Anne and Lau share a valuable discussion about the pivotal role websites play in any business, and how they can be a driving force behind attracting potential clients. In this episode, The Bosses discuss how a well-presented, professional, and easy-to-navigate website has a crucial role in enhancing online shopping experiences, increasing sales, and building trust with potential customers. Learn how to ensure your website is professional, easy to navigate, and trustworthy to drive potential customers to your content. Transcript: Anne Ganguzza: Hey, hey, everyone. Welcome to the V.O. Boss podcast and the V.O. Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I have today with me the effervescent, lovely, amazing Lau Lapides. Lau Lapides: Keep going Annie, keep going. You don't need to stop. Anne Ganguzza: She Lau Lapides: Ha ha Anne Ganguzza: is everything. She is everything, bosses. Lau Lapides: ha. Aw, thank you. Anne Ganguzza: And we love her, and we Lau Lapides: We Anne Ganguzza: love her. Lau Lapides: love you too. So awesome to be here, always. Anne Ganguzza: Well, it's awesome to have you as usual. So Lau Lapides: Thank you. Anne Ganguzza: today, or I shouldn't say today, but this week, Law, I had a very exciting thing happen to me. I got an email from a potential client that said they had been researching quietly in the background, looking for a new voice for their brand. And they found me. And they listened to my d- demos. They found me like on a Google search and found my website and listened to my demos. And then apparently narrowed down that search to about, I don't know, a handful of people. And they said that they would like me to audition for this very cool possibility for a major brand. And I was so ecstatic because... I didn't do a thing. Like they found me. They found me on a Google search and they found my website and they were able to listen to my demos and they were able to assess, right, my voice, obviously, and decide yes, she's going on a short list. All because I had a really great website that had things laid out easily, easy to find my demos, easily played. and easy to contact me. And so I thought it was important. I thought it would be an important topic to discuss websites. And I know I talk about it incessantly, but I thought let's dedicate an entire episode to websites and how they are so important to your business bosses. Lau Lapides: Oh, that's so fabulous. I'm so happy for you. Anne Ganguzza: Thank Lau Lapides: Congratulations. Anne Ganguzza: you. Yay, thank you. Lau Lapides: Big yay. I love that you got my jazz hands. Whoo. Anne Ganguzza: Thank Lau Lapides: It's really Anne Ganguzza: you. Lau Lapides: awesome. I do have to qualify one thing you said for Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: the listeners and that you said you did nothing. Anne Ganguzza: Oh, well. Lau Lapides: You actually have 25 years behind you that Anne Ganguzza: You're right. Lau Lapides: led up to that moment that made that prospect. clients life really fast and easy Anne Ganguzza: Yes. Lau Lapides: so that they didn't move on to the next person. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: So I just wanted to catch you on Anne Ganguzza: Thank Lau Lapides: that because Anne Ganguzza: you, thank you Lau Lapides: you're Anne Ganguzza: for Lau Lapides: so Anne Ganguzza: that. Lau Lapides: used to Anne Ganguzza: Yes, Lau Lapides: being fabulous Anne Ganguzza: I know. Lau Lapides: that you think you're doing nothing when really you've done all the work leading Anne Ganguzza: Well, Lau Lapides: up to that moment. Anne Ganguzza: and I'll Lau Lapides: Right? Anne Ganguzza: tell you, and I did do the work on my website, my storefront that made that available, right? I'm always saying that you can have the best voice in the world, but it doesn't do you any good if people don't know about you. And one of the easiest Lau Lapides: That's right. Anne Ganguzza: and quickest ways that people can find out information about you and your product and contact you is that website. And so many people put that website on the back burner. Or they're like, I don't have the money to invest. Guys, I'm here to tell you, you have to do that. If you are a business in 2023 or for the past 10 years, if you've been a business, you really need to have that storefront. You need to have that website. It is critical. And I always tell people, don't skimp on it. We talk about investing in our business all the time. And it is one area I think you need to invest. And I've invested over the years, thousands of dollars. I don't want to say that it's super, super expensive. It can be. I'm a big believer in presentation. Really matters. Presentation matters. And so yes, can you do your own website? Sure. Are you a website designer by trade? Maybe not. So I tend to. try to make it as presentable and as professional as possible so that it really makes an impression. Lau Lapides: Yeah, it pops. Yours always pops and it just comes right out at you. So I'm not surprised that you have this huge brand that's looking at you now because you look like a huge brand. You have to you have to Anne Ganguzza: Mm. Lau Lapides: project exactly Anne Ganguzza: Yes. Lau Lapides: the karma and the boomerang that you want to get back. You have to really be honest about that. And when someone says what you just said, Annie, like, oh, I don't have the money for that. Well, make the money. Go Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: go Anne Ganguzza: Oh, Lau Lapides: do Anne Ganguzza: please. Lau Lapides: whatever you need. Wash cars. take care of puppies and Anne Ganguzza: Yes, Lau Lapides: flip pancakes Anne Ganguzza: yes, Lau Lapides: to make the money Anne Ganguzza: wash Lau Lapides: so that you Anne Ganguzza: cars, Lau Lapides: look Anne Ganguzza: clean Lau Lapides: like Anne Ganguzza: houses, Lau Lapides: that. Anne Ganguzza: do whatever you gotta Lau Lapides: Whatever, Anne Ganguzza: do, but get Lau Lapides: we all Anne Ganguzza: that Lau Lapides: did Anne Ganguzza: money, Lau Lapides: it. Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: right? Yes, exactly, and I love that you said that because again, we all did that, right? I mean, Lau Lapides: We all did that. Anne Ganguzza: you'd be amazed at what I do for money, but that's another topic. But, Lau Lapides: By Anne Ganguzza: but. Lau Lapides: the way, websites are cheaper and quicker and Anne Ganguzza: Hmm Lau Lapides: easier to create now than ever. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: I remember the days Anne Ganguzza: and Lau Lapides: where it would take $10,000, Anne Ganguzza: yeah Lau Lapides: $15,000 Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: to make a website. Anne Ganguzza: and well, and I'm gonna mention this I'm gonna qualify this because I have a website that's very functional Okay, I have multiple websites number one I don't think you need to be held to just one website. Although, you know for my voiceover, right? I've got one website, but remember I've got multiple multiple divisions of my business, right? I've got the VO Boss, that's a completely different brand. I've got the VO Peeps, that's a different brand. I've got Nganguza Coaching, that's a different brand. I've got my Studio Cats, that's a different brand. So literally, for each of my brands, I have a separate website. And I, for, depending on what you wanna do with that website, especially because I sell products, I sell physical products, I sell digital products, I sell memberships. And so because of the extensive selling that I do on my website, and I think, hey, every VO needs to be able to sell on their website. You have to make it easy for people to pay you, right? Who wants to step through hoops to make a payment? I mean, Lau Lapides: No Anne Ganguzza: just Lau Lapides: friction. Anne Ganguzza: click, click and pay. Yeah, and same thing with all aspects of your website, right? People should be able to find what they need and buy as quick as possible. Right? Lau Lapides: Yes. Anne Ganguzza: So my websites, and you know you were talking about, they used to cost a whole lot more money. You're right. Any voice actor can get a one page website, and I'm gonna talk a little bit more about that Lau Lapides: Hmm. Anne Ganguzza: a little later, but for not a tremendous amount of money. And I think there are templates out there that can make it look very professional. Lots of great people out there as well. For my websites, because of the extensive functionality, I have memberships, I have multiple ways to pay me, I have calendar appointments, scheduling going on, then that's gonna cost you a little bit more on the back end, but again, it is an investment in your business. Lau Lapides: Mm hmm. Yes. And I want to caution listeners, too, that as much as you want one and need one and eventually will have one, if not more than one, be careful of doing it prematurely. Because I know, Anne Ganguzza: Mm. Lau Lapides: Annie, you go through this. I go through this as on the coaching end. that will get a lot of newbie starters, like within the first month or Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: two, they're just literally investigating VO, they're just starting training, and already they're thinking about, oh, I need a website, I need Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: marketing, I need this. I'm like, wait a second, you don't even know if you like it. Anne Ganguzza: Well, Lau Lapides: You Anne Ganguzza: wait, Lau Lapides: don't even know if you wanna Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: do it yet. Anne Ganguzza: And wait till you get the product to market first, right? Because the whole idea of a website is that you have, well, I should say the whole idea of a voiceover website is that you have a product that you can market. Well, you want to make sure that you have the product first. That means get your coaching. Get your demo, because the demo's going to showcase that product, right? Make sure that you've got those things in place. But I would say it's never too late to start thinking about your website. Start thinking about a brand. But again, that's something that you'll discover as you go. And so I think a lot of times, if you start too early with that website, your branding is not quite finalized. And then that could be costly for you later on, because you could be thinking, oh, I really like this way to brand me. I'm going to use this tagline, or I'm going to use these colors. And then as you evolve in developing your voiceover product, you might say, oh, well, maybe that doesn't fit me as well as this one does. And then you're going to have to rebrand, and that's going to probably cost you more money. So absolutely start planning for it. But there's lots of development work you can do on the back end before it is out there and present on the web, on the interwebs, where people go to your website and they say, but I don't have, there's no demos. How do I hear you? Right? Lau Lapides: And be careful too, that once you do this, or at least the beginning stages of doing this, of saying, I see this all the time. Well, I have my website is up and out, I got my demos on there, I've got some training, I'm ready to go. I'm ready for the jobs, where's my work? Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: Be careful of that way of thinking, because on average, a business that's a startup business in any industry, takes a good three to five years to get Anne Ganguzza: Oh Lau Lapides: off Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: the ground, it just does. Anne Ganguzza: Oh yeah. Lau Lapides: So be careful of this, I'm ready to go. Where's my work kind Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: of mentality? Like you have to work at getting work. You have to earn it. You have Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: to reach out. You have to do the hard work labor of directing traffic to the website. Anne Ganguzza: Yes, Lau Lapides: The Anne Ganguzza: yes. Lau Lapides: website doesn't necessarily do it for you. You Anne Ganguzza: Exactly, Lau Lapides: have to direct Anne Ganguzza: exactly. Lau Lapides: people to the website, right? And... Anne Ganguzza: Exactly. Your content, right, that's out there is what helps to generate the SEO where people are searching for a specific, you know, product or a specific voice that hopefully, you know, it's getting increasingly. difficult that you show up on those pages, right? So if you're not getting good SEO with people finding you through the search engines, you can absolutely put content out there that is of interest to your potential clients. And that can mean social media. You can be entertaining on social media. You can put out blog articles on social media or on your website. You can then drive people to that website so that they can then have access to your demos, to a button where they can click and contact you and say, hey, I have this script, how much would it cost? And of course, I always like to make it easy Lau Lapides: Right. Anne Ganguzza: to pay as well. So absolutely driving. Lau Lapides: I always love to, I'll tell you, speaking as an agent, one of the big things that I'm asked is, how do I deal with driving someone to see my website? I say, easy, give me one link. It should be one link Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: navigation and drive me exactly, point me in exactly what you want me to see. Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: right away. So Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: let's say I'm an agent. I am an agent. I don't want to go through all your pages. I don't want to scroll way down. I don't want to find the Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm, Lau Lapides: demos. Anne Ganguzza: mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: For me, it's the commercial demo. Send me exactly to where the commercial demo Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: is. And then Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: if I have time and I want to scroll down, and oftentimes I do, I'll scroll, I'll Anne Ganguzza: Right. Lau Lapides: see what it looks like. It's kind of cool. But I'm not frustrated trying to find that particular item that I'm looking for. So really point. the people that you're driving in exactly Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: where they need to go so they're not kind of looking around figuring Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: it out, having trouble with navigation. Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Having trouble with navigation. Yeah, that's a big plus, is to be able to have concise information quickly available to the shopper. Now, I always make this comparison that when I shop online, and I love to shop online, I'm a shopper, okay? Lau Lapides: You're a shopaholic. Anne Ganguzza: So the free I kind of am so the first thing I do think about when you shop online, right? What is it that makes you click and buy right Lau Lapides: Mmm, Anne Ganguzza: number one? Lau Lapides: I Anne Ganguzza: It Lau Lapides: like Anne Ganguzza: has Lau Lapides: that. Anne Ganguzza: to be right for me. It has to be a professional looking website It has to really speak to me that this is what okay old Navy sells clothing and accessories And so therefore I was used old Navy, but it could be anything Nordstrom rag It could be all of my favorite places, Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: right? They have to absolutely when I get to that first page have to look professional. They can't be, you know, they have to be with the Lau Lapides: Right. Anne Ganguzza: current, they kind of have to be current trends, you know. It can't be like anything screaming, you know, blinking graphics like from the 90s or, you know, when websites were first made. It can't just be one big long, long page. It has to look professional. I have to be able to access the products that I want right away. I need to be able to find out information right away and I need to be able to maybe read, get more information, or look at pictures of it. Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: And so for a voiceover, I listen to demos, listen to samples, maybe watch videos. And then I need to be able to do, OK, if I have questions, how am I going to get those questions answered? Is there an FAQ? Is there somebody I can contact that I can talk to? Is there a phone number, believe it or not? There are people who still like to talk on the phone, just saying. You know, I like to talk on the phone. When I need to find out information, like I literally. I bought a pair of glasses, there's a big surprise, and I needed to return them so that I could get a new pair of lenses, and I went to the website, they're like, well, we're sorry, we don't make those anymore, right? So you're gonna have to pick out new lenses, or you're gonna have to pick out new glasses, and I'm like, wait a minute, okay, now this is getting complex. So I literally was like, where's the phone number, right? So I got the phone number, I called customer service. So. Things like that, right? So for me, when I buy, what's important for you when you buy, when you go to a website? It looks professional, it's trustworthy, I feel as though I could put my credit card information in there and it wouldn't be stolen or compromised. And so you have to work on creating a business storefront on that website that is trustworthy, professional. and just easy to access and navigate. Lau Lapides: I love that word easy. Easy is the word we wanna keep in mind because as creatives, we wanna go into a lot of content, a lot of information, a lot of different directions because it's a nature of a lot of what we do, but yet the audience does not want that. The audience wants super quick, 10 second, find what I need, look it over fast, Anne Ganguzza: Or Lau Lapides: or, Anne Ganguzza: after that, if they Lau Lapides: or. Anne Ganguzza: want to find out more information, like how experienced are they? How have they been doing this a long time? Now I'm gonna ask you a lot as an agent, and for me also for casting people, a lot of times I will go to their website because it tells me a bunch about their brand. Just like when I research companies, when I'm researching companies so that I can voice their brand more effectively, I look at what is their website saying to me? What is their brand? Who is their audience? Do you, when it comes time to deciding who you might want to put on your roster, let's say, okay, you hear the commercial demo, but don't you also, if you've got, maybe you've got a similar voice, or maybe you're trying to find out if they have versatility in maybe another area, do you not continue to go through their website and or even their social media, right? I think your social media links got to be on there as well to kind of find out more about the person because before I let you speak, we always buy from people we know, like and trust. And that website is going to be the storefront of that in providing that information. Lau Lapides: Yes, I would say yes, and yes, and be Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: careful. Anything that's leading you to anything else, you've got the tentacles out there. So whatever you put on your website may lead you to other places, Anne Ganguzza: Sure. Lau Lapides: whether they're socials or articles or stories, whatever. I would just be careful. Just go through all of that. So play the role of someone who is landing on you and maybe looking at you for a job. Just put yourself Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: in their shoes and say, okay. Joe Smith, great. Let me go and investigate Joe Smith because Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: maybe I want to represent them. What are all the places that I'm led to? Anne Ganguzza: Sure. Lau Lapides: And are they good places? Are they Anne Ganguzza: Sure, Lau Lapides: not Anne Ganguzza: absolutely. Lau Lapides: good places? How do they represent you? Like, you have to be really careful about that. The panel that I was on at the conference that we just attended, one of the agents brought up, one of the casting brought up, you know, be careful of what's on your social media. Anne Ganguzza: Oh, gosh Lau Lapides: Be very Anne Ganguzza: yes. Lau Lapides: careful, Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: right? You may need a You may need, well, you can control that yourself, but you may need a reputation defender type Anne Ganguzza: Absolutely, Lau Lapides: of a service Anne Ganguzza: absolutely. Lau Lapides: to wipe out all your crap that you've done for 10 years, pay Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: him a thousand bucks or whatever it is, and clean your slate. Just like you and Anne Ganguzza: Well... Lau Lapides: I clean our closets and our, right? Clean your online Anne Ganguzza: Wait, Lau Lapides: slate, right? Anne Ganguzza: we are, look, we are celebrities, okay? I'm just saying, right? First of all, I'm manifesting, I'm manifesting. We are celebrities, right? We are Lau Lapides: Yes. Anne Ganguzza: celebrities. And how many celebrities do you know have tarnished their brand, right, by something they've said or something that's gotten out on social media, right, that wasn't appropriate, okay? And so when a brand is going to hire you, a company's going to hire you to represent them, That is of concern to them, right? They don't wanna Lau Lapides: Yes. Anne Ganguzza: be hiring people that are talking, talking badly or poorly Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: on social media or representing themselves poorly because then it's gonna represent the brand poorly. So it starts with your website, because again, if people don't know how to hire you, if they can't find you Lau Lapides: Yep. Anne Ganguzza: and they don't know, it's never going to happen. So that website is... a very, very worthwhile investment. And I'm gonna say, I wouldn't go for the cheapest website developer out there. I just wouldn't. There are some reasonably priced websites that you can, and so I guess the question to me would be, okay, is it good enough? Lau Lapides: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Anne Ganguzza: Well, okay, so for me, right, I don't know. Look at my websites. I spend the money. And I'm just saying, I'm not saying that my websites are the. well, I'm very proud of my websites. I made sure, it took me a long time to find my website designer, and I make sure that I'm refreshing, and I'm trying to update them, so that it is a professional-looking website, and I constantly get complimented on it. And I'm thinking to myself, well, I think that's wonderful, but you could have it too, right? It really comes down to Lau Lapides: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: researching. you know, a good website designer, understanding who you are, what your brand is, what you want to put out there, right, in your storefront. And that requires a lot of work, guys. It's not a, oh, let's do this overnight. Let's get this, and let's just write a quick paragraph bio. Lau Lapides: No. Anne Ganguzza: No, this is something that really has to evolve. And like I said, if you can plan and you can start that planning sooner, I would recommend that, right? Because there's a lot of thought that goes into how you present yourself. Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: And again, I am that type, I will spend the money, I will make the investment to present myself in the very best light possible, right? I wanna be better than every other website out there because I want there to be that little something that people say, you know what, I just, I'm gonna go with her. And again, I cannot tell you how many people who have found me on my website and said, wow, you are so impressed, and they go on about, you are so impressed, and I'm thinking to myself, okay, I'm in. And you know, I've been doing this for a while, thank you. And but in my head, I'm going, okay, but they're going on about it because of the presence, right, that I project. And every one of you can project that presence and manifest that celebrity, right, on your website, because that is going to make such a statement about who you are and what kind of work you're going to be doing for that company. And of course, I am a celebrity, so I manifest it. I'm just saying, Lau Lapides: I'm all Anne Ganguzza: right? Lau Lapides: over that. Anne Ganguzza: Right, Lau Lapides: And Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: I do think there is something to you get what you pay for. Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: I think, Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: you know, but be careful in Anne Ganguzza: Yes. Lau Lapides: who you pay and who you entrust. Like you really have to look at their work, look at their portfolio, see Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: if they're someone that you want to trust with your brand and are they capable? Are they competent? Are they fast, the designer? Are they someone who's gonna stay with you? Or are they just wham bam, done, here, pay Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: me, I'm gone and you never Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: find them again? I would suggest you go with someone who, to some degree, can help you manage it, even though Anne Ganguzza: Yes, Lau Lapides: you're gonna manage Anne Ganguzza: I Lau Lapides: your Anne Ganguzza: agree. Lau Lapides: own site. You Anne Ganguzza: I agree. Lau Lapides: do need an assistant Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: manager, someone who you can connect with, who has that artist mentality and say, Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: yeah, I'm gonna be available to you for help with plugins or help with the backend Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm, Lau Lapides: or Anne Ganguzza: mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: help with stuff that you're just not. capable or competent to do. I also wanted to make mention to any that in regards to like your different websites Be Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: be aware that if you're doing more than one website or even on your one website Don't confuse us that you're in different careers Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: different vocations So what you're talking about is all under the umbrella of your company. Anne Ganguzza: A voiceover. Lau Lapides: It all Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: works hand-in-hand It all is services that make sense to being a voiceover coach and on Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: and on. But don't tell me you're a nurse, don't tell Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: me you're a Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: landscaper, and Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm, Lau Lapides: be careful Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: of talking about your bartending site. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: Because that Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: side hustles that are quiet and Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: underground and for you to have. And I see that a lot with talent actually. Sometimes on the same website, they'll be telling me something that confuses me. Like, I'm like, hmm, are they career? Is this Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: something Anne Ganguzza: Is this Lau Lapides: that Anne Ganguzza: their Lau Lapides: they're Anne Ganguzza: full Lau Lapides: serious Anne Ganguzza: time? Lau Lapides: about? Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, exactly. That's Lau Lapides: Right? Anne Ganguzza: a really wonderful point. Yeah. So you want to make it, you want to make it, you know, that this is your... professional, this is your vocation, this is what you do. Even if you're doing it part time, right? You don't necessarily have to mention that you're doing it part time, but what you showcase to the world is that you are a professional and that you can turn things around within a certain amount of time and that there is no question about that, right? So Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: if you're going to put content on your website that makes us question that, then I might go to another talent. Now, if I had to choose, right? from one talent and I like their voices and I'm like, oh, I like, I love this voice and I love this voice. What's the next thing you're gonna do? Law, look at social media, look at websites, see what they've done before, right? Do they Lau Lapides: Yep. Anne Ganguzza: have other experience that might be, especially if you don't know, right? When I don't know a product and I've never purchased from a store before, I'm looking at testimonials. I am looking at reviews. And of course, that's something that I think is super helpful to have on your website, right? Testimonials, reviews, you know, of your work, because how do I trust, right? And not just reviews on the website. Oh, I think that's a great place to start, because I think a lot of people can actually, you know, put reviews and make them up. But I certainly don't. I don't, but I'm a testimonial. I don't even know what the word is for it, but I am constantly asking for testimonials. But not just putting it on my website, but putting them in blog articles, putting them out there on social media so that they kind of just become all over the place where it becomes a good word of mouth. And also I want to back that up, right, with performance so that people are actually talking about me. And talking about me, that's probably the best, I think one of the best things. that you can do for your career is get people talking about you in a good way, of course. Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: And talking about, God, she's so talented, or I love her voice, she just executed for me and I would hire her again and again and again. And that is people talking, right? In groups and forums, you know, good word of mouth, I'm going to say word of mouth. But to get to the word of mouth, people have to know you, right? And so you have to put yourself out there. first and foremost on a website, right? And then social media, and then back that up with good performance, with reliable, solid work. And then, then after a certain amount of time, hopefully people start talking about you, right? And then that becomes one of the best referrals and best ways of getting the gig ever. Lau Lapides: I love that. I love that. I mean, as an agent, the first thing I'm going to go to Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: on your website are jobs. Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm, Lau Lapides: So Anne Ganguzza: mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: if I see visuals, I'll always go to the visuals first. Actually, before your Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: demo, sometimes I'm a very visual person. So if I see videos, I'm going to run on the assumption those are actual jobs of some kind. I'm going to poke on one or two videos and see if they look like they're professionally produced. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: If they do, then I'm like, oh, this guy, he's selling to you. OK, all right, perfect. Then I Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: kind of listen to the demo, but I already know. He's a top pro, he's already Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: in the Anne Ganguzza: yeah, Lau Lapides: market, on the national market, and he's Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: doing stuff. I just think that's the nature of what we do, moving fast, Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: working at a business level, and working with top notch Anne Ganguzza: And visuals. Lau Lapides: customers and clients, and visuals, yes, Anne Ganguzza: I love that you said Lau Lapides: visuals Anne Ganguzza: visuals because, Lau Lapides: are really important. Cleanliness, Anne Ganguzza: yeah, yes. Lau Lapides: space, structure. A lot of times I'll see the designer put the content in, but it looks messy. It looks... Anne Ganguzza: Mm. Lau Lapides: it looks like it's not formatted well, it looks like it's hard to read, Anne Ganguzza: Mm. Lau Lapides: the font is too small or the colors are wrong. Things like that sort of get in the way of the messaging. So Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: I think one of the more important things is, yes, visuals, but keep it clean, keep it fresh, keep it streamlined, keep it open, keep it easy to read. Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: Above the fold is good. It doesn't mean I won't scroll, I'll scroll, but keep the most important stuff. boom Anne Ganguzza: above Lau Lapides: when I Anne Ganguzza: the Lau Lapides: land Anne Ganguzza: fold. Lau Lapides: on it, it's right there. Your Toyota commercial is right there. Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm, Lau Lapides: I Anne Ganguzza: mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: don't have to look for it, you Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: know? Anne Ganguzza: And again, I like the, like you said, visual. I think visual is so important these days, because again, most of Lau Lapides: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: us have less than a seven second attention span, and that Lau Lapides: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: includes people who are looking for people to hire. And so if you can put the most important stuff above the fold, make it visual. If you just have commercial demo and it's a one, gosh, I'm a big fan of breaking up your demos into each spot and then labeling those spots with, let's say, Ford F-150, Lau Lapides: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: powerful, motivational, that kind of thing. Hogue Hospital, compassionate, warm. So putting those descriptors on the individual spots as well, because people don't click to listen. Sometimes we're not in a spot where we can listen, although you hope that people that are hiring you are going to be listening. But sometimes visually, right? Or they'll see a video of a Ford commercial that you did. And so that alone, and then they'll click and go to the YouTube of it, right? And then maybe on your YouTube channel, you'll have a playlist of all of the work that you've completed. So that kind of just helps and lends itself to your professional credibility. And visual, visual. And Lau Lapides: Peace Anne Ganguzza: again, Lau Lapides: out. Anne Ganguzza: visual, not just in visual videos, but also visual words saying, Ford F-150. They know, oh, she does automotive, right? Or a Hogue hospital, oh, she does health care. Or, you know, I don't know, Dominion Energy. You know, oh, there's an energy spot. I'm an energy company, so I'm gonna click and listen to that spot. Or Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: fast food, right? So people can just get to what they need to quicker, and visually it's there, boom, when it shows up. And then also, you've got the media behind it. And absolutely, I'd say, put everything above the fold that's important, and yeah, make it clean. And I'm gonna say that... Oh gosh, you can think that you can do it yourself. I don't know how many people are like, well, I'm just gonna do it myself because I don't have the money. I'm gonna Lau Lapides: Right. Anne Ganguzza: do it, I'm gonna make my own website. There's a template, I can, you know, Wix has got time. First of all, I'm just gonna say, like, okay, so if you are a website designer, then I would say yes, go ahead and do it yourself. However, you know, there are people trained, and this is what we talk about all the time, like I am Lau Lapides: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: a trained voice actor, why would you hire someone? that, you know what I mean? I've got Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: the experience. I'm a Lau Lapides: Right. Anne Ganguzza: demo producer. It's what I do eight hours a day. So if you want something, you get what you pay for. If you want something awesome, pay somebody that does it. That's their job. So why do you have to do it yourself? Why? Lau Lapides: Exactly, Anne Ganguzza: I mean, Lau Lapides: exactly. Anne Ganguzza: yeah, OK, maybe you're proud. I mean, I tried to do mine myself, because I actually did websites a long time back in the day. But I know enough. to be dangerous. And I know that I may know the back end of things, but I am not a graphic designer. Lau Lapides: Great. Anne Ganguzza: So if you're not a graphic designer, please don't. Please Lau Lapides: And I Anne Ganguzza: don't. Lau Lapides: would say, Anne Ganguzza: Do Lau Lapides: I Anne Ganguzza: it. Lau Lapides: know Anne Ganguzza: I do Lau Lapides: how to Anne Ganguzza: it Lau Lapides: clean my teeth every day. I do it Anne Ganguzza: every Lau Lapides: several times a day, Anne Ganguzza: day. Lau Lapides: but I'm not a dentist. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: Do Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: you know what I mean? I know how to figure out if my heartbeat and my respiratory system is moving fast, but I'm not a doctor. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: So Anne Ganguzza: yeah, Lau Lapides: I think understanding Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: the difference between something that's a layman and a practical Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: matter and something that's a professional and a really learned trade are Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: two Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: very Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: different things. I wanted to say too, this is a creative choice. But I see this more and more and I get a lot of questions, should I show my photo? Because gone are the days where, no, you shouldn't show your photo, don't show your photo. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: Now, a lot of times, companies wanna see who you are. They Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: wanna see what you look Anne Ganguzza: yeah, Lau Lapides: like. And Anne Ganguzza: they Lau Lapides: they might Anne Ganguzza: do. Lau Lapides: even want to reach Anne Ganguzza: They Lau Lapides: out to Anne Ganguzza: do. Lau Lapides: you for on-camera work as well. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: So Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: if you're Anne Ganguzza: And. Lau Lapides: a voiceover interested in on-camera work, or if you do on-camera work, you really have to have the photos of yourself on Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: that website. You really are the face of your voice. Anne Ganguzza: Now, even if you're a character, that's my question. Even if you're a character, do you want to, should you show your face? Lau Lapides: Again, I think it's a creative choice. I don't Anne Ganguzza: I Lau Lapides: think Anne Ganguzza: think Lau Lapides: it's Anne Ganguzza: so Lau Lapides: a Anne Ganguzza: too. Lau Lapides: yes or no, do or don't, but I'll tell you, and this is just me, I'm getting sick of avatars. Anne Ganguzza: Me Lau Lapides: I'm Anne Ganguzza: too, Lau Lapides: getting tired Anne Ganguzza: me too. Lau Lapides: of characters Anne Ganguzza: I'm Lau Lapides: and Anne Ganguzza: getting tired of connecting Lau Lapides: those little Anne Ganguzza: with Lau Lapides: animations. Anne Ganguzza: microphones and Lau Lapides: I'm tired Anne Ganguzza: yeah, Lau Lapides: of Anne Ganguzza: mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: it. And it's not that you shouldn't do it. You Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: should do it, especially if you're an animation actor, Anne Ganguzza: But Lau Lapides: of course, Anne Ganguzza: put a picture Lau Lapides: but Anne Ganguzza: of yourself with Lau Lapides: it Anne Ganguzza: all the Lau Lapides: doesn't, Anne Ganguzza: animated characters that you Lau Lapides: yes. Anne Ganguzza: do, right? Lau Lapides: Think about all the top notch A-listers. Anne Ganguzza: Yes. Lau Lapides: You see Rob Paulson, you see Debbie Derryberry, Anne Ganguzza: Yep, Lau Lapides: you see Anne Ganguzza: yep, Lau Lapides: them as Anne Ganguzza: you see Lau Lapides: a person Anne Ganguzza: Christina Milizia, Lau Lapides: smiling, Anne Ganguzza: you see Bob Bergen, and you see Lau Lapides: right? Anne Ganguzza: them with all Lau Lapides: Warm, Anne Ganguzza: the characters they've done. Lau Lapides: coming out to you, and then Anne Ganguzza: Yep, Lau Lapides: you see all the characters they've done. Anne Ganguzza: yep, absolutely. Lau Lapides: Because their Anne Ganguzza: And they're Lau Lapides: PR, Anne Ganguzza: gonna do videos. Lau Lapides: their manager says you need to be seen. This is your name and your Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: brand. Anne Ganguzza: yeah, Lau Lapides: So that's all I'll say, it's up to you, but that's Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: all I'll say, you know? Anne Ganguzza: I am a big believer in that, you know, that Lau Lapides: Me Anne Ganguzza: oh, I've Lau Lapides: too. Anne Ganguzza: got a face for radio kind of thing. Lau Lapides: No. Anne Ganguzza: Gone are those days. People Lau Lapides: No. Anne Ganguzza: want to connect with people, guys. Lau Lapides: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: They just do. Lau Lapides: And the more real you are, the better. I don't think Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: they're looking for a supermodel. They're Anne Ganguzza: No, Lau Lapides: not looking Anne Ganguzza: no. Lau Lapides: for an untouchable. They're looking for someone who looks like them that's doing incredible and miraculous things. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: That's what they're looking Anne Ganguzza: yeah, Lau Lapides: at, you know. So I think that that's fantastic. And Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: so, you know, your website is you and it's changeable and it's manageable Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: and you can shift it. It's not written in stone. It's Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: a work. Anne Ganguzza: as you Lau Lapides: It's Anne Ganguzza: evolve, Lau Lapides: a work in progress. Anne Ganguzza: as you evolve, your website evolves. So guys, bosses, get that website. And really, it is an important, really start thinking about it. It is an important part of your business, super important part of your business. So, Law, thank you again for an amazing discussion. I could Lau Lapides: incredible. Anne Ganguzza: go on and on and on about websites. But we do want to let you guys listen to our next episode. We're going to have you consume all of our episodes. And so I am going to ask you, bosses, if you have a local nonprofit that's close to your heart, do you ever wish that you could do more to help them? Well, you certainly can. Visit 100VoicesWhoCare.org to learn how. And big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. We love them, IPDTL. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTL.com. Law, I love you. Lau Lapides: I love Anne Ganguzza: That's Lau Lapides: you Anne Ganguzza: it. Lau Lapides: too. Anne Ganguzza: That's Lau Lapides: I Anne Ganguzza: all, Lau Lapides: love Anne Ganguzza: bosses. Lau Lapides: everything about you. Anne Ganguzza: And bosses, we love you too. So we hope you'll join us next week and you guys have an amazing week We'll talk to you soon. Lau Lapides: Talk Anne Ganguzza: Bye Lau Lapides: to you soon.

In part 2 of our Mythbusters series, we delve deep into why investing in a professional demo producer and voice coach makes a significant difference in your VO success. We highlight the essence of genre proficiency, self-direction, and social media, and why it's a better choice to develop these skills with professional guidance rather than attempting to do it yourself. We also dive into the nitty-gritty of essential voiceover artist's tools, shedding light on the need for a quality home recording set-up and a good noise floor over splurging on an expensive microphone.  0:00:01 - Intro It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VEO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza  0:00:20 - Anne Hey, hey everyone, welcome to the VEO Boss podcast and the real boss series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, along with my real boss co -host, Mr. Tom Dheere. Hey, tom, welcome to the show.  0:00:32 - TOm Hello Ann, Thanks for having me back.  0:00:34 - Anne Oh, Tom, we had the best episode last week on mythbusters busting the myths about voiceover and telling the real truth. So we did part one, we're back for part two, and boy do we have a lot of great stuff to talk about. Yeah, I would like to start off with oh gosh, it's just such a big topic these days Social media and voice seekers. Is it going to get us work by posting on social media, Tom? What do you think?  0:01:05 - TOm Okay, there's like 15 qualifiers I gotta have when I'm gonna say this. I hear you. So at the beginning, I'm gonna say that, for the most part, voice seekers are paying absolutely no attention to anything that any of us are doing on social media. Now, with that in mind, that's a very broad brush stroke and for the most part, they are not paying attention to your hey listen, check out this explainer video I just did. Aren't I awesome? They're not paying attention to any of that stuff. For the most part, if a voice seeker is vetting you via your social media presence, it's to either see if you're an NDA violator, to see if you're a client basher oh, can you believe this stupid sentence they made me pronounce, which I see every day on social media or if you're some form of political or religious whack job that has the potential to damage their reputation. Yes, exactly.  0:01:58 - Anne Oh, absolutely, tom. And I'm gonna say, first of all, why don't we step back and say how do you engage on social media? Like, for me, it's all about entertainment, right? Yes, at this point there's so much out there. If I'm going to social media, it's going to be looking for an influencer that might be showing me about the brand that I'm interested in. I might be looking at clothes or makeup or curling irons and I want to find out how they work and if they work great.  Now, I'm not saying that a voice actor can't be on social media and demonstrate that you have a great voice. However, I think that whole direct sale method which doesn't work for voiceover, right, whenever it's supposed to be sellier or an answery also pertains to social media. So that means just provide entertainment and as a hashtag maybe, or in the notes maybe, throw in that you're a voice actor, because people buy from people they know, like and trust, and that, I think, is what you use social media for and so entertain people, give them something of value, and then they'll pay attention and then maybe they'll say, oh, you know what she's got? A great voice. I love her personality. I bet you sound great doing this campaign.  0:03:07 - TOm Yeah, so there's my social media presence as a voice actor and there's my social media presence as the video strategist. So, putting the video strategist over there, which is a different animal, as a voice actor, I feel that my job is to just to demonstrate my humanity.  I like that because I always tell my students be a good human, collect good humans, demonstrate your humanity online, which has a lot of virtue on multiple fronts. Well, one right now and this is something we could talk about is that I think more and more voice aegers are going to look to see that, when someone submits an audition, that they're actually not an AI, that they're an actual human being.  0:03:39 - Anne Oh, I agree.  0:03:39 - TOm So looking around and going okay, this person is a human. Okay, cool. Yeah, that's a small percentage, but I think that percentage will grow.  0:03:45 - Anne That's how I've met my clients actually right and are they real? Now see, I've got another idea for an episode. It's like have you ever not gotten paid right? Well, I've met my clients in a lot of ways and that's one way make sure they're human. I might actually pick up a phone. Just saying I might pick up a phone to see if there's a human on the other end of it.  0:04:02 - TOm Right. So demonstrating my humanity as a voice actor is just people work with people that they like people work with people that they trust people work with people that aren't putting on airs.  0:04:14 - Anne And are authentic.  0:04:15 - TOm Yeah, so I'm a geek. I like comic books. I talk about comic books and superheroes. I like comic book movies and stuff. So a lot of my content is talking about that. I live in New York City, I walk around New York City with my wife, I take pictures of interesting things I see in New York City and, yes, I do occasionally do a social media post pertaining to some voiceover work that I've done, but it's never about me. It's always about the product or the service, the client or whatever. So, for example, I got a one voice award nomination. Didn't win, but that's okay. I was in honor to be nominated about it's a public service announcement I did for the Humane Society of America that talked about the 4000 Beagles they rescued from that lab in Virginia last year.  This PSA announced that all 4000 Beagles got adopted, so I got cast to do that and what I said in social media is that I have owned two Beagles. I'm a dog lover, I've owned two Beagles, so being given the honor and privilege of narrating that spot meant a lot for me as Tom Dheere human being Not about don't I sound wonderful in this and I got engagement through that. I got positive responses through both voice seekers and fellow voice actors, and just friends and family that are also following me on social media. So that's a way to do it.  0:05:32 - Anne I think it just is not one of those things where you're going to create an ad that says, hey, I'm a voice actor, let me voice your copy and then run that out on social media. It doesn't work that way. I think there's more of the relationship. I mean. To me, social media has become all about relationship building and really just entertainment, because we are just inundated with content and chaos, online material, and so I think, for me, I go to social media to kind of just get away from it all in a way, and I seek out those things that entertain me or provide value for what I'm looking for.  Again, for me, I'm a big shopper, I'm a big online shopper, so now I'm looking for influencers and I'm looking for video of influencers, and I will say that my example of somebody who's so effective at really creating business for himself is Stefan Johnson, who does a series on TikTok and Instagram where he talks about food and he does like food reviews and he's funny as hell and just the fact that he's entertaining he's funny as hell.  He's got maybe that hashtag voice actor. Everybody has come to know and love him because he's sent thousands of videos and he's got like a billion followers, and so, yes, that works amazingly well. And, tom, I know that we had discussed this earlier, but let's say you are the voice in a video game or the voice of a national brand, and the other thing, you want to make sure that you are on social media, that you're being careful that you're not, like crazy, bashing other people or doing something that would risk the brand integrity of the company that you work for. I mean, one of those famous cases back in the day when I think the first thing was, oh gosh, it was the Aflac. Was that the Aflac commercial?  the duck and people that just in a minute you can ruin a brand by saying the wrong thing or doing the wrong thing on social media. So I think you have to be very careful.  0:07:27 - TOm I'll give you a name. Dropy example, because I'm very excited about it, is that in a few weeks the Inspector Gadget video game releases and I am Inspector Gadget.  0:07:35 - Anne Yeah, you congrats which.  0:07:36 - TOm I'm very thank you. I'm very excited about that and I had been talking to my business.  0:07:40 - Anne You are such an Inspector Gadget, I can totally, totally see that Go go Gadget roller skates. Well cast, well cast.  0:07:48 - TOm Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, and so, as I was trying to plot out a marketing campaign, I quickly realized it's not a good idea, because I don't want to interfere with the brand that is, inspector gadget and I don't want to interfere with the video game production company that did it and I don't want to cause any potential issues with my manager got me that audition that cast me so I will piggyback retweet.  Yes, yes, absolutely, whatever they do very smart and say, and again, it won't be about me, it'll be. I watched inspector gadget when I was a kid and it was such an honor to be able to be the voice of a character that I loved listening.  0:08:29 - Anne Tom, that's so awesome. I'm so happy for you. I mean thank you. They don't call you the strategist for nothing. I'm just saying that's a really wise strategy to retreat, retreat. Well, it is a treat reacts now, I think yeah, reax what is it?  0:08:42 - TOm yeah, what is that? Or?  0:08:43 - Anne thread, re, thread it forward, that repost, all that stuff is really wonderful, okay. So now I've got another myth. Okay, that I hear all the time. Okay, coaches and demo producers, can we just make our own demos? Can we just DIY? I can do it. You don't have to spend all the money. Don't fall prey to the predators and look full disclaimer here. I am a coach and I am a demo producer, so we are talking about this. However, I do want to address that you know a lot of people Will be crucified for doing their own demo. I can certainly throw in my opinion as to why. I think maybe that's for some people, maybe that's okay, but I'm gonna say the vast majority. There's a good reason why we are out here producing demos right.  0:09:28 - TOm So most of the time when a person decides they're gonna record their own demos because they can't afford to hire somebody to do yes Percentage of those it's out of just arrogance. I can just do this myself. I'll just go in my bathroom and close the door and just do it, and I will have no training and I will be recording in a not good environment and I'm just gonna direct myself because I can do this.  0:09:49 - Anne Yeah, I have the technology.  0:09:54 - TOm This is what I tell my students and when I do speaking engagements and conferences. The virtue of a demo producer is the virtue of a demo producer like an Is not necessarily the finished product of the shiny demo in your hand. I think it's three things. Number one and or other quality demo producers is going to teach you genre proficiency, how to narrate e-learning as opposed to video games, as opposed to audio books as opposed to medical. So what muscles do you need to flex to be able to do this particular genre well? And there are always tips and tricks and nuances and subtleties for every genre, and an experience coach and demo producer like and can teach you that.  The second thing and this is a big reason why you shouldn't record your own is what I call ism detection. Everybody has their own ism. Some people talk fast, some people talk slow, some people upward and flex, some downward and flex. Some have regionalism and has not your ears so she can hear your isms, identify your isms, talk to you about why do you have those isms and is it a problem that you need to eliminate? Is it something that you need to learn how to toggle on and off like a switch, or is it something that you can use to enhance your performance and possibly enhance your brand. Sure, good demo coach like and, can do that.  And the third one is the art and science of self direction. Yes, oh yes, you have to learn how to self direct. It is practically impossible to teach yourself how to self direct in a vacuum. Yeah, and and other quality demo producers can teach you how to do that. So it's not the finished product, it's all the things that you learn. That gets you to that finished product or makes working with a demo producer important.  save your money, be patient. That's another thing, ann, about most voice actors coming into the industry is that they are distressingly impatient and they make big mistakes by spending all this money on products and services and coaches that will not move their voiceover business for because they're so desperate to do it.  0:11:51 - Anne Or I'm going to say they come in and they don't have any money to spend and I don't look. I'm not here to shame people who are financially you know what I mean looking for a new resource or revenue stream. But like in any good business, tom and I say this over and over again you do have to invest, and one of the reasons why you would save to make an investment, tom, you said everything so eloquently and so well that really you don't have ears yet, and so while technically you may be able to go, even if you had a nice studio and you bought the best equipment and you have a good sound and you're a musician right and you have the capability to put things together, you know the software you don't necessarily have the ear and you don't necessarily have the experience or understand what content is driving this demo. How are you telling that story? How is that being put together to really showcase your acting in its very best light?  Because if you're new to the industry, you don't know right, you don't know what that is yet, and it's hard for you to hear that or have an ear for that, and so that's one of the best reasons to hire a professional. It's kind of like look, I worked in technology and I worked in computers and running our computer department and I did a website for years for the school district that I worked for. But do I make pretty websites? I know functionally what I want to do, but I cannot do the graphics. It's not what I was trained to do and so, therefore, hire somebody that's trained and then that's what they do all day, every day.  They work in the industry. They know what's trending, they know what's current, and that's why it really helps to have a vetted coach and demo producer, not just one that's going to take your money and give you a demo after a weekend. Again, that's the big misnomer is that I can do a couple of sessions and then get a great demo after a weekend. Well, if you've not spent any time actually studying and practicing to be a professional voiceover actor, you really don't have any business making a demo, because that demo, as Cliff Zelman always likes to say I always like to quote Cliff is a promise right that you're going to be able to recreate that sound any given day or night when you're being requested to. And so, if? Well, I guess if you do your own, you could probably reproduce that sound, but still I feel like without the coaching you're not going to be able to get to the sound. That is probably what most clients want without the work without the work involved.  right, you got to spend more than four hours of your life on voiceover to be professional, right, I'm just saying Nobody thinks they can pick up a violin immediately and start playing at a concert level.  0:14:25 - TOm But everybody that has an interesting voice thinks they can start doing voiceovers professionally immediately.  0:14:30 - Anne And the other thing is self-study right, like coaching. Like you can buy these online workshops and programs and I'm all for online education. I have a VO peeps group. I have my own introduction to voiceover kind of web series. I know, tom, you've got videos that you sell and I'm not saying that you cannot do that to just buy that and learn voiceover on your own. However, I'm going to say there's great value in having a coach, work with you one-on-one, so that they can really assess your voice vocally, brand your voice and have that set of ears that can tell you oh I hear this regionalism here. Oh, I hear this, I don't believe you. I need you to make that script more believable. So there's a lot to be said for having a valuable extra set of ears on the other end of that and to help coach you through the things that you don't know yet.  0:15:18 - Tom Yeah.  0:15:19 - Anne All right, and speaking of which, when we want to sell ourselves, right Tom, there's something called a website which, for most people, most of my students, is like an afterthought. They're like, oh yeah, I got to get a website. Well, I can make my own website. I can do a template on, I don't know, weebly or Wix or whatever that is. What are your?  0:15:36 - TOm thoughts. Well, it's funny because people have these assumptions coming into the industry I need an agent, I need to join the union and for many of them, it's I need a website, or it's I don't need a website because I'm going to get a big honking agent immediately and they'll just do all the work for me. The problem is is that most voice actors don't understand why they need a website.  0:15:59 - Anne And why a voice actor needs a website is for a couple of reasons.  0:16:03 - TOm One is for just credibility. Just so if someone looks you up or if you market to them and there's a website to go to, it's like, oh okay, this is a human, possibly, hopefully, human being, and here's their website and here's their demos and here's their verbiage and there's a picture of them maybe or not, or a little about page or something, or something like that, and it's like, oh okay, this is who they are. So credibility is one thing. And then, if they get that website, there's another myth, which is people are going to find me through my website. They're just going to look stuff up on Google, bing, yahoo or whatever and find you. And that is, 99% of the time, patently false, because there are literally tens of thousands of voiceover websites out there. So your job as a voice actor is to build the website and then drive traffic to the website through your direct and indirect marketing strategy.  0:16:55 - Anne And make it functional so that people can actually find you, contact you and hire you and pay you. Yes, that's it, yes, and to that end your website.  0:17:05 - TOm The most important thing that your website needs to do is one thing have downloadable demos.  0:17:10 - Anne Yes, I'm the big believer in first impressions Really make a difference.  You know, if I go to a website and I feel like, oh God, this is just like every other website I've seen, and it's a little bit like antiquated or if I cannot access the information I need right away and functionally be able to navigate it easily, and also it has to be pleasant to look at For me. I mean, gosh, I worked in technology for so many years and I actually ran the web servers Back in the day. I knew Jumala and I used to put content into our websites, but I certainly am not a graphic designer by design at all. I mean, I didn't go to school for it. I know what I like, I know what looks pretty, and so for me to think that I could make it look beautiful, I'm gonna hire somebody that does that as a full-time gig and that I believe first impressions are everything, because when I go to a website, it immediately establishes an idea of the brand right, of who I'm dealing with, who I'm talking to. They're human, like you said, and I get a sense of who they are, and it also gives me a sense of trust. Will I trust this person to click the button to pay them or click the button to contact them? And that's what I want Because, again, I'm a big online shopper just saying God, people are gonna have this idea about me, but all I do?  I mean, gosh, the pandemic didn't help at all, right? So all I did was click, click, click, bye, bye, bye, because we weren't going anywhere, right? So online shopping is a big thing for people. And again, convenience, and also like, okay, should I? What do I feel about this product? How do I feel about this product? Is it good? Am I gonna buy something that's worth it, that's gonna be worth my money, and that is something that your website is a showcase of your brand, your value, your worth. And if you don't wanna invest in that, in that look, in that first impression, well, you might be losing business.  0:18:59 - TOm Right. Everything, ann, you said is 1,000% correct and I'm gonna give all you VO bosses out there a little bit of a break. So think about this the vast majority of the work that you're gonna get when you're early in your voiceover career is online casting sites. Right, you join online casting sites, you do auditions, which is short term. It's not short term because I'm still on them, but I'm saying is it's the easiest way to get casting opportunities is through online casting sites. While you are developing your auditioning abilities, your rate negotiation abilities, your DAW abilities, your project management skills on online casting sites, you can start with a Wix or a Weebly or a Squarespace free site. For starters, this is a basic, basic landing page and as you are slowly building your direct and indirect marketing skills, and evolving your brand and your brand and your portfolio.  Now you can start to take those gigs that you've booked, the brand that you have developed and slowly layer and build that website. So this isn't something that you should feel pressure to have perfectly right out of the gate, because once you get that shiny demo in your hand, you probably have no idea what your brand is and you have no idea what the industry is going to say to you I thought I needed to do commercials when I started the industry and then I found out that my niche is primarily e-learning, so it's okay.  Start with a basic website Wix and Weebly, squarespace, whatever and then, as you are developing yourself, do everything that Ann just said to get your website to a point. When you are ready to really hit the ground with direct and indirect marketing strategies and driving traffic to your website, it will be ready.  0:20:39 - Anne Yeah, totally agree, totally agree. And people always say, well, should I do my website? I'm just beginning voiceover. I always say it's a good idea to start thinking about it because a website evolves over time. I mean it's not like you're going to have a perfect website overnight. God, if I were to show you pictures of my initial websites, whew mine is the worst. And how it's evolved.  0:20:57 - TOm You know the Internet Archive. You can go to Internet Archive. Yes, yes, yes, yes, once in a while for fun, I'll go and look at mine, because tomdeercom was first created 2002. So my website is 20, it's going to be 21 years old in a couple of weeks and it is a dumpster fire.  0:21:11 - Anne I had a microphone. I had a microphone as a logo, of course, with a flourishy thing coming out of it, and I'm not saying hey look some people have microphones for logos or built into the logo. I'm not bashing it, but it was. Every other website that was a voice actor had that microphone.  And yeah but that's okay. I mean, we learn, we evolve, and we evolve along with our brand. So, yes, all right, here's another one, and the last one I think that we'll have time for, and that is I need a 416. I need a U87. I need a TLM 103. I need really good equipment. Now I am speaking on a 416, but I will tell you that it took me 10 years to get that. So do I need great equipment, especially now because everybody says, since the pandemic, our home studios have to be like perfect, we have to have good sound for our additions, otherwise we may not get cast. What are your thoughts, tom?  0:21:59 - TOm I think it's a parallel between developing that website and developing your home recording setup. I started home recording in 2006 and I'm only on my third microphone.  0:22:09 - Anne Oh my God, me too. Oh my God, oh my God, really that is crazy.  0:22:12 - TOm Wow, that's so weird, okay, okay.  0:22:14 - Anne Wow, at2020, rode NT1A and then TLM 103 and then 416.  0:22:20 - TOm My first one was a Samson something I don't even remember what it was. And then my second one. It's an AKG perception 420. It's in my closet because it's my backup mic. And then my third mic is the 416 I'm talking to right now, which I got this in 2016. So I've had this microphone for about seven and a half years. Yeah, so I worked up to it. It's crazy, because you can't spend too much money on a microphone. You want to spend $10,000 on a microphone. You can, but how many people?  0:22:50 - Anne need that no.  0:22:50 - TOm You can start with just a basic functional microphone.  0:22:54 - Anne I have recommendations on my video strategy, just your page.  0:22:56 - TOm And I know Ann has recommendations, so I suggest you check out both of them to check out some options, because there's a price range. But the other side of that is that, yes, when a voice seeker is listening to your audition, they're not just listening to your performance, they're listening to your home recording setup, because almost 90, almost 100% of the time these days you're going to be booking your gigs at home, so it's important to have a good sounding studio.  It's important to have a good standing, but your microphone is not as important as the treatment of where the microphone is, because if you buy a microphone, that's too good upfront and you have a lousy recording environment it's going to pick up every single flaw in your setup.  0:23:39 - Anne I like how you really specified that, because I completely agree with you. Your environment, I think is, even is the most important.  0:23:45 - TOm Absolutely, because your microphone is only as good or bad as the environment that the microphone is in.  0:23:50 - Anne So that could take a little pressure off you so invest in that first is what I said, because then you can get a cheap microphone and it'll sound great for the most part. Well, maybe not complete, but it'll sound a whole lot better. It'll work.  0:24:02 - TOm The output will be more comparable, because all you really need is just clean audio with a decent noise floor, no major buzzes or hums. And also, you know, on a sidebar, don't worry about EQ processing, mastering and all that stuff. I don't know what you do for your signal chain and stuff, ann, but I have almost nothing on mine. My clients want raw audio.  0:24:25 - Anne I have an Apollo and literally and just my 416.  0:24:29 - TOm Yeah, I got my 416 and my Mo2, m2 and that's it no crazy stuff.  0:24:33 - Anne I mean, I do have a stack. I think it's important to have you know a stack that you can run to kind of clean up your audio a little bit.  0:24:39 - TOm I do too.  0:24:40 - Anne But yeah, I mean absolutely. But I will say that in this studio, right, I love my studio, Tim Tippets, love, love, love, love my studio.  Custom built by Tim, custom built by Tim. I literally could bring any mic I have. As a matter of fact, I have a USB AT2020 in here that I use for other applications because it only works with a USB mic. It sounds great in here and so, like I'm saying, is that you don't want to have a completely cheap mic? I mean you can tell the difference, but I will say that it took me almost 10 years before I worked up to a TNL103, but I had to have the environment first and then I could hear the actual difference between my NT1A, which was great, which worked for me for six years. I made a lot of money with that microphone in a decent environment, and that's a really reasonable priced mic, as well as your audio interface, which I'm not a big fan of. The Scarlett Focusrite just because for a while they had cheap components, they were introducing hissing and weird noises. I love the UR22, it's 169 bucks.  0:25:40 - TOm That's the Steinberg.  0:25:41 - Anne The Steinberg yeah.  0:25:42 - TOm Yeah, I had the UR12, it was great.  0:25:44 - Anne It worked for years and then I just upgraded to an Apollo, which I love it, but it's also flighty and a little bit it's a little bit flighty with my operating system, but that's okay. I mean I love it. But I think that you can absolutely get away with a reasonably priced microphone, as long as your environment is good and other equipment.  0:26:03 - TOm Right, and as you get more work, you will be reinvesting in your training, you'll be reinvesting in your website and you'll be reinvesting in your gear and specifically your microphone. So, it's okay to start with a cost-effective microphone. You'll get better once down the road.  0:26:15 - Anne Absolutely, absolutely Well. And then, once you do have I've traded right you have a good microphone. It lasts for years. Like gosh, I've had my 416 for I don't know how many years and it goes traveling with me too. I mean, I pull it out, it goes traveling for years, so it's not like you need a new microphone every year, although if you're a tech geek, I mean.  0:26:35 - TOm Well, some people collect microphones just because it's fun, and if you wanna do that, you can afford it.  0:26:38 - Anne great it's like me, I have lipstick color clothes, boots, shoes, handbags. Yeah, I need the new handbag. I need the new mic.  0:26:45 - TOm You need two. Yeah, you need one to talk into and you need a backup in case something horrible happens Exactly backup's great, Some have more than one if there's genre reasons, but the majority of people only really need one microphone and then have one as a backup in case something goes wrong.  0:26:59 - Anne All right, I love this conversation, tom. Thank you again for busting the mists via bosses. Don't believe everything you hear and come to the source. Come to the real boss source. And that's with Tom and I for this series. You guys, as individuals, you can have a big impact, and as a group, you can have even more of an impact and contribute to the growth of our communities in ways never before possible. Find out more at 100voiceshoocareorg to learn how and big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl you too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week, be real and we'll see you next week. Bye.  0:27:44 - OUtro Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, ann Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to Coast connectivity via IPDTL.  Transcribed by https://podium.page

  How do you turn a lifelong passion for music, radio, and video games into a successful career in voice acting? Join me as I chat with Jim Fronk, a seasoned radio veteran who transitioned into voice acting, entertaining people with his dynamic performances and engaging characters.  But that's not all, Jim’s talents extend beyond the microphone. He's also a whizz in website development, skills he's utilized to build successful websites for fellow voice actors. He delves deep into the magic of website creation, including the critical elements of a voiceover website and how you can create a one-page website in record time. Get ready to be inspired, entertained, and better yet, educated by Jim's wealth of knowledge and experience in the voice acting industry. Don't miss out! About Jim Jim has always been creative and secretively a tech geek. While working at radio stations, he gravitated towards graphic arts and webmaster duties. Through the years he created websites, not only for some of his ventures but for other radio friends and their DJ/entertainment side hustles. When Jim entered the VO world, he was amazed at how much it cost to have a basic cookie-cutter website built for a voice actor. So Jim created his 3-Hour Learn-By-Doing Website Creation Class. For a fraction of the cost, he teaches you how to create, update, and expand your own VO website as your business expands. Check out www.WebsitesForVO.com for more details. 00:01 - Intro (Other) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a V-O boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the V-O Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am very excited to be here with a very special guest, our 20-plus year radio vet turned voice actor, Jim Fronk. Oh, thanks for having me. Oh, jim, jim, jim, let me just tell the listeners a little bit about you, oh by all means.  00:40 I'm glad that you were so excited. Thank you for being here, jim. Let me tell our listeners a little bit about you. You've been behind the microphone in your happy place since you were 10, the tender age of 10. And since then, jim has been acting and singing his way into our hearts, doing improv, stand-up comedy, live, announcing, djing on air, and now he's in his very own 5x8 padded closet capturing our hearts. So, jim, thank you, thank you, thank you for being here with us today.  01:10 - Jim Fronk (Guest) Well, thank you, I'm glad that I'm padded, because the funny thing is I got out of radio because it got so impersonal. I started voice tracking and I was on nine different stations, six different states, at the same time, and I was just in a 10x10 room recording and I'm sick of that, so I ended up in a 5x8 room.  01:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now a 5x8. Yeah, somehow that's smaller, so okay, but it's padded, so that's better.  01:33 - Jim Fronk (Guest) And this is my happy place. I love being here, I love playing behind the microphone. So I started at 10 years old singing. My dad always said that I would either be a politician or a radio disc jockey. Because of my gift of gab and the way that I like to spin the truth now and then, what would you sing?  01:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's my question. What genre would you sing? Jazz, you sing in classic rock.  01:54 - Jim Fronk (Guest) Classic rock for the most part.  01:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Classic rock yeah.  01:58 - Jim Fronk (Guest) Actually back in 2000,. I was Ed McMahon's nextbigstarcom winner of the rock category. What did you sing? I sang Better Roses by Bon Jovi.  02:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, my God. Of course, at least she sang Bon Jovi. I was just going to say I'm thinking, bob Seeger, I don't know why. I've done some Bob. Yeah, I've done some Bob Seeger, I like the doors, yeah.  02:16 - Jim Fronk (Guest) I like the doors, my go-to when the bands are playing and they're like hey, come on up and sing. My go-to is Roadhouse Blues.  02:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh God, if we are lucky bosses, we might get to hear, I don't know, a bar or two.  02:27 - Jim Fronk (Guest) Maybe if you go to Uncle Roy's this year or maybe actually if you went to Uncle. Roy's next year. I'll talk to them.  02:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Next year. Oh yeah, hey, I personally have never heard you sing and I would absolutely love to hear you sing.  02:39 - Jim Fronk (Guest) You might be able to YouTube something Just saying there might be some poison out there.  02:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Before we talk a little bit more about your journey into voiceover, because you've had such a long history behind the mic, I need to ask you about the 7.36 pounds of shelled blue peanut M&Ms that you requested from me in my little inquiry into hey, you want to be a podcast guest? What do you require? And so you asked me for shelled blue peanut M&Ms, and I could only find the brown ones.  03:08 - Jim Fronk (Guest) And yet they're still not here.  03:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Somehow, oh, but they're virtually here.  03:11 - Jim Fronk (Guest) Oh, virtually Okay, great, I don't know. I was just trying to think of something weird to put on there that I need, because I really don't need anything.  03:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm actually kind of hungry for some M&Ms. But, Jim, it's already been a wonderful five minutes chatting with you. I can't wait to dive deeper into your journey. So share with our listeners how your journey kind of got to be 20 plus years behind the mic doing radio. How did you get there? As a small child you were singing, right. Were you singing classic rock at the age of 10?  03:43 - Jim Fronk (Guest) Well, I was singing what was considered just normal pop music, I guess, yeah, and then classic rock was just music, but I did that. But when I got into school I really got into mixing things and I was making mixtapes before mixtapes were a thing.  03:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I made mixtapes. I remember them.  04:01 - Jim Fronk (Guest) I was scratching records so things would skip at a certain point and you put a quarter on top, make a knot skip. No-transcript, Mr Jaws, Dr Demento.  04:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh God, yes, I might be dating myself here, but I listen to Dr Demento every Sunday evening. Love Dr.  04:16 - Jim Fronk (Guest) Demento oh my God my favorite show. But they always had Mr Jaws. It was kind of like Mr Jaws, so why are you here? Right now, and then it'd be a song, so I used to try to do those myself.  04:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And Delilah. I listened to Delilah too. Delilah yes, yeah, delilah's on the air forever. But then I got into radio.  04:33 - Jim Fronk (Guest) When I was in high school, I was at a party.  04:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Okay.  04:36 - Jim Fronk (Guest) I was a senior, it was a junior's party. He was trying to be class president and I was just there being me. I mean, I am your extrovert, you know I talk to everybody, I say hi to everybody. It gets me in trouble sometimes, but whatever. But I was just being me and this guy walked up and said hey, listen, I'm the lawyer of this small little cable radio station downtown Woburn, which is my hometown. He goes do you want to try out? Okay, so I went home the next day. I got my Peter Brady tape recorder. We have to hold down the record and you know what I'm talking about.  05:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I know exactly. I used one of those in college when I was recording textbooks on tape. Oh, there you go. I know the realistic. Or it was a Panasonic, I can't remember.  05:13 - Jim Fronk (Guest) I think it was realistic because I did have a radio shack within walking distance and my transistor was in there. Everybody did.  05:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wait, I'm sorry, but we're just going all over the place. So my brothers are very much into Heath Kits, heath Kits, heath Kits. Yeah, building electronics Like we did that from Radio Show. Oh my God, they would just build their own little like transistor radios and stuff.  05:29 - Jim Fronk (Guest) I never got into that but I mean, as I got into radio I did get my engineering junior engineering badge from the engineering people, but whatever. So I went home the next day I had my Peter Brady tape recorder and I had my Precorp eight track player, my stereo system at home, and yes, I'm name dropping here. With Precorp I put in Led Zeppelin and you know I talked out of a Led Zeppelin song and I had to wait because you couldn't rewind eight tracks so you only had one take. Well, you had to wait for the next song. It took me all afternoon to get like three intros and three outros and I ended up getting the gig, which was kind of cool. They made me change my name. They didn't want anybody to know that a high school kid was working at school, but yet they gave me like one of those shiny, flashy 80s type of radio jackets with my name on it and the call letters and I did J at all the high school functions and things. So everybody knew.  06:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Can I ask what name they gave you? I was Jumping.  06:23 - Jim Fronk (Guest) Jim Jacobs.  06:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All right, Jumping Jim. This just came to me. Jumping Jim.  06:27 - Jim Fronk (Guest) Jacobs, 935-3378, wlhg. Wow, larry Habar Enterprises. I love it. Larry lives two towns away from me right now. We had lunch about a month ago. The owner of the station.  06:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now explain to me. So you just were fascinated. Did you listen to the radio all the time? I loved radio. And then you were just mimicking all the DJs because the DJs got all the chicks. Apparently that's what it was back in the 80s anyways.  06:51 - Jim Fronk (Guest) Yeah, have you heard of Dale Dorman? He's a Boston guy from KISS, but Dale Dorman and one other guy I forget his name, but they invented top 40 radio. They were at a bar one night and they watched people put quarters in to hear the same 15, 20 songs all night long Sure.  07:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That makes sense, so they made that format.  07:07 - Jim Fronk (Guest) And Dale Dorman was also on the local TV station as hey, kiddies, that after school type of thing, and I just loved the guy and I just wanted to be him, I wanted to do what he did and I just set focus on it and I ended up doing it. I met Dale Dorman. The program director of the small station I worked for was the assistant PD of KISS 108 Boston and that's where Dale Dorman was, and she brought us in for a program meeting and God, my mind was just blown at that point and I said this is what I need to do. Got out of high school, I went to college for it, went to school for it, interned, did many, many years, and it was like here.  07:43 I am learning from these people that I think are phenomenal but, they're teaching because they can't make ends meet. So I got out of radio for about 10 years 15 years, and I did stand up comedy and I always talked about getting on the air again, because if I'm doing morning radio, I can't hear them not laughing when. I tell jokes, I just play a soundtrack. So I turned 35 and I said, you know, what Everybody laughs then yeah, exactly.  08:08 I turned 35 and said I have to do this, so I just put everything else aside and I did it.  08:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now let me ask you, because you said most of the people couldn't afford working in radio, so they were teachers. Is that always been the case in radio? Is it always been? Maybe not the best paying gig, but the people in radio love radio. I mean, it's just.  08:27 - Jim Fronk (Guest) It's like being in an abusive relationship. It really is.  08:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It slaps you around and I'll tell you. It's like podcasting I'm gonna say because for me, I'm gonna tell you that podcasting is my radio show. In a way it really is.  08:41 - Jim Fronk (Guest) The only difference is I was waking up at 2.30 quarter of 3 every morning to get my butt whipped every day.  08:46 - Intro (Other) But yeah, it's definitely a passion.  08:48 - Jim Fronk (Guest) You hear that word passion with VO. It's the same thing with radio. It was just something that I needed to do. I needed to have that live interaction and as far as the money goes, it's kind of like VO.  08:58 - Intro (Other) It depends what market that you're being planned in.  09:01 - Jim Fronk (Guest) I was doing mornings in Nashua, new Hampshire, which is about 30 miles away from Boston, as the crow flies, about a 40 minute trip. My salary compared to somebody doing the exact same thing on the exact same type of station, they probably were about five or six times more than I was making Just the average guy. Now if you became a star then you're up in the quarter of a million dollars in Boston market but not in Nashua. But I loved it and you got the perks I mean I'd go to concerts, I'd be backstage, at concerts.  09:30 My favorite thing was going on stage and throwing t-shirts out at people and saying, hey, I'm frog from Frank 106 or from 104.9 the Hawk, and people scream and they know me and I just love that. I really love that.  09:43 Just being a part of the community. I was very fortunate that the morning show I did for 106, 3 Frank FM I was part of the community. I would announce football games. My daughter did cheerleading but I would announce the popcorn of football games and I would go and people would know who I was. But I was very active in the community and I'd love that. I love being known.  10:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You were like a local celebrity.  10:03 - Jim Fronk (Guest) Yeah, but I was able to take that celebrityism and put it to good work as opposed to evil Like I did back in the 90s. Oh sorry.  10:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And that's another podcast.  10:14 - Jim Fronk (Guest) Yeah, I don't think the ever straining owners are up yet for that one, so we really can't talk about it.  10:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, now 20 years in radio, 20 years 20 plus, yeah Now did you say you were doing synonyms, that you were doing radio, and then you went into comedy, or how did that work?  10:28 - Jim Fronk (Guest) I was doing comedy. First I was a wedding DJ, function DJ, when karaoke was all the buzz. I got my own karaoke company. I had like 35 shows.  10:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Look at you being a boss entrepreneur at a young age. I mean bosses, and why you to listen to this? All of the people that come on the show, I mean they're entrepreneurs in so many ways, and that was so creative. I mean, jim, first of all, just being in high school right, and going after your dreams and having the bravery to go try out for the radio station and get the gig right At such a young age. And then you've got to be brave. Did you stand up comedy? That's for sure.  11:03 - Jim Fronk (Guest) You know stand up comedy. Five minutes can seem like 20 minutes. Yes, 20 minutes can seem like five minutes. It all depends on the energy of the crowd. But I tell you that first time I got up on stage, the very first time I was hosting a pretty big deal. It was at Berkeley, 5,000 seats. I was hosting it Not really hosting telling jokes, just kind of introducing people.  11:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But I had a couple of jokes. I'm seeing kind of, yeah, I had a couple of jokes.  11:26 - Jim Fronk (Guest) That first joke I told, and when they laughed, that wave that hit me, that became my drug.  11:33 - Intro (Other) That became what I craved.  11:35 - Jim Fronk (Guest) That became what I had to accomplish on a Monday night up in Vermont for a slice of pizza, or a Tuesday doing an open mic night at the KFC in Volrica Mass. I mean, it's just, you did what you had to do, but it was again a passion for it.  11:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now okay. So, passion aside, I'm sure there were some jokes that probably didn't make it, and so did you experience like imposter syndrome. I mean I can only imagine Like I think stand up comedy's got to be one of the hardest skills. I mean it's like improv too. I feel like we all need it and it just really builds our character, because there's just so many things we have to be quick on our feet about. I'm sure that all of this is leading up to a really fabulous career in voiceover, because all of those skills have led up to who you are as an actor today.  12:21 - Jim Fronk (Guest) And as far as jokes bombing, I'm looking for a reaction. You can oh or boo or yeah. Hey, I got a reaction, and if something just didn't work, I really didn't care you laughed at it.  12:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh well, that didn't work.  12:32 - Jim Fronk (Guest) Pretty much, yeah, I mean sometimes I'd make a joke about it and take a paper out of my pocket and say our fake paper and say okay, scratch that one off the list.  12:40 Yeah, that didn't work, whatever, yeah, okay, that doesn't work in Poughkeepsie, all right, fine. But yes, everything I've done coming up to this has helped me in VO. You know, the radio, yeah, has contributed the live stuff, the comedy, the improv and all that. I got out of radio back in 2018 because it was just impersonal to me. I wasn't doing mornings, I wasn't doing a talk show. I craved that interaction. I didn't like just talking up 15 seconds of a song coming out, absolutely. I mean, I'm great at trivia, music trivia. You know, you give me 10 seconds of any song from 1960 to 1992 and I can probably tell you what it is, but it just wasn't fulfilling. It wasn't satisfying. I did get into flying drones for a bit believe it or not, a friend of mine, that's random, it really is, but it was a passion, I flew a drone.  13:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Radio VO drones.  13:29 - Jim Fronk (Guest) Yeah, well, I flew the drones and I loved it. I got a passion for it. I was making some great money doing cell tower inspections and infrared. At one point I had more money invested in drones than I did in Harley-Davidson's.  13:42 Or in your microphone maybe, or in my microphones. I'm even close. I'm completely. You know how many U87s Like. I sold one of my drones in two cameras and I bought my daughter a brand new Jeep. They were up there but it just wasn't what I wanted to do. I wanted to be behind the microphone. Okay, and a buddy of mine, AJ Duquette Actually I think you were on the show, a buddy of mine, aj Duquette, a radio guy. He's doing VO, and he told me about J Michael Collins and I was driving home year ago, april. I was driving home from New York City on Clubhouse and I think you were on it, j Michael, and I want to say Liz Atherton.  14:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, we've done yeah, we've done a bunch of yeah. And I asked the question.  14:21 - Jim Fronk (Guest) I just got my demos back and I was like, well, how do I know if I have a good demo? Yeah, and J Michael we talked afterwards and he went over it and gave me the good, the bad and the ugly and that just got me on the path of okay. So I'm going to talk to these people. I'm not going to be afraid to approach anybody. I'm very approachable and I'm going to approach as many people in this business that are where I want to be and it's been great. And that's my advice to everybody Don't be afraid to approach anybody, because if somebody's not approachable to you or if somebody doesn't want you to approach them, you don't want them in your circle. Why would you want them in your circle? You know, I like going to Dallas and seeing Ann Ganguza from down the hall and going Ann, and she's like jam. I mean, that's what it's all about Making connections, having some fun.  15:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's all about the relationships, really Absolutely about the relationships. So let's kind of continue on with the voice acting. So you got into voice acting around. You're saying around 2018?.  15:21 - Jim Fronk (Guest) Oh, no, no, no, I got into drones in 2018. Oh okay, excuse me, I actually celebrated two years in VO from when I started in September this past September. So it's been about two years, a month or two, but I got into it. I got some training. I did about five or six months with the training with a great coach, tim Powers, you've met.  15:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Tim, actually I know Tim absolutely.  15:40 - Jim Fronk (Guest) Tim has become a great mentor and even a better friend. But from there I got my demos and, like I said, how do I know they're good? And I just started doing the marketing thing. I've since redone my demos. I'm a different animal now, different everything. I kind of went feet first and I thank my wife so much for that. We talk about not making money in radio.  16:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We all know the struggles that actors have, and we are actors Not making money in voiceover.  16:06 - Jim Fronk (Guest) Yeah, I mean just acting alone.  16:08 God bless my wife. She's very successful in the pharmaceutical business. So when the time came, we sat down and talked and she said, when we first met, I was making $5,000 a year less than you and you were in radio. And I'm like I know, but we have flipped the switch. She's gone so far. So she said do what you want to do. Invest what you need to invest. Get the right equipment. You know what you need. You've been in the business. You can build radio stations. Get what you need. So I did. And here I am two years later and I'm getting clients, I'm booking gigs, I'm doing animation, video games, e-learning. It's been great.  16:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) What would you say your favorite genre to work in is Because I'm always a big proponent of people bring their experience to behind the mic and I feel like maybe your stand-up comedy, your DJing, your networking I feel like that all works for you in specific genres Well, animation, I love.  17:01 - Jim Fronk (Guest) I love playing in animation. Right now I've got the allergies going on so my voice is kind of right now, but I love being able to just pop into a character and be like my mind is now melted, I'm with 3.0 and I will reveal the world. I mean, just have some fun. Word, of course I will. I am the evil. I am Ludo the evil one. I just love having fun with that. Video games I love the acting.  17:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love the cinematography and the acting.  17:26 - Jim Fronk (Guest) I trained with Dave.  17:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Fornoy yes he's amazing.  17:29 - Jim Fronk (Guest) Yes, and once again people say how'd you train with Dave Fornoy? Yeah, I asked, I asked, I went to his website and I booked some sessions. And there we are. Dave's a great friend now, I mean he's become such a great mentor.  17:43 So I love video games. You know what I really love doing and I hate to say it because I have spent, I'm gonna say, $10,000 in training, maybe over the past couple of years, maybe even more. I hate to look at the numbers, but to beat the DJ out of me Every time that I step back into that DJ voice, my coach would say and now up here's the dealbies, just to snap me back. But I love doing tier three automotive.  18:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, yeah, tier three, automotive, yeah, and tier of DJ, it's radio DJ delivery.  18:07 - Jim Fronk (Guest) It's what I do in my sleep, so I'm really loving doing that. Absolutely. I've been training with Chris Zellman. He's been great.  18:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, tier three, automotive. I do a little bit of that myself, and it's not as easy as we want it to be, because they're really trying to cram a lot of words.  18:22 - Jim Fronk (Guest) But I was also production director of a six station cluster for many years. I was given the commercials away, so you know, so I know, and most of those were that type of delivery, yeah absolutely that sales delivery that hype. You know, no money down and you can. You know it's. Which is so 80s DJ. It's just ingrained in me so I do love that.  18:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And so now we all have to be authentic, and maybe not for tier three auto still. However, talk to me about authenticity and how. Maybe your background having a radio show I feel like having a radio show, you know, maybe not by just announcing commercials or announcing what the next song is, but I think if you're doing like talk radio and you're really getting down in personal with your listeners, I feel like that helps you to be authentic and you can kind of call upon that experience to really help you be authentic in your commercial delivery or even narration delivery or e-learning delivery.  19:16 - Jim Fronk (Guest) Before I was doing morning radio it was just that hype. Morning radio was kind of hype but it was a lot more comedy. We did bits. It was always like Frank's place with Jim and so-and-so or you know the Jim and so-and-so morning show. So it was always my animal to drive my vehicle and just to have that interaction was very conversational. And I did talk radio for the last three or four years of my career with radio and that became very conversational. That's just raw me. So when I was able to unlock that again, because we all know talking conversational and just talking like we're talking now is natural.  19:54 You should be able to do that. It's easy. Yeah, it's easy.  19:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But it's not easy when there's a piece of paper.  19:59 - Jim Fronk (Guest) Yeah, when it's a piece of paper in front of you and it's somebody else's words. You have to learn how to do that Absolutely. One of the things that helped and hindered me was my ability for live read. I love being the first guy in workshops. I love reading stuff cold. I can't tell you how many times I'd be on the air and somebody would give me a piece of paper and say, read this.  20:18 And I have the ability to read about five or six seconds ahead of what I'm saying, which was good for that, but I was disconnected from my words. I was on autopilot.  20:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Any cold read is you're executing from left to right and you don't know what the story is.  20:33 - Jim Fronk (Guest) But even after I read it once or twice, I would still be reading ahead which hindered me to get that connectivity with the listener, with the client, with the audience. So when I learned to put that behind me and I'm gonna say live in the moment but read in the moment, be in the moment, my conversational game went up considerably and I think that I have a very conversational read when it is asked for that.  20:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) No sales, no announcers. That's right, no announcers. And that's getting the DJ and getting the radio beaten out of you.  21:05 - Jim Fronk (Guest) Yeah, but then I get to go back to tier three and have some fun with it. Yeah, and have your fun. Then, exactly, come on down. The price is really.  21:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I have roles in telephony that I can be as. Thank you for calling your call's important to us. I can be that fun, smooth, promo-y sound.  21:22 - Jim Fronk (Guest) That's a lot of fun, sometimes absolutely.  21:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, for the most part, we're all about the authenticity. Speaking of authenticity, from a few of the things that you've already talked about, you were so into drones, you were into, like, video games I get this feeling, and from talking to you previously, that you are kind of a geek. You are a tech geek, and so that kind of leads you into yet another talent of yours, which is websites, and I wanna make sure that we have time to get into websites for voice actors and talk to us a little bit about your expertise number one and what got you into web development first of all. Then let's talk about what's important in a voice actor website.  22:02 - Jim Fronk (Guest) Well, for the most part with the radio stations. You wear many hats and I was brand manager and web guru and graphic artist. I know enough about Photoshop to get you and I in a lot of trouble, but not enough to really make any money at it. As far as-.  22:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Except nobody uses Photoshop anymore. It's all Canva, Both yes. But yeah, no, I get it Photoshop was definitely a skill, I mean for sure, and when I was deciding.  22:26 - Jim Fronk (Guest) When I was getting out of the drones, I was actually going back and forth between VO and maybe going to school for graphic arts.  22:33 I really enjoy that. But I was thinking to myself you know, it's a three-year program, $36,000. I'll be 58 when I graduate. Do I really want to enter that type of field where I'm so far behind technology wise than the kids are these days? I said, you know, my happy place is behind the microphone. So that's what I did. Gotcha, every business that I've had, I've designed my own websites. I've used Wix my whole life. So when I say I'm a website builder, I'm a Wix master, is what I go by. There's just so much that's come along with website development. It's actually very user-friendly, but people need to be taught how to use it.  23:10 - Intro (Other) So when you say I'm a website developer.  23:12 - Jim Fronk (Guest) I'm more of a website instructor.  23:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) What.  23:15 - Jim Fronk (Guest) I like to do is I have something. It's a three-hour website. Do it yourself, learn by doing creation class, where we'll sit down together, you'll watch me on the screen and you'll mimic what I'm doing. I'll show you where I'm getting things. I'll teach you how to do things. So by the end of the three hours you should have a one-page voiceover specific website ready to go, ready to be hosted, and I'll go in there afterwards, because I'm always like an admin and I'll go in and I'll tighten things up and I'll put a little couple extra spinny effects and different things to make them happy. But I found that so many people didn't have the crucial items for a website, for a VO website and other people are charging 15, 16, $1,700 to build a website.  24:01 We're in a business. We're not making any money, but you have to have your online you know.  24:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) so Sure, absolutely, that's who you're marketing to.  24:07 - Jim Fronk (Guest) Exactly so. I try to help people learn how to do that so that they don't come back to me and say, hey, can you upload my new demos? No, they're gonna know how to upload their own demos. If they have a problem, I'm always here. I will build a website for somebody. It's twice the money, and when I'm done, if you need help, there'll be an hourly stipend to be your web guy.  24:30 I'd rather give you something that's cheaper, that takes me more time, but to teach you something. So that's what I'm doing. You can find that at websitesforvocom. It's very easy. I've designed other sites and gotten really deep, like Dave Fanoy, for instance. Dave has become a great friend, but his website was terrible no downloadable demos granted, he's Dave Fanoy, but still links that went to things that were expired event page that the latest event was 2019, it just wasn't conducive for somebody that's in the business. So I kind of owed him a favor. Dave became a really good friend. He helped me out. We started off by coaching. He helped me out directing my demo. He's helped me out with a lot of coaching. That was unexpected. So instead of sending him a bottle, what's a friend of mine said? Just send him a bottle and say thank you. I decided to a deep dive into his website and I completely revamped it. On Wix all of his scheduling You're a Wix person, I am a Wix person.  25:26 - Intro (Other) I've seen your schedule.  25:28 - Jim Fronk (Guest) I see, don't you love how it's all in the back?  25:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) door there. I love my Wix website your scheduling your payments, your tickets your events everything.  25:35 - Jim Fronk (Guest) So, Dave being a techie guy, a web guy, when I went to book my first gig with Dave it took me about 20 minutes to figure out and it was like email me.  25:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There are some coaches out there that like well, email me for pricing or email me to get set up, and that to me is like why would you do that?  25:51 - Jim Fronk (Guest) Go to Venmo and do this here, and then I'll send you my Calendly link.  25:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, exactly.  25:56 - Jim Fronk (Guest) So I went in, I took care of Dave's and I taught him how to do it. He's now putting on his own events and he's doing all the ticketing and all the ticket sales and all the marketing, all the social marketing, all in the back door of Wix. So I taught him that. I try to teach everybody that, because there are things you need of your website.  26:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, what are those things? Let's talk about those critical things.  26:16 - Jim Fronk (Guest) Number one downloadable demos Above the fold. Everything I'm talking about right now is above the fold. I've talked to a lot of agents, casting directors. They don't want to click, they don't want to scroll.  26:29 They don't want to look so right there, front and center, downloadable demos, ready to go. Your name, obviously, something that shows your personality. It's a logo, a picture, something that shows who you are and if we have some fun with it, have some fun with it. Your contact info should always be in the header so when they scroll, if they scroll, your contact info is always there.  26:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It stays there it stays there.  26:54 - Jim Fronk (Guest) One of the main things that a lot of people don't have is a call to action button. Okay, I'm on your website, I'm the customer. Look at your website as a customer. I'm a customer, I found your website. I like your demos. What do I do? Now? There's a button there that says request a free audition. What's that all about? I mean, you and I, we all know auditions are free, of course. Well, all audition. You know we're not paying to audition. We're not getting paid to audition, but they don't know that.  27:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, sometimes we do, sometimes we do, but they don't know that.  27:23 - Jim Fronk (Guest) But they're getting a complimentary free audition. Send me a 30-second snippet of your script and I'll send you back an audio sample of what it will sound like, performed by me, and I can't tell you six. I've gotten six jobs off of that, so far.  27:39 Contact me is not a call to action. Maybe you offer some other service. I think it was Mark Scott said something about. These are six ways to book me. You know, give them something, something that has some information, whether it's directly related to booking you or VO related, but have that call to action button. Those are the basic things. Everything else after that is fluff. You go to my website. I probably have 15, 16 pages.  28:05 - Intro (Other) I have some people actually write the SEO for me.  28:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's all fluff. It really is. There's nothing there. Let's talk about SEO.  28:12 - Jim Fronk (Guest) It's for SEO. What about SEO lately?  28:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Is SEO worth anything at this point? Still, because of, let's say, generative AI, which is generating content in seconds. Now, all of a sudden, it used to mean something with our websites. Right, that we had identifying words and words that could be found, but I feel like that whole SEO pony might be changing a little bit as things start to evolve.  28:35 - Jim Fronk (Guest) It is changing, it's getting simpler for people.  28:38 - Intro (Other) And with a program like Wix.  28:39 - Jim Fronk (Guest) They actually have an SEO and, by the way, I don't get paid by Wix. I'm not endorsed by Wix, it's just what I know. I've tried Squarespace play buttons, a play button, rewinds, rewind, pictures, picture, but I just didn't like how the whole system worked together. Wix was very user friendly. If you can do Canva, you can create a website.  29:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Canva changed the game.  29:01 - Jim Fronk (Guest) They really did. They made it.  29:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wix is changing the game and some people might say well, what in VO is changing the game? I mean, we could talk about that if we wanted to.  29:11 - Jim Fronk (Guest) How about that? So much in VO has changed the game.  29:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Tell me about a VO actor. How can they change the game to make it successfully in voiceover and what can they do to change their game to make it and not be so afraid of all this technology that people are just, oh my God, the robots are gonna take our jobs away. Let's talk about-.  29:30 - Jim Fronk (Guest) No, they're not. The robots can't act, the robots can't change. What can we do there?  29:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) you go. We need to act right. They can't improv, they can't crack a good joke. Well, sometimes they crack dad jokes.  29:40 - Jim Fronk (Guest) Yeah, well.  29:41 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But yeah.  29:43 - Jim Fronk (Guest) All right, so I got a lot of my dad jokes from chat. No, I'm just kidding.  29:46 What you can do is be authentic. Be human, show your range, show your emotion when you show up for a gig. Be the person that they wanna work with. Don't be the person that they're waiting on. Be fun, be happy. Don't be a nuisance to anybody that is hiring you or that you're working with, because you never know who's going to say, hey, Jim was here two months ago, He'd be great for this spot. You know, it could be the engineer you never know.  30:11 You have to have your online inline, which I try to help people do, because your website may not generate any business for you right off the bat, but you have to have that presence.  30:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, you absolutely have. It has to be something that's not wixitecom.  30:24 - Jim Fronk (Guest) Backslash, jimfrong55, it has to be Jimfrongcom. Jimfrongvocom, your name vocom. Sure and keep it simple. Keep those domain names simple so you're easily found Exactly.  30:36 I was gonna be Frank the voice. I had all these domain names that I was going to do. Jimfrong was available for the first time in a long time, cause I looked for it back when I was doing standup comedy. Jimfrong was available and I said you know what that's it? That's it. So I'm Jim and Jimfrong, so it's so easy to remember. You're double branding your name Absolutely. And as far as changing the game, talk to people, make friends, go to conferences. A lot of people in this business are introverts, but a lot are extroverts. You know, you get your naked gents, your Anganguza's, you get your Jim Fronks. We're out there saying hi to people. You know, kissing babies, shaking hands, whatever the case is. Get out there and say hi to people and if you're not that type of person, find someone that is, find me, make friends with me. I'm very approachable. You hate me or love me, but hopefully you love me and I'll introduce you to people, I don't care.  31:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There you go, it's absolutely fun. Words of wisdom. Jim, Thank you for that. And actually, Jim, you have offered the bosses a little deal for your website creation class that you have.  31:40 - Jim Fronk (Guest) Oh, I have.  31:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, you have. Remember you wrote it down.  31:43 - Jim Fronk (Guest) Well, I was kind of upset about the PNNM's not being made.  31:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But you're going to give our bosses 10% off the website creation class.  31:50 - Jim Fronk (Guest) I am absolutely without a doubt. What kind of coupon do you want to get?  31:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We've got that promo called, called VEOBOSS10 at Chicago VEOBOSS10,. Okay, and we'll be putting that on our show notes pages, guys, so when you look up this episode, we will have that code available. Jim, thank you so much. It's been so exciting talking to you. I mean, you have such an amazing history. Yeah, I mean we're actually kind of 10 minutes over. See how time flies when you just have so much fun.  32:15 - Intro (Other) We're going to have to have you come back.  32:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We're going to have to have you come back, jim. It's really been amazing and thank you for sharing your wisdom, your wonderful personality, your fun, amazing, just the fun. Amazing who you are.  32:28 - Intro (Other) Jim Fong with us.  32:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes bosses, I want you to take a moment and imagine a world full of passionate, empowered, diverse individuals that are giving collectively and intentionally to create the world that they want to see. You can make a difference. Visit 100voiceswhocareorg to learn more. And a big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can network and connect like bosses like Jim and myself, just like Jim has been talking about all episode. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Jim, thanks again. You've been amazing Bosses, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week.  33:05 - Jim Fronk (Guest) Bye, guys, bye, thanks Ann.  33:07 - Intro (Other) Thank you so much Thank you Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Ann Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to Coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Get ready to unravel the intricate world of awards in business! We promise, you'll walk away with a fresh perspective on the role and impact of awards in business - the good, the bad, and the downright stressful. We kick off our lively discussion by peeling back the glitzy curtain to expose the challenges and rewards of organizing an awards ceremony. From the high stakes of selecting winners to the joyous recognition of one's hard work, it's a rollercoaster journey. We open up about our own awards experiences and how it can often feel like a numbers game. Plus, we'll delve into the emotional side too, sharing some insights on how to handle not winning or being nominated, and why it's important to savor any recognition you do receive. 0:00:01 - Announcer It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VEO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Ann Ganguzza.  0:00:20 - Anne Hey everyone, welcome to the VEO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am here with the lovely Lau Lapides. Hey everyone. Hey Lau.  0:00:31 - Lau Hey, beautiful, beautiful, right back at ya.  0:00:34 - Anne How are you today?  0:00:36 - Lau Oh, I'm fabulous. I feel like this is going to be a very rewarding show, or maybe a rewarding show oh oh hey. See what I did.  0:00:45 - Anne I see what you did there. It's funny Lau. We just attended an award ceremony and there's a lot of different opinions out there on do we like awards, do we not like awards? Maybe we should have a talk about that Lau. What do you think I?  0:00:58 - Lau love it. I haven't heard anyone really talk about discussing awards like the process, not just the winning of the award, but also like what goes into the entire process. It's really a huge thing. Sometimes takes six months or a year to prep that kind of thing. Yeah.  0:01:16 - Anne Well, I will tell you that. First of all, I guess bosses out there we want to hear how you feel about awards too. I mean, there's so much discussion happening out there, oh gosh, on the Facebook groups and in social media about awards, and are they worth it? Because some awards cost money to enter, some awards don't. In our industry right now, I know of two distinct award shows that go on. However, they are not the only awards that you can certainly enter if you feel the desire to do that.  Lau. I have been a supporter of award shows since the beginning. However, there are many pros and there are many cons to it. Pros is that if you win an award, it's validation. Sometimes it's so difficult to be validated while we sit here in our studios all by ourselves and we don't get a lot of feedback all the time. Gosh, I'm always telling my corporate students we just want to be loved. When you work for a company and you feel underappreciated, I mean, gosh, that's really all we long for is to be loved. I think awards can be a verification of that. But then again, sometimes they may not be, because maybe you didn't win, and then that enters in a whole new mental aspect of. Oh my gosh, I wasn't good enough to win this award. Why did I not win this award? Somebody else is better than me. What are your thoughts about that Lau?  0:02:42 - Lau I think that when you go into this kind of a process, if you're entering into it and really submitting yourself for it intentionally, you have to set your mindset and your psychology to the fact that it is competitive. It is a competition. You may or may not feel like it is, but it really is. It should be based on merit. It should be based on your progress, your process and your product. And sometimes we only have so much control over that right. We manage it. We only have so much control right, that's the big thing.  0:03:16 - Anne And I just said it should be based on merit, and, right there, we could probably spend an entire podcast talking about that. It should be based on merit. However, there is the other side of the coin where, yes, it should be based on merit, but then you have the people who judge the awards right, and we don't always know, first of all, who those people are. Sometimes we do. I'm not a big fan of knowing who judges are. I feel like maybe there's too much possibility for people to maybe try to talk to the judges and influence them, so I'd rather not have judges be known. And then you have to really think about what are the judges qualifications? Because within voice over, we have so many different categories right, and so many different categories of awards.  If you're going to, I would say, present these categories of awards, I think you want to have very vetted judges right Judging the entries. And I am not sure, since we don't know who the judges are all the time, or even if we do know who the judges are, what is the criteria for me, a demo award versus a performance award, and in all different genres, I think it's super important that the people judging those are very specialized in those genres or in that category. So if you're judging animation, I would hope that judges are all experienced either working in animation or doing animation day in, day out and they really know the industry, and so I really would hope that that's the case. I don't know Lau if that's the case with all the judges, because, again, we don't always know who the judges are and we don't know what their credentials are.  0:04:50 - Lau Right, and I can say just from my personal point of view that it's not always the case.  Because at times I've been asked to judge categories which I feel like I can judge them. I can judge them, but am I way off base? No, I don't think so. I think there's a general industry knowledge that you have for years in the industry, but is it my absolute forte? No, not always it's not my forte. We try to get that matching process, but sometimes it's a numbers game, just like the competitors. It's like do we have enough judges? Do we have enough judges in a particular category? Are we getting them in time? Can they get the work done?  0:05:24 - Anne That's right in time, and that's the other thing. I mean, my goodness, judging some of these awards, because I have been a judge myself. First of all, when there's a lot of categories and a lot of entries, who, it becomes like a casting process and right then, and there bosses. I want that to tell you one thing. That means that sometimes right and I'm not going to speak for myself, but sometimes if you've asked a busy person to be a judge and then they have to listen to a thousand entries, they're probably only going to get the first part of your entry listened to before they have to continue on.  So that is something to consider. I mean, if there's a nuance or an acting moment that is at the end of your performance, maybe you want to try to create that clip so that all that great stuff is right at the beginning, because it is a job. It can be a lengthy and timely job, and if judges are not given an appropriate amount of time to do that, or they don't have a lot of time to do that, and they think like, yeah, I can judge that, and then all of a sudden it becomes overwhelming, well, then you get, the judging process becomes a little skewed to be quite honest because either I don't have time or I've heard too many entries.  I'm now overwhelmed. But yeah, there's so many things that go into it, my goodness. And then are the entries anonymous. We hope they are right, because we don't want the judges to be influenced by names or celebrity or that type of thing. But our voice is our product, right? So sometimes I'll tell you what it's hard to hide, because I know a lot of voices out there and I can pick them out like this I would agree.  0:07:01 - Lau And you know this last time, one of the last ones, you and I judged we were under an NDA, which I actually really appreciated I did too Right. It took a lot of stress, because not that I would be necessarily blabbing about that, I wouldn't but it reminded my brain like, separate it, compartmentalize it, because you and I we were a lot of hats, you know casting an agent and coach, and this and that, and so there is sometimes that one or two talent that we know. We do know them, and then could we recuse ourselves?  Sometimes we can sometimes we can't, because they can't move us into another category. So it's great to have that compartmentalization and that relaxation to know, okay, if there is someone in front of me that I know that's a client or a client of a friend of mine, that I am separating that from this hat, that I'm wearing, and then I'm not going to talk about that. I'm not going to speak about that and I have.  I wonder what you think about this. And I had mixed feelings. I have mixed feelings about the awards being given and then the judge's names coming out. It sort of makes me feel like a jury that all of a sudden is being. You hear the names of the jury who's on a criminal case. It makes me feel uncomfortable. It's like why do I need to know that information? What do you think about that?  0:08:21 - Anne That's very interesting and I appreciate that you brought that up because, as I mentioned, I always have been a fan of keeping anonymous I mean for the longest time and this isn't anything that's being judged. For example, I have done the VO Peeps scholarships for gosh 12 years already and when we judge those entries I don't disclose the names of the judges and I don't even disclose the names of the judges after the fact. Because again, what if I want to use those judges, maybe again, and I don't want to have anybody influenced and I don't want the judges, I feel like I don't need credit If I'm a judge. I don't need credit in being a judge. I just want to be able to judge fairly. And I happen to agree with you.  I don't think that judges' names should ever be disclosed really, and I'm not quite sure why the reason is and it might just be that they want to be thanked properly, but it's like when I give a donation, I don't always have to put my name on that. You know it can be an anonymous donation because I did it out of the goodness of my heart. If I'm judging something, I want it to just be the most fair that it can possibly be.  0:09:24 - Lau I'm glad you brought that up, Because when I see that at a ceremony someone who's kind enough to give money towards a scholarship or towards an award. I kind of feel bad for them Because I'm like as much as you are. Oh aren't they wonderful. They don't always want that recognition. They don't always feel comfortable knowing that. It's well-known knowledge that anyone who wins a lottery like they have to be very careful about releasing their name, because then they become a target and people go after them.  So you have to wonder if you're in an award ceremony, could you then become some sort of target that people are either trying to embellish themselves?  0:10:01 - Anne to you or they're trying to knock you down, similar to being an agent Lau. I'm just saying I know nothing about that.  0:10:09 - Lau It's so true.  0:10:10 - Anne It's like they're prostrate themselves to you day and night right.  0:10:13 - Lau I'm not one to really appreciate that. Honestly, I'm very private in that way. Like, if I'm going to give a bunch of money, I'd rather it not have my name in there. But that's just me. Other people do want that recognition. That's fine. That's totally fine.  0:10:28 - Anne I'm going to say I'm not here to shame anybody saying if you put your name on a donation that it's shameful.  I just think there are times when I don't think it's necessary and sometimes, yeah, I mean I'll put my name on a donation if I can add a note to it, to the recipient in wishing them good will, that kind of a thing, and that will be a reason for that.  But I think La one thing I want to really make a point of about awards is when you enter awards. Having experienced both sides of it being a judge and then also entering into awards myself I think you just have to really be made of Teflon number one, because the process is very subjective, right, and we're starting to kind of address all the things that go into the awards submitting and then the judging process and if you know who the judges are, are they qualified and that process. But I think one thing I want to stress to the bosses out there is please do not ever belittle yourself If you do not win an award or if you don't get nominated for an award. I think that, especially in our business, because it's very much a personal part of us, it's our voice, right, it is so personal and if you ever don't feel as though we've succeeded, it can be really, really damaging to our psyche.  0:11:44 - Lau I would agree, I would agree. Do not give a ton of weight to that process. And it's very funny, it's almost like auditioning.  It's like don't give a ton of weight to anyone audition brush it off and leave and go on to the next thing. But yet, when you're actually auditioning, give it the 100% it deserves, completely, commit to it completely, invest in it, completely, appreciate it. So, if you're awarded something or nominated, completely be present, be appreciative, love the moments, enjoy your community, love the attention. But then when you walk away, I really do believe you have the award. You're not going to forget about the award, you're going to utilize it as well in your marketing.  0:12:23 - Anne Oh, absolutely, but don't hang your hat on it. That's another positive.  0:12:27 - Lau Absolutely, don't hang your hat on it Like I'm the best, I'm the expert, I'm finished. No, it's a recognition that your work is at an industry standard that people want to appreciate, but there's a lot more to go.  0:12:40 - Anne Absolutely, absolutely. And I think that it's wonderful to get an award and it's wonderful to get nominated. I mean, if I want to make a distinction between being nominated and winning an award, I feel that the nomination is an award in and of itself because, listen to this award nominated, award winning, I mean honestly, they still start with award and so if you're going to use that to market, I mean gosh, just to be like sometimes narrowed down and be put on the shortlist, you can be proud of that to be nominated, and I really, really do believe that that can be celebrated as a win. And again, even if you're not nominated, understand that your work has value, you have worth, you have value and just because you didn't get the nomination or get a win doesn't mean that you are any less of a professional or accomplished and successful individual. I agree totally agree.  0:13:30 - Lau I'd love to talk, too, about the length of awards ceremonies. I think that that is either thought about or it's not thought about, maybe it's thought about, maybe it's not thought about, but they could run three, four hours in length, sometimes Absolutely, and I wonder how the audience feels about going through that kind of process and sitting through that process. We did an awards not long ago, you and I, where we literally sat in a chair for three hours.  There was no break. There was no moment to take a breath, walk around, nothing, and I thought that that was a very strange choice on the part of the organizers to keep people in a seat for that length of time and expect that focus to really stay there and be there late at night. What do you think about that?  0:14:20 - Anne I'm just thinking about all the awards ceremonies that we've become accustomed to on television. If you watch the Emmys or the Golden Globes, and there's always either food or drink at the table. Number one that helps If you're going to have to be planted or seated in an audience. I think that that works. And what if you have to leave to use the restroom right?  And then they announce your award. Hopefully you want to have like a series of events and when are they going to announce this category? I happen to know a very good friend of mine who was caught in the bathroom when they won and, yeah, it was not able to come to the stage and give their acceptance speech. But I think that sometimes sitting through the awards ceremony can be laborious if there's not any kind of entertainment kind of interspersed in there and or some sort of a schedule of events. And I know that that's difficult and sometimes they want to keep it a surprise for the people, they want to keep people in their seats. But yeah, it can get tiring. I will say that my tushy got a little bit sore and I've been to longer ones Okay, I have been to longer ones than the one that you and I were at, which we're really excruciating just because of the length and not all categories were called up to the stage.  0:15:30 - Lau So no, no, they need to sell cushions like they do it at the stadiums.  0:15:34 - Lau Buy a cushion.  0:15:36 - Lau you have to sit on the cushion and that would make a lot of sense, though I did think of a shortcut because I'm an organizer myself events, and one of the shortcuts I don't think anyone would ever do, but I think makes total sense. There were a handful of people at a few of the ceremonies that you and I intended that one more than one award One in particular. I can remember he won three. Okay, lovely, good for him. Why did they spread that out and why did he need to come up three times, have three spills in which he ran out of things to say? He was telling jokes by the end of it. Why not house those categories One, two, three. They have a sense. Maybe he's gonna win, maybe.  0:16:16 - Lau I don't know I mean they're preparing?  0:16:18 - Anne No, I don't know who's preparing the envelopes, remember they?  0:16:20 - Lau well, yeah, they're preparing the envelopes.  0:16:22 - Anne It's under lock and key right. So nobody knows. So that's theoretically. Somebody knows.  0:16:27 - Lau That's theoretically. Somebody knows Theoretically?  0:16:28 - Anne somebody knows. But again, but then I don't think Lau you'd want the audience to expect right that the next category he would be the winner as well. So there'd be no right. No, but if you think about it that way, right, if they know he won in multiple categories and then they called the second category once they did a series of right, the audience would expect it so. I don't think you can do it that way, and I think he handled it well.  0:16:50 - Lau Personally, listen, I think theoretically, it's true, but you and I know most of the audience was dying to get out and get a hamburger. You know what I mean. Like if I could get some french fries and cut this a little bit shorter, I'm all over the nuggets. You know what I mean. Like I'm ready to go. I don't need it to be that extra hour.  0:17:07 - Anne Well, I think that it could be maybe addressed at the amount of categories, maybe. Maybe, but then they wanna make sure that they're covering everybody, so I can see where organizers have a big job here.  0:17:19 - Lau Yeah it's tough, you know, there's a lot.  0:17:20 - Anne You know everybody wants to be represented. As a matter of fact, I am like all for let's have the best medical narration demo. I want that because you know that's something that I do and that's something I would love to submit for, and there's no category anywhere for that, so I can see where they have to.  0:17:37 - Lau Of course it's entertainment as well, so they have to pad the whole evening with different kinds of entertainment and videos and jokes, and that pads it with another hour or another hour and a half. So I get that, but I totally get that.  0:17:52 - Anne I'm gonna say what do you say Lau about? Like cause, I'm okay with the words. I'm okay with the words because over the years I've learned a little bit more about how they work. And I've won, I've lost, I've not been nominated. I've been nominated. I've been through it all myself, the emotional swing that it can cause, right. And I'm still okay with the words because I can understand them for what they are.  And so, bosses, I hope that this helps you to just kind of get a better grip on what they are and not that it determine your value at all. If you choose not to enter or not support award service, that's entirely fine. You can still be a boss, absolutely. But I don't think that this kind of back and forth war that we have about awards, I think it gets a little bit divided and for not really a good reason. I don't think. If you want to enter, go ahead and enter and don't shame people who enter awards. I really am a big fan of that. I mean I don't love negative talk on social media for people who enter awards or get awards or that kind of a thing.  0:18:54 - Lau I am so with you on that. And that would extend too to people who do not come to the awards, who for many reasons, can't, won't or don't want to come to the awards. I think that's fine. I mean, if I'm being nominated, I'll go because I'm very honored and I'll buy the dress and I'll do the thing and I'll enjoy it. But there are others that say no, it's not my scene or I can't afford it.  0:19:18 - Anne Yeah, oh yeah, I don't want to because I'm in Florida. It can get expensive. I mean, you're talking about, typically, people like to dress for these things. So you're talking airfare, maybe, travel expenses, hotel expenses, dress expenses or suit? Yeah, absolutely, and for me, I had makeup and hair, but I always liked to have an excuse to have it make up and hair.  0:19:40 - Lau But You're so schmelzy that way. Well for me.  0:19:44 - Anne I'm telling you, for me it's a little spa day.  I mean, if somebody can just handle that for me I can think about like what I have to do I always talk about when I present. I like to have hair and makeup because then I don't have to worry about those things, that I can concentrate on my presentation. So while I'm somebody who's doing my hair, I am like doing notes for presentations. For me it's just an investment, but it can be very expensive. Awards can be very expensive and sometimes you have to buy the award after the fact and that is also expensive. So there's a lot of, I think, pros to it but yet a lot of cons, and I don't want you bosses out there to feel any less than worthy or valuable just because you do or don't enter an award show.  0:20:26 - Lau I'm with you on that Ann and. I would say no matter how you take part, I would urge people to take part in some way, whether you're a witness or you're submitting or you're just congratulating someone who won and just support the community in any way that's best and comfortable for you because it is ultimately, I would imagine, there for the people and for the community and for the recognition and we don't want to completely lose that. We want to preserve that, you know. However, you take part.  0:20:57 - Anne And also I wanna just say, unless you're organizing an award event, I think if you could maybe steer clear of criticism. I just I mean, I just I think that if people criticize people who hold events and they say, well, it's all about the money, or they try to figure out, oh, how many people times how much the cost of a ticket, wow, they're making a lot of money. And then they make assumptions on the fact that, oh, they're just doing that because they're greedy or whatever reason you have. I think, honestly, just having a husband who does events and myself I've done events live- YouTube events like.  I think, anybody that can sit back behind a keyboard and criticize about an event if they've not organized one themselves, especially one that's in a hotel, where you have to pay probably a big chunk of fees to a hotel for food, for the space. Just to do that is not a cheap thing at all. And so what event organizers charge for their event? I mean, I just steer clear of any kind of criticism because I know how expensive it can be very expensive, Very, especially in this day and age.  0:22:05 - Lau it's the most expensive it's ever been.  0:22:07 - Anne Oh yeah, absolutely so have a little mercy and understanding on event organizations.  0:22:11 - Lau And then the other thing too and I wanted to say not just about awards, but we're talking about awards right now is like don't look the gift horse in the mouth in regards to, like, the people who organize a range direct all of that deserve the profit they make oftentimes.  0:22:29 - Anne Oh, absolutely, because they are going through such stress.  0:22:33 - Lau It's beyond a full-time job. No one realizes that unless they're involved with that kind of work.  0:22:38 - Anne Well, my husband does it as a full-time job, I mean, and it's crazy because even people that he works with don't understand what it takes to prepare for an event.  0:22:46 - Lau It is crazy, but I love that you said please have compassion, I'm backing you up on that.  0:22:51 - Anne I'm backing you up on that, because it's not easy to do something like that.  But yet it seems so easy for us to sit behind our keyboards and just make assumptions. And I think yeah, and so don't make assumptions about, I think, awards, events, the event organizers or even the judges, or even if you agree or don't agree with awards. I really feel like just one of my favorite sayings is to mind your own business, and I don't mean that in a mom way, I mean that my VO business is my business. And if I feel that maybe entering an award competition will maybe help my marketing, I'm going to do it and I don't want to be criticized for that or looked upon badly for that. But again, and I will try not to cry if I don't win, because I think anybody that knows me knows how darn competitive I am- Ooh, I am competitive, you are, I've got a box of tissues for you.  Thank you, so you don't need to worry about that at all. See the Lau.  0:23:41 - Lau that's why I want you at my side at all at all times I'm ready with a tissue, a handkerchief whatever, a shoulder and a turkey sandwich and a turkey sandwich at all costs A turkey sandwich, and that's what support is like.  0:23:55 - Anne I love that, that kind of support. Right, we need to lift each other up, and so, if awards are your thing, support the people in the community, like Lau supports me with a turkey sandwich and a box of tissues. I love that right, it's so true, it's so true. And Lau. And if I can get you a turkey sandwich at any time, I will do so, and that's why I love you back because we're all about getting of the turkey sandwich.  0:24:23 - Lau It's not even Thanksgiving, that's the best part.  0:24:25 - Anne Bosses, you might be wondering what are they talking about? Well, at one of the last conferences, it happened to be late at night and I had been presenting and had gotten out of like multiple panels and X sessions or whatever it was, and by the time I got to the restaurant to eat they had closed. It was like after 10 o'clock and everything had shut down and I was starving. I literally was like I need something and there was no door dash that could be quick, and so Lau to the rescue. Who actually went and secured me a turkey sandwich that magically appeared from behind the desk Late at night.  0:25:05 - Lau Behind the front desk. Yes, I was like the Ooma Thurman in the Kill Bill series. I just jumped over the desk, I tackled the woman behind there and I said how could you not be?  0:25:17 - Anne open and it was fresh and I ravaged that turkey sandwich. I did, I literally did, and it was, the bread was flying, the turkey was in my mouth and I ate it like a caveman. I mean literally, it was beyond Quentin Tarantino stuff. I didn't even have utilities to eat it with. I ate it with my hands, I know I didn't even have a sword.  0:25:35 - Lau I just used the verbal sword play of my mouth and my words.  0:25:39 - Anne But that's the story of the turkey sandwich and Lau how she came to save me. Okay, so everybody needs a Lau, right, Everybody needs a Lau on their side.  0:25:47 - Lau So, Lau.  0:25:48 - Anne I mean, what a great conversation. I mean, I hope bosses, you guys always know your value, whether you are winning awards or not. Winning awards, you guys, you are gifts and awards in our hearts, and so make sure that you feel that way about yourself and, of course, others in the industry, and let's lift each other up. So I love it.  0:26:08 - Lau We love you if you win, and we love you even more if you don't win, because it's all about your process. There you go.  0:26:15 - Anne There you go, and, speaking of awards and making a difference, you guys can use your voice to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. Just like Lau gives me turkey sandwiches, so you guys visit 100voiceswhocareorg to commit and big shout out to IPDTL, our favorite way to connect Bosses. You, too, can find out more at IPDTLcom. Have an amazing week, guys, and we'll see you next week. Bye.  0:26:47 - Lau Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host and Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.  0:27:17 - Anne This time a little more conversational. I'll give something I actually give something really, really conversational once and they're like oh yeah, give me a little more conversation and I'll give it completely conversational. They'll be like oh Hmm, how about a little more energy? And you know, when they ask for more energy, that usually means they're looking for a little more cell, yeah, if you're not anywhere near it, oh yeah maybe a little more smile, a little more smile, a little more smile, a little more energy that gives you the cell back.  Transcribed by https://podium.page

Gain a fresh perspective on the evolving casting landscape. Whether you're a newbie or an industry veteran, this episode will equip you with knowledge on how to market yourself to a specific niche. The Bosses cover the importance of understanding the language and mindset of your clients. Don't miss this enlightening chat where Anne and Lau share the emerging trends in casting, especially the push for diversity and authenticity. They emphasize the importance of staying true to your individuality, advising actors to embrace their unique accents and regional characteristics, as more companies are seeking authentic representations. Transcript: Anne Ganguzza: Hey everyone, welcome to the VioBoss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with the lovely and most wonderful Lau Lapides. Hello, welcome to our Business Superpowers series. Lau Lapides: Mmm, so excited Anne Ganguzza: Woohoo. Lau Lapides: to be here as always. Anne Ganguzza: And you know, we always need to really up our business superpowers, don't we, Law? Lau Lapides: We do, Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: always, every day. Anne Ganguzza: And I think probably one of the most common things, questions that I get asked as a coach, and also you must as well as an agent and casting directors, what are the current trends in casting? And so how can I better prepare myself to evolve my business to keep up with the trends in casting? So I thought it would be a great opportunity to talk, especially with you, who casts on a day-to-day basis. What are you seeing in terms of casting trends these days, Law? Lau Lapides: Mm, trendy trendy, yes. Well, what's been going on for quite a while is diversity casting. Like Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm, Lau Lapides: we're Anne Ganguzza: mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: always in need of more diversity, more representatives, both accent-wise, language-wise, Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: delivery-wise, culturally. ethnically, I mean, this is all in the mix right now and kind of at the front of the line, Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: which is exciting Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: to see such an international mix of Indigenous peoples that are really representing their country, their region, their, you know, their profile, so to speak. So we're always looking to certainly up our roster, up our game in our roster, finding authentic talent from all over the world, even just Spanish talent. Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: I'm totally in need of authentic Spanish talent of many dialects. Accent-free is fantastic, but then if you're not accent-free, dialects are wonderful if we know specifically where you're placed, because we really have to go with the real deal. Anne Ganguzza: Sure. Lau Lapides: It can't be an actor who's just really great at sound or accents. It really has to be the real person representing. Anne Ganguzza: Well, I'll tell you what I love about it is... not just diversity, but authenticity. I think authenticity all the way around, which has been a trend just coming through the years, and especially now, people are just looking for other people to be authentic. And Lau Lapides: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: so when it comes to my students who originally used to be there, they're like, can you please take away my accent? Or I wanna be good at narration, so should I have this neutral accent? And I'm like, look, as long as I can understand you, number one, important. I mean you don't want to have necessarily you know maybe a speech impediment that would inhibit me from understanding what you're saying. However when it comes to accents I don't think it's as critical as it used to be. It used to be that thing that you had to have absolutely neutral accent whatever that might be these days. But I'm having people in you know embrace their authenticity and if their authenticity is regional right and they have an that would really, you know, work with that. And, you know, I think we've always tried to do that, but even more so now, I feel encouraged to tell my students, don't worry about that. We really just want you to be, I want you to bring you to the party first. That is the most important objective that I have as an educator and as a coach to get you to be authentic. And that really is what I think casting trends today are all about. Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. If you can be the best version of you and really Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: bring that to the table authentically, that's what we're looking for. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: If you can also neutralize it a bit, you know, round it out a bit, Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm, Lau Lapides: that's great too. It just gives Anne Ganguzza: mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: you more options. But Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: I fear for clients that come in, or I should say talent that comes in, especially at a certain stage, you know, once you hit Like even 30 or 35 or 40, it's very, very difficult to authentically change your Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: dialect or shift your accent. It just is. It's not impossible, but it would take a lot of work with a dialectician to do something Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: like that. And I don't think it's necessary. I don't Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: think it should Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: be an objective for you. It really Anne Ganguzza: Oh, Lau Lapides: should Anne Ganguzza: gosh, Lau Lapides: be Anne Ganguzza: it, Lau Lapides: like your vocabulary. Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: What is it, Anne Ganguzza: I mean, Lau Lapides: right? Anne Ganguzza: work with a dialect coach if you want to Lau Lapides: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: maybe consider other dialects for characters, maybe. Lau Lapides: Yes. Anne Ganguzza: But I don't think it's to remove your dialect these days unless, of course, you have a very heavy regional accent, in which case, if you would like to maybe try to lessen that a little bit, I don't think it's necessary to remove it at all, actually. So many companies embracing that authenticity. And now, of course, in the casting specs, they're looking for talent who are authentically from particular areas and regions. And now, if you kind of had that fake accent or that generic accent, that I don't think is needed as much anymore. Is there such a thing? What was it the other day I was on a panel? What is it with the authentic, Midlantic accent, I think. Lau Lapides: Oh, right, Anne Ganguzza: Is that even Lau Lapides: right. Anne Ganguzza: a thing anymore? Lau Lapides: I don't know, Anne Ganguzza: I think Lau Lapides: I Anne Ganguzza: really Lau Lapides: mean. Anne Ganguzza: it's just, they want to have some sort of a, maybe of a dialect where you can't really tell where you're from. I'm not sure. So Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: guys, embrace your authenticity. I think that's so important. And first of all, that's a tall order law Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: to embrace your authenticity. Lau Lapides: Yes. Anne Ganguzza: That I think as actors is really one of the hardest things that we have to do many times I encounter talent who want to sound a particular way or they Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: feel it should sound a particular way and again bringing their authentic selves to the copy is so very difficult. They're either able to you know do that if the copy is written maybe in a dialogue format but when it's not it's very difficult to do that and also I find that a lot of character actors law like Lau Lapides: Mmm. Anne Ganguzza: their characters seem authentic, but yet when you ask them to bring themselves to the table, that becomes an immense challenge. Lau Lapides: Huge, huge challenge. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: I would say too, in regards to the Superpower show that we're Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: working on right now, like one of your superpowers is being a really great business person. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: So a trend I've seen over the last few years is, how qualified are you as a business partner? in terms of your correspondence, in terms of your timing? Are you timely about your responses? We're casting something really big right now with a client and one of our talent, not her fault at all. But our records were just, they either weren't updated or whatever Anne Ganguzza: Mm. Lau Lapides: the case may be. The email never reached her in regards to availability. And so I called her on the phone, I reached her. She said, that's actually not even my email. That's person lets me know when they get my emails. There's something in the system Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Lau Lapides: that defaults. So my point is, like, are you on top of your records, your Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: emails, Anne Ganguzza: Oh. Lau Lapides: your back? Are you flagging your people Anne Ganguzza: I would be Lau Lapides: that you're reaching out Anne Ganguzza: kicking Lau Lapides: to? Anne Ganguzza: myself if that were the case. You know what I mean? If there's one thing that you can prevent, right? In terms of what can you do to help get yourself cast more. Lau Lapides: Right. Anne Ganguzza: It would be making sure your agents and all your, you know, rosters have the most current relevant information and demos as well. Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, and demos as well. Lau Lapides: And making sure it's easily accessible. You expedite really well and really quickly. And, like, being on top of those trends. Like, when we went to a recent conference, you and I, I found that less and less people were giving out actual physical business cards, even though I still Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: love them. I'm old school that way. I like to hold something in my hand. They were doing QR codes. They were Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: on their phone going, you know, take it right off my phone onto your phone, boom, it was fun, it was done, it was quick, I got it. My point is, do the physical business cards if that's what you love and do, but know what the trend is for the online business card Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: because that shows you've got your finger on the pulse of technology Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: and what's going on in our industry. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, and I think casting trends in terms of, yeah, making yourself available, understanding what your agent expects from you communication wise, I think, is very, very important. And also, I'm going to go back to the sound slash demographic. One thing that I want to make people aware of is a lot of times demographics and casting is based on, and trends in companies selling products to a specific demographic. So there are a lot of companies that may have an older audience, or there might be companies that cater to moms, or products that are catering towards young people. I think there's a lot, a lot of times we see the trend going back towards millennial young, because there's so many companies that are just trying to expand their market. So understand guys, I think sometimes we don't think about it. think about casting in terms of, oh, did I, was I making it sound correct, right? Was I the right sound for them? But sometimes you're not the right demographic, right, for the product. And so just remember that if, you know, the next time you get really disappointed that you didn't land that big gig and think that you didn't perform to your ability, a lot of times it's because it's a demographic, a sales demographic, right? It Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: wants to cater to a particular age group. And Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: that would be another thing, La I wanna talk to you about. In terms of casting age groups, I see a lot younger, but also middle-aged. What about older? What about the older demographic? Lau Lapides: We're Anne Ganguzza: That's Lau Lapides: getting Anne Ganguzza: always, Lau Lapides: more. We're Anne Ganguzza: okay, Lau Lapides: getting more Anne Ganguzza: okay. Lau Lapides: and more of that. I mean, probably, Annie, now more than ever, we've had the more Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Lau Lapides: mature demographics. So the senior in the industry is known as like 50 to like 65. Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: 50 to 64 would be a young senior, and then a more mature senior would be the 65 and up. Anne Ganguzza: Okay. Lau Lapides: So we're seeing more of 50 and up for sure, whether Anne Ganguzza: That's Lau Lapides: it's Anne Ganguzza: good. Do you Lau Lapides: health Anne Ganguzza: know what Lau Lapides: or travel. Anne Ganguzza: type, yeah, I was gonna say health, Lau Lapides: Yeah, health, Anne Ganguzza: travel. Lau Lapides: travel, Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: finance, you know, even software is seeing more and more of that coming through. Anne Ganguzza: Okay. Lau Lapides: So Anne Ganguzza: That's actually Lau Lapides: I think there's Anne Ganguzza: really Lau Lapides: a Anne Ganguzza: good. Lau Lapides: lot to look forward to. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, that's really good because I know for a while there, it's tough sometimes, you know, because what products do we have that cater towards, you know, that 55 and up age group? You really have to start thinking about it. And I would always encourage bosses, you know, I do a lot of work in corporate, I do a lot of coaching in corporate and just researching companies in general, researching what products are out there. for what Lau Lapides: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: age groups and as a matter of fact, I'll always have my students, they fill out one of their very first forms and in the vocal branding form is, let's talk about brands you're familiar with for babies. What are brands you're familiar with for teenagers? What brands are you familiar with for middle aged, for seniors? And really try to come up with the brands that you hear being talked about today for these different groups. And understand, just understand that there is a sound in a demographic for each group, and it's all based on sales. So the next time you don't get that big gig, it could just be for the, and we discussed this during our audition demolition, multiple times, Law, that the person might've nailed the performance, but they just didn't have the right demographic. Lau Lapides: Yes, yes, Anne Ganguzza: Mm. Lau Lapides: actually, that is so much of casting, whether Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: you're just, you know, you're a voiceover on camera or both. So much of it is based off of things that, you know, you just is out of your hands. It's out of Anne Ganguzza: Mm hmm. Lau Lapides: your hands. So Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: you Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: have to understand that the profile of who you are, your bio, your background, your is sometimes we can't do much about that. We are Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: who we are. And that's why accepting who you are. being the best version of that is Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: really, really important. Anne Ganguzza: Oh, yes. Lau Lapides: You Anne Ganguzza: Yeah Lau Lapides: know, and finding Anne Ganguzza: Amen. Lau Lapides: what is your strongest Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: suit? Like, what Anne Ganguzza: Yeah Lau Lapides: is your strongest, most competitive value proposition? And really putting that at the forefront Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm, Lau Lapides: so that Anne Ganguzza: agreed. Lau Lapides: you're spending a lot more of your energy in that direction than Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: in 10 different directions, Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: right? Niche it. Niche it down. Anne Ganguzza: it's wonderful to have versatility. I'm all for versatility. However, you need to be able to market yourself, right? Lau Lapides: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: Niche it down, right? To specific niches. Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: And I found that myself as well, right, in terms of voiceover-wise, right? Where would my voice fit in? Where was I getting hired the most? And Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: I think that bosses out there, depending on how you're being cast, you're gonna be able to find that and also do work to develop that more and to really push that, go for auditions that speak to that strength. Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: Now, I'm not saying that you should not audition for anything else. I truly believe that every once in a while you surprise yourself and you audition for something that maybe you don't feel is in your wheelhouse and all of a sudden you'll get cast because you never quite know where that company is headed, right? Maybe they want to switch directions and maybe their demographic is... maybe an older sound, and then maybe they've decided they wanna go more middle-aged, or maybe they wanna, I don't know, speak from a millennial point of view. And so you're never really gonna know. I mean, just like we try to cater to the people who will hire us the most, we can also, every once in a while, give ourselves that surprise. Audition for things that you feel maybe you're not. well suited for, but maybe the company will have a change of heart. Lau Lapides: And also, too, Annie, to piggyback onto that point, is you can, when you're going after your own client base, your own prospects, right, outside of casting director, outside of an agency, outside of all of that, you can mold a little bit of what you do Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Lau Lapides: and who you are in a couple different directions, Anne Ganguzza: Sure. Lau Lapides: but it has to be based on the target demographic. So for instance, if you're going after... as a talent, I'm going after the medical field, I want to do some medical reads, I'm excellent at that, I'm wonderful at technical language. I want to put that out there in my cover letter or at or in my website so that they can point right to that and Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: see, oh, there's my there's my technical reads, I can do medical Anne Ganguzza: Sure, Lau Lapides: reads, Anne Ganguzza: sure. Lau Lapides: I'm understanding healthcare, I get that. Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: So speaking the language and understanding the lingo of a prospect client is going to go a long way. versus them sitting and listening to four Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: demos. Anne Ganguzza: absolutely, Lau Lapides: Oftentimes Anne Ganguzza: absolutely. Lau Lapides: they won't do it. They wanna Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm, Lau Lapides: see where are you coming from? Where's your mindset Anne Ganguzza: mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: and where's your language actually coming from? Does it match Anne Ganguzza: Sure, Lau Lapides: the Anne Ganguzza: absolutely. Lau Lapides: type of work that we do? So I would say go on the website, go on the YouTube channel, look at who they are and what they do before you approach them. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, absolutely. And then have a portion of your demo or have your demo catered to that. You know, I'm a big believer in, let's say, in a lot of corporate demos that I do or long format narration demos. I'm always looking at the different industries that hire voiceover and making a spot for each one of them. So therefore, if you want to cater to an automotive company and you're going to be maybe a narrator on a walkabout or a new sales video, can cater a spot on that demo that speaks the language of the people that you are going, you know, you are selling to. Lau Lapides: That's Anne Ganguzza: And just Lau Lapides: right. Anne Ganguzza: like they want to, you know, a company wants to sell to their demographic, you want to sell your voice that is specifically suited to a particular genre or a particular industry. Make sure that you have samples and you have demo. material that can be sent to these people so that they can hear it right away. And it doesn't, they don't have to listen to like, oh, I listened to your entire commercial demo or your entire corporate narration demo and it was the sixth spot. And I didn't know, you know, from the get go, if it was even in your demo. So Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: you have to really start catering. And I talk about target marketing a lot in my business. And I like to create target marketed demos because I think that helps you to get cash. easier. And now, Law, I'm going to talk to you specifically on the commercial aspect of things because you cast a lot of commercial work. How important is the demo in the commercial work or is it the audition that's most important? Lau Lapides: It's Anne Ganguzza: What Lau Lapides: both. Anne Ganguzza: do you think? Okay. Lau Lapides: It's both. Of course, first it's going to be the demo because I may not have met you or Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: may not have heard you yet. Until you're in our roster, you Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: know, we don't know what you do. We don't know what you're capable Anne Ganguzza: Right. Lau Lapides: of doing. So the first thing that we're going to look at is the demo because chances are great we're not going to do a live audition. Like we never Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: do a live audition when we're listening to people to bring them in as talent to the Anne Ganguzza: Right. Lau Lapides: roster. It's always from a demo. It just Anne Ganguzza: But your Lau Lapides: is. Anne Ganguzza: clients, however, are they going to want to hear a demo or an audition? Lau Lapides: You know, it's a good question and there's some guesswork in that. It's Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: shifting. The trends are really shifting. I think less and less clients are listening to demos and Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: more and more just for time's sake. They want an audition Anne Ganguzza: the audition. Lau Lapides: with a copy from their specific job. Now, that's not to say that if they're considering five people, that they're Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: not going to quickly go and listen to the demos. And here, have you done that kind of work before? I'm sure that they Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: do. But I think upfront, time seems to be always of the issue and they just want to get people in. They want to get them reading and they want to get, so they're relying on us to Anne Ganguzza: Sure. Lau Lapides: have listened to the demo. We have the demo. We've vetted the demo. They're relying Anne Ganguzza: Mm. Lau Lapides: on us that we don't need they, that we don't need to listen to the demo. Anne Ganguzza: because Lau Lapides: The Anne Ganguzza: you've Lau Lapides: agency Anne Ganguzza: already Lau Lapides: already Anne Ganguzza: done it. Lau Lapides: listened Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, Lau Lapides: to it. Yes, Anne Ganguzza: right. Lau Lapides: yes. Anne Ganguzza: Now, I asked you that question specifically because we were talking about commercial or things that typically Lau Lapides: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: are broadcast, right? Now, let's talk about non-broadcast, which I like to think is one of my specialties, right? Lau Lapides: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: Non-broadcast, yeah, your demo's gonna be an important part of it, as well as your audition, okay? So you may get those auditions from an agent, right? I get a certain percentage of corporate work from my agent, and I know that you cast as well. But probably the majority of what you do is commercial work. But for me, corporate work, I get cast either on my audition, but I also get cast quite a bit from my demo. And so it is very important that demo is strategically target marketed towards the market you want to sell to. And so it's good Lau Lapides: always. Anne Ganguzza: to have that demo, because I've been hired off my demo multiple times Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: in a non-broadcast. Lau Lapides: Yes. Anne Ganguzza: market multiple times and my spots on my demo have been able to be split up if I needed to send an independent spot to You know to a particular client to showcase a particular talent They're also on my website kind of they are they are always split apart so that people can see the industry and they can also Listen to the spot and they can say oh, that's automotive and it is You know informational and Inspiring believe it or not. It could be inspiring to be automotive. Lau Lapides: Absolutely, absolutely. Anne Ganguzza: And so both are very, very important. So for me, I'm always a big proponent and a big fan. And I know I, yes, I'm a coach and I do produce demos, but I really believe because I have had personal experience and I know a lot of people in non-broadcast get hired off their demos quite a bit. Lau Lapides: Mm hmm. Anne Ganguzza: So Lau Lapides: Yes. And Anne Ganguzza: it's important. Lau Lapides: I just want to impress upon your bosses, your listeners, that you could get hired in all different realms and for all different reasons. Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: I've gotten hired so many times just during lunch, like Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: just having a lunch meeting with someone just talking to them as I talk to them. And and just recently, I don't know if you even know this, but we're where producers in an audio drama that we're recording in the fall with some big partners out Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: in New York and some amazing names coming into that. And I was producing a preliminary rehearsal table read before it was even cast. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: And I was reading one of the roles because we needed another voice for one of the roles. And the producers came to me and they said, Yala, we kind of want you to play the role. And I said, oh Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: wow, really? Anne Ganguzza: Well, that's Lau Lapides: And Anne Ganguzza: that Lau Lapides: they said, Anne Ganguzza: personal. Lau Lapides: yeah, we do. And that's Anne Ganguzza: That's Lau Lapides: the Anne Ganguzza: that Lau Lapides: personal Anne Ganguzza: personal, Lau Lapides: relationship. Anne Ganguzza: the personal relationship, personal network, which Lau Lapides: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: is really important, guys. Lau Lapides: Really. Anne Ganguzza: And casting trends, I think this has always been a trend in casting, is that relationship. Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: And gosh, when I went to Amsterdam, you know, to teach at one of the retreats there for J. Michael, I met up with a studio in Amsterdam, who just because they saw me on my website, listened to my demos, and then I met them in person, a working relationship with them. And is it because, am I the absolute best female voice they've ever heard in their life? Of course so, but no. But really, do you know what I mean? Like, Lau Lapides: It's... it's... Anne Ganguzza: it's all about that relationship, right? That relationship. And I, Lau Lapides: Yes. Anne Ganguzza: look, I am not proud, guys. I, my ego does not get in the way. If I get the job, I get the job. You know what I mean? And I'm like, look, this is a business to me. For me, my ego doesn't need to be the best, be labeled as the best and touted as the best female voiceover ever legend. Because gosh, it's all subjective. We know this over and over again. But because I worked on that relationship, I had things in place. And I was ready, willing, and eager to help. and lend my thoughts when they asked, hey, what's it like in the States in hiring for this type of work? And because I developed that relationship and I did that work, bam, I got the job. Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: And that is absolutely a valid, successful way to get cast. Lau Lapides: And sometimes it's not, it's very pure. Sometimes your Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: intention is literally not to get cast or get the Anne Ganguzza: Yeah? Lau Lapides: job. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: It's really to get the relationship. I always Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: like to say, I would rather get the relationship than the job because I'm building a career. I'm not working jobs, I'm building a career. And there are two different things. So if I'm gonna sort of lose the battle, but I'm gonna win the war, so to speak, I'd rather do that. In other words, I wanna make myself invaluable. So if I'm not the voice, as a voice talent, I'm going to find you great Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: people that are the voice. I'm going to recommend friends of mine. Anne Ganguzza: Oh, absolutely. Lau Lapides: I'm going to recommend Anne Ganguzza: Now, Lau Lapides: other agencies. Anne Ganguzza: law. way Lau Lapides: Right? Anne Ganguzza: back in the beginning, it's one of the reasons why I wanted to start the VO Peeps networking group. Because I started the VO Peeps because I wanted to have a collection of like-minded people, but then I said, what am I going to do for them? I want to provide an educational resource. So I started interviewing, right? I started interviewing all of my idols because I Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: wanted to develop that relationship. Lau Lapides: Yes. Anne Ganguzza: Okay? And it wasn't coming at them in a hire Lau Lapides: Yes. Anne Ganguzza: you know, a very different format where I just wanted to, I was interested in them and I wanted to share their resources with my community. And because of that, I became known. And once you become known, right, over the years, then you become top of mind for referrals. Lau Lapides: Yes. Anne Ganguzza: And that absolutely is where that relationship work comes into play. Lau Lapides: And there's no, or at least there shouldn't be any desperation surrounding that. I don't know if you'd call that a trend. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: I think that Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: was always the case. Anne Ganguzza: Well, I like Lau Lapides: But Anne Ganguzza: to Lau Lapides: now Anne Ganguzza: say Lau Lapides: so Anne Ganguzza: casting Lau Lapides: more than Anne Ganguzza: trends, Lau Lapides: ever Anne Ganguzza: this Lau Lapides: is Anne Ganguzza: is just Lau Lapides: like, Anne Ganguzza: a casting like known, Lau Lapides: yeah, Anne Ganguzza: it's a Lau Lapides: if Anne Ganguzza: known Lau Lapides: we're talking, Anne Ganguzza: fact. Lau Lapides: right, it's a fact. Anne Ganguzza: Why Lau Lapides: If Anne Ganguzza: do Lau Lapides: we're Anne Ganguzza: you get Lau Lapides: talking Anne Ganguzza: cast? Lau Lapides: to people like, like quiz yourself, if Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: I'm in an event or if I'm talking to someone on Zoom, am I thinking the whole time, oh, I want them to hire me. Oh, I want that Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: job. Or am I? really actively listening to what they're Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: saying to me and offering value to them in points that make the conversation invigorated and alive and then following up after that and doing Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: the due diligence to follow up after that. Am I doing all of that or am I just Anne Ganguzza: Right. Lau Lapides: thinking oh I want I would love them to get that get me that job and I really want Anne Ganguzza: And Lau Lapides: to Anne Ganguzza: yeah, and a lot of times, you know what? You'll get the job because you have proven yourself to be reliable, to be focused and intent on serving that client's needs and or agents needs. I can't tell you how many agents I interviewed first and then they got to know me and guess who got put on the roster? Just saying, right? As long as everything is in place. Right, we have that. And again, I know we're talking casting trends, but I think we would be remiss if we did not mention the importance of, maybe it's not a trend, but the fact that the relationships account. And that's relationships between you and your agents, and relationships between you and your direct clients. Lau Lapides: Yes. Anne Ganguzza: And of course, agents are all dependent on relationships with their clients to get you work, right? Lau Lapides: Yes. Anne Ganguzza: It all just kind of feeds into the system. Lau Lapides: Yeah, and I think the trend part comes in, Annie, where we say, okay, we all know this, we want real voices, casual, relatable voices, we want that. Well, how does that transcribe to the real world? Well, as I'm making the relationships, building the relationships, really talking, really conversing, really paying attention, I'm showcasing and demoing what I do for my real Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Lau Lapides: in like now the last couple years are gonna say, ooh, I'm listening to them. I like the way they sound. Ooh, Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: they sound really cool. And they're going to assume, they're gonna run on the assumption Anne Ganguzza: that Lau Lapides: that Anne Ganguzza: you Lau Lapides: you Anne Ganguzza: can Lau Lapides: can Anne Ganguzza: do Lau Lapides: then Anne Ganguzza: that. Lau Lapides: bring that into the booth. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: Yeah, Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: so that's Anne Ganguzza: That's Lau Lapides: where Anne Ganguzza: a Lau Lapides: I think Anne Ganguzza: huge, Lau Lapides: the trend is. Anne Ganguzza: that's a huge assumption guys. So bosses, I want you to be prepared for that. That means, right? The fact that you're gonna bring that authenticity, that connection to you in the booth. What does that mean? That means you need to be the actor. You need to be an actor. You can no longer, no longer is it. And maybe back, I don't know, in the 60s, it was okay to have that announcer-y voice and make it sound a particular way, but it is no longer the case where you can just go in and make it sound pretty. You just can't. You just can't. You've got to be able to bring that connection, and that requires acting. And if you do not have the acting chops, then you need to get the acting chops. And I'm a big believer that you can train. You can train to get this. You can train to... have that connection and that authenticity to the story. Because again, how important, how many times do we hear, we are storytellers. And you, you know, I don't know if I've heard that phrase over and over and over again, but sometimes it's like, yeah, okay, I know I'm a storyteller. But really, am I a storyteller when I'm doing an e-learning module? Yeah, you absolutely are. You've got to know how to Lau Lapides: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: take those words and make them sound meaningful and make them come alive. And so that is being able to tell a story, being the actor. So casting Lau Lapides: Yeah, and Anne Ganguzza: trends, Lau Lapides: it's- Anne Ganguzza: be the actor and showcase that to whoever will listen. And that's what's going to get you cast. Lau Lapides: And we Anne Ganguzza: Right? Lau Lapides: don't equate story with fiction. Story Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: is connection. It's really Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, yeah, Lau Lapides: sharing, Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: sharing an experience, sharing a happening, sharing an event Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: with another or with a group for information, for persuasion, for entertainment, for whatever purposes. It doesn't necessarily mean it's false or fiction or fake. It Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: means it's very well could be real and fact-based. but it's in a story form, it's in a narrative Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: form. And understanding how to handle that in very real and authentic ways, exactly the trend of the industry today. Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Wow. I know we just kind of, I feel like we went off, but I mean, honestly, the whole, Lau Lapides: Ha ha! Anne Ganguzza: what's important? Diversity, Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: authenticity. It's not so much about having that perfect sound. It's about the connection you have, and the connection you have not just to your material and the fact that you can actually vocalize that, but the connection you have with your agents, with your. your potential clients, because that is what's going to get you cast. Lau Lapides: Absolutely. Anne Ganguzza: And knowing yourself and knowing where you fit in this, knowing yourself enough to go for those areas that you excel in. Lau Lapides: and staying bright and hopeful and positive and humorous. Anne Ganguzza: Mm, Lau Lapides: That Anne Ganguzza: yes, Lau Lapides: is a Anne Ganguzza: yes. Lau Lapides: trend of like, whether it's Anne Ganguzza: Cause Lau Lapides: we're Anne Ganguzza: I Lau Lapides: looking Anne Ganguzza: wanna work Lau Lapides: for, Anne Ganguzza: with somebody like that, Lau Lapides: yeah, whether Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: we're looking for a standup comedian or we're looking for a mom Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: sitcom type, or we're looking for, we want pops of humor and pops of humility in your work. Anne Ganguzza: Oh, love Lau Lapides: And Anne Ganguzza: that. Lau Lapides: that's real for us, that's Anne Ganguzza: Puffs Lau Lapides: real, Anne Ganguzza: of humor and humility, Lau Lapides: you know. Anne Ganguzza: I love that. Yeah. What a wonderful topic, wonderful topic. And Law, thank you for lending your ultimate wisdom in Lau Lapides: Mmm Anne Ganguzza: what you do and what you love every day. And again, we appreciate you so much, Law. Lau Lapides: I appreciate you tremendously. Anne Ganguzza: Well, you guys, I want to ask you, you know, as individuals, right, it's difficult sometimes to feel like we're making a huge impact, but as a group, we can absolutely contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never thought possible. Visit 100VoicesWhoCare.org to find out more and to learn how. Big shout out to IPDTL. I love connecting with law and all of you bosses. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Mwah! Lau Lapides: See you next Anne Ganguzza: Bye! Lau Lapides: week. Mwah!

  Ready to lift the veil on the VoiceOver industry and its many facets? My guest co-host, Tom Deere, and I are here to give you the insider's scoop on the role of agents, pay to plays, and emerging technology in the field. We spill the beans on how agents earn their crust, the types of work where they might prove beneficial, and why they're not a must-have for a successful voice-acting career. We also venture into the territory of synthetic voices and the effect they have on non-broadcast contracts, while underscoring the importance of time limits on contracts for one-off jobs. Plug in and join us on this enlightening journey that will offer you a new perspective on the VoiceOver industry.     About Tom   Tom Dheere is the VO Strategist, a voiceover business & marketing consultant. As a voice actor with over 25 years of experience, he brings his wealth of voiceover knowledge to the table with his 1-one-1 voiceover strategy sessions, Diagnostic sessions, his Mentorship Program, and many public appearances. 0:00:01 - Anne Alright, everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and this is the real boss series. I'm happy to welcome back to the show real boss guest co-host Tom Deere. Tom, thanks so much for joining me. 0:00:16 - Tom Hello, thanks for having me back. 0:00:20 - Anne I love having real talk. I think there's so many things in this industry that sell the dream of being a Vio artist, being a Vio actor making money just talking behind your microphone, all of those things. I like to think that Tom and I have been in the industry for so long that, god, we've seen it all. We're just going to be real with you guys, because I think that everyone deserves the real talk, the real story behind VoiceOver. I'm going to tell you that I had a student this week who came to me, a beginner, and who was asking me all about agents. They were under the impression that they needed an agent in order to get the work and that the agent would be the one that got all the work for them. All they had to do was perform behind the mic. Perhaps we should talk about some myths and truths about what this industry is really about. We'll start with agents. 0:01:25 - Tom Tom Sure. One of the biggest challenges for voice actors coming into the industry aspiring voice actors is that most of them feel that they immediately need to relieve themselves for the responsibility of actually doing the work to get the work. 0:01:41 - Anne This leads right into that. 0:01:44 - Tom That's exactly the mindset that your student that you just referred to has. It's like the second I get into the industry, I got to find someone who will do all the work for me, because that's how it works. A huge myth is that you need an agent to be a successful voice actor. 0:02:00 - Anne I'll be honest, tom. When I first started I didn't know. Again, we talk about this all the time. I didn't know what I didn't know. Here we are bosses For those of you just starting out. You don't need an agent, Tom. We're going to expand on that. I used to think that I would get an agent and then that would give me all of my work. I erroneously thought that. Then, once I realized very quickly that that wasn't the case, I proceeded to work for four years before I got my full time, before I got my first agent. 0:02:32 - Tom I don't remember how long it took. I know my longest standing representative I got in 2005. It's been 18 years that I've worked with that particular manager. Everyone before that was either ripping me. Everyone I had that rep me before that was selling me stuff or wouldn't pay me on time. It was just a big mess. 0:02:54 - Anne That was a different time. Tom right, yes, With agents and agents that we didn't really know who they were and there were people that did take advantage. I don't know if that exists so much anymore, but that might be a different podcast. 0:03:09 - Tom Tom One of my students just said this week that there's a particular agent that they have that keeps bothering about. Oh, you need new headshots. You got to come to me to get headshots, but you have to pay me. I know a guy you want to stay on my roster. 0:03:20 - Anne You got to work with him. I know a guy. I know a guy. I know where he's from. 0:03:23 - Tom I think it still happens just a lot less than it used to, mostly because of educational reasons. Most people now know what it means to be a franchised agent, which is one that is certified, approved by SAG-AFTRA. That's one of them. But yeah, you don't necessarily and the operative term is necessarily need an agent to be a successful voice actor, because you, as a voice actor, need to define what success is for you as a voice actor and that will tell you if you need an agent. So, like, if you want to you know you want to narrate audiobooks you don't need an agent. You want to be in fallout halo cartoon network pilot. Yeah, you probably need an agent. 0:04:03 - Anne You want to do a national spot commercial? Probably, although I would say local spots maybe not so much anywhere but national spots, national spots probably you're going to need an agent, and I think the one thing is to be educated on, first of all, what an agent does and truly you know what is in the best interest of an agent. Right, agents are a business as well, right they're? I mean, they want to make money just as much as we want to make money. So how are they going to make money? They're going to develop relationships with clients who will then hire them to cast or help cast right for voiceover jobs, and typically they will be spots that will be paid with usage intact, and so there's an opportunity to make a percentage of money each and every time that voice gets used. And that's why agents will deal in a lot in commercial or anything that's broadcast, and anything that's non-broadcast typically does not require an agent. So, again, as you, as Tom, as you mentioned e-learning, corporate, anything that's one and done. But I'm going to just kind of put this out here, tom, with the advent of synthetic voices and I know we had a wonderful podcast episode about that not so long ago, and actually we're going to be at evocation talking about. Yes, we're going to be on the same panel talking about that, yeah yeah, I think that we have to start thinking about maybe changing that non-broadcast in perpetuity clause. I mean, I know that for me, with the coming up of synthetic voices, I have been really wanting to put like a time limit on all my non-broadcast stuff. Just at the end of my little contract or my email I'll say this is for a year and most people if I'm doing a one-off they're not going to need it or the content will expire after a year and so that's okay. So I actually put a time limit on it. So I kind of give it usage, but not necessarily broadcast usage which every year. Well, of course, it would be great. You're going to pay me again in a year. I'm going to do another content module for you. But yeah, I diverge off of that. So for agents, you don't necessarily need an agent, but I do get corporate work from my agents. 0:06:20 - Tom Literally. Yesterday I narrated two explainer videos for a company through one of my agents and so, yeah, once in a while it'll be an explainer or corporate thing. But yeah, the majority of the stuff that I get through my agents and managers is political, which is broadcast. And I get a lot of pharma commercials but like spec demo stuff which doesn't necessarily turn into broadcast. And if they do choose my voice and it does turn into broadcast, then I get paid for the usage beyond just the internal usage of the project. So, yes, agents, do you know who is it said that agents are like baseball cards they're fun to collect, but only a couple are valuable. 0:07:06 - Anne I love that. That's actually. I think that's really true. Yeah, somebody in our business and somebody in our industry said that that's very interesting because I at one point acquired I have 11, but in reality pandemics come and go and markets shift and change, and so there are a number of agents who are not. I have a couple of agents that I think I really stick with because they know me, they know my voice, they give me opportunities that are catered to my voice and it's not necessarily a cattle call and I'm not belittling any agent that does that, because agents are busy. I mean, if they've got work, they wanna make it available to their roster, and I think that that's a wonderful thing. But just you don't have to have a ton of agents either. I mean really just work with the ones that you have a great relationship with, and that becomes fruitful for both of you. 0:07:58 - Tom Yeah, and it is a synergistic relationship. And here's another myth when it comes to agents is that most voice actors think that they work for their agents. That is not true. 0:08:12 - Anne You work with your agents. 0:08:14 - Tom It's a complimentary, synergistic B2B relationship, because they can't make money without you and you can make money without them, if you think about it, because you can use other ways of booking voiceover work, which we'll talk about down the road. But yes, but just remember, it's an equal relationship and you need to vet your agent and ask them the right questions to see if they're a good fit for you, if you have determined that they're right for you, at this current point in your voiceover journey and for the vast majority of voice actors who are starting out, you do not need an agent. You don't. You also don't have value, yet you don't have the value delivery that an agent would want you for for the most part. 0:09:00 - Anne For the most part, they're looking for you know you've already done some work, so typically they're looking for some experience in the field and a recommendation, typically All right. Let's talk. Another myth. All right and it's another big one that always causes a lot of controversy. Pay to plays right, pay to plays okay. Do you need pay to plays? Do you not need pay to plays? If you use pay to plays, you're a loser because you're bringing down the value of the industry. There's just so many things, and especially certain pay to plays. Right, oh, if you use this pay to play, you're evil or you're working for the enemy or whatever it is. I think that there are good pay to play online casting sites, and there are online casting sites that maybe I wouldn't want to align myself with. 0:09:45 - Tom But that's a personal preference. 0:09:47 - Anne It is a decision I make for my business. But yeah, I think myths about pay to plays is, if you are on them, you are a bottom feeder. Tom what are your thoughts? 0:09:57 - Tom Here's the thing about that, ann, is that every sector of every industry, of every business on the planet has a percentage of people who are sketchy, shady bottom feeders. 0:10:11 - Anne Every single industry. 0:10:12 - Tom So true, the voiceover industry is no exception. There are a percentage of people, because there are humans doing this. A percentage of them will be predatory. That will try to get you to do voiceovers for as little money as possible and clone your voice or turn it into a commercial. You know, do stuff. 0:10:30 - Anne Speaking of which, if I can just interject, that's the whole discussion about AI as well. You will have bad actors. You will have evil companies that will try to steal your voice. The same thing, right A? 0:10:42 - Tom percentage of them AI, pay to play or anyone else will try to take advantage of you, and there are a percentage of voice actors, regardless of how they're booking their voiceover work, will be unscrupulous, because there are a percentage of voice actors who try to go behind the back of their agent and work directly with the producer. There's a percentage, and just like there's a percentage of them, who are on certain pay to play sites whose guideline says you need to maintain the relationship with the client on site, for reasons that I totally understand. I understand and they will try to undermine that. So pay to plays does not make people unscrupulous Unscrupulous people go to pay to play sites. They have agents. They do all sorts of stuff. So I do not buy that argument. It's also pay to plays is just reflection of technology and the economy of supply and demand. 0:11:35 - Anne Oh, thank you. Thank you, tom, for saying that. I mean really it's, and you know I worked in technology, so I mean just having been in that industry for gosh, you know, over 20 years. It just it happens, guys. Technology happens. We're not stopping it. We can fight it, we can put our head in the sand, we can kick and scream and yell and cry and do all these things, but gosh, it's not going away and ultimately we need to evolve. And, gosh, I will just say this until the cows come home and, tom, you say the same thing. We just need to evolve with it and the market will evolve with it. Ultimately it doesn't happen. I just caution. I tell the story. When I, in the early, well, late, 1990s, I installed voice over IP phone systems and it was early adopted technology and the calls would drop. There would be horrible sound, it would sound echoey, and everybody said this technology sucks, it's never gonna last. Well, guess what? Everyone? We use it today and we don't even realize that we use it. So give yourself, I say for any large disruptor of technology, right, which happens for all of us. Like home studios were a disruptor of technology. Digital music, mp3s were a disruptor of technology. Synthetic voices there, a disruptor of technology. I say it's got a lifespan of. You know, not a lifespan, but let it evolve a good 10 to 15 years, because that's what I saw from voice over IP, and then it's going to be seamlessly integrated somewhere in some way. That will become the norm. And that is something that if we do not accept that right, the norm, then we certainly it's gonna be hard for us to be in business. 0:13:08 - Tom Yeah, pay to plays are now. What was once disruptive 15 years ago is now part of the norm, and I know this because my direct marketing and indirect marketing strategies became, over the few, over span of a few years, far less effective. My cold calls. My emails, my blogging, my newsletters, my social media, all of it just took a nosedive and effectiveness because those clients that I was courting or working with via direct and indirect marketing strategies went to pay to play sites. 0:13:40 - Anne And why? Because it was easy for them. 0:13:42 - Tom Easier, faster. 0:13:44 - Anne Convenient and fast, and isn't that the whole idea behind the technology? So reality bosses right. Reality bosses, is technology right and again myth or you know, we're going to bust the myth. Another myth that I'm going to say that goes along with this is that technology is a disruptor and we can fight it and we can stand up together and we can stop. What we can do is we can maybe stop unfair usage through technology of our voices, but we're not going to stop the technology itself? 0:14:17 - Tom No, no. 0:14:18 - Anne Technology is designed to make lives easier, exactly and convenient and human nature is to do those things right. Yes, that will be easier. Right, I'm. And again, I say it all the time I use Alexa, I talk to Alexa. All the time I use new softwares on my computer that are faster, easier. You know new apps that I download. Oh my God, this is going to be great. I can do this now. I can now record this, or I can do this so much easier. I've got rocket money tracking my subscriptions. Oh my God, that's fantastic. This technology, ai, synthetic voices, all this stuff that we are fighting and screaming about, it happens and at some point we do evolve with it, without necessarily having a complete impact. just the one of us right. I will say, though, that I do believe, like you know. I want to say that this is no way reflective of my thoughts about the strike right now, because I do believe that you can fight collectively for rights that are due to you. You just cannot stop the technology. 0:15:23 - Tom Right, it's yes, because I mean, do you think back in the day when the wheel was invented, that there were people who were protesting the use of the wheel because it was disrupting? Their you know whatever business they were, that was disrupted by wheels. No, it's insane, everyone's like. Of course you use the wheel. It makes your life easier. Pay to plays, make voice seekers' lives easier. And it also makes it easier for us because, instead of spending so much time going on Google and LinkedIn and creating all these marketing campaigns which you should do- and can do and can be effective. 0:15:55 - Anne It just adds to your marketing plan. 0:15:57 - Tom Yes, it complements it. 0:15:59 - Anne It's not one size fits all, because direct marketing can be effective if you've got a plan right. I mean, I have a direct marketing package. I mean, tom, I know you do direct marketing, so I do. And it will. It will work, but I think to be just the one solution. I think you've got to really just grab as many solutions as you can and get yourself out in front of as many people as you can to have more and more opportunities. 0:16:23 - Tom Absolutely, absolutely. 0:16:26 - Anne Yeah, so what's another myth, tom? 0:16:28 - Tom Oh well, let's see. Well, you know the union, that's another one. 0:16:32 - Anne Yeah. 0:16:33 - Tom Absolutely. The myth is that if you, if you want to be a successful voice actor, you have to join the union SAG After we're talking about, and if you are not in SAG. The other myth is that if you are not in SAG After, you are, by definition, unethical. 0:16:50 - Anne Yeah, okay. 0:16:51 - Tom And I have had conversations with both people who are desperate to get into SAG After because they think that once they enter SAG After they will automatically be successful as a voice actor, which is not true. That will be the top echelon of being a voice actor, which is not necessarily true, and I have spoken to SAG After members who think I am scum and I've been pursuing voiceover and charging you know industry standard rates for 25 years. Well, isn't that great. But I am a scumbag because I am not in SAG After. 0:17:21 - Anne Isn't our rate guide based off of SAG After, to begin with anyways, absolutely. I think that's everything started that way I mean I remember when I started you know, quoting people, jobs and it was all based on SAG After rates. And then, ultimately, you know GVA. Everybody talks about GVA rate guide, which is amazing, but that evolved after. You know, a bunch of us that have been in the industry for 5000 years had developed our own rate sheets and our own painstaking ways and by the way that is oh, there's a met. That's another myth, tom, that we can talk about in just a minute. That's the myth of like there's a specific amount to charge per job. Okay, yeah, we can get that, let's finish talking about yeah, let's finish talking about the union. And I based my rates off of union and I thought, oh God, am I a horrible actor if I don't join the union, or I must join the union? And once I do so, I will have made it, and so, in reality, you just have to understand what jobs the union is supporting and behind and helping to serve their client base. 0:18:26 - Tom Right, I am, and for the record I am non-union but I am pro-union. I am pro-collectively-bargained, Absolutely. You know, protecting everybody, make sure everybody gets paid a fair amount. 0:18:36 - Anne Agreed. 0:18:37 - Tom And health intention and all of that stuff, but as a voice actor who's early in your journey, you wanna make the same exact calculation about SAG-AFTRA as you do about agents, which we just talked about a second ago. Which is what kind of work do I wanna have? What's my perfect voiceover day? What genres of voiceover am? 0:18:56 - Anne I doing. 0:18:57 - Tom And are those casting opportunities that I want? Are they union driven? So if you wanna do class A national commercials, yes, you need to be in SAG-AFTRA. Do you wanna narrate audio books? Well, you can be in SAG-AFTRA, because there's very specific contracts which I don't pretend to understand the intricacies of. But you can be union or non-union and do audio books and it can contribute to your health and pension. And I know a lot of people I know you do too whose path into and saying in the union is through audio books and they do a great and they make a great living and they get their health and pension and everything's fantastic. So it just all depends. If you wanna be an e-learning narrator, do you. Must you join SAG-AFTRA? Not necessarily. It all depends on what kind of work you're getting, where are you getting it. And then there's the whole. You can turn non-union into union work, but that's a whole other conversation. But, yeah, you go through the same thought process of will being an agent make me an effective voice actor for my definition of success and will joining SAG-AFTRA make me, or contribute to making me, an effective voice actor based on my definition of success. 0:20:09 - Anne Absolutely, absolutely. So now let's get to that point where there's a magic number to charge for every specific job. So I like to address this one because I think, tom, you and I both we're in the trenches okay that in the trenches where there weren't a lot of Facebook groups, we were like before there were, you know, voiceover conferences, before there was really the internet. I mean, I'm not saying not before there, although the internet really became big in the early 1990s. 0:20:40 - Tom Remember we talked about it, Right, but social media. 0:20:41 - Anne But social media and all of this collective right, collective networking online which has really brought a lot of wealthy, a wealth of information, I should say, to us as voice actors and for our businesses. It didn't exist. And so, Tom and I, when we I feel like get off my lawn, I had to walk 10 miles to the voiceover booth and-. 0:21:08 - Tom Up hill both ways. 0:21:09 - Anne Up hill in the snow and there was no one there to tell us what to charge no one. And literally from I swear to God, from the air I pulled rates. I didn't know what to do. The only thing I had available at the time was SEG after rates, and all the SEG after rates didn't really talk about e-learning and so, in reality, I just pulled it from the air. I pulled it from the air based upon what I thought my time was worth, and I'm gonna say we clawed our way into creating our rate sheets. And remember, tom, when it was a big thing, do we publish our rate sheets? 0:21:49 - Tom Or we not. I always say no. Every job is negotiable. Every job is negotiable, Terrible idea. 0:21:56 - Anne But honestly there is no magic number for really any of it. There's a baseline, there's a guideline right. And you can certainly. Today we have all sorts of references. We have SEG, after we have GVAA, we have gravy for the brain all those wonderful guides that give us ideas on what to charge. But is there a perfect number for a live announce that's going to happen three days in a row? And what do you charge on the third day if it's only half a day? You know that kind of thing and you're gonna be sharing the mic with another person. You know that kind of thing when there's all sorts of special circumstances. Is there a perfect number for that? And why isn't it in the rate guide? There just isn't. And guys, sometimes you just gotta pull it from the air or your rear end. That's what. 0:22:37 - Tom I say I just tell you that's where I got that number and there's no shame. There's no shame in that, and there's no shame in just asking the client what's your budget? Yes, oh my god. And they say the boss gave me this amount of money to work with and either you're comfortable with that number or you're not and if it's in within 10, 20% of what you normally charge, take it, do it. 0:22:58 - Anne That's, I think one of the smartest things you can do is ask what the budget is. I mean really. I mean because your budget, like you, might only wanna charge them, I don't know a few hundred dollars, but then their budget might be a thousand. I'm like, oh yeah, I think I can manage that. 0:23:10 - Tom Right right. 0:23:11 - Anne And so always asking the budget and that's like real. I think that's rule one of negotiations, right. Ask what the budget is. 0:23:18 - Tom And it's funny, ann and I know you know this is that budgets, you know, Budgets are usually set in advance for departments and whatever, for the often the year or sometimes quarter or whatever, and and these people that we're working with know that if they don't use all of that budget, next year their budget may be smaller Because they didn't use all of that budget. 0:23:39 - Anne Oh my god, you just brought your corporate to me. I love it. 0:23:42 - Tom Yeah, so sometimes, sometimes they want to pay you more than you would normally charge because they want to make sure they have they can get this budget, same budget for next year. So and that actually puts you at an advantage, that puts you in an advantage, not over them, but with them. 0:23:59 - Anne Are you with me in terms of have we not more than once thought about, oh gosh, if I were to, if I were to go on the corporate side and charge my coaching fees for corporate? Or what I do for Corporate and a corporate rate. 0:24:11 - Tom I'd be putting zeros at the end of my hourly rates. 0:24:13 - Anne That's exactly it I mean. So, remember, guys. I mean, companies have budgets and again, companies, departments, fight like hell for budgets, right, and they fight like hell to get Bigger budgets so that they can be successful, right, and the and and really is it are they. Are they caring so much about the company? Well, in reality, I think the people within the companies and within the departments, they again, we all just want to feel loved, right, we want to do a good job, we want to be appreciated and loved for what we do, and and that's really what it is. So I, you cannot, you cannot scrape me away from loving the corporate market, for sure. In a lot of ways. I may not work for a corporation anymore in the traditional sense, but I certainly do. In voiceover land, I work for them and I and I understand that budget. So, yeah, so there is no magic number, for you know what will it cost me to do? You know three pages of on hold messages for this company that I? You know they said their budget is only this amount. What should I do? You know, a lot of times, guys, you, you really just have to learn the art of this, the subtle art of negotiation, and sometimes that number just is is made up. 0:25:32 - Tom Made up. Guys. Sometimes and most of the time, it's not about you taking advantage of them or trying to take advantage of you. It's not about, yeah, what most of our students and go through is like they're terrified that if they're too aggressive the client's gonna walk away and if they're not aggressive enough they're gonna get taken advantage of. I'd say at least 80% of the time that is not the case at all. They've got this budget, they've got this thing to do. They found you, they like you. They want to give you money to say stuff out loud, which is what you want. So, most of the time you're gonna be fine and you know I've got so many clients I'll be like 400. They'll be like okay, or just same as last time, okay or hey. It's a new year. Can I up this by 50 bucks? 0:26:12 - Anne And they go okay. 0:26:13 - Tom Yeah, so most of time it's just, it's just easy peasy, just you know. 0:26:17 - Anne And here's one other thing I'll say is up in your price, yeah use the workaround of the rate guides. 0:26:22 - Tom I don't charge this rate. 0:26:23 - Anne This is the industry standard. 0:26:25 - Tom You know what I mean. You can use that so yeah, do we have time? For one more myth. 0:26:29 - Anne All right, one more myth. We got time for one more myth. What do you? Got time? 0:26:33 - Tom The AI myth well, which we don't even know, is a myth, yet not because it's still too early that could be an entire, that could be an entire podcast episode. 0:26:40 - Anne But okay, yeah, let's start. Let's start well. 0:26:42 - Tom Well, just just just the inkling of you know the myth, the well I, well I the myth that AI is gonna take all of our jobs, take our jobs away? 0:26:49 - Anne Yeah, no, and look, I'm a technology buff. I worked in technology for gosh 20 some odd years. I love technology. Tom and I are on multiple panels talking about AI and, honestly like, is it going to take our jobs away, tom? 0:27:05 - Tom It's gonna. It has the potential to take small percentage of some of our jobs away. I think that's reasonable. 0:27:15 - Anne But I think the mass panic right now, I think Tom is maybe good because it will get people's attention and it will and mostly our attention right, I wanted to get the people in the industry's attention so that they can educate themselves on how to be smart about their business. And that means don't let anybody take advantage of you, don't let anybody put something in a contract that will allow them to steal your voice or use your voice in perpetuity, forever and ever and ever, without knowledge, or create a synthetic voice, and that's what is going on now. I think that you know a big part of the strike is, you know, is got that AI rider in there and that companies need to compensate us. If they're going to use the technology and utilize our, our creative assets right, then we need to be compensated for that. We need to be compensated fairly and that's what I think we are all fighting for and as long as you are smart about that and you educate yourself and again, vo Boss has done over 30 episodes of talking. I talked to CEOs of companies who make voices. I talked to industry leaders in the AI industry, tom I've talked to Tom. I've talked to I'm going to be presenting next week, actually at an AI conference talking about ethical, you know, and and and rights for voice artists and in synthetic voices. So, guys, educate yourself on that. It's it will not there. We will have to evolve along with that technology. But be stay on top of it and understand how you can. You can run your business around that. 0:28:48 - Tom Right. One quick thing all the way on the other side of it is that there are certain voice actors and groups of voice actors on social media who are perpetuating the myth that AI is not going to take away any of our jobs and if you are just doing nothing but direct marketing, you're gonna be perfectly fine. That is also not true. It's not true because that means they are ignoring the reality of technology that is affecting our industry. Don't put your head in the sand either. Don't put your head in the sand, yeah absolutely and just and just understand and evolve. 0:29:19 - Anne And so, if it's going to, if it's probably and again, I I'm of the belief that there is that percentage of the market like we talked about in the beginning right, the bottom feeders. Right, they'll always be the bottom feeders that don't care about the quality of the voice, right, when that's not you know, the top quality of voice is not on their, their budget or on their brain then they're going to use synthetic voice and there's nothing you're going to do to stop that. Right, because it's going to be convenient and it's going to be easy and it's going to be cheaper. Okay, now, if somebody but again, I am the, I'm always the perpetuating manifesting, I am a celebrity voice, I am an influencer, right, tom, you are an influencer. If somebody wants to use my synthetic voice, they're going to have to pay me, compensate me for it. Oh yeah, and I'm not going to be cheap, right, because my brand is not cheap and I'm not saying it's going to be more expensive than my human voice, but I'm certainly going to be able to. Oh sure, I can cut you a deal on that, right, but it's not going to be pennies. I'll tell you that because my voice is worth something, my influence my the way that I can help brand and market for a company. I am holding true to that now. Whether a company chooses to buy into that and pay me fairly, then that's awesome. If they don't, they don't. I say no to it. Right and that's it, and my voice is protected just like any other type of job that I would do, right. Yeah, if you are not going to pay me what I am worth or what I am. You know this is my price. Then that's okay. I will spend that time looking for people who will. Right Simple as that, right, right, good topic. Oh my gosh, we could probably go on. We maybe should have part two of the myths. 0:30:55 - Tom Oh, we can do that? 0:30:57 - Anne Yeah, I think we should do that. So, yeah, bosses, tom, thank you again for another amazing real talk with the bosses. We totally appreciate you bosses. Simple mission, big impact. 100 voices, one hour, ten thousand dollars. If you need to know more, or if you want to know more, find out at 100 voices who careorg and join us and big shout out to sponsor IPDTL. Youtube can connect and network like bosses, like Tom and I. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing real week and we'll see you next week. Alright, take care. 0:31:31 - Tom Bye. 0:31:31 - Anne Bye, alright, stopping. Transcribed by https://podium.page  

The stage is set, the mic is on, and the cue is yours. In this episode, stand-up comic and voice actor Tom Sawyer shares his golden nuggets for aspiring voice talents hoping to benefit from the power of comedy. From the importance of having fun in the booth to taking a well-deserved break, and the power of belief in oneself, Tom is a reservoir of invaluable insights. We talk about standing out in a sea of talents, catching the ears of the right casting person, and the art of continuous learning. But remember, feedback is the breakfast of champions, and as Tom says, it's all about enhancing your performance. Get ready, it's showtime! About Tom   Tom Sawyer ran lengendary San Francisco comedy club, Cobb's for over 30 years. After stepping away from the comedy business, Tom was encouraged to explore voice acting by after famed comedian and voice actor Carlos Alazraqui (Rocco’s Modern World, the Taco Bell Chihuahua) who knew Tom was an excellent celebrity impersonator. Tom signed with JE Talent in San Francisco and Aperture Talent in Los Angeles in 2017, and the rest is history. https://kitcaster.com/tom-sawyer/ 0:00:01 - Announcer It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a V-O boss. Now let's welcome your host, Ann Gangusa.  0:00:20 - Anne Hey everyone, welcome to the V-O Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza and today I am super excited to be here with very special guest actor, comedian, entrepreneur oh my God, the list goes on Tom Sawyer. Tom ran the legendary San Francisco Comedy Club Cubs for over 30 years booking legendary greats, and this list just goes on and on, but I'll give you just a few of them Jerry Seinfeld, dana Carvey, Bob Saget, Jim Carrey, Rita Rudner, Joe Rogan, Sarah Silverman and the list just goes on. He stayed on as a booker until 2012 and then ultimately stepped away from the comedy business. After that, he was encouraged to explore voice acting by famed comedian and voice actor Carlos Ellsrocki, a good friend of his. He signed on with JE Talent in San Francisco and Aperture Talent in LA in 2017, and the rest, they say, is history.  But boy, we've got a lot of history I'd like to talk to you about, tom. Thank you so much for joining us and welcome. Thank you for having me. Oh, it's my pleasure. So, gosh, there's so many things I want to start with. I mean the first tell. You have such a large history of comedy, so, of course, I'm sure a very common question you get asked is were you a funny kid, or have you always loved comedy? What is it that drew you to comedy?  0:01:44 - Tom Well, yeah, I was the kid in the back of the class making all the other kids laugh, so that was where I started and I always did impressions. So when I was a kid I was doing Don Adams from Get Smart and Ed Sullivan and Richard Nixon and you know, it's probably a little weird seeing an eight-year-old doing Richard Nixon but that's what I was doing. When I was very young I realized I could do voices and never stopped and that's what kind of led me to voiceover when I got out of the comedy club business.  0:02:15 - Anne But boy, there was a long history of being in the comedy business. I label you as entrepreneur 20 times over because I think just following that passion of yours and then ultimately opening up a club that literally was just famed and just housing some of the comedy greats. Tell me a little bit about that history. I mean, that is just so, so fun and impressive.  0:02:36 - Tom Yeah, actually, I went to San Francisco to become a stand-up comic and there were all these clubs, the Punchline and the Holy City Zoo and the other cafe. They were very packed all the time and getting stage time there was next to impossible. Or you'd get on at one o'clock in the morning in front of a very tired, very small, very drunk audience. And then there was this little.  0:02:55 - Anne Sometimes that helps, I'm not sure Mostly doesn't, oh okay.  0:03:00 - Tom But there was this little club in the Marina District in San Francisco called Cobb's Pub and they were trying to do comedy there and there was no audience, but there was stage time. You could get on stage there. In fact, sometimes you couldn't get off stage because there was no one there to take over, so you had to stretch, stretch and that was terrifying sometimes. Especially if you're the third or fourth comic going, hey, where are you from? And the audience goes we all know where we're from, so stop asking.  0:03:29 - Anne That's so funny. I just wanted to say that a lot of my actor friends I feel like being on that comedy stage is like a rite of passage almost, and it's probably I would think one of the toughest things to do is to stand on stage like that and try to make people laugh. I mean, that's just to me it's comedy without a net. Yeah, exactly.  0:03:48 - Tom And the thing is it's like you're stuck there, literally. You have an allotted time that you have to perform and they give you 10 minutes. You have to do 10 minutes, doesn't matter if it's horrible right from the word jump, you're on stage for those 10 minutes. That's the time you have to do and that's one of the things you learn right away is like if you get on stage early.  you're not going to get back on stage. So you have to go through the rite of passage of bombing, and I've seen comics bomb from Paula Poundstone, kevin Meany, kevin Nealon, the list goes on and on. Every comic has bombed. But even later on you get in front of an audience that just doesn't dig you.  0:04:27 - Anne And again, nowhere to go. You can't run off the stage.  0:04:31 - Tom You're mean, I get that.  0:04:38 - Anne And it's funny because I literally I just went to a comedy club a couple of weeks ago and I was thinking about that, like what do you do? I mean, they are there until the next comedian is called on stage. And it feels interesting as being a part of the audience, because a lot of times I think, as the audience, you are part of maybe not part of the act, but it's very interactive, it's very back and forth and engaging because, of course, you're trying to make us laugh.  0:05:02 - Tom Yeah, you have to communicate to the audience without really engaging the audience, because you're the boss on stage, you're kind of like the crowd master and you're crowd control and entertainment at the same time. And because comedy, some people feel like, oh, I'm going to be as funny as the comic.  0:05:22 - Anne And that's when things get really sideways.  0:05:24 - Tom You're there to be entertained. Sit back, relax and leave the talking or the driving to the person with the microphone.  So you got some stage time on Cobbs and and then I realized that I just kept seeing these shows that weren't very good. The guy who was booking the club at the time wasn't doing a great job, and I was a big fan of stand up as well. So I started thinking about what I would do instead, and then I started telling the owner at the time first owner of Cobbs. I was telling him you know, here's what I would do differently, and then I could tell him at the beginning of the show how the show was going to fail. And then he was started realizing that everything I was saying was happening and he went what do I get to lose? We're doing horrible business. And so he gave me the job of booking and from there I started getting the people I really, really like to perform and it started going great and we went from being like about 20% capacity to 90% capacity in about a year.  0:06:23 - Anne So let me ask you a question that, to me, is very interesting how do you get, at the time, the talents that you booked? I mean, they were big names. Were they big names then? And how did you get them to book? I mean, that's a skill, right? It's something that we do in our businesses every day, right? We've got to try to get clients to like us and to work with us. So how did you do that? Did you have a secret?  0:06:42 - Tom Yeah, my secret was I paid really well.  0:06:45 - Anne Okay, okay, that's a good piece.  0:06:48 - Tom My biggest competition, which was twice the size of our club. We were out paying that Because we decided that the most important thing was getting butts in the chairs and the only way to do that was having acts that actually brought an audience. So the only way to do that was to offer these guys more of an opportunity to make more money. So we would give them a percentage of the door and say, hey, the more people come to see you, the more you're gonna make. And because of that we had people that would call up and go, hey, I'm gonna be on the Tonight Show in six weeks with Johnny Carson, do you have anything open? And I would move stuff around and get them in there and then I would get a Tonight Show plug or a Letterman plug or Arsenio Hall. At the time and that was kind of my thing was I'm gonna pay everybody. Really well, so everybody could. Percentage of the door.  In the early days before all the big agencies came in, sure, and remember this was at a time where there were just like a couple agencies doing personal appearances for comedians. Comedians were pretty much on their own. They were doing their business themselves. So if I wanted Bob Sagan, I'd call Bob Sagan, so I get his number from another comic and everybody was kind of looking for each other and I would bring one comic in. They'd go, hey, you should book these guys. And I go, okay, great, and call them up. And they'd go, right, when can you give them me a date? And I'd give them a date. Plus, we flew people up and we put them up in the hotels. So we didn't personally make a ton of money. That wasn't my thing. My thing was having the best shows I could possibly have and making a name right.  And making a name for the club?  0:08:24 - Anne Absolutely, and that's interesting because, again, I like to talk about the entrepreneurial business side of what we do as creatives and freelancers, and there's a lot of thinking outside the box and also recognizing the value of the talent, that if you wanna put out great work, then you wanna hire a talent that's amazing and great and pay them fairly and absolutely. And so talk to me a little bit about the networking aspect. I mean, the cash is a good draw, but you also had to communicate effectively, I would say, to really book these talent.  0:08:58 - Tom Well, the thing that separated me from everybody else, besides being generous with the money that was brought in, was that I knew what they were going through, no matter what it was going on on stage. If they were dealing with a heckler, I'd gone through that as a comedian. If they were bombing, I knew that pain, so I could empathize with them, I could be their counselor, I could give them advice. I looked at it like I wasn't really a good comedian, and mainly that was because I wasn't true to who I am personally. So my mantra after that was be yourself.  0:09:32 - Anne I love that.  0:09:33 - Tom Yeah, that's who I wasn't. I was trying to fit in and have everybody like me and that really affected the quality of my stand up because I wasn't being true to me. So that was my mantra to everybody be yourself. Because nobody can take that away from you.  0:09:49 - Anne That's so interesting because I never ventured into comedy myself. However, I find that people find me the most funny when I am being my dorky self and I'm making mistakes and I'm just being oops, sorry, and I think in voiceover as well. I wanna talk more about that. I think it's all about being authentic and being yourself and that's really, I think, what connects you to people and engages you to people and endears you to people.  0:10:14 - Tom Yeah, I think it's really important when you get a job, and especially if it's somebody you want to get more bookings from play around, have fun. I mean, I booked a video game and the first thing we did we went through several of the lines I had to do and then we went through all those and I just did just the lines, basically no acting or anything like that and they went. Yep, that's about it. I went great, thank you.  0:10:33 - Anne Love it, love it, bye, bye.  0:10:35 - Tom So everybody started laughing. It loosens everybody up and that's really it's just. Don't be a pain on the ass. Realize that you're always learning. They're always learning. Everybody's a professional too, and so be courteous and nice and smart and be entertaining. You are the talent, so show some talent as a professional as well.  0:10:53 - Anne Show some talent. I love that. So talk about in the transition while booking talent. So you did that for a very long time, I mean 30 years, and so, wow, I mean, was there a point? I mean, were you just so busy for 30 years Did you think about voiceover? Was that a thought in your head or something that you would do, or you just were completely. You loved running the club and booking talent.  0:11:18 - Tom Prior to moving to San Francisco, I lived in Florida, lived in Sarasota, Florida, and I did a lot of theater there.  That's why, I fell in love with theater and acting. You know, I always thought like, oh, stand up might be a good gateway to getting into acting, but then I got into the business end of it. So I didn't really think about it until I got out and I didn't know what I was gonna do. And I was talking to Carlos and he said dude, you do so many voices and stuff. You'd be great at voice acting.  Cause I've always done impressions, never stopped doing impressions. In fact I would teach other people like Kevin Pollack or something, if they had an oppression and they couldn't figure it quite out. They were doing it but they weren't quite right. We'd kind of jam and help them get there, or they would help me get there and we'd all do our really weird outside the box impersonations. You'd have to spend five minutes explaining who that guy is Right right right.  0:12:07 - Anne So you can't do that one.  0:12:09 - Tom But for comics, we love doing those, especially impersonators, impressionists, we love doing those for other impersonators. It was kind of like our jazz moment, you know, where you get to jam behind the scenes with another musician.  0:12:20 - Anne Absolutely.  0:12:21 - Tom So Frank Calliendo, I had the club, and Dana Carvey, of course, was the master of the not perfect impression, but getting the perfect funny it didn't matter, that's what his genius is. Bye, you know, is finding the perfect funny to any voice. And then Tom Kenny played. The club started at Cobbs as well Again, the guy who did so many crazy voices. It was another inspiration for me to move there, and every once in a while I talked to him, cause I'll get a audition for something that I know is directing or in, so I go heads up and he's going dude.  I have nothing to do with casting, you know sometimes they cast people and I'm scratching my head. So yeah, but I'll put in a good word for you.  0:12:58 - Anne So Well, hey again, networking totally helps. Now comedy skill. I think comedy is a skill and art form. What are your thoughts on that?  0:13:07 - Tom I mean cause, oh, absolutely.  0:13:08 - Anne Yeah, it's not something that I can go on a stage and execute.  0:13:11 - Tom Yeah, it's like anything else I personally believe.  my philosophy is we all have a gift somewhere along the line. We might not be in a position ever to know what that gift is, but we all have a gift and sometimes there are people out there have more than a couple fair, but there's also people who just don't ever find theirs. And I think that the idea is you know to try to discover who you are and your strengths, weaknesses. Stay away from those weaknesses and hurdle towards your strengths, you know, and don't get locked up into one thing to always be on the road to discovery.  0:13:42 - Anne I guess I want to ask you first of all about once you got into voice acting and then was it like you were always wanting to book a certain genre because you've had lots of characters inside of you that wanted to come out? Or did you find any of the genres outside of character Interesting, because I'm a believer that you're a character in just about everything you do, even if you're doing e-learning.  0:14:05 - Tom Yeah, I always try to find a person, even when it's just one of those hey, you're a dad, or hey, you're a regular guy. Or I just had an audition yesterday where you're just a regular father, you know it's regular. But the line said something else, you know. So I gave one as what they were saying and then one. That's what I felt the lines were doing. It was a subtle difference, but it was a difference that maybe whoever put this together wants to see. If somebody figured it out, or they didn't know that's where they were going and they don't know. Sometimes they don't even know until they hear it.  So give them what you think they want, and then give them what they say they want.  0:14:39 - Anne So interesting. I guess I would talk to you then about writing right, especially now that you've transitioned in voice acting and you're given a script right, or you're given an audition and finding the humor. Sometimes there's subtleties in that humor, sometimes it's obvious. Are there telltale signs to look out for? And then, once you do see it, is there a specific way that you feel it should be performed? Should it be performed in the obvious way? Or maybe, if you wanna capture the ear of the casting director, you do something different?  0:15:08 - Tom Well, I think you know what you do with a couple takes is you do the one that's on the page and then you do the one that where you think they go or where you can go with it to show what you can bring to the party. I always like to find the humor in something, especially if it says it's humorous, you know, and then play around with it and add a little bit, do a little improv with it, find a little spontaneity into there, or sometimes I'll even rewrite a line, cause I think it's kind of like flat, so I'll make it a little funnier. A punchier.  0:15:36 - Anne Okay, now that gives me a segue into a question In terms of with the script, in terms of improv right For an audition, are you improving in the audition and or improving the line, and at what point do you feel that people may go too far if you're completely rewriting, or do you think that's offensive maybe?  0:15:54 - Tom I think you have to be pretty subtle in rewriting. I think you do run the risk of people going why do I bother sending you a script? Cause you're adding all this stuff to it. So you pick and choose your moments. You know I've done that before, I've added jokes. But I'll listen to it again and go okay, that's a little too much. Plus, I want to have them. I don't want the person thinking after the third one, is he gonna go back to the script or what you know. So I wanna pick and choose my moments and make sure that I think of the funniest, the ones that have the most oomph. You want them to land, and so era on the side of too few than too many.  0:16:33 - Anne Let's talk about character development for you, especially because you're an impressionist. So how can you take, let's say, and you don't necessarily wanna have a character that's just after a particular person, but you wanna develop it into your own character. Is there a formula or a process for that, in terms of developing new characters?  0:16:51 - Tom Well, I have a book of all the impersonations I do, well, a book with the impersonations I do. And then I have like one that's like the ones I do pretty right on, and the ones I do that are just kind of soft. I don't really have it down, but that's great because it's a character.  0:17:07 - Anne Do you have a number for that? Somebody wants to have how many characters in their arsenal, how many to build off of.  0:17:13 - Tom Every day that I can figure out how to do a different celebrity or something like that. I write it down in the book Cause it comes to you sometimes. I mean, when I figured out how to do Robin Williams, it just was an accident. It's one of those things where you find a word and all of a sudden. Then you find a place in your throat and you're doing it and you can't stop.  0:17:32 - Anne It's crazy so it just never stops. I love it, I love it.  0:17:37 - Tom So one day I did Robin for Robin and that didn't go so well, apparently I didn't know he doesn't like his voice, apparently being impersonated. You didn't like that. No, it's really a very awkward Cause. I thought it'd be a lot of fun.  0:17:50 - Anne Yeah, and that's interesting because I'm curious about that. You know, celebrities like their voices impersonated, or now we've got a whole another, a whole another digital thing to be thinking about, when voices might be impersonated or turned into right With synthetic voices. But that might be another podcast.  0:18:10 - Tom That's a little scary.  0:18:11 - Anne That's a scary one, absolutely.  0:18:13 - Tom The thing about it is is like the flaws, like, let's say, go back to Dana Carvey, cause again there aren't many that he does right on, he'll leave me be the first to admit it. He's not like somebody like Frank Caliendo, who's just like amazing. He's verbatim, you can hear the voice. He's somebody who can do a sound alike. Dana could never do a sound alike, but he gets people's caricature down. That's the thing is it's like, and that's kind of what makes it funny is the imperfections is going up, finding those words.  I just, you know, I used to do Bruce Stern and a lot of people kind of forgot who he was, and then one day I just was doing it for somebody to just start laughing Cause they didn't even remember who that Bruce Stern was. But it's just his voice is funny, you know, cause he has a kind of voice like that and it's very inquisitive either. Everything goes up at the end Doesn't make a darn gosh darn bit of difference, and not sometimes he gets crazy. But and so you find those little imperfections actually make a character and make it really funny. That's what I like to do. You know, I did a animation pilot and it was like a hippie character and I was going through a bunch of voices with a writer cause they booked me and they didn't feel like they wanted to do something different with it. They said what can you do? And I was going through my book and I started doing Nick Nolte and they loved it and then you ended up going with that over what they originally had, with me doing it.  0:19:37 - Anne So I love how you have a book with everything written down. Now, do you also have audio files that go along with that, so that you can help yourself get into words?  0:19:45 - Tom Yeah, I have one where it's all my impressions, so that way I can go back. And how do I do that? One Cause I don't practice them all the time. Cause.  0:19:54 - Anne I have life.  0:19:55 - Tom So, and I don't want to be walking around talking to myself, of course, of course. Man, it's got so many voices.  0:20:00 - Anne So are you writing down then the name and then you write down the qualities of the characteristics or how you get into it. Is it a kick phrase? Maybe that gets you into the character.  0:20:10 - Tom Well, there's certain words, for example, you know, I came up with for Christopher Walk and I came up with the word pantaloon being the perfect Christopher Walken word. I'm thinking cowbell but that's yeah, cause. Well, that's, this is before cowbell yeah, before cowbell.  0:20:26 - Anne But pantaloon automatically gets me there. I love it. I love it Cause I say it.  0:20:33 - Tom I can't help but do more. Christopher Walken, who doesn't like a nice pair of pantaloons?  0:20:43 - Anne I love it. I love it.  0:20:44 - Tom Cause you want your calves exposed. So yeah, and then with Kurt Douglas, it was horse, oh Horse, okay, I'm going to read my horse. If I say horse, I go into Kurt Douglas Well.  0:21:01 - Anne I think there's something always so obviously so entertaining, but something that just draws people to comedy. What are your thoughts about this crazy, chaotic world that we live in today, and where does comedy sit now, I mean, in terms of how important is it?  0:21:17 - Tom I think comedy is as important as it ever was. And it's in a weird place right now, cause I think a lot of people are reacting to people saying words and there's a lot of people getting offended easily and comedy is not for those folks that have thin skin, both sides of it.  I find it funny that I think a lot of comics right now have thin skin as far as getting some criticism back, cause it's also about growth. What was funny in 1970, if you listened to comedy in 1970 or the 80s, it's not as funny now. In some of it's just not funny at all. We grow, we expand, we move on, and to me, that's what's great about comedy is it's about adapting. You're always adapting. You're always growing, as you should be as a person. So to me, if you're moving the ball forward constantly in your life, you're gonna be a better person than you were 10 years ago. So why not take that to comedy? Absolutely, the things that were funny like 15, 20 years ago are real cringy right now, and it's not because they weren't funny back then. They were. It's the same reason I get upset with people who go back like 20 years and go. I can't believe you said that back then.  0:22:28 - Anne Well, back then that wasn't offensive.  0:22:30 - Tom Exactly, we didn't find that offensive back then. Now we've all grown up and we've all moved on a bit and we understand that's not the same. But don't punish me for something that was okay Back then. Mark Twain, who wrote a famous book about a guy named Tom Sawyer, had a lot of cringy stuff in his books. There's still masterworks of literature, but those were the times. We have to accept. That's where those books came and there were a reflection of those times. Same way we would stand up. So to me it's just about. Everybody just needs to grow up. Everybody needs to understand where everybody was back then and where they are now and be better for them.  0:23:06 - Anne Yeah, yeah. Do you find that you miss owning a comedy club or booking talent or having that in your life?  0:23:12 - Tom I miss working with young comics. That's the thing I miss the most and it was actually when I started. The last version of Cubs when it exists now, because it's a 400-seat room has really amazing acts, but they're much bigger acts and they generally bring their own acts with them, and comedians who can bring their own acts generally don't bring really really great acts because they don't want to have to work as hard. I would make comics work hard because I would have really good acts going on before them.  Sure, so they have to try to continually stand tall, so they had to keep their game. My thing was like Interesting strategy. I like that yeah yeah, absolutely Nobody could coast. And then later on it was comics they would bring in.  I didn't think they were as talented as some of the people I could book with these guys, and so I wasn't really working with the comics anymore as much as I used to, and so that's one of the things about smaller room is you can get to work with younger comics and you get to tell them the dos and the don'ts and hopefully guide them to a path where they can be their best selves on stage. Sure, that part I miss.  0:24:14 - Anne And actually, speaking of that, what sort of advice would you give to voice talent out there that want to continually up their game and stay on top of the voiceover game, because, boy, it's competitive out there, super competitive.  0:24:27 - Tom It's crazy, it's crazy.  0:24:29 - Anne Like just as I'm sure it was in comedy and being in the club. It's such a mental game a lot of the times too.  0:24:34 - Tom Yeah, the nice thing about voiceover having been a stage actor very early in my life is you don't see the person who you're auditioning for, so you don't see that look, as soon as you hit the stage, that you've already lost your audition. You're not the person they're looking for, and that's so disheartening sometimes so at least you go into every audition with this could?  0:24:56 - Anne be the one.  0:24:57 - Tom And I love auditioning, so I love going into another character or finding something I haven't found before, or even sometimes there's a couple of characters I do that I think, oh man, this one is definitely gonna find a home someplace. It's just a matter of getting in front of the right casting person hearing it. So I'll bring out those guys every now and then, when it's the right opportunity for those characters, cause they're like they're my buddies. I want them to succeed. Yeah, I think just have fun in the booth is the main thing, and if you need to take a break, tell your agent I need to take a break. I mean, I talked to other voice actors and it gets a little depressing. Everybody came in this business thinking that everybody always said I should be in voice acting and everybody always said this is what I should be doing and I did it and nothing's happening.  0:25:43 - Anne Yeah, what's your advice for that? Because that becomes like a mind game. It becomes like oh my God, I've done all this work, what else can I do? I mean, what would you suggest in terms of getting work? It seems like the question I get most often as a coach is like so all right, I've got this great demo now and had this great coaching, and so now, where's the work? How do I get the work? Or how do I stand out?  0:26:04 - Tom I think the thing about it is acting as a lottery. You're buying a lottery ticket is what you're doing. I mean, carlos Alice Rocky was a comic Lucky, had a job, state entertainment state creative, but it was getting the Taco Bell, chihuahua and all those people you auditioned from and he hit it, hit the lottery, you know so, and from there he's done so many other things. But when I say who Carlos Alice Rocky is, when I bring him up, I always go the Taco Bell, chihuahua guy and they go oh, I love that. So it's the same thing where you just go, my lottery ticket is gonna come and you're gonna believe in yourself.  When you believe in your talent and talk to other people in the business too. Just do classes I think it's still a good idea to do, just as even a workout session. Plus, you get some inspiration from other people who have a different style, maybe that you see something in yourself or you bring out something in yourself you didn't know was there. So I would say, take a class every now and then network with other people who just to have support, just so, hey, I'm here for you when you're down on yourself, in the same way that if I need somebody to talk to and say, hey, I'm really kind of wondering what the hell I'm doing here.  And they can talk you down from being sad or lift your spirits up and let you know you're really a talented person. That's why you got into this whole thing in the first place.  0:27:16 - Anne Yeah, I think that self-sabotage can happen to the best of us even.  0:27:20 - Tom And then sometimes you'll hear it in the reads. I mean, again, I'll go into a class and you can tell the person who's been beat down on pretty bad by themselves, mostly Cause do you have an agent? Yeah, do you have a demo? Yeah, well, you're doing all the right things and I think it's good to have an agent or two that are giving you good feedback or giving you feedback.  0:27:40 - Anne I was with an agency that way too many people.  0:27:43 - Tom The poop sticks agency you have 400 people that they represent and you just go. That's too many. I don't feel special when you're just going okay.  You got a demo, you're in. So I think, being with a smaller agency, that's a little more hands-on. Both my agents give me feedback every time, even if it's just a nice job. Yeah, and because of that I feel like I'm better for it, because I already know if I see a script, I know exactly what kind of read in the ballpark I need to be, so that's what I'm gonna get back. I'm at the point now where I really get back oh, you need to do this, this is too much, and something like that. So it's always I recognize what I'm working with right away. I do it, get it out, get the feedback, forget about it.  0:28:26 - Anne That's what you gotta do. I think a lot of people really crave feedback in this industry because we are just in our studios, kind of just talking into our little four padded walls, and so a lot of times it's hard when you don't get feedback and it's interesting.  0:28:40 - Tom Yeah, especially if you don't have a partner in a relationship, you know where you can at least go hey, honey, what do you think of this?  0:28:47 - Anne Yeah, you can bounce it off.  0:28:48 - Tom I don't bother my wife with everything, but every once in a while, you know, I go. You know, what do you think of this? Or she'll hear me and she'll go. I need to hear the whole thing. She'll hear me in my booth screaming, you know. And then now she has to hear all the stuff I did in that character.  0:29:04 - Anne I love what you said about well, at least when you're in front of a stage, I can, you can get that reaction from the audience. You know that, if you've bombed or not already, and the fact that when you're in your studio you actually use the fact that you're not in front of an audience as a creative kind of positive outlook, that you can be creative and not have to face that which is so interesting from, let's say, somebody that doesn't necessarily or hasn't started from being on stage. They might've worked a corporate job and now all of a sudden they're getting into character acting, and so they don't have that perspective. So I really like that perspective of taking the challenge and I think the creativity has to be in your brain, your imagination. You have to imagine that character in that scene, which is so difficult for some people. Do you have any tips on how to really create a scene realistically while you're sitting here in your studio?  0:29:53 - Tom Yeah, I think the most important thing, especially when you get those video games where it's like one line, one line, one line, one line, five, one lines and they're like hey, don't touch that rock and you're going. How are these people going to book somebody based on five lines that are no more than 10 words for the longest one?  and you're going, how am I gonna stand out in front of anybody? So you gotta kind of create a scene around those and those. I generally will write a bigger scene for the line and then because I'll have the line in there and I'll make sure that it doesn't bleed into the other words that I'm saying, but that gives me a little bit more emotional pop for that line.  0:30:35 - Anne Are you developing the characters that you're interacting with as well?  0:30:38 - Tom I know who I'm talking to. Yeah, so I might not have the character fully developed, but I know who I'm talking to.  0:30:44 - Anne Right, and what's happening in that scene? And what's happening, yeah, and you actually write that down.  0:30:48 - Tom I'll go on Word, I'll cut and paste the lines and then I'll put words around the line and highlight the line that is actually in it. So I have all the other words and a highlighted line to make sure I hit that one. But I know what's going on and I try to create more around it.  0:31:05 - Anne So how long would you say do you spend, let's say, analyzing and doing all that work? How long would you say you take for an audition to kind of do that creating the scene and writing that down before you go in and record?  0:31:17 - Tom It depends on my schedule and what I have to do and also how much I think something is really in my wheelhouse. I mean there's things you get where it's like I knock it out in 10 minutes because I really have a solid idea of what I'm gonna do with it and I go and do it and I listen to. It sounds good. With characters, though, with video games and animation, I really like to do as much as I possibly can. I remember I did this video game audition where the character was cockney. I called my dialect coach and we went through the whole thing together.  It was like a class for me. I thought this was a good opportunity to have a little class on doing a cockney accent and I said can I book our session with you? And we just worked on the script I was auditioning for because I really I loved it and I really wanted to nail it and, regardless, I got a class out of it. So it did two things for me helped me learn, and I put that learning to immediate use.  0:32:11 - Anne Absolutely absolutely.  0:32:13 - Tom And again, that's a really good thing to do is have a network of people, find a good dialect coach, find people that are teachers or coaches that you can work with, that you can go to and use them when you need, when you're stuck or when you just need something. Had a Pixar audition that I did and the character was obviously somebody from Eastern Europe and I had a friend who's from Ukraine and we went through the script and she helped me with some of the pronunciations and I didn't book it but I really felt confident sending it in.  0:32:45 - Anne I really felt like I nailed it Exactly. I love that because you've gotten the worth out of it, whether you booked it or not. So that's the other thing. So when you really are excited about something and you do all that work and you feel like you nailed the audition, but then you didn't book it, thoughts on how to stop that from getting you all upset and, oh my God, that's it.  0:33:03 - Tom Well, it's sort of like you still have to go. This is out of my control. I have no idea what the other person at the other end is going through what they've got in front of them. If they end up going with somebody that they've already booked for something and they can give them another character because union rules and it's like you did a really good job, maybe even better than that person but they're already booked and they don't have to pay another person to do that voice. They can do up to three voices and not get a penny more. So they go. Let's just give them that, so you don't know all the little things that transpire for somebody to get that part over you.  0:33:35 - Anne Yeah, and I think it's important for people to understand that it doesn't necessarily reflect on a poor performance or a poor audition.  0:33:42 - Tom No, my agent is a very funny woman and my auditions who I'm getting in front of have escalated. I'm doing more Disney Pixar auditions and stuff like that and she just goes. You're feeling upwardly.  0:33:53 - Anne There you go. I love that.  0:33:56 - Tom Which I thought was hilarious, because we always think we're failing. We're not. We're all doing the best we can and we're all doing great auditions. But because I'm doing so well in my auditions, other casting people are getting interested, so I am getting in front of people that I didn't get in front of, like four or five years ago.  0:34:12 - Anne Awesome, that's awesome. So even if you don't book the job, you could be making an impression on someone that can get you maybe the next job or the job after that.  0:34:21 - Tom That's the idea. They go well.  I really like that because you don't know, when I was booking COBS I would get DVDs and before that VHSs of comedians from around the country. We were very well known so I would get them from New York, boston, other parts of the country and they'd just pile up on my desk because it was excruciating for me at some times. So then at one point, when they were ready to fall over, I would just start watching them. In the beginning I would watch two or three minutes of somebody. Then it came down to just 30 seconds to a minute, because you know right away and that's how I'm sure it is for casting people.  0:34:56 - Anne You know right away if there's talent or if they were gonna be bookable absolutely or if they're right or wrong.  0:35:01 - Tom You might like them and you might wanna listen to the whole thing and you would go ah, they're just not quite right. I need a little bit of a younger voice. This is obviously somebody who's an older voice and I think it's really. I mean, I try to do what I can and have as much fun as I can, because there's gonna be probably 10 years down the road where this voice isn't gonna sound the same and I'll be doing grandpas and wizards.  0:35:22 - Anne So yeah, our voices do change as they age. I have experienced that myself. I certainly sound a whole lot different than I did 10 years ago. Well, well, this has been an amazing discussion, Tom. I so appreciate you taking the time and just dropping all these wonderful tips and tricks and words of wisdom for the boss listeners out there.  0:35:45 - Tom Yeah, yeah, have fun kids. That's the message.  0:35:47 - Anne There you go. I love that. So, bosses, I want you to take a moment and imagine a world full of passionate and powered, diverse individuals giving collectively and intentionally to create the world that they wanna see. You can make a difference. Find out more at 100voiceshoocareorg. And a big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can network and connect with amazing people like Tom. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.  0:36:18 - Outro Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Ann Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.  Transcribed by https://podium.page  

In a world dominated by templates and a constant push for efficiency, Anne and Lau are serving up a fresh perspective on using creativity for business success. In this episode, The Bosses dissect the art of brainstorming, the power of accountability groups, and the role of improvisation in expanding your horizon of creative thinking. Hear about our unique take on how a business coach can help you conceive novel ways to stimulate business growth. Anne and Lau also break down the process of taking a raw idea and creating a tangible vision for it through research and education. 0:00:01 - Intro It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  0:00:20 - Anne Hey, hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am here today with the lovely and most talented Law Lapides. Hey everyone, ah, law, it's a wonderful day today. A wonderful day today. It is. Yeah, I am feeling a creative spark in the air Law.  0:00:43 - Lau I felt that too. I wonder if it's change of season or with the new fall rush coming on, I don't know. There's a little mixed with vacation-ish August. We've got that spark going on. I feel it too, Anne.  0:00:56 - Anne And you know what? I just got together. As you know, we just got together with a bunch of creatives and there's nothing to help spur your creativity rather than being with more creatives. Right, I think we should talk about ways to expand your creativity, because expanding your creativity is going to help you in the booth, it's going to help you create your characters, bring something new to the table and just, I think, get a lot of fulfillment and joy out of what you do, as long as you can find the creative angle. And I'll tell you what I get so many people that want to come into the voiceover industry because they say I'm creative and I don't feel like I'm able to express that creativity. And I'm always of the belief that, no matter where you are, you can find your creativity. You just have to sometimes be a little more, maybe, resourceful than at other times, but I always feel as though you can express creativity or expand your creativity by just digging in a little deeper and thinking a little bit outside the box.  0:01:57 - Lau Absolutely. And why do they call us creatives? We're creatives because we create. We love creating. We should be creative at all times, even if we're resting or on vacation. There's all different ways we can be creative, whether you're trying a new food or a new restaurant, or you're going down a new street to look at architecture. How are we expressing our creativity in our worlds that then we take into the booth and in the studio and in the office. That directly informs the kind of business and the kind of process that we create. And you know what's funny? One of my pet peeves was you know, when you get asked on a forum what are your hobbies? What do you like to do? I don't know. I don't know how to answer that. I don't consider myself having hobbies and yet I'm a very creative force and love doing a lot of things. I just never categorize it as a hobby. I always feel like it's integrated with my identity and who I am.  0:02:55 - Anne Yeah, and it's integrated on what you do on a daily basis. And I'll tell you one area where I think that expanding your creativity or knowing how to delve deep into that part of you will help is that I have many students where you know I'm teaching acting for long form narration and a lot of times, long form narration doesn't have an obvious story to it. So I will oftentimes and I know you'll do this as well for your actors You'll tell them to create that scene, and we are constantly needing to create a scene, and I can't tell you the amount of times that I've had students say, well, that doesn't make any sense, I don't, I can't know. And I'll say give me the scene, what are you doing? What's the conversation? And they'll just be like well, this is hard.  Well, your creative brain is a muscle, guys, and so I truly believe that you can exercise that muscle on a day to day basis and you can come up with scenes.  You can come up with things that will allow your voiceovers to be believable and authentic and really relate to your audience that you're talking to. So one of the things that I like to do to delve deep into my creativity is I used to have this little jar where I had all these little creative ideas and it didn't have to be creative ideas for voiceover, although I think I could tailor it to that right and you would pick one idea out of the jar and it'll say create a character that is based on your favorite aunt or uncle and record a five minute monologue. Okay and so right there, it really requires you to delve deep in and focus and focus. I think focus is one of the most important things to really start to dig deep and find where your creativity is and to think about all the possible ways. Law what are some tips you have for delving deep into that creativity?  0:04:43 - Lau Ooh, what a good question. And it's like if we can make it a real thing, a technique, a process, then we could be more mindful, potentially, of doing it every day to help balance our health and our mind and our body and everything. I think that's fantastic. I would give one tip and I would say that mindfulness is something that you have to structure. So I think people think, oh, it's an aesthetic and it's sort of impulse or knee-jerk reaction.  When I think of it, I do it, but really I feel like the strategy and the structure comes, the habit that you do over time and then goes from creative technique into a business strategy. So, even if it's a small thing, like every day, I wake up and I mindfully do a brain dump and I do it on paper, I speak it out loud to empty my brain. To me that's a very creative thing to do, because I could not only feel better and feel more neutralized, but I also may make discoveries about what's in my head that I didn't actually realize was there. It's subconscious stuff that's kind of rolling out and I find that very useful. Especially you and I are idea people. We're like advertising agency people, like we have to come up with ideas just like that, whether it's for a script or a delivery that helps come up with ideas.  0:06:04 - Anne I love that you segwayed so lovely into that, because I was gonna say you have to have an end goal in mind, right? I also used to scrapbook and that was one of my passions. And I say I used to, I feel bad because I really want to scrapbook. Still.  Other things started taking up my time, but it used to be that I would see a picture of a scrapbook page that I thought was gorgeous and it was just a layout and I said, oh, and it was a layout of, let's say, the first date with my husband or the wedding, or it could be my hobby, where I used to ride horses, and so it would be maybe a page or a layout that I saw about that, and it would be a creative spark and that would allow me to go and delve deep into like, okay, let me go find my pictures, let me go write something about that, because in scrapbooking it's very much about journaling and one thing that I love the most about scrapbooking and I know things have gone digital, but I'll tell you what there's nothing like looking at a paper scrapbook and just thumbing through those pages of memories, looking at pictures and reading, and I absolutely it was going to capture those memories and I love just looking back on that. And so I still believe that there's something to the writing it down on a piece of paper and having something tactile that you can touch and feel, and I think the end goal can be something to start with and then kind of work backwards to think about how are you going to reach that end goal? So, perhaps in voiceover, maybe you want to create a new character, right, and your new character would be maybe some like give it a characteristic, right, you want to have that funny, dorky character? Well, okay, work backwards from that, okay. And so who is it in your life that's funny and dorky? What do they say all the time? Write that down. Those could be funny lines that you could then practice and just really shape your character to that. I think that's one good way to do that, and I love your brain dump in the beginning in the early morning, because that's great, just getting all that stuff out and then maybe setting a long-term goal for your creative Like creativity can also be. It doesn't just have to be let me create a character voice.  Creative is let me get better at telling stories. So how am I going to develop my creative style to be able to tell stories better? And I want to be able to tell stories better on, let's say, really dry material. Well, I got lots of that for you because I do tons of long format narration. I can help you with that. Just go find some really dry material out there and let's figure out what's the storyline, figure out how to break it down. And again, I think number one is have that end goal. Number two is educate. Gosh, I'm such an educator, right, I mean I love education. I think along the way, if you can educate yourself. You can certainly Google storytelling, key steps for storytelling, and you can also work with someone as well to help you develop key steps for storytelling. But educating yourself like that, I think there's just nothing that can beat that.  0:08:53 - Lau You know. It's so true. When you get it down on paper, there's something that becomes real about it. To get it out of your head and do, the process of writing it down or typing it out becomes real, and then even speaking it to someone becomes even more real. Before you manifest these ideas as actual events, I'm gonna give a tip too, and I'm gonna call it alchemy.  So I always feel like what we do in our craft and in our art and in our businesses as bosses is create alchemy and meaning taking nothing and creating something out of it. Unlike a magician, which I always think of magic as something where we're making something disappear or removing something or we have an illusion going on. This is a little bit different. I think of this almost more scientifically, like nothing is there and then all of a sudden, something is there and it's very real and you did it and you manifested it so creatively. Do anything you can do where nothing is there and then you create something.  So, for instance, take a blank canvas, create a visual, take clay and then create something out of the clay. Or take a seed and plant it and then there's a flower, so that you can manifest the idea that my ideas may not all come true, they may not all manifest, but because they're there and they're present and I'm allowing them to come out into the world that there is a chance that alchemy can happen from that process. And that's that risk that we talk about, that's that falling off the cliff and saying, oh, sometimes things actually happen and are created out of process. So, creatively speaking, I think that's a tremendous hobby, if you will, to just practice that, practice creating something out of absolutely nothing. And now where?  0:10:40 - Anne do you go for ideas? That's a good question, right, gosh. I just say the internet is at your disposal, right? And also other creatives, right? Other creatives doing brainstorm sessions, you know those accountability groups. I mean I say take five, 10 minutes and talk about, hey, what can we do to expand creatively? And there's lots of things that can help you to expand creatively too. That's within the realm of voiceover. One of the biggest I can think of right now is improv. Right, improv is creative. Take a conversation and go with it and run with it.  0:11:10 - Lau That's the best of Alchemy, actually. Yes.  0:11:12 - Anne Exactly and just create that, but I think also getting together in brainstorming. I do have a business coach that I have had for the past gosh 12 years and I absolutely love my business coach and we brainstorm, we brainstorm. Once a month we have a session where we brainstorm and we say where is it that Anne wants her business to go? But that is a creative brainstorm and what can we do? And I'm constantly evolving. I think we had an episode on either parallel streams of income or what is your plan B, right? You should always have that backup plan. And so what else will you do to grow your business right? And that's a very creative endeavor. And for me, I'm going to tell you that the VO Peeps and the VO Boss podcast the very podcast that you're listening to, bosses was a creative endeavor because one of the things I saw was an end goal of like, oh, a podcast that sounds really cool, I wanna do that.  And then I took that one idea. That was really nothing and I had said, okay, now what do I have to do? What are the steps that I have to take in order to create that right? And the first step was what's the vision for it? What is it that I wanna do, or what is it that I want to conceive and will other people and it doesn't always have to benefit other people, but for me, I wanted it to be a resource. So that was within the realm of my project scoped. Okay, I want this to be an educational resource. Now, how am I gonna get there? Right, what am I gonna do?  Well, first step started brainstorming it with somebody and then educating myself on the process, and I did that a lot. When, as a scrapbooker as well, right, I saw a scrapbook page with paper flowers and I'm like I should be able to make paper flowers, like there are some really beautiful paper flowers out there. Right, there's techniques, there's things that you can do, there's all different patterns and kinds of paper and techniques, and you can crumple the paper first and then you can put layers of that with a different pattern paper. It's amazing, and I think, even if you're doing creative things that don't have to do with voiceover or don't have to do with your business, they will absolutely, number one, bring you joy if creativity is what you are seemingly lacking in your life, but it can also open your mind to doing things to propel yourself forward personally and professionally.  0:13:26 - Lau Ooh, I love that. So you're really looking the fine details, the really small little minutiae in what you're doing, rather than just the big task of it. But look at the little moments that happen, that really are like sliding doors. They really change the trajectory of where your piece or art or business is going to go based on those little tiny details. I think that that is phenomenal. I would even motivate people to be very visceral and very kinesthetic about it every day, meaning don't stay online, go outside, do something outside, like I love to go into a little bookstore and see what's in there that inspires me, that makes me excited or happy, or go get a massage or go to a movie or go I've been bike riding lately and outside Go shop yeah.  I don't know. Do something that's physical and visceral bike riding, walking, whatever you're doing. Go to a restaurant, go to a diner, go sit and have french fries so that you can really observe people, look at human behavior, watch the servers smell the cooking, feel the table, and it sounds insane. But it's like we forget how to do that when we're inside too long and we're locked in too long. And that is my hobby. That is like my hobby.  0:14:45 - Anne I love that. People, people, people. Can I just reiterate people. And again, because Law-U and I just came back from a conference gosh, being around other creative people, just soaking up the energy. Not even you don't even have to be discussing things that are creative, you just have to be around other people that have that creative energy and observe them and see what they're doing and then be inspired by them and be motivated. So be open to that instead of let's say maybe I don't know, being at a conference and being I don't know like sad or feeling bad about yourself or not feeling like you're enough. I went and saw the Barbie movie, that kind of a thing.  I actually always thought that for me, creatively watching wonderful media, great movies, listening to great music was always such a wonderful experience to bring out the creativity in me and to relax me, to get me thinking, to get me outside of myself, because sometimes we're so stuck inside ourselves that we cannot get out of it. And I'm gonna say this for those people who say I am so miserable in my job Okay, I get it. If you're maybe miserable in a situation where maybe you've got people around you, that it can become toxic. You're not happy, you're bored, whatever that is, I think that there's always a way in your mind creatively to get out of it, okay. So here I'm gonna get a little bit philosophical. Maybe I was the youngest child and I had three brothers and one of the things was because obviously I couldn't share a room, right, I was on my own quite a bit and my brothers would do off doing their things, having fun and doing their brother things, and I would very much, a lot of the time, be alone playing by myself. And that play time right, playtime guys, we should have playtime even as adults right, that playtime allowed me to be creative. And of course now I'm thinking of the Barbie, that I would play with my Barbies and I would play with lots of toys. I did all sorts of things with my imagination to create scenes. So it's absolutely in every one of us. I think we just have to revisit and give ourselves some time so that we can have that time for ourselves. And if you're miserable in your job, I think there's always a way to find a part of your job that you can become creative in. I say that I mean I worked gosh, I was in a couple of different industries, right, I was an educator.  I loved being an educator number one because I loved learning. Learning meant that nothing was ever the same and I was able to educate. But also, in that way, I was creative. Right, I was creating classes. If I thought this was a really cool technique, I would create a class and I would teach someone. When I worked in the medical industry, you know, I was an engineer, I was trying to solve problems, and when I worked in technology and networking, I was trying to solve problems that people had, or create something so that people wouldn't experience the problems that I did. I mean, one of the reasons I created the VO Boss Blast was because I didn't have time to do a ton of auditions and I wanted to be able to direct market, and so I said I need something where I can just put my name out there to the people who might be able to hire me. And so I created the Boss Blast for myself initially, and then I said, oh my gosh, wouldn't it be great to be able to share this Boom yes, there you go.  0:18:08 - Lau In essence, you're satisfying your needs as a business owner while satisfying others' needs. Is that not perfect? I think that's a perfect alchemy right there, and a whole bunch of stuff came to my head, like go bowling, play games, collect shells on the beach, like, do stuff, do stuff, do stuff. Not only will you find what feels good and meditative and right for you, but you're really gonna make these discoveries that you can't necessarily make sitting in your room or sitting in your booth. It really is about your environment. How are you reacting to your environment and how are you informed by your environment? I know I love to dance, like I was at this conference with you, annie, and I was up half the night dancing and I couldn't move the next day because you know like my hip and my this.  0:18:57 - Anne I was insane.  0:18:58 - Lau I was a crazy person.  0:18:59 - Anne I saw you and I thought oh my God, look at her go. I loved it. I know People are like do ages dance. It made me so happy, Lau. I meant to tell you that and I was like look at her, go. She's having such a good time, and I think everyone on the dance floor that night right, it was just expressing themselves, having a good time letting go, and, again, that's something that can really help spark your creativity.  0:19:22 - Lau Yes, and there's an honesty about it, there's a purity about it. There isn't a motivation in it that we all have to do this or think this or say this, or there isn't like that we have in business, because ultimately we're trying to please the client and give them what they need. This is really not only for yourself internally, but it is for your community as well, so it satisfies both needs. And sometimes you know who your community is and sometimes it's just the world and you don't know who the community is. And it's important, I think, to relate easily and fluidly with all of that to then bring that realness to the script and bring that familiarity and authenticity to your scripts, because you've had a lot of these sensory experiences, sure you know just for yourself.  0:20:09 - Anne I think a lot of it is the creative in your brain, but it's the creative outlet as well, right, and I say outlet because that means you've got to let it out. Right, it's in your head, it's floating around. You're either gonna let it out by writing it down, by talking to someone about it, by creating something like a piece of music or a beautiful piece of art, and that is the outlet, that is the expression of creativity and that, I think, is the step that's going to come back and really give you that sense of satisfaction, fulfillment, joy, and just make sure that it gets out. I have all sorts of ideas floating around in my head. I love that. I like to think, well, okay, I've got these great ideas, now how am I going to execute that idea? Right, and again, that comes to writing it down, maybe setting a goal, working backwards from that, creating that list of things that you wanna do, talking about it to people, letting yourself go and allow yourself to be free from other garbage that's in and out of your brain. That can be bitterness, tiredness, anger, anything that's not bringing you joy. However, you release that.  Again I go on a bike ride. It's really done wonders for me and I remember it was silly because for many years during the pandemic I did not do that and I just was work, work, work, work, work. And it became stressful. And I remember for 18 years this is my husband and I. I met my husband. He was my spin instructor, so I would go spinning with him three to four times a week and that was after a day's worth of work and it was such a wonderful release for me to get rid of the tension, the stress, the annoyances of the day if I had any and then it allowed to free me up to just feel joy and start to grow and be creative again.  0:21:58 - Lau I love it, and you took the words right out of my mouth I was just about to say. The ultimatum of the day is that if we don't do this for ourselves, we really run the risk that we may have self-destructive or self-sabotage tendencies, as a lot of creatives we kind of have at building.  A lot yes so much the smoke coming out of the ears, the brain that hurts, the part that's pulsating. So being able to not only release that, but give yourself permission that it's really okay to take time for you and your world, and it's going to inspire you and make you healthier. It's really necessary to do otherwise. It can all be internalized and then start working against your process.  0:22:38 - Anne And you mentioned something so important self-sabotage, gosh. That just happens so much to us, doesn't it in this world?  Yes, because I think we're constantly trying to judge ourselves by our perceived success and success is defined in so many different ways and I think that we have to fall down and brush ourselves off and get back up and really consider that a success and not just, oh, I've booked the gig or I got that national spot or whatever that is because that self-sabotage is destructive and we had a whole episode on that but it is so self-destructive. Am I enough? Do I belong in this industry? I felt them all, by the way, at one point or another and I think, as a human being, I think we can all say that we've probably had self-sabotage creep in to our lives at one point or another, and how you get yourself out of that can be a great testament to becoming successful understanding how to release the negative and bring in the positive and bring that creativeness back to you, your product because you are your product right and your performance.  0:23:47 - Lau I love that. This is so inspiring to me. So fuel yourself with feel-good stuff that really invites invigoration and them invigor. And if you really feel that you're being drained by it you're not your best self, it's destroying you then look elsewhere, because you're going to know the difference between something that inspires your work and fuels it and something that drains you and steals your focus. Love it.  0:24:15 - Anne Well, that's another podcast, right? How do we remove ourselves from a situation that is not bringing us joy and is not bringing our ability to create, right? So what a great conversation, law. Thank you so much. I love talking to you, law. My pleasure, I think, between the two of us. Brainstorming, I mean, we do that all the time right? We are helping one another to become more creative, and bosses, you can do that as well. So I want you to now imagine a world full of passionate, empowered, diverse individuals that are giving collectively and intentionally to create the world they want. It's exactly what we've been talking about, and you can find out more at 100voiceswhocareorg. All right, big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can connect and network like bosses and bring that creativity out in all of us. Have a wonderful week, guys, and we'll see you next week. See you then, bye.  0:25:13 - Outro Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL yeah.  0:25:46 - Lau Yeah, yeah, you know, okay, just why don't you try something else? No, I don't know, just take a chance, I don't know, surprise me, surprise me.  0:26:02 - Anne Surprise me with something different, and at that point it's always like walk out of the room.  0:26:07 - Lau Okay, I don't walk out of the room.  Transcribed by https://podium.page  

So you're thinking about hiring a virtual assistant... Ever wondered how to hire the right person for the job? The Bosses have got you covered. In this episode, Anne and Lau lay out the importance of understanding the job scope and setting realistic expectations. From sifting through rates and fees to seeking referrals and testimonials, we discuss it all. We share insights on how to prioritize, make substitutions, and be resourceful to afford the luxury of investing in your business. Remember, when hiring, the focus should be on what's best for your business, not just personal preference. So tune in, and let's build a successful business together, with a commitment second to none. Transcript Intro It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne Ganguzza: Hey everyone, welcome to the VioBoss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Ngan Gusa, and I am here with my amazing, wonderful Boss co-host, Lau Lapides. Lau Lapides: Oh, and I'm so thrilled to be back as always in the booth. Anne Ganguzza: In the booth with the bosses. Lau Lapides: What happens in our booth stays in our booths. Well, not Anne Ganguzza: Well, Lau Lapides: really, but I Anne Ganguzza: but Lau Lapides: don't Anne Ganguzza: wait, wait. So wait, we also Lau Lapides: know about Anne Ganguzza: project Lau Lapides: that. Anne Ganguzza: that, we also project that out into the global universe there. Ha Lau Lapides: We'll have to change that tagline, I think. Anne Ganguzza: ha ha. Oh man, I'll tell you what, look, I have been so busy this week and I cannot split my time up anymore. I am one person and I'm telling you, I literally have no more hours in the day. So everybody knows that has heard me go on and on and out about. the fact that I outsource and I do have a team, I think maybe we should really talk about that because I might need to increase my team because right now I'm feeling like I don't have any more time and so how am I going to do the things that I wanna do and grow my business if I don't have the time to execute the daily tasks or whatever tasks are needed to do that law. Lau Lapides: That sounds like what my dad would always say a really good problem to have. We Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: all want to have that problem where we're growing a company, we're outgrowing what we're doing and how we're doing it, and we're Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: not spending our time wisely. We're not working smarter, we're just working harder. And really, how do we do both? Right? Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: How do we get to that next level? We call it leveling up in the biz. How do we actually do that, Ann? What Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: do we need to do? Let's talk about that. Anne Ganguzza: Well, first of all, I think it's important to note that there's a lot of people that are just getting into voiceover. And they may think to themselves, oh, my gosh, I can barely afford to be in voiceover, right? I just got in. I'm not booking gigs yet. Or maybe the gigs that I'm booking are few and far between. And so how can I even begin to think about hiring somebody or getting help? Because I can't even get a job. first. And Lau Lapides: Right. Anne Ganguzza: so guys, I want you to really this is where I think it takes courage, it takes boldness, and it takes some, I think some street smarts and savvy to really strategize how you might be able to make this work for you. Because, well, you know, while somebody might be doing some of the more maybe mundane tasks that take up a lot of your day when trying to acquire work, I mean, half of the time it's we're trying to acquire work, right, Law? Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: And it's the acquiring, that getting out there, that marketing, how do I acquire, you're either auditioning or you're marketing, right? And you are the expert at auditioning, right? Maybe you're not the expert at marketing. And so therefore, if you could have someone help you with the marketing, right, it would give you more time to be the expert in auditioning and perfecting your craft or honing your performance. Lau Lapides: Right, and the truth is, whether you're a solopreneur and you're working alone, just starting out the first couple of years of your biz, or whether you're growing and starting to think about adding team members, we're all at that level. All of us are at that level of thinking about, we're marketing, we're constantly reaching out and going out and figuring out how we're gonna get our next prospect. So you never grow out of that, no matter what Anne Ganguzza: Oh, Lau Lapides: is happening, you never grow out. Anne Ganguzza: amen, Lau Lapides: But Anne Ganguzza: amen. Lau Lapides: you do have to time it well. everyone and Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: at the beginning stages I wouldn't do anything prematurely to make you know Anne Ganguzza: Agreed, Lau Lapides: go broke I Anne Ganguzza: agreed. Lau Lapides: really want to make sure you Anne Ganguzza: But Lau Lapides: have Anne Ganguzza: I Lau Lapides: a Anne Ganguzza: would Lau Lapides: little Anne Ganguzza: start Lau Lapides: bit Anne Ganguzza: strategizing. Lau Lapides: of capital Anne Ganguzza: I would Lau Lapides: start Anne Ganguzza: start Lau Lapides: strategize Anne Ganguzza: strategizing Lau Lapides: yeah Anne Ganguzza: because I think just having the thought of, or the thought that, yes, I'm going to need help at some point, you're manifesting the fact that you're going to be getting the work. I'm a big believer in the manifestation of getting work. And also, I think you're never too early to kind of plan or strategize what type of help you might need. And just, you know, it takes time to find help. It's not something typically you can get in a moment's instant. And it is something that you will have to kind of, I would say, educate yourself on in terms of, well, you know, is there a service out here that can help me to do this? Is there someone who can help me to, I don't know, write emails to prospects or maybe generate leads? What type of work could you use? I think if you start by really assessing your business. Breaking down on a piece of paper, how much time do you spend on each thing per day? How much time do you spend auditioning? How much time do you spend researching? How much time do you spend practicing? How much time do you spend on social media? I think that's a good place to start. And then find out if there is. And of course, I totally agree with you a lot with the make sure that you've got a little bit of a nest egg that you can invest. When you need somebody to help you because again, I think we've said this so many times if you want to make money You know you need to spend some money Lau Lapides: Mmm. Absolutely Anne Ganguzza: Hmm Lau Lapides: no doubt about that one. Second that notion. And I would say take a step back and look at your psychology Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Lau Lapides: and really keep it real, really keep it real. Despite the name of our wonderful series here, you do have to realize that no one is a true superhero in doing everything yourself. And we like Anne Ganguzza: Oh Lau Lapides: to Anne Ganguzza: god, Lau Lapides: think we Anne Ganguzza: yes. Lau Lapides: are, especially us ladies like to think we are. Anne Ganguzza: Outlaw Lau Lapides: We can do everything and we're a failure if we don't. Anne Ganguzza: Can I, oh my God, can I just like say yes Lau Lapides: Amen, Anne Ganguzza: to that? Lau Lapides: amen, Anne Ganguzza: Amen Lau Lapides: say yes. Anne Ganguzza: to that. I am the biggest control freak that there is. Lau Lapides: Me too! Anne Ganguzza: And no, if you wanna get it done right, I'll just have to do it myself. But I'll tell you what, that gets old pretty soon. Once you really wanna grow, I mean, I found that I couldn't move if I didn't outsource and I didn't hire. And I kept thinking, oh God, but maybe I won't have the money. Maybe I won't have that steady stream of income that I can pay them. And I'm here to tell you that it can work if you strategize and you're smart about it. And you really take a look at the money that you have coming in and the money that you have going out. I think that really, Law, is another sit down and really look at the numbers. Number one, how much are you spending on, you know, your marketing. How much are you spending on? And when I talk about spending on marketing, if you're not hiring anybody to do your marketing, you're spending your time. And your time should be worth X amount of dollars per hour. I like to say that I am worth so much per hour. Now, if I want to break down what I do in a day and then say how much it costs me, if I'm spending an hour doing marketing, that's, you know, it's my hourly rate. And so really taking a good look at how much is coming in. how much you're putting out. And sometimes in the beginning, that's gonna be a little unequal. I'm gonna say that I had to invest a little bit more in the beginning than was coming in. And I just needed to make sure that I had a good handle on how much I could put out to be safe and still be able to pay the mortgage. Lau Lapides: And you don't want to go in and with a blind faith, you want to have Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: some real strategy behind how you're going in, especially if you're at a place typically within the first three to five years of growing a new business where you really are not making an actual salary just yet. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: You're really Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: not making the return on anything just Anne Ganguzza: Sure. Lau Lapides: yet. And that's expected. And I think in our culture, North American business culture, I think we're sort of trained in a way that is more mythical than realistic and that is we should be making profit as quickly as possible in the Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: first five years. That's a real myth that just, Anne Ganguzza: Oh gosh, Lau Lapides: it very rarely Anne Ganguzza: it Lau Lapides: exists Anne Ganguzza: so is. Lau Lapides: that you find someone who's starting any business that in the first five years, sometimes longer, Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: is making any kind of a Anne Ganguzza: Yes. Lau Lapides: profit, right? Anne Ganguzza: Please. Let's Lau Lapides: So Anne Ganguzza: say Lau Lapides: going Anne Ganguzza: that Lau Lapides: in Anne Ganguzza: again. Lau Lapides: realistically, Anne Ganguzza: Let's say that again. How Lau Lapides: yeah, Anne Ganguzza: long, Law? Lau Lapides: going in. Anne Ganguzza: Five years, if not longer. Lau Lapides: If not longer. Anne Ganguzza: If not longer. And I will tell you, for me, it was longer. You know, it was longer than the first five years. I mean, I came from a job where I was making a particular salary, and I was like, oh, I want to be able to make this salary. You know, and I always ask my students to put their goals on a piece of paper of what they want to do in the first year. after they get their demo from me and that sort of thing. And I have a lot of people, they have very high goals of basically making that six figure salary in the first year. And I'm here to say, not to crush your dreams, but I'm here to say that it may take you a little bit longer to get to that point, but that's okay, I mean, that's very normal. And as long as you are okay and you have that little kind of nest egg there that you are strategically pulling money out of investing wisely, you're going to be okay. I mean, but it's very, very normal to not make any kind of money back in the first, you know, years of your voice over business. And especially now, it's kind of a little bit crazy these days. It just Lau Lapides: Mm. Anne Ganguzza: keeps getting more and more. more and more people in the industry. And then there's a lot of hype around, you know, advancing technologies and, you know, I do believe there is, you know, are we going to have jobs in 10 years? That kind of a thing. But again, I'm very much of the mindset that we create our work, we create our businesses, and we evolve. And Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: I believe we will always have a need for our human voices in Lau Lapides: Yes. Anne Ganguzza: any aspect in the creative entertainment educational spectrum. Lau Lapides: Yeah. And I would second that. And I think that creative energy coupled with the entrepreneurial resilience Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Lau Lapides: is really the thing, capital T-H-E, the thing that's going to help make you successful in our businesses, being able to pivot, being able to be Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Lau Lapides: resilient. And I did want to qualify one area you brought up that I absolutely totally agree with and adore is that it's not that you're not making money Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: in your first five years. investing and reinvesting Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm, absolutely. Lau Lapides: in what you need to have for your studio or have for your marketing or have for yourself. And you need to do that and in order to make money back, you need to invest money in order to make money. It isn't it's not just let me do things for free or get things Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: as cheaply as possible Anne Ganguzza: absolutely. Lau Lapides: and make as much money. Business just doesn't work that way. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: Right? Anne Ganguzza: And I think you made mention of get things as cheaply as possible. You know, we all want I think we all we all shop for a bargain. Right. Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: I know I do. And so you have to understand the market as well when people are shopping for a bargain that may include your voice. Right. So I think, you know, the fact that you mentioned even that law is something that we have to take into consideration. The investment that you make into your business, sometimes making it all about the amount of money you're investing isn't necessarily the object or even necessarily a wise strategy. Because I would say if you're trying to maybe skimp on demo creation or coaching or workshops, that kind of thing, I truly believe that they are worth their weight in gold for you, because that is developing your product. Lau Lapides: Yes, Anne Ganguzza: Right? Lau Lapides: yes. Anne Ganguzza: Your product is, I mean, if you don't have a product, you don't have a business. Your product is your voice. Your voice is, you know, physically, you can't, well, can you buy a new voice? Well, maybe. I mean, I don't know, but not really. I can't buy, like, I can't buy your voice law. I wish, you know, I mean, your physical voice for me. So all I can do is develop my own and Lau Lapides: Yep. Anne Ganguzza: learn how to use it. more effectively and perform my job to my client's specifications. And that investment, I think, is a wise investment. And I don't think that there isn't a cheap, good way of going about that, really. Lau Lapides: No, Anne Ganguzza: There's Lau Lapides: I had... Anne Ganguzza: less expensive, but I don't think if you go cheap, you get what you pay for. Lau Lapides: Yes, it's bringing up one of those little signs, those funny, cute characters, aluminum signs that one of my friends and former engineers bought for me on a birthday. And it was like a mechanic, you know, in front of a car. Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: And it said, good work ain't cheap and cheap work ain't good. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: And I never forgot that. I was like, it's so Anne Ganguzza: Yep. Lau Lapides: cute and kitschy and silly, but yet it really bottom lines it. It's like you do get what you pay for. So pay wisely, invest Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: wisely, Anne Ganguzza: yeah, absolutely. Lau Lapides: and just know that you want to spend money in the most researched and educated and referred areas that you can, because you know it's gonna grow you. So getting back to that growing your team. Anne Ganguzza: Sure. Lau Lapides: It's like, woo, all right, let's say we're ready to grow the team and take Anne Ganguzza: Right. Lau Lapides: on a VA, a virtual assistant, Anne Ganguzza: Sure. Lau Lapides: or take on an accountant or taking on a marketing specialist. What are the steps that we need to be thinking about strategically so that we're staying conservative, we're staying frugal, but we're unafraid, we're coming from abundance, not fear to grow the business Anne Ganguzza: Sure, Lau Lapides: knowing that Anne Ganguzza: absolutely. Lau Lapides: I'm going to look for a return. Anne Ganguzza: Well, I'm gonna say number one, I think, you know, I think number one of everything is education, right? Educate yourself on the things that you are going to want to have outsourced or want to maybe hand off to someone else to do. If you've done them yourself, you know how much time it takes, right? If you know how much effort it goes into the creation of content, you know what can be done and what... maybe can't be done by a virtual assistant. And so I feel as though you've got to really research. I think in a lot of cases, you have to find someone who really understands you and understands your business and understands your voice. If you're going to have them help you, let's say, craft emails or generate leads or do social media, they still have to kind of understand who you are and what your brand is about because they're going to be representing you. If they're gonna be just doing something like, you know, the monthly numbers, you know, like my accountant, that's not as necessary, but still she has to be educated about, what are my expenses? Who am I paying? Who's a vendor? Who's, you know, what, you know, what is this expense for? So there will be some time, I think, that you'll spend, first of all, in educating yourself about what it is that needs to be done and the scope of that job, because that's the scope of the job that you will be having to provide anyone that you hire. And then that is going to then either there'll be a price for that and you'll decide if that price is worth paying for their services and what can they do that's realistic and what can they do, what can't they do. There can be a lot of people out there that will promise you the world, I'll do all of your social media. Well, okay, that's a pretty blanket statement. Does that mean you're going to actually... content for me on TikTok? Are you going to create videos? Or if you're going to do that I'm gonna have to provide you with videos that you can then edit and so that's another step that you're gonna have to keep in mind in the process. What's Lau Lapides: Absolutely. Anne Ganguzza: your part? What's their part? Lau Lapides: Yes, yes, and I mean, when I think of some of the mistakes that I made when I was hiring the first year or so, I won't I don't want people to make those mistakes. So think like a chess player. Think Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Lau Lapides: like a strategy game player where you're thinking three or four steps ahead. So just because you're hiring someone in a particular area that either you are not qualified to do yourself Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: or not mean that you don't have to know what needs to be done. Anne Ganguzza: Oh god yes. Lau Lapides: So it's a very fine line of knowing as much as you can without actually becoming that Anne Ganguzza: Yes, Lau Lapides: expert Anne Ganguzza: absolutely. Lau Lapides: and not micromanaging that expert, but also being three steps ahead of that expert. So the expert... never is bored, they never are left with nothing Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: to do, and they know exactly where they're going for the next month or the quarter or even the week. Sometimes, like for instance, I'll have what I call stand up Zoom meetings at the beginning of the week, and sometimes those will continue all week Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: where we'll Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: jump on Zoom and we'll have coffee and we'll talk about our goals and we'll have a laugh and then we'll get right to it. And it has a very, it has a team cohesion to it. Anne Ganguzza: Sure, absolutely. Lau Lapides: that I find a lot of people really love and crave Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: that connection, Anne Ganguzza: Oh, absolutely. Lau Lapides: but Anne Ganguzza: I have Lau Lapides: it Anne Ganguzza: a team Lau Lapides: also keeps on top of people, Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: right? Anne Ganguzza: I have a team Lau Lapides: That... Anne Ganguzza: meeting as well I have a team meeting as well once a week with you know Not everybody but once a week and then you know if I have like my accountant of course we meet you know At a particular time she doesn't have to be with the team of social media But I do have a general team that handles social media and all communications by behalf or some communications on my behalf. And so we meet once a week. And usually it's a two or three hour meeting. So it's not a short meeting. And of course I pay them for their time at that point as well. I think it's important to note that, oh gosh, finding the cheapest, you know what I mean? Assistant is not always the best solution. I really believe, again, you've got to research, look for testimonials, look for referrals. Because, you know, There's a lot of people can promise things. And I'm always very wary of people that I don't know, that are maybe outside of the industry. And so, I know Law, you and I have spoken about it. You interview, you interview people. And I do the same to make sure that I get a good feel for who they are. And if they are from the same industry, you also have to kind of keep in mind, well, is there a conflict of interest? Or is there, you do have to kind of think about that. I mean, I hate to say that, but you do. You've Lau Lapides: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: got to think, is there a conflict of interest, or is there something that you're doing that they may be also kind of taking what you're doing and then utilizing it for themselves, which is absolutely fine in certain cases, but in other cases, it may not be fine. So, Lau Lapides: so important Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: and so you have to think about this stuff. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: Also, not to downgrade in any way services that do provide voiceover talent that become VA's. That's really great Anne Ganguzza: Oh yeah, no, yeah, Lau Lapides: for Anne Ganguzza: absolutely. Lau Lapides: the talent themselves. That's a great side hustle for them. But my strategy is a little bit different. I actually do not want that. That would not Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: be something I would be looking for. for reasons that you're saying, but also, I actually find that people who are in the non-creative space, if there is such a thing, I Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: don't know, I think everyone's creative, but consider themselves a non-creative. They're more business-oriented, administrative, Anne Ganguzza: Yep, they have a different Lau Lapides: more Anne Ganguzza: perspective. Lau Lapides: numbers, Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: they have no emotional Anne Ganguzza: Attachment. Lau Lapides: investment or attachment to what we are doing, and I actually Anne Ganguzza: Agreed. Lau Lapides: like that better. Anne Ganguzza: Yes, Lau Lapides: because we Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: are the emotional ones. We are the hypathos. We're what I call the crazy Anne Ganguzza: Oh, law, Lau Lapides: creatives. Anne Ganguzza: really? Are we really that? I'm Lau Lapides: We Anne Ganguzza: not a, Lau Lapides: are, Anne Ganguzza: I'm Lau Lapides: and Anne Ganguzza: not Lau Lapides: I'm Anne Ganguzza: a, Lau Lapides: one of them. Anne Ganguzza: I'm not dramatic or emotional at all. I'm just Lau Lapides: I Anne Ganguzza: saying. Lau Lapides: fully admit it. So I actually don't mind and really enjoy the other side Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: of Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: that coin. People who can come Anne Ganguzza: Well, Lau Lapides: in Anne Ganguzza: mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: and they're very consistent. Their personalities are not up and down. They have Anne Ganguzza: And they, Lau Lapides: nothing in it for them personally. Anne Ganguzza: well, that's it. And they bring a very different perspective. And they also can reach possibly people that you don't have access to, right? Or have, you know, in terms of, you know, it could be reach people for marketing or even reaching people for helping and doing other things. right, and you would never have been able to find them. So I actually, law, I am like, I'm between, I actually utilize both. I utilize some people in the industry, and then I utilize people outside of the industry because for that reason, exactly for that reason, law, the one thing that I run into when I look for people outside of the industry, because, and I'm just gonna say this because I've been doing this for so long, selling into this industry. When you sell into a creative industry, right, we're all starving artists. So it always seems like, okay, I don't have a lot of money to invest. I don't have a lot of money. I'm sorry, I don't have the money. I don't have the... And so what happens is when, you know, if you are that starving artist and you're trying to outsource to somebody else who's a starving artist, right, there's gonna be that, well, I don't have a ton of money. And then again, remember, you get what you pay for. I'm a big believer in paying people what they're worth because that's what I speak about and I think we should all walk the walk, right? And talk the talk, walk the walk. You should pay people for what they're worth and they will want to do a better job for you. You have to make them excited to work for you and excited to wanna be at work. And so if you're always trying to get the cheap, right? Or you can't pay a lot of money, then you may not get the performance that you're expecting out of people. as well. Lau Lapides: Yeah, I agree, and I'm gonna take issue with this. rhetoric that floats out there in the artist's crowd, that I don't have the money. I'm gonna challenge Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, yeah, Lau Lapides: that because Anne Ganguzza: please. Lau Lapides: I would sit you down and believe me, I'm not a financial advisor. I do not give financial advice. But I know from living the life that I've lived, that if I sat you down even over seven days and really documented everything you're doing, everything you're spending money on, Anne Ganguzza: Oh, yup. Lau Lapides: what's your fixed costs, what's your variable costs, it would kind of blow you out of the water to see Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: how much money you're spending in directions that are luxury, you don't need, Anne Ganguzza: Oh yeah, Lau Lapides: they're not necessities, Anne Ganguzza: absolutely. Lau Lapides: or that you're just throwing away and unaware of that could be invested. right into Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: your business. Anne Ganguzza: totally Lau Lapides: That would Anne Ganguzza: agreed. Lau Lapides: be what I call Anne Ganguzza: Totally Lau Lapides: found Anne Ganguzza: agreed. Lau Lapides: money. That's like that's like coins under the couch, right? Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: And Anne Ganguzza: totally Lau Lapides: as you're finding Anne Ganguzza: agreed. Lau Lapides: the coins under the couch, Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: say, Wow, well, before I claim poverty, and before I identify with not having money, let me take accountability 100% with the money that I earn or that I'm saving Anne Ganguzza: Yes. Lau Lapides: and how I am spending it. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, that's why I say over and over again, you're right, you're so right on that. You've got to sit down and look at the numbers. It is, take a hard look at your numbers and don't just do it once, right? Revisit it, like revisit it monthly, revisit it weekly. I mean, really revisit it. I have, you know, I installed the, oh my gosh, I forget the name of it, the app on my phone, the financial app on my phone that tells me what I'm spending money monthly on. And you will, oh, Rocket, I think it's Rocket Money. So Lau Lapides: Yes, Anne Ganguzza: I invested Lau Lapides: great. Anne Ganguzza: in that, because now that's something I spend monthly on, but Rocket Money tells me what I'm spending every month. And so there could be those unknown subscriptions that I'm paying for. And I totally agree with you, Law, that there is that constant, I don't have the money, I don't have the money, I hear it all the time, trust me, I do. Because I sell services to the voiceover, I sell events, I sell coaching services, I sell demo production, I constantly hear the I don't have money. And it's... It's really a thing you have to understand that if you are going to hire outside of this industry people will be charging accordingly. Meaning, it's not like you may be surprised at the hourly rate that these other services, marketing services in particular, social media services will get for these things. And So, you know, that might be a nice eye-opener or maybe not a nice eye-opener. It is something, though, to be aware of, though, that in our industry, I think we're so used to hearing each other going, well, I just don't have the money, and, you know, we're trying to, like, skimp and say. But yet we speak about charging what you're worth all the time. And so consider that from all... all areas, right? Don't just consider like, well, you know, I'm charging what I'm worth, but you know what, when it comes to hiring a virtual assistant, well, you know, I can only pay you like $5 an hour. No, that's just not going to cut it. Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: Just, you know. Lau Lapides: Yes, totally. And really, okay, I'm about to say the C word. I think this audience can handle it. Commitment. Anne Ganguzza: Oh! Lau Lapides: Are you willing to make Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: a 100% deep dive commitment, which means you do have to sacrifice. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: Sacrifice Anne Ganguzza: Mm, Lau Lapides: goes hand in Anne Ganguzza: yep. Lau Lapides: hand with commitment. So I may want to go to the movies all weekend. I may want to go to the amusement park. I may want to take long drives to New Hampshire. But guess what? I may not be in a financial position right now to do that while I'm building my business Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: or Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: while I'm leveling up my business because now I need a CRM tool. I need a Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: marketing VA I need it. Okay, so maybe I don't want to take that vacation next month. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: Maybe it isn't absolutely necessary to eat out all weekend and get Grubhub. Anne Ganguzza: There's a big Lau Lapides: Maybe Anne Ganguzza: one. Lau Lapides: I can pick Anne Ganguzza: Yep. Lau Lapides: up my food or cook my food or there's so many ways to cut Anne Ganguzza: I can Lau Lapides: your Anne Ganguzza: give up the Starbucks. Lau Lapides: cost. Anne Ganguzza: Oh, I just said Lau Lapides: Right? Anne Ganguzza: that. Oh my Lau Lapides: Hello. Anne Ganguzza: God. I know, Lau Lapides: And what about Anne Ganguzza: even my virtual assistant, she's a Starbucks Lau Lapides: I know Anne Ganguzza: lover. Lau Lapides: I was like, Anne Ganguzza: She's gonna be like, what? Don't Lau Lapides: what? Anne Ganguzza: you say that. You know, Lau Lapides: Right? Anne Ganguzza: hey, Lau Lapides: And what? Anne Ganguzza: look, it's all in where your priorities are. And that's fine. Lau Lapides: Totally Anne Ganguzza: I'm not saying Lau Lapides: totally Anne Ganguzza: you can't go to Starbucks. I mean, that Lau Lapides: no Anne Ganguzza: can be, that's like me. I have my priorities. I will Lau Lapides: right Anne Ganguzza: always pay for. this, and this, but I make substitutions, right? So that I can pay for this, I will also do this, or I will work an extra hour, or I will try to market myself in this way, Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: so that I can afford that luxury. Lau Lapides: Yeah, Anne Ganguzza: But, Lau Lapides: you have to Anne Ganguzza: you Lau Lapides: be Anne Ganguzza: know, Lau Lapides: resourceful. You have Anne Ganguzza: yeah, Lau Lapides: to be resilient Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: and you have to be creative and you have to make a commitment and be willing to sacrifice. You know, some people are doing a four, five, $600 gym membership every month. Well, could I replace that possibly with a bike or with walking or with anything at home just for the time when I'm building my business? There's so many ways. And again, we're not financial advisors here, but we could sit you down and spin your head around Anne Ganguzza: Sure, Lau Lapides: ways to be Anne Ganguzza: absolutely. Lau Lapides: creative about saving money, not spending money, and then reinvesting that right into the business. Anne Ganguzza: Oh yeah, yeah. Lau Lapides: And then all of a sudden you can get that great microphone Anne Ganguzza: I schedule. Lau Lapides: or that great coaching. Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. I schedule that review, actually. I schedule that review. It's on my calendar, you know, monthly. Because especially, you know, lately, it's been a little tough, the economy out there these days. And, you know, I don't know if, you know, I don't know where it's necessarily going, right? So I want to make sure that I'm spending my money as wisely as I can. And that includes, you know, my team and, you know, making, you know, necessary do, which is not something I love to do. But it's something that, again, I have to make sure that I've got the strategy there Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: to make sure that I'm investing my money wisely in what services I am paying for and what I'm doing to grow my business. Lau Lapides: And I would say too, as you grow your business, to document Anne Ganguzza: sure I understand. Lau Lapides: what you're doing. Anne Ganguzza: Oh, Siri doesn't understand. Lau Lapides: I would say to grow your business, I would document what you're doing, whether you're writing down or video, Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: what you do during a day, like record it on Zoom, record it on Anne Ganguzza: Yep. Lau Lapides: Loom, record it so that the new people coming in can either train each other or they can be watching the videos of what you've been doing because you'll forget, you'll forget half the things you're doing because you're doing so much. Everyone's multitasking. So you really have to be documenting everything you're doing as your business builds. That way the learning curve for the people coming into your business is very quick. You don't want Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: someone on a month's learning curve. You want them on like a three Anne Ganguzza: Oh yeah, Lau Lapides: day learning Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: curve so they can get to business, Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: right? Anne Ganguzza: and you will have to train them. That is absolutely, you do have to understand and be prepared for that. You will have to train them. They are not gonna know your brand immediately. But you can make it easier for them to learn your brand as Lov was just mentioning. What a great conversation, Lov. Lau Lapides: Great stuff. We could Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: go Anne Ganguzza: good stuff, Lau Lapides: on and Anne Ganguzza: we could. Lau Lapides: on with this. I mean, I got one more tip. Don't hire people that you necessarily like only. Hire people Anne Ganguzza: Oh yeah. Lau Lapides: that are good for you Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: and good for your business. Not everyone is a growth person. Some people are great people. They're great to have around, Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Don't Lau Lapides: but they Anne Ganguzza: hire Lau Lapides: may Anne Ganguzza: your Lau Lapides: not Anne Ganguzza: friends Lau Lapides: grow you. Anne Ganguzza: necessarily. Lau Lapides: They may not grow your business. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, exactly, Lau Lapides: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: exactly. Lau Lapides: Know the difference between your friends Anne Ganguzza: But Lau Lapides: and your business partners. Anne Ganguzza: I think you do have to be in a good relationship with the person that you are working with. That is Lau Lapides: Yes. Anne Ganguzza: for sure. Yeah. But yeah, they don't have to be your best friend. So yeah, and that could be a whole other discussion for another day. But. Lau Lapides: Yes, for Anne Ganguzza: I'm Lau Lapides: sure. Anne Ganguzza: gonna give I'm gonna give a great big shout out to our sponsor IPD TL you two can connect a network like a boss find out more at IP D TL comm and Also, I want to ask you guys a question. Do you have a local nonprofit? That's close to your heart. I know that I do You can make a huge impact as a group and contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never thought possible. If you wanna find out more, visit 100VoicesWhoCare.org to learn how. All right, bosses, you have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Lau Lapides: See Anne Ganguzza: Bye. Lau Lapides: you next time, bye.

This week, Anne and Lau discuss the importance of side hustles to your VO career. A side hustle can be anything from pet sitting to retail work, or offering computer consulting services. Side hustles provide more than just an extra income - they teach you to set priorities and work towards your goals. They can also provide transferable skills, and that is why the Bosses believe in the transformative power of side hustles in career development. Side hustles equip you with the skills to be trusted leaders and provide the practical knowledge to run your own business. More importantly, they offer the chance to pursue your passions and reach your goals. So, are you ready to embrace side hustles and level up your life and career? Transcript Intro It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne Ganguzza: Hey everyone, welcome to the V.O. Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Gangusa, and I'm here with my lovely boss co-host, Lau Lapides, hey, Lau. Lau Lapides: Hey, Anne, you look super disco sexy. 70s, maybe 80s. Anne Ganguzza: Why, thank you. Lau Lapides: You want to do the hustle? Anne Ganguzza: Do the hustle. Do, do, do. Lau Lapides: I just turned into John Travolta for Anne Ganguzza: Hey, Lau Lapides: a second. Anne Ganguzza: who said we don't have fun here in Boss Land, in Lau Lapides: We Anne Ganguzza: Boss Lau Lapides: do Anne Ganguzza: Land? Lau Lapides: we do. Anne Ganguzza: You know, hustle, hustle. I think that's the, that is like the word for my business, is hustle, hustle. Lau Lapides: Mmm. Anne Ganguzza: And you know, I think I've been kind of a hustler all my life. Lau Lapides: Me too, in a good way, Anne Ganguzza: In Lau Lapides: not Anne Ganguzza: a good Lau Lapides: a Anne Ganguzza: way, Lau Lapides: negative way, in a Anne Ganguzza: in Lau Lapides: good Anne Ganguzza: a good Lau Lapides: way. Anne Ganguzza: way. And I think it probably helped me to get where I am today, really, all those little side hustles. I think we should take a, let's take a journey. Let's take a journey back in time and talk about our side hustles. And I'll tell you what, bosses, there's no shame in a good side hustle, that's for sure. Because Lau Lapides: Mm-mm. Anne Ganguzza: I think it helps build your character and get you to where you are today to become a resourceful and entrepreneurial boss. Lau Lapides: Yeah, there's no shame in that game. Let's go down memory road and Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Lau Lapides: I'm willing to share. I'm actually proud of working really hard to get to the day where I was able to open a studio. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: I think that there's a whole long path leading up to that the public doesn't see and doesn't know about that really is the building block to getting to your business end. So Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: take me way back, take me back to like even Anne Ganguzza: Way Lau Lapides: your teen Anne Ganguzza: back, Lau Lapides: years Anne Ganguzza: okay, my Lau Lapides: of your Anne Ganguzza: teen Lau Lapides: first Anne Ganguzza: years. Lau Lapides: jobs. Anne Ganguzza: Okay, Lau Lapides: That Anne Ganguzza: okay, Lau Lapides: counts. What Anne Ganguzza: so Lau Lapides: were your first Anne Ganguzza: all Lau Lapides: jobs? Anne Ganguzza: right, I, all right, so I am trying to remember, I grew up in New York State, upstate New York. And so, you know, there was a legal, you know, working age. Lau Lapides: Okay. Anne Ganguzza: But I started Lau Lapides: Which you Anne Ganguzza: very Lau Lapides: ignored. Anne Ganguzza: early. I started very early. I started at the very young age of 12. And, but I wasn't working for cash, I was working for writing lessons. So, Some of Lau Lapides: Oh. Anne Ganguzza: you may, that follow me on Facebook, may have noticed that I've been spending an awful lot of time on the weekends going to horse shows. Well, that is just a blast from my past. And it just, I'll tell you what, when I was young, horses were my passion. I mean, I wanted to grow up and become a professional horse rider. And I, you know, had a couple of horses growing up, and I showed growing up. And I'll tell you what, that is not a cheap hobby. And so I used to work at the barn from the young age of 12, shoveling lots of manure and taking care of the horses, grooming the horses. Oh my goodness, I spent Lau Lapides: Bye. Anne Ganguzza: probably seven days a week at the barn. And I would do that in trade for my riding lessons. And yeah, it was really, and riding of course is a whole, like I can have a 30 minute podcast on what riding taught me. I think that the lessons that I learned from my horses were just invaluable in helping me to shape who I am today and to be fearless, because I had a lot of fear. I was afraid. I mean, I was thrown off my horse multiple times, you know, and I just. was taught to get back up on that horse and face those fears. And oh, it was a wonderful, wonderful time in my life. And my mother loved it because she knew where I was. You know, I wasn't hanging out. I wasn't hanging out in the bank parking lot, you know, drinking Lau Lapides: Yeah, Anne Ganguzza: beer. Lau Lapides: right, Anne Ganguzza: So Lau Lapides: right. Anne Ganguzza: that was Lau Lapides: And Anne Ganguzza: my Lau Lapides: the horses Anne Ganguzza: very, yeah. How Lau Lapides: know you. They Anne Ganguzza: old were Lau Lapides: love Anne Ganguzza: you when you got Lau Lapides: you. Anne Ganguzza: sick? Lau Lapides: They Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: know your voice. They're so emotional and creative. Anne Ganguzza: Well, that's it. It was such Lau Lapides: Right? Anne Ganguzza: an emotional connection. I mean, outside of like, Lau Lapides: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: it's not just a physical ride. It's very much a mental ride because animals sense every, you know, every essence of your being. They can sense when you're nervous. They can sense when you're afraid or fearful. And really just becoming one. And you know, it amazes me, and I'll just, I'll shut up after this, but it amazes me because I used to jump, that was, I wrote English and I used to jump, that you take a beast. that is, you know, 2,000 pounds, and you point it towards a fence, and he willingly goes over it. Sometimes they don't willingly go over it, but usually that's, I say, operator error. You haven't brought them Lau Lapides: Hahaha! Anne Ganguzza: into the fence properly, so they can safely jump the fence. But I'm telling you, just, the animals, they're just amazing, beautiful, kind, wonderful beings that here, I'm gonna point you at this fence, and I want you to jump over it, and Lau Lapides: Mmm. Anne Ganguzza: I'm gonna be on your back while you do that. And you know, I'm going to continually ride around these different fences and courses And you're gonna just willingly do this for me and it just it amazes me the kindness and the and the Connection you have to have with that horse to really have that be a thing Lau Lapides: So it sounds like a very profound way of teaching a moral lesson to our listeners that you learn a lot of hardcore skills when you side hustle, Anne Ganguzza: Mmm, Lau Lapides: right? How to Anne Ganguzza: absolutely, Lau Lapides: build trust, right? Anne Ganguzza: absolutely. Lau Lapides: How to go on the ride and Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm, Lau Lapides: trust, Anne Ganguzza: mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: how to get up into fearful heights and fall and get back Anne Ganguzza: And you make, Lau Lapides: up again, Anne Ganguzza: yeah, when you make a mistake, Lau Lapides: right? Anne Ganguzza: you know, get right back Lau Lapides: Love Anne Ganguzza: up again. Lau Lapides: that. Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: Love that. Anne Ganguzza: So Lau Lapides: Love Anne Ganguzza: much. And Lau Lapides: that. Anne Ganguzza: that was not necessarily for money, although I used to groom. I mean, that was a side hustle after I would work at the stable. I would also groom as a side hustle. Then I would make cash Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: for the horses that I braided and groomed. I would do that. I would go to horse shows and groom for people. And Lau Lapides: You Anne Ganguzza: oh Lau Lapides: braided. Anne Ganguzza: gosh, it paid for a lot of my... my professional riding gear, my Lau Lapides: Ah, Anne Ganguzza: show Lau Lapides: so Anne Ganguzza: entry Lau Lapides: good. Anne Ganguzza: fees, my jackets, my boots, horse tack and equipment. Ugh. Such a good time of my Lau Lapides: So Anne Ganguzza: life. So Lau Lapides: good. Anne Ganguzza: that was my very first. What about you, Law? Lau Lapides: Well, you know, besides the typical before 12, which I did like babysitting and I did mowing lawns and all of that Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Lau Lapides: delivery Anne Ganguzza: I mode lawns Lau Lapides: of Anne Ganguzza: too, Lau Lapides: stuff, Anne Ganguzza: mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: those were not prolific to me, even though I was doing skills. The first one was when I was 15, 15 years old. Think about that, 15 years old. I think I was a freshman in high school. I had a shoe store across the street from my high school, a family owned shoe store, and they trusted me to be a manager. gave me Anne Ganguzza: Wow. Lau Lapides: keys to the shoe store and that changed my entire life because I suddenly realized that I had the ability I didn't think in this way but I had the abilities and skill sets to be trusted and to be a leader and so I would literally open up the store close the store man it was a shoe store Anne Ganguzza: Wow. Lau Lapides: managed the store at 15 and I and I think back on that you know 40 years ago and how those little bits and pieces really built my life built my Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: whole mindset over a lifetime. So that was the first, I think, prolific side hustle Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: for me. What's your next one? Anne Ganguzza: Well, let's see. So I was constantly, I probably did that all through high school. And then in addition to that, I was like, well, I gotta make some cash, some cold hard cash cause I like to buy clothes and or other things, just back then it was like, or records or CDs. Actually it was records, CDs weren't in college. So now I'm really dating myself. But Lau Lapides: Ha ha! Anne Ganguzza: yeah, so then it became, I worked at a department store in retail. So I worked at Sibley's. Lau Lapides: You learned Anne Ganguzza: And I Lau Lapides: so Anne Ganguzza: also, Lau Lapides: much doing that, right Anne Ganguzza: oh yeah, Lau Lapides: Anne? Anne Ganguzza: I worked Lau Lapides: So Anne Ganguzza: in retail Lau Lapides: many. Anne Ganguzza: in the kids department and I also worked for a gas station kind of mini-mart, which there I had the keys and I had to like lock up at night, I was working that nights. And yeah, I mean, those were like, you make the minimum wage and I worked, God, however many hours I could. And believe it or not, I'm gonna go one step further and I'm going to say that, In high school, they had a work study program, so I had enough credits by the time I was literally at the beginning of junior year to graduate. So I elected for my senior year to do a work study program, where I came to school for, I think, just the morning hours, and then in the afternoon, I worked. Lau Lapides: Mm, Anne Ganguzza: So Lau Lapides: great. Anne Ganguzza: I had to just put in a certain amount of hours per week, which I'm quite sure I did 15 to 20. But most of that was encompassed just me going to the stable. and working. And so that was really kind of great. I mean, the work study and I just I absolutely loved all my little side jobs that I did and you know, waitressing, you know, which was again, you know such a such a learn those life lessons that really help you to you know When you are running a business and owning a business that can really help you in a multitude of ways I mean that was the customer service aspect, you know Which really helped me in my job today What about your next one? Lau Lapides: I tell you, it's so subliminal. You Anne Ganguzza: Right? Lau Lapides: don't even realize for many years how it gets ingrained in your core and then it comes out in really important ways as a business person and as a business owner. I too was a server, Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: I too worked in retail, Anne Ganguzza: I was a bus Lau Lapides: but Anne Ganguzza: girl. Lau Lapides: you're a bus girl, I was a Anne Ganguzza: And Lau Lapides: waitress, Anne Ganguzza: a waitress. Yep. Lau Lapides: right? But the next prolific job for me was at 19. I was in college. and one of my professors who was actually teaching me singing said, you know what, we're going away on vacation. Can you stay at my home and take care of all of my animals? And I was Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: always a huge animal lover like you, like my Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: fur children. I said, okay, I'm happy to. And she said, how much do you want me to pay you? I said, you're gonna pay me Anne Ganguzza: Ha Lau Lapides: to do Anne Ganguzza: ha Lau Lapides: that? Anne Ganguzza: ha! Lau Lapides: What do you mean? I said, I don't know, pay me. And she paid me, so I was, changed my world. I launched a pet sitting business at 19, Anne Ganguzza: Oh, nice. Lau Lapides: and I did it for 10 years, and it brought me through Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: all of my professional performing through my 20s and through my college Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: years and bought me a new car. and savings for what would soon be later or later in my 20s, my graduate school career. So Anne Ganguzza: Oh yeah. Lau Lapides: that side hustle was major and it set me up for the next whole piece of my life and I loved it. It was like Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: if I didn't do what I did, I could have easily gone in another direction of creating like a multi-million dollar animal business or Anne Ganguzza: Sure, Lau Lapides: something like that, Anne Ganguzza: absolutely. Lau Lapides: which turned into that. And the skill sets were amazing because I already knew like you knew how to have keys in my pocket and be totally trusted Anne Ganguzza: Yep, Lau Lapides: with someone's Anne Ganguzza: yep. Lau Lapides: property. So I was like a janitor. I had huge Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Lau Lapides: sets of keys of houses all over my area that I'd be going into and taking care of. I loved it because I'm a very pragmatic person. I love taking care of things. I like things that are purposeful and I love my animals. It was like check, check. Anne Ganguzza: Nice. Lau Lapides: And the money was terrific even at that time, which was a good you know 30 years ago now. time I was a young kid pulling in 25 or 30 dollars per animal and could take up to 10 a day. Do the Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: math! It's Anne Ganguzza: Yep. Lau Lapides: like oh my goodness I can do my theater, I can finish my bachelor's degree, I can love on my baby pets all over the place because I'm trusted and where's that gonna lead you see? Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: And that was Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: started out of a accident side hustle. Anne Ganguzza: Wow, I'm gonna Lau Lapides: Mmm. Anne Ganguzza: say, okay, college Lau Lapides: Witchers. Anne Ganguzza: then next for me Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: was, okay, so I started off doing, and this is my preliminary voiceover. So I started reading textbooks onto tape for disabled students Lau Lapides: That's Anne Ganguzza: at the college. Lau Lapides: nice. Anne Ganguzza: And okay, so I'm gonna set the scene for you. I was reading physics and calculus books onto like, tape recorders, like with the cassette tapes. Lau Lapides: I remember Anne Ganguzza: So when Lau Lapides: those! Anne Ganguzza: I had to record, I pressed play record at the same time and I would be reading the actual questions in the back of calculus problems. So I had to understand what all the symbols meant. And so if I made a mistake, I had to stop, rewind, and then record the whole thing all over again. And that paid for my single room. I had a single room in a suite, which was great. And I was also an RA, I was a dorm guard. So that also paid for my room at the college because I basically kind of paid my way through college by doing things like that. And also that was when I continued, I was a singer in high school in musical theater and choir and then continued that in college. and met up with a person where we started singing at weddings at venues. So we were like a little bit of a singing team. We would do duets at weddings. And so I made money Lau Lapides: Oh. Anne Ganguzza: that way. Lau Lapides: Why did I not know you were a real singer? How come I didn't know Anne Ganguzza: Uh, Lau Lapides: that? Anne Ganguzza: you know, it's, I'm not, I mean, I, Lau Lapides: What was your favorite song? What was one of your favorite Anne Ganguzza: oh my Lau Lapides: wedding Anne Ganguzza: gosh, Lau Lapides: songs? Anne Ganguzza: we're talking Lau Lapides: Ah! Anne Ganguzza: about the wedding songs that were back in the day. We used to sing like theme from Ice Castles, you know, we Lau Lapides: Oh! Anne Ganguzza: used to have like those kinds of things. Lau Lapides: Oh my god, Anne Ganguzza: Um, Lau Lapides: the Carpenters! Anne Ganguzza: Ave Maria, oh yeah, but all those, you know, all of those things. Um, so, but it was cool because she had a 12 string guitar and we would sing harmony. Lau Lapides: Oh my Anne Ganguzza: And Lau Lapides: gosh, Anne Ganguzza: so yeah, it was Lau Lapides: so Anne Ganguzza: one of my favorite Lau Lapides: good. Anne Ganguzza: things to do. Although I can't say that I'm a singer today, but I can carry a tune, that's for sure. Lau Lapides: That's amazing. Anne Ganguzza: So, and that's a lot of my musicality comes from my singing as well as, you know, I played piano for, you know, eight years, I took piano lessons. So again, that's another core, I think, a core skill that I think is so important that contributes to my business today and what I do today in voiceover. It's very musical for me. So, Lau Lapides: Totally. Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: And I'll share my last, I think my last side hustle in my life, which actually became part of my career. And that was when I was 28 years old. I was still pet sitting, because I was a huge multitasker, but I fell Anne Ganguzza: That doesn't Lau Lapides: into Anne Ganguzza: surprise Lau Lapides: teaching. Anne Ganguzza: me. Lau Lapides: I fell into teaching and I started teaching in a modeling agency. Anne Ganguzza: Mm. Lau Lapides: And I Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: absolutely fell head over heels for teaching while I was trying to get into grad school. And it took me about four years to get into grad school. And I was doing my pets my teaching and doing my performing. Anne Ganguzza: Yep, Lau Lapides: And Anne Ganguzza: yep. Lau Lapides: then I got into grad school. All of that stopped. I moved to California and started a whole new life. But the teaching became Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Lau Lapides: an integral part of my whole career and my whole program. So I don't know if it's a side hustle or not, but at the time it was. And it just seemed fun. It seemed like something cool to do and something to... challenge me and my knowledge Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: base. Like, you don't really know what you know until you have to teach it to someone Anne Ganguzza: Isn't that true? Lau Lapides: else. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: You know what Anne Ganguzza: yeah, Lau Lapides: I mean? Anne Ganguzza: because you have to learn it like 20 times more. I'll tell you what, Lau Lapides: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: my after college, my teacher kind of came out of me because I went to work in the corporate world. As people know, I was a design engineer for an orthopedic company and I was designing hip and knee prosthetics. However, I used to go for training. I used to go up to Massachusetts, used to go up to Boston. And I used to go for computer training because I did a lot of my design work on a CAD system. And I'd go for training frequently up to the Boston area because that's where the company was. And I met my 2B boss there at a computer class. And he said, hey, I need somebody to teach this, you know, CAD at my school. Would you be willing to do that at night? And that became a side hustle for me. at night and I said sure I'd love to and I started teaching at night and boy I'll tell you what I fell in love with that and I should have known because back in the day when I was a tiny girl before I was 12 and you know working in the stalls and shoveling my manure every day I was teaching my dolls you know flashcards so I feel like I always had teaching in my blood I started teaching at night and then I ultimately you know went to work full time for the school did that for 20 some odd years. And then ultimately that was my last career before I decided to, well, I went into voiceover part-time while still working in that career and then decided to go full-time into voiceover. And I just loved the teaching. I continued the teaching, started coaching in voiceover. And Lau Lapides: Me Anne Ganguzza: while Lau Lapides: too. Anne Ganguzza: I was working my way through the corporate world, I also consulted on the computer end of things so I would work for companies. setting up their computer systems or you know doing you know whatever system admin type of deals so I Constantly, I think I worked like oh my god 60 to 80 hours a week since I was you know 21 since I got out into the working world I mean the real working world after college and interestingly enough I remember setting my priorities. I was like, you know what? I hate cleaning houses. I mean, I'm a clean person, but I hate having to clean my house on the weekends because that was the time that I had to do it since I was working full-time. And I said, you know what? I'm just gonna work overtime so that I can pay someone to come and Lau Lapides: Hmm. Anne Ganguzza: clean my house. And I said that at age 21 and I've had that happen ever since. I mean, there's Lau Lapides: You've Anne Ganguzza: maybe Lau Lapides: delegated. Anne Ganguzza: a time when I stop it, but I was like, I will always make sure I make enough money. That's how, when we were talking about priority setting, right? Lau Lapides: Yes. Anne Ganguzza: I will always have someone to clean my house because I'd rather work the overtime than clean my house. I mean, not that Lau Lapides: Yeah, Anne Ganguzza: I'm not a clean person, because I Lau Lapides: yeah, Anne Ganguzza: really am. Lau Lapides: no, that's Anne Ganguzza: I do Lau Lapides: delegating. Anne Ganguzza: all the clutter and yeah, Lau Lapides: No. Anne Ganguzza: that exactly is what Lau Lapides: Listen, Anne Ganguzza: it is. Lau Lapides: listen, just because you're capable and really good at doing something doesn't mean you should be doing it. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: Right. Anne Ganguzza: it's really so Lau Lapides: Sometimes Anne Ganguzza: true. Lau Lapides: you have to take that time. That's what we were talking in our in our last podcast about building the team. It's like, well, You have to be the head of the ship, the captain Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: of the ship, which means Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: you have to steer the ship. You can't be doing all the jobs on the ship, even though you may know how to do Anne Ganguzza: Sure. Lau Lapides: them, you shouldn't be doing them because you need to steer the ship. So it's the same in this case. It's Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: like you are already smart enough and mature enough to understand that, oh, I can do a great job cleaning my own house and I don't mind doing it, but I wanna spend that time really building my career and Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: really Anne Ganguzza: absolutely. Lau Lapides: putting that into more Anne Ganguzza: And Lau Lapides: important things. Anne Ganguzza: that's so you're so right, because that's actually what I was doing. I was building my career and Lau Lapides: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: moving up in every aspect of my career. Whatever I was doing, I made it a point to grow and to move up, to get promoted and, you know, and do what I needed to do. And a lot of that included, you know, spending time educating myself. And Once I got into my last job, which was at the school teaching, but actually I was on staff as a tech person, but I also taught all the IT electives, I taught at night and ultimately did phone installs, which is where I ended up being the voice of the phone system. And that got me into voiceover. Then I did that part-time, right, while I was working full-time at the job. And then ultimately when I decided to go full-time into VoiceOver, I then had another side hustle because then I wasn't, you know, full-time, I didn't have the clients built up yet. So I was like, whoa, gosh, there's no money coming in. So I need a side hustle. And so again, the side hustle for me for that was I literally worked. for a chiropractor. I went to a chiropractor and he needed help and I was like, you know what, I need to bring in some cash to help pay the bills. And he needed an office manager and so I became an office manager for just about, gosh, I'm gonna say it was a while, maybe it was the first five years of my business. I worked 20 hours a week. I got free adjustments, which was great. And that's what I did. And I just remember my mother. God bless her. She was always like, so Anne, when are you going? Because I'd had all these career jobs and promotions and titles. And she's like, so Anne, when are you going to get a real job? Lau Lapides: Nyeh Anne Ganguzza: And Lau Lapides: ha Anne Ganguzza: I'm like, Lau Lapides: ha! Anne Ganguzza: mom, I am building a business. I'm an entrepreneur. And Lau Lapides: Good. Anne Ganguzza: so yeah, but I had side hustles. And I always encourage students that are just coming into the industry to do the side hustle. Take the experience from life, from your work. and utilize that to continue the revenue stream while you build your business. So Lau Lapides: Yeah, Anne Ganguzza: important. Lau Lapides: and make sure it's flexible. It has Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: to be flexible in nature so that you're not putting your career and your education on hold. Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: You don't ever want to side hustle to take up so much time and energy Anne Ganguzza: Exactly. Lau Lapides: that you're not building the more important building blocks you want it to support, but not to take up all of your. your time and your energy Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: and focus Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: and make sure it's something you kind of like. You don't have Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: to be in Anne Ganguzza: absolutely, Lau Lapides: love with it, but Anne Ganguzza: absolutely. Lau Lapides: make sure it's not something that's causing anger, disdain, grief, because then you're gonna bring that into your career and Anne Ganguzza: Sure. Lau Lapides: into your education and you're not gonna be successful there and sabotage the thing that you wanna build. So you have Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: to kind of think the Anne Ganguzza: absolutely. Lau Lapides: whole thing through and don't be afraid to switch it out. If Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: it doesn't work, switch it out, you Anne Ganguzza: Well, Lau Lapides: know? Anne Ganguzza: that's the cool thing when you're in business for yourself, right? You can, you Lau Lapides: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: know, it's like, well, try it. If it doesn't work, you can try something else. And I can't tell you how much my own experience has helped me to become, you know, I'm also a business, I have business mentorship programs that I work with my students that has helped me to help my students. I mean, and the fact that I'm like, hey, I was an office assistant, you know, and my mother's like, Ann, you know. Lau Lapides: Hahaha Anne Ganguzza: I'm like, there's nothing wrong with being an office assistant, right, or an office manager. In reality, it's, you know, again, it's people serving, and I, you know, had developed a lot of skills doing that, and I was very organized and wonderful. And at the time, it was just enough hours so I could bring in money to contribute to the household expenses, and yet gave me time to be able to audition, you know, and it was close to where I live, so I could run home and audition during the day if I needed to during a break. It was wonderful. I mean, I cannot, I cannot talk enough about the benefits of the side hustle. Lau Lapides: and there's Anne Ganguzza: And, Lau Lapides: probably hundreds of them. Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: that you could really get your hands on and learn from and enjoy, Anne Ganguzza: Absolutely. Lau Lapides: make money at, learn skills. And don't look at it as you're wasting your time or you don't want to do it Anne Ganguzza: Yeah! Lau Lapides: or you resent doing it. Look at it as, no, this is part of my education. This is Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: part of my investment into Anne Ganguzza: Yes. Lau Lapides: my education and career. I have to do this so that not only I build money and capital, but I learn things. I learn how to take care of someone else, something Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: else, build trust. you know, learn skills, selling skills, dealing with money, all of that. Anne Ganguzza: It's so funny, I think education has always been in my blood. I mean, again, I say it how many times a day, La when people say, what is your purpose in life? It's to educate. I truly, truly believe that from being a small girl teaching flashcards to my stuffed animals, to the V.O. Boss podcast was a whole resource for education. The V.O. Peeps was, when I got out of teaching full time, I was like, oh God, I miss teaching. So let me have a group. you know, that I can provide educational resources to. So I say follow that passion in all aspects of your hustle and side hustle, really. And you can't go wrong. And I think education is such an important part of just continual growth and building and growing your business Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: as a boss. Lau Lapides: And be proud of it. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: If you're not willing to share it or talk about it, if you're hiding it, if Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: you're embarrassed by it, it's probably something you shouldn't be doing. So find things that you can add to your resume, that you can chat about at an interview, Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: or that you can be proud of and make some good connections through. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, absolutely. And that's like the biggest thing that I'm always promoting too, when people are just getting into the industry. What are your skills? What is your life skills? What are your job skills? What have you done? The more things you have done, the more you can bring to this side of the business. Lau Lapides: That's Anne Ganguzza: I mean, Lau Lapides: right. Anne Ganguzza: it is, I mean, think about it. What we do is we have a product, we sell it, right? We sell it to companies. It's not just, I mean, it's creative. Yes, it's creative, right? And it's artistic, of course. But think about what you really, you have a product, your voice, that you are selling to companies. So all of your life, you've probably worked in some form for a company or for a business that you've gotten paid for. So you can bring that experience to the table to enhance your business, to either side hustle it, have what I call the divisions of your business or the tendrils of your business. And it's funny because even now that I'm in full-time VO, for many, many years now, I now still have many divisions of my business, which I consider to be my side hustles. And you yourself, Law, have multiple divisions of your business as well. Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. And they're growing. It's not Anne Ganguzza: Yep. Lau Lapides: static. Like, you're never done. You're never saying, okay, this is my business, and that's where I cap it. Like, you should always be saying, what's my projection for the next year Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: or five years? Where Anne Ganguzza: yeah, Lau Lapides: do I want to go with this? What Anne Ganguzza: absolutely. Lau Lapides: do I have to do in order to figure out how to do it? And maybe that's a professional side hustle, Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: you know, that you have to do or you have to hire someone to do in order to figure out how to grow. Anne Ganguzza: Oh, I'm constantly thinking of I love that I'm constantly thinking about that again, as we move through, you know, changing and evolving markets right in voiceover. Is there an opportunity for you to continue to take these skills into even something else. Let's say if you wanted to do something else in addition or parallel with voiceover. What skills do you have now that you can evolve into what's going to happen in the future. for this industry. It's always good to try to look and really predict what's happening in the future. And that might be another podcast episode for us, Law. What's Lau Lapides: of Anne Ganguzza: going Lau Lapides: it. Anne Ganguzza: to happen to voiceover in 10 years? There's a lot of people asking that question. And there's a lot of people that have ideas and theories. And I've got my own theories. But it doesn't stop me from thinking about, if this were to happen, what's your plan B? What's your side hustle? How are you going to evolve or maybe shift into something else? Or? maybe not something else, maybe something in addition to. And I think it's always something that it's wise and strategic for you bosses to be thinking about. I mean, if you are not thinking about it, then you might wanna rethink being in business for yourself, Lau Lapides: Yeah, always Anne Ganguzza: right? Lau Lapides: have your backups ready to go. Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: Have the safety nets there for you. Anne Ganguzza: Yep, Lau Lapides: Just Anne Ganguzza: yep. Lau Lapides: know your plan A, B, and C is always gonna work for you. I think we are gonna go back to that hustle, right? Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: We're gonna go back and do the Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: hustle. Anne Ganguzza: we're all so well. Now I have to go see if we can lease the music. Right. Lau Lapides: Ha ha ha! Anne Ganguzza: Anyways, so yeah, bosses do that hustle. It has been a wonderful conversation. Boss, I love love, love talking to you. Law, I called you boss law. Yeah, I love I love our conversations Lau Lapides: And Anne Ganguzza: and Lau Lapides: I love you right back Anne Ganguzza: yes. Lau Lapides: to pieces. Anne Ganguzza: And and it just thank you so much for continuing to be by my side here. Lau Lapides: It's just Anne Ganguzza: Uh, yeah, for- Lau Lapides: a joy and we're coming up on our year's anniversary. Anne Ganguzza: Oh my God, oh my God, we're gonna have to celebrate with a big party. Lau Lapides: Yeah, yeah, Anne Ganguzza: Big party, big party guys. Lau Lapides: party! Anne Ganguzza: So, bosses out there, simple mission, big impact. 100 voices, one hour, $10,000. Four times a year. Gosh, do you even know what I'm talking about? Well, if you wanna find out more, visit 100voiceswhocare.org to join us and join in on the giving. Big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Lau Lapides: next Anne Ganguzza: Bye. Lau Lapides: week. Bye!

What would it look like if you could harness the energy of a conference and convert it into effectiveness? What would it feel like to be your own boss in the voiceover industry? Our esteemed guest, Tom Dheere, joins us as we unravel the answers to these thought-provoking questions. We share valuable insights on setting the right objectives, maximizing conference experiences, and the commitment required to become a full-time voice actor. Plus, we examine the liberating perspective of entrepreneurial freedom offered by the voiceover industry. 0:00:01 - Anne Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the real boss series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza and I am so happy to bring to this series Mr Tom Dheere. Thank you so much, tom, for joining me on this.   0:00:15 - Tom Yay, thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited about this. This is going to be great.   0:00:19 - Anne Oh, tom, first of all, it was so awesome to see you at the One Voice conference.   0:00:25 - Tom Yes, likewise.   0:00:27 - Anne I know we just had. You were just a guest on my podcast and, lo and behold, like two times I see you within the span of a month or two, which is really incredible, right?   Sometimes we have to go to conferences to just meet in person so whew, I was exhausting that conference, but super motivating, and I know a lot of people who went to that conference are all revved up and ready to go, motivated, inspired. We took amazing classes and so I think it's a good time to talk about. You know, what do we do with all that amazing energy that we just absorbed in that conference? Because I'm revved up, I'm motivated, ready to go. What can we do to, I guess, keep ourselves or keep the momentum going, tom?   0:01:16 - Tom That is a fantastic question and I know you've been presented at dozens and dozens of conferences over the past 10 years, and so have I, and we go and we meet wonderful people and we present and we also attend workshops and panels and we learn a lot and we get to commiserate with our peers, voice actors and coaches and other producers and stuff like that. And then there's this glow.   0:01:42 - Anne There is a glow. It's wonderful glow. There is a glow.   0:01:46 - Tom And then you go home and then for the vast majority of people that go to these conferences, it's like whew.   0:01:53 - Anne And then life sets in right. I have laundry to do. Yeah, family, yeah, right Bills and auditions and stuff like that.   0:02:02 - Tom So it's great. Conferences are great for, obviously for education. They're great for networking, they're great for renewal of purpose, refocus, re-energizing. The trick is how to take all that positive energy and inspiration and revved up-ed-ness and coming, taking it home with you and turning it into effectiveness. Because the positive attitude, while great it can only get you so far, it's not going to get you home. You're going to run out of that momentum and now there's work to be done.   0:02:37 - Anne Interesting, tom. Before we went to the conference, I think somebody had actually created a note sheet of like here are the I guess the talks that I want to go to, here are my goals, or here's what I got out of it, and I thought it was a really great way for people who like that type of thing and they take a lot of notes to write down your objectives. What are you hoping to get from that? And then what do you hope to do once you get, maybe once you get home, to put those lessons learned in place? And so I think that maybe everything should start even before we go to the conference in terms of writing things down and what is it that you hope to get out of this conference. And I'm a big planner, so I am a big proponent of yeah, you guys should plan out what sessions you want to go to, look at the schedule multiple times and just see how you can get the most out of the money that you've spent on that ticket of yours.   0:03:33 - Tom Yeah, absolutely, and different people at different points in their voiceover journey go to different conferences for different reasons, if it's. I've never been one to been one to one before, and I just want to. I haven't even produced a demo yet. I just want to see what this universe is like.   0:03:47 - Anne Great.   0:03:48 - Tom If it's, this is my 15th conference. I've had all these demos done, I've gotten all this work. What am I going to get out of it this time? Or some people go because they specifically want to meet you, or they want to meet another coach or demo producer to see, I want to get in the same room with this person and see if we click because I may want to work with you as a coach or a demo producer. Um, you know, and some go purely as presenters and you know, and then they, you know, do their stuff and then they get out of there and yeah, which is which is which is cool too.   0:04:19 - Anne I think there's such a, there's such a momentum to be gained by just joining forces with like-minded people and, just you know, renewing um relationships, and that just keeps you going, because it's so isolating sometimes just what we do and yeah and I will tell you, though, that the other day I was I don't even know what it was that made me think of it, but I I think I was getting ready to, you know, start.   I had a full day of students, and I said, I don't know what made me think about, oh god, what if I had to go to work for somebody?   um, you know, back in my days of corporate and I'm like I I could never do that again. So boss is out there. This is just a little segue. If you, if, if you know that this is what you want to do and you end up pursuing it full time, I don't say rush into it with your, you know, with your eyes closed. But, um and Tom, we can talk lots of strategies about that, but once you make that decision to go full time, I don't do you know anybody who's actually gone back because they've been unhappy being their own boss um, I know lots of people who have gone back to a regular job because they just couldn't book enough right they needed the money.   0:05:24 - Tom Yeah, exactly, it was purely financially, like I've been trying this and I just, I just can't get enough work to sustain myself and they've come gone back. Um, I can't think of anyone specifically, but I'm sure there are people out there, because there are people who just like to be told what to do, because then they don't have to think about it and there's a level of security in that and I totally that's sympathize with that.   0:05:45 - Anne I'm not one of those people, I can't. I don't, I don't think I could, I could not go back to taking now, I think, now I can take. I can take instructions from my client. Sure, I can be directed um, and then I want to get paid and be done with it. I think that's really it's. It's an interesting. It's an interesting, it's a different dynamic, because that's a, that's a, that's a business to business thing where you and the clients are on equal footing there's no high. There's no hierarchy.   0:06:10 - Tom It's it's you and the client trying to make this finished, great finished product, which is, you know, the audio files that you're gonna send to them or their, their source connecting you through. But with what? When it's a, I am in charge of you and. I'm telling you what to do, and this is when you can go to the bathroom and stuff like that it's like ah, I don't know if I could.   0:06:29 - Anne I don't know, I don't think I could go back to that it makes me think of okay, it's similar to I know I just went off on that on that weird tangent, but that happens sometime, bosses, sorry, um, but it was just a weird like. It just came to me. I was like I could not work for somebody now, so I will do everything in my power to make my business so that I do not have to do that. I think that also was leading into that.   But I think isn't that similar to, let's say, I, I pay my money, I get my ticket, I go to a conference, I take these classes, I'm inspired for a new genre, I'm inspired to work with a new coach, and then we come back and, oops, we're by ourselves, right. So now, yeah, it's very similar to what now, you know, we're gonna be talking about is we've got to take the reins and we've got to do the work and it's, it's now up to us, and we're not necessarily having that coach or that director saying, okay, do this, do this, do this. Now we've got all of this energy and this motivation. How do we cement that and you know, and and start to just really move forward on that?   0:07:27 - Tom right. The trick is if you want to be the vo boss you need to learn how to be your own boss. Yeah, yeah, you know it's empowering to like be the boss. Yeah, I'm a tough boss. I'll tell you that my boss is a jerk my boss, I would say my boss is a bastard oh, I just said that oh. I had another word in mind, but I didn't use it.   0:07:49 - Anne I'm not sure if we'll bleep that out, but yeah woo, I'll tell you what. I've never worked for a harder boss, but isn't that true?   0:07:57 - Tom yeah, yeah, I'm hard on ourselves. I'm pretty real, I'm I'm often pretty relentless and I have to be because I have this bad habit.   0:08:05 - Anne It's called eating and and having a roof over my head, yes, and not living in a cardboard box, yes, yeah, you know.   0:08:14 - Tom So yeah, the motivation is like there's no net yeah, you know what I mean. If I don't audition for this, there's a 100 chance that I'm not gonna book it well, yeah, and I think that's what propels me for sure you know what I mean to get work done, I mean right the fact that I need right.   0:08:30 - Anne I need to be able to pay the mortgage right, and that's the, and that's a.   0:08:33 - Tom That's a great point, anne, is that different people need to find different motivations. To stay motivated when you are alone in your booth talking to yourself? You know, so that's a big part of you know I talk about effectiveness. There's a difference between talent and effectiveness. There's a lot of talented aspiring voice actors out there with interesting voices but like I have an interesting pen, it doesn't make me an author, you know.   0:09:02 - Anne I own a wrench. It doesn't make me a plumber, so having talent, voice doesn't make me effective. Yeah absolutely.   0:09:11 - Tom You know, because no one's going to get discovered, you're not going to get your big break. It doesn't really work that way.   0:09:16 - Anne It's what you do with that pen that matters. It's what you do with that voice that matters.   0:09:20 - Tom Exactly and consistently. Yes, absolutely so when you get home from that conference and you've got all that positive attitude. That's great If you can bottle it and put it on a shelf for later.   0:09:30 - Anne That's great.   0:09:31 - Tom But when you get home, it's about what can I do to be effective today, tomorrow, next week, month, quarter year, two years, five years? And I'm not necessarily talking about writing a business plan, which is something I do do as the, as the video strategist, but it's about how do I think about myself to stay motivated. How do I think about and understand the voiceover industry? So there's a reality, because that's the other thing and, as you know, people coming into the industry have no idea what the industry is. They just have this odd preconceived notion of what it is. Oh yeah, I talk interesting. I got to just get an agent and then they'll just throw Saxa cash at me.   0:10:10 - Anne Exactly and I think, yeah, you don't know what you don't know right.   0:10:13 - Tom You don't know what you don't know.   0:10:15 - Anne And especially not only that is it a new industry for a lot of people, but it's also the fact that there's a lot of people who are very unhappy in their current job situation and get out of that work for somebody else, but then working for yourself is a whole different animal and that really is, I think, where the double it's.   The double whammy comes in for those people new to the industry, because not only are they trying to acquire the skills to be a good talent, but now they also have to have good business skills as well, and they're not used to working for themselves or having to go out and market themselves and get work and all those hats that they've got to put on.   0:10:58 - Tom Yeah, I had a maybe 15 years ago here in New York City. I had a 10 minute meet up with an agent I don't remember which one but he said tell me about yourself. And I talked about all the things I do. He's like, wow, you got a lot of hats.   And I'm like, yeah he's like but you only have one head and I'm like, yeah, so you kind of to be an effective voice actor, you need to kind of be the Dr Seuss Bartholomew in 1001 hats and have all those hats stacked up on. Some of them, some of them, you can take on and put on and take off, but a bunch of them you have to have stacked on your head at the same time, because there is no job description for being a voice actor.   I mean, there is, but nobody knows what it is, until you get here and it's like unlocking these doors and you know, moving these hedges aside and going oh, I need to do, I have to do that. You know it's like. It's almost like a maze, which is the logo of the VO strategist. Now that I think about it helping you navigate the voice over the industry, absolutely. So, navigating the maze of what it means to be an effective voice actor, and staying motivated at the same time. Because, yes, invoicing.   0:12:08 - Anne Staying, staying motivated when you're doing something like accounting.   0:12:12 - Tom Like for me.   0:12:12 - Anne I mean, well, I'm not. I mean, there are some people who love accounting, right, so there's accounting for me. How do there you go See for me? I'm like, oh God, actually I will tell you, tom. So for me, staying motivated while I have an S corp, right, and an S corp is creating all of this paperwork for me and for me, I can't, god it's, and it's just like I need to, either just, you know, be educated about, you know, the entire S corp thing, or I outsource, right. So I think if I had to do all that paperwork and try to understand it all and to stay motivated, it would be very, very difficult for that to happen, and it may discourage me from wanting to have a voiceover business because of this paperwork that I continually have to supply to the government, to you know, support this business, but I, you know, for me one of my solutions is to outsource that right.   And make sure that I have somebody that I trust and can go to if I have any questions, that can handle that aspect for me. So if I'll, I know, constantly get mail, mail, snail mail saying you need to provide this information, or you owe us this amount of money, or you need to prepay this or you know whatever that is, and so I literally will just be like, oh my gosh, this is a lot of paperwork. So I will literally scan that in and send that to my accountant, which, by the way, I will say to the to to my dying day, I will say my accountant was my very best investment for this business. I just I can't. I can't do the numbers.   0:13:45 - Tom Right, well, and that's that's a very important point, and is that if you're getting into the voiceover industry, obviously you need to understand what does that entail on you know soft skills, hard skills, hardware, software, marketing, money and all that stuff, and you need to know, you need to have an understanding of what your S corp is, or what this is, where that is, and then you can decide okay, this is a skill I need to just understand, but I'll outsource it and this is a skill like, for example, using your DAW.   0:14:14 - Anne You have to know how to use your DAW.   0:14:17 - Tom You need to know how to audition and you need to know how to record and clean up and save and, you know, deliver audio file. Some stuff is non-negotiable. You know what I mean.   0:14:27 - Anne But managing your S corp, you know right, that's another thing.   0:14:31 - Tom Or if you're an audio book narrator or a long form e-learning narrator, do you want to hire an audio, an audio engineer, to clean up your clean up your audio or do you want to do that, Do it yourself? Or do you say do it yourself first to understand how it works and why it works and then outsource it? And I'm sure some of your bosses are thinking I don't have that money. To outsource yes, I don't have the money to outsource.   0:14:54 - Anne You need to invest your money to make the money. That's what I always start by saying invest the money to make the money, but and maybe not try to put yourself wholeheartedly into the business until you do have money that you can invest, because that would be, from any perspective, any business. You have to have some investment money.   0:15:15 - Tom I mean it's not just voiceover, just some.   0:15:17 - Anne for some reason it became this like oh, we just talking to a microphone, how easy is that. I don't need to have any money or be prepared, or maybe I just got to buy a mic.   And that, I think, is where, where in the problem lies, where then you start to have, you know, predators in the industry that will sell that dream and people who will get taken for that dream and without the realization that, yeah, they have to put things in place and make investments to do that. So let's, let's kind of go back to we've gone to a conference and we've gotten motivated, and even it doesn't have to be a physical conference, it could be a virtual, online, you know, workshop or whatnot. I just went to a workshop called Unstoppable you. It was a Tony Robbins thing, which was all about the motivation, all about the motivation.   But yeah, now that you've, now that you're motivated, you've got to do the work and you've got to maybe take a look at the hard like really take a look at the the hard questions and and then make concrete steps to move forward. So it's like I can ask the hard questions. I can maybe, I can maybe get through the answers and they might make me cry, some of them Right, they right and so I can do that, but now I have to actually do the hard part, which is moving forward. So what, what would be the first thing you would recommend? Let's say, somebody that comes back from a conference or, you know, a workshop or whatever, and maybe a meeting with a coach and they're they're inspired, they're motivated. What's the first thing that you would have them do?   0:16:46 - Tom The first thing that I would have them do is write down in severe detail what they're perfect.   0:16:51 - Anne Severe detail, not just detail. Severe detail, severe detail.   0:16:55 - Tom What their perfect voiceover day looks like.   0:16:58 - Anne Oh, okay, okay. Follow me with just work with me for a second.   0:17:02 - Tom What time of day are you waking up? What time zone are you in when you wake up? Are you waking up in a house, a cabin, a condo, a space station?   a bunker, a submarine Like? Where are you waking up when it's time to start doing voiceover? Does the limo pick you up? Are you walking downstairs into the basement? Are you getting on a bicycle to go downtown? Are you going into your backyard to your custom built booth? Are you going into the attic? Are you taking a bus or a train? And then, when you get there, what are? What kind of? What kind of bookings are you doing? What genres or subgenres of voiceover? One or more? How much are you getting paid? Obviously, we all want to get paid as much as possible, but what is that actual number that you need to cover all of your voiceover expenses, all of your personal expenses? Manage your debt, save for retirement, save for that college education for your kids, save for that car and have enough to have a little fun.   0:18:01 - Anne And this is before. You're a working talent, right, this is still a, really, if you're just new to the industry and you want to get into it and you're let's say, you're in the process with a coach and you're making demos.   You want to project what genres? First of all, if you're working with a coach, you should probably have a genre in mind already yes, right, and with a genre specific coach. So you kind of know where you want to go. But putting that down, right, even if you're not actually doing the work as you were mentioning okay, this is the work, I'm going to be doing these auditions, even if you don't have audition opportunities yet and you're still just working. Put down that on the list because you want to make sure that you have the space for it and the time for it. Right, right, right. And then the goal, steps, the steps.   0:18:42 - Tom Right, exactly. And once you have that perfect day realized, written down in severe detail, you walk that backwards to the day to the moment that you're writing that list. What are you missing between right now and that perfect voiceover day? What money, how much money do you need? What training do you need? What tools do you need? What marketing acumen do you need? All of the things big and small, knowledge, hardware, software, tangible, intangible mindset to get you where you are and figure out what are you missing and what you need to do to fill those gaps. So when you come home from a conference, all motivated, try to figure out what the practical application of all the wonderful information that you just collected is. We go to all these workshops and listen to all these panels and take all these notes and some of the knowledge is immediately actionable and others are, for you know, I took this genre workshop. I'm gonna keep these notes and maybe I'll be ready for it in a year or two.   And so on and so forth. Organize, organize everything, because you need to figure out how actionable and practical everything that you need is to do to get you to that perfect voiceover day and use the glow and energy and momentum of the conference that you just got home from to kind of build that foundation, build that scaffolding, create that structure. So, when you get back into the day to day grind of trying to build or develop or nurture your voiceover business, you have effective systems of thought and effective systems of execution.   0:20:23 - Anne And let me interject also what I think is important is, of course, yes, you took that workshop on animation or whatever promo, imaging, whatever it is, you know, medical narration, I say because I just did that, love it or corporate.   I think that you always have to keep your eye on the market. I gosh, I feel like sometimes we become so blinded by our own like performance because we're like, oh, I want to get really good at animation or I want to get really good at, you know, whatever commercial or corporate. But I think we always have to keep our eye on the marketplace because if there's not a demand or if the demand is not as big and I'm always telling this to my students about corporate, it's a huge market, is a huge opportunity there Versus animation. Not that there isn't a huge opportunity there, but there's less of an opportunity there than there is in corporate. There's more of an opportunity in e-learning than there is in even I would say, promo, promo, of course. Right, documentary. Everybody that comes to me for narration says I want to do documentaries and I'm like well, how many documentaries do you think there are at any given time? Do you know?   0:21:32 - Tom what I mean yeah.   0:21:33 - Anne Compared to the 30.4 million registered companies that have a product or service to sell that need a corporate narrator.   0:21:40 - Tom And need human resources videos and need orientation videos and need compliance videos Right.   0:21:45 - Anne And I think that that is something that we really need to take into consideration at all points in our business, because that will affect right when you're talking about here's where I am. Here are the here's my perfect day, here's where I want to be, I want to be animating, I want to be doing animations on television or whatever that is, or I want to have a national commercial spot. That's all well and good. However, I think that you also have to take in account what is the market for that? Is there okay? Are you going to be able? And I used to think erroneously back in the beginning, before I realized what the market was oh, I just need a commercial a day, right? Or you know, oh, wouldn't that be nice.   Oh yeah, tom, we're talking about real talk, right? Real bosses. Well, okay, I don't know anybody that gets a commercial a day, except for people who are maybe on rosters for serious exam or they're doing, and that's usually for lower pay. But if you're thinking like, oh, if I got a national spot, even one a week, right, I mean, unless you're in it, voice for a campaign. I mean, I love how you laugh, that's the perfect way.   0:22:46 - Tom Well, I laugh because I thought I had to sound like James Earl Jones.   0:22:47 - Anne Right, I mean yeah, and so like that is. You know you have to understand what's realistic for the, for the industry too, when you're jotting these down. So any education that you can get on that right. Listen to podcasts like Vio Boss. I mean, we've been doing this for six years, right, talking about markets and business. And, tom, you've been doing gosh. How many years have you been doing business consulting?   0:23:10 - Tom and strategizing Over 10 years.   0:23:12 - Anne Yeah, over 10 years and specifically in our industry, and so, like guys, I mean, look, I'm not saying of course you should come to us, but I mean we've been doing this for a long time, we've watched the market evolve and so that's why I want to point it out and say that this is so important for us to have in consideration in our, in our step by step process of here's where we are, here's where we want to be. Now, if I want to be, you know, a commercial, you know Vio artist, well, maybe I want to think about another genre as well, to add in, to supplement those days when I don't get the national campaign every day. And I'm not trying to crush your dreams, guys, that's just not, that's just not it. But you know we're. This is a dose of reality, right, tom?   This is our whole series is based on let's talk real yeah.   0:23:57 - Tom The reality is is that you may be. You may be good at something you don't like, and you may not be good at something you do like.   A lot of people are drawn to the industry because they love cartoons and video games, and a lot of them may not be good at it, but they may find out that they are good at corporate or e-learning, which is a far more to your point, stable form of voiceover income, because, when it comes to effectiveness, the bottom line of effectiveness as a voice actor is you're able to make money. You're able to develop a revenue stream.   0:24:28 - Anne Develop any revenue stream that you need to make. Yeah, develop any revenue stream.   0:24:32 - Tom you can in any genre, whether you like it or not, and I always say all genres of voiceover is storytelling. I get my storytelling jollies out of any voiceover genre.   0:24:44 - Anne I don't care Teaching statistics right or you're narrating corporate responsibility or HR policies. You are absolutely a character and you are acting, and so that is a requirement, that is, I mean, baseline requirement, especially now when we talked about this in our last podcast. It is such a requirement for us to be the actors that we are called to be, I mean, and that includes all genres. So, yes, and that's the reality, that's the real talk.   0:25:14 - Tom Yes.   0:25:15 - Anne The real talk is you've got to invest in yourself, in developing those skills and getting good coaching, and not just taking acting classes. I know everybody would say take an acting class, and I think that's wonderful too, but you've also got to take acting classes as they pertain to voiceover as well.   0:25:32 - Tom Yes, there's a crossover. I mean, I always say improv classes are extremely important because it gives you the ability to make strong decisions quickly while you're narrating your copy. But to an end, compliment stuff like that, and there's like there are people who do improv for voiceover and acting specifically for voiceover. It's a very specific skill.   0:25:54 - Anne There's very specific muscles that you need to flex, Absolutely, absolutely To be to do voiceover as opposed to on camera or as opposed to theater. I'm all about teaching the acting for narration and, by the way, tom, I miss you. I don't see you. Did you turn your camera off by any chance?   0:26:09 - Tom No, I'm still here.   0:26:11 - Anne Oh, I don't see you how interesting. That's that's. Do you see yourself?   0:26:16 - Tom I do.   0:26:17 - Anne Oh, okay. Well, I'm just going to assume.   0:26:19 - Tom Okay.   0:26:20 - Anne I'm going to assume that it just kind of blipped off. But you know, hey guys, technology Riverside, hopefully we'll have your, we'll have your video anyways.   0:26:30 - Tom Okay.   0:26:30 - Anne Absolutely, so, okay, so, so what a great conversation. So now you're back. Okay, so that's interesting. So now we've taken our, we've come back from the conference, we're motivated, we're, we've written down our, our perfect voiceover day, right and so, and then we've worked backwards to the steps. And so what would be next after that, tom, how do do we need to? We probably need to take time to evaluate whether we've accomplished those steps right, absolutely.   Once we've written them down and we've and we've developed our to-do list. Now we've got to go back, maybe in a week or so or in a you know at the end of the day and say did I accomplish my tasks?   0:27:07 - Tom Yes, self-evaluation and self-reflection is one of the most important skill sets to be an effective voice actor. Because you don't have. Unless you're part of my mentorship program or you're mentoring with Ann, you are working in a vacuum. You need to develop the ability to metacognate, which is the ability to stand outside of thank you, the ability to stand outside of yourself. Look at yourself objectively and say did I do what I assigned to my assigned for myself? Did I do it? Well, if I didn't do it, why didn't I do it? Was there a logistical problem? Was a financial problem? Was there a motivational problem? You know and find out why, why you do what you do, how you tick, and there's a time to be kind to yourself and there's a kind, there's a time to be tough on yourself. You know.   0:27:56 - Anne And so taking I think I've always tough on myself, but you're right, yeah.   0:27:59 - Tom You have to be able to. You have to be able to do both, because we're all human. We all have different energy levels and emotional states that fluctuate constantly throughout the day, week, month, year, decade, and we need to be accommodating for that. Oh, mercury's in retrograde today, so I'm not going to get my invoicing done, or what were you?   0:28:18 - Anne know oh, technology sucks, technology sucks. You know what I mean?   0:28:21 - Tom Oh, great retrograde, yeah, you know but if you find yourself making excuses for yourself about why you're not doing things, then you are not being effective.   0:28:28 - Anne Because I have an, I have an action for it. That's a whole another podcast right there.   0:28:32 - Tom Yeah, I have my action plan right here and I don't check off every single box. I get about 80% of my action plan stuff done every month, dating back to 2006. And sometimes it's-.   0:28:42 - Anne Do you have records from back then? Do you do you have a-.   0:28:45 - Tom I have a binder right here with every single one of these. So January 2006-. I love it Was my first printed one and I've done 12 a year since 2006 and it's in this binder right over here.   0:28:54 - Anne It does not surprise me that you love numbers too. I love numbers, right, yeah, see, and so that I feel goes along with.   Now I'm not so much, although I will. I will share my book is out there, but I have my to-do list that I love to cross things off on and I have my planner where I like to write my goals down. I'm not always as good as I propose to be, but, yeah, I think that's super important. But, wow, what a great conversation. I want to talk to you more, in more detail, about a lot of these steps because I think they're super important in our series. So, tom, thank you so so much for joining me for our first, our first in a series of real bosses.   0:29:35 - Tom Yeah.   0:29:36 - Anne So, guys, if you, I have a simple mission for you, but one that has big impact 100 voices, one hour, $10,000. Four times a year. Do you want to know what I'm talking about? Visit 100voiceswhocareorg to find out more and to join us. And big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. We love IPDTL. We love connecting with bosses like Tom and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses, have an amazing week and be real bosses. We'll see you next week. Bye, bye.   Transcribed by https://podium.page

In wrestling with life's challenges, recovery and self-care are paramount. Anne and Lau stress the importance of having that one person who understands, who can act as a sounding board without getting overly entangled in the emotion of the situation. The Bosses discuss the significance of discipline in the recovery process and the role of self-care, underlining the need to step back and reassess situations from a different perspective. Tune in to join us in this deep and insightful discussion as we share our personal experiences and offer valuable advice on how to effectively manage challenging times with a robust support system. Transcript   0:00:01 - Intro It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a V-O boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   0:00:20 - Anne Hey, hey everyone, welcome to the V-O Boss podcast and the business superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Gangusa, and today I am so excited to bring back to the show Miss Lau Lapides. Hey, Lau Nice, to see you Excited to. I'm actually so happy to see you, la, because I have had a crappy week, I've had a bad week. Poor Anne, tell me about it, baby, I've got some cookies.   I have to talk about what we can do to help me recover. Oh so, wait a second, are you in recovery? I could be in recovery right now. I mean, meeting with you, la, it helps me. It helps me in my recovery from a bad week. I know, I think it's something to talk about because I mean, look, I'd love to have an amazing week like every day and amazing days every day, but gosh knows that's not always the case. It's not, I swear. Sometimes it happens like one right after the other and literally I'll tell you, I had to say goodbye to a client. That was number one. I was in the process of responding to a client and, gosh, I guess I waited a minute too long and they could not wait for me and I lost the job like in a split second.   And I was like, oh my gosh. And then I had technology problems. I had technology problems where literally a cable went bad, but before I figured out that it was the cable, I replaced an expensive part of my camera system and now I have a backup, which is good. So guess what? I bought another camera, but that's another story for another day. So I'm going to be upgrading my camera here, but until I forget out what that simple $9 cable problem was, I literally had every other problem on the planet, like I couldn't access my files. You know, my drives weren't spinning up. I had to cancel a student because I couldn't access their files. It's just been one of those weeks Lau and I'm sure you've had them yourself.   I'm sure you've had them yourself. But I thought maybe we could first of all talk about it and number one, to know that I can't be the only one who's had a bad week here and there and let's talk about how we can kind of get ourselves up out of that funk, because I was in a funk Lau.   0:02:36 - Lau I was in a funk, 1970s funk. You're in the VOR. That's what you are. That's a voiceover recovery zone.   0:02:43 - Anne There you go. That's what you are. I need recovery tips. You do.   0:02:48 - Lau You know what it reminds me of? It reminds me of athletes that are top athletes and they do a lot of commercial campaigns. Now on, choose that. Help you recover from those extreme physical wanting tasks if they're doing a marathon of a day.   0:03:03 - Anne And I have those shoes, I do, I have recovery shoes. Yeah, and they're the best Recovery.   0:03:08 - Lau VO what we need. A recovery VO SOS Process, process of some kind I need to pair recovery VO sneakers. There you go. You need an in-house recovery therapist in the booth.   0:03:23 - Anne Well, I did purchase a new camera for this booth, and so I don't know if that was shopping to recover. We're not sure.   0:03:30 - Lau Retail therapy. Retail therapy, I love it.   0:03:34 - Anne That's exactly what it was. But yeah, I will tell you, mentally it was tough and it's interesting because I'm a fairly upbeat person and I think you are too. Sometimes, when things get to me, gosh, it's just in the back of my mind and it gnaws away at me and it affects my demeanor, it affects my performance. Gosh knows I can't come in here and really put my 100% into my auditions or into my gigs because I'm upset, I'm hurt, and that's the thing. It's probably not even that I'm, maybe I'm angry, but most of all I think for me, I take things so personally. Again, it's so hard not to in this business because it is part of our personal brand and so if something doesn't go right, if a client isn't happy or a client can't wait for me, I'm like, oh, you know, I take it to heart and I take it like, oh, they couldn't wait a minute for me, I should be worth that. And what happened?   0:04:30 - Lau And I'm squilling what you're peeling right now. I totally get it.   0:04:34 - Anne I empathize, I'm not sure I've heard that phrase before, but I like it.   0:04:42 - Lau Well, adopt it. Okay, I'll start with tip one. Let's do our top tips on this because I think it is so real, so important and, as you're expressing right now, so heavy on us. When it happens, we can make light of it now because it's a little bit later, but when it's happening it feels very intense and you're a very emotional, caring and very due diligence kind of person, so you may take it harder. So here's my first tip.   My first tip is this take a step back and assess. If you can assess where you or myself, if I'm talking about myself where you are at literally in the moment that this is happening. Where am I at mentally? Is this the beginning of the day? The middle of the day? Am I tired? Is at the end of the day? Has it been a difficult week? Has it been a light week? Has this person pulled the rug out from under me before, or is this brand new?   And I like doing this kind of an assessment because it helps to intellectualize and analyze when I want to immediately emotionalize. So I want to move that emotion aside and I want to intellectualize it because my reaction to this is going to be very different and unique based on where I am coming from in this moment. So you're saying you had a really hard week. It was a tough week. If it wasn't if it was a fabulous week and everything went perfectly and you were joyful and it happened to you you may have reacted differently. You may have been coming from a different mindset. So my tip one is take a step back, objectify, check in with your mindset and really do a quick psychological checklist. Where am I at in this moment? Does my reaction fit the crime, so to speak? Is it accurate to the level of what I perceive was done to me? And sometimes we find it's not. Sometimes we're exaggerating, sometimes we're hyperbolic about our responses, sometimes we're creating and crafting things about it.   That actually aren't even there, based on where we're coming to the situation. So take a breath, take a step back and analyze where I am at as this is happening to me. That's my tip one.   0:06:58 - Anne I love that. I think that's really a great tip, because what I did do to try to get myself out of the funk initially was okay, I saw red flags, and this was not a complete surprise to me, and so I tried to justify was there something that maybe I was not doing or communicating that contributed to this? And of course, I want to say, well, no, of course not Nothing. I actually couldn't figure out where there could have been something that would have gone astray, and so I actually went back and I really revisited all the steps and my interactions and I had seen red flags. And I also have to understand and I think it's important maybe for bosses to understand that you can't please everyone all the time. And that's a tough one for me because I'm that kind of person that really I strive to be liked. I like to be liked, and so if somebody has an issue or a problem, that translates to clients, and so if there is an issue with that, it really affects me personally and it makes me second guess things.   0:08:10 - Lau It sounds like you had two tips right there, though. Yeah, it sounds like am I right that there were two that were together, it wasn't just one tip.   0:08:18 - Anne Yes, it was yes, yes, which I love that.   0:08:22 - Lau I think that's great. So what was the first one you gave?   0:08:24 - Anne So the first one is just to really go back and, if this is an interaction with a client, go back and review the facts, review the emails and a lot of times we deal with clients through email and I really feel that that's hard sometimes to communicate via email and when there's emotions involved or misunderstandings and going back, reviewing the facts to make sure that there was something that you could have stopped or done differently, and then, once assessed, realize that, well, you cAnneot please everyone all the time, and that's a big realization for me.   That's a huge one for me.   0:09:01 - Lau You cAnneot please everyone all the time, and the tip you also gave to was to trust your instinct.   So many of us are not listening to that inner voice of what the instinct is telling you and pushing you and you have to really pay attention because that instinct is really there for a reason. I'm going to add one more to this and I'm going to say as much as we like to like and we like to be liked and there is a professional likeability factor in sales and in relationships. There certainly is. I don't think the deal or the job relies on being liked. You don't want to be disliked, necessarily, but I don't think that you need to feel personally close to someone or feel like they understand you. It's really much more important that you're providing value to them.   And what they're needing and sometimes that feels that perceives as if they don't like me or they're not getting me or they're not whatever, when it's really. How are they processing their information? What are their takeaways and are they actually understanding what you're giving to them? I think a lot of this dislike, discommunication, is based on one party just not understanding the information that's given to them and misunderstanding it, and then it feels like they don't like you when it's really not that.   0:10:23 - Anne I totally, totally agree with you there. I mean, especially in today's day and age, where, again, we are so bombarded with data and chaos and we communicate via text or email and it's so easy to misinterpret that, that's where I always like to get on the phone, talk to someone, and I really believe that a lot of our issues can be solved by just talking to one another and talking to your client. Sometimes that's not possible, whereas in the case of when the client, when I lost the job, I literally you snooze, you lose, kind of thing, and I snoozed for like a minute. I'm like whew, and literally I just lost the job. And they're like sorry, we had to give it to somebody else. And I'm like and then it became.   And then it became damn All right. So I want to make sure that next time I'm still on that roster, I'm still top of mind and I'm still there. So I quickly said, all right, snooze, you lose. All right, fine, I get that. He's a busy guy and we don't always know like our clients. They have deadlines, they have pressures, they have stresses, and I think we need to really understand that and not take that personally. And I was like, well, okay, he was under the gun, under pressure to get that job done. I wasn't there to reassure him or say, yes, I'm here, I can get that recording done. I literally responded to him a couple of minutes late and then afterwards he said sorry, I didn't hear back from you. And I said, okay, I wrote back. And I said, well, I'm really bummed and I hope that you'll continue to keep me at the top of your list for next time. And he wrote back. He said, oh yeah, no worries, you are, you are my top talent, you are my top talent roster. So I felt much better after that.   0:12:07 - Lau I gotta tell you and you know my instinct says about that situation, I think honestly this would be a situation I can't prove it, of course, but I think it had nothing to do with you. I think, because of the timeframe you're giving me and how fast that happened, that they went either another direction really quickly, or the job went down, or they're not going to record it, or they had a date change. I honestly, in that amount of time, I don't think they have five other people lined up. I think that I feel that's what.   I was like I think it was a logistical thing that happened that he didn't want to get into. He just said oh, all for the best, it's okay, I'm all set.   0:12:41 - Anne And I thought about that too. I'm glad you said that that's what it feels like. I did think about that too, and then I was like, well, that's okay, as long as I'm still top of mind for him and he's still good that he responded and said that. So, and you're right, that makes me think that, yeah, maybe there was something else that happened. I was like it literally happened so quickly and I was like, wow, I lost that and so, oh well.   0:13:03 - Lau But isn't that the case? Isn't exactly that what we're talking about?   is that, of course, you felt bad because you wanted to please and you're on that campaign and you have a relationship. You don't want to let people down. I get that. But isn't that a perfect case to take a step back and say, hmm, that happened in 4.3 minutes, so chances are great it didn't probably have anything to do with me. And even if it did, it did. I mean, life happens, but chances are great. My logistical power is gonna tell me. Most likely it's not me. That would be a good place to take a step back and to kind of think in that way yeah Right, and it wasn't meant to be, and maybe it didn't happen. It wasn't meant to be, you're right, you're right, it wasn't meant to be.   0:13:45 - Anne It happened.   And so recovery I have to tell you recovery from that one because I kind of snapped back and said, hmm, let me send him an email to make sure, right, that I'm still top of mind and that, so, sorry, maybe next time my bad and looking forward to the next campaign or whatnot.   And the fact that he wrote back and said, oh yeah, absolutely made me feel good and so that was helpful to recover. But again, going through like, okay, what could possibly have happened? And understanding that you don't know literally, and especially if obviously I can't get on the phone and say, hey, what's wrong with him right at this moment and we can't do that with all of our clients Some of them we can I think that for us, for recovery, I think it's important to communicate, and so that would be my biggest tip really is, when you are having those bad days and it has to do with clients or vendors or people that you're working with, I mean, really I would say, just go above and beyond to try to communicate your feelings and communicate especially in the business aspect of things, whether you're hurt or not.   0:14:52 - Lau I do feel that communication is key and that's the next tip that you just gave and it reminded me. The first visual that came into my head is like the circus, or Cirque du Soleil God forbid someone falls or someone gets hurt, whatever, unless they die, god forbid or they're really, really hurt. Guess what the families teach in circus school since two years old Get up, go back right now, do not think about it, go and attack it. So what you're saying, which I truly believe in, is a discipline fall off the horse, do a quick email, do a quick text or whatever the relationship is, do a quick, even if it's a client. Let's say, a client is unhappy and you're either issuing a refund or you're issuing an apology, or whatever the case may be. Always follow up, don't get afraid, don't run away Like this is the boogeyman. You know what I mean. Like always come back in a day.   Or be angry and not yet, or be angry and start concocting a whole scenario, go back and say hey, you know that didn't work well, I think we fixed it. Let me give you something else that you may need. Let's do this again and I'm telling you nine times out of 10, people are pretty forgiving. People are pretty like oh yeah, right, that didn't work well, but all right, let's talk about the next thing.   0:16:12 - Anne Yeah, absolutely, and I think if not, then you've got to just let it go. It's like one of those things. I mean, it can become toxic right For you if you're letting it bother you, letting it affect you, and it really can just become a toxic thing that can build up and you don't want that. That does not affect your performance or your business in a positive light, and so not, at all Not at all.   0:16:36 - Lau I got one more for you. Yeah, okay, we always talk about in this society in general the idea of self care, taking care of yourself, I think, when you're in recovery which we're all in recovery just from daily work and stress.   0:16:53 - Anne I'm glad you got that out.   0:16:54 - Lau Yeah, if you build in a care for yourself, that is very specific. So, whether it's, you know, whatever it is a massage, going to the nail salon, going to the gym.   0:17:04 - Anne I sat in the garden lot with the sun on my face, because the sun has not come out lately here in California and I was so happy, I just breathed, pet my kitties and just sat out there for a good half an hour and just took a break and you're right. I love the self care because you just got to let it go.   0:17:24 - Lau And you need recovery time. So, like you and I have very heavy days at times.   0:17:29 - Anne Yes.   0:17:29 - Lau Sometimes it's going to a movie or having a latte, or taking a quiet walk or there's a gazillion things or climbing the mountain. Whatever you do, you must make time to do it, because not only is it for your mental health and your physical health, but you have to put things into perspective and the only way to do it is to step away from it. Yeah, you have to step away.   0:17:51 - Anne Stepping away, I think, is very important and I have been guilty of kind of working myself into the ground during the pandemic. I mean it was wonderful for my business but for my health and my mental state it was too much. I've gotten to the point where I'm much better now at kind of stepping away for a little bit of time.   0:18:09 - Lau Me too.   0:18:09 - Anne Yeah, and taking those moments to just relax and appreciate, I find that I'm much more productive and I'm much better off when I do that. I've slipped into the pattern before. I've kind of been a workaholic all my life. I know these lessons and I should remember them but you know what. Every once in a while, we just need to have something kind of slap us in the face and say and wake up, you know wake up.   0:18:32 - Lau It's also. It's in your makeup, though. I mean it's in your genetics, it's in your persona. It's not really a problem per se. It's just something you have to manage and be careful it doesn't take you over but it's what makes you great Also it's what makes you successful and happy. Also, right, I also want to mention too because you and I do this for each other and that's what makes us great new friends, and that is have a sounding board, have someone.   0:18:57 - Anne You were my sounding board this week. You were diplomatic.   0:19:00 - Lau They can be in the same business, they can be in the same space. But someone who's a little bit more neutralized, diplomatic, not someone who's going to get hot and heavy with toxicity, hot and heavy with anger with you. Agreed, you know, rev you up, get you angry. You don't want that. You want someone to bring you down and make you feel better. I know like when I always communicate, I just instantly feel better.   0:19:23 - Anne Yeah. You know, I'm always like I have somebody that can empathize, not necessarily preach or get you riled up, or I just really believe that the sounding board, the whoever you have your support group, is really helpful and somebody that will understand and that, I think, is really great, because what is the first thing I did? Well, maybe it wasn't the first thing I did, but I definitely texted you and I'm like, oh my God, here's what happened.   0:19:47 - Lau Yeah, and it's great and I love that because I feel like you trust me when you do that and I feel like I have to honor listening to that without getting overly involved with the emotion of it, because you come not just you, but anyone who's a friend comes because they want you to save them from that.   They want you to listen or offer a moment of advice. They don't want to get riled up and revved up. So I think that that's absolutely brilliant to have at least one person, if not more than you can do that with, and trust that they're not going to go say everything that you're saying to them to everyone else.   0:20:24 - Anne Right, I'm telling all the bosses out there.   0:20:28 - Lau You want trust. I have bad week, I have bad week. You want trust.   0:20:33 - Anne That's right, that's right.   0:20:34 - Anne But yeah, no, I think that recovery is important. I mean, this happens to all of us, it gets us, and I try so hard. I'm like, oh, you think I would be over it by now, but no, no no, no, no. Things still affect because I care.   0:20:46 - Lau Things still affect.   0:20:48 - Anne I think because we care so much about our jobs, we care about our businesses, we care about our voices and our clients and if you didn't care, it wouldn't affect you. We care.   0:20:58 - Lau We do, we care a lot, and one thing you do really really well I try to do this too, and this is being a proactive business person is when those things go right or go wrong or whatever. One of the first things you and I do we have this in common is we go try to fix it elsewhere for future population, future clients. For instance, let's say someone misread something on the website or let's say something was by accident omitted from a contract, whatever, we immediately go in and we fix that Absolutely. We fix that the next person doesn't experience it and we don't have the same issue. That's something a lot of people don't do. They go through the hardship and recover, but they don't actually remedy the problem itself the problem.   0:21:43 - Anne Yeah, absolutely Right, and we've done podcasts on this. Learning from our mistakes I mean, you know, mistakes are wonderful actually when you learn from them and then you can implement that remedy and try to make sure that it doesn't happen again and again. I think, opening up the lines of communication, self-care, having that sounding board, having somebody out there to support you, all of these things and really taking action and owning up. If there is something that can be remedied, own up to it and put those remedies in place, and that is going to be an essential part of recovery.   0:22:17 - Lau Exactly. And one more to throw in there is to deal with the situation, even though it may be uncomfortable or make you upset. Go right to the person or people, deal with it and say what can I do to make the situation right? And sometimes there's a huge learning curve in that they say something that you never knew before or you didn't expect. That's not personality driven, it's not necessarily about you. It's about the practice, the process.   0:22:46 - Anne Absolutely the product.   0:22:48 - Lau Well, I'm not happy with this product. The demo doesn't represent me, it's okay. Okay, good to know. Can you point out one or two specifics that I could potentially fix? Well, I don't like the order. Can we fix that? Well, yeah, we can fix that. You see, like I can't read that mind. You can't read those minds.   0:23:07 - Anne We're not mind readers.   0:23:08 - Lau So the more communication now. Sometimes it does open up Pandora's box and you don't want to have an ongoing year after year with that. But you can tell if someone's reasonable. If someone is really reasonable and is relatively kind in nature, I like to try to fix the problem. If there is a problem, if it's a personality clash or they just don't like me, or whatever, it's not going to be fixed. It is what it is. Cut your losses and go yeah.   0:23:34 - Anne Right, and if it is toxic, cut the toxicity out. That's it, and learn from it and don't be bitter. That's right. That's the thing Just like okay, I feel clear, I feel lifted, and then things can progress forward.   0:23:45 - Lau I like to say don't get bitter, Get better. There you go so in recovery.   0:23:50 - Anne don't get bitter, Get better.   0:23:53 - Lau So I want more thank you of yourself a lot of time. Sometimes recovery doesn't happen in a day or two.   0:23:58 - Anne Sometimes it needs a little bit longer, that is for sure, if it's a big loss.   0:24:02 - Lau It's going to take longer.   0:24:03 - Anne Yeah, and this didn't go away right away. I get frustrated with that. I know I'm that kind of person. Me too, I'm a happy person and so like if I'm not happy and I can't get happy, it's so frustrating to me, Like that to me is like well, I should be able to work myself out of this.   I expect so much right, this shouldn't bother me, and you know what. I have to allow it, I have to allow it to happen and I have to be okay with that and I have to give myself grace. No-transcript bosses out there while in recovery mode.   0:24:31 - Lau Great conversation, great conversation and, by the way, your last tip of the day is it's not always based on bad things happening. You have great days and great work days that you're exhausted by and take a lot out of you and drain you.   0:24:44 - Anne You need recovery from those amazing days too, sounds like some retail therapy, vo Retail Therapy. There we go, it's in order. Anyways, bosses, do you have a local nonprofit that's close to your heart? And if you've ever wanted to do more to help out, you can visit 100voiceshoocareorg to learn how. Thanks shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can network and connect like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Have an amazing week, guys. Have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Mwah, see you next time. Bye, bosses.   0:25:20 - Outro Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host and Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL Okay.   0:25:52 - Anne Okay, let's try to get in a little more emphasis on this word. Just really pop that word, really pop that word. Okay, well, okay, maybe not that much. No, not that much. No, not that much.   0:26:05 - Anne All right, let's try.   Transcribed by https://podium.page

Anne and Lau recently held an Audition Demolition workshop which included a live callback and casting process. In this episode, the Bosses discuss the audition demolition and how it mirrors the casting process. They explain the importance of taking direction well, researching scripts, and approaching every piece of copy as an actor. During a live callback, don't forget to have fun and enjoy being in a room with other people. Anne and Lau also discuss the importance of feedback and how it can help aspiring voice actors hone their craft Finally, we examine some of the memorable people and performances that stood out. The Bosses finish by reminding listeners that our next Audition Demolition is coming up soon! Transcript 0:00:01 - Intro It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a V-O boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   0:00:19 - Anne Hey everyone, welcome to the V-O Boss podcast and the Boss Business Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with my bossy co-host, Lau Lapides. Hey Anne, how are you? I'm awesome, Lau. How are you Good? Fantastic, Lau. We had the most amazing audition demolition this past weekend.   0:00:45 - Lau Woohoo, it was super, super power.   0:00:49 - Anne Yeah, I think we should chat about it. Oh, let's go, I'm ready. Yeah, well, for those bosses who are unaware, we created a audition demolition workshop, which is very similar. We did it once before a Lau, but we added a couple of new twists to it and essentially it was to mimic the casting process, the audition process, and so people could enter and they could choose to get feedback or not. They could audition and get feedback, or audition and not get feedback through our Dropbox new application called Replay. Lau and I were selecting a short list after that and ultimately did not announce the short list until the live show, which was this past weekend. I think it was so exciting, Lau.   0:01:42 - Lau It was so fun, it was great. It took a while right. It took us time to get through it. It wasn't a quick deal. It took us. How long was the show, how long did it run?   0:01:52 - Anne A couple hours, it was a couple hours and we had 10 people that we called back, just like in a real audition I was talking Lau about. When I used to drive into LA I would get notice from my agent that said you've been called back and they want to hear you. I would drive oh God, I would drive into LA and go to the studio and I'd see a lot of times I'd see my voiceover friends there. It was kind of nice. It was like a big party. But yeah, we were still auditioning and so I was a little nervous. I think all of us had a little bit of nervous.   But we would be called in one by one to read a script and Lau, and I tried to mimic that as much as possible during our weekend, and so people were not aware if they were on the shortlist until they got to the live show and then we announced the shortlist one by one. It wasn't, we announced everybody on the shortlist at once. It basically like as if you were waiting in the studio lobby to be called into the studio to read, and so that's what we did. Everybody was surprised and we had 10 people that we shortlisted and we had them come in and guess what? The client changed the script. Now, we did that before, but that's typically what happens, right, you read an audition and then when you go in person to audition, they have a different script. That's almost always the case, I think, and so we changed the script on them, and I don't know Lau. What were your thoughts?   0:03:15 - Lau I thought it went really well. I mean surprising that I kind of thought to some degree many would fall apart with that and not know what was going on and there would be mass confusion and there would be fire and tornadoes and earthquakes. And Charlton Heston would come out of the booth and then we would be eating alive, right, and then the sea would part.   I was like, oh, what are we doing inviting this? But no, seriously. We had some faith in these wonderful talent, and rightly so. They all came through. Everyone came through, I think, with flying colors, and we did. We're good actors, ann. I mean, we made them sufficiently sweat a little bit as if you would in a real live audition. There was a little stress, little tension in the air. I know people were nervous because I saw conversations beforehand flying around on email and in the chat and I love that.   I think that that gave it that flavor of a real. You know it was a mock audition but it was a real audition feel, which is something we wanted to mirror for the professional development and education of it. Absolutely, that worked well. I thought that really worked well.   0:04:20 - Anne And I think that it's really good to get yourself practiced in a live situation where you're definitely feeling adrenaline, whether you're nervous in a good way or even a bad way, right, it really helps you to get seasoned and to figure out what you have to do to work out those nerves to really perform well, and I think that that was a good experience for everybody that participated.   And I feel that, by the way, and so what? We waited until the very beginning and we said guess what? The client changed the script and then we gave them the new script. So talent did not have a lot of time to prepare. As a matter of fact, I would say the first talent that we called up usually is the one at the disadvantage for this particular show, because typically we're not listening to each other audition. We're going in one by one and it's a private thing and we get private feedback. But this because we wanted this to be an educational experience. We had an entire Zoom room full of people who didn't know if they made the audition and were listening to the feedback live, real time from both Lau and myself, and so that will happen a lot of times.   Lau, right in a real situation, you'll have more than one person giving you feedback. You'll have an engineer in there, you'll have a director, you might have a client. You might have more than one person that's offering you direction at the time, and they could have different ideas about the direction. Now, I think Lau, you and I, we think fairly similarly, but there were some auditions where I wanted to hear something different than you did or feedback that we gave was absolutely, I think, different in different spots, but I think overall, we were sticking to the casting specs that were laid out there and that was very similar to a lot of casting specs. That is, make it authentic, make it real, make it, make it conversational. So that's always a task, I think, for talent, and when they're just seeing the script for the first time and even if we've been directing other people, they might be oh my God, they might be preparing. They might not have listened to our feedback, right?   0:06:24 - Lau Yes, yes, and that was the great part of having everyone in the room. That would not happen in an audition most of the time most anywhere but we wanted that educational experience. We wanted people to observe each other's work and get the benefit of everyone's feedback so that even if they were nervous in preparing, they could absorb some of what they were hearing before they went on. And I think that it was a blessing for people to kind of go later and it was also a blessing for people to go first.   0:06:55 - Anne Sure, oh, I agree.   0:06:55 - Lau Because it's a very different experience. I also wanted to bring up, too, our experience, ann, of when we were commenting in the Dropbox and doing all of our feedback, that I heard in the session from a number of people and post via email thanking us that they felt that the feedback was so wonderful, so detailed, so necessary and it was like a drink of nectar for a lot of people that said I'd like to think what you said was authentic and real and that it gave me time, it made me feel special, it made me feel like someone was paying attention to me, that status casting agency status, coaching status and that I could walk away with some real tools, practice tools to work on.   Absolutely. It wasn't just about am I good, am I bad?   0:07:46 - Anne am I right am?   0:07:46 - Lau I wrong. It was much more about reminding me that I have a full process here and I can go in many different directions, and I'd like to think that you and I gave as much authentic feedback as we could, rather than artificial feedback just for the sake of entertainment value.   0:08:03 - Anne Oh yeah, no, absolutely, and I'm going to say that I think that what I loved about it is that the educational component that came into it with the feedback and this is the feedback not just during the live show, this is the feedback via Dropbox. The really cool thing about Dropbox Replay and offering feedback there's a lot of times you'll notice that you submit your auditions via Dropbox and you always have to be careful how you name them and there's lots of criteria when you upload an audition. The cool thing about being able to offer feedback for all the people that requested it is that we were able to give feedback along a timeline, and so if there was a particular passage that they did well or a particular passage where they maybe lost their authenticity or we had a critique, we could specify it at the specific time that it happened, and that's something that you don't always get in a real audition. As a matter of fact, usually in an audition you'll go in and read, and it's very rare that they'll offer feedback. They might give you a set of directions to do it again and may not offer as much verbose feedback as we did during the session, and you're kind of left with.   Okay, I hope I did good. And so you know, I'm always walking out of the room going well, I think they liked me. I hope they liked me, I hope I nailed it. And a lot of times they will give some generic thank you so much. Sometimes they won't say a word, they'll just say okay, thank you, and you'll walk out that door going gosh, I hope I nailed it. Which is what I love about the audition demolition is that we were able to really go beyond that and really act as like okay, here's what we would offer you feedback for the educational component. And then, when we made our decision Lau this is what I loved we muted ourselves, because a lot of times we're there, live in the studio or we're in a Zoom session and we are being directed and then all of a sudden they're gonna mute and they're gonna talk and we can see them talking behind the glass and you're like okay, did they like that?   What are they talking about? And you know, maybe they're talking about lunch, we don't know. Maybe they're talking about my performance. Was it good, was it bad? Oh, my God, what are they gonna tell me next? And then they'll say okay, thank you, we're done. But I liked our mimicking of that.   0:10:14 - Lau And there was a funny moment, though you can't forget to share, that hilarious moment, where we had talked about giving each other a call, a cell phone call, so that we could have this sort of intercom system between the two of us in case we wanna bring up some details to each other or just remind each other about certain cues. I totally forgot, and it was about a quarter of the way through and I said oh wow, I get a call. And I called Ann and I said Ann, listen, because one person didn't show up. I said do you want to have another call back, since we have an open slot? And she's like Lau, everyone can hear you. Right now Can everyone hear Lau? And they're like, and I'm like, that's okay, they'll learn from it, it's great for them.   0:10:59 - Anne There you go, there you go, and here's the deal In a real situation, right? If you don't show up to that casting call, that's it. You snooze, you lose, you're out, and they may make a decision at the last minute to call more people, or they need to hear more people, or maybe they didn't get what they needed from the first audition. Gosh, that goes on all the time.   Right, Lau, they recast it because they didn't really get what they wanted. So we did that too which I love it through a wrench in it, because everybody that was shortlisted thought that was it. And then all of a sudden we had a discussion. We said we'd like to call back Actually, we were gonna call back two people, but we ended up calling back one other person, which again added that element of surprise which again hypes up the adrenaline and the nerves. And so I think again, this audition demolition Lau we can do this like regularly, because I think it's a skill that every voice artist should have in their toolbox to be able to be prepared on the fly, work through those nerves and just perform and get that gig and be able to take direction well, right, and no matter how we slice it, of course we're always about process or process oriented people.   0:12:14 - Lau But there is a product, there is a gig at stake and in this contest we had prizes, we had some cash.   0:12:22 - Anne We had cash.   0:12:22 - Lau We had cash we had cash, we had a going on. People were really fighting and cLauing for the real deal. It wasn't just oh, you won, congratulations. It was, let's actually reward you. Who is something real world that you can enjoy, right and people love that.   0:12:38 - Anne I think people love that. I mean, who doesn't love cash? Who doesn't love cash? I mean, that's just as you know, that's an investment in your business, right? So invest in the audition demolition and you can win cash and or swag, and so I'm extremely excited to have offered that.   0:12:54 - Lau I wanna ask what were some auditions that really stuck out for you and why did they stick out for you? I mean, even in the larger pool, not just the short list, but even in the larger pool there were so many unique people. Oh yeah, they were diverse talent very across the board. No two people were the same. What were some of the more memorable people and performances that your audience can learn from today?   0:13:18 - Anne Well, first and foremost, understanding that I'm going to be casting for a particular job and a particular company, which this happened to be University of Phoenix, I had a demographic in mind that I wanna advertise to and I had a sound in my head that I thought would be a good representative of this particular company or university that would be able to sell effectively.   And I think that every casting director has an idea in their head as to what kind of a voice they're looking for, which usually ends up in the specs. But sometimes they change their mind when somebody gets creative or maybe interprets the script in a little bit of a different way. And it was always those auditions that stood out to me, the ones that it wasn't like the song that I heard in my head. Right, we were asking for authentic, we were asking for conversational, and those people that could really come into the first few words, that sounded like they had a story, they had a person they were talking to, those were the ones that perked up my ears. And, of course, those that had a very different, a very different sound as well. I mean, I will say I mean I can't say that your sound doesn't come into play here, because, again, we're hiring people based upon how we think they're going to effectively sell our product. Right, what?   0:14:40 - Lau about you Lau? I would agree, and I made a concerted effort to come in with a very open mind and play the producer, who has not as much idea of what I'm actually looking for. I just know, I know the product, I know the school, I know the program, I've seen their advertising campaigns. I get that, yeah, but I want to keep an open mind because I'm not exactly sure which direction I want to go in. Yeah, age wise, diversity factor, accent wise and I'm glad I did that, because everyone was so different and so unique. I would have been let down only in the sense that I would have been looking for that needle in a haystack.   Oh, I was looking at the whole haystack and because we did that, our shortlist was so diverse.   0:15:27 - Anne Oh, it was no two people who are alike, right.   0:15:30 - Lau You'd say, was there even a breakdown involved with this, because they were so large?   0:15:33 - Anne and that's what's so cool. What I love about what you just said was I said okay, I had an idea in mind, right, I know the demographic, I know the product and I know the type of sound that I'm looking for and that's what I'm gonna put in the casting specs. However, you're absolutely right. By being open-minded and hearing a bunch of different voices, then I started to think, well, okay, for this campaign, I like this voice because of this factor. I like this voice because that's the one I originally thought would be a really great choice for selling. But now I can see that this other voice, which may not have been anywhere, like I thought right, would really be effective in helping to sell my product as a casting director.   So, yes, keeping it open-minded, understanding, guys, that even though the casting specs may call for something, right, if you bring something unique to the read, you bring yourself, you bring that personality, you bring something that just makes us go oh, okay, I didn't think about that.   It really is a wonderful testament to, literally, your voice. It could be any voice, right, it doesn't have to be a particular sound, doesn't have to be a particular style, it can be you, it can be what you bring to the read and that can sway a casting director's choice, which is amazing, right, it's wonderful, it's hopeful and it makes you feel like, alright, well then, I still am gonna give my best, right? Well, if you're looking at the casting spectrum, I don't know, I'm probably not gonna get it. I mean, no, don't feel that way at all, because we were surprised very, and actually even in our decisions, right, in terms of who were we going to cast when it came down to it. Right, we were going back and forth between a couple of different voices and I think that, well, let's keep these guys on hold or on call back, or who else would be great for this campaign. There were multiple choices.   0:17:19 - Lau Yeah, and I was playing tricks in my head saying, oh, I can't wait to see who's gonna win this thing, because I have no idea right now. Literally throughout the whole thing, I literally Could not figure out who is going to win and who is going to book the gate, and I think that's very true and very accurate to the casting process. Many times it comes right down to the wire when everyone is disagreeing on a talent or maybe they need to bring in another talent, and you and I did that.   0:17:46 - Anne We weren't necessarily it didn't bring but, we were going back and forth about.   0:17:50 - Anne We wanted to narrow it down, and it was tough for us to narrow down those choices because we each had our own Independent, we had our favorites and we had people that we thought were best suited for the campaign. I'm glad that we were able to. Obviously, we awarded the gig to one person and that's a congratulations to Joshua Goodman and then we awarded to runners up, because that was something that we thought you know we're gonna keep you on our shortlist for perhaps the next campaign and that was Pat Kennedy, was one of our alternates and gender Macintosh. So congratulations to everybody and really congratulations to everyone who auditioned. I mean, I was so impressed with the professionalism and the talent that we heard and I'm excited to do this again, and I'm excited about changing up the scripts, the genre right and changing up the scripts and having even more people audition for this. So I think it was a real success. I don't know what are you excited about for what's up next?   0:18:51 - Lau Well, I'll tell you one piece of excitement, and I don't like to say this at the top. It's what we call metatheatrical. It's a reality within a reality, within a reality, but the truth is, this was not a mock audition when I looked at this, and I'm sure you were thinking this too, in regards to recommending clients for projects that you're a part of. I am always looking for new talent. So there will be people that I'm going to reach out to for MCVO contracts.   0:19:20 - Anne We don't say that and I'll be referring people because it becomes a top of mind. I know who my talent are Top of mind, yeah, and I'll be casting for projects as well. While I'm not a talent agent like yourself, I do have a number of clients that I help cast for and I actually have a couple of rosters that I place people that I recommend I place them for jobs and so the truth is is like it's a mock audition for educational purposes.   0:19:47 - Lau but there's a subtext of reality that whenever you're in front of working people in the industry, they're always going to be thinking about you for potential work. How do you put someone like us in front of some of these people and say don't look at them for work, just look at them as a student? It's not possible, because they're working people, they're working professionals. So we want to give educational value, lots of educational value and development, but we also want to potentially find new people.   0:20:19 - Anne we could be working with Awesome talent. No question, let's there to lose for auditioning, right? So our next audition demolition and again. By the time this airs, it may have passed already, but I really think, talking about our experiences with the first one, I think it ran gosh. It ran smoother than I even thought, and so I'm really excited to continue this on a regular basis because I think it's just so educational and, as bosses, we're all about the education. I'm all about providing a great resource. That's what we do here at the VioBoss podcast, and we're here to help. We're here to hopefully give you some advice and tips along your journey in this crazy voiceover industry that we all love so much. And hey, what can I?   0:21:03 - Lau say I think it's fantastic and I want to be clear to those who have no idea what we're talking about and want to get involved with it that you're getting literally hours worth of feedback. Oh yeah, not just a quick. That was great and you're done. You're getting all the written feedback first Plus and our Dropbox Plus.   You're going to show up on the contest day in real time live and you're going to get all sorts of feedback. You're going to hear everyone else's feedback. You're going to get to observe and steal and absorb everyone else's. Then you'll get your own. So it's like double feedback, Endless feedback.   0:21:38 - Anne It's like double feedback. It's more than if you just go to one session, because you're getting much more written feedback from both Lau and myself, whether you make the shortlist or not, and during the class you're going to have the exposure to finding out. If you're on the shortlist and even if you don't make the shortlist, you get to watch the others perform and be redirected and get that education as well. So I mean, gosh, the value I'm just saying the value is incredible, guys.   0:22:08 - Lau It's massive, it's huge. I mean, I don't know any other circumstance that offers that kind of thing.   0:22:14 - Anne And who offers cash? Who offers? Cash as a prize and the amount of time that we're dealing with a compressed amount of time, right, right, you can win back your money plus some, win back your investment and some, and have fun doing it and be top of mind for those people that may be able to help cast you in further roles.   0:22:34 - Lau So and do you have a couple of quick tips? I love tips, couple of quick tips for the next round of talent. Who are like I have to do this, I got to get in on this or the round that just came through. I know a lot of them are already talking about coming back. They want to have another go of it, they want to be challenged again. Let's talk about quickly a couple of tips that we can offer them when they come back. Good idea, when they're coming in for the first time.   0:22:58 - Anne Well, I'm going to say, first and foremost, do your research on the script, do some analysis before you run into your studio and just read it as if you this is the way you think it should sound.   I really think you've got to spend a few moments and, if you can, google the product, google the company, find out like who their demographic is, find out if they've had other campaigns. Take a look at those campaigns. See what their style is, what their brand is, what their mission statement is, and I think all of that information can help you to voice for that company better. And also make sure that you are, after the analysis, that you really look at it as an actor and I know you're gonna probably expound on this one, but I want you to really look on that script as an actor. You're not gonna probably get a storyboard with it, and so you have to try to imagine what's happening in the scene, always know who you are and who you're talking to, and really put yourself in a scene so that you are authentically in it, telling a story where all storytellers right. We have to tell the story. We have to engage the listener into a believable, authentic performance and Lau. I'm sure you're gonna go off on that one, oh my gosh.   0:24:11 - Lau I second that. I third that I also don't want you to lose that fun factor, because there is a tremendous fun factor to not just voicing the copy but also being with people in a room. When you're with people in a room, I know it's scary, it's nerve-wracking, you don't know who everyone is, but I want you to enjoy, like, really relish the moment and have a little bit of personalization as you. So some of the time when you were giving a direction in, or we gave an adjustment or we were just greeting people, there were some people that stuck out in my mind as being very memorable because they had that mix of business acumen with warmth and fun, and they smiled a lot. There was one talent His teeth were so white I couldn't stop looking at them. He just smiled the whole time because we were visually in a room seeing each other.   We weren't just hearing each other audio wise, but all of that counts for something it does. Yeah, so that I know, okay, this talent knows how to smile on a lot of commercial reads. This person knows how to be a warm, engaging person. So if they're dealing with our clients, they're gonna be that way, like there's a lot of reasons.   0:25:20 - Anne Good points, excellent Right.   0:25:22 - Lau We have to enjoy. Let go be social a little bit, be personable. We're not gonna waste time, we're not getting into huge conversations. It's not a party, but it is a real time engagement of real people, and those people stick in my mind and relationships do matter.   0:25:39 - Anne I mean, it's one of those things that, like you said, it's not a party that you're gonna be talking the director's ear off, but you certainly have to have a little bit of a personality and have a little bit of joy and a little bit of definitely a lot of professionalism, but also let us see a little bit about who you are and that will help us to understand what you can bring to the table Absolutely, and that's within your interactions. When we're giving you direction and feedback, all of that comes out. So, yeah, good advice.   0:26:06 - Lau I'm gonna throw in another one and say it's really important to warm up. We wouldn't know for sure because we weren't asking this question, but I would suspect there were a few people who are not quite as warmed up as they could have been, mainly because they were stumbling a lot, they were going back on lines, they weren't breathing well, they were holding the breath, and I do think a lot of that is just nerves.   0:26:29 - Anne It could be nerves.   0:26:30 - Lau Yeah, real time, but take the time, even if it's an hour. Sit in your booth or take the time to stretch, drink water, breathe the air, go over your lines, feel them through, personalize them, so that it isn't just about getting the script right or I gotta get through this and sound good. It's about how do I feel you and I talked a lot about like the person that you're being and talking to is this real person? Even though it had a little bit of a corporate, boxy language to it, it's real. They're real people. So you gotta do that in your warmup. You have to incorporate that all in your warmup. You can't warm up or come in and you're colder and then you're warming up as you audition. I never recommend that. I think you should come in fully engaged full throttle, full throttle and get ready to go.   I think that that was the difference. That was one of the big differences between the people who are a little bit on a higher level and people who are coming into it, kind of feeling it out.   0:27:29 - Anne Yeah, yeah, and absolutely, when you're hearing direction and feedback as well, if you've got that pencil and you've got the script or your pad, your iPad, whatever it is to make some notes, cause I know, in the heat of the moment, sometimes, when you're getting direction and feedback and they ask for another read, sometimes they give a lot of things, okay, and then over here, I'd like you to lighten up here and who are you talking to and I feel like, if you needed to make some quick notes, make sure that you have the ability to do that. I love that, yeah.   0:27:59 - Lau I even say you know, with a prop. If you're dealing with a prop and you like a prop and a prop works for you, make it a prop that counts. Make it something that is meaningful to you. The first thing that came to my mind was if I'm dealing with the University of Phoenix read, and if you watch the advertising campaigns, traditionally they're pretty heartful. There's a warmth and a thoughtfulness to it. It would be great to have what the diploma looks like in front of you, or what a graduate looks like in front of you or what personally, so that you can see how meaningful that is to someone. That is going to change their whole life. That piece of paper is going to change their whole life potentially, and just bringing that in with you can change your whole delivery versus. Let me just get the first line right. Yeah, Absolutely.   0:28:43 - Anne You know what I mean Absolutely and, like I said, I think that research and maybe looking at other commercials that they've done or other work that they've put out there to their potential clients, yeah, absolutely, that can really make a difference.   0:28:55 - Speaker 1 So wow Good, I'm excited. I can't wait for the next one. I can't wait, bosses stay tuned.   0:29:02 - Anne We will have the next dates on the VO Boss website, vobosscom. The events should be right there on the front page, and so we are looking forward to having all of you come and audition for us and take advantage of the audition. Demolition and Loth. Thank you so much, as usual, for another amazing discussion. Bosses, here's a chance to use your voice to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. Visit 100voiceshoocareorg to commit. And a big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can network and connect like a boss. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses, have an amazing week and we will see you at the next VO Boss audition demolition.   0:29:46 - Lau Yeah, see you then, woohoo, bye.   0:29:50 - Speaker 1 Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL yeah.   0:30:23 - Lau You really know your stuff.   0:30:28 - Anne I'd like somebody to say that to me you really know your stuff. I want every session to be like wow, that was amazing.   0:30:36 - Speaker 1 Oh my gosh, I know a man.   0:30:38 - Anne Bob, it's been. It's been years since we've had a talent.   0:30:41 - Speaker 1 It's somebody this talented. It's been years.   Transcribed by https://podium.page

Have you ever wondered what the fundamental differences are between stage acting and voiceover acting? In this week's episode, Anne and Lau discuss the transition from stage acting to voice acting. The Bosses dive into the critical shift that happens when transitioning from the vastness of a stage to the intimacy of a vocal booth. Anne and Lau uncover the critical components of a stellar voiceover performance. With Law Lapides, we delve into the importance of displaying confidence and command in your acting space, to add credibility and appeal to your work. We discuss the art of 'acting between the sentences' and how connecting with your audience through energy and enthusiasm can create a powerful story. Transcript Intro It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Boss super power series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with the wonderful Lau Lapides. Hello, Happy Saturday. Happy Saturday, Hello Lau. Hello Anne, and how are you today, Lau? Lau Oh, I'm excellent. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. All right, that's ridiculous, Everyone's like. Why are you doing that? Anne Today's Bad Acting by Anne and Lau. You know, what's so funny is I get this question all the time should I take an acting class if I want to do voiceover? And I always have to say yes. I think an acting class is amazing because we are voice actors. That's why they call us voice actors. However, there are some fundamental differences in, let's say, the different types of acting stage acting on camera and voiceover. I think we should have a discussion on that today. Lau That's an excellent discussion, and you and I both work with a ton of people who are coming off the stage Absolutely, or to a microphone, yeah and need to figure out how to translate all of their knowledge, all of their training, all of really their fabulosity onto a microphone, yeah. Anne Because you're in a different space, number one, and especially because in voiceover you're in a space where you are by yourself, and so the acting has to happen, I think, much more internally, maybe focused, instead of on a stage. You've got an audience, you've got to project. There's just so many things when you're on stage, and I think you're always much grander because people in the back row have to be able to feel the effects of your acting on a stage. Lau And the point of training I mean traditionally the point of training in live theater is to reach an audience without microphones. I mean only in modern times have we been mic'd up. But, 2000 years ago in ancient Greece, in the side of a mountain, in front of 2000 people, you didn't have any microphone. Anne You had your diaphragm. That's what you had. Lau And the natural echoes of the mountain. So, yes, I think it's really important to be able to take acting and to learn different methodologies, different techniques. Yes, to be able to create an emotional reservoir to select from, but to understand that there is a modulation that needs to happen when you're in a technical context, like a vocal booth or in front of a camera too. Anne Yeah, now you've done both. And so what would you say are the fundamental differences from being on a stage to being behind the microphone in a booth? Lau Well, you know, one of the things that I know as a coach you hear this all the time is students will come in and say oh, I know, my director said I need to be small, I'm too big, I'm too large on a stage, you know, my gyrations are large, my sound is large, my energy is large. Okay, how do I get small? And I like to say let's switch that vocabulary up, because it's not really about big and small, so much is. It's about the context of your situation. So think about this, rather than large and small, think about what is private and what is public. When you're private, your natural instincts is to get a little quieter and to soften your physicality and to bring your energy in and to do all the things that we naturally do in a code. Switching situation versus, if I'm out in the park and I'm trying to get my kids attention and I see my friend across the park and I got the group there, I'm going to get really loud, I'm going to get a little bigger because I'm trying to transmit across a larger context. So I like to start in from a place of privacy versus public. And now in these times, in contemporary times, we are private, so to speak, we're private, meaning we're in a room, we're in a little room talking to someone when in Shakespeare's time, there was nothing private. You always had people around. Anne And I think, though, bosses, we can't mistake private for being quiet, like quiet in terms of your energy, or quiet in terms of even your voice, because I'm not saying you need to be loud, but you don't want to be super quiet or careful either. The microphone is going to be picking up every nuance of your acting, and I think that when we say to maybe make it private, we're thinking in terms of context, of where you are. So if you're on a stage and you need to kind of reach the people that are far away, from a distance, at the back of the audience, I think that's a different energy than here in Arbus right, where I still feel like if you're doing animation or you're doing video games, you do have to have the energy to go through lots of different physical, maybe altercations. Whatever might be happening in the scene, you still have to react with the same energy. It just may not be the same volume. Lau I'm glad you're saying that we're in energy, because I think that people can note being more intimate or more private or, in that scenario, smaller if you will, as being less energy, be quiet and it's not, yeah, no, it's probably more energy, right the? Truth is it can take more energy. Yeah it can be more exhausting to keep the intimacy held versus to just let it all out, right, right. And so that's kind of fascinating when you think what do I use that for? Well, if I'm doing an Advil commercial, or if I'm doing an episodic where someone is in murder, or if I'm doing this, how do I hold the intimacy and the intensity of the scene? Yes absolutely, and it's like within all your muscles. Your muscles are holding kinesthetic memory of emotion, sure. Anne I also big, big difference as well is those scenes are no longer necessarily in front of you or on the set, or bouncing off a colleague or a fellow actor. They are now all like in your head. They are all in your imagination, and so you are reacting to those scenes through your own imagination, and I think when you are behind the mic, you've got to really be energized with your imagination to create a scene and not just create the scene. I think it's so easy to create a scene, but it's really difficult to stay in the scene, especially when you're sitting here behind the mic by yourself, right, and so to keep that scene throughout your storytelling is something that I think a lot of voice actors struggle with Is a huge control factor involved, and I don't like to think of it as a control. Lau We don't really control very much. But how do we manage a scene, how do we manage a script, or manage the longevity of copy and hold on to the closeness, the intimacy, the quietness, if you will, while being full-powered, intense, high-energy, fully connected? That's where your training comes in. I mean, that's really where it is. Anne And in addition to that, is being able to be in a scene and continue that scene and actually have movement in the scene throughout your script. Right, you've also got to create that scene. There's so many times that we will get a script and there'll be nothing else except for the script in front of us. I speak from a place of doing a lot of not just commercial, but doing a lot of corporate narration, where a lot of times people are like it's talking about corporate responsibility. What scene is that? How do I create a scene? And I'm like well, you have to really think of a logical scene in which you would be responding with the words that are sitting here in front of you and that for a lot of students becomes almost like oh my gosh, I can't even think to that level. But if you do think to that level, and especially because we are storytellers and I think we need to be storytellers no matter what we do, I mean, I think there's no way that any one of us can get away with just reading a script nicely anymore. We just can't. Maybe we could do that before. And I'll tell you what it still happens. Right, I'm not here to say you're not going to get paid. If you just read nicely, that still happens. However, if you want to elevate your game and kick it up a notch and be able to do all different kinds of iterations of a storytell, right, I say, get yourself in the scene. And before you can even do that, you've got to create the scene in which the words are logical, right and realistic, because there'll be people that will say to me in corporate narration, no, I would never say these words in a conversation. And I said well, you have to make the scene in which you would say them in a conversation, and sometimes that takes a lot of imagination. It takes a little bit of research, right, to say, well, you might be talking to an investor about this and you might not word it in this particular way, but maybe you would. And so maybe there would be some words leading up to the copy that will make that copy sound more logical, right and more believable. It has to be believable what you're saying. And I just find that most people it stumps them. We'll spend probably 10 minutes taking a look at the company, taking a look at the product, reading, rereading the lines so that it makes sense. Now, why? What does this word mean? What is it talking about when you're talking about the elements? Is it the air, is it the wind, is it the sea? What are you talking about? Where's the scene? And so really, it has to take an in-depth look at the words on the page and try to make an understanding, or try to understand why those words are there, because obviously somebody was paid some money to put those words on the page. They have a scene in their head, right, they have a scene in their head that's very, very logical. Lau So we just have to come up with that scene that's logical to us so that we can make it believable and tell the story, and that's exactly why taking acting classes is just your best friend, because acting, like anything whether you're doing vocal work or singing or speech work or accent or dialect work is your toolbox of options, choices. You have a lot of choices. I mean as an instrument and creating sound and meaning and using your breath. You have a lot of choices where you want to go with that, and so it's just options and choices. I don't like to think of it all in a very boxy way like, oh, I'm big, I'm small, right, I'm wrong, I'm in, I'm out. That's a very sort of non-nuanced way of looking at things. Acting is about nuances. It's about small moments in life. It's not always about big, dramatic moments, right, a lot of our moments throughout our day. Think about this, listeners, think about this how many moments in your life, in your day, are that big? Oftentimes you're reading emails, you're dealing with contracts, you're answering the phone, you're feeding your kids, you're feeding your dogs. They're small, nuanced moments. They're detailed moments and if you don't go through the details, then the job isn't done fully, it isn't done well. I like to think of acting that way. It's not like am I big while I feed the dog or am I small? No, I have purpose and I'm thorough and I'm detailed about how I mix the water with the wet food and how much dry food I put in and what kind of bowl I put it in. So the actor, the vocal actor, has to pay attention and be observant about the nuanced choices that you're making and just trust that. That's enough. You don't have to be big, you don't have to do more, you just have to fully, fully do that. And I want to call attention too to our friend Konstantin Stanislavski, one of the most famous directors, I think, in the world, russian director, who wrote an actor prepares, and everyone should really be reading that because it's about the magic if. The magic if is what if I was a king? What if I was the president? What if I was a CEO? What if If we could say that and really believe it? Then we wouldn't have as many questions throughout about credibility. Because when I'm taking a role, taking a part, looking at the script, analysis of it, I'm immediately adopting the ideology that this could be me, rather than oh, I wouldn't say that, or I haven't lived that, or I don't really agree with that. Anne Don't judge it. Lau Don't judge your copy. You were just talking about that before we got on air you can judge in your own world, but don't judge your copy, because then you limit your choices when you do that. Anne I love that. I love that you said that, because that really helps me to explain to someone who will say to me but I would never say it, because I'll be like, look, I want this to be believable, I want this to be authentic. I don't want you to just read me the words, I want you to feel them and express them. And they would say but I would never say those words. And that's such a great response. Well, no, don't judge the copy like that. Really right, you must create the scene in which you would say that, in which you would be believable, in which you would be that character that could say that I love that. That's a deeper perspective, even. Lau It's a really deep perspective and if you can shift the paradigm of your mindset for a moment, to say, I may not say that, I wouldn't say that, but if I had the right context I very well may say that, absolutely, would say that and that's a big key if I had the right context or situation Right. Anne And you have to create the right situation, create the right context for the opportunity to say those words and then it will become believable. And this bosses out there does not take a minute. I think the days of people running into their studios and doing an audition in five minutes, first of all, that should have never happened. Anyways, I feel like you've got to spend more than five minutes understanding the story of the script that you're telling. And if it's not obvious to you, right, what that story is, and if it's not given to you, most of the times it isn't I mean, sometimes it is. If you are fortunate you'll get a storyboard right, you'll get a storyboard with that, but a lot of times we don't, and specifically in any kind of long format narration, we probably don't get any kind of storyboard. So we have to figure out well, what if I'm talking about corporate responsibility? Okay, here's like one of the driest probably most people would say the driest topics around for a company Corporate responsibility. How do I tell the story of that? Well, you tell the story where you are the founder of the company and as a founder of the company, you have a product that you believe in. I mean, 10 years ago, when you formed that company, you had a belief that you had an idea and you said this is going to help people, this is going to change, this is going to change the world. And so you, on that belief, built a company from the ground up. And so you start building the character, you start building the story as to why you talk about corporate responsibility and what you're committed to as the CEO of that company. And you, in your heart, believe this. You're committed for innovative excellence. You are committed to giving back. You are committed. And so when you build that story up for something, even as most people will say it's dry, I say what an amazing acting challenge. It is right To figure out how, in a corporate narration that you think is dry and just providing information to people so that investors will continue to give you money for the company. No, it's not even about that. It's about you as the founder of the company and how you had a vision and you had a belief. You had an idea and that grew. And notice how like I'm even getting passionate when I talk to you about it and when we talk about passion Lau this is the other angle that I wanted to talk about. Passion doesn't mean over the top dramatics. Passion just means an invested interest and a sincere, I would say, commitment to the idea. I like to expand on that because sometimes people think passion means over the top, you know, and what'll happen in their performances is it will be over dramatic and it will not be believable. Lau Absolutely. And this is exactly why when a student comes to you and client comes to me and says, hey, should I take an acting class, should I take an improv class, I say yes, you have to because you need someone putting you on the spot. Yeah, I'm saying a lot, saying, okay, you're an executive manager, go, you're this, go, you're this. Go and be able to create instantaneously exactly the context, exactly the scenario you need to create, so that you would say those words, yeah. And I would even say everyone should be paying attention to the grandmother of improvisation. Really, the creator of improvisation was Viola Spolen. And reading her books because she was watching children. So she got all of her improv exercises from watching little kids, and little kids don't take any time at all. They can create anything they want and be anyone they want in a moment's notice, without second guessing it. And so I feel like, as talent, that's where we need to be. We need to say anything's possible, everything's possible, like re-envision, your possible. Don't say, but it's improbable, but it's not really. Don't give yourself excuses like don't let yourself off the hook. Say, no, it is possible, is it probable? I don't know, probably not but, it's possible yeah, yeah and that's the most important thing for your brain and your imagination to engage absolutely the possibilities. Yeah right, I mean that's like one of the most important things we can do as artists is like the writer of Alice in Wonderland that mad Hatter said I think up, I dream up 12 impossible things before breakfast. You know what I mean. Like, allow yourself to think about the impossible as something that could really happen to you and with you, so that you can go down that road and you cAnneot second guess your copy as much yeah, yeah, yeah. Anne Well, you know, I love that because now you're helping even me to get even more in depth with my students by saying, like it is possible. And it's funny because sometimes I will say, no, you really need to create the scene, and they'll get so frustrated that they can't think of what's possible or what could possibly happen and I'll give them okay, maybe this is the scenario, maybe this is the scenario. And I don't always know the scenario myself. I mean, I have to imagine it myself, right, and so it will take some time to put together that scenario, and so I don't want bosses to get frustrated if you spend five, ten, fifteen minutes trying to figure out what that logical scenario is, and also not just at the beginning, because a lot of times they'll say, okay, I've got it, I've got it, I've got the scene, but what has happened is they haven't read three quarters of the way down the copy to understand. Well, okay, but that doesn't make sense. Now, right, if you are who you say you are and you're talking to who you say you are, it doesn't make sense that three quarters the way down the script that you're gonna say this, right, so either your scene changed or the person you're talking to changed, or the concept of what you're talking about is not what you thought it was, and so now you've got to delve even deeper into it. And so I find that students get so frustrated it's almost like they get angry at me. When I ask them, I'll be okay. So what's your moment before? And they won't know. And then it'll be like, well, okay, it's this, and I'm like okay, but three quarters the way down the script, it says this so that doesn't make sense. So how is it going to make sense to you? Three quarters the way down the script, right? How are you gonna maintain that believability? Will the scene change? Will you get up and move and go somewhere else? Will you be talking to someone else? Or maybe you'll be transported in another place at this point in time? Either way, whatever it happens, you have to make that decision and commit to it, and then you will sound believable now. Lau So it's really interesting about what you're asking them to do, which is quite maddening. But you're asking them to be a mathematician. You're asking them to think like a chess player. Anne You're asking them to dive deep dive, be lazy. Lau Don't be lazy and chill, back and go. I get the answer no. When I see an actor do that, gone are the days where he used to sit in a waiting room and, you know, wait for auditions to come through. The second I saw an actor whether they were vocal on camera, on a microphone goat yeah, I'm all set. I got it. I knew they weren't gonna get the job. Yeah, I know. Yeah oh yeah, because they weren't talented. Oftentimes they were fabulous, it's just they were not willing to dive deeper to say where do I go from here? where does the tilt happen? Is there a shift? Is there a surprising moment? Anne and there should be right, I mean typically there is in a script, typically there is a script right, there should be there certainly is in life, unless there's a partial script right, but I'm gonna say that most copywriters. There's a rhyme and a reason to copy being written for a company. For the most part, I'm gonna say, right, a company writes copy to ultimately sell something along the line, their brand, a product, a service, whatever that is. They're selling people on a brand. So ultimately there's that goal at the very tail end of it all. If it comes from a company, if it's a script that's not coming from a company, that's talking about a product or a service, it could be, you know, a dialogue or an animation script or an audiobook, and those typically have stories in mind. And I'm gonna say that, because they're written with stories in mind, sometimes it's easier for people to imagine a scene, right? Or if it's written in the first person format, it's easy to kind of imagine a scene and imagine that you're talking to someone else, because you're kind of seeing the dialogue play out in front of you. It's when the scripts are not written necessarily in a storyline format or with an intended story. It's more or less going to be something else that might be anthemic or a little more ethereal, right, and then you're like I have no idea what these words are even talking about. That's where you've really got to engage, I think your imagination and really do some research. Oh, no question about it. Lau I mean actors should be spending half their day doing research. No, when we talk about analysis, we really mean analysis. Like you better have a lexicon ready. Whether you're doing a commercial or you're doing narration, you're doing right audiobook. You have to have not just your transcriptions and your interpretation as an actor, but you have to really know, like, what are the basic concepts of what a writer and an actor think about? I got to know what the plot line is. Is there an arc in this story? Anne where's the epiphany in here right. I call it the crescendo like, or the call the the crescendo or the call to action or the turn point. Right, there's usually something in a story and it may not be obvious, it may not be obvious at all. Right, it might just be like, hey, we have a great product, we have a great product, we have a great product, bye, you know. And then at the end, so like, where's that crescendo? Is there a crescendo? Well, at that point you start making choices right. Typically, I would say there's one point that you want to really call people's attention to. You can create your crescendo. Do some research, find out if it makes sense that the company's underlying message would be this particular one, because a lot of times when you talk about selling products with commercials, there's a lot of features, feature one, feature two, feature three and then come on down and buy. So how do you make that acting decision about where's there a call to action? They all seem like calls to action, and so how do you make one more important than the other? And how do you make that decision? And how do you know and a lot of times you don't A lot of times, as an actor, you have to make an educated and committed guess right as to where that story point is, and I would say that the more that you research, all that you can, the clues from the copy right, there's clues in the copy. The more you can research the clues in the copy, I think, the easier it's going to be to get an answer. And again, a lot of times, when you've come up with your final audition, the casting director, I mean it could be a completely different story than what's really taking place, but the fact is is that you, as an actor, will be committed to that performance and I believe in my heart that within the first two or three words, we can tell and that is what's going to get you the job. Lau That's right. And now we know we've solved the mystery why actors are such excellent, excellent salespeople. It's the same training, the same training. Excellent actors are excellent storytellers are excellent in sales because we're telling a story but we're also creating very deep, strong relationships that are multi-dimensional and very nuanced and very long-term, whether it's with our client or a company or a colleague. It's very, very deep. There's different layers to it and it takes time Sometimes it takes a lifetime to figure out all the layers to it. I can't say, oh, I know Anne. Okay, yeah, I got her. Yeah, I know her. No, you can't do that because you have to let it unfold, like a story unfolds over time.  Anne The onion layers. You have to feeling aware of the onion. Yes, yes. Lau You gotta make new discoveries all the time. If you're not willing to be the archeologist in your own career and you're not gonna dig deep, then you're always gonna be superficial in your work. Anne Sure, absolutely so, La, would you say, because you've got a lot of commercial auditions that come across your desk and you send out a lot as an agent. What would you say Is there a particular timeframe that people should spend on a particular audition, Like, should they spend at least 10 minutes, 15 minutes, half an hour? Do you have an average time or no? Lau I really don't. I just don't. I feel like your profession, your trade, is a personal journey and I really feel like some people have a quick knack to pick something up because they've trained their brain in such a way that they know what cues to look for, so they're able to pick it up and they're able to really do something. Other times we need to sit with it longer. I need the extra hour or two and I need to process it and I need to make some deeper dive choices. So I think it's personal, I think it's professional as well, like based on your training and your history, and I think, like how focused you are, the focus factor has to be there, yeah yeah, I think focus has to be there first and foremost. Anne Like I always tell people, like long format narration is exhausting, because I'm like look, you think commercial is exhausting. You've got to maintain people's attention for 30 to 60 seconds. Now try something that's three or four minutes long, right? So where are you in the scene at two minutes and 56 seconds? Where are you? And what's happening? Joe? Who you're talking to, what's going on with him? Right, you need to tell me. A lot of times I'll be like I'll stop somebody in the middle of the read and I'll say where are you, where's the scene, what's going on? And if they cAnneot tell me, I'll be like, okay, you need to create that scene because you're starting to lose your believability, you're starting to lose your authenticity, and that is just something. When we end up going into automatic mode, we just start. That's cool. I like that exercise. Great, that's good. Lau I also would be remiss to say that if you don't come in, some of the best actors I know are extremely bold, very courageous, sometimes arrogant, sometimes they go over the edge to arrogance, but they own the room, they own the space, they own the mic, they own it all and they don't apologize for any of it. And oftentimes they may Anneoy you as a person, but the stuff they come out with is like probably it, oh, wow, brilliance. Like they do not apologize or take it back or worry for one second. What they did was not precise and perfect, and I think that that's a skill. I think that's a skill to create and then go off and say, wow, did I do the right thing? Can I try something new? Can I learn something new? But when you're in the room, when you're in the space, when you're auditioning or when you're booking the gig, whatever, just own it. Command, presence, Cause I think through the command comes the authority, the credibility, the ethos that we need as actors to take stage. Anne We need that, well, and I think it showcases something to the person listening, right, when you have that confidence and the authority that there is a story there. There is a story that you're telling, that you are committed to, and we don't quite know what that might be, but we're interested, right, and that is really what most people are after. Right, we want to make sure that we get people's attention while we're embedded in that copy. So, and listen. Lau Acting at the end of the day is about personality. It's like ability, it's magnetism. It isn't only the script or the writer, the producer, the vocal actor comes in and it's your presence, it's your energy. It's your enthusiasm. Anne I tell so many of my students that, really, what is it that connects us right when I listen to you or when I meet you, what is it that is connecting us as humans together? A lot of times, it is about your personality and somebody will say to me well, do I have the voice, do I have what it takes to be a voice actor? And I said, well, you've got a beautiful personality. I want you to bring that to the read. I want you to bring the pieces of you that will help me to connect and engage human to human. I mean, maybe you don't have to be nice during the script, but it really depends on the context, right, but I need to have that piece of you that comes through, because that's where I'm connecting, right, that's where I'm connecting. Wow, good stuff. Lau, it's all of that and more. It is all that and more. So, yes, bosses, you need to be actors. Go take an acting class, get coaching, make sure that you are acting between the periods. I always say acting between the periods, acting between the sentence lines, acting from the beginning to the very end. Lau So, Anne, in that note. Alas, poor Anne, we are finished, we shall. Anne Exhunt. Oh guys, you know what? I'll tell you what. What a great episode. Thank you, Lau. Oh, my pleasure. Lau It was awesome. Anne Bosses, do you have a local nonprofit that's close to your heart and ever wish that you could do more to help them? Well, you certainly can visit 100voiceswhocareorg to commit and find out more. And, of course, big kudos to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect in network like bosses. Find out more at ipdtlcom. You guys, we love you. Go be actors and we'll see you next week. Bye, bye, guys. Outro Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL. Anne Or the worst is when they're like, okay, you do the take and they say nothing, right, so it's like you do the 50 a take. Let's do that. That's what it looks like. The 50 a take they're like okay, okay, all right, thank you, we'll be in touch.

Anne is joined by special guest Gillian Pelkonen to pull back the curtain on what it's like to be women in male-dominated industries. They candidly share their experiences, from the challenges and microaggressions they faced, to the emotional weight of feeling valued for their gender over their skills. But it's not all about the struggle. They also highlight the power of a strong support network and share inspiring stories of women who have stood tall in the face of adversity. Drawing from Gillian’s unique insights in the music industry and Anne’s working in tech, this episode is a deep dive into resilience, recognition, and the pursuit of equality. Tune in and join the conversation.   Transcript   Anne Ganguzza: Hey everyone, welcome to the V.O. Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Genguza, and today I am excited to bring back special guest, audio engineer, musician, and all around tech guru, Gillian Pelkonen to the podcast. Yay,   Gillian: Hello,   Anne Ganguzza: Gillian!   Gillian: Hi. Like so excited to talk and I feel like it's been forever since we got on and got to chat.   Anne Ganguzza: I know, I know. And I am so glad to have you here today. And you know, after introducing you as, because every time I talk with you, I experience something new that you know.   Gillian: I'm sorry.   Anne Ganguzza: And just, it's just, you're just, you're amazing, Gillian, if I'm just gonna say   Gillian: Oh,   Anne Ganguzza: that, you're amazing.   Gillian: thank you.   Anne Ganguzza: And I was thinking about this today. I was thinking about this today. I want to talk to you because I feel like you and I are, females in male-dominated fields. Because before I got into voiceover and demo production, I worked as a design engineer. And   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: then after that, I was in technology. And so I've always been working in male-dominated fields. And you, of course, being in the music industry and audio engineer, I think we've probably got a few similar experiences. And I think I'd love to talk to you about that.   Gillian: Yeah, I would love to talk to you as well because I mean, I've only been working for a couple years. I know that you're probably been working for a while and so obviously I'd love to talk to you because Thankfully, I think we have similar but different experiences because all of the work that you've done throughout your life has made my life easier and the trickle down and I just love talking to women mostly because I never see women every time I see a woman I'm like, oh my gosh could I hunkie you? Like   Anne Ganguzza: Ha   Gillian: I   Anne Ganguzza: ha   Gillian: never   Anne Ganguzza: ha!   Gillian: just men all the time or like a woman   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: non-binary person whatever because it's really is true.   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: There's um some statistics I was reading There's a really good article and research that was done I don't remember who but maybe I I'll put it in the show notes, that between producers and audio engineers, women make up 3% and they group producers and audio engineers   Anne Ganguzza: Wow.   Gillian: together within the music industry.   Anne Ganguzza: Wow,   Gillian: Is that crazy?   Anne Ganguzza: that's so small.   Gillian: I   Anne Ganguzza: That   Gillian: know.   Anne Ganguzza: is crazy.   Gillian: I know.   Anne Ganguzza: And I know so many talented females. And   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: I just know, I mean, look, I'm going to be honest with you. When people ask me about my career trajectory, I talk about when I went to college. And I've always been interested in technical and geeky things. I did pretty well in school and so I was encouraged to go into engineering.   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: I went to college and studied mechanical engineering and actually was like one of three females in the entire class that was studying engineering. I   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: grew up in a very small town and so I thought I would always talk about my geeky interests and the fact that I was the only girl that was in wood shop or those things. I always thought, well, it's because I come from a small town. But then when I went to college, and I was in a bigger population, I thought to myself, wow, I really kind of am in a smaller minority   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: in my engineering class because again, there's like three of us. And as a matter of fact, only one ended up graduating the program. I actually transferred into another engineering program and   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: graduated with a degree in computer graphics engineering. So when I got out of school, got a job as a design engineer for an orthopedic company. And thus began my corporate experience of being a female in probably a predominantly male-oriented field. And it was tough. It was really tough because there's, first of all, you don't have a lot of other females to, I guess, bond with about your job. And so. The few that are there, it seemed were, how do I put it, we're all very protective and all very, I think because people who have already been in that situation, I think protective of, protective of your job, protective of maybe your skill set in a way   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: because it was either being, I don't know. challenged   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: or being, yeah, I'm going to say challenged for lack   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: of a better word, but being challenged. And so it was really hard for me to find my footing. And,   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: you know, after that, you know, again, without going through my entire history, I worked in technology. I got out of engineering. Being an engineer in the late 80s was tough. And   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: I'm not, you know, I constantly say that I'm not bitter. And I really   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: wasn't because I was young and I was excited and I loved what I did. And I felt like the fact that I was kind of a smaller minority in the engineering group made me better at what I   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: did because I think I had to work harder and we can talk about that with you. I think working hard is kind of like, I've always been used to working hard anyways,   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: but sometimes I feel like I might have to work. triple hard to get   Gillian: And you   Anne Ganguzza: maybe   Gillian: definitely   Anne Ganguzza: the same recognition.   Gillian: did. It's like totally   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Gillian: not unreasonable to say that you would have had to, just to be taken as seriously as everybody   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Gillian: else.   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah,   Gillian: It's   Anne Ganguzza: yeah.   Gillian: such a   Anne Ganguzza: You know,   Gillian: crazy   Anne Ganguzza: and after that,   Gillian: story, yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: yeah, and then after that, I spent 20 years in technology, which again was another male-dominated field. And so I was constantly being passed by to my male peers because they thought that they were in charge.   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: And so, again, you know, it was just one of those things where I literally... worked my tushy off. And I feel not quite as much, but I also feel like in the voiceover industry, to be a demo producer, a female demo producer, is there's not a lot of them out there.   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: And again, I feel like it's something that I feel like I work very hard at and very proud at it. And I'm very proud of being a demo producer. I love what I do. But let's talk about you. I mean, my goodness.   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: I mean, first of all, being as young as you are and as successful as you are, but I know that you must have gone through a lot of the same experiences as I did in the music industry and   Gillian: I have   Anne Ganguzza: in engineering.   Gillian: to say, I'm still going through it, and unfortunately, I hope not, but I assume I'll be going through it for the rest of my life, and really from talking with other women of various ages. And I really do look up to a lot of other older women because   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: they've gone through it and they can really mentor me. And I feel like between... the no matter what age you are, I just find so much camaraderie and people who really want to mentor me and help me. But the one thing I can say about my experience is that I never feel physically unsafe, which I know was not the case   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: for many people, which is a really scary thing to think about. And I always try to acknowledge that like I have these struggles and I want to talk about my experiences, but the fact that like I go into work and I don't feel physically unsafe is really cool. And it's an insane sentence to have to say, but I know from other people's experiences. things used to be a lot more outright and a lot more pointed and really   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm.   Gillian: mean and the whole point was to be like this is our space and we don't want you here and so we're gonna try to make it difficult for you to stay here. I don't know if that was your experience   Anne Ganguzza: Mm.   Gillian: but I've heard that that's kind of like   Anne Ganguzza: You   Gillian: what   Anne Ganguzza: know,   Gillian: happened.   Anne Ganguzza: very interesting. Very interesting. I never had anybody, like, I never, nobody said that directly. However,   Gillian: Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: I mean, now we're talking another area where there were other ways to try to intimidate   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: me as a female, which lean, you know, toward a me too kind of a thing,   Gillian: Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: where, you know, people are trying to show their power. in   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: multiple ways. And I think as a female in a male-dominated field, if you have those types of issues that happen,   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: they're tough to navigate. Because again, if a woman is seen complaining, or, you know, and that's the thing. I think we were taught for so long to just maybe not say anything because   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: we would be judged.   Gillian: Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: as bitter as, you know, it just, it's, that's, you know, we could, God, we could have a hundred podcast episodes on that. And, and   Gillian: I know   Anne Ganguzza: I think that   Gillian: there's so   Anne Ganguzza: over   Gillian: many   Anne Ganguzza: the   Gillian: things.   Anne Ganguzza: years, right? I mean, over the years, there's really just so many different intimidation tactics   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: that are different in, from male to female.   Gillian: Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: or   Gillian: And   Anne Ganguzza: really   Gillian: I...   Anne Ganguzza: just anybody that's trying to get, and I don't even wanna say male, female, but because it could be non-binary, it could be   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: transgender, it could be a lot of different genders   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: that experience the same thing in a lot of   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: ways.   Gillian: Yeah, and I   Anne Ganguzza: And   Gillian: heard   Anne Ganguzza: I   Gillian: this   Anne Ganguzza: just...   Gillian: uh... The tricky guy.   Anne Ganguzza: Oh no, that's fine,   Gillian: Okay.   Anne Ganguzza: please.   Gillian: Yeah, I   Anne Ganguzza: Continue.   Gillian: heard this amazing thing on a podcast that I listened to because just for concision, to be concise. I'm gonna just say, you know, man, woman, but I did hear this amazing thing where   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: someone who was having a similar conversation was like, when I say woman, I mean someone who is not male, who is like within the minority. So women, when   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: I'm saying it, I'm sure   Anne Ganguzza: Okay.   Gillian: when we're talking about it, encompasses like transgender people, non-binary, and I know that that's not   Anne Ganguzza: Yes,   Gillian: their proper   Anne Ganguzza: yes.   Gillian: gender identity, but like in the discussion of like male, which is the default of women which is like basically could be used to talk about all those other people so I mean that's   Anne Ganguzza: Yes,   Gillian: I thought   Anne Ganguzza: yes,   Gillian: that   Anne Ganguzza: no,   Gillian: was cool   Anne Ganguzza: thank   Gillian: that   Anne Ganguzza: you   Gillian: someone   Anne Ganguzza: for clarifying   Gillian: said that   Anne Ganguzza: that. I   Gillian: yeah   Anne Ganguzza: thought that   Gillian: but   Anne Ganguzza: was the one. Yeah,   Gillian: I'm   Anne Ganguzza: yeah,   Gillian: just   Anne Ganguzza: no,   Gillian: my   Anne Ganguzza: absolutely,   Gillian: experience   Anne Ganguzza: and I'm glad that...   Gillian: as a woman that that's how I'm gonna talk about it because that's how I feel   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: about myself but there's also whether or not like you're Non-binary, if you are in a female presenting body, you do carry the weight of   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: being treated like a woman, which I know is another thing that   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm.   Gillian: people who don't have that gender identity but get grouped in with women and have that female experience.   Anne Ganguzza: Sure.   Gillian: It's such a complicated issue because really we're talking about how other people perceive us, not really how we perceive ourselves in any which way.   Anne Ganguzza: Absolutely.   Gillian: Or that's what I found.   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah,   Gillian: Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: no, I love that. You're right. It is about how people perceive us   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: as opposed to how we perceive ourselves. And wow, that was just, all right, we can go home now because that was   Gillian: Ha   Anne Ganguzza: just   Gillian: ha   Anne Ganguzza: really   Gillian: ha!   Anne Ganguzza: an amazing perceptive. That was so amazing   Gillian: Hehehe   Anne Ganguzza: and perceptive. I love that. And so, I guess, talk to me   Gillian: I   Anne Ganguzza: a   Gillian: kind   Anne Ganguzza: little   Gillian: of,   Anne Ganguzza: bit   Gillian: yeah,   Anne Ganguzza: about   Gillian: I never talked about   Anne Ganguzza: maybe...   Gillian: what   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, I gotta   Gillian: I,   Anne Ganguzza: talk   Gillian: I just keep   Anne Ganguzza: to   Gillian: making   Anne Ganguzza: them.   Gillian: all   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: these like blanket statements, but I should, I'll talk about my specific experience.   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Gillian: briefly,   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: the whole reason that I got into doing what I do now, which is for the most part audio engineering, assistant engineering, freelancing, which I do as a pretty solitary activity, so it's not like there's anything going on there.   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: But I was working in studios as an artist. I was recording. And I was being paired with a lot of male engineers. And I actually had, in all of college, all the engineers   Anne Ganguzza: Mm.   Gillian: I worked with, I had very positive experiences. one engineer who was a woman and I was I just connected with her so well it was such a great working relationship and Realistically, I just wanted more control and knowledge about what I was doing because I love to learn about what I'm interested in. But it was in the front of my mind that there's now a lot of women. I've been doing this for four years and I've been paired with all these men and only one woman and it was my best experience. Like what if I could do that? I feel like I can communicate with people well. All of these things that I think sometimes is lacking in men, which is a complete generalization when I say it and what I was thinking because I was 20 years old. at the time and I also thought well there's not that many women so it'll be a great thing for me to try because there's not many people like me. Sorry   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: my cat's acting up.   Anne Ganguzza: Absolutely.   Gillian: And so   Anne Ganguzza: Oh,   Gillian: I thought about that not...   Anne Ganguzza: I understand that.   Gillian: right? Not taking into account   Anne Ganguzza: Yes,   Gillian: that   Anne Ganguzza: I do.   Gillian: when I got into this male dominated field I would actually have to do it and be surrounded by men all day and I didn't think about all of the things   Anne Ganguzza: Mm.   Gillian: that would come into play like not being taken as seriously because of my gender or... you know, all of the like microaggressions   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm   Gillian: that people say. I just, and also like a weird thing that I still encounter and I'm still dealing with is what I've experienced is by being a woman in a male-dominated field, it's really easy to get your foot in the door, but once you're in the door, that's where like all the complication starts happening,   Anne Ganguzza: Ugh. Mm-hmm.   Gillian: which is crazy. And then there's this whole personal thing that I am still dealing with, which is when I'm working with other women, or if they're, I mean I love when there's another woman in the studio. It is so great, but I do have this weird feeling of, well, I'm only here because I'm a woman. And if there's another woman, then my special thing is no longer special. And the way I'm treated is it makes me think of myself as only my gender, and sometimes I have to step back and be like, you have to be... confident that you're more than just that, even though all day I'm treated like that's all I am.   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: So, I don't know, that's my experience. Those are some things on my mind when I talk about it and how I got here and I guess some of the things that I'm dealing with at the moment within myself.   Anne Ganguzza: Well, I'll tell you what you said about, you know, maybe it made getting in the door a little bit easier. I actually had that perception myself, you know, to   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: get in the door because, you know, employers want to feel like they're, you know, they're treating people fairly and so they need representation. But then you have   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: perception once you're there, right? I always feel like, okay, I got myself here in this position. Now I have to prove that I'm worthy. Right? And I feel like, okay, that's something that maybe, I mean, other people, do they feel the same? Do they have to prove that they're worthy of the position? Because there is perception that, you know what, oh, she's here because she's a, you know, she's a female. You know, I had that at my other job where people were like, well, they want a female in tech as a good role model. right,   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: for, you know, when I worked in the school, right? They want a female because she's a good role model for the kids now, and that's why she got the job. I'm like, but no, really, once I open my mouth, you'll probably hear why I got the job, because I can back it up, right,   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: with intelligence, and I can back it up with knowledge of the job, of which I do.   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: And, you know, it did get to be tiring. you know, to constantly, constantly have to prove myself. Now, I'm gonna tell you that in the majority of situations, at least in my experience, I had a boss who never, I would say, discriminated. As a matter of fact, he was very encouraging. And, but it was so many other people that I came into contact with. And we worked with different vendors. from all across the world, really, who I was a manager. And constantly I would be meeting these people in person that would come into the facility and just pass me by or ask me, like literally ask me if I could get them a coffee. And that was just, I mean, that was just one of those things. And I've got, yeah, no.   Gillian: I get this like   Anne Ganguzza: Or   Gillian: anger inside   Anne Ganguzza: ask me   Gillian: me   Anne Ganguzza: to be   Gillian: hearing   Anne Ganguzza: a secretary.   Gillian: this.   Anne Ganguzza: Well, see what that, I would always be asked, by the way, to volunteer on boards, you know, and of course, there's a thing, like in the corporate world, it was, and I don't know if it's still a thing, but it used to be a thing where if you were on the board, you know, it was a nice asset on your resume. And so people would always ask me to be, well, the president, the vice president, no, they'd say, will you be the secretary? And I'm like, No, I don't take notes. I don't, I don't, you know what I mean? It was just, it came back to that whole like, well, she's female and she's blonde, so she must be the secretary and she must, she'll take the good notes. And I'm like, no, I'm actually really bad at that. Ha ha   Gillian: It's...   Anne Ganguzza: ha.   Gillian: yeah, it's insane. The assumptions that we make about people and like, oh, you're not being good at taking notes. You're like a bad woman. Because if you're   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Gillian: a woman, you know how   Anne Ganguzza: Mm.   Gillian: to make the coffee and take the notes. I get, it's so funny, because nobody will ask you to be a secretary anymore, but they'll like... ask me to do stuff and when I break down what it is it's like secretary oh you should just email the people you're really good at that   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Gillian: you should just talk to people on the phone you're really good at   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: that and i'm like how would you know i'm good at that i've never done it i mean i would be   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah,   Gillian: because i'm good at a lot   Anne Ganguzza: exactly.   Gillian: of things but it's so crazy and honestly i know you were saying earlier about being bitter and it's like i'm not bitter i'm angry. Like I get so angry, the stuff that people say, and especially I get mad about myself, but I get mad about other people too, because it's the fact that we have to go through this. And sometimes I think to myself, like, how good could I be at my job if I didn't have to worry about my gender all day or be fighting these comments all day? Like   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Gillian: it's, it's so crazy the things that people have, I mean I could, I could say like the ridiculous things people have said to me. I get really frustrated. when people treat treat it like it's cute that I'm working, like it's an option, like, oh, it's   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Gillian: so cute that you're doing this or doing that. I'm learning some more technical stuff. I'm training to be a tech assistant in a studio, which would basically mean that if gear broke, I would know how to fix it. I'm helping him in the sense that if he has a piece of gear, it'll be like, oh, you do this part. Like today we built some XLR cables and   Anne Ganguzza: Mm.   Gillian: then we built some instrument cables and he was working on the inside of a piece of gear. So he was that when I need to put them back in like they're ready, stuff like that. And some guy came, some guy I'd never met before came in and saw that I was I was soldering and I was building this cable and he was like, oh do you have a license to do that? And the tech   Anne Ganguzza: My God!   Gillian: technician was like, I don't have a license to do this, like what are you talking about? Like it was just... I'm like, just because I'm doing something you perceive I shouldn't be doing, you're gonna like, make a comment about   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Gillian: it? So   Anne Ganguzza: Now,   Gillian: weird.   Anne Ganguzza: let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question. Do you think age has anything to do with it? I mean, was it an older person, or was it a younger   Gillian: Yes.   Anne Ganguzza: person? Do you find that you   Gillian: Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: get flack from both younger   Gillian: I do think...yeah,   Anne Ganguzza: and maybe all ages?   Gillian: I find that older people have older views, like, or more... archaic is such a bad word, but like, archaic views of like,   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Gillian: this is what a woman should do. I mean, I've had... Yeah, especially I think yes. The answer is yes. When I work with people who are who are older I do find That they're less open-minded to anybody of any   Anne Ganguzza: Mm.   Gillian: gender   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: identity doing things Which I do understand to some extent because their world Was that way and it's just not that way anymore so I sometimes with I don't know I try to have more patience   Anne Ganguzza: Well   Gillian: with   Anne Ganguzza: then,   Gillian: people like   Anne Ganguzza: then   Gillian: that,   Anne Ganguzza: you might   Gillian: but   Anne Ganguzza: have, yeah, I was gonna say then it might be a combination of, is it because you're female or is it because you're young?   Gillian: Oh yeah,   Anne Ganguzza: There's   Gillian: for   Anne Ganguzza: that   Gillian: me.   Anne Ganguzza: as well, you know? Mm-hmm,   Gillian: I   Anne Ganguzza: mm-hmm.   Gillian: find it's like a double whammy of terrible. It's like, well, you're young and experienced. But I do, whenever   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Gillian: I'm doubting myself, and if there's anyone out there who's listening to this and is doubting themselves, I always ask, would the same question be asked or be appropriate to be asked to a male coworker?   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: And that always answers my question.   Anne Ganguzza: Now, I think, mm-hmm. Now, you know, it's so interesting because here we are doing a podcast and we're talking about our experiences about being in a male-dominated field and what has happened to us. And yet, I feel like I have to explain to the audience right now that, you know, I'm not bitter. Uh... I really don't feel better. I mean, there's, so there are things that I feel are maybe not just, and I've, you know, I feel like I've lived my life long enough to understand that, okay, there are things that are not just in this world   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: and, you know, I have to kind of suck it up, buttercup, and, you know, and deal with it. I will say. And I don't want to apologize or say to the bosses out there that I'm sorry for this conversation or feel like   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: I need to tread lightly. But I will say that some of the positives that have come out of, I guess, maybe not being treated as fair as we would like is that I worked harder, and because I worked harder, I got better. And   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: I'm proud of that. I don't feel like maybe I shouldn't have had to work so hard, but I do feel proud of the fact that I am capable and very competent   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: at what I do. And I think that that's been a positive that's happened. And I do believe that over the years, I feel that women have been speaking up more. And I feel like that's a good thing because it needs to be something, it needs to be talked about. It just needs to be talked about.   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: And I think the more we talk about things, and this is in any situation, right? I mean, I just feel that if the conversations are open and they've begun, then we can start to heal and move forward and have progress.   Gillian: Yeah, and I think I agree that there have been a lot of things in my life that I've had to work harder than I should have or something happened and I had to do something at someone else who with a different experience may not have that has made me the person I am, but I do wish that things were different because I'm sure even without having to work harder   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: you were very good at your job. And I feel like I'm...   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-mm. Yeah.   Gillian: I'm doing what I'm doing   Anne Ganguzza: You   Gillian: and   Anne Ganguzza: were   Gillian: you   Anne Ganguzza: too.   Gillian: did   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: what you're doing and hopefully throughout your lifetime and my lifetime we just keep pushing the needle. I do really like talking about it because I like listening to people talk about it. It's so cathartic to not be   Anne Ganguzza: Mm.   Gillian: gaslit into thinking that, oh maybe it   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm.   Gillian: really is just because I'm not good at my job. I'm not capable. I deserve to be, you know, passed over for promotions or not being taken seriously or not being asked   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Gillian: to be the VP on the committee or whatever   Anne Ganguzza: Sure.   Gillian: it was. Like maybe I am only the secretary and I just don't think that that's true.   Anne Ganguzza: Well, yeah, and I think it's such a valid point that you bring up that we question ourselves.   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: And as long as I've been in industries, and as long as I've been alive and working hard and feeling like I got great at what I did or am becoming a better person and being better at it, I also still question myself. And I still self-sabotage myself once in a while, and I know better. And   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: I think it's something that's very real for   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: I think a lot of women.   Gillian: Mm.   Anne Ganguzza: Gosh, you know, I totally get that. I mean,   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: I get it, I understand it. And so what do you do, you know, what do you do, Gillian, to, I don't know, bring yourself out of that? Because it's so easy to talk yourself into, you know, that kind of a funk where you're like, oh, you know, maybe I don't deserve this job, or maybe, you know, these people are better than me.   Gillian: I honestly, I don't know what I mean. What do I do? I mean, I haven't stopped doing what I'm doing yet, which is just continuing   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah,   Gillian: to show   Anne Ganguzza: yeah,   Gillian: up.   Anne Ganguzza: yeah.   Gillian: I think because I love what I do. For me, feeling like I'm not good enough, that makes me want to show up more, which is kind of like what you said, you've worked harder.   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Mm-hmm.   Gillian: And really the reason that I don't give up first, I mean... I really think it's because I do love what I do and because of the people that I've spoken to and knowing that as hard as I perceive that I have it, it has been harder. And hopefully, I just keep working to hope that 10 years from now I'll meet someone who's telling me about their problems and I'll be relieved that they're not the problems that I had. And knowing that by sh-   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: basically, I kinda said this earlier, but whether it's intentional or subconscious or unintentional, for minority groups in a work setting is to push them out. And I'm kind of determined not to be pushed out. And so I guess that's really like   Anne Ganguzza: Mm, mm-hmm.   Gillian: the motivating factor is to just be   Anne Ganguzza: Sure.   Gillian: like, you can bully me, but like you can't bully me out of my job because I wanna be one day someone who is higher up who can have a diverse group of people and a diverse group of voices in the room, whether or not the people who are currently in the room   Anne Ganguzza: Sure.   Gillian: want to see that day. So I don't know,   Anne Ganguzza: And   Gillian: what is it for you?   Anne Ganguzza: I'll tell you, you know, it's, well, I think talking to people helped me, you know, other people. that are in similar kind of situations. Like talking to you actually is helpful. And just knowing that you're not fighting it alone, I think that's number one. And I look to people that I see as examples. I mean, I had a wonderful representative that I worked with a long time ago who was in the middle of transitioning to a woman. And... And she held a very high ranking position in the company that   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: I was dealing with. And she was just the bravest soul,   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: because it was about 20 years ago, if not longer.   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: And she refused to quit   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: her job. And I know that it could not have been easy for her. And   Gillian: I don't   Anne Ganguzza: so   Gillian: think it's easy   Anne Ganguzza: I constantly   Gillian: now.   Anne Ganguzza: thought that   Gillian: Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: she Yeah, and I don't think it's easy, but I constantly think about that. And I just say, you know what, I think if she could do it, if she could have the courage to kind of stick it out and   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: just stand up for what is right and what is just, because she was excellent at her job,   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: and did not be pushed out by the... And it was a very large company that was kind of... That could have had that mentality that   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: a little bit more old school.   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: I'm quite sure 20 years ago, it was not something that people did every day.   Gillian: No,   Anne Ganguzza: It just wasn't.   Gillian: yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: It was a different time then. And I'm thankful that we have people out there today that are defiant and   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: willing to stand up for who they are and willing to, I guess, fight or defend what they do.   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: in the environment that they do because they're good at it and for no other reason right that they are doing what they do And they don't have to necessarily prove to anyone That they you know can do the job   Gillian: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's a big burden that gets put on us for to just,   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Gillian: you know, be doing that. But yeah, oh, I had a train of thought and then I lost it because I was into what you were saying. But even like the VioBoss podcast, so many women on this podcast and so many voices that get to be heard, which   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Gillian: is like so amazing. I mean, you're still doing the work and all of the stuff. And like, I always   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm.   Gillian: like when I see women who did it, like my mom did it. She worked on Wall Street in a time that like... when   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm.   Gillian: there weren't many women doing it. And I always want to be like, thank you for your service, because it literally is because it's so difficult to like endure it. And everyone has their different coping   Anne Ganguzza: Sure.   Gillian: mechanisms and everyone does it in a different way. And we were talking about this before we went on air, but like everybody. hates women, like men hate women and women are taught to hate each other and I feel like there's a lot of stuff   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm.   Gillian: of like, you're not doing it right or like you're acting a certain way and it's like we're all just trying to get through it and the more that we can realize that like we   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Gillian: do have each other, we don't need to fight each other, we can actually like be stronger as a group, then that'd be great if we did that more often.   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. I mean, I love that sentiment. But you're right. I mean, you know, I feel like sometimes even from women, it's hard, you know, because there's so many different preconceived notions about what women, you know, what they should be doing, if they're   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: capable of, you know, what, you know, should. I mean, gosh, I feel like we're going backwards in time. I mean, well, that's a whole nother podcast, but   Gillian: Hahaha!   Anne Ganguzza: politically, I mean, we're talking about, you know, you know, just rights, human rights, basic human   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: rights. And, you know, I think, again, I love the fact that we are opening a dialogue here. And   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: I'll tell you what, I mean, we could probably do five or six more podcasts, if not 105. But   Gillian: Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: I do want to say I really appreciate, really appreciate your input. And I'm glad that you were open to discussing this with me, because I think it took courage. It took courage to do that. And so, yes, I love that. And bosses out there, we'd love to hear from you, love to hear   Gillian: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: what your thoughts are. And just I think if we can all just... Do what we do best and be confident in that and not have to worry about gender playing any type of a role in it. I think it would just be a better world.   Gillian: Yeah. And thank you for using this podcast and this platform to talk about this because clearly without talking about it in the choices, you are talking about it, but it is really good to talk about it. And I'd love to   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Gillian: continue the conversation, involve more people, more bosses, more hosts just to talk about our experience because   Anne Ganguzza: Yes.   Gillian: it makes us feel less alone. And bosses, when you're out   Anne Ganguzza: Absolutely.   Gillian: there working your little butts off, we see you. And if it's   Anne Ganguzza: Hehehehehehe   Gillian: hard, you have two friends who are- cheering for you.   Anne Ganguzza: Yes. Oh my God, what a wonderful, beautiful way to end that. Thank you, Gillian, so much. Bosses, I am going to ask you if you have a local nonprofit that's close to your heart, if you're wishing that you can do more to help them, you certainly can. Visit 100VoicesWhoCare.org to learn how. And a big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can connect and network like bosses and find out more at IPDTL.com. Guys, have an amazing week. and we'll see you next week. Thanks so much. Bye.

What fuels your entrepreneurial spirit? The key lies in having a robust support system. This week, Anne & Lau talk about the indispensable role of support in the journey of entrepreneurship. They explore how the encouragement from our loved ones serves as a pillar of strength during challenging times, and discuss ways to navigate situations where support is shaky or absent. They also dive into the essence of financial independence and the peace it can infuse into relationships. Unraveling the secret to keeping your business finances organized and the wonders of a dedicated workspace, they guide you on a path of entrepreneurial success. Entrepreneurship can often feel like a lonely journey, but remember Bosses, you're not alone!   Transcript   It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne Ganguzza: Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Gangusa, and I am here with the one and only, most beautiful, Lau Lapides.   Lau Lapides: Oh, thank you Anne. Hey   Anne Ganguzza: Hey, Lau.   Lau Lapides: everyone. Wonderful to see ya.   Anne Ganguzza: Law, I've been very reflective this week.   Lau Lapides: Oh,   Anne Ganguzza: Yes.   Lau Lapides: I love that chair.   Anne Ganguzza: Very reflective because I was thinking about, oh gosh, I've just been reading. There's so much chaos out there in social media and stuff, and I was thinking to myself, I feel so lucky to have my supportive group that supports me in my business. I know that not everybody has that.   Lau Lapides: Mmm.   Anne Ganguzza: And I thought we should talk about your VO support group, people that support you, and especially people close to you and your family. I don't know where I would be if my husband did not support this endeavor of mine, because it really does, it really takes, I think it takes courage because... Being an entrepreneur, running your own business, it's so much different than the corporate life that I used to lead where   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: I just got paid every other week and I could depend on that paycheck. And I know that the way that this industry just kind of is up and down and crazy, it takes a lot for   Lau Lapides: Yeah, yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: someone to support that.   Lau Lapides: And gratitude is great. And   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm.   Lau Lapides: we really have to have, honestly, we have to have gratitude. It's so important to just celebrate the moments that we do share with our loved ones, our family, our friends, our colleagues, our really our circle, you know, our inner circle, our   Anne Ganguzza: Mm.   Lau Lapides: outer circle that really helps support us. And like reflect as you said, where would we be? without these people would we be where we are? And I'm going to be even non-PC for a moment and say, where would we be without these people simply tolerating us? Like think about that. Like what person slash woman you know would even say such a thing. But the truth is it's hard. It's a hard life in a lot of ways.   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm, so   Lau Lapides: And   Anne Ganguzza: many   Lau Lapides: it's   Anne Ganguzza: ways.   Lau Lapides: difficult. And we show the stress of it at times.   Anne Ganguzza: Sure.   Lau Lapides: We show the impatience, we show the fast moving, we show the exhaustion. And to have that group, that circle, not only support it, but tolerate it,   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: when they may not be experiencing that, they may not live that kind of lifestyle, they may not even understand it, but yet they're tolerating it, they're welcoming it, and then they're building you up. That is unbelievable when you have that on your   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah,   Lau Lapides: side.   Anne Ganguzza: yeah. And I think there's so much that as bosses, right, that we don't anticipate having to experience or know or, I guess, go through when you own your own company. There's just so many things that I think, I don't know if you can prepare yourself. Do you know what I mean? You can prepare yourself for, you know, I guess technically, right? You   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: know, oh, it takes, these are the steps that you need to, you know, create a business entity. These are the steps you need to market your business. These are the steps. So there's these technical steps that we follow, but then if things don't go the way that we hope them to go, right,   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: that can just throw a whole wrench into... the business and in your mental outlook. And that is something that I think I was unprepared for, the uncertainties of it and handling the uncertainties of that. And then of course, anybody that supports me   Lau Lapides: Mmm.   Anne Ganguzza: has to go through all these emotions with me. And that is asking a lot. So again, I'm very, very grateful that I do have that support. And bosses, I mean, I know this is difficult, and you may not even know, right? Down the road, what sort of things could happen that might, I don't know, change the way that your support system feels about voiceover or being a voiceover entrepreneur, and especially these days with the disruptive technologies that are out there. I can't imagine, I do know that there's a lot of people that are... uncertain about what's happening in the future. And so I think their support system is also like seeing that, reading that. How do you, what would you say for people that aren't experiencing support from their family? What can they do?   Lau Lapides: Gosh, I was just about to ask you, this is the rhetorical question of the day is like, what do we do when we don't have the support or when we feel completely alone or when we have a partner or a spouse   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: or even a child or even a best friend that is sabotaging your dreams   Anne Ganguzza: Mm.   Lau Lapides: or   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: getting in the way, maybe they're sucking all the time. the energy from you. Maybe they're dragging you down in the   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm.   Lau Lapides: mud with their own problems, maybe, right? And you think,   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah?   Lau Lapides: wow, who is there with me to go on this journey and really help me through, support me through this? I don't really have that many   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: people to do that. And I think there are a couple things that we can do to sort of band-aid that situation. I'm not   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-mm.   Lau Lapides: so sure you can ever totally fix it, but the one thing I would like to suggest, and I have a few clients like this too, sneaking around the bushes so that their husband doesn't find out   Anne Ganguzza: Mm.   Lau Lapides: that they're spending the little bit of tertiary income on   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah,   Lau Lapides: on lessons.   Anne Ganguzza: coaching or yeah.   Lau Lapides: I say listen you know um it's easy for me to say listen just be brave and just tell them and just   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: you know stand up to it but I'm not in that relationship and   Anne Ganguzza: Sure.   Lau Lapides: I don't know the the dynamics of what's going on so in essence I don't really have the right to say that one thing I can say that has worked for me in many times of my life is If there is someone that is not working out, they're not positive minded, they don't have the forward thinking, upward mobility energy   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: that   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: I crave and that I want in my connections, I simply cut them loose. Not in a bad way,   Anne Ganguzza: way,   Lau Lapides: not   Anne Ganguzza: not   Lau Lapides: in a   Anne Ganguzza: in   Lau Lapides: toxic   Anne Ganguzza: a toxic   Lau Lapides: way,   Anne Ganguzza: way,   Lau Lapides: not in   Anne Ganguzza: not in   Lau Lapides: an   Anne Ganguzza: an   Lau Lapides: angry   Anne Ganguzza: angry   Lau Lapides: way,   Anne Ganguzza: way,   Lau Lapides: but in   Anne Ganguzza: but   Lau Lapides: a   Anne Ganguzza: in   Lau Lapides: way   Anne Ganguzza: a way   Lau Lapides: where   Anne Ganguzza: where   Lau Lapides: I sort   Anne Ganguzza: I sort   Lau Lapides: of prioritize   Anne Ganguzza: of prioritize that   Lau Lapides: that   Anne Ganguzza: they're   Lau Lapides: they're not   Anne Ganguzza: not   Lau Lapides: going   Anne Ganguzza: going   Lau Lapides: to   Anne Ganguzza: to   Lau Lapides: be   Anne Ganguzza: be   Lau Lapides: taking   Anne Ganguzza: taking   Lau Lapides: a lot   Anne Ganguzza: a lot   Lau Lapides: of my   Anne Ganguzza: of my   Lau Lapides: time.   Anne Ganguzza: time.   Lau Lapides: They're not going to be. forefront in my life because I have to keep my goals alive. And finding those, we talked about this once before, those growth people. Where are   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: those growth people   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: that can help me through that I can soundboard to, that I can vent to, that I can learn from, that can help me grow and also validate me? Like   Anne Ganguzza: Sure.   Lau Lapides: really validate the choices. So finding whether it's an accountability group or self-help group   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: or just a friend that is also working on a career where they're   Anne Ganguzza: where they're   Lau Lapides: moving   Anne Ganguzza: moving   Lau Lapides: up,   Anne Ganguzza: up   Lau Lapides: but   Anne Ganguzza: but   Lau Lapides: others   Anne Ganguzza: others   Lau Lapides: are   Anne Ganguzza: are. Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: holding them down, is to help each other grow and get to the next step.   Anne Ganguzza: Right, right.   Lau Lapides: Get a buddy.   Anne Ganguzza: And I, well, I'll tell you what, and I think that that's absolutely something that if you are not getting support, let's say from your spouse or significant other, that I think is almost critical for you to, you know, to survive in the industry. Because I know I've had a few people that I know where their spouses were not in support and consistently   Lau Lapides: Yeah,   Anne Ganguzza: were dragging them down.   Lau Lapides: I have two.   Anne Ganguzza: consistently demanding, you know, where's the money going? Why are you not making any money? You know, you need to help support the family, get a real income, or whatever it is, right? It's hard enough to run your own business and to deal with the uncertainties that you face with your own, maybe, insecurities, in maybe, I'm not familiar with this territory, and I need to learn more, and I need to, you know, what do I need to do to make it? to make it successful, let alone having the people around you, right, trying to bring you down or sabotage you, as you mentioned. So   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: that's   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: very difficult. So it's super important to have that support somewhere to keep you lifted up and to keep your momentum going forward   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: in that situation.   Lau Lapides: And you know what I've seen too, more often than not, that the family or the close people to this   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: person, it's not that they're unsupportive or they're against them. It's just they're not actively or proactively doing things to make their path easier. So   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm.   Lau Lapides: I'll give you an example. A mom who's got children, whether they're young children or whether they're teenage children, whatever. I've heard this from several of my clients, like it took forever. And like, don't you have a setup? Where's your studio? Where's your   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: desk? Are you setting up a mic? Months and months and months and months would go by. I'd say, what's going on? It's not a money issue. No, it's just, you know, I can't find space in my house. You know, my   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm.   Lau Lapides: kid needs the space for football and my other kid needs the space for this. Then my husband wants the space for his disc. And then   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: and I said, well, wait a second. Where's your space? Where's your studio?   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: Where's   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: your identity? So it's that idea of that liberation and that freedom and that courage to say, I count too, I matter too. This is not the only role I play   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm,   Lau Lapides: as mom   Anne Ganguzza: mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: or dad,   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Mom or,   Lau Lapides: since   Anne Ganguzza: do   Lau Lapides: we have   Anne Ganguzza: you have   Lau Lapides: a lot   Anne Ganguzza: a spouse?   Lau Lapides: of dads   Anne Ganguzza: Yep,   Lau Lapides: at   Anne Ganguzza: mm-hmm,   Lau Lapides: home too.   Anne Ganguzza: yep.   Lau Lapides: Dad, I'm not only dad, I'm not only a breadwinner. I'm someone who's a creative, I'm an   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: artist, and I wanna be a talent, and I'm moving towards this. So I have to have the respect zone   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: of   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: my   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: space and really claim that. That's actually, I've seen that a lot, Ann.   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah,   Lau Lapides: I've seen   Anne Ganguzza: yeah.   Lau Lapides: that more often than not.   Anne Ganguzza: Oh, absolutely. And it makes it doubly hard or triple difficult for, I think, these people to gain traction in the industry because it's almost like they have to prove themselves before they'll get any support.   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: You know, well, when are you going to get a voice-over job? I mean, when are you going to book something? That kind of a thing. And so it's always an uphill climb to get that space, that recording space, to get that that, you know, they have to either go out and get a part-time job so they can make money so they can pay for coaching, so they can get a demo. But I'll tell you what, I would say that the majority of my clients who I have found that have done that and have persevered. through that have been some of the most successful   Lau Lapides: Yes.   Anne Ganguzza: voiceover businesses that I know now because they have the resilience   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: and they had the commitment and through it all they persevered. and were   Lau Lapides: Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: able to finally, you know, and not only prove to themselves, but end up proving to any of the members of the family that we're not necessarily as supportive as they could have been, that this is a viable career. It is a viable, you know, it is a viable thing for me to do and to make money at it.   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. And you just said it earlier, you know, don't just ask, ask. You got to give too. So don't just ask for space and what you need. Be willing to work a little harder. Be willing to work   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm.   Lau Lapides: extra.   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: One suggestion I'd like to make too that seems kind of like, oh, but isn't that like a 1952 thing? No, it's not. I'm not suggesting to separate all of your finances in your life. That's how   Anne Ganguzza: Mm.   Lau Lapides: whatever you're gonna do with your spouse, with your partner is what you're gonna do. But I'm just talking about our career, your career, your space as a talent, have separate finances. And that way, not only can   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: you track for your tax purposes and your studio expenses, and it keeps it really clean for your bookkeeper and your accountants at the   Anne Ganguzza: Yep,   Lau Lapides: end of   Anne Ganguzza: absolutely.   Lau Lapides: the year, but it also keeps this anonymity or privacy about not having to ask permission of the other all the time   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: to get what you need or what you want for your career. Like   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: that should be your choice and your independent choice and if it comes down to money, well maybe you do need to get another   Anne Ganguzza: Sure.   Lau Lapides: side job or another   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: hustle or   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: another whatever so that you can have that privacy ready to go when you need it rather than depending on allowances   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: from others.   Anne Ganguzza: And I love that you said that. And I think honestly, if you want to talk about the single biggest thing that I think that is lacking from the clients who don't get the support from their significant other spouse, it is the financial aspect of it. And so yeah, and I always look before there was even voiceover.   Lau Lapides: Hmm?   Anne Ganguzza: I don't know what it was, but personally when I got married, I always had my own account. I had my account, you know, I was on my own before I met my husband. We met each other late in life. And so I, you know, I had my own account. I owned a house and that kind of thing. And what I love about that is it made me financially independent.   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: And I was able to, when my husband and I got married, I just said, well, I'm keeping my account and you keep your account and we'll just have a joint account that we both will   Lau Lapides: Yeah,   Anne Ganguzza: put   Lau Lapides: yeah,   Anne Ganguzza: in.   Lau Lapides: yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: But nothing has to go into the main account unless we decide to put it in. We both kept separate accounts. And I was able to keep track. And first of all, it makes it super easy when you are creating a business, right, to keep your   Lau Lapides: Yes.   Anne Ganguzza: business finances separate.   Lau Lapides: Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: And that's kind of cool because any of you that might have trouble explaining, Why do you need a separate account? Well, it's a business, right? So therefore   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: you have a separate account. You can do whatever you need to do to put money in that account so that you can make investments, take the money out of that account for coaching, demos, studio space, whatever it is that you need to grow your business. And I think that that has really been something that for me, I mean... They say that a lot of couples argue, and money is the number one thing that they might argue about. I can't say that I've ever argued about money   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: since having an independent account. And   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: having the respect that I have one, my spouse has one, and we also have a joint account that we throw money in, if we want to take a vacation, or we want to landscape the backyard, or whatever it might be,   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: we... put into that account, but there's   Lau Lapides: That's   Anne Ganguzza: no expectations.   Lau Lapides: right.   Anne Ganguzza: And I think   Lau Lapides: That's   Anne Ganguzza: that's   Lau Lapides: right.   Anne Ganguzza: such a great suggestion law for anybody that might be experiencing difficulties or lack of support from a significant other, is just go and open that business account, right? Because you need one anyways, in order to incorporate or run that business efficiently and effectively.   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. And then this was a running joke between one of my colleagues and myself at my studio. It was like, well, I literally, law, literally could not find any space in my house for my studio. I   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: couldn't, it either had a technical issue or my kids were there or the   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: TV was on or the dogs were there. I said, great. Now you need to get a she shed.   Anne Ganguzza: Yes, absolutely, as   Lau Lapides: Or   Anne Ganguzza: she   Lau Lapides: a   Anne Ganguzza: said.   Lau Lapides: he shed   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: or a they   Anne Ganguzza: Uh,   Lau Lapides: shed. I   Anne Ganguzza: yep.   Lau Lapides: don't care what pronoun   Anne Ganguzza: Yep.   Lau Lapides: you use, but you need   Anne Ganguzza: Yep.   Lau Lapides: a shed.   Anne Ganguzza: You need a pronoun shed.   Lau Lapides: Yes, you need a pronoun shed that is an independent structure that stands on its own separate from your dwelling   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: Because I am a person of no excuses. I just don't think there's an excuse for not being able to work I think   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah,   Lau Lapides: like if you   Anne Ganguzza: yeah.   Lau Lapides: have a problem fix it like   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: make it into this well, but it's expensive Well, it's an investment. It's   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah,   Lau Lapides: a write-off.   Anne Ganguzza: right.   Lau Lapides: It's not a cost, it's a write-off. And it's your private space.   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm,   Lau Lapides: You can decorate   Anne Ganguzza: absolutely.   Lau Lapides: it. You can put up whatever you need to put up. You can scream. You can do   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: yourself tapes. You can do your MP3s. And it's freedom for you. And I think that if you can't find anything in your apartment or anything anywhere, they say, wait a second, I don't own the land law. I'm in an apartment. What do I do there? Well,   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: think about that. Where can you go? that you can either build something   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: or you can rent something by the hour. Now   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: people are dying to get you into their podcast spaces and their audio spaces to rent by the hour because so many people are at home that   Anne Ganguzza: that   Lau Lapides: they   Anne Ganguzza: they   Lau Lapides: can't even   Anne Ganguzza: can't   Lau Lapides: rent.   Anne Ganguzza: even rent.   Lau Lapides: You can   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: go to places like workspaces and staples   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: and   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: all sorts of places really cheaply. and rent by the hour. I mean, is   Anne Ganguzza: Is   Lau Lapides: it a fix forever? No, but   Anne Ganguzza: it a fix forever?   Lau Lapides: it's   Anne Ganguzza: No. Yeah.   Lau Lapides: in the interim,   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: it's good   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: now until you figure out your next move. Like   Anne Ganguzza: Absolutely.   Lau Lapides: there's always an answer to   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: that.   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, there's always a solution. I truly believe there is always a solution, if you want it bad enough, right? I mean,   Lau Lapides: Hehe,   Anne Ganguzza: gosh,   Lau Lapides: yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: we travel and we record in hotels. So   Lau Lapides: Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: pillow forts. I mean, there is a solution, pillow forts. Uh. and the right mic and the right interface will get you, you know, a place, your car.   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: If you can go to the car, that can be a studio. So I think where there's a will, there's a way. And I will say that, you know, having that, definitely having that independent financial account that allows you to, you know. draw upon that for investment into your she shed, into your renting of a studio, or your rig that allows you to go to the car to record and do your auditions. Whatever that might be, I think that there is a solution for it. And in the interim, I think it just, the tenacity and just keeping through it, making sure that you have support somewhere. that can keep you lifted up, going towards, heading towards your goal. I think that's just very, very important. There's a lot of wonderful supportive communities here. At VOBoss here, we're here to support you. Accountability groups are amazing.   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: Community groups are amazing. Lots of great Facebook groups out there. I've got my VOP's group and Law, you've got your group   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: as well. And, you know... And Bev Stani has the water cooler group, which is just kind of fun if you want to get together with other voice of artists. I know there's so many wonderful accountability groups that can really help in that situation. And yeah, I mean, I   Lau Lapides: I   Anne Ganguzza: think   Lau Lapides: think   Anne Ganguzza: there's...   Lau Lapides: too, Ann, along with that, like hand in hand, depending on what your belief system is, sometimes you need spiritual groups as well.   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm, mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: Sometimes you need people that are going to lift your spirit, whether you're religious or not   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: religious, whether you wanna talk mystical or not, but you find the right match for yourself that helps you build the courage up, that if you are   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: alone and on your own and you're   Anne Ganguzza: Sure.   Lau Lapides: isolated and you're not accepted in the family, your friends circle, that there are groups out there that are going to help lift you up as a person, not   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: just as a talent, but as a human being in the world to give you courage. And one more tip I got for you too is, and we will all want to do this, we have to be really guarded about it, like don't overshare. Be careful.   Anne Ganguzza: Mmm.   Lau Lapides: Don't overshare with people   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: that you know are going to tear you down.   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: They're going to put up the walls as to why you can't, shouldn't.   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: not supposed to do things,   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: don't share too much with those people. Let the sharing go to the people who are like-minded, people who are going   Anne Ganguzza: Sure.   Lau Lapides: to raise your spirit,   Anne Ganguzza: Absolutely.   Lau Lapides: raise your vibration, and get you excited about it versus   Anne Ganguzza: Mm.   Lau Lapides: the people who are going to give you every reason in the book why not to do it.   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, yeah, exactly, and why you can't and why you won't succeed. Absolutely.   Lau Lapides: Yeah. Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: So, yeah, absolutely. What's the wonderful advice law?   Lau Lapides: So exciting, right? Like where there's a will, there's a way, but it's really true, there   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: is. There's   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah.   Lau Lapides: always a way to do things that you love to and want to and deserve to do. And just having the knowledge of like, write down your mantras, write down   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: your affirmations every morning, stick them on your fridge or wherever you stick them and say, I deserve this. I need this. I want this. I matter. And just believe it.   Anne Ganguzza: Absolutely.   Lau Lapides: And then you'll get it if you believe it.   Anne Ganguzza: And guys, I'm going to say, like, this just transcends even just voiceover industry. This is for anything that you want to do,   Lau Lapides: Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: right? As entrepreneurs, as bosses, I mean, whether it's voiceover or something else that is aligned with voiceover or acting or whatever it may be, I truly believe that you can... you can get the support where there's a will, there's a way. And I love that you brought up the spiritual aspect of it too, because it is so personal, right? It does affect us being an entrepreneur, and not just a voiceover actor, not just an actor, but being an entrepreneur and running your own business and having a dream and pursuing that dream. It is something so personal to us that, you know, it- It transcends just voiceover groups or voiceover, you know, accountability groups or Facebook groups. It really, you just need to have the people that can help lift you up no matter where.   Lau Lapides: Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza: No matter where you get that. And, you know, spiritually is amazing, is an amazing source   Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza: of being able to have a group of people that can lift you up and support you when you need.   Lau Lapides: Yeah, and give yourself that little bit of extra self-care   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: that you may need, that you may   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: be missing in your life, whether it's a massage treatment or   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: an extra whatever, so that you've got that extra bit of health, of mindset, of balance that you need to get stronger and find the right people to get on your side. And you'll absolutely do it. People have come from really, really challenging backgrounds   Anne Ganguzza: Oh yeah.   Lau Lapides: with nothing and have become everything.   Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm.   Lau Lapides: So it really is mind over matter for sure.   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, yeah. What a great discussion, Law.   Lau Lapides: Beautiful.   Anne Ganguzza: Yeah,   Lau Lapides: I loved   Anne Ganguzza: we have   Lau Lapides: it.   Anne Ganguzza: the faith in you, bosses. We definitely,   Lau Lapides: We do.   Anne Ganguzza: we have faith in you. And again, VOBoss, we're here for you guys. And, you know, go out there and believe in yourself. Find people that will help support and lift you up. And yeah, I love it. I love it. And   Lau Lapides: You can do it.   Anne Ganguzza: guys, as individuals, it may seem difficult to make a huge impact, but as a group, We can certainly contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never thought possible. Visit 100VoicesWhoCare.org to learn how. Also a big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can network and connect like bosses using amazing technology. Find out more at IPDTL.com. You guys have a great week and we'll see you next week. Bye.   Lau Lapides: See you next week.

Being a boss isn't just about calling the shots, it's a delicate balancing act that requires continuous learning, effective people management, and navigating the complexities of business growth. Anne & Lau unpack the multifaceted nature of being a BOSS - the responsibilities, the challenges, the triumphs, and everything in between. Listen in as they share their personal experiences and insights on managing people, mastering outsourcing, and balancing the dynamics of a growing business. You'll learn the significance of industry education, the art of hiring the right people, and the need for continuous learning and adaptability. Plus, they delve into the essential elements of establishing strong relationships with clients and colleagues. This is a conversation you won't want to miss, so tune in and let's learn how to truly embrace being a BOSS…   Transcript   It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS Superpower series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with the one and only, most beautiful, lovely Lau Lapides.    Lau: Oh, thank you. Miss Anne. Love you right back. Yay.    Anne: Ohh. You know, Lau. I had such a week. Oh my gosh. It is so tough to be a BOSS. I'm just saying.    Lau: Ugh. It is. It is. You have to give that a little accent, because that was such a week. Was it a week? It was a week. It was a week. It was a week, a week from Weekland.    Anne: I Had such a week.    Lau: Such a week.    Anne: Trying to, being a BOSS.   Lau: Oy, tell me about your week. Tell me about it.    Anne: The VO BOSS. Okay, so that was my poor rendition of (laughs) VO BOSS. So being a VO BOSS, you know what? There's so many different types of BOSSes. So I thought it would be a good thing to talk about today, all the different hats that we wear being BOSSes and all the, as you mentioned before, the plates that need to be kept spinning in the air. And those of you who are maybe just getting into this, or if you're into this, realize that you're not alone. We're all spinning plates, and it's one big, crazy, wonderful world of being a BOSS. All these things that I never anticipated having to do when I initially thought, oh, I'm gonna go into voiceover.    Lau: Oh, totally. You know? Oh, you don't know anything. I mean, that's the beauty of it, is like if you knew everything, you wouldn't go into it. So it's better.    Anne: Probably.    Lau: Ignorance is bliss, right? In a way.    Anne: Probably.    Lau: But do you ever literally have vertigo? Like sometimes I literally, at night, I'll sit down, and the room is spinning, and I'm like, why is the room spinning? It's like so many things are entering --   Anne: Could’ve been those drinks you had, Lau. I'm just kidding. (laughs).    Lau: It could be like, listen, I should drink --   Anne: Vodka, you. No (laughs).    Lau: I should drink. I would be able to see straight. But it's just like so many layers of stuff happening in your mind that literally you get dizzy from it. I get dizzy from it.    Anne: It's funny because I said to -- as I was having a meeting with my assistants the other day -- I said, God, it's hard to be a BOSS. Like, I thought, oh, it's gonna be wonderful going into business for myself, and, and it is. Trust me, I would have it no other way. I've decided that I could never, ever work for someone again outside of an a guest position, like a guest director, that kind of thing. But I just can't work for someone again. But being a BOSS, there's so many responsibilities that you have to take on that you may have never even thought of. And they're scary. Right? Because did I have any experience setting up an S-corp? Did I have any experience hiring employees or firing employees? Things that you just didn't -- in the beginning, did I have any experience negotiating outside of being in the store with my — by the way, my father, my father, every place he went, he tried to bargain. He tried to bargain the deal. He would go into Sears. Okay, Sears is not around much anymore, but I think Sears is  online.    Lau: (laughs). I love Sears.    Anne: But he would go into Sears, like just the retail store, and he'd just, anything he bought, he'd try to, he tried to bargain them down. I mean, it was hysterical. It used to drive my mother crazy, but all the negotiation, I had no idea. Right? No idea how to negotiate, no idea how to set up accounting for my business.    Lau: Yeah. They're hardcore skill sets that we're not, I mean, to be perfectly honest with you, if you're in undergrad, if you're in graduate school, if you go to a conservatory, if you're going to a training studio, they all kind of fall under a similar umbrella in that they're not offering a lot of business training. And so you're really kind of thrown out as a actor in the world thrown out to figure out, how do I do this? Whether I'm a working talent or whether I own a company, how do I figure out all the components that have to make that company really successful? And the truth is, a lot of us end up taking years and years piecing it together, like our own apprentice, and getting people to train with and train under, to figure out what I need to not just survive, but also thrive in the business and get to the level at which we're getting to.    Anne: Absolutely. And even if you outsource, right? Let's just say you're a creative. I know a lot of creatives that come into it. They're like, okay, so this is great, I got my demo, (laughs). Then they're like, why am I not getting any work? Well, because you need to proceed on with the business, right? We need to do marketing, we need to do outreach. We need to reach out to potential clients and get the work. And then once we get the work, we have to figure out how to negotiate a fair price. Or if we're working with an agent, we have to get that agent. How are we going to bill them? And then once we bill them, how are we gonna make sure that they pay us? And then when they pay us, we gonna make sure we're taking out enough taxes for the end of the year, right, so that we can pay our taxes at the end of the year?    So, so many different pieces and components. And I think for me, as a voice talent first starting out, before I really branched off and started coaching and started VO Peeps and VO bus, I had to survive and get through all of that, which I believe most everybody has to kind of experience on their own. Even if you outsource for things, right, for editing, for accounting, you have to understand the business in order to know how to manage the people that you are hiring to help you with the business. Right? Because otherwise, you're kind of just sitting there in the dark and people could take advantage of you, or you're just not gonna understand how your business works or the things that need to get done. So I think first and foremost, being a BOSS requires education, education, education. Oh my gosh, from the start.   Lau: Yes. You have said the magic words, and you have to give yourself enough expertise to understand how to find experts, if that makes any sense. And I, I oftentimes would get frustrated saying, but wait, do I have to be a graphic designer in order to design for a designer for my website? And to some degree, yes, you do. To some degree, yes, you do. You can't run on an assumption that if I have enough money to invest, and I hire this person or this team, that they actually know what they're doing. You cannot assume that, do not assume it. And I will say, not to be a negative Nelly, but just to be a realist in the moment, most of the time they don't.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: And so it doesn't mean to be overly critical, it just means to have the education behind you to say, well, I sat in on some courses, I took some seminars.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: I did some homework in the industry, and I have a sense of what a marketing person does. I have an idea of what a designer would do for a website. I have these ideas that I can be a partner, not a subordinate in my own business, but a partner in crime to really make that vision happen. Don't sit back and be passive and say, well, I'm hiring an accountant, and they should know you'll do it.    Anne: Exactly.    Lau: You have to know what an expense is. You have to know what a write-off is. You have to know, as you said, how to save for your quarterly taxes. Otherwise, you're gonna get stuck at the end saying, wow, I'm the loser in this because I didn't do the homework in understanding what my due diligence is in this process, I just completely put it in the whole basket of that professional who, sometimes they're great, but they still are not gonna know everything and about our industry.    Anne: Oh my gosh, yes. And honestly, I will say that for myself, being the tech girl that I am, being, the fact that years ago I taught, let's just, here's an example, marketing, ads, Google Ads, Facebook ads, LinkedIn ads, they've changed. Right? And so when I recently -- well, not recently, it was about a year ago or two years ago, I went to go hire someone to do Google Ads for me. Oh my goodness. So I didn't have a concept of what Google Ads needed at the time. Right? So how was I able to hire a qualified person to create ads for me, manage ads for me, and run them for me, and then charge me. Right? And I will say, I am the first person to say that I did not educate myself enough. I found someone who, sworn up and down, good references, good resource, that was supposed to be a wonderful person that could handle my Google Ads for me. And they did not work out at all for me. I got no return on my investment, and I lost money.    And so that alone, right, that risk that you're taking when you're hiring somebody or outsourcing somebody to help you run your business, that first of all takes courage. And that's a scary thing. And so educating yourself about what you need and the general outline -- like, if I need an accountant, what is that accountant gonna have to do for me? They're gonna have to balance my monthly checkbook. They're gonna have to import data from my banking accounts. We're gonna have to categorize that.    So understand that you need to do these things, and then you're gonna have to manage the person that's working for you. And remember, and this is probably one of the toughest things I have, multiple assistants. Assistants are human, right? Human people have bad days. Right? And if there's a bad day, or more than a bad day, or it turns out to be something where it's not helping you in your business, you're going to have to address that. And that's not necessarily a technical thing that you have to know or learn about, but that is people management. And oh my goodness, Lau. I don't know. Can you take a class on people management (laughs)?    Lau: Well, you know, they have whole degrees on management. They certainly have whole graduate degrees. But I'm here to tell you, and not to say that those are not worth taking part in, they could be.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: But I'm here to tell you, I am from the school of Old Knocks, and the School of Living Life from --   Anne: Hard knocks.   Lau: Hard knocks. And nothing you learn in school, number one, in a year or two will be obsolete, a lot of it. But number two can match what happens, the class, versus the real life. Nothing can match the nuances and complexities and sophistication and complication of dealing with people every day. And anyone who's in any kind of business will agree with that one. It is amazing, the skillsets that you need to accrue.    Anne: Oh goodness, yes.   Lau: The more diversity, the more skillsets, (laughs).    Anne: And you know, we always encourage outsourcing, right? To be a BOSS, go ahead. Outsource those things that don't bring you joy. Outsource those things that allow you to market yourself more. If you love being in the booth and you want more jobs in the booth, hire someone to help you market. But make sure that you know enough about that marketing and enough about managing that person so that they can truly help you grow. And so that when you do get more work, right, you're gonna be able to complete that as intended.    And if it doesn't work out, I think one of the hardest things for me has been firing somebody. That's a tough thing. That might be the toughest thing I've had to do, is fire people. And that is, whew. I'll tell you, that mentally is draining.(laughs). You know, not so much like if somebody's not performing as you feel, I think letting them go. And then I think the decent thing to do is to connect up with them and talk to them as you're letting them go. I don't wanna just ghost people or do it via a text or an email. Dealing with that is very, very tough.    So BOSSes, if you are outsourcing, make sure you know enough about the topic or whatever it is that you're outsourcing so that you can manage the person. And if that person doesn't work out, make sure that you have the courage and you will develop people skills probably. It doesn't make it easier, I don't think. I always hate letting somebody go. It's not a pleasant thing to do.   Lau: No, it's a hard one. It's a really hard one, especially if you're a people pleaser and you love to get along with people. It's a very difficult one. And another one is, and this is old school management versus a lot of new school theory, in that management does not mean everything is hands off and laissez-faire where you can walk away and take lunch all day and everyone will do everything for you. It is always, in my mind, a hands on skillset and craft that you need to be unafraid and assertive about your team being on top of what's going on, having them know that you know what's going on, the psychology that is important. But walking a fine line between over controlling and being --   Anne: Yeah. Micromanaging.   Lau: — called founder syndrome, that's the founder of the company not willing to budge and let go of old ways and old philosophies. How we balance that as managers of saying, well, yes, I started, I've grown. I have a philosophy and a model in this direction, but I wanna learn, I wanna pivot, I wanna grow. And knowing the difference -- here's one of the best ones I can give to your, to the audience. One of the best ones is know the difference between the people that are static — in other words, they were great at a certain timeframe — and others that are your growth people. They're the people that are gonna help you grow to the next place. Not everyone is that. And when we have an unrealistic expectation and get upset that this person is not moving with us, they're not shaping us, they're not shape shifting, they're not leading us, well, they're not meant to. They're not great at that. That's not why they're there. This other person you're bringing in, because they're great at that. That's what they do. They're there to take you to the next level. And know the difference between the two.    Anne: Absolutely. Yeah. There's a give and a take. Right? I mean, just because you are the boss doesn't mean that you are the be all, all knowing. And so I, I really find that there's such a delicate balance between happy people, happy employees, business grows. I really believe in keeping employees happy. And to do that, you have to pay them fairly. That's number one. And again, that's another mind twist for BOSSes who are starting out thinking, well, gosh, I don't have the money. A lot of what I hear on a daily basis is, I don't have the finances. I don't have the finances to invest. But yet still, if you don't have the finances to invest, I don't believe in your growth, in your company's growth, you're not gonna grow. And what are we here for? I mean, (laughs). I just feel like there's got to be a reason that you want to grow in your career and grow your business.    And so there has to be that mental education that you have for yourself that allows you to make that investment, but also trust in the people. Like hire people that can help you grow. I love the static and the growth people, and also, a back and forth listening to those people, because I don't know everything. Right? I hire people that make me look better. Right? Hire people that make you look good, and you can help them look good as well. I think it's a give and a take. And I think it's always like, if you hire people who are even better than you, I think that's really something to aspire to. I wanna hire somebody, obviously I wanna hire somebody that's better at me in accounting, because that's why I need accounting help. Right? I want somebody who's the expert, who's the best in that. And I wanna encourage them to want to work for me or work with me to help grow my company. So how am I incentivizing?    Lau: And you know, just realize that as you manage people, people, whether they're a contractor and they're coming and going, doing a one-off job for you, or if they're an employee and they're there on a consistent basis, I always run by the philosophy of, I wanna build them up. I wanna grow them and spring them up. Versus rip them down and tear them down. And I'll tell you, I oftentimes say this from some folks that I have worked with in the past, and I think to myself, quietly I think, if they had money and they had power, they would be super dangerous. Because they don't know how to manage people, and they would become tyrannical. And it's very easy to slide into a zone where I'm powerful, I'm omnipotent, I have money, I'm successful, I'm this, I'm that. Now the ego can't get through the door. The ego is larger than life. No one can tell me I'm wrong. No one can show me anything else.    Anne: Right.    Lau: A lot of dictators, we see this in the acting world, especially in academia, a lot of theater professors and people who are tenured, who can't be touched over years and years and years can become very, very tyrannical in nature and just rip to shreds those actors. And so I always had a concerted effort in the front of my mind, not that I have a nature for that, but don't ever go down that path. Always stay humble, stay kind, stay open to education, and just know that I don't know everything. There's so much you don't know. You're always learning --    Anne: Absolutely.    Lau: — learning and learning. But keep your awareness up. If someone is trying to take advantage of you or someone is treating you a certain way that's uncomfortable or inappropriate, put your foot down. Be articulate. Let them know that. Like, don't let them walk all over you. And so it's a very fine line to stay right in the middle, right in that diplomatic middle place.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Where you're strong and you have an anchor and you have a state of mind, but you are open, you're kind, you're pivoting and you're learning and just sort of moving back and forth.    Anne: I think some of the most powerful people in business, and of course I've had, outside of the VO industry, I've had experiences obviously before I came into the voiceover industry. But I also try to make a point to really get outside my bubble and experience -- especially with my clients, right? I want to go into their world. I think some of the smartest and most powerful people that I have met have been ones who don't act like they know it all and actively say, I don't know it all. Or I wish I could answer that right now. What I think is this. And I truly believe those are the people that I'm like, wow. Like, wow. You just don't see that. I have such respect. He's a BOSS. Or she's a BOSS. And really, I feel that that has to be part of the mindset that, BOSSes out there, we need to stay humble, stay open to education, and educating yourself at all times. Like we are lifelong learners.    It's not easy. Right? I mean, I, gosh, I wish a lot of times you might look into the industry and people just make it look so easy. They're just getting all the jobs. They're just powerhouses in the industry. But I guarantee if you sit down with every one of them, they can tell you their story. And their story has not been all roses. I mean, it's not easy being a good BOSS. It, it just isn't. There's a lot of trials, tribulations, failures, missteps. I think if you really look at it in a positive light, you always learn from your mistakes. I mean, I don't mind making mistakes. I mean, I don't wanna make big costly mistakes. I try to avoid those. But it happens. I mean, like I said, I made a bad investment in trying to hire someone that was gonna do some ads for me. And it wasn't just that, I mean, it's been multiple, multiple things that have happened that I'm like, well, okay, I've learned now. Now I know. I don't want that. Or now I learned and I know better.    Lau: That's what I call learning money. (laughs).    Anne: Yeah. Learning money.    Lau: Learning money. But you don't wanna keep learning that lesson over and over and over again.    Anne: Exactly.    Lau: Just learn it and then move on and say, hey, I learned that. And I'll never forget that. Yeah. Because that was not the right move for us, but that's okay. That's all right. It happens.    Anne: I try telling people all the time, it's such a thing on the forums in, you know, Facebook groups, oh, I got a demo, and oh, I shouldn't have gotten that demo. And then people come, they'll come to me and they'll say, can you listen to my demo? And I shouldn't have gotten it. And oh God, it was a mistake and it was bad. But honestly, I just tell people like, you cannot beat yourself up over something. It's a learning mistake. Right? I mean, everybody starts somewhere. Right?    Lau: Yeah, I was just thinking of that.   Anne: And so, if you beat yourself up about, yes, it could have been a costly investment, but think of it as a learning investment. And now you know exactly what not to do. And so I always try to make people not feel bad about what they consider to be mistakes. because it, they bring with them all sorts of luggage, which it doesn't always serve them well in trying to build their businesses. Right? When you've got that luggage and that baggage and that bitterness. I mean, just move on, learn, move on. And yeah, it was a costly mistake. And it happens. It just does. And it happens to the best of us, guys. It does. It happens to BOSSes that have been doing this for years, like myself and Lau, I'm sure.    Lau: Oh my goodness. Every year, every year you're learning and you're growing, and you're doing things that are amazing and you're doing other things that you look back and you say, why did I do that? Or I don't think I'm gonna do that again.    Anne: Well, that didn't work, (laughs).    Lau: What was I thinking? You know? Wasn't time well spent. But you know what? I think the older and wiser you get, the more you realize I need to be able to take something away from every single experience that I'm doing. Because that's really the learning curve. Sometimes your biggest mistakes are your biggest learning curves. And sometimes you meet people within that mistake that become immense, immense partners in action for you and your lifetime. So always look for the silver lining of that cloud. Don't walk away and beat yourself up and waste energy and waste time and whatever. Say, listen, I got opportunity costs, I got learning money, (laughs) that I'm spending.    Anne: Yeah, absolutely.    Lau: But you know, I had a thought in my head, and this was like from 20 minutes ago, but I just wanted to say that some of the simplest things that can be blown out of proportion, if not done well, and doing the due diligence to do them well is so important. Like even budgeting, like even budgeting, understanding the difference between like what a fixed cost is versus what your variable costs are. if you don't know that from the beginning and you don't work on that, my goodness, the money is gonna go right through your hands like water. You won't even know what happened to it. You won't know how you spent it. You won't know how you got it. You won't know what to do with it. So your relationship to money is a very powerful and intimate and trusting relationship that you have to really respect and pay attention to, because it symbolizes so many important things for you in your life and in your business. So you have to really do that and not put it off for some day, someday. Do it early. Get yourself in really important patterns.    Anne: I think ultimately we create businesses to have a business and create a profit. Right? We wanna be able to create a profit so that we can I mean, ultimately, if this is your full-time gig, right? I wanna be able to pay the mortgage, and so with my business, I need to make a profit. And so, yes, relationship with money is huge. And I think we had a podcast episode on it not so long ago, or we've spoken about it before. Your relationship with money is critical. It's imperative that you address it and that you face it. Because you have to know at what point, are you making a profit? Are you not making a profit? What are you putting your money into?  And that's not to say that you shouldn't put your money into things, right? And that you should be clenching your fists and not wanting to invest in yourself or in your business, but knowing where that money is going. And then are you making a profit? Or at what point are you making a profit?    Now, profit can mean something other than monetary profit, especially when we're talking about just getting into the business. The first couple of years I was in the business, I expected to take a loss. And of course I reported a loss on my taxes, right? Because you're investing money, or investing money in your training and your equipment, in your demos, you're spending money on, at least I was spending money on pay-to-plays and auditioning and trying to build up that business, build up that clientele. And so as a business entity, I lost money the first couple of years. And of course, ultimately that shouldn't be your goal forever. But I mean, that's very typical I think for any small business just starting out, you're gonna invest more than you're gonna get back.    And so for those people, I love it, I always ask my new students to set goals. Some of the goals are like, I want a national spot in six months, or I wanna be able to make, you know, $100,000 this year, or whatever that is. And I like the fact that there's goals, but I want, I want your goals as BOSSes to also, if you educate yourself enough to figure out what are realistic goals for you in your business, and how much are you going to have to invest, and how much could you realistically get? I mean, of course there's always monetary goals, that I'd like to hit that six figure number this year. I think those are great. But I also think that you have to have the relationship with your money, first and foremost, to know where that money is going, in and out in profit and not profit, to really help you get an idea as to how to continue or to move forward and progress.    Lau: Have a real action plan in place, right, Anne? I mean, don't just fly by the city of your pants. It's okay to have those impulsive moves at times and have the improv spirit, but you have to have a plan of action in place. I would like to see you have it in place every quarter and readjust it, readjust it, readjust it, reinvent it, reenvision it. It should not stay the same year after year, quarter after quarter. You should have new ideas, new ideas. And it's okay if your business is capped. You don't have to go through the ceiling. Not everyone has to go through the ceiling. Some people say, I wanna grow to this level. I'm happy with this level.    Anne: Yeah, absolutely.    Lau: I know if I get above it, it's gonna be too stressful for me. Or I don't have enough of --    Anne: There's gonna be more work involved. Exactly.    Lau: — to help with that. And just know that, like go after your big dream, but be realistic about that big dream. I also wanted to say too, be careful of scams. It is a massive scam market now out there, just in the larger world, in the larger sphere. So as you're spending your money and investing in services and delegating and hiring people and growing your team, do your reference checks, do your research. Ask folks in the industry, do you know this one? Do you know this one? Do you know this one? Because you don't wanna make a mistake where you give a bunch of money to a scam outfit. That happens all the time. Every moment of the day, that's happening. And they're getting very crafty about looking like a real company.    Anne: Yeah, absolutely.    Lau: So just buyer, beware, consumer, beware. Do the due diligence. And I guarantee you two or three people in the industry that you work with and trust are gonna know whether they are legitimate and real or not.    Anne: Yeah. Yeah. BOSSes, educate. I think it all starts with education, all starts with education. And I mean, hopefully our discussion on being a BOSS and things that we've had to encounter ourselves has helped you to know that you're not alone if you're experiencing difficulty or you have questions or you don't know the answers, because a lot of times we don't either. And so that's why we have support groups out there. We have mentors, we have coaches that we trust and believe in. And the BOSSes, we're always here for you if you need us. And so always great conversation, Lau.   Lau: Great conversation. You know what I love the most about being a BOSS? I love developing relationships. Relationships that sometimes can last a whole lifetime. And that to me is one of the biggest payoffs of running a business, is getting to have amazing clients, amazing talent, and amazing colleagues and friends like you, Anne that just make my life happy.    Anne: And cohosts like you, Lau.    Lau:  Yay!   Anne: There you go.    Lau: Yay.    Anne: I love it. Love you, guys.    Lau: Love that. Love it.    Anne: Fantastic. Okay guys. So as individuals, I want to let you know that it can seem difficult not only to be a BOSS, but to make a huge impact. But as a group, we can contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never thought before possible. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how. And big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and connect like BOSSes like Lau and myself. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Bye!    Lau: Next time!   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

In this episode, Anne & Lau delve into the energizing power of generosity + how integrating it into your personal and professional life can be incredibly rewarding. They explore various ways to incorporate acts of kindness into your daily routine, emphasizing that giving doesn't always have to be monetary – it could be a service, a skill, or even just a few minutes of your time each day. They also discuss the importance of giving without seeking recognition, and how simple gestures can strengthen connections and relationships. Listen in as they share their own experiences, provide insights on how businesses can contribute to organizations like 100 Voices Who Care, and inspire you to unleash the transformative impact of giving in your life and the lives of those around you.   Transcript   It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS Super Power series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with ah, the one and only Lau Lapides.  Lau: Hey, Anne. Happy Saturday.  Anne: Happy Saturday, Lau. How you feeling this Saturday?  Lau: Awesome. As always. Excited to be here with you.  Anne: Me too. Me too. And you know why? I was gonna tell you before I asked you -- Lau: I have a feeling. Anne: -- do you know why?  Lau: I know what's coming up. I think you're gonna talk about giving today, giving, giving. Anne: I am. I wanna talk about giving. Yes. And I've mentioned this before, purpose beyond profit for your businesses. So, I mean, it's awesome to be BOSSes, right? It's awesome to be a business superpower and to be a BOSS. And I think a big part of being a BOSS is also understanding the power and the power and the grace of giving back. And I think that there are a lot of people who, if they had the opportunity, would really get a lot out of giving back.  I mean, anybody who's given to a charitable organization knows how good that can feel. And I truly believe that today people want to align themselves with businesses who are about more than just profit. You know? That they stand for something, they believe in something, they do good, they give back. I just think it's a good thing to do in your business. And I know it's hard if we're just starting out, trying to get our careers going. And I know there's a lot of people who are like, well, I don't know if I have the money to be able to donate at this time, but I'm going to ask you guys to think about your purpose. Think about the positive outcomes that can come from giving back. Lau, what are your thoughts about? Lau: I am so into that, and I have to say, this isn't an elitist sort of thought process of, oh, I've made it to this amount of money. I'm grossing in my business, then I can give, or this or that. It really is not contingent upon how much you're taking in or how much you're making. Really, I think the truth is, as a business owner and as a human being, a citizen of the earth, I like to say, you should always take a very small percentage of anything that you're bringing in and give it away to the charity of your choice. And I always say to people who haven't done it yet, who don't know what it is, and it's a little scary to do that, just start really small.  Like if you're going through a coffee line, like let's say you're going through the drive-through, pay it forward once a month and just pay for the car behind you, and see what that feels like. What does that do for you for that day? For me, it's very energizing, very inspiring, and very anonymous, which I also like too. It's really coming from the heart, not for recognition. Anne: I actually love that you said that. And there's a couple of different ways when you're giving, and I love the anonymous because I feel like when you're anonymously donating, you're really giving for the reasons coming from your heart. Now, of course, there are a lot of businesses who support different charities or support different organizations, and it becomes a public part of who they are as a business. And I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with that, especially if it's to the point of they're able to contribute, and it's not a thing where it's front and center, where it becomes like, this is who we are and this is what we're doing for so and so. But it becomes just a side part of what they do on a daily basis.  And I love that you said start small because it doesn't have to be big. As a matter of fact, Lau, our sponsor 100 Voices Who Care has a really cool idea on how you can give and really make an impact. And basically it's a community effort where you can donate $100 a quarter. So that means $100 a quarter, four times a year, $400 total for the year. And essentially, if you can get 100 people together in that organization, they'll be 100 people, that can be a total of $10,000 a year -- Lau: Ooh, that's a lot  Anne: — that can be given away. And so actually that's a large amount. So for you, making your $100 contribution four times a year, and then doing that just minimally, together with however many members that are contributing, can actually make a real difference. And then essentially these members get together, and they do their pitch for their favorite charity, and they say, well, I really like to give to this charity because I feel strongly about how they're helping animals, or they're helping needy people in other countries, or they're -- whatever they might be doing. And you'll be within this group making your pitch. And at the end, everybody votes on what charity that will ultimately win that money. And then what's so great about it is that, even if it doesn't go to the charity of your choice, it's going to a charity.  Lau: Exactly. It's giving back to the world, to the people, the animals, the children, the environment, whatever your causes are, it's going in all of those directions. So in essence, you are personally involved with the giving to all of those different worlds. And to me, I'm about to actually join that organization, 100 Voices Who Care, and I'm very excited about that. Because I'll tell you, I'll be perfectly honest, I've been trying to find organizations to work with, and it's so hard to give money. It sounds ridiculous. But it's hard to get people to call you back. It's hard to find point people. It's hard to find anyone who has information about the organization. And I was very relieved to see this particular outfit at our conference recently that we attended. And I was like, wow, this answered all of my prayers as a business and also as a human being. Like, you're gonna take care of a lot of this for me, but I also have a voice and I can pitch an organization that I'm interested in giving a voice to.  Anne: It's wonderful. Lau: That's exciting.  Anne: And who's leading the organization, who was there at the conference, if you guys were there and didn't get a chance to stop by and see her, is Claire Dinsdale, who is a voice actor herself, and who is fronting that organization to help be able to give to charities. And it's just wonderful because it's something where I wanna feel like I can make a big impact, but I don't necessarily have a lot of money to give. But together we can really make a huge impact. And I think one of the things I thought long ago was the fact that if I was able to have an organization, let's say like my VO Peeps and my VO BOSSes, that now that I've formed this organization, there is this segment of it that I do want to be able to give back if I'm able to give back.  And so it's one of the reasons I formed the VO Peeps Scholarship Fund and have been giving scholarships away for, gosh, close to 11 years. And again, it really is a matter of the community because I accept donations from the community as well as in-kind gifts. So it doesn't always have to be money either. It can be your time, it can be coaching time, it can be equipment, it can be all sorts of different things that you can donate that can really mean something to a person's career. And so that became a very integral part of the VO Peeps business model. And so I really encourage all of you BOSSes out there that if it is possible to either join an organization and get that feeling of being able to contribute to that organization, to give back, I truly believe it makes the world go round. Right? I mean… Lau: It's huge.  Anne: Even if you're giving anonymously, I think it's just, everything comes back. I believe in good karma. I truly believe that it helps in the growth and positive reinforcement of the world and our humanness to each other.  Lau: Hmm. So true. I mean, the karma of that, if you believe in karma, if you believe in that boomerang energy that what you put out into the world will come back to you — I mean, we wouldn't do it for that reason. But I do deeply believe in that. I absolutely believe in that. And I did wanna just give a super quicky anecdote, Anne, about a moment in time that's running through my head right now, where my daughter — and I hope she's not listening because she likes to be anonymous in everything she does — my daughter, about a year ago or two years ago, young kid, she was a young kid, teenager, she saw that one of the customers that came into a store she was working at desperately needed a walker and did not have the funds to get a walker, and was really, really struggling. And on her birthday, I -- this kind of blew me away — on her birthday, on my daughter's birthday, she decided to take the money that we gave her on her birthday and buy her a walker, which was a very expensive walker in the store.  Anne: Yeah. Wow.    Lau: And give it to her. And her and my son delivered it to their door. And I said, that's amazing. Are you sure you wanna do that? They didn't have any money saved, and that was good money for her to do something with. She said, yeah, I can't think of anything I really want or need, but this woman Sarah, needs to walk. And I would feel better giving it to her. Anne, she did that. Long story short, I was amazed. I'm trying not, not to get verklempt about it.    Anne: What a wonderful story.  Lau: I drive up the street now, Anne, and I see this woman, she lives in the area, crossing the street with the walker. And every time I see her, I just quietly, she doesn't know me, she doesn't know I'm the the mother.      Anne: Yeah. Yeah.      Lau: I think my daughter gave her that.    Anne: Yeah. Yeah.      Lau: And it's not about the walker, it's about freedom. And so I always think it's not about the money. If you give a dollar, if you give a million dollars, it's kind of the same, because symbolically what it's really giving to a person, confidence --     Anne: Sure.      Lau: — energy, freedom, all sorts of things that you have to think of it in that way. Don't whittle it down to just monetary. It could be service you do, right?      Anne: Absolutely.     Lau: It could be absolutely something you own that's precious to you that you give to someone else. It could be anything. Right?     Anne: Yeah. I love that story. That's such a beautiful story.      Lau: Amazing story, right?      Anne: Yeah.      Lau: It's amazing. And that taught me a lesson.      Anne: Yeah. And there's so much to be said for when you see someone in need, just being able to help them out, what it can do for you internally, mentally. And I think that of course, as we, again, we say over and over and over again, as we run our businesses, I mean, we are all human, and our businesses are very personal. It's a very personal and proud of our brand. So whatever we do outside of our job, right, outside of our business, affects our business in a lot of ways indirectly. And so I think being able to feel good about what you're doing and feeling good — and again, we're always talking about in our business, let's charge what we're worth. And I still believe in that. But I also believe that if you can help another talent out, or if you can help someone else out around you, then that is just going to contribute to the overall good of your business and of you personally.      Lau: And I do think some of the best times to give, Anne, are not in dire times. I think we always connote that, oh, if someone's starving or they're in war, whatever, of course they need help in assistance. And of course we should assist them. But it's not the only time. Maybe there's a zoo or an animal farm that needs maintenance, constant daily maintenance to feed the animals, clean the animals, keep them, whatever. Or maybe there's the trees in the forest that need-- you know, we are big in terms of Israeli trees being planted every year.      Anne: Sure.    Lau: And we give money to plant new trees every year. so that we can grow that new forest. So thinking about what am I doing to maintain, what am I doing to provide a future for populations or for the environment? It's not absolutely only in dire, dire circumstances. Sometimes it's in good circumstances in order to keep it maintained and keep it healthy.    Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that really it is, it's something that I would say, if you haven't already put it into your business plan or into your daily life, really take some time to consider what can I do? What can I do to help give back? And again, as Lau mentions, it doesn't have to be monetary. I mean, it could be your time, it could be some other service that you can provide. If you don't have the money to donate, it could be your service. And that could mean just as much, if not even more. I mean, be a tutor for a child that might need help reading or there's just so many, so many things that we can do.    I have to say, take a part of your workday. I wouldn't feel bad. You know what I mean? If we're busy and we're like, okay, we're focused on our work -- I think you should set aside a part of your workday to consider what am I gonna do to help give back? Maybe even it's something as simple as contributing to, I'm gonna say a Facebook forum in a positive way where you might be helping other talent. Gosh, I know, Lau, this has been going back and forth about people who ask questions in the forums. And some people get really angry about having to answer the same question multiple times. They're trying to pick my brain. And yes, I get that whole thing. But I do believe that as a good service towards people coming into the industry, you can give a little bit and give some helpful advice without sacrificing, giving away the farm. I mean, gosh, the VO BOSS podcast over and over I've said, it was something that I wanted to do to give back to the community, to just have a resource that people could go to.    Lau: Exactly. Right.    Anne: And so, a lot of my stuff that I do, I have that whole series on teachable moments that I put on YouTube. 'cause I love teaching, I love sharing. And yes, I will be the first person to say that. Yes. Some people, when they come to me for coaching, they say, well, I saw you on your videos, or I listened to your VO BOSS podcast. Gosh, Lau. I'm sure people talk to you about that too. I am so grateful for the people that come to me that say, I listen to your podcast religiously, or thank you for what you're doing. And yes, I wanna work together. So that's the bonus.    Lau: I'm blown away. Bonus, bonus, bonus.    Anne: That's just a bonus. Yeah. It wasn't the original intent. And I think that that is obvious too. Right?    Lau: I'm blown away by that. Yeah. We get comments all the time about this wonderful podcast and it's like, woo! I feel like superheroes, we're spending our time together on a Saturday and doing our thing. But then when you hear and you see how it lands, how it affects people, how it has the potential to change someone's life — well, in essence, I mean, that's giving too. You're not giving physical money, but you're giving time. Time is energy. Time is value. Time is money. Right?    And I do wanna mention too, another thing I tend to do, which is hard, I'm not gonna say it's easy. I take as many surveys as I can. And that's the thing that everyone hates and doesn't wanna do. And they get the survey from every hotel and every whatever. And I literally sit there and I think, okay, I have to do this for them. I have to do this. And then if it goes too many windows, too many pages, I can lose my patience. But if it can be done in five minutes, I will do it for them. Because I say, I know they need that feedback, and I'm the person to give it to them in a really constructive way. And that's giving of yourself too.    Anne: And you know what? That's so funny cause you just reminded me because of VO Atlanta -- I'm just gonna say VO Atlanta is one example where the staff, I'm going to say the staff just ran their tushes off and bent over backwards trying to help me. And Lau, if you remember, you were a part of that one night when I was starving to death. And so the staff really went above and beyond. And I said to them, give me the email address of your manager. I will write an email saying how wonderful you were for me tonight. Please, I want to do that for you. And I'm --   Lau: I love that. I love that.   Anne: — very much willing to do that because it helps. It does.    Lau: It totally helps. You don't see it. You don't hear it, but you have to believe it's there. It's like if the tree's falling, do you hear it? Is it happening? Yes, it's happening. Yes, it makes impact. And yes, you don't always need the accolades, you just need the knowledge of knowing it's happening. And I noticed you neglected to mention that I had to threaten the whole staff at that Marriott to get you like some turkey sticks or whatever we got you. And that was my charity for that night.    Anne: Yeah, you had to threaten everybody. But the person that came through, the person that came through for me, they bent over backwards.    Lau: They did. They sure did.    Anne: To help me. Yeah. They really did.    Lau: They did.    Anne: To get me that turkey sandwich.    Lau: They went beyond, they went beyond customer service, beyond hotel service. That happened to me one time up in the Berkshires and it was a hotel, I think it was a Marriott. It was great. It was super great. And I needed baby powder one night. You know, maybe they thought I had a baby, which I didn't, but I needed baby powder. And my husband goes to the front desk and it's like 11 at night. Do you happen to have any baby powder? And the woman who has babies, young children who works at the desks said, we don't sell it here, but hold on, let me run to my car. She runs to her car and gets it from her baby in the car. This is a hotel rep.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: And gives it to my husband and said, here, give it to your wife. I know sometimes when you need certain things, it's just good to have them. And I never forgot that.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: I never forgot. That was so above and beyond to me.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Was so personal, so personalized --   Anne: Right.    Lau: — to do something like that, you know, whether it's shoe polish or a toothbrush, or baby powder, whatever it is, it's the humanness of the connection and relationships we have together. Was that an extreme need for me? No, I could've lived without it. But the humanity of the honest connection between people is what builds the good juju in the world. Not always, here, let me give you physical cash. Let me help you and do something to make your life easier and it'll connect us for a moment. To me, that's worth everything. I love that. I love those moments.    Anne: And it makes me think of our clients, right?    Lau: Yeah.    Anne: Sometimes can we extend a little bit to our clients once in a while? Do you know what I mean? Like if they need a favor or you know, gosh, they need a pickup like yesterday and is it three words, and they're ready and willing and able to pay, and you're like, you know what? No, it's okay. Like you're just building that good relationship. As a matter of fact, I'm the type of person, oh gosh, I don't even charge. I mean, unless they have completely new scripts, I don't charge. I embed in my price, I embed a certain amount of pickups to it. And if it's a company that I've worked with for a while and I've got a good relationship with them, I'm happy to extend a freebie here and there in a pinch for them, absolutely. Because honestly, the time it would take me to draw up the invoice and charge them and worry about all that, just, it  wasn't even worth the time. So I do think that also in your businesses, you can extend goodwill towards your clients as well and not be threatened that you're not charging what you're worth.    Lau: We used to call that in the olden days, don't nickel and dime people.    Anne: Yes.    Lau: And that means not just getting the pennies from someone, but also the bother, the energy, the exhaustion, the stress.    Anne: Yes. That's what it is.    Lau: Everything that surrounds that transaction. And you have to know intuitively, is it worth it quickly to do that or not? Is it better to just say, hey, let's not worry about that right now. Let's worry about the bigger picture right now of things, versus --   Anne: Let me get you your job on time. Yeah.     Lau: That’s a huge gift.   Anne: Let me give this job to you on time. And I think -- yeah, absolutely. And I think that it's something that you can consider every once in a while. Especially if you've developed a great relationship with a client. Now, clients that nickel and dime you, well that's a different story.    Lau: That's a different story.    Anne: Yeah. That's a different story. So I think we have to make wise decisions, but I think for the most part, if you know your client, you're gonna know what the right decision is. You're gonna know if they're nickel and diming you, but I truly believe that a little goodwill can really, really go a long way. And that's personally in your business all the way around. And so, yeah. I like how you associate it with the stress that's wrapped around the request or the stress that's wrapped around the transaction. And I think alleviating as much stress as possible, I'll tell you that's my goal lately, Lau (laughs).    Lau: And that's a great goal to have.   Anne: I don't want stress. I don’t want stress in my business.    Lau: No, no one does.    Anne: And I think stress or pain or -- I don't want any of that. I just want joy. I want joy surrounding my job. And sometimes that's tough to do, but I'll tell you what, it's so much easier when you are a BOSS yourself and you're in control of it, because you realize that you have control of those things. You have control over your goodwill towards your clients, your goodwill towards humankind, how you feel on a daily basis and how that translates into your performance, and how it translates into your business. It is absolutely up to you. And it's one of the things that I'm so grateful. I just love the fact that I'm working for myself. And I mentioned this to you just recently, Lau, that I don't wanna go through the stress of if I'm working for someone, why did I work so hard to build my own business? If I wanna experience stress like that? I don't. So anything that causes stress like that, basically I've gotta figure out what I can do to wipe that stress away.    Lau: That's right. And to circle that back with that idea of giving -- and by the way, we have a great term. Most people know that I'm Jewish. We have a great Yiddish term called mitzvah. When you do  a mitzvah, when a boy or girl turns 13, we have a bar or bat mitzvah. it means they are now an adult, and they really need to start thinking about giving, give, give, give, give back. Don't take, take, take, take, give, give, give, give. And that's the whole purpose of a bar or bat mitzvah. So the mitzvah of the giving is to de-stress, to relax, rejuvenate. Give someone the joy, the pleasure, the peace of mind that what they're doing is a life worth living, is goals worth having, and that you're there in their community to support them. I mean, I'd love to see that in the world at large. We'd have a better world if everyone could think in the way in which you are thinking. And as like, to de-stress someone is to give them a huge gift, whether it's a smile. It could be an emoji. It could even be like --   Anne: A compliment.    Lau: A compliment. Like pay attention to someone else for a moment and call attention to something that they're doing really well or something that impresses you or something that delights you. 'Cause a lot of times someone might be thinking it and not articulate it.    Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.    Lau: So kind of motivate yourself to articulate those positives. And when you feel the negatives coming on, and you wanna criticize, and you wanna judge, just stop for a second. Like stop and think and say, do I really need to give that out to this person? Is it really necessary? Yep. Or would it be better to build them up? That's a mitzvah.    Anne: Do I need to put that out? Do I need to put that? I love that. Do I need to put that out into the world?    Lau: That's better than money. Honestly. Sometimes that's better than money to say, I recognize you, you matter. You're someone and you're doing something really awesome today. Thanks for doing that. Ooh. Oh my gosh. No one ever, no one tells me that. You need to tell people that.    Anne: And I say, bring that into the booth. We'll just keep going. Lau, every time you mention something that's great. Now I'm like, (laughs). Okay, so, so can we bring that feeling into the booth? And I'm always talking to my students and I've found, I say it more and more is that copy, you need to serve the copy. You need to serve the person you're speaking to. Your delivery needs to come from the heart. It needs to come from a place of service. It's not about how good you sound doing it. It's a place of service. You're helping someone.    And I think if you can take any script that you're doing, commercial, corporate, medical, whatever that is, and you have that place of service, that place of heart where what you are saying is going to benefit and help someone in the end, I really believe that that can be a major impact on your performance. And a good one, a good one at that. Because I believe that the connection that is formed when it comes from that place, right, that place in you really makes a difference in the read. It makes difference on the people listening to it as well.   Lau: I just know personally for myself, when I'm able to give something whatever form it's in, I feel so good. Like right now, I just got a little hot in my like skin and I thought, ooh, am I having a hot flash? No, it's, I'm thinking with about all the ways in which we give, and I'm literally sweating right now because it's so fun to me, it's so exciting because it's not just about giving, it's about seeing how it ripples into the world and into their universe and ultimately your universe too is like seeing the water. Like when you throw the stone, it's the ripple effect of giving.    Anne: Absolutely.    Lau: I love that. That's so cool. To me, it's like a little artistic venture. You don't know where it's gonna go and how it's gonna land, but you just know you threw the rock out there, and you got the ripples going. And so it kind of got me all hot and bothered. (laughs) Fun stuff.    Anne: What a great conversation. What a wonderful — so yeah. BOSSes, one more time, we're gonna talk about the 100voiceswhocare.org. Big impact. Simple mission, big impact, 100 Voices, one hour, $10,000 four times a year. So if you wanna find out more about how this all works, make sure you visit 100voiceswhocare.org and find out more. And tell Claire we said hello and we love her, and we love her as a sponsor of this show. So make sure you check out 100voiceswhocare.org. And of course, as always our sponsor ipDTL, we love them. Find out more at ipdtl.com. So everybody, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week, mwah. Love you, BOSSes.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL. 

Join Anne & Lau as they embark on a fascinating exploration of the online casting world and analyze the controversial role of Fiverr in the voiceover industry. They shed light on the complex ethical issues prevalent in the freelance industry, emphasizing the significance of transparency, fair compensation, and adherence to industry standards. Listen in as The Bosses discuss online casting’s ability to provide global exposure, momentum, and representation for emerging voice talents.  Learn valuable insights into navigating the evolving world of online casting while maintaining ethical practices and fostering a thriving voiceover community.   Transcript   Anne: Hey, hey, everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I have my amazing, lovely, lovely boss co-host Lau Lapides with me. Yay!   Lau: Hey everyone! Hi Anne! Back, back, back. We're back.   Anne: Lau, I've got a dirty word that I heard.    Lau: And I've got a jar that you're going to put a quarter into.   Anne: Every time you say that word, that F-word, I mean, and I'm not --   Lau: No…   Anne: — talking the F-word that most people think. Or maybe if you're in the voiceover industry, you know what that F-word is?   Lau: What?   Anne: It's not failure either, because that's also another F-word. But the word Fiverr.   Lau: Oh! Quarter in the jar.   Anne: Quarter in the jar every time you say the word Fiverr. So I think we're going to be rich, maybe, Lau   Lau: Quarter in the jar.   Anne: After this podcast. So yeah, it's a hot topic. It's always been a hot topic. And I think that it's a considerably bigger topic because I've been in the industry forever. So before there was Fiverr, there was other places that --   Lau: Always.   Anne: —  always places that like Fiverr. And I think now we just really hear so much more about it because we're all online and everybody can talk about it in groups easily. And so we should talk. Lau, what are your thoughts about -- and before you just come right out and say what your thoughts are about Fiverr, I mean let's talk about business. I think that when you talk about businesses, you're always going to have businesses that are luxury brands, right?   Lau: Hmm, yes.   Anne: You know, that sell luxury brands or luxury, you know, the idea of luxury. And then you have the other that are economical.   Lau: Yes.   Anne: And yeah, cost savings and efficient. And so I'm going to start by saying I think that that Fiverr fits in that model that probably isn't elegant brands, but it is the more cost efficient. And here's where you can get something quick, easy, cheap, and fast.   Lau: Yes. Yeah, I'm going to second that and agree with that. But it's interesting because the way I frame Fiverr and sites that are similar to that, the way I frame that in my business brain is under the umbrella or framing in a context of how do I start my business or how do I gain more momentum in my business and how do I get known in my business? This is  one way that is a way that you can build your client list. And the interesting part about a Fiverr is if you choose to go that direction, you have to know that people are going offline and it’s wild west.    So they're building their client list, they’re charging all their rates that they’re deciding on, they’re communicating directly with their clients after awhile. So they’re utilizing it as sort of a jumping platform to get out there, get known, and have Fiverr do a lot of the marketing for them so they can get found, and once they’re found, then they start to make the rules themselves. They start to build their own clients themselves. So there's something to be said for having a platform. And now this is very common. Marketplaces all over the place are housing voice-over talent and voice-over services so that they are in essence marketing you. You're not doing the marketing, so that potential clients and prospects can find you.   Anne: So, we should clarify. I mean, there are some platforms -- I'm not going to talk too much about the other ones, but there are some online casting platforms that you cannot take the client off of. I love what you said about how it's a jumping point. I mean, look, online casting sites, you know, SEO works on frequency of words, right? And so search engines are built to be good search engines. And so if you're looking for a voice talent or a voice actor, and you do a search at the Google prompt, then essentially they want to be a good search engine and serve back the right material.    So when you've got online casting sites and you've got people that have thousands on thousands of profiles that say, I'm a voice actor — guess who has the best SEO, right? Those online casting sites. And honestly, it's almost impossible for you as a single individual business to go up against that SEO because you've got so many matches, right? And so the search engine says, well, the first, if you're searching for voice artists, well, the first place that comes up that term or that word, that search term, would be a casting site that has thousands upon thousands of profiles that say, I'm a voice artist.   Lau: Yeah.   Anne: And so I love the fact that you use it to get your jumping off point, your marketing, use it for its SEO. And it's well known that Fiverr has great SEO, and as well as the other online casting sites, Voice123, Voices.com, they all have great SEO. And so to get yourself found of hundreds of thousands of people, that is absolutely an approach to doing that. And I'll tell you what, starting off understanding the type of business that Fiverr is, or some of these online casting sites, they're in business to make money. And also the people that are on these platforms are making money. Now, are they making great money? Are they making, you know, is it, You know what I mean?    Like, if you're on Fiverr and you're making money for your family, I'm not even talking voiceover, but you're doing something — and again, this is a global site where there's lots of representation. And we live in the United States, which is very privileged, I'm just going to say, right? There might be people on there that are from other countries where $5 to them is a lot of money, right? And it’s a way that they can feed their families. And so I can't, I can't, I can never shun the business. I mean, I can, I can say to them, well, I don't like their advertising. I don't like their ethics. I don't like their lack of transparency for any business, right? And I can choose whether or not I want to associate myself with that business. And I do that every single day. Right?   Lau: Right.   Anne: We do that every single day. So as a voice talent, is it horrible for you to be on Fiverr? And again, there's such. back and forth. And for me, Lau, I've always maintained that, mind your own business. Everybody starts in a different place. Gosh, when I started before there was Fiverr, there was Freelancer. And I'm going to say that --   Lau: I remember that.   Anne: And on Freelancer, it was honestly everybody was underbidding. Everybody was underbidding each other to get the job. What's the difference? Whether they call it Fiverr or Freelancer, start with an F. F word. That's what happened but yet when I was beginning, there wasn't a lot of places there wasn't a lot of opportunities. Look if we're gonna be viable businesses we need to have opportunities right for work and we need to know where those opportunities are and so if they show up in a place like Fiverr, that's an opportunity. Now you make the choice whether or not you go and and and act upon that opportunity.   Lau: And the coach in me says, listen, you know, as a business person, we're in business. We always talk about this like, mind your own business is right.   Anne: Yes, mind your own business.   Lau: Like, you want to set industry standards. Yes, you want to have fair working conditions and and good scale pay. That being said, we're still entrepreneurs slash solopreneurs. And we do have to make decisions, sometimes tough decisions, sometimes controversial decisions about how we put plates on the table, how we take care of our families or our rent, how we deal with everyday waking up and going after our business practices. Like we have to make individual decisions, so as you listen to the cacophony of voices that are out there that are making strong suggestions or they’re giving their subjective advice, we have to do that. But we also have to come home and say, let me sift through all of that and let me make my own decisions about what works for my own career. I think that’s important.   And I do want to say, one of the perceived negative sides of a Fiverr is the fact that you’re not leading people in. They’re coming in through their marketing and they’re finding you. But they’re also finding a lot of competitors to you on the same site.   Anne: Sure.   Lau: So you’re in a pool on the same site with direct competitors. So you just have to know, what’s my A-game? What makes me unique and artful? What separates my branding from their branding? What makes me get found? Because they’re not coming in just finding you. They’re finding potentially hundreds of others that are in your category or in your compartment. And you have to work a little harder to separate yourself from the in-house competition that they’re finding.    Anne: And you know what's so interesting, too, is, I'm not the person to judge if you're on Fiverr or not. I always say, I'm not here to judge you if you're on Fiverr or you're not on Fiverr. What I am concerned about is that you price yourself what you know your worth and that you price yourself knowing your worth. And understanding that just because you're new or you're less experienced does not mean that you have to price yourself less.   Lau: Mm.   Anne: And so I always try to instill that you need to price yourself what you're worth.    Lau:  Well, It's an interesting topic --   Anne: It is, it is.   Lau: — because it's like any other, I call it a marketplace because --   Anne:  Yeah, it is.   Lau: — you may not find other competing businesses to Fiverr itself, but the businesses under the umbrella of Fiverr, many of them are competitive. So it's like you're on a marketplace, you're in a marketplace. It's like you're in a supermarket, right? Who else is on the shelf right next to you?   Anne: And you can price yourself low, whether you're on Fiverr or not. That's the thing. And I think that if you do that, then you are undervaluing yourself. And it can be, if you become good at it and you do a ton of volume work at a low price, then it will start to probably impact the industry. If you become known enough, where you do enough jobs, then it can start to impact the industry. If you are not doing it, somebody will. It always happens. And again, it's not under our control necessarily. I think there will always be bottom feeders, and always in any, any industry.    And so I think for you, you have to worry again, mind your own business, and worry about what you're charging and making sure that you're charging enough so that you are getting paid fairly. And it's not like, this is an online business, right, like it's a brick and mortar where we're doing unethical things, hiring labor that's not minimum. Now there is the argument that people get paid less than minimum wage. But minimum wage where?   Lau: Yeah.   Anne: Minimum wage in what country? Minimum wage. And I get that. I mean if you want to make a blanket statement in saying people get paid less than minimum wage. Well, first of all I've been offered less than minimum wage to do voiceover and I always choose to say no to that. Because for all the times that I’ve, and back in the day when I might have said, oh, I'll think about it. I mean, it's always better for me, and I think for most people, to just say no for less than minimum wage, because look, I didn't give up my job, you know, and to go into business for myself to get less than minimum wage.   Lau: Right.   Anne: And that time is better spent finding somebody who understands my value and values me at my fair rate.    Lau: You brought up a really, really important point, though. It's like we're always thinking of Fiverr from our point of view, which --   Anne: Mm-hmm.   Lau: — many of us are in the US or in North --   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: — America or UK, but people are on there from all over the world. And I know when I've hired a service off of Fiverr, you know, I've met amazing people from Sri Lanka and Philippines and on and on it goes, from Russia, I mean, there are artists from everywhere, creators from everywhere. So in one sense, if you come out of your perspective into a more global perspective, you're giving a lot of artists potential work, where they live and what their experiences are, they would never be able to get on their own. They would never have the money to market their business. They would never physically be able to go to a brick and mortar where they live. So it’s a marketplace that is very important to a lot of people globally speaking that just would not have the placement opportunities that we have here in the states. It’s an interesting way of looking at it.   And then of course, when I’ve hired someone, we may go offline, and then their rates completely change. Then we're in a total other stratosphere. We're no longer in the Fiverr territory. We're in this person's business territory. And then I will pay them what they think they’re worth, and that changes, completely changes, and sometimes it actually gets very pricey. It gets very expensive and rightly so, because their services are worth a lot, oftentimes.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: So thinking of it as, I don’t know how you would say it, but sort of a layered approach. It’s not just, oh, they don't charge a lot of money, you're not paying people what they're worth. That's the meeting time, that's the launching place. And then where it goes from there is into a very different kind of bargaining and negotiation. You have to expect that too. No one I have met and worked with on Fiverr stays at that beginning rate. No one.   Anne: And again, I think that I think that you can off the bat — and I don't know I am not I'm not on Fiverr, and I have I've spent very little time on Fiverr. So it's interesting that we've chosen this. This is our topic today because --   Lau: Yeah.   Anne: — I don't have a lot of experience in fiber and I try not to to make statements, you know what I mean, about Fiverr not understanding the impact or having direct experience. I signed up so that I could look for, you know, different types of employees. I've never hired anybody off of Fiverr. However, I've had enough experiences. I understand the concept of Fiverr. I understand, you know, I talked to enough people that are on it, getting their experiences on it. And again I feel it really is one of those things where it is up to to the individual, whether they choose to be on Fiverr, to associate with that. For me, it was just one of those things where I didn't yet need another platform. I just didn't have time to really take part in it or --   Lau: Yeah.   Anne: — do what I needed to do. I don't know, honestly, Lau, if I have to start with a certain amount of money or if I have to work up to it and I didn't have time for that because thankfully my business is doing well. And so I don’t have to rely on a platform like Fiverr, but boy, in the beginning, I did. I relied on those platforms, online casting platforms, not Fiverr, but to pick up clients and to get my name out there and to get experience so that I could ultimately be in a successful business where ultimately I didn't need it.   Lau: Right. And you're also having, well, you're having tremendous diversity on a platform like that, which I love because I have a vested interest in working with as much diversity as possible --   Anne: Mmm.   Lau: — giving people opportunities that they may not have.   Anne: Sure.   Lau: And also young people, like anyone under the age of 30, I consider young. Anyone under the age of 30, they don’t oftentimes know where to go. They don’t have the business practices. They don’t have advisors, even if they are lucky enough to go to college and get an education. Even in university environments oftentimes, you’re not getting business practices or where to go or any real placement. So you have to think back, for those of you listening in, that if you are 40 and up, where were you at 18? Where were you at 22? What were you thinking at 28? And I know a lot of us were thinking, help, I don't know even what questions to ask. Like, I do a graphic design business, I do a PR business, I create, you know, music for people. I don't know how to get clients. I’m a creative. I don’t have that brain.    Anne: Sure.   Lau: So a marketplace like Fiverr was also filling a need of so many people that literally had no idea how to build a business. No idea at all in saying, hey, come in, we’ll give you your start. Hopefully you’ll stay with us, but if you don’t, we’ll give you your start, and you’ll be able to make those connections all over the world that you want to make. And now that we’re all online, you don’t even need a brick and mortar in a lot of these professions. So you're all online. So you need the marketplace in order to do that.   Anne: Well, and of course, there was a hole in the marketplace. And honestly, it kind of makes me think about, well, what's going on with AI in the creative world? Not just synthetic voices, but we're talking art and writing and copywriting and the creative where AI tools have come out that can write things for you, that can generate art for you. I do believe that ultimately if you can use these as tools, and that includes online platforms, use them as tools to help grow your business, to grow --   Lau: That's right.   Anne: — what it is. And of course, now I'm not saying that people that steal art or AI that is stealing art is right. I believe this is evolving to a point where we will ultimately come up with standards, guidelines, and laws that will protect our rights --   Lau: Yes.   Anne: — protect our art, protect our writing. And it needs to happen. There needs to be this sense of injustice about it all, or this anger, or this stand up and kind of fight for what you believe in. And I believe in the end it will work out. I'm not going to stand here and stomp my feet if you're on Fiverr and say, you're ruining the industry for me. Because, honestly, I found my own industry. I’ve found my own clients and that's okay, that it works for my business. And again I like to always look at the positive thing ,the positive spin of everything. I think that Fiverr filled the need. If Fiverr didn't do it, it would be some other company that would have filled the need --   Lau: No question.   Anne: — for that.   Lau: Yeah, no question.   Anne: It's just the way business works here. And there needed to be an option for people that were looking for an effective voice. And I'm just going to say, those people, if they didn't go to Fiverr, they were probably going to one of the other platforms, like Upwork or whatever the other ones would be, so that they could get reasonably priced voiceover. Now, a lot of times, yes, do they value voiceover? It's a perception, right?   People value things in different ways. I think it's just a fact of life, right? They think, yes, this voice contributes to our brand. And as artists, we want to say, yes, our voice has an impact on your brand, and it can help sell for your brand, and it can help elevate your brand. But there are some people who don't see that value, right? And I'm not going to bother fighting those people, nor am I going to bother trying to get work from those people. Because they'll be the first ones to turn around and complain that they paid too much, and then give me tons of revision. And I've done that enough times in my business to know, right? I've accepted a low-ball offer, not too many times, but enough to know that they're usually the most trouble.    So the people that are coming to Fiverr, right? Their expectations, right? And their appreciation of the value may not be where we want it to be. And that’s just something to understand, right? I mean, if we are businesses and we can educate our clients, our potential clients on our value and what we can do for them, then I don’t think we have problems.   Lau: I agree, Anne, totally wholeheartedly. And I think that we as individuals and as business owners and as citizens of the world create our own morality. We really do. Like we create our own sphere of morality.   Anne: Oh, I like that.   Lau: And you really have to go with what your heart and soul is telling you. And you really have to do it with with an honest heart and a full heart. You're not going with mal-intention. You're not going to hurt someone. You're not going to slight anyone. Like you have to believe that in our industry the space is big enough that you're gaining clients. A lot of them have no level of knowledge of what a rate sheet is or what should be charged or what could be charged. So you're in essence, every time you meet a potential client, you're schooling them, you're teaching them, you're building your own morality base to say, okay, we're meeting at this level.    Listen, what's the difference between that and giving away a free hour of coaching? Or giving away, I'm gonna do like 50% off of class. I want to introduce my value to you. I want to build trust with you. I want you to have a little taste test of what we do. And if you love it and if you want to buy into that and invest into that, then the investment is going to change. We all know that.    It's the same with Fiverr. I want to give you a little taste test. Let me just give it to you for a very low rate. But if you really want to invest in this, then we're going to go to the rates that are established by my business, by me. Because you're already buying into the trust factor of working with me and what I'm offering you is filling the need. So it’s very similar to that if you look at it in that way. There's tons and tons of free offers out there, tons and tons of discounts out there. It's ultimately to get buy-in to invest in what the full rate would be for that product or service.   Anne: That's an interesting way of looking at it. Yeah, you're going to buy in or you're going to get a sample. And you know, it's interesting because for me, I want to project my business as not being cheap, because there's a lot to be said, when we've talked about this before, with branding. I mean, there are certain things when I pay a low amount of money, I think, oh, I wonder what's wrong with that? Or I don’t now, is that — and so for me, I've always elevated my business and my voice to be, you know, here's my rate and it's okay if you can't meet that. Thank you. That's okay. You know, I hope to work with you in the future, but that's okay. I will spend time with people who will value my rate. I have no bitterness. I have no, there's no malice. There's, you know, nothing like that. I don't know exactly the rules of Fiverr right now, forgive me for that. But I don’t know if you have to start at a very low rate or if you have to like work your way up to a certain rate. I'm not sure what it is.   Lau: I don’t think so, Anne.      Anne: Yeah, I think you can start at a reasonable rate.   Lau: When you go on the platform, you're going to see, like, let's say you're looking up a service of an attorney, or let's say you're looking up someone, a musician, you want them to create music for you. You may see a layered approach of, I provide this for this amount. But then if you want this, we're going to layer that on at this amount.   Anne: Yeah. Yeah.   Lau: Then we're going to provide it at this amount. So it isn't this flat, like, $5 or $10 thing.   Anne: Yeah, it's not $5.   Lau: It's very much a layered approach to what they do, and some of them start very high. They'll say this is what I'm worth, this is what it is. I'm on the platform that's known as a discount platform, but I'm not offering your discount. And that's what it is. So it's all over the place, it's all over the place.   Anne: And again, it's all about your business. And it's all about how you run your business.   Lau: It is.   Anne: And I truly believe, and I want this for every BOSS out there. I really, really do. I mean, gosh, guys, I've learned so much in my many years. And Lau, you too, I'm quite positive. I've learned so much about valuing my worth and understanding good clients to work with and knowing where to place myself. And if I need to negotiate a specific rate or a custom rate, which is what we do all the time, pretty much, for every single client, and it needs to be a little bit lower to fit a budget, and it's okay with me, and I know I'm going to get more work, or it'll be worth it in some other way outside of monetary value, that is up to me. That is my judgment. That is my business decision, and it is how I run my business. And I will tell you that being able to walk away and saying no, and I've said this multiple times, has given me the confidence to be able to understand my worth and be able to be successful in my business. And I think however you do that, whether you're on Fiverr, whether you're on another casting website, whether it gives you the confidence at some point that you're like, I don't need this anymore, or I can get my own clients -- I think it's all a stepping stone.    And I think it truly is what I want for all the BOSSes is that confidence. You're worthy of a fair price, whether, no matter what platform you're on. You're worthy of a fair price. And once you have that confidence and the confidence to walk away from a low ball price, right, or something that deems you as cheap, right, then your business will grow. And once your business grows, it's kind of like, it's just like a wonderful little snowball that just gathers the confidence and it gathers, you know, oh, this is great. Now I know what I'm worth, and my business can grow and I can be successful and I can put some money in the bank, right? And then if that if that next client says no or offers me something too low it's okay I can walk away. I've got the money in the bank. I'm able to pay the bills and boom.   Lau: That's right.   Anne: And that's what I want for all of you BOSSes out there, however you get there. Know, know, know your worth.   Lau: Mm-hmm, and it goes right into your submissions if you were with an agency. I'm an agent, and I can tell you, there are times we're working with a budget that is minuscule. It's like, oh my gosh, who could even work for this? And yet we have a lot of folks that want to book that job for many, many reasons. And then the next one that comes in is overpriced. They're giving us too much budget for it, and they don’t realize it.   Anne: But Lau, is there ever really too much?   Lau: No, no, but like, if you see it in the same category, right next to each other, and you're like, Oh, my goodness, this one's offering $400 with no usage. And then this one's offering, you know, $2000 with three years’ usage. You're like, oh my goodness, there isn't much difference between these two. And I know for a fact, I can tell everyone hands down, that I have many people who want to audition and want to submit for both. And I respect that.   Anne: Now as an agent, will you fight for higher rates?   Lau: Oh, always. I mean, that to us is a truism. We're always going to go back and forth on every single thing that comes in and goes, come on, we need another thousand on this. You can do, right? So we're always quoting high.   Anne: You're always fighting for the talent, yes.   Lau: That's not even to be discussed because that's our job. That's what we do.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: And that's what we want to do. But we know, like as negotiators and anyone who's on that business, and we know where it stops. Like if you push just hard enough, you’re going to lose that client. It’s okay, sometimes we’ll lose the battle, but we always want to win the war, so to speak.   Anne: Yeah. Yeah.   Lau: Is that we don't want to lose the client unless it's like completely insane.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: We want to keep the clients because we know we have a whole lot of people who still want to submit and work.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: They just want to work.   Anne: And I love that. I love that you said that, your experience as an agent, because, guys, agents go through it as well. I mean, you're fighting for fair compensation, for good rates. God, it always used to make me wonder, because people would be like, well, my agent shouldn't accept that rate. And I'm like, sometimes the agent has nothing to do with that rate, right? And like you just mentioned, there's a fine line between losing the client forever, right, because you can't push.   Lau: Yeah.   Anne: And understanding that. I mean, voice talent, sometimes I wonder where they get their assumptions from, right? You know what, you've got to understand this is a business, it's negotiation, and that, it happens. It does. Sometimes there is no budget.   Lau: I also don't want to play the omnipotent authority of what everyone could or should be doing. I want to be a conduit to getting people work, and that means at all different rates, at all different levels, at all different -- and those people need to take agency and to self-screen and say, I don't want to do that.   Anne: Exactly.   Lau: I say, great, you don't even have to let me know, just pass on it. That's okay. I don't make any judgment as to why you're doing it or why you're not doing it. I'm just running on an assumption, you're a professional talent, you want to be in the roster, and you want to be privy to what is coming through.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: And that's all I feel. And to me, Fiverr is the same thing. If you want to be on the platform, you want to be privy to what's coming through, and then you make your own decisions and self-screen. To me, it's very, very much the same.   Anne: Excellent topic. The F word, guys. Remember, mind your own business and know your worth. And thank you, Lau, for an amazing discussion yet once again.   Lau: Awesome.   Anne: Ah, good stuff.   Lau: I loved it.   Anne: BOSSes, I want to take a moment and have you imagine a world full of passionate, empowered, diverse individuals, giving collectively and intentionally to create a world that they want to see. You can make a difference. 100VoicesWhoCare.org to learn more. Also, big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like a BOSS. Find out more at IPDTL.com. Thank you so much, everyone. We love you. We'll see you next week.   Lau: See you next week!   Anne: Bye.   Lau: Bye!

In this episode, Anne is joined by special guest Tom Dheere, the Vo Strategist. With over 25 years of experience, Tom knows how to ride the waves of ever-changing technology and market shifts. Discover the secrets to driving traffic to your website through social media, blogging, and top-notch content to keep you ahead of the pack. They share how old-school tactics like cold calling and email marketing might not be cutting it anymore. Boost your confidence with Tom's killer advice on negotiating rates like a BOSS and flipping your approach to snag the rates you truly deserve. Plus, we unveil the controversial truth about Fiverr and how this billion-dollar beast can actually help you charge industry-standard rates… Transcript 0:00:01 - Anne Hey, hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am excited to welcome voiceover business and marketing consultant and VO strategist, Tom Dheere, to the show. As a voice actor with over 25 years of experience, Tom brings a wealth of voiceover knowledge to the table In his one-on-one strategy sessions, diagnostic sessions those sound interesting and his mentorship program, As well as speaker appearances at industry conferences. Tom, I am so excited to have you here today. Thanks for joining me.    0:00:34 - Tom Thanks for having me. It's always a pleasure to chat with you, Anne.    0:00:37 - Anne Tom, you know it's chaotic out there.    I'll tell you what there's disruption, There's, I say, mass panic, and I think that today more than ever, as entrepreneurs and business owners, we need a strategy more than ever. So I am super duper glad that we are here talking to you about that. So let's get a feel for your take on the industry, because you've been in the industry for gosh over 25 years and I'm sure you've seen it evolve, kind of like myself. Talk a little bit about your experience in this industry and how it's evolved over the years.    0:01:20 - Tom Okay, well, i decided I wanted to be a voice actor in 1994, so I was a graduate school dropout, so I got my. I decided in late 94, got most of my. I got my training in my voiceover demo in 95, which is a cassette tape. I still have it here in the drawer. And then when I got that demo, my coach gave me a little certificate and gave me a stack of Xerox copies of production company listings and said you know, start your good, your cold calling good luck. Because in 1995, there was I mean there was an internet and some websites, but there was no.    0:01:57 - Anne Yeah, there was no social media.    0:01:59 - Tom There was no online casting sites, there was no home recording, there was no digital delivery of audio files, there was no phone patch, there was ISDN. But like, who had that besides? like the, the, the rate, you know the major TV networks, you know. So you had to buy cold called and I called, called for a year until I got my first gig, so until I joined voice 123 in 2006,. That was pretty much, that was pretty much the only way to do it, and also I was going into New York city once a week. Voiceover is unlimited and you'd pay whatever was $35 for a 10 minute meet.    Meet up with a casting director or an agent or a manager which is how I got my, my first manager, who I still have to this day, 17, 18 years later. So my cassette turned into a CD which I was duplicating, burning you know. Oh God, the my post office hated my guts.    0:03:04 - Anne Now mail. Yes, cause.    0:03:06 - Tom I had a long a lawn bag of padded mailers and they'd be like, oh geez, here comes Tom again and like, all right, everybody just gets to the side and just tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick you know cause?    0:03:15 - Anne I was just constantly sending it out, yeah, and then that evolved into MP threes. So let's, let's, let's start. I think that there's, there's something, there's a parallel here, a disruption right. Some disruption in the industry right. So it evolved from a tape into a CD, into today, which is all digital right.    0:03:36 - Tom Right And then and then pay a voice bank and voicescom and voice 123 disrupted the voiceover again, again and you know, and now AI is disrupting the voiceover industry. But this is what I say and all my students.    0:03:52 - Anne A pattern Tom. A pattern Tom. Yes, there is a pattern throughout the years, so I don't think that disruption is going to stop anytime soon.    0:04:00 - Tom No, it's going to keep going, and what I like to say is that when the light bulb was invented, it disrupted the candle making industry and nobody cared about the candle makers, except for the candle makers.    0:04:13 - Anne People were saying Oh good I can.    0:04:15 - Tom I can read a book at night without my house burning down. Like that's where everybody was coming from. It's like okay. So the candle makers had a choice They could go to Congress to try to get light bulbs outlawed, they could go la, la, la, la la which a lot of voice actors have been doing especially literally today, this week, on the voiceover groups. Or they could adjust to their candle making industry to accommodate certain parts of the light bulb industry, or they could convert their candle making factory into a light bulb making factory.    So, you can either fight it, ignore it, adapt to it or embrace it. And the voice actors that are going to still be standing for lack of a better term on the other side of AI and whatever the next disruption is, the ones that are adapting, evolving learning, growing, operating from a position of abundance as opposed to a position of scarcity, and not shouting at the rain. They're the ones that are still going to have a viable voiceover career. Yeah.    0:05:08 - Anne Yeah, i'll tell you, it has really it has really wreaked havoc, and I think that you know, gosh, you know, and I've been following it and following it And you know, two years ago on the VO Bus podcast, i mean, i think that you and I can both agree to do due diligence and educate yourself on, you know, evolving technologies or disruptive technologies that can affect your business, and that is so very important that we, you know, truly educate ourselves. And I had done a series of interviews, of which I'm still doing periodically, with you know, large companies, people that are working in synthetic voices, ai companies to kind of get to ask those tough questions like Hey, what's happening here? And are you, you know, is there transparency? You know, what are your ethics? You know, do you have, you know, objectives in terms of protecting?    you know, voices as you go, and I think it's been an educational journey for not just me as a business owner and a voice artist, but for the AI companies as well. I think we are all learning and evolving with technology as we go, and I've had experience doing that myself, you know, working in technology for over 20 years, and I still consider myself working in technology. So, in terms of you know your, your students and and your clients. What is your? what is your biggest tip now for, let's say, people coming into the industry, how to get a handle on this industry and be successful.    0:06:43 - Tom Do as much research as you possibly can. Work with professional coaches who are boots on the ground blue collar voice actors as well like who are actively engaged in the voiceover industry. That's not to say that there's not genre coaches out there, like Mary Lynn Wissner, for example, who is not a voice actor but is an amazing coach.    There are only a handful of people like that, as you know and but people who are actively, who have to continue to grow and evolve with the industry to maintain relevance in the industry And be better than the AIs on a storytelling level as quickly as you possibly can.    0:07:23 - Anne Yeah.    0:07:24 - Tom Because they are getting better and better almost daily. Are they going to completely take over the entire voiceover industry? No, Are they going to. you know, take away a percentage of certain jobs of certain genres, mostly for entry level voice actors Yes, yeah. The trick is how do you get good enough that, when you're starting your voiceover journey, that you're already better than the AIs, so you can kind of leap over?    that hurdle and be a human narrator as quickly as possible. That's going to be the challenge. What I think that means is the people that are more naturally talented, the people who have theater training, the people who have on-camera film and TV training, improv training, those people coming into the industry which are all parts of what defines a better actor are going to have a better chance than people just coming at it from other sectors. Frankly, i mean, a registered nurse has every right to stop being a nurse and try to do medical narration for a living, and I encourage that. I've trained people like that, you've trained people like that over the years, but it's going to get harder and harder if they don't have natural storytelling billing, natural storytelling ability, or they haven't been trained in non-voiceover storytelling. So get as many acting classes as you can under your belt. Get as many improv classes under your belt so you can learn how to make strong choices quickly, which is a key to being a good narrator. Understand the technology and maybe get your voice cloned as quickly as possible.    0:09:05 - Anne That's very interesting. I'm finding that I do have some people, because I did the series and I've been investigating and educating myself with AI companies for the past few years, i've had people ask me, and not all of them want to shout the rafters saying, oh, i'm out there trying to figure out how to get my voice cloned or how to get a synthetic voice. But what's interesting is that synthetic voice, the companies that are creating synthetic voices. They're also evolving and changing on a daily basis, and so it's really important that, as voice actors, you keep up with that, and I'm always a big proponent of if you have a business, you want to understand the market in which you're selling And so part of that market. If the market is changing. And, tom, as a business person, you're all about researching and looking at the market as it evolves over the years. And where do you see the market heading in terms of voiceover casting? Where are we going to be able to get these jobs, or where can voiceover talent find work? And I know that's the golden question, right.    People like they expect a five-minute answer from me. Where can I get voiceover work? But where do you see that evolving and heading as we move on in the future?    0:10:27 - Tom That's a great question, Anne. There will still always be a place for needing agents, managers and casting directors for high end work, class A national commercials, high end video games and cartoons, high end promo, high end in show narration. I don't think that's ever. I don't think that's ever going to change. Casting sites are going to continue to be as relevant as ever and is still the the most effective way for new voice actors to onboard into the industry. Because you can. All you need is a credit card and you could just join the casting site and start auditioning immediately.    The interesting part is going to be the direct marketing part which. I learned the hard way when all of my direct marketing strategies, which worked like gangbusters in 2013, 14, 15, 16, all of a sudden stopped working because, so many of those production companies recording studios that I had worked with through direct marketing strategies have moved to online casting sites just because it's easier for them to curate a roster, manage talent, manage projects.    So, um, ai is going to take a chunk out of online casting sites. It's going to take a chunk out of direct marketing clients the low end stuff and stuff that would never normally get like there's audio books out there that will never get produced unless it's an AI voice.    0:11:51 - Anne It's going to do it out of interest or ergonomics or just sure, whatever that sure whatever the rights holder can, um, can afford.    0:11:57 - Tom So you also new students, when it comes to this kind of strategies, need to figure out what. How does what a success look like for them, Which genres do they want to be successful in And which portals do they need to access to become successful in said genres? So if you want to be on the next Pixar film or be in the next fallout video game, you need to get a lot of training, you need to get a top notch demo, you need to get high end agents and you're going to eventually need to join SAG-AFTRA. That's not. That's not changing for everybody else. You know the pendulum is going to swing, stuff's going to move or stuff's going to move around, but you're still going to need you're still going to need the aforementioned good training, good demo good website, good home recording.    Um, and the ability to keep up with industry's trends by reading blogs, watching podcasts like this um, working with coaches like, like you and me. Um, it's going to what, what percentage of what genre is going to get lost and where you're going to need to go for each of it. I mean, who can? who can say, but if you have, if, if online casting sites stigmatize you, get over it get in there develop your skills develop your auditioning skills.    0:13:10 - Anne That was it. That was the nugget of the day. That was awesome Sound right of the day. Yeah.    0:13:14 - Tom Because online casting sites like I'm. I know because I'm on voice 123. I audition every day and I regularly see clients that are posting casting notices that I used to work with five, six, seven, eight, 10 years ago, who won't take my phone calls anymore because they're on casting sites. That's the only way they'll talk to me And I'm totally fine with that, because you said you got to go where the buyers are. you got to go where the market is going. That's where they are. That's where you need to be.    0:13:41 - Anne I think there's something to say If we just tell every boss out there, you know, first of all, um, be a boss, right And understand that you really have to stop. And I think, take a uh, uh, take a look at the bigger picture. The bigger picture is we're providing a product, uh, to a market, the market. You have to evolve with the market. It's not about you know, uh, oh, my gosh, it's, it's, it's you know your voice over business and your craft and your and your art, which I completely, yes, it is. But honestly, you know, at the end of the day, right, i want to pay my mortgage, right, and if I want to have a business, it always amazes me, tom, how you know you go to conferences and I know you know when, when, cause I used to, i used to teach business classes as well. Whenever you go to see which classes fill up first, it's always the performance classes, it's always the cartoon and video game.    Always those because, well, okay, so they're fine, they they allow the creativity. But, honestly, you know, beyond the fun and the creativity in the booth, you've got to be able to run a business that will make a profit. If you want to write, if you want to do this as a business and you want and you're serious about it I mean, if it's you know, if it's a hobby, that's a difference, that's a different podcast. Sure, you know, and I think that you know what you offer, you know, to people as a, a VO strategist or even just a business strategist, is invaluable. And I truly think, bosses out there, you've got to step back.    Um, and yes, of course you know, create the product that the market is demanding Right, and and also know how to run your business right. And so I love your story that you know the people that used to take your calls no longer will take your calls. You know your calls and now you have to work with them on the platform, and mostly because it's easy and more convenient And I will be the first person to ask any of you bosses out there if you're using any form of AI to do anything. Let's say, create a blog post or, you know, maybe play around and change your headshot And you're using the technology to make your jobs better, more efficient, then you cannot be the person that gets upset if you're not, let's say, evolving along with the synthetic voice aspect of it.    0:16:06 - Tom You know, absolutely.    0:16:08 - Anne I mean. So, as we talk to peer to peer, i think, or pay to play platforms, i think online casting is absolutely. What about Tom? let's talk about what about your website, your online platform, your online storefront? What do you think about that in terms of being able to market your business?    0:16:29 - Tom Okay, it's funny because people coming into the industry, you know most of them realize they need some kind of training and then they realize, oh, i need to record from home. You know I need a demo. And then almost all of them think, well, i need some kind of website. But they don't know why they need a website. They don't know how to build a website and they don't know what is necessary to create an effective website. What I tell my students is that no one is gonna find your website nobody.    There are literally tens of thousands of voice actor websites out there. The odds of them typing in some stuff on Google, bing, yahoo and finding you is virtually impossible. I mean, tomdeercom is over 20 years old and I've been blogging for 14 years, so I've got really good SEO and I rarely get found on it. Anyway, the point is, your job as a voice actor is to drive traffic to your website, and you do that by being on social media, blogging, creating a presence, creating conversations, creating quality content to get them to notice you. And then there's email marketing and cold calling, which I'm sure you realize that they don't work a fraction as well as they used to, because why should they answer the phone of some voice actor trying to talk about themselves, when they're just gonna go to an online casting site to cast their next project. They're already more than halfway down the sales funnel anyway on an online casting site, as opposed to trying to get them into the sales funnel through cold calling and all that.    So driving traffic to your website is extremely important, and then get them to do the most important thing, which is download your demos.    0:18:12 - Anne Everything else, is irrelevant Or click it back. I mean, everything else is secondary to downloading the demo. Right, yeah, but now downloading the demo? now we've got there's the fear. There's now there's some fear that if we allow our audio, you know, freely out there and I, you know I have podcast, you have podcast. Anybody can download this podcast I've been doing it for six years and potentially turn it into a voice.    0:18:40 - Tom Okay, Look everybody. I've been doing this for 25 years. I have done thousands and thousands of voiceover projects. I've probably done tens of thousands of auditions over the years, I guarantee my voice has been cloned without my knowledge many times over.    I guarantee that auditions that I have you, that I have done, has been used for broadcast without my consent or without compensation. Every website that exists is going to get hacked at some point. None of our data is safe, it's just not. All you can do is do the best you can to mitigate your risk. try to be secure. I can't worry about submitting my demo and worrying about it getting cloned.    I mean if I, if I was worried about that, i wouldn't have a career. I would. I'd be quadruple bolting the door and hiding in the bathtub. There's just nothing you can do about it. So don't worry about don't worry about that. Put the demo out there. I mean because the the the odds of it happening are extremely slim, but the longer you're here, the more likely it's going to happen. It's just you know well.    0:19:45 - Anne Tom, i mean, i think I think really again, we we talk about that bad actors, um, which is so interesting in our industry. Now, the term bad actor, right. Had I not really delved in deep to talking to people outside of my own industry, i would not have known what the bad actor meant. Um, outside of, like the literal meaning of it, right, but the bad actors meaning those companies, right, or those people that may take advantage, unfair advantage, um, with the in in clone voices, without permission, create deep fakes, all of those things. There's always that possibility And I had such an interesting conversation the other day with Shyamala Praga, who is very well known in the AI industry.    Um, regarding, you know, laws and regulations and and instead of being reactive which is what we typically are right, reactive, something bad happens and then a law or you know some sort of policy is is established that then, you know, takes care of it. Um, really trying to again educate all of us, not just in our industry but everywhere, that, um, these things could potentially happen and we need to protect ourselves from bad things. Um, you know, what are your thoughts about? I mean, i, like, i really love your, your, your perspective on you can't be worrying about that all the time, but are there any steps that you would recommend to to, let's say, to protect um or to be cautious about that? I mean, i certainly am not going to make my demo not downloadable because I want it to be convenient for people to listen and buy.    0:21:20 - Tom You have to have it. It has to be downloadable because, when it comes to your direct marketing strategies and driving traffic to your website, the odds of them having a voiceover project for you right now, at the time that you have marketed to them successfully and they've actually gone to your website to review your demos, the odds of them actually having a gig for you is infinitesimally small. I can count, i think, on two fingers in 25 years that that's actually happened. Representation and online casting insights are for opportunities now. Direct marketing, driving traffic to your website is for opportunities.    later They're not going to remember you once they leave that website of yours You need to have. They need to walk away with the demo, so they stick it in a folder somewhere in their cloud or on their desktop, so when an opportunity comes along that you may be right, for your demo was right there for them to review, or if again another thing that I always like- to say is that, no matter what in a marketplace and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, there are I will pay for things that make my life easier and make my life more convenient.    0:22:25 - Anne So, for example, i hate, i always use this my lipstick. So my lipstick is reliable, dependable, stays on all day, i don't have to put it on again And I you know I use that as an example product. I pay a lot of money for this lipstick. Now I certainly feel that no matter. Look AI, you know pay to play sites, you know driving down, you know rates. I no matter what. If somebody likes and gangooza right and likes her product, they're going to pay the money and they're going to remember me and they're going to buy it again and again. I'd love to hear your thoughts.    0:22:58 - Tom You go to a department store and there's five pairs of shoes on on the shelf and four of them cost, you know, $75 and one of them cost $800.    Everybody immediately goes and looks at oh, what's this? What's the value of this? Why is it worth $800? Well, if they says it's worth $800, then clearly it must be worth $800. So I will happily spend $800 on this pair of shoes. So most people coming into the voiceover industry are broke and perceive themselves as an employee or a starving artist. They are already immediately devaluing themselves and training voice seekers to devalue them.    So it's a systems of, it's a systems of thought problem. And I'm not going to sit here and blow sunshine up everybody's butt and say you're special, you're wonderful, you're, you're going to. All your dreams are going to come true, because that's not what the VOStratigist does. This VOStratigist does not sell dreams. The VOStratigist sells reality.    My job is to give you objective data so you can set, you can make informed decisions about your voiceover career. But you want to do everything you can to set yourself up for success And the first step one is mindset. Know your worth. Know your worth based on your pure talent, know your worth based on your training, know your worth based on your experience. And know your worth based on what the industry standards are.    Sag After over here GVAA over there, Know what your worth is and comport yourself And it's maybe it's a little fake it till you make it. I don't. I'm not sure you can do that. Having confidence and being confident in your training and your talent and your understanding of the rates, That should empower you to make sure that people aren't buying stuff from you that are shopping in the wrong aisle.    0:24:56 - Anne And also, i would say, as a as a talent just coming in, i don't think you can expect to get into or to become a top tier you know, professional without making an investment. I mean, that's the other thing too. I cannot tell you how many people they'll be like. You know, i really need coaching, but I just I don't have any. You know, they don't have the budget they don't have And, and so in reality, there has to be those things in place. You can't expect to go in and make a ton of money without investing in yourself and investing in that, in that coaching that's going to help you to be the most human voice actor that you can be.    0:25:37 - Tom Patience is one of the most important skills that you need to have as a new voice actor. Everyone wants to start talking for money as quickly as possible and using their funny cartoon voices that their dentist told them is hilarious And that's all. That's all great, but if you can't afford the training yet, build a budget create a savings plan.    be patient, find community theaters or summer theater programs that have free acting and improv training, and develop your foundation of storytelling skills while you're saving money to work with a professional coach like Anne, or work with a VO strategist you know a business marketing consultant like me. There's a ton of things that you can do. But if you dive in when you're not ready or you go with the first demo coach that you can afford and submit to that demo to those agents for the first time, it's not gonna go well.    It's not gonna go well. So I'll never tell anybody not to pursue their dreams, but I will tell everybody to be smart about pursuing their dreams by having. This is what I like to say no matter what you're doing in life, do it with both hands and on a flat surface. Be smart about it, i learned that when I tried to open an Amazon box with a pair of open scissors like this, which we've all done, Oh, yeah, yeah, not yeah. Both hands flat surface.    0:26:58 - Anne Very guilty of that. So then, let me talk a little. let's talk a little bit about rates, because what is your best advice for those actors who might be struggling to find work at their desired rates when you know there is this perceived? you know, race to the bottom, with technology disrupting What, how can they pivot their approach to succeed and get rates that they deserved?    0:27:21 - Tom Learn how to negotiate. And it's not like a Middle East Bazaar where you're haggling over the price of, you know, a goat or something.    It's just the better that you can understand the rate structure of voiceover on a session level and on a usage level, the better, the more empowered you are to educate your clients or potential clients, because for so many casting notices that I see, or so many emails hey, i found you on Google, whatever they've never cast a voiceover in their life.    They haven't the faintest idea what the ergonomics are, what project management is involved or what the rate structure is. Being experienced it's not necessarily a correlation between being professional and experienced. You don't have to be experienced to be professional To understand there is a rate structure. I understand what the rate structure is and I'm able to articulate it to somebody who has no idea how the voiceover industry works. The more that you can do that, the more empowered you are to get industry standard rates and the more empowered you are to educate voice seekers to value you and not let them use cheap rates. Well, i paid this guy five bucks. I'm gonna leverage it to get you to pay you five bucks where you say no, you don't do that You gotta think long term.    You have to value yourself and your fellow voice actors, because every time you accept a ratty rate, you're making it harder for everybody else. Every time you accept an industry standard rate, you're making it easier for everybody else.    0:28:51 - Anne Now, but okay. So then here's the question. Yes, i agree that there should be the thought process about the industry as a whole. However, you will always have those voice actors that it is their business, right? I'm a big proponent of saying mind your own business. That means, don't worry about how other people get their business. In that respect, though, do you know what I'm saying? I truly believe I want people to understand their worth in order to make a bold and take the challenge to actually negotiate that worth with a potential client. So, speaking of five bucks, i know that you had talked to me a little bit about an experiment that you had conducted using the online pay to play the F word, fiverr.    And I personally, i'm one of those people that thinks we need to talk about this because it is a viable marketplace in the well viable it exists in our industry. Let's put it that way you may not agree with it and you may not feel that it values your worth, but what were your findings? What do you think about Fiverr?    0:29:58 - Tom Okay, it had been coming up so much in conversations with my students, with my fellow voice actors, fellow coaches, producers, panelists at conferences And, like I said, my job as a video strategist is to collect objective data so I can help my students make thoughtful, informed decisions about how to move their voiceover business forward. Fiverr is real, it is here. It's a billion dollar company. There are thousands and thousands of voice actors on it. So I needed to understand what exactly it is, why it is and how it works. So I created an account, I followed the tutorials, i looked at YouTube videos, i built a profile and then you build what are called gigs And a gig is basically broken down by genre.    I will narrate I'm an American voice actor who will narrate your explainer video or e-learning module or whatever And then what you do is you build the rate, but you're breaking it down bit by bit. So This is what really fascinated me about it is if someone said to you and I've got an explainer video, how much do you charge? and you probably charge what? 400, 500, whatever sometime around there But if you actually broke down by dollar, how much it costs for you to record the video, how much it costs to edit the video, to clean up, process, format, save, deliver. Do retakes give you permission to use the video in a certain way on a certain platform? if you chop up that $400 into all those little individual things, that's basically what you're doing on Fiverr. So it could say base price $5, but then if you add deliver as a wave file, deliver it within 24 hours you know, we'll only get two retakes.    Mvp, I'll move you up to the front of the line, If you, then if you go da-da-da-da, then the total can be $400. It can be an industry standard rate. Fiverr saying oh, we get everything's for five bucks.    0:32:05 - Anne It's more of a marketing position than anything else. And if you think about that in reality, right, if they're going for that market for the people who don't right, who don't have a lot of money to spend and they want to go for lower priced, saying Fiverr and marketing themselves as Fiverr, get affordable, then absolutely I mean as a business they built for a market where there was a hole And yeah, and now of course, because they have so many voice artists on it right.    that increases their SEO value, which increases, you know, ease, convenience, of use, and so that's what makes them you know the force that they are in the industry.    0:32:49 - Tom Right. So there's three levels on Fiverr And if you earn a certain amount of money and a certain amount of timing, get a certain amount of ratings in a certain amount of time, then you go to the next level and then the top level and the people at the top level charge industry standard rates and they do fine. The trick is kind of punching through that membrane from the first level to the second, in the second to the third. I feel like that's where it can be challenging.    0:33:12 - Anne Yeah, and I feel like you'd have to work that, because I think you have to earn that right, you have to get so many ratings, and I feel like you'd have to actually work the platform for a bit so that you could get up the ratings, so that you could climb up the ladder, so that you could charge industry rates. But, although not impossible, it's a very interesting concept. And because we are talking about it, bosses, doesn't necessarily mean we are condoning that platform, i mean. But if you look at it from a business standpoint, it absolutely, you know it covered a hole in the market and logically I can see how that works.    I absolutely can see how that works Now, do I love that? it makes voiceover seem cheap? No, not at all. And I think to each and everyone out there, it is up to you to make that decision whether you want your brand associated with that brand, because that's a whole other way of doing business, right? So, again, you're almost working for the platform And then that platform represents your brand versus, let's say, for me, i've always been let's do it myself, and you know, seo for me.    I've been online for years and it's worked in my favor And I've built up a great clientele list And I'm very fortunate that I'm able to continue on that. And while I am a member of a lot of pay to place, i don't have time to actually audition. And you know, for me, email marketing well, it's probably not quite as effective. Well, it's hard to say. I still believe that there's effectiveness in email marketing if you've got the right message and you have the right subject line, because people have less and less of an attention span. But it's one of the reasons why I built the VO Boss Blast. It was a way to help direct market talent, so that they didn't, you know, and I basically started it for myself. Isn't that like every company.    0:35:05 - Tom Right, if you create a product you want, help You do it to serve your needs.    0:35:09 - Anne I did it because I was like I don't have time. I want to do the podcast, i want to do VOPs, i want to be you know, i'm coaching, so I don't have a ton of time, so let me just create a direct marketing product that I can use. And then, of course, i shared that.    0:35:24 - Tom I do want to say for the record I have not booked anything on Fiverr. I set up my gig, i made adjustments to my rates because you're supposed to refresh it and try to feed the algorithm. I couldn't. I also did the same exercise on Upwork and it worked similarly and I got the same results. I could not. I could not book anything. I guess that just means I'm not a particularly good voice actor.    0:35:47 - Anne No, I think it's because you didn't have 100% of your right time to really devote to it. I mean, that's what. I think That's a part of it.    0:35:55 - Tom And the other thing is understanding the economies of the voice seekers, absolutely.    0:35:59 - Anne Diversify the economies and understanding of you know, money and how it works, of the country of origin of the voice actor too, absolutely, and Tom, i'll be the first one to say I mean, we've been in this business a long time. If you were on Voice 123 in 2006, right, you remember? Freelancer.    0:36:17 - Tom Oh, i was on Freelancer. Oh good, so was I. And Elanzen and Guru, yeah, i was on all of them.    0:36:22 - Anne So all of those evolved into Fiverr.    Really, that's really it was that it was like who could bid the lowest right? And I will tell you that, as a you know, entering into the online space, i mean that's where I did get some jobs. Now, did I take jobs that were probably not what I was worth? Yeah, I did, i did, but I learned quickly, you know, and it was a tough, it was a tight, it was frustrating because it was always people under bidding And so you get that type of client, but what you do is you learn about where those clients right, those are the clients that don't value your product Not necessarily you but they don't value the product enough to pay the price right.    0:37:01 - Tom They want to pay the cheapest, the biggest of the pain they are.    0:37:04 - Anne Exactly, exactly So. Wow, what a great conversation, tom. This has been so wonderful and enlightening for the bosses out there. I'm quite sure, tom, how can people get in touch with you and work with you?    0:37:17 - Tom Oh, go to vostrategistcom. I encourage you to book a free 15 minute consult. We can talk about any part of the voiceover industry that you want. I also have a video shop where I've got closing in on 30 different videos covering everything in the voiceover industry, from time management to workflow to genre exploration to managing your finances. I also have a great mentorship program where you can do 30 minute check-ins with me once a week, once a month or twice a month. It also gives you access to some of those videos for free. But, yeah, book a session with me, free session with me at vostrategistcom, and I'd love to chat with you.    0:37:50 - Anne Good stuff, tom. Yeah, bosses, today more than ever we need a strategy for moving forward in our business. So go to it, tom. Thank you again. I would like to talk to you bosses about. As individuals, you know, it can seem difficult to make a huge impact, but as a group, we can contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never thought possible. Visit 100voiceswhocareorg to learn how And a big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl You too can connect in network like bosses like Tom and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye-bye.    Transcribed by https://podium.page

Embark on a sonic journey with Anne and audio expert, Gillian Pelkonen, as they explore the world of microphones. From understanding the difference between dynamic, condenser, and ribbon mics, to unraveling the pricing mystery and debunking the 'quality equals cost' myth, your hosts cover it all. Learn what makes a great microphone, how to choose the best one for your unique voice, and how to navigate the complex pricing landscape. Whether you're a seasoned pro or just starting out, this episode is your ticket to achieving your dream sound without breaking the bank.   Transcript   Anne Ganguzza (00:01.171) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am so excited to bring back once again, very special guest, audio engineer, musician, and all around amazing tech person, Gillian Pelkonen. Hey, Gillian.   Gillian (00:18.462) Hi, so good to be back talking to you and the bosses.   Anne Ganguzza (00:24.311) Yes, I love talking to you because, wait, hang on a second here. I know it's corny, but here. Is this thing on?   Gillian (00:33.543) Oh, it's on. Let me tell you, it is on.   Anne Ganguzza (00:39.433) How do I sound?   Gillian (00:41.738) Honestly, I'm not even saying this because we're on. I think that you sound great and this podcast sounds so great and your audio editor who is listening to this now, you don't need me to tell you, but you're doing a good job. I really like how it sounds because I listen to a lot of stuff and I'm very critical. I'm always like, oh, I don't really like that. But I really like the way VioBoss sounds.   Anne Ganguzza (00:45.727) Ha ha ha!   Anne Ganguzza (00:54.953) Aww.   Anne Ganguzza (01:01.676) Well, I would imagine an audio engineer listening to a podcast. I mean, that's what you do. So I think there's so many contributing factors to what really produces great sound. And I know that we've talked about studios in the past and things that we can do to create great sound. But we haven't really concentrated on   Gillian (01:09.523) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (01:20.43) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (01:25.707) this guy right here because first of all we were always maintaining that you didn't have to have a great mic to sound great. However, I think that it would be really a good topic. Yes, there you go. I think it would be a good time to talk about microphones.   Gillian (01:27.17) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (01:33.697) Mm-hmm. Expensive. Expensive is...   Gillian (01:41.694) It's not really, there's, yeah. Yeah, no, I totally agree. And I always say that great mics come at many different price points and people think, oh, a great mic is the $1,000 mic, is the $1,500 mic, even like the $800 mic. And that's not.   always, you know, it's not always true and there is a lot that goes into microphones and I am learning more and more all the time. Realistically, the price point has a lot to do with like how it's made, where it's made, but if you break down what's inside the mic, which I don't know if any like, I don't even know if audio engineers care about this, but like there's the capsules and the transformers and all of those things that are in the mic that are what produce the sound quality that either makes it more expensive or less expensive or sometimes   Anne Ganguzza (02:03.241) Mm.   Gillian (02:29.928) expensive mic has the same inside design as a more expensive one, but it's just like a brand thing or that might not be 100% correct, but it is true that people will take the shell of one type of mic and they can make the insides and kind of scope it out to be similar electronics to a more expensive mic. So I don't know, it's not all about the price point, it's all about what you what you think.   Anne Ganguzza (02:35.079) Mmm.   Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (02:54.087) So do I dare ask, have you gone inside the capsule? I mean, have you taken, I mean, is that what you do? Do you go into microphones sometimes to check them out, repair them, just be geekily interested?   Gillian (03:08.154) Sometimes you have to fix... I haven't opened up microphones. I mean a lot of the times like if you're looking at... well you have a you have like a pop filter windscreen on yours because I know you use a 416 and I use a KMS 105   Anne Ganguzza (03:22.022) Mm-mm.   I do.   Gillian (03:28.83) which is just my talking mic. I like to use it for vocals. It's one of the only mics I own because I work at so many studios. I can just basically use whatever mics are there. But this one I love for singing, for talking. It's a really good live mic. But it has like an... I wish I could like take it off without disrupting the audio, but I can't. It has like an outer windscreen, like a metal windscreen that a lot of mics have. And if you look, you can actually see the capsule in there.   Gillian (03:58.784) looking at capsules is if you shine a flashlight in you can like really see it. But no, to answer your question in a long-winded way, I haven't taken apart a mic yet. I have been doing a lot of looking at the inside of like outboard gear, like pre-amplifiers and stuff like that, but microphones are on the list for me to look at.   Anne Ganguzza (04:18.235) Well, so because you use so many different types of microphones, I think, in your everyday job being an audio engineer, you're not just working with voiceover artists. You're working with musicians. I'd love to like, can you break it down for the bosses? Like, let's make it easy. Like, what are the different types of microphones? Like, would...   Gillian (04:26.274) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (04:32.718) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (04:40.398) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (04:43.908) a voiceover artist from what I understand that we're not gonna be using the same mics as a musician necessarily. So let's talk about those types of mics, differences in microphones, like from a very bass level.   Gillian (04:48.407) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (04:57.09) Yes, there are basically three different types of microphones and the types are determined a lot by how they work but a lot of what is going on inside of them. So there's dynamic microphones which are never really used for voice, they're used for other things. And then there's condenser mics which are used by voice actors and used a lot for voice and for detailed things. And then there are ribbon mics which are not usually used for speaking voice. So basically as a voice actor all you need to worry about are condenser mics.   microphones, but there are other types of microphones that work for other things that you want to be recording. I could go into more detail about them, but I don't know how necessary it is for voice actors. They always say dynamic mics are durable. That's like, I mean, you use certain ones for voice, like a SM57 or SM58, which is like a   Anne Ganguzza (05:43.945) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (05:50.046) you go to a house party or you go to like a live event, someone's going to be using one of those microphones, the joke is like they're $99 and you can throw them off a building and they'll still work. Like they are so durable. They're, they're so, I don't know. It's   Anne Ganguzza (05:50.047) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (05:56.952) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (06:01.801) Ha ha!   Gillian (06:05.786) I think I don't know how to break one without like submerging it in water. And condenser mics are known for being sensitive, which is why we want to use them with our voice because there's so many intricacies in your voice and in your performance that need to be picked up. And ribbon mics, they're ribbons because they have a little metal ribbon on the inside and it's part of how it works. And those are more sensitive mics and use those a lot either on like, I mean, I know we use them a lot for like guitar amps or like horn instruments because you can be really   Anne Ganguzza (06:15.071) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (06:35.76) loud and it like smooths out the signal from my understanding of how I use them and what I know about them.   Anne Ganguzza (06:41.199) Ah, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And so a voice artist wants to use the condenser mic. And so for our podcast, OK, so I will say in my studio here, I've got a couple of different mics. Now before I purchased my 416, I had a TLM 103, which I also have here in the studio, which I like.   Gillian (06:48.706) condenser microphone. Yeah, TLDR, condenser mic.   Gillian (07:03.83) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (07:08.579) But even before that, I had a Rode NT1 mic. And of course, I went through, I think, the gamut of price ranges. And I think when I started, I mean, goodness, I just admitted the other day on a podcast that when I was streaming live from my living room, my first VO peeps meetups, I used a USB mic that was the Blue Snowball. And from there, I went to a Rode NT. And then I went to an AT2020 too, which I think was...   Gillian (07:16.834) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (07:27.618) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (07:37.127) you know, in terms of expensiveness was not that expensive, but I thought it was a decent mic. And I think at that point, you know, what would you say in terms of the different types of mics? Cause like my TLM 103 was over a thousand dollars, you know, compared to my AT2020, which is like right now, I think you can buy one for $99. What would you say is the biggest difference between those two mics?   Gillian (07:40.61) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (07:51.255) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (07:57.659) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (08:06.047) I mean, without knowing a ton about what goes into either of them, I do kind of, like I said before, I think the price difference does come from parts. And so...   Anne Ganguzza (08:10.419) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (08:17.503) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (08:18.162) I would assume the capsule inside of a Tlm 103 is more expensive than the other one, the electronics. Really upgrading, when we talk about upgrading mics, it does come with a price, but if you think about what the mic is, it's the capsule, everything inside, the electronics working together, higher quality materials will produce a higher quality signal that's recorded into your computer. So, can you get a lower priced mic that sounds good? Yes.   Anne Ganguzza (08:32.838) Mm-hmm   Gillian (08:47.956) of we're degrading the audio quality and listening to it through a phone speaker or out of computer speakers. So having really a really good signal to start with is great but sometimes it's not, basically you can get a signal that sounds good enough to sound professional at those lower price points but I do think it all comes down to.   Anne Ganguzza (08:53.927) Mm.   Anne Ganguzza (09:04.255) Basically you can get a signal that sounds good enough to sound rational.   Gillian (09:10.786) price of materials and sometimes like prestige of brand, at least a little bit, because there are a lot of brands that I know like Warm Audio, Flea Audio, they make remakes of vintage mics, but also they make like remakes of like a U87, which U87s are still sold, which basically all of the remakes is kind of what I was talking about earlier, similar parts to get a similar sound without the brand price point.   Anne Ganguzza (09:14.343) like the Steve Huff brand. Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (09:26.727) Remakes of like a U87, which is still sold. Which basically all of the remakes is kind of what I was talking about earlier.   Anne Ganguzza (09:40.211) So it's not necessarily, and I know we've talked about this before, so it's not necessary for a voice artist to get good sound by paying more for a microphone.   Gillian (09:50.478) Mm-hmm.   Yeah, it's like anything when you're starting out in a business. Like I keep talking about my tech work because it's on my mind. I've been doing it all week. I just bought a soldering iron and I bought a $40 soldering iron and the guy I'm working with has a $200 one, but I don't know how much I'm going to be doing it. I'm just dipping my toes in. I don't have a big budget for something that's not paying me back yet. And so it's kind of like this is my intro thing and it works. We're doing the same work. It works. One day would I want the more expensive one? Maybe. Just to have a higher quality.   Anne Ganguzza (10:10.459) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (10:21.807) Yeah.   Gillian (10:23.013) But you know when you're especially for people who are starting you got to have something to work up to and something to you know get started with because who is starting a voiceover and has a couple thousand dollars to drop on microphones I don't know anybody   Anne Ganguzza (10:30.843) Sure.   Anne Ganguzza (10:38.735) Yeah, that's rare. That's rare. And I do know that it took me, oh gosh, at least 10 years to get my TLM 103, because my Rode NT1, which was a few hundred dollars, did a great job for me for many years, at least six years, in the voiceover industry. And I finally decided, well, you know what? I mean, people talk about the TLM 103, and I   Gillian (10:47.464) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (10:57.774) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (11:05.763) I actually went for that one before I bought my 416, and then I decided that after I got my TLM 103 and I moved to a new studio, I would entertain the 416 because I was also thinking about my 416 for a travel mic. And so I think in terms of microphones, and you were talking about sensitivity before, I know that, you know,   Gillian (11:09.806) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (11:23.445) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (11:29.367) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (11:31.803) I have, you know, sitting outside of the studio, I have a Shure SM7B, which I use because I'm not in my studio, but it's a lot of podcasts, you know, use that mic, podcast hosts use that mic, because it doesn't pick up a lot of external noise and it sounds good kind of no matter what environment you're in. However, the higher the mic price, the higher the sensitivity, it seems. My TLM 103 picks up like, you know, a fly.   Gillian (11:36.526) Mm-hmm.   Mm-hmm.   Gillian (11:56.162) Mmm.   Anne Ganguzza (12:00.463) you know, or a breath, like super easily. And my 416 does as well, but I have to be in a particular location, right? It picks up more in the front of the mic versus the TLM 103, which picks up all the way around. So I guess maybe it has to do with, you know, it's something, it's called the cardioid pattern, is that correct?   Gillian (12:01.098) Yeah.   Gillian (12:11.104) Yeah.   Gillian (12:22.522) I know, yeah, yes, we're talking about polar patterns. It's so interesting, I hear you talking and I'm like, I know exactly why you think these things. Because it is interesting, the SM7B is a dynamic microphone actually, but it has a cardioid polar pattern and we use those all the time. I personally don't like the way my voice sounds on it for singing purposes, but a ton of people love it. It's a great studio microphone just in the music recording environment. If you wanna be in the control room,   Anne Ganguzza (12:24.819) Mm-hmm. Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza (12:36.638) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (12:50.291) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (12:52.336) singing with stuff playing back on the speakers. It's a great mic because it's dynamic and because of the pickup pattern, because it doesn't feedback the way if you use the TLM 103 with speakers, just the pickup pattern, it would feedback. Anyway, am I losing everybody? I'm sorry. I'm just nerding out. Basically, what we're talking about is TLM 103. It's actually a large...   Anne Ganguzza (12:54.778) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (13:02.419) Right.   Gillian (13:17.154) I'm pretty sure it's a medium or large diaphragm condenser mic. And so the polar pattern is more wide and the capsule is bigger, so it's more precise and it picks up more sound. The issue that I personally have with the 416 that we can talk about is not everyone has good mic technique with it. And because the pickup pattern of that mic is so precise, I don't know...   Anne Ganguzza (13:21.138) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (13:40.999) Mmm.   Gillian (13:46.262) I don't know exactly what the pickup pattern is of it, but it's definitely cardioid if not like super cardioid, which means the pickup pattern area is even smaller. I find people love that mic because they say, oh, I hear a lot of things that like, once I have this mic, then I'll sound great. And people get a 416, they spend a lot of money on it, and then they're outside the range of where the mic picks up. And then it's like, I can't...   Anne Ganguzza (13:52.703) Mm-hmm. It's smaller. Mm-hmm.   Gillian (14:11.282) hear you, you know? So I don't know, technique is a big part of sounding good on a mic too. It's not just about the gear, it's knowing where the mic's picking up and just positioning yourself in that area so that it gets you the best sound.   Anne Ganguzza (14:13.444) Yeah, yeah.   Anne Ganguzza (14:26.803) That makes so much sense. And I know that one of the reasons why I love the 416 for travel is because you end up in environments where it's less than ideal. And so, I mean, you're not like in my studio here, I've got all my acoustic panels, it's built, it's double walled. And so I have a really good environment in which I'm recording. But when I go travel and I'm in a hotel, I don't have this studio. And so...   Gillian (14:28.834) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (14:39.587) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (14:49.846) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (14:56.075) I need something that is not gonna pick up the hum of the air conditioner or the fan that's in the room. And the 416 I found to make a huge difference. And yeah, you're so right about understanding like your mic and how to use it and mic technique because I have to be in a particular place in order to make my voice sound good with the 416, close to the proximity.   Gillian (15:02.058) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (15:23.379) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (15:25.347) versus my TLM 103 where it's not as critical because, but yeah, I couldn't take my TLM 103 to a hotel easily and make it sound as good as I do here in this studio.   Gillian (15:30.725) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (15:35.038) It picks up everything.   Gillian (15:39.614) Yeah, and something interesting about polar patterns when I first learned about them, and you can look it up. There's diagrams that show you basically the shape.   of what they look like. I was always thinking, oh, like the pickup pattern, I need to be thinking about what it's picking up. But another big thing about it is thinking about the rejection. Like if it's picking up in a certain way, it's actually rejecting audio from other spaces, which makes everything you're talking about completely true. It's going to reject a lot of the stuff that you don't want in your recordings, which could be a really helpful choice when picking a mic. Like what's your environment like? If you have a noisy studio or if you have a less than ideal situation, then maybe a   Anne Ganguzza (15:57.927) Mmm.   Anne Ganguzza (16:11.743) Sure.   Gillian (16:16.88) condenser TLM 103 is going to pick up too much unwanted noise. So there's a lot of things that go into making the decision and just things to think about to help you find the best mic for your voice and your situation, I think.   Anne Ganguzza (16:21.467) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (16:31.935) What would be your recommendations for people starting out? I mean, is there a particular mic that you think would be great, or is there a particular, I guess, methodology in terms of picking out a good mic for your voice? Like, what would you recommend? I mean, there's so many people that post on the forums, and they're like, what should I buy? Like, how do you attack that in terms of selecting a mic for your voice?   Gillian (16:51.63) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (16:57.326) Um, well, I think my situation is different than most because I work at a bunch of recording studios so I, um...   When I was picking my favorite mics for my voice, I did what is called a shootout, where you just line up a whole bunch of mics and you record yourself on all of them and then you see which one sounds the best to you. I know you have a bunch of recommendations on your site and on my site I do as well, but I guess without getting into specific, like you should get this mic, you should get that mic. There are a few places I actually, this past weekend I went into New York City, if anyone   Anne Ganguzza (17:12.295) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (17:22.975) Mm-hmm. I do.   Gillian (17:36.016) area, B&H, photo, video, whatever, that technology store has a room and you can go in and there's a technician that sits with you and you can try out all of the microphones. So really like my advice would be to have a chance. I know at music stores too you also have that. If you go to like Sam Ash or Guitar Center, you can totally go and try a few microphones before you buy them and all the ones that we're talking about, the 416, the TLM 103,   Anne Ganguzza (17:39.076) Oh yeah.   Anne Ganguzza (17:47.843) Oh, that's wonderful.   Anne Ganguzza (17:53.986) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (18:03.414) the SM7B, those are all there, because those are very popular microphones. So if you have a chance to try them, great. If you have a friend that has one that you could try it. But also, if you can't do a shootout in person, there's a lot of resources on YouTube of people.   Anne Ganguzza (18:05.907) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (18:12.616) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (18:18.626) testing out different microphones. Sweetwater is one of my favorite resources. They give you so much information and they do recorded mic shootouts so you can hear what they sound like on a voice or on the same voice and maybe just determine what you think sounds good for yourself. And then also be aware of your price range. Sorry, I'm just giving like a bullet point list of advice and maybe look into a company like Warm Audio that has a remake of the U87   Anne Ganguzza (18:22.431) Mm-hmm. Water is one of my favorite resources. Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (18:42.64) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (18:48.64) for most people's voices but is cheaper than a real U87 to get a similar sound without paying the full price. That'd be my advice to do a combo of all those things.   Anne Ganguzza (18:53.053) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (18:59.116) And also I know that certain companies like Sweetwater, you can buy and they have a great return policy. So it's kind of like try before you buy or, you know, and I think it's just wise for anyone who's trying out a mic. I mean, don't, I wouldn't go on blanket advice from anyone really. I think you still have to, you have to get that mic and it has to be in your environment. I remember   Gillian (19:04.246) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (19:15.92) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (19:23.847) Gosh, a long time ago I went into a studio and I loved the way I sounded on this particular mic and I went and I bought it immediately. And when I put it in my studio, it did not sound the same. And of course that makes a lot of sense because the studio I was in versus the studio that I had at home were completely different. I mean, number one, the studio I was in was a huge studio, had different acoustics than what I had in my room and I just didn't like it as much and I ended up returning it.   Gillian (19:47.182) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (19:52.871) And so I feel like, yes, I have lots of recommendations of like, here, I think this would sound good. But I think you should always try first and put it in your environment and see if you like it. And then always have that option to return it.   Gillian (19:59.426) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (20:09.842) Yeah, I think that's a great point. And Sweetwater too, they have representatives that you can talk to and get on with them and be like, this is my situation. This is my pre-empt that I have. This is what I'm using my mic for. This is what my... and they can give you recommendations as well. And I don't... I've never returned with them, but I do know they have a good return policy. And also, I mean, we've said this in previous episodes, like people...   Anne Ganguzza (20:19.827) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (20:32.066) glamorize the microphone, but really, first off, no one ever asks you what microphone you're using. And as an audio engineer, I don't care what microphone you're using, as long as you sound good. If you sound good, I don't care, I'm happy. And there's so many other things within the chain that we've talked about, the computer, the preamp, all of those things that contribute to how high or low quality your final sound is.   Anne Ganguzza (20:34.879) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (20:39.647) Hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (20:55.139) Mm-hmm. I do know that there are some studios or some clients that do request a particular mic, but I have a feeling it's if you're trying. Yeah.   Gillian (21:04.215) Really?   Anne Ganguzza (21:08.687) I think what they're trying to do is they're either matching or trying to match like a sound from the mic from before, but it's very rare. It's not, I don't think it's typical. As a matter of fact, in most of the work that I do, nobody ever said to me, you need to have this type of microphone. It's in very rare instances where they say, and maybe in promo or something like that, you need to have a 416 or... But I also feel like...   Gillian (21:13.029) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (21:18.143) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (21:26.743) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (21:34.239) Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza (21:37.743) I could be just saying that. I know I've read that, that it's very infrequent, but it does happen. But for the most part, I've never been requested to have a particular type of mic. As a matter of fact, nobody's ever asked. And so I've just only heard if my mic, or if I didn't sound good, and that had a lot of different factors to it. Wasn't just the microphone that was at play there.   Gillian (21:51.212) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (22:00.366) Mm-hmm. Yeah. I agree. Facts.   Anne Ganguzza (22:06.455) So any other good tips that you have in terms of, I guess, purchasing a mic or for a person just starting out? I mean, in terms of price point, do you think, like, I mean, if a microphone costs $79, do you, you know, is that something that you think is a good price point to start with or is it, you know, what are your thoughts?   Gillian (22:30.618) Yeah, I guess that's a good question. I never think about it like that, but I think um   Obviously if you can avoid a USB microphone, I would just because I think we might have talked about this previously or I just talk about All the time basically with a USB microphone. You're paying the price which is usually lower than most for all of the you know a to D conversion Your microphone your preamp all of that in one and then the power source is Coming fully just from like that USB a so everything within that mic is usually lower quality   Anne Ganguzza (22:43.067) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (23:04.275) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (23:07.888) afford to have a preamp and mic even if they're not very expensive. And in my head, not very expensive is like $200. I would say like $200 microphone, $150 microphone, even some that are like $100 and then preamps same sit at like $100, $115, $200. Then that's what I consider inexpensive. And then anything in like the $250 range is like mid.   Anne Ganguzza (23:17.467) Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza (23:22.925) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (23:28.818) Yeah.   Gillian (23:37.948) like 300, 400, 500, I would say that's like higher than all of the like super pro super expensive stuff is usually closer to a thousand dollars. So that's what in my brain what the range is.   Anne Ganguzza (23:40.871) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (23:45.81) Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza (23:50.791) Well, I know that when I'm recommending to a student, and I have a studio gear page, and I know you do too, and it really depends on their budget, number one. I think if they aren't sure that this is a career for them or   Gillian (23:59.81) Mm-hmm.   Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (24:08.499) They may not get into it more than a few hours a week, or they're just not sure about it. I say don't invest a ton of money right away. I mean, you can get some really reasonable equipment. And I'm not talking USB. I would never recommend a USB as a mic for you to use for creating audio for your client. It's good for webinars. It's good for maybe some quick.   Gillian (24:17.966) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (24:24.366) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (24:31.979) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (24:36.174) here.   Anne Ganguzza (24:37.603) Auditions, even then I say, oh, try not to because you want to put your best foot forward. So, I mean, but there's some really inexpensive mics that I think sound great as long as you've got a good environment. And audio interfaces, like I would recommend, the AT2020 mic I think is a great mic. The Rode NT1 mic is great. It's not more than a few hundred dollars. And audio interface, we've talked about this before. I love the Steinberg.   Gillian (24:44.93) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (24:56.412) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (25:04.392) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (25:05.351) and I think the Steinberg is a great interface and it's $169. So you're not talking about a large investment and it's something that you can probably resell easily if you decide you don't wanna get into the voiceover. Yeah, absolutely.   Gillian (25:09.667) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (25:15.718) And reuse. I mean, everybody is online now. Zoom meetings, it's just.   so much better to have some sort of microphone. And I have, there's one USB mic that I've heard that is actually like, I've been like, oh, what mic is that? Thinking it was, you know, an interface and it was just like a gaming mic, but that was like a $200 USB microphone. So even like, when I was talking about USB microphones, I'm talking about like the $50 ones, the $20 ones that you see on Amazon that it's like, oh, just get this and you'll have a microphone. That's not   Anne Ganguzza (25:23.321) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (25:33.299) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (25:36.883) Mm-hmm. Yeah.   Anne Ganguzza (25:45.631) Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (25:49.905) Yeah.   Gillian (25:51.724) enough quality for professional voiceover, I don't think.   Anne Ganguzza (25:56.111) Agreed, agreed. And I think, you know, going along with, if somebody doesn't have a huge budget and they're just getting into the voiceover industry, I think you have to pay equal attention to your microphone as well as the space that you are recording in because you want that sound, right, that potential audition or that sound to be decent.   Gillian (26:13.486) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (26:21.291) Mm-hmm.   Anne Ganguzza (26:21.979) You know, and to really, again, first impressions are everything. And so I think it's a combination of, you know, a decent mic with a place that's not gonna be, you know, having a ton of echo or, you know, I mean, that's probably the first thing that we do as casting directors is when we get an audition is throw away somebody that has poor quality audio. And the mic is a part of it, you know, the mic is a part of it, so.   Gillian (26:27.722) Mm-hmm.   Gillian (26:45.571) I agree, 100%.   Anne Ganguzza (26:51.131) Absolutely. Well, we could probably talk all day about microphones, but I think this is a great primer on microphones for those bosses that are just starting out. I mean, absolutely. I think, you know, Gillian, I'm sure if you had any other recommendations, can people go to your Studio Gear page? I know VIA Boss has Studio Gear as well. Mm hmm. For for recommendations.   Gillian (26:58.315) Yeah.   Gillian (27:14.558) Yeah, yeah, it's gear recommendations. So you can check it out. And I will say outside of.   gear issues and mic issues. My next biggest gripe, which we can do an episode on with voiceover audio that I am like, I wish this was different, is over or incorrect processing. So that's really that starts to be almost worse. So we will leave it there. But just so you know what's in the near future for you guys, I know we're going to have much, much more to talk about.   Anne Ganguzza (27:36.424) Ah yes, agreed.   Anne Ganguzza (27:47.145) Well, thank you so much. Yes. Thank you so much, Gillian, for those words of wisdom. Absolutely. Bosses, take a moment and imagine a world full of passionate, empowered, diverse individuals giving collectively and intentionally to create the world they want to see. You can make a difference. Visit 100VoicesWhoCare.org to learn more.   Gillian (27:49.467) Oh, thank you for having me.   Anne Ganguzza (28:10.111) And I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can network and connect like bosses. Find out more at IPDTL.com. You guys have an amazing week and we will see you next week. Thank you. Bye.

In this episode, Anne & Lau share their experiences from a recent conference + discuss how to harness the momentum that comes from events, classes, and workshops. As voiceover artists working in home studios, staying connected and motivated is crucial. Discover how meaningful conversations and collaborations can propel your business forward. But it's not just about business…delve into building relationships beyond work and find support through mentors, coaches, and networks. Whether you're a seasoned pro or new to voiceover, tune in to ride the wave of momentum and elevate your success.   Transcript   Anne: All right. Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS Superpower series. I'm feeling super powerful today, by the way. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with my VO BOSS co-host, Lau Lapides!   Lau: Hey everyone, good morning or good afternoon, wherever you are. (laughs)   Anne: Lau, I'm feeling powerful. Definitely business superpowers. And you know why?   Lau: So many reasons, but tell me.   Anne: Well, I am still riding the high of the last conference that we were both at, where I'm so excited that we met each other for the very first time in person, which was so, so wonderful. And I'll tell you, people ask me, so how was the conference? What was your biggest takeaway? Was it great? And I'm like, you know, I think the very best thing about this conference was the energy. The energy that I have received and gotten and been motivated by and inspired by. And I feel like it's time to take action, to move forward and grow, and really just run full speed ahead with my business. And I think we should talk about taking action.   Lau: Oh, I love that. I'm going to second that. I felt like I got out of there and I was like Rosie the Riveter. You know, I just felt like I wanted to jump on things. I wanted to follow up. I wanted to stay in touch, keep the momentum going. There was an energy and momentum in an event like this that's hard to craft and create completely on your own. Just that group synergy, that team love, that family feel, right? And you and I meeting, oh my!   Anne: I know!   Lau: Wonder Twin powers activate.   Anne: I know. I feel like we've known each other forever though. It was like, oh, there's Lau, but it was like, oh my God, it was in person. It was so, so wonderful. And I think there's that extra special juice that you get when you are in person with people that can really help to motivate you. And I know it is so hard for voice talent, as we are so isolated in our booths and working from home a lot of the time by ourselves. And now that we're just starting to get back out into the world, I feel, a little more carefully, but we're getting out there, which is just wonderful. I think even I didn't realize how much I missed, you know, that energy. And I, you know, gosh, I used to have events all the time at my home and people are like, are you going to bring them back? Are you going to bring them back? And I'm like, oh gosh, you know, thinking about putting on events, it's a lot of work. But I'll tell you what, you get so much out of it.   Lau: Oh, the energy is infectious too. It's like you can't be sad. Even if you're shy or introverted — I had a few clients say, oh, I didn't make it, I'd like to go next year, but I'm a little, I'm not great with crowds, I'm not a very social person. I said, that's okay, because guess what? There was a room for everyone. There was a space for everyone. And you could be in an X session with 12 people. You could be in a speaking room with 40 people. You could be in a private meeting with someone in the lounge. So in my mind, whether you're an extroverted introvert or an introverted extrovert, you could come and enjoy and maybe not sit in a ballroom of 700 if that makes you feel uncomfortable, right?   Anne: Absolutely. And then just the people that you've always wanted to meet, that you've been working with them online, maybe they're in your accountability group, maybe you've been posting and exchanging messages back and forth. And when you finally meet, you can just go to a private area and just motivate, inspire, and all the good stuff. And I really came away thinking, wow, that was, even more than Anne Ganguzza — who I've been to conferences over and over and over again, and it just has been so long. It was just so refreshing. And so I think it would be good to talk about, what do we do now? What do we do now with all of that good energy? And how do we take action to really move ahead and move forward? Because I think this is the time to do it.   Lau: Right? And there's a, to me, it's like surfing a wave. I'm not a surfer, but I can visualize what a surfer is doing. And there's a wave coming. As it's coming, you're preparing for it. And then you start riding it, which is our conference event. We're riding that wave. But then it starts to come in and starts to crash, right? And then it kind of turns into a minimal, almost nothing anymore wave. So you have to ride the wave as long as you can while people's energy is up and excited. I actually had people, I'm sure you did too, Anne, that said to me, Lau, I want to reconnect before my momentum goes or before my energy leaves me. So there is that magical moment that you want to capture your clients and your colleagues in. You don't want to miss that window of time.   Anne: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I think, and this, I want to just not make it so much, well, of course, we just came back from an in-person event, but also I want to talk about when you have even an online class or an online workshop or an online meeting, something that inspires and motivates you. I mean, we've been getting together week after week after week recording this podcast, and you inspire me, you motivate me. And I think the energy of each other, right? We really pump each other up. And I think that's the time when we're taking notes, we're brainstorming ideas. That's when we can really help each other to grow in our businesses and really feel fulfilled. It is such a tough thing to work on your own and not have that energy.    So I would say that even if you have a really great workout class -- you know, I do the VO Peeps online, because it's hard for me to do them now, of course, in person. And it allows people from all around the world to join. And I'll tell you what, there's energy that can be received from those sessions as well. And so I think that if you are taking notes and you're jotting things down and you have goals, I think this is now the time to make sure that you've written them down and read them again and then start a plan for achieving those goals, right?   Lau: Absolutely. And no way am I saying you have to be in person in order to get that kind of energy and juice from your people. You can be online, you could be at your accountability group, you could be in a coaching session, you could be in a rehearsal session with a buddy. But the point is as creatives, we are oftentimes better at creating and motivating and keeping our momentum alive when we are with others that are like-minded.   Anne: Yes.   Lau: And I always say, you know what my precious dad taught me in business, one of his business principles was, surround yourself in the room with people who are so much better than you. You should not be the smartest person in the room. Be the dullest person in the room. That way, you can challenge yourself, you can learn things, you can share growth, and you don't have to feel like you're spinning your wheels. None of us want to feel like we're getting lazy or we're not engaged or we're spinning our wheels. That's why I love these conferences, because I feel like it's for every level. Someone coming in early entry, someone who's super advanced, who's been doing it for 15 years, they all belong. They all can find their peeps in there and they can learn and grow from them.   Anne: One other thing that I got from this too is that in-person energy. And of course, if you can, I always say, if you can have in-person meetups, I think they're absolutely worthwhile. There's something to be said about -- there's people that I hadn't seen in so long, and the past few years has been tough on social media. And I am the first to say it has been tough. I am all over social media because I’m selling events to people on social media and organizing audition demolitions and things like that. And so I am a lot, I am very much into social media.    I have been, in terms of engaging in social media, I've stepped back just a little bit outside of here's my event and I hope you guys can come and posting what I hope to be inspiring and motivational messages. But I have noticed that if I'm reading social media a lot, there's certain times that it becomes not inspirational or motivational and a little bit toxic, or what I perceive to be a little bit self-serving. Okay? But yet when I was in the room with maybe the same person or people that I have thought, well, maybe they're self-serving or what is that post all about? You really get to feel like, you know what? I get it now, I see. What might've seemed self-serving to me then became, oh, well, they're really feeling good about themselves. And it really just softened and gentler and more, I'm going to say, emotional, heart to heart. I had many, many times during this conference when I was like close to tears, just by being motivated and inspired by people.   Lau: Yeah, and I think we've got those cues that we don't often get, sometimes we even miss on Zoom, like the nonverbals, the energy, even just like the scent of someone. It sounds weird, but you've got the scent, the pheromones, the olfactory, which gives you memories. When you've got someone's energy right next to you, and they're looking into your eyes, and they're shaking their head and they're drinking coffee with you, there's a sensibility about that, that just as human beings, we need to have in our life to support all of our online work. It can't just be online.    We have to also have that real intimate time with a real social distance, you know, so that we get that sense that -- I don't know if it's a group, a team, a village. I don't know what to call it, but it's, I'm in humanity. I'm part of humanity and I’m part of my industry’s humanity. I’m part of something that’s larger than myself. It's almost like it's almost like the military. My son's in the military, and it's like, why do you want to do that? Oh, because you're a part of something that is much larger than you are, that has a common goal in mind. And that's what our industry is, where all of a sudden we remember we're part of a much larger mosaic of people and creatives that that give us more meaning as to why every day we do what we do.   Anne: Yeah. And I don't know if you were there and you heard the Team Challenge project at the very end. It was people coming together to create a commercial for, I think it was the local ASPCA or a local animal shelter. Yeah. And just people coming together and doing amazing things. And I think that when we come together, we can do amazing things.   So when we are talking about taking action, BOSSes, I would say, you know, do what you can to get yourselves an accountability group or a group of peers that you are meeting with, and make it a point to meet with them, you know, once a week, once a month, whatever that is, just to maybe go over what are some goals, what are some issues you're trying to work out. And as I've always said, I like to write things down because when I write them down, it then cements it in my memory. It gives me something that I can go back and look at and something that I can say, all right, keep on top of so that I can do what I need to do to achieve that goal. So for me, it would be get yourself a group of peers that can be accountability buddies, or even just having coffee once a week and just discussing the industry. Having a podcast together. I feel like, right?    Lau: Who knows? Who knows?   Anne: You know, really anything like that and write it down, write down actions that you want to take and goals that you have. Lau, you've got any other tips that can help you to really take action on this energy that we're getting?   Lau: Absolutely, don't limit yourself when you do find your people or your different groups of people that you're going to frequent and be a part of. Don't limit yourself to only professional talk and only business talk. I tend to fall into this problem myself, just because I love my business, I'm really passionate, I always want to talk about it. But when you're together, make sure you, you know, observe moments of each other's lives. What is the family doing? Or, wow, that outfit.    Anne and I, before we get on air, we’re talking about our makeup and our outfits and our jewelry and our hair and our because that's part of who we are as people. You know it's part of our fun. It's part of our fun time. So don't forget the fun, and part of the fun is talking about something or doing about something that's not business related. It may be, you know, maybe you guys go out bowling together or maybe you guys talk about animals together or whatever because that really helps bond and cement your relationships through things that matter to you alongside your business, but not only your business, right?   Anne: Yeah. And a lot of times, you know, when it comes to networking with people, that's really where the hook is. You know, not so much the business part of it, but when you are connecting with other people, are those personal things, those things that you have in common. I had a student who, you know, who brought me a gift of a stuffed kitty. Oh, my God, the cutest thing, because who doesn't know that I love cats? And some other wonderful person that brought me an amazing pair of red boots and a wonderful piece of jewelry that says VO BOSS in case you guys haven't noticed, with my birthstone. My very favorite, Lau, thank you so much for that. But knowing that, right? And so now I've got something here that I can wear that can inspire me.    And I'm not saying you have to get everybody something to wear, but that personal touch, you can carry it with you. And also, I'm gonna say, because, again, our businesses are so personal, it's our voice, it's our personality that we're bringing to a read that story-tells, brings things to life, that the better you know a person, even outside of their technical prowess of being able to voice something effectively --    I know for me, when I help brand people, or I help select, what would be a great piece of copy for this person? And I know what they're passionate about. I know what their likes and their dislikes are. But I will tell you, it's always a great way to meet someone, right, when you're not initially attacking them with, you know, oh, I'm a voice artist. Can you hire me? In reality, what can I do for you rather than, you know, hire me, hire me, hire me? So I think, you know, always meeting people and approaching these groups with, what can I do to help you, is, I think, a wonderful way to approach that. And I think that's going to help you be more motivated and more inspired. I know for me, helping others inspires and motivates me. Just to want to do better and do more.   Lau: I would even add in, come up with an idea every now and then. It doesn't have to be a major breakthrough that you're sharing with everyone. It's just like a little mini idea. Like, for instance, you're a branding goddess, so you might have a quick little tip on branding that you're going to bring to your group, you're going to bring to your team, you're going to even bring to a conference where you're speaking on and say, let me lay this one on you, you guys. No one would think about this as a branding tool that also develops your rapport and deepens your relationship.   That’s part of your expertise that you can give to people. That may be non-tangible, you're not spending money on it, it's just coming from your creative mind, that it's a gift that keeps on giving, literally, because someone could run with that ball and say, wow, Anne taught me this, Lau taught me this, now I'm using it in my business, now I'm doing whatever. That's where we want to go. We want to give value, give education, and give ideas at times too. Not your most precious ideas of your business. I'm not inferring you should give all that away. I’m just saying there’s always these tips of value that we’re looking to do, whether we're doing a podcast or we're doing a blog or we're doing whatever, right? That's what we're looking to do. And that in itself helps people bond to you because they see it's coming from an honest place.   Anne: Yeah, yeah, I think really that's key, is honesty and authenticity. And also it doesn't always have to be about voiceover, guys. Your support and motivation and inspiration can work into every aspect of your group's lives or the person that you're trying to help and move forward. You know, this is such a crazy industry and it's so volatile sometimes, and when you’re first starting out, and it's hard to get your wheels spinning and see success. I think that's where a lot of times motivation and inspiration is very helpful. I know I've got some students that I mentor that sometimes it doesn't, it's not about voiceover. It's about how am I going to be able to continue to pursue what I love and start to see success while being able to pay the bills, right? So there has to be something practical there.   And so a lot of times, you know, my advice may or may not be like, okay, pursue voiceover, pursue voiceover. Be like, look, we need a parallel path. And so you can do this because you've got these skills. And so why not think about a side hustle in this or think about this, or I know it's hard, don't worry — you know, that kind of thing. A lot of times when talent will get frustrated and say, I'm just not seeing any success, you know, I don't know what else to do, and they're at their lowest point. I mean, here's where an accountability group, you know, can really help to inspire and motivate or a good coach.   Lau: And maybe you even need to dig deeper and have a support group. Accountability groups do offer support by nature, but maybe you need something even deeper and more emotionally or psychologically driven. Like you gotta find out what you need to be happy, balanced, and successful. And that has been a theme that's been running throughout our week post this event, Anne, is like, I loved this particular event because it validated my thoughts that I don't have to listen to everyone or listen to noise to be successful. I can also listen to myself and my own voice. And so get that coach, get that support group, get that friend in place that reminds you — we always need those reminders — you're good enough. You're working hard on what you do. You're doing the due diligence. And you're on a track that suits you, like just keeping you on track, right?   Anne: Absolutely, absolutely. And I think, I mean, we're our own worst enemies, aren't we? I mean, and even people such as myself, and Lau, I'm sure you would agree that even though we've been in the business, sometimes we even have our, we need our people too. We have our questions about, you know, and we need that guide. I need guidance every once in a while saying, Anne, so you're on the right path, it's okay. It’s going to be fine, don't worry about it, and that will help to reel me in.    But I think the whole writing the energy, taking action, writing notes, right, setting goals, and continually revisiting that and revisiting your people, whether it be online, whether it be in person, or a combination of both. I mean, I think both is amazing. And, you know, it's always like, people talk about that discussion about, online learning, do you like online learning or in person, which is more effective, right? And I think honestly, if you can have a combination of both, right? Because obviously I voice a lot for some online learning places. And so, but I've always been a fan of in person communication and in person growth and working and classes and sessions that are in person because you get a whole lot out of that. Yeah.   Lau: I got one more for the road. Here's my last goody for the road. My last goody is -- and this is my specialty, I always think of myself as an idea person. I always say I missed my calling, Anne. I should have worked for some advertising agency -- before you step in with your group, whether it's a conference or an accountability group, before you step in, have two or three ideas ready to go of how you can work with people. I naturally do that because that’s what energizes me. So before, for instance, before I podcast with Anne in the morning, I sit with my coffee and my smooth bossa nova jazz music. And I come up with not just helpful themes for the podcast itself, but how can Anne and I work together? How can we better each other's and grow each other's businesses? How can we energize and stir the pot of what we're doing? So I can come in and say, I’m excited. I have an idea. I have an idea. People love that, Anne.   And I don’t see that as much. I don't know if you do, but when I get together with people, they're working on their stuff, which is great. But very rarely do I say, I have an idea. Let's do this together. Let's make this happen. Let's form a group. Only a very small minority of people think in that way. You think in that way. I think in that way. I want the listeners to start thinking in that way. Create.   Anne: Yes. I love that you brought that up because I cannot tell you the amount of, the benefits that I have derived from working with other people and teaming up, teaming together with people on multiple things.   Lau: Invaluable.   Anne: Invaluable, teaming up.    Lau: Invaluable, and it spirals too.    Anne: Yeah, it does.   Lau: It's like my hair in the heat. It just keeps going up and up and up. It just spirals out of control.    Anne: Yeah, partnering.   Lau: It's like, it's that rabbit hole where you just go down and down and down and down, and you just keep coming up with more thoughts, more ideas. And that doesn't mean that they're all gonna pan out or they're all gonna be successful. It means you keep the cobwebs out of your brain and you keep your motors going so that as a business owner, someone could come to you and say, hey, I need ideas for this. You say, I don't know, and I'm not sure. Let me think about it. And they're like, no, I got ideas for you. Here we go, here's the first one. Here's the second one, here's the third one.   Anne: Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Think of how you can team up with someone to do something amazing. I really think that that can help to also, as you go along with your own independent business of voiceover, you can be contributing greatly to, let's say, becoming a resource for the community or a community. It doesn't have to be the voiceover community, But gosh, there's so much talent out there in our industry. I mean, we could do just about anything. You know, it doesn't have to be contained for voiceover.    Think of people that you know and have gotten to know and that would be great at doing a lot of different things. I mean, probably every one of the people that I work with that's on my team, I have come to them because they've had a special skill that I don't have that I need and that I want and that I'm happy to pay them for because they help me to grow my business. And, you know, it could be a skill that isn't voiceover, right, but skill that could be video editing, audio, whatever it is, it doesn't have to be voiceover specific. Even team leading or groups that they're a part of that we can be like a referral network for each other. So it's really incredible the things that you can do when you team up and you ride on that energy and they can help you take action in your business.    So I ask all of you BOSSes to really just consider, consider partnering up with someone, getting your peeps together in a motivational, you know, accountability group and working together and writing things down and really taking action, taking action on the high and the motivation that you've gotten from in-person networking or online networking, whatever that is.   Lau: Yes, and finally, know the difference between the people that you can grow with, that are growth people and people that are not in that sphere. It doesn't mean they're not creative or they're not energized. It means they're in their own little private Idaho. They're good with what they're doing. They're not as interested in helping you or them grow specifically. They're happy with where they're at. Just kind of know the difference. Don't have the same expectations of every person. That was something a financial adviser I heard say and that kind of rocked my world. They said know who your growth people are, and she was specifically talking to the team that you're growing. Like some people are great for now but they're not going to help you grow. Other people are going to come in and they're growth people know the difference.   Anne: Growth people, if they're part of your team, by the way, you have to, you have to, you have to motivate your growth people appropriately, okay? As Gary Vaynerchuk says, you know, no one's gonna be as excited about your business as you. However, when there is motivation and there's inspiration and there's -- like I say, you always have to be like, what can I do to help you, right? When there's something in it for them as well, right? And it's obvious that you're not just about, oh, you're my employee, let me pay you. ‘Cause I don't have a lot of money, let me not, let me pay you the cheapest amount that I possibly can. My, you know, my team members, I mean, I pay them.    Because I think of myself, like, how is it that they're gonna promote me, right, in my business, when I'm not paying them what they're worth, or if I don't think they're worthy enough to pay a decent salary? And that's part of the motivation, that as well as, you know, constantly encouraging, referring, doing what I can to help them move their own careers forward. And sometimes that means letting them go too. Do you know what I mean? Because they've outgrown me. And that's okay. I mean, I love that actually.   Lau: Yeah, and you need to be their cheerleader, but they also need to be your cheerleader. So you want to train cheerleaders, in essence, to be growing one another. And if the growth is stopping and everything's dying or stagnant or going the wrong way, then you may not need to be together anymore. You still stay connected and be a great associate and always leave things on a really great note. So you could come to back together if you want to come back together. But know who your growth people are.    Anne: I love that. Know, if you take away anything guys, know who your growth people are and really take action on that inspiration, motivation that you get from your growth people, absolutely. Lau, thank you so much.   Lau: My pleasure, as always.   Anne: Yeah, so wonderful as always to chat with you about all these wonderful topics for BOSSes. And BOSSes, I am going to say that as individuals, as we were just talking about, it can seem difficult to make a big impact. But I tell you what, as a group, as we just saw, as we've been talking about all podcast, we can contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never even thought possible. Visit 100VoicesWhoCare.org to learn how and learn more. So big shout out to our sponsor, ipDTL. I love ipDTL. You guys can also love ipDTL and be BOSSes. Find out more at ipDTL.com. All right, guys. Have a great week. We'll see you next week. Bye.   Lau: Bye!

Are you ready to revolutionize your business policies and guidelines? In this episode, Anne and Lau dive deep into the importance of setting firm and consistent terms of service. They explore the world of contracts and documentation, discussing the significance of having clear terms and conditions, backing up legal documents both online and offline, and the role of cultural differences in client interactions. Anne & Lau are here to help you navigate the murky waters of friendships and business, emphasizing the importance of professionalism and drawing clear boundaries between work and pleasure. They discuss setting expectations with employees and clients, and how to balance paid work with volunteering or pro bono projects. Don't miss out on these crucial insights that will set your business on a path to success!   Transcript   It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS superpower series with my wonderful, lovely host Lau Lapides.    Lau: Hey everyone. Woo!   Anne: Happy weekend, Lau.    Lau: Happy Saturday.    Anne: Yeah.   Lau: Love that.    Anne: So, oh, BOSSes, our secret is out. Now, they know that we record on Saturdays because honestly, it's about the only time I have. to really record. But yeah, it's always wonderful to see you on a Saturday morning, Lau.   Lau: And now they know for sure we're absolute workaholics.    Anne: (laughs) For sure. That's a six day a week, almost seven.   Lau: Can't deny it.    Anne: Almost seven days a week. BOSS work. Anyways. Oh my goodness. Speaking of having to be a BOSS, Lau, this week was trying for me. As you know, I have multiple, and I always like to call them tendrils -- I don't know why I call them tendrils of my business. I'm sure there's a much more professional name for them. But the components, the other divisions, the other brands in my business, my VO Peeps, this VO BOSS podcast, my Anne Ganguzza Voice Productions. Well, I constantly have clients who try to, how shall I say, not adhere to the terms of service or the guidelines or policies that I have in place.    And I will tell you that even though I've been doing this for so long, and I've created the policies much because I've been doing this for so long, and I've run into every single -- I'm so sorry, I couldn't make it to my session today because… or I'm sorry, can I get that discount? I forgot to sign up under my membership ID. I'm sorry, can I just get a refund? No guys.(laughs), I'm gonna say, I have terms of service built into everything and guidelines or policies for a reason. And I think it would be a great time to talk about that, Lau, because as business owners, we need to really set forth policies so that we can run a business. I mean, it is expected that you run businesses so that you can make a profit, not lose your money.(laughs).    Lau: And I really do think that ignorance is bliss sometimes. Meaning we can all live in a blissful place. I forget what they call it. There's a legal term for that. But because I don't have the knowledge and I don't know what it is, I can't be held to that. I don't know if plausible deniability is that, but anyway, we'll have to look that one up. We'll have to ask our attorney friends on that. Plausible deniability.   Anne: Thank you for that big word of the day. Plausible deniability.    Lau: But that's a biggie.    Anne: Yeah.   Lau: That's a biggie. Like, please excuse me, I didn't know.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Or please excuse me. I didn't see it. I didn't read it, I didn't catch it. And I think there's that huge gray zone in there that business owners have to really take a step back and say, okay, now we don't know if it's true or not. Literally we don't know if they know it or they don't know it. We only know what they're communicating to us.    Anne: Right, right.    Lau: That we have to make these judgment calls all the time. based on the knowledge of that client. Is this someone I know? Is this someone I don't know? You know, we kind of have to be judges in a courtroom.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Now that I think about it.   Anne: We do.    Lau: Right?    Anne: And I need to stop beating myself up trying to figure out a polite way. Well, how should I put it? Because whenever I get that request, and I'm like, I could not have listed it in more places in my website. I could not have spelled it out or sent you email reminders enough. And I think what it is, I feel assaulted, or I feel hurt that maybe they're not paying attention, or they're not listening, or they're trying to take advantage. And I'm going to say, in terms of policies and guidelines, every time you sign up for a mailing list, or every time you have a client that you sign a contract with, do you not read that contract?    I mean, if all of a sudden your voice is being used in perpetuity, and you didn't know it because you didn't read the contract well, I don't think that the company's gonna come back and say, well, I'm sorry. Oh, let me take that off. No, I think that we have to be BOSSes and be able to really set those guidelines. So for every client that you create that's a new client, or even old clients, make sure there are contracts and guidelines in place.    Lau: I agree.    Anne: So that you can get paid fairly and compensated for your time.    Lau: Yeah, I agree. And I think that your clients that are running clients that are really credible, because you know them, you have some history with them, you have time, that's a discussion that you can have if you see fit that there is a real excuse, there's a real reason why something is going awry. If it's someone brand new, someone that you're really not familiar with, right, we always, I always jump to the assumption that they either know and they don't care, they didn't take the time to look at the material, or they may intentionally be pulling something. And so I just kind of go through those scenarios super quick in my mind, and then I just land on something, and I go with it. Because I do think the bigger your business gets, and the more complex your business gets, the more problem solving and decision making that you have to make.    And sometimes yes or no answers don't always work based on the relationship you have with the client. So I'm with you all the way. I think that establishing early that you have policies that are there for a reason — I would also give people the reasoning behind the policy as well. So whether you do it in writing, whether you have a disclaimer, whether you have them opt in or sign something, I think it's so important, because you can always rely on that. One thing my dad always taught me is, think of your work as a legal document at all times.    Anne: Yes.    Lau: So if this were in a court of law, how would it be viewed? Do you have something physical in writing? Is it there? And does it say what it needs to say? And so oftentimes that's gonna stand on its own versus a verbal agreement or what you're just saying to someone.    Anne: Yeah, absolutely. And it can hold up in court if it needs to, right? So BOSSes out there, what is it that they need to establish in terms of, what are we going to be sending to our clients or our new clients? I think that some form of written communication, documented is absolutely necessary. An email can serve as a contract, an actual contract can serve as a contract. And very clearly within that document should be the terms of service. What can that client expect from you in return for this deal that you've negotiated or this job that you've negotiated? You can expect to receive audio files in MP3 format within 24 hours or 48 hours or for this attached script.    And I think it needs to be spelled out specifically for first-time clients, even more so. And it's easy to do that, I think, for first time clients to just have everything already in -- I have an email kind of attachment that I send Jodi Krangle, I know she, God, for the longest time, she attaches the terms of service or she's got a terms of service right on her website. And I also have terms of services on my independent websites as well. But she's had hers forever, and it's great. And it's what the client can expect when they hire her for a job. “You can expect my very best work. You can expect that I will be delivering files to you in wav format, blah, blah, blah.” And it just steps it through. And it's a really wonderful way, I think, to cover yourself and your business in case things go awry. And I always say this, like, I probably said this multiple times, but I am so proud in the 16-plus years that I've been working that I have always gotten paid. I'm gonna knock here on --   Lau: See, that's amazing.    Anne: — wood.    Lau: That is amazing. I'm amazed by that. To not get burned once or twice is really a feat.    Anne: Yeah.   Lau: You're doing something right. That's great. I'm glad too you talked about emails, because there was a day when email was too new, it wasn't a valid form yet of a legal document. Now it's absolutely legal documents. So you really gotta keep your folders and make sure you don't delete them by accident. Because like if you're in Gmail and you're doing a string and you delete the string, it deletes the messages in the folder. and then all of a sudden your legal documentation is gone. So I always say keep paperwork.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Do both hard copy online, back it up. have it, have it, have it. What we do is a letter of understanding or a letter of agreement. So they sign that.   Anne: Statement of work.    Lau: It acts like a contract. It just says, hey, give us these amount of business days to turn this around. Here's the format is gonna -- just like what you're saying, all of that is in front of people so that they don't have the guesswork of that.    Anne: Yeah, right.    Lau: And then once in a while, there's a question or two, and sometimes I run and I add it right into the letter of agreement. Because I didn't think of it and it's important. Or it's an update and it's very, very important to have it in there. So it's also important that you are updating your legal documents. And I would look at those every three to six months. Like I would not let that go a year, because in a year, so much happens in our industry that you just have to put in there --    Anne: And follow up on them. I mean, you've signed a contract. Don't let it be the be all, end all. Even if you've worked with your agent and you expect your agent to take care of that. No; follow up on every contract that you signed in. And you know what? People may make fun of me that I never delete an email. But that is one of the reasons, Lau, that I don't delete emails. So I always have a trail of my client relations. And so if I did a job 10 years ago, I can do a search in my Gmail for that client, and I will have that job. I'll have all of the documentation. I'll have everything in a folder, the contract signed, and like you said, I back up my backups. And that allows me to always have recourse, including audio files as well in case a client comes back to me years later and says, hey, can you update this? Or we need a new something and you've gotta try to match your files from what you've done before.    So I definitely feel that if you're upfront and you are present and you're really with new clients, enforcing that right away, it's not gonna be such an issue as if you've had, let's say, clients who like all of a sudden are kind of maybe slipping a little bit or trying to maybe take advantage. And then it gets to the point where I sit there and I go, oh my gosh, how am I gonna say to them, no, you need to pay me. Why do I always feel so stressed about that? And even after all these years, I mean, I still feel stressed. I'm sorry. No, I cannot give you a refund. You are going to have to pay for that. Yeah.    Lau: Well we talk about this all the time. I mean it's a combination of being women. It's a combination of our generation. It's also a cultural thing. You know? You and I are part of certain ethnic minorities that are very much about caring and giving and pleasing and cooking and doing and providing, which is not a bad thing. It's a wonderful quality to have as a coach and as a business owner. But you can get a little carried away. You have to have a very fine line that be careful, if you go into the friendship zone with clients and there's always that fine line, ‘cause iIf you do that and it feels good to do that. At least to me it does. The paperwork can get a little muddy. The services can get a little muddy for us, the water.   Anne: Excellent advice. Excellent advice.    Lau: You have to be very careful of that, like just keep it straight in your mind. that you've got a structure, you've got a service, you have to be paid for that. And if you're gonna be friendly outside of that, okay, but that doesn't dismiss this. Now you're feeling bad, is that guilt that many of us have for not providing or making someone uneasy or whatever, not coming through in the way we thought they wanted us to? We have to separate that. Like we have to objectify It just --   Anne: I have stop. I have to stop. I don't know why I go through it all the time.    Lau: You have to not do that. We have to not do, we can't emotionalize transactions because when we emotionalize transactions, we give it more worth than it's worth. It's a monetary transaction for a service. It shouldn't be an emotional heart wrenching thing.   Anne: This is not personal, it's business. And I like that you said watch out when it becomes friendship, 'cause a lot of times if you have a relationship with a client, especially for a long period of time — and I've had clients for years. And I've had students for years too. And sometimes when that gets closer to more of a friend level, then it's kinda like, oh, come on. Can you let that slide? And my recourse is, and I think any BOSS can say this, my recourse is, hey, it's nothing personal. It's a business. I need to run my business. And if there are feelings that get hurt, I mean honestly, so be it. Because right now I have to look out for my business. It's just the way that it is.    Lau: I also think too, the timing of that is really important. So I was notorious for the first half of my business — because I was an actor for many years turned into everything, director, producer, coach. When you're an actor, you're never trained in the protocol of the difference between your creative life, your business life, and your personal life. Everything is just --   Anne: Jumbled together.   Lau: — in there together, in there. Jumble, jumbled. So a lot of our relationships, a lot of my closest friends are my people. They're my coaches, they're people I work with, which I love. I love it. But it causes a problem in that the clear lines of delineation of like, you are offering a service, I'm paying you for service, then it's done. And then we can still be friends, has to be done upfront. Like you have to set the stage and set the standards upfront and make sure it's okay. Especially if you have a more personalized relationship with that person.    Anne: Yeah. Yeah.    Lau: Right? Just say, hey, I'm paying you for this hour where you're a guest, whatever. Okay. Is this amount of money good for you? Is it right for you? Yes. It's great. Good. Put it in writing. Done. Done.    Anne: Exactly.    Lau: Let's go back and have our friendship. I think that's the respect that we wanna have. And it's also very difficult tightrope for a lot of people to walk. So when you're in doubt, I would say keep business and pleasure separate, if you can. And with the few people that you're very, very close with and work very closely — like you and I are friends, right?    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: But I mean, if you ask me to do a service, if I ask you to do a service, I wanna be able to pay you for that.    Anne: Yes. Absolutely.    Lau: I wanna be able to respect your time and your knowledge.   Anne: And absolutely. And we've discussed doing projects together, and both of of us respect each other's business enough to say, okay, let's see how we can make this work in a business sense. And then once we're done with that, that's it. We're done. So we respect each other enough to know to come at it as a business. And we both are business owners long enough to know that.    Lau: And that's kind of a gift, isn't it, Anne?    Anne: Yeah, it really is.    Lau: Not a lot of people can do that.   Anne: I'm very appreciative and grateful.    Lau: We're very nuanced in that way to be able to have close friends. Some of my coaches now that work at my studio are 30-year friends.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Like friends and like family. And I'm very careful. I wanna make sure I do the right thing. I wouldn't pay them for their time. I want it to be going great. I don't wanna say, oh, they're friend, they'll take it for nothing. They'll take it for less. They'll -- be careful of that because then you run the risk of corroding the business relationship and the friendship.    Anne: Sure. Yeah. And I was just gonna say, employees, like your coaches and my employees, it's one of those things where, yeah, I mean I've had, gosh, I've had employees for I believe over 10 years now. And so that's a long time to have employees. And so you do get close. And I always have to approach it -- I think Gary Vaynerchuk said it, but it's something that I always kind of figured out. Like no one will ever be more excited about your business than you. Right?    And so when you have employees, like your employees are not gonna be more excited about your business than you. And so therefore, if you have problems with employees, right? Let's say you need to maybe fire an employee or you need to talk to them to say that your work is not up to the standards or the way it used to be — that is always a tough thing to do. But I think you have to do it because again, it is a business. You're paying for a service. And if that service is not being fulfilled, then you have to be able to be BOSS enough to talk about that and not feel like you're jeopardizing a friendship.    Lau: That's right. And you have to delineate very fast the difference between pro bono expected volunteer work, which is set up that way and work, which has monetary compensation. I mean, that's where my husband came in handy years ago because I was an artist who -- I was a director and I was directing for years, like directing for free while I was doing every-- teaching, and at a certain point he said, and luckily he's, he's a CFO, he's an accountant. He said, what are you doing? Don't you see you're giving away value and you're not getting it in return? And I said, I'm getting a lot of return. I love what I do. People appreciate me. I'm getting a lot of accolades. He said, no, no, no, no, no, no. I mean true value, like get paid. You see? Now I can't say that it's the difference between men and women, 'cause I think, you know, a lot of women are great and smart and think that way too. But it just reminded me that, oh, I made it very fluffy. I made it very gray. I made it very nuanced when it wasn't. It was like, I'm doing a job.    Anne: Right.    Lau: There should be an understanding and then you should get paid. Unless it's volunteer. If it's volunteer, then you walk in knowing it's volunteer, you accept it and it's okay. That's fine. Right? But we're building businesses.    Anne: Yeah, absolutely.    Lau: How many times have you thought or said, I don't run a charity?    Anne: Oh, in my head all the time.    Lau: We give to charity a lot. But this isn't a charity.    Anne: Yeah. I'm like, I don't understand people. I just don't understand people. Like what do they expect? Do they not read things that I — do they not read policies on websites? Do they not read emails? Do those clients not understand?    Lau: Yes, yes, and yes. (laughs)    Anne: And I'll just shake my head and just, yeah.    Lau: Oh wait, can I add one more thing to that thought?    Anne: Yes, yes please.    Lau: And this is all the psychological stuff that we talk about. Okay. So whatever happens, happens; you either agree to something you shouldn't have. Someone burned you, didn't pay you, something happened that shouldn't have happened. I say, forgive yourself. Forgive that person and walk away a whole lot smarter. Not to say you shouldn't fight back or if you need to take them to court and it's fine, whatever. I'm saying psychologically, don't do the damage to yourself and rip yourself down and blame yourself and do all -- don't do that because we need to make those mistakes. We need to make those errors so that we can fix it. And we know how to run better and smoother and cleaner. If we didn't do that, we wouldn't really know. We would never really — there's no checks and balances, in other words. Right? So that's a moment of checks and balance. And don't get bitter. Get better.    Anne: Ooh, I love that. Don't get bitter. Get better. I love that. Yes, I do.    Lau: It's easy to get really like cringey and toxic. It feels so good to get like -- don't do it because your whole spirit of your business will go downhill if you start to do that.    Anne: Yeah. I don't know. For me it's just like, don't be putting that toxicity out on the internet. Try not to spread that around. I mean, unless of course you're trying to get action from some company that's clearly done undone you some injustice. But I still say be careful.   Lau: Anne, it reminds me (laughs) — you remember way back when in the dating scene when you'd meet someone and they would just unload everything on you about their last relationship.    Anne: And then I'd be like, okay.    Lau: And be like --   Anne: Bye!    Lau: And be like, I got, I gotta work a little bit. You start to hold it. You carry it, it gets in the molecules of your muscles. And then it starts to show in your business. So we have to be super aware of that.    Anne: So BOSSes, emails, terms of service, make yourself a terms of service. There's lots of examples out there. You can just search for voiceover terms of service or voiceover statement of work or what else too is a great book, and I'm just gonna promote this guy 'cause I love Rob Sciglimpaglia, (Lau laughs) VO Legal. I love him. He's got templates that you can use. He's my lawyer and I'm proud to say that. He has literally been by my side through every contract that I've ever had a question with. So highly, highly recommend him. So make sure when you're working with a new client, you have those terms of service.    On your website, it's a great idea to put a terms of service on your website. You'll notice that most companies do these days, right. And so if you wanna be seen as a professional service or professional business, then get yourself a page that has terms of service. Those are templates that you can get online, and you can have your web person throw one up on there. It's like it can be on the footer of your webpage, terms of service. And it's really simple and you cover yourself in that way. And if you happen to be selling online, if you have, like I have multiple places where I sell online, make sure that those terms of services are there as well.    Lau: You took the words right outta my mouth 'cause I was just about to say, get a really great attorney. Like if you can get an entertainment attorney, even better. But have an attorney on your side, because you can take boiler plates off online, which is fine, but you wanna, you wanna know --   Anne: Sometimes you just don’t know.   Lau: -- melt it. And you wanna make sure the language is accurate to what you do, you know, and not generic. It's gotta really cover exactly what you do. So it's worth an hour or two of sitting with a pro, a couple hundred bucks to say, yeah, you can say this. Yeah, you can't say this. Yeah. This is what this means. I think it's really worth doing that.    Anne: And by the way, VO BOSS has interviewed Rob Sciglimpaglia more than once. Make sure you check out the episodes. I've got links to his book. I've got links to templates. And also with the new up and coming synthetic voice, I'm gonna say that there are companies, I work from the organization called the Open Voice Network. I'm on the synthetic voice study group. The whole focus of this group is to come up with policies and guidelines and standards for the AI community in working with synthetic voices. And so Rob has also been on a committee to help with that. And also I will give a shout-out to NAVA, the National Association of Voice Actors. They've got lots of templates and great stuff on their website. I've also worked with them as well with synthetic voices. And so there's lots of places out there that you can go for help.    But I always say, yes, you cannot beat a lawyer because yeah, if you go get the template and you put it up on your webpage, sometimes that might be something that doesn't apply to your business there. So,it's so worth your investment to have somebody. And I think Rob, he also has his service where he's on monthly retainer, which is a new service that he just, yeah, put out.    Lau: That's awesome.    Anne: BOSSes, there's no reason why you shouldn't be prepared for when things don't go the right way, that you can be fairly compensated for your time and your efforts in your business.    Lau: Yeah. I wanna throw in one more thought, Anne. If it's appropriate, make sure you're disclaimers are there and make sure they're accurate. So when you're qualifying your language, you're qualifying your business, make sure the disclaimers say exactly what they need to say because — and I know Rob would talk about this a lot — specific words like will and may are totally different things. I am going to do this with you and for you. I may do this with you for you. So there's a lot of open door words, there's a lot of closed door words that you always wanna have — I hate to say an out, it sounds negative. I don't mean it that way.    Anne: No, I, I got that. Yeah.    Lau: You wanna have flexibility and leeway in the language so when someone comes back to you and says, well, you promised me this, you guaranteed me this, you can say, I didn't promise this, and I didn't guarantee this. I said…   Anne: As you can see, and I'm constantly quoting my terms of taking screenshots of it.   Lau: And you rely on it, don't you, Anne? Like a little --   Anne: As you can see — yes. Like put a link. As you can see my terms of service on my webpage, or as per our previous email, you can see quote, here's where we specified the terms of the job.    Lau: Yes. I got three words for you. And I'm not a lawyer and I don't give legal advice, but three words I love that come from my lawyers, my business, and I know you know this so much, look how excited I get — ready, ready?    Anne: Yes.    Lau: Ready? Subject to change.    Anne: Ah, yes. Always.    Lau: I just turned into Marilyn Monroe for a moment there.    Anne: That's a lovely --   Lau: Because it's true.    Anne: — lovely set of words there.    Lau: It's life. It's called life. And you wanna be able to legally, do the best you can 100%. But just in case something happens, you don't wanna be on the hook.    Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Great, great conversation, Lau. I love it.    Lau: Love it. So necessary.   Anne: BOSSes. Get out there, get out there and research and educate yourself on terms of service and go set up some terms of service. Get yourself a template that you can use in your email and something you can post on your website and yeah. Good stuff. All right. I am going to give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more with ipdtl.com. And also if you have a local nonprofit that's close to your heart, and if you've ever wished that you could do more to help them, you certainly can. I want you to visit 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how. You guys, have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week.    Lau: Bye!    Anne: Bye!   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

In this episode, Anne is joined by vocal health expert Nic Redman to unlock the key to vocal mastery. Together, they delve into the significance of warm-ups, breath control, and overcoming imposter syndrome. Discover the holistic approach to warming up that saves time, enhances performance, and ensures the longevity of your voice. Explore the vital role breath plays in voiceover and gain techniques to master longer phrases while maintaining the sentence and breath system. Don't miss this opportunity to elevate your voice and take your skills to the next level.    0:00:01 - Anne Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I'm excited to welcome podcaster, voiceover actor, speaking and recording coach, Nic Redman, to the podcast. Hey, Nic, how are you? I'm so delighted to be back. Yes, i love gosh. I've had you and also Leah from the VO Social podcast voiceover social podcast a couple of times already and now I get to have you all to myself.    0:00:31 - Nic Yeah, we don't need Leah to have a good time. We can do this on our own.    0:00:35 - Anne There we go, and absolutely So. I've been dying to talk to you about your, what I, what I feel is your specialty. You are like the guru of vocal health and I have been wanting to talk to you about that for quite some time, and I know that our boss listeners will have such value out of the wisdom that you have to share about vocal health.    So, thank you, thank you, thank you. So let's start, and actually I will say that you know, i rushed into my booth this morning and I did not warm up. And I am speaking and I want my voice to be in tip top shape and I know that everybody always says well, what you know, what vocal warm up should I do and are they, are they important and what can they do to help me get into tip top performance shape?    0:01:26 - Nic Right. So first thing in the morning there's a couple of things I think are really important and also just a dispel if you miss that kind of put people off, warm ups, i think as well. Sometimes, you know, because people are like oh, i don't have time to warm up. I don't know what to do. Like my voice is fine, I don't need to warm up Like there's. You know, I hear all of the excuses on all of the excuses.    0:01:47 - Anne I'm sure you do. It's like. It's like getting on the exercise bike. Right, i'm going to do what I'm going to do and I know it's good for me, but I don't do it. So let's talk about why we should.    0:01:57 - Nic So the thing about a warm up is it's about preparing you to be like the best you can be as a speaker. That's basically it You might be able to get. I mean, we all speak without warming up every day, like that's just life I can communicate with my husband, i can talk to my child and whatever emotion that requires at the time.    0:02:14 - Anne I can order coffee, You know I can.    0:02:16 - Nic I can do what I need to do And I could. But the thing about a warm up is when you're let's call it an elite vocal performer like all your listeners is that it's good, isn't?    0:02:25 - Anne it, i'm an elite vocal performer. Elite vocal performer? Yes, you are.    0:02:30 - Nic It's that. It's that you kind of find something extra right, and also you've sometimes got to speak in a way that is maybe slightly outside of your habitual place, like if you're in a really excited read or a really kind of sensual read or a video game or a character or something that even requires you, for example, audio book narrators. They have all of my respect.    They have to record for like thousands of hours for like days and then read another book in the evening and then do another book. I mean, like it's insane. So elite vocal performers have to find something else, and I think that something else can just be longevity and consistency, you know, and a healthy voice that will be there for you and sound the same in the morning as it does in the afternoon or the evening, or that something else could be going outside your comfort range to play a really big character, or do loads of grunts or something that's just different.    The thing about what a warm up does is helps you prepare for that. So the main things to focus on for a warm up are the fact that it's like for me, more than about just tongue twisters, and clarity, because that seems to be where a lot of people start like I need to warm up, peter Piper, peter Piper, peter Piper, peter Piper, and like sure, that's that's the first place they go. So what I advocate for because that's what I was trained as as a voice practitioner and as a performer is like a full body, holistic body, mind, breath approach. That being said, still doesn't have to take very long, and so it's all about remembering that you do have a body underneath your larynx, so that needs a little bit of like yes, yeah, i'm well done.    Can you imagine if we were all floating larynxes Like I feel like that would actually be quite nice for me because I love larynx, but I like the visual, I think yeah just a little larynx on feet floating around, just floating.    So it's about getting the body, the breath, even your head, in the game a wee bit. And that's what I love about warm ups is that you can use them. And this is my sort of, this is my current soapbox is that you know when people say, well, I don't have time to warm up, It's for it doesn't have to take a long time.    So five to 10 minutes of the right exercises, because often people are doing things that aren't the most efficient for their voice. And secondly, your warm up can actually save you time. And it does save you time Because if you take five to 10 minutes to warm up before you start, you will trip up over less words.    0:04:51 - Anne So you will have less editing or let's pick up. That's important, so important. Would you see editing, yes, please. Oh my God, i mean really, i think that's all there. I remember when I had my first you know stack, that someone prepared for me that I could apply to my audio file And I was like, oh my God, i just saved so much time. If I can save even more time on me at my editing, oh my gosh, i can do more jobs and be happier, that's for sure.    0:05:15 - Nic So it saves you time because you don't have to do like pickups because you trip over your tongue. She says tripping up over her tongue.    0:05:20 - Anne That always happens.    0:05:22 - Nic I mean the irony of all that, that's my that's me taking the Mickey out of myself. Like you know what I mean posture syndrome. Like you think you're so good at this, i'm going to show you.    0:05:33 - Anne No, you have to give a viable example.    0:05:35 - Nic So I probably the problem.    0:05:37 - Anne And that's interesting because I will say that I know that when okay, before I was a voice actor, I I taught and so I worked at a school and I would do these day long seminars or day long workshops where I would have to use my voice and I would absolutely be feeling it by the end of the day, And I'm quite sure that it is a muscle and that it needs to be worked. And especially because I do a lot of narration I don't do audio books, but I do a lot of e learning, I do a lot of corporate narration And I'm always talking to my students that it is a muscle that needs to be worked And it gosh. It would really help to not trip up so much. Right, I'm always say be more efficient in the booth, So you have to spend the less time editing.    Yeah, that way, get it right in the booth, and so I can totally see that. And I will say that sometimes I'm doing other things like marketing, or I'm coaching or doing other things, and by the time I get to those auditions late at night because I think my, i think all of my agents are in cahoots with one another because they send me these auditions late at night at the end of the day And I am so tired And I will notice sometimes my jaw gets a little bit sore And I'm like there's got to be something here that I'm doing that is not right. That's making my jaw sore, like I'm holding tension somehow somewhere in my jaw.    0:06:56 - Nic Yeah, there's loads of different things that we can play around with to sort of minimize those little niggles that creep up, because sometimes those niggles, over a period of time, become something that's much more sort of Much more of an issue, you know. So, yeah, we can talk to you about John, we can have a little release, but just before we do it, in terms of the warm-up and the why, yeah, save your time, because the tongue trip ups also. Save your time because and, if you like, do some exercises to release tension. Like you said, the jaw, the tongue, the lips, the Throat, the body get the breath moving. Play with your range as well, so you get lots of vocal color and expression in there. Then, when you get to your script and you are thinking about What you've got to say and the lines are there and who you've got to communicate with and all that kind of stuff, all you have to worry about is the words and the person that you're talking to.    You don't have to think about your voice, right you don't have to think about being interesting and changing color and doing weird things with pitch and weird, strange things with the prosody To make it sound interesting. Because that's one of my bug bears sometimes with voiceovers is I feel like they're trying too hard to make Their voices sound interesting, yes, instead of focusing on the listener. So like what? I love about a warm-up is that when you give someone really a really simple warm-up, it prepares them and frees everything up so that their voice goes wherever their intention needs it to in order to communicate the message.    0:08:14 - Anne So I don't see your time. I love that and I and I love the fact that that you mentioned that People they tend to to try to sound like you know, or predict what people want them to sound like. So they're trying to do all these Like vocal acrobatics when in reality, we just need to be, we have to have intention and we and we need that intention to be able to Not betray us when we want to express an emotion. In that, and I feel that, yes, having not to have to listen or worry about your voice, you know, not necessarily being there for you, i think is is amazing. So I love how you've turned it into not like something that's like, oh god, i have to do a vocal warm-up into how it really truly helps your performance and I think, really to be a better actor, right Yeah 100%.    0:09:03 - Nic It's just prepping all the bit so that they're go where you need them to go without you thinking about them.    That's what you know the right kind of muscle memory and prepping everything and also, like my approach is about making it like fun and interesting and nice. So I'm making it quick and easy and something that sort of slots into your routine and can become a habit. And the other thing I said it came across recently as a bit of a warm-up is useful because theory is that, because it works on the body And the breath, and I always advocate a wee mindful minute before you start, just to focus on what your body needs and what your breath feels like it needs And how your voice is feeling is.    It is actually almost like a wee bit of a mindfulness practice or a mental health practice as well. So if you're someone who likes a bit of meditation or body work or breath work in the morning, You can incorporate all that into your warm-up and then you're getting like two or three birds with one stone.    0:09:52 - Anne Yeah yeah, and I think, in addition to the vocal work, the breath work too is so important And that is part of a good vocal warm-up, i assume in your, in your, in your recommendations, because I feel like for me, i, you know, a while ago I had a health issue and had surgery and I wasn't able to breathe as well because it's surgery in my chest area And I noticed that I had to start learning how to really breathe and take Diaphragmatic breaths, like big, deep breaths, and the really cool thing about that is that, yes, i healed, but also it allowed me to really understand how powerful breathing is to my performance and how power especially when you're doing long Format and when the copy isn't necessarily written pretty or written well, yeah, when the copies all over the place and you need to be able to execute that effortlessly That is where a good, strong breath is so empowering, really truly empowering, more so than I ever imagined.    So in a way, it was good that I kind of learned that I needed to breathe and how much power it could really give me for my performance.    0:11:03 - Nic Yeah, I think one of the things that excites me about breath is Sorry.    0:11:12 - Anne I thought maybe yeah, yeah, well, you know, that's what happened, he's fine Breath yes, yes I love working on breath.    0:11:23 - Nic It's one of my favorite things, particularly with voiceovers, because there are some like interesting misconceptions and hangovers from like earlier breath Dementorologies in voice world that that make breathing for that make people who are doing voiceover sort of have to seem like they have to work A bit harder because they don't quite understand what's going on with the breath. Sure, so what? so what I work with in terms of breath is I I don't I kind of get people to forget about the diaphragm completely.    Okay because every breath is diaphragmatic, right, it's the primary muscle of breathing. So you can't, you can't not breathe with your diaphragm. So it's kind of a semantics with the language in one thing.    0:12:02 - Anne But well, maybe I was, maybe I was meaning deep breath. Yeah, exactly, okay, Okay.    0:12:07 - Nic Yeah, so like got it. So what I might? when, when people come to me and they say I need to breathe from or with they're using my diaphragm, what I find they're trying they're trying to, they're trying to do it rather than letting it happen, and what that leads to is people trying to breathe through their belly or Deep and all that kind of stuff, and that leads to engagement of muscles that don't need to be used. Ah, so so what I advocate for and tend to explore is Just is release and flow and movement, because Big breaths are great for, you know, long phrases sometimes and For, sometimes for powerful stuff, if that's what you need. But also, similarly, breath is as much about knowing that sometimes you only need a little breath or you only need a medium-sized breath, because actually what we need is the right amount of breath for the sentence We've got to say no more, no less, and that in itself is sort of an interesting skill to play with in a choir.    So all the work I do around breath is like Diver from be gone Okay, and just work on release of the belly, a little bit of gentle engagement on the out breath and on the voice And just understanding what you're capable of. Really breath like my big love, love, love breath.    0:13:19 - Anne I. So that just that intrigues me, because I I'm always talking about when, when you have that long run-on sentence right, and a Voice talent doesn't necessarily anticipate it, and they run out of breath at the weird part, right at the part where it doesn't sound natural. I'm always trying to get them to kind of you know, read ahead, understand where you might need to breathe in order to make that sound natural. How does that come into play with your breathing?    0:13:48 - Nic Yeah, so. So my thing is making sure that the breath system is responsive enough and free enough to breathe quickly when those little top ups are needed quickly and easily and silently, and silently When those little top ups are needed, because I know that often in voiceover there are various things that get in the way of feeling like you know how much type of breath you even need Right. Or you know you're halfway through ascending and you realize it's four times longer than you thought it was going to be Right, absolutely Right absolutely So.    there's a really interesting thing about breath whereby, when we're talking in conversation to our mates, right, we don't run out of breath. Our body knows how much breath we need for the thought, but when you're working with other people's thoughts, in voiceover you don't know where they fucking end Like in.    Some of them are, like you say, not written very well, so you could be halfway through and you suddenly realize it's like loads longer than it needs to be. But ultimately, as long as we're like engaged and connected to the words and what we have to say, that ascending is going to sort of be as long as it wants. As long as our breath is free and we know which bits to release when we need the breath to come in to top up for us, and you keep that intention of that thought in the background until the end, you can sort of breathe as much as you want. The reason I think this is important and crucial is because sometimes voiceovers push, push, push, push right to the end of a thought, and then everything gets a little bit kind of like tense.    0:15:10 - Anne Yeah, and it's not good for your breath and it feels horrible And it doesn't sound connected. It sounds like, oh my God, I'm going to run out of breath. Yeah, And the list? it doesn't jar.    0:15:19 - Nic It's not nice for the listener. anyway, sure. But, us as, as social listeners, we are used to hearing really long meandering thoughts with our friends and our on our family. Like we're used to people starting a thought and not really knowing where it's going, and then they breathe a bit to top up and then they go off in another direction And we stay with them because we're interested and because their intention is true, like they want to tell us the thing right.    So the theory is sort of the same, with voiceover for me, that the sentence can be as long as a sentence in fact needs to be As long as you are, like, committed to communicating that sentence and the breath system behind it is free to respond and be flexible and and fill it when you need to, then that's okay, so, yeah, so I work a lot with helping people understand how to get the breath in nice and, quickly and silently, how to support the breath when they need to. Also how to know where the point is Sure That they need to top up.    0:16:11 - Anne That makes sense, like the organization of the thoughts.    0:16:14 - Nic Yeah, like we speak.    0:16:15 - Anne I always when I'm, when I'm talking to my students, i'm like look, we don't. You don't hear us breathe when we're talking to to one another. We're basically breathing before we start talking, maybe after we finish talking, and then where there's commas or intended commas, and so that's typically where I say you've got to figure out where that breath goes. If it's super long, just kind of organize the thought and then speak that thought. I mean, that's, if you're in that scene, you'll speak the thought without necessarily, you know, running out of breath in the middle of it. Now I'm so conscious of my breathing right now I'm like it's beautiful And you're doing great because, look, you're alive.    0:16:51 - Nic Yeah, right, that's why you're alive and you're making voices perfect. Yeah, i interviewed Barbara Housman for my for the voice quits podcast one of my podcasts And she's this remarkable voice practitioner I have a massive. I've worked with her on and off for years and I train with her at drama school and stuff And she's amazing And she always says well, this is what she said to me was because there used to be a thought in kind of drama training that was like one breath, one thought, one breath one thought.    And then you look at Shakespeare and the thoughts are like 19 sentences long.    0:17:20 - Anne This is never going to work.    0:17:22 - Nic So she reframed it for me and she said it's not about it being one breath, It's about it being one thought.    So like I can keep that thought going and breathe wherever I need to, because breath is part of the communication as well. Now, i know for some types of voiceover you have to take the breath out and it's like fine, although I feel like with the event, like this AI nod. So this is going on. We need the breath because it's real and human. But that's just, that's just me. But, like you can, as long as you, as long as you really know that you need to say the words, you need to communicate the thing and you need to affect the person listening, you can let the breath come in whenever you want to, as long as it's very easy. So so that's what I work on. I work a lot on making the breath easy, responsive, habitual and kind of instinctive. I try and take people back a lot to noticing breath completely at rest, and then we build up from there and then we build on sound and then we build on thought lengths and things like that.    0:18:16 - Anne So, yeah, love it, wow, breath by breath. So so, in addition to breath being incredibly important when we're talking about performance in an extreme emotion or extreme, let's say, in video games, or we're having something that's highly emotional, where we have to probably utilize our voice more than a normal conversation level, what are your tips for helping? like you know, i don't want to scream the night before I have to record, maybe because I don't want to hurt my voice, or, you know, a lot of times people are like well, don't, you know, don't cough, like try to like clear your breath, or like gently, and there's so many different things that people tell you to do to kind of preserve your voice What sort, what tips do you have for?    0:19:04 - Nic that. So for extreme sessions, definitely a full body warm up And I would also put in place some sort of mid session resets. So two or three minutes of release exercises for the body and the vocal tract, so the throat, the tongue, the lips and the jaw and things every every, you know, half an hour or so. Just ask for a couple of minutes just to reset things so that if any strain has taken place or if any tension is creeping in, you can reset things and release things a little bit. So that's really useful.    Always hydrate, of course, at least the day before, if not, like the week before. Can you hydrate too much? Oh, my god, yeah, you can have. Okay, too much of a good thing. People get a bit obsessed with, like the fact that it needs to be water And they carry these water things around that like petrol cans. Like I got eight litres of water, yeah, yeah, that's like my arm would fall off a and be I'd be, i'm waiting all the time anyway, like the last thing. It is eight litres of water. So the the the general guideline at the moment is Is one mil per calorie burned right per day.    0:20:12 - Anne Is sufficient to keep you hydrated.    0:20:14 - Nic So for for a female that's like 1500, for a male That's about 2000, depending on your exercise. So if you exercise more you might need a little bit less.    Right you're lazy, alfakar, and you're on the sofa all the time, then you'd probably be fine, but it's also about your diet as well. So if again, if you are a Raw food vegan living in a rain forest, you're probably gonna need you're probably getting more water from your food and hydration from your food than someone who, like, lives in the city and eats frozen pizza all day.    But right so it's a whole list, completely holistic thing, like its environment, it's food, it's the fluids you take in. all fluids count towards systemic hydration, so that's hydration of the whole body. So anything you drink that's wet will help you hydrate and counts that even coffee I was gonna.    0:21:07 - Anne I was just gonna say so. I have to have my cup of coffee every morning. You know I have about one, one cup, and people are always like don't drink coffee, it will hot D You know it will, you know it'll dry you out. And I'm like, well, i always chase it with a lot of water.    So I mean that's oh good, that for me it worked. So I really do. I mean, i try not to drink a ton of coffee before a session in the morning. But here's a question Sometimes these days, these days, i utilize the morning hours because my voice just tends to be a little bit lower Before it's warmed up to actually do some voiceover work. Is there a way that you can warm up so that you can maintain that kind of a? and what is that phenomenon? What is that phenomenon where your voice is lower in the morning typically?    0:21:55 - Nic so my hypothesis for this is that you're more released, so the vocal folds to. To change pitch, i e go higher and lower the vocal folds Get longer and thinner to go high Okay and shorter and fatter to go low, and it's also about and then they vibrate. Have different number of oscillations per second right because of the size. The. The higher and lower you, the higher you go. This slightly more stretched, intense the vocal folds get. Mm-hmm the lower they are, the more slack they are. Okay, yep, been asleep on lion flap with your lovely natural breath, you know, not worrying about anything.    All your muscles are released, your throat's released and rested, and lovely, i would imagine in the morning your vocal folds are just a little bit fatter and more released. Ah, no offense, look at those fat folds.    0:22:50 - Anne Vocal foes. Hey, I don't mind having fat vocal folds and I sometimes people pay me for those. For those fat vocal folds, show me a fire in the morning, yeah great, it's great, so I think that's what it is. And then the more you talk during the day, mm-hmm the more your body ticks on.    0:23:04 - Nic A wee bit of tension, the more your larynx takes on a wee bit of the tongue, everything takes on a bit more tension, so it's slightly harder to get those folds to that more relaxed.    0:23:13 - Anne God, the fat place and is there a way to get them back to the fat place outside of? I'm gonna say vocal placement Right, right to do that, or tension release, really Yeah.    0:23:24 - Nic So I'm interesting gentle exercises That encourage a bit releasing the muscles around the larynx and in the vocal tract So you can do tongue release, jaw release, yawns to open and release the the back of the throat a little bit. Okay, Yeah gentle kind of rehab style, glides up and down your pitch on Whatever. A particular semi-occluded vocal tract exercise works best for you.    So semi-occluded exercises are exercises that utilize a sound that sort of partially closes the mouth, so a classic one that everyone knows is a little For some people a little is quite a lot of effort and not the right one for them other versions might be a gentle, puffy kind of Signed and or another one might be just a puffy th, so So, hmm, kind of sounds create a particular acoustic environment in a throat that allows vocal full vibration with minimal input.    0:24:22 - Anne Mmm, and that's a way to release tension. Yes, oh, okay, so do you win? Okay, so You, you work with students independently on vocal exercises, health preparation for. so take me through like what's a what's a typical with you, like, how do you assess my vocal health and my vocal performance? Okay, or just tell me what. you don't have to take me through it. I'm just don't describe what. what's the process of that?    0:24:57 - Nic I I do a lot of ninja listening, so, uh, if the first time you have with me, you're probably like why are we chatting so much and not like just getting started And then I'm like I've been listening to you.    0:25:07 - Anne Uh, but I talk to people. Have you been listening to me so far?    0:25:15 - Nic Like now.    0:25:15 - Anne I'm really piqued my interest.    0:25:18 - Nic So yeah, i do a little. Uh, i don't know if you have Sherlock Holmes, the uh program, like the British program with Benedict Cumberbatch over in America, but he does these like really amazing scans where he looks at somebody and does nose. Everything about him is like so do a cheeky weekend of Sherlock Holmes scan Like voice assessment with that's what part of my training is is being able to listen and go.    Oh, i hear this, i hear that, i hear the other. Um, so I do that while we're having to be, chat and make a few notes. I also collaborate that with why you've come. So you know, someone may have come going. I'm losing my voice and I don't know why. Sure, And I will listen and go. Well, that's this, or someone will go. I'm losing my voice And it's because X, y, z And I will go. I don't think it is actually. I think it's this, or or I'll go. Yes, you're right but, let's all try this.    So so it's a bit of a collaborative process And I I talk a lot about you know what the needs are, uh, what they expect from it, you know how long we've got together that kind of thing, and we just sort of piece together a bit of a strategy. It's very explorative and it's very bespoke and back and forth And I describe it like kind of sadly as a journey. It's like a journey you know, like.    so we like I don't do one to one's really anymore, i do two session, quick top ups or six session kind of packages, because we start together in one place And sometimes by session three we've actually realized it's something completely different and that's often can be a bit disarming or exciting or interesting and you just have to, as a voice, as a voice technique coach, you just have to respond to that. You know I have to teach what's in the room or the zoom.    0:26:49 - Anne Sure That makes sense In front of me Same with any coaching really.    0:26:53 - Nic Um. So you know there's no one size fits all. Right, it's a very back and forwards process. Sometimes I give you stuff I said go away working that for a couple of weeks, give me a shout, how's it going, and we go. Well, this is working. That's not working. And you know, we, we assess it really as we go along. Um, so it's a. It's a really lovely, lovely process. I love one to ones because it's so bespoke. And at the moment I tend to get a lot of people who are like I've tried this, i've tried this coach or that coach or the other coach, and we still can't work out what this is. So, um, and sometimes that's nothing to do with the coach, it's just the learning place the person is in, or you know what's going on in their life.    Maybe they weren't open to receiving certain information you know, but you know some. Often it takes a wee while to find the right coach for you and stuff, and you know people come to me and maybe go someone else, like like that's just what happens, um, but yeah.    I do get a lot of. what's this weird noise My nose makes, or I can't work out what's happening on this cluster of signs, All that kind of or why am I? you know? quite specific stuff. I'm not the moment, uh, Mike, specific stuff, which is what my book's about. It's like, it's it's voice for Mike users.    0:27:59 - Anne Oh, so let's talk about that, because you do, you have a, you have a new book out, i do. And let's talk about that, because I was just going to ask you about um for being on the mic. What are your tips for being on the mic? So this is phenomenal that you've got a new book out. I do.    0:28:15 - Nic It's called on the mic. Okay, straight forward.    0:28:19 - Anne There you go.    0:28:20 - Nic It's called on the mic and it's voice training for voiceover artists, podcasters, speakers and presenters, so basically anybody who uses a microphone, because that seems to be the people that come to me Sure. Sure, absolutely. And yeah it's been really it's been a really interesting and exciting journey, kind of consolidating all my knowledge into what I'm doing, Into that sort of a place, Um, I think, for there are a couple of things with Mike. Speaking is number one. Um, there's a different type of energy that's needed.    So and this again, this can differ from me sat here in Mabouth with this mic to somebody stood on a stage doing an expert speaking gig, Um, so it's about understanding the energy that you need for the space that you're in and the breath that you might need for the space that you're in and I think also as well the style of the delivery is really interesting and how you can use the right kind of voice warm up exercises to get you to a particular space. So if you have to sound conversational for your podcast, there are certain things you can do that are good for that.    If you need to get ramped up and deal with your adrenaline to host a conference, then there are certain things you can do for that. So the whole point of the book is to like go through a lot of scenarios, go through the voice training process that I advocate, which is body, breath, sound speech, and just end up with a big fat, a toolkit of things that you can piece together in a way that works for whatever mic context you need.    0:29:44 - Anne I love it. I love it Now. Is this your first book?    0:29:48 - Nic Yes, I mean, I think I'd written Instagram Instagram captions. I was about it Right.    0:29:53 - Anne Right, well, i know I feel like I've written a ton of blogs and I know you've got a great blog out there too. Um, and I'm part of your newsletter, so, um, yeah, so that's so. It's very exciting. So, your first book, and what was that process like? Did it take? like I I'm, because I, of course, you know I'm, i'm thinking about it, and of course everybody says, and you need a book. So, um, writing a book to me, i'm just, i have so much respect because I know how much time well, i know how much time it must take, so what was the process like for you?    0:30:26 - Nic Um, I really enjoyed it, actually really enjoyed it. The hardest bit was starting like with everything, Right, i did a lot of procrastinating. I did a lot of having my whether you believe in it as not imposter syndrome on my shoulder going what are you doing? Who do you think you are? Um, so I did a lot of inviting my imposter syndrome to sit with me while I while I explored what was happening, i was like come on then.    0:30:48 - Anne We'll do it together.    0:30:50 - Nic Um, as soon as I started each little writing session, I I was great, I loved it, I mean you get to the end of the first draft and then you're like what the hell is this? So, actually, what was more exciting and interesting and fulfilling was the editing process and playing around with it. So my advice is set we, set we taught. Set we targets, we regular targets that are achievable for you. Don't edit as you go, cause I got caught up in that and it took me longer, longer than I wanted to to get to the end of the first draft, but just get a first draft done And you could let you.    and, interestingly, what happened for me was it started as one book and by the time I'd finished the draft it was another book. So you know it sort of had to go back and and, um, change things up a wee bit. But I actually really enjoyed it.    I feel, very proud, but also, you know it's scary, it is a scary thing putting it out there, but you just have to remember who you're writing it for. You know I spent a lot of time as well, you know, basking in the shadows of the greats who've come before me And like there are so many incredible practitioners out there who I still learn from daily and whose books I read and who I just think are remarkable. And I did do a lot of. what if they think my book's terrible? and my business coach was like, who are you writing the book for? And I was like well, my clients. and they're like so does it? like I know what matters to you.    0:32:13 - Anne Do they think you're terrible? Probably not. No, do they care?    0:32:17 - Nic No, they have been asking you for a book, So they're going to be really excited. And do you think those people who you think are amazing are going to look at you and go, ugh, gross, you wrote a book. Or are they going to go?    0:32:29 - Anne that's well done, we've been there actually About time, right About time, there we go, fantastic.    0:32:34 - Nic Yeah, i've had some lovely. I reached out to a few mentors to help me, like, edit a little bit and they were really complimentary, so I'm really pleased with it. I feel it is the first one.    0:32:47 - Anne Well, I am so excited I'm going to rush out and get it. So how can bosses get this book?    0:32:54 - Nic Yeah, so it is on my website. If you go to onthemikbookcom Okay, Onthemikbookcom it should take you to the page we can buy. Perfect, Actually, it'll be. It's on Amazon.    0:33:09 - Anne And it'll be on Amazon as well, yeah, just do that Fantastic. And how can people get in touch with you in addition to buying your book? How can they get in touch with you if they want to work with you?    0:33:21 - Nic Oh well, probably my website, Nicrebinvoicecom. That's probably the best thing I'm also on the island, stern tic-toc and all that kind of nonsense too. So you can probably find me anyway by putting Nic Redman in Perfect perfect.    0:33:35 - Anne Well, Nic, it has been a pleasure. Congratulations. I'm very excited I'm going out there and getting a book now because I and I actually I want to be contacting you because I do have some questions about how maybe you can custom work with me with some of my voice questions that I have. So thank, you so?    much again. Yes, absolutely, bosses. Do you have a local nonprofit that's close to your heart? Well, if you ever wish that you could do more to help them, you certainly can Find out more at 100voiceswhocareorg to learn how. And a big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like Bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses, have an amazing week, Nic. Thanks so much. We'll see you next week. Bye, all right.    Transcribed by https://podium.page

Anne & Gillian continue their discussion on Boss Equipment Necessities, providing even more valuable insights on what essential audio equipment you need in your booth. They discuss the importance of selecting studio headphones that offer both comfort and accuracy. They also delve into the convenience and limitations of USB microphones, as well as providing a comparison of costs and quality of audio interfaces. Additionally, they share tips on where to get tech support and test gear in person. You definitely don't want to miss this conversation...   It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm excited to bring back to the show today creative freelancer, audio engineer, musician Gillian Pelkonen for another episode in our BOSS audio series.    Gillian: Hello (laughs).    Anne: Hey, Gillian.    Gillian: How's it going?    Anne: It's going great. So we've had some really intense conversations about our home studios. First of all, talking about where to locate your home studio in your home, where good place is, a little bit about sound absorption. Then we had a really cool, interesting episode, I think, on all the equipment that people don't think about that's required to run our voiceover business. Now we're gonna talk about all the obvious ones that I think people always, they love to talk about these, and --   Gillian: This is the exciting stuff.    Anne: I think the other stuff is exciting. I think actually people don't get excited enough about the other kind of technologies. So --   Gillian: I mean, (laughs), we know you're gonna marry the internet.    Anne: Yes.    Gillian: I have a spiritual connection to unboxing Apple products.    Anne: Yes, there you go.    Gillian: But the air quotes exciting stuff that everyone loves to harp on. Yes.    Anne: I dare say that I have a spiritual connection to my headphones, (laughs) to my headphones, and, and I know that people are always asking me, what are your headphones that you wear? Because I love wearing colorful headphones because it's part of my brand. And I actually have like all different colors of headphones right here with me.    Gillian: Wow.    Anne: I've got a lovely deeper blue here.    Gillian: You guys, if you're not watching, go to YouTube right now and you gotta see this.    Anne: Then we've got the royal blue here, which I love, and then of course I've got black. I actually have an alternate pair of the red ones and okay. So I think, can we talk about headphones (laughs)?    Gilliann: Yeah. I mean, let's start.   Anne: I've already started.    Gillian: So we talked computer, you have your computer, you have your internet connection, you have your isolated space, and it's soundproofed to whatever fits your budget and what you need right now to be isolated.    Anne: And your internet connection and website.    Gillian: Oh yes.    Anne: Right?    Gillian: Yes. Oh, and website. Yes.    Anne: And website.    Gillian: That is definitely important. Headphones. So important because you can't, you can't be playing out loud while you're recording (laughs).    Anne: Now here's the thing, there's reasons why we wear headphones. Okay? So what are the primary reasons you wear headphones, Gillian?    Gillian: Well, just in my everyday life, there's the convenience of being able to listen to whatever I want and to be able to hear that. But for recording, when you're recording voice, if you are playing out loud what you are recording, you will get feedback. And I don't think you will on the scale of a small computer, but there are a few studios that I've worked in, and when I was very new and prone to making mistakes -- obviously continue to make mistakes and learn from them — but when we had big speakers and we were recording in the same room, you definitely get a nice ear cleaning with that high pitch feedback. Because having an open source, you're DAW, armed and ready to record, and that -- it just creates a loop of sound, if you think about it, what's going into the mic, coming outta the speaker, into the mic, outta the speaker, and that just ruins it.    Anne: So well, okay. So there's a big debate in the voiceover world about, do you need headphones while recording? Because there's a lot of people that say you do not. It helps you to sound more natural. Okay? And of course you don't wanna have your speakers on either or your monitors.    Gillian: Oh yeah. That's what I'm thinking of. But this is interesting.    Anne: Yeah. So do you have your headphones on while you're recording? Because a lot of times, it's distracting listening to yourself, what you sound like in your headphones. So for me, okay — some people adopt the whole, I'm not gonna wear my headphones at all because it makes me sound more natural. I'm not listening to what I sound like in my ears. Some people do one ear on, one ear off to help that as well while they're recording. And some people wear them. Now I, years ago, started wearing them because I had a lot of sound outside of my studio. And I needed to be able to put my headphones on to hear if it was going to come through in the recording. And some things like my naked ears couldn't hear like the vibration of the truck that was a mile away coming down the road, and somehow vibrationally it came up through my studio. And the jackhammer that was maybe not right outside my door, but down the road because they were constructing new homes.    So for a long time I got used to wearing my headphones just to make sure I could step in the studio to make sure that I couldn't hear those sounds coming through my microphone. And then I just continued to wear them. Now I've done both, take them off when I'm recording or keep them on. A lot of times, if you think of it this way, (laughs), and this is not a popular opinion, I will have my headphones on while I'm recording because I feel that whatever you hear in your headphones is just you amplified. And if you are an accomplished actor that can act like you, without paying attention to what you sound like in your headphones, you can wear headphones.    And for me it's something that, it's kind of on a day-to-day basis. I'll probably wear my headphones more often than not, just because I've been doing this for a very long time, and all I do every day when I coach is tell people not to listen to what they sound like and to just be themselves. And so I wear my headphones. Plus I do a ton of editing, I do a ton of coaching, and so I need to, and I don't have monitors, number one for the very technical reason is honestly I just don't have space. I don't have space to put a nice pair of monitors on my desk. So I wear my headphones when I edit.    And so headphones to me have to be comfortable. And they have to be studio headphones of course. And that should be a given. Anybody, any BOSSes out there that are just starting in the industry, make sure they're studio headphones, and they're not any other type of headphones that's gonna add more base or more treble or that adds prettiness to it. You just need studio headphones so you can hear the raw output.    Gillian: Yeah, it's definitely an interesting conversation. I think my advice is gonna be the same as always. My advice is just try 'em all and see what works. I personally, when I am singing, I do one ear on, one ear off, mostly for pitch, because how you sound in your head, it's all relative and different. I think that there are some things to be concerned about. Obviously if there is extraneous noise coming on your recording, you wanna be aware of that. But if you're connecting to a client, really if there's an engineer on the session, they should catch that. Like, that's my job when I'm working with talent. Another issue, sometimes I hear the movement of headphones, but I've never really asked talents what they're doing. And maybe it's putting them on and off, but there are a lot of moments functionally during a session when a director is gonna wanna get your attention. And so if you're just rocking without headphones, that's something to just consider.    Anne: Yeah. You'll have to hear them. And you just said something, I don't mean to interrupt, but you just said something that made me think the physical sound of your headphones. Believe it or not, if like -- these headphones, the exterior is, there's some plastic components here. As they get older, believe it or not, if I move my head, because we're very physical as voice actors behind on the mic, as I move my head, they make noise. And that noise comes in through my recording. And I, I remember for the longest time there was this tiny little click, and I was like, I don't have a mouth click. Where's that coming from? It was coming from my headphones. And so for me, I found a way to, I actually had bought a new pair of headphones so that they didn't -- they weren't really squeaking, but they were making plasticy noises. And I know that's not a technical term, but it's a noise where like if I do this (clacking nails on headphones) --   Gillian: Yeah.   Anne: — you can hear that. It wouldn't be that loud, but it would be something similar to that. And so --   Gillian: Interesting.    Anne: Yeah. For those of you guys listening to that, I was simply just squeezing the headphone earpiece with the headpiece together --   Gillian: To get that plasticy --   Anne: To get that plasticy sound.   Gillian: — noise sound. Well, there's another thing that I've noticed with headphones that's important to note -- just this is more function than which headphones to get. But, and it could be 'cause people are taking them off. But a lot of times I'll be working with the talent’s audio from a session we just did, and through their recording I can hear everyone else talking. And this doesn't really happen during the recording, but I can hear myself slating things not recorded. So I don't know, if you're taking your headphones off and you're putting them down, you gotta think about, okay, if someone starts talking or if there's other noises, those are gonna get directly into the mic. Or if your headphones are too loud, there's gonna be too much bleed. So just things to think about when we're talking about headphones.    Anne: Two good points. I wanna actually go back on that, right? If you put your headphones down and obviously you're not hearing (laughs) other things, right, other noises can come through them. And also you mentioned bleed. Bleed is important because right now I'm really, really close to my microphone. And depending on the volume that you have your headphones turned up to, and I'm a little older so I might need a little higher volume. And so sometimes you have to be careful that the sound coming through your headphones doesn't bleed back through your mic. And for that reason I have closed headphones. And that's why I recommend closed headphones for most voice actors, if that's the case. If you're gonna be sitting out just doing editing all the time, I don't think they need to be closed backed. If you're just gonna use 'emfor editing.    Gillian: If you're watching us, I have open back headphones. But I just got these recently, these are like the Sennheisers, I think the HD 600s. That's what I thought. And I have these mostly for mixing and I I listen through them 'cause they're really comfortable. But my closed headphones, I also have AudioTechnicas. They were my first headphones, like pro headphones; they're amazing. The pair that I had was under a $100. I've had 'em for years. They're amazing. So whoever is saying that you need really expensive headphones for amazing sound, you don't. There's lower models that are great and then you can upgrade. There's a whole range of AudioTechnicas that get more precise or, or just have different features that you can invest in if you wanna spend more. But there should be no barrier to getting, I think they’re $70 or something like that, which --   Anne: Well, I'll have to tell you about mine that have the color. because people are always asking me. And I do have, I do have a studio gear page off of AnneGanguzza.com and as well as the VO BOSS page studio gear that I recommend. And by the way, I don't put anything on this page that I don't use or have not owned. And I will say that I love AudioTechnica headphones as well. And of course before this turns into an AudioTechnica podcast -- which it's amazing, there's lots of great headphones out there. The one thing that I love about AudioTechnicas is for me they're super comfortable. I literally wear my headphones when I'm on coaching days and I'm coaching eight hours at a shot. I have them on my head eight hours. Because again, like I said, I don't have monitors in my room and plus my husband works upstairs, and so I wanna be able to keep things at a minimum. And so they have to be super comfortable. I have to be able to hear the talent, right, to be able to direct them.    So for me, they are amazing. They're a little more than $100 because of the color, the special additions they are the MX 50s and in whatever color -- I don't believe they make the red anymore, but if you're lucky you can find them somewhere, somewhere out there. There'll be an extra pair that somebody has that's still new in the package. I've bought three pairs of red 'cause red is discontinued. My royal blue has been discontinued. Every year they come out with a new color. And so every year I find it necessary to buy another color just because I'm on the camera a lot and I love -- and they make me happy. Right? If you're gonna have on your head for a long time, they should make you happy.   Gillian: And comfortable, most important.   Anne: Yeah, and they should be comfortable.   Gillian: -- don't need a headache.    Anne: — be accurate as well. Right? So for that reason, the AudioTechnics are my faves, and I do own a pair of Paradynamics. I've owned the Sony, oh gosh, I think it was the 7507s, I believe. And the one thing that I didn't love about the Sonys, although I love the sound, was the actual cable that connects was a twisted cable. And what happened is they never traveled well. They became entangled within themselves. And if you've ever had a coiled wire get tangled in itself, and you try to pull it apart, it's horrible. It just gets twisted onto itself. And so I love the AudioTechnicas 'cause they always have the straight cable that you can use and it doesn't get twisty. And that may seem like a very silly reason to love the AudioTechnicas, but that's one of many reasons why I love that. But it's a viable reason because the twisty turn coiled cables, they're not fun to get them untangled when they get tangled, especially when you travel with them and you're trying to wrap them around --   Gillian: No.   Anne: — the headphones.   Gillian: Definitely not. And something to think about when we're talking, all of these things are essentials. And I'll just tell a brief, brief story, but the other day I was doing a session with a voice talent, and we were having all of these issues. I still don't know -- I was on the session, but I wasn't the head engineer of it. So I don't know exactly what happened. But we think that between when we were testing with the talent to when we pulled the client in, their headphones broke because they magically could not hear us.    Anne: Oh wow.    Gillian: And you need to have an extra pair because you can't be on a session without having an extra pair of headphones. It's super — and I'm sure we'll say, and I know, Anne, you've said before in the past, you need backups of your backups. But definitely even if you have your splurge pair and you have a less expensive pair just to use in case of an emergency, there could be a chance that you're on a session, and in the middle it breaks, and you can't continue the session without the pair of headphones. So just don't forget about having some, a little insurance on your sound.    Anne: Yeah. And you know that, it's interesting that you mentioned that, and I talk about headphones so much because when I'm connecting with students through ipDTL -- and this would be just like me, I would be the studio and they would be connecting through Source Connect or ipDTL — you have to have headphones to avoid that feedback. when you're connecting via those methods. And simply earbuds are not the best because sometimes they don't fit your ear properly. There's bleedthrough and honestly closed back headphones are probably the best for any kind of studio session you're going to have.    And I just say yes, I totally agree with you, Gillian, about the backup. Because I have had people who like all of a sudden they're like, oh, I can't hear you. And I'll be like, do you have another pair of headphones? And at that point if you even have a backup like set of EarPods works but in a pinch. But really have an extra set of headphones in case that happens. Because the last thing you want is for you to lose connectivity with your client to be able to hear what they're saying and to do your job. I mean it is part of your job. So have a backup, and honestly most headphones are not expensive. I, I'm going to tell you the AudioTechnicnas, even these, the new versions that they come out with are about 160 some-odd-dollars. The navy blue ones I just bought were like $169. So they're not tremendously expensive at all. And I know you can get some fabulous head phones for less than $100 for $99. I think that's what my Sonys were that I bought. So well worth the investment.    So in terms of headphones, make sure that they're studio headphones. Make sure -- I like to say close back if you're gonna be using them for any kind of recording at all 'cause you don't want the bleedthrough. If you're gonna sit there and edit all day, yeah, maybe open back or others will work fine for you. Make sure they're comfortable for your head. And especially if you wear glasses 'cause you don't want them to push in on the glasses and then have the glasses give you a headache. That's the last thing.    Gillian: Yeah.    Anne: All right.    Gillian: Okay. Should we lightning round a little bit the rest of some of the other things that we might need?    Anne: Yes.    Gillian: Because I know, I know what I'm thinking.    Anne: Microphone.    Gillian: Microphone. Yes. And we'll do a whole episode on microphones about the different types and and what kind you might need. I personally always say large diaphragm condensers for voice actors. There are amazing -- you know, everyone knows the TLM 103 that's upwards of $1000. There's also amazing mics that if you're a beginner, and you're not ready to invest that much money, that will not sound exactly the same but will be a large diaphragm condenser mic and will do the job, will make you sound great.    Anne: Absolutely. I used an NT1, a Rode NT1 for at least six years of my career full-time before I bought a 416. Actually I bought the TLM 103 and then I bought a 416 as well. So now I have both of those in my studio. But guess what? Also sitting on my desk here, I have a USB AudioTechnica AT 2020, and that works for some of my other connections. Believe it or not, that works for my Clubhouse connections because my Club Deck software doesn't like my audio interface so I have to use a USB mic and it makes me sound a whole lot better. And so those USB mics, they come in handy for lots of applications. Maybe not for your professional recording but for other applications that help enhance the sound of your voice.    Gillian: Yeah. And here's the -- I'm not going to say that people shouldn't use USB mics. I mean the audio engineer and me, always, I love an interface and a mic just because. It's so funny, I wrote a whole blog post on this so if you're interested you can go read my blog about the core differences between like the functionality of what a USB mic or like a USB and interface does, and the pros and cons of both, 'cause there's pros and cons of both. When you have the interface, there's more things to know, there's more things that can go wrong. There's just —   Anne: One more thing in the chain    Gillian: — sensitivity. Yeah, exactly. But if you are interested and you want a USB mic, there's definitely options that will make you sound as good as you need to sound to start out. And I don't wanna get on here and say that you can't book a job or get started in voiceover using a USB mic, because there's so many uses for it. And once you upgrade, if you choose to upgrade to an interfacing mic, then you have that other option to use for things like, like --   Anne: Any mic.   Gillian: Yeah.    Anne: That's what I love about. I think really if you've got, I say for any voice talent in a pinch if you have to, you can use a USB, if you've got a good recording environment, in a pinch, but it's not recommended. I would say even if you're traveling, I've tried it all. I do have, I've got a great Tula mic, which is a USB mic and it's amazing. So if I have a good space, you know, my little Tula can hook up USB, and I can get a decent audition. I wouldn't necessarily use it for any type of work that you wanna send to your client, broadcast type work, but in a pinch, like absolutely.    But for every day kind of voiceover I recommend condenser with an audio interface. And again, you don't have to have the $1000 mic. There's lots of great mics and there's so many discussion rooms and forums on what mic should I get? But I also have recommendations that I think work. It really depends on your voice and your comfort level, and work with a vendor that you can send it back if you don't love it.    Gillian: So important that you can either -- I mean I know in big cities -- I'm not entirely sure ‘cause I haven't done this in a while, but I know I'm in Guitar Center, I went there all the time growing up to play the instruments, and I know that they have a mic room where you can try stuff. I know that -- I'm pretty sure it'd B and H in New York City, you can try mics there, but I love Sweetwater. You can chat with agents there, you can talk to them. I'm pretty sure they have a great return policy because if you get the mic and you're investing all this money and you don't love it for your voice, even though everyone on the forums is saying it's top VO mic, don't keep it. Find something that makes you sound great because no one in the end is gonna know what mic you're using. They're just gonna know how you sound.    Anne: Well, exactly. And I also think though it's worth mentioning that if you get a mic and you want an assessment of what you sound like, Gillian, my goodness, like what you do all the time, the sound assessments, right?    Gillian: Yes.    Anne: Gillian can absolutely give you an assessment of how your voice sounds with that particular mic in your environment. I think there's a lot of things at play here. It's your environment and also the mic, and there will be a difference. So for me, I can say, you know what, I like the way this mic makes me sound, but I haven't recorded a file with it and sent it to somebody. Because again, sometimes if you're just starting, it's very difficult. You don't necessarily have an ear yet. Sending it to someone like Gillian is very important, who is, you know, this is what Gillian does; she's an audio engineer. She listens to sounds all the time and every day so she can make an accurate assessment and also tell you if this suits your voice or this doesn't suit your voice.    And I really believe that you also have to be happy with it. And don't forget, there's some people who mistakenly think that, well, I can use this mic and then I can process my voice to make it sound even better. And in reality as a voice actor, that's not what we wanna do. I mean, we simply wanna be able to give the cleanest recording that we can, and maybe our mic should, like what sorts of things should mics do for our voice? You know what I mean? They shouldn't change our voice, but they should enhance our voice.    Gillian: Yeah, they should -- I think I said this in the first episode we did together, but microphones are microscopes picking up your voice. And so every mic has a different capsule in it. It has a different way of processing, whether you're using dynamic mic or ribbon mic, all the different types of mics, they all react differently to sound. And so some people love singing on ribbon mics because it's quieter, it's more sensitive. I have a super cardioid condenser microphone that I, I love using on my voice and I tried the U87, all these other things. So it's really about, and this is a difficult answer because it's like you need to find what works for you because the mic that makes Anne sound great might not make me sound great. And all the processing in the world — obviously you can EQ it and change it a little bit, but really it's like finding a pair of jeans. Like you gotta find one that fits you and makes you look and feel your best. Maybe not look but jean analogy sound like you.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: You know?    Anne: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I don't think that there's any mic that will make you sound better than you. I mean your whole goal is really to make you sound the best that you can sound. And there's lots of mics -- and again, you could have a really like inexpensive mic in a great environment and sound amazing. You can also have a very expensive mic in a poor environment and sound horrible. I remember back in the day before I really had secured my environment sounding as best as it could, I purchased a shotgun mic, and it wasn't a 416, but I purchased one of the knockoffs and I actually hated it. I hated the way it made my voice sound. But I found that once I got the 416 and I had my environment, I love the way it sounds now.    And it's really interesting because before I was like, well I held off getting a -- it's why I got the TLM 103. And for me now I realize for my voice, the TLM 103 is a little bit of a brighter sound. And the 416 will pick up a little more of the bass sound, and that's typically true for most voices. But again, until you try it, you're not gonna really know, and it really has to be up to you. And again I think sending sound audio files to engineers who have the ear, who this is what they do, like Gillian, is really worth an investment to get the overall assessment on yes, this mic is good for you. Or also it will help you to determine if maybe (laughs) like how many times, I think we talked about this, Gillian, somebody might have had the installation of their mic backwards, and they were speaking into the back of the mic versus the front of the mic.    Gillian: Yeah.    Anne: A lot of times people don't sidedress their mic, right? They're speaking right into it. So there's a lot of plosive. So there's a lot of things that, Gillian, you can help talent to assess with their sound. And most people think it might be a mic problem, it may not be a mic problem.    Gillian: Yeah. Sometimes it's really simple stuff. Your room sounds really loud because your gain is up too high and you're not close enough to the mic. So it's picking up everything. Or it's on omni when it should be on cardioid, or you're facing the wrong way. There's so many things that someone listening could hear if you have a trained ear. Before we go, I know we have to go very soon, but don't forget your pop filter for your plosives.    Anne: Ah yes.    Gillian: So important.    Anne: Oh my gosh.    Gillian: I know you have like the pop filter shield sort of thing. That's what it looks like. Looks like you have, if you're using an interfacing mic, you need an XLR cable to connect the two. So important 'cause how are you gonna get from mic to interface from point to the other? So you get your mic, you get your interface, you don't have an XLR cable, you can't work. A mic stand. So important. What are you gonna do do without a mic stand? (laughs) You can't hold it.    Anne: Well, exactly. You really can't. And I think that again, more equipment besides your mic stand, I actually prefer --and this is just me, I always tell my students for me and my studio, I like the boom arms that can be mounted on the wall. Because a mic stand to me, I can't tell you how many times I've heard talent like trip over the tripod-like feet.    Gillian: Oh my gosh. Lemme show you my cute little stand.    Anne: With their mic. Yeah.    Gillian: I have this like, everyone watching, this like cute little baby stand that I just put on my desk. I think that those are really smart, the ones that clip right on. This little guy just sits on my desk and I can take 'em wherever.    Anne: Okay. Well, that's if you're sitting at a desk. But if you're standing and you have one of those tripod-like standing mic stands…    Gillian: They're hard to maneuver. Yeah.    Anne: They're hard. They're hard to fit in a lot of studios. I used to trip over mine all the time, so I basically have boom arms that I mount on the wall in my studio. They save a lot of space at my feet when you don't have a ton of space. And also, like you said, you can't hold it. And then we do need to mention the most important thing from the mic, right, that goes into your audio interface, your audio interfaces, and then everybody has questions. What's the best audio interface? Now I have been through the gamut of audio interfaces, but the main job of your audio interface is to translate the analog signal that comes from your microphone into a digital signal before it goes into the computer. Correct, Gillian?    Gillian: That's what it does. And typically it does both. It does the analog to digital conversion and then most audio interfaces have a headphone jack. So really we monitor off our computers, but you can monitor off of there where it goes digital right back to analog for you to listen to.    Anne: Oh right. Absolutely. I wasn't even thinking of that. You're right, because that's where my headphones are plugged in all the time. I started, gosh, I started with the Personas. And I'm trying to remember, I think I probably at one time had a Scarlet Focusrite, which I don't love those interfaces -- and I know we had a conversation in one of our podcasts about interfaces. I then, when I bought my studio here, I have a Mackey because I was intending to be able to do talk back to people in this booth to rent this booth. And ended up having a technical issue with that, which I sent it, it got fixed, it was under warranty that is now my backup interface.    And then I purchased an Apollo. And my Apollo, I have a mostly love relationship with my Apollo because of the plug-ins that work with it, which I absolutely love. But however, when we talked in our last episode about computer and keeping your computer up to date, well the (laughs) latest version of Mac OS is not up to date with the latest version of the Apollo. So you just have to make sure that you are aware of what's happening. The one that I recommend in terms of like a really great price, and I think works for the majority of people is the Steinberg UR22. And that is like about a hundred and — I wanna say $170. And I had one that I used for years, and it was just a workhorse and I love it. And that does all of the conversion, versus Gillian, if I'm correct, in saying with a USB mic, the conversion happens at the base of the microphone, right? So converting analog to digital. So there's a chip there that's doing that conversion.    Gillian: The biggest difference between the two is that when you use an interface, the mic just gets to be a mic, but within the USB mic it's all happening. And usually you'll see a little headphone jack too. It does A to D and then D back to A conversion.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: You pay less and you get everything is gonna be slightly lower quality because you're paying for --   Anne: You gotta fit into a tiny, little --   Gillian: — a microphone — all of the conversion, all of those things in one small device versus, you know, separating them out. So that's kind of where don't use USB mic comes from just because you can get higher quality with the separate.   Anne: You have so many more choices. Right? Because you can have a Focusrite or a Steinberg or an Apollo.   Gillian: You get to mix and match.   Anne: And you can have whatever microphone you want (laughs) connecting up to it.    Gillian: The other thing that I love about that is that there's room to upgrade. So let's say you wanna splurge on a really expensive mic and you're, just, you know, oh, I wanna start with this interface. Or vice versa. You wanna splurge on an Apollo for $1000, but you wanna use a $200 microphone and then say I'm gonna wait a couple years and then upgrade. Personally I've used Apollos, I've used UAD. I kind of struggle with the software issue even though I've used the plugins. They're awesome. I like Focusrite stuff. I like the Scarlets. I think it's great. I think voice actors really only need one input, possibly two. If you wanna have two mics set up just to switch between, you know, a shotgun and a large diaphragm condenser, if you want 'em at the same time. I like Apogee as well. The Apogee Solo and the Duet, those are great too. Those work really well. So those are my faves.    Anne: I'll just disagree with you on the Scarlet only because I've just had a lot of voice talent that have had bad luck, and I think mostly it's -- and I myself have thrown away two of them. And I think mostly a few years back, I think they used a bad chip set. I'm not sure what it was. Or they created these bundles where you got headphones, microphone, and interface all in the same package. And I think they used lower quality parts. And what would happen is voice actors would find, all of a sudden they'd get some sort of a noise or hissing, and nobody knew what it was, and it ended up being the interface. So for me that just kind of, I tossed that one to the side and said, I'm not gonna recommend that one anymore. But Scarlet, typically Focusrite had an impeccable reputation there for a while until I ran into bad luck with it past few years.    I think if you buy a bundled package, (laughs) meaning from a manufacturer or something, especially at Costco, as much as I love Costco, right, there are packages made, packages that are made for Costco. Sometimes they use cheaper parts in those, and sometimes you'll find that the quality won't last as long. Sometimes though you'll buy stuff at Costco, not necessary technical equipment, but you'll find things at Costco that's better (laughs) than you would find at other stores. But that's just my personal experience.    Gillian: I see. I've never had any bad experiences with Focusrite. I've used the larger hardware as well, the professional studio models of stuff. And those sound amazing. I think I've had a lot of friends and myself who've used the Scarlet interfaces and haven't had issues. So, that's my experience. And it's so funny, I've been wondering why people don't recommend bundles because I wouldn't buy audio gear from Costco (laughs). But there's a few places, like Sweetwater is my favorite place to buy gear.   Anne: Yeah, but they’ll bundle individual pieces together. Now, I'm talking about manufacturers that create whole bundled sets of things together.    Gillian: Well, Sweetwater is awesome. And B and H, they also have some great bundles. And with Sweetwater specifically, if there's a bundle you like, but there's a piece of gear you don't like, you can reach out to them personally and swap it around and get a discount from sort of buying in bulk. And they have some pre-made stuff so that if someone was trying to set up their home studio, didn't know where to start, it gives you a little place to get started.    Anne: And one thing I will say before we go, one thing that I love about Sweetwater is you get tech support. Oh my God, that is like unheard of these days. Like if you don't know, if you're having a problem installing the interface, you can call them up and get help. And that to me is invaluable.    Gillian: They're amazing,    Anne: They're wonderful to work with. So.   Gillian: Yeah. Very knowledgeable. I love Sweetwater. It's my favorite place to put my money. I have a few friends that work there as well, and all of their employees are highly trained and they know --   Anne: Very educated --   Gillian: — about the gear. It's like a prerequisite to work there.    Anne: Wow. We could go on forever, but, uh…   Gillian: We could.    Anne: Good stuff, Gillian, thank you so much.    Gillian: Thank you. And for anybody who is interested to get your audio assessed by me, I know we did a few episodes about it, but if you missed them, you can just head to my website, GillwiththeG.com. It'll, I'll be linked down here and I have some audio assessments. I have a little free course on, on setting up your home studio and a few blog posts or a bunch of blog posts just talking about different audio things if you're interested in learning more.    Anne: Awesome guys.    Gillian: So hungry for knowledge, (laughs).   Anne: And Gillian is a BOSS. Otherwise, she wouldn't be on the BOSS — she wouldn't be, she wouldn't be on the BOSS podcast. Anyways guys, here's a chance to use your voice to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. Visit 100Voiceswhocare.org to commit. You guys -- oh, and a big shout-out, before I forget, to ipDTL, who is our sponsor. You too can connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Join Anne & Lau as they provide expert insights on overcoming self-sabotage and building powerful connections in the voice over industry. Learn to bring your authentic self to every performance, acknowledge negative self-talk, and rise above self-doubt. Discover strategies to take control of your negative self-talk and move past excuses to help you excel in your voice over career. Anne & Lau will also guide you on how trying new things and getting used to small failures can help you break out of a perfectionist rut and take your voice over business to the next level.   Transcript   It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hello, BOSSes. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS superpower series with my ever so special guest,(laughs), Lau Lapides.    Lau: Thank you, Anne. Hello. How are you?    Anne: How are you? Oh, awesome. Look at us. How are you?   Lau: Jinx.    Anne: What is that punch? What is that? Punch Bug. Punch Bug?   Lau: (laughs). Wait, what is that show? Uh, Wonder Twin powers, activate.    Anne: Activate.   Lau: Form of --   Anne: Right? Business superpowers. Activate.    Lau: Activate.    Anne: Activate.    Lau: (laughs) Ooh, I love that. (laughs)    Anne: Speaking of superpowers, activating, sometimes I find that my students have a hard time activating their superpowers, and I'm a firm believer that everybody has superpowers in the booth. However, it takes a lot to get past things so that they can activate those superpowers. It's like they get in their own way. Right? Get out of your own way.    Lau: Yes. Get out of your -- if there were a place, if there were a waiting room that we could leave ourselves in when we go into the booth, or a camera, or an interview, or wherever you're going to do your work, we could leave ourselves there and not worry about it until we come out and get ourselves again — that would be a good thing to do.    Anne: Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's so tough. I think I always go back to what we do is so personal, right? Our voice is such a personal extension of ourselves, and we're being asked to bring ourselves to a performance constantly. But yet, there are times when we cannot do that, right? In reality, we think we're trying to bring the performer, right, to the performance, but in reality, we want you to bring yourself to the performance. And I think that is what most people have the hardest time doing, getting out of their own way so that they can bring themselves to that audition, to the booth, to the read, whatever that is. And so how do we get out of our own way, Lau? I mean, I think it's a struggle that everyone that gets into voiceover encounters at one point or another.    Lau: I mean, I think that this is a struggle that we encounter throughout our lifetime, whether we're a voiceover talent or not, but certainly actors of all kinds are always going through identity crisis, always going through, who am I now, and am I good enough? That old imposter syndrome?    Anne: Yeah. Yeah.    Lau: And one thing that I always do, and I do this for myself, and I recommend this as a coach as well, is self-talk scripting. I think self-talk scripting is really important to do. And you guys, you can do this, and you can do this all day long, and you can even do it in your head. But I recommend you start out by doing it on paper and write down your negative script. That is the thing that you are saying to yourself in the moment that is really negative. And then I want you to convert that into something that's positive and probably closer to the truth.    Anne: I like that.    Lau: Yeah. It just gives you a step.    Anne: And hang that in your studio. Hang it in your studio.    Lau: Yes.    Anne: So you see it. Yes. Absolutely.    Lau: Yes. And so it can be revolutionary in the sense of saying, wow, if I'm moving towards some sort of enlightenment in my personhood and in my career, I have to be authentically who I am, which means I'm flawed. I'm not perfect by any means, and I'm not even close to it. I'm a real person who's interesting and diverse and complex and sophisticated. So when I have something that comes in my way to self-sabotage my success, I have to stop and recognize it. I have to take accountability for it, and then I have to change it.    Anne: And I think number one, for people really just starting off -- I think people that have been doing this for a while, they understand the process. But the first thing that people will do is judge how they sound. And we've talked about this so many times, right? They're like, oh, I don't like the way that audition sounds. And I don't think it sounds like what they want it to sound like. And that right there is your self-sabotage. The fact that you're saying, okay, it needs to sound a certain way, and you're not in any way thinking, how can I bring myself to this read? Or how can I bring my person to this read to make it unique, to make it something that will really perk up the ears of the casting director and really tell the story. That's what gets in the way, I think, a lot of times.    Lau: And even as part of that, like if you're having a piece of copy in front of you, a script in front of you, anything written in front of you, that gymnastics that a lot of times you may go through in saying, I don't know if I wanna do this. I'm not ready for this. I don't really know what this means. And I've never seen — all the stuff, all the excuses we start to come up with --   Anne: Oh, so many excuses.   Lau: -- to procrastinate from getting to the job.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Right? I'd love to come up with that first before we even open our mouth. (laughs). Like, what do we say to stop us from getting to the point of doing the job?    Anne: Well, I'm gonna say, stop like talking to yourself and beating yourself up about how you sound and spend that time instead getting out of your way. How can you get out of your way constructively? Well, there's a little thing called Google(laughs). Anne GanGoogle says, Google. Right? Especially if you've got a script and you've got some clues in that script that can help you find out more about what that script, that content is about. Because to bring yourself to that party, you've gotta involve yourself in the story of the script. And the more you know about the story of the script, the more you know about the brand that's involved in that script, the more you know about these little clues that are in the script, these little sayings or nuances, the more you can educate yourself on that, the easier it's gonna be for you to bring your point of view to it.    Lau: Hmm. I love that. And add on to that, have your circle ready to go. Who's your circle? Your coaches, your family, your friends, whatever. Just have people there that you can call upon to remind you about your greatness and your fabulosity.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Now, make sure they're not gonna rip you down. Make sure they're not gonna rip you apart and make you self-doubt. Because if they do that, then it's counterproductive. You want people who are going to keep building you up, building you up, building you up, so that you have the confidence to face what you need to face. It doesn't mean they're lying to you. They may not even be in the industry. They may not even have the industry knowledge, but you wanna have that circle of people there for you to call upon to say, you know what? I don't feel great today, or I don't think I sound great. What do you think? And they say, I don't hear anything wrong with your voice. Your voice sounds great. So what's your deal? And it makes you just stop and get out of your head. I would say get out of your head and get into the world.    Anne: Yeah. I love that. I love that. Definitely you need your network, your VO family. And honestly, as we were discussing before, in a weird sense, I'm gonna say you are more than VO. If you just take a look at the words voiceover, right, there's really not much substance to voiceover in words. It's like a voice, but in reality, you are so much more than just that voice. I mean, you really have to start establishing yourself or thinking of yourself as much more than just the voice. You are the actor, you are the entrepreneur, you are the business person.    And with that, I think, comes a sense of something that you can bring to that read or that script that is more than just thinking, oh, it's just about the voice and then stressing yourself out over and over and over again and beating yourself up about how it's not -- what am I doing wrong? Or why is nobody listening to it? What is the feedback? And absolutely reach out to that network, network of coaches, network of accountability buddies that you have to get you out of that funk. Because sometimes it is a funk.    Lau: It is. And much of the time, that's all it is. I would even say, do something. Okay? And what I mean by that is, be active and be in action. The moment you're inside your head oftentimes will be inactive, right? Now if you're thinking you're active, but I want you to be interactive. So meaning the moment you have that thought, you need to cut it off by physically doing something. Whether you move to another room, whether you call someone up, whether you go out and take a walk, whether -- whatever you do, you need to break that also with physical energy. It's really important. Because that heady stuff weighs us down and we actually get cut off from the rest of our body.    Anne: Yeah. What a great piece of -- we can go home now, Lau. That was a wonderful piece of advice. (Lau laughs) Absolutely. Sometimes just getting up, taking a breath and deep breathing, getting out of the studio. I always like to pet my fur babies. Go see my hubby. Or just do something that gets you out of that, out of that funk, out of that mental -- and you're right, physical can really be a wonderful way to get yourself out of that funk. And when you get out of that funk, and you can actually start to get into the story, get into whatever it is, the dialogue, whatever it is that you are working on in your booth, magic will happen.    Lau: I love it.    Anne: I always say to people, when it's right, you feel it. You don't hear it, but you feel it. And that's where I think, every once in a while, when you get that script and you just feel it. And it's like, oh, damn. You don't know quite how it happened, but you felt that it was right. And I wanna say that's what we should always strive for, right? Just that feeling that, yeah, I hit that, that worked. And then even if you, let's say, don't get that audition or don't get that gig, be proud of the fact that you have evolved. That's such a beautiful, wonderful feeling, when you're like, oh yeah, that was good. That was really good. And you can feel proud of yourself for that.    Lau: Yes. And do a little VO feng shui, meaning do two things. I want you to think up a new idea and learn a new technique that is the implementation of the idea. So it could be something very simple like, oh, today I'm going to, oh, I wanna reach out to this company or these people. I'm gonna reach out to these people in this way. And then I have a new technique for doing that, because I'm gonna do a drip campaign. So that to me is a little feng shui of the spirit of you and your business. You don't have to do exactly the same way every day and get into a rut. You can really say, this week I wanna try something new. And I sat with Anne, I sat with another coach or whatever, and I learned a new idea, a new technique, and now I'm gonna try it.    Anne: Well, I love that you just brought it out of the booth and into your business, which is great. So getting out of your own way doesn't just mean performance-wise in your booth and acting wise; it also means in your business. So getting out of your own way in your business. And I cannot tell you, there's so many things, Lau, that a lot of people in their business don't like to do because, number one, maybe they're not familiar or they're not educated, they don't know how to do it, and so therefore they don't do anything. Or they will simply just say, oh, I can't, I just can't possibly do that. I don't either have the money or I don't have whatever the excuses are. And I've heard them all, right? And money is a big one, and I get it right, as BOSSes running a business.    Lau: Yeah.    Anne: I totally get the money thing. And we've had multiple episodes about money. But I will say is that you have to open your mind for abundance and open your mind for the fact that you need to invest that money and also save that money so you have money to reinvest in your business. And that can help you. Just that alone, money, get out of your own way. Right? Get out of your own way with money. Get out of your own way with marketing. Get out of your own way with all the things, maybe cold calling or whatever it is that can help to grow your business.    Lau: I'm feeling an Eleanor Roosevelt quote coming on (Anne laughs), and I have to release it --    Anne: I love it.    Lau: — so I don't explode.    Anne: Release it, please.    Lau: Here it is. Here it is. I just have to do it. Okay? It's like, do one thing every day that scares you.    Anne: Oh God, yes. Oh, I love that quote.    Lau: Okay. And I'm not saying, God forbid, don't jump off a building. I'm not saying that. I'm saying within the framework of who we are as talent and as business, do one thing that kicks you a little bit, to do something that's a little uncomfortable that may even really scare you and see what happens on the other end of it.    Anne: I'll tell you, that's hard. That's not an easy thing to do. And especially if you've been doing this for a long time. And there's so many, and I'm sure, Lau, you get this a lot too. I hear from a lot of students how they're, they're stuck in a rut. Or I'll do consult calls. So people will say, I, gosh, I've been in voiceover for years and I'm in this rut. I need help. And this is great because you're reaching out. Right? But when you reach out for that help, you then cannot say to me, okay, I can't do this because of this, or I can't do this because of that. Or can you give me the quick 15-minute answer? No, that's the other thing. In a 15-minute, 20-minute consult call, I can't give you the answer to all of life's issues. Or how to run your VO business. However, I can say, here's what I suggest to help you to get out of your own way.    Lau: And if anything, grab a buddy. Grab accountability buddy. Preferably someone in your business because they get what's going on. They feel it too. They're living it too.    Anne: Oh yeah.    Lau: And move through the tougher experiences together.    Anne: So powerful.    Lau: Like hold each other accountable.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: You know, have that coffee together weekly or biweekly. and say, you are gonna do this and it's a lot of money. And it's kind of scary. Well, did you do it? So let's do it together.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Sometimes we need that collab. We need that ensemble thing to get us going. I know I'm a creative, I love ensemble. I need that team oftentimes.    Anne: Yeah. Yeah.   Lau: I don't think you have to apologize for that. We're not an isolated being; we don't have to just work alone. We have wonderful people. Like you're on another whole coast, 3000 miles away, and we hold each other accountable to showing up, to giving our all, to caring about our audience, to being awake, to throwing on our lipstick. I mean, that's all hard work. It doesn't look like it is, but it is, because so many would rather lay in bed. They'd rather watch TV. They'd rather go the easy route. Go the difficult route.    Anne: Absolutely.    Lau: You know, challenge yourself; there's a lot better stuff waiting on the other side of that.    Anne: Yeah, absolutely. And I wanna come back to, again, what you said about writing things down. I'm a big believer -- I love that you said to write down the negative thoughts and then cross it out and write, like write the absolute opposite of that.    Lau: Yes.    Anne: Turn that around. And I love that because I'm the person that likes to write and cross things out as I accomplish them and get them done. So if you have those negative thoughts, write them down, cross it out, and turn that thought around. And also with anything that you've done in terms of not just negative thoughts, but in terms of accomplishments, I think writing down your accomplishments can really work wonders for helping you to gain confidence and to get out of your own way. 'Cause I think a lot of times when you get in your way, it stems from fear and it stems from a lack of confidence. And reading something that is solidly written down, an affirmation, or even like meditation every day, right, can really help to beat that negativity out of your brain.    Lau: Hmm. Oh, these are great. And I do, one thing I love that I learned from a wonderful coach that I worked with, do a brain dump. Try to do it every day if you can. It's just a five-minute sitting at your table, your desk, in your car, and I want you to write, write, write, write for five minutes, time yourself, five minutes. Don't pick the pen off the paper. Write, write, write, don't edit, don't critique. Get everything in your head out on paper. And that's gonna feng shui your head, that's gonna empty your head and leave room for focus.    Anne: I love that. Feng shui your head.    Lau: Feng shui your head.    Anne: That's a quote, Lau. Feng shui your head.    Lau: Feng shui your head.   Anne: And get out of your own way. (laughs).    Lau: Because you don't ,believe it or not, you don't have to believe everything that comes into your head. You know? We get backed up. (laughs)    Anne: And the biggest -- ‘cause I took a feng shui course, by the way, back in the day and it was one of the best things I'd ever done, is that clutter? Right? If you have clutter in your house, you have clutter in your brain. And if you have clutter in your brain, I love that. Do a brain dump so that you can then start to think clearly.    Lau: That's right.    Anne: And then start to really focus on what you need to do to get out of your own way, to make that marketing effort, to create that website, to go ahead and get that additional coaching, to audition for that job that you're scared about and out of your comfort zone. Wow. All that good stuff.    Lau: Yeah, 'cause we don't wanna hold so much in our head and be balancing all of that and then try to give output that is like high productivity. It's very hard for us to do that. We have to release certain things and get them out there that are not priority for us or that are sabotaging us. We gotta get it out. Sometimes you even just like clean your desk or rearrange something. You know?    Anne: Absolutely. Or when you come into your studio, clean your studio, or do the brain dump before you do your auditions for the day. I love that.    Lau: It’s awesome, it's awesome.    Anne: A lot of times when we're in the middle of an audition, if we're stressed out about other things that are happening, that's coming out in our voice, right? And so we really just need to (breathes), you know, do a brain dump, do a few breathing exercises to relax, and really focus on the story at hand, which is not gonna be like, I don't know, what you need to finish up or when you have to start dinner or what you have to do at home, or what's stressing you out.    Lau: Yeah. And how the things in front of you, whether they're affirmations or mantras, or you just write a little sticky note to yourself to remind yourself -- like one of my famous sticky notes that I love is that I'll just look just for a second and it'll say, you're enough.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Stop trying to be perfect. Stop trying to be too much. Stop trying to be everything to everyone. You're enough, you're enough. And it's just a quick reminder. Like we need those quick reminders when we're busy and all of that, to not overload ourselves with stressors that are not necessary. They're really concocted stressors that ultimately tear us down and get in the way of our productivity. It stops us.    Anne: And I think also when we meet people, new people, right, I feel as though, I mean, hopefully anyways, I'm a fairly good judge of people, I think. I use a lot of gut instinct and intuition, and I feel as though that personality that I meet when we meet for the first time, if I initially connect to that, that is what I think you need to get to that level in your booth or in your business. Right? That this is who you are, this is your personality. This is, and I always like to say that if your personality comes from a place of service from the heart, I really feel as though that can benefit your performance, that can benefit your business.    If you are coming from a place that doesn't have a bunch of stressors from here and there. And it's really just coming from a place of, let me service this copy. Let me be the best business, let me be the best voice that I can be, and let me network with my client to see how can I help? Instead of coming from a place of what is my talent? I'm not talented enough, or my voice isn't good enough, it needs to come, like, how can I best service my client? How can I best serve my business by bringing myself and my heart of service to it?    Lau: Hmm. Oh gosh. I just love that. That gave me tingles. I love that. That's great. I would even push that even farther. And I would say, find a moment that you can sacrifice or give of yourself in a selfless way, because we wanna be selfish. We wanna be self-centered. We wanna get, get, get. Find a moment where you can authentically give. And that is a moment that when you start doing that, it's kind of painful. But then you get used to it and you say, wow, I got so much in return. So like for instance, when I was a working talent all the time, before I became an agent and a coach, I was working talent, I would talk to people and create all sorts of relationships with casting, and they'd say, you're just not right for this, Lau. I mean, you're just… I'd say, well, right, okay.    Anne: Yeah. And then worry about it ever again.   Lau: Guess what I'd come back with? I had so much chutzpah now that I think about it. (Anne laughs) I'd come back and I'd say, you know what? That's okay. I'm gonna get you the right person. Who do you need? And they couldn't believe I said that to them. They'd be like, well we're, we're looking for this. We'll send you the breakdowns, and maybe you can find some -- I, I always, always would put in referrals.    Anne: And then when they need you, you're the first person at the top of their mind.    Lau: And the funniest part about for me was it became much more satisfaction than getting it for myself. So (laughs)   Anne: Isn't that so telling now that you're an agent?   Lau: It's telling.   Anne: And that's what you do. Right?    Lau: Yeah. It literally built a whole career for me because I started that habit.    Anne: That is so interesting because before my career in voiceover, I used to place students in internships and teach, of course. So everything for me is very telling. I coach now. And I also, I love to place my students on rosters. I love to recommend jobs to them. I love to do referrals, I love to cast. And so I feel like there's that match, right?    Lau: Yes.    Anne: When we know our students or we know our clients and we can put those two together.    Lau: That's right.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: And sometimes, and this is where you and I have spoken about, be interactive, don't be passive about it. Sometimes they're not coming to you. Like sometimes you're just observing that there are people around you that they need to know they need to meet. You know, something about your friends or your talent. Because remember in business, anytime you make a referral or recommendation, and it works out, it makes you look great.    Anne: Oh, absolutely.    Lau: Like you become --   Anne: Oh my gosh, yes.    Lau: — someone that they can't live without. Right?    Anne: Absolutely. So they trust you.   Lau: They trust you.    Anne: People buy from people they know, like, and trust.    Lau: Yes. So don't be afraid and think, oh, but I'm --   Anne: I’m giving a job away.   Lau: — myself.    Anne: I'm giving a job away.    Lau: No, no, no. Because you know what? If they really wanna work with you, they'll work with you.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: If it's not meant to be, it's not meant to be. But that doesn't mean you're out of the picture. There are many times, especially in live circumstances, where you can do introductions, you can do referrals.    Anne: Sure.    Lau: You can do this and that and just plant the seed. And they may not go for it, but a lot of times they do.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: And they go, oh my gosh, Lau, you introduced me to this person. This person's amazing. We signed a contract the other day. Do you take a percentage of that? I don't.    Anne: But Lau, you don't. But then sometimes you can.    Lau: So that's a whole job unto itself. (laughs)    Anne: Well, there you go. So look, I'm not gonna say I try to get a dollar for everything, but honestly like that when, when we're talking about the referral and the agenting and then getting other people work, when it turns out to be something profitable, it can also mean profit for you and your business. Now, I'm not saying everything should turn into that, but I mean I've had instances where I've referred clients or I've referred — and I've been offered and I'm like, no, no, no. But it has been insisted by the client that I get some sort of a fee for that. And so, and I think I am worthy. Right? That was a good referral. And both client and talent are now making money off of that or they're being fairly compensated. So I don't entirely dismiss the idea saying, oh no, no, no, no. If somebody's gonna say here, no, I am going to pay, I'm a business short. That's awesome.    Lau: Absolutely.    Anne: And how else can I help you (laughs)?    Lau: Well listen, if you get really good at that and you start doing that a lot, there's all different ways to frame that, whether you do management, whether you do fee for service, whether you do — there's all sorts a way to frame that matchmaking thing that some of us are really good at.,my point is, is like, like just give, just give. Don't worry about giving. You'll get enough back in return.    Anne: Well Karma.    Lau: Karma.    Anne: It's karma. I mean, VO BOSS was started from giving. Literally, if you remember, I tell my story over and over again. I was trying to give up my VO Peeps brand and I was gonna roll it into VO BOSS, 'cause I wanted to continue educating. I wanted this to be a resource, an educational resource for the community. And it turned out to be so much in addition to that, really.    Lau: Yeah.    Anne: Look, I got to meet you. And I mean there's just so many wonderful things that have come from the place of giving, and I really feel that every business needs to have that aspect to — which is a very popular trend these days with businesses too.    Lau: You just brought up a mouthful. The BOSSes would love to know about, without naming any names or titles of anything, you and I met doing an online panel together.    Anne: Oh, yes, we did.    Lau: But here's the thing I want the BOSSes to know. I can't speak for you, Anne, but I didn't make a penny on that.    Anne: No, I didn't. Yeah.    Lau: And that was A-Okay by me because that was education to that company and that community. And I love that. I love that. But look what came out of this.    Anne: Oh yeah, absolutely.    Lau: Look at this relationship that was built out of that.    Anne: Absolutely.    Lau: And this is the example of what we're saying, like karma.   Anne: A place of service, a place from heart.    Lau: Look at this. If we hadn't done that, if we said, look, I'm at a place in our careers, we do make money for everything we do, whatever, we wouldn't have met, we may not met.    Anne: That's true. Very true.    Lau: Isn't that amazing when you think about that.    Anne: There you go. And what a great story. What a great story to end on.    Lau: Very heartwarming.    Anne: Good stuff. BOSSes, get outta your own way. You can do it. Get rid of the clutter that stops you from being the very best you that we know you are. And we know you are the BOSSes. So, all right. Lau, thank you. It's been great.   Lau: Do your thing, thing.   Anne: Yes. It's been great. And so speaking of giving back, right? As individuals, it can be difficult to make a huge impact. But as a group, we can contribute to the growth of our communities and give back in ways that we never thought before possible. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how. And a big shout-out to my favorite sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and connect like Lau and myself like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. Guys, have a great week. We'll see you next week. Bye!   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

  Are past mistakes holding you back from achieving voice over success? Join Anne & Lau on this episode of VO BOSS, where they discuss how to turn missteps into valuable learning experiences. From investing in a voiceover demo to navigating social media mishaps, discover the importance of apologies, accountability, and self-compassion in personal and professional relationships. Learn how admitting to our mistakes can elevate connections with others and avoid the pitfalls of impulsive responses on social media. Tune in to embrace growth, mindfulness, and self-compassion on the journey towards success. Bosses, don't let past mistakes hold you back.   Transcript    It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey, hey everyone. (audio blip) VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with my BOSS co-host, Lau Lapiedes. Hey, Lau.    Lau: Hey everyone.    Anne: Yay!    Lau: So good to see you, An Happy Saturday.    Anne: Yes, Lau, happy S-- (audio blip) Lau, guess what happened to me this week?    Lau: What happened, Anne?   Anne: Lau, I made a mistake.    Lau: Oh no. You never make mistakes.    Anne: Well, no Lau, actually, I make mistakes all the time. (laughs)    Lau: Don't believe her --   Anne: (audio blip) Do. And you know what? Of course, nobody wants to make mistakes, but I'm glad I made this mistake because I learned a whole lot, Lau about how I can maybe not make that mistake again, or take (audio blip) when I was making the mistake and make it better and improve it. And I get students that come to me, new students that come to me quite a bit, that say, gosh, I wish I knew then what I know now. And I would never have done that.    I'd like to address that because let's take one example. One example is students that come to me and say, I never should have made that demo. And I had somebody listen to it and they said, no, no, you were not ready to make that demo. And they just come to me with all (audio blip) shame and remorse, and I get that, but I don't think it's worth anyone beating themselves up over, because honestly, we learn, you know, if we always take a look at what we do in life, and we learn and we made a mistake, (audio blip) so you know, so much better (laughs). And you can then progress and move forward.    And so I want all of those students who ever, ever came to me or ever came to Lau and said, oh God, I wish I hadn't have done that. I spent all this money and it was just a waste of my time. And (audio blip) don't beat yourself up over it. Because honestly, I think that there is such a value of information, just such a value in it. And consider it, like we were talking before, Lau, consider it an investment in the real grand scheme of things. (audio blip) been a few thousand dollars. But if I were to sit back and look at where have I spent a few thousand dollars in my lifetime, house, car, those kinds of things, I mean, honestly, consider an investment. Lau, what are your thoughts?    Lau: I couldn't agree (audio blip). I would even argue is there such a thing as a mistake? Because when you really think about that, we give a name and label to something that happens from us, to us, with us that is superbly uncomfortable and then (audio blip) toward us in our perception, it punishes us. But was that thing an actual mistake?    Anne: Sure.    Lau: I don't know how to answer that because I do feel there's lessons to be learned in the process of the, I'll give it air quotes, the mistake (audio blip) more painful than others, but really, really necessary as we journey through life. Like if we didn't do that, we wouldn't know what rewards really are.    Anne: Right.    Lau: We wouldn't know how to really build our business. We wouldn't really know that. Right? So comparatively speaking, (audio blip) and oftentimes as you know, when you make those mistakes, they're fantastic. Like you're hired for them, you're celebrated for them. It's like, whoops, I did that in my business. How could I have thought that? Oh my, wow. People love that. They want that. Right? (audio blip) I would venture to say, take a step back and really say what is a mistake and what are the mistakes in the mistake that make it a mistake? That's really important. But getting back to your investment on demo, I'm with you all the way. I do not (audio blip) corner and cry over a demo.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Process, process, process. Your first demo, your first demos --    Anne: Yes. We all started somewhere.    Lau: They're never gonna be super, super high level pro because guess what? You don't have the experience yet. You're moving towards getting that experience. (audio blip) Like if you went to college or grad school or trade school or you were an apprentice, you are working on working. So the working to get the working is never a waste of time. It's always, what are you putting into it? What are you getting out of it? How has that (audio blip) work for you? Rather than saying, oh, everything's got to be about that one demo. It just isn't. It's like a work in progress. Your whole life, your whole business is a work in progress.    Anne: Right? And it's very much like you don't know what you don't know. And so you cannot (audio blip) blame yourself for something that you didn't know. Now, maybe if you're just starting out and you're lucky and you're listening to our podcast, the BOSS podcast, you'll hear this discussion and you'll say, oh, okay, so maybe I'll wait a little bit before I make that demo. (audio blip) truly believe that sometimes when you make an expensive mistake, it's a mistake that you are not apt to repeat ever again or quickly. That is for sure.    I know sometimes, like I used to pay money to a personal trainer, right? Because it was the only way I knew (audio blip) go and work out right and do the things that I really needed to do to move forward and to progress forward and to really improve myself. So in a way I was like, yes, I'm gonna pay to kind of get a little beaten up. So, it's okay. It's okay. And I just don't (audio blip) into this to, to ever feel regret about anything because there's always those lessons as you mentioned that you learned. Maybe you learned about a process that did not work for you. Right?    And so now you'll move forward and you will (audio blip) to work with longer so that you can improve upon your performance before you go ahead and record another demo. And again, like I said, when it comes to demos on our performances, we're always improving. We're like those continuous students, like the never-ending student (audio blip) learning our craft and enhancing and improving it. And so at any point, you're never quite as good as you'll be today. So unless you're gonna make a demo every single day to keep yourself refreshed on that, I would say take it with a grain of salt. Take it as a lesson. And (audio blip) also maybe it was a demo that did not represent the genre very well, or it was maybe a, a demo that didn't have today's standards or current relevant scripts. Or it just might have been something (audioblip) done it and had somebody listen to it and they commented on it. Guess what? That's another learning experience. So.    Lau: And guess what? Doing a demo as one example is like a little work of art. It's a vocal portfolio.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: So there is artistic vision. There's (audio blip) no matter who you're working with, whoever your team is of engineers and coaches, some care, some don't care. Some are experts, some are not experts, and there's everything in between. It's like working with an expert painter or working with an expert dancer. There's all (audio blip) that go into unlocking your potential, unlocking your talent. Maybe they're great at that, maybe they're not great at it.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Maybe they're mediocre. Whatever the case may be, it really is on us you meaning you to put (audio blip) to your process. Because when you walk away, it's your process. It's not really theirs.    Anne: Right.    Lau: They're not gonna claim it anymore. It's your process to say, what did I do? Did I put it in time?    Anne: Sure.    Lau: Did I rehearse? Did I practice? Did I take it serious (audio blip)? Did I do all the due diligence boxes and check that off to bring out the best outcome? Or was I learning how to do that? I wasn't quite there yet. As a lot of people in school, in college, in grad school; sometimes they don't show up. Sometimes they fail tests. Some (audio blip) and they're learning how to discipline themselves, how to commit to a process and who they're identifying as a talent. What is a talent, what is a business person, what is a VO? I mean, they're learning all of that. So you gotta give your (audio blip) to learn.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: You can't be perfect. You can't know everything. There's gotta be space. And as you said, we're students over a lifetime.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: We're not just students for a first demo. We're students. And if those of us who own a business, and I know many listeners own a business, you are always learn (audio blip) that one. Just when you think you know as much as you need to know, then the whole script flips on you.    Anne: Yeah. And you know, I don't mean to make light of people's investments, so I don't want any of the BOSSes out there to think that I'm making light of a few (audio blip). But I will say that when you compare that to, you've beaten yourself up over and over and over again. And maybe it even deters you from getting into what it is that you've always wanted to do in your lifetime (audio blip) that's a higher price in a lot of ways. And I think that of course, before you make any investment in anything, not just voiceover, I think that you have to come at it with an educated point of view. You have to educate yourself as much as possible before you make that inve- (audio blip). Just, I think if we all kind of take that lesson, right, with anything, I think it at least helps us, so that we know that we've investigated what other common mistakes in voiceover.    Maybe people buy the wrong equipment, right? Or they (audio blip) doesn't suit their voice. Well, this is why you can return a lot of things. So if you made the smart investment, if you've educated yourself and purchased with a vendor that allows you to return within a certain amount of time, then you have that option. If it does not work (audio blip) that you can then return it to get your money back.    And there's always selling. I mean, I made many mistakes with my equipment, especially my travel equipment. I tell this story over and over again. I bought every new gadget that there was that was tiny and small so that (audio blip) I could have a convenient, tiny little mic. And whenever I would go, I could never get it to sound worth anything. I could not do that. And I spent so much money. But here's the deal. I spent the money, but then I was able to sell the equipment that if you (audio blip) I was then able to sell it or donate it. And so lesson learned.   Lau: Lesson learned. And there are even much more sophisticated mistakes that we think we're making. And that is in human communication. Now, I won't even say the business of it. I'll say the com- (audio blip), that's in the emails you're sending and receiving.    Anne: Oh yes.    Lau: That's in your invoicing, that's in your sales, you're building of rapport when you're live at a conference. All of that stuff has layers of nuance and layers of sophistication to it. (audio blip) if you are present and focused, when you've said something that just doesn't land right on someone. Doesn't mean you're offending them. It doesn't mean it's inappropriate. It just means you're not tracking, you're not on the same track. And how do I fix that? How do I --   Anne: Yeah.    Lau: — turn around and pivot from that. I don't believe it's a mistake, but in your perception, it feels uncomfortable. Like, why did I say that? Or why did I respond in that way? Or how come I didn't get back to them in seven days when they wanted me to get back to them in a day?    Anne: Right.    Lau: You know what I like to do, Anne? Very uncomfortable. And then I learned how to do it. Just fix it right away.    Anne: Yes.    Lau: Just like you're gonna gimme a shot at the doctor’s, you're gonna do whatever that's uncom- — just do it. Just do it. Don't hold off and think about it. Right?   Anne: And when you do it, be human about it. Something you said didn't land right. Say, for me, I'm always like, you're human. Right? I'm sorry.   Lau: Yeah.    Anne: Maybe I should have said it this way.    Lau: Yeah. And you know what? When I apologize like that, which I do a lot because I perceive that I did something wrong --   Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Oftentimes the response is, please (audio blip) sorry, Lau. You were busy and rightly so, and I'm not first on the list. And sometimes it brings out the humanity in other people, when you're, you're not lowering yourself. You're actually hiring your vibration by saying, I am a (audio blip) I'm a person that is far from perfect.    Anne: Yes.    Lau: But I'm a person that wants to connect with you authentically. So if you can understand and forgive that perception of something that wasn't done that was comfortable for you, then we can continue on. And nine times outta 10, they're not(audio blip) of it. They love you for it because if you're being real with them. You're not saying, well, I didn't know, I didn't do anything wrong. I'm taking accountability. I'm not a -- no. I want them to feel like I'm like you. I'm not better than you. I'm like you in a lot of ways. And that means (audio blip) oh.   Anne: Right.    Lau: Like what the right thing is right now. Could that be a mistake? I don't know. That's all in the perception, I think, is that a mistake or am I learning from that? Are they learning from that?    Anne Right, right.    Lau: Are we deepening the relationship and communication? I'd like to think we (audio blip) really a mistake. It's more of a mishap.    Anne: Yeah. And if there is a mistake that has been made like that, and you have offered an apology or an explanation, or your attempts to fix it did not fix it, then I think sitting back and then just trying to take a deep breath, and (audio blip) maybe that wasn't meant to be in this particular timeframe, or maybe it just wasn't meant to be. I mean, I've had relationships where I don't know what happened. I've tried to go and be human and apologize and just work (audio blip) just didn't work out.    Lau: And that's okay.    Anne: And that's okay. I mean, that's going to happen. And I think what we need to really focus on is not necessarily the fact that it happened, but how can we move forward? How can we grow? How can we feel okay? I think (audio blip) oh, I either feel bad or I feel ashamed, or I feel stupid for a lot of that type of emotional baggage and beating up, that's where I want to feel better about myself. What do we do then?    Lau: Well, I'm a big fan of express. I think expression is so, so important. It sounds a little silly to say that because our whole field is about expression, but so much of the time, especially as performers, will mask up who we really (audioblip) official thing versus say, let me quickly get in touch with how I'm really feeling, and maybe have a sounding board. So if I have a few safe people that I can talk to about it, that can sound me out quickly. Like, get me in my right mind again, so to speak. (audio blip) move on from it quickly rather than holding onto it and letting it fester. And I find solving it relieves the stress. It relieves the heaviness. Like, why did that go wrong? I was terrible. It was a -- no, let's just fix it and let me talk about it and express it to the right (audio blip) who can offer me sound advice, no pun intended. Sound advice.    Anne: Yeah, yeah. And I think also, when we're talking about perceived mistakes in either face-to-face networking or relationships, but also on social media, did I post something? Oh my gosh, that was (audio blip). I can't erase it. I can't take it back. I, I can't delete it.    Lau: Yep.    Anne: How do I backpedal, or how do I recover from that? I think that the written word, we've all been using it long enough that we have to approach that type of communication with a little bit (audio blip) forethought. Right?    Lau: Yeah.    Anne: A little more thoughtfulness before we type, before we press that enter key, just stop, take a breath. I've had to really learn to do that in the last 10 years, I would say. Because there have been times on social media where I've been triggered (audio blip) to like type something is a fast response and, and I literally have to just get up and walk away. And I find that that is the best cure for me is to get up and walk away. Take a big deep breath. And a lot of people, as you know, have chosen, they, they get off the platform for (audio blip), and I think sometimes that's a very smart thing to do in terms of before you type something that you might not feel good about later on.    Lau: Agreed.   Anne: And there are ways though too, if you have to try to type your way back into good graces, I (audio blip) ways that you can do that. But you have to be careful. And sometimes it's best to just get up and walk away. And then give it a few hours, a few days, whatever, take a breath and then go from there. Really.    Lau: I agree. I think the time that we spend beating ourselves up (audio blip) mistakes is time not well spent. It's really, if you wanna reflect, if you wanna say, I'm gonna journal about this, I'm gonna express this, and work it through, and come to something that's meaningful, something that's useful, and something that is potentially fixable, that's (audio blip) versus sitting there and stewing in, oh, I'm upset, I'm uncomfortable. It was awful. And they don't feel -- and oftentimes, here's the funny thing, you and I spoke about this recently.    Oftentimes that thing, that circumstance is turned around quicker than you think (audio blip) together again. All of a sudden they're asking you about whatever is, if it never happened, and you think, wow, did we have that conflict? Wow. Were they upset about this? Because all of a sudden they're coming to me for something else. So sometimes our perception as creatives is (audio blip) proportion. It's very histrionic, it's dramatic. It's larger than life. And someone on the other end does not perceive it that way oftentimes.    Anne: Sure. Absolutely. Absolutely.    Lau: It's much lighter and less to them. Now if they go over the top, and they're crazy in histri- (audio blip), you're noticing that you're saying, okay, there's a lesson in that this may not be the right client relationship, colleague or friend.    Anne: Sure.    Lau: Because this circumstance does not warrant that response.    Anne: And I think you bring up such a good point, especially when we are dealing with (audio blip) to us in our voiceover bubble, right?    Lau: Yes.    Anne: We have certain things that are very important to us, right? Things that like I need to hear back. When will I get paid? All of those. There's lots of those things. When in fact, a lot of times your client (audio blip) things on their plate. And so if you're not hearing back any feedback, if you're not getting paid within a certain amount of time, there are usually things that are going on that we are very unaware of. And I know that a lot of times, I'll have to even sit back and just (audio blip) -- there are some clients, believe it or not, that you think you didn't get paid and that was a mistake, and you wanna make sure that that is made right. But in reality, they have a 90-day net terms. And so really I think that it's one of those things that if you can (audio blip) and communicative, that will absolutely help anything that might lead to a mistake, or you just saying something that, or accusing that they haven't paid you and it's unjust. I think that that is something that we all need to just sit back, take a break (audio blip) and communicate.    Lau: Thank you for saying that one, Anne. That's brilliant. Don't assume the worst in people.    Anne: Yes.    Lau: Assume the best in people.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: And even if it is the worst, live in that great river that in Egypt we all love. And that's “de Nile,” a little bit in denial. Willie Wonka land and Wizard of Oz teaches us something. It's like, assume people are good. They're not evil, they're not out to get you. They're busy, they're crazy, they're forgetting, they're this or that. Now what if they are pulling something into (audio blip) what? It's okay. Forgive them, move on. It taught you something. It taught you don't work with them. That's what it taught you.    It taught you to look for signs in others that they taught you what those signs are of danger, of unsafety (audio blip) ever. God forbid, nothing serious happens to your person, if they're cheating you outta money or whatever. It's a bad thing. It's not to lessen or lighten that. And it's a terrible feeling to feel victimized in that way. But move ahead of it and say, okay, that made me feel bad (audio blip) and unethical, but what did I learn in that, that I can then install in my business, in my tactics, in my profession, and teach others so that that doesn't happen as much as possible? It happens once in a while, but we can alleviate it (audio blip) in the signs of it.    Anne: And you know what, Lau, in my over 15 years of working in voiceover, I have never not gotten paid. And so always trusting the good in people. And also, when I vet my clients, I do have a, a certain set of standards that I (audioblip) make sure that there is somebody at the other end that I'm communicating with. And it's not just a person through email that is inquired, how much will this job cost? Or can you do this job by tomorrow? Here it is. I have policies that I have in place where I demand payment upfront (audio blip) clients that are new.    And what's so interesting is when I have that in my terms of services, that I demand full payment upfront, I get it. (laughs)I've gotten paid within the first five minutes of securing a job before I've even recorded it. (audio blip) I've been very fortunate, I would say, but I also have been what I consider to be, well, I've taught myself to be savvy in terms of who my clients are, in making sure that I'm gonna be working with someone that is going to reciprocate. If I provide (audio blip) they will reciprocate and give me payment. And so thankfully and gratefully, I can say that I've not encountered any mistakes because I think I've always been open with my communication, and I think that's an important thing. And had I not been open (audio blip) communication, I would've found out right away things might be different.    Lau: And that's experience. That's time. It's being seasoned, it's experience. And it takes most people, including myself, time to work through that, learn that, (audio blip), see what the best practices are for you. See if you can be a psychologist and really listen to people, watch people, watch for cues. Focus in on it. Don't just get lost in your own head or your own services, your (audio blip). Listen, because oftentimes you can pick up these cues before something bad actually happens.    Anne: Yes.    Lau: And oftentimes the mistake is simply like, I'm just not paying attention.    Anne: Paying attention.    Lau: Yeah. Let me be honest. I could have caught that if I was really in (audio blip) with what they were saying and doing. But what I was doing was, and women are notorious for this, I was lying to myself. I was saying, oh, it'll be okay. Oh, that didn't happen. Oh, they mean this. Oh -- I was interpreting it in a whole way that it (audio blip) way, and then when the boom hit, and I said, wow, that really happened, I look back and I say, well, could I have caught that earlier? Most of the time it's yes. Most of the time it's me sugarcoating the situation. So there's that. There's that in that mis- (audioblip) to happen because I need to learn that lesson. Give people the benefit of the doubt. Be good to them, but also don't sugarcoat things too much and see them for what they are when they reveal themselves to you.    Anne: Exactly. Exactly.    Lau: Right? Oh, fantastic. We're turning into psychologists. (laughs)   Anne: Mistakes are good. Mistakes can be very good. Mistakes are learning experiences. And I think really, BOSSes out there, I think to become even better BOSSes, right, we need to make mistakes. We need to learn and we need to grow and move forward. (audio blip) else do we want for our businesses? Right?   Lau: There it is.    Anne: There it is.   Lau: You wanna learn and grow and thrive. And we have to go through that process in order to do it.   Anne: Good talk, Lau.   Lau: The best, as always.    Anne: Ah, you know, BOSS (audio blip) mission, big impact. 100 voices, one hour, $10,000. What is Anne even talking about? Oh, four times a year. By the way. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to find out more. All right. Big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You (audio blip) can connect like BOSSes, like Lau and myself. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and go ahead and make those mistakes, and we'll see you next week. Bye.   Lau: See you next week. Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Anne is joined by special guest, Ian Russell, a multi-award-winning voice actor. They discuss his career in the voice over industry, including his journey to success. They talk about the importance of social media and authenticity in character creation. He advises aspiring voiceover actors to be careful not to violate non-disclosure agreements and to use social media to support their profiles. Anne and Ian also discuss the importance of respecting specified ethnicities and the limitations of casting notices. They highlight that authenticity and believability are essential in video game casting, and that having an acting background is a serious advantage. Tune in to hear the full conversation.    Transcript   It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: All right. Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and today I am so excited to bring very special guest Ian Russell to the podcast. Hey Ian. Yay.   Ian: Hey, Anne.   Anne: welcome. For those of you BOSSes out there, we'll tell you a little bit about Ian, and then he's gonna continue on telling us about his journey, he is a, a multi-award winning, seasoned voice actor working in commercial, corporate, video games, audiobooks. His voice can be heard for companies including Coca-Cola, MasterCard, Nestle, Heineken, Club Med, Phillips, and a bunch more. He was the recipient of the One Voice Male Voice of the Year 2020 award. And also in that year, he was also best character performance. Is that correct?   Ian: Animation, yeah.   Anne: And then continuing in 2021, he won Gaming Best Performance for One Voice Awards. And in 2022, the SOVAS Outstanding International Audio Description, Museums and Cultural Sites. Wow. That is fantastic. Ian, so honored to have you here on the show to talk about your journey and your wisdom. So , let's start.   Ian: Well, good luck with that.   Anne: Well, let's start telling people about your journey. How did you get into voiceover, a little bit about yourself and how you got into voiceover.   Ian: It's a long and winding road, which is a Beatles reference, but the first ever voiceover I ever, ever did was for a radio station in Liverpool. And it was a friend of mine worked at the radio station, and they had a pre-recorded interview for Paul McCartney when he bought and set up the Liverpool Institute for Performing Arts in Liverpool. It was his old school. And rather than having a boring interview where it was just Paul McCartney and some radio guy , he asked me. I was, we were in a local acting thing together, and he asked me to be the voice of Paul McCartney's teacher.   Anne: Wow.   Ian: When Paul McCartney was a kid. So we linked the questions, you know, and it  was like, oh yes, that McCartney he was always playing around with a guitar. He'll never amount anything. So it was that kind of -- we made it funny. I didn't even know what voiceover was, but I did it anyway. And it was fun. I didn't get paid or anything. I was doing it for a mate, but I still have the magnetic cassette tape, shows how long ago it was.   Anne: Yep. There you go. .   Ian: And then 30 years go by, and I get married, and my wife's stumbling around for what she can buy me. And we, because you know --   Anne: What happened 30 years though? That was a long time.   Ian: Oh, sorry. I, I went off and got a real job. I was, I was working in sales and sales management in the northwest of England and in Belgium and Holland and in and around Oxford.   Anne: So International for sure. Yeah.   Ian: Yeah. That's a whole other story, which we could get into another time. But that would use up our 30 minutes, would be nothing left . So anyway, so my wife's like, oh, well what do I buy him for Christmas this year? And I had done a bit of sort of community theater stuff as a young man, just explained with the Paul McCartney thing. And so she found a one day introduction to voiceover.   Anne: Uh-huh.   Ian: In London. It's a place called the Show Reel. And she bought me that for Christmas 2012. It's 10 years almost to the day.   Anne: Wow. Yeah.   Ian: And then two years later, we've had the credit crunch and the bank -- I was working for a bank at the time and they were trying to offload people, and I had to reapply for my own job multiple times. And in the end I'm like, I volunteer as tribute . Let me go, you know, I'm done here. I'm older than all these young guys. I don't want to be rushing around half of the UK seeing multimillionaires coming home at night, barely seeing my kids, writing reports 'til midnight, and then doing the same rinse and repeat tomorrow. I'll have a heart attack and die. Let me go. And two years later, they eventually let me go. And so my wife's American and we said, well, what are we gonna do now? ? Well, let's sell everything and move to America. Be near my dad, says my wife. So that's what we did.   Anne: I love that. Let's do it.   Ian: And I said, well, what am I, what am I gonna do?   Anne: Let's sell everything and move.   Ian: I'll give that voiceover thing a go. And I went to the guy in London and I said, does anybody get hired for this? And he went, yeah. And I said, would anybody hire me? And he went, I don't see why not. And that was the ringing endorsement that I had to come off and start. So 2014 I started properly, I would say.   Anne: Wow. Wow. And so when you started, what was it that -- I assume you, you got coaching, you got a demo, and then you started working, and so you started working and were successful in which genres?   Ian: I think I'm a product of the internet age. You know, I live in the metaphorical middle of nowhere. And everything I do is via the internet, pretty much. So I started probably the way a lot of people start. I didn't know anybody and I didn't know anything. I had some experience, life experience that helps for sure, the sales and having done a bit of community theater and all that. But I knew no one and I knew nothing. So I started searching on the internet, and I paid money down to online casting and, and started throwing mud at the wall. And I think in that market you do a lot of explainers. You do a lot of corporate. You do a lot of e-learning, e-sort of things that, that sort of thing.   Anne: And of course in the States now, you know, that accent of yours doesn't hurt you. I had a very good friend when I started and she was hired all the time for e-learning. Because I think for us listening, and you gotta have some sort of interesting -- like an American accent is, we hear it all the time. But a British accent might be something that, oh, that makes it more interesting. And so she was high in demand for e-learning and, and those explainers and corporate things. And she was always so wonderfully like natural and conversational about it. And it was just a pleasure to listen to her all the time. And I remember thinking, gosh, I wanna aspire to be that relaxed and that friendly in my voiceovers. And so I can totally see where that just, it lends it. It's also a very large market. And so everybody kind of gets there, and it's a good, good place to start off. And I know a lot of students that I work with, they start off in corporate or e-learning.   Ian: Yeah. There's masses of it. And it's relatively easy to find.   Anne: Exactly.   Ian: You might not get the best rate, but it's relatively easy to find.   Anne: Now, you won these awards, but these awards were not for corporate or e-learning. It was for gaming and character performance. And so let's talk about, 'cause I know when people start out, they're very concerned about you know, what's my niche? Like, where do I start and how do I know what I'm good at? You evolved into becoming an award-winning voice talent in gaming and characters.   Ian: Yeah, I know.   Anne: So let's talk about that.   Ian: How does that happen?   Anne: Yeah. How does that happen?   Ian: I'm gonna say I got lucky, but we all know that that's hard work meets preparation and all of that. But in 2015, so a year after I'd started, I booked a role in a significant video game called Payday 2. And the role is utterly -- it's this South African mercenary. He speaks like that, he's Locke, his name is Locke. And I have been performing Locke for Starbury Studios for seven years now.   Anne: Oh wow.   Ian: And it was the performance of Locke that won me the video game award last year. And we're still making content. And at the end of this year, we have Payday 3 coming up.   Anne: Ooh. Get ready, BOSSes.   Ian: And so there's a lot of chatter around who's gonna be in Payday 3. You know what it's like with a lot of --   Anne: NDAs.   Ian: -- casting for voiceover. It's --   Anne: You can't tell --   Ian: -- NDAs -- Well, well, if I knew something, I'd be able to tell you, but voice over casting often happens right at the end. So nothing, I can't say anything. I don't know anything. So.   Anne: So seven years.   Ian: I'm like a mushroom.   Anne: Wow.   Ian: Yeah. So, so that was my first video game thing. And I think a lot of younger folk, they're growing up now with video games and animation and it's a very aspirational genre for people to get into. And I think I got one, and I'll keep the story very short, but Locke, the character, has his own Twitter account, which now has almost 12,000 followers.   Anne: Do you have input into that account?   Ian: It's mine.   Anne: Okay. Okay.   Ian: It's all mine.   Anne: Now, was that something that maybe was requested of you through an agent or the company or --   Ian: No.   Anne: -- you just created it? That's a very interesting marketing um   Ian: Well, it was suggested to me because I went on a charity stream as Locke for Payday, and the guys that were running it said, you might want to set up a separate account because you don't want your personal account flooded with teenage boys --   Anne: Yeah, that makes sense.   Ian: -- swearing at you. Frankly.   Anne: Yeah, yeah.   Ian: Asking you about Locke, you know, what's your favorite color, that kind of thing. So I set up a separate Twitter account for him then; that was 2017-ish. And that, that's kind of just grown from there. And I don't just use it for Locke. I use it for Locke. But I, all my video game stuff I promote on there because they're all video game players. So they're interested.   Anne: I love that I'm talking to you about this right now because I wanna know, is the content monitored at all by the game company or the people that hire you at all? Or if you were to say something that maybe wouldn't be appropriate for your character, I would imagine that that's kind of a line that you walk.   Ian: For sure, it is. I'm pretty sure there have been several occasions where I've written something, and I've had the wherewithal to go, no, don't do that. Don't say that. That would be silly . The only thing that Starbury said is, because they own the character, they own the IP of the character, that I can't monetize it for myself. I have run charity fundraisers and things like that, but if I'm gonna do anything out of the ordinary, I go through them and say, hey, I'm thinking about about this; what do you think? I don't think they've ever said, no.   Anne: That's something that's so interesting for those BOSSes out there that are thinking about getting into video games or character animation. I mean, there really becomes -- it can have a celebrity attached to it, and that becomes more than just voicing. Right? That is voicing. And then also it becomes a marketing effort. It becomes something that is outside of your voiceover persona that is of concern, I would think, for you to make sure that you're not gonna say the wrong thing or make sure you're not gonna do something that spoils any new things coming out or disturbs any NDAs.   Ian: Yeah. I just basically assume that everything I've ever done is under NDA until it's public.   Anne: That's very wise, very wise.   Ian: I really don't, you know. It's just, it's easier to do that than to go, oh, I've been cast, I can't...   Anne: I think no matter what we do, we should consider that, even doing a lot of corporate work and e-learning, it really all should be considered.   Ian: It is one of the challenges with video games, because whilst we get cast often towards the end of the process, it can be months before the game is actually shipped. And I have got the list, but I've got games coming out this year with my voice in them, and I am burning, burning up with desire to tell people because I am so excited about it. And I just can't. And it's just really, really one of the hard things, you know, that you have to bury that.   Anne: Yeah. Yeah. So you got hired for this one game, it became something --   Ian: Yes. So the thing about the Twitter was, so a little while after that I had auditioned for a role in a Warhammer game called Inquisitor Martyr for one of the -- there were only gonna be three player characters. It was one of the player characters. And I got shortlisted, and they asked me for a second audition and I did that. And then they came back and they said, okay, it's down to two people, so can you do a third audition? I'm like, I almost didn't want to know. You know, me or the other guy. And if I don't get it, I know the other guy got it. And I'm like, I was so close. But , what I did say was, look, you must make the right casting choice for your game. But please know that I have a Twitter account with 10,000 followers who are all game players. And I promote any game I'm in on that Twitter account. So I just want you to know that.   Anne: I like that.   Ian: Don't let that influence your casting decision in any way at all, but know that I've got it.   Anne: Hey, that 27 years in sales, I think it served you well. I think it served you well. That's fantastic. I love that.   Ian: So I booked that. I don't know that, that's why I would like to think it was just because of my awesome acting talent. But it taught me a lesson that you can use these things to help support your profile, particularly in a high profile thing like animation or like games. You see like the anime guys that are doing that; they're always at cons promoting themselves. And you know that the anime companies are loving that. Because that sells more anime. And the video games is the same. So.   Anne: Now would you say that your award also was something you were able to use as a marketing for more characters and more work?   Ian: I'm gonna put it the other way around. I can't draw a direct line to -- I won this award in August last year in video games, and then suddenly I get cast in a lot of games. What I think happens, this is what I think happens, a lot of casters in video games are younger people. I mean, there are older ones as well, but they're very tech savvy. And I think that you --they get their auditions in, and if you get shortlisted, and you may not know you've been shortlisted, but they're gonna create a shortlist, and I think they pop over onto Instagram or onto Twitter --   Anne: Oh yeah, absolutely.   Ian: Right?   Anne: And look at your profiles and --   Ian: They wanna, who's, who is this guy? Is he an umpti or whatever. And they see the awards and they see the interaction with a game community from my case. And they go, oh, he knows what he's doing. He's obviously done it before. You know, and you can say that til you're blue in the face in a pitch proposal, but nobody reads them, I don't think. But when they see it on Instagram or they see it on Twitter, it makes a difference.   Anne: Yeah. It's validation for them.   Ian: Yeah. It's that whole trust.   Anne: Right? That maybe they're picking somebody that has that little bit of trust. Yep. That you've got these experience.   Ian: Well, and you think how many -- as, as the game studios get bigger, how many multimillions of pounds they've got invested in a game. And it has to ship successfully, otherwise the company goes pop.   Anne: Absolutely.   Ian: That narrative story to a two or three talent generally telling the story is a big decision for them. So I do think they check. I have no evidence directly for it, but I absolutely think they check.   Anne: Especially I think as a lead character. Right? I mean, there's more responsibility than just the voicing of it, because like I said, there's a persona attached to it, that can be attached to it, and the potential for that character to be able to sell more game, new releases of games.   Ian: I kind of figure if I can help sell 10 or 20 or 30 copies of the game, I'm getting out someway towards paying my own fee.   Anne: Now -- right? Now, lemme ask you though, in terms of, let's say compensation for games, right? What are your thoughts about that? I mean, do voices for big games get paid better? There's really no royalties, residuals, like that kinda sucks.   Ian: No. It does. Yeah. If I was being paid union royalties for Payday 2, I'd be a wealthier man.   Anne: Yeah.   Ian: It's just the, that's the way it is, Anne. I don't have any control over it. So all I can do is negotiate the best fee I think I can for each individual one. But that's the other thing you've got, if you like AAA games at the top of the feeding frenzy, and they can afford to pay a great deal more. And at the bottom, you've got one guy with a 40-watt light bulb who's making a game, and he wants to get a voice in it, and he just doesn't have the budget. So you have to ask yourself then, is this a game that will further my profile? Do I want my -- you almost, you talk about the celebrity element of it. Do I want my name attached to this game?   Anne: Absolutely. Yeah.   Ian: And there are games I want attached. There are a lot of games out there that the content is marginal, should we say? Not safe for work is the phrase. . And there is no value to me as a talent in attaching my name to a game like that, because it would impact -- if I wanna be in a big AAA adventure game, I think it taints a little bit, my profile. So I, there are games that I will avoid and I will ask. There's one game I'm in and they have a safe for work version and they have a non-safe work version. And I said, uh, nothing to -- if you want this character in both versions, count me out. But they said, no, we can just write you into this one. So, they did that.   Anne: That's great. Look at that. That, you know, and that's interesting that you bring up these things that I never would've thought of, because obviously I'm not doing video games, but I love that you brought that up.   Ian: But you could, Anne.   Anne: Well, I could if I wanted to. I mean, you did it. So what made you, I'm gonna say, what made you audition for that first game? Did somebody suggest it to you? Did they say, oh, we're looking --   Ian: The Payday one? No, it was an open audition. It said South African mercenary.   Anne: And you said, oh, I can do that. Right?   Ian: Yeah, absolutely. I was so naive that I thought I could do everything.   Anne: So you said, I could do that.   Ian: Yeah, I can do that.   Anne: Okay. So I have to tell you my little story.   Ian: They cast me so great.   Anne: That's fantastic. I have to tell you my story. My story was a long time ago, like when I first started, I was on one of the pay-to-plays and they had a audition out, and they said it was for a phone system and it was for a British accent. And I thought, well, I can do that. I was naive , and I got it. And literally I worked for that company for 10 years. And it wasn't until like I actually spoke to somebody on the phone, because we had communicated, got jobs from them all the time onto this. And then it became not a cool thing to do because what accent am I doing? And it started to become that sort of a thing. Well, you're not a native. They didn't know. They said, oh my God, we thought you were native --   Ian: Oh, really?   Anne: -- British. And, and it was because I just, I didn't know any better, and I made the mistake. I didn't read that where it said they wanted native. And I said, oh, I can do that. I'll give it a shot. I'll throw my audition in. And I got it. And they employed me for a good 10 years before it was like, oh, now Anne, we just need your English. You know? Not, not your British. So, but it's so interesting that you kind of on a whim just did it. And I think that really speaks to having the confidence to kind of just put yourself out there, and even for things that you don't think you're good at, because they think when people get into this industry in the beginning, they're so concerned about, oh my God, I think I should do this, and I'm no good at character, or I'm no good at -- and I think that really, you don't really know until you try.   Ian: Well, let me share another quick story for you.   Anne: Sure.   Ian: So I auditioned for another game called Road Redemption, which is a motorcycle game. And you drive along the road and you have an iron stick and you're trying to hit other people off their motorbikes. And I auditioned with a sort of a Ray Wins, yeah. Come over, we all gonna hit you with a steel bat, you know, that sort of thing. And I thought, yeah, that'll work. And they decided that they liked my take on the character. So we got together on Skype . Who remembers Skype? And we are chatting, there's three of them, and there's me here. And they're like, what's your Australian accent like? Alright, where's that, right out of left field.   Anne: Where'd that come from?   Ian: Where'd that come from? And he said, because it's this sort of Mad Max kind of feel to the game. And they said, you know, what's your, and I said, very bad. I said, any Australian will immediately notice. You know, I can put another prawn on a barbie kind of thing. But everybody will, they will know, he's not from Australia anyway. So then we're on Skype and you hear tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. And they've sent me a line on the, in the chat. Read that in your Australian accent, whatever it was. Hey, I'm gonna hit you in me iron bar, mate, you know, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. Read that one in your Australian -- yeah, this shrimp's gonna really get you, you know, anyway. And at the end of it, they said, yeah, okay, we're gonna use you for the game. And I said, okay, do you want the Ray Winston thing or do you want this? Oh, we want the Australian thing. Okay. Well, I, like I said, they went, yeah, but Australia's such a small market for us. We're not worried about that.   Anne: We're not worried that people in Australia are gonna complain . Well, it's true.   Ian: Right. And Locke's the same thing with his South African. And where it led me to in my head was video games, even if they're sort of set in an earth-like environment, are fiction. And I think a lot of game makers now particularly, but certainly back then as well, the acting performance of the character outweighs --   Anne: Is more important.   Ian: -- the absolute accuracy of a given accent.   Anne: Very interesting. Especially now because now it's a casting thing. Are they casting a native UK or a native Australian? And I think that we are all in a spot, like are we going to audition for that? Ian: Well, with that rider of there are accent issues and there are ethnicity issues.   Anne: Yes. Absolutely.   Ian: You know, I absolutely would not put myself forward for a British SWANA or MENA or -- I can't say African American because that's American.   Anne: Yeah, no, I get, I get that.   Ian: British Black, I think.   Anne: I think if they're, if they're specifying -- yes. If they're specifying ethnicity, then I think, yeah, absolutely. It's something that we respect.   Ian: PGM, person of global majority.   Anne: Yep. Absolutely.   Ian: That's, that, that works well for me. So there are things that I just will walk past now that maybe 10 years ago would've been acceptable.   Anne: Sure. Yeah. Things have definitely changed over the past just a few years.   Ian: This could be quite controversial, but I've seen casters ask for a minority ethnicity, and then in the sides it makes reference to, I don't know, America or Great Britain or whatever. And you're like, the ethnicity of of this character does not match the character in the script that you are portraying. And I fear a little bit, what's been the motivation for that?   Anne: You know what, interestingly enough, I know that you say that that's a very inter -- I had that with an e-learning, believe it or not, they had the characters, it was a character based e-learning, and they were all different ethnicities. And mine was a mixed ethnicity, but then they said, don't perform it in any kind of accent. And so I thought, well what is that there for then? You know what I mean? And that was a few years back now. I would kind of hope that if they're specifying ethnicity, that they try really hard to get that so that there can be authentic and genuine. Yeah.   Ian: Yeah. And at the top end, some casting directors at the top of the market will challenge that sort of thing. They'll go back to the studio, they're in a strong enough position to go back to the studio and go, really? Does that work? Are you sure? And they will challenge that if you like the mass market, often the person hiring the voice and directing the voice is a part of the studio itself. So. Johnny at the back, go and get a voice actor, will you, for this character. I think a lot of that is kind of left to the voice actor to work out for themselves. If you have an any kind of an acting background, and you are auditioning for particularly indie video games, you are already streets ahead because the guys in the studios have never hired anyone before. They don't know who to hire really. It's kind of like, we'll know it when we hear it kind of thing. So if you can make a performance, if you can create a character that's believable within the universe of the game, you are already streets ahead.   Anne: It's very interesting that you bring up the casting directors for video games. And you know, it's not necessarily, I think, the talent agents of today that you think of for commercial and broadcast. For video games, you do have to make it authentic and believable. And these people may only be casting for their game, and maybe they've never cast for another game, or they don't have a lot of experience . But that's a great point. And so I think that even more so now, the marketing that you employed, having followers on Twitter, maybe putting your awards on your website so that it's out there and it's known, that definitely has an impact. Because your casting directors may or may not be as experienced as somebody who's casting like 10 commercials a day. Right? That's all they do. That they listen for voices and they cast, whereas games, they're so into their game that they know their characters, and they're listening for just that character to come alive, what they believe the character is like.   Ian: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. I had a beautiful testimonial from an indie guy, he put on Twitter, it was on Twitter, his casting notice. And he said, the character is 60 and British from the southwest of England, and he's got early signs of dementia. And he said, but there aren't many older British actors. You know, I've always found it a struggle to cast older actors. So when I wrote to him, I said, , I am 60.   Anne: I'm old. .   Ian: So anyway, so I got cast of that surprising, surprise me though. He actually cast me as a second character that he was struggling. I said to him, you said you were struggling to cast this. Have you've got anything else that you're struggling to cast? So he sent me, said, yes, I'm struggling to cast this. And he sent it to me, and I thought, I can have a go at that. So I sent it back and I said, do you mean something like this? So I didn't put it as though I was auditioning. I just said, do you mean something like this? And he went, oh great. Was that you? And I went, yes. He went, okay, yeah, you are hired.   Anne: I love it. I love it.   Ian: I booked two characters. But he said, you might just, it's a real kind of bigging myself up, but you might be, he said, the best actor I've ever auditioned.   Anne: Awesome.   Ian: And I'm like, aww.   Anne: What a wonderful, what a wonderful compliment.   Ian: Oh. That is on my Instagram. If you check -- care to go.   Anne: Yeah. There you go. . So I love that.   Ian: Oh, and I know, what did I wanted to say about, you talked about casting directors. So Bianca Shuttling, who's one of the big casting directors in LA, she goes looking on Instagram. She's very open about that. If she's not got someone in her little pool of people where she goes, she gets -- she doesn't go to agents, she goes to Instagram.   Anne: Wow, there you go.   Ian: That's where she goes.   Anne: There you go. I love that.   Ian: There, you learnt it -- you heard it third or fourth here. .   Anne: So let me say, because I really think that there's that business savvy that you have, which, BOSSes out there, do not discount the value of being business savvy and marketing savvy. Because I think that that's gonna get you opportunities that otherwise you would not already have. But I do wanna address the acting part of it because you don't just get these roles over and over again if you're not a great actor. So what do you attribute your acting prowess? Have you, just because you've been doing it for years, have you been working with coaches or what do you attribute it to?   Ian: I owe it all to my mum.   Anne: Ah, okay. Well, there you go. , I'd like to thank my mom and my .   Ian: Well, yeah. But in this case, my mom was a very prolific community actress herself.   Anne: Got it.   Ian: So my first living memory is a smell, and it's not the smell of the grease pain. It's that kind of musty damp wood smell that you get backstage in an old theater. And I have the image that follows it, but -- and I must have been maybe around two or three years old. There's no words involved in this memory. So I basically grew up --   Anne: In the theater.   Ian: -- in the backstage. Yeah. One of those things. So it was happening all around me all the time. And I did try and become a proper professional actor as a young man, but I couldn't figure out how to earn money doing it . So.   Anne: Same thing when you start off doing voice acting, right? It's kind of hard sometimes. How do I even get money? How do I even get started? Yeah.   Ian: Yeah, yeah. It took me another 27 years of sales and management --   Anne: Well, there's your overnight success. Right? And I love telling that to people. They're like, you're so successful. Like, how did you do it? And people think it's overnight, but I think obviously you've evolved so nicely into your success, and it well, well deserved.   Ian: And now it pays two -- pays me and I hired -- my wife works for me now.   Anne: There you go.   Ian: So that Christmas present 10 years ago has employed both of us now.   Anne: Yeah. So that 10 year overnight success in voiceover, I mean actually, actually it was a little less than that.   Ian: Yeah, that's interesting. Because I got my first nomination, and I was --   Anne: In 2020, right?   Ian: -- 2019, I got nominated. I didn't win anything that year, but I thought I was ahead of the curve at that point. You know, and then it all went a bit quieter after that. But the last two years, so years nine and ten, or if you count it from 2014, years seven and eight, really have my career, iIt just looks entirely different now. And it is for the people out there, the BOSSes out there, you know, if you are three, four, and five years in and you're making your way, keep going. Because it is my view that in another two or three years, if you are booking regularly, suddenly something will click, something will change, and bam, away you go.   Anne: I was just gonna ask you what's your best advice? But I'll tell you what, that was a golden nugget of wisdom right there . I think so many people, they give up so quickly, and they get their demos, and they're like, well, why am I not working? And they get so frustrated and down and yeah.   Ian: Took me three months to get my first booking. I worked for three months for nothing.   Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, Ian, it has been such a wonderful pleasure having you in here.   Ian: Are we done?   Anne: Yeah.   Ian: Already?   Anne: Well, I, I can probably talk to you for another three hours, for sure. But I appreciate you coming and sharing your journey. I think ,BOSSes out there, you can learn a lot from this wonderful gentleman. And thank you so much for being here with us today.   Ian: You're very welcome, Anne. Anytime.   Anne: I'm gonna give a great big shout out to my sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and work like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And then also I'd like to talk to you about 100 Voices Who Care. It's your chance to make a difference in the world and give back to the communities that give to you. Find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org to commit. All right, you guys, have an amazing week. Ian, thanks again, and we'll see you next week. Bye-bye.   Ian: Bye-Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Anne and Gillian discuss setting up a home studio space and the necessary equipment for it. A home studio space should have proper sound absorption, emphasizing the need for high-quality audio recording equipment and internet connections for efficiency & consistency in their work. They mention the importance of finding a quiet area with proper sound absorption to minimize noises from in & outside of your home. Anne & Gillian also discuss the importance investing in a good computer, as it is a foundational technology that helps run your voice over business. For more insight and recommendations, tune in!    Transcript    It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey guys, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and today I am excited to welcome back once again to the show audio engineer, musician, creative freelancer Gillian Pelkonen for another episode for our BOSS Audio series. Hey Gillian, how are ya?    Gillian: I am good. How are you, Anne?    Anne: I'm excellent. So I thought we had a great conversation about picking your home studio space. And I think we should expand upon that a little bit in this episode and maybe get into a little bit about the equipment that we have into the space for our home studios.    Gillian: Yeah, I think totally a necessary point at the conversation because if you didn't listen to last week's episode or whenever it was, the last BOSS audio episode, you gotta go back and catch up because we talked about finding a space in your home for your voice setup. We talked about a little bit about treatment and how to get your space sounding a little bit better, whether you're at the pro level or if you're a beginner. And then we also had the conversation of what's it like to work in a professional studio versus home studio. And now we're gonna dive into getting that home studio, what you need for it and perfecting the sound a little bit.   Anne: What you need and what you don't need necessarily, right?   Gillian: Yeah, definitely.    Anne: Especially because of your experience working in professional studios where I get overwhelmed looking at the equipment there because I'm like, ah, I'm just a voice actor and (laughs).   Gillian: I'm just a voice actor.    Anne: I'm just a voice actor. I'm not an audio engineer, but I do audio engineering. I know what I know, and I know just what I need to know for that. And I'm very happy, Gillian, to give people like you my business when I need something more from my engineering. So just a little bit backtracking on the absorption factor or the sound factor of your studios. We had talked about finding a quiet area in your home, in an area that maybe isn't near a window or open doorways or places that you can't close off from external noises. So there's external noises coming into your booth, and then we've got the noises within your booth possibly, right, that get reflected back into your microphone. So there's external and then there's internal noises that we want to protect against and have some sort of absorption. And one thing I did wanna mention, and this was a misconception that I had, is that, is there a way to 100% soundproof anything (laughs)?    Gillian: Yes. You know, it's so crazy. This is a slight tangent, and I don't know the details so it's gonna be a half story, but there is a room --   Anne: I know where you're going with this.    Gillian: There's this room where they've completely soundproofed it. And supposedly, I mean, I, I just got out --   Anne: You could go crazy in five minutes.   Gillian: You could go crazy in it. And I feel like I'm in a quiet space right now, and my Apple Watch is telling me that there's 73 decibels of sound going on.    Anne: Oh my God. You have that on your -- see, you are absolutely an audio engineer.    Gillian: I love to know.    Anne: I cannot tell you how many decibels right now on my watch, no.    Gillian: I can tell you from my watch because it's important to -- oh my gosh. We could do a whole episode on ear health and keeping your ears because that's very important.   Anne: I agree.    Gillian: Which is why I have it on there 'cause -- I wish Apple would sponsor us, 'cause I just talk about them all day. But there's a ton of ways to check and make sure that your hearing's not being damaged both by --   Anne: Oh, fantastic.    Gillian: — what you're listening to and the environment you're in. That's super interesting and really important to me, near and dear to my heart, because this is my livelihood, like your voice.    Anne: Absolutely.    Gillian: The way you care for your voice, I care for my ears. But there is a place where they completely soundproofed it and supposedly people can't stay in there for more than five minutes.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: It's so uncomfortable. It's so quiet --   Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: — you can like hear your blood moving in your body.    Anne: So I'm sorry I have to tell you about this. So a while back, my ear got perforated. I had a head cold, and I went to a doctor who wasn't the best doctor, and they said, well, we can't see in your ear because you have a buildup of wax, so we need to take care of that. And they took a syringe to clear out my ear and I said, well, that typically doesn't work for me because I've really tiny eardrums. And they're like, no, no, no, no. And so they flushed my ear out and proceeded to poke a hole in my eardrum when that happened. And it was really scary, number one, because my equilibrium just got completely thrown.    I had to sit down for like 45 minutes, and I should have, this could be a whole ‘nother episode, I should have probably sued them (laughs) because I told them not to do it.  And so, they punctured my eardrum and I know because I could taste the fluid going down my throat once the syringe went. I know it's gross. Sorry. But anyways, I will tell you about the recovery period. So when you have a hole in your eardrum, your eardrum performs many, many important functions, right? Keeping sound out and also sound in. And so when you have a hole in that (laughs), the sounds that you hear are incredibly different.    So for a good year after that happened, if not longer, I would hear wooshing sounds in my ear because it was literally fluids in my body that I could now hear. And it was like I could hear when I had sinus issues. I could hear when it was an allergy day, and it would get very loud. And this white noise I call — like it wasn't a white noise 'cause I couldn't stand it. It was like whooshing, whooshing in sounds that were constantly, I couldn't go into a room full of a lot of people talking because my brain couldn't process all of the sounds. And it made me very confused and very foggy. It was very upsetting. So for a long time, while my ear was healing, and it still hasn't completely healed, my brain had to get used to the fact that I could hear noises both from inside my body and outside my body. So it does not surprise me that if you had 100% pure quiet in a room — and by the way I think that's like miles like below the earth, that room that you go down into, and they've soundproofed it -- it makes a whole lot of sense that you would go crazy, because I was able to hear all sorts of noises, my heart beating. It was incredible.    Gillian: Uncomfortable.    Anne: It's very uncomfortable. Very unsettling.    Gillian: Yeah.    Anne: So (laughs) in terms of --   Gillian: No, you should not want to get a completely soundproofed room.    Anne: Yes. But, and that's why also they have signs in studios, shh, recording. Because you cannot possibly really 100% soundproof. Like if you're gonna run screaming down the hallway in a studio, I think still you'll be able to hear some of that sound coming through a door. Maybe not, depends on how loud, you know, you still don't wanna make any extraneous noises that you don't have to.    Gillian: Well, it is interesting because a lot of the studios that I work in, there are certain things that will really help.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: And I learned in school about the things that you do. You do floating floors, which is like the regular floor and then another one. So that --   Anne: On top of it.    Gillian: And then just basically rooms within rooms, which is what --   Anne: Oh, I was gonna say --   Gillian: — a booth is. Same thing.   Anne: A room in a room. And that's the protective like walls on the outside that protect the sounds from coming in.    Gillian: Well, they also, when they build them, it's like double paned everything. And the doors are really heavy. I mean on important rooms that need like the control room where we blast music doors are, they've gotta be like a hundred pounds of those doors just to, and solid wood to keep everything out. Even the glass, there's like double paned glass and it's slanted, like kind of like we talked, you don't want complete parallel surfaces anywhere, 'cause that just creates for reflections everywhere.    Anne: And what's interesting is that I've not had a window on any of my booths. Now I know a lot of the booths that are pre-fabricated, you can buy with a window, and it and it's cool looking and it's pretty. But when it came time to designing this particular booth, I said, oh I want a window. ‘Cause I never had a window. And Tim Tippetts said to me, do you really want a window (laughs)? He said, did you have a window in your last booth? I'm like, no. And he goes, so the window kind of brings up a whole ‘nother set of things that you have to protect against because it's a different surface. Right? It's not the same as a wall. And so it's a pane of glass so you also have to protect that. So when I was recording he said, really you need a sound panel to put over it when you record to keep all of the noise out. So I just said, you know what, I don't need a window. I really don't.    And my door, by the way, which has always been a really heavy part of my booth -- I have double doors here. So not only do I have double walls, but I have double doors, and that's to help keep noises from the outside from coming in. And now in terms of inside, I also have sound that's traveling inside this booth. My booth is probably built at a very tiny angle. It's not like a huge angle, it's not visible at all. But the walls are not completely perpendicular to one another. And also I have these panels that are the acoustic panels that are on the walls. Again, any of the sound that right now is in my booth will bounce around and get absorbed by these panels.    And I mentioned before that they're slightly offset from the wall. So like by a quarter inch maybe? I'm looking right now. They sit off the wall a quarter inch so that if it hits that wall, it has space to travel back through the back of the panel and then get stopped again before it could travel back into this microphone. And that's typically what you're trying to do is to stop the sound from reflecting and reverberating off the walls and coming back into the microphone as feedback or some sort of echo. So that's a little bit more on the absorption part. But now once we're in the studio, (laughs) and we're recording --   Gillian: Once we’re in the studio that you've built and whatever says…   Anne: — there's equipment. And of course we could probably talk about microphones all day. But I, I really think that there's other pieces of equipment that I wanna focus on today, and maybe this will even go into another episode, in regards to what's important for voice actors. I'm gonna start the conversation with your internet connection.    Gillian: Yeah. And we kind of talked about this a little bit last time. Like internet computer, without those two things, you don't have a job. You can't connect with anybody.   Anne: So true.    Gillian: I mean it's different when you're in a recording studio 'cause that's all there for you and you don't think about the fact that they have the computer, they have the recording equipment, especially since as a voice actor just standing in front of the mic, putting on the headphones. Like those are things that you think about. But we worry about that all the time, and less the internet connection, which we've had to do that and configure things to be on Zoom with people to send audio that way. But it's definitely very important. And my computer is my, I don't wanna say baby, but kind of (laughs); more important than my phone, it is the most important thing in my professional life, and I spent a ton of money on it to get the most updated one and it, it hurt.   Anne: It's an investment.   Gillian: It hurt a little bit.   Anne: (laughs) There was some physical pain when you invested --   Gillian: Emotional pain.    Anne: — but it's an investment.    Gillian: I have someone that I work with that we talk about this all the time 'cause we both have, you know, brand new Macs, iPhone. What -- I don't have the newest one, but when I upgraded I got pro Macs, the best phone. Because why would you not invest in something that you use every single day and that you use every single day for work?   Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: Like you're paying to have less trouble issues, be faster. I think that’s a worthy investment.    Anne: Well, I'm gonna go back, I'm gonna backtrack a little bit because I'm adamant about the internet. I love the internet and it's always been said that I would marry the internet if I could (laughs). Like, like Vince Surf is like one of my heroes, okay, the inventor of the internet. And so I guess my point is I have some people that say when I'm connecting to them for their sessions and I use ipDTL to connect exclusively with my students for their sessions because of the fact that it's a high quality audio connection. It allows me to hear them better so that I can direct them better. We can record our sessions. There's lots of wonderful advantages to using ipDTL. Also source connect, all the other methodologies that people use to connect to each other, to their clients and to studios, you need to have a quality internet connection.    And sometimes when I have students say, well, my connection -- yeah, well, I think we have like a 300 connection, 300 speed. Most people don't necessarily know what speed connection they are connecting to the internet. And I think that it's important for you to know as BOSSes, first of all, what speed is your internet connection? And if you have the capability of getting a gig or a faster speed, why not choose the top of the line speed for that internet connection? Because your business, not just your audio and connecting with clients, but your entire business runs on the internet and the communication. Because we are pretty much an online business. Right? And we're connecting globally to people. So why on a daily basis -- I probably am on the internet, oh goodness, 8 to 10 hours a day, possibly more.   Gillian: An embarrassing number of hours a day. (laughs)   Anne: Well, yeah, because we watch our televisions now, which are, you know, everything is fed through the internet. And so if you can get the fastest speed, absolutely, it's an investment in your company. I just say that over and over again. And as a matter of fact, when I said this before on an episode, when I moved here to my new house, I actually checked and said, what speeds are available in my area? If I cannot get fiber to my house, I will not move here. I will not move here.    You know, it's one of those things they say, oh, fiber's coming, fiber's coming. But you know, if it's years until fiber's coming, and I know how important that connection is to my business, the livelihood of my business, I actually chose where I was going to live based upon my internet speed. Because again, until I retire, guys, this is it. This is where I make my money, and I know how important it is. So, alright, I've stepped down off my soapbox for the internet, but get the fastest speed, guys. It's an investment in your business and write it off. Right? It's your business. Okay. Now Gillian onto the computer thing. So.   Gillian: Well no, no. I feel like this doesn't get, and maybe it does get talked about. I'm not hearing it, so we're talking about it (laughs), but like --   Anne: I'm rambling on and on about it. (laughs)    Gillian: Computers, XLR cables, like these are not exciting purchases. A microphone is an exciting purchase to some degree.    Anne: Well, I think they're exciting. Gillian. I'm sorry. I was gonna marry the internet, remember?    Gillian: That's true, that's true. That's true, in love with the internet. But I think that there's a ton of things that make your space great that are not flashy --   Anne: A microphone.   Gillian: Or exciting. I mean, unboxing my computer was like a spiritual experience. I loved it. It was like so awesome. I just, when I got my Apple Watch last week, I took a video of the unboxing because I was like, oh my gosh, it's so aesthetically pleasing. (laughs). I mean --   Anne: Wait, did you say that to yourself? This is so aesthetically pleasing. I love that.   Gillian: I said it in my head. Yeah, of course.    Anne: I love it. I love it.    Gillian: Everything with Apple. I made my boyfriend hover above and take the video while I unbox it and I was like, don't move.   Anne: Wait, wait. Get the lighting. Get the lighting perfect. I would do that too though. I'm such a geek about things like that. I really am.   Gillian: You only open an Apple box once. Once it's opened, it's not the same. Anyway sorry, little BOSSes; you're listening to us ramble about Apple. All of you PC lovers, I'm sorry.    Anne: Yes.    Gillian: You just will never, never understand (laughs). Or maybe you will.    Anne: Well, they have their own unboxing, so that's absolutely fine. You can get excited about -- but I know a lot of people that build their own computers, and that's exciting.    Gillian: Oh yeah. That's an activity. That's fun.    Anne: That's definitely a very cool thing to do. So your computer, again, it's part of your livelihood. Now there are people out there that say for voice acting, you don't need to have a very powerful computer, and no, you don't necessarily for the actual physical audio recording of one track perhaps. I'm gonna say that, yeah, you don't have to have a billion megabytes of RAM or, or a ton of space. But honestly, everything we do combined together along with the audio recording -- I am connecting with clients. I am looking things up on the internet, I'm researching, I am doing so many activities on that computer for my business, marketing, connecting with clients, audio recording, audio editing — why wouldn't I want it to be as optimal as it could be?   And so there might be people that are using multiple computers. Like one is just for recording my audio. That's fine. Whatever works works there for you. However, there's still -- I think Gillian and I were discussing this a little bit earlier, and we can continue this discussion about the speed of your computer, when you're recording, your audio does play a factor in the quality of what you're getting out. And you certainly don't want your computer to be an ancient piece of equipment that can't handle your interface or it keeps crashing. Like I know for a fact -- Gillian, you use Adobe products?   Gillian: I do. Yeah.    Anne: Right? I mean, just any Adobe product for me has always been a little bit of a memory hog. And so if you've got Adobe Audition running in the background and you're recording and you've got it on a kind of an older computer and you don't have a lot of RAM or you're running out of space, whatever it is, it can cause that to crash and cause many, many frustrating problems. So as good as your performance is, right, if your DAW's gonna crash time and time again…   Gillian: And there's nothing worse than being in the middle of an edit, and it crashes and you lose all of your hard work on an edit. That's happened -- I mean, not as much with ProTools. There's always like automatic save. So I'll just go back to previous version, but it's happened enough --   Anne: Or a good take. Right? You could be actually recording like, and you've got the best take of your life, and then something, you know, happens. I mean, that would suck.    Gillian: Yeah. So it's interesting because computers become important when you're doing everything off of it. Kind of like we're saying, you're sending emails, you're uploading auditions places, you are, I don't know, creating your post for social media in Premiere, you're recording, you're editing, you're -- all of these things, they take up space and why would you not — obviously don't go into debt for a computer.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: I mean, do what you want, but --   Anne: But it's an investment.    Gillian: Again, it's a worthy investment, and I think people always -- from my experience of talking with voice actors, people would be much more willing to jump to buy another microphone or another, something that's, in air quotes, fun versus, you know, really splurging on the super important things.    Anne: So true. Like a foundational technology that helps you run your business. You're absolutely right. And not to say that microphones aren't important, but again, no, you don't need like the U87 (laughs). Well, I kind of want one, but(laughs), I still am holding off on that one. But microphones like, I feel like the microphone technologies, they last a little bit longer than — you don't have to worry about updating them. It's not like you're upgrading the OS on your microphone, right?    Gillian: No.    Anne: Or upgrading the RAM, uh, microphones, they work and they just work unless you're gonna beat it up.    Gillian: They're completely different.   Anne: And pour water into it. Yeah. It's a completely different, it's a piece of hardware that…   Gillian: It's a piece of hardware. I mean five years and who knows, but five years down the line, at least for me, I'll trade in my, yeah. Mac for another Mac through Apple. That'll be great. But if you have a microphone, you can sell that at any point. If anything, it's probably gonna go up in value the longer you keep it and take care of it. And yeah, I mean, I'm kind of a U87 hater. I don't like them. I don't like them at all.    Anne: That could be another episode. I'm not sure how many people would disagree with you there.    Jilian: I think, I don't know. I don't know how much of it is just, it's a -- I mean I've used it, I've done shootouts with mics for myself for other things where you just line them all up and you sing into them. And the one that I'm using now is my favorite from a lot of mics that I've tried within my budget. My favorite mics are like $20,000 ones that I can't afford and don't need to afford, because why would I? But producers, clients, nobody's gonna know what your gear is. They just care about how you sound. And so I don't personally think that everyone needs to spend upwards of thousands of dollars on gear. I think there's really smart ways to make less expensive gear sound great when you're starting out.    But then the expensive gear is room to grow within your business, within your voiceover experience. And isn't that like something to look forward to or know that, you can resell your gear to someone who's starting off and then upgrade to something bigger, and just all of these big purchases are investments. And they are important.    Anne: And another thing that, I'm just gonna say that like equipment that you don't think about for your voiceover business, your online storefront, hello, your website. Oh my goodness, I cannot tell you how many people want to -- and I'm not saying you can't do it on your own. However, look, I worked in technology for 20 years. I did websites back when they were easy. Okay? They're not -- when you could write HDMI Notepad and it was simple. And then all of a sudden like CSS came out and I was like, I was overwhelmed. I was like, okay, no, I just know what functionality I want in the backend of my website. I'm not a graphic designer. I'm a functional person, so I know what I want, and I know what functionality I want.    And so at some point I said, okay, I am not making my own websites anymore because it is a face of my business. And so I wanna pay someone who actually does this eight hours a day, if not longer. And that's what they were trained to do. And a lot of people try to skimp on that. And I hear that constantly from voice actors. And I guess my question is, back in the day when there was more brick and mortar things, like actual studios, Gillian, you know, you go to them all the time — you used to have to front the bill for leasing once a month. If you had a store, you had to stock it with inventory so there were all these like monetary investments you would make.    And then all of a sudden when things became easy from technology and easier from technology and online, all of a sudden people think that, well, it's so easy, I can just do it and cheap out on it. It frustrates me. Like that mentality -- I understand that yes, doing anything online at home is a great business to start, but you have to still invest in it. And there's so many worthy things to invest in, and your storefront, if it's not brick and mortar, it's online. The impression you make is so, so important in order to be successful in this industry.    Gillian: And there are just ways to -- I love my website. It's very important to me. I've gotten like compliments on it that it looks really professional, and I didn't make it. I hired someone to make it for me. Obviously the content that I fill it with is mine. I do that. But I would've never been able to make the website that I have now. Both from how it looks and a functionality standpoint, I feel like people are not really using their websites in a functional way where you could, you know, manage contacts and, and communicate with people that way.    But for me, I mean, I work with voice actors, I do sessions with them. Every once in a while I will have to look someone up and the first thing I look for is a website. And if I can't find a website for someone, I kind of don't know what to do. I'm like, if I can't find you and listen to your demo right away — and if it's not easy for me, and especially like if you could get your demos online, easily downloadable for anybody in casting, anybody working at a studio that kind of gives you a leg up. It really like, it just does because you're easier to work with, you're easier to find. And I kind of know who you are. I'm like, okay, this person is a legit voice actor. Which might not be the right answer, but it's what I do.   Anne: Well, and a professional voice actor. Right? So, again, there are people who, well, you know, do I need to buy a domain? Do I need to, you know, I can do my own website right now, and I can upload my files to a pay-to-play. But honestly, when I shop and I shop a lot online, hello? Gosh, I can't remember the last time I was at a mall. Although I do love getting out and seeing people. But honestly I do a ton of online shopping. And so for me, the trust factor and the value factor has everything to do with the website. And when I first get an impression of somebody, when I go to the website, right, I can tell, oh, are they trustworthy? Are they professional?    And if you've got a website that you made and you don't do that for a living, right, it's gonna look homemade. Here's an old school thing. I always talk about business cards, right? If you walk up to somebody and they hand you a business card, which still happens these days, not as much as it used to, but then that business card was printed on a printer in your home versus something that was professionally made, you can absolutely tell the difference. Same thing with a website, right? You can absolutely tell the difference, but there's just a level. It's like a movie and a B movie, (laughs). It's like, it's absolutely a level of professionalism that comes with something that's been professionally designed.    Gillian: And unfortunately it's kind of all the aesthetic versus, and that analogy is incredible. I mean, I've never really lived in a business card world. I know (laughs), but when I was like 10, I had professionally made business cards for my babysitting business.    Anne: There you go.    Gillian: So I kind of did. And those were --   Anne: It made a difference, right?    Gillian: I, I don't know, I still have them, but I got work probably 'cause people were impressed that a 10-year-old had business cards.    Anne: Right?    Gillian: But for me, I mean I'm in my 20s, I first look at people's website, and off the bat there's just a different pro versus not pro vibe that I immediately, it just goes off in my brain. And same thing. And then if I can't find them immediately, the next thing I look for is Instagram. And if I can't find you and see that you're doing any sort of voiceover work, then I'm kind of confused. You know, if you have a great voice, I'll email you, but it's a different world.    Anne: So that's interesting. So you go Instagram, what about TikTok? At what level is TikTok or other social media channels for you?    Gillian: Um, it really is for me. I use my Instagram, it's like professional now. Everyone that I meet on a session, artists that I work with, I connect with everybody on Instagram. And that's like the way that I keep up with what people are doing and what people are up to. I personally don't really use LinkedIn. I did when I was in less creative field, but nobody that I work with uses it.    Anne: Right. But our potential clients do. That's why I'm just gonna say that for us.    Gillian: Well, yeah. I think it's different for what I do versus what you guys do. But I, I think I'll go to LinkedIn as a last resort if I can't find somebody. But for the most part, like Instagram and websites. TikTok, I don't really use for work. That's like fun for me. I would never like look for someone on TikTok or like look for voice actors on TikTok. But I do know that there's definitely --   Anne: But if there were creative voice actors, I was gonna say if there's creative voice actors that are doing something entertaining on TikTok, you'll take notes.    Gillian: Yeah. I'm also not a client. I'm coming at this from a strictly studio perspective. I do, every once in a while some voice actors will come up on my feed, or I know there's some people that I know that are like voice actors and musicians and they talk about stuff like that. Um, so I can't say that I know too much about it, but yeah, Instagram is like the thing for me that I can check if someone's legit or not.    Anne: I think the last little, I'm gonna call these the soft equipment requirements. I'm gonna talk about how before it was a voice actor, always, well I've got a face for radio, that kind of thing. I loved voice acting initially because there weren't the requirements of being on camera. I thought, well, I can act and I can be behind that microphone. However, it has evolved and times have changed. And I do believe that there's a video element and there's a face element because people wanna connect with humans. And so for us as voice actors, there are the times when we need to connect with others as humans. And a lot of times I'll have live sessions where they'll wanna connect and watch me via Zoom. I don't always have the camera on. Sometimes I will always to say hello.    For obviously my podcast, yes. I do this and I do some, if you were going to do some social media posts, I have a YouTube channel called my Teachable Moments. So the other equipment purchase that people don't necessarily think about is a good camera and good lighting. And then also I hire a video person to help me to actually create videos and edit videos. So again, it can present to my online clients. My online presence can be of a more professional nature. Again, I don't do video production, but I do know lots of people that do. So I think camera and lighting so that you can look professional. And then if you have videos that you upload, make them look professional and have people who do video editing. And so what a good conversation. And we didn't even get to the hardware yet, really.    Gillian; I know, I'm sorry, guys. There's one more --   Anne: Or the microphone or the headphones and, and all that. So that's for our next --   Gillian: Sorry, guys.   Anne: That's for our next episode.   Gillian: But I got, one more thing I got for you. It's so interesting because obviously I'm learning about the voiceover industry. I know about audio; I record it, but learning the ins and outs of the industry or what people are doing, sometimes it's confusing to me because sometimes stuff goes like against what I would think or things that I think are obvious, people aren't doing. But for voice actors, I feel like, and this is my take, you can tell me if I'm wrong, I feel like it'd be easy to be yourself on social media because anything that you do with you talking, just being yourself. It's your voice. And that's --   Anne: Uh, yes, it's true. It's so true.    Gillian: Wouldn't that make so much sense? I'm on social media a decent bit. I'm on TikTok. People are always like, this is my morning routine, this and that. All these videos with voiceover. And when I make my tos, I do voiceovers. I don't do voiceover, but you know, I'll talk in them, but really, I hear a lot of people getting hung up on like, I have to be talking about my booth or voiceover. But really anything that you're doing --   Anne: Anything you're doing.    Gillian: — using your voice is showing off your voice --   Anne: Who you are and your brand.    Gillian: Yeah. But then if, if you're being yourself, then it's kind of like sneaky, you know, it's like I'm just being myself. People are getting to know me, and they're realizing that I have a great voice and a great sound. So that's what I always think about and I don't see a lot of.   Anne: Yeah. And people buy from people they know, like, and trust. And I've always said this podcast, I have gotten so much work from this podcast. There's so many people that come up to me and say, oh my gosh, I feel like I've known you for years because I've been doing this podcast for years and, and I'm pretty much myself on this podcast. And ultimately that is a really wonderful way to get your brand out there and to have people know, like, and trust you. And then, when they do come to you, they're ready to purchase. And that just becomes a really cool thing. So yeah, guys, so this has been a great talk about the soft technologies. I don't even know what to call them. The soft technologies or the technologies that most people don't think about, right? The hardware people don't think about.   Gillian: Or just things that people don't think about that are not the --   Anne: It's not the microphone --   Gillian: — exact gear. I'm sorry, guys. We're just leading you on. I'm so sorry (laughs). But there's just not so much to say.    Anne: Next episode. All right, well, thank you, Gillian. It's been fun. We're gonna talk next time about maybe some equipment that people have been thinking about. Well, what about my headphones?   Gillian: I know.    Anne: So good stuff. So BOSSes, as individuals, it can seem difficult to make a huge impact, but as a group, we can contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never thought possible. Visit 100Voiceswhocare.org to learn how. All right. And a big shout out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and connect like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week.    Gillian: Bye.    Anne: Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Anne & Lau answer a question many have about the voice over industry: "how long will it take?" The truth is, becoming a successful voiceover artist takes time, discipline, and dedication. There is no set timeline for success, and it is important to have realistic expectations. Investing in coaching and training is essential, but it is equally important to be selective about where and how to invest. Building a recognizable brand identity and having a viable business is important. Respecting the voiceover industry as a business is crucial. Hard work, commitment, and effort increase the chances of success, but there are no shortcuts. Success is not only measured financially but also in time and commitment to your voice over business.    Transcript   It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here today with the lovely and most wonderful BOSS, co-host, Lau Lapides. Hey BOSS.    Lau: Hey BOSS. How are you?    Anne: I'm doing great. How about yourself?    Lau: I'm doing good. Feeling BOSSy today.    Anne: Today I think we should answer a very common question that is asked, I think, both of myself and you, I can imagine. And that is for people just starting out in this industry, how long will it take for me to become a voiceover artist? Or how long will I have to spend coaching or training so that I can do voiceover?    Lau: Hmm. Gotta get my calculator out for that one. So I can just do different variables, different scenarios, right?    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Variations on the theme. That's a biggie.    Anne: Is it gonna take me, okay, in three months I wanna be able to make $10,000 a month, and I want to be able to secure 20 new clients, right? So it's very hard for people when they're first starting out. Again, we had another podcast all about this, like, you don't know what you don't know yet. So how long will it take? Well, let's see. Where's my crystal ball?    Lau: (laughs) Where do you start? Where do you start?   Anne: Where’s my crystal ball? How do even I start?    Lau: Where do you start?    Anne: Boy, it depends on so many things, Lau.    Lau: Mm. There's tons of variables involved with that. That's not even possible to answer that question. One could Google and look up, okay, voiceover talent, 2023, North America, what's the average? But it's really not going to tell you what is going on in individual scenarios and situations that can cause a tremendous amount of loss and a tremendous amount of gain.    Anne: Yeah. Well, maybe let's start with how long will it take if somebody's just starting out in the industry, right?    Lau: Wait, can I do my theater moment? Can I do my like, wait, give me six months. I gotta do jazz hands. I will give you a VO career.    Anne: Woohoo!   Lau: Did you like that? Did that sound credible to anyone?    Anne: Wait, I'm sorry. I couldn't hear you. I was running fast and far away from that.   Lau: (laughs)    Anne: From that claim.    Lau: You know, I had a colleague one time, he told the greatest stories, and he said, listen, would you go to a dentist who did a weekend workshop? Or who even did a one-year certificate program to become a dentist? Would you do that? And everyone laughs at that.    Anne: Would you get your tooth drilled from that dentist? Mm.    Lau: Probably not. Probably not.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Because not just about the physical pain of it, but the idea that, how could they become a dentist in six months or one year? There's a lot to learn. There's a lot to delve into, right?    Anne: Oh my gosh, yes. Absolutely. Such a great point. And I think that's like one of the first things that I'm always saying. My gosh, we go to school for years to learn a craft. Like doctors go for eight years minimum, I think, right? Dentists as well. And maybe not even doctors and dentists. I mean, just back in the day, okay, now I'm starting to sound my age, but I had a four-year program in college that I went to for a bachelor's or a two-year program for an associate, whatever it is, right? We go to elementary school for so many years to learn all of these things.    So why is voiceover any different? Like, I'm not saying we need to spend 12 years, but in reality, we probably are continually honing our craft and spending our entire lives being a student. But why would you think it would only take two months or three months even, or even a couple of sessions before you're ready to make that demo? You have to just sit back and does that make logical sense?    Lau: I think it could only make logical sense if I am really invested in the media blitz of our society and having very quick images and sounds about being in entertainment, being in the entertainment industry, which looks to us on the outside as very fast and very polished and very rich and very quick. When we know on the inside, on the other side of it, it takes years and years oftentimes to get to that place of what you're seeing in that media image.    Anne: Sure.   Lau: So I mean, that's kind of like the collateral damage of being in this whole entertainment industry under that umbrella is that you have whole generations now that think and feel like, if I jump on TikTok or if I jump on this social media channel, I'm instantly this, I'm instantly that. It's like stir and mix, you know? Pull it off the shelf, stir and mix, and you're instantly a star.    Anne: Yeah, yeah.    Lau: We have to combat that because we know for longevity in careers, it's just never that. It's always a, an investment, a creating, a recreating, a re-envisioning throughout your life. This is a craft.    Anne: Yeah. And it doesn't happen overnight, for sure. Does not happen. If it looks easy, well, yeah, it probably took us, what if that overnight success was 40 years in the making?    Lau: Yes. We were a 40-year overnight success. You like it? (laughs)    Anne: And everybody is different. Now, of course, you might have a different story. Maybe you've been an actor all your life, and you've turned to voiceover, and you got hired because maybe you're a little bit of a celebrity, right? And people know you and they know your brand, and so you were able to lock in a big video game right away, or a national campaign. And so that is where I think people, they look at it and go, oh my gosh, I should be be able to do this. You know, if I set my goals, I should be able to do this in three months or six months. But honestly, BOSSes out there, I mean, to really be a BOSS, I think that there has to be some longevity. There has to be some due diligence. There has to be some hard work, some sweat, blood, tears, mistakes. We just had a whole podcast on mistakes -- that really make that career a possibility. And it does not typically happen in two to three months.    So with that being said, the other question is, how much is this going to cost? Well, it's going to cost, right, whatever you're going to invest in your coaching and training. And I don't mean to be impatient, but it's so many times I get people who come to me thinking that it'll cost them much less to get that demo so that they can get working and be successful as a voiceover actor. And somehow they're thinking, well, just a few hundred dollars, maybe a thousand, and I'll be good to go, and I'll be able to make some money. Lau?   Lau: I almost don't know what to say to that though. We always have to have something to say to that.   Anne: Right? We do. We do.    Lau: One of the first things I always say is, what you put into it, what you invest is exactly what you're going to get out of it. So be careful how you invest. And how much you invest and what you invest. You have to really sit down with a master plan and think, okay, maybe I don't know much. I'm in my first year. Now I'm in my third year. I know a lot more. And you have to invest and reinvest in, what are my goals per quarter? What do I want to achieve? What is achievable? What is realistic? I always joke with my clients and say, I may want to be a 22-year-old Scandinavian supermodel, but that ain't happening.    Anne: (laughs)   Lau: Can I just say? And I'm glad it's not happening, ‘cause that leaves me room to be what I can be, what I want to be, and what is possible for me.    Anne: Love it. Sure.   Lau: So I don't look at that as a limitation. I look at that as opening the door to spending the energy and time and everything that I should be investing in.    Anne: Yes.    Lau: Just because I have money and I can invest doesn't mean I should invest in that. I have to be very specific. I have to be very goal-oriented, and I have to be reasonable. I have to be realistic and pragmatic in my goal. There's a difference between a dream and a goal, right? Who is the famous person who said this? I have to look this up. A goal is just a dream with a deadline. But it's more than that. It's something that is realistic for my talent, for my skillset, for my time, for my money. It's like a whole portfolio. You sat down with a financial advisor, they're not just gonna say, hey, how much money do you have? No. They're gonna look at you and build a portfolio on who you are, what your background is, what you're capable of, what you want, and really come up with scenarios and variables that are reasonable in terms of it not being a gamble, but being an investment, a calculated risk.    Anne: Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. I feel like we say this so much, but I feel like we, we need to say it. There is an investment here. There is an investment here. It's not going to come — can you learn voiceover on YouTube? Can you learn voiceover from reading books? Can you learn voiceover from Googling? There's a lot that you can take from that. But then there's also so much more that you can garner by investing some money into a good coach. This is all about you and your voice and your acting. And so it really helps to work with someone who specializes in taking your voice and teaching you techniques and principles of acting so that you can showcase the very best for your potential clients. And so that's going to cost money.    And I always think, if you are invested enough to want to create a business selling your voice, well, you have to also understand that as a business, you respect other businesses, right? Other businesses, coaches are out there. They have to charge for their services. It's not like I can exist just on my good heart, which I do have a wonderful heart, and Lau, you too.    Lau: You do. You do.    Anne: I can't just spend my hours every day giving away voice lessons. And so there has to be some semblance of a business there. And I always have to say to myself that I need to present a good example of a voiceover business. I've got policies. If they can't make their lesson, if they don't notify me in a certain amount of time, I can't fill that spot again. So that costs me money. So there are things that need to be enforced in business, which I think as a student, right, or as somebody entering into this industry, wanting to be a business, that you also have to learn about and also respect and understand.    Lau: You said a total mouthful too, when you said, you know, respecting the businesses that are in your business. I mean, we wanna respect everyone in the world, but when we're talking about our industry, like be respectful of others’ businesses that are working alongside you, with you, and for you to help you create and grow a business. Their time is valuable. Their time is money, in essence, right? We don't like to think of it that way, but we never wanna apologize for having value monetarily. You have to have value.    Sure, you can do pro bono work. Sure, you can do projects without getting paid. Sure, you can do all of that. But it has to live alongside a paradigm of career and really building something that is viable, meaning I'm getting my return, and I'm also investing, and I'm also having some luxury of profit. And that is called building a business. And so when we come out to people, we say, oh, well, how much is this gonna be? Well, that's expensive. Well, I can't afford that. You're automatically unintentionally disrespecting that person's not just time and effort, but their education. You're paying for their history, their value --    Anne: Their experience.   Lau: -- their schooling, all the connections they have and know, their studio. I mean, on and on it goes. You are paying for that. It's not just about a product; it's about a a process. And so really just making sure people understand that. If you feel like someone is charging you too much money, that's fine. Then walk away from it and don't spend it. But just know they're basing their value off what they think their value is based in all those areas. It isn't just, oh, I'm slapping on a price tag of this. It's like I'm bringing this to the table and guess what? I'm not 20 or 30, I'm 50, I'm 60. So I'm bringing you all those years of knowledge and wisdom.   Anne: Experience. Absolutely. Absolutely. And yeah, respect the business. Respect the people that are in the business that are helping you get into the business. And also expecting things to be easy or cheap, I would say educate yourself enough about the industry to know that with anything, right, you're going to have to make an investment. I wish that there weren't people out there selling the dream, but I think you're gonna have that for just about anything, not just voiceover, right? There's gonna be, I'm gonna sell you the dream. Gosh, there were so many and there probably still are infomercials on, come to my seminar. You too can flip a house and make thousands of dollars, and you can make thousands of dollars in, in a short amount of time. So that whole selling the dream, if it seems too good to be true, typically it is.   Lau: (laughs)   Anne: And so that's something to be aware of. So how long will it take me? This is the other question, how long will it take me to get a return on my investment?    Lau: That's a really tough question to answer. It really is. And I, I just have to say to your point for people to remember --I had a colleague that gave me this really adorable sign one time from my birthday. It was like a mechanic with this old fashioned truck, and he was fixing the truck, and it said on it, good work ain't cheap and cheap work ain't good.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: And I never forgot.    Anne: Yep. I love that love.    Lau: I don't know if I have the signs still, but I never forgot that. I thought it was funny and kitchy, but it's so true. Like you get what you pay for oftentimes. You really, really do. Not always, but much of the time, that principle is really true. And to be perfectly honest with everyone and all your peeps, I'm gonna be honest with, I don't feel I can give you an answer to that question of what am I gonna make and how much time I'm gonna make it in, and when am I gonna be successful? That really is an individual's journey and choice as to how much time, effort, investment, heart, soul, blood, tears, whatever you're gonna put into this. The harder you run at it, the more you put into it, the more you focus and intensify, the more opportunities tend to come because there's that work breeds work kind of energy that you're putting into the world. Like, I'm working, I know you're this way, Anne. If someone says, are you busy? Are you bored?  Say there's no such thing. Bored is not in your vocabulary.    Anne: Never, never.    Lau: Because you're always working, you're working. Whether you're being paid or not, you're always working. And that energy, that mystical energy goes into the world, and people are attracted to that. There's an attraction to that. It's not just being busy, it's being engaged, it's being excited. It's being enthralled by things. People want to magnetically latch onto that. So I would say in order to get that success, whatever that is that you're looking for, get busy. Get busy on being busy and get engaged. And the more you're engaged, the more potential outcomes that are pleasing you are gonna happen.    Anne: Well, I think return on your investment, okay. So investment, usually when people say that to you, or they're asking you that question, when will I get a return on my investment? They're talking about their money. And in reality, what you've just wrapped all into, besides the money, is your effort. Right? And your time and what you put into it. So in reality, when you're asking me, when will I get a return on my investment? Well, I will come right back to you and say, well, how committed are you to investing your time, your energy into making this a success? And a lot of it does depend on you.    Now, if you're gonna sink a few thousand dollars into some coaching and a demo, then you expect to get a job how long after? A lot of times two people will say, all right, now that I got my demo, how long will it take for me to get my first voiceover job? And again, that really shows up into your effort in terms of how are you going to go out and get that job? Because you can have the best voice in the world, you have the best demo in the world, but if nobody knows about it, they can't hire you, and they can't pay you for it.    Lau: And aren't you and I constantly breaking down the map biology of, okay, I will answer that question with a question, which no one likes, but okay, let's break down your day. Can we break down your week? Can we look at actually what you're investing day to day and week to week? And then all of a sudden, the door opens of knowledge, and sometimes it's like what you don't wanna see of Pandora's box coming out. Like, oh, I'm only doing this. I don't have time to do this. Or this is harder for me.   Anne: Or I don't have time to do the homework. I give my students homework. And I'll be like, okay, so I saw that you were able to record a couple of pieces of copy , and I'll just say it like that. Okay. So they'll be like, well, okay, so am I ready for my demo? And I'll say, well, I noticed that you only recorded two out of your 20 pieces of copy. And so if I'm giving you too much homework, you just let me know. But I will say that you need to invest the time in doing this, and I give you homework not to make you cry or not to overwhelm you. It's to kind of get you in a discipline where you can be working.    This is what it's going to be like to be working every day. This is what it's going to take for you to record this, edit it, prep it as if you were doing an audition, and just store it in that Dropbox and name it appropriately. Right? So all of these things that I'm giving for homework are really lessons in, here's what a voiceover artist does in their day. I'm submitting an audition, I'm naming it correctly, I'm uploading it on time. And so, most of the time I'll come back and say, I really need you to put in this time. Or they'll reschedule lesson after lesson after lesson, and then it will be like six months before I see them again. And I'm like, we've lost the momentum.    Lau: That's right. And it's like, can you see the forest through the trees?    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Like is there logic to your line of, is there reasoning even to your line of thinking?    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Like one of my coaches recently, an anecdote, one of my coaches said to me, I'm frustrated because this person wants to get on the demo track and wants to do the demo and is quickly, doesn't have money, da, da, da, but is not doing the homework and is coming to the table and just using a lot of excuses as to why they could not prepare for the session.    Anne: Yeah, exactly.   Lau: And he said, said simply, he was frustrated, but he said, do they realize they're going into voiceover? Do they even know what that profession is? And I said, no, they haven't made that connection yet. It's for us to do the teaching moments and making the connection that what you're going into is extremely demanding, and very fast, and crazy hours and blah, blah, blah, all this stuff. But a lot of our clients, Anne, I think you could say the same thing, right? They're not seeing the forest through the trees where they're seeing this overview of what they think the industry is, but the weeds, getting really into the weeds of what it is the coaching is simulating, trying to simulate what a work experience might be like. So if it's hard for you to do your homework, then it'll be near impossible for you to do the auditions and jobs.    Anne: Yeah. Oh, I teach a lot of long format narration, right? So when I give homework, they are the full spots. They'll be two to four minutes, sometimes even longer if it's e-learning. And they'll say, okay, but that was a really long spot. And I'm like, well, that's the reality of it, right? And so I need to make sure that you as an actor are completely committed to that script three quarters of the way through. Three minutes in, are you still as committed as you were in the beginning? And I want you to edit that entire thing as if it were an audition. So they're like, well, do I have to edit? And I'm like, I'm kind of giving it to you all at once so that you can understand what it takes, right, to put out a job that is a four-minute job. How long will it take you to edit that? And I want you to get better at it. I want you to get faster at it.    Lau: It's a simulated journey of --   Anne: Exactly.    Lau: It's a journey that you pay for to invest so that you can go with very little to no stakes. Right? To go into a high stake situation.    Anne: Yeah. And if you're working with me, right? And you wanna know how long it will take before you can do voiceover -- I mean, if you're just gonna meet with me once a week, then that's an hour out of your week that you've spent doing voiceover. You're gonna progress an hour at a time. And if you're gonna ask me 10 weeks later, I'm like, well, you've spent exactly 10 hours with me. And in a given workday, we might work eight hours a day or 10 hours a day, or we work a 40-hour work week. You've only worked with me for 10 hours total of your lifetime, and you wanna know if you're ready for a demo. Now, does that make sense? Does that make sense?    Lau: There's no sense to it. But then again, there's no understanding of the logic of what actually goes into it. Right? Like they literally may not get just yet what goes into building a career and building voiceover. And if someone is coming to me, which I get a lot; a client saying, I'm frustrated Lau because I'm already doing an hour or two a week of this. I can't put any more time into it, this is where I have to be kind and say, um, I get that. And you're busy and you work full-time, you have — I get that. But just continually regroup. And is your vision clear, understandable, and realistic about what you're going into?    Anne: Sure. Absolutely.    Lau: Because what you're going into is going to demand that you give as much as you can to it.    Anne: Yeah. Yeah. It is the hardest thing. And I will be the first to admit, because when I worked part-time and voiceover when I was working a full-time job, a family, a full-time job, and voiceover is tough. There's so much focus that has to go into voiceover. Because remember, people, this is our business. It is. We are entrepreneurs. And unless your full-time job is your other full-time business, and it's yours, you are typically also navigating an unfamiliar world of, oh, I have my own business. I have to generate my own business. I have to market myself. I have to put on a trillion different hats. And so there's more than just getting in the studio and recording and editing. Now there is all the marketing, there's all the --I've gotta have a website. I've gotta be able to do auditions so that I can present myself with opportunities so that I can get work. So there's a lot, in addition to just doing voiceover in your booth.   Lau: We're like one man bands. One woman bands. We really are. It's like putting on hats, hats, hats, hats. You have to own a lot of hats to be in this profession, because you're always gonna be shifting your hat. Any kind of business owner, if you're a solopreneur and you work alone, you're always shifting the hats. I think also too, Anne, we're fighting against the new mantra of teaching business leaders or teaching people who wanna be BOSSes that you can work for two or three hours a week and then sit on a beach for the rest of that time. That's like this new mantra that's out there in marketing. Like make six figures, make even seven figures. Lay on that beach with your children and just work a couple hours a week.    Anne: Couple hours a day. Yeah. If that, yeah.    Lau: I'm not gonna say it's a lie. I'm not gonna say that, but I am going to say there's a slight fabrication, maybe even an embellishment in that, because I know for a fact that even the tech billionaires are working all the time. And why are they working all the time? Because people who own stuff, run stuff, and lead stuff are innovators. They're inquisitive, they're interested. Whether you like what they do or agree with it is another thing. I'm just saying, they're invested in it. Their whole life is that. Even after they sell it sometimes.    Anne: Entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs, that is the definition.    Lau: Entrepreneurs.   Anne: Of an entrepreneur, Lau.    Lau: Yeah. We have a very, very well-known furniture company in New England that has been around for ages like 40 years. And they were run by two brothers, and they were constantly on TV together, constantly. The face --   Anne: Oh, who? Do I remember them?    Lau: Jordan's Furniture.    Anne: Oh yeah. Okay.    Lau: One of the brothers sold his piece years ago. Well, guess what? We never see the brother that owns it. We only see that brother on tv. And he's constantly there. And I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, I believe he's the one who still has the shares. I mean, they sold the whole company now. They've been in business for a long time. But the point is, I still see him. He's on all the time because he's the face of the company. He's the feel of the company. He's much older now. He still does all the commercial campaigns. He could say, hey, I'll be on the beach. Good luck. Good luck. He made his money, he made millions.    Anne: That's true.    Lau: Doesn't matter. His heart and his feel as a human being is to wanna stay connected to the company, to wanna stay connected to where it's going. So my point is, is like, are we ever laying back doing nothing to build a company? No. That's false.    Anne: Yes. Yeah. My return on investment, I mean, honestly, right? Investment is so much more than money. So I want you guys to really think in terms outside of money -- blood, sweat, tears, effort, practice, and of course money when you're investing money too. But that investment falls not just in your wallet, but in your time and in your commitment. And how long will it take? I think that that really is entirely up to you, (laughs). How long will it take to get a return on investment? And will you get a return on your investment?    I wish I could guarantee people things. And I always say, honestly, if you put the work in and you're committed, and as long as I can understand what you're saying, right? There's so much out there. Do I have the voice for voiceover? We all do. We all have our own unique voice, and it's beautiful, and it's beautiful to people in different ways. And so yeah, sure. It's not about the voice, to be honest with you. It's not really about the voice.   Lau: And sometimes there's just no real rhyme or reason. You could call it fate, you could call it mystical, you could call it whatever you want, as to what jobs are coming to you. In the same day, I mean, when I do my agent work, I'll get a $400 job in perpetuity with nothing residual or whatever, and okay. And then in the same day, I'll get a $15,000 job, which doesn't take a whole lot more time to record or a whole lot more effort. It's just the nature of it is very, very different. And the usage is very different, and the client is very different. And how they came to me and us, sometimes it's just fate. And other times it's the hard work of your branding, your marketing, your staying with it year after year that your name just floats into the universe and they get it.   Anne: Sure. And it just becomes a known brand. Yeah. So how much will I make (laughs)? Will I get a return on my investment and how long? BOSSes, it's up to you. It's up to you. So, and we have all the faith that you can absolutely do it. So, ah, good conversation. Good conversation.    Lau: I love that. I love that. So empowering.    Anne: So BOSSes, here's a chance, not only to be a BOSS at your own business, but here's a chance for you to use your voice to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to commit. And a big shout-out to our favorite ipDTL sponsor. You too can connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week.    Lau: See you next week, bye.   Anne: Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

To create a successful voiceover performance, authenticity is key. This can involve using props, physicalizing the script, and infusing in personal experiences to deliver a realistic & engaging read. Anne & Lau emphasize the importance of intention, nuance, and understanding the corporate story & mission. Just as a chef must gather and prepare ingredients before cooking a delicious meal, hard work and effort are necessary before reaping the rewards.Want to improve your performance? Try taking notes, emphasizing key words, and using aids like pictures & videos, and of course, tune into VO Boss! We'll guide you through it.   Transcript   It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS Superpower series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with my amazing special guest co-host, BOSS lady Lau Lapides.    Lau: Hey, hey. Hey, Anne.    Anne: So Lau, I am very excited that it's early morning, and I have my coffee.    Lau: Me too. What would we do without it?    Anne: I know. So many people have contacted me and said, it sounds like you and I in the booth in our podcast are just sharing a cup of coffee and shooting, shooting the breeze, having a conversation,    Lau: High balling the water, which you gotta do in between the coffee.    Anne: That's right. That's right.    Lau: Just to wash the vocal folds out.    Anne: Let me share — there's my big old water bottle with the coffee.    Lau: And then I'm gonna show everyone, I think everyone already knows this about us. Watch this. We're gonna do this as well.    Anne: (laughs). I love your lipstick. Oh, so here's mine.    Lau: Wonder Twin powers activate!   Anne: Right? Wonder powers activate. So, yeah, my red. But you know what, guys? Maybe one of these days I'm gonna switch it up.    Lau: Hmm. Ooh, you should. You should.    Anne: Oh gosh.    Lau: Naked lips. Let's see what naked lips look like without the red. That would be fun.    Anne: I feel like I'm so pale. (laughs), but I feel like I'm so pale.    Lau: You are pale. But that's your beauty.    Anne: Pale without my lips. Well.   Lau: But you know what I just noticed, Anne? You know what I just noticed? Literally, I just observed this, that we just used like three props. Three props.    Anne: Oh my God.    Lau: In our world.    Anne: We totally did.    Lau: And we were talking all the way through that, as we always do. And we had no problem using the props, talking and connecting, getting our points across. And that suddenly just dawned on me, like, that's a part of our world in finding connection --    Anne: That's what we do.   Lau: — and authenticity with each other.    Anne: That's what we do in the booth. Interesting. So let's chat about this. Let's take this apart, because you know, I do this a lot when I'm trying to talk to students about being authentic and believable with the script. And I think what just throws the whole wrench into it is that we've got these words in front of us, and all of a sudden we don't know how to make them a part of us. And interestingly enough, like we just demonstrated, and BOSSes out there, you just heard it, even if you're not looking at us on YouTube, we were able to pick up objects and share ideas, and have a conversation, engage with one another, and not miss a beat. And we weren't even thinking about it. But what I want you guys to do is let's take a look at, a more in-depth look at this to kind of figure out how we can take what we do in real life and translate it into the booth to be believable and authentic. Right? Bring that real life into the booth.    Now, one thing, I think that was first and foremost, we talked about props, right? Ah, I always have my trusty lipstick or my cup of coffee, or probably most of you have one of these, a phone or even just a mouse (laughs). Like you must have something in your booth.    Lau: I mean, it's endless what we have really with us. And doesn't that make us feel comforted and taken care of? And we identify with that brush in a lot of ways. It's part of our life.    Anne: I'm bringing all my makeup out. I've even got jewelry in here, but (Lau laughs), in case I --   Lau: I think a man's gonna pop up all of a sudden. (laughs),    Anne: Gosh only knows I have tons of these, the headphones in there. So now, if you're trying to sound authentic and believable, one thing that we've covered multiple times in our podcast is there's not a perfect voice. Right? There's all sorts of imperfection in our voices, and a lot of that can translate -- I mean, not that — everybody has a beautiful, wonderful voice all on their own. You don't have to perform behind the mic, right? It just is beautiful when we're engaging. And so props can help us to bring that scene to life, right? I know I just had a really wonderful workshop with the amazing Ellen Dubin, and she was talking about video game acting, and all of it was about blocking, get up, move around, change your position. Do that, because that's gonna add that reality.    And I'm always telling people physicate behind the mic, because that's gonna make our vocals not perfect for some reason. If we sit silent and straight behind the booth, and we just read these words, hello everyone, and welcome to the VO BOSS podcast, and the BOSS Superpower series, right? So I'm just reading, but I'm not moving, that physical part of having a prop, having somebody to talk to 00 expressing, expressing with our bodies.    Lau: I love this. You know, you had me physicate. Like I have never heard anyone use that word. So I'm stuck on physicate. But yeah, I would love voice actors to take it a step farther and just Johnny Depp it out. Like take their script and go somewhere. Go to a store, go to a Starbucks, go to a library, go be in your car, and I want you to deliver that. Deliver the line as part of your universe.    Anne: What a great idea.    Lau: Yeah!   Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Right? Doesn't the booth at times sort of pen us and it becomes boxy to us in our minds where we can literally move it outside, move it, and see how it flows and works, and physicate in that environment. Like, if I'm ordering a drink or I'm getting food, or I'm sitting at a table, or I'm da da -- how would that line live within that universe versus only within the universe of the booth? I mean, ultimately, we can't do that on every script, but as part of your actor's work, it's well worth the time to do that so that you can bring that imagination back into the reality of your beliefs.    Anne: Sure.    Lau: And relive that, you know, relive those moments.    Anne: What I like is, even if, alright, let's say you've got a very dry corporate narration script, right? Maybe a company talking about their corporate responsibility, which may not be the most exciting stuff that you'll ever hear in the world. So for me, I'm always telling people, in order to kind of make it sound conversational, and it may not be written conversational at all, or authentically, or it's basically like here, this is stuff that you would typically read. You wouldn't necessarily say it out loud. You would typically just read it and then understand it as information that the company has provided to you. Take that script and put it into your own words. So you might have this long run-on line that's talking about corporate responsibility and all of these things about what we are doing to promote corporate responsibility in the workplace. And so take that, those words, and just put it into your own words.    And when you can take that sentence, which sometimes most of the time is a run-on sentence and formulate your own speech about it, or your own personal conversation about it to someone else, explain it to someone else, that's gonna give you the idea behind the melody and the point of view that you wanna take. And then all you do is, when you get in the booth, replace it with the words. But you have the intent, you have the point of view, you have the thought of, here, it's this idea, and then this idea, and then I'm gonna combine it with this idea. And then that's the finished sentence. So it's kind of allowing you to regroup the information that's presented in the sentence in a very structured way and creating it in your own authentic way.    Lau: That's right. And you have to think of your work like you're layering a cake. You have the cake; to some degree, you have the cake. Even if you're at the beginning of your career, you still have some sort of cake. It might be a demo, it might be a beginner level studio, whatever it is. But I have to layer that over time and make it more interesting. So for instance, if I were to take my pen, my trusty prop, and talk about my corporate responsibility script, I might take a note on that. Because if I'm working in corporate, I'd be writing down minutes, I'd be taking notes as I went. And that puts me in a mindset, a frame. It gives me a framework to work by that when I'm corporate -- and this is just my choice, it's not the right choice, it's just my choice — when I'm corporate, I always tend to write a few notes. I tend to take a moment to write things down. That changes my sound, it changes my pace, it changes everything.    Anne: So that physical action of writing something down — also, the fact is, is what would you write down? Right? If you had that big, long run on sentence, right? What are the notes that you would take? Right? Typically, those notes are the most important parts of the sentence, right? Those are the notes that you as an actor want to probably linger on a little longer. So when we talk about being authentic, and Lau, and I, when we're speaking, our pacing isn't the same. Sometimes I, I pause, like I just did, and sometimes my words are longer. And usually the ones that are are longer the ones I want her to hear more. And so when you're creating those notes, right, you're creating, this is an important point that I wanna express to someone. So that word can be a little bit longer than maybe the word the (laughs) or the word at the beginning. At the, at the, or just tiny little words that connect. Beginning is an important word. So at the beginning, notice how at the becomes almost like a, I don't know, a 16th note in melody if I was speaking vocally, but in the beginning, beginning is an important word, so I'm gonna linger on that.    Lau: We can emphasize, you need to linger on that, right? If every word is the same, and every word is important, nothing's important. (laughs).   Anne: Right? It sounds monotonous and robotic.    Lau: Like what's important if every word is important, right?    Anne: Right.    Lau: But if I take that pen -- and to me this is a corporate moment or a business moment, or whatever you wanna call it-- I think maybe I'm gonna do bullets, how I would do in my life. I’d take a sentence, I'd take a thought, and I'd pull a word or two out of it that are my emphasis words, my bullets, and do like little bullets. and say, wow, out of that sentence, I got coffee. That was the word of the day for me, coffee as a bullet. So that when I go back and I review that for my speaking, I can remember, I can mark that coffee, that the word coffee or the name of the coffee is really an emphasis for me.    Anne: Sure. Absolutely.    Lau: This helps me with that. Like, because then I'm gonna say coffee, like Starbucks coffee.    Anne: Right.    Lau: And I'm gonna use this.    Anne: And the other thing too that I think is super important to remember is that we talked about you taking the script and going out into the real world with it, right, and start practicing with it and playing off of maybe someone else. Notice how you said, well, let's play off of someone else. I mean, when we started this podcast, you and I were talking to one another. We were engaging with one another.    Lau: Yep.    Anne: Well, when we're sitting here in our studios behind the mic with a script, you cannot be alone (laughs) just saying. In your head, you must be the person that is speaking. And you must also have your imaginary friend that you are speaking to. And so you want to make sure that you are engaging with that audience member or that listener. And so you must talk to them, and they will have reactions for you or questions or comments. Right? And you cannot just start talking to them like, oh gosh, have you ever had a friend, Lau, that you can't get a word on edgewise? Like, and it's basically all about yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, ya. It's all about them. Right? All about their monologue.    And so when you're behind the mic, don't let it be all about your monologue. Let it be about you engaging with your listener and allowing that listener a beat to acknowledge, to respond, to have a question, whatever that is. And I'm not talking about you have to time things, but that's an imaginary beat where I've said something, and now Lau, I'm looking for you to respond, right? You just shook your head, right? You just went, mm-hmm. So that's where I think we need to also invite that into our script, right? And invite that real life into our script.    Lau: You have to do it. It's so important. And have cheaters if you have trouble reaching that at times. Like in our daily life, we're not always great conversationalists, or we're not always in the mood for a talk or whatever. So you have to have those cheaters, whether you're talking to your kid or your dog, or a photo or a video or something that stimulates you into thinking, this is part of my daily experience. This is part of a reality of my life that I can connect to right now, that I can make real. Because I may not be in the mood or in the mindset every single day to connect to that particular audition or to connect to that particular product.    Anne: What I love is like literally like now that I've sat here, and I'm taking notice and, and BOSSes out there, really, let's watch the YouTube video on this, because I was just watching you, Lau, and everything you said, you had your hands, everything you said, and I was responding. I was shaking my head, I was going, mm-hmm. So that's the parts that you have to play in your script. And believe it or not, even in a mundane medical narration script or in a telephone prompt, believe it or not -- I'm always imagining, here I am and I'm talking to the listener and they've got their thoughts about me (laughs). Because maybe they don't wanna listen to an automated attendant. Maybe they're angry, maybe they're frustrated. But yet I will still talk to them with a tone where I'm like, I know you're frustrated. I know that you don't wanna listen to my voice, but let me help you. Okay? And so that point of view, that intention — all of a sudden, I'm speaking about intentions so much lately -- I think that intention, before you even approach voicing or opening your mouth, I think your intention is so very important.    Lau: So very important. And you know, in the script, in this context, it would be an actor's intention because you're in a false reality. You're not in your real reality; you're in this technical reality.    Anne: Sure.    Lau: But then you have intentions or purpose, or whatever you call it in your daily life and thinking about, wow, how much do I care about things? How much do I connect? How much do I try to make action happen and go well? Well, I have to bring that intention into the booth. I have to bring that into the booth. And I think if we were honest, we would say, in our daily life, half the stuff we do is crap. It's like chores. It's like, I have to go to the dump because I have --   Anne: I don't want to go to the dump.   Lau: -- bring my trash. Right? (Anne laughs). But how do I have a joyous life still being able to go to the dump? Well, I keep the intention alive that it's not about me hating to go to the dump. It's about me wanting to have a clean and wonderful household.    Anne: Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely.    Lau: That's really what it is. So it's the same with the script. if I have a disdain or I have a dislike for the delivery or for the language, or for the content --   Anne: Or the message, maybe. Right? Yeah.    Lau: — then I'm skirting the intent. What's the intent? Oh, the intent is to get you to understand how this new product worked, or, or how the new program is gonna help your lifestyle. That's really what it is. It's like a, in acting, we call this the super intention, the super objective.    Anne: Maybe this is the wrong way to phrase it, but I think intention can change throughout the script. So you don't come at the script in the first couple of sentences with a particular intention and it stays that same intention. Because a lot of times, right, we're there to tell a story. And so intention point of view changes along with the storyline. And if you're not necessarily reading that, right, or understanding that, then you're not doing a good job at telling the story. Lau, at the beginning when we were talking about coffee, I was like, oh, thank God, coffee. I was, was that sense of relief. And then we started talking about, well, my lipstick, I get excited, right?    Lau: Yeah.    Anne: So I have a different, and it may not be an extreme change in my emotion, but I talked about my lipstick. I'm like, it made me smile. Right? And so that was a different intention. And as we flowed with the conversation, our point of view changed. Our intention changed to help us to go along and flow with the storyline.    Lau: Yeah, exactly. And I think that if you BOSSes listening in can have fun, you know, treat it like a board game, have fun with your actor friend, or your accountability buddy, or even with your husband — have fun and take a few minutes and say, okay, what are all the things I'm using in my world here that can be helpful to the delivery of the read? But, oh, wait a second. What's the intention? What's the intention of this? Why do I take a moment and put this on? There's a reason for it, there's a purpose for it, whatever that is. Why do I pick up my water bottle and drink it? Sure, it makes me feel good and it's delicious. But the intention is what, to hydrate.    Anne: To be healthy.    Lau: To to be healthy, right? Why do I drink my coffee cup if I'm delivering a script, right? It's not just for Anne to see that I'm drinking coffee. It's for me to feel energized, to feel warm, to feel connected. Coffee's a big psychological connector for a lot of people. Right?    Anne: And notice all of the emotions that go along with that. I mean, that is something to really think about. I think that, you know, I'm always telling my students that there's a purpose for every word. Even if you don't agree with all of the words that are there, there's a purpose for them being on the paper. Somebody somewhere at some point thought about what they wanted to communicate, and all of those words have meaning. So to just read through them as if they didn't have meaning or any point of view, I think is a disservice. It's a disservice to the copy. It's a disservice to the story that you're telling. And so, no matter how nuanced it is, right? You don't have to be like, oh my God, I'm so happy! And then, oh, I'm very, very -- you know, it doesn't have to be that to be dramatic. Nothing has to be dramatic. As a matter of fact, the more nuanced you are, I think, the more you, you can really connect. And the people that are listening, they'll get that. And sometimes I feel like nuances mean more. I really believe that.   Lau: Nuances are life.    Anne: Yeah, exactly.    Lau: Right?   Anne: And it can really, really have meaning. And so I say look for the meaning in the point of view. And the point of view to me is synonymous with bringing yourself to the copy. Bringing an emotion to the copy that is reflective of how you feel the company would like to bring that emotion out to the potential client.    Lau: Anne, hold on one second. Hold on. I'm coughing. (laughs).    Anne: All right, no problem.    Lau: I love nuances though. I wanna say something about that. My intention (laughs).    Anne: Now see, there's a real world moment there where Lau is actually having a little bit of a coughing spell and(laughs), see, and I've reacted to it. Show a little bit of concern.   Lau: I don’t mind if you show that too, Anne; I don't mind if you keep that in, because the intention sometimes changes with the same item. So we don't have to stay static on our intentions, is exactly what you saying. The nuance of being hydrated is important. We do it and we know it's important. But see how my intention changed? I had to get myself out of the coughing fit by dealing with the vocal folds quickly so that I could continue the conversation. So it deepened, the stakes got higher. It became much more important that I drank the water.    Anne: Oh yeah. Absolutely.    Lau: So the prop in itself changes. It changes, the intention gets deeper. You change it. You have the power, you have the superpower to take your environment and have it utilize it in your favor to solve your problem or to fill your need.    Anne: And I think also -- so it goes beyond just like a surface — here are some words on a piece of paper. Let me read them and let me try to figure out what this company is saying. Like what we've done is we've actually brought in so many components of our real world experiences to help us to tell this story better. And I think it warrants, BOSSes, it warrants a little bit of time from you before you run in your studio and do your audition. I say this all the time, I feel like there's this, I don't know, a long time ago, there was like, somebody said, you must do this many auditions in a day. And all of a sudden we become like, I must get 60 auditions out a day in order to be successful in voiceover.    And in reality, like getting 60 auditions out a day probably does nothing for your performance in terms of, if you're just so intent on rushing through them, and you're not thinking about what's the story? How am I going to bring this to life? And I believe it takes a few minutes of your time -- not a ton. You don't have to spend hours breaking apart a script. But you do need to spend a few minutes really kind of reading, rereading, trying to find out what is the true message. And again, I'm always saying, sometimes we will get auditions, and I'll be like, I have no idea what this is even talking about. Now when that happens, that means that Anne has to look at the script again and again, and really try to read those words. Do my Google, Anne GanGoogle, do my Google to find out what I can, if the product is listed or the company is listed, or even any phrase that seems like it might be a tagline, Google it. God, we are so lucky, right, to have that?   Lau: So lucky.    Anne: And to just try to understand what is the story? Because again, somebody was paid probably a good deal of money to sit down and write that story. And you just may not be privy to what product it is or what company it is. But you have to understand what that story is. And I think a lot of times, it's probably purposely vague because they wanna see who the actors are. (laughs). They wanna see who can bring those words alive and tell the story. And that requires our imagination. And every time I ask somebody to think about corporate and what's your moment before when you're gonna do this corporate responsibility -- everybody's like, what? Like, what do you mean? What's my moment before? Why would I ever say this?    And you really must, because to somebody at that company, it's their heart. Like they're responsible, like their corporate responsibility is, this is their purpose. This is something probably that came very deep within, or I wanna say this, I mean, unless you're an evil company, right? I mean, but (laughs) for most companies, like my company mission, my company purpose, come from a very deep, deep within my soul because I formed that company because I believe that I had a product that would help someone. And that's what I like to believe about all corporate scripts. And that helps me, by the way, to get into a purposeful and positive mind frame, to be able to voice just about any corporate script. Because that's how I, I assume every founder or owner of a company must feel at some point like, I'm gonna form this company 'cause I have this great idea. This is gonna help people. And yeah, of course, maybe I can make some money too off of it. But I like to always consider the heart mission of a company or a product that.   Lau: Love that. Because it's so easy to flatten out and just perfunctory-ize -- I think I just made up a new word. Perfunctory-ize, meaning just not come with any sense of joy, energy or imagination to something that you don't care about or you don't know about. But to understand, and this is to me the true empathy factor of nuance. Like to me, the more nuanced person -- like you're a tremendously nuanced person because you have a depth of understanding and knowledge and empathy --   Anne: Empathy is huge.    Lau: — and what someone else is going through and living through.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: And you don't have to necessarily know or have experienced it yourself. You just have the knowledge and the history behind you to know it is a truth. It is their truth. And so I have to take a little bit of time to find intention to represent their truth. And that's nuance right there.    Anne: Yeah. Yeah. I feel that. If somebody asked me what's the most important component as a voice actor that you can have? Or what's the most important thing to think about as a voice actor to be authentic and believable and real when you're voicing a script? I would say empathy. And empathy toward your listener. Who is your listener? What are their joys? What are their pains? How can you help them? And how can what you're saying make them feel better, look better, I don't know, make more money, make them healthier — whatever it is, come from a place of service?I just really believe that empathy is the one word that everybody should just have in their back pocket for a great read.    Lau: Well, the more you give the more you do get. And sometimes the get is really like this inner true feeling, whatever that feeling is, that you then connect to the experience. And so you can bring that back to the experience. And so that's why I believe, you know, as actors and as vocal actors, we get addicted to the work, because we get addicted to the feeling of that authentic getting back. So the more we give, the more we potentially can get back. But we have to give true and authentic intention. And if we don't, then it's flat and it's kind of boring, and we fizzle out quickly; we get exhausted.    Anne: Sure, sure.    Lau: It's actually depleting.    Anne: And I think, you know how I can always tell I have, I have a really great read is when I feel it. When I feel it.   Lau: When you feel it. Right.    Anne: But I feel it.    Lau: Right.    Anne: Because sometimes things just happen and it's just like, I don't know how that happened, but it just did.    Lau: It just did.    Anne: It was amazing. Right?   Lau: That's the magic.    Anne: That's the magic. And I wish that I had that for every single read that I do. And I think that as an actor is what I try to achieve, right --   Lau: Yeah.    Anne: — is the feel it felt right. It felt good, it felt authentic and it felt believable. So I always try to tell people to just feel and not listen. And it's so hard to not listen because I think from a very young age, when I got behind the mic and all of a sudden my voice was amplified from that mic, right? Then I felt like, ooh, now I have to sound even better. And interestingly enough, that's not what we're looking for. We're looking for just the you that is amplified louder by a device that sits in front of you on a day-to-day basis. We're really just looking to connect with you.    Lau: That's right. And I, I would say be careful of chasing the high. 'Cause a lot of people come in and whether it's the money or the feeling of excitement or whatever — don't get addicted to chasing the high or the dopamine kick. Just know it will be there at times for you. But you gotta like -- think of my analogy of like, you gotta take the trash to the dump. There's a lot of work, there's a lot of groundwork that happens in order for you to come back to the clean home and go, ooh, smells fresh. And I'm feeling good. So you can't get one without the other. You can't get the reward without the real work put in.    Anne: Absolutely. What a great analogy, Lau. Like honestly, like we could just, just all go home now. Like take it to the dump (Lau laughs). BOSSes, take it to the dump, then come back.   Lau: Take it to the dump.   Anne: Take it to the dump and come back refreshed. I love it. Lau, what a really cool discussion. Thank you so much.    Lau: My pleasure.    Anne: BOSSes as individuals, you know, sometimes it can seem difficult to make a huge impact, but of course we've been talking with Lau today and how we can make an impact. Well, if you ever wished that you could make more of an impact with your communities in ways that you never before thought possible, find out at 100voiceswhocare.org. And thank you so much to ipDTL that allows Lau and I to connect and have these amazing conversations. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Are you looking to create a standout voiceover demo? Look no further! Anne and Lau provide insights into the process, emphasizing the importance of custom-written copy, a team approach, and a unique story. They explore the significance of target marketing your demo for different types of work and also discuss the ideal length for different types of demos and the value of breaking them into individual segments on your website for easy navigation. They also discuss the importance of keeping demos contemporary and relevant to current trends and emphasize the need for a strong opening and a range of styles throughout your demo. Interested in learning more? Don't miss this episode...   Transcript    It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I have with me my very special guest co-host Lau Lapides.    Lau: Hey Anne.    Anne: Hey Lau. How are you?    Lau: I'm awesome. Great to be back.    Anne: Ah, it's good to have you back Lau.    Lau: Okay, here's the situation. Ready? Here we go. You just bought a car, and you're picking it up for the first time. They even sprayed that new car smell. And it's shining and gorgeous. Had a little bow on top. Give me a moment of pre-life. Like what's the exclamation you make before you speak?    Anne: (screams) Oh my God, I'm so excited! I can't wait to get my car today!    Lau: Oh, and I would do this. I would go, ooooh, I'm so excited. I can't wait to get my car today.    Anne: I think it was important. I had some good physicality back there behind my mic here.    Lau: We both did. We both were like exploding.    Anne: So what is that, BOSSes? What are we talking about? Mmm?   Lau: Mmm, I think that's improv city right there. Improv.    Anne: Improv. So, so important to everything we do. I'm gonna say so important because, it really helps us. Would you say Lau, 90%, if not more, of casting specs are calling for believable, authentic, real? And I think honestly, in order for us to be real (laughs), improv is so very important to be able to create what's happening in the scene, your reaction, your emotion. I mean, that's really what makes us stand out from all the other people auditioning. Right?    Lau: Right. I mean, speakers in the larger world outside of our industry, call it impromptu speaking, being able to think off the cuff, think on your feet, being able to think on the fly. Every time you hear someone say that, we know it's a tough skill for people. We know it's not a natural ability for most people to be under these unnatural circumstances and just think on the fly. Right? But it's a great tool, right, for voiceover talent to be able to do that.    Anne: And you need it for everything. Guys, I don't want you to think that this is just for, I don't know, video games or character animation. You need improv for everything you do, including medical narration. Just saying. I’m like the biggest proponent of being in the scene, because we are so used to -- I think, those of you that just got into voiceover and you don't necessarily have acting experience — we're so used to picking up a piece of paper with words and reading the words out loud, and listen to what I just said. We're used to taking a look at the piece of paper and reading the words out loud. And that's what you don't wanna do, right, as a voiceover actor. You want to be in a scene. You want to sound as if you are there and speaking authentically and naturally and believably.    And so you can't just pick up a piece of paper with words that you've never seen before and just read them from left to right. You always have to put yourself in a scene. And that includes -- gosh, when I'm doing telephony script, and I'm saying thank you for calling. Like I put myself in a scene. I want people to really feel as though I'm thankful that they've called me (laughs). And improv helps me do that.    Lau: Yes. And you know, a lot of times people will say to me, but Lau, I don't get it. Like, I can't improv as a voiceover talent. Everything is scripted. They're never gonna ask me to improv when I'm auditioning or when I'm doing a gig. So why do I need to know this? I say, well, wait a second. What about all your prep time? You and I were just talking about this, Anne, how important it is to think of yourselves as an actor. You're a voice actor; you're acting a role. So when you're acting, you have to have technique, tools and technique to call upon to find your character development. How do I find that? So improvisation is a tool that helps us find the authentic, true character, sound, connection, quality, tones. It helps us find that. And then once we find it, we can pull it out like just outta your toolbox. You can pull it out whenever you wanna use it. And just that exercise we just did right now, the pre-life of exclamation, just that can potentially book you a gig.    Anne: Oh gosh, yes. And it's so interesting because I tell my students all the time, I'm like, okay, what's your moment before? Right? And I could be referencing a script that is the driest corporate narration script in the world. And it makes no sense because in the real world, I would never say these words. And that's what I constantly get from -- I would never say these words in the real world. But okay, we're not in the real world. Okay? We're acting. And we need to create the world in which those words would sound natural. And even if they're not written naturally, you have to create the scene.    And that I think, is so important. You're not preparing the script to sound a particular way. You can read the specs, and they're like, oh, we want youthful, millennial, or maybe sound with gravitas. Stop preparing that sound. What you need to do is to prepare the character, prepare the scene, prepare what's happening that's going to make you react, right, in such a way. that might portray those characteristics that are being called out. And I have so many students that get frustrated. I'll say, what's your moment before? And they'll be like, uh, I have no clue. Like, doesn't say anything in the script. Guess what, guys? Here's where you got — your imagination comes into play, right?    Lau: Yes.    Anne: So important. The imagination in developing a scene, develop a scene that makes sense to you.    Lau: Yes. And improv is an acting tool. It's an actor technique. And it's very challenging to do improv and be lazy. Like you can't be lazy and do improv well, because you're talking imagination. It has to kick in and connect. And oftentimes that requires energy, focus and speed in order to do that. And it's hard to do it if you're not engaged, if you're tired, if you're lazy, if you're disconnected. We oftentimes will get feedback for an actor from like casting that will say, ah, I don't like it. They feel disconnected, they don't feel connected somehow. And I always think of improv, 'cause improv is a wonderful source of connection to another person. How do we credibly and authentically connect to another person? Well, we practice it. It sounds like an oxymoron. You have to practice improv, but you do. You do.    Anne: You do. Absolutely.   Lau: You have to practice that skill. Right, Anne?    Anne: Absolutely. And the improv doesn't just happen at the beginning of the script. It's not just something you do to give yourself some pre-roll. Okay? Because if you start a script, and I say this constantly, especially with long format narration, when you are voicing something for a long period of time, you're in a scene, you need to stay in that scene. You can't just create the scene and then just read. Right? Because all too often people will create the scene, they'll be at the start of it, and then they will do a monologue. It becomes a monologue where they forget that there might be other things happening in the scene, or there might be other people in the scene that they're acting with. And just because they're behind the mic, right, and they're not physically there -- like if they were on stage, it would be easy to see that you're with somebody, right? And you're bouncing ideas off of somebody, and it's a back and forth, like a real improv class or a workshop.    But behind the mic, I think we tend to forget that there's other people in that scene with us. There's other things happening. There's movement. And if you are in a monologue, right -- I feel like monologues, unless they're extremely well written, right, are not as engaging (laughs) unless they're extremely well written. There are a lot of scripts that are not necessarily written for monologue. Right? It's like, here's my speech on this product, and you know what I mean? Like, here's my monologue about the product. Now how engaging is that? Right? If somebody's not interested in the product, you have to get them interested in the product. It has to be a story. And that story has to happen in between the sentences too. Right? You cannot stop just at the beginning.    Lau: Okay, I have a great improv. I have a great improv based off what you just said. All right. Peeps, listen in. Sell the product, whatever it is that is on your script. Sell the product or service. And do it completely in your own words. Like get rid of the script. Completely re-envision it. But remember, it's not just about saying the words or the lines. You have to persuade us. Like you have to make it feel like this is something that's super important to you, that you believe in and that you want us to know about. Right? So whether it's like a blouse or a car, or a cheese, or whatever it is, I would love to hear you talk about that from your own perspective, your own point of view, and really connect to it. And a lot of times, I know you get this, Anne, in coaching too, “but I don't, I don't eat cheese,” “I don't wear blouses; I'm a guy,” and“I don't drive cars.” Especially like that.    Anne: Yeah. I don't care much about the brand. I always get people that say, yeah, no, I don't really worry about brands. I'm like, okay. But for a living, you might be selling a particular brand. And so it's important, right, that you're educated about the brand, or you have to have some interest in it. You have to have some passion in it. And by passion, I don't mean overextended passion or over the top passion, unless it's called for, right, in the script. Because a lot of times for us to be believable and authentic, we have to sound authentic. So am I constantly like, oh my God, this product is amazing! I mean, I can't be that. Right? I can't. But I need to be as authentic as I can in my improv, right, in selling that product.    Lau: Well, you know, we should do, Anne? We should demo, we should do a quick demo. We should take something like a, an object, a simple object. We should have like a a 15 or 30-second conversation about that object.    Anne: Okay. So I always (laughs), I always have my lipstick. Okay. I always have my product here.    Lau: Okay. And the listener, maybe someone who doesn't wear a lipstick or doesn't care about lipstick, or maybe you're a man listening in, you don't ever -- okay, that's fine. But we're gonna have a conversation right now, Anne, about that. And it's all improv, right?    Anne: Okay, okay. So Lau. All right, so this Chanel, okay, typically inexpensive brand, right? Typically, most people will say, oh, it's way — this, this lipstick might be way overpriced. However, for me, I love this lipstick. I love this lipstick because I only have to put it on once. And so to me, the savings of time for this is amazing. I don't have to continually reapply my lipstick. I can drink water, I can eat, and I don't have to put it on over and over again. And it just stays on and it looks good. What are your thoughts? Would you, would you pay, would you pay $34 for this?    Lau: I would pay more than that, because I'm looking at it on your lips right now, and it's gorgeous. I love the gloss, I love the staying power. The color matches your skin tone perfectly.    Anne: And look, I can drink.    Lau: I love it. And you can drink, right? And it probably doesn't even leave residue on the cup.   Anne: And it’s still there. And it doesn't feel dry.    Lau: It's still there.    Anne: It doesn't feel dry.    Lau: And I think it's economical for what it's offering you.    Anne: Well, right?   Lau: I would get it.    Anne: My time is worth money, right? And if it, and if this is gonna save me time, right, from reapplying lipstick, or if it's gonna give me confidence because I feel like, oh God, you know how some lipstick will just kind of, you know, come off your lips, and you'll only have like a portion of on your lips, and then all of a sudden you get in the car and you look at yourself in the rearview mirror and you're like, oh my God! (laughs), my lips look horrible.    Lau: They’re gone.   Anne: Why didn't, why didn't my best friend tell me about that? So this, I don't have to worry about that. And so the ease, my mind being eased that I don't have to worry that it's come off and it's flaked off and it looks weird, or it's, God forbid, it's on my teeth. (laughs). No, it doesn't happen.    Lau: You took the words right outta my mouth. I was gonna say, your lipstick is never on your teeth. I'm impressed by that alone, and the fact that it's not all over your face like mine can be, by the end of the day, my lips are all over, you know, everywhere. So I, I just think that it's very cool for you to hold on to this and not go to other products, but really stay with it. Because it works, right?    Anne: Have I convinced you?    Lau: Now here's the thing. It's like, we do this in our daily life, right? We do this every day in our daily life.    Anne: That was improv. That was -- by the way, BOSSes, that was improv by the way.    Lau: That's all improv.    Anne: And that, I think if you are absolutely thinking about how would I sell this product? Like how would I voice this product? I mean, you can just riff (laughs), you know, I really love this product because it's amazing. And the funny thing is, is that Lau, you and I had a back and forth. And I think for improv, you have to also improv, if you don't have anybody with you and you are trying to improv your audition, I think you create that second person that you're having the conversation with. It's very much a technique that I use to sound conversational and just sound natural or believable, is to actually play a part with somebody else.    Because that's what you would do -- if you had a script and you were on stage, you'd be able to bounce your ideas back and forth. There would be an acknowledgement or a smile, or a nod or a conversation between two people. And so you have that movement, you have that scene that you can then improv, right? And once you improv, your voice takes on, especially like with you and I, it takes on the emotion and the point of view, which really, really brings out a script versus a read. This lipstick is wonderful, right? Versus, I mean, I'm like a robot saying that, but when I'm really like, oh, this is amazing, this is wonderful — it completely shows up in my voice. And so the fact that I've created in my mind this improv back and forth with my imaginary person that I'm telling about this lipstick is really makes all the difference.    Lau: It does. It does, Anne, because that's the power of improv. It's the personalization of it. When you're gonna say to me, but I don't use lipstick, Lau. I don't wear makeup -- I'd say, that's okay. Now let's engage your imagination. What if, — the magic “what if,” right? Stanislavsky's magic if -- what if you did wear makeup? What if you did wear lipstick? You know, when you were a little kid, you thought that way. And you weren't wearing lipstick or makeup (laughs).That's the irony, right?    Anne: And here's the deal. Transfer this lipstick into, let's say, a Halloween costume, right? You put green on your face if you were gonna be be the Incredible Hulk or, whatever that is, right? So consider that, make that part of your imaginative world, right? And how did that make you feel? I think there's always that, like, did it make you feel confident? Did it make you feel good? Were you excited to go show that off to your friends? And how does that translate in your voice? How does that make you sound — first of all, it's gonna make you sound connected, right?    Because when you're disconnected from the material, right, there's no emotion flowing in that voice. There's no emotion in that word. There's so many technical things that happen to words when you inflect an emotion onto them, or a point of view, right? So it's like, this is amazing. Like just the fact, amazing. Like I, it's not like I didn't say, this is amazing. No. I said, this is amazing. And so the rhythm changed, the intonation changed, so many technical things changed about my voice. And that is something when a casting director is listening to you, right? That is going to hit their ears and go, ah, there's an actor. And I swear to God, right? We know, for the first few words out of the mouth, we know if you're acting.    Lau: Oh, yeah.    Anne: Right?    Lau: Oh, yeah. And start with something that is known to you, personalize it to you, like give yourself a quick scenario that you lived, that you know, if it's possible. So let's go back to the lipstick, Anne. Let's say I'm a man, right? Or someone who doesn't wear lipstick or whatever. Okay. But my favorite aunt wears lipstick, and every time she would kiss me, I would literally smell it. I would smell the lipstick, I would notice the color of it. I always think of that color when I think of my aunt. So I'm personalizing it into something I know, and something that means something to me so that I can go into other scenarios that are a bit farther away from me.    Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely.   Lau: But if I don't start with any frame of reference at all, then I get that falseness, I get that falsehood of like, let me just sound like I love lipstick.    Anne: This lipstick — yeah, exactly. And I think that voice actors, if you're just getting into the industry and you're not realizing just how important this is to really make your auditions stand out and make you connect with the copy -- it's incredibly, incredibly important that you spend time. Like I know so many people are like, oh, I did 60 auditions today, or I did a billion auditions today. Well, I want you to take five minutes before you start, before anything comes out of your mouth (laughs). And I want you to first of all, research the product. If you know what the product is. Sometimes you don't know what the product is. Sometimes the script is obscure and you're not exactly sure what it is. And that makes it even more challenging for you to improv, right? Because you're trying to figure out what is this even talking about? And I know that's just the case for a lot of audition scripts that come along and we don't know what it's even talking about.    So then what we have to do is look at that script even closer. Every single word on that script has a meaning. And it may seem that you have no idea what it's talking about, and it's ridiculous. But honestly, somebody was paid probably a lot of money (laughs) to sit there and write every single word to create that brand message or to get that brand message out. And you need to really look at those words and think, what do they mean? What could it mean? And can I improv a scene, right, so that they would sound logical and realistic and have meaning and create emotion?   Lau: Absolutely. And let's say you don't do this at all. Let's say you say, I can't do improv at all. I can just do the lines --do this. This is a very famous actor method. Do substitution. Like how do I get to something personal? Let me take this little thing of lipstick. I have my own on my side, lipstick on my side. And this is no longer a lipstick. What this is to me is an EpiPen. So this EpiPen can save my child's life when she has a problem and get stung by a bee. And you say, well, how does that work? It's lipstick. I said, well, I can still do an improv with Anne and talk about this as if it's an EpiPen, but it'll sound like, I can't live without this. I really can't live without this. I always have this in my cabinet ready to go. Day or night, it goes with me. And you'd think I was talking about the lipstick. But I'm really talking about the EpiPen.    Anne: Sure, absolutely.    Lau: Try that in terms of your improv in your daily life, when you need to connect with someone's situation, someone's stuff that they're bringing up that you don't really have any idea about. You haven't lived through it, you don't use it. You don't know about it. And you ask them questions about it. But think about what that is to you in your life. What's the substitution in your life that connects to what they're talking about? That's how powerful improv can be. It can make you friends. It can win you jobs. It can make you a lot of money.   Anne: And something else that can help you -- I feel like I see this every episode, Lau — Google is your friend. Anne GanGoogle, right? Google is your friend. Like if you, if there's any indication of what you're talking about in the script, or there's words in there that you're not sure what it's even about, Google. I mean, I can't tell you how helpful it is to --if you're not familiar with the brand and the brand name is there, you can go to the website, and you'll get a great visual representation of what that is and who they might serve. And that will also help you to place your improv and place your scene in a place that's logical.    I mean, it has to be logical, right? I mean, you want it to sound natural and believable. And so you should have a little bit of education about the product or the company, or maybe what's their demographic? Are they selling to young people? Are they selling to a more mature audience? And that can help inform the scene for you that you are going to create. But you must, you must use your brain. And it's not easy, right? It is sometimes it is. Like I rack my brain trying to figure out what is this saying? Like I don't even know. This is so ethereal and so out there that I don't even know what this is saying. But I, I find that if I keep rereading the lines, somewhere along the line, if I look at the important nouns, if I look at the objects, if I look at the emotion of it all, I can really read more into it to try to figure out, okay, this would make sense. Now, if this was a storyline where somebody was upset that something wasn't going right, and this product -- like the EpiPen, right -- was truly meaningful and could really help save a life.    And so I think if you just continually look at the words, see how the words fit together, and then if you have any clues whatsoever in the script, go ahead and Google it. And that's gonna help you find out maybe what the brand is. What do they actually do? Do they serve multiple demographics? What are the colors? I mean, you can just go into like the visually, what are the colors on the website? What is their tone of voice on the webpage? You know, the verbiage on the webpage? How do they approach their clients? And I think that will really help to help you build the scene that you must improv.    Lau: Yeah. And if you go to their YouTube channel, you're gonna see visuals of what the culture is like, what the sound, feeling, environment is like. I mean, put yourself in that environment. That's the old actor Johnny Depp type exercise where the method actors would always go to the place that their character is in and just feel what the place feels like. Well that's kind of important because if I'm doing a lot of corporate work, and I'm getting a lot of corporate narration or corporate scripts, and I've never worked in corporate America, and I have no idea what it's like, just go somewhere, be in a big tall glass building with people who wear suits and see what it feels like, right? See what they eat and drink, hear how they talk. Or just go to a Starbucks. You'll see 'em in Starbucks, hear how they talk. So that you're not necessarily mimicking them, but you're getting an essence, a suggestion of where you wanna head towards that may be very different from your world and your existence. You wanna talk the lingo, have a sense of that.    Anne: Yeah, absolutely. You wanna be able to align to the environment, right? And I think, Lau, if I said to you, is improv important in promos?    Lau: Improv is important in everything,    Anne: Right. So why? I'm playing the devil's advocate here. I'm thinking my students would be like, yeah, but you don't really need to improv in a promo, or you don't need to improv when you're doing a phone system. And I would tend to disagree with you heartily. I think improv is needed everywhere. I'd like your take on that, Lau.    Lau: I agree. As I said, I think it's an immense tool to find your interpretation. Like if I'm gonna give more than one take, or let's say I'm just dealing with an in-house client. I'm not auditioning; they're just calling me and I'm giving them takes, I'm gonna say, wait a second, who's calling? Like, who are the people that are calling? What if I have an impatient person calling going to the system, right? I have a person who's a seller or pitcher calling? What if I have a young teenage person calling the system? How am I coming across to them? How would I speak to them differently and what their different needs are? That would be an improv tool that I would start to be utilizing in that telephony or whatever system.   Anne: And if you're a voice for a healthcare system, right? Okay, somebody's calling for an appointment, right? They're nervous, they're not feeling well, or you know what I mean? They want the results of their test. Understand who it is that you are going to be talking to, right, and then talk to them. I always say that when I read the back of pharmaceutical labels, I do medical narration, and I want to be able to speak to that person who is nervously looking at the back of the bottle and saying, oh my God, I have all of these symptoms. That's me, by the way. I have every single symptom ever known. And who do I call in case I die? That kind of thing. I'm taking that lightly, but I really do think about the person that's going to be looking at this bottle and what I'm voicing and I'm improv-ing, right? I'm playing that scene out in my head so that I can voice it better.    And so that's for medical narration, and for promos, you know, tonight, like if you're doing like a television promos, right? Still, you've gotta get into the mindset of who's the audience that watches this show, and how can you -- hey, oh my God, did you catch the latest episode of — that kind of thing? You've got to get into their mindset 'cause you're talking to them. And that is where improv will come into play, right? Know that network, know that show. Be the person that watches that show and talk to them.    Lau: And if anything, if you don't believe in anything we're saying, just talk and listen to people talking because that's one big, huge improvisation. Conversation is just one big, huge improv. Life is one big, huge improv 'cause we don't really know what's coming up next. So you don't have to perform, you don't have to act, you don't have to do anything other than listen, observe and communicate. Because then you're improv-ing.    Anne: And I will tell you that every other month, or at least once a quarter, if you join the VO Peeps, we do have a workshop that covers improv. We do it. I think it's necessary to continually just keep your skills up. And I know, Lau, I'm sure you have something is part of your group as well?   Lau: We do. We have a Monday night improv mania that runs. It's a lot of actors, a lot of VO talent. A lot of people come in, even just people who are in business come in and they just want to --   Anne: And it's so much fun.    Lau: Fun. Yeah. They wanna free themselves, wanna be free.    Anne: And that's the thing. Yeah, improv should be fun. It shouldn't be stressful. And the only way that you're gonna make it fun is by doing it really. And just getting yourself used to it and getting those responses quicker and quicker and quicker. And thinking off the cuff. And it will always help you especially — I've just had a conversation with Dave Fennoy talking about video games. You know, the storyline and video games is constantly evolving and changing. Improv is huge. You may prepare your character for one set of scenes, and then when you get to the studio to record somebody's changed the script on you. And that could be for video games, that could be for commercial, it could be for any script where you might have last minute changes. So I think it's so important, guys, that we are well-versed in improv, know how important it is and go out there and practice it.    Lau: I love it. Here we go. Ready for the improv of life.   Anne: The Improv of life. You guys, I'm gonna give a great big sponsor shout-out to ipDTL. You too can connect and network like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And I also want to give a shout-out to 100 Voices Who Care. This is your chance to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. 100voiceswhocare.org to commit. Thanks so much, guys. Have an amazing week and we'll see you next week.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

If you're new to the voice over industry, there's a lot to learn. Luckily there are plenty of resources out there that can help you get your bearings and start building your career. Anne is joined by special guest Tracy Lindley, a voice actor & expert on utilizing LinkedIn as a marketing tool for voice actors. On LinkedIn, it's all about relationships—and not just with other actors. Remember to focus on fostering genuine connections and optimizing your online presence to attract potential clients. With persistence and the right strategies, you'll be well on your way to establishing a thriving career in voice acting. Stay engaged, keep learning, and watch your network—and opportunities—grow.   Transcript   It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and today I'm excited to bring very special guest, Tracy Lindley to the podcast. Hey Tracy.   Tracy: Hey Ann. How's it going?   Anne: It's going great. So a little bit about Tracy. Tracy's been a full-time voice actor since 2014 -- we are kind of twinsies on that one -- and regularly voices projects for clients like Hewitt Packard, Realtor.com, iHeartRadio, Health.com, and many others. She is a well known expert in the field of LinkedIn and finding clients and is also a mom to four kids, ages 7 to 13, who also do voiceover. And she lives in the Midwest area where it's very cold right now.   Tracy: Yes, I'm bundled up in a sweater.   Anne: Well, Tracy, I am so excited to finally have you here on the show. I feel like we're like ships that pass in the night because I've been following you for such a long time, and I've seen you at conferences, but we've just kind of like passed each other by.   Tracy: I bet I've been following you for longer because I remember when I was first starting out, you had a great interview on VO Buzz Weekly that I watched.   Anne: Oh, I remember that. Yeah.   Tracy: Yes. It was a wonderful two-part interview and I learned so much, and I was like, man, she is just dropping truth bombs on here.   Anne: Well, thank you that I'm very honored about that. My goodness. But you, I mean, my gosh, you are just blazing this path to the stars with your career, and really in the last couple of years, you are absolutely the known person outside of being great in voiceover and talented, but also all about marketing and LinkedIn. And so I'm excited to talk to you about that today, because I was much more involved in LinkedIn a few years back. And then my business kind of, I have separate paths. Now, I'm not as able to keep up as much as I'd like on LinkedIn, so I'm getting ready to learn a whole lot, and BOSSes, I think you're gonna learn a whole lot from this wonderful, wonderful talent here. So let's get going. Before we talk about LinkedIn, tell us a little bit about your journey into voiceover.   Tracy: Well, it started out with me just hanging out, washing dishes in my kitchen, listening to VO Buzz Weekly and other great podcasts like VO BOSS, which is on the resource page that I have on my website to recommend to other talent that are learning.   Anne: Thank you.   Tracy: Because you are always giving us value and you have since the very beginning, and I've learned so much from you. You are a wiz at marketing yourself and a great person just relationally. You know how to connect the dots and how to communicate very well.   Anne: Well, thank you for that.   Tracy: Oh, well you're welcome. I mean, part of the fun of being on podcasts is getting to tell people how much I enjoy them personally because I'm very relational myself, and I think think that if someone was just starting out in the industry, I feel like the best way to get started is to research. And that's what I tell everybody. Research, research, research. Read the articles, listen to the podcasts, watch the vlogs. Do all of those things. And there are some great paid courses too. I recommend all of that stuff because you can't just learn in bits and pieces so much. Sometimes you need to kind of put it all together, and we all connect those dots as we're going along in our journey. But I can't remember now what your original question is. Oh my. My journey.   Anne: Your journey. Yes. Your journey. Because you've been doing this a long time. I think we started around the same time actually, and I was working part-time for a little bit before I went into it full-time. Were you always in it full-time or did you?   Tracy: No.   Anne: Okay. So you started part-time.   Tracy: I was a claims adjuster for an auto insurance company. And I know you were, from your story, you were working on installing telephone systems, right?   Anne: Yep, absolutely.   Tracy: And that's how you got your start was hey, they needed a voice to be on the systems. And for me, I have a communication degree, and when I was in college, I had an internship at a cable company and one day the producer just handed me a piece of paper and was like, hey, you have a nice voice. Will you read this? I'm like, okay, sure. . So I read it, I get in there, it's no more than a small closet with foam in it in a microphone, right? So it's nothing fancy. So I go in there and I read it, and I just found that I have this natural sense of timing. I knew what 30 seconds should be. And that goes back even further to me just reading out loud to kids at the library when I was like 12, 13, 14.   I just volunteered my time, and I was always like the babysitter that everybody wanted to come and hang out with their kids. So I have read to kids out loud several years of my life and still love reading out loud to my own kids. Reading out loud is such a skill that we don't realize we need to develop. Because when we're reading a book, you know, we're not gonna typically read out loud to ourselves. So sometimes it feels weird and it feels strange, but that's one of the best skills that we can learn when we're getting into into the industry.   Anne: Oh yeah. That's like cold reading skills right there. And I remember myself as a youngster, I would always be that person that would raise the hand -- who wants to read out loud for the class?   Tracy: Yes.   Anne: Me. And I wrote books too when I was really young. When I was in kindergarten, I learned to write, and I started to write books and I read them to the first graders, and it was all about Nibbles the Bunny. But I think that maybe that was so long ago though.   Tracy: Okay. I feel like --   Anne: That was like my start .   Tracy: -- we have got to publish these books. The world needs to see Nibbles the Bunny.   Anne: I'm telling you --   Tracy: Have you considered that?   Anne: ? I wish. I wish that I had a picture of it or a record of what it was that I wrote, but I vividly remember drawing the bunny. I illustrated too. And then I wrote the books, and I was so proud to read them, and all of my career, and I know yours too, I think a lot of voice actors when they get into it, they're good cold readers, or they've always been like excited to read or perform in front of an audience. And it's wonderful for your cold reading skills. And then I think what happens is, as we really get into the acting of voiceover, then it becomes something where you don't wanna use that as a crutch. You wanna use it to get yourself to quickly get into the story, but then you need to act. And then if you're reading too much and then it's gonna sound like you're reading too much, but I digress. But I think it's a wonderful skill that everybody needs in order to just, you know, be quick on their feet. Once you get those script changes that come in like at the last minute, you've gotta be able to do a quick cold read and understand and comprehend that story so that you can then tell it back while you're voicing it.   Tracy: Yeah. Yeah. And it's really important to have that -- that child doesn't have those inhibitions that we do as adults. So I feel like if we could just tap into our inner child, we wouldn't be scared of it, you know, because we can all get performance anxiety, especially the more and more and more people come into the room to listen to us perform, it just becomes so scary. So it really all comes down to just reading out loud, having fun with it, telling a story. That's what we're here for.   Anne: Absolutely. Now this is a little earlier than I was gonna get into it, but you're a mom of four kids, so big family. I'm also one of four in the family. Actually through the pandemic I became one of six and that's just a whole 'notherpodcast where I found out I had a brother and a sister, which is a wonderful thing. But I loved being a family where we're close in age. Tell me about your family, 'cause they're also doing voiceover, and I love how you just talked about how we need to be kids, we need to feel uninhibited. And so do you work with your kids and then also learn from them as well or be reminded of that as well?   Tracy: Oh gosh, I'm always learning lessons from them. And a lot of those lessons involve being patient and being a good communicator, breaking down what I need from you and saying it nicely. .   Anne: Oh yeah. And hey, that works in marketing too, right? .   Tracy: Yeah, that's true. I mean direct communication, but doing it kindly is I think a big key to marketing effectively.   Anne: Yeah.   Tracy: But my kids are always teaching me stuff. Like last night, my daughter, she's nine, she's the middle daughter'cause I have a son and then three girls.   Anne: Okay.   Tracy: So the middle daughter is right in that sweet spot. You see a lot of auditions that come through 8 to 10, 8 to 10. So she's right there. She's also recently started taking vocal lessons. They do coach as well. Martha Khan is an excellent teacher for kids. Love her, my kids love her. But my daughters, all four of the kids actually take piano lessons, so --   Anne: I did too.   Tracy: Oh yes. It's great. We need that musicality.   Anne: It's so wonderful. Yes, absolutely. And I use that musicality when I coach as well because there's a melody to conversation. There's a melody in which most people are trying to achieve that natural, conversational, authentic, and there's a melody to it, believe it or not, if you break it down, so.   Tracy: Were you a vocalist as well? Or are you still?   Anne: Yeah, I mean I don't sing professionally, but you know, I sing in the shower, but for the longest time I was in choir for all four years of high school and went to the all-states and the all-counties and absolutely. I still love, love to sing. And it is something that, and playing piano, understanding where your notes are and being able to read music, it greatly helped breaking down the performance of a conversation. And so yeah. It's the basis of how I teach a lot actually. 'cause there's a lot of people who are musical that come into this industry. So piano's wonderful.   Tracy: Yeah, they really have an advantage. I took lessons, uh, piano lessons for seven years as well. And I definitely see a lot of legato, staccato.   Anne: Yes.   Tracy: Those are pretty big themes in what we do.   Anne: Yeah.   Tracy: And also understanding how to translate what the client is saying. I actually see sort of musically in my head.   Anne: Oh yeah, there's a rhythm. There's definitely a rhythm to it and a beat. And also the emotional part of it too, right, the emotion that gets put into it and the passion that gets put into it. Words are notes and really it's phrasing is very similar, right? We don't breathe in the middle of our phrases when we talk. It's not like I'm going to talk to you like this. You know, , it's, yeah. There's just a whole composition to it and, and I believe in my demo production too, it's a storyline from beginning to end. So it's amazing how much music plays into, at least how I identify and can work within voiceover and also coach it.   Tracy: Yes. Imagination too. We've got to again tap into that inner child where we're able to let ourselves go into the story and become the character.   Anne: Oh yes.   Tracy: My daughter and I both have -- my older daughter, my 11-year-old, she loves like fairy tales, princess stories, anything that involves, you know, that kind of fantasy world. And right now I cannot get her nose out of this book that she's reading. It's the Ella Enchanted author. I can't remember -- her last name is Levine. Anyway, caught her reading by the light of the nightlight last night when she's supposed to be sleeping. But that kind of joy for the story Yeah. Is what we need as adults. And that's another thing that I was talking to my daughter last night with the auditions is that --'cause they needed her to do some giggles. And sometimes it's hard to get kids to laugh on command, and I'll tickle 'emand I'll do whatever I need to, but I'm just like, pretend you're having fun with your friends. I want you to think about the best day. I want you to think about when you do your gymnastics and you just, you love life and let it bubble up and come out of you. So she's still working on that. She's a little nervous in front of the mic still. But it's all part of the journey. So I do learn a ton from my kids. That's a great question that I don't think everyone's ever really asked me before.   Anne: Oh, and you know what's so funny is that when I was teaching, of course I worked in high school, I learned so much, probably more from the kids than they might've learned from me. I mean, my hope was to inspire and motivate them, but boy did I learn a whole lot from them. It's why I coach today because I really feel that give and take, and I can completely understand when you're working with your children. Like it's such a wonderful give and take when you're experiencing that together, and you're learning together and you're guiding her and hopefully getting her super excited to just excel at voiceover, and so great for you. Now how do you find the time? There's the, the question probably everybody asks you, because I was part of a four child family and I know how busy my mom was. She was constantly carting me everywhere to my piano lessons or whatever that was. I also rode horses, but it was a crazy busy time for my mom. So how do you do it all?   Tracy: I just really think time management's important, but also just understanding boundaries. I have worked for many years without my kids being away and with having really limited childcare hours. Because I love my kids and I want to spend time with them. So everything I teach, I say do it in the cracks of life. There's always little windows and bits, and if you can take that, you can actually concentrate it and do more in that time. I've found that since my kids, all four of them, are in school full-time, I have to really reign myself in and plan my day more consecutively to where I'm using it more effectively. Because when I just had two hours and a day to work during nap time, boy, I really hustled. And I really focused on marketing on LinkedIn. That was the thing that I needed to do. I have not enjoyed endless auditioning. That's not something that really floats my boat. I don't love it.   Anne: I don't either.   Tracy: I do auditions. Yeah. And actually, actually I joined Bodalgo.   Anne: Did I say that? Yeah. Don't either.   Tracy: We have to do what we have to do.   Anne: I know.   Tracy: But I don't hardly audition on Voice123 because there's just so many and there's so many people. But I do love of course agents, I will audition everything that I feel is appropriate --   Anne: Yes. Absolutely.   Tracy: -- for my -- absolutely. So agents, current clients that maybe they need three choices to send to their end person. Yeah. Or some of the different production houses that I'm part of, they'll need auditions and Bodalgo. But really that's it. Most of the time it's directly communicating with the client 'cause that is where I really enjoy.   Anne: Yeah, I love that. And you know, that's so interesting 'cause I feel that we're kind of like soul sisters in that area because right now, the way that I have -- I'm doing a lot of things. I mean, I'm doing this podcast, I'm doing a VO Peeps group and I also coach and I do voiceover, so I don't have a ton of time to devote to auditioning. And so for me it was more about the direct marketing. One of the things that I developed because I didn't have a ton of time, was the BOSS Blast, which was a direct marketing to a list. And that makes total sense that for you, you would go and use LinkedIn or use whatever social platform that worked for you to get those jobs directly because that kind of bypasses a lot of times the need for an audition.   And also I, I would imagine, I'm gonna talk to you about that, like what search engine optimization has to do in LinkedIn that helps you get found, and people maybe reach out to you, and then if they hear your demo or you've got samples up there, I would imagine that then they just say, have an inquiry and say how much would it cost to do this? And for me that's the time saver where I don't have to audition. And it's not that I won't audition, but it's just that I don't have a ton of time. So I had to get more efficient at my marketing. So then let's talk about LinkedIn. Now, why LinkedIn, first of all for you and not some other social platform?   Tracy: Well, I mean the other ones are fun, but when people think about business, they think about LinkedIn. It is the number one most widely used business social media platform. So naturally that's where I was gonna go because I'm not interested in getting followers and being popular online. I'm just here to build those business relationships and grow my business. And I did it. I mean, I would market to as many people as I could. My goal was 20 people per day, new people that I would reach out to. As a young person in my career as a young mom of little kids, I knew my time was limited, so that's where I focused. I said I'm gonna market to 20 people per day. And I kept like a little, just a paper, like a written, handwritten notebook where I would write down names and dates, and then I would, you know, make a note back if someone contacted me back.   But it was just a visual tool to show me that I had actually accomplished something that day. And now I have a resource in my LinkedIn marketing course, the VO Edge, that's called Five Daily Reach Outs. Because 20 is a lot, and I realize that's a lot. So, but five, anybody can do five. And that's why over the years I've learned from people like you, people like Natasha Marcheska, people that know how to break a big task into little tasks. If you do that, you can accomplish so much more because you're not gonna get discouraged. And to have a plan. I guarantee that you don't wake up wondering, I wonder what I'm gonna do today. You know what you're doing because you are super organized.   Anne: Well, I think you have to be, right? And especially for us to be successful and to continue to grow in our businesses. I mean we have to be, because we've got a lot of things that we're doing. I mean, you're a mom of four, you're a voice talent, you're running a online -- is it an online course and is it live as well?   Tracy: No, it's just online.   Anne: That's a lot -- okay.   Tracy: It's online only. And I did that to save myself time. I really put a lot of thought into planning out the different modules and lessons and I tightly edited them so there's no wasted time because I don't like my time to be wasted. And I didn't wanna do that to anybody else. So it's about two hours of content overall. And I also do like a little introductory pump up video to kind of get people excited and motivated to do that module and that lesson. But yeah, it's totally, anybody can do it in their own time. It's on demand, and you can go revisit it anytime. It's all videos and there's some downloads too.   Anne: And I imagine 'cause creating curriculum, of course being an educator, right, for the longest time, I mean, it takes time to create good content. So for you to keep that up to date and keep that as a successful online course, congratulations. First of all, I know how much time that takes and how much effort it takes to get really good content and a really good course online that people can really get value out of. Now do you do any special coaching? I'm sure people are coming up to you and go, please, can you just help me with my profile, or do you do any type of individual coaching as well?   Tracy: Yeah. I'll do one-on-one and so I'll do like a private consulting session for an hour, and we'll go over, typically we'll start with the profile. And I always ask, Hey, please send me any questions in advance, the things you really wanna know because I'm not gonna waste your time and we're gonna go quickly during this hour.   Anne: Good.   Tracy: But I don't do a ton of that because the course is so comprehensive that most people get their questions answered through that.   Anne: Awesome.   Tracy: And I really do direct them towards the course because then it doesn't take up my time.   Anne: Right.   Tracy: But I love working with people as you know, it's so much more fun to get to know people individually during that hour. So I mean, I made a friend by the end of the hour and I love that.   Anne: Yeah. It is. The only thing is, is that as you keep trying to -- and for me, I'm, I'm very business minded, right? And for me, if I'm not growing then I'm stagnating and that's not necessarily where I wanna be. And so personally in my business, I'm always looking to grow in one way or another. And so every week, every month, every year, I'm looking at how can I grow my business? And so your personal time is probably the most precious time that you have. And so for example, I can't coach any more people. I cannot do any more one-on-ones because I'm one person, and I simply don't have the hours in the day to do everything that I wanna do. So it is important to be efficient. So let's talk a little bit more about the LinkedIn. You're using the free version of LinkedIn, right?   Tracy: Right. I've never done the premium.   Anne: Okay. You've never even tried it?   Tracy: No.   Anne: Okay.   Tracy: It's just so robust, I don't need it.   Anne: Okay.   Tracy: You do get limited on the number of connections, but what I've taught people is that you can put your searches in and then bookmark it. And that way you can just keep going back to that page, and it doesn't keep ding you for additional searches.   Anne: Oh, got it.   Tracy: So that's a big secret that a lot of people.   Anne: We can go home now. That's it. That's a . That's it. That's the nugget.   Tracy: But I mean, what you mentioned earlier about optimizing the SEO, so let's talk about that.   Anne: Yes.   Tracy: That is one of the key things. And you're great at that on your website. I know that.   Anne: Oh, thank you.   Tracy: Well, you come from a tech --   Anne: It's lot of work. Yeah.   Tracy: -- background. Yes. Yes. And it's additional content.   Anne: But it's worthy.   Tracy: Yes.   Anne: It's definitely worth it to spend the time on the content because it brings people to your site. And I imagine people on LinkedIn searching for voiceover talent, like you want them to reach your profile.   Tracy: Right.   Anne: So yeah, let's talk about what do you do to enhance your SEO for that?   Tracy: Well, so there are three steps in what I teach with LinkedIn. And the first step is optimizing your profile. So that's where you must start. Do not start reaching out to people if you haven't completely shined up your profile and made it the best it can be. So obviously that would be the base step in step one. So step one involves just putting yourself forward authentically. One of the things that I really harp on is how there's so much inauthentic, spammy marketing, and you can stand out by being authentic.   I consider my life messy. People know that I have four kids and I don't hide it. I put all over my Instagram, I just posted one recently about going Christmas shopping with the kids, and it was just, I did not wanna go. It starts off with me making a face, you know, like I don't wanna do this. And I used like the circus theme because sometimes that's how I feel like I live in a circus. So I allow people to get a glimpse into my messiness. And I feel like that's actually been a boost to my brand, because I'm relatable and we all have messes. So why pretend to be perfect? So when you create your profile, though, you are your most businessy self on LinkedIn. So I'm not nearly as messy there. I will be all kinds of messy on Instagram and Facebook. But here on LinkedIn we're a little bit more put together. We wanna make sure that people know we can handle the work. We're not gonna flake, we're dependable. So key words that emphasize those kinds of business ethics are key.   And also speaking from a one-on-one perspective, don't make it sound like, Tracy Lindley is a full-time voice actor, that kind of thing. You wanna say I am. So you're speaking to the first person. I tell people to look at it as if you were at a networking event and you're meeting someone for the first time and they say, what do you do? So you've got a big picture back here where you're giving an overall view of who you are, 'cause they asked, and if they're visiting your profile, that's kind of like asking what do you do? Let me get to know you a bit. And then when you get down to the experience section about being a voice talent, then that's when you get into more of the nitty gritty like clients, agents, those kinds of things.   Anne: Do you put examples and demos on there as well in your profile?   Tracy: Oh yeah. That's key.   Anne: Media?   Tracy: I mean, why would you wanna hire somebody that doesn't have any examples at all of their work?   Anne: Right.   Tracy: And don't make 'em go looking on your website. That wastes their time. Everything that we do needs to be client-centered, and it wastes the client's time to take them to your website or some other source. You should put it right there on LinkedIn. Put all your best examples. And a lot of times people are starting out brand new. Like if you've coached someone and they've just created a demo, and they have no body of work, they can take that demo that you've created with them and turn it into a video and display that on LinkedIn.   Anne: Videos are effective.   Tracy: Yes. And you can't really do an MP3 on LinkedIn. You have to do some sort of video. So sometimes people do SoundCloud, but I don't find that very effective 'cause it's just a static picture. And I think even a very simple video is fine. Some people do make it look like all these clips of commercials, which is really cool, but it's also costly. And if people are bootstrapping their business at the beginning, it's really easy to create a very simple video with your picture and just a few things, contact information on the back. Contact information is huge because that's our call to action is contact me.   Anne: What about your feed on LinkedIn? Are you posting to the feed on LinkedIn? Are you creating content? Because I know a big thing, gosh, a couple years ago when I was looking back into it was creating content and posts like short blog posts in LinkedIn. Is that still, is that effective? Is that, what are your thoughts on that?   Tracy: You know, video's really taken over. Blogs are still fantastic and also they can link back to your website, which boosts your SEO, but really video is king right now, and those are the things that are gonna get the most engagement. But you can't just get on camera and talk about nothing. You have to give people something of value. And you have to to keep it short. So when I post videos, I try to keep 'em less than two minutes, 90 seconds if I can. You know, it just depends. I'll do it in one, two, no more than three takes. And if I can't get it in three takes, just forget it. I'll come back later. Because mm-hmm. I want it fresh, I want it off the cuff.   Anne: Yeah. I agree.   Tracy: I want it to be as authentic as possible.   Anne: Yeah, I agree. And so the big question is, and I know most of, a lot of students will, well what do I post? Or what do I talk about? Like what do you talk about? Do you talk about voiceover? I don't think the intent is to do a hard sell on hire me, I do voiceover. What are your thoughts on creative videos that would bring value?   Tracy: Well, I'd say touch on things that make us human, touch on things that make us a business person. So one of the best videos I ever did was talking about how I am extra, and at my kids's school I was doing the announcing for the volleyball game, and I was told after that, hey, you know, you don't need to commentate so much about the volleyball game, you know, just do the sponsors and say something at the end of the match. Okay. But I didn't, I just would say something after like every point. I think it did get a little annoying. I did learn from that, but my point was I just couldn't sit there with this microphone and not say things. So I just realized I am extra and I made a little video out of that and about rejoicing in being extra. And so --   Anne: I love that.   Tracy: Yes. So many people relate to that. And that kind of thing that brings us together as humans. it makes us who we are. And I was the kind of girl that went door to door selling cookies in the neighborhood and asking if I could rake your leaves and things. I've always been a go-getter and I know you are too, Anne. And when you're a go-getter in this industry, you can't just sit back and do the minimum.   Anne: Yeah. Agreed.   Tracy: That was my video.   Anne: Agreed. Well, I love that. So now outside of LinkedIn, right, and of course BOSSes out there, I totally encourage all of you just go take the course, just do it. LinkedIn is just one of the best resources for getting work that I can think of. I guess my last question before I ask you, the big question, which is I will get to that, is let's talk about templates or how do you reach out to somebody in a cold contact? I feel like cold contacting people is difficult. That I know. And so how do you wrangle that in reaching out and not being considered spammy? Is there a tip or two or three that you have in reaching out to people?   Tracy: Sure. My biggest tip is to look for anything that you can use to find common ground. So when people are just starting out using LinkedIn, one of the best ways to reach out is by geographic area. So you could reach out to folks in LA, I can reach out to folks in Kansas City, and that way we have that in common already and we know that. And that's an easy thing to put into the search terms when we're using the search features of LinkedIn is geographical area. So that's one thing. But another thing, I encourage people to look through their profile and find something that they can relate to. Maybe they mention a cat or a dog or kids, or I like to watch the Chiefs, whatever. Find something. If they've written any kind of personal about section, usually you can find something interesting there to comment about. But as far as templates, I am pro templates within reason, I do think that it's good -- if you're gonna kind of write similar things each time, I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel. So I do encourage people to write templates, but personalize like the first sentence and always say that person's correctly spelled name.   Anne: Oh yeah. . Absolutely.   Tracy: Like I bet people spell your name A-N-N. And you're like, uh...   Anne: Yes. All the time. All the time. They do.   Tracy: And I always get, yes, T-R-A-C-E-Y is how people end up spelling my name. I'm like, there's no E. . We don't like that.   Anne: There's no E. Absolutely. Well, what wonderful advice. Now in addition to LinkedIn, what would be your best business tip for people just getting into the industry on how to establish their business or get work and be successful?   Tracy: I would say the best thing is to start local. Start with who you know. I think I'm hearing from your story that people who were your first clients were people you actually knew in your life, and they were in mind too. So when you are truly ready to hang out your open for business sign, which means you've got a great website, you've got a great professionally produced demo, you have enough training to where if someone says, I need this, you can give it to them-- your sound quality has to be top notch, you have to have a low sound floor, no buzzing, no echo, all that stuff, and you know how to use your equipment, including source connect. If you say that you have source connect -- okay. If you have all that stuff, then you are ready to start hanging out your sign and telling people on Facebook and Instagram and whatever that you're doing voiceover. And chances are there's someone in your life who needs voiceover, especially if you have a decent personal social network. And that's kind of how it happened for me was I was personally connected to someone that owned a marketing firm, and he was one of my first clients. My alma mater hired me to do a short documentary. There were some little IVR things that I did, and it just kind of snowballs.   Anne: Absolutely.   Tracy: Yeah. And then I felt confident. I'm like, okay, I have a little bit of work here that I can showcase. It may not be any brand names that are super sexy, but it's work, and it sounds good and it looks good, so let's put it out there. So that's what I started doing. It builds on each other.   Anne: It's amazing how important local can be in establishing relationships. Also, relationships that keep coming back as you nurture it. I have so many repeat clients that I've had for years because like you say, communication is key, and nurturing those relationships are key. And a lot of them started off locally. And I think that that is something people don't think of. And that also locally helps when you're advertising like where you are voicing from, like voicing from Southern California or Orange County, California or Los Angeles area. Even just putting those words on your website help for people to find you because most of the times when people are searching using Google, it's automatically got localization turned on. And so if they're searching for voice talent, it's gonna search locally first. And so you wanna be up at the top of that search. So, great advice, Tracy. I wanna thank you so very much for joining me today. Yay. My bucket list checked off.   Tracy: Oh, me too. This is so fun. And I'll see you at VO Atlanta in March.   Anne: I know, I'm very excited. How can people get in touch with you and where can they go to get that course again?   Tracy: Okay, so my website, if people wanna check out me or my work or whatever, that's tracylindley.com. And the course is @thelinkedinedge.com. Or if you wanna just look at the one for voice actors, it's thevoedge.com and it'll take you right there.   Anne: Perfect.   Tracy: And I'm happy to answer questions. Contact me on Instagram. My handle is @TracyLindleyVO, pretty much everywhere.   Anne: Awesome. Tracy, thank you so much again for joining me. I'm gonna give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and connect like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And also, I want you to understand about your chance to use your voice to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to commit and find out more. You guys, have an amazing week. Tracy, thank you again, and we'll see you next week. Bye.   Tracy: Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

In this episode, Anne and Gillian stress the importance of having a high-quality home studio for voice actors. The hosts discuss the technical aspects of setting up a studio, such as having a good computer, fast internet, and a reliable microphone. They also emphasize the need for soundproofing, with Anne sharing her DIY approach to creating acoustic panels for her studio. Additionally, the hosts talk about the importance of isolation and how it can be achieved through building panels or using reflection filters. Overall, the episode provides valuable insights for anyone looking to set up a professional-grade voiceover studio.   Transcript   It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm excited to welcome back to the show audio engineer, musician and creative freelancer Gillian Pelkonen for another episode in our BOSS audio series. Hey Gillian.    Gillian: Hello Anne. How's it going today?    Anne: I'm doing good. Gillian, I love talking all things audio with you, especially because for a voice actor, our home studios are so very important. And I work mostly out of my home studio, and I know that you kind of do both. You work out of professional studios and your home studio. So I thought we should discuss the important aspects of what voice actors really need and how they can fine-tune their home studio to sound their best, 'cause that's an important component of today's voice actor. We need to have great sound.    Gillian: Yeah, I definitely agree. And I'm home. This is like my working station, but when I'm really working I'm always just bopping around to different studios. So I understand why your booth is so important. It's like your second home or --   Anne: Yeah. (laughs).   Gillian: You know, you spend all your time in there.   Anne: We spend — oh yeah, we spend a lot of time in our booth. So first of all we have to be confident that it sounds amazing, that we can deliver amazing sound to our clients. And then also it's gotta be someplace where it's comforting for us because we do spend an awful lot of time in here.    Gillian: I definitely agree with my personal setup that I have here. I have like all my little mementos that I wanna see, and I have my mic of course for just meetings and talking. But really professional studios are so different than a home studio, because for me I'm always going different places. There's a ton of different gear, a ton of different stuff that we swap in and out for different uses, different clients, but really you guys are just focusing on your voice.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: A lot of the work that I do is just to get creative sounds, different sounds, but with voice acting you want it to be consistent and you wanna show up in the booth to do, I guess, revisions for something that you did six months ago and you need to be the same Anne that you were, which is so crazy to me.    Anne: Yeah. And even longer than that, actually I had a client just the other day that I had to provide pickups on something that I had done close to five years ago. And interestingly enough, I've actually transitioned from one studio to the next. So having I think the good bass sound, right, that you can get out of your studio area and also your mics make a big difference too in terms of the sound. And so I had to make sure that I could match it because I literally moved from my studio in Irvine, which was a different setup, a studio that my father built, to a custom studio that Tim Tippetts built here right before the pandemic. Oh, and in between I had a temporary studio, I forgot to mention that set up at an apartment that we were staying at until our new house was built and ready. So that was a different studio.    So all through those three different studios, thankfully I had the same mic, so I at least knew that I could get the same sound as long as I had a decent environment to record that in. And then also I will give props to myself because I had the audio files from five years ago. So I'm a big proponent of backing up your stuff and keeping an archive of it so you can listen and see what your performance was like, see what you sounded like and then be able to match it.    Gillian: Yeah, that's crazy. And so incredible that you have those files and I think that's one of the most important things for me personally too, just to keep everything backed up and know what's going on. But enlighten me, because I really don't know, like did you spend a lot of time working in studios before the pandemic? Like what was your experience like?    Anne: Oh, good question. So I started, gosh, I started back in the early 2000s doing voiceover, and that was when a home studio was like just a thought. It was not a requirement, it was just a thought. And you used to go to local studios to record things, and you would get your jobs based upon auditioning with either studios, or you could audition and then you would select a studio and you would rent space there, or you might be on a roster for a studio. So it's very interesting because as technology evolved and online became a thing and online casting became a thing, then all of a sudden home studios became a thing. Actually back in the day with Don LaFontaine, right, having to travel LA traffic all the time, he became, I think one of the first proponents of doing things remotely in a studio using ISDN technology.    So that I think really spurred everybody else on to start to get home studios because there's so many variables when you record in a studio. But the good thing about recording in a studio is that you go there and everything is beautiful, everything is sound -- everything is, well maybe not sound proof, but everything is optimized for recording so you didn't have to worry about it. And so for me, all of a sudden having to create a home studio or a space for me to record and sound good -- I'm not an audio engineer by trade, I didn't really study it in school. So for me that was a big hurdle in the beginning of my voiceover career. And I know it still is for voice talent that are coming up through the ranks, because that's not necessarily what we studied. We didn't study audio engineering. And of course it's a whole field.    So (laughs), it's not an easy field. And to set up a space in your home so that it can sound as good as a professional studio is really tough. So in the beginning when I went to studios to record and do my jobs, it was great, except for there was always the stress. Can I book the time in the studio? And if I had the time booked for me in the studio, that was great. All I had to do was make sure I got there on time. And then that became a stressful thing for me because of possible traffic. And back in the day, I didn't live in the LA area, but I did live in the New York area. And so traffic anywhere, just the stress of getting to the studio on time, 'cause that's the last thing. You know, that was the one piece of advice that everybody gave to starting voice talent was that don't be late, don't be late to your studio time. You wanna make sure that you show up and you're professional.    But you certainly didn't have to stress about anything other than just performing in front of the mic. And I think that was a big plus for going into studios. And people still go into studios today. And I know I love it when, even if I'm remotely connecting to a studio, I have the engineer taking care of all the sounds and levels and the files, and there's just so much to think about when you are at your home studio. And I'm rambling on here, but it's also a thing that when we are in our home studios, we have to think about things like, okay, well, it's our time to open those files, save the files, upload the files, send the files to our client, edit those files. And so that's something that when you don't go to a studio is now the responsibility of the voice actor.    Gillian: Well, that's crazy (laughs). I mean obviously a lot of these things I know to some extent and it seems like there's so many pros and cons for both. I mean, just hearing you talk about it, obviously we know showing up to record and not having to record yourself, it takes a burden off of it.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: Because I record myself. I mean, I'm not a voice actor by any means, not at all. But I've been working on my music for my whole life, and I think when I was like 12 or 13 I got a little ProTools CD and like a tiny interface and that was what started it and the convenience of being at home. But really it is such a treat to go into a studio.   Anne: It's a luxury. I think I consider it a luxury.    Gillian: But also hearing you talk about it, I feel performance-wise, it's gotta be easier to deliver when you're not stressed about getting there on time, you're not stressed about, you know, needing to be in front of other people. I know for myself, I love recording myself, especially when I'm doing singing or vocals because it's super vulnerable and sometimes I don't wanna have to do that in front of somebody else, especially someone I don't know, a stranger. Like, it's a little bit more difficult. But it is interesting because I work at a lot of music studios, so we don't do a ton of voiceover, but whenever we do, we always apologize to the voice talent, 'cause we have this entire gigantic beautiful studio, and we're like, okay, we're gonna give you one mic, we're gonna stick you in the corner 'cause it has the best isolation and close the door, and that's where you're gonna get to go.    'Cause it really is true. You need a good mic, you need a good setup. But voice actors don't need that whole setup. And so I guess the question or conversation is gonna be about how do you take the pros of a pro studio and incorporate them into your home studio setup and make it so that you don't wish you were at the studio. You have everything you need right there.    Anne: Yeah, yeah. It's a journey, for sure, for a voice actor, because again, I don't have the audio engineering education that you do. I know how to perform behind the mic. And so I just remember for me setting up my initial home studios --and I didn't have an ear either for it. I think when you first begin, you just don't have an ear for what good sound sounds like, and I would record and I didn't think anything of it and sent my file off to someone and they're like, mm, yeah, no Anne, that's not gonna do, that's not acceptable. And I was mortified and then it was like, wow. So what do I have to do to make my studio produce sound that is viable for my client?    Gillian: Yes, definitely an interesting conversation and thought just because it's true, like voice actors, they do have to fill the role of the audio engineer. I do believe that. But I also don't think that all voice actors need to be audio engineers.    Anne: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I agree.    Gillian: You need to know how to record yourself. You need to know how to see if you're clipping, if you're too quiet to hear, a little bit of distortion or hear if your voice just isn't sounding right. And obviously, you know, with auditions you have to edit, you have to make it sound comparable to the other auditions and maybe a final product. But really I feel like if you tell someone who's not an audio engineer, or if you told me five years ago before I was really an audio engineer, you have to do this, it's so overwhelming. So I feel like talking about what people actually need to know, versus what you hire a professional for, or what you just kind of say, okay, this is a setting within my DAW that does not pertain to me. I don't need to be using this to get proper file delivery -- I feel like that's really important for people to just, I think make peace with. Because if you spent all your time trying to learn how to be an audio engineer, you would have no time to be a voice talent or to be doing what you actually wanna be doing.    Anne: So true, so true. So then I think maybe starting from square one, if BOSSes out there are just getting started, and I know I work with people who are just getting started in the industry, and they'll connect to me for their sessions in an office with a headset, and there will be no studio whatsoever, and they will be okay, I'm building my studio. So for me, I will always say to them, well, I certainly have a ton of people that I can recommend to you that can help you build that studio.    But there are certain principles that I know, like I can now hear if they have good sound or not. And I think the first thing to consider is, in your home, like where is a quiet area? And I know that's such a lofty question to ask, but in reality what I've learned is that if you can go somewhere inside your home that's maybe on an inside wall, maybe something that's not necessarily externally connected or near windows or near doorways or near sounds that can turn on — I mean I thought I was really great in the beginning going into my office closet, but unfortunately I found that it was very close to where I would hear water when the toilet flushed upstairs. So it was like one of those things I kept hearing noises. And so I think the first thing is to find that spot in your home that is quiet and also yet convenient to a place where you can put a microphone and also your computer, 'cause you do need your interface, your computer and your microphone.    So where can you put that and set that down so that you can record in a space and also have the functionality of being able to record into your computer, and then obviously hit the start record, stop, record, and all that stuff. And also wear a pair of headphones in the beginning so that you can kind of find out what your sound is like. All those things that people don't think about, they're like, well, I'm gonna put my studio here in my closet, but then all of a sudden their desk is like at the other side of the room, and they don't have a long enough cable.    It could be that simple, right? (laughs) They don't have a long enough cable for their headphones, and then they're like, well what do I do? Or they don't have a long enough cable for their interface is sitting on desk completely across the room, and then well do they bring the interface into the room? So it becomes all these different questions. But I think understanding that your spot in your home I think needs to be in a quiet area first. Maybe not near a window or not near anything that's within a wall that could be making noise like a heater or air conditioning or a generator, that kind of thing. What are your thoughts on that, Gillian?    Gillian: It's so funny 'cause the like doing vocals in a closet or whatever, it's a cliche because it works. Having the padding of the clothing and typically that ends up being a quiet spot in your house, but it's not sustainable to work in your closet forever. And all those things that you mentioned are totally important. You have to have a computer, all of those things. And don't take me for an example if anyone's watching the video; I'm in my office. I don't do recording in here, but I'm like by a window by a ton of noise. It's terrible. But I think finding the right spot to get set up in is totally important.    But the most important thing I think, and you can let me know what you think, but for the most part for doing voiceover work, obviously you need a microphone, but your computer, your internet connection, those are like hugely important things because how fast your computer is, how good it is at processing audio speeds, how well it connects to your interface — like all of those super technical things within — I know I have like a brand new MacBook — those are gonna really matter for how your audio sounds when you deliver it to clients. And you can have the nicest setup in the world, but if you don't have internet, or I know a lot of people also do like ethernet connections, you're not gonna make it to the job. Obviously if you're just auditioning and sending it later, that's a different scenario. But I mean, how important is it to you to obviously be able to connect to clients? That's like the number one.    Anne: Well, I think that's probably one of the most overlooked aspects of being a successful voice actor is your internet. And especially now with needing to have high capacity audio recording features like Source Connect or ipDTL or whatever connection you might be using to get to a studio — that's if you're connecting to a studio -- you need to have a reliable internet connection. And I remember I very much was adamant when I came to my new place here, because it was being built, I specified that there were three specific ethernet jacks placed on the wall, on each wall. So literally I made sure that I had ethernet hardwired, connected before I moved in because I knew it was gonna be easiest to do it then.    Because the people who move into homes, and they don't have ethernet connections, then they usually have to hire an electrician or somebody that can find out that they can run the wire through the wall to get to their modem or their router, or they have to move the router into their office and then other things become a problem. So ethernet and your hardwire connections are so important. And I don't see the technologies advancing anytime soon. Like wireless technology is great and convenient, but it's still not as great as a straight wired connection. I mean you cannot beat an ethernet connection or a fiber connection to your router that gets your data there fast.    Gillian: I think it's just sturdiness. It's true, wifi goes out or it's finicky sometimes. So those are are really important things. And obviously having the foresight to know that you need to have ethernet and all those things installed is really important. But for the people that didn't think about this, are already living somewhere, don't know what to do, find a spot where you feel comfortable, find a spot that's kind of away from extraneous noise. And I personally don't think, if you're just starting out in voiceover, you need to splurge on a booth or anything right away. I think there's a ton of DIY options that we can talk about, but I think that's also a lot of pressure, or at least from what I'm hearing. I'm also like half in the voiceover world, half out of it. So there's a lot of questions that I'm probably gonna have for you about like why people say certain things. And I know kind of random but kind of on the conversation is a lot of audio people that I know are very adamant about not updating your computer or having really, really old hardware. I understand the processes --   Anne: To support the equipment, right?   Gillian: -- behind it. Yeah. But I personally don't live that way. I update my computer. I have new stuff and there are times, like when I, I updated to a newer version of ProTools or a new version of Mac, like the Mac OS that was not supportive of ProTools, and I had a couple weeks where it was having a little bit of bugs, which is frustrating. But definitely for security of myself and all of the other things going on in my life, I don't think that you need to be using a 2010 computer.    Anne: Well, I agree. Normally I would agree with you 'cause I worked in technology for like 20 years. I would always say --   Gillian: No, no, tell me.    Anne: Update. Update.    Gillian: I'm not saying that right. This is just the way that I work. (laughs)    Anne: Update, and I love being updated to the latest and the greatest 'cause I figure it's getting rid of a lot of bugs. However, sometimes when Apple doesn't update, because I work with Apples, it's not conducive to working with my hardware for my studio. So my Apollo, which is my interface, and I have backup interfaces, but right now the latest release of Mac OS is not compatible with it. And I can't afford to struggle for two weeks. I need to have something that allows me to connect and record. And so I will wait on the update until I find out -- I usually check all the -- there's a lot of great groups out there on the internet that talk about should you update your hardware for this new release? Is it compatible with the latest release for the Apollo? And I think it's wise to keep your eyes on that.    I don't think you should be 10 releases behind for sure. But (laughs), I do think that before you upgrade, to just take a look and ask around to see if things are compatible. That's important, especially if you're required to record every day in your studio, and you don't wanna have to go to your backup recording. And that's the other thing too is that I'm very much into having a backup recording setup, because I've had things happen to me enough times. But people just starting off getting into voice acting, they probably don't even have their first setup (laughs) set up, let alone a backup set of equipment.    Gillian: So let me just talk to you on that for a second. I personally don't have any Apollo, Apollo or UAD stuff for that reason because I'm so nervous to be stuck without it. And I totally agree with you, because when I updated my computer without realizing that ProTools -- I mean I'm fortunate enough that I have five or six other places that I can go use ProTools. It wasn't like -- and it was working. It just, there were certain plug-ins that weren't working. But that's not the end of the world.    Anne: Right.    Gillian: But the lesson that I learned from that was, oh my gosh, never update without checking because it's true all the programs that you're using -- and I think within Apple they will say what is compatible and what's not compatible with these new releases, and that is totally smart person way to do it. And you get burned to realize that you can't do it, which is what happened to me and I'm sure has happened to you.    Anne: You only have to get burned once. Right?    Gillian: You get burned once and then you're like, this sucks. I'm so dumb, I have my features and now I can't do my job.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: Which is sucky.    Anne: Exactly.    Gillian: So learn from our mistakes, don't make your own. But there are some people, and I've met them, people that I work with too -- I mean one of these studios, we had a 10 years old ProTools rig, and when you get into the large professional studios, they are upwards of like $10-, $20-, $30,000 for new ProTools rig like expensive.    Anne: Oh yeah. And I'm sure that's why they don't upgrade to the latest and greatest all the time.    Gillian: Well, the old system was super sturdy, was working really well. And then we upgraded and there were some glitches and bugs and things that come with updating. I don't know why. I just heard people that I work with grumbling like, ah, you know, the old system was so great, now we have the new system and it keeps crashing. And so the, there is this conversation about not upgrading for like 10 years. I don't know if you've heard that within audio engineers.    Anne: That's a long time. Yeah.    Gillian: So if anyone is giving you that advice, I'm just gonna give you the counter-advice so that you can take both of them and make an educated choice about what you wanna be doing. You don't need to be doing what I'm doing and have the newest stuff. If you have an Apollo, you definitely can't always have the most updated, because it's a little bit behind and everything that's not within Apple will always be a little bit behind. But just make your own choices, people. (laughs) Listen to us, gather the info and make a good choice.    Anne: Yeah. Make an educated choice. And I, and I agree like there's always that fine line of when do you update your technology, like when does that happen? And I'm very used to just from my previous jobs -- I mean I was always living on the edge. I was always trying the new stuff. And so I'm very bold when it comes to trying new stuff. But I'm also smart enough, I've been burned enough times to know that I need backups of everything and then backups of the backups. And so I'm actually really thankful for that experience. And BOSSes out there, I say backups of backups, backups of your files, backups of your equipment, backups of your internet connection, because the one time will come when you really need it, and you won't have that backup. And that only has to happen once. I'm so old, it's happened to me multiple times.    So I feel good that I've learned from it. And so while I feel as though I'm really close to the edge on everything I possibly can be, I'm also smart about when to get on that edge with equipment and stuff that I need on a day-to-day basis. So yeah, absolutely. So when you're looking for that space in your home, that quiet space, that space that's comfortable for you and also hopefully quiet for you, right, for that home studio, then you start preparing it, right, acoustically. So Gillian, what can people do to prepare their home studios acoustically? What sorts of things can they do to have sound absorption? Like if they're in a closet, obviously they can have their clothing which is a great absorber of sound. What other things can they use?    Gillian: There are a ton of things that you can use. I know there's a few DIY boots in the sense that they're not thousands and thousands of dollars. They're like some PVC pipe and some packing blankets that will kind of isolate you, which is great.    Anne: Sure.    Gillian: I think the issue with the way that homes are built versus how sound works is you get the windows, you get all the boxy walls, and you have all these parallel surfaces, and you talk, and all the sound just bounces from side to side to side. So the whole point of having treatment on the walls and treatment around you is to stop all of that reverberation --   Anne: Reflection.    Gillian: Yeah. And the reflections. And just capture it. And really a lot of studios will be built with like diagonal walls and all of these things to just go against it. I have never built a studio, so I can't say that I've done it, but I've been in a lot of places where I'm like, that wall's really weird. Why is it like that?    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: And of course it's not for aesthetic, it's for sound. So just making, making sure that you are blocking yourself from any windows are really reflective, just any sort of padding on the walls would be really -- I mean I see yours, all of your stuff in the background. For anyone who's watching, Anne has all those nice little --   Anne: Panels.    Gillian: Yeah. The sound panels that just absorb everything. And there's also these things that we use in studios that I haven't seen any voice actors use, so I'm gonna have to ask you about it. They're like reflection filters. Have you ever heard of them?    Anne: Does that go on a mic?    Gillian: It goes on a mic stand.    Anne: Yes, I have. I have.   Gillian: Have you seen I them?    Anne: Yeah, I have seen them and I have not had good success with them, and I actually hate them. I hate them with a passion.    Gillian: Okay, tell me about it because I'm just curious.    Anne: I think that they can work nicely in a studio that already has some acoustic absorption built into it. And then if it's in a large area, if it's in a large space and you need a little bit more, I think that they can work nicely. However, what most voice actors try to do is use it for their studio and then it just becomes the only thing that is used, and it becomes very close to the mic. And first of all, they're really bulky on the stands. I had something called a reflection filter and I paid a good amount of money for it. And like 300 some odd dollars and that was 10 years ago.    Gillian: Wow.    Anne: And it was very bulky. It weighted my microphone stand in a way that kept falling over. And then also it did not create the kind of sound absorption that I liked because it wasn't enough. It just wasn't enough. And then it became inhibitive in a way because I felt like I had something like right here in front of my face. It was very close, and I feel like it just didn't do a good enough job 'cause I think your absorption material needs to be thick.    Gillian: Yeah.    Anne: And so when they make the reflection filters, it's either thick or even if it's not thick, then it's not enough absorption, I don't believe. One thing that I learned through the years of going through, I'm gonna say, three or four different versions of a home studio is -- and by the way, the window, believe it or not, my studio right now is built in an office. It's a room within a room and right in in front of me.    Gillian: Great.    Anne: A room in a room is great.    Gillian: Yeah.    Anne: Right in front of me is a wall that had a side window on it. And we actually, before we built the studio, we frosted the window so it wouldn't look silly because we had a studio in front of it, and people would just look at a piece of plywood or (laughs), you know, so it wasn't attractive. So we frosted the window and then we actually put Rockwool insulation and then a drywall on the out. So we created a whole encasement for the window.    Gillian: Wow.    Anne: So that that blocked any potential sound that could potentially get in. And then we put the studio right up against it. And so that's how we blocked our window. So we made sure there was absolutely no way that sound could get in from the outside on these walls. So it's a room within a room. And so my acoustic panels are four inches thick. And they have Rockwool insulation and that's something you can get at Home Depot. It's awesome. It's really cost effective. It's not expensive. And these were all DIY panels that were made. And I'm gonna give a big shout out to Tim Tippetts. He's got a great YouTube video on how to make them. They're all four inches thick and they sit just slightly off the wall.    Gillian: Yeah.    Anne: So that way you have a little bit of spacing in between the panels and the wall for the sound to kind of just -- if it bounces on that wall, it'll come back in through the panel, which is four inches thick. So that you get I think the highest amount of sound absorption that you can using the panels. And if they aren't using the panels and they're using blankets, again, those blankets are giving you a certain level of absorption. Not quite as much I think as the four inch thick panels with Rockwool in there, but again, it's your choice. And I hang them everywhere. I have a ton of them in here. I also have clouds that are up above me with the same kind of thing. And then outside of my studio, because I want the outside of my studio to be quiet as well, I also have panels hung out there as well.    Gillian: See, that is just like an impressive setup, and thank you, Tim Tippetts. I know he was the previous BOSS audio guest, and that's awesome that he did all of those things for your studio. And that's just what I would say the difference between a Pro VO setup and a beginner VO setup. You gotta start somewhere, and I think that isolation is really important. And obviously, any advice we give, and this will be what I keep saying on the series, is just take what we say and apply it to your situation. Because unless we're working one-on-one, like either Anne or I working with you, there's no way to know exactly what your situation is.    But when you're starting out, I think that — I mean even if a few people built those things that Tim has a video on it and built those panels and just had them in your home office, behind you, around you, it'll help. You don't need to start with a room within a room, even though that's an amazing setup and it sounds great. And all studios are built with rooms within rooms and floating floors so that there's no sound coming from the outside world. But yeah, I think we got a really good foundation of home studio verse pro studio, how to get your space set up. And I think on the next episode, we should really dive in for the BOSSes on like what you need for a beginner home studio setup. What do you think?    Anne: Absolutely. So guys, when you are thinking about getting into voice acting, you must also think about where in your home is a good place for that studio, because you can have an amazing voice, but if you can't deliver the audio, a good quality audio to your client, you're not gonna be a very successful voice actor. So absolutely very important. But one thing I will say to give you all hope, in case you're overwhelmed at this point, is that once you get a home studio setup, like I have a home studio setup, you're pretty much good to go. I mean, your stress is over. You don't have to worry about it much after that, outside of your equipment failing, but your space, if your space is set up, it's set up, right?    Gillian: The investment is forever.    Anne: Right? Yeah. Foregoing any kind of natural disaster, right, or emergency, it stands and it will absorb your sound appropriately, and you won't have to worry about it again. So that's what I love (laughs).    Gillian: Yeah. And I love, Anne, all you shared with me because obviously I work in all these big studios, but I can't say that I've been given a tour of anyone's booth yet (laughs). So you know, hearing how you set it up and all of those things, I think it'd be great for BOSSes to know, and you taught me a little bit today too.    Anne: Awesome. Well, Gillian, thank you so much. I'm looking forward to our next episode. BOSSes, simple mission, big impact, 100 voices, one hour, $10,000 four times a year. BOSSes, visit 100Voiceswhocare.org to join in. All right. Also, a big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes, like Gillian and I; find out more at ipdtl.com. Thanks so much, guys. We'll see you next week. Bye.    Gillian: Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Long before you lay eyes on your next script, you should be thinking about how your improv skills can help you stand out. Anne & Lau share their practical advice for integrating improv into your voice over work + act out some improved scenes for the Bosses! Improv is about being in the moment and responding to what is happening around you. Rehearsed speech sounds unnatural and stilted because it doesn’t reflect the way people actually speak. If a script is written the way you’d like it to be written, great! But if it isn’t written that way, then it is still your responsibility to make it believable. Improv requires imagination & creativity, which are both important elements of succeeding as a voice actor. Bosses, your voices are vehicles for storytelling, emotion, and world building.   Transcript   It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I have with me my very special guest co-host Lau Lapides.    Lau: Hey Anne.    Anne: Hey Lau. How are you?    Lau: I'm awesome. Great to be back.    Anne: Ah, it's good to have you back Lau.    Lau: Okay, here's the situation. Ready? Here we go. You just bought a car, and you're picking it up for the first time. They even sprayed that new car smell. And it's shining and gorgeous. Had a little bow on top. Give me a moment of pre-life. Like what's the exclamation you make before you speak?    Anne: (screams) Oh my God, I'm so excited! I can't wait to get my car today!    Lau: Oh, and I would do this. I would go, ooooh, I'm so excited. I can't wait to get my car today.    Anne: I think it was important. I had some good physicality back there behind my mic here.    Lau: We both did. We both were like exploding.    Anne: So what is that, BOSSes? What are we talking about? Mmm?   Lau: Mmm, I think that's improv city right there. Improv.    Anne: Improv. So, so important to everything we do. I'm gonna say so important because, it really helps us. Would you say Lau, 90%, if not more, of casting specs are calling for believable, authentic, real? And I think honestly, in order for us to be real (laughs), improv is so very important to be able to create what's happening in the scene, your reaction, your emotion. I mean, that's really what makes us stand out from all the other people auditioning. Right?    Lau: Right. I mean, speakers in the larger world outside of our industry, call it impromptu speaking, being able to think off the cuff, think on your feet, being able to think on the fly. Every time you hear someone say that, we know it's a tough skill for people. We know it's not a natural ability for most people to be under these unnatural circumstances and just think on the fly. Right? But it's a great tool, right, for voiceover talent to be able to do that.    Anne: And you need it for everything. Guys, I don't want you to think that this is just for, I don't know, video games or character animation. You need improv for everything you do, including medical narration. Just saying. I’m like the biggest proponent of being in the scene, because we are so used to -- I think, those of you that just got into voiceover and you don't necessarily have acting experience — we're so used to picking up a piece of paper with words and reading the words out loud, and listen to what I just said. We're used to taking a look at the piece of paper and reading the words out loud. And that's what you don't wanna do, right, as a voiceover actor. You want to be in a scene. You want to sound as if you are there and speaking authentically and naturally and believably.    And so you can't just pick up a piece of paper with words that you've never seen before and just read them from left to right. You always have to put yourself in a scene. And that includes -- gosh, when I'm doing telephony script, and I'm saying thank you for calling. Like I put myself in a scene. I want people to really feel as though I'm thankful that they've called me (laughs). And improv helps me do that.    Lau: Yes. And you know, a lot of times people will say to me, but Lau, I don't get it. Like, I can't improv as a voiceover talent. Everything is scripted. They're never gonna ask me to improv when I'm auditioning or when I'm doing a gig. So why do I need to know this? I say, well, wait a second. What about all your prep time? You and I were just talking about this, Anne, how important it is to think of yourselves as an actor. You're a voice actor; you're acting a role. So when you're acting, you have to have technique, tools and technique to call upon to find your character development. How do I find that? So improvisation is a tool that helps us find the authentic, true character, sound, connection, quality, tones. It helps us find that. And then once we find it, we can pull it out like just outta your toolbox. You can pull it out whenever you wanna use it. And just that exercise we just did right now, the pre-life of exclamation, just that can potentially book you a gig.    Anne: Oh gosh, yes. And it's so interesting because I tell my students all the time, I'm like, okay, what's your moment before? Right? And I could be referencing a script that is the driest corporate narration script in the world. And it makes no sense because in the real world, I would never say these words. And that's what I constantly get from -- I would never say these words in the real world. But okay, we're not in the real world. Okay? We're acting. And we need to create the world in which those words would sound natural. And even if they're not written naturally, you have to create the scene.    And that I think, is so important. You're not preparing the script to sound a particular way. You can read the specs, and they're like, oh, we want youthful, millennial, or maybe sound with gravitas. Stop preparing that sound. What you need to do is to prepare the character, prepare the scene, prepare what's happening that's going to make you react, right, in such a way. that might portray those characteristics that are being called out. And I have so many students that get frustrated. I'll say, what's your moment before? And they'll be like, uh, I have no clue. Like, doesn't say anything in the script. Guess what, guys? Here's where you got — your imagination comes into play, right?    Lau: Yes.    Anne: So important. The imagination in developing a scene, develop a scene that makes sense to you.    Lau: Yes. And improv is an acting tool. It's an actor technique. And it's very challenging to do improv and be lazy. Like you can't be lazy and do improv well, because you're talking imagination. It has to kick in and connect. And oftentimes that requires energy, focus and speed in order to do that. And it's hard to do it if you're not engaged, if you're tired, if you're lazy, if you're disconnected. We oftentimes will get feedback for an actor from like casting that will say, ah, I don't like it. They feel disconnected, they don't feel connected somehow. And I always think of improv, 'cause improv is a wonderful source of connection to another person. How do we credibly and authentically connect to another person? Well, we practice it. It sounds like an oxymoron. You have to practice improv, but you do. You do.    Anne: You do. Absolutely.   Lau: You have to practice that skill. Right, Anne?    Anne: Absolutely. And the improv doesn't just happen at the beginning of the script. It's not just something you do to give yourself some pre-roll. Okay? Because if you start a script, and I say this constantly, especially with long format narration, when you are voicing something for a long period of time, you're in a scene, you need to stay in that scene. You can't just create the scene and then just read. Right? Because all too often people will create the scene, they'll be at the start of it, and then they will do a monologue. It becomes a monologue where they forget that there might be other things happening in the scene, or there might be other people in the scene that they're acting with. And just because they're behind the mic, right, and they're not physically there -- like if they were on stage, it would be easy to see that you're with somebody, right? And you're bouncing ideas off of somebody, and it's a back and forth, like a real improv class or a workshop.    But behind the mic, I think we tend to forget that there's other people in that scene with us. There's other things happening. There's movement. And if you are in a monologue, right -- I feel like monologues, unless they're extremely well written, right, are not as engaging (laughs) unless they're extremely well written. There are a lot of scripts that are not necessarily written for monologue. Right? It's like, here's my speech on this product, and you know what I mean? Like, here's my monologue about the product. Now how engaging is that? Right? If somebody's not interested in the product, you have to get them interested in the product. It has to be a story. And that story has to happen in between the sentences too. Right? You cannot stop just at the beginning.    Lau: Okay, I have a great improv. I have a great improv based off what you just said. All right. Peeps, listen in. Sell the product, whatever it is that is on your script. Sell the product or service. And do it completely in your own words. Like get rid of the script. Completely re-envision it. But remember, it's not just about saying the words or the lines. You have to persuade us. Like you have to make it feel like this is something that's super important to you, that you believe in and that you want us to know about. Right? So whether it's like a blouse or a car, or a cheese, or whatever it is, I would love to hear you talk about that from your own perspective, your own point of view, and really connect to it. And a lot of times, I know you get this, Anne, in coaching too, “but I don't, I don't eat cheese,” “I don't wear blouses; I'm a guy,” and“I don't drive cars.” Especially like that.    Anne: Yeah. I don't care much about the brand. I always get people that say, yeah, no, I don't really worry about brands. I'm like, okay. But for a living, you might be selling a particular brand. And so it's important, right, that you're educated about the brand, or you have to have some interest in it. You have to have some passion in it. And by passion, I don't mean overextended passion or over the top passion, unless it's called for, right, in the script. Because a lot of times for us to be believable and authentic, we have to sound authentic. So am I constantly like, oh my God, this product is amazing! I mean, I can't be that. Right? I can't. But I need to be as authentic as I can in my improv, right, in selling that product.    Lau: Well, you know, we should do, Anne? We should demo, we should do a quick demo. We should take something like a, an object, a simple object. We should have like a a 15 or 30-second conversation about that object.    Anne: Okay. So I always (laughs), I always have my lipstick. Okay. I always have my product here.    Lau: Okay. And the listener, maybe someone who doesn't wear a lipstick or doesn't care about lipstick, or maybe you're a man listening in, you don't ever -- okay, that's fine. But we're gonna have a conversation right now, Anne, about that. And it's all improv, right?    Anne: Okay, okay. So Lau. All right, so this Chanel, okay, typically inexpensive brand, right? Typically, most people will say, oh, it's way — this, this lipstick might be way overpriced. However, for me, I love this lipstick. I love this lipstick because I only have to put it on once. And so to me, the savings of time for this is amazing. I don't have to continually reapply my lipstick. I can drink water, I can eat, and I don't have to put it on over and over again. And it just stays on and it looks good. What are your thoughts? Would you, would you pay, would you pay $34 for this?    Lau: I would pay more than that, because I'm looking at it on your lips right now, and it's gorgeous. I love the gloss, I love the staying power. The color matches your skin tone perfectly.    Anne: And look, I can drink.    Lau: I love it. And you can drink, right? And it probably doesn't even leave residue on the cup.   Anne: And it’s still there. And it doesn't feel dry.    Lau: It's still there.    Anne: It doesn't feel dry.    Lau: And I think it's economical for what it's offering you.    Anne: Well, right?   Lau: I would get it.    Anne: My time is worth money, right? And if it, and if this is gonna save me time, right, from reapplying lipstick, or if it's gonna give me confidence because I feel like, oh God, you know how some lipstick will just kind of, you know, come off your lips, and you'll only have like a portion of on your lips, and then all of a sudden you get in the car and you look at yourself in the rearview mirror and you're like, oh my God! (laughs), my lips look horrible.    Lau: They’re gone.   Anne: Why didn't, why didn't my best friend tell me about that? So this, I don't have to worry about that. And so the ease, my mind being eased that I don't have to worry that it's come off and it's flaked off and it looks weird, or it's, God forbid, it's on my teeth. (laughs). No, it doesn't happen.    Lau: You took the words right outta my mouth. I was gonna say, your lipstick is never on your teeth. I'm impressed by that alone, and the fact that it's not all over your face like mine can be, by the end of the day, my lips are all over, you know, everywhere. So I, I just think that it's very cool for you to hold on to this and not go to other products, but really stay with it. Because it works, right?    Anne: Have I convinced you?    Lau: Now here's the thing. It's like, we do this in our daily life, right? We do this every day in our daily life.    Anne: That was improv. That was -- by the way, BOSSes, that was improv by the way.    Lau: That's all improv.    Anne: And that, I think if you are absolutely thinking about how would I sell this product? Like how would I voice this product? I mean, you can just riff (laughs), you know, I really love this product because it's amazing. And the funny thing is, is that Lau, you and I had a back and forth. And I think for improv, you have to also improv, if you don't have anybody with you and you are trying to improv your audition, I think you create that second person that you're having the conversation with. It's very much a technique that I use to sound conversational and just sound natural or believable, is to actually play a part with somebody else.    Because that's what you would do -- if you had a script and you were on stage, you'd be able to bounce your ideas back and forth. There would be an acknowledgement or a smile, or a nod or a conversation between two people. And so you have that movement, you have that scene that you can then improv, right? And once you improv, your voice takes on, especially like with you and I, it takes on the emotion and the point of view, which really, really brings out a script versus a read. This lipstick is wonderful, right? Versus, I mean, I'm like a robot saying that, but when I'm really like, oh, this is amazing, this is wonderful — it completely shows up in my voice. And so the fact that I've created in my mind this improv back and forth with my imaginary person that I'm telling about this lipstick is really makes all the difference.    Lau: It does. It does, Anne, because that's the power of improv. It's the personalization of it. When you're gonna say to me, but I don't use lipstick, Lau. I don't wear makeup -- I'd say, that's okay. Now let's engage your imagination. What if, — the magic “what if,” right? Stanislavsky's magic if -- what if you did wear makeup? What if you did wear lipstick? You know, when you were a little kid, you thought that way. And you weren't wearing lipstick or makeup (laughs).That's the irony, right?    Anne: And here's the deal. Transfer this lipstick into, let's say, a Halloween costume, right? You put green on your face if you were gonna be be the Incredible Hulk or, whatever that is, right? So consider that, make that part of your imaginative world, right? And how did that make you feel? I think there's always that, like, did it make you feel confident? Did it make you feel good? Were you excited to go show that off to your friends? And how does that translate in your voice? How does that make you sound — first of all, it's gonna make you sound connected, right?    Because when you're disconnected from the material, right, there's no emotion flowing in that voice. There's no emotion in that word. There's so many technical things that happen to words when you inflect an emotion onto them, or a point of view, right? So it's like, this is amazing. Like just the fact, amazing. Like I, it's not like I didn't say, this is amazing. No. I said, this is amazing. And so the rhythm changed, the intonation changed, so many technical things changed about my voice. And that is something when a casting director is listening to you, right? That is going to hit their ears and go, ah, there's an actor. And I swear to God, right? We know, for the first few words out of the mouth, we know if you're acting.    Lau: Oh, yeah.    Anne: Right?    Lau: Oh, yeah. And start with something that is known to you, personalize it to you, like give yourself a quick scenario that you lived, that you know, if it's possible. So let's go back to the lipstick, Anne. Let's say I'm a man, right? Or someone who doesn't wear lipstick or whatever. Okay. But my favorite aunt wears lipstick, and every time she would kiss me, I would literally smell it. I would smell the lipstick, I would notice the color of it. I always think of that color when I think of my aunt. So I'm personalizing it into something I know, and something that means something to me so that I can go into other scenarios that are a bit farther away from me.    Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely.   Lau: But if I don't start with any frame of reference at all, then I get that falseness, I get that falsehood of like, let me just sound like I love lipstick.    Anne: This lipstick — yeah, exactly. And I think that voice actors, if you're just getting into the industry and you're not realizing just how important this is to really make your auditions stand out and make you connect with the copy -- it's incredibly, incredibly important that you spend time. Like I know so many people are like, oh, I did 60 auditions today, or I did a billion auditions today. Well, I want you to take five minutes before you start, before anything comes out of your mouth (laughs). And I want you to first of all, research the product. If you know what the product is. Sometimes you don't know what the product is. Sometimes the script is obscure and you're not exactly sure what it is. And that makes it even more challenging for you to improv, right? Because you're trying to figure out what is this even talking about? And I know that's just the case for a lot of audition scripts that come along and we don't know what it's even talking about.    So then what we have to do is look at that script even closer. Every single word on that script has a meaning. And it may seem that you have no idea what it's talking about, and it's ridiculous. But honestly, somebody was paid probably a lot of money (laughs) to sit there and write every single word to create that brand message or to get that brand message out. And you need to really look at those words and think, what do they mean? What could it mean? And can I improv a scene, right, so that they would sound logical and realistic and have meaning and create emotion?   Lau: Absolutely. And let's say you don't do this at all. Let's say you say, I can't do improv at all. I can just do the lines --do this. This is a very famous actor method. Do substitution. Like how do I get to something personal? Let me take this little thing of lipstick. I have my own on my side, lipstick on my side. And this is no longer a lipstick. What this is to me is an EpiPen. So this EpiPen can save my child's life when she has a problem and get stung by a bee. And you say, well, how does that work? It's lipstick. I said, well, I can still do an improv with Anne and talk about this as if it's an EpiPen, but it'll sound like, I can't live without this. I really can't live without this. I always have this in my cabinet ready to go. Day or night, it goes with me. And you'd think I was talking about the lipstick. But I'm really talking about the EpiPen.    Anne: Sure, absolutely.    Lau: Try that in terms of your improv in your daily life, when you need to connect with someone's situation, someone's stuff that they're bringing up that you don't really have any idea about. You haven't lived through it, you don't use it. You don't know about it. And you ask them questions about it. But think about what that is to you in your life. What's the substitution in your life that connects to what they're talking about? That's how powerful improv can be. It can make you friends. It can win you jobs. It can make you a lot of money.   Anne: And something else that can help you -- I feel like I see this every episode, Lau — Google is your friend. Anne GanGoogle, right? Google is your friend. Like if you, if there's any indication of what you're talking about in the script, or there's words in there that you're not sure what it's even about, Google. I mean, I can't tell you how helpful it is to --if you're not familiar with the brand and the brand name is there, you can go to the website, and you'll get a great visual representation of what that is and who they might serve. And that will also help you to place your improv and place your scene in a place that's logical.    I mean, it has to be logical, right? I mean, you want it to sound natural and believable. And so you should have a little bit of education about the product or the company, or maybe what's their demographic? Are they selling to young people? Are they selling to a more mature audience? And that can help inform the scene for you that you are going to create. But you must, you must use your brain. And it's not easy, right? It is sometimes it is. Like I rack my brain trying to figure out what is this saying? Like I don't even know. This is so ethereal and so out there that I don't even know what this is saying. But I, I find that if I keep rereading the lines, somewhere along the line, if I look at the important nouns, if I look at the objects, if I look at the emotion of it all, I can really read more into it to try to figure out, okay, this would make sense. Now, if this was a storyline where somebody was upset that something wasn't going right, and this product -- like the EpiPen, right -- was truly meaningful and could really help save a life.    And so I think if you just continually look at the words, see how the words fit together, and then if you have any clues whatsoever in the script, go ahead and Google it. And that's gonna help you find out maybe what the brand is. What do they actually do? Do they serve multiple demographics? What are the colors? I mean, you can just go into like the visually, what are the colors on the website? What is their tone of voice on the webpage? You know, the verbiage on the webpage? How do they approach their clients? And I think that will really help to help you build the scene that you must improv.    Lau: Yeah. And if you go to their YouTube channel, you're gonna see visuals of what the culture is like, what the sound, feeling, environment is like. I mean, put yourself in that environment. That's the old actor Johnny Depp type exercise where the method actors would always go to the place that their character is in and just feel what the place feels like. Well that's kind of important because if I'm doing a lot of corporate work, and I'm getting a lot of corporate narration or corporate scripts, and I've never worked in corporate America, and I have no idea what it's like, just go somewhere, be in a big tall glass building with people who wear suits and see what it feels like, right? See what they eat and drink, hear how they talk. Or just go to a Starbucks. You'll see 'em in Starbucks, hear how they talk. So that you're not necessarily mimicking them, but you're getting an essence, a suggestion of where you wanna head towards that may be very different from your world and your existence. You wanna talk the lingo, have a sense of that.    Anne: Yeah, absolutely. You wanna be able to align to the environment, right? And I think, Lau, if I said to you, is improv important in promos?    Lau: Improv is important in everything,    Anne: Right. So why? I'm playing the devil's advocate here. I'm thinking my students would be like, yeah, but you don't really need to improv in a promo, or you don't need to improv when you're doing a phone system. And I would tend to disagree with you heartily. I think improv is needed everywhere. I'd like your take on that, Lau.    Lau: I agree. As I said, I think it's an immense tool to find your interpretation. Like if I'm gonna give more than one take, or let's say I'm just dealing with an in-house client. I'm not auditioning; they're just calling me and I'm giving them takes, I'm gonna say, wait a second, who's calling? Like, who are the people that are calling? What if I have an impatient person calling going to the system, right? I have a person who's a seller or pitcher calling? What if I have a young teenage person calling the system? How am I coming across to them? How would I speak to them differently and what their different needs are? That would be an improv tool that I would start to be utilizing in that telephony or whatever system.   Anne: And if you're a voice for a healthcare system, right? Okay, somebody's calling for an appointment, right? They're nervous, they're not feeling well, or you know what I mean? They want the results of their test. Understand who it is that you are going to be talking to, right, and then talk to them. I always say that when I read the back of pharmaceutical labels, I do medical narration, and I want to be able to speak to that person who is nervously looking at the back of the bottle and saying, oh my God, I have all of these symptoms. That's me, by the way. I have every single symptom ever known. And who do I call in case I die? That kind of thing. I'm taking that lightly, but I really do think about the person that's going to be looking at this bottle and what I'm voicing and I'm improv-ing, right? I'm playing that scene out in my head so that I can voice it better.    And so that's for medical narration, and for promos, you know, tonight, like if you're doing like a television promos, right? Still, you've gotta get into the mindset of who's the audience that watches this show, and how can you -- hey, oh my God, did you catch the latest episode of — that kind of thing? You've got to get into their mindset 'cause you're talking to them. And that is where improv will come into play, right? Know that network, know that show. Be the person that watches that show and talk to them.    Lau: And if anything, if you don't believe in anything we're saying, just talk and listen to people talking because that's one big, huge improvisation. Conversation is just one big, huge improv. Life is one big, huge improv 'cause we don't really know what's coming up next. So you don't have to perform, you don't have to act, you don't have to do anything other than listen, observe and communicate. Because then you're improv-ing.    Anne: And I will tell you that every other month, or at least once a quarter, if you join the VO Peeps, we do have a workshop that covers improv. We do it. I think it's necessary to continually just keep your skills up. And I know, Lau, I'm sure you have something is part of your group as well?   Lau: We do. We have a Monday night improv mania that runs. It's a lot of actors, a lot of VO talent. A lot of people come in, even just people who are in business come in and they just want to --   Anne: And it's so much fun.    Lau: Fun. Yeah. They wanna free themselves, wanna be free.    Anne: And that's the thing. Yeah, improv should be fun. It shouldn't be stressful. And the only way that you're gonna make it fun is by doing it really. And just getting yourself used to it and getting those responses quicker and quicker and quicker. And thinking off the cuff. And it will always help you especially — I've just had a conversation with Dave Fennoy talking about video games. You know, the storyline and video games is constantly evolving and changing. Improv is huge. You may prepare your character for one set of scenes, and then when you get to the studio to record somebody's changed the script on you. And that could be for video games, that could be for commercial, it could be for any script where you might have last minute changes. So I think it's so important, guys, that we are well-versed in improv, know how important it is and go out there and practice it.    Lau: I love it. Here we go. Ready for the improv of life.   Anne: The Improv of life. You guys, I'm gonna give a great big sponsor shout-out to ipDTL. You too can connect and network like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And I also want to give a shout-out to 100 Voices Who Care. This is your chance to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. 100voiceswhocare.org to commit. Thanks so much, guys. Have an amazing week and we'll see you next week.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

There are very few things in life that are black and white. The world is full of nuances, nuances that can be challenging when they come up in business. Anne & Lau dive into the emotions & decision making process that happens when you make a decision to protect the ethics of your business. Most people don’t want to talk about ethics in business. They are uncomfortable with the topic and don’t know how to approach it, but discussion is one of the only ways to bring awkward subjects into the light. No decision is without trade-offs. It usually means losing something, whether that's time, money or energy. When faced with a tough decision, ask yourself how this feels in your gut? Is it the right thing for you? For the future of your business? Remember, there are no right or wrong answers. Only decisions that feel right or wrong for you at this moment in time.   Transcript   It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey, everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I am excited today to bring back to the show Lau Lapides.    Lau: Hey.   Anne: Yay. Hey Lau. Here we are. The BOSS Superpower series. I'm so excited.    Lau: Me too. I feel like it's been a long time since I saw you.    Anne: I know, right?    Lau: I just came back from vacation.    Anne: Well, and I, of course I'm working over here like a dog (laughs), and I need a vacation now. But I have to say I encountered something that was difficult for me and my business while you were having fun in the sun there. And I thought we could talk about it today. And it's all about ethics, and ethics in your business, and what you can do to get through a situation that is not easy to deal with, especially when it comes to your moral ethics in terms of will you work with a client. So I had a client. And they asked me for something that did not sit well with me, Lau. And it made me feel icky. (laughs).    Lau: Gotcha. Oh my gosh.    Anne: Yeah. And it was one of those things where the opportunity was great. There was gonna be opportunities for more work, and this was a very well-known brand. And I really struggled, and it was one of those things, and I thought, well, is it worth it, right, to align myself with this brand when I'm kind of feeling icky about what they're asking me to do, because it could mean more work if I maybe choose not to work with this client? Will I be seen as somebody that's not easy to work with or difficult to work with and will they tell other people? And so it just became, ugh, such a difficult decision, Lau. And I know that in our businesses, I like to think that everything's easy, and all the clients are easy and I get to choose what clients I wanna work with.    But every once in a while, a client can also kind of flip on you (laughs). So typically I think I'm a good judge of character, and I can say this is gonna be a great work relationship, and I'm gonna be able to work with this client. But sometimes those clients, maybe the company changes hands or you're working with somebody else from the company, or the rules change or the policy change or whatever it is. Or the script changes. This actually didn't really have to do with the script, Lau, but I also think this applies to any potential job that talent have the opportunity to voice that maybe they don't agree with the copy, with the script.    Lau: Right. I'm telling you, as long as I've been alive on this earth, I can tell you that the longer you're in business, the more often you're going to experience this kind of thing. And, and it is to be expected. And as uncomfortable as it is, and it is really uncomfortable, and I, you know, I'm trying to put on my empathy face right now, I also have that feeling that yeah, it's to be anticipated, it's to be expected. And I always like to think of it as like a magic carpet ride. You've got this beautiful carpet, you created it, you're floating, you're flying, you're moving in the direction you wanna be moving in. You're going fast, you're high.    Anne: I was flying high, Lau.   Lau: Flying high. You feel really secure. You got your seatbelt on. Then all of a sudden the carpet gets pulled out from under you and then you fall. And you feel like you're falling, you feel like your credibility's falling, your hopes are falling. The perception of your audience is falling. You feel like you're losing something. And it's scary 'cause you don't know how it's gonna land. You don't know, am I gonna survive this? Am I gonna get out the other way and get up and run? And you always do. You always do. You're most resilient person I know. Like you're gonna get up and run after it. But to go through it is really like, what would you call it? Like the milestone of moving through life and moving through your business and saying when difficult things happen, that's when I build my character. That's really how I react to that and how I stand my ground, and how I build my character is really, I'd like to say what it's all about at the end of the day. And I think you're amazing in the choices that you're making. And so you're making choices about this, right?    Anne: Yeah. Oh yeah.    Lau: The path, which way you went.    Anne: I have to say I made the tough choice, and I chose not to work with the client. And after that, Lau, I had days, I had days where I was second guessing that decision, thinking what would be the ramifications and how would it affect my business, in all aspects. Because I thought, well, this might become something that other clients will know 'causethis client knew a lot of other potential clients that I've worked with. And so it became a thing where I had to sit back in a quiet space and just ask myself how does my gut feel? And I, I know we've talked about this is I, I like to run my business by my gut, and I usually listen to my gut, 'cause for me it's usually the right thing. But I'll tell you, I was back and forth with this and once I made my decision, then I second guessed myself again for days.    I mean there was no way, once I had made the decision to cut the relationship; I mean, I couldn't really go back. And so then I just sat there and worried and I thought, oh no. And again, you think that being in business all these years, maybe it would be easier. Or I would be able to get through it quicker. But I think maybe sharing my experience with the BOSSes out there, I can at least share my experience and, and talk to people about here, it happened to me. This is how I felt. Like how did I feel? I felt like once I was given the opportunity, and it was presented with a job, I was initially like taken aback and was so surprised. And then I thought, oh, that doesn't seem right. (laughs) That just doesn't seem right. And so I asked a couple of close friends and colleagues of mine what they thought if maybe I was misreading something. ‘Cause I wanted to kind of have another set of eyes on it.    And of course this was with people that I trusted and of course I wouldn't wanna shout this on social media or on the rooftops because again, it was a private connection between me and my client. And so I kind of got other people's first initial reactions, which were similar to mine from a lot of people that I spoke to. I then sat with it for a while, and I couldn't get it outta my brain. It was one of those things that, until I said something, we were gonna be working together. It was just gonna be a wonderful thing and a great relationship that was gonna continue on, and I was just gonna continue to work with this client, and things were gonna be lovely, and my business was gonna be accelerated by this. But I kept thinking and feeling in the back of my brain and in my heart that something just didn't sit well.    And so then I made that tough decision to cut ties with the client, and then there's the ramifications of the back and forth because I cut the ties with the client through an official email. Right? I had to do that. I would've liked to have actually maybe had some, I don't know, some Zoom time or maybe a phone call. But I had to cut the ties via email. And that was tough. I mean, because trying to go back and forth on something that it's a little more than a, than a negotiation on a job, it's tough to do through email, through text or email. And I was hoping that I would have an opportunity to further, I don't know, either talk to the client and maybe -- I didn't burn any bridges. I didn't wanna burn any bridges. And that was important. So I think that when that happens, BOSSes, you have to really consider, I don't wanna burn bridges. That's just kind of who I am. Although you may not be able to do it without burning a bridge. What are your thoughts, Lau, with all of your years and and experience in the businesses that you've built? It's happened to you.    Lau: Oh my goodness. Yes. That's the thing. And you and I talk about this all the time, Anne, you can't get through life completely unscathed, as much as we would like to because we're positive minded people. We wanna think the best of our connections. We wanna give the best, we have the best intentions. You're dealing with human communication. You're dealing with behaviors of human beings that have this whole frame of reference that has nothing to do with you. They're coming to the table with a whole life, a whole mindset, a whole viewpoint that has nothing to do with you.    So in my mind that slides into every single exchange that happens, their ethics, their behavior, their morality, their persona. That kind of goes into the mix. And we have to understand that, that when we're doing the recipe, it's not always gonna taste good. The cake's not always gonna come out the way we think it's gonna come out. And that's okay. So I think as women, we make a couple mistakes. One is we do take the brunt, we take the emotional brunt of having to make important decisions or what we perceive to be important decisions and stand that ground and feel uncomfortable with that, and take on the other's trauma, the other's mistakes, the other’s whatever. We take that on and we emotionalize that. And I think that's a big issue for us as women because we're high pathos. We're very visceral beings. That's what makes us good at our jobs. But it also is a double-edged sword because that's what makes us take on a lot of things that are not our problem. They're just not our problem.    So being able to objectify it just enough, sort of like an audition. So for those of you who are listening in who audition for a living, right, you have to care about it. You have to emotionalize it enough. You have to connect to it so it's authentic. But then when it's done, you have to walk away from it, and you have to disconnect, and you have to not make it the most important thing in your world. And that's the skill that you have, that all successful people have to cultivate is not saying, oh, I don't want things to go wrong. I don't want things to happen where the rug is pulled out from under me. No. But saying --   Anne: I don't wanna disrupt things. I don't wanna disrupt things.    Lau: Yes. It's like, are you a gentle disruptor? Are you an eloquent disruptor? Are you an intelligent disruptor? But the disruption will happen. It's just the nature of dealing with human beings, and it's the nature of business. Business is just difficult (laughs) on so many levels. It's tough. It's not easy. And I think if we could learn to objectify enough and walk away, that would be really important to do. Another thing we do too is we exaggerate situations. I noticed this in myself for many years, 'cause I was an actor. I was a professional actor for many years. And I would say, am I a drama queen? I mean, am I, what is wrong with me? Oh ah, I'm an artist. I see things in a certain way, typically emotionally first. And then it becomes larger and larger and larger and larger until it's like massive.    But to the outside world, they don't see it that way. To them, it's small, it's simple, it's almost non-existent at times. So I found that for me as a technique to save myself and sort of objectify and say, I think I'm blowing this out of proportion. I think I'm exaggerating this into something really huge when I don't think it's viable as a huge thing. I think it's just my perception in the moment of the massiveness of it. The truth is we're not a golden calf. We can be replaced; they can move on. And then sometimes it's almost as if it never happened.    Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And I like that you mentioned the over dramatization and, and that I think in terms of feeling the way that I was feeling, right? Oh my gosh, is this going to bring down my business? What are people going to think of me? What if other people find out what happened, and that kind of thing. And I, and you're right, I think it became like for me, emotionally bigger than it should have because I beat myself up over it for a good few days and spent a lot of energy thinking about what if, what if, what if, or oh my gosh, and being stressed out about it that I feel that I probably wasted a lot of energy on that. And I think at that point, when you're going through something like that, having the support of colleagues and friends that can remind you of things like, hey look, this is okay. Do what you feel is right. We'll support you no matter what -- I think that's so important to help you through the tough times for that.    And also I think being able to talk about it with a trusted colleague is going to be very, very helpful. And just to remember those things. I mean that's something you said to me, look, why is it that you feel bad for something that has nothing to do with you? And you're right, to the outside world, like it's insignificant, right? And a lot of times we build those issues up in our brain to be larger than life, when in fact nobody's really necessarily even thinking about them or concerned about them. But for me, in my business, I was in such a dilemma. And so I think that for me, after I went through the days of second guessing myself, stress, thinking about what if, what if, what if, I now have come out the other side, and I am proud that I stood my ground and did what I believed in, and I feel stronger for the experience. And again, this is not the first time it's happened to me. And I'm sure it's happened to you as well multiple times in your business. It's happened to me before and I've come out the other side fine. And I should remind myself of those things. But I think every situation is different. And in the moment, it may seem like it's, oh my gosh, it's the worst thing in the world that could happen.    Lau: It's the worst thing in the world.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: And also just for you to note, and I love doing this as a coach but also as a person in the world -- I love passing on what someone says about someone else that they would never know that could be like super amazing and life changing. So I passed on the generality of the situation to a dear female coach and family member of mine of many, many years, just generally speaking. And you know what she said about you, Anne, and you, you don't know her at all. She's not in the industry. She's actually a therapist. Not my therapist. But she's a therapist in the world and we have a lot of crossovers 'cause we're both coaches; she's a life coach. And she said, isn't it nice to know, Lau, that you're not only working with someone of that caliber, but there are people still left in the world that character and morality really means something to them?   Anne: Wow.    Lau: And are willing to stand their ground for it? And I thought, oh, it's so uncomfortable and upsetting to Anne, but it's so amazing. And like, I don't know what the word is, but it's so like revolutionary to the people who witness it around you, who say — it's almost like you can take a breath and say, wow, there are people in our industry that feel something real about injustice when it happens and actually do something about it, but do something in a very professional, kind, diplomatic, and thoughtful way, not a hostile, angry, violent way. Oh, I love that civility. That level of civility and diplomacy I think is to really be rewarded. And again, you don't know it, and you don't feel it in the situation, and you feel quite oppositional to that. But those around you, your circle that circles you, that witnesses that is really inspired and in awe of that. It sort of gives other people courage. It gives other people strength to say, yeah, if something comes at me, and my rug gets pulled out from under me, people like Anne, people like — are doing things to help build themselves up without getting destroyed by it. I can do that too.    Anne: Well, I appreciate you telling me that. Thank you so much. And now I feel even better about my decision and I appreciate you saying that to me. And I think it was very important and worth mentioning again, when you are handling something like this and taking a stand, especially when it's in regards to your business -- and this could just be me. I'm always like trying to be the professional, always trying to not burn my bridges. Because again, you never know where your relationship will go, how the client will react, maybe something wonderful can happen out of it. So I never choose to burn my bridges. And so I did break ties with the client as professionally and as diplomatically as I could and thank them for the opportunity to work with them and appreciated everything that we had worked on together. And yeah, I think that's an important thing to consider when you are faced with ethical decisions.    And again, this doesn't just have to be about scripts, because I know we've spoken about that before. I mean it could be like, well, what if you get a script and you have to voice something that you don't believe in? I'm strong on that one. I'm like, I don't have to voice that. Like to me, that's a no-brainer. But when it came to my business and working with a client that I thought maybe didn't align to the same goals as I did and making that tough decision, I think that the ethics, it's all around. We have to address ethics all around in our business. Not just on what script we voice. And again, BOSSes out there, I entirely encourage people that if you don't feel comfortable voicing a script, you can take that stand and turn that down.    Lau: Or even you are not comfortable working with someone. Like you don't have to justify it. It's okay. You don't have to tell everyone. But you can certainly internalize and say, why am I feeling uncomfortable? I just had this recently with a new partnership with an agent out in LA who was interviewing one of our people and said, you know, I have to be honest with you, I wasn't comfortable with him. This was on Zoom; this wasn't — I wasn't comfortable. I just didn't, I didn't like his personality. He made me feel uncomfortable. I didn't feel like I would be able to do dealings with him, and I didn't offer him a contract. And I said, well good for you. I didn't take any offense to that at all. I said if I were in your position, I probably would do the same. Because you wanna be able to have that free flow of ideas and conversation in that somewhat level of trust that you're on the same page, you're tracking kind of thing.    Anne: Yeah. Yeah. That you align.   Lau: You're tracking. I'm gonna make a prediction for everyone in the audience. Here's my prediction. My prediction is this client, Anne, is gonna come back to you for future things, whatever that is. Whether it's a recording job or whether it's uh, something else. And you're gonna have another decision to make. And that is, do I want to work with them? Because somehow how we feel like, oh, the coffin shut, the nails are in. And that's often not the case because guess what? The time goes by. They realize who their friends are, they realize who they can trust. They realize and they say, you know, that wasn't a comfortable thing that happened, but a year has gone by. Two years have gone by. I miss her. Where is she? Let me got in contact with her again. Don't be surprised if it's not the end of the relationship.    Anne: Yeah. Very interesting. Hmm. Wow. Well, it certainly was something that threw me for a loop this past week, and I'm glad I'm out the other side. But I did wanna share my experiences 'cause I thought maybe if I can help anybody — and it's funny because I'm, I'm very much a person who likes to showcase my business as being together. And every time, Lau, you and I get together on this show, I'm always going, oh my God, Lau. I've sabotaged myself. I'm feeling insecure, but I'm sharing because I'm hoping it will help people that they're not alone. This happens even if you've been in the industry for a long time, and it looks to everybody like -- I mean I like to think that I have it together, but ultimately the experiences that I go through have helped me to build my character, build my business stronger and hopefully continue to do that. I think the last thing I want, because I put so much of myself into it, is for my business to not survive something like a client relationship that I have decided not to pursue any further.    Lau: I also think too, unless you run the kind of business where you're really relying on one or two or three clients to keep you alive -- I think you're so diversified and you working with so many people, I don't think that's actually possible when you have so many irons in the fire. But I think it's that, again, it's that sort of blown out of proportion perception, that six months down the line or a year when we are talking, you'll be like, how did I take that so hard? Or why was that so important to me?    Anne: Why was that so hard for me? Yeah.   Lau: Why did I go through that? I did the right thing. But why did I, like we, we have a Yiddish word called grizsha. Grizsha. It means to sit for a week and just worry and up, grizsha and upset. Make friction for yourself because you're going through the process of it. It's like grief. It's a loss. You're going through a loss.    Anne: Yeah, that's exactly right. That it was a loss. And I always think, well, the reason why I went into business for myself is so that I didn't have to go through the stresses that I went through when I was working for people. Right? When I was working in the corporate world. And I was like, I'm not gonna be beaten by the man. And literally I'm like, this is what I love about working for myself is that I get to choose. Right? I get to choose who I work with. I get to choose the projects. And again, I think that is such a wonderful blessing, and it's such a wonderful thing to be able to build a business for yourself. ‘Cause you do have the options to make all these choices.    And I think that if you do end up going through an ethical dilemma, I think it's good for the soul, even though it wasn't pleasant going through it. And I second guessed myself and stressed out, and -- but I do think that it is one of the reasons that I think being employed or self-employed and having your own business is such an advantage. I mean, we have those choices in front of us to decide upon who we work with. And again, I don't think you get to that point in your business until you're confident and you have -- for me, it always comes back to, and this is a sad thing to say, but it's a reality is, if you have the financial stability in your business to be able to really make those decisions. And I am grateful, and I'm also proud of the fact that I've built my business to the point where I'm okay, I can say no to a client. And I think any BOSS out there that has been able to do that, wow. I mean how wonderful is that? It's just an amazing thing and you should all be so proud that you are able to make those decisions and able to decide whether or not you want to work with a client or not. That's a luxury.    Lau: It's a huge luxury. And you have to have that awareness of not being such a people pleaser, such a yes person that you're doing that at the demise of you, your business, your model, your time, whatever. Like that's an ethical dilemma for a lot of people. I went through it for many years 'cause I'm a natural-born people pleaser.   Anne: Yeah, me too.    Lau: I was brought up that way actually. And I love having that quality still. A lot of people call me Mama Lau, 'causeit has like sort of caring --   Anne: Oh yeah. That's great.   Lau: — essence to it. But at the same token, you have to be very careful because there are things you must say no to. There are things you must decline, you must whatever. And those are the hard moments, whether they're ethically driven or financially driven or whatever, that you just know in your heart, I really shouldn't be doing this. Or I really don't wanna do this or what — and you're still saying yes, that's your own ethical dilemma. That's your own saying, what is my value system? What are my principles? What do I stand for? And sometimes there's nothing wrong on the other side. It's just you shouldn't be doing it for whatever reason. You know what I mean? So I think you're awakening us all to really having a good hard heart to heart talk with ourselves and saying, yeah, what do we believe in? What do we wanna be doing? What do we wanna spend our time with? When is it okay to say no? And just set that up. Just be okay with that. Don't kill yourself because you're saying no for whatever reason.    Anne: Yeah. Good talk. Thank you, Lau.    Lau: Amazing.    Anne: Mama Lau.    Lau: Amazing.    Anne: I love Mama Lau. (both laugh) That's pretty awesome. Oh man, great discussion. Thank you so much as always. Words of wisdom, golden nuggets from Mama Lau (laughs). BOSSes out there, as individuals, it may seem difficult to make a huge impact, but as a group we can contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never before thought possible. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how. And a big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. Guys, have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Ever wanted to know what it takes to create a TV pilot? In this special episode, Anne is joined by Scott & Miranda Parkin to discuss Comet Casino. Comet Casino is a story centered around found family. It talks about those relationships & friendships that grow so near and dear that they feel like family. Scott & Miranda voice two of the characters, but were heavily involved in the creation of the show. From planning out the story to animating, Miranda was in charge and excited about this mid-century modern tale. After two year, the pilot episode is ready & shipped out to all the right people. So what’s next for the duo? There may be more planning, creating, and meeting taking in their future…but you have to listen up to hear the whole story.    Transcript   It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am so excited and pumped to have the Comet Casino team here with us, special guests Scott and Miranda Parkin. You guys, welcome to the show. Thank you so much. Yay!   Scott: Thank you so much for having me. You were an early supporter of this. (inaudible) merch on your show, you donated money, and now we're in the pitch phase. So we really owe a great debt of gratitude to the VO BOSS.   Miranda: Yeah, seriously.    Anne: Well, thank you. Thank you. I mean, it's not hard to support and love what you guys are doing. So for those BOSSes out there who may not be familiar with the famous Comet Casino team, I thought we would start with a little bit of an introduction of each of you so that the BOSSes can get to know you a little bit better. So let's start with Scott,‘cause he's older. (laughs) So Scott, I mean actor, amazing improv instructor, voice actor, I mean everything. Tell us how you got started in the industry and where it's going (laughs) and your life.    Miranda: And your social security number.    Anne: Yes.    Scott: No, that's horrible. That's horrible advice.  I'm from Sacramento, California, and I started in radio when I was in college. I interned at KCAP, the home of rock. When I was around 20, 18, 19 in that sort of range, I was able to weasel my way onto the air with a guy named Kevin Anderson. He got fired, but he made a tape of the time we were together, sent it to Tulsa, Oklahoma. They had us come out for an audition. They asked me if I'd ever been to Oklahoma. And at the time I said, uh, the furthest east I've been is the Nevada side of Heavenly Valley, dude. And that is literally how we all spoke in Northern California. You were more like this, like, are you gonna put change on your car before you go to Tahoe?    Went out there to Oklahoma and did that. And then I got fired again. Came back to Sacramento, got a gig in Dallas, was there for 11 years, got married, got — moved to Los Angeles in, I wanna say ‘98. Had a kid in 2000, got divorced in 2003, done voiceover and writing for television and acting, and I always say you gotta hit it from every angle possible, so I'll do most of the stuff that they'll pay creative wise. So Miranda's been raised on TV sets and in voiceover lobbies and all that. And she started in the business when she was about five.    Miranda: Pretty crazy.    Anne: So, yeah. So Miranda, let's talk about that because you did grow up in the business. Yeah. I'm so excited again to actually see you and talk with you. And so tell us how you kind of got started, and was this something that, because you were around it for all the time when you were small, is it something that you loved right away, or did you kind of grow into it?    Miranda: Well, I mean, I feel like I loved it first because I was like, oh, I just really love reading. Like I love reading out loud. Like that very much fun.    Scott: Nerd!   Miranda: Shut up.    Anne: That was me too. That was me too.    Scott: Yeah.    Miranda: I liked reading out loud. So when they were like, “hey, do you wanna read this thing out loud,” a little five year old? And I was like, yeah, of course I wanna read that thing out loud. So I did. And then I was like, oh, oh, they like it when I do that. That's cool. I like that. You know, I was five, so I didn't really know, but it just made me feel happy, you know? Like I've always loved reading out loud. And then I got paid to talk about SeaWorld, and I'm like, I love animals and I love talking about whales, like of course I, I'm gonna do that.    Anne: Was this when you were five or a little bit later on?    Miranda: A little bit later on because I started when I was five, and then it was kind of went until eight or nine I think. I think nine was when I, I got the --    Scott: When the hammer got dropped.    Miranda: Yeah. Yeah. I got the job of, uh, Lucy in a direct to DVD Peanuts movie. And my mom was like, no, you can't do that. So I was like, oh, alright. I really like reading out loud. I really like the Peanuts.    Scott: But her dad was a voiceover actor, and anything that had something to do with me was --   Anne: Ah.   Scott: Yeah.   Anne: Okay. So there's the six degrees here I think because you said Lucy, right? You read for the —    Miranda: Right.   Anne: Okay. So my maiden name is Lucy. Okay?   Scott: Excellent. Is that true?    Anne: Yes, it's very true. It's very, because people called me Miss Lucy when I was a teacher, and then they would sing, Miss Lucy had a steamboat. The steamboat had a bell. Exactly.    Scott: I forgot you were a teacher. My mom was a teacher for 35 years. I have I have so many teachers throughout our family.    Anne: Well, so that's number one. And number two is that when I was young, when I was about six, when I was in kindergarten, I love to read out loud as well. And here's where my claim to fame, my creative claim to fame is that I wrote books. I wrote books about Nibbles the Rabbit. And as a kindergartner, I read them to the first graders. So that's my claim to fame. I mean, I --   Miranda: Kind of a power move.    Anne: I mean, so Miranda, if I could only be half as good of, and I illustrated and wrote, and you know what I mean? Which is, that's incredible.    Miranda: That's, that's amazing.    Anne: You do everything. And so I just feel like the apple doesn't far fall from the tree there, I think; the writer, artist, voice actor, actor.   Scott: I can't draw a stick figure without uh, without help. So.   Miranda: That's true. He can draw a palm tree and a lightning bolt.    Anne: There you go. Very good.    Scott: And I can draw an oak tree too though.    Miranda: And an oak tree. Oak tree. Sorry, forgot about that. One of the three.    Scott: Yeah.   Anne: I got good at drawing a rabbit as a kindergarten. But other than that --    Miranda: Nibbles the rabbit.    Anne: — that's kind of where it stopped. Although I always was in awe of people who could draw. And so I want to actually talk about Comet Casino because that's really why I wanted to bring you here so that we can talk about the whole process. Because BOSSes out there, if you're listening, the whole concept of Comet Casino is BOSS from start to as it evolves. Because you have encompassed all areas of the creative arts, all areas of funding, of marketing, of starting something and seeing it grow and seeing it evolve. So I love the evolution of Comet Casino. So before we do that, let me show the BOSSes a little preview of what we have here. So let's do this first.    Scott: Can we set it up real quick?    Anne: Yeah. Let, we're gonna set it up right now.    Scott: This is not a trailer. There's no voiceover or anything like that. This is the first 90 seconds of the pilot, and the shuttle attendant is the lovely great Delisle Griffin. And we love it. And so you get an idea of where our story takes place, who are the principals, and what's going on in the first 90 seconds. The whole thing, the whole pilot presentation is just over 10 minutes. There you go.    Miranda: Yeah, there we go.    Anne: All right. We're gonna give you guys the first 90 seconds. All right. Here we go.    >> Attention passengers. We will be landing shortly on Luparif Omari, please return to your seats. If you've morphed during the flight, please regenerate and buckle up. Okay? And remember, as long as you look like you're gambling, they gotta keep bringing you drinks. Good luck.    >> Luparif Omari. Everybody knows it as the loop. Number one adult playground in the galaxy and the armpit of the fucking universe. Everyone is thrilled when they get here and broken, disillusioned when they leave. That's just after a weekend. I spent the first 18 years of my life here. On the loop, after high school, you pretty much have three choices: bartending school, dealer school or alcoholic gambler. I wanted something more. So I went to law school on the nearest planet. After graduation I took a really good job as a defense attorney. It's difficult and none of it comes easy, but okay, it's somewhere else, and that's all that matters.    So what am I doing back here? My dad, owner of the formerly luxurious Comet Casino passed away. How? Uh, he just stopped breathing while a guy was choking him to death, which on the loop is considered natural causes. The loop is 100 miles of casinos, clubs, and general debauchery crammed into a thin band of oxygen. Everything else is toxic. My dad used to drop off associates in the desert when it was time for them to die of natural causes.    >> Hurry. Hurry, everyone.    Anne: Haha, awesome. I love it. And can I tell you that honestly, when I first heard it, I love the beginning, right, with the introduction. But Miranda, when you start telling the story, I teach like storytelling to students for years. And you have such a beautiful, wonderful presentation of storytelling in that, like it is so damn impressive.    Miranda: Hey, I used to love reading stories out loud. Now I do it all the time.    Anne: If Scott knows me, I don't say that lightly. I love, love the performance.    Scott: That's not — this whole thing, this has been two years in the making, and we directed all these legends who are friends of ours and have always supported Miranda. And if Miranda wasn't able to hold their own with these legends, it doesn't work. All of what we've done, it just doesn't work. So.   Miranda: That was one thing that I got scared about. Like I know literally like after we like got all these people to do it, and they were like, all right, now it's time to record your part. And I'm like, oh, I have to actually, I have to go up against these — oh my God. Not, not go up against, but like work with, like be in the same cartoon as, and I'm like, oh my God, that's like a dream come true regardless of where this thing goes.    Scott: Yes. And frightening as hell. And same for me. ‘Cause Miranda actually does video games and animation. I don't do so much of either of those. So after asking these people and then having to, you know, what was really cool was that we recorded our parts at SoundBox LA with Tim Friedlander. So first Miranda and Tim directed me, and then we switched, and Tim and I directed Miranda. So that was really, it was really cool. And he's been so supportive and known Miranda for a very long time. So it was, it was just really cool to do our parts at Tim's with Tim directing.    Miranda: Yeah. ‘Cause he's such a good friend and such a great dude. And he supported it all the way through. It just seemed like a natural fit.    Anne: So let's talk about, how did it all start?    Miranda: Ooh, ooh, ooh. I've got this one.    Anne: Okay.    Scott: Keep it tight and bright.    Miranda: So essentially it started as an FBI agent gets teleported into space and works off her debt at a space casino. So that was like our initial idea. And I wanted to do something    Scott: That was all Miranda’s --   Miranda: Yeah. And then I was like, okay, well the FBI thing is kind of silly, stupid. Let's just go with a mother-daughter story about a girl that actually lives in the casino and went to the casino and like lived at the casino, and her mom was the boss and she had to come back. And then we were just like, okay, let's cut the mom. Because I don't know how to tell a mother daughter story. I know how to tell a father-daughter story. So let's make a father-daughter story about a dysfunctional --   Scott: Well Miranda, you have to be honest, Ed Jager, our head writer and 23 year veteran television writer came in and said, I'm killing the mom. There's no story there. It's a father-daughter story. It's all about the daughter. Going away. Wanting to get the hell outta home, and then having to come back and then finding out that, ah, you know what? I hate this place, but I work here. It works. I have a connection here, and I'm really good at all the jobs I'm doing. It's the Joan Didian. You can't go home but you, maybe you can kind of thing.  Does that make sense?    Miranda: See the thing is like at the beginning of it, it morphed and switched. But I always wanted to make it a space casino. Always, always, always.    Anne: But then, let me backtrack here. So you're telling me the beginnings of the story, but what's the beginnings of the idea, Miranda? Was it something that you said, I wanna create? So not many people in this industry, and I know BOSSes out there, this is the whole enchilada, this is the writing, the artistry, the production, the casting. So did you just one day say, I wanna make a show like (laughs)?    Scott: We pitch ideas back and forth and have written a bunch of stuff, but Miranda always said that whenever they go animated shows, they have an episode at a casino. But I forget how you said it, M, I'm sorry.    Miranda: So like in a lot of sci-fi media, there's always like a one-off episode with a casino. Like in Cowboy Bebop, there's a one-off episode with a space casino. In Star Wars, they go to a space casino in one of the newest Star Wars movies. In like Rick and Morty, they go to a Dave and Busters type thing called Blips and Shits. And I'm just like, why don't you stay there? There's so much potential. You have beings from all over the galaxy. You know, you have people that go to Vegas for conventions. You've got people that go to Vegas in sororities. You have gangsters and mobsters and bachelor parties    Anne: I love it.   Scott: Corporate convention. Always bringing different people. And if you put it out in space, 200 years in the future, the hell knows what --   Anne: Right. So many stories. I mean, I think so many stories can evolve from that. So yeah, there's longevity there. Yeah.    Scott: The other thing we really liked was the found family because Miranda's been, was at my house from age 16 on solo and moved out two years ago. So big on found family. At my house growing up there was always an extra person. Somebody that just got divorced or some teenager had been kicked out of their house. So we're big on found family. A found family is such a lovely story. You can take in so many different directions, and in Miranda's situation, it's right here, found family.   Miranda: But also it's relatable to everyone. Whether you have a good relationship with your parents or not, you always have friends. You know, friends are the family that you choose. I know it's cheesy, but everyone can relate to it. Everyone has a friend that you feel like you're a sibling.    Anne: So then you had this idea that you wanted to do this. The two of you were bouncing ideas and then you said, yes, this sounds amazing. Let's get a writer. Like what happened after that? Just get a writer involved.    Scott: Like I said, we've had multiple ideas, and I think they're very solid ideas, but Miranda is a voracious performer and artist. They like to keep going and going and going. So if we didn't get something with legs on it early, it got set aside and fan art and something else, or voiceover or her life just got in. But this was much more substantial. And it has something that Miranda really likes is retro futurism and 50’s --    Miranda: Like mid-century modern atomic age type stuff, Jetsons style.    Anne: Yeah, absolutely.    Scott: They really enjoyed drawing. So it was very inspirational. And then I showed it to my buddy Ed. We had made a little video presentation and it's 1000 degrees different than that, than the thing that we first made. But he goes, this is great. We showed it to Swampy Marsh, the creator of Phineas and Ferb, who's sort of Miranda's mentor and my good friend. And then we all got together with a couple of the writers from Gary Unmarried, that show my buddy Ed wrote about my life that was on CBS, and other writers that I'd worked with on their pilots. And we all got a room and sort of hammered out a thing.    And then the found family thing, or how each of the casino employees used to work at the casino as a crooner or a fighter or something like that. And now the old man me has hired him to work on the, on the thing because they're no longer viable as performers. So we had that, and then Ed just took it off and built this great daughter goes away and comes back to save the found family sort of thing.    Miranda: And it was so well done and well-written. And we pitched on jokes, and I would be like, oh, this character probably wouldn't say that, or this and that. But most of it was Ed really. He just brought this huge heart to it.    Scott: Ed started on Roseanne and worked on Darma and Greg and so many great shows. And I was a joke guy, so you know, we were able to make the jokes crackle, and then you just crank it, crank it down, crank it down until it's tight. And then we hired Swampy Marsh and Bernie Patterson at Surfer Jack to do the staging animatics. So each time they go through, it's single line, really rudimentary, but it gives you a good idea of where everyone's going and what it will look like. I think they did four passes there. They hired Miranda to work on small projects. So Miranda got to work on her own pilot there.    And then I think after we had our thank you party last summer at Tim's, Miranda said, I want it all to be -- I have so many ideas. I want more characters, I want some different backgrounds. This would be funnier if a chop from above. And so Miranda said, I wanna do all of this. So she redid everything. And so every frame you see in the thing is her character's shirt background, a couple backgrounds. We hired her roommate Lauren to do, really wonderful stuff. But almost all of it is Miranda's vision. So there you go. And then laid in all the sound. Tim West at Rebel Alliances donated hours and hours and hours of time. So the sound design is really good. Adam Gutman, Miranda, you can talk about.    Miranda: Yeah. He's like a, he's a Disney composer. He does like all the music for these Star Wars land rides, and Amphibia, and he's worked on Greatest Showman and all these things. And I did a lot of work with him during the lockdown, and he had this like musical project, and I was able to do some animatics for him. And then after that, you know, we kept in contact and then he was like, if you don't let me do the music for Comet Casino, I will be very sad if you don't let me just do it. You know. And I was like --   Scott: Of course, of course.   Miranda: He had all these like great kind of almost hotel lobby tracks from like a Star Wars thing that he worked on. And he's just like, I can tweak this and do this. I'm like, that is so cool. It was crazy.    Anne: So a few things that I wanna point out to the BOSSes out there, because again, I think a lot of people that listen to the VO BOSS podcast they’re thinking very much in just voiceover. And again, the scope of this project is so amazing, and I'm hearing a couple of things that just keep coming back to me. Number one is having a great network, right? And having a wonderful team to help put this together. And so I think that networking is such an important thing to have a successful --   Scott: Without, without it, this wouldn't exist.    Anne: Yeah.    Scott: I called in and asked every favor I had to get us at this point.    Anne: Yeah, absolutely.    Scott: Listen, I don't constantly work for free, but I work with friends and things I like mm-hmm and everyone liked all these people that are in this, Maurice Lamar, Billy West, Tara Strong, Luray, Newman, Mindy Sterling — all of them have known Miranda since about three years old because I was asked to be divorced when Miranda was three. So I had her with me, and they all sort of watched her grow up and watched her. So when I said, hey you guys, this is what we're doing, would you be willing? And they all said the same, some version of yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Tara Strong's like, just tell me where to talk. They didn't owe me anything, but I, we asked favors.    Miranda: And one thing that I was so happy about is they've always been, ‘cause we're, you know, a lot of us are at the same agency. So like from being a kid, like not not a kid, but like, you know, in my 20s, early, early teenage years, they were always like, if you make something, if you make something, you know, put me in it. Please. So, you know, and then we finally followed through with an idea, and now it was like, I can do that. I can ask these people and they'll say yes. And that's just a such a great feeling to have, to have such a great support network of all these incredible talented people. I'm really honored.    Scott: And Miranda designed each of the characters for each of those actors. Aunt Maisie was designed for Tara Strong. Gary Anthony Williams is Hendrix. So that's kind of a cool thing too. But you definitely have to be willing to work with -- I mean I've worked on so many pilots that got shot and didn't get to air. I don't get any money from that. I just get the experience providing and supporting. So when I have something, I call those guys and they're like, yeah, let's get together and write this.    Anne: So then yet another thing that I wanna talk about that I think is so important in the development of this is you're still pursuing this, you're still getting funding for this. And so --   Scott: We've just started this phase.    Anne: Right.   Scott: We, it's taken two years to get up to that.   Anne: Yeah. And I think that there's something to be said for the level of commitment obviously, that you have to have for this. I mean in my brain, there's no way that it can't not be successful for you guys. I mean that's the way I feel. I don't know.    Miranda: I honestly think it's successful already. I am just, I am happy to be involved with these incredible people. I'm happy to have this part of my portfolio, and I'm ready to get this, this art in front of people who work in amazing studios. Like all these studio people are going to be seeing my art. So that was like the goal from early on was to get my art in front of studios, and whether it gets made or not, it's just a step in the right direction regardless.    Anne: I love that.    Scott: The beginning premise was to get experience at storyboarding character design and backgrounds. So when we hired Surfer Jack, the idea was that Miranda would sit on Bernie’s shoulder and watch him staging storyboard. But then Swampy screwed that up by hiring Miranda before they even started on the pilot to be head of small projects there. So the idea was to get all of her stuff in front of as many people as possible. And because of Ed -- his theatrical representation is APA — they saw that 90-second trailer and called us in for a strategy meeting. So now we're actually represented by APA.    Anne: Love it. That’s huge.   Scott: They’re not only showbiz adjacent, but they represent people like 50 Cent, Mark Ruffalo, you know, that kinda people. So now, next week the pilot goes out to every animation studio and every streaming service, full support of the head of animation at APA. And they'll bug them to watch it and then hopefully take a meeting. So we already won because all of that stuff is in front of them. And Miranda -- by the way, she's like, in my early twenties — these are your early 20’s; you’re 28 (?) until next week, you know.   Anne: That's phenomenal. Miranda, I love that you said that it's already a success because it truly is in my eyes, and that's why I feel like it can't be anything but a success already. I've seen it evolve, I've seen it progress, and to me I'm in awe. I think it's amazing. I love the evolution, I love the whole creative process. And I think that it would help BOSSes to maybe wrap their heads around the whole production process of a creative project because I think it will help us to become better actors, become better business people, understanding the networking that you guys are going through and the process to get this produced and and get this out and see if — it's like a big huge audition. Right?    Scott: It is. The other thing is, I told you I don't book animation. So what we did was build a pilot and write ourselves into the pilot. So if I book animation, it'd likely be something that we wrote then Miranda drew. So I think that's a really important thing for anybody getting into it. Don't wait to be asked to the dance. Get out there and start dancing.    Miranda: I also think like the thing about networking that you said like Swampy, a friend of ours, you never know who you are going to meet or who's gonna hire you or who's gonna be your friend and let you work on their project or whatever. ‘Cause like, you know, I hired my roommate to work on some of the backgrounds for Comet. And the networking is so important in this industry, especially with animation, the way that it is right now. ‘Cause animation is very weird and not an incredible industry to get into right now. ‘Cause everything is very up in the air.    Scott: What do you mean, not a great industry? Do you mean it's uncertain?    Miranda: Yeah, it's very uncertain and there's lots of things.    Scott: Voiceover and acting --   Miranda: No, no, but like animation in particular, a lot of animated projects are getting canned. Like they took so much off of HBO Max and Netflix. Like all these animated projects on Netflix.   Scott: That happens in every facet of the entertainment --   Miranda: Right. That's true.   Anne: Ebb and flow.    Scott: It's building your house on mud and hoping for the best.    Miranda: Yeah.    Anne: Yeah.    Miranda: But you know, like you just never know who is gonna hire you. You never know who's gonna be part of your story next. So.   Scott: It's also a good reason to be nice to everybody.    Miranda: Exactly. It costs some money.    Scott: ‘Cause you never know. And that's why I always say, hey people, I know we have, we're represented by an agency, but please if I sent you the pilot and said, hey, send it to creators that you know, it's always great when something comes to the same point from different connections.    Anne: Sure. Absolutely.    Scott: Oh, this is the pilot. Oh this is the guy that Apple, the Apple guy sent me this. So I believe you gotta get as many lines in the water as you can.    Anne: Absolutely. And that networking completely helps that. And I think that it's just something that's so important for us to know as we progress in this industry because this industry's uncertain, voice acting. Oh, oh my gosh. You know?   Scott: Also the other thing is Miranda's not stopping. She's doing Comet art for the pitch deck. Should we get the meeting, I feel confident people are gonna say, hey come in. We like it. We’d like to chat, doing that. But she's also prepping a bunch of stuff to submit for Smiling Friends. She just had a meeting with the storyboard director from Mitchells and the Machines. So you know, you can't just go, well, we've got our pilot. Let's just sit back and let the money roll in.   Miranda: Not over until it's over.    Anne: That's not over.    Miranda: It doesn't start till it starts.    Scott: Ah, I like that one.    Anne: Yeah. Now lemme ask you, Comet Casino, what's next? What's the next step?    Scott: Next week. Well, Miranda's doing art for the pitch deck. Hopefully it goes out to all the stupid buddies, the the titmouses, the --   Miranda: Bento boxes, the tornates, the 20th Century Fox.    Scott: It's gonna go out to every relevant animation company and every streamer, Amazon, Apple, all of those. And then we clear our schedule because we'll be just meeting so many people and having a bidding war on the Comet scene.    Anne: There you go.    Miranda: One would hope. One would hope.    Scott: We still, did you get one of these, Anne?    Anne: I did not get a bag.    Scott: We wanna send you a bag as a gift from the Comet Casino.    Anne: Oh, I love it.    Scott: And we'll put one of the lucky chips in there too.    Anne: Oh, I love that.    Scott: I always keep 'em in my pocket when I audition and I booked three commercials with one ofthese in my pocket.    Anne: Well, thank you. So let me ask you guys, before we go, first of all, how can somebody buy Comic Casino merch? Where do they go?    Miranda: They go to the Comet Casino gift shop, and it's the first thing that comes up on Google. I'll also send you the link so you can put it in the description of whatever podcast.    Anne: The Comet Casino gift shop. And guys, I have a few things. I have a few things from the Comet Casino, but I do not have a bag, so I would love that.    Scott: We'll send you the retro airline bag.    Anne: Thank you.    Scott: Cool thing where you put the cardboard on the bottom, and they put hard glasses in the bottom.    Anne: I love it.    Scott: And then we still have a bunch of shirts. We don't have a lot of stuff. We got hit pretty hard. Oh, we do have some of these handmade pendants that are really, really cool. We only have a -- I think there's only five of those left. They're really, really, really stunning.    Anne: That's very cool.    Scott: Our friend Lori Magna is this artisan in Boston, and she made, she does all the little -- I mean --   Anne: Oh, I love it.    Miranda: Aren't they so cool?   Anne: I love it. So Comet Casino gift shop.    Miranda: Yes, indeed.    Anne: And how can someone follow you, Miranda?    Miranda: Oh, well my Instagram is Parkinart, Parkinart. No spaces, no caps, no nothing. No, no underscores or dots or dits or numbers.    Anne: Perfect.    Scott: You can see me on a Tide commercial    Anne: Ah yes.    Miranda: And his Instagram. His Instagram --   Scott: Hang on, I forgot to say we just got these, the premade --   Miranda: The booklets.   Scott: Big comic books with all the concept art. They're 22 pages, and we just got these. There was a misprint. We got to help with the pitch and they did a misprint --   Anne: Will you be signing?    Scott: We're signing. Miranda will sign. I'll sign it. It doesn't really matter if I sign it, but Miranda's gonna sign it, and then if you get other cast members to sign it, you got something there.    Anne: Very nice.    Scott: That'll be up on here very quickly as well.    Anne: Very nice.    Scott: Anne, thank you so much. So sweet of you to have us on.    Anne: Thank you, guys. It was amazing. So much fun. And I'm looking forward to interviewing you again after it gets picked up and you guys --   Scott: Absolutely. And remember, we're voice first, and we have a very long memory and we remember everybody that was so supportive and helpful. And believe me, we’ll be working hard. We don't know who's gonna buy it or what the situation will be. They may buy it outright, tell us to go away, you know what I mean? So we have no idea what that looks like. But if we have any say in it, we're gonna bring people to audition. Everybody gets up to bat, we're gonna write your names as a character, spread the wealth.    Anne: Love it. And your cat wants to say hello. I love it. You know, I have three cats, so I'm all about that. Well fantastic, guys. Thank you so much again. It was amazing. So much fun. Love, love, love what you're doing.    Miranda: Thank you so much for having us on.    Anne: Absolutely.    Scott: You’ve been so supportive, Anne. You jumped on the bandwagon and gave away merch very early on. This was an expensive proposal, right? Hiring an animation company to do four passes, and then I was sending random money to not take any other work while they worked on this thing. So it's really, really helpful to have such support. The main thing is, it's just really fun to see the cool logo and all the great art on it. It's very nice.    Anne: Absolutely. All right, well BOSSes, here's your chance to use your voice to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. Besides giving to Comet Casino, you can go to 100Voiceswhocare.org to find out more and commit. And also big shout out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network communicate like BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we will see you next week. Bye!   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Great sound is an important factor in booking voice over work. In this episode, Anne is joined by audio engineer & musician Gillian Pelkonen to discuss the basics of audio for voice. Sound engineers listen for clean, crisp vocal sound. This is the kind of sound that helps you book more jobs, and it's the kind of sound that makes you stand out from the crowd. In order to get great voice over work, it’s important that you have great sound. But what exactly is “great sound”? Is it the same as “high-quality audio”? The best way to solve audio issues is to address them before recording. Incorrect recording levels, too much room tone & improper mic technique are common audio issues. Feeling lost & overwhelmed with your sound? Anne & Gillian tell you all you need to know...   Transcript   It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I am excited to bring a very special guest to the show today, Gillian Pelkonen. Gillian is an audio engineer, musician and creative freelancer living and working in upstate New York, which is where I am from. Woohoo.   Gillian: Woo.   Anne: Uh, Gillian received her masters in audio arts from Syracuse University and has been working in audio engineering ever since. Gillian, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm so excited to talk to you.   Gillian: Anne, thank you so much for having me. It is so exciting to be on the show. Obviously I've listened to it a lot in the past few years, so --   Anne: Well, thank you. Thank you   Gillian: -- definitely trippy to be on this side of it. But yeah, thank you for having me. I'm excited to chat about audio.   Anne: Yeah, so I'm excited number one because you are from like practically my hometown. My family's still up there and I also love female engineers because that's kind of where I started as well. When I graduated from college, I went to school for engineering, not audio engineering, but engineering. And so I have uh, a soft spot in my heart for female engineers. So tell the BOSSes how you got started and what got you interested in audio engineering.   Gillian: Well, we are few and far between, unfortunately. I am a musician as well. I don't really say that, it's a weird word for me to say, but I've been playing guitar and singing and writing songs for as long as I could talk. It's been my outlet for everything. And I was working on a lot of my music in college and at recording studios on campus, and I couldn't find women to work with. I did have one female audio engineer that I worked with and that was the best experience I had, and I found her a bit later in the experience. But up until then I just didn't understand. And obviously gender is a construct. It's not really about that. But I found that I worked really well with women and people who were good listeners and who felt like they were as passionate about what I was trying to create as I was. And eventually I found that nobody was, so I just wanted to go learn it myself and just know how to do it and make music, and that's what got me into audio and now kind of in the voiceover AI sphere 'cause they're super connected.   Anne: Fantastic. So now you also sing as well?   Gillian: Yes. Yeah.   Anne: Oh wow. You are multifaceted. I love it. So let's talk a little bit about audio because for people just entering into the industry, it is I think one of the most scariest things because a lot of people are not necessarily technically adept at creating or editing audio. And so it really becomes a thing to enter in the voiceover industry. It's like, like not only do they have to learn how to perform and be authentic and real, and now all of a sudden they've gotta figure out, well, how am I going to prepare this audio to send to my client? And that just becomes a whole different thing, especially with technology.   And I've always said that to be successful in this industry, not only is it great to have that creative artistic talent in your performance, but you do have to be adept at technology because you're going to have to be able to handle that audio, edit that audio, deliver that audio to your client. And if that is not something that you're comfortable with, you need to actually get comfortable with it. So what would you say is the most important thing for people starting out in terms of their audio?   Gillian: That is a big question.   Anne: Yeah, I know, with probably an hour's worth of answers, I'm sure.   Gillian: Many hours worth of answers. I think for people starting out, the best thing you can do is, I hate to say work with a professional, but that might be a starting point just to understand what you might need because the hard part is not the audio. Everyone makes it like that's the daunting task because it's not what you're comfortable with, but I know that the acting is really difficult and the mic is just the thing that picks that up. And so if you're gonna go to a coach to work with your acting and develop that, why would you not go to an audio professional to get the right mic for you to get the right setup and get started with that? Because with audio, obviously the editing and that's a learning curve and process, which you will get comfortable with, the more you work on it, same way you get better at auditioning. But getting started with a professional will stop all those stumbles that you might find along the way with just trying to figure it out yourself. Because it's not complicated. But there's definitely a lot of ways to get lost on the path if you're not with the proper information.   Anne: Yeah. And I think too, the thing for me when I started it was all about the room, the studio. And I think you don't know what you don't know. And that's why I love that you said, you know, why wouldn't you work with a professional? Because we go to coaches for performance? Why wouldn't you go to an audio professional to get help with your studio? And I think that's fantastic advice. And it's something that I ended up doing because for me it was, oh my gosh, I have to say it was so frustrating. I remember at one point I didn't have it, and I sent some audio to a client, and they're like, Anne, it sounds like you're talking into a tube. And I was mortified, and I was like, oh my gosh, maybe I shouldn't be in this industry. And I was so frustrated, I remember like physically crying, and I don't like to admit that, but I was so frustrated.   And at the time it was hard to know because I started so long ago, the internet wasn't quite a thing where we were in community groups yet. And so I didn't even know how to reach out or who to reach out to. So I think it's wonderful now that there are lots of people that we can reach out to. And I, for one, when I have a new student, I always recommend that they talk to an audio engineer to get their environment set first, and then it becomes like, oh my, my gosh. Well, what mic? And I think you're probably gonna tell us that the environment might be a little more important than that. So let's talk about what's important in a good environment for us to record in?   Gillian: Well, there's so many things to say, and just going back one second, there is no shame in crying over figuring out audio issues.   Anne: Thank you. I feel better.   Gillian: I have to say that I have at some point because they're very frustrating. It's so easy to get your wires crossed, and I'm sure we'll have longer conversations about this, but it's definitely very frustrating 'cause your voice is coming out of your mouth. Like it's like I hear it, I hear it. Why is it not in my computer? So the frustration is real, I understand that. And the reason that I do say higher professionals is because so much of your valuable time will be wasted troubleshooting these things that someone like me or any of the other pros doing this will be able to diagnose and fix in a couple seconds.   Anne: Yeah. You have the ear. You have the ear for it, which I think most people starting out in voiceover, if you don't even know the industry, how can you expect to have an ear for it?   Gillian: Exactly. And it's funny, when I was in school, I felt that there was not a lot of sound representation. I was initially in school for TV and film. And one of the first sound classes I took, the professor on the syllabus said, sound is 50% of a picture and nobody cares about it. Like picture being a movie, and for voiceover it's a hundred percent. So it's even more essential to have it, you know, that's your introduction to a client. And like you were saying, if your audio comes in not sounding right, you don't sound as professional. Doesn't matter how your read is. So that's something.   Anne: And especially since the pandemic, right? Because we can't go to professional studios anymore. So it's more important than ever that our home studios are set up properly. And even just like, again, starting out, you don't really know. And I will say that there's a ton of information on the internet. But again, there's a ton of information on the internet. So how do newcomers to the industry discern what's the good information and what's not good information? Because I certainly didn't go to school for audio engineering and I know that that's an entire field, obviously. So again, so for our environment then, what's important, what's important for us to set that up?   Gillian: Well, I think the most important thing is, within a voice, something that I listen for is crisp, clean, natural sound. I want it to sound like we're sitting together talking, but maybe a little bit better, because you know, with all the equipment you have the ability to boost some frequencies in your voice. We're basically, with audio, we're trying to mimic what our ear hears, but there's this whole other, I'm not going to get into it, but there's something called psychoacoustics, which is how panning works and stereo. And it's basically using the computer and things we can do with audio and stereo field to trick your ear into hearing things that are not exactly as they are. So we're using plugins, EQ, all of those things to make you sound your best. But some issues that I see happen a lot is, you know, incorrect recording levels, too much room tone, too much stuff going on in your environment, improper mic placement, just not speaking into the right part of the mic or having it placed the wrong way. And then there's just textural issues of needing plug-ins or other things to manipulate your voice to get it sounding its best.   Anne: Got it. So in terms of recording levels, right, I'm still thinking about the room and, and you said things are happening -- is there such a thing -- some students have mentioned this to me -- as being soundproof so that, oh gosh, I live next to an airport or the landscapers out there -- is there a way that you can create a studio that is soundproof that you won't hear those things?   Gillian: Yes. I think that it's going to be wildly out of a regular person's budget because like when you go into a recording studio, the way that they do that is they have floating floors, and basically you build a room inside of a room, and there's a bunch of ways to do it. But when you're in an isolation booth, you know there's the building and then there's the studio which is within it. So there's gonna be acoustic paneling and other things in there that help with the reflections of the sound. But realistically you'd need to build something. But that's not the only way to get really good isolated sound. You can do DIY things. I mean people go into closets to record for a reason. They're really good. I mean, I don't know if it's sustainable, you know; you need a booth if you're gonna be doing it full-time or something. But that tiny confined space that stops any reflections of sound, which would make echoes in the background, the padding of clothing that would kind of dampen everything, and that just makes it really clear for the mic to be picking up your voice.   Anne: Got it. So then if you've got a decent environment, right, that doesn't have a lot of hard surfaces and you've got the absorption so that you're not getting echo or reflection back, what then is the next thing that we wanna look at in terms of getting great sound from our studios?   Gillian: Well, I think a really important thing is recording level. I think making sure that you're coming in at the right volume, and it's kind of like, you know, Goldilocks situation. You don't wanna be too loud, you don't wanna be too quiet, you wanna kind of be just right. And a way that I gauge this, I don't really like giving numbers as like, if you are at this number, you're perfect. You're at the, you know, that's really hard. I want everyone to learn to trust your ears. But there are a few ways to measure it. So within your DAW, there's usually gonna be like a colorful meter that's going. And when you're checking that out, I like to say to be three quarters of the way up. So you don't wanna be lower than half, you don't wanna be towards the top. And I know I work primarily in Pro Tools. I know most people don't and most voice actors shouldn't. There's no need. But it's really green at the three quarters away mark, and then it starts to go orange and red and you never wanna be in the red. That audio will become unusable. But that's how I like to look at it. And I think it's simple enough for someone to look at within their DAW and see.   Anne: Now you mentioned something that, and I don't wanna get too off track 'cause I got a couple other questions I'd love for you to answer, but you mentioned that Pro Tools wasn't necessarily something that a voice actor needed. And I remember, oh gosh, back in the day, Pro Tools Lite used to come with the audio interface and so I started using Pro Tools Lite, and it was a bear. to learn. And I think that was also another thing that scared me in terms of how am I gonna be able to succeed in this industry if I cannot figure out how to use this audio editor? So if I can just kind of divert just for a minute, tell us what kind of an audio editor or your DAW, right, it's also known as a DAW, is good for today's voice talent when they first start out?   Gillian: Yeah. So DAW is, I just throw the terms around 'cause sometimes I forget like this is my language, but it's a digital audio workstation. So that's really anything you're gonna be working in. I use Pro Tools because it's a great multi-track recorder. A lot of times when I'm working in music, we usually sit around 50 to 100 tracks going on. Maybe not at at one time eventually, but you know when you're doing voiceover you have one, it's a mono recording for the most part. So I know a lot of people use Twisted Wave. I've used Twisted Wave. I think that it's great.   Anne: I love Twisted Wave.   Gillan: I know people use Audition. Audition is great. I think that really, especially starting out, you don't need anything more than Twisted Wave. I think it's affordable, I think it's great. I spend most of my time in Pro Tools. I dabble in Logic and Audition and even Audition is a little bit complicated. I can imagine being overwhelmed by it for the functionality. I don't know if it's necessary really, but I don't wanna knock it. I know people love it. Anne: Shh. Don't tell anybody, but I totally agree with you. And the reason why is because I think I started with Pro Tools Lite and I was like, oh my God, this is too much. I don't think I need it. And I think to reiterate what you're saying, we are voice actors. Unless we're producers or audio engineers, we don't need multi-tracks. I mean unless I'm putting sound effects or music under, I don't need that capacity.   Gillian: Which you can do in Twisted Wave.   Anne: And Twisted Wave for me is so simple in terms of, it's like Audacity on crack, I always say that , because Audacity is free. You get what you pay for and it's wonderful and I think a lot of people do that. But I think if you have a Mac, Twisted Wave is the way to go. What about a PC though for your DAW? What do you think? I mean 'causeTwisted Wave doesn't run natively on PC. They have an online version if I remember correctly. Or they're coming out with, I think.   Gillian: They do have an online version and from what I know they are working on it for PC. I have not had a PC since the early 2000s, my first computer. So really, I don't know, I think maybe trying the web browser version for that would work. And you know, I'd have to get a better answer for that 'cause honestly I live in the Mac universe. That's where I work.   Anne: Well, and if we wanted to get into arguments with people that listen to this about which is better Mac or PC for audio editing, I will say my own personal story is when I started outta college, I worked on systems that were Unix based. And so I was a Unix girl, and then Windows kind of came up the ranks. And when I was working in education we started using Windows servers, and so I became a PC girl. And then ultimately when I started to go into voiceover part-time and then full-time of course, I bought a really kicked up version of a Dell laptop with the most memory and everything that I thought was gonna be my computer for audio. And my audio didn't work; it wasn't compatible. And I was so upset 'cause I spent a lot of money upgrading the RAM and upgrading the space and doing everything to have a really great computer. And it didn't work.   And so for many years people said Mac, it just works for audio and creative endeavors. And I just said, well let me try it and I'll tell you what, I haven't looked back. And that's my story and I'm sticking to it. BOSSes out there, I'm not saying that one's better than the other. However, my personal experience is that the Mac just, things just work audio wise. You hook up any particular microphone or audio interface, boom. It recognizes it. I've not had issues.   Gillian: Yeah. I mean, I lived my entire life in the Mac ecosystem. Like that's how I organize my life. Obviously I've had friends and people I know -- my boyfriend has a PC, I don't know how to work it. . I mean I'm learning, but it's just, yeah. Apples and oranges, literally it is. But I think that there's a way to do it if you have a pc, don't go out and buy a Mac because we said we like them. There's a way to to work around it. But realistically, even going back to the Audition versus Twisted Wave, it's all about the interface. And really as a voice actor, from my understanding and as I work as an engineer, speed is so important. And so if you're gonna simplify your DAW for you to be able to work in it faster, like it's basically up to you where you're the most comfortable. So that's really the moral of the story.   Anne: That's a great point. It's a great point because, guys, unless you're outsourcing people to do your audio editing, you do spend a considerable amount of time, once you've recorded something, editing that. For me, I think I started off it was like a 1:5 ratio where if I did an hours worth of recording, it would take me five hours to edit it, and then as you get better -- you know, I'm about at a one to three ratio. I can't get any quicker than that. But if you're going to be spending a, a majority of your time editing, and again, like I said, unless you're outsourcing, I mean you might as well be comfortable and really consider the speed of which you can work and things that can help you to be more efficient. Let's talk a little bit about -- I see in the forums there's always, what's your noise floor? And so what's the importance of having a low noise floor?   Gillian: So noise floor is basically the sound that your gear makes because if you think about it, voice goes into a microphone, goes through an XLR cable or maybe directly into the computer, through the interface, back into the computer. That process makes a little bit of electronic noise.   Anne: And so I didn't know that actually.   Gillian: The term noise floor describes that noise. And usually they're related to room tone because, the sound around you, those are just things that end up needing to be taken out and they're kind of like white noisy or they're not, you know, the sound of a door slamming, but they are noise that end up on your audio file. So it's really important to make sure that your gain is set properly on your interface because if my gain is really quiet and I do a recording, and I need it to be loud enough to listen to, then you're gonna be stuck boosting your clip gain. And then the noise floor, everything, like all the sound that your electronics make, are gonna be super loud and proportion to the recorded sound. So that's where it all gets related. Same with room tone. Like if there's too much going on in your room, and it's picking that up more than your voice, then there's gonna be a lot more of it to take out, if that makes sense.   Anne: And I can always tell like a beginner, because they don't have their levels set. And so what'll happen is they'll set their gain like really low and then they can play their recording and they won't hear any noise. But yet when you, let's say, normalize it or you bring the the levels up, then all of a sudden it's like got some sort of shh sound and, and then that's when people are like, well no, I didn't normalize it because it makes this noise. And I'm like, well that's the stuff that you have to get rid of. So how do you get rid of the noise? I mean, what's the effective way of getting rid of that?   Gillian: Well, there's two ways to get rid of noise. There's before, you know, fixing the problems before you hit record, which is the best way to do it. And then there's post-production stuff that you can do later. And I've had people come to me with audio issues, and sometimes they are unfixable. We are not magicians. There are some things that are just, if you record so quiet and your noise floor is so loud, there's no way to take that off and have your voice not sound distorted or wrong. So the best way is isolate yourself, make sure you're in a good environment, make sure you sound okay in your booth, your DIY booth, and make sure that your gain is set properly so you're not set up for failure later. And then in post-production, there are plug-ins that you can use to kind of remove those frequencies.   So if you're getting rid of room tone, something that I use is Spectral DeNoise by Izotope RX. I think I have 8 or 9, I'm not sure what number they're up to, but really the one that I have is great. And that just you take a little, it takes like a little audio picture of the room tone and then goes throughout the audio file and just removes that frequency and tone, which is great. That's incredible. The only thing you need to have with that is a little bit of room tone noise with no speaking before or after the clips so that you know, the generator can grab it. But that's my favorite thing to use. And it works really well for slight room tone or little wind in the background if you're outside, whatever it might be. But that's like the pro plugin.   Anne: So then there's the DAW, right? And that is really based on what you're comfortable with. And depending on your platform, you can have various DAWs. We've already established that we like Twisted Wave. You use Pro Tools because of course you're an audio engineer and, and then that makes sense. You need to have that functionality. Now we've added into the mix something called Izotope to help remove certain noises. And so is that typically what most voice actors will have to buy, Izotope? Will it work within their DAW or is that when it becomes complicated?   Gillian: It's a whole thing. We could do a whole episode about plug-ins and all of that. But for the simple answer is that Izotope, they have a bunch of plug-ins, all voice related. The two that I use the most -- I have the whole suite because, you know, I work with voices all the time, and realistically you can meet with an audio engineer like me and I would say, hey, you probably need this and you need this. You don't need to buy all of them. But I use spectral de-noise the most that gets rid of the noise. And then there's also mouth de-click, which gets rid of all the little clicky -- those noises. I use that often, but I use that for music, for everything for my singing voice. I hate hearing those, um, myself. So those are the two that I use. But you can get any variation. I haven't used them within Twisted Wave just because I haven't, but I think that you can, because --   Anne: I have.   Gillian: Oh. Yes, you can integrate them into DAWs. I've used them in Pro Tools, I've used them in Logic, I've used them in Audition, and Izotope as well has its own little audio editor. So you can import a file, render it with the effect, and then import it into your DAW if you like to work that way.   Anne: So then let's talk about, okay, if you're new to the industry and you're kind of overwhelmed with all of this, you are available. Like an audio engineer can be available to help you with all of those choices. Right? You can help in terms of, let's say, somebody doesn't know what to do to make their sound better in their booth. So they can consult with you, maybe send you a sound file, and you can evaluate and then offer suggestions on how they might be able to improve their sound, right, and get rid of some of the noise. And so that also includes, right, what microphone should I get? I mean that's the other thing, right? So we've talked about how important the environment is. We've talked about DAWs and how we can do things after, you know, we record to get rid of noise. Now, how important is a microphone in terms of the quality of your sound?   Gillian: I think having a good quality microphone is very important. I personally don't think that there is a, a voiceover microphone. I think that, I know a lot of people use 416s. Those are tricky in a lot of ways. I think any large diaphragm condenser mic works really well because it's very sensitive and it picks up your voice. I have on my website a list of gear recommendations at three different price points, low to high that I recommend. But really more important than having the most expensive mic is knowing how to use that mic. And so that has to do with placement, understanding --   Anne: What do you mean by placement?   Gillian: So for mic placement, it's really about where you're positioning yourself with the mic, and knowing a mic is circular, you gotta make sure that you're singing or talking into the right part of it.   Anne: That's what I was just gonna say. Yeah. I remember once I had purchased my TLM 103 and I had it installed backwards, and so I was not speaking into the right part of the mic and I couldn't figure out why it didn't sound awesome like everybody else. And literally I had just put it upside down in my mount and then didn't realize that I was speaking into the back of it. And so that is a very important thing. Again, that's something that you can help as well with talent. So I don't want, BOSSes, if you're just new to this, I don't want you to feel overwhelmed because an audio engineer can do amazing things from remote. They don't have to be in your studio. They can really help you to set up a great environment. They can help you with selection or I guess I would say recommendations on a mic that might be good for your voice, right? Also placement, right? And where you should be speaking into that mic. And also maybe with your editing or creating what I like to call -- I have a stack that is basically something that I apply to all of my audio after I record. And that takes out the highs, the lows, does a little bit of compression. Let's talk a little bit about stacks and how they can help in the editing process.   Gillian: Can we go back to microphones for one second?   Anne: Oh yes, I'm sorry. Yeah.   Gillian: No, it's okay. Just, it's so hysterical that you say that about the microphone because --   Anne: Being backwards?   Gillian: I mean it's hard to know. It's hard to know. And something when I was in school that I was taught very early on and I never forget, and it -- I was in school, you know, for music recording, but they're all the same. So my professor would always say sing to the bling. And that means basically when you have a microphone, wherever the logo is, that's where you should be facing. A lot of people, you know, make the mistake of going, oh, I want my Telefunken logo facing out. You would think maybe that's the way it goes. And that's how it ends up backwards. But really, and it doesn't work a 100% of the time 'cause there are a few mics that the capsule doesn't work that way. But most of the time if you see a logo, talk towards that logo. And another thing for just very simple, little explanation for voice actors, if you have an option to pick a polar pattern on your mic, which will come in the instructions, it'll be on the front. You wanna do cardioid, 'cause kind of what you were talking about. Your TLM 103 was set in cardioid and you were facing the back. So all the sound was being rejected, but I know some mics come set in omni, which will increase your room noise because that means that everything around the mic is getting picked up instead of sense, just your voice. So if there's an option for cardioid, just pick cardioid. We can talk about it later, but just pick it.   Anne: Fantastic. So then let's talk again about how we can make our editing a little bit easier on us by using what -- I call them stacks. I don't know if you call them something different, but these are processes that can be applied to your audio to help take out noises. And I would say when I first got my stack, it saved me like 50% of my editing time. Otherwise I kept going in and out of my waves and removing noise, and it just was so tedious.   Gillian: Yeah. So stacks, whatever you wanna call them, it's really just a plug-in sequence, and it's stuff that every time you open it up, you have these settings, and they will save you time. And I think that everyone should have a light one that's just, you know, fixing up a few things, and then obviously the audition one because you send an audition, you wanna sound like the final job that should be a bit more processed. But that usually comes with EQ, compression, and all of those things. You know, if, if your mouth clicks are very present with your mic or with your voice, that would be on there, which would help with removing all those noises, and yeah, those things, having them set ahead of time, those can be issues that people have with audio that are just taken care of right away. But I do think that if you feel comfortable doing them yourself and you think that you can EQ yourself, then good luck, go at it . But I do think that maybe, you know, working with someone who can help you would be helpful.   Anne: I agree. I agree. And, and I will say that just because again, I did not go to school for audio engineering, so I always highly recommend working with a professional. What is it like to work with you in terms of -- let's say, a student wanted to hire you to help them with their sound. What do you do? How do you assess that?   Gillian: So my current offering that I have, which is kind of just starting point and sort of a pipeline into us working together further is I offer an audio assessment. Because there are a lot of people that are selling and selling and selling, and sometimes they sell things that people don't really need. So the audio assessment is sort of a checkpoint. We meet, it's not together, but this is, you know, our interaction. I have some pre-written copy that you'll get. You send me an audio sample, I listen, and I either say, hey, you know, you're really set, you're great, you actually don't need anything. You sound like a pro. Or hey, here are a few things that I would fix, and I address all the things that we talked about today. You know, I think that maybe your mic placement is a little bit off. I think that maybe your gain, you know , all the things I'm hearing. I would EQ it this way. I think maybe a little compression would help your voice. Just the things that I'm hearing to kind of get an engineer's ear on what you're sending to clients and how you sound. And from there we can go on and potentially, you know, build a stack together, and I'm working on building out some courses for people to learn a bit more. But that's what I have kind of right now going.   Anne: Fantastic. So now did you say is there a cost associated with the audio assessment or?   Gillian: Yes.   Anne: Okay. Yes. Okay. So BOSSes, I do believe that we have a special offering from Gillian.   Gillian: We do, we do.   Anne: Yeah. For her to assess your audio. Tell us about that.   Gillian: So for BOSSes and everyone getting involved for the next month or so, I'm gonna be running, you know, $20 off my audio assessments. For the early bird BOSSes, we are going to, for the first five people to get on my site and purchase an audio assessment using the promo code BOSSTOP5, you'll get a free audio assessment. I will kind of go over it, and Anne and I will actually be going over them on our next episode together. So you know, proceed with caution. If you don't wanna be on the show, don't do it. But the first five people will get a free audio assessment and anonymous we will go through and just kind of talk about the issues so that you can hear what I would do, what I'm hearing, just to have it as a further explanation for educational purposes, and for anyone who's not in the first five $20 off for that.   Anne: Well fantastic. I love, love, love that because first of all, as you know, I am all about education, and so I love that we're gonna actually do this stuff in our next episodes. So yeah, bosses, the first five to purchase an audio assessment using the word BOSS Top 5, BOSSTOP5 are going to get a free audio assessment, and we're gonna be on the show. So you're gonna hear Gillian live, assessing your audio, making the suggestions, and we're gonna just be learning as we go. And I love that. So Gillian, thank you so much for that. I think that's a wonderful offer, and thanks so much for being on the show. I feel like we just --   Gillian: Just scratched surface, I know.   Anne: Yes. We have so much more to come, and so BOSSes, I'm proud to announce that Gillian and I are gonna be getting together for more episodes so that we can have an entire audio themed series. And so I'm really excited. Gillian, thank you so much for today's episode and for the BOSS top five, guys, we're gonna be sending out an email. It's also gonna be on our show notes page, so make sure that you check out our VO BOSS show notes page for that offer. And wow, Gillian, thanks so much.   Gillian: Thank you so much for having me, and everybody who's listening, if you have audio questions, get in contact, reach out via Instagram, whatever you do to get a hold of BOSS Queen, Ms. Anne, and let her know 'cause we will cover everything that you wanna know. And I'm just really excited to also, you know, educate people and teach them what they need to know, what they should be hiring people for, and just get everybody sounding their best.   Anne: Okay. And that website is?   Gillian: For me, it's gillwitheg.com. Gill with the G.com. It'll, I'll be linked in the show notes. And same with social media, that's, that's where I am everywhere.   Anne: Fantastic. All right, guys, I'd like to give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and connect like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

The voice over industry is always changing. Pivoting for success is about preparing for that change and learning how to adapt. Anne & Lau are very experienced with pivoting professionally. How else could they keep their businesses thriving for 15 years? Pivoting is not just about immediately making changes to your process, but exploring your options. It’s about taking a step back, looking at what you are doing and asking yourself “Is this working? Is this the right thing?” There's an incredible amount of pressure to stay ahead of the curve and keep up with the latest trends & tech. If you’re not learning new things, you’re falling behind. Don't sweat it, Bosses. Anne & Lau are here to help you embrace these shifts + take advantage of bigger & better opportunities...   Transcript   It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS Podcast and the BOSS Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, along here with my very special guest co-host, Lau Lapides. Hey Lau, how are you today?    Lau: I'm, I'm doing great.    Anne: Awesome. So Lau, last night -- (laughs) -- Late at night, I had the television on, and there was an episode of Friends that came on. It's one of my favorite episodes because I don't know if you watch Friends. Oh, okay.    Lau: Back in the day, are you kidding me? We were all Friends.   Anne: So, do you remember the episode where they're trying to get the mattress up the staircase, and they're having a hard time making the turn? And Ross, Ross kept saying, pivot (laughs). Pivot. Pivot. And it totally made me think of my business, and I thought we could talk about pivoting. So question BOSSes, how good are you at pivoting and making quick changes, doing things in the moment, evolving along and changing direction? Good question. And I think we are at a point in our industry where things are changing, Lau, more than ever before.    I mean, I think things are always changing. We always have to be on the lookout for trends. But I do feel as though we are at a pivotal point, (laughs), no pun intended, a critical point too in the industry where things just may change. And if we wanna survive, Lau, as a business — and I sat back and really thought about this the other day, we have to be able to evolve and change along with that if we want to survive. And I thought, alright, let's ask myself the toughest question. What would happen? ‘'Cause this has been on the forums for good long time now — the threat of synthetic voices, right? Well, what would happen to your business? Right? Ask yourself the question, BOSSes, what would happen if you did not have voiceover anymore? How would you be able to maintain a business or stay in business? How would you pivot?    Lau: That's an excellent question. It's sort of a human question too. We never wanna think about this, but what happens if our career goes down? What happens if our house is gone? What happens if we can't walk anymore? I mean, these are things we don't wanna think about but that do happen in life to people every moment of the day. And it's not unrealistic to say, let me think of three possible scenarios that I could do if my business starts to crash and burn. Or if the pipeline for my business that I so rely upon, those 2, 3, 4 clients are gone? I actually saw one business, Anne, where there was four biggies in the pipeline for a talent, and they all went down. This was at the beginning of a earlier recession, and he had to close his business. He had to close, not because he didn't have the business, because he didn't know how to pivot.    Anne: Well, you bring up such a good point. And you know, the pandemic was a big jolt to everyone's minds in saying, oh gosh, all of a sudden things have changed. Right? And this became like, well, we better make sure our studios are up to snuff and because we're gonna now be working from our home studios. And it became a thing that if you were a talent and you didn't have the proper requirements for your studio, if it didn't sound good, if you didn't have Source Connect or ipDTL or another way to connect to your client, your business might be suffering. And so those that were able to pivot and quickly recognize this and implement that, if they didn't have it implemented already, we're able to pivot. That was, I think, one of the first jolts to, I think a lot of us in the industry, that, oops, something changed and we need to be able to pivot with it in order to be successful or remain successful.    Lau: Now, did you have one, at least one big pivot and during covid that you can recall and say, wow, that was a big shift? I changed, whatever that was? Do you have one in mind that you did during that Covid period right at the beginning?    Anne: That's a good question. Well, first of all, I know that right before lockdown, I was super excited because I was able to complete this studio before that happened. And so when that happened, the great thing was, is that I was prepared. And I know that I already had been active with my ipDTL, so I was thankful for that, right, and Source Connect. And so I technically knew how to use them, I had used them. I was able to then make sure that I had those advertised on my page to make sure I could handle new work coming in, or if people had questions, because it was becoming a requirement now in casting specs.    And so for me, it was literally making a pivot. I also had a lot of people reaching out for coaching, right? So I needed to make sure that I was able to handle the influx, which to me was a wonderful thing, right? I didn't have to necessarily worry so much about not working or losing business because more and more was coming in. So for me, it was an adjustment in terms of my scheduling and how I could fit everything in and do that. But what about you, Lau? Because you had a physical studio. Talk about that.    Lau: Yeah, I did. And I did what every other voiceover talent. I was building my own voiceover studio from home. But the big pivot for me that I didn't even recognize I was doing, besides going online with the business, which was huge — that to me was huge, like, being able to go into the global zone and reach clients that way was terrifying, but incredibly exciting. The other big pivot for me was becoming an agent. So I never, ever dreamed or thought of that or envisioned that as part of my business at all. And then all of a sudden, I was on lockdown with everyone else, and I said, I,  I --   Anne: Yeah, maybe we'll do that.    Lau: And yeah. And my husband said, do you know anything about that? Do you know how to do that? I said, uh, no. I've had agents as a talent, but I've, I've never worked in an agency. I've never worked in an office. I'll figure it out.(laughs)    Anne: I love that. I'll figure it out.    Lau: So it’s that sense of — the way I was trained. Yeah. The way I was trained, my mentors were like, listen, in business, Lau, in business, you have to set up your service. And then you have to figure out how to do it. Because believe it or not, (laughs), right? Miss control factor here, you are not gonna know how to do most things before you sell it. And that to me was outta my mind with that. Like, I had to know exactly how to do everything before I could put it on the market. And I learned that's actually not the way business really runs. Like you're upgrading your product, you're offering new services, and you're kind of piloting it and pulling it to figure out what it is through your client base. And I figured out how to do that. But the big pivot for me was going online.    Anne: That's amazing. So you created another segment of your business, or you grew another segment of your business. And I'm gonna say for me, during the pandemic, it was growing my business for coaching and demo production and producing demos online. Now, I am gonna say, for me, I am so grateful that I came from a background of technology because I was very used to having new things thrown at me and then being able to learn them and adjust and pivot. And I cannot tell you how much that experience helped me through the pandemic and pretty much anything else that as the industry grows here, being able to adjust it.    You know, in the beginning, the fact that I understood technology or I could work with technology helped me when home studios weren't a thing, and then they were a thing. So I understood that it was something I needed to do. Being online, that has always been an inherent part of my experience, and I'm very grateful for that. It's how I brought VO Peeps into light. When I decided to quit my job and then just do full-time VO, I had to really start implementing things quickly so that I could bring in some revenue. And because I had experience in technology, I thought I would say, well, I thought, well, I can create a networking group that's global and that's online. And thus began VO Peeps.    As, you know, things started to evolve. I started to offer classes using streaming technologies and then hybrid classes so that people didn't have to be physically near me to take a class or in person. They could do it online, in Zoom. And so I was able to evolve with that. And so I'm very, very fortunate and I cannot stress enough for those of you out there that maybe are afraid of technology or afraid of your computer or learning new things, I think it's fundamental, number one, to be able to take advantage of the technologies, to help you pivot (laughs) and help you grow. And I think that that's number one, that I feel so lucky that I'm — was able to pivot with the help of technology, and the fact that I knew it — and if I didn't know it, I would learn it. Right Lau, just like you, if you don't know, you're going to have to learn in order to kind of stay afloat and survive.    Lau: I think also along with that, there's this sense of who I thought I'd be or where I thought I'd be by a certain age or a stage of life. And I know a lot of people go through this like, oh, I think I'd be this, or I'd be married by this day, whatever. Believe it or not, I always thought from a young age, I would be like, a talent, full-time, professional talent, because that's what I was trained to do for the first half of my life. And then that was a massive pivot. And very difficult too, because anyone who's a talent who pivots in another direction, whether they become a producer or a director or they own an agency or whatever, there's that loss. There's a little bit of mourning in that. There's that loss of understanding that, sure, I can do a gig or whatever, but my real focus for my business is in this direction.    So that was a massive pivot for me when I opened my studio to really say, I can still do a gig if I wanna do a gig, but it's no longer my focus, it's not my focus point. My focus point is this. And to be able to concentrate and discipline myself to, to pivot in that direction is tough. It's wonderful that we're capable of doing that. But every, like, I'd say, every year, maybe once a year or so, like I just wanna cry my eyes out because I think, oh, what could have happened if I used this in my performance track? You know what I mean?   Anne: First of all, I love that you mentioned that. I wanna say that I've always been of the philosophy that I love performing, right? I love being a voice actor, and nothing beats it. Right? But I give so much credit to my ability and what I've learned over the years to build a business in regard to keeping me safe and able to pivot, right? So again, if I ask the really hard question, okay, synthetic voices are getting good, right? There will be a market for them. There will be people who will pay for them. It will be okay at some point it'll probably evolve because I've gotten used to talking to Alexa. I always use Alexa as my example, but what am I going to do when parts of my business are taken away, right, by the technology? What can I do?    And so asking the really tough question, if there was no voiceover, if the synthetic voice got so good that maybe the market just collapsed, and that could happen, what would I do? And I am thankful, so very thankful that I have the business skills, right? I've built a business and I've maintained that business for 15, longer than 15 years. And so what can I bring with those skills, right, to maybe not perform and do voiceover? What else could I do?    And so I really started to think about, okay, there's lots of kind of things on the side. I have the VO Peeps group. I call it the tendrils of my business, like it's got arms. But really I could do something more with that. Or with the podcast, maybe I could be a podcast host or I could help other people develop their podcast. There's so many things that I am grateful for, again, because I have built my business up. But I think, BOSSes out there, you've got to really, really sit down and think, what will happen if this industry changes in a way that it's not what I intended right now? And am I preparing myself? Am I training myself to be able to evolve and pivot with it?    But I think the whole business skills thing, if you guys are bored, (laughs) BOSSes out there, if you're bored, like, what should I train on next? Right? What should I do? Yes, of course, performance. But don't forget, gosh, about business, marketing -- those things, those skills will be invaluable for you as a business in order to survive whatever pivot you decide or whatever pivot you do.    Lau: Yeah. I couldn't agree more with that. I think you gotta be in the business of being in business. My dad always said, I'm in the business of staying in business, right? So I'm not gonna do something completely unrelated, because it's not within my skillset. Like I'm not gonna go all of a sudden be a nurse. I'm probably not gonna be a firefighter. Could I actually have the skills to apply? Yeah. I really could, 'cause I feel like I've been taking care of people for a lot of years, but I'm not gonna do that. That's out of my realm, but within my realm — you're building hardcore skills, these BOSSes that are listening now. You're really, you may not know it, but you're building skills so that if one area of your business goes down, you don't wanna become obsolete.    It reminds me of the services that were doing, you know, VHS movies, you know what I mean? And you'd go in and you'd rent a movie and take — you and I remember those days, you'd take that movie, you'd rewind it and bring it back. Well, they went out of business, they became obsolete and went out of business when then we went to DVDs, and now we're streaming, and now we're this. So I always wondered, why didn't they go into that area of innovation? Why did they just close down? Why didn't they pivot and shift? Why didn't they go into DVDs? Why didn't they --   Anne: Great example, Netflix.   Lau: I don't know why.   Anne: Right? Netflix, it was videos, right? It was videos that you rented and they mailed them to you. Right? Do you remember that? I feel old now. They mailed them to you for $.99 when you joined, right? And you could just keep getting videos and look at their pivot. Wow. I mean, that's an amazing pivot. Now they're one of the largest online streaming services, and I'm gonna say Microsoft, IBM. Look at these big companies that have been around for a very long time, right, and how they have pivoted and evolved. Look at, I think I was mentioning this to you before, but I had just seen something with Gary Vaynerchuk, who I absolutely love. He just was talking about the tractor. So farmers, when the tractor was invented, they were like, oh, it's gonna take away my job, it's gonna take away my job. And they would scream, and guess what? We evolved, right? So now tractors are being used to help farmers do their job. And so then we can, as humans, do more wonderful things.    So I always think — when people have a thought that, oh my God, this is gonna take my job away. My business is gonna fall out from under me -- I think we need to really think about tractors or that concept that like, okay, how can we use whatever it is that's disrupting our business? And I'm gonna use technology as an example, right, synthetic voices. How can we use that to enhance our business or expand our business? How can we use it to help us do our jobs better? And I'm telling you, BOSSes out there, if you use Positron mm, okay, you cannot be hypocritical, right? Positron uses AI to help you do your job better, right?    And yes, there's a lot of discussion about rights and and licensing and yes, that needs to be addressed. Right? Which is what I've always been talking about. If you're on the ground floor with this stuff, you have a voice to be able to make sure that that will happen. Okay? So I think really, it's going to expand us as human beings. Right? And it's not gonna take over ,because human beings invented it. Right? And I like to believe that not everybody in the world is evil, and that we will ultimately use the technology to help us to build better things and to be greater human beings. Because nothing will take away the fact that we are humans, and we humans like to engage with each other. Yeah, yeah.    Lau: And we also like to innovate. And I think once you sit back and you stop innovating, then you're stopping the whole nature of what business is. I mean, building a business needs to be built from the ground up. Even if someone is handing you a business or selling you a business, you still have to put your stamp on that. And you have to figure out from an integral source about like, how do we do things? Like the best people who run businesses know how to do a lot of the jobs. It doesn't mean they're going to, but they're gonna delegate them. But it, they know how to do a lot of what their business runs on.   Anne: They’re educated. Right? Educate yourself.    Lau: They're educated. So yeah, so the peeps listening now have to think, okay, what are three things right now that are related, directly related to my business that are my skillset that I'm learning and I'm doing that I could literally offer -- I could extend my business if this area goes down, if this area? Like I'm a really great writer. Okay. If you're a great writer, you should be able to write copy, you should be able to write particular scripts in certain genres that you love or that you're really good at. You should be able to sell those potentially.    Anne: But what if AI takes that away from you, Lau, then what? Then where's your pivot? There you go. Mm.    Lau: Well, there it is. You have to continue to -- it's like a tree. I always feel like, I know you feel this way too, Anne, in my business, my life isn't long enough to do everything I wanna do. Like I'm an idea a minute. I, I'm like an advertising agency idea minute kind of person. I'm like, oh my God, yes, I could create a library of this, and then I could do this and then I could offer this. Do I do it all? No, because you can't do it all. You have to make selections and prioritize along the way. But if three things went down, I'd take three other things and build them up. Because I feel like we are expansive. We're expansive of possibilities. There's so much realm we can do.   Anne: Yes, always think of the abundance, right, rather than what's being taken away. People who are stomping their foot and saying no, no to this technology, no to this evolution of what's happening in the industry. I'm sorry, but I'm not gonna stop AI. I'm just not as a single human being. I can have a voice and determine how I use it. Right? And how it will affect me and how it will affect my business. And for me, I am steadfastly committed to not having my business be in any sort of detriment because of it. I will use what I use to enhance my business, and that's it.    But I think we have to always be of the mindset that we need to educate ourselves in order to really think about how are we going to pivot and educate yourself continually think about what it is that you bring to the table that can be another avenue for you or another tendril of your business to start developing now. And it doesn't have to be all voiceover related, although I like to be in parallel. I mean, like you said, you're a good writer. You could write. I mean I organized events. I can organize events. We do a podcast together. How much fun to help other people do podcasts together? There's just a lot of things that I think that can happen if you really just put your mind to it.    Lau: I would love to see people really challenge themselves to take the time — if they're taking a lot of time -- they're fighting the good fight, they're fighting the battles, or they're upset or they're engaging in conversation, they're trying to work out the problems of having these innovations taking over their work, I get that. And to some degree it's necessary to do that, to process through what you're going through. But I'd also like to see people take the time that they're taking to do that to also innovate new ideas and really start to execute and implement those new ideas to see if they can be a viable source of joy and income for them. Because I guarantee you so many people are taking so much time to get angry or gossip or downtalk this or that. Number one, as you said, it's inevitable. We're not gonna stop it. Nor would we wanna stop it --   Anne: So much energy.   Lau: — necessarily, but the — yes. So much energy is going in the wrong direction.    Anne: Fighting (laughs) and trying to stop. And I think honestly -- like, I love that you said the word innovate. And I think that there are too few people that think about themselves as being innovative. Right? And we are, I mean, gosh, we are probably some of the most innovative, creative -- if you're a creative, you're innovative. That's the way I feel. Or you can be innovative if you're creative. Right? And that's where I think we need to stretch ourselves to grow ourselves as BOSSes. Think beyond the booth, think beyond the booth. How can you build your business? How can you grow your business? Doesn't necessarily have to always be within the confines of the booth. And innovate, I love that word. I think that should be like your challenge word for the rest of the year. Innovate. How can I innovate? Yeah.    Lau: How can I innovate? And there's a beautiful little piece of artwork that's in my office that I bought in my travels, and it says create the things you wish existed. And I love that. That's like one of the mottos or affirmations that I have found in my travels that really, every time I look at it, it inspires me to say, okay, I'm not gonna sit and dish(?) day and night about what I don't like and what's going wrong and why did I lose this, and how come I'm not making money at that? I'm gonna say, woo, hold on. Whoa Nellie, let's go to here and say I'm gonna do this. How can I make this work? How can I make this happen?    And that opens up the portal to a whole world inevitably that that door closes, that door opens, it opens up that whole world that if I didn't ask that question, if I didn't go down that path, none of that would've happened. If I stayed in this sort of negative vibe zone of just being really irritated that it didn't go the way I wanted it to go or I feel like something's been taken from me, or I've been violated in some way — I'm gonna empower myself to say, but wait a second, I've got all of these powerhouse sources within me that I can now grow that can take the place of that. That's how entrepreneurs really think in order to survive. Because not everything thrives and not everything lasts forever. And how they do the comeback. People like Cher and Madonna, how do they do the comeback every time?    Anne: Can I just say this? I know Madonna gets a lot of criticism. But look at a woman who knows how to pivot(laughs). She has lasted in the industry, right, for, 40 years. Right?    Lau: Right. And then great actors like Tom Hanks or whatever, how did they, how did they pivot when they physically change? They emotionally changed. How did they shift?    Anne: Meryl Streep, I'm just saying.   Lau: They’re not gonna get the same roles.    Anne: Every new role, pivoting, evolving, still remaining relevant. I mean it's inspirational really.    Lau: Yeah.    Anne: So, yeah. Yeah.    Lau: It's totally inspirational because I could sit there and I could say, I'm really upset though, Anne. I'm very sad and angry that I don't look 25 anymore. I'm gonna try like heck to look 25, and I can do that. But wouldn't it be better to say, but wait a second, I'm 40 or I'm 60, and I'm gonna bring out the intense beauty and wisdom I have now that I didn't absolutely have when I was 25.   Anne: Sarah Jessica Parker. Right? I'm going gray. I'm just --   Lau: That's what it is.    Anne: Right. Like just to continue to evolve and continue to innovate, be relevant. And really, I think BOSSes, it's something to just sit back and think when you're on vacation next time maybe, and you've got some downtime, and really think about how you may pivot as times change. And sometimes you just don't know what's gonna happen. But I like to present myself, well, if this happens, I will do this. Or maybe I'll start pursuing educating myself here, because I see things happening this way. And I think it's hard to be a visionary, but I always try to be. I do know that after working 20 some odd years in technologies, that I cannot stop it.    And I say it's over and over again. You might think I'm a broken record, but I cannot alone stop technology from happening ever. And it just became a thing. And I think once you realize and you kind of accept that, it helps you to pivot, it helps you to to be innovative. It helps you to think about how can I utilize what I've got in front of me, not just technology, but utilize what I have, who I am and what I have in front of me to grow and to become better and to maintain a successful business.   Lau: And be okay with change. Be okay with things not being the way you know them to be. That's tough. I always found that difficult ‘cause I loved things that were familiar to me and things I knew. Just be okay with the shift and change of the pivot. It’s like you're going to something new. It's not going to be replicating what you did before. And if you're okay with that --   Anne: Roll with the bumps.    Lau: — you're a little bit bravery, you're more courageous. Roll with the bumps, 'cause innovation is not always success. Innovation is trying, you know what I mean? It's taking chances. It's taking calculated risks. It does not say that you're going to be successful because you're pivoting. It means you have the opportunity to be successful.    Anne: If you are riding bucking bronco -- I always say this 'cause I rode horses as a young girl, right? And as a young girl, this was the sitting trot. Okay? And any of you horse lovers out there that rode, being able to sit a trot and be able to let go of your hips and roll — because a horse's movements are not always perfectly smooth. It's hard to anticipate sometimes. Or if a horse spooks, you have to literally be able to roll, roll with the changes so that you don't get thrown off that horse. Right? So, I don't know, maybe --   Lau: Is that where we get roll with the punches?   Anne: — the punches aren't as hard. Right? Is if you resist against those punches, right, it's gonna hurt a whole lot more. Wow. Good stuff.    Lau: Right.    Anne: Oh my God.    Lau: Right, right. I love it. It's so true.    Anne: Now we know you can do it. So I'm going to give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and connect like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And also, I want you to imagine the world full of passionate, empowered, diverse individuals like we all are. As BOSSes giving collectively and intentionally to create the world that you want to see, a lot of what we just discussed today. You can make a difference. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to find out more. You guys, have an amazing week. We love you. We'll see you next week. Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

  When you're an voice actor, growing your business is not just about booking another job. It's a whole process of making your business work. That process is full of potential risks, big investments...and even bigger successes. In this episode, Anne & Lau discuss making money, investing money back in your business, and fears surrounding money. In today's world, it's not enough to just be a great voice over talent. You also need to be a savvy businessperson. And that means understanding the basics of finance, including how to invest in your own business & make sure you're doing it intelligently. Money can be a scary topic to think about, and even scarier to talk about. You're not alone if you feel scared. It means that you care!   Transcript    It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I am here with the lovely and most wonderful VO BOSS co-host (laugh) Lau Lapides. Hey Lau.   Lau: Hey everyone. Hey Anne.   Anne: How are you this week?   Lau: Oh, fabulous.   Anne: Awesome.   Lau: As always. How are you? How are you?   Anne: I'm good, but you know what? I think it's time that we had a talk about money, and I know we spoke about raising rates before, but I think maybe it's because -- okay, so I admission, I downloaded Rocket Money for my iPhone, and I started to see like, where are my expenses going? What income's coming in? What am I paying on a monthly basis? And I'm just gonna start by saying that when you're trying to either cut your expenses -- and I wanted to start at least on that, if you find that you need to cut your expenses so that you can make a profit, right? Because, I mean, this is why we do VO, right? We are a business, we'd like to make a profit. It's good to find out the areas in which you're spending money. And it surprised me -- it, well, it didn't surprise me a whole lot because I've always said that a podcast is a labor of love. But I'm going to tell you that my discovery was that this podcast, with all the different things that I have going on and paying people to help me transcribe, edit, put out videos, do some social media stuff, cost me on average per year, just about $15,000 and that is not a small amount of money. (laugh) It's something, when you have a business, that's something you've gotta keep your eyes open and really look at and decide, is this worth my investment?   Lau: Yes. Absolutely. And that's, look, is that true of any business, not just our business? You really should be having some sort of a business model at the start, even if it's a skeletal one, having an idea of what's my growth? Where is my growth in the first three years, three to five years of my business? That's really the time, I mean, according to statistics, that most businesses do fail is within the first five years. So it is really important to say, okay, here's my basic model and here are the first year projects. Here are my second year projects. What do I think I'm going to gross? Like, where is my gross coming from? Where is my net? And just like basic financial language so that when you get to that powerhouse podcast, like what you have, you're not outta your mind going, what? How is that possible to invest that kind of money? Right?   Anne: Well, and I think it's something too though, and I spoke about this earlier this week on another webinar, how being an entrepreneur and having a, a voiceover business, it takes courage. It really does. It takes courage to get out there. And I know there's so many people that tend to get into this industry thinking, oh, I can work from home. All I have to do is go in my studio and record and I'll make my money. But nobody really thinks about the cycle of money. Right? Because there's an investment that has to happen. And I think our brains kind of shut that off when we first get started, because all we're thinking about is, oh, I just have to go in my studio and record, and I'll just make that money. But for every business to, I think, function successfully, there is money that you need to invest.   And it takes courage to invest money really takes courage to, especially if, let's say you're doing this full-time and you're just starting, and we're in that time period where maybe you're not comfortable yet or feel like you're making any kind of headway or profits (laugh) in the first few years. So Lau, I mean, you went even further than just a voice talent. I mean, you have a studio (laugh) like... and that is a considerable investment. And so what was it like when you were first investing in this like a physical studio, right? I mean, there's rent, there's (laugh), you know, there's equipment. What was it like for you when you first got involved in that in terms of was it scary?   Lau: Well, I'll be honest, as I try to be all the time, I was shitting bricks. I mean, it was terrifying. (laugh) I'm sorry, your engineer might have to take that one out, but listen, I think our audience can deal with that.   Anne: I think so too.   Lau: Yeah. I'll be honest with you, I was 40, I was not a young kid. I was already, you know, getting to middle-age, and I was offered a space -- this is how it happened for me. I was offered a space through my dad who was a big real estate owner, and he was an amazing entrepreneur unto himself in his own right. And he looked at me one day and he said, I have a space that's opening up, Lau. It's in a prime location. Location is everything, when you're looking at space, whether you're looking to live or own a business, I wanna give it to you, not give it to you, but I wanna offer it to you. And how do you feel about that?   And I remember exactly where I was. I was in a Dunkin Donuts, I know the exactly where it was, how I felt, and I could feel my heart, Anne, drop into my stomach as if you're on the edge of a cliff, like I could feel it like you're gonna jump out of a plane. And all I could say is in the most important times of my life with the biggest decisions, all I could say was yes. That doesn't mean I was like, knew what the hell I was doing. It just meant more of me wanted to do it than not wanna do it. And I knew, I knew in my heart it was now or never, that that was the window of time to do it. So taking on that level of financial investment, taking on prime territory space, all these things that we do need to think about is a leap of faith. A tremendous leap of faith.   Anne: Yes. I was just gonna say that, it's a tremendous leap of faith, and something that I think that -- you know, it's great to have a leap of faith and belief and a passion and a dream to follow it. But I think you also have to have the street smarts to do that in an intelligent way. Right? Because we're not gonna make investments if we don't have some money to back that up, of course. And before we can get to that place to where we might have money to invest, right, there might be places in our career where we can start to save a little money and put that away. And I've said this multiple times, that the most confident I was ever in my business was when I had a savings account, that I had enough money in there that I could make sure that I could pay the mortgage for the next three months, six months -- actually it was six months -- and I would feel okay if the work didn't come in, or if I needed to make an investment. That confidence led me to take the leap of faith and take the risks that was required for me to actually grow beyond where I was.   Because otherwise, I think we just sit here in our studio, and we sit there, and we try to get job after job and we audition, we audition, we audition. But where is the growth? I mean, you could audition your life away, right? But if you're not taking a leap of faith or a risk somewhere and making an investment -- and investment doesn't always have to be money. But I'm gonna say that for most of us, right, the money is like in your face, (laugh), you know what I mean? It's like, that's the kind of risky, scary stuff that it's like, oh no, I've gotta pay what? (laugh) And even if you're talking about a demo, right, or something, you're just getting started or a new microphone, it can be overwhelming, the investment, the money. And I think we're both here to say that, look, you're not alone if you're scared. Right? You're not-- or if you're nervous about that.   Lau: No, no. And you have to be, it's important to me because that level of fear, apprehension, that level of anxiety is also telling yourself that you care. You really care about what happens to you, what happens to the business, what happens to your money, what happens with safety and security. Like you're connected to that ,you care. You're not just saying, oh yeah, it'll be easy and fun. Let me just throw a hundred grand at it and let's see what happens. You're really connected to the outcomes in understanding that sacrifice is happening. You have to be ready to sacrifice to have a business, especially a brick and mortar business.   Anne: Oh gosh, yes.   Lau: Yeah. Like all of our wonderful restaurant friends during Covid really sacrificed and suffered. Well, so did we to some degree. Like we can have a home studio, which is amazing. But if you have any kind of brick and mortar, you have to be ready to sacrifice to keep that shingle up every single month. Every every month it has to be up. You can't just take six months off from it or a year off from paying your rent or your mortgage, or the heat, or I always say, you know, there's toilet paper, there's all sorts of ancillary services that you are providing if you have any kind of a brick and mortar that the public comes into. You have to have insurance. You have to make sure if God forbid, someone gets hurt, you're covered. You have to make sure that, you know, on and on it goes. Taxes are paid, property taxes, on and on it goes. So not to scare anyone, but to sort of keep it real, that even if you're in a home studio, someone is taking care of that home. Someone is paying that rental on that apartment. Someone is, and it's probably you. Right? So it is a level of sacrifice and understanding that I need to continue doing this in order to build this into a viable business, a real business that makes profit.   Anne: Yeah. And I think too, something that's very key is in terms of having the courage, right, to make investments, we're investing in a business that is very much a business about us. Right? It's very much a personal brand. This is about our voice. This is about us being able to perform a service with our voice, which is such a personal part of us. And if we see failure, I think it compounds it. It's not like, oh, I have a product here, a new formula. Right? But when it's our voice, and it's when it's all about us, and we're talking about making an investment in us and giving that money up to invest in us -- if it does not work, right, it affects us personally. And I think that is where a lot of the fear comes in for people coming into this industry.   And I'll tell you what, it doesn't go away. And I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer, but the bigger you get, right, the more you grow and the more you invest. And so I'm gonna say from the beginning it was just about, well, let me invest in my coaching, let me invest in my demos. Then it became, I've got to invest in, create an S Corp or an LLC or let me invest into a better studio now. And then also I have to invest in other things. Now I've gotten to the point where if I haven't grown every year, I'm looking at my growth. And if I'm not growing, I have to figure out, well what do I need to do to continue that growth? And we can talk about outsourcing, right? I pay people, gosh, for at least 10 years, I've been paying people to help me do things. And the team, I have a team and and that team again is another investment in my business and in my growth.   Lau: Yes. I mean, we can flower this out for hours, this program because we can't even get into the level of detail as you grow. Like we both have a business, roughly both of us are at like the 15 year mark. So can you stay static? Sure. Can you stay in a comfort zone? Absolutely. And I totally am okay with that and respect people who say, I'm capped, I'm at my ceiling, I'm happy with what I'm doing. I'm happy with my services, but I'm not. Like, I'm insatiable in the sense of wanting to provide more value, to educate more, to lift the level of income, to go from, as they say now in the ether, it's very big. Go from six figure to seven figure. How do you do that? Well, you do that through scaling. So everything that you're talking about, Anne, that we built our our businesses on, which is the person, the personality, the personalization, which is what we try to bring to our copy as talent. Right? How do we personalize a real person.   Also, there's a sacrifice in that too. And it's a very hard gray zone. How do I keep the personalization and keep the boutiqueness of my product and scale? Which is automization, which is about, you know, you're in the whole AI world. It's about like, how do I get into a place where things are being funneled and things are being structured in a system? It's no longer high touch. Like I don't have to be a part of every transaction. And then at the end of the day, it's not about me anymore; it's about the process or the product. And that's like to wrap your brain around that, when you start a business that's so personal and so high touch, is just a jump. It's a jump. It's a transition that a lot of us are working towards making. Keeping it personal. Keeping it real for us. Keeping it something we love and care about, but allowing our control to get out of the way so that other systems and controls can come in. And keep providing value at a much larger level.   Anne: Absolutely. And I think in terms of money, (laugh) I say money, and I don't want people to think --   Lau: I like how you said that.   Anne: -- that Anne, money, she's obsessed with money, that Anne. But here's the deal for me, like again, I always talk about wanting to grow my business. And so for me, it becomes a challenge. And I've always been a girl that takes on challenges. And so you have to feel comfortable with money, number one. And you have to feel comfortable investing money to make money. Right? And then to be accepting of that money. And again, that goes back to like, know you're worth, charge an appropriate fee so that you can make that money, so that you can reinvest in parts of your business to continue to grow, and take that opportunity to just embrace the thought of money (laugh) in abundance. Right? You're always talking about abundance, Lau. And again, I'm not gonna get too woo woo here, but I think manifesting that worth, you need to manifest that worth out to your potential clients so that they say, oh yeah, absolutely. My goodness, can I pay you more money to do what you're doing, (laugh)?   Lau: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.   Anne: That's what I want. And really that's how it comes. And I think that as entrepreneurs, you have to not just think of yourself as a voiceover artist. That's why I'm always saying, I'm not just a, a voiceover actor, a voiceover artist. I am an entrepreneur, and I am as much in tune with growing my business as I am with getting the next gig.   Lau: Yeah. No question about it. And you have to figure that out over time. You know, I became someone who became most comfortable -- here was talk about being in a discomfort zone. I was in a discomfort zone opening a business and putting everything on the line. But I figured out about myself, which ultimately became my brand, was I was much happier giving value to someone else and growing their career and seeing them flourish than for myself. And that's a pure irony 'cause I was an actor for many years. I was a voice talent for many years. But that was a level of sacrifice that I was willing to make because I had to really honestly identify what is your niche? What is your niche? What do you offer the best? What do you do the best? You can do 10 million things, but what do you do the best? And I figured out it was, I like leading I like creation. I'm the idea creator. And I like executing those more than I like doing the talent piece for myself. And that took me years to figure that out. That was a revelation. I almost felt guilty about that because I was in such an actor's mindset for so many years.   Anne: Very interesting.   Lau: And I thought, why would you give that up? Why would you stop doing that? I've had clients that say, why aren't you doing it? I'd say, okay. Because I was building a business that was giving this value to other people and that satisfied me. That satisfied me tremendously. And I figured out that that's okay. Like that's enough. And it, not only is it enough, but you've got a lot more to build.   Anne: That's like coaching and teaching for me. Right? I mean, again, it's something that -- and performing as well --but I think that inherent, I like to mentor, to inspire, to help people grow their businesses, to grow their skills. And that to me gives the joy a lot of the joy in my business. And yes, money. (laugh), again money. And I say that unabashedly and unashamedly because I need to pay the bills. I do, I need to pay the bills. But it's not the top game. It's, I've gotta have joy first and then that money will come. I believe that. Because if I'm following my business, if I'm following my gut and my intuition to how I wanna grow that business, I'm always chasing the joy and the passion. And if that happens to be in my business, then yes, I'm going to yield a profit.   Lau: Yeah. And I think it comes down to too is women in our industry and in the world at large, we're always figuring out, you know, what does value mean? What is our value in the world and in this industry? Value is many things. It's monetary, it's actual process related. It's sacrifice and charity. It's, it's a lot of things. But at the bottom line, we can't be afraid of the money, and contracts, and negotiation, and saying -- one of the more famous campaigns of L'Oreal that I always loved was get this, and I'm worth it. You know what I mean? That was a L'Oreal campaign, I thought as a kid, I was like, ooh, that makes me cringe. It's like so arrogant to say that, whatever. But as you get older and you've build your business, you have to say, here's what I provide. This is a value to you. And it's worth it. Right? There's a worth to it.   Anne: Absolutely. And it's also, there's purpose beyond profit. Right? And I think that if some people might take a look at things like with big businesses and today, the big companies out there and say that greed is at the base of all of it. But I'm going to say that for me, it's not greed, but I wanna say that as I prosper, right, again, I want to give back even more. It comes from a place of, well I personally like think that wealth is more than just money. It can be mindset, it can be time, it can be a lot of things. But as my business grows and my financial wealth grows, I am willing to donate. I'm willing to share that, be philanthropic. And so I think a lot of times when people criticize billionaires and millionaires and say it's an uneven system -- but I'll tell you, there's a lot of billionaires that do good as well as make a lot of money.   Lau: Sure. Absolutely. And I can tell you the stats now is that 99% of companies in our nation, all companies in our nation are considered small business. And I started to research what is small business? Small business is defined as 500 or less employees. So I felt so satisfied knowing I was a small business. But I was in the company of most businesses.   Anne: Yes, absolutely.   Lau: Most businesses are small. And so there's layers of this sacrifice that you're looking at to say, okay, well if I need to make money in order to survive, make it a viable business, in our industry would say tag, what's our tag -- one of the best financial advisors who I love so much, Susie Orman, used to say it's people first, then money, then things. And I love that. And I sort of live by that in my own right, because it's, for me, relationships. It's about value, it's about -- but right behind it is money because I can't keep doing that and sustaining that without financial benefit, nor can anyone. And when we go back to the origins of our businesses, Anne, and when we're starting our businesses, and you have --take your pot of gold, you take your savings.   I like you, was a really good saver. I'm very frugal. I'm not a super materialistic person. So I would tend to save the money. I would take that pot of gold, take that savings and say, I'm not spending anything. Even though it's scary, I'm not. I'm investing in something that I know is viable. And that to me is the first step of having a real business and saying, I have the belief system. I have the belief system based on research, homework, relationships, and knowledge of what my skillset is that this can work and this will work. And as they say, failure is not an option. It's not an option. Don't give yourself an out. Like keep yourself accountable. I oftentimes say I am the toughest, toughest BOSS I've ever worked for.   Anne: Oh my God. Me too. I'm a real witch.   Lau: Tough.   Anne: Yeah. (laugh). Yeah. I said, oh my God, that I do that. I'm a real -itch.   Lau: (laugh) that big. Right. What is she making me do today? Right. But that's that accountability, it's the internal accountability that I know creates sustainability. That's what it does.   Anne: And I think -- one thing I always like to bring up is I keep this in mind. Mind your own business, your own business. And that means don't let others influence you on what your business should look like, how much money you should be making, that kind of a thing. Because in reality it is your business. And honestly, nobody needs to know. And as a matter of fact, I'm always really quiet. Number one, I work a lot in the area of the market that has NDAs. And so I'm very low profile on any work that I'm doing or any gigs that I'm getting. And I don't even like to necessarily report.   Some people put money, oh, I made so much money this week and clients. And, and that for me is not the way to really talk about my business because I think in that way, some people think maybe it inspires some people, but I also think there's a lot of people who aren't talking about that, that it makes feel bad. They feel bad about that. And I don't want any of you BOSSes out there to feel bad about your business because it is your business. And that the same goes for, I'm gonna say this, whatever money you're making, I mean, yes, there are concerns I have with certain online casting sites, but I will never judge someone for running their business the way they see fit because it is your business.   Lau: Me too. And that's, of course, we all know that's the biggest, one of the bigger sources of conversation especially in the early to mid-range market of people who are in the market. It's like, should I do this? Should I be on a pay-to-play? Should I do that? And here's what I say, I simply say this as a coach, I'm putting my coaching hat on, saying Listen, you have a business that you are running, and you have to sit down with pen and paper, and you have to say, what am I reaching for this year? What are my goals and how am I going to get them? And you need to leave everyone out of that. The circle you've created are there for you to come back to, to connect to, to befriend, to help. But that's not the time. The time is your inner search. My inner search is, I want to do this. I need to do this. How am I going to do this? When you start listening to too many voices and too many points of view, you get really confused. And at the end of the day, you have to cook your dinner, you have to eat it, and you have to live with what it tasted like.   Anne: And there's nothing wrong with supplemental income while you're building your business. I mean, in any industry, we've all got our talents. And so especially for me coming from the corporate educational world into an entrepreneurship with my own business, that's night and day in terms of (laugh). Oh my gosh. Before I didn't have to worry about who's doing the accounting. I just show up, I show up to my job, but do my job. I get paid every two weeks. Now all of a sudden, that is so not what I'm doing with an entrepreneur business.   Lau: A lot of folks are coming in and they're under this delusion of like, how do I get what you have? How do I come in at the rate that you're at? I say, I said, okay, well you have to do like 30 years and you have to do this, this, and this. Like side hustle was my middle name when I -- before I opened. Before I opened my studio, I literally was what they call in in California, you know this term, a highway flyer. What I would do is I'd get in my car and I'd go to six different colleges. This was after graduate school. Six, count it, guys, six, 'cause I was adjunct. I was not a full-time. And I would teach two to three classes per college per semester. Count it. I was up to 15 classes one semester. Right?   Because I was adopting children. I had to have cash for that. I was starting a business. I had to have cash for that. And you have to have cash flow. It can't be tied up. You have to have flow ready to go. I like to say right now I loved it'cause I'm like a type A personality. So I loved all that stuff. But to the average person, that's crazy. They'd say, wait a second, how did you do all of that? And you were a performer and you were a director, and, and, and? I said, because I loved it and I had passion for it and I was working my way up the ladder.   Anne: Yep. Absolutely.   Lau: So to speak. Do I wanna do that now? No, I don't because I'm at a different place now. But I can't come in saying, oh, how do I walk into this, Lau, and how do I get all the clients I want and be at six figures? And I said, well you gotta pay some dues. You have to pay some dues and it's not bad either. I had fun doing that. I loved it. I had a ball. I was like always testing. How much can I do? Where can I go?   Anne: Yeah. I'm right there with you. And I'm gonna say the challenge to me --   Lau: I miss it. (laugh)   Anne: -- that floors me. I mean that just makes me so excited. The challenge. Right? Rising up to the challenge. But it's not that I didn't curl up in a fetal ball (laugh) every once in a while and cry, just saying, guys. There have been times when it's frustrating and it's hard, and there's nobody there. Sometimes I'm like, why? Why do I do this? I can't even talk to anybody about it. Like I could be running into these issues. And I'm like, I don't know what to do. I've never experienced this before. How do I do this? And then there's no answers. And I'm like, (laugh), why is it so hard? It's so hard. But guys, most days I like to say I rise to the challenge, but I'm also gonna completely admit to you that yeah, sometimes I'll curl up in the fetal position and cry, but it's worth it.   Lau: But you know what? You know how you get out of that position? You know how you get out? 'Cause we all do that. When you email me and you say, Lau, what we just did made a difference.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: And then I keep that. I keep every single one of those. I put 'em in my little e folder, I'll print a few out. And just when I'm like sobbing my eyes out thinking none of this is worth it, I look at that and I go, oh my God. But for this person, it literally changed their life. It literally changed the trajectory of how they think. To me, there's no better work than that.   Anne: I agree.   Lau: And, and I get to make money. And I get to make my own hours and my own structure, and yes, it'll drive you crazy 'cause most of us need structure and usually expect it from someone else. But it's so wonderful to have that level of creative and artistic freedom.   Anne: Agreed. Totally agree.   Lau: I'd rather work my butt off for myself. (laugh).   Anne: I can't ever work for somebody again. Pretty much. That's the way it works.   Lau: I can't either.   Anne: Except for voiceover 'cause it's one. And you know, get in, get out real quick. I mean I have some great clients that I keep coming back to, but yeah, absolutely.   Lau: Of course, of course. That doesn't mean you can't job in for an agency or job in for this. But that's not the same as running your own biz. When you run your own shop, you don't mind working really, really, really hard. 'cause you know you're building something that's a legacy for you.   Anne: Absolutely. Woo, what a great conversation. I'll tell you. So BOSSes, money, money, money, (laugh). Don't be afraid of it. Use it wisely. Invest it wisely so that you can grow your business. Lau and I certainly have the faith, we have the faith in all of you out there that this can be done. You can be successful. So don't be afraid of money. And also I'm gonna say that when you, BOSSes, you are BOSSes out there. And if you have a little bit of extra money, maybe you have a local nonprofit that's close to your heart. If you know a nonprofit that you would like to do more to help them and to give back, you can visit 100voiceswhocare.org to find out more. And a big shout out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and connect like BOSSes, like Lau and myself. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week.   Lau: See you next week, bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Video game acting is a unique art form that requires strong acting skills & an imaginative approach to storytelling. Anne is joined by special guests Dave Fennoy & Randall Ryan to discuss all things Game VO. Voice actors must bring their characters to life in a way that's authentic & impactful for players. Believe it or not, the average age for video game players is 40 years old, and these people have been playing games for 15+ years. These players are seeking a high level of story sophistication & depth of character when playing games. For a voice actor, Game VO recording is often a solitary and non-linear process due to logistics, but it still requires a deep understanding of the character you're playing, the world they inhabit, and their relationship to other characters. Invent as you go. Know your character, the world, and how your character would react in the moment. As with any genre, it’s best not to overthink things too much before recording, but instead trust yourself as an actor and allow yourself to get creative during the session itself. And if you want to work with the pros, stay tuned for a unique opportunity to relax, recharge, and level up your game VO skills with Dave & Randall…   Transcript    It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am pumped to level up my BOSS knowledge about Game VO, and I am so excited and honored to have the best in the industry, Dave Fennoy and Randall Ryan. Dave is a renowned voice actor and instructor based in LA with a vast portfolio of work in commercials, narration, TV promo, animation, and of course video games. He's best known for his character, Lee Everett in the Walking Dead Game, and has voiced characters for more than 500 games on some of the industry's biggest titles. And IMDB has named him one of the 20 best male game voices of all time.   Randall Ryan began his career as a musician in touring rock bands, and today is an award-winning composer and producer of gaming and commercial music scores. He co-founded Hamster Ball Studios back in 1995, where he's been directing talent and producing game audio for more than 20 years and has since contributed to numerous high profile video game titles. Also, co-host of Let's Talk Voiceover podcast and still performs the occasional live gig and thinks dogs make the best people. And I of course, think cats, but maybe that's for another podcast discussion, Randall, I'm not sure.   Randall: Who's your animal spirit podcast?   Anne: There you go. Guys, thank you so much for joining me. I am so excited to talk to you today,   Dave: Oh, it's our pleasure. Happy to be here.   Randall: Absolutely.   Anne: So what I love, BOSSes, is that I have both sides of the glass here today so that we can get a really comprehensive view of game VO as it exists today. So I'd like to start off with Randall and ask you as a casting director, can you give the BOSSes an idea of the game VO market as it stands today, let's say, compared to 20 years ago when you first started?   Randall: Well, yeah, that's almost an unfair comparison. I think what I would say is 20 years ago, games were just kind of coming into their own as even an art form. And now as I think a lot of people know, it is the gorilla of the industry. I mean, last year games sold more than film and music combined.   Anne: Wow.   Randall: Which is just amazing. And the other thing that I see that's very different from 20 years ago is 20 years ago, it was certainly the wild west when it came to voice acting. It was often like the person of the cubicle next to the developer, and they were just throwing some voices in. And if they hired actors, there was not a lot of, I don't know if I would use the word respect. It just wasn't really truly a real part of -- VO was an afterthought. And I think the difference is, is now is not only has gaming VO reached a really high place as art form, but the thing that I really see and, and it's the reason that I think you don't pay attention to game voice as your own peril if you're a voice actor, is it is changing every other genre.   Commercials are different because of gaming acting, and even for the people that don't know it that are writing copy, they've been growing up with games. They've been playing games, and they, and they also see other commercials that have been going to more gaming acting principles. And so even if they don't know that, that's where that creative is driving from -- bottom line is that is where that creative is driving from. So even if you're not going to be in games, I think it's really important as an actor to understand what it takes to be a VO game actor. It's kind of like, even if you're gonna be on film, you really need to understand theater. You need to understand all the principles of it. It's very much the same kind of thing. You may not wanna be a Broadway actor, but you don't study theater kind of at your own peril. I think it's kind of the same idea.   Anne: Well, probably if I had to count the amount of times you said acting --   Randall: Yeah. Well   Anne: Right, in that response? So acting is so very important. Not just I think to game view, but just to voiceover in general, especially now. And I'd like to ask you, Dave, let's talk a little bit about acting and your thoughts on why it's so important that voice talent today really have that acting prowess. Dave: You know, when we talk in the general world of voiceover, acting is important, but it's more important when you are looking at video games. We become a good actor in voiceover to be able to be ourselves or a character similar to ourselves for commercials and narration, or even TV promos. But we're looking for something wider range, a much wider range of who these characters are and with a different purpose. If you're doing TV promos or commercials, your job is to get people to buy a product, watch a TV show.   As an actor in a video game, your character drives the story forward. Whoever your character is, whatever it is they are doing, they are part of a story, not part of trying to sell you something or get you to do a particular act. And what the audience for video games is now, one, they're averaging about 40 years old, and they've been playing video games for 15 to 20 years. And they want an adult experience, and they don't mean adult like chicka chicka wow wow.   Dave: But they're looking for cinematic performances, which means more subtle, more real. Your performance has to fit into the world that these games are in. It's not about your voice, no matter what your voice sounds like. It's about can you let this character inhabit you and bring this character to life with just words on a page and a microphone? And there are various techniques that really are founded in acting principles that'll help you get there.   Randall: And, Anne, I'm gonna add one thing to what you said too. You are right that your primary job in a commercial is to, I guess you could say, is to sell a product. But really in essence, even as an actor, is that really your job? Your job is still to inhabit that scripts, and, and this is where I think some of the changes are coming from. And so in the same way that there are certain people who are spokespeople that the whole celebrity thing has happened, but a lot of times you're putting the celebrity in because people like them. They aren't really selling --   Dave: Because people like them and believe them.   Randall: And believe them. Absolutely. And so people are putting him in there not to actually sell. You know, did Matthew McConaughey sell Lincoln? He didn't. He drove around and said some talking. But he's playing in essence, even though it's him, he's playing this character. And I think even in commercial, to understand what that character is supposed to be that the writing is, you still have to be that character more now than you ever did before.   Dave: Which brings us back to your point, Randall, that learning to be a good video game actor or good actor will help you across the board in voiceover.   Anne: Yeah. I'm just gonna say, with my experience working with students for not just commercial, but a lot of the long format narration, like corporate narration and explainers and, and medical, I mean, even then there is a role. It may not be as dynamic or as long played out as, let's say, a video game, but there is still that acting that has to come into play. And I'm gonna talk about how important I think it is, especially now with the advancements in technology. But I wanted to ask you about the story. Okay, so the story for a video game is a lot different than, let's say, a story that's laid out in front of you.   So like a story, if you're assuming that you're gonna be in a commercial, you're gonna be selling a product, there's a character backstory you can develop. Like you want it to end up that the person agrees with you and says, yes, this is a great product for me. If it's corporate narration, it's kind of a nicely wrapped up little story about a corporate story about their brand. But with video games, it's ever changing, and it's not necessarily all laid out in front of you. And I was gonna also do the example of an audiobook where you've got the entire book and the story's laid out in front of you. But yet with a video game, do you know the entire story right away? Or is it something that develops?   Dave: Chances are you will never ever see the entire script. The video game industry is very secretive. We have all in the video game industry signed hundreds of NDAs, non-disclosure agreements, because they're very secretive. They don't want anybody to know or share what's going on in their game. So even when you audition, sometimes you have to sign an NDA before you can even do the audition or send it in with your audition. And you're gonna get a few lines of whoever this character is, maybe a little bit about the game itself, but never "this is what the entire storyline is and this is what happens." You will never see that script. If you're an actor in a movie, in a play, in a television show, you'll see the whole script. You'll know your character's arc. Being a character in a video game is much more like being who you are. You have certain tendencies, a world, a belief system. But when you walk out the door every day, you don't know what's gonna happen to you.   Anne: That's a very different skillset, I would think. Because each and every time you are getting that script or that little tiny portion of it, you're either developing the scene, the backstory, and the emotion. And so that's like constant, like I would think acting requirement for that just is through the roof .   Dave: Well, you developed the character in that audition. But when you get there, say you did five, maybe ten lines, now you've got 100, maybe 500 lines. And some of them may be paragraphs or monologues. And it's a matter of being in character and going with what is this character thinking, feeling, doing, being, who are they talking to in this particular moment in time?   Randall: Yep. God, there's so many things that that just brings to mind, but, well, what is Mark Dale's quote, a mutual friend of ours, he's a director in London. Yeah.   Dave: This is the exhaust of the acting engine.   Randall: That's one. And then he is got that little spy thing, which I think when you're talking about how do you deal with a video game character, that to me is like, yes, that's actually it.   Dave: One of the things Mark likes to talk about is the spy who is in another city, another country, another place using a different name, dressing different, pretending to be this other person. And his life or her life depends on how well they roll with the punches, roll with a different situation, somebody else asking them particular questions, and it's constant improvising in character.   Randall: Yes.   Anne: I love that. That's such a different way to look at that. Okay, so when you're talking about how to, I guess, evolve that character is sometimes the story -- well, I imagine you would know this -- developed as you also developed the character and then the story might change?   Dave: Well, you know, it's interesting. Uh, during the Walking Dead game, sometimes I would arrive at the studio, and the script got there 20 minutes before me. So yes, actually sometimes the writing is right there with you. So sometimes they wouldn't have been able to tell you anyway because certain things hadn't been written yet. Especially in something that's ongoing, episodic like that, but whether they know it or not, you as an actor are not going to see the entire script. You are gonna live this character moment by moment. So you are living in the world of, what am I reacting to? What am I thinking? What am I feeling? What am I doing? Who am I talking to? And what's that relationship? Which we do as actors anyway, but now it's moment by moment.   Anne: Now Randall. So then in terms of directing a talent, right? What is that like for you? Because you also probably don't get the script right away either, and so you're directing and so what's that process like?   Randall: Well, I usually get it a little bit sooner than the actors, but you're right. It's not like I've been sitting there with it for months or weeks or anything like that. So everybody has got a different philosophy. I guess I'll tell you mine, but I think most directors I talk to will probably tell you something very similar to this. I think this is true of other genres, but video games, it almost has to be true. You cannot go in with this voice in your head or character in your head. Like, this person is going to be like this. It has to be a collaborative process, because you haven't, as a director, haven't had time to absorb all the stuff. But even if you did, even those occasions where you do, writers write, and there has to be a translation, and that actor is coming in with sometimes, you know, you're looking at Dave says 500, sometimes you're looking at maybe 500 lines for that character. You're looking at thousands of lines of script, and we're not gonna put people together, ensemble. And there are a lot of reasons for that. I, you know, I know that's a sticking point for a lot of people, but there are a lot of reasons that's probably not gonna happen anytime soon.   Long and the short of it is I have to trust the actor. So the actor and I both have to be working together to come up with this character. They come in with an idea, I come in with an idea, the writer comes with an idea. At some level check your ego at the door. We're gonna work this out as we go. And that's a lovely process when it works well because once it starts clicking, everybody's discovering, and that's where you get this magical performance that you couldn't have scripted it like that. But that also really derives more than anything else from actors who are comfortable with this, who aren't thrown by change, who are able to invent as they go.   And I think so much of that invention is that understanding what Dave said, where are you? What happened before you got here? What are you reacting to? How do you feel the other person? These are acting principles, but I think they're also just mindset principles that you have to get into as you're observing humanity and everything else. And some people do that extraordinarily well.   Dave: You know, one of the things I find working with students is generally they don't realize how much time and effort they need to spend in discovering everything about this character and everything about a particular scene that they're gonna do. I like to tell people, well, look, we've got words on a page or screen and a microphone, and we have to stay on mic and we have to read the words. An actor on stage, an actor on set has memorized their script. They are in costume. They have another actor that they're bouncing energy off of. There is blocking, they're gonna move from this place to this place. They know what the action is that they're going to do and they can do it. Once again, we're reading words on a page in front of a microphone.   But we have to bring the same level of acting to those words that are on a page through that microphone. And the only way to do that is to put yourself in the place of that actor, say on set, on scene.what am I wearing? You know, what does it look like around me? Am I sitting, am I standing? Am I walking? This person I'm talking to, what's my relationship with this person? Where are they in relationship to me? Or where are they when there's more of them in relationship to me? What just happened, I mean, in the last couple of seconds, that I'm saying or doing what I'm doing, what I'm thinking, what I'm feeling? It's that type of preparation and using your imagination that brings you to believable performances.   Anne: So Dave, when you're creating your character, before you're going into record -- and that might evolve, right, as you do that -- what sort of steps are you taking to envelop that character in a believable way for the script that you have?   Dave: Well, just the things I was talking about, you wanna take in the whole script. Too many people I think wanna start, oh, what are my lines? Oh, is my line, my line. Bullshit. Bullshit. My line, my line.   Dave: And we wanna start with the big picture. If there is a description of what the game is, take that in. Video games are very much like movies. As a matter of fact, they're like 70-hour movies. And whatever genre you can think of, including romcom, for a movie, there is an analogous one in video game. So where does this game live? What kind of world does it live in? Then who is your character? And as much information as they give you, take that all in. Now I realize sometimes it's three paragraphs of information about your character and then five lines. You can't fit everything about that character into those lines. But you can find how this character would react in this situation. What is their worldview? Create that. One of the things I suggest to people from time to time is before you read the lines, read the character description, and then ad lib the character, talking about himself based on those descriptions. He was born here, his parents died, he was kidnapped, he was made a slave, he met a wizard. Tell your story, but without reading it; just off the cuff, improvise it based on the few things that are said there before you get into the script. And once you're in the script, you gotta pay attention to all the alternate lines besides your own and the stage direction. I'm amazed how often actors will -- they'll get their lines, but the alternate lines and stage directions they ignore. All of those are clues that you've, you've gotta take in.   Anne: Yeah. I say actually to my students that even for like something that may seem dry or boring like a corporate narration, the words are there for a reason. Somebody was paid to write those words, and every word has to have a meaning. And I think that there's so many people that just rush in to their studios, and like you were saying, just line by line, and they don't take in the whole story or try to imagine the story, that moment before. There's a moment before even I think in every piece of voiceover copy, there's a moment before. And I think if you can take the time, right, to develop that story, it will help. Let's talk a little bit about -- because I know you've got something happening, Dave, at Voiceover Atlanta, an efforts class, I think, or an X-session.   Dave: Yeah.   Anne: Let's talk about maybe not necessarily efforts, but body and how important your body is to be able to, I guess, express better acting.   Dave: Your body informs your voice. Once again, it doesn't start here. It starts with all of this. It starts with the look on your face. It starts with your honest reaction, your honest thinking, and those thoughts, those feelings will trigger a physicality that makes what you're saying come out in a certain way. Randall had mentioned something, we are translating the written word into the spoken word. They are not the same thing. I actually go so far as to tell myself, look, I'm not that into the words. They're not the most important thing. If you're crying or screaming, and there's a dialogue that's going on through it, and I can't quite understand what you're saying, for me, that's okay. Because what I really wanna understand is what this character's going through in this particular time. Now, if it's something very vital that has to be said, that leads to something else, yeah, we'll want to hear.   But voiceover 101, you wanna sound like you're smiling. What do you do? Put a smile on your face. You wanna sound like you're a little more important? Stand up just a little bit straighter and suddenly there it is. You wanna seem like you're a little bit more tired or something? Let your body relax, and there it is. How a character with a limp, or with a hunchback, or with a injury to their face, how they're gonna express themselves, or they're of a certain age and, and the voice has gotten tired from smoking and drinking alcohol -- these are what we're trying to find.   A lot of people will say, well, I'm putting on this voice, but why? There's nothing wrong with creating a voice, but why? How does this voice serve the character? What is it about this character that that voice is there? So your physicality, if you're somebody, maybe your head's off a little side from an old injury, or maybe you're that guy that's really tough and you're always got your chest out and ready for action. That's what changes your voice. Not something that you're putting on, but something that you allow to happen based on so many other things: your thought, your feeling, your action, your relationship and who you are, what your natural physicality or the natural physicality of that character is.   Randall: When you're talking about the body and you're talking about the voice -- I'll pull all three of these together, what I think at least is kind of simply -- you are acting in your emotions have nothing to do with your character voice. That voice that you put on is a filter. And where people get confused -- because historically this would happen. That voice that you're doing is somehow your character, and then that becomes caricature. That's not true. That voice is a filter. And when you talk about body parts, all the things that Dave just talked about, you could be the age you're at, and if you've got a hip injury, or you've got a limp, or you've got a lung issue, it's gonna sound a certain way.   So all you're doing after that with that voice is, it's a filter. If it's a guitar, it's, you're just turning the overdrive up a little bit on the distortion. But what you play is still gonna be what you play. It might make you play a little bit differently,'cause you got a little more sustain if we're gonna use the guitar thing. But ultimately you're gonna play what you play. And that's, I think the mental process it has to be. You are acting that emotion, you are acting that injury, you're acting that malady, you're acting that physical trait that you have. And then if it calls for it, change your voice placement, change your register, change your nasality, you know, all of that stuff.   Anne: Now Randall, you mentioned something earlier that I wanted to ask you, about when you're recording the characters, they're not typically done in ensemble format, right?   Randall: Right.   Anne: And typically the talent is recording from their studio or in a studio with you. Right?   Randall: Yeah.   Anne: Why is that? Why is there not -- because I would think if you're bouncing off other characters it might --   Randall: Yes, there would be. And sometimes you get that opportunity, but there are two reasons really. One, you have non-linear stories. In a movie and a TV and something of that nature, you have a beginning and an end. So it actually becomes very easy to say, well, we'll put these actors together -- we'll say a movie more than a tv. 'cause I think for TV set, you know, everybody shows up the same time. But we know we're gonna need you on these days 'cause you get at all your scenes that these people and they're gonna need you on these other days. When you have 50 characters that are all speaking. And when you have interactions with any and all of them, the time to actually do that, the logistic issue to do that is almost impossible. And that's one of your absolute biggest reasons right there. When it really comes down to logistics, if I'm going to have Dave come in and do 500 lines, do 1000 lines, and in those lines he's got soliloquy lines, he's got 20 that are interacting with this one person, you just can't really pull that together in the same way. And the other thing in a movie that's different than, than a video game is there's all this back end -- of course movies are more than just about filming, about having the actors there. But that is so much of a focus, where in the game there's all this other stuff you have to construct. You know, think about a movie. If you actually had to construct the world in which you live, now make it non-linear, now make it so that there're branching storylines, or that if you go this way this happens, it actually becomes logistically almost impossible to do.   Anne: That makes a lot of sense. Now, in terms of, let's say the flow of what you do as a director, once you cast something, is it mostly just when the actors available they record their lines? I mean there's gotta be so many things, I would think that the story's gotta be there, right? The game writers have to have the story written. and then you have to get all of the characters to record their lines. And then -- so tell me a little bit about that process.   Randall: Well, that's a big thing. I'll try to make it kind of short. So one of the things you really have to do is at some point you gotta lock the script down. And trust me, that can sometimes be an issue. But you just do, you have to lock the script down, and you have to get everything that you're going to get. Of course there has to be some when the actor's available, if I, if an actor not available for a week 'cause they're on set doing something else, of course you can't use 'emthen. But really that becomes the puzzle piece that comes on this end of scheduling everybody. Dave, I've got this time on Monday and Tuesday. I don't have anything till Thursday. Do any of those fit with you? Bam. You lock it down, you, you do that.   The other thing that is also different about games that -- I mean as budgets go up, maybe this will change, but at least for now, again, some of it is logistics and some of it is budget -- I cast Dave to do a role. By the way, when Dave shows up, sometimes he knows ahead of time, but a lot of times it's like, hey, there're probably gonna be a couple more, just letting you know. And he shows up and because you've got soldier numbers 1 through 10 and townsperson number 1 through 20, it's like, Dave, can you pick up a townsperson? Can you pick up a soldier? By the way, they can't sound like the character that you're actually in here to do. You know? So that's another thing that happens all the time.   Anne: Yeah. And I always like for talent to understand what happens like outside of their little bubble of just voicing something. And so that's why I think it's wonderful to have the two of you there, 'cause it can kind of see how you really have to work together in order to produce and do something successfully together. So it's good to know like what you have to do as a producer or director. And of course the talent has to really, I think, be able to perform pretty much on demand, is what I'm thinking. That's what it's sounding like to me.   Dave: Exactly pretty much on demand. . And it's interesting from my perspective, whether I'm in my home studio or I go into another studio, there will be a producer there, the writer might be there, the director might be there. And I, I think the director's job is, the director's the person who knows how to communicate with actors. The writer may be able to tell you, well this is what's going on and so forth. But they have a tendency to keep talking too much, and they're more invested than they need to be to get the performance you want, whereas the director is your guide. When you are at home doing your audition, you are your own director. You have to make choices. But when you arrive on your gig or the gig arrives at your house, and you're on camera there, now you have somebody to take some of that weight off. And maybe they've listened to your audition and said, well you know, you made a good acting here, but that was the wrong choice. What actually is happening is this, and our job as actors is to be able to create the thought, feeling, attitude, movement of a character, and if it's something different, it's up to us to just make it different.   Anne: I love that you said that cause there's so many people I know that seem to be afraid of making that decision whether it's right or wrong and committing to the acting, because they don't necessarily know what's happening and so therefore they just play it safe.   Dave: And beyond playing it safe, they don't really know. They haven't made a definite decision. And the person who is listening to that audition come in, it doesn't say anything to them. You're probably going to do better making wrong strong choices than no choices.   Randall: Absolutely. Or safe choices. Absolutely.   Anne: I love that. I love that. I got so excited that you said, 'cause I was just like totally connecting with that. Let's talk a little bit about talent that might wanna get into video game voiceover and maybe the demo, which I think is probably an important part of helping them maybe get their foot in the door. Let's talk about what's important in a game demo.   Dave: It's interesting. We were talking about this with each other just the other day. I always liken video game acting --I always tell my students, look, I want you to think of yourself as a character actor. When we think about character actors, and even movie stars who started as character actors, there's something about them, the way they speak, the rhythm of it, their look that we have a reaction to, an emotional reaction to. And every one of us has some of that. You may not feel like you are ABC to yourself, but people who encounter you, that's what they see. So we wanna find out who you are, and now we wanna display that character, that you, the truth of you in a variety of characters from a variety of times in a variety of places with a variety of points of view. So we might be in space, we might be medieval, we might be futuristic, we might be post-apocalyptic, we may be a doctor, a lawyer, a soldier, a wizard, a swordsman, a thief. We wanna bring all these characters with dissimilar energies, dissimilar worlds together to demonstrate all the things that you can do.   Randall: Yeah. Be authentic first. I mean, I like to listen to a demo. I have a 1 and a 1A. 1 is be authentic. That has to be it. I have to stop listening to you as an actor 'cause there's time for that after the demo's done. When I hear a snippet, whatever your 12 seconds or whatever the time is with that character, ideally, and I know you, you can't always do this, but ideally when that clip stops, you're like, no, wait, what happens? 'Cause you got invested in it, you know? And then the second thing is a certain amount of versatility. Now, I think unfortunately to most people, versatility they think means different voices. And it is true that that is part of it. There's no question that you have to be able to demonst --'cause if there're gonna be three characters in a game, I can't hear the same voice. So yes, you do have to be able to learn to change your register, to change your voice placement, to change accents, to do all this other kind of stuff.   But ultimately it really comes out of your attitude difference and your emotional difference. And being -- if you're hyped, if you are just in this manic place, your voice is just gonna sound different than if you are at the bottom of the well depressed, even being the same person. So find those things, not just the emotions of them, but what does your voice do when it does that? How are you delivering things in a different way when you find that? And that's where you get all this variance and you hear different people out of it. So that is definitely 1A. If you, if you're a one trick pony, if it's a good trick, you might get booked a lot, but you're just gonna up your game and up your bookings the more legitimate tricks you can show. I probably shouldn't use the word trick. The more legitimate shades of yourself that you can show, the more legitimate shades of what you do, the better it's gonna play for you.   Dave: And let me just say this, there are people who can do lots and lots of accents, lots and lots of different voices, and sometimes that can kind of hurt you on your demo. If you've done so many different things that they don't come away with a sense of who you are.   Randall: Right.   Dave: You might not remember the name of so-and-so who did all these voices. None of them were the same. They may have all been really good, but you don't remember who this person is.   Randall: Right.   Dave: So I always say, look, start with who you are and keep coming back to who you are. You may have some in different accents and different voices, but start with you and keep coming back to you.   Randall: Yep. I agree.   Anne: So is there a time period -- I know that I work with so many students that are new, and they always wanna know, well, how long will I have to study? Or how long will I have to do this before I can create a demo? If you had to give your experience, how long would it take for someone to -- I don't even wanna think that it's all about the demo because really it's about the acting. Right? And it's about who you are as a voice actor. How long should a student expect to study acting in video game VO? Is it the same for everybody? Is there a length of time that you think, oh, after five years, this will be great? Or after one year, what do you guys think?   Randall: Absolutely depends on the person. I think mentally, if you're talking to people who are getting into the business or are wanting to get into, even just, I've been doing commercial, I wanna do video games. Even if it's that, so somebody who has been working. I think if you mentally think two years of hard work, that's a good baseline. Now there are gonna be people who have all the tools that they need, and in six months they're just rocking and rolling. There are gonna be people that after two years, they're just now starting to figure it out. And it's gonna take 'em five. How do you know? But I think you need to be mentally prepared. Kinda like if you start a business up, I think this is gonna take me a $100,000 in a year. Double it or triple it and then you're probably safe. I think it's the same thing.   Dave: And in so many ways, I think people getting into voiceover and not just for video games or animation, but for the various genre, each of the genres calls for something a little different. There are some rules of the road for all of them. I just think when you get to video games especially, from the smallest whisper to the loudest shout, from characters who very much might be like the disc jockey you used to be, or to the used car salesman that maybe you remember -- you're gonna see all those kinds of characters. If you come with some characters, with some idea of playing like you were when you were a kid, when you were playing cops or robbers or spaceman and aliens -- whatever it was, you weren't judging yourself. You were having a good time. And you put yourself completely into it.   One of the big things I see with a lot of grown up people who now suddenly wanna do this, or maybe they've wanted to do it for a long time, but there's a timidity. Oh, I'm a little, I'm a little scared. I don't wanna, I don't wanna, I don't want anybody to think this is silly or -- you gotta give yourself to it and that holds people back. Your ability to read can hold you back. Because especially in video games and voiceover in general, we are reading in the moment. We've gotta take the words off the page and connect them to somebody. So I have run into people who've come to me, not often, but a couple people, I've said, look, you don't need me. You've got this. Get your demo done, you can do it with me or somebody else. But you're ready. There's some other people I've worked with for a long time, and I see improvement, but it's slow. But if that's where you really want to go, and you are getting better and getting better, stay on the road.   Randall: Yeah.   Anne: Yeah. It's a journey. It's a journey. So you guys have an exciting event coming up at the end of April I saw for Game VO. Tell us a little bit about that.   Randall: Well, this really came out of an outgrowth of Dave and I; we talk a lot. We've known each other for a long time. And one of the things that we have not seen along the way is what I would call a throughput. There's nothing wrong with this. In fact, there's some wonderful things to do this, but you go to most conferences or retreats or whatever you want to call them, and there's not a real throughput. You get the promo person, you got the commercial person. And there's, there's some real value to that, you know, especially if you're working in multiple genres. But what we don't see anybody doing is, okay, we're gonna strip this down to the basics and take you through -- you know, you don't get to cherry pick. We're gonna take you through this whole thing. Okay. You went to drama school and you're like, and you wanna roll your eyes? I don't know about going back to drama school.   I had a student, I shouldn't even call him a student, an extremely well known voice actor who took one of my recent two-day workshops. And when I saw his name on there, I was like, really? Well, that's interesting. I wonder why he's doing this. And you know, the thing that was really interesting is there was a technique that really truly went back to original acting. And this is a guy who's a drama school, totally trained, accredited, all this other kind of stuff. He's done so much other stuff that he literally had -- now it was easy to getting back in there, but he had forgotten to some degree like, no, you have to start here. He's got all these voices that he can do. He's a wonderful actor. You know, if you had mentioned your name, maybe he'd be like, really? Well that's the point. Somebody like that even didn't have that beginning. So all this throughput we have not seen. And so the idea that we wanna do is take people all the way through what it takes to really truly be a video game voice actor, from let's start with basics of acting all the way up to we're gonna do sessions, and you can't skip the steps along the way. You've gotta do this to this, to this, to this.   Dave: I have to echo the same thing, that I've worked with students who have been on camera, on stage. And for them, the world of voice acting is completely different. And because they're used to memorization, and being in costume, and having another actor that they're working with, they are lost all too often when it's words on a page and a microphone. And sometimes it's just coming from this genre to that genre. If you're doing promos, TV promos, you can have a style. If you're a narrator, you can have a style. If you're doing commercials, you can have a style and work and do very well. With video games, style isn't gonna carry you but so far. You have to be an actor.   Randall: It's a bigger thing. You know, it's, it's actually a bigger thing. You can't have a style.   Dave: Style can be this big, but if you're gonna be an actor --   Randall: No, that's true. It's a range. It's not just a style, it's a range.   Dave: Yeah. And learning how to connect to that, to your range.   Anne: And now, so when is this event and how long is this event?   Dave: Well, it's called Game VO Mexico 2023. It is happening in Akamal, Mexico. That's on the Yucatan Peninsula. And it's the 27th through the 30th of April.   Anne: Okay. Three days.   Randall: Three days.   Dave: Three days.   Anne: All right. Three days of intensive classes, sessions?   Dave: Intensive classes, sessions, and it's gonna be fun. And in one of the most beautiful places in the world. We were doing some location scouting a couple of months ago. I was down there with Randall, and we went to a restaurant, and that night they said, oh, come back and watch the sea turtles make their little baby walk to the sea. It's those kinds of --there's iguanas around and toucans. You'll hear the monkeys in the tree. I mean, it's, it's an amazing place and it's very much outside of your norm. I don't know about you, but have you ever been someplace, you got outside of your house, outside of your city, a different place, and suddenly you could think differently?   Anne: Oh yeah. It'll change your life.   Dave: This is gonna be one of those places, one of those events that you'll be able to shed some things that have been holding you back and embrace some things that are gonna carry you forward.   Anne: I love it. So end of April, where can people find out more information and sign up for this?   Randall: Well, it's the website. It's gamevomexico.com. So just like it sounds.   Dave: Gamevomexico.com.   Anne: All right. Awesome. And for the BOSSes out there, you guys are going to give us a special coupon?   Randall: That is correct.   Anne: Just for the BOSSes. So if you guys want to, you are definitely getting a discount.   Randall: It's a $500 discount. So it's, it's basically 10%. It's a sizable discount.   Anne: That's awesome. Woo. So a $500 discount, you guys can go to that website and enter a coupon code, VO BOSS, to get that discount. That's amazing. So gamevomexico.com. Coupon code VO BOSS to get that discount. And how can BOSSes get in touch with either one of you? Let's say Dave, if they wanna get training?   Dave: Oh, I'm so easy to find, they can email me at [email protected]. They can go to my website, davefennoy.com and get in touch with me, and they can check me out every Wednesday at 6:00 PM Pacific for Ask Dave Fennoy anything. I promise I will talk about this.   Randall: This is true.   Anne: Yay. And Randall, what about you? How can people get in touch with you?   Randall: The two easiest places, and I say easy because I've got the long email addresses. My company, what I do the direction through, is Hamster Ball Studios. So it's Randall, [email protected]. But on the other side, the stuff that I do as far as teaching and coaching and consulting, I probably shouldn't say coaching 'cause I don't, you know, Dave's the one on one guy. I'm more big macro, big picture, hey, wow, dude. But it's [email protected].   Anne: Awesome. Thank you, guys, so very much. This was so informative, so wonderful, and we so appreciate that discount. BOSSes, check that out. Gamevomexico.com. Use that code of VO BOSS, get yourself a discount. BOSSes, I want to ask you a question. Do you have a local nonprofit that is close to your heart? Did you ever wish that you could do more to help them? Well, you certainly can. And visit 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how. Big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes like us three today. Thank you, guys ,so much again, find out more at ipdtl.com. Everyone, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.   Randall: Take care, Anne.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Your vocal brand is the key to getting noticed in this world of noise. It’s much more than just the sound of your voice. It's who you are, what you believe in and what matters to you. Anne & Lau discuss what goes into a vocal brand & what you can do to develop yours. Vocal branding is all about uncovering your uniqueness in order to let it shine through in every project you take on. Take time to get to know yourself. What matters to you? Why are you a voice actor? A voice is like a fingerprint: no two are exactly alike. Once you've figured out what makes your vocal brand stand out, it's time to learn how to harness it. The key here is authenticity. And it's not just what you say—it's how you say it. Figuring out how to combine all these elements into one cohesive brand can seem overwhelming, but don’t worry! Anne & Lau are here to show you how it’s done.    Transcript    It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza. Welcome to the VO BOSS superpower series with the one and only Lau Lapides. Yay.   Lau: Yay. Hey Anne.   Anne: Hey, Lau.   Lau: Love being back as always. Love it.   Anne: Superpowers, superpowers. I love that we named our series Superpowers.   Lau: Because we have so many of them.   Anne: Yes.   Lau: Like we can't even uncover, identify all of them.   Anne: Business superpowers. And I think that our superpowers, it's in all aspects of our business, right? So including our superpowers to be able to stand out from the crowd. And to be unique. All businesses have competition. And I know that people talk about VO -- VO is so cool because there's competition like technically speaking, but not really, because every single one of us has such a unique product. And I think it's important that we know how to bring out that unique product and not just know how to bring that out. Also, to be able to market that. And that goes right into our brand. And so a lot of what I do with students is I will tell them that I am going to not only brand them in terms of what genre should I be in, but vocally brand them, right? And that really is something that's not just a visual brand on a website, but something that it is absolutely related to their product. Right? A vocal branding.   Lau: Absolutely.   Anne: So what does vocal branding mean to you, Lau?   Lau: Oh gosh. It's such a big umbrella. It really is. I mean, the first thing that comes to my mind, Anne, is just having the knowledge of knowing as a coach, that no one in the world has the voice you have. Everyone has a unique sound, distinctively unique sound. Okay? They may have similar qualities, but they're distinctively unique. So number one, uncovering that uniqueness in your voice through specific qualities that you could maybe even poll, like pull your group, poll your team, poll your family and say, give me qualities that describe my voice. Because when I'm gonna look at specs of a breakdown for an audition, the client's gonna break it down for you. they're gonna give you vocal qualities. So that's one of the big ones I feel that really distinguishes your vocal branding from someone else's and says, oh, I know that. That's Deb. That's Susan.   Anne: Oh, I know that voice.   Lau: Yeah, I know that voice.   Anne: And you know what's so interesting to me is I find that there's a lot of people who come to me who will try to perform and sound like they think everybody wants them to sound like, and not enough about sounding like themselves. Because I truly believe, and I say this all the time, I truly believe that we are human. We wanna connect. We want to understand who you are. And that comes through, that shines through in your voice, that very unique voice. So unless you're doing a soundalike for someone, or even a character where you're trying to sound a particular way, I think that your vocal brand needs to be brought right up there, front and center, because I think that's what truly makes you unique. And it brings the acting out.   So it's not about the sound, right? It's about how do I bring the acting out? And that becomes a vocal brand for you because the personality is intermixed. I think personality has a lot to do with creating a unique vocal sound. Right? Your personality, your, your heart, your essence. I don't know, Lau, you always have great words for this. What would you say your ethos, I dunno, the ethos of your vocal branding?   Lau: The ethos of your vocal branding.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: It's like the height. Like what is the apex of what someone is thinking about when they think about you? It's like they think about you with this word, with this adjective, with this action verb. Your name comes up. That's like, to me, that's the zenith of it all, is like, when they think of this, Anne Ganguzza comes up. When they think of that, this one comes up. And that to me is amazing. And in no way should that feel limiting to people. Like, oh, does that mean that's all I can do? Or that's all they think of me as. Well, they think of you as, as a product, as an incredible product that has this vocal branding. And that's the first and foremost that you want them to think about. You don't want them to be confused. You never want your audience to be confused. You always want them to think of you for doing the best thing. And with your vocal quality as a vocal talent, they wanna know you as something, whatever that something is.   Anne: And then whatever that something is, learn how to define that also in words because that words can translate to words on a page or words in an email that you are submitting with a demo to an agent, something that sets you apart. And it can also be different unique aspects of your voice. Like let's say an accent, right? A tone, if you have that really beautiful bass, baritone or that bright mom sound or whatever that might be. Bilingual, right? Can you sing? Like, those are all vocal qualities that can really help distinguish you from the competition. And so know what those vocal qualities are and be ready to be able to explain them to a potential client. Also showcase them. I think it's so important that these vocal brandings are basically shown or in a demo, right? So that people can hear that vocal quality. And if you have a good producer, they're going to know that and they're gonna know how to bring those vocal qualities out.   Lau: And you know, it's having a visual now of like a performer, a theater actor, a professional speaker who's in front of a crowd live, they're in front of a crowd. What's the first and foremost thing we see visually is their visual branding. So that might be a costume or wardrobe or particular visuals that we're getting on camera or on a stage. Right? Well, that's a big part of the kinds of roles they play, but that's not everything. We have to know what's underneath it. We have to know what's the internal process that they're using to bring out their personality, their persona, their humanity, the thing that we connect to. But that covering, so to speak, that like coming in and saying, I can sound like this. I can put this on, is great to have, it's just not the whole job. It's not the whole thing. You have to be able to do the internal work to really have the authentic connections to the process and then put the wardrobe on it, and then put the schmaltz as we say on it, the frosting on it. Right? But you have to have the cake first. You can't just have the frosting, even though we'd like to, you gotta build a cake first.   Anne: I'm always astounded when I work with different voices. Now, there are some voices who tonally, right, will have varying degrees of range tonally. But sometimes I think when students are just beginning, they think that that's what range is all about. And I beg to differ because range is not just a tone or I have a high pitch, I have a low pitch. I think really range for an artist an artist really comprises the tone mixed with the personality, mixed with the performance, mixed with the acting.   And so whenever people say, I want range in my demo, right, I will actually focus more on the acting first, rather than, oh, can you pitch your voice up? Can you pitch your voice down? It's so hard for people to do that because then they get so consumed with, I'm going to sound very low, or maybe I'm just gonna sound very high and I'll just do this for the rest of the copy. And so Lau, I know you've had lots of experience working with students do that.   Lau: Oh, oh my goodness, ton. And it's that what I call the over management, the maneuvering, every M word you can think of, the manipulation of sound, which of course, technically if you're a singer, if you're a rapper, if you're a speaker, if you're a vocalist of any kind, we do have to learn mechanics. We have to have a vocabulary that we can rely upon that helps with repeatability so that we can repeat deliveries for sure. But that still does not do that internalized work of understanding the language, the syntax, the cadence, the rhythm, all of that, which I believe is --   Anne: The story.   Lau: Yes. The story.   Anne: The story.   Lau: And whether you are religious or not, religious is irrelevant. There's a spirituality, there's something that we can't quite put our finger on that is larger than us. It's bigger than us that we can connect to, which creates a universal internal connection to your audience that they can't put their finger on either. It's just, it's real, it's authentic. Our friend Jim from Lotas talks about that all the time, authenticity. What is authenticity? What is that honest connectedness that we have? I'd like to think it's partly psychological, but it's also partly from the heart and the soul and the gut.   Anne: Oh yeah. Absolutely.   Lau: Right?   Anne: And that's where people, if they're nervous about synthetic voices, this is where we've got them .   Lau: Yeah. Yeah.   Anne: If you can really stand true to your authenticity and bring that out in your acting and in your voice, then that is what is going to surpass any synthetic voice out there. And know that your connection and your vocal brand has very much a place in voiceover now and for the future, absolutely. And I say this after, gosh, close to 40 episodes, talking to people in synthetic voices, knowing that there is a place for that. But there's very much a place for our unique vocal brand and our unique, authentic brand, authentic voice.   Lau: Absolutely.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: And it's hard, if not impossible, to decipher exactly what it is. It's like when we see a brilliant performance, we hear a brilliant dissertation, we hear something rhetorical that moves us -- it's hard to completely put into words why we are moved to a call to action. Why we are changed, why we are cathartically shifted in a way. It's that beautiful recipe and combination of the visuals, the vocals, the internals, the connectedness to the audience that create that concoction that is so unique, that becomes persona. I mean, that's persona personified , as they say. It's, it's, that's your brand. Like your brand is how do I move you? How do I shift you?   Anne: Yeah. And I think it's one of the hardest things for people first entering into the industry to really accept and recognize. I know, I can't tell you the amount of people who don't really like the sound of their voice. They're true voice--   Lau: But yet they wanna make a living at it .   Anne: And they wanna make a living at it. And yet they're in voiceover and they wanna pursue voiceover because they think what everybody wants to buy is this performed sound that they have heard. I think we're such a product of our experience in listening for years. Right? When voiceover first came onto the scene, it was very much an announcer style. It was very much a, a unique style. And so hearing that, depending on your age, really, this does depend on your age. Kim Herdon actually in one of my workshops mentioned it too. And I thought, yeah, when you are being directed, a lot of times it is a factor how old the person is that is directing you. Because what they hear in their ears as a conversational or authentic read might differ from let's say, somebody that is a millennial that might be directing you.   And so I think no matter who's directing you, if you can bring forth the authenticity and your own unique style, I think that that is the place to absolutely start. And if you can bring that out, I feel like that's, you're at the height of your acting. It's kind of like, how many times have we watched a B movie? And it's so obvious, right, that the actors are maybe not as sincere or maybe they're not connecting with the audience. And so for those of you that are trying to figure out what your sound is, stop because it's not a sound. It's not a sound.   Lau: No, no, it's not. It's the land, what I call the land like how it lands on someone. How is it received? How is it thought of that's the most important? And the second is like great acting like Meisner exercises, like the second I'm thinking about myself -- which is natural. A lot of us will lose focus at times, think about ourself. But that's a really good gauge for us as business owners, as BOSSes, as delivery folks doing vocal delivery. The second I'm thinking about myself is the second I've lost contact with the other, the other.   Anne: Absolutely.   Lau: Whoever that is. It just be an admin. It could be an executive assistant, it could be whatever. But if I lose that level of focus, not only did I lose the information of what they're giving to me, but I also lost the authentic response of how what I'm saying and doing is landing on them.   Anne: Yeah, absolutely.   Lau: And then I don't have authentic queuing anymore. I lost my queuing ability. Anne: Yeah. And I think even when we're talking about niches -- again, I always talk about people starting out here and you're trying to figure out where you belong in the industry. Like, where do I fit? I think no matter what niche you're pursuing, commercial, corporate, explainer, promo, there is absolutely in every niche, there is a unique you in that. Even if, let's say promos, right? And they sound announcery. right? And oh, great, I get to be an announcer. Sure. But you've still got a whole lot of personality that's put into that announcer, and you're bringing a whole lot of you to that. Like, I'm just, makes me think of Joe Cipriano, like I could pick out his voice in a second because he brings his personality to it. It really is something that you have to be comfortable with. And I think that's a journey for a lot of students to become self-accepting and to allow -- and vulnerability, right -- that to come out in a performance.   Lau: Absolutely. And I think you have to be okay, okay, sometimes more than okay with whatever you're saying and doing, when it does land, and it's being accepted and it's being rewarded, being okay with that being enough. In other words, if I get into that mindset, yeah. But I, they haven't seen me do this and I don't love that as much as I love this da da -- take that out of the situation and say, look, they're seeing one potential within me of value. And they're loving that and they're valuing that. Let that be okay. Let that be enough. Go other places to show other sides of your voice and other sides of what you can do. But if that's okay, if that's what a big part of your branding is, because sometimes it's enough; people don't wanna know you as everything.   They don't want -- I'm sure we've all had that experience where we see a movie star that we know and love, and we are tracking them, and all of a sudden they're doing a role that they love. That's challenging to them. but we don't wanna see 'em in that role. It's like, it's almost uncomfortable to see them in that role because we don't know them as that. It doesn't seem authentic to us. It seems pushed or it seems weird to us. Does that mean they're not capable of doing the role? ? No, of course not. It just means we've compartmentalized in our brain their branding to us.   Anne: Sure, sure.   Lau: And that means something to us. I think that branding, for some weird reason can have a negative connotation like it's simplistic or superficial when it's not. It has a real lifestyle meaning to people of how they place you Sure. And compartmentalize you within their life, in their lifestyle.   Anne: I wanted to kind of tap into what you're talking about in terms of is there just one brand? Do you just have one brand and maybe not, maybe you can have mult -- I mean, I have multiple brands actually. And so each one of those brands though has a piece of me, has a piece of authentic me in that. And again, I think that that's one of the most important things that we want to emphasize here. And that vocal brand should be something that people can remember you by and then easily come back.   And that's the whole thing, right? Because we're talking about the physical properties of your voice and the physicalities of how we sound and what we can offer as a unique value proposition to our potential clients. Now, how are we going to market that? In my corporate narration world, I have a particular demo that really has my sound, my unique value pro -- I call it my unique value proposition for corporate. And I may sound different when I am doing e-learning, and in reality I am because I'm a different person, right? I am teaching when I'm an e-learning versus corporate, I'm selling, or even commercial, I'm a little bit selling. I'm trying to convince people. So because the context is different, you get a different part of me. And that part of me is still very much me, but it is also a different brand. So I think that for each of your vocal brands, you need to have demonstrations, demos that really showcase yourself in those particular niche  markets.   Lau: Right. You have to have that. That's a necessity. And from my experience, Anne, in my business, people come in, potential clients come in, prospects for a particular specific branding. Once they work with you in that, they start trusting you that yeah, you do that, you do it well. They're getting their value, they're getting what they need. They will open up to cross branding, which I call cross pollination, which means --   Anne: I love that, cross branding.   Lau: I offer, you offer three, four, five, six different services, whatever.   Anne: Hey, could you do this?   Lau: Yes. But they're not unrelated. Like, I'm not gonna clean your curtains, and I'm not gonna babysit your kids. Right? So they're not unrelated, they're all within this sphere. But they're much more open, and rightly so as I would be too, moving into those services once they are educated to understand what they need and what they want, versus coming in off the street for those services because they already came in for a particular brand.   Anne: Sure. And once they do that, I think it's important that you remain consistent in that brand.   Lau: Yes.   Anne: I think branding is just all about consistency, right? I mean, we've spoken about branding before. I mean, obviously look, I've got my headphones, I've got my glasses, I've got the whole red thing for VO BOSS. Visually there's a brand, but also there is that vocal consistency that comes to the show that you and I, we're giving of ourselves. We have our authentic selves. And that is a very important part of the VO BOSS brand. People don't listen to the podcast to look at my headphones. It's about my delivery, our conversation, our heart, our authenticity between the two of us. And that is, again, something that works in conjunction with marketing, maybe a visual. Right? And that has to be consistent for people, to make it memorable for people.   Lau: Yes. I would say it has to be consistent, but not necessarily constant.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: Like we oftentimes think, oh, I have to be online all the time. I have to be posting on social all the time. I have to -- well, to some degree, yes. But do you need to be constantly doing that? Probably not. But you do have to be consistent in what you're doing so that it's gonna cause the attention that you want. Anne: I'm glad that you said that, because there's absolutely a thing of being too much into, right?   Lau: Yeah.   Anne: I actually, myself, even when we're talking about marketing and advertising, and I offer workshops, obviously the VO BOSS podcast -- how much am I going to be marketing that brand? And so you don't want it to be so much --   Lau: You're overdoing it.   Anne: -- that it becomes an annoyance.   Lau: Right.   Anne: But what's so interesting is -- I listen to Gary Vaynerchuk. I don't know if you do, but Gary is everywhere on social media. And his philosophy is that not everybody's on social media all the time. So therefore, the fact that he pushes it out so consistently and so constantly and everywhere means that at any given moment, somebody's going to be able to know his brand and understand who he is. I think you just need to be consistent in that, but not pushing on any one particular. Right? I think that can be something that's tiresome. It's like performance. Right? Anything that repeats really becomes like white noise and people will not pay attention to it anymore.   Lau: Yeah. Yeah.   Anne: So whatever it is that you are giving vocally in your brand or marketing in your brand, give it authentically, and make sure it's not the same thing every single time. Because then it will become an annoyance.   Lau: Yes. And I would say too, like check your ego at the door. Check it at the door. Because none of us are so big and brash and bold that we can't be learning every moment how to make our branding better, make our value better. Here's a quick example. I do my news blast that I send out, and I'm listening to my people. Am I doing it too much? Am I doing it not enough? Da da da da. I just had someone email me, someone who I've known for a while, and he said, listen, Lau, if you don't mind my saying, he emailed me -- if you don't mind saying there's too much animation in this, things are moving, I'm nauseous. I can't read what you wrote.   Anne: I'm nauseous from your email.   Lau: Right? Like, welcome to the inside of my head. I'm thinking, you know what I'm saying? That's like the inside of my head. And I had to stop and I had to say, right, right. I didn't catch it. I didn't think about it. Da da. By Monday I'm gonna fix it. So that doesn't mean that you're always gonna agree with everything that everyone says. You're not. But if you see it's sound advice, no pun intended, sound advice, you see, it makes sense. And you see it's making someone's world harder to get to know you and get the value --   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: Take out the firewalls.   Anne: Take out the homework. I always say, don't give --   Lau: Get rid of it.   Anne: -- people homework. Yeah.   Lau: Yeah. Don't be egotistical and say, well why? How could he say that to me? He doesn't like my pet -- I don't care about that. I care about him getting value from what I'm sending out.   Anne: Absolutely.   Lau: And if he cared enough to say that to me, I'm gonna care enough to take it under consideration.   Anne: Sure. Absolutely.   Lau: And in this case, case taking action on it.   Anne: Absolutely. I think that that's so important. And I also think it's important to not just be consistent, but also keep the market trends in your back pocket. Research them, understand what they are, and update accordingly. Really vocal trends change over the years, in a grand scheme sort of way. It's gone from announcery to authentic and conversational, mostly. And a lot of that, by the way, is driven by advertising. Right? What sells, right? Again, we don't like being told we're smart consumers. We don't like being told what to do. We like to be able to make our own decisions, and we often ask our peers.   And so that I think is the biggest reason why advertising and the vocal trends changed to a more natural talking like your friend, like, hey, I'd use this product because we don't wanna be told by some loudmouth announcer that we need to buy this product. I mean, we're offended by that. And again, it becomes how can you and this vocal brand service your potential client or your client? It's not about what you sound like. It's not about distributing the vocal noise out there. It's about distributing something that can connect with a listener and move them, inspire them, motivate them.   Lau: Inspire them.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: Yes. And I would even add in technical, technique-wise over time, add a little hook for yourself in there. Something you may not always do, but you find you're doing consistently that works -- it might be a little glitch in the voice, it might be be a moment of pre-life. it might be a pick up swing on something you do.   Anne: Sure.   Lau: Add something that's yours, that's part of your signature, whatever that is. And just do it consistently. If it works, if it annoys people, they'll let you know. If it doesn't work over time, you'll know.   Anne: Right.   Lau: But do something that's unique to you, authentic to your persona, authentic to your process. And that's something that people will start thinking of you for as well. So many people don't even think, Anne, when they're doing an audition, they want it to be so clean that they don't even think a little, -- is good. Just like a little exclamation, a little moment of vocalization. You know what I mean? Anne: It's too perfect. It's too voice talent. It's too voice actors, too perfect. Yeah.   Lau: It's too edity.   Anne: I can't tell you the amount of times I would have a student, a lot of times this will happen with a male student who has a beautiful, like lower baritone, and at the end of their sentences they'll land it. And I'm like, you need to only give me that gift once in a while, and when I don't expect it. Because if you give me that gift every single word or every single sentence, it's gonna not be a gift anymore. And so you need to give that to me in an unexpected way that's going to capture my attention and not become the same repetitive. That's really what happens when people try to sound or mimic or imitate, unless of course you're doing an impression. But that's a different thing too. Like a lot of times people will be confused when I say that, but when you're a character, I find sometimes when people like character and they're character actors, they are able to bring authenticity to their characters more than they can bring to their own voice.   Lau: Yeah. No doubt about that. And sometimes their alter ego, if they consider it an alter ego, they're doing it all the time. They do it like a tic, it's great, they love it, whatever. Sometimes it can have more authentic appeal than their daily sound can, because their heart and soul is in it. They're so connected to the success of it.   Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And that's the thing, their heart and soul is connected to it. And so I'm always trying to convince people that like, you may not be a cartoon or a very dynamically changing character, but for everything that you do in voiceover, you are. You are a character. It's a version of you. It's an excited you, it's a passionate you, it's a somewhat confused you or whatever is called for in the copy. Right? It becomes that -- or I always say, you own the company. Right? If you're trying to talk about your product and sell for a company, then you own that company. So you're always a character.   Lau: It's like the argument we have in the acting world for actors who are not vocal actors, they're actors who are, you know, on camera or stage actors. They're saying, am I becoming someone else? Or am I opening the door within myself to other experiences that connect to my real history? Now I'd like to think it's the latter because I think that most people who are in this field, who are successful, can bring that connection, whether they do it through a sense memory, whether they do it through an extreme empathy exercises, they don't have to have experienced it. They have to connect to the experience. And that's a totally different thing. And ironically, a lot of folks who go through the actual experience can't emotionally connect the way you can as a vocal actor.   Anne: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.   Lau: Right? But you have to have that conduit, whatever that conduit is, to the authentic connection, you have to have it and find it.   Anne: That is what I think so many people, they just, they're coming in to do their auditions, they run into their studio and they're good readers, right? And they read it and then they apply a melody to it that makes it sound like they're in a scene, but they're not really in a scene or acting, reacting, that kind of thing. And so I think for every piece of copy, you've gotta be so in the scene that you're not even thinking about what you sound like.   Lau: Yeah. And then it becomes mono patterned.   Anne: Exactly.   Lau: And we're thinking, why am I feeling sing songy? Why am I feeling in the pattern of this?   Anne: Exactly. Exactly.   Lau: Yeah. Right.   Anne: So vocal branding, it is absolutely a thing. It is absolutely something that I think all BOSSes out there, you need to know. Understand your vocal brand, understand who you are within that vocal brand, and then be able to market that vocal brand. So make sure that it's defined, and it can evolve, by the way. It doesn't have to always be one way. You can evolve that, evolve multiple brands. Make sure that you are able to bring that front and center proudly. And that will help to, I think, get you those gigs. Good discussion.   Lau: And dirty it up. Like, don't be so perfect.   Anne: Don't be perfect.   Lau: You don't need to be so polished and perfect. Because emulating real life is like we do make mistakes, and we do have rough starts. And sometimes that will get you a job. Love it. Great discussion.   Anne: Ah, yeah.   Lau: So good.   Anne: All right. So BOSSes, it may seem difficult to make a huge impact, but as a group, we can contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never thought possible. You can find out more. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how. And also great, big shout-out to my sponsor, ipDTL. You too, connect and be BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. Have an amazing week, guys. We'll see you next week.   Lau: Bye.   Anne: Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

The advertising landscape is changing. People want to connect with real people, not just faceless brands. Anne & Lau share their tips for putting yourself out there visually. What matters is that you are enhancing your natural essence, not turning into some inauthentic version of you. Share yourself on social media & your website. When clients see who you are, they feel like they really know you. It also makes them more likely to remember you and recommend you to others. If all else fails, present yourself in any way that makes you feel comfortable & shows those around you that you care about what you're doing.   Transcript   It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS Podcast and the Business superpower series. I'm here, Anne Ganguzza, with my bestie, favorite special guest, co-host Lau Lapides. Hey Lau.   Lau: Hey, Anne.   Anne: You know, Lau, since I started with you, I made that decision to have all of our podcasts also be on video. And I have to do my hair, I gotta do my makeup . And I found myself increasingly out there on camera and in front of people. And remember back in the day, when you made that decision -- or maybe you didn't, but I did. It was always like, well, I don't wanna have to be in front of a camera. I just wanna be an actor behind a mic and nobody needs to see my face. Well, I think that's changed.   Lau: Mm-Hmm.   Anne: And I think it would be a good thing to talk about is it necessary for us to have a visual image as well as our voice?   Lau: And I remember actually, like it was yesterday, I remember the day where it was fairly detrimental to be seen because you would be pigeonholed. You'd be stereotyped. Like let's say I, I'm able to do a 10-year-old boy's voice for animation. Then all of a sudden you see me, and I look completely different than that. And now it's stuck in a producer's mind. That was the mindset back then of like, keep yourself hidden enough so that you're branding could go all over the map. And now it's like completely changed in so many ways.   Anne: Has it? See, 'cause that's the question I get these days, especially from character actors, or let's say actors that don't look like they sound. And so they're concerned about being pigeonholed if they show their face. But I am like, these days, especially with video being right up in the forefront right up and everybody's faces, it's so popular. And especially after coming out of the pandemic where people weren't in contact anymore, I do believe that people wanna connect with people. It's a human need to connect with people, to connect with faces. And I, for one, I cannot stand it when I cannot, let's say, call up a business to ask a question to get a real person on the phone. And I know this is weird. Where are my millennials? I'm sorry. My millennials are like, but I can text.   Anne: But even so, I like to call to make sure I can hear a voice on the other end. Or I like to meet on Zoom, a lot of times with new clients, kind of I validate them to make sure they're human. For me, it's a thing. I need to connect with humans. And I am always telling my business students that people wanna connect with a person and not necessarily a logo.   Lau: Yes. Yes. And here's pure irony. You and I come from a generation where we need to do that. Like I, I remember the days where when I needed to get a phone number, I'd call something called Information. Information was 411. And then I'd hear someone, usually the same woman, and she'd be like, hello, Information, how may I help you? And I loved talking to people. I still, I don't trust online booking for hotels. I don't trust online booking for air fare. I, I still have that in me to wanna talk to people, wanna make that connection, wanna have that trust. But here's the irony. In voiceover of those days, that's where we had a lot of announcer reads. That's where we had a lot of caricature style reads, especially in the commercial market. Today, today, no one wants to talk to each other. You'll always get a machine, you'll always be online filling out those fields online, right? You'll never be able to get customer service. But stylistically we want naturalism. We want to have naturalism.   Anne: We want authenticity. Mm-hmm. Authenticity, that's the biggest trend. Isn't that funny? And especially from the younger generation, right? They want that authenticity. So I believe that a visual image, an in-person or an on-camera or a, that kind of a thing really helps to bring the authenticity to the business.   Lau: It does. Like I wanna see you. I wanna see that you're a real person. You're not a bot, you're not an avatar. You're not a cartoon drawing. That's okay. Like I love seeing those, but that doesn't take the place of the person. I still wanna see the person. If I'm gonna work with you, hire you, cast you, whatever, I still wanna see that you're a person and get a sense of that.   Anne: And you know what's so interesting? It's gotten to the point where I am putting myself out there so much visually that I have a brand ,and you know what my brand consists of? Headphones, that might be red or blue or purple. Or I just got a really beautiful pair of navy blue, and I got a pair of blue glasses, . And I just ordered, do you know what I just ordered? A pair of red glasses. And I also ordered a wind sock that is red . Uh, so maybe when I'm gonna be in the BOSS booth recording an episode, I might have a red headphone with red lipstick with red glasses, with a red -- but it becomes a visual part of my brand and it becomes something that people recognize for me. And it becomes consistent. I believe that consistency brands recognition and brands, something being more memorable. And I think that in addition to your voice being memorable, connecting that with a human, authentic being on the other side and also adding some visual branding can really help to make you a memorable brand.   Lau: Yes. And anyone who has been an actor either on tv, done film, done theater, knows the power of wardrobe, the power of makeup, the power of a mask. You know, we'll call it a mask right now because it could be be for men as well, or whatever you identify as. You have something that you may utilize to initiate your branding visually, whatever that is. It could be a hat, it could be, as you said, glasses, lipstick, it could be even a pen that you use, even a prop that you use. You know what I mean?   Anne: Nails.   Lau: Yeah. Nails. Right. So that it sort of gives you a little bit of superpower. It gives you a little bit of dynamic to fall into that role, whatever that role is for you, that if you don't do it, and you don't have it, it's a tougher way to reach the role that you're trying to play.   Anne: And that includes websites too, because that's one of the biggest questions I get is, do I put my photo on my website? Because that has always been the biggest bone of contention, right? Because I'm a voice actor, they don't need to see my face, but again, online people, before they even know you, you want to make yourself as memorable as possible. Yes, it's wonderful to think that my voice alone could do it, but why not your voice combined with your authentic headshot? And I'm gonna say, even if you don't sound how you look, I can say there's value in having, on your about page, a photo of yourself.   I don't think that that is going to misrepresent you at all. And especially if we're talking about authenticity, right? Who is it behind the voice? I think that that really warrants a lot to showcase a photo of yourself. Now, for me, I've always been about visual branding, and so on my website, I've always had a photo of myself, my voiceover website. And I feel as though it doesn't hurt me at all. I think it probably helps me. I think that I probably look like I sound. I don't know, Lau, what do you think? Do I?   Lau: Yes. I think your visual branding matches everything else that you're doing. Not always the case with voiceover talent, but that's okay. For you, I think it's perfect. Perfect. Your visual matches your vocal. It's wonderful.   Anne: So then again, let's talk more in depth about if your visual doesn't match your vocal. Can it hurt you if you put your photo on your website or -- I mean, I feel like you're gonna have to interact with your clients at some point.   Lau: Well, that's it.   Anne: In some way. Right?   Lau: That's it. I think he, you can't avoid the unavoidable and you know, you may not always meet everyone in person, but you are going to be -- now that we're in post COVID, we're having many more in-person events come back.   Anne: Or video meetings.   Lau: Or Zoom. Yes. Mm-hmm. Video meetings. And do you always wanna have your video off? Do you always wanna look a little bit MIA, like you're not fully present? No. You wanna have the ability to have confidence and say, I like the way I look. I'm proud of the way I look. It's part of who I am as a business person. And if they misconstrued my sound with the way I look, you know, hey, what can I do about it? That's called living in the world. I would rather see someone than not for sure.   Anne: Exactly. Yeah. As a client, absolutely. I would much rather deal with someone that I can see visually. Now have I seen all of my clients visually? No. No. But I have usually contacted them via email or at one time or another, my repeat clients, right, I've seen them. I've been in a video meeting with them to discuss a project or I've contacted them for some reason one way or they've live directed me. Some people can put the camera off during one of those sessions. But I like to have it on just to say hi. Just to let people know, hi, I'm a real person. And now during my performance, I don't necessarily have to have it on me as long as I've introduced myself as a part of my business with my visual face.   Now let's talk about, is there any sort of code of how should I look? Remember a long time ago there used to be restrictions, I know, for in the workplace about hair, right? And about beards and about that sort of a thing where it wasn't considered corporate to have a beard or long hair or something like that. So what are your thoughts about today and, and for a voice talent, is there a code of anything really?   Lau: I think it's the best time, Anne, to be able to show your face because the playing field is so open now with what's acceptable, what's welcome. Everything's diversity. Everything is age, everything is background, everything is, you know -- when you go into, like even in Manhattan, when I go into some of the more corporatey kind of firms, they're very business casual. The younger generation is much more casual --   Anne: I love that.   Lau: -- than they were years ago. I love it too. So I think a lot more is acceptable. But that being said, I don't think it gives people a free pass of saying, oh, I'll just look like whatever. I'll just stick on whatever. I'll just do whatever. I would take the time to work with a coach, your coach, whoever is great with styling, great with image, great with fashion, great with branding, and say, listen, this is who I am. This is what I do. I don't wanna go too far away from my authentic, neutral self, but I wanna look really great for who I am. I wanna look put together, I wanna be fresh, I wanna have great colors, great fits.   Anne: Or you wanna look like you care.   Lau: Yeah. Yeah.   Anne: Look, there's a lot of casual people in California. I get that. I've lived here for enough years to know. But coming from the east coast to the west coast is, in terms of clothing and ideals about looks and how you would dress for a corporate job, it's actually quite a bit different. But the cool thing is like, I wear black, I wear leather. Everything I wore on the east coast, I wear on the West Coast. And I haven't changed because I've changed where I've lived. And the cool thing is, is that it allows me to be me. I mean California, for all their casualness, you don't have to put on fancy clothes. But I think also you don't wanna look like that you don't care about your appearance.   Lau: Exactly.   Anne: And so I think that no matter what you have, like, and I remember, gosh, I remember tattoos weren't a thing either. This is my corporate background coming in. Tattoos weren't a thing, nose piercings that -- I've always wanted to get a nose piercing, by the way. This is, this is is Anne's admission. And I think I'm going to get one.   Lau: The truth comes out.   Anne: At this age, I am going to get one, a very small delicate, 'cause I'm a, I'm a bling girl. Right? And I feel like a small bling right here would look awesome.   Lau: Do it, do it.   Anne: But, so now people are gonna hold me to it. So maybe at one point, everybody, BOSSes out there, you'll see me with a little bit of a nose, a nose pierce.   Lau: A little diamond bling right there.   Anne: Little diamond bling. 'Cause it's --   Lau: I love it.   Anne: I like the bling.   Lau: I love it.   Anne: But yeah, I do think that as long as you're showing your authentic you and it's something that your authentic you is something you care about, I think that presents -- because again, it's personal, but don't forget that our personal brand is a business brand. And so we're representing ourselves to people who might want to hire us or maybe not hire us based upon our looks. Is that a thing? True. I mean, I think if we're gonna be brave and show our face and show who we are, we have to also accept the fact that maybe people won't hire us based upon our looks. Lau, thoughts?   Lau: Yeah. If you're meeting people too, which you and I are meeting people all the time, whether we're on Zoom or we're in person, we're meeting people, you know, how do we come across? How do we look them in the eye? Do we smile, all this stuff? So I don't want it to seem like you have to put on armor to meet people. But you wanna enhance your natural beauty, your natural essence, your natural energy. It's sort of like the rule of thumb for a really great actor headshot is I don't want it to be glamorous. I don't want it to be overdone. I want it to be super natural and look like you on a really great day.   Anne: Yeah, yeah.   Lau: So that's sort of the rule of thumb. And ask yourself this question, look at all the businesses out there that now have the owners or the people working in the business show their visual faces. Real estate agents, they all have their faces on cards, right. We have a lot of branding in advertising for everything from furniture to cars to on and on it goes of people who own the dealership, people who run the furniture stores, and, and you're thinking, well why? Why are they on there? Why don't they have, you know, beautiful looking talent on there that are gorgeous? No. Because people wanna see real people. They wanna see who they're creating relationship with to buy these products, but they just wanna make sure that they look good on a good day. They don't wanna roll outta bed. You know?   Anne: Do you remember Don LaFontaine for many years? We heard his voice, heard his voice, heard his voice, and then he started doing the commercials where he, he was in person? I love that. And also because you're on the east coast, oh Lau, please let me know if you -- Men's Warehouse, do you remember his voice? Oh my gosh, for years --   Lau: Oh yes!   Anne: The guy who owned Men's Warehouse had the most beautiful voice and I thought, wow, he should be doing more voiceover instead of his commercials. And then they showed him on the commercial. And so he brought his visual brand, and I loved it. I absolutely loved finding out who the person was behind the voice. And --   Lau: And now they all do it. Now they all do it. And sometimes you're looking and you're going, I'd rather they stayed behind the camera. . Like, you know, they have these deep, you know, Boston accents, you know, come on in and buy a sofah.   Anne: Yeah, yeah.   Lau: You know, what I mean? But the point is, that's what the largest demographic in the commercial market really wants. They want approachable, natural, authentic, real authentic.   Anne: And you know, just like, okay, so just like being an announcer has gone off trend, right? And whenever we get behind that mic, we feel like we have to put on that voice. Here is my voiceover voice. Hello, I'm Anne and this is my voiceover voice. Like that's a put on kind of a -- like people want more authentic. Now character, we're talking something completely different, right? Because you become that character, but you're becoming an authentic character, right? So just as, we don't necessarily like inauthentic sounding or inauthentic in social media where everything's always perfect, we like the authentic person, and that visual brand helps to bring out that authenticity. And I think that is something that can truly help elevate your business as scared as you are.   And for all of the people out there who have gotten into voiceover, because, well I got into voiceover so they didn't have to see my face. Well, I think it's time guys for you to appear and show up to your businesses and show up because we wanna connect with you. And I'm always talking in terms of performance, when I'm trying to get that conversational read, even for narration, right? I'm trying to get that engagement. It's that back and forth. That visual can help you. I'm always talking about, I want that authenticity, I want that engagement. Your visual brand can help you. And that visual brand is in person, when you meet people, your website, it can be a great indicator for your visual brand as well. Even if it's just a picture of you on the about page. I think that it's something that can bring a lot of value, a lot of value.   Lau: I agree. And I think you feel differently. You internalize your external. So you know, it's a fine line. Like we're not all about what we look like. We're not all about what externally comes out. But there is a deep connection between what I'm internally emotionalizing and feeling and what I'm externally giving out to the world. And so I think we can learn a lot from actors who are going for visual roles that they don't dress in costume, and they shouldn't dress in costume for an audition, but they should give a flavor, give a hint of the character in how they're gonna present themselves when they walk in the room.   Anne: And it's always bringing themselves to the character. Right? That really is the winning --   Lau: Yeah, you're gonna do --   Anne: It's the winning. Right? Your twist. Your unique, authentic twist to the story no matter what. Whether you're performing behind the mic, performing in front of the camera, your online storefront, whatever that is, it's helping you to bring that organic, authentic part of you to the role. And even yeah, as you say, character acting.   Lau: If you're gonna do a narration, a corporate narration gig, don't come in wearing your old t-shirt and shorts and flip flops because there's gonna be a little bit of a psychological jump for you to do to that particular job. Come in, you know, come into your booth in your home.   Anne: You're coming into it as an employee, right? In reality, if they've hired you to be the voice of their brand, you are now an employee of that company. So now, dress visually and I think emote as if you were a part of their brand, which you are. If they've hired you and they're going to pay you, you are now an employee, quote unquote, of that company. So.   Lau: Yeah, there's a culture. So there's always this culture to every gig, every client, every happening that shifts and changes. It really doesn't and shouldn't stay the same. To have the mindset of like, well they'll just accept me the way I am -- okay. Sometimes they do. But sometimes they don't. Sometimes they want to have a visual mirror as to who they are, how they're coming in, how they feel about the work. Same with your clients that are your coaching clients or demo clients.   Anne: Sure.   Lau: They wanna feel comfortable that you understand where they're coming from. And sometimes that's visual cues.   Anne: It's very interesting because I coach without visual, I do not coach through Zoom. I coach through ipDTL. Yay, love ip -- why do I coach through ipDTL? Because it's a high quality audio connection, and I need to hear those nuances, especially when I'm doing long format coaching for narration, medical, nuance is everything -- actually nuance is everything for every part of voiceover I think. But that's me. And so I need to be able to hear really well. I need to be able to hear that coming through. And it's interesting 'cause I'll coach a student 10, 20 sessions, and then I'll talk to them over Zoom when I reveal their demo. I always do a Zoom reveal so I can finally meet them. And most of the time I'm not necessarily surprised at how they look 'cause they have a presence on social media or they look like they sound. But sometimes I am completely surprised and pleasantly so. I've never been unpleasantly surprised. But absolutely when I've seen someone, I'm like, wow, I had no idea.   And so I think a lot of times when I'm coaching for voiceover, right, that is primary is voiceover is your voice and hearing the nuances in your voice. But I always wanna hear your authentic self come through in the voice. But always, especially when you're representing a company, you are the employee of that company. But I need your unique, authentic self to come through. And a lot of times that authentic self is your personality. Right? A lot of times your voiceover, I think, is made better by your personality, your unique personality that you bring to it. Because I'm here to help you, I'm here to serve you, I'm here to tell you about this great product that you're -- it's always positive. I don't think we're ever, unless we're doing character work, right? I don't think we're ever emoting things that are negative. Right? Typically we're not hired for negative sounding voiceovers or angry voiceovers, again, unless we're a character. It's mostly a positive, comes from the heart, from a helpful situation. What are your thoughts on that, Lau?   Lau: Oh, I agree. I agree. And I, I mean when you consider how many people out there that are visual learners, they literally take in information, process information and create quick output based on what they're taking in visually. Like I have to give them something to work with if I have the ability to. If they don't see me, they see nothing visual that I do, well, okay. But oftentimes they will, they'll go to my website. They'll go to your social, they'll go to something that has you on it, whatever that is, . And they'll say quickly, do I feel comfortable with this person? Happens in like two seconds.   Anne: Excellent point. And I'm glad you brought that up because whether people decide to put their picture on their website, which is the biggest question I get, or not, right, there's social media somewhere, somewhere out there, there's going to be a photo of you that someone might discover. And maybe that's not the photo that you want them to discover first. Maybe it could be a photo from years ago when you weren't in voiceover or maybe you're being crazy and you know, having fun at a party. Maybe that's not the first photo that you want your potential client to see.   So I figure if you're going to put out a photo, put out that photo that is authentic you now and not you maybe 20 years ago when you weren't doing voiceover. And that's what a lot of my argument is. They're like, yeah, but I, you know, they're not hiring me for my face. And I'm like, true. But they wanna connect with a human being. And by the way, if they really wanted to, they probably could find a picture of you somewhere out there on the internet.   Lau: Yeah. And you know, it's really interesting too. Like it's, this is on topic, off topic. It's like when we were at the conference out in LA, you and I were at that conference out in LA, which we had a fab time, and I pay attention 'cause I listen, listen, listen for cues -- this is all face-to-face in person -- when I'm going through the steps of speaking at that conference, I'm listening to comments to me and comments about me, about who I am and about my brand. And a number of times I heard sometimes from men, sometimes from women, like, oh, I'm standing next to this beautiful woman right here. Or oh, this pretty lady, whatever. Or isn't she just sweet whatever, making initial comment on my visual in the way I look.   And I take it all in because I say, well, that's what they're getting in the first 5, 10, 15 seconds of not really knowing me, just kind of knowing my brand or knowing my name, whatever, I'll take it. I'm not offended by any of it because I feel like people wanna find the quick way to make themselves feel comfortable with you.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: Whatever it is. Maybe I look like their mom, maybe I look like their wife, maybe I look like their daughter. Maybe I have an elegant presence to them in some way. Great. I'll take it. Rather than them saying, oh, you know, she could have switched out that sweatshirt. You know what I mean? She could have put some nice --   Anne: She could have put some nice clothes. Not dirty. That would be my mother talking.   Lau: Yeah. She could've put some, you know, taken off the dirty tennis shoes to come here. You know what I mean? It's--   Anne: My mother who always, you know what I'm saying? My mother, my mother did. Your mother, my mother used to say this all the, all the time she could like if I was going on, she goes, now make sure you put clean underwear on in case you get into an accident.   Lau: Yeah. In case you're an accident.   Anne: Yes. Oh my gosh. . So, but Lau, you know what's so interesting that you mentioned that when I first met you, I think one thing that was instantly drawn to was your smile and your laugh. And that I feel is like an inherent part of who you are and your personality. And again, I feel like that was a visual before I even heard you. Because remember we met during that webinar, we met on video.   Lau: Yes.   Anne: And I just remember your smile and your laugh and I thought instantly it was an instant connection. And I feel like that's what you want to be to your clients. You want to have an instant connection with your clients.   Lau: You do. And to the point where it's so deeply psychological, they feel they know you. They feel they know you already. Like they really know you and you're thinking, I don't think you know me or they don't know me, but that's okay. That's okay. I want to know you. I'm going to know you. And if this is just a first step, then this is just a first step.   Anne: And I feel if you're on social media at all, right? Social media is so visual these days. Right? I mean if you are on social media, you're probably throwing out a picture, a picture, maybe not of you, but it could be of your family, could be of your fur babies, could be of -- you're throwing out images of your authentic self. We hope. Right? Because sometimes, as we know is the issue with social media is it becomes the fake presence. But I think if any of you are on social media at all and you've got potential clients everywhere, and they could be seeing your presence socially before they even consider hiring you, and that social impression that they get from you could be from comments that you're making or pictures that you're sharing. Everything's video now. TikTok, Instagram reels. Facebook reels. And I feel like it's almost impossible for you to not showcase your visual on social media these days.   Lau: Yeah. It is. Like you can't get away from it at all. Even if people are taking photos at an event that you attended, you're gonna show up somewhere in the photo. And they may not always be a great photo, but the point is you gotta stay at home and never leave and be super careful to not be caught in some sort of visual. And even in your branding, you have to put out some sort of visual for your branding.   Anne: And I think if your fear is being pigeonholed, I think your vocal type might be pigeonholed anyways if you have a very unique voice. Right? I think when you're talking like a very young voice for your age or any type of voice that is different than you look like, whether you put your picture out there or not, I feel like you're going to be cast in a certain role.   For example, if you have a very high pitched voice right now, although now it's becoming more commonplace, maybe you wouldn't be cast for an older personality that's buying, I don't know, bifocals. So whether your photo is out there or not, your voice is gonna be cast in that way or not based upon the sound or the perceived sound that the client is looking for. So I don't think it matters if you post a photo of yourself on your website that doesn't represent your voice because they're hiring you for the voice, and the voice is then being cast in a role as they see fit. But your authenticity comes through in that voice.   Lau: Yes. And everything's subjective at the end of the day, like you can't get away from subjectivity. That's human nature. We're based on our own frame of reference, how we are perceiving you and how we're taking you in. So I don't think we can fully control that. But there is something, I think, especially with someone who doesn't know you, there is a psychological bond that happens quickly when they perceive that you care.   Anne: Yeah. Yeah.   Lau: They perceive you care enough to put yourself together, to do that little extra whatever it is you are doing, whether it's your hair, or your materials -- or as a woman, Anne, we talk about this all the time, I get so many people who say, Hey Lau, I love what you're wearing. What's that necklace you're wearing? Or where'd you get that ring? Or da da da. Sounds kind of materialistic, but it's something that they can connect to you on. Something that they care about, something that makes them feel comfortable. And then you'll make that chitchat based exactly on, oh, where I got this or what is that? Or, and then that always leads to the next thing, the next thing, the next thing, the next thing.   Anne: Absolutely.   Lau: And so that, that's valuable.   Anne: And people who know you because of what you've put out there, like visually and/or audibly, right, becomes a point of connection that you can then use to be memorable in your brand. So great discussion. So guys, if you're afraid to put your pho -- don't be afraid to put your photo out there. Don't be afraid to put yourself out there on video. Don't be afraid to put yourself out there in person, in front of your potential clients, in front of your clients. It is a piece of who you are, it is a piece of your brand, and it's a piece of your business.   Lau: I'm with you all the way.   Anne: Well, thank you, Lau, for another thrilling discussion. I love, I love, love, love talking to you every week.   Lau: I love it too. And may I say we look fabulous today.   Anne: Yes. We thank you , because we're our authentic selves. So with that, I'd like to give a great shout out to ipDTL. You too can network, communicate like BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And also if you have a local nonprofit that's close to your heart, if you've ever wanted to help them, you can visit 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how. You guys, have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Thanks so much. Bye.   Lau: Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Raising your rates as a voice actor can be a daunting task, but it doesn't have to be. In this episode, Anne & Lau discuss tips for approaching money conversations with clients, moving past the fear around charging what you're worth and deciding when to raise your rates. It's important that you know what your time is worth and what kind of value your clients are getting from working with you. Your voice is an asset. By taking charge of these conversations & setting your rates accordingly, you can make sure that your business is running smoothly. Your clients want to work with someone who knows their own value and isn't afraid of asking for it. And if you need someone to talk you through the process, keep on listening…   Transcript   It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the business superpower series with my special guest co-host Lau Lapides. Hey Lau. Woo-hoo! Always so wonderful to see you.   Lau: Always great to be back. .   Anne: Well, Lau it's a change of seasons and so I'm feeling like I've gone back and reflected upon my business, and it is the time of year where I make the consideration, do I want to raise my prices or not? And what a great discussion Lau, because it is so difficult. How do you raise your prices? How do you raise your rates? And how do you go about doing that with clients that you've had for years or new clients for fear of, oh my gosh, your rates are too high, or rates are too low. I thought it would be a wonderful thing to discuss today on how we can raise our rates, because as businesses, we need to be profitable, right? For the majority of us in this industry, we would like it to be a business and not a hobby. And so to be a business, we need to yield a profit and to yield a profit, that includes pricing yourself. So let's start with you. Talk to me about, first of all, how do you set your prices for your particular voiceover jobs, acting jobs? What do you do first in order to set a fair rate for yourself or a fair price to yourself?   Lau: The question of the year, I say --   Anne: Isn't it though?   Lau: Not even of the day, but of the year. I can hear all of your listeners. The BOSSes are moving a little bit closer, and listening closer. Now, it's a great conversation to have. So I really am thrilled that we're having it today. In my opinion, there's a lot of fear around this conversation. There's a lot of apprehension, a lot of almost terror, I'd say, in really giving yourself as a person and also your brand, as a business, a price tag. That's very difficult for people's brains to get around, especially creatives who are artists and women can have a tough time with that as well.   Anne: Oh yeah.   Lau: And I think everyone can have a tough time as they move through their business, not just in early stages either. Like, people that are at 10, 15, 20 years into the biz having challenges with this topic. I myself have had many challenges through the years. I think one of the first things that, when we take a step back and we look at the whole fee structure of what we are doing, we have to ask ourself what is our worth? What is our value?   And it's not, not a simple, oh, this is what I'm worth and this is my value. It's really something to journal about, something to think deeply on, to converse with people you know and trust, and to do some market research, to really go into the market, say, this is our industry, this is my space. The more I niche down in my space, the more I can research the industry going rates, and really just document that. I would take a little bit of time and document that and update that like every six months to a year, just update.   Anne: Sure.   Lau: Every six months to a year, get knowledgeable.   Anne: So starting what the industry rates are. And so I totally agree with you there. In order for you to raise your rates, you have to set your rates. And so that's the question, number one is before you can raise them, how do you set them? And I think a great reference point is, and we've mentioned this multiple times on the podcast, is the rate guides. GVAA has a fantastic rate guide, Gravy for the Brain has one, SAG-AFTRA has their rates posted. So that's a great benchmark to start to set your rates.   And I think we've mentioned this before, but I'll mention it again, whether you are new to the industry or you've been in the industry for 20 years, you can price yourself at the standard rate. Just because you're new doesn't mean that you have to price yourself at a lower rate than somebody who's been in the business for 15, 20 years. Because in essence, it actually helps the industry if you are pricing yourself at a fair going rate according to the rate guides.   Lau: I would agree with that. Totally agree with that. You took the words out, right outta my head. I was about to say, you almost do the industry in injustice when you go too far low and too far below what the industry rates are. Even though there may be times where you do that and you choose to do that, you need to do that and that's okay. But as a running rule, you wanna stay at the industry rates or above because you wanna drive the market up. You don't wanna drive the market down.   Anne: Exactly.   Lau: We oftentimes hear the sayings like it's a race to the bottom. What that really means is like we're all excited about working. We wanna get as much work as we can, charge them anything and just get anything for the business. And I think that there's a time and place for that. But for sustainability and longevity of a business, it just doesn't work. It does not work in any way. And you are devalued. You're immediately devalued in the eyes of that prospect client. So to really sit down and say, okay, whether I'm starting out or whether I'm running my business, you and I have been running our businesses for 15-plus years, is to say, what is my value today? How has that changed from a year ago? How have we grown? What are my products? How have I niched my products? And what are those products valued at in the market today?   I would start there. That's a good start right there. And then to start thinking about time. What does time mean to you? How much value is your time? How valuable is your time? What's your worth? Your knowledge, your ethos, your education --   Anne: Your experience.   Lau: Your experience, right? It's, that's where the subjective force comes in. What makes me unique? What's my value proposition different from others in the space doing similar work, helps establish that value.   Anne: Well, I think also one thing that helps us as freelancers is that I like to break it into different categories. You have the new clients, the ever evolving, I guess, cycle of new clients that come along. And for that, it's easy to set a rate or raise your rate. Okay? Because they've not had previous experience with you. So in a way that makes it easier for us to either celebrate or raise our rates. And it is up to us though, to take that step to do that.   I mean, I myself was guilty for back in the beginning, keeping my rates, keeping my rates, keeping my rates until I felt that I had built my business up enough to warrant raising my rates. But I do feel that every year is a great time to reevaluate your rates, and the economy too. You've gotta take a look at the economy. Now, we've got so many different things happening at this point in our industry.   We have the evolving economy, which is not doing great right now. So is it a good time to raise my rates? Right? We've got that to consider. What is the market willing to pay? What is the market willing to bear for a price of voiceover, especially now with synthetic voices looming on the horizon. So there's a lot of other factors that need to be taken into place, and if it wants to play into our fear, well, that's what does it for sure. Right? A lot of times the economy and other factors including competition from not only voice actors but now synthetic voices -- and so that just builds upon the fear.   If you weren't scared before raising your rates, now we've got a couple, a couple extra things that are being thrown into the mix, but I will say that because we are freelancers and because we continually acquire new clients, this is a good time to be able to set or raise your rate for the new clients that come aboard. And you know what? Here's the deal. If you decide to set your rate higher than you normally do or raise your rate, what's gonna happen is you will see if the market will bear it, right? If people are gonna say, yeah, sure, that's great. And not question the rate. And so when that happens, there's nothing better than that, because that gives you the confidence to really go forth and raise your rates for all clients.   So it's a great test bed when you get a new client to either set your rate higher or actually change your rate for the new clients. Now I like the whole grandfather clause where I've had a client for many years, and because they are a good client that continues to give me business, I will make a decision on an independent basis whether or not I will raise my rates for them. And then that becomes a different conversation, right? Because now that's where you've gotta like own up to saying, look, I appreciate you as a client, and I'm so thankful for the business and thankful for our relationship together. How do I say I'm going to raise my rights now?   Lau: Ooh.   Anne: Oh, there's the tough one.   Lau: Ooh, snap. There's what she did. Well, everyone has a different thought process. And again, you took the words out of my head because the way I tend to run my business is I tend to show loyalty and allegiance to current clients and typically stay at the rates that they're at. You certainly don't have to. And there are many businesses that will go up in rates on current clients. I just haven't done that quite as much. I keep them at the rate, grandfather them in, have the blank slate on new people with a new pricing coming in. And typically there just isn't any conflict of interest with that.   Oftentimes they don't even know the difference. They just see you coming in, and here's the interesting psychological value to that. All of a sudden you give a new pricing, and they may not flinch at all and say, oh, okay, great. And then you think, oh my gosh, I could have done that years ago.   Anne: Yes.   Lau: I could have done that years ago instead of playing all these psychological games with myself. To this person, the value is there. You are worth it. They're ready to go, and why wouldn't they pay that price? So I think to find good quality clients, the kind of clients that fit you, fit your business is so important. And to know that there are going to be clients that are not good for you; they're not good for you any longer, or they don't fit what your value is because they see it as a cost.   Anne: Right. Right. Exactly.   Lau: They don't see it as an investment. So I tend to use very strategic language when I speak to people. Is this your investment or is this a cost for you? And then educate them on what the difference is. And once they figure out that this is an investment, oh yeah, I'm glad you put it that way, then it is worth it to me. So sometimes it takes the little bit of education in there for them to shift their mindset to, well, you spent how much on a college education? You spent how much on your graduate degree? You spent how much on your online courses, what have you. Was that cost or was that investment? So this is the same thing. This is the same thing.   Anne: I love that you say cost or investment, because I think that clients who look at it as an investment are absolutely going to see your worth much more readily than a client that sees it as a cost. And it's also important, I think, for us as actors and creatives to understand that our voice is an asset. And I know I say it, yes, your voice is an asset, but what does that really mean? Right? Your voice contributes to potential millions of dollars in sales , right, for a client. And sometimes I think we forget that. We become so far removed from the product, the end product that we are providing the voice for that we forget our worth in terms of that.   So don't forget that your voice as an asset -- and this, I'll tell you what, I've learned this in my dealings with trying to talk to, let's say, synthetic voice producers or directors or companies that are producing synthetic voices -- to say that the voice is an asset, that it is worthy of compensation. It is worthy of fair compensation because that asset is what contributes to a company's brand. And don't forget that, BOSSes. Your voice contributes to a company's brand, which is no different than a marketing material or an on-air camera talent that gets paid a good amount of money to represent the brand of a company. So I think because we're in our studios, and we're like alone, we forget that somehow, that our voice really does contribute to a brand's value and a brand's ability to sell.   Lau: That's right. Absolutely. And quick anecdote on that one, just this past week I have a, a new agent colleague from LA who opened an agency and she was calling me to check in on a contract that she's working on for voiceover, and she doesn't currently represent voiceover. And she was going through what would be a fair rate for this talent, and she kept saying over and over and over again, I mean, these people are making millions off of this. They're making millions off of this. And we're talking about the difference between like, they offered $350, $350, she went up to $1100. I said, why don't you offer at lea -- oh my god, 1500 is like still so incredibly -- and her, there was a fear factor in there. I could hear the fear slip in. I said, what's the worst that happens?   Anne: They say, no.   Lau: You slide, you do whatever you want to do and feel is right. But my goodness, the truth is it should be actually so, so, so much higher than that. She just didn't wanna start at such a high rate compared to what the original rate they were giving her. She didn't wanna slide so high. But the truth is, it's so outta whack, it's so outta bounds in terms of what a company may be doing with that brand and creating gross versus what the talent is being paid, which is nothing, pennies, literally less than pennies.   Anne: There's something to be said for pricing yourself in such a way that it is value because you've priced yourself higher versus if you price yourself too low, then it's a perception of, well, okay, so that's a cheap price, right, for a cheap talent maybe. And that may or may not be the way that you want your brand to be perceived. So I always have said that I'm Tiffany's, right? I don't go on sale. This is my rate. And if a client chooses to accept that rate, then they are also accepting obviously that that is my worth and that I'm worth the value of that.   And I think that if they don't, it's okay. You have time to go and find the people that will pay you the rate that you're worth and value that charge or your increase in price. And it's a difficult, difficult thing, especially when you attack it from, well, if I raise my prices, am I going to raise my prices for everyone? And I don't think you have to. I think as we've discussed it, I've got people that are grandfathered in, and each one of those clients that I've been working with for a certain amount of time, each gets a special consideration.   Now, I might have worked with people for 10 years already at the same rate. And I think it makes it a whole lot easier when you propose to them that your rates, due to increased costs in running your business, your rates have to change. And this, for anybody that uses, let's say an audio editor for their work, and they're paying them as well, if they go up in price, and you're still charging the same, well, you've gotta recoup those costs somehow as a business.   Lau: Exactly.   Anne: I've got that. I've got people that I pay for services that are raising their prices on me. And as a business, I've gotta somehow figure out how am I going to accommodate that cost? Because as a business, I don't wanna lose profit on that because I wanna maintain or elevate my business.   Lau: Right. And there is a huge credence to the philosophy that I wanna price myself above the market rate.   Anne: Yeah, yeah.   Lau: Not to get into like scamming or anything like that. Nothing negative. Like, oh, I just wanna make as much money as I can. No, no. You wanna say, listen, here's my price, here's my value, here's my investment, and I'm giving you, as you said, the Tiffany's approach. I'm giving you that Tiffany's approach. So you're investing in that, and that, that actually psychologically tells people that your worth is so high, it's so much higher. So it must be worth the cost of admission. So I'm going down that road, I've been going down that road for a number of years now, saying, yes, we are a slightly higher than the average studio. Yes, we are slightly higher, whatever, because here's the value prop X, Y, Z. That's what we do. That's what we give. You don't want that, then we're not the place for you.   Anne: Right. Right.   Lau: So yes, being able to walk away, being able to say, this business isn't gonna work, this client isn't gonna be good. They don't see the value, that's okay. I think that's fine. You know, you don't have to sort of tear for every single person who comes your way. They're not always gonna be the right ones for you.   Anne: You bring up a good point there, and I've seen this as some discussion on the forums as well lately about some talent feeling that they have a need to school their clients on a fair price. And there's a way to do that that is respectful of a client. I think, again, you have to really put yourself in the client's shoes. Not all clients are in direct control of the money that can be paid for your services. Not all clients really do have the budget, and if they don't, I think it's well worth it for us to say or advise that you're not rude about it. Because not every company has the budget to pay voice services for whatever you might be commanding at the moment. So I think be careful when you are renegotiating with your clients back and forth for a rate.   I think for me, when it's a new client and I'm negotiating a rate, I always start on the higher end, which makes it easy to negotiate down. I always leave an open space in my quote, and a lot of times that's in an email that says, please let me know if this fits within your budget. And that sentence alone pretty much just opens the door for negotiation. And so then a client can come back to me and say, well, I've only been allocated this much for the budget, and then I can work with that. So I always kind of shoot higher anyway. And so that kind of works within my, let's raise the rates this year.   I think it's a conscious decision that you as a business person, right -- put the creative aside for a moment -- well, keep the creative to know what you're worth, but also put on your business hat and really put yourself in the position. Here's what I'm going to do, and stick with it and try to just get past that fear. I think that's the biggest thing that stops the majority of us from raising our rates or charging what we're worth in the first place.   Lau: Yeah. I think you just have to do it. Like you have to go ahead and do it. Look, what's the worst that happens? It doesn't work.   Anne: They say no.   Lau: You can go back. You can go back, you can change your rates, make it lower. Like no one's holding you against a wall. You can do it, but you've gotta try it. I, this gets into negotiation, Anne, a little bit, but I would say it's very important to, once you give that number, once you give that fee, to stop talking. It's very important to give it, to have a sense of just like you would deliver copy and say, this is what we do for this investment company or for this healthcare. We help you, we give you health. This is what our fee is.   Anne: Mm-hmm. And then wait.   Lau: And then stop.   Anne: Then wait. Say nothing.   Lau: What do they say in sales? Like the first person who speaks loses.   Anne: Exactly, that's true.   Lau: Because our nature as caring people, many are artists I wanna say, but you know, we're the lowest, we're kind of cheap, and we're not gonna take, and to sort of justify and give excuses and tell you why we selected that fee -- don't do it. Don't succumb to that seductive force of wanting to explain or self-deprecate.   Anne: Yeah. Yeah.   Lau: Or say, I shouldn't be doing this and I don't know why I'm doing this, but hopefully it works for you, and I hope you can do this. Don't do it. Don't do it.   Anne: Yeah basically --   Lau: Don't do it.   Anne: Here's my price. Let me know if it fits within your budget. And then I wait.   Lau: Yes.   Anne: If you start to pursue it or act desperate in any way, then that's negotiation skills. And I'm so glad in a way that I had to develop those early on because when I first got into the business, I waited a long time before I pursued an agent. And so, so until then I was negotiating for narration, you know, non-broadcast work. And so that gave me a lot of confidence. I could try things out, I tried rates out. And it's funny because people will ask me, well, what do you charge for this? And I'll be like, I pulled that right outta my butt. I pulled that number right outta my butt. But honestly, this's where it comes half the time because I've got a basis. But I don't necessarily know this client.   I try to validate the client first and see what other work they have and educate myself as much as possible and then give a number. And sometimes that number, there's no basis for that number other than it's just I took a benchmark and I priced it up a certain amount based upon my last experience. And basically it's all trial and error, and I've always left myself that window open for negotiation. And that experience has really, I think, educated me more than just about anything else in this industry, was the education of being able to negotiate.   And so for that you play a lot of games and you fight a lot of fear. And it takes just a few times for things to work in your favor. Always ask the client if they have a budget in mind, because that budget can also help you to gauge pricing. I asked a client once what their budget was, and they're like, oh, I can't spend more than $3,000 for this. And I'm like, whoa. That was like three times what I was gonna quote.   Lau: So much higher.   Anne: That was three times higher than I was gonna quote. And I said, I think I can work with that . So that sort of thing can really give you confidence to understand where your worth is and then also where you might price and where you might start to raise your rates. So every year I say, take a look at what you're charging people, 'cause I have a base guideline, and by the way, I don't advertise it at all. I think that it used to be a thing where some people advertised their rates, and I think in that kind of a tactic, it's almost like if you're gonna advertise your rates, you're looking to get people who are trying to get the lowest cost. Here's my rates, I'll do a commercial for $100, or you know, a 60-second commercial for $100. And I think if you're gonna do that, then you're playing the wrong game there. You're playing the lowest bid wins, and you've kind of limited yourself in terms of profit that you can make by publishing your rates. So it's more of a custom boutique service if you say, contact me or if you're interested, here are my demos. If you're interested, contact me and then start the conversation.   Lau: And that's exactly why it's important to stay quiet as much as you speak, because you're gonna pick up the cues of what that client is saying to you and you're gonna make your quick notes so that in your brain you can say, oh I can go hide her. I didn't realize that. Or I'm way too high. Am I willing to lose this client? Like you can start that conversation, that inner monologue going, if you're listening to the cues that are coming in.   And there was one more point I wanted to make 'cause you said something so cool and that was about control yourself. Like control your emotions, control how you react to things. Here's the psychology of selling. Is that like nothing should get me upset is the truth. Everything should be objectified just enough so that whatever comes out of them is not really about me. They're talking about my business. So they're not -- so I'm not just like an actor. It's like if I don't get the job, it's not really about me, it's about what I'm offering is not really right for that role. Well, it's the same in business. They're not really talking about me. 'Cause guess what? They don't know me and they don't know me at all. I'm a stranger. They're talking about their perception of this whole business that they may not know anything about. Or they may have had a, a big history, they may have been burned, who knows?   Like we don't know when they come in the room, what they've been through. They may have been through a lot. So you have to give them the benefit of the doubt that if they get irritated or angry or if they treat you inappropriately, you have to understand that they're coming in with a history. But don't fall into it yourself. Like we used to say in training, leave your trash at the door. You know what I mean? Like you, well you can pick it up on your way out, but don't put it in someone else's court. Because you lose your power when you do that. You talk about superpowers, it renders you incapable of diplomacy and neutralization, when you start to say, how could he say that about me? Or how could he downgrade me like that or whatever, you know?   Anne: That's what it is. I think part of it is the emotional aspect of it and keep the emotions out of the business. Take it out.   Lau: Take it out, take it out.   Anne: It's so hard for us because our product is so personal to us. It is our voice. It is who we are. It is our brand. And so when we get treated by a potential client and them, I guess, diminishing our worth in terms of no, I can't pay that. Or no, that's not in our budget, we have to not take that personally because it's not about us; it's about business.   Lau: That's right.   Anne: And some clients literally don't have the budget and we have to just accept that and not be offended, not be angry.   Lau: Mm-Hmm. And isn't it okay, Anne, that they don't want it, they don't like it, they don't agree with it? It's still a free country. You know what I mean? It's like they have a right to not think that's fair or to not wanna put the money into it. They have a right to do anything they wanna do. One technique that I use that I found just for my own sake, that preserves me in the process is whatever happens in terms of the fee structure and the negotiation and the chit chat, I always immediately redirect. If I hear something negative coming out, I immediately affirm it. I hear it, I hear you. And then I redirect it onto something positive, and nine times outta ten, it works really well.   So like for instance, I say, oh, my fee is this for whatever, for a demo. And they go, oh my God, that's expensive. And I'll say, well, you know, it's an investment. You're, you're investing in your future, whatever. And they'll say, well, I don't know. I don't, I don't know. Let me think about that. I'll say, great, think about it. I'm here for you when you come back. And in the meantime, I appreciate you sharing your story with me. That was valuable to me. And they go, well, thank you. That's sweet of you to say that. And then the conversation is redirected. And I mean that, I'm not just saying it as a sales tactic. I mean it from Lau that I'm gonna walk away saying I may or may not close a client. But I heard a really interesting story and I learned something from that conversation, and now I know something about what I can't do or what I can't do.   And so you have to have your takeaways too from the selling process. It's not just about the number, it's about I'm constantly reevaluating my own worth, reevaluating my own value, reevaluating how I view the business and perceive the human contact. And that's worth its weight and gold. Right? .   Anne: Well, it's so funny that you say that. And I have multiple aspects of my business where I, I, I mean, it's not just about voiceover clients. I have coaching clients, I have demo clients, I have VO Peeps memberships, I have VO BOSS marketing that I sell to people. And I'm constantly having to, if people are like, well, they're on a subscription, and they decide that -- end of year, it's always the time when people reevaluate their expenses and they're saying, well, was it worth it or was it not? And so whenever I get those emails saying, well, I'm looking to cancel because you know, I'm not seeing the value, I will always have, thank you so much for your feedback. I'm grateful for it. Here's my thought. Here's my thought. Think of this, think of that. And here's the value that we're providing, and we appreciate you and the value, and let us try to work something out. And I'll usually do that once.   And it's amazing how many times I can recoup someone by pointing out the value that they might have missed over the years or the month, or this is how we're bringing value to your brand. And so I think it's worth a shot rather than just saying, well, okay. I mean, I could just say okay and not care about it. But I'm always responding back with, thank you for your feedback. Thank you for your input. I appreciate that. I completely understand. It's hard at the end of the year for everyone. Here are some thoughts to consider.   Lau: Perfect.   Anne: And that is something that you can do for a client if you raise your rates with them. If they say no or they push back, you can say, thank you, I appreciate your feedback. And that's how you respond. Really, you have to just respond with grace. There's no other way really, and gratefulness for them being your client. But I say, yeah, stay firm with, here's my new rates. And I don't think that your rates should again, be outside of, you don't wanna go crazy and price yourself out of the market. I think that there's an acceptable range where you can raise your rates and it's not ridiculous. So I have vendors for me right now that are raising their rates and I have to figure out how I'm going to absorb that cost or raise my rates in return.   Lau: That's right.   Anne: But as voice talent, voice artist, voice actors, absolutely. I think it's worth at this point, or at whatever time, once a year to evaluate what you're charging and then consider whether it's time to raise your rates. Because we all need to progress. We all need to continue the profit, the economy, other things happen around us and we need to accommodate for that.   Lau: Yes. If you work on your plan, you work on your action plan for the year or for the quarter, you'll know what you wanna be grossing, you'll know what you wanna be taking in, and you'll know how close or how far away I am from that based on the rates that I'm charging right now and the volume that I deal with.   Anne: Look at the numbers, BOSSes. I know it's scary, but I think the first thing is look at the numbers. And I think that's probably the most scary thing for most of us, probably scarier than an audition or a gig that we really want. It's scarier to look at the numbers. What's your incoming, what's your outgoing, what are your rates now? And have the courage to step back, look at it, and raise those rates if you need to. So great conversation, Lau.   Lau: Anne, can I throw in one more thing for the road?   Anne: Yeah, absolutely.   Lau: Because. I just thought of this and I know you're like this and I know I'm like this. I think we care so much and that's why we get scared. If we didn't care --   Anne: Makes sense.   Lau: -- at all, we couldn't give a two hoots about what they think, whatever, we'll raise it sky high -- no, it's because we care and the good people deeply care about the people first. And so we're always regarding their feelings and how they view things and what, what makes life easier for them. And that's a wonderful trait to have. We just have to balance that with taking care of our selves as well.   Anne: Absolutely. Great point. Thank you, Lau. Oh, great topic. Absolutely great topic. And I think we all need to address it at one point during the year in our careers. So I'd like to give a great, big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect network and talk about money and rates like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And also I want you to know about a chance where you can use your voice to make an immediate difference in the world and give back to the communities that give to you. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to commit. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye!   Lau: See you then! Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

  Fear is a powerful force, and one that can hold you back from reaching your full potential. But fear doesn't have to be a bad thing. If you let fear in and learn from it, you'll be able to overcome the obstacles that keep you from achieving success as a voice actor. This may seem counterintuitive, but when you're afraid of something, whether it's a new genre, emerging technology, or a difficult conversation, you can use that fear as motivation to push yourself beyond your comfort zone. Bosses, you can't grow without fear. Listen up to learn how you can turn what you're most afraid of into positive actions that will transform your voice over career…   Transcript    >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey hey, everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS Podcast and the Business Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am so happy to bring back to the show, Lau Lapides. Hey Lau. Lau: Hey, how are you, Anne? Anne: I'm doing good, actually. oh, wait, I should start that over because I need like, ooh, . Lau: Ooh. Are you doing sound effects or no? Anne: I'm doing sound effects, Lau. I needed sound effects for today's -- Lau: I got one for you. Ready?  Anne: All right. (breathing sound) What's that? Lau: You know, that's the serial killer. That's Mike Meyers and all of that. Friday the 13th. Anne: Oh my God. See, so I don't watch horror films or scary movies. Lau: Gotcha. Anne: But what, that actually brings us to a great topic for today since it is near the holiday, the scary, spooky holiday. What scares you? What scares you, BOSSes, and how do you deal with fear? I think that's a really great topic. Lau, I mean, we've talked about fear prior to this, but we haven't really concentrated on it. I am a firm believer that you need to do something scary every single day, in order to grow.  Lau: I love that.  Anne: In order to grow. Lau: That's what the great Eleanor Roosevelt said, right? I do something every day that scares you. I would agree with that. I would definitely agree with that. And if it means just simply stepping outside your box, getting uncomfortable, we have these conversations every day, right, Anne, with the clients and each other, like how do we get uncomfortable to stretch ourselves and to learn? And yeah, to get a little scared, to get a little frightened, like get the dopamine kick going so that you can push yourself and really stretch yourself? Yeah. I think it's important to get scared. Anne: So what's frightening, do you think, for most new talent when they come into this industry and try to be a success? Maybe that's the scariest thing, right?  Lau: Yeah. Yeah. I think fear is the number one factor for failure.  Anne: I do too, fear of failure, right? Lau: Yeah. It can mean your ultimate success or your ultimate demise, and how you respect fear, how you treat fear, how you accept fear into your life, and then how you overcome it. I really think that you have to just grab a hold of fear and understand it's healthy to feel fear. Your survival fight or flight technique does kick in, right, when you're doing new things.  But to answer your question, I think a lot of things scare newbies. And one is, you know how the market can be saturated. It can be lots and lots of people that are working, that you may perceive to be ahead of you or professionals, and you're coming in and you don't know exactly what you're doing just yet. And feeling like that fish out of water can be a very scary experience. Anne: Yeah. Well, let's start with that, right? Not necessarily knowing what you're doing. I think that was in the very beginning for me, coming out of the corporate world or wherever you're coming from to get into this industry is maybe, number one, not knowing everything there is to know about the industry. And by the way, we all don't know everything, but , you gain experience over the years. Fear of navigating a business when if you have never done that before, I think that probably surpasses all of my fears. I mean, first you've got the fear, am I good enough to make it and to be successful? But then it's like, oh gosh, well, what do I do? How do I create a business? What do I even do to start? Do I need to have a DBA? Do I need to incorporate? What sort of things do I need to do to run this business and accounting? Like I've never done accounting, I've never negotiated a job. All of those things. And it all seems to just kind of happen at once in the beginning of your career. And I think that that can be overwhelming to some people. Lau: You know, when you said accounting, your eyes got really, really big. It was like a 1920s talkie. It was like accounting? Anne: Accounting. Oh my gosh. Lau: No!  Anne: Right?  Lau: But, but see, the physiological reaction you do have to ideas and concepts that really do cause this physical distress. And I would say failure overall, like the fear of failure. What if this doesn't go well? What if I am terrible? What if I don't make money? What if I can't get a job? What if, what if, what if? That's really scary to a lot of people. Anne: Right? And I'll tell you, when I first started full-time and we moved from the east coast to the west coast, I had said to my husband, Jerry, until I get on my feet, hopefully you'll get a job that can pay you a little bit better. And so it can kind of compensate, and we'll be able to afford the cost of living. And once he got here, literally, I think it was nine months, they laid him off. And that became very scary because I still was getting my wheels turning and spinning and making money full-time for the business. But once that second source of finance kind of fell , it was like, whoa. Now I was really scared because I felt like I had a lot of pressure to do well and contribute to the household because he was kind of taking care of things until I was getting my business set up. So that really put a lot of fear. But what was cool about it in a way, is that it motivated me. So fear really worked as a motivation for me to get my butt in gear. And if I was afraid of anything, like how do I market, how do I -- certainly took a step towards educating myself. And I think that is one way to really combat your fears, is to educate yourself on the thing that you are most afraid of, like accounting or running a business. Do I need to register my business? How do I register my business? How can I get voiceover jobs? How can I market myself? Well, I think a good thing to start with is education. And I love the internet. I love Google. Like people have called me Anne GanGoogle because yes, I use it for everything. Right? Lau: That's catchy. Anne: Yeah. I mean, you don't have to go to the library anymore, and all the young people are gonna go, what? What you used to have to go to the library? Yeah. We used to have to go -- Lau: What is a library? Anne: -- the library and check out books. But now at our fingertips, really, we have so much information, so much information that we can use to educate ourselves. And I think that's the first step to helping you to challenge that fear and get over that fear. Education, knowledge is power. Lau: Mm. Education is key. Yeah, I'm right over there because knowledge is power. And you do feel, we're talking about superheros, right? We're talking about how we get empowered and powerful in the industry, especially when you're new. This is true of anything. When you're new at something, you're learning, you're, you're trying to get experiential and it takes time. It's not an overnight success.  Anne: Yeah.  Lau: It really does take time. And just kind of understanding that, having the knowledge, having the education. Totally, totally good. And the fear, I mean, when I think about fear, I think of how does community, my family, my friends, my colleagues, how do they view me? What are they saying to me? I might be a little fearful. Are they gonna judge me? Are they gonna think this is for real? Are they gonna support me? Are they going to try to stop me or put a boundary in my way? I've met a lot of clients, and I know you have as well, unfortunately, that didn't have the support, and in fact had sort of axes thrown at them all the way through and dodging people just to get to where they want to be. They just didn't have the support system. So that is scary. That is scary, not having a tribe, not having that community surrounding you that supports you. Anne: Yeah, exactly. I think that in addition to education, having the support group around you, and it just brings me to the episode that we did about your VO tribe. So very important to have that support, especially because we work by ourselves. We're typically in our booths and coworkers are not around us. And so having that verbal support where if you've got a question or you're nervous, you can reach out to someone and get some support there. And family is very important, I think, because uh, , I think maybe all of us have had at least one member of the family that has said, what do you do? Like, what is this? ? What is that?  Lau: What is, why would you -- Anne: What is is voiceover? Yeah. I don't understand. So, I do think that the support of your family, first and foremost, is wonderful. And if you don't have that, the VO community is a wonderful community. I'd say be very careful and social media can be wonderful, but it can also be, oh gosh, it can also not be so wonderful. So , I think that if you have accountability groups or support groups on Facebook, people that you can write to, ask questions to, that's gonna be very helpful for you as well. I think that there's something to be said for, yes, it's great to have that support, but I think it's also something that if you can challenge yourself on a daily basis, like I said, try to do something every day that scares you a little bit. Like if you've never gotten out there to market or sent an email to an agent, I think that writing those kind of tasks down, things that scare you, and then attempting to maybe backtrack the steps that it takes to get you to that point and just try to attack one of those every day. Lau: Absolutely. And that is scary because again, it's new. It's something you're not accustomed to. You don't know, am I doing this the right way? What are they expecting of me? I think that is one of the areas that people stop. They just get stopped in their track. And I thought of another one, Anne, for you, this is very common, I see this, the fear of technology. And many of us fall into it at different levels, right? Like how technology driven you are, how knowledgeable you are about equipment. Are you good at setting up your studio? How do you upgrade and level up? I mean, these are all areas that terrify people. Really. Anne: I agree. I agree. And you know, technology, see, you hit my soft spot there. And BOSSes that don't know -- I mean, I think a lot of BOSSes know me, but if you don't, I am very, very much technology oriented. I worked in technology, I still work in technology, and I like to be on the bleeding edge of it, speaking of things that are scary. And one of the reasons I like that is because I feel like for me, I always take the stance that technology is there to help us progress, to help us advance in society. And it's not evil. You can certainly take that stance if you'd like, that technology is evil. But I don't think that either way you're going to stop the advancement of technology. I think technology would be, oh gosh, so much further if we didn't put a stop to it. If humans didn't say, no, no, no, no, no all the time, I think we would be further along in our technological advancements.  And I like to believe in the good of technology. And that includes, I speak the words of synthetic voices. We're not stopping them. They're coming. And I think we just need to know about them and know all that we can about them in order for us to really be able to manage our business. We have to be able to manage our business 'cause they're going to be alongside us; whether we partake in them or not, we're going to need to learn how to deal with them. So if they happen to take parts of the industry away, or people prefer the synthetic voices for maybe shorter news blasts or telephony prompts, whatever it may be, we need to evolve in our industry to kind of work alongside that. And maybe what we need to do is hone our performance skills in another genre. The first thing that I always tell my students is make sure that you are acting, and you are acting as human as possible. Because that's exactly the opposite of what the synthetic voices are at this moment. So we can offer a product that is unique to us. So work on your performance skills so that you can be more human than ever. And I think that that's one way to face the challenge. And also for any technological piece of this business that you're scared of or not familiar with, take a class. Lau: Yes.  Anne: I mean, educate yourself or outsource that. Just make sure that you understand enough about the technology so that when you outsource that you can manage the person that is taking care of your technology. And I'll say one thing probably most people like to outsource is their website. I know what a website is capable of. I know what I want in a website, but I don't make websites. And so for that reason, I hire someone to help me. But I know enough about that website that I can log into the website, I can go and make tiny changes on the content. Or if I don't know how to do that specifically, I have a methodology to make those changes. Right? I have somebody who can make those changes, and then I have a backup to somebody that can make those changes, so that I am never going to be at a loss for controlling that technology. Lau: Hmm. I love that. And at the end of the day, if you wanna be a voiceover talent, just the bottom line is, like you have to create a home studio. You don't -- Anne: Oh yeah.  Lau: -- have a choice anymore. The industry standard. The best practices that you're gonna have. Even minimal, but some sort of recording system at home that you can feel good about, you can feel strong about, you can troubleshoot, you can upgrade. I think the days of relying on going to other studios and having engineers do everything for you is passed, is passé. So as a VO talent, it's really a necessary evil, so to speak that, you know, enough base knowledge that you could cut an audition for yourself and feel good about it.  Anne: Yeah. Well, and just not worry that you don't have good sound. I had a wonderful series on BOSS audio with Tim Tippetts, and just the simple fact -- now he built this studio, custom built this studio for me. And I walk into it every day understanding that this is solid. I am not going to have any type of environment acoustic issues in this studio. The only thing that might go wrong at this point, 'cause the structure is solid and the structure is built. And that is a major level of fear, I think, for most talent when they get into the industry, is getting that space, right, acoustically sound and ready to produce broadcast audio. And so really, I can walk into the studio every day, and I don't have the fear that my environment is not working for me. And that is a huge relief. That's a huge relief. And that was something, again, I outsourced someone to do for me. And it took care of that fear. It alleviates the fear of that now. Now my fear is that, I don't know, maybe my cable is bad or my microphone for whatever reason. But again, that's another technological part that I understand that if something happens to that technology, I know how to fix it. Or if I don't know how to fix it, I can replace it with the backup. And I go back to -- I know I've had an episode prior to this with Erikka J about backups and technology and back up your backups. And that's always a good thing so that you're never in a spot where you cannot complete the job. And that causes fear. That causes stress. Lau: It does. And having people on your team, whether they're contractors that you can call in  people that you can delegate to help fix things. Oh yeah. Uh, folks, you know, that are reps that can call in for technical advice. Like you have to have that ready to go.  Anne: Oh yeah.  Lau: You can't wait until something goes wrong.  Anne: Absolutely.  Lau: Right? So, and it to alleviate the stress, alleviate the fear. I got another one for you. How about the fear of your voice, your vocal apparatus not working well? Anne: Oh yeah.  Lau: Not being able to have longevity  health or having health issues, related issues like allergies or asthma or anything coming into play. Because after all, we're just, and there's so many things in the world -- yeah. Acid reflux. We're human beings in the world. So we have to live every day and figure out, okay, how do I live as clean as I can? How do I take care of my body and my mind? How do I do all that? But when something goes wrong, see, this is where professional actors and singers really have it over the average person, like if sick with the flu or God forbid Covid, or they have a terrible allergy attack, they know how to overcome it. They have techniques. They have herbal remedies, they know what vocal rest means. They know how to work through the sickness. Whereas the average person doesn't. So I think that there's a fear in folks at all ages that, oh, am I gonna be able to get through a two or three hour session? Am I gonna be able to have quality sound from morning 'til night? Anne: Well, I think in terms of voice, am I going to be able to make a two hour session or a three -- depending on what you're doing, right, that's definitely a concern. If you're doing video games, you're doing efforts and you're really working that, that instrument hard, then there are, you know, exercises of course, that you can do to build those muscles up. And of course there are sometimes that you absolutely cannot help it if you are sick. Right? And you have a cold. And so in those cases, I think to alleviate any kind of fear that you're, you're gonna lose work, then work on those relationships with your clients. Right? So that if you are sick, we are all human. I mean, it's very understandable. And we did just say we're still going through a pandemic or we're, you know -- that's, that's very understandable. And I think that clients will be understanding if you've got a good relationship with that. And so I think to alleviate the fear there is, have good relationships with your clients and be authentic. Be human. Lau: Be human. And Anne, I actually had something happen not too long ago with one of our talents in our roster that is a wonderful talent, but he didn't make the right choice. And what was the choice? He was sick. He was sick one day. And he chose to go through a session with a client and the client listened to it. They knew he was sick, he was at his home studio so he could do this easily. And they said, we have to tell you, Lau, we're a little annoyed because he only has half of his voice. It's not what we hired and we don't know why he didn't cancel and reschedule the session. Now we got to go through it again. And he was fine. We didn't charge them more money. The talent was like apologetic. He said, I should have told you. I didn't wanna be a nonprofessional by not showing up. I said, It's not about not showing up. It's about communicating what is actually happening and allowing your client to make that choice. Let them make the choice. Anne: Oh, absolutely, your voice is your product. And so, it really becomes, at that point, I think professionally, remember that our voice is our product. And if our voice is not in good shape, you wouldn't deliver a product that is tattered and torn and worn and raspy. If you were a client, you certainly wouldn't want that. So you always have to be conscious of that fact. And that is, your voice should be in tiptop shape because that is your product. And the more professional thing is to, yeah, when it's not in tiptop shape, have that relationship with the client to say, look, I'm not feeling well and I just wanna give you a heads up. And I do that all the time with my clients, and they're very, very understanding. I've had clients wait like weeks, like a good couple of, if they have the time. I mean, if it's not a thing where you have to do a live session and it has to be done yesterday, but I've had some clients that have been able to wait a couple weeks, push things out because they value the product. They value the product that I give to them. And so, again, I think that that's something that to alleviate any kind of fear, work on those relationships, nurture those relationships, and yeah. You're gonna be fine. What other things, Lau, do you think voice talent are afraid of these days? Lau: Uh, well, I would say, uh, many voice talent create a healthy fear of doing jobs or taking copy that they would consider to be outside of their wheelhouse. They would consider to be not as comfortable for them. If they're like, let's say they're commercial talent, and they're typically doing commercial work and that's what they do. Sometimes they're not as open to the idea of doing, say character work or animation. 'Cause they say, I don't really do that. That's not in my wheelhouse. Or, I don't really do a lot of narration work. I'm not that kind of actor. I'm not that kind of person. Or they'll even say, I'm not an actor at all. I'm just a voiceover talent.  Anne: Yeah. Yeah.  Lau: Right.  It's so funny to me to say that because I consider every voice of talent an actor to some degree. Anne: Absolutely. Me too. Lau: But there is a fear of auditioning or submitting for jobs that are not within your branding or not within the kinds of jobs that you're typically getting. Like something bad will happen. They'll, they won't hire me and they'll call, call me a bad talent. I get, I won't get work in other areas as well. That's a fear. Anne: Yeah. I think absolutely, to stretch yourself outside of your comfort zone. And there's lots of great coaches out there that can help you if you want to explore a different genre and get good at that genre. And even with auditions, I always try to go with my gut when I see auditions and I say, okay, that feels like it's my wheelhouse. But yeah, every once in a while I'll look at an audition, I'll say, well, what the heck? Let's give it a shot. And it's so funny because a lot of times the ones that I just say, well, let me give me a shot, surprisingly, I'll do well or I'll get the gig. And so I think, you know, stretching outside of your comfort and you click that send and you're like, oh my God, I hope again, if you ever had one of those turn around on you, I think that would give you the confidence to stretch yourself outside of your comfort zone. I'm gonna name something else that I'm pretty sure a lot of talent, even talent that have been around for a while and have done this for a while, is negotiating a job if they don't have an agent on their behalf. Right? Or raising their rates. Right? Or sticking to their rates.  Lau: Wait a second, that's the best ever.  Anne: Right, right?  Lau: Especially for women, but yes. Yes for everyone.  Anne: And people always say to me, well, I don't know what to charge. Okay. First of all, we are entrepreneurs, right? I mean, in reality it is our business. And so it is up to us, unless we've got an agent working on our behalf, but for any other jobs, let's say I do a lot of non-broadcast, e-learning, corporate, you know, explainer, that style where I work directly with the client, and half the time, of course I have guidelines, right? There's always the GVAA rate guide, there's my own guidelines that I've been working with since I started. But if this is something new or it's slightly different and there's nothing, there's no standard written, I'm pretty much pulling that price out of the air, out of the air. Lau: Out of the hat. Anne: Out of the hat. And I'm always kind of verging on more than I think because I wanna start the negotiation high so that I can come down to the price where I feel like would be fair. And so, just so you know, we can be in this business for, I've been in the business for like, gosh, oh my God, 16 years already. And sometimes I'll have a price that I'll just have to pull out a thin air. And I'm guessing at it. And so know that, guys. I don't want you to think that all the pricing is all secure and within a chart. Sometimes I am just winging it. And once you get the client that says, okay, great, that sounds, when can you have it by then? That gives you the confidence to just continue on the negotiation battle. So always, always know that you are worth money. Please do not negotiate a low rate because you feel that you're new or that you feel that you don't have the experience because you have invested in your business and therefore you are worth the money. And so, yeah.  Lau: And you said the magic word, invest. I was thinking there's a fear of investment.  Anne: Mm. Oh gosh, yes. Yes. Lau: I'm terrified.  Not me, really. I'm just saying I'm terrified of spending money on coaching or scared of spending too much money on my studio, or I'm afraid of how much a microphone will cost. And there's a lot of fear around, how much do I need to invest? And you have to think of it like, is it a cost or is it an investment? Is there an ROI in this? Am I really expecting money to come back? Or is this just a sinkhole of just like throwing money in where I don't know what's gonna happen at the end of the day? So having vision about my investment and my return, and really being very mindful that that's what I want to have happen. Does it mean it will happen? No. But what it means is you're focusing your brain and you're focusing your intentional energy on that execution. So it's more likely that you'll have a positive outcome than going, but I'm afraid. I'm afraid I don't have the money, and I'm afraid, I'm afraid. So that was one thing. You know, the other thing too that came to my mind, Anne, was success. Anne: Oh my gosh.  Lau: A lot of people are afraid of success. Anne: Totally agree with you there. And I, and I wanna just say like for myself personally, right? There comes a time --you cannot grow -- I can attest to this, you cannot grow without investment and you cannot grow without a little bit of fear. And so the investment for me has come to the point where I am one person. I can only physically do so many things within the 24 hours of the day. Right? And so when I want to grow beyond that, then I have to think about outsourcing. I have to think about that as an investment in my business so that somebody can help free up some time for me so that I can do more voiceover jobs. I can coach, or I can do whatever it is that I wanna do to grow my business.  And then I have to be at the point where I say, all right, I have this level of success that I'm at now. I feel comfortable. I'm able to support my household. I'm feeling good. And just when it hits that point, I say, all right, what's next? Right? How am I going to grow? How am I going to expand? And I'm always get to these levels, right? And I always try to address it. I'm gonna say on an average quarterly, right? Within the year, what's next for me? And I right now am at this point right now where, what's next? And so I know what has to come next for me in order to continue to grow. I think about it, I'm like, okay, I have to go through a series of steps to get there and it's gonna be a lot of work. And I just go, oh God, I had so much work, but I have to get through it.  Once I get through it, I can then bump myself up another level. Right? So I just consider myself going up that stairway to more success. And so I know it's coming up the road for me ahead, and I know that it's going to be a lot of work, and it makes me tired right now. But I do know that if I don't do it, I will not grow, and I will not succeed further. And to me, I always love a good challenge, I think, I think the one thing for me, why I love entrepreneurship and why I love this business so much is that it allows us to just go as high as we absolutely can. There's no limit, right? Lau: Yeah.  Anne: There's no limit. I mean, and, and that's the thing. You have to allow yourself to think big and to think, wow, there really isn't a limit to how much I can grow. And to me's a game. It becomes a game. You know, a challenge. And I love a good challenge. For me, that's how I get through it, instead of the fear, right? I consider it to be a challenge and a game. And it's a game that I play with myself. So I'm not in any sort of danger of necessarily hurting other people because it's me. It's a game I play against myself. I mean, that's out of myself and working myself to craziness. But that's my whole goal, is to not have to work so much. And so that is going to help me to grow.  Lau: Right. And who's keeping score? I mean, at the end of the day, it's really about, you. You're keeping score. You're the one who's setting your goals, how you wanna achieve throughout the year and throughout your quarters. You're really the one who's paying attention to that because it's skin in the game. You have the most vested interest in the success of your business. And I always say, be careful what you wish for. You may get. Because if you get it, meaning if you get that job that you're auditioning for, you get that creative studio that you always wanted, well, now what's next? It doesn't mean you can lay back and chill and bask. It means like you have to push a little more. You have to move a little faster. You have to intensify your goals. In a sense that ceiling is just not even there. It doesn't even exist.  Anne: Exactly. Exactly. It just keeps moving up. So. Lau: Keeps moving up, right? Keeps moving up. Anne: Yeah. Love it. Great conversation. So BOSSes out there, face those fears. Fear is good. I believe fear, it leads to growth. Education, knowledge is power. And know that you're not alone.  Lau: I love that. You're never alone. Even when you're in your booth, you're never alone. Like who are you connecting to? You're always connected to someone who also has your vested interest in mind because they wanna have a successful product, they wanna have a successful process, and they want to have a relationship with you. So always consider the positive versus the negative, and that's gonna help you alleviate those fears along the way.  Anne: Yeah. Well, great discussion. BOSSes. Fear, you can conquer. We have the faith in you. So I'd like to give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and connect like a BOSS and conquer those fears. Find out more at ipDTL.com. And also from our other sponsor, 100 Voices Who Care, here's a chance for you to use your voice to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to find out more. All right, guys. BOSSes, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye. Lau: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Nothing in this industry happens fast. You have to trust that things will happen when they're supposed to. In this episode, Anne & Lau share how trust can help you build your business and a strong, reliable network. Don't sabotage relationships before they even begin—if someone shows interest in working with you, take their word at face value and don't let fear of failure keep them at arm's length! Give yourself permission to learn and make mistakes along the way so that you can grow as an artist and a person. We all want our business to succeed, but sometimes things don't go as planned. That's ok! Negative experiences should teach you something and give you an opportunity for growth. Bosses, don’t worry. You can trust Anne & Lau to lead you in the right direction. Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS Podcast and the Business Superpower series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I have with me Lau Lapides. Woo! Lau: Hey everyone. Good to see you, Anne. Anne: Special guest, co-host. Oh my gosh, Lau, I have had the best time having you as co-host. Lau: I love it. I think you and I are like sisters from another mother. I love it. I think we got so much to talk about. So much to say. We have a great rapport. Anne: We do. We do. And you know what? I really have a lot of trust in you, and that is something that I feel, when people are starting off in the industry, they need to find someone to trust, a tribe, a coach, a mentor, in order to help them get through the process. And I think trust is a huge ask for the talent, but I think it's absolutely necessary for success. Lau: It is. I mean, you have to trust someone at some point in order to further your education and further your career. And really be able to also kind of ignite personalized relationships where you're forecasting to people, the right people, well-selected people, that you're gonna share thoughts that are authentic. You're gonna be helpful in their journey. You're gonna share things that are uncomfortable. I mean, that's really how we gain trust. And it doesn't happen overnight. It really is time. It takes time to gather trust. Anne: Yeah. And I think a big factor in trust is obviously the fear that seems to be very prevalent when people start off in this industry. The fear that they're not good enough, they're not gonna be successful. And I think it leads them to just not trust in themselves, not trust in other people they might have worked with or people on the internet. And I understand that in a lot of ways where you've gotta be careful, but I feel as though if you have a member of the tribe, you've got to just invest in that trust, to hope that they're guiding you in the right direction. Now, that is not to say that you should not educate yourself, right, so that you know who you can trust. Right? And kind of feel your way around that. And if you do not trust, I feel that it's going to inhibit you from being successful in the industry, because otherwise you're not gonna have someone that's gonna help build you back up or build your confidence up when you're feeling low, when maybe you're not getting the jobs that you're expecting. And I think a lot of times people make a big investment, let's say, in coaching or in a demo, or workshops, whatever they do. And immediately if they don't get a job, because they're not familiar enough with the industry, they immediately question themselves. They question the capabilities for anything and immediately feel like they need to get a return on their investment in the next week. Which I wish I had gotten a return on my investment in the following week after I did my training. But this is a process. And not only do you have to trust in yourself, you've gotta trust in the process. And that means researching coaches, researching talent out there in the industry that seem to have had some level of success. Reading -- I'm all about reading, reading, reading -- reading books, joining web forums, and finding out who are the respected people in the industry. And doing that education first. I mean, I know in the beginning when you first start coaching and creating a demo, and there's lots of people that talk about, oh, there's scammers out there that are gonna take all your money and create a demo, and then it's not gonna be a good demo, or it's not gonna be a professional demo. And I think that a lot of people are scared about that. But I also think that you can take the matters into your own hands. And again, research, research, research, research, join groups, read books, find the people that are well respected in the industry. Lau: Absolutely. I do think there's a level of trust that you have to have in yourself that is a leap of faith.  Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: Okay. So let's say you're starting out, Let's say you're doing your research, you're reading, you're in the industry mags, and you know what's going on with conferences and you know what the best practices are, so to speak. But you need time to have that reveal itself, right? What we see and what we read and what we know and what we hear isn't always our truth through our own experiences. So you have to trust that you are smart enough, you're motivated and thoughtful enough. You're focused enough that you're gonna start to put your trust, engage who that tribe is as you put it together, and not get upset when you put your trust into something or someone and it doesn't work out, because that is called experience. And experience is not always happy and fun and positive. Sometimes it's making a mistake. And we have to learn from those mistakes. We have to work through those and not make those again and say, wow, I'm glad I made that mistake, because now I know it doesn't work and what I shouldn't be trusting in the industry, and really move through it. But if we never give our trust anything, if we're never 100% all in and know that we've got skin in the game, then we never really tested our theories, our methodologies, and our teachings. We never really tested it because we weren't willing to give it over 100% to see what great things can come of it. Now, I don't know about you, but like you're super successful. I'm successful. A big part of that success is testing, hit or miss experimentation. And what happened to the joy of trying things, of experimenting?  Anne: Absolutely.  Lau: It's like so many people need to have this guarantee from the start. What I'll save. Anne: The safety net. It's like the trophy. They need the trophy. Right? They need the trophy right away. And the thing of it is, is, and Lau, you and I have spoken about this, my overnight success took me many, many, many years. Right? And if you're just getting into the industry and you're upset because you're not booking a week after you submitted your demo or started auditioning, trust in the process, give it time. When I talk with my students, I try to tell them that it is not an overnight process, that it does take time. But I still feel as though some people just have to live that or experience that. There's a lot of people who never get past the making a demo stage, because I believe they do not trust in the process. They don't give themselves enough of a chance to grow and to grow into the industry and start to see that success, which is not gonna happen tomorrow. I'm sorry, you're not gonna get that prize gig tomorrow.  And it's okay. It is okay. You just need to again, have trust, have faith in yourself. I'll tell you what, Lau, I am a big believer, and anybody's listening to this podcast knows that I trust my gut. I live my life by my gut. And I run my business by my gut too, believe it or not. If it doesn't feel right, then I'm taking more steps to educating myself on to maybe why it doesn't feel right or what I might do to change it. As you mentioned before, just kind of take those little steps and change direction if you need to. Lau: That's right. That's exactly right. And just be okay with that. Be okay with not knowing. Be okay with sometimes trusting the wrong person or the wrong process or whatever, because that's how we grow, that's how we learn, that's how we shape it up. The problem comes in where you trust something, it doesn't work your way, and then you keep trusting it, and you keep trusting it. And you never learn from that pro -- You don't redirect and pivot.    Anne: Or -- yeah, exactly. You don't redirect or pivot or you simply let it scare you away. Right? Because you've been burned once. Lau: Yeah, or shut you down. Anne: I will have students that have come to me that have not had positive experiences with coaches or their demo production or whatever it might be, and it will make them very shy and very wary to continue moving on. And I always say, use those experiences, like it's okay, like you said, it's okay to maybe the person that you thought you trusted didn't turn out to be what you thought. Right? It's okay, learn from it. Turn that into a positive experience and learn from that and grow from that. And so I'm always trying to tell people don't beat yourself up over it. I mean, honestly now you know. And so boom, that was a wonderful lesson.  I'm always trying to learn lessons from things that didn't go quite right or what people might perceive to be failures. And I don't even like to think of the word failure. I just say, oh, okay, well that didn't work out. So what can I learn from that's, and how can I grow from that? And that will turn most of those experiences into a positive one for me so that I can continue to grow and progress forward. Lau: That's right. And be smart about how you trust. It's not about just, I trust this. I'm putting my trust in this. It's like, how do I trust? That famous presidential, you know, trust, but verify. Verify. Meaning do the due diligence, do the homework, make sure as best as you can, is this person who they say they really are? Is this process what it really represents? Is there testimonial? Are there accolades? Are there honors that I should be aware of that build the ethos, build the credibility so I can trust even more? I wanna do some verification. It doesn't mean that I'm putting them in the hot seat under a light bulb, duct taping them to a chair and grilling them. It just -- right? You and I've both been through that a lot. Right?  Anne: Exactly. Lau: You know, like a whole FBI scene. It's not that, but there is an intelligence in saying, let me do some background check. Let me just Google, like everyone has Google. Why can't you just go on Google and see, is this person have bad reviews or seem dangerous or I don't know. But the point is, do that little bit of homework to verify, to make you feel that much more comfortable in who you're starting to put your trust into.  Anne: Yeah, absolutely. And if you cannot take that little tiny leap of faith and then see where that goes, right, and grow from it, you're gonna be stagnant and you're gonna sit there with demo in hand and never really progress any further.  Lau: That's right.  Anne: But I will say over and over again, and you as -- Lau, with an agency in, in casting for so long, you must know how long it can take when somebody's first getting out into the industry to actually start being consistent in booking jobs. And even when you are consistent in booking jobs, every one of us has a time where there might be a lull in our business and really that is the place when you feel, oh my gosh, why am I not getting any work? I must suck. You know what I mean? Or that's it. I've gotta get out of the industry and they panic. Right? So many people panic and just trust the process. Again, find those people that you do trust that can help you through those times where you are starting to mentally -- I think the mental panic here can really be something that inhibits successful voiceover actors. And sometimes they'll say, well, alright, that's cool because more work for me. Lau: Yeah. . Absolutely. There's an ebb and flow to everything. You know? There's ebbs and flows, highs and lows to every single business out there. It's not possible to be super successful in making tons of money every single day or getting jobs every single day. That would be an unrealistic expectation. Anne: Lau, let me stop you right there. I love that you brought that up lot. Do you think that the majority of talent book something every single day? Lau: , I don't know anyone that books something every single day.  Anne: Yeah.  Lau: I just don't know anyone. And I know a lot of really busy VO talent that are recording all the time, but are they booking every single day? No, they're not.  Anne: Yeah.  Lau: They're editing, they're catching up, they're marketing, they're doing retakes, they're visiting their mom and dad, you know, but they're not booking every single day. That would be -- Anne: Right? Lau: I won't say impossible, but I'll say it's highly improbable.  Anne: Even people that are working every day, let's say you're, you know, in the promo genre or that kind of thing, where they say there's the golden handcuffs. Right? You are probably working, right, that same network job that just comes in every single day. I'm on a lot of telephone rosters, so I work every single day doing telephony, but it's because I'm on a roster that I expect that work, and I know that work's coming.  Lau: That's right.  Anne: But acquiring new work and getting new clients every single day, I agree with you. I don't know many people -- I think it's highly unlikely. And so that's one, I think misconception that people new to this industry might have. Like, oh, well, okay, I need to make so much. I remember constructing it like this, I would like to make so much money per month. Right? $10,000 a month. So what would it take to make $10,000 a month? Right? For 12 months, that's your six figures salary. So what will it take to book $10,000 a month? Well, if I could book 10 corporate jobs in the month, right, and do that consistently, then yeah, I'll have no problem.  Now that may or may not happen for a while. Right? That could happen very sporadically. You could get a few corporate jobs. You could get 10 jobs, 20 jobs in one month, but maybe the following month you may get one. And so because of that difference, right, in terms of consistency, that is where I think most people start to panic and lose their trust in the process of what this industry is all about. And again, it's kind of life as a freelancer, I like to say entrepreneur, right? But freelancer is the same thing. Right? So we don't know where our next job is coming from. And that really has to be where your trust in the process lies, or trust in a mentor, trust in your people that you talk to in your accountability group. Trust that the process will work out and that it will be okay. Lau: And the truth is, we don't see what's happening in the background of anyone's world. So those folks that you're perceiving are booking every day have tons of work in the pipeline. So they're lining up the pipeline of work like last year, like five years ago. Like it's not the booking of today that they're reaching out today; it's the reach out oftentimes from months, if not years ago, that are just landing through and coming through on their pipeline. So in essence, they've done the footwork -- Anne: They've planted the seeds. Lau: -- done the preliminary work, they planted those seeds to keep that pipeline full so that it looks to the outside world like they're booking every day. And you know, the other thing I want to say too, Anne, was that the trust of everything -- when I think about how many of our systems in our world are on trust systems, like even just going into a restaurant, you're ordering food and drink and all this stuff, and they are trusting you that you have money to pay for that. They're giving you the product first and saying, devour this, you're never gonna give this back to us. We know it and we're gonna trust that you're gonna pay for that. Right?  So we live in this trust system where we're providing a product, we're providing a service and we haven't been paid for anything. We're just trusting that if I have an agent, they're gonna work for me to get that money. If I don't, I'm gonna work with that client, and I'm gonna have that professional faith that they're gonna send me a check. Anne: And you have to have faith, yes, that your agent's gonna be doing that work for you. And let's say if you did not book through an agent, right -- I negotiate a lot of work myself -- I actually will have stated in my quote, prepayment is preferred, especially if they're a new client, an electronic payment, by the way. But if I am working with a big client and I issue an invoice, I am trusting that they're going to pay me within the the 30, 60, sometimes 90 days.  Lau: That's right.  Anne: And that is a trust in the process. Lau: That's right. And it's scary.  Anne: Yeah.  Lau: It's really scary because once in a while it doesn't happen.  Anne: Yep. Lau: Once in a while we get burned. And I'm just here to tell you guys, if you get nothing out of this podcast, just know that in your lifetime there will be times that you will get burned, and not to let that jade or make it simple (?) or scare you. You just know that sometimes you run into a bad situation. And what do you learn from that? What did you take away from that? Anne: Exactly.  Lau: What do you know now? Rather than getting angry and bitter, I'm gonna get better from that situation. Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. Lau: But most situations are just not gonna be that. They're just not. They're gonna be trustworthy. Anne: And I think there's just the trust in so many things that you don't even think about. Right? I had trust in the technology, Lau, on that last podcast that it was gonna record us and it didn't. But that's okay. I'm not bitter. I am not bitter. We learned from that, didn't we? Right? So now we know what to do. Yeah. Now we know what to do. You know, it happens all the time. So I know that just seemed like a silly little example, but it was a true example of us turning that into a learning lesson. And I'm actually grateful that it happened because now I know what to do to alleviate it from happening again. And I'm grateful for that. Lau: And watch this, Anne. I'm actually gonna demo what the listener can do when they're in a situation where they're ethos -- I love using the word ethos. It's like a character building trust that we build as people and as professionals. When they feel it lowering, it's going down just a little bit. Because something wrong happens, something bad happened. So in the moment you could make a decision by saying something, and I'm really gonna say this to Anne, but demo it in front of the listening audience.  I'm gonna say, Anne, that happened because that was my fault on our side. We didn't realize we weren't going through Chrome as we typically do. We somehow lost our Chrome app, and we just logged right into the link without remembering that we have to go through Chrome to record on Riverside. So what does that cause? There's a cause and effect to that whole trust system. Anne now has to go to her engineer and pay them a little extra to fix that and save that problem. So how do we restore trust? Anne: There you go.  Lau: Because the morality, the morality is I am going to offer to pay that engineer to do that because that shouldn't be on you. Because that was on our end. That was our fault. It wasn't intentional; it was just a mistake. But see, this is how you wanna treat your peeps, your friends, your colleagues, your fellows. Whether they accept it, that's up to them. But to have the due diligence that saying, oh, too bad, I made a mistake. Go figure it out. It's like, well no, let me sort of rectify that. Let me see if I can offer something to make that better, to repair that. Is it life or death? Not life or death, but in the course of your relationships, attention to detail is really, really important. And when things go wrong and you make a mistake, 'cause we're just human beings, try to rectify it. Try to fix it, try to offer. Anne: Well, that's a wonderful example. And I like that. And I'll see you that offer because I appreciate the offer. Right? Our relationship, I value our relationship and I appreciate that offer. But I have already put that into my learning bin, right, where I've learned where I need to make sure that my guests on the podcast need to make sure they're going through Chrome in order to record the video and the audio. So that's great. So I politely decline and say thank you for the offer. But yeah, it's, it's a thing. And so I feel good about it. And so I want BOSSes who are just getting out into the industry and feeling scared or having expectations that may or may not correspond with what's actually happening to understand that, number one, just put that trust in it. If it doesn't turn out the way you expect, make sure that you think about what it is that you can do to learn from that. Lau: Absolutely. There's a learning curve in everything. Even if it's highly uncomfortable, something really bad occurs, whatever, just take the learning lesson and walk away and say, good. Now I'm gonna take this into my future relationships. I'm gonna know who I can work with and who's not appropriate to work with. And just move on from it. And that will ensure your level of trust in the next person. In other words, you won't be carrying your garbage, you won't be carry your trash from what went wrong here into the future. Anne, I think we're doing therapy. I think this is gonna save a lot of marriages to be honest with you. Right? 'Cause you wanna carry your last boyfriend's garbage into the new boyfriend's garbage.  Anne: That's right. That's right. Lau: Yeah? You wanna -- Anne: That's right. Lau: -- have a clear slate. That person, that client if you will, or that colleague, they have a right to earn your trust fully. It's not fair to them to place all the stuff -- because you were telling me earlier that you had a client that was having some trust issues about your services and this and that. And I'm thinking, oh, this reminds me so much of people who come in, you don't know where they're coming in from, and they just came in from all these bad relationships and experiences and they're putting it right onto you. Anne: Yep. Yep. Exactly. Lau: How do you handle that, Anne, when that happens? Anne: That's a great question. There's only so much -- I like to say, well, you know what, it's their movie, right? And so I can't let that affect me in any kind of a way or inhibit my growth. And so I will just say, well, it's their movie. They're directing it and I can help as much as I can. Just reinforce that things do not necessarily happen a day after you start in this industry and that you need to trust in the process. And other than that, other than giving that advice, I don't know of much else that I can do except to say, you know what? I'm here if you need me in the future, that's absolutely fine. I'm happy to help you through that. But I feel like if you want help and then you step back 'cause you got scared, right, then there's no other way I can really help you anymore at that point. It's gotta be your decision. Lau: That's right. And maybe that's the time, Anne, when you, and I would say to that client, you know, it's okay if this is not a good fit for you, if you need to go somewhere else. Anne: Yep. Absolutely.  Lau: Right? IE you should go somewhere else.  Anne: Right.  Lau: To work with someone that perhaps you have more trust in or whatever -- Anne: Or not. Lau: It's okay to give them permission to go.  Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Lau: Like not every client's a good client. Not every contract's a good contract. Not every job should be kept. Anne: Absolutely. And I think understanding and trusting in that gut feeling or that process again can help you to clear your mind. I like to have all positivity in my business and in my transactions and negotiations and so that will help me to clear that.  Lau: Absolutely. I got one more from the road.  Anne: Okay.  Lau: And the one I just thought of in terms of like fear and trust, 'cause they're entwined, they're they're entangled together is like the fear of not being able to trust because it's going to go bad. So in other words, it's like the Murphy's Law thing. Like I'm projecting it's not gonna go well, I'm projecting problems will happen. Manifesting. Projecting. And then it does. And then it inevitably does because you're sabotaging it. Anne: And that's the energy that you are focusing on. Absolutely. Lau: Yeah. 'Cause you're not wanting to trust or not capable of it yet or whatever. So you're gonna give it a purpose and a justification for why you can't trust it. Be careful of that. Self-sabotage kills a lot of relationships. Anne: Absolutely. Wow. Well guys, BOSSes out there, learn to trust. Take those bitty, bitty steps. Trust and learn. That's the moral I have of the story today. . Lau: Learning is good.  Anne: All right. All right. So BOSSes, I'm gonna give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. Also, if you want to make a big impact and have a very simple mission, you can find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org. All right, guys. BOSSes, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye. Lau: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Bosses, it’s callback time! After a set of fiercely talented auditions last week, Anne & Lau narrowed it down to the 5 talents they felt had something special. Manny, Aria, Josh, Nicole, and Kelly are back and ready to read. After being thrown custom directions from your hosts, these voice actors rose to the occasion, making the final decision a difficult one. Although there can only be one winner, every experience in front of an agent, producer, and casting director is valuable. You never know what kind of impression you’ll leave on them, so give it your all. The final decision came down to matching Anne & Lau’s preferences with the client’s needs, but you’ll have to tune in to find out who that is… Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Welcome everyone to the VO BOSS podcast and the Business Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I'm excited to bring my special guest co-host Lau Lapides to the program. Hey Lau. Lau: Hey Anne. Glad to be here. Anne: Lau, we had an amazing live audition podcast. I am so excited for how that turned out. Lau: Oh my gosh, I can't wait to see it. And oh, what a, what a great time that was. Yeah, great group. Anne: And, and our appreciation, you guys, BOSSes out there, if you've not heard it, go, make sure that you check it out. It was our first ever live audition podcast where we had, uh, gosh, 12 people live auditioning for, uh, a particular for Expedia and, uh, with feedback and everything. And today, this episode is all about the live audition callback. So we had five people calling back, and we are going to have them come back for another round of reads, and Lau and I will pick the winner. So get ready, BOSSes. And so without further ado, hopefully people are there in the audience, uh, in the chat. Um, we have the roster, which will be Nicole Fikes, Aria Lapides, Manny Cabo, Josh Wells, uh, and Kelly White. Okay. So if you guys are ready, the first one up to audition for us again is Nicole. And Nicole, we are asking you to do the same script, which is the script for Expedia, starting with, uh, our colors. And, uh, we would like you to give us your unique second take. Lau, any particular hints, casting directions, specs? Lau: Uh, I would love to see the most coziest warmest, most relaxed read you can do, Nicole. Nicole: Coziest. Warmest, most relaxed. Okay. All right. Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors in even more places knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Thank you. Very nice. Lau: All right. Nicole: Thank you. Anne: Yeah. I'm gonna offer one little bit of redirection. Um, can I hear the end? Um, give me a little more, I, I'm gonna say a little more punch on in even more places, in more places. Um, and, and I really wanna hear finding the colors, come, bring that home to me. Um, a little bit of a, of a smile. More of a smile at the end, 'cause you got a great deal. Nicole: Yeah. Okay. And so still warm and fuzzy but just kind of a little bit more emphasis on the colors and even more places kind of line? Anne: Yeah. And you can just pick it up at so we can go find our colors. So you don't need to do the whole thing. Yeah. Nicole: Okay. So we can go find our colors in even more places knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Thank you. All right. Lau: Super nice. Nicely done. Thank you, Nicole. Nicole: Thanks. Lau: Love it. Anne: Now, in a real audition, Lau, how -- now in terms of if people are late or they're not connecting or, you know, there's -- I'm sure there's a grace period, I mean, everybody's human. So if there are tech issues or if somebody didn't hear that they're being called back at the precise time, how much time typically would you say casting directors will wait? Lau: Um, you know, I don't know. It's not like -- I don't think it's a hard and fast rule. I think it depends on the relationship they have with whoever's sending them in, whoever's submitting them, and if they know the talent themselves. The rule of thumb, generally speaking, is like, the less they know you and then, and the less rapport they have, the less they're gonna have patience for you and the less they're gonna wait. But here's the interesting thing, and I, I wanna share this with the folks in the background, 'cause again, they're not seeing any of the tech stuff that's going on. I just received a text right now from Aria who said, hey, could you please give me a second? I need to reset it and reboot. I would say in general, people don't like waiting, so they'll skip to the next person. And you know, as a courtesy, they will come back to you most of the time because they wanna find a good person. They don't wanna -- Anne: And that's, and that's fine. And I will look, I'll make the call here if Manny is available. Uh, you know, if Aria can't get back, Okay. Um, we can certainly take Manny and wait, you know, for later to, to get Aria on, which is fine with me. Lau: That's how, that's how it would be because if we were in a paid studio space by the hour. Anne: Yeah, exactly. Lau: We don't wait, wait for anyone. We just go on to the next person. Anne: Right. Uh, because yeah, this studio's expensive, darn it. . Lau: And you know, as, as we're, as we're saying this, the talent is emailing me because I have a direct rapport with the talent and she's saying, could you please have someone else go while I'm doing the tech setup? Anne: There you go. Lau: So I don't hold you up? See, that's exactly pro stuff. Anne: Perfect. All right, Manny, welcome back. So we're looking for your unique second read. Manny: My unique second read. Anne: You were super warm the first time. Manny: Okay. Anne: So let's, uh, let's hear something different. Manny: Okay. Let's do something fun. Anne: Okay. Manny: here we go. Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors in even more places, knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Thank you. Lau, any redirection there? Lau: I have a quick redirect just because I, I'm getting to know Manny and loving your sound. Now I would love to hear you deliver this as a standup comedian. . Manny: Standup comedian. All right, that sounds good. That's fun. Here we go. Our colors have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you could save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we go find our colors in even more places, knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. . Anne: Nicely done. Lau: So good. Anne: Yeah, Lau: So good. Anne: Nicely done for, for doing that without a real joke in the script. So that was good. You channeled. And what I liked about that is that you channeled, uh, the comedic into the read even though there was nothing comedic necessarily in the script. So yeah, nicely done. Thank you. Manny: Mom, I'm an artist. I'm doing artist stuff, Mom, come on. . Anne: See? There you go. Manny: Killing me. Thanks, ladies. Anne: Thank you, Manny. Anne: And, and even that little like, improv bit at the end there, nicely done. Lau: So good, so good. Anne: That's a way to leave a nice, uh, remembrance, you know, in my brain. So love that. Lau: Anne, could I make a quick point that I meant to say before, but I didn't say before? Um, I wanted to make the point to everyone who's coming in, but also anyone who's listening in that even though this is a mock audition under educational umbrella, you are actually auditioning every single time you're in front of an agent, a producer, casting, or even coaches. And it's because we're all so connected to work all the time. So case in point, I'm already thinking of work for Manny right now. I'm already thinking of potential representation for him right now because it doesn't matter that it's a, a podcast or a class or a course or a coaching. What matters is we're actually having the real connection and the real stuff. So never like mark through like a dancer might mark -- do it full out 'cause whoever you're with, may be the next person to help you work. Anne: You've planted the seed, right? Lau: Yes. Yeah. Anne: You've planted the seed, so, excellent. Yes. Aria, so wonderful to have you here. We are ready for you. Now we, so I know last time we had thrown that wrench in the, in the loop there for you. Aria: Hey, that's okay. Anne: A completely new script. Aria: Yeah. I enjoy that. Anne: And so and so now because you, you know, were really a cold read there -- Aria: Yeah. Anne: Let's give us the most to spec read, warm, non-announcery, not deliver -- uh, you know, nothing, nothing performy, and tell us that story. Lau, any additional direction? Lau: Um, yes. I would like you to do two things at once. I'd like you to care immensely about what you're talking about. And I also want you to not give a shit about it at all. . There you go. Aria: . Oh, you sort of a birch tree. Anne: That's exactly what I was looking for too, Lau, perfect. Aria: I love that. I love that. That's like my whole thing, right? I care so deeply, but I also don't care at all. Okay. Our colors. See, they have a way of finding us wherever they are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% adding a hotel or flight, so we can find our colors in even more places knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Bravo. Nicely done. Uh, way to take direction. I heard both care and not care in there at the same time. Aria: I'm good at that. Anne: Really nicely done now. Aria: Thank you. Anne: . That was the, Okay, so now that you can care and not care, uh, let's just give us uh, something completely different. A wild take from you. One more. Yeah, I got you. A wild take from you. Aria: Okay. Lau: I loved it. And also one more thing, be very careful of, I know you're not in a soundproof space right now. Be very careful of excess noise 'cause you actually clapped at the end. You did something to make noise. So just be careful of, you know, hitting something or any excess noise. Aria: Be careful of using your body, hitting something, excess noise. Got you. Echo. Our colors. They have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with the Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% adding a hotel and a flight, and even more places, you know, knowing you got a great deal. Expedia, ah, made to travel. Anne: Perfect. Let's hear that again. You missed a line. Aria: Yeah. Okay. Okay. So let's hear that again. Aria: Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever they are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors in even more places knowing that we have a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Thank you. Lau? Lau: Yeah. I wanna make a comment about this. And again, it's like that oxymoron kind of thing. On one hand I love that choice and I loved how you, how quickly you did it. You didn't care. You just, you just, it was that improv in you. You just did it. You went 100% and I loved that. And actually you had a sort of European amorphous kind of non-real, real thing going on, which I like. Aria: Yeah. Lau: But just from an educational perspective for everyone, you wouldn't be able to do it for the most part, right? Because we are so much about particular appropriation that that authentic sound would be from somewhere and we would have to do the casting. Aria: And that's so funny that you say that 'cause I was actually originally gonna do like a Valley girl. 'Cause I was like, I feel like that would be a little bit more appropriate, at least for my age group than. Lau: No, but I think your choice was really right on in terms of the actor spirit. Anne: I think so too, in terms of making it more international. Lau: It was cool. Anne: And especially for the subject, but you're absolutely right, Lau. That's one thing that I was going to say, that maybe, you know unless you knew specifically that there was something in the specs that they were looking, and that it wasn't critical that it was, you know, from a, you know, a native speaker. Um, but I like the actor party knew that that gave that the shot for sure. Aria: Yeah. 'Cause you guys are so right, like, especially these days, like they want the authentic thing. Like I've -- even in acting, they're like, if you aren't this specific thing, I'm sorry, you can't play the role. And I'm like, it's okay, it's okay. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: So that, so I loved it, but I wouldn't be able to cast it. Right. Just like, you know. Aria: I just got that noted. Yeah. I appreciate it. All right. Awesome, guys, thank you. Lau: Thank you. Anne: Thank you. All right. That was fun. Yeah, absolutely. Um, Josh. Hi Josh. Josh: Hi. How's it going? Anne: Fantastic. Thank you. Josh: Cool. Anne: Um, Lau, any, uh, direction that you wanna give before he reads? Lau: Yeah, sure. Sure. Josh, I love what you're doing. Just give me a little bit more professor that is mixed with surfboard. So let's say he's like a, a UC, you know, LA professor that goes surfing during his lunch break. Josh: Sure. Dig it. Okay. Cool. All right. Uh, Josh Wells. Lau: I think you're a little low too. Is that me? Josh: Am I little low? Lau: I feel like your volume -- Josh: Well, I'm, I'm away from the mic, but how about here? Is this better? Lau: That's better. Josh: Okay, cool. Cool. All right. Excellent. Uh, Josh Wells, non-union. Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors in even more places, knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Lau: So I, I I mean, I felt like you're moving there, you're not there yet. You're sort of holding on. There's a held feeling to it. Like, I would want you to let it go. Let it go. Let it move forward. Ride the wave. Ride the wave. And be careful of the pausing too much. It has an unnatural feel to it. Josh: Dig it. Lau: So, you know what I'm saying? Anne: Yeah. I was gonna say, I, I missed the surfer, kind of channeling of the surfer. I wanted to, I felt like I needed a little more, more relaxed. Um, and then also I, I, I just, I have a personal issue with the word a because in a conversation it's usually you're adding a hotel and not A hotel. But that's, you know, that's just my ears here. Josh: Um, I've got the note before, I'll -- Anne: Yeah. So yeah, if you can give me a little more of the relaxed, you know, kind of like mm, you know, the half smile. Um, I'd like to hear that again. Josh: Okay. You got it. Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors in even more places, knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Thank you. I liked your ending. I like the different end on the tag there. Josh: Thank you. I appreciate it. Lau: Thanks Josh. You have a great cat that ate the canary sound. You had that really sort of wise cracking wise guy sound, which I really like a lot. I'd wanna play with that even more. Anne: Yeah. Lau: Yeah. Anne: And I would say, I would say for the, I still, you know, I'm in California, so it's the surfer, you know, I guess it's that me, I felt like you were almost leaning towards a little more like, uh, you know, Midwest sort of, Sam Elliott kind of relaxed. So work on the surfer. I think you've got it in you, for sure. Josh: Okay. Thank you. Appreciate that note. Anne: Yeah. Nice. I, I really like your tone. Thank you. Josh: Awesome. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Anne: Okay. Kelly White. Kelly: Hello, hello. Anne: Hi, Kelly. Lau: Hey Kelly. Kelly: Hey, how are you? Anne: Nice to see you back. Kelly: Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. Appreciate it. Anne: Awesome. So, uh, Lau, do you have any, any specific direction you'd like? Lau: Yeah, so Kelly, keep in mind that we're going for a slightly younger demographic. So as we love the richness and texture and heaviness of your sound, we really feel like you might be able to go in that direction of the 30s to even early 40s sound of like something that is the fast moving person, multitasking person, young, professional person raising young children. I know you know nothing about that. I'm joking 'cause I know Kelly well. Kelly has small, young children, so target that on a busy day. Kelly: Okay. Anne: But remember that your colors, I, I wanna feel the, I wanna feel the colors, uh, being, bringing you home. Kelly: Okay. Our colors, they have a way of binding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors in even more places knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Lau: Can I ask a question? If this is a busy mom, a young busy mom, what does colors mean to you? To her? What does that actually mean literally? Kelly: Um, just different aspects of probably her life. Just different things that she's doing, different things she has going on. Lau: Yeah. And the idea that she also wants to escape from it. Kelly: Gotcha. Anne: And find. Lau: And the colors of the ocean. The colors of the mountains, the greenery, the islands, the -- Anne: And find herself in more places than just her home. Kelly: Got it. That's right. Lau: Explore her, her inner world. Right? Her fantasy. Welcome to Fantasy Is -- give me more Fantasy Island, I think. Kelly: Got it. Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors in even more places knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Nice. I'd like to have -- I really like the way you slowed that down and, and emphasize the colors and you brought that home. Um, and I think knowing we've got a great -- knowing we got a great deal. I'd like to hear just that last part again so we can go find our colors in even more places knowing we got a great deal. That's like your, that's like your mom, like that's your mom's secret. Like you just got a deal, you just had a coupon, and you know what, you're excited about it. And so you're sharing that with us. Okay? And, uh, let's just, just hear that one more, one more time please. Kelly: Okay. So we can go find our colors in even more places, knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Nice. Can I ask for one more? Can I ask for an alternate on just, just the, so we can find our colors in even more places knowing we got a great deal -- can I get an ABC read of that? That would be three different ways. Kelly: Okay. So we can go find our colors in even more places knowing we got a great deal. So we can go find our colors in even more places knowing we got a great deal. So we can go find our colors in even more places, knowing we got a great deal. Anne: Thank you, Kelly. Kelly: You're welcome. Thank you so much. Anne: Nicely done. Kelly: Thank you. Lau: Thank you hun. Appreciate it. Kelly: All right. Lau: All right. That's everyone. Yeah? Anne: That is everyone. Wow. You guys all did an amazing job. This is gonna be tough. Lau: Actually, I think it's gonna be easier than we think only because we kind of get and know what that client wants. And that's gonna help us deduce down who we need to be picking along who we want to be picking. So what, what, what are your top thoughts on top, top people? Who are your top, top two? Anne: Uh, my top people I am going to say, uh, is going to be Manny, Aria and Kelly . Lau: Okay. And my top people are Manny and Nicole. Okay. So we've got Manny in common there, which is a strong choice. And, and what's even stronger about Manny is, and it's genderless. Like they don't care what gender, that's fine. But they want diversity talent. And Manny is, I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, Manny, I believe Latina and is bilingual and so can offer a Spanish read of this. So there's a, there's a super compelling reason why he may book this. Anne: And, and, and let's also talk about, you know, as we, as we mentioned before with our feedback, the fact that he was able to, uh, you know, take good direction, that's so, so very important, right, change up his read, which he did, uh, when asked. Also when leaving, when we asked him for the comedic read and I said, nice job, even though there's no comedic in there, he was actually able to leave us without sounding like too, like, you know, trying too desperate or trying to impress us. He did a line that was comedic that impressed me. And so I really liked the nuance of that and for me, that stood out and made him very memorable. Lau: Yeah. I mean, when he did that last mom thing, and I was like, wow, this guy is like really ready. He is ready Freddy. He is, There's no fooling around with Manny. Like, he's a super pro. And again, I'm saying this like, I don't know Manny at all. He was referred over to me last night for, uh, a VO Spanish audition that we got in from Miami. Unfortunately, he did not make that call because it was a time sensitive. So I said, and this happens all the time, I said, hey, I would love for you to come on our podcast. We're doing mock auditions today. He came on today in good spirit that he missed the actual audition, but not, not any fault of his. He just didn't, you know, he came in late and then came in today, and now I'm thinking, how can I work with Manny? Anne: Sure, sure. Absolutely. Lau: See, that's the way life is. So, Okay. So he's my top choice then. Anne: Yeah. He's my top choice too. And, and I'm gonna say, you know, my other picks, you know, again, I had for demographic, uh, you know, Aria, I love the voice, I love the demographic. I think that she's, she's, uh, great with that. She did give a complete different read um, you know, on either one. I liked her acting instincts there. Um, and so again, that sometimes, guys, it, it, it can turn out to be like just these tiny little things that can separate, you know, who we decide and not. And Kelly I liked because we asked her to do a lot there at the end too, and she came through with her three different reads, which I liked, uh, a whole lot. Uh, in terms of demographic too, I thought that she was appropriate. Um, I wanted, I wanted a little younger sound though that. Lau: I did too. Wonderful. I felt -- that felt just a little square, a little boxy for me. Like I, it had, again, she's got a good corporate feel. She's got a good businessy feel. Um, I wanted a-- I wanted more, it was a very staccato type of reads. I wanted more flowy-ness to it. I wanted more, more hangout energy. And also Aria was terrific, no question. I felt she's got age and room to grow. I thought she was a little too young for this one somehow. Anne: Okay. No, I would totally agree with you on that. Lau: But again, we're splitting hairs, you know? We're like going, okay, we're looking at union and non-union status, we're looking at diversity, we're looking at age, we're looking at all these different factors that separate people when really all of these people could be booked on this. Anne: Yeah. And just, you know, other words, you know, like for Nicole, Nicole really has that warm read down. I'll tell you. She really does. You know, I don't wanna leave this without feedback for all of, all of you. Um, because Nicole, you have that, that warm read. And that's something I think when you've got it, you know, go for it. When there are auditions that call for that warmth, go for them, because that seems to be a signature style for you. And then I'll, I'll say a little bit about let's see, who else was it that -- Josh. Right? Lau: And can I just say about Nicole before you leave that? See, okay. Again, listeners, you don't know what's in our head and how it's shifting so fast. Nicole was actually my first pick for this. But the, but the age, the diversity, diversity factor came in and this factor and that. See, and it shifted the game. It has nothing to do with, can Nicole do this job? Is she great and right for it? Of course she is. But there were other factors. Anne: I think everyone, every one of you could have done this job, No question. Um, and now we just talk about different factors in terms of demographic. So keep that in mind, guys, when you, when you let things get you down and you think that, oh, they didn't pick me, um, it has a lot to do with things other than just your voice or your performance. And also it could be like, well, I've worked with, uh, you know, I've worked with Manny before, and I just know he's gonna come through and give us whatever we want. Or, you know, I've worked with Nicole before, and you know, or my cousin knows Nicole and, and, and really recommends her or whatever it is, guys, don't let the fact that you don't get the gig, you know, you know, gets you down because there's so many things, so many, many factors here. Um, and like I say, all five of you I think could have done this job well. And what has shifted us, I think, is again, going back to what the, what the client wants, what we think is best for the brand. And always guys, I think if you can, can look up the brand. At this point, you've had some time with the script. Um, if you don't know the brand, go look at the brand. Look them up, Google's your friend, uh, find out who they're, who are they marketing to, What does their brand look like on the web? And try to really learn as much as you can about that brand because you're speaking on behalf of the brand. Not only are you telling the story of the script, but you're also speaking on behalf of the brand. So knowing -- the more you know, right, the more you know, uh, I think the more educated you are, the better, the better you're going to be. And sometimes, you know, it just, it comes down to, you know, splitting hairs like Lau said before. Lau: Yeah. And if you, even if you go, like, I just used this example the other day. Even if you go into like an Apple store and you're looking for a new Mac, and you go on the Mac, and you sort of test it out, you're going, okay, what's the capability of all this, all these programs? What is the this, what is the that? What does it look like? Is it easy to use? Do I like this pro -- da da da? What am I willing to pay for it? It's not that the Mac itself is not something that you could buy and love and enjoy and could work well. It's just the difference between this $1000 Mac and this $2,000 Mac, and what are the differences? So don't discount yourself or devalue yourself like, they don't like me, I'm not good enough. Whatever. No, you just may not have a quality or a program, if you will, that someone else has that we need for the job. Anne: And, and as we mentioned before, you know, there's a lot of, you know, can you sound younger? Right? That kind of thing. Like people, there's no way it, you know -- I may have a younger sounding voice given my age, but there's no way I'm going to sound millennial. Um, you know what I mean? And so like sometimes it's beyond your control also. Um, if they're looking for a gravitas, if they're looking for a texture and you don't -- I have a very clear voice. Right? If they want something that has more texture in it or rasp in it, that wouldn't be me. Um, but just knowing that can help you to just continue, I think always maintaining -- you know, be the best actor you can be because the things that you can control sometimes, like your voice, like the tone and the texture, and you know, there's lots of things you can do with vocal placement, with characters, but when it comes to this type of a read, where we're looking for authenticity, you know, it's, it's, we don't need you to go into character mode necessarily. Um, but we need authenticity. And that, that is, I think the, the, the thing that you can really concentrate on and practice and get better at as an actor. I think that's so important. Lau: And know knowing that, that self knowing of, of who you are and your brand, what your best qualities are, what your niche is, what is your niche market -- that honesty, that truthfulness will only set you free over time because it will free up a lot of your time so that you're not focusing on jobs that you're simply not gonna get because they can get the authentic read when that, you may not fall into that category. Just focus in those areas that are really your strong suits. Anne: Absolutely. Well then I think we've declared our winner, Lau. Lau: Woo. Anne: So congratulations to Manny. Lau: Yay, Manny. Anne: Um, you are our, you are our voice for Expedia. So congratulations, and thanks to all of you that came in and auditioned in our first podcast. Thanks to you guys who came back for the callbacks. I hope that you've gotten some value out of these, uh, two podcasts, and, uh, we hope to keep them coming your way. I think this could wrap up our episode. Lau: I love it. I mean, I love it. I mean, look at this, in less -- in just about two hours, little over two hours, we went through all the tech glitches, all the directions, all the preliminaries of auditions, the breakdown into the short list, then all the way up to the person who's gonna book the role. Anne: And you heard our brains, you heard us thinking and speaking out loud and casting. And so hopefully you all have a better understanding of what it takes to get cast and what's behind the casting, the casting glass. And, uh, yeah, you guys were all amazing. I really, really appreciate it. So with that being said, guys, I'm gonna give a big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipDTL.com. Lau, you're amazing. BOSSes out there, you're amazing. Thank you so much. Have a -- an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Lau: Kudos to everyone. Thanks so much. Have a great weekend. Bye. Anne: Bye. Congrats. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Get in the hot seat! Anne & Lau put on their casting director hats as they host live auditions with members of the BOSS community. There is something magical about a live audition…especially when the casting directors switch up the script at the last minute. These auditionees were on their toes, reading cold & nailing it. Anne & Lau share their favorite tips for before the audition & reflect on all that went right (and wrong). Stay tuned to hear who got a callback + will be featured in next week’s episode. Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Woohoo!. Hey everyone. Welcome to the Vo BOSS podcast and the Business Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, along with my very special guest co-host Lau Lapides. Woohoo. Lau: Hey everyone. Anne: Hey Lau. Lau: Happy Saturday. Anne: Lau, we have a extra special podcast edition today. We are doing live auditions for the very first time, and I am so excited. Lau: I love it. I love it. It's my specialty. I can't wait, Anne, can't wait. Anne: And we are going to be having people come on doing live auditions as well as people in the audience and will be joining us later on for a Q and A. So I am so very excited. Now, live auditions. Remember back when before the pandemic, when we would go into studios and audition for direct -- casting directors? Ugh. Lau: And that required us to actually see other human beings and talk to them and maybe even shake their hand? Anne: I know. And you know what? And you know what? One of the most important things about that is, is that we would not see the script until we walked into that studio. And there was always the possibility when we actually got into the room, they would change the script on us. Lau: Yes. Anne: So guess what, Lau? Lau: What, Anne? Anne: The client has changed the script. Lau: Ooh. Anne: So for our auditioners out there, and everybody in the audience, I'm sorry, but we had to throw the wrench into the, the loop of things. And we now have a different script that we will be sending to you to live audition with. So I know that Carol is out there waiting to send that new script out with new specs, and we will continue on with the auditions. And I have to say, I just love, I love the Internet and I love technology because it allows us to really do something really cool like this. Lau: Yeah. It's totally amazing. Completely amazing. And you know, just a moment on that real cold impromptu, last minute script, because I know so many voice actors are like, what do you mean? What do you mean? What do you mean? Meanwhile, you have to calm down and take a breath because so many of us are either on a pay-to-play site, or we're on hold with our agent, or we're working with casting on a project, and it's happening fast. It's coming and going really fast, and you guys are really getting used to turning things around fast. So the idea of a cold script should not put you out at all. It should be kind of like a fun challenge for you and really in your wheelhouse as a pro VO of something that really you need to be able to do. Anne: Yeah. And I can't tell you the countless number of times I've been on a live session where, you know, in the moment they're changing the script. And so you really have to be able to have those muscles to be able to quickly adapt and give the client what they're looking for. So I will say that this was a, a kind of a, a completely different script , but you know, remember we are here for educational purposes, and we hope all of you are going to really enjoy and reap the benefits of this exercise that we're going to be doing. I will go through the specs. Because this is for educational purposes, the specs for this script, uh, are open to all genders and ethnicities. And I will read the specs out loud here. Our FVO is a great actor, there we go, who can effortlessly imbue meaning and nuance into the story. They have lived a rich full life, having seen the world with all its wonders and is able to speak about their experiences with confidence and authority while their delivery has a poetic cadence . And by the way, you guys are all getting this. Um, this is done subtly and with a light touch. They never come across as dramatic, performative or as if they are laying on the gravitas. They are natural and have an air of lightness to the read that balances out their connection to the emotion perfectly. And as always, nothing smooth, nothing polished or announcery at all. . So we've got, that's a big paragraph of specs, Lau. What do you, what's your thought about specifications and when talent, you know, read the specs? Are they, you know, are they trying to match those specs exactly? Or what's important, uh, when it comes time to actually doing this audition? Lau: Great question. And I'll tell you, there's a lot of theories and philosophies about your descriptions, your breakdowns, and how to handle them. One of my favorites as a coach that I use all the time is to ask the talent to not read the specs up front. Now, this -- I'm not talking about today, because today's session is a live session, and so time is of the essence. But if you were at home and you had a day or two days to turn around an audition, it's a really interesting and telling exercise to not read the specs at all and give your takes and give a whole bunch of takes. And then go back and read the specs and see what did I bring from my point of view, from my interpretation and what kind of matches what the vision of the producer is? Am I in that realm? Am I not in that realm? Anne: Excellent points. Yeah. Let's have Michelle come on in. Hey, Michelle. Lau: Hey Michelle. Michelle: Hi. Can you guys hear me okay? Anne: We can, we can. Thank you for being the first one. I'm excited. Michelle: Oh my goodness. Okay. I just I'm excited to be here as well. Anne: Okay. So would you like a second, because you just got it? I mean, Lau and I can just discuss one other thing quickly about once you're in front of the mic and you're doing a live cold read, Lau, what is your best advice? Oh, for talent? Lau: Oh, wow. That's, that's a great question. First of all, have fun. Enjoy it. You're gonna get very few of those, right, Michelle? I mean, it's just like an exciting, energized, kind of dopamine experience. And for those of us who live on high octane junkies, we love that stuff. It's real time interaction, which I love. And so I would say make sure you're breathing. Make sure you're nice and warmed up, and you take breaks when you need to take breaks. Well, you'd be given a break after you read -- and make specific clear, active acting choices, Michelle, like, don't, don't, uh, generalize it. Don't just fly through it for the sake of time. Really make specific choices that you can change. And you should always have a good two to three really unique interpretations that you could do if they said, yeah, that's good, but can you change it out? You can change it out. Michelle: Got it. Thank you. Lau: Awesome. Anne: So when you're ready, feel free to slate and audition please. Michelle: Michelle Dillard. Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can find our colors in even more places, knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Thank you very much. Michelle: Thank you. Anne: Okay. Onto our next auditioner. Uh, on my list. I have Ryan, I hope it's Geiser. Lau: Hello. Anne: Hello, Ryan. Ryan: Oh, cool. I'm in. Lau: Hey Ryan. Ryan: Hi. Lau: Welcome. Ryan: Thank you. Uh, so I'm Ryan Geiser, non-union, MCVO. Um, our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors in even more places, knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Thank you. I was, uh, taking notes, just so you know that if I'm not responding right away, I'm taking notes. So thank you very much. Our next contestant , our next auditioner, I have, uh, Rosie, uh, Roberson? Lau: Yes. Anne: All right. Rosie. Rosie: Hello, everyone. Anne: Hello, Rosie. Nice to see you. Rosie: Well, I'm glad I got in . It's a little tricky there. Just let me know when to start. Anne: Okay. Well, we're ready. Rosie: Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with Expedia membership, you, you can save up at 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors and even more places knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Awesome. Thank you very much. Okay. Our next, I have Manny Cabo. Manny: Hey ladies, how are you? Anne: Welcome. Manny: Welcome. Anne: Thanks for, thanks for joining us. Manny: Oh, thanks for having me. This was a last minute thing. I was, I just got off Covid for like two weeks, so believe me, this is a breath of fresh air. Anne: Oh, lovely. Well, I'm glad you're feeling better. Manny: Yeah, me too. Anne: All right, well, we are ready when you are. Manny: All right, let's do this. Here we go. Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors and even more places knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Thank you so much, Manny. Awesome. Next on my list, I have, uh, Josh Wells. Josh. Josh: Hi. How's it going, Anne? Nice to meet you. Hi Lau. Anne: Hi. Nice to meet you too. Welcome. Thanks for joining us. Josh: Yeah. Super excited. Anne: We are ready when -- we are ready when you are. Josh: Heck yeah. Cool. All right. Josh Wells, non-union, Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors in even more places, knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Thank you. Thank you very much. All right. Um, up next, we should have Kelly White. Kelly White. You are next for the live auditions on VO BOSS. Kelly: Hello. Anne: Hi, Kelly. Kelly: Hi there. Nice to meet you Anne. Hi, Lau. Anne: Yes. Wonderful to see you. Kelly: Thank you. Anne: All right, well, we are ready when you are. Kelly: Okay. Kelly White. Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors in even more places, knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Fantastic. All right. Who do I have next? I have Alicia Hiller. Alicia: Hello. . Anne: Hello. Welcome. Alicia: Good -- good to meet you. Hi, Lau. Anne: Yes. Thanks for joining us today. All right, we're ready when you are. Alicia: Alicia Hiller. Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors in even more places, knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Fantastic. Thank you so much. Ah, Aria. Fantastic. Real cold read. All right. So we are ready when you are. Aria: Okay. Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever they are. And with a new Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a new hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors in even more places when we know a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. All right, cool. Thank you, guys.wor Anne: Thank you. All right. Um, and now Carole. Carole, we're ready when you are. Carole: All righty. Thank you. Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors and even more places knowing we got great deal -- knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Thank you. Carol. Just remember a lot of times we have auditions with instructions, right? It's important to just go through those instructions too. And I know like you know, there's a lot of people who like, you know, and the forms we'll talk about, well, you know, should I get SourceConnect and then, you know, or should I wait until I get my first client? And this would be one of the reasons why , why you wanna make sure you test out all those tech things first. I am proud to be able to to give you this technical -- these technical issues to help you to learn because you know, it's all our mission, right, Lau -- our mission is to educate. Lau: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I'm like, you know, I'm not a negative Nelly at all. But I'm very much a realist and I say to folks, even if you've used your program, even if you've used your booth a million times, get in there early. Because anything that can go wrong probably will. And you wanna be able to have time to troubleshoot that and not miss out. So it is a good lesson. It is. Anne: Nicole. Nicole: Hi. Anne: Hi. Welcome. Nicole: Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm excited. Anne: Yes, absolutely. Well, we are ready when you are. Nicole: Okay. Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors in even more places, knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. There you go. Anne: Thank you so much. Nicole: Thank you. Anne: I remember being in the LA area, and of course, Lau, I mean, maybe if you ever had to run into the city to do a live audition, right, traffic, traffic. And so when the audition time was slotted right, you would I -- you would pray that there was no traffic jam that would be holding you up. And if you did hit a traffic jam and you got there late, sometimes you missed the audition. Sometimes you got there way early and that therefore you had the script. So I kind of like how we're really mimicking this. You would, you know, you'd be able to practice with the script a little bit longer if they had a, if you had a line in front of you. So, you know, I feel that there's all these -- this tech issues are kind of mimicking the traffic that we would hit when we would be, you know, in the car on the way to the studio. And thankfully now, we can, you know? Lau: The, the one, the one element of this that I think is really different and unique to the circumstance, that is sometimes we can't help tech glitches when they happen, and sometimes we can. And so just kind of knowing the difference. Like I'll give you an example. For instance, if someone knows that they have to be on a laptop and have to go through Chrome in order to do the audition, it's really on that person to go on a laptop and go through Chrome. That's something that could be avoided, but all of a sudden my transmission is bad because the hurricane, all of a sudden, you know, my lights go out. You know, that's something I can't help. So I think being able to determine what I sort of have control over and I sort of don't have control over -- and then the other thing too, and this is just me, you and I are exactly alike in this way, Anne, I will leave four hours early to get to an appointment, knowing that if I'm three hours early, I can do my work, I can have coffee, I can shop, I can do whatever. I don't wanna do the last minute thing ever. Like that really stresses me out. And so just for everyone coming in, like leave yourself plenty of time. Anne: Oh, fantastic. Stephanie. Stephanie: Hi. Anne: Welcome. Stephanie: Thank you. Shall I? Anne: Thanks for being here. Yes, we are ready when you are. Stephanie: Okay. Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors even in more places, knowing we got a deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Thank you so much. So Lau, I have my notes ready and you have your notes ready. Let's talk. Lau: I do. And I am wondering whether it's now or maybe later, if we could also go over some of our top kind of rules of the road in this kind of an audition. We talked a little bit about it throughout, but like, what are our top, you know, 5, 6, 7, 8 things that we wanna see people be prepared to do or not do that happened today? Like, because here's the thing, from the talent's point of view, they see nothing. Like they know nothing and see nothing. You, I ,and Sean we're doing this whole massive thing -- and Carol -- this whole massive thing to make this session run. Anne: Right, behind the scenes. Lau: I would love to share a little bit of that so that again, we can go back to what is in my power to change and control and prepare for and what is really not. Anne: Fantastic. Lau: Are you okay with that? If we like just throw a few rules of the road in? Anne: Yeah, absolutely. So let's go ahead and start, Lau. Lau: Okay. I'm gonna start. So one of the things that is -- and again, I'm sharing this educationally, I don't want anyone to feel like we're chiding you or, or, or, you know, cussing you out or anything. It's not about that. This is about education. So that when you're on the real deal in the real scene, a lot of this will sort of dissipate, and you'll be able to work streamlined like a pro. So this entire time, and you'll see my head was down a lot when you see the video of this -- why? Not because I was falling asleep, because I was constantly texting, constantly emailing and helping people troubleshoot all along the way. Now I'm not the tech person to help you troubleshoot. I was expediting those emails and texts over to Anne, over to Sean, over to Carol where they needed to go. In the real world, you won't be able to do that. This is not the real world. This is our educational fun forum. But in the real world, there will be no one to text, no one to email, and no one to help you tech troubleshoot. So, simple things to avoid, I really want y'all to avoid is knowing the device you have to be on, knowing the, uh, uh, application or the program you need to be on, testing it through, preferably the day before rather than the day of. And also being in a solid space where you've got some audio integrity. You're not in the middle of a huge room or in a car or in a big living room to get the best quality that you can get. So those are all, in my mind, things you can somewhat control so that you can get to the next step, which is your talent, your work, your audition. Many of you couldn't get to it fully, 'cause I know most of you. You just couldn't get to it fully because you were so concerned about the tech, about all the tech stuff that was going on. Anne: And, and also, I do wanna say that those instructions were sent out a couple of days in advance, even though our, we changed the script on you. The instructions were sent out. And, and look, most people, if it's going to be a technical, you know, if it's going to be something technical like this where you're joining, uh, remotely via, you know, SourceConnect, ipDTL or some other form like Riverside, it is definitely advantageous to, uh, to test that technology out. You know, it's always wonderful to have a group of, you know, of, of colleagues that you can work with at any given time and say, hey, look, can you help me test? I mean, there's a lot of you know, forums and groups out there that say, hey, I need to do a SourceConnect test right now. Can you help me somebody test with me? So make sure that if this is something that you need to, to do, to do it in advance. And especially if, you know, a lot of times we're asked to record as well, and this could just be something maybe we're recording in, you know, through, uh, SourceConnect Now, or we're recording locally or whatever it is, Make sure that you hit that button and test it in advance. And so not having the technology throw your performance, which I'm sure it probably did for some of us a little bit, and I feel like, I feel like I might have heard that in some of your reads. Um, and as well as, you know, everything that you can possibly do to make that session go smooth. And also, you know, trying not to let that show when you get in the room to actually do the audition. Right? It's in and out and no excess. Nothing necessarily in terms of like, not too much small chat because -- Lau: Anne, you took it outta my head. You took it right outta my mouth. That was my next point, was like, there used to be an ad campaign many years ago for a deodorant, never let 'em see you sweat. That's where like, we're an actor. We're an actor, we're an actor. And what do actors do? They have to act. And that doesn't mean in the role all the time, that means as a business person, like you have to make your client feel like everything's okay. Anne: Oh yeah, absolutely. Lau: Don't worry about it. The sky isn't falling, even though it may not be okay. And you may not be able to audition and they may be disappointed. Don't let them feel like you are disappointed, you're upset, you're worried, you're scared, because that, that mirrors onto them. And then that, that becomes a, like a, you know, a, a slippery slope as they say. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Lau: You know? Anne: Absolutely. Lau: But then being said, Anne, I do wanna congratulate everyone for the ones that -- actually most people were able to get in and show up and do -- almost all. And I just wanna give you a huge round of applause in kudos for doing that, despite your issues and your tech glitches and your confusion and your craziness. Look, you did it. You showed up. You went through it. That's the pro that we wanna build onto. Anne: Yeah. And I, and I wanna say thank you, really. I mean, this is, this was the first time that we've done this. And I think that it's, I like to believe that it's educationally valuable to, you know, the community. And I thank you for being a part of that, uh, from the bottom of my heart, really. Um, I'm really proud of all of you. Number one, it's a Saturday. So thank you for coming out and doing that and then dealing with tech frustrations. And so let's talk a little bit, Lau, about selections. Do you, do you -- Lau: Let's. Do you want to create our shortlists? Anne: I think we should create our shortlists. So first of all, I'm gonna say uh, you know, for, for a lot of the people, I feel that because it was a cold read, there were a lot of reads that sounded a little bit cold read. Um. And so if you had time, right, if you were not the first person, literally, or even if you were the first person, like the, I think my suggestion would be out of the mouth immediately once you get that script. Um, you know what I mean? Get that, get those words out of your mouth because that becomes muscle memory. That's gonna help you make it not sound like a cold read. It's gonna help you get the context of the script quickly. And remember, we are storytellers. We need to tell the story. Even though this was a short script, there was a definite story there. And I needed to feel, above the words coming out correctly, I needed to feel the warmth, the emotion, the point of view. Lau: Mm. I love all that. And as an actor, I mean, I think, you know, we have to choose very specific, very quick actor choices. We don't know if they're gonna work. We don't know how they're gonna land, but we have to be connected to something that's real. We have to know who am I speaking to and what am I connecting to. I like to use props. I mean, I'm a big prop -- like even if I'm, you know, if I'm doing a, a makeup ad, I might have my lipstick ready to go. You may never see it, right, 'cause I'm a voiceover. So you may never see it, but I feel it. I smell it. It's in my hand. There's something, you know, visceral about stuff that is real, that I can hold, I can use, I can feel. I like that. And engaging the body as well. So whether I'm sitting, I'm standing, whatever I'm doing is like, how does this translate within my body? Where's the energy coming from? You know, some of you came in with really warm, rich, textured sound, and that felt right to me. It felt like a way to go. It felt like a path. And as I watched you, I could sort of see where that vibration was coming from. I could sort of see where that was coming from today. So I think not disconnecting your head and your voice from the rest of your body and your spirit is super important. Anne: Now I'm also gonna point out that, you know, part of the specs and, and I think part of what I think innately most people are looking for in this style of, of script is something, you know, uh, not, uh, nothing smooth, polished, or announcery at all. Okay? So that's hard when you're doing a cold read. So the sooner I said, the sooner you can get that script outta your mouth -- and by the way, if you weren't one of the first few that came on board, you know, maybe that's something you were doing in the background right? Until we called you, because we definitely had enough time now through this whole process where people towards the end had a good, ample amount of time to kind of get a feel for that script, you know, and, and really, and do and, and just really feel the copy, understand the copy, know what story you're telling. Natural, and again, I'm looking at some of the specs that we were looking for, you know, natural, not performative, not laying on the gravitas, um, an air of lightness to the reed, which I liked. Um, there was some really nice light reads in there that I liked. Um, what else can I say about, you know -- and I think following the specs is one thing, but then adding something different, right? In addition to making it that non-announcery, telling the story, there, there, I think trying to incorporate something that's a little bit different, a little bit unique, uh, something that you think no other talent is going to give, right? That might surprise us. So I had a couple of, you know, as I was typing madly my notes, a couple of melodies that I heard in there that were really nice, There was like a, a, a lilt on one of the words or maybe a little point of view that was different than I was anticipating, which made me stand up and take notice. And guess what I did, Lau? I actually starred those, uh, those reads. And those are the people that I am, I have on my list to call back. So. Lau: They got Anne's gold star. That means something. Anne: They got my stars. Lau: That means something, right? I love that. That's great. I love that. Oh, there's a point I was just gonna make and I forgot what I was gonna say, but, but I'm hearing you on what you're saying, Anne, because I think that the, that that disappointment, if you will that word disappointment of, I'm ready, I'm prepared, I'm doing this -- wait a second, I'm not doing that. I'm doing something else. Whatever that is, that disappointment, that surprise, that let down that, that confusion, like, it's really important to feel that and be in that space. Certainly as casting as you are, as agent as I am, we're constantly dealing with that. Just when I think it's one thing and I know it, it turns into something else and I don't know it. And typically it's because of priority. So if someone switches a script or someone switches an audition, it's typically, typically because another audition came in that's much more time sensitive. So we have to, I might love say Manny or Kelly or Stephanie, but I also kind of love them for this new one that came in. So I want them to put that on hold just for a second and take this script and do it. So being able to improvise, impromptu, shift fast, interpret fast, I think is really important. Anne: Yeah. And, and before we actually I think reveal, because you and I, I mean, I have my list and you have your list, so we need to agree upon five people that we're gonna be calling back. Uh, I, I really just wanna say that, that it's something, that's something different, right? Uh, the more that you can practice reading your scripts, I mean, I can't say enough how, how important it is to just find different scripts, read, practice all the time, audition -- it, it just helps you to be stronger. And get feedback from, you know, from coaches and, and people that you trust that have been in the industry, that can really help you to, to, you know, uh, perform better and make those bold moves, and workout groups I think are so important. Um, like I have my VO Peeps group and every month, you know, we are working out, and, and, and I know that Lau, you have the same thing. Uh, those are so important to help you get that practice under your belt so that you can -- you need to experience all the different styles, all the different reads in order to make mistakes and grow from them. Lau: Absolutely. Anne: Think it's all about growth, all about growth as an actor. And, and if you're not doing something every day that is voiceover, that is, uh, you know, looking at different scripts, scenarios, practicing, working, uh, I, I think you're, you're missing the boat on growing as an actor. Lau: Right, right. And I think it's also the how we deal with stress. How do we balance, how do we manage time? How do we manage our crazy lives when this stuff comes in? Because you -- you know, I always say be careful what you wish for. You might get it . And when it comes in, it always comes in at the most in inopportune times. It always comes in at the time when you're the busiest, and you're working, and you have events, and you have kids. It always does 100% of the time. So you kind of always have to set your life up that I can go in the space, I can do this quickly, I can make it happen even though I've got a whole bunch of layers going on around me. They don't need to know about it. As we always say, uh, leave your trash at the door. You can come get it on your way out. Don't bring it into the studio. Um, and, and being able to really practice that, really practice that skill along with your actual delivery skill. 'Cause it's a whole other skill, that's an executive functioning skill. That's like, how do I manage 25 things at once and how do I make those 25 things all feel important and all feel like I'm not getting crazy? Like, that's, that's a functioning skill that we have to practice and we have to really work on every day along with the actual acting skills. Anne: Yeah. Right. Lau: That is, we work -- Anne: On, Oh, I'm sorry. I, I was just, I was thinking, I was thinking, uh, while you were talking. Now as we reveal -- Lau, I'm gonna have you read, you know, maybe a list or a couple of people that you, that you kind of have selected and we'll see if we agree. Lau: Yeah. Actually, can I ask you, Anne, just to crosscheck, how many out of our list do we have that actually auditioned? Or maybe I should say how many did not audition? 'Cause it seemed like most auditioned. Anne: Three, uh, three did not. Um. Lau: Okay, great. Yeah. So we had 12 -- Anne: Well, actually, actually two out of the list did not, and then you added, uh, Brit, so. Lau: Okay. So we actually had 12 or 13? Anne: Yep. We actually had 12. Lau: Fantastic turnout. Anne: Out of the original list we had 13. Yeah. Lau: Don't you think that's -- Anne: That's fantastic. Lau: That's a fantastic turnout because we always have, in any audition, a percentage of people who do not audition. There are no shows where they just don't audition for many reasons. So that's actually very high, that level of -- Anne: And they didn't even know their script. Well, they -- Lau: And they didn't know anything and they still showed up. Anne: Yeah. That's good. So. Lau: But see, I think that's a testament. I wanna, I wanna make mention, I think it's a testament to Anne, to myself, and to the nature of this whole group, this whole community of how much we trust each other, we care for each other. And you're just getting to know Anne, many of you, and, and she's part of our community now. And like, like-minded people hold each other up, motivate each other, inspire each other, and through the difficult moments, get each other through it. And that's exactly what happened today. Exactly. And so I just wanna call attention to that from a, a, a social and, and professional friend network, but also a community, sort of inspirational, motivational, holding each other through this. You guys did that, even though you may not have talked to each other. You may not have met with each other. You did that in the space, you did that in the online space. And that's -- Anne: And in the chat. Lau: -- so important to do. Absolutely. The chat. That was great. Okay. So how many, Anne, you think are we gonna shortlist here? Would you say six? Anne: I've, I've got five marked. Lau: Okay. Anne: I've got five marked. Lau: Okay. Anne: Um, so that I'd like to hear, and I, and I just wanna say one other word. Not only was it how I wanted to hear that script in terms of the specs, because consider I am the client or I'm, I'm with the client or I'm representing the client, how I wanted it to be that non-announcery warm feeling with all the, with all the feels, uh, in that description. It's also water. I feel like the voice also, if it hadthe sound that I was looking for. And so there are some that I feel out of the five, I feel some did one better than you know, the other. Um, but they all had something that made me put them on the short list. Lau: So, Okay. So, uh, uh, first of all, everyone had something that I could potentially work with. I would just wanna say that I'm not just saying that to butter people up. I'm saying everyone has a unique quality that I could really direct and work with, but based on what we were looking for and what our vision is, here's some of my top peeps. Okay? I'm just looking my list. Okay. So Manny is one of my tops. Okay? Anne: Agreed. Lau: And I have Kelly, who's one of my tops. Anne: Okay. Lau: And I have Nicole. Anne: Yes. Lau: And I have Aria, and I have, uh, Josh. I wasn't sure how many we're looking for. So -- Anne: Five. Lau: So that's, that's five. I have more. But we'll stop at that. We, we'll stop at that. Anne: Okay. So I have -- I agreed with you on Nicole, Manny, uh, Josh, and then I also had, uh, marked Alicia and uh, Carole. Lau: Good. Three outta five ain't bad. . Anne: Yeah. So, uh, we definitely have the three. Now let's just discuss. Let's just discuss because I think, uh, for me, Nicole had a nice hush that says some of the, the notes that I wrote about Nicole that I really liked. And, and Nicole was also second, so she didn't have a ton of time to prepare. Um, and she came through even with that. Now -- Lau: And you know what I loved about Nicole is when she delivers, there is something that is transfor -- transports me when she speaks that I'm in a different world. I'm in a different mode, I'm in a different world. There's something a little bit magical about her sound that I caught right away. And about her essence, because we were meeting her and seeing her on camera, there's very calm, sort of meditative, logical head on the ground feel to her. And I, that all kind of went together as this really lovely package of someone who I felt really safe with, I felt really good with. Anne: Awesome. Uh, uh, Manny, like from the first few words, I kind of had him marked already. He started off, he started off with a real warm, nice, friendly, uh, not announcery style. And that's what I really, you know, I immediately wrote, you know, stars there. Lau: Yeah, he's super pro. He has a pro sound. There is a polish there without sounding overly announcery. Um, there's a clarity there, and there's also this kind of like sexiness to it that I didn't expect, uh, because I wasn't looking for that. So there was this, uh, appeal to it that, that I really liked. It was almost essential appeal without asking for that, which I liked. Um. Anne: Uh, fantastic. Lau: And he seemed very sure of himself. 'Cause I had not met Manny at all. Anne: Very confident. Lau: He was brought over by a dear friend. And we literally met today when he came in, and I just, I just loved his presence. I just loved his confidence, and I just loved his kind of chill, laidback, but professional guy persona. He had a persona that was very strong that I heard his sound. Anne: Yeah, I agree. I completely agree. Um, Josh, now I have Josh. Um, there was a word of course I was typing so furiously that I couldn't type the word correctly, but he had a word in there that caught my attention, and it was the timbre and the lilt of the word. So as I was mentioning before, sometimes it's just something a little bit different that captures your attention. Um, and so that's one of the reasons why I marked him. Uh, and then, so there's where our three agree upon, and so now we just have to talk a little bit about our ex, our next two. Lau: And I wanted to make mention about Josh too Because Josh, and I don't know, I don't know if this is age related or, or what, but there's, he's right in the middle. There's an interesting gray zone that he's in between that cool -- Anne: Yes, I agree. Lau: -- surfer dude, laidback guy. And someone who's a little bit more professional and on it, someone who's a little bit more with it, the guy in the know. So he has that standup comedy, funny, fun appeal to him, but he has the serious enough that he can land it and have some ethos there. Anne: Agreed. Agreed. Lau: That's why I love Josh. Okay. Um, okay. The two outside of that, yours was Carol and Alicia. Anne: Carol and Alicia. Yes. Lau: You know, close second, this is what people spend fighting behind closed doors about for like hours or days is like you're kind of fighting over people who are all talented. Anne: And that's it. I think, you know, and, and here's the deal, here's where it comes in. So Lau and I are gonna discuss who those other two are gonna be. And, uh, this is probably what happens in most casting , right, offices or whoever's fighting you for the client. And we'll just go back and forth, uh, on the reasons why, you know, we either want this for the callback, right? And, and even what during the callback we'll be figuring out, well, you know, what is the reasoning for any one particular voice? And sometimes you just don't know what that is, and it's not always based on performance sometimes. Lau: No. It's just sometimes it's just like an instinct, a feeling, an impulse. And, and in my mind I'm thinking some of these people are like, oh, okay, so if this person can't do it, they're booked, or they get sick or whatever, then this person could easily go in. Totally. So it isn't the case where I really love this person and I really don't love this -- It's not always that case. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: There's a lot of like, gray zones of people that kind of fall in the same grouping, but that just don't make it to the booking, you know? Um, so Carol's voice is fantastic. I mean, it's very, to me, very corporate sounding. It has very businessy, corporatey, flight attendant-ish, finding the exit kind of sound. I like it. I love it. It's, I felt it was a little bit too objectified, a little bit too removed for the level of warmth that I was, was looking for this 'cause it is travel. When I think about travel now, and I think about number one, trying to reach the younger people, the younger generation, I think about a slightly, you know, not younger -- younger is a mythical word. It's just like a slightly more, more energized or more youthful kind of thing. Anne: Sure. I get that. I get that. Lau: And then also a, a, a little bit of like boxy or squareness in terms of it. Anne: But now when I, of course, Carole, as you said, more corporate and of course, you know, I'm very attuned to the corporate ear because I do a lot of that myself. Now, I'm also gonna say for Carole and thinking of travel, I was thinking, oh, she would make me feel comfortable on a plane, like if she were the flight attendant and so Expedia. So that was one of the reasons I thought it fit. But I'm going actually, and I'll cede you Aria because I love Aria. Lau: You'll raise me Aria. Anne: I'll raise you Aria because even though I didn't check her, I do love that voice. She's got that youthful, that youthful style if that's the market we're looking for. Um, she, you know, we did give her a different script immediately. Like she literally had no time to even voice it and have it come out of her mouth. So I have to take that with, you know, a little bit, uh, you know, a grain of salt because she really didn't even get it out of her mouth, except that was the first time. So for me, I had written that it was a little fast, but I understand why, because it was the first time coming out of her mouth. Now if I'm going on my gut and saying, you know, could you convince me, Aria, um, yeah, you could because of, because I like the timbre, the tone of her voice, the demographic is there for the script. And, uh, so yeah, that's my, that's my thoughts. Lau: And, and you know, I just wanna point out that, you know, if we don't forget about who are really, who's our target demographic for this, and is like both of these women could absolutely deliver this script. But when we get back to, you know, who the client really wants us to be looking at, it's really that, you know, 18 to 35 demographic. Because let's be honest, that's most of the people that are on like Travelocity, Kayak, Expedia, and going up-up-up -- not to say the 40 and up are not doing it, but for this particular one, one of the goals is to kind of find someone who has a bit more energized or youthful presence. Anne: All right. You've convinced me. Lau: So anyway, so that's one issue there too as well. Okay. Anne: Yep. You've convinced me. Lau: Okay, so Alicia kind of fits that. Anne: Okay. Lau: Alicia kind of fits that. Anne: Oh yes. Lau: Um, and I love her quality. She's got a rocky, dirty sort of like textured young sound. So I do like it. I, I felt like it was a little slow, like it wasn't as energized. Anne: Yes, I agree with you there. Um, and I wasn't, I wasn't thinking slow in terms of the read, but more contemplative and thoughtful. And she was another one who had a really nice different sound on the word -- she interpreted the word color toward the end of the script a little bit differently than most other people too, so we can find our colors. And I feel like that the, the operative word obviously in, in any story that we're telling, right, there's some operative words in there that really need to kind of hit the, the listener. Color is one of those words. And she really had a different, a slightly different pitch on the word color, which is why I I marked her. So. Lau: Right. Now, here's the thing that you and I both skipped over. And you guys listening in, this happens all the time. Um, you guys both, ironically we both skipped over the fact that the client does want diversity for these roles. And I don't know how I could skip that over, but I got excited with the switch out of script, but -- Anne: Well, we did change, we did change it for this purpose to all genders and ethnicities. But you're right. I mean, diversity is something that has to be a consideration and -- Lau: Right, authentically, right, diverse. So whereas like someone like Kelly, who I know very well and is a total pro, and can do this in her sleep fits that bill in so many ways and the voice is so layered and rich and textured -- Anne: Oh, I agree with that. Lau: -- and seasoned -- Anne: I agree with that. Lau: You know, it's, we're gonna have to go back and forth on, you know, the age thing and the youthful-ness thing because she's much more of a mature sound in my mind. Anne: My only, my only comments, I mean I did, I did like Kelly, I, my only comments was that she was a little too fast on the read I thought on that. And so, but you know what I'm -- Lau: But we can direct her. Anne: I could -- okay. Lau: Where she's directable. Anne: I feel that she -- all right then, then. Alright, so then I think we have our five then. Lau: And you know how I know she's directable, for those listening in? Because we know her personally. We have a relationship with her. Anne: Okay. Now -- Lau: Normally I couldn't say that if I don't know her. Anne: That's what I'm gonna say. So, and only, and only in this instant, right, if, if you know a casting director, here's an advantage, right? Um, if a casting director has heard you before or hired you before or has worked with you before, you know, it's, it behooves you to have, you know, a, a, an excellent relationship. Or when you work with them, make it as smooth as possible. Make it easy for the casting director. Make it easy for them to work with you, and they'll remember and have you coming back. So. Lau: And quite oftentimes, the casting, we see this all the time at the agency, we'll come back to the agents and go, love it. Great. Good. Need some retakes. It's too slow, I need it, da da da da. Right? And then we can go back to those people and we know that they can do it. They're capable of it. They're willing to. Anne: Yep. All right, So then we have our list, our callbacks. We're gonna call these five people back. Nicole Fikes, Aria Lapides, Manny Cabo, Josh Wells, and Kelly White. Congratulations. I would like to give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys were amazing. I can't wait for the next episode. Lau, love you. Thank you so much, guys, and we'll see you soon. Lau: Great job. Anne: Bye-bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.