As a lover of questions, I get asked a lot of things on all sorts of topics. One that comes up often is this idea about machine learning, AI, big data, data analytics, and how it combines with the behavioral sciences. Is there an overlap or are they competing? How can they work together?  Around the same time as I was prepping to be part of a debate at the Insights Association’s CONVERGE conference on a similar topic, I had my conversation and interview with Manuj Aggarwal. He went from making $2/day to the boardrooms of Fortune 500 companies as a business mentor. He now has four patents, two published books, and more than 180K students across the globe. He has worked with multiple businesses including Microsoft, Pearson, IBM, and many others. He even developed an AI-based system to help students avoid dropping out of degree programs that were praised and mentioned by Barack Obama and Bill Gates. He is the host of the Bootstrapping Your Dreams podcast, where I was honored to be a guest recently and I am delighted to have him with me here on the show to talk about the value of AI and how it can overlap with behavioral science. Listen in as we discuss all about combining AI with behavioral science. You don’t want to miss the many great insights!  Show Notes: [00:08] I'm delighted to introduce you to Manuj Aggarwal to discuss the opportunity of combining AI with behavioral science. [01:07] In December 2021 I (Melina) had the honor of being part of a debate put on at the Insights Association's CONVERGE conference where my team was arguing that "When it comes to capturing consumer insights, AI is never going to work." [03:59] Manuj shares about himself and the work that he does. [06:42] We are all experts in something and we are always trying to improve ourselves.  [07:17] Technology moves at a very rapid pace.  [10:18] Blockchain can decentralize and negotiate that trust between us as a technology; we don’t need the bank or any third party. Instead, we can put our promise on a blockchain, and when that promise is fulfilled the technology is going to complete that transaction.  [11:35] Manuj shares two of his favorite projects. The first project was a mining project they did with UPS. [13:27] In the second project they applied behavioral science and AI with universities to keep students from dropping out of their degree programs after the first year. The system they created was talked about and supported by Barack Obama and Bill Gates. (Awesome!) [15:47] It is about understanding what people are thinking and what the reference point is that they have in their mind to get that concept.  [16:20] We need to find out the objective and work backward.  [18:38] Monitoring the data and enhancing the models in real-time lets things get even more accurate.  [20:10] Instead of focusing on the problem you think exists, they start by asking, “What are the results you are looking for?’ [21:15] Figure out what the result is that you are looking for and then work backward on the root cause.  [23:50] There are so many common problems that people are having. Scaling happens gradually.  [25:46] There has never been a greater time than this to create a globally scalable company or solution.     [26:34] At the fundamental level when we break open AI it is actually a network of networks.  [28:33] You have to clean the data and you have to continuously do many experiments to fine-tune your data.  [30:09] You don’t have to become an AI expert to apply it.  [32:12] As a business owner or individual, you need to look for repeated patterns in real life and that is where AI can be really helpful to optimize a business.  [33:03] Not sure where to start? Look at some repeated patterns where something happens consecutively three times.  [35:41] 95% of our decisions are made by our subconscious mind.  [36:44] Mediation allows you to connect with other human beings at a much more meaningful level.  [38:08] Mediation is really about unplugging and doing something that you would do any day of the week for the sake of having fun.  [41:34] The script needs to be flipped around. First, we need to feel fulfilled and happy and clear off all these negative emotions which then leads to amazing opportunities. (Melina calls this “calming the elephant” often) [43:46] It is all about having conversations, building connections, and relationships.  [45:08] Nobody cares how much you know until they know how much you care.  [46:17] Melina shares her closing thoughts.  [49:05] If you enjoy the experience I’ve provided here for you, will you share about it? That could mean leaving a rating/review or sharing the episode with a friend (or 10!) Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: The Voltage Effect, by John List The Speed of Trust, by Stephen M.R. Covey Subtract, by Leidy Klotz Nudge, by Richard Thaler & Cass Sunstein A More Beautiful Question, by Warren Berger     Connect with Manuj:  Manuj’s Website Manuj on Twitter Manuj on LinkedIn Top Recommended Next Episode: The Voltage Effect with John List (episode 190) Already Heard That One? Try These:  The Network Effect (episode 106) Herding (episode 19) Familiarity Bias (episode 149) The Speed and Economics of Trust, an Interview with Stephen M.R. Covey (episode 148) Priming (episode 18) The Most Important Step in Applying Behavioral Economics: Understanding the Problem  (episode 126) Availability Bias (episode 15) Combining Artificial Intelligence and Behavioral Economics, with Sam Albert of Behaviorally (episode 166) When Machine Learning Meets Neuroscience, with Ingrid Nieuwenhuis of Alpha.One (episode 170) The Brainy Benefits of Gratitude (episode 76) How To Set Up Your Own Experiments (episode 63) Other Important Links:  Brainy Bites - Melina’s new LinkedIn Newsletter  Bootstrapping Your Dreams Show Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Were you a fan of The DaVinci Code? I loved that book, and quickly read everything by Dan Brown, which led to a fascination with the world of signs and symbols. I never really thought about how that aligns with my love of brain associations and behavioral economics, but they are very much rooted in the same fascinating topic.  When I was introduced to Rachel Lawes, by recent guest Elina Halonen, and I got to check out her first book Using Semiotics in Marketing and then an early read of this new book Using Semiotics in Retail, I was hooked and knew I had to share it with you all here on the show. Rachel is here to talk about the ins and outs of semiotics, and some fun stories about how they impact us all the time even when we might not realize it. I really love everything to do with semiotics and I think you will too.  One of my favorite insights from our conversation is, “Where there is choice, there is meaning.” Take a moment to ruminate on that, and let’s start the show. Show Notes: [00:47] Sometimes things come up that get me beyond fascinated and this is one of those episodes. It is because of the entire field of semiotics. Signs, symbols, and brain associations and how they impact businesses and buying decisions, it is truly fascinating.  [03:15] Rachel shares about herself and her background, and how she got into the field of semiotics. As a social psychologist, she is all about relationships and how people communicate with each other. [04:24] Semiotics starts out from the view that people in conversation with each other actively and cooperatively build and construct versions of reality.   [06:24] Semiotics is the study of how people interpret and make sense of signs.  [08:15] Rachel shares about the Game Stop stock market saga.   [10:47] Millions of people bought shares in Game Stop with the result that by January of 2021 it was one of the most high-ranking businesses in the world in terms of its shares.  [13:07] Game Stop is a great story about business and how people create meaning amongst themselves.  [16:01] People were very quick to use the tools of language to create a sense of group identity.  [19:01] It simply changed the rules of the game because the stock market was not designed that way.  [21:05] Rachel shares the story from her book about a jam business gone terribly wrong.  [23:41] She went to the jam business and took photos to find out what was keeping people away. [24:03] An essential question in semiotics is “Where have I seen this before?”  [25:13] She shares her findings when she visited the jam business. (Listen for a laugh!) [28:07] When you hear it all explained, it sounds classy, but when you get the comparison you can see the flaws.   [28:57] Trust your instincts. If there is something making you uncomfortable, you need to take that seriously until you find out what that is.  [30:12] “Where have I seen this before?” is one of Rachel’s favorite questions because it is one that her clients can start to use right away. It is also user-friendly for people just beginning semiotics.  [30:45] Where there is choice, there is meaning.  [31:19] She shares an example of Donald Trump’s hair.  [33:50] Rachel shares the hilarious videos of Jeff Bezos and Leonardo DiCaprio. [36:56] No matter how much money you have, money will never trump good looks. [40:32] Melina shares her closing thoughts.  [41:42] If you enjoy the experience I’ve provided here for you, will you share about it? That could mean leaving a rating/review or sharing the episode with a friend (or 10!) Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: Using Semiotics in Retail, by Rachel Lawes Using Semiotics in Marketing, by Rachel Lawes The Power of Us, by Dominic Packer & Jay Van Bavel Elements of Choice, by Eric Johnson The Experience Maker, by Dan Gingiss Connect with Rachel:  Lawes Consulting Rachel on Twitter Rachel on LinkedIn Top Recommended Next Episode: The Power of Metaphors for Brands with Olson Zaltman’s Malcolm and Hannibal Brooks (episode 181) Already Heard That One? Try These:  Priming (episode 18) The Most Important Step in Applying Behavioral Economics: Understanding the Problem (episode 126) Behavioral Blueprint, including COM-B and MOVE models with Elina Halonen (episode 188) A Guide for You to Create a Brainy Brand (episode 43) The Sense of Sight (episode 24) The Sense of Smell  (episode 25) The Sense of Hearing (episode 27) The Sense of Taste (episode 26) The Sense of Touch (episode 28) Herding (episode 19) The Power of Us with Dr. Dominic Packer (episode 178) Peak-End Rule (episode 97) Surprise and Delight (episode 60) How to Create Remarkable Experiences with Dan Gingiss (episode 185) Availability Bias (episode 15) Other Important Links:  Brainy Bites - Melina’s new LinkedIn Newsletter  Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am very excited to introduce you to Dr. John List, former chief economist at Uber, current chief economist at Lyft, professor at the University of Chicago, co-author of the wildly popular book, The Why Axis: Hidden Motives and the Undiscovered Economics of Everyday Life, who is here talking about his newest book, which just came out a couple of days ago, titled The Voltage Effect: How to Make Good Ideas Great and Great Ideas Scale. In this episode, we talk about ideas that can scale, possible hurdles you may face when scaling, and how to overcome those obstacles. John shares about his brand new book and the five vital signs to vett your own ideas as you are growing to determine if they will scale, and what to do for those that might not be ready to scale yet. Listen in to learn all about making those good ideas great and your great ideas scale! Show Notes: [00:42] Today I am very excited to introduce you to Dr. John List. Former Chief Economist at Uber, current Chief Economist at Lyft, and professor at the University of Chicago.  [02:38] John shares about himself and his background in behavioral economics.  [03:18] He quit on his dream to be a professional golfer to pursue his new dream in economics.  [05:29] After learning he would take the lessons in many cases from the classroom and use them in the real world.   [07:19] He hasn’t been to all the baseball stadiums yet, but nearly all of them.  [08:42] John shares the moment he started becoming more interested in scaling when he started a preschool and created his own curriculum. [10:59] Turning a mountain into a molehill.  [12:23] We very rarely say, “Are we doing something that is scalable?” and “What do we need to do differently in our original research if we find the program works to make it scale?”  [14:12] A constant thread in all of his walks of life is that you can only make big changes at scale.  [16:58] There are five important vital signs that any idea has to have a chance to scale.  [17:49] Just because your idea doesn’t check all five boxes doesn't mean you shouldn’t still go for it.   [20:01] Vital Sign 1: Make sure your idea actually has voltage before you try to scale it.  [21:14] Vital Sign 2: know your audience.  [24:41] His group developed a new product called Uber Apologies. Apologies really only work for new users.  [27:09] Vital Sign 3: Understand your situation. [29:05] Look at all of the constraints and flaws at scale and bring that back to the original research. With those constraints in place, do we have an idea that can still work? [30:18] Vital Sign 4: the spillover effect.  [32:06] His team rolled out tipping at Uber in the summer of 2017.  [34:35] Vital Sign 5: understand whether your idea has economies of scale or diseconomies of scale. Anything that has made it big has great economies of scale.  [37:28] The context or the properties of the situation are super important.  [38:02] Poke and prod and figure out where the weaknesses are. What are the nonnegotiables and if those aren’t available at scale then you have to change your idea and refine.  [40:53] We have a finite number of days we get to live on this earth and we only have so many ways to change it and make it better. Why not give yourself your best shot? [42:38] The second half of the book is using storytelling and standard ways to think economically to make better decisions in your life.  [45:09] Melina shares her closing thoughts.  [47:16] If you enjoy the experience I’ve provided here for you, will you share about it? That could mean leaving a rating/review or sharing the episode with a friend (or 10!) Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: The Voltage Effect, by John List The Why Axis, by John List & Uri Gneezy The Speed of Trust, by Stephen M. R. Covey Start at the End, by Matt Wallaert Subtract, by Leidy Klotz Connect with John:  John on Twitter John’s University of Chicago Faculty Page John on LinkedIn Top Recommended Next Episode: The Network Effect (episode 106) Already Heard That One? Try These:  Confirmation Bias (episode 102) Survivorship Bias (episode 110) The Most Important Step in Applying Behavioral Economics: Understanding the Problem (episode 126) Framing (episode 16) Anchoring (episode 11) 3 Steps to Better Decision Making, An Interview with Matthew Confer (episode 158) The Hawthorne Effect (episode 117) How To Set Up Your Own Experiments (episode 63) Using Ethnography to Understand Your Customers and Staff, an interview with Felicity Heathcote-Marcz (episode 137) Amazon: A Behavioral Economics Analysis Episode (episode 159) A Behavioral Economics Analysis of Costco (episode 47) Disney: A Behavioral Economics Analysis (episode 144) Peloton: A Behavioral Economics Analysis (episode 86) Starbucks: A Behavioral Economics Analysis (episode 73) Other Important Links:  Brainy Bites - Melina’s new LinkedIn Newsletter  Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am very excited to introduce you to Dr. Zoe Chance. She got her Ph.D. in marketing at Harvard and has taught at Yale's School of Management for over 10 years. She has done a TEDx on how to make behavior addictive, and has been featured on NBC News, CNN, The Wall Street Journal, New York Times, Forbes, Washington Post, Fast Company and so many more amazing places. She is here today to discuss her fantastically awesome new book, Influence Is Your Superpower, which officially comes out on February 1, 2022. I had the honor of reading this book early and let me tell you, you want this book. Hit pause, go place your order and come on back to listen to the conversation. Listen in as we talk about how you can actually have fun in your work and break the rules a little. We also talk about Zoe’s “No” challenge and her magic question. So much goodness… you don’t want to miss it!  Show Notes: [00:43] Today I am very excited to introduce you to Dr. Zoe Chance. She got her Ph.D. in marketing at Harvard and has taught at Yale's School of Management for over 10 years. [03:02] Zoe shares about herself and how she got into the world of behavioral science. She teaches at Yale’s School of Management and the book that she wrote is based on the course she teaches (the most popular in the business school!).  [05:57] Rejection doesn’t kill you. If you are not getting rejected it means you are playing small.  [07:27] “No” is so hard for people to say and it is so hard for people to hear.  [08:24] When we are comfortable saying no we are helping other people be more comfortable saying no.  [09:36] “‘No.’ is a complete sentence. ‘No, thank you.’ is a polite complete sentence.” [11:32] Why it is empowering to just say, “No, thank you.” [12:10] She has her students do a 24-hour “No” challenge where for 24 hours they say no to everything and everyone. The results are always surprising. [14:18] Nobody is going to dislike you for asking for something or rejecting a request if you do it in a warm way.  [16:49] If you have shorter chapters between your longer ones rather than a smaller number of long chapters, the book feels easier to read so you get more momentum going through.  [17:37] We're setting people’s expectations and influencing their experiences by the names and frames that we give.  [19:55] In her book, Zoe wanted her readers to know that they don’t have to do things the way everyone else is doing them and you can question all the norms and rules and do the thing that feels good and is fun to you.  [20:26] Zoe shares about her visit to the Harry Potter Studios outside of London and the impact it had on her. Melina chimes in with her experience as well! [23:06] If you ever have a chance to do the London Harry Potter Studio tour Zoe and Melina both highly recommend it.  [24:17] Zoe shares about the psychological illusionist Derren Brown.  [26:28] In The Invisible Gorilla, you are focusing on one thing which is asking your brain to ignore everything else.  [27:27] Magicians are masters at directing attention and framing what we pay attention to.  [29:54] The Apocalypse, is Derren (and Zoe’s) favorite show of his. He persuades the friends and family of a selfish loser to have him believe the end of the world is happening and there is a zombie apocalypse. He steps up as a hero.  [31:31] People want to say yes to you.  [33:45] The magic question is “What would it take?” [34:36] When the other person tells you what it would take, they’re implicitly committing to supporting that outcome if you follow the road map.  [36:32] Zoe’s book, Influence Is Your Superpower is a personal journey of transformation to becoming someone that people want to say yes to.  [38:22] Melina shares her closing thoughts.  [39:03] When you are having fun people can sense it and it makes them more likely to be attracted to what you’re doing. [40:04] I challenge you to take Zoe’s “No” Challenge – say no to everything for the next 24 hours (after you buy her book of course-ha!).  [42:06] If you enjoy the experience I’ve provided here for you, will you share about it? That could mean leaving a rating/review or sharing the episode with a friend (or 10!) Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: Influence Is Your Superpower, by Zoe Chance Influence (New & Expanded), by Robert Cialdini How to Change, by Katy Milkman The Invisible Gorilla, by Christopher Chabris & Daniel Simons The Experience Maker, by Dan Gingiss Connect with Zoe:  Zoe’s Website Zoe on LinkedIn Zoe on Twitter Top Recommended Next Episode: Dr. Robert Cialdini and the (Now!) 7 Principles of Persuasion (episode 157) Already Heard That One? Try These:  Priming (episode 18) The Most Important Step in Applying Behavioral Economics: Understanding the Problem (episode 126) How To Change, an interview Dr. Katy Milkman (episode 151) IKEA Effect (episode 112) How to Create Remarkable Experiences with Dan Gingiss Framing (episode 16) Vision Does Not Happen In The Eyes, But In The Brain - On The Sense of Sight (episode 24) Peak-End Rule (episode 97) Surprise and Delight (episode 60) Other Important Links:  Brainy Bites - Melina’s new LinkedIn Newsletter  Zoe’s Yale Faculty Page How to Make a Behavior Addictive: Zoë Chance at TEDxMillRiver Derren Brown, The Apocalypse Derren Brown, Perfect Present Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am very excited to introduce you to Elina Halonen, a behavioral insights strategist who has worked in the space for 15 years and co-founded a London-based insights consultancy working with global brands on branding, communications, and product/service development projects. She has expertise in behavioural analysis & design, consumer insights & market research, Cultural understanding, desk research & trends, branding & marketing strategy, and more.  Today on the show we talk a little about the COM-B and MOVE models, as well as Elina pre-committing to us all that she is going to write a book, called the Behavioural Blueprint! COM-B is for: Capability, Opportunity, Motivation, and Behavior. MOVE is for: Meanings, Observations, Viewpoints, and Experiences. We dive into what these models mean, a couple of examples, and so many other great topics. Show Notes: [00:40] Today I am very excited to introduce you to Elina Halonen, a behavioral insights strategist who has worked in the space for 15 years and co-founded a London-based insights consultancy working with global companies on branding, communications, and product/service development projects. [03:13] Elina and Melina have been connected on LinkedIn for years and officially meeting for the first time for this interview!  [03:53] Elina shares about herself and her background.  [05:15] For the last couple of years she has worked as an independent consultant and has worked with various research agencies.  [08:02] Tips for starting a business in an emerging market? Find a niche where you can raise awareness for what you do. Some areas are easier than others. Find a way to educate the market. [09:52] You will need a lot of creativity to promote yourself and what you do.  [12:07] If you pick what you are going to do, you have to be all-in on that thing for at least a year to give it a chance to be successful.  [14:55] Elina’s first degrees were in marketing and it was always about consumer behavior.  [16:42] All of business is a long game.  [17:22] Give information generously. Make sure you add value to people. [20:31] She works with market research agencies and brings her behavioral science expertise.  [22:19] There are different ways of talking about behavioral science depending on what it is you are doing. It is not one size fits all.   [23:01] When they do a project, they think about the target behavior, what is the business objective, and what behaviors do they want to influence or change.  [25:04] Elina shares her commitment to writing her book, Behavioral Blueprint. Hold her accountable on Twitter. (handles below) [27:51] Melina shares her tips for writing a book, including to break it down and just get started.  [28:39] Break it down into chapters and look at what content you already have that fits that information and start segmenting it in.  [31:34] Bringing cultural psychology into behavioral change is becoming increasingly important.  [33:45] She has an intuitive process of looking at things in a certain way that is her Behavioral Blueprint.  [35:02] Start by looking at the situation and accessing what you are up against. [35:44] She is a big fan of the COM-B model: Capability, Opportunity, Motivation, and Behavior. [36:46] There is a huge amount of context that applied behavioral science often ignores.  [39:11] When she is analyzing or trying to organize things she likes to make it logical.  [41:54] Solving the wrong problem is very common and very human. Not spending enough time identifying the problem is the biggest mistake Melina sees companies make.  [43:37] Elina shares her blog post that she wrote about Netflix solving the wrong problem.  [45:10] Everything you do has an opportunity cost. We need to be sure we are solving the right problem first. It is the foundation of everything we do.  [48:03] We need to understand someone’s logic empathically, putting ourselves in their shoes before we try to change their behavior.  [50:53] There are just some ways of spending money that is socially acceptable and some that aren’t.  [51:15] Never assume you understand why someone does something because you don’t.  [53:45] It’s not about you, it’s about the audience. Could it help someone else? [54:35] Melina shares her closing thoughts.  [56:19] If you enjoy the experience I’ve provided here for you, will you share about it? That could mean leaving a rating/review or sharing the episode with a friend (or 10!) Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: Engaged, by Amy Bucher Predictably Irrational, by Dan Ariely Semiotics in Marketing, by Rachel Lawes Get it Done, by Ayelet Fishbach What Your Customer Wants and Can't Tell You, by Melina Palmer Connect with Elina:  Square Peg Insights Elina on LinkedIn Elina on Twitter Top Recommended Next Episode: The Most Important Step in Applying Behavioral Economics: Understanding the Problem (episode 126) Already Heard That One? Try These:  Reciprocity (episode 23) Dan Ariely Interview: Discussing Shapa, the Numberless Scale (episode 101) Framing (episode 16) Survivorship Bias (episode 110) What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You: All About Melina’s First Book (episode 147) How to Set, Achieve & Exceed Brainy Goals (episode 70) Precommitment (episode 120) Time Pressure  (episode 74) The Overwhelmed Brain and Its Impact on Decision Making (episode 32) https://thebrainybusiness.com/podcast/164-how-businesses-can-design-for-behavior-change-with-dr-amy-bucher/ How To Set Up Your Own Experiments (episode 63) Confirmation Bias (episode 102) Interview with Rachel Lawes (episode 191) coming Feb. 11! Other Important Links:  Brainy Bites - Melina’s new LinkedIn Newsletter  De-Mystifying COM-B And How It Can Be Used In Research The MOVE Framework: Meanings, Observations, Viewpoints, and Experiences in processes of Social Change Squared Away Newsletter Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am very excited to introduce you to Dr. Kurt Nelson, one of the cohosts of Behavioral Grooves as well as the president and founder of The Lantern Group.  In our conversation today we dig into motivation and incentivizing people at work and how to align that with your company strategy. We discuss how simple, seemingly “obvious” things can cause miscommunications so easily, like the word “grooves” in Behavioral Grooves. Tim and Kurt had many conversations about the name and agreed to it and were doing their first interview when they realized they had totally different ideas of that context - ha! Listen in to hear the full story. Kurt also shares his top podcasting tips and advice for anyone thinking about starting their own show. He shares so many great insights in our conversation, you definitely want to make sure to listen in.  Show Notes: [00:41] Today I am very excited to introduce you to Dr. Kurt Nelson, one of the cohosts of Behavioral Grooves as well as the president and founder of The Lantern Group. [02:17] Recently, Tim and Kurt did a session in the BE Thoughtful Revolution - watch the replay. [03:26] Kurt shares about himself and his background. He is a behavioral scientist and he has been working in the field for 20+ years.  [05:04] Discussion on the music piece of Behavioral Grooves (and an interesting miscommunication that can teach you about business).  [07:43] There are over 260 episodes of the Behavioral Grooves podcast.    [09:34] Melina believes that Abbey Road by The Beatles is the greatest album ever.  [12:25] Sometimes we get constrained by our own knowledge. The idea of not knowing allows you to be more expansive in your thoughts about what could be. [13:40] People get limited not only by their expertise, but also by their history. [15:33] The interesting piece about business and the world is that it is constantly evolving, shifting, and changing. What worked last year might not work this year. The context changes by company and year.   [17:31] Co-hosts work on a podcast if you have a clear understanding and respect for each other. You also need to have an understanding of who is doing different roles.  [18:59] Consistency is key!  [20:18] As a host you have to bring a unique perspective to the story they are telling and ask them the right questions.  [22:04] A lot of the work Kurt does focuses on applying a behavioral science lens inside of organizations and trying to help the company understand the drivers of an employee’s behavior and the motivation behind that behavior. They usually start with a behavioral audit.  [24:06] A big gap is almost always communication. You can have the best incentive plan, total rewards, and structure in place, but if people don’t understand it or buy into it, you are missing a big opportunity. [26:27] Kurt shares two of his corporate projects. They looked at the current programs they had in place and what behaviors they were driving.  [28:26] Companies want the behaviors the incentive plans and rewards programs are driving to align with the company strategy.  [29:03] The pandemic has been a real game-changer for many organizations.  [30:14] You need to treat your employees as humans. Understand what you can do as a manager to allow that human-centeredness of your employees to really be there and that you are bringing in the elements of listening, care, empathy, and concern.  [32:19] Understanding incentives becomes even more important when people are working remotely.  [32:39] The incentives need to match the audience you are currently trying to appeal to.   [34:43] That alignment with your incentives and your audience might mean you might have to exclude a certain group of people. [35:47] Get the philosophy aligned with where you want to go before you even start to think about the specifics of how your rewards, incentives, and communication all go into play.  [36:50] In business we often think we are on the same page, but there are so many different perspectives that didn’t even come into your brain.  [39:03] There is a real value of bringing someone in that isn’t a part of the organization to do some of this work.  [41:47] Melina shares her closing thoughts.  [42:22] Join my free community, the BE Thoughtful Revolution. Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: Friction, by Roger Dooley Predictably Irrational, by Dan Ariely Finding Confidence in Conflict, by Kwame Christian Never Go With Your Gut, by Gleb Tsipursky Good Habits, Bad Habits, by Wendy Wood Connect with Kurt:  Behavioral Grooves Website Lantern Group Website Kurt on Twitter Top Recommended Next Episode: Secrets of Motivation and Incentives, Tim Houlihan Interview (episode 109) Already Heard That One? Try These:  Only 1% of People Blow the Whistle at Work—How to Fix That, with Nuala Walsh (episode 153) How to Have Difficult Conversations About Race & Inequality: Interview with Kwame Christian  (episode 107) Dan Ariely Interview: Discussing Shapa, the Numberless Scale (episode 101) Anchoring (episode 11) Incentives - The "N" In NUDGES (episode 36) How to Avoid Disasters When Returning to the Office, with Dr. Gleb Tsipursky (episode 175) Status Quo Bias (episode 142) Friction - What It Is And How To Reduce It, with Roger Dooley (episode 72) Framing (episode 16) Priming (episode 18) Loss Aversion (episode 9) The Overwhelmed Brain and Its Impact on Decision Making (episode 32) Herding (episode 19) Other Important Links:  Brainy Bites - Melina’s new LinkedIn Newsletter  Texas A&M Certificate Program Melina on Behavioral Grooves episode 109 Melina on Behavioral Grooves episode 242 Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am very excited to introduce you to Dr. Ayelet Fishbach. She is the Jeffrey Breakenridge Keller Professor of Behavioral Science and Marketing at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business, and the past president of the Society for the Study of Motivation and the International Social Cognition Network (ISCON). She is an expert on motivation and decision making and the author of the brand new book, which just released this week called Get it Done: Surprising Lessons from the Science of Motivation.   Of course, Ayelet’s insights are valuable all year round, but it is very much intentional to have this as the first episode of the year. This really is the time of year where people are thinking about goals and motivation. Your New Year’s resolutions are still hopefully intact, and you can increase your chances of meeting and exceeding them with these insights from Ayelet. Regardless of when you listen, it’s always a good opportunity to set and achieve a new goal. After all, tomorrow is the first day of the rest of your life. 😉 She shares so many top tips for getting it done this year…you don’t want to miss it!  Show Notes: [00:42] Today I am very excited to introduce you to Dr. Ayelet Fishbach,  the Jeffrey Breakenridge Keller Professor of Behavioral Science and Marketing at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business, and the past president of the Society for the Study of Motivation and the International Social Cognition Network (ISCON). [01:17] Ayelet’s groundbreaking research on human motivation has won her several international awards, including the Society of Experimental Social Psychology’s Best Dissertation Award and Career Trajectory Award, and the Fulbright Educational Foundation Award. [04:18] Ayelet shares her background and how she got into the space of motivation science.  [07:02] Our circumstances often influence what we achieve in life and sometimes we are lucky to have situations where our personal interests fit what people are starting to be interested in around you.  [07:57] She started her research with an interest in self-control and the question on her mind was how people respond when they learn that there is an upcoming problem. For example, will you eat more or less when you know in advance that the food at the party will be delicious and tempting? 🤔  [09:22] Her Ph.D. dissertation research was testing if the anticipation of knowing temptation was coming made people better able to combat these temptations. [11:05] Thinking through problems and knowing what obstacles are going to happen to allow you to create a plan to keep yourself motivated and on track.  [13:52] Ayelet’s new book is called Get It Done. She shares how the book cover came about.  [17:33] Ayelet’s book takes a very different approach by starting with a cautionary tale about Everest.  [19:19] Choosing the right goal is critical. Have a healthy relationship with your goals.  [21:56] We need to move from setting unhealthy extreme goals for our lives.  [22:37] Setting goals can also have downsides.  [24:58] More than half of the New Year’s resolutions that people set are working out and eating healthy.  [26:04] The predictor of success for our New Year’s resolution is how much pleasure we find in the path of pursuing the goal. So plan accordingly.  [26:40] It has to be somewhat rewarding as you do it and you have to find a path that is fun and rewarding along the way.  [28:47] We don’t have a lot of empathy for our future selves. We think that our future self will do what is important to her.  [29:42] The number one mistake in setting resolutions is setting it to some ideal version of yourself that is not who you are.  [31:45] Do the mental simulation of how it will feel to do your resolution all year. Then think about how you can make it more fun.  [34:05] Ayelet shares why something like Pokémon GO! can be valuable for goal achievement of being healthier or walking more. It allows you to get the steps, connect with other people, and connect to your childhood.  [35:16] Make your activities rewarding in the moment so you are excited to do them. [36:41] The problem with avoidance goals is that they are not exciting and they bring to mind the thing you are trying to avoid.  [37:28] You need to consider, “What should I do so I don’t do the thing I don’t want to do? What should I think about that is helpful to me?” Framing things as what you should do is almost always better.  [40:04] When people think about healthy food in a tasty way, they are better able to actually eat the healthy food.  [41:25] She shares a wine example that comes from thinking about how people resolve tradeoffs.  [43:42] Ayelet shares the four buckets all goals need to have so you have a better chance of achieving them. [45:01] The last element is social support. Who in your life is going to help you with your goal? It is so critical that people around us are supportive.  [47:34] Melina shares her closing thoughts.  [49:53] Check out and subscribe to Brainy Bites — now on LinkedIn! [52:16] If you enjoy the experience I’ve provided here for you, will you share about it? That could mean leaving a rating/review or sharing the episode with a friend (or 10!) Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: Get It Done, by Ayelet Fishbach How To Change, by Katy Milkman Predictably Irrational, by Dan Ariely The Power of Us, by Jay Van Bavel and Dominic Packer Good Habits, Bad Habits, by Wendy Wood Connect with Ayelet:  Ayelet’s Website Ayelet on Twitter Ayelet on LinkedIn Top Recommended Next Episode: Temptation Bundling (episode 136) Already Heard That One? Try These:  Priming (episode 18) Get Your D.O.S.E. of Brain Chemicals (episode 123) How To Change, an interview Dr. Katy Milkman (episode 151) Dan Ariely Interview: Discussing Shapa, the Numberless Scale (episode 101) The Power of Us with Dr. Dominic Packer (episode 178) Framing (episode 16) How to Set, Achieve & Exceed Brainy Goals (episode 70) Good Habits, Bad Habits: An Interview with Wendy Wood (episode 127) Expect Error: The "E" in NUDGES (episode 39) Give Feedback: The "G" in NUDGES (episode 40) Resolutions and Keeping Commitments (episode 29) Time Discounting (episode 51) The Overwhelmed Brain and Its Impact on Decision Making (episode 32) How to Get (and Stay) Motivated (episode 67) Other Important Links:  Brainy Bites - Melina’s new LinkedIn Newsletter  Texas A&M Self-Control Research Could Help You Stick With Your New Year’s Resolutions University of Chicago, Chicago Booth School of Business Faculty Directory: Ayelet Fishbach Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am beyond delighted to introduce you to my friend Dan Gingiss to talk about how to create remarkable experiences that your customers can’t wait to share. Dan is an international keynote speaker and coach who believes that a remarkable customer experience is your best sales and marketing strategy.  His 20-year professional career included leadership positions at McDonald’s, Discover, and Humana. He is the author of two books, including The Experience Maker which we will discuss today, and is the host of two shows, the Experience This! podcast and The Experience Maker LinkedIn live show.  While Dan’s insights are valuable at any time, it is very much intentional to have this as the last episode of the year. This is a time many reflect on the year that has just ended and think about what they will be doing next. If your plan doesn’t already include an improved customer experience and having a business that people can’t wait to share about, it should. Listen to today’s episode as you consider your customer experience and look to improve it in the new year.  Show Notes: [00:39] Today I am beyond delighted to introduce you to my friend Dan Gingiss to talk about how to create remarkable experiences that your customers can’t wait to share. [03:36] Dan shares his experience speaking at Social Media Marketing World for the first time.   [04:30] Dan shares his background of 20 plus years in corporate America.  [05:04] We all know that word of mouth is the holy grail of marketing. It is much better when someone is saying nice things about us than if we are saying nice things about ourselves.  [05:29] A remarkable customer experience is your best marketing strategy.  [08:34] We have so much data on our customers that we don’t use and we forget to come back to.  [11:03] Experience can happen anywhere. It is about knowing when to provide the right experience when your customers need it most or don’t expect it.  [13:47] There are so many little things that we can do. Some people may advocate to only focus on one side, but Dan (and Melina!) suggest you both get rid of pain points and create positive moments.  [14:26] If we keep focusing on the little things, they absolutely add up to something amazing.  [15:48] We have got to empower all of our employees to truly believe they are in the customer experience business.  [16:56] Become a customer of your own business.  [18:49] Remove pain points and create peaks in your customer journey.  [20:08] If your customer is frustrated with your company, they are going to be more open to a TV commercial or social media ad for your competitor.  [22:16] The WISER Methodology teaches you how to create the kinds of experiences that people want to talk about. You have to be intentional about the experience to make it so someone wants to share it.  [22:55] W stands for witty, I is immersive, S is sharable, E is extraordinary and R is responsive.  [25:18] Millennials and Gen Z in particular want a relationship with the brands they spend their hard-earned money with. In order to have a relationship, you have to have human interaction.  [26:48] We don’t have to delight in the same way every time.   [28:57] There is a part of every business where either you do it the same way as everybody else or the same way it has always been done and you can turn it into something that can be an experience when people least expect it.  [30:43] Whenever you can play to peoples’ kids or pets, you are going to hit them in the heart.  [32:36] There are lots of opportunities, but we just have to seize them and look for chances when people don’t expect it.  [35:07] With gift-giving, make sure you are giving a gift you would like to receive (i.e. don’t slap a giant logo on your “gift”).  [37:00] Shareable is the end goal and it has to be strategic and intentional.  [39:27] There are so many opportunities where we can kick it up a little notch and do something unique—it is a great way to stand out. You don’t have to spend more, just spend differently.  [40:39] Look for ways to make work more fun and enjoyable.  [42:37] Every communication is an opportunity.  [45:36] Melina shares her closing thoughts.  [48:28] If you enjoy the experience I’ve provided here for you, will you share about it? That could mean leaving a rating/review or sharing the episode with a friend (or 10!) Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: The Experience Maker, by Dan Gingiss Start At The End, by Matt Wallaert Giftology, by John Ruhlin Choice Hacking, by Jennifer Clinehens Friction, by Roger Dooley Connect with Dan:  Dan’s Website Dan on Twitter Dan on LinkedIn Top Recommended Next Episode: Surprise and Delight (episode 60) Already Heard That One? Try These:  Dr. Robert Cialdini and the (Now!) 7 Principles of Persuasion (episode 157) Friction - What It Is And How To Reduce It, with Roger Dooley (episode 72) Peak-End Rule  (episode 97) Sludge (episode 179) How to Build Products That Create Change, An Interview with Matt Wallaert (episode 128) Bikeshedding (episode 99) Get Your D.O.S.E. of Brain Chemicals (episode 123) Herding (episode 19) Where CX and Behavioral Science Meet, interview with Jennifer Clinehens, author of Choice Hacking (episode 141) A Guide for You to Create a Brainy Brand (episode 43) The Most Important Step in Applying Behavioral Economics: Understanding the Problem (episode 126) Unboxing videos (episode 180) The Power of Fast-Choice & Implicit Testing with CloudArmy’s Keith Ewart (episode 183) Focusing Illusion (episode 89) Other Important Links:  Dan’s Error Page Experience This Show Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

So much happened in 2021 at The Brainy Business and in the Palmer household, it has been fun to reflect on it for this episode. Here are a few highlights:  In January, I started teaching a new class at Texas A&M University through the certificate in Applied Behavioral Economics via the Human Behavior Lab.   In March, we rolled out the new website and on May 1st, I launched my free global community of behavioral economics enthusiasts with (currently) over 500 members.  My first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You come out on May 11, 2021, and I got to be part of some amazing events this past year sharing about it and other parts of my work.  And, while I didn’t talk about it much publicly, I had a baby in 2021! The Brainy Baby, Mr. Hudson Grey Palmer, was born on August 9th and is a fantastic addition to our family.  Join me as we take a look back at all the excitement and top content of 2021. I hope you will enjoy this walkthrough of last year as much as I did.  Show Notes: [00:06] Today’s episode is showcasing the best content from The Brainy Business in 2021. [02:12] My very first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You came out on May 11, 2021! [03:49] Melina had a baby in 2021! The Brainy Baby, Mr. Hudson Grey Palmer was born on August 9th. Look how cute he is. :) [07:51] Top Countries Downloading The Brainy Business: The US is first, followed by UK, Canada, Australia, India, Germany, Brazil, Mexico, the Netherlands and Spain.  [09:02] Top Ten States: Coming in at number 10 Pennsylvania then New Jersey at number 9, Virginia at number 8, Illinois at number 7, Ohio at 6, Florida as number 5, New York at number 4, Washington at 3, Texas at 2, and California still with the top most downloads of 2021. [10:32] Of the 470,000 total downloads of the show so far, 250,001 have come from the US. That means nearly half of our downloads are international, which is so cool. [12:53] Of those more than 175,000 downloads of the show in 2021, and now with 184 episodes of content to choose from, we get our top 10 episodes of the year, starting with episode 136 on Temptation Bundling. [14:20] Next we have episode 165, when Matej Sucha of Mindworx and insideBE came onto the show discussing research they have done and the case studies of insideBE, which launched in 2021 as well. [15:32] At the number 8 spot we have episode 158 with Matthew Confer letting you know the three things everyone needs to do before you decide. [16:12] Next, at number 7 we have episode 160, an interview with Matt Johnson, coauthor of Blindsight. [17:20] At number 6, we have the only foundations episode to make the top 10 this year, and it was a relatively new one which is pretty cool. This is episode 171 on The Paradox of Choice. [18:33] Our top 5 kicks off with episode 164, an interview with Amy Bucher about her fantastic book Engaged, and so much more about her work in applying behavioral economics. [19:32] At number 4, is episode 140, an interview with Benny Cheung where we talked about some research he did at Dectech that was also featured in chapter 28 of my book, which showcases the importance of testing. [20:55] At number 3 we have episode 159, a behavioral economics analysis of Amazon and coming in at number 2 is episode 144, a behavioral economics analysis of Disney. [22:22] Our top most downloaded episode of 2021, which was episode 157, my interview with Robert Cialdini on his new and expanded edition of Influence, which includes a whole new 7th principle of persuasion. [23:27] One of my main tips is to play the long game and form great relationships so pitching is easier. [26:33] There has never been a month of the podcast where every episode didn’t get at least 1 download. [27:24] Let’s dig into that top 10 of all time list starting with number 10, which was episode 111, Avoiding everyday work disasters, with Gleb Tsipursky. [28:24] Next is episode 62 on Game Theory and the 8th most downloaded episode of all time, is number 102 on Confirmation Bias. [31:00] The 7th most downloaded is episode 83, How to organize your brain with behavioral economics followed by episode 61 on Color Theory.  [33:37] The episodes with the fifth and third most downloads are both analyses of companies again, like I already talked about for the top downloads of 2021. However, these are different profiles, including number 86 with a behavioral economics analysis of Peloton, and episode 73 with a behavioral economics analysis of Starbucks.  [34:57] In that number 4 spot we have episode 5, The Truth About Pricing. [35:37] Number two is episode 2, The Top 5 Wording Mistakes Businesses Make. [36:37] The most downloaded episode of all time is the very first one, Unlocking the Secrets of the Brain. [39:55] The final top 10 list are the most read articles from my Inc Magazine column in 2021. For the full list, check out the blog post linked here with the summary of all three top content areas! [42:50] The 7th most read article is called, “Dread going to work every day? The culprit may be hanging in your office.” [43:16] The 6th most read article on Inc is the first one I wrote for them. It is called, “1 Simple Brain Trick That Can Help You Overcome Self-Doubt Forever.” [44:57] The fourth most read article is on one of my very favorite things. It’s called, “Forget brainstorming. Try questionstorming.” [45:38] The third most read article is, “Feeling unproductive? This brain bias could be to blame.” [46:07] In our still Zoom-filled virtual world, it isn’t surprising that the second most read article this year was, “Why you hate seeing your face in video meetings.” [47:02] “Don’t ask ‘What are you thankful for?’ Try this instead” is my most read article of 2021. [48:22] What’s ahead for The Brainy Business in 2022? [51:22] Thank you again for making 2021 such an amazing year and for listening, subscribing, sharing, rating, and reviewing The Brainy Business podcast. I appreciate you all, and can’t wait to see what 2022 has in store. Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode:   The Paradox of Choice, by Barry Schwartz Never Go With Your Gut, by Gleb Tsipursky Influence (New and Expanded), by Robert Cialdini Engaged, by Amy Bucher Blindsight, by Matt Johnson and Prince Ghuman Top recommended next episode: The Best of The Brainy Business in 2020 (ep 133) Already heard that one? Try these:  The Best Content from the Brainy Business in 2019 (ep 82) Dr. Robert Cialdini and the (Now!) 7 Principles of Persuasion (ep 157) Behavioral economics of Disney (ep 144) Behavioral economics of Amazon (ep 159) Unlocking the Secrets of the Brain (ep 1) The Top 5 Wording Mistakes Businesses Make (ep 2) Starbucks (ep 73) Other Important Links:  Best of 2021 Blog Post  Best of 2020 Blog Post Best of 2019 Blog Post Don’t Ask “What Are You Thankful For?” Try This Instead (Inc.com) Why You Hate Seeing Your Face In Video Meetings (Inc.com) Feeling Unproductive? This Brain Bias Could Be To Blame (Inc.com) Texas A&M Certificate in Applied Behavioral Economics The Brainy Business Shop Check out Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today rounds out this miniseries of companies providing testing opportunities for businesses with a conversation about fast-choice and implicit testing with CloudArmy’s Dr. Keith Ewart.  During our conversation today, Keith starts by telling us all about testing and project work he did during his 24 years at Proctor and Gamble – the positives and the pitfalls – and the work he now does as VP of Insights at CloudArmy.  He will share about some of the issues in testing at large organizations, including being stuck executing projects that you know won’t work well because the testing took too long to come back and being too far down the track to implement something new. (So frustrating!) That’s why the super quick and incredibly effective fast-choice and implicit testing that CloudArmy does is such a great solution, which he will also give insight on. Listen now to learn all about it (and best next steps for starting your own project). Show Notes: [00:42] I am so excited to introduce you to Dr. Keith Ewart, partner and VP of insights at CloudArmy. [03:35] Keith shares about where he lives and his background.  [05:04] He actually started off in microbiology. After working in microbiology for about a year and a half he saw the wonderful world of insights and requested a move.  [06:38] A key part of his life at Proctor and Gamble was in packaging and developing better packaging solutions.  [07:47] The importance of understanding the packaging impact in the zero moment of truth all the way to the purchase in store.  [09:18] They were encouraged to think about multi-sensory signals.  [10:36] The third moment of truth is asking if that whole experience was so good that you want to tell your friends about it. It is important to have testimonials and brand advocates.  [12:46] The third moment of truth is not talked about in many companies.  [13:57] We want to drive the habits and at the same time we uncover what those barriers are. If we can uncover those barriers, we can put solutions in place.  [14:51] One of the biggest barriers to innovation is speed.  [16:05] Keith is a massive fan of fast cycle learning, rapid prototyping, bringing ideas to life very early on, and getting the voice of the consumer in the room as quickly as possible.  [18:15] What you really want is an individual's true response and ideally more than one or two focus groups.  [20:01] You can start to think about concepts, positioning, and using imagery to convey those brand positioning or benefits you want to get across.   [22:40] CloudArmy is a software company and programmers who have a background in the whole field.  [24:19] The beauty of a true implicit methodology is that consumers don’t even realize that they are being evaluated.  It is based solely on reaction times.  [26:28] They are using implicit tests for packaging, messaging, advertising, and across the board.  They are getting a true unconscious response to a set of stimulus.  [28:31] If you want to design your own test, it is not a problem.  The key thing is what is the objective of the client and what is the best tool to understand and utilize.  [31:03] Context is key. Defining what you are really trying to get at and what success looks like. Make sure your problem statement is defined and can be measured. Take the data and translate it to actionable insights.  [33:15] Keep things simple. People’s brains are tired and they can’t cope with so much information.  [34:00] How many people can truly say they know what their brand stands for? What does the consumer really think is the most important component of their brand? [36:27] Everyone should spend more time understanding the problem.    [38:20] The more constraints you put in place the longer time it will take. It is often beneficial to keep the sample broad.  [41:14] When you get everyone in the room together all trying to create and you get the toolkits around to help evaluate these things, you can make decisions quickly [44:21] Melina shares her closing thoughts.  [47:24] Shop at The Brainy Business shop for that perfect brainy gear. Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: Neuro design: Neuromarketing insights to boost engagement and profitability, by Darren Bridger Decoding the Irrational Consumer: How to Commission, Run and Generate Insights from Neuromarketing Research, by Darren Bridger Soul of the New Consumer: Authenticity-What We Buy and Why in the New Economy, by Darren Bridger How Brands Grow, by Byron Sharp Choice Hacking, by Jennifer Clinehens Connect with CloudArmy:  CloudArmy Website CloudArmy on Twitter CloudArmy on LinkedIn Top Recommended Next Episode: What Problem Are You Solving? (episode 126) Already Heard That One? Try These:  Sense of Smell (episode 25) Sense of Sound (episode 27) Sense of Touch (episode 28) Priming (episode 18) Habits (episode 21) Herding (episode 19) Inside the Texas A&M Human Behavior Lab (episode 33) iMotions (episode 182) The Power of Metaphors with Olson Zaltman’s Malcolm & Hannibal Brooks (episode 181) How To Set Up Your Own Experiments (episode 63) Where CX and Behavioral Science Meet, interview with Jennifer Clinehens, author of Choice Hacking (episode 141) Other Important Links:  CloudArmy Podcast CloudArmy Use Cases Nudgestock Project Implicit: Take a Test Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

How often does your business run tests?  Testing is so important. You don’t need to do fancy stuff every time and there are so many types of testing. If you don’t take the time to test, you can’t know what is working and there is a good chance you are wasting time on stuff that isn’t going to help you reach your goals.  Today, I am so excited to introduce you to Dr. Jessica Wilson, technical director at iMotions who got her Ph.D. in neuroscience from Northwestern University. As you will hear in the episode, she and I have been working together on a project for quite some time now and I am very excited to have results to share with you now. This episode will talk about that study we did together for The Brainy Business as well as some of the other awesome work iMotions is doing. Show Notes: [00:40] Today, I am so excited to introduce you to Dr. Jessica Wilson, technical director at iMotions who got her Ph.D. in neuroscience from Northwestern University. [03:31] Jessica shares more about who she is and what she does. Her background is in research and neuroscience.  [03:58] iMotions is a software company that provides a platform that can integrate and synchronize different neuroscience tools.  [05:28] There are so many different applications; iMotions does product testing, ads testing, sensory work, and more.  [08:23] The most basic setup includes eye-tracking, facial expression analysis, and skin conductance. Those three work really well together and they are also very easy to get started with.  [10:23] These tools are really helpful in certain ways, but at the end of the day the research question is king and it will help dictate what tools you use.  [12:10] Jessica shares details about video testing and applying test results.  [14:54] The data to help you make the best design decisions at the time when it counts.  [15:16] Jessica shares a study using video testing from the University of South Florida.  [16:52] The common theme in all these methods is that the most effective projects have a distinct research question and distinct variables.  [19:01] For the first phase of The Brainy Business website project, we looked at where people naturally gravitated to on the website. For the second phase of the study we adopted more of a task-based approach.  [20:47] Melina was doing a redesign of the website so she did a study with iMotions that she talked about in her book. They did two tests.  [23:21] The first thing they had people do was just a free one-minute navigation. They wanted to see if there were things they attended to more than others, if things got ignored, or if they were scattered all over the place with their attention. Just looking at the one-minute navigation both sites did pretty well.  [24:23] The differences started to happen when the task components were introduced.  [26:23] There were two tasks for the study, each with its own scenario.  [28:39] One of the best things about running a test like this is that you are really forced to narrow it down to one thing.  [31:03] The best research looks at one or two things.  [33:21] With the old website there was a 12% success rate of actually clicking on the pricing course and the success rate went up to 70% with the new website design. [35:38] For the corporate page, it was found that it was giving too much information, reducing the effectiveness. [36:48] Melina was able to use insights from the two tests to help with the full redesign and integrate it into other areas of the site as well.  [38:51] You don’t have to use the whole testimonial. It can be much more impactful if you call out the little highlights that can get buried in a paragraph.  [39:48] In the second test, the difference between the two prototypes was how they framed the testimonials.  [41:30] People will start at the very top of web pages and you will see a lot of aggregation from the left to the right on the top and on the left side going down and slowly fading over time as people start skipping past things.  [43:23] Across most of the different measures of eye-tracking it looked like less was more in this case. Just taking the highlights from the testimonials goes a long way in being able to direct attention to the area and people will spend more time looking there. [45:40] Melina will be including pictures and other information about the test on the Apply It page.  [46:38] Once the pandemic hit, people weren’t collecting data anymore because you can’t bring people into a physical lab space. They started looking at online data collection and remote options. [48:03] You get research unrestricted by the bounds of geography. There are now more possibilities than ever for how we can collect this data.  [50:07] Melina shares her closing thoughts.  [52:37] Shop at The Brainy Business shop for that perfect brainy gear. Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: Ripple, by Jez Groom and April Vellacott Engaged, by Amy Bucher Marketing to Mindstates, by Will Leach Designing for Behavior Change, by Stephen Wendell What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You, by Melina Palmer     Connect with iMotions:  iMotions Website iMotions on Twitter iMotions on LinkedIn Top Recommended Next Episode: What Problem Are You Solving? (episode 126) Already Heard That One? Try These:  Inside the Texas A&M Human Behavior Lab (episode 33) Social Proof (episode 87) The Power of Metaphors with Olson Zaltman’s Malcolm & Hannibal Brooks (episode 181) Cloud Army (episode 183) How To Set Up Your Own Experiments (episode 63) Priming (episode 18) What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You: All About Melina’s First Book (episode 147) What is Behavioral Baking? (episode 155) How Businesses Can Design for Behavior Change, with Dr. Amy Bucher (episode 164) Designing for Behavior Change, Interview with Dr. Steve Wendel (episode 116) Planning Fallacy (episode 114) Time Discounting (episode 51) Framing (episode 16) Other Important Links:  Human Behavior Lab Certificate Program Innovative neuroeconomics research at Texas A&M Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

You are familiar with metaphors...you likely learned about them in elementary school. But do you know how important they are in your business?  Well, it turns out that metaphors are way more important in understanding the mind of your consumer than you could have possibly imagined. There are two associates from the firm Olson Zaltman here today to share the power of metaphors and how they use them in their Zaltman Metaphor Elicitation Technique (ZMET) process. The ZMET was created by Dr. Gerald Zaltman at the Harvard Business School in the 1990s and is still incredibly relevant for brands today.  During the conversation, Malcolm and Hannibal Brooks will share how they have used the ZMET for brands like Harvard, Tropicana, a funeral company, and more. Plus, insights into the 16 deep metaphors they work with at Olson Zaltman and why they matter for all companies who want to appeal to their customers (i.e. everyone!).  Show Notes: [00:06] In today’s episode we are digging deep into the power of metaphors with two associates of Olson Zaltman. [02:53] Malcolm and Hannibal share about themselves, their background, and how as twins they ended up in the same field and working together.  [03:44] They both graduated with degrees in food science and went to a master’s program focused on marketing, management, and consumer psychology.  [05:57] At Olson Zaltman, they do research that is focused on understanding the unconscious through metaphor. Their process is focused on using imagery and verbal metaphors to understand emotions.  [06:40] We think in images, not in words; metaphors are our way of describing the world.  [09:28] Metaphors really affect the way we perceive the world around us.  [11:04] Part of what makes these metaphors universal is that a lot of them originate in the experiences we have in life that exist before we can even verbalize.  [12:25] There are 16 deep metaphors that define our experience.  [14:48] Different groups of consumers might have different metaphors or understandings of a product or service.  [15:24] For women, clothing is a form of self-expression and freedom.  For men, clothing is often about a form of control.  [18:12] They share examples of the types of business problems they are solving. [19:42] With ZMET they want to understand with your particular consumers, are they getting something out of your product and your brand? [22:44] Prior to the ZMET process the business only needs to know the problem that they are having.  [25:08] The ZMET process can help answer a lot of questions for businesses.  [25:57] They share their findings from a case study with Harvard. [28:17] Helping to trigger the unity piece can be very valuable (as was the case for Harvard). They have found that there are core principles that they stumble upon time and time again.  [31:12] Deep 1-on-1 guided conversations help them unpack what is the best way for the business to move forward.  [33:20] You want to understand your brand’s core assets and what fits with the mindset people have around it.  [36:19] One of their most fun cases to talk about is the research they did for the Funeral Service Foundation. They found that people would look at their funeral almost as a performance. People don’t want to be remembered in a way that is sad. They want to be remembered for who they were, with a celebration.  [38:57] Their recommendations included creating this online experience that is more fun, including the most fun things about the person and how they want to be remembered. It gets people thinking and talking about their death while they are still alive by making it less scary.  [41:33] Their real work is understanding stories and connecting with people.   [42:23] Melina shares her closing thoughts.  [44:28] Shop at The Brainy Business shop for that perfect brainy gift. Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: How Customers Think: Essential Insights into the Mind of the Market, by Gerald Zaltman Influence, New and Expanded: The Psychology of Persuasion, by Robert Cialdini The Life-Saving Skill of Story: The Life-Saving Skill of Story (Resilience), by Michelle Auerbach Blindsight, by Matt Johnson and Prince Ghuman Marketing to Mindstates, by Will Leach Connect with Olson Zaltman:  Olson Zaltman Website Olson Zaltman on Twitter Olson Zaltman on LinkedIn Top Recommended Next Episode: A Guide for You to Create a Brainy Brand (episode 43) Already Heard That One? Try These:  The Power of Story, with Dr. Michelle Auerbach (episode 145) Dr. Robert Cialdini and the (Now!) 7 Principles of Persuasion (episode 157) Announcing! Certificate in Applied Behavioral Economics from the Texas A&M Human Behavior Laborator (episode 115) The Era of Applied Behavioral Economics, with Matej Such (episode 165) Priming (episode 18) Framing (episode 16) The Most Important Step in Applying Behavioral Economics: Understanding the Problem (episode 126) Neuroscience and Psychology in the Business World, with Matt Johnson coauthor of Blindsight (episode 160) Why We Like The Things We Like, with Prince Ghuman coauthor of Blindsight (episode 172) Marketing to Mindstates, with Will Leach (episode 88) Other Important Links:  Deep Metaphors from Olson Zaltman Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

If you’re a human person with any access to the internet, you are likely familiar with unboxing videos. Maybe you like and watch them yourself, maybe your kids love to watch other people open up boxes of toys, or maybe you avoid them at all costs. Whatever camp you are in, at one point or another, you probably thought something like, “Why do so many people watch these?” or “Why do these work?” Today’s episode is dedicated to talking through the brain science of what is going on behind the scenes of an unboxing video. In this episode I talk about why they work, what to keep in mind if you ever decide to make your own, and some insights on the various types of “unboxings” out there (anything with a reveal pretty much counts). We will dig in on mirror neurons, anticipation/dopamine, priming, the senses, and more!  Listen now to get the scoop on unboxing videos.  Show Notes: [00:06] Ever wondered why unboxing videos are a thing? That’s what we’re focusing on in today’s episode. [03:19] There are countless ways to do these unboxing or reveal videos. [04:01] In this episode, I am going to talk about four main things that are happening with unboxing videos, or that you should keep in mind when you create these yourself. We are going to talk about mirror neurons, dopamine created by anticipation, priming, the senses, and more. [04:35] Mirror neurons are the key to empathy and our ability to learn from observing others instead of only by doing things ourselves. [06:20] Mirror neurons greatly impact our lives every day. They have done some amazing things for all of humanity, the first of which is our ability to learn by observation and the second is our ability to empathize. [07:31] In an unboxing video, when someone else is opening the box, it is like we are doing it ourselves. We are able to live vicariously through that experience. Because of the dopamine release, it is very exciting for our brains even if we can’t have and will never have the item that is being opened or revealed. [08:50] Dopamine is tied to anticipation, and so when there is a moment where you aren’t sure what is going to happen -- where you are waiting for that reveal and don’t know what is coming out of the box -- you are getting a kick of dopamine. [10:24] Once you know what is in the box (or how the movie ends), the joy for your brain is over. It is about savoring the anticipation that the brain loves. [10:50] Our brains love that uncertainty and expectation. [11:38] If you want someone to be excited about the unboxing process, you should prime them for that excitement. [13:07] Your excitement breeds more excitement in the viewer. [13:43] If you have too much of a lull, people might get bored and leave. You can play the B-side for a while, but you need to mix in some hits here and there to keep it interesting. [14:15] When you create an unboxing video, it is important to try and incorporate all five of the senses whenever you can to help get those mirror neurons firing. [16:31] Descriptive priming words that evoke the senses are critical when doing any video, and in an unboxing, they can get people excited. [17:54] The internet is full of unboxing videos for a reason, find some and take notes. Be sure to watch good ones, sure, but also find and watch some bad ones. What did they do wrong? When did your attention wane? How can you apply that to your future videos? [18:43] If you have never done an unboxing or reveal video before, what could you do one of? Plan in advance how you might incorporate all our main aspects from this episode: mirror neurons, anticipation, priming, and all five senses...and hit record! [20:33] As it is the holidays, it is a perfect time to pick up some Brainy Gear for you or a friend at The Brainy Business shop.  Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You, by Melina Palmer The Experience Maker, by Dan Gingiss The Hype Handbook, by Michael Schein The Life-Saving Skill of Story, by Michelle Auerbach Marketing Mess to Brand Success, by Scott Miller Top recommended next episode: Mirror Neurons (episode 31) Already heard that one? Try these:  Priming (episode 18) Get Your D.O.S.E. of Brain Chemicals (episode 123) Sense of Smell (episode 25) Sense of Taste (episode 26) Sense of Touch (episode 28) Sense of Hearing (episode 27) Sense of Sight (episode 24) Familiarity Bias (episode 149) Surprise and Delight (episode 60) Scarcity (episode 14) Novelty and Stories (episode 54) Herding (episode 19) Other Important Links:  The Neurons That Shaped Civilization The Mind’s Mirror Shopping, Dopamine, and Anticipation Check out Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

The internationally acclaimed book, Nudge, has shaped a lot of the field of behavioral economics. It has also spurred a whole other area which one of its co-authors, Cass Sunstein, has written a new book about, called Sludge: What Stops Us From Getting Things Done and What To Do About It, which released in fall 2021.  Sludge is everywhere in our lives. So what is it and how do we reduce it? This episode of The Brainy Business podcast is dedicated to all things sludge to help you identify and reduce it in your business. In this episode you will learn about: what sludge is and isn’t; a customer facing example of sludge; a back-office example of sludge; how to quantify sludge; and how to get others on your team on board with finding and removing sludge. No matter your size or industry, I guarantee sludge is a problem in your business. Find it, remove it, and enjoy the benefits. Listen to learn more about sludge... Show Notes: [00:06] Today’s behavioral economics foundations episode is all about sludge. [02:23] Context and the way choices are presented make a huge difference in what we find to be most appealing. When the choices are presented in a different order we might choose something else entirely. [03:32] When you use a tactic to influence choice, we call that a nudge. [05:45] “Sludge is built into the human condition, and we need to start to remove it, piece by piece.” [07:02] “Sludge hurts all of us, but if you are sick, old, disabled, or poor, or if you don't have a lot of education, sludge is a curse.” [08:07] Sludge is everywhere in our lives. Melina shares examples of sludge.  [10:34] “If sludge is understood to consist of frictions that separate people from what they want to get, the concept is not entirely mysterious.” [11:16] Much sludge involves confusing administrative burdens requiring people to obtain information, to figure out whom to call, to find out exactly what they're supposed to do. [13:01] Sometimes it is good for people to be confronted with a little sludge to prove they qualify for a benefit or that they care enough to earn whatever is presented, or that they are a good fit for a position. [13:30] In this episode I’m going to give you a back-office example, a customer-facing example, and some ways to think about quantifying the problem of sludge so you can know its real impact [13:50] When it comes to customer-facing examples, I like to start with the “buy now” button from Amazon. [15:12] In the buying process, questions like “Are you sure?” or extra fields or steps can act as partitions. Each new partition is a point where someone will evaluate if this is worth it or if they should bail completely or plan to “come back later.” Unfortunately, later often never comes. [17:09] Removing the sludge so you only ask what is absolutely necessary can help a lot more people get over that first hurdle. Focus on each micro moment as it exists and what is absolutely necessary.  [18:23] You can turn the sludge up or down as needed, but again I want to stress that most companies have way too much sludge in the way of people doing business with you. [19:41] My main piece of advice: find the least amount of items you need to get someone to move forward in this singular situation. [20:21] Melina shares back office examples including expense reports, checking tools in and out, and signing off on a change. [21:55] Melina shares her experience when she first started at the credit union and changes required a physical form to be completed by hand. (So sludgy!) [24:15] In the back office, when you trust your employees, you can reduce the sludge and things get done faster, for a lot less money than if you don’t have trust. Work on trust and get rid of that sludge. [24:47] Because people get stuck in the status quo, they often don’t feel like they can give up sludge. [25:11] Sunstein gives an example of quantifying sludge with TSA Precheck and shares how quickly the value can add up. [26:40] When you take a minute to quantify the lost sales or the minutes wasted by key staff members, the initiatives that couldn’t be completed because of wasted time, or anything else. It can add up incredibly quickly. [27:21] Sludge is a huge problem in your business, I promise, no matter your size or industry. Find it, remove it, and enjoy the benefits. Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: Sludge, by Cass Sunstein Nudge, by Richard Thaler and Cass Sunstein Friction, by Roger Dooley The Speed of Trust, by Stephen M.R. Covey The Paradox of Choice, by Barry Schwartz Top recommended next episode: Friction, an interview with Roger Dooley (episode 72) Already heard that one? Try these:  Introduction to NUDGES and Choice Architecture (episode 35) iNcentives: the “N” in NUDGES (episode 36) Understanding Mapping: the “U” in NUDGES (episode 37) Defaults: the “D” in NUDGES (episode 38) Give Feedback: the “G” in NUDGES (episode 40) Expect Error: the “E” in NUDGES (episode 39) Structure Complex Choices: the “S” in NUDGES (episode 41) Amazon: a Behavioral Economics Analysis (episode 159) The Speed of Trust, with Stephen M.R. Covey (episode 148) Partitioning (episode 58) Paradox of Choice (episode 171) Status Quo Bias (episode 142) Change Management (episode 7) Framing (episode 16) Interview with Dr. Robert Cialdini (episode 157) Check out Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

It’s November – a month where many begin to reflect on the year and (at least here in the states) consider the things we are thankful for. It kicks off the holiday season and we may begin to think about those around us whom we may see in person or virtually this holiday. Because of that, it seemed like the perfect time to discuss The Power of Us, a new book from coauthors Dr. Jay Van Bavel and Dr. Dominic Packer.  Today, Dr. Dominic Packer is here to talk about this fantastic book and their years of research together. The insights in the book come together to help people harness their shared identities to improve performance, increase cooperation and promote social harmony. I’m guessing you can see why I chose to have this episode come out now, even though it is a couple of months after we recorded and when the book was officially released. It just seemed like the perfect time to share and help everyone to reflect upon the power of “us.” Listen to the episode now to see how this can be leveraged in your life and business... Show Notes: [00:07] In today’s episode I’m excited to introduce you to Dr. Dominic Packer, coauthor of The Power of Us. [03:10] Dominic shares about himself and his background. He is a social psychologist and professor.  [06:01] The book is about group identities. The groups we belong to can become part of who we are.  [06:56] When we take on a group identity, we are very likely to be influenced by the norms of that group.  [07:59] There is a second kind of influence which is informational influence. We look to other people to see what is a sensible thing to do. The norms through those groups become a way we express those identities.  [09:36] Dominic shares about the 20 statements task.  [11:22] For many of us, some really key aspects of ourselves come from these groups. They drive a lot of the way we think of the world, the emotions we feel, and the decisions we end up making.  [13:02] During the course of a single day different aspects of a single person’s identity will come in and out of focus. Our behaviors are not exactly the same at different parts of the day when we operate through these different identities. [14:52] One of the fascinating things about identity is that it is flexible, malleable, and adaptive to current circumstances.  [17:08] Group-based divisions might arise by politics, fights over resources, or major political differences.  [18:26] Groups are a tremendously useful tool for human beings. They are fundamental to our survival. Humans have succeeded by getting together.  [21:35] In many corporate situations you have different divisions and units and people confirm identities at that subgroup level. People can get a lot of sense of connection and be very motivated to do well on behalf of their subgroup.  [22:25] Identities are often multi-leveled. If you shift their focus from their lower-level identity to their higher level and especially if you create conditions where they need to work together it can bring them together.  [23:50] You need to create the conditions by which people can see themselves as part of something larger than their immediate sub-group. People need to see that there is an organizational identity.  [25:11] We need to incentivize collective identity instead of individual identities. Setting universal goals can also help.  [28:07] “Dissent is quite hard and people only do it because they care deeply about a group.”  [29:59] Both the people who are the most likely to conform to group norms most of the time are also the most likely to dissent when they see something as problematic or needing change in their group. This is because they care a lot.  [30:50] To speak out is to take a risk and to take that risk is that you need to have some level of identification and care about the group. [32:24] You do want a culture where the people that are strongly identified with the group do feel like they can speak up when they see something as problematic or see something that has the possibility of change or improvement.  [32:53] A psychologically safe environment is one where people feel comfortable speaking up and speaking out, being critical, and being divergent. They feel comfortable because they know it will be okay.  [34:03] You want an organization where your people are identified and they really value the collective goals but they are engaging with them creatively.  [35:24] If you are trying to cultivate a group where people can share their ideas and can have better ideas than you, it is really important that you don’t squash them even when they are not good ideas.  [36:49] As a boss, take time to reflect on what you are good at. Validating yourself and the contributions you make to free you up to be less threatened with other people bring good things to the table as well.  [38:27] A fundamental task of a leader is to manage the social identities of the people they are leading. [39:37] As a boss you have to be careful to not engage in behaviors that differentiate you too much from the group because then you no longer seem like one of us and you are not going to be followed as energetically or enthusiastically.  [41:24] Consider how to manage this group’s identity so people understand what we are collectively trying to achieve and create a level of solidarity.  [42:39] As you rise up in leadership positions it does oftentimes require a total shift in orientation.  [45:23] Melina shares her closing thoughts.  [46:02] Dissenters care so much that they are unwilling to let the little things slide that they think are reflecting badly on the whole group. They care so much that they will stand up against the herd and encourage change. [47:50] Check out Melina’s Setting Brainy Goals course and shop at The Brainy Business shop for that perfect brainy gift. Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: The Power of Us: Harnessing Our Shared Identities to Improve Performance, Increase Cooperation, and Promote Social Harmony by Jay Van Bavel & Dominic Packer Influence, New and Expanded: The Psychology of Persuasion by Robert Cialdini A More Beautiful Question: The Power of Inquiry to Spark Breakthrough Ideas by Warren Berger Connect with Dominic:  Power of Us Website Dominic on Twitter Power of Us Book on Twitter Top recommended next episode: Biases Toward Others – Including Group (episode 46) Already heard that one? Try one of these:  Overview of Personal Biases (episode 45) Herding (episode 19) Social Proof (episode 87) The Science of Opinions, with Dr. Andy Luttrell (episode 173) Dr. Robert Cialdini and the (Now!) 7 Principles of Persuasion (episode 157) Incentives – The “N” In NUDGES (episode 36) Only 1% of People Blow the Whistle at Work—How to Fix That, with Nuala Walsh (episode 153) Priming (episode 18) Other important links:  The Power of Us Newsletter Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

A company's success nowadays is so reliant upon pitching and getting media coverage. Having a credible source say positive things about you and your company can be pivotal when it comes to whether your brand is going to be seen or not. That is exactly why this episode of The Brainy Business is dedicated to giving you some concise tips on how to use behavioral economics to pitch your brand. I know pitching yourself can feel awkward, but when you understand the brain science it doesn't have to be, especially if you follow my tips! I discuss different brain biases such as social proof, authority bias, familiarity bias, and really focus on availability bias. Availability bias is critical to pitching success. You can take advantage of it by predicting and paying attention to trends and finding a way to offer people a fresh perspective on them. We close with three key points to keep in mind when pitching: (1) keep it short (2) be happy with your language and (3) follow directions. This and so much more in this episode, which will help you use behavioral economics to successfully pitch yourself and your business, so listen now... Show Notes: [00:06] In today’s episode, I talk about using brain science to successfully pitch to media. [02:22] Pitching yourself can be awkward and uncomfortable, and there are brain biases that can explain why that is. Understanding them can help you turn them around and use them to your advantage. [05:05] There is good news – pitching doesn't have to be so hard if you use my tips! [07:20] I explain why media coverage and pitching are so important, beginning with social proof. [08:43] Authority bias leads us to believing that anything that the news or media reports is true or else it wouldn't be featured. [09:32] Familiarity bias makes us lean toward things that we already know or know of. [10:26] The final (and I would argue, most important) brain bias that is to your benefit when pitching is availability bias. [12:48] One of my favorite examples of availability bias is how travel to Norway drastically increased following the release of Disney's movie Frozen! [14:20] In order to take advantage of availability bias, you need to predict trends and offer something unique in relation to them. [16:30] Pitching to reporters can be stressful, but remember that reporters are people doing a job. You can be a resource to them they are thankful for if you connect with them properly. [19:06] A simple and easy habit you can create to make you a master at pitching by taking advantage of availability bias. [21:55] Recognize where you fit and where you can fill in gaps. [24:23] Remember to take advantage of familiarity bias! Get people to know who you are and like you before you ask for anything [25:41] I recommend signing up for HARO (Help a Reporter Out). [27:10] It's important to remember that not all of your pitches will land, but that only makes it that much more rewarding when they do. [27:43] I give you some key tips to keep in mind: (1) keep your pitch short and sweet, (2) be sure that you're satisfied with how your pitch is worded, and (3) follow directions that reporters put into their requests and do what they ask. [29:30] A quick and simple summary of all the tips in the episode. [31:03] Registration is now open for my Setting Brainy Goals course! Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show. I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: Influence, New and Expanded: The Psychology of Persuasion, by Robert B Cialdini PhD Presuasion, by Robert B. Cialdini, PhD You’re Invited, by Jon Levy The Hype Handbook, by Michael F. Schein The Speed of Trust, Stephen M.R. Covey Top recommended next episode: Availability Bias (episode 15) Already heard that one? Try these: Familiarity Bias (episode 149) Confirmation Bias (episode 102) Framing (episode 16) Priming (episode 18) Optimism Bias (episode 34) Social Proof (episode 87) Reciprocity (episode 23) Herding (episode 19) Focusing Illusion (episode 89) Prefactual Thinking (episode 71) Bikeshedding (episode 99) Survivorship Bias (episode 110) Dr. Robert Cialdini and the (Now!) 7 Principles of Persuasion (episode 157) Other Important Links: HARO - Help A Reporter Out Certificate in Applied Behavioral Economics at Texas A&M Check out Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia. Also, be sure to register for her upcoming Setting Brainy Goals course!

Have you ever had a disruption in your routine – moving to a new house, taking a new route to work – and found yourself exhausted every day?  This is common when our habits are upended (the subconscious can’t use its rules anymore so your conscious is having to do a lot more work!). And while it may feel annoying, this is also a great opportunity to innovate and change your life for the better.  Today, I’m joined by Adam Hansen, VP of behavioral innovation at Ideas To Go and coauthor of Outsmart Your Instincts who happened to be in the midst of a move, so we talk about how to reframe an annoying disruption in habits to make it work for you. We also discuss the curse of knowledge and how it impacts businesses, risks of omission versus risks of commission, and other fun behavioral goodness sprinkled throughout (including my new favorite term of being an “omnivore of information”). Listen now... Show Notes: [00:07] In today’s episode, I’m excited to introduce you to Adam Hansen, VP of behavioral innovation at Ideas To Go and coauthor of Outsmart Your Instincts. [03:18] Adam shares about himself and his background. He always knew that innovation would be part of his career.  [05:18] When working on the book, they started looking at all the cognitive biases to figure out which ones were causing most of the mayhem in innovation.  [06:16] If you adopt the behavioral innovation approach, you can see three to four times improvement in performance and quality of ideas very early on in innovation. You can get to better ideas faster.  [09:01] All of the thousands of small decisions we make every day that have been automated are lost when you move. Each little thing is so minor that we don’t realize what the cumulative effect of all those small decisions is.  [10:02] It is important for us to automate everything we can.  [12:19] It is impossible for us to place ourselves fully back in the shoes of our first-time clients. Our version of dumbing things down to meet them where they are is still going to be more advanced than where we need to get to. We can work on this by following up with first-time clients and asking what you could have done better.  [13:46] There is so much more jargon in your business than you think there is. [16:10] Our need for tangibility is much greater than we assume. Most people need help to break down abstraction. The more tangible you can be the better.  [18:13] The curse of knowledge is the idea that once you become knowledgeable in a given area, you can't unknow what you know and you can’t fully place yourself back in the shoes of the subject.  [23:27] Negativity Bias is the idea from our ancestors of thinking of all novelty as threat and not opportunity.  [25:12] Especially in innovation, we need to be as opportunity minded as possible. We need to be aware of threats and take smart action to minimize and mitigate those threats.  [27:43] When we are in moments of threat, to still be able to take swift decisive action is fantastic (and sometimes life-saving!)  [28:29] The research shows that negativity can appear super profound. Too often we are shooting down ideas and not coming up with alternatives. That is not progress.  [30:31] We are predisposed to go toward the negative any time a new idea comes up.  [31:38] The more you can value ideas early on for their provocative value rather than for their immediate merits the better. Then you are in a better frame of mind to take on the negatives.  [33:54] When you approach challenges to problems in this way, there is real value. The language is brilliant, priming to get people to deal with problems and concerns in a much better way.  [35:10] If you are an optimistic person it doesn’t mean that you don’t have a negativity bias and pessimistic people still have optimism bias.  [36:44] Go in understanding that there will be some differences and then the task becomes “How do we get the most out of the differences?” The more you can approach differences with curiosity than defensiveness...the better.  [37:48] Curiosity is very smart and super adaptive. Be curious even when it is hard to be curious.  [39:07] Curiosity kills the cat, satisfaction brought it back. (Did you know there was more to that saying?!) [41:49] It is hard to gather data on what you don’t do.  [43:42] Every year to 18 months every person should “fire themselves.” If you fire yourself and come into your job as if you had new eyes...what would you do differently? When you start a new job you are looking for all these opportunities of growth and then you become stagnant.  [45:07] We need to be more intentional and realize we can choose better because we have all these nonconscious instincts so we can choose otherwise.  [46:49] Meaning is created dialogically not monologically.  [47:35] Melina shares her closing thoughts.  [47:42] One of Melina’s favorite things is this idea of being an “omnivore of information.” It’s such a great way to think about learning and essentially devouring all kinds of topics from various origins. [50:07] Melina’s award-winning first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia.  Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: Outsmart Your Instincts: How The Behavioral Innovation Approach Drives Your Company Forward, by Adam Hansen Good Habits, Bad Habits: The Science of Making Positive Changes That Stick, by Wendy Wood How To Change, by Katy Milkman Connect with Adam:  Ideas To Go Adam on Twitter Past Episodes & Other Important Links:  Top recommended next episode: Good Habits, Bad Habits: an Interview with Wendy Wood (episode 127) Already heard that one? Try these:  Availability Bias (episode 15) Familiarity Bias (episode 149)   Status Quo Bias (episode 142) Confirmation Bias (episode 102) Framing (episode 16) Stressed and Overcommitted? Tips to Tackle Planning Fallacy (episode 114) 95% Of Decisions Are Habitual – Which Side Is Your Business On? (episode 21) Priming (episode 18) How To Change, an Interview with Katy Milkman (episode 151) Curse of Knowledge - coming soon! Negativity Bias - coming soon! Risk of Omission vs. Risk of Commission - coming soon! Check out Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Back on episode 111, I was joined by Dr. Gleb Tsipursky, CEO of Disaster Avoidance Experts discussing his book “Never Go With Your Gut.” When Gleb reached out to let me know that he has a new book on helping companies think through and prepare for returning to the office, including the cognitive biases that can impact this decision-making process for people in business, I knew I had to have him back for another conversation. This specific topic is incredibly relevant right now, but there is also an incredible amount of insight Gleb provides about leadership’s collective cognitive biases that absolutely relate to other big strategic decisions as well. As you’ll hear in the conversation today, beyond his background knowledge of behavioral science and those concepts, Gleb interviewed and has done work with more than a dozen companies and helped them with their plans to return to the office. His insights can help you to learn from their mistakes and best practices as you work on your own plan. Whether you are looking to keep a fully remote workforce, have everyone back in the office, a hybrid approach, or if you aren’t sure yet, this episode is for you.  Show Notes: [00:07] In today’s episode I’m delighted to have Dr. Gleb Tsipursky back with us to share about how to avoid disasters when returning to the office. [01:45] His insights can help you to learn from their mistakes and best practices as you work on your own plan. [03:40] Gleb shares about himself and his background. His background is in decision-making and risk management.  [06:02] Most recently he has been helping companies return to the office most effectively and prepare for the future of work.  [08:37] People are your main source of competitive advantage. What do your current people want? What do your potential hires want? [10:34] If your people are your main source of competitive advantage, wouldn’t you think you would want to know what kind of things they want to do in returning to the office? It is their future after all.  [11:12] The surveys tell us that the future is very much hybrid: 85% of people in various surveys want a hybrid or full-time remote option.  [14:13] People report higher productivity as well as much higher happiness and well-being when they are working from home.  [16:08] There are a lot of advantages to having substantial remote work and disadvantages to forcing people back into the office.  [17:28] Your primary consideration should be your people. Then you can look at how many usages you are having of your location.  [20:14] Once you decide on occupancy, you can get rid of some of your unused space.  [21:25] You need to transform much of your existing space into a collaborative space.  [22:52] Status quo bias is one of the biggest problems here. The status quo bias refers to the fact that we prefer things to remain stable, as they were, and the right way.  [24:20] Never go with your gut (learn more about this in Gleb’s book of the same name, link below).  [26:21] Another related bias to this problem is anchoring. We tend to be anchored to the initial information that we have.  [28:08] Confirmation bias is one of the biggest problems that we have in terms of the information we gather.   [30:50] You want to make sure to plan for the possibilities of other variants down the road.  [32:26] You want to strategically adapt to the virtual format.  [35:38] Two dynamics for creating serendipitous conversions in virtual settings are innovation and collaboration.  [37:40] Companies need to have a channel for serendipitous idea generation for each team. Then other people see the comment and then they comment back and then that transforms into a really great conversation that you can take into brainstorming.  [39:48] Traditional brainstorming has a number of advantages and some problems.  [41:31] It helps to have virtual brainstorming instead. Virtual brainstorming involves people separately typing into a digital spreadsheet anonymously.  [43:30] This has been shown to greatly improve the number and quality of ideas generated.  [44:51] How can we make this something amazing versus something we are stuck with?  [46:42] When you are able to look at the opportunity, you are able to beat out your competitors.  [47:58] We can actually successfully work remotely. It is a fundamental transition in how we think and approach the world.  [49:18] You need to adopt best practices for hybrid and remote settings.  [50:52] Melina shares her closing thoughts. [53:50] The important thing to keep in mind, much like Gleb’s advice for recreating serendipitous moments online or doing virtual brainstorming, is that you can’t allow yourself to be stuck by the constraints of how the benefit was generated before. [55:41] Melina’s award-winning first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia.  Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: Never Go With Your Gut: How Pioneering Leaders Make the Best Decisions and Avoid Business Disasters (Avoid Terrible Advice, Cognitive Biases, and Poor Decisions) By Gleb Tsipursky You're Invited: The Art and Science of Cultivating Influence By Jon Levy A More Beautiful Question: The Power of Inquiry to Spark Breakthrough Ideas By Warren Berger Connect with Gleb:  Disaster Avoidance Experts Returning to the Office and Leading Hybrid and Remote Teams: A Manual on Benchmarking to Best Practices for Competitive Advantage Past Episodes & Other Important Links:  Episode 126: The Most Important Step in Applying Behavioral Economics: Understanding the Problem Episode 111: Avoiding Everyday Work Disasters, an Interview with Dr. Gleb Tsipursky Episode 16: Framing: How You Say Things Matter More Than What You’re Saying: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 107: How to Have Difficult Conversations About Race & Inequality: Interview with Kwame Christian Episode 142: Status Quo Bias: Why Change Feels Terrifying, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 11: Anchoring & Adjustment: The 1 Word That Increased Sales 38%: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 102: Confirmation Bias: How Your Subconscious Beliefs Shape Your Experiences (A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode)Confirmation Bias Episode 114: Stressed and Overcommitted? Tips to Tackle Planning Fallacy, a behavioral economics foundations episode Episode 150: Using Behavioral Science to Build Connections, an interview with Jon Levy, author of You’re Invited Episode 169: The Science of Cool, with Dr. Troy Campbell Functional Fixedness - coming soon! False Consensus Effect - coming soon! Illusion of Control - coming soon! Not Invented Here Syndrome - coming soon! Ostrich Effect - coming soon! Normalcy Bias - coming soon! Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

A few months ago, in episode 162 you got to hear from Leidy Klotz about his fantastic new book Subtract, which is based on this question of why we humans look to add first when often subtracting can be a better option. It is a little bit of minimalism/essentialism and a really great episode to help people overcome loss aversion and see that, as he says, “less is not a loss,” such a cool insight. Anyway, while he and I were doing our pre and post-interview chat, he mentioned that his friend and colleague Eric Johnson had a book coming out soon called The Elements of Choice and that I should talk with him about it, so here we are. Dr. Johnson is not a newbie to the space by any means, as you will hear in the interview. He has had the opportunity to work and train with some of the most notable names in the field, including Herbert Simon, Amos Tversky, as well as his friends Richard Thaler and Cass Sunstein. He is the Norman Eig Professor of Business and the Director of the Center for Decision Sciences at Columbia Business School. He has been the president of both the Society for Judgment and Decision Making and the Society for Neuroeconomics. He has decades of experience and definitely knows his stuff, which is one of the many reasons I was so honored to chat with him and share the conversation with you.  Show Notes: [00:07] In today’s episode I’m introducing you to Dr. Eric J. Johnson, author of the brand new book, The Elements of Choice. [03:57] Eric shares his background and how he got into the field. His research has always been about helping people make choices and how the way we present information to them affects their choices.  [05:40] He was fascinated with the choices he observed people making.  [07:06] Eric shares research from a former student of his. She implemented the health records systems at a major New York hospital.  [09:18] Memory played an important role in the doctor’s behavior in her research. [11:31] When you put in the time to plan the architecture upfront, the actual intention itself can be very small. Designers often have more influence than they realize. [12:42] He shares his research about taking different doors at the Copenhagen airport. [14:06] Little bits of effort at the beginning of the decision have an influence throughout the course of the decision. Choice architecture usually works by favoring one path over another.  [16:10] If I know exactly what you want I would give you just one option, but the person making the choice knows a lot about themselves so they often know more about what they want.   [18:10] There is a trade-off between how much you are asking of people (in terms of deciding) and how much variety you need to give them so they can find the option that is best for them.  [20:45] Choice is not determined by myself and my preferences alone.  [21:38] We are all designers all the time.  [23:14] Order will have an influence depending on your medium. There are many other things as a designer to think about also.  [24:50] Defaults are powerful. Eric and Dan Goldstein researched defaults in organ donations.  [27:07] Not all situations are the same, so you really need to look across all the studies and understand your own situation and context.  [28:44] Our preferences aren’t written in stone. We have many preferences. Depending on what comes to mind, I might make different choices.  [29:36] Eric shares one of his favorite studies where they ask people about climate change and would they pay a carbon tax (or carbon offset) to fight climate change.  [32:26] One study is not enough to actually build a science. We need to do cross studies. [35:16] Eric shares how choice architecture can affect COVID vaccinations.  [38:00] Defaults work because they endow you with the option. You think less about the disadvantages. [39:26] The decisions of our privacy and cookies are decisions we make multiple times a day.  [40:32] Choice architecture and designers have amazing influence. Hopefully, people will design in ways they want to be designed to.  [41:46] Melina shares a study about trying to influence people to take the stairs instead of riding the elevator.  [43:31] Defaults are everywhere. They save us effort by not having to make a decision every time.   [46:16] Melina shares her closing thoughts. [47:44] The more you know about someone, the fewer choices you can provide to them. When you have no idea who your customer is – what they like, what the context is of them finding you, why they are there, what needs they are looking to fill or problems they need to solve, you then have to present a whole bunch of choices, which can make it harder for them to make a decision. [50:33] Melina’s award-winning first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia. Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode:   The Elements of Choice: Why the Way We Decide Matters By Eric J. Johnson Subtract: The Untapped Science of Less By Leidy Klotz How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be By Katy Milkman Nudge: Improving Decisions About Health, Wealth, and Happiness By Richard Thaler and Cass Sunstein The Paradox of Choice: Why More Is Less By Barry Schwartz Connect with Eric:  Eric’s Website Eric on Twitter Past Episodes & Other Important Links:  Episode 162: Do You Subtract Enough? An interview with Dr. Leidy Klotz Episode 151: How To Change, an interview Dr. Katy Milkman Episode 35: NUDGES & Choice Architecture: Introducing Nobel-Winning Concepts: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 171: Paradox of Choice: Why More is Less, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 38: Defaults: The “D” in NUDGES: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 20: Defaults: Why The Pre-Selected Choice Wins More Often Than Not: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 61: Color Theory: When It Comes To Color, This 1 Thing Matters More Than Anything Else Episode 18: Priming: Why You Should Never Have A Difficult Conversation With Someone Holding An Iced Coffee: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 16: Framing: How You Say Things Matter More Than What You’re Saying: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 36: Incentives – The “N” In NUDGES: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 139: Endowment Effect: Why We Like Our Stuff More, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Functional Fixedness - coming soon! False Consensus Effect - coming soon! Illusion of Control - coming soon! Not Invented Here Syndrome - coming soon! Ostrich Effect - coming soon! Normalcy Bias - coming soon! Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today, I am very excited to introduce you to Dr. Andy Luttrell, a social psychologist who has (at least so far) devoted his career to understanding people’s opinions. You know I love a good question, and he is mostly curious about those opinions people hold onto really tightly and can’t seem to let go of. As he asks on his website, “Why do we hold some views that define us and others that we’re happy to change?”  Such an interesting topic, and I am excited to let you hear some of his findings on the science of opinions and how that ties in with persuasion in our conversation today.  Show Notes: [00:06] In today’s episode I’m excited to introduce you to Dr. Andy Luttrell, professor and host of the Opinion Science Podcast. [03:15] Andy, a social psychologist, shares about himself and his background.  [05:45] In some cultures, our view of ourselves is ever changing. Others are more fixed. [08:17] Your audience is going to have its own way that it prefers to navigate certain questions. The way you present yourself and your brand image, or the messages you communicate with ought to take that audience’s preference into account.  [09:56] Oftentimes, we have to pick what works for our brand and just go with it.  [10:41] If someone sees their stance as rooted in morality, they are often not going to budge.  [11:18] If the message matches the kind of opinion the audience already has, it is going to go further.  [12:49] When we are trying to talk about these moral issues, sometimes we feel like we want to retreat from talking about morals, but that is exactly the dimension that the audience cares about (and has proven to be more persuasive).  [14:54] Are logical arguments the most persuasive or are emotional arguments the most persuasive? It depends on who you are talking to.  [15:56] Most people are not only logical or emotional people. It also depends on the context of what you are talking about.  [17:20] There are all sorts of ways personality variables can come into play with the persuasion process.  [18:34] Anyone has the potential to change their mind. Some personality variables can have to do with one's willingness to engage with certain ideas.  [20:20] Some research shows that we can sell our products or ideas framed in terms of the personality traits that define you best and that is going to have more leverage.  [21:34] The personality of the person you are trying to influence is going to determine which message is going to be most impactful.  [23:29] If we are framing something in terms of a very political audience and the wrong person comes across it, that might actually tarnish the image or backfire. If you are working in a sensitive space, be aware.  [25:45] We have this foundational understanding of persuasion that goes back to the 40’s.  [26:07] Persuasion is at the heart of what we do every day. It doesn’t feel like we are trying to constantly influence the people around us, but we are talking about our opinions almost all the time.  [27:06] There are always going to be some growing pains in the application process.  [29:09] We can have good guesses but we don’t have specificity.  [31:10] If you run the same simulation a dozen times it is not going to go exactly the same in each one. There is a bunch of stuff you can never really account for.  [32:26] You run the risk of chasing things that are not relevant if you have too much to account for.  [33:40] Persuasion is about changing your evaluation of something.  [35:14] A strong opinion is one that people say they will not change and it will be the thing that guides the decisions they make.  [37:22] One place confidence comes from is consensus. If we think most people hold the same opinion, we become confident in it (for better or worse).  [39:46] Strength is an important part of the equation in getting people from one side to another.  [40:19] One interesting way people have looked at persuasion is through self affirmation.  [41:29] You are perfect with room for improvement.  [43:27] Melina shares her closing thoughts. [45:13] Melina’s award-winning first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia.  Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode:   Influence, New and Expanded: The Psychology of Persuasion By Robert Cialdini Finding Confidence in Conflict: How to Negotiate Anything and Live Your Best Life By Kwame Christian Influence PEOPLE: Powerful Everyday Opportunities to Persuade that are Lasting and Ethical By Brian Ahearn Marketing to Mindstates: The Practical Guide to Applying Behavior Design to Research and Marketing By Will Leach How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be By Katy Milkman Connect with Andy:  Andy’s Website Opinion Science Podcast Opinion Science Podcast on Twitter Past Episodes & Other Important Links:  A megastudy of text-based nudges encouraging patients to get vaccinated at an upcoming doctor’s appointment Episode 146: Using Anchoring in Negotiations, an Interview with Kwame Christian Episode 107: How to Have Difficult Conversations About Race & Inequality: Interview with Kwame Christian Episode 104: How To Ethically Influence People: Interview with Author Brian Ahearn Episode 157: Dr. Robert Cialdini and the (Now!) 7 Principles of Persuasion Episode 88: Marketing to Mindstates: A Discussion With Author, Will Leach Episode 102: Confirmation Bias: How Your Subconscious Beliefs Shape Your Experiences (A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode) Episode 142: Status Quo Bias: Why Change Feels Terrifying, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 9: Loss Aversion: Why Getting New Stuff Is Not The Same: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 35: NUDGES & Choice Architecture: Introducing Nobel-Winning Concepts: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 16: Framing: How You Say Things Matter More Than What You’re Saying: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 18: Priming: Why You Should Never Have A Difficult Conversation With Someone Holding An Iced Coffee: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 19: Herding: Come On And Listen…Everyone Else Is Doing It: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 87: Social Proof: How to Use Herding to Boost Engagement and Sales Episode 151: How To Change, an interview Dr. Katy Milkman Cognitive Dissonance - coming soon! Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Back on episode 160, I was joined by Dr. Matt Johnson to discuss his book Blindsight and the work he and his counterpart were doing at Pop Neuro. Today, that counterpart, Prince Ghuman, is here to expand on that conversation and discuss some more amazing work.  One of the things I loved in the book, and that Prince and I really expanded on today, is why we like the things we like. Some of what we discuss today tie back to my recent interview with Dr. Troy Campbell in episode 169 on the Science of Cool. It was a much-loved episode and I expect similar high praise from today’s conversation! Show Notes: [00:06] In today’s episode I’m excited to introduce you to Prince Ghuman, coauthor of Blindsight. [02:57] Prince Ghuman shares about himself, his background, and how he got into the world of behavioral science and marketing. He is an author and professor.  [05:11] Prince and Matt are founders of Pop Neuro where they teach marketers how to ethically apply neuroscience to marketing.  [06:07] One of the things lacking in the marketing curriculum is a heavier emphasis on neuroscience and psych.  [07:05] If we are marketers, we are fundamentally students of human behavior and human psychology.  [09:37] The principle piece is as important if not more important than the traditional neuroscience imaging techniques.  [11:38] He would love for there to be one person on each marketing team that specializes in neuromarketing principles because, at the end of the day, marketers want to create good marketing and good brand experiences. Consumers also want to be charmed by brands, products, and experiences.  [13:31] Cross-functional teams are the answer. Having one neuromarketer on every marketing team is the bare minimum. Every marketing position should understand behavioral science.  [16:03] The next operating system of marketing is more deeply scientific.  [17:06] The more we philosophically touch and experience something, the more we are likely to prefer it.  [17:50] We like things that are different because we like novelty, and we like things that are similar because we like the safety of similar things. If something is too new it hurts adoption. If something is too safe it hurts adoption. It needs to be somewhere between new and safe. [18:48] Sandwiching something new in between two familiar things helps bump up the likability.  [19:48] Early adopters have a higher acceptance of an imbalance of new and safe when it is tilted towards new. Late adopters are tilted towards safety.  [22:43] When Oreo brings out new cookies, it gets them back on your radar even if you don’t try the new types.  [23:27] Listener Question! Attention is based on the brain's statistical learning tendency. Our brains are also taking into account and picking up on patterns.  [26:04] Unpredictability gives you a bigger hit of dopamine. Unpredictability hits the reward center a lot harder. The brain’s pattern-seeking behavior primarily happens behind the scenes. It just drives a lot of what we do.  [28:27] It is called the “pursuit of happiness” because it is the pursuit that gives us the most amount of happiness, not the achievement of happiness.  [30:10] Unpredictability works to increase engagement.  [32:59] Today’s new thing that you hate is replacing something that was new once (and that you hated then).  [35:25] As much as we want to point a finger at companies that are using digital products to model behavior, we also have to look at ourselves. Until we decide to kick our addiction to “free” it is going to be really hard to kick our addiction to Instagram.  [37:48] For marketers, the challenge is to understand neuroscience and psychology throughout the entire marketing process so we can create better products, brands, and experiences.  [39:01] The answer to bad marketing isn’t no marketing. It is better marketing. Neuroscience is the way to do it.  [41:46] Melina shares her closing thoughts. [43:54] Melina’s award-winning first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia.  Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode:   Blindsight: The (Mostly) Hidden Ways Marketing Reshapes Our Brains By Matt Johnson and Prince Ghuman Neurobranding: Strategies for shaping consumer behavior By Peter Steidl   Thinking, Fast and Slow By Daniel Kahneman A More Beautiful Question: The Power of Inquiry to Spark Breakthrough Ideas By Warren Berger The Life-Saving Skill of Story: The Life-Saving Skill of Story By Michelle Auerbach The Tipping Point: How Little Things Can Make a Big Difference By Malcolm Gladwell Crossing the Chasm, 3rd Edition: Marketing and Selling Disruptive Products to Mainstream Customers By Geoffrey Moore Hooked: How to Build Habit-Forming Products By Nir Eyal Connect with Prince:  Pop Neuro Past Episodes & Other Important Links:  We Asked: Why Does Oreo Keep Releasing New Flavors? Episode 144: Disney: A Behavioral Economics Analysis Episode 160: Neuroscience and Psychology in the Business World, An Interview with Matt Johnson Episode 15: Availability: Why People Are More Likely To Get Flood Insurance Right After a Flood: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 149: Familiarity Bias: Why the Devil You Know Feels Safer Than the Devil You Don’t, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 145: The Power of Story, an Interview with Dr. Michelle Auerbach Episode 12: Relativity: The Brain Can’t Value One-Off Items: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 123: Get Your D.O.S.E. of Brain Chemicals, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 21: Habits: 95% Of Decisions Are Habitual – Which Side Is Your Business On?: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 78: How to Become Indistractible, Interview With Author Nir Eyal Mere Exposure Effect - coming soon! Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

I know you have a lot of options for what to listen to, and I’m glad you chose The Brainy Business. Especially because (as you’ll hear about on today’s episode), due to the paradox of choice, having too many options and decisions can leave people paralyzed instead of empowered. That paralysis can make it so people don’t make any decision at all, so you stick with the status quo of scrolling Instagram or playing a game on your phone. With over 2 million podcasts out there to compete with (plus all the YouTube channels, Netflix, and other streaming services, music options like Spotify and Pandora), plus games and email, and...well you get the idea...There are a lot of options out there that could have made tuning in a very complicated choice. In today’s episode, I will tell you all about the paradox of choice: what it is, and why it matters for you in life and in business (including some tips for creating and presenting options to your current and potential customers). Show Notes: [00:06] Today’s behavioral economics foundations episode is about the paradox of choice. [03:02] As I mentioned in the introduction, the paradox of choice is a term and concept popularized by Barry Schwartz, whose book and popular TED talk have been shared around the world. [04:42] When presented with too many choices (like we have in most societies today) people become paralyzed, stressed, and feel stuck. It can cause mental anguish and regret. Some choices are good, but too much and we are definitely worse off. [05:24] The really important thing to know is that adding some choice is important. Because we humans can’t value one-off items, having at least some choice and comparison helps us to make a decision and feel good about it, but too many and we get overwhelmed. [07:15] When there are too many choices, our brains get overloaded. [09:41] It is easier to stick with what we have always done than to look for something that may or may not be better.  [11:42] Your subconscious is dealing with this sort of letdown constantly. It can get very taxing over time and it’s no wonder our brains rebel at the idea of evaluating too many options. [13:14] In a world where there is always another option, always a list of potential matches and the feeling that (much like the pair of jeans) perfection is “just one search away”...it can be hard to settle even when the choice is something you would be incredibly happy with. That constant thought of “what if” can be too much for many to bear. [13:53] Anticipated regret can have a huge impact on behavior. We want to choose wisely and, frustratingly, this pursuit of perfection (or even just a little bit better) can cause us to make worse decisions. [15:02] The important thing to know is that while it seems like lots of choice and infinite options would make us happier (increasing our freedom and wellbeing to use the terms from earlier) that just isn’t how it works. [17:12] A maximizer is always looking for the best of the best. They want to make sure that they choose whatever is objectively the best there is every single time. That anyone else could look at and know that it is conclusively “the best choice”. [17:28] Satisficers are people who find something that is “good enough” and feel satisfied with that choice. Once satisficers find something they are happy with, they are good to go and don’t necessarily dwell on “what might have been” too much. Even if there was a better option out there you could have made, you are subjectively happy and therefore at peace with the decision. [20:04] For maximizers (like my husband), these details are vital pieces of information needed to make a decision, and for satisficers (like me), it is just too much to think about. [22:45] The first tip is to choose when to choose. If you only save the big evaluation for the really important stuff, it will help you have that mental capacity when you need it and not be so stressed and overwhelmed with the small stuff. [24:07] Don’t waste a bunch of mental energy on decisions that don’t matter. Be happy with good enough whenever you can, so you can have more mental energy when you need it. [24:22] The next tip, which is to become a chooser, not a picker. [25:27] The next tip is to satisfice more and maximize less. As you just heard, satisficers are happier, less stressed, less regretful, and so much more. Good enough is often good enough. [25:58] Think about the costs of missed opportunities. In short, you should look for the balance of thinking of missed opportunities. [26:20] Next is to make your decisions nonreversible. If you aren’t able to “what if” you are more likely to be happier with a choice you made because you won’t dwell on it. [26:31] Practice an attitude of gratitude. There are lots of studies that find we are happier and better off when we appreciate what we have. Be grateful for everything you have in your life [27:05] Regret less. If you don’t think about choices you have made after the fact and don’t allow regret to control you, it will allow you to be happier overall. [27:19] Anticipate adaptation. We naturally adapt to any situation – plan accordingly to avoid constantly chasing the next high. [27:53] Control expectations. When there are too many choices, the expectations for something to be perfect are far too high, and because nothing can really live up to that standard, you end up with a recipe for always being disappointed with items not meeting unrealistic expectations [28:21] Curtail social comparison. What is your happiness worth and how do things change if you add that into your evaluation? Eliminating social comparisons can help with that. [29:11] His last tip is to learn to embrace constraints. Limiting options and reducing possible choices can help you to fulfill these other tips on the list. Embrace the idea of constraints and set up some firm rules for yourself to follow around choice. You will be surprised about how they help your mental state. [30:30] NOW, my tips for business applications (which are different than on an individual level. First, is to know that people are generally overwhelmed with all the decisions they are having to make every day. [31:00] You also want to really consider what choice they are making and what the defaults are. [33:15] When someone asks for your recommendation – give it, and don’t provide more than two options. Be enthusiastic about it, explaining a little of why you like it to prime them for excitement. [34:56] To summarize, you are going to limit the options you present and show that you are the expert (and did the heavy lifting for them) by making recommendations and helping work with those herding instincts by including some social proof. [35:25] If you implement your social proof and relativity and structure the decision well, it can make a decision easier without people getting so overwhelmed that they walk out. They can feel like there are a lot of options, but you can still nudge and guide them along the way to reduce the number of decisions and make them easier. I’m calling this the “illusion of choice.” [37:42] Consider the customer experience – who is searching? What problem are they solving? What is the best solution? How can you make it obvious that it is the best choice for most people to help them decide? [39:17] Melina’s award-winning first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia. Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: The Paradox of Choice: Why More Is Less, Revised Edition By Barry Schwartz You're Invited: The Art and Science of Cultivating Influence By Jon Levy Past Episodes & Other Important Links:  The Paradox of Choice: Ted Talk with Barry Schwartz The Paradox of Choice, Barry Schwartz The Paradox of Choice When Choice is Demotivating: Can One Desire Too Much of a Good Thing? More Isn’t Always Better Episode 35: NUDGES & Choice Architecture: Introducing Nobel-Winning Concepts: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 32: The Overwhelmed Brain and Its Impact on Decision Making Episode 76: The Brainy Benefits of Gratitude Episode 68: Counterfactual Thinking: Why We ‘What If’ And ‘If Only’ (A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode) Episode 71: Prefactual Thinking: How to Turn “What If” Into “Why Not” – Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode 150: Using Behavioral Science to Build Connections, an interview with Jon Levy, author of You’re Invited Episode 12: Relativity: The Brain Can’t Value One-Off Items: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 11: Anchoring & Adjustment: The 1 Word That Increased Sales 38%: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 60: Surprise and Delight Episode 19: Herding: Come On And Listen…Everyone Else Is Doing It: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 87: Social Proof: How to Use Herding to Boost Engagement and Sales Regret Aversion (coming soon, episode TBD) Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

A few weeks ago, I had the honor of being a speaker at Greenbook’s IIEX Behavior Conference, an amazing event that brings people together from around the world to talk about behavior and insights and so much more. My piece of this event was doing a live podcast interview with Dr. Ingrid Nieuwenhuis for the session called When Machine Learning Meets Neuroscience.  A couple of weeks ago, Sam Albert joined me to discuss AI and its role in behavioral science, and this conversation with Ingrid was so fantastic and really building on that. I was delighted when the team at Greenbook said I could share this conversation here with you on The Brainy Business. This is the exact audio from that conference, and if you want to see it in video form, it will be shared via my free global community, the BE Thoughtful Revolution when the episode airs.  Show Notes: [00:06] In today’s episode I’m thrilled to introduce you to Dr. Ingrid Nieuwenhuis, head of science at Alpha.One. [00:56] My piece at Greenbook’s IIEX Behavior Conference was a live podcast interview with Dr. Ingrid Nieuwenhuis for the session called When Machine Learning Meets Neuroscience.  [03:21] Ingrid shares about herself, her background in neuroscience, and what she does as head of science at Alpha.One. She is trained as a neuroscientist. [05:03] After a whole academic career, she joined a start-up company where she used similar techniques to measure consumers’ responses. Then she moved to New York and worked with the marketing department at Facebook. After ten years, she moved back to the Netherlands and joined Alpha.One. [07:49] Ingrid has done amazing work over her career.  [09:12] Expoze.io is a technique based on deep learning.  [09:54] Deep neural networks are networks that are based on the brain layers and instead of having to tell the network what the rules are. If you have a lot of data the network can figure out the rules itself. To train this network you need a lot of labeled data.  [11:16] When you have this big data set where you have all this labeled data, you can actually get the network to create a heat map that is very similar to reality.  [14:14] Branding is very important. In the long term, to build value you have to build your brand.  [15:14] Building a brand and being able to communicate your brand in your packaging and ads is so essential for successful marketing and branding in general.  [17:43] We are so wired for social interaction that our eyes are unconsciously drawn to faces and are attracted to them.  [18:43] With small changes, you can really change how something is drawing attention.  [19:48] They are currently building a product that is measuring brand value. They are focusing on getting measurements on brands.  [21:34] Contrast is going to draw our attention.  [23:02] There is always a balance between the story you want to tell, the emotion you want to create, and how you want to draw people in.  [24:00] If your story has to build up and there is no brand in the first few seconds it is almost a wasted impression.  [26:20] Really good creative agencies are able to integrate a brand into a story in a way that isn’t intrusive and the brand can really be the hero in the story.  [28:25] You have to really work to create multi-disciplinary teams.  [29:41] Statistics is an area that is so important and not always present in companies. So much of what we are currently doing is big data.  [30:37] Be open to multi-disciplinary teams and realize that it helps. When you take the time, really good things automatically emerge and it becomes very fulfilling and rewarding for everyone.  [32:38] There is so much we can learn from each other if we are just open to it.  [32:55] Having a diverse team is really important in making sure you can think about as much as possible before you launch.  [33:25] Often you need the input from all the areas to actually get it right.  [34:18] Melina shares her closing thoughts. [35:35] Melina’s award-winning first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia.  Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Connect with Ingrid: (MAKE THIS COLUMN 1) Alpha.One Ingrid on LinkedIn Greenbook IIEX Behavior Conference Past Episodes & Other Important Links:  The Annual Market Research Podcast Award - VOTE for The Brainy Business now! Episode 166: Sam Albert Episode 169: Troy Campbell Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today is a very fun episode about something that you might not think has a science to it, but definitely does which is so amazing! My guest is Troy Campbell, who got his Ph.D. at Duke University and has worked at/for Disney, Netflix, Nike (and much more) as well as taught at the University of Oregon. He has done so many cool things so far in his career, and he is here to talk about how you can do the same by incorporating the science of cool. Coolness may feel intangible. Like it is this enigma some brands or people just have or don’t and if you aren’t cool you just have to accept it. But as Troy will show us today, that doesn’t have to be the case. There is a science to it and there are lots of important lessons for your brand (and even making something as mundane as meetings more fun, effective, and cool). Listen to learn this and more in today’s episode... Show Notes: [00:06] In today’s episode I’m excited to introduce you to Dr. Troy Campbell, Chief Scientist at On Your Feet. [01:21] There is a science to cool and there are lots of important lessons for your brand. [03:51] Troy shares about himself, his background, and how he got into behavioral science. [05:23] Behavioral science has the closest thing to a magic spellbook that exists.  [07:14] He shares an origin story about a lecture he created based on the song “Everything is Awesome” from The Lego Movie.  [10:12] On Your Feet is a group that brings more joy, less fear, and better results to everything in business.  [10:55] Suffering from meeting burnout? The first thing to do is include the right warm-up for the meeting. Different meetings need different warm-ups.  [11:47] Tell the story of the meeting. [13:57] It is a personal warm-up because the thing you need to do is warm up people talking, chatty, and being with each other. In non virtual spaces, it is usually accomplished when you walk in and start talking to the person sitting next to you.  [15:40] Melina shares about using story cubes.  [16:39] Another great warm-up activity is a scavenger hunt.  [17:27] The mind is not a Tesla Roadster that can go from 0 to 60 in 1.9 seconds. It’s more like an old Ford. It is reliable if you give it time to warm up.  [18:17] In general, everyone wants to be cool to some degree. We all want to feel cool, we all want to give people cool experiences, and we as a brand have to need to be cool to our audience.  [19:02] Cool is autonomously breaking the norm in a somewhat positive way. [20:44] There is no objective cool. Cool is all about norms, individuals, and the way to engage with the norms.  [23:09] Cool is breaking free from the norm. Cool is finding a norm that people don’t think is that great and resisting that norm to an audience that likes it.  [24:08] We all want to feel as if we have this ability to autonomously break free from a negative norm in a positive way. As a brand, we want to create these cool things so we are seen as cool and we want other people to feel cool when they are using our brands.  [26:37] Troy shares one of his favorite moments ever from a workshop. [28:57] When companies break the norm in a positive way, it is the psychological feeling of cool.  [30:09] Metamodernism is this type of culture that we are in right now which is people really mixing things together in positive ways.  [32:26] Putting the old and new together has been a useful tool.  [34:07] What is too safe for one person is not too safe for another person. It is very difficult to be cool to everyone. (Know your niche!!) [35:29] Break a norm that is in line with something they need or ideology. In order to truly be cool, you need to go through really good design workshops.  [37:14] Let people be different. We need to see the whole spectrum of talents in behavioral science and allow that to happen.  [40:35] The brain is so complex. That melting pot of a field is so important for moving it forward.  [41:33] There are some things about behavioral science that are not fascinating--but they are still incredibly important and take skill to master. What is really great about behavioral science is the nuances and sophistication we bring around that.  [43:43] With behavioral science we can be incredibly valuable with quick responses and turnarounds for getting people unstuck.  [45:23] Melina shares her closing thoughts. [47:29] Melina’s award-winning first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia. I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! [spacer height="15px"]More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Connect with Troy:  On Your Feet Tingen Industries Past Episodes & Other Important Links:  The Annual Market Research Podcast Award - VOTE for The Brainy Business now! How This Year's Nobel Prize Winning Research in Economics Can Help Your Business Episode 144: Disney: A Behavioral Economics Analysis Episode 20: Defaults: Why The Pre-Selected Choice Wins More Often Than Not: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 21: Habits: 95% Of Decisions Are Habitual – Which Side Is Your Business On?: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 101: Dan Ariely Interview: Discussing Shapa, the Numberless Scale Episode 16: Framing: How You Say Things Matter More Than What You’re Saying: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 123: Get Your D.O.S.E. of Brain Chemicals, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 158: 3 Steps to Better Decision Making, An Interview with Matthew Confer Episode 18: Priming: Why You Should Never Have A Difficult Conversation With Someone Holding An Iced Coffee: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 145: The Power of Story, an Interview with Dr. Michelle Auerbach Episode 128: How to Build Products That Create Change, An Interview with Matt Wallaert Episode 11: Anchoring & Adjustment: The 1 Word That Increased Sales 38%: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 149: Familiarity Bias: Why the Devil You Know Feels Safer Than the Devil You Don’t, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 54: Biases Toward Novelty and Stories Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am excited to introduce you to Dr. Michelle Niedziela, VP of Research and Innovation at HCD Research. She is also an editorial board member of the Neuromarketing Science and Business Association (or NMSBA) and part of the brains behind the upcoming NeuroU Conference which is taking place virtually this year, September 13-15, 2021 (and I am sure will happen in future years as well in case you are listening to this later). Michelle will talk about it in the conversation as well, but I am very excited to say that I am going to be a speaker at the conference this year, so it is definitely the time to register and come join us! In today’s episode, Michelle shares her expertise in the senses – particularly smell and taste – and how important they are for brands. Ever thought about what moisture smells like? Or what scent will make people prefer one towel over the other? Listen to learn this and more in today’s episode... Show Notes: [00:06] In today’s episode I’m excited to introduce you to Dr. Michelle Niedziela, VP of research and innovation at HCD Research. [03:13] Michelle shares about herself, her background, and how she got into behavioral science. [05:08] The majority of her education background is more around taste and smell. Most people don’t think about taste and smell too much or realize how important it is in their lives.  [06:37] She has worked in academia with rodents looking at genetics. She built her career for over ten years studying rat and mouse models of feeding behavior and genetic influences until she developed an allergy to rats and mice.  [08:16] Then she ended up taking a job as a Senior Scientist at Johnson & Johnson leading their behavioral science and innovation program for taste and smell.  [08:54] People don’t really realize how important the senses are in product design and development.  [10:29] Product and brand is so much more than advertising and logos. It really is the product experience as well. You can lead people with sensory clues.  [13:18] In order to ensure consumer satisfaction and success of the product experience you really have to make sure all the senses align. Does it fit the brand? [15:24] Michelle shares how fragrances can have an effect on the product experience.  [16:24] Sensory branding is a very interesting world.  [17:40] Brand harmony can bring it all together to make sure it is creating an overall perception.  [20:03] They have a lot of different questions that come to them. They are the problem solvers that come in to help their clients.  [22:02] It is about finding the right combination of tools to uncover and meet the consumer needs.  [24:18] Michelle and her team also look at packaging and people’s perception of packaging. The words, color, and texture all drive perceptions and build a picture.  [26:24] In marketing and brand strategy we feel like we need to do more and be everywhere, but then you’re nothing to nobody.  [28:27] You don’t want to alienate your consumer.  [29:34] Michelle shares about creating your sensory footprint.  [30:18] The larger the sensory footprint the stronger you are to grab that nostalgia. Sensory is a form of communication.  [32:44] There is a lot of interesting research out there with sensory and food science. The size, color, and weight of the plate can influence your enjoyment of it, how you rate it, and how much you eat overall.  [34:48] As long as your brand is strong enough in their understanding of what your ultimate goal is, you can increase the goal and perception, but it does require a lot of research.  [36:17] NeuroU is a FREE online event this year where they bring in experts to talk and educate about current topics. Come join us! [38:19] Melina is going to be a speaker at NeuroU this year - hooray!  [40:51] Melina shares her closing thoughts. [43:18] Melina’s award-winning first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia.  Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode:   You're Invited: The Art and Science of Cultivating Influence by Jon Levy Blindsight: The (Mostly) Hidden Ways Marketing Reshapes Our Brains by Matt Johnson Connect with Michelle: NeuroU HCD on Twitter HCD Blog HCD on YouTube Past Episodes & Other Important Links:  The Annual Market Research Podcast Award - VOTE for The Brainy Business now! Episode 24: Vision Does Not Happen In The Eyes, But In The Brain – On The Sense of Sight: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 25: Why Burnt Popcorn Has Derailed So Many Meetings – On The Sense Of Smell: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 26: Why You Actually Taste With Your Nose – On The Sense Of Taste: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 27: Did You Hear That? – On The Sense of Hearing: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 28: Why Picking Something Up Makes People More Likely To Buy – On The Sense Of Touch: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 18: Priming: Why You Should Never Have A Difficult Conversation With Someone Holding An Iced Coffee: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 123: Get Your D.O.S.E. of Brain Chemicals, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 91: Coronavirus and How the Human Brain Responds to Pandemics Episode 149: Familiarity Bias: Why the Devil You Know Feels Safer Than the Devil You Don’t, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 79: Why Our Brains Love Nostalgia & Traditions (And How To Incorporate Them Into Your Business Strategy) Episode 9: Loss Aversion: Why Getting New Stuff Is Not The Same: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 61: Color Theory: When It Comes To Color, This 1 Thing Matters More Than Anything Else Episode 126: The Most Important Step in Applying Behavioral Economics: Understanding the Problem Episode 150: Using Behavioral Science to Build Connections, an interview with Jon Levy, author of You’re Invited Episode 160: Neuroscience and Psychology in the Business World, An Interview with Matt Johnson Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today’s episode is all about hindsight bias. You have probably heard the phrase “Hindsight is 20/20” and maybe even said it yourself on occasion. Well, I hate to burst your bubble, but this simply isn’t true.  We humans have a hindsight bias that makes us believe we knew something “all along” when reflecting back on an incident, and this can cause all sorts of problems when making future decisions. I will cover this throughout today’s episode as well as tips for how to combat hindsight bias so it has less of an impact on you. Show Notes: [00:07] Today’s behavioral economics foundations episode is about hindsight bias. [02:21] When we think about our brains and all the amazing things they do, much of what we are accessing are memories. [02:47] Our memories are basically inaccurate renditions our brains tell us and every time we access them, we change them a little. So, the more you think about something, the less and less it is like the original version. [03:28] Memories get further and further from the truth as time goes on, especially for those memories which are recalled again and again. [04:20] Even reading about an event in history, which feels as though it must be fully accurate, is missing details and important pieces that people didn’t even think to include or pay attention to. [06:01] In reflecting back on an event the brain will assume it has all the information on: what happened, why, and assume that it knows what to infer from that for the next time you encounter a situation like this. The problem, of course, is that you don’t have all the information. [08:32] Once the results are in it is easy to say you knew it, and it makes your overconfident, optimistic brain feel good about itself. [09:20] Our brains don’t like to have a misalignment in what we believe to be true. Your brain believes that you are smarter, better, faster, stronger than everyone else (including you 5 minutes ago). So, when something happens differently than you predicted, it looks for ways to resolve that discomfort (that dissonance) by reasoning that you “knew it all along” even when you didn’t – or often couldn’t have known. [10:12] One simple way I combat hindsight bias when doing presentations is by making people commit to an answer or instinct before sharing what the real answer is.  [11:36] If I didn’t make people say their answers out loud, commit to something in the moment in a semi-public way, even if they sort of thought of something in their head when I asked, they don’t feel committed and when the reveal came, they would not be as surprised. They would think something like, “Yeah, that makes sense. I was tossing around some numbers close to that” or whatever. [12:03] Saying their own numbers aloud and watching how far off the entire group is as everyone commits in the moment when I reveal just a few seconds later – is very powerful in getting this concept to stick in the brain. [13:33] Tip #1: Be comfortable admitting you don’t know or are surprised. [14:17] When you admit that you were surprised by something or that you didn’t know the answer, it allows you to ask why. [14:40] Tip #2: Writing things down ahead of the result. [15:15] If you have a decision diary or evaluation notebook or whatever you feel like calling it (whether it is handwritten or virtual) you can keep track of those thoughts in advance and reflect upon them to keep your hindsight bias in check when the results are in. And remember of course that your insights are only as good as the notes you take. [17:03] It doesn’t really matter what you choose, just get into the habit of writing those suspicions or ideas down upfront and how you came to the conclusion – so you can evaluate it properly in a post mortem and learn about your own decisions and flaws in your decision-making process that you can learn from in the future. [17:27] Tip #3: Review what happened, thinking through other outcomes that could have happened, and what would have made that be the case. Ask questions like, “How easily could things have been different?” or “What information might I be missing or overlooking?” [18:44] Bonus Tip #4: Don’t put too much weight on finding the exact answer and using it as a general rule of thumb for all similar decisions moving forward. Context matters.  [21:11] The Brainy Business was nominated for the best market research podcast of 2021. Vote for The Brainy Business here by August 31! Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning new book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Past Episodes & Other Important Links:  The Annual Market Research Podcast Award Hindsight Bias How Hindsight Bias Affects How We View the Past Why do we see unpredictable events as predictable after they occur? ‘I Knew It All Along…Didn’t I?’ – Understanding Hindsight Bias Hindsight Bias Episode 110: Survivorship Bias: Stop Missing What’s Missing (A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode) Episode 48: An Overview of Memory Biases Episode 34: Optimism Bias: The Good And The Bad Of Those Rose-Colored Glasses: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 102: Confirmation Bias: How Your Subconscious Beliefs Shape Your Experiences (A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode) Episode 164: How Businesses Can Design for Behavior Change, with Dr. Amy Bucher Episode 68: Counterfactual Thinking: Why We ‘What If’ And ‘If Only’ (A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode) Episode 71: Prefactual Thinking: How to Turn “What If” Into “Why Not” – Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode 11: Anchoring & Adjustment: The 1 Word That Increased Sales 38%: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 163: How to Approach Negative Reviews Using Behavioral Economics Episode 158: 3 Steps to Better Decision Making, An Interview with Matthew Confer Cognitive Dissonance (coming soon, episode TBD) Overconfidence (coming soon, episode TBD) Check out International Book Awards Finalist, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am very excited to talk about something I know is a common question for many these days. It is something that I get asked a lot and what I know many see as the future of behavioral economics and the overall behavioral sciences: AI.  How can AI and machine learning work with behavioral economics to help with predictive models? Do they work together at all or are they at odds? Could the industry combine these things to be more effective? Sam Albert, Chief Digital Officer at Behaviorally is here to talk about these exact questions via their very cool tool called flash.ai.  Show Notes: [00:06] In today’s episode, I’m excited to introduce you to Sam Albert, Chief Digital Officer at Behaviorally. [02:50] Sam shares about himself, his background, and how he got into behavioral economics.  [04:48] PRS changed its name to Behaviorally back in January 2021. They are really trying to understand consumer behavior and help their clients make good decisions based on that behavior.  [06:45] Understanding how consumers are acting or reacting to certain stimuli in store and then what they tell you they actually would do or how they feel could be different. It is about lining those pieces up and telling one cohesive story that is going to essentially help clients to make good business decisions to move their businesses forward.  [08:44] Behavioral science can pretty much be applied to every aspect of our lives and it is happening unbeknownst to us in every decision every day.  [10:04] The industry is moving on this trajectory towards machine learning, more broadly leveraging AI. [10:44] They came up with a system called flash.ai. They are able to take their learnings and apply them so that the machine can learn how to mimic those behaviors.  [11:30] Their system applies image recognition. The machine reacts to the visuals in a similar way to what a human would do.  [12:39] This allows them to have a cohesive platform that takes into account all of the key pieces that really (from a behavioral standpoint) drive what consumers actually do in the market.  [13:09] The change to AI was already happening and COVID accelerated that change.  [15:00] The world is becoming increasingly more digital.  [16:53] They use a dynamic system where the existing work they are doing is feeding the future models that are being built. The models are continuously being updated to reflect the real world.  [18:32] They both validate the work to ensure it is accurate and the dynamic aspect of making sure the machine is keeping up with the pace of change in the world.  [19:08] Sam shares some of the case studies for flash.ai.  [20:14] If you don’t take the context around it into account, you put yourself in a position where you can either get false positives or false negatives and essentially give the wrong direction to clients. He is most proud of the system's ability to take context into account.  [21:36] Context and nuance makes a significant difference when you are talking about behavior in general.  [23:27] They see flash.ai tool as an earlier stage tool. Flash.ai allows them to test without spending the time, money, or energy to get real consumer feedback.  [25:46] Being different is important, but you don’t want to differentiate in ways that don’t help you stand out.  [27:01] Flash.ai is the first step and hopefully it siphons down the different options that would go into a full test. Then you can fully validate those and do any fine tuning you need.  [29:29] AI is not going away. It is just a matter of what it looks like in the future. The path to purchase is going to play a critical role in what we see in the future. [31:06] You can’t run away from technology. You just have to build it into what you are doing and leverage it. AI is going to play a pretty big role in that.  [33:15] There is a lot that is lost when you switch to a digital environment. However, looking at it as an opportunity, how could we make this an amazing experience for everybody in a really powerful way? [35:58] Melina shares her closing thoughts. [37:39] The Brainy Business was nominated for the best market research podcast of 2021. Vote for The Brainy Business here by August 31, 2021! Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman Connect with Sam: Behaviorally Website Behaviorally on Twitter Flash.AI Case Studies Past Episodes & Other Important Links:  The Annual Market Research Podcast Award - VOTE for The Brainy Business now! How This Year's Nobel Prize Winning Research in Economics Can Help Your Business Episode 142: Status Quo Bias: Why Change Feels Terrifying, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 16: Framing: How You Say Things Matter More Than What You’re Saying: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 12: Relativity: The Brain Can’t Value One-Off Items: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 61: Color Theory: When It Comes To Color, This 1 Thing Matters More Than Anything Else Episode 11: Anchoring & Adjustment: The 1 Word That Increased Sales 38%: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am very excited to have Matej Sucha with me on the show to talk about the importance of applied behavioral economics and the work he has done to help shape the field. As you will hear in our conversation today, there are two fairly distinct camps in the behavioral sciences: the academic research and the applied. While many of us work together, there are different goals for each and there can be disagreement from time to time.  In general, I think most of us see the need for both sides and how they are necessary to help move the entire field forward. Matej is like me, an advocate for behavioral economics being used and shared in business as much as possible, which is why he recently founded and became the Editor in Chief of insideBE.com, which you will hear about on the show, in addition to his work as a managing partner at MINDWORX.  Show Notes: [00:06] In today’s episode I’m excited to introduce you to Matej Sucha, managing partner of MINDWORX and founder of insideBE. [02:56] Matej shares about himself, his work, and how he got into behavioral economics.  [04:01] This year they launched insideBE which is an app dedicated to behavioral economics in business.  [05:53] Behavioral economics doesn’t have the place it deserves in business. It is still in the phase of early adoption. It is not at the center of attention for businesses. [07:03] We have to put more emphasis on business applications.  [08:43] People want to see more practical business applications.  [10:27] Matej’s consultancy mainly focuses on the applications of consumer behavior.  [11:16] They developed their own approach for a behavioral audit in order to know when we should create an intervention and move people in the direction we want them to move.  [11:57] Matej shares one project he was fascinated by.  [14:44] When they included social proof the probability that the person would send their CV went up by 130%.  [15:14] Findings from research can inspire business solutions that are proven to work.  [15:47] Matej shares about an insurance project he worked on that was offering their customers travel insurance one year for free.  [16:56] One of the biggest mistakes that marketers make is that they only focus on how they can motivate their customers.  [19:01] They increase the conversions by understanding and removing the psychological behaviors that stood in the way.  [21:02] The problem is twofold. Companies, salespeople, marketers, and product designers don’t even think about understanding the problem and jump to creating the solutions. The second part is that they don’t know how to understand the customer and the problem.   [22:29] One tiny insight can help you create amazing solutions.  [24:34] It is about asking the right questions. Why aren’t customers doing what you want them to do? [26:08] Often the solution can be really simple.  [29:08] Timing is more important than the message itself. Timing doesn’t require a deep knowledge of behavioral science.  [30:27] When you’re a business person there is no better place to start than to learn from the amazing work of the greatest minds in the field.  [32:01] There are a lot of great resources available.  [34:16] The purpose of the content they are creating at insideBE is to first and foremost teach people how they can try themselves. The best way to get potential clients excited is to teach them as much as possible.  [37:10] “The next big thing in marketing is not technology. It is psychology.” -Rory Sutherland [37:50] If companies want to gain a competitive edge, it is psychology they should focus on.  [39:59] Melina shares her closing thoughts. [41:40] The Brainy Business was nominated for the best market research podcast of 2021. Vote for The Brainy Business here by August 31! Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: Predictably Irrational: The Hidden Forces That Shape Our Decisions by Dan Ariely Ripple: The big effects of small behaviour changes in business by Jez Groom Alchemy: The Dark Art and Curious Science of Creating Magic in Brands, Business, and Life by Rory Sutherland Nudge: Improving Decisions About Health, Wealth, and Happiness by Richard Thaler Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman FRICTION―The Untapped Force That Can Be Your Most Powerful Advantage by Roger Dooley Connect with Matej:  Matej on LinkedIn Matej on Twitter insideBE.com on LinkedIn insideBe.com on Twitter MINDWORX Website MINDWORX on LinkedIn MINDWORX on Twitter Past Episodes & Other Important Links: The Annual Market Research Podcast Award Case Study: How Redesigning a Job Ad Using Behavioral Insights Attracted Three Times More Candidates Case Study: How a Job Search Portal Increased Conversions by 154% Without Changing a Single Word in Job Ads Case Study: How an Insurance Company Increased Conversions of Direct Emails by 300% A Conversation with Cass Sunstein on Behavioral Science and Using Nudges: Recommendations for Overcoming Covid-19 Save More Tomorrow: Using Behavioral Economics to Increase Employee Saving Episode 101: Dan Ariely Interview: Discussing Shapa, the Numberless Scale Episode 131: The BIG Effects of Small Behavior Changes in Business, an Interview with Jez Groom and April Vellacott, coauthors of Ripple Episode 140: How Simple Nudges Can Save Hundreds of Millions, interview with Dectech’s Dr. Benny Cheung Episode 35: NUDGES & Choice Architecture: Introducing Nobel-Winning Concepts: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 16: Framing: How You Say Things Matter More Than What You’re Saying: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 126: The Most Important Step in Applying Behavioral Economics: Understanding the Problem  Episode 87: Social Proof: How to Use Herding to Boost Engagement and Sales Episode 23: Reciprocity: Give A Little, Get A Lot: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 72: Friction – What It Is And How To Reduce It, with Roger Dooley Episode 78: How to Become Indistractible, Interview With Author Nir Eyal Episode 153: Only 1% of People Blow the Whistle at Work—How to Fix That, with Nuala Walsh Episode 109: Secrets of Motivation and Incentives, Tim Houlihan Interview Dunning Kruger Effect (coming soon!) Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am very excited to have Dr. Amy Bucher on the show to talk about how you can design for behavior change using insights from her fantastic career and wonderful book, Engaged. Amy graduated magna cum laude from Harvard when getting her A.B. in Psychology, after which she went on to get her Ph.D. in Organizational Psychology from the University of Michigan. She has been a consultant in addition to working at Johnson & Johnson, CVS, and was vice president of behavior change design at Mad*Pow before recently moving to her current role as vice president of behavioral design at Lirio. Show Notes: [00:06] In today’s episode I’m excited to introduce you to Dr. Amy Bucher, author of Engaged: Designing for Behavior Change. [03:02] Amy shares about herself, her work, and how she got into behavioral design. She moved from a consulting role back to an in-house role.  [04:43] She loves behavioral design and she really thinks it is a wonderful application of the skills you learn in academic training.  [06:51] Amy considered actually becoming a physician. Her first job out of grad school was in healthcare.  [09:11] Amy defines behavioral design as applying the scientific method to the process of design. It is extremely compatible with human-centered design.  [10:08] Measurement is a constant in the behavioral design process. They want to be gathering data at every step; that lets them know if they are on the right track or not to adjust and optimize results.  [11:17] Amy shares one of her favorite projects looking at cities in India with an increase in diabetes.  [13:12] Amy explains why this project was so rewarding.  [15:27] As a behavioral designer it is really critical to have respect for the people you are designing something for.  [17:23] Amy shares about a project she did recently looking at behavioral health and healthcare. One of the primary barriers for people using that type of healthcare is the cost of it.  [19:05] Even if we know we are not going to make the change with speaking up in that one moment, speaking up can be like a grain of sand that will ultimately add up to something more meaningful.  [20:34] Finding that right problem is so critically important even when it seems so obvious what the issue is.  [23:25] Amy first recommends reading books to better understand behavioral economics.  [23:52] As a general process she recommends going through discovery, design, and testing.  [24:37] Here are three steps that someone who is new to behavioral design can use to get started: doing a literature review, creating an outcomes logic map for yourself, and doing a lens brainstorm.  [26:46] She also uses the self-determination theory of motivation a lot.  One of the basic ideas is if you want to get someone really intrinsically interested in something and interested to the point where they are likely to pursue it, you should support their feelings of autonomy, competence, and relatedness. [28:12] Amy shares an example of putting these into action.  [29:39] Be comfortable with the gray area.  You will go through a lot of the process not really knowing yet, but the process works.  [31:00] Primary research is a really big part. Behavioral design work is very heavy upfront with all the research.  [32:52] As a behavioral designer after the research her role becomes someone who is making sure that all of the intervention ingredients are being brought to life with fidelity.  [34:13] There are certain types of behaviors that are compatible with certain types of intervention.  [35:31] Sometimes what we think is the problem, doesn’t turn out to be the problem when we do the research.  [38:53] Every project is different.  [39:38] Amy shares an example from her book of an Outcome Logics Map.  [42:06] The visual reminder of what our brain is doing is very helpful.  [42:58] Such small things can produce such big changes in the way we perform. [44:53] Melina shares her closing thoughts. [46:21] Being a curious questioner is so important to solving the big problems. [48:49] The Brainy Business was nominated for the best market research podcast of 2021. Vote for The Brainy Business here by August 31! Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: Engaged: Designing for Behavior Change by Amy Bucher Connect with Amy:  Amy on Twitter Amy’s Website Lirio Past Episodes & Other Important Links:  The Annual Market Research Podcast Award How This Year's Nobel Prize Winning Research in Economics Can Help Your Business Episode 126: The Most Important Step in Applying Behavioral Economics: Understanding the Problem  Episode 19: Herding: Come On And Listen…Everyone Else Is Doing It: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 135: Using Behavioral Science in Healthcare, Interview with Aline Holzwarth Episode 98: Behavior Change at WW and Beyond, an Interview with Dr. Julie O’Brien Episode 18: Priming: Why You Should Never Have A Difficult Conversation With Someone Holding An Iced Coffee: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 51: Time Discounting: The I’ll Start Monday Effect – My Favorite Concept!: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 9: Loss Aversion: Why Getting New Stuff Is Not The Same: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 167: Hindsight Bias (coming soon!) Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today we are going to be talking about something that is sort of a fact of life whether we like it or not. If you want to live in the world amongst other people and put your personal or professional brand out there, you need to be prepared for negative reviews. This episode was inspired by a long-time listener who has become a friend and colleague – Jeff Pool from the Human Behavior Lab at Texas A&M University. Thankfully, it wasn’t inspired by him giving a negative review to The Brainy Business or anything like that. Instead, it was something he suggested a while back could be an interesting episode. It felt like the right time with my book just coming out a couple of months ago now, and the recent behavioral economics analysis of Amazon episode where I talked about the power of social proof and how they popularized reviews.  I also asked the BE Thoughtful Revolution for some insights on what they might like to know or what comes to mind when thinking about negative reviews while creating the content for today’s episode. The consensus was based on how to respond to them: Should it be done right away or delayed? Publicly or privately? What tone to use? And more.  Show Notes: [00:07] Today’s episode is dedicated to negative reviews. [00:45] If you want to live in the world amongst other people and put your personal or professional brand out there, you need to be prepared for negative reviews. [03:42] Melina shares an email from her friend Kurt Nelson of the Behavioral Grooves podcast hoping I’d get 4.7 stars on my book. [05:11] It is important to accept that negative reviews are coming and just wrap your head around that. [07:54] Why do we feel these so much more and why do they stick with us differently? Why is their weight heavier than positive reviews? [08:23] The reason we even look at or have influence from reviews and testimonials and star ratings (also known as social proof) is because of our natural tendency to herd. [10:21] Negative reviews are triggering our herding instincts and make the subconscious get scared of what could happen if we get too many more of those in the future. [11:43] Reading or otherwise looking at negative reviews makes us focus on them more than the positive ones because of those herding instincts. [13:34] We have a perception about ourselves and the type of person we are: honest, ethical, good at what we do. When we are confronted with information that threatens that perspective our brains really don’t like it, we want to resolve that cognitive dissonance. [15:12] Even though you don’t like it, there is probably some kernel of truth in the negative thing someone had to say about you or your brand. What if you looked for the learning opportunity in a negative review? [17:00] Don’t ostrich – It may be tempting to avoid reading the reviews because they can be painful, but not knowing what people are saying doesn’t make it so they don’t feel that way (and aren’t sharing with others). [18:48] In general, yes, you should respond to all the comments you get, both good and bad. And, tempting as it may be, don’t delete negative comments. (If they are profane or blatant lies it could be an exception, but in general, this is not a good practice.) [20:12] People aren’t often expecting any response, let alone a kind and open-minded one. You will be surprised at how many people you can bring back around to your side. [23:12] It is best to respond to the person wherever they posted to begin with. [24:30] You want and need that public acknowledgment for all the future people who see the comment. [27:39] Treating this person as a human who deserves kindness triggered some reciprocity and encouraged them to act in kind and, as far as I know, keep listening and following me. [28:29] Not everyone is your customer and that is ok! There are so many people out there who you can or will resonate with; focus on them. [30:54] It is really important to know what you are about, who you are for, and why you do the things you do before you are confronted with a negative review that addresses one of those things. [33:39] The lesson is to know your customer and identify what matters to your brand when you are in a cold state, so you can know what to take to heart and change, and what can be heard and let go of without having to constantly address your strategy. [34:08] There are some times where it makes sense to say you are sorry, of course, but in general, you don’t need to (and actually shouldn’t). [35:29] You can absolutely acknowledge their feelings, but you don’t have to say “sorry” to do that. [37:30] When you identify what matters to you and your company in that cold state, it is also important to know about your brand voice. [38:56] For most brands, it is best to be respectful and kind in your correspondence with customers and others in public and in private. [40:05] Do what you can to reframe your perception to see the opportunity in a negative review. [40:18] Hating negative reviews is natural because of our herding instincts, focusing illusion, fundamental attribution error, and cognitive dissonance, but thankfully understanding that can help you feel better about addressing them, overcoming your instincts that might not be the best initial response, and letting you give the reviewer the benefit of the doubt when crafting responses. [41:08] Don’t jump to apologizing. More often than not it will not work well. [41:21] Melina shares her closing thoughts.  [41:23] The Brainy Business was nominated for the best market research podcast of 2021. Vote for The Brainy Business here by August 31! Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning new book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: Influence, New and Expanded: The Psychology of Persuasion by Robert Cialdini Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman Past Episodes & Other Important Links: The Annual Market Research Podcast Award The Power of Unity: Robert Cialdini Expands His Best Selling Book Influence Melina Palmer: Using Behavioral Economics to Help Businesses Episode 89: Focusing Illusion: Why Thinking About Something Makes It Seem More Important Than It Is (A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode) Episode 92: Fundamental Attribution Error: Why the Pot Insists on Calling the Kettle Black (a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode) Episode 19: Herding: Come On And Listen…Everyone Else Is Doing It: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 87: Social Proof: How to Use Herding to Boost Engagement and Sales Episode 43: A Guide for You to Create a Brainy Brand Episode 159: Amazon: A Behavioral Economics Analysis Episode Episode 147: What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You: All About Melina’s First Book Episode 152: A Surprise Guest… Episode 157: Dr. Robert Cialdini and the (Now!) 7 Principles of Persuasion Episode 33: Inside the Texas A&M Human Behavior LabHuman Behavior Lab Episode 16: Framing: How You Say Things Matter More Than What You’re Saying: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 109: Secrets of Motivation and Incentives, Tim Houlihan Interview Episode 144: Disney: A Behavioral Economics Analysis Episode 102: Confirmation Bias: How Your Subconscious Beliefs Shape Your Experiences (A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode) Episode 97: Peak-End Rule: Why Averages Don’t Always Matter (A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode) Episode 60: Surprise and Delight Episode 167: Hindsight Bias (coming soon!) Episode 172: Interview with Prince Ghuman (coming soon!) Cognitive Dissonance (coming soon, episode TBD) Check out International Book Awards Finalist, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am very excited to have Dr. Leidy Klotz on the show to talk about how we humans have an instinct for adding things. We want more and often don’t even think about taking things away. But why is that? Why do we have adding instincts? Why are we so averse to less, and how could we see the value in it?  That is a little of what we talk about today in this conversation which centers around Leidy’s new book, Subtract. It’s really fascinating and more than mere minimalism. As Leidy says in the conversation, he isn’t advocating that less is always better, that you never should want more. Instead, this is more focused on thinking about it; considering the benefit of less before making a choice. Plus, you get to learn about his possibly surprising first career before getting into academia!  Show Notes: [00:06] In today’s episode I’m excited to introduce you to Dr. Leidy Klotz, author of the new book, Subtract. [03:30] Leidy shares about himself, his background, and how he has gotten to behavioral science.  [05:44] There is a way that people should go and then what they will actually do.   [06:34] Engineering is the creative application of science. There is a huge overlap between engineering, architecture, and behavioral science.  [08:05] People have been doing choice architecture for a long time, it has just been called marketing.  [08:44] Leidy was a professional soccer player and he wrote a book about sustainability through soccer. Soccer is a very systems-oriented sport.  [10:39] He learned a lot of things by playing soccer.   [13:32] He shares what inspired him to write his book, Subtract.  [15:04] When we encounter systems that we can improve in multiple ways, why is our first instinct to add? [16:52] When people try to improve something their first thought is to think about what can we add to this situation to make it better.  [19:01] More often than not, we don’t even think about getting rid of something.  [20:52] Instead of a longer list of to-dos, we need a list of “stop doings.”  [23:07] As humans, we want to display our competence.  [25:28] We can also show competence by subtracting, we just have to do more of it for it to be noticeable.  [28:30] You can be a minimalist by not acquiring stuff, but that is not subtracting.  [29:39] Left to our own devices, we are not going to think of taking away.  [30:40] A good lesson is to subtract first. If you subtract first you are more likely to think about it in later situations.   [32:53] Less is not a loss. Less is an improvement. [34:33] We tend to think of add and subtract as opposites. They are not opposites, they are complementary ways to make a change.  [37:06] When you are arguing for subtraction or trying to get people to think of subtraction, help them think about the thing they added elsewhere.  [37:52] When we add something, we are left with the original situation plus whatever we have added. When we take something away, we are left with an improved original situation plus that thing we took away which we can use somewhere else.  [40:22] When you have written something, taking it out is a really hard thing. Leidy and Melina share some about their book writing processes.  [42:22] Melina shares her closing thoughts. [45:15] Melina’s award-winning first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia.  Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: Subtract: The Untapped Science of Less by Leidy Klotz How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be by Katy Milkman Nudge: Improving Decisions About Health, Wealth, and Happiness by Richard Thaler and Cass R. Sunstein Think Again: The Power of Knowing What You Don't Know by Adam Grant Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap and Others Don't by Jim Collins Essentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less by Greg McKeown The Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up: The Japanese Art of Decluttering and Organizing by Marie Kondo A More Beautiful Question: The Power of Inquiry to Spark Breakthrough Ideas by Warren Berger Connect with Leidy:  Leidy on LinkedIn Leidy on Twitter University of Virginia Past Episodes & Other Important Links:  Episode 35: NUDGES & Choice Architecture: Introducing Nobel-winning Concepts: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 9: Loss Aversion: Why Getting New Stuff Is Not The Same: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 139: Endowment Effect: Why We Like Our Stuff More, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 112: The IKEA Effect and Effort Heuristic, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 11: Anchoring & Adjustment: The 1 Word That Increased Sales 38%: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 16: Framing: How You Say Things Matter More Than What You’re Saying: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 70: How to Set, Achieve & Exceed Brainy Goals Episode 99: Bikeshedding: Why The Simplest Tasks Can Keep You Stuck (A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode) Episode 68: Counterfactual Thinking: Why We ‘What If’ And ‘If Only’ (A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode) Episode 71: Prefactual Thinking: How to Turn “What If” Into “Why Not” – Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode 89: Focusing Illusion: Why Thinking About Something Makes It Seem More Important Than It Is (A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode) Episode 171: Paradox of Choice (coming soon!) Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am very excited to have a fellow behavioral science podcaster, Dr. Nick Hobson on the show. His podcast is called, It’s All Just a Bunch of BS. He also writes for The Behaviorist and is the chief scientist at Emotive Technologies. So, why did I say at the top of the show that this would likely show you a different side of Nick than you may have seen or heard before? It is because we really focus on philosophy, which is different than anything I’ve had on the show before and was a lot of fun to chat about. I must admit, in my undergrad I really hated philosophy. I’m not sure if I had a bad teacher or if I just wasn’t ready for it yet, but it was one of my least favorite classes. As time has passed, I’ve come to realize that the types of questions I love to ask and my personal approach to applying behavioral economics are built on a foundation of philosophy. So even if you’ve not been a fan of the field in the past, I recommend you stick around. I think you’re going to like the conversation.  Show Notes: [00:06] In today’s episode I’m excited to introduce you to Dr. Nick Hobson for a fascinating conversation that even if you know Nick, I’m guessing you haven’t heard him talk about on a show before. [01:13] In this episode, we really focus on philosophy, which I found to be so interesting and I hope you will too. [03:51] Nick shares a funny story about being a doctor and using it for a dinner reservation with his wife. [05:49] Nick has a doctorate degree in social psychology and social neuroscience. His dissertation was about the psychology of neuroscience and rituals.  [08:03] He was very interested in rituals and that determined the next five years of his life.  [09:45] Now he is an applied behavioral scientist.  [12:31] There is a great deal of value that comes with philosophy, the arts, and philosophical thinking.  [13:57] Good scientists are always trying to push the boundaries, explore the outer edges, and breakthrough with scientific intervention.  [16:52] We answer questions with tools of measurement. Tools of measurement are the foundation of any science.  [18:20] Nick shares about the “trolley problem.” [20:20] Nick shares how he transitioned from the space of rituals and about the work he does today.  [21:43] Behavioral scientists and all business owners are interested in the point of action that a person engages (and re-engages) in over and over. What is that decision process? [23:45] There are a lot of rituals on the external, customer-facing side, and the internal employee side as well.   [25:12] We are ritual creatures.  [26:16] Nick talks about the types of consumer projects they are working on.  [27:36] He shares a specific client scenario he worked through.  [29:16] The problem is never the price. It is about all the stuff that happens before. If you can showcase the value you are providing people will buy.  [30:25] Two areas of opportunity for improvement for his client were joy and respect. Once the areas of opportunity are discovered you can create strategic interventions.  [34:02] For all the behavior that we are looking at and observing, let’s not forget about what is actually happening inside the mind, which are the precursors to those behaviors.  [35:06] Melina shares her closing thoughts. [36:54] Melina’s award-winning first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia.  Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: Happy Money: The Science of Happier Spending by Elizabeth Dunn & Dr. Michael Norton Rebel Talent: Why It Pays to Break the Rules at Work and in Life by Francesca Gino How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be by Katy Milkman & Angela Duckworth Connect with Nick:  Nick on LinkedIn Nick on Twitter Emotive Technologies It’s All Just a Bunch of BS Podcast The Behaviorist Apex Scoring Systems Past Episodes & Other Important Links:  What a 5-Step Checklist at Johns Hopkins Can Teach You About Life and Business Episode 126: The Most Important Step in Applying Behavioral Economics: Understanding the Problem Episode 119: Creating a Habit of Curiosity: Interview with Bec Weeks, Cofounder of Pique Episode 60: Surprise and Delight Episode 35: NUDGES & Choice Architecture: Introducing Nobel-Winning Concepts: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 151: How To Change, an interview Dr. Katy Milkman Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am very excited to have Dr. Matt Johnson on the show to talk about the application of neuroscience and psychology to the business world. A professor, researcher, and writer, Matt received his Ph.D. in Cognitive Psychology/Neuroscience from Princeton University in 2013. His focus now is ultimately about bridging the gap between science and business, and to this end, he works across several fields including behavioral economics, consumer neuroscience, and experiential marketing. A contributor to major news outlets including Forbes, Entrepreneur, Business Insider, and VICE and writer for Psychology Today, Matt regularly provides expert opinion and thought leadership on a range of topics related to the human side of business. He advises both start-ups and large brands in his native San Francisco and has served as an expert-in-residence to Nike’s Innovation Team in Portland, Oregon. Among other things today, we are going to talk about the book he co-wrote, called Blindsight: The (Mostly) Hidden Ways Marketing Reshapes our Brains. It’s fascinating stuff you definitely want to listen to today! Show Notes: [00:07] In today’s episode, I’m excited to introduce you to Dr. Matt Johnson, co-author of Blindsight. [01:38] Among other things today, we are going to talk about the book he co-wrote, called Blindsight: The (Mostly) Hidden Ways Marketing Reshapes our Brains. [03:30] Matt shares more about who he is and how he got into behavioral science. He has always been driven by a curiosity about why we do what we do.  [05:33] For the past five years he has been working to explore the deep connection between neuroscience and marketing.  [08:16] They started working together as neuroscientists and marketers because of the shared realization of the similarities just separated by vocabulary.  [09:06] The mind and brain are fundamentally the same entity. They really just differ in terms of the language which is used to describe it.  [10:35] It is clear that the mind and the brain have a relationship. It is not immediately obvious what this relationship is.  [11:46] It is understood at this point that the brain produces the mind.  [14:06] “If you are led to deeply believe that your chosen shoe brand makes you a better basketball player, who’s to say that it doesn’t?” -Matt Johnson [14:35] He is very interested in the ways the consumer world shapes our belief systems and our associations that we have given brands and products.  These shifts can actually change our experiences and our perceptions of reality.  [16:04] Each new advertisement you see of Coca-Cola has changed the brain in such a way where it changes your fundamental concept of what you are consuming and this fundamentally shifts your experience.  There is this gap between objectivity and physical reality.  [17:27] Brands and consumer experiences are such a fascinating thing to study.  [19:43] Even if you have maximum exposure to the brand, they still invest in additional advertisements because of the exposure effect. The exposure effect moves the need more to preferences.  [21:29] Red Bull has continued to expand their target market to the point that now they are speaking to each of us. They started with a narrow association strategy and expanded strategically as they went.   [23:45] It is crucial to maintain brand perception by having a consistent execution with all your brand identifiers.  [24:33] Adding in a little newness can actually increase preferences even more instead of just repeat exposure.  [25:50] Matt shares about the Cadbury Gorilla and the value of doing something unexpected.  [27:11] When your consumers come to expect a certain type of brand personality or service, giving them something totally and completely different is a fantastic way to drive attention.  [27:59] The key to grabbing attention is going against the grain.  [29:57] You have to understand what the current goals of the brand are to choose the correct strategy.  [31:28] Brands have much less control over their brand image than they ever have before so brands really need to rethink how they’re constructing brand perception to begin with.  [33:23] Brands really need to adapt to this new media landscape through co-creation of the brand personality and also leaning into user-generated content.  [35:13] Matt shares his favorite tidbit from the book: psychology essentialism.  [37:13] A little story can actually go a long way. The story enhances the value of the product.  [39:31] Just like brands compete in terms of their positioning and products, they also compete in terms of their story. One of the goals of storytelling is empathy.  [40:46] We can’t empathize with groups, but we empathize with individuals very easily. Ideally oriented your story to an individual will enhance the empathic response.  [42:48] Melina shares her closing thoughts. [43:55] Melina’s first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is officially available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia.  Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s new book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: Blindsight: The (Mostly) Hidden Ways Marketing Reshapes Our Brains by Matt Johnson How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be by Katy Milkman Predictably Irrational, Revised and Expanded Edition: The Hidden Forces That Shape Our Decisions by Dan Ariely Essentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less by Greg McKeown Power of Story The Life-Saving Skill of Story: The Life-Saving Skill of Story (Resilience) by Michelle Auerbach Connect with Matt:  Matt on LinkedIn Pop Neuro Pop Neuro on Twitter Matt on Twitter Past Episodes & Other Important Links:  Cadbury Gorilla Episode 59: Pain of Paying: Why The First Item In A Purchase Is The Hardest: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 12: Relativity: The Brain Can’t Value One-Off Items: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 11: Anchoring & Adjustment: The 1 Word That Increased Sales 38%: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 8: What is Value? Episode 4: Questions or Answers Episode 151: How To Change, an interview Dr. Katy Milkman Episode 101: Dan Ariely Interview: Discussing Shapa, the Numberless Scale Episode 123: Get Your D.O.S.E. of Brain Chemicals, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 145: The Power of Story, an Interview with Dr. Michelle Auerbach Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

I know these behavioral economics analysis episodes are very popular. The ones on Starbucks and Peloton have quickly risen through the ranks to become the third and fourth most downloaded episodes ever on the show (and as we are on the precipice of our 3 year anniversary that is a pretty big feat!). There are also analysis episodes on Apple Card, Costco, and Disney and as you know today we will be talking about Amazon.  I am so honored to announce that What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is now an award-winning book! The International Book Awards were just announced and my book was a finalist in two categories. According to their website and press release, books published from January 2019 to May 2021 were eligible and there were over 2000 entries amongst the various categories.  Show Notes: [00:08] Today’s episode is a behavioral economics analysis of Amazon. [01:50] I am so honored to announce that What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is now an award-winning book! [03:27] In case this is your first behavioral economics analysis episode with The Brainy Business, what you can expect is a fairly rapid-fire list of things I see from Amazon where they are using tactics that tie back to concepts from behavioral economics. [06:05] And this gets to the first and possibly most important piece of behavioral science built into the entire company of Amazon, which comes back to the biggest mistake I have said time and again most businesses make when trying to implement behavioral science into their work or just working on most projects: understanding the REAL problem you are trying to solve. [06:43] Taking the time upfront to understand the behavior that needs to be changed and what might be motivating it (and on the flip side, how to make it easy for people to change) is so important to the success of Amazon. [08:28] Truly understanding the problem before jumping into a solution is incredibly important for every business. [09:01] This brings me to another cool way that Amazon thinks differently by reframing its approach to projects. Matthew Confer and I talked about this on his recent episode on The Brainy Business, and it is called the “press release method” or the “working backward” method. [10:10] This simple mental shift, framing the project differently, can help people get out of their myopic approach to what is in front of them and ask some great questions. [11:11] Reframing with the press release method can help you to ask the right questions early enough and avoid potential cataclysmic failures. [11:29] Amazon really took herding and social proof to a new level. [12:17] Star ratings, reviews, and recommendations for what other people “like us” have done before are hugely influential in getting someone to buy. [14:02] With books, they also let you overcome that additional uncertainty by reading a few pages and taking a peek inside. [14:45] The more people who use Amazon, the better it gets. There are more options to buy from, sellers are heavily influenced to keep honest and sell good stuff or they will get bad ratings. [16:04] To help overcome the loss aversion and fear of regret, Amazon makes most returns incredibly easy. [17:17] Another way Amazon makes it easy to buy is with their 1 click purchase set up. [18:54] Simplicity and reduced friction while working with the brain makes a huge difference. [19:23] It is so important to talk about the Prime membership at Amazon. Paid on an annual basis, there are lots of perks and benefits from being a Prime member, the biggest arguably being free 2-day shipping on a huge number of items. [22:27] If you create a huge amount of value that drives loyalty and other purchases and engagement and revenue, the subscription is more of a mechanism to build the habit. And, as we are seeing from Amazon, can be far more valuable than the cost of the membership. [23:26] Look for the value you can create to make it an amazing deal that people will love and want to talk about and you’re likely on the right track. [24:44] If you are selling items, it may feel like you are being pushy to have the default be a subscription and let someone self-select to change to a single-time purchase, but that is all in your logical conscious brain. As long as you are creating value and helping someone get something they want and need, there is likely a great value to them in offering a subscription or membership or whatever the somewhat scary suggestion might be. [26:28] The main concepts with Prime Day are loss aversion and scarcity. Time pressure from short-term offers with limited quantities makes people overcome their risk aversion and become very loss averse. Scarcity with herding makes us feel something is a great value and want to jump on offers. [28:07] With how easily our brains get overwhelmed, it is amazing that the 200 million Prime subscribers are able to find what they need and buy it so quickly (across Amazon, half of purchases are made in 15 minutes or less). [31:17] They make an unbelievable amount of information seem almost effortless, which is an amazing feat when you think about it. [31:54] Melina’s Top 3 Tips for Incorporating These Lessons: 1) You need to spend more time thinking about the problem you are trying to solve. [32:35] 2) Use social proof and herding whenever you can. [33:11] 3) Make suggestions! People don’t always know what they want, so help them find their path. [34:19] Melina shares her closing thoughts.  [34:24] Melina’s first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is officially available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia.  Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning new book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: Influence, New and Expanded: The Psychology of Persuasion by Robert Cialdini Past Episodes & Other Important Links: A Conversation with Cass Sunstein on Behavioral Science and Using Nudges: Recommendations for Overcoming Covid-19 Working Backwards (the Amazon Method) Amazon Prime Reaches 200 Million Members Worldwide Total E-Commerce Sales During Amazon Prime Day Surpass $11 Billion Amazon Statistics You Should Know: Opportunities to Make the Most of America’s Top Online Marketplace Episode 73: Starbucks: A Behavioral Economics Analysis Episode 47: A Behavioral Economics Analysis of Costco Episode 42: Apple Card: A Behavioral Economics Analysis Episode 86: Peloton: A Behavioral Economics Analysis Episode 144: Disney: A Behavioral Economics Analysis Episode 157: Dr. Robert Cialdini and the (Now!) 7 Principles of Persuasion Episode 110: Survivorship Bias: Stop Missing What’s Missing (A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode) Episode 16: Framing: How You Say Things Matter More Than What You’re Saying: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 126: The Most Important Step in Applying Behavioral Economics: Understanding the Problem Episode 158: 3 Steps to Better Decision Making, An Interview with Matthew Confer Episode 18: Priming: Why You Should Never Have A Difficult Conversation With Someone Holding An Iced Coffee: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 19: Herding: Come On And Listen…Everyone Else Is Doing It: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 87: Social Proof: How to Use Herding to Boost Engagement and Sales Episode 21: Habits: 95% Of Decisions Are Habitual – Which Side Is Your Business On?: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 106: Network Effect: How to Leverage the Power of a Group (A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode) Episode 72: Friction – What It Is And How To Reduce It, with Roger Dooley Episode 9: Loss Aversion: Why Getting New Stuff Is Not The Same: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 14: Scarcity: Why We Think Less Available Means More Value: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 32: The Overwhelmed Brain and Its Impact on Decision Making Episode 142: Status Quo Bias: Why Change Feels Terrifying, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 123: Get Your D.O.S.E. of Brain Chemicals, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 41: Structuring Complex Choices: The “S” in NUDGES: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 20: Defaults: Why The Pre-Selected Choice Wins More Often Than Not: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 31: Mirror Neurons: A Fascinating Discovery From A Monkey, A Hot Day, And An Ice Cream Cone: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 12: Relativity: The Brain Can’t Value One-Off Items: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 11: Anchoring & Adjustment: The 1 Word That Increased Sales 38%: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Check out International Book Awards Finalist, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am delighted to have Matthew Confer on the show to be share insights from (and beyond) his popular Ted Talk: Before you Decide: 3 Steps to Better Decision Making.  This talk came out before the pandemic, and Matthew also shares with us about how he and the team at Abilitie helped clients to shift through these changing times to make better decisions when there were so many unexpected shifts and choices to be made (and with a lot on the line).  As the VP of Strategy and Business Development, he definitely knows a lot on these topics and he has fascinating insights I can’t wait to share with you.  Show Notes: [00:07] In today’s episode I’m excited to introduce you to Matthew Confer to share the three things you need to do before you decide. [02:49] Matthew shares more about who he is and what he does. He works for a company called Abilitie and does leadership training simulations.  [04:06] They focus on three core competencies of effective leaders: people management skills, financial acumen, and strategic thinking and decision making.  [05:53] Melina shares how she did a similar simulation in college.  [08:00] Adaptability is one of the things that we want rising leaders and executives to have.  [09:16] There is a very big difference between doing and thinking about doing. [12:22] The biggest part of the simulation is that each of the participants have three time tokens of where they want to invest their time. It looks at how you piece together all the things we struggle with as leaders and make the best decision of how to use your limited time.  [15:11] From his experiences, Matthew found that there are specific traits that top teams do.   [16:18] After years of observation, he created a decision-making framework with the 3 steps for better decision-making (as showcased in his Ted Talk). Step 1) Challenge the Constraints.  [17:41] When you are looking to apply behavioral science, the spot where most people go wrong is understanding the problem that you are trying to solve.  [18:42] Time pressure is a form of stress and it changes the way we make a decision.  [20:24] Just because you challenge the constraints doesn’t mean you have to go and make a crazy decision. It just helps to see what is holding you back from making this huge breakthrough.  [21:01] Step 2) Embrace a Premortem. A premortem is so powerful because you are conditioned to not think you are going to fail.   [23:44] Planning fallacy is closely tied to optimism bias where we think we are going to be faster, quicker, and better.  [25:59] 80% of us think that we are above-average drivers. He noticed this in the simulation with leaders also.  [27:10] Step 3) Check the Basics. When decisions get more complex, small details tend to get missed.  [29:39] Taking the time to make sure you have really identified your basics is super important.  [30:01] Matthew shares an example of step one: challenging the constraints. The clients he saw that were most successful during the pandemic were the ones that threw the rule book out the window.  [32:03] It is important to reframe a problem when it comes to you. If your status quo has been shifted you should not feel like you have to do what you said you are going to do before.  [32:57] Next he shares an example for step two.  [34:12] If you're not having a conversation about what could go wrong, you are really missing an opportunity to plan effectively.  You need to put plans B and C in place to get in front of some of the problems.  [35:27] You need to be assured when you are making a drastic change or big decision, make sure those small details aren’t missed along the way.  [38:23] One of Matthew’s favorite decision-making techniques is the “press release method”.  [40:31] Writing what someone might say about you in the worst-case scenario is an interesting practice to help keep you on track so you don’t mess up because you know how bad it can be at the end.    [42:45] Melina shares her closing thoughts.  [44:37] Melina’s first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is officially available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia.  Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s new book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman Connect with Matthew:  Matthew on LinkedIn Matthew on Twitter Matthew’s Ted Talk Learn to Lead Podcast Past Episodes & Other Important Links:  Amazon “Press Release” Method To Reach Your Goals, Imagine You Already Tried and Failed What a 5-Step Checklist at Johns Hopkins Can Teach You About Life and Business Episode 51: Time Discounting: The I’ll Start Monday Effect – My Favorite Concept!: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 74: Time Pressure: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 14: Scarcity: Why We Think Less Available Means More Value: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 126: The Most Important Step in Applying Behavioral Economics: Understanding the Problem Episode 4: Questions or Answers Episode 34: Optimism Bias: The Good And The Bad Of Those Rose-Colored Glasses: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 114: Stressed and Overcommitted? Tips to Tackle Planning Fallacy, a behavioral economics foundations episode Episode 16: Framing: How You Say Things Matter More Than What You’re Saying: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 142: Status Quo Bias: Why Change Feels Terrifying, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 129: Melina’s Go-To Brainy Books: Behavioral Economics Books You Need To Read Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia  

Today I am beyond excited to have Bob Cialdini here to talk about the newly expanded version of his book Influence. There are 220 additional pages and a 7th principle of persuasion that has been added, which he explains in the conversation.  If you’ve been listening to the podcast for a while or have a background in behavioral economics, behavioral science, or psychology, you have likely heard the name “Cialdini.” His work paved the way for so many careers and I’m pleased to report that he is just an incredibly nice person who is a delight to talk to.  During our conversation, you will notice that I ask questions from listeners just like you – how exciting is that? These questions were posed from within my free global community of behavioral economics and behavioral science enthusiasts, the BE Thoughtful Revolution, which you can join today, and maybe you’ll hear a future guest answer one of your questions during the show!  Show Notes: [00:08] In today’s episode I am so excited to be speaking with Dr. Robert Cialdini about the newly expanded version of his globally acclaimed book, Influence. [01:17] Cialdini’s work paved the way for so many careers [03:07] Bob shares more about who he is and what he does. He is a behavioral scientist with an emphasis on persuasion and social influence.  [05:52] He found a small footprint of principles that seemed to be employed in all the professions he studies and he decided to write a book on the topic.  [08:18] Bob shares the first six principles that he talks about in the book. The first is reciprocity—that people will give back to people that have given to them first.  [09:27] The second principle is liking—we like to say yes to those we know and like. We can identify genuine similarities that exist between us and then raise them to consciousness. We can also give genuine compliments.  [10:22] The third principle is social proof. When people are uncertain they don’t look inside themselves for answers so they look outside. One key place they look is to their peers.  [12:55] The fourth principle is authority.  Besides looking at peers the other principal source they look to for information is the voices of experts or authorities of the topic.  [13:41] The fifth principle is commitment and consistency. We all have a preference to be consistent with what we have already said and done especially in public.  [15:00] The sixth principle is scarcity. We want more of those things we have less of. We find those things that are scarce, rare, and dwindling in availability more attractive.  [15:47] After writing the first six principles, he started to recognize that there was one principle he had missed. The seventh principle is unity.  [18:55] Bob shares his story and lesson about the Cuban Missile Crisis.  [20:37] It turned out that Kennedy had an act of reciprocation in place and had not drawn a hard line as many thought.   [21:54] It was a reciprocal concession that helped end the Cuban Missile Crisis.  [23:48] It turns out if you look at loyalty and advocacy of your product and service it is not a problem-free experience they are looking for. Instead, it is a problem freed experience. Bob shares a problem that was resolved in favor of the customer.   [25:04] There are going to be mistakes and bobbles. If those people can then resolve the problems quickly that is what is perceived as a special kind of gift to the customer who then feels obligated to give something special in return.  [26:08] When there are mistakes, there should be budgets available to allow you to fix that mistake.  [28:07] If there is a problem, it is an opportunity to have this reciprocity benefit.  [29:13] Melina asks a listener question from Adnan: “How do your strategies of influence adapt to a digital world, for example, social media?” [31:05] The platforms and delivery systems on which those principles are presented can change but the principles don’t change. [32:18] One principle has gained greater traction than all the others with the advent of the internet and that is social proof. People now have access to the views of others all around them. 98% of people check product reviews before making a purchase.  [34:01] Another listener question from Brant: “As people are becoming more familiar with the principles of persuasion and know they are there, are they less effective now?” We should not resist those principles being employed on us if they are being employed honestly.  [36:44] Where it is true, we want people to use these principles on us. They inform us.  We have to guard against the manipulation and counterfeit of these principles.  [38:18] We have to be in a position to reward those who use these principles to inform us properly, but we have to sting those people who undercut their validity.   [40:11] When he wrote the first edition of the book there were no prior readers so he sent out an invitation for the readers to send him an account of when they witnessed the principles working on or for them successfully. He included Readers’ Reports throughout the most recent edition.  [42:21] He is thinking about writing his next book as all readers’ reports with a comment from him on each.  [43:01] Bob shares a story of the unity principle working for him after he recognized its power.  [46:00] Melina shares her closing thoughts.  [48:33] Melina’s first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is officially available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia.  Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s new book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: Influence, New and Expanded: The Psychology of Persuasion by Robert Cialdini  Pre-Suasion: A Revolutionary Way to Influence and Persuade by Robert Cialdini Friction ―The Untapped Force That Can Be Your Most Powerful Advantage by Roger Dooley Connect with Bob: Influence at Work Principles of Persuasion Workshops Bob on Twitter Past Episodes & Other Important Links: Episode 23: Reciprocity: Give A Little, Get A Lot: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 87: Social Proof: How to Use Herding to Boost Engagement and Sales Episode 149: Familiarity Bias: Why the Devil You Know Feels Safer Than the Devil You Don’t, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 76: The Brainy Benefits of Gratitude Episode 120: Precommitment: Boosting Cooperation for Yourself and Others, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 14: Scarcity: Why We Think Less Available Means More Value: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 72: Friction – What It Is And How To Reduce It, with Roger Dooley Episode 39: Expect Error: The “E” in NUDGES: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 40: Give Feedback: The “G” in NUDGES: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 60: Surprise and Delight Episode 16: Framing: How You Say Things Matter More Than What You’re Saying: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am so excited to have Scott Miller back on the podcast to talk about marketing and branding, some of my favorite things! I really love the way Scott puts his books together, broken into 30 chapters with great, brain-friendly tips that you can begin implementing one day at a time. Essentially, the thought is that you can take a month and learn one lesson each day to uplevel in that particular area.  As you’ll hear more in the conversation, this is the second book in a planned series of 10; the first of which Scott discussed Management Mess to Leadership Success last time he was on the show. Today is about going from Marketing Mess to Brand Success, plus a funny story about a popular product that was originally called the “I-Suck” – can you guess what it is? Hear the answer and learn more about Scott and his work in the show.  Show Notes: [00:06] In today’s episode, I’m delighted to bring back Scott Miller of Franklin Covey. [01:17] Today is about going from a marketing mess to brand success.  [04:15] Scott shares more about who he is and what he does. He is a 25 year associate of the Franklin Covey Company.  [05:00] Today, we focus on Marketing Mess to Brand Success – the second of a ten-book series.  [05:56] If you have something to say, write a book. Your book has not been written until you have written your book.  [07:44] Scott’s books are very practical and they all follow the same format with 30 challenges. The chapters are very intentionally breezy and short.  [09:14] There is enormous power in teaching through your messes.  [10:38] Scott shares his favorite marketing messes from the book.  [12:51] A lesson he learned is that you can’t control all the outcomes of a marketing campaign. He shares some of the lessons he has learned in his book.  [14:49] Melina shares her own funny story from a marketing campaign she was part of.  [17:25] It’s The Customer, Stupid is the first challenge in his book. As a marketer, you have to be the voice of the customer.  [18:55] The best salesperson isn’t the person who has committed their third-quarter goal to memory, they’ve committed their client’s third-quarter goal to memory.  [20:07] We tend to market the way we like to be marketed to. Don’t always do what you like and know best. It may not always be the right vehicle.  [22:34] Marketers need to be close to the cash.  [23:27] A marketer’s number one job is to generate revenue-paying clients.  [26:38] There is a massive difference between facts and your feelings, emotions, and opinions.  [27:48] As marketers have you done your research? Do you know what circumstance your client is in or are you guessing? [29:38] What you say are the facts might just be your own biases creeping in because you are so passionate about your idea.  [30:22] 93% of organizations achieve success with an emergent strategy, not their deliberate strategy. They often have to pivot and search for new opportunities.  [32:02] It is important to speak your customers’ language.  [33:15] The biggest messaging mistake people make is that they tell their story. They don’t tell a story that their client can find themselves in.  [36:01] Never forget you have two buyers. You have an internal and external buyer.  [37:58] Marketing is very reactive. Branding is this touchstone and is proactive.  [39:35] You have to build a brand and earn a brand with some of the outcomes of your marketing efforts. You need to have a strong marketing strategy that helps you build revenue and a brand.  [40:07] Your brand is a result of this: did you make and keep a promise? Brands are hard to build.  [41:19] Scott shares his story about a brand being a memory with Ralph Lauren. [44:51] Melina shares her closing thoughts.  [45:47] Melina’s first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is officially available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia.  Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s new book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: Marketing Mess to Brand Success: 30 Challenges to Transform Your Organization's Brand (and Your Own) by Scott Miller Management Mess to Leadership Success: 30 Challenges to Become the Leader You Would Follow by Scott Miller Speed of Trust: The One Thing That Changes Everything by Stephen M. R. Covey The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen R. Covey You're Invited: The Art and Science of Cultivating Influence by Jon Levy The Life-Saving Skill of Story: The Life-Saving Skill of Story by Michelle Auerbach Building a StoryBrand: Clarify Your Message So Customers Will Listen by Donald Miller Marketing Made Simple: A Step-by-Step StoryBrand Guide for Any Business by Donald Miller Neurobranding: Strategies for shaping consumer behavior by Dr. Peter Steidl Connect with Scott:  Scott’s Website On Leadership with Scott Miller Podcast Franklin Covey Website Scott on Twitter Past Episodes & Other Important Links: Episode 148: The Speed and Economics of Trust, an Interview with Stephen M.R. Covey Episode 69: Management Mess To Leadership Success, an Interview with Scott Miller, EVP of Thought Leadership at FranklinCovey Episode 150: Using Behavioral Science to Build Connections, an interview with Jon Levy, author of You’re Invited Episode 145: The Power of Story, an Interview with Dr. Michelle Auerbach Episode 147: What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You: All About Melina’s First Book Episode 18: Priming: Why You Should Never Have A Difficult Conversation With Someone Holding An Iced Coffee: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 102: Confirmation Bias: How Your Subconscious Beliefs Shape Your Experiences Episode 126: The Most Important Step in Applying Behavioral Economics: Understanding the Problem Episode 44: Rebrand, Refresh or Reinforce? Episode 43: A Guide for You to Create a Brainy Brand Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am excited to share a favorite analogy I came up with while writing my book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You. It has also been awesome to see how well this is resonating with readers, at speaking engagements, and in the interviews I’ve done so far. It is one of those great comparisons that people just get. Which I love!  I know a lot of people have been asking questions like “How do I start applying behavioral economics in my business?” or “What is the best approach?” or “Where do I start?”  This idea of behavioral baking is my answer. Because it has resonated so well, I felt it needed its own dedicated episode, so here we are.  Show Notes: [00:06] Today’s episode is all about behavioral baking. [02:21] Once you have an understanding of some key concepts in behavioral economics, it is time to start combining them for application. [03:18] Understanding the ingredients is important as you get started. A very basic knowledge can get you ready for some easy recipes. You will probably start out with something simple like a boxed mix as you establish a comfort zone. [04:56] Each new step presents another opportunity to learn, but you will grow as you rise to each challenge.  [05:19] Lesson: even when you are trying to copy something, it is harder than it looks and will take a little practice to master that new technique. [05:52] The ingredients you learn about individually at first are the concepts. They are your butter, sugar, flour, and eggs. [07:28] You don’t need every single ingredient every single time, and you don’t need to be too heavy-handed with any ingredient. What you DO need to know before you jump in is…what are you making!? [08:04] This is the part where most businesses go wrong, not spending enough time really understanding the problem before jumping into solution mode. [10:23] An example where I used this in my corporate work. [11:53] Choices are relative and heavily context-dependent. [12:25] Working with the brain will make it easier to understand and solve problems in your business. But if you don’t take the time up front to understand what you are trying to accomplish, you will still be throwing noodles at the wall. [13:49] With the consequences so distant, it is easy to ignore and not change behavior. And still, your logical brain’s approach would likely be to go with logical arguments for why this matters. [15:50] Your brain is programmed to wonder what could be (optimism bias) and fear for what might happen if you choose to leave it there and it was a winner (loss aversion). [17:12] Change doesn’t have to be hard. Changing the natural rules of the subconscious brain that have been developing for generations is hard. Understanding them and working with those habits can make seemingly insurmountable changes become easy. [18:38] The result is often more important than the path to get there. [19:56] Understanding the result you want to help your customer, member, or client experience is so important. [20:29] Remember that your brain will want to educate and feel like throwing in some extra logic “couldn’t hurt,” but it absolutely can.  [22:02] Trying to force education can actually backfire and cause people to make worse decisions in multiple areas of life. Once their brain is calmer they may have the bandwidth to learn more and build on the foundation.  [24:03] Behavioral baking is a way of thinking that can help you use behavioral economics to get to that outcome. [26:25] I’ve been a big baker my whole life. Listeners have suggested it might be fun to have me share recipes from The Brainy Business and what I’m baking (to keep the behavioral baking concept going)...what do you think? Good idea or weird? Let me know using the links below. [27:21] The result is often more important than the path to get there. [30:19] Melina’s first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is officially available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia.  Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s new book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Past Episodes & Other Important Links: Episode 75: The Littery – Interview with CEO Michael Manniche Episode 101: Dan Ariely Interview: Discussing Shapa, the Numberless Scale Episode 126: The Most Important Step in Applying Behavioral Economics: Understanding the Problem Episode 112: The IKEA Effect and Effort Heuristic, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 16: Framing: How You Say Things Matter More Than What You’re Saying: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 34: Optimism Bias: The Good And The Bad Of Those Rose-Colored Glasses: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 9: Loss Aversion: Why Getting New Stuff Is Not The Same: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 154: Failure is an Opportunity not Ending, with Madeline Quinlan Get What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am honored to be joined by Madeline (Maddie) Quinlan, co-founder of Salient. Just like last week’s guest, Nuala Walsh, you’ve heard Maddie’s voice when she was part of the contingent who came on to discuss the Global Association of Applied Behavioral Scientists, or GAABS, when it first launched in the fall of 2020.  In addition to being head of membership and a co-founder of GAABS, in her role as a director of Salient, Maddie works as a behavioral scientist and has expertise spanning private, public, and not-for-profit organizations. She focuses primarily on the areas of finance, energy, and risk management. I also love that her bio states that she believes in “relentless betterment and radical authenticity” – great word choice! Show Notes: [00:06] In today’s episode, I’m very delighted to introduce you to Maddie Quinlan, co-founder of Salient. [01:01] In addition to being head of membership and a co-founder of GAABS, in her role as a director of Salient, Maddie works as a behavioral scientist and has expertise spanning private, public, and not-for-profit organizations. [03:11] Maddie shares more about who she is and what she does. She has been working exclusively as a behavioral scientist for the last three years and prior to that, she worked a lot in finance.  [04:26] She shares more about her leap from finance to behavioral science.  [06:07] She ended up leaving her job in finance to go from Canada to England to obtain her master’s degree in behavioral science from the London School of Economics.  [06:46] Melina shares her (very similar!) story about the moment she knew her destiny was in behavioral economics.  [08:52] Maddie met her business partner through the program in London and they started Salient in the middle of doing their dissertations.  [11:38] If you are really pursuing something that rings true to you or something that you are incredibly passionate about...something that really embodies who you are...it becomes so much more. When you live and work that way, you end up attracting others with the same perspective and interests. Then, you can all work together to elevate that common passion over time. You find your tribe.  [12:24] Any individual behavioral scientist can still move things, but if we all band together then that is where really fundamental and impactful change can happen.  [13:59] Salient was created to bridge the gap from the academic side and practical application side and be able to take them to different sectors.  [15:32] In the world of behavioral science and behavior change, we know that some things work and we know that a lot of things don’t. [16:59] She shares one of her favorite projects in the pension space.  [17:33] If you want somebody to do something you must make it easy.  [18:57] What people think and say they want is very different from how they actually behave and show up.  [21:12] Context definitely matters when deciding if you start with questions or just jump into testing. In an ideal world you can do some qualitative testing to inform your more large and widespread quantitative work.  [22:12] They suggest piloting a lot. It is beneficial for clients, project owners, and behavioral scientists.  [25:10] Just because something didn’t happen the way you wanted it to, doesn’t mean that it is bad. It can be a good opportunity to dig in a little bit further.  [25:27] The biggest mistake businesses make when they go to apply behavioral science or behavioral economics is they start working on the wrong problem and jump straight into “solving” mode.  [27:10] The insights on what doesn’t work are just as valuable as what does.  [28:39] In her dissertation study, they found that the meditation group had a measurably higher rate of temporal (time) discounting than the control and the jazz condition. People were actually more likely to consume in the present and choose that smaller “sooner” reward over a larger “later” reward.  [29:50] We as a field need to embrace the results instead of feeling like there is a failure in a null or negative result.  [32:01] We would never have more questions if we didn’t run into roadblocks with intended results.  [33:42] You really want to shape your experiments for everything you want to find out and how you can minimize your confounding variables as much as possible.  [35:28] If we were to publish all of the behavioral insights that companies are actually using, we would all be able to do a lot better. There is a way for us to come together and share working techniques to help everyone.  [37:31] When we are changing human behavior, the risk of doing it properly is really high in some cases. Attention to the quality and rigor with which we are conducting ourselves in this field is going to be even more important.  [39:22] Maddie shares what else she is looking forward to in the next five years.  [41:06] She thinks the next phase of behavioral science will have a bigger focus on personalization. The next frontier will be tailoring individualization in behavioral science.  [43:01] Remember, there is a person behind every decision.  [45:02] Melina shares her closing thoughts.  [46:41] Melina’s first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is officially available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia.  Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s new book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: Save More Tomorrow: Practical Behavioral Finance Solutions to Improve 401(k) Plans by Shlomo Benartzi Connect with Maddie:  Salient Website Salient on Twitter Maddie on Twitter Maddie on LinkedIn The Global Association of Applied Behavioural Scientists (GAABS) Past Episodes & Other Important Links: Episode 121: Meet GAABS! Interview with founding members of the Global Association of Applied Behavioral Scientists Episode 153: Only 1% of People Blow the Whistle at Work—How to Fix That, with Nuala Walsh Episode 126: The Most Important Step in Applying Behavioral Economics: Understanding the Problem Episode 20: Defaults: Why The Pre-Selected Choice Wins More Often Than Not: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 9: Loss Aversion: Why Getting New Stuff Is Not The Same: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 51: Time Discounting: The I’ll Start Monday Effect – My Favorite Concept!: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 16: Framing: How You Say Things Matter More Than What You’re Saying: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 18: Priming: Why You Should Never Have A Difficult Conversation With Someone Holding An Iced Coffee: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 11: Anchoring & Adjustment: The 1 Word That Increased Sales 38%: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 19: Herding: Come On And Listen…Everyone Else Is Doing It: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 87: Social Proof: How to Use Herding to Boost Engagement and Sales Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am very honored to have Nuala Walsh join me on the show. You have heard her voice before as she was part of the contingent that came on to discuss The Global  Association of Applied Behavioural Scientists or GAABS when it first launched in the fall of 2020. In addition to her work to get that started, she is the founder of a consultancy called MindEquity, which specializes in reputation communications, conduct, culture and behaviour change. She is the former chief marketing officer at Standard Life Aberdeen and also previously worked at Blackrock, Merrill Lynch, and PA Consulting. In addition to her consulting work and research (some of which we discuss today), she is also the vice-chair for UN Women (UK), a member of the Inclusion Advisory Board at The Football Association, on the Gender Taskforce at World Athletics, and more.   Nuala is a smart person doing amazing things to be sure and also just a wonderful human. She was kind enough to be a guest lecturer in my Internal Communications and Change Management course at Texas A&M talking about how to apply behavioral economics into mergers and acquisitions. It was truly a fascinating discussion the students loved. Today we are talking about some research Nuala conducted that ended up as an article in the Harvard Business Review. This research is about blowing the whistle at work and she has made some really important — somewhat surprising — discoveries and recommendations.       Show Notes: [00:07] I’m very excited to introduce you to Nuala Walsh, to share about the behavioral science of standing up and blowing the whistle at work. [01:02] In addition to Nuala’s work to get GAABS started, she is a founder of a consultancy called MindEquity which specialized in reputation communications, conduct, culture, and behavior change.  [03:45] Nuala is a repeat guest on The Brainy Business podcast. She made her first appearance on the GAABS episode.  [04:22] Nuala shares about her background and who she is. [05:46] She does a huge amount of work for sports in the discrimination space. The purpose is to level the playing field for athletics.  [08:01] Nuala shares how she got into the diversity, equity and inclusion space. [09:47] Nuala shares her experiences working with the UN women’s Association, World Athletics, and Football Association.  [12:38] Melina reflects on a point from Jon Levy’s interview: in business, most hire for competence first, then honesty, and benevolence at some point. Benevolence is actually most important.   [14:13] Diversity starts with actually hiring diversity (not just have them included in the slate of candidates).  [15:09] One thing that companies can do is to listen to the recruitment agencies. The change really starts at the top.     [16:54] Companies should take the outside view and listen to the other groups that have independent objectivity more than themselves.   [19:02] Nuala shares her research about speaking up at work when seeing wrongdoings. Too many people witness the wrongdoing and stay silent.  [19:56] Her work really focused on how to get bystanders to act.  [21:17] 82% of whistleblowers suffer harassment. 60% of those lost their jobs and 17% lost their homes. 10% of those people attempted suicide. That is a high price to pay for speaking up.    [23:47] In her study, only 10% of people even took the first step of figuring out how to report the problem.   [26:14] It is only estimated that 1.4% of employees blow the whistle and actually do something.  [28:24] With a zero-tolerance policy people are not going to be very keen to speak up.  [31:34] The thing that struck Nuala most in her studies was the number of people that found whistleblowing as an act of courage.   [33:41] If somebody prevents some kind of disaster you can make a hero out of that story and celebrate them. It recognizes their work without putting anyone else at risk.  [34:51] When the environment changes, like working from home, people are more likely to report something (or at least say they will) [35:21] Using the courage stories as evidence-based tracking is key.  [38:38] Melina shares her closing thoughts.  [40:11] Melina’s first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is officially available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia.  Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s new book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: You're Invited: The Art and Science of Cultivating Influence by Jon Levy   Finding Confidence in Conflict: How to Negotiate Anything and Live Your Best Life by Kwame Christian     Connect with Nuala: (MAKE THIS COLUMN 1) Mindequity Website Nuala on LinkedIn Nuala on Twitter The Global  Association of Applied Behavioural Scientists (GAABS) How to Encourage Employees to Speak Up When They See Wrongdoing Past Episodes & Other Important Links: (MAKE THIS COLUMN 2) Texas A&M University Certificate Program Episode 16: Framing: How You Say Things Matter More Than What You’re Saying: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 121: Meet GAABS! Interview with founding members of the Global Association of Applied Behavioral Scientists Episode 81: How to Finally Change Your Behavior (So it Sticks) Episode 7: Change Management (It’s Still Not About The Cookie) Episode 107: How to Have Difficult Conversations About Race & Inequality: Interview with Kwame Christian Episode 149: Familiarity Bias: Why the Devil You Know Feels Safer Than the Devil You Don’t, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 46: Biases Toward Others – Including Groups Episode 9: Loss Aversion: Why Getting New Stuff Is Not The Same: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 150: Status Quo Bias: Why Change Feels Terrifying, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 71: Prefactual Thinking: How to Turn “What If” Into “Why Not” – Behavioral Economics FoundationsPrefactual Thinking Episode 102: Confirmation Bias: How Your Subconscious Beliefs Shape Your Experiences (A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode) Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today there is a very special interview taking place on the show, in that the person being interviewed is…me! And, no, it isn’t me asking myself questions. I guess that is kind of like every solo episode I’ve done or much weirder where I would speak about myself in the third person.  The interviewer today is Michael Bartlett. He is the Director of Experience Innovation at JMARK and also trains people to pass the Certified Customer Experience Exam (CCXP). We got connected because he is hooked on books. As an avid book junkie, he reviews many of them on his YouTube channel, called the "CCXP Exam Simulator." As he was prepping to do a review of my new book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You, for his YouTube channel, he asked if I had considered having someone turn the tables a bit to interview me here on The Brainy Business. I said why not! As I’ve always found it much easier to answer questions about myself and an experience, than to just talk about it. I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did! I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Show Notes: [00:38] Today there is a very special interview taking place on the show, in that the person being interviewed is…me! [01:03] The interviewer is Michael Bartlett. He is the Director of Experience Innovation at JMARK and also trains people to pass the Certified Customer Experience Exam (CCXP). [04:24] If you want to understand customers you have to understand how their minds work.  [04:52] Melina shares her journey and interest in behavioral economics.  [07:28] Fun fact: She is a classically trained opera singer and enjoys singing – this led to a big realization about a tendency toward perfectionism in life and business.  [09:58] It can really be one piece that is throwing everything else off just a little bit.  [11:47] Our brains will limit us and feel like you pushed too far. Your body can keep going but your mind feels like you should stop.  [12:34] How our brain can hold us back psychologically in sports also translates into business.  [12:46] Michael shares about his journey.  [14:13] Melina shares how and why The Brainy Business came about. She was writing blogs for entrepreneurs and editing books as a side hustle.  [16:32] When they moved, she had a unique opportunity to really just focus on school for her master’s degree and building a new type of business around behavioral economics.  [19:04] On May 19, 2018, after encouragement from a mastermind, Melina started to rebrand her company and launched the podcast with its first three episodes on July 6, 2018.  [20:13] Melina always knew she would have a book.  [21:53] She ended up finalizing her publisher in late May 2020 and the full manuscript was due at the end of August – a summer of writing!  [23:30] When reading the book, you can focus on the areas that really interest you or learn more about a particular subject. She also includes corresponding podcast episodes.  [25:03] She had an idea of some topics that needed to be in the book. She created it similar to a “choose your own adventure” book in the way that you can follow the parts that interest you most. Interconnectivity is so critical to how the brain works and that was important to reflect in the book’s format.  [26:06] She gives her readers the opportunity to make connections to jump around in a controlled environment. She is creating a course that will be available to purchase and go along with the book and go even deeper.  [28:24] At the end of the book, Melina gives a really good example of how you can chain these techniques altogether.  [30:01] Melina really wants her readers to use, apply, and do what they set out to do with the book.  [30:50] The most important thing for when you are going to get started is spending more time thinking about the problem. Taking the time to know what you are doing, why you are doing it, and why it matters is paramount.  [31:42] You can go and use behavioral economics and have a good impact within your business if you take the time to understand the concepts and how they can work together. Everything is a learning opportunity to grow. [32:21] There are times when you should reach out and find a partner, especially if it is a really big and critical project.  [33:32] Test small and test often.  [35:18] Melina shares the books that have inspired and impacted her.  [38:02] Melina shares her two recommendations of books to really dig into behavioral economics.  [39:23] First nugget Michael really liked from Melina’s new book was when she reminded everybody about the importance of first impressions and the mode people are in when they first encounter your business.  [39:46] Michael shares two quotes that were huge takeaways from Melina’s book.  [41:35] Melina shares her closing thoughts.  [42:49] Melina’s first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is now available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia. Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! PLUS, get the free Companion Workbook for What Your Customer Wants within the community! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s new book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Connect with Michael: Michael on YouTube Order your copy of What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am very excited to have Dr. Katy Milkman joining me on the show. She has done so much amazing work over the years, some of which you have heard me share in episodes already, including the fresh start effect and temptation bundling, which as mentioned in last week’s episode with Jon Levy, is the most downloaded episode of the year to date.  I love her research and the insights she has been able to share with the world so far. As you’ll hear in today’s episode, Katy is an amazingly smart person who has a knack for finding links others may not have seen yet. She leads amazing teams of students at Wharton and works with Angela Duckworth on the Behavior Change for Good Initiative, she is also the host of the Choiceology podcast, and her brand new book, How To Change, just came out this week.  Show Notes: [00:07] In today’s episode I’m very excited to introduce you to Dr. Katy Milkman, author of the new book How To Change. [01:18] She leads amazing teams of students at Wharton and works with Angela Duckworth on the Behavior Change for Good Initiative. She is also the host of the Choiceology podcast, and her brand new book, How To Change, just came out this week. [03:34] Katy shares about her background and who she is. [05:35] Melina and Katy discuss the foreword of Katy’s new book written by Angela Duckworth (you won’t believe what she said!).  [07:53] Katy shares about her fresh start research and how it all started.  [09:11] There are moments throughout our lives that feel like new beginnings. New Years’ feels like a new beginning, but you can also have other new beginnings.  [10:34] Their research on fresh starts and the power of those moments to change our motivation and therefore our ability to make an impact for the better on our lives is the biggest ah-ha for Katy from her research.  [12:44] The fresh start research took about two years from the first conversation to the publication. It was quick because the findings weren’t subtle. (Katy and Melina discuss the differing timelines in academia and business.) [14:33] They had some results and it was clear what they had learned within a few months, but the insights and documenting of the results usually takes the longest.  [15:45] Katy shares another favorite research project she was part of about making people grittier.  [17:38] Instead of giving poorly performing students advice, they flipped the script and put them in the position to be the advice-givers to underclassmen.  [19:01] When people are asked for advice, it improves their motivation to achieve in that domain.  [20:56] There is this huge power in recognizing that when you coach others you are helping yourself.  [23:21] Too often we don’t take the time to figure out what is the actual barrier to change. [24:10] It is important to make sure you are not solving the wrong problem before you deploy your solution. [25:53] 9% of premature deaths in the world are due to inadequate physical activity. If we can figure these behavior change problems, we can really save lives. [26:48] 40% of premature deaths due to decisions that could be changed. This is a really big opportunity for impact, but it all starts with recognizing one of the challenges any individual is having.  [28:41] If I have this problem. I know a lot of people struggle with this as well. I am going to figure out the why for all of us and how we might change it and make it better. It can help you change everything by looking at it in a positive way.  [30:26] Katy shares one of the most frustrating findings of her career. A ton of things did work, but it didn’t create lifelong change. [33:23] It is important to have a reasonable goal with behavior change.  [34:52] If you want to create durable change, it has to be a durable commitment and durable solutions instead of something temporary.  [36:42] It can be really disruptive to have a fresh start if things are going really well. It is really hard to hold on and keep making progress.  [38:46] If we want to change we have to remain vigilant.  [39:27] Katy and Melina share their love for Harry Potter. [42:30] Check out the Harry Potter audiobooks. They are SO amazing!  [44:09] Mindset has a huge impact on what we can achieve.  [47:05] Melina shares her closing thoughts.  [48:31] Melina’s first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is officially on presale and available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia. Buy today and be one of the first to receive a copy when it officially launches May 11, 2021. (NEXT WEEK!!!) Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Preorder Melina’s new book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be by our guest, Katy Milkman Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance by Angela Duckworth Connect with Katy:  Katy’s Website Behavior Change for Good Initiative Katy on Twitter Katy on LinkedIn Past Episodes: Harry Potter Goodness Episode 136: Temptation Bundling: A Simple Trick to Reach Your Goals, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 81: How to Finally Change Your Behavior (So it Sticks) Episode 39: Expect Error: The “E” in NUDGES: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 40: Give Feedback: The “G” in NUDGES: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 18: Priming: Why You Should Never Have A Difficult Conversation With Someone Holding An Iced Coffee: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 102: Confirmation Bias: How Your Subconscious Beliefs Shape Your Experiences (A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode) Episode 4: Questions or Answers Episode 63: How To Set Up Your Own Experiments Episode 110: Survivorship Bias: Stop Missing What’s Missing (A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode) Episode 34: Optimism Bias: The Good And The Bad Of Those Rose-Colored Glasses: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 150: Status Quo Bias: Why Change Feels Terrifying, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Check out (and preorder!) What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am very excited to have Jon Levy and I am also very excited for our big milestone. This is the 150th episode of The Brainy Business podcast. Can you believe it? We now have well over 350,000 downloads in more than 170 countries (thank you, everyone, for tuning in and sharing with your friends!). You are going to learn so much interesting stuff from this conversation, I absolutely loved chatting with Jon. It’s no wonder with all the practice he has had amazing interactions with some of the most accomplished and diverse people on the planet: Grammy award winners, Nobel laureates, editors in chief, Olympic gold medalists, actors. You name it and they have probably accepted an invitation to dinner at Jon’s place. You can learn all about how he has done this and the true genius behind these fantastic interactions and getting to really know and trust people in our conversation today. Show Notes: [00:06] In today’s episode I’m very excited to introduce you to Jon Levy, author of the new book You’re Invited. [02:07] The most downloaded episode of the year so far was episode number 136 on temptation bundling (fitting, since Dr. Katy Milkman will be here next week to discuss her new book! Link below). [04:39] Jon and Melina’s books are coming out on the same day, May 11th. Funny bundling ideas. :) [06:40] Jon shares about his background and some of his favorite studies.  [08:41] He spends most of his life on the application of research. There is so much we have learned about human behavior, but we very rarely use it.  [09:46] Jon shares his experiences with inviting accomplished strangers to his house for dinner.  [12:01] His objective was to bring people together and bond them in hopes that it will improve their lives and hopefully they could have a larger impact on society.  [14:16] The more novel something is, the more we are enticed to explore and understand it.  [15:33] Because of the IKEA effect, they knew if they could get people to assemble, build, or work together on something, they will bond more with each other and care about the company.  [17:23] Applied behavioral science and academic behavioral science both have their places and they are both really important.  [20:07] You don’t want to be a sponsor. You want to be a partner.  [21:20] Be a partner on two things that people will really remember instead of 10 random sponsorships. It is going to be so much more valuable and impactful over time.  [24:07] In the beginning Jon started by inviting the people he knew that were very impressive and then he kept asking for recommendations. After some time, he did hire a research team to find people to invite.  [25:37] The key is understanding what are the behaviors or interests of the general group you want to invite.  [28:26] If you can curate an environment with other high-profile people they will go far out of their way to attend.  [29:18] It is this opportunity to meet interesting people, a novel experience, and something that is generous so they don’t have to be worried that you are after anything.  [31:34] As a general rule, they have one person per industry, a maximum of two.  [32:37] At the dinners, they can’t talk about their work so they end up having the kind of conversations that you have with your best friends. These conversations are a bit more vulnerable or intimate in your life.  [34:14] Researchers in general view trust as being made up of three things: competence, honesty, and benevolence. Though they are not equally weighted. We value benevolence more than honesty, and honesty more than competence. (Unfortunately, businesses hire people the exact opposite way - shift this practice to stand out and have a better team.)  [36:27] By leveraging the IKEA effect these vulnerability loops happen quickly. We need to be on the lookout for people sending out vulnerability loop signals. [37:07] Trust does not precede vulnerability. We have to be willing to put ourselves out there if we want to have profound trust.  [38:45] Because of loss aversion we feel twice as much pain for when something doesn’t work out as the pleasure of when it does. [41:09] Networking evokes feelings of being dirty because it is not a natural way for people to connect. Instead, we want to look at how we make friends.  [41:57] Usually, shared interests or connections cause people to be friends. Participate in joint activities you actually enjoy.  [44:27] Melina share’s about quarantine activities with her family. Fun quips about Mjolnir. (Bonus points if you know what that means without looking it up! Hint: Marvel.) [45:38] Relationships will really define the quality of your life. Be willing to be a little bit vulnerable.  [47:33] When you have an activity as the social catalyst, it feels significantly less awkward.  [50:44] Melina shares her closing thoughts.  [52:16] Melina’s first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is officially on presale and available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia. Buy today and be one of the first to receive a copy when it officially launches May 11, 2021.  Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Preorder Melina’s new book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: You're Invited: The Art and Science of Cultivating Influence by our guest, Jon Levy Speed of Trust: The One Thing That Changes Everything by Stephen M. R. Covey The Life-Saving Skill of Story: The Life-Saving Skill of Story (Resilience) by Michelle Auerbach Influence PEOPLE: Powerful Everyday Opportunities to Persuade that are Lasting and Ethical by Brian Ahearn The Behaviour Business: How to apply behavioural science for business success by Richard Chataway How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be by Katy Milkman Connect with Jon:  Jon’s Website Jon on Instagram Jon on Twitter Past Episodes: (MAKE THIS COLUMN 2) Episode 148: The Speed and Economics of Trust, an Interview with Stephen M.R. Covey Episode 23: Reciprocity: Give A Little, Get A Lot Episode 54: Biases Toward Novelty and Stories Episode 145: The Power of Story, an Interview with Dr. Michelle Auerbach Episode 112: The IKEA Effect and Effort Heuristic, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 97: Peak-End Rule: Why Averages Don’t Always Matter (A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode) Episode 60: Surprise and Delight Episode 8: What is Value? Episode 144: Disney: A Behavioral Economics Analysis Episode 123: Get Your D.O.S.E. of Brain Chemicals, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 9: Loss Aversion: Why Getting New Stuff Is Not The Same: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 142: Status Quo Bias: Why Change Feels Terrifying, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 133: The Best of The Brainy Business in 2020 Episode 135: Using Behavioral Science in Healthcare, Interview with Aline Holzwarth Episode 132: Decision Fatigue, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 136: Temptation Bundling: A Simple Trick to Reach Your Goals, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Check out (and preorder!) What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today we will be talking all about familiarity bias. Sometimes on the show, I share concepts with you that are a bit foreign. Like one of my all-time favorites in hyperbolic time discounting or even something like “choice architecture” which can sound a little intimidating. Others are like the topic of today’s show. Familiarity bias is less scary because...it’s familiar! It’s a term that is a bit like a warm hug, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t things for you to learn. This is a bias that can serve you well in life and business but it also often steers people wrong. So it is important to know how it works, and what to be on the lookout for on both the positive and negative sides. Show Notes: [00:07] Today’s behavioral economics foundations episode is about familiarity bias. [02:30] The subconscious brain makes decisions using rules of thumb based on predictability. It likes to know what is coming next so it can keep the reins which means it has a strong bias toward things it is familiar with. [04:03] What matters is knowing that the more people become familiar with things, the more likely they are to prefer them; to have a bias toward them. [04:22] Studies have shown that our bias toward the familiar can make it so we make worse bets, that we invest in the wrong things, that we will be more likely to hold out in jobs that we have outgrown or keep pouring money into projects we should have let go of.  [05:49] That new job opportunity or relationship or project or apartment or whatever else is presenting itself will probably be scary at first, but that doesn’t mean it is bad or wrong. Embrace the feeling and jump in knowing that soon it will be like that song you hated the first time you heard it. [07:54] Eventually, and much faster than you think, this will become familiar—the new normal. You will adjust. Look at how so many people adjusted to working from home or wearing masks during the pandemic. [09:07] Is there a “way you’ve always done things” that feels like you can’t change it but might just be familiarity bias?  [09:48] Awareness of familiarity bias can help you ask that question when you feel hesitant to take a step in a new direction. [11:59] Don’t be afraid to reuse an ad a few times, people might like it more as they continue to see it. [13:47] You don’t have to constantly feel the pressure to reinvent the wheel.  If something worked, keep doing it! Maybe you want to do a slight tweak to see if you can improve on a good thing, but if it ain’t broke, don’t throw it out and start on something new.  [15:43] It’s ok to prioritize an important project now and let something else that is doing fine sit on the shelf a little longer. It may be becoming familiar and making your customers like it (and you) even more with time. [16:58] Some things are not going to benefit you if you change them up. They could actually be a detriment.   [17:40] When you are feeling like you’ve done something a few times so people must be getting bored with it and they’ll leave if you don’t do something new and fresh, remind your conscious brain that people like familiarity!   [18:09] If you have anyone, customers or team members (or family members!) who hate the idea of a change and fight or resist at first, give it a little time to let familiarity bias set in. [19:21] What do you have in your business that is best to keep familiar for your customers? [19:48] Melina’s first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is officially on presale and available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia. Buy today and be one of the first to receive a copy when it officially launches May 11, 2021. Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube More from The Brainy Business:   🎉🎉🎉 Preorder Melina’s new book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Apply now to join the book launch team (and read it before anyone else!)    Past Episodes and Other Resources: Episode 51: Time Discounting: The I’ll Start Monday Effect – My Favorite Concept!: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 35: NUDGES & Choice Architecture: Introducing Nobel-Winning Concepts: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 142: Status Quo Bias: Why Change Feels Terrifying, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 16: Framing: How You Say Things Matter More Than What You’re Saying Episode 144: Disney: A Behavioral Economics Analysis Episode 147: What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You: All About Melina’s First Book Preference and Belief: Ambiguity and Competence in Choice under Uncertainty Ambiguity aversion and familiarity bias: Evidence from behavioral and gene association studies Familiarity Bias PART I: What is it? What Is the Average Rate of Return on a Direct Mail Campaign? Check out (and preorder!) my upcoming book on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am very excited to have Stephen M. R. Covey with us on the show today.  In case his name sounds familiar, it’s because his father Dr. Stephen Covey wrote The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People—one of the best known and most highly acclaimed business books of all time. And his son (our guest) has done some very amazing things in his career as well, living on that family legacy of greatness. As president and CEO of Covey Leadership Center, Stephen nearly doubled revenues while increasing profits by 12 times. During that period, the company expanded throughout the world into over 40 countries, greatly increasing the value of the brand and enterprise. The company was valued at $2.4 million when Stephen was named CEO, and, within three years, he had grown shareholder value to $160 million in a merger he orchestrated with Franklin Quest to form FranklinCovey. His book The Speed of Trust: The One Thing That Changes Everything, has sold more than 2 million copies and is a fantastic read. While it isn’t specifically naming concepts of behavioral economics, as you’ll hear in the episode it is very well rooted in that space. Today Stephen will share his “economics of trust” equation plus a bonus qualitative measure of trust that didn’t make it into the book. (Stick around until the end to hear that.) He also touches on some of the 13 behaviors that lead to great trust, so it is all about the behavior and economics of trust.  Show Notes: [00:08] In today’s episode I’m very excited to introduce you to Stephen M.R. Covey to discuss his book, The Speed of Trust. [02:35] Stephen will share with you his “economics of trust” equation plus a bonus qualitative measure of trust that didn’t make it into the book [04:47] Stephen shares about himself and his father.   [06:25] He has a feeling of stewardship and responsibility to try to carry on his father’s legacy and the great work he has done. He is very proud of his heritage.  [08:41] In his case there was somewhat a transference of trust from his father to him, but not completely. He had to earn it as well.   [10:20] Stephen shares his experience with a large group of naysayers in the merger and how trust made it work.  [11:49] There is a risk to get real and be transparent, but there is a greater risk of not doing it.  [12:31] The power of going first—of being transparent and vulnerable—invites reciprocity back. The vast majority reciprocate and that is powerful.   [15:40] The key to influence is to first be influenced. In the words of his father, “Seek first to understand and then to be understood.” [16:27] Understanding is not necessarily agreement. If people feel understood they feel much more open to your influence.   [17:29] Trust affects everything. Trust is also learnable as a skill.  [18:50] Trust always affects two measurable outcomes: speed and cost. When the trust goes down in any relationship in an environment you will always find that the speed goes down with it and the cost goes up. That is a low-trust tax.  [19:56] When the trust goes up in a relationship, the speed goes up and the cost comes down. That is a high-trust dividend.   [22:34] Stephen shares a few illustrations of the speed of trust from his book.   [23:24] Client referrals offer a transference of trust.   [26:31] Nothing is as fast as the speed of trust. Nothing is as profitable as the economics of trust.   [28:21] The cost of distrust is very real. The speed goes down and the cost comes up.  [31:19] Smart trust is having your propensity to trust and balancing that with your analysis. Start with the heart and you will see possibilities you would never see otherwise. Then balance that with your head.  [33:46] The vast majority of people respond well to being trusted and they rise to the occasion. They perform better, develop capabilities, and reciprocate by giving the trust back to you.  [36:02] Most leaders can be far more trusting than they are being. Our big challenge is that we are not trusting enough.  [37:47] There is actually more control in a high trust culture than there is in a rules-based culture.  [39:02] Two great practices are to declare your intent and assume positive intent as a starting point. Be trusting as well as trustworthy.  [41:19] It can help you build trust enormously well and fast to have a process for accountability upfront.   [43:01] Energy and joy are the two keys on the qualitative side. When the trust goes up in a relationship, the energy and joy in all forms go up with it.  [45:01] In high trust cultures people are more energized, more engaged, less stressed, and less burned out.  [47:13] Inspiration is the new engagement.  Inspired employees are far more productive than engaged employees.  [47:49] To be trusted is the most inspiring form of human motivation. It brings us the very best in all of us.   [49:44] Melina shares her closing thoughts.  [51:01] Melina’s first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is officially on presale and available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia. Buy today and be one of the first to receive a copy when it officially launches May 11, 2021. Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube More from The Brainy Business:   🎉🎉🎉 Preorder Melina’s new book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Apply now to join the book launch team (and read it before anyone else!)  Get the Books Mentioned on this Episode: Speed of Trust: The One Thing That Changes Everything By Stephen M.R. Covey The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People By Stephen R. Covey Indistractable: How to Control Your Attention and Choose Your Life By Nir Eyal FRICTION―The Untapped Force That Can Be Your Most Powerful Advantage By Roger Dooley Connect with Stephen:  Speed of Trust Website Stephen on Twitter Stephen on LinkedIn Past Episodes:  Episode 78: How to Become Indistractible, Interview With Author Nir Eyal Episode 72: Friction – What It Is And How To Reduce It, with Roger Dooley Episode 87: Social Proof: How to Use Herding to Boost Engagement and Sales Episode 21: Habits: 95% Of Decisions Are Habitual – Which Side Is Your Business On? Episode 23: Reciprocity: Give A Little, Get A Lot Episode 102: Confirmation Bias: How Your Subconscious Beliefs Shape Your Experiences Episode 46: Biases Toward Others – Including Groups Episode 92: Fundamental Attribution Error: Why the Pot Insists on Calling the Kettle Black Episode 32: The Overwhelmed Brain and Its Impact on Decision Making Episode 62: Game Theory: Life And Business Are A Game…Do You Know The Rules? Episode 15: Availability: Why People Are More Likely To Get Flood Insurance Right After a Flood Episode 19: Herding: Come On And Listen…Everyone Else Is Doing It Episode 16: Framing: How You Say Things Matter More Than What You’re Saying Episode 112: The IKEA Effect and Effort Heuristic, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Check out (and preorder!) my upcoming book on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

I can hardly believe the topic of this episode! It has been such a long time in the making and I’m so honored and overjoyed to be able to share this with you. My first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You, is coming out and will be available in the world starting May 11, 2021 in the US and shortly thereafter around the world. This book has been a labor of love and I am so unbelievably ready for it to be out in your hands!  In this episode, I will let you know what to expect when you get your copy of the book, why I wrote it, and some behind-the-scenes details from the process.  Show Notes: [00:08] Today’s episode is a sneak peek at my brand new book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You. [02:29] I’ve known for a long time that I want to write a book (many books if I’m honest...so expect more in the future!). I would say that I have been pretty actively pursuing the process of getting an agent and a publisher since late 2018 when the podcast was really gaining some good traction. [04:04] A behind the scenes look of how I found my publisher. [04:47] The next step was to finalize the best approach to my first book, and it was determined that going with a format that is very much in line with what you have come to know and love here on the podcast: what behavioral economics is, why it matters, and how to start applying it in business. [06:29] Smart brands work with the subconscious mind of the customer, and can uncover things people didn’t even know how to articulate for themselves. These are our favorite brands, the ones that change the world because they are so perfect people can’t help but fall in love with them. [07:30] Now with the power of behavioral economics we can understand the science of why people buy. There are business case studies and academic research among many fields and two Nobel prizes paving the way for businesses to use a recipe of sorts to begin applying this themselves. [09:08] Existing books from the field were either too mainstream or too focused for people in business to use for application. I saw this space in the middle (and knew it existed from the thousands of you around the world who love The Brainy Business podcast). [10:04] There was a gap, and so I have filled it with this book. That’s why I wrote What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You. To give a practical how-to guide that you can actually use to start applying behavioral economics in business and uplevel your career. It is backed by tons of research, interviews, and my own experience over the years as an applied behavioral economist. [11:31] It is conversational and fun to read so you will retain what you learn and keep going through the material while giving you the insights you need to start using the information.  [11:50] This book is not meant to sit on a shelf collecting dust. It isn’t a one and done. It is created to make it really easy for you to use again and again, project after project.  [12:03] There is a free PDF workbook that goes along with the book you can download off my website (which will come out when the book does in May) with all sorts of tactics and ways to use the insights beyond what could fit in the book. [13:05] It matters to me that everyone around the world has access to the awesomeness that is behavioral economics AND that they can start using it in a way that will get them results. [13:54] This book was carefully curated into four parts, which are intentionally presented in a specific order.  [14:01] Part one helps you see your brain differently, to know how it really works, and be open to learning.  [14:33] Part two is dedicated to the concepts that are most applicable in business. [15:34] At the end of each of these chapters you will find some tips and a prompt to start applying the information yourself. There is also information on the corresponding episodes of the podcast so you can go learn more about each concept, AND there is a section letting you know where you will see that particular concept come up again in part three of the book. [16:14] The concepts you will find in part two of the book are framing, priming, anchoring & adjustment, relativity, loss aversion, scarcity, herding, social proof, nudges and choice architecture, the paradox of choice, partitioning, the pain of paying, surprise and delight, the peak-end rule, habits, and reciprocity. [17:38] Part three builds upon the foundations (concepts) from the previous section and shows how they can be combined in various ways to get incredible results for businesses. [19:00] Similar to the experience in part two, each chapter ends with a list of the concepts that were included within the stories or information in that chapter, so you can easily reference back to them as you begin the application process using the prompts provided. [20:30] Part four is what helps this book be more than an interesting read. It shares some of your brain’s biases and tricks that are there to keep you feeling safe but keep you stuck when you actually want to change. [21:22] Melina’s first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is officially on presale and available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia. Buy today and be one of the first to receive a copy when it officially launches May 11, 2021. [23:02] Thank you so much to everyone who has already preordered. It has been awesome to see traction already. The book has hit #1 new release status in multiple categories on Amazon including market research business books and business encyclopedias, many weeks before it is even available which is so cool. At one point so far it was in the top 25,000 books selling on Amazon of the nearly 50 million they have there, which is amazing. [23:39] Thank you to the early readers and supporters.  [24:11] What an amazing ride it’s been getting this book ready. I can’t wait for you to receive yours and to hear what you think! Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Preorder Melina’s new book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 More details about the book (and to get that PDF workbook when it’s available) Get your free chapter of What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You Why Behavioral Economics? Past Episodes: Episode 69: Management Mess To Leadership Success, an Interview with Scott Miller, EVP of Thought Leadership at FranklinCovey Episode 72: Friction – What It Is And How To Reduce It, with Roger Dooley Episode 78: How to Become Indistractible, Interview With Author Nir Eyal Check out (and preorder!) What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am so excited to have Kwame Christian back on the show. Kwame was first on the show back in July of 2020 in episode 107. There aren’t a lot of repeat guests on the show because there are so many people out there I want to talk to and share with you; I am constantly trying to find new voices to bring on.  That being said, I had to have Kwame back for a few reasons.  For one thing, we have become friends over this past year and I know how much fun he is to talk to and such a wealth of information. When he came on the show we talked about having difficult conversations around race and inequality, which was influenced by the Black Lives Matter movement, the death of George Floyd, and other horrible events that started coming to a greater light in spring 2020. While Kwame quickly became a prominent voice in that space, it isn’t his main focus or real area of genius. While prepping to have Kwame guest lecture for a class I recently taught on internal communication and change management at Texas A&M, I saw that he had a guide about using anchoring as a tool in negotiation and it was a clear opportunity to have him back to talk about his truest expertise – negotiation techniques.  Show Notes: [00:06] In today’s episode I’m so excited to have Kwame Christian back on the show, a rare repeat guest, to talk about using anchoring in negotiations. [03:02] Kwame is the director of the American Negotiation Institute and host of the #1 negotiation podcast in the world, Negotiate Anything, which has over 2 million downloads in more than 180 countries. [05:27] At the American Negotiation Institute they do negotiation trainings and business consulting.  [08:30] Kwame has a background in psychology.  [08:47] Kwame’s philosophy for life is that the best things in life are on the other side of difficult conversations. His goal is to make these difficult conversations easier so you can live the best version of your life.  [09:04] Negotiation is a life philosophy that we filter every life conversation through. He thinks of every conversation in terms of a negotiation.  [11:39] There is a bias where we think that negotiation has to be adversarial. It doesn’t need to be that way.  [12:00] Negotiation is any time you are in a conversation and somebody in the conversation wants something. The people that you negotiate with the most are the people closest to you.  [14:24] In every situation somebody wants something even if it is just to be heard or understood.  [15:14] If you think of a conversation as a negotiation then you are going to be more explicit with your desires and invite the other person to share what it is they want out of the interaction.  [17:31] Any interaction (even when money doesn’t exchange hands), you are still trying to sell someone an idea that you need them to buy in on.  [18:06] Anchoring is the most powerful negotiation technique. You should always try to use it in some capacity.  [18:31] Anchoring with the most aggressive request that you can reasonably justify.  [21:02] If you have as much information or more information then you make the first offer because then you are in a position to create a competent anchor. If you have less information then you let them make the first offer and then you counter them.  [22:56] There are some glaring mistakes you can make if you anchor without having enough information.  [25:08] We need to be able to distinguish between rejection and resistance.  [27:58] The things you say have an impact. You want to calibrate that impact for maximum impact.  [29:57] Negotiation Genius talks about how to play defense when someone else anchors you.  [31:20] Anchoring plays a huge role in our psychology and if we don’t recognize it we are going to do things that have a subtle impact on the subconscious of the person on the other side.  [33:37] Negotiating the agenda is one of the most important negotiations that does not occur.  [36:23] You have to be more mindful about what you are trying to accomplish.  [37:42] It is helpful to know what the person you are negotiating with cares about most.  [40:01] We have to ask questions and learn as much as we can so that we can try to solve the right problems.  [40:44] Assertiveness is taken differently depending on who you are. The way you frame something may be different depending on your gender.  [42:37] We have to play in the world we live in, but we can be doing things on the side to try and change them in the future.  [43:19] Melina shares her closing thoughts.  [45:05] Melina’s first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is officially on presale and available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia. Buy today and be one of the first to receive a copy when it officially launches May 11, 2021. Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Preorder Melina’s new book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Apply now to join the book launch team (and read it before anyone else!)    Get the Books Mentioned on this Episode: Finding Confidence in Conflict: How to Negotiate Anything and Live Your Best Life by Kwame Christian Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman Negotiation Genius: How to Overcome Obstacles and Achieve Brilliant Results at the Bargaining Table and Beyond by Deepak Malhotra Women Don't Ask: Negotiation and the Gender Divide by Linda Babcock and Sara Laschever Ask For It: How Women Can Use the Power of Negotiation to Get What They Really Want by Linda Babcock and Sara Laschever Lean In: Women, Work, and the Will to Lead by Sheryl Sandberg Connect with Kwame:  American Negotiation Institute Negotiate Anything Podcast How to Combat Confirmation Bias with Melina Palmer Ask with Confidence Podcast Ultimate Negotiation Guide Past Episodes:  Episode 11: Anchoring  Episode 107: Interview with Kwame Christian Episode 16: Framing Episode 12: Relativity Episode 9: Loss Aversion Episode 18: Priming Episode 32: Overwhelmed Brain Episode 23: Reciprocity Check out (and preorder!) my upcoming book on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am very excited to introduce you to Dr. Michelle Auerbach. She and I met a few weeks back by an introduction from another podcast where we had both recently been guests, and it was clear we had a lot in common. When we had our “getting to know you” conversation I learned that Michelle’s work was all about the power of story (while I happened to be working on the curriculum for my upcoming class on Creating BEtter Presentations using behavioral economics and story for Texas A&M University. (Register here) During the conversation, we touch on several concepts that have their own past episodes, including those on the novelty and stories, nudges, framing, status quo bias, DOSE brain chemicals, and many more. Show Notes: [00:06] In today’s episode I’m excited to introduce you to Dr. Michelle Auerbach, author of Resilience: The Life-Saving Skill of Story. [01:59] Emotion is needed to make decisions, and stories evoke emotions. [03:48] Two days ago Dr. Auerbach defended her dissertation. (Congratulations!) [05:08] Story has always been an enormous part of Michelle’s life.    [07:14] She wanted to do change management in an organization because it is a place where all of the wisdom we’ve handed down shows up and helps people in their real everyday lives.   [09:09] Story does four really important change tasks.  [10:07] Story moves stuff from your short-term memory across to your long-term memory and allows you to hold on to information. It also allows you to see possibilities that you wouldn’t see otherwise.   [11:40] Story is a biologically based mechanism for getting things done well.  [13:35] If you really focus on one great story, it has so much power behind it.   [15:16] Dopamine and Oxytocin create prosocial behavior.   [17:11] Hero's Journey is so complicated and has so many steps. If you do it right, you end up with the good stuff (but if you don’t have the time or devotion it could be a jumbled mess).   [18:36] Michelle shares her three-part story structure: set the stage for what is going on, describe the trouble, what you did about it, and the benefits.  [20:54] Tell us what is going on, take us on a little journey where we explore the things that we need to know, and then tell us what you came to.  [22:53] Story matters no matter where you are and you can tell stories in different ways.  [24:19] Allowing diversity in the ways stories are told is fabulous.    [26:03] If you are on a team with people from more than one culture have everyone tell one of their favorite stories from childhood.   [27:44] Helping the audience participate in shaping the experience will make it so they are more invested and more likely to want to move forward (IKEA Effect).   [28:38] If you have a very strong why and you can bring that into the room in a very tactile way people will spend the rest of the day leading from that place.  [29:17] Melina shares about story cubes (get your own with the link below!)   [31:02] It is the details that evoke feelings that make the story work. Anything you can do to add visuals to storytelling is a really good idea because it helps to evoke feelings in another way.   [33:47] To be able to use a biological-based system for talking about it allows people to have better conversations, be more open, and feel more grounded while they are doing it.  [35:11] Story listening is important too. You can evoke good stories from people in a way that is healing to the people telling the stories.   [36:54] Decision making is impossible without feeling and stories evoke feeling.  If you need people to make a decision in the room, you need to be telling stories along with the data you are giving.  [38:07] Storytelling definitely gets people over the hump of overvaluing their current state and undervaluing the change.  [39:03] Start by listening to other people’s stories and hear what you like and what doesn’t work for you. What is really possible for you? [40:18] Ask the three story questions: What was going on? What did you do about it? What happened? [42:23] If you say this is what was going on, this is what I did about it, and this is what happened to me, people wonder what would have happened for them and start to take it in more deeply instead of saying you're supposed to feel this way about this thing.  [44:53] Simple and positive nudges can have a huge impact on behavior.   [47:05] Everybody can be a great storyteller.   [50:01] Melina shares her closing thoughts.  [51:32] Melina’s first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is officially on presale and available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia. Buy today and be one of the first to receive a copy when it officially launches May 11, 2021. Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: [email protected] The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube More from The Brainy Business:   🎉🎉🎉 Preorder Melina’s new book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Apply now to join the book launch team (and read it before anyone else!)    Get the Books & Tools Mentioned on this Episode: Resilience: The Life-Saving Skill of Story by professor Michelle Auerback The Five Dysfunctions of a Team: A Leadership Fable by Patrick Lencioni Story Cubes Past Episodes and Other Important Links: You Better Behave! - Melina is the MC for this free virtual masterclass - join us March 31! Michelle’s Website Michelle on LinkedIn Modaka Communications Michelle on Instagram Texas A&M Human Behavior Lab Certificate Program Creating BEtter Presentations Change Management Framing Novelty & Stories Priming Get Your D.O.S.E. of Brain Chemicals Mirror Neurons IKEA Effect Interview with Kwame Christian Availability Overview of Personal Biases Biases Toward Others – Including Groups Status Quo Bias Interview with Michael Schein Expect Error Give Feedback Disney Check out (and preorder!) my upcoming book on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia If you are outside the US, please complete this form to be first to know when the book is available near you AND to help show there is a presence in your country to speed along international agreements and get it to you faster!