Moving from the closet booth to the…car booth? Anne and Pilar finish telling the story of Pilar’s Journey in Part 3 of the Boss Voces premiere. Listen as Pilar finally packs her car (+ her cat!) and moves to LA in hopes of establishing her VO career and signing with a big agency. It's been a wild ride, but things are really coming together now on the West Coast for Pilar... More at: https://www.voboss.com/pilars-journey-part-3 Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm so happy to welcome back to the show special guest cohost Pilar Uribe. Pilar, hey, how are you today? Pilar: I'm doing great. How are you? Anne: I'm doing great. Hey, I have been so interested in your story, and we've learned so many things that are parallels to being in the voiceover industry today from your story. So our last couple of episodes, we talked about your telenova star personalities in Colombia and your -- I think it was nine years you were there in Colombia doing all kinds of acting -- Pilar: That's right. Anne: -- and some radio as well. And then you moved on to Miami, and we're talking to us about your radio career in Miami and how you evolved into that and also in voiceover. And now we're on when your next move, which it's so interesting, you moved from Colombia to Florida, to Miami, and I, I think it was all just things seem to take you where you needed to go to evolve in your career. And I think that's such a cool parallel with my experience as well. And hopefully BOSSes that are listening out there kind of have some similarities as well. So I'd love to hear about your, I guess what made you go from Miami to LA, and let's, let's continue the journey with you. Pilar: So I'm in Miami, and my, as I said, in the last episode, my land lady, she actually wrote me an email saying, I'm so sorry, but I'm going to sell the apartment. Anne: And you were there for how long? Pilar: 16 years. Anne: Wow. Pilar: Yeah. So my first thought was total and utter panic because I was like, oh my gosh, I have to get out of this apartment that I've lived in. And I've sort of made a life for myself. And I started looking around. I had been working with somebody. We've had like a 25 now, yeah, more than 25-year conversation with his really good friend of mine in New York and something that he used to say to me. I had started getting a little bit sort of, I want to do something else, but I'm not really sure what it is. You know, I, I've got four jobs and I've got the radio host thing, and it's just, you know, it's, I'm always hustling, and it would be nice to be able to do more voiceover. But you know, Miami is not a lot, a lot of opportunity there, unless it's in my booth. And he said something to me, because I was like, you know, I think I need to. And he would say until you decide to pack your bag, you're not going to move. And he said that to me for years. And I take it now is it's not just a physical thing. It's sort of a, if I want to do something, I have to go ahead and do it. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: Because I can talk about it -- Anne: You have to pack your bag. Pilar: -- until the cows. Yeah. So like, I can talk about it until the cows come home. But if I don't actually do it and decide to make a change, I'm never going to do anything, you know? Anne: Yeah. I love that. I love that. There you go manifestation again. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: Especially for those BOSSes that are early in their careers, and they don't know, and they think about it, and they think this is what they want to do, but yeah. Actually taking the step and the, the physical part of yes, making that decision, putting the things in place, and it helps it come to fruition. Pilar: Exactly. So I didn't tell anybody, and this is something that I'm very conscious of. A lot of the times I would sit there, like I wrote like 17 or 18 songs when I lived in Colombia. And so I said, you know, I'm, I have songs and I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I would tell everybody that I was gonna put out an album eventually. I never put the album out, but I told everybody I was going to do it. And a lot of the times when you say things like that, you leak your energy. So when you have an intention in your mind, it's really important to keep it within yourself, um, and share it with people that you can trust and be aware that it's not something that you need to sit there and gab and gab and gab and gab about, but that you really need to focus on what it is that you're doing. And I think that, that's what I, I mean, I did that for a while, and I would sit there and I would complain, and I'd be like, oh, you know, I want more. And I'm really kind of in love with this thing called voiceover, but I don't really know what it is. And so I decided to just go ahead and kind of be quiet and say, okay, if I'm going to do something -- because I'd been doing it for 10 years and everything that I got was actually I got it. I didn't have an agent. I didn't, I, you know, had the on-camera agents, but I was doing voiceover. So I thought, okay, what, where can I go? And so VO Atlanta was coming up. And so I just thought, well, let me, let me check out Atlanta, because I love Atlanta. I've been there a few times, and I went and I saw these people and it was really wonderful. And then I thought, let me go. There was a, I think it was a WoVo was having a small, like a little mini session in San Francisco. So I thought, let me, let me go there. But once I left to go there, there was something about it. As much as I loved Atlanta, Atlanta was, I mean, at that point, um, this is two years ago now going on three, it's really, it, it definitely has a very strong voiceover, but it was more for on camera. And I realized I really want to focus on my voiceover, you know? And, and I had always thought, I mean, I always knew that in LA, you know, LA for me, it was like the Olympic village. And I was like, do I want to, I've always dreamed of going to LA and this, my friend Dale has been telling me would tell you, pack your bag. Anne: Yeah. LA is weird dreams coming true. Right? People move to LA with their dreams. Pilar: Right, exactly. What was it that they say in -- "what do you wish for? It your dream!" Was it that -- it was this great guy at the very beginning of "Pretty Woman." Anne: Oh! Pilar: He says it at the very beginning. Anne: Oh yeah. Pilar: And he says it at the very end. Anne: Yup. Pilar: "What do you wish for?" It was, it's really cool. So I went to San Francisco and then I went and I spent a few days with a friend in LA. And as soon as I got there, I was like, oh, I'm supposed to be here. And I just knew. Anne: Yup, yup. Pilar: I just, it was like, I arrived. And I just knew that that was the place. Anne: Yup. Pilar: So I went back to Miami and I started setting intentions, just like I had when I moved to Colombia. I was like, okay, I'm just going to start setting my intentions here. And I was like, okay, I'm going to need a place to live. And I had time before I had to leave. So this is like in March, March/April, and I had a lead from a very kind person who wrote a letter to Atlas Talent, and it turned out and of course, it's the universe, because they were looking for bilingual voiceover talent. Anne: There you go. Pilar: So I get this email, and they're like, we'd like to have a meeting. And I was like, oh my gosh, they want to have a meeting? They want to have a meeting with me? Are you kidding? I was like, I, so I didn't want to tell them that I wasn't there yet. So I was like, you know, I'm in the process. So I wrote them back and I said, you know, thank you so much. I'm in the process. I'll let you know when I get there. Anne: Now, can I ask you how long ago this was? Pilar: Two years ago. It's going to be three years. Anne: Okay. And it's so interesting because again, the timing of everything, right? I feel like it's important to me. We're really coming into, you know, inclusivity and diversity and needing bilingual and more and more and more. So that makes sense to me. Pilar: Yes. And, and that will play later -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- into that. So I started packing, I started throwing things away. I started giving things away because I realized I can't move with all my stuff. 'Cause it was just, it was just too expensive. So I had to, you know, sell, give away, donate. And I got July 19th, 2019, I got into the car. I packed all my stuff, and with my kitty, with Paco. Anne: And drove across the country. Pilar: I drove across the country. I picked up a very good friend of mine who actually, we started out almost -- I met him almost as soon as I got to, uh, Miami ,Aaron, Aaron Goldenberg. And he is an actor as well. He was living in Atlanta at the time, but I flew him back from Atlanta to Miami on my frequent flyer miles. And we drove across the country, which I highly recommend. I mean, you know, this is -- Anne: With a cat. Pilar: Of course. Anne: With a cat. Pilar: With a cat, of course. I highly recommend -- Anne: How was your booth kitty in the car for a cross-country trip? That would be interesting. Pilar: I have to tell you, he was really good considering, you know, of course there was meowing going on. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: I never let him out of the car. I mean, I never let him out of his travel bag because, you know, that's just not a good idea with -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- with cats, but he was really good. Anne: What about when you stay -- I can't imagine you did the drive in one fell swoop. Pilar: No, no, no, no, no. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: It took us seven days. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: We would drive, I would park some litter in the bottom of the car. I had some litter there and I had water there. And so what I would do is that I would take him out when we would do rest stops. I would take him out and we would leave him alone. We would close the car. We would leave him the most. So he would check it out. He never went to the bathroom in my car. Anne: Oh my gosh. Pilar: I have to -- yeah, no. So what would happen is when we would get to a place, I would immediately, the first thing I would do was I would set up his kitty litter box with a little portable thing that I had, and I would put it in the closet usually so he would have privacy and he would go immediately. So -- Anne: I can't imagine them holding it for like an eight-hour ride. Like -- Pilar: I know. And the thing is, it was right there. That's what was so obnoxious that he wouldn't go. And I had the kitty litter there for him, but he refused to go. So, you know, whatever. Anne: We digressed, we digressed -- Pilar: We digressed, yes. Sorry. Anne: -- into the studio -- into the studio cat -- Pilar: Yes. Anne: -- conversation. But I'm sorry, I had to, I had to ask. Pilar: But it can be done. I'm just, I'm telling you now, Anne, it can be done if you want to go across with the kitties, it can be done. Anne: See, we manifested it. We manifest -- we manifest our kitties as well. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: Crossing the country. Pilar: Um, yeah. So it was, it was, it was great. I saw the most beautiful parts of this country. I was like, it's, it's really, when you realize, for those of you living in the States -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- you just realize the vastness of this country and how amazing it is. You just, you really don't get that um, you know, when you fly in. Driving, it was, it was just, it was such a great experience driving through all across -- all of the states. Anne: That's what I'm going to do when I retire. Pilar: It's definitely worth doing. Anne: Yup. Pilar: So we, we arrived in Phoenix, and Aaron had to fly back for a gig. So I dropped and we -- that had that already been planned. So I dropped him off in Phoenix, and it was close enough that I could, you know, drive the rest of the way myself. It's like 600 miles. So it was long. But I had, I had done that before. So I drove. And then when I was literally inside LA, when I was literally inside, when I was inside the -- in California, I took a picture. I was like, okay, I've reached California. So I took a little, a little post -- I did, I just did a little Instagram post. And when I got within the confines of LA county, when I knew I was within LA county, I stopped the car. I pulled to the side of the road. I stopped the car, and I sent an email so the agent would know that I was there because I didn't want to lie about that I was there when I wasn't. So I was like, okay, I'm already physically here. So then they know. So then they wrote me back pretty quickly after that. And they said, you know, we're every, and it was, you know, it was the summer. So everybody was on vacation. So I got to LA, I wrote them and I, I saw them like about two weeks after I arrived. I arrived at a friend's house. And then I started doing Airbnb, and then I found a place through a good friend, Randy Thomas. She found me -- a friend of hers had a room. So I rented a room, this dear man. So I just started living basically out of my car. I just, I had all this stuff, obviously. So I took some stuff out, but I would live out out of my car because like, what else am I going to do? Anne: Right. Pilar: I can't bring all that stuff 'cause it wouldn't fit in this room. Anne: And this is before, this is before pandemic. Pilar: This is way before pandemic. Anne: Yeah. Okay. Pilar: Yeah. So, so I'm, I'm -- Anne: Well, not so far, actually. Pilar: No, no, no, no, not that far. No, because this is August. This was August. So -- Anne: Right, pandemic March. Pilar: Yeah. This was the August, 2019. Anne: Okay. Because was it 2020? Pilar: Yeah, yes. Anne: Where have the years gone? Pilar: Yes. I know, exactly. We went through a whole year and a half. Right? It's already -- Anne: Didn't we have two years of pandemic? I'm not sure. Pilar: Yeah, we're about to reach two years of pandemic, yes. Anne: So okay, so you're about a year before the pandemic then. Pilar: Yeah. Six months. Anne: Oh, okay. Pilar: Nine months, nine months. Anne: Okay, nine months. Pilar: Nine months. So -- Anne: Like a pregnancy, like -- Pilar: Exactly, like a pregnancy. Exactly. So I had nine months ,and that's really important. Anne: Yes. Pilar: So I, I, um, I, I go to the agent. I, you know, I get all dolled up and I, I get there super early to the appointment with the agents, and they were like, so incredible. So nice. So normal. I was like, wow, okay, this is just, and they asked me questions. And so I, I, you know, I give them my stuff. I give them my little, you know, my little elevator pitch, which by the way, everybody needs an elevator pitch. That's really important to have an elevator pitch. That's what I'm discovering is like, you know, just basically like a little minute of your life. Anne: Sure. Pilar: You know? Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: And so then they, you know, they asked me, they said, do you want to freelance? Which is what I had been doing for 16 years, because Miami is a right to work state, so with all my on-camera agents. And I didn't, I didn't have any experience with, with VO agents. And they said, do you want to freelance? Do you want to, you know, sign? And I was like, oh, where's the page where I can sign on the dotted line? I was like, I'm not, I'm not freelancing if you're giving me this choice, I'm signing, you know, because obviously California is not a right to work state. It's like, you sign with an agent, you're done. So I was like, yep, I'm on board. And then afternoon, they sent me an audition. And I was like, okay, how do I do this? So I became really good at auditioning inside my car. Anne: Tell me about your setup in the car. Pilar: So the setup is, it's actually, it's a really cool setup. So you sit, you have to sit in the backseat. You pull the seat all the way to -- forward. And I have a Sennheiser 416. Anne: Yup. Pilar: So you pull the seat all the way forward. You sit on -- and, you know, it's, it's, it's a maneuvering situation to get your butt in the bottom of the car, not on the seat, but on the floor of the car. Anne: And we'll share a picture of this setup on our website, on the VO BOSS website. Pilar: Totally. Oh yeah. Anne: I would love to share. Pilar: Oh, I have it. I have it. I have a picture. Yeah, totally. Totally. And then the laptop goes on the back seat, and then I've got my Focusrite 2i2 there as well. And then little, you know, the cables. And then I've got my Sennheiser with a stand in the middle of where the, on the -- Anne: Console, on the console? Pilar: On the console. Anne: Okay. Pilar: No, in the middle of where the front seats are. Anne: Yes, yes. Right. Pilar: So it's that little it's, it's not on top of where the dashboard is, but it's in the middle. So I'm sitting down, and I'm looking -- Anne: I call that the console. Pilar: Oh, you do? Okay. We call that -- Anne: Well, I do, the console in between the seats. Pilar: Yeah. Okay, cool. Cool. Cool. Yeah. Okay, cool. It's like, I'm not familiar with that lingo. Sorry. I'm not that advanced! So I don't know why they used to call -- we used to call them jump seat -- the jump parts. I don't know, whatever. Anyway, so I'll take a little table. I'll call it the table. So I'd put my set, the, the holder, the mic holder and the Sennheiser. Anne: Yup. Pilar: And I would start doing auditions from there. 'Cause I originally, I had a, uh, a dear friend who would also let me use his studio, but sometimes I couldn't get to the studio in time if it was quick. Anne: Right, right. So it's not like you were living out of your car. I mean, you had a place to stay; you just didn't have a booth. Pilar: I didn't have a booth. Yeah. And the thing is I didn't have room. Anne: Yeah. And so your car acted as the booth. Pilar: Exactly. My correct as the booth. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: And so I had the trunk of my car was filled with stuff -- Anne: Sure. Pilar: -- because I couldn't take everything out, 'cause it just wouldn't fit in the room that I was living in. You know? Anne: Yes. Pilar: So like when I wanted to wear something different, I would go and get something out of the car -- Anne: Go in the trunk. Pilar: -- and then -- yeah, exactly it was, it was actually kind of an easy way to live, you know? Anne: Right? Pilar: -- 'cause I, I didn't have that much. Anne: Minimalist. There you go. Pilar: So it was perfect. And then this guy had a garage. So sometimes when I needed real quiet, because it was -- the lawn mower situation -- Anne: Yup, yup. Pilar: -- in California is just a nightmare and a half. There's always lawn blower, leaf blowers everywhere every day. So I would go and I would park the car, and I would, and this was summer. This was still summer. This was August. I was, I was just sweat like a pig. Anne: Sweltering in the back seat there. Pilar: Totally. But it was perfect because I was really, it was like, I was insulated. Anne: But not like Miami. I can't imagine if you were in -- Pilar: No, no. Anne: -- a car in Miami. Pilar: Oh no, that would be horrible. No, I would. I would be, you know, they wouldn't find me. I'd be asphyxiated. It'd be so bad. Anne: So you did your first audition in the car. Pilar: I did my first -- Anne: For Atlas. Pilar: Yeah, I did my first audition -- I think I did my first -- yes, for Atlas. Yeah, absolutely. 'Cause that was, that was like the first I, I needed a place to go. So that's where I did it. And then I did it at this friend's house as well. A lot of the times, you know, I would come in and I would, I would do like three or four, you know, auditions. I did them for five months, five months. Okay? So I would audition. I finally found again, it was, I wanted a quiet place. I asked for a place. I found this wonderful woman who's also a voiceover person. And she had converted her closet, not her closet, but this other house where she had, uh, she had, she used to do it. So it was actually already sort of treated. It was already a treated space where I'm, where I'm talking to you from now. So it was, it was perfect. Anne: Ah, so you're still in the same place? Pilar: Oh yeah. I'm still at the same place. Anne: There you go. Pilar: You know, when I found the place, it was a matter of, I asked around and this person said, oh, I have this friend of mine who's looking for somebody. So it was just, it was so perfect. It was one of these aha moments. I was like, this is it. This is where I'm supposed to live. I saw the place. And I was like, I want, you know, this is where I want to be. And the first day that I moved in, I had not finished moving in when I had it professionally treated and everything set up here where I'm speaking to you from now. So it was perfect. And I just auditioned and I auditioned. And when I say this am, I mean, it, I didn't get one gig. Anne: So for five months, you auditioned and you auditioned. Pilar: I got zero and I, yeah. I took classes of course, 'cause I realized, oh, this is a different scenario. I'm in the Olympic village of voiceover. Anne: Sure. Pilar: This is not, you know, we're not in Kansas anymore. Anne: Right. And when you auditioned, what sorts of opportunities -- were they bilingual? Were they English? Spanish? What were they? Both. What did they send you? Pilar: They were everything. It was like, they were everything. And it was like, oh my gosh, stuff that I would never have been able to do if I was in Miami. Now this was pre-pandemic. Anne: Yup. Pilar: Obviously the situation has changed, but it was also a testament to my agents who were like willing to put me out there because you know, they're always talking and there's always feedback obviously. Anne: Sure. Pilar: So I would get auditions for McDonald's. Well, I would never, I've never been able to do that in Miami. Anne: Hold on a minute. I'm going to back the truck up there for a minute because you say there's always feedback. So with great agents, I think you get great feedback. Pilar: Yes. Anne: And if you are actively requesting feedback, I think that that can very much help. I know there's -- some people never get feedback. I think that that is something that is very different. And when you're shopping around for agents, and agents are shopping around, it really is a partnership. And I think that if you want a great agent, they will, they will be absolutely willing to give you feedback and help to propel your career. Just like you're going to help them get clients. Pilar: Exactly. And you just made a really good point because it's a partnership. Anne: Yup. Pilar: It's not, oh, the agent is up there, and I'm down here or, "oh, you work for me. You got to get me the rules." No, no, no, no, no. Anne: Right, exactly. Pilar: It's not a community. It's like, you've literally created a community. Now, the agents won't say anything until you ask them. Anne: Yes, absolutely. Pilar: If I'm in the driver's seat, I need to drive my career. So I need to ask for that. And I have to be able to, you know, put my ego to the side -- Anne: Yes. Pilar: -- and listen to what they're saying. Anne: Yes. Pilar: And not say, oh, well, they don't know what they're talking. They don't know that. You know, it, it really is. It's a, it's a real give and take. It's about giving it. It's about receiving. Anne: So now in your five months, when you were not booking, were you asking for feedback? Pilar: Not at the beginning, but then I asked for who do you recommend that I study with? Anne: Right, right. Pilar: And they were like, okay, we have this and this and this. And I was like, okay, great. And I also asked other, I asked a lot of other voiceover people. I was like, well, who do you recommend here? Who do you -- so then I started taking classes. Anne: Sure. I think what's nice is that they, first of all, I would feel like because they are a large talent agency and a very well-known one. The fact that they gave you the opportunity, like if it were, I think any normal person going through that, and I'd start to be, oh my gosh, I haven't booked for five -- you know, it would start to psych me out. Oh my gosh, what if they drop me? Or what if, and it could be a nerve-wracking kind of situation. If you feel like, well, there's gotta be something that needs to change here. So you want to book for your agent. Pilar: And you know what the thing is, Anne? To me, it's a testament to my agent, the agency that I have, and I feel really blessed. They were very -- it's not -- they knew that I was there. They knew that I was new, and they were -- Anne: They had faith in you. Pilar: -- it's not that they were hands off. Anne: They had faith in you, right? Pilar: Exactly. And there was somebody that I talked to in the office one time, because I was just like really freaking out at one point. I was like, oh my God, they must think -- Anne: Yeah, I can imagine. Pilar: -- who is this person? Why did we hire her? You know, it's like, she's not doing anything. And she was so nice and to the point, and she's like, you know what? It was almost like she said -- she didn't say it this way, but what she meant from that conversation was we know you're a newbie. That's why we're throwing it all out at you. We're giving you the space to do this. Anne: Nice. Pilar: So, uh, and I can't, I can't remember how she said it, but that's what I walked away from. Anne: Sure. Pilar: And I was like -- walked away with -- Anne: Sure. Pilar: -- and I thought, oh, thank God. You know, I'm not -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- like I'm not going to be fired immediately. You know what I mean? Anne: What a nice, what a nice testament to really a working partnership and that your agent has faith in you, and they're giving you -- Pilar: Yes. Anne: -- that space. And I think obviously they had to have known when they first spoke to you, when they first met you, that you had the wherewithal to be successful from whatever, from your past experience, from your personality, from your drive, whatever it was, they had that faith in you, and they kept that faith in you. So that's a really nice, that's a really nice story. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: I'm hoping that our listeners will take that for what it is, because I think getting an agent and having an agent and having a relationship with an agent is something we could have a whole podcast episode about -- Pilar: Yeah, yeah. Anne: -- in regards to the, how to work together as a partnership. Pilar: Yeah. And, and, and I think for me, what was really great was that I was willing to listen to them, and I was also willing to be transparent with them. Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: So they knew, they knew where I was coming from. I mean, they knew that I had radio experience because I have all this stuff on my website. Anne: Sure. Pilar: But they also knew that I was very new to the business in terms of commercial versus all these other genres in the world that they live in. Anne: Sure. Absolutely. Pilar: And they were willing to give me that latitude. Anne: Great. Pilar: So transparency, I think, is really important in this world. Anne: Oh, I completely agree. Pilar: And to be able to turn it into something of, not that I don't know this -- into, I'm very willing to learn -- Anne: How can I -- Pilar: -- and I'm willing to work hard, yeah. Anne: -- how can I learn? How can I, yeah. I'm eager to learn. There you go back to, back to your roots there. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: I may not know, but I am absolutely eager to learn. And I think there's a lot to be said for that in just an overall mentality about what we do every day in our -- I mean, there's always opportunities to learn, and you're talking to an educator here, one that was in front of the classroom for 20 years. We always, always have an opportunity to learn and to improve. And I think that if you take nothing else away from our episode, absolutely, this is one of them. And there's always ways, if you're transparent, if you want to learn, you're eager to learn, people appreciate that. And agents, especially, I think appreciate that. Pilar: Absolutely. Yep. I totally agree. Anne: So five months, nothing. Then what? Pilar: Then I booked this job and -- Anne: Commercial? Pilar: Commercial. It's a commercial job. And I will never forget when the check came in. I thought they'd made a mistake. I almost called them and said, you've, you've made a mistake because this has gotta be wrong. Luckily I called a friend of mine. I al -- I literally, I had my hand on, on the press send a button. I thought we just call a really good friend of mine back east who's a voiceover. And she started laughing when I told her. She said, no Pilar, that's the right amount. This is what it means when you are a union actor, to get paid in the industry. So I was like, oh, thank God. I'm going to be able to pay my bills. Anne: Yup. Pilar: And then that was the end of January. And then in March, the pandemic hit and I was ready. And so I just, I started booking. I just started booking and booking and booking. Anne: Success begets success. Pilar: Yeah. Yeah. Anne: Fantastic. Wow. What a great story. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: What a great story. And so now during this pandemic, you're still in the same place, right? Except now you have -- Pilar: Yes. Anne: -- you don't have to necessarily record in the back of your car because you have a studio, which is awesome, which is where you are talking to me now from. And you are, I hope just a booking machine. And now is Atlas your only -- I imagine you have more than one agency or is Atlas pretty much your agency you're working with right now? Pilar: Well, I was with Stars before I was with Atlas, and they were, you know, they were okay with it. You know, and they're, they're totally okay with having other regional agents that are not, you know, in their market. I've looked around for others. But you know, when I started looking around the pandemic had hit. So they were really swamped. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: So they're really my go-to people right now. Anne: Sure. Pilar: You know, it's, it's not easy because yes. I had a huge glut in 2020, and then 2021 was a lot quieter. It's been a lot quieter than I expected because I, you know, it was just the, I don't, if it was, I was the new kid on the block or what it was. And so, you know, for me, it's like finding other ways to be creative -- Anne: Sure. Pilar: -- and to be able to support myself in that way. And so it's like, I'm constantly learning, you know? And if there's, if there's one thing that I can, a takeaway for me, from what I've been talking about is that I always have a beginner mindset. So if there's a place where I'm feeling stuck, because this is an area, let's say, where I'm not booking, it's like, okay, what other ways can I find -- Anne: Sure. Pilar: -- to do it creatively? Anne: And to evolve, right, as an artist. Pilar: And to evolve. Exactly. Because it's not just about booking the big, you know, commercial job. Anne: Sure. Pilar: It's about how can I incorporate everything that I've learned, and how can I maybe use that in a different way? Anne: And I'll tell you what I, what I love is first of all, your story is so wonderful because you try, you have faith, you manifest, you move. And while you struggle, you know, and fail sometimes, you ultimately come out where you become successful. And it has happened from the story that has evolved here to you multiple times. So each time when you move, you're growing, you're hitting those stumbling blocks. You're growing, you're finding success. And even now you came to LA, you got the agent, you got the jobs, you did really well. Now you hit a little bit of a lull. And so again, you're going through that cycle of how can I improve? How can I grow? What can I do to, to learn? And I think it's such a wonderful testament to how our industry works and how the artistry works of voiceover, where we just must continuously learn. We must continually take those chances. We must continually learn from our failures, right, and put into practice things that we can do to be successful. And what a great story. I absolutely love it. So I want to take the time now to thank you again for telling the story and helping us in being so inspiring. Because I think in our next episodes, I really want to get more into the nitty gritty of the day to day voiceover career that you are now embracing and, and living so that we can talk about how BOSSes out there can, you know, maybe do the same so that they can be successful. Pilar: Absolutely. And I'm very, very excited to keep going. Anne: Yeah. All right. Well, BOSSes, I'm going to give a great, big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. Guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Take care. Bye-bye. Pilar: Bye, fellow BOSSes. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Ok, Bosses. We’re picking up right where we left off…in Miami! Anne & Pilar continue discussing Pilar’s Journey in Part 2 of the Boss Voces Premiere. Pilar begins in Miami with no TV gigs and begins her radio + voice dubbing career. More at https://www.voboss.com/pilars-journey-part-2 Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I'm honored to bring back special guest cohost Pilar Uribe. Pilar is a bilingual voice actor, telenova star, and radio personality born and raised in New York City. She broke into show business and had roles with "Ugly Betty," "Poor Pablo," "Eternally Manuela," and "El Cartel" filmed in Colombia and Miami. And in our last episode, we talked about her story, and we ended up from Colombia, now she's arrived in Miami, so we're going to continue the story today. And before that, I want to say that she also has booth a booth kitty, and outside of my booth right now, Pilar, is my cute little Sabrina cat who is jealous because the door is closed, and I know she wants to come in, so. She's -- she wants to come in and talk to you as well. Pilar: I love it. I love it. Anne: Pilar, it's so great to have you back. Pilar: I am so glad to be here. Thank you, Anne. Anne: And what an amazing story, like I said, triple, quadruple threat, TV, radio, voiceover, singer. I mean, you have done it all. And what an interesting, wonderful story you had telling us last episode about your theater experience, your television experience, and your success story in Colombia. And you decided to come back to the States and decided to move to Miami. Pilar: Yes. Anne: So let's pick up from your arrival in Miami and your career once you got there. Pilar: So I get to Miami, and I am staying with my cousins who live in Key Biscayne. I'm thinking I'm all that, you know? I'm this telenovela star. I'm -- where do I sign? Luckily I got, I got an agent really quickly because a friend of mine introduced me to this friend who was a casting director. And the casting director met with me and said, hey, you know, there's this agent. And so I get this agent really quickly and, and she starts sending me out. Anne: So yeah, this is an agent, not a voiceover agent, but you had just started when -- Pilar: No. Anne: -- you were, at the tail end, I think when you were at Colombia, you said you started doing some voiceover for an animated series. So this agent is on camera -- Pilar: Yeah, this is, this is -- Anne: -- casting agent? Pilar: Yeah, my whole up until now, my whole concentration was acting. It wasn't -- Anne: Got it. Pilar: -- voice acting because that's how I had made my bread and butter for the previous nine years. Anne: Sure. Pilar: And so the, the voice acting that I did in Colombia and, you know, the fascination I had with radio, it was just kind of like a, a fun thing. You know? It was just kind of like a fun thing, but I didn't look at it as anything kind of anything serious. So I get this on-camera agent, and I start auditioning and she sends me out on audition and auditions and auditions and I get nothing. And I'm like, oh dear. Okay. Anne: Interesting. You talked before about how you had set visions, right? Pilar: Yep. Anne: And you meditated? Pilar: Yep. Anne: Did you go back to that once you were in Miami? Pilar: No. Anne: Interesting. Pilar: I did not. I did not. Not at the beginning. Okay? The one thing that is probably been a constant my entire life is the importance of training. So even while I was on television every night, I was taking acting classes, and I did them periodically and I worked with some great people in Colombia. And so then I realized, ooh, I'm not booking. I had better get on the horn, and I had better start going back. And so I started taking auditioning classes because I just, I had really stopped auditioning, you know. I'd, I would audition for a role and I would get it, you know? It was just kinda like -- Anne: Sure. Pilar: -- kind of thing. Anne: I was gonna ask you, if you note, what were differences, right, when you were in Colombia versus Florida, what differences in the auditioning process or differences in, I dunno, anything in terms of getting roles? What was different that you noticed? Pilar: Well, for one thing, the community is, was much larger. So there was a lot more competition. Anne: Got it. Pilar: Which means that people were way more polished in their auditions. It was very, very much more competitive. So I realized because I was out of practice. Auditioning was not something that I was doing on a, on a regular basis. When I was living in New York, the -- I did that on a regular basis. And you know, one of the things that I learned in, in Miami from a very close friend of mine, he said, auditioning is the job. Acting is what you get to do once in a while. Auditioning is the job, acting as the hobby. Anne: Yeah. Similar to voice acting. Right? Pilar: Exactly. So I started, I started doing that, and, uh, I started getting better at auditioning. And I started actually booking theater roles. So I became pretty, pretty regular in booking theater gigs, which I loved because I got to, you know, I, I got to go back to, you know, when I used to do it a lot more after college and stuff, but still, you know, that didn't really pay the bills. One thing that I would notice was that the theater actors, they would talk about how they were going to the studios, dubbing studios, or they were coming to where they grew up going from. And I was like kind of curious, you know, what's, what's this whole dubbing thing about? And so a friend of mine said, well, you know, why don't you go to this studio? And so I, I called somebody up and it was a friend of a friend. And so I went and I auditioned, and that's the very first time I saw like a studio with different booths. And, and I thought, oh, this is really interesting. And so I was dubbing from another language, and they were all in Spanish. They were doing all these dubbing, these, these telenovellas from Spanish into English. And so -- Anne: Did you have any training in it previously or was it just something that you kind of picked up? Pilar: Zero, yet again, just like when I went down to Colombia, I had very little training and in TV, and then I, I had no training in, in doing this. Anne: But then you had all experience in television and being in television -- Pilar: Yes. Anne: -- so that I'm sure helped you in your dubbing experience because you already knew what it was like to be the actor, right, on camera. Pilar: Right. Anne: And now you could absolutely, probably just parallel that with dubbing. Pilar: Exactly. So the acting part of it was the important part of it. Anne: Yeah. Yup, exactly. Pilar: But there's the technical side of it, which is you have to match lips and as they say out here, lip flaps, so you have to figure that part out. So I auditioned a lot. Didn't get very far and I continued. I continued to do my theater and I did a little bit of commercials. Anne: Now, at this time, was it all in Spanish or was it both? Pilar: No, it was all dubbing from Spanish into English. Anne: Okay. Pilar: Yeah. It was 100% or from -- but I was just auditioning, you know. So I auditioned, I would say I auditioned quite a few times, and then I actually got a gig. Anne: Meaning, well, I guess my question would be like, were you auditioning for roles in Spanish or both Spanish and English at the time auditioning? Pilar: So here's the thing, my experience up until this moment was only with dubbing. Anne: Okay. Pilar: I had no other access to like, what is now, you know, doing commercial voiceover or medical narration or e-learning, I didn't know any part of that business. Anne: I'm thinking even on camera, were you, when you were auditioning on camera, were you auditioning for roles that were Spanish -- Pilar: Yes. Anne: -- or for Spanish and English both? Pilar: Both. Anne: Okay. Pilar: I was doing both. I was, yeah. So my life has always been about doing -- Anne: Both. Pilar: -- doing both. Yeah. Anne: Yeah, the reason why I wanted to call that out is because for a person -- I am not bilingual. Right? For me, there's only just English. So I want to make sure that I hear when you are talking bilingual, like you have like almost, is it more opportunity or is it more work for more opportunity? And what are the things that you need to be considerate of when you are auditioning for both Spanish and English or are there differences?So it's just something for me, it's a new perspective. Pilar: So I think that the most important thing, really, it all comes down to the acting, Anne. It's not really -- Anne: Right. Pilar: -- about the language because it all starts from inside. So for me with the on-camera, and this is what I discovered when I was doing dubbing, is that whenever you're looking at, what's in front of you on the screen, if you're dubbing a, a woman who is -- or a character who is in pain or who is crying, you have to feel that pain, you have to feel that sadness. Because if you don't, it's not going to show up in your voice. Anne: Sure, sure, exactly. Pilar: It's not about manipulating the voice. It's about starting from the inside out, which is what a lot of people, when they're first starting out in the business, I hear this all the time -- Anne: Oh yeah. Pilar: -- everywhere, on Clubhouse. Oh, I've got a really good voice. And how do I make my voice this? And it's like, no. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: That's not what it's about. It has to start -- that's why the acting -- Anne: From the inside. Pilar: -- matters. It has to start from the inside. Anne: Yeah. I, sorry, I didn't, I got off a little bit on a tangent there -- Pilar: No, no, no, no, no! Anne: But yeah. So yeah, continuing while you are auditioning like crazy in Florida. Pilar: So I'm auditioning like crazy for voiceover, but I'm still doing my, my theater. I was doing my commercials. I gave myself for the first time in my life, I, I went on this cruise. It was called, what was it called? Celebrate your life, a Louise Hay cruise. Very, very spiritual. And there were all these great speakers. Wayne Dyer was there. Anne: Yup, yup. Pilar: Gregg Braden was there. It was a, it was like the coolest thing. And I'm like, oh my gosh. I met somebody. It was like, Ooh, this is really cool. And then I came back, and I get this call for an audition. And there, this friend of mine, who's an actor. He's like, well, you know, they want you to audition in this dubbing studio for this role. And I get the role. And at the same time that I get the role, I have this major health challenge, and I'm like, oh no, what's going to happen? And I'm like, you know what, I'm going to do this. I'm just going to do this. And then the enormity of it hits me 'cause I'm like, oh, wait a minute. I don't know anything about voiceover. I don't know how to do this. It's like, I'm an actor. And so I was really lucky because I had this great engineer, Rafael. I'll never forget him. And he kind of guided me, and we would do it like on a weekly basis. 'Cause I was dubbing a show. I was dubbing a series and it was coincidentally, it was Colombian. So I just started dubbing an episode or two a week, and he would teach me. And he'd be like, okay, I need a little bit more from you, do this from you. A lot of it was just observing and listening and looking what was on the screen and doing what that character was doing on the screen and incorporating it into myself in English, through my voice. So, you know, I did that, I got better. Then I got a call from another studio and then a third studio. And I was like, oh, this is really cool. Anne: Success begets success. Pilar: Success begets success. Right? Anne: Exactly. Pilar: Now here's the thing about Miami. Miami is a right to work state. So the rates are not that great. Dubbing in itself is, is a, is not -- Anne: Yes. Pilar: -- a moneymaker. Let's put it that way. Anne: I was gonna say that. And especially now given the current situation, I know Netflix has just gone crazy, and there's lots of opportunities for dubbing these days. Pilar: Yes. But here's the thing, the good thing about the union, they signed an agreement. I think it was two years ago, with Netflix. So they have to have certain rates. Anne: Good. Excellent. Pilar: Yeah, yeah. Anne: Well, I was just meaning I've -- I'm hearing so much about more opportunities these days since the pandemic, since there's just a lot of -- Netflix has been producing a lot more movies -- Pilar: Yes, yes. Anne: -- and the streaming stations. So I feel like there's more dubbing opportunities that I'm hearing about these days. Pilar: Yes. Not a ton. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Pilar: It's really great. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: So, so I started doing more and then I realize, oh, well this is interesting, but again, not much money. So I thought, well, let me, let me try. Somebody told me about an audiobook kind of a situation. I thought, oh, okay. This is interesting. Let me do, let me see what's going on with that. And so I get on ACX. I do my first book. The book is terrible. Okay? I'm gonna, I'm just gonna tell you right now. Anne: This is why I don't do books. I'm just saying. Pilar: Oh my God, the book, I didn't want -- the book itself, the book itself wasn't terrible. My recording. I mean, I don't think, you know, people have bought the book, and I've done, you know, a bunch of books since then. But I just, I look back at that first book, and I was like, oh my gosh, it's really kind of frightening. But you know, I really got into it because it was a character driven. Anne: Sure. Pilar: Again, though, if you're not a technical person -- everybody talks about getting into audiobooks. The one thing I will say, and it's, it's gotten a lot better. The technology has gotten a lot better, but if you're not a super-duper wiz at editing -- Anne: Oh, it's a lot of work. Pilar: It's a lot of work is all I'm going to say. Anne: Any long format narration, but especially books. Pilar: Yes. Anne: Yes. Pilar: Especially books. Anne: So much work. Pilar: It's a lot. It's a lot. So I don't -- Anne: And the money that you're making from it, I don't, for me, it just, it was like, gosh, it's so much work for not a lot of money. So -- Pilar: I totally agree. I totally agree. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: So I did a couple. I didn't do that many. I did a couple and then I was like, oh, this is just so much work. I started off, I had a booth in my kitchen, outside of my kitchen. It was in the living room and I, a friend of mine helped me, you know, construct it. It was really great. And then I discovered that every 10 minutes I had to stop because the stupid sound of the refrigerator would, would come into the recording. Anne: Yes. Pilar: Oh my gosh, you have no idea how terrible that was. So I moved it into the, a closet, which I actually had a really good, very, very narrow but long closet. So I, after a couple of iterations that became my studio, but I still wasn't making a lot of money. So I decided, you know what? I'm going to try, I'm going to send out feelers for like a nine to five job or a part-time job in radio. Anne: I was just gonna ask you that because there's so many people when they're trying to get into voiceover, and they want to go full time. And even when I started full-time, I had to have a part-time job so that I felt like I could contribute to paying the bills in terms of the household, for sure. So I was wondering through all those years, when you were like, kind of scraping by, did you have a second job doing something different like, I don't know, waitress, bartender, corporate? Pilar: I always had an administrative job going, like I was an administrative assistant -- Anne: Yup, yup. Pilar: -- to a friend of mine and she was great, 'cause I could always go and come back. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Pilar: She was really understanding. Anne: You could do your auditions. Pilar: Yes. So, you know, sometimes I would work for her full-time. Sometimes I would work part-time. Anne: Yup. Pilar: So it was really great to be able to go back and forth in that. But yeah, I always had a second job, and then I realized, you know, what, if I could have a second job doing something like radio? So I went, I went down the list of all the radio stations in Miami -- again, and now I'm realizing it as, as we're having this conversation. I did actually, I marketed myself out to them. Anne: There you go. Did you manifest? Did you manifest your radio job? Pilar: This, I started, I started manifesting. Yes. I went back to that. Yes, ma'am. I started seeing myself in front of a, in front of a microphone. Absolutely. And I didn't get one bite. Okay? Indeed.com, I papered my resume. And I spent a year and a half looking for this, but I set an intention, I set an intention. I said, I'm going to get a radio job. And the very last place that I looked at was, and I was talking to my friend who I had been her administrative assistant. We became each other's accountability buddies. She said, well, um, why don't you call up WLRN? WLRN is the NPR satellite in Miami. And I had looked at their website, and it said that there was a three to five-year position. And I was like -- three to five years experience needed. And I thought, I don't have three to five years. And she said, just write them. Just say, you're willing to work for them. You know, just say, you know, and I was like, you know what? Why not? Anne: I'm eager to learn. Pilar: Exactly. That's what exactly -- I'm eager to learn. I'd sent out so many resumes, Anne, and to so many different -- all of the companies in Miami. So I'm talking to her, and this is, this is the great part. This is like the manifesting part because I really, really was manifesting this heavily. I send it out while I'm talking to my friend on the phone. I knew how to do this by heart by now. I'd composed a letter. I sent my resume. I sent a couple of samples. Not 20 minutes later, I get a call from the guy -- Anne: Wow. Pilar: -- saying, do you want to meet? And I was like, sure, I'd love to. So I went and I met with him a couple of times, and they started me off working for them. So this was a, it was a part-time job because they were affiliated with a school. And so they said, well, you know, you -- we'll, we'll get you on the air, and then you'll do some spots for us. I was like, okay, great. So before a month was out, I was on the air, and I was doing spots for them, underwriting spots. They don't call them commercials because it's, you know, it's, it's, you know -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- it's not-for-profit. Anne: So it wasn't a show? You just started doing spots for them. Pilar: I started doing spots for them, but then they put me on the air from 10 to 2. Anne: Okay. PIlar: And then, so what I would do was that on my breaks, because I was hired from, you know, I would get there, like, let's say 9, 9:30, and then I would leave after my spot. So between breaks, when the shows were on, I would go into the other room and do the spots. Anne: Sure. Pilar: And then they started giving spots and then they started giving me more spots. And then I, I managed to work out a deal with them through the union and so that I would do their -- and I would produce their spots. So I would put music and sound effects under for their TV arm of the company. Anne: Oh, wait. So remember when I said quadruple threat? So now we've got yet another. Now she's producing spots as well! Pilar: Well, again, Anne. Anne: Yup. Pilar: I have no idea what I'm doing, right? Anne: Yup. Pilar: Because I, you know, I would just play record. Anne: Sure, sure. Pilar: So now I have to put, so I now have to do tracks, and I had to learn a whole set of other skills -- Anne: Sure. Pilar: -- because I didn't know, I didn't know how to do a console, how to handle a console and do three things at once. So now I'm, I'm producing spots, and then they give me more, and then they give me more and I'm like, wow, okay, I'm getting -- it's almost like the 10,000 hours -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- in, you know, in Outliers. It's like, I'm getting all this training. Anne: I think, I think that's great. And I love the 10,000 hours thing from Malcolm. And I am a total proponent of you need 10,000 hours. And whether you realize it or not, you had put your 10,000 hours in many aspects of your career. And again, if I can recap, you manifested, you wanted to be in radio. It didn't happen overnight. And that's one thing I want to kinda just touch back upon. Because a lot of times I think we're impatient with ourselves. And I think for me, going by my gut, this is what I always say, going by my gut, manifestation, doesn't always happen overnight. And I think that it leads you to the right steps to get to the right place so that you can fulfill that dream or that goal. And so, even though it didn't happen overnight, it did happen because you manifested it. You wanted it, you took the steps that were required to make it happen. And it happened. So BOSSes out there, if you're listening, we can all be learning about this. We can all give ourselves some grace, be patient, but believe in the manifestation and take those steps that it takes to cultivate and achieve that dream. So, sorry, just had a break in there with the educational moment. Pilar: And it's so important what you just said, Anne, because we're thinking that when we call it into being, let's say we're manifesting it, that it's going to happen on our timeline. Anne: Exactly. Pilar: Who died and made you God? Right? Who said that you would, that you would be doing this? Or if I, in my case that, because I said, I want to work in radio that next month, the following month -- Anne: Right. Pilar: -- I was going to be working radio? No. Anne: Right, right. Pilar: No, no, no, no, no. That's not the way it happens. Like there's steps. Anne: It evolves. Pilar: And if you cut those steps, and you, and you jump, you're going to be disappointed or you're going to do it the wrong way. There's a reason that the things come into your life when they come into your life. Anne: Oh yeah. Pilar: And it's because it's when you're ready to receive them, then you can go, oh, because at that moment, when I sent out that resume, I was ready. I might not have been ready if I had sent it out earlier. It may not have hit in the right way. Anne: Sure. Pilar: Later I talked to my boss at WLRN, and he said, you know, I get resumes all the time. It's just that when I read yours, it really fit because you're, you're a Latina. So you could say all these complicated words that would come out in Spanish and French because I also speak French. So, you know, sometimes these things would -- Anne: And yet another threat. I love it. Pilar: But you know, like sometimes there would be these, these weird companies, these weird -- not weird. They're not weird, but they're just French companies. So with the accent -- Anne: Sure, sure. Pilar: -- it would just come out better. And I will say one thing that was really fun when I was working in radio was that I got to say my name the way I would say -- 'cause like, if I say my name like, you know -- my, my name is Pilar Uribe. And that's how I, that's how I slate, Pilar Uribe. But once in a while I get to slate my name the way I usually, I would say it on the radio -- Anne: Sure. Pilar: -- which was "mi nombre es Pilar Uribe. Hola, Pilar Uribe" Anne: Ooh. Pilar: So it's like, it's so much fun to actually say my name. 'Cause I don't, I don't get to do that very often. Anne: Sure, sure. Pilar: You know? So we was fun to be able to use the bilingual aspect of it all. I mean, I was literally daily using it in the studio because I had to pronounce words in a certain way or -- Anne: Sure. Pilar: -- you know, so that was really fun to -- Anne: So now, how long was your radio career with WLRN? Pilar: It was two and a half years. Anne: Okay. Pilar: And one day my, my landlady writes me an email and says, I'm selling the apartment. I'd spent the entire, my 16 years in, in Miami in the same apartment. I had a great land lady, always had really good luck with that. And I was, I panicked. I was like, oh my gosh, what do I do? And I thought, this is the moment. This is the time -- Anne: For change. Pilar: -- I had been talking about moving. And this is the moment to go and move. And this is the moment for a shift. I literally felt the shift. I was terrified. And I will say that one of the things about doing something new is that there's always the element of fear. Always. Anne: Oh yes. Yes, yes. Pilar: So to sit there and you know, when people say, oh yeah, I went ahead and did this. And you know, you hear these marketing gurus. I, I listen to them on Clubhouse, and you know, they -- do this and I got this and they did this. And it's like, all of that happens with fear. It's just that the courage to be able to change -- Anne: To move through it. Pilar: -- and to move through it is -- Anne: To work through it. Pilar: -- is higher -- Anne: Doesn't mean that you're not scared. Pilar: -- than fear. Exactly. Anne: But you're moving through, and you know what's so interesting about the move? I've got two stories about moving and change. I remember when I personally, I felt like I needed the change. And one was when my husband and I were in New Jersey, and I said, I'm done. I, I love New Jersey. It's served me well, but I'm done. And I would love to go live in California. Jerry, why don't you see if you can get a transfer? And lo and behold, he did. And then I said to him, oh, by the way, Jerry, I need you to be able to make one and a half times what you're making now, because, because I want to quit my job and go full-time into VO. And guess what? It happened. However, nine months after that, he then got laid off from his job. But we stayed. We stayed, you know, we moved to California, we stayed in California, and we worked through it. Everybody said, when are you coming back? I'm like, I'm not coming back. So I worked through the first few years of being full-time voiceover. And it was just one of those things. I had my goals in mind and just set my brain to it. And somehow I've arrived here, thankfully gratefully. But the second time I said, I need a change, we had been in Irvine for 12 years. And I said, I'm done. Thank you, Irvine. It's been wonderful. We need to move, Jerry. And it was one of those things where I didn't even -- he was on a business trip and I said, Jerry, I need to go somewhere else. I know I've got a good 10 years left before -- 10, 15 years before if I, if I retire at all and I need to do it in a new place. And so basically I just said, I want to move. But putting that move into place, we literally got in like maybe a week before lockdown to our new house. Pilar: Wow. Anne: So we had to, like, we had to sell the house. I had to stage the house. We bought a new house. The new house wasn't ready. I had -- we had to move someplace in the interim with the cats, with you, sell the furniture, everything, put stuff in storage. And it was so much work, but we got through it, and now we're in a new place, but it was all from a need or a feeling in me that I needed to shift. I need, I couldn't be stagnant. I needed to grow and change. And I followed it, and it was tough, but I'll tell you what. We're so grateful. And I totally agree with you in terms of like, these things are put in place for movement and change to help people grow and flourish, if you take it in that vein. Pilar: That's so powerful, that story, Anne. It's like listening to your insides instead of worrying about what the outside is saying or -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- you know, because you're always going to get pushback. Anne: Oh yeah. Pilar: Because there's all kinds of things that, that will, uh, not necessarily bar you, but will make you take stock and think -- Anne: Oh yeah. Pilar: -- is this the right decision? Anne: Oh yeah. And I'll tell you if I may interrupt for just one second, I'm so sorry -- Pilar: Yeah, yeah, go for it. Anne: -- but I need to tell you that, 'cause you just brought to my mind was the biggest thing was this second time is now that I was an entrepreneur, right, with my own business, you realize that banks don't want to give you loans or approve mortgages when you are self-employed. And so that was huge. I mean, we had to bend over backward to prove that I had money coming in and that, that was, that was a huge thing. And I have to say that I'm grateful and thankful that my voiceover business flourished as it did so that, that wasn't -- I mean, it became a thing where we were worried up to the very last minute that they were not going to approve the mortgage because I had to show all sorts of records of income. And it just, it's crazy when you work for yourself. But thank gosh, my husband, he is able to prove half of it because he worked for an employer, but for me, they were like, no, you need to prove this, this, and this. And so that became a big point. So BOSSes out there working for yourself, know that these things exist. Pilar: And believing in it, I think that that's really important. What you just described is like, despite the no's being told -- Anne: Yes. Pilar: -- you went ahead anyway. Anne: And did everything I had to do, right -- Pilar: Exactly. Anne: -- to prove and to get through it. So, absolutely. Pilar: Yeah. Um, you know, I think there's something that's so important in this business to recognize is the amount of no's that we get. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: And when I think about the radio -- Anne: So many. Pilar: -- I mean, I got so many no's, and I got so many, like silences, because that's the other thing about this business. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: You don't necessarily get told you don't get the part, or you don't get the gig. You're just, nothing happens. So, you know, that it went to somebody else. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Pilar: And so, and it's, it's about physically and emotionally and being able to say, okay, all right. That's, that's, you know, and just moving on with it -- Anne: And moving on. Pilar: -- instead of dwelling in it. Anne: And again -- Pilar: Right? Anne: -- can I bring another, can I bring another marketing parallel into this? Pilar: Go for it. Love it. Love it. Anne: So not only auditioning and understanding that if you audition, maybe it's not the right time, right, for the person that is casting that audition. Maybe it's just, it wasn't the right fit for the job at that right time. But also when you're marketing and you're sending out those emails, or you're making those cold calls, all the time, there are no's. Right? And, and it's just not the right time. And so keep in mind that even when you're marketing, that is absolutely a huge consideration, that it's not the right time. They're not looking at that time to buy or to purchase, or they don't need a voice at that time. And the same thing applies to your marketing. So I know so many people that get so defeated about their marketing and like, why isn't it working, and how can I get the next gig? And it's one of those, it's a huge timing issue. And I know when I talk to my BOSS Blast clients, that that is a thing. You know, we get so many emails in our inbox every day. And like, I subscribe to old Navy, right? So old Navy three, four, or five times a week is sending me their latest sale. But I don't click on that email until I need something. And so the same thing goes for if you're trying to market your voiceover business, and that could be a whole other episode, Pilar, with that. Pilar: I think it is. I think it is because I have a story, which I'm not going to include -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- but I have a great story about that. And that's, that's really important. Yeah. Anne: So I love, love, love all the parallels that we are making through your story. So thank you, Pilar, for providing that story. So now I'm going to assume that that next move, is that coming back to New York? Pilar: No. It's going to -- Anne: Or going to all -- LA. Pilar: -- Los Angeles, yes. Anne: So we're going to be hitting the next episode with when you now, I guess, leave Miami and make your trek towards LA. So BOSSes, I can't wait for this next episode. Pilar, thank you so much again for this inspiring, motivating story. I'm just so glad that we're doing this. Pilar: I, I get such a kick out of talking with you, Anne. I learn so much with you, so thank you. Anne: Well, I love drawing the parallels, so. Pilar: I love it. I love it. You're good at it. Anne: So I'd like to give a great, big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect just like Pilar and I are connecting like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys have an amazing week and can't wait to see you next week. See ya. Bye! Pilar: Bye! >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Bosses, in 2022 we are failing fast + furiously. Who’s in? In this Bonus Modern Mindset Episode, Anne is joined by special guest Erikka J. They discuss blending tech + creative passions, pursuing multiple careers simultaneously, and most importantly, why it is oh so important to fail so that you can succeed! Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the Modern Mindset series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am so excited to bring you special guest Erikka J. Erikka is a multi-talented singer, songwriter, and award-winning voice actor. She's voiced for brands such as Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Apple, IBM, Discover and -- keep going -- Black Lives Matter and many, many more. As a natural born hustler, I love that, she is also a tech girl, just like me, a project and product management professional with 15 years' experience in multiple sectors, including government, e-commerce, software development, and automotive. Erikka J, it is a pleasure to have you, and thank you so much for joining me today. Erikka: Likewise, thank you, Anne, for having me and, uh, hey to the BOSSes out there. Anne: Yeah, I love it. So I went to your website, which by the way is beautifully branded. So guys, BOSSes out there, you want to have a look at something that's really beautifully branded, I love the website. I was drawn to the music tab there. So I want to say that I love your concept of delivering meaningful, honest, and relatable lyrics, which you call jewels, right, to your fans. Erikka: Yes. Anne: I imagine that this also applies to your philosophy in, in your VO being real and meaningful and honest, and I'm sure that that contributes in a multitude of ways to your success. But let's talk -- we'll do, we'll talk about that in a minute -- but let's talk about how did your singing career help prepare you for your careers thereafter in business as well as voiceover? Erikka: Oh man, I got, uh, I almost want to say I got lucky, but I worked for it too. Um, so I, um, you know, went to college, and even though I was singer and doing all of that, and people were, you know, telling me I should pursue that, I went the whole corporate route. But music chased me; it wouldn't let me stay away from it. So I got the business education from getting my MBA and from working in state government, federal government, and now a corporate job in automotive. But in music, I learned how to record myself out of necessity. So I mean, you know, I didn't have the big label behind me, but I had some ideas and I had to record my own songs that I've written. So started on audacity, started on a Scarlet -- Anne: Wow, all right. Erikka: Scarlet bundle, like with that mic, like that's where I started, in the closet. Yeah, recording myself in music, I learned the tech side of it and how to listen and get very detailed with my ear. And I eventually, I made my way over to voiceover and those skills came in really handy. Anne: Wow. Well, I have to say as a young artist back then, that's an ambitious goal, right, to be a singer. Talk to me a little bit about -- I know you said you didn't have a big label, but it's not like you didn't try to pursue a career path that way I would imagine. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I did the indie route. Anne: Okay. Erikka: So I mean, at that time, you know, early 2010s around ish -- Anne: Oh okay, gotcha. Erikka: -- so Internet was around and all the distributions. I could put myself on iTunes and all the platforms. So yeah, I never really did pursue the label route. I wanted to sort of be the captain of my own destiny, you know? Anne: Gotcha. Erikka: Yeah. And I had friends that were engineers, so they kind of helped teach me stuff and get me set up with templates. So, um, I did pursue it on my own, but I didn't pursue the getting signed sort of traditional route. Anne: Um, now is that something that you're still doing, or you're still considering, or trying to pursue all different routes? Erikka: I would say I'm probably like on hiatus. Anne: Gotcha. Erikka: Music broke my heart a few times. I love it, definitely my first love. But boy, when I found voiceover and was able to pull all these different things that I love into one big bucket, like I've really just fell hard. Anne: So what was it that made you go into business? I mean, you have your MBA. So when you're the starving artist, right, everybody says go to college. And that was, that was my mother, go to college and get a real job. But interestingly enough, what made you pursue your master's in business? Erikka: Yeah, so I kind of always say I lived my life in reverse almost, like in my 20's, I was super serious and straight and you know, yeah, singing's great. But I have to go get a real job. Anne: Right, right. Erikka: I went to college and you know, and it worked out well for me, but again, music just kept pulling me back, the creative that, you know, muscle, it just doesn't, it doesn't die. Anne: Oh, I agree. Erikka: It won't let you move away from it. So I just decided to do both -- Anne: Love it. Erikka: -- and it was crazy. It still is crazy. And I preach that all the time. Like I still have a full-time corporate job at this moment in tech and full-time voiceover, full-time I do both. Anne: Girl after my own heart. I tell ya, it's something special. Right? You have the tech gene and the creative gene. And it's so interesting to have both. It sounds like you love both. And you're passionate about both. Erikka: I do, I do. I mean, and how I got to voiceover was I was doing gigs on the weekend with a corporate band. So my kids were young at the time, and I was writing my own music and doing all that, my own shows, and working for the federal government, for Department of Defense at the time. Anne: Wow. Erikka: So seven days a week, I'm working every day, a little kids, single mom too. Anne: Wow. Erikka: So I was away a lot and you know, I've made time for them, but I was trying to find ways to spend more time with them. And somebody had mentioned voiceover and I'm like, what's that? Like, I didn't even know that people get paid for the stuff I hear on TV every day. And then I just, you know, did the Google hustle, man, you know, and figured it out online, and here we are five and a half years later. It's going pretty well. Anne: Wow. And here you are. That's amazing. Let's talk a little bit about tech -- Erikka: Yes. Anne: -- especially about, I guess, agile practices, which I believe you specialize in, correct? Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Anne: So I know that I've done an e-learning module on agile practices. I don't know if I understood them completely, but tell me a little bit about first of all, what are agile practices and what can we learn from them in our voiceover career? How do we relate those? Erikka: Yeah, yeah. So agile is like a mindset. It's an approach to software development is how it was born. And I believe it's actually the 20-year anniversary this year or last year it was. It was in 2001 that I think maybe like 17 different software developers got together. Waterfall was sort of their prevailing software development method, which to shorten it is basically just what I used to do, where you write a requirements document. I would write documents that are 60 pages long. You turn that over to your software engineers. You know, we kind of discuss it, go back and forth, make sure everybody understands, and you could be building something for months and then deliver it. So these guys got together and came up with this manifesto of 12 different elements that really focused on the customer, on delivering value over documentation, on making sure that it was an iterative process. Anne: Sure. Erikka: Because what can happen is if you're developing something, and you take six months to get it out, what I wanted six months ago is no longer a value to me. Anne: Yeah. Well, there's nothing worse than having a piece of software, and there's a bug in it. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: And then you have to wait like forever to get that resolved. Right? I assume that that's part of where this all came from. Erikka: Yeah. Not even a bug. It could mean that they were coding it to spec, but the spec is now changed. Um, you've gotten all the way down the road. Sometimes, you know, these are 18 months projects. Anne: Right, right. Erikka: And you've wasted money, time and value now. So this agile approach, and what I wanted to talk about today is one of the, it's not really one of the values that's in the manifesto, but one of the guiding principles is to fail fast and often. The goal is to be iterative and not let that fear of failure keep you from iterating and trying new things and being creative, and then using that process of failure to inspect and adapt. Go back and look at how you failed, what you could do better next time and look at it as a true learning process and a path to success. Anne: Wow. Well, that's it. We can go home now because that was, that was such a beauty. That was so valuable, what you just said in that short amount of time. I completely agree. I mean, there's so much learning to be had from failing. Erikka: Yeah, absolutely. There's such a stigma and there's such shame with failure, but you can take that failure, and nobody learns from winning, right? Like -- Anne: True. Erikka: -- you learn from, from when you lose. Anne: Isn't that that's so true. And I think that just happens all the time, really, in an industry where we audition to win jobs -- Erikka: Yes, yes. Anne: -- and we are constantly facing rejection or sometimes we hear nothing at all. So we don't know why we failed or how we failed. Erikka: Oh man. Yeah. As creators, as voiceover talent, as entrepreneurs in general, like there's so much wider, and agile was born from software development, but it really can be applied to so many different areas of life, of business, and just learning how to take that failure and be resilient and, you know, exercise your grit. I just saw the Ted Talk on Angela Duckworth. I don't know if you've heard of her, and she referenced the growth mindset, and you know, how grit is really that willingness to fail and to be wrong so that we can learn from it. And man, if we don't face it every day with auditions -- Anne: Right, that's just the first step. Erikka: -- I don't know what is. Anne: And I love how you expanded it out to be not just the performance aspect of our industry, but also just the entrepreneur mindset. I mean, yeah. I can't tell you after so many years of being in this industry and how many times I've failed, and I liked the whole iterative process of fail fast -- Erikka: Yeah. Anne: -- because I've always thought of it as well. I just kind of changed direction. Right? I never in my brain, I don't say I've failed. I say, well, I need to just change direction. Erikka: Exactly. Anne: And so that way I wouldn't have that stigma that you're talking about of shame and like, oh my God, I failed. I always said, well, I don't think of it as failure. I think of it as just changing direction, which actually seems to follow the agile mindset as well. Erikka: Absolutely it does. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. So how have you learned from that in your voiceover career? Because now how long have you been doing voiceover? Erikka: Yeah, voiceover. I started in September of 2016. Anne: Okay, yup. Erikka: So this will be my sixth year coming up. How have I learned? My goodness. So even when I was doing music, when I was singing and doing all of that, I've did approach it as a business. So I've actually had my LLC since 2015. Anne: Okay. Erikka: So I always approach that as investing in myself and looking for an ROI and trying to make the business money that I was making fund the expenses that I had for the business. It wasn't like that for a long time. I was putting in personal money. Anne: Right? Ugh. Erikka: I had business debts and honestly just in the past year, I'm going to be really vulnerable and transparent right now, I paid off $50,000 of business debt. That was a failure. Anne: But that means so much to me that you were vulnerable like that. And you were able to say that because that's going to really help so many BOSSes out there that look, I remember, and my vulnerability is my first year full-time in voiceover, I made like $12,000 for the year. Erikka: Same, same. Anne: Like it was not -- it was just -- people are like, oh my God, I'm making six figures or whatever. No, my first year, and I worked my tush off that first year. Erikka: Yes. Anne: I've known to be a workhorse myself. I feel like we're soul sisters in that area. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: And questioning in the beginning, like, oh my gosh, am I going in the right direction? I remember sobbing one day; everything just came down on me. And I'm like, I don't even know if this is where I should be. Yeah. And I had given up. Now see, for me, I had given up my career in tech. I was teacher tech. So it was kind of the same thing, kind of that technology and creative in the same area. I finally said to my husband, well, let's move to California, and I'm going to quit my cushy corporate educational, secure tech job and just going to do full-time voiceover. And that was just a leap of faith. I mean, thankfully I had put into motion, we had a plan. I mean, I had that financial cushion that allows you to do it, but I did it in 2008, which was the worst year to like -- Erikka: Oh God, yeah, '08. Anne: -- if you're in tech, you know that if you are out of tech for a couple of months, that's it, you're old, you're dead wood. That's like -- Erikka: Yeah, yeah. Anne: You've lost any kind of -- Erikka: You will not get up to speed. Anne: No. I said, oh God, I just need to rest. Give me like three months. I gave it three months, and then nobody would talk to me. It was 2008. And it was like, wow, you cannot stop in tech because otherwise you just, oh, you're not up to speed. And you know, I couldn't even get interviews. And I was like, okay. So I got to make this voiceover thing work and worked my butt off. And I liked that you said it's years. It's not like an overnight, like getting your ROI is just, you have to have, I think the wherewithal and the grit to kind of just survive that and just keep trying things, failing fast, right. And trying something else. Erikka: And that was the failure is that, you know, I, I knew that I was going to need, you know, different classes to take. And you know, a lot of that was music as well. Like, you know, the, the video that you and I were chatting about before, that costs money. Anne: Yes. Beautiful video. Erikka: You know? Thank you. Thank you. Anne: Yeah. BOSSes, just go to Erikka's page. She's got some really awesome videos, and you have a beautiful voice. So. Erikka: Thank you. Thank you. I mean, quality was really important to me. So, you know, I mean, you'll see it before I paid for it. Anne: So I told my husband, come over here and look at, look how beautifully shot this video is, let alone how awesome the whole performance and the storyline. And I feel like when I watched you singing, like I can see so many parallels between singing, performing, and also voiceover. Because again, if you're all about being meaningful and relatable, and I think authentic, I could see that in the video, in your performance. And I'm like, wow, you translate that into a voiceover performance. And bam, like, that's the magic. That's the magic. Erikka: That was for me because, you know, aspect of music that I always loved the most was that I was able to channel my emotions, not just through the words, but like how, the way that I was singing. And I had no clue how helpful that was, that I had already honed that skill, and that, that was a strength of mine to bring that to voiceover gave me a leg up, you know? Anne: Oh my goodness, yeah. Erikka: Oh my goodness. It was great. I mean, not just the failures in music, I wanted to just, 'cause we're talking about failure too, in voiceover, you mentioned that you had left tech and kind of given up and quit on it. And I did just about walk away from voiceover. Same thing. I was, you know, four years in. I think the best, the most I had made was like $25,000 in a year. And I'm like, you know, I can't keep doing this and I have to shout out Mr. Zellman my guy, my man Cliff -- Anne: Oh yeah.   Erikka: Because -- Anne: Who doesn't love Cliff Zellman? Erikka: I love him so much. Any voiceover that somebody got from me after August of 2019 is because of Cliff, because I was going to quit. Anne: Yeah. You want to talk about passion in what somebody does? Cliff is so passionate. Honestly, he's so passionate at what he does and he's so genuine and so authentic, wonderful, wonderful person to work with, if you ever get the chance, highly recommended. Yeah. And I can see him. He's like, he almost could be a motivational coach. Erikka: Right? Anne: Um, you know, because he is that passionate. Now you work, full-time, you say, at your corporate job and you're doing voiceover as well, and you have a family. So what's the fail first kind of -- does that translate into every aspect of your life as well? Erikka: Four letter word yes. Anne: Yup. Erikka: So all of this really kind of kicked up for me when I started working full-time from home with the pandemic. So that's where I was able to, you know, really dive in and give all my other time to voiceover and still be able to maintain both. 'Cause I was home all the time. The failure, there was boy, and I'm still learning about the self-care aspect, but I kind of really put my family on the back burner for awhile. In my relationship with my boyfriend, we had to really work through that. I'm a hard working woman, and he hadn't been with a woman that was as ambitious as I was before. And I kind of dove in probably a little too hard where I had to learn that you have to live life to be able to give good voiceover. Anne: Oh yeah. Right? Erikka: It can't all be the work. Anne: You've got to rebuild that creative -- Erikka: Yeah. Anne: -- yeah, spark I think. And if you want -- Erikka: You've got to have experiences. Anne: Yeah. You're talking to a workaholic, I get it. I totally get it. And you're right. There's always that balance. And I think I need to sit back and continually remind myself of that balance as well, because I'm like, look, I just want to get to this place. I might be retiring in 15 years. And so I don't want to have to worry about how am I going to pay the mortgage or I want to go travel. And so I'm always working towards something, and I think that a modern mindset of fail fast. I love that. You just twisted that for me, fail fast. Give me an example of the fail fast that worked in your favor because rather than well, let's just, I completely give up voiceover. No, let's just change direction. Erikka: I could talk a little bit -- I saw that P-to-Ps was something that you guys recently talked about as well. So my approach and my philosophy, whenever I talk to people about those, is I feel like they are a lead source, just like people go to Google to go look, they go to those sites, and they're essentially search engines. LinkedIn is a search engine. So there are some that maybe work better than others and some that maybe don't work as well. My approach was to track my ROI as I went, if I was to pay for more, a higher level tier. So if I pay for one, and you know, I'm waiting and I'll see if I need to cancel. If I need to read the next year, rather than sort of throwing all your eggs in one basket and saying, I'm just going to do stuff for my agents, trying different avenues as lead generators for work. Anne: Got it. Erikka: And I keep a close eye on that. Anne: And I think it's all about lead generation, isn't it really, to be successful in this voiceover industry? I mean, because the entrepreneurial, like the fear factor is that we don't necessarily know what work is coming in every single day. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: So being able to secure maybe a steady flow of possibilities, right, and us acting on those possibilities, like the auditions or even just having people find us, that is, I think the hardest part about being a voiceover actor and making that a full-time gig is that you don't know where that next paycheck is coming from. You don't know where the next client is coming from, and having a lead generation software, or you consider your P-to-P lead generation software. Erikka: Exactly. Anne: And even your website, like I said, again, I'm going to go back to your website, because I'm worked in tech and I worked on websites back in the day. I would never do it today. I hire people, but knowing a good website when you get to it and establishing know, like, and trust. People hire people they know, like, and trust. Your website is your online personification of your storefront. And that storefront, if presented correctly, can be an immediate, like I immediately said, yes, that girl is who I want to hire. And it was a visual -- I didn't even listen to anything yet. I went to your website and I said, there she is. It's just stunning. It's the attitude, the confidence, the, you know, and now everybody should be rushing over to your website. But it's so true. It's just so well done. I don't know if you had a website before, and for me there's versions of my website that were failure, you know, fail fast and let's switch it up. Let's see what's working. That's another thing that people come in. It is a first impression. And if that first impression is a fail, switch it up, switch it up. Erikka: You're done. Anne: You're done. Switch it up. Switch it up, you're done. Erikka: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Move on to the next. Anne: Yeah. It honestly has such an effect on first impression. Yeah. She looks like someone I could absolutely trust, and she's just got the goods. Like I want to work with her. Erikka: And yeah, another piece of that is it's the fail fast and often. So when you bring up my website, and it's so funny, I appreciate the compliments. I did build that site myself on Squarespace. Anne: Damn. Erikka: Um, and I'm in the process of having it professionally redone because you know, like you said, I just, I'm like, I'm good, you know, the whole back end piece, you know, to make it really fast. That's not my area of genius. So I'm paying people for that, but it still works. Anne: Absolutely. It still works with that first impression. Right? It's just like just bam, that first page. And that made me want to go investigate more. Erikka: Yeah, yeah. And what I've done to kind of figure out what works is playing with the SEO in there, which I know you love to talk about and so do I, because I love passive ways of generating leads. I want to be in the booth. I don't want to go chase clients. Anne: Isn't that the truth? Like it just saves so much time. I'd rather have someone find me first, that whole SEO thing, especially if it's organic, right? That's all fail fast. Erikka: Absolutely. Anne: And keep adjusting and keep evolving. And it's not hard if you're doing organic SEO. And, and I don't know if I would pay people to do SEO other than having somebody maybe writing press releases and you know, doing that kind of thing. That is something again that can really affect your success in the business. And, you know, success begets success. I keep saying that lately. And I think that it just becomes this wonderful ball of energy -- Erikka: Yeah, absolutely. Anne: -- which when it happens, if you do fail, I always think it's failure on a smaller level. Maybe it's not huge, huge fail when you work with fail fast. I think they're tiny failures, and they're always something that you feel that you can overcome. And I think the confidence of that is so much better than, oh my God, I have failed in a huge way. Let's just P-to-P's just don't work. Let's give them up or I can't get any work. Let's give up voiceover, that's a big fail. You don't want the big fails. You want the little fails that you still have the confidence that, you know what, maybe if this doesn't work, I'll just try this next. And that way it keeps the momentum going. Erikka: And that is the exact rationale behind agile is that it's not saying, go ahead and do the big failures. It's saying, if you, if you are more iterative in your approach as to how you're developing or how you're managing your business, or how you're approaching your auditions, then when you have those failures, they're smaller and you can continue them and recover from them faster and find the success. So yeah, you got it, Anne, you know agile. Anne: I love that. Look at that, so now I know agile. Well, how cool is that? So, and then if we apply this to our businesses, and here's where the creative, because I like having the 50-50 brain, right? Because the tech in me says, let's solve a problem. If it's not this it's this, or let's try this. This could be the other solution. And that's where I think that left brain, right brain thing helps because it does help you fail in smaller ways. And sometimes when I work with people who are completely creative or just come from a creative background, it becomes an all or nothing, almost dramatic sort of failure or success. I think that the small fails is where it's helped me in just having a little bit of that tech brain. And that's why I like the entrepreneurship of the industry, because -- so you've got the, kind of the best of both worlds, right? You've always been an entrepreneur, but now you're also working corporate. So there's a dependability factor there for you, right? You go to work every day, you know what to expect. Hopefully you're getting a paycheck every other week or whatever that is. Right? And that gives you the confidence to really take risks in an entrepreneurial endeavor because you've got a little bit of that cushion. Erikka: Exactly. Yep. And that was the goal. And that's what I tell people is there's this stigma of you have to be either/or. You have to either be an entrepreneur or you're not all in if you're still in corporate. And that is absolutely not true. For me, my job is a source of capital. As I am building my business up, I've crossed the, the goal threshold that I've wanted to get to. And now it's a matter of, you know, when is it gonna make sense for me to just focus on the one, but for now it's working. So why not take that money and invest it in your business? If you can manage both, it is okay to have more than one dream. Anne: I completely agree. And that's kind of why, as an entrepreneur, I've divvied up my own business, my entrepreneurial endeavors into multiple segments. It's not just voiceover for me, because again, that is the most unpredictable source of income because sometimes you just don't know, a job won't come in or you won't get the gig. So building up those other revenue streams on the side, whether you're doing it as an entrepreneurship or it's a corporate or a part-time job. I mean, when I went full-time, I did have a part-time job. I was an office assistant, and that gave me the money that helped pay the bills. And so I feel like that is all part of that mindset, that modern mindset of failure that is very similar to agile, where you make the plan to have the finances come in, to give you the confidence, to take the risks in building your entrepreneurial business. And then that will take off like a snowball. Erikka: There are four like core principles of agile. And one of them is responding to change over following a plan. It's not saying that following a plan is not important or that it's not valuable, but it's if you have one of the two you're going to prioritize responding to change. And that is exactly what you were talking about. I know people where they've, you know, they were full-time. I don't really love the full-time voiceover thing because I know other people that do full-time jobs and are full-time voiceover, like six figures. So, but I know people that have decided to go back and get a job because they wanted to pay off debt or they wanted to have more capital to invest in their business. There's nothing wrong with that. You can change along with the conditions and then alter your plan to fit what's happening right now. Anne: Yeah. I love that. I love that. And also, if you are just full-time voiceover, things are evolving. Trends are changing, um, technology, you and I know, technology is coming, and it is going to change the industry just as it changes all aspects of every industry, technology. And I, I love the fact that I have a technology background. I feel like you enjoy your corporate job just as much as you enjoy voiceover. Erikka: I do. Anne: Yeah. Okay. Erikka: I work with such smart people and I always tell them, like, you guys are so much smarter than me. And I just learn from them every day. Anne: It is inspiring. Erikka: It's inspiring. Anne: It's inspiring. I'll tell you. I've had some podcast guests on here that are brilliant, and it exhilarates me. And it gives me confidence and motivation to just go further and delve deeper into my own entrepreneurialship and my voiceover career. So it's, it's really awesome. I love that we have this whole modern mindset failure based on technology. What a really refreshing conversation. Erikka: Thank you. Likewise. I've really enjoyed this, Anne. Anne: Yes. Oh gosh, BOSSes. Go check out Erikka's website. Thank you so much, Erikka, for being with us today. It's really been a pleasure. Erikka: Thank you, Anne, for having me. Thank you to all the BOSSes. You guys, keep rocking on. Anne: Yeah, all right. I'm going to give a great, big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can nerd out with your colleagues and friends and also countless wonderful things. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye. Erikka: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Do you consult your inner child when making career decisions? Maybe you should! Anne & Pilar kick off the Boss Voces series at the beginning. They dive into Pilar’s journey from young girl singing + mimicking to finance assistant to Colombian telenovela star… More at https://www.voboss.com/pilars-journey-part-1 Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza. And today I am honored to bring you special guest cohost Pilar Uribe. Pilar is a bilingual voice actor, telenova star, and radio personality. Born and raised in New York city. She broken this show business with roles from Ugly Betty, Poor Pablo, Eternally Manuela, and El Cartel, filmed in Colombia and Miami. She recorded and produced for WLRN Miami South Florida, and now lives in LA where she records voiceover for television, radio, and films, and last, but certainly not least, she has booth kitties, which are so very important. Yay! Pilar, it's a pleasure having you here today. Thank you so much for joining me. Pilar: I am so glad to be here, Anne. This is a real treat. Thank you. Anne: So, first of all, the booth kitty, I have to know, booth kitties, booth kitty? Pilar: Booth kitty. Anne: Booth kitty. Pilar: Booth kitty. Yes. His name is Paco, Anne: Paco. Pilar: Well, his full name is Paco Del Barrio. Anne: Oh. Pilar: Paco Del Barrio, yes. Anne: Oh, Paco. Now, is Paco in the studio with you right now? Pilar: No, he's not. I know he's outside, and he's sitting on top of the desk where I edit looking like, like, how dare you close that door? Anne: How dare you not pay attention to me? Pilar: Exactly. I need a window for the door. Anne: As you know, we now both have booth kitties and that is a major plus for, I think, productivity in the booth to have booth kitties. They really help you in your daily -- Pilar: Absolutely. Anne: -- your daily booth recordings. Pilar: Yeah, they're very, yes, they're very, they're very observant, and they're very, how can I say this? Anne: They direct well. Pilar: They teach you, they teach you a lot about you as a voice actor. Anne: I agree. Pilar: We'll get into that. Anne: I agree. I think that could be an episode actually, how our pets help us learn about ourselves. For sure. For sure. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: So you're not even like a triple threat. You're like a quadruple, like, you're like multiple, multiple threats, TV, radio, voiceover. Tell us about how you started in the business? Because I think you've got a wonderful story to tell, and we can all learn a lot about how you evolved into your voiceover career. Pilar: Okay. So how much time do you get? Anne: Well, this first episode is about only 25 minutes. So. Pilar: Okay, I'll be quick. Now, I was born and bred in New York. Both my parents are from Colombia, a little town called Ibagué. And, um, I spoke Spanish until I was five. When I went to grade school, high school, I was in all the plays. I played the angel. I, you know, I did all kinds of things, singing groups. I was in the choir. I was in -- Anne: Me too. Pilar: Yeah. Right. You know, you do it all. Anne: Choir thing and you know, that creative. stuff. Pilar: Exactly. Exactly. I went to a girls school, and so we were in this choir, and I was just in this thing called Triple Trio. And we would go to, we would go to boys schools. We would go to boarding schools and sing there and have crushes on all the boys. Anne: Of course. Pilar: So in college I majored in theater and kept studying voice and did musical theater and just all kinds of things. Anne: But not necessarily voiceover, right? You're thinking -- Pilar: No, no, it was all, it was all musical theater or -- Anne: Musical theater. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: Because you sing too. That was the other threat. 'Cause I actually happened upon one of your social media posts the other day. And you were singing. So. Pilar: Yes, I'm really into like the -- so that's the thing. I was kind of born and raised on singing a capella because I would sing with my sister. We had a little duet going, and she would play with the guitar. Sometimes we would play the guitar and sometimes we would just do two voices. So there's this great app called acapella. And I loved just dubbed myself over and over again into like four part harmony. It's so much fun. So in college, I kept singing. I kept with these groups, and I majored in theater, came back to New York. And of course it's a different story now, you know, once you're looking for a job, and I thought, well, okay, I'll, I'll go the corporate route. And I worked for Harper's Bazaar -- Anne: Oh wow. Pilar: for -- yeah. For two and a half years. And I, I totally lived the Devil Wears Prada life. Anne: I was gonna say! Pilar: Oh yeah, all that stuff is true. Anne: In New York too. Pilar: In New York. So I, I was an assistant to an editor, and it was like, oh, what an experience that was. Anne: I can imagine. Pilar: Yes. Yeah. That that's a whole other, that's a whole other story. Then I went to, I moved to Nine West and I started working to helping in design shoes. And all throughout this time, I was taking acting classes because I thought, let me just keep that muscle going. Even though it just, it seemed so far away at the time. And I got laid off. I was the last hired, first fired. There was a whole financial shakeup, and I thought, okay, this is the time to start working on my acting. So I got my headshot and resume together, and I started going out on auditions. And in the meantime I got married. Anne: That's a lot happening. Seems like a lot happening -- Pilar: Yes. And I cleared my throat. Anne: -- short period of time. Pilar: Yes, absolutely. And I cleared my throat because that was a whole experience in itself. So I did theater. I actually, I did "A Chorus Line," and I was probably the only person -- I played Diana Morales, who was the Hispanic character. And she was the one who said, "and I felt nothing, simply nothing." It's such a great song. I love that song. Anne: Lovely. Pilar: I was the only one who could not do a double pirouette, but I got away with it. That's like a requirement for "A Chorus Line," but I could not do a double pirouette to save my life. And if you try doing it, you will fall over. I can tell you right now because I can't, I just, every time I've tried it, I just fall over. I think I did it once in my life, but that's it. So I did a couple of films. I did student films, and I did extra work on "One Life to Live" and "All My Children," and I think there was one called "Passions." Anne: Wow. Pilar: And so that I had so much fun because of course I used to watch those shows, and I used to watch "General Hospital" actually in college. Anne: Oh, of course. Who didn't? Pilar: Remember -- yeah, like, what was it the, uh, the, yeah, there were these scenes, which we can't even say on the air. Anne: I just read something about Luke, that they finally wrote him off. Pilar: Yes, yes, yes! The Luke and Laura scene. Do you remember the Luke and Laura scene? Anne: Yes. Of course, of course. Pilar: Everybody talked about that. Anne: There has to be a moment in time. Like that is, that is ingrained into like the moment in time, uh, television history. And is this what brought you in -- the telenova star? So is that leading us to that place or? Pilar: Yes, yes. Anne: Okay. Pilar: Absolutely. It is. I do have a point and I will -- Anne: No, no, I totally get it. Pilar: So I started seeing in New York that, you know, everybody was hustling, like I was, and I was doing extra work on like a film with Michael J. Fox. And I got to touch Arnold Schwarzenegger's jacket, but I was always, you know, background extra. And I thought, wouldn't it be great to work in a job that is kind of a 9 to 5? And I realized television is that. So I had that dream, and that's why I did the extra work, because I, you know, I wanted to see what was going on in those soap operas. So I separated, and I thought, okay, I'm done. I'm going to go to take a little vacation and go to where my extended family lives, in Colombia, in Ibagué. And I go, and I stay with my cousin, and the third night I'm there, we decide to go to a fortune teller, and fortune tellers are big in Colombia. And I've, I just, I love them. Like they're just so much fun. So I go to this fortune teller, and she reads the way I smoke a cigarette of all things. So she's looking at my ashes as I'm smoking a cigarette, she gives me a cigarette, I start smoking it. And she says to me, pack your bags, get ready because you're going to be really famous. Anne: Ooh. Pilar: And I was like, what? Anne: Who doesn't like to hear that? Pilar: I just, I, but I was so, you know, I was so like, you know, I was so -- I was depressed, and I was going through the whole divorce proceedings. I had been working for Morgan Stanley as an assistant. And, you know, that was just the, the world of finance. I didn't even understand -- Anne: Oh, from fashion to finance. Pilar: Yes, exactly. And then she says this to me, and I'm like, oh, maybe I'm going to be a shoe designer. Maybe I'm going to be the next, you know, Manolo Blahnik. And I was like, I can't, I couldn't imagine that one at all. So my cousin and I, we left and we just laughed it off. So I, I, so I stayed a couple of months, a couple of extra months, and I thought, well, maybe I could live in Colombia. So I go back to New York after three months, and I'm, I get my reel together. And I met a party at my parents' house, and there's this really good friend of my mother's. And she says to me, have you read the book, The Celestine Prophecy? It's by James Redfield. And I was like, no. So I read it. And it was a game changer for me. That's all I can say. It, it just completely changed my perspective. And I started thinking, well, maybe I could do this. Maybe I could work in television. And I had a very good friend of mine who was my vocal coach. And he kind of turned into my mentor, and he started telling me, he said, you know what? I want you to start visualizing what it would be like to stand in front of the camera. I want you to see what it would feel like, what the lights would feel like on you, what it would sound like, the people walking around you, how it would taste if like you were drinking something on set, what it would smell like, and what you would hear and what you, you know, all the five senses and really do like a little meditation about it. And I wasn't into meditation back then at all. But The Celestine Prophecy talks about that a little bit, a lot, actually. So I have my reel, I speak to a couple of networks. I write letters and there are two that are interested, and one of them says, okay, great. We are interested. We want to see you. So I packed my bags, and I pay for my ticket, and I go down to Colombia. Anne: So when you say you wrote the networks, okay. So that's a very broad description. So what specifically? 'Cause that's like, you're marketing yourself. I mean, you've been marketing yourself I feel since you were out of the womb. Right? So in reality, you're sending letters and what are you saying in those letters? Hey, I'd like to meet you? I have acting experience? Pilar: Yes. Anne: I'd like to meet you? Pilar: Exactly. Exactly. Actually you just said, I didn't even realize that, you just turned the button on for me. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: So I was constantly doing that without even realizing. Anne: Without knowing. Pilar: Yeah, because what I had was, it was just a letter with my real back then. It was VHS. Okay? Anne: Yup. Pilar: So I'm really dating myself, you know, saying I have this experience, I have this training, and I'd really like to do TV. And one of the things I learned a long time ago was you can talk about your strengths. There's no need to lie, but you don't have to say, I don't know how to do this. Anne: Sure. Pilar: You can say, I'm very eager to learn. I'm very eager to get into the business because I realized as I was going down there that yes, I had worked in television as an extra. I had worked in film by then. And so I understood how the camera worked. 'Cause it was -- we worked on an entire summer, over a period of weekends on a feature film. So I knew how it worked, but television is very different from film because it's like, boom, boom, boom, here's this scene, set it up, do the scene. And then you've got a whole bunch of other things to do. So it's a lot busier than film. So I didn't, you know, long shots, you know, close-ups, I was still very much of a newbie. So I basically just concentrated on what my skills were. And these two people, they kind of said, yes, you know, one of them said, there's a possible role for you. And the other one was like, okay, well we'll meet you when you come down here. 'Cause I realized I had to go down there. Like they weren't going to sit there and say -- Anne: Sure. Pilar: -- oh yeah, we'll hire you. So that's why I, I made the decision. I packed my bags, and I go. So I get to Colombia and I'm staying with a friend in Bogotá now. 'Cause now I'm staying in the capital. Before I had been staying in Ibagué where my family is from, and I call up the producer and uh, I make an appointment and I get there and I'm like, I'm, I'm really excited. And I'm like, okay, this is it. This is the start of something big. And I get there and she said, that show has been scrapped. And she points to her, this shelf and all the episodes are there. And she's like, that's been scrapped. They're writing a new show. You're going to have to audition for it. And there's nothing, you know, I don't, I don't have anything for you. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: So I'm like, oh my God. So what do I do? I start envisioning what my life is going to be like. So I start making like a little list. Okay. I need an apartment. I need a job. That's my most important thing. I need an apartment and I need a car. So the first thing I would do is that I would call her on a weekly basis, this producer, and I would say, hi, how are you? How's it going? And she knew immediately why I was calling. She like, I don't have anything for you. So I was like, okay, great. That's done. Then I started going out and looking at apartments in Bogotá of where I wanted to live. I mapped out, I walked around a lot. I, you know, I was, this was basically, I was friends were taking mirrors, going in taxis or I was walking, and I found an area that I wanted to live in. And so everybody posted their little -- they did newspapers, but they, you know, they would post it up on the window, and I would look and I would take a look, and I finally found one and I was like, oh my gosh, this is really great. Did the same thing with cars. I went to the car dealerships. I looked at all these cars, and I found the car that I wanted, and I keep calling this woman. And so once a week, and then one day she called me. Anne: Here's the thing. You must've had a good relationship with her if you actually spoke to her, right? Pilar: Yes, yes. Anne: Usually producers, if they're very busy, that somebody else is either taking their calls for them or screening their calls. So if you were actually able to talk to her, you must have had a great relationship, which I think that's a key factor. Pilar: We developed it. It wasn't something that just started out that way. I mean, I always went through her secretary first. Yeah. So it wasn't like -- this was something that developed on a regular basis, but I wasn't like stalking her -- Anne: Right. Pilar: -- or being obnoxious about it. Anne: Right, right, right. Pilar: I was just saying, hey, I just wanted to see. And because I was, you know, this was the lead -- Anne: Keeping top of mind. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: See how I'm -- we're transforming all of this into the current day marketing. Pilar: I love it. I love it. This is awesome. Anne: This is also staying top of mind with the producer. There you go. Pilar: Exactly. Top of mind. So she calls me and she says, I have something for you. And I'm like, oh my God, this is it. This is it. I get to the studio. It turns out it's one episode of a children's show. Anne: Okay. Pilar: And I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't live on this. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: What are you going to do? And I talked to the director, that director, and I kind of, we just started talking, and you know, she knew who I was and she said, oh no, no, no, no, no. You're still being considered for this new show. Don't worry about it because I actually -- just going back a little bit -- I had auditioned for the new show. So, so, okay. So she called me up and she said, I want you to audition for the show. I auditioned for the show. And then she calls me. She said, I have this for you. And it was a children's show. So I was like, oh no, what am I going to do? And she said, no, no, no, no. You're still -- the director for the children's show said, no, you're still being considered. Because this was much smaller than what it is today. You know, in the very first time I went and I auditioned, it was very different from the way I auditioned in New York. So, you know, in New York you get given sides and now you memorize it, but you, you're allowed to have it in your hand. And back there, you, you know, you definitely had to memorize the whole thing. And I was panicked and this guy helped me and it was great. A couple of other weeks go by. And then they call me in for a second audition and that's with the director. He was very stern. And I was really nervous. A couple of weeks later, she called me, and she said, you got the job. So all this work that I had been doing, I, you know, I'm shortening it. I had been looking for the apartment. I'd been -- Anne: You'd been having a vision and meditating -- Pilar: Exactly. Anne: And manifesting. Pilar: Exactly. So once I had all that ready to go, when the call came, and this is over a period of three months that this happened, I was like, okay, great. Now it's time. I can get the car, and I can get the apartment. I can rent the apartment out because now I, now I have somewhere to go because I have a job. Anne: Sure. Pilar: And so actually it was really funny. The head of the network called me, and I, I -- it's kind of amazing that I think about this now -- he called me and he said, I, I, I have to tell you that -- and he kind of called me apologetically. And he said, you're going to be really -- this character, you're gonna be really ugly, and you're going to be really nasty. Anne: All right. Pilar: So I was like, please, you know bring it on. Right? So we start filming, and it's a whole new experience. So I have to start from the beginning again, and I'm learning camera angles, and I'm learning how the business works. And the show comes out and literally, Anne, overnight -- the show comes out like let's say on a Thursday. And the last show that what they did is that they dovetailed the old show, which was one of the most well-known shows in the history of Colombian television. It was called "Café -- Café con Aroma de Mujer." they're redoing it now. And so then ours came in. So we had that huge audience, which had seen the show, and everyone had been glued to the television. And then they saw our show. Anne: Right. Pilar: And I was the first one who spoke on the show. It was really cool. Anne: And you were an ugly, horrible personality, right? Pilar: Exactly. I was just, I snarled, I was a snarler. And so it's kind of like a good luck thing. It's kind of like when somebody says that's a kind of a good luck thing in a film when somebody says the name of the film in a film, it's good luck. And in television, in Colombia, it's like the first person who speaks, that's a good little sign. It's like a good luck charm. So, so I was the first person who spoke, and then literally the next day, I was being recognized -- Anne: Wow, that's great. Pilar: -- on the street. Anne: That's fantastic. Pilar: It was the weirdest thing. And so I was like, oh my gosh, what that lady said was true, that fortune teller. Anne: Right? Pilar: A year before practically it came out. Yeah. It was over a year that she had said that. And I thought, this is so interesting. So basically I manifested my way into this job. Anne: Well, I love that. I think there's a lot to be said. I mean, I, it's a new year, you know, and, and I talk all about how being grateful and then really writing down and thinking and manifesting and about what your goals are. I really believe that it comes true. You actually incorporate the steps to make it true. And interestingly enough, notice how I kept noticing all the marketing things that you were doing, which you weren't even realizing at the time. You were developing a relationship. Right? You were keeping top of mind. You were setting goals in place so that you could achieve them to get where you needed to be. So, congratulations. I mean, that's, that's a great story. Pilar: Anne, where were you, where were you in my life? I wish I could have called you out, like brought you back from the future in. My life would be like, you know, but yeah, exactly. So I started working, and I basically did this over and over and over again -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- because in Colombia, telenovelas only last a year. Anne: Oh, that's what I was just going to ask. How long did the show go on, a year? Pilar: Yep. So yeah, because it was actually a little bit more. We do, we did a lot of episodes. Anne: Is it a daily? Like a -- Pilar: Yeah, yeah. Anne: Okay. Daily for a year? Pilar: So it's a daily, but it's not because it's actually prime time. 'Cause it always came out in prompt time. So they're, they're not exactly soap operas. They're, they're like prime time soap, operas. Let's put it that way. That's what they call them. And really they're more like series. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: Because they're not, they have a beginning, middle, and an end. Anne: Got it. Pilar: They don't last for 20 years like they do here -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- or 30 years. So, you know, there's a story. So, you know, it's like a poor girl meets rich guy. Then he does something to her, and then she makes it on her own. And then she's great. And then they live happily ever after, or there's a tragedy, you know, and so, you know, all kinds of different stories. And I got to play all kinds of different characters. I became known as the bad girl because I was one of many bad girls on that first show with, "Eternamente Manuela," and then I became this super duper evil person. And it's so funny because on Instagram -- Anne: On that show or on other shows? Pilar: No, on that show. Anne: Okay. Pilar: That's what really established me as the resident bad girl. They showed "Eternamente Manuela" after many years. And there're all these people on Instagram who were like, oh my gosh, that was you. You were such a bad girl. And they're constantly giving me snippets and stuff that I didn't see. It's so funny. 'Cause like when you're working, you don't have time to watch your own show. You just don't. That's one of the things that -- so I never saw the show, that the entire show. Anne: You have archives that you can post, or is it mostly your fans that are posting -- Pilar: It's a little bit of both. I have some that I post, but most of the time, they show me things, and I'm like, oh my gosh. And I remember filming it, but I don't remember, you know? So it's really fun. It's really great to like kind of like walk down memory lane. I was doing that a lot this past year. Anne: Yeah. That would make sense that you would be, if it's like a daily thing, and you're in and you're just working all the time, it would make sense that you don't always get to watch. It's like, interestingly enough, the VO BOSS podcast only has weekly episodes, but I don't always get a chance to listen to them after we produce them. So every once in a while, when I get a free moment in my car, I'll listen, and I'll be like, oh, okay. And it brings the memories back. Well, that's a pretty decent episode. Pilar: Yeah, exactly. And then you can look back and go, oh yeah. Right. That's interesting. Oh goodness. Anne: When we're in the middle of the manifestation, we're in the middle of the execution, right, you just have to give it up to faith that we're doing a good job and that our listeners and fans are drinking it all in and liking it. And if it were anything, otherwise they would let us know. So. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: Yep. Pilar: Exactly. Barrel along. Anne: All right. So you are a star, a telanova star. And are you doing any other, are you doing any other shows at this point, other than your daily series? Pilar: Well, I did the first show, then I go and I do a second show. And then my second show, I'm playing a gringa. So "hablo así, hablo muy trabada así, con un acento así." And I just, I had a ball. I dyed my hair blonde. I was a blonde. Anne: Wow. Pilar: I was a blonde, Anne. Anne: Wow! Pilar: Oh my gosh. Blondes do have more fun. I'm here to tell you blondes do have more fun. I had so much fun doing that show, and I did so much improvisation on that show. It was amazing. 'Cause I had the latitude. I would sing because I played this housewife who's being cuckolded by her husband who fell -- who falls in love with the lead. So I sit there and I sing away, and I start singing away in English. And it was so much fun to improv on that show because I could do it. And they would let me, 'cause I was playing an American who spoke Spanish. At the same time -- that was a nightly show -- at the same time, I was doing a series, which was an hour weekly. I got a wig. I got a wig for the show. And so I was this very -- the other woman, she had -- American with an accent. She had blue nail polish. She was, she was really cool. She was really modern, wore these little mini skirts. The other series, she was a recovering alcoholic. So she was very prim and proper lawyer. She had a little sort of Lulu Brooks brown haired bangs. And there were people who did not know that I was in both shows, and that was so much fun to do. So then I added that to the roster at the same time. Anne: So you're doing all TV at this point. Pilar: All TV, but here's the thing. I'm doing a lot of interviews. Anne: Makes sense. Pilar: The interviews, I love doing live interviews, but the way -- when I would have the most fun was when I was doing live interviews were when I was doing radio. I had so much fun doing radio interviews. So I always asked my agent -- like I really liked doing them because there was just something so much fun about the spoken word. So I, I keep doing these shows, and I, I had a band going where we would do these jazz nights every Friday night at this place. And I added theater. And at one point I was doing two shows and a musical. It was a Colombian musical. And so I was doing everything at once. And then at some point along the lines, I did an animated show. So they asked me to do an animated show. And so that, I got to do like a whole, that was a whole different world for me. And that's when I really kind of -- Anne: Started voiceover maybe. Pilar: Yes, that's when I started voiceover. Thank you. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: And um -- Anne: Sounds like voiceover to me. Pilar: And it, it was so much fun though. 'Cause it was different voices and I got to really play around with it. And since they didn't really know what they wanted, I got to do the voices. I got to give them voices. Anne: So let me ask you a question. Now you're doing an animated show, and you're doing voices. Had you in your acting, your previous acting experience or had you had opportunities to do voices or were you training so that you could create different voices for different characters for acting? Pilar: None whatsoever. Anne: Okay. So these were -- Pilar: No, no. Anne: -- just things that you just brought out to life and -- Pilar: They just asked me to do it. So I did. So they would say, well, let's try this. She's a little bit younger. So I would, I would do a younger voice. And so let's try this person 'cause they're this loud, obnoxious teacher. So I would do this loud, obnoxious teacher. Anne: Had you played around with voices -- Pilar: No. Anne: -- when you were young? Pilar: That's not true. My mother would say absolutely because I used to be -- I was a great mimicker from the time I was a kid. Anne: Got it, got it. Pilar: I had a very good friend of mine's mother was German. So I would speak with the German accent and you know, I hear nothign, I see nothing. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: I would -- I was a great mimic when I was a kid. Anne: You know what's so interesting. I just want to break in a little bit. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: Because I find that where we are in life today, a lot of people that, that kind of tend to follow their heart, follow their dreams end up doing a lot of the same things that they do when they're children. So if you're mimicking, right, when you're a child, like I taught my dolls and I was this teacher for 20 years in front of the classroom. And I do e-learning today. So it's just so interesting that things that I loved when I was a kid, I just brought right through to my, up to my adulthood and to what I bring to my work. So, you mimicking and probably you acted. Did you -- I put on little plays too. Pilar: I can so see you doing that, Anne. I don't know why. I can see you as like a little mini Anne with, with her little glasses -- Anne: As a mini Anne. Pilar: -- just kind of, sort of like a little, like a little chorus and kind of like conducting your dolls. Right? Anne: Yeah. I did. I loved it. I loved it. And I brought it right up. I still do that today. It's so interesting. I think if everybody looks back to their childhood, if they're following their heart or, you know, I always say following my gut. I do both. I do it in my business and in my personal life, I follow my gut, and I really believe that we bring those things from our childhood, and it brings me a lot of joy. I'm pretty sure it brings you joy too. Pilar: I agree. That's so interesting that you bring that up. I really, and truly -- I hadn't, I kind of knew that on an intellectual level, but if I, if I really feel it in my gut, that is absolutely where I get joy -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- was from when I was a kid, and I would do that and I would make other people laugh. I would make my mother laugh all the time, you know? Anne: Yeah. Pilar: Wow. Anne: So then yeah, so now you've transitioned, or not necessarily transitioned, but you've added to your repertoire some animation and voiceover. Pilar: Yes. Anne: Wow. Pilar: Yes. Anne: Without even knowing it. Pilar: It was just, it was, it was there. The opportunity was there, because I lived in a -- Bogotá is a place where everything is together. That's not really the case anymore, but it used to be that Los Angeles where it was where you did film and television, New York was where you did more theater. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: And theater, yes. Theater, was in the 50's, there was more television. And then I don't know why or, or what I mean, and I don't know the history of this, but it just became more of a theater town, and you know, then, you know, slowly but surely, they started doing the studios in Queens, and then more film and television came, and now there's a whole bunch more voiceover. And there always was that, but I feel like LA was the big place for all that stuff. And so Bogotá kind of did -- had everything. So I had a lot more opportunity -- Anne: Interesting. Pilar: -- to, to kind of -- Anne: Broaden. Pilar: Yeah, yeah. Broaden my horizons that way. So I basically just went from show to show to show. I never really stopped. There was one show that I did. It was the last show that I got to play a bolero and ranchera singer. I was hired on the basis of, I actually did a, uh -- back in, I was on a, this thing called Restaurant Row in New York, Cabaret Row. It's called, Don't Tell Mama. And I did this show called, um, I can't remember what it was. It was, it was a revue. And I played this character called Nora the Dominatrix. There was this one song that I had to sing. And it was "you ache for the touch of my lips dear, but much more for the touch of my whips, dear. I can raise welts. Like nobody else, as we dance to the domination tango." Anne: Love it. Pilar: So it was, it was so hysterical. And I was, I was all decked out in this whole dominatrix costume. And that was a whole, I actually, to get the costume, when I lived in New York, I went to Patricia Field, which back then, which was on 8th Street. And I walked in and I had to look for like, like I was looking for, I didn't know what I was really looking for. And this one, beautiful, beautiful, tall transvestite comes and says, can I help you, dear? And she had this long blonde hair. And so I'm like, I have no idea what I'm looking for, 'cause I don't know what a dominatrix looks like. I'm supposed to dress like a dominatrix. So there's this woman and she's kind of mousy. She's got a long raincoat on, and she's looking around and the salesperson's helping me. And then she comes up to me and she says, what are you looking for? And I said, well, I don't really know what a dominatrix looks like. She said, I'm a dominatrix. And I look at her and I'm like, oh, and I'm like, do you mind if I get my pen and paper out? She starts telling me what a dominatrix does. She gave me all this information. So I get the outfit and, you know, dog collar, little short shorts, you know, the whole thing, the fishnet stock and a whip. Anne: Yup, yup. Pilar: So for the audition that I did for the, back to what we're talking about, for this show, I wore that whole costume, and they were like, you got the job. Anne: Yep. Pilar: So -- Anne: You walked in, you got it. Pilar: Exactly. And I'm wearing like a little, a little blonde wig. So I had to sing when it was my turn to sing and I don't know why this is, but it was, it was really kind of a unique situation. It was my responsibility. So I would hire these guys, which of course the network paid for. But I, I would hire these -- a mariachi band, and they would come to the studio, and we would sing this song or wherever. And then I would learn the song for that week. And so it was like a little performance. So it was like, I was doing like a little play within the show, and it was such a great experience because I didn't have much time. So I had to -- it was like learning copy. Anne: Sure. Pilar: It's like, I had to, I had to learn the song quickly and have it as if I -- Anne: And deliver. Pilar: And deliver. So it was like, it was all of what I'm describing was just great practice for what I do today. Anne: So now do you come back to New York after a certain amount of time? Or how long are you down in Colombia? Pilar: Nine years. Anne: Okay. Pilar: I'm in, I'm in Colombia for nine years. And so I do all these different things, and my father passed away in '99, and that's when I realized kind of wanted to be near my mother and my sister. But I'm thinking, I don't know if I want to go back to New York. I'd like to try something different. And I thought, well, and I'd always been in love with Miami, because it was so beautiful -- Anne: Yup. Pilar: -- and just like, Ugh. So I wanted to go to LA, but I was too scared. I was like, it's just too big. It's just, there's just too much. I thought, let me try Miami. It's another market. Let me see what it's like. Anne: All right. Pilar: So I get to Miami, I have cousins there and I, I live with them, and I'm like, well, you know, I've been a telenovella actress for the past nine years. I've got all this body of work. I'm set, and I get there, and I don't get one job for a year. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm starting again. Anne: And here starts your life in Miami. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: And actually this is a good segue for part two. Part two. So yeah. So we're going to be continuing the story, which is a very interesting story, because I can draw so many parallels to see how you've evolved, how you've grown, and it really draws so many parallels to the voiceover industry and how you can grow as an artist anywhere really, whether you're doing voiceover acting, in television, theater on the stage; it really is such a wonderful, I guess, reveal, Pilar, of your career and how we can, we can learn from that. So I'd like to give a great, big shout out right now to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like a BOSS. You can find out more at ipdtl.com. Pilar, I cannot wait for our next episode to continue the conversation. So thank you so much for being with me today. And we will come back for part two in the next episode. Take care, BOSSes. Bye! Pilar: Thank you, Anne. This was a pleasure. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Picture this: a boot camp that teaches essential marketing skills + lands you a job in 6 months. Unheard of…until now. Anne is joined by special guest Mehak Vohra for a bonus Modern Mindset episode. They cover education reform, the trials and triumphs of entrepreneurship, dropping out of school, and running for mayor…     Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza. And today I'm thrilled to welcome special guest Mehak Vohra, CEO and founder of SkillBank to the show. Mehak started her career as a computer science student at Purdue University and after her sophomore year dropped out at the ripe old age of 19 and moved to San Francisco. Her goal was to build the most scalable marketing agency in the world. And I think she's done an amazing job so far. She ran Jamocha Media for four years, and at her peak, she was generating one to 2 million views per month on LinkedIn. That's some goals for us BOSSes out here. For herself and her clients, she has probably more than 30,000 followers by now, because the last time I checked your bio was a few months ago, on TikTok. She's the youngest person to ever run for mayor in San Francisco's history. Mehak, thank you so much for joining me today. Mehak: Thank you so much for having me. Anne: I'm so excited because as I've been trying to get to interview you, because I'm so impressed with what you have done in such a short amount of time in your short career. And I noticed in your bio, you made a point to mention that you had dropped out of college after your sophomore year. And I can only imagine that you must've had a pretty good reason for doing that, and that you were maybe not getting what you needed at the time or realize that there were bigger and better opportunities outside of college for you. So would you mind speaking to us about that? Mehak: Yeah, for sure. So, you know, I grew up in a family where it was super important to go to college. My parents both went through multiple years of schooling. So for me to turn around and be like, hey guys, I don't think that college is the right spot for me, I had to really sit back and think about like what what's really important to me and where -- what's the direction that I want to go into. And from what I've seen, especially within the marketing world and the startup world, uh, it's not that important to have a degree anymore. People want to see that you're, you're experienced, you're putting yourself out there, you're trying new things, and that's how you're supposed to build your resume today. And I just realized that I wasn't doing that in college. So I was able to make that point to my parents and just say that, hey, I actually think I'm going to learn a lot more moving out to San Francisco, doing things on my own, putting myself out there than I am if I sat in the classroom. So it was, it was a hard thing to, to show them. But at the end of the day it was, it was the right move for me because I'm just not a person who learns well listening to someone talk at me for a few hours. Anne: Very interesting. You know, and as we have discussed before, I have a long, a long career in, and I actually worked for a magnet school, which yeah, actually did a hands-on, project-based curriculum, which worked really well for the students who were just really motivated in wanting to go do things and, and run the world, kind of, kind of thing. So it worked really well. So I understand that mentality a lot. And I do believe that there needs to be some changes in our educational system to serve the students better. And I feel like you have probably encapsulated that with SkillBank, and prior to that with your other media companies. So talk to us a little bit about your Jamocha Media company first, and then I'd love to hear about SkillBank. Mehak: Yeah. So Jamocha Media started off as a vehicle for me to learn on other people's dime. So if I wanted to build websites or if I wanted to create content, or I was trying to pick up a social media client, whatever it might be, I just put them all under Jamocha Media as a client. And over the span of four years, we slowly were able to start to scale things up, going from making websites for people to running the social media accounts, to building people a presence on LinkedIn. And after about three or four years of working on Jamocha, we had basically figured out a formula around how to get people a viewership on LinkedIn. So we were, like you said, we were pulling in about anywhere from like 2 to 3 million views a month in the platform. And it was, it was really interesting to see how things grow online and how like, once you figure out that formula and that way to get things to work, you can blow anyone up and help anyone build a brand and a presence online. So that's really what we focused on at Jamocha. Towards the end of my time working on it, it was how do we, how do we at scale help a lot of people build their personal brands online? It was just a way for me in the beginning to experiment and just to try out different things. And slowly we just niched down into LinkedIn. Anne: Well, you know, I think it really says something too. I know that when I was an adjunct professor, I was teaching social media at a college, and it was really a difficult thing to do because I had to keep creating new curriculum in order to stay current. And that was something that was so difficult to get through the paperwork, the process, the revisions, and, and even to get funding for, because I was teaching, gosh, it was how many years ago, Facebook ads when they were just coming out. And it was hard to actually teach unless I could actually do it myself. And so I had to fund my own ads so that I could actually show how that worked. And so I completely understand that there's definitely, in terms of like keeping things current and relevant and trying to get that through the university level educational system, it's just very difficult. So you really found a great place, I think, and something that's very needed for today, for today's entrepreneur. Mehak: Yeah. That's, that's really cool. And you know, it's, it's one of those things that as I was building out Jamocha like you said, things were constantly changing. Anne: Yeah. Mehak: The algorithms were changing, the way that people were interacting with LinkedIn was changing. And that's what eventually actually was the reason why I ended up leaving Jamocha and not wanting to work on it anymore was because it was -- over time, it was just became so much harder to scale because things were changing so quickly. And I realized if we couldn't scale the services that we were giving people, because we were so dependent on the platforms, maybe we could scale the people that were giving the services. And that's what led me into wanting to start SkillBank, because we realized if we could teach people how to learn, and how to stay on top of the trends, and how to stay on top of social media, and how these platforms work, then maybe we can, we can build a scalable agency that way. And yeah, that's, that's how a SkillBank was born. Anne: Excellent. Excellent. I love the idea behind that, because it really is something that I feel that it's a constant process where to be successful out there and to keep up, you constantly have to be learning. And there are so many people, creatives in the entrepreneur world, that are not necessarily technologically inclined, nor are they inclined to understand marketing. That's not really their background. So I think having an educational platform that can really teach people how to learn and teach people and get them started, I think that's a wonderful idea. Tell me a little bit about the unique program that you have with Skillbank. What does it offer? Mehak: Yeah, so we actually started off teaching just growth marketing. So like -- actually not just; it was like everything under the sun; it was very general. So we taught paid media, so Facebook ads and Google ads. We taught organic marketing. We taught social media, uh, and it was always in 15 weeks. And we ran our first five cohorts doing that. And what we found was is our students that were leaving the program were -- they're having some trouble finding jobs. You know, they were like, this is Jack of all trades. They just didn't quite understand one thing really well. And it was hard for them to take that with them into their next job because they just didn't learn a specific thing. So that's when we decided to pivot. So now we just teach paid media. We just teach Facebook ads and Google ads over the span of 15 weeks. And within that time period, we get you agency ready and connect you with agencies at the end of the program. So that way we can help you land a full-time job doing paid media or being a paid media specialist or an account executive at an agency. Anne: Wow. That's fantastic. That's even above and beyond just teaching you how to do paid ads. So that's fantastic you even place people. And so how long have you been doing this program and how have your placements gone? Mehak: Yeah, so we, we just moved over into doing paid media in March. Anne: Okay. Mehak: So right now, based on the people that are, when someone graduates from the program, we're seeing about a 70-75% placement rate right now. Anne: Nice. Mehak: It hasn't been a full 180 days yet. And that's usually the industry standard for graduating from something and then landing a job. But we're expecting that number to definitely rise and get a lot higher. The curriculum is also getting better and better. We're using previous students that are coming back to us saying that, hey, you know, we wish maybe we would have learned this. And then we add that into our curriculum. So it's a really iterative process. And because the classes are so short, we really iterate it with the students as well. So every cohort so far has just been getting better and better and better. Anne: So are you offering these classes, are they -- to the general public? Mehak: Yes. Anne: I mean, what is your typical student look like? Are they young? Are they people who've been out in the industry for a while, and they come and they, they're like, I really need to know how to do paid? How, how is that working? Mehak: Our ideal demographic of the student is someone that is just ready to work. They're motivated, they're ready to land that job. We've taken people that are working at Starbucks like 50 to 60 hour weeks to now working at an agency full-time within the span of four to five months. So if you, if you know that marketing is something that you want to get into, you're motivated, you're willing to put the work in, we'll help you get to that next step. I think a lot of people come to SkillBank expecting us to be a silver bullet. You know, like they'll come into the program. We'll, we'll just hand you a job. Anne: Yeah. Mehak: And this is not how it works at all. So as long as you're motivated and you, you know that you're coming in and you have to put in a lot of time and effort, we can help you get over to that next phase. But right now on average, our classes, I think the age is anywhere between about 28 to about 35. Anne: Okay, okay. Mehak: And yeah, it's people that are in all different types of fields. We have people that are working at Starbucks, CVS to people that are making a career shift from programming because they aren't enjoying sitting behind the computer. So yeah, it really just depends on where you are, but you're just ready to work at an agency and get a job. Anne: So your program is also very unique and very different because you pay nothing until you land a job. Talk to me about that. Mehak: Yeah. So we, we really believe that opportunity should be to anyone that wants to work hard and wants to put in the work and wants to put in the effort. Opportunity shouldn't just be based on where you're from, what your educational background is or who you know, And to make opportunities available to people that are willing to work hard, we decided to make the program completely free upfront. So what that means is, is after you have graduated from our program and you're making over $30,000 a year, that's when you start to pay us back 10% of your salary -- Anne: Got it. Mehak: -- and that's over two years. Anne: Okay. Okay. Wow. That's a really unique idea. I think that's fantastic, especially with the way education is costing these days. It's something that truly is, again, so many people are talking about how we really need like educational reform. And this is a really wonderful way to do that. So how has it worked out so far? Mehak: It's been great. You know, whenever people come into the program, we're very, very, hands-on from the moment they enter to the moment that they leave. So, uh, once people actually land that job, it's been really exciting to see people through that process. And, you know, we've, we've been able to build a really strong community with everyone that's gone through the program, has graduated, been placed. And because of that, it's a lifelong thing. It's not just you go through the program and then you get a job and then you never hear from us again. Um, we're still throwing events. We're still in touch with a lot of the students. The students are coming back to talk to new students. So it's, it's been really good. It's been really cool to see people grow and come into their own over the span of a year since we've started. Anne: And this is 100% remote, correct? Mehak: Yeah. Completely remote. All of our classes take place on Zoom, and they're in the evenings. So that way you can do your full-time day job and then come and take us whenever you get. Anne: Nice. And so you were mentioning that some of your students come back. They come back to talk to the current students, but do you also have programs like refresher programs in terms of -- 'cause as we say, everything changes so frequently. Are you thinking of offering refresher programs or maybe paid programs that if people two years ago, you know -- Mehak: Yeah, for sure. Anne: -- they might need something new? Yeah. Mehak: Absolutely. You know, I think the biggest thing that we really push on in the program from day one is that we're trying to teach them how to learn. So we'll give you those, those building blocks and those stepping stones and help you get started. But a lot of our program is centered around, how do you read documentation? How do you get started on something on your own? How do you do research? Because the last thing that we want is our students are falling behind, because they were just shown how to do something, and then they just know how to do that thing. So we really put a really big emphasis on the program for them to learn. Uh, but over the span of the next few months, we're launching a lot of really exciting new things in SkillBank. So we have, we'll have a portal that's launching that they can actually come in and review classes that they had in the past. Anne: Oh nice. Mehak: They'll be able to see previous curriculum -- curriculum as it's being updated. And then we also offer to the students that if they want to come in and sit in on a class again, they're more than welcome to come and do that. Anne: Oh, that's fantastic. So in terms of the classes that you're offering, they're just becoming more and more. What is your staff like? How many teachers do you have? Mehak: Yeah, so we, we currently have right now about two instructors per cohort, one that acts as more of a TA and is around to help. And then, um, your main instructor and then, yeah, you know, our, our team is really small, but we, we hit all the things. So whenever a student comes into a program, they get assigned to a career advisor and, um, this career advisors with them throughout their time in the program to help them with preparing for mock interviews, getting the resume together, um, getting interviews together, salary negotiations, we cover all of that. And then you have your career advisor that's with you through that program. We also have our admissions counselor who's there with you to make sure that you understand the contract that you're signing and there to just help you throughout your time and to make sure that you're getting the support that you need along with your instructors. Anne: Yeah. I was going to ask you about the admissions. Is there a vetting process to, to enroll? Mehak: Yes, absolutely. Because the biggest thing, like I said earlier, is we want to make sure that you're ready to work, and you're ready to land a job within the next three to six months. If you're not in that place in your life, then SkillBank is not the place for you because the whole program is centered around helping you land a full-time job within the next six months. Anne: Now, are you teaching job search or the placement? Are you always placing people or are you teaching about job searching and resume? Mehak: -- teach about job search. Yeah, so we covered job search, we cover resume building, but a lot of our placement strategy right now, we have agencies that we're partnered with that we'll send out resumes to. And that's been a really great funnel for us, but also students will come to us and say, hey, I found this company that I'm really excited to work at, and then we'll help you prepare. And if it's someone that's within our network or our investors know, we will make intros as well. So we're really hands-on with the students to make sure that we're placing them into the type of company that they want to work at. But it's also just really important that if you do come into our program with that expectation of us placing you, that you also understand that you have to put in that work as well. Anne: Sure. Mehak: You still have to get your resume together. You still have to prepare for mock interviews. Like I said earlier, students sometimes come into the program expecting that like, okay, I graduated, and now SkillBank will help me land a job. And it doesn't work like that. The companies that we're partnered with still want to see that you're coming in prepared and that you know what you're talking about. Anne: Sure, sure. What do you see for the future of SkillBank? What are you looking to do? Mehak: Yeah, absolutely. So the whole premise of SkillBank is we want to help you learn market ready skills as quickly as possible so that we can go and land a job. So right now we're just focusing on marketing. It's paid media. We plan on going into organic at some point in the next couple of years, lifecycle marketing. And then eventually we want to completely own the non-technical space, moving into sales, operations. I think, you know, there's a lot of coding boot camps out there that are covering the technical aspects, the data boot camps. We want to cover everything that's non-technical. And then the really beautiful thing about that is it's not about putting the reps by on your own. It's just about learning, how do these platforms work, and then just learning just enough so that way we can actually help you get your foot in the door within that field. So our structure is a lot different and a lot quicker than these bootcamps that'll take 9 to 12 months to help you land a job that are a lot more technical. Anne: So talk to me a little bit about, because I'm so interested, the, the mayor. Mehak: Yes. Anne: Was that, was that before SkillBank or after Jamocha and before SkillBank -- Mehak: Way before SkillBank. Anne: So talk to me about, yeah, your interest in running for mayor. I think that's really inspiring. Mehak: Yeah. You know, I been living in SF for a couple of years when I decided to run, and I was just, I was really inspired by just the city. You know, there was, I was learning so much while I was there. It's just, it's such a beautiful city. And I just, I looked around at my friends and the people that were there and I was working with, and I, you know, it just, I realized that there wasn't -- there wasn't much ownership from my age group around how the city was progressing and the way things were going. And I realized that maybe I could take that into my own hands and maybe try to bring some more awareness and excitement to the SF political system. I highly recommend not running at such a young age. Anne: What did you learn? Mehak: It was a -- I learned SF politics is very interesting place to be in, but you know, at the same time, I'm glad I did it. I learned a lot about the system. I learned a lot about just how SF politics works, how California politics works. Uh, but yeah, definitely never doing that again. Anne: But it might've opened up your networking circle or maybe not the way you intended it to. Mehak: Yeah. You know, it was quite an experience. I don't know. I'm not really interacting with those people right now -- Anne: Right. Mehak: -- just based on what we're doing with SkillBank -- Anne: Sure. Mehak: -- but yeah. You know, I think overall I learned a lot just about what with SF politics right now they're really focusing on. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Well, what I love about it is that it's, it's just bold. It was such a bold move. And I think that that's such a trait of a, an amazing entrepreneur. So for my BOSSes out there that listen to this podcast who are entrepreneurs and all ages, really. As a matter of fact, I know quite a few of them are probably not millennial age. They're a little bit older, maybe thinking about this as a new career for them -- what would be your best advice for entrepreneurship? How can they build and grow a business today? It's such a crazy world out there. What would be your best tips? Mehak: Yeah, my, my first piece of advice to someone who comes up to me, and they're like, hey, should I start a business? Should I get into entrepreneurship? My first thing is to say, don't do it. And then if, and then if you hear that, and you're like, no, I still want to do it, then it's like, okay, here's, here's the things that you really need to think about. You have to build something that you're really passionate about. You can't start a business in a space -- because startups are hard, you know? Anne: Yeah. Mehak: There's days that work, there's days that things are working and like you're on cloud nine. And then the next day things are crashing and burning. Anne: Yeah. Mehak: And if you don't have conviction around what you're building and what you're excited about doing, you're setting yourself up for failure. So I think that's, that's the main thing that you really want to keep close to you. Is it, is this the thing that you want to be building? Is this the thing that you see yourself spending your time on? And if you're passionate about creating something and building something, I think entrepreneurship is the right place for you to be in. I think if you're in it for the money, if you're in it for fame or just not the actual process of building something and seeing something come to life, I think you're going to have a lot of trouble within that process. So I think just making sure that your incentives are aligned correctly and you know why you're doing what you're doing, I think that's, that's the biggest thing. Anne: So then we're convinced and we're passionate and we start our business. What would you say are the best ways to market that business in today's highly technical, online world and digitally chaotic, I should say, digitally chaotic? Mehak: For sure. Anne: So it's hard to get noticed. Mehak: There's two ways you can drive traffic. It's organically, or you can drive traffic through paid media. I think if you're going to take the paid media route, make sure that you have a budget so you can test things out. Anne: Sure. Mehak: But if you're going to take the organic route, I've been recommending to all my friends to start using TikTok. I think TikTok has an incredible algorithm for how they actually help you find an audience. If you're creating content that's engaging, is fun, it's following the trends, you'll be able to build an audience relatively quickly. I actually just picked up TikTok maybe about a month ago and probably pulled in about 4 million views, 10,000 new followers. And, you know, it's just by consistently putting things out and watching what other creators are doing within your space, you can sell, you can sell products, you can build a brand. Um, and I think TikTok is the best place to do that. And they'll also funnel an audience to your Instagram and to your YouTube. So yeah, I highly recommend taking the TikTok route. Anne: So then are you, are you talking about SkillBank on TikTok or are you just -- Mehak: For sure. Anne: -- okay. Is that the kind of content that you're putting out on TikTok? Mehak: Yeah, so, I mean, it's, it's a mix, right? My personal TikTok has a lot to do with just me. So it's like, you know, like we'll push a lot of content around. Like one of my employees is like running -- that's running the SkillBank TikTok, she'll push something up that's like making fun of me or making fun of my TikTok. And then like, we'll do a little back and forth. Uh, you know, we just, we found the voice, right? So it's like, my TikTok is more mainly about me and like telling my stories, but I talk a lot about SkillBank -- Anne: Okay. Mehak: -- or like being a CEO or like running my company. And it's through that process of getting to know me, you also get to know SkillBank, but then on the SkillBank page, we're like really focusing on how do we get people to understand what our value props are, what we're trying to teach, who our students are, where you can land a job. Yeah. I think it's, it's, it's a lot of trial and error. I've seen other companies that are just like straight to the punch -- Anne: Sure. Mehak: -- of just, hey, this is our product. This is what we do. And like, come buy it. And then they're, they found creative ways to do that and they're blowing up, but then you have other companies like Duolingo on TikTok that are being really funny. And they've like literally found a mascot that like walks around and like is like doing really silly stuff. So I think it just depends on what you're trying to do and who your, what kind of audience you're going after, but everyone is on TikTok from my mom to my little sister. Anne: And what's so interesting I know for a lot of people in our industry, voice talent, voice talent, you know, long time ago when people would ask, well, why did you want to get into voiceover, a lot of people would say, well, because I don't want to be on camera. I wanted to be an actor, but I didn't want to be on camera. So interestingly enough, and of course, video, I think is the medium that people are able to digest it easier than other types of media. So I think that it's absolutely effective for marketing, but I know a lot of our BOSSes out there are very resistant to actually going on to video. But I do know some of them that have really made a mark with their TikTok accounts. Any other platforms that you like? Mehak: Yeah. I think TikTok's the best. I think YouTube, if you're trying to maybe post more tutorials or how to's, if it's the tutorial that people are searching for, you can build a brand that way. YouTube's a search engine at the end of the day. Anne: Yeah. Mehak: So if you're creating content that people are searching for, you can build a brand there. And then I think Instagram is a really good place to be your homepage on the web right now. Anne: Okay. Mehak: You can have your link, your content, but if you're trying to build a brand, TikTok is by far the best place to be right now. Anne: Okay. Any final advice for BOSS entrepreneurs out there? Mehak: Absolutely. You know, just work hard and find what makes you happy, find what makes you excited to get up in the morning. And if you can figure that out, all of the money and the success and the fame and everything else will come along with that. Anne: I love it. I love it. Mehak, it has been such a pleasure talking to you today. Thank you so much. Mehak: Thank you so much for having me. This was great. Anne: I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like a BOSS and find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, be BOSSes, go out and do something that you love and have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Bye. Mehak: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Have you deconstructed the pay-to-play algorithm? We haven’t either, but we’re close! In this episode, Anne & Laya discuss the evolution of P2P’s from a talent-client connection tool to the modern algorithmic matching game. They share how to use P2P’s as a learning tool, how to build them into your business model, and why they have such a polarizing reputation… Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza along with my very, very special guest cohost Laya Hoffman. Laya: Hey Anne. Anne: Good morning, Laya. How are you? Laya: Good morning. It's chilly and the a -- in the dirty south, but I'm hanging in there. Glad to be back talking with you, of course. We always have such great conversations these days. I'm loving it. Anne: Yeah. That we do. And I wanted to kind of talk a little bit. We had talked last episode about casting, and we touched upon pay-to-plays -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- and that's always such a big topic in the voiceover land. Laya: Sure is. Anne: And I thought that it would be something that we could talk about today and just share our experiences that we've had, successes, I don't know, fails. Yeah. Let's let's chat about pay-to-play, shall we? Laya: We shall. I have quite a bit of experience. I think I have like a modern mindset perspective on pay-to-plays. So it'd be a great fit for our theme, right? Anne: Let's go from the old mindset first, because I -- Laya: Okay. Anne: -- back in the day, I swear it was like back in 2000-something when Voice123 came onto the scene. I was an early, early adopter of that. Laya: As was I. Anne: Yep, and I remember having quite a bit of success with Voice123. I actually really loved the model because it allowed me to upload all my demos and samples and basically get job opportunities from different clients. And there was basically no interference. I got to have the opportunity from the client, communicate with the client, book a job with a client. And then actually a lot of times the client would just then come to me without necessarily having to go through Voice123 for the next job. So I kind of liked that. It was a win situation I think for all of us because I paid a membership fee to Voice123, and I got my job. And then every once in a while, if I had repeat clients, they would come back to me, not necessarily having to go through Voice123, but it wouldn't have even mattered to be honest with you, because if they favorited me, they didn't have to audition again. So it just worked out really well. And it has certainly evolved over the years. It's been a good 15 or so years now of pay-to-plays being on the scene. There are so many more of them. Laya: Yeah. Anne: But I found them to be extremely lucrative in the beginning when I started. And now I've got a different opinion, but let me hear about your -- let's hear about your experience -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- in the beginning with pay-to-plays. Laya: Yeah, I feel the same way. I mean, as we've mentioned before, you know, I really only dove in full time about three years ago, but I'd always been doing voice work. And I was an early adopter of Voice123 as well. I've been a member since 2011, so over 10 years. And that was just back when it was kind of toying with this cool, you know, I mean, everything on the web seemed to be fresh and new. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And they were among the first to kind of harness the power of connecting talent with buyers. Right? And so how great. They made it easy, they kind of one-stop shopped it, and they didn't get in your way. And the price was fair because there wasn't a whole lot of reach. Anne: Yeah. Laya: I mean, we all know how this has evolved over the last few years, especially. It's been a different experience for a lot of people, but I had the same experience you did early on. And then I kind of went dormant for several years. Didn't really put a whole lot of effort in, but on occasion I would still get hit up even with my like really crappy samples back then. I didn't know what I was doing. And so it was kind of a nice lead source, right? Lead gen for me. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Laya: And I think it was for a lot of people. So I'm glad you share the same sentiment. Anne: Yeah. Now, I think it's fair to say that any pay-to-play, no matter what, seems to be a game of having really great demos and not just one of them uploaded on a pay-to-play. Laya: Yeah. Anne: I think all of the pay-to-plays subscribed to that. The more samples that you have -- because it's all a matching game. It's all a search algorithm and a matching game. And that's kind of like the secret of Google, but in pay-to-plays, right? Laya: Yeah, yeah. Anne: We all were trying to debug the algorithm so that we could get the opportunities sooner and faster and get more of those either likes or stars on the system. And I just remember probably going back maybe close to eight to ten years ago, people started then having classes on here's how to optimize your experience, right? Or this is what you want to -- kind of like how to optimize your profile on a pay-to-play. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So for BOSSes out there, I want to say that pay-to-plays are absolutely a part of this industry. They're not going away anytime soon. Laya: Nope, that's right. Anne: And I do believe that they are part of your opportunities that you need to look out for when you are trying to get business and grow your voiceover business. Laya: Yeah. I would agree with you, Anne, and I actually -- you know, there is such a negative connotation about pay-to-plays, whether people are on -- I will wrap the Fiverrs of the world into the pay-to-play model, just because in a way you are optimizing a profile. Anne: Yup. Laya: You're using somebody else's house to promote your business -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- as opposed to just doing it yourself on your own website, your own LinkedIn page, et cetera. But I think no matter how you cut your marketing pie and your opportunity pie, you got to eat from each of those sections, especially in the beginning just to get your footing. Right? Anne: Absolutely. Laya: Just to kind of understand what is out there, what types of reads suit you best, where you sit. I mean, I said it on a previous episode and it's absolutely true, although I'm not entirely proud of it. Early on the pay-to-plays to me were practice ground. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And I know that's not the popular way to think of those things because you are putting yourself out there, and it's important that you do so with dignity and grace and respect and present a professional profile, no matter what, but that's how I learned some things -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- in the privacy of my home, in my studio, in my mic, my Skid Row Studios. Anne: And you know what I understand the thought process of here you are putting yourself out there and maybe you're not putting yourself out there with the best foot forward, but at some point you do have to put yourself out there, and your very first time that you put your voice out there, it's not going to be optimal. And so I think where else, right? Whereas I think a better place -- and I'm not saying that you're going to learn, I think probably more by doing it in kind of an open marketplace, and here's the deal. There's always, there's always clients out there. Right? Laya: Yeah. Anne: And so the one client that might hear your sample and says, "oh, you know, that's not up to par" or maybe they hear your audition, and they're like, "oh no, that's not" -- I mean, the one thing that you don't want is maybe a negative rating because that will hurt you on the pay-to-plays. You don't want to have people -- Laya: For sure. Anne: -- saying things, but I don't think in the normal run of things that somebody's gonna rate you -- well, they might rate you poorly or write a note and say, well, I would never hire this person. Laya: No. Anne: I think that in the grand scheme of things, that doesn't happen, and I would consider it an investment in your business, an investment to finding out here are the types of jobs that are available out there and get yourself used to the different styles. I think once you've coached, you've created your demos, and you're not actively out there coaching, you may not see the current relevant scripts or styles that are out there and being hired. So I think that's -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- so important to do that. So I think pay-to-plays are definitely something that you should have in your toolbox. And like you said, you're paying to play in someone else's house. I prefer always to have the control in my house, but you know, when you're first starting, I think you have to just create as many opportunities as you can. Laya: Yeah. I would agree with that. And the other thing I like about pay-to-plays that I don't think we talk enough about is the opportunity to learn from others. You know, you can go onto voices.com, not as a member and not have a profile yourself -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and just learn from the top tier talent that are booking every week. You know, they've got their top tens in female, in male, top 100 this month, you know, biggest earners, top 10. And you can go scrub through those profiles -- Anne: Listen. Yup. Laya: -- and learn by listening -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and by reading how they optimize or how they describe their voice or vocal tone, some of their capabilities, some of their sound-alikes, you know, and that in itself, I think every profile on every one of these pay-to-play opportunities, there is something to learn there, if you're willing to take the time with open eyes and an open mind to really see what everyone else is bringing to the table. And that way you can learn, whether you're a VO pro or you're a novice, there's always something to learn from these sites. So if we can scrub off the negative connotation on these and really just use them as a learning vehicle, whether it's a practice vehicle or just learning by watching and listening, then there's definitely something to gain whether you're a member or not. Anne: Yeah. And speaking of the negative connotations for, I dunno, BOSSes just starting out in the industry, there are some online casting pay-to-plays that do not have the best of reputations. And I think if you were to research any of the voiceover groups and do a search for the particular name of the pay-to-play that you might be researching, you'll find lots and lots and lots of discussion about that. Laya: Yes. Anne: And I think it becomes a personal decision. So just in a nutshell, some of the pay-to-plays have been found to be maybe unscrupulous, maybe some business practices that may not align with what others may think as being ethical. And so I think it really, it really comes down to you. This is your business and you choose who you want to do business with. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So I would say before you invest in any of the pay-to-plays, make sure you're doing some research on which ones you're interested in and see what other people are saying. There's a lot of people saying a couple of these are definitely not practicing ethical business practices. So if you want to align yourself with that business or not, I think that's a personal decision. Laya: I would agree with that. And you brought up a great point. I don't think enough VO talent use that search resource within voiceover specific groups on Facebook, for instance. You can literally type in Voice123 -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- or Voices or Fiverr or any -- VO Planet, any of the names, the big names. Before you buy your membership, do yourself a favor and scrub those pages, those groups for those keywords, because everybody has done the -- done the work for you. Anne: Yup. Laya: Trust me, there's probably a million, and everybody's got an opinion, you know. Anne: Sure do. Laya: Form your own by reading and taking it with a grain of salt, reading between the lines a little bit, because that's not for us to just go -- we can spend months talking about that. Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: And then we're not here for that. Just as a guide to say, there are resources out there that'll give you a look behind the curtain -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and plenty of conversations around this. And again, just do what's best for your business. So I'm happy to share what I've done that's best for mine, if you want to talk about it or we can dive in a little bit. Anne: Yeah, well, I think one thing I just want to tap off of what you just said is it is all about your business. And I always have my favorite saying, and that is mind your own business, not -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- you know, not into additional sense of, but you need to mind your own business and what's good for you in terms of how you want to invest, how you want to align yourself, how you're going to get those job opportunities, because you know, voiceover is an amazing career. However, it's not an amazing career when you don't have any jobs. So -- Laya: Yeah, yeah. Anne: -- this is a major component of that. And I'll just start off by saying currently now over the years, I've evolved. Thankfully, gratefully I've evolved where I have a nice customer base. I have a nice set of returning customers. I do some direct marketing, and we had talked about that previously as well. And I am a member of a couple of pay-to-plays. However, I'm gratefully busy enough that I don't have time to always audition for them, but they remain in my pocket for times when maybe the job opportunities are on the low side so that I can always, oh, let me go ahead and audition for this. Let's see what happens. Laya: Right. Anne: So I have some good experiences with a couple that I feel are aligned with my business, ideals and practices, and they kind of sit there at the ready for me. Laya: And I think not only are they a resource to tap into when you need them or when you've got a little extra time, especially as you evolved your voiceover business. I'm kind of getting to the same point as well. And I'm super grateful for that. Anne: Yup. Laya: But I also keep those profiles optimized -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- and present because their SEO beats the heck out of mine. Anne: Yup, well, absolutely. Laya: And I can never put as much advertising into my own business to outweigh the SEO that, let's say, a Voice123 does. They put all their money into that. And they really own the market share in a lot of ways. Now, there are some talent, yourself as one of them, that have incredible SEO and have managed to really make huge leaps and bounds in that area. But for me, who doesn't spend a lot of money or time optimizing my personal site, not as much as I probably could, I use them for a search. You know, I'm just another great voice that they can find in search as part of the -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- bigger marketplace of buyers looking. Anne: Well, have you seen, if you do a Google search for anything voiceover, the first results that show up are all the voiceover pay-to-plays. Laya: Yes. Anne: And that's because every member has some form of the word voiceover in their profile -- Laya: Yup, that's right. Anne: -- we -- you -- Laya: We've done it. Anne: -- probably couldn't pay enough. Although Fiverr has certainly paid, like I remember, gosh, they've been paying Google ads forever for voiceovers. So if you search for anything voiceover, one of the top results that will show up is Fiverr. So it is an SEO kind of search game. And just as you said, as you optimize your profile -- which that was always a key element, a key strategy. When you are part of a pay-to-play, you want to make sure that you have a profile that is searchable and that can show up when -- when a client wants to find a voice that is compassionate or has experience in, let's say, healthcare or technical. So you want to make sure that that profile is optimized to react to those searches. And there are lots and lots of classes on these and that you can take, if you want some help with that. Laya, I think you mentioned to me before you had taken a class on how to optimize your profile for pay-to-plays. Laya: Yeah, I sure did. You know, I, it's a tough thing to talk about yourself. When you really put your fingers on the keyboard and you really have got to start to identify what your sample sound is described as, or how do you talk about yourself as a -- from a bio? Anne: Sure. Laya: Do you -- is it first person? Is it third person? That sometimes can be a really big block for us creatives because I'm not a copywriter. And certainly I could tell somebody else what they sound like, but it's really hard to narrow down in your own mind what your samples sound like -- Anne: Oh, so true. Laya: -- and how they stack against anybody else that might be in your same space. And so I found a really great resource in two fellow voice talent, Katherine Toll, and Natasha Marchesky. I hope I'm pronouncing her last name correctly, but they do a service. I think it's called VO Pros or -- Anne: V123 Pros, I believe. Laya: Yeah. V123 Pros. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And they offered like a, a short course and it was peer-led. Of course they were helping us with that and really trying to figure out how to curate and cultivate keywords that made sense for your voice print. And everyone got to participate together, listening to each other's and then providing feedback. I found that to be incredibly eyeopening because it is so hard to describe your own voice. Anne: Sure, sure. Laya: So that's where I started. And then it was so beneficial and so eye opening to me because of course, I am a member of Voice123 and Voices, and I was able to apply those same key words not just on my pay-to-play profiles but on my own website. Anne: Website. Laya: Yeah, and so that, I was able to use that information a plethora of ways. And I was so impressed by the process, I actually hired those two talented ladies to optimize my profile one-on-one and just let me take my hands off the wheel because we were going to crash, and it really paid off. So yeah. Anne: It does help. It does help to have another set of ears listening -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- to you and helping to brand you. I mean, that's just every day when I'm working with students that I'm vocally branding them -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- because it's very hard to brand yourself, as you mentioned. Laya: Yes, it is. Anne: And it does help to have others' ears and eyes. And I'll tell you what, one of the most popular podcasts, by the way, BOSS podcasts to this date even is Bad-Ass BOSS Bios. Laya: Oh yeah. Anne: So you can check that out. Yeah. Do a search on that. We have a template that can help you to write your bio. This bio was intended for everything, your website, profiles, and it's how to write your bio better. And those BOSSes out there that are thinking of parallel income streams and multiple passion-preneurs that you are, if you're good at writing, and you're good at writing bios, here's a nice side business for you. Laya: Yeah, it is. Oh my gosh. Anne: Because so many people just don't know what to write or it's very difficult. And so that I would say is a great little sideline business. Laya: Oh, I love that. Yeah. I might need the template myself, because it is, it's hard to kind of present yourself to the world. You know, you get nervous, you get a little anxious, and you want to make sure that you're using, of course, proper punctuation -- Anne: Sure, absolutely. Laya: -- and the right descriptive words, and you're not totally over yourself or underselling yourself. Anne: Yeah. Laya: That's a big thing too. And so I loved what they were able to curate for my voiceprint. And I've applied that, like I said, to not only my profiles, but my website -- Anne: Yep. Laya: - so much, so is as soon as we flipped the switch on my profile, and it was optimized fully, I got hit up directly by a very, very nice paying client without even auditioning. So it essentially paid for itself. And that was a win for me. Now, I know that's, you know, maybe not the case in every situation, but that really took a big burden off of my shoulders. Anne: Sure. Laya: And like we talked about earlier, you know, if you can't do it, outsource it, and those, those two really helped me out. So that was one way to win on pay-to-plays for me. But I found some other ways over the years too. So. Anne: Well, I do want to make a mention that even if you're not a member of the pay-to-play or we'll just go back and retouch on this topic. If it wasn't evident before, go ahead and create a profile, a free profile -- Laya: Oh yeah. Anne: -- because that just helps you in terms of -- the more SEO you can get online, the better. Laya: Yep. Anne: So if you can create a free profile, I say, go ahead. I mean, it just makes you available and out there on more search engines. So definitely make sure that you're creating those profiles. I think I had a free profile on a couple of them, and I got direct inquiries from them. So, and I got jobs -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- without even necessarily having to belong to the pay-to-play. So that was always a good thing. Laya: That's right. Yeah, sure is, Anne. And I don't think people realize that enough. They're like, God, I got to pay for a membership? Anne: Yup. Laya: Well, yes. And I would say this. For me, my business strategy is if there is going to be an opportunity where I'm going to invest, I want to invest all in at this -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- point in my business. Anne: Sure. Laya: I want that premium or that platinum level membership. Because even if, like you mentioned, even if I'm not contributing and doing the auditions on a regular basis, that's going to optimize my visibility to be the cream of the crop when other buyers are looking for voices. So while I may not be active on these sites, at least my profile is hitting -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- the first rung in search. And I find that in itself to be a huge value and actually pay for the cost of, you know, the party. Right? Anne: Right, right. Laya: So if you can even get one client out of that, then you may have paid for your year subscription or whatever. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Laya: And that's something to consider. Anne: Now, you mentioned that there are different levels and that is something -- of these pay-to-plays -- that is something that as of late, right, all of the pay-to-plays, I believe, have kind of taken on this -- well, okay. There was a one membership fee that, you know, for many years you paid one membership fee. And then eventually over the years, I think the majority of them started creating these levels of membership. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And so I think that's where it started for me to really think, whoa, now I see where -- before it was just like, oh, okay. A membership, you know, they make a profit, I get jobs. I make a profit. And I felt like we were on a level playing ground. Then when pay-to-plays became, I don't know, maybe the voiceover industry grew, and they became more competitive with one another. And then they started creating these levels. I thought, huh, I see. I wonder how these levels are actually working, because here's the deal. I love having control over my business. So when somebody is playing around with an algorithm, right -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- and saying, okay, if you pay another amount, you're going to get listed higher in the search engines or you'll get the jobs earlier. Then it really, I start really thinking about, well, I have no control over how they're judging when I'm getting an audition or not. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And will I be first on the list? But it became this kind of race to buy the platinum memberships or buy the high level memberships that would get you the auditions quicker so that you could get the opportunities quicker. And I think for a while, it actually was something that worked for some people. And I think some people, they did not see results. And so all that kind of discussion that started happening made me start to question, okay, so how are these working? My technical brain, 'cause you know, I used to work in technology, started spinning and saying, oh, what are they really doing to get me better opportunities? So I did join a platinum level back in the day. And I did find that I got more opportunities. However, I was so busy that I couldn't take advantage of it as much, which was silly because I paid a lot of money. But I do believe that up to a certain point, paying for those levels and upgrading those levels does give you a better shot. However, I don't know how much control you have over that. I don't know, Laya. Laya: Yeah. Anne: What are your thoughts about that? Laya: You know, I feel the same way. It's really, it feels icky, right, when anybody's got their hand out or in your pocket, and you're a solo-preneur. Anne: Yeah. Laya: You're -- you own your business. And every bit of that investment needs to kind of be cross-checked. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: And if you're not getting the value, and that's not working for your business model, then you know, it's not for you. And that's okay. None of these solutions are for everybody. Anne: Sure. Laya: As far as the tiers go for me, there was a point in my career that I had the time, that I wasn't seeing a unique opportunities for my agents, and that the marketing efforts weren't bringing in as regular of bookable opportunities as I would have liked. I was on some production houses, et cetera. But so I really leaned into those, into Voice123 primarily, but Voices as well. And you know, I think what's interesting about those is I did notice a huge change when up-leveled as far as opportunities. I also got a lot of direct bookings that way. Anne: Myself too. Laya: Yep. And then private invites, if you're on Voices, by some of account managers. And I think it, depending on if you can book them will depend on whether or not those costs are justified. Anne: Sure. Laya: I personally saw a huge increase. And so I stayed at those levels. Now, I've since dropped down because the opportunities in my business is just busier, just like you mentioned, and I don't have time to audition, but I still do prefer more visibility from those premium levels on those sites. Anne: Sure. Laya: If I'm going to be there, I want to be at the top, and it's paid off in different ways. It's very hard to really gauge it. And you're a numbers person too. You're technical. Anne: Yep. Laya: So you want to- -- Anne: Oh, yeah. Laya: -- you want to see the ROI. Anne: Oh, definitely. Laya: It's very hard to gauge, but if you've been on them long enough and you've made a jump either up or down, I think it's pretty clear that the opportunities go where the levels do. And it's unfortunate they're doing that, but hey, they're business just like we are. Anne: Absolutely. And I think it's important to include them as opportunities. And now of course, I also include them for opportunities because I like to consider myself an educator in this industry. And so for me, it's also, it's an investment in an experience, right? So I can't tell you how many times, I mean, I've wanted to just join all of the pay-to-plays because I want to have that individual experience that I can then share with my students or share with people in the industry to say, here's my experience, because you know, we all like to help each other and lift each other up -- Laya: Yep. Anne: -- in this game. So I'm never one to judge anymore about which pay-to-play. That was a thing too, where there was like some public shaming if -- Laya: Yep. Anne: -- if you belong to one or another. But again, I'm of the thought that we should mind our own businesses and look, who am I to judge someone else if they're going to put food on the table. Laya: And that's just -- Anne: That's just not -- Laya: Yep, that's right. Anne: -- my thing. Laya: That's what it comes down to. And one of the things I heard out there, and again, we don't want to get into it, but is that some agents wouldn't sign you on -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- if you had placement on some of these pay-to-plays. Anne: I had heard too. Laya: That's something to consider if that's part of your end game strategy. Anne: Yep, yeah. Laya: For me, I want to be with a partner that has my best interest and -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- sometimes, if they can't feed me, I got to eat somewhere. Anne: Yeah, exactly. Laya: So until they can fully pay my entire mortgage and put food -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- on my family's table, I got to do what is best for my business. And for me, it was seeing some of those opportunities. Anne: Yeah. Laya: Now I will say, when it comes to the scrutiny, whether it's, there's hearsay about are these digital models pulling down the overall rates in the industry? Anne: Yes, that's a big indus- -- that's a big discussion. Laya: Exactly. And you know what I have to say about that? I think if you're a strong business person and you know what the standard rates are, it's very easy. Everyone can go to the GVAA -- Anne: Yep. Laya: - and weigh their own rates or their ideas about a project against the rate guide. Anne: Sure. Laya: And if you really want to stay true to that, which I do, then I only take a look or auditioned for the opportunities that are in alignment -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- with the standard industry rates. Anne: Absolutely. And that is always a choice. So glad you said that because -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- it is a choice. No matter what pay-to-play platform you're on or whoever you're working with, it is a choice where to put your value, which is why it comes down to know your worth, know your value. Laya: Right. Anne: Even on Fiverr, you can, you know what I mean? There's a way to set your value. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And as you mentioned, it is a real thing. There are some agents that will refuse to necessarily look your way if you are involved. And that is with some of the pay-to-plays because that is a brand alignment. And that is something as a business -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- you make that choice, whether you want to align your brand with another brand. And that's why, again, it's that whole kind of -- it's another level of control that's removed from you. If you are choosing to align yourself with a pay-to-play, then make sure that your business and ethical values line up together. And you know what? It is a real thing to other people that may affect your career, agents, casting directors, production houses, they may make a judgment based upon your affiliation. And so that is something to absolutely consider whether or not you want to do that. But at the end of the day, right, we all have the choice of what to do and come on, I'm going to get very real and very honest. Back in the day when I was just starting out in the industry, like, as you mentioned, sometimes we used the pay-to-plays to kind of practice. Sometimes we used to understand the industry better. And a lot of times, well, you know, in the beginning, I might've taken jobs that were under the GVAA rate guide. Laya: For sure. Anne: I'm just going to admit it. I think we all do. It's like one of those things that you hide and that you don't ever, just don't mention it because there are people out there saying don't bring the value of the industry down. And I get that. Laya: Of course. Anne: But here's the deal. It's going to happen in every industry, not just ours. Laya: Yeah. Anne: There's always the bottom feeders. And so, you know, it's nice to say we band together, and we know our worth. I think that's the general moral, like, takeaway from that is just know your worth. Know that you're worth more than if you're like, oh my God, I should only because I'm just beginning charge a little bit. No, you know, you've made an investment in your career. You are worth just as much as me, who's had 20 years experience, I'm just saying, when it comes down to it, so know your worth. I think that's the most important thing, and pay-to-plays, they're a viable option, viable option for you, BOSSes. Laya: Yeah. You can make your choices. You know, you don't have to audition for everything. Anne: Yep. Laya: You don't have to put your name in the hat for everything. Just like you don't have to audition for everything that your agent sends. Just like you don't have to say yes to every opportunity a client brings you. Anne: Yeah. Laya: It's really your choice and who is anybody else to judge on whether or not that makes sense for your business. So I'm so glad we talked about this. Anne: Me too. Laya: I feel like there are many different avenues when it comes to pay-to-plays. I think like we summed up, it all comes down to doing what's best for your business -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- at the time. And the, you know, the pace that's right for your business. Anne: Sure. Laya: -- and for all of us, that's different. So it was a great conversation. Anne: Yeah. We could probably, we could probably go on and on and on about this, but yeah. Laya: Yes. Anne: Awesome conversation, BOSSes. So those pay-to-plays are an option for you. Again, do what's best for you and your business. And hey, I'd like to give a great, big shout-out to another business who is upping my value here and upping our value for the VO BOSS podcast. And that is ipDTL. You guys can learn to connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- and we'll see you next week. Laya: Thanks. Anne: Bye. Laya: Bye-bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

The synthetic voice conversation is here. Do you want a seat at the table? Anne is joined by special guest Jon Stine for a bonus Voice & Ai episode. They cover what the Open Voice Network (OVN) is, how to be a part of it, and the importance of asking questions. What are the regulations for synthetic voices, how can VO industry members get involved, and are we willing to create the standards before they’re made for us…  

Just in case you were wondering, you definitely wear all the hats now. In today’s modern at-home recording world, you’re the voice, engineer, customer service department, and tech wizard of each session; and some of those hats can get pretty cumbersome. In this episode, Anne and Laya discuss what it takes to be a BOSS in the booth, and how to maximize your potential success with tools, tech, and processes that work. It’s not enough to just have a great voice or be an excellent performer anymore, but being a #VOBOSS in your booth is achievable. Learn how in this episode, jam-packed with ideas from these savvy bosses… Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza along with my very special guest co-host BOSS Laya Hoffman. Hey Laya, how are you? Laya: I'm great. Anne. How are you? Anne: I'm doing good. It's been a hectic week in the booth here, which is a good thing. I'm very grateful about that, but hectic in terms of I had clients who are asking a lot of me. Laya: Oh yeah? Anne: Not just voicing. Laya: Aren't they always? Anne: Yeah. Not just voicing in the booth, but they wanted playback. They wanted to invite the client in. And so I thought it would be a good day to talk about how to be the BOSS in the booth and handle these, handle the tech, handle these situations when a lot is being requested of us these days. Laya: So much, you know. Gone are the days of just stepping into the studio and all you have to do is focus on your acting -- Anne: Remember that? Laya: -- the copy and what it feels like to deliver, you know, the message. Now you have to have all the hats on -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- simultaneously while keeping your cool and still delivering an outstanding performance. And it is harder than we realize -- Anne: Oh my gosh -- Laya: -- especially when the going gets tough. Anne: Yeah. And shout-out, okay, before anything else, a big shout-out to all the studios out there -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- and pre-pandemic too. Like I always appreciated studios and sometimes even more so now, you never realized what a luxury it is to walk into a studio and to be directed. Laya: Yes, I miss it. Anne: Right? It is a wonderful thing. And I think there's always a place for studios, but during the pandemic, when we had to kind of up our game and get our tech in place and be able to engineer and do all that, oh, that was tough. So thank you to all of those studios. Some of my favorite studios shut down, and it's so sad, and I hope that they, you know, we're now coming back to a different place. I'm so glad when I see people in studios, and they're like, oh my gosh, I'm so happy to be back in studio, seeing people, so. Laya: Well, and it's true because even the engineers -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- like I have great respect for these engineers and the sound designers that are manning the board and the client in one ear. Anne: Yup. Laya: And they've got another client patched in from somewhere else. And they have really been the lead for all these years -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- to really help craft a comfortable setting for -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- so many of us that are dealing with our own insecurities or -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- our own demands or our own needs that are happening on every angle of the table or the studio. And so I have a whole new respect having really had to shift that in house, but now it's, you know, it's a new skill learned, and I really haven't seen anywhere where you can learn the art of how to be your own BOSS in the booth -- Anne: Right? Laya: -- so this should be an interesting conversation. Anne: Well, I think, first of all, you have to educate yourself on some of these technologies that are -- Laya: Yep. Anne: -- that may be required of you. So number one, first of all, you've got to connect to a studio if you're doing a live direct, right? Or you have to be able to connect a client to be able to hear you. And so -- Laya: Yeah, your studio, right? Anne: Yeah. There are a lot of ways to do that. I know that prior to the pandemic, we were doing, a lot of people were doing stuff via Skype, and then Zoom kind of became a thing. I've had people connect via Zoom. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And I'm going to give a shout-out to, you know, our sponsor ipDTL, because I've always been able to connect other people to me via ipDTL and a very easy -- Laya: Yeah, flawlessly. Anne: Flawlessly, seamlessly, in a wonderful -- and the cool thing is, is that I even have a phone number, like my ipDTL, somebody can call a phone number and connect up with me via ipDTL. So on the other end, if you've got a client who's not technical -- Laya: Yep. Anne: -- at the very least, just give them a phone number and they can connect. Laya: Always. Anne: Now -- Laya: That's awesome. I didn't realize that about them. Good share, for sure. Anne: Yeah. Laya: For sure. Anne: But even before that, if you want to get even more elementary, right -- Laya: Of course. Anne: -- I used to have people connect to me in the studio by having my phone and earbuds. And so I'd have them call my cell phone, put my earbuds in my ear, and then my headphones over, right, my ears. Laya: Oh wow. Anne: And they would be in my ear. And it was like before you had to do a complicated -- there were people that would talk about having complicated phone patch in to your studio. And then thank goodness for cell phones with earbuds. Laya: Right. We still call it phone patch -- Anne: Right? Laya: -- but it's like, we're actually, we've upped the tech a little bit. Right? Anne: Yup. Laya: It's not necessarily a phone, but yeah, you're right. There's so many clients and partners out there that need to pass it on to somebody that isn't used to this program, you know, is used to just going into a studio and letting somebody else handle it. So you gotta make it easy for them with something as simple as a phone number -- Anne: Yeah. Exactly. Laya: -- or a Zoom link or something that they're used to. You got to meet them where they are. Anne: Yeah. I think that's your client non-technical person that needs to be able to hear what you're doing with their copy -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- is a phone patch, the cell phone number, the Zoom connection, Skype connection. And that's just something that you want to make sure that as a talent, when they are connected, they are either muted when you are obviously voicing the copy or, you know, you are muting them so that you're not getting the feedback. Or even if they're in your ear, you don't want that to bleed through. So -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- make sure that you have a good mute system or you know how to mute clients when you are speaking the copy. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And that I would say the very elemental client connect to us in our studio, those are some viable methods. Now what about connecting to studios? We have a couple of different options here. Laya: Yeah, we do. And I even want to go back a step if, if that's all right with you, Anne. Anne: Sure. Laya: Because I found that more and more of my clients who are used to into a studio may not be used to connecting now virtually with a studio. And so they're just coming straight to me as the voice talent saying like, how do we get this done? And so I offer a few solutions, right? I say, you know, um, I have multiple connectivity options. You can connect with me via the digital methods, which would be Skype, Google Hangouts, Zoom -- funny story as a side, I offered just to Zoom and Skype to a client that works with Google. And so they were like -- Anne: Oh wow. Laya: -- oh no, we do Google Hangouts. And I was like, oh yeah, of course -- Anne: Got to offer that. Laya: That's now, don't want to offend Google. So of course that's in the mix or phone patch, you know, I say, if you've got a conference line -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- but right from the jump I say, you know, or I would prefer to connect with a studio of your choice, or I can recommend one for SourceConnect or ipDTL -- Anne: ipDTL. Laya: -- or anything like that that makes it easy on them. So I first put it in their court when approached with it, because I do find that so many times, they're like, uh, how do we do this? You know, at least that was the case in the very beginning. Anne: Well, I want to add to that list, in addition to your visual hangouts, if they just need an audio hangout, there's also Bodalgo Call. There's also -- Laya: Yes. Anne: Right? That they can just connect up audibly. And by the way, I had some international clients that Zoom did not work. And so they had to use Skype. And that was the only thing that -- Laya: Skype is another one, yeah. Anne: -- will work. Really depends on certain protocols, I know, of security. Laya: Yep. Anne: And so one was Skype. Another person could only connect via Zoom. The other, if it's audio only, it could be, but Bodalgo Call. There's also Open Connection. I'm trying to think what else is -- I think now, um, I'm just trying to think. There is a new capability of I -- maybe it's Mac iOS that you can connect an audio call. I'm gosh, I'm now, I'm going to, I'm going to go crazy trying to think of it. But anyways, there are those other options where if you just need an audio connection where they listen in, you can offer that, where they don't have to dial a number, but they can join in via computer. Laya: Yes. Anne: And there's audio options for any of these. Laya: Oh for sure there is. Anne: Yeah. So obviously if you don't have to have video, which I recommend, to be honest with you. I don't know if I really want people that in my booth, you know, when I'm performing -- Laya: I agree with you. Anne: -- like you don't have to look at me. Laya: I agree with you. In fact, I want to touch on that a little bit, because in addition to that, like I hear Zoom and I'm like, oh my gosh, I got to like, look presentable. Anne: Gotta do my hair. Laya: But a couple of key points there for me have been, well first, I'll ask them what their preferred connectivity, but I'll asterisk with, if you find that playback during our session is going to be essential -- Anne: Oh yes. Laya: -- for decision-making with your client -- some clients are just like, no, just send me -- I just want to listen in. And they're very low hassle, I don't know. Anne: Yep. Laya: They're easy to deal with. And so that you've worked with them in the past. It's no big deal. They just want to listen in. And sometimes they've got a lot of people on the line, and a lot of personalities and they definitely want playback. And I said, well, hey, unless we're connecting to a studio, which can absolutely engineer that -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- the only way that my capabilities are going to allow playback are through Zoom. I haven't found any other playback capabilities, albeit I haven't looked very hard, but I'm like you, have an Apollo. I use Adobe Audition. And I have found that the only thing I can do playback on is through Zoom, if they're not using SourceConnect, of course. What are your options? Have you found any? Anne: So that's really interesting because I have an Apollo, and I use Twisted Wave. So my Apollo acts as a virtual audio output device -- Laya: Interesting. Anne: -- because I can play it within Twisted Wave, and they'll be able to hear it, which is something I didn't have until I got the Apollo. Other interfaces, they did not act as that. There's some software that you can load on your computer that can act as a virtual audio output device, like Sound Flower. The other thing too, if I need to play back for a client or a studio, I use ipDTL, which allows me to -- Laya: Right, perfect. Anne: -- play it back. But it's always like, oh, can we get playback? And I'm like, all right, but it's the raw audio. Laya: Yeah, I haven't cleaned it. Anne: I haven't edited anything out. But that's my paranoid, non-engineer, you know -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- going, oh my God, all right, I can play it back, but you're going to hear that mouth or something. Laya: And those curveballs can really throw you off your performance games. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: So it's important to know all these avenues. And I'm so glad you pointed out those playback options. It might just be in my lack of knowledge or education -- Anne: ipDTL. Laya: -- on the matter. So I'm going to look that up, but yeah, of course. So I'm going to offer that. They're my partner now too. Anne: But if I had my choice, if I had my choice, if I am on the line with a studio, and I'm connected via ipDTL, SourceConnect, Connection Open, and I think there's another high quality audio connection option out there right now. Forgive me that I can't think of it right now, but ipDTL and SourceConnect are the two big ones, but I -- Laya: And SessionLink, I think I've done -- Anne: Oh, SessionLink. Laya: Yep. Anne: That's it. That's the one I was thinking of. So those are options when you want to connect up to a studio, and when that happens, I love it because the studio engineer can typically do the playback. Laya: Same, same. Anne: Yeah. Laya: I'm like, yes, I can finally just focus on me -- Anne: Being an actor. Laya: Yes. Uh, I wish buyers knew what a better performance they probably get -- Anne: Right? Laya: -- and a smoother transition when they get, when you're dealing with a studio and an engineer. It really does take the pressure off. So let's talk about what happens when it doesn't go so well. Anne: You're flustered. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So number one, I'm going to say this, just from experience and just from a tech experience as well. Not just voice over, but being, being a techhead for 20 years, always have a backup plan -- Laya: Always. Anne: -- because things can fail. Connections can fail. I've been noticing recently there's been some conversations about one of the providers not working so well. I've had my days where, you know, things just happen. Like ipDTL is slow or weird or something doesn't connect, or SourceConnect, right? It's just not working the way -- maybe SourceConnect Now. Oh, that's the other one, by the way, they can do playback, probably, SourceConnect Now. Laya: Okay. Anne: So those things, what do you do if one thing doesn't work? You always have to have your backup. And you know, in the heat of the moment when the client is there, and you don't know when you can reschedule that session, you certainly don't want your interface failing. You don't want your Internet network to fail. So if you can have backup points all along the way, meaning what if your microphone, I don't know. All of a sudden your microphone like dies, right? Do you have another microphone? Can you swap it out quickly? Do you have another audio interface? Do you have another network, Internet network, like a backup Internet connection? Those are things that I think as a professional, you need to have those in place. So that during an important session, usually when it's a live directed session, I'm going to say it's probably a pretty important, not that our self-directed sessions aren't important, but when it's a live directed session, there's that added pressure. You've got the client usually on the line or the studio on the line that you're trying to make a good impression. Like, hey, I got this. And you certainly don't want to seem any less than professional or prepared -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- when something bad might happen. So that's my first, my first advice. Laya: I can't agree with you more. And let me just share from experience. Anne: Yes. Laya: First of all, it happens to all of us -- Anne: It does. Laya: -- and we're all human. So just admitting calmly and in control to whoever may be affected -- Anne: Calmly. Laya: -- you know, we're having an issue -- exactly. Oh my God, freaking out, is not the way to go with your clients. But if you can admit, hey, you know what, I'm experiencing something that's unusual right now. Give me just a few minutes. And if we can break for five, I'll get right back to you. Sometimes -- Anne: You are like the epitome of calm. I'm just saying, like the way you just said that, I just love it. I'm not quite sure I could say it so coolly, but you just -- that was awesome. Laya: You know, just give me a moment. Anne: Just a moment. Laya: Get your meditation voice on. No, so to me, I've actually had this happen on two occasions where the power surge has gone out, like a brown-out in the middle of the afternoon for no reason. There's not even -- it's like a rolling blackouts. You know, sometimes, city's done -- that has happened to me once before. And let me tell you, I had a plan and I had a backup. Now I wasn't able to use the Apollo because that's powered, but I have -- Sound Devices has another DAW system that I use. And I was able to use -- my power was backed up -- Anne: Nice. Laya: -- and flipped on a candle. And I was able to conduct a session -- Anne: Careful in the booth with that candle. Laya: Exactly. Right, right. Having a power outage. Anne: Yeah. Laya: I mean, something as crazy as that. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And of course everyone understands, but you know, they may have a lot riding on the session as well, under deadline, with a new client and what have you. So you got to have a backup. Anne: Can I just say that absolutely the power is super important, and you may not even realize until you're live, right, and with a client, your Internet connection failing -- Laya: Yes. Yep. Anne: -- or especially when you're connected wifi. And if you're connected directly to a studio or to a client, it really does help to have that dependable, reliable Internet connection that doesn't have dropouts. Laya: Yep. Anne: And wifi, I'm sorry, guys. I know wifi is convenient and easy and not a lot of people are necessarily technical or know, but it helps to be directly connected -- Laya: Definitely. Anne: -- to your router, to your Internet at all possible costs because that is going to be one less point of failure. So. Laya: Yep, hard-wired in is the way to go for sure. As soon as you can, uh, establish that connection with your studio or with your home Internet, and even upgrade to a business Internet system where you've got more bandwidth, hopefully you, you know, maybe even got fiber in your area. Anne: Sure, yeah. Laya: That's just some key stuff. And that way you can use, if -- as your backup can be your wifi hotspot on your cell phone, if need be. That's happened to me before as well. Anne: Oh yeah, that's always my second. My second Internet connection is my wifi hotspot, which is great to have that Internet connection. Now, what about, okay, mentally, right? Technically, look, you just have to be prepared with backups, and you have to understand hopefully enough to know how to disconnect, reconnect. I always, by the way, if I'm going to finish up on the technical aspect of being prepared, take a picture of your connections into your DAW and you know what I mean? And, and into, into the whole booth, right? Your monitor's connected this way, your microphones are connected here into your audio device. And so take pictures of the back of it -- Laya: Great tip. Anne: -- label your cables and -- Laya: Oh, label my cables, that's absolutely key. Anne: Label your cables. Laya: Label the cable should be like hashtag. Anne: Label the cables. Laya: I love it. Anne: And also, well, computer backup too doesn't it hurt. So always have that second. And I use my travel rig as my backup, right? So I have a laptop, and I've got a different interface, and I've got another microphone at the ready pretty much so that I can go there. And, but if you don't, make sure that you're taking pictures of how things are connected. 'Cause even me being a technical person, you know, in the heat of the moment, you want to make sure that you can react quickly. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So now mentally, I had an experience where I had a live directed session with a very large client. One of the clients that -- a client I've always -- a dream client that I've always wanted to be connected to. And I actually experienced an engineer who was trying to, I don't even know how to say it, was trying to impress the client in his own way and made me do like, I'm going to say, three takes of every single line of a fairly large medical narration project. And it became very stressful for me because every single -- and I didn't know, he had planned on doing three takes of every line, and this what should have been an hour session turned into three and a half hours. And by the time that was done, I was exhausted. And mentally I was really frustrated, and it was starting to affect my performance. So -- Laya: Absolutely. Anne: -- mentally you need to be prepared for that kind of a pressure. And sometimes I say, it's good to have a practice session with somebody. If you've got a close connection, even a voiceover talent that you are -- have an accountability group or something, do some test sessions and have things go wrong, and see how you can react. It does help at least the preparedness or feeling better, because mentally, if your performance is suffering, that's tough. What are your -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- do you have some suggestions, Laya -- Laya: Oh gosh, sure. Anne: -- for mental, you know, how to recover mentally? Laya: Yeah. Well, sure, and again, that happens to everybody also, right? Anne: Yeah. Laya: Even the pros of the pros, the top people -- Anne: Yep. Laya: -- there's always sometimes just somebody in the group that's either trying to establish themselves -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- because they're posturing for whatever reason is going on for them, maybe they haven't had the best day, or they're trying to prove themselves -- Anne: Exactly. Laya: -- in the room. And you know what? You just have to remember, you're the hired gun. Anne: Yep. Laya: You're the hired -- you, you're just there to listen and just take orders -- Anne: Yep. Laya: -- and leave your ego at the door -- Anne: Exactly. Laya: -- and just try to serve them and the copy and the client to the best of your ability. But I have been in that situation several times before, and it really doesn't come down to -- if you can remember, it really is not about your performance. Sometimes it's easy to recognize these people sometimes in a session. Anne: Yep, yep. Laya: You know, first sometimes even taking a step back, there's a lot of people coming at you. And so when I'm in a self-directed session or not a self-directed, but when I'm engineering the session myself, and I'm not connected to a studio, and if I am, sometimes there's a lot of cooks in the kitchen, and there's a lot of people coming at you with all different opinions. Anne: Sure. Laya: And sometimes I'll listen to them all. If it calms down, you know, maybe it's bubbling up for a minute or two -- if it calms down, I'm able to get the focus again. I usually come back and say, okay, so-and-so, so tell me, this is how I thought I heard that. This is my translation of that. But to keep it super clear, moving forward, do you think I can get that direction from just one person? And sometimes it's a reframe, and that sets a neutral tone -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- for all the personalities that are on the phone. Right? Anne: Yeah. Laya: And so, because that can mess with you mentally as well. Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: And so I think establishing that and like re-getting control of the session, that can help when all those personalities are chiming it, or they're asking for multiple retakes, and you're just, you're like, well, but I'm doing it. You know? You start to second guess yourself. Anne: That's the thing that's such an -- I'm glad you brought that up because it's so important when they're asking for a different take. And sometimes the people that are asking for it, they don't know how to ask for it. Laya: Yep. They don't know the language to use. Anne: They don't know the language. Laya: Right? Anne: And hey, sometimes even people that do know the language don't know how to ask for that. And so you have to be very aware that this is something that will happen to you. And at one point, if they're asking you for so many retakes, then your confidence level starts to really fluctuate. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And I like in my head, I'm like, oh my God, did I not give them what they want? Well, I just gave them that. What, how did that not work? Really? And so that sort of conversation that you have in your head, that can really start to affect your performance. My go-to is breathing, just breathe, you know, in through the nose and exhale. I just heard my nose [phonetic]. Laya: Yeah. Anne: Breathing in deeply. And that helps a lot. Laya: Even on top of that shaking, like sometimes it's okay to say, hey, you know what? Anne: I need a minute. Laya: I needed just a moment. If you can take a break for just a few minutes, let me shake it off real quick -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and come right back to you with a fresh set of ears on my own, you know, in my own headphones. Anne: Yup. Laya: And maybe that will help. Anne: Yeah. Laya: 'Cause I want to make sure that you're getting exactly what you want out of this session. Anne: Exactly. Laya: And as long as you continue to put it back on them, but are humble and human enough to say, you know what? I just need a moment. Um, let me get some water, step out for just a second. And I'll be right back with you. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And sometimes that's enough to break up even them in their own headspace. Maybe they didn't even realize that's like a good way to send a signal. Like, you're overdoing it. Anne: Yup. Laya: And the talent needs to regroup. And that's a very professional thing to do. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And it's totally acceptable. Anne: And sometimes, sometimes they'll either say too much or they won't say anything and you'll be like, oh, okay. Or they'll just, you'll do a number of retakes. And then there'll be like, okay. And then you'd be like, oh my God, I didn't give them what they need. That's it. I'm done. They're never hiring me again. That's the other kind of like, self-deprecating language that might happen -- Laya: Oh, for sure. Anne: -- in your head, is like, oh, okay. They didn't react. And so what are they thinking? And so that can make it a little bit scary -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- in your head. So just, you know, for me, I love how, you know, let's take a moment. That always helps me and the breathing, and understand that sometimes you may be giving them exactly what they need, and they're just not responding. Laya: Yeah. Maybe they're distracted. They're something else. Anne: That's right. Laya: They're scrolling on their phone or another email's come through. Anne: That's right. Laya: That can be a challenge -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- when you're working virtually like this, you don't know what the other person is experiencing. Anne: Yeah. Laya: I remember one time recently I was on a call with two producers that were partners in two different states, and they clearly did not gel up. They were neck and neck. Anne: Yup. Laya: One of the producers had her kids screaming in the background. So it's in those moments that you have to kind of quickly empathize and identify where the energy source is and the chaos that may be happening for them. Anne: Sure, absolutely. Laya: Bring the calm to the mic and say, you know, what, what I'm hearing from you is this, what I'm hearing from you is this. Would you agree that it's more like this, and you want -- this is the end result here? And then also, like you said, kind of command the room to the best of your ability. You know? Anne: Yeah. Laya: Sometimes it's easy to say, to get the best performance today and I want to deliver what you want, I'm going to need everybody to mute their microphones, and let me get one source of direction or feedback going. And if they don't give it to you, like you're saying, say, okay, so can I get some feedback? You're welcome to ask the questions. And I think sometimes we forget that we can take control of those sessions. Anne: Yeah. Laya: It's one of the most empowering things to feel when you finally feel confident enough to do so. Anne: And the other thing too is just to know that these things do happen, right? It's so hard to predict what can happen in the booth when you have multiple people, what kind of like -- did you mention -- what kind of day they're having, too many people like that are hearing it differently than their head. Remember that we all hear the copy differently in our heads. The best thing you need to do is try to align that sound to what the client wants, right? And that client can differ. You could have a, I don't know, you could have a one, a marketing director or the, that hears it one way. And you could have a producer that hears it a different way. And as you mentioned, the two are clashing, and they might be at the same time directing you or even not. Let's say you've done the session. And then they come back and ask you for something different. So understand that that's absolutely something that can happen. And it has nothing to do with your performance. Laya: Right. Anne: And you could have given them exactly what they asked for. And a lot of times, I say this all the time, the way that you got the job is not always the way that you'll be directed to do the job once called upon to do it. Laya: So much so. Anne: Right? Laya: Right? That happens all the time. Anne: Because you have a different director, you have a different set of ears, and you have somebody that hears it differently directing you. So it is always very subjective to the person that is directing. And also, I'm just going to say, if you get the check, that's it. Consider it an amazing day. Laya: Yep. Anne: Consider you've given the client what they've wanted. It may not be what you agree or think is the way it should be. Right? But you've given the client what they wanted. And that's the most important thing. Laya: Yeah. And I would say that the -- in the end, no matter how the session goes, I always like to close with a big thank you. Thank you. I -- first of all -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- I write, and I forgot to say this in the very beginning, but I've always got a notepad with me. As people are making their introductions, I always write down everyone's name so that I -- Anne: Good idea. Laya: -- call of them by name throughout the session, to the best of my ability I can call the director or the producer, whoever's calling the shots by their name, repeat their names again and again so they know that you're very focused on who you're dealing with, even though you're not in the same space. Anne: Sure. Laya: And then at the end close by being, you know, thank you very much for having me. I'm so proud that you selected me for this project. I really hope to have the opportunity to work with you again in the future. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: Good luck on your project and thanks again. Anne: And bam. Laya: And then I think the engineer, if there is one and, you know, wrap it in a nice bow -- Anne: Yep, yep. Laya: -- so they know no matter what, you left with a big smile -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- and very grateful for their time -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- and for selecting you. And then, you know, maybe they'll remember, you know, it, wasn't just an awkward, like, okay, thanks. Thanks, guys. Bye. Anne: Yeah. End it professionally gracefully, and you know, again, it's one of those things, then don't stay too long either at the very end. Laya: No, yeah. Anne: Don't expect -- there should be nothing, except thank you. It was a pleasure working with you and good luck with the project. They do not owe you anything else. They don't owe you praise. They don't owe you, hey, well, you know, we'll contact you for the next job. They owe you nothing -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- because that is a job. And ultimately, if you've done it to their satisfaction, you'll get paid for it. And so don't be, don't be emotionally affected by any of it at the end. Just close it warmly with a nice little bow. I like that. Wrap it up with a bow and onto the next one. Laya: Yep. And I would say the other thing, and I've -- I made this mistake early on. I realized very quickly it was inappropriate, but the end of the session is not a good time to say, hey, I'd love a copy of that spot when you're done. Anne: Yeah. Oh gosh. Yes, yes, exactly. Laya: Unless you really know the person -- Anne: Good point. Laya: -- or like, it's just, you one-on-one, I'd love to see what you come up with. You know, when this is thing is done. Anne: Yep. Laya: If it's not that easy and comfortable, that is not the time to be asking for anything. Just bow out gracefully. Anne: I totally agree with you right there. Totally. That makes you look a little bit, I don't know, desperate, maybe? Laya: Hungry. Yeah, a little hungry. Anne: And I would say it's a good opportunity for you maybe a month or two down the road when you know the spot's been released to maybe reconnect and then say, hey, thanks so much. Just wanted to say it was a wonderful opportunity. And by the way, if, at that point, if, hey, if you wouldn't mind, is there a way that I might be able to see the finished product? I love it when engineers and producers send me the -- that's the best when they send it to me when it's done. And I'm like, oh my God, like too few people do that. Laya: Yeah. I wish they knew how valuable that was, that currency is. Anne: Yeah. Laya: You know? Anne: I have a couple of really awesome producers that I work with who will just send me the spot, like on, I don't have to ask for it. They send me the spot when it's done. And I'm like, oh, this is so awesome. So that gives you that permission to share it. And just, it's just a good thing to see your finished product. But -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- yeah. Laya: And I would like to mention too, that part of that follow-up process, only when appropriate -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- but it helps to write down those names because a -- Anne: Sure. Laya; -- few weeks later, or even a few days later, in some instances -- you got to feel it out and trust your gut -- if it was appropriate for you to make contact, meaning your agent didn't book that for you -- Anne: Right. Laya: -- and there's not a middleman or anything like that -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- having their name or their studio affiliation, it'll at least allow you to find them or follow their studio on Instagram. Sometimes we are given the name of the studio or their production company that's working with it or the agency that's creating the piece -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- not necessarily the client. Great time to make a followup connection, be it LinkedIn, Instagram, YouTube, and follow their work, continue to champion them and cheer them on. Anne: Yes. Laya: Or just drop them a line on LinkedIn and say, hey, I had a great session with you last week. Just wanted to say and take care of yourself. Hope all is well. Anne: Yes. Laya: I look forward to keeping an eye on your creative output, you know, in the months to come or something like that. It's a great way to follow that up too. Anne: Excellent point about if you get this work through an agent, and I just want to reiterate this, if you get work through your agent, I strongly recommend reconnecting with your agent first, before. Laya: Yes. Anne: Like don't connect the client directly -- Laya: No. Anne: -- connect to the client directly after the job or at any point, really, if it came through your agent, because that's a relationship that that agent has worked probably for a number of days, months, years, whatever, to connect and to secure. And you don't want to just kind of go in between that. So handle that professionally. Always go through your agent if the agent is the one that set that up for, if you have any questions or if you want to connect or say, do you think it would be okay if I sent them a thank you or ask for a copy of it? So excellent point. Wow. It was a great discussion today, Laya. Laya: Yeah, love these BOSSes in the booth. Anne: BOSSes in the booth. Laya: I know our listeners are going to be able to take control of those situations -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- because all of them can crop up. But in this day, this modern times, you really need to wear multiple hats -- Anne: That's right. Laya: -- in the booth. And that comes down to client relations, to engineering, to tack -- Anne: Yep. Laya: -- to being your actor, your best performance self, all those things with eloquence and grace, and then you'll win. Anne: There you go. Laya: You know, you'll be the BOSS in the booth. Anne: Modern BOSSes in the booth. All right, I'm going to give a great, big shout-out to my modern connectivity -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- through ipDTL, our sponsor. We love them. Thank you so much, ipDTL, for always connecting me with BOSSes like Laya. You too can be a BOSS connected ipDTL person. Find out more at ipdtl.com. All right, guys, have an amazing week. Laya: Thanks, everybody. Anne: We'll see you next week. Bye. Laya: Bye-bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Think you need an agent to master the casting game? Think again. Anne and Laya teach you how to make the most of your VO business by building relationships that will land bookings and get you paid. They discuss pay-2-play strategies, symbiotic agent-talent relationships, reaching out to production houses, and how cultivating your SEO can get you jobs without auditioning... Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, along with my special, special guest cohost Laya Hoffman. Laya -- Laya: Hey. Anne: -- how are you? Laya: Anne, I'm doing awesome. How are you? Anne: You know, Laya, I'm awesome. And I just love, love, love doing these podcast episodes with you. Laya: Yes, same here. I've learned so much. I feel like -- Anne: Me too. Laya: -- we've shared so much, and the feedback we've been getting from your BOSSes has been incredible. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: So thank you, BOSSes, for leaning in and coming back to us with your takeaways and your modern mindsets. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: Because the whole thing has come full circle. I feel so rewarded and so grateful for this. Anne: That's right. Well, Laya and I have really been enjoying our topics of late. And I think they're very relevant. They're very relevant in terms of BOSSes wanting growth mindset for growing their businesses, growing themselves personally, growing their performances. So now let's talk about once we've been growing our skills and our assets, how are we going to get work? Laya: Yes. Anne: Let's talk about how do we get cast in these roles? How do we win these gigs? There's all sorts of wonderful things to talk about with that agents, production, houses, managers pay-to-plays, all of these things. Maybe we should just, let's have a discussion on how are we going to be getting work. Laya: Yes, it's such a good one to have, because I think if you're just now coming up in the industry, you feel like, oh, I, the first thing I got to do is I got to get an agent. That was my misconception in the very beginning, to be honest. And you know, once you've been around a little while, you realize that's nowhere near your first step. In fact, doing the work and training and getting yourself conditioned is by far the first step. And then you slowly build on that as we have talked about, and you know very well with your asset library, your image, your brand, so that when you are fully ready, and I mean fully ready, meaning you're booking and you're making money and you can present yourself as a resource, then you're going to maybe approach agents or managers. But until then, there's a lot of work to do. And there's definitely outlets to go get that work. Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: So let's talk about it. Lead us in. Anne: Well, yeah. I am going to agree with you that yes, I, in the beginning I thought, oh, I need an agent right away. And that is absolutely not necessarily true at all. As a matter of fact, you have to usually prove that you've gotten some work under your belt before an agent will consider you. Laya: Absolutely. Anne: But I remember thinking, okay, so I got my demo. Now I need an agent. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So a lot of times that is something that can be put on the back burner until you, you know, assert yourself, go out there and get some work. But until you do that, you got to get that work. So how are you going to do that? Laya: Yeah. Anne: And by the way, I'll tell you that I was working full-time for years before I got my first agent. So. Laya: Yes. And I was working in the same space. You know, I was definitely making money in voice work. And I thought the agent thing was going to tip me over the balance. And that's when I knew I was going to be successful. When the reality is I book very little work through my main agents, or at least I did in the very beginning. And so you lose sight of that when you're not quite there, you feel like maybe that's going to be the cash out or the pinnacle, or that's where you want to achieve. But there's a lot of work to glean without an agent too. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: And I think that's kind of where the paradigm or the shift is in the industry right now. And while a lot of the cream, you know, at the top goes to the agents or the managers, there's lots of great work out there that you can get by cultivating relationships with clients, putting yourselves out there, marketing, you know, dipping into pay-to-plays, if that's your thing. So let's dig in. Anne: So, I will say that when I started, and this is back in the day, pay-to-plays were not the same 'cause I've been in the industry for a few years now. So back when pay-to-plays first started, and I believe it was Voice123 that was the very first one, if I can remember correctly. Before that, there was kind of like freelancer.com where people would post jobs. But I think the very first pay-to-play was Voice123, which I hopped on. I was on board when they came on board, and it was actually something that was successful for me. And -- but the landscape of the pay-to-plays has changed quite a bit over the years, but that was my main source, that and other like freelance websites to get my first jobs. And as I kind of struggled and, you know, found my way through the industry, the pay-to-plays started to become a place where I could actually get clients that would become return clients. And that was super helpful to me. So I think these days, it's probably important that maybe you can dabble in the pay-to-plays, see if they work for you. Sometimes, you know, they're so congested right now that I feel that it's really that much more difficult to get work from them. However, some people are very successful at it, depending I think on the level that you're paying for. I don't think it's always necessary to get work just through the pay-to-plays, but I feel like it might be very frustrating for people just starting in the industry. Laya: Yeah. Anne: What about you? What do you think? Laya: Well, I've got a lot of information to glean on this because as we've talked about before, you know, I was, I've been doing voice work for over 20 years, but never full-time and never really taking it "seriously" until I went full-time about three years ago and ripped the band-aid off. And so my start was non-traditional in the sense that, you know, I didn't spend this long amount of time cultivating anything with training and whatnot. And so I have been a Voice123 member since 2009, I think, but I didn't optimize a profile or anything like that. I did however, dive right in and get a membership when I first went official full-time a couple of years ago, and I used it as an -- I hate to say it like this now, but it's true -- I kind of used it as a practice tool. I would never recommend that. So I can't believe I'm admitting it, but in all, you know, full disclosure, like, I didn't know what different scripts were out there. I didn't know how to play in different genres or where my voice sat best. I didn't really have an understanding. So to me, a lot of people say, don't do that because you're putting your name out there. You never know who you're going to come across, and they're going to be like, oh gosh, no, the audio is terrible, whatever. I did it because I needed to know for myself what felt right. And in doing that, it kind of opened up a lot of opportunities, a lot of ideas and a lot of awareness about myself. So for me, I probably didn't take the traditional route. And I know we could, we're going to dive into a full, deep scope of pay-to-plays at one point. Anne: We will. Laya: Today might not be the day, but just to touch on that, it is an okay place to start if you just want to see what's out there and what kind of jobs are being offered -- Anne: Right, right, agreed. Laya: -- and what kind of scripts and maybe what kind of budgets are out there. So. Anne: Well, let me admit something -- Laya: Please. Anne: -- Laya. Laya: I'm leaning in. Anne: I used it as a practice ground too. Laya: See, I'm not alone. Anne: Back in the -- see. So back in the day, like it's very true what you just said. So if you've not been in the voiceover industry, it's really hard to know like what kind of jobs are out there? What does a typical script look like? If there is such a thing. Laya: What does usage look like? Like what are they saying about it? Anne: Exactly. Laya: What's the language? Anne: What do I even, where do I even begin? Laya: Right. Anne: And so in reality it was, for me, it was a good education. Now I was also fortunate enough to book back in the day, because again, it wasn't as congested. And I also used it to kind of, oh, and I will admit this to kind of, 'cause there was no middleman back in the day -- Laya: Yeah, right. Anne: -- I was able to kind of scope it for companies that were hiring. And so I knew if there was a company that put out an audition for a corporate job or a telephony job, I would write that company name down and be on my list of things to kind of investigate. And a few months later I'd kind of put that company on my list of maybe people to contact later on. Laya: Yeah. Anne: But it really was a -- and there was no, there was nothing bad about doing that by the way. But I believe that's why there are some restrictions now on certain pay-to-plays where you can't communicate with your potential client, which, I don't think is right, to be honest with you. Laya: No. Anne: I think that they shouldn't be able to communicate so that you can get the job done. And the quality of the job is what's important. Laya: And there are some work arounds, but we'll dive into that. Anne: But that's what I'll say right now about pay-to-plays. Laya: Yeah, yeah. Anne: So I don't think it's the horrible taboo. I think that it's a very valid reason so that you kind of understand, like what does the work look like out here in the voiceover industry? So let's talk about, we kind of dabbled just a little bit with agents. And like I said, it took me four years to get an agent. So I had gotten some work under my belt. At that time I felt comfortable submitting for agents. Remember this is, you know, 10, 10 or so years ago, and now -- Laya: It's very much, it did change. Anne: It has changed now. Laya: Like super aggressive. Right? Anne: Now you really kind of need to have a referral -- Laya: Definitely. Anne: -- to get yourself your agent and to get yourself into there. So at the time I was able to submit, but then I grew into having other people that also had that agent. I would talk to them about it. And I would, then I would just basically ask if I could refer their name and say that so-and-so told me about your agency. And I'm really excited. I really think your agency is amazing, and I'm hoping that I might be a fit for you. Laya: Right. Anne: And so that was just one way to kind of use that, that networking relationship to my advantage. Laya: I did something similar as well. Um, I was working with engineers that I admired and had a great symbiotic relationship with, and they made recommendations to agents that they traditionally cast with. So I was lucky in that sense. And then I did do some cold kind of call reach outs, email contact to some other agents that I knew that were very reputable, that were in regional markets that may have something interesting to offer, and that I could be a resource to them, of course, doing my research first, making sure there was a fit on their roster that I could fill with a unique approach or sound or skill set. And that's kind of hard to do, but also in a way it's kind of transparent. A lot of agents, uh, have their entire rosters up. And so not only do you want to make sure that you're a good fit and you're going to be a great resource for them, but that they're a great fit for you. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: You want that agent to be excited about you because unfortunately there is such a saturation right now. Maybe it's been like this a while, but with talent and with agents, and because of pay-to-plays, the opportunities have gotten spread thin. Anne: Very, very. Laya: So you, you know, where I cast this huge net at first and had lots of regional agents and was looking to have my hand in a little bit of everything, I found very quickly that that spread me thin as well. And as the auditions were overlapping, I would start to panic. Who do I give this to? You know? And then that created lack of trust and didn't create a solid foundation or relationship with those agents, because I was just sporadically submitting. And so that's a whole other thing to consider too. Anne: That's a, that's an excellent point. I will say that in the height of my getting agents, I landed myself 11 of them. And over the years, right, those agents, like you said, sometimes, I mean the workplace and the environment, has really just changed so much, even in just the last couple of years, that the work is even getting spread thin. So sometimes you will see some of the same auditions. And I realized just as you mentioned, I realized from my own self, I didn't have the time to respond to all of the agent auditions. And so I found myself kind of gravitating towards just a couple of them that I consider to be my home base and agents that, you know, we worked well together. So there's something to be said that it's not just a one-way relationship. Laya: Oh, no. Anne: It really is a two-way relationship with you and your agents, so fine tuning that and honing in on those agents, that works well for both of you, I think that's very, very important in order to really maximize your casting opportunities. Laya: For, sure. I mean, if you're a talent on a roster with 3, 4, 600 other talents, and I feel like some times there're, you know, talents getting gobbled up and it's, it's more of a numbers game for the agent and verse -- and vice versa for the talent. Um, and when the reality is just like our friendships and our personal relationships, if you can nurture them and stay true and be loyal and be consistent, they're going to know that, see that, respect that in return. And you're going to be more top of mind to that agent. Whereas if you're just sporadically hitting -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- you know, alternating between them, because you're trying to really widen your net, it's actually going to water you down, and that's going to water your name, your brand, and your voice down and the opportunities. So I also streamlined this past year in order to be fair to them in my partnership and my word and myself. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: So that's very important and something to consider. Anne: And so agents, I think, for a lot of people, you have to really step back and understand your agent and their specialty. Every agent has a specialty. A lot of agents will work in the commercial broadcast around, but then there are other agents who do radio imaging. There's other agents that do animation and then other agents that specialize in promo. So knowing your agent and their specialties and what type of work you are going for or looking for, trying to get, that's important, because almost as important for me, for my genres that I book work in is not just the agents, but also casting, right? Laya: Yeah. Anne: Casting agencies, production houses, being on the roster on production houses and maintaining a great relationship with those people has gotten me repeat work over and over and over again. Laya: Absolutely. Anne: And I cannot stress the importance of the connection that you have with production houses and the relationship because they're submitting for you. It's almost like having an agent, right, that doesn't necessarily send out an audition, but they have clients who come to them and say, hey, I've got a medical narration or an automotive narration or any kind of corporate thing, and this is what I'm looking for. And they're the ones that will be sending out your demos or whatever it is, your past work to kind of promote you to their clients. And then basically I would just get a call that says, hey, are you available next week for this job? Laya: Yeah. Anne: Oh my gosh. That's like the best way to get a job. Hey, are you available? Laya: The best way. Anne: You've been hired already. Laya: No audition needed. Exactly. And I got to say, I'm so glad you spoke about this because production houses are so fundamental. They are -- Anne: Yeah, they are. Laya: You know, sometimes they're using agents. Sometimes they're using managers, but sometimes they've got their own in-house team. Anne: Yup, exactly. Laya: And it's just like everybody's got to make money in this together, yes, they may be selling your voice or the voiceover element of the product at a higher fee, but maybe there's a consistent, flat rate. They tend to make your job much easier because you may not have to audition, or they've already got the engineer built in, or they already know your studio specs, your voice, your sound, et cetera. For instance, I'm an in-house talent on Pandora's and Sirius XM's roster. Shout-out to that whole incredible team -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- of audio slayers over there. Because as I've gotten to know them over the last few years, they know my voice, they just cast you -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- where they know that your voice is going to sit right so they've got the best output and you're going to give them the best output. It's a trust relationship. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: It is so valuable. And while sometimes the rate can be a little bit lower than your standard GVAA, you know, industry rate that you might just be putting out there for usage, the repetition and the ease of work -- Anne: And volume. Laya: -- and the volume is huge. And that should not be overlooked or turned your nose up at. It's again, very, very beneficial for all parties. Anne: I have been on a couple of rosters for over 10 years already. And it's just, there's so much to be said for just, oh, by the way, are you available for this job? Laya: Yes. Anne: And it's the same kind of thing with repeat clients who just come back to you over and over again, where you don't have to audition. I just had, again, I've got work this weekend. I had somebody email me say, and I haven't heard from them in years, but they're like, hey, are you available to do this job? And I'm like, well, hey, yeah, it's great to hear from you again. I love it. And one thing I'll also say outside of the production houses and casting houses is to also, and this is not necessarily a mass casting, but your website and your SEO of your business can also help to cast yourself without an audition. Laya: Sure can. Anne: So I'll get a lot of people who will just send me an email inquiry and say, here's my script. How much will that cost? Laya: Yup. Anne: And the cool thing again is that I don't have to audition for that. So what I love is that type of casting. So. Laya: Yeah, and that happens for me as well, not as often as I would like. I'm sure your SEO is very robust, Anne. Anne: I've been at it for a while. Laya: I have a feeling. Exactly. But that does happen. And I think that, you know, what's really a blessing is that that shows that your work or that your body of work or that your presence is definitely garnering some attention. Now we can dive much deeper in how to make that even more attractive or build the SEO. And that's for another episode -- Anne: Yup, absolutely. Laya: But what's so great is that there are so many different buckets. Anne: Yup. Laya: In addition to those production houses, your own website, pay-to-plays, agents, we can also talk about, a little bit about the manager model, which is not new, certainly not in VO or in acting. It's evolved to kind of fit the new VO landscape and how work is coming in. I have enjoyed a recent success, a series of successes with ACM, the team over there, Mark Guss and the whole crew has been incredibly beneficial for me. But that manager model is very different as well. Anne: Yup. Laya: Now, for those that aren't aware where the agent is, usually if you're cast for something union or non-union has usually a different percentage that the agent gets paid. And that varies depending on whether you're union status or not -- Anne: Correct. Laya: -- or whether the casting house, the production company is paying over base, which again, another conversation. Now managers model is where they do acquire 10% or there's a percentage of your entire work picture, whether you book or not. And so that's definitely something to consider for those that are maybe way, you know, into their career or advancing or looking to level up from an agency model or add to their agency model. It's definitely not for everybody. I have had some great success with it, but it's again about nurturing those relationships and making sure you're giving as much as they're receiving and vice versa. Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And in order for the whole relationship to work, it has to be, I want to say, almost 50, 50, right? You have to work with them -- Laya: Absolutely. Anne: -- as much as they have to work with you because you're giving 10% of the entire income that's coming in. I think that they work harder for you in terms of getting you work from various agents that they're working with. Or if they're, I would say clients that they're working with. Laya: Yeah. I will say this. And I, people ask me all the time, how has it been, you know, you shifted and you know, what are you getting out of it? I don't know, it's just a lot, you know, it seems like a big investment, and it is. But I will say this, like in the first month of being with ACM and this may not be the case for everyone, but I had more communication and opportunities and direct one-on-one communication. There's eight managers on my team over there. I had more communication in that one month than I did in three years with nine agents combined. So to me, the value was there, but it was also in part by me putting the effort in and making it a point to connect with everyone and to set meetings and to have that influence in my business because I'm paying for it. Anne: Well -- Laya: It's a mutual investment. Anne: And that's the thing, if you're -- okay. So here, if you look at it from a business standpoint, right? Why the manager model should work, right? If it didn't work, if you were not getting a lot out of your relationship, right, if you weren't getting a lot of opportunities, if you weren't booking, you wouldn't be happy with the management, right? Because you'd be paying, right, for all the work that you did. Laya: You'd demand more. Sure. Anne: That doesn't necessarily look good or sound good for the manager, and the manager, for them to keep their brand, right, and that they're a successful manager, right, they don't want to have an unhappy person. So the relationship, I think, has to be working both ways, and -- Laya: And I think that can happen there. Anne: -- you have to make money for them, they make money for you. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So. Laya: And same goes for the agents. And same goes -- a lot of people say, well, you would pay that. Or would you pay a membership fee on pay-to-plays -- like, everybody's got to make money -- Anne: Right. Laya: -- and can make money in this business. Anne: Exactly. Laya: It just has to become down to what investment is worth your while. Anne: Right. Laya: Is it working with a production house where your overall total fee is lower -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- but you have the volume and the repetition and the ease of work? Or is it investing in a management company where you have opportunities like you've never seen before? Anne: Right. Laya: Or is it an agency model? Anne: Yeah. Laya: I mean, all of those things I think can work for you, as long as you do the work, and you present yourself fully to that partnership and being very aware of everybody's role, and set your expectation too -- Anne: Right, right. Laya: -- as to what they can or cannot do for you. Anne: And just like in any relationship, if it doesn't work for you -- this is including managers, agents, pay-to-plays, even a client -- Laya: Production houses, clients, exactly. Anne: If that relationship does not work for you, then you have the opportunity -- which is what I love. We're entrepreneurs. We are our own business. We can absolutely step away from that, which is -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- what is it, is that, that's the whole beauty of being an entrepreneur, right? We don't have to work -- Laya: Yeah, you're in control. Exactly. Anne: We are in control. We don't have to work with a client that is not necessarily giving us a positive investment, right? Laya: Yeah. Anne: Or is working for us. So that's what the really wonderful thing is. And no matter how you go out there to get your opportunities -- and I think it's always, for me, it's, it can't just be one. Laya: No. Anne: Can't put all your eggs in one basket, right? It's a combination. I have agents, I have production houses. I have relationships with my clients. I have a good SEO on my website. And I have, I'm literally trying to provide myself with the best opportunities in order to be cast so that I can be a successful voiceover business. Laya: Yeah, that's right, Anne. And even if you're -- I would just say this too. I know there's a lot of scrutiny about every one of these avenues, right? And it's really all in how you use it to your advantage, and what your mindset is, and whether or not you're good with where your role is. I would say with pay-to-plays a lot of times, just having a presence on those pay-to-play sites, whether you're active or not, their SEO is going to be far greater than most of our -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- far greater than any of us can most -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- likely invest in our own SEO resources. Anne: Yeah. Laya: So even just to have your name and your demos up -- Anne: A profile. Laya: -- a profile, that in itself, I can't tell you how many opportunities I've gotten by just being on Voices or Voice123, by someone that found -- Anne: Having the profile. Laya: Exactly. Anne: Exactly. Laya: Because that drove me as a talent with a profile on a huge databank where people that are casting are looking for the quick solution. They find somebody they like, then they Google your name. Then they go to your website and they reach out to you. And I have gotten more jobs like that than probably any other avenue combined, to be honest with you. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: And it hasn't even needed to be an audition or fight about usage, et cetera, and these low rates of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. No, just let it work for you and be the driver that you need to get your name and your voice out there. Anne: Right. And however it works for you -- and to be honest with you, I actually -- not even do I have a profile on some of these pay-to-plays that I'm not necessarily active on, but I've also shared blog posts, meaning I have invited them to be a guest blogger on my blog. Laya: Great idea. Anne: So we have backlinks to one another. So it's kind of a really interesting way, but it kind of is like you're talking with a pay-to-plays. They do kind of have the SEO game going on with those terms that people might be searching for. And so that might make you think, whether you agree or not, to maybe just put a profile up there. Doesn't mean, you know, right now I'm personally just don't have -- I think I belong to two of them officially, but I don't have any time to necessarily audition. I don't remember the last time I've auditioned for a pay-to-play. Laya: Sure. Anne: But I also have pay-to-plays that I'm not a member of, but I do have a profile on. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So it all works towards people knowing who I am, what kind of business -- you know, it's all about who are you and what do you do for a living? Oh, she's a voiceover artist. I'm looking for one of those. Laya: Yes. Anne: So that all kind of plays into the game of getting that work, which is what we're supposed to do. That's our business. Laya: Yeah. Anne: Right? Getting that work. Laya: And I would say one more thing about just where to get work and how do you start, especially if you're in the startup or the bootstrapping stage of your BOSS business. You know, just letting everyone you know, know that you're down, down to talk down to, you know, do their work, do their IVR, do their phone system, voice their scratch track. Sometimes getting in with production houses is just as easy as saying, hey, no charge. I'm here to do your scratch tracks for you. You know, just so we can start building relationship. You can get to know my style and then potentially cast me in the future for something, but sometimes just letting people know what you do and what you're about. We often talk about how to use social, and Facebook for me, isn't necessarily a business driver. Anne: Right. Laya: But you bet that everybody I in my network knows that I talk for a living. Anne: Sure, absolutely. Laya: Because you never know when the opportunity is going to come up -- Anne: Even in your personal network. Laya: -- for something that they need absolutely. So don't overlook that. Anne: Yeah. And even if you say, well, I don't really advertise on my personal, right, or my Facebook or my social media, in reality, just you being you is -- because remember our brands are so personal -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: --- that you are an aspect of your business. I just wrote a blog on that. You know, it's something to always consider when you say put pen to paper or type to the post, always consider that, you know, there are eyeballs looking at that, and knowing that you are a voiceover artist, and this is what you do for a living. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So the more people that know, right, this is what you do, the more opportunities you will have. And so great, great discussion on how to get work and how to be known to agents, pay-to-plays, managers, production houses. Good stuff. Laya: Yeah. Thank you, Anne. This was super informative. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge with me as well. Anne: Great, big shout out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network like a BOSS and find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, be productive. Go get cast and have an amazing week. We'll talk to you next week. Laya: Take care. Bye-bye. Anne: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Bosses, your time is money. Don’t waste a second of it! Anne + Laya dive deep into all the things that keep their businesses on track every day. From adding personal time to the calendar to automating follow up emails, you’ll want to try it all. Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, along with the amazing, happy new year, very special guest cohost Laya Hoffman. Laya, yay! Laya: Hey Anne, happy new year. Anne: Happy new year to you. How are you, Laya? Laya: Did you rock it? I'm great. I'm like ready to seize this year. Anne: Did I rock it? Like every new year's -- Laya: Did you rock it? Anne: I'm getting older now, so it's harder and harder. Laya: It's slower rocking. Anne: It's slower rocking for me, but you know what? I celebrate it just as much, however, I may not be awake exactly. Laya: Yeah. I mean, well, it's funny. I used to run nightclubs for a living, and so New Year's Eve was the biggest thing that we did all year long. And I can't even tell you the planning and the hours awake that I stayed. Anne: Oh, I can imagine. Laya: It's probably not something I would admit publicly. And here I am, but now I'm like to me, a rocking new year is in bed by 10. Anne: And you were probably the thing about that is you were probably working at the stroke of midnight. Laya: Oh working, oh, for sure. I was, I was on stage commanding the audience, doing the thing popped in the balloons. Oh yeah. The whole nine yards. Anne: The whole nine yards. Laya: These days, my rocket new year is much more low key. Yeah. Anne: And it got very confusing when my husband and I moved from the east coast to the west coast. Cause now we're like, well, okay, can we celebrate it at 9:00? Laya: Yes, you can. Yes, you can. Because the ball drops at 9:00. Absolutely. Anne: The ball drops at 9:00 out here. Laya: Yes, it does. Anne: And I still get confused. I don't know. We've been out here forever and I still get confused, but anyway. Laya: You can do it. You can do it. Anne: We go on. Laya: I say so. Anne: We go on. Laya: We go on to a better, brighter year, hopefully. Anne: That's right. Laya: Because gosh, I mean, we've had some success. We talked about this in the last episode. Anne: Yeah. Laya: There was a lot to look back on last year as being positive, and with this new growth mindset, we're walking into the new year, but we've got some good -- Anne: We've got work to do. Laya: -- ideas to share. Yes, we do. Anne: That's right. Laya: And we have to make this year the best yet. Anne: Yeah. So with all this work that we've already kind of like, here's what we want to do for our new year -- and of course, you know, over the actual time that you've had to think if you've had some time off, you might've come up with some more things that maybe you want to do for this new year, get yourself pumped up. So I think it's a great time to talk about, oh, how can I get this all organized? How can I be more productive with my time? Because I had a lot to do last year. And if I want to continue those, if I want to continue my brand and my parallel income streams, I still have a lot to do this year. So I want to know how can I do that more productively? Laya: That is a great question. I'm asking myself that all the time, but as a Virgo, A-typical personality, super organized and a little OCD, I think that for me, it starts with a bit of a daily checklist. And I mean, I don't always stick to it, but at least it's in my framework of which buckets of the business can I dip into and touch a little bit every day? So that's where my productivity window starts. How about you? Anne: Well, okay. So yeah, old school, old school, I have a to-do list. Laya: Your pen and paper. Anne: Yes, my pen and paper. And because I have to continue to make sure that I can actually write with a pen. It's interesting because when I write checks now like hand write checks, it's -- Laya: Oh yeah, your signature is all crazy. Anne: Yeah! Laya: Calligraphy is off. Anne: My calligraphy is off. Laya: Yeah. Anne: I feel like the pen doesn't fit right in my hand anymore. Laya: Yeah, isn't that crazy? Anne: And that's with my to-do list. I'm constantly scratching on my to-do list. And literally I have saved my to-do list for the past five years. And they're just these little, I have these wonderful, thin notebooks that I love to write in, lined. And I basically every single day, actually the night before, this is what helps me, I write down what I want to accomplish the next day or what I need to do for the next day. Laya: Love that. Anne: It doesn't always get crossed off because sometimes those tasks are, you know, multiple day tasks. But for me, what I love is, and I, and I remember you telling me, you like to cross those things off. I mean, that is like a -- Laya: I do. Anne: -- it's like a feel-good, I'm done, cross it off. I like that. I check beside it because I like to be able to see what I've done throughout the year. I still use that as kind of a checkpoint, but I also like to flip the page, right? To a new day, a clean -- Laya: A new day. Anne: -- slate. Laya: A clean slate. Absolutely. Anne: A clean slate, absolutely. And I make sure that that is the first thing that I do. Plus as I'm telling you, I'm getting a little older, my brain doesn't always remember everything that I have to do. Laya: Sure. Anne: So writing it down really helps cement this is what I have to do. It helps remind me of what I have to do. And the check mark is like so satisfying. Laya: Yes, it is. Well, speaking of that check mark, I actually have something maybe we are able to share with the BOSSes, like the actual document, but I created a VO business daily checklist for myself that is in those buckets. It has a few things. The buckets are, what do I do in my voice work? it's warm up stretch, vocalize, then all the way down the list into check emails, record and edit and deliver jobs, file all the work, you know, digital folders, et cetera, and make sure that -- Anne: Write the invoices. Laya: -- it's not all cluttered on the -- yes, the invoices, all of that. Then there's a bucket for business development. Then there's one for social, like stay active, but -- Anne: Love it. Laya: -- don't waste time here. That's a huge asterisk next to everything. Learn something new is another bucket and health and wellness is a bucket -- Anne: Nice. Laya: -- as we've talked about a lot before, so maybe I'll polish this thing up, and we can share it with our BOSSes. Anne: Yes, that sounds amazing. Laya: It's helpful. It's equal parts -- I print them out. I have it digitally, but then I can check them off and start a new page when everything's accomplished. Helps my mind stay focused and stay productive. Anne: Well, you know, what's really nice too, is if any of you guys are Mac users, the Notes, just the simple Notes application works great. You can create a checklist. Laya: Yes, it does. Anne: Yup. And what I love about it is you can check those things off and then you can see it nicely and neatly checked off. So if you aren't enthralled with your handwriting. Laya: No handwriting required. Anne: No handwriting required for the Notes version. And yeah, I think that that for me is the number one thing that helps me stay organized and be productive. And I'm going to talk a little bit about, 'cause you mentioned it, social media. I literally cannot have a social media window open when I am trying to be productive. I just -- Laya: Nope, nope, no notifications either for me. Anne: -- can't. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And even though I say to myself, I am advertising on social media, right? 'Cause I have events through my VO Peeps and my VO BOSS episodes I'm posting out there, and I want to make sure that I'm responding and engaging with the community. I cannot have the windows open for LinkedIn, for Facebook, for Instagram, for anything, if I'm trying to get something done. So I make sure that I have specific times during the day that I will open them up and check and then respond. Laya: Yes. I actually agree with that. And here's a tip for BOSSes. I use my social media, meaning Instagram and Facebook, the real, you know, schleppy social media channels, but are equally as important. I only check those in the morning over coffee, 8:00, 9:00. And then again in the evening, 5:00, 6:00. The reason I do is because those are peak times for engagement. And so if you are going to post, and people are going to engage, the chance of them seeing it is higher in those time points -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- as opposed to you posting it 2:00 in the afternoon or 9:00 at night. So those are great windows of opportunity for exposure and to compartmentalize. And then I check LinkedIn at lunchtime because that's when my business colleagues and people are most active on LinkedIn is straight in the middle of their day. It's going to trickle out on its own time, as we know about all these platforms. But for me, that's where I compartmentalize that time to make sure that I don't stay off. I'm not great at it, but that's where I like to stay. Anne: And I think it's been, I think that those specific times are really good. And you know, it's been an adjustment, I will say, because I know that people were more used to me being like immediately engaging on social media. And I know the past couple of years, I just cannot be immediately there to respond or comment when things come in, and it's okay. I've had to kind of be okay with that myself to not be as available out there. And I've always like stressed and worried. Well, if I don't respond, will I lose my audience? Laya: Oh gosh. Anne: But I think that that has been one of those things that I have had to really try to test out and see, okay, how many times do I need to revisit and engage with my audience before they figure, oh, this is just, nobody's really here. And I do know that I have certain social media avenues where people think I'm not there, and that I'm a robot. And that has been something that I've been really consciously trying to test out and rectify and figure out what is the -- is there a magical formula for when and how often I should revisit that? So that has been the last couple of years, it has been a definite like test on my part, and I've realized that I don't have to be there. And in reality, I think the way social media has gotten in the past where it's been a little more toxic, a little more frustrating, there are more people who are taking time off from social media. And it's a little more accepted that -- Laya: Oh, it's beyond accepted. Anne: -- I'm not there. Laya: And let me give you a perspective flip on the mindset of that. If I see somebody that's constantly on social media, like throughout the day, the first thing I think of is they're not busy in their work. Anne: Oh my goodness, yes. Laya: They're not successful because they're -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- wasting their time here if -- they wouldn't be here if they had jobs in the booth. So when I see people that are super active all day long, I think what are you doing in your business? You're just chatting or responding to people. Anne: I love that you say that. Laya: So the mindset flip there is like, hey, the perception, maybe to others, if I am responding so much, is that I don't have enough work in my business. Anne: Well, yeah. Laya: And nobody wants to feel that way. Anne: Nobody wants that. Laya: But that candidly is sometimes what I see when I -- and not in our industry necessarily, when I see other people that I think are successful creatives. I'm like, what are you, how do you have time to be on this at 2:00 in the afternoon? You know? And so that's just a different way to shift your perspective. Maybe that'll help. I don't know. Anne: No, I actually, I love that you said that because there will be times I will see certain people, if they're continually commenting, continually posting, and I'll be like, what? Like, and this sounds horrible, but like, stop, like, just be quiet. Like just want to say, why are you here so much? Laya: Yes. Anne: Like if you're that busy, why are you still talking? Laya: Or if you're that successful, how are you that -- there's no way you're that successful if you were spending half your day or you're checking in every hour or whatever it is. And it's a willpower thing. Right? And so I'm like, maybe you're a little weak in your willpower, or maybe you're a little weak in your self-esteem that you've got to be on this all the time -- Anne: Interesting. Laya: -- looking for re-encouragement or looking for engagement when you should just be in your business. So that's kind of where I stuck in my head when I felt the same way about you. I started to notice how I felt when I saw that type of activity. Anne: Yeah, I think it's always -- Laya: Maybe that's a hack. Anne: I think it's always good to look inward. So how you -- it's similar to, let's say emails, right? So if I got an email from somebody, and it was unsolicited and they're trying to sell me something, and I look at it and inside I go really? Like, and that is my initial reaction. I think that all BOSSes should look to that. In terms of before you post something, before you email something, before you do anything, how would you react if it was done to you? That kind of thing, you know? Right. I mean, it's just, it's like life lessons 101. Laya: Sure, sure. Anne: If that happened to you, how would you feel? And so there are so many people that are silently doing that to every move possibly that you make on social media or in an email. They're silently making assessments. That's how I'll put it, they're making assessments. Laya: Sure. Anne: And so -- Laya: That's what I was doing. I, so I totally agree with that. Yeah. Anne: I think it's a good check to find out should I post, should I say that? Should I do that? So in terms of helping me be more productive, it actually has helped me to be more productive to limit myself -- Laya: Good for you. Anne: -- limit my input on social media. So that is definitely a number two productivity hack so that I can get my job done and not be distracted. Laya: Time management. Anne: Yes. Laya: You know, it's about everything. And it also kind of comes down to how you format your day. I don't know about you, but a typical day for me will be I get up and I'll do my wellness exercises, my meditation, we've talked about that. Get some fresh air, take care of my kid, get right down to work. I'll usually address -- and I, and I do this in stages and kind of in blocks. And I've learned this through some of my other voiceover mentors, because it's very easy to get wrapped up and scattered in your brain as to, oh, I should. I got to just get these invoices. And I just take a little bit of time every day, but I keep it organized, right? I'll handle all my top priority clients and agent auditions first or jobs, but usually a job isn't -- for me because I work shortform, is not usually left to the next morning unless it has to be. But the warmups for me tend to sit there, and then I'll continue to block the day where if there's jobs, in between those jobs or those sessions, I know I've got invoicing later this afternoon, I'm going to do all my invoicing in one block. And so those block mentality, as you compartmentalize your day, can help you stay productive. And there's a lot of thought about that, like work for 50 minutes and then take that 10-minute break, get up, walk around, get a snack, get a drink, what have you. And so if you can block your day -- Anne: That's important. Laya: -- that also helps with productivity. Anne: Well, as a matter of fact, my sessions are 50 minutes long. So I have 10 minutes to just relax and/or prep for my next session. And I wanted to kind of go back in terms of communication with clients, right? In terms of any type of communication with clients that you might do over and over again, there's a really cool feature that I love in, well, I have two ways that I do it. One is in Gmail. Gmail has templates now. So if you have a certain message that you send over and over to, let's say, a new contact, "hi, thanks so much for contacting. It's a pleasure to meet you. I'd be thrilled to be the voice for your next project." And so those types of templates can be automatically filled through the Gmail templates. I also had another thing that I purchased before the Gmail template came out and that was called Type 4 Me. And that's on a Mac. Laya: Oh, okay. Anne: T-Y-P-E, 4, the number four, Me. And that allows me to have all of these little like clips of the same type of emails, even my response, like my "warm regards, comma, you know, new line, new line, Anne Ganguzza." Laya: Right. Anne: That is, that is a clip. And I can just in a keystroke and with one, I'll do it. Like, thank you. I think I do, uh, TYWR, then it pops in those words for me into the email. And that helps me so immensely. Laya: Thanks for that hack, Anne, because I am a Mac user, and I'm slightly jealous. I know there's a way to convert into using your email to, or Apple Mail to Gmail, but I missed from my old days, those canned email responses. And so what I do is -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- I have a document for that, but thank you for helping me to the Type 4 Me, for Mac. I knew there was something. Anne: There is. Laya: Because I do use canned email templates for a lot of things. I do -- I have one for generic inquiries, for generic corporate work or just what my kind of standard rates are. And that helps you streamline the process. Of course, I tweak and personalize where I need to and when I need to, but just like you see some templates features in some of the pay-to-plays, it's very helpful to -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- just continue to go back to that. I like to keep mine in Google docs, that way I can pull it from anywhere or in my notes, and it can be on my phone in case I'm on the go. And that makes sure that you don't miss anything when communicating quickly to a new client or sending -- Anne: Oh, it's so helpful. Laya: -- inquiry, right? So it's so key. Thanks for that, Type 4 Me. Anne: Type 4 Me. And I think also on the Mac, there is an auto-complete. If you type a few characters, there is an auto-complete, and you can set that up, and that's just comes with the operating system. However, I'm so used to -- and you might want to look into that. Laya: Sure. Anne: Just look into Mac iOS auto-complete, and see how you can enact that or enable that. But I love the type, the Type 4 Me is, it just pops up. It's a little application and I can just say, assign these few characters to this snippet. You know, so it's actually a snippet. Laya: Sure. Anne: And I love, love, love it, because it totally helps me. And I'll tell you another thing that helps me, which I found out a couple of years ago, because I do schedule meetings, and I'm in meetings quite a bit, not just with clients, but also with students. And so my other is a scheduling system, which is done through my Wix website that schedules on my calendar, integrates with my Google calendar, which by the way, I would not be able to live without my Google calendar. Laya: Same. Anne: Everything is scheduled into my Google calendar, and there's a lot of programs out there. Laya: My whole life. Anne: Yes, my life is Google calendar, and everything, there are lots of programs out there that integrate with a Google calendar. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So that is like another one of my hacks. Like literally here, if you want to talk to me or you want to get in touch with me, bang, go sign up for a free consult or just get on my calendar here. And those types of automations really help me to schedule when I can talk to people. Like I literally am scheduled out probably -- my days are pretty darn busy, but this is an ongoing thing with me. You literally need to get me at least a week or two in advance before I can fit you in. 'Cause I've got it so blocked out. Laya: Yeah. Anne: The biggest problem that I have is that if I don't block out time for me, then I have no time for me. That is an issue. Laya: Exactly. So you gotta be number one on your calendar. Anne: Yep. Laya: I agree with you in that I use Calendly, which I've found to be incredibly helpful, especially if you get into the customization. Because for me, I've got, of course I just spoke, I've got an Apple calendar and that does integrate with the Gmail calendars and things of that. I share a calendar with the household. My kid's got a calendar, you know, all of those things. If you're laser connected to Calendly and you can have your own VO calendar, from there, I compartmentalize whether you need a 15 minute precession chat or a SourceConnect test, or maybe you just need to talk about a project that's coming up. Maybe that's a 30 minute block. I've got my session blocks as well for an hour or 50 minutes. And that's helpful to send to my agents for instance -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- where they're like, hey, we just need to know your schedule. Like what's your general availability for the next two weeks? I'm like, here's my link to Calendly and -- Anne: Oh my God. That's a perfect idea. I love that. Laya: Send that over. Now the thing is though for me, I've chose not to add it to my website. The con for me -- pro would be that it's super easy. The con is that then I would have no control over who's booking. And so I have it embedded in a private link on my website. That private link also has my revisions policy -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- my professional services guarantee, and my resume in case somebody needs any of that old school, the old school resume information. Anne: Yup, yup. Laya: So I'll send that link to clients that are asking, or I'll just send the Calendly link for this specific time slot they're asking for which can be its own independent link. Like, hey, we just need a SourceConnect test. Well, here's all the 15 minute blocks that you could get in my schedule over the next infinity. So that to me has been a huge bonus hack as far as keeping things easy. And then you're not going back and forth with the well, yeah, 2:00 on Thursday -- Anne: Oh gosh, that takes up -- Laya: -- from this time to this time. Anne: -- so much time. Laya: You're actually -- and it makes you look way less professional and like you've got a system for your schedule, and that you're in demand. And so -- Anne: Well, yeah. Laya: -- I think that has, it serves many purposes. Anne: And I actually have it linked to my signature on my email. Laya: Nice. Anne: Here, set up a consult or whatever, schedule a chat with me. And so it just links to my scheduler, which is so, so helpful for me because you're right, the back and forth, "okay. So when are you available?" And I'm like, honestly, the best way to get in touch with me is here. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And I'll give them a link to my calendar to get on my calendar, and that just helps. And what's nice is it's automated. It has like, thank you. Here's how we're going to connect. You know -- Laya: Yes, same. Anne: -- it might be ipDTL, or it might be via phone call. It might be via Zoom. I've got all the different ways that you can connect with me. And it just makes my life so much easier. I'm going to say that when I implemented my schedule or my calendar, it literally saved me -- and it automated like sent out the emails. Laya: Yeah. Anne: Thank you for connecting. Here's your automated reminder. Laya: Yes, the follow-up on those are awesome. Anne: Oh, gosh, you can do follow-up. And the fact that it automated all of those emails saved me 50%, at least, of the time that I used to try to schedule people in at times and going back and forth with email. It just became really, really frustrating. Laya: Yeah. And the effort to become more accommodating to your clients, to your students, to whoever, even your friends, you end up wasting more of your time. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And so that's kind of a boundary set. That's really nice. And I love that you spoke to the automation on the backend. Anne: Yeah. Laya: Like I mentioned with Calendly, I can send an immediate reminder 15 minutes prior to session. Anne: Yup, yup. Laya: I can send a follow-up message two weeks after or a week after, or what have you, that says, hey, just checking in, making sure everything is clean with the audio, if you had any other needs. And so it takes that extra wheelhouse off of my mind. Of course, I still have my own method for following up with the client personally, but this just adds like this extra layer. And sometimes I'll get the response back, and they'll be like, oh, thank you so much for checking back in. And to be honest, I may have even forgotten and you know, to follow up or got so busy and something else. Anne: Yeah. Laya: So it saves just peace of mind and professionalism. It takes it to the next level. Anne: And I think also there are those programs or CRMs that can help you to -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- once you connect with your contact, after you've done the job, it can send out an automated email that said "thanks so much again, it was a pleasure working with you and keep me in mind for any additional projects. If you have any questions in the meantime, feel free to contact me here" and boom, and then are actual like on a Wix platform, I have a few drip campaigns that are set up that will automatically contact my clients. So if anybody's on a Wix platform, it is part of the Ascend platform that you -- it's an add-on for email marketing. And basically, so after you connect with a client, you can have a "if then" statement that says, if they open this email, then three days later, send this email or send a followup. And there's lots of different scenarios. So it's really great. So I'll give an example for a VO BOSS interview. If somebody inquires about I want to be on the veal BOSS show, it goes through a whole campaign. Here, sign up here, fill out this form here. The form then sends me all the information, and then it gives them a link to the calendar, which then allows them to schedule, which then there's an automated email that says, thank you so much. Here's how you're going to connect with Anne. It'll send a reminder right before the connection. And then a couple of days after the actual scheduled session, there'll be a thank you that goes out. So it's really awesome the way that it can automate. Laya: I love that. Anne: And there's more than just -- that's the Wix platform. I also have an Active Campaign that I send emails out from to my lists. I also have client lists that can also do automations like that. Laya: Yeah. I've seen some of that same functionality in using HubSpot, which is a free CRM solution. You can connect Zapient to MailChimp. Anne: Yes. Laya: You can connect it to -- Anne: Is it Zapient? Laya: Zap -- Zapient? Anne: Or is it Zapier? Is it Zapier or Zay-pier? I can't remember. Are they two different things? Laya: I think they may be one in the same. Anne: Okay. Laya: I'm not going to fact check myself in this moment, but -- Anne: if you start with zap -- Laya: There's a zap somewhere. There's a zap somewhere out there. Anne: I've used it myself. And it's great. Laya: It's great. Anne: So if this happens, then do that. It's a really wonderful free app that you can do things like that with. Laya: And you can pull content too. Like if you have a hard time pulling all your email addresses because you've got multiple email accounts, or you're trying to create more of a contact list -- in fact, I recently found out an automation was in that cog wheelhouse that pulls my contacts from QuickBooks and put it into MailChimp. So I don't have my CRM solution fully vetted out by any means. I need all the help in the world, but trying these different productivity hacks for automation, there are many solutions out there that can make your life easier and less laborious, you know? Anne: Absolutely. And one other thing I'm going to oh, totally, totally recommend is go ahead, be brave and outsource things that you just -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- don't want to spend your time doing, or it's too com -- I'm going to say like for me, accounting, I say it all the time. Everybody that's listened to any, to just one episode, I might say it every episode. I'm not sure, but outsourcing my accounting was the best thing I ever did for my business. Laya: Yeah. If you don't love it -- Anne: Don't love it. Laya: -- pay someone that does. Anne: And she's great. She's fast. She loves it. And I trust her. I trust her with my life. You know, she'd been doing my accounting for gosh, at least five years. So. Laya: And that's a great hack too. And I use somebody not for my voiceover business, but for the podcast. I have partnered with a very talented, very savvy copywriter, and she knows my style of I, and she creates a social media posts for the podcast that I do with my daughter, She Sounds Like Me. And I love it because it just takes that off my plate. But also we use a platform called Later, which is a social media scheduler. And what I love about that is that I can see what's coming. She can do a cross platform integration and schedule. I can approve it ahead of time. And then if I don't like where she's got it, or it doesn't feel quite right, or it's not timely, I can very easily shift the tiles. So it's either aesthetically pleasing or it's more on topic point or what have you. And that's become a seamless integration into my social media management. I've often thought about integrating it into my voiceover business page, but for me that's still very in the moment, very real time, very personal -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- and not exactly all that consistent at the moment because of just the last year of burnout. But I have found that Later is a great platform. And I feel like I've tried them all over the years, as far as social media scheduling goes. Anne: Yeah. Laya: So that one's pretty efficient. Yeah. Anne: I have a social media scheduler for, 'cause I have so many Facebook business pages, and Facebook for a while was really where a lot of my clients were. And so I have a Facebook scheduler, which also integrates with Twitter and LinkedIn. I can have so many social media to -- it's called Post Planner. Laya: Okay. Anne: And so I've been using that for years. And then also Facebook now has become, and/or Instagram, one in the same now, have their own scheduler now. Laya: Sure, they do. Anne: And so that has become fairly decent in terms of you can't schedule too far, but you can schedule out. So with the combination of those, I'm able to schedule the majority of my stuff out there. And then I will follow up with the engagement. Like I said, I can't be connected to social media every hour of the day, but when I do connect, that's when I engage and comment and respond and also post some interesting finds to my own timeline or add to what I've already posted before to keep it kind of fresh and not too predictable. Laya: Yeah. Absolutely. Another great resource that I've been loving because my days of graphic design or my experience there is limited -- I know what I like aesthetically, but there's no way I'm going to spend time creating unique graphics, whether it's for the show or for promoting the business or promoting something within the voiceover business, like we've done with the podcast. I love using Canva and I use Canva Pro for graphic design for so many things. Anne: Yay! Canva's amazing. Laya: And it's actually, yeah, speaking of integration and scheduling, Canva just introduced a scheduler within their platform. Anne: [gasps] Yes. Laya: And what I love to deep -- and take it to a next level, everyone asks who may not be savvy in those audio grams, where you're seeing how you've maybe just done a radio commercial, and you've gotten full permission from the client, you can use the spot on social or to promote your business, but they don't have moving imagery. So you grab the picture that represents the brand best or the concept or the campaign. And you overlay that audio on top. People are always asking, how did you do that? I use Headliner for that. Anne: Yup. Headliner's awesome. Laya: Love that. I use it for the podcast as well. And sometimes for some of my voice work or for my demos to make a moving image. But Canva now integrates with Headliner. Anne: Oh, amazing. Laya: So these, some of these systems are working together to not only plan, create, schedule, but overlay -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- all in an effort to be more productive, more cohesive, and save you time. Anne: I have to plus like 21,000 for Canva because that literally, you don't have to be a graphic artist -- Laya: No, it's so easy. Anne: -- which not many people I know. Laya: It's intuitive. Yeah. Anne: And so I would struggle with Adobe because I have the Creative Suite -- Laya: Same. Anne: -- but it's not something I use every single day. I'm not a graphic designer, and neither are necessarily anybody that's working with me to do to post social media. But Canva has just joined us together in happy, joyous unity. Laya: Oh, I love it. I love it for my teams too. Anne: Yup. Laya: Like I was saying about my social media manager, we have folders that are specific to that brand. Anne: Yup. Laya: I have folders that are specific to my voiceover business or Cyla's voiceover business. And so to go in there and have this asset library -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- and the membership is very inexpensive. Anne: It is. Laya: There is a free version -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and then an inexpensive version. I just make sure -- Anne: I use Pro. Laya: -- that these are part of my -- yeah, me too, to integrate that as part of my business cost, because those memberships can save you so much time, energy, and effort and up-level the look and feel of your brand and your professionalism. Anne: I didn't know they had scheduling. Now I'm going to have to check that out. Laya: Yeah. Anne: That's awesome. Laya: I don't know what it integrates with or if it's a standalone scheduler, but I love that it's there. It's, everybody's thinking along those same lines, you know? Anne: God, good stuff. Laya: For sure. Anne: BOSS productivity hacks. Laya: Love it. Anne: You guys BOSSes, we would love to hear your productivity hacks. So we've given you the best of ours. And I think I am really, really excited for an amazing year this year, Laya, and I know you are too. Laya: Yes, let's work smarter, not harder -- Anne: There you go. Laya: -- and be smart and productive in our VO BOSS businesses. Anne: And I'll tell you what else is smart. Our sponsor, ipDTL. Laya: Yes. Anne: I love, love, love ipDTL. It allows me to connect with Laya, with all of my clients and with every BOSS out there. So you can find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing, productive week. And we'll see you next week. Laya: And happy new year, absolutely. Anne: Yes. Happy new year. Bye, guys. Laya: Bye-bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

How’s your vision board looking lately? Take time to lay out your ideas, hopes, and dreams for this upcoming year and establish a growth mindset that will move you forward! Anne and Laya discuss the tools and strategies they use to manifest outcomes within their own businesses, including tangible ways to create and maintain a healthier work/life balance in the midst of stressful times. Incorporate what works for you, from note-taking progress, to genre-specific training, developing tracking systems for career goals, or fostering mentorship opportunities - all while building a strong support system. Move beyond the resolutions this year, and focus on a truly life-changing new mindset of growth. Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza with my amazing, very special guest cohost Laya Hoffman. Hey Laya. Laya: Hey Anne. Hey BOSSes. Nice to be back. Anne: Laya, you know, it's that time of the year -- Laya: It is. Anne: -- towards the end of the year, where we look forward to an amazing new year coming to our BOSS enterprises and our lives. And so I thought it'd be a great time to discuss a new mindset for a new year. Laya: Absolutely. It's all about setting the intention, the reflection of the year, and the things we learned about what we just went through. And man, we've learned a lot. Anne: Oh gosh. Every year I think I learn more, and I hope that for you BOSSes out there that it is the same. As you go from year to year, you're building, you're growing, you're learning. And I think I'd love to share some tips with you about maybe how I get a great start to my New Year's or I try to get a good start to my new year by setting my mind for growth. Laya: Absolutely. That growth mindset is essential. And I love all of our conversations up to this point because they've kind of stacked up into this perfect equation of some of the ideas that we can really dive deep into, but let's list them out today and go through some of the intention-setting for how to prepare yourself for the year ahead. Anne: Sure. Absolutely. Well, I think the first thing you have to do is just really sit down and take a good look at what happened to you this year. Pay attention to what you did month after month. And hopefully you have some sort of a system where -- I have my to-do lists that I jot down and I actually don't throw those to-do lists away. Laya: Really? Anne: Yeah. Laya: That's cool. Anne: It's just like a running list in a notepad right now. I mean I'm old school, right? So I have a piece of paper, and I think it's the only way that I still write to be honest with you other than typing on my computer. I actually write on my to-do list. And so I have a record of what has happened from day to day. And I think looking back on that, it really helps me to understand like where I've been, what projects I've been working on, what new clients I've gotten, what clients I'm following up with, and really gives me a nice like diary or a journal of almost like my to-do's and my accomplishments for the year. Laya: I love that. Yeah, I do something similar. My to-do lists usually gets scratched off as I feel accomplished. If like -- it's like the zero inbox thing. I'm like oh God, crumpled up and throw those out. But what I do is reflect back in kind of my journaling and a lot of what we had talked about in a previous episode about kind of, well, manifestation, right? And so at some point, sometimes twice a year, I'll do my manifestation list of the things that I want to achieve. And then sometimes it's nice to go back and revisit those lists and be like, wow! That actually happened. Or I have work to do if I really want to still get that done and stay focused. So I love taking another step from that and journaling kind of like my pows and my wows, as my daughter would say, which is like, what were the things I was most stoked about this last year that I achieved and what kind of was a low point, but what did I learn from those low points to achieve or apply and do better next year? So I do a version of what you're saying and kind of incorporate that, uh, manifestation process in that too. Anne: Yeah. So what is your next, right? What is your next, I guess, rung on the ladder? I like to think that I climb upwards and grow towards success. And there is one thing I do want to point out that growing your business year after year, it is, it's a little stressful sometimes. Laya: Yeah. Anne: It can really kind of play with your mental brain a little bit because it's scary. Laya: It is. Anne: And I am the first one to admit, it's like, where do I go from here? It's like, wow, how can I grow? And it really forces me to sit back and think about, okay, what do I want to do this year? It's not just a money goal. A lot of times though I like to incorporate numbers though in my, this is what I want to achieve next. Laya: Sure. Those are hard and fast rates in the market, right? Anne: Exactly. Exactly. But it's not just the numbers. It's also what I want to do. What new endeavors do I want to, you know, embark on? Do I want to maybe start a podcast, right? Or maybe -- not necessarily me right now -- I love my VO BOSS podcast, but how can I grow the podcast or how can I grow my voiceover performance? Should I study? Should I look for the next great client? How am I going to do that? Should I step up my marketing? All of those things, what is going to be that next place that I'm going to go that I didn't do last year? Right? Laya: Yeah. Anne: So I want at least one brand new thing that might scare me -- Laya: Yes! Anne: -- to really go for that and try to achieve. Laya: Well, I totally agree with that. In fact, one of the best things about being your own BOSS in this voiceover space is that there are so many layers to peel back, and there is always room for growth, which is a beautiful thing. You know, we don't really ever reach peak status unless you really are the best of the best, but even then we're always learning, and we're always growing. I agree with that completely. I see myself in a twofold space. You know, of course I had a monetary goal at first, and I wanted to surpass that, and I want to double or build on that as I go throughout the years, but I also want to break new ground in different genres. So for instance, and I would love to know yours, 'cause I think it's a little peek behind the curtain, but for me personally, my next rung would be to break into network promos. Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: I've been working really hard on it. I have a beautiful demo. We're both up for an award. Anne: Yes, congratulations. Laya: Yes, congratulations. I think by the time this airs, we may know the turn of that. Anne: That's right. Laya: But what a great honor, and to be able to break into a new genre is really important. That's a win for me. And that's something, that's the next rung for me. What about you? Anne: Oh goodness. So I have a lot of things that I'm thinking. You know, I've always, I always want to grow my businesses more or I want to consolidate them so that my time is better, more efficient. Laya: Yeah, work smarter, not harder. Anne: Exactly, more streamlined. So that's always a challenge to me, especially because I dabble in multiple income streams, and I do have people who work for me. And so it's trying to organize those people to be more efficient, and then also kind of grow with me and then figure out how I can best implement the team so that -- it's an interesting thing when you have a team of people that work with you. It's always trying to make sure that they're joyful and happy and want to work for you because it's just as a good thing all around. You know, if you have people that really believe in the goals and work toward the goals with you, and that is, that's a difficult thing when you're working with people that also have their own business. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So that's kind of a mindset, kind of a culture that I'm looking to nurture and grow as well, so that I can continue to keep anyone that's on my team, you know, happy and willing and wanting to work for the team. And you know, the VO BOSS team is amazing, and they do all sorts of wonderful things for me here. And, uh, I'm very grateful, and I want to continue to work on how we can grow together. Laya: Yeah. That's definitely a next rung thing. And you speak about something we've referenced personally, managing up, stretching your role -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- but also handing off our responsibilities that may be better served for an expert in that particular field -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and really utilizing your resource pool to scale. So, you know, that's a great goal to achieve. Yeah. Anne: That's a goal I continue to work on, and then I've got a new goal of something that I've never done before that I'm looking forward to do -- Laya: What's that? Anne: -- in the next couple of years. That is to author a book or two. Laya: Oh, that would be awesome. Anne: Yes. I've got a couple of thoughts in the back of my head, and I'm starting to research options and how to achieve that. Laya: Yes. Anne: So, I'm excited about that. That's something that I haven't done. No doubt, if I jot down my intentions, I am fairly confident that I'm going to be able to achieve that. Laya: Manifest it. Yes, you will. Anne: Yes. Laya: That's exactly right. And it's a great time to do that. So like, even if you could dream big, and you've got a far reaching goal, this is a great time personally to take that inventory and write it down. Anne: Yup. Laya: People often ask what manifestation is, and you spoke just to it. It's like, write it down, make it your intention. You don't have to necessarily put it in your focal point every single day. But if you put out there in the universe that's what you want, you never know, that might be what you attract. Right? Anne: Exactly. Laya: It's a great intention to put out there. I see you doing it. Yeah. Anne: I've always, and I say this in multiple episodes, or if you've listened to any other BOSS episode, I really run my business in my life with my gut. And so if I put it out there, and I believe in it, I usually find the way to make that come true. Laya: Yes. Anne: Even if I don't make it come true in the way that I originally thought, I have certainly learned a ton along the way, and actually revised it to a point where it works better than the original intent. So I'm very, very happy. I really believe that it is, it's something that has always, always worked for me. And I believe that it can work for anybody if they -- Laya: I would agree. Yes. Anne: Yeah. Laya: You trust that gut. Anne: Yeah. Laya: I mean, it, that, grateful for the gut, right? Anne: Yeah. Laya: It guides us. Anne: It really does. Laya: And if you tapped into that, that's when it can feel really great. And you know that you're on the right path for yourself. So. Anne: One thing though, after all of these goals and manifestations, I was going to say, and I look to you for this -- I need to create a better work-life balance because anybody that knows me knows me, I'm a little bit of a workaholic, so that's on my to-do list, but I know that you can really speak to that probably more so than I can. Laya: Well, maybe it's just because the kid factor keeps me on my toes -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and I feel like I have to segment that. And also just knowing the grace that we all needed this last year, I put that work-life balance in place to give myself some relief to look forward to in the way of vacations and whatnot. But yeah, I've heard recently, it's not just a 9-5. We know that our voiceover business is so much more than that. And you do have to be available at the ready, but yeah, putting some boundaries in place is okay, and is okay and actually creates respect and accountability for yourself, for your clients, and the people that work for you and with you. So I think that that is key, Anne. Let's give you a day off every week. Anne: Right? Laya: Let's give you a time off to turn it off, Anne. Let's do that. Anne: And it's funny because I also want to mention that when I work with my students, I have some students who work full-time, and then they're pursuing this on a part-time basis. And you know what? I need to take my own advice because here's what happens. When you get into the booth, and you are stressed out beyond belief, or you're tired, you're running, you've got family, you've got a full-time job, you've got maybe another part-time job or you're trying to work on voiceover, when you get in that studio, all of that comes out in your voice -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- if you are not centered and relaxed. Laya: That's right. Anne: And so it will affect your performance. So in reality, having that work-life balance is actually going to make you a better performer. Laya: I agree with that. I can feel the stress when I just feel like I have not had any me time, and you can hear it. Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: You can feel it in the voice. I mean, these microphones amplify us, right? And so it amplifies that energy. And I think that if you don't make that time, and you don't give yourself that grace and the breaks, then you can't come back refueled, and eventually that'll lead to either resentment or frustration or burnout. And then it won't nurture the most authentic, true meaning of this business, which is to do it because you love it. Right? And so I commend -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- people that are doing it on the side and then working to get to that full-time place. Anne: Yes. Laya: We've all been there. Anne: It's so hard. Laya: Yes, it is. Anne: It is. Laya: And it really does take some very diligent time management so that you can make sure you're being your best self to yourself, your businesses, whatever your current employer is -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and your future boss, which is yourself. Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. So, yeah, work-life balance is high on that list for next year for me. Laya: I'm going to hold you accountable, Anne. I'm gonna check in next month and see where you're at with that. Anne: Okay. So besides new genres, what about, what else for you? You have anything else? Laya: You know, I really like to continue to find and nurture that mentor-like network. We've talked about it before, the people on the compass, my north star. Make sure to nurture those relationships so that they stay healthy, and I stay accountable, and also giving as much as I'm receiving. You know, mentoring someone else that's coming up, reaching my hand down or out to the sides and pulling my people in and sharing this information. It's one great reason or result of this podcast is being able to spread information and share and be a resource -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- to fellow talent, but not just within our genre and our industry, but in others. I mentor young women, my daughter, other young female entrepreneurs, is something that's very important to me. So that's something that I'll be looking for. Not only continue to nurture my relationship with my mentors, but also create new relationships and become a mentor. How about you? Anne: Yeah. And I think really find the time to have a mentor. And that has been something I've been guilty of just because I'm working many different brands, many different things that I'm doing. And I have been on a search for a mentor, and I've actually met someone this year that I'm really going to pursue that mentorship with because -- and this is a mentor that's actually outside of the industry. Laya: Yeah, which is totally cool. Right? Like -- Anne: I love it, yes. Laya: -- you can glean so much from that. Good for you. Anne: I love it. Because what it does is it gives me a perspective that I don't have when I'm inside, in the voiceover industry. This gives me a different perspective and really takes me to a place where I can like, kind of come out of the box and think in a broader term, how can I reach a broader audience and how can I stretch myself even further? That's the most important because sometimes just thinking myself, what can I do to grow? It's hard to come up with ideas, right? And so a mentor, and especially when I think that's outside of the industry, for me, it's a business mentor, you know, here's what you need to really consider to grow. And this is what I did, and this is what I experienced and there's, it just, it really opened up a whole new world for me meeting this mentor that I'm really going to make it a point next year to have some consistent meetings with my mentor to help inspire me. Laya: Yeah. I love that. And in addition to that, if a mentor may not be in your space right now, I also work with a life coach who is -- Anne: Oh, nice. Laya: -- not just a therapist, but they coach me both on my business, how I'm presenting myself in the world. She's a very recognized, successful business woman herself. And so she kind of plays both roles. Of course, I pay her for that, right? Anne: Yeah, well. Laya: So it's not just a free trade of information -- Anne: It's an investment, right? Laya: It is an investment, but it's an investment in myself and my business. And she kind of, I found someone that bridges the lines between kind of a personal talk therapy style and more strategy on the overall big picture for lifestyle and then business sense. So I've tapped into someone in that space, again, outside of our industry -- Anne: Nice. Laya: -- that helps me cultivate the best of all those pockets. And that's become really essential to my mental wellness, my emotional wellbeing as well. So something that's very cool, and I would highly recommend to anybody else that's looking to spread that experience out. Anne: Yeah. I completely, completely agree. And yeah. Look to the outside. Laya: Yeah. Anne: Look to the outside, that would be my top suggestion for a mentor. Unless of course, if you're just getting into the industry, a mentor in the industry is absolutely very helpful. Actually find a couple of mentors. Laya: Yeah. Absolutely. Anne: Right? Laya: Somebody on every side of the compass, somebody beneath you, you know, to yourself, somebody above you, and the east and west, that you can bring them in. Like my friend Kelly Buttrick says, it's a great analogy because it keeps it in perspective to go full circle, 360 and to be outside of your ego, which is key in any industry. Anne: Oh yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And so, so important, I think, in order to actually keep yourself, I would say, keep track, to keep yourself grounded, and to also keep yourself moving forward mentally and physically believe it or not, make sure that you are taking those successes that you've seen this past year and write them down. Take a moment to sit there and write down. For example, in my journals, I don't necessarily document, oh, this was a success, but I think you need to sit down at a moment if you haven't done this already and document your successes this past year, because that's going to really give you a great point to identify here's where I am. And now this is where I want to be. And plus it's, I think it's amazing to really give yourself that positive boost in terms of where you've progressed in your voiceover career, because sometimes it's really difficult. I mean, you're only thinking about the last thing that you just did, which was, oh my gosh, you know, I've auditioned a hundred times, and I haven't gotten anything. And so that tends to sit in your brain. So if you can actually think beyond this past day or week and really document, where did you start and how far have you come? What are your successes? And they can be, they don't have to be huge successes. It doesn't have to be, oh, I booked a gig. It could be, I started my website. I wrote my bio, you know, whatever it is, I coached with so-and-so. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And so it can be small things because they all add up. Laya: They sure do. And I've got actually a new practice this year for myself that kind of speaks to this. That might be helpful for some BOSSes. It's just kind of an interesting way that I've documented my success. And what I did was I took a Google spreadsheet that I can pick up from anywhere, from my cell phone or from my computers. And anytime I get a call back or make a real contact or some headway with either one of my managers or one of my agents, I document that in this one spreadsheet. It's organized by agent or manager -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- whether it was a booking or a call back or a hold. And just so I can see kind of how I've stacked up, because you forget those things as the year goes on. Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: You might see or remember the booking or you remember the project, but sometimes you don't remember all those touch points in between, and those are wins too. So maybe you didn't book the job, but that production company, you know, asked for a callback for you. Anne: Exactly. Laya: Or you were given the opportunity to be on hold. Maybe you didn't finally book it, but that's a win. Jeffrey Umberger would state that all of those touch points and those opportunities are essentially as good as a booking -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- because you got right up there in front and you were a top contender. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: And so tracking those things for me has been helpful because then I can look back and see what kind of value I provided to my partners. And it does make you feel a little bit better about where you're sitting status wise, whether you were a great partner in return, and how you are resonating with those managers or agents or partners in your life. So that's something I incorporated this year and I find it to be incredibly eye-opening looking back. Anne: Totally agree. And especially, I want to reemphasize for those of you just starting out in the industry, where you may not be booking gigs every other day or every day. And as a matter of fact, by the way, that's a really difficult thing to do. Even as a veteran in the industry, it's hard. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So we all, we all go through that. So I think it's even more important for you to document those little touch points, those little successes, so that you can actually really see and be encouraged because there's so many students that start out, and they'll come back to me and they'll say, I don't know what's wrong with me. I'm not booking. I just don't know, you know, help me. And I remember it so very vividly when I started out and trust me, it happens. Laya: Oh yeah. Anne: It happens to all of us in the beginning. It's so difficult to kind of get the traction in the industry, and you just have to have faith. Be patient, know that if in your heart, you're working towards your goals -- Laya: You will get there. Anne: -- you're, um, you're manifesting, you will get there, you will get there. And that's why I think those documenting those little successes is so very important, and hang it up in your studio. Laya: Yeah. Anne: I mean, I love that, like -- Laya: A visual. Anne: -- have a little vision board or, you know, I have some students that put sticky notes in their studio. Sometimes they'll put sticky notes to remind themselves about performance issues like don't breathe or whatever, but also I think you should put sticky notes in your booth that have successes on them to really keep your mental state in a powerful and positive mode when you're in there and continuing to audition. Laya: Absolutely. I remember when I started out, if I can just share some vulnerability with you and our listeners -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- is that I think I was tracking my auditions, but very vaguely. You know, sometimes in those pay-to-plays you can see how many auditions you did and we'll get to that, I'm sure, in a future episode, but what you can also see is just how many MP3s you've saved in your folders. And it's pretty easy to take a look at the stack as you start to archive and organize your files. But I think I was at like 1000:1 ratio for a while. Anne: For booking? Laya: Oh yeah. For a while. And it was part of the learning process. And I would try really hard and get super frustrated. But when I got that one, it was a huge win. And when I looked to start creating a website or when I was starting to look for a great coach, those were all really big wins. Anne: Yeah. Laya: So I'm with you -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- especially early on, it can take a lot of wind out of your sails to see some of those tracking -- Anne: Oh my goodness. Laya: -- and documents of your quote success or your work, but it's much better to focus on the successes. So you're absolutely right, Anne. Anne: Oh yeah. And I'll tell you, yeah. When I, and my vulnerability, when I was first beginning too, absolutely, I kept track of my auditions. I kept track of what I booked. And I remember at one point, like literally I was in tears, and I will write out, admit that. Laya: Sure. Anne: Like literally in tears, more than once, frustrated just saying, oh my gosh, I don't belong here. What am I doing? I just quit my job. You know, that kind of thing. Or -- Laya: Same. Anne: -- should I quit? Like what, what is going on here? And so just know BOSSes that those little successes are going to mean a whole lot, and just know that we've all been there, and you can make this new year and amazing year for you -- Laya: You sure can. Anne: -- with a new mindset. Laya: And I think part of that new mindset is relinquishing the pressure or the self-doubt and just changing your focus from a scarcity mindset like there's just not enough. I don't fit in here. There's not enough money coming to me. And going back to something we've talked about in the past is just staying open to the abundance of life. There's plenty of work for all of us out there. There's new mediums and new technologies all the time. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: There's an ear out there that your voice resonates with. It's just about honing it in and getting comfortable in yourself and having an abundant mindset as opposed to a scarcity mindset. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And that is something I got to check in with myself on the regular. Anne: Oh yeah, yeah, we all do . Laya: I do not claim to have perfection there, but as you move into the new year, if you can have an abundant and open and grateful mindset and be excited about the opportunities and your achievements, as, no matter how small or big, then you're on the right track for the year ahead. Anne: Yeah. You know, I also think it's a good thing outside of what's manifesting where you want to be in that next year, is take any part of your business or even your lifestyle or life skills and learn a new one. Pick something new that you want to learn that can help grow your business grow -- because I feel because we are such an intimate part of our own business. I mean, it's our voice. So whether you put that into a work-related skill or a life skill, I think that it all will help to build your business because we are such an inherent part of our own brand. I mean, obviously, more so than any other job that I know out there. I mean actors and voice actors, we are our own products. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So learn something new, and maybe learn something new that I don't know that you didn't think you wanted to learn because sometimes that'll either reinforce the fact that, oh, God, I really don't need to do this. And I might outsource it. That's also a growth mindset in terms of let me invest in outsource. Laya: You're like, yeah, that didn't work for me. Moving on. Anne: Or maybe you'll learn it, and it won't be as hard as you thought it was, like marketing. I know there's so many people that are afraid to market. They're afraid to get out there, but I say, give yourself some small goals to learn new parts of either marketing or I don't know, writing a new bio for your website, getting a website, understanding technologically, what you need to do to get that SourceConnect connection or -- Laya: Yeah, learn that stuff. Anne: -- ipDTL, learn that stuff. There's so many things that are outside of just the performance part of that. Learn more about sound -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- acoustics. Laya: Yes. Anne: So many, so many things that you can do. Laya: Engineering. Anne: And I know there's so many people that are afraid of the technology that it takes to create good audio files and just create good audio, but go ahead and take a class on it. And even if you're not good at the computer, I have people that are not necessarily technologically -- they'll label themselves, I'm not good at technology. Well, take a computer class. Laya: Yeah. Anne: I mean, just something as simple as that can really help you because gosh knows that this is what we do on a day-to-day basis, is work on our computers in some form or fashion, either marketing or creating audio or editing audio, all that good stuff. But I think put one new skill out there for you to learn and then document your progress. And I think you're going to be surprisingly impressed with yourself. Laya: You never know what's either going to light a complete fire under you and reignite something inside yourself from a creative standpoint or just mindset or, you know, skillset that is really going to inspire to push you in a different direction or push your skills outside or grow you inside and out. And those are some of the things that I mark as some of my highlights of last year. I never thought getting into promos was going to be the genre for me. But man, when I started, I loved it so much. It gave me a whole new appreciation for the power of our voice and for storytelling and for the psychology behind how we use our voice in this particular genre. And so I'm excited to introduce new genres that make sense for me, because I'm so inspired by the spark that that education gave to me, similarly to how you know, oh man, I actually could create my own website, and I did it and I'm proud of myself. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And so you either realize that, or just like you said, you realize that's not for me. Let's move. Anne: Exactly. Laya: But you'll never know unless you try. Right? Anne: Learn something new. Laya: So it's a beautiful thing to push yourself there. Yeah, for sure. Anne: And I think all of you witnessed my last series on AI and voice. That was an educational journey for me. That was learning new skills. That was learning something new in the industry that people are not comfortable with that. So, and I knew that as well, but I wanted to make sure that I educated myself on it so it wasn't as scary. Laya: Yep. Anne: And so that was the purpose. Laya: Takes the fear out. Anne: And everybody kind of witnessed me going through my own educational journey and learning something new. Hopefully everybody else benefited from that as well, if they took the challenge to learn something new. So I think that it's a real important part of mindset for your new year to, you know, have those goals, and they don't have to be huge goals. They don't have to be -- as a matter of fact, sometimes huge goals are, you're defeated when you start, because you already feel overwhelmed. Laya: They're daunting. Right, right. Anne: Yeah. So it could be just something simple, you know, for a new job-related skill. Maybe it's like, install Grammarly, you know, which I need all the time, Grammarly on my computer so I can spell things correctly, but just, it could be something very, very simple. And I think you will find that once you master that, and see I'm manifesting for everybody, that you will master that skill. And again, if you don't master the skill, then, well we know what you don't know what you don't like. So -- Laya: Yeah, thank you, next. Anne: -- always a learning, always a learning experience. Laya: These are awesome tips on how to create a growth mindset for yourself. And what I love is if you're doing that for yourself, you never know how that's going to radiate out -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and help the people around you, the family you love, your support system, whatever your network may be, continue to grow and see the opportunities ahead of you. So if it's not a resolution, at least make it a growth mindset. And I think that there is no way to see anything less but good to come out of that. You know? Anne: Yeah, I like that. So we aren't going to make any resolutions. We're simply going to look forward in the year and maybe not call it a resolution because that has such a stigma attached to it. Laya: It does. Anne: You know, sometimes people are already feel like, well, after day one and I'm going to work out every day next year. I know that that is like the, the age old here's what I'm going to do next year. But you guys, you are BOSSes to the absolute 100th degree. So I have the faith. Laya has faith in you. We all have faith in you. So I say, go forth and make 2022 an amazing, amazing year. Laya: Yes. Happy new year, everybody. Have that growth mindset and keep it going, positive direction. Yep. Anne: Okay. Big shout-out to my sponsor that we know and love. Happy, happy new year, and looking forward to many more connections in the future -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- with ipDTL. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing rest of your week, and happy, happy 2022. Thanks! Bye. Laya: Bye! >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

There’s no off season in voice over - which can be a blessing and a curse! Being on the road in VO requires careful consideration of equipment, environment, your clients’ needs, your business goals, and your own sanity(!). Anne and Laya chat vacations and voice over, including what it takes to maintain a complicated artist work/life balance while traveling. They’ll tell you how to reduce your anxiety level while heading out on the road by putting together an organized mobile studio and communicating with your agents, managers, and clients + offer tips about how to set healthy boundaries around your business. Get ready for your next trip with #VOBOSS advice and recommendations… Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, along with my amazing, lovely, wonderful guest co-host Laya Hoffman. Hey Laya. Laya: Hey Anne. It's nice to be back, loving these convos of course. And we've already shared so much. This is getting good. Anne: I know, nice to be back. Speaking of which, Laya, I think you just came back from vacation, and if I'm not mistaken, you did mention that you might be going somewhere else soon. So let's talk about this. Laya: Crazy. Anne: You're a busy voice talent. So let's talk about VO on the road. And if, do you do VO on the road while you're on vacation? Laya: Yes. Every time, because I think it goes without fail, the second you leave is when the call comes in, right? Anne: Always. Laya: Like always, either that client you've been dying to nag or an ongoing campaign or something that just is on fire. It always happens when you go on the road. Anne: When you go on vacation. It's so true. I want to go on the road every other day now because this guarantees me a job. So, but going on the road, going on the road does require, you know, a special travel rig. It requires a -- a special mentality because when you go on the road, I mean vacation, are you really on vacation if you're working? That's the question. Laya: Yeah, yes. It is true. And it kind of, you know, you have to strike a balance. My family is like, oh you know, mom, you're going to bring your rig. Yes. Because mom's going to pay for vacation this way. Anne: This is going to pay for your next meal. No. Laya: Exactly. So there's so many nuances about it, and yeah, there's different schools of thought. I think I'm still green enough in my career in cultivating my client list and my reputation and my partnerships with management and agents, I know that I want to be available. Now, I also put boundaries in place that I'm not available. So it's not like every vacation all the time. Anne: Right. Laya: So let's talk about it. Yeah? Anne: Well I think, yeah, I think absolutely, number one, it depends on what genre, right, you specialize in. Laya: Sure. Anne: Exactly how changed you might be, right, to being available 24/7. I think obviously if you do promos, I mean, you actually sign contracts so that you can be available on a day-to-day basis and you. Laya: Yes, like golden handcuffs, right, right? Anne: Like golden handcuffs. Also, if you're, you know, commercial work, a lot of times, it's like we needed it yesterday. Anything that's broadcast. I know for myself, I do a lot of the long format narration, which I can build in a little bit of time with that. So I think that -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- all of that contributes to whether or not I bring my microphone on the road with me, and I will be honest, for the past, you know, years, I always have, because I never wanted to give up that opportunity. And I also have agents who, you know, when they send me an audition, I better be able to get them that audition back because I don't want to, number one, jeopardize that relationship with the agent, nor do I want to pass up an opportunity that might work for me. Laya: Sure. Anne: So even if I'm doing an audition on the phone, you know, in my car, although I, I have to say, I try to not do that. I try to, well, let me bring my microphone. I really want it to sound good. Laya: Yeah, yeah. Anne: And so thus begins well, what does my travel rig look like? And we can talk about that in a little bit, but what about you? Laya: I feel the same way. You know, like I said, to me, I've gotten my rig down so small and compact, and you know, I use a Sennheiser 416. It gives a premium sound in most situations. Anne: You know, I'm gonna stop you there and agree with you wholeheartedly. Laya: Okay, good. Anne: Just, and I'm gonna let you continue in just a minute, but I do want to say, I don't know why it took me so long to realize that I really should take a 416 with me because most spaces are not optimal. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And the 416 helps me to create awesome sound. So please continue on. Laya: Yes. Anne: I'm right there with you on the 416. Laya: Yes. I'm on it right now. She's my babe. Anne: Yup. Laya: And I think because the rig is, I've gotten it down so compact, it's easy for me to grab my pack and go. But also, like I said, I want to cultivate those relationships. I want to be available. I also, my focus is short form. I'm really trying hard to get into promos. And I've seen quite a bit of opportunities lately. I don't want to miss. Those are usually last minute on fire, need it now auditions. Anne: Yup. Laya: And I want to show the producers, the creative teams, my, my partners that believe in me that I'm there to deliver. And I want those opportunities, you know, I'm going to strike while the iron's hot. So, uh, that, that doesn't bother me. It actually gives me great joy to be able to travel and take my work with me in the nicest way possible. You know? So I'm good with it. Anne: And you know, what else? Um, to be quite honest, I mean, I don't know anyone that takes their travel rig with them and works eight hours a day. Do you know what I mean? Laya: No, yeah. Anne: It just, it's either that audition that's like, oh, boom, I need that right away. Or I need this commercial right away. So if it's a short form kind of a deal, it doesn't always take us hours upon hours away from our families on vacation. So that time could maybe be done when, I don't know, people are napping, right? Laya: Yes, yes. Anne: So that doesn't necessarily take away from the togetherness of your trip. And that was always my kind of theory was, you know, I'll take those times because they, they tend to be not hours and hours of time. It's maybe an hour here, maybe a couple of hours here. It really depends, but it's not an entire day. And so I feel that I can enjoy my vacation once I'm done with that audition or done with that short job that I'll get. And it never takes me completely away. Laya: You're absolutely right about that. And it also kind of gives me peace of mind. I have brought my rig and not needed to unpack it or use it on a few family vacations recently. You know, when the world kind of opened up again, we planned many little excursions to kind of get that travel, you know, get out, and then things changed a little bit. So we stacked the deck a little hard towards the end of this year. And while it's giving me a little bit of anxiety because of how busy things are in the booth, to have that ability to take it, but not necessarily need to use your rig, is okay too. Anne: Right. Laya: It gives me peace of mind as an entrepreneur to say, I have it if I need it, but I don't need to pull the trigger, and I don't need to focus on that work. So I kind of put a loose boundary around that. And then also it just helps give peace of mind to my partners, my agents, my clients to say, I have it, but you should know, I may not be available for directed sessions during this time -- Anne: Exactly. Laya: -- or something like that, or only if it's the right situation. And so let's talk about how do we let people know that we are going on the road? Anne: Well, I'm so glad you asked because in my BOSS Blast, and I'm just -- shameless plug for the VO BOSS Blast -- every time when we communicate with our potential clients on our list, we will give bookout dates. And as we mentioned before, the best time, the best time to get all those jobs is when you go on vacation, right? Laya: Yup, yes. Anne: So when you inform your potential clients of bookout dates, then hopefully they'll see that as an opportunity to get in touch with you before you go on vacation, right? And hire you then, and have an idea that you're going to be away from, I don't know, this date to this date, or maybe a day here, a day there, and allows them to, number one, because we're sending that email saying, hey, happy summer, just to let you know, I'm going to be booked out from this date to this date. And then it keeps us top of mind. Laya: Yes. Anne: So not only are we informing our potential clients when we might be gone, but we're also keeping ourselves top of mind with them by sending that email out and saying, by the way, I'm going to be booked out, happy summer, keep sending those auditions. I love it. So that is one thing that I will do is send out periodic emails, saying happy summer, you know, whatever, here's the newest job that I just did. And keep sending those auditions. I'll be booked out from this date to this date. Laya: Yes, it's a great way. In fact, I just did that. And as a result, just like you said, it gave my, a few of my clients the foresight and the opportunity to say, hold on, you're here until when? Anne: Yup. Laya: Let me get to two or three of these things. You think you can knock them out before? Yeah. Will you have your rig? You know, a few of my managers came back and said, wait, wait, wait. You know, when it is like a hard date out and can you still be available? Anne: Yup. Laya: So it opens up the conversation and it lets -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- your partners know what your boundaries are, but also gives them an opportunity to flex and maybe book you early or have something waiting for you when you come back, you can't beat that. Right? So the -- Anne: Right? So important to let your agents know when you are -- I cannot tell you how many times, like, my agent or I've heard of stories about agents that, you know, they have a great audition. They send to you, and you don't respond because you're on vacation. And it's one of those things that the agents, please just let me know when you're going to be away, when you're going to be back, what's your availability, because that's something they need to communicate to the client too. So you are working together as a partner with that agent. Laya: Yes. Anne: And so when you go away, they kind of need to know they need to know these things. Laya: How -- absolutely right. How far in advance do you let your partners or your agents know? Anne: As soon as I know, actually that I'm going to be gone. Laya: Really? Anne: I'll just send an email and then yeah. And then I'll also send them, you know, probably a week in advance, I will just say, hey, by the way, just wanted to remind you that I'll be out from this date to this date. Laya: Yeah, that's a good practice. Anne: And that gives them kind of a heads up. Yeah. So, because if I don't, as soon as I know, that just becomes like, oh, on my task list of to-do's, you know, is let everybody know I'm going to be out, prepare that email that I'm going to send to my potential clients that says here's my bookout dates. And then, especially to my agents, I send that right away. And then I'll remember a week before, because I always set my email too. Well, it depends. Sometimes I set my email to be on vacation. And sometimes I don't. Really depends on how I'm feeling the jobs are flowing in or not. Laya: Or what kind of vacation you're going on. Right? Anne: Yeah, exactly. If it's, you know, if it's a weekend or if it's, you know, a few days, I'm not going to do that. But if it's longer than that, I may set up my vacation email. And within that vacation email, just say for important, you know, contact me here or whatever it is. So. Laya: Yes. And I also love to put it in my signature. Anne: Yeah. Oh! Laya: So I'm like you. Anne: That's a good idea. Laya: Yeah. I don't give so such a long lead time because I feel like I might get lost in the shuffle, but about two weeks out, I'll let people know. And then I'll go in with an individual email to, you know, managers, agents -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- clients that are in the mix in the moment and say, hey, just by the way. And then about a week and a half, maybe two weeks out, I include it in my signature, an out of office or out of studio dates, just as an asterisk in the bottom of my signature. Anne: Good idea. Laya: I find that to be helpful. Anne: I like that. Laya: And then even a couple of days out, I will send an auto response to some of my -- it depends again on the type of vacation we're taking, but certainly for this upcoming one. Just keep in mind. Thank you for your email. I'll respond to you shortly. Again, just a reminder, I will be out of a studio from this date to this date. You'll -- I'll, you know, reply momentarily with this current thing before I go or something along those lines, you know? So, so you're really just kind of, another reminder. It just helps so much. I don't think anyone's going to feel like that's a nag. You're helping them to be more available and more accessible. And that's really the name of the game. Right? Anne: So I do know people that actually go on vacation, and they do not bring the rig. Laya: Yes, I am so proud of those people. I want to be one of those people. Anne: Well, I think in that, there's different reasons for that. Laya: Sure. Anne: And actually I have such respect for people that do that because they know their boundaries. Right? Laya: Same. Anne: And they're like, look, I'm on vacation. And that's that. In a lot of ways, it's like, they're confident that, you know, what, if you really want me, you'll be there when I come back. Laya: Yes, and I love that too. Anne: That's a great feeling. That's a great, confident way to manifest. Hey, that's okay. Uh, my vacation is important to me in my, and to be able to reset my creativity. I believe that that's a big thing to be, able to reset, refresh. I mean, that's why we go on vacations, right? Laya: Yeah. Anne: Have you ever gone on a vacation when you come back and you're like, oh, I need a vacation from my vacation? Laya: From the vacation, yes. I actually set those boundaries up on the weekend. I feel like I don't work. Anne: On the weekends. Laya: You know, after about 6:00 on Fridays 'til 8:00 AM on Monday, I take those breaks seriously. I almost never schedule anything work related on those weekends -- Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: -- so I can give that time to myself and my family. So I do feel like I get the recharge on a regular basis, but of course we need a nicer chunk. So I'll take one vacation a year. And even if it's just a few days where I'm fully checked out -- now I try to build those around seasonal shifts in the industry. Let's talk about that. Anne: Sure, yeah. Laya: Like the best time to vacation without your gear. Is there a time annually or seasonally? Anne: I, you know, that's a really good question because I think in all the years that I've been in this business, you think that a particular time is slow, but then for whatever reason, you'll just all of a sudden become crazy busy. So it's never been consistent for me, except between Christmas and New Year's, if I can say that, the holidays, or -- you know what I mean? The December, January months, I feel that between those two is the time where I feel most people are taking time away from their jobs. Laya: Sure. Anne: And so, but that's a short period of time. That's like a week. Do you know what I mean? Laya: Yeah, it really is. Anne: You know? Laya: It's almost like the last two weeks of December -- Anne: Yup, of the year. Laya: -- is a kind of a shutdown. On the flip side of that though, there are a lot of like fast tracking of campaigns -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- that need to get to market or Black Friday deals or last minute commercials -- Anne: The first of the year. Laya: -- especially in commercial space. Anne: Yes. Laya: And I think probably in promos too, that can be hit or miss, but I fully agree with you on that. I think it used to be where like June, when school was out -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- was kind of slow or, or around those big 4th of July weekend type of the -- Memorial Day, the Labor Day weekends. But what I noticed what happened during the pandemic was because so many of us were shut down and home -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and travel was definitely sloughed off, those holes, the slow periods -- Anne: They changed. Laya: -- they never slowed down. Anne: Yeah. Laya: Yeah. Anne: Oh my gosh. Laya: They really didn't. Anne: Absolutely. They, and I think it might've changed it from now on. I really believe that -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- we've kind of changed our lifestyle a little bit, or I don't know really quite how to term it, but I think there's a lot more online advertising than ever before. And I think that's -- Laya: Yes, it's moving so fast. Anne: Moving fast, and there's just no time for rest. Whereas before I thought there was certain times, certain seasons, but I'll tell you, lately, I don't think there is much, much time. Laya: There's no off season. Right? In voiceover, which is a blessing and a curse. Anne: Yup. Laya: And I'm with you that we need to focus and give ourselves some boundaries. I wish we could be in the four day work week. I think society as a whole has -- Anne: That would be great. Laya: -- has over busied themselves. Anne: I'm totally there. Laya: The productivity is like, it's like never enough, which is a shame, which is why I kind of put parameters around my own weekends or my business hours and things like that. That helps me get a grip. Sure, there'll be some occasions that you can't always work in that, in that way. But again, like we were saying about the four-day weekends, those seem to be pretty solid or at least more forgiving -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- among the client and the deadline demands, or even I see like Friday afternoons get real light. And most of the stuff that comes in even Friday morning -- Anne: Yes, yes. Laya: -- it's like, you can get it to me on Monday. Anne: Yup. Laya: And that seems to give a wider berth -- Anne: Agreed, agreed. Laya: -- or more of the four-day feel to your weekend. Anne: Now -- Laya: Or at least a three feels sometimes. Anne: I'll tell you what, I am, but I'm guilty. I am guilty of not having a four -- I wish I could have a four day work week. Right now, I'm a little bit on the busy side, not just for voiceover, but because I do different things, right? I -- Laya: True. Anne: -- I do this podcast. And so there are certain things that I don't necessarily have time for during the week that get pushed to the weekend. Laya: I agree with that. Anne: And so I am working right now more like six days a week, rather than, you know, I try to take my Sundays off. And so for that, you know, but I've got a plan. And so the plan in my mind is, you know, at some point I am going to retire. And so I'm working and shaping my business so that I can have a comfortable retirement. Laya: Yes. Anne: And so therefore I'm building parts of my business that I feel will be able to help me achieve that goal of not having to worry about money when I am retired. And then I can, I have like all the time in the world to travel the world and enjoy, because I'm a really great person to go on vacation and just be on vacation. I can -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- I'm all or nothing. That's kind of my personality, an all or nothing thing. So I'm either all in work, right, and then kind of like maybe a little bit dull at the playtime, although I don't like to think I'm dull, but when I, when I relax -- Laya: You're not dull. Anne: When I relax, I relax. Laya: Good. Anne: And that to me is an amazing thing. Laya: It's important. Anne: So now we both kind of admitted that we take our, we take our rigs. Laya: I take my rig, I'll admit it. I love it. I love what we do. So it's not work for me. It's like I get to do this. And I think to your point about working six days a week, you know what? But you love what you do. Anne: True. Laya: So how great is that? And it doesn't feel like work, but of course you got to give your throat or your vocal cords -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- your energy some rest too. So, okay. Let's talk about traveling, traveling with these rigs. Anne: Traveling with the rig. 416, for sure. 416, for sure. And I will say that so always, always has been and look, I tried them all. They're cute. I tried the, you know, the Apogee mic. I tried all the little, you know, cute small things. Oh, it's travel. So I want it to be travel-sized, and I could never get it to sound, right, the travel booth, maybe that, that little thing that fits over your microphone that, you know, would give you a, then we give you an acoustic kind of barrier. So it would sound good. No, that didn't work. Laya: No, no. Anne: And honestly -- Laya: Nothing's going to sound good like the 16. Anne: And my pillow fort, right? I mean the pillow fort worked well and the ironing board on top of the, you know, on top of the desk. Laya: Sure. Anne: But I will say that I fell in love with the tri-booth, and I'm going to actively endorse the tri-booth. Laya: Oh yeah? Anne: Which basically is a PVC, you know, moving blanket kind of setup rig that that actually fits in a suitcase, that is less than 50 pounds that you can check. And I love it. I got it when I was moving from one place to another, and I was renting an apartment in between, and it worked awesomely in the apartment. So for a good three months, it kept my business going. And it's wonderful. Fits in a, fits in a suitcase, it's got the rollers and everything, you can check it. And so if I go for a vacation, that's going to be a week or longer, I'm taking that thing with me. It's amazing. Doesn't mean that you can still, you know, record when the maid is in the room vacuuming or even -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- outside the door. But it really, really works amazingly well with the 416, and George Whittam creates those. It's George Whittam and Rick, Rick Wasserman. So George creates a set of stacks, a stack for you to apply, and it just makes everything just beautiful sounding, just like you were at home in your own -- Laya: Really nice. Anne: Yeah. In your own booth. So that's my plug for the tri-booth, guys. Tribooth.com. Yeah. Laya: Very cool. There was some sort of a laptop, or maybe a smaller compact version I'd seen. Always curious about them. I haven't used them myself yet, but I've certainly considered an investment in a travel booth setup that could fit in my suitcase. So I'll definitely look into George's deal because he's got, you know, his ears are finely tuned for the good stuff. But for me right now, I've been able to just work with the resources in the room, which is always a toss-up. And like I was saying to my agents earlier this week, yes, I will be available for a directed session, but you never know what screaming kid, what slamming doors -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- what cleaning service is doing in the room at any given time. And you may be off time zones, et cetera, or your own schedule. So it's very hard to plan for that, but I think the 416 gets you there, and it sounds beautiful -- Anne: Oh yeah, absolutely. Laya: -- in kind of all of those makeshift ways, you know? So I take mine with me for sure. Anne: I, you know, I am going to, I just mentioned to you, I said, tri-booth. That's how they call it, the tri-booth, but if you want more information, it's tribooth.com and I'll have that link. And the cool thing about the tri-booth, just, just a notation is that you stand up in it, and that really, it gives you the freedom to like, just perform. Whereas before, when I used to huddle myself under, you know, under the comforter, under the -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- the ironing board and, you know, the pillow fort, sometimes it got really uncomfortable, you know? Laya: Sure. You contort yourself in these ways. Anne: At some point I was on my stomach, right? And I'm trying to like, you know, execute breathing when it's just not natural necessarily coming from that position. So the cool thing is that you can stand up, but it is something like if I were just going away for a weekend, like, and you didn't want to check any luggage that maybe not be your, I'll go back to that pillow fort slash ironing board, but any vacation, yeah -- Laya: Sure, traveling lightly. Anne: -- that I'm going for more than a few days, I'm bringing it because it's pretty amazing. So that's now my travel rig -- Laya: I love that. Anne: -- and trust me, I've tried it all. And I think any of you that want to consider travel rigs, or you're new to the industry, just do a Google search for travel VO booth, or travel rig voiceover, and you'll get all sorts of really fun ideas -- Laya: Very cool. Anne: -- that people use. Laya: What do you use -- I got to ask, what do you use to mount your 416 or your boom arm or your, uh, your tripod? I found a really cool hand -- it's almost, fits in the palm of your hand. It's a little tripod mic stand that fits the 416 mount perfectly. And it is tiny. It was $10 on Amazon. I can't believe -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- that I'm putting a 416 on a $10 stand, but for travel, it's been working for me. I might have to send you a link. Anne: You know what, BOSSes, we'll put the link in our notes on the webpage -- Laya: Oh, cool. Anne: -- because I also have something from Amazon that I have. It's like a fully contained, like, stand that you can put your phone on. You can flip your phone on -- Laya: Very cool. Anne: -- so you can read your, your scripts as well as the, put the 416 in. With the tri-booth, they actually have an arm that you can mount your 416 on. So it's built in there, comes with -- Laya: Very cool. Anne: -- yeah, it comes with it. So it's really cool. So we'll put all those links at the end on our page. So very cool. Laya: Now, Anne, I have another question for you when it comes to travel, if you are traveling and working, is it now a work trip? Is it a tax write-off? Is there anything we can do to massage that because you are working? You're doing some of that business negotiation and maybe meeting with clients? Anne: Absolutely. Laya: How does that work for you? Anne: Absolutely. It is. I mean, anything that I might have to purchase, you know, travel-wise equipment wise for working while I'm on the road, absolutely is a write-off. And any time that I might spend, if I'm happen to be in a specific area where I have to, I don't know, maybe I have to go into a studio, I've actually done that as well. Laya: Yeah. Anne: Sometimes I've gone to Vegas and chosen to go to some lovely studios there in Vegas that we all know and love, and that has been a write-off as well. So I believe whatever you can write off while you're working on vacation, absolutely do. Laya: Well, you made a great point there about booking studio time in the city that you're going. What a, win-win. Not only are you getting to experience a new studio, but you're giving that studio business -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- thus making the relationship between you as talent and showing them your level of professionalism or your performance, or what have you -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- deepening a personal one-on-one relationship with that studio, that engineer, whoever it is on the other side, and creating a bond or making a new connection. Anne: Yeah. Laya: So you're winning with the client, with your project, with yourself, with your time, with your back crammed into a little hole. Anne: And you know, yeah. Laya: And you've got that awesome opportunity to, uh, yeah. Anne: You don't have to worry at that point about what your environment's going to be like. Is your audio going to be good? Is it, you know, you're gonna have to worry about the maid that's vacuuming -- Laya: Exactly. Anne: -- outside the door or -- Laya: No stress -- Anne: -- the air conditioning system that you have no control over that, you know, kicks on in the middle of it all. So yeah, there is always that. I think before you go on a trip, it's always a good idea to research area studios -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- and, you know, check them out to see what their availability and their services are, because maybe you'll need to SourceConnect or ipDTL to a studio while you're there. And, uh, you know, just kind of confirm all of those capabilities, introduce yourself. And it's always good, like you said, to, you know, make those connections. Laya: Yeah. You never know what those will turn into. So, uh, I have yet to find one where I'm going on my next destination, off to Maui next week. So I'll be off with my rig. Anne: I'm jealous. Laya: Before I go, I'm going to look into those, uh, those travel setups, because I think that would make life a lot easier. Anne: For sure. For sure. Wow. Good conversation, VO on the road. Two of us admitting that yeah, we take our rigs on the road all the time. Laya: I take it, I take it. Anne: And I aspire to go on that vacation where I say, no, I'm sorry, I'm on vacation, so you'll wait for me for when I come back. But that's cool. It's all good. As you mentioned, I mean, we love what we do. So I mean -- Laya: Exactly. Anne: -- if it's not going to take away every single moment of my vacation, I'm more than happy to bring it along and, you know, help fund fun things that we might do on vacation. Laya: Exactly. It helps pay for the vacation. If you think of it that way, that's the modern mindset approach. If you're flipping the script on that. Anne: And a write-off. Laya: Exactly. And how to apply it financially. Anne: There you go. Laya: So no matter how you VO on the road, think about these opportunities. I think, uh, you never know how it could play out in the best way for your business. Right? Anne: Absolutely. VO on the road. All right, Laya, another excellent conversation. Laya: Thanks, Anne. You too. Good one. Anne: You guys, if you are going on vacation, enjoy that vacation. If you've got a travel rig, take it. Don't use it too much. Make sure you're, you're going there and refreshing your creativity, but hey, don't miss up on those opportunities. And BOSSes, a big shout-out to our sponsor ipDTL that does allow us to connect even on vacation -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week. Have an amazing vacation, Laya, I'm jealous. Laya: Thank you, yes. Anne: Yeah. And we'll see you when you get back. Laya: All right. Anne: Bye-Bye. Laya: Bye-Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

What if you could perform beyond the limitations of your own voice? Anne is joined by special guest Alex Serdiuk for a bonus Voice and Ai episode. They discuss Respeecher’s speech-to-speech technology, the limitations of your natural voice, and how a synthesized voice is similar to a printing press. The future isn’t just on its way - the future is here - and creative possibilities are endless when human voices and technology work together...  

Do you have the courage to invest in yourself? In this episode, Anne and Laya share how they built their dream booths and how you can too! From soundproofing to equipment, they cover picking the right recording space, investing in quality materials & technology, and taking that financial leap of faith to up your bookability + professionalism like a #VOBOSS! Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today, and for the last few sessions, I have been so happy to be co-hosting with special guest Laya Hoffman. Laya! How are you? Laya: Hi. I'm so good, Anne. Loving this, and we've got more cool stuff to talk about. I feel like I could talk to you for hours and hours. Anne: I know. Right? Well, speaking of which, you know, I met you, Laya, when I first met you, I actually didn't meet you. I saw an amazing booth tour of your new booth. Laya: Oh yeah. Anne: Now I think you had just moved, and you built a booth -- is it downstairs? Laya: Yes, I would -- I would like to say it's an entire studio, if I may, because -- Anne: Yes, you built an entire studio. Yes, you did. Laya: It was a dream come true. Let me tell you, and it's because I came out of a booth, but we can go even further back then. Anne: I was so impressed. Laya: Thank you. Anne: I was so impressed with your booth tour that I thought, oh my gosh, that is like the coolest video booth tour I've ever seen. Laya: Thank you. Anne: And I absolutely loved your space. And you were sharing that space also with your daughter doing your podcast. And I just, I reached out to you, and that's basically how we met. And I'm so glad that we did, because now here we are doing a podcast series, so I'm absolutely loving it. And I thought let's talk about our booths because we've had some really wonderful experiences in building our booths. And I'll tell you what, my booth experiences, they've just been an evolution of my business, and coming from, you know, being in the closet -- and there's nothing wrong with recording in your closet. It's all about, you know, the sound that you're getting, but I'll tell you what, there's something to be said for graduating to a booth that's kind of like a custom beautiful place that you can sit -- Laya: It's a big girl booth. Anne: Yeah, a big girl booth, I love it -- when you can sit and just do what you love. And I just absolutely love my new booth. Let's talk about our booths 'cause we're booth babes. Let's do it. Laya: Booth babes. I love it. Yes. The modern mindset is to create space that you feel good in. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And so to be, whether it is your closet or your you've created a new studio, or you've got a custom booth or a Whisper Room or any one of those things, a Studio Bricks, there's so many beautiful options out there. No matter what space you're working in, I think it's important to just feel good in this space. So like you said. Anne: Agreed. Laya: You know, no matter where you are in the stage of your career or your journey, as long as you feel good there, and there's something that connects you to your surroundings and your atmosphere, that's when you're going to feel your best and to deliver your best. Exactly. Anne: And you know what's so interesting is I've been through a few booths. I don't mean that to like, oh, I got one booth after the next, after the next, but one of my first actual booth-booths instead of being in my closet was built by my dad. And there's something to be said -- Laya: That's awesome. Anne: -- about being in a space that you feel good about. My dad built me that booth out of love. Laya: Yes! Anne: I mean, my dad has always supported me, never once asked me a question about what I was doing. He didn't necessarily understand voiceover, but when I said, Dad, I need to build a booth. That gives me some good sound. And so my dad was like, okay, let's do it. And my dad bought me this booth. And every time I stepped in that booth, and I'm going to get a little bit like probably teary because I just felt his love every single time. Laya: Yes. Anne: And I, I used that for years. Laya: That's so beautiful. Anne: I used that booth for years and every time I stepped in there, I felt my dad's love and confidence in me and just his support. And it was a wonderful, wonderful thing. And I'll tell you about -- Laya: What a beautiful experience for you. Anne: Yeah. And with my new booth, I also made sure because now he's older, I also made sure that he was involved in the booth, and he was here for the building of this booth too, which I'm so, so proud of. Laya: I bet he took great pride in that, you know, so doing something with his hands that he could create to give his daughter this gift is so beautiful, Anne. Good for you. What a nice story. Anne: It is, it is awesome. Laya: I have a different story, but -- Anne: That's what -- let's hear it. Let's hear it. I'm ready. Laya: We moved into a new house a few years ago, and we're in the northwest suburbs here of Atlanta. And, uh, the basement was unfinished. So, you know, when basements are unfinished and weird, there's like cement, dusty floors and two by fours and insulation that's just like rotting off the walls? Yeah. It's just full of probably terrible pollutants. Well, that was my first booth. Um, we call it Skid Row studios. I used a bunch of mattresses. Anne: I love it. Oh my gosh, you had mattresses. I love it. Laya: It was a mattress factory booth. It was disgusting. I'm not proud of the mites and the weirdness that I was probably consuming in that box. But you know, that just goes to show you work with what you got, you know, and if you really love this work, and you can get through that, you can carry on through and have a pretty solid career, I'm pretty sure. If that didn't break me, that mattress factory Skid Row studio. Anne: Skid Row studio. Laya: It really was. That was my first studio. And then after that, I invested in a custom booth, and I won't even give the brand because unfortunately this situation was a super negative one for me, and the booth arrived on a pallet. You know, you can imagine how excited you are. You invested -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- this giant chunk of change in your business. It was like my last dollar, but I knew that the space was not secure -- Anne: Yeah, sure. Laya: -- and it wasn't healthy to be in that space for me. And my daughter was working with me at the time. So, you know, she's six years old. I didn't want to breathing her all of that and making the experience less than enjoyable. So I invested, and this thing came on a pallet as they do broken into a million pieces. Anne: Oh man. Laya: And so it was really, I can't even tell you how my heart sunk into my stomach. Anne: Yeah, I bet. Laya: Like, was this a bad decision for my business? I mean, we, uh, gosh, it really almost broke me, but it was that learning experience of building it back together, dealing with the manufacturer, who's not kind, and it was really unfortunate to make me realize, like, I do really want this, and I'm going to work towards creating space one day that I can achieve that feels good. Anne: Oh yeah, and that you are deserving of. Laya: And is every bit the essence. Anne: Right? You absolutely -- that was my big thing is when I built the studio, what well, both studios, it was, it was a space that I was deserving of, you know, and a space that I needed, and I needed to be able to feel good to perform well. And that was a huge part. Laya: And making the investment sometimes, while it seems like a bit of a gut punch, especially if you don't have it, it all goes back to the mindset of building your voiceover business, right? Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: You have to invest and you have to spend the money to make the money. Anne: True. Laya: And in a way that was my brick and mortar investment, right? Which, I didn't have a storefront and didn't have to create a shop, buy a bunch of merchandise. My business was that space. And so making that investment, while I just knew it would pay off eventually, but it had to feel right around me to get there. Anne: Oh yes. Laya: And that gave me the confidence to continue on. And now here we are, we're in a custom-made studio, and I couldn't be more proud of this space. So, and feel, feel, I couldn't feel more amazing in here too. Anne: Oh yeah, yeah. Laya: So yeah, let's get into that. Anne: Well, so I'll tell you about, I'll go back to my first built booth. I mean, because I, you know, I, myself was in -- I was in a closet, and it was a, it was a closet that was like a storage closet. And what I didn't realize, I thought, well, everybody, you know, everybody starts in their closet. It wasn't a clothes closet. Right? So there were a lot of hard surfaces. And in my early years, I don't know anything about sound or, you know, creating a good space for, for my recording. And so, no matter what I did, had carpet in there, I tried to hang blankets, no matter what I did, it sounded horrible. And so ultimately that was when I talked to my dad and I said, Dad, I need a space. And he built it. And it just was wonderful. And I will, I'm going to give a big plug for George Whittam, who was an amazing help, who helped us really kick that up another notch and make it sound amazing. And that was just, it was a homemade booth. You know, we went and got lumber and drywall, and at the time we had installation. We didn't use Rockwool, but George was able to help us really add panels that had Rockwool in it and make things sound really amazing and also give me a set of filters, you know, that always helps. Laya: Presets, yeah. Anne: I always recommend presets, get those stacks to, to really just make that sound amazing. And it was a wonderful thing. I've got it all documented. I'll put links, you know, on our page so you guys can see it links with the materials we used. But this past couple of years, when I moved, I had an extra office space, and I too had almost come to the decision where I was going to order a pre-built booth. And it was going to be very expensive. It was going to take a long time to get to me. And I, you know, was kind of going back and forth between, should I get this pre-built booth because I want to make sure my house is, you know, resale, I'm already thinking resale, even though I haven't moved into it yet, but I'm thinking -- Laya: Yeah, you have to think about that, for sure. Anne: -- I don't want to build a booth in my house because it might affect resale value. So I'm thinking pre-built booth. And then by the time -- Laya: And you can take it with you, right, if you, if you were to move. You could break it down, you know, and that's great, great theory. Anne: But I was floored, I was floored by the expense -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- of the booths. Laya: Yes. Anne: And then I thought, gosh, I'm going to have to hire somebody to install it for me. And then, and then I came to find out that yet you needed to add stuff on the inside of the booth. And I'm like -- for voiceover, then there was a whole other thing where, oh, okay. So then I've got to treat it. And I think that's the case with a lot of prebuilt booths where people don't always realize that you, sometimes you do have to add to the inside of that booth -- Laya: Oh yes, oh yes. Anne: -- to make it an acoustic space that is, you know, worthy. And then I ended up just looking around thinking, what else can I do? Because this just seems, there's no guaranteed date as to when it's going to get there. And I need to be able to continue my work. You know, in the meantime, I'm in an apartment or a rental, you know, until my house, my house was being built, until it was ready. And I thought, I just, there's no way to guarantee the delivery on a certain day without having to wait a whole long time. And I said, let's look into a custom built booth. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And I contacted a good friend of mine. And I think someone that you also know, and -- Laya: Drumroll, please. Anne: -- everybody loves, Mr. Tim Tippets, who -- Laya: Tim Tippets. Anne: -- was just an amazing, amazing instrument in creating the space that I have now. And I absolutely love it. From start to finish, he helped me design it. He actually came here and literally he left the day or the day before lockdown in California. Laya: I remember that. I remember watching that unfold on social media -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and thought, I mean, he's my audio angel also. Anne: Isn't he, right? Laya: I have a heart for, for Tim. Anne: Yep. Laya: And the fact that he kind of brought us together. Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. Laya: I watched that whole build go down. You guys did an amazing job -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- of tracking it in real time. Anne: Yup. Laya: And just how many hands were involved in the process -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and the complexity of building a studio into the walls, into the fabric of your home. It really takes it to a different level. And there are so many nuances, right? Anne: Well, yeah, absolutely. Laya: So it was fascinating to see your process. I loved it. Anne: And you know, what's really cool is that it's not really built into the room. It's actually a booth within the room. Laya: Okay, cool. Anne: So it just looks like it's a part of the room, which is really a really cool thing. So if I ever moved from here, all I've got to do is take down a couple of the walls, and I've not really destroyed. I mean, the walls that he's put up around this booth. Laya: Oh, that's so cool. I didn't realize that. Anne: So, yeah, so I haven't destroyed, yeah, I haven't destroyed any of the original construction, which is -- Laya: Very cool. Anne: -- really cool. And you, again, I've got an extensive blog on that creation and how wonderful it was. We -- it did take at least three to five people on a day-to-day basis, and it is perfectly custom built, and it actually ended up being more efficient cost-wise than a prebuilt. Believe it or not. Laya: It's kind of -- no, I believe it. I believe it wholeheartedly in fact. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: I had a similar experience with mine, so it's nice to hear that you felt the same way too, because I think the misconception can be, if you build a studio space in your home or a booth within a room situation like you did, oh, it's gotta be totally crazy expensive. Or you get all these crazy quotes from contractors -- Anne: Exactly. Laya: -- who might be considering what it takes to build a theater room, which is acoustically very different -- Anne: Oh yeah, absolutely. Laya: -- than a voiceover specific room. Anne: And I'm not saying that in all instances, is it going to be cheaper than this or -- that really depends on what booths you're looking at, but I will say -- Laya: Know what you're using, yeah. Anne: -- completely customized to me. Laya: Yeah. Anne: I don't think I could have gotten a pre-built booth that was custom the way this is. Like, literally they measured like how tall I was to where to mount the monitor, the height of the desk, where to put the electrical, understanding where I'm putting lighting, just amazing. I have two mics in here and the third mic outside of the booth, just connecting everything. There's no way I could have gotten something equivalent with a prebuilt situation. Laya: Yeah, yeah. Anne: And for that, I am eternally grateful, and I just, I come in this booth and I love it. I love it. And my father, he's so funny because my father, it -- this actually has -- it's double-walled, right? Green-glued, Rockwool everywhere and Rockwool panels. Laya: Same, same. Anne: And it's got two doors. So not just one. I'm all proud of the fact that I have two doors to get into this booth. And my father, love him, love him, love him. He was like, okay, it's -- their actual, you know, like doors that you would use -- Laya: Solid core doors, solid core. Anne: -- like solid core doors. And they have a lock on them. And my father's like, no, you will take that lock out because we don't want Anne to ever, you know, possibly lock herself in, or, you know, God forbid, somebody, you know what I mean? God forbid somebody breaks in the house in -- Laya: Yeah, you gotta think about the safetiness. Sure. Anne: Oh, he's all about my safety. And he was just adamant. So we -- Laya: I love your dad. Anne: I know! We had to remove the locks. Laya: Never met him, I love him. Anne: So there's no way I can lock myself in the booth. And I have had that issue. I've read other people who've had the issue where they've locked them -- what if something happened? I mean, God forbid, I, you know, faint in the booth, and you know, nobody can get to me because it's locked. So, you know, my dad was stickler for that. And really it was lovely having him here the whole time with the crew and overseeing things. It was really lovely. Laya: Awesome. Anne: And I just, I cannot say enough wonderful things about Tim and Tim's crew who helped me to build this amazing, completely custom booth. So. Laya: Well, I had a similar experience, but very different, and of course a different outcome, but I have the same sentiment. I walk into this space every day, and I get to share it with my daughter -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- which is also a gift. And it just pulls out this most creative, amazing feeling of love and excitement and pride for the work that we do and how far we've come doing this work. And yes, it was an investment and yes, I had that booth, but the booth always, because of how the situation was handled, always had this air of negativity -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- a bit of regret and resentment. And I could feel that energetically. And so I knew that when we remodeled our, when we finished our basement rather, that we had always planned to create space where I could work. And while I also thought about resell value and things like that, the way we built it will be ideal for the next person to create their studio or their office or their gym in, um, that kind of keeps the sound contained. As you know, there's so much work from home now. Anne: Yeah. Laya: This will create the perfect space for someone else to create their office in, in the future. But we have no plans to do that for a long time. But we worked with our general contractor who initially, like I said, had the thought that, oh, you just build it like a movie theater. You know, we'll throw up some, uh, audio seal sound barrier on the wall -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and then we'll, you know, play over it. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Anne: And they always want that, that soundproof drywall, which is not what you want actually. Laya: Right, not what you want. Anne: There's that -- the stuff they sell at Lowe's. And I think they call it soundproof or I forget what kind of drywall they call it, but it's very heavy -- Laya: Yup. Anne: -- and it's not what you need for a booth. Laya: And so of course, I got my audio angel involved in -- Anne: Yes, Tim. Laya: -- again, this is in the height of the pandemic. And so Tim Tippets, we consulted virtually. We did an initial run through, and this was new for him. Of course he wanted to be hands on like he was for yours. Anne: Oh, he's so passionate. Laya: And you got to love that. Anne: Gosh. Laya: This was on the heels of your booth. We think we built in November. And so we were doing some consults, and I would show him the schematics. And luckily I was working with a designer on the entire basement space. So this was just a portion of it, which, and it was twofold positive because I got to write off a portion of our construction bill -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and supplies on the studio and roll that into the cost of, of the overall build and renovation. So that was a plus, but Tim really worked with us to make sure my contractor knew -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- firsthand what the right supplies were, you know, using Rockwool -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- using Green Glue -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- making sure to create that space in between the dry wall -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- double layered walls, et cetera. The ceiling is even double layered. We were very clear about, I even have a solid core wood door, just one, but it's doing the trick, and a triple-paned glass window. Anne: Oh yes, nice. Laya: So I don't feel claustrophobic in here. I can see from a safety perspective, et cetera. And so that's been a blessing, but then we took it a bunch of steps further just because I had supplies, and we were creating the space for a multitude of reasons. We were of course doing voiceover work. So there's a specific corner in the room that has our yellow tack mic and boom arms. And I can sit at the desk and have this dead dead sound in the corner. And then the other side, which is the podcasting based, more of a lounge, it's able to be both acoustically and aesthetically sound so that I can film the show on camera. Anne: Yup, yup. Laya: And it's a beautiful lounge. Anne: Beautiful. Laya: Thank you so much and colorful -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- so it invokes creativity and sparks joy. And, uh, my daughter feels like this is just as much her space. In fact, she had a hand in picking everything from the colors of the acoustic panels to the couch and the Dalmatian print floor. Anne: So let's -- let's talk a bit about the famous acoustic panels that are Tim Tippets'. Laya: Yes! Anne: He's got that amazing DYI, YouTube videos -- Laya: He does. Anne: -- and I'll tell you what, and I've purchased acoustic panels before, and they're expensive. Laya: They are. Anne: And the way that Tim makes these panels, it's amazing, number one. I have throughout my booth and my room, I have 27 of Tim's custom panels. Laya: Yup. Anne: 27. Which is -- Laya: That is an obscene amount. Anne: It's obscene. Laya: But I feel like I have a lot as well. Anne: But I have a big room too. Laya: I love them. Yeah. Well pad -- padded rooms, you know, I feel safe in here. It's kind of nice. And I love his build. I, before I knew about Tim's build, I had -- and in here in our backyard in Atlanta, GIK Acoustics is in our neck of the woods, and I had purchased six panels for my four by six standalone booth. Because as you mentioned earlier, it's not good enough to have this double wall expensive custom booth. You also got to get the panels in there -- Anne: Yup, yup. Laya: -- and the foam, if you like. Anne: Exactly. Laya: I mean, whatever. So we put all that back in the room, and then I was also got really lucky. Otherwise I too would have built Tim's panels, but a good friend of mine that owns a nearby studio here was offloading some Wenger acoustic panels. They're huge. I mean, I think I have a two on the ceiling, two cloud floats. They're six foot by three foot, to give you some idea. Anne: Wow, that's great. Laya: And they are huge. Um, we recovered them, made them our own, and popped them up on the wall for fairly inexpensive because -- Anne: Excellent. Laya: -- I bought them used, you know, so you gotta do what you can do, but I love those resources Tim's made available. Anne: We, we were like a panel making shop out in the garage. Laya: Yes. Oh yeah. Anne: And you know, one thing that I'll -- I'll mention that I did not realize is that Tim is such a stickler for detail. I mean, every single part, like you could just see him on a day-to-day basis. Like just everything going on in his head, like calculating the most perfect sound to come out of -- Laya: The guy's a machine. Totally. Anne: He is -- he -- now, and I never realized this, but I have four inch thick panels. Laya: Yeah, same here. Anne: Now when I purchased my panels, yeah, when I purchased my panels before I had just purchased two inches, not thinking anything of it, like, do I need thicker? But he explained so very nicely to me why the four inches and plus he, he puts them -- Laya: Right, the air flow in the back. Right? You gotta have that. Anne: Exactly. He's got air flow in the back, which I never realized. And all of these little tiny details, which really make a huge, huge difference when you're in my booth. Laya: And it defines the sound, right? And so when we all -- we like to talk about having broadcast quality sound. Sure, sure. Here. Who knows what the barometer for that really is when it comes to home studios or your noise floor, but he was able to, and again, he wasn't onsite, but because of the way I was able to generate the 3d cads -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- we actually had the design team take the size specs of my acoustic panels. I was very concerned about it because I was like, these things are huge. Anne: Yeah. Laya: If we put them in the walls and mount them up or I get the placement wrong -- Anne: You've lost all this space. Laya: Oh my gosh. Right. And then how do you configure furniture? I must have racked my brain about that for forever. But Tim explained it in very simple terms as he does -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- um, for the acoustically challenged and, um, help you really maximize the space. And it sounds pristine because of it. And so I'm so grateful for that knowledge -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and his support. Yeah. Anne: And I will say again, this podcast is been renamed to the Tim Tippets love fest. Laya: So he does not need to be -- how does he go anywhere? Anne: Honestly, he is probably one of the best teachers, right? Not only is he amazing at creating an acoustic space, but he also can teach you, like you said, he explains it to you in layman's terms -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- so that it makes it easy to understand. And I really had such an education watching this booth go up with Tim and just understanding. And so I just, again, you know, kudos and, and just so grateful for Tim and his help for this booth. And I don't ever need another booth. I mean, unless of course I'm going to move again. Laya: I'm not going anywhere. Anne: But I am so happy. I am so happy in this space. And there's so much to be said for being happy in this space. You know, my father had a hand in it and Tim was just wonderful. And that just makes a huge difference because we spend a lot of time here. So you, you know, one of the modern mindset is that you, as a talent, as a creative, as an artist, you deserve a space in which you feel amazing in. Laya: Yeah, so you can give the best possible performance. Anne: Make that investment, you know, and it's, and it may be hard. I understand. There's so many people that get into this industry and they're like, yeah, but this is so expensive. Or this, that is so expensive. I think, you know, BOSSes, we need to keep in mind that this is a business, there are investments to be made. And they're not necessarily like while you can get away with a pillow fort and an ironing board and a, and a comforter, you know, ultimately in the long run you make a good investment. Had I realized, you know, so many years ago when we were talking about our VO-to-go travel rigs, that I should have just gotten a 416. I spent so much money on all those cute little other mics that I couldn't make sound good. Same thing. I think I graduated into this custom built booth, but I absolutely, it was the right time for me. And I had come to a point in my business where I said, you know what? I deserve. I deserve a -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- an amazing booth. I deserve that. And why have I not thought about that before? I don't need to cram myself into a little space -- Laya: No. Anne: -- or, you know, into a closet if I can reinvest that money. And I think it takes courage to invest a significant amount of money into your studio. And -- Laya: It does. Anne: You know? And this pandemic of course has heightened, right, the fact that we need good spaces. Laya: Yeah. And your audio imprint is again, your brand. It is everything. So why not make it sound the best? Anne: Yeah. Laya: I've said before in a previous podcast, but my modern mindset always goes back to the fact that I'm not trying to break the bank. I'm very frugal and very aware of the spending in the investments that I'm making. For sure. However, I don't want to spend twice. And it's -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- if I get it right the first time, then that sets me up for success as far as my brand, my accountability, my audio imprint. Because if you send out crap audio in this day and age, you won't get a second listen, and you can tell the difference. And so what I do, even with the studio, even having the presets dialed in, having worked with Tim often, I will often check back in with producers that I'm close with -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and people I've worked for before and say, hey, give me an audio check real quick. I'm always tweaking. Anne: Great idea. Laya: I'm always making sure, like I am audibly standing up to the competition. And nine times out of ten, I hear your audio stands up better than most, for sure. And definitely is a clear definitive -- you can hear it. You can hear the difference. You can hear that you're a pro by the audio you deliver. And so if that is your first impression, and that's all you got, I mean, your performance could be amazing. But if the acoustics and the sound don't have the utmost clarity, then your professionalism just kind of got knocked down a notch unfortunately. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: So it is something to consider when approaching where your next steps are going -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- in your business or where you are today. Anne: It is a package. And I, and I think, yeah, I like to bring in the modern mindset philosophy here is that, you know, you are a package of your audio, your sound, the way you present yourself online, the whole thing is a package. And the whole thing makes a difference. If you are set with putting forth your brand in a very professional way. So. Laya: Yeah, it definitely affects your bookability for sure. And one of the reasons, just going back to your how we met, the reason I created -- I hired a film company that normally does tours for homes as they go to market -- Anne: Yup. Laya: You know, if you can, you can hire somebody like that. And that's exactly what I did because I knew the cost would be more effective that way. Anne: Oh my gosh. The marketing was amazing. Laya: Yeah, thank you. And then that using that video on my website, on YouTube as part of my signature -- Anne: Part of your market. Yeah. Laya: It's the audio nerds that love that stuff. It's the engineers who book you, the creatives, that book you that see that. And they're like, oh my God, this chick knows what's up. Anne: Yeah. Laya: How cool is that? Anne: Yes! Laya: And I got a lot of work just from that video. Anne: Just from that video. And the cool thing is, is that you're not necessarily like saying, hire me, hire me, voiceover. You're not doing like, hey, this is Laya. You know, this is my voice. You're actually showcasing your, your studio, and you're passionate about it and your personality. So it becomes like, you know, we talk about our podcast, right? It's like a side benefit. People get to know you through your podcast. People get to know you through your studio tour, and they get to see that personality. And they say, you know what? I want to work with her. Laya: Yeah. Anne: She knows what's going on. Laya: And your level of commitment. Anne: Yeah, exactly. Laya: Yeah, right? Anne: And so it really becomes, it becomes that whole modern mindset. The package, here I am, the deal. I'm the real deal here. So. Laya: I'm the pro with a modern minded BOSS. Right Anne? Anne: Absolutely. Laya: I love it. Thank you. Good talk. Anne: Well, this has been so much fun talking about our booths, 'cause we love them. Laya: I hope to come to your booth one day -- Anne: That's right. Laya: and I hope you can come to mine. Anne: Me too. Laya: You know, one day we'll BOSS up that way -- Anne: Me too. Laya: -- when the world opens. Anne: So BOSSes, remember you deserve, you deserve a good space. You deserve a good space. You deserve to feel -- Laya: Feel good in it. Anne: Yeah. You deserve to feel amazing in this space where you are creating and performing and being the artist that you are. So big shout-out to ipDTL who is in the booth today. You can find out more at ipdtl.com, and you guys, have an amazing week. Laya, it's been amazing as always. Thank you. Laya: Thank you for having me, Anne. Thanks, BOSSes, for listening. It was good to be back. Anne: All right, guys. See you next week. Bye-bye. Laya: See you. Bye-Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Whether you’re working a zero-inbox system or have thousands of unread emails, we’re going to teach you how to manage your email marketing like a #VOBOSS. In this episode, Anne and Laya discuss strategies for running successful email campaigns and teach you how to manage your mass communications like a total pro. From concise content creation to developing better reading and writing skills, it’s all about strengthening your marketing muscle! >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, along with my amazing special guest co-host Laya Hoffman. Laya: Hey Anne, hey BOSSes. It's great to be back. I've enjoyed our conversations, this entire sequence of modern mindset. I really appreciate being here and all you shared with me. So thanks for having me back. Anne: Yeah, so let's continue, shall we, on our modern mindset? Because our last few episodes we've talked about marketing, social media, and I think an important one to cover as well, in order to evolve, our businesses is email marketing. Laya: Yes. Anne: Like, do you do email marketing? How do you do email marketing well, in a modern way? How do you not become a spam annoying -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- person out there? So, yeah, it's very, again, with all the chaos that is out there today, everything digital flying at us, it's hard to know sometimes. Laya: It's a lot of noise. Yeah. Anne: Yeah. How do you cut through the noise? Laya: Exactly. And stay relevant, stay top of mind with your clients without kind of brow beating and being a bit of a nag and being the thing that clogs up their inbox. Because the last thing you want is them to roll their eyes when they see, you know, oh gosh, another Monday morning email from Laya Hoffman that's about her, and not anything I need. You know? I mean, that's where I'm very cognizant of. I think there was a big push maybe a couple of years ago when email marketing was at its height. And it seemed like there's still a lot of talent that subscribe to that train of thought that is like, oh, I must get content out. I must get a direct email to my list. Anne: A newsletter. Laya: I need to cultivate my newsletter. Anne: It was a thing, a newsletter to the list. Laya: And maybe it's still a thing, if you really have important quality content and information to share, that's rich for your client or your audience, like a podcast or a new episode. And you've got buy-in from the people that, that are really connected to that. Anne: Backing up. Buy-in. Laya: Okay. Buy-In. How do you even know? Anne: Let's start there. 'Cause I think, right, before we send email, we have to have a list. And before we have a list, we really honestly should get permission -- Laya: You should. Anne: -- for people to be on that. Laya: It's the law. Anne: It is the law. Laya: That's the thing. Anne: It is to be spam compliant. And I want this to be so important. If you guys get anything out of this episode, let it be that if you have permission for your clients to be on your list, that is really the optimum way of being able to communicate with your clients and your potential clients. And there's so many people out there with cold emails, and it's a lot of discussions going on in the groups and everything. And cold emailing is certainly way. However, I'm going to tell you, how do you feel -- first of all, actually, I won't tell you, I'll ask you. How do you feel when you get an uninvited email from somebody -- Laya: Gross, icky. Anne: -- that's trying to sell SEO or trying to sell, uh, you know, we can develop your web page. I get it. And I look at it and I go, hmm, I didn't ask for that. Laya: You automatically -- yeah. You automatically have a bad taste in your mouth, right? Anne: Yeah, I don't like it. Laya: That's the last thing you want from your clients, for sure. Anne: So cold emailing anything, it's just, it's a tricky, tricky business. So I want to warn people to please just be very, very cognizant of what it is that you're writing in those emails and how you're sending those emails. I tend to get people's permission before I email to them. And there's lots of different ways to do it. It's a little bit more, I would say than an advanced kind of a method to do that instead of just mining Google for production companies or owners of companies. I think that with a little bit of work and a little bit of innovative marketing of yourself, you can get people on your mailing list, and then they're not going to be angry when you email them. Laya: I tell you what I did when I first started my email list. And I dunno, there's a couple of hundred emails on there, and sure, I'm able to get that. You can sign up on my email list on my website, 'cause there's a capture there. Or if you've ever sent me a message on my website -- Anne: But that's a good thing. Right? Laya: -- on my website -- Anne: That's a good thing. Laya: Sure. You know, there's not a lot of people that are signing up on my website because I don't really have a newsletter. It's more of an inquiry -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- taken there. But what I did, I think as I started to cultivate my list of clients, I would send -- and I only send maybe an email once a quarter as mostly about bookout dates or anything, really new and relevant that may be worth sharing and provide value to them. Like, you know, the kickoff of our podcast or this podcast right here. Hey, check this out. You might find value in this. I say at the top of the message always why and how I've secured their email. You know, thank you for being a great client of mine. I've enjoyed working with you in the past. I would like to include you in this message. However, if this doesn't resonate with you, and you'd like me to remove your name in the future, please click here. That's almost like the first thing that I have communicated. And I feel like that may cross the line a little bit, but it's still asking for permission right from the jump. What do you say? Anne: Oh no, I think that's excellent. I think if you did not actually get their permission by, you know, they clicked on that -- because I actually have pop-up windows on all of my websites that say, do you want to be involved or do you want to get on my mailing list? And so there's the terms and policy that is there as well, saying that -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- by clicking this box, you agree to allow marketing, blah, blah, blah, blah. I can't remember the exact verbiage, but it's there. So if they decide to be on my mailing list, they agree that I will be able to market to them, and they will have the option to get off of that mailing list. So that's number one for me. And so for me, because I have three different brands that do three different functions, that helps me to get a lot of people on my list. If you're just doing voice talent, you're right. People are probably not running to your website and clicking, oh, sign me up. Laya: Sure. Anne: But even so the ones that do, which I think are great, anybody that might want to inquire how much it might cost you to do a particular job, and maybe they'll sign up for email. That's great. You've got their permission. And then also if you're going to do that cold email, I love the fact that in the very beginning of you say, hey, you've been a client of mine. If not, you know, if you would like to be taken off this email list, click here or simply reply, remove to this email. And I've seen that on like a, a regular text email. You know, for me, I send out all emails that are HTML enabled and have graphics and that sort of thing. But if you're just writing through Gmail or Apple mail or however, you're communicating with these people, a simple text message that says, this is how I got your email. Please reply remove if you'd like to be removed from this list. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And I think that is the most gracious way to do a cold email. Laya: Exactly. That gives grace and says like, asking permission right off the jump and letting them know how you secured their information because privacy is a big thing. Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: You got to respect that in every aspect we can. And that kind of takes that -- Anne: It's the law. Laya: -- gross feeling off. For sure. It's the law. Anne: It's the law. Laya: Stick to the regulations and follow the rules, people. Anne: It's funny how many people don't -- like you think just sending an email to somebody unsolicited, you know what I mean? It is the law. Laya: Yeah. Anne: I mean, it, I mean, people may not take action, but it is the law. Laya: Well, in the states -- Anne: Exactly. Laya: -- it's less, I think, regulated as bad here, but like, you know, in the European Union -- Anne: Oh my God. Laya: GDPR, Canada. Absolutely. Anne: And California now has their own set of rules. And so -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- it really is. And I think as we progress, and data just becomes increasingly larger and larger and just more and more digital information coming at us, I don't think those laws are going to go away. I think they're going to be more of them coming. And so we need to secure permission in order to email people. And I think that is a very forward thinking, modern mindset, number one. So how do you get people on your list? You must offer them a way to get off of the list if you did not ask for their permission. Absolutely. So that's number one. Laya: That's number one. Yeah. And then frequency in general, I think we touched on this just a moment ago. I have a different kind of routine than you do, but also a very different brand and I'm not offering coaching and products and things like that, but always providing value within that email. And keeping it, for me, I feel like everyone realizes their attention span. Anne: Oh my goodness, yes. Laya: We -- the humankind has the intention span of a gnat these days. You know, if you're still listening right now, a few minutes in, we're grateful for that attention because thank you for being more than a gnat. Anne: Yeah. Laya: But really you, you have to be concise in your message and don't waste the reader's time. Value their time and input and that they gave that much to you. So being concise is key. What is there? There's like a new acronym at the top, TL/DR. Too long didn't read. And that's really to give you the footnotes of what you may say in three paragraphs in three sentences. And so once you write that email, I always take a step back, come back to it a few hours, or you know, even a day later, if I have that opportunity and like cut it down. I mean, you feel like you've got so much to say. Somebody else may only have just, you know, wants the bullets or the, the light version of that. So keep that in mind. Anne: And you, and you mentioned too that you send a quarterly email and say, well, maybe if you're going to book out a certain amount. So very similar to our BOSS Blasts, you know, we do a monthly BOSS Blast that just has bookout dates. It's super simple. It's like a few sentences. Hey, happy summer, you know, nothing that's necessarily too spammy or selly and oh, by the way, here's the new project that I just voiced or whatever that is, a picture of my cat. Again, it could be, you know, something that is not going to be intensely annoying. By the way the BOSS Blasts are -- Laya: Or selly. Anne: Or selly. By the way, the BOSS Blasts are all what I call vetted lists. People have already given permission. So we do a once a month. And in reality, we also know who we're sending to, so agencies or we're sending to in-house production companies. So if they've already agreed to allow us to send them email, they're expecting us to market to them. But again, we still don't want to waste their time. We're very succinct in our body of our text and our email. And hey, these are my bookout dates. Here's a new project, send a link to YouTube channel. If they want to take a look at that, and hey, have a great summer or, you know, hope you're doing well. And that's it. And actually once a month, if you think about it, and I always tell the story, like I subscribe to, I don't know, Old Navy, right? Old Navy three or four times a week sends me email when they have sales on different things. And so I know I'm subscribed, so I'm okay with getting the email from Old Navy. And as it goes through my inbox, I see it. I look at the subject, I look at who it's from. I look at the subject, and if that subject entices me to open it up, like maybe there's a sale. Well, I have -- a sale on shorts. I have a need for a pair of shorts. That's going to make me click it. I click it. And then I see the body of the email. Maybe there's a coupon code or whatever there is. And then if I want to go and buy, I will go to the website and buy. Think of that in terms of your voiceover business. Laya: Yes. Anne: So people may just see who it's coming from and your subject line. And if they don't need you at the time, they may just let it go through your inbox. Especially if they've given you permission, right, to allow you to market to them. It's okay. It's going to stay in my -- or you'll delete it later if you don't need it. But that doesn't mean that you can't email them next month, right? And next month they're like, oh yes, I need a voiceover to do this particular job. Click and buy. Boom. That's it. Laya: Yeah. And a good point of that is, especially if you are including your bookout dates -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- maybe include the -- as your subject line. So if they don't read, and they're like, oh shit, she's out of town next week. Anne: Yup. Laya: I was just thinking I needed a voice talent. And you know what? I want to pick up the phone now so I can lock her in for, you know, before this time she's given us, a couple of weeks. How far out, just speaking of bookout dates -- I don't want to digress from this. This topic is so key -- but how far out do you give your clients notice on bookout dates? Anne: Well, I do a monthly blast. So it's anything within the month. Laya: Okay, so wherever that falls. Anne: Yup. Laya: Got it. Curious about that. Like how far is too long? I think two weeks' notice is always good because inevitably you get the call like the day before you leave town. Anne: Exactly. Laya: That's a whole other conversation. Anne: Don't you always get the most work when you leave town? Always, right. Laya: When you're out of town. Yes. But I have a hard habit of actually traveling with my rig. Which I don't mind. Anne: That's another episode. Laya: That's another conversation, for sure, for sure. But getting back to this, I got to ask you two questions, which email marketing platform do you use? I use MailChimp. I was curious what you use. Anne: I use -- well, for my BOSS Blast, I use Active Campaign because I have a number of contacts. Laya: Okay. Anne: And usually the mail servers or the mail campaigns, they have a limit to the number of contacts or you pay based on the amount of contacts that you have. Laya: Pay over. Yeah. Anne: I used to use MailChimp. And now I just, because I went to a bigger platform with the BOSS Blast because I need to support a whole lot more contacts -- Laya: Yeah, they charge you per, right. Anne: -- I need to support like 90,000 contexts. So I'm using Active Campaign. Laya: Go girl. Yeah. Anne: So. Laya: Yeah, I'm on MailChimp because under 1000 is free. Anne: Yup, yup. Laya: And I really like the interface and the kind of the user experience, the UX on that is really flawless -- Anne: Oh yeah, I love MailChimp. Laya: -- for someone that does and doesn't know, plus they're Atlanta based, shout out, MailChimp. So that's kind of become my CRM, which leads me to my next question, to CRM or not? Anne Ganguzza, what's your take? Anne: Well, the CRM, I've often thought -- I tried Nimble back in the day, and Nimble had a problem with the amount of email that I had in Gmail. So, and I may be very untypical, and I'll just kind of, I digress just a little bit. Right now, if I look at my inbox -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- I have, uh, where does it tell me -- I have 949,367 unread emails. So, so what that means is -- Laya: Oh my gosh! Hold, can we have a moment for my zero inbox anxiety that just had a heart -- Anne: I know! Laya: -- palpitation? Anne: Most people have that. Most people have that. Laya: Anne, I have a zero inbox threshold. It's the Virgo in me and also the highly control freak. And I don't know, I don't know what that is, but you're -- you just gave me a heart palpitation. Anne: I know. Well, okay. So very few people know this about me, but the people that do know me, they know me so well. So I signed on to Gmail back in the day when it first started. I want to say it was 1990-something. And so Google is a search engine. So for me, I just never deleted my email because I can search my mail. Laya: Sure. Anne: And it's a really good search engine, by the way, if you've ever used Google at all. Laya: Yes, it is. Anne: The Gmail search engine is a great search engine, so I've never had the desire to really delete my mail. So. Yeah. Laya: Oh my gosh, I have a funny story for you really quickly. You know, how on your phone, if you're using an Apple phone, you can accidentally like select all, if you are in your email box? Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: Well, I did that once, recently. I select all and deleted, and I didn't mean to do it, but I did it. And then like after I got over the initial -- luckily this was not my business inbox, but after I got over the initial, like panic that I had just lost all this content, I felt like -- Anne: Free. Laya: -- kind of, yeah, totally free. Meanwhile, you're over there just hoarding. Anne: I know, unread emails do not disturb me -- Laya: It's awesome. Anne: -- because I look at it as a search engine. Laya: Okay. They disturb me. But that's fine. Anne: So Nimble back in the day had a problem. They wanted to charge me based upon the number of emails. And so I was like, well -- Laya: They were gonna get rich on you, wow. Anne: -- I am not paying that. And so in reality before then I had used Gmail believe it or not just to organize all of my contacts and star them and put colors on them. And that became my working folder of contacts. And ultimately, you know, my Active Campaign, which is my mailer. And I had MailChimp for a long time before I ran out of the contacts, and I just had, then I had to go into pricing more of which one was better, and which mail service could do the best for me. So I ended up with Active Campaign because it handled the amount of contacts, but it's also a CRM for me. I have a database of contacts. I know what the last campaign was sent. I know if they opened it. I know if they clicked. I know what links they clicked. And that is my CRM. And I have automations so that if I want to follow back with this particular contact, I can do that. So that's my CRM -- Laya: Yeah, that's awesome. Anne: -- but not -- it's not like a CRM like Nimble or any other, HubSpot or those types of things that you buy specifically a CRM for, but it does everything that I need a CRM to do. Laya: Yeah. And I appreciate you giving us that candid feedback because I feel like there is a little bit of a push, and that's from some really great established voiceover-specific CRMs that have been fabulous for people. I just haven't personally kind of gone down that path yet. I always feel like, you know, is it cart before the horse, chicken before the egg? Like, you don't know, you need a CRM until you need a CRM, and you've got enough contacts, but it's also very hard to start or justify cost when you don't feel like you have a lot of contacts. So I kind of bridged this gap between managing my contacts through -- Anne: Yup, yup. Laya: -- MailChimp, but also used HubSpot and Zapier to really connect those two and extract the emails and the content and the information I needed. There's a free program within those two that, that I was able to leverage. And I don't go back to it on a regular basis. I probably scrub all of my emails through the connection of Zapier and HubSpot maybe twice a year. And I would like to migrate eventually to a CRM because I feel that it can be wildly beneficial, especially as an ex-marketer and a new modern-minded entrepreneur. But I haven't gotten there yet either. And I think that's okay. Anne: Yes. Laya: I still have a thriving business. I feel like I have a flag system as well within Apple mail. And right now it works for me, but I definitely see that in my future too. So it's good to hear your feedback, especially with such an established list like you have. Um, very cool. Thanks for sharing. Anne: I just have never kind of had the need to go more in depth than that. You know? I've got all the information that I need in terms of the contact information, the campaign they last opened, when the campaign was sent. I mean, there's just a ton of information. And if I feel like I need to have something that prompts me to contact them again, I build an automation, and that's, that's really all it is. So. Laya: Yeah. Talk to me a little bit more about automation. I use it in some other scheduling platforms, like in Calendly. I use that there when scheduling for voiceover sessions and things like that. And I definitely think there's a whole conversation around hacks throughout this marketing bubble that can help streamline our workflow and make us more efficiently productive in our VO BOSS businesses. But talk to me about automation and how you use it in email. And do you use it as a one-off to individuals or is it just cyclical? How does it work? Anne: It can be either or. So it really depends on where I'm doing this. So if I'm just working out of Gmail for an individual contact, um, and sometimes this works or not, you know, I have something called Boomerang, which Boomerang allows you to -- Laya: Okay. Anne: -- you kind of put that to rest. It'll reappear in your inbox. And then if you decide you want to schedule an email after that, after you read it, there's lots of different things that you can do. You can schedule an email to go out, you know, the following week or the following month. In my Active Campaign, there is a whole module that you can build automations off of. And I have -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- information on, you know, I can put contacts in a list and contacts that are a part of that list. Every time something happens, every time they open an email, every time I send a campaign or whatever it is, it goes into an automation. And then it's like, you build a flow chart. And so, okay, open this campaign, and then you want to say, okay, they opened the campaign. Then, you know, wait two days and then send them a follow-up email. And then after the follow-up email, we're going to wait maybe a week or maybe a month. And we're going to send up the second follow-up email. And so you can check on the contact and know where they are in that automation. Are they 20% through? Are they, you know, have they reached this? Laya: Did they read the whole thing? They click this link? Right? Very cool. Anne: yeah. Laya: I love how we can leverage that now to make us a little bit more savvy in our marketing -- Anne: Exactly. Laya: -- more personal, but also again, with those light touches of personal connection, like as if, without being Big Brother -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and like, you know, too heavy in the sell or too creepy in the, in the callouts -- 'cause a lot of people that don't understand marketing or like how was that thing following me? Well, how did it know? At this point I think everyone's onto those automations, but it's also so helpful to streamline your business. So I love seeing that in real-world applications. Anne: Yeah. Absolutely. It's, you know, and it's something you have to put your time into. I know there's so many BOSSes out there -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- and marketing -- you know, it's interesting. 'Cause I think marketing is the thing that we need the most of as entrepreneurs and business owners. But yet it is the thing that people like the least, or it's also the thing -- and this is, this is straight-up experience in terms of selling classes for years to the voiceover industry -- it is the class that does the worst in terms of sales, meaning they all say they need it. They all say they want it. But yet when it comes time for clicking the buy, right? Most voice talent are going to buy the performance oriented class rather than the marketing class. And it's just the truth there. Laya: Yeah. Because it's scary. Anne: It is. Laya: And it's, there's so much complexity, and then you feel like, you know, you need it, but you can't learn it. Anne: But you can learn it. Laya: Gosh, it's an investment. Anne: That's the thing. Laya: And you absolutely can. Anne: I want people to know that. Laya: These can be baby steps. Yeah. That's why, I'm glad we talked about the CRM. Like I felt so much pressure to invest in the system that I was going to have to learn and apply and et cetera. And I just said, hold on a second. Let me just piece by piece. I know that's on my future roadmap as far as the business owner. However right now this is working for me. And I think it's okay to say that. Anne: You know -- Laya: You know? Anne: You know what's so interesting is that I did not go to school for marketing. Like nowhere in my educational history was there ever a marketing in class ever. And as a matter of fact, I didn't even start to learn how to market until I started becoming an entrepreneur, which is boom, I quit my corporate job. And all of a sudden here I was trying to build up my voiceover business. And so I went from making a salary to making $0, and my own, I'm going to say guilt -- Laya: Same here, girl. Anne: -- guilt maybe of not being able to contribute to the household motivated me to move my butt to figure out how am I going to make money at this? Because I have to, because I want to be a contributor to the household. And it was my own motivation and push that I learned marketing online. I literally, I signed up for mailing lists. I saw how other people marketed. And over the years, I literally just became a marketer myself because I had to. I mean, it was just, and I think that anybody -- look, if I can do it, I mean, honestly I think anybody can learn marketing. It just takes -- Laya: Yeah, truth serum here. I'm right there with you. I went to school for radio broadcasting, not marketing, but then became a VP of marketing -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- because of learning -- Anne: Exactly. Laya: -- and real-world application and just -- Anne: To survive. Laya: -- paying attention to -- yeah. And to what resonates with you as a person. Right? And that's really all it comes down to. It's like, how would you want to be approached? Anne: Be marketed to. So you know how to market to people. Laya: Exactly. Anne: That's it. Yeah. Laya: Pay attention. That's the modern mindset in marketing. Anne: That's exactly -- I think, you know what? I think that's absolutely how I even learned to like, what is acceptable in terms of email marketing? Right? Well, I'm email marketed to. Sign up for those lists. This is probably why I have 967,000 unread emails, because guess what? I signed up for every type of business email list there was -- Laya: Right. Anne: -- so that I could -- Laya: It's research. Anne: -- yeah. So that I could get those emails, look at them and say, hmm, okay. I see how they're marketing. I like this one. I don't like this one. This one's annoying. And literally, I completely honest, as a matter of fact, I didn't even realize that that's probably why I have all the unread messages, but again, I did open some of them. Right? And I did open enough of them to really kind of learn how to market in my own way that I felt would be effective for my business so everyone can learn. Laya: Yeah. Anne: Everyone can learn. Laya: Absolutely. And what's cool about email marketing, if you are a numbers person or if you kind of, you like to look at stats and see like a real ROI and the real results, so many of these platforms may get really hyper easy for us to understand the analytics behind what you're sending out. And then you can kind of tweak accordingly, you know. MailChimp makes it really user-friendly. I'm able to see how many people, what my open rate was, which really just means how many people from that several hundred actually clicked on my email, actually clicked through to see my latest link or my latest video that I embedded there. Anne: Yeah. Laya: It makes it so easy to drag and drop graphics and blocks. Anne: Sure. Laya: And there's so many new, easy platforms to help you get imagery and borrow content or share a great story. So it really doesn't have to be over complicated, and you might actually surprise yourself in seeing how fun it is to play the numbers game on the back end. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And, and, you know, get your little virtual pat on the back by looking at your analytics and starting to understand those things. And these days, everything from websites, minds -- again, with Squarespace, it makes it super easy on the back end to see those things. Anne: Yeah. Wix -- Laya: Same with like MailChimp -- Anne: -- as well. Laya: -- same with those, all of those, make it super kind of cool to look at -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- your new, modern way of marketing again. So it's, it's really interesting to dive in once you do. Anne: And by the way, for those of you that are interested, a 10% open rate is actually very good. And so -- Laya: So good, so good! Anne: -- if you send an email to 100 people, if 10 of them open that email, that's awesome. And if by the way, over 1% click on it, that is awesome. So that -- Laya: It's a win! Anne: -- is a win for you. So it's funny how many people don't realize, you know, it was kind of like when you invite people to a party, right? They say expect 10% to -- well, maybe not a party, but an event, right? Expect 10% to show up. Laya: Oh yeah. Anne: If it's my party, I want 100% of my people to respond. Laya: 100% attendance. Anne: Well, here's the deal. How interesting of a comparison is that? If I have a party and I invite people that I know, and they're my friends and they know me very well, I expect 100% of people to show up. Right? Maybe 90, if there's -- Laya: Or at least respond. Anne: Right? Laya: Sure. Right. Anne: So think about that in terms of your email marketing, right. If you don't know anybody that you're inviting to the party, what are you going to say to get them interested? Right? And how many are actually going to open that invitation, and then how many people are actually going to click and go to the party? So I like to maybe compare it to, to the party. So that 10% open rate and over a 1% click rate is awesome. So. Laya: Don't, don't let that discourage you. Anne: Exactly. Laya: Exactly right. And I think it's okay to, just like we've talked about in past episodes of like, what do I even say? You know, have a purpose, have something to share. Yes. But it's okay to start off with a little bit of kind of candid, you know, human, like -- Anne: Photo of my cat. Laya: -- hey, this is my -- Anne: This is my cat! Laya: -- very first email blast. Thank you for allowing me the space to share. And if you've gotten this far, I appreciate it and hope you're having an awesome day so far, you know. It's okay to be very human in that. In fact, I find that -- Anne: Will help Laya: -- that creates more of -- yeah, connection and more empathy from whoever might be on the other end opening it. So don't let that scare you. Anne: Good stuff, wow. I really feel email marketing is just one of those that I feel the mysteries of the universe for most voice talent. And we hope that we've been able to help you guys at least cut through -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- some of the mystery and get you thinking in a modern mindset for email marketing for today. Laya: Yes. Thank you for having me, Anne. It's always a pleasure. I'm looking forward to our next conversation. Anne: Me too, me too. Laya: Thanks for having me, BOSSes. Anne: Me too. That's a big shout-out to ipDTL, our sponsor. You too can connect like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com, and you guys, have an amazing week, and we will both see you next week. Bye-Bye. Laya: Thanks, everybody. Bye-bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Your instagram feed isn’t really your diary, even if you treat it like one. In this episode, Anne & Laya discuss how to set social media boundaries, talk about the power of engagement, and teach you ways to leverage your money-maker across platforms in ways that keep you (and your voice) top of mind. Stay up to date and plugged in like a #VOBOSS! In this episode, Anne and Laya discuss social media boundaries, engagement, and boosting your voice across platforms… More at https://voboss.com/modern-social-media-with-laya-hoffman   Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with very special guest co-host Laya Hoffman. Yay, Laya! Laya: Hey BOSSes. Hey Anne. How's it going? Anne: I'm doing great. How about yourself? Laya: Rocking and rolling. Super excited to be back on the show talking to you today. I think we're doing a new modern mindset about new media and social media. Anne: Absolutely. Yeah, we are talking about coming into the new times and having a modern mindset when it comes to your business. So we spoke in the last few episodes about modern marketing, kind of just to get the ball rolling. Let's focus in more, I think, on social media for sure. Laya: Yeah, yeah. Anne: And talk about a modern take on social media, because boy, in the last couple of years, since this pandemic, things have really changed -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- in social media, and I have a much different mindset today than I did even last year about it. Laya: Yeah, you do. We all do because it has evolved, but at the same time it's evolved, I think everyone's approach or level of interest and engagement has evolved as well, because we've probably all been isolated in some capacity in a -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and found ourselves drawn to either losing ourselves or being inspired or comparing ourselves on various social media platforms. And whichever one you toggle between in a day, I know for myself, I've actually had to create some boundaries on social media. Anne: Oh yeah, absolutely. Laya: Just for my own health and wellness and perception and productivity, in my day, you kind of have to, whoa, take a step back and how much of your time, energy and effort is being put into that. So, you know, I think that's a modern mindset in itself, put up your walls, people. Anne: You know, what's so interesting is that a few years back, I mean, I remember I was the social media maven, and I think just because I'm a very tech girl, and I was always into making sure that my online business presence was there, and I always eagerly embraced social media as it would become available and new platforms. And I was just all into it, and lately I have been, wow, I need to step back a little bit because there, it has evolved in such a way. And we've all I think, it's become just so easy to type at that prompt all types of emotions, all types of everything comes out. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And sometimes it's not healthy. Laya: Yes, this is true. Anne: And so I have had to step back -- in terms of what you're consuming, hopefully what you're typing is healthy, right? What you're consuming may or may not be healthy mentally for you. And so I, myself person who always embraced social media, have kind of taken a step back and thought, wow, I think possibly I need to step away for a moment, make sure that I, like you said, set boundaries for the day. And I never thought I would say that for Anne Ganguzza, 'cause I'm just, you know, I'm all about the tech. But there are times when I need to absolutely step back away from it in order to regain a sense of balance in myself -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- and in my business. Laya: I totally agree with you, Anne, and I echo that sentiment and have had to do the same. As a former marketer, I felt like I was dead set on consistency, posting every day, keeping your engagement up, being relevant, you know, sharing the most modern content, being and living authentically yet, you know, putting your best face -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and your brand forward -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- but still being able to connect and having a touch point throughout the day. Now, after what, 19, 20 months of a pandemic -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- I have definitely compartmentalized and created more healthy boundaries. And I think that in itself is a modern mindset. You do not need to share. Anne: Yeah. Laya: It's not "dear diary." Anne: Yeah. Laya: You don't need to overshare and over-consume and over-engage because it in itself is a energetic vampire, you know, just -- Anne: Oh, for sure. Laya: -- sucking the energy out of you and really not contributing to the betterment and the health and wellness from a mindset place in a healthy holistic way for yourself or your business. So I think it's totally okay to take a step back. Anne: And also lay you have a daughter that you're considering as well in terms of there have to be boundaries set for this. Laya: Absolutely. Anne: And I do want to say by the way, for those BOSSes out there that are not familiar, Laya has a podcast with her daughter, which is amazing. Laya: Thank you. It's called "She Sounds Like Me," and we have to have our social presence for that too. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: But it takes a lot of work and effort. So setting those boundaries is key. Anne: So how do you set your boundaries for social media, number one, in terms of, let's say, business? So there's, I assume there's a period of time that you're just kind of flipping through social media that might be information or entertainment for you and then there's business. Laya: Yeah, that's right. Anne: Do you separate it out that way? Laya: I -- yes and no. My business is my being as it is yours too. It's hard to make that separation, but I've learned to compartmentalize. So I'll check in in the morning and just see what kind of engagement happened overnight. Was there anything big that's happened in the world? You know, it's my news source -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- for all intensive purposes -- Anne: Yeah, me too. Laya: -- which is both a pain point and somewhat of a relief. I don't, I don't even know. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: So there's that, but then I try to take a short 30-minute break in the middle of my day for lunch and what have you. I'll check in then. And then I also check back in probably around 5:00 in the afternoon when my work day is, quote, done and then in the evening, which is kind of the pattern of most working people. And so -- well these days, who knows because everyone's working these hours and whatnot -- but that's also the most relevant time for engagement. So talking about actual posting and whether or not the visibility or the exposure you're going to get is going to have the same weight, during those high traffic hours is the most relevant time to be posting. It's when you will be the most visible on any platform. So that's one imparted tip and in conjunction with our own habits. So that's interesting. Anne: So I find, and actually I'll ask you, do you actually not have any social media like tabs open in your browser? 'Cause I might have Facebook open. I might have LinkedIn open. I might have my phone. I've got notifications. So for me, I literally, if I'm working at my desk doing marketing or whatever I'm doing, or even if I'm coaching, I will have to have all my social media closed in order to not be completely distracted by it and only opened at certain times. And I know there's programs out there that can help you to do that if that's something that you might need, but that's about the only way I can stay away, because I always say there's never an emergency in social media really. And most social media will have notifications that go to your email. So I do have my email open at all times. Laya: Hmm. That's an interesting approach too. Anne: Yeah. Laya: I actually do a bit of the opposite. I never have social media channels open on my browser, my browser in my office is the studio. And so I do not go onto Facebook or any of the channels, not even, except for YouTube. I do have that up because I'm constantly referencing audio, of course, for work. And then also that's where I'll upload work files from my desktop -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- as opposed to my cell phone. But I usually only go to social media on my cell phone during those break hours. Anne: Sure. Laya: And then also I turn off all my notifications because if -- I found that I was getting constantly pinged, then I would check. It's the hit you're looking for. Anne: Yeah. Laya: I just want to engage and can I contribute and can I be of service or help? But if I limit that and turn off those notifications, that helps me set boundaries. Anne: Yeah, that's interesting. Laya: So that's how I do it. Anne: Notifications are a big thing. Well, you know, it ends up being that, anything that is that important, especially because if it's a client trying to get in touch with me or a, you know, maybe a student, but again, remember I have brands that I'm pushing out social media as well for, events that I'm hosting and that sort of thing. So I do need to keep, uh, you know, I have the VO Peeps membership. I do have a VO BOSS social posts that I'm putting out. So in case there's interaction on it, I do have to respond. I mean, I want to be interactive. If I'm just pushing content out and not being interactive through the socials for my brands. So I do have some responsibility there, but -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- and so I have my email on, in which case my notifications will come to my email, but I think any other type of notifications, except for my text, everybody knows my number in case they need emergency to get in touch with me. Laya: Sure. Anne: But yeah, that's kind of how I work. So I -- literally for a while there though I did have like Facebook open or LinkedIn or Instagram so that I could respond and interact for my brands. And it got to the point where I literally had to not have them open in tabs anymore because it was causing such a distraction. And so now I have certain times when I go in and respond, and probably people who know me, you know, I have not been as responsive. And I hate to, I mean, I'm going to admit that here, but part of it has been simply the workload. Laya: Yeah, it's overwhelming. Anne: It's been overwhelming a little bit for me lately. So I've not been as responsive as before, but I want to make sure that I'm there in responding to people out there that are, that are interacting on my social media. So I have to literally have it open for a certain amount of time. Then I have to literally close the window. Otherwise I am, I am drawn to it. I'm sucked in. Laya: Yeah, we all kind of are. Now let me ask you a question. Do you have anyone on your team that runs or helps you schedule your social media? Anne: Yes. Laya: Or do you schedule your social media yourself? Anne: No, I do have people that help me schedule my social media on a weekly basis. Laya: That's great. Anne: So I know what's going out to the week -- and then of course as special events happen, I'll post those immediately. But yeah, I do have somebody that helps schedule my posts, and that is on a weekly basis. So I have to check in on a daily basis just to interact with those posts in case there's something going on, or I might have to moderate a post. I mean, that has been known to happen on one of my brands, because I do have a community, the VO Peeps community together. And so if there's a post and people are responding to a thread and it gets out of control, I'll have to do something as a moderator to take -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- to take care of that. But other than that, because my business, again, I've chosen to have -- I have four distinct brands, but I have -- there's the Anne Ganguzza brand, then there's the VO BOSS brand, which obviously I love. And then my VO Peeps, which I love and I've had them forever. And also my Studio Cats, which is my fun -- I don't ever have issues with my Studio Cats brand because that's just posting pictures of my cats and fun cat things, which -- Laya: How out of hand can it get? Anne: -- is super simple. Laya: Yeah, the cats get crazy. You got to get in there. Anne: It's funny because my cats are five years old now. And if there's one thing that people love and can take the tension off, and you know what I mean? If -- in today's chaotic world -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- like a picture of a kitten or, you know, any fur baby is just -- Laya: Break it up -- Anne: -- you know -- Laya: -- a little levity, right? Anne: -- gives me a little bit of, a little bit of happiness and joy during the day. So I, as a girl for five years who had my cats as kittens, you cannot resist. I probably have 10,000 pictures of my cats. Laya: Well, there you go. Anne: So I've got enough to last. Laya: There needs to be an outlet. Yeah. Put that somewhere. Anne: That's right. And I wanted to provide an outlet to people to have just a little bit of joy -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- for no other reason than just, oh, look at that. Laya: And it showcases personality and what you love and your passion. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And I think that's totally fine. Anne: Yeah. Laya: So for me, I do have someone that schedules for the She Sounds Like Me podcast on social media because that is hyper-focused content that I share a very like-minded thoughts and passions about. But it can get a little, I don't want to say political, it can get, um, it's very opinionated, a little bit of a liberal feminist approach there. And so that is its own entity. But for me, I do all my own social media, and it, it can get to be a lot -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- and that consistency has gone the way of the dodo. And I don't use a scheduler. I feel like I tried that for my own self, and I felt too much pressure. And to think forward as to what I was putting out there, that works great for a lot of talent. It didn't work for me, but I appreciate it. Now. I think we want to definitely give the BOSSes out there some tips about -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- maybe the best ways to engage socially -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- with clients or potential leads or other like-minded individuals. And one thing I don't see enough of us using as voice actors is the voice. So on almost every one of these platforms -- Anne: How true. Laya: -- you can hit the voice record button to give somebody a shout-out, to celebrate their success, to give them a back channel, or just let them know how awesome they're doing and what you've appreciated about what they've shared. And I find that that is making such a more intimate connection, and it's showcasing your voice -- Anne: Oh my gosh. Laya -- Laya: -- without, yeah, giving it. Anne: We can just go home now. Laya: Okay. Anne: That was it. Laya: That's it. Anne: That was the golden nugget of the day. Laya: Perfect. Anne: We're done, BOSSes. Laya: Use the voice button. Anne: Seriously. And I am so glad that that was the first thing that you said, because I have a voice testimonial thing that I have voice feedback, voice activated everything. And it's so funny because as voice actors, I'm surprised that more people aren't into -- Laya: We don't use it enough. Anne: -- using that. What is, and how many -- Laya: Why not? Anne: -- and I remember when I started even this podcast, how many -- this is what we do for a living. Laya: Yeah. Anne: How is it that we don't have a thousand voiceover podcasts by now? I mean, really. Laya: That's true too. But it's -- social has made it so easy. Anne: Yeah. Laya: In fact, LinkedIn also offers us voice, which in my opinion has to be used with some discretion because you don't want to be dropping voice memos -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- to people that you don't know -- Anne: Know, exactly. Laya: -- and be like, hey, look at me. By the way, Ted, can I get a voice job? Anne: Hello. Laya: I see you need some -- Anne: It's so nice to meet you. Laya: Yeah, no, pump the brakes, you know? Anne: Right. Laya: But once you've engaged with someone or you've established a bit of a relationship -- Anne: Oh, I agree. Laya: -- I think it's so much more personal to be like, "hey, I saw your post on XXX. I really identified with that. Thanks for sharing. Hope you have an awesome day. I look forward to your next post." You know, it can just be about them, but told from your soul -- Anne: Oh my goodness, yes. Laya: -- authentic, conversational way. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: And then hello, you've just dropped them a sample and made them feel like you went the extra mile to get out of your own comfort zone to show them what you do without showing them what you do and being gross about it. So, you know. Anne: [laughs] Try to be gross about it. Laya: Use that. Anne: Hey BOSSes, don't be gross about it. Laya: Use the button. Anne: I get that. And I love that, but I also, look, I'm going to go so far as to say, pick up the phone -- Laya: Will that do -- Anne: -- and talk to your clients. Laya: For sure. Anne: And I know, okay, I know I'm old, and I know that there's -- Laya: That's so modern. Anne: -- maybe the younger generation, you know, those young kids that may not want to pick up a phone and talk to someone, but -- Laya: Right. Anne: -- part of our business is speaking for a living. And I really feel that if you want to communicate with your client, I'm always the first person to pick up the phone to, to call to maybe, hey, let's discuss the project, give me some clarification on it. Also, you know, in the beginning, when you're quoting a project, I've always had wonderful luck with calling the client to get the specs clarified and just talk and introduce. And you know, at that point that this is a real client -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- and you can get a lot of information -- Laya: That's them. Anne: -- just by hearing their voice. You know, they're legit if they pick up the other end of that phone number that's on their signature. There's so much to be said for communicating with your clients vocally. And also I'm going to just kind of do a little plug here is that I have really been focusing on getting my voice out there on Alexa devices, because -- Laya: Oh, I saw you put something out about that. I saw that and I loved it. Anne: Yeah. Laya: In fact, I got one of your email blasts about it -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and was looking into it. Anne: Yeah. Laya: What's the, what's it called again? Anne: Well, that's the Voiceweave. Laya: Right. Anne: And I know that right now, Voiceweave, the last time I had spoken about it, it's such a cool idea. It's a voice website, and it's basically a series of prompts. So if somebody wants to learn about you and your voice, they can ask Alexa. And basically, if you want to hear my voice, you can just say "open Anne Ganguzzza Voice" or "open Anne Ganguzza Voice Talent." And it's right on my -- by the way, if you forget, you can go right to my webpage, and it tells you how to access it on Alexa. And you can ask me a bunch of questions, and I will give you answers in my own voice, not Alexa's voice, which is really reaching a whole different audience. And I've got another -- Laya: Wow, that is such a cool -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- new media. Anne: And I've got another really cool thing that's going to be happening, which I'm going to be doing, a flash briefing. Laya: Oh yeah. Anne: So for those people that want to find out, okay, what does Anne Ganguzza have to say today, well, you can subscribe to my voice briefing or my flash briefing. And that way I'll have something good to say, and I don't have to really, you know -- it could just be, you know, from the heart, right? Authentic, very much like this podcast. And I will tell you voices and BOSSes out there. Honestly, I have gotten a lot of work from just being on this podcast. Laya, I don't know about you as well, but -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- it's, we're ourselves, we're authentic. People hear our voice. It keeps us top of mind, and we're not even advertising that we're a voice artist really in order to get that work. Laya: Just sharing knowledge. Anne: Exactly. Laya: That was a huge side point of why we started our podcast, Sila and I, because we're both voice actors. Of course, that was just kind of to talk about how to work together with your child in entertainment. That was initially my thought. It turned out to be so much more than that, and we hardly talk about voice acting at all, but it is very interesting. And I think using your voice in social media, whether it's, you know, recording a stories, or you're doing a reels or you are on Snapchat or TikTok, and you're kind of doing those skits or those one-offs, the trending topics du jour, at least your voice is getting out there. Now, one of the ways to really amplify that is to making sure it's positioned in the right place. So using the right tags, using the right hashtags, making sure you're engaging with businesses that maybe you can connect with by tagging them or using their app, if you're, of course, you're given permission and things like that. And trying to broaden the visibility on those posts when you are on social media and using your voice. So those are all really great tips. Anne: You know, and talk about being able to reach -- just because we wrenching about podcasts. It doesn't mean you have to have a podcast about voiceovers. As a matter of fact, you even said you don't even talk about that anymore with your podcast. That's absolutely the idea, right? Talk about what you're passionate about. That's I, you know, I do a Clubhouse weekly with Cheryl Hauling and Jody Krangle, and we talk about our podcasts and how voice actors really need to talk about their passions. It doesn't have to be all about, hey, I'm a voice actor and this is all about the voice acting industry. I think it's even better if you're talking about your passions, because you're going to get yourself outside of the listenership of just voice actors. You want people to listen. Laya: Talk to me about that Clubhouse, because I know you've had a lot of success with that. I see lots of talent, Eric Romanovski I see Mark Guss hosting -- very well-known people in the industry, hosting Clubhouse rooms, and really connecting with such a wide range of people all over the world from Clubhouse. Or you're seeing some success with that -- Anne: Exactly. Laya: -- yeah. Talk to me about that. Anne: Absolutely. Well, first of all, it's such a great medium. I mean, it's like, you know, literally talking on the phone, right? But -- or you don't even have to talk if you don't want to. You can just listen in on conversations. Laya: Yeah. Anne: It really took off quickly, and I've read some articles, whether, you know, is it, oh my gosh, was it just a thing, but I don't think that Clubhouse is going away anytime soon. I really, really think that it is a wonderful way for people to really get involved and share something more authentic than the keyboard. Because I think there's a lot to be said when we're sharing information and discussions on a platform that allows us to use our voice. And -- Laya: And not just hide behind your moniker -- Anne: Exactly. Laya: -- or your meme or your thought of the day, it's like it's giving more depth and more, uh, understanding of niche topics. And I really have appreciated it. I took a step away from that to, just again, based on boundary setting and time suck. Anne: Oh, that's a time-suck. Laya: I think, yeah. Anne: It can be. Laya: I really went down the Clubhouse hole -- Anne: It can be. Laya: -- came back out and put that on pause, but there is so much community support there -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and connectivity. I know people that have really created and nurtured some amazing relationships -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- through channels like Clubhouse, and talk about a platform that's just using your voice. I have a question for you about it though. Do you use just your phone microphone or do you use an adapter that connects your microphone? Because I have heard that -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and I don't know if people are using that. Uh, how about you? Anne: So that has been -- actually, that is like the beginning of every pan -- because every Thursday I do a panel at 11:00 AM Pacific time -- Laya: Okay. Anne: -- called the Voices in Podcasting, the VIP, room. And, and of course, everybody is -- I'd love for you to join. Laya: Yes, I will. Anne: Any Thursday. Laya: For sure. Anne: The funny part, the funny part is I have been trying so hard to be able to -- 'cause Clubhouse was built for iOS -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- and now they're on Android. And so it's typically done through your phone microphone and speakers, et cetera. But of course, everybody wants to, you know, elevate. Laya: Better quality. Anne: So, yeah, better quality. I want better quality. That's, you know, that's what I do, right? Audio, we do audio. So I tried a multitude of ways to connect a different microphone to my phone, which was phenomenal. I bought a Tula microphone to actually do that. I was, I was told that it would work with my iOS, and it actually does, but it doesn't work with the Clubhouse app when you are a moderator. So it'll work fine if you're using Twisted Wave, or you're using the Voice Memo. But as soon as you go into Clubhouse and you try to use the Tula -- Laya: Clubhouse! Anne: -- yeah. And become a moderator. So it'll, it'll be okay if you're just listening, but if you're a moderator, and you need to speak or you get up on stage, it, then all of a sudden, goes to the phone microphone. So I have tried everything. Lately what I've been doing -- Laya: Drats. Anne: -- yeah, lately, what I've been doing is, but Tula mic is really cool looking, by the way. And I'm trying to find a reason to really keep it. And it's a great USB mic. I will tell you that, I did a review on my blog. Laya: Said no one ever about any USB mic, but I love to hear that from you. Anne: Yeah, go, go -- it's a beautiful mic. Go to my blog. I have written a review on it, and I -- Laya: Okay. Anne: -- I agree for a USB mic, It's really cool, because it self records. You don't need a DAW or anything. Laya: Very cool. Anne: So yeah, but what I have done in Clubhouse is there is a app which will work on iOS and works on my Mac called Club Deck, and Club Deck will allow you to use a USB mic that will be connected to your computer. Not -- I tried my 416. It didn't work. It doesn't like any kind of -- Laya: Could you imagine? Anne: -- doesn't like any interface in the way, right? So, but if you have a USB mic, it apparently, you can change your microphone. And so I use my Tula or I use my, I have an AT-2020 USB that I use on Clubhouse, and it makes a big difference. Laya: Yeah. Anne: It sounds great. So for the first, I don't even know, 10 weeks that I was doing this 11:00 moderated panel, I would have whatever technical issue. And I would just come like two minutes late. I'm like, oh my God, can you hear me, can you hear me now? Do I sound, how do I sound? Do I sound good? Because you can't hear what you sound like. Really. Laya: Yeah, yeah. Anne: Easily. Laya: This would drive me crazy. Like we're such audio nerds now. Anne: People made fun of me. No, people made fun of me 'cause I was trying everything I said. So today I'm using my AT-2020 mic. Today I'm using my phone. Today I'm trying to use my Tula mic on my phone. And then -- it's just crazy. But anyways, I didn't mean to digress so deeply into that. But Clubhouse -- Laya: It's important though. It is a voice platform. And I'm -- Anne: It is a voice platform. I love it. Laya: I was curious about that though, because our ears are hyper tuned. Now everybody's not like that. But if you are using that as kind of a calling card, right? And you're connecting with people -- I'm a nerd. I need it to sound pristine, like Tim Tippetts pristine -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- even on the Clubhouse. And so I was wondering about that. Anne: Well, it does sound pretty good. It does sound pretty good. And here's a thought for the BOSSes out there, right? If you are modern mindset social media, right? Let's just say you have a podcast. It's not about voiceover. It's about your passion. It's -- I've always said like, there's so many ideas I have for podcasts. But anyways, I have a former student of mine who does a lot of work with elder care and advocacy for elderly patients. And I'm like, God, we need a podcast on that. Everybody needs a podcast, because everybody's parents get older, and there's always like, what do I do? You know, what opportunities are available for me? How can I get the best care? I said, someone needs to do this podcast. And you know, just anything that she's an expert on, she's passionate about, have a podcast on that, and then use Clubhouse as like kind of a supplemental extra. Laya: Sure. Anne: "Oh, and by the way, we'll be doing live discussion on Clubhouse on Wednesdays at 2:00." And I think that that is a wonderful way to really broaden your audience and potential clients, because guess what? You're using your voice. Laya: Exactly. Anne: For both. Laya: I've actually considered bringing that into the fold for my daughter and I's show for She Sounds Like Me, talking about parenting -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and some of the issues that the moms and modern minded mamas are thinking about today. So that's interesting to see that tie in that you've assimilated between podcasting and Clubhouse, and then spin all of that up and put that on LinkedIn -- Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Laya: And make sure that you're engaging on all -- Anne: And you can live stream. Laya: -- of those platforms. Sure. Anne: Yeah. You can live stream Clubhouse on other social channels. So I do, I really do love that. And you know, what I, what I love about your podcast with your daughter is that you are talking about things that are not, it's not voiceover related. You're talking about things that I love too, about growing up a strong female and STEM education and all that good stuff, which I absolutely love. Laya: Cool. Anne: And I think that it has such a wonderful audience -- Laya: Thank you. Anne: -- too for you. Laya: Thank you. Anne: Look at the broad audience you have. Anybody with children, right, that wants to be the best parent that they can be and empower their children to be everything that they can be. That's such a wonderful topic and so relevant for today. And oh, and by the way, you're also top of mind now to an audience that you probably never would have been able to get to had you just say, I'm a voice talent, do you need a voiceover? Laya: Right, right. Anne: You know? So. Laya: Thinking of those creative ways to like really talk about yourself without talking about yourself -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- but also serving your target market, your target audience -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- in an authentic way by just being yourself. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: I think just like, you know, posting daily is not necessarily so crucial anymore and posting all about you is definitely, like, people can get toned up real fast. So, you know, just keeping it relevant and keeping it light, and more importantly, cheering and being a cheerleader, a positive advocate or a cheerleader for the people that you are connected with, and you are following be it other talent, be it potential clients or just people within your network, because they'll remember you. You know, on LinkedIn -- Anne: Yeah, yup. Laya: -- every time you comment or like -- and I did want to mention this tip. I have another tip for us. On every social media platform except for Clubhouse because it doesn't have this functionality, but I want to make sure that our BOSSes understand that it's not enough just to like someone's posts. If you're really trying to support them, think of it this way. A like is worth one point. A comment is worth two points, and a share is worth like five, right? Anne: Yup, yup. Laya: So if you really want to tip the balance and show that you're engaging with a potential client, brand, partner, et cetera, or just someone you admire -- Anne: Awesome. Yup. Great advice. Laya: -- you want to really not just give them a heart comment and not just an emoji, but like give them some context that you are actually listening, that you are reading, et cetera. If you share it, like you share it on Facebook, or you share it on LinkedIn, that gives their initial post so much more exposure. That's how those posts get viral, and they, they get seen again and again. The more you engage with a post and deepen that thread line, the more weight it gives to that original -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- post, thus giving them more support and showing your alliance and your knowledge and your savvy and social. So make sure to apply that to your future potential clients. Anne: Excellent advice, Laya. Laya: Thanks. Anne: Thank you. Wow. All right, well BOSSes, I'm sure again, we can go on to part two of modern social media. So guys, be aware now in social media, try to have a -- adopt a mindset that allows you to service your client, your potential client, and showcase you in the most authentic light. Laya: Absolutely. Thank you, Anne. Good talk today. Anne: Yeah, really great talk. Big shout out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and -- Laya: Thanks, BOSSes. Anne: -- we'll see you next week. Bye! Laya: Bye-bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to Coast connectivity via ipDTL.

You may be busy carving the turkey and making holiday shopping lists, but have you really spent time considering what makes you grateful? In this episode, Anne and Laya reflect on gratitude during the holiday season, covering how to tastefully thank clients during the holidays + how the concept of gratitude can help you reframe negative experiences, elevate your business, and improve your relationships like a #VOBOSS!. Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, along with my very special guest cohost Laya Hoffman. Hey girl. How are you? Laya: Yay. And Hey, BOSSes. It is so good to be back chatting with you, of loving our conversations and just let's keep it flowing. We got so much to talk about. Anne: Well you know, my calendar has reminded me, for some people, there's a holiday here that is Thanksgiving. Laya: Oh yes. Anne: And I thought to myself, you know what? It may just be one day on the calendar, but for me every day needs to be Thanksgiving. And I thought it would be a great opportunity to start talking about attitude of gratitude and how that can help our modern mindset and our businesses on a day-to-day basis. Laya: And I'm so glad we are, because it seems like such a small thing, or maybe even, I don't know, cliche in a way -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- to like act from a place of gratitude, but it is really the core of my business. And I believe helps center myself and my whole family to keep us on track and keep us grounded every day. So I'm glad you -- we're talking about it today. Anne: Totally agreed. And so I think that I have some things that I do that, that help me express my gratitude and make sure that I'm thinking about that on a day-to-day basis. And I'm asking, what do you do to express your gratitude or to think gratitude? I know what I do when I wake up in the morning. I really try every day to think about what I'm grateful for. And I just take a moment, take a deep breath and give thanks. And usually I have my loving husband around, my family of cats, and I always, whenever I see them, I just smile and I'm very grateful. And that just helps me to just be grateful for everything that I am fortunate to have in my lifetime. What about you? Laya: Yeah. You know, that's great. It's really just about being present and looking around, even if that's the simplest act of gratitude you can incorporate in your day. For us, we've taken it to a family level and a way to try to cultivate more gratitude and appreciation from the core for our daughter. So at dinner every night, we say, what are your gratefuls? You know, we're not a religious family for all intents and purposes. I'm Jewish. My husband, we're, we're a little loose in the religious space, and that's okay because our spirituality is really gratitude based. And so we say at night, while we're just sitting around having conversation, we say, let's do our gratefuls tonight. And we go around the table, and we say what we're grateful for. Anne: I love that. Laya: And sometimes it's the small things -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- like how beautiful the weather was today, or this breeze you felt, or it's the big stuff, you know, a big win or the opportunity to use our voice for good every day. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Laya: That's something we often talk about. My husband has another cool tip. I love that you say your family is included in this too, whether it's your cats or your partner -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- but my husband actually has an alarm on his phone that is a gratitude check-in every day. I think his is two times a day. And it's just -- Anne: I love that. Laya: -- something that a beep that goes off. Yeah, right? And sometimes when it's just him, I guess he just envisions it in his mind. But if we're around he's like, all right guys, gratitude check-in, and we just rattle off three quick things. It helps you get focused. Anne: Oh, I love that. Laya: Like really remember what's important, especially if you're having kind of an off day, right? Anne: Absolutely. And like you said, even just the simple things like this morning, right before, right before getting on ipDTL with you, bacon. I am grateful for bacon and my husband who cooks it for me. Laya: I'm grateful for that too. Anne: Something, something is as small as that, but I think -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- you know, it really helps to translate it to the larger picture, and it helps to really translate it into your business as well. And I think sometimes, I've been doing this for so long, you know, you tend to forget sometimes that it is a privilege to be able to literally roll out of bed, and, you know, walk over to my studio, and -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- do this job that I love on a day-to-day basis. And I know it sounds like you said, I don't want to sound cliche, but it's true. I think we just, you know, everybody -- Laya: It's a gift. Anne: -- that brings up the gratitude at this time of the year or every day, it is something that is so important to be grateful for. And I know that, you know, we've talked about social media and how sometimes that can turn like sour and -- with reading comments, and I don't know, arguments discussions. I think if we start to approach our businesses with gratitude and maybe just push that out, manifest that out to the universe. And that's even in our social media, because that represents our business. Laya: Absolutely. Anne: There's so many eyeballs looking at us, and it amazes me because I try to put myself in my potential client's position while I'm reading Facebook posts. And I'm like, wow, there's so many people that are like, they're miserable, you know? Or they're not happy, or they're, they're complaining about where are the jobs? They don't know how to get the jobs or whatever. They're posting out there into the universe. And I think, gosh, if I were a potential client, I don't know if I'd want to work with this person. Laya: Right. Anne: Yeah. I think it just really speaks to your brand if you are expressing gratitude. Laya: Yeah. And you've hit on so many things that I just want to chat about with you -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- because you've totally hit the nail on the head. Think about it. If your words are energy, your thoughts are energy. They turn into words. They come from the heart. It puts this energy out there in the world. And whether you believe in manifestation or the power of attraction or anything like that, say what you will, that puts out an energetic force field around you. And so if you're coming from a place of misery, you're going to attract more misery. Anne: Yup. Laya: If you're coming from an abundant mindset, you're going to attract more of that. Now, if you apply that social media, right -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and all the eyeballs on you, and you're griping, you've just doubled, tripled, you've magnified the negativity instead of magnifying the positivity. Anne: Yeah. Laya: Which is why in almost every one of my posts, my hashtag has always been for years gratitude is the attitude, love what you do, because I really do. This is a gift we're given here, no matter where you are on the trajectory or in your career. It's a gift to be able to use your voice and get paid for it -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and cultivate someone else's story. And there's no better way to show your appreciation than knowing it. Anne: And if it's genuine, right? Laya: Yeah. Anne: And I'm just going to say, there are those people who will actually kind of poke fun at the people who are hashtag gratitude, hashtag blessed, hashtag -- you know, that has become something that I have seen. And I think that that's honestly, I think that's a little bit sad. Laya: Yeah. Anne: Because if somebody is expressing and it's truly authentic -- I don't want to say it's truly authentic. Some people, maybe it's not authentic, but who am I to judge? Right? Laya: Right. Anne: But if I'm posting that, I'm grateful for something somebody's making fun of that or kind of just poking fun at that whole hashtag thing, I'm sad for them. Laya: I agree. Anne: You know? Laya: I am too, because sometimes you do have to fake it 'til you make it. Anne: Yeah. Laya: We don't all have perfect days. We are -- Anne: Isn't that the truth? Laya: -- spiraling in a world of just a new level of anxiety where we're all at right now, especially coming through this pandemic. We're still in it. So sometimes you do have to put it out there and fake it 'til you make it. And sometimes you do have to remind yourself or have other people say, hey, great job. And I prefer to surround myself, especially in social, but in my private circles as well with people that are lifting each other up. Anne: Absolutely. Oh my gosh. Laya: If your tribe isn't also operating from a place of appreciation and respect and support and lifting each other up, then there is something more wrong with their picture. Then there's something sour in their space, and maybe they can't appreciate someone else's success or their gratitude because they're not happy with what's going on for them. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: And I wish there was a different pull there. Ane: Yeah, no. And I try to, even if that is the case, there's always a reason. Right? I think I'm trying to be understanding and gracious for everyone, trying to think that, okay, there's a reason why they're posting this, and it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with me. And so I try not to be angry or toxic at that either the fact that they might post something that is, you know, against, let's say my particular post or making fun of my post or for any reason, I try to just know, we don't know what's going on with anybody from day to day, from time to time. And I'm sure there's many reasons for them to post what they post. And I guess my other question, Laya would be, so how do we extend this gratitude from a business perspective to our clients? I know that I do periodically the year, I'm always expressing gratitude to my clients, and it means a lot to them. I think picking up the phone, believe it or not, and actually contacting my clients. And just, if I'm on the job or asking a question, making sure that I'm always thanking them for their business and really trying to connect with them on a human level to express my gratitude, to be able to work with them. As a matter of fact, I just made a post the other day that, you know, one of my partners in crime, my audio engineer, I love, love, love working with him. And I'm so grateful to know him and to be able to work with him that I, you know, I sent him a, a nice little post, and here's to you, John, thanks so much. Laya: Sure. Anne: I'm grateful to work with you. And it's amazing how many people chimed in. Laya: And lift each other up. Anne: Yup. Laya: And that gives credit and appreciation on a public level. Yeah. And like you said, definitely on that personal level, that one-on-one connection, it just deepens the relationship. Right? Anne: Yeah. Laya: And so to answer your question about how to convey or transmit this positivity, this gratitude into business, I think we need to take a step back as talent. I think back in the day maybe when voice talent were like screen actors, and there was this ego involved, like you walked into a studio, and I don't know, I hear crazy stories about talent from engineers and producers and creatives today that have these horror stories -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- about personalities and negative egos in the studio and how this talent wasn't willing to do this. Like I'm all about setting your boundaries, don't get me wrong -- Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: -- but -- and not being taken advantage of. But if you're the talent that comes to the booth with great appreciation, thanking each person in the session. Thank you for inviting me in. I'm so honored to be working with you today, or that you've brought me back for a particular project. And thank you so much, you know, at the beginning and the end of those sessions, then they will know that you, you know, really mean it -- Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: -- and you're coming from that authentic place, and that you take pride in your work, and you don't take it for granted. And I think people are more willing to bring those type of people back in than those with the ego problem and who couldn't be bothered or don't want to cop to whatever, 'cause we're all human. Right? Anne: Oh, yes. Laya: And that levels the playing field, for sure. Anne: And for goodness' sake, if you didn't have a good session, don't come back and post about it. Laya: Oh gosh. Anne: Just, you know, I, I cannot believe the amount of posts that I see where it's like, oh, I had a horrible session. Or the director drove me crazy. Or the client, for whatever reason, the client wasn't happy. If you can just walk away from that, I think that that really behooves your business -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- because I myself have looked upon those posts, and I'll be -- and in my head, I'll go, ooh, not sure that's a good thing to actually post. Laya: I wouldn't put that on a -- exactly. Anne: And I won't say anything. So I don't think that we can ever have a really true idea of how many eyeballs are actually on that post. And I think we forget that. We become, you know, those brave people behind the keyboard, and just because somebody didn't like or comment on it, don't think that there aren't a thousand other people who've looked at it -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- and made a judgment call right then and there, whether or not they want to work with you again. Laya: Absolutely. Well, the other part of that too is I would encourage BOSSes to consider or reframe those negative experiences to be, hey, what did I learn from this? Anne: Right. Laya: You know, there's a takeaway here that I'm not seeing, or what's going on for me, that I can't see the lesson in this. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And if you can flip those negative situations on their head, that's also a modern mindset as it pertains to the positive takeaway that can be from this. It's something I teach my daughter. So why not put it into practice myself? You know? Not everything has to be so humdrum when it goes wrong. Because if you focus on that, you'll continue to spiral down -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- instead of spiral up and say, you know what? I blew something there. Or they really didn't, you know, they got me beat on this, or I didn't get paid fairly enough or man -- but what is the lesson there? And if you can pull that out, even just one little thing, then you win. Anne: Always a lesson, right? Laya: Yeah. Anne: Always a lesson, even from something that didn't go well. And I don't want to just contain this to just jobs that you've done. I would like to also extend this for any auditions that you do. You know, just -- Laya: Oh yeah. Anne: -- just no talk, just to, there should just be no talk about any auditions because that's even more, I think, on the edge of potentially discouraging people from wanting to work with you. If you're going to complain about an audition or complain about the audition specs, even if you're on a pay-to-play and you're not getting auditions, I honestly, I just, I stay away from any of that type of chatter on social media, even in the groups that you think are closed and personal, and you know -- Laya: You never know. Anne: You never know who's in that group and who's looking, or it could be somebody that, you know, in the group that then ultimately private messages their friend, who happens to be a casting director -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- or their friend who happens to be a potential client. And it happens all the time. How many times, right, do we read something and then maybe post something in Messenger to our friend or text somebody and say, oh my gosh, did you see that post? Or did you hear what he said? And honestly, that's just what happens. And I think that's what I think keeps me in social media control. But the other thing too, it also keeps me cognizant of being grateful and looking at, oh, look at this. I don't know. I don't think, I don't agree with that. I think that that's, that's spreading toxicity for me. It just gives me a good old reminder that let's just be grateful for everything. And I'll tell you, I mean, gosh, I'm the last person to say I have perfect days all the time. It may seem like it, you know? I don't necessarily want to present negative things, but I'll present things that I think have a value to people, that aren't, you know, necessarily being toxic. If I don't have a good day and I share it and I think it will help people, yeah. I'll share that, but I'm not necessarily going to complain about an audition or a job or a potential client to really kind of put a stain on my brand. Laya: And you hit the nail on the head is where my train of thought was going, Anne. It is the integrity of your brand. You are your brand. Anne: Yup. Laya: So the integrity of your brand is being put out there. And would you like the integrity of your brand to be compromised by your complaint or your attitude or negativity or your lack of gratitude for these opportunities that we're given on a daily basis when so many are not? I mean, that to me is one of the most profound things about gratitude is what you can do with, with the positivity and with a different frame of mind, as we've been talking about during this entire thing. To have the opportunity to just talk for a living in the privacy of our homes, when so many are really struggling out there, especially coming out of a pandemic. I don't know about you, my business had a boost during the pandemic because of these capabilities. How cool is that? How grateful are we? Right? And so I encourage everyone to keep that positive spin upwards, and also keep your projection outwards positive so you can attract more positivity. Anne: Absolutely. And again, I'm going to go back to when you are talking to your clients that you have currently. You know, there's nothing wrong with just sending them a note or picking up the phone, or I think that that probably almost means more than let's say a gift. 'Cause usually around the holidays, we all talk about what do you send your clients? Do you give a gift? How do you express your appreciation? Sometimes it's just really picking up the phone or taking the time to write a personalized note saying, you know what? I love working with you and why, and it doesn't have to be flowery professional language. It can be like, you know what? Your brand is so cool or I love your product. It means the world for me to be able to work with your company. And I love how easy you make it for me, and all those things that really compliment the person that hires you, the person that writes that check. And it can be, I think if you delve a little bit deeper than, you know, a surface thank you for your business, right, that's going to really mean a lot to the person 'cause we're connecting on a human level. And I think if we can push ourselves to go to the human level and just say maybe that one thing that just says, you know what, I love your product. And thank you for giving me the opportunity. You make it so easy for me to love your brand or whatever it is that compliments the person that's hired you or the person that you're communicating with. Laya: Yes. In fact, I have two ideas that are coming to mind right now. And so one, I want to answer the thought of how do you gift or do you gift or show your thanks around the holidays? I personally don't send gifts, hard goods. Right now, we're in a pandemic. Things have been weird. It's a big cost. And like you said, so many other big companies are doing those types of things. What I like to do is send, you know those e-cards? Anne: Yup. Laya: You can personalize an e-card and it just pops up in their box. It's a little bit different. You can personalize those as you go, and it doesn't cost you anything or maybe a couple of bucks if you want to make it frilly. That's one thing that I've done, and I've found some great feedback from and just deepening the relationship and the connection with our clients. Anne: Yeah. Laya: The other thing is, you really want to show gratitude? One of the best things I've found to do is to go on LinkedIn and leave them a recommendation -- Anne: Oh my gosh, yes. Laya: -- on their page. If you do that -- they're of course going to see it, but their colleagues are going to see it. And not only that, they're going to see your name as a voice talent and -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- appreciative you are of working with that creative. In fact, I just did this the other day, and it even got me another job. So let me tell you how we did this, real quick. I worked with an excellent director in a session. I couldn't get his last name. It was just not appropriate for me to really dive deep. There was about 18 people on the call, but this guy was so on the ball and so efficient. He was honestly such a pleasure to run this session because of this, the way he was directing. Couldn't find him, but I knew his company, and I reached out to the principals of his company, and I said, hey, I just want to let you know, I just worked with John from your production team. And he was the honest to God the best director I've ever worked with. You're doing a great job over there cultivating killer creative talent. Thank you for making my job as a voice talent easier -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and just left it as that. Can you pass this along to John -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- if you get that message, to go to his boss and give him that compliment? Oh my gosh. Yeah, it was a win-win win-win spreading that gratitude. Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. That's a wonderful idea. I love the LinkedIn idea because it makes it public. And the other day I had one of my interviewees for the podcast for the AI and voice series, they were promoting the podcast and really gave me such kudos and said, thank you so much for the interview. It was wonderful to connect with a former educator -- because this gentleman was also an educator. And just, we were both like elevating each other. Laya: Yes. Anne: And I think it was so nice because I'm like, wow, thank you for what you do for the community and what you're doing for educating people in this industry and -- and all the wonderful work you've done. And I think that that just really generates such great positivity. And, you know, I guarantee you that there will be more leads that will come from that. Laya: Yes. Yeah. And then one other thing I was thinking of while we were talking is how do we convey that even in our social media posts, one thing that kind of gets my goat is when I see creative houses or casting put out the final video and we cast this. Well, who did you cast? Right? We're always looking to get a little bit of credibility for the creative that we put out. And when production teams leave out the voice actor, you know how that feels. Anne: Yup. Laya: And so knowing that from my standpoint, as a business, as a brand, as a human, as anytime I put the information or final product out there with permission, of course, I always make sure to thank all parties -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and tag them appropriately and give them credit publicly for the work they did, because we don't always see the same in return, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do the same for them. Anne: Exactly. Absolutely. Laya: Follow them, engage, like, tag them, use their hashtags in your posts. One, it will increase your visibility. It will further your projection of positivity and show them, whoever they may be listening or watching from their side, hey, that you took the time to follow the right person, tag the right business, and give them credit. Anne: Absolutely. It's all about recognition, right? Laya: Yeah. Anne: And credit -- Laya: Credit is due. Anne: -- because we know it's always appreciated, always appreciated. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So in terms of gratitude, in terms of a daily, I don't know, a daily mantra, do you have anything that you do that we can share with the BOSSes so that they can maybe start to adopt this, if they haven't already done so already? Any, any tips, tricks? I'll start with mine. Laya: Please. Anne: I like writing it down. Writing it down makes a big difference for me to really understand and really feel the appreciation and the gratitude for things that I'm grateful for. And I'll just jot it down in my, and I have a little like journal on a day-to-day basis, and I just keep them as a list. And so if I'm ever feeling, oh gosh, if I'm ever feeling down or just, oh my gosh, what am I even doing the today? I like to go back and look at that list because it really is a great reminder. And it brings me joy -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- to be able to see all those things I'm grateful for and accomplishments that have happened in my business because of that. Laya: Yes, exactly right. Milestones achieved, et cetera. I do another version of that that really just came to me out of sure -- I couldn't contain my pride in myself after a recent job I completed. And so I flipped the camera on myself, and I recorded a note to me that said, this was such an incredible opportunity. Laya, this is what it took to get here. This is what this feels like right now. I am so grateful for that. I saved the video. Maybe I'll post it if I feel cute when the project comes out. Who knows? But I have a folder on my phone, an album that has just snippets of video to myself to remind me when I'm having one of those days that doesn't feel so great to come back to source of like, wow, that really felt good. And see the passion in my eyes, my face -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- my body language and my voice -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- when I knew it and I felt it the most. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: That's a great tip. I love writing it down. I usually jot down three things in the morning as well in my journal when I'm doing my Kundalini yoga practice. And then, like I said, the nightly round table with the fam brings everybody together. We'll even do it when we've got guests or visitors coming over. Makes everybody feel a little awkward at first, but it resets the mood, enlightens the levity. And when you bring people into that space -- Anne: Oh gosh, yes. Laya: -- they're like, oh yeah. Gratitude is the attitude. Anne: When I've done that, I've never had anyone complain. Laya: No. Anne: As a matter of fact, just the opposite. It's been like, wow, what an amazing, thank you so much for that. And what an amazing dinner. And everybody walks away feeling good. And I, I like that too, because in my family growing up, my family was never one to talk or open up about their feelings. Laya: Sure. Anne: I would always be that person. You couldn't shut me up. Laya: You don't say. Anne: I mean, so obviously I became a voice talent. Yeah. Laya: Right. Anne: So, but you know, during Thanksgiving I would start to do that. I would say, all right, guys, we're going to go around the table and say what we're grateful for. And I remember the first time I did it, everybody was like, huh, kind of awkward. Laya: Yeah. Anne: But as we went along, it just started to pick up momentum -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- and it was really a beautiful thing to see. And like I thought, oh my gosh, I didn't think I could really talk heart to heart with my father. Right? He was always like, you know, the quiet one that went to work, and you know, this is showing you how my family is a little bit old school. Right? My father went off to work and didn't say much. My mother was the one that kind of stayed home with the kids, made the food and the dinners. And so when we started, as we were getting older, and things were changing and evolving, when I started doing that, it was really wonderful to hear what my father had to say, what he was grateful for and what my brothers had to say, when traditionally, we didn't really talk on that level to one another. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So I love how it just opened up the space and allowed for a lot more love to flow. Laya: Yes. Anne: Just a lot more positive feelings and all good stuff. Laya: Yeah. How beautiful is that, right? Anne: Yeah. Laya: So no matter how our BOSSes are celebrating this year or what these belief systems that you are -- or you've cultivated, maybe sit down and say, hey, what's everybody's gratefuls? And if it makes everyone a little uncomfortable at first, start with three. Anne: Yeah. Laya: Get the conversation going and put yourself out there and feel vulnerable. Right? Brene Brown says our vulnerability is the key to unlocking success and happiness and positivity and love and -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- therefore, abundance. So you know, that gratitude will build on an abundant mindset, which will build on your business. Anne: Yeah. Absolutely. Well said, Laya. It has been a wonderful, wonderful episode. I am so grateful. I am very grateful to have you as a special guest co-host for these sessions. And I am truly loving our conversations as well. So thank you for that. BOSSes -- Laya: Thank you, Anne. Grateful for you and all these opportunities and your listeners out there, way to level up. Thank you. Anne: Grateful for our BOSSes, I am also grateful for our sponsor ipDTL. You too can connect and network like a BOSS and express your gratitude through the awesome connectivity that is ipDTL. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week, grateful for all of you. We'll see you next week. Laya: See you guys. Take care. Anne: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

You know your favorite brands stand out, but do you know yourself well enough to blend your business & creative persona into cohesive fonts, colors, and branding? If not, Anne & Laya are here to help! In this episode, they’ll explain how to put your best virtual foot forward through introspection,crowdsourcing, and (most importantly) acting like the #VOBOSS you already are. More at https://voboss.com/modern-marketing-101-with-laya-hoffman Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am here with my very special guest cohost, Laya Hoffman. Laya, thanks for joining me again in this new series on modern mindset. I'm so excited to have you. Laya: Yeah, thanks, Anne. It's been great so far, love being back, and I'm super grateful for the opportunity. Thanks for having me. Anne: Yeah. So we've been talking about modern mindset, and our last few episodes, we're talking about just in general, having a modern mindset towards your business, as well as towards your health. Laya: That's right. Anne: I'm thinking we have to touch upon everyone's Achilles heel. Maybe not everyone's. I mean, I happen to like marketing, but we should talk about a modern marketing mindset because you have a background in marketing. Laya: Yeah, that's right, Anne, I sure do. I'm a former creative marketing agency partner. And, uh, after that I was the vice president of marketing for a major beauty brand that was a global brand and in the professional hair care line. So it's definitely a different field, but a lot of similarities as it pertains to branding identity, marketing, SEO, outreach, and just overall good client engagement in this new modern world. Right? And when we talked about that earlier, it's just, how do you approach that differently? It's a lot different than we were taught in college or in textbooks and things. Anne: Oh, for sure. Laya: You gotta adapt. Anne: And also I think it's important. I think it's great that you have real-world marketing experience from before -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- and even leading up until modern times, because I think as creatives, if you did not come from that environment, it's hard to know even where to begin for marketing. I mean, that's -- most students that are just starting out when they're talking to me, they're like, oh my God, can you please just tell me, like, how do I even start to market myself? Laya: Sure, sure. Anne: So let's kind of start there. I think that for people just entering into the industry, as well as let's say, industry veterans, we still have to spend a considerable amount of time marketing ourselves because I'm always trying to find that next great client, because today's client is never promised. Laya: Absolutely. And you got to stay fresh and stay current. And a lot of that comes down to knowing who you are as a person, as a creative and what that means as a brand. Right? And so how can you package all your skills and your specialties in this brand? And I got scared by that too, even as an ex-marketer coming into the entrepreneurial space and being a one person show. Anne: Yeah. Laya: It's really hard to talk about yourself, and I can do it for everybody else. I can package everything else in a boat. Talking about yourself feels totally bonkers. Anne: Right? Yeah. Big difference. Laya: And then you figure out your brand, which is a very scary place to sit. And there's a lot of great experts, even in our industry, that focus on that, creating a brand for your voiceover, but you certainly have a great one. And you know, you know, you've got colors, you've got the BOSS vibe, you know, you know what your specialties are. You know what Anne Ganguzza means in the industry because you've done an excellent job branding. And I think -- Anne: Well, thank you. Laya: -- for a lot of us that -- you're welcome -- that's the starting point. And it's kind of a scary place to start, but if you don't know your brand, how you gonna know the next step to market, right? Anne: Yeah. That makes sense. So then the very first step then before you can market something, right, is to really have something to market and to really be fully aware of your brand. And I know that that makes sense, when people come to me also for coaching, whatnot, you have to have a demo, right? You have to have something that you can market and then applying that brand to that product. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And so what are your first steps in branding yourself? It's a tough one, right? Laya: Yeah, it is. It's takes a lot of looking inward. Right? And figuring out if you just sat down with yourself and thought, what do I really like in life? What do I get excited about? What brands do I identify with because I feel like they align with my ethos or my moral compass or how I carry myself in the world? I like to start there because it's a lot easier, again, to identify yourself or where you find a parallel with other like-minded brands or people you look up to, or what have you. That's a great starting point because then you can draw from inspiration. You know, for instance, I like extreme sports, snowboarding. I love connecting in nature. So what are some of those brands I like. What do I love to do on the side? Music, deejaying, parenting, but like in a holistic space, but I'm also very fun. I love color. I love to keep it fresh and like little rock and roll, a little street. So those types of things are kind of where I started to find out how I could position my own brand identity, and then find similarities among brands that I also identify with. Does that make sense? Anne: Absolutely. I think it's also important to engage others maybe in terms of how they perceive your brand. Laya: Great point. Anne: And I know that there's a lot of people that will say, hey, I'm doing some branding work. Can you tell me a little bit about how you hear me, how you see me? Laya: Yes. Anne: What does my voice sound like? What are those adjectives? And interestingly enough, I've done enough of those. I personally haven't done enough of those, but I, I have researched myself, but asking your friends, asking -- Laya: Crowdsourcing, right? Anne: -- I think probably, yeah, absolutely, crowdsourcing. I think that asking your clients, if you have any clients now, how they perceive your voice, if they could describe it. I think that's a, a wonderful place to ask outside of your voiceover friends. I think it's important to try to hit up any clients that you have already and just say, hey, by the way, if you had to describe my voice in three words, what would those words be? Laya: Absolutely. So it's interesting because you can also take your personal interests and then align them with your vocal qualities and you can, and I would even suggest specifically not going to people within the industry, but people that don't normally call these things out. Then you're not hit with the same descriptive word either. Anne: Sure. Exactly. Laya: Right? That's kind of a cool approach to create some sort of amalgamation of where the starting points are for your brand. And then what images do you identify? You know, if you had three emojis that could describe, you know, who you are, what you love -- Anne: Well, that's a good question. Laya: -- you know, what, what are some of those icons look like? You know, just, just, just ideas to get the creativity flowing, to try to create. And it doesn't have to be a moniker or -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- a tag line necessarily. Anne: Exactly. Laya: I think we get really wrapped up in that. It can just be how you want to present yourself in the world in your headshot -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- or with the color scheme on your website. It doesn't have to be super elaborate. It can be, and that's catchy. But I think these days, you don't necessarily need a theme to have a brand about yourself. Anne: yeah. I love that you said you don't need a tagline. I'm like right there with you. And as a matter of fact, I had a tagline like a long time ago when I first started, and it didn't really associate with me at all. It was just kind of just because I felt like I needed to have one. And so I love that you said, I don't think you need to have one, because as a matter of fact today, I don't really have one. If you go to anneganguzza.com, I'm more just about the colors and the fonts and just the, the look of the page and my photos. And I know you also have some really wonderful, expressive colors and photos -- Laya: Hey, thanks. Anne: -- for your brand as well. And I think that that's super effective when somebody comes to your website, and I will say, we have talked about branding, and I think that branding needs to go somewhere. Obviously the first place would be, right, where do people come to find out about you, your website, which is so very, very important and probably your virtual storefront, where everybody kind of gets to know you, that in addition to your social media. Laya: Absolutely. Anne: So that brand can carry over into both your website and your social media. So it's important to have a sense of identity, a sense of who you are, but it's also important for you all to know that it doesn't have to stay that way -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- or it can evolve it. Laya: Absolutely. Anne: My brands have evolved over the years. And if I were to show you what Anne Ganguzza brand looked like even just five years ago, well, a little further, it's completely evolved. Laya: Yeah, me too. Anne: And my colors have changed. Laya: That's right. 'Cause we change, right? Anne: Yup. Laya: Like I wasn't the same person I was 20 years ago -- Anne: Exactly. Laya: -- and I'm definitely not the same talent I was five or 10 years ago, as it, you know, pertains to my business and how I carry myself in the world. We're not even the same cellular composition as we were seven years ago. Anne: Sure. Laya: So that's totally true and something to really drive home, because we get really caught up in it. Do I need a logo? Do I need a tagline? Anne: Yup. Laya: Do I need a theme? Do I -- no! You just need to be you. And you might be similar to anything that identifies with you, but even just clean fonts, modern, clean lines, colors that resonate with you, that make you feel good when you look at what you've created, and if it feels good energetically to you, then that's really all that matters, because that's the most authentic way to connect with others that want to find you, right? So. Anne: I totally agree with that. And I, and I also want to say something about, there's always been this, this mindset, or I'm going to say maybe an older mindset about, do we put photos of ourselves on our websites, because we are voice talent, right? Laya: Yeah. Anne: And we may or may not want to be cast based upon our appearance as we are just voice artists. Right? Laya: Sure. Anne: And I'm that person that says, I want to connect with my client. And I feel like my client can connect with me if they can see a picture of me and not a picture of my logo. Laya: Yeah. Yeah. I absolutely agree with that, Anne. I think if you're comfortable, and you've got pictures that are clear in quality, or maybe you've even invested in some lifestyle photos -- Anne: Right. Laya: -- I had, because I knew that I wanted to put my best self forward, but that you could see it in my eyes who I was, who are, you know, you could see my pride in my eyes and my smile. And I want people to know that when they're working with me. We don't get to meet in person. Like we used to, at least not anymore. So if you're okay with that, then I say, put your face forward. Anne: Yeah. Laya: If you're not proud of that, or if you're not really comfortable and that makes you uncomfortable, then absolutely use something more generic. But I'm about using the face. Anne: Yeah, I am too. And I know for my marketing product, the BOSS Blast, a lot of times I will have my clients give me a headshot, because if that email is going out, I am always of the belief that people want to connect with the person, and they want to be able to hire the person. So whenever possible, I encourage my clients for the BOSS Blast to include their headshots so that we can market those as well. So, yeah, I think that's more of a modern mindset today, especially with all of this chaotic digital information that comes flying at us from every direction. And so with this modern marketing mindset, do you have any ideas, advice about how and where do we market ourselves on social media and what platforms? Laya: Yeah. Great point. Anne: I think for everyone, you have to have a website. Laya: Absolutely. Anne: I think in order to exist as a business in today's digital world, you have to have a website. But what do you think about marketing on social media? 'Cause there's so many platforms, like how do you decide which platform to use, which platform to market on? Laya: Well, that's a great question. And if I could step back even just a snooch, I think the website is key. But before, when I was entering as a full-time talent, I didn't want to put myself out there until I had my package kind of complete, because you really do just get 15 seconds to make your first impression -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- even in the digital space. So it was important to me to have a clear picture where you could see to my eyes, you could have, your icons are all the same. I had a home base, even though at the time, I didn't have a whole lot of content for my website. I built my website myself using the Squarespace platform, and I made sure that my email address wasn't a generic email address. You know, it was my name, and it's tied to my website. It's very inexpensive. There are many, many experts that can help you get there. So leading with like your most professional self, as if, I think the modern mindset is really as if you are already the success that you aspire to be. Anne: Oh, I love that. Laya: You need to act as if, and so even if that is just creating a small minimal package for yourself, which is what your color scheme is, your font or your picture, and you've got a home base with a dedicated email address -- it's not, you know, so-and-so at Gmail -- then, then you're presenting yourself as a pro from the beginning. Anne: I agree. Laya: And that's the important first step, I think. Anne: I do just want to touch on that particular thing. I happen to notice reading some of the threads on Facebook, that there was somebody who said, why is it that I'm seeing all these Gmail addresses? And there were a lot of people who were saying, why? Everybody uses it, and myself, I agree with you. I tend to think if you're a serious business, you're going to have a domain name -- Laya: Right. Anne: -- that is a part of your business. And you should have an email that is part of your business name. Laya: Yes. Anne: And I think if you just like so-and-so VO at Gmail, I think that it doesn't showcase a serious enough business. Laya: It doesn't seem like you're taking your business seriously -- Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: -- to me, to me. Anne: Right. Laya: And I say that not just about voice actors, but if I'm hiring a contractor, if I'm hiring -- Anne: Oh, me too. Laya: -- I don't even know, any number of other industries that are self-driven or entrepreneurial. If that person hasn't taken the time to showcase their skills, in this day and age, and taken the $20 a year that it may cost to get them a special domain name and a, you know, an email address that goes with that, what other parts of your business are you not taking this seriously? Our client interaction, my dollars I'm spending on you? That's what that says to me as it pertains to that modern mindset. I think it's just one extra step. Make yourself the pro that you are, or that you aspire to be and fake it 'til you make it, but get, get yourself that package first, before you even think about going on social media and saying, look at me, look what I do here I am. Let me get a new client. I think that's base line one. Anne: You also mentioned too, well, fake it 'til you make it, but having that website, even though you may not have a lot of content to put on that website, I think that's something -- Laya: That's okay. Anne: -- I want to touch on. And yes, I want to tell everybody, all those BOSSes out there, it is okay. Laya: Absolutely. Anne: Everybody starts somewhere. And a lot of people that talk to me, if they're worried about, well, I don't even know what to write. Well, I think that when you're just starting off, you've got to be able to establish your brand, as we've talked about. Also have that product viewers that you can market, which is a great demo, a great sample that showcases your voice. And in terms of the content you're going to put on it, I was always of the, well, I'm manifesting success. Laya: Yes. Anne: So I'm going to create that website. I'm going to create that verbiage as if I am already have been in business for 20 years. Laya: Yes, absolutely. Anne: And so what can you do to fill up that content? There's a good question. What would you do to fill up that content, Laya? Laya: I would tell my story authentically and just, you know, leverage the experience that you have had in life. Maybe it's in the medical industry, maybe it's in marketing, maybe it's in beauty or automotive, or wherever your background sits, there is relevance in your business now. And I think people are more interested than ever to connect with your most authentic self. Anne: Yes, yes. Laya: And so we'll talk about that as it pertains to social media. But you know, even if it's like, I found my love for this and I love being home with my family and I love telling your story, and I'm learning as I go, and I'm investing in myself, and I will take great care in investing in you and your story. Anne: Sure. Laya: And even if it's just a minimal little blurb that just says who you are, where you came from, and why you're here -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- that's okay. You'll be able to build on that as you go -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- you know? Anne: Absolutely. Laya: Hopefully one day you'll be like Anne Ganguzza. You're building a new website. Anne: Yeah. Laya: So lots of content as you develop -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and you can continue to nurture and grow that. I would say being apart of your website and your content development is a weekly process. I mean, I'm, I always got my hands in my website. You're constantly tweaking and adding. So it doesn't have to be this set in stone thing -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- but even just the basics, your contact information -- Anne: Agreed, agreed. Laya: -- front and center. Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: Your sample demo above the center -- Anne: Above the fold. Above the fold. Laya: Above the fold. And as you go, you can continue to build on that. Anne: Well, and you know, what else I'm going to touch upon too, is a good bio, right? Talking about your space, why you're here, what you're passionate about in terms of how can that passion help the potential client. Laya: Yeah. How can you be in service? Anne: Exactly. Focus on the how you can be of service to them. And also in regards to experience, there's a lot of people say, well, I don't have any experience yet. I have never done a voiceover job. Well, your experience, your life experience -- Laya: That's right. Anne: -- your career experience, a lot of times corporate experience. For me, you know, when I just started off, I had had a lot of experience recording telephony and welcome messages and phone trees. And for me, that was where I was able to put my experience level. You know, I had recorded thousands of telephony and IVR prompts. And so that became part of my experience. Nobody needed to know that I did it for my company -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- and that they didn't pay me for it because I wasn't lying. Laya: That's not the story. Anne: Right? That's not the story. But I, you know, but I absolutely had voiced thousands of prompts. And so think of what you have already done experience-wise in your life that can lend to your experience that can again be of service to the client. Laya: Absolutely. Anne: And that will be good content. And I love that you said -- Laya: Parenting, but like -- Anne: -- every week keep tweaking it. That's important because we grow, we evolve, and also it keeps your website fresh so that it makes for good SEO as well. Laya: Absolutely. Anne: Things keep changing. So. Laya: Yeah. And we can talk about that in future episodes because SEO is a very, very key part of being found in search, but you don't have to focus on that in the beginning. Anne: No. Laya: Now, if you were, you know, fully established and you already have your content, then I think it's definitely a great time to invest in partners that have current and modern training in SEO and development, because there are a lot of people that you can find that can help supplement your site with blog posts, or maybe you're a great writer already. I know several excellent talent that are phenomenal blog writers and contribute often to their website. That's not me. I'm not the best writer, but it was a, some of my friends like Kelly Buttrick always says, "what you can't do, you can pay somebody else to do." So, you know -- Anne: Ain't that the truth. Laya: -- there's other options. What you're not great at, outsource. Anne: Oh yes. Laya: That's a modern mindset too, for sure. Anne: I love that. Laya: Yeah. You can keep adding to it. It doesn't have to be set in stone, and there's many ways to skin that cat, for sure. Anne: Yeah. The whole outsourcing is another, it's very much a modern mindset -- Laya: Yeah. You don't have to do it all! Anne: -- for voice talent. Laya: Wow, isn't that a revelation? Anne: What doesn't bring you joy, guess what? Laya: Right. Someone else -- brings dollars to somebody else. Anne: Uh, my accountant is very happy that I pay her on a monthly basis -- Laya: Lots of joy. Anne: -- for her to do her job. She loves it. She loves numbers, and I'm like, I am happy to give you joy -- Laya: Yes, exactly. Anne: -- on a monthly basis, and you do what you do best because that is not something that brings me joy. So, and I say over and over again, I think I must have mentioned it at least 20 times on my podcast, that was one of the best investments I ever made -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- was to outsource my accounting. So. Laya: And that's a great new mindset -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- because we don't have to do it all. Yes, you see all those funny memes about being the entrepreneur, the solopreneur who wears all the hats. Anne: Yeah. Laya: But if some of those hats itch your head and make you crazy -- Anne: Yes! Laya: -- then like kick it off, friend, because somebody else can do that. And honestly -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- your time may be more valuable and better served doing something else in your business. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: So keep that in mind always -- Anne: Yep. Laya: -- whether it's website development or, you know, blog content or anything. Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- accounting, you know, so that's very key. Anne: Doing things that bring you joy. Those will be the things that do not feel like they are work. So let's continue on the modern mindset of the marketing. And I know we can have probably an entire episode on social media, but just to kind of touch upon the subject -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- platforms. I've always been of the mindset that you want to be on the platforms that your potential client is on. And so -- Laya: I would agree with that, but it is an interesting new dynamic that clients are people and humans too. So they're scrolling and wasting their time on social media -- Anne: Just like we are. Laya: -- just like the rest of u,s and they're scratching their heads. Anne: Yup. Laya: And so it's interesting how you stumble across new clients or new interactions. I think whatever platform you feel most comfortable on is the one that you can put your energy on. Anne: Sure. Laya: For me, I'm a little bit of an older generation, is -- like in my early forties, I can't believe I have to say that, but it's true. TikTok doesn't resonate with me, right, and Snapchat never really resonated with me, but I know tons of talent that have had incredible success and views on TikTok. Look at Heidi Ruin, Atlanta -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- Voiceover Studio, for instance, and that whole like -- Anne: Oh, absolutely. Laya: -- voiceover battle. They saw a huge uptick in views and followers. I don't know if that converted to clients for them. For me. I actually do see client conversion on Instagram, and Facebook -- Anne: Oh, absolutely. Laya: -- and LinkedIn and Twitter. I don't tweet a whole lot, but I make sure that my accounts are linked. So I have presence there. I don't nurture relationships there, because it's not my strong suit on that platform. But I do nurture relationships on Instagram, LinkedIn, and Facebook. And I derive clients from there because I'm just enjoying their content. I care less about putting mine out there, although I am somewhat consistent. It is a pain in my butt, and I still do it anyway. So I stay relevant, but I think it's most important to engage with them. What are they into? What are they liking? Anne: Sure. Laya: Cheer them on, make a comment in a post and a like on what your clients are most into, and you will stay top of mind just by default. You don't have to be like, "hey, look at me -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- you got another job for me?" No, just cheer them on. That is an authentic way to connect socially. Anne: You know, and it's interesting. Top of mind is so, so important in marketing. And by the way, I just want to add in YouTube -- Laya: Oh yeah. Anne: -- in terms of the social media place where you might want to be, just because of the good SEO value. I've recently started a channel -- Laya: Vimeo too, actually. Anne: Yeah. Recently started a channel where I've got some content out there. I do blog. It is painful for me. It's painful for me. Laya: I feel your pain. Anne: I do it. But there's all sorts of reasons why I go through the pain, because you know, I've got something to say. And even though I'm not the best writer in the world, it's really difficult to find a writer. Although I've searched, trust me, I have searched, not to necessarily outsource, but to at least get a bare bones blog happening for me, from my ideas, but it's difficult because they're not in my head. And so. Laya: And they're not the expert. You are the expert, and your clients and fan base appreciate your expertise and you sharing that expertise as you do on the show and in a blog post. And I think if you take that expertise and pull it into a LinkedIn post, or a tweet, or a Facebook post -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and somebody identifies with that or shares it with someone, and they see it, that just gives you more credibility. So as long as that comes natural to you, and it's authentic, it's going to resonate with others as well. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm glad that you, you were talking about being on the platforms that your clients are on because they like to just get sucked in just like the rest of us. Laya: Yeah. Anne: Because I, I noticed recently there's a lot of people are that they're all about LinkedIn. There's so much to talk about with social media -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- with just so many platforms and sometimes not all of the stuff that's flying around there is not healthy at times. And so -- Laya: So you got to manage your borders and boundaries -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- even in social media, for sure. Anne: Absolutely. And there's so many people that are like, okay, I'm just going to do LinkedIn, or I'm just going to do this platform. So I think we only have so many hours in the day. And so I think in terms of, you know, you've got to come up with that balance. You've got to, like I say, listen more than talk a lot of times. And sometimes things like, let's say, videos that you put on YouTube that may or may not talk about your voiceover business, but a passion of yours, similar to a podcast, right, that could be about a passion of yours, by default are helping put your brand out there and helping people, potential clients get to know who you are and keeping you top of mind. And those are, I think important, probably the most important things that your potential client will help keep you top of mind, right? Laya: Absolutely. Anne: If they're watching you on YouTube or they're hearing you on a podcast, and you're not necessarily selling them your voiceover services, but they are getting to know you as a person and then saying, you know what, I'd really like to work with that person -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- because it is a meeting where they're hearing your voice, but you don't have to be like, hey, I'm a voiceover artist. Hire me. Laya: Yeah. You don't have to always be like, look at me and look at what I do for work and my en- -- I mean, some people dedicate their entire Instagram account to their voiceover business or, you know, or only keep it private and don't let their clients in. There's that too. So it's really up to the individual person. For instance, I don't share a lot of my work on Facebook. I'm not very active on Facebook anymore, but it's, I use it as a touch point to connect with my friends and family. Instagram, definitely more work, professional, business heavy, but I also show some of the personality in there. On LinkedIn, I try to keep it more professional -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- less about my personal life. However, I like to share ideas in the industry. If I have nothing to say, I love to share other clients' content, may or may not have anything to do with me, but achievements they've had cheering them on, or advancements in the industry, new technologies, to get the conversation started, and to show my clients or the people that I'm connected with that I am staying top of mind by being relevant and educating myself, and sharing quality content in our same space. And so just depending on which platform you're at and how that feels to you and who your audience is, you kind of can tailor and tweak accordingly. That's my personal strategy. And you know, it works for me. So. Anne: Wow. Good stuff. We could probably talk about this for hours. Laya: And we will. Anne: And we will. Laya: Let's do a social podcast -- a social episode next, I think. Anne: Yes. I think a social episode is absolutely coming up next for us. So in the meantime, BOSSes, try to develop, evolve, create, understand your brand. Make sure you've got something wonderful out there to market yourself and keep that modern mindset while you are doing so. Laya: Yes. Anne: I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor ipDTL, because they are of a modern mindset -- Laya: Absolutely. Anne: -- using the latest technology to allow us to connect like BOSSes. You can find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week -- Laya: Yes, thank you. Anne: -- and we will see you next week. All right. Laya: Absolutely. Have a good one, guys. Anne: Bye-bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Is your yoga instructor on your business expense list? How about an ENT? If not, perhaps they should be. In this episode, Anne & Laya explore the role diet + exercise play in their businesses, how to take a break, and why you should try face yoga (really, it’s a thing!). If you're feeling a sense of business burnout , listen for tips and ideas to help overcome the overwhelming. More at https://voboss.com/modern-wellness-with-laya-hoffman Transcript ​​>> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I am pleased to welcome back to the show special guest cohost, Laya Hoffman. Hey Laya, how are you today? Laya: Awesome. Thanks, Anne, it's so good to be back. I've been loving our conversations so far. You've given so much to the voiceover community. Anne: Thank you. Laya: I have received from you before. So it's just an honor and a pleasure to join you on the show again and continue to share some knowledge of a modern mindset and this business we have. Anne: Absolutely, for sure. So we got into some really amazing conversation in our last episodes about how to prepare ourselves and get ourselves into a modern mindset. And I want to get a little bit deeper into that focus, in regards to vocal health or our actual physical health. Because, you know, with the seasons changing, I know that I need to be able to do a few things to get my voice prepped and ready for being able to perform at my very best. And I know that I have a certain ritual of things that I do to prepare my voice, to be able to have the very best voice that I can. And I was hoping we could have a discussion about that today. Laya: Of course, of course, I totally believe that full body wellness is key to creating a, you know, a sustainable voiceover business, but also to come from the right mindset holistically all, all the way. It's a 360 approach to your wellness, you know. While our vocal chords and our voice is our tool on our instrument, it doesn't happen naturally with flow and with the essence that you need to deliver, if your full body isn't in tune and it really takes a proactive approach -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- and not a reactive approach to doing that. Anne: So very important. Laya: I have learned the hard way. I'm sure we all have, especially during this high anxiety time that we're living in right now, whether, you know, you're on edge from everything that is the pandemic, or the political space, or whatever it is, we need to keep all those things in check so that we can deliver from the right emotional point, and do it in a healthy way, body, mind, soul, emotionally, and all of those things. So I definitely have incorporated some techniques that I keep in my ritual, in my toolkit to continue to, you know, work effectively and keep that balance. Anne: You know what's interesting is that when I'm working with students who are just entering into the business, I give homework, you know, 'cause I'm a teacher. Laya: Sure. Anne: And I love to give homework and I find it -- Laya: I hate giving homework. Anne: -- so interesting because people will tend to -- there's two types of people, right? There's people who will just be very diligent and good about doing their homework. And then there's those people who will wait until the night before and then do all their homework at once. And I'm constantly telling my students that it's important for you to get to know your body, to get to know your performance level and how you are at different times of the day. How do you feel in the morning? How do you feel in the afternoon, or how do you feel in the evening when you're performing in the booth after you've had a full day of stress, because I think it's super important that you get to know your body and how it reacts to stress to, if you're tired, whatever. And it's important for you to get to know that so that when you are a full-time working voice actor, that you can understand, this is a great time, if I can get in the booth now. I'm feeling good, mentally healthy, physically healthy, and I'm in great performance, that you can take advantage of that, and really try to keep yourself in that tip-top shape for whenever you step into the booth. So I think it would be great to talk about what sort of things do you do to get yourself ready for that, Laya? Laya: Yeah. Well, thanks. I feel like I'm a generally healthy person. I'm, uh, in my early forties, I've always been active, always tried to eat fairly clean, be aware. Of course I love to indulge just like everybody else. And I'm not always on my best, but going the distance with voice work in the last few years and being a working mom as well, having a young daughter to tend to, and all the stresses that come with everything around us, I felt the difference between walking in stressed and -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and coming from a place where the mind isn't dialed in. And on the opposite side of that, the difference between walking in, in a, in a fully centered and balanced place. And so I really started to insulate myself and make sure to put up the boundaries that will protect this work and doing that from a multitude of ways. I had a few like little ailments going on that wouldn't allow me to sit or stand for a long time because I had an inflammation in my body and there -- my back would hurt. And then instead of focusing on the copy and the emotional point and the client and the connection with the vibration that's coming out of my soul, it was coming from a place of ache or -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- pain or in the back of my mind, this nagging feeling that, oh, you know, you're just kind of half focused on whatever that is. So to me, it's eating clean. My daughter's got a gluten intolerance, and so we're mostly gluten-free here, but I've also noticed that the grains and the gluten definitely contribute to inflammation in my body -- Anne: Oh my, yes. Laya: -- is, you know -- Anne: There with you. Laya: Yeah, it's all part of the swelling. Anne: Sure. Laya: So, you know, I know when to indulge, but during the week when I'm working, and I create those boundaries where I try to compartmentalize my voice work to a Monday through Friday scenario whenever possible, to give myself vocal rest, also to, you know, have a cheat day and to go off the rails, as my husband would say, or drink a few glasses of wine or whatever. Anne: Sure. Laya: but it's keeping -- it's fueling the body from within, because this is our vessel. You know, a doctor or a carpenter keeps his tools clean, and we need to do the same for our, for our vocal cords in our vocal health. So to me, that starts with eating because it also gives me the clarity. When I'm really firing on all cylinders, I'll eat more of a low carb or ketogenic based diet because the clarity that I'm able to get without -- you know, there's no fog, there's no inflammation. It contributes to motivation and proactivity or productivity that continues to push me forward. You know, it also gives me the clarity to say, hey, it's time to take a break. You need rest. I didn't get enough sleep. You know, go get some fresh air, bust up the day a little bit. And don't grind so hard. Without those things, I'm not making the best decisions. So that's part of my modern mindset when it comes to wellness. It definitely starts with the fuel. Right? Anne: Well -- Laya: -- and then we go from there. Anne: Very, very interesting though that you say that because as I get older, it really makes a difference, the food that I put into my body and especially, I think, as we are progressing, I think there's more and more maybe additives or whatever it is -- Laya: Oh yes. Anne: -- that's being put into the food that is maybe foreign to our bodies. And our bodies might be not used to it, rejecting it, whatever that is. But I do know that I feel a lot better when I'm not eating my beloved carbs. Ah... Laya: For sure, for sure. Anne: I love my carbs, but they do not love me as I've gotten older, and I definitely have inflammation. And that's not comfortable, you know, it's just not comfortable, and I need to be at my best and, and I need to, to perform. And I think it absolutely, you need to fuel your body with nutritious things that can help feed your energy, feed your soul, make you feel good. Laya: Definitely. Anne: And that, coming from that place starting there, then you can perform well. Laya: Yeah. And then I take it a little bit of a step further, and I know you and I share the same passion of going to -- I go to an integrated health practitioner that balances both the Eastern and Western medicine, uh, use my chiropractor, uses kinesiology based muscle testing -- Anne: Oh yes. Laya: -- to dial in my organs, my hormones, my allergies, and I get super, hyper focused or personalized supplements that are very high quality that my body is testing well. And that they're are both beneficial and really positive for what I am lacking in any given month or nutrient deficiency. And he does some cool stuff to get my body ready. Like this ear adjustment that I was struggling with for so long. I didn't know I had a click going on in my ear from TMJ, you know? Anne: Wow. Now I can't say I've had my ears tested, but tell me -- Laya: No? Anne: -- about that. No, I, for TMJ, I've had my jaw adjusted by my chiropractor, which I think is phenomenal. Laya: Yes, it is such a release, right? Anne: He's not adjusted my ear. Maybe I'm going to have to ask him, but tell me about it first. Laya: I didn't know it was a thing, but I just sit there. It's very simple. He puts his thumb in your ear and I turn one way, and he does a little bit of a yank, and it's like all of the tiny little microscopic bones in the ear, it's like sparks are flying out. Anne: A dance! Laya: Yes, it is so -- I was like, ohh! the angels saying, when that happened. You've got to get your guy to do it. It's remarkable. And I think the combination of that and the modality in the jaw -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- really started to alleviate some of TMJ and this click I couldn't get rid of. So that was super helpful for me. Anne: Wow. Speaking of TMJ, I think that might be, uh, an issue for maybe a lot of our listeners. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And I know that my dentist of course prescribed a mouth guard, which does help with that. And I think here, we're doing all this work during the day when we're conscious and breathing and relaxing and meditating. And then all of a sudden, we go to bed at night and then we grind our teeth. Laya: Yeah, why do we do that? I don't know. Anne: And I'm like, why is that? But anyways, I think that that's a super helpful thing, but another thing that my chiropractor does -- and, and again, this is not necessarily the show about chiropractors, but whatever works for you -- my chiropractor, when I get an adjustment, I feel like I've now cleared pathways. Laya: Yes. Anne: And when I clear pathways, it allows me to breathe better, and you talk ears, I talk wrist. So there is a spot on my wrist that I had no idea about that when he adjusts my wrist, I am just, whoa, the angels, you know? Laya: Yes. Anne: The angels sing. Laya: You use it a lot. So it makes sense. Right? Anne: True. Laya: We're editing. We forget about like our ergonomical position and that -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- our wrists, forearms, fingers probably take as much stress if not more as our jaw. So I'm, I'm going to go into mine and ask for a wrist adjustment next time. Anne: And I'll ask for the ear adjustment. Laya: Do it. Anne: And I think also what's important, speaking of ears, is I have a ENT. And to me it's so important I think if you're going to be in this industry. I think it's a great idea to have a doctor that you trust, an ENT that can go -- and, you know, for me, I use them primarily for my ears because for those people that don't know, I've really tiny, tiny ears, and they tend, um, baby ears, actually they have to use pediatric tools to look in my ears. Laya: So funny, like Anne "Baby Ears" -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- Ganguzza, I think, is your new nickname. Anne: Well, I tend to get a buildup of wax. So I have to go into him every three months. Laya: Sure, makes sense. Anne: And I have him just check things out. You know, if, if you've got issues with your vocal chords, you've got issues -- all of stuff, right? Laya: And the inflammation there is going to affect your delivery, absolutely. Anne: So I say a good ENT is also something that I think that BOSSes should consider in terms of maybe a regular, you know, kind of wellness program for the instrument that you use every day. Laya: Absolutely right. Anne: Yeah. Laya: I also go to a massage therapist once a month because -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- that tension, body, mind -- in fact, both my integrated wellness doctor slash chiropractor and my therapist, those are budgeted into my business and -- Anne: Absolutely! Laya: -- they're, in a way, part of the write-off, because this is my tool, and it's very important that I protect that space so that you can have fitness. And what we do -- Anne: Oh my gosh, yes. Laya: -- is a marathon. So you gotta stay healthy all the way through. Anne: I am going to plus one, plus 21, 21,000 for that massage therapist. Laya: Yes. Anne: And as a matter of fact, once a month, I'm part of a membership -- Laya: Same, yeah. Anne: -- where I will go once a week even, because for me, it's important because I've been working a lot during this pandemic. And I'm very grateful and thankful for that. However, it's, it causes me to be a little bit more at my desk than I want to be. So massage, it really helps to keep my body in alignment, keep my muscles stretched and just engaged. I know that a lot of times, like my neck, my upper back suffers because I'm in the chair longer and a massage therapist, it absolutely is considered an investment for me, for my business. Laya: Absolutely. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: And that's how I kind of, you know, quantify that in my business structure as well. It was like, this is part of the integral part of, you know, just running the business. It's like, I've got to do that. I've got to make time for the gym, for exercise, for stretch, for breath work. Now, when it comes to like vocal therapy, you have an awesome product that I think we should talk about. But then -- and then talk about other things that you use for your throat and how to get that going. Anne: Why, thank you. Thank you for bringing that up. Well, actually, I know there's a lot of products that people use, and, and I'm the first to say, whatever works for you in terms of like sprays or throat coat, that sort of thing. But I do have a product that I developed because I was into essential oils, and I had started to become allergic. The, you know, allergy season was upon me, and my voice was getting very raspy. And so I was looking for something that would help. And there's an essential oil that was really helpful to me that I started to check out other products that used use this oil, or just, I started searching on Google for like throat sprays. And I found a recipe for singers vocal spray, and I actually, it was made of essential oils. So I kind of took our essential oils and kind of, you know, adjusted the recipe just a little bit in terms of taste for me, but kept a lot of some of the same ingredients. And so now I make this vocal throat spray, and I have three other products in that line that are made from the essential oils that I sell on all of my websites at Anne Ganguzza, at VO BOSS. So they're all essential oils and distilled water. Laya: I love that. Anne: So the ingredients are listed on the website, all natural listed on the website. I can make no claims that they will make you healthy. However, they help me, and they've helped a lot of people. I have a lot of fans that buy the vocal spray and the other products that I have too. I also have something, an essential oil mixture that you can put a couple of drops in your water to help you, you know, if you've not a water drinker, a lot of people they're like, "oh, I just don't like the taste of water," you can add a couple of drops of this. It gives you a little bit of flavor and it helps to keep you hydrated, so. Laya: Yeah, yeah. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And that's really the key, right? I mean, you can't just drink water -- Anne: Oh my goodness, yes. Laya: -- before your session, right? You've got to drink -- I'll keep a 32-ounce tumbler with me at all times. Throughout the day, I probably drink three or four of them. I go to the bathroom a lot, but I mean -- Anne: So do I. Laya: -- it's good, 'cause it's flushing out the toxins. Anne: Yeah. Laya: It's also keeping you incredibly lubricated. I did make a misstep early on in my career. I was, you know, following other wellness people in an effort to reduce the inflammation and improve my digestive track. I was doing warm water and apple cider vinegar or warm water and lemon in the morning. And I noticed after a week or so, it really strained my vocal cords, stripped the lubricant. And you think, of course -- Anne: Well, it's acidic. Laya: -- that makes sense -- right, of course! And like now it makes sense, but at the time I thought, "well, I'm just centering my body, I'm -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- having a intermittent fasting. And this is kind of soothing my breaking, oh, not really breaking my fast, but warming up my intestines and all of that. Anne: Sure. Laya: Nope. Not the thing to do. So I stopped doing that, and I'm going to have to try your additive, the essential oils, because I love essential oils on the body, to put in the space and make your room what it needs to be. So that's awesome. Anne: I have those too. Yeah. I have, uh, something called the Booth Breeze -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- which is a combination of lavender -- Laya: We all need one of those. Anne: -- and peppermint. Can you imagine lavender and peppermint? Lavender to calm you down, peppermint to kind of like spice you up. And the two of them together are really interesting. So there's lavender, peppermint, I think spearmint in there. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And in reality, I call it the Booth Breeze because you can spray it in your booth for the aroma essence of it to calm you down in -- or to pump you up. But it's also to make you not so hot in the booth. And you know, it's been a hot summer. You can literally, with the spearmint, you know, I mean, and it's not all spear -- you're not spraying spearmint. It's a combination along with the majority of it distilled water, but you can spray that on the back of your neck, and it's a cooling agent, so. Laya: Oh, very cool. Anne: Yeah. So you can use it -- Laya: Literally. Anne: -- for multiple, multiple things. Laya: That's awesome. Anne: So one note that I wanted to talk to you about, the lemon, I -- absolutely lemon is an acid. I love a good glass of lemon water, but I think, yeah, in excess, you probably don't want to do too much of that. Laya: Yeah. Anne: But I don't think they're, for me, I've never had a problem 'cause I haven't done it consistently and a lot. But I will have a day or two where I'll drink lemon water. Laya: Sure. Anne: If I need to, you know, if I'm inflamed, and I need to kind of flush toxins out of my system, it helps me a whole lot. But as long as I chase it with like regular water. You know, they say not to drink coffee, but I love coffee. And so I'm a big drink coffee and chase it with a good, you know, 16 ounces of water. Laya: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That's key, that's key. You know, what I also use is a, I've tried a bunch of nebulizers out there. I don't know if you're familiar with any or you like to use any. They're fun, interesting. Nobody uses -- maybe this is an idea for somebody, hey, maybe you. You're the BOSS that will put this in motion. We need to brand one for voice actors, but the vocal mist nebulizer is a cool portable system that I use, especially after, you know, a long weekend or you go to a concert, you really straining your voice for some reason. Anne: Sure. Laya: Or it's just been a really intense week on the mic. It's so soothing to have that nebulizer and that warm kind of neutral mist in the back of the cords. I found a lot of relief with that. So you need to BOSS brand one for sure. Anne: Maybe, maybe. Laya: VO BOSS brand nebulizer. Anne: I'm going to talk about somebody who I absolute love is, is Nic Redmond -- Laya: Yeah, she has some great exercises. Anne: -- who has -- oh my God, she has wonderful, wonderful things. So if you've not checked her out, she has -- I believe she has a new podcast, right, on it? Laya: Yeah. Anne: Yeah, she's got a -- outside of the VO Social that she does with Laya, she has her own podcast, all about vocal health, so -- and she's a true geek about it and she's amazing. So -- Laya: Yeah, talented, yeah, what a talented -- Anne: Strongly -- Laya: -- individual. Anne: Yeah. Strongly suggest checking out her podcast, and her exercises, and, and remedies as well. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So she's, she's amazing. So I think that's a great resource for everybody. What about physical -- I know you said you do yoga, but what about, is there any physical exercises that you do in the booth, like right before you're going to perform? Because I have a couple of neck exercises that I do. Laya: Interesting. Anne: I'm wondering about you. Laya: I'm always doing some sort of movement and some sort of stretch because we are so kind of complacent in our bodies. I mean, unless you're doing like a high action, a video game or something like that, where you're really moving around, we don't usually have the opportunity to bend and stretch and move. I do a lot of face stretching and exercises, you know, like kind of face yoga where, you know, you're doing the chin stretch -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- or you're really opening up your mouth and kind of blowing air into your cheeks and rubbing your temples, your jaw, your ears, those types of things. I feel like I'm, I'm constantly with my hands all over my face, just, you know, feeling into the modalities there to keep it fluid and keep everything moving. How about you? Anne: Yeah, no, I absolutely. I have some really good -- and of course this, it was my chiropractor -- but also these are not neck stretches that you probably have -- I mean, they're very simple, to take your right hand and put it over your left ear and then, you know, bring your head to your right shoulder. And as you do, as you advance, you know, closer to your shoulder, breathe in. And then when you exhale, go ahead and bring it a little bit closer to your shoulder. I'm actually doing it now. Laya: I can hear it. Anne: And then so as you are exhaling, you're going to be able to stretch that neck even further towards your shoulder. And I do that, you know, to the right, to the left, forward and back, and everything that's, you know, muscles around those vocal cords, I think really is an excellent exercise for you to do because I mean, that's, that's what we need to have warmed up for sure. Laya: Oh yeah, neck rolls all day, every day, I'm here for it. And you forget, you forget how tight or how much tension, how much stress we're holding in there. Anne: Yeah. Laya: What about like affirmations? And do you use any of that, any, any love self-love talk around you visually to kind of keep the mental stimulation? Anne: Why, yes. Absolutely. There's so much to be said for post-it notes. Laya: Yes. Anne: I know we're in a digital world, but -- Laya: No, you've got to see it to believe it, baby. Anne: It's so true! I mean, post-it notes, if, especially if, if you're trying to think performance wise, like maybe you have a, a habit that you're trying to break, a post-it note stuck up in your booth right up in front of you, and you're always looking at it. Or a booth buddy, you know, there's a lot of great coaches out there that will recommend to have a booth buddy. So if you want to feel like you're talking to someone or you've got somebody that you're focusing on, have a picture of someone close to your monitor so that you can be talking to them or talking to your booth buddy, but I think affirmations, absolutely, so that they're constantly there in front of you. Laya: Yeah. Definitely. People feel like a little awkward if you've not done that before, like tell yourself you're kick-ass. But really what I love to do is pull, you know, you mentioned the post-it notes. You can get them in all cute shapes. They don't have to just be squares all over your space, but you know, if you're ever talking, you're in a webinar, or you're talking to a coach, you're talking to a friend, you know, you scribble something down, you can almost turn anything into an affirmation. Anne: So true. Laya: One I've got sitting in front of me is from one of my coaches, Nancy Wolfson. She says, your cool is cool enough. And like, that means so much to me because of our -- Anne: So true. Laya: -- back history. But you know, I don't need to try to be something else when what I've got is already the good -- I've already got the goods because it's uniquely mine, and nobody else has the life experience that brings to this, this voice, in this delivery and this emotional point. And so those little notes give you some like a little gut check, you know, that you're on the right track, and even when you're having a low day, and it's good to see that to believe in and feel it, you know? Anne: I love that we're really delving into the mental aspect of this because whereas we might not have thought about the mental aspect, it really is so -- I don't want to say -- the physical aspect of your vocal cords and that you're warmed up is important, but I'm going to say sometimes the mental could be even more important -- Laya: Absolutely. Anne: -- to your performance and your health. And that is so very important that we're open, and we're okay with spending time on our mental health, so that we can be the best that we can be, and whatever that takes. And it could be post-it notes in the studio, as well as -- and we spoke about this in a previous episode -- you know, having that group of colleagues or friends or accountability buddies -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- that can, you know -- Laya: Your tribe. Anne: -- help keep you -- yeah, your tribe that can keep you in a great, positive mental state, because it's so prevalent in this industry where we deal, I mean, almost rejection, rejection, rejection. Laya: Or comparison. Anne: And that is -- yeah. Laya: And then you know, when you see others on social and there's a lot of -- you start to really second guess things. Anne: Yeah. Laya: It's a mind game. Anne: It is. Laya: But if you're going to be strong in anything, you've got to have that mental mindset, and the modern way to approach that is do it for you first -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- but like get yourself good. And then also know when to take a break, right? Like give yourself the grace to chill and to relax into if you're not having a good day or, you know, you're really tired or you need to listen to your body and give yourself the courtesy and the respect to know when to take it easy, right? Like... Anne: Yeah, know, your body. And I'm giving permission that you do not have to do every single last audition. Laya: Oh gosh. Anne: That, I think, is something -- Laya: Say it again for the people in the back, Anne. Say it again. Anne: One more time. You do not have to do every single audition. I know for a fact, I tell my students this too, that they try to do every -- all their homework at the very last minute. My students are always doing that. And I'm like, you need to get to know your body. You need to get to know your mental state. You need to know "I'm good in the morning after I've exercised or after I've done mental affirmations" or however it is, or maybe after a day of homeschooling, right? How is your body, how is your mental state? Are you able to perform? And I think it's wonderful to be able to do something in the booth every single day at a different time of the day, to get yourself aware of where your performance is good. And then if it's not, what are you going to do to fix that? Right? Laya: Exactly right. Have like a tool bag, right? Like how can you fix it? Anne: Yup, yup. Laya: When you know you're feeling low here, what do you need to do? You got to pull a lever and, you know, deep into that bag and give yourself a break or go out in nature and ground down. Anne: Exactly. Laya: Use your throat spray or drink -- Anne: Or your body hurts? Laya: -- some water, exactly. Anne: -- get a massage or go walk around. I'm constantly telling people, you know what, because it takes such focus to do what we do. And it takes such, you know, to really tell the story, like we're always supposed to do, and we need to really connect. And we're connecting with the copy. That takes a lot of mental effort and that also physically can take a toll on you. So if you need to hop out of the booth for five minutes, shake it off, go pet your fur babies, or, you know what I mean, go have a cracker with, with your child or whatever it is -- Laya: A cracker. Anne: -- that's a carb, sorry. Laya: Don't have the cracker. Anne: Go have a vegetable with your loved one. And you know, there's a lot to be said for that, that, that getting out of the booth and just resetting, getting out into nature, taking a walk, like you were saying. It's such a, such a wonderful way to, to just reset and come back fresh. Laya: Yeah. I think the foundational part of wellness and modern minded approach to this business now is, is that taking care of yourself first is key because that's, you know, that is everything. That applies to, you know, we're in a pandemic. Yes. And so we're always, we're careful and innately careful about germs and cross-contamination and all that stuff now. But you know, keeping those things in mind is that like one down day, because you weren't taking care could cost you money. Anne: Sure. Laya: But it's also important to take it a down day when you need it so that you can go the distance when you need it to. Anne: And you'd be surprised at how understanding your clients can be. Laya: For sure. Anne: If you're human. I mean, we're all human, right? Laya: That's absolutely true. Anne: And so if you need that time, and I know you mentioned before that, you know, if you need that time and you don't -- we try not to work on the weekends and you send that email saying, "hey, thanks so much. I'm out of the booth right now. And I'll get back to you tomorrow morning, you know, I'm spending time on family and I'd be happy to get back to you," I think I love that approach, um, because we all need to reset. We all need to reset that creative compass. Laya: Yeah, absolutely. Anne: To be our best. Laya: I think in a future episode, I'd love to talk to you more about, you know, how do you compartmentalize when you vacation? Do you take a rig with you? What does that look like? When you set those boundaries? Because that's part of the wellness and the mentality too. So -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- maybe more on that later. Anne: Absolutely. Well, excellent conversation, Laya, as always. Laya: Thanks again, Anne. Thank you. Anne: Yeah. This has been great. BOSSes, take care of yourself. Laya: Yes. Anne: You know, mental, physical wellness is, is important for your performance, for your business. We all want you guys around for a very long time, so. Laya: Health is wealth. Absolutely. Anne: That's it, absolutely. So big shout-out to ipDTL that allows me to connect, uh, with BOSSes like Laya, and you too can do the same. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and be well, and we'll see you next week. Laya: See ya. Thanks, everybody. Anne: Bye! Laya: Bye! >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to Coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Worried about Ai? Your emotions are your job security, and working with technology will be key to future success in voice over. In this bonus Voice & Ai episode, Anne chats with Ryan Hicks and Adam Fritz of Pozotron - an audiobook proofing service. Listen as they dive deep into the future of audiobook production, and discuss how the connections between human emotion & AI is a voice actor’s greatest ally… More at https://voboss.com/voice-and-ai-pozotron-with-ryan-hicks-and-adam-fritz   

What are you grateful for today? In Part Two of our Modern Mindset series premiere, Anne & Laya connect the conversation between industry and self. They cover forming accountability groups during the pandemic, abundance vs. scarcity mindsets, and the double-edged sword that is social media. More at https://voboss.com/introducing-modern-mindset-part-2-with-laya-hoffman Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am thrilled to have back with me guest co-host Laya Hoffman. Laya is an Atlanta-based voice actor and podcaster. She's got over 20 years on the mic. She specializes in commercial, corporate, promos, and has worked for brands such as BMW, Google, Amazon, all the things. She's a former marketing exec, nightclub DJ, and creative agency lead. So she brings us so much value to this podcast. And I am so excited to bring her back to talk to us on our Modern Mindset Series. Laya, so glad to have you back. Laya: Oh, thank you so much, Anne. I'm loving our conversation. It's been an honor to listen to your show over the last few years and on to be a guest, how cool, super grateful for the opportunity to share. Anne: Oh, absolutely. Wow -- Laya: Thank you. Anne: -- we had a great episode where we started to talk about what is a modern mindset and how to get yourself into a modern mindset. And we really kind of delved deep, and I think we can go even further on that. So let's review a little bit for our listeners about what a modern mindset entails and maybe dig deep into the modern mindset for being ready to be the best entrepreneur you can for your voiceover business. Laya: Absolutely. And it's so important to continue to share this information, because as so many talented voice actors who have shared their trials and tribulations with me over the years, I've kind of run that through a modern lens, as I've grown my business full-time in the last three years and taken that experience and shifted it in how we can meet our buyers, our agents, our managers, our clients, where they are because they're hiring differently. Anne: Oh yes. Laya: They are listening for different things, and to be our best selves when we approach the mic every day, it takes starting at the ground up to make sure that you are confident, that you are committed and clear, and you are grounded in your intention, and how you present your work every day. And, um, and that will continue to help you stabilize your industry, but also, you know, keep the balance, because there is a lot of anxiety out there in the world as it is, much less when you talk to yourself in a box all day for a living. So, you know, there's a lot of steps to that. And we did touch on that a little bit on our last episode of health and wellness, and then also having and approaching your business with the right intention. But I'm looking forward to talking more about that today. Anne: Well, you know, I think it's very important before you begin, or while you're in the middle of creating your business, that you are open to educating, educating yourself. Laya: Oh yeah, oh yeah. Anne: I think that that is so important. And -- and if you're used to doing things a certain way, I think it's really important that, number one, if you're going to be successful in an industry such as voiceover and any industry, that you spend a certain amount of time each day, educating yourself on that industry. What does it take for you to be successful in that industry? And also not just in the industry, but to research and educate yourself on your potential clients. Laya: Absolutely. Anne: I think that that is absolutely very important. And if you don't have that going into it, it's going to be hard for you to really understand or even perform, to be successful in getting gigs. And then once you have the gig, in order to be able to serve your client in the way that they would want to have their brand elevated by your voice. Laya: Absolutely. I think that you look at, you can look at any other industry in the world, and you know that you've got a certain amount of education, whether it's vocational -- Anne: Oh yeah! Laya: -- or a long lead of college tuition ahead of you, but in voiceover, for some reason, a lot of people approach it like it's just a quick fix -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- or it's a quick money maker -- Anne: It's simple. Laya: When in -- Anne: I'm home. I can make money. Laya: -- when the reality is -- I can talk, right? Everybody talks -- Anne: I can talk. Laya: Right? When the reality is, if you don't come to the table with a true understanding of the investment and what you're going to fill and educate yourself with, fill your cup with every day, and come from a place very humbly looking at that, and figuring out also who are the best types of people that you need to learn from, you know. What is, is there a personality fit there, um, with your coach? Are you going to make a commitment to that coach and stay the course with that coach in that vein, in that track, in that genre of voice work until you master it, or until you at least feel confident where you're booking in that range? Or are you going to scatter yourself and then figure out what, you know, do widespread research and touch a little bit of everything until you figure out where you want to hone in on? I think you have to have real conversations with yourself and come from a place of humility to know that you, even at your highest peak in this career, never stop learning -- Anne: Oh my goodness, yes. Laya: -- and never stop filling that cup and sharing also, but, you know, listen more than you talk in this business. And I think you'll go far. Anne: Isn't that like an oxymoron? Laya: Right. Anne: Listen more than you talk. Laya: Right. Anne: But I love that you said, have it come from a humble place, from a place of humility, because I think that that is what indeed makes us open, open to new things, open to new education. And even for the people, not if you're just entering the business, but even for the people that are in the business, I think it might almost be more important for them to be open -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- to evolve and to educate. And, you know, I know firsthand in my Voice and AI series that there's a lot of people -- there's a lot of fear. And I think what stops people from advancing, selling in their performance, or growing their business is fear -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- and fear of, of what's coming or what's up ahead. And, and I think that we can combat that fear with education, education about what technologies are coming up, you know, educate yourself about AI. If you're afraid that AI is gonna take away your business, you know, go ahead and educate yourself. That's one of the main missions, you know -- like my love is teaching. And so I really went all out on my AI and Voice series so that people could get an education on, you know, what is AI in voice all about? What are synthetic voices all about? How can we as voice talent learn more about that, that part of the industry so that we can serve better or not, you know, and make an informed decision. And I think that there's a lot of talent out there that have been in the industry for a long time, and we touched on this in our last episode about how you need to be willing to open yourself to changes that are happening in the market. And there's a lot of people that, they may or may not want to see what's happening. They want to do it, you know, the way it used to be. Laya: Sure. Anne: Well, it used to be, you know, back in the day, I'll even say when I was like, right at the very beginning of like the pay-to-plays. And, uh, you know, at that time they were very effective. Now things have evolved, things have changed. And so -- Laya: Yeah, you have to play a game. Anne: -- we got, yeah, we've got to evolve along with it. So being open, being humble, being willing to learn, really, I think I want to say, could be almost one of the most important factors in having a modern mindset to be successful. Laya: Absolutely. And you touched on this a little bit too, but as a fellow colleague of mine and a dear friend, Caroline Slaughter, has reintroduced time and time again to our conversations, there's a scarcity mindset out there when -- as it applies to AI and, you know, new modern technologies, and "they're going to take our jobs from us, and the way we used to do it in our old days, you know?" Like, no, you're coming from a scarcity mindset. You know, if once you scrub down that scarcity mindset and move from a place of that to an abundant mindset -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- and know that there is plenty out there, and the more that you fill your cup, the more, you know, the more you grow, the more you share, the more you care, the more you'll hear that quality and that authenticity in your voice, the more you'll connect with your clients, your managers, your agents, the more you'll connect with the audience that's at the end listening to you deliver the message. And you're never going to get there with a scarcity mindset. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: You're never going to get there with that "well, the way we used to do it, and this is, I'm not, I'm stuck in my ways." No, take what you're learning, know how valuable that is, and how you're paying it forward to the future generations. But then listen in return, because while I'm 42 years old and may have been being paid on the mic for 20 years, I've only been full-time and taken this industry seriously in the last three. And it's bringing that other experience into -- Anne: Oh my gosh, all the time. Laya: -- like with your medical background, you can bring that experience into your medical narration. With my marketing background, with my branding consulting creative background, I bring that in, and it's learning and evolving and staying humble and with an open, kind of an abundant mindset, that there is plenty and it is so cool. And also coming from a deep, deep place of gratitude -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- because it is a gift to be able to talk for a living -- Anne: Sure is. Laya: -- and get paid to share your voice and be a storyteller. Anne: It sure is. Laya: It is one of the greatest gifts. And if that's not where you're coming from as a place of humility and gratitude, and open-mindedness, then this might not be a successful path for you or as successful as it could be. So that's my, you know, it's up there. Anne: I love the -- I think gratitude, coming from a place of gratitude, number one, is always important. I think those two things, come from a place of gratitude and manifest abundance. Always, always manifest. Laya: I could spend an entire episode -- I could probably talk about that for hours. Anne: Manifest abundance. Laya: In fact, I wholly -- and a lot of people ask me what is manifestation. It's really checking in with your gut -- Anne: Oh, I'm all about that. Laya: -- and what you want and thinking big. And using -- in fact, I just did a little ritual with my own family. It's a road opening ritual where we talk about all our roads are open, all our blocks, unblocked, and every night, while we're sitting around the dinner table, my eight-year-old, my husband and I, we say, what are you grateful for today? Anne: Nice. Laya: And we give our gratefuls. We don't necessarily pray. We're not a very religious, but a very spiritual family. And we talk about our gratitudes every day. When I wake up in the morning, I start my day in my mind with, what am I grateful for today? And some "I am" statements, the feeling of like, what are you today? And what can you embrace this day with, with power, with gratitude, with appreciation? And, you know, those are very powerful and often taken for granted. So it can really change your mind -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- and change your mood and change your mentality as you approach the mic every day. Anne: And I think that there's something to be said for taking the moment and, in more than a moment, even for yourself, so that you can bring your best self to the booth. And you're having that -- Laya: 100%. Anne: -- having that time where you are thinking, what am I grateful for? And I know I come from a place of gratitude, and sometimes you're forced into a place of even deeper gratitude. Laya: You have to fake it 'til you make it sometimes. And that's okay. Anne: With, let's say, health issues, right? Of course, we're in the middle of a pandemic, but you know, I've had health issues where -- it's funny because what I used to think was so dramatic and horrible maybe in my booth, you know, prior to a cancer diagnosis, right? After I come through that, then it becomes like, wow, I am grateful that I can be in this booth. I'm grateful that I can work from home. I am grateful that I'm still here to be able to use my voice -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- to be able to have an impact on somebody, and that -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- and I think ultimately becomes like a -- there's a very central core place of gratitude that comes from, for me, it's education. It's that teacher in me. I mean, I'm a voice actor. And a lot of that voicing that I do impacts people. It inspires people. It, it -- hopefully it inspires people, you know, and it is something that I want to leave, that is my legacy. That is where I am going to leave an impact. This show is also part of that. Laya: Oh, it's such a gift, such a gift to so many. So yes, you're on that track, and that's your modern mindset. Anne: There you go. Laya: It's beautiful. Anne: There you go. And I think the gratitude and manifesting abundance really will help. Then you can get in the booth and perform. Like too many people I think just run into the booth and just audition, audition, audition. And there's no like set ritual maybe that gets them into a good mindset. I know that if, at the end of the day, if I have an audition that comes in, and I've been stressed out, oh my goodness, I have to really think about it. Laya: You can hear it. Anne: It so affects our voice. Oh my goodness. Laya: Yes. Anne: Every tiny little thing. Laya: Think about it, think about it. You're delivering vibration. Anne: Yup, yup. Laya: You're an amplified source right into somebody's eardrum. Anne: Exactly. Laya: If you aren't coming from an emotional point, as my coach Nancy Wolfson would say, from the right emotional point -- Anne: Oh my goodness, yes. Laya: -- it starts with you! Then your listener is going to hear it or feel it. They may not be able to associate it, but they are absolutely going to be able to transmit that. Anne: Oh my goodness. Yes, absolutely. Laya: For me -- and I love that you talked about like, how do you approach the booth every day? I wanted to share just from my perspective what has changed for me. I was running and gunning. You know, I'm a full-time mom. Anne: Me too, yup. Laya: I dealt with a child homeschooling in a pandemic. It was gangbusters. It still is. There is a new normal level of anxiety that used to be my peak level. And so I've had to manage that. And I realized that when my bookings were dipping, it was because I wasn't showing up properly. And there was some frazzled months in there where -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- Corona coaster -- and knock on wood, we still have been lucky enough not to have, um, contracted COVID here -- but that, the anxiety of the world and the weight of the world -- Anne: Oh my goodness, yes. Laya: -- those months in the booth and, and working and trying to maintain was heavy. And I knew that it was resonating -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and it was why I wasn't booking. So I took a step back. And I started to focus my energy on me waking up earlier. Every morning, I do a Kundalini yoga practice with a Zoom coach, and it's a large group. Anybody can join. Well, maybe I'll send it out at some point, but it's amazing that. Anne: Yes. We'll put it our in our reference link. Laya: I love that. Anne: For the show. Laya: It's, it's breath work -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- and body work -- Anne: Yes, yes, yes. Laya: -- not only helps you ground down, but also gives your lungs, your vocal cords, your breath, more space in your body to really flow. And then I find that the tone, the timbre of my voice after a 40-minute session where my body is stretching, and I'm breathing, and I mentally and emotionally getting grounded, is so much richer. Anne: Oh yeah, absolutely. Laya: It's so much more connected. Then I get my kid to school, and you go for a walk, and I get some nature. I say, you know, breathe that fresh air in. I can feel it viscerally. And then I come to the booth with a nice, you know -- Anne: Right. Laya: -- and not everybody has that availability where you have that flexibility or that time or those resources, but whatever that is to you is so important to come to your practice every day. Anne: Well, having worked with students for a number of years there is -- and especially in narration work, a lot of narration work -- I think that narration, number one, you have to keep the focus and the engagement for even longer than let's say 30 or 60 seconds. Laya: Sure. Anne: And it's interesting because some people think, "well, I'm just narrating. I'm going to just" -- everything together put together is a creation, right? You've got video. Maybe you're narrating for that video, but depending on what you're doing, let's say if you're teaching, if you're doing e-learning, or if it's a corporate narration, which is not so much a documentary style, but it's a different style where you are connecting with a potential client and doing a soft sell, every single piece of work or that you do, or every word on that page has meaning. And if you are not completely focused in understanding that meaning and taking that, and being able to tell a story, taking that and be able to emotionally connect with your listener, that takes a ton of focus. And it is so -- Laya: And stamina. Anne: Oh my goodness, yes. And it is so evident when you are stressed. It is so evident when you are not connected to the copy. And there's so much to say about being connected to the copy, to be able to tell that story, and becoming almost lost in telling the story, where it then no longer is about what your voice sounds like. And if you're listening to what your voice sounds like, that is taking up all of your brain power to not be able to tell a story. And that's what our job is. Our job is to tell that story in a meaningful and an engaged way. And if we are not mentally there, if we're stressed, if we're any type of heightened, I would say emotion, we are not able to properly do our jobs. Laya: Yeah. And I think, you know, to speak on that, some of the ways, and I'd love to hear your feedback on what you do as well, but I think to stay clear, confident, and committed and maintain your sanity and your peace of mind in this industry -- because as we mentioned in our last episode, you know, if you're an introvert, and maybe this is your calm, and this is the perfect job for you. I'm an extrovert. So talking to myself by myself all day, uh, I need some reassurance along the way. So I think one of the important things to create for yourself is a mastermind group or a group of people, or even just an individual within the industry that's -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- maybe at the same point you are. Um, my friend Kelly Buttrick, uh, often talks about the compass and finding your north star, finding someone that you can reach up to that is maybe in the next level that you would like to be as a -- Anne: So important. Laya: -- little bit of a mentor. Right? But then also find someone to yourself that you can also share some information to, so you're not only receiving, but you're giving, right? Anne: Absolutely. Laya: Like you do every day, you give on this podcast, you give as a coach. But even as the single solo preneur, I think it's so important, which she said is so important, it's always stuck with me this compass mentality, because then you've got somebody on your east and your west that are right on your level that you can commiserate with, check-in with say, you know, I'm really not feeling this. I'm self-doubt whatever, how are you doing? They can pump you up. And I have found this industry to be so giving in that way that I hope that we can inspire everyone to find their compass, their mastermind, their group. I have a group of talent that we came together because of Kelly over the pandemic called the Gnomies. And it's just a funny name because there was a, a gnome troll in a picture. Anyway, there's nine of us that have come together on Zoom once a week that just talk. And we don't even necessarily talk about the industry. It's more of a gut check to see how's everybody's doing -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- in their isolated room. You know? Anne: It's like a water cooler, where y'all get together and talk. Laya: It's so important that we create those for ourselves. That's part of the modern mindset. It's that you don't have to do this alone. You know, mental health, mental, emotional health is so important. It is everything. And I think it's a little underrated how that's discussed in the voiceover-- Anne: Well -- Laya: -- community -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- health and maintaining that health. Anne: And let's just focus on the word, that this is something that we do in our booth alone. And that right there, just think of the word that we do this alone, we're isolated. And right there is where we need to just stop and understand and realize that it's okay to reach out to others in the industry. We need to have that water cooler. We need to have that experience where, even if we're not talking about the industry, we're just talking, we're communicating, we're engaging with one another to have that human experience, which helps us to do our jobs better, because I think completely isolating yourself in the booth, whether you're an introvert or an extrovert, right, I think we all still need that connection -- Laya: Oh, sure. Anne: -- to be able to, to function really, we need that feedback. And I love the accountability group. I love just having a group that you can get together with, you know, on a weekly basis and -- or whatever timeframe you guys have. I mean, I've been a part of accountability groups for years, and it's a wonderful, wonderful way to get all those questions that you have and self doubt that you have in your brain that, "oh my God, I'm not doing this right, or how do I even do this? Am I," there's always the questions that I get. And even from students, like, you know, if you're a coach, a lot of times, part of that is a mental lesson too. If, you know, students are not feeling confident or they're like, do I have what it takes? I can't tell you how many times people have asked that of me. Laya: Sure. Anne: Do I have what it takes? And that is such an involved question. Um, you know, it's just, there's no one answer. Do you have what it takes? It starts from inside you. Laya: Yeah. Anne: That's a big part of that and a modern mindset. Laya: I totally agree with you. And a lot of people have asked me, well, I'm just starting out. I don't know anybody in the street. And I want to give you two tips on how to create an accountability group or a buddy in the industry. And these are some of the things that have worked for me because we are so isolated, especially during a pandemic. I have found that, you know, luckily I was fortunate enough to align myself with some talent before we all got shut down, and I just kindly and conscientiously cheered them on on social media. I would follow up with them. I would not be asking or needing anything from them. I would just be their cheerleader, just like you would want to nurture and finesse a new boyfriend or love interest or girlfriend or a client. You know, you're just cheering them on on social media. The other thing I have found is that if you are in some workout groups, whether they're local in your area, or even everyone's coming in from all over, because everything is virtual. You know, use that Zoom group to your advantage, cheer the person on that you are finding the most similarity with and the most opposite talent from, you know, somebody that's your polar opposite, so you don't have that competition feeling or what have you. And then message them privately in the Zoom where you can, you know, chat with other people, and let them know what a great job they're doing. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: It's going to make somebody else -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- feel amazing in those very nerve-wracking Zoom sessions when everyone's staring at you doing your reading. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: And also create some camaraderie. And then, you know, maybe before the session closes, say, hey, would you mind if we connect on social? I love what you're doing. I want to continue to stay in touch. Some of my best industry relationships are people I have never met in person. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: It's because we cheer each other on on social media. I like what they're doing because social media, I mean, hello, that's a whole other conversation we're going to get into. Anne: Well, I want to talk a little bit about that. While I think the good in the social media and the, and the support, I also think we need to be very careful about social media too -- Laya: Definitely. Anne: -- because that could also be part of the mindset that may or may not contribute to a healthy -- Laya: May not be positive. Anne: Exactly. Laya: For sure, Anne, for sure. Anne: Yup. Laya: There's so much comparison out there. It is very easy to take a break from your day, scroll your -- Anne: Imposter syndrome. Laya: -- and decide -- yes -- that you are either not cut out for this, or why are all these other people getting all these other gigs -- because you know, love it or hate it. You got to put yourself out there and show your accomplishments. I feel like it can be both tacky and also self-serving. Anne: I agree with that. Laya: So it's another conversation of how it's presented. Anne: That's another episode. That's another episode. Laya: Definitely. I smell another episode. Anne: Yup. Laya: But I think it's important to then -- so my pivot to that is instead of, again, scarcity mindset, approaching your social platforms and your digital device with this, "why aren't I getting it mindset?" Be like, my gosh, she sounded great there. I loved what she did with that copy. Perfect voice for that. Anne: Right. Laya: And let them know, let them know, because that comes from a place of gratitude. If you are a true champion of women and of voices and voice work and storytelling and this industry, raise people up, don't put them down. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: Don't -- if you've got nothing good to say, keep on scrolling, but don't let that sit and fester in your, in your insides. You got to let somebody know that, you know, you don't know. They're hiding behind their post too. You know, they are, they're talking themselves out -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: It's, it's crazy, right? You're only putting your best self forward, but if you can cheer someone on -- Anne: Or, or not! Laya: Right, right. Anne: Right? Sometime you're not putting your best -- sometimes people are responding, and they're not putting their best selves forward. Laya: I have seen this too. Anne: Yes. Laya: There's another topic, but I think those were some of the ways that I was able to create community when there was no opportunity to do so. And, and those little things we can all do, and you see it, and then it becomes a ripple effect. And you notice the people that are then coming back to you, and you're getting a little bit of a boost when you needed it most and you didn't even know it. So there you go. Anne: You know, for all the people that complained about Zoom during the pandemic, and you know, there were lots of struggles with it, for schools and that sort of thing, I will tell you, Zoom is the one thing that saved me in that pandemic -- Laya: Yeah, absolutely. Anne: -- so that I can connect with my family -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- which is like 3000 miles away. Laya: Sure. Anne: -- Zoom is what helped me. Well, at least I was able to connect. And actually, if you've gone to the conferences that have been virtual, I have to say, I'm pleasantly surprised at the value of the networking that you can get from a virtual -- I'm not saying it's better than being in person, but I am saying that in the event that you cannot be there in person, it does bring you -- Laya: Yeah, yeah. Anne: -- for me, it brings me a closeness that is better than not necessarily having any communication whatsoever. Laya: Yeah, absolutely. Anne: So I think that it's, I think that it's so important what you're saying about lifting others up. And if you have nothing good to say, walk away, I mean, really that is -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- you know? Laya: Absolutely. And it doesn't mean you need to reply to every inquiry -- Anne: Oh my goodness, yes. Laya: -- on every Facebook page, because let me tell you, I've muted most of those. I just don't feel like it's beneficial or really worth my time or value to contribute when there's so many opinions. I thought -- I saw a great meme that, uh, Karin Gilfry put up about, uh, the typical voiceover social media response and the, all the characters involved. It's so true. We'll have to look it up and re, repost it at some point. But it's interesting. I find that through those conferences, through Zoom workouts, through even back channel DMs, social media messages to people, that's where some of the most rich relationship building I've been able to foster, and it really can feel you for the good, if you shift your perspective and come from a place of gratitude and abundance, instead of scarcity, and comparison. Anne: You know I'm going to say one thing, actually, that you pointed out, you know, on the back channels, you know, in the messenger and the texting. I think there's a lot to be said for maybe a truer engagement happening on those channels, where I think it's good that we have that, because a lot of times you can look at posts, and then you form your own opinion and you may -- or if you decide not to, to read it, but yet it stays with you in either a good or a bad way. You have those interactive channels that you can then communicate. And I think those are kind of like little lifelines, to be honest. Laya: I agree. Anne: In terms of, if you see a post that is upsetting to you, you can turn to that person on your compass. I love the compass idea. And it can be something that can maybe, you know, save your mental state from going awry, and it can be -- Laya: Yeah, a little gut check. Anne: -- yeah, it can be a great, a great way. So always have, I think, more so than the channels technically, make sure you have those people there that you can lean on to help you with your mental health. And I think that, you know, talking today about the modern mindset, coming from a place of gratitude to begin with, manifesting abundance, and having those people in your channel, having the support group, is so, so important to really starting, continuing and maintaining a modern mindset. Yeah. Laya: I love it. Anne: So great episode, Laya. Again, I'm so thrilled that we get to talk again. Laya: Thank you. Same here, Anne. Anne: I love really delving deep into this topic, and we've got a lot of great stuff coming up, BOSSes. So make sure that you keep tuning in every week with Laya and myself. Laya: Thank you. Anne: Yeah, I'm going to give a great, big shout-out to the technology that that allows us to bring this to you. And that is ipDTL. You too can connect like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week, and let's manifest abundance and show gratitude and work on our modern mindsets this week. So you guys, have a wonderful week. We'll see you next week. Take care. Bye! Laya: Take care. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to Coast connectivity via ipDTL.

VO is a marathon, not a sprint. Anne and series co-host Laya Hoffman kick off the Modern Mindset series with an honest look at the voice business from a fresh perspective. They discuss learning from industry trailblazers, mental and physical health in the booth, and the financial reality of VO. More at https://voboss.com/introducing-modern-mindset-part-1-with-laya-hoffman Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am thrilled to welcome special guest cohost Laya Hoffman to the show. Laya is an Atlanta-based voice, actor and podcaster with over 20 years on the mic. She specializes in commercial, corporate, promos and others short form audio projects for amazing brands like BMW, Google, Amazon, AAA, Kind snacks, and much, much more. She's a former marketing exec -- woo-hoo, we love marketing -- nightclub DJ and creative agency lead. She brings a modern minded approach to business. So Laya, thank you so much for joining me on this special guest series on modern mindset. Laya: Thank you, Anne. It is such a pleasure to be here. I am a huge fan, always have been since we met years ago at, uh, VO Atlanta, and I've loved your show and all the quality content and the information you've provided to the industry. So it's an honor to be here. It's really nice to be able to continue our conversations on the mic. Anne: Well, thank you. And I'm excited because this is going to be a really cool series. We're not just here for one shot. So BOSS listeners, you're in for a treat while we explore all things modern mindset in our voiceover business and our entrepreneurship. So with that being said, Laya, you've been in the industry a long time. So I think having a modern mindset, especially when you have so much experience in the industry, it takes some effort, and it takes like a really good, focused mindset in order to remain successful in the industry. So tell us a little bit about your experience and how it's led you into this modern mindset for your voiceover business. Laya: Yeah, sure things. You know, I always say I've been on the mic for 20 years because I went to school for radio broadcasting at Columbia in Chicago. And I was on the air for many years. And then because of that, you know, 20 years ago, voiceover looked a lot different. It was us radio jocks, just doing the ads that were given to us by, you know, clients in the sales team for the radio. I didn't even realize that's what I was doing was voice work, right, voiceover, and I loved it because I loved storytelling. I love delivering somebody else's message and also being able to play with different tones and textures and deliveries and things like that. It also came at a time when I was on the radio, I came out of a very dramatic situation that took my voice away from me. So it was a self-healing revelation when I could use my voice in a quiet room, and I could find the strength again, and that to me was equal parts, healing and empowering, and part of my growth journey and my own personal work in therapy coming out of that situation. So to me, voice work always meant something different maybe because it was taken from me. So I never took it for granted until it was taken away from me, and then to come back and realize that power in our voice and that people were listening meant something kind of different. And so I think maybe I had a unique introduction to voiceover and then also not realizing that there was a job in that. And of course, if you're not on top of your game in radio, there's not a whole lot of stability in that. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: At least there wasn't in my media market station. Anne: Sure. Laya: And so after radio, I continued to voice projects for clients just by word of mouth for about the next 17 years off and on throughout my career, throughout all my travel. A few years back, of course, I owned a creative agency with a partner of mine that had to do very forward-thinking ideas for big brands in order to get the engagement, and get people listening, and get people to interact with their brand on many different levels. So it was experimental marketing at its best. And so with that forward-thinking approach to brand work, I had to get very creative and pay attention to what brands needed and what their consumers needed to get the traction that those brands needed to see their ROI. And so that was a unique perspective. Fast forward a few years, I became the vice president of global marketing for a haircare company and for many years traveled the world is seeing what consumers and brands alike needed to really buy into loyalty and brand identity. And that gave me another unique perspective. When it came to social media, I was managing teams that would manage brand social media, the voice of brands across multiple platforms, and that had a unique voice. And all throughout this time, I continued to do voice work and projects for people that I knew. And I still didn't realize that there was a career in voiceover, 'cause I was just running and gunning, but I was doing it and making money this entire time, very low level. It wasn't until actually the conference that I met you at VO Atlanta a few years ago that I realized there was really something here, and I was burnt out on corporate. Anne: Really? Wow. Laya: Yeah. I didn't really realize or pay attention to the industry that is voiceover work ,and the craft, and just the amount of complexity and nuances that go into being a voice actor. Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: And I have an eight year old daughter now, but at the time she was four, and I was just gone a whole lot. And it became very apparent to me that I needed to be present for her, and raising a young woman, a young girl in this day and age meant that I needed to show up and be present and be my best self, but also be a positive role model for her growth. And knowing the pain of my past, I wanted to make sure that from a very early age, she knew that she could use her voice, stand up, be heard and use her voice for good. And so -- Anne: I love that. Laya: Yeah, thank you. Anne: Yeah. And I love that you have a podcast with her. Laya: I do. Anne: That's so -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: Yeah. That's amazing. I mean, that just is one thing that really struck me about you. And I thought what a wonderful way to really involve her in such a wonderful way, to have her believe in herself and have a voice and have that encouragement. That's amazing. Laya: Yeah, it's called, She Sounds Like Me. We're in our, we're going on our third season here in the fall, but she was a part of the creation when we started. She was six and she, believe it or not, had a hand in everything from picking the music bed to helping -- Anne: Wow. Laya: -- craft the colors and the logo design. I had her with us the entire process, which was entirely grassroots, bootstrapping your own podcast, as you all know. It's quite a -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- quite a feat, maybe a no -- an entirely different conversation. Anne: We should talk about that. Laya: Yes, for sure. Anne: In another episode -- Laya: For sure. Anne: -- we will absolutely discuss podcasting, for sure. Laya: So yeah, it was it's been a -- it's been an honor to have her along for the ride and help grow and develop our conversations that range from everything from bullying to systemic racism. So the podcast is its own thing, but going back to, you know, this modern mindset approach, it was because I stepped in and committed fully to voice acting, when I realized I was missing a huge part of my life with her. I got burnt out on corporate and it had to come to an end. I ripped the bandaid off, and I said, I am all in on becoming a voice actor. But from the beginning I took a very brick and mortar approach to that. And what I mean by that -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- is I knew that the investment was going to be significant, and that our family may take a hit financially. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: My husband had to be on board. My daughter needed to be on board, and I needed to fully be present and ready to learn, absorb, and invest, and be patient -- Anne: Oh goodness, yes. Laya: -- every bit of the way. Anne: Yeah. Laya: Because you hear so many stories of people that don't realize that from the beginning. And it really is a -- is an eyeopening thing to understand just how much investment financially, energetically and -- Anne: Oh my goodness, yes. Laya: -- your entire household has to be to take this seriously and really get it going from the beginning. Anne: And I think that that is really important. I mean, myself, I remember when I jumped from corporate into full-time entrepreneur, a voice actor and it just, it's a scary thing. And I think there are lots of lessons learned along the way. But yeah, you absolutely have to be ready to put in the work, because it's not something -- Laya: No. Anne: -- that happens overnight, that is for darn sure. You know, that overnight success that takes you 10 years. And I think that having a modern mindset absolutely helps you because it is a business. It's not just about your voiceover in the studio. I mean, building the business really encompasses so much more than just the performance acting part of it. And I know that when I first started, myself, in this industry, I mean, I had to have the absolute support of my husband and just say, I knew we were going to take a hit income-wise as a family and we had to be prepared for that. Laya: Absolutely, and so did we. And so, you know, I've heard stories from some of the most iconic voice talent out there that say, you know, you can expect to start making money after like the second or third year, and money, I mean like 40, $50,000 a year. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And so just, you know, hold onto your hat. It's going to be a long process. Anne: And it might take longer. Laya: And it might take even longer than that. Anne: Than that even. Laya: But I have to be in with all due respect, and for those icons that have taught me so much like yourself, you know, I think it's that modern mindset and that laser focused approach that I brought to my business and the experience of coming in fresh to an industry that has been so well-established, and so many incredibly talented people have led the way, and provided all this rich education, and kind of let me see behind the glass to share their perspectives and the gifts that they gave me. I think being able to have a laser-focused approach in that modern mindset is what got me on a fast track to that high success trajectory very early on. So -- Anne: I want to say 20 years, right? I mean, we've evolved so much as an industry. Laya: Of course. Anne: And everything has changed in terms of -- like, when you said, I didn't even know voiceover was a thing, I didn't either. And I started doing telephony at my company, you know. Everybody needs somebody to do the voicemail. Laya: Sure, always did that too. Anne: So that was how I, yeah, that's how I got involved in it. I didn't even know it was a thing. And back then, I mean, the Internet was just kind of becoming a thing, and there wasn't as much information out there when beginning in the voiceover industry. So there wasn't a lot of people. It was very isolating in the beginning, and you couldn't really like, well, who do I ask? How do I give somebody a quote? I don't even know how to ask somebody to do that because there really was no method. There was no Internet communication. There were no Facebook groups. There were -- you know, now it's crazy where there's all this electronic media where we can look for help or search for help on how to do something. But back then it was, it was crazy. And having a modern mindset or at least having some experience, I think out in the world beyond voiceover probably helped you a lot in terms of buckling down and really giving it a go and making this a business. Laya: Absolutely, Anne. And you touched on so many things I want to come back to. What I noticed is, and I do say, of course, I have been working and getting paid on the microphone for 20 years, but I've only been full-time for the last three. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And I really didn't consider this a career probably until the last year and a half, when I was able to sustain and make this -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- as a contributing member of my family's financial pie. So it is, it is um -- while I say that, I also want to give credit to all of those people, um, that have led the way and paved the way for helping us people that have come in newly with fresh eyes in the last couple of years. There's, there's so much to be gleaned from your experience and your history and fellow voice actors who have paved the way and led to so many coachings, to so many seminars, now that you can get information in so many different ways. And it's such a beautiful thing. Anne: Right? Laya: It can be an overwhelming thing, but -- Anne: Yes. I think that's the other part of it -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- the other part of it, absolutely. So what information do you believe, do you trust or what information is correct? Laya: And who's valid and who's really in it for the right reasons? Anne: Yup. Laya: And who's not really trying to sell you? Anne: Exactly. Laya: And so there were some interesting hurdles I came across early on in the new version of my voice over career. So, and I talk about kind of where I'm at now. It's really what I've learned in the last two or three years, and taking the experience that I had in my previous roles and applying it through this fresh lens -- because what I think is interesting, so many of my colleagues that have long established careers in voiceover, you know, had to learn those things from the ground up and had to build those processes from the ground up where some of us newer talent comes in able to take these resources and kind of fast track. The other difference though, I notice, is that so many of my fellow colleagues that are more established have a harder time converting their pre-established mindset and then shifting it -- Anne: Absolutely, yup. Laya: -- into this modern mindset. And that's exactly what we're here to talk about over -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- the next couple of episodes. Anne: You've hit the nail on the head right there. And, you know, there's something to be said for being in an industry for a certain amount of years, but yet I think the hardest thing for people is to evolve along with industry. And it's not just the voiceover industry -- Laya: Every industry. Anne: -- it's just the world today. You know, I think technology has had such a huge impact on all aspects of the world that, you know, I think in order to evolve along with it, it's an important part of your, of your business. Laya: Absolutely. Anne: And modern mindset in terms of being able to evolve, what are the new trends, what's happening now? We're now starting to see, and especially anybody that's been in a business for so long, you start to see where the younger generation is now the people who are hiring you, the people who are directing you -- Laya: Absolutely. Anne: -- and it's important for you to be able to, how shall I say, step out of a bubble, step out of that bubble that you've been in, maybe, for, you know, so many years to be able to evolve and understand where the market is going, and how you can continue to serve the market in a way that allows you to maintain and still remain successful in your career. Laya: And be an innovative and meet those people where they are -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- because that's really the difference. That's why we see the shift in the pay-to-plays. It's because those new CDs and the new copywriters, those people either haven't been trained or aren't willing to adapt the old school ways of doing things. They want to click a button. Anne: Sure. Laya: They want to, you know, hit their search bar. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Laya: They don't want to talk to anyone. They want to have options at their fingertips. They also don't understand why this person who talks for a living gets paid more than they do. Anne: Sure, absolutely. Laya: You know? So there's all those things you have to really like put into your brain wave about how to meet these people, not only your clients, but the people that are hiring us in casting and things like that where they are. And then also how to position yourself as a brand, as a thought leader, how do you approach your social, your messaging out there? And even in the way we communicate and just the language that we use in short form -- Anne: Oh my goodness. Laya: -- brevity, right? That they want to hear in your email correspondence or whatever your messaging is. Anne: I have to give you like two words that I heard the other day. And I was like, oh man. And I, I always consider myself, you know, I try to be really on the edge of everything. I try to really keep up with things, and I heard "paid acquisitions." And I was like, what, what is paid acquisitions? And I'm like, it's marketing. It is, you know, Facebook ads, Google ads. And I was like, oh, so that's the term the youngins are using these days. Right? But yeah, trying to just keep up on that because I'm going to be interviewing this really wonderful, wonderful, strong female entrepreneur. And, you know, she's all about training people on paid acquisitions. And so I'm like -- Laya: And you're like, what? Anne: Okay, I had to Google, I had to Google it. Laya: Oh, that's code for marketing. Check. Anne: Yes, exactly. I gotcha. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So. You know. Laya: There's so many layers to it, you know. It's really -- and, and, and I don't have all the answers. I just know that through observing some of the most well-respected voice actors in the industry and creatives and agents and managers, and having such an incredibly giving industry, I've been able to absorb such quality information and then pass it through this modern minded filter, regurgitated, and seen some incredible success that was unexpected. And people often ask me, well, how are you compartmentalizing your time? How do you communicate? What are you doing for wellness? What, what about those pay-to-plays? How come you're successful on there? But you also have management like, oh, how do we approach our taxes, our finances? How are we -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- you know, there's so many layers of it. And so, hence, this is why our conversation has kind of come up, because I think the more we know and the more we can share, the more I can give back to those that have given to me, the more we can work symbiotically or work from a place of gratitude together to grow this industry from a 360 approach. Right? Anne: Sure, sure. Laya: And so that we can, all we can all learn because gosh knows I've, I've learned so much from, from others. If I can even give one nugget of information back, uh, I will feel like I'm maybe contributing to the greater good of this industry. Anne: So I guess I want to ask, what would you consider the first step in getting yourself into a modern mindset for your business? Is there a first step, or is there multiple steps that you need to take to get yourself, keep yourself open to something like this? Laya: Yeah, that's a great, great question. I think I hear, you know, on the forums and things like that, Facebook groups, you hear a lot of people, you know, they want to jump right in with a demo and some coaching. And I think it's even before that, it's checking in with yourself. I always tell people, they're like, oh, so how do I get into voice acting? And, uh, you know, I got, I gotta -- get sign up at this -- no, hold up. What you first need to do is check in with yourself, and check in with your family, and check in with your support system, and your finances and where you are really aligned. Is this -- Anne: Oh my goodness. Yes. Laya: You know, I think that's the base of it because -- Anne: Finances! Laya: Yes, because -- Anne: I have to just, I have to echo that because -- Laya: Oh, for sure! Anne: Yes, you do have to mentally check in, check in with your support system, but finances is so important when you start on this journey. And I just want to back you up on that -- Laya: Absolutely. Anne: -- because you really can't endeavor to embark on a new career without any thought about financial stability, or if you have money to invest in, in establishing a business, so. Laya: Absolutely. If you're going into any profession, right, you've made the commitment to yourself. You want to be a doctor. You're going to make the commitment that you've got to pay for student loans. You're going to need at least eight years of college. It's going to take blood, sweat, and tears to get you there. But in the end, you will be a doctor. The same thing goes for being a voice actor. Now you can also stick your toe in the pond and just see if it's for you by taking an improv class or, you know, taking a local, a group class or something like that. Sure. That'll get you at least enough information to see if you want to make the commitment. But I think at the end of the day, you have to check in with yourself and see, am I all in? And I'm an all-in person. Anne: Yeah. Laya: I knew I was all in. So that brought a different set of questions or -- Anne: That's my personality too. Laya: Right. Right. Or are you half in? Anne: All or nothing. Laya: And you just want to check it out as a side gig, but just know that if you go in as a side gig, you still are not making money -- Anne: Well -- Laya: -- for a long time. Anne: -- what's interesting. Yeah. You know, what's interesting is they did something, right when in high school, you know, you had a career counselor. You had a guidance counselor in terms of career paths. And I really feel that voiceover was never one of those paths than anybody explained -- Laya: No. Anne: -- because it is, you know, and -- Laya: Sounds easy too, right? Anne: Everybody that looks to get into it, like you need to, you need to have that counseling. You need to find out what is this industry all about. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And what does it take to get into this industry and be able to succeed in it? And so I feel like there's a little bit of career counseling that needs to happen. And in that career counseling, there has to be a modern mindset factor. Right? Laya: Absolutely. And you have to kind of scrape away, and I know, there's a lot of incredible coaches out there, but they want to get right to reading copy. And I wish there was more of a push towards -- Anne: Introduction. Laya: Yeah, and saying just -- Anne: Here's, here's the industry. Laya: -- here's the reality because you can't get that from a Facebook post. You can get it from --a lot -- you can get a lot of opinions. Oh my gosh, there are some, right? But the reality is, and I would tell anybody like, this is no joke. This is not a sprint. This is for sure a marathon, no matter if you want to go full-time and you're going all in, or if you, even, if you want to think and consider this as a part-time hustle or a side side gig. I mean, either one of those things take a significant investment time, energy, and effort. And if there's any part of that, that you don't love, then just check yourself, and you know, maybe re-evaluate before you hemorrhage a lot of money because it really can add up fast. Anne: It can. And I, I'll tell you when I have people that I offer a free consult, that people, if they want to find out what it's like to get into the voiceover industry, and the first thing that I always say is like, look, I am not going to sugarcoat this for you. Laya: Right. Good for you. This is hard. Anne: And the thing of it is, it's not just about the voice and being in a booth and creating character voices and having fun. It is truly a business. And so there's a lot to be said for, you're going to have to not only have fun in the booth, but in the beginning, you're going to have to market yourself like crazy. And especially if I hear from people that are like, okay, I'm retiring. I want this to be for my retirement. I make sure, I'm like, look, you have to make sure you have, you have -- the whole finance -- I'm going back to the financial thing. Laya: Yeah. Anne: Right? You've got to have some financial backup because getting into this, there is an investment. It's not just, you know, obviously watching some YouTube videos and reading words. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So I'm always careful when people say they're looking to -- to support a family, especially a family. If there's children, I get really nervous. And I'm like, the first thing I'll tell them is that, look, this is hard. And it's, it's crazy competitive and make sure that you always have either an alternate piece of income that can help you support your family until you get that business underway. It's important. Laya: Absolutely. Absolutely. And so there's that gut check there that I think is important. You're asking earlier about what are the first steps. I think that first step is having a real conversation with yourself of like, are you just checking it out or are you all in? I knew enough to know that I was all in, and I needed to make -- I make a brace of changes when I do. I take big risks. And, uh, sometimes they pan out. Luckily this one did, but you know, my family had to be on board because there was going to be a time commitment -- Anne: Well, exactly. Laya: -- and a financial commitment. Anne: I was just gonna say, when you made that decision to go all in, you had done your prior research. You had educated yourself on the industry, right? And you talked it over with your support system, your family, to make sure that they were onboard with it as well. And I think that that's important. Laya: Absolutely, absolutely. Anne: So important to have that support. Laya: And the second thing I did that I don't think we are aware enough of, but it is so key -- and I totally attribute some of my success to it -- is checking in with your body and making sure that you're in a healthy space, both state of mind and emotionally and physically. Because this is far more demanding, physically, energetically, mentally and emotionally than we talk about honestly. I mean, I am a self-proclaimed extrovert and I am now choosing to talk to myself in a box for a living. It is highly introverted. There is very little pats on the back that you get. Nobody's cheering for you along the way, unless it's your family or your friends or your, you create a, you know, a support system in the voiceover community, which is incredible by the way. Anne: And -- Laya: That is a big part of it. Anne: Well yeah, and also because it is, so it is so much based in auditioning and rejection. Laya: Rejection, rejection -- Anne: Rejection. Laya: -- rejection. Anne: That's a whole mental mindset. In the beginning, I remember in the beginning, oh my goodness, like being in tears. First, I couldn't get the right sound out of my studio. I didn't have the ear, and somebody, I remember long time ago when I was first setting up my studio, I had submitted an audition, and they came back and they said, it sounds like you're talking in a tube. And I was mortified. I was mortified. I was like, oh my goodness. Like, I don't belong here. And there's that whole emotional mindset that was like, oh my God, I, I just, I shouldn't be here. You know, this is maybe not for me. Laya: That's exactly right, Anne. And if you're not strong, and committed, and confident in yourself, or at least confident in knowing that this is going to have some low moments, and you realize openly that it is mmm a lot based on a lot of rejection or at least no reassurance. Right? I will say that, like you are just sending things out to the ether. Maybe you'll get some feedback one day, good or bad. Anne: Yeah. Laya: Um, but most likely bad first, you know, that takes a hit to our ego. And, um, and then it really makes you question things. Anne: Sure. Laya: So I think, I think just along with checking in with your family and about finances and commitment and what level of commitment you're willing to bring to this, uh, to this career or this idea of, uh, you know, a side hustle or this industry, you really have to see, are you healthy body, mind, soul, and spirit to withstain and go the distance because it can crush you if you're not. Anne: Sure. Laya: And that's something I don't think we talk enough about. With mental health being at the forefront of so many things these days, it is a hundred percent. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: And I'm not great at it either, but I take steps every day to make sure that I can arrive to the booth, to the mic, to the studio, to my clients, and myself, and my family with a grounded sense of self by doing meditation, by doing yoga, by doing breath work, stretching, getting my feet in the soil, getting grounded every day before I come to this, because I know at the end of the day -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- it can take the wind out of your sails. Anne: It is so about your mindset and your mentality for your performance as well. So not just for you in entering a business and being an entrepreneur, but also bringing a mindset to your performance that can really, that can really be something for your clients, right? That you can be that voice for them. You can elevate their brand. Laya: Yeah. Anne: Wow. I think that there is so -- we've got, we've got another episode. Laya: We've got a few, I think. Anne: -- on this mindset. Absolutely. So I'll tell you what, BOSSes, make sure to join us on our next episode, where we were going to continue this conversation on getting yourself into a modern mindset with Laya Hoffman. Laya, thank you so much -- Laya: Thank you, Anne. It's such a pleasure. Anne: -- for -- yeah. I'm so excited to have you for multiple episodes. Laya: Thank you. Anne: I just love it. 'Cause I just think this is an amazing conversation, and I think it's going to be super valuable to our listeners. So. Laya: Thank you so much. I'm super grateful for this. It's going to be a lot of fun. I'm looking forward to continuing to dig in. Anne: Yay. I'm going to give a great, big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and talk like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week, and we'll both see you next week. Bye. Laya: Bye-Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to Coast connectivity via ipDTL.

What is a virtual being? Anne welcomes educator and entrepreneur Abran Maldonado to the show. They discuss diversifying the Ai landscape, cutting edge technology in schools, and working alongside Ai like a #VOBOSS. Plus, Virtual Being CLAiRA chimes in on what she thinks about robots taking voice actors’ jobs. More at https://voboss.com/create-labs-ventures-with-abran-maldonado

If you can dream it, it can happen! Jay LeBoeuf from Descript joins Anne to discuss the benefits of having a voice clone and how Descript can improve work-from-home potential for talent. Remove filler words with one click, adjust your audio via transcript, fix errors using an Overdub voice clone, and so much more. Use your voice beyond its in-person potential with tools that bring the power of AI editing directly to talent. More at https://voboss.com/voice-and-ai-descript-jay-leboeuf/

Know the value of your VO worth! Anne welcomes voice talent and rate negotiation expert, Maria Pendolino. They cover red flags in contracts, rate setting in an evolving industry, and how to educate clients on what you really provide as a talent and as a #VOBOSS. In this episode, Maria shares her thoughts on negotiation within the AI landscape, contract red flags, and more… Get more at https://voboss.com/voice-and-ai-negotiation-strategies-for-digital-voice-maria-pendolino/

Ready to evolve with AI? Lots of doom and gloom out there lately about AI stealing voice acting jobs, which means now’s the time to get educated and evolve alongside and with new technology. In this episode, Voice Actor Tim Heller shares his AI experience - choosing an ethical company, the benefits of creating a clone, the role of human voice actors, the importance of emotion... More at: https://voboss.com/voice-and-ai-the-voice-creation-experience

With new AI technology, voice actors might be afraid of deep-fakes, or someone stealing their voice. But did you know that the same technology may be able to track where your voice is used and flag any deep-fakes? This week, we welcome Zohaib Ahmed, CEO of Resemble.ai and Tanja Milojevic, voice talent and Community Manager. In addition to offering a variety of solutions for voice cloning, character voices, and other content building with synthetic voices, Resemble AI runs an open-source project called Resemblyzer which allows detection of deep-fakes or misuse. Listen in as we discuss the ethics, accessibility, and the importance of storytelling in AI voices. More at: https://voboss.com/voice-and-ai-resemble-ai

Adaptability is your superpower. Keeping on top of changing trends, technologies, and reads is what makes a marketable voice actor. Co-Founder and CEO of SOVAS, Rudy Gaskins joins us this week to discuss how being adaptable will keep us working during the rise of AI voices. Join Anne and Rudy four our next installment of the voice and AI series where we discuss how to stay relevant, why now is the time to get in the AI game, and how the future of voiceover, both union and non-union may be impacted by this disruptive technology. More at: https://voboss.com/voice-and-ai-future-of-vo

Our next guest in Voice and AI series - Andrew Curnock fought for the rights of music creatives to be able to license their work in the gaming industry. He wants to bring this same model of licensing to AI Voices through his work at Replica Studios. Replica is a text-to-speech AI voice generation engine that is currently focusing on voices for video games, primarily place-holder voices. Listen to this episode to learn about the future of AI voices in video games, the voice actor’s place in character acting, and how to license your voice for a possible stream of passive income like a #VOBOSS. More at: https://voboss.com/voice-and-ai-replica

Artificial Intelligence is here to stay. This week, Anne welcomes guest co-host Daree Allen — author, accomplished voiceover actor, and certified UX designer — to talk about AI and facing the fear surrounding it in the VO industry. UX design focuses on the interaction between real human users and everyday products and services, ie consumers and AI voices. Can a machine truly replace a human voice? Anne and Daree cover AI ethics and some other hot-button issues. Listen for tips on making yourself irreplaceable and embracing technology to keep growing your business like a BOSS. More at: https://voboss.com/voice-and-ai-ux-development

Did you know there are over 47 million books listed on Amazon, but only 300,000 of them are listed on Audible? More audiobooks means more accessibility for blind and disabled people. Anne and special guest Ali Zia Khan, founder of Scribe Audio, talk about how AI is transforming the audiobook industry in this episode in the AI and Voice series. Scribe Audio is using AI and working voice actors to expand the audiobook market. According to Ali, human voices aren’t going anywhere! Listen to this episode to learn more about how you can use new technology to create passive income. Make AI work for you! More at: https://voboss.com/voice-and-ai-scribe-audio

Synthetic voices are here to stay, but they can’t replace the human connection. For this episode in the AI and Voice series, husband/wife dynamic duo Simone Kliass and Jason Bermingham join Anne to talk about digital voice technologies and the new opportunities for voiceover artists. Anne bonds with these fellow tech lovers as they discuss the perceived “tech threat” of AI, ethics, and why it’s important to “go with the flow.” Do you need a reminder of how good you are? Listen to this episode to be inspired, remember why your talent is special, and get ideas to work with the evolving market and diversify your business like a BOSS. About Simone: Voiceover specialist and XR researcher, Simone Kliass is the creator and curator of Pixel Voice, Brazil's leading voiceover conference. As a founding member and VP of the Brazilian X-reality association XRBR, Simone has given talks on XR as well as on voice branding at SXSW. Simone hosts Brazil's leading virtual reality event, acts as lead ambassador for Women in Voice, and is also the vocal identity of the São Paulo International Airport, LATAM Airlines, and SKY Pay TV. About Jason: Jason Bermingham is an American voice artist and producer who specializes in English-language narration for the Latin American market. Based in São Paulo, he has consulted on Emmy-winning films, coached for Oscar-nominated directors, organized Brazil's leading voiceover event, and contributed to the premier audio-tech magazine Sound on Sound. He has given talks and workshops at SXSW, Rio2C, HackTown, Path, and Pixel Show. More at: https://voboss.com/voice-and-ai-new-opportunities

In this episode, Anne welcomes special guest Paul Stefano to talk about using AI voices to your advantage, licensing, and working with ethical companies. Paul ― a voice talent and co-host of the VO Meter Podcast ― talks to the BOSSES about how to approach AI and use your synthetic voice to benefit your business. Did you know there may come a time when AI could help track unauthorized use of voices? AI is here to stay. Flexibility and the ability to pivot are essential skills for successful entrepreneurs. Listen to these BOSSES and get inspired to think of ways to grow your business in our evolving industry. More at: https://voboss.com/voice-and-ai-business-benefits

What if you could use AI to generate passive income? Special guest Rolf Veldman ― CEO of Voice123 ― joins Anne to talk about the state of AI and voiceover and to reveal findings from Voice123’s research on customer-driven AI. These studies are helping lead the way to predict AI’s impact on the VO industry. Anne and Rolf share ideas about what AI means for various VO genres and other forces driving change. Want some valuable insight? Listen to this discussion to ensure you’re delivering what clients need and know how to market your business like a #VOBOSS. More at: https://voboss.com/voice-and-ai-voice-123

Do you have a plan B for your voiceover business? Now is the time to up your acting game so a robot can never replace you! Anne welcomes the dynamic duo of Nic Redman and Leah Marks, hosts of the longest-running, most-listened-to voiceover podcast in the UK! These three BOSSES talk about how to make yourself indispensable as a voice actor and how to advocate for proper AI voice regulation More at: https://voboss.com/voice-and-ai-plan-b

A revolution in the voice industry has begun. In this episode in the AI series, Anne welcomes Hugh Edwards, CEO of Gravy For The Brain, who has produced and directed over 40 AI voice projects. If you think AI means fewer jobs for voice actors, you'll want to listen to this conversation. With more companies creating AI voices, VO is also evolving. Learn why AI is an opportunity to grow your business like a #VOBOSS.  More at: https://voboss.com/voice-and-ai-voice-evolution

In this episode of the VO Boss AI series, Anne welcomes Sam Ufret from Lotas Productions in New York City, and Judy Fossum, a voice talent who has worked in the AI voice realm. Anne, Sam, and Judy discuss producing AI voices, fair compensation, and defining the standards of AI voices. Listen to this stimulating conversation to learn how talent can work with AI to make sure you’re part of shaping this evolving industry. More at: https://voboss.com/voice-and-ai-inside-ai-production

Calling all “sonic talent” to the negotiation table! In this episode in the AI and Voice series, Anne welcomes two special guests to discuss the vital topic of contracts and negotiation ― Jim Kennelly, owner of Lotas Productions in New York City, and Nicholas Sawka ― Chief of Operations at Voice Spark. Learn how the AI industry is developing, how it can enhance your voiceover business, and why you should be excited about its potential. Is your VO business tech-forward? Make sure you’re on the leading edge of technology like a #VOBOSS! More at:https://voboss.com/voice-and-ai-development-negotiations

For this episode in her AI and Voice series, Anne welcomes special guests Ahmed Bouzid, founder and CEO of Witlingo, and Shymala Prayaga, founder of Digital Assistant Academy. These three BOSSES talk ethics, protecting your sonic brand, and AI best practices. Learn ways to use AI to expand your VO business More at: https://voboss.com/voice-and-ai-ethics

For this episode in the Voice and AI Series, Anne welcomes Ryan Steelberg, co-founder and president of Veritone (an artificial intelligence tech company). The two talk about Veritone’s new product: Marvel.ai and how voiceover artists can harness their superpowers with their own AI voice. Have you considered how you might license your AI voice to a third party and receive compensation? Listen to learn how to use the technology to boost your income like a #VOBOSS.   More at: https://voboss.com/voice-and-ai-marvel-ai-with-ryan-steelberg/

Imagine introducing yourself to potential clients using your own voice on Alexa! In this episode, Anne and guest cohost Jennie Stenhouse talk about how to use an exciting new offering for voice talent to add another dimension to your brand. Listen to learn about Voiceweave and using it to expand your reach and take your business to the next level! More at: https://voboss.com/voice-and-ai-conversational-ai-ethan-richardson/

The audio revolution is here! Anne and special guest co-host Dr. Rupal Patel – founder and CEO of Vocal ID – discuss how technology can give a voice to the voiceless. Learn how AI can be used responsibly and make a positive impact on people's lives. There's room for all of us in today's diverse audio landscape. Embrace new technology like a #VOBOSS to build your legacy. More at: https://voboss.com/voice-and-ai-dr-rupal-patel-vocal-id/ 

You are the master of your domain! Anne and special guest co-host Rob Sciglimpaglia, aka “the VO Attorney,” talk about new technologies, synthesized and AI voices, and how the new technology affects the rights of voiceover actors. Rob is representing Bev Standing in the high-profile Tik Tok case that could help set ground rules for fair and ethical use of your voice. Listen to this important episode to make sure you know how to protect your business like a #VOBOSS.   More at: https://voboss.com/voice-and-ai-digital-voice-rights-w-rob-sciglimpaglia/

A modern-day David and Goliath comes to the VO industry. VO Boss Anne Ganguzza welcomes veteran voice actor and industry warrior, Bev Standing. Bev is taking on media giant Tik Tok, for reportedly using her voice without permission. We hear from Bev about the case filed by Rob Sciglimpaglia. Bev’s story is making waves, and has been featured on the BBC, TikTok, and the Canadian National News. The digital and AI voice industry is just beginning. This case could set precedent to help voice actors protect their digital and audio rights and establish fair usage. We at VO BOSS are #StandingwithBev!   More at: https://voboss.com/voice-and-ai-your-digital-voice-rights-w-bev-standing/

Imagine introducing yourself to potential clients in your own voice on Alexa! In this episode, Anne and guest cohost Jennie Stenhouse talk about how to use an exciting new offering for voice talent to add another dimension to your brand. Listen to learn about Voiceweave and using it to expand your reach and take your business to the next level. More at: https://voboss.com/voice-and-ai-introducing-voice-weave/

Anne welcomes guest co-host Jennie Stenhouse from the other side of the globe and a day in the "future." These two BOSSES talk about safety, ethics, and inclusivity in the voice industry. How does personalization impact privacy? How can data help you better serve clients? Listen to this episode to learn how to get the most value from data and make sure you use your powers (your voice) for good! More at: https://voboss.com/voice-and-ai-ethics-in-the-voice-industry

Anne welcomes special guest BOSS Jennie Stenhouse – all the way from New Zealand. Jennie draws on her experiences as a voice developer on projects such as Samsung Bixby and Alexa. Jennie also talks about her position with Women in Voice, a non-profit organization whose mission is to celebrate, empower, and amplify women and minority genders in the voice technology industry. As a talent in the voiceover industry, it’s important to educate yourself like a #VOBOSS about new and emerging technologies that will affect your business.   More at: https://voboss.com/voice-and-ai-women-in-voice