authoritarianism right now. So kind of while the whole world is in enforced lockdown. I thought there's never been a better time to talk about the power and erosion of democratic norms. Lots of fun.Ben Rhodes 3:01Yeah, it's a great topic.Dan Ilic 3:03Now in this chat, I think we've covered quite a bit of territory in the half an hour we've got with you the risk that COVID-19 poses to democracy around the world how people in robust liberal democracies can not only protect their institutions, but also support those around the world who live under more authoritarian regimes, and how the USA can overcome its federal leadership vacuum. So these are big, big topics, big topics, you know, you're you're gonna big brain and that's why that's why you're here. That's why you do what you do.Ben Rhodes 3:30I'll try, I'll see. We'll see what your listeners think. Now, theDan Ilic 3:35first question is when it comes to choosing a disinfectant to inject. What do you prefer, bleach or dental?Ben Rhodes 3:44Well, you know, the United States has tried for a very long time to best we can set a good example for the rest of the world and, and now I think we, you know, tried a new territory with this innovative treatment of inhaling deadly disinfectants. You know, I'm a Lysol wipes person myself. wipes are harder because you have to choose. But a less face to say for all your listeners don't take this as seriously as some of Donald Trump's followers tonight,Dan Ilic 4:13you're trying to believe what you're trying to say is you're being sarcastic.Ben Rhodes 4:16Yes, exactly, exactly. As he now tells us he was.Dan Ilic 4:22Well, you know, we've seen countries around the world like Poland and Hungary effectively kind of dismantle democratic processes under the guise of Coronavirus and emergency powers. Do you think that this is starting a trend for other states who are eyeing off, you know, all burned and polled?Ben Rhodes 4:38Yeah, I mean, you mentioned this book I'm working on part of the point of that book is that all these people, for the last decade or more have been learning from one another? Viktor Orban Donald Trump, Modi in India, bolson arrow in Brazil, Xi Jinping in China, Putin, of course. So they already kind of learned from one another and it's not unusual that in a crisis, an authoritarian Might take take more power for themselves. And as usual, or bonds kind of been at the vanguard of this, the Hungarian Prime Minister for the last decade, and he was among the first to essentially grant himself dictatorial powers early in this crisis, and we're seeing some people follow suit in Poland. Modi's certainly acted in dictatorial ways recently to begin with, and that could be expanding now. So it's the Chinese, even in Hong Kong, in the last couple weeks have been cracking down arresting protesters. So I think, you know, unfortunately, we should anticipate in the next, you know, few weeks and months, a movement by some of these leaders to take and hold even more power than they already have.Dan Ilic 5:47With Hong Kong. It's certainly something we've been because it happens in Asia, which is kind of out words we kind of pay attention to Hong Kong quite a lot and the part two pro democracy protests there over the last few weeks. Shocking, sending ripples through Australian media anyway, very amazing, amazing photos and pictures through Australian media. So we're really paying attention to it. How is that kind of movement going now and Coronavirus? And how are people still managing to protest?Ben Rhodes 6:17Well, you know, they were continuing to protest physically for as long as they could I follow this closely. I went to Hong Kong in December, met with a lot of protesters. I've stayed in touch with some of them. But right now, frankly, it's hard. I think if you talk to them, one of the things that they are hoping will sustain this movement they built is one of the innovative things that they've done is there's an entire culture around this movement. So it's not just street protest, its songs, its means its artwork. It's a kind of virtual community. It's kind of endless telegram threads. So I think their hope is that the oxygen of this culture will sustain them. There's important legislative elections in Hong Kong later this year in the fall, that I know has been a focus of the movement for some time. And this will be a test, Dan but one thing I'd say to people when we start on the kind of pessimistic note of what these leaders are doing in some places, including in Hong Kong, you know, the reality too is there's going to be massive economic fallout from this and it's gonna blow back. So while the first phase of this Coronavirus, reality politically might be more power for the authoritarian authoritarians, I think the second phase when we get six months to a year out, maybe that pendulum swinging back hard against some of these folks who are in power and and that may happen in Hong Kong when people can get back out in the street, there may be a pent up nature to what we see happen. Hmm.Dan Ilic 7:47Who do you think is doing a better in terms of handling the crisis liberal democracies or authoritarian regimes? This is kind of like questions. It seems to me a kind of a mix like I particularly when you're looking at balsa narrow And Trump and these folks who have authoritarian tendencies just don't seem to think COVID is a real deal.Ben Rhodes 8:08Yeah, well, we've been, you know, the baseline for what not to do in the United States. But, you know, the funny thing is, when you look at it, it's really it doesn't split the on democratic and authoritarian lines. You know, people have been trying to make that kind of judgement. The reality is, it splits them with other government is competent or not. And, you know, South Korea and Germany are democratic countries, with long standing democratic norms, institutions, and they've handled this quite well as unsurprisingly. So a lot of the Scandinavian countries, not Sweden, but the rest of them. Whereas, you know, other democracies, United States, Brazil that you mentioned, I think the kingdom have not handled it particularly well. And similarly with authoritarian countries, you know, China, really mishandled it out of the gate. In part because of their authoritarian nature, which led to people not reporting the truth up the chain led the people at the top to not want to come clean and precious time was missed at the beginning, then you saw a very, you know, I think effective response once they got their act together. So, you know, it's it's mixed in. And I think what that tells you is it's not in this type of crisis. It's not necessarily always can be determined by the system that you need. If you're a democracy, you need to elect competent people, as well as having a democracy.Dan Ilic 9:34But let's not let's not beat around the bush, there are some very competent or authoritarian regimes out there.Ben Rhodes 9:39Yeah, yeah. I mean, well, there's, you know, Singapore, right is always kind of the gold standard for competent, at least semi authoritarian regimes. And yeah, they've been quite effective, although they've had some challenges recently. Yeah. So I mean, I think, look, the problems in the United States you know, have to do with The fact that we have a one major political party that's gone kind of nuts over the course last decade, and Donald Trump is the reaction to that really was the result of the end result of that. And that's, you know, that's that's what explains our response.Dan Ilic 10:15And when you were in the driver's seat under Obama, how tempting is it to, you know, throw out a few rights in order to get your policies enacted? when you're when you're in that? Yeah,Ben Rhodes 10:24I mean, it's a good question. Um, you know, what was interesting about that, Dan, is that we inherited a lot of policies that in you know, I think went pretty far in terms of trading away certain rights for counterterrorism purposes. Patriot Act service, mass surveillance, in particular, the stuff that came out in the Snowden revelations, this kind of massive post 911 infrastructure, and we ended up spending a lot of time kind of trying to figure out how much of that to keep versus how much of that to try to scale back in terms of government power. You know, what's frustrating you we had a pandemic, or we had an outbreak of Ebola that didn't become a pandemic. And you know, there wasn't really any. The key to that response, which was quite well, you know, didn't really have to do with taking away people's rights at all. I think in this one, the most interesting questions have to do with what happens when societies kind of resume economic activity, and you start using technology like South Korea and Taiwan have been using technology to track who's sick and who's not, and maybe even to take people's temperature, that kind of thing. And, you know, that that makes a lot of sense in terms of tracking and a disease. You know, whether you want the government to know where you are at all times and what your help is, is a different thing. So my hope is, is that those kinds of powers are taken by governments if they're temporary, that they're it's, it's made clear at the outset that this is a temporary measure put in place just for this emergency.Dan Ilic 12:09Yeah. When I first emailed you about doing this, we were looking at, kind of on we're looking at kind of power structure in Australia, which wouldn't have any checks and balances for this this crisis. So I was like, gonna get on the phone to Ben see what Yeah, but since then, is a senate oversight committee to our national Corona response, which is, which is good, which is kind of standard in this country.Ben Rhodes 12:34Yeah, yeah. No, I mean that but I think that's the key thing is just to make sure somebody's looking over somebody's shoulder at all times.Dan Ilic 12:42It's kind of interesting, like Parliament for Australia anyways, kind of is out of school until August 1. In the meantime, this is National COVID-19 commission that's been formed to manage a crisis made up of a board whose experience is pretty much based around minerals, mining energy. One guy who is like the chair of the csro, but I wouldn't call him a doctor because he's not a doctor. And so what does that say about Australia reservation that their, that their national kind of board that's kind of responding to this while parliament is not in session?Ben Rhodes 13:18Well, you know, it's Yeah, you know, what's funny about that is is you learn kind of who is the actual power structure in your country when the bottom falls out, in a way, you know? So what that tells me is like, those are the people who actually have the power in Australia, in the same way that the United States, frankly, when we've had crises, bankers, you know, banks, major corporations are often the people who seem to suddenly have a lot of power to determine what happens, you know, we just, you know, a few weeks ago passes $2 trillion bill to essentially try to bail out, you know, the economy. And first of all, you wonder, where do we get this $2 trillion from But then yeah, I mean, I think the the impulse of the republican party as with the, the financial crisis in 2008, when when george bush was in office, the first impulse was to bail out these big corporations and to bail out banks. And, you know, kind of the Democrats in the House had to be like, Hey, what about actual small businesses are and workers who've been laid off? But yeah, I think Yeah, so for Australia, its its energy, interest mining interest, right? who've kind of been the power behind the strings is certainly in the Conservative Party. Just like in the in the United States, we find the heads of major corporations and banks are the people who end up seeming to be making these key decisions when we hit these crises. ThenLewis Hobba 14:44when we sort of Australia is looking at America's handling of this at the moment it like, I mean, doesn't it looks like a bit of a mess. When America is America bother looking at Australia like we spend so much time looking at you. Do you look at does anyone even notice what we're doing? Is that something that's on anyone's mind?Ben Rhodes 15:01I mean, you know, here Yeah, I mean, it basically, I think the United States looks at, you know, what we tend to do is look at a mix of different countries who seem to represent different regions, right. You know, so you always have a few European countries you're looking at, then you always have kind of South Korea and Japan and East Asia and then you do you look at Australia, and then around Indonesia and India. I don't suggest there's like a lot of time spent. It's usually just like, what are the metrics of how many tests people have done and how many cases there are and is somebody doing something in particular that seems to be working or not, you know, and in that case, I thinkDan Ilic 15:37Tom Hanks getting Coronavirus um, Hanks getting Coronavirus on the Gold Coast was a really high point for the world looking at Australia's COVID responseLewis Hobba 15:46Yeah, if we kill Hanks will never forgive us. And yeah,Dan Ilic 15:50I act his attitude to Vegemite was really set the set the scales.Ben Rhodes 15:54I think we're all wondering just what what the hell was Tom Hanks doing in Australia in the first place? Like we had no idea. You know, I mean, there's America's treasure right? It's great for the Elvis movie. Well, yeah, maybe that was the point. But the thing is, is that like Australia I think has not you know, distinguished itself for either having a particularly exceptional response or particularly bad response and so therefore, it hasn't gotten the same attention as a bunch of other countries in the US we excel in the middle that's Australia you excel you're right in the middle which by the way, I would trade to be in the middle ofthe middle looks pretty good from the bottom.Dan Ilic 16:30Well, Ben, let you know. Your Lewis did say the US does look like a bit of a mess. So my question is, how much of this is Obama's fault?Ben Rhodes 16:39Well, if you listen to Trump, all of it would be I you know, this has been the most frustrating time for me as you can imagine, but I mean, mainly because we got this massive scare in 2014 with a bola and that ended up okay. You know, we had to mobilise the US military sent to West Africa. Were to send 10s of thousands of health care workers and lots of supplies there. But we also learned a lot from that. So we tried to having been scared. Okay, what does the government need? We need an office in the White House to coordinate this we, we created an actual playbook. What do you do if there's a pandemic, we develop these tools so you can develop and produce healthcare equipment, if you needed to an emergency, we had all these international protocols. And what's been so frustrating is all that stuff was kind of wrapped in a bow and handed off to Trump. They clearly just scrapped, totally ignored. And so they went in, you know, if they'd literally just opened a drawer and found, you know, the playbook that we left for the pandemic and some of the things in that playbook, they would have been producing testing, and ventilators and masks and other things throughout February instead of falling so far behind but but because they have such a disdain for anything Obama did and for government itself, they just completely ignored that right and that was alsoDan Ilic 17:58there isn't. There's so many vacant places in public service in America that is still yet to be kind of filled or people aren't wanting to take charge.Lewis Hobba 18:08Yeah, administrator.Ben Rhodes 18:09Yeah, to me, it's kind of the price of chaos, you know, like so we were when when we were in the transition, right, the period of time after the election, Obama's own office, we actually did an exercise a cabinet level. So the senior most people in the government exercise on what happens if there's a new kind of flu pandemic. So basically, exactly the scenario, so that each of the people in these key positions would be able to inhabit the experience of making those initial decisions. And the reality is, even if they were paying attention, which at the time, it didn't seem like they really were. Almost none of those people are there, right? Because Trump goes through these people like one one a year. So the chaos of that kind of turnover, and the kind of disdain for government which means that lots of these positions go unfilled. And the idea that we don't really listen to experts to begin with, you know, we're paying the price for that. Now, it's kind of the, if you have a president who, who doesn't like his predecessor, who doesn't like science, who doesn't like government experts and doesn't feel positions, a pandemic is basically the worst possible thing that can happen. Because that's when you need government. That's when you need experts. That's when you need to learn from your predecessors. And so this is of all the things that could hit Trump, this is probably the worst possible one that he was designed for, beyond his expertise and disinfected. AndLewis Hobba 19:37you were talking before about the different things that might happen as a response to this particularly in authoritarian regimes. But in America, like there is such a belief in in some parts of America about small government getting rid of government, for the government, like it's a government position. Do you think now that we're looking at this, wishing that there was a functional government in governments around the world We all sort of have this desire now for just a functioning bureaucrat. The government. Yeah. Just to any government that works. Do you think that's gonna happen in America at all? I think there'll be a wish for that to come back.Ben Rhodes 20:11I mean, certainly, among part of America, I mean, there's been this kind of, gosh, 30 year war against government from the, from the Republican Party of the right wing of the Republican Party, you know, dating all the way back to Ronald Reagan. Really, small government. You know, one of America's most famous conservative activists famously said he wanted to make government small enough that you could drown it in the bathtub. Not a nice image, of course, but and now I really do you know, I feel like we're seeing kind of the price of that because, you know, what, what, what do you mean when you're saying you're cutting but government? Well, you're cutting budgets for things like the centres for disease control, you're cutting funding for the National Institute of Health. You're cutting funding for the things that you need as a backstop, and effective crisis, I think in the our election, you know, is going to kind of play out on the terms you've described. And since that, look, Joe Biden is not the most charismatic, young new face. But what he is, is someone who offers the stability of like, well, this guy knows what government does, and he'll hire the smart people. And, you know, there's a theory of elections in the US that we tend to elect the opposite of the person who went before you know, so you had Bill Clinton fall by George W. Bush fell by Barack Obama fall by Donald Trump so that that does seem to be like people turn to something different. That's Biden. That's a wildly even like, that's a crazy oscillating pendulum that's just think about it, but at some point, I'm getting whiplash and thinking about it and but I think by the Congress by an offer is therefore is not youth in, you know, inspiration. But it is like, okay, just someone who will, frankly the idea of government, just being You know, boring is appealing now, you know, we, let's just get people in there who know what they're doing. We don't think about it every day and we don't live a psychodrama on Twitter every day. We have a president who just hires the right people, makes the key decisions, you know, tries to lower the temperature of the power politics and get things done. And there's a hunger for that.Dan Ilic 22:23And then finally, the pendulum can swing again and the republicans will have in 2024 Kanye West, right?Ben Rhodes 22:28Yeah.Lewis Hobba 22:30Yeah, you did Australia. We always talked about like the pod test for our latest like it's, we always like someone want to have a beer at the pub with. And that's pretty much what we did in the last election. And now I think a lot of people are just going I don't need a person to have a beer with not only am I not allowed to go to the pub to have a beer. I just want a nerd who's read the books.Ben Rhodes 22:49Yeah, but and I could never figure that out because I certainly didn't want to have a beer with Tony Abbott Gus.Dan Ilic 22:57I think no one in his party. What are they doing?Ben Rhodes 23:00Yeah, I just gonna just gonna put that out there.Yeah, no, I we have to get back on the beer thing here too, you know, not that I predict when I have a beer with Donald Trump but uh, you know, sometimes that's not the thing you're looking for in your prime minister,Dan Ilic 23:15when I was when I was looking for a photo today, they're kind of put on the web post that we're talking with you I found all these great ones of you behind the behind the White House podium. And I thought well, how Trump has done so much damage to brand USA. And, and that visual identity does it concern you that you have so many photos of you on the White House briefing room podium? Well, yeah, yeah, I feel bad brand.Ben Rhodes 23:44I gotta tell you, it's so funny to, to think back the first time I had to give a briefing in the White House, that kind of iconic White House podium. I was really nervous. And actually, I'd later figured out that I were different colours. socks that day.Thankfully escaped noticeLewis Hobba 24:04problem in contrast to the substitute?Ben Rhodes 24:08Yeah, that's about as dramatic as it got. But I mean, it's true for the entire pregnancy. Like, there was such a, you know, I grew up I watched the West Wing, like, these places were kind of, you know, we don't have loyalty here. I'm like, you guys. So, the, the, the White House, the presidency is kind of like this mixture of the seat of government, but also like the, you know, the, the seat of the state. And one of the most, you know, depressing things has been watching all of those settings can be debased and degraded, you know, just by Trump, but but but these, you know, kind of mix of grifters and competence and ideologues around him. And so yeah, it is kind of jarring. I spent so much time in this kind of small spaces and to see, you know, Trump up there talking about, you know, sunlight, curing diseases and and, you know, taking disinfectant and the rest of it, it does feel like it kind of bases the whole institution. And I'm curious if Trump is defeated, or if he ever is no longer present, which I presume will happen at some point. Whether that kind of reverts back and people once again, think about the American presidency that way and think about those settings that way, or whether he's kind of permanently done some damage.Lewis Hobba 25:22It's you think, sorry, I was gonna say, is there any part of you that watches what the White House does now and thinks, God, I didn't realise you could get away with that. And that's something that you would have you had gone Oh, we should have just done that. We didn't realise we could be ourselves.Ben Rhodes 25:38Yes. Yeah. There's two levels to that. I mean, one is Yeah, like I used to, you know, I was in charge of our communications on foreign policy now security. So that meant, you know, I was kind of the final person to look at any statement they went out or obviously a presidential speech, and you would act on the nerves you would feel about what you know, getting if there was a typo in there, you know, I mean,Dan Ilic 26:00like, Man, I've read your book and you you actually you, you manage to Trent translate your anxiety or communicate about rocking every little bit of word. I was so nervous reading your book about so you when you're writing speeches and communications with fat Ben really fucking cares shit.Ben Rhodes 26:21Well you know, contrast is likeDan Ilic 26:22fucking Trump's get up there riffing. It's like, yeah,Ben Rhodes 26:25yeah, no, that's right. And so, you know, and look, I mean, I'm glad that we cared and I thinkDan Ilic 26:32the world class is really glad that you checked.Ben Rhodes 26:34One, I think I think people cared about what Obama said, because they figured that he was very careful about what he said. But it is amazing to look back and think about the, the precise care we took about words, and that's obviously totally gone. But there is something I will say that like, you know, I'm not, I'm not crediting Trump with this. But but the you know, sometimes I Do you think you, you impose kind of limits on what you mean, in the second Obama term? For instance, we started to kind of let it rip a little bit more, you know, the opening to Cuba. Yeah. You know, the, obviously the Iran nuclear agreement, you know, Paris accord, things that were seen as politically very risky. We just did them, you know, and you started to realise, you know, on Cuba friends, which, which I worked on, the only reason you'd be like, Well, why do we have this crazy Cuba policy? And people just say, well, you don't you don't touch that, you know, that's politically, you know, toxic, you know, and it's like, well, why not? You know, so there is there is something healthy about being willing to break from convention. But, but to this extreme, taking it to this extreme is not healthy.Dan Ilic 27:49Well, let me ask you this. How, how do you have hope at this point for America and for overcoming this federal leadership vacuum like heading into disarray? And SaisonBen Rhodes 28:02I mean, I think thatit's hard not to be pretty dark about where we are right now.I, I did think look, you know, obviously, this is the worst possible way for this to be playing out in terms of the loss of life and the economic damage. And what's happening is, you know, we're seeing the result of electing someone who just shouldn't be president who just doesn't have any skills required to do that, who kind of represents some of the worst impulses of America in terms of hubris and narcissism and belligerence? I think my only hope is, you know, as we were talking about earlier, that this is kind of gonna wake enough people up to the fact that we got to just get our stuff together. You know, I mean, America's Got a not only do we have to elect someone different in this election, but I mean, we Got to cut it out here, you know, with the indulgence of this kind of right wing populism that is infected us, like a lot of other places, with the disdain for government and expertise. You know, we are the richest country in the world with the most resources in the world. And we have basically the worst response to this pandemic of anybody in the world, if you just look at the cases, and the deaths and the spread of this thing, certainly among the advanced economies. And so my hope in a way is that, as with the whole Trump presidency, that this is waking people up and that this will mobilise people, and that people understand that this government matters that the national cohesion matters. And that, frankly, we, if you indulge conspiracy theory and kind of toxic kind of right wing media, you end up with a guy standing at a podium talking about disinfectants, you know,Dan Ilic 29:53is it any kind of sense from people who worked on the Affordable Care Act that they've got a sweet level of shouting froideur right now?Ben Rhodes 30:00Yeah, I mean, well, yeah, that that's the thing actually that, you know, the weird thing about the United States is a lot of the debates you know, are moving from my my, obviously political perspective, are moving even further to the left, even while Donald Trump is in office. So the Affordable Care Act that was seen as as kind of radical takeover of the healthcare system by government 10 years ago, is now seen as this pretty centre centrist middle of the road plan. And and, and I think that will mean that, you know, if Joe Biden's elected This is this will grow into even more of a moral more of a generous healthcare system than we had before. So I yeah, I think I think a lot of things Obama was trying to do, where he got some of it done, not all of it done, as difficult as the Trump years hard to see him try to take, you know, like an axe to it. I actually am somewhat optimistic that 1015 years from now we'll look back and realise that okay, all that stuff. Obama started ended up getting done. It just had this kind of major detour under Trump.Lewis Hobba 31:04And is there any discussion at all about what might happen with the elections in the states if people are still in lockdown? And like we've been talking about people becoming authoritarian regimes? Is there any chance he delays the election or puts it off?Ben Rhodes 31:21No, he can't really do it. Because under our system, the state'sadminister elections in Congress, I think Congress would have to support him and putting off the election, because it's also mandated in federal law that had happened on that particular day. So I think the debate the United States is turning to male voting, whether people are going to be able to vote by mail in the election. Trump has resisted that because like republicans always resist things that allow people to vote in the United States. It's actually peculiar to me that they are because, frankly, in hopefully they're not listening to this podcast, but the the secret is that older people tend to vote for republicans and voting by mail might be helpful to them. My view is that everybody in this country should have the option to vote by mail. I don't care whether that means they're more likely to vote Democrat or Republican. And I do think you'll see. I think that's where this will end up. I think, I think, you know, the vast majority of states will have, if not universal vote by mail certainly make it much easier for people to request mail in ballots and, and we may have an election where there's not nearly as much in person voting, but a lot more voting in the mail.Dan Ilic 32:41And while we wrap up here, I just kind of want to have a quick chat about climate change at sea. It feels like this crisis is just distracting us all from the biggest crisis possible. Particularly for Australians, like over Christmas, we had these incredible bushfires that ripped through large swathes of the country, even when We met Ben back in KL flying out to KL looking out the window, seeing for four hours, just smoke in over the continent was just incredible. And at that point in time, I think Australians were more conscious of the climate crisis than ever before. What our governments missing at this point in time to be able to pivot towards a climate crisis front heading heading out of this crisis to this current COVID crisis, do you think?Ben Rhodes 33:32Well, I'll tell you what worries me. What worries me is that we're going to go into this kind of deep recession everywhere. And what is going to be tempting for a lot of countries, particularly the large developing countries, like China, and India, is when they're trying to jumpstart the economy again, saying, well, let's, let's put aside these plans to shift to renewable energies because it's a lot cheaper to just You know, fire up the coal fired power plants and get energy moving that way, you know. And so you could see kind of short term economic stimulus measures that turned back to coal and dirty forms of energy in ways that are damaging, obviously to even the minimal ambition of what was in the Paris accords. You because what's necessary, I mean, that what we should learn from this pandemic, right? Is what was so frustrating this country is here is a this pandemic is this disease is spreading. The scientists are telling us this is going to happen. If you'd listened to the scientist, you would have done certain things right away. And we didn't do them. And so therefore, a lot of people are getting killed. And it really is a miniature analogy for climate change, like the scientists are telling us this is going to happen. We can even see it starting to happen in Australia, and what you need to do, you really need to wholesale change your entire makeups of your economies. You know, like, we can't You know, there's no other way to do this guys, you know, there's no, there's no third option here between transitioning from fossil fuels to different forms of energy. And you can do that in stages. And you can do that in ways to cushion the blow for certain industries. But that's what's really going to be required here. And, and I think, I hope well, we've just lived through kind of once again tells us that like, ignoring scientists are telling you something bad is gonna happen is ultimately gonna cost you a lot more in the long run than then taking action right away. And this is the debate, you know, that we had. Well, first, we had partners and Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard. But these are the debates we had certainly with with with Abbott,when when Obama wasDan Ilic 35:46so tell me, let's go deep on that for a second. With Abbott, what kind of conversations were you having with him and his partners?Ben Rhodes 35:55Well, what was so frustrating with that, and look, I mean, it's no secret Obama You know, Tony Abbott was far from his favourite leader to begin with.Lewis Hobba 36:03Ours either, for the record.Ben Rhodes 36:05Yeah. And, you know,what was frustrating with Abbott? You know, is he was kind of very sure of himself without really knowing what he's talking about. And no, I remember Obama rarely and he actually got on well was the centre right politicians and you know, Uncle Merkel and David Cameron. So it's not like he couldn't work with someone, you know, who is on the right side, you know, the right end of the spectrum, not the right side. And, but I'll tell you the anecdote that really drove this home to me is that, you know, we were, you know, we came to Australia, I believe, yes, right after we reached the bilateral agreement with China, in 2014. That became kind of the basis of Paris accord. And we were trying to get Australia just do some minimal stuff, you know, you know, ambitious, or even not that ambitious, just a target of emissions. We're done. Or some funding for developing countries to develop, you know, clean energy. And Abbott was just kind of tone deaf on this thing. And, and Obama remember gave a speech before the G 20. in Brisbane, where, you know, we had like a paragraph about climate change written into the speech, and Obama got to that paragraph. And he just went way off the text, and was just basically blasting the Abbott government in ways that he almost never did on foreign soil and pointing out the Great Barrier Reef disappearing. And that an Abbott was upset. You know, this was like, you know, he was supposed to be this big stage for him hosting the G 20. But it's like, Well, look, if you want to host the G 20. Like you got to step up and be an international leader. And we've got everybody else kind of rallying around this effort to get to an ambitious climate agreement the next year in Paris, and Abbott was really one of the last holdouts dragging his feet you know, and no coincidence. You know who his key political supporters are? We mentioned people in the mining and energy industries. no coincidence. Rupert Murdoch media in Australia, also very friendly to those industries and, and so it wasn't hard to put that together. Why that guy was dragging his feet.Dan Ilic 38:17It might surprise you. I don't know if you know this, but probably the thing that sealed the deal for Australians and Abbott was when he was Prime Minister and he wants to he wanted to instigate. So you know, we talked about all the climate policies or the retrograde kind of policies are around that kind of stuff. But the thing that really turned Australians against Abbott was when he wanted to institute knights and dames a new award system where he would create an Australian system of knighting people and gaming people, and the first knighthood he gave was to Prince Philip.Ben Rhodes 38:49Oh, well,I didn't I did not know that. I will tell you that whenever we were really annoyed with Tony Abbott. We would watch the video of that speech by Julia Gillard.Yeah, well, that speech got watched a lot.Let me put it that way.Lewis Hobba 39:07You know when, when when all the video. So when all those handwashing videos were coming out at the start and they were like, you need to wash your hands for at least 20 seconds and people were giving me like songs like wash it for the length of happy birthday. There are a lot of people who are going you just need to wash your hands for the length of Julia Gillard misogyny speech. Nice.Dan Ilic 39:27Yeah, well, seven minutes. Exactly. Well, Ben, thanks for joining us on irrational fear. It's a real privilege to have you.Ben Rhodes 39:37Yeah. Good talking you guys.Dan Ilic 39:38And I've got a question. Have you ever thought about joining cameo because some of your predecessors like Sean Spicer and Anthony Scaramucci are both on there?Ben Rhodes 39:47Yeah, I you know, what a surprise that there's a pipeline from the Trump administration to reality tell.Dan Ilic 39:56Let's have a list. Let's have a listen to a lot of them. Here's Sean Spicer.Sean Spicer 40:00Guys, it's Sean Spicer this month on cameo I'm donating all the proceeds to the yellow ribbon fund. It's an organisation that supports our nation's caregivers to the our wounded service members. So think about that video. Happy birthday, St. Patrick's Day. Daylight Savings Time. do well on the primaries, if you're a presidential candidate, Lent, that's always a good one. You name it. There's so many good reasons to send a shout out video to the person that you care about. Maybe a complete stranger. So when you want to ask them in a date doesn't matter. It's for a great cause. Think about it. Consider Thanks a lot.Dan Ilic 40:34I would love a daylight savings dog from bed.Lewis Hobba 40:37Yeah. Oh, yeah. Eating as well. Getting chillin spice awesome on a date for you. That's a no, that's a hard No.Ben Rhodes 40:44Yeah, no, that's, uh, you know, there's Trump used to say this. When he was running, we're not sending our best. And I think I think that's been manifest in the, in the appointments he's made.Dan Ilic 40:57Yeah, how much do you think Sean Spicer costs Ben? How much to pay for 32nd message from Sean Spicer?Ben Rhodes 41:05You know, I would pay someone to not send me.Lewis Hobba 41:10Haven't you paid enough?Dan Ilic 41:12charging 160 pounds. So 300 Australian dollars for a message, Scaramucci however, is a quite a bit less. He's only 40 pounds, but I guess he was in his office for about three hours. SoBen Rhodes 41:26yeah, it's like 11 day. No, no, nobody. I mean, all these guys are kind of grifters, right. That guy's somehow cashed in on 11 days in the jobAnthony Scaramucci 41:34Hey it's the mooch I'm super excited to be on cameo. So you know what? I'll talk about anything as you guys know. So look me up. Dial me in and tell me what you want me to say to you. I'm looking forward to it.Lewis Hobba 41:50Oh, wow. It's just the people who are too stupid to write a book.Ben Rhodes 41:53Yeah, yeah. put that one in the time capsule.Dan Ilic 41:56Ben, thank you so much for joining us in irrational fear. Hopefully we can catch up with you again and Six months time so we can chat again.Ben Rhodes 42:03Yeah, hopefully we'll have different President.Dan Ilic 42:07Thank you so much thicker. Say bye byeTranscribed by https://otter.aiA Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFearSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. If Patreon isn't your thing, and Apple Subscriptions are too Appley — chip in with A-Cast here: https://plus.acast.com/s/a-rational-fear-1. 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