Welcome back to Champs Coast and Ballerinas.
My name is Helen.I'm Mariah.I'm Ellen.Teddy's like, Jesus.Startled me.Startled.
This is a book episode.A book episode.We're gonna do Pale Phoenix by Katherine Reese. You want me to read the back real quick?Oh, I've got a thing.Do it.Well, we'll see.Yeah.So we'll do our pop culture because Pale Phoenix was published in 1994.
30 years ago.How old were you 30 years ago?25.You're going to be 55.I'm going to be 56.Fuck me.I thought you were like 22 or 52.No.I think in my head you've been 52 for the last
Like, since I've known you.The entire time I've known you.
I'll take it.Yeah.I was two.I wasn't born yet.God.OK, so here's some fun facts, some pop, pop, pop culture of 1994.Let's see.So let's get back down to here.So in 1994, the Dallas Cowboys won the Super Bowl.
OJ Simpson was arrested after a high-speed chase. Which, so there's an OJ Simpson, um, there's a documentary out.Now that he's dead?
Well, it came out, I think, before he died, but I just had seen a thing about it and apparently it's really good and it goes into more detail about Nicole Brown and that whole, you know, his wife that he murdered, ex-wife that he murdered, and the guy, and apparently it goes, like, more information than a lot of people, and I'm sure people do know, but, like, I don't know a whole heck of, I know the basics.
But obviously I was two, so I don't, you know, so I really want to watch that.
Well, I lived it, so.I know you did.Watched it on TV, listened to the, we at work were listening to the verdict on the radio.
But I read somewhere or I heard somewhere, maybe it was on Instagram, so 100% true, that the reason the glove didn't fit, it was because it was his son from his first wife.Did you tell me that?Yeah.Oh, that's how.
Yeah, that's how yeah, I saw that that theory and I feel like it could absolutely be true Yeah, or he absolutely was the one who murdered, you know, I whatever he either like he's a murderer does Yeah, I did see that that he was covering for his son, but I Don't know but so the documentary I want to watch is it's Made in America.
Oh, gee made in America and apparently so it has a 98% on Rotten Tomatoes, but it's on Netflix I want to watch it.Anywho little side thing So yeah, I don't remember anything about the OJ Simpson.I remember watching the news with the chase.
I remember, I remember all of it.I remember more the Michael Jackson trial.Oh.And like when he was on trial and then it was all, you know, all the televised stuff.And then I do remember, I remember us all as a family watching for the verdict.
And when it came back that he was innocent and my dad was like, whatever, shut the TV off.Like that's bullshit.
Can, can someone explain to me what happened?Cause I know nothing.
Um, when Michael Jackson was on trial.Nope.OJ Simpson.Oh, OJ Simpson was a football player and he murdered his ex-wife, Nicole Brown and her lover.Um, what was his name?Gold, Goldblum.Gold, Goldman.Goldman.What was his first name?Can't remember.
I don't either.Well, I'll let you know when I watch the documentary, but he murdered his ex-wife. right?Ex-wife at the time?Ex-wife.Yeah, ex-wife.Brutal, brutal murder.Yeah.And then he went on trial for it and there was a chase.He was acquitted.
He was acquitted because whatever, but he did it.And then there was a chase with his white Bronco and that was televised.And then he came out later with a book that said, if I did it,
but so he went to prison though for yeah what did he something else um uh something with sports memorabilia swindling people or something so he did go to he did go to jail for not for the murder not for murder but it was like i have accidentally seen the crime scene photos yeah i've seen them too it's horrific it's
How do you accidentally see crime scenes?
Google it?I was reading a thing about it and then they had a crime scene photo so I wasn't expecting it and it was there and I was like, boop.It was... Bad.Very brutal.Very brutal.It's not like he just like...
So you think his... No, he stabbed whoever, if it was him, I'm sure it was him.
Although the glove found at the scene wasn't his or something, doesn't fit, but leather stretches and contrasts.
Well, and I also saw a thing that another reason the glove may have not fit on trial when he did that is because he was wearing a glove so that he didn't contaminate it.So he was wearing a glove and then had to put the glove over that glove.
because then they televised his trial and it was like the biggest thing of 94 and there was a point where they had found these gloves or whatever and they made him try it on on camera.If it doesn't fit you must acquit.
Yep and so he put the glove on and it it didn't fit and so he was acquitted but everybody thinks that he did it.Yeah.Him or his son but I think he did it.Okay.I think so.
Did he have like kids with her?
Or were they just married?
Did he?Yeah, he was married before.He had kids from a previous marriage.And then I think he had two kids with her.I feel like that's right.Yeah.So my guess, the theory behind this murder was because she had a lover.
Yeah.Yeah.Cause they were not even together, but yeah.So then he, she was, she had moved on.And that just made him mad.And I think the other thing too, is cause there was the guy who got murdered.Wasn't her boyfriend.Yeah, they were.
No, but wasn't there another guy who just showed up?Cause like he was, oh, maybe that's the guy who found him.That's what it was.Cause she left something at the restaurant and then the waiter was driving her.
This makes me want to watch the documentary.Yeah.I'll let you know if it's good.Okay.But any, any who, so yeah, OJ Simpson, that was a big 1984.
Uh, Bill Clinton was president and the FDA approved the first genetically modified food, which was a tomato.A tomato.A tomato.Top baby names in 1994 were Jessica and Michael. I know one of each.
Other top girl names were Ashley, Emily, Samantha, Sarah, and Tyler.
My name was going to be Emily.
Really?Oh, why did they not go with Emily?Oh, that's weird.
I think my mom had picked out Emily and my dad had picked out Mariah.
Oh, interesting.Your dad won.Nice.Go dad.Yeah.I don't picture you as an Emily, right?No, it doesn't seem right.More of a Rebecca.Yeah, exactly.Yes.Top boy names were Christopher, Matthew, Joshua, Tyler, and Brandon.
So, um, the first ever online purchase was a pizza. The first ever online purchase made was pizza, was a pizza from Pizza Hut.Um, let's see.Let's see.PlayStation.
If that doesn't set the tone for America.
Yeah, no shit.Uh, let's see.Okay.The movies that come out.So the Lion King had come out was one of the, was the number one film followed by Forrest Gump, uh, True Lies and, um, the Santa Claus. Yeah, True Lies is good.
I also saw a thing on one of the other sites I was trying to find.True Lies at the time was the most expensive movie ever made with, it was like $143 million.Holy Lord.Yeah.And I don't think it made. So it wasn't worth $143 million?
Listen, I've seen True Lies.It's not.It's not.I also get True Lies and True Romance confused all the time, even though they're not even kind of the same movie, with the same actors, or it's not even close.
And then Major League Baseball went on strike.Do you remember that? Strike lasted 232 days, went into 1995.Uh, and then George Foreman became the world heavyweight boxing champion at the age of 45.Here's this one.
Harry Styles was born on February 1st, 1994.There we go.Uh, other celebrities born in 1994 are Dakota Fanning, Lil Baby.Don't know who that is.Nope.He's a rapper.Okay.Uh, Ansel Elgort, Justin Bieber, Halsey. On something- Shut up!
Halsey and Justin Bieber are the same age.According to this. Seinfeld made America laugh every Thursday.The number one TV show in 1994 was Seinfeld.It was funny.
Following close behind was the top rated drama ER, which George Clooney was on with his giant head of hair.And overalls were all the fashion.Do you know if he was on Facts of Life?No, I didn't know that.Overalls.
overalls i didn't know that not gonna lie i kind of want a pair of overalls me too but i feel like my butt's too big to like have them be comfortable yeah wearing bigger yeah i they have to be real real baggy to make room for that and then just like cinch cinch the top no if i'm wearing baggy we're not cinching shit absolutely not no so you know so there's some
pop pop pop culture pop culture 94 94 do you think would you say ellen that 94 was a great year for you personally in your 20s mid-20s no i was with the asshole okay yeah terrible year just a terrible year
I didn't know he was the asshole then though.Yeah.Before he started gaslighting me.
Yeah.Um, so for the book, Pale Phoenix, um, I didn't get anything for Catherine Reese because if anybody wants to know about that, they can go listen to Time Windows.Yup.Yup.Jaunt back in our earlier episodes.So now remind me, did you like that one?
No.Um, I think. There were, I think, I think it was actually one of those where I came in not liking it.And then the more you two explained that I must've missed, I was like, okay, so it's not as bad as I thought.
Like there, and I think I was also trying to be, um, less angry because Amanda had picked it and I didn't want to be mean to Amanda because if she picked it, she liked it.And that's totally fine.You can like that book.I didn't like it.
I think at the end there were parts that I liked, but overall it wasn't a book I would ever listen to again. Got it.
But so for the, the little summary I have of the book, it says, so it's all the same character, like the same main girl from Time Windows, Miranda and her family.
So it's the same characters, but Miranda isn't happy when sullen orphan Abby Chandler comes to live with her family.But Miranda's anger turns to shock when she learns the girl's horrible secret.
Abby's parents and sisters were killed in a house fire in this very town more than 300 years ago. Somehow Abby survived the fire and has been living in a virtual limbo ever since.
15-year-old Miranda Brown, the extraordinary protagonist from Katharine Rhee's first novel, Time Windows, returns for a new time travel adventure.Yeah! I loved it.Same.If you guys want to give a play-by-play, go for it.
Gave me, like, Back to the Future vibes.In a way.
I think one of my most favorite things was, remember how they're talking about how the house, um, the house that they're trying to save?
Yep.The house that, so Abby, the orphan has this ability to temporarily go back in time to see, and it's always the same timeframe.It's her house is burning down and she's- Had burned down, yes, because they're going through the ashes.
And she knows that she's lost her family.So she's trying to go back.She's tried everything that she could think of to go back sooner to try and stop it, but she can't.She's yelling at people, and they can't see her.
Right, they can't see her when she's back there, back then.
OK, but anyways, back at the house.
So the house that they're, because that's next to the lot. where Abby's house was.And they always thought it was haunted because they could hear somebody crying.
And it was her when she'd go back in time.Remember, she'd be in the, behind the veil, basically.Yep.The wind veil.The wind veil.And she, she would just be crying, sobbing because, and that was actually what was haunting
So it wasn't haunted, but it was haunted.
She wasn't actually trying to haunt the house.
She was there crying and they could hear her.
Correct, yeah.Or at least Miranda could hear crying.
No, but the other people could hear her. they put it together that she'd been the one haunting that spot.What other people?
The other kids.They'd say in their stories of those haunted.The legend.
Oh, I'm with you now.Are you?Yes.It took a moment.I'm sorry.Guys, this was freaking weeks ago.
Yeah, because I listened to this one before the lake house and we saw a couple weeks ago how much I didn't remember about that book.
You did pretty well though.
You did very well.You know, dementia. I keep saying that and we haven't spoken about it at all.I had to do a test to see if I had dementia because I failed.
Well, so I failed the test they give you initially to say whether or not you need more testing.Failed miserably.Had to see if I have dementia.According to my MRI, I don't.So thumbs up.But now it's just a running joke because it was very scary.
So now we make jokes about it.So I'm not making fun of people with dementia.
no you're making fun of yourself i'm just making light of the situation that was terrifying yes so correct so if anybody listens and gets offended we're sorry it's not it's not what i'm saying that or explain why so we explain why i kind of thought like in another episode like a quick i thought that too but i just keep throwing it out there so we needed that we needed that thank you but um yeah i hated this book
Why?Yeah, I was going to say, should we get into it?So here's the thing.First off, I forgot that this was a second book to Time Windows.Like, completely forgot.And so I was listening to it, getting ready for work.
And I was going, god, this seems familiar, but I don't know why.I couldn't figure it out.And Miranda and that name and all this stuff and her parents.And then the second she said Mither, I went, oh! Oh!It's the sequel to Time Windows!Damn it!
Like, I wouldn't have agreed to this if I had known! So that's how I figured it out, that it was the sequel to that.I wouldn't have agreed.It wasn't even your pick.I don't care.I wouldn't have agreed.But so I was like, ugh, god.
And so it started off just like, ugh.Wait, how long did it take?I think she said Mither in the first chapter or two.It was very soon within the book.But as I was listening to it, it must have been chapter two, let's just say.
So off chapter one, I was like, god, this seems familiar. but I don't know why.
Yeah and then she said that and I was like... So I was already not liking it but here's here's the reason I didn't like it.Like the overall story was fine enough.Like it wasn't a bad story or idea or principle or whatever.
I did not like Miranda and her bulls**t self-centered attitude of
mad that this orphan is here, like super f***ing nosy, first off, in her life, and then she comes to live after, so you were nosy, which caused her to then come live with you, because everybody found out she's an orphan.
Now you're pissed that she's living with you, and you're not treating her well, and you're just, uh, just an annoying piece of s***. I just wanted to slap her the whole time.And then she becomes friends with her.Okay, cool.We've moved on.
We've worked through your shit.You're friends with this girl.And then she talks about wanting to kill herself, the orphan who's been living for 300 years miserably and can't whatever.
And then she starts getting all high and mighty of like, you can't kill yourself and there's more to life and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.And it's like,
you didn't live for 300 years crying over your family that you've lost and you can't figure out how to move on or grow up or do any of these things like how dare you you don't know you don't know enough information to have a conversation like this that whole thing of her talking to her about the last couple chapters
It made me so f***ing mad, because this b***h knows nothing about anything, because she's 15, or whatever.So you don't know anything about anything because you're 15.
And then you also, on top of it, this chick has been living for 300 years, so she knows more than you, and she's had feelings that you've never experienced and probably won't.
So, like, shut the f*** up if she says, like, I think I want to kill myself.You don't argue with her and say, no, you shouldn't. you can talk to her and like, whatever, but you don't argue with her and tell her she's wrong.Like, f*** off.
She, I, f*** Miranda.She's just a whiny little s***.It's a whole c*** book.And then gets on her high and mighty horse.
And then at the end when they figure out Abby and like, she can go back or she can start living now and her bruises have healed and her burns have healed and all that kind of stuff, you know, and so it's like, oh, good.
And then she's, and then Miranda's feeling all like, mm, all important because look at me, she can live and they're, see, things are better now.And it's just like, Like, I don't know.And also the whole like massage part.
And I know I think this is weird and you Ellen did not think this was weird, but she's got like a one, like they want to be boyfriend girlfriend, but like she didn't know that right away.So they kind of flirting with her friend.What's his name?Tom.
I don't know.What's the, what's the boyfriend's name?You look that up.Um, Jack.That was the lake house.I think. I was like, oh, yeah, but she like Daniel, Daniel.Yeah.But she like starts giving her massage under her shirt.
And then like, she's thinking your head like, Oh my god, I don't have a bra like whatever.And that whole paragraph was so strange to me.I was like, I don't need to know this.
Why are we talking about your massage you're getting from your not boyfriend boyfriend with no bra on?I don't know.That just, that just grossed me out.I just didn't need to know that information.You do you, I don't need to know that.
So I did actually make notes on this one too. But you guys can speak if you'd like to.
Ellen, what did you think about the book?Well, I liked it.I wish that they would have talked more about the first book. brought a little bit of snippets back in.
Because I feel like they only mentioned the dollhouse up in the attic.Because I feel like they mentioned a dollhouse when her and Abby were sweeping the attic.
Yes, yes.Or whatever they were doing up there.It was her in her room or something.Yeah.But yes.
Yeah, OK.So they just mentioned it once, I feel like, and that was it.
She's like, it looks like my house.And she's like, oh, it was built after this house.It was modeled after this house.
Like, they didn't even talk about the door on the ground that held a dead body.Like that would have been the thing to bring up.Not the stupid doll house.Dollhouse was something too.
It was a key part of her scene.I wish that they would have touched on that more.Because clearly Miranda has some powers.
Right, because she could see into the past, and now this girl, she can hear her, and she knows that something's off.
I don't know if there's another book, though.
Well, on the cover it says, a time travel mystery.I feel like we looked this up on Amazon, and I feel like there was a third one, but it was not the same people.It had none of the same people.I think it was just another time travel.
Interesting.I also wrote my very first note, so I must not have been very far in the book, was every character is exactly the same.
No, no, no, no!Not the same characters from the previous book.It felt like all the characters were written the same way, I guess?I don't know.Did you feel flat?
Yeah, all the characters felt one dimensional, one sided.Did you feel that at all?
A little bit.Okay, so that's not just me.
Right.But I still feel like there was enough where like... You could enjoy it. as I read, you know, I've got kind of that movie reel playing that I could establish, you know, Miranda's friend that I don't know her name.Susan.Susan?Susan.
And I could like picture Dan, I could picture Dan's little brother and just like, there was enough description and detail that I- To be good with it.To be okay with it.
But I get what you're saying.
And that was written pretty early on.So I think as it went on, it probably got a little bit better.But... What else do you have?My notes?Yeah.Yeah.Well, to go back just really quickly, because I didn't realize I wrote this at the end.I made a note.
Again, this was at the end then when she saved Abby's life.I wrote, this is written by somebody that is happy and doesn't understand mental illness.
That's what it felt like to me.I remember you and I having a conversation about that.
It just felt like... I don't know.I don't know.It just didn't feel like... it didn't feel like a good conversation.
Cause like, if you're a kid reading this and then say you were to in real life, have a friend who expresses, you know, thoughts and stuff like that, that that's your reference point for how to have a conversation about that.
And I feel like if you're somebody who's having those thoughts, that is the exact opposite type of conversation you want to have.Like not for, I mean, I guess every person's different.So,
I think that if somebody said, I want to kill myself, you're going to be like, no.An automatic response.
I think that is an automatic response, but I think if you're going to put it in a book for kids, you should maybe think a little bit more about what that conversation is.Sure.
definitely have a disclaimer.Or just like the other book didn't have a disclaimer.
I don't think it needs a disclaimer.I think if, again, if you're putting this in a book and it is for children, and if they were to experience having a friend who says things like that, they are going to go off reference points that they have.
And if it's not a conversation, you know, their parents have had, they're going to go off references off of TV, movies, and books.So this is your reference point of a book and it all worked out well, you know, in the book.
But if you were to say that to somebody who's struggling, that's more than likely going to just either shut them down or push them more away, I think.
So I feel like if you're going to do that, you should have more, I don't know, research or just a different conversation in the book, seeing how that could be a reference point for some kids.That's all.
I wonder if the author ever thinks about that.Her editor should, but...
I mean, it's also 1994 too.So like if it had been written now, it probably would have been a much different conversation because mental health is more talked about and acceptable that, you know, whatever.So, but I, I do have some favorite quotes.
Okay.Let's hear it.Both from Abby.And now the first one is taken completely out of context because in the context it makes total sense, but there was a part where she said, that's why I like old people best because they die.
So she was talking about living with people who are older because she doesn't age and they, they die.So she doesn't have to worry about them being weirded out.Like, why haven't you aged?
But as I was listening to that, I just stopped and started laughing.I'm like, cause that again, just out of context to me is so funny.That's why I like old people best because they die.
And then I also have my second favorite quote, when I'm feeling sad, which is most of the time.
Oh, I don't know.I just thought those were unintentionally funny.
Right.I did have a favorite quote.
Did you have a favorite quote, Ellen?
I don't think so.I read through that.Did you whip through it pretty quick?Like in a Sunday.Because you read this one.I read that one.And I read it.It was a day that Andy and I spent in our recliners reading.
Was there any shut the book and say something to Andy?
I was like, what a good book.
He's like, oh, that's good, honey.
Did you explain it to him with, like, the wind veil and him be like, what?
I'm sorry, what?I know better than to... He doesn't want to.He wouldn't read that, would he?
I mean, pound it out in, like, ten minutes, but... He reads just about everything.He can look at one page... He reads just about everything, yeah.
Your favorite quote.This is... It's the paragraph, basically.Okay.But it's towards the end where, um... Mrs. Wainwright goes, oh, don't you believe it for a minute, my girl, said Mrs. Wainwright.
That's a mistake we often make when thinking about history.But you can be sure the people in Old Garnet were no different from us at all.Their ways may have been different in some of their fears, but at heart they were like us.
They hoped for what we all hoped for.Good health, good friends, a family to love, enough people. sorry, enough food and a place to live.They lived their lives day to day just the same as you and I. That's really all we ever can do.Yeah.
I think that- I wish she had been in it more.Because that was the grandma, right?The grandma of Susan?
yes yes yeah right because who knew abby back when when she was a teacher yes yeah i wish she had been in it more because i did like her and that's a good quote i mean i guess i kind of liked how they started they
woven some witchcraft and the witch trials and all of that.And, you know, what ultimately gave Abby her ability to be saved was the phoenix, you know, from the, yep.
from the Native American chick, right?Yeah.Okay.The witch.Yeah.Quote unquote witch, but just had remedies of medicine from stuff used on the land and oh, she's a witch.And it's like, well, no, actually she just doesn't know how to use stuff.
It doesn't make her a witch.I do.I'm glad they saved her too, when they went back in time and all the guys were coming for her.Cause I was like, if they kill this lady, I swear to God, like, it felt so bad for her, you know?
But... What else you got Mariah?Um, I did like the witchcraft aspect of it.Again, there were parts of it that I did like overall.There were just other big parts that I really did not, but I liked the witchcraft aspect of it.I liked the whistle.
I liked the old house and her, you know, the fire and I don't know, going back in time and seeing her, her people.
Right.I, I guess I do like time travel.
That was that like one of your favorite genres?
Yes.Um, one of my very, my very last note, hang on.
No, no, no.You're good.Okay.Start that again.One of my very last notes was what past or era would you wish to travel back to? Because when they time traveled back to Abby's time, it was like horse and buggy, wasn't it?
Or just walking.Yeah.Like, like women with big skirts and hoops under them, which I do love when they had to find clothes to put on and she's like, I don't have any fucking clothes that would fit in like the 1800s or whatever it was.
But what, so like not, so what, any timeframe I can pick to go back in?
Hmm.That's a good question.
I mean it would have been fun, the big gowns, and like corsets.
And like Downton Abbey time.
Like 1920s, what would have been?20s, 30s?20s into 30s I think they go in that show.That would be fun.I think it would also be fun to go in back into like the
And not necessarily all of the things, but in the 60s, just for the clothes and the style of houses and furniture and things like that would have been cool.There's a lot of stuff that would not have been cool to go back into the 60s, but...
Fashion.Mine would be the 40s for that same reason.
Oh, yeah.Mm-hmm.Mm-hmm.The red lip with the hair.Yes.Yeah.But the 1920s and 30s would be cool too.With like the beads and the... Mm-hmm.Mm-hmm.Yeah.
yeah if you were to go back just for fashion no other let's simplify this question so we don't get in trouble for other things just yeah just for fashion what time would you go would it be the 40s for you 40s well what pops in my head right away is like the victorian era oh yeah with like a victorian house too yeah oh that would be cool 60s would be cool 70s would be cool
80s all of it really I know it's hard to pick one yeah through the 70s that's true yeah like literally like 20s up through 1980s would be all of them would be self-funded I feel like I would thrive in the 80s fashion 100% you would.
What would be the first outfit you would want to put on?
Oh, what would I, what would I put on?I would probably go like 80, well, I would want to try all the different styles, but I would want to try to go like 80s, like punk.Yeah.Yeah.
With like the safety pins through your ears and like a big leather jacket and spiky hair.What kind of pant?Jeans, probably.I feel like cuffed and rolled jeans.Yeah. Like, I would want to go full 80s punk.You did it?Yeah, I love it.
God, I want to see photos.
Me too!We didn't take pictures like you all.
That's unfortunate.So, like, my stuff, because I was maybe 95 pounds back then, and I wore Chucks and skinny jeans, cuffed and rolled, big baggy shirt. purple eyeshadow.Big hair.Big hair.
And then I had, like for prom, like I had, I did the Molly Ringwald hair too where I had it shaved above my one ear and all the rest came over.What?
And uh.Do you have like a prom photo at least?Probably somewhere.Cause if you ever find that.We need to see it.We need to see it.
And, uh, what else did I wear?And then I went to, it used to be downtown.It was a clothing store.Herberger's.No, it was like used or alternative.There was one at the mall too.
So Ragstock used to be downtown St.Cloud at its own store.Interesting.And, um, it was so cool in there and just, so I had this long men's, like businessmen's coat.Blazer type?No, it was like an outside coat.So I wore that a lot.
I was very much on the edge.
Me and you would have been friends in the eighties.Yeah.I think for sure.
And so that's, I probably would have looked the other way.
You would have been very preppy, I think.
But I was, you know, but I was in the color guard.
I did all the things.Yeah.So, yeah.If you were to go back, Mariah, into a different decade for the fashion that you had to wear, what would you pick?Are you still sticking Victorian?
I mean, I just think it would be so cool to try, not like I would now, but like a corset, all the layers.Getting dressed takes like an hour and a half, just to button your dress.To dress myself, me physically dressing myself.
I feel like you would, for your shape, thrive in, like, the 50s.With the A-line skirt.And how everything was so tailored and, like, Joan from Mad Men.
I would have loved that era, too, actually.
It starts in, I think, the very late 50s and then goes into the 60s.But yeah, her whole vibe, I feel like, would be very well suited for both of you, actually. You don't know who I'm talking about, do you?
Well, I've never seen Mad Men.Oh, yeah.Mm-hmm.Yep.
Like, just... That would be my jam.Mm-hmm.Yep, that would be my jam too.Like, you would thrive, I think, if that's what was expected of women as far as the level of...
effort put in you know like you had to be like put together which you are put together anyway now different standard you know different views of what that is or whatever yeah like if you had to be like you would look like this mm-hmm so would you I would look like Peggy in season one
I don't know what she looks like.
I loved her evolution on that show.
Oh, her hair.When she cut her hair off and got the 60s with the cigarette hanging out of her mouth.Yeah, that was really good.Season one.Oh, just hideous. hideous.And she's supposed to be, that's how it starts off.
And then she, you know, finds her path and her style and all her stuff.
Is that the same girl you showed the picture of?
No.Okay, two different people.Yeah, Joan and then Peggy.Gotcha.
Anyway, back to the book.What else did I have?
Yeah, what other notes you got?I got nothing else.I've said my piece.
I had written, did you hope for an alternate ending?Abby finally being able to pass on and be with her family and William.Versus the curse was broken and she was finally able to age.
Do you wish somehow when she, Abby Miranda and Dan were able to go back, you know, to visit Willow.
Do you wish somehow when they were able to kind of break that curse that she remained in that time frame to be able to then grow up with like her brother and her brother's kids and... Well, I think it's two different questions.
Is it she passes on and dies with her family or is it that her family gets to live and she lives with them? Cause if it's- The incident would still happen.So then she would die in the fire.Cause was her body?
No, they never found her body.
Cause she had the whistle, but like, let's just assume that she was in the fire and passed with the family, which is what she had always hoped would have just happened.
I think that I would prefer that how it ended is how it ended because then she got to actually live a life.Sure.Past 13 or whatever, how old she was.So I feel like.
That is what you wish, if there was an alternate ending.
I like how it, I would just pick how it ended.You liked how it ended.Where she gets to just live.Live.And have a life.Experience.
Because I think that's, you know, if she just, if the curse is broken and she goes back and she just dies in the fire with her family, that just seems so unfair.
to like put her through 300 years of bullshit, just to stick her back there so she could die with her family.
Like, no, she should be able to, if she suffered 300 years, she should be able to live a life where she can actually grow up and, you know, do all the things that she wants to do.So, cause I liked Abby.
I think she was my favorite character of all of them.
She could have, we don't know what happened to her boyfriend or her, you know, cause she was married. She was married.
I don't think she had gotten... No, she was married to one guy.
Oh, because they got married young.
Because they got married young.
But what happened to him?
Did he die?I don't know.I thought he died, though.Yeah.But not... Not the brother, but he died.
No.William, who she was not married to, died.Yes.But
she had another oh like when she had after it went in the 300 years yeah he died he died yeah they talked about that because she had gotten married and then he died from like he'd gotten sick and died oh yeah he was i feel like he got sick and died but yeah he passed he didn't live very long after they got married i don't think
I think she had said after the first couple of years and he had passed away.
Yeah.She had a couple of great loves.
Yeah.But so, you know, if it's, she gets to go back in time and live with her family and a fire doesn't happen and everybody doesn't die, I think that would be better.
But didn't really seem like one of the options.Correct.Fire's going to happen.Fire's going to happen.So I think it was better that she got to live.Cause I think she deserved that.And I liked her, so I wanted her to.
Have a happy ending?Be happy, yeah.Is that what you would have done too?Alternate ending?I would have kept it the same.Kept it the same?I think so because how could she go back?
Right.It makes more sense in your brain with how it ended.Yeah.Yeah.
I mean, how could she live?You know, if she went before the fire and saved everybody, but she'll have had still those 300 years that she did live.
Right.Did you, when you wrote that question, is it because you were wanting it, hoping it ended differently?
Well, I think there's, you brought out a lot of good points.I think when I, when I wrote that question that, um, In my mind, I was thinking that her body would have been, like, somehow she miraculously got out of the house.
Yes, she still would have lost some of her family.But she would have had her brother.But she would have had her brother and would have been able to live in her time.Live in her time.Yeah.And age, you know, go through all that.Yep, sure.
But like you said, she went through all of that.
the 300 years with Miranda then.Yeah, like, would she, I don't know, would she have preferred to live and then just live with her brother?
Maybe, I don't know, but I just don't think it would, I don't think she would have lived if she had just, if it had, like, broke, the curse had broken, she had started back, you know, but right before the fire, I think she would have died in the fire.
Right.Yeah, because they were,
eating.Yeah.Cause the only reason that she didn't die is because the whistle saved her, which means she should have died.Because otherwise she would have just like, if she had been knocked unconscious and then woken up, well, she didn't die.
So the whistle wouldn't need to save her.So she would have just lived with her brother and gone on with life.So she did die because the whistle saved her. So in that case, no, she should just live in the current time and carry on.Just carry on.
Find a new love.Yep.She will.Because Miranda is your BFF.Yeah.She's only 313 years old.She's got time.
Oh, let's see.I think that was really... That's kind of all my notes.
Yeah.Well, what would we... Because you guys liked the book.Yep.What would you buy it for?
Just what I paid for it.It said ages 10 and up. on my book.Okay.There's no price on this.Well, what would you pay for it?I would pay... $15.It's kind of what I had in mind too.Like $14.99.Yep.
You?Ten cents at a garage sale.I wouldn't buy this book.
At least it's not that you're gonna ask to return it.
I wish I could.I've returned too many books on Audible.They won't let me return anymore. Like, I wasn't trying to abuse the system, I just was like, I hate this book, can I return it?
And they were like... And it got to a point where they were like, no, not anymore.And I was like, fair enough.
At least they've got a... Fair enough!They've got a... Yeah.
...endcap to that.Which makes sense.Like, you can't just listen to it, return it.You know what I mean?Like, makes sense.
That's called the library.
Right.And that's not what they are.So it makes sense.So I'm okay with that.But no, I can't return it, unfortunately. Well, ten cents at a garage sale, it is.Yeah, and that's a hard maybe.You would just pass along.I would just pass along.
I'd be like, that book sucks, and I'd move on my way.But, so, sorry, Amanda, if you liked that book and you were hoping that we, you know, in your recommendation with Time Windows, that we would also like that book, you got two out of three, so.
I hope I wasn't too harsh.Still a positive.It's a win.Again, there were good aspects of it.Yep.Just overall, I hated it.And I'm glad that there's not a third one because I don't want to read another one of these.
I would read another one of these.
Like if you guys picked it and were like, we really want to read this.Sure.
we wouldn't do that to you thank you i wouldn't do that read it read it your own time i was the one that picked this one because i remember amanda saying that there was there was a sequel and i plugged that away in the old in the old noggin and up in the rack up in the racks up in the racks yeah yeah again i completely forgot because pale phoenix was like oh that sounds cool yeah and then mither and i was like
I will say, though, that she only said it like twice.Thank God, because that really bothered me in time windows.
That was the biggest thing that bothered me, also.I think that all of us were just like, that is stupid and sucks.
No, I remember a Thronson being like, I don't get why you're, why you guys are, why it bothered us so much.
There's so much rage about it.I can't believe there's not rage over on your end for it.Nope, it didn't faze me one bit.
I remember that from time when I just thought we all equally hated Mither.No, I was you and I. At least I got somebody in on that one this time for something I hate.
I was just happy it was twice in this book.I was like, okay.
Yeah.And we, nobody else was weirded out by the massage.No, just you.Okay.
I remember you sent that text message.You, you, I don't know what it was like WTF chapter five.Yeah.Yep.
And then, and then nobody said anything.Cause we weren't, neither one of us were there yet.Well, no.And then when he got there, I was expecting somebody to text back and be like, gross.I can't believe they did you?I did.
Cause I was like, maybe, Maybe Catherine Reese had a very scandalous, um, maybe she was scandalous when she was 13 or something like that, where it, I mean, it didn't phase me, was I like, huh?She's not 13, though.She's 15.Oh, she's 15.Okay, sorry.
It's completely appropriate behavior for a 15-year-old.
Right.I guess it, was I surprised that some of the verbiage was in here?It just felt so weird.Kind of.
But it didn't bother me.It just felt unnecessary. I don't need to know all this shit.Like, you shut your door and keep that shit private.Stop writing your thoughts down in this book.I mean, their door was shut and it was private.
Oh, yeah.Yeah.I don't know.Like, if I was the mother of a 15-year-old boy and his best friend was a girl and then she was coming over, going in the bedroom, shut the door.Uh-uh.Doors open.
door off the hinges no absolutely not because you know what's going to happen next yep and then suddenly somebody's pregnant like we don't need that happening so i wish like the mom would have been a little bit more like what the fuck are you guys doing no open the door no she's super trustworthy she's she's uh
what they own the house that's the museum the museum so like they're very well known in town yeah and what a scandalous story it's gonna be when he knocks somebody up yep teen pregnancy yep i he just wanted he wanted to take the next step in the relationship move it ahead and she was just kind of weirded out but she also wanted it i also think she didn't get it right away oh 100 she did it and i was like girl
pay attention what are you a boy come on it took it took until the dinner for him to literally spell it out and say it for and usually it's the other way around where like the guys don't get it and the girls like preoccupied by abby that's what it says true she was yeah she had other things on her mind that is true turmoil yeah so yeah no i wouldn't was not weirded out okay yeah just me then
Any other last minute thoughts?No.
I don't think so.I liked it.I'd read it.Good.I'm glad you guys liked it.
I wish the font was a little bit easier to read.Did it hurt your Cadillac eyes?Kind of.Kind of.I mean.Oh, fuck that.
It gave me like typewriter.
I dug it.And no pictures, I'm assuming.No.No pictures.Okay.I didn't think so.No.I don't know how they would illustrate this book.You know.
They didn't the other one either.
Well, we're yawning so we should shut it down so we can get the last two episodes.
Okay, so that was Pale Phoenix by Catherine Ramirez, Triumph's Ghost Ballerinas.Follow us on Instagram and Facebook at Triumph's Ghost Ballerinas.You can email us at tgballerinas at gmail.com.
Please, for the love of God.
Alright, we're out.Goodbye.Bye!Goodbye!
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