Audio tech expert George Whittam, the genius behind George the Tech, joins Anne Ganguzza, on the VO Boss Podcast. The BOSSes tackle the technical hurdles of the industry - from unreliable internet to optimizing studio setups. George's solutions help empower voice talents to keep their focus where it belongs—on their craft. The BOSSes delve into strategies for leveraging technology and outsourcing to scale operations effectively. Adapting to change is non-negotiable in this rapidly shifting market, and finding a mentor can be crucial for navigating its complexities. The BOSSes highlight the importance of forming meaningful industry relationships and the camaraderie that can fuel professional success. 00:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey guys, it's that season again. Are you feeling that tickle in your throat? Don't let a cold or flu slow you down. Combat your symptoms early with Vocal Immunity Blast, a simple and natural remedy designed to get you back to 100% fast. With certified therapeutic-grade oils like lemon to support respiratory function, oregano for immune power, and a protective blend that shields against environmental threats, your vocal health is in good hands. Take charge of your health with Vocal Immunity Blast. Visit anneganguzza dot com to shop.  00:41 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  01:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am so happy and elated to be here with my special guest, audio tech guru and owner of George the Tech the one and only George Whittam, Woo-hoo.  01:16 - George Whittam (Guest) Hey, can you hear me okay from the Chili's in Palos Verdes, california.  01:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I can I, can I love it. You know George is. He is technology on the go, guys, and for those of you I don't know anyone that doesn't know you, but for those of you bosses out there that don't know George, you need to know George. He has been doing this since 2005, dedicating his life and I know this because he's helped me to serving the technical needs of bosses out there voice actors, podcasters, recording studio owners and in 2017, he launched georgethetechcom to assist anybody that needs support with just about anything. And he has an amazing team. I know firsthand. I have used that team. I've used George for many, many years and among his many successful clients I'm gonna say, in addition to me, are Don LaFontaine, bill Ratner, mr Beast, david Prog, melissa Disney, randy Thomas, joe Cipriano and Scott Rummel. Well, welcome, welcome, welcome and thank you for checking in with me, george, from your very busy schedule. George actually just popped off the road and said I will join this interview from the Chili's after my customer that you just went to go fix a studio.  02:32 - George Whittam (Guest) I did, I did. I do most of my work from home, of course, remotely, but I have a few clients who do have me on a membership program that I've been doing for many years and I make regular visits. So today was one of those days and technology, once in a while, it just flails miserably at letting you know that there's something you're supposed to be doing, and this was one of those moments. You texted me from the car. You're just, and you're like out of the blue tech, just checking in, and I'm like, oh, that's so nice, and it's just checking in, see you're not checking in.  03:03 You're like where the F are you right now?  03:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) George, george, where are you?  03:07 - George Whittam (Guest) In our Riverside room right now. So anyway, thank you. I hope this isn't too distracting. They find me a quiet corner of the restaurant, so we'll see how it goes.  03:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love it. I will say, though, here's the deal, my video now Riverside. Anybody that's been on Riverside knows that it's uploading video and audio separately, and right now my upload is at 94%, Yours is only at 55%, so that 5G connection keep your fingers crossed that that internet is going to upload that video successfully and the audio Don't worry. Well, guess what I get to do this again.  03:42 - George Whittam (Guest) I got your back because I'm recording it. I was about to say, I was recording in QuickTime and it said that you've stopped recording, so I'm going to start recording it again, just so I have another layer of redundancy to this whole thing. But that is the really cool thing about Riverside is that, yeah, it doesn't want QuickTime, won't let me. Okay, fine, fine, we're going to rely on new technology today. But, yeah, riverside is really cool the way it keeps a local record and even if my internet isn't, great.  04:09 I'll eventually get it uploaded to you, so don't worry about that. Yes, Awesome.  04:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, it's always a good excuse to chat with you again, because it's so rare these days, I mean except when I'm desperate in need of technical support.  04:22 - Intro (Announcement) And.  04:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'll have the bosses know that George helped me with my past or my latest studio upgrade. And I remember, george, that we were talking about me moving my Apollo solo into my studio which, by the way, it is moved in here and we were testing out this very long cable that went from my Mac studio out there into my studio and guess what it's working, and yay, technology. And so, george, you're instrumental in all of my studio upgrades and actually my original studio building when I moved to California back in oh my goodness, 2008. And so you've been through a lot of my studio builds. And let's talk a little bit about, oh gosh, what bosses need audio-wise right for being successful voice actors. They have so many technological needs.  05:14 - George Whittam (Guest) It is so many. You know. The thing is not everybody is like you, anne.  05:19 You love and embrace technology in a way that a lot of actors do not right and so on the cover of the laptop that you can't see because it's on the other side of the camera. I have a cover on my laptop and it's a picture of the left brain, right brain thing, right Like you know, the left being very technical, the right being creative, and I'm such a big proponent of finding the perfect middle balance. Maybe that's because I'm also a Libra, I don't know, but you know it's like I'm such a big proponent of finding the perfect middle balance. Maybe that's because I'm also a Libra, I don't know, but you know it's like I'm always trying to find that balance and I'm also trying to figure out who you are as my client. Are you more Ann Ganguza, or are you more Lori Allen, who's my quintessential super right brain, crazy actor talent, you know, and she knows that I'll say that and she'll laugh that doesn't love technology or doesn't care, right, I mean I get it.  06:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean we go into this industry. I mean some of us are just super, super creative and brilliant.  06:18 - George Whittam (Guest) If we had our choice, we would let someone else run all the technology and take care of it for us, which is what you do Absolutely. In a perfect world, we would all have our own little virtual assistant engineer people who just log into your machine and run everything for you. I do know a precious few actors who have actually availed themselves of such a thing, which is a pretty nice position to be in, right, and that would be a really cool scenario where you really don't need to think about it. But the fact of the matter is, the vast majority of the time, we have to think about and know what's going on with the technology and ensure that we're giving the client super clean, great quality audio quickly and on time, reliably, etc. Etc. And that's the goal.  07:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It is about good audio, but it's about a lot of other things beyond just good audio, you know, willing to really experiment and figure out solutions for your clients that are not like status quo. So if they have a budget, you can fit yourself within that budget and you make things work and you say, all right, so if you need this, we can maybe substitute this or we can work with this. And I'm talking bosses, my firsthand experience, not just on what microphone or give me a stack to put on my audio, but like home studio builds from the ground up, like what can I do to save money here? Or what can I do? I have this in my budget and you literally have created things from like the ground up, depending on your client's budget.  08:01 And I think that that's really awesome and it really goes to show like the versatility and the amount of skills that you have in, not just like one thing. I mean you have to be great at everything, because everybody has different technology, everybody has a different microphone, everyone has a different DAW, everyone has a different environment in their house that you have to kind of assess and then say, well, okay, here's a solution. And then I'm quite sure, myself being one of them going, no, I can't do that, so you'll come up with multiple solutions. Or if something doesn't work, you'll actually get it to work. You'll figure out what it is that's not working and then make it work.  08:38 - George Whittam (Guest) Yeah, it's so many different things because there's a lot of things that you can get away with or there's certain things that you can make work or get it to work. Here's my black bean burger and fries.  08:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All right.  08:50 - George Whittam (Guest) There's a lot of things you can get away with, so I'll try to talk while you take a bite. I will eat when you're talking, okay, so there's a lot of things that you can make work. There's a lot of things that you can get away with, and that's where people start out right. That's where you begin, that's where you learn on your own.  09:06 That's where you get used equipment. You get hand-me-downs, you buy what you can find on Amazon, right, you get away with it. You make it work. But at a certain point your clientele requires this consistency, quality and this quick turnaround, and that stuff starts to be cumbersome, it becomes a bother because it's getting in your way, right. So that's a big part of it. And then I'm glad you said earlier budget.  09:33 You really need to know where you're at. I mean, this is why voice acting, especially now as an entrepreneurial pursuit, you really need to have a pretty good idea where you're at with your budget. When you come to me, be honest with yourself, be honest with me. I'm not here to spend unnecessary money. I'm not here to push you or upsell you. I'm going to tell you exactly where you're at, based on where you are with your budget, and make sure it fits, because that's my goal is to help you out and get you where you need to go at the budget you've had to spend.  10:07 And then if it's either really too low, I'll let you know if I think it's not going to work, or I will speak up if I think you're overspending, if I think you've got this budget and it's unnecessarily. You know it's like, oh well, you've got that much to spend, all right. Well, let's think about that. Should we really spend all of that? Or should we really be spending 20% of that on the mic and maybe 50% of that on building your website, getting your demo, that kind of stuff right? So I'll make sure your money is spent the right way, but be really honest with yourself about what your budget is. Know where you're ready to spend so we can get off on the right foot.  10:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So let's talk about the types of services that you do offer, because I'm happy to recommend you and your team to my students, and I think they might have preconceived notions as to oh well, george can just create a stack for me, or George can just tell me what microphone to buy, with lots of experience in multiple operating systems. So it's not just the mic or not just the studio, it can be your computer, it can be your software, it can be how to use Twisted Wave or how to use I just had a student the other day Studio One. I'm sure you have somebody on your team that can help with somebody with Studio One, and so can you create a filter for that? And so I'm constantly saying to myself I know lots of different audio engineers that specialize right, and I think that's great, but they're all independent, right? And so I can't be like, oh gosh, well, who knows Twisted Wave or who knows Studio One, or who knows?  11:48 And I'll think about it. What's great is you're like a one-stop shop, because now you've built yourself up a team. What's great is you're like a one-stop shop because now you've built yourself up a team, and I love this, because when I hired you in the beginning it was just you and you're I mean, you're busy back then and I love how you've like I mean, talk about being a boss, right. You've actually grown your little empire there and created a team of really amazing people that work for you, that have great skills and very specific skills. Speak to that a little bit.  12:14 - George Whittam (Guest) It's been a dream for a really long time to expand beyond myself. It started probably 12, 13 years ago in New York City. I knew I couldn't be in New York City that often and I had a few clients in New York and I thought, god, it'd be a no-brainer to have somebody else backing me up here in Manhattan. I actually had interviews in Borders bookstores with people that responded to ads, sat down, interviewed people and onboarded some folks and it just turned out that, one, maybe it was too soon to do it and two, it wasn't enough demand, because at that time it was a different time. But New York it was almost 100% studio town. Right, all the gigs were in studios because they're all over the place, they're all like walking or a subway ride away. So New York was a different environment.  13:05 So flash forward now quite a few years and I decided, with the new website that I had built by Skills Hub a couple of years ago, that it was finally time to properly expand the team. And now that I have a system built, an infrastructure, a booking system, the whole thing that allows me to essentially infinitely expand, I can build it as big as I want. I finally had the tools and everything in place to do that, and so we have that. Now you can go onto the website. Let's say you need help with Adobe Audition. You can see who is available that is actually an Adobe Audition expert and then you'll see their availability and you can book into the system right then and there and get help with someone that actually knows what they're doing. I realized after a while there's a certain point where I don't necessarily learn and retain new information the way I used to. I think that's just life, that's just age, right?  14:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, there's so much now.  14:04 - George Whittam (Guest) And there's so much more.  14:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I know you're like right Anne.  14:07 - George Whittam (Guest) Right, but I get that I totally get that.  14:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But think about this what I really love. What I really love is, again and again, this is the VO Boss podcast. So I really like to always relate things to how you can really be a boss, and I think all of us voice actors are bosses, obviously in our own right, and I think we really need to look for ways that we can grow and expand. Right and it's not an easy thing, right, it's a scary thing how can you scale? How can you provide more services for your clients so that your business can move forward successfully? And you are such a great example of I mean, not everybody that's a voice actor, is an audio engineer and they're going to scale their businesses in the way that you did, but it's all relative right, as voice actors, how can you scale your business? And so if you think outside of the box and you think about what can you do that's efficient as a voice actor, right, maybe you don't like technology, maybe you don't understand your computer, and I'm saying there's a certain element that we have to be technologically adept, but you can consider outsourcing these things as a voice actor so that you yourself can scale your business, and you've offered this great place for people to have all kinds of options, and so it's not just like a one-shot deal.  15:25 George, I need help. You have like 24-7 support, and I know for a fact that you've got emergency tech support, which I know, having worked in technology for how many years prior to voiceover. Technology is awesome until it doesn't work and then people panic, right, and that's when it's almost the most important to have that type of support. And so I'm sure lots of you voice actors have had something happen with your computer, like, and all of a sudden you're at a loss, or something happened in your studio, you're at a loss, and now all of a sudden, do you have a backup? Do you have a way that you can deliver your goods, deliver your product to your client?  16:01 And I think we all need to really start thinking about how can we outsource, how can we scale, and you've got a great place where, if voice actors don't necessarily love working with technology or learning technology, nor do they have the time right For me. I have no desire to be an audio engineer, I know what I know right, and if I have problems, let's say I'm setting up my new Mac studio. Well, I don't want to spend my entire weekend trying to learn anymore. I mean, I love learning, don't get me wrong but I don't want to right now. That's not an efficient use of my time.  16:33 So I'd much rather call you and say hey, george, I know you've set up Macs, I know you've done the Apollo on this iOS and I'm running into these problems. Or I know I'm having a problem like with Zoom and then sending my audio through Zoom. How can you help me? So it just makes sense for me, as a boss, right to outsource that. And so make sure, out there, guys, that you have a source, and I highly recommend George a hundred times If you haven't figured it out by now, I'm recommending him a hundred times over. Have a source, have a place that you can go when you run into trouble technology-wise or with your computer, or you want to just learn. You also have educational resources. You have tutorials. Yes, you have one-on-one help. You've just got all those options and I think it just really lends itself. Not only are you showing people how you're a boss and you're scaling your business right. They can scale their business with you.  17:26 - George Whittam (Guest) Yeah, being a boss is what I've really become now. I was always solopreneuring. In a way I still am, but now I do actually have people that look to me for getting paid, look for me for getting jobs, look for me for communication and support and actually training. The content we create for you guys we use internally to train our own team. I want more of our team to be comfortable with the Universal Audio Apollo. I've been encouraging them to watch the content we already have. Everybody who does work for me gets complete carte blanche access to my entire library of content right, so they all can learn.  18:03 I want to work with you, then I would love to have you. I mean, honestly, the point is that we've built the network, we've built the system, we have the infrastructure. Now it's just a matter of what's the next thing a voice actor needs, or what's the next thing podcasters need, what's the next thing people that do media appearances need, studios, people that need to do executives, c-suite folks what do they all need? And we're trying to eventually fill these different gaps right, and so my role now is more of a boss, more of a CEO, more of a director, even beyond. I spend way more hours of my day doing director, boss, ceo work than I do actual build time nowadays, and that's just how things have morphed. But it's great.  18:52 I love finding out that somebody got a service from one of our team and I didn't even know about it. That's the coolest thing ever. Oh, you helped that guy. Awesome, I had no idea. That's great. That means things are working. I don't have to micromanage everything, and so that's been a huge thrill for me, and it's just allowed us to be so much more helpful to more people.  19:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's such a relief. I know my own business. When you said about micromanaging, and in reality, you know, we talk all the time about voice actors, we're solopreneurs, we wear all the hats, but now's the time to really start thinking about, okay, what is the most efficient use of my time? Right, and I want you bosses to really open your minds out to thinking that a lot of people they get stuck in this whole thought process that, oh, I can't afford to hire somebody. But in reality, if you sat down and you marked what is your price per hour? Right, how much money do you make when you're doing voiceover, versus how much money are you making when you're trying to, like, do the billing yourself? Right?  19:50 - George Whittam (Guest) I'm so glad you mentioned the hourly thing because a while ago somebody made that clear to me.  19:55 There's the hourly rate that you charge retail, right? I know what my hourly rate is per hour. If you want to consult with me directly, it's $360 an hour. Whoa huge number. Wow, that sounds really crazy. That's not what I make per hour. What I make per hour is actually what I made last year. Subtract my expenses, take my net revenue right and divide that by I don't remember the magic number is whatever. It is 52 weeks a year, you know. And then you basically whittle it down to what your actual hourly wage actually is and you start to realize like, oh my gosh, that's what my actual time is worth. And so you're going oh, now it is worth spending $25 an hour for a virtual assistant or somebody because I'm actually worth $50 an hour.  20:45 You know what I mean. So that's. It's really good to know that.  20:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly, exactly.  20:50 And I think that we need to look outside of, like, the numbers that are just spent, because somebody might say, oh, I spent a thousand dollars on this microphone.  21:00 If you figure out what your value is per hour, right, and you're doing tasks that I always say, don't bring you joy a certain standard where, if I want to be able to direct somebody right that I'm going to outsource stuff to, I need to learn enough about it so that I can direct intelligently, right.  21:20 I know, you know, if somebody's saying to me well, it's taking me five hours to do this, when I know, in fact, maybe it shouldn't be taking five hours, because when you become a boss and you start employing people, you have to be concerned about, okay, what's the value of your employees and what are they bringing you, what are you paying them right and how efficient can they be? And I think also, george, it becomes where you now have to inspire the people that work for you to want to do their best for you, that they want to help move your company forward, and to do that, you've got to pay them a fair rate you definitely do and you've got to inspire them with things that they like to do right so that they join the team right.  22:01 And that's a whole other set of boss skills that's a whole other set of boss skills which I love.  22:06 - George Whittam (Guest) The amazing person I brought in to do our customer service and actually kind of act as a bit of an assistant to me as well. She also is a graphic designer. So when I realized that she was getting these skills, she was literally studying and I said you know what? Let's try some things, let's get you doing some more creative endeavors, and I'm paying her more for that. I said you know, track your time when you're doing graphic design, when you're creating our thumbnails and our promotional content for the socials and our webinars, and that's a different rate. You tell me what you think is a fair rate for your graphic design and then you have a rate for all the other general work and she breaks up her billing that way and so she's getting paid better for that work and that's going to be much more fulfilling for her because it's creative stuff and I think it's been working out really well. You know, my biggest fear is her going away. If she goes, away.  23:02 That's going to be a giant pain in my neck to find another person like her Finding good.  23:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's going to be very difficult, so I want to keep her around.  23:12 - George Whittam (Guest) It's a delicate balance and I trust her. It sure is, you know, but it's a tricky one. The more you rely on outside help, the more you start realizing you need to make sure what will you do if that person needs to be replaced? It's another skill.  23:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And the people that work for you. They need to be better than you, and I think that's an ego thing for a lot of people. Do you know what I mean it's like? Oh no, I want to do it because I want to have control over it. I mean, I'm a control freak. I know this. I mean it took me a while, but once I started realizing that when you hire people who are better than you at the tasks like I'm not a graphic artist, so I want to hire somebody who's amazing at that and then pay them what they're worth, they aren't bitter, they don't feel like, oh, they're just working for pennies, and so they get excited because you want to work with them and collaborate. They get excited about helping you grow your business and you get excited about helping them grow their skills or grow their career as well under you. So I think it's something that bosses out there can really start to think about.  24:10 How would you expand right? And I think now too, with the technology and with AI and all this talk about the industry and how it's changing, I think technology it's always good to educate yourself on the technology evolve with the technology, those other things that we're talking about in addition to voiceover, like on-camera work, right? Voice actors maybe this is something that you know. You want to present yourself more professionally to your clients. What's involved in a good I don't know webcam or good lighting for your studio and that sort of thing. So that's the sort of thing that you can help them with as well in terms of expanding and broadening their horizons, even outside of voice acting.  24:51 So I love that you said that you were also delving into on-camera and technology for expanding businesses, because I think voice actors should also consider things like that. I mean, it's something we've talked about on the podcast as well, as we're moving forward along with this technology. What other services can you offer your clients? What other things can you do? Are you going to be making TikTok videos, right? How can you get your message out there? How can you market yourself right so that people know you exist, so they can hire you? And a part of that is getting out there, getting heard, getting seen, and you can help with that.  25:26 - George Whittam (Guest) And you might also be able to parlay that thing, because now you've become the spokesperson for that channel or that brand or that explainer and if you can now take that ability to create content into a visual medium and you might move beyond just doing voice, if you end up being comfortable on camera. You may not know if you're comfortable on camera until you do it. When I started my first podcast or really web channel, YouTube channel East West On your Body Shop, you can go back and watch episode one.  25:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh yeah, and I was like a deer in headlights Myself too.  26:01 - George Whittam (Guest) I got a lot more comfortable on camera. So you know, as I evolve and I start doing more and more interviews and interviewing others and I'm going wow, I'm really comfortable doing this. I've actually really enjoying this. How can I parlay this into a different? So now I'm thinking about speaking engagements and doing speaking roles.  26:21 I've gotten to teach in a couple of universities now. Wow, I love doing that, so maybe I need to parlay that into another thing. So I'm looking into speaking now. So it's just ever-evolving. If you get stuck in one lane, you can quickly start feeling discouraged. When that one lane that you chose starts grinding to a halt, you really need to be ready to try new stuff Starts getting traffic right and saturated.  26:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean now I'm just thinking of that, you know, because after the pandemic I mean I had so many people that I think got into voiceover because of the pandemic and now I thought we were saturated before. But there's a lot of people in there. I'm not saying there isn't enough work, voiceover work. However, there's an awful lot of people doing voiceover. So I think it's always healthy for us to consider how we can always grow and always evolve. So I'm going to ask you one last thing, george, before I have to run for the day what would be your best advice that you would give someone out there just getting into the industry?  27:21 - George Whittam (Guest) Definitely work with a coach that understands the spectrum of what you need to learn in a holistic way. That coach doesn't have to be an expert in every aspect, but the coach should be very aware of that. You need to learn these separate skills right. So someone like Anne, for example. She knows a lot about a lot of things, but she also knows when it's time to get another person involved a demo producer, an expert engineer.  27:47 Yeah, that's so, so helpful, right, and it's so easy. These days it's almost like getting support is just like dating. It's so easy to just keep swiping right or swiping left. Which one is it? Because you're like well, that was nice, let me try that guy, and I hear that guy's good. Let's try that guy.  28:03 Hook your wagon to somebody for a while and focus in on what they have to say and learn before you start constantly seeking fresh perspectives. It doesn't mean fresh perspectives are bad, but you really need to focus on one person's methodologies and get behind them and then, after you've done it for a while, consider well, is it the best way? Well, maybe I could learn a new skill, or maybe I have another way to learn this that could save time. I never am offended when a client says I worked with somebody else along the way, but I do get concerned when somebody's pretty new and they've already taken, let's say, consulting from three or four different techs and four or five different coaches, because they're going to have a lot of conflicting or somewhat differing opinions and you're going to get so off base.  28:51 So find somebody that is well vetted, somebody that has like we have our trusted partners page on our website. Everybody on there is somebody we have worked with and trust. And hook your wagon to somebody like Ann, so you have that one point of focus to help you navigate all of this, and then they can help shut you off into different directions for those specialty things. Otherwise it can feel hopelessly confusing and there's just too much conflicting information out there. So that's the best thing I can say Just find one single point of trust, follow that person, get the advice they can give you and find the expertise in different areas when you need it, and go to georgethetech early and often. Yes.  29:41 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, yes, I was just going to say how can people get in touch with you, george the tech?  29:44 - George Whittam (Guest) You have your landing page right, Absolutely Slash.  29:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yep, is it slash? Be a boss, my gosh.  29:50 - George Whittam (Guest) I don't have it memorized.  29:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I have it like in a link, I think so I'll check it, I'll look it up.  29:56 I'll put that in the show notes. Yeah, I'll put it in the show notes for services. I do have a nice little link that I can send to you. That will save you some money on your first services with George. So highly recommend. George. It's been so nice to have you and I appreciate you pulling off to the side of the road and being safe and talking with us today, and I'm going to give a great big shout out to IPDTL you too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom and George, it's been so wonderful talking with you. I feel like we should do a series. We should do a whole series with George the Tech.  30:31 - George Whittam (Guest) We'll do another one in a proper environment when I'm in my home studio, I promise. And, by the way, it's slash AG, so georgethetech slash AG for Ann Ganguza. That'll take you to all the information we have and our discount codes and come and visit us and learn from us. We have so much useful content that's affordable and accessible. So happy to be of service and thank you, ann. Thanks for being so cool, a friend and being always a pleasure to talk to yes. You're a blast to be around.  31:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I feel the exact same way about you. So thanks so much. All right, bosses, you have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Take care, bye, bye.  31:13 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

In this episode of BOSS money talks, we guide you through the essential financial and managerial responsibilities of running a voiceover business. Discover how to budget for employees or contractors effectively, distinguish between different types of workers, and ensure fair compensation. Learn about the mental preparation required to step into an employer's shoes, the importance of training and feedback, and how to create a nurturing work environment that drives growth and success. Whether you're outsourcing tasks or managing an in-house team, this episode is packed with insights to help you effectively grow your business. We also highlight the critical role of trust and communication in any business operation. 00:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, ever feel overwhelmed by marketing? I get it. Let's tackle it together with a VO Boss Blast. We're all about making marketing as enjoyable as voice acting itself. Dive in with me and let's blast off together and let's turn those marketing challenges into victories. Sign up today at voboss com.  00:27 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Money Talk Series. I'm your host, nne Ganguza, and I am so excited to bring back to the show money girl Danielle Famble to the show, hey.  00:58 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Danielle, hey, glad to be back.  01:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) How are you?  01:01 - Danielle Famble (Guest) I'm great. How are?  01:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) you. I'm good, you know, it is that time of the month, yeah. I'm talking about that financial time of the month.  01:09 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Oh yeah.  01:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I know what that sounded like, but anyways, it's that financial time of the month where I have to pay the people that work for me, and so I have to pay my employees. Do I call them employees, my contractors, my virtual assistants, whatever that I have, or whatever you may have bosses out there that help you to run your business, and I highly highly recommend them because they can really help you to grow, but it is something that, financially, I need to make sure that I account for it, and so I thought it'd be a great topic to talk about in our episode, because I know a lot of voice talents that are either they don't want to do marketing or they don't want to do social media, and so they're hiring assistants and they really need to know how to account for this financially in their businesses.  01:56 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah, no, this is a really important topic because what you're talking about is being an employer, being responsible for the people who are helping you grow the business that you have created, and that's a really big responsibility. So not only is it about, like, accounting for it, but it's also making sure that you mentally are prepared for all the things that comes with being an employer. So, yes, being ready for the financial implications every single month is really important. But also, what are you wanting your employees to help you do? Contractors, whomever and there's a designation there. It depends on if they are specifically working for you and you've onboarded them from a tax perspective.  02:40 But if they are a freelancer, then a contractor, and there are different ways that you have to kind of deal with that.  02:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know what? I love that you brought up the fact that not only like financially right, we have to figure out, okay, first of all, we're going to be outsourcing things in our businesses and we will be paying as an employer or as a contract, whatever, we'll be paying somebody, and so, financially, we need to be responsible, but also as a boss right, as a VO boss, you need to be a boss, and so there's also not just financial implications, but also are you ready to be a boss? And really, what are the criteria, what are the qualifications for people that you bring on board that can help you to grow your business, to be successful financially and growth wise?  03:24 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah, I think you also need to take a look inward.  03:26 Before you become a boss of someone else is really to figure out is there something for them to do consistently, what do you want this person to help you with, what are the tasks? And being able to train them on those tasks so that whenever they are doing whatever it is you have them doing in your business, they know how to do it. You know how to do it and you know if it's being done correctly or incorrectly and there's some feedback that needs to be given. So really knowing that, but also understanding that when you bring someone into your business, when you become a boss, you're responsible for, in a way, their livelihood. Personally, I take that responsibility seriously because I know before I became a boss, before I was running this business, I know what it feels like to be sort of at the whim of your employer and it can kind of be a bit of a vulnerable position. So you get to decide what kind of boss you want to be when you are the VO boss of your own business.  04:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely. I love that you brought that up. It is something that you're right. You need to look inward. You need to really take consideration.  04:30 If you've never been a boss of someone else, there are lots of different aspects to it and how to be a good boss, right, and so, financially, I'm going to say that number one, if you've worked in the corporate world at all and I say this so many times, like we just we want to be appreciated for what we do, right, we want to feel that maybe we can make contributions to the companies in which we work. And if we are not getting that happiness or that joy or that satisfaction, then typically we look elsewhere or we're like I got to get out of the corporate world, I just want to do voiceover. So the same thing when you're an employer, you're a VO boss and you have somebody that's working for you, you want to make sure that number one, you're paying them a fee. That is, I think, something that motivates them, inspires them, is fair, right Compensation, and you're not just trying to like get somebody because you don't have a ton of money and so I can't afford to pay you a whole lot. I really look at it differently. I'm like right, this is someone's livelihood. They're depending on the salary or whatever it is. You're paying them this little stipend for their livelihood and a lot of times they're freelancers themselves. If you happen to hire within the voiceover community, or if not, it is a portion of their income.  05:37 So you want to be a good boss number one, financially. You want to make sure that they're getting paid fairly, that they're getting paid, I would say, competitively for what they do, like if they're social media, if they're doing accounting, if they're doing whatever they're doing. You want to make sure that they're getting paid a fair fee, because you want to make sure they want to work for you and they want to be part of the team. That is the whole mental thing, right? You want them to work their best for you so that you can grow together, and so I think that's one thing to take into consideration. You're paying them fairly and then also, you're willing to manage them, because these are living human beings and there are emotions at play, right?  06:27 - Danielle Famble (Guest) There's all kinds of things that come into being a good boss, and I love that you talked about managing them, because really a huge step really comes from you being the person who is working in your business working your business to managing and overseeing other people who are taking on those tasks.  06:37 Again, this whole thing really is like a huge mental shift, because you need to now be able to articulate what it is that you are looking for, how to give feedback to that person and receive feedback, because once the person that you've hired becomes the one who's responsible for this task, they will likely become better at it than you were, because they're spending more time doing it than you did, and so maybe hearing and receiving feedback on a different way to go about this task, for example, might actually be better. But do you want to just stick with what you said and how you went about growing the business to bring them on in the first place, or do you want to take that feedback from them? It really is about like how much do you want to micromanage or not micromanage at all, and a huge part of it is also creating and crafting the vision for your business. Where are you going? Because you now the boss, you're the leader and you're sharing this vision and the people are helping. You know you're growing together, as you said. I love that.  07:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly, and you want them to be motivated and inspired to help you achieve that vision, especially for those of you that work in the corporate world. Right, how much? If you sit back and think about it, how much did you really care if you were helping the company to grow right? Was it just a salary for you or were you invested in it? And I think that, for me personally, the happier I was at my job, the more involved I was in being proud of what I had to contribute and being proud in seeing the company do well, and to me, that was when I was happiest, and that's how I want my employees to be. I want them to be happy to watch us grow together and to be proud to be part of that vision, and a lot of that absolutely requires, number one, that I pay them fairly and give them bonuses for jobs well done, which I actually do to keep them motivated. And also very much what you said listen and be open for feedback, not just giving orders or saying here, do this, but listening to them if they're inspired and motivated to want to help grow the business.  08:41 And I'm so fortunate to have a wonderful team that works with me that I think I can proudly say that I have had two people that have worked for me for over five years, if not coming up on eight to 10 years of working with me. So I needed to every year make sure that I was keeping them inspired and motivated and happy and giving them compensation when they're due, Like I'll give them. Oh, you know what I really appreciate that job that you did. Here's a $100 Amazon gift certificate, and that also requires, when you're an employer, you have to be comfortable with paying people. I mean, I think there's a whole mental thing about that, right. It's like, oh my God, you have to be confident enough in your business so that you're not worried about money all the time. Have that confidence, right, I will have the money to pay. And you have to secure those systems in place, right, so that you can pay.  09:37 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah, I mean it can be for some VO bosses out there like a one-time thing. I have this one task and that make it a contract thing and once it's done, it's done. But when we're talking about having assistance or help, that is helping on an ongoing basis. That means ongoing pay. And, to your point, when I was working in the corporate world, to be honest with you, I was happiest when I was making the type of money that would allow me to live the life that I wanted to live.  10:02 And I wasn't really thrilled about anything else other than how it affected my life. And money affects my life in so many different ways.  10:11 So it's really just making sure that you can keep people fair in their compensation, but also make sure that you're paying on time oh yeah, I like to get paid on time for the work that I've done. And making sure that you can pay on time and to your point, it's making sure that you have the resources and the money and the revenue coming into your business, that paying your assistance is not a monthly freak out moment.  10:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly that's so, so important. Yeah, I like how you said that, yes, it was all about like money was something that made you comfortable, right, that you were being paid and being compensated on time, to the point where that's what made you want to work for that company, being paid well. And also, I will say back in my younger days, I was being paid well and I had the bonus that I was really proud of how I was contributing to the company and I really believed in the company. So that was like such an added bonus and actually I think that it really set a lot for like why I was in the career I was in for that length of time because I was happy, both compensation-wise and also like motivation-wise and purpose-wise. So I do feel that when you have assistants, if you want to, let's say, have them for any period of time, maybe you're just hiring them for one job and it's one and done. But if you do want to have them on an ongoing basis, there's also a whole relationship that becomes important for you to develop with them so that they look forward to doing whatever they're doing for you and it's not just a boring job that doesn't give them any joy. So whatever you can do to make that joyful for them and make them want to continue to work for you and want to continue to grow the business Financially wise.  11:55 It is a thing that I do every month. I have them send me invoices and I have different people that I pay at different times of the month, and so I want to make sure that I'm paying them in a way that I'm not like PayPal, where fees get taken out, so it's pretty much bank to bank sort of transaction wise. And when I do that, also it's important to have my accountant who knows what I'm paying, because technically speaking, right and we were just talking about this earlier If I pay over a certain amount to someone, I do need to declare that on my taxes. So having a good bookkeeper slash accountant that can understand, okay, this money is being used to pay my employees.  12:37 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah, and we talked about this earlier how does your bookkeeper or accountant account for the services that's happening? So these are business expenses, these are business services that they are providing, and you are paying for the service of having someone you know run your business.  12:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They're like a vendor. Can you really say they're an employee if they're an independent contractor? Not really right, because independent contractor is more like a vendor. For you, sure, and for, I think, most of us. For me, that's what it is. I don't actually employ someone where I'm paying health benefits or anything like that. So, I want to make that distinction where I'm not that type of corporation where I'm paying somebody full time and they're getting health benefits, I'm paying an independent contractor, but I still also have to account for that to the IRS.  13:23 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah, and most VO bosses will probably find themselves in a similar position. I also have essentially a vendor, a contractor, who I'm not paying their health insurance and pension and things like that, as we did when we were working in the corporate world. So it's a different distinction. But it also requires the level of bookkeeping and making sure that you know how much you've paid them throughout the course of the year so that you can get them the correct tax form at the end of the year. And that means working with an accountant or working with a financial professional who can help you do that, unless you feel super confident in doing it yourself. But if you're running a business, in my opinion, and you are paying someone to help you run your business, another part of that is paying someone to help you keep track of the finances of your business.  14:10 It all works together.  14:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely. I do think that ongoing education for your contractors or employers is important. Oh yeah, in terms of, first of all, I make sure that I meet with my people, at least my assistants that do the majority of, let's say, my social media work or marketing work, that sort of thing. I make sure that we meet once a week actually, and that works for us in our business. But I don't necessarily meet with my audio editor at all. That's usually done through email and then after a month's worth of podcast audio editing he'll send me an invoice.  14:42 But anybody that's doing work for me that requires a little bit more than just audio editing. That might require helping me grow my business out there on social media, which I think is important that they know me and they know what I'm looking for and that I can specify that. And I don't like to micromanage at all because, frankly, I'm busy and so it takes some time to get the right employee right that you trust to handle things A control freak like me. In case anybody didn't realize that you know, A-type personality.  15:17 For me to give up power and just say go ahead, please do this for me and be okay with that was a big step for me as an employer, because I'm very much a control freak. I very much said, well, I can't hire somebody to do it because they're not going to do it as well as I do. Yeah, exactly, and you have to give up. That's a big mental aspect. You have to give that up because there are people who are better than you at certain things. And why not, right, hire someone like we talked about with a financial accountant or bookkeeper? Right, why not hire somebody that that's what they love to do and that's all they do? I want people that are better than me doing things for my business to grow my business. So you've got to give up that ego, the fact that nobody but you can do it. Right, you have to really place trust in your employees, because when you do that and you hire people that are better than you, that's what's going to grow your business.  16:09 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Oh, absolutely, and a huge part of that is communication. As you said, you meet with your team once a week. I also have a weekly In person.  16:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, not in person, I shouldn't say on Zoom.  16:19 - Danielle Famble (Guest) On Zoom.  16:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Like a Zoom. I don't just text back and forth. Although I do text a lot of times, but-.  16:24 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Right.  16:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We meet on a Zoom meeting. On a Zoom meeting.  16:26 - Danielle Famble (Guest) I also with my assistant. We meet once a week on a Zoom call and then we use Slack to communicate. We communicate via Slack every single day and at the end of our meetings I always say, if you need anything, I'll be in Slack. I mean, it's the way to get to me as quickly as possible. I love Slack.  16:42 Yeah we talk every single day and the more communication actually the better, because then that person gets to know you and they can kind of hear your voice and your tone of voice and how you're wanting things done. They get to know your style, how you give feedback. That open communication actually really just helps person to person. You're dealing with, in some ways, hopefully a human being who can really start to craft what they do to who you are, because this is a brand about your personality, about your voice, about your style so it's huge.  17:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I really do feel that I make it a point to express my appreciation frequently to my assistants, because they're like my right-hand people in reality and I'm always like, oh God, I appreciate you guys, thank you so much. I'm always making sure to do that because, again, I want them to feel appreciated. A thank you goes a long way to really having employees work their best for you, which is what you want. I mean, you're investing money in your employees as well as your business, right? So you want to make sure that your investment is going to pay off for you. And now here's the question what if you hire someone that is not necessarily working out well for you? What are your best tips for that? Because that's happened to me too, and that's not always easy as a boss to fire someone.  17:56 - Danielle Famble (Guest) It is not always easy. It is a very real possibility. Whenever you bring anyone into your business as a contractor, as a one-time gig work, whatever, whenever you bring someone in, it's very real possibility that it doesn't work. So I think, before you bring that person in, have a very clear understanding, write it down. I would even say with what it is that you are looking for, what are the checks and how do you know if this person is working or not working.  18:22 Have the metrics so that you can say hey, this is what I'm hoping to accomplish, this is what I need, and you know if that person has it or not.  18:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, and you bring up a really good point, because when you say, write it down, so everybody that works for me has to sign an.  18:40 NDA right Number one and they have a contract Like I have a statement of work, here's what I expect, here's what you'll be paid, here are like the terms, and you can actually create that NDA or that contract fairly simply.  18:54 I have a lawyer that I hire all the time, but there are templates out all over the place, but that kind of keeps me I feel legally secure, so that, let's say, I'm discussing something about growing my business, that I don't want them to go out and then implement, which is always like an issue when you hire people within the same industry, because if they work for you and then you discuss ideas like here's how I want to grow my business, what's to stop them from necessarily taking those ideas and implementing for their own business? And sometimes I'm not saying that I'm completely possessive, but there were cases. A long time ago, I hired somebody to work on development of this podcast and there were a lot of ideas that were flying around about how to grow which then, after the person did not work out for me, ended up somehow being implemented by them. And so that's just one of those things. I think. To safeguard your own business and your personal brand, you need to have a contract in place.  19:50 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Absolutely. I think having a contract in place again, this is, you're running a business and so doing the things that businesses do to keep themselves safe. Contracts are a huge part of it. Ndas are a huge part of it. Sometimes I have to sign an NDA in order to audition.  20:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, yeah exactly.  20:06 - Danielle Famble (Guest) There needs to be that sort of level of secrecy and security. So that's incredibly important and making sure that the person understands why and understands what they're assigning is incredibly important as well. So there are so many layers to it, not just oh, I need help with my marketing, let me just bring somebody in. It goes deeper than that and to your point of if it doesn't work out, have the off-ramp. How do you offload this person from your business? How do you off-board them? And understanding, like, what does that look like? And it needs to take time.  20:39 But before you get to that point, I would ask the VO boss themselves if it didn't work out, why? If it's a personality thing, completely understand that happens too, because personality traits if you're working with someone, you need to be able to work with that person. But if it didn't work out because they weren't doing things correctly, did you train them correctly? Really understanding, like your role in it? Because, as the boss, it is your responsibility to make sure that you are running the business, your business the way that you want it to be run, and it needs to be run If the people that you've brought into your business are not living up to your expectations. Did you set the right expectations, did you communicate those expectations to them, did you provide feedback on those expectations and then did you give consequences for what is going to happen if those expectations are not met?  21:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely. I mean that is employer 101 right there. Absolutely, and that's covering yourself, and you want to make sure that you've covered yourself because your assistants have potential access to your life. I mean a lot of times like they'll have passwords to social media accounts. My accountant has the password to my QuickBooks. I mean my gosh.  21:48 Essentially, that could be very damaging if that person was not ethical right, and so there's a lot at stake for you. Passwords, personal accounts, branding, I mean just so many things that you're going to entrust them with. And I realize that, as an employer, again, as I said, if you're that type of person that says I'm the only one that can do it correctly or I'm worried about that, that is a mental thing that you will have to step back and take a look at. If you want to hire somebody and make sure that, if that is the case now, you want to make sure that you're protected, and so that requires NDAs, that requires contracts, and again, mine were not difficult. A consult with a lawyer that had me fine tune. A template for a contract for working for me worked, and all I have to do when I hire somebody else is just change the amount they're getting paid and change the name and change the address and then have them sign it before you start giving them access to your life and your business, because that is sacred to you.  22:44 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah, and it's a vulnerable thing, like you are putting yourself knowingly in a vulnerable position where other people know intimate details about your life and your business.  22:56 - Intro (Announcement) However, large or small you?  22:58 - Danielle Famble (Guest) want to give out that information and if you are not prepared for that mentally going into it, it's a really hard transition to make when that person is actually there. I would say really ask yourself are you mentally prepared to be a boss of other people? Are you financially prepared to pay them and the finances not be a thing that other people? Are you financially prepared to pay them and the finances not be a thing that stresses you out, Because this entire process is quite a lot and are you ready to manage? Are you ready to share your vision and make sure that your vision is being executed by other people, that's not just you. All good stuff.  23:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And in the end, guys, I promise you, it may be scary, it's worth it but.  23:38 I'll tell you what it's worth it, and it's the only way, I believe, that I could have grown my business to the point that it has grown and to allow me the freedom. I'm a little bit of a serial entrepreneur and I think, danielle, you probably are too, and so it's been the only way that I've been able to really do the things that I want to do in my businesses, to progress and move forward, and it's taught me a lot. Being a VO boss number one just in my voiceover career, but also being an actual boss, has taught me so much about myself and helped me to grow personally as well as professionally. So I think it's a win-win. It's a challenge and it's scary, but it's so worth it, oh man.  24:19 - Danielle Famble (Guest) I couldn't agree more. You learn so much about yourself when you are now responsible for other people. I'm not a parent, but I can imagine there's a very humbling sense when you become a parent, that you are now responsible for this other person and you have to think about yourself and them in a different way. Similarly with business, you learn so much about yourself, your capacity to lead, your desire to lead, your generosity, all of those things when you have someone else that you are bringing into this thing that you created your business. It is a journey. You'll run into adversity, you will have to figure it out, and then you learn about yourself how you're able to do that. And once you learn those things about yourself, the next hurdle may be just around the corner, but you know that you've been able to do it in the past. So that resilience, really that muscle builds up. It's totally worth it. I would not be able to have the business that I have if I was responsible for doing everything. You can only do so much with the amount of time.  25:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You're only one person. You have only so many hours exactly in the day. So, oh, I love this conversation. Thank you so much, Danielle.  25:28 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah, this is great, I love it.  25:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) For having this conversation with me. Bosses, I'm going to give a big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too can be a boss. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.  25:44 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Join us as we dive into Anne's enlightening experience at the Podcast Movement conference in Washington, DC. Discover the critical lessons Anne learned by stepping out of the voiceover industry bubble and mingling with top podcasters and corporate reps. The BOSSES tackle the complexities of measuring podcast success, the evolving role of advertisements, and the innovative strategies that can set your podcast apart. Passion and authenticity are at the heart of this episode as we explore how genuine storytelling can elevate both podcasting and voice acting careers. Learn why being relatable and embracing video content is more important than ever for voice actors. Consistency and authenticity are key, and we provide practical tips for maintaining a successful show. Finally, we wrap up with advice on continuous personal and professional development, reminding you to stay proactive and always seek growth opportunities. 00:02 - Bonnie Marie Williams (Ad) Hi, this is Bonnie Marie Williams, and I was listening to VOBoss for years before I began working on the show. It was actually the first voiceover podcast I ever heard and I absolutely fell in love with it the energy, the humor and how much information it provides to the voiceover community. But what I love most about VOBoss is how it takes on the current topics in the industry, how it discusses things we really should be talking about, all of the positivity and how much time and energy Ann devotes to the show to make it so valuable for all of us. I mean, we just want to rock our businesses like a boss, right? So, ann, thank you for bringing me into the boss family and for all you do for bosses everywhere.  00:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey guys, Anne Ganguzza here. Imagine a voiceover journey where every step is filled with discovery and growth. That's the path I want to work on with you, Through nurturing coaching and creative demo production. Let's unveil the true potential of your voice together. It's not just about the destination, it's about the gorgeous journey getting there. Are you ready to take the first step? Connect with me at anneganguzza.com.  01:17 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  01:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am delighted to be here and it seems like it's been forever with my bestie, Lau Lapides. Hey Lau, how are you?  01:52 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Hey, annie, it has been forever. It's been, I don't know, two months or whatever. It's been, but two months for us is like two years.  02:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So much happens. It's been too long. I mean, a lot of things have been happening. I just got back from podcast movement in DC and I had a really good experience there that I wanted to share some takeaways if you didn't mind.  02:15 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Actually, that's cool. I was going to ask you about that because so many of us and certainly us as talent as well are doing podcasts or want to do podcasts, and that kind of a movement is something we want to know about. So, please, sharing is caring.  02:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I had a lot of takeaways. Number one was, first and foremost, it was so nice for me to get outside of my bubble, outside of my studio bubble, my dealing with voice talent, voice actors and people in the industry. Not that I don't love dealing with people in the industry, but actually going to a conference and immersing myself into a marketplace where I want to sell to right, because there are podcasters here, which, yeah, of course, I have some podcast consulting services, of course, but I mean that wasn't my primary purpose. My primary purpose was to mingle with the corporates, because, guess what, everything I do voiceover right, corporate narration, commercial all of this really directs itself to that market. And it's so nice to be able to immerse yourself in that market and just, hey guys, this might be a novel idea, but just listen, right, listen to what your potential clients need, what are their problems, what sort of frustrations are they experiencing and how can you, with your voice or your voiceover product, help them?  03:45 - Lau Lapides (Guest) them. Annie, can you give us the infrastructure of it, because I don't know about that particular world in terms of what a trade show or a convention would look like for podcasters. What did it look like? How many folks were there? How long was it? Did you meet any like top level podcasters who we need to know about? Oh, yeah, I did.  04:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I met celebrities. There's like celebrity podcasters the Diary of a CEO those of you that listen to podcasts. I met the scrappy podcaster. I met the guy who actually, you know, is in all the videos for Riverside too. So the conference was four days long and it was in DC, and this one in particular, it was a little bit more corporate centric. I go to two of them every year.  04:23 The other one is PodFest, which is very much creatives like ourselves, independent creatives, a lot of hey, I've got this show and how can I make money with this show? That's really like the question on everybody's mind and I know that anybody who's ever asked me about podcasting is like, well, how can I make money? And I'm always like, well, don't bank on that right away or don't depend on that, because it is a passion project for the most part. But this show had a little more of a corporate audience, a lot of those people that are really looking to try to get an ROI, not just from the podcast but about advertising, advertisements on podcasts and those of you that listen to the VO Boss podcast know that very recently I've been actually adding some advertisements on for my own business. Now we've been doing the VO Boss podcast for about eight years and I thought well gosh, maybe it's time that I do one or two. One or two, I mean you know you guys listen to my podcast.  05:17 I can tell you, hey, look, I also offer these things, but it's all about how do you measure success of a podcast. How do you measure if you have ads running in your podcast? Are they effective? Are people listening to the ads or are they fast forwarding through the ads? And so the overall feel that I got from the conference is that there's so many different platforms right now there's. You know how do you listen to your podcast? Is it on Apple podcast, is it on Spotify, is it on YouTube?  05:43 And they all have their own measurements, their own stats, and so what advertisers want to know is how many people are listening to your podcast, and sometimes that's really difficult to tell unless you have the statistics. And then these statistics don't all come together so that you can say, overall I have 1 million downloads, or I know from my service provider, my RSS feed provider, how many downloads I have, and that can give you a fairly decent number. But again, they've changed the way that they've measured those stats as well. So a lot of times the corporations or the people that are advertising want to know how can I get ROI on this investment if I'm going to spend money for ads and the other thing which is really important is that there's a lot of people that do ads on podcasts and they sound very different from the podcast, right, because we've got you and me just bantering back and forth and then all of a sudden they've got hey, it's allergy season.  06:38 - Bonnie Marie Williams (Ad) What happens?  06:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) is, the podcast host doesn't necessarily do voiceover for a living, so what they might read might sound a little stilted, so that was really interesting to understand that. Okay, I understand how I might be able to serve them by doing ads or by helping them do their ads better, that kind of a thing, but it was really wonderful to just sit and listen and learn oh my gosh for four days all about the things that I've been doing for eight years on this podcast, and a lot of it was very validating.  07:08 - Lau Lapides (Guest) And now the one you went to was in DC. Right, that sounds like a really large a really big one. Did you find that there were people that you could meet? That really helped you understand the road to sponsorship? And the understanding of, like, how you sell ads and how you get into that place because I think that's where a lot of early entry podcasters fall down is like they can create a great program and they can get it launched and it sounds terrific, but what happens next?  07:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, the thing is is that you really need listenership, you really need people who follow. I mean, everybody refers to Joe Rogan, right? Of course, if you're an advertiser, you want to advertise on Joe Rogan's, but when you're first starting out, you need to first of all make sure that your content if you have a podcast and I think every voice talent should have a podcast, because, gosh, we're equipped for it, we have like really great sound already, and so it just makes sense that if you are a voice actor, it doesn't cost you anything necessarily except for your time right now. If you have a passion, talk about that. I mean, over and over and over again, what I heard as the theme is that podcasters are storytellers and guess what, so are voice actors. Yes, so if you have a topic that you're passionate about, I think you can start a podcast on.  08:22 - Lau Lapides (Guest) I mean it doesn't have to be about voiceover. Now, when you go into podcasting because I've been doing podcasting for a number of years as well the question is you go into it because you love it, you have a passion for it, you want to educate, you want to tell a story, mm-hmm. But how do people know when and if they're ready to monetize? That's a big question. I think in the podcast world, absolutely, you've been doing it for eight years.  08:46 That's a long time to do a podcast while you're running a business and while you're doing everything in your life yeah. So when and if you should monetize how that happens.  08:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, you know, that's a really great question and that is, like I swear it's the question on everybody's mind, even at this conference, like how do you monetize? I mean, what are the questions that get answered right in podcast? What are the big questions of the day? The big question is how do I know who's listening? Right? How do I track my downloads? How do I grow my podcast? That's the other question, asking the same questions, right, because it is such a popular medium.  09:23 When you get somebody like I'm going to say, joe Rogan or any of the more celebrity podcasts where you get a lot of people's ears right, listening, that is an opportunity to sell and so, while the logistics aren't necessarily quite there yet, you have to showcase that number one. You've got listenership. You've got listenership, you've got a following. Now VO Boss has a following, and it's a very faithful following, because, for me, when I was telling people about my podcast, I would say, okay, I have been a podcast for eight years and while my numbers may not be, I do have close to a million downloads. I mean very close to it.  09:57 Actually, I haven't looked in the last few months, so I probably have a million downloads, but it's over a course of time, right, and so what advertisers want to know is how many downloads per episode are you getting, and that kind of gives them an idea of how many ears they have listening to their potential ads. And then, of course, it has to be on the effectiveness of the ad, and I had an interview with Steve Pogac, who is with SiriusXM and Pandora, talking about podcast ads. It's kind of the new area where advertisers are really interested because they've got potential ears to do the selling. Again, it's just you've got to be able to prove to those advertisers that you have downloads, and so right now you have to use the methods that are with you. I mean, there are separate methods. Apple has their own stats, spotify has their own stats, youtube- has their own stats.  10:46 And what's interesting is that while we're doing this now on video right, whereas before we were strictly audio we're now also on video. So it's kind of like, well, let's use YouTube and put shorts out there, which is it was good, that was validation for me I heard that again and again was to use YouTube for shorts to kind of draw your audience into the audio podcast.  11:08 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Love that when you think about like discussion about synthetic voices.  11:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, we're in the wild wild west. Well, guess what? We're in the wild wild west of advertising and podcasting. Right, and seeing if podcasting is a popular medium, we know about that. We know that as voice actors we are primed to be great podcasters, because we've got the technical worked out already for the most part. Right, we've got the technical. And if you've studied enough, you know how to storytell. You know how to storytell, you can certainly transition to any kind of ads really well. And of course, there's the other thing. Law and I know you'll like this is that there's a lot of ads that are done with improv. Celebrity endorsements do a ton of improv while they're doing the advertisements.  11:46 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Isn't that cool.  11:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There's another skill that voice actors have, so it really translates well and, if nothing else, right. It costs you your time and, as you and I have discovered, right and I've discovered, after eight years of having this podcast and you since you've come on with me, people now say oh my gosh, I love listening to you guys.  12:06 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Right.  12:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Like they met you by listening to you on the podcast. That's absolutely a way to reach out to potential clients or potential people, no question.  12:14 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Fantastic and I can say personally that you know, in the last two years, or however long we've been working together on the podcast, god, how long has it been? Almost two years, I think.  12:23 It might be longer when I'm flying around and people come up to me and say I love your podcast. For a second I'm like, oh, the VO boss. They're like, yeah, you girls are great. It's a weird thing if you're not used to it, because there's that disconnect, there's that sense of disconnect from your audience that you know the audience is there, you see them, they're there, but if you're not meeting them, yeah and you don't know them, you may not hear back from them, the feedback you may not hear back from them.  12:53 It's really incredible.  12:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's the engagement. A lot of it was talking about engagement and again, so many parallels to voice so many parallels so many parallels. You have to engage your audience and I'm going to tell you. One of the things about podcasting is that we engage people through audio right and or video, if people are watching us, if they like to see the two of us talk to each other. It's all about engaging and being interesting, and it's either educational or it's entertaining, right? No?  13:20 - Intro (Announcement) question Whenever.  13:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I was watching a presentation on the stage with any well-known podcaster when they were speaking about that podcast, it was all about their storytelling and it was all about how it was their passion to talk about a particular subject, something that they loved, they were passionate about, and that's what caused and everybody's like.  13:40 Well, how do you go viral? Right, I mean, there is no magic solution to going viral. I think a lot of it is being engaging right with your audience, and then you got to get it in front of your audience's eyes, very similar to our own businesses, right? So how do you grow your podcast audience the same way you grow your business and voice acting? Right, you've got to get yourself in front of the eyes of your potential clients or your potential listeners. So it was really so wonderful to be validated in so many different areas, because a lot of times, like you said, we're podcasting out into the air and I don't always hear anything about it unless I speak to someone and they say, oh my God, I love your podcast or I love what you said about this.  14:19 And what's really cool is then you get the benefit, you reap the rewards of being an instrument and being able to hopefully motivate and inspire somebody.  14:28 - Lau Lapides (Guest) It's incredible and you and I we get letters like all the time, literally every single month, that says I just want to let you know that I can't get in my booth on a Saturday morning without listening to the podcast and hearing your motivation and hearing what you have to say and on the most literal basis, you don't realize what kind of impact you can make on someone's life by just speaking and speaking a truth and speaking an experience that is maybe common to their experience, or maybe the next level to their experience, when they're stuck and they don't know where to go.  15:04 It's incredibly powerful and I'm just honored to be a part of that. But I think you scared a lot of people when you said, or reminded us because this is not a new thing that we're also on video too. We're also on camera as well, because a lot of voiceover talent traditionally went into voiceover so that they wouldn't be on camera. They say, with all due respect, I don't want to put makeup on, I don't want to look good, I've got the face for radio.  15:28 - Bonnie Marie Williams (Ad) I don't want to look good, right.  15:29 - Lau Lapides (Guest) And I said no, no, you can't look at it that way any longer, because you've got to market your business, your podcast, your voice, and you have to do that on video now.  15:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) If you think about it and this is the trend, right, also, like on camera work, right, it's not about you don't have to be beautiful and young and pretty and handsome anymore.  15:47 It's all about authenticity, it's all about being able to engage with your audience, and so we invite right the perfectly imperfect, perfectly imperfect I want to hear and see like imperfections, because I know that I'm not alone, right, when that happens, and that's for on camera, that's for audio, that's all of that Just being able to be authentic and really communicate and reach out to your audience, just like we have to do being voice actors. It's becoming more and more and more prevalent every day. That that's really what we have to do, I mean, and that's what we like, I mean as humans, like, why do you think reality shows became so popular? I mean, it wasn't about the perfection of people on a sitcom or a drama or you know, it was real people and we're real people and we can talk about real things, and so if you guys are thinking about a podcast, please gosh don't.  16:41 We don't need another voiceover podcast, I don't know Exactly.  16:45 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Talk about something that you're passionate about, that you can engage with other people, and it shouldn't be any surprise that, you know, when we're auditioning as voiceover talent and we see that breakdown of relatable and real and conversational. Well, that's what we want to see as well.  17:02 If we're seeing the visual of you. We don't want to see you on as the 70s announcer, nor do we want to see you on as the supermodel of the 80s or 90s. Really, the real person works more often as an actor and talent than the aesthetically beautiful person according to the industry, and gets cast more often because it really represents the demographic of the people.  17:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Sure Right. It cuts through the chaos of something being like anticipated or expected or stereotypical right.  17:36 - Lau Lapides (Guest) There's an empathy factor too. I mean, I want to see someone who kind of is me. There's a deeply psychological aspect to everything we see and hear in entertainment. I would gather that a lot of folks and I ask them. When they talk to me about your podcast, I say why do you like it? Why do you follow it? What is it doing for you? They say I feel like you are me, I feel like you understand me, I feel like you're almost in my head, Right Like the voice in my head, and I think, oh, that's a lot of responsibility. I better be careful what I say. Isn't that true? It is true when you talk about influencers.  18:13 I always think of the influencer as like the young Gen Z or the young, young millennial who's on social media, but that's really not true. The influencer is anyone right who is out there in the public square and really is connecting to their audience. They can have very powerful influence, positive and negative. So be careful what you say, be careful how you present yourself, be careful and just be thoughtful about it, because you can impact a lot of people. Now, from a marketing perspective, that's great, because for the people that don't know anything about marketing or are a little scared of it, you know you can have a huge influence on people just by being visible.  18:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely Absolutely, and it just amazed me the amount of parallels. You think I would have figured this out by now, but it was good reinforcement as I went to this conference. So I highly highly encourage you, if you can get out there, listen, find the people that you're trying to sell to, if you can get to a conference. Conferences are great because I had presentations to go to and I also had vendor booths that I could visit, right, and so the interaction. I really listened to the interactions in both instances and I noticed that when people were on stage talking about something they were passionate about, you know, I have this little pet peeve about millennials have a potential to upspeak and I'm always telling people when we're doing corporate please don't upspeak, because it makes you sound a little less confident, and I want you to be confident about your product. So, when there was the occasion for me to go to a booth and speak to someone about their product, right, and I encountered a millennial, yes, upspeak is alive and well. However, when that same millennial was up on stage and this happened on more than one occasion, right, no matter who was up on stage talking, discussing, interviewing, interacting and speaking about their passion there was absolutely no up speak. Maybe once in a while there was one word or two, but nothing that was consistent, Because I think it presented a different kind of situation and I think that as actors we need to always read those situations, like, perhaps for a commercial, you're going to have that kind of casual engagement where upspeak is absolutely desired, but maybe in another instance you need to sound more authoritative about that product or confident that you're sure that it's going to help someone and therefore maybe upspeak isn't as appropriate.  20:35 So that was just an interesting little tidbit and, trust me, I listen really hard because, you know, I'm a coach, I want to be a better coach and so I want to be able to communicate with my potential client better. So first and foremost is listen. And you guys, even if you can't get to a conference, you can do this online, right, you can join groups that are not necessarily just voiceover groups. You can join e-learning groups, you can join a company newsletter, look at how the company talks to their potential clients, and then you can just really learn about in what situation and how you might talk, the tone of voice that you might use, the emotion that goes along with it. It could be for a quirky brand that has a little bit of humor in it. It could be for a quirky brand that has a little bit of humor in it. It could be for a brand that's a little more serious and a little more formal, a little more suit and tie kind of thing, and you adjust your performance accordingly.  21:23 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Now, you were talking earlier to me, before we started recording about at the podcast forum. They were talking about memberships and I thought that was very fascinating, thinking about creating content and how you can get your subscription base or membership base going with supplying that content. What did you learn from that one? What did you take away on that?  21:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) one. So that was advertisers, who again were looking to monetize, right, and so until they felt that people have the capability of fast-forwarding through an ad that might be on the podcast, However, if they need to subscribe or have a membership in order to get to that content, if let's say the content is valuable and it's something I've thought about doing for VIA Boss having a certain amount of episodes that are bonus content, which then help fund the cost, because, as we know, and as I've spoken about multiple times, this does not run itself. I mean you and I, you know it takes our and, as I've spoken about multiple times, this does not run itself. I mean you and I, you know it takes our time. And then I literally have a team of people that help me to distribute this podcast and put show notes up there, to advertise it on social media. There's just lots and lots of components to the spokes in the wheel, whatever you might call it, but there's a lot of things at play here and it's not free.  22:34 So it's helpful to be able to recoup some of those costs and even monetize the living, make a little bit of money, because I mean, this is our time and we do talk about all the time. Law right, we need to charge what we're worth. If somebody said to me well, do you feel bad charging for a podcast when most people can listen for free? Well, you know, honestly, I've been doing it for eight years. I've given over 400 episodes for free. To be quite honest, if somebody wanted to donate three to five dollars, maybe a month.  23:04 - Lau Lapides (Guest) I don't think that's unreasonable, I think it's fantastic. I think it's a great idea and makes total, total sense. I have a feeling that's something that a lot of podcasters are going to be doing. They're going to be interested in doing that, mm hmm, because no one really realizes except for you, annie, how much goes into it until they start doing it.  23:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Until they do it.  23:20 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Oh, I'll just talk. You know it's the old voiceover, read a paper and talk, but they don't really realize to produce something, yeah, something of value, something specific, something that has guests, something that has planning. Producing engineering it costs, it's an investment. Yeah, engineering it costs, it's an investment?  23:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely. And getting yourself out of your bubble and going out and really researching the market in which you want to sell, I think is so, so, very helpful for our businesses so that we can grow and serve those businesses and voice acting. This whole industry is evolving, like as we speak, minute by minute. Things are happening on the AI and synthetic end of things in the market. The economy has a lot to do with it and we really need to understand what's happening out there and evolve along with what our clients are asking for so that we can serve them better, because we can have a great voice. But if we don't know how to serve somebody with that voice or how to help them solve their problems, then we kind of sit here just having a great voice, exactly.  24:23 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Which is great.  24:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But you know, then you and I can just talk with our great voices, but it may not get us anywhere. It may not pay the bills Very true, In which case? By the way, even if you don't get advertisers right away in your podcast, the fact remains that you are putting yourself out there, you're putting your brand out there, and that is a form of marketing all in of itself.  24:42 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Do you have tips, annie, for people who want to either start a podcast or who are early like within the first year of doing their podcast of what they should be thinking about or be planning for, so that they don't fall into any holes along the way?  24:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's a great question. The one thing that you absolutely have to be concrete on right now is kind of like your why, like why do you want a podcast and what is your topic and is it something that you can sustain? Because consistency once you get people who start listening, they expect consistency. It's like look on my run every morning I want to be able to turn on the latest podcast of right, or I want to be able to. It becomes a thing. So content creators, like everywhere, know how it's difficult to create content. It takes a lot of time.  25:29 So figure out what it is that you want to talk about, what it is that you can consistently deliver on a regular basis to an audience. And one thing I definitely found out is that these kind of serial podcasts that only have like six to eight episodes they don't do well. They don't do well with advertisers. Advertisers don't want to invest in that because they can't expect a great return on investment. It's got to be something where your audience can grow, where you can continue to get the ear of the listener, and so really try to find your why. Try to find whatever it is that you want to talk about and then be consistent about it Now. You don't have to hire out like I do right now for my podcast. I mean, I did everything on my own to begin with, and so you can start simple and commit to what you can do and make it a priority that you deliver consistently, consistently, consistently.  26:22 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Love that. So it doesn't have to be constant, it's just consistent, yeah, absolutely, which makes a lot of sense. And being authentic, yeah, and really caring about what your audience cares, about the pain points they have, what problems they have to solve and connect to Right. And also I would add into that that like what style you want that podcast to be in Do you?  26:43 want to have a lot of humor. Is it very serious? Is it meditative, is it calming, like, think about the kind of style that you want to have, and are you having guests on, or is it really you speaking from your point of view? I mean, these are just kind of basic things that we have to be thinking about it from the beginning. Also, how long Like you and I are really consistent about our time, we typically go about 25 minutes per episode.  27:08 Like how long can you talk? How long do you want to speak about your?  27:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) topic. I mean, gosh, some are hours long. You know what I mean. Some of the best video ones are hours long where there's something visual to look at, and I think Joe Rogan's is, I don't know, an hour or two hours. I have not listened recently, but really I mean we try to keep ours. I think the stats say anywhere from about this time 30 minutes, but honestly, I think it depends on the content and what you're talking about and just really feel that out and try to make that consistent as well.  27:36 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Well, you know, thanks for bringing this to our attention, because this is a world. It's not a new world, but it's an ever-growing world. Yes, absolutely, and it's becoming complex and very nuanced. And it's something that a lot of talent of all different backgrounds really want to know about and want to be doing and be plugged into it.  27:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So this is kind of exciting news and I'm excited because I got another podcast that's formulating on the back end. So stay tuned, guys. Something new is coming along for me and I'm very excited. Probably be launching that sometime I don't know later this year, so look for that and I'm very excited.  28:10 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Keep growing, keep expanding, keep creating and keep developing that's really the name of the game, isn't it? Absolutely? Throughout your lifetime, Fabulous.  28:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Thanks, law, good conversation. Thanks for asking me about it. I had a great experience and I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses and find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.  28:39 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

This episode is all about maximizing your business potential, whether you're just starting out or already established in the market.  Learn how to leverage casting platforms for direct bookings and master direct marketing strategies. This episode is packed with actionable insights to increase your return on investment. Implementing mid-year performance reviews can be a game-changer for your business, using powerful tools like cash flow spreadsheets and client churn reports to meticulously track your financials and client engagement. Discover the added value of integrating financial data to set and achieve your financial goals, ensuring sustained success. Explore how to turn one-off projects into recurring gigs and the crucial role of tracking booking sources. Learn how to use social media, direct emails, and client referrals to build a solid client base. 00:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, who says marketing can't be as creative as voice acting? With a VO Boss Blast, we're proving it can be. Let us create a marketing campaign that helps get you hired. Our master list of over 90,000 creative contacts can get your message in front of your potential buyers. Find out more at vobosscom. That's the VO Boss Blast at voboss.com. That's the Voboss Blast at Voboss.com.  00:29 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a Voboss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Real Boss Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with the illustrious Mr Tom Dheere.  00:58 - Tom Dheere (Host) Hello, hello, oh, I'm illustrious now this is very exciting.  01:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You are illustrious, you are illustrious. Oh my gosh Tom, how's your week been?  01:06 - Tom Dheere (Host) My week's been. It's been pretty good. It's been pretty busy. It's one of those weird times of year this is early summer when we're recording this and people are at schools getting out and people are starting to figure out. You know they get their lighting up their vacations and all that stuff.  01:25 So you know, I'm using this time to capitalize on how I'm going to figure out what I'm going to be doing with the second half of my year, because I always, at the end of the halfway point of the year, I take a look at my voiceover business, see how it's doing, what's working and what isn't, and if I need to make any adjustments for the second half of the year.  01:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think that's an excellent idea because, as a matter of fact, I was just this week. I got an email from my email service provider who notified me that they were going to increase the cost of my yearly fee almost like one and a half times as much, and so I was like, oh, I've got to really sit back and take a look at my return on investment, and so I think that is something that bosses need to do absolutely to make sure that their businesses are on track and make sure that their growth is happening. And if it doesn't appear that it is happening, maybe how do you evaluate growth that can happen in the future?  02:17 - Tom Dheere (Host) So, yeah, Okay, so, oh, there's so much to talk about with this one. But, bosses, if there's one thing I want you to walk away with, is that the industry changes constantly. What used to work may not work as well as it used to, or it may not work at all anymore. In my 25 years of being in the voiceover industry, effectiveness is really the key to be a voice actor, and learning what it takes to become effective early in your journey as opposed to what's effective later on in your voiceover journey.  02:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Like mailing CDs to potential clients. I just had to say that which I did, which I did.  02:58 - Tom Dheere (Host) So did I. Let me tell you, my post office hated me so much because I'd come in with a lawn bag of padded mailers and they'd be like oh.  03:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I used to have to walk to my voiceover studio for 10 miles in the snow.  03:11 - Tom Dheere (Host) Sorry, Uphill both ways.  03:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Uphill Anyways. So yeah, how do we determine how effective our businesses are and how do we strategize moving forward?  03:21 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. The ultimate determiner is like how much money am I making? And it's like, okay, did I make more money than I did last year or week or quarter? So that's obviously an indicator. But that's a very broad brushstroke because, like I've noticed over the years, because I track my voiceover revenue meticulously, gig to gig, Doesn't surprise me, Tom. I know right. Not surprising that the VO strategist meticulously tracks his voiceover revenue.  03:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There you go. Well, me too, but I have my accountant that has probably more of a hand in it than me, and then she'll report to me if I need to know things.  03:49 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. So one thing I do like to do what's called a client churn report. So basically I look at the end of every quarter, I look at how many gigs did I have, how much money did I make, how many of them were from new clients, how many of them were from return clients, and then I look at the same quarter from the previous year to see if the amount of money new clients and old clients went up, went down or stayed the same.  04:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now let me ask you what are you recording that data into? Do you have?  04:23 - Tom Dheere (Host) a CRM Okay, okay, I was going to say do you have a?  04:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) CRM. Do you have a CRM? Okay, okay, I was going to say do you have a CRM or do you have a spreadsheet?  04:27 - Tom Dheere (Host) That I do in a spreadsheet because I have a cash flow spreadsheet which tracks every penny that goes into my voiceover business and every penny, that goes out of my voiceover business. It's a free download at voestrategistcom. You can just type in free in the search bar and you can find it and download it. It and you can find it and download it. It also helps you run reports. It's got little auto sums and I've got little formulas in there so it can help track your stuff.  04:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's awesome, tom, and can that be integrated? Like would I be able to export reports from my QuickBooks and be able to import, do you think into that's a?  04:55 - Tom Dheere (Host) great question. It may require some reformatting.  04:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Finagling.  05:00 - Tom Dheere (Host) And a little finagling, but actually I'm so glad this came up. When it comes to analyzing your voiceover business, that cash flow spreadsheet does so many things. It tracks all the money that I make. I also list all of my revenue and expense goals for the month, the quarter and the year. But here's the other fun thing that it does I have little columns where I have little codes. So, for example, there are three what I call portals in the voiceover industry. I'm sure I've talked about this before Representation, online casting sites and self-marketing which includes inbound and outbound marketing.  05:34 So every time I book a voiceover gig, in that column I write down whether it was RE, which it was a gig I booked through my representation, if it's OC, through an online casting site, either free or pay-to-play, like Voice123. And then the last one is S-M, or self-marketing, which means did it happen as a result of a cold call or a cold email, or indirect? Is it a result of someone finding me on Google?  05:59 Or was I referred to that client by a fellow voice actor or a fellow client, because I have clients who refer me to clients all the time and so whenever I type that in, there's a little section to the side of the spreadsheet that has, by revenue and by percentage, how much money I'm making based on the portal that I'm doing. It also does it for genre. I have a column for genres e-learning, commercial, industrial.  06:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, that's awesome. I love this. And you say that this is a free download.  06:25 - Tom Dheere (Host) It's a free download, that's awesome, that's a great tracker. Yeah, because it lets me know just how I'm doing with the genre of voiceover, because you can break it down by genre and you can also break it down by portal. But I'm not getting all my e-learning through one portal and I'm not getting all my explainers through one portal.  06:44 Because sometimes I'll get an explainer through one of my reps. It's rare but it happens. But I'll get a lot of e-learning through online casting sites and self-marketing, so to be able to really look and see how my voiceover business is doing and be able to go to last year's spreadsheet and see how it's doing I love that, tom.  07:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that you have a free resource. I have to. I'm sorry I didn't have to exclaim that and interrupt you and say that, because I will tell you that I created a spreadsheet myself when I started to track auditions, to track jobs that I booked. It is a thing you do have to remember to put the information in, but it was very, very valuable to find out and I'll tell you, I love a person who can really work a spreadsheet, because you've got it all figured out already, yeah, and you've got the columns there. I mean, bosses, take advantage of this. We're going to put a link in the show notes. Okay, continue, tom. I'm sorry.  07:32 - Tom Dheere (Host) I got so excited.  07:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I had to interrupt you.  07:34 - Tom Dheere (Host) Well, yeah, I've been building this spreadsheet for 20 years.  07:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, I think 2004,.  07:38 - Tom Dheere (Host) 2005 is when I first built this spreadsheet first built this spreadsheet, so I'm looking at it right now.  07:43 So yeah, genre so like. For example, so far this year, 23.8% of my voiceover revenue has come from e-learning. But also I do it as the VO strategist. So it also tells me how many 15 minute consults I've booked, how many one-on-one coaching sessions I've done, how many conference appearances, how many mentorship sessions, how many people bought my videos at the VO strategist. So I use it for both as a voice actor and both as the VO Strategist, because this is tracking all the money.  08:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, good, I'm going to download it to track and ganguza business. However, I will say that there's reports that are generated off of QuickBooks or whatever your accounting software is, but I like that you have the added columns. Like I can't add a column in QuickBooks that says where did you book the job?  08:25 - Tom Dheere (Host) Well, I probably could, but I haven't done that that's why I stopped using all the accounting software in most of the CRMs, because it wasn't giving me the data that I need. Also this is a running total that I can see on my screen all at the same time. Here's another one no-transcript.  08:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Everybody talks about that.  08:56 - Tom Dheere (Host) I believe it's one of the most useless data points there is, and here's the reason, and you know this.  09:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm going to agree with you, but I want to hear your reason.  09:05 - Tom Dheere (Host) The reason why is because the casting process is so random and arbitrary.  09:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes.  09:11 - Tom Dheere (Host) Because the best voice actor does not always get the gig, get the gig.  09:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes.  09:15 - Tom Dheere (Host) And the best audition doesn't always get the gig. Like there's a great documentary called that Guy who was in that thing? And it's about 12 character actors in Hollywood and you know all their faces but you don't know any of their names and they talk about what it's like being a character actor on TV and film in Hollywood and one of them talks about the absurdity of the casting process and he says something like one week I'll get a gig because I remind the casting director of her brother-in-law.  09:41 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah.  09:42 - Tom Dheere (Host) And then two weeks later, I won't get the gig because I remind the casting director of her brother-in-law.  09:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely so.  09:48 - Tom Dheere (Host) we have no earthly idea what the thought process is behind a voice seeker. There's another story of how a woman cast a male voice actor and she was asked why did you cast that person? And she said he sounds like my father.  10:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Mm-hmm.  10:06 - Tom Dheere (Host) And then, upon further conversation, she said I trust my father.  10:10 So, that means A I trust my father. B I want a trusting sound, for this voiceover equals C. I want someone to do this voiceover who sounds like my father Absolutely. But what if her father sounds like Gilbert Gottfried or Bobcat Goldthwait and they probably have kids? I know Gilbert Gottfried had kids, I don't know about Bobcat but and I'm sure if their children hear their voice it's a trusting I'm going to be okay, I'm safe. But that doesn't work for the rest of the universe.  10:40 Absolutely so, that's why that's kind of an absurd thing to analyze.  10:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I just want to tailgate off of that really quickly. I don't want to get off the track of what's my ROI. However, that's why you don't self-sabotage yourself if you thought, well, I did a great audition and I didn't book the gig, or I'm not good enough, don't let that feed into. I mean, of course, you want to be a great performer and a great actor. That always gives you, I think, the most competitive advantage. However, the casting process is wild and crazy, and anybody that's taken an audition demolition class with Law and myself we've done, I believe, six of them so far. By the way, you can check them out on the VO Boss YouTube channel if you want to watch one.  11:20 Sometimes there is no rhyme or reason as to why you receive a job, and so I agree with you there that tracking that is not always going to give you the most useful information. However, I know people will be like, well, my booking ratio on Voice123 or my booking ratio on Voicescom. Again, in reality, all you can do, I think, is validate that you have ample opportunities, right, right, right. And within those opportunities, it would be nice if you, on average, booked a certain percentage, but again, I wouldn't let that dictate whether that is a good return on investment, would you agree?  11:53 - Tom Dheere (Host) It doesn't necessarily dictate your worth as a voice actor.  11:57 What it can dictate for the pay-to-play sites in particular, anne, is how effectively are you feeding the algorithms to give you the casting opportunities that you want, that you're right for, and are you effectively auditioning for the casting notices that those algorithms served up? So, with that in mind, I do track my booking ratio on Voice123. I have the $2,200 tier, so I have the second highest tier. So obviously I want to make sure there's a return on my investment. However, the number is skewed because I I'll give you a perfect example Two years ago on Voice123, I booked a gig.  12:34 I did an audition. It was for a grocery store chain doing an internal video about produce. I think it was about bananas. You know, like, if you work in their produce department, here's how to make sure the bananas, how not to bruise them, how to check them for quality, how to display them properly, how to rotate out bananas that are going to expire or whatever. And it was one gig $550 for like a three-minute in-house thing, directed session took all of 15 minutes. It's like okay, perfect. A month later they needed one on shrimp. A month later they needed one on avocados.  13:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I did not audition for those. You didn't have to audition, but you got the job. Yes, right, the recurring client.  13:11 - Tom Dheere (Host) But if I wasn't on Voice123, I would not have gotten that casting opportunity.  13:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) The majority of my work, too, is a lot of referral clients. Referrals and or clients that I got because I'm on pay-to-plays but not on a certain subscription level just because of my schedule, and so therefore I can't really count that. But I still get, believe it or not, if my profile is up there, every once in a while I will get a direct job, and then that client will come back.  13:35 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, right. So, with that in mind, on the spreadsheet, the cash flow spreadsheet, I do have a new column where I track audition bookings versus direct bookings.  13:45 Oh, okay, so audition bookings versus direct bookings. Oh okay. So how much did I get? Was this an audition and pray gig or was this a legacy client gig? So, just as an example as of this conversation, my direct booking percentage is 79% and my audition booking is 21%, which means roughly 80-20. Four out of every five bookings that I get, I didn't have to audition for them. Now, that is something that a lot of voice actors.  14:10 Yeah, that tells me something about my business model and it tells me about my effectiveness in marketing, about my effectiveness in auditioning and my effectiveness in client retention, because it's one thing to book a client once, it's another thing to book a client twice, and it's another thing to book a client a few times a year for years and I have a couple clients.  14:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, I have some clients I've worked with for decades, myself too, and I don't audition for them.  14:33 - Tom Dheere (Host) Some of them I never auditioned for in the first place, I just sent them the demo and then they're like, okay, great, and they here's your first gig work, which is right, that's the best kind of client, isn't it? That's a regular client, the one that you don't have to market to or audition for. However, audition and pray, I think, should be part of a balanced breakfast of all voice actors, whether it's through their agents, or through a casting site, or whether it's through their marketing strategy.  14:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Agreed Because auditioning and pray I mean. First of all, it gets you exposed to potential new clients in a multitude of ways. Because, first of all, if the agent hears you continually submitting good auditions, they might refer you to someone or they might shortlist you. Even if the client doesn't pick you, or if the client hears the audition and they may not cast you this time, they may save you for a future casting or come back to you for a different casting.  15:26 - Tom Dheere (Host) Here's another example. So for you VO bosses who have or are considering working with Anne, you decide you want to work with Anne. You want to get e-learning coaching. You may have been in the business for a little while. You may have gotten a smattering of e-learning gigs here and there, but now you want to really hunker down, get some quality training, get a quality demo, come up with a quality marketing strategy. So you work with Ann, you get your e-learning coaching, you produce a spectacular e-learning demo and then, of course, then we say Ann, what do I do now? And then she talks to you about marketing strategies. So you start to market that demo. The other thing you do is you put that demo on your website. So you come up with a marketing campaign. I'm going to put this demo on my website. I'm going to build a list of potential e-learning clients and if you have already done some e-learning work, it's supplemented by the work you've already gotten from existing e-learning clients and then you put it out there. Direct email.  16:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Direct email through a boss blast. Put it out there.  16:27 - Tom Dheere (Host) Direct email, direct email through a boss blast or direct email for cold calling, exactly, posting it on social media, talking to people on LinkedIn, so on and so forth. That's where this spreadsheet and your analytics can be an extremely powerful tool, because you can decide all right, this e-learning marketing campaign is going to take one month, so the first of the month the page the e-learning landing page goes live, and then you start through the VO Boss Blast. You start scheduling and sending emails to potential current and past e-learning clients. You post content on social media, you do things on LinkedIn. Maybe you record a video on TikTok or Instagram or YouTube talking about the demo or your experience with Ann or any part of your journey which is a part of helping people see your humanity.  17:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And, by the way, with any good coach right, I will if you provide a testimonial page. I also put demos on my YouTube channel, so there's the marketing that happens through that as well. So you're getting potential opportunities as well as my own referrals to you.  17:27 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, so you do all of that stuff and then at the end of the month, now you can figure out.  17:32 These are the analytics, so you can obviously go to your website, regardless of where the website was built. You should have some form of dashboard where you can look at how many times did people visit your e-learning landing page, how many times did they listen to your e-learning demo, how many times did they download? Because remember, that's the most important part of a campaign like this is to get downloads. You want people to download your e-learning demo and have it on file for when a project comes up that you would be right for. They have that demo on hand because they're not going to remember you and they're not going to remember your website. It may not be bookmarked. That's why most voice seekers and Anne may agree that most of them have a folder, a file of digital shoebox of some sort that has a pile of demos. Absolutely, and when a project comes along, because the odds of you emailing somebody your demo and the odds that they have a project that you're perfect for.  18:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) At that time Extremely slim. It's all about timing.  18:26 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, it's all about timing.  18:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I just did a teachable moment all about timing. Like you just don't know when people are going to need or require your service and you can't expect that just because you got the demo yesterday that there are all these people that need something today.  18:40 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. So you have to manage your expectations by the analytics. So should it be e-learning bookings in that one month? I don't think that would be fair to you because it's extremely unlikely. What you can look at is how many times did they go to your website, how many times did they listen to that demo? How many times did they download that demo? How many emails were opened and clicked on?  18:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You brought up a really good point. Is that? Okay? So a boss blast. You can go to the VO boss page to find out more about the Boss Blast. But the Boss Blast is simply allowing to cast the net out into a potential audience that could have a need, and you don't know exactly at what time that need is. So there's that direct marketing from the Boss Blast. But also I love the point that you brought up about the website.  19:23 Bosses, you have a website, it is a tool, it is your storefront. It is your responsibility to have enough knowledge about that tool so that you can go find out, like did somebody download my demo? How many times has the page been visited? Right? Because, just as there is with the Boss Blast, we have statistics. I can work with you, like when we send out a campaign, we have all the stats, we know who it was sent to, we know who opened it and we know who clicked. Now, once they get to your website right, they can click either the demo that's there or they can click on your website, and so once they do that, that's it. I just know that they've gone to your website.  20:00 Now, on your website, you need to be responsible for how many times has that been downloaded, how many times has that page been visited? And that can really help to see who's listening to your demo and what your booking ratio could be after that. And so those stats are important to know. So if you do not know how to access the back end of your website and we will have a podcast probably very shortly on just websites you must make it a point to educate yourself, and if you've had a website designer that did that for you, then you must either ask them how do you find out these stats right? Can they set up Google to actually allow you to see those stats, so when people visit your website, that you can find those stats and just know that, even if you may not be technically minded, you should really educate yourself on how to find that information out. That's important stuff to know. Sorry, I'm on my soapbox there, but gosh, it's so important.  20:52 - Tom Dheere (Host) No, that's amazing advice, Anne. Now here's the next part about this is here's some real life, practical real life experience that I have had this year is that one of the genres that I've been focusing on in 2024 is political. Over $10 billion is being spent on political marketing and advertising this year, so I updated my political demo. I've already had a list of political contacts because I've been marketing myself as a political voice actor since 2022.  21:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Are you direct marketing yourself, or are you on a roster as well?  21:24 - Tom Dheere (Host) Both, I'm on rosters, but I'm also direct marketing. I did a direct marketing, I did a direct marketing email blast, updated my political landing page and I sent out, I'd say over the past month and a half, roughly 150 emails to production companies that are dedicated to and specialize in creating political content radio, tv, digital streaming that require a voice actor. And do you want to guess how many replies I got to this?  21:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) email of 150?. Oh, I can imagine.  21:54 - Tom Dheere (Host) I can imagine the answer is zero, zero Now. At first I freaked out.  22:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But did you get hired?  22:01 - Tom Dheere (Host) No.  22:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Ah, okay, not yet.  22:03 - Tom Dheere (Host) Okay. So the question is what's going on? So, after some reflection and talking to other political voice actor friends, is they are so busy. These political production companies are so busy they do not have the time to open, much less read, any of my emails, much less click on the link download the demo or reply.  22:26 They don't have the time because everything has gone bananas this year, so because the debates have started the conventions are starting soon and then everybody's going to go crazy, from the presidential election all the way down to dog catcher and everything in between. However, I do have some existing clients who just send me work. They're like hey, here's another one, Can you do it today? Hey, I've got these five spots. I need them by first thing in the morning.  22:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Is that going to stop you from sending a direct email in the?  22:55 - Tom Dheere (Host) future? No, not at all.  22:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I wanted you to make that point.  22:57 - Tom Dheere (Host) Because this particular genre at this particular time of year. I have now, through experience, learned to manage my expectations about what's going to happen Because, like nowadays, if you're doing a direct marketing email, if you're getting one, to 2% of people replying to you, you're doing good, that's awesome.  23:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, that's what I tell my boss blast people yes, if you're getting one to 2% click or open you used to look for. If you get a 10% open rate and then 1% click rate.  23:26 - Tom Dheere (Host) Those days are over.  23:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah Well, 1% is good. So, yeah, it's absolutely good. But there's still again if you know your audience and you know what to write to them, it's still effective. I would still say there are still people that open their emails and there's always that chance.  23:39 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, so the point is just because they didn't reply to your email. I guarantee there's a folder in their Gmail or their inbox where they just took that email and just dragged it into that folder.  23:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly, which is why when I go through stats with people because we will go through who opened it and who clicked on it but then after that you don't know what they're going to do with it and, honestly, unless you're hacking into their systems, you really don't know if they've put it into a folder or not. I love the fact that you also are mentioning that you have to manage your expectations. Again, it's about timing and managing expectations as well, but that initial data can really help you to find out is it worth your investment?  24:18 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. So the aforementioned e-learning direct marketing campaign that you do from the Boss Blast yeah, looking at how many people opened it, how many people clicked on the demo, how many people downloaded the demo, which, if you're using a good CRM like there's a bunch of great CRMs out there which we could talk about in another conversation it can give you a good idea of what's going on.  24:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They don't have to download the demo either. They could just play it. Do you know what I mean? That's the other thing too. And they keep the email without downloading the demo.  24:44 - Tom Dheere (Host) So again, it's like everybody has different habits. Some people will save the email, not open it. Some people will save the email, open it. Some people save the email, open it. Click on the demo, listen to it, but not download it.  24:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Some people save the email and then forget about it right so that you need to consistently right every once in a while.  25:00 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, do a follow-up every few months. Do a follow-up in that top-of-mind email, right, Right. So the lesson here, bosses, is that analytics don't always tell the story. You can't live or die by your analytics, but at the end of a year I can look and go, okay. Here's a trend Right. Here's an example 2023, looking at the three portals. So last year, 12% of my voiceover revenue came from my representation, 49% came from online casting sites, 23% came through direct marketing strategies, 16% came through indirect marketing strategies.  25:38 Now, if you look at five years ago 2019, I had my representation percentage was one or 2%.  25:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, and I would say your pay to play your roster was high pay-to-play was non-existent because I wasn't a paid member of oh, that's right. At that time I took a long break because in the beginning I had a high percentage rate right, but my direct and indirect marketing strategy was like 81, but I also made 20% less in 2019 than I do in 2024.  26:10 - Tom Dheere (Host) So how did me going from focusing on direct and direct marketing to focusing on online casting sites, increase my representative percentage? What happened? What are the analytics? This is my theory. In 2019, I auditioned 450 times. The whole year 2023, I auditioned 1,854 times. I got better at auditioning. Voice123 made me a better auditioner because I got reps in. Also, it helped me keep a better idea on casting trends. What are people?  26:40 - Intro (Announcement) looking for.  26:41 - Tom Dheere (Host) How can I read a casting notice and match it up with who I am and what I can provide as a problem solver, as a voice actor? That fed into increasing the quality of my representation auditions. I got better auditioning on online casting sites and, by extension, I got better at auditioning for my reps. So that's why I went from like 1% or 2% in 2019 to, five years later, booking 12% of my revenue.  27:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that. I think it's kind of like goal setting right If you don't write it down. It's kind of like in your head you're like but I've auditioned, but I've sent my direct marketing email, or I've sent my emails and I've done my marketing, but in reality if you're not writing it down or recording it, it's really hard to track what you've done. I mean, it wasn't until I started tracking my auditions and where I was booking and it helped me to determine a genre. Oh, I should pursue more work in this area. There's so many things you can learn from it, from just recording it. So consider it like a goal right. Consider that document recording and gosh, it doesn't get any easier than downloading a free template from Tom.  27:42 - Intro (Announcement) Dheere's website.  27:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's for darn sure. I mean really. This has been such an enlightening conversation, tom. I mean the amount of information you can find out just by tracking your return on investment where are you auditioning, where are you spending your money, where are things happening can really inform you to make great decisions about how to evolve and how to move your business forward. So do it, guys. Download that document and understand that, yes, this is a marathon, not a sprint. We'll probably say that for every podcast that I work with with you, tom. I mean, I say that all the time, but you guys it is. Tom, thanks so much for your invaluable wisdom on this. I love that you're such a geek about all of this, and if anybody can produce a really cool spreadsheet, I'm sure it's Tom Dheere.  28:22 - Tom Dheere (Host) I am a happy mutant, so yeah.  28:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All right. Big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can network, connect and download documents like a boss. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Thanks, tom Bye.  28:40 - Intro (Announcement) Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

00:01 - Tolu Kolade (Ad) Hi Anne, my name is Tolu Kolade. I am a Nigerian and I love your podcast. I listen every week and I discovered it last year and I must say it has been an incredible eye-opener for me, helping guess what. You inspired me to also create my own podcast, which is also based on voiceovers. So I love what you do and keep doing what you do, thank you.  00:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, are you struggling with that ever elusive, real, conversational, authentic, like you're talking to your best friend, Reed Book? Coaching with me and I'll help you take your voice over to a real and believable place. Find out more at anneganguzacom.  00:54 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  01:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am here with the lovely Lau Lapids. Hey, Annie. Always happy to be back in the sack Lau. You are so lovely. You know what this week I've been thinking there are so many of my students and I'm quite sure that this happens to you frequently, being an agent and being a coach is that people are always trying to put on these particular voices right, that they feel like should be the voiceover voice right, and I know we've done episodes on this and we sound like maybe a broken record or maybe bosses out there.  01:54 You've heard this before. We really love your original voices. I think there's so many people that get into voiceover because they feel like they've got these great voices in their head, they can do great imitations and then when they get behind a mic, they perform and in reality, what most people want, I think, and what I demand from my students is give me your voice, because that pretty voice just is super boring. What are your?  02:21 - Lau Lapides (Guest) thoughts on that Lau. Yeah, we were just talking about this just a moment ago that casting directors and agents are really, really now looking for the real voice, the real sound, and we've been doing some animation in-house workshops and talking to animation casting directors who are saying 80% of the talent that they are hiring now for big feature film and TV series are their voices. It's their voices, real voices, their real voices. It reminds me of when we saw the earlier animations of like the 90s and the 2000s, when we saw the Ice Age and all of that. We'd see the A-list actor personalities Queen Latifah and Ray Romano and all of that, and they were them and they of that and they were them and they were recognizable and they were them and you thought, wow, why aren't they putting on a character? They're actors, they can put on a character. Well, why would they? They have a huge following. We want to hear their voice.  03:17 We want to know who they are. So I think some of those trends started with some of the A-listers, the Tom Hanks that came in and really provided their everyday sound for these heightened, larger-than-life characters in commercial as well.  03:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know, I always wonder, like, what is it about voiceover, when I get my students in?  03:39 - Intro (Announcement) What is it?  03:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) about when people first start, when they think that we don't want to hear their voice. They're always like and now I'm going to read a medical narration and I'm like no, like, no, I don't want to hear it like that. I want to hear your voice telling me or educating me about it in a confident way, but I don't want to hear this hi, this kind of air that they have and that they put on their voice. And I think a lot of times people like listen to what they hear out there. There's a lot of that out there and that's kind of unfortunate because that gives people preconceived notions of what is the right way to sound. There is no right way to sound. I think there's really just your way and your genuine way to sound, and that's what we find so intriguing, it's true.  04:25 - Lau Lapides (Guest) And many of us too, at least in our generation. We grew up on Disney and we grew up on programming where we did hear those sounds. That was in our heads. As little kids. We were imprinted with those sounds and we had the bedtime story when we heard Snow White and Cinderella. And when we grew up with the fairy tales, the folklore, we heard those exaggerated character and sometimes even caricature sounds in our cartoons as well. Many of our cartoons as well were over the top, larger than life, over the top unrecognizable to who that person was. So there was a style of those times that doesn't translate quite as well to these times. These times are much more real, authentic, down to earth, relatable. All the things that you see in the specs of your breakdown, of your auditions for like a commercial, you're also going to see the heightened characters as well. So be prepared for that Like. Start to be at home with what your authentic sound is.  05:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And then I'm going to add on top of that right, be comfortable with your voice, embrace your voice, and embrace your voice in all levels of emotion and point of view, because that's where I think a lot of times people will think but I sound so flat and I sound so boring and I'm like but you're not when you talk to me right in this session that we're having right here. When you talk to me, you're not boring, you're not flat at all. There's a dynamic to your voice, there's emotion, there's point of view, and I think that's the real key right there is bring you with that point of view and that emotion that really brings the story to life.  06:04 I talk to my students all the time and I say we all, we tell stories all the time and when we do that, we have evolving points of view that happen throughout the story, right From maybe the beginning of your sentence starts in one point of view and then it ends up in another because, oh my God, you're not going to believe what I did last night and let me tell you.  06:25 And so, in reality, like you can be excited, you're not going to believe what I did last night and let me tell you. And so, in reality, like you can be excited, you can be exaggerated and then mysterious, and then like, well, first of all, this unfortunate thing happened, but then, oh my gosh, right. And so your emotion is evolving as you tell the story and I feel like that can be in your voice, and it allows your voice to have many different textures and many different sounds that are very much authentic and not character-y, that's right and the truth is is like when we're in a conversation, whatever that conversation is, it would be the last thing that comes to our mind Oftentimes what we sound like or what we look like Because we're thinking of other things.  07:02 - Lau Lapides (Guest) We're connecting to the person. We're thinking of where we're going. Next we're talking of other things. We're connecting to the person. We're thinking of where we're going. Next, we're talking about our cat. We're doing whatever we're doing, but we stop the action, we stop the authentic doing. When we go into process and start looking at critiquing, criticizing, ripping apart whatever action verbs you want to use, when we look at ourselves and listen to ourselves, that's when we break the chain of the actual connection. So if a casting director says to you after an audition disconnected, you aren't connected that means you were in your head, you were thinking about lines, copy, or what you sound like or the mechanics right, like you're not at that last final destination yet You're not with me, yet You're not in the room with me, you're inside of yourself, and so that, to me, is a quick indication.  07:51 If you're saying what did that sound like? Did I sound real? I already know you didn't sound real. You didn't sound real because we wouldn't be thinking about sounding real. We would be thinking about persuading that person to get the prescription medication that they really need so that they don't die. Right, we're not thinking about did I sound authentic?  08:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) talking to them about the medication.  08:13 And I think a lot of it is. When we get those words in front of us. That's what throws everybody off right, because all our lives we've been trained to read out loud, right, to read out loud. I say that three times again read out loud, which is nothing like acting, right, reading out loud is nothing like acting. And so I have so many people are like but I don't understand, like, how do I connect to it? I would never say that.  08:35 And again, that is our job is to make those words sound believable and create the scenes in which those words would come out of our mouths in a believable and authentic way. And so you have to stop looking at the words as if they are words. There has to be so much more beyond those words on the page Right, and I think a lot of times I emphasize what's almost more important is it's easy to figure out who you are if you're just you, right, you're you. You're representing a company, you're trying to convince somebody that this is a great product or whatever it is you're trying to do, but really thinking about the person you're talking to. Like, have empathy. I say this so many times is that empathy is like number one rule, I think, for being really engaging and understanding who it is that you're talking and being able to connect with them, because having empathy and understanding what are their pain points, how is it that your product is going to help them? Is going to really, I think, help you to tell that story or be more authentic sounding.  09:32 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Yes, no question about it, and you and I have that sensitivity about the word read. Read is kind of like it's not in our realm to read. We don't read for a living. We read scripts. We have to read scripts. Not in our realm to read, we don't read for a living. We read scripts. We have to read scripts.  09:46 Yes, the brain process is the reading of it, first for comprehension's sake, yes, and then, once you're comprehending what is being done, you're processing it. You don't want to go into auditions and you don't want to go into recording sessions. Processing it, that's before. And then, as you process it, you get to your interpretation. Then now we're talking, now we're talking, then you want your interpretation to start, come out into your delivery. So, allowing that time, allowing the brainpower to happen, allowing that, to say my reading is at the beginning of the process. It is not when I'm auditioning or when I'm working on a gig. I'm not reading. In fact, I should even know the copy is the truth. Really, great actors who are doing voiceover copy half of them are not even reading it. They're just already interpreting it and memorizing it because they're actors for on camera, so they're taught to memorize.  10:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, and memorization is helpful if you've got a short script. However, a lot of the genres that I deal with it's not a short script and it's not practical necessarily to memorize. However, I will say that you're doing something similar. Not necessarily you're not memorizing, but you're reading far enough ahead, right, so that you understand where did the story go. Right, Because you got to know where the story ends up, so that you can like formulate how it begins. It's like you can't tell a good story unless you know that story, and so you can't evolve a point of view unless you know, like, where you're going with it. Really, you can discover it along the way if you have really well-written script. Really you can discover it along the way if you have really well-written script, right, or if you have easy-to-understand script.  11:20 And I'll tell you a lot of times, in commercial copy or corporate narration copy or e-learning copy, it's not the easiest script. A lot of times it's not a dialogue between two people, which I think is the easiest to understand. Right, and to be the most comfortable with sounding like you're talking to someone is if you're actually reading copy that's written that people are talking to someone. When you have copy that's written in any other kind of format like second or third person, then it becomes a whole different story. How are you making that sound like you're actually talking to someone? Because it's not written in a dialogue format. And so that's where I think the disconnect comes for a lot of people, when they don't know where they are in the scene and they don't know who they're really talking to. They haven't thought about it or researched it or analyzed it. They then just read the words and then it becomes very neutral.  12:08 - Lau Lapides (Guest) It becomes neutralized, and that's fascinating. In your daily conversations too, I think you'll notice that people stop speaking when they're processing information, and a lot of times I'll have people. My husband says this to me all the time. He said stop bulleting thoughts at me, I'm still processing what you said earlier. I can't. I can't interpret what you're doing right now. It's too fast for me, so would you say stop bullying.  12:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Did he say stop bullying?  12:31 - Lau Lapides (Guest) your points at me no bulleting, bulleting, Like shooting it at me, like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, that kind of thing. But in the daily conversation of many people you're actually not processing quite as fast, especially new information or technical information.  12:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And so it would be unfair.  12:49 - Lau Lapides (Guest) It would be unfair to say, well, give me emotion about it, give me a feeling about it, which I do to him all the time. Tell me how you feel. He said I don't know how I feel, I'm still processing it. So that's the lesson of the day. Is like. That makes sense. If you're not emoting authentic feeling, it's because you're still processing it and you've got to do that first. You've got to get through that first. That is not the end, though.  13:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's not the outcome. The top layer is your emotion, is your point of view. That is what brings your unique perspective and your unique read and what casting directors are looking for, usually all of the time right, they're looking for that All of the time.  13:25 Bring you to the copy. What does that really mean? Well, that means bring a point of view to that copy, and bring a point of view that makes sense. I mean, obviously, if you're championing a product, you want to make sure you're championing a product and you're not like angry or miserable about it unless the dialogue calls for it. So you need to get to that last layer, which is that evolving point of view, which makes the connection and really allows people to also comprehend what you're saying easier.  13:53 Because if you're neutral, if your point of view is just like hi, I'm going to read the words really nicely and very consistently and I'm not really going to put any sort of emotion on it, and I'm going to do this for the next two minutes, right, and I sound like a voiceover artist, right, but in reality you haven't told the story, you haven't allowed anyone to hear that and then process it. You haven't helped them in their comprehension, typically like as you and I are talking today. Right, I'm like well, I don't go. Well, we've got this right, I don't go well, we've got this Annie that sounds excellent to me.  14:31 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Yes, yes, it does.  14:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And it helps really people to hear and comprehend and understand what you're saying so much better than a simple like run-of-the-mill, medium, neutral kind of a read which most people seem to do on long-format narration copy. They tend to think it's like a documentary, but in reality, the focus of you, if you're actually doing a documentary and I always tell people like what's the difference, it's written like a documentary. Why should I not sound like a documentary? Well, typically with a documentary and those of you that love documentaries, such as myself, you're watching a video which completes a story. For you, there's a visual right and there's also music maybe, which also helps in the story right.  15:10 Your voice is simply supporting the documentary. So you need to just be able to tell the story, no matter what the media is underneath you, and the best kind of story to tell is one that's real and authentic. And that's why I think so many casting directors and correct me if you think I'm wrong, but I think so many people ask for that real read, because you can put any kind of music under a real read. You can put any kind of video under a real read and it will work. You can put any kind of video under a real read and it will work. You put something really dramatic and if somebody's like hey, this is the story and I'm going to tell it to you, like it really is Right, you can put dramatic music behind that, you could put dramatic visuals and it works. And you can also put something that's very soft and not dramatic and that storyline still works.  15:50 But if you're dramatic and you're fighting with other dramatic elements of a production that doesn't always work.  15:56 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Nope, doesn't always work. Doesn't always work. That's a good little formula to think about. And then I want to take a couple steps back and say, okay, here we go to the tough stuff. And that is before you even do anything meaning reading, prospect, audition or copy how do you feel about yourself? How do you feel? Ooh, we're getting deep. How?  16:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) do you feel about yourself?  16:16 - Lau Lapides (Guest) How do you feel we're getting deep? How do you feel about what you have to say, how you say it, how you feel about it, how you feel in your life, because that is also going to be transmitted as well through all of this. You lack confidence, you lack self-esteem, you lack your know-how about who you are as a person. The more you're going to be freaking out about the work that you're doing, you're just always going to feel like you're never bringing it. You're never bringing it to the table and you're going to start to become super biased and super, super, highly critical about yourself, where you can no longer trust your self-direction.  16:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, I hear that a lot from some students that come into the industry and they try to sound a particular way, right, and they think do I have what it takes? I get that question probably on a daily basis, right, do I have what it takes? Well, do you have what it takes to be brave enough to bring you yourself to the party?  17:11 - Intro (Announcement) right.  17:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And if you do, if you have the courage to do that right. There's a lot of people that don't have the courage and they hide behind that voice, they hide behind that persona. That is hi, I'm the voiceover voice and that is almost like a. It's almost like a false confidence, right?  17:26 lau or it's like oh, it's a mask I'm sounding it's a mask, it's a mask which is how interesting I always say a lot of character actors are very confident, right, and it's always really like when we listen to character acting, it's easy to become more emotional, right, because we are a character, it's a dialogue and we can formulate those emotions. They're kind of written into the copy for us. But when we're talking about some other type of copy, which may not be obvious, right, may not be, you know, a commercial, oh, I don't want to sound too selly, right, that's what I know about being selly, right, be a real person, don't sound announcer-y. Well then, that's my emotional like. I guess starting point, right, but in reality you've got to do more work to figure out that story, to figure out where your emotion lies. If all you know is that you can't be announcer-y and you can't sell and you need to sound, you're talking to your best friend. You need more work than that. You need to do more work than that to tell the story, right, lau.  18:23 - Lau Lapides (Guest) No doubt about it. Okay, so that's the honesty that you need, and sometimes you don't possess it. So that's where we always say circle yourself with great people to help you figure out what your most authentic you. And delivery is and connection is, because sometimes we don't see it, we don't know what it is, we don't know how to reach it We've never heard it and it takes years sometimes to get to, and that's OK.  18:48 Have patience, but you really do, as you said, have to have the courage, the bravery, to say I need to feel something about this, I need to care about something, I need to connect with who I'm talking to, because I was just working with a client yesterday, coaching, and they were literally what was it about? Oh, it was an adult acne product. It was like an infomercial type thing and this talent is so talented, it's like so gifted, so wonderful, was not connecting in any way. And I turned that into her sister having adult acne and, surely enough, the onion peeled. And then all of a sudden it came to her after almost an hour. She said I think I'm just going to talk to her because she really does have this problem actually and it really does bother her.  19:32 And I'm like you have to think about what's at stake for the people or person that you're talking or discussing with. Anytime you're going to sit down and have coffee or go to your diner and have breakfast. You're going to talk about a lot of stuff with your people and there's always something at stake. What's at stake? Are you talking?  19:50 - Intro (Announcement) about politics?  19:51 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Are you talking about religion? Are you talking about sexuality? Are you talking about finances? High stakes on all of those. High stakes on all of those. Your kids going to school high stakes on all of those. So why would we not think about that and connect with all the scripts that become in front of us Because there's stakes to those scripts, right, Absolutely.  20:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love the way that you phrase that that there's stakes to that. There is. There's a reason why the words are there in front of you and you have to discover there is. There's a reason why the words are there in front of you and you have to discover really what those stakes are Like. Why, why are you talking? Purpose is so important, really. I mean, purpose is so important. If you don't understand the purpose of why you're saying something, it's kind of like, well, let me just gloss over the words, then it drives us, it's our lives.  20:35 - Lau Lapides (Guest) It's like that's why so many actors will say who are career actors? They'll say what else would you have liked to do? They say I don't know. I do what I have to do, I do what I love to do and I do what I need to do. So there is the authenticity. It's not I'm doing this because I want to sound a certain way.  20:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm doing this because I want to look a certain way Right.  20:58 - Lau Lapides (Guest) We don't want a doctor that looks good and sounds good, we want a doctor that can help us with our health.  21:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, you know, I like that analogy because we don't want a doctor to look or sound good Like. When I go to a doctor and I connect with a doctor, I want him to help me, I need him to cure me, right, and that is the underlying reason as to why I'm listening to him in the first place, right, and if he's not addressing my needs, if he is all concerned about how he looks and or how he sounds when he's telling me about it, I'm not going back to that doctor. And so guess what? That's why we need that in advertising. We need you to be able to connect with that potential client when you're talking about that product, because there is, there are high stakes I love how you put that. There are stakes and what are they and understand your purpose for telling somebody about this product or talking about this product, or communicating with someone and empathizing, right, empathizing yes, I know that you're upset that you have. You know what I mean. Adulterated acne is not fun. I had it.  21:54 It was just like shouldn't I have been over this by now? You know, I mean it is just a thing.  21:59 - Lau Lapides (Guest) It's devastating actually, and acne of all ages is devastating to the people who are experiencing it. It's stigmatizing, it's all of those things. So it's like when you think for a moment of what that's like to go through, that will help you connect in a really personalized way. I think personalization is a part of it too. Personalization is a part of it too. So even if it's a business read of some kind or maybe it's a how-to, like how do I organize my closet, there's a personalization about that, like how do I go through the process, how do I feel about it, what does it do for me? And it's a truly deeply psychological process. We see that in all the shows, from hoarders to organizing to everything.  22:38 We have a lot of emotion, a lot of memories, a lot of psychology in our closet as an example, right. So there is almost nothing that I can think of that doesn't have high stakes to it for someone who is involved with it. It may not for me, but it will for someone else.  22:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I want to reiterate that that applies across the board, really for any script. It applies for medical narration, it applies for corporate narration. Again, people have such misguided thoughts about what is corporate narration or what is medical narration. Well, I'm just going to deliver the information articulately and clearly and teach somebody. In reality. No, there are stakes. Companies have products to help people to solve a problem and you've got to understand what that is.  23:23 Medical narration is all about either education or you're selling to solve a problem, that somebody needs to come to the hospital because you have the latest technology to help with their recent cancer diagnosis. You know that's high stakes. You're educating young doctors about the process of electrocardiograms because you may save a life right. There's high stakes to all of that and in getting to understand the purpose and what those stakes are is going to be what helps you connect and what helps you be the better reader, even if you've never heard it that way before. You're not coming to myself or Lau to be coached to give a pretty read. You can do that all on your own and, as a matter of fact, I don't want you if that's. All you want to do is a pretty read.  24:07 - Lau Lapides (Guest) No, I don't want it either. It's not authentic?  24:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) No, it's not authentic and that's not what I can help you with the most, because you don't need me. I'm not going to have you give. Give me your money for that. Give me your money if you want to really sound connected and really understand how to evaluate your scripts and analyze your scripts and understand those stakes and then bring that script meaningfully to your audience Right and, if a talent says well, I don't know much about this industry or I don't know if I feel anything about it.  24:35 - Lau Lapides (Guest) I'd say two things to that. I'd say three things to that. Number one you can train with us and become an actor, and an actor should be able to connect to every world in the world. And number two if you don't think you can connect, go to a big building downtown in the area you live in and just walk in the lobby. Don't look scary or creepy, just walk in the lobby and just like, have a cup of coffee in your hand and sit in the lobby and watch the people, listen to them. How do they feel?  25:13 How do they dress? Are they moving fast? Are they on their cell phones? Are things busy for them? Are they moving and shaking? Try to capture that as you're looking at your script, because that's the organization, that's the industry, that's the thing you're talking about and the people you're connecting either to or you are posing as right. Do that little bit of work. I know Johnny Depp did that for years and years as an actor.  25:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) He would physically like go live in the culture and you couldn't talk to him for like a month until he figured it out right and, in addition to that, go ahead and research the product, Research the company, Sign up for their mailing list. You're going to find out a lot. Go to their YouTube channel or just talk to someone.  25:56 - Lau Lapides (Guest) How about talk to someone. Annie, just talk to someone and say hey, I'm not a solicitor and I don't want to freak you out. Can I talk to you for five minutes? Because I'm an actor actually and I might be hired by this organization and I kind of just want to hear what your life is like when you work in the office in the day.  26:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) How do you feel about this company? How do you feel about?  26:12 - Lau Lapides (Guest) the product that you offer. That's going the extra mile. Why not?  26:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I guarantee you you might have somebody who would actually enjoy talking about it.  26:20 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Oh my God, They'd be excited. They'd say how do I know you?  26:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But yeah, especially if you say look, I'm not here to freak you out, I just I'm an actor and I might be hired. So I just I'm curious to get your opinion. What is life like at this company? Are you stressed? I mean, do you love the product?  26:43 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Do product. What can you share with me? That's a good idea. I like that. Isn't that a great idea? By the way, annie, we just did one on podcasts, and when you're talking about self-promotion, you're talking about self-producing, you're talking about becoming a business Like why not be the guy or gal on the street that does a one-minute interview with someone who's on the street coming out from the building, right? Some of our biggest podcasts and some of our biggest programs were built out of kids that said hey, I want to talk to entrepreneurs, let's go around and let's just drive around, let's just talk to them and put the best ones on.  27:09 Oh, we love that stuff, we love that stuff, right?  27:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yep, in business, people love to talk about them. They do, they do. For the most part, they love to talk about themselves, right, especially if you make them feel important and guess what? Guess what our entire job is as voice actors, right.  27:23 - Lau Lapides (Guest) They love it.  27:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) To make our potential clients or whoever it is we're talking to right about that product, to make them feel important. It's all about them. It's not about us or how pretty we sound when we talk about it. It's about them and how we're going to help them be better, look better, make more money, do all the things and make them the richest, most popular adults. I mean honestly, if you think about it, it's all about them. That's why we listen.  27:44 When we put our attention towards anything, it's kind of egocentrical. It's like what do I need? What am I going to get out of this? Am I going to learn something? Is this going to give me a sale on a product that I've been looking to buy, or is it going to give me information about the product that I've been meaning to find out what's in it for me? Yeah Right, what's in it for me? And so you need to, as the voice actor representing you need to tell them, like, here's what's in it for you. I'm here to help. I'm here to deliver this information to help you. I'm not here to sound good, necessarily Well, maybe I will sound great while I do it, but I'm more sincere about wanting to help you.  28:16 - Lau Lapides (Guest) So we just gave like a ton of tips about how you can actually sound authentic, and that is to live the authentic. And I like to say too go to lunch, go to dinner, go to coffee, go to tea. It's not about spending money, it's about going to places where you can sit with people and really talk to them. Talk with them and to them and about them, with them and to them and about them. And that's how you learn. How to talk authentically is to really be in conversation with people that you're fascinated by, you're interested in, or you want to help, or you want them to help you right.  28:50 We're not just the end-all, be-all helpers. We get a lot of help from them as well, so we get a lot of information from them that is very usable for us.  28:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love how this conversation went. I mean, it's just really brought up some really great new ideas for you know, you guys, and how you can really continue to develop as an actor and continue developing your authenticity and making those words really come alive.  29:14 - Lau Lapides (Guest) It's a conversation about conversation.  29:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There you go, all right. Well, I'm going to have a conversation about my sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can connect and communicate like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week, lau. Thank you so much, and we'll see you guys next week. Bye, see you next week.  29:36 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Val Kelly, the brains behind the Mid-Atlantic VoiceOver Conference, joins Anne Ganguzza in a special BOSS preview of MAVO. The BOSSES discuss Val's journey into voiceover, the challenges and lessons learned from organizing the conference, and the evolution of MAVO over the years. Her passion for the craft is evident as she discusses creating her own company to champion voice actors, offering a fascinating glimpse into the challenges and rewards of hosting a successful conference. The BOSSES shares insights on adapting to online events, the importance of providing educational resources for voice actors, and the exciting lineup of speakers and sessions planned for the upcoming conference. With a diverse lineup of guests, this year’s conference is a great event for anyone looking to elevate their skills and overcome the industry's evolving challenges. VO BOSSES can save $75 by using the code VOBOSS at checkout when purchasing your MAVO tickets 00:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, Anne Ganguzza here. Are you ready to take the next step in your voiceover career? At Anne Ganguzza Productions, I specialize in target marketing, coaching and demo production. That gets you booked. If you're thinking about elevating your performance or creating an awesome demo, check me out at anneganguzza.com.  00:24 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am so excited and happy to be here with a very special guest voice actor and owner, president and very boss CEO of the Mid-Atlantic VoiceOver Conference, Val Kelly. Yay, hey, hi, val, it's so wonderful to have you here today.  01:08 - Val Kelly (Guest) Oh, thanks so much for having me on your show. I really appreciate it.  01:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, and I'll tell you what I am so excited to talk to you today. Number one, first of all. So what does it take to be boss and CEO, not only just being a voice actor I know a lot of people that listen to the Boss podcast for us to be successful voice actors, but you're also an educator, which I love, and also to run a conference. Now my husband I'll just say my husband works, he's an event manager for multiple companies for many years and I know what it takes to run an event and it's no small task. So I'm excited to talk to you about yourself and what it took for you to become such a CEO of such a great event, and I'm excited. I'm going to let you talk, I swear I'm excited because it's my first year presenting with Amevo. So I'm very excited to do that this year and I'm already planning my wardrobe.  02:03 - Val Kelly (Guest) Oh my gosh, same same.  02:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All right, what am I going to wear? So I'm very excited how many outfit switches.  02:09 - Val Kelly (Guest) Am I going to have Right?  02:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) exactly what are my costume changes. So let's first talk about you and how you got started in voiceover, because I know that you still are teaching, correct, yeah?  02:23 - Val Kelly (Guest) So I'm doing a little bit of everything. Yeah, nothing wrong with that, I'll tell you are teaching, correct?  02:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, so I'm doing a little bit of everything. Yeah, Nothing wrong with that. I'll tell you Nothing wrong with that, and especially if you're teaching, because that's just near and dear to my heart.  02:33 - Val Kelly (Guest) Yeah, absolutely. So I got started in voiceover in. About 1999 was when I first kind of stuck my foot in it a little bit and I didn't really know what I was doing of course, because back then there were only a handful of people that were really booking work. So basically, I just took a class and you know they were like oh, you have a lot of talent. Of course, like that's. You know, the typical thing when you take a class. They're like, oh, you should definitely do this with your life, you know.  03:06 And you're like, oh great, that's exactly what I wanted to hear. Thanks for telling me what I wanted to hear. And then I took a class with these people for six weeks and then I recorded my first demo after six weeks, which was totally crazy. I had no idea what I was doing and it was a commercial demo, so I also really just had no concept of the technique or anything about what I was supposed to be doing.  03:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And probably even the industry, right? I mean being educators. Right, we know Like six weeks is really nothing. It may not have been every day for six weeks. Right that you were training. You were probably training once a week yeah.  03:40 - Val Kelly (Guest) No, it was like once a week yeah exactly Exactly.  03:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So yeah, being educators, we know it takes a while to acquire skills.  03:57 - Val Kelly (Guest) Yeah for sure. But I mean fast forward to basically 2011, when I just had my second daughter and I never stopped thinking about voiceover and I just said to my husband you know, I really want to get back into this, like I feel like I have a lot of talent to offer to this industry and I just really want to try and make something of it. You know, not give up teaching because I had been teaching French for such a long time and that's a big part of who I am as a person.  04:19 But I wanted to add this creative side that I have. I wanted to offer that as well. So I started training with a studio in New York and then just kept training with them for a couple of years with multiple coaches and things like that, and then it was probably 2010. 12 or 13 that I went to Voice Over Atlanta for the first time and I met so many people I think that's actually the first time that I met you and I was just so impressed by that whole event and everything like that, and so that really opened a lot of doors for me in the Voice Over world. I started booking more stuff after I went to that event and then a few more years passed and I just thought there's something here, like in this mid-Atlantic region, that's missing, you know, and I want to give back to the community in a way that's going to be helpful for other voice actors.  05:16 So I was flying to France actually on a trip, and I said to my best friend on the flight I was like what if I started my own company? And he's like, okay, he's like maybe you should get some best friend on the flight. I was like what if I started my own company? And he's like okay, he's like maybe you should get some more sleep on this flight. And I was like, no, but seriously. And he's like, oh, can we talk about this when we get to France? So the whole trip I was, you know, working and everything like that. It was for work, but I was also thinking, like, you know, I have a lot of ideas, like maybe I could really pull this together. So in 2014, I started Minute Landing VoiceOver and it was a real eye-opener, that first event with 28 people showed up for it.  05:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) you know Was your initial idea with your company? Was it to do specifically just the event, or was it just to start a company of your own to do voiceover? And it evolved.  06:06 - Val Kelly (Guest) I think my idea was to do this event but also to see where else I could take it you know what else could be offered through this company and then also to like expand it and kind of umbrella my own voiceover work underneath it, which ultimately it's separate from who I am as a voice actor. But that was something I kind of had to figure out a little bit later. But the first event was really great, even though it was tiny. It was absolutely tiny and I just I remember like calling you up and being like and what am I going to do? Like there's only 20 people signed up for my event, and you're like okay, val, okay, okay, let's send some email blasts.  06:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I mean honestly, I think sometimes smaller is better. I have been at VO Atlanta since pretty much gosh every year, except for the first year, and there's something to be said. That's a big event and it got even bigger. But there's really something to be said for a small, intimate event and people can be overwhelmed by going to an event that is so large, especially those people starting out in the industry. So I think that your conference really serves a niche where it can make people feel more comfortable. It can be a first conference or it could be a 10th conference for them. There are just lots of people who feel comfortable in a smaller conference, a smaller environment. They feel that they get much more out of it. And so, yeah, with that first year being smaller, what did you learn?  07:28 I guess my question would be is and having organized my own smaller events not huge events, but, and also having a husband who works in the event industry, I know how much work it takes, especially when you want it to be a great conference and you want people to get something out of it. It's a lot of work behind the scenes that a lot of people don't see. What they see is a ticket price. And they say, oh, all they do is multiply that ticket price by the amount of attendees. And they say, well, you're making a ton of money. I mean, I don't understand, why is it so expensive? And I'm thinking to myself, oh my gosh, there are so many, so many things.  08:00 So let's talk about the evolution of this conference and things that you learned along the way. And had you planned an event before? I mean, did you love planning an event? Was it your first time? I mean, I liked planning my wedding and I thought, oh, I could do event planning. And then I'm like, well, you know what, it does take an awful lot of time. So what was going through your head when you're like, oh, it was fun to manage event, this is my first event. Was it your fifth event?  08:26 - Val Kelly (Guest) Yeah, that was my first, I mean, as you said, planning a wedding, which I did plan, my own wedding and that was a big. I loved it, it was great and I was very, very good at planning my wedding which I felt like was a good preparation for the first event, you know, I said to my husband I was like it's like planning a wedding every single year, except no one ever gets married. You know. And he was like yeah, okay.  08:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Except you to the event. You get married to your event. Yeah, yeah.  08:56 - Val Kelly (Guest) So yeah, I mean, I learned so much after that first year. I just learned so much about the business side of everything that I didn't know. You know, that was one thing. I wish that I had had more business training before I decided to start, because I had to learn everything. I mean, I had my friend help me figure out how to build a website. And that took. I mean just the countless hours of work that go into just trying to do everything yourself because you're starting out and you can't afford to hire anyone.  09:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, right.  09:30 - Val Kelly (Guest) And so those are the biggest lessons I've learned, I would say from the beginning until now is just every year I learn something new about the business and how to manage the money side of things. And you know, like you said, people look at the price and they go oh, she's making a billion dollars.  09:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And it's like actually actually no.  09:51 - Val Kelly (Guest) Actually no because I have to pay for the venue, I have to pay for all the guest speakers, I have to pay for the marketing and all the stuff that goes into it.  09:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And.  09:59 - Val Kelly (Guest) I do a lot of it myself, just simply for the fact that I am a small company. It's a boutique you know sized company and we kind of evolved into that whole boutique world where I had this idea Maybe this happened about five years ago where I said someone said to me, why don't you call it a boutique event?  10:19 And I was like, oh, that's cute you know, and that's how the whole thing kind of started and I was like, oh, that's cute, you know, and that's how the whole thing kind of started. And then I took it and really had to explain to people what does that even mean, you know? And just being a French teacher, it's like, well, when you think of a boutique, what do you think of? You think of like a high-end, smaller place where you're going shopping and you're buying super high-quality items and everything is planned down to to like every tiny detail you know, and that's kind of what I wanted to transfer to my event without being snobby about it, obviously, like you know.  10:54 So that's kind of how I delivered that message to people is just like think of it as a high-end boutique. You know you're coming in.  11:01 I'm hiring only the top tier talents that are in the industry, people that are not appearing at every single event every year because I want to offer something different, and once we had that, we kind of ran with in the conference as far as the number of people and just the organizational part of it and just understanding how things work. And then after that, 2018 was really great too. We skipped to 2017. And then in 2020, covid hit. So then we had to go from being what was supposed to be in-person event, switching it to an online event at the last minute, and that was totally crazy.  11:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It was so nuts, I'm sure that was a whole new learning curve for you, because online events are so much different than in-person events and, plus, I don't know if you had already like secured a venue. At that point I mean because typically the planning for events like this it runs all year. That point I mean because typically the planning for events like this, it runs all year. Right, I mean, you're planning for this event, you're planning the next year before the one is even done, basically.  12:12 - Val Kelly (Guest) So when we had to take it online, luckily because it was COVID and out of your control type of scenario I was able to figure it out in enough time to say to the venue we're canceling. And then I took it to a virtual studio in Baltimore and I had someone do like the live streaming for me because. I had no idea what I was doing.  12:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I can vouch for that because myself doing mostly I mean after 2015, I stopped doing in-person events at my home and I started doing everything online and that live streaming. Back in the day, it hadn't really evolved or developed, and so there were lots of live streaming technologies that were just coming out, and so I literally yeah, I had to learn it myself, and then I also hired somebody to help me live stream it, and then I also wanted to do a hybrid event. So it was crazy having people at my house plus live streaming it online, and so that alone and especially if you want it to be a quality event right, that live stream you have to have good cameras, you have to have the ability for people to be able to switch between people that are presenting to the audience and just to make it engaging. Otherwise, one of the biggest complaints about COVID right and online teaching I'm sure you taught online as well was the fact that it was hard to engage, and I know that even today, people like they're fatigued by Zoom.  13:37 I still love it because I feel like Zoom filled a void for, let's say, just people that couldn't physically be together. I mean it was the next best thing. However, when you're trying to educate over an online platform, it really does become difficult or harder to engage people, and so running an online event you've got to be that much more paying attention to detail so that you can put on a great online event, and that is not a cheap thing to do either. To hire somebody for the cameras and that knows the technical backend to do the live streaming, to make the recordings right, you probably offer the recordings to be available for people who couldn't attend every session, and all that backend work on the website is crazy. It's crazy.  14:22 So I have a lot of respect for the fact that you were able to turn that around. And so, what year is it this year for Mavo? How many years has it been that you've been running?  14:31 - Val Kelly (Guest) So we've been in business since 2014. So, this is 10 years in business and it's actually our ninth conference this year, wow.  14:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So there's a lot to be said for that as well, for the longevity of it. I mean the fact that you know you didn't give up after the first year and you weren't frustrated, right, because it's tough, I mean, and you learn as you go. So you must have a passion for this conference and a passion for putting together something great, educationally resourceful for the community, which I, as a teacher with a teacher heart, I can totally appreciate and respect. That because it's one of the reasons why I started the VO Boss podcast. It's one of the reasons why I did the VO Peeps networking groups, because I wanted to be able to provide a resource. And I believe that that's where your heart is in terms of wanting to provide a resource for the community.  15:18 Because I know it's not about the money and I always try to strive to remind people that venue costs are not cheap. I mean my gosh especially when you're talking about wanting to host someplace. Decent rentals of ballrooms and just sites are so expensive it's along the lines of like tens of thousands of dollars, I would imagine to do that and especially when you're doing it over multiple days and then you're trying to provide reasonably priced rooms for people, and especially when you're keeping it on a smaller scale. It must be harder to find a venue that wants to work on a smaller scale with you. Is that correct? Or they get more expensive.  16:00 - Val Kelly (Guest) I think it's not so much the venue that is not willing to work with you on a smaller scale, it's just the difficult balance, I think is, if you're saying, okay, we're only going to have 120 to 150 people, well, the venue isn't going to lower its price because of how many people you have, because they its price because of how many people you have, because they don't actually care how many people you have.  16:24 What you end up paying for is the meals that you provide. So that's where the big, big expense comes in with any type of food that you offer, because it's based on how many people, and so it's really a difficult challenge of saying like, okay, if we're going to keep it this small, then we actually have to raise the price, so that I can cover all of my costs and at first people were like whoa, what the heck.  16:50 And I was like guys, like you have to understand, like if you want me to hire good people to come in, like great people to come in and speak at this event, they won't do it for free and nor would I want them to, you know. So it's like that's the biggest. Biggest expense beyond the venue is the guest speakers.  17:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know Sure sure, I know how hard it is to sell to this industry because I mean, I sell events myself, I sell coaching services and demos, and so you're selling to an industry where I think we all wish we had more money to spend.  17:23 I mean, I think that's just human nature, I wish we had more money to spend. But especially when you're talking about a creative industry where it is their own business, they're all their own CEOs, they're all entrepreneurs and everybody's kind of just as they go learning the ropes of the business, of it all, it astounds me how much people are willing to spend for, let's say, performance classes, but yet business classes, which I think is imperative for us as voice actors and businesses to be able to make a profit right in order to support, support your habit, support your business, to pay the mortgage, to feed the family, that kind of thing. And so business skills are essential. And I know that your conference in the beginning it was very much geared towards, I would say, more animation and character, but you've evolved it now, especially because I'm involved, you've evolved it to really include many more genres. So let's talk a little bit about what you're offering this year and maybe last year, what you've done to kind of broaden the offerings of the conference.  18:31 - Val Kelly (Guest) Yeah, I mean, I think what we had to do was really gauge over the years what the level of interest was with. You know, everybody loves a good animation guest speaker because they're so interesting and everybody wants to work for well, maybe not everybody wants to work for Disney Channel but you know you know, and so that's kind of always where my creative mind went and like where do my interests lie?  18:58 a little bit selfishly, but not really, because it's like I know a lot of people are also interested in that. So I would always try to go with a keynote that was somehow involved with animation, just so.  19:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's a big seller. I know that, even A big seller. Yeah, it's a big seller.  19:15 - Val Kelly (Guest) So then last year we had Serena Irwin who is a casting director and she casts freelance for a lot of different studios and has been on Spongebob and she's amazing like, and I really tried to find somebody that was kind of off the grid a little bit for last year because I wanted to find a less mainstream type of person kind of, I guess I would say. And so it was really successful to have somebody who is a casting director, because getting that viewpoint for people like in the animation world, what are you actually looking for? You?  19:52 know, so for me that was very interesting, for a lot of people was very interesting. And then there have been certain years when we've offered a lot of you know know audio book stuff and it's not to say that we're not ever going to offer audio book guest speakers again. But I felt like for this year I wanted to kind of go in a different direction completely and I feel like having Tim Friedlander as the keynote is such an important thing because Tim is doing such amazing work for NAVA and the National.  20:23 Association of Voice Actors and I just have so much respect for him as a person and as an actor that I just felt like it was like the natural. That's what my creative mind was telling me to go in that direction for this year.  20:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's very relevant to the times in our industry. He's done a lot of work with NAava, along with Karin and the board, and they've done a lot of really wonderful work and so they're going to bring a lot of value, I believe, to your conference, absolutely. So let's talk about who else you have this year that might be different besides me, I mean, but we'll talk about me in a minute. I mean, we can talk about you.  20:58 Well, I'm just super excited to kind of bring what I consider my specialties all of the genres, the long format narration, all the stuff that I think right now is really it's important to be an actor, no matter what genre we're talking, whether it's animation, whether it's promo. I mean it's important to be an actor, and even more so now, with all of the synthetic voice, the AI stuff that's out there. It's more important than ever that we hone our skills as actors, and so I want to bring that aspect to the conference to help attendees that are looking to really up their game in the narration, which is a large part of the non-broadcast market out there, and so I'm happy to be there doing. Do you call it a breakout session or a session?  21:45 - Val Kelly (Guest) A mastery session.  21:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) A mastery session.  21:47 - Val Kelly (Guest) Yeah, the three-hour sessions are mastery ones and I'm so excited about especially about your e-learning one, because that's a genre for me that I've always wanted to explore and I haven't enough, and you should.  22:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And you should because you're a teacher.  22:03 - Val Kelly (Guest) Yeah, it seems like a natural thing to kind of dive into that world a little bit. So I'm very excited, I'm very honored to have you this year and I think it's going to be really great. It's been a long time coming to actually be able to invite you and everything like that, and so I'm very very excited.  22:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, so I'm going to be doing two mastery sessions one on acting for narration, and that's all types of narration corporate, medical, all of the geeky narrations explainer and then also the other aspect of the narration genres, which would be e-learning or training. So I'm very excited to have one of each of those to address all those topics. And so, guys, in order to do this, you need to sign up for MAVO, and so hopefully you'll sign up and then you'll look for my mastery classes, but you've got a lot of amazing offerings this year for MAVO, so you want to talk about who else you have for mastery sessions.  23:02 - Val Kelly (Guest) I mean, we have so many great people on board. I'll just highlight a few of them because there's just so many. But Jessica Blue is coming and she's doing some sessions on dubbing live action dubbing and I'm so excited about that because I've never had the chance to meet her in person and we've never offered sessions on dubbing before at Mavo.  23:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's great.  23:22 - Val Kelly (Guest) So it's something brand new and very exciting for people. So she's amazing, so that will be really great. Ever Oliver is coming and offering a special teen program on Saturday only of the event, so that's for teens from ages 13 to 17.  23:37 Great and he's doing like animation, video game and commercial voice acting with them, so it'll be a great opportunity for kids to experience working with Everett, which is amazing and so much fun. Also, luanne Regis is coming and she's a casting director and she used to be a talent agent, and so she's going to be offering some great sessions at the conference as well. Just giving her from a casting director's perspective of what are we really looking for and I think that's what everybody really wants to know- is like what do I?  24:12 need to do to actually book this. And then, also really exciting, we have Daniel Ross, who is Donald Duck. He's an Emmy Award winning actor and it's so exciting to have him offering a mastery session on animation and making bold choices, which is so, so important in the character world of trying to book those roles when you have so much competition with everybody trying to also audition for them.  24:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So, yeah, I mean, there's so many people.  24:43 - Val Kelly (Guest) It's a long list.  24:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So how can bosses sign up for MAVO this year? Where do they go? What's the website? All that stuff.  24:52 - Val Kelly (Guest) Yeah, so wwwmidatlanticvocom, and they're going to click on MAVO events at the top tab and it will bring up all the events that we have going on. We have some like happy hours that go on virtually beforehand, so it 'll mostly be like every other week from now until the actual conference takes place and people can come to those happy hours online for free or they can like make a donation to Mabo if they want to. That's always an option like just to help support the company, but they can also certainly come for free and we're happy to have everybody there to just like network and chat. But yeah, everything is on the website the schedule and all about all the guest speakers and yeah, Fantastic, and you're going to be offering a special discount just for bosses.  25:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) For boss listeners out there, talk a little bit about that and how they can achieve that discount.  25:49 - Val Kelly (Guest) Yeah. So for the VO boss listeners, we're going to offer a $75 discount and you can just go to the website and click on Get Tickets and when you go to checkout you're going to just enter the code VOBOSS and it will take that $75 off for you on full weekend tickets.  26:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Awesome, that is so helpful, and guys don't forget to sign up for my mastery sessions and I'm also doing is it an hour long session too, which is for everybody at the conference. Oh yeah, there's a general session too, so that would be really great as well. Great Well, val, it has been such a pleasure chatting with you about Mayvo. I'm so excited and of course I'll just continue to plan my wardrobe.  26:33 - Val Kelly (Guest) Same same but.  26:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm so excited because you do have a wonderful lineup and I'm excited, of course, to see all of my friends and colleagues again. Wonderful lineup, and I'm excited, of course, to see all of my friends and colleagues again and I'm excited to work with the amazing talent that I know is going to be there in this boutique, wonderful, intimate setting for Mavo. So thanks again for joining me and I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom Val. Thanks again, bosses. You guys have an amazing week and I'll see you next week. All right, take care, bye-bye.  27:12 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vo boss comm and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPD TL.   

As voiceover entrepreneurs, we face unique challenges, especially when it comes to retirement savings. Join Anne Ganguzza and Danielle Famble, as they share invaluable insights into the power of high-yield business savings accounts. You'll learn how these accounts can act as a safety net during lean months, accrue interest, and instill the discipline required to save consistently. The BOSSES recount their personal experiences to illustrate how a robust savings account can bolster confidence and enable you to take calculated risks in your business ventures. Plus, discover how the evolution of online banks has transformed the ability to manage finances and receive money easily to benefit our businesses. 00:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey Boss, listeners Anne Ganguza here. Think about the legacy you want to leave with your voice. It's more than just getting gigs. It's about creating moments that resonate, that shine, that linger in memory. Let's craft those moments together with coaching that's as dedicated to your artistry as you are. Your voice, your legacy, our journey together. Visit anganguz for more information.  00:31 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, nne Ganguzaa.  00:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Boss Money Talk series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am tickled to bring back Danielle Famble to the show.  01:03 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Hey Anne, thanks for having me back. I've been really inspired by your red lipstick, so I'm wearing my own today. It's called Boss Lady.  01:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love it and you are definitely a boss lady. Speaking of being a boss and finances, I of course, check my bank statements all the time.  01:21 And can I just say that I first of all, love my business savings account to the point where I think it's like a must have for anybody in the business to just have a savings account, Because when times are lean and we know that this is a volatile industry sometimes we have good months, sometimes, you know, maybe not so good it's important to talk about having a business savings account. And, by the way, I have a high yield business savings account.  01:48 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Oh, my goodness. Oh, I love high yield savings accounts.  01:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That is a thing, and one thing I do want you bosses to know I am not a financial advisor nor is. Danielle, even though we love to talk about money, we are not financial advisors, so that is our disclaimer. We're just giving you our experiences with finances and growing our company, so let that be our disclaimer.  02:11 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yes, this is not financial advice. We're just talking about what we know and what we love and how it's helped us.  02:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There you go, so business savings account.  02:19 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) What are?  02:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) your thoughts on business savings accounts.  02:22 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Like you, I love my high-yield savings account. I absolutely love seeing how much interest that it brings into the account every single month. It is amazing when you think about it. But you also need to make sure that you are putting money into your savings account.  02:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) In order to gain that interest, in order to gain that interest.  02:42 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) So really it's not spending or utilizing every dollar that comes into your business, similar to personal finance making sure that you have enough money for the volatility of this industry so that you can pay yourself and pay your assistants or whomever that your business needs to pay in the lean times. It's really important.  03:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now let me ask you high-yield savings account Now. It used to be back in the day when you had a checking account, banks were offering all these incentives and you would get interest, you know, if you kept in a certain amount of money. Same thing with savings account. But it seems like all of a sudden there's high-yield savings account. Or is it just that I didn't pay attention before? Because all of a sudden I know that my money sat in the bank because I have my Bank of America for like ages, because that just was my bank, but yet it wasn't earning a lot of money, it wasn't earning a lot of interest. And then all of a sudden I was like, oh, look at this from American Express, there's a high yield savings account here and wow, look at that interest rate. I should be maybe throwing my money over there because it wasn't making a whole lot of money. Sitting there Is high-yield savings account, just a thing nowadays. Did it just happen where it just became a thing, or was I missing out all those years?  03:51 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I have to be honest with you. I'm not exactly sure how old or new high-yield savings accounts are. I can tell you that for me, when it came to personal finance, I got clued in into the power of high yield savings accounts and being able to make more money on my money in terms of interest, really, when I started to get serious, which was about six or seven years ago, so it could be relatively new. Typically, these banks are online banks and because they don't have the overhead that brick and mortar banks do, they're able to offer these incentives and offer higher interest. A way to look up a high yield account is really just to go online and Google and try to find one that has a business account, if you can. That's what I have been able to do, me too. Again, I don't know how old or new it is, but I do know that being able to have access to these products it's really important, and being able to have the discipline really to save is actually what fuels the ability to get the money and the interest.  04:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I will say that I was not confident in growing my business or taking risks in growing my business until I had a substantial amount of money in my savings account.  04:57 - Intro (Announcement) And what?  04:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) is substantial. I mean for me to feel comfortable that maybe I could pay my rent or pay my mortgage right if I didn't do any business. You know, like they always say, like you want to have as much money in your savings account like accrue three months worth of what it costs you to live in your savings account, and I would say that still holds true. I think that that made me feel comfortable.  05:17 Once I was in voiceover, knowing that if I had a lean month I was okay because I had that money in savings and so it is something that once I was able to accrue that and whatever it took right, I was putting $100 a month away or $50, whatever I could afford at the time.  05:33 And then, as I made more money, I just made sure that I always put into my savings account until I got to that point where I had a good three months. And then I was like it was so freeing and it was so confidence building that I had that good three months. And then I was like it was so freeing and it was so confidence building that I had that money that I could say, hmm, maybe I'll try a new genre, maybe I'll get a new demo or maybe I'll invest in this type of marketing or whatever it is. It allowed me that comfort to invest money to grow my business, and that, I think, is what was so instrumental in having a business savings account. Whether it's high yield or not, right, just having that amount of money aside was what gave me the confidence to grow my business. Other than that, I was living paycheck to paycheck. Who wants to live paycheck to paycheck?  06:19 I mean, that's just not the way to grow your business in voiceover and it's tough and I know a lot of people that might be where they're at and I encourage you to find a way to put a little bit away each month or each week or whatever you can do to grow that savings account.  06:37 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah, that's huge. It's a psychological boost too, because you know that if there are lean months which as we know there are there are lean times that you can take care of yourself and the ability to sort of dip your toe into maybe a different genre or do something that makes you feel a little bit more uncomfortable, that your security blanket is this account that can buoy you If it doesn't work out or if it takes a little bit longer. It makes you feel much more confident and secure because you are, because you are the one who is securing yourself. It's a really big deal. It's a big deal to be able to have that and the confidence that it gives you. It was a game changer. Yeah, it's a game changer. A game changer for me.  07:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It really really was, and it catapulted my business into different areas. I mean, everybody knows I've got multiple brands, and so I would not have been able to grow those brands had I not had that comfort or confidence level of having a little bit of cash so that, okay, I could spend more time building up this brand instead of auditioning, or I could invest in a demo, or I could invest in a virtual assistant, right. Again, we just had an episode talking about hiring assistants, right. And so that savings account gave me such a big boost in order to grow, and I continue to make sure that I have money in that. And what's nice is that, even though, let's say, some months I may not be able to put as much into it, right, the one that is a highield savings account is such a bonus, right now because it's accruing a higher interest rate than any of my other accounts, and so I am continuing to get more confidence in putting money in there.  08:16 So the more you make an interest, the more you want to put in it.  08:18 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah, the account is helping you out.  08:20 - Intro (Announcement) Exactly.  08:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So the high-yield savings account is a boon and again, we're not financial advisors, but look into it. I mean Google. I know that for me. It's really given me even more confidence than I had before. So always, always, really make it a point to have a business savings account and business savings account. I mean it's great to have a savings account your personal but, as we discussed before, right when you're running your business, you really want to separate your accounts, exactly.  08:46 Into business checking and business savings and most banks right. If you're going to open up a business account with them, they're going to have options for you to open a business savings account.  09:01 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah, and you really just kind of have between the personal savings and the business savings Because, as Danielle, I have my own personal savings for me and then the business that I'm running has its own savings account that I'm going to be able to utilize that money if I need it for any sort of business expenses, and keeping that separate. Going back to the basics of finance, keeping those two things separate really helps me out when it comes to tax time. It helps me out in the day-to-day running of my personal life and my business. So, yes, keeping them separate, and the same way that you keep your money separate from your business and your personal, keeping your savings account separate as well. And knowing what are you utilizing that savings for? Obviously, it's not meant to be used for everyday purposes, but what are the criteria for when you would need to dip into that savings account? Really just kind of having a plan for your money.  09:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, yeah, and it also helps in your financial well-being in terms of how banks perceive you. Your FICO score. All of that contributes. Right, these are your assets, right, this is money that you have. And it's one of those things when I spoke to you about making that $500 stock investment in the company that I worked for, right, and I just forgot about it because it was, I considered it my spare change and I'm just going to put it in and, well, I'm going to look at it, but I'm not going to obsess over it and just kind of forget about it. And the nice thing is, when you have it in a bank, that when they want your business, they're going to offer you perks of that, and so high yield savings is one of them, and so that money just grows, right, I can just put it in there and it just grows. And when I look at the monthly statement and I say, whoa, look at how much interest I got this month.  10:39 It makes me want to put more into it. It makes me want to find ways to put more into it. And when you're talking about manifesting abundance and you're talking about positive things that spur you on and having faith and thinking in terms of having abundance, that is really helps. I'll tell you, when you're looking at that account and it keeps growing, that can really be a big mental help to you feeling successful in terms of your business.  11:06 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah, it's the evidence right. It's the evidence that what you are doing and what you've been doing is working and that it's growing. So, having that sort of tangible you know the statement to see I put this much money in and this is how much my money made, without really me doing anything other than putting that money into this account, it's evidence that what you're doing is working and to keep going.  11:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And it's not like you're taking a risk like the stock market. You're investing yourself in your business, exactly, so it's a fairly stable. Unless the bank goes under right, it's a fairly stable yeah well, that's a whole nother podcast but it's a fairly stable way to grow your money.  11:41 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Right and also to grow your confidence. I really love that and I think it's really important the distinction of, yes, you're growing your business, but also you're growing your confidence and you're growing your ability in your business to grow and invest and take risks, which helps you potentially grow your business. You're investing in your confidence, not just monetarily, but in that emotional feeling of security that only you can give yourself. It's a big deal.  12:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and it doesn't take much.  12:10 I mean, bosses, you're already risk takers, right, because you've decided to get into voiceover, you've decided to become an entrepreneur, you've decided to start a business.  12:18 This is just another aspect of it, and it's an aspect of it that can give you that cushion to weather all types of storms that can happen within your business. There's just so many people I know that are like they gave it all up to invest in voiceover but yet they don't necessarily have savings. And I know as a coach, when I'm talking to students that want to get into this industry, and there's a lot of people during the pandemic right that lost their jobs, that wanted quick money, and I was careful to say that voiceover does require an investment. It's not that you're going to be able to make quick money right away, and we all know that those of us that have been in the industry, this is the same kind of thing, really that you want to make sure that you've taken the risks and now you've got another savings account that can help you survive and weather those storms as you move forward in your business.  13:06 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) It's infrastructure. It's setting up the infrastructure for the what-ifs or what could happen in your business and it's creating sort of more cushion for yourself, just in case things happen. Also, saving maybe totally different, but saving for things that you need to do in your business. Maybe it's setting aside a certain amount of money for taxes, maybe it's setting aside a certain amount of money because you want to attend conferences and you need to travel and take the time away. That can be part of the business savings. But I think making sure that you have the mindset that the money that is coming into your business, not all of it, needs to be spent or used now you do need to put a certain amount of money aside for certain things taxes, education, investing in your business, investing in yourself in the lean times and in the slower times. It's really looking at what is happening in your business and creating the infrastructure for what could happen.  14:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And you know, what else is interesting too is that with some banks, they'll give you more benefits, right, the more you have. So if you open up this type of business savings account, you need to maintain a certain amount of money in there, and when you do that, you'll get free checking, you'll get a lower interest, credit card from them, all types of things, different perks, you'll get 3% back or you'll get money back, and so it behooves you to do that, because they're also offering you incentives to kind of keep money in that savings account, right, and you're not going to just have it to like blow in the first month on a new microphone or a new demo, but to maintain funds in there, right, so that you can keep up the benefits.  14:40 - Intro (Announcement) And so.  14:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I like that. There's like a double incentive. Really it's nice to have that cushion and then you'd want to keep it in there, and it's not like we haven't really discussed retirement funds or mutual funds or anything like that, and again, we're not financial advisors. However, they work differently, where, if you keep the money in there for a certain amount of time, or you're required to keep money in there for a certain amount of time or until you reach a certain age as retirement.  15:04 A business savings account is simply just a business savings account where you're not penalized if you have to take money out. So I think it's got like everything in it. You know what I mean? It's got that added cushion security. You get benefits if you keep more in it, but yet you're not penalized if you have to take out of it. Necessarily.  15:21 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah, it's access, potentially very quick access to the money that you have that you've put aside for whatever it is that you are saving for. I think it's important to have access to the sort of quick access to the account, so like a business savings account and then other more long-term, like you were discussing you know we're not financial advisors but having access to your money for retirement or things like that. It's really important to have the infrastructure for short-term, medium-term and long-term savings.  15:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, especially because, as entrepreneurs, you're not necessarily contributing to a pension fund from your own business, right? There's a lot of people that we haven't even really talked. We'll probably have an entire podcast dedicated to retirement, but you probably are not thinking about contributing to a retirement fund, so this can be one step towards money that can go into that Although I do think that's another separate podcast episode that we need to talk about because I'm very lucky because I have a pension coming from my experience in education and my husband has a pension fund coming from a job that he worked for previously. So when we retire, we're going to have that money, and so I'm not necessarily contributing to a quote unquote retirement fund.  16:38 But I do have mutual funds through my financial advisor that I'm investing money in, and I have an independent retirement fund that I basically take $100 a month for that particular account, and I would recommend that as well for anybody that is not necessarily have a retirement fund, because all of a sudden, you're going to be at retirement age and you're going to be like oh, wait, a minute, I don't have. Where's that money? Do I have money in savings? Do I have that money in a fund that can help support me when I'm no longer working and most people say, well, I could work in voiceover forever. But I mean, look, I love voiceover but I'm not going to work in it forever. I mean, at some point my voice will crack and sound old and I'm going to be tired. I'll be happily traveling the world living off my savings slash retirement because I invested.  17:27 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Now so it's something bossy. You're painting a wonderful picture of your life, and I'm just like me too. That's it. That's what I want to do.  17:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm going to be traveling the world and it's because I'm thinking now about those things, right, and of course, in reality we should have been thinking about it and people tell you all the time, right, Thinking about retirement when you're like 18.  17:47 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) But think about savings.  17:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Best time to save and invest is yesterday and next best time is now and so, in terms of some people were like, well, I just don't have it right To invest in savings. And again, if you are in voiceover and you're living paycheck to paycheck, really consider thinking about that. You know, I mean, and I did it when I first started full-time in voiceover, I had a part-time job.  18:09 I worked my butt off contributing and saving and having a fund so that I could ultimately, when it got to the point where I was making more money doing voiceover, I could ultimately stop that part-time job, but I do encourage all of you if you are living paycheck to paycheck on voiceover, maybe it's time to consider a job that will bring in some steady income that you can put into a savings account.  18:31 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Exactly have something that will help invest, input capital into your life and to your business. This is a long process. Entrepreneurship is a marathon and you have to learn how to pivot as time goes on, and maybe that means that you need to bring in something that will help bring in capital to your life and your business. Maybe that's a part-time job, maybe it's freelancing, maybe it's figuring out how you can pivot to make money elsewhere. Whatever it is being able to have again, the infrastructure of savings around you is incredibly important because it's a long game and there's nothing wrong nothing at all wrong with having outside resources. That's bringing you in money outside of voiceover.  19:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Gosh, no, I mean I was just talking to somebody the other day. I always talk about my Chanel lipstick or whatever it is, but I love fashion, right, and so if I love something like that and I'm spending a lot of money on clothes because I recently did lose a little bit of weight, so congratulations.  19:32 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Oh, thank you.  19:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But I mean, what's wrong with finding something that brings me joy? So maybe I'll be an affiliate or I will do some form of my business that will allow companies to maybe send me free clothes or make some money off of the clothes that I buy so I can buy more clothes. So it's that kind of a mentality. And I'm still doing voiceover. I'm still a coach, I'm still, but I happen to love fashion. So I just added that kind of to my alternate. This is what Anne's going to do on her free time. Maybe I can make a couple extra dollars that I can put into that high yield savings account and have fun along the way, right? Yeah, so it really is. I think, up to us as entrepreneurs, right? There's nothing saying you have to do 24-7 of voiceover in order to have a successful business.  20:20 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Absolutely. What can you do and how can you do it that will bring money into your ecosystem, your business, your life, so that you can use that money to fund really everything else about your life. And that means also saving, because saving is really just putting money aside for future you so that future you can benefit. That's right. It's also a discipline too. For me it's been a discipline of looking at the amount of money that I have access to and dedicating some of those funds to my longer term savings maybe retirement or maybe, as you were talking about, mutual funds and investments but also to my business high yield savings account, to my business account, because I know that one day I will need access to that money.  21:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, and a lot of times the banks will make it very easy. You can have it $100 or $50 or $25 or $500, whatever it is on a monthly basis, literally just streamed into those accounts, into your savings account, into your retirement fund, whatever it is, it can be done automatically, so you don't even see it. It's like when you worked for my company and they would ultimately take out so much money for retirement or whatever it is, automatically and then match that back in the day when companies did that. Very few companies do that anymore, but it's similar to that. So when it's taken out automatically, you don't necessarily notice it. So try to implement those things right so that you can contribute regularly and consistently to a savings account, so that you can have that money for when you want to go travel or retire from whatever it is you're doing.  21:51 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I will tell you that automation is the way that I was able to consistently put the money in savings in the first place.  21:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's hard when you manually have to do it, you know.  21:59 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Because it takes away the human element. The human has emotions about money and may not want to put that money in these accounts. Oh, so true. The automation doesn't have that, so it's going to continue to do what you've set it up to do, and actually that's how you get the result that you're wanting when you take away the human element.  22:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love how you said that there's the emotional element to money, and again, we could write a book on that right there's an emotional element to money.  22:24 In so many ways. We have such a connection to it, whether we want to or not, right? I mean, it's how there's a roof over my head, it's how I afford this microphone, it's how I can afford to put clothes on my body and food in my body, and so there is a lot of emotion tied around money. So if you can make that emotion as painless and as easy, and even as possible.  22:48 Yeah, make it invisible, I mean. And they also say that one of the most frequent causes for divorce is financial right Issues and troubles. So if you can make it easy and seamless, why not? And a business savings account for me, having it taken out automatically, having my money grow on a monthly basis and being encouraged and inspired to contribute on a regular basis to it, it's a no brainer. It should be a no brainer, I think, for everybody that wants to run a successful business.  23:16 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah, and it's a tool to be able to utilize and run your business successfully. It's just another thing, it's another tool in the tool belt. It's a way to help you feel more confident when times are a little bit tougher, and it's a way to know that you can fund the business that you are running. It's invaluable. I love it.  23:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely. And again, we both decided early on bosses that we could just spend 27 minutes saying I love my high yield savings account.  23:43 - Intro (Announcement) I love my high yield savings account.  23:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love my high yield savings account Again, not that we're trying to push anything on you, but we are not financial advisors. How many times do I have to say that to this time? But no, really, I mean it's the most amazing thing, because I'd been sitting there for years, like literally for years, watching getting pennies, like every month, in my bank account. I'm like what happened? It used to be the banks were like here, we're going to give you so much percent each month for keeping this money in our bank, and it just became a little bit different until, like you said, the online banks who don't have the overhead costs of brick and mortar, can offer those things right and again.  24:16 And my bank has really upped its game too, by the way, because when I told them about my high yield savings account, I said, well, why are you not matching that? And so they actually came up with because I wanted to have a business savings account as well as a high yield business savings account. Right, with them, they upped their game. So it's something you can actually talk to your bank about and say look, why can't you offer me this amount of interest? A lot of times? Banks, if they want your business, they're going to work with you.  24:48 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) So yeah, and also just educating yourself of what is out there. To be completely honest with you, for the longest time and for me, coming from a musical theater background I never, ever, ever considered what I would need to do to have savings for my business. The education for me happened from my personal life, for personal finance and then bringing that into how I'm running my business. But, to be honest with you, for me I wasn't even really thinking about savings because I was just looking at what was coming in. I need this money now, okay.  25:16 It kind of just kept cycling through the moment, but really stopping and taking a look and saying, okay, I can be the person to fund my level of confidence and security when I'm in an industry that is volatile sometimes. That is a complete game changer and it requires thinking about things differently, but it also requires educating yourself of what options are out there for you to be able to do that.  25:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And bosses repeat after us like I love money, right, danielle? I think the two of us could just say I love money, I love money.  25:48 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I love money.  25:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That is our emotional attachment, right? We just said that there's a lot of emotion attached to it. I love money, and so if I didn't love money, if I hated money, it would not want to come into my life, right? I mean, I can't be hating things that I want to manifest, hating things that I want to manifest, and so I love my relationship with money. And at times, yes, it's tough that it runs the world, it's tough that I have to spend so much on a monthly basis to put the roof over my head or that oh my gosh, you know how much is food these days. It can be frustrating at times, but in reality, my relationship with money is to have a love affair with it so that I can manifest it in abundance.  26:23 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yes, and a love affair that is not fear. Yeah, because when you're running away from something, even if it's trying to catch you, then it really seems like it's just chasing after you. So a love affair and being open to it and wanting it, and wanting to learn about it, and wanting to invest the time into it. I love money too, anne. I think we I love money too.  26:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's it. That's it. We can go home High-yield savings account and we love money. There you go, bosses. What a great conversation. Again, we could say this 500 more times, but I think you guys get the point. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect, network, make money like bosses and find out more at IPDTLcom. There you go, you guys have an amazing week and we will see you next week. Bye.  27:10 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at VOBosscom and receive exclusive content industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a bosscom and receive exclusive content industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPD TL.   

00:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, ever feel overwhelmed by marketing? I get it. Let's tackle it together with a VO Boss Blast. We're all about making marketing as enjoyable as voice acting itself. Dive in with me and let's blast off together and let's turn those marketing challenges into victories. Sign up today at VOBoss.com.  00:27 - Tolu Kolade (Ad) Hi Anne. My name is Tolu Kolade. I am a Nigerian and I love your podcast. I listen every week. I discovered it last year and I must say it has been an incredible eye-opener for me, helping me to get better in my craft, even as an Nigerian and an African. There are many tips that are so useful for me and, guess what? You inspired me to also create my own podcast, which is also based on voiceovers. So I love what you do and keep doing what you do, thank you.  01:02 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a vo boss.  01:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) ! hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the boss superpower series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza and I'm here with the very lovely Lau Lapides today. Hey, annie, so happy to be here. As always, law, you look lovely.  01:37 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Thank you gorgeous today. You do too. We're getting ready for summer that's right.  01:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's right. You know it's funny because I just celebrated my eighth year for VO Boss. Woohoo, woohoo, yeah, eighth year and things have changed. I'll tell you what in podcasting and, of course, in our own industry, but I used to only do this audio. But the way technology has evolved I mean, everything is video content and on camera and it just has changed. So we have to be prepared not just for doing the voice, but I had to do my hair this morning and do the color coordination and the outfit, so wait are you trying to tell me that you may have to be on camera?  02:16 yes, we may have to be on camera as voice actors, and that's like remember everybody in the beginning I got into voiceover so that I didn't have to show my face. But guess what, guys? There's an entire world of opportunities that law firsthand can talk about in terms of casting right and on-camera work.  02:36 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yes, and you can talk about it too, because you're always webcasting. This is true Podcasting and on-camera social media.  02:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Content Casting with.  02:44 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Zoom, I mean it's endless. On-camera social media on-casting with Zoom, I mean it's endless. We are on, on, on camera and we were just talking about this before and I think it's really important for voiceover talent at all levels to be thinking about potentially nabbing some on-camera work. Yeah, Really, the opportunities are there, they're vast. Yes, it gets slow and there's ebbs and flows, just like there are in voiceover.  03:04 But if you are going to reach out, say, for instance, to an agency, and you say, well, I want to get some more reps or I need a rep.  03:10 I don't even have a rep, how do I do it? One of your checkboxes, if you can, is the fact that you are able, capable and willing and wanting to do on-camera work, because a lot of the agencies, especially the boutique agencies, will sign you what they call across the board, meaning they're interested in you as a voiceover talent, but they also want to know you can do on-camera commercial work or print work or anything that has to do with, maybe, a non-broadcast industrial. So I would say I mean one of the things I always say to our coaching clients is think about it. If you absolutely do not want to be doing it, be honest and don't do it, because there's a huge line behind you of actors that want to do it. Yeah, absolutely. And we convert many voiceover talent to also do on camera and have that combo on their resume and they love it. And oftentimes they say, oh, I had no idea how fun this was, I thought I had a face for radio. And I say you have to retire that old, stupid phrase.  04:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, it is old and stupid.  04:15 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) You're absolutely right, and let me tell you the stranger, you look the odder, you look the more real, you look the more work you get. You're going to get more work than a supermodel.  04:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, the more desirable you are. Absolutely Flaws and everything, guys. I mean I actually love that the camera is embracing these things now, because real people, right, real people.  04:38 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Real people. There's an agency in New York, Annie, that's pretty hip. It's called Funny Faces and they represent only real people. Now, those are actors still. They're trained actors. But they're actors that specifically do not look like model types, which is most actors and they're getting most of the work because they want just like in voiceover today they want real people. They want real people who look like real people and who sound like real people.  05:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, absolutely, absolutely. I love that. So I would have my students say to me oh gosh, I thought I was just training for voiceover. I just spent all this money training for voiceover. What do I have to do for on-camera?  05:21 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) law. One thing I would say is and I hear this a lot, I've heard this for years and years is oh, that's an interesting idea, I wouldn't mind doing that. I mean, if they asked me, I'd say I wouldn't mind it. I'd say listen, don't ever come into it that way, Because I wouldn't mind. It is like saying yeah is like saying you know, yeah, would you clean up the table? I don't mind cleaning up the table. No, you have to have some passion for it. You have to have some real wanting to do it Because, just like in voiceover, you're up against trained actors. You're up against people who really are dying for jobs and want the job.  05:55 So you really want to have. Find that in you. Test it, train Coach number one, just like in everything we say. Coach for acting for on camera. Take some improv classes. Make sure you're in a few acting classes, that you're having fun. You must have fun. If it's against your grain, if it's like taking medicine when you're sick, don't do it. You really have to do it. If you're saying, oh, this is kind of enjoyable, it's kind of sassy, I'm having a good time with that, or all right, you have to come into it with the right spirit and the right positive mindset, otherwise it's like don't do us any favors because you're not doing us any favors. We can find and work with trained actors very, very easily. So come in with a good attitude, coach, and take your classes. Start thinking right away about getting involved with films, student films, independent films. It's not about money at that point.  06:50 It's about building an actor real and building your resume and getting some experience in front of the camera.  06:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Certainly, theater if you're interested in theater, great, but that's a different path and how simple is it now, with social media and our iPhones, that we can get comfortable in front of the camera. And it is a thing, guys, because I know when I first started getting out there, okay, you've got to look at the camera, like right now I'm looking at the camera and I want to look at law on the screen in front of me, but no, I have to look at my camera because that's where my eyes go and so, like little things like that, and then just being able to be yourself, being able to go off script, being able to be on script and sound natural, and to just have that again, that authentic, you come out, gosh. We have all the time in the world and all the resources at our fingertips to start to see if maybe that's something we're comfortable with.  07:41 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) So true and one of the things that people don't realize is 90% of your casting for on camera is the way you look. Maybe 95% is the way you look. It doesn't mean you don't have to have talent you do. It just means they're going to cast you first on your physical type and then they're going to see what you're bringing to the table. So working on memorization is a big deal. That's really part of your job. To memorize scripts, learning how to use a teleprompter on their laptop, which is a wonderful skill to learn. If anything, it focuses your brain and keeps you very calm. There's just some interesting skills that are going to help you in your voiceover, your character building, your analysis of a script of a character.  08:26 You're thinking fast on your feet in improv. How do I create off other people and really acutely listen to what they're saying to me and really be able to create? I'll tell you, I know firsthand that when you're in a film, set or TV— Listen without interrupting.  08:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Written on my shirt Listen, Listen to my breast without interrupting. I know, and I just interrupted you while I said that. So See how I took my own advice yeah, there we go, that's great, that's great.  08:57 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) But I mean, I'll tell you, especially with the younger generation coming up, annie, the directors are different nowadays, like they are really wanting actors to come in and be prepared and give them ideas, give them characters, give them stuff that they can have fun with, steal and run away with and enjoy with you. Hasn't that always been?  09:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) the way I feel like that's always been.  09:19 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) I feel like in voiceover.  09:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) People are always like well, why do they write the script like that when they want us to be real? Well, because I think they want to hear your interpretation of it, and so I think half the time those scripts are written with an intensive purpose yes, to make you get creative and really figure out how you're going to tell that story, even though you have no idea what those words mean. That's really what it is, and a lot of those directors.  09:42 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) No commentary on them, in particular, on that generation in particular. They're not trained to train you. They're trained to cast you and to have you get as close to the role as possible. Where they're tweaking you. They're trained to cast you and to have you get as close to the role as possible. Where they're tweaking you, they're doing adjustments with you. They don't want to give you the character, they don't want to build you from the ground up. They don't want to give you an acting class. They want you to make yeah, it is like voiceover. They want you to make life easy for them, fast. For them, time is money. They're renting equipment from houses. They don't want to have that extra day of shooting and oftentimes you won't even meet the actors until the day of the shoot.  10:19 That's your husband, that's your child, that's your—so you have to learn. That's why we always say take improv, take improv. Because you have to learn to say oh, annie is now your therapist. Oh, anne's now your sister. Oh, anne's now your lover, now your therapist. Oh, anne's now your sister. Oh, anne's now your lover. Whatever, you have to learn to buy into it very quick and say yes and yes and yes and and for the voiceover on a script. I think it's invaluable because it really allows you to walk into the world of the copy very fast.  10:47 Oh, absolutely, and not second guess it quite as much as we would, as us but to say, okay, well, you know, mcdonald's could be in a fairy tale land. Sure, why not, you know?  10:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I talk to people all the time and my voiceover students all the time about the script and I'm like how many times do you run into your studio and you simply recite the words in a melody that you hear in your head without understanding the story behind it? And when there are words that come up and you're like I have no idea what that means, you just say them, and when you say them with no point of view, you haven't been able to tell a story, you haven't shown that you've done the work. And that's why, when you audition and you can come in with that story and that point of view and you've got that improv, that subtextual understanding, that character backstory, you've got that all figured out, even for an e-learning module I'm just saying Even for corporate then they know that you're an actor and they know that they can cast you and direct you to just about anything and that is the work that we actors must do and if we do that work in voiceover, it's absolutely plausible and possible for you to do it on camera, no question.  11:55 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) And there is that spirit that actors talk about, that takes them over, where it goes from words on a page I'm comprehending it, I'm analyzing it, I'm trying to understand it and profile it to oh, this interpretation that comes over you, that starts to personalize from your reservoir, your emotional reservoir. Well, we're always asking for that in voiceover too. Like, how do I personalize the script, how do I get to my reservoir of tone and emotion so that I don't get sing-songy and I don't fall into cadence and rhythm? It's what a lot of our agents in casting say after they audition talent. That person is not connected.  12:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, absolutely, you need to be connected. You need to be connected. I kind of keep bringing this back to voiceover, sorry, because there's so many parallels where so many people will complain the way the script is written. I'm like that's not your job to complain about how the script is written. I mean, it's your job as an actor to interpret that script and to interpret that script in a way that makes it authentic and believable.  12:57 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yeah, and the reality is, if you really don't like it and you have a right to disagree with it, not like it or just not want to do it then don't do it, rather than coming into the job and saying, well, why is it written this way and why?  13:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) is it?  13:10 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) this way. Well then, already I'm not open to the job, I'm really not open to the job. So we always say when you're coming into a role, don't judge it, don't adjudicate it, don't make commentary on it, as you, as the actor, just try to engage, try to communicate with it, try to personalize it in every way you can, as quickly as possible.  13:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, yes, yes, and that takes practice and we had another podcast that we talked about the amount of work that it takes. Right, that takes practice to do that, to understand that, to do the analysis, to get the acting to understand the subtext and to really do the preparation needed to execute voiceover or on camera, that acting, so that it is something successful for you.  13:56 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yeah, I hear voiceover talent all the time say things like well, this is hard. I would never, say this.  14:02 I would never say this. I said because this isn't you saying this, this is someone else saying this. You're embodying the spirit of someone else. You really are. I mean, we're not asking you to say this or feel this in your kitchen. We're asking you to do this as part of your job. So if you say, well, as part of my job, I'm capable of doing this and this could possibly happen, Well then you open the door Psychologically. You open the door to really authentically, authentically playing it. You open the door to really authentically, authentically playing it. Yeah, absolutely, Because you've already bought into the idea that this could happen. This way.  14:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, yes, you have to buy into the idea. I love that.  14:41 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) You have to buy into it.  14:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You have to buy into the idea.  14:44 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) That's why acting is so fun. Even if you never do anything on camera related or theater related, still do acting class, do improv, do everything you can because it shifts your mindset into a more playful fun place.  15:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I love that. And so what advice would you give people that are in voiceover that want to expand into on-camera? First and foremost, what do they need to do? Who do they need to contact? What classes would they take right? Do they need a reel? What are the essentials?  15:17 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Right, well, our studio does these. I mean, many studios do classes. Now we do our online, of course. I would say one thing, though if you can take an in-studio class in your city, in your town, in your state, definitely do it, because it's a different experience when you're physically in a room with people as an actor versus online. And I would say, do both, because being online is great too. We get to see you on camera, you get to see what it's like just dealing with all the technical elements on camera, but I would also say, be in a room with people as well, see how you like it.  15:50 You have to feel it out, and I would also coach in it as well, so that you can understand audition material. You can see what your type is Similar to voiceover, right, like what is a realistic type for me to go after? What are the different genres I might be interested in? And then, what is an actor reel? How do I build an actor reel? That's all video-based. How do I put that together? What does actors access and casting networks have to do with it? This is before you seek representation. Do not seek representation until you get your trade down, like voiceover. You really have to have the background of understanding an actor's vocabulary. Once you get that actor's vocabulary and you know that, oh, if I go after a commercial, they're going to expect me to memorize the script, I know that. So this is the vocabulary that we speak of. And then you've got to have practice time, practice rehearsal, coaching, classwork. Now.  16:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) La, let's distinguish. I want to hear from you. I know how to distinguish. In my words, how do you distinguish on camera from, let's say, on stage, oh, it's a totally different world in the sense that they're both highly technical worlds.  17:14 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) But it's a different kind of commitment when you do theater, because theater oftentimes is longer, it takes a longer time to rehearse, oftentimes, the performance runs are longer and you have to physically be somewhere in person for a length of time. That can be difficult for theater. That's what they do. They're artists oftentimes, so you should experience that too. Like again go take a stand-up class, go take an improv class, go take something that's short-term, where you're live and you get to be on a stage or you get to be in a studio.  17:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So if you are a theater actor, is it easy to transition to on camera? That's a question I would get from my students, because I have a lot of theater students that come into voiceover.  17:41 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) I would get from my students, because I have a lot of theater students that come into voiceover. You know what? I don't know. I don't overthink that. I think that there's too much chat about that when really excellent actors, like all the Hollywood actors we know and love, all started out in theater. Almost all of them started out in theater and they found ways, as they worked, as they auditioned, to transition, to internalize emotion, to not allow as many physical gyration and physical largeness to happen, but I wouldn't overanalyze it because I think it's a very interesting craft.  18:11 It's a craft and it's one that you learn as you do it. You have to do it to really learn how to do it. You have to work with different directors, different crews, different folks to see how do they see you Similar to voiceover how do they hear you, how do they see you and really start buying into the archetypes that they're seeing you as Like. If I get called out for a role, I'm almost always being called out for some sort of mother role yeah, almost always. So I'm seen as that archetype of that, whatever that is, and then there's all sorts of variations on that theme.  18:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So really have fun with that you know, it's so interesting because a lot of my theater actor students will come to me and then they'll find it somewhat difficult to transition because now that they're behind a microphone they don't have another physical presence to play off of, but they have to bring that imaginary physical presence into the booth with them.  19:06 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) That's exactly right. That's exactly right and that's the thing. I think that's hard for theater actors Some transition well and some do not transition well because they're used to ensemble style rehearsal, so they're used to showing up. There are other people there. You've got a director and they've got energy back and forth.  19:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely, that's something you've got to create in the booth, and same thing with on camera. Even on camera, I mean, there's energy of people maybe behind the camera or maybe energy of people within the scene that you're working with, but a lot of times if you're just being a a one person on camera talent, you've got to play to that camera. So you do and you have to show up prepared.  19:46 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) So when you go in, you have to assume OK, they have X amount of time, they're renting equipment, they're renting location, they're doing all these things so that they can help me shine. I have to know my lines, I have to know what playing a mother is, and then I meet the other actors. So I have to do all that work before I even get on the set, and that's very different than theater, whereas theater is much more organic. You come in and you do your table, read, you discuss it, you grow the characters together. It's a very different kind of process and that's why people love theater and they get addicted to theater.  20:20 Sure, absolutely, because they want that energy back and forth, that energy give and take.  20:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's so interesting because in all of the voiceover theater on camera there are all the similarities in the acting. It's just physically and mentally what you need to do slightly different to get to a place in either one. It's all incredible. All being said, you got to be an actor. So what a great, interesting conversation today, law. Thank you so much for your input and your wisdom on that.  20:47 I love it. Bosses, think about this as a way to maybe expand in your business, and, of course, it's always great to expand your actor skills. It will all help you in the booth in the end. So, absolutely so. Big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can network and communicate like pros like Law and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye, see you next week. Love you guys.  21:16 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Ann Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL coast connectivity via ipdtl.  21:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, I'm so excited to announce our third audition demolition coming up live september 27th, and our uh diet. Ugh, oh shit, all right, damn it. Good morning, kiss me off. That was good too, I know, fucking shit. Audition deadline the 20th Okay, september 27th. All right, that's my problem. I have it written here, but I just don't have it in front of my face, so That'll end up in bloopers next time, ugh.   

00:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Let's create your next demo together. As an award-winning demo producer, I'll work closely with you to craft a demo reel that showcases your unique talents and strengths. My personalized approach is going to ensure that your demo stands out from the crowd and gets you booked. Book a free 20-minute consult today and get started at annganguzacom.  00:27 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, nn Ganguza.  00:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguza, and I am delighted to bring back to the show for our Real Boss series, Mr Tom Deere. Hi, Hi.  00:58 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Tom Hi, hi hi.  00:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hi Tom Dheere, Real Boss, Tom Dheere.  01:01 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, Real Boss and Ganguza. Always great to talk to you.  01:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You too. You know, tom, it's been a week. Oh yeah, yeah, it's been a week, for some reason. I gave a couple of workshops and I've talked to a few people that have just started out in this industry and a few people that have been in the industry for a couple of years, and I constantly I know you hear this all the time because you're the VO strategist I constantly get people who are just so frustrated and they can't get work and they want to give up, and I don't know how many times I can say it's hard, guys. I mean, it just is hard. The work doesn't just come easily, and I feel as though we need to spread some encouragement out there for those bosses who are wondering what's going on. What did I just do? Am I embarking on a career and I'm not seeing any work coming in?  01:53 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) But I think we need to maybe get real, tom yeah, and talk to our bosses, okay, well, the first thing I want to say on that is that for those of you who have put more than one cent, more than zero cents, into trying to become a voice actor, congratulations.  02:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah.  02:14 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) You should be Absolutely Praised and applauded for putting out money and money. You know money is money. Money is obviously what it is, but it's also what it represents. Spending money always represents an investment of some kind, whether it's buying a piece of bubble gum or a new car. Is that you're investing in this thing that you hope will make you happier or make your life easier or move your life forward in some way. So that's encouragement nugget number one. Be proud of yourself. Be proud of yourself that you're watching this video at all bosses. Be proud that you're taking the time out of your very busy day to learn ways to move your voiceover business forward. So just the fact that you're listening to this at all should be applauded.  02:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And even if we back up further, I mean, first of all, congratulations on actually taking the step to being an entrepreneur. I mean, really, that's like step number one is that you had to make a decision, that you wanted to go into business for yourself, and that is something that the majority of people don't do. And so for those that do, take that leap of faith and say I am going to start a business, that is to be commended. That is to be commended. It takes bravery, it takes courage and, again, as Tom said, with the investment, that's a risk. So right now, right off the bat, you've taken risks that you're not quite sure if they're going to pay off or not.  03:37 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Right, and Anne and I will not blow sunshine up your nose and tell you that everybody who works with us or wants to be a voice actor has a 100% chance of becoming a voice actor, because that's just not the reality. But Anne and I do everything in our power to set you up for success so you can make all of your dreams come true of being whatever kind of voice actor is your perfect voice over day, whether it's an e-learning narrator or a cartoon narrator or an audiobook narrator or what have you. But putting yourself out there and saying, I'm going to take this risk, I mean you should be commended on an internal level that you've made that decision. But here's the other thing and I have a lot of experience with this is all of the external factors that are telling you not to do it and you're like, screw you guys. I'm going to be a voice actor Because I had a lot of people in my life, professionally and personally, who didn't understand what I was trying to do Me too and didn't respect what I was trying to do and would mock me behind my back and to my face.  04:40 I remember I was a head host at the time the busiest Applebee's in the world and would mock me behind my back and to my face. I remember I was a head host at the time the busiest Applebee's in the world and I was the guy that ran the door and would get screamed at by everybody for how long it would take for them to get a table and I had some representation. I was booking work here and there, but not enough to leave my full-time job and a hater fellow employee got on the PA in the middle of a busy shift and said Tom, your agent's on line one and your mommy's on line two.  05:11 Click Ha ha, ha, ha ha. Yeah, that actually happened. I'm getting a little PTSD.  05:19 - Intro (Announcement) You know what I mean. There's a lot of haters out there.  05:21 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) There's a lot of people who are jealous because you are trying to make your dreams come true and either their dreams haven't come true or they don't have any dreams at all.  05:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that you brought that up, tom. That's a really lovely perspective Because you're right, just that beginning step, taking that leap of faith and doing something when people assume that probably no, that's not going to work for you, and I think we've all encountered it. So, now that you've taken that step, right now, tom and I are here to encourage you, if it suits you, to encourage you not to give up, because, god, tom, it's hard, it's hard, it's hard, it's not easy. Does it get easier, tom? I don't know. I don't know.  06:00 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) No, it doesn't get any easier, Anne. It just becomes different types of hard. We've talked about this in previous videos, but the challenges that you have when you're early in your voiceover journey, which is I think, those are the toughest sometimes. They are the toughest because they play with your brain. They mess with your head.  06:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They mess with your head.  06:16 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) They mess with your head of? Do I have the ability to make money telling stories, which is really essentially what this is, which is the same problem that actors, stage and theater and on-camera actors have. It's the same problem that musicians have. Musicians are storytellers, you know, all forms of actors are storytellers. Can I make money telling stories? That's really what it comes down to, and many are called, few are chosen, but many are called. Few make the right choices and you, as VO bosses listening to this, are making the right choices.  06:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Few of them stick around right To discover that they did make a good choice. Right, because if you give up too soon, you never know. Right, and again I'll say, the departure from, let's say, corporate is huge. For this right, there's no stable paycheck coming in, and so I think that's a huge sticker shock for people because it's like well, all right, I've done the work, I've paid for coaching, I've got this great demo. Now where's the work?  07:22 And so you're not finished yet, right, that's just the first part, just the first part of your journey is the actual training and then the demo creation, and then, of course, you should always keep up your training, because things change and evolve and you always want to get better. But that's only the very beginning of your entrepreneurship and the beginning of your business. And so, as we mentioned, it does play with your head in the beginning, because a lot of times you're questioning well, do I have what it takes? Am I talented enough? Why am I not getting work? And so you really have to now, if you haven't gotten the proper coaching right, If you haven't spent more than oh, my goodness, I'm going to say you need to spend more than five or six hours coaching with someone before you can really embark on a successful voiceover journey. And we've said that over and over again but, also performance-wise, but also business-wise.  08:10 I mean, thomas, what you do? You help people set up businesses, like all the time. That's what you do, and so that is also a steep learning curve.  08:18 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) It is a steep learning curve. I think one of the biggest challenges for people entering the voiceover industry is that they don't know what they don't know and they need to know. What do I need to have in place to start my voiceover business? So I talk about the four pillars. Every structure needs a solid foundation and in voiceover it's exactly what Anne said Quality training, a professionally produced demo, a setup, vetted home recording studio. And then that fourth pillar is a website, which that's a whole other video.  08:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, it's another podcast episode too.  08:52 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, that's another podcast episode right there. But to have those four pillars in place is critical. But the concrete that you pour, that is that foundation, is the business sense, the business acumen, the business plan. You can have the best demo in the world, but if you don't have a plan to market it effectively, the demo doesn't matter.  09:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And if nobody hears it, they can't buy.  09:15 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, you could have the best website in the world, but if you can't get anybody to it, it doesn't matter. So think about that. So many voice actors coming and put the cart before the horse. They decide they want to be a voice actor and then start buying a microphone or jumping on TikTok and making videos and it's like those things are important. But there's an order to do this, because the fact that you, as VO bosses, know what the basics are, what the foundation is training, demos, website, home recording and then pour the concrete of the business and then you can build the house, build the structure, build the business around that.  09:49 Having those things, now you know, are they perfect when you start out? No, do you sometimes need to start over again? Yes, you know what's the carpenter's rule Measure twice, cut once. A lot of times you don't do that, you just dive in with the buzzsaw and hope good things happen. So be encouraged if you have gotten training. Be encouraged if you've produced a demo with Anne or another great coach. Be encouraged if you've built the website. Be encouraged if you've got the basics of a home recording studio. If you've got that in place now you can start to really build and grow and make accurate assessments about who you are in the voiceover industry and how you're doing.  10:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, absolutely. And again, it takes that perseverance to understand that it's coming and it's not going to happen overnight. That overnight success took what? Over 10 years to cultivate.  10:41 In that respect, and I think about all of the people who I've known that have stuck it out and have grown. I've seen them grow in the industry, people that are just hot today in the voiceover industry because we've been gosh Tom, you and I have been around for a while. So I've seen people who when they started out, I was with them when they started out, as maybe they were a peep or maybe I worked with them a long time ago, and I'm not saying it's just me, but I mean I've had students that I've seen really stick it out, progress, do the work, and I've really seen them come into their own. But it did not happen in a year, two years. A lot of them have been on a journey for five, six, seven years and it's wonderful to see them really shine.  11:24 And I can name a few of people that I've seen shine. The other day, jen Henry right, I saw she got SAG-AFTRA status. And so there's Jen Henry, there's Stefan Johnson, there's Tawny Plattis, who have been at this for years, making content and not necessarily going out there and saying hire me, I'm a voice actor, but doing their thing and creating so much content so that it got their name out there right, and it got them noticed and then it got them hired, yeah.  11:53 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) We have to mention Danielle Fanball.  11:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, absolutely Danielle. I mean of course as well.  11:57 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) She was a student of mine a few years ago and she has just gone on to be a force in the voiceover industry, getting a high-quality representation, working with tons of clients and all kinds of great projects. She's a perfect example of that as someone who came into the industry hungry, open-minded. She just knocked my socks off, she knocked my socks off.  12:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And, as a matter of fact, we're doing guys if you haven't checked it out the Boss Money series with Danielle. She is not only super talented, voiceover wise, but she's got a very savvy business mind. And we do a series on just talking about money, because that is another point where people can sabotage themselves in the whole money area, absolutely.  12:36 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Here's the thing about that, anne, is that your relationship with money is critical to your success as a voice actor. And I don't just mean having it, I mean having it is obviously important to invest and reinvest in your voiceover.  12:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I'm glad you're speaking about it.  12:48 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, some people were trained to hate money, some people were trained to be afraid of money, some people were trained to covet money. Some people were trained to not care about money in the house, at school, at their place of worship, among their friends and relatives. And so often you're fighting against the tide of all the preconceived notions that you have about the voiceover industry and about money. Here's the biggest one, anne, is that employees work for money. Yeah, absolutely, self-employed voice actors make money, work for them. That's Robert Kiyosaki, rich.  13:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Dad, Poor Dad stuff. I love that.  13:26 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Learn to make your money work for you and with you. Learn to have a synergistic relationship with money and your attitude about money when it comes to, obviously, spending it, making it and, most importantly, how to save and invest it in your voiceover career. On a short-term level, you know training, which is also a form of long-term, but also on a long-term, like investing in retirement and long-term investment plans and things like that. So if you are educating yourself, bosses, on what it means to have, make and spend and invest money, you are setting yourself up for success. So, any class you can take with me or with Anne, or any YouTube video that you can watch about investing, empower yourself. Oh my.  14:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) God, and that's the biggest thing, how to empower yourself. And I feel like compelled, as I'm thinking of this, to offer more examples. Christina Milizia, as I'm thinking of this, to offer more examples. Christina Milizia gosh, talented from the get-go. I mean, she's been doing voiceover for gosh. How many years? 30 years, over 30 years.  14:28 - Intro (Announcement) A long time.  14:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I know that she always had her sights set on being in animation and she really has taken off, but it took her many, many years to get there and she was super talented from the get-go. So, christina Melissa, lila Berzins I mean my gosh, I remember talking to Lila. She was a peep of mine a long time ago and she was just so talented and yet she was always wondering how can I get work, how can I get work? How can I get work and she's so talented? And now, man, she's like so hot and all these people that I'm just so happy for that. They had the gumption to just keep pushing forward, keep doing the work, keep marketing and just keep plugging away and ultimately finding their way in this industry so that they're really reaping the rewards and the benefits.  15:15 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) What all of these fabulous voice actors that you mentioned just now have in common is that they're hungry, they're persistent and they're consistent. Yes, absolutely To be consistent in the voiceover industry with your efforts. You need to be relentless. The voiceover industry does not care how tired you are.  15:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely.  15:36 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) They don't care what's going on in your life.  15:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It doesn't care about the drama in your life. It really doesn't.  15:40 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Nope, nope, nope, nope. You either have to learn to put the drama aside or use whatever energy that you get from the drama that's going on in your life and learn how to channel it into something positive or at least consistent. Like I have anxiety. Yeah, I have diagnosed anxiety and I have turned it into a superpower. Anxiety is the fear of not knowing what's going to happen next. You worry and fret about whatever usually social, interpersonal situations or things like that. But as a result of me getting lots and lots of great therapy and just being around and sticking around, I've learned how to turn my anxiety into a superpower, because I'm prepared for everything.  16:22 I'm a firm advocate of Murphy's law Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. So I have all of these tools logistical, physical, environmental, financial, mental, emotional, psychological to anticipate any problems that may arise in my voiceover career, and I am prepared. So if the worst thing that I can think of happens and I'm ready for it it and I am prepared. So if the worst thing that I can think of happens, and I'm ready for it, it's going to be okay. So I turned a disadvantage of mine into an advantage, and you can do that too. All of you can do that too. All of you have your own hangups, anxieties, worries, fears, physical or mental or psychological challenges, but you can either figure out how to overcome them, set them aside or harness them, use them to enhance your voiceover career and enhance your efforts and your results.  17:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I think also too, is be aware. Be aware of the industry. I mean, be aware of trends in the industry, and not just trends in voiceover industry, but be aware of customers who want to purchase your voice. Be aware of what they want, be aware of what their needs are and really take some time to investigate.  17:24 I don't know many people that take it upon themselves to investigate the market right. So many people are like I've got a great commercial demo, I've got a great animation demo, I've got a great oh gosh. If I could give a nickel for the time somebody said I want to do museum tours, if I could give a nickel for the time somebody said I want to do museum tours or I want to do history. But I implore you, I implore you bosses and I'm not saying you can't do museum tours or be history documentarian I implore you to understand the market size, okay, of how many museums are there, and I'm just using this as an example how many museums are there right in the United States and, by the way, I Googled this just the other day there's about 35,000.  18:03 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Okay, I was just about to Google that. Thanks for doing the work.  18:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So how often are there new exhibits that might require voiceover? Okay, not that often, because there's a season for exhibits right in museums A lot of times. It's historical, it's been there forever and probably they've got a voice that has been the voice and they've got that system that you put on the headphones and they've had a voiceover there and so they probably don't need to change it if the history hasn't changed, right about it.  18:32 And so if you put all those things together and you say okay, so how many opportunities do I have to become a narrator for museum tours? Right, that's not a huge market compared to again, I always tell people corporate, because that's my shtick but corporate 30.4 million registered companies. They all need to sell a product. They all need to train somebody on that product and or a customer on that product. They need to train their internal staff on safety policies and HR procedures and also how to sell their product. So that's a lot of opportunities. So if you want to know why work isn't coming your way and maybe you've spent all of your money on just the smaller markets, consider really investing time. It doesn't take a lot right to investigate the market for things. All I did was Google how many museums are there in the United States and then think about it how often are they going to need a voice?  19:25 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, one thing that a lot of voice actors do early in their journey is disqualify themselves from work that doesn't seem to appeal to them because they only want to do this one thing, yeah, yeah, yeah. The strain of voice actors who want to do the museum tours. I call them PBS voice actors.  19:41 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, there's so many of them. I'm a PBS person too, me too.  19:44 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I watch PBS all the time. We adore it. But those that are interested in the intellectual, historical artistic documentaries.  19:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) How many documentaries are there? I've done that Google search Also.  19:54 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Very, very few yeah yeah, right, but it also applies to the cartoon and animation voice actors that are out there.  20:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, absolutely, absolutely.  20:02 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) This is another one.  20:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And now, not only how many animation shows are there, then you've got to think about who hires people to do animation shows. Right, that's typically broadcast, right? Broadcast, you know, on the air or streaming.  20:14 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Or streaming or streaming right.  20:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But again, those amount of companies that we'll hire are finite, right? 25,000 networks I think you have to Google me and check me, but I did that research as well 25,000 networks, again, compared to the amount of companies out there who have a product to sell, right. Right 25,000 is nothing. And again, remember, they might already have a voice. They maybe aren't looking for a new voice, and so, when those opportunities come around and evolve, those are the ones you'll audition for, along with all the other people who want to do animation.  20:48 I could do corporate narration that talks about the history of a company. Right, it's similar. It's similar. It may not be exactly the same, but it can feel similar. A lot of corporate documentaries are lovely if they've got good writing, but think of those other markets that are larger and will give you more opportunities.  21:15 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yes, I always tell my students that all voice acting is storytelling. All genres of voice acting are storytelling. All stories have a beginning, a middle, an end, an arc and a message, whether it's a cartoon character or it's hours of corporate narration.  21:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, or even an e-learning lesson. Every lesson has an introduction, points to the lesson and a conclusion.  21:37 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I approach all of my voiceover work and I do a lot of different genres. Like every week I'm doing political explainer, corporate commercial. I'm doing all kinds of genres every week. I approach all of them from a position of play and a position of storytelling. So people are like, oh you know, but the HR stuff is boring and I'm like you know what so is being hungry, so I find the joy in it.  22:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You have to find the joy in it, because if you find the joy in it, the people that are listening to you will also be inspired and motivated.  22:07 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Right. So here's something I've learned recently, anne because we're talking about how to motivate our bosses is that I have learned that there are between intrinsic motivators and extrinsic motivators. So you want to find intrinsic and extrinsic motivators to get you to do the things that you need to do to move your voiceover business forward. So, like an extrinsic motivator is, if I do five auditions, I'll give myself a cookie, because you may have trouble being motivated to do auditions, for whatever reason.  22:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, I couldn't be giving myself a cookie.  22:36 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Well, no well, you just lost all that, Maybe an article of clothing or a lipstick?  22:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm not sure.  22:40 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Fine, that's an and thing or whatever, or it's an action figure or a comic book or whatever. So find, if you need some kind of carrot to be able to motivate yourself to do a task, whatever it is voiceover related, whether it's auditions or invoicing or anything else. And then there's intrinsic motivators. What can you find within yourself to make the task more pleasurable? You know like, for example, I'm going to give you the worst, dumbest example in the world is that there's this Disney short. Remember the Disney shorts when we were growing up.  23:08 Yes, absolutely. So there was one of like the chunky park ranger. He would talk like this no-transcript everywhere.  23:23 And the park ranger's like, oh, bother, I wish I wouldn't have to clean all this up by myself. And then all these bears are just lying around hanging out and he's like, hmm, that gives me an idea. And then he goes hey, everybody, we're going to play a game. And all the bears are like, yeah, let's play a game. And he gives all of them a bag and then like a stick with a little spike on it that you use to clean up. Then he's like all right, here we go. First you pick it up, then you put it in the bag, bump, bump. Then you dance around, then you do this Bump, bump, bump, da-da-da-da-da. And then they saw him in the hammock.  24:04 Just kind of relaxing and they're all like wait a minute and then they threw all the garbage all over the place. But he found not in the right way. He found an intrinsic motivator to make a boring or tedious or frightful task more fun and interesting. So it would get done.  24:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I like that example. First of all, thank you, Tom, for that. That's going to be some good sound clips here.  24:25 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) It's in the bag, by the way. Go on Google and just Google. Disney in the bag, and that's the short. It's delightful.  24:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love it. I love it and you know, honestly, the fact is, most people say I don't know the subject, or it could be boring, or HR policies are boring. I mean, in reality, that, to me, is the challenge. So, if you want to have a creative challenge that stimulates, you, take the most boring material and I want you to make it motivating and inspiring for somebody to listen to, right there. That's all I need. That's all I need is the creative challenge of it for me to be excited by it, and when I'm excited by it, I can stand a chance of making you excited by it. Right, or at least I'm passionate about getting my point across and like saying here OSHA regulations dictate that you need to do this to be safe.  25:10 Now that to me. I want to make that very maybe not exciting for the listener, but I want to make sure that they hear me, and so I have to make sure that I am inspiring and motivating in my own way for my audience, and so I have another.  25:25 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) We'll call it a trick, but, like the stereotypical, most boring form of voiceover is guiding employees through their insurance. Right, that's the stereotypically most quote unquote boring, but this is what I do Whenever I'm tasked with that. I've done that for clients over the years. Is, I think, about the single mom with three kids, one of which has special needs? Sure, and that mom is terrified of picking the wrong prescription plan.  25:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely.  25:54 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) So I intrinsically motivate myself by talking just to that single mom, through my subtext and my tone and my cadence and my rhythm. I'm telling that single mom, everything's going to be okay, I'm going to walk you through this.  26:08 - Intro (Announcement) It's a lot easier than you think.  26:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We're going to go through this.  26:11 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Together. We're going to get through this and you're going to take care of yourself and take care of your children.  26:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that you said that, because I have a lot of pharmaceutical stuff. I read the back of labels and so I'm always imagining I am that patient that I'm frantically looking at the back of the label because I need to know what my dosage is, or obviously I've probably had 10 of the symptoms already and therefore I must take myself to the hospital immediately because I'm experiencing all the symptoms. But I say that sarcastically, but in I say that sarcastically but in reality that is kind of me, I mean, and so I will read that label with that compassion and understanding that people need to hear the important things and that's what makes me excited about what I do. And I love how we've just discussed the motivation for people to because this is hard, right to make it less hard so that you can experience joy in all aspects of this career, in all stages and phases of this career, because it's not going to happen overnight, guys. It just it does not happen 0.00001% of the time. Maybe there's one person who has experienced success, but not overnight. I don't know of anyone in this industry.  27:18 So good discussion, bosses, don't give up. Don't give up. Motivate yourself, stick it out, do the work, understand that it's not easy. And does it get easier? I mean, I know that we discussed this already. Does it get easier? Not really, because I think we always find new challenges, we're always evolving, we're always growing. So keep your eyes on the marketplace, keep your eyes on how you can evolve as a business and, because that is going to help you stay in the market, it's going to help you stay successful once you get there. Good discussion, tom. Thank you so much for that valuable input and that wonderful character that you I don't remember the name of the park ranger.  27:56 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) But you can find it Now.  27:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I've got to find the park ranger name. All right, bosses, I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network and listen to Tom Dheere like a boss, while he does his character impressions and myself I didn't do any character. Maybe next podcast, tom.  28:15 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Now. You have to do it next time.  28:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now.  28:24 - Intro (Announcement) I'm going. You have to do it next time. Yeah, now I'm going to have to do it. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye, bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission, coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

The BOSS Anne Ganguzza sits down with the dynamic Laura Doman, discussing her creative journey from high-tech sales to on-camera/voiceover actor. Her story is a testament to the power of following your passion, no matter your stage of life. The BOSSES explore the evolving landscape of on-camera and voiceover work, highlighting the growing demand for diverse and older talent. They discuss strategies for combating ageism, including the use of humor and embracing one's unique qualities. The BOSSES reflect on the dynamics of working with younger teams and the importance of authenticity in creating memorable roles. The conversation also touches on empowering women in the voiceover industry and how past professional experiences can complement new ventures. 00:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey guys, Anne Ganguzza here. Imagine a voiceover journey where every step is filled with discovery and growth. That's the path I want to work on with you, through nurturing coaching and creative demo production. Let's unveil the true potential of your voice together. It's not just about the destination, it's about the gorgeous journey getting there. Are you ready to take the first step? Connect with me at anganguzacom.  00:32 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am very excited to have with me in the studio a special guest on-camera actor, video communications coach, speaker and author, Laura Doman. Laura's voiceover and on-camera credits include commercials and industrials for AAA, home Depot, the United Way, equifax and Bobo's Oat Bars, as well as many more, and lead and supporting roles in films, tv web series and new media. Laura, I am so excited. Thanks so much for joining us on the show today. Oh, thank you, anne. It's such a delight to be here, yay. Well, let's start off for the bosses who are not familiar with you Tell us a little bit about your journey into acting, because I know you've been in acting forever and voiceover and, yeah, how it all started?  01:40 - Laura Doman (Co-host) Well, I guess I would just say I am in my second childhood andA having the time of my life. I am definitely in that third stage of life, but acting is something I've always loved. I was the little kid putting on plays in the neighborhood all through school. I did the morning announcements in high school.  01:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, of course you did. I can totally hear that yeah.  02:00 - Laura Doman (Co-host) And I had a lot of fun. I even trained other kids how to do it, because the school found it was one way to get the kids to finally quiet down in homeroom and listen. Well, I ended up going into a corporate career, but I ended up in high-tech sales, where my favorite thing was surprise, surprise presentations, being able to go to conferences, be a speaker, anything where I could just do a little razzle-dazzle in front of people. After I did that for a number of years, though, I took a straight turn off to the right and became a stay-at-home mom, something I never envisioned, but that gave me a chance to take a look at what do I really want to do with my life? And once my kids got old enough, I decided hey, you know, we're not getting any younger. When I'm on my deathbed I don't want to have any regrets. And when I was in my corporate job, I would sneak out of some of those sales calls.  02:53 And I did do on-camera commercials. I did some film roles, I did some TV commercials. I did a little bit of everything, and I said you know what? I'm going to dive into it, what the heck? And so I did, and I started first on camera. And just for anybody who's wondering if you're too old to get started, that was, oh, I was in my mid to hear it, but she is. She was in the musical theater and she was begging Mom. I really want to do film and TV and all I could think of, as the responsible parent, was school let's think about this. And I thought, well, she may not get into any agency. Somebody picked her up and then they were looking for older actors, so I dusted off my materials. I did that. I ran into a friend who told me you can get some real voiceover training. I found the Atlanta VoiceOver Studio, which is incredible, and then I had both of those going and that's where my acting career just sort of took off.  03:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wow, so did you find that you were getting on-camera roles first and then voiceover, or were they both kind of coming at the same time?  04:05 - Laura Doman (Co-host) Well, definitely the on-camera. And I had enough hubris to think well, I had experience, I had training way back when I could just do it and I booked a bunch. All of a sudden I realized I don't know enough and I went back for training and then I started getting a request for voiceover, especially anything with the teleprompter. Now, in my personal opinion, the teleprompter is the love child between on-camera and voiceover.  04:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Sure is yes, that's a great analogy that is a great analogy.  04:33 - Laura Doman (Co-host) I love it. It is the best of both worlds. First of all, you're on camera, but you don't have to memorize a darn thing. I know.  04:41 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's such a relief. I mean because when I was in school I was in plays and I just remember, oh God, memorizing those lines was just so. I mean I loved it, but it was so tedious and I'm like teleprompter now. This is pretty cool. I don't have to memorize anymore.  04:56 - Laura Doman (Co-host) Especially the older you get. Yeah, it's hard. Now, one thing I did find by memorizing a lot of lines not so much monologues but big scenes was that the brain cells started waking up, and it's a muscle. The more I did it, the better I got at it. So if you want to stay young, Memorize yes.  05:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I like that you mentioned this, and actually one of the reasons why I really did want to have like a conversation with you today was you talked about you've evolved over the years and your second childhood, and talking about voiceover and on camera. I'd like to talk to you about your thoughts on ageism because, being a woman of a certain age, I have experienced a certain amount of ageism in my careers over the years and I think we should have a discussion. Let's talk about that. How has ageism affected you in the on-camera world and or in voiceover?  05:51 - Laura Doman (Co-host) Well, it's kind of interesting because we all have a mental age of what we look like and it's usually, in my case, 15, 20 years younger than I really am. But you have to go with how you look. Now, with voice, it's how does your voice print sound Right and you could be many decades younger. But on camera usually you play within about 10 years of your real age. So it could be a bit of a wake-up call first of all, to come to terms with it. Yeah, you could take great care of yourself, but they also cast people a little bit younger. So I have been doing things for AARP and Medicare and retirement communities. Now that I'm getting into that age it's not that unusual. But they never know what they really want. Oftentimes they want people who really look old and in the on-camera world they're not necessarily looking for pretty model types For a long time. They're looking for what they call real people. Yeah, anybody off the street. Thank goodness it turned to that, didn't it.  06:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean, would you say like reality TV kind of, at least started the evolution of maybe having real people on television. I mean, even though real TV I mean that could be a whole nother podcast, if it's really real TV but in terms of not everybody on television has to be attractive and young.  07:02 - Laura Doman (Co-host) Oh, yeah, you know what? I noticed this when I compare it before reality TV to now. Back in the late 80s, early 90s, when I was sneaking out doing all this stuff, I was told that I was too get this exotic for the Atlanta market, where I live. I should go to Miami or New York. Why? Because I look Middle Eastern, I look Hispanic, I look New Yorkish and I have dark hair. And whenever they would ask me to play a businesswoman, they just said you're not quite right, I am a businesswoman. Oh, no, no, no, those are pert little cute blondes with little pageboy haircuts. It's completely reversed. The people that they're looking for are of multiple ethnicities, mixed ethnicity, and they don't want model types. And I think reality TV did play a big role because people want to identify and they want real stories.  07:54 So I do believe that's part of it. As far as the ageism is concerned, I definitely was seeing that in the corporate world and my friends who are still in it are having a horrible time, but I haven't found it so much on camera Now. Partly it's because they do need older roles and thank goodness they are finally running some really good juicy ones. You know, I just did a web series where I was playing an evil, murderous stepmother. I love it. Usually I play sweet mothers and grandmas.  08:24 They had a stunt coordinator who was showing me how to slap, punch, hit, take a knife, stab. I normally don't get those kind of roles and they're realizing older people have some interesting things going on. But sometimes they're going to be worried and I had a series on camera a little well, I stick it on YouTube now called Actors Over 50. There are some casting directors wondering can you memorize? Can?  08:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) you handle all this.  08:50 - Laura Doman (Co-host) Are you going to be able to physically handle any of the movements we require? Do you have the stamina?  08:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wow, and those are things that I wouldn't have even thought. I mean, my next question was going to be what strategies do you have for combating ageism? And those thoughts about yeah, can you, do you have the stamina?  09:07 - Laura Doman (Co-host) You know what? You just probably announced who you are and I have found that when you're older, you care a lot less what people think and you can have a lot more fun. Older, you care a lot less what people think and you can have a lot more fun. And I've been using humor and everything so I make light of it so I could be like the snarky grandma I can be the person who has something funny to say. Sometimes, when you have a very young group of people you're working with, you are going to be sidelined because you're not their generation and you're older and you're ignored. But there are many others who want to hear what you have to say and they love it when you say something they didn't expect out of you.  09:41 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I love that, and so in voiceover, do you have any instances where you might have been looked over because of I don't know your age? Or was it something that wasn't really relevant, because we're behind the mic and we're theoretically not seen?  10:00 - Laura Doman (Co-host) I haven't found that so much, mostly because they're dealing with a voice. I did do a directed session for a group in Milan, italy, and they were looking for a younger voice. This was a few years back and I think they did a double take. When they saw that I'm not in my 20s, they were fine with it Again. They only wanted the finished product. I don't find it so much, except that when I'm dealing with a very young group of people, sometimes they just aren't comfortable with you. They don't know how to relate to you. I try to warm it up by being friendly and professional, but I also realize okay, that's where they are in their lifetimes. They're just not comfortable with people over a certain age. I remind them too much of their mothers, grandmothers that nasty old aunt.  10:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I don't know, I don't have a nasty aunt, but I got it. So then would you say that opportunities for, let's say, bosses just starting out that might be older, like are there ample opportunities both on?  10:55 - Laura Doman (Co-host) camera and inover for their age. Yes, there are tons. Now the one nice thing about let me talk about on camera first, think of it as a bit of a funnel. You got a lot of young people at the top of the funnel. They're teens and they're 20s. But as you work through it, as people get older, a lot of people, especially the women, drop off. A lot of those who start young often will drop off when they have families or when they get to 35, 40. They don't want to be seen on camera or they just find there are fewer roles.  11:24 But for those of us who've started later on and who don't feel like we need to be the lead and we're not going to ever be the ingenue, let's scoop up and take advantage of the vacuum and if we have a unique type and we can bring our real selves which is something you learn and train in voiceover they love it because they're not necessarily casting for a very specific type. Sometimes. They are Most often like with voiceover. They want to know what do you have to bring to the table? We want to see the authentic. You Just like in voiceover, they want to know what do you have to bring to the table. We want to see the authentic.  11:57 You Just like in voiceover, just like you've always told me and countless others, don't worry about what you think they want. Bring yourself, because then they could be delightfully surprised. And there are some really great roles. There are going to be smaller ones. For the most part we are going to be supporting characters, but we can be memorable and you'd be surprised by how many times you can be called back in because of that particular memorable role. So think quality I love it Not necessarily quantity.  12:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So then, over the years, you've done just a wonderful job of evolving and growing and actually reinventing yourself right, and I think that's definitely a wonderful trait of a boss. So talk about what were some of those challenges, when you were starting to reinvent yourself, that you faced, because it's not easy to do.  12:49 - Laura Doman (Co-host) It's not easy to do, especially if you're older and you're used to being somewhat successful in a previous career. All of a sudden, you're starting at ground zero. That's where you want to adopt a Zen mind, the beginner's mind, because when I was starting out in voiceover, I was already in my late 50s and I looked at people like Ann Ganguza and I went, oh my gosh, how can I possibly compete with Ann? And then I would do the same thing in the on-camera world. I'm way behind. I only have so many years. What do I do? That is where you just clear off all that junk. It's your journey.  13:24 You are a unique person and, yes, it probably will take a long time to build up momentum and when you're older, you can lean into things, though that other people have a hard time doing. Your life experience for one. If you come from another industry, like the corporate world, I can bring the voice of experience and authority and knowledge. You want tech terminology. I'm going to give you tech terminology which other people may not be able to do or be comfortable with, so you just have to be willing to pay your dues.  13:54 Start off, be humble, listen to people that are younger than you that could be your kids and follow your own journey. Personally, I don't want to leave any regrets on the table and I don't know how long my run is, but I am going to make the most of the time I have and I am scooping up and repackaging everything I've ever learned in my life, including that corporate job, and I'm finding it extremely useful. For example, while I do my acting on camera and in voiceover, I am also bringing everything I've learned now as a service coaching, consulting to business people who want to get better on camera themselves, like for videos, zoom presentations, interviews, online appearances. If you're older, you've got that. I'm scooping up my business know-how with the entertainment, giving them the best tips, talking their language and sticking it out there.  14:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wonderful. So how do you juggle it all? Because you're doing voiceover, you're doing on-camera, you're doing coaching. How do you juggle all of these? And I say that as a person who has multiple I call it multiple divisions of my business myself and I know how hard it is to manage VO boss, vo peeps and ganguza coaching and ganguza demo production. So talk to us about how you do the juggling act successfully, because sometimes people can say, oh, you're stretched too thin and you're not going to do anything. Wonderfully well, yeah.  15:19 - Laura Doman (Co-host) I'm told sometimes I'm very busy, but first of all I do stay up late when everything is quiet.  15:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I can get things done. I work seven and a half days a week. Yeah, no.  15:27 - Laura Doman (Co-host) Yeah, the other thing is my husband is retired. A lot of women find this he's underfoot, so I have to throw him out of my office more times than I can count. So you got to have a backbone. But mostly it's a matter of prioritization what's most important, what are those top things you have to do? And when you're juggling things, I look to see how they are integrated and support one another. When I go after opportunities, my favorites are the ones that require both on-camera experience and voiceover, and occasionally I found one that includes all three, because there's a teleprompter thrown in and sometimes they're looking for somebody who could do it all. So I try to find those opportunities. Sometimes it's voiceover for film or TV. I was just at Tyler Perry Studios. Talk about cool For voiceover.  16:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I saw that. I saw your post on Facebook. Very cool, very cool.  16:19 - Laura Doman (Co-host) Yeah, incredible guy to work for, I mean, an amazing studio. There have been e-learning where they also want to make it into a virtual reality and their employees are supposed to learn about DEI but they don't want to preach. So I did a job a few years ago which was on camera, voiceover, teleprompter and print and they wanted to take it into the future, into a fantasy world where genetic splicing was a thing and the kids were all into it and I'm the mother of a high school senior looking at colleges going, huh, these kids are putting animal DNA. There's a cat boy and a girl dog. You're not bringing one of those home. I don't think you should be with those people. They're not really people and the whole training was to see what's the right course and either you answered correctly and the mother was open-minded or, boom, you go back and try again.  17:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wow. Well, let's talk about how you market yourself for all of these things, because you're like you're finding these opportunities, but how are you finding them and how are you marketing yourself? Because I've seen now you're doing a lot of video online, which is great, and it's not about hire me, hire me. It's basically just showing a really cool aspect of your personality. So talk a little bit about your marketing strategies.  17:35 - Laura Doman (Co-host) I try to share, teach and also entertain, and by doing so I can highlight everything that I'm doing. I'll start off with the entertainment. You know those little sayings you see on cocktail napkins and towels when you go into a gift shop. I started writing all those down a few years ago and I call them my mom-isms and I go in and I act them out Five to ten second videos that are cute, funny, boom, and they're very popular on LinkedIn.  18:01 It shows what I could do on camera. It shows what I could do with voiceover, sure, and it shows a sense of humor. I also share my tips on on-camera confidence and I make everything now in short video form under 60 seconds, and again, I try to pack a lot of value into it so people will watch it from start to finish, and I share that widely. I've done the same thing for older actors, to show people, not just older actors as a service, but for anybody else who'd be looking. And then I've got a few other series in mind. But it's a matter of sharing what you know. Don't be afraid of that and let them entertain themselves while they're watching it, and that way you're memorable.  18:41 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, you know what I love. You know what I love. I love that you said LinkedIn, and I caught you on that because I like how you're directing those videos on a platform towards the audience that you are selling to. And LinkedIn, yeah, absolutely, because I was going to say what about TikTok? Well, tiktok is another story these days, but what about Instagram? What about videos on Facebook? So are you choosing platforms based upon where you feel that your market is strategically?  19:08 - Laura Doman (Co-host) Well, right, now I'm putting them out just about everywhere because I can. The biggest focus is on LinkedIn where ironically, my momisms are the most popular. I get the most response from that. Instagram is great for on-camera work and I have been advised to divide it into two channels One which is just showing me as funny, humorous the actor part of my life, and then another one which is showing the on-camera confidence and that's going to be all the professional content. I am heavily into YouTube.  19:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I was going to say I didn't want to neglect the YouTube platform, because I also do a lot of shorts on YouTube and Instagram as well, and LinkedIn as well.  19:46 - Laura Doman (Co-host) Yeah, I mean, I have a YouTube channel for me and one separate for momisms for the humorous. I also put them on. I have a Facebook, which is more personal, but I've started a Facebook page Because you never know where you're going to find people. I've been throwing my momisms on TikTok to see if there's an audience for that.  20:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I'm everywhere and I keep a strong calendar to keep track of everything. Sure, I was going to say, like, do you have specific days where you're recording these things and let's talk about, like, your posting strategy? Is it every day, is it once a week, and how are you tracking your progress on different channels?  20:20 - Laura Doman (Co-host) I should have brought it down because I could show you a book. It's actually one of those little free realtor books you get when somebody's trying to market their service. Yeah, and it's a big calendar because I like to be able to see at a glance how much I am doing on any particular channel. I will be putting the name in little notes here with the color of that particular social media. Blue is LinkedIn. This does not surprise me.  20:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Just knowing you, Laura.  20:46 - Laura Doman (Co-host) No no.  20:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Laura, it's probably beautiful and I would love to see that someday You're going to have to send us a photo and I'll put it on the show notes for people, because I'm sure it's wonderful, because I'm like, oh gosh, I mean I wish I could be color coordinated, or I mean I'm as organized as I can be, but I'm not quite color coordinated, organized, but yeah, You'll also see things that are crossed out because, oh my goodness, I just got so busy I didn't get to it.  21:12 - Laura Doman (Co-host) But I try to lay it out. So when I'm creating my videos, I will go ahead and schedule it that way. Anything that I could load ahead of time natively on a social media platform, I will. I do not use a scheduler.  21:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I was just going to ask you because Facebook has changed the rules just FYI and Instagram now, because I think they're trying to. If you're verified and you pay the subscription price, you're not getting the traction that you were before, and that is one of those things that everybody's freaking out about.  21:40 - Laura Doman (Co-host) Yeah, and one advantage of doing it on your own and I got this from Hunter Peterson and I'm happy to put a plug in for him because he helped me with the YouTube strategy is that you want to use your mobile phone to be able to put your videos natively, because if you just do it on your desktop or other, you don't have any control over the thumbnail, and that thumbnail is so important, whatever it is. So I do it on my own natively and I just schedule them out. I try to batch the videos I'm creating. I might do four or five momisms at a time, three on camera confidence.  22:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, yeah, because you have to prepare. I mean, I know, for me I have video day, which is typically Thursdays and Saturdays. I've got to be camera ready and that doesn't always happen on a day-to-day basis. And that takes part of my day too. I'm like this takes a long time. The hair Well, that's a whole other conversation.  22:35 - Laura Doman (Co-host) No, it's a good conversation.  22:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean, it's definitely something that we need to talk about.  22:39 - Laura Doman (Co-host) Well, I'll tell you that there are oftentimes I have to just throw the whole calendar out the window because in the on-camera world, when something comes calling that has to take priority Very short turnarounds because you got to memorize and you got to get the hair all done up?  22:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I love this conversation about being camera ready and voiceover ready, and scheduling has always been one of those things. It's incredibly important. I live by my calendar, so you have the posting calendar, but I live by my Google calendar, so is yours just? Is it straight up on a physical calendar or oh no, no, no, you do digital as well.  23:15 - Laura Doman (Co-host) We can learn from our children. My daughter is so proud of me because I always did something on a little pocket calendar. Remember those Hallmark calendars?  23:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, I do. I used to write in them myself, yep.  23:27 - Laura Doman (Co-host) I used those ever since my grandmother bought them for me when I was little. Yes, well, my daughter just said Mom, google Calendar, you can color code it. Oh, yes, so that's what I do and I love that. But when it comes to scheduling, my Realtors calendar gets a lot of use and I could put everything there because I'm still very visual and it was very helpful because I was gone for, let's say, a month traveling and I was trying to plan everything out and I even brought that thing with me so that when I had something specific to add in, I had a lot of flexibility. Like, I'm very big into in-person networking and when I am there and I have photos, I want to be able to put them in. And I relate it to business? Sure, absolutely.  24:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, oh man. I'll tell you, laura, what advice would you give for bosses maybe starting out a little bit later in their careers and wanting to do on camera or voiceover what's your best tips and advice for them?  24:25 - Laura Doman (Co-host) Have fun, the only reason you should be doing something really, especially later in life. We all have freedom. Many of us might have the financial freedom from having bankrolled from previous careers or there is somebody else in the family who is still working or you've got a retirement. Do it because you love it, because that joy, that sincerity, that authenticity is going to come through.  24:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that and you know, that's just something that I didn't even think about, because when you don't have the stress or the worry of like that financial burden, where you're like I've got to feed the six kids and pay the mortgage and yeah, that really brings a lot to your plate and is, I would say, a huge advantage for those later on in life.  25:09 - Laura Doman (Co-host) Absolutely yeah that and the fact that you might as well do something you've always wanted, and you would just be very surprised by how many people don't know things. For example, when I was in the corporate world, people were amazed by anybody who shows any level of creativity. When I was working on the flip side and I was helping to organize meals for monologues, they were amazed my God, you're an actor and you're so organized.  25:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, you're an actor who has a head for business, which is another thing that I love about you, laura, is that really? I think that it's something that, as creatives and bosses, I think it's one of the hardest things for some people to grasp hold of is that this is your business and there's a lot of business things you need to do in order to be successful, and you've proven it as you've evolved so successfully over the years.  25:59 - Laura Doman (Co-host) And you also have to be able to change with the times. When I started my corporate world back in the early 80s because I'm that old I was dial in for dollars. Now everything is done with social media and social marketing or emailing, and so you have to be willing to learn. Like I'm part of Mark Scott's Veopreneur community, I did the mastermind. I think what Paul Schmidt is doing is incredible. There's so many others. You have to be willing to be open-minded and it's one thing to be older and experienced and know something about this, but you have to be aware that you don't know a lot about that and there's still a lot to learn from younger people.  26:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think we just have to be lifelong learners. That's it. I mean, that's the educator part in me, and I love to learn. I think we should always be learning and, laura, we've definitely learned so much from this discussion today. Thank you so much. You've just shared a lot of wisdom that even I like kind of go through it myself as a woman of a certain age, but I'll tell you what you really brought it to light. And thank you so much for spending time with us today.  26:58 - Laura Doman (Co-host) Well, thank you. My pleasure and I'm delighted to be here Awesome.  27:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All right, I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can network like bosses like myself and Laura. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week.  27:20 - Intro (Announcement) Bye, bye-bye with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry-revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Learn how to transform money aspirations into concrete financial plans in our next episode of the Boss Money Talks series with Danielle Famble. The BOSSES guide you through setting precise financial goals, breaking down larger targets into manageable segments, and preparing for the variable and unpredictable income streams that are so common in the voiceover industry. The BOSSES dive deep into strategies for creating financial freedom through strategic growth. They discuss the powerful impact of investing in yourself and your business, whether that means hiring help, taking breaks for self-care, or seeking out coaching and training. Tune in to discover how financial stability can lead to better business decisions, higher quality work, and long-term success in the competitive world of voiceover. 00:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, amazing voiceover talents. Do you ever wish boss marketing was as fun as it was being behind the mic? Well, check out my VO Boss Blast. It's designed to automate and make your marketing simpler. You'll benefit from your very own target marketed list, tailored to meet your goals and your brand the VO Boss Blast. Find out more at voboss.com.  00:28 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, nne Ganguza.  00:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Money Talks series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguza, and I'm here again with the lovely Danielle Famble to talk money today. Hey Danielle, hey Anne, it's good to be back with you. Yes, I love talking money, me too.  01:05 Money money, money. So, speaking of money, we were just having a conversation where we love to. Well, I love to shop online. I will readily admit that, and I think it's important that we think about do I have the money to spend on this? Do I have financial goals for my business? Do I have the money to spend on this? Do I have financial goals for my business?  01:24 Because another thing that I will also do with my students is when they first start working with me, they have to fill out a goal sheet, and I think that a lot of times, we know what performance goals I want to get work. I want to work in this genre, I want to get an agent. We have all the performance goals and, oh, I want to have a business, or I want to have a thriving business, but I don't think many of us get very specific about financial goals. Again, it's one of those things where I think people think if they don't look at it it's kind of like don't look at my credit card statements that maybe they'll go away. But no, we've got to really keep our eyes open and look to the future, and I think it's a good time to talk about how to set financial goals for your business.  02:04 - Danielle Famble (Host) Yeah, no. That's really important because for me in the past I've always just said with a financial goal, I just want more. I want to make more money, I want to have more, and it's not specific at all, it's just more or mentality. What you're lacking in that specificity tells you what is enough and how you know when you've reached your goal, so that you can either make more goals or become more targeted on that goal. So more usually was my goal and I never felt like I hit it.  02:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Or for me it would be like oh well, I want to make a six-figure income, and so I don't think that's specific enough. Right, right, like how do I get to that six-figure income from day one right and day 30 and day 60, like on a monthly basis or on a weekly basis? How am I achieving those goals?  02:58 - Danielle Famble (Host) Yeah, and I think what you could do then is say, okay, if you want to make a six-figure income, okay, what is six figures? Is it specifically $100,000? Is it $ Five hundred thousand? Five hundred thousand dollars? All of these things are absolutely possible, but what is the specific six figure For me? If I were saying you know I want a six figure income, I would want to say, all right, is it one hundred thousand dollars? If it's one hundred thousand dollars, then you can divide that by 12. Yeah, just round numbers and then figure out that you need to make that number per month and you'll know monthly if you're on target to hit that amount or not, also considering things like expenses and taxes and things like that. So it's a question of are you wanting to just bring in that amount of money? Are you trying to bring in that amount of money after expenses? Like, getting specific about these financial goals really helps. You know when you've hit your target or not.  03:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, right. And the more specific I think you can get, I think, the more achievable it may seem to you. Because it's all well and good to say I want to make I don't know. $8,000 a month, right? So $8,000 a month times 12, right, that doesn't quite get you to 100, right. So $8,000 a month times 12, right, that doesn't quite get you to 100, right? Or $12,000 a month will get you $120. I'm pulling out my calculator because now that we started.  04:14 - Danielle Famble (Host) As much as I love talking about money, math is not my.  04:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) No, we need calculators.  04:19 - Danielle Famble (Host) Math is not my ministry, so sometimes I have to just pull out a calculator.  04:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I got it, I got you. But let's just say I have that money goal on a monthly basis, right? What is it going to take for me to achieve that? And that is especially difficult, and I think this is why most voice actors it's so hard for them to set these financial goals, because our industry I mean we are entrepreneurs, I mean we have highs, we have lows.  04:45 There's no expected income coming in, which makes this so much different than my corporate job where I made a salary per year and you divide that by the amount of times I get paid, I know exactly what I'm going to get on my paycheck, right? And that takes away that uncertainty, all that risk, right? Because it's a stable kind of an income that's coming in every month and so we could count on that if we're working a job and working in corporate. But now, all of a a sudden, we're entrepreneurs and so that monthly achievable goal, or weekly or whatever you want to set it to, becomes like what I mean there's no guarantee. So what do we do? What do we do? We have that goal, how do we get there? There's the question of the day.  05:30 - Danielle Famble (Host) So you can take a look at what you're currently doing now. I think looking at where you are and then making your goal achievable within where you're currently at will help you, hopefully, get closer to that goal than if you are at making $1,000 a month and you're saying I want to make $10,000 a month next month or next year. There are things that you're going to need to do. So if you can look at where you are now and see where you are in relationship to that goal, that will help you understand the time frame that it will take, how long it will take you to hit that goal.  06:03 What else do you need to do? Do you need to study more? Do you need to have different kinds of demos? Do you need to take a look at what genres are you auditioning for? Maybe you're not going to make that kind of money doing a certain kind of genre. Maybe that money comes from a different genre that maybe you don't work in as much. So do you have the demos and the training that you need to make that amount of money? Once you start getting specific, it actually starts to add more questions so that you can figure out how to get to that financial goal that you have.  06:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I like that because it really brings in all the other elements into play. Right, because, all right, in order for me to make and I'm just giving it a number, in order for me to make $10,000 a month, right, that's four weeks, right? So how many auditions do I need to do? Right? How many times do I need to book? And you're right, absolutely Like, what kind of genres I mean, what kind of money are you making? Especially because we never know, like necessarily from job to job, what that money is. We can have a baseline, right, and we can say, well, I'd like to charge this for the job. It may make us rethink what we're charging people right?  07:14 - Danielle Famble (Host) Absolutely. That's a huge part of it too are your rates. If your rates are completely out of alignment with what your goal is, then that tells you. Maybe you need to take a look at your rates. Maybe you need to take a look at the types of jobs that you are auditioning for what you are saying yes to, because when you say yes to something, that inherently means you're saying no to something else, because you only have a certain amount of time to do what needs to get done.  07:38 That's actually something that I've had to take a look at in my own business is, if I say yes to certain things, is that actually getting me closer to my goal, or is it getting me closer to more, and more is not specific. So sometimes you're going to need to say no so that you are available for the jobs that will get you closer to your financial goals your financial income goals, if that's what your financial goals are.  08:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, the power of no, it is a thing, it is an absolute, tangible thing, the power of no.  08:09 And I think also you've got to be aware of the market, right, it's all well and good to say I want to make six figures, you know, and I'm going to charge this amount, so there's also the other side of the coin, where you're going to be, let's say, maybe pricing yourself out of the market. And so education I feel like this whole series, like we need to start off by saying educate, educate, educate, educate. It's so important because now, all of a sudden, there's market price, right, we're dealing with the dark side of synthetic voices coming on the horizon. And so what are consumers willing to pay? Right, and you know you do have to take that into account, right, and so sometimes you can be price undercut by another talent or somebody else on a roster who will do it cheaper, and it's unfortunate, but I mean that's the way the cookie crumbles, or there's got to be some sort of money analogy for that, danielle, that you might know, that's the way the dollar gets spent.  09:02 There you go, yeah, I mean, there's all these variables, danielle, and it's so intimidating, which is why I think most people don't really set those financial goals.  09:11 - Danielle Famble (Host) And also adding in negotiation. Being comfortable negotiating your rates and negotiating what a company or client is willing to pay is really important as well, and getting comfortable and competent in how to negotiate is actually a lever that you can pull as well. There are so many things that are in your control when it comes to bringing in the income for your business that just saying okay, I want to make six figures, that's all well and good. Now what can I do? What's in my control? What are the levers that I can pull? Maybe it's negotiating. Maybe it's making sure that I'm quoting industry standard rates, educating myself on what industry standard rates are, maybe going to a GVAA rate guide or looking at what is the industry charging.  09:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Marketing more yeah.  09:59 - Danielle Famble (Host) You can also say no and say hey, listen, this is below what I'm willing to accept for my time, because this is not going to get me closer to my goal. There's so many things that you can do not going to get me closer to my goal. There's so many things that you can do. Just saying this is the goal and I'm just going to continue doing what I'm doing really takes away the agency that you have in getting to this goal.  10:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know, one thing that I will say that allows me to be bolder in moving forward in my business is having and I've said this in numerous other podcasts, but I think it bears repeating is having that financial cushion. That means having money in the bank that allows me to be bold with my saying no if I need to right, maybe delving out into a different genre or getting more coaching or whatever it is, making another investment in my business so that I can move forward Again. I wish it was all like oh, this is the absolute path I must go in order to achieve this. But there's so many variables that you say and I love it because it's so positive that we have in our control to do it, and I like to really think about it like a challenge. I mean, I'm a girl who loves a challenge, right, I mean so for me. I've always said that I love voice acting and I love coaching, but I love the business I love the business of making money right.  11:13 I love trying to figure out how can I make more money and if I treat it as a challenge and I treat it like a game right, as long as I have that financial cushion right in the bank, I have some leeway. I have a little bit of play where I can actually go out on a limb and take a chance and take a risk, actually go out on a limb and take a chance and take a risk, and if that pays off for me, yes then that can be something that catapults me into the next tax bracket.  11:39 - Danielle Famble (Host) Absolutely, it's so empowering to be able to walk away and say no or to go for a different genre or whatever your goal is or your challenge, as you're saying, would be. It's so empowering to be able to back that up in your mind of saying, if this doesn't work out, I'm still okay. For me, that goes for financial savings goals. So I want to make sure that I have a certain amount of money in the bank, in savings, so that I'm not destitute. Yep, you can pay the bills.  12:05 Desperation is palpable and if you are operating from a place of, this has to work or else it may not work out as well for you. But the confidence in the back of your mind of saying, if not me, that's totally fine, I'm still okay, that's you taking the power and the agency of your future, of your financial future, your business's future. So, going from I need to make a certain amount of money to I need to have a certain amount of money so that I can feel safe and confident in being able to say no. Is it really important financial goal? That has taken me a long time to understand that it's as important, if not more important than just revenue goals.  12:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, absolutely. And you know, your strategy to get there doesn't have to always revolve around jobs that you do. It can revolve around, like for me everybody knows I've been on a health journey, right, I worked myself to the bone, to the point where I was unhealthy, right, and then that was also taking away from my product. Actually, do you know what I mean? I wasn't at my 100% best, and so for me I was like I can't stop, I can't stop, I can't stop, I want to continue. Like I had a nice financial cushion but the workaholic in me said, well, let's just keep putting money in there. But at one point it became a little bit detrimental to me, right, because it affected my health. And now I'm okay with saying you know what, I can take that hour, that maybe hour and a half, to do some self-care, because if I am healthier, I'm going to have a better product and I'm going to be able to serve my clients better, I'm going to run my business better. And so the goal goals there, you know, in strategizing are not just like okay, this is what I want to make and these are how many auditions I'm going to have to do to get there, or this is how much marketing I'm going to have to do. It also can encompass whatever it is that affects your product right, to make your product better.  13:56 I think that's an avenue we need to look at, including coaching right, including new demos, which is why I feel that that part of the strategy in your financial goals. They're hand in hand Because it's all about the product really, right. I mean, we are a company. I always tell people like, especially when I'm teaching corporate narration, I'm like look, you can't just be an information deliverer when you talk about corporate narration, because the word corporate in and of itself says we need to sell something, right? There's no other reason why companies are formed. Can you think of any reason?  14:28 that companies are formed outside of to make a profit and they have a product and a service to sell. There's no other reason. So that means that you exist to make a profit, right.  14:39 - Intro (Announcement) You exist to make a profit.  14:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Your product needs to make a profit. And if your product is not making a profit, then you need to look at improving that product. And how are you going to do that? Or how are you going to make sure that you have a good product and that you're maintaining it, but not just maintaining it, but evolving it and growing it and making it better so that it's competitive?  14:59 - Danielle Famble (Host) I appreciate you saying that, because where you were when you realized that it was time to make a change is quite literally where I am right now.  15:08 I've said to myself recently I would love to be that person who goes to the gym at four o'clock in the afternoon. Well, normally I'd be doing auditions or trying to make sure I have a session at that time, or it's during the day. I need to be in this booth making money. I must be here, because if I'm not here working towards these financial goals, then what am I doing? But I need to pour into the instrument that is, the product, and to be able to do that I need money. So I need to be able to strategize that I'm making money enough to be able to take that four o'clock hour or whatever hour and go and take a workout class or go to the gym or just go outside and get some vitamin D, because sometimes I don't do that. So that's where you can take your financial goals and make them applicable to your daily life, not just as the person that you are, but the product of your business, which is how your business makes money. It's cyclical.  16:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I mean, if we had a physical product, it would be a different story. You know what I mean, like if I was like I'm selling pens, oh, I'm selling my Nganguza pens, right? So that's a different thing. I mean, you've got physical inventory here. Here we're talking about your voice, right, and so it encompasses that's what makes it so unique.  16:25 It encompasses so many different things in order to put out a great product and those goals whether you think so or not, I mean those goals that you set, financial goals. There's so many ways to get there that don't include just how much money do I invest? It can be how much do I invest in my product to make it better so that I can ultimately charge more or ultimately get more income coming in? So I didn't want to miss out on saying how important that was in terms of strategizing and goal setting, because I didn't realize it. Do you know what I mean? I just kept thinking, oh my God, I just have to work, I have to be at the desk, I have to work, I have to work, and then I realized that ultimately, my product was suffering, and so you don't want that to happen.  17:09 So, always being on the lookout of how can I be better? How can I and for me it's always been like the challenge and how can I grow? And growing takes. Growing is scary. You know what I mean. Oh yeah, growing your business is scary. I mean, okay, all of a sudden, now I might need an assistant. Oh, that means I've got to put more money out. That's scary when I don't feel like I have control over that. Income is not steady anymore. So all of a sudden it's like well, I don't know if I can afford right, which is what a lot of students can't afford. There's only so much they've allowed in order to develop their product. But in reality, taking it all in and understanding what's involved in putting out a great product, I mean, at least you don't have a storefront, that you're leasing a building.  17:55 - Danielle Famble (Host) Yeah. And the question that you can ask yourself, instead of saying I can't afford, is how can I afford?  18:01 - Intro (Announcement) to have an assistant, because then that starts to open up a lot more questions.  18:07 - Danielle Famble (Host) How much does an assistant cost? How much time commitment would I need for this assistant? Maybe it's a part-time assistant, a certain number of hours a week, Okay. So it's going to be 20 hours a week at, let's say, $15 an hour, Okay. So now that I know it's this amount of money, how can I afford this additional amount of money? And then you reverse engineer the problem.  18:31 Yeah, I love that so if it's, how can I take off at 4 o'clock in the afternoon to go to the gym? All right, that means that I need to make sure that I'm making a certain amount of money per week or per month, however I want to view it. Per week or per month, however I want to view it, and I'll know if I'm maybe negotiating a certain rate and I hit that target. Anything else for the week is gravy, because I know that I've made my target amount of money, I've hit my goal, I know the enough number and anything else on top of that to me is pure profit, which I love profit.  19:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We love profit.  19:04 - Danielle Famble (Host) I love profit, and so I think that's really how you can look at it. Instead of saying what you cannot do, ask yourself the creative in you how can you do it?  19:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I was absolutely just going to say you know what I love about you, danielle, because you're always about what you can do right Versus I can't afford, I can't do this to grow. You're always like you're reversing it, like literally everything that we've talked about in this series is you with the positive manifestation right of how you can. Let's reverse, engineer, let's see what we, what here are our goals, here's what we can do to get there. And I absolutely love that about you and I believe that it's instrumental in your success. I think it can be instrumental in every boss's success that instead of what you can't do, what can you do and just manifest from abundance that whole mentality.  19:53 - Danielle Famble (Host) Thank you. I believe in that. We are creatives. That's what we are doing. We are actors. We are creating worlds and stories out of someone else's words, sometimes our own and we're creating something that didn't really exist before we breathe the life, the voice into it. That's what we do.  20:13 So if that is what we do in our business, how can that be that we don't do it in creating the abundance in our business? It's really important to me. When I get negative and I do often when I do get negative I want to try to get out of that by flipping to where is my power, what can I do about it? And if I need help, then that means that I need to figure out the resource to help me. If I don't know, then I need to get a coach or get someone else's perspective. But there's something that you can do, and it's probably in business. It's going to cost you some money, which is why talking about money and finances is so important, because it is the vehicle for how we get what we want in life and in business.  20:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, it is so true, and I think there's a lot of creators that may not want to believe that, like, I'm going to do it for the love of it and that's okay. I mean, I think every day, we should be doing something we love if we absolutely can, and if it can help us pay the bills, I mean, my gosh, how fortunate and how wonderful is that. And I always say how lucky am I? Am I lucky? I manifested it. Just saying, I mean, I manifested something that I love, right, and turned it into something that I can make a profit with.  21:21 And so how much luck was involved in that? Well, maybe a little bit, but there was an awful lot of hard work and there was awful lot of manifestation and saying what can I do? Right? And I believe, bosses out there, that you need to again educate yourself. Right, take that real world, look at your finances, set some goals that are realistic goals and do it working backwards, right, because it's not enough to just say I want to make a six-figure income, right. Well, okay, give me a number and then work backwards from that, right. And what are you going to have to do to get to that number? And maybe, guys, maybe it's not about how many auditions you do. Maybe you need to go outside. I mean, I hate to say that, but I don't hate to say that there's nothing wrong with going outside and getting a supplemental income while you're building your business Absolutely nothing.  22:08 - Danielle Famble (Host) Oh, for sure it can be actually one of the best things that you do for your business, because it's less work that you'll have to do in bringing in income in your business, because you've already got additional income kind of helping you out and that keeps you afloat and that buoys you.  22:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, that's your cushion, that's your cushion, that's your cushion so that it makes you confident to move forward. So go deliver Instacart. I mean. I mean, why not? I mean I've thought of all these other things that I would love to do. I mean there's all these things that I find joy in that I'm like you know what, if I ever had to change my career, I could do that. I'm always thinking. I'm always thinking, and I'm not saying I'm getting out of voice, acting at all or what I'm doing, but I'm always evolving and always thinking about what is it that's going to help me to be joyful and bring money in. It's like joy and money, and I'm not afraid or ashamed to say joy and money in the same sentence.  23:03 - Danielle Famble (Host) Oh no, making money can be quite joyful. I've also made money in a way that has not been completely joyful to me, but spending that money was a little bit more joyful. And that's how I got my joy Spending money is joyful to me.  23:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, absolutely, and making it, of course, because you got to have it to spend it Absolutely. Oh man, what a great conversation. So I believe financial goals take it work backwards right. Figure out what your goal is, what you need to do to get there, and always as Danielle has so eloquently and wonderfully demonstrated in all of these podcast series episodes that we've talked about is be positive. What can you do right and not that you can't do it because of right, no excuses, what you can do and bosses. There's no shame in strategizing and coming up with ideas outside of the box to get there and give yourself that financial cushion to push even further to those financial goals. So I love talking to you, danielle. I love it. Thank you, anne.  23:58 - Danielle Famble (Host) This is fun, you get me all charged up.  24:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Not charged up. I might go charge something now. Oh, I'm going to go manifest my next level.  24:07 - Danielle Famble (Host) Yeah, I'm going to go set some more goals, some financial goals.  24:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Manifest the next level of bossness setting some financial goals. All right, guys. Big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can network and be a boss. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Guys, have an amazing week and manifest those awesome financial goals. You guys can do it. We believe in you. All right, have a good one. Bye, guys, thanks everybody, bye.  24:33 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO boss with your host and gang Guza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at VO bosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Join us as we navigate the captivating world of character creation in voice acting with MCVO Agent Lau Lapides. The BOSSES unpack the essence of building characters across various domains—whether it's animation, commercial, corporate, or e-learning—emphasizing the crucial role of authenticity and depth. Discover how understanding a character's choices, morality, and actions can elevate your performance from mere impersonation to truly embodying the character. By thoughtfully considering the script's intent and adding your unique touch, the BOSSES aim to help you craft characters that deeply resonate with your audience. Tune in and embrace the complexities and creative challenges of character development with us, ensuring your performances are both genuine and relatable. 00:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Do you ever wish boss marketing was as fun as it was being behind the mic? Well, check out my VioBoss Blast. It's designed to automate and make your marketing simpler. You'll benefit from your very own target marketed list, tailored to meet your goals and your brand the ViBoss Blast. Find out more at VioBosscom.  00:24 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am here for the Boss Superpower Series with my lovely guest co-host, Lala Pides.  00:55 - Lau Lapides (Host) Hey Anne, so happy to be back, as always.  00:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Ah Lal, I love you. You're such a character.  01:03 - Lau Lapides (Host) I love you right back, super lady.  01:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know, speaking of characters, I have a lot of friends who do character acting a lot of really wonderful friends and they absolutely love it, they're very passionate about it. As a matter of fact, a lot of students that I talk to that want to get into voiceover. They want to be a character, they want to be in animation and I thought it's appropriate because we're characters, no matter what we do in voice acting today, and not everybody thinks of it in those terms. So I thought maybe we could concentrate on what characters we are today.  01:36 - Lau Lapides (Host) That's an interesting topic because I think that a lot of creatives think of character in a very artificial kind of sense, as almost a caricature a caricature instead of a character, a well-drawn character with depth, and dimension. So like, yeah, what is that character? How do we define that character? It's a great question.  01:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's a good question. So, Lo, how do you define character and how you need to be a character? Or do you need to be a character, or do you need to be a character in voice acting?  02:07 - Lau Lapides (Host) Well, I think the first thing I think about is from that morality standpoint of thinking about character. When we say, oh, that person has a lot of character, they build their character, they have a very strong character, they have a moral character. I always think of it as someone who is strong, someone who has a backbone, who has courage, and someone who is well-drawn, well-built, someone who has those three dimensions, who has depth, who's interesting, who has integrity. I mean thinking about all the layers that go into what character actually is. I don't necessarily think of like cartoon or animation or something that's unreal. I think of something that is actually real and dimensional. And then I go from there, I start to dive in and say, ooh, what does this building of this character from an actor's standpoint? What does that mean? How do we build a character from the ground up, taking our breakdown, taking our description and really detailing it, really adding our own unique dimension to that that becomes our character?  03:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And is it necessary that you are a character in voice, acting for every script? Are you a character?  03:19 - Lau Lapides (Host) Well, I think that only is about how you define character. If I define character as every single solitary role that I could possibly play is a character, possesses character and has character elements to it, then I would imagine yes, you're a character, whether you are a narrator an audiobook reader or whether you're a medical tech person, you're a character.  03:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, and I think that in order to really resonate, I think, with the script and resonate with the listener, you need to truly embody that character, and I think it's important that we're not trying to necessarily impersonate a character, right, it's more or less being that character in the moment, right, and I know that a lot of times when you are speaking in the moment, all the things that used to matter to you like oh, how do I sound right? Kind of flies out the window. And that's why I think it's important that we actually get ourselves in the moment, in the character, because we don't necessarily need to consider what we sound like. We need to consider who we are and what we're reacting to, what scene we're in and how we're talking to our listener.  04:34 - Lau Lapides (Host) And who we are. From an actor standpoint, whatever kind of character you're creating is determined not only by the writer's point of view, but also by the moment-to-moment experience, directorially, from your perspective, your point of view, what's your POV? So, therefore, we need to be fully present, fully engaged in the moment, to really figure out the character, build the character from the ground up and really start to ask questions about what is your character, who are they, what would they do, what would their decisions and actions be? And I like to even go and say are they like me, or is this within me to do, or do I have to create this as part of my character? I don't want to mimic, as you said, I don't want to impersonate, I don't want to be a parrot in that way, but what do I need to do to get the qualities of that character and then put it in so I can organically bring that out as part of me?  05:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) and who I am. I like how you actually brought in the fold that there's a point of view from the script writer, right, let's say, if we are voicing a commercial or, in my case, like corporate or e-learning right. In my case, like corporate or e-learning right, there's a point of view that you need to consider from the copywriter or whoever it is that is providing you with the work right, because they want you to consider their viewpoint. But then you also have to bring in your own point of view, and I think that sometimes people get confused as to the point of view. Is there just one or is there one that you're melding in with your own point of view? Is there just one or is there one that you're melding in with your own point of view in order to make your take on that a unique take that will engage the listener?  06:13 - Lau Lapides (Host) Well, you know, it's interesting, A lot of VOs who also do on-camera work hear the language of the technical crew talking about POVs when it comes to the camera shot. So I like to think of it in those terms that you know, if you're shooting one scene, it could take four hours, eight hours, 12 hours to shoot that one scene, because the crew is concerned about what are all the POVs in the shot list that we need to get. So when we think about voiceover and we think about, well, we're not on camera, but what are we doing with our voice? What are all the points of view that our voice can stylistically shift to, whether it's written in the script or not, really could take time to develop that.  06:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know. I love that. You said that because I think you're right and it's funny, because I'll talk to my students and I'll say it's a point of view that evolves, because if you have the same point of view throughout an entire script, it becomes almost like white noise and it becomes very predictable and consistent and it doesn't necessarily tell the story, because I'm constantly in this particular point of view and I'm going to talk to you like this for the next minute or two minutes or maybe even ten minutes, and I'm going to continue with this particular point of view and it starts to become really repetitive and it starts to become where repetitive and it starts to become where whew, that's exhausting to listen to, right? So I think a point of view is constantly evolving and changing along with the storyline and that's something that the actor makes, those choices right, those choices on how to evolve in a unique way that takes the listener on a journey.  07:43 - Lau Lapides (Host) Yes, and it is the very thing that you and I, as coaches, are always pushing home. Pushing home. It is precise, it is detailed, it is specific. We should never be making choices that are like whitewashed, or universal, or generic, or not making choices at all, which is what?  08:01 a lot of talent do because they want to just let happen what happens? Sure, but the truth is we're on a mission for choice making and we know we're going to attain the objective if we make the choice to go get that. If we don't make any choice, chances are we're not going to achieve that objective.  08:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, then it just becomes like a neutral, flat, kind of like where is that point of view and what makes that different than somebody reading words to me really?  08:26 - Lau Lapides (Host) So therefore we lack character? Yeah, we lack character and characterization, and characteristics, how about characteristics? So therefore, we lack character? Yeah, we lack character and characterization, right right, and characteristics, sure, how about characteristics? I like that.  08:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And moment to moment I love the moment to moment in between the periods throughout the scene Like the scene can evolve, and I think what's so cool about that is that it offers the actor such an amazing spectrum of creativity to just draw upon in order to make that read come to life.  08:53 And it's different for all of us. I think there's, I think, the point of view, that's the intention of the script, that makes sense for the words that are on the page, and then there's what you bring to it moment to moment. It evolves over time, it may change and shift and you may not know what those scenes are specifically Like. We don't always get the storyboard, we don't get the video, we don't know what the music or any of those things are going to be, but we have our own creativity, we have our own imagination, we have an understanding of who we're voicing this for and the context of the words that are on the page, and then it's up to us to interpret them in a logical way that would make sense to accomplish what the client wants from us.  09:35 - Lau Lapides (Host) Exactly, that's exactly it.  09:37 And I think that if you don't do that work, if you don't do the homework or the pre-work, as we call it, the pre-work if you don't do that prep, pre-work, you're really messing out a lot, because you want to be free, that when you're doing the gig whatever that gig is you want to be free to really play and enjoy the character and say, okay, I've created a framework, I have a little blueprint for myself, I can see the visual in my head, I have a sense of where they're going and make some decisions, so that when I veer off and I go outside of the box, I know that I'm breaking my own rules, which is what I want to be doing as a creative.  10:13 I want to set my rules, I want to see if that works, and then I want to break the rules and that might work even better. And so those characters are like, no matter how rule-oriented they are, they're always breaking rules in certain ways as well. And really finding out like, where's the rebel in the character? Maybe she's been saying lines just like this, she's been delivering just like this, and then maybe on this one she changes it. She changes it for a reason to show that she is awake and aware of what the problem is in the community, right. So I'm really developing a character and characterizations that then become relatable and about empathy, that an audience can listen to and go ooh, I do that. Ooh, that's just like me.  10:58 Wow, and all of a sudden they're not thinking of character. They wouldn't even use that word.  11:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They'd say that's a person that's like my sister right, and you know what A lot of times I'll tell people to do. Maybe for the second take right is maybe change your character a little bit, One that still makes sense, but change your character or change the scenario.  11:16 - Intro (Announcement) Change the scene.  11:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Like maybe you're in a hurry or maybe you're in a different place, Maybe you're outside, or maybe you're inside in an office and maybe the person you're talking to right has a different reaction or has got different issues with what you're saying. Or maybe they've got a backstory that you're responding to and that backstory changes, and so you're responding in a slightly different way, but one that still makes sense, right for the words on the page. Right.  11:44 And that can give you a really great second take, more so than oh, that second take just has to sound different, right? So if you can push I'm going to say if you can push your creative mind to always take in the scene creating that character and moving that character through the scene, and then do a take two right, create a different scene, create a slightly different character, one that still makes sense and Law, I'm going to ask you, I'm going to have you probably reinforce what I always tell people Does it matter that we don't have the storyboard? Does it matter that our story is correct from the final version of the video or whatever it is that we're creating, or the commercial? I think?  12:25 - Lau Lapides (Host) that in every single thing we do, Anne, I think that in every single thing we do, Anne, there's blind, there's stuff behind walls that we don't see and we're not privy to and we don't know, and that's okay. That's where us, as creatives, come in and say I can create different interpretations, I can create different scenarios. And then, as they give me the feedback or direct me, or maybe they just say hey, you gave me three, they're fabulous, we like it, we're done.  12:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know what I mean. And let me ask you another question, which I know a lot of times people will complain about this. They'll say well, why do they write it this way, right? And then we don't know what it means. I have no idea what it means, but yet they want us to sound like we're talking to our friend, or they want us to what they really want. Maybe they're not telling you for a very good reason, right? Maybe they're not giving you that storyboard for a good reason because they want to hear your creative, artistic interpretation or impression of it.  13:28 - Lau Lapides (Host) Right. Typically, I would say don't waste too much time or energy wondering why it was created this way, why it was crafted this way it was. Now let's see what we can do with it. And you know a lot of directors, a lot of young and up-and-coming directors I've noticed stylistically are very different than years gone by. They're doing a lot more impromptu, a lot more improv, a lot more stuff like that. So sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes you're going to have the license and the leisure that you're working with someone who says is that natural for you or do you need to change something there? Right? And that actually happens a lot more than we think, where, in essence, we're editing the script on the spot when we're doing a job because we're coming up with something that they didn't realize works better.  14:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, absolutely Absolutely, and a lot of times it can spur them into new creative avenues as well, to say, well, I didn't think about it like that, but you know what I really like your take on that, and so how wonderful is that? It's wonderful. I often think that we're given this creative challenge and we should embrace that challenge and not be so determined to get in 100 auditions a day in our studio where we're just going and I know what it should sound like. I really feel as though we don't take enough time and sometimes even I have to remind myself right in a busy day. We're always so busy that I need to really sit back and let's think and let's kind of enjoy the process, let's enjoy the creativity, let's enjoy and embrace the challenge of creating a character and really figuring out and it's not easy Law, is it easy?  15:02 - Lau Lapides (Host) No, I mean human relations. Right, human behavior is never easy because you're always dealing with true, authentic interface with another person, like we are doing a reasonable facsimile of real life. That's what we're doing. It's not real life, we're in a booth under a light, but in essence we're doing that reasonable facsimile of it and we have to understand that your character is capable of anything. When someone says, oh, I don't know why she's saying that she would never say that, I say, oh, I don't know why she's saying that she would never say that.  15:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I said, yes, she would. Yes, she could If the situation were appropriate. Yeah, of course she could. If you want me to be conversational, you know, and I feel like that word is now got it's a dirty word now, but I just want to say Well, it's exhausted.  15:45 - Lau Lapides (Host) It is exhausted, they use it a lot and conversational.  15:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) there's so many different ways to be conversational. I mean law. I have conversations every day, like every single day of my life. We have conversations.  15:54 So, it's a fact of life that we have conversations. Now, when somebody gives me the direction that they want it to be, conversational, there's so many different, like 360 degrees of conversational. It could be casual, it could be authoritative, the conversation could be authoritative, the conversation could be shifting, and again along with the character, right. And so I think that conversational is just meant to be. Well, let's not make it sound announcery, right? So what's the other word for it? But honestly, I engage every day with other people and with things and with circumstances and so-.  16:25 - Lau Lapides (Host) That's your practice. That's your practice is to really do it right, and I can tell you, one of the biggest mistakes that actors make, whatever they're doing, is to say how do I sound, do I?  16:35 sound real, Do I sound? And I said, listen, if I came into this coaching session, I said with Joe. I said, coming in, I want to sound real with Joe, I want to coach Joe and I want to sound real. Wouldn't you think I'm crazy? And he'd say I think that was crazy. I'd say, well, that's what you're doing right now. You're doing that right now with a real person or a real entity, a character that's not coming in and saying I want to feel real, I want to look real, I want to sound real. They're saying no, I want to get a point across to you. I want to help you with something, I want to do something with you.  17:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I'm going to say that, well, I wouldn't say that right in a normal situation. But the deal is, is that that's not you as an actor? It is your job to make the words on the page sound logical and sound like they would be something you would say. That is your job as an actor. Right? There's no excuse. What do you mean? You would never say that it doesn't matter. We're not asking if you would ever say that In this particular instance, you need to act as though that is a perfectly natural thing to say and a perfectly understandable, logical, emphatically lovely thing for you to say.  17:39 - Lau Lapides (Host) Yeah, you're an actor, act right. But I mean, how do you know that? Do you know that? For a fact Like, why limit your potential? Why put caps on your creativity? Why not say, okay, the craziest thing I could possibly do, I'll think about doing it Now. Maybe if the circumstance and context were right for that, you would do it. Oh gosh, yeah, but chances are, you may never know right.  18:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And what I always am arguing with people about is saying well, yes, you absolutely could say that, as long as you understand what the story is leading up to it. Right Again, you picked that moment before. What is that conversation you're having? What's happening before? Tell me about who you're talking to and what is their pain point. What is their problem? What are they reacting to? Or why are you talking to them with the first words of the sentence? Why are you saying that to them? There has to be a reason. They said something to you, there was an action that happened and you are reacting to it.  18:35 It doesn't mean that your first words out of your mouth may be the exact first words in that, but you can lead into it and you can say well, actually, yes, here's your issue, and I want to tell you about first word coming now, right? So what happens is the first word coming now doesn't just pop out of the air, like I don't think law when we get together, I don't just go welcome to module one or, once upon a time, law. No, we've evolved into a conversation. There's been history. You know I have empathy to. Right now, you're in a hurry, right? So I want to make sure I'm not wasting your time, and so there's a backstory that you have to develop.  19:13 You have to develop it. And I don't care what script, any script, any script. Even if you're reading about a pharmaceutical medicine and the effects that it has, do you know what I mean? Like, I want you to be like telling the person that's reading the back of the label, that thinks that they might have 10 of those symptoms and making them feel better about it, right? So there's a story there. Make that story make sense, okay.  19:36 - Lau Lapides (Host) So the listener says, great, all well and good, but what if I haven't experienced any of this, I haven't gone through it, I don't have the context for it. I say, well, if you can surmise a bottom line for your character, what is happening? Say, the character is jumping out of a plane right now, that's what your characters do, but I've never jumped out of a plane. I don't know what that is. Yes, but you've taken extreme risks and you know what fear is and you know what that moment is. Even just building a business is very risky and fear-based. Call upon that moment in you.  20:06 That's real. It's a substitution method that we have to use, because there's a lot of things in scripts we haven't experienced or industries we're not in. But we have to connect it with very real reservoir of emotion so that the character doesn't become one-dimensional or plastic. It is real. You're fooling us, you're tricking us, what they call in ancient Greek theater you're a hypocrite with a why meaning. You're able to mimic a feeling, an emotion that is very, very real for you because it's coming from you, even though you didn't have the actual experience. And that's what building your character is really all about is really taking from your life, your real history, your real experiences, and matching it up with the characters in her life, the characters' experience, even though they may be different.  20:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I agree and I'll tell you what. And again I stress that, no matter what you're looking at, even if it's like a telephony script like thank you for calling Rite Aid, right, yeah, why are you saying that, right? Obviously somebody's called you on the phone and they literally need to check on their prescription. They're probably frustrated because maybe the text came through and it's not ready yet, and so they're calling Rite Aid and they're frustrated.  21:19 Right Now I'm building empathy, right. I'm building empathy for the person who's going to be on the other end of the line from my message that says thank you for calling Rite Aid, right. So I understand that they are busy. I understand that they're frustrated, so I'm going to approach that with a character that's going to make them feel at ease or feel better, and so I've developed this story, I've developed my character and maybe I'll be bright, but I'm not going to be overly bright so that they get really annoyed at that. And it's funny, because I do telephony, I have no ego. Look, I get paid to do it. I do telephony, I do corporate, I do explainers, I do e-learning, I do commercial.  21:58 I mean I do a lot more of the non-broadcast Of course, but the funny thing is is that for every single script I am talking to someone, I am a character. I have a couple of different characters that I have worked on for my telephony scripts and, depending on the on-hold messages which, by the way, lollapiedes, on-hold messages are nothing more than 15 to 20 second commercials. Did you know?  22:22 - Intro (Announcement) Right and I actually have.  22:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) the majority of my customers ask me to be very relatable and not like that. Hey, did you know 99.9% of people do this and for $9.95, we have today's special deal. No, they want me to be real and so I have to create that character that is engaging with someone who's super frustrated, that doesn't want to be on hold, that is going customer service customer service and you know what.  22:53 - Lau Lapides (Host) If anyone has hosted a party or hosted a dinner in their home or in their apartment, you know what it's like to host. You know what it's like to welcome people into your space and make them comfortable, and that's what they're asking you for in that situation.  23:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) How do you say thank you for calling and mean it right? Everybody in the world wants to go. Thank you for calling right, hello, no, I want to hear it as if you really are thankful, that you're really thankful that they called Right and so you've got to really dig deep for that. I'm just saying dig deep for that telephony because you are a character, no matter what.  23:31 - Lau Lapides (Host) We could talk about this forever. Character is in everything, it's everywhere, and everything it's all of life.  23:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah Right, it's a wonderful conversation. I think we should have part two of the series.  23:41 - Lau Lapides (Host) I was just thinking that Part two, part two for sure.  23:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So yeah, bosses, be a character. You are characters. Be a character for everything that you do in voiceover, and you can be a character and find out more about IPDTL, who is our sponsor, going to give them a great big old shout out. Find out more about IPDTL at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we will see you, bosses, next week. Bye, see you next time.  24:06 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at VOBosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.  24:37 - Lau Lapides (Host) Absolutely. You know what I mean.  24:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Otherwise.  24:38 - Lau Lapides (Host) I wouldn't. I wouldn't do it so quickly. Hang on one second. Do you hear that. What is that? I don't know. Okay, maybe it was something outside. Jerry, okay, I'm podcasting, I'll be. Was something outside Jerry?  25:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Okay, I'm podcasting. I'll be out in a few minutes. Okay, is Jerry out there? Yes, I think that's my husband being loud. Well, jeremy's out here.  25:10 - Lau Lapides (Host) So it was one of our husbands. Oh, was it one of our husbands For.  25:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) God's sake.  25:14 - Lau Lapides (Host) Jerry's over there and Jeremy's over here.  25:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Tell Jeremy to be quiet.  25:20 - Lau Lapides (Host) Annie says be, he's over here, tell Jeremy to be quiet. And he says be quiet, shut the fuck up. What are you doing, jesus Christ? Oh my God, that's so funny. I can't even close these doors.  25:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh my God, but that's so funny because normally I don't hear anything, but I couldn't tell if it was Jeremy, if it was outside of yours or mine. But my, my husband just opened the door and I was like, what the heck Like so well, we did, we did the show. You want to do an outro? I mean, we did this is going to be well, just FYI, uh, this is going to be good for you, james. This'll be like an outtake. So, by the way, bosses, when you're, when you've got people running, this is why studios still have signs that say shh, recording, because even though we have great studios and I've, I've got, you know, acoustic panels and everything, if somebody's right outside this door and they're screaming or they're being loud, we're gonna be able to hear it. Yep, so, anyways, back to our back to our, uh, our discussion. Okay, so pick up.   

Discover indispensable strategies for maintaining an engaging online presence, even when social media fatigue sets in. From MySpace and Facebook's early days to today's multifaceted platforms, Anne and Tom explore how social media has transformed into a cornerstone for business promotion. Learn to create content that captivates both human audiences and social media algorithms, and understand how mastering these algorithms can elevate your marketing game. Gain insights on how social media plays a crucial role in purchasing decisions and the etiquette voice actors must follow. The BOSSes share essential tips on how potential clients vet companies and individuals through their social media presence. Experience the power of video content and the importance of authenticity in connecting with your audience. Learn why the algorithm favors video and how being genuine can build trust and likability among your followers. Anne. andTom address the continuous challenges in voice acting, emphasizing the need for consistency, strategic planning, and adapting to industry trends. 00:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, how's it going? Bosses Anne Genguza here. Elevate your voiceover game with our VIPeeps membership. With VIP membership, you can access our extensive library of over 350 hours of pre-recorded workshops. Whether you're interested in commercials, promos, character animation, audiobooks, video games, corporate narration, audio description or dubbing, our workshops cover it all. Plus, as a VIPeeps member, you'll enjoy a 15% discount on current workshops and complimentary free monthly workshops to further develop your skills. Join VIPeeps today at vopeepscom and take your voiceover career to new heights.  00:44 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  01:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Real Boss Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm delighted to bring back Real Boss Tom Dheere to the show.  01:15 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Hello, hey, , hello, hello, hello.  01:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) How are you?  01:19 - Tom Dheere (Guest) I'm good, how are?  01:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) you, I'm good, tom. I have to apologize for being late because I was creating content for my social media. And it's still a thing you would think, after all these years, tom, both you and I have been active on social media, it would get easier, like maybe quicker, but it just doesn't. I mean, it is time consuming. I think we should talk about it, because real bosses need to get out there on social media and present themselves as real bosses.  01:47 - Tom Dheere (Guest) This is also one of the questions that's most asked of me, as the video strategist is talking about how to come up with an effective social media presence. So, yeah, I think this is one that a lot of people are going to want to tune in for.  01:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Sure, social media has just well, it's just blown up, obviously I mean, but back in the day, back in the day when I first got into voiceover, there wasn't much social media out there. Facebook was just now. I'm dating myself, right, facebook was just evolving.  02:14 I think I've been part of Facebook since its evolution which was in gosh the early 2000s right, and so Facebook was the first social media and then other ones popped up after that and they've just exploded and then I think they kind of went beyond where people are now like, possibly social media tired. Oh God, yes, I have social media fatigue, social media fatigue, but yet there's still very much a necessity for running our businesses and advertising our businesses.  02:47 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Yes, I think I joined Facebook in 2007. And before that I had a MySpace account which I was active on. If you remember MySpace.  02:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I do.  02:56 - Tom Dheere (Guest) And there was a little bit of voiceover stuff going on on MySpace. And then Facebook came and the interface was just, you know, superior, so everybody migrated. Myspace still exists, but it doesn't even look remotely what it used to look like or function Now. It's only for musicians or something like that.  03:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Facebook was great in the beginning. Remember.  03:11 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Yeah, back in. It was just like what are you doing? You know, you just post what you're doing. This is what I had for lunch.  03:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yep exactly. Nobody still cares what I had for lunch.  03:23 - Tom Dheere (Guest) I don't care what I had for lunch.  03:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, I do, because now I'm into health and so sometimes people want to know what I mean. There you go.  03:31 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Right, okay, I think that's the first thing to talk about is like why should you post anything on social media as a voice actor? Right, and it's evolved. When I post on social media and also here's, the thing with you and I, anne, is that we're both full-time voice actors who are always marketing, looking for clients, voiceover clients, but we're also coaches, thought leaders, presenters, guests on podcasts, you know, and doing things like this. So we are also on social media looking for students as well Students, listeners, followers.  04:09 Students, listeners, fans. You know connections of fellow voice actors, of aspiring voice actors, voice actors in all parts of their journey because we can help them with all of our products and services. So you and I have like a dual agenda when we are on social media.  04:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We have a broad audience. We have a broad audience that we want to reach.  04:24 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Right. So if you're one of the VO bosses who's watching, who is most likely not a coach, not a demo producer, not a thought leader, not a podcast host, you're just like what do I do?  04:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, if you're a boss, you're always a thought leader.  04:35 - Tom Dheere (Guest) That's what I like to think, Ooh, I gleefully stand corrected. Yes, I like to think that.  04:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, I mean that's fantastic Because to be a thought leader, let's create content around that.  04:45 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Yes, okay, so that's what I wanted to get to is like why are you on social media, who are you talking to and what do you have to say? So, in its broadest terms, I've learned that to be effective on social media as a voice actor is to feed the humans and the robots.  05:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I like that. Feed the humans and the robots Absolutely yeah, just similar strategy for anything digital these days, right.  05:12 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Right, it's always been true, but now, just as my understanding of marketing in general and social media marketing in particular, and all the platforms, I tell all of my students your job is to feed the algorithms.  05:23 Feed the algorithms of search engine optimization Google, bing, yahoo to increase your page ranking. Feed the algorithms of online casting sites like Voicescom, voice123, badalgo, so on and so forth, but also feed the algorithms of social media. Figure out what those robots like to eat and feed it to them, and also understand that different social media platform algorithms, because this is what we're really talking about. Different algorithms reward you for different behavior. Yes, absolutely. Instagram is primarily photos.  05:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, and video now, and video now.  05:57 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Well, that's the next thing is that, like Facebook used to be for typing, twitter used to be just for words. Back then, it was 140 characters.  06:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh my gosh, remember that when we were restricted.  06:08 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Yeah you for typing. Twitter used to be just for words. Back then it was 140 characters. Oh my gosh, remember that when we were restricted. Yeah, you're restricted to 140. Then it went to 280 and it may be unlimited. Instagram is just for pictures, youtube is just for videos, but now all of them are competing with each other so much that all the platforms are super watered down because they're trying to take users away from other social media platforms. So, on all the social media platforms, you can write stuff down, except for YouTube, but you can post photos, you can post videos, you know, and you're encouraged to do all of those things. So that's why it can get really confusing. But when the coders first made all of those platforms, they had one thrust in mind.  06:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You're right, they had specific. Yeah, all of those platforms, they had one thrust in mind. You're right, they had specific. Yeah, twitter was the short post. Yeah, absolutely, youtube was always the video, instagram was the photo, and they all had, like, their purpose.  06:52 But, you're right, now that they're competing with one another, they're starting to kind of have all these different capabilities, and now the amount of content out there is insane. And so, as bosses, you need to be able to stand out right and kind of cut through the chaos, and I think there's two things to be really aware of. Number one is your purpose, right, your purpose on social media, and especially if you want to get work right on social media versus use it as a social platform, remember that there was a personal and a business page for Facebook, and you could do the same thing for a personal and a business page for Facebook, and you could do the same thing for, like, instagram and all of the other platforms. You can have a business page and a personal page. But I think, with the whole authenticity, be real, real bosses, with that kind of evolving over the progression of social media, now you want to make sure that you are authentic and being who you are and not being selly because now people are like, no, don't sell to me Right right.  07:50 - Tom Dheere (Guest) A video that we did not too long ago was about branding, and I think I talked about in that video that voice actors can be grouped into two categories public voice actors and private voice actors. The public voice actors are the audio book narrators, the video game narrators, the cartoon narrators, because those are the ones that when someone listens to your audio book, plays your video game, watches your cartoon, you know who the voice actor is in that.  08:15 Everybody else is a private voice actor and people want to search you and everybody else is private, voice actor, e-learning explainer, corporate. When you narrate that content, the only people that are going corporate when you narrate that content, the only people that are going to know who is voicing that content is the producers of the content. The consumer of the content, the employee or the student, have no idea that Anne or Tom or anybody else narrated that content. So why do I bring this up? Think about that as it applies to social media. If you are an audiobook narrator, if you're a video game narrator, if you're a cartoon narrator, you've got a lot more tools in your tool belt to effectively use social media, because you're not just trying to connect with voice seekers, like all voice actors are in all genres You're also, if you're an audiobook narrator, you're trying to connect with authors.  09:01 You're trying to connect with rights holders. You're trying to connect with listeners. If you're trying to connect with authors, you're trying to connect with rights holders. You're trying to connect with listeners. If you're a video game narrator on social media, you're trying to connect with the people who play the video games and can become a fan of the characters that you portray, same with the cartoon voice actors.  09:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And with that it's dual purpose. Right, because you, as the voice actor, are not only voicing, but you're also marketing for the company. Right, marketing for the.  09:28 - Tom Dheere (Guest) And there's a little more responsibility with that, because when you are marketing on social media and saying, hey, I was the voice of this character in Halo or Fallout or Arkham Asylum or in this Cartoon Network show, you are representing that company. So you need to be very, very careful how you comport yourself, because you don't want to do anything to damage the reputation of the product, service company, stockholder, shareholder or whatever.  09:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, that's actually really good advice, no matter what you do, because, again, you think about even if you're voicing e-learning or corporate, but yet you might be on social media bashing the script or something and saying how poorly written it was or how you're annoyed at your client, and so it's always a good idea to just serve it up with a little bit of professionalism, because you don't know how many eyeballs are on Right.  10:18 A lot of times it's really hard to tell who's watching, who's looking, and a lot of times people aren't commenting either. There's so many things that I scroll through on a day to day basis on social media that I read and I just don't comment on. I don't even comment, I don't like it, I don't react. But yet I've formulated opinions about certain people depending on the post, and if I thought, oh, that is a little bit harsh or oh, I'm not so sure, I'd want to work with that person, and so I've made my judgments based on the post. And gosh, this has just been preaching to the choir, but we've been saying that for years. Is you have to be aware of what you post? I mean, it has an effect.  10:58 - Tom Dheere (Guest) I'm sure that you have a list in your head of fellow voice actors who you've observed on social media that you're like oh, I love what they have to say. They're so thoughtful and so smart and so funny and so insightful. I would just love to come up with an excuse to work with that person based on their social media presence. And then the other side of the coin.  11:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) In reality, I remember those a whole lot more sometimes.  11:15 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Do you know what I mean Because?  11:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) the ones who are not presenting well on social media are the ones that are like, oh, watch out, watch out for that one.  11:23 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Yeah, and that's the thing is like we all have a little list in our head of the people voice actors that we see on social media and, based on how they're comporting themselves, it's like I will never work with that person, either as a coach or as a fellow voice actor maybe as a coach to maybe try to help them see the error of their ways with how they are presenting themselves on social media.  11:42 But it's just like it's very easy to behave yourself out of the voiceover industry based on your social media content. You and I have seen it happen multiple times where people implode on social media, and it could be for any of a number of reasons, and that's just a peer-to-peer thing. I mean. What our bosses want to know is about voice seekers who are navigating social media. I will say this is that the vast majority of voice seekers are not paying any attention to anything that any of us are doing on social media. Why? Because they're too busy making their own social media content in hopes that they can get clients to give them money to make their content their explainer videos or e-learning modules or audio books.  12:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Unless of course.  12:30 I'm going to say there might be that exception when, when you get somebody who finds you on the Web, right, you've been referred. And then they go to your Web site, they see who you are and you've got your social media links there, right, they've listened to your demos, they like you. Or even if you're reaching out to them on email and you've got your social media links on your email. I would suspect. I mean, I know I've done it with certain brands that I found interest in. I will go to their social media just to check it out. I don't investigate, unless, of course, it's.  12:59 I don't know, maybe it's a product that I want to buy, but I'm not going to go crazy in depth, but I will take a quick look at oh, there's a YouTube channel. Let's see what they've got there. Maybe they've got other products, or maybe they have like a help section or they have something, a tutorial, and so I will kind of breeze through the social media to see if it's something that I want to follow. Because I'll tell you what the way I'm making my purchase decisions these days is really a lot online, through influencers, through following on social media, through SMS text messages. That's a lot of the communication for people saying here I've got a product, are you interested?  13:39 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Right. You've made an excellent point, which is that if they do, and when they do, check you out on social media, which is usually related to, you've done your marketing you have social media links on your website and then they give it a click. They're vetting you. And you know what? In my experience, when they are vetting you, they're looking to see and you said this if you're a client, basher they're looking to see if you're an.  14:03 NDA violator. You'd be shocked at how many voice actors implode on social media because they're posting videos of their auditions. This is the cardinal sin of so many people.  14:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) If you take nothing else away from this podcast, that is yeah that is the cardinal sin.  14:23 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Assume that every audition that you do is under an NDA. Always do that.  14:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Audition and client. Like don't even speak a client name until you've got something that's out there published and you've got permission, that's all. I say All that humble bragging I mean I think that's fine, but it's great when you've got the permission to do so.  14:41 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Yeah. So what I always tell my students is that if you want to record yourself doing auditions to have social media content, do it Great, Go for it. Then you wait, Do it Great, Go for it. Then you wait. You wait until the project's been cast, whether it's you or somebody else and wait until the finished product is posted online. It's front-facing, whether it's you or not. Once you've cleared those two hurdles it being cast and it being posted then you can post it.  15:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But even then— but honestly, why not? Just write your own script.  15:12 - Tom Dheere (Guest) I'm just saying yeah, if you want to show off.  15:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I mean write your own script. There's so many tools out there. Tom and I think we had an episode. Yes, yeah, there's so many script libraries out there.  15:23 - Tom Dheere (Guest) What tool could I use to write a script these?  15:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) days, or where could I find a script? There's tons of stuff out there. I mean honestly. There's Scripps, libraries everywhere and, as a matter of fact, there's tons of finished products and commercials out there already in reality, and you could just rewrite one of those.  15:38 - Tom Dheere (Guest) You know what else you could do. Anne is like. I've seen a lot of voice actors over the years who will find a company and they'll look at their content online and listen to the voice actor and the voice actor is awful and what they'll do is they'll re-record it and send it to them and say compare the difference. Wouldn't you rather work with me? If you want to find something that's on social media and the voice acting is not great, you could record yourself doing a better job. You got to be careful about that because you may insult the client because they didn't make good business choices and you may insult the voice actor who did the job.  16:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, don't try to get the work by insulting. That's the biggest thing.  16:14 And I always say that you know to my students when they're quick to say the copy is not correct and so I'll just record it the correct way. And I'm like, be careful of that, because usually that copy has been through rounds and rounds of approvals and if you just come up and say, oh, you made a mistake like nobody wants to hear that they've made a mistake, especially if it's gone through multiple approvals right, so you're better off. I would say, subtly communicating with your client, like, hey, I recorded this extra take just in case that's what you meant for the script and give that to them. Don't charge them for it.  16:43 Give that to them, and then you'll be the hero, you'll be the savior of the day, and that is honestly they'll be like thank you, anne. I can't believe it got through all of these people right. Or I can't believe I made that mistake and forgot the S on the end of that word or whatever it is. You know what I mean. Nobody wants to be finger pointed at and said well, you just did a stupid thing and you made a mistake, Right.  17:02 - Tom Dheere (Guest) So I do that all the time. I have a lot of European clients, yeah, and it's a lot of translated scripts, because often I'm asked to do an explainer video that's already been produced in French or Italian or whatever. And they say here's the updated script.  17:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But I have so many clients now who say Tom, make whatever changes you need to make in the script Exactly, which is lovely, but if you, don't have that permission structure with a relatively new client, give them alts.  17:26 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Oh, yeah, yeah, give them alts, just give them alts All day long. Give them alts all day opportunity and don't charge them for it.  17:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I never charge them for that To me that's nickel and diming and that's not the professionalism I want to show my client.  17:37 - Tom Dheere (Guest) So, on social media, obviously avoid insulting anyone on any level, but one of the most important things to do to try to put yourself out there as a voice actor on social media is to demonstrate value and progress. What is your value as a voice actor? How can you demonstrate that on social media? What progress have you made as a voice actor? How can you demonstrate on that social media? I'm now going to contradict myself, anne. Oh, okay, the most important thing is just be a human. Yes, be a good human, hanging out with good humans, collecting good humans, sharing good human stuff with good humans. That's more important than any explainer video that you could post.  18:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, it doesn't have to be work-related.  18:14 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Exactly A lot of times, when you're posting content about voiceover accomplishments, it comes out as very braggadocious, yes, and self-aggrandizing.  18:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, and, yeah, I think, if you just showcased your personality, showcase who you are and bring some. I'm going to say these days, a lot of social media is either educational or entertainment-based, right? So why do I watch videos? Right? And videos, of course, I mean. This is why we're recording in video, tom, because video seems to be the media of choice.  18:43 - Tom Dheere (Guest) The algorithm rewards it the most.  18:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, in order to cut through the chaos. So of course, there's video. So, guys, you got to get brave and I'll tell you what. I've been making videos for many years and it's not something that you can do quickly. It does take some thought, some strategy and some practice to get good at it. But if you're authentic, right, and you're showcasing and you're trying to really bring value to the people who are watching, that's going to come through, and so it makes it, in a way, easy. You don't have to be like, oh, I do voiceover or even demonstrate, Because if you're just talking into the camera and you're being authentic and real, guess what? Guess what 90% of the casting specs are written to hello real conversational authentic and allow yourself to come through.  19:27 allow that and it's interesting because I always say for my students, like the last layer to put on top of your voiceover script or your audition is the point of view, is your emotion right? And that is what. When we're talking to one another, gosh, we bring that out in spades, but yet somehow, when there's words in front of us that aren't our own right, it's very difficult to figure out what point of view, or we can't get past the read of it to even showcase right the point of view. And so when you're out there on social media, connect to people with your heart, connect to people with your authenticity, and people hire people they know like and trust. Isn't that like 101, like marketing 101? People hire people that they know like and trust. So have them get to know you on social media have them get to like you on social media and have them trust you on social media.  20:12 All the get to like you on social media and have them trust you on social media All the three things.  20:16 - Tom Dheere (Guest) My most powerful social media tool that I've had for 20 years is blogging, Blogging, putting it on your website and then getting it out there on social media and the specific tool within my blog is a video.  20:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) A video and a blog, I think.  20:33 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Video. Oh God, the combination is it's a synergistic combination, but the tool within the blog that I would put on social media. That was a big part of getting me to where I am today, as both a voice actor and the video strategist was talking about all the ways that I screwed up.  20:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I had a tip of the week.  20:52 - Tom Dheere (Guest) For like almost 15 years. I had a tip of the week in all of my blogs, which is this is the mistake that I made last week as a voice actor. This is what I learned. And I'm going to pass along that lesson to you, so you do not make that mistake. Before that, all of it was just self-aggrandizing. Look at me, look at me, look at me. And nobody read my blog Once I started talking about my vulnerability and my mistakes and my humanity.  21:15 My social media presence got a lot stronger. I was connecting with a lot more people. I got a lot more readers and subscribers. So it's always made a difference because social media, it's social media. They use that word for a reason.  21:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And it's so interesting because you want to present yourself in a certain way on social media or it's always been like oh, you know the whole filter thing, right. So you talk about the filters, especially for like women, and people are like okay, I'm showing my face, I've got photos, I've got video now and here's a filter. And I think that people are just again, they can see through the filters and they really want that authenticity.  21:53 And for me, as much as I want to say I want to look great on camera a lot of times if I sit here and say to you well, my gosh, you know what, I've got these wrinkles, or I've got some sort of physical like I may have just lost a bunch of weight, but I'll tell you what I've got loose skin now. So I'm really working hard, right, so that I can feel better, get better. And so if, by admitting that and the vulnerability of how I still feel, like, oh, I want to look perfect, but I'm certainly not, and I tell people about that, that's what's going to connect people with me, to want to follow me, is that okay? So she's not that perfect looking filtered face or body or gosh, I have so many flaws. And I think if I say my flaws, that's what makes people say, oh, identify, I've got those flaws too. So I feel like if she can feel confident, then I can.  22:44 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Right, right. If there's one thing I've learned over the past few years, is that voice acting it doesn't get any easier.  22:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) No, it doesn't, it just doesn't.  22:54 - Tom Dheere (Guest) There's just different and new types of hard. So Anne and I, who are much farther along in our voiceover journey than many of our bosses, we have our own struggles.  23:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We just have different sets of struggles.  23:06 - Tom Dheere (Guest) You're having struggles as bosses when it comes to getting training, getting a demo, building a website, setting up the home recording studio.  23:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Figuring out what to post on social media.  23:15 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Figuring out what to post on social media and you recording studio, figuring out what to post on social media, figuring out what to post on social media. And you know, anne and I have checked off those boxes years ago, but you know what. We still need new microphones, we need to replace cables, we need to upgrade our dogs, we still need to record content, we still need to follow industry trends to make sure our performance is relevant to what current casting is calling for.  23:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And we need to evolve with social media because that is honestly how we get eyes on our business, that's how we market. And, tom, if I had a nickel, for the amount of times I consulted with somebody that said, how do I get work? I mean, this is what you do, too right? How do I get?  23:51 work in voiceover. Well, you can have the best voice in the world, but if nobody knows about it, they can't hire you. I say that over and over again, and so how are they going to see you, how are they going to hear you? Right?  24:02 You've got to advertise, and advertising is more than just. Of course, you can do the mining on LinkedIn and get yourself some contacts and do some cold calling. You can even do some direct mail marketing. But I'll tell you what. As I just mentioned, boss has a great product for that, a Boss Plus. But you've got to make sure that these days, you are really tailoring it to your audience. You have to tailor it because there's just so much information and even email now it's harder and harder to get through somebody's inbox, and so you've got to be very strategy conscious when you are creating those emails. You have to know who your audience is. You have to know how to talk to them, just like you do on social media.  24:39 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Yeah, To be great is to be consistently good, and you can't just do the occasional blast on social media, get bored, tired, scared or busy and then just wander off and then go back. Because here's another thing the algorithms of social media need to be fed consistently, you know, and not all of your content is going to be top notch viral content. It's just not going to be what the algorithm recognizes. Consistency as a result of persistency on your part. It is not a sprint, it is a marathon.  25:13 So to be consistently posting on social media, whether it's photos or videos or blogs or other content. You have to be consistent. Come up with a long-term strategy. Come up with a schedule. There's so many content schedulers out there. There's so many AI-related tools out there to help you come up with ideas for your social media content, Create your social media content Schedule and post your social media content. It takes thought. It takes work.  25:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It takes time and it's not easy.  25:42 - Tom Dheere (Guest) No, Anne and I were talking about this before we started recording. It's a constant struggle to come up with new interesting content, assemble the content, edit the content and then schedule the content. And then the second you click that publish or schedule, it's like, okay, what's the next thing I got to do? Amen.  25:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean amen Again. Like I keep bringing this up, like if I have people that sign up for my free consults and they say you know what? I've got a great demo, but I can't get work, there's two things right Either it's your performance and your auditions, or it's you haven't marketed yourself enough. And again, I can guarantee more than half the time it's going to be the fact that you didn't market yourself enough. You have to market yourself, like insanely, and these days, to market yourself, social media is a huge part of that picture. It just is.  26:28 And so what do you do when you're just a voice talent, right? And how are you going to market yourself? How are you going to, like, think outside the box? Well, as Tom and I mentioned before, what can you bring to the table that brings either some educational value or some even entertainment value? I feel like voice artists can really bring the entertainment value, because that's really, when I scroll at night, that's what I'm looking at, things that bring me entertainment value, because my brain is fried, because my brain is fried, and so I feel like as voice actors, as actors, we can do something creative and gosh. There's always podcasting, too. That's a form of social well, it's podcasting, but I consider it like a social media marketing.  27:07 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Oh, it absolutely is. What do you do? The second your podcast is published. Where's the first place you go?  27:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I social media market the podcast.  27:13 - Tom Dheere (Guest) You put it on social media.  27:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly exactly. And that podcast doesn't have to be talking about voiceover. That podcast can simply be whatever you're passionate about, whatever you're experienced in. Bring that past experience to your podcast. I mean, the possibilities are unlimited. And with that, without you direct marketing and hard selling your voice, you've got a platform where people hear your voice and they hear your voice on a consistent basis. And if you end up doing like Riverside, like we do, or some sort of video podcast, they're going to see you as well. So look at, you've just like killed how many birds with you know. I mean, you've just literally checked off multiple boxes just by having a podcast, that's video recorded.  27:52 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Yeah, and they're hard to put together and you know you need a creative team. You need to be able to be objective and figure out what are you lacking, what skill sets are you lacking, and do you develop those skills or do you outsource those tasks? But the most important thing of all of this stuff, regardless of the social media platform you use whether it's video or audio or pictures or whatever is that your most valuable asset to having a strong social media presence as a voice actor is you. You are unique. You have your own set of thoughts and feelings and opinions and experiences. Everything that happened to you before this moment informs you in this moment. So so many of my students try to sell themselves short. Well, I just started to be a voice actor, so I'm not worth anything. Yeah, but it's like weren't you a teacher for 20 years?  28:41 Yeah, well weren't you a registered nurse for 25 years? Well, maybe you know, it's like you have so much stuff to share.  28:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You have so many amazing life experiences and stories, all of which can be analogous you know, or allegorical, or anecdotal or any other SAT word I can come up with, because of all the A words you've just come up with A lot of A words in there, like Ann, to informing Thomas.  29:05 - Tom Dheere (Guest) There's an A in Thomas, but no one calls me Thomas, except for relatives that aren't with me anymore. But, like, all of those things can inform your social media presence, because who you are is authentic. The more authentic you can be, regardless of the content, the more you're going to resonate with people. Just to be successful on social media, be a good human, collect good humans, share human stories. That's your best bet to be successful as a boss.  29:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) What a wonderful note to end our discussion on actually yeah, be a lovely human and bring that to the masses. Oh gosh, we could probably go on forever about social media, but guys bosses, do the thing. As Mark Scott would say, do the thing. Or who else ever says that? It is something that does take time, it takes a strategy. It is a marathon and not a sprint. So thank you, tom, for chatting with me today about that. Always lovely to chat with you.  29:57 - Tom Dheere (Guest) You too.  29:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All right bosses. Big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week.  30:09 - Intro (Announcement) Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Anne welcomes the talented Tawny Platis, an accomplished voice actor and viral content creator. Tawny shares her compelling story, from her early days in childhood acting to launching a successful retail business at just 18, and ultimately thriving in the competitive voiceover industry. Their conversation unearths the business behind content creation and the effort required to engage audiences effectively. The BOSSes insights reveal the importance of passion and joy in crafting content that resonates, whether it's through comedy or informative storytelling. Tawny recounts her own path to becoming a viral sensation and shares how blending various skills and experiences can lead to a fulfilling and impactful career. Tawny shares practical tips for newcomers, from adapting one's voice for various professional settings to building a solid business foundation. 00:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, are you struggling with that ever-elusive, real, conversational, authentic, like you're talking to your best friend, Reed Book? Coaching with me and I'll help you take your voice over to a real and believable place. Find out more at annganguzacom.  00:21 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey, everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am so very excited to have with me in the studio special guest voice actor and boss viral content creator, tawny Plattis, packard, raid, shadow Legends, raycon Headphones and a billion more Too many for me to read. She's also currently the voice of Harmony's mom in the House on the Outland series by Make Animations and is going to play Sophie Bott in the upcoming Garbage People film now streaming on Tubi Tawny yay, you're here Finally.  01:23 - Tawny Platis (Guest) It was a long time coming. I'm so happy to be here.  01:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, thank you so, so much for taking a piece of your busy day and talking with us. Gosh, I've been following you for a long time and, I think, to a lot of people in the industry. All of a sudden they're like hey, have you seen this girl with this? Is it the 10 different styles of voiceover? Which is where I? That's the big one, that's the big one, right? Have you seen this girl? I'm like gosh, she's amazing and I'm like I've known that for many years. So perhaps you could take our bosses, who are not as familiar with you as I am and, by the way, I've been a fan of yours and I've watched you like rebrand, like through my eyes, and we could have five episodes talking about what a boss you are. But why don't you tell our bosses a little bit about your journey into voiceover and your career as it stands today?  02:13 - Tawny Platis (Guest) Yeah, I actually got my first voiceover job when I was six years old for a local radio station in San Diego, but my first on-camera role was for a baby blanket ad, also local to San Diego, when I was about four months old. So I've been doing this for a lot of decades now and kept doing that, you know, local child actor type of stuff until I turned 18. And then I started a retail store because I think we both know at this point, you know, the acting biz is very volatile.  02:41 So I was like I need to make sure I have like a backup plan just in case. This doesn't work out. So my backup plan was to start a retail business. Funny enough, what were you retailing? Just out of curiosity, if you're familiar with like consignment type stores like Buffalo Exchange, I did that, but it was like baby and maternity stuff.  02:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, wow, I love that. And was that just something you decided to do on your own Kind of?  03:03 - Tawny Platis (Guest) I had worked retail. I started working retail when I was like 15, 16, I want to say and I had a knack for it. I was pretty good at sales and I was like I think I could open a store, I think I could do this. I love that. So I was 18 and I did that my senior year of high school. I started doing that. Everybody else was getting ready to go to college and I was opening a store in the neighborhood over to mine and I built it up. It was just me, one other person from this little 500 square foot hole in the wall spot over two years to a 5,000 square foot warehouse type of store and it had 10 to 15 employees. And our biggest year, we did a little under a million dollars in sales.  03:40 So I went from doing like $150 a day in sales to doing that and being able to be financially independent by the time I was 23.  03:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So yeah, that's fantastic. Now, that's one part of your story I was not familiar with and that's fantastic. At a young age, the entrepreneur comes out, the boss entrepreneur. So I can only imagine that that really helped give you a great foundation for running your own voice acting business. I feel like you're so multifaceted that you're not just a voice actor. Right, you're an empire, and a lot of that empire and I want to kind of get right into it, because I know there's so many people that are like how did you do it? How did you become viral? Because that is so elusive to many people out there. So talk to us about the foundations in your business right in your retail business that helped you in evolving and growing in voiceover and how you've come to really not just be a voiceover actor but like, literally, you are a content creator, an influencer.  04:41 - Tawny Platis (Guest) Yeah, influencer that word? Yeah, I am though.  04:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, but you are, I mean you probably are sick of hearing that, but in reality you really are. I mean you've got the reach out there to really influence a lot of people and affect them. And I know from people who've come to me I'm like have you seen that girl? I mean of course I know that girl, she's super talented. But yeah, talk to the experience of your retail years and how it helped you.  05:05 - Tawny Platis (Guest) I think that is what has helped me the most, to be completely transparent, being able to also have that background with coming from a family that owned businesses, like for generations, you know, and it was all very much like very squarely middle class businesses too. That's another thing is like it definitely wasn't something where, like I came from, a lot of wealth or anything.  05:26 Everybody has always been right smack dab in the middle, but the privilege that I had from that was knowing how to run a business and know how to go about using LegalZoom just to start an LLC, and like knowing how to find the information that I needed to do what I wanted to do, and that's a huge leg up, and I often tell people that do ask me about voice acting so what do I need to do? What kind of agents do I need to pursue, what accents, what microphone do I need? And I'm like, like, but honestly, get a business plan, like I was like learn business.  05:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that. I love that.  05:59 - Tawny Platis (Guest) Yeah right.  05:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Because if people don't know who you are and can't find you, they can't hire you right as a business.  06:05 - Tawny Platis (Guest) And get good at sales. That's another thing too is like that has always been, I think really a huge part that gets overlooked in what we do. Like we have people that take all these classes and they're so into the microphone. What microphone do I need? What microphone do you have? Because that's the missing piece of the puzzle. I need to get the microphone, and it really isn't. You know, like that's the easiest part is like getting your sound studio, your recording space, set up. That part's easy. You pay some buddy $100, $200. They do a sample for you, they get you all set up and then you're good to go.  06:34 How are you finding work? How are you finding jobs? And then are you staying consistent with this? I can't tell people enough that, like there are admittedly so many incredibly talented voice actors out there who send me their stuff and I'm like you're better than I am and they don't do anything with it because they don't know how to sell, they don't know how to run a business. You know, which is kind of an unfortunate part about being an artist and a creative is like we are so focused on that, which is wonderful, but the reality, the unfortunate reality is like.  07:03 We have to know how to turn that into a business and be able to boss ourselves, because we don't have somebody telling us what to do. So learn how to run a business. That's the biggest piece of advice to doing well in this industry is being able to manage yourself and learning how to sell your product, which is your voice.  07:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So then let me ask you I assume that your content creation, even though sometimes it seems to have nothing to do with voice, although there's a lot of videos that you've done that talk about voiceover you've also done a lot of videos that don't necessarily talk about voiceover.  07:37 I mean, you did one video, actually, which I really loved, on synthetic voices, and I was like, where does this woman come from? Because, look, as you know, with the VO Boss podcast and I say this all the time literally for about a year I did extensive interviews with CEOs of AI companies and talking about synthetic voices and talking about ethical practices and all that stuff, and you came out with a video that was so in depth about your thoughts and your take on it, which I was just I don't know where this girl comes from I was just so, so impressed with that. I had to tell you that, as a fangirl and, doing the work that I've done and studying it, I thought that that was an amazing video. So your content is not just about the 10 voices of voiceover. So talk about how the type of content that you create, how does that help you to market?  08:26 - Tawny Platis (Guest) I love that. You asked that. So the way that that helps me to market is I'm talking about things that are relevant right now, and so much of how I figured that out is what made me, I think, successful in retail as well, which is very much like analytics driven. It's observational. I spend hours, you know, researching what's trending, what are people talking about, how are people moving, how are successful people who are doing what I'm doing? What are they doing? And then to juxtapose that, what is nobody doing either, you know, and how do I combine those things? So it's like I'm filling a need that's not being filled here, but am I doing it in a way that I have seen as proven successful? Like when I had my retail store it was 2009, so cut me some slack here but like I was obsessed with Mark Zuckerberg and what he was doing. You know, I'm like how is he figuring this out? How is he doing all this? Like how? And then Apple I was obsessed with Apple. Like how is Apple dominating? Like this, like, how is this so?  09:21 relevant dominating the market?  09:23 yeah, now we know what we know, um, you know, but that has continued in my career with voice acting, with content creation. You know how are people editing their videos, so it's not like copying, like verbatim what somebody's doing, but it's like not doing the millennial pause, for instance, like that's like such a huge faux pas when you're creating content. It's like setting up your camera and then, like you know, right then, like you know, like it's recording, and you leave this big old gap in the beginning to make sure you're recording. It's quick edits, it's speaking quickly and then the topics that you know are trending right now. So so much of I think what goes into that is being very aware of trends, and I say the same thing with voiceover.  10:02 It's something I have noticed twice now in my career is like the way that I market in content creation is very similar to like what I do in voiceover, in the sense of I'm very much obsessed with the trends and analytics and tracking all of that, and I have noticed that a couple of times in my career now in voiceover, where we've had these big shifts in style and people are often blindsided and I can usually tell those are the voice actors that have stopped watching commercials.  10:30 They don't take that time every day to go on iSpot TV or Hulu or YouTube or just wherever you find commercials and to watch them and to listen like, okay, who's getting cast what's popular right now? And we had that shift from the announcer read in the 90s and the 1000s to conversational, you know in the 10s. And now we're detached conversational, like with that Poppy commercial in the Super Bowl, and I'm seeing that with voice actors. They're like what does detached conversational mean? What is this? You know, and I'm like I hear it all the time, you know. So I think that, like making sure that you are staying just up to date with everything that's going on, and that means taking those classes, being involved in the community. That's going to ensure that you stay relevant.  11:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, and also for those people that are doing non-broadcast work like e-learning and corporate narration, it's also important to see what is corporate narration. I have so many people that don't really understand what corporate narration is, and within the word corporate narration is the word corporate. Okay, companies are formed for a reason right To sell. So in corporate narration your focus is a sell. Now it's a longer style, it's a longer format than, let's say, a commercial. So your sell is very nuanced and guess you know what? It's not just information delivery, there's a sell.  11:43 You have to connect and you have to have a back and forth in order to connect with your listener and that becomes a conversation.  11:49 And so if I say I want it conversational, it doesn't mean I want it casual and I may not want it detached if we're talking about corporate, because in reality, for corporate, you're an authority, you know what you're talking about and you've got a long time to talk about it, so you may not be detached unless you're shooting for a specific market.  12:06 So I love the fact that you talk about market research, because anybody that goes and all of you bosses out there can go and do research on okay, what's trending in corporate narration? What's trending in e-learning. There's lots of externally facing e-learning modules out there as well, and the one thing that people say is that e-learning is going to get taken up by synthetic voices. But I say that most people that really want a connected teacher and student connection are not going to go that way, and that's the way it should have been all along. But we ended up reading our material like robots and that's kind of why the first thing people think is that, oh yeah, synthetic voices are going to take that over. So the people who thought that was okay, the buyers are going to continue to think that's okay and maybe have a synthetic voice. But those who want a person that can connect right, no matter what genre, they're going to hire that human.  12:58 - Tawny Platis (Guest) I hope so. That's my thoughts on it.  13:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's my thoughts on it until, ultimately, our ears become attuned to maybe a different sound. But I love the market research and I love the fact that you kept the word conversational in there, because I don't want to disband the word conversational, because conversation indicates that you've got a back and forth Right. So let's talk about content. In terms of being a boss and creating content, what percentage of your day is thinking of content, creating content? What does it take to create great content? And is there a secret to having that content go viral? Of course, everybody wants to know the secret, that kind of thing.  13:32 - Tawny Platis (Guest) I'm so glad you asked that too, because everybody's like what's your secret to going viral? From my standpoint as somebody who does this, I don't think there is a secret beyond the secret being like you got to be in the right place at the right time.  13:45 So often which I don't think people like to hear, because that's very scary that there is a luck component to everything we do, and that doesn't mean it's only luck.  13:56 That means you have to be really good at what you do, you have to work really hard, and then you also have to get lucky.  14:00 And I think that's terrifying to people, as they're like so I can do everything right and it still won't happen, and I'm like, yeah, so much of it is the right place at the right time, and then it taking time to.  14:11 You know, like I've been doing this for years, yes, and then I am, within the last year or so, I'm at the point where it's like I pretty much just need to upload a video every day, couple days, few days, whatever it is. I pretty much just get emails at this point in my inbox that are like hey, we'd like to hire you for XYZ, and I'm very grateful to be in that position to where it's like that's pretty much all the marketing I really need to do, unless I'm after something really cool and specific. Like I'm like I want to do more, like big animation now, so I'm going to reach out to some people, but like now it's like I'm able to like make a living just posting that content and having people find me as a voice actor and hire me for these jobs, and it has taken, you know, literally decades to get to that point of being able to be your overnight success took decades right.  14:57 Yeah, so yes.  14:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And the viral thing was the luck component of it being in the right part at the right time. But I mean, you've been posting videos for gosh since I've been following you, which is years, and you had, I think, in the beginning and I always thought that this was such a tough shtick, is you were comedy. I mean, a lot of what you do has a comedy element to it. Do you think that that has something to do with, let's say, your success in terms of being viral or just having people love your videos?  15:26 - Tawny Platis (Guest) I do. I think that you have to choose one of two things when it comes to doing content creation, or both things. You have to entertain or you have to educate. Yes, I agree, and you know, if you're like me and you don't have a degree, you're not an expert in anything. You can't be like look, I have the piece of paper that says I'm smart. Yeah, you know, you just went right out of high school into the working world. You have to entertain, you know, or you have to establish yourself so much that you do become an expert in something. And again, that takes time just the amount of years you've been doing it. So I was like okay, I don't have the piece of paper saying I'm an authority to speak on something, so I guess I have to be entertaining. And I think that there's a couple ways you can do that, and one of the ways is through making people laugh. You know, and I think that's a big draw to something. It's like oh, I like this content because it makes me laugh.  16:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Everybody likes to laugh, so that's where that really came from was just not being educated enough to make educational content to me, since I've been following you with the comedy and then also with your experience in retail and having that, I feel like you took on the challenge and you loved it, and so now you've got this really cool mix of. I know maybe you don't want to be called an influencer, but in reality when now people are asking you to create content and sell right and then also use your voice right and you're on camera, so I feel like it just took every piece of you that you've maybe been passionate about or loved. Listen to me, I'm analyzing you right now and it just brought it together into this beautiful like. This is where you are today, unless, of course, it doesn't bring you joy, but I kind of feel like it might. I don't know. I feel like you like what you do. I do like what I do.  17:05 - Tawny Platis (Guest) I'm very, very lucky that I get to do this and I'm very lucky that I was born into a certain situation where it was truly the perfect storm, where it was like having that family that like could teach me how to run a business. Right, right and like you know, for better or for worse, being put into acting as an infant and doing that for 30 some odd years. I'm extremely lucky in that way that, like I really did have kind of all of that stuff that allowed this to happen.  17:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, it's like all the pieces together into like where you are today just seem to be like it's all the pieces that you're amazing at and that have just come together to work well for you. I always tell bosses that for me it's worked out to kind of follow where my joys and passions are, because the energy that I'm putting out really is what people can connect to. And that is where I think success comes, and it doesn't necessarily have to be success just financially. It can just be success in like I've created some really great content that has changed people's lives and you have certainly done that. And that, see, I'm going to get all choked up because I know what that's like.  18:09 Do you know what I mean? I'm not saying that I'm viral, but as a teacher, right, my mission and my joy is to make an impact right and to really help people or make them smile when they're down or, you know, inspire them. And you, I mean I mean you've done that and see, I get, I get. I'm like emotional. I get emotional because I just love that. I love when people can do that and they do do that and they realize it and that seems to be like their mission to really just help and inspire and entertain and make people smile. So Thank you for that.  18:41 - Intro (Announcement) Thank you for that.  18:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And now I'm going to ask you do you miss any one part of it more than the other? Do you miss, like on-camera acting, or like, do you feel like in the future you might want to do, like, maybe more of that, or maybe you want to open a new store? Where are you going next? I mean, what's up next?  18:58 - Tawny Platis (Guest) for you, it will never be retail again. I will live on the streets before I ever do retail again. Retail is so tough, oh gosh.  19:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) What about online retail? Though you don't have the inventory, you don't necessarily have the brick and mortar.  19:09 - Tawny Platis (Guest) That's the problem.  19:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) No, I mean, you don't have the brick and mortar.  19:12 - Tawny Platis (Guest) Let's put that right, I always make this joke that I'm like you know, retail is unhealthy. When you go from retail to going to entertainment and go, people are so nice and like encouraging, encouraging, and this is so healthy for me, it's so healthy being in entertainment, you know, like that's really an indicator of how horrendous like working with like retail and customer service and with the public, like that that's so funny that you say that, because I remember when I got married, my in-laws owned a wedding, a bridal shop, and I was like you know, I think this could be a fun thing.  19:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They're like oh God, no fun thing.  19:42 - Tawny Platis (Guest) They're like oh God, no, you don't want to go. No, you don't want to go. Oh, I've worked bridal.  19:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, I've worked, bridal, you don't want to go bridal and God forbid, you don't want to go bridal retail.  19:46 - Tawny Platis (Guest) And I'm like, oh okay, I've worked bridal and I've worked with parents and I don't care for either of those demographics. You know I get you there.  19:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So let me ask you a question in terms coaching, voiceover coaching Tell us a little bit about that.  20:04 - Tawny Platis (Guest) Sure, yeah, I do business coaching for voiceover. That is like kind of my main thing. And then I do the surrounding stuff around that. So, like I do like voiceover 101, which is like very like step one through a million of like how to go, and specifically for that person, when it comes to like private coaching, I'm like, okay, what are your goals, what is it you want to do?  20:28 And then what's your background you know, and then we can talk about like how to get from point A to point B and then also like my opinion on kind of like what you should do, let's get you a voiceover evaluation, kind of get an idea of like how much coaching you're going to need here roughly. And then I also, you know, do the specialty coaching, where it's stuff that I particularly have mastery in. So I teach stuff like you know, the content creation that I've been doing for a lot of years, the business side of things been doing business for a lot of years and then the areas of voice acting where I predominantly work, which is a lot of corporate e-learning and then commercial. I don't think it's really ethical to teach voiceover stuff that you don't have like at least 10 years of experience in, so yeah audiobooks is not one of those things I teach just for that reason.  21:07 I'm like audiobooks. I'm still newer in that game. So, yeah, that is what I do coach and I have pre-recorded classes that are more generic. So it's more like this is all the ins and outs of the industry as of the beginning of 2024. So that's always a great option for people if they're looking for something that is like more. Let me just hear 130 plus minutes of like what the voiceover industry is and how to like kind of go about it. That's always something that is really really helpful, I have found, for people. But, yeah, I do that kind of coaching and typically with my private sessions, I try to only keep a few people that.  21:42 I work with at a time so I can really give them the time that I do have, because that's another important thing. If you're teaching voiceover, I think you should be working in voiceover and I am booked every day, agreed, agreed.  21:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I know myself, I'm scheduled to the max because I do voiceover and I coach and I produce demos and I do a couple other things. I do this podcast, so it is every minute of the day is scheduled for me, which I assume is exactly the same for you. So, absolutely, that's wonderful. So, in terms of the future, where do you see yourself in the future?  22:12 - Tawny Platis (Guest) Honestly, I have no idea and I think that that is because I very much follow where my career is going at the time, where the leads are, and I'm very open to what that could be. I didn't think I'd be here Like I oftentimes tell people, particularly in with what got me into voice acting full-time. I never thought that was going to be where I ended up. I went into corporate and I was like this voice Because like I pitch my voice lower so I sound like an adult, but like I have a very high pitch, like I don't usually show people my natural voice, but like my natural voice is really up here, like when I talk to people, but I sound like a baby. So I'm like always like sound like an adult and like one of my teachers told me that in high school she was like you need to do something about your voice.  22:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, interesting, yeah, otherwise nobody's going to take you seriously.  22:58 - Tawny Platis (Guest) And I was thinking like, even with this being my pretend speaking voice. I still feel like it's pretty high. So it was like nobody's going to hire me for corporate. And then somebody found me for corporate and that's where I ended up and I do a lot of that kind of e-learning corporate stuff in San Diego that's so interesting.  23:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So now, when you're completely relaxed, does your voice, do you let your voice go back up, or is it something you've just kind of muscle memory trained yourself to kind of just speak in a particular pitch?  23:25 - Tawny Platis (Guest) It's very muscle memory. The only time when that does come out is when I am really comfortable and relaxed. So, like you know, if my voice starts going up, like that, like that's how you know I'm like really comfy with you.  23:37 So if I start talking to you like this, that's how you know that we're really tight, so pretty much like my roommate, my best friends, like family, like they will hear that one, but even with them it usually like it'll take a few minutes or a drink to like a drink or two, and then it comes back. Yeah, I got you, I got you.  23:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wow. Well, what would be your best tip for those bosses just starting out in the industry?  24:03 - Tawny Platis (Guest) My best tip business class, like from somebody who teaches business, like and general business, is great too. I think it applies, I think retail applies so heavily to voice acting funny enough or maybe not so funny, but I think like just that is such an oversight. You know so much of voiceover you can learn very quickly, and then the rest of it is practice, which there's no rushing, there's no rushing practice. You know, some of us have, I think, kind of more of an inclination similar to like learning piano, where like you have that friend.  24:32 that just it makes sense to them and it doesn't make sense to you and you have to practice more and that's just is what it is. But I don't feel like there's enough emphasis put on the business and the sales side of what we do. So, like that's, my biggest advice is like get those classes, do your research before you pay for anything like ask around, make sure you take your time so you find somebody who's reputable. I think we both know that's another big issue in our industry. So, yeah, I think that is probably the best piece of advice I could give to people who are starting out in this.  25:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, that's great advice. So how can bosses get in touch with you if they would like to find out more and overwork with?  25:10 - Tawny Platis (Guest) you? Yeah, my website is tawnyvoicecom and I have all my contact information there. Depending on how you want to get in touch with me, there's a lot of different ways, awesome.  25:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, thank you so much. Oh my gosh, I could talk to you for another hour or so, and then maybe we'll be at that level where you're talking with your real voice to me. But anyways, thank you so much. We so appreciate the words of wisdom that you've given to us Bosses. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too, can network and connect like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Tani, you're the best. Thank you so much.  25:45 Thank you, Bosses have a great week and we'll see you next week. Bye.  25:50 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at VOBosscom and receive exclusive content industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a bosscom and receive exclusive content industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipdtl.   

Discover the keys to financial success in your voiceover business with our latest episode featuring the savvy money boss herself, Danielle Famble. Learn how to categorize your business expenses to maximize tax benefits and streamline your finances. From new equipment to that signature lipstick you love, learn how to turn everyday purchases into strategic business investments. Danielle shares her expert advice on the importance of collaborating with accountants and bookkeepers to ensure every dollar spent works for you, boosting both profitability and business accountability. Our conversation also includes actionable tips for managing your finances effectively, focusing on understanding profit and loss statements. Regularly reviewing your financial statements can prevent overspending and foster business growth, and we provide the know-how to keep your budget healthy. 00:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, Anne Ganguza here. Are you ready to take the next step in your voiceover career? At Anne Ganguza Productions, I specialize in target marketed coaching and demo production that gets you booked. If you're thinking about elevating your performance or creating an awesome demo, check me out at annganguzacom.  00:22 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, nne Ganguza.  00:41 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Boss Money Talk series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm delighted to bring back our resident money boss, Danielle Famble, to the show.  00:55 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Danielle- hey Anne.  00:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yay, welcome. How are you today?  00:58 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Hey, I'm great. How are?  00:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) you doing? I'm doing awesome. Well, danielle, I bought a new lipstick for the show, a new lipstick the new Red Boss lipstick. Those people that know me know that I'm all about my lipsticks and I talk about my lipstick brand and I use my lipstick and my colors for my branding, for my business. And I started to think, well, okay, can I expense this lipstick? Right, can I expense this lipstick? And so I chatted with my accountant to find out if it was possible to do that, and you know what it is. So I am so excited that I can now put lipstick. And we all know about these headphones. I was like, yeah, I know I could have expensed these headphones. It's a business expense, but guess what this lipstick is too.  01:45 And I think it's important for bosses to understand a little bit I think more about. We talked in our last episode about how important education was to the bosses. It's important to educate yourself on the basics of, let's say, bookkeeping for your business, like what sorts of things do you spend money on and how do you categorize them. I think that's an important aspect of bookkeeping. What are your thoughts on that, danielle?  02:09 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Oh yeah, that's really important. It's important to know how your business is working and bookkeeping is sort of the daily ledger of what money is coming in and going out for your business, knowing even the basics of bookkeeping and the basics of bookkeeping. In our last conversation, our last episode, we talked about the bookkeepers or people that you might have on your team, which they may be doing it, but you, as the VO boss, should understand even just the basics of bookkeeping for your business. So you know, when I spend money on this lipstick or these headphones or a new microphone, these are expenses that can be expense for my business. And what are the categories that you can expense things in your business. I recently bought a ticket to go to another one of the voiceover conferences and so I was thinking, okay, how am I expensing this? What account am I using for it? Making sure it's in my business account and it's going to be expense for continuing education. So I know the different categories and what you can expense in your business.  03:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I think it's so important because before I actually had an accountant and I was trying to do this all on my own and I'm like, well, all right, at least I learned that I needed to have right. We talked how important it was to have that separate business account.  03:20 But, then all of a sudden it was like what are my expenses, right? I just started throwing everything in and then it would always ask me what's the category? And I'm like, oh, I didn't think about what are the categories that are useful in your bookkeeping for voiceover? And I thought, wow, there's equipment, my internet connection. How do I classify that right? Subscriptions.  03:40 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) SourceConnect. Even I pay for extra storage with Google, with my Gmail. That kind of thing can be expensed. The people that you work with. So we talked about the bookkeepers and the CPAs paying them for their services.  03:55 Working with professionals, so professional fees there are so many things.  04:00 That's what's great about running a business is that you get to make money and then you can expense all of these different things and then you're taxed on that.  04:10 It's completely the opposite, for as a person, you get taxed on the money that you bring in, right, and then anything else is sort of just like deductions but like running a business is really amazing. That's why I love getting into the weeds about money and finances and bookkeeping, because once you learn how to sort of not play the game but kind of play the game, you can really make your business work for you much more efficiently. So learning about what it is that you're trying to do and making sure by being educated through a CPA or just finding you know education on your own, making sure that you can expense that appropriately for your business, sure, legally, in a tax efficient way, you can do a lot because we we use our bodies for our business. The chair that I'm sitting in in my studio is like an expensive ergonomic chair that normally I would not have ever purchased, but I'm in this chair for hours and so back support is really important, so that was part of the furniture of my office space.  05:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And even medical that isn't covered by insurance, right? Medical expenses? Because is my Peloton? Is that an expense for my business?  05:19 And I love what you said about knowing these things right and understanding the basics of what can be expense.  05:26 What category am I putting it in? Because when I first started, I all of a sudden thought, oh God, there's categories. And then I didn't really categorize them properly, or I didn't quite know what categories to create, I mean. But in the end, when you look at your profit and loss statement, which is something that's so very basic to any accounting, right, I would look at the number and I'd say expenses, and it would be one big lump sum and I'd be like, well, what did I spend my money on? Right? And so that's where I think the importance of being able to categorize things really comes into play. And the fact is is that when you know about categories and things that you can expense for your business, it opens up the door of so many possibilities. It allowed me to confidently say, all right, I can do this, knowing that I'll be able to expense it for my business, and I think it helps me to actually go forth more confidently and also be more willing to try new avenues to grow my business.  06:21 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, the confidence that comes from the education is second to none. And I will say, the best place to get that level of education for your business, for the business that you, vo Boss, are running not my business or Ann's business, but your specific business is to go to the person who has the knowledge about the numbers of your business it makes no sense to expense everything and who has the knowledge about the numbers of your business. It makes no sense to expense everything and then at the end of the year it looks like you made no profit because, again, the idea of running a business is to make a profit. It's not just to break even. We want to make money. That's why we're here.  06:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And, by the way, if you report to the government that you've lost money for over five years in a row, they're going to start getting suspicious. And then the audit will come and, by the way, I've been audited twice and.  07:09 I'm not ashamed of it because there's no foul play there or anything like that. I mean, literally, it's just when you run a business and you make money, they get a little bit interested in it and you can't have any red flags show up. And if you're going to be expensing everything and not showing a profit for a certain amount of time, then it might get a little bit suspicious. So you really need to work with someone, I think, that has an awareness of what's in the realm of reality, so that you're not necessarily taking advantage, even though I have my accountant. I literally purchased Rocket Money last year because I had so many subscriptions and I lost track of them, and that's like a big thing. Now is everything digital, is you're buying a subscription to it? I had subscriptions I forgot about right, and so I paid, of course, a subscription price to use rocket money. And then the funny thing about it is that if you do rocket money, they'll go and they'll find all your subscriptions, and then ultimately, you can even say at the end I'm like, oh gosh, do I really need to pay seven? I think it was $7 a month. Do I need to pay $7 a month to Rocket Money now Because they found all my subscriptions. They also offer to reduce the amount of money for your subscriptions because they'll go and negotiate with the companies to get a better rate.  08:22 A lot of times you can say you know what I mean, I just can't afford it. I'm getting ready to cancel. And then they'll renegotiate with you. But you can also renegotiate with Rocket Money and say I can't afford the $7. And they'll say, well, what do you feel is fair? And so I said, all right, I can pay $3 a month. And so guess what? I? That's fantastic. But I've already paid them for two years.  08:42 And all of a sudden I realized down at the bottom, I was thinking about canceling. And then they're like, hey, why don't you pay us what you think is fair? I said, all right, well, I can do this. Suffice to say, it's just one of those things that it helps you to really identify, like where your money is going. And so categories to me seem to be such a fundamental part of basic accounting and bookkeeping. And so what are some other like? If you look at a profit and loss statement, like I know some people, their eyes are maybe glazing over Profit and loss. It seems so formal. But what sorts of things are we going to be looking at when we see a profit and loss statement Like what's important for us to know as business owners?  09:22 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) The main thing with a profit and loss statement is it really is sort of the name of it Profit, how much came in? How much money did the business make in this given period of time? Let's say it's a quarter or a month and I've been receiving monthly profit and loss statements. But how much money did you make during this given period of time and how much money went out during that same given period of time?  09:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Inflows, outflows.  09:45 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Inflows and outflows, how much came in, how much went out. I think it's really important to first think about how much came in, because you have a lot of control over that. That could be how much you're quoting for your clients, how many jobs that you've done, what your bookings are like. You have control over that aspect of it and you also have control over the loss side of it. How much is going out? So things like your subscriptions, which for me, I will say, when I really started like digging into my profit and loss statement, when I looked at subscription, I was like, well, what am I spending my money on? This is so much, it's crazy, crazy. Apple. Google Source.  10:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Connect Internet connection.  10:27 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Internet connections Internet connections, all the things. Quickbooks, yes, quickbooks.  10:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) My account.  10:32 - Intro (Announcement) All these different things.  10:34 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I mean it's just like I probably just named $100 just in that you know. Yeah, so it's knowing what is going out. Subscriptions for me is huge. Also, sometimes equipment but I don't buy a lot of equipment for my business that often Like, yeah, maybe I'll buy another microphone or an interface or an extra cable just in case For me.  10:57 And again, this is something that a VO boss can look at their business and say, what do I need for my business? And then you'll know, okay, this is the category and this is how it's going to affect my profit and loss. But normally for me anyway, my business with the profit and loss, with the monthly expenses, it's really those subscriptions. And I think I love what you said about Rocket Money, where you can take a look and see like, do I really need all these subscriptions? And then you can kind of tune what is going out on your profit and loss statement. Another aspect would be the people that you pay. So if you have an assistant or a bookkeeper or if you're working with a CPA or whatever else that's going on. And it really is kind of going back to personal finance. It's kind of like looking at your budget for the month how much is going out for your budget every month in your home and then how much is coming in. It's the same kind of thing.  11:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So profit and loss, your profit. And then, of course, what are some other, let's say, terms that you might see on a profit and loss statement, and I'm thinking like expenses right, obviously or inflows, outflows, assets I know I see that term a lot. What do you consider to be an asset in a voiceover, in a VO business?  12:11 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) So, assets are anything that you own, that your business owns. I consider assets to be things like my booth is an asset. I could sell my booth for a certain amount of money, and so that's an asset. My microphone is an asset. My interface is an asset, any sort of like business furniture, that kind of thing those are the assets.  12:33 A physical item, a physical item Like what the business owns. I'm a physical item, but my voice is the business, and so I am an asset of my business as well. I mean, you can't sell me.  12:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You can sell your voice.  12:47 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yes, I license the use of my voice. I sell my voice, but really, assets are anything that your business owns, but those are things that may or may not show up in your monthly profit and loss. Well, they might show up in your monthly profit and loss, but for me, when I'm looking at it, I'm looking at expenses.  13:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, when I'm looking at my overview, I'm seeing assets in there. So that was just a term that I thought oh God, assets. It just seems so foreign. You know what I mean Because I'm not a financial person, so to speak. I mean, but I have to be a financial person enough to understand what I'm looking at on any given month or any given report, a profit and loss statement Also, so I know. Another term that I've seen on my reports is liabilities. What would be my liability?  13:31 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Liabilities would also be like your debt, so what you owe For me? I put most of my expenses on my business's credit card, yes, and then I pay that off at the end of the month, so I'm seeing sort of a rotating liability.  13:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I was going to say your credit card would be considered a liability then right, because that's something that you owe on.  13:51 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Right, and for me that's, generally speaking, what it looks like in this business.  13:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, that makes sense. And one note that I'll say about my I have a business credit card, which is I think it's one of the best. In addition to that separate business account, having a business credit card makes it so, so easy. I have a business credit card and a business debit card, and it makes it so easy to keep track because, again, everything is like electronic these days, and so I can feed it in as a stream into my QuickBooks, and so the only issue I have, though, is I have a business American Express Now my American Express.  14:28 In and of itself, that credit card categorizes things, but it doesn't necessarily categorize it as it comes into QuickBooks, so that's something that my bookkeeper or accountant will do to make sure that we know, okay, what was that $100 charge or what was that charge that just came through, that charge that just came through, and so I think that having a if you can keep it simple we talked about that before if you can keep it simple, having a business card that you use just for business expenses and that can include, like, maybe, paying stuff online or physically buying like a new mic, or going out and buying dinner for voiceover people during a meetup, right, that kind of thing. I will always use my business card so that that can just go automatically into my expenses.  15:12 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Absolutely. I do the same thing. My business credit card is through Chase and what's interesting is that Chase will do its best to categorize things, but it's not quite right all the time and then bring it into QuickBooks, because I have QuickBooks automatically linked to. Chase. It's not the same thing. So part of the basics of bookkeeping for me is making sure that I have done the homework of categorizing it correctly in Chase and in.  15:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) QuickBooks. That's a good point.  15:46 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Really, the person who's doing the QuickBooks, more or less, has in the past been my bookkeeper, but I'm starting to take more responsibility for it because my bookkeeper makes assumptions and will ask me about it. But I have the single point of truth because I was the one who swiped it. Sometimes I'm like what was that? What version of Danielle swiped that card?  16:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) for that thing I always be like what is this charge? I would say, bosses, it's so important to do. When you do have a business card, a business credit card or a business debit card, it's like really visit those transactions like frequently, because there'll be a lot of times when it'll be fresh and you'll be like I have no idea who that vendor is Like, what is that charge for? I have no idea who that vendor is Like, what is that charge for? And if you can immediately just kind of make that adjustment, it's going to be so helpful, rather than waiting until the end of the month and then saying, oh my gosh, I have no idea who this vendor is, and then maybe you find out you have that subscription you've paid for six months in a row and you didn't need it. So I think it's important to always be checking those expenses all the time and looking at them, because sometimes and I will say this as a girl who loves to shop and I love to shop online Amazon has ruined me.  16:51 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I'm just saying I'll tell you Same, same.  16:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I need it now. I need everything because Amazon seems to sell everything and I need it before 24 hours. This is a side note, but anytime I work through another vendor and it takes like five days to ship, I'm like really what? Yeah, you don't have that two-day shipping what is that what's going on? And then when Amazon delays the order, I'm like what? Like I get angry, but anyways, I digress.  17:14 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) No, but you're making a really good point and I'll speak from personal experience, because this is something that I did not do for the longest and I'm currently in the moment going through three or four months ago of expenses because I didn't do it even though yeah, my bookkeeper will, but I'm sort of like after the fact, following up on what my bookkeeper did, because maybe it is or is not the correct yes thing to categorize.  17:38 It's something that can be done at the end of the week and it takes just a few moments, yeah, but if you put a little bit of time into it more frequently, it will save you hours and googles and headaches later.  17:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Calling. I agree I don't do it as much as I should either, and it's just one of those things that when you have to go back and figure out, oh my God, what was that expense? So I think it's important absolutely that you are looking at your cards and your debits and outgoing expenses and, of course, incoming as well. The other thing that I want to talk about is the fees. Right, Because the fees are not something that aren't automatically handled all the time by QuickBooks. When you have a I guess you call it a feed your bank feed right, it could be things coming in from PayPal. Well, PayPal takes a certain amount, a percentage, for transactions. Stripe takes a certain percentage, Everybody does. Quickbooks takes a certain percentage. You have to account for that in your bookkeeping and that is an important thing to categorize, because maybe you think you're making $100, but in reality you're making $98.53. And so that becomes an important thing.  18:43 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) It's incredibly important too, because, yes, you are not making the $100 to your point that you think you are, but that fee is a business expense, that fee is a cost of doing business, and so it does need to be accounted for appropriately. Now, does that mean that I am the person going through and marking every single fee?  19:03 No, that is why I have eventually outsourced that to a bookkeeper, but I do need to know the difference between how much should have come in and these fees, because the fees are an expense and those expenses do add up. So when you're looking at your profit and loss it's like whoa, what is this? You should understand that some of this is fees. Some of it is Danielle swiping the card for whatever thing, maybe a subscription, or maybe buying something for my business. But you should know the difference. And then that actually gives you the opportunity to decide and plan and budget for your business. Oh yeah, so if I can see what's going on with my expenses, maybe I've been spending a little bit too much on subscriptions. If I can cut that back, then I can use that additional money to take a class or to do a coaching or whatever. It gives you the knowledge and it arms you with like what you need to be financially responsible for running your business.  20:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And also it helps you to determine as well what to charge. Yeah, because sometimes I take fees into account. I do believe that fees are part of being a business. So I'm not that one person who says, can you pay me friends and family? Because if it's a business, I mean I'm willing to pay that. I mean, if I can get away with it, sure, not paying that fee, but in reality I'm a business.  20:24 So I've come to accept that there will be a fee and so if I want to make it accountable, right, I'm going to have to pay that fee. So I might. Then, instead of charging $100 for the job, I might charge $125. And then I've accounted for that fee in my head, but I haven't told anybody that I'm accounting. Necessarily, the company doesn't need to know that I'm charging $25 more because I want to account for that fee, or whatever I decide to do. I mean, that's one thing is being aware of those expenses as you are getting paid will help you to determine your fair compensation. And of course, we always like to say that you are worth it. Yes, you are, so price yourself appropriately.  21:03 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) And I think being aware it means really looking at like the data of your business. That's how you become aware. Really looking at like the data of your business, that's how you become aware.  21:13 If you allow someone else to deal with it, then you're not really aware of what's going on with your business and you're missing out on some opportunities for maybe charging more or maybe how you can save money because you're spending a certain amount more than you should or more than you've budgeted. Staying on top of the basics of the bookkeeping really kind of keeps you aware of what's going on in your business. Again, I'll say I've not done a great job at this in the past and I'm learning from my negligence in the past is really that like. If I can keep my mind and my eyes on the day-to-day expenses and profit in my business, that actually makes me feel so much more confident and competent when I am requesting or making a quote for a certain amount of money. However, I'm running my business.  21:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's giving me so much more confidence because I know the day-to-day data of my business financially speaking, yeah it is absolutely important and, as I was alluding to before, being an online girl, like an online shopper, when I went off on that tangent of Amazon, sometimes it's like a little bit of an addiction. It's like here, click, buy, and it's so easy. And again, it's so easy to not look right, it's so easy to not look at your credit card expenses, or so easy to like kind of avoid it. And I'm that person. I'm willing to admit it. I mean, I've been in denial. I might have had a month or two where I was like way overspent, I shouldn't have purchased that.  22:36 But I think keeping your eyes on your finances it's kind of like you know, I've been on this health journey, right, and before I wouldn't look at the scale, I would not look, I did not weigh myself for a long, long time and now, all of a sudden, when you're watching right, it makes you become more conscious and it keeps you more on top of things.  22:51 So I do believe it's very important for you to really check those finances, check the bookkeeping, and it'll really, like you said, make you feel so much more confident and so much more competent right in running that business, because you will have a handle on. Okay, I know that I'm not really utilizing this subscription software anymore, so I can maybe give that up and then maybe invest in something else. So it really clears the path for you to grow. And I think that is one thing that is so important in our businesses that we should always be looking for opportunities to grow and financial anything should not be inhibiting us from doing that. If you can find ways to save, find ways to be aware of your finances and understand, oh, I can save something here, so that means I can invest more here, that's just going to give you a whole lot more confidence moving forward.  23:41 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah, I love that. And also, if you're not sure and you have questions, the best place to ask those questions or the best person to ask those questions is to the person who knows your business intimately and also what the implications are. So that would be an accountant or that would be some sort of professional. It's not going to the Facebook groups and saying, hey, can I expense? Blah, blah, blah, because what I can expense in my business may be different than what you can expense in your business and my revenue and ability to expense certain things in my business can maybe withstand me spending a certain amount of money on a certain category.  24:16 So my answer might be not the right answer for your business. So I think it's really important to educate yourself. Find the perfect person to educate you, and it's someone who knows your business. And if you don't work with an accountant already, find someone, have them look at the numbers of your business. And if you don't work with an accountant already, find someone, have them look at the numbers of your business and then they can tell you specifically the answer to your specific unique business.  24:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And they can help you set up those categories which we say are so important, right and then? So I would say absolutely kind of, to recap right, your essentials of bookkeeping are to really keep an eye on a daily, weekly basis on inflows and outflows, understand your categories and if you don't know how to categorize something, you can certainly talk to your bookkeeper or someone knowledgeable that can help you with that. And is it an expense, yes or no? You can find out more that way and ask someone that this is what they do for a living I mean, I'm a big proponent of that and educate yourself on the basics of looking at a profit and loss statement, because I think that's going to be so important in helping you to really organize and make plans and strategize your goals for the future.  25:24 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Absolutely.  25:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, another wonderful Money Talks with Danielle today. Thanks so much for joining me again. I'm looking forward to our next podcast, Thanks and me too.  25:36 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah, I love it. I love talking money.  25:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, and a big shout out to IPDTL you too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses, have an amazing week and make sure to check those books. We'll see you next week.  25:52 - Intro (Announcement) Bye, guys, bye join us next week for another edition of vo boss, with your host and ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Immerse yourself in the art of building and sustaining your business. In this episode, the BOSSES highlight the critical role of consistent auditioning and active marketing, emphasizing the necessity of maintaining strong connections with industry professionals. Overcome fears and harness your unique personality and energy to make genuine connections. Get inspired by our creative marketing techniques, including SMS and email outreach, and learn how to ensure you're always top of mind with potential collaborators. The path to success requires more than just setting up a business; it demands passion, dedication, and relentless hard work. Join us and discover strategies to elevate your voiceover business and rock your business like a true boss! 00:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey Boss, talent Anne Ganguzza here with a quick shout out to those who are a little freaked out about marketing VLBoss Blast is your secret weapon making your marketing manageable. Your voice deserves to be heard. Join us at vlbosscom and start your marketing campaign today.  00:22 - Testimonial (Announcement) I've just finished listening to Creative Brilliance with Improv, nne and Law, and all I can say is yes, ladies, improv is absolutely one of my favorite activities, and the life of the pre-life is real. Remembering that the run-in line, or your lead lead in line, does not only exist at the beginning of your read, but throughout, it's a critical activity. The running conversation that has to happen in your head truly makes a difference. So, ladies, thank you so much. I greatly appreciate it.  01:02 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, anne Ganguza.  01:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)  Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am here with my boss superpower business buddy, Lau Lapides. Hey, Lau, how are you today?  01:38 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Annie, fabulous, how are you I?  01:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) missed you. I know it's been a while it has been too long Lau, and so I asked how are you? How's it going? I mean, what have you been working on?  01:46 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Well, let me just say this I haven't had a booking in a while.  01:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Really yes. Well, how often are you auditioning?  01:54 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) I'm auditioning every day for like an hour, maybe even two, and I'm waiting for my agents and I have a few agents to send me things and they haven't.  02:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I'm really upset. Well, I think maybe it's time for us to sit down and have a talk about getting real and really talking about what does it take to get work in this industry. I don't think. Maybe waiting for your agents and you know this as an agent is necessarily something that you want to be doing. I think let's talk about how we can be proactive as actors, because I hear that a lot. I mean, thank you for that little role play Lau.   02:31 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) I was just about to say. I actually spoke with a coaching client this week who gave me that exact conversation and I wanted to role. Play that with you because it's common.  02:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now I have so many students that talk to me and say are we ready to make that demo? I mean, why do I need more sessions? I'm like if you could do some more homework I give homework, I'm a homework girl and so they could be practicing scripts like an audition, like auditions, every single day. And yet at the end of a week they might've recorded one or two. And then they're like well, why am I not any closer to my demo? I'm like well, how much work have you put into it?  03:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So yeah, that's an excellent, excellent topic.  03:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) What does it take? How much do we have to put into our careers? Yeah, get out what you put in.  03:19 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Well, listen, you're taking the words right out of my mouth. Like we're sisters, east West Coast sisters. I was just about to say you get out of it what you put into it.  03:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It sounds so cliche, but I'm telling you, I'm saying that more than ever now, and the truth is.  03:35 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) The truth is we're even grinding more these days for less at times, because of the saturation of competition, so you just have to put that into your equation.  03:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I like that you brought that up, because now we've got evolving moving parts too, right. I mean, 10 years ago, the industry was a particular way. There were so many people in the industry, but I'll tell you what it's more saturated than ever. I'm not here to say that there isn't work, because there's a ton of work out there. However, my goodness, you have to realize that and I say this how many times have I said this? On how many podcasts Lau when we go to school and learn a skill, I mean we practice that skill for hours. We go to school for years, and so I don't understand why people that come into this industry think that they can just immediately go out and book work as if they've been doing it for years.  04:32 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Well, you know, that's very interesting. You say that, annie, because I'm seeing especially an older set and some have been in it for three, four, five, six years and feel like veterans. Three, four, five, six years and feel like veterans and to some degree they are veterans say, okay, where's my payoff, okay, where's my semi-retirement, so to speak, like it should just be coming in like mailbox money and I don't have to do much, when the truth is, if you look at and I always go back to, like the biggies, the big box stores, they're running advertising, they're running sales, they're thinking up new campaigns. What aren't they doing right? And they've been around for 50, 60, 70 years. Think about that. It's because their competition is shifting, the generations are shifting and they really have to keep up with those tides. They can't sit back and say and they really have to keep up with those tides. They can't sit back and say, oh, but we're Target and we've been around now for 60 years.  05:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, you have some competition now, especially online, and so yeah, I'm glad that you brought that up because it affects everyone. It doesn't just affect new people coming into the industry. It affects veterans in the industry as well, because if they're not moving with the times and they're not paying attention and their eyeballs aren't open and they aren't thinking outside the box these days and that includes, maybe working with different coaches on different genres because every little bit, even though you might be a polished actor and you've been doing this for years I mean, I'm a lifelong learner I think you can always get something from more education, and so I really feel as though it's important for actors to continue their education and continue their quest for thinking outside the box. Days, voiceover industry because it is truly the whole digital online thing has really just disrupted disrupted what used to be, and we need to be prepared for that and we need to be able to roll with the changes, roll with the punches, so to speak that's a perfect word you're using.  06:37 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) That's like the new word disruptor be a disruptor. Well, I'm going to disrupt you right now and I'm going to say you do have to work harder. And that's not welcomed by a lot of people who are being brought up in this ideology of work-life balance. Well, I'm telling you, when you're building business and you're grinding in business, there is not the work-life balance that you would like to have. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. You just cannot as much as we try to generationally. And I'm not saying don't take care of yourself or don't be good to yourself and be healthy, but I am saying you will have somewhat of an imbalanced life as you're building business and sustaining and keeping business, because you have to grind, you have to work really hard.  07:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You made a big distinction. I'm going to tag on to that and say that this is your own business and so, yeah, that only needing to put in the work for so many hours per day and not necessarily doing more than that, I don't know if that holds water when you are running your own business, because in reality, it's not like you're depending on someone to give you that paycheck every week or every two weeks. Now you're the one that's going out and doing everything and generating the leads, and so I mean absolutely I'm not saying you can't work nine to five if that's what you choose. However, if you choose that, understand that there's consequences for that, especially when you're first starting out. I mean, in order to get the work, you've got to generate the leads, and a lot of times I mean I think people have to know that they probably have to work harder than they thought to generate those leads.  08:11 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) I think that's really it. Everybody's like well.  08:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm not booking. I'm not booking. I have great demos and now I'm not booking and I'm like well, okay, let's just talk about the first thing. I asked you about auditioning. So, auditioning, how often are you auditioning? How many auditions? Now, I know if people aren't paid to plays, they might get penalized if they audition too much. However, there is a multitude of opportunities out there and I'm not saying you should spend eight hours a day auditioning. However, you've got to go out there and search the opportunities. If you're not auditioning, you should be marketing to people who can give you opportunities. Right?  08:42 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Right. And how many of these folks too, when you really dig a little deep and dive in there, annie, they're not keeping up with their current connections. Oftentimes they haven't flagged them, they're not in their calendar. Maybe they did an audition, a showcase, whatever, a year ago. They haven't been in touch with them. It's this ideology of I'm still waiting for things to come to me rather than proactively going out and getting them. And the building and sustaining of relationships, as you and I know, is really about reminding. It's like think of yourself.  09:18 Top of mind. Hey, I'm here. Yes, think of yourself in terms of advertising. Right, Advertisers have to show you something 10, 15, 20, 25 times in a day, maybe even more right? Well, we do too.  09:29 We have to remind people that we're here, remind them what we do, remind them that we have a relationship together. That's on me, that's on you, that's on the onus of us, right? And you and I are great examples. We've been in our businesses for 15, 16, 17 years. Now you and I are texting each other on a Saturday in the middle of the night, absolutely Now.  09:50 True, we're on different time zones, but we're still obsessively up in the middle of the night thinking, ooh, why don't we do this on Wednesday? And what's next? Exactly so isn't there a part of that like, if we take out the obsessive quality, which I understand, I'm obsessive To your audience, I am, and I admit it but isn't there a part of it that's so fun, that's so much joy, that's like you get a kick out of thinking up new ideas and executing them and going after six people that you haven't talked to in a few months, and I feel like it, authentically, is missing from a lot of people's like persona to do that. They feel like, oh, where's my job and where's my money and where's my credit? Versus where's my process, yeah, yeah.  10:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that you brought that up.  10:40 You need to give a reminder to these people.  10:42 I mean, that's the whole, and I know that people are scared about spamming, but, honestly, if you take a look at the trends now in marketing and email marketing, especially on the retail level right, because I joined a lot of mailing lists and I always encourage people to join mailing lists for companies that they want to work for, so that you can understand how they market and then you can learn a lot from other companies marketing really Retail wisewise I get reminders, I get text messages and I'm trying to think outside the box about okay, how can I SMS text my clients, which is now becoming an option for a lot of the new marketing methods out there.  11:21 I mean, I know the Wix backend now enables you to SMS remind people or text them within your sales promotions, and that's kind of a cool thing that people can, of course, opt out of, but I'm doing a lot of my business via text. So for me, my brain is thinking how can I keep connected with my clients right Via text, so that it's not intrusive, but yet says, hey, I'm here, by the way, and kind of spark that top of mind where they're like. Oh yeah, ann would be great for this job.  11:53 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yes, yes, yes, I mean anything you can be thinking about, even one new methodology that you bring into your business. It doesn't have to be every single day, it doesn't have to be all day long, it's just one new concept. One new idea can change the whole face of what you do and really how you work. I oftentimes say to folks that we're coaching do you know, if you reach out to one new person or one new company a day, which for you and I is not a whole lot, but for someone else it might be a lot to take on? One, that's five a week in terms of work days, that's 20 in a month, yeah, 20. And then you say, but Lau, I can do three or four in a day. And I say, well, then do it, because then you're going to be 100 prospects richer by the end of the month. Absolutely.  12:42 And why aren't you doing that? And you know what the reason is. I'll tell you one of the firewalls reasoning behind why they're not doing it is, I'm afraid, Laura. Why are you afraid? I'm afraid. I don't know what to say to them. Yeah, yeah.  12:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, I say, let's start off by just being human and making sure that you have done your research on them so that you can make a good introduction and that you're not going to be wasting their time by giving them like paragraphs and paragraphs of all about you, you, you. But really it's got to be about how you can help them.  13:15 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yes, and one of the things that I can tell you I live my whole life this way that books jobs is your energy and your tone and just like, ironically, how, as an actor, you would read and think about what's my tone for this commercial, this e-learning copy? What's my tone when I reach out to someone, when I talk to someone, and you get hired for your energy and you get fired for your energy or lack thereof.  13:45 And you have to rely sometimes on your personality and say you know that books a lot of jobs if you're likable.  13:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Can I be completely honest and say that your personality, when it comes out in your read right, that's what makes you unique, that's your point of view right, and that's what connects us as humans to each other. And so people always say well, how do I sound, how does my voice sound? Am I cut out for this industry? I'm like no, it's not really about that. It's about being able to bring yourself to the party, and how many times have we heard that said over and over?  14:19 again and I just want to say it differently, so that maybe people like, all of a sudden, I want that light bulb to go off because honestly, it's that innate, like non-touchable thing that when we meet somebody and we say, god, I like her, like when I met you, I was like man, I like that girl, I felt the same way about you going?  14:37 on and thus began this relationship, and so I can tell people when I do consults all the time I've got a few coming up after this but they'll say do I sound like I can make it in this industry? I'm like, but in reality it's all about bringing yourself to that read, that special uniqueness that is you, and if you can develop the skills to allow yourself and the permission to allow yourself to do that, that's what's going to connect with the listener at the other end and that's what's going to make you successful, right? Is that connection with?  15:05 the listener and, of course, all the other stuff should just come by the wayside, right? It's kind of like we're storytellers. Well, how do I tell that story when the script is written in this way? Well, you have to create that story right, Create those opportunities right. And how are you going to lock in those opportunities? By being your human, wonderful, beautiful, awesome self and just connecting.  15:27 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) So wait a second, annie. Are you hitting on something deeper now? Are you really talking, maybe, about the fact that there is a true and honest lack of self-confidence, which may even be deeper than that, a lack of self-esteem and a lack of self-value, because it really does challenge us to say if we're reaching out to someone, there's a reason and we have to share who we are and what we do with that person.  15:54 If you don't know who you are and what you do, then there's a real lack on your end that you have to go and dive deep. You have to go coach, get therapy, go meditate, whatever you need to do to find that the end user, that audience, they do whatever you need to do to find that the end user, that audience, they do not care, they're not there for that. They're not there to build you up, they're not there to give you confidence, they're not there.  16:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They're there for you to help them and they're not there seeking you out necessarily, right? So, again, the work that needs to be done for success in this industry, especially today, you have to work your butt off. I'm just saying, even for us, that we've been in this business for how many years, we know how hard we have to work, and now we're working even harder, right?  16:36 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) But, annie why is that a bad thing? Why is that being given a bad name? Why is that something that is sort of shoved under the rug, like, oh, we don't want to do that. We want to work less hours in the week, we want to take more vacations, and I'm thinking, well, it's all well and good, but don't you want to build a business? Sure, and to build a business from the ground up and sustain it, especially during hard times, economic times, whatever. During war, you got to work really hard. That's the old school work ethic you and I have.  17:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, yes, and I'm going to say that, okay, do you have to work that hard 24-7? Well, I mean, I do just because it's an ethic, but honestly, like and we're totally obsessed.  17:17 Yeah but besides that, but in reality look, you can be super talented, you can get a great campaign right, but every person that I know that has really made it in this industry that has been uber successful. You can never count on that client being there tomorrow. And so, even though you might have a great gig and a great contract and it's been ongoing and you're making good money, I don't think any of these professionals out here have ever stopped looking or cultivating or continually growing. That's what makes them successful. So you can't just necessarily just say, well, I've got my client, I did great this year and so therefore I can kind of rest a little bit and maybe not have to work so hard. I mean, once in a while, of course, you need to take your time off, but in reality you're constantly looking for that next client, constantly, and that doesn't just happen in an hour a day.  18:12 Now, for those people that are working right now and you know again, I always tell people don't give up your day job. Yet, you know, until you find out that this is something you're truly passionate about and that you truly want to pursue, because the time required to generate those leads, the time required to audition, the time required to do all the things that is necessary to build and grow your business, not just exist and have a business. Okay, I set up my business. I have my demos, here I am. That's not enough. That is this tiny little tip of the iceberg, do you know what?  18:43 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) that reminds me of, annie, when we had brick and mortars pre-COVID and we did most of our work pre-COVID in brick and mortar, that was like, okay, I set up my shop, I set up my physical location, I had my coffee maker there, we had our computers there, we had okay, we paid the heat, we had toilet paper. It sounds ridiculous, but you have to think of all of that. Yeah, yeah, you have a brick and mortar, all right. How come I'm not successful? Yeah, mm-hmm. Oh, because I haven't started the work. Yeah, I haven't started. The work was just preliminary. Yeah, the, the house, there's a ton preliminary. But to actually build a house, that's a whole other set of things, right? So if you're doing your due diligence by training and getting your demos and setting up your booth, you get big applause from me, you get big kudos from me because you beat out half the competition already. Yeah, absolutely. But don't think that that's the work. That's not the work of owning a business, that's just the brick and mortar, if you will.  19:40 Yeah, absolutely the setup of the business, and the setup is always changing and upgrading too. Yeah, now you've got to work the business.  19:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now you've got to work it. You've got the business.  19:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now you've got to work the business.  19:52 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) And you and I are workers Like we're worker bees, we like working, we like the validation I mean. Look, my mother in real life is 85 years old.  20:01 - Intro (Announcement) Guys, don't tell her that I told you that she's amazing.  20:06 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) She's a licensed family therapist and she works still full-time, 85 years old. She says I will never not work. It's my identity. I want to be helping people, I want to be giving to the world, I want to be making money, I want to be this and that there's this sense of like kicking back and going what's coming to me? I'm 85, now what's coming? No, no. Taking on new clients and seeing how she can help them solve their problems, which are more complicated these days by the way, right, that was a key thing that you said was that she wants to help people.  20:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So it's not that she doesn't deserve a rest or she doesn't deserve to kick back at this point in her life, but it brings her joy. She doesn't want to. Yeah, exactly, and a lot of people feel that way.  20:51 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yeah, a lot of people want to be in the world. They want to be a part of the world that spoke in the wheel, so to speak, but be a part of a large community, which we are, a very large global community but really be doing our own unique part of that, our own unique feel to that. And you and I I mean I take on pro bono projects, I take on projects that I'm giving back. Why? Because I want to. It fills my soul, it fills my spirit. I love working with maybe younger people coming up in the industry or people who don't have a budget that really need help. I like that. Listen, if huge civil rights attorneys can do that, I can do that too. Yeah, absolutely.  21:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right.  21:34 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) I'm not saying to work for free. I'm just saying the point is what's your process? Why are you doing it? You know, take a step back and say if I want to have it easy and I don't want to work too hard, then ask yourself a more important question why am I doing this?  21:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Then get a job and work for someone else.  21:52 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yeah, get a paycheck every week, right.  21:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Don't expect to come into voiceover land and have that same kind of mindset where that's going to work.  22:02 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yeah, go be a middle manager at Chipotle and you're all set, you got the good food, you got the salary, you got the benefits. It's a whole different mindset about things, very much so you know I mean my dad, who is an entrepreneur. He always said to me you know, there are two people in the world, one is the employee and the employee mindset, and one is the employer.  22:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, and they're two different mindsets. Absolutely, absolutely. We are an employer mindset. Yes, we have to be an employer mindset. So, look, this doesn't mean right for the bosses out there. Well, how much time right? Well, I mean, for us I work a 16-hour day, but am I in the booth for 16 hours? No, I am not.  22:44 I am marketing, I am creating content for marketing, I am reaching out to clients and, of course, I'm doing stuff in my studio as well. I'm auditioning. I'm auditioning for my agents, I'm auditioning for rosters. I mean hours, and so I know how hard it is and I will speak to working a full-time job and then just seeing if voiceover is. For me, that's the hard part about doing it part-time. I almost thought that doing voiceover part-time was harder than doing it full-time. I mean, the risk is greater when you quit your job and go full-time into voiceover, especially financially, if you don't have that cushion and I don't recommend that you do that if you don't have a financial cushion, do not quit your day job, but if you're working full-time and you're doing voiceover, you've got to work so hard.  23:28 Oh my gosh, so hard You've got your nine to five or whatever that might be during the day, and then every spare moment of the day has to be working on voiceover. And that's the hardest, especially when you're starting because you're practicing, you're getting better at acting. Hopefully you're coaching with somebody, you're working towards a demo or you've gotten a demo. So now, if you've gotten your demos, then when you get home from your day job, you've got to be marketing right and you've got to find your leads. You've got to create content. You've got to create content. You've got so many things to do in those hours and you've got a family to take care of, so it is excruciatingly tiring when you are doing this with a full-time job. I get that, guys. But again, if this is something that you want to pursue and this is the life that you are looking for, that's just what you've got to do to make it work. I mean to be quite honest. I mean otherwise.  24:19 I have so many people that kind of half-heartedly put their time in Well, they'll do the coaching, they'll get the demo and they're working full time. But then they're like well, but I haven't gotten a job yet and I'm out of pay to play. I haven't gotten a job yet. Well, you've got to audition your tush off. You've got to market your tush off at this point, and that means hours a day. That doesn't necessarily mean like five minutes a day, but if you can do something every day, I would say do something voiceover related every single day. That, to me, is something that says you are dedicated to making this work, to making this be successful. And it's tougher than ever these days. You know you're fighting a lot of people in the industry.  25:00 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) You're fighting. And I would say too, as you said earlier, annie, do the homework, do the research, don't come in cold. Talk to people, see what they do in the career. We used to call those internships or apprenticeships. Well, you kind of have to do your own.  25:14 You don't want to try to make a living on a scaffold 50 flights up. If you're scared of heights, yeah Right. You have to know what the occupational hazards are. You have to understand what the hours put in, what the dangers are, what financial issues you could run into. You really have to be smart up front. Rather than saying, well, why aren't I making money? That to me is a very sort of novice-y green question. To ask if you've done some of the homework and talk to working professionals who have been very successful. They will all tell you. Even the most successful people who are making livings doing animation or they're a series regular on a TV show. They'll say, listen, I know when I book something I better save that money, I better invest that money, I better do whatever, because I may not work for a year.  26:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I may not get another decent booking for a year, and I have to know that I have to like plan for that.  26:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So, bosses, go out there and get the work. Go out there and do it, spend the time, put in the hours, and I think you're going to see results. I mean, it's as simple as that Put in the work, you're going to see results. It's probably a lot more than you think, yep. The more you put in, the more you'll get out. Absolutely there, it is All right. There, it is Great. Big shout out. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys, bosses, have an amazing week and go out there and get it. Go out there and get it. We love you. All right, bye, bye.  26:46 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at VOobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.  27:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Five, six, 7, 8. I'm trying to go faster. I'm trying to go 5, 6, 7, 8. I know I think it's waiting for me. That's probably what it is. I am waiting for you. There's a delay, guys. There's a delay, alright, wait.   

How do you determine your worth as a voice actor, especially when you're just starting out? Join Anne and Tom as we unravel the complexities of setting rates in the voiceover industry. We challenge the misconception that newbies should work for less and emphasize the need for a solid base studio session fee. From understanding SAG-AFTRA and Global Voice Acting Academy (GVAA) rate guides to navigating the nuances of broadcast and non-broadcast work, we provide practical insights that empower you to establish your value right from the get-go. Efficiency and quality are your best allies in commanding higher rates and securing repeat clients. Learn the essential strategies for managing your career, from cultivating new leads and staying updated on market trends to understanding client churn. We'll share actionable advice on how to keep your pipeline full and stay ahead of the curve in this ever-evolving industry. 00:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey boss listeners. Are you ready to turn your voiceover career goals into achievements? With my personalized coaching and demo production, I'm here to help you reach new milestones. You know you're already part of a boss community that strives for the very best. Let's elevate that. Your success is my next project. Find out more at anneganguzzacom.  00:26 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next project. Find out more at anganguzacom. It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. The boss, a VO boss.  00:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Hey, hey, everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguza, and I am here on the Real Boss series with my co-host, Tom Dheere. Hey, Tom Dheere, how are you?  00:57 - Tom Dheere (Host) Hello Anne, how are you doing?  00:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Real boss. Yeah, hey, Tom, as a real boss. How's your year going? By the way, it's gone by so fast already.  01:06 - Tom Dheere (Host) First quarter gone.  01:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, first quarter and tax season is already coming.  01:10 - Tom Dheere (Host) Well, I mean, we filed, I filed and I got paid already. So yeah, oh, very, very nice.  01:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So, speaking of numbers, you're a numbers guy, so how's your year going?  01:20 - Tom Dheere (Host) It's funny because I just did my first quarter analytics financially and I think I'm like literally like $300 ahead of first quarter 2023.  01:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Congrats.  01:33 - Tom Dheere (Host) Can't complain about that.  01:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Being ahead is always a plus, always a plus and myself as well, and I'm ecstatic that I got paid already from the government, so that's good. I'm going to reinvest that in my business. But I love talking real numbers, like real money. So I thought it would be good to talk about real money, because so many times I have students who just get into this industry and they get that first job where somebody's interested in their voice and then they panic and they say, oh my God, they've come back to me and they want to know what I'll charge for this job and I thought we should actually. Let's talk about that. Let's talk about those numbers. How do people come up with those numbers?  02:13 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. It's funny because, like we could just say, well, just go look at the SAG-AFTRA contract if you're union, or go look at the Global Voice Acting website if you're non-union, and this will be the world's shortest podcast episode.  02:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's it. Gvaa rate guide and SegAftra Boom and you're done.  02:28 - Tom Dheere (Host) But, as you well know, it's a lot more complicated than that. But I want to do a little bit of myth busting real quick. A lot of voice actors coming into the industry think hierarchical. They think vertical, as in. Since they're just entering the voiceover industry, they should get paid the lowest and the people who have been in here the longest should get paid the highest. And that is not necessarily true. I mean, if there's one thing I've learned in the 25 plus years I've been doing this is that the last gig I got isn't always the worst paying gig I've got, and then the next gig I've got isn't always the best paying gig that I've got.  03:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It fluctuates, it just does right. I mean, before the rate guides. Well, I think there was always SAG-AFTRA, but SAG-AFTRA mostly concentrated on things that were national and broadcast right, and so national, regional, local, anything that was broadcast. So what was a girl to do back in the early years when I was there trying to figure out what do I charge? And literally it set myself into a panic and I always, tom, had to pretty much just kind of wing it and guess what? I think that that's even still true today.  03:44 - Tom Dheere (Host) I mean, now we have guides that we can look at as benchmarks, but in reality every job is absolutely different, especially when you're talking non-broadcast rates, so broadcast rates, radio, tv, cable, internet, streaming right, all the front-facing stuff, where there's going to be a session fee, which is how much you get paid to record the voiceover audio files, and then the usage fee, which is how much you get paid for giving license, because you're literally licensing your voice to the voice seekers for them to use your audio files in a certain period of time and in a certain area.  04:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely.  04:31 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. So that's broadcast in the broadest sense, for lack of a better term, and just by giving your listeners that basic explanation. That's what sets up this avalanche of other questions. It's like how big of a market, how many listeners, how long are you getting paid for? It's, in simplest terms, the more listeners or viewers, the more you get paid, and the longer that they're going to air this spot, on whatever medium they decide, the more you get paid. So the question is where do you start with that? So actually, that leads me to a question. Anne, do you have like a turning?  05:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) on the lights fee. Do you have a base studio session fee? Yes, I absolutely do. For me to step into the studio, I have a certain fee and a lot of my work is non-broadcast. So if I am doing any work that's broadcast. Typically that's either handled by my agent, right? Who's negotiating that for me? Which is why it's awesome to have agents, because they handle that and they're always fighting for the most part, if you've got a good agent for your best interests.  05:35 If it's not an agent fighting for the rates, then I have to go to a rate guide to start somewhere and figure out what that is. But for non-broadcast, absolutely. I have a rate for stepping into my studio and that is my studio session fee, which.  05:51 I try to equate everything non-broadcast to the same equivalent on the broadcast side, because these days, with synthetic voices right, I want to make sure that nobody's going to be using my voice for a purpose that it wasn't intended for, and so I will actually put and I'm probably getting ahead of myself on my non-broadcast, I will put an actual length of time, whereas previously this was not something we talked about in perpetuity in another episode. But I want to absolutely address that. For non-broadcast, typically it was you gave somebody a rate for usage of that file and it was forever. And now, with synthetic voices and the fear of getting our voices stolen or used for purposes other than intended, I now put in for non-broadcast. I put in a length of time that they can use that for as a safeguard.  06:42 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right and for certain things I mean there's explainers and corporate and e-learning and stuff like that.  06:47 Most of that stuff isn't evergreen anyway, because, like an explainer video, for example, the company's branding may change, the name of the company may change, the product, the service, the widget may change, so they're going to need a new explainer video.  07:03 If they have just like one explainer video which is parked on their website and their social media channels just saying we are this company, this is what we do, in two, three years, maybe five at most, they're going to need a new video and they may go to you and they may go to somebody else. But when you see non-broadcast in perpetuity, you want to be smart about it. You want to give it some form of shelf life, and that's a big part of this conversation, anne is how do you communicate this? How do you educate your clients? By explaining, like look, in a few years you're going to need a new one of these anyway, because I've noticed that for like non-broadcast, most of them want it in perpetuity, not because they want to synthesize your voice or because they want to hose you financially, it's just because they just don't want to be bothered. They just want to do this and it's done, and it's there and now they can go focus on other things.  07:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, they say that it's theirs.  07:49 - Tom Dheere (Host) And they say it's theirs. For non-broadcast genres there's a whole bunch of different ways to charge. Sometimes you charge by the finished minute. If it's an audio book, you charge by the finished hour. If it's long form e-learning modules, you could get paid by the word.  08:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly, I mean, those are the big ones there used to be per page but I don't remember the last time I got paid per page and you know what. I'll be completely honest, tom, I don't remember the last time I quoted an e-learning module on a per word basis, because most of the companies or most of the people that I'm working with I'm not on a roster that is paying on a per word basis or working with an instructional e-learning company, that usually is on a per word basis.  08:31 Whenever I get e-learning clients, I always price them on a per hour, per finished hour basis and I get paid the same for e-learning as I do for corporate pretty much.  08:41 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yeah, I mean they're both informational, non-broadcast, so in the broadest brushstrokes they're pretty much the same genre-wise, with the exception that e-learning is usually used to train students and new employees and corporate is for internal communications, like an HR video or a memo, or here's how you pick your employee benefits, and stuff like that.  09:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Or even a corporate narration video. That's what I meant. Corporate training and e-learning to me is the same. Do you know what I mean? Corporate training and academic e-learning rates are the same to me, except most educational institutions can't afford what a company can Right.  09:15 It's harder for them to get the money, but I think one thing that I want to emphatically tell the bosses out there that are just beginning for non-broadcast is that really every job is unique and we don't always have a rate guide to go to, and it's up to you as a business person to understand what would be an acceptable market rate for that and price it accordingly to that and also know your worth because, again, like you had mentioned before, you think that just because you're newer, you should charge less, and that is probably not the. That is not the way I would be thinking about it at all as a new person into the industry. Because you're being paid for your voice right, you're being paid for your voice. You can get just as much as I can or Tom can for that voice. It is your business.  10:11 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. Here's the thing about that is that a lot of my students immediately devalue themselves. Yeah, and you shouldn't do that to yourself, because, think about it on the other side of the equation is that if you're a voice seeker, do you care how long the voice actors have been doing voiceover Really? I mean in the abstract. Well, of course we would like an experienced narrator, but when it comes down to the audition, within two, three seconds, either they like you or you don't. It doesn't matter how long you've been doing voiceover.  10:43 Now there is obviously a correlation between the ability to tell a story effectively and how long you've been doing this. But ultimately, if you've got quality training from Anne and a quality demo and that demo is submitted and you've been trained by Anne to audition effectively for projects, I'd say 90, 95% of the time, it's a level playing field. Regardless of how long you've been trained by Anne to audition effectively for projects, I'd say 90, 95% of the time, it's a level playing field regardless of how long you've been in the industry, and I agree with you there, completely agree with you.  11:10 So you take that data point and then you extrapolate that. Well, if that's the case, then that means everybody should get paid the same who's auditioning for that, because if one of my students auditions for an e-learning project and I audition for an e-learning project, if I book it, I shouldn't necessarily get paid more than they should.  11:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I agree with that, completely agree with that. Again, they're paying for the voice. They're not necessarily paying for the experience. However, in dealing with the client, your level of experience might have a part in it because after you get the job, in order to maybe keep the job or have the person keep coming back, that's where your experience and customer service comes into play and that's where I feel that you can command. And again, you can command just as much if you can give them a good experience.  12:00 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. This is what I tell my students is that your talent will book you the first gig with a client. Your project management skills will book you the next gig with the same client, because if me and a student are auditioning for the same gig and they book it. Great, they should get the same that I get, but then they better deliver the goods, communicate the retake policy, understand how to use their DAW, understand how to edit and deliver the audio files, being able to take direction if it's a live setting those are skills that.  12:31 Yes, there is a correlation between your experience level and the ability to execute good project management, but if you work with Anne or if you work with myself, part of our jobs is to teach you that and how to be able to be professional and communicate effectively and do all those things, because it's not just getting the first gig, it's getting the next gig and the next gig and the next gig without auditioning.  12:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly. And it's funny because it reminds me of a conversation I had in my Voices in Podcasting Clubhouse the other day with Jodi Krangel and Cheryl Holling, where we got into this discussion about acting right, because a lot of coaches these days will say it's more important now more than ever to have your acting skills so that you can separate yourself from the synthetic voices. And Jodi said you know, I don't know if I'm completely convinced about that, because in reality it also has to do with your customer service. And I'm like, yeah, well, you've got to get the gig first right, which is your auditioning talents and your performance talents and your acting talents are going to get you the gig.  13:34 Then what's going to help you keep it is going to be that customer service that business aspect that you just mentioned, in order to keep them coming back and then commanding that good rate, moving forward.  13:48 - Tom Dheere (Host) And that's when it comes into so for the audition, to book the audition it's about your talent and your storytelling ability. After that, it's about your ability to manage the project effectively. Because, also, if you can demonstrate that you can deliver the goods and do it quickly and do it right, then, yeah, you're in a better position to command higher rates and slash. Or you're in a position to just get more bookings without having to audition for this end client that you got that initial gig with and other end clients at this production company or recording studio or ad agency or marketing firm or political production company or explainer production company has they're like yeah, you work with Ann. Ann delivered the goods on this series of explainer videos. She can do that for you and your series of explainer videos too. So it's not just about getting as much as you can for the project in question, it's about delivering the goods so you can get paid over and over and, over and over again.  14:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And aren't those the best jobs?  14:46 - Tom Dheere (Host) Well, we all want regular clients, like everybody, everybody, in every part of the country.  14:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You don't have to audition for them, that just takes out a complete amount of steps. And it's funny because I think for me and for my business right. I'm always telling people you always have to cultivate new leads, because if you've been in the business for a long time, undoubtedly you'll probably have repeat clients. Right, tom? You must have lots and lots and lots of repeat clients Many, many, many, many, many repeat clients and me too, and I'm grateful for them.  15:10 but I always have to be cultivating the new clients as well, and that means I have to really continually assess and understand rates and what I should charge and understand my worth in the current market, in the current market.  15:24 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yes, my friend Adam Werner, audiobook narrator, fellow FAFCon attendee. He taught me about client churn, which is every quarter. I look at all of the voiceover gigs that I booked and all the clients that I worked with and the genres that I booked and how I got the gig whether it was through my representation, whether it was through an online casting site and whether it was through my self-marketing strategies and I look to see how many new clients did I gain and I keep a very close eye on how many new clients I'm getting, because if I'm getting a regular stream of new clients, that means my marketing strategies are working well, yes, yes and your marketing strategies.  16:03 Is your self-marketing strategy? Cold calls, cold emails, indirect marketing, social media, blogging, whatever. But also, am I just auditioning better through my representation? Am I auditioning better through my online casting sites? Because clients are just going to naturally go away, they're going to retire, they're going to go out of business, they're going to change their business model.  16:23 They're going to hire their nephew who wants to do musical theater, to do their phone greets. And now you're out. Ai is going to replace and already has replaced some of us voice actors. For certain clients, that's just going to naturally happen. So you always want to keep the till full.  16:39 Yep, yep, absolutely absolutely want to keep the till full, yep, yep, absolutely, absolutely, and making sure that you understand what you're worth in today's current landscape on a per word, per finished minute, per finished hour, per studio hour. You always want to keep an eye on that, yeah. So how do you keep an eye on that, anne? How do you keep an eye on current rates? What are your go-tos? What are your habits?  16:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, my current rates. I actually make sure that I check the rate guides frequently because they're continually being updated by people more than me out in the industry. Back in the day I was a core contributor to the GVAA rate guide and I think you were too Tom like e-learning and corporate and telephony and medical and those were the rates that I helped with on that rate guide. I make sure that I'm continually assessing those rate guides, but I'm also assessing the market. I mean, I work in the market and so I do a lot of research on the client and I try to understand, like, where else could they be going for potential business or another voice, and how can I remain competitive with that voice? And so how do I keep myself current? It's continual research, really, and assessment with the rate guide and some of it, honestly, is just pulling it out of the air. That is really what happens Sometimes. It's nowhere to be found and you just have to use your best judgment. Always use your negotiation 101 tactics on asking what is the budget?  18:06 That's like the most important first question I think you can ask a client.  18:10 - Tom Dheere (Host) Do they have a?  18:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) budget, and if they have a budget, can you work within that?  18:13 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, my go-to's is just looking at my agent casting notices and looking at my online casting site casting notices yes, yes, yes.  18:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Market assessment notices. And looking at my online casting site casting notices Market assessment.  18:23 - Tom Dheere (Host) Market assessment and what Ann does and what I do. You should be doing both of those. You should be doing both of those because when you get a casting notice from your representation, it's been pre-negotiated. They've already gone through the rigmarole of negotiating with that particular client, so what you get is most likely the finished product of what the actual rate is going to be for that project. So that will let you know, because, along with that casting notice, in addition to the rates, is the specs, the session fee, the usage fee, the market, the exclusivity and conflicts and the rate of usage, how long it's going to be used for. So you can use that to greatly inform your broadcast rate sheets. And then for non-broadcast, looking at the online casting sites and just noticing trends in e-learning versus corporate, versus explainer, versus telephony, versus medical versus voice of.  19:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) God. And in order to do that, in order to do that, do you need to be a member, tom? I know, because some of them will post job rates without you necessarily actually being a paid member if you're a free member, but I believe you've got to be a paid member to get that information these days.  19:33 - Tom Dheere (Host) For places like Voice 123, I believe you won't have access to the casting notices unless you're on the tier, because the only way you'll get them is if they make it to your inbox, and the only way it makes it to your inbox is having a subscription tier, unless you have a free site, a free membership and some casting notices come in and some say here's the jobs you missed and here's the money.  19:53 Right, voicescom, I think you can run searches but you can't audition unless you're a paid member. But you know what? There's other places to go. I mean you could look at Backstage and Badalgo and Casting Call Club, even Twitter. Now Casting Call Club and Twitter, there tend to be lower no-pay jobs, which is why a lot of voice actors early in their journey go to Casting Call Club because it gives themselves a great opportunity to kind of develop their audition skills, their rate negotiation skills, build up their portfolio, resume, genre awareness and confidence, all of which are extremely, extremely important things. But if you're able to hit the ground running and you have more resources at your disposal which I've got, a pay-to-play site like a voice123 or voicescom you can get a much better idea of what current trends in the rate structure is for voiceover gigs.  20:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And you know what's so interesting. What I'm hearing from you, interestingly enough, is not just understanding the rate guide and then understanding the principles of negotiation and what you're worth, but also your audition techniques, right. Auditioning techniques, it's a first impression, right. And so if you're looking to command a particular rate for a job, even if you don't get a job that you've auditioned for right, you're submitting auditions into your agent and you're just, you're nailing time after time after time, or you're nailing the auditions in the pay to play, right, you're getting consistent in people's minds and that is building your value.  21:16 And it's interesting because when people come to me and they say I want to get a corporate demo or I to get a medical demo or I want an e-learning demo, I've, over the years, evolved into the type of coach that is really coaching how to do the audition to get the gig first, because, honestly, we all can do that. Read, that's a really pleasant, nice read. You know that's reading the words, but it takes acting skills to really tell the story. And so I really work on building up students' storytelling skills and acting skills and that, I feel, is going to command you the higher rate.  21:51 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yes, I've got some numbers for you.  21:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I know you love your numbers, I do, I do, I do. Tell me Okay.  21:56 - Tom Dheere (Host) In 2019, I auditioned roughly 400 times. Okay 1% of my voiceover revenue came from representation. 18% came from casting sites. I wasn't on any paid casting sites back then. Fast forward to all of 2019, 5 years later, 2023, I did 1,854 auditions. My online casting site revenue percentage grew from 18% to 50%.  22:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wow, that's incredible.  22:26 - Tom Dheere (Host) My representation revenue percentage went from 1% to 12%. Wow, that's incredible, and my overall revenue increased by 20%.  22:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And now, what would you say that was due to then?  22:39 - Tom Dheere (Host) Auditioning Auditioning right and auditioning skills.  22:43 Getting my reps in on specifically Voice123. And you can hear, if you haven't watched our casting site VO Boss Video, go check that out. You'll hear me talk about Voice123 in severe detail, about my voiceover journey, the fact that I was auditioning so much on pay-to-play sites I was just getting better at auditioning. I was auditioning so much on pay-to-play sites I was just getting better at auditioning, which meant when I was getting those agent and manager-driven auditions, I was just getting better at auditioning there too and as a result, I booked more gigs and I booked better gigs.  23:12 So, if nothing else, don't put all of these things into separate buckets or silos, pass judgment on them and ignore them, or covet one and ignore the other. It's through data and money I've shown that the online casting site portal and the representation portal are clearly linked. There was clearly a synergistic relationship between the quality and quantity of my auditions on Voice123 and the quality and quantity of my audition efforts through my agents and managers. I love that you're backing it up with the numbers and quantity of my auditions on voice one, two, three and the quality and quantity of my audition efforts through my agents and managers.  23:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that you're backing it up with the numbers, because I mean, it's so easy right To point the finger and say, oh well, pay to play suck, or there's too many people on the pay to plays, or the pay to plays are bottom feeders. And so, therefore, I didn't get to the audition on time, which you know that plays a certain part in it.  24:03 But also it could be like my agent keeps sending me the same auditions to everyone. So it's easy to point the finger and lay blame. But I'll tell you what a lot of times, if you can increase your audition skills, you can increase your net worth, you can increase the rate that you can ask for. It's kind of like this what came first, the chicken or the egg, the audition or the value right that you can charge your potential client? I mean, honestly, it just goes hand in hand. If you are a better actor, if you are a better auditioner and that's going to require an investment, typically in working hard with maybe a performance coach that can give you good feedback. Because if you're like I don't know what's happening, the pay-to-plays suck these days. I'm not getting any work or my agent is not getting me work, and I hate it when people blame their agents for not getting them work.  24:50 It really is up to you to put in that investment into your business so that you can audition better and then command those better rates.  24:58 - Tom Dheere (Host) Absolutely so. Creating a rate sheet from scratch or using the SAG-AFTRA guidelines or using the Global Voice Acting Academy rate guides is an important thing to understand what is a voice actor's worth in relation to the genres and the broadcast versus non-broadcast market. But I'll be honest. I mean, yes, I have had rate sheets that I built from scratch and talked to other voice actors over the past 15, 20 years, but these days I don't really look at it anymore. I just kind of just know, through repetition, what I'm worth, what the genre is worth, what the gig is worth based on the broadcast or non-broadcast usage. Is it going to just be in a museum exhibition or is it going to be on a corporate website that has 10,000 employees?  25:40 After a while you just kind of get the hang of it, but that does not help our bosses who are early in their voiceover journey. So bookmark that SAG-AFTRA rates, Bookmark that GVAA. Have your own little Google Doc. Keep track of the agent auditions that you get if you have representation. Keep track of the online casting site audition rates. Just start to note them. Just make a little simple spreadsheet Genre rate terms.  26:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I did that right in the beginning of my career. It was like audition. Where did the audition come from? Did I book the gig? What was the price? Literally? That can really help establish for you rates to charge and just make sure that you're keeping up with those rates and really doing some market research. If you're new to the industry, those rate guides use them as a guide only. That doesn't mean that they're the be-all, end-all of what you as a business owner should charge. But I would say, rather than going to the lower number because you want the client right, make sure that that number is well within what you are worth. And just because you started just recently doesn't mean that you can't command the same rate that Tom and I can.  26:47 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, and here's the thing about that is that the lowest bid doesn't always book the gig. It does not always. It does not always win.  26:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I get nervous when I buy things that are too cheap. Then I'm like oh, I don't know about the quality of this Right, because you know there's going to be.  27:01 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yeah, there may be a lack of quality. I mean, think of it this way Like my wife and I were just in the big Macy's flagship store a couple weeks ago to see the Macy's flower show, and we walked through the departments and you see, like on the top floor of Macy's is the luggage and you luggage and you've got five different suitcase sets. The first few are worth $100 and then the last one is worth $400. What are the ones people are going to look at first? They're going to be like why is this one $400? What is it that gives it more value than the other ones?  27:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I'll tell you something too Sometimes I can't believe I'm going to admit this like on the air top as a female when I go shopping clothes shopping right and they have huge, huge sales. When there's like bins of clothing that are slashed 70%, sometimes that's almost too overwhelming and exhausting. And now that the prices have been slashed so much, I'm like I don't know people have been handling these clothes. I don't know. Are they not in fashion anymore? I question everything right.  27:58 Oh my gosh, they're so low, yeah, why are there so many of those in the bin of the same like style? Is that because it's not in style? And then I question all the other aspects of it. The quality, is it in style? And so, literally I will. To save my brain the overwhelm of low prices, I will go to the stuff that is priced higher and it's usually presented much nicer right and it's less overwhelming. Think about your voiceover right. Think about your voice and presenting it in a way that you are worthy, right. You are worthy of commanding that price. You are worthy of the elegant luxury brand of that voice, right and people paying that money. There is such an attraction to that for a lot of buyers it's like a psychological aspect.  28:45 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yeah, look, look, vo bosses. If you have gotten your training, if you have gotten your demos, if you've built your website, if you have your home recording studio set up and you have a rate sheet built, you're worth it. Yeah, absolutely, you are worth it. You are worth it and you have a rate sheet built, you're worth it. Yeah, absolutely, you are worth it. You are worth it and you are worthy, yes, absolutely Good stuff.  29:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We could go on and on and on about this, but I find, tom, when I talk to you, like our podcasts run a little bit long because we have so much to talk about. You're so easy to talk to.  29:14 - Tom Dheere (Host) Aw, you too.  29:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Thank you, Tom, for the wonderful, wonderful, sensible business head that you have. I absolutely love, love, love our sessions together and, bosses, I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl, that allows me to connect with Tom and talk numbers, because I love to do that, and all sorts of other wonderful business things that we should know as voice actors. You can find out more at IPDTLcom, tom. Thanks again so much. I just love our sessions together and I can't wait till our next one.  29:45 - Tom Dheere (Host) It's my pleasure. Thanks for having me back.  29:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Bosses, have a great week. We'll see you next week. Bye.  29:52 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at V? O bosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business Like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Get ready for an epic conversation with the one and only Jon Bailey, the voice behind Honest Trailers and one of the voices of Optimus Prime. Jon shares his unique journey into voice acting, from his unexpected start and overcoming the early hurdles of being labeled "just a YouTube voice" to establishing himself as a renowned actor in the industry. We discuss the importance of performance background and how platforms like YouTube have become integral to shaping modern voice-acting careers. Authenticity and resilience are the cornerstones of lasting success in the entertainment industry. This episode illuminates how maintaining a genuine persona can inspire others, with practical advice on consistency, branding, and leveraging mentorship. 00:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, bosses want to be that well-rounded talent that's always in demand. I offer coaching in a variety of genres, including commercials that grab attention, medical narrations that educate, corporate scripts that inspire and e-learning modules that engage. Find out more at anganguzacom.  00:24 - Intro (Host) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, anne Ganguza.  00:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am so excited to have a very special guest in the studio with me today Epic voice guy of the four-time Emmy-nominated Honest Trailers, the sixth voice of Optimus Prime and over 20 other Transformer characters and voices for Marvel, disney and many, many more and the credit list just goes on and on, but this is a finite amount of time that I have with you, so I am going to let you talk. Welcome, Jon Bailey.  01:17 - Jon Bailey (Host) Thank you. It's good to see you again after 100 years. I said 500.  01:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So, yes, we go way back. At least we were just discussing it like 16 years it is. I said 500. So, yes, we go way back. At least we were just discussing it like 16 years, gosh, when you first got into voiceover and I have watched you over the years become this incredible success. Bosses I mean, this is the VO Boss podcast. We are talking very boss-like. We are talking very boss-like strategies and hard work. Jon, I am so, so happy for all of your successes and so proud of you, my gosh, because I know in the beginning it was a struggle for you. So maybe for the bosses I don't know anybody that probably doesn't know who you are, but in case they don't, tell us a little bit about how you got into the world of voice acting, it's good to be back.  02:06 - Jon Bailey (Host) Thank you for having me back on. It's been a hot second. Yeah, it was all kind of accidental. I had background in performance from school, all the way from, I would say, kindergarten, through college and public speaking and improv and things like that.  02:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) In fact, I think that's how we met is through Rebecca's love. That, oh, yes, that's right. Oh my gosh, I feel like that had something to do with it.  02:27 - Jon Bailey (Host) It's been so long ago I don't 100% remember, but I feel like that may have been how we connected. So that was back in my R&D days, which was two years before I even did anything professionally and, like you had said, before, we started the show. Seriously, I would go in, for my first manager kind of found me on the Internet by accident because I'd started YouTube out of boredom.  02:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) really, Little did you know?  02:49 - Jon Bailey (Host) Yeah well, the main reason why I did it was because I saw other people taking old cartoons and dubbing over them and making funny things out of them. I was like, well, that's what I wanted to do. If they can do it, then why can't I do that? And I had this small following just based off the comedy stuff that I put together involving Transformers and the movie trailer voice, the inner world guy and my first manager, family from that video. And then I ran into the problem with him, like he pitched me to Sony because I would feel like we've heard your voice before and something. I'm like, oh, cool. I was like, well, I did this little tiny thing online and caught on his trailers and they, oh, because you're not a real voice actor, you're a YouTube voice actor. And I was like there's a difference.  03:30 And it's so funny how much just changed in a decade, because now that's considered a major platform.  03:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That is what is so impressive, Jon. You just forged through, because I remember that they're like oh yeah, honest Australia's. You're not a real voice. I remember that and I remember your struggles and your frustration with that, and you have like a trillion followers. I mean literally.  03:50 - Jon Bailey (Host) Not that I'm inflating.  03:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But you got what?  03:52 - Jon Bailey (Host) over a million, over a million, yeah, combined across all platforms, which is impressive. For voice actors, yeah, who haven't been the main character in some major popular anime or cartoon or whatever game? I kind of coined the phrase recently where it's like I'm the guy everyone's heard but no one's heard of, right.  04:10 Because I'm so in everything like my manager, my agents, whoever, or sometimes just directly from the clients. They just throw everything at me and I'm just willing to give everything a shot. I know that can't hurt to try, so as long as it doesn't violate my personal faith. There's some things I'm just like no. And other things I'm like well, I'll check it out, but I can't make any promises and some stuff. I'm just like you know, don't bother me with this stuff because I'm not going to work on it.  04:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, so you've worked on such a wide range of projects. I mean, what would you say, say I mean outside of? I know in the beginnings were really like getting started and getting your feet wet and getting known. Talk about some of the biggest challenges that you've had as a voice actor, because, gosh, we all run into what we think are challenges. But I feel like just with the amount of exposure and the amount that you've grown over the years, I mean your challenges I feel must equal almost sometimes your follower size.  05:04 - Jon Bailey (Host) I think my challenge is there's been a lot of them, but I'd say if I had to narrow it down for an interview with you, I would say that you really need to have some organization to your personal life, because if you don't have the availability for this job, you're wasting your time because you really can't do anything else.  05:24 You have to find a way to work around their schedule instead of your own and be available for them, and that often leads to that thing between voice actors where it's like why did they get the job instead of me? Well, it might've been because they had a home studio and you didn't, and they had immediate availability and you didn't. Or they might've decided to move to a town like Los Angeles rather than the middle of nowhere, because sometimes it doesn't matter how great you are for the job, it really doesn't. For some reason, some people out here are just too scared of change and they would rather have a real human person that can show up at their studio at a specific time and day and record the thing. And unfortunately, you have to sacrifice a lot. I mean, you have to kind of give up your freedom, so to speak, and I'm thankful that technology has changed, where there's mobile options now, where I don't feel like I'm stuck in this particular physical space 24-7.  06:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I was just going to ask how much do you actually go in studio now?  06:21 - Jon Bailey (Host) Still probably more than me, I would say it's more than it used to be only because I'm booking more, but I would still say, you know, 90% of the time it's still here. In fact a good percentage is. Just to look at the bookings for this coming week, I have four bookings the first week of June and half of those are in studio and half of those are home studio. So it sometimes varies, but I would say the majority of the time I still feel like the majority of it is here. But certain projects they really want to work with just the studios that they've already recording all their other actors at, because they want the quality to sound the same. It makes sense to me, but at the same time people's home technology has gotten so good they don't really need it anymore.  06:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) COVID kind of proved that. Yeah, exactly Now. Did you have to do any upgrade? I'm sure you probably had a great studio already, but did you have to do any upgrading to your studio?  07:08 - Jon Bailey (Host) I mean it's still the same booth. It always was this one I've had, for I would say I've had this one for at least five or six years. Todd Haberkorn's misfortune was my fortune. He got this booth for his place, which is not too far from here, and he moved here from West Hollywood, which it fit perfectly fine in his old place, but it just happened to be a few inches too big for his new place. So he had to sell it for a third of what they normally run and I'm like well, I can make payments.  07:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And he was cool with that.  07:36 - Jon Bailey (Host) He just wanted to get rid of it because it takes up so much space and it's so heavy and so bulky and big. It's bigger than I need. It's an 8x4 and I don't recommend anything bigger than 4x4. But the truth is you really don't have to have a booth that looks like yours, no offense, but it looks beautiful on camera. That's great.  07:52 That's one of the main reasons why I had it, because if I want to make content and look like a pro, it needs to look like a pro. And no matter how great the audio quality is, no matter how many studios or clients that you've worked for, when it looks like the inside of a closet you don't look like a very good pro and I guarantee people out there it sounds better in that ugly closet than it does in that fancy studio of yours. Even the guys from VoiceOver Body Shop they recommend you don't have to have a whisper room, you can just have that freaking closet. But I figure that half my career is content creation. Freaking closet, but I figure that half my career is content creation. Half my career has been voiceover, so it might as well upgrade that because the opportunity presented itself for such a low price.  08:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, and I agree with you that image, I mean, it's how you present yourself really.  08:36 - Jon Bailey (Host) They don't teach you about how much branding is important.  08:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Back in our day, when we first started.  08:40 - Jon Bailey (Host) Branding was not part of the education. It was all about the voiceover, the career. They never really talked about, like your social media presence or having a color scheme. Well, you were developing that. We were still figuring it out.  08:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We were, and I remember like first time physically meeting you at a VO Peeps meetup. We were talking about how important it is to start branding and things were just getting popular on the internet. They were starting gosh. We're talking back in our day when we walked to school 10 miles. I know it's funny, that was only 10 years ago I know, I know, and it's incredible how it's grown.  09:12 And you know, you mentioned content creation, which, wow, I mean, like I said, you were ahead of your time back in the day on YouTube, and so I concur, yeah, you were ahead of your time, and I like to think of myself as being a little ahead of my time because I was broadcasting from my living room back when people weren't broadcasting on the Internet.  09:31 My VOP's made up and, that being said, I feel like we're kind of pioneers together, forging our own little paths in our business, which is why I'm so excited that we're talking today and you mentioned content creation. So let's talk a little bit about content creation and what it takes for you on a day-to-day basis, creating the content that you do, because, gosh, I've been following you for the longest time. And then I have another question that I'm going to talk about in a minute, because you have transformed. Not only have you voiced transformers, but you have transformed yourself. But let's talk a little bit about content creation and how important it is for bosses today and people wanting to build a successful business. What does content creation mean for that business?  10:11 - Jon Bailey (Host) Well, the one thing I learned and I have always been a trial and error person People always ask me every freaking day. I would have said you need to find reliable, trustworthy coaches that are affordable and just get coaching, instead of trying to do this the cheap, free way and learning it all the hard way through trial and error and just free research on the internet.  10:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It can be done.  10:39 - Jon Bailey (Host) I'm proof that it could be done, because I didn't get any coaching until I'd already been at this job for like almost a decade and I just didn't see the point because I'd been. Unfortunately, a few not so great coaches can ruin it for everybody else. I'm like I don't hear anything here that I couldn't find on the internet.  10:55 I personally have a theory that when we got started, people were gatekeeping the information. I think people were only telling they were so insecure in their own careers they were afraid if they shared this information, this is going to create more competition, which is going to screw me out of work, and I don't think that this is the kind of career where you should have to worry about that because it's so freaking huge. There is enough room for everybody in this job.  11:19 And if you're great at the job and you do a good job and you take the time to grow your brand and create content, do all the things that you need to do in order to be able to show what you're capable of, you'll be able to get work. There's no doubt in my mind. I've always been kind of ahead of my time, but I've been that guy that like I'll do it and until some huge voice actor does the same exact thing after they've seen me do it, then all of a sudden it becomes popular. I was one of the first voice actors to stream my own video games on Twitch. It didn't really go anywhere and I was like you know what and I told a few other voice actors about it. I said this is a great idea. Now all of them are actually making a separate income from doing the same thing I was doing, but nobody even showed up for me.  11:57 I was also one of the few people out there like I should create content about what I do, or just do career centered content. That's entertaining slash, maybe a little informational way to show what I do, just to promote myself. Because the thing, like I started off, the thing that I learned by making content, was that your representation. They will never represent you as well as you can represent yourself. And when I found out that my agents only just get the auditions and sometimes they'll have some relationship with clients and they'll pitch you to somebody they're never going to know you until you get out there and show them who you are. So take whatever thing that you do and just formulate your content around what you're best at, whether you're best at creating creatures or you're best at doing impressions. Whatever Impressions won't get you anywhere in professional voice of a career.  12:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) but they're fantastic for content.  12:48 - Jon Bailey (Host) That's not the advice I got 12 years ago. I was told you will never get anywhere in this business doing impressions. That's not true, because you can grow a brand and all of a sudden you're so popular Clients can't do anything except they can't ignore you once you have millions of followers and you're like, oh man, we should hire this guy because people will buy our brand or at least consider our product or service or whatever, just because this guy has so many people.  13:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely. I love that.  13:15 - Jon Bailey (Host) So growing your brand and making content is a way for you to represent yourself and not just sit back and sit on your hands and wait for your agents to do it, because they're not. Your representation's primary job is to make you look good and let people know what you're booking even if they didn't book it for you, and get you auditions and opportunities. They're not out there promoting you specifically, they're not putting out visual audio demos of you doing stuff and working on things, and everything is content Everything.  13:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now question for you because you create so much content and now that you have so many followers, I would imagine yes, of course. Now you're getting sponsorships. You're getting people who want you to talk about their things, because you do have a big follower base. Do your agents have control over the type of content? How careful do you have to be now creating your content?  14:00 - Jon Bailey (Host) I think that agents representatives have to be careful depending on their talent. I think if their talent is smart and they're wise, obviously they're going to hit me up and say you can't post that, you need to take that and sometimes I just have to kind of self regulate.  14:15 I'll give you a perfect example of that. There was a project that was coming out and I thought it would be funny to make a prank video because it's a project that I have been known to work for in the past. So for an April Fool's joke, I created a fake thing for this thing and posted it on the Internet and all of a sudden it reached a point because my content has gotten so big and my career has grown so much that people were using that as a potential news leak of some nondisclosure stuff. I'm like oh crap, I've reached the point where I can't just be regular Joe fan that makes funny stuff for the internet. And then they're like oh, that's so.  14:54 I had to be way more thoughtful and because of, like I said, I learned everything the hard way because of some NDA scares and because of some reprimands from some agents in the past. Over the last decade and a half I've learned like what is okay and what's not, and I'm just always very careful because it does help. I've been working for Hasbro for eight years. Eight years I've been doing voices for the same company, for the same franchise, and only within the last couple of years? Did they even know I was working for them?  15:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wow.  15:15 - Jon Bailey (Host) Because when you have a massive corporation they drop down all those little jobs down to other companies that are lower on the pole. So they can just like look, we're just going to license this brand out to you. You tell us what you're going to make, you do the entire production, We'll approve, and then you know it's got our official stamp on it. They have no idea who's working for them. So when I get out there and I start making content, I'm really starting to push something like Transformers, for example, because I remember that.  15:39 I do remember that, so they'll send me products or they'll send me news, information or images, digital assets whatever to repost because it makes sense for me, and the more that I do that, the more that people are associating me with my favorite brands that I already work for or it's making other companies go wow, he does a really good job for them. As long as there's no conflict between clients, maybe we should get them to check out our stuff or whatever. So, for example, for Transformers specifically, I have probably four different companies that send me stuff that I don't have to pay for, that I can make content with, or I can resell or give away. There's a lot of different ideas that you can do. You just have to think outside the box.  16:37 It's all about thinking outside the box and doing the best you can to represent yourself in a way where your reps don't have to worry about what you make because they're afraid that you're like oh my gosh, you said you're not a chub on that, I mean, I even had to think about that whenever it came to anything marvel related, because when I started booking sound likes for some of these actors for marvel, I'm like does that mean I can't make comedy, marvel content or whatever, because that might be a spoiler for something that I don't even know about because I'm not working on a project. But I feel like anything I'm doing to help it boils down to this. This is the very, very important part. It boils down to only doing positive things about the clients, brands, products, whatever that you want to work with or that you're a fan of, whatever Because let's just say you like.  17:18 Snickers. If you like Snickers, you don't want to do negative Snickers things. You want to show yourself eating a Snickers, show yourself talking about Snickers, making funny things based on Snickers, and eventually you get enough followers and enough people are like this is really funny, this is really entertaining. This makes me like Snickers. This makes me want to support you by getting whatever. Eventually, snickers is like hey, you know what, we'll send you some free Snickers, send you money in a brand deal. The important part is to do it positive. Don't do anything negative about a brand that you like.  17:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I was just going to ask you. There's the other side of the coin, where any publicity is good publicity, so sometimes negative.  17:52 - Jon Bailey (Host) True, but I feel like you're playing it safe and smart if you just stick to only things that, for example, if something comes out, that's not that great, but it's for a company that I like. That's the truth. But it's also about growing your brand, about being seen by enough people to be considered like, oh, and it's also about showing all the things that you do, whether it's your skill set, whether it's your sense of humor, whether it's just your perfect, whatever it is that you're doing it helps them understand like this person has all these positive traits that we like. We would like to continue to work with them, or we'd like to start working with them.  18:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I like that. I like that a lot.  18:34 - Jon Bailey (Host) The whole Mint Mobile ad with Ryan Reynolds. It did not come from my voiceover stuff, it came directly as a result of social media stuff. I was one of the first people out there doing an impression of Ryan Reynolds, because I've seen people out there doing impressions for decades. They started doing it on YouTube when it was first brand new a thing. People were trying to do it as some kind of bit where it's like here's this tiny little cartoon picture in the corner and here's one second of me doing this character. Like I could do 500 cartoon characters in three minutes. And I was like, okay, I see what you're doing, but it's also terrible. It doesn't mean you're a good voice actor, it just means you've made clever content that a lot of people watched.  19:09 But wouldn't it be better, instead of doing those impressions, to just take your skill set and promote yourself in a different way and do something nobody else is doing? So I started looking. It's like man, my gosh. All these voices are old. These characters are ridiculously ancient. It's always Mickey Mouse and Kermit the Frog and stuff that anybody pretty much could do, because the guys who came up with those characters they didn't want to stray so far from their own voices. They were just doing whatever. So I was like you know what? I should just look at who's popular right now, who's the number one top dogs right now? So I started looking at the A-listers. I'm like nobody's doing Chris Hemsworth Nobody's doing Ryan Reynolds.  19:43 Nobody's doing.  19:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All of a sudden.  19:51 - Jon Bailey (Host) Now everybody's copying that pattern. It's just one of the first out there and because I did such a good job with Ryan Reynolds' voice and I made positive, funny, entertaining content, it eventually got the attention of Maximum Effort who reached out to my agents, said we really like Jon, we have this funny idea. We don't really know what we're going to do yet, but we'd them on commercial. There's a good paycheck for it involved, also good social media. Because he's smart enough to know, because Maximum Effort is very good about this. They think like I do. They're like there's a potential for this stuff. It's all in the internet and how you present this More people to see that than you can by throwing this up on a television commercial. So, yeah, it just kind of became that formulation of is it positive? Does it show off my skill set well, does it make me look like we should work with this guy and want to work with this brand? Would this brand be like? This is a unique or entertainer insert thing here of a way to promote our product. We'd like to work with this guy more or continue to work with him. So, yeah, it's going to be, became the whole mindset and the main goal was always not to make money from.  20:49 I make hardly any money from social media, just next to nothing, because the primary goal was not to make money. If I wanted to monetize, there's a very particular set of rules that you have to follow in order to make money from social media. My goal was to get more eyeballs on it, get more followers, because at some point you want to be indispensable, you want to be invaluable to people and like well with me. Not only do you get 16 years of professional experience, all these credits, all these working with all these great companies or clients or studios or whatever. You also get somebody with over a million followers on social media who will promote your project and make content about it for no extra money, just because that's what he already does, because that also helps. It's a cycle. It helps me get bigger, which helps me book more jobs which helps me get bigger, which helps me get more jobs.  21:32 It all works together and it does kind of feel like you're working half your time for free, but that's why you should do things you enjoy. Make your content something that you enjoy, based on things that you like. Just build it around your skillset around your talent.  21:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Sure, I love that and I love the whole positive spin that you put on things, as well as authenticity. To take a moment to talk about authenticity you have been very authentic, having known you for so many years now, about things like in your personal life, like your transformation right In your family, and so let's talk a little bit about what authenticity means as well in terms of I feel as though it's not a put on to get more followers. I just really identify with you through your stories. I think you and I have a similar story about, let's say, our body change, our health. We've transformed a little bit in that way, and I've seen a lot of posts from you about that and also stuff about personal struggles that you've had. Let's talk for a moment about the authenticity and how important that is.  22:30 - Jon Bailey (Host) Well, I think you should keep the majority of your personal life offline. Nobody needs to know all your personal business. But I do feel like, when people have been supporting you for so long, they feel an attachment to your story and to you and they want to root for you. They want to be in your corner, they want to see you succeed. Some of them even live vicariously through you. But a lot of people are just looking for inspiration. They're looking for somebody else to give them justification for whatever it is that they're going to decide to do, and when they see somebody like me give up, it makes them want to give up. When they see somebody like me keeping on and pushing on and just never quitting, it makes them not want to give up.  23:09 I inspire other people and, as a person of faith, that's kind of half the reason why I do what I do, because I feel like it's better to be genuine and be yourself, because if you have to mask, eventually it'll all fall apart. You won't be able to keep that up for forever because it's not really you. Jim Carrey's talked about this a lot because he used to be that guy. He thought he had to be like this all the time. That was a persona that he created. It was just a different version of himself where he literally was not Jim Carrey, he was whatever character he was portraying.  23:38 That was Jim Carrey. And when he finally dropped the mask and started being himself, he felt better. And yeah, he's not a super energetic I mean, he's still funny, but he's not that crazy, energetic, over-the-top, ridiculous guy all the time. He's actually just a normal human being who happens to have a very clever mind and sense of humor, et cetera, et cetera. And he talks all the time about how the word depressed has the words deep rest in it and how our brains can't keep up with that fake facade.  24:05 And I know exactly what he's talking about, because my personal life is not rainbows and skittles all the time. I don't go into great detail about it, but people do know. They know that I'm on the spectrum. They know that my son is very much on the spectrum and he's had a lot of issues. They know that my home life has not always been a hundred percent fun. And they also know that financial struggles and all I go through the same thing everybody else does.  24:29 There's a really great interview with Larry King, with the actor who played Abed in Community, which is one of my favorite TV shows and I did promos for it, which is how I became a fan and he was being interviewed.  24:40 Larry King's like give me a luxury that you can't live without. He's like cup of coffee. He's like no, no, no, a luxury. He's like a warm pair of socks. He's like no, a luxury, you know. Like a private place, like I work on duck tails, larry. It's like people don't get that. We're struggling just as much as I don't think, until the strike came forward. This feels like the first time ever that a strike has actually finally got people to realize we don't make a lot of money, we're not sitting around floating in a pool of money and everything is fancy and expensive.  25:09 I literally live from paycheck to paycheck. I don't know how I get from point A to point B except through faith and hard work. That's all there is to it. And you have to find things that work with your schedule in order to stay in this career, because you can't just go get a grocery store job or whatever and be able to make it. You'll only be able to work when you're free. These clients don't care when you're free, they only care when they're free. So so you have to make yourself available until you get to the point where you've reached the career level, we're like no, no, no, we'll wait for you, we can reschedule for you, don't worry. That didn't used to be the case when you first start off like next, because they have a million other people that can do what you do. No-transcript, how fast they can get it done, reliability, all these different things that are factors they're going to succeed. They see that, they can just tell, and part of it is that I am a really hard freaking worker and I'm very genuine and open about.  26:09 I'm just always going and doing stuff, but it's gotten a little better with content creation wise, because while I'm still just being me, I do take the time to like look ahead and see, okay, what's coming out. What am I working on? What am I allowed to talk about? What am I not allowed to talk about? What's trending right now? Since right now, I only have this free time on Saturday, and that's it. I'm going to make a whole bunch of stuff that week, and then I'm just going to drop it online whenever I have time, rather than so.  26:34 it's not like I'm making stuff all day long, every day. I can't do that. I can't keep working for free because people don't realize if they're not sending gifts or they're donating to your social media you're doing it out of the goodness of your heart on what little spare free time you've got. I don't have all day long to stream and et cetera. Content creation is. I absolutely agree with you, it's no small feat it is a full-time job that does not pay.  26:59 No small task at all, but it does pay off in jobs, in exposure.  27:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, absolutely, and that's interesting. My next question was going to be what's your best tips for people starting out in the business? You just gave it to me in that last Well, I got a lot more tips than that, but I loved it because hard work and I'm going to say determination, and especially now that the industry has shifted, I mean and evolved and I think you, more than anyone, really understand how to roll with the changes and to really evolve.  27:23 - Jon Bailey (Host) Well, you've brought up challenges, and that's what the challenge is that this job has become far more public. It's gotten much bigger. It was already big, but the career itself is already bigger and we have all these factors to be concerned about now, like AI replacing jobs like ADR.  27:50 And the competition has increased by a ton because now people understand technology is caught up, where you can pretty much do this anywhere with a decent Internet connection, which makes a big chunk of the industry going to be much tougher. But if you do all those things in conjunction, if you get training, get training from good, reliable coaches that are honest, trustworthy and affordable, you'll spare yourself years of research and development. Start creating a brand. I say this to people when I coach and all of a sudden it's like people realize all this stuff is just common sense stuff.  28:06 Make your profile picture Be the same. Make your bio Be the same across all your platforms. Just be consistent with making something. Find free time, bank up a bunch of free stuff. Post it when you don't have time, because you may not have time to make stuff later, but be showing what. Like I said, everything is content. If all I have time to do is be in the booth doing my job, then I'm going to record myself in the booth doing the job.  28:29 Add some different audio to it, so I don't break non-disclosure agreement when I'm recording auditions and just post something else over that and make that into a video to show people like I'm freaking, working, I'm doing this stuff here, I am in my booth, or just take a picture, do something, but make content and keep something going out there. Yes, it helps if you stay up with current trends, if you have a particular genre. I'll give you a couple of examples, because people probably think that this is just confined to well, you work in cartoons and movies. It's easy for you because you have all this stuff. That's not necessarily true. You never know which horse is going to win the race.  29:00 I would have thought that Mad Max would have been a great thing to post content about, but it's not doing as well as I thought it would do. So all the other stuff that I do content for is like okay, well, I can keep making that, but you just kind of have to keep an eye on it. But you have inspirational stuff, you have creepypastas, scary stories. There's just so many things that you can do and it be your brand, as long as you keep consistent and keep making something. And in the meantime you're doing auditions, you're out there, whatever, and as you're growing you can start adding that to like oh well, if you book me, you also get this.  29:30 I have a protege. I would love for you to interview her sometime. Her name is Hunter and she did not know what a voiceover was before she met me, but she did have performance experience. She used to be a haunter in haunts and let me tell you something it is harder to be a haunter in a haunt than it is to do stand-up comedy, Because you have an infinite amount of time that you're going to be doing this little performance. You've got about 10 minutes In a haunt. You're in there for hours coming up with characters, terrifying people, improvising, doing all the makeup and stuff yourself too. So there's on-camera stuff as well and you develop crazy skill sets that she didn't even know was a valuable skill set. She can create creature sounds that I've never heard a woman do before.  30:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I've only heard Dee Bradley Baker, do what she's done.  30:13 - Jon Bailey (Host) And, like you, have any idea how special that skill is in this industry.  30:17 You need to make content and show people what you do, and especially if it's something that you can do that they cannot do and all of a sudden, within three months of just doing a little voiceover coaching with me showing you the stuff that I know after 16 years, she was booking work, which proves that you don't have to have two years to 16 years to book that kind of stuff. If you have the information and you work hard and you supply the stuff that you learn, you can book stuff right away. This industry is easy to get into. My biggest problem and I'm going to hurt a lot of people's feelings right now my biggest problem is that people come to me with their hands out and that's all they ever do hey, what can I do to blah, blah, blah.  30:52 And I tell them they're like that doesn't sound like I'm just going to be able to do it without you giving it to me. So I'm like if you don't want it, if you're not willing to work for it, then don't ask. It's not a job where you can just go get an answer and I give you a key and you go open the door and you receive the rewards for it. It took 16 years to do that, yes, yes, it can be condensed down to shorter amount of time. When you find somebody like me who coaches and I've made all those mistakes already in 16 years' time I've gone through every version of how not to do the job, then finally figured out the right way to do the job wouldn't it make sense to invest a little bit of money and save yourself a lot of years to get that information and actually use it and apply it and just work hard at the job? It's kind of like Shawshank Redemption All it takes is time and patience.  31:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely Well, before we go, I do want to talk to you about your transformation.  31:42 - Jon Bailey (Host) You look amazing.  31:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I imagine you must feel great. I feel a lot better today, not so much because I injured my shoulder.  31:45 - Jon Bailey (Host) I'm sorry, that's right, but again, like I said, everything is content and I'm like you know what. A lot of people are already supportive. They want to see me succeed and I wanted to show them that if I can do something, anybody, if you just put your mind to something and you're just consistent at whether it's your health or your career or whatever, if you're just consistent at it, that's all it is. People just fall out of it because they go too hard, too fast. Whether it's your physical health or whether it's the career, they think that, okay, all I have to do is this one thing and then when it doesn't work out in a couple of months, people just quit. Or a couple of weeks, they just don't give it enough time. You don't get healthy in just a couple of weeks.  32:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It took years of back and forth and bouncing up and down, you and I both know, because we both been there.  32:25 - Jon Bailey (Host) I remember, I remember.  32:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You look like a different person too.  32:29 - Jon Bailey (Host) I've lost an entire person at this point I'm down 145 pounds.  32:33 - Intro (Host) I haven't had my biggest, I was 335.  32:36 - Jon Bailey (Host) That was around the time when you and I met I was literally that.  32:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) No neck guy and my overall goal was 170 pounds, but still is wonderful.  32:42 - Jon Bailey (Host) Thank you. I've only got 25 pounds left to go.  32:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Good for you. I still have some to go too, and it's funny People are like what? But I need to continually have that challenge. I feel like I'm like you in that way.  32:53 - Jon Bailey (Host) I'll give everybody something that really helped me, and it's going to seem like a silly thing, but if your health is important to you and you have people that depend on you and need you to be around, then you should make it a primary thing. Number one. Everything is content. You can film and take pictures of your progress. My progress stuff gets more traction than my professional career stuff does Mine did too my picture of me shrinking. Those are just pictures not even a video.  33:20 Those pictures had over 3,000 likes and I don't even have that many followers on Instagram. People want to see you succeed and it also inspires them and makes them want to do better for themselves, which is great. So you can literally make that as part of your journey, and I remember incorporating it into my routine. I'm like you know what, instead of it feeling like it's a job and that I have to go lose weight and I have to go hike and I have to go to, I'll make content while I'm out there. I'm make videos of me doing the thing, or make I did different celebrities going to the gym, you know, or working out or exercising, and it became where it was fun and eventually I'm multitasking. At that point, I'm making content and I'm working out.  33:57 At the same exact time, I'm also finding cool locations while I'm out doing whatever that like you know what. This would be a cool place to make a thing. There's so many different cool factors involved in just doing things better for yourself. The gym that I got for the backyard I was like you know what this would make great if I want to do gym videos because they have a very strict policy about making content inside of a gym, so having a gym in my backyard makes it a lot easier for me.  34:21 But it also I got it from another voice actor. Dave Fennoy got rid of his old gym because his studio flooded and he did not feel like putting it back in there.  34:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I got a great deal on it. Oh, that's awesome. I didn't realize that was Dave Fennoy. It helped me network more with yeah it helped me network with Dave Fennoy who's?  34:37 - Jon Bailey (Host) also a local to Memphis, which you know, I've only known two or three other voice actors that came from where I came from. So there's so many positive things about. Everything is interconnected, everything's all part of one big giant thing and it does sometimes feel a little bit like a video game because you're just like this doesn't feel real, but it's just all the parts working together and just looking for opportunities. I'll put it to you this way there's a movie I hate to bring up Jim Carrey again, but the movie yes man. I don't live quite that strictly to that kind of policy, but I do feel like you should say yes to every opportunity that comes your way. Unless you have a very solid like there, unless you have a very solid like, there's just no way I can. If it feels like there's resistance, then don't do it, but unless there's just something that instantly red flags, I'm just trying to be like yeah, I'll, absolutely. I'll do my best. I'll give it my best freaking shot, whether it's my health, whether it's my content, whether it's a voiceover job.  35:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I've been shocked at how many times that has worked out for me.  35:31 - Jon Bailey (Host) Just give it a chance. So many people are not confident in themselves. They don't have security in themselves. I don't think people understand the term fake it till you make it. It's talking about acting. It's literally talking about pretending to be okay and pretending to be fine and acting like you're good even if you're not good, even if you are nervous. This will change your entire life and I'm only going to give this one, and this is just an example of what you get when you coach with me. By the way, if you can pretend to be another person when you go into an audition, it completely changes things, because when you're already acting like you already got the job, you're going to do a better job performing the job. So, whether it comes to in-person auditions or whatever, or social situations or networking situations, you can literally just get comfortable acting like the person who is confident and who is a success until you are that's what faking it do to make it move.  36:22 People on the spectrum and voice actors and actors and performers. We're all very good at masking, and does that make us an exceptional liars? Probably All of us are not like that in our personal lives.  36:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But when?  36:34 - Jon Bailey (Host) you're very good at pretending to be someone else. You can make that into a viable career and it works for your content. It works for your overall brand. It works for your auditions. It also works for your booking. When you actually get the job, People will like you better, when you act like you belong there. In other words, when you go into a session, don't sit there and go. I'm sorry, let me do it again. I'm sorry.  36:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I messed up.  36:55 - Jon Bailey (Host) Hang on. I messed up. Hang on. I'm sorry you shut your mouth. Just say let me try that one more time.  36:59 I got a better one in me Change your mindset, change the way you speak, change the way you act. You're faking it till you make it, because eventually you'll start booking those jobs and it's just. I hate to keep using nerd references, but I am one it he could do it because he saw himself do it, and this is exactly. There was a life changing moment for me when I went into record Bumblebee for the third time and it's one of my favorite movies that I've ever worked on. It's my favorite franchise, my two favorite characters that I got to voice. I had no idea who I was working with in that studio. I didn't have a clue. Nobody told me that anybody from the movie was going to be there. The only people that I saw that were famous were some of the other voice actors that were working. So on the third session I was like I wonder who the director of this film is. And I looked it up and it was the guy I'd been working with for three sessions.  37:48 I didn't even know he was the director of the movie. I thought he was just the engineer at Paramount and it was like dude. I was nailing it, not even knowing I should be nervous. So why even be nervous? The next chance I got to work with another director, it was Michael freaking Bay. I wasn't even concerned anymore. Everybody was warning me. He's hard to work with. He's difficulty blah, blah, blah. I'm like dude. I worked with Travis Knight, didn't even know I was working with Travis Knight. I'm fine Because I can just act like I belong there and and people will believe it because I'm being very confident. Even though it's fake confidence, it's still confidence and eventually you'll start to believe your own confidence.  38:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's kind of manifesting.  38:24 - Intro (Host) Manifesting that it's faking it till you, make it I didn't understand.  38:27 - Jon Bailey (Host) I heard people say that for years and years and years until I realizing it's just faking confidence until you're actually doing that job, because you really kind of need to prove to everybody else and yourself that, yeah, you can do this, and once you can do it you don't need to worry about it anymore.  38:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And what I love is knowing you for so long Like I've seen this happen. I've actually watched you become this incredible success, confident, and it's. I love it. I'm just so, so happy for you.  38:54 - Jon Bailey (Host) I appreciate that it really is just about kind of like learning all the cheat codes. It takes me a little longer than most. I had friends tell me like it takes 10 years to get into cartoons. I booked an anime in eight and thought I was doing good, but then it was just crickets for another four years. So you just never really know. But then when I started realizing it really is all about faking that confidence and just believing in yourself, even if you don't believe in yourself. If you can fake it, other people will believe it.  39:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm signing up to coach with you, but actually this is a great segue into, first of all, how can people follow you If they don't know they should know because you're all over the place and then how can people work with you.  39:29 - Jon Bailey (Host) I recently. I won't say it's finished yet because I'm trying to add a couple more pages to it, but I recently overhauled my website thanks to my awesome mentor who also does website design. So if you need a voiceover website, I know somebody and the contact page. There's a section on coaching. My rates are all there. I've expanded from when I first started. You probably remember this. There was a long time I did not want to coach because I didn't feel like I had enough experience for it, because I was like I've only been at this five years. Even though I'm doing great, I don't feel like I've got anything to say to anybody. Brand new, because I'm brand new Now. I don't feel I've got a decade and a half plus two years of research and development.  40:01 I've worked for the biggest studios out there. I have gone through every version of how to do this job wrong, just like Thomas Edison inventing the light bulb wrong 99 times. I figured out the right way to do it by doing it wrong so many different ways. So I haven't named it yet, but it's kind of like the gamer's guide to voiceover.  40:17 - Intro (Host) It's a little cheat code magazine.  40:18 - Jon Bailey (Host) Love it. So, yeah, I'm really easy to find Epic Voice Guy on every major platform and you can contact me via my website page or any DMs across any of the social media. I'll probably still sling you over to my website because it goes straight to my email address, but my coaching rates are ridiculously affordable compared to most people and you won't have to keep coming back for more coaching sessions unless you want to, because I didn't like that when I got started. I think we had this conversation before. I was very against the overall coaching community because I felt like so much of it was predatory. They were giving some of the same information over and over that you can find on the Internet for free. And now they have a website. D Bradley Baker God bless his soul created Iwanttobeavoiceactorcom, and now I don't even have to like look, if you don't want to pay me, spend a few weeks on this free website. No skin off my teeth, you don't have to pay me a dime.  41:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) If they're not willing to look at that website for a couple of weeks because there's a lot of information there, then they don't really want to do this job and that's my number one go-to thing.  41:12 - Jon Bailey (Host) But yeah, I coach and I also do other stuff too. I also offer, if they want, fan stuff, a little bit of everything Awesome.  41:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, you do. I remember that you were doing that back 16 years ago too.  41:23 - Jon Bailey (Host) Yeah, I try to look at the industry and see where the gaps were and see where is something missing. It's like, oh, I started realizing these brands that reached out to me like, oh, we realize, you make a lot of Transformers content. I was like, well, you know, as a voice actor and having a professional page, I should freaking have a shop page.  41:39 And then call those companies and say hey, would you like to advertise for free on my website? Duh Three or four, I'm like, yeah, we'll give you some free ads and we'll even throw you a commission if they buy some stuff through the way I mean.  41:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) there's so much opportunity.  41:51 - Jon Bailey (Host) We just don't. Nobody really takes the time to think they're just looking at insert job here in the voiceover business and they don't think about all this other stuff.  41:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's the business mind too.  42:01 - Jon Bailey (Host) Yeah, the simplest way I can put it, because I know your time is valuable too. The simplest way I can put it is if you're going to fish because you're starving to death and it's your only option, you have plenty of opportunities to fish, but you have a boat and you have a place to fish Do you put one hook in the water or do you put them all in if you have the opportunity, to put them all in there If you have a chance to catch more fish? Look for every single chance, every single opportunity, whether it's a YouTube and a TikTok and a Twitch and a whatever. If you're a gamer, game, if you're a reactor, react but do something. Build it around your skill set, make content on every platform out there. Look for every opportunity networking opportunities, voiceover meetups like what Anne and I used to go to the coaching sessions from people that are reliable free website resources.  42:47 There's a ton out there If you just put in the freaking effort. That's where you guys make me angry. Put in the freaking effort.  42:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) This podcast is a resource.  42:55 - Jon Bailey (Host) Exactly, I've been doing this podcast for eight years, eight years weekly. So yeah, I just celebrated my eight year and you guys are not paying for it. This is free resources that are extremely helpful, Jon.  43:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Bailey, john Bailey. Oh my gosh, it has been so wonderful. We should have like five more, no, 15 more episodes.  43:11 - Jon Bailey (Host) I mean I would if I didn't have a game to record I know right.  43:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I could go on and on and on and I have a session I got to get to myself. I take that back. Five sessions.  43:19 - Jon Bailey (Host) I forgot one. I just booked another one today. Five sessions and two out of five are at home. That's not normal though.  43:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But I did want to be fair and honest. That means you got to drive three out of the five too, so that's time involved as well. Knowing this area.  43:32 - Jon Bailey (Host) Oh, that's aed. There you go, there you go, oh my gosh.  43:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) John, it's been amazing. Thank you so, so much for this. Bosses out there, follow John and coach with John. I'm telling you, you were like a fountain. You're a fountain of wisdom and information and again, thank you I keep telling people they should go to me.  43:54 - Jon Bailey (Host) I've got living proof. If you want living proof of how far you can come with a little information for me, if you are properly motivated and you work hard, go to VoxyDitch on any of the social medias. That's my mentee. I'm mentoring her and look how quickly she has people coming to her asking her for voiceover advice. Awesome, only being in this job for a few months.  44:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Awesome. Well, John, thanks again. Bosses, I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can network and connect like bosses like John and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Everyone have an amazing week and we will see you next week. Bye.  44:33 - Intro (Host) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Join us as we sit down with Steve Pogatch, Senior Manager of Voice Over Operations at Studio Resonate, SiriusXM and Pandora, to uncover the transformative journey of voiceover and audio advertising over the past decade. Prepare to have your perceptions of podcast advertising turned upside down. We dive into the fascinating differences between host reads and announcer reads. Gain valuable tips on delivering standout performances, crafting compelling commercial reels, and handling ambiguous scripts with finesse. Steve underscores the importance of prompt communication and reliable turnaround times while highlighting the industry's efforts to protect voice talent amidst the rise of synthetic voices. Finally, discover the impact of the Sonic Diversity Initiative, a significant step towards inclusivity in voice casting. 00:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, upgrade your voiceover game with VIPeeps and access our extensive library of over 350 hours of pre-recorded workshops. Whether you're interested in commercials, audiobooks, corporate narration, video games, promos, our workshops cover it all. Plus, as a VIPeeps member, you'll enjoy a 15% discount on current workshops and complimentary monthly workshops to further develop your skills. Join VIPs today and take your voiceover career to new heights. Find out more at vopeepscom.  00:39 - Intro (Host) It's time to take your business to the next level the boss level. It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, anne Ganguza.  00:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, anne Ganguza, and today I'm very excited to have with me in the studio a very special guest, senior Manager of Voice Over Operations of Studio Resonate, which is SiriusXM Media Pandora Stitcher, Steve Pogatch. In addition to producing thousands of high-quality audio ads in the past 10-plus years that he's been at Pandora, steve has been the go-to guy for all things VO casting, direction and quality. He's responsible for recruiting, auditioning and curating new talent for the Pandora VO roster, as well as managing that roster. Steve, I am so super excited to have you with us today. Thanks so much for being with us.  01:42 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. I feel like I've reached the upper echelon of the VO world now that I'm on the Boss podcast.  01:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So thank you so much. Well, thank you, thank you. Well, we're super excited to glean all of your years of wisdom and I'm just so excited that we had this opportunity that I saw you in person. I had to see you in person to beg you to come on the show. So let's kick off things by talking a little bit about your journey at Pandora. You've been there for 10 years and I know in the past 10 years in my voiceover career, I've seen a ton of things change. Talk to us a little bit about what you've seen as far as changes in audio advertising, casting and voiceover.  02:24 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Sure. So yeah, about 10 years ago when I started I was just a producer and our voice roster was maybe about 60 talents or so Wow, and yeah, when they started their advertising department they were getting talents off of Craigslist and other places that I really didn't know. So when I got there, that roster was on an Excel spreadsheet really and it was just filled with all kinds of information and it was really hard to manage and navigate. But a lot of the voices were that terrestrial radio, you know announcer-y style voice.  02:56 And one overarching theme is that voices and everything we've been doing for the past 10 plus years has really just escalated from the announcer-y like hey, pandora listeners, you know like radio style, to hey, pandora listener, you know it's like instead of talking to a group of people talking to one person, you're interrupting their music flow, you're tapping them on the shoulder. You know you're in their earbuds and you just hey, let me tell you about this Tide detergent or Cascade dishwashing liquid or something like that, and just the gentle approach. So it's really gravitated from the super announcer-y, terrestrial radio style to super conversational. The directional word I love to use nowadays is casual a lot. Everyone's sick of conversational already. They're like oh yeah, you're talking to a friend, blah blah, blah, you know yeah.  03:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know, what's so funny is just my own personal feelings about it is, I get that Like I think they're just sick of the conversational word, but in reality we have conversations with each other every single day, and so there's all different styles of conversational. It could be authoritative conversational, it could be like super casual conversational. I think that when it comes to advertising, though, one of the reasons why it's kind of gotten to that in your ear one-on-one sort of, I think that's what sells and I think that's the evolution of advertising over the years. Would you say that that's true?  04:18 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, I think so it's. You know, the more personal you can get, or targeted, you know, with an ad, or I mean not to the point where it's creepy, but to the point where it resonates with the listener. You know where it's like, oh yeah, the same thing with VO talent getting into a script and connecting with a script. It's like you want to connect with that listener, like, oh yeah, I do use that dish soap every night.  04:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, yeah, I want to.  04:40 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Oh yeah, that sounds interesting to me, you know.  04:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So then I guess my question would be is and this is probably something you're very familiar with is that they ask you to have that casual, like engaged, sort of sound, but yet they don't always write it so that it's easy to achieve that? Do you find that, in terms of the copy that you're seeing come across your desk over and over again, like people still want it to be very, you know, like you're talking to your best friend or that casual, but yet sometimes it's written like super announcer-y?  05:08 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, and that is hard. That is really hard when you get the bullet point style our orange juice has 100% fresh pulp and made from only Valencia oranges. It's like there's three other facts attached to that and you're squeezing that into 30 seconds spot. It's like there's three other facts attached to that and you're squeezing that into 30 seconds spot. It's like how do we get these bullet points to be super conversational?  05:30 - Intro (Host) That is hard.  05:31 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) That is very hard for a talent and for a copywriter. So we do have some great copywriters on our team on Studio Resonate that actually really write great scripts and whenever I can get scripts with humor in them or stuff like that, it just really makes the whole experience better.  05:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now in the studio, are you always writing the copy, or do the clients come and provide copy as well, or do you make suggestions? Let's say, when they come with copy and then they ask for a super casual read, or they have 5,000 words when they need it in 30 seconds.  06:02 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, that happens. The struggle is real.  06:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) The struggle is real.  06:06 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, I'd say I don't know the exact percentage, but from where I sit I don't do the writing, but it feels like maybe half and half half are our copywriters and half might be the clients, and sometimes we'll actually take the clients and go here, let us try and rewrite this in a Pandorified way or something like that. And sometimes again, it's like those bullet points-y stuff that really need to get in there and don't even get me started on like some like pharmacy disclaimers and stuff like that.  06:32 - Intro (Host) You probably know from medical narration and stuff like that.  06:34 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) It's just like woo. You know, it's like 90 words in a 30 second script.  06:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, but they're changing too. It's interesting if you actually listen to some of them now I don't think they're as fast as they used to be, because I'm almost positive that because it's a legal disclaimer that they have to be, like, understood by the listener, and so sometimes if they're talking too fast then it's not clear, or because I've really noticed that trend and I don't know if it's the same in terms of I've seen it on television at least.  07:04 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah.  07:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I don't know about Pandora, but very interesting. So then my question is is the casual read dying? Are people coming back to announcer style, or are you seeing variations on the type of casual?  07:20 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, I hope it's not going back to announcer, because we've really worked hard on this whole gentle approach. Yeah, exactly, and you know personally, when I meet a voice actor who's locked into that whole radio world like I have 27 years of radio experience how do I get on your roster and I just kind of go well, how do I let you down gently?  07:41 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, exactly Because you're looking for an actor.  07:44 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Some talents and again talents who haven't really evolved with us in the 10 years that I've been there at least, or may not be on our roster anymore because there has been that evolution. But yeah, it's really difficult for some people who have been locked into that radio world to actually shift and change and it's part of their muscle memories.  08:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right Interesting. I know that even when it comes to, like, long format narration, I know that just reading it it doesn't cut it anymore. I mean, you have to be in their ear and that's super hard, given you've got more than a minute's worth of copy and it's not always written in a first person kind of way, so that I know the struggle is real for that as well. So, in terms of advertising, would you say that there are more advertisements from 10 years ago today, or how are you seeing the trend? Because I know in podcasting there's a lot of people who, like they find advertising annoying and so they fast forward quickly, and so I'm just curious to see how advertising is received in terms of listenership and in terms of popularity of people. Yeah, let's advertise on Pandora.  08:49 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) It's funny because when I first started this job, I would meet people at like a party or something like that, or a dinner, you know a get together, and they were like oh, where do you work?  08:57 - Intro (Host) I'm like, oh, I work at Pandora.  08:58 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) They're like I love Pandora, and then I just sit back and wait for the next sentence. They take a breath and they go, but the ads, yeah, exactly.  09:14 - Intro (Host) You, he knew it. And then I go, hey.  09:15 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) I make those ads and then talk about like an awkward. You know you can hear a glass drop in the background, but it's just like, well, we're trying to you know to make these ads gentle and not as abrasive and in your face like real radio ads.  09:22 And then they turn around and they start to agree with me. I'm like yeah, yeah, you know, okay, but I think the Free Pandora, you knowora, has really kind of survived on the advertising and I haven't really done a count in a while, but I don't think it's that many ads. I don't think it's really changed over time either, like in terms of an ad pod and an hour listening session.  09:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, I think it is what it is. I mean, you have to support the medium and I know that for myself, like on the VO Boss podcast, I've had sponsors which I wait until the end typically to say anything about the sponsors. But lately I'm like gosh, I've had this podcast for seven and a half years and I've never done any advertising, and so now I'm kind of doing my own ads. Now we'll see how that turns out. But my question to you is is that podcast advertising is now really started to become a thing just because podcasts are now becoming a thing? So what are your thoughts on that? Are you seeing trends? Are you seeing changes in how people tolerate ads and podcasts?  10:16 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, I mean, I actually am guilty of fast-forwarding through a podcast ad recently, when I was listening to a podcast.  10:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It better not be mine.  10:23 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Shame on me.  10:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's like a voice actor who fast-forwards through a commercial on television.  10:27 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Right, it was their own. No, no, no.  10:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, I don't watch commercials Really.  10:34 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) But since SiriusXM bought Stitcher a few years ago, they were a podcast company. So we had to kind of figure out okay, we're going to do a lot more podcast ads now, so what does this sound like? So I feel like in the past few years we've been kind of sculpting this. There's a couple of different versions of what we work with in our group, on our team, and one is host reads. You know, it's like you have your Conan O'Briens and they're just handed a sheet of bullet points and they're ad living.  11:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, yes, and I think that's effective.  11:02 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, if you ever listen to Conan O'Briens ad reads, they're incredible.  11:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, it's smart list. I'm going to put my vote in for SmartList. Okay, Really, really excellent. It's Sean Hayes, Dustin Bateman and oh my gosh, Will Arnett.  11:15 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah.  11:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And so each one of them take turns. And you're right, they get the bullet points and they add them. They're amazing, they're funny. That's the best yeah, and so I agree. So that's just so so interesting yeah.  11:25 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) So that's the host read, and then we also do this thing called announcer.  11:29 Read now again that word announcer is not used in the same context that I just told you that we've evolved from. It's just quote announcer read, it's another package or whatever. So we've been trying to sculpt what does this announcer read sound like? Well, in my eyes it's like an offshoot of the conversational, because you're listening to a podcast and it's usually two hosts, you know, or whoever the hosts are, they're just shooting the breeze, you know, talking to one another, you know, we've all heard that. And then boom, a podcast ad comes in. So how do we want that ad to be? And it's the same thing as interrupting someone's music flow Again. But this is like. So we just want that super casual approach.  12:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But you can still tell the difference, because it's not necessarily ad-libbed right Like a host Right.  12:14 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, you can definitely yeah, but we're trying to write that way as well, and we've been working on this for a couple of years already, and I feel like we're getting there and we have a select group of talent.  12:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think I'm going to hire you guys. I wrote my own and it took a long time because trying to write it as a host and in trying to like write something to sell something, I'm doing it myself, not bouncing it off anybody, and so it's a tough way to write. I mean, it's a whole different way of writing. Very interesting.  12:41 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, I actually. You know, I produced a podcast for my wife and her sister my sister-in-law and my wife is a therapist and a coach and she has products and stuff like that and she finally said oh, I should advertise myself on there. Sure, I said, you know, go to chat GPT and have them write some scripts for you and adjust it.  13:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) She didn't ask you to write them.  13:05 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) No.  13:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) No, Steve, I think maybe.  13:07 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) I already do too much. Producing this podcast is a lot more work than I expected, but I said feed in your website or something like that, so they know who you are.  13:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Again, I'm not super experienced with it yet I did have some help with ChatGPT writing my own ad, yeah and she came up with three, and so I created three commercials for her.  13:23 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Now I put them in a rotation for her midway through her podcast, so it's cool. And then they also turn it on ads wherever they're uploading their podcast to as well, so it'll be her ad, and then whatever ads they decide to put in there as well.  13:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So yeah, let's talk a little bit more about when you're recruiting or trying to find new talent for your roster. What is the process and what are you looking for? What sort of qualities in a voice actor are you looking for that are suitable for your roster? I know before it used to be a thing in the industry where it would be like, oh, they're opening up the roster, so everybody would be like, oh my God, did you get an invite, or it was that kind of thing. Or did you submit? Did you submit and did you get asked to be on the roster? And it was a big thing when you weren't thing, when you weren't. I remember that it was years ago. I submitted. I just remember, like going in the underground VO circles, it was the big thing.  14:15 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, and I will say it's very hard. We have 260 talents on our roster, or 250 talents on our roster right now, and I'd say it's pretty jammed up, so it's like it's really hard to like find what are we looking for now. You know, I feel like every time someone applies or sends me something, the number one reason I have to tell people is you know, you kind of sound like one or two other people on our roster and I feel bad like you are a superstar.  14:41 But yeah you know I can't give the people on our roster a disservice and I can't give you a disservice by oversaturating those kind of voices. So it's been tough to manage and we don't open the roster at any particular time. I know at the end of the year I do a little house cleaning. So people who aren't really, who are maybe booking one or two jobs a year, it's like, let me tell you, that's the hardest thing about saying goodbye to someone because they're not booking enough, like sorry, you've only booked like two gigs in the past two years. It's like you know that's not sustainable for you as us being a client of yours. It's like you're firing me. I'm like no, I'm not. No, I don't want to use that word, no, but again, it's not sustainable for you to just book one spot a year from us. You know.  15:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, I book one spot a year from us, you know. So, right, I agree, and I also think that it's hard for talent because they take it very personally when in fact sometimes it's not. I mean, sometimes, yes, it may be performance related, correct, but myself, having been in casting and having done Vio Basta as an audition demolition, but in casting and for projects like that, I just know that sometimes it has nothing to do with the performance, it has everything to do with oh okay, I have this product and this voice is not the demographic that I'm looking for, and so a lot of it is based on the client and what kind of voice they're looking for and who they're trying to sell to. Is that similar to what you feel, as well as to why some people get picked on the roster, like is there a trending sound right now, like millennial, like that kind of thing?  16:13 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) No, I mean there was the millennial thing, I think, but we've gotten everything we need right now and I just like what I really watch out for is oversaturating certain age ranges, you know, and just like you know, okay, we already have some, you know, senior age, males only a couple and then it's like do I bring one more on? No, because again it's that oversaturation thing. That's the thing I have to watch out for the most these days.  16:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So what would be your tips or secrets to help voice actors deliver their best performances? Not necessarily to get on the roster, but because I mean you've been casting for years and casting talent and performances. So what would be your best tips for helping VO talent deliver a great performance?  16:59 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Sure, I mean, I think the number one thing in the way we deal with talent is we're not doing a lot of live sessions, we're booking via email. So in those cases you're going to have to send us three takes, and your confidence and your self-direction is really what's at play here. So I would say that's like the number one kind of thing that we really hope you have is that confidence and self-direction, because you're going to send us three choices and you can't be unsure and you can't send us three of the exact same carbon copy. We've had some talents in the past?  17:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, how often does that happen?  17:33 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) It's happened where I actually have taken all three of their takes and put them on top of each other in Pro.  17:38 - Intro (Host) Tools or whatever.  17:39 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) And it's just one thing, echo and there's no difference between any of them. It's almost like it's eerie. Yeah, so that's a no do. But other stuff, definitely a good commercial reel. I think from like listening to a ton of commercial reels, I'm starting to learn like what makes a good one these days. You know, and also sitting on the speed dating with your demo panel the past few years at Solvus, I've had people give me demos that are, like you know, sound effects heavy, and then there's another voice on there and I say you have 60 seconds, add up the sound effects, add up the other voices on here. What's that? Four, five, six seconds? Okay, that's 10% of your demo.  18:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's not you. That's real estate.  18:21 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, so you can have sound effects, but not have it just be by themselves or start your demo with a big explosion or something like that, right, unless you're going for terrestrial radio or whatever I don't know. But yeah, other stuff is like. One thing I really appreciate from a talent is I call it VO intuition. If you have a script that, for example, it says finance or something like that, and you're not sure the way the client wants it, you know it's finance or finance and I want to write a book that has those words in VO data data. You know, I wonder if anyone's done that yet. A book that all the words that could be said two different ways.  18:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh right.  18:57 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) There's my quarter million dollar idea. I guess I don't know. But if you have a script like that and it's like 9 o'clock pm and the producer's not available, send it both ways and say hey.  19:07 I gave it to you. So that's what I call VO intuition. I really appreciate that when it's like oh, I didn't know if you wanted data or data, so I'm giving it to you both ways or I'm picking up this sentence. Stuff like that is really great, but it's not a requirement. Good communication If I send good communication, you know, if I send you a request, I want to hear back from you within, you know, three or four hours, say, yes, I got it, I got you, I'm going to hit it by the deadline, no problem, our turnarounds are like 24 to 48 hours, so we need that as well. So, yeah, stuff like that and other stuff. I mean definitely the commercial demo is number one. These are nice to have character work singing, but, again, not required got Got it.  19:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So what qualities in addition to like, let's say, the demo? Right, let's say you have a demo and the demo is amazing. And then, all of a sudden, do you find talent sometimes that don't equate to the demo. Meaning what you hear on the demo is not necessarily what you get back when you give them. Okay, here's a job the customer picked out for you. Can you give me three versions of it? And then, all of a sudden, it sounds nothing like their demo. And then what happens at that point?  20:09 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Do you direct them or yeah, I mean, there is always a chance for us to get on the phone or do a live session. But in terms of our recruiting and the way it works to get on our roster is we listen to the demos and if we really like it, then we'll reach out with a whole packet of auditions. Oh god, this is like 12 different scripts you know from like automotive, university, healthcare, retail, and then we've just created a podcast script and cpg, which is consumer packaged goods, and a conversational script and ad lib script. So it's like 12 of those scripts. So that gives us. So you'll find out. Yeah, did you record in a fancy studio and now you're at your kitchen table and what you did on your demo? Is that also translating as well to our scripts?  20:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So let's talk a little bit about I always call it like the technological disruptor in the room synthetic voices. Are you finding that you have clients that are looking for that these days and, if so, do you have a source or how do you feel about it? What's your take on synthetic voices and their place in the industry today?  21:13 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, I think there are some spots where it would be good for a talent, you know, like if you had your clone and you were in control of it. I think that is number one. Again, I want to shout out to Nava and everything they're doing for. Ai Because I believe in all the stuff that their manifesto, everything about how they stand for the vo industry and ai.  21:34 I'm just so into what they're doing so I gotta shout out for them. But there are places, you know, suppose you were given something you know where you needed to read like 2500 addresses or something like that, you know, and you're just like, oh god, I can't do, I can't do this, I'm going to blow out my voice or it's going to take six hours. And then you're like, all right, I'll just do the body of the spot and then turn my clone on to do that. It's hard to figure out. What are the rates? What is a good rate for that as well? You know, and that's kind of stuff I think about, you know, when I'm what is a good rate? I always want to stand for our talents and try and get the best rates possible for them. So you know, that's something I need to think about if we ever were to go into an AI world Right now. I mean, some clients are asking for it and stuff like that.  22:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And what type of applications Are they asking for it in terms of it's because they can't afford or they have, let's say, volume material that they think it's an ongoing thing where just a date will change or a price will change or a couple of things will change.  22:30 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, I don't think it's gotten that expressive yet or that detailed yet. I think they're just like wanting to touch the new toys that are out there Play around yeah.  22:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I actually almost I agree with you on that, because I feel like it's kind of novelty. People just want to see how good it is and I think for certain things, as you mentioned and a big shout out to Nava and one of the reasons why on the VO Boss podcast and Bosses if you haven't listened to it I did an extensive set of interviews with a number of AI companies to talk to them about ethics and the industry and synthetic voices in general, and I got educated. I did a lot of work and I got educated and I think that's wonderful and Nava is a really wonderful source for being educated as well, and so I think if we own the creative license to our voices and we can control it, I think that's moving in a positive direction and we just need to get it there first so that we can do that Absolutely.  23:27 But I don't think that the technology is there yet for emotion or rhythm or that kind of thing, although there's lots of great examples out there, and the scary thing about some of the great examples is somebody will say, oh gosh, listen to this. And everybody's like, oh my God, it's really good. And then everybody panics and gets scared. And in reality there's a lot of technical things on the backend and this is just from my own education, from interviewing so many people that worked in the AI industry that there's many, many different ways that people come out with these samples and you don't know how much engineering is done on the back end to make them sound that good.  24:01 And there's different technologies too. I mean there's text-to-speech, and then there's speech-to-speech, which is an entirely different technologies too. I mean there's text-to-speech, and then there's speech-to-speech, which is an entirely different thing, which is what they use for high-end Hollywood movie dubs, and that's where it sounds scary good. And so a lot of times you don't know. You don't know how it was produced or how it was manufactured. But kudos to NAVA again. And the sooner we can get legislation in place so that we can be protected, the better. You know, I've always said that we should, as an industry, just evolve. I mean, we're not going to make it go away, that's for darn sure. So we need to evolve and somehow work with it as it evolves as well. I don't think anymore that AI's high power is in synthetic voices anymore. I really feel that it's in data manipulation and data curation, and that's where its true strength is in terms of helping the world, you know, and hopefully in a good way.  24:55 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, I think there's also in my mind. There's a difference between, like the synthetic voices which are just like sprinkling stuff into a blender, and creating a new voice, versus a real person who owns their clone and they're in charge of their clone. That, to me, feels like the more comfortable situation.  25:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And to me I feel like that's like money-wise, it's an equal split, right? I feel like I should get 50% and the company that has my voice and generates my voice and hosts my voice right with their engine should get 50%. That's where I start in terms of why not, right?  25:28 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) yeah, if you need a pickup and you're like I'm sleeping, I'm on vacation, I'm in charge, I'm going to push the button, I'll get you that pickup, but I'm just going to set it for my phone right here, you know, or, yeah, you're in charge of that locker or whatever it is.  25:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So yeah, well, what other predictions? So I guess I'll say, if you took a look into the crystal ball outside of synthetic voices, what sort of predictions do you have for the future, at least for yourself and audio production and advertising?  25:54 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Well, this is what I'm enjoying a lot more in my day-to-day is more immersive sound design in audio advertising.  26:05 We are starting to do some cool stuff in the 3D space, where and I'm now the go-to guy Well, I'd like to think I'm now the go-to guy on my team for horror movie trailers or all things horror, because I just did something the other day that was really cool for this horror movie coming up and I just enjoyed taking an alien and going whoo whoo, whoo, whoo whoo, but in the headphones, where it comes from the top of the head to the bottom, or you can go around in that 3D space in headphones, which is really cool.  26:41 So anytime I could do that where you're just getting more theater of the mind stuff to actually immerse a listener and just have the VO be a support to that. I think if we can get more into those kind of things almost cinematic ads in your headphones I think that might be the way to really get people to enjoy ads too and really just be like whoa, did you hear that? You know, imagine people talking about did you hear that audio ad? You know? Like when they're in the same way people talk about super bowl ads, you know it's like, yeah, I'd love to get there.  27:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, audio ads like that. One other thing before I have to leave you, we could probably do five podcasts with all this really great conversation. Tell us a little bit about you started something called the sonic great conversation. Tell us a little bit about you started something called the Sonic Diversity Initiative. Talk to us a little bit about that. Sure.  27:23 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) This is like something we started during the pandemic. It's called Stand for Sonic Diversity and is a website we created called standforsonicdiversitycom, and basically we just started to take a look at our casting practices and other advertising agencies and we kind of put out almost like a pledge to other advertising agencies hey, will you guys pledge along with us to make your casting and your rosters more diverse and more inclusive? And as a result, I've worked really hard and I'm proud to say that our roster is now more than 50% voices of color. So I'm really proud of that work and we're trying to also make sure that our casting practices are that way.  28:10 Because, back then it was like you know, you're just like, unless a client specified, you would maybe assume like, oh, if they don't specify, then they want a white talent as their go-to and it's like no. So we decided we can move the needle from within by just making these changes internally and smartly, and it's the right thing to do. And so we also put this pledge up to other agencies and other advertising conglomerates and stuff like that, and hopefully they all join in as well.  28:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wonderful, wonderful.  28:39 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Well, thank you for that, yeah if you go to that site, there's a really cool audio spot that you can play there, and I am I'm proud to produce that spot as well.  28:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So what's that site again? Stanforsonicdiversitycom okay, awesome, so all right. My last question, which is here's a fun question for you if you were stranded on a deserted island and you could only bring three albums or podcasts with you, what would they be? I mean, I figure you must have some music preferences, for sure yeah, oh man only three, wow all right.  29:15 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) One of them is Prince.  29:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Ah, Of course I say 1999.  29:21 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) No, it's a double album.  29:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, just saying Prince is enough for me. Yeah, yeah, I would absolutely.  29:27 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) I like that it's the one with Housequake and Starfish and Coffee. I don't know why the name has escaped me. It's one of my favorite albums too he's brilliant. He's brilliant. Yes, and then I'm also a metalhead and I like kind of like heavy hardcore music and there's a band I.  29:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Why did I know that? Why did I know that somehow?  29:44 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) I play in two bands actually, so that's my weekend. Therapy is going and playing super loud music.  29:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There you go, and what do you play if I can?  29:51 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) ask I play bass.  29:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, okay, awesome, my brother plays. Brother plays bass. Yeah, wow, okay, can we hear you anywhere? Is that a thing? Can we hear you somewhere?  29:59 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Uh-huh, I'm in a band, it's an all-dad band, and this is the best name for an all-dad band. It's called that Ship has Sailed. I love it, I love it. We're on all the streaming places and I'm in're called Converge and their album is called Jane Doe. Okay, and then one more.  30:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh God, it could be a podcast too, if you have a favorite podcast.  30:29 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah.  30:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Because you've got to keep yourself busy.  30:32 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Right.  30:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So maybe the podcast would be more refreshing because it would come out on a regular basis.  30:39 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) There was one podcast I listened to by a co-worker introduced it to me and it's not something I can listen to over again because it was pretty intense, but it was really cool. It was called Sweet Bobby, I think. Okay, it was like a kind of a true crime kind of podcast.  30:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that I have.  30:53 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) I wouldn't take that with me, though. I'm sorry you put me on the spot.  30:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's okay, that's all right. I think you did really well.  31:00 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Thank you.  31:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So let me ask you I'm really excited by the way that, before I let you go, that I'm going to have you as a guest director for my VO Peeps group, which is going to be really amazing coming up in July. So thank you, Very excited to have that happen. If a voice talent, Voice talent want to reach out and find you, see all the good things that you do, listen to your band and also the other website that we mentioned, when can they find you?  31:23 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) You can probably hit me on LinkedIn or my email address is spogach at pandoracom. It might change to SiriusXM shortly. But one thing I like to tell talents and I guess I'm overly nice this way is like I'm always happy to lend talents their ears, like, for example, if someone sends a mission out or they want you, they want to know oh, why didn't I get that audition? You know, I'm happy to give feedback on there. It's like almost like you're all sending resumes out in the world. You don't hear anything back. You know it's, and it's like you're sending auditions out and no one ever gets feedback. So I'm always happy to lend an ear and give feedback. Or someone's like oh, can you listen to my demo? If I have time, I'm glad to take a minute and listen to someone's demo, give them feedback and stuff like that.  32:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's wonderful, I guess I'm too nice, I don't know. Now I'm going to send everybody your way out.  32:14 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) I know.  32:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) By the way, I'm changing my email address. There you go, yeah, right, well, steve, it has been so wonderful to have you here. Thank you so much for taking the time. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. Yes, you too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Steve, thank you again, it's been wonderful.  32:35 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Thank you, can't wait to see you. It was great talking to you.  32:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah for VO. Peeps and bosses, you have an amazing week and we'll see you next week.  32:44 - Intro (Host) Bye-bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IP.     

Explore the intricacies of financial success in your voiceover business with our new series "Boss Money Talks," featuring special guest Danielle Famble. Discover how assembling a team of financial experts, like accountants and CPAs, can help you track expenses, handle taxes, and ensure consistent profitability. The BOSSES highlight the benefits of separating personal and business finances and the advantages of having ongoing relationships with professionals. They discuss the benefits of quarterly meetings to assess profit and tax liabilities and the complexities of running a business, including payroll and compliance. This episode is packed with actionable advice to help you build a reliable financial team and set a solid financial structure for your voiceover business. 00:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey boss listeners. Are you ready to turn your voiceover career goals into achievements? With my personalized coaching and demo production, I'm here to help you reach new milestones. You know you're already part of a boss community that strives for the very best. Let's elevate that. Your success is my next project. Find out more at anganguzacom.  00:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, anne Ganguza.  00:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguza, and today I am so excited to start a new series called Boss Money Talks with the one and only Danielle Famble. I am so excited, Danielle, to have you on the show today to talk about something so important to our businesses, and that's money. Welcome, hey.  01:10 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Anne, thank you so much for having me on. This is really exciting.  01:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, I have to say it is my honor to have you. When I interviewed you and bosses if you didn't catch our last episode together I was just blown away by your savviness financially and, of course, voice actor and all that other good stuff. But it's very rare to find someone who really is all about the financial aspects of things and you're just right on top of everything. And I just was so excited to ask you to create a series with me on this because I think it's really important for the success of any boss out there for their business.  01:47 So, kicking off the first episode, I thought maybe we should talk about forming your team, because I recently spoke to my accountant and she handles things for me and I absolutely love it and I said it so many times across many, many episodes how important my accountant is to me. I thought, wow, we really need to like go over this again for any bosses that are out there really starting their own business how important it is to get your finances in order. Do you have a team of people that work with you? I mean, I know you have background in finance, but do you have a team of people for your business?  02:22 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I do. I think it's really important to talk about having a team, because as a solo entrepreneur, you want to do everything yourself, and some things you could do yourself, but it's just better to have an expert in that field. Oh, I so agree, and so, for me, I think I am the expert in the business in voiceover, in what I do, and so I want to bring in experts who are good at what they do so they can help educate me on how I can run my business better, because the main point of having a business is to create a profit, which is more money coming in than goes out, and if someone can help you exactly that's like kind of the basic, that's what we're doing here and if you can have someone who can help you exactly.  03:03 That's like kind of the basic. That's what we're doing here, yeah, and if you can have someone who can help you understand the profits and the business and what to do with the money and how to handle your taxes, all of that stuff, like having that team will help you grow and scale your business.  03:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, and I think accounting isn't something that I love to do. I mean, that's like one of my biggest reasons for when I got my accountant was that. Not that I wasn't financially savvy, but it certainly wasn't my main focus. I didn't go to school for it, and so when I started my own business, I was like, oh my gosh, I have to keep track of all of these things, like I'm spending money on equipment, I'm spending money on coaching, I'm spending money on demos, and God, I have to report this at the end of the year, right, and it just.  03:46 I remember I didn't really have great record keeping in the first year. Now, granted, I was doing it part time, but still I had to account right for the money that I expensed and the money that came in, even though it wasn't a whole lot. That first year, I wanted to make sure I was taking advantage of the fact that I gave up the corporate job. And now, all of a sudden, I've got to account for things, because at the end of the year, uncle Sam is going to want to know what I've been doing and when I waited too long to be very organized in my expenses and accounting, I, at the end of the year when I got ready for taxes. It was hell. It was just pure hell.  04:23 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) No one wants that. Like two or three months or two or three weeks I've been there of like just the worst possible aches in your stomach because you're like, oh no, in, like March or April, it's just horrible.  04:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's like oh God, tax season, it's here. I got to do this. I got to do this and I was using oh gosh, back in the day, I was using QuickBooks, but on desktop, and so it was like I want to talk about like 15 years ago, and it just was like one of those things where, like God, I got to enter another transaction.  04:55 It was just one of those things that just became very tedious and I was like I really don't like this. And ultimately I was very fortunate to have a recommendation for an accountant that could work with me. And that first year because again it was so long ago QuickBooks wasn't online or anything and, as a matter of fact, there was that whole stigma of you don't want to do anything financial online because it's scary and your security and that kind of thing. But how lucky are bosses in this day and age you know what I mean to kind of have that advantage that now things are so much more secure. Now you might say, well, is it really secure? But I have to say it's a whole lot more secure than it used to be, or at least I was always comfortable.  05:37 I remember in the 90s paying my bills online and I was one of the few people to do that. I mean, in the beginning I was just like, look at some point, you just have to trust the technology at some point and it's so much easier to pay things online. When I got my accountant for my business here, it was like magic. It was like we would meet once a week and she got to know my business and she got to know, like, what sorts of things were expenses, what sorts of things were income, and especially important was separating those expenses so that it wasn't all I had one account. I mean, I think when we talked before in our past episode we talked about how important it was to have a business account. Talk to us a little bit again about business accounts and what's important about that.  06:20 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) The most important, especially when it comes to taxes, but really just for simplicity, is to be able to separate your personal life from your business life. Your personal life, hopefully, is affected by your business life, as in your business, pays you to do the job that you do for your business. But keeping them separate is going to be very helpful, especially when it comes to taxes, and it will be easier for your financial team, as you build it, to be able to say okay, this is tax, this is business and this is personal. Here's how we keep them separate. There may be tax implications. You may be able to write certain things off if it's business, whereas if it's personal you can't. So it's helping you, but it's also helping your team keeping everything separate.  07:07 It's like legally, you kind of have to. I mean, imagine if, like any major corporation, the CEO of that corporation is just like swiping their own personal credit or debit card, Like you've got to treat your business, no matter the size or the scale of it, the way that other businesses are treated because they are taxed similarly. So this isn't necessarily just about business practices, but for me, with money, all of it I think about is like, come April 15th or come like the quarterly tax period. How can I set myself up for success now so I'm not feeling crunched and stressed for a couple of weeks during tax time when my CPA is probably not as available to me because they've got other people to work with? So keeping it separate will help you with bookkeeping. It will help you with, like the way that you think about your business and personal, how you can pay certain bills on time. Just keep it two separate accounts one for your personal and one in your business name.  08:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Sure, now question for you. Now my I guess I would call her my bookkeeper. She also does my taxes, so I don't know if yours is one in the same, but what I found to be super helpful and convenient is that I literally just have her on retainer. She does everything for me, and what is wonderful is that now we use QuickBooks online and so literally we can have a meeting and the two of us can be on the phone talking on a weekly basis or whenever I need to meet with her regarding okay, what is this? Is this a new category or is this an expense? And she pretty much knows my business because she's been doing this for me for about 10 years, so she pretty much knows what's going on and it makes it so easy. I cannot tell you that this year at tax time and the last few years really have been like oh yeah, hey, oh, it's April. What do you need from me for the taxes? Do you need anything specific? Because she also does our personal taxes as well as my business taxes.  09:07 And so in reality, like we barely have to do anything except send her the paperwork that we get and boom, she's done, I mean, and it's so stress free, I don't ever have to worry, she's got a good handle as to where I am. The other thing is that she's got a good handle as to where I am at any given point during the year, like how am I doing profit wise, how am I doing compared to last year? And she can generate reports and so she can really keep me up to date on what's happening in my business. And then I can say, all right, maybe I need to cut back here or I need to invest more here, and so it's really so helpful. And for me then she is the one person I guess you would say on my team that handles pretty much everything. But let's talk about creating a team. Who do you feel is necessary to have on a team to set yourself up for financial success in your business?  09:56 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I think this is a situation where you can expect to grow as you go. So I would say the first person to add into your financial team, your money team, is a CPA or some sort of accountant who is going to be helping you specifically when it comes to your taxes. But you made a really good point because you have an ongoing relationship with your accountant and for me in the past I would only go to my tax person when it was time to do my taxes once a year.  10:27 But if you can plan to have an ongoing relationship and I also have my accountant team on retainer so they know where I am throughout the course of the year we have quarterly meetings where they give me quarterly reports on where's the profit, what is my potential tax liability as of that time of the year, as of that quarter. So, looking past just April 15th and saying, okay, this is a relationship that I'm going to have with a person ongoing For me. I didn't realize that in the beginning and that's something that I've more recently figured out. So I would say to bosses out there make sure that the relationship that you have with your accountant is not a once a year relationship.  11:11 This needs to be an ongoing relationship throughout the course of the year, because then they can help you with tax planning and if you're forecasting for what's happening in the future, then you won't feel so shocked. I've been there. You won't feel so shocked when it's time to write that check or maybe you get a refund.  11:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean hallelujah if you do Absolutely, and you know what else too is that a lot of times I'm shocked by the state of California and taxes. But you know, that's just a whole other issue that has nothing to do with my lack of preparation for it. But anyways, the other thing too depending on the type of business, if you have a DBA or you know an LLC or an S-corp which I do I also have to pay myself, and so I have to do that on a regular basis, and so she takes care of that as well.  11:57 For me, she took care of the registering of it, and anytime I get a letter from the IRS or from and which happens a lot with this S-Corp because, they're either keeping me up to date on the newest things that are happening or maybe, for whatever reason from two years ago, they always seem to find, like you owe us $1.30. And I'm like, really, like you couldn't tell me that like $1.30. And the funny thing is is that my accountant has always been so. On top of it, she's like, no, actually, no, we paid that and so she will take care of all of that for me. I'll just have to like scan the paperwork that gets sent to me directly because my business is here at this address, and then I'll say, ok, what do I need to do? And she literally will say, ok, here we need to go to the IRS and we need to file this or do that, and it's more than just what you owe.  12:42 I'm talking about all the paperwork that needs to be filed for running an S-Corp for me in the state of California and as well, as she pays me so that, again, I'm not surprised at the end of the year and as a matter of fact, I've not been surprised really. I've been surprised when I actually got more refund than I thought, which is great, but I've never been like, oh God, I have to pay money, which always makes my stomach twist and knots, because we've planned so well. And a lot of times she's up on the laws, right, because that's what she does, right. This is why I'm like why try to do it yourself? She's up on all the laws and so she'll say okay, so this year or now they've introduced something new where you can expense so much of your mileage or so much of your medical expenses, and so she's up on all those things, and that way we can take full advantage, because who wants to pay more taxes if you don't have to? That's all I have to say.  13:35 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Exactly, and it's not even just about taxes as well. You go back to what you're talking about being an S-corp. I didn't know when it was the right time for me to be an S-corp. And so getting that information, if you can find in your accountant, your CPA, whomever you're working with, find someone who has the heart of a teacher. Dave Ramsey says that. And find somebody who can help educate you, because I wasn't trying to work with someone who just I handed things over.  14:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, especially your financial data. I mean that is personal and sensitive right and it's got to be a. I think you have to have a special relationship with your accountant.  14:13 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) To be honest, yeah, and personally I'm curious because I love money and numbers and talking about this and also I love my business. I love what I do and profit is a huge part of my business, or at least even the income, the money that's coming in, is a huge part of my business. So I want to understand it. Sure, I want someone who can teach me how to think about things, what I need to know going forward, that informs what decisions that I make, what conferences am I going to budget for? How am I paying myself? All of those things as part of an education, so that person isn't just telling you what to do. You are working with them and then you can direct them with your business goals and ideas and they can help support them with your business goals and ideas and they can help support you with what they know.  14:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Which I love.  14:56 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) It's a huge part of the money team and for me. You said that your accountant and bookkeeper are one and the same. Mine are two completely separate people.  15:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, okay.  15:04 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Okay, so the accountant does just the taxes and tax planning which we have our quarterly meeting, and then the bookkeeper is a completely separate person who does work at the accountant's office and they do my monthly profit and loss reports and send that to me Any day-to-day. They have access to my QuickBooks so they're seeing everything that I'm seeing basically. So they're kind of a different point of contact and I appreciate the separation because my bookkeeper is an expert in the bookkeeping aspect. So if I have questions I go to that person, if I have questions about taxes I go to this person. I like that separation but it doesn't have to be that way, it just happens to be that way.  15:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, no, and I agree, I feel like mine is a very unique case because she did our taxes before, but she always did her taxes. First I didn't have her as my ongoing accountant forever. I used to just go to her once a year and then I realized we developed a relationship and I realized I was like God, I hate entering, I hate having to do this every month. She goes. Well, I can do it for you. And I was like oh, yes, please.  16:08 So I think also, what's wonderful is isn't it nice that now we have things that like, especially in our business, our income comes in electronically and that can be filtered right into, so I don't have to manually like oh, I wrote a check, I don't have to manually enter it into QuickBooks like I had to do 10 years ago, 15 years ago, right, oh, I have a checkbook. Who writes checks anymore? I mean, I still have a checkbook and I do have to write checks every once in a while, but I mean, gosh, it's so nice that if I get a client payment that comes in via PayPal and I think it could be a whole separate other episode was what are your methods of payment? Because you got to make it easy right and what's important to know about that. But PayPal, Stripe, Wix, backend payments, QuickBooks allows payments, so I have lots of different banks  16:57 right. These are considered banks, right. Paypal's considered a bank, stripe's considered a bank, and so the fact that QuickBooks can integrate these in automatically it doesn't do it perfectly, but the fact is is if I get something that comes into my PayPal, simultaneously, it is fused into my online QuickBooks account, which is nice, so I don't have to enter things in and again, like I don't, but she does, and she'll make sure that it's categorized properly, because sometimes it tries to automatically categorize and it doesn't work right, but she's on top of the categories and making sure that. Then I know, oh gosh, I'm spending a whole lot of money on subscriptions or whatever. That In a lot of ways because the manual method was tedious.  17:40 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) It's super tedious. And imagine throwing into that someone pays you personally instead of paying your business. How much that like throws a wrench in the whole bookkeeping plans and everything else, which is why it is important to start with the separation of business and personal accounts. It's enough, you know, just the bookkeeping itself for your business is enough. Then adding in additional things to have to add and subtract, and forgot that I have this card. I use my credit card for everything personal business. It makes it really difficult down the line, especially as you grow your business. So, yeah, it's great to have everything electronically, it's great to be able to be paid in multiple different bank accounts or different accounts, but keeping it all under the umbrella of your business, separate from you personally, is really, I would say, like the baseline.  18:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I think the simpler the better. But then again, for me and anybody that knows me, I have multiple departments of my business, or multiple businesses really. I'm not just Ann Gengu's, I'm not just VO Boss that's one of my brands and then I'm also Ann Gengu's of Voice Productions and I'm also VO Peeps, and so I've got really kind of three different streams of business that come in. And you know, of course I'm always looking for more streams of income. And so you know, of course I'm always looking for more streams of income. And so you know, I think if you can keep it simple, I'll take income any way you can throw it at me, but for my accountant I've got to make sure that it's organized and easy. So the more that I diversify my business and again I'm thinking of diversifying yet again for another brand, just because I like to keep it interesting. So I've got another brand coming up, but I'll discuss that later. Got another brand coming up, but I'll discuss that later and so I want to try to make it as simple as possible for my accountant but yet still allow clients to pay me in a number of different ways.  19:26 I will make mention that I had my one business account, which I had to, actually had to change over to a new business account, and the reason why is because I changed my name. I originally was a DBA under and speak and then when I went and I created the S Corp, I became Ann Genguza Voice Production, just changed the name. But because I did that, all of a sudden it became like a thing with my bank that said, hey, who's this? Ann Genguza Voice Production. So because I didn't have the two registered at once, I didn't go back in DBA and add it in. They registered at once. I didn't go back and DBA and add it in.  20:04 They then said my business account was not valid under the name and speak. So I had to open up a new business account. And so it amazed me just how tied in that one business account was to everything that I did, to my PayPal, to my Stripe, to my website here, pay me. Everything would go on my Venmo, all my Bank of America was tied into that account. Or my cards, my debit cards, were all tied into that one business account, and transitioning it over became like oof. That's an event. As a matter of fact, I still haven't completely transitioned over and completely closed the old account, so I still have money coming into two accounts. Now it's even more important that I have a team or I have people really watching both accounts.  20:44 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Oh yeah for sure your new business is being treated as a new business, even though it's not.  20:50 It's the same business under a different name.  20:52 But that kind of tells you why it's so important to really start and plan it, to create almost the foundation for how you're going to be separating your accounts, the names, how you're getting paid, what's being paid in taxes, who's going to be your team to oversee all of that. Really setting up the structural foundation of the financial components of your business how that's run is really important. The unfortunate thing is it really is tedious and time-consuming when you're in the process that you're in. But you only have to do it once and you learn the process so that you know what to do in the future. I just recently purchased a rental house in my home state of Texas and I was speaking to my accountant about like I've never done this before, what do I do, and she said oh well, you just treat it like you treat your other business. And for me, having the experience of doing this with my business my voiceover business has actually taught me what I can do. To copy paste the principle the idea, so once you get this.  21:54 Once you understand how you're working your business and creating the structure for your business and the team that you need to help you, you can actually take that knowledge and just copy and paste it to whatever the next thing or the next industry is, which is really pretty great.  22:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that. So, in addition to, let's say, your bookkeeper and your accountant that does taxes, is there any other member of your team or anything else that you can recommend for bosses? And also I'm sure the bosses are like oh my God, I'm not even making money at voiceover, how am I going to afford? Right, I want to address that as well.  22:28 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Right. So, like I said, this is a grow as you go situation. I did not start by having a CPA and a bookkeeper, and you know the other members of my team, which I'll talk about in a second. So I would say, start with what do you need in the moment. If what you need in the moment is an accountant, which I would say everybody's got to pay taxes, so I would start there is having an accountant. Maybe it's not somebody that you have on retainer, but it is someone that you can maybe check in with once or twice a year outside of tax time, so that you can make sure that you are educated on what you need to be doing to prepare yourself for tax time. I would start there if you can, and then, if you can, grow to having that person be more of a person that you work with on an ongoing basis. That will definitely help you as you grow. Bookkeeping is something that I think you should understand how to do on your own.  23:24 Oh, I agree, I think you should educate yourself first, you should definitely educate yourself, but eventually it's something that you might want to outsource to someone else. For me, my metric is do I like doing it? Am I good at doing it? If the answer to both of those things is no, I will find someone I like that. That is their gift.  23:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Shop around. I mean, it's got to be somebody you trust. Again, your financial life is, I think, very personal and people want to be very secure about it. So it does take a special relationship, I think, with a person that you trust, with your numbers and your bank accounts.  23:59 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) And you might need to, yeah, shop around. You might need to work with multiple people.  24:08 The CPA that I'm with now is not the CPA I was with two years ago, and so this is still a relatively new relationship that she and I that we're cultivating, even with this bookkeeper. So there's a lot to learn, but you need to learn about it from a person who, like I said, has that heart of a teacher who wants to help educate you. That's how I would take it, and that's actually what I did was at first, I was working with someone who was just doing taxes and it was up to me and I was clearly not up for the job of bookkeeping, which is why I had those three weeks of panic in late March early.  24:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) April.  24:43 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) But you can grow as you go and find the people who can help educate you. Now I also have I think we talked about this in our past episode but I have an assistant who for the day-to-day applications in my business making sure invoices are sent, making sure they are paid, making sure they're marked as paid, not only in QuickBooks, which she and I do together, but also making sure that there are no outstanding invoices like that kind of day-to-day thing.  25:12 Some people have a bookkeeper do it, I do it with my assistant and, to give her credit, she's really the one who's like more on that day-to-day in terms of data entry and things like that. Obviously, it's something that not every VO boss is going to have an assistant at whatever stage in their business. It took me a while to get to that point, but I have found it helpful because then it's like one less thing that I'm doing in terms of the day-to-day touch points. That I'm doing in terms of the day-to-day touch points. And then, finally, I work with a financial advisor, because I wanted to work with someone who could help me understand my finances as a whole as a business owner and personally, and what's great is that I will have quarterly meetings with the financial advisor, the bookkeeper, the CPA and myself.  26:00 we are all on a big like money call quarterly.  26:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And.  26:03 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I have monthly meetings with my financial advisor about my personal goals with money and also, you know, with the business, and she can give me feedback. Like one of the things she said to me was hey, if you don't understand something in these meetings, I would love to see you show a little bit more courage and ask if you don't understand, because while I say yeah, I have the heart of a teacher.  26:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Sometimes I don't even know what to ask, and so I just you shake your head and go okay, uh-huh yeah sometimes you're just like okay, yeah. I get it uh-huh and I'm like I have no idea. I have no idea where they're going with that yeah.  26:38 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) But it's totally okay, even as the boss, the VO boss, to not understand, and that's why you're relying on these people.  26:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely.  26:53 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) But really, truly like lean into your curiosity and understand, because these people that you're working with like I said, the ones I'm working with now, I wasn't working with two years ago. You may work with a new team at some point, and so you want to go in with a level of armed with the knowledge about how your business is run and what your goals are for your business, so that you can direct your team instead of them telling you what to do, because you are the boss, absolutely, and what a wonderful note to end on.  27:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, you are the boss and so, yeah, you need to educate yourself so that you can direct these people with your financial aspect of your business, which is so very important and so very close to our hearts as we run our successful businesses. So I manifest that, danielle, thank you so much. I could go on and on and on. Now I just thought like a hundred other questions which I'm going to ask you in our next episodes. But, bosses, stay tuned for this brand new series called Boss Money Talks with Danielle Fanville. I am so, so happy you were here today, danielle. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and knowledge. Bosses, I'm giving a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at ipdtlcom. All right, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye, thanks, y'all.  28:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Grow your voiceover business with actionable insights and expert advice from THE BOSSES! We dive into pivotal resources and strategic investments necessary for your success. The BOSSES share transformative coaching strategies that can shift your whole perspective on script interpretation and character understanding. By aligning your unique strengths with market demands, you can stay relevant. We emphasize the lifelong commitment to ongoing training and professional coaching, along with the need for top-notch demos and a polished website. Your website serves as your professional storefront, boosting your visibility and credibility with potential clients. Practical advice on budgeting, wise investments, and cutting unnecessary expenses will help you navigate financial challenges and maximize your resources to grow your voice acting career. 00:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, bosses want to be that well-rounded talent that's always in demand. I offer coaching in a variety of genres, including commercials that grab attention, medical narrations that educate, corporate scripts that inspire and e-learning modules that engage. Find out more at anganguzacom.  00:22 - Testimonial (Ad) As I was getting more and more into the voice acting industry, I started realizing that it'd probably be really good to start specializing in certain sectors. I started talking with Anne and we realized that corporate might be really good for me, both in the way that I thought about things and in the aspect of the industries around me, what would be good for me to market with. So we decided to go with corporate, and it only took a handful of sessions with Anne for me to realize that with. So we decided to go with corporate, and it only took a handful of sessions with ann for me to realize that I was looking at sentences differently because of the way that she was teaching me, um, the way that I had to think about my character in the mint in the middle of like a paragraph or in the middle of even just the sentence itself. She really drove home the fact that you have to think about these things. There might not be a place given to you whenever you get the copy. There might not be a person there whenever you get the copy, however, that has to be there. There has to be some sort of connection in order for you to really understand that character in your corporate narration.  01:18 Moving past that and into other sides of different industries, I started doing more video game work and realized that the way that she taught me about sentences, the way that she taught me about my character and realizing that there is another person there even if it's not in the copy, there is another person there it was almost revolutionary. I absolutely love the way that I look at sentences now and the way that I go about my work, and she really changed all of that. I have to give her as much credit as I can. I know I know it sounds weird saying that the fundamentals were revolutionary, but the way that she teaches it, the way that she makes you think about it, it was revolutionary to me and it definitely has helped me a lot in my journey.  01:55 - Intro (Announcement) even now, it's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, anne Ganguza.  02:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with my lovely special guest, co -host Lau Lapides. Hey Anne, hi Lau, how are you Fabulous? How are you? I am awesome. Thank you so much. Ah, Law, I've had a busy week, a busy week with students, and I've made an observation that I might have mentioned to you before, but the observation to me is that lately, especially with the economy not being the best, I've had a lot of students who spend time talking to me about how they're very frustrated that they've not been able to move ahead, and that they know that they need coaching, or they know that they need more coaching, or they need a new demo, or they need a website, but yet they can't afford it, and so I wanted to like maybe talk to the bosses about resources and how maybe we can wisely utilize resources in order to grow our businesses, because I just have been hearing it so so much lately, Lau.  03:20 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Me too. I mean, when we work with students and have clients, it's a constant state of conversation. And it really is true, it's a bad economy and we understand inflation.  03:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We're the starving artists, we know what's going on.  03:32 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yeah, exactly yes we understand how much milk and eggs cost, like everyone does. We can't shove that under the rug. It's real. It affects everyone. There's an impact. We totally get that. But I'm of the belief system and the training and background that we have to make money. Yeah, so we have to make money before we make money, right. What I mean by that is we have to create it like an alchemist out of nothing. We have to make it happen so that we have those resources to go out and do what we need to do.  04:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, I like that, yeah, we need to have money so that we can invest money, so that we can grow our business, and if we don't have that money, there's got to be ways that we can create that money. As you said and I like to manifest it right Come from abundance right, and not necessarily have my dark cloud over my head saying it's not possible, I can't do this. I really think that the mental state has a lot to do with it, as well as being resourceful. So I know that for some of my students, when they talk about what are they doing to invest in their business and Lau, what are the absolute essentials that people need in order to run a successful voiceover business in terms of things that money that they have to invest? What are the things that are the absolute essentials?  04:49 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Right. I think we all can agree those of us who are in the industry that training, coaching, classwork, is just a basic. It's just the most rudimentary that we have to have, and it's something that is a lifelong learning. It's not just five weeks, six weeks, one day's something that is a lifelong learning. It's not just five weeks, six weeks, one day. It really is a lifelong learning, and so we have to be careful how we invest in that, because we know it's for the long run. It's not just a quick hit, overnight success and go. It really is going to be throughout your career that you're going to need retraining, you're going to need to upscale your training, and so we have to be careful how we plan for that and how we utilize our resources. But I would say training leading to your production work of your demos is baseline.  05:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, yes, I am a coach and a demo producer and so, of course, I'm going to agree with that. But I agree that I mean honestly not just because that's part of that's my livelihood, but honestly, bosses, your product is your voice, right, and you need to showcase that product to your potential clients. And so the best way to do that is to make your voice the very best that it can be. And I mean, how else do you do that outside of getting training and coaching and practice and classes and workshops and that sort of thing? And then you need to have the medium in which to showcase that range of talent and that range of acting skills that you have, and that is, more often than not, your demo, and it has to be able to be available for people to listen to, right, so it needs to get in front of people's eyes, it needs to be distributed so that you can then sell it as a product.  06:25 And so the very essentials I'm right there with you are the training to get your voice to be the product that it needs to be, to be competitive right in this industry and to be competitive so that you can make money with that voice, and you need to have the demos so that you can showcase that. And a lot of people will say to me well, do I really need the demos? I do auditions right. So my answer to that is yes, you need to also audition and do the custom auditions that your potential clients want. But also you need to have that medium that sits in your online storefront or somewhere on a roster, like on a pay-to-play, on a roster, in all the places that it can sit while you're sleeping, so that other people can listen to it and make their decisions and say, oh, I need that voice.  07:13 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yeah, case in point and we had a big job, big client come through about a week ago and we did the call and it was right on the script, the audition was right on the script. Sure enough, they came up with two of our people that they wanted to shortlist and they said we need to hear their demos, yeah, yeah. Now if we came back as agents and said sorry, they don't have demos, can they just record something for you? Already your credibility goes down the drain Because they're thinking of course you have demos, you've selected them for your agency roster, so they're sitting there ready to go right, which they are With these particular people. They are, and we sent it, we expedited that right out. It wasn't a question, it wasn't a problem. And so the least amount of problem that you can cause, the least amount of friction that you can cause in terms of having the best practices ready to go, well, you have to pay for that. That's one of those resources you just have to pay for. You have to have it.  08:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, you have to have the training, you have to have the demo, and that showcases your product.  08:16 Then, once you have your product right, you have to have a storefront right or a way to distribute that product, and there's lots of different mechanisms to do that.  08:24 The first and foremost that I can see is, if you're a business today, you have to have a website, and so investment into a website. So it means the hosting of the website, it means the creation of a website that deems you as a professional right, so that it looks as if you are a professional voice actor and that's what you do for a living. And so I did not go to school for website creation right, and even though I did try to do it myself I mean, I managed a website a long time ago but I'm not a graphic artist so I do believe that you can invest some of your money into having somebody help you make a beautiful place to showcase your product, because for me, it makes a difference. The packaging makes a difference. I don't know human nature, right, I love pretty packaging and a website that is done well and done professionally and is efficient so that you can sell that product, is absolutely worth the investment.  09:15 So that would be my next thing I would say that is so important is your online storefront, and so that includes somebody who's going to host it, and that's typically going to be like a monthly or a yearly cost. You have to buy that domain name too, which is yet another like yearly cost or monthly cost, and then you have to have somebody that designs that website and maybe maintains it or keeps it up to date, and if that's something that you can do, then that's fine, but I would say, if it's not something that is your specialty, I say that there's another worthy investment, right.  09:47 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) And of course it goes without saying, but we have to say it and that's having some sort of home studio set up. Oh gosh, yes. So for all of the new folks who are listening in right now, I know it's so obvious to us, but a lot of new people are coming into the industry and saying how do I set that up? What do I need at home? How much money do I spend? Well, I'll tell you. You have to have the basics for your home studio setup, and that does include SourceConnect.  10:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So now, when we sign a talent under a contract, they have to have SourceConnect, it has to be available to them. Now I have so many people that say that they have SourceConnect but they're like, look, I'm going to wait until I get the job and then I'm going to get SourceConnect Right, just having SourceConnect myself. I mean, unless they've changed things considerably, it's not an easy thing to do within a short amount of time. I mean, I know that there needs to be ports opened up in your router in order to allow the stream and not be firewalled out, and so for me, the setup I mean required some time, and I would hesitate to say wait until you get that job before you invest in it. I mean, I invested in the one-time fee and there's also a monthly option so that I'm at the ready whenever I'm needed, and so it sits there waiting for my client, and so I would say don't skimp on that. And so, yeah, I can't believe I like. That just eluded me. I just assuming everybody has that studio.  11:09 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) I know right, and yet a lot of new people coming into the industry don't know yet. They really don't know. And I would say okay, if you want to wait, you wait. But I'm telling you this it's a psychological decision you're making, because what you're saying is I could wait on an excellent mic. I could wait on a good computer. I could wait on almost everything. I, a good computer, I could wait on almost everything. I could wait until I'm working. But which came first, the chicken or the egg? You have to have good stuff. You have to invest in yourself before others are going to invest in you.  11:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, and these days you have to have great sound.  11:42 I mean you have to be able to—and, like you know, with our audition demolitions. When we are judging and giving feedback and criteria, the first thing that will make me throw out pretty much unless if somebody's completely botched up the name of the file, because there is a specific way to name the file that most casting directors prefer, and so if you can't follow directions, that's number one. But number two is if the first thing I hear is that you have a poor studio sound, I'm throwing that audition out the window, because that's something that I need right to be pristine. Hear is that you have a poor studio sound, I'm throwing that audition out the window, because that's something that I need right to be pristine.  12:16 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yes, absolutely, absolutely. I also would say you need to invest in some sort of SEO in terms of your marketing. I know that's the big buzzword now. Everyone marketing, direct marketing. Half the people don't know what that means or know what that is. And I say listen, don't think of it as marketing, Think of it as building relationships, Like you're connecting with people, you're connecting with prospects, you're connecting the dots so that you can work. That's really what you're trying to do. Well, that's expensive and time consuming. After a while, Just think about this how much do you pay for Wi-Fi? How much do you pay for your computer access? That's all stuff you pay for. You can't do it without paying for those things. Right? Those are your investments.  13:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I've got to piggyback on that and say technologically right, pay for an internet connection that is stable and allows you to communicate efficiently with your clients and potential clients. So don't go cheap on your internet connection because, especially with SourceConnect, you need it to be a good ethernet connection to your router, and it has to be an ethernet connection, by the way. So that's another thing I would say. Now your studio needs SourceConnect. You're going to have to make an investment to make sure that you can get to that router using an Ethernet connection versus a Wi-Fi connection, because that is unstable. A lot of times Wi-Fi will cut in and cut out and the last thing you want is to be doing the best take of your life ever while you're connected to another studio using SourceConnect and just have the connection cut out and that doesn't look good for you as a professional and it doesn't look good for any of us and have business speed.  13:55 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yeah, you know what I mean have your best plan that you can have Get fiber if you can I have gig fiber?  13:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Get boosted.  14:00 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yeah, get boosted, get a boost.  14:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) If you need a boost, like do whatever, you need't connect or why you're dropping out, or why the transmission is bad, right, sometimes you can't help it, but most of the time you can, yeah, and I'm going to say that have students that are in all stages of coming into this industry and some of them aren't quite sure if it's going to work for them right, so they're hesitant to spend the money.  14:26 But if you come to someone in your initial steps of trying to get into this industry and you're training and you already don't have enough money to train properly, then that tells you something.  14:38 That tells you that you need to get that money together in any way that you can right in order to advance and move forward.  14:46 And so, really, if you're coming into the industry for training and then you just want to get that demo right away, I think you need to change your mindset, because it's not going to be obviously, as we've said a billion times before, it's not that you can do this in a couple of sessions and then get a demo and go out and start making money. I mean, this is a process that if you look at things wisely and you use your resources wisely, you can steadily grow and move forward. And so that means that when you are starting and you are investing the money into training and then you're finding out if this is something that I find joy from and I have passion about continue to invest that money, but maybe not spend trillions of dollars right away on something that you need to continually invest in and then not have that money. I mean, I had a couple of part-time jobs that kept things flowing in the household while I was transitioning to full-time.  15:39 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Listen, you and I are old school in the sense that we had more demands. We'd just get another job. We'd get another side hustle, we'd make it work, we'd go under the seat cushion and save our pennies, like there was never an excuse in our backgrounds as to why we couldn't do something. I'm not suggesting you should get into major debt Like I don't love debt, don't get into debt but there are times where you do need to acquire some debt in the investment of your career. Like a lot of college people are going into college and spending $75,000 a year. Well, they're making an investment in their career, right?  16:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) How interesting is that? Like you bring that up, I think things have probably changed in terms of are people spending $75,000 a year to go to a school now for college education? I mean, things are changing. I mean people do, but back in the day it was a thing it wasn't even thought about twice. You paid that money because it was expected that you paid that money for training, got the education and then you went out and got that job and that investment was going to pay off in a nice job.  16:38 Now things have changed a little bit, I would say in terms of like, is it necessary to have that college degree? I mean, I think it's necessary to have education in some form. It doesn't necessarily have to be a college degree, but education in the career path that you plan on pursuing. And so if voice acting happens to be that one, then you're going to have to have some money to pursue it. It's not that quick money grab. We're going to make a lot of money and not invest a lot of money. So you have to step through, I think, carefully and wisely, and so maybe give up that Starbucks on a given day. That can really help you. I mean a couple of pennies here and there can really help you to save up for the training that you need or that demo that you need.  17:20 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) I would agree. Yeah, I would look out for your expenses. Make sure you're budgeting so that you know exactly what you're spending monthly. Look at all the surplus stuff that you're getting that you really don't need, whether it's a membership you don't need. Whether it's a latte you don't need. Whether it's taking excessive trips that you don't need to do, whether it's I mean. I could go on and on, and I'm not a financial advisor. This is not professional advice. I'm just telling you from my experience how I come up with a lot of money at the drop of a hat by sacrificing. Well, we can be frugal.  17:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We can be frugal right.  17:55 Of course, yes, we could. It's one of the reasons like so now I'm going old school but one of the reasons why, when I was a child, my parents took us camping, right, they couldn't afford big, expensive trips, so we went camping and so, you know, we went to the parks where we could get in for like five dollars a night and that kind of a thing, and so that's how we were able to live a comfortable life, I think, and really also have fun. So I think you mentioned the trips and gosh, I love taking trips, but there are times when I can't afford the trips that I want to take, like every other day.  18:28 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yeah, I know, here's another obvious one for you a great computer.  18:34 - Intro (Announcement) I need a great, relatively updated.  18:37 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) It doesn't have to be spanking new, but I work with so many people, annie and I know you do that say oh, my computer's like 10 years old. I don't know if it can hold the audio. I'm like well, upgrade it. Go, update it, because it shouldn't be 10 or 15 years old.  18:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, that's a wise investment, Absolutely. I mean, you're talking to a girl, a tech girl, here. I'm like at this point, actually my computer at home needs to be upgraded. I just know that because now it's starting to do weird things. You know, when your computer starts to do weird things, like it reboots on its own and it's like some unknown error.  19:07 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yeah, launching 12 programs without you being there.  19:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean, there's a time when it becomes a necessary investment, and I just know that I'm reaching that time to get a new computer and I know that I'm reevaluating my monthly subscriptions right now as well. Case in point here that my email service provider has now doubled their price to me, and this is the email service provider where I send out the boss blasts. And so now I have to go back and actually crunch the numbers and make sure because I'm charging a certain amount for a boss blast and a certain amount for a monthly boss blast, and now that they've raised the price on my email service provider, I have to make sure that I'm still generating a profit, at least enough to pay for it right and to reinvest for another year of it. So periodically you've got to just take a look at those numbers to make sure that you are still okay with making a profit and moving forward in your business, because you don't really want to.  20:04 I mean the first few years though of your business is probably going to be in the red. A lot of new businesses show in the red for the first few years, but you can't do that for too long, otherwise the IRS will be like, hmm, that sounds familiar. There's something going on there, then we might get audited. And I actually have been audited twice already, not because I was suspicious or it showed any suspicion, just because I mean it is our own business.  20:29 And I've been in business long enough, you're in business long enough, you're going to get audited.  20:32 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) And so yeah, you want to make sure that if you get audited you're ready. Yeah, you're ready for it.  20:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And that's your next investment is an accountant, oh my gosh Accountant.  20:43 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) I'm married to one. Everyone needs one. I'm telling you Accountant, someone who really can deal with your books, who really understands that you run a business, you're an entrepreneur, deals with your receipts in an appropriate way, what are your tax write-offs, getting you money back at the end of the year? You need someone who's clever, creative and wonderful and works cleanly and in an organized way. If you don't have someone, hire someone and a lawyer and an attorney, someone who can go over contracts with you.  21:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, yes because none of us are attorneys. A lawyer is lovely. I just engaged my lawyer the other day, so, yes, it's wonderful to have one that you can go to if you should need to.  21:23 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) And then, of course, another obvious one that I have to say you need a smartphone. It's really important, and those of you who are actors, you have to have a smartphone because all your self-taping is going to be on your iPhone. But you really have to have it because oftentimes people would describe it including myself, as your walking office. Like a lot of us don't have home phones any longer. We put all the investment into the cell phone, into the mobile, and we're on the road. Annie, are you not in a car day and night, working from your car? Well, I mean hands-free, of course. Well, you're in California, so, of course, hands-free. But the point is, I was in my car half the day today. I was working. The whole time I was working, yeah, absolutely, because I don't have to be back at an office.  22:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You need to be able to respond to your client inquiries right all the time. So that is important and that is something again like that can be expensed that smartphone.  22:15 And so those are the things I mean. Gosh, I can come up with a lot of things, and it's funny because a lot of people will say, oh well, I didn't realize that was involved. I mean, when you talk about marketing right, that effort of marketing I mean half of the episodes in VO, boss, more than half are about how to build your business, and marketing is such a huge part of building your business because I always say that you can have the best voice in the world, but it doesn't do you any good if nobody knows about it, and so marketing is key. And then that includes marketing is like your time, right, your time in finding leads and generating leads and nurturing relationships, and so that's something you have to invest in and you may want to invest in some help in doing that.  23:00 You may want to have a boss blast. I'm just going to say that.  23:03 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Well, you took the words right out of my mouth because I was going to say when you're at the tipping point, and you'll know when you're at the tipping point, meaning you just can't handle more than you're doing, you need to hire a VA. It's really important to get that one assistant in that can take the load off, that has expertise that maybe you don't have, that can really take on some of your projects and push the needle of your business forward Absolutely.  23:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, and so what you need to do, get yourself a business mentor too. I mean gosh. I just want to say that I do a once a month special, the once a month special with Tom Deere, the VO strategist, and he's wonderful. I love Tom, yeah, he's amazing, and so I highly recommend Tom in terms of helping you to, like, get your business together. Do you need to register your business? How do you do it? Do you have a plan? Do you have a strategy? I mean, that can really be a wise investment. And again, maybe not that Starbucks, maybe not that of course, I say that because I've been buying clothes all the time but maybe not that extra pair of shoes, or maybe not. It's one of those things. Where are the priorities?  24:07 - Intro (Announcement) And I don't want to be like a mom.  24:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm not, but honestly, it becomes where I hear this so often and it's exhausting. I'm just going to say it's exhausting because I think to myself gosh, I mean, I, when I first started, I had quit my full-time job and I was like, oh, I'm going to go into voiceover full-time, and so now, what do I do? Right, you become resourceful. Right, you have to become resourceful, you have to really do what it takes if you want to make a go of this and you want to be successful. And there's a lot of people who have support, people who will be like hey, so what's going on? Are you making money? What's happening? And so I mean we've got enough of that as it is. We need to really question our own selves to make sure that we are making the wise choices that we can make in order to move forward.  24:56 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) I love that I mean, we could go on and on with this, but I don't want to scare everyone to think you need everything at once. You can layer as you go.  25:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, and it can be something that you wisely invest. You make a plan and it happens little by little. I mean, gosh, our overnight success Lau. Mine took a long time.  25:16 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) I laugh. My 30-year overnight success? Yes, exactly.  25:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly, it was a lot of blood, sweat and work, and work.  25:24 Tears, a lot of work and a lot of work doing stuff that maybe I didn't want to do, right, that I was like damn, I wish I could have taken that trip. Or I really want that pair of shoes. But right now, right, I want to grow my business, and so what do I need to do? I've got a payment coming up right for my internet. Or I'm going to upgrade my internet, or I need to upgrade my computer, or I need to improve my studio sound, which the one thing I'll say about studio sound, I mean, once you get it set, it's a no-brainer, it kind of just stays, it's great. I set, it's a no-brainer, it kind of just stays, it's great. I mean equipment doesn't really die. I mean I've had my microphone for years, this studio here, it's not falling apart, that's for sure. So I've made the investment and I'm done For the most part.  26:07 - Intro (Announcement) I've got everything for a good long while.  26:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So that's okay, I got my backup right. I got my backup mic, I got my backup computer. I have things in case things break. I've got the backups, and so that took time and you know what.  26:20 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Get help in determining. Yeah, it takes a long time. Yeah, get help in determining what you want versus what you need. Yeah, I like that. Like, really keep that journal in front of you Want and need. Do you have like wants and needs Right? We think it's so strong. When we want something, we want to get it, but we don't oftentimes need it. We need what we need and really determining what do we need first, and then later we can reward ourselves when we're making extra money.  26:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think it's all sequencing it is, it's choreography, and we did touch upon and I'm going to say, just because I know that training we talked about that was like one of the first essentials. But sometimes there are professional students who train and train and train and train and train and yet it's almost like they're scared to start and so you've got to be careful with that too, and I would highly recommend that you go back and listen to that episode.  27:06 Bosses, We'll put a link in the show notes, but yeah, you've got to start at some point.  27:11 - Testimonial (Ad) You've got to start no-transcript.  27:27 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) And with that, don't go down rabbit holes you don't need to go down. Don't go into major technical fixes, don't go into major learning curves during your workday unless you have to, and don't overload on the training throughout your day. That will procrastinate from what you need to get. To Make sure you get your work time in first, then do your professional development and education time if possible, because you don't want to take up a whole day or a whole weekend or whatever, unless you really need it, unless you plan for it. Absolutely, I think you just need to plan for it,  27:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I know it's tough out there, bosses, but we have the faith that you can do it. I mean, if you become resourceful and you invest wisely. I really fully believe, if you've got the passion and the desire and you blast as always. Yes, it was. I'm going to give a great big shout out to one of the things that I've invested in, that's IPDTL. You, too, can invest wisely and be a boss. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we will see you next week. Bye, see you next week.  28:36 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to Coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

In this episode, Anne Ganguzza and Tom Dheere dissect the key components of building a robust online presence. From identifying customer pain points to harnessing the power of color psychology in your website design, The BOSSES explore what it takes to convey competence and reliability. We also delve into the subtle yet vital aspects of maintaining an easy-to-navigate, professional website that establishes credibility and trust. Learn how consistent visual cues and coherent storytelling can make or break your brand's effectiveness in today's competitive market. Finally, The BOSSES tackle the nuances of maintaining a consistent brand across social media platforms. We underscore the importance of professionalism and how off-brand or controversial content can jeopardize client relationships. 00:01 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Real Boss Series. I'm here with my special guest co-host Tom Dheere. Hey, Tom Dheere, how are you?  00:30 - Tom Dheere (Host) Hey Anne, I'm good. How are you? I'm awesome.  00:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Thank you very much.  00:34 - Tom Dheere (Host) You look fabulous today.  00:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Why thank you? So do you. I love your coloring.  00:39 - Tom Dheere (Host) Thank you, it's one of my Hawaii shirts because my wife's from Hawaii, so we go to Hawaii all the time.  00:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There you go. It's very boss.  00:45 - Tom Dheere (Host) Thank you. I love your blue because it kind of matches the coloring in the background. You look very branded today.  00:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Why, thank you. You know I have multiple brands and multiple colors for my brands, and so it's interesting because red is typically my boss brand. But I thought, you know, let's work a little A&G and Guza brand in here as well, which is my blue, my signature blue. So I'm kind of combining them right now. And, yeah, I've been branded for a while yet, but I don't know, tom, what are your thoughts? I think we should talk about branding, because it is a big discussion among voice actors and it's like everybody makes a big deal like oh my God, I have to like figure out my brand, and they and it's like everybody makes a big deal Like, oh my God, I have to like figure out my brand and they stress out over it. And so let's talk about brands. I mean, how important is it for voice actors to brand these days?  01:33 - Tom Dheere (Host) Well, my thoughts have evolved on this quite a bit over the past 15, 20 years or so. I used to be of the mind that every voice actor absolutely must brand themselves. They should design a logo, they should pick a font, they should pick a color scheme and then their demos, their business cards, their website, their social media content, all of their outbound marketing content newsletters and things like that should be 100% branded. It should be 100% aligned.  02:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well then, I fit the bill there for you. You're perfect. Okay, you're perfect.  02:08 - Tom Dheere (Host) But over the years when I had that perspective, I was focusing primarily on direct and indirect marketing strategies to get the bulk of my voiceover revenue.  02:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I agree, myself included.  02:21 - Tom Dheere (Host) I have representation. I'm on casting sites, but for me, direct and indirect marketing was the place and it's like the old mentality. It's like Anne, why aren't you wearing my glasses? Because they help me see better. So obviously they should help you see better. But gotten a little older, hopefully gotten a little wiser, and just looking at myself and looking at all the students I've had over the years and watching what other successful voice actors do, I don't know if everybody needs to brand themselves.  02:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, gosh Tom, for many years there was no branding, right, there was no internet. Well, I shouldn't say there was no branding, but it wasn't as visible. And so how did voice actors in the 80s stand out?  03:02 - Tom Dheere (Host) They didn't, they just auditioned and booked.  03:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They were managed by their agents, right or managers. And so they didn't have to necessarily brand their businesses. They became known for their voice and their agents were out there kind of branding for them, right.  03:20 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yeah, their reputation was built solely on the quality of their auditions and the quality of the experience when they were in the recording studio working with the clients. And that was it. The value promise was the audition Sure, the value delivery was the recording session. Yeah, platforms on top of that. Most voice actors feel obligated in a way that they have to brand themselves because they have to be on all of these social media platforms and they have to be spewing out content all the time in the hopes that they will catch somebody's attention to stay top of mind to get them into and through the sales funnel and all of that stuff.  04:01 But to your point, if representation was the only casting portal in the industry, no, we wouldn't need to brand. There are online casting sites too pay-to-play sites, voice123, voicescom, vidalgo, what have you? You don't need to brand yourself on there either, because all it's about is the value promise of the audition and the value delivery of the recording session or delivering the files properly formatted, with the proper amount of takes, and you took the direction on the casting notice or whatever. You know what I mean.  04:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) What about Fiverr? Just out of curiosity. I know we've had this, I know that's a bad F word but I think it depends on how the platform is marketing you right, or how are people finding out about you right On the platform?  04:38 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yeah, and it's interesting because Fiverr and Upwork, which are technically online casting sites, they weren't designed as voiceover casting sites like Voice123 and Voicescom, but they seem to be conducive for voiceover casting. There's very little auditioning happening on Fiverr and Upwork.  04:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) People come and look and listen.  04:55 - Tom Dheere (Host) It's direct bookings. So, with that in mind, yeah, your branding actually is very important.  05:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Your headshot's very important, I agree.  05:05 - Tom Dheere (Host) Your tagline, the verbiage, how you package and present yourself. Yeah, branding is important.  05:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So then, if you're direct marketing, right, I feel that a brand is very, very important. If you're direct marketing and if people are finding you online, let's say at your website, like for me, tom, and we have different businesses, right, you and I I have multiple brands. I don't have a ton of time to audition, except for my agents, right, which that's a whole different way that I obtain my job, and I don't have any time literally these days to audition on pay-to-plays. However, I do exist on pay-to-plays because I want to make sure that I know the platform so that I can recommend to my students. So for me, my branding is still relevant, I would say, because that's how I get a lot of people that say, oh, the Ann Ganguza brand or Ann, I see you everywhere, and that's good, because that's kind of my purpose.  05:53 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yeah, I have two brands. I have the Tom Dheere the H is silent, but I'm not voice actor brand and then I have the VO strategist brand, and both of them serve different needs. Well, obviously, one for me as a voice actor and then one for me as a voiceover business and marketing consultant and coach and mentor. What's interesting, and tell me, if you have this experience, is that your branding as Ann Gangu's a voice actor greatly informs your reputation and branding as Ann Gangu's a voiceover coach. Because, with a very precious few exceptions, like a Maurice Tobias or a Mary Lynn Wisner, you need to be a boots on the ground, successful, consistently working actor to be taken seriously as a voiceover coach. Absolutely, absolutely.  06:39 So a part of my branding as a VO strategist is go check me out at tomdeercom, listen to my demos, look at my YouTube channel, see all the work that I've done, because the fact that I've done a bunch of e-learning modules is one thing, but the fact that I was the voice of Inspector Gadget in the Inspector Gadget video game last year gives you a lot of street cred. So that attracts certain types of voice actors who want to do that sort of business. And even if they don't. They grew up on Inspector Gadget, so I'm writing the coattails of the brand of Inspector Gadget when I brand myself as Tom Dheere voice actor, because I was Inspector Gadget, which also then feeds into well, if he's able to book work like that, he's competent as a voiceover business and marketing coach. So they all feed into each other.  07:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that. You said that you branded on the coattails of another brand and I think that's definitely a strategy. I mean he used to talk about that all the time is that to get credibility? If you are the voice of a brand that is out there and that is heard and seen, then that is your brand right, gaining credibility from another brand, and so it's kind of a strategic partnership. However, I think you can get that strategic partnership. It doesn't necessarily mean like oh, I'm Ann Ganguzza, I have to have blue. That's only a visual part of my brand, that is one part of the encompassing brand when people come to my website. But people if they don't see anything right. So there's a visual part of your brand, there's an audio part of your brand and then there is, I would say, an in-person, physical part of your brand as well that all contributes to who you are and if people decide if they want to work with you or not.  08:20 Right, there's that personality, part of your brand that says I'm reliable, I'm fast, I am accurate. I have the voice that can work with your brand and make it come alive. So there's so many aspects to branding besides, let's say, a website, which is what I think most people think. When they talk about branding, they think, oh, I've got to have that tagline Gosh. I gave up my tagline years ago because it just wasn't pertinent for my particular brand. It just wasn't, and I was out there showing my photograph a long time ago because for me it worked. I felt like people wanted to connect with a person and not necessarily an image of a microphone.  08:59 - Tom Dheere (Host) Sure, it's funny that you say that, because I've been teaching branding for well over 10 years and I've always told my students that branding is telling a story what is the story of you? But also there's usually two ways that you can tell your story as a voice actor from a branding perspective. You can brand your sound or you can brand your personality. So the more distinctive your sound is or the genres that you can do, the easier it is to brand in that direction. If you've got a particularly young voice or particularly deep voice, or if you do movie trailers primarily, or if you do military fiction, audio books exclusively or almost exclusively, it's a lot easier to brand. But the branding of your personality is what is the experience of working with you? So for years I used you as one of my examples of, yes, branding your personality using your tagline are you ready for awesome?  09:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's true. Are you ready for awesome? I like that. I did use that and I haven't used that in a while, so let's talk about that. Tom, tell me, what was it that attracted you to that particular aspect of my brand?  10:06 - Tom Dheere (Host) What attracted me to that is that you were setting expectations of what the experience of working with you was is like. So there's the value promise. Like I said, value promise and value delivery. This is about the value delivery. If you work with me, you're going to have a great experience. You're going to be working with a professional, intelligent, excited, ethical, prepared voice actor. That's what are you ready for. Awesome means to me.  10:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Geez, maybe I'll bring that back, Tom.  10:36 - Tom Dheere (Host) I mean, why not?  10:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that, I like that it meant something to you and yeah, absolutely, and it's not that I actually got rid of it, tom. Before that one, I had Dream Out Loud. That was my tagline, and I thought Dream Out Loud didn't do anything for me, necessarily because Dream Out Loud was kind of more focused on me rather than my client. Right, in terms of like, are they dreaming out loud? No, they need somebody that's not dreaming, they need somebody that can speak. Their brand, right, and so therefore, are you Ready for Awesome, kind of helps out their predicament in a much better way. So, yeah, actually I think that that's a great brand. I'll have to talk to my web person.  11:15 Your webmaster, business coach my webmaster to maybe bring that back. And it doesn't have to be all over my page, right it can be in certain parts of my page or in, let's say, in my signature file. It could be in a lot of different places, but I like that. You're right. It basically tells people this is what you're going to be working with.  11:32 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, and one of the key aspects of any successful brand, regardless of whatever sector that you're in healthcare, automotive, beverages or whatever is that an effective company is able to identify the pain points of the customer. What do you need, what are you struggling with? And then your branding helps you tell the story of how you can solve their problems, how you can address those pain points, how you can cure what ails them, so to speak. Are you ready for awesome is a great way of letting them know that if you work with me, everything's going to be okay, Everything's going to be taken care of, you're going to have an awesome experience and you're going to get what you need, which are quality audio files delivered on time, properly formatted and that help you tell the story of your company's brand most of the time right.  12:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now I do believe that people visually see that text, they read it, they comprehend it. There's also something to be said for your website in general, and we can have a whole other podcast on websites. But I do believe that, like when I go to purchase something from a website, I have to see that website and feel that I trust it and that the people behind that website have a valuable product and I can purchase that without fear that I'm not going to get that product delivered in a timely and quality manner. And so I assess a lot visually the product by looking at a website. If the website is not constructed in a professional manner, of what standards are today, I hesitate to click and buy. And so I do feel that if you are a voice actor that has a website out there and people happen upon your website, at least have it functionally and visually professional enough so that it instills trust in your potential client, so that they can say oh, okay, this looks safe, right For me.  13:31 I mean, gosh, it's like oh, I buy online all the time. I mean this is like the 21st century, right? We buy online all the time. So again, that place where I buy needs to instill trust in me. And now a quick word from our sponsor, which could be me. Hey bosses, are you looking for even more voiceover resources? Head on over to vopeepscom and take a look at our special Vopeeps VIP VIPs membership. You get access to over 350 hours of on-demand video workshops in addition to free live monthly workouts. Plus, you'll get 15% off each monthly VO Peeps workshop in the future. Sign up now at vopeepscom.  14:12 - Speaker 4 (Host) Hi, this is Debra Elaine Fowler sending a huge shout out to Anne for her VO Boss podcast. I've been listening now since the very first episode six years ago, and I always learn something new. The guests are interesting and Anne brings up topics that maybe I haven't thought about. I find myself researching new topics almost every week. Anne, keep it up, I love what you're doing. And now back to the show.  14:38 - Tom Dheere (Host) The website tells the story of you and of the experience they're going to have as a result of working with you, Because they're immediately. Obviously the first thing that happens as they go to the website is they see the website. Yeah, you know what are the colors that?  14:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) come out?  14:51 - Tom Dheere (Host) What are the fonts Right? How is it organized or laid out? What are the colors? What are the fonts? Is it easy to find your demos?  14:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Can I contact this person that's like so important to me?  15:01 - Tom Dheere (Host) Can I contact this person in the way that I want to contact them? Do I want to pick up the phone? Do I want to email them? Do I want to message them on Instagram, or do I want to use their contact form or any of a number of ways? So this tells the story of your competency as a voice actor, and it needs to be consistent. That's why you should be looking up the psychology of color when it comes to establishing a brand. It's like what is the type of voiceover work that you do? How does that reconcile with your personality? How does that reconcile with the needs of the customers that you want to attract? A lot of this stuff is very subconscious or unconscious on the part of voice seekers when they go to your website, but what's there and what isn't there speaks to your brand.  15:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely. And there's something to be said, like there's something almost intangible. When I go to a website and I say oh, oh, I like that, Like it's like pretty packaging, right, I mean.  15:52 I like that package, and so that makes me interested to want to find out more, and if the verbiage on the website helps me to find out more and gets me to where I need to be quickly. Because, again, I don't know. I mean, how many people go around just looking at websites to say, oh, that's a pretty website or, oh, I don't like that website. I mean, really there's a purpose, right, people are shopping around going to a website either finding information.  16:18 Maybe you somehow attracted them to get to your website to find out more about you and your brand and your voice. And if they can get that information easily and it seems to speak to you as being a credible, professional, trustworthy business, product right that they can purchase, then I think that really all has a handle on. It's like a part of the sales funnel, right? I feel like your brand is part of the sales funnel.  16:41 - Tom Dheere (Host) It absolutely is, and that also extends onto your social media platforms and the content that you're creating on the social media platform. If you're trying to brand yourself effectively and consistently, the branding on your social media platforms should line up perfectly with what's going on on your website the font, the logo, the color schemes, the banners, the verbiage and the content that comes out. All of this needs to be consistent Verbiage.  17:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Tom verbiage, and that means if you're on a social media platform and verbiage is coming out of your mouth that isn't necessarily conducive to promoting your brand in a positive way. You might want to think about that. That means if you're going to be controversial or you're going to be spewing verbiage in your social platforms that may be off brand. You might want to consider maybe not doing that or having a completely different brand. I feel like personal brands and voice actor brands are very close.  17:40 It used to be, where, okay, I have a business brand and I'm going to only talk about business on that and I have a personal brand, but I feel like those two brands have really melded together over the years, tom.  17:51 - Tom Dheere (Host) Oh, yes, no, they've completely blurred for a number of reasons. I mean, one reason right now is that if, through your marketing strategies, you've been able to get a voice seeker to go to your social media platforms or to your website, one thing they're trying to determine is are you human?  18:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah or are you an AI? That is slowly becoming more of a consideration for voice seekers, and if you're human, are you a good human.  18:12 - Tom Dheere (Host) And are you a good human there?  18:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) can be human actions that are controversial that would potentially harm their brand if they were to align right Strategically. We talked about strategic alignment with brands If they were to align with your brand right, it could hurt their brand.  18:27 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. That leads me to a great point, Anne, is when it comes to your branding. To be perfectly honest, the vast majority of voice seekers aren't paying any attention to anything we're doing on social media, and they're not paying attention to much that's going on on our website. However, they will vet you. They will check out your brand for the aforementioned AI reason and for exactly what you said because nobody wants to work with a voice actor who is an NDA violator.  18:52 Sure sure, absolutely. And starts talking about auditions that they did for projects that haven't been cast yet.  18:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Or negatively about companies that they've worked with.  19:00 - Tom Dheere (Host) Or client questions, whether it's warranted or not.  19:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh my gosh, whether it's warranted or not, guys, just don't do that.  19:05 - Tom Dheere (Host) I see, specifically audiobook narrators regularly complaining about the publishers because, oh, I didn't get enough of a pronunciation guide or there were too many spelling errors on this manuscript, and I'm just as they're doing it. I'm like, what are you?  19:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) doing yeah yeah, why Because?  19:18 - Tom Dheere (Host) audiobook publishers are the ones that are the most likely to pay attention to your branding and pay attention to your website and pay attention to your social media platform and if you're kvetching about your client like that's a great way to lose a client.  19:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's like anybody complaining about their employer. Right, hr is continually going out online to see if you're making complaints and then that's the first line of fire to get fired if you're speaking negatively. And so even if you think it's private, like in a Facebook group, and it's marked a private group, it's not. Screenshot is like literally a couple of keystrokes away, and even if it says it's private, it's not. We all know things are not private.  20:00 I mean yesterday I happened to be on a family outing at Disney and everything I talked about came up on my Facebook feed just saying so nothing is private. And so really just for your brand's sake, and so I do want to. I know now we've got into the whole what's good for your brand, but let's go back to Tom. If someone is just doing jobs through their agent, is it required that they have a website now and a brand specifically, or maybe not?  20:28 - Tom Dheere (Host) Website yes, brand maybe.  20:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Okay. Maybe, what's on the website then?  20:33 - Tom Dheere (Host) Okay, well, from a branding perspective logo consistency of font on the logo itself and the tagline and with the verbiage on the website the color scheme that you have established on this logo needs to align with the color scheme that is on the homepage and all the other pages, unless there's a possibility you've branded yourself based on genre or subgenre.  20:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Is this for voice actors who are managed or who have talent, agents only, or is this?  21:00 - Tom Dheere (Host) It's a great question. I can't speak to what voice seekers that work through managers and agents are doing. How much are they vetting the voice actors that are represented by the agents and managers that they're working with? Most of the time they're probably not. It's usually just send me these auditions. We'll pick the person that we think is the best who vocally represents this company brand message.  21:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Unless you're well-known, I would say right as a video game, character or an animation, character and then I think, your brand is important online. Right your actions in your social media. I'm thinking Daniel Ross, who recently, you know, is now the voice of Donald Duck. Bob Bergen has the voice of Porky. Pig, I mean and Christina Milizia, who I just interviewed as well on this podcast, and Christina Milizia who?  21:41 I just interviewed as well on this podcast the characters that they represent. She has to be careful. They have to be careful what they do online and also their actions, because a lot of them might go to cons and do autograph signing, and so that's an in-person branding as well, so they have to be very careful about their brand.  21:58 - Tom Dheere (Host) Okay, there are two groups of voice actors. There's public figures and private figures. Public figures in voiceover are those who do cartoons, video games and audiobooks. Okay, because if you're an audiobook narrator, you're being followed by authors, rights holders and listeners of the audiobooks. Okay, and it's a very public thing because these are very front-facing products audiobooks, cartoon and video game voice actors are also public figures, also just because of the fan base. The fan base really wants to know and loves to adore and follow the voice actors who are the voices of their favorite cartoon and video game characters. Everybody else is kind of clumped into the private voice actors. With the exception of, for me, inspector Gadget, red Dead Redemption and a handful of other things. I'm primarily a private voice actor. So me talking about my e-learning and her explainer experience online, nobody cares, nobody cares that?  22:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Tom Dheere. I'll tell you what his e-learning module.  23:03 - Tom Dheere (Host) That HR video he narrated oh for God's sakes. Like nobody does that. Nobody does that, nobody cares, nobody cares about that. And yes, that, nobody does that, nobody cares, nobody cares about that. And yes, your branding should be influenced by that Absolutely. So you want to be careful. So if you're a private voice actor, yeah, don't be an NDA violator. Don't be a client basher. Don't be some religious political whack job.  23:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's all you have to worry about. And even if you're a public figure in a way that you don't think like because I know there are people who are out there that troll. I've been trolled. If you're out there as a coach, as a demo producer, I guess you can say if you've been trolled, you've made it.  23:39 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, because then, so you actually matter. I matter in a way, but yes, I've been trolled and that's very upsetting, but Tom, I'm sure you've been trolled too, Maybe.  23:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I don't know if Inspector Gadget has, but I mean Inspector Gadget.  23:51 - Tom Dheere (Host) I only got trolled in that. I'll just put it to you this way. There was one person who hated my performance so much that they took the trailer for the Inspector Gadget video game and replaced my voice with Don Adams, who was the original Inspector Gadget. So You've made it Tom, congratulations actually I'll take that as a proper trolling. There you go.  24:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I guess then, in essence, tom, I know you've evolved over the years with your views on branding. You don't know if it's as necessary, or maybe just branding in general has evolved. I still feel like, in this sea of voice actors, if somebody is going to see you online, then brand is important.  24:29 If you're not necessarily online, if maybe you're part-time and hey, there's a lot of amazing talent that we hear every single day on national spots that don't have websites that I don't even know. We don't even know who they are, right, Because they don't need to have that brand. So I tend to agree with you and I think that we have to continually be educated about what's important for your business when it comes to being recognized. Now, what about voice actors that are new to the industry? Is it important that they have a branded website, that they have a tagline? Is it important that they have a headshot?  25:07 - Tom Dheere (Host) Okay, I think at first it's a terrible idea. I think it's a terrible, terrible idea because what drew them to the voiceover industry may not necessarily be what keeps them in the voiceover industry. In other words, they may not be any good at what they want to do and they may turn out to be really good at something that they don't want to do. So from a branding perspective-.  25:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They don't know their brand yet.  25:28 - Tom Dheere (Host) They don't know their branding because they don't know what they can book. So if you're early in your voiceover journey, us bosses are taking a little pressure off. You Don't worry about branding yet Book gigs.  25:38 See what the voiceover industry tells you are the types of genres and subgenres in the markets that you can book Then you can build a brand around that because if that's something that's bankable, if people are willing to give you money to say this kind of voiceover work, then you can build a reputation on that because, like we said, branding, storytelling, reputation all of these things are intertwined. So just to have a basic, nondescript website with your contact information, basic information about you and downloadable demos which is the most important thing to have on a website- yes, absolutely.  26:12 Then let the branding come about you and downloadable demos, which is the most important thing to have on a website. Yes, absolutely. Then let the branding come to you and then you can and you're talking visual branding. Visual branding.  26:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, I'm going to say vocal branding. I'm very much into vocal branding, depending on what genre you study with me, right. So vocally branding, that's something that you can have a good coach help you with, because they're going to help and you will discover that vocal branding in the beginning.  26:34 For whatever genre you're studying Now, that doesn't mean that you won't evolve over time right To have more vocal brands. I think you can have multiple brands that are related, but you cannot, like, if you're a young person and you sound young right, for the entirety of the time that you are younger, for a few years at least, you're going to be more of that youthful sound, probably if that's how you've been vocally branded. So I think if you're new it helps to have a good coach to help vocally brand you. But visual branding and you're right, tom, as you go you'll find out. What do you get hired for? Right, I never thought about medical and all of a sudden I started getting hired for medical and now, oh well, that makes sense now because I used to work in the medical field. So you know something I didn't know before.  27:21 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yeah, what a great coach like you can help people with is what celebrities do you sound like? What sectors of the voiceover industry can you get work in? You know there's commercials in general, but then there's automotive in particular, or home and family products, or alcohol, or boots you know what I mean or cowboy boots or whatever that sort of thing. Anne can definitely help you with that. And then when you are positioning yourself, and then when Anne helps you make your demo, it can help with that vocal positional branding. So the spots that you would do on a demo with Anne would align with the celebrities that you can sound like. Not imitations, but just like reminiscent of.  27:58 You know what I mean. I'll give you an example For me right now. For the past year or so it's been Ryan Reynolds. I've been booking spots because I have a Ryan Reynolds sound.  28:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, you do.  28:08 - Tom Dheere (Host) A voice actor just connected with me on LinkedIn and said do you know that you sound like Ryan Reynolds and I don't have that branding anywhere on my website. I'm seriously considering doing it because these casting notices that tend to have the Ryan Reynolds celebrity reference I'm booking. So that may be something I would need to consider. But again, that's the industry. At this point in my journey, that's the industry telling me, because Ryan Reynolds wasn't a factor when I started in the 90s. But if I was starting now and working with Anne, she's got a good enough ear to know that like, yeah, you got kind of a Ryan Reynolds sound. Maybe we should get kind of these kind of quirky, fun, cute little spots on your demo to showcase that particular sound.  28:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely Well. That was a very involved branding conversation but I love it, I love it. I feel like we still could go on, and, on, and on. But, thank you, tom. So much for that. Guys, I'm going to give a big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too, can network and connect like bosses like Tom and myself. Find out more at IPdtlcom. Have an amazing week, guys, and we will see you next week. Thanks so much.  29:20 - Intro (Announcement) Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry-rev, revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Anne welcomes Heidi Rew, commercial voice actor and co-founder of Atlanta VoiceOver Studio. Heidi shares her journey from radio to voiceover and offers insights on booking jobs and finding success in the industry. The BOSSES emphasize the importance of perseverance and training, highlighting their own experience of steady climbs in the industry. They also discuss the qualities of a good coach and the value of personalized instruction. They advise newcomers to discover their unique voice and niche through training and collecting feedback. The BOSSES share their thoughts on overcoming self-doubt and the importance of perseverance in the voice acting industry. They emphasize the need to uncover personal insecurities and fears in order to succeed in business The BOSSES also discuss the importance of demos, online presence, and easy accessibility for potential clients. Anne (00:01.142) Hey everyone, welcome to the V.O. Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am so excited to have very special guest, Heidi Rew, joining us to the show. Hey Heidi, yay! Oh, awesome. So a little bit of information about Heidi for the bosses who are not familiar with her. She started her career on air in radio, but was introduced to voiceover by her coworker who eventually turned into her husband. Heidi Rew (00:12.922) Hey, Anne! So glad to be here. Anne (00:29.922) She is mainly a commercial voice actor and has voiced national TV commercials for Jiffy Lube, Secrets Resorts, Redfin, Kohl's, Danimals, and Baker's Chocolate, excuse me, and probably many, many more. And about eight years ago, she and her husband started the Atlanta VoiceOver Studio, a training and recording studio. Heidi, thank you so much for being with us today. It's so exciting. Heidi Rew (00:54.092) Oh, I am so excited to be here, Ann. And we already talked, Ann already talked, she was our guest on the Atlanta VoiceOver Studio podcast. And it was so good, we had to do a part two, which is the first time that's ever happened. So yes, I'm so excited to be here, Ann. Anne (01:09.166) Well, thank you so much. And I'm actually going to just turn around and ask you some of the same questions that you asked me. For those bosses who are not familiar with Atlanta VoiceOver Studio and Heidi, why don't you start off by talking a little bit about yourself and what that journey was like going from radio to VO? Heidi Rew (01:15.77) Okay. Heidi Rew (01:25.654) Yeah. Yep. I always wanted to go into radio. That was kind of my career goal. And this handsome coworker came in my studio one day and was like, hey, do you do voiceover? Because I could listen to your voice all day. And I know. He always says that's like his one and only line. But it worked. And he told me all about the voiceover industry, kind of got me going. Anne (01:44.754) What a line. I love it. I love it. Heidi Rew (01:55.554) And I really did think, oh, this will just be something that I do on the side. And then five, six years after that, things were changing at the radio station. And at that time, then Mike and I were married. And so to find on-air jobs in another city for both of you is really, really almost impossible. And so. Anne (02:13.527) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (02:20.19) things had just changed and Mike was like, why don't you just quit and just do voiceover and on camera stuff full time? And so that's what I did. And there we go. Anne (02:28.658) And there you go. Now, when we were talking before, we were discussing about agents, and it took you four years to book a job with your first Atlanta agent. Let's talk about that journey, because I'll tell you, for me, when I started, I'm gonna date myself, I literally, I was working for four years before I even thought. Heidi Rew (02:36.059) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (02:39.622) Yep. Mm-hmm. Anne (02:53.406) about an agent because back then we didn't really have like Facebook groups or there was there wasn't a lot of ways to communicate with other people in the industry, which I believe is one of the reasons why you might have started your studio as well to like see people face to face and Heidi Rew (02:57.088) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (03:07.075) Yeah. Heidi Rew (03:10.734) Yes, totally, and have that community. Yeah, I had a great agent here in Atlanta. And I would get auditions and everything, and just wouldn't book. And I thought, I really suck at this, obviously. And I would ask my agent, I said, you know, gosh, why? Anne (03:12.939) Yeah. Anne (03:18.091) Mm-hmm. Anne (03:22.903) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (03:30.026) Richard, it was Richard Hutchison management who's, he's retired at this point, but I said Richard, why haven't you dropped me at this point? You know, and he said Heidi, because you're doing good auditions. It just sometimes takes time. Just keep going, keep going. And I did. And then year five was when I started booking a lot. It's when I booked a national spot that ran three years, gave a sag health insurance for three years. Anne (03:32.215) Mm-hmm. Anne (03:41.91) Mmm. Mm-hmm. Anne (03:54.754) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (03:56.162) So it was just one of those things where it just took some time. And I had some other clients on the sides from self-marketing and a smaller agency that I was with in Florida. But yeah. Anne (04:03.817) Mm-hmm. Anne (04:07.862) Now do you think that it had, I mean, was there, was it possible that maybe you were needing feedback? I'm assuming four years your performance, you know, was improved, you know, and that is, takes a lot of resilience sometimes. I mean, I remember my early career as well too, and it was difficult. I mean, when you didn't get feedback or you didn't book, it was kind of like, oh my gosh, now. Heidi Rew (04:16.995) Oh yeah. Heidi Rew (04:21.658) Yeah. Heidi Rew (04:24.986) Mm-hmm. Anne (04:36.734) Now what do I do? I mean, do I even belong in this industry? I mean, did you ever run into any of those feelings? Yeah. Heidi Rew (04:39.154) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (04:42.794) Oh gosh, yeah. I mean, I would tell Mike, like, you liar. No, I'm just kidding. Like, what in the world? I don't have a good voice, obviously. But he really was always, he's always been an encourager of mine. But a big part of it was, you know, I was doing radio full time, full time. And also, you know, I was on air, so I was doing like events on the weekend. I mean, it was busy. And so I really. Anne (04:47.524) Hahaha! Mm-hmm. Anne (05:02.187) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (05:09.322) voiceover was a side thing. I didn't do the kind of training that I needed to do to get to that level. I was very lucky to even get on with Richard at the very beginning because, I mean, you know, all I had kind of was Mike's training and tutelage. And that is why I say to so many people, too, that, you know, one, you never know how long it's going to take to book, so keep going. But also, right, but also, Anne (05:11.106) Mm-hmm. Anne (05:16.514) Mm. Anne (05:24.76) Mm-hmm. Anne (05:32.142) Right? For that overnight success. Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (05:36.982) you do need to train and I, you know, if I had trained more, who knows that four years could have been shortened to a much shorter time frame. Anne (05:41.559) Mm-hmm. Anne (05:45.91) Well, you know, it's so interesting because, you know, I just was looking at your website again, and your studio offers, gosh, everything. And you have a team of coaches that basically covers every genre. You know, I think anything that anybody ever would want to do in voiceover, you guys cover at your studio. So let's talk about coaching because we had a discussion about it on your podcast. What is it that you feel Heidi Rew (05:56.08) Yeah. Anne (06:17.387) key qualities or qualifications of a good coach and what you look for your own team and for yourself. Heidi Rew (06:19.407) Yeah. Heidi Rew (06:23.83) Yeah, well, you know, first of all, one of the things that we really look for is for people that have a heart to teach and that aren't just in there to make extra money or to be known that they really care about the students that they're trying to reach. And then a big part of that is we Anne (06:33.996) Mm. Heidi Rew (06:48.898) With Atlanta Voice over Studio, we have three values that we run our decisions through and really have just kind of been the compass for our business. And one of those values is grace. And Mike and I define that as meeting people where they're at. And so we always talk about that with the instructors of like, you have no idea where somebody is gonna come in, whether they walk through the door or they appear on the screen. Anne (07:03.691) I love that. Anne (07:12.106) Yeah. Heidi Rew (07:14.458) You know, you have no idea where they're at. And so our goal is to find out where they're at and how do we get them at least one step closer to their goal, if not two steps. But that's the goal. It's like really meeting people where they're at, which was huge during COVID. Like that, oh my gosh, that was so helpful to remember. So those are some of the biggest things and just being able to really personalize the... Anne (07:23.086) Mm-hmm. Anne (07:30.878) Oh my goodness, yes. Heidi Rew (07:43.01) the instruction to each person, which kind of goes with that meeting people where they're at. It's just not everybody responds to the same type of technique or you know what I mean? Like you really have to find what works for that person, you know? Anne (07:45.205) Mm. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Anne (07:48.938) Sure. Yeah. Anne (07:54.414) True. Very true. Anne (08:00.702) Yeah, and it's very much a personal journey, I think. Because it is a creative journey, and I do feel that that. Heidi Rew (08:04.868) Yes. Anne (08:10.934) Gosh, everybody reacts to it differently. Everybody learns in a different way. And I know that just from my years of teaching in front of the class, that you do have all different types of students. And I think it's even more important to meet them where they are when you're talking about something as a creative endeavor that is so deeply personal to them. Because any, you know, any... Heidi Rew (08:20.804) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (08:28.098) Yes. Yeah. Anne (08:34.218) any frustration or any kind of like, you know, roadblock can be really devastating. And that can, you know, that can affect performance like this. And so I think it's so important that you have teachers who care that I love that, that you have, I mean, that's where I always talk about. Heidi Rew (08:41.064) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (08:45.57) Oh my gosh, yeah. Yes. Anne (08:54.238) My students with eLearning, you've got to be that teacher that has a heart that cares. And that's important when you're... It's a journey you're taking these students on. And it's a delicate journey. Yeah. Heidi Rew (08:58.364) Mm-hmm, yeah. Heidi Rew (09:03.962) Yeah. Yes. Because your voice, that is really important. And there have been some people that come in that have been told certain things about their voice or believed certain things about their voice that are not right or not correct. And to be able to show them, like, hey, you actually have power in your voice. And you thought that maybe you didn't, or you thought that it was. Anne (09:15.547) Mm-hmm. Anne (09:24.438) Mm. Anne (09:31.303) Yeah, yeah. Heidi Rew (09:33.65) You know, some of the biggest ones that we've had come through the studio is like I always Was kind of told that I was weak because of the way that I sounded Man that does that does something? Yeah That is hard. So to be able to help them discover that and how do you? How do you find that empowerment through your own voice? You know, that's That's really crucial Anne (09:42.374) Mmm. That's a hard, that's hard to take. Yeah, gosh. Mm-hmm. Anne (09:56.844) Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. So then let's talk a little bit about then as they're on their journey discovering, like where, you know, thinking about where do they feel the most passion or joy or where does their voice fit in the industry? What advice can you give, let's say people just entering in this industry in order to find their niche? And I don't know if like, I think niches can be ever evolving, I don't know about you, but you know. Heidi Rew (10:15.182) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (10:23.458) Yeah. Heidi Rew (10:27.939) Oh, 100%. Yeah. Anne (10:28.994) How do they discover that? What's your best advice for that? Heidi Rew (10:32.894) So one of the things that we do that's really important, but you can do this whether you're working with a private coach or whatever, but we have one of our foundational training is called the Beginner VoiceOver Intensive, and it's a three month thing. It has like this curriculum that goes with it. So one of the weeks that we do, you go into the booth to record and you do just a bunch of different spots that are in different types of tones and specs and everything. Anne (10:57.719) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (11:00.022) And then your class and the instructor will write down what they feel like is your natural three top reads. Just you as yourself and that you can just, as you're speaking, it just comes so naturally. You don't have to push it or force it or anything. And then they also write down descriptions about your voice. So maybe it's like, you know, Anne (11:09.158) Mm. Mm-hmm. Anne (11:17.614) Sure. Heidi Rew (11:27.314) grandfather that always has a funny joke. You know what I mean? Like it's like that warmth caring but also he can be funny and you know what I mean witty. So they write down all that stuff so then that person that comes out of the booth they have all this vocabulary of some of their strengths with their voice right which is kind of just the step one of figuring out like where do I fit you know what is that uniqueness that I can bring to the table. Anne (11:30.955) Mm-hmm. Anne (11:43.571) Yeah. Anne (11:50.812) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (11:55.334) So you can do that even with like a private coach. They can help you discover that. But another thing that's really important, I think, is just be a collector of data, you know, yourself. And because it's, we forget so quickly when people give us like specific encouragement or things of like, oh, I really love, you know. Anne (12:08.289) Yeah. Anne (12:18.698) Mm. Heidi Rew (12:22.294) the way that you've got that texture in your voice. It kind of feels like a warm blanket or whatever. Anytime somebody says something about your voice, write it down. Collect that data because then you're going to have this whole data set of stuff that you're like, oh, this is me. This is who I am. This is what I can bring to the table. And then when you do that, then you can kind of figure out, okay, what is, what are the specific genres that maybe Anne (12:25.08) Mm-hmm. Anne (12:32.911) Mmm, great idea. Anne (12:42.19) Mm-hmm. Anne (12:50.379) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (12:51.627) that I would fit in the best. So, yeah. Anne (12:53.214) Yeah, that would cater to those qualities. Yeah, it's so hard to assess. It's kind of like, I think that's why self-direction is so difficult, right? I mean, you have to assess where you're at by yourself. And I think that I love the fact that you have a whole class where you have other ears involved in the process and other people helping, saying, well, this is what I hear. And it can really help you to help define where your space can be and where your niche can be. Heidi Rew (13:05.437) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (13:16.315) Mm-hmm. Anne (13:22.826) and also where you might want to grow. Because I think there are a lot of times somebody will say something about your voice that you didn't expect. Like somebody will say, oh my God, that's a great character. And I'm like, but me? I've never thought about doing character work or animation work or that kind of a thing. So I think that the process with a great coach or another set of ears that can help you. Heidi Rew (13:22.894) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (13:33.818) Mmm. Heidi Rew (13:44.409) Mm-hmm. Anne (13:46.382) to establish that can really help you to grow and then can help you to develop your ear. I think there's a whole science to developing an ear, which is it doesn't, that doesn't happen overnight. Heidi Rew (13:49.134) Yes. Heidi Rew (13:52.63) Yes. Yeah. Heidi Rew (13:58.006) No, I still feel like I'm fine tuning my ear. And as things change, you know what I mean? Like I've grown up learning that polished sound and that polished sound in commercial is just like, so many people don't want the polished sound. And it is so hard to like make sure that I'm hearing the right things, yeah. Cause I wanna default to that, so. Anne (14:01.01) Yeah. Oh, right. Yeah. Anne (14:06.951) Mm-hmm. Anne (14:13.866) Yeah, yeah. Not be perfect. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's so interesting. So outside of performance, right, what would you say are key factors for any boss out there in order to grow their business? What sorts of things outside of, of course, keeping their performance, you know, and I say coaching and training all the time, but what else is important for a successful business? Heidi Rew (14:44.71) Yeah. So personally for me, I am all about relationships. That has been one of the things that has helped me create a sustainable full-time voiceover career. It really is. Not only do I seek out relationships and I don't seek them out for like, oh, what can you give me? But I have the mentality of like, give more than you can, more than you get. Anne (14:51.531) Mmm. Anne (15:06.164) Mm-hmm. Anne (15:14.375) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (15:14.682) But I just think that the more relationships that I have and the more people that I know, the more potential opportunity is gonna come my way, because of people that they work with, people that they know, they like and they trust. And so I am really a big proponent on creating those relationships and maintaining those relationships as best as possible over the longterm. And that has been... Anne (15:24.502) Mm. Mm-hmm. Anne (15:28.415) Mm-hmm. Anne (15:38.168) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Heidi Rew (15:41.654) That has been one of the biggest things that during times where things aren't, I'm not booking as many commercials or whatever, that those clients come back. It's just like, it feels like magic. Yes. Anne (15:53.098) right, in those lulls. Because I think the biggest difference, right, in our businesses is that, you know, as opposed to it, because I worked in the corporate world, you know, I expected that paycheck and got that paycheck every other week. And now all of a sudden, we've got, you know, our own business, which, ooh, now we got to hustle. We got to go get that business. We have to nurture those relationships. And we have to sustain, which I think you said the word sustainability, which I really love, because over the years, I mean, my gosh. Our overnight success, which for me has been how many years? Like 10, something like that. I mean, it's been sticking with it. Talk to me a little bit because you've been in the industry for a long time. What is it that you say, what would you say is key to success in terms of having a career that can continually, I guess, evolve along with the times and be sustained for a long time? Heidi Rew (16:26.769) Right. Heidi Rew (16:30.811) Yeah. Heidi Rew (16:46.61) Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I want to share really quick this, I don't know if you've ever read James Clear's Atomic Habits book. It's so good. But he gives an example of bamboo. And bamboo, if you've ever seen, there's a bamboo forest here in Atlanta that's on this beautiful hike. And it's just so gorgeous. It's so tall and everything. Well, bamboo, when they first are planted, you don't see hardly anything for five years. Anne (16:55.398) I have not. Anne (17:04.96) Mm-hmm. Anne (17:15.467) Mmm. Heidi Rew (17:15.598) and then all of a sudden within six weeks, they shoot up like, I don't know how, I'm gonna say 90 feet, that's not true. You can fact check me on that if we have fact check. Anyways, it's something along those lines, very, very tall, in about six weeks. And the reason why is because they develop such a strong root system. Anne (17:23.607) That's tall. That's tall. Anne (17:34.461) Mmm Heidi Rew (17:35.314) that that's what they're doing in that five years. So you don't even see you're like, what's going on? Nothing's going on. And actually a lot is going on so that way they can stay strong for years and years. So that's part of it is, I think, you know, creating a good foundation. But I think the other part and I think this is really true and I don't I can't give anybody a certain like applicable thing to do to discover this. But the problem about. Anne (17:42.122) Wow, yeah, I love that. Heidi Rew (18:04.558) becoming a voice talent, especially if you're in another, you know, job or whatever, is that it's all on you to do every, you are the business, right? And sometimes the biggest hindrance to growth is ourselves and things that we find ourselves doing, you know. For me, I, one, I want people to like me. I want to do a really good job. Like I don't ever want to not do a good job, obviously. Anne (18:14.058) Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Anne (18:21.07) Mm-hmm. Anne (18:32.973) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (18:34.886) And I can get really caught up on my performance and it just makes me want to go I'm done. This is too much I want to quit well that has nothing to do with my business. It has nothing to do with numbers It has nothing to do with data. It's all on me my own Insecurities my own you know fears about things so I think that The more that I'm able to uncover things about myself like little hiccups that I put my own way Anne (18:45.27) Mmm. Heidi Rew (19:01.99) actually the better my business is, you know, and it's just it's easier to not have to face those. I think when you are in another business where there's a lot of other people coming to your aid, you know, and being able to do things and, you know, make up for your weaknesses and everything. Anne (19:12.147) Oh yeah, absolutely. Anne (19:20.01) You know, it's such a thing when we talk about, you know, having moments of doubt and wanting to give up and wanting to quit. I mean, you know, self-sabotage. I mean, we talk about that quite a bit. I mean, what can you, what's your best advice? What can you say to those bosses out there that are just, they're like frustrated. I, you know, I'm not booking any work. I can't continue to, you know, fund. Heidi Rew (19:32.486) Yeah. Anne (19:47.334) this career if I'm not making any money at it. Because that just happens quite a bit. I hear that a lot from talent. Heidi Rew (19:54.83) Yeah, of course, of course. I heard there's a wonderful psychologist, Angela Duckworth. She's written books and everything. And she said something that I will never forget. And this one thing will help so much. She said, don't quit on a bad day. If you're having a bad day and you want to quit, do not quit on that day. Now, if you have a great day and you just booked a great thing and you still want to quit, OK. Anne (20:11.906) Mmm. Heidi Rew (20:24.39) Then quit, because you know that it is, it's not the challenges that are coming your way, but it's just the actual job itself. But if it's those challenges and those hard days, push through, because I mean, there are, I still have days like that, and I'm how long into my career? Like, it's crazy. And you think, and I think. Anne (20:41.578) Right? Isn't that true? Like, and we've been in this forever, right? And we still have days. Heidi Rew (20:49.314) If people looked at it, you're like, but you're making a great full-time income from this job. And there are still days that I want to quit. And I just think, OK, you know what? I don't quit on a bad day. And then also, sometimes I do quit just for the day. You know, I'm like, Anne (20:54.442) Mm-hmm. Anne (21:02.879) I like that. Don't quit on a bad day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, I like that. I'm quitting for the day. Heidi Rew (21:10.046) I am, I'm either burnt out or I've got just too much. I need to quit for today. I need to go on a walk. I need to do something else for my mental health. And then tomorrow, jump back in. Anne (21:12.607) Mm-hmm. Anne (21:23.102) Yeah, I like that. So what are some important tools that you would recommend for voice actors in order to further their career? Heidi Rew (21:34.822) So I will say that I have had a CRM since I started, but let me tell you, this CRM is, I mean, it's Google Sheets. Like that was my CRM for years. And I honestly, and yeah, and same, I'm literally right before we got on here, I've been trying. Anne (21:42.145) Mmm. Anne (21:49.334) Yeah, yeah, yeah. My name is Google, too. That was my CRM. It actually still is. OK. Ha, ha. Heidi Rew (22:01.382) to migrate all of my clients over to Voice Over View. Because listen, my system works for me. I get it. The only problem is a search function. I don't like that because I love to be able to go, I don't have a great memory. And so I mean, I just had a session where I booked a job. And the guy was like, hey, Heidi, we worked together years ago on this. And I'm like, ugh. Anne (22:05.011) Uh huh, uh huh. Anne (22:08.992) Yes. Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (22:28.654) So I'm typing in word war, you know what I mean? Like who did I, what was this? And I found it, it was fine, and I have all my notes there, but I really do need to be able to quickly search things. Because two, if you've been in this business, you probably are the same way for a long time. The people that are at one company that you worked with years ago, they may be at a completely different company. And so you need to be able to reference things and search things. Anne (22:29.559) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh gosh, yeah. Anne (22:40.162) quickly get to it. Mm-hmm. Anne (22:50.122) Yeah, yeah, mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (22:56.618) So that CRM says no matter what you do, have a way to track your clients. Have a way to track your clients. And don't get frustrated if it's not perfect or whatever, but just start doing it. Start putting those notes in there. Because again, relationships, that's so big. And if you get to the point where you're booking a ton, it's really hard to keep track. I know it sounds so weird, but it's just like, I can't. Anne (23:03.263) Yeah, that's yeah. Anne (23:22.592) Yeah. Heidi Rew (23:23.138) Remember this the guy that I was talking to about his kids softball game that weekend that I would love to mention to him You know in the follow-up email And so you really so that's that would be my first tool for sure and then the second tool to be honest with you and I would say maybe you can't do this at the very beginning of your career, but a bookkeeper Anne (23:29.558) Mm-hmm. Anne (23:49.338) Oh gosh, I'm right there with you. Right there with you. I say over and over again, my accountant is the best investment I ever made in my business. Yep. Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (23:53.422) I mean, and I- Heidi Rew (23:59.126) 100% I agree. I agree. I mean, I, when I was learning QuickBooks, I mean, I remember crying at the table in front of my CPA and accountant, like I was like, I just, I didn't make, make it make sense, you know. It was so, so hard. And so it is, oh my gosh. Anne (24:08.862) Oh god, I know. Anne (24:19.486) And it's tedious too. It's not, if it doesn't bring you joy, outsource it. That's what I say. Ha ha. Heidi Rew (24:25.63) And do you like reconciling? Because I hate it. I hate it and it is the easiest thing. It's like, come on. Anne (24:28.174) No, I hate it. I hate it with a passion, but my accountant loves it. I mean, that's why they're an accountant for a career. They love numbers, for the most part. Yeah, I can't stand it. Yeah. Heidi Rew (24:35.522) Exactly. Oh my gosh. I hate it. I would just dread it. I would put it off and then all of a sudden at the end of the year I have to reconcile like months and I'm like okay. Anne (24:45.218) And I've had my accountant, I want to say, for a good eight years or so. She knows me so well. She knows my business so well, which is really wonderful. And she's not anywhere near me. So we use QuickBooks online. And literally, the two of us can meet once a week or every other week. Heidi Rew (24:49.654) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (24:57.922) Yeah. Anne (25:02.13) to kind of go over things and she can generate numbers for me. She does my taxes. I mean my taxes I don't even have to prep anything. That's the cool thing is that you know before it was like Oh my god tax season was just you know the end of the year would come and I'd be like Oh god, I've got to get everything together And I've got to somehow figure out how to do and QuickBooks keeps updating and you know It's like trying to make things simpler, but I don't like it and so it's just like I don't want to spend time Yes Heidi Rew (25:09.186) Right. Heidi Rew (25:17.529) Yeah. Heidi Rew (25:25.654) Yeah. So what we're saying is don't quit on a bad day or on tax day because it can get better. Anne (25:32.062) Yes, or on tax day. I can't tell you though how wonderful it was to have taxes done, you know, so. Quickly, I mean, literally, I just said, hey, it's April. Are we all set? She goes, yeah, I'll have your numbers tomorrow. Literally, it was like, oh, god, I didn't have to really organize anything. Every time I would get something in the mail, my forms, I would just forward them to her. She had it, and it was just, boom, she was able to do it. And it was wonderful. So those are some good business tools, a CRM and an accountant. Anything else? What about, let's talk about, Heidi Rew (25:40.728) Yeah. Heidi Rew (25:51.492) Yeah. Heidi Rew (26:02.906) Yes. Yeah. Anne (26:10.364) What about demos? I mean, I consider a demo a portfolio of your product, and your product is your voice. Let's talk about demos. How important are they these days? There's been some discussion out there about how important really is the demo. I mean, isn't the audition more important? What do you think? Heidi Rew (26:11.252) Yeah. Heidi Rew (26:16.182) Yes. Yeah. Let's talk about. Heidi Rew (26:22.734) Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, I think that the demo is still important for a lot of different reasons. I mean, one, if you do want to get on with an agent, you need a good demo. And it needs to be really, really good. Anne (26:38.518) Yeah, kinda need a demo. Because you can't audition at every second of the day. And your demo is kind of there as the representative voice of you when you're not available to audition at the very second that a client might want to hear your voice. Heidi Rew (26:45.187) right. Heidi Rew (26:50.342) Right. Yeah. Plus, I think that being able to be ready for a demo, and I'm speaking more, I will say I'm not an expert on a lot of the demos, but commercial demo, you know, we do at Atlanta VoiceOver Studio. We let everybody else do all the other stuff. But also, that's kind of your way of going, I'm ready to do this. Like, as a talent, I feel like when Anne (27:06.647) Mm-hmm. Anne (27:16.63) Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (27:21.426) to do a commercial demo, then it also shows to you, like you need to be able to, it's kind of like just showing your work, like I'm ready, look, and here's what I can do, yeah. You know, we, so we actually, we used to have like a long wait list for our demos, and now we hardly, we don't have a wait list, and part of it is because we put all these like barriers for people. Anne (27:29.598) Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Here's my work, yeah. Anne (27:40.279) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (27:46.394) before they did their demo. So I think people are scared. They're like, oh gosh, there's a lot of work to get to that. But we're like, well, you know what? That's fine. We're not out to be a demo factory. Anne (27:48.125) Mmm. Anne (27:55.606) Well, I kind of really respect that because, you know what I mean? It's one of those things where nobody will ever come and say, well, you guys are just a demo mill. And that there are prerequisites. I mean, I always put a big, huge disclaimer saying, I'm not gonna produce a demo if you're not ready because you need to be able to replicate that sound. I mean, and so I do feel demos are an important tool. Heidi Rew (28:04.974) No. Heidi Rew (28:09.185) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (28:14.455) Right. Heidi Rew (28:19.042) Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Yep. Heidi Rew (28:25.488) Yes. Anne (28:25.99) for a business. What else? What about, I mean, I feel like every voice actor needs to have an online presence. Website slash social media slash... Heidi Rew (28:32.994) I 100% agree with that. Yes, you need to have a website. So with Atlanta Voice Over Studio, we have these industry pro workouts where we'll bring in agents or creative directors or casting directors or whatever. I've had several people that have been our industry pro that have said, you know what? We wanted to book somebody. Anne (28:45.329) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (28:55.586) We couldn't find them. Or they're like, I love this voice, and then we couldn't find them. They had no website. We couldn't search for them. You need to be searchable these days. You need to be searchable. Anne (28:57.402) Ah, interesting. Mm-hmm, yeah. Mm-hmm. That's a wonderful, yeah, I love that you brought that up because I mean, I host workouts as well with agents and casting directors and yeah, an online presence, a website, and a way to get to your demo or a sample that can be downloaded and passed around. Heidi Rew (29:20.23) Yes. Yeah. Anne (29:23.73) I think I can't tell you the amount of times I've gone to a website and you can't download their demo or there's not an easy way to get in touch with them. Like where's the contact information or there's a form somebody has to fill out. And I'm like I just really give me an email address or a phone number or you know so that I can I can get in touch quickly because you don't want to make it too hard for somebody to get in touch with you and everything. But I'm afraid to maybe post my phone number to for spam. I'm like really? Like I mean you're a business. You're a business. Heidi Rew (29:32.203) Yes. Heidi Rew (29:38.312) I know, yeah. Heidi Rew (29:44.343) Right. Heidi Rew (29:50.706) I have my number, phone number up there, I know. I agree, I agree. Yeah. Anne (29:54.826) a phone number or some way to get in touch with you. I mean, I will say that I literally, this is on a personal note, there have been some vendors, some very large vendors that have foregone phone support and gone completely digital where they'll have like a chat bot on their website, which I think is fine. But when you've got those problems or those questions, or you need to contact them for, you know, something that isn't covered by their chat bot, Heidi Rew (30:09.873) Hmm. Heidi Rew (30:17.967) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (30:23.247) Yeah. Anne (30:24.31) Being able to contact somebody either in a Zoom, a video meeting or a phone call is really, really helpful. And a lot of companies I know to save money have foregone that tech support or that phone support. And I will say right now, I don't know if that's gonna last very long because there are always those conditions where people need to get in touch with you, like quickly. Heidi Rew (30:31.776) Yeah. Heidi Rew (30:39.067) Hmm. Heidi Rew (30:49.154) Yeah. And this is for vendors. No voice talent have done it, right? Or. Anne (30:52.96) Yeah. Well, I always, I mean, I make sure that people can get in touch with me in any which way. I'm like, here's my email, here's a phone number, here's a Zoom link, here's a Source Connect link, here's an IPDTL link. Go ahead, get in touch with me. And I deal with spam. Yeah, I deal with spam, you know, and it's just, it's just it. I mean, there's lots of spam protection filters in place. So for me, I would rather have somebody be able to get in touch with me because gosh, they might want to hire me. But. Heidi Rew (30:58.926) Right. Yeah. I agree. Heidi Rew (31:08.546) I know. I even put it on my social accounts too. Heidi Rew (31:14.358) Yep. Mm-hmm. Yep. Heidi Rew (31:20.218) Yeah, of course. Do you think that it matters what type of genre you're into? Because I know commercials, I mean, they move so fast. I lost a job just the other weekend because I couldn't do it. I literally had Lasik surgery, so I couldn't get it done. But they needed it right then and there. And I couldn't do it. But I couldn't do it. Anne (31:30.391) They do. Oh, all the time, because you can't respond in time. Mm-hmm. Anne (31:40.698) Yeah, yeah. Anne (31:45.854) Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Well, I know if I can't contact somebody, if they don't get back to me right away, I'm like, well, fine, I guess you don't want the work. I mean, sure, you don't want my business, that's fine. I'll just go find somebody that does. So, gosh, so what's next for you and the Atlanta VoiceOver Studio? What's in your future? Heidi Rew (31:47.822) So that's another reason why I'm like my phone numbers everywhere and Heidi Rew (32:01.102) Yeah. Yep. Heidi Rew (32:07.954) Gosh, honestly, some potentially big changes. But not, yeah, I don't even know if it's, so the place that we rent, the lease is up in October. And our original plan was to buy something. There's just not a lot available in Atlanta right now that's the size that we need. And Anne (32:15.905) Ooh, sounds exciting. Anne (32:24.322) Mm-hmm. Anne (32:34.064) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (32:36.534) and stuff so we'll probably move spaces. So that's a big thing, that'll be a move in October. And yeah, so I don't know, we're gonna have to change some things. To be honest with you, the studio has been wonderful, it's grown so much. I mean, we're about to celebrate eight years this summer, which is crazy. Anne (32:42.117) Ooh, that's a big thing. Anne (32:56.622) Mm-hmm. Wow, that's fantastic. Heidi Rew (33:02.198) But it's been a lot on Mike and I. So it may even be changes of like we fine tune things or we shrink some of the things that we offer, to be honest with you, because it's a lot of work on our part. And we try and take the weekends off, but you know, we don't take a paycheck either from the studio. And so that's been like, ugh. Yeah, I know you do. I know. Anne (33:04.579) Mm-hmm. Anne (33:09.403) Mm-hmm. Anne (33:14.034) Yeah. Do you have a day off? Anne (33:19.314) Okay, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I'll tell you what is funny. I don't have a studio and I work six and a half days a week. So, and I really try not to because you're right. I think for my own creative mindset and health, it's important to have that refresh time. So. Heidi Rew (33:32.964) Yeah. I know. Well, and let me ask you this too, because this is something that I think we've experienced is like we, Mike and I love to give to people. And that's been the thing with Atlanta VoiceOver Studio, but if you keep giving and giving and giving, it's really easy to get burned out. And you're just like, I... Anne (33:43.8) Mm-hmm. Anne (33:54.95) Yeah, it is. It is. Heidi Rew (33:57.03) wasn't able to fill up and we recognize that too with like it like COVID was really hard going through all of that and then coming out of it and yeah I you know it yeah. Anne (34:05.281) Yeah. It is hard, it is hard. And I know I did that with Vio Peeps for a long, long time. I mean, you give, you give, you give. Vio Boss, this podcast is one of those, I wanted to give back. And if you're not careful, it will burn you out. It is one of those things. And I thought, well, maybe I'll give up the Vio Peeps and it'll just be Vio Boss. And I couldn't do that, because I don't know, I liked my bird, I liked my little Peeps bird. And I love my Vio Boss. And I, so. Heidi Rew (34:17.722) Hmm. Heidi Rew (34:22.331) Yeah. Heidi Rew (34:30.307) I know. Well, and we like to give. Yeah, it's not, yeah, it's not gonna stop, but it is a tricky thing to try and find that balance of like, how do I fill back up myself so I can give to other people, so. Anne (34:39.322) Yeah, it is. It's yes to navigate. Yes. Well, absolutely. Well, you guys have just been amazing and you're just an icon in Atlanta there. And it was so wonderful to actually get the opportunity to have you on the show because you guys are bosses and you are a boss. So, yeah, thank you so much. And we really appreciate you sharing your nuggets of wisdom. Heidi Rew (34:51.402) Uh... Heidi Rew (34:59.05) I know. Oh. Anne (35:17.406) when you have self doubts. Because that really means a lot to people out there that think, gosh, she must have it all, because she's been doing it forever. And it really helps to know that we're not alone out there. And so I appreciate your transparency. So, yes. Heidi Rew (35:19.026) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (35:25.188) Mm-mm. No. Heidi Rew (35:29.476) Yeah. Heidi Rew (35:33.146) Yeah, thank you so much for having me on, and thank you, VO Bosses, for letting me be with you in this moment. Anne (35:39.314) Yay, yay, awesome. All right guys, a big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can connect and network like Heidi and I. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week.  

The BOSSES talk about practice this week! Through personal anecdotes and expert advice, they reveal that practice isn't just about refining technique—it's a journey to discover new habits that can benefit your career. The BOSSES talk about why many voiceover students skip practice sessions and how accountability partners and workout groups can be game-changers in your pursuit of vocal excellence. The BOSSES discuss the risks of practicing without professional oversight, and how it can lead to bad habits that are tough to break. They shine a spotlight on the undeniable advantages of participating in structured groups like Audition Demolition and VO Peeps, which offer both expert feedback and the kind of networking opportunities that can kickstart a career. We equate voice acting to mastering a musical instrument, asserting that progress requires commitment to practice beyond the four walls of coaching sessions. 00:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses. Anne Ganguzza, you know your journey and voiceover is not just about landing gigs. It's about growing both personally and professionally. At Anne Ganguzza voice productions, I focus on coaching and demo production that nurtures your voice and your confidence. Let's grow together. Visit Anne Ganguzza.com to find out more.  00:33 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Ann Ganguza.  00:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, along with my special guest co-host Lau Lapides. Hey, Lau, hey.  00:58 - Lau Lapides (Host) Annie, it's great to see you, as always. How are you Wonderful, ready to talk and chat it up?  01:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Awesome, awesome.  01:06 - Lau Lapides (Host) So, Lau.  01:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) As you know, I am a coach, and as well as you, and it seems like every week I have a few students that they always want to do live reads with me during our sessions, which I think is wonderful. But, as a coach and a former educator, I always assign homework, because I want people to get the most out of their sessions.  01:25 So I feel like it's very important that they have different scripts that they can read, they can record, they can practice getting used to different styles, and I want to make sure that in between sessions they are doing that on some sort of a daily basis. I think that's super important for their growth and development. It amazes me Lau how many times I will have students say well, I got really busy and I get it. Like life happens, there's families, there's things that happen and you can't always practice, but sometimes there are students who just never seem to take the time to really work in between sessions. I thought we should have a discussion about that.  02:03 - Lau Lapides (Host) Yeah, it's a good point. It's a good point. I used to think, and my team used to think and oftentimes mistake, when that happened, and it happened quite frequently with us as well that they didn't care, they weren't engaged, they weren't serious, they were lazy, all of those things. Sometimes, it is true I don't know if that's it or they procrastinate, procrastination was very, very big.  02:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's a whole other episode.  02:27 - Lau Lapides (Host) It's a whole other episode, but I mean, I have found that the learning process of how you cement technique and how you utilize your tools and how you really discover organically who you are as a performer is through the practice session and there's different methodologies that you've got to look at to make it successful for yourself. And, of course, one which is very hot today the accountability of having at least one other person, one partner, out there that's going to meet you, that's going to be with you, live real time and work you through. It has typically been very successful for people that their schedules match. Sure, they're well matched together, they enjoy being together, it becomes a professional friendship for them and it can work.  03:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, now you're talking about accountability like an accountability group, right, that can just say all right. So what did you do this week to further your business? So I want to make sure that we're talking not just accountability in terms of hey, what did you do this week to secure more leads, to get more?  03:32 - Intro (Announcement) work.  03:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We're talking accountability for, let's say, if you want to get better at the craft and I think there's lots of things that you can do to help yourself get better at the craft- and now it's hard to have an ear when you haven't developed an ear yet, and so sometimes I'll give homework and people will get very upset if they're like, yeah, but I did the homework, but now that you've told me these things, you shouldn't listen to that homework anymore. But, honestly, the homework that I gave or the scripts that I give, no matter what performance level you're at, right, there's so many good reasons to do the homework.  04:09 - Lau Lapides (Host) Oh, no question about it.  04:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Because even if you don't have an ear yet, there's many advantages of you experiencing and attempting to record by yourself and get things submitted on time. Gosh, there's just so many things right, it's like auditioning techniques.  04:28 There's editing techniques you're getting better at, you're experiencing different styles.  04:32 I mean you could be within a genre and have multiple different style scripts come your way that you have to analyze and figure out.  04:40 And so, for me, if you don't have a discipline of doing something voiceover every single day performance-wise right, I think you're kind of missing the boat. And I'm not going to say that you're lazy if you don't do it, but I am going to say that having something that you do every single day is important because it helps you learn, as you said, who you are. As you said who you are, it helps you learn like, oh, if I record a script in the morning, I realize, oh, I have a lower voice in the morning, or I have more energy in the morning, or versus recording after a long day at work, right, oh, I sounded a little bit strained in that performance. So it helps to know who you are as a performer by having those practice, having the exercises, having the homework, whatever you want to call it. And also, yeah, I think having an accountability buddy is very helpful. And also, la, let's talk about workout groups.  05:33 - Lau Lapides (Host) Oh, absolutely. And I'll tell you, you know, before this idea of accountability, buddies came in, which really came from other industries, completely like the gym. Working out at a gym, you'd have an accountability partner at a gym. You know, way before I knew about it for voiceover, I always learned it as an actor In conservatory level. You would always be in rehearsal. We didn't call it practice sessions, we called it rehearsal. You were always rehearsing your roles, always. And could you rehearse alone, rehearsing your roles always. And could you rehearse alone? Of course, and you have to rehearse alone at times, but when you can be with another person, that level of energy and stimulation and fun factor I think helps to cement a discipline of saying I got to come to it every day. It's like I have a class that I'm going to yes.  06:23 I have to get to that. I have to do that. I'm being held to that. So then, when you go to your workout classes, you have a lot to bring to the table because guess what, you're not just relying on the workout class to give you everything You've already been working out on your own right. And then you're bringing that in for your director or your coach or your facilitator and saying here are things I've been working on, here are things I've been coaching and practicing and rehearsing every day. Now let me work through it with a live group in the room.  06:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, and I think that that gives you yet another level of practice that can really help you develop auditioning skills, and it can, again, it makes you accountable.  07:06 You're like, well, I don't want to be a complete fool, I should probably right, I should probably work on my technique or my performance, so that when I get in front of the group, right, I'm not going to necessarily seem like I don't know what I'm doing. And so I do want to say one word of caution when working out with peer groups right, peer groups without necessarily someone that can really guide along the peer group that maybe have more experience might be just floundering, shall I say, or misguiding. If that's the case, if you have a bunch of new people in a workout group and you're all directing one another, sometimes you can get direction that may not be helpful because everybody is new. So at least if you're working out with a group of people, if you can try to have a leader of that group that can oversee or that has some experience, some casting experience, some coaching experience that can help guide, if there is feedback that may or may not be helpful to you for your performance.  08:03 - Lau Lapides (Host) I couldn't say that any better, annie. I'm not a fan of pair workout groups and the reason is because it's not that you can't have professional friends and you can't help one another, you can. But I get concerned about and I'll bring it back to the gym again, because it's an easy analogy that if I meet up with two or three or four people and we're all lifting the 50-pound weight or whatever and I'm just not doing it properly and they're not aware of that, they're not catching that, they might even be saying great job, lau. Oh my God, look at your biceps. And meanwhile I'm straining my back, I'm hurting my lower back. I'm hoping that the facilitator or the coach or the trainer has that knowledge base to say hey, hey, hey, no, no, no, no, we don't do it that way.  08:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Here's your proper technique, here's your proper form.  08:51 - Lau Lapides (Host) That's my biggest concern. And the other concern I have about a peer workout group as well is be careful, like, have your gossip antennas up. We shouldn't be going into a practice rehearsal, performance group to talk about the business or gossip about other people or whatever. And oftentimes it can go down that road of like oh, who did you audition for today? Oh, I got that script. Oh, what do you think of her? How come she sent that out? And then all of a sudden all sorts of things are said in that room which are not appropriate, makes people feel really uncomfortable and is completely off topic from what you came in to do in the first place, which was practice.  09:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, and we're talking again bosses. We're talking performance and techniques, not necessarily business meetings, right, we're business accountability and in that place I think you can talk about the business, the industry as it exists. And I agree with you. I think gossip we have to be very careful about gossip, just because I don't think gossip serves any useful purpose really, and it is one of those things that gets to think of let's gossip around the water cooler. It happens.  10:00 I mean, we do it, we do it, but I think that business accountability groups or performance groups should probably steer clear of that, if it's possible. I don't think it's really constructive in a lot of ways. And in regards to workout groups, I mean I can't sit here on the VO Boss podcast and not say we have an audition, demolition, which is a really wonderful group where you can work out, and we have a simulated audition and you can get feedback from coaches, lau and myself and also work up your live performance skills as well. As I have the VO Peeps, which has a workout group that happens once a month. That is part of the group and you've got TIC right.  10:39 - Lau Lapides (Host) Then you have workouts that happen for your group, lau, yeah, we got weekly workouts happening and I wanted to say about Audition Demolition, when we came up with that, Annie, like I don't even think we realized really the impact that that kind of a live directed session has. And I'll be honest, I mean you can edit this out later. It's educational, it's developmental, it's social. But let me be honest, I have pulled a few of those people for my roster that were amazing people that came in that I said, oh my goodness, they need an agent or they need representation, like ASAP. So whenever you go into a professional work experience like this, you're in a room, you're auditioning, You're actually auditioning. It's the real deal. It's not a mock audition, it's not a mimic audition, it's a real Well, even though we say it is, but it is real.  11:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's not a mock audition, it's not a mimic audition, it's a real. Well, even though we say it is, but it is real, it's real.  11:35 - Lau Lapides (Host) Annie could be casting something or have a friend that's producing something and she may be thinking about you because she just saw you in the room. So I'm just saying come in and really experience the live directed session and observe Also observe what's happening with others with your colleagues. It absolutely. And observe also observe what's happening with others with your colleagues. It's fabulous.  11:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And with your weekly workouts as well as mine. I have guest directors that come in on a regular basis and I cannot tell you the amount of times where I've had a casting director come in or a talent agent and I can never promise right. As a matter of fact, I even have to have a disclaimer saying that this does not guarantee you representation at all. However, there have been a number of peeps that have come into my workout groups and performed well and they have been signed with an agent or they have struck up a relationship with a casting director and then gotten hired. So I think that these are the things that I think are very beneficial for bosses out there in really growing in the performance aspect of your career, and it's so, so important because I am a business owner, I am a coach. If you say to me, I want to do live reads every time we meet, of course I can do live reads, but I also want you to be working on them in between sessions, because otherwise it's going to take you a really long time to get to the point where you're going to be ready to, let's say, record a demo or ready to really get out there and do work. It's kind of like I used to take piano lessons back in the day and if I didn't practice in between my lessons, boy did my teacher know it, because she would give me music to practice during the week. And so when I would meet with her the following week, if I didn't practice, it guess what? It was very painfully obvious, and she could take my money week after week. And if I didn't practice, well, my mom would be angry, because you know she's like why am I spending all that money on these sessions? And if you think about it, really, bosses, you're spending money and you should be getting the most out of your sessions that you can. So, in addition to the I would say, workout groups that are led with coaches or people that are experienced, that can really help move you forward, also yourself in the studio, working on these scripts and even fumbling, which is fine. That's what they're there for. I mean, that's why I give homework.  13:57 And then struggling through the editing, and people always say, well, do you really need me to edit it? And I said I want you to edit it, like it's an audition for me, right? So then I'm going to play it back for you and then we're going to talk about it and I'm going to redirect you. And the reason I do that is not because I want to just give you busy work. It's not busy work, it is giving you so much more.  14:18 Like this is what's going to happen when you get a job right You're going to have to record in your studio, you're going to have to self-direct, you're going to have to edit that audio and you're going to have to present it. Or, if you're doing an audition right and you're going to have to put it in a form that someone can actually listen to, you're going to have to understand your editing skills. You're going to have to in certain cases in e-learning and corporate, you have to remove breaths or you have to really de-amplify your breaths and you have to do all those things. And I'm like, look, the point of me giving you something on a day-to-day basis to do is not to stress you out.  14:51 It is to help you get the most out of our sessions together, and I think that it's important that you have a discipline. If you can spend 20 minutes a day, if you can spend an hour a day, if you can spend more than that, that's wonderful. But take time set aside and make a discipline and sometimes I say mix up the times, like if you can do it in the morning before you, if you have another job that you go to do it in the morning before you go to the job, and then maybe, if you can do it during the lunch hour, maybe try it when you come home. And then you get to know yourself, know your performance level, know, oh, I sound good in the morning, I have a lot of energy, or I sound horrible after a day's work, when it's been horrible.  15:31 - Lau Lapides (Host) Well said. Couldn't have said it any better. I mean, that's really what it is, and when you show up to, whatever you show up to, don't underestimate it. What I mean by that is whether it's a partner of yours, whether it's a workout group, whether it's in front of a casting director, whether it's audition demolition. Put yourself together as if you are a professional in a professional environment, and I don't care if people are showing up in pajamas and they're coming from bed. Don't do it.  15:58 Don't make the mistake to do that, because not only will your psychology not be up to par with the level at which you need to be sustaining and working at, but you could literally lose connections, you could lose jobs, you could lose potential opportunities, because I don't know about you, annie, but I see the weirdest things and tick Like all of a sudden I see a bed and I'm like why am I looking at an unmade bed and I have to take out the video. Like I have to literally watch out and take out the video. I see the weirdest things and I'm like why would you show up in bed? Why would you show up just coming out of the shower? Why would you show up in these ways? These are meetings, professional meetings, and I think that the casualness of being at home has trained people into thinking well, I'm on Zoom, it's just I'm here. No, you're still in a professional meeting environment where people are thinking about the work you're doing. They're observing you.  16:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, it is about more than just your voice. I mean, it is about the professionalism and professional demeanor and how you act, what you look like. It's all part of the package. And that's that whole discussion. Like, do we even need demos anymore? Of course we do. Do we need performance coaching? Of course we do. I mean, in reality, I mean this is what makes us who we are. It helps us develop and move forward in our businesses.  17:18 And again, I cannot stress enough that if you're not dedicating a certain amount of time on a day-to-day basis to get better at this craft, then I'm not quite sure what you're doing. And that's fine if maybe it's just a hobby for you, Maybe it's just something you're trying out to see, if you enjoy it. And a lot of times there are people who are like oh gosh, I didn't realize it was going to be work, I thought I was just talking behind the mic and a lot of times, right again, you don't know what you don't know. And so if you think it's easier than it is, that's another reason why I give the homework that I give so that people can see that it really isn't and so that you can get the feedback, you can get the evaluation and I can say you know what it sounds like. You need to improve on your studio a little bit. I'm hearing a little bit of noise, or, hey, I'm hearing some mouth clicks, or I'm hearing whatever that is, or your performance sounds like it's not. I don't believe it, it's not authentic, and so those are the things that your practicing is going to help you.  18:16 And again, at some point, it's like you practice and you don't hear yourself. You don't hear yourself and then you get feedback and then you come back, you practice some more and then you get some more feedback, which is why I think having that coaching or having that professional that can give you feedback is so incredibly critical to improve in your career. I mean, can you do it all on your own by watching videos? I think that can be a supplement if you have a good group the VO Peeps we have videos that you can watch that were people that have worked out before with guest directors who are amazing in their field. I mean Lau, you've been on it a couple of times with guest directors who are amazing in their field. I mean Lau, you've been on it a couple of times. And Audition, Demolition gosh guys, we have the Audition Demolitions on the VO Boss YouTube channel. You can go and watch them now and learn from those. So, yeah, I think that those types of workouts, those types of group practices, are something that can be very beneficial for you.  19:10 - Lau Lapides (Host) Absolutely. I couldn't have said it any better. You're taking the words out of my head. I would say this, though, too I think you and I take for granted how much energy and stamina and willfulness we have in going from session to session, hour to hour, moment to moment, through a very, very long day, because we've been trained that way, we're used to that, we expect that to some degree, we enjoy that, we love that. Well, I have found like, when I run classes and as it goes after the first hour into 90 minutes, I start watching the group to see is their energy going, is their stamina going? By two hours, people are starting to pop up. Yes, yes, I am so shocked at that Listen.  19:56 Mama lau knows, mama lau, mama lawu knows that they're lying when they say, oh, I got an appointment, I have to go.  20:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) No, they're getting tired. Yeah, they leave after two hours. And you know, that's so interesting that you say that, because it used to be years ago I would have three-hour workouts and if it were like a guest director, that was like top in their field. People would stay until they left. I mean, it was just like they couldn't get enough of it. And lately, lau, I have had sessions where my guest director goes a little bit past two hours and people are like I got to go, I got to go, I'm off, right, and I find that a little bit disturbing.  20:35 - Lau Lapides (Host) Well, therein lies the background and the history of that talent, and where has their training come from? Where has their experience come from? I'll use an example, because a lot of voiceover talent are also on-camera actors as well. Many, many, many. If they're on a film set, they know they have to have patience for 7, 8, 11, 14 hours. They're not just going to be released because they get tired. They're going to have to stick that through and figure out what makes them stay with it throughout that time frame. I mean same with, like, if you do theater, many voiceover talent come from a theater background. Well, that's a big rehearsal process. You could go in for three, four, five hours at a time to rehearse a show. So those folks that come in, I find those folks that come in already have a built-in understanding of time and energy and stamina.  21:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I mean stamina, stamina. I'm just going to say there is something to be said for stamina and especially because, let's say, I mean I work a lot in long-format narration, right, you need stamina to be able to be present in that script, to execute that 45-module e-learning right. And audiobook narrators, I find, have good stamina, but there's also material that may be completely interesting to them, right. Whenever it's story-driven, right, I feel like, well, at least there's some story in there, and sometimes there may not be stories within the stories, but you have to develop a vocal muscle. You really do.  22:08 And it's kind of like me when I gosh back in the day when I was teaching, and I would be teaching class after class after class after class, your voice had to get used to talking. That much. I mean I had to build up stamina. You go to the gym, right, I got to build muscle. You have to build vocal muscle and you have to build not only vocal muscle but mental muscle.  22:26 That really helps you to stick it out, to be present, to be that actor for the amount of time that you need. I mean, if there's breaks in between, right, and you're watching somebody else go in a group session, right, and all of a sudden it's like but I'm on the East Coast, right. I get people that say that I'm on the East Coast and I got to go to bed. Okay, I get that, but still, there's stamina. Right, there is a muscle that you need to build up If you really want to see yourself succeed, and we might have people that argue with us and say is it that hard? Yeah, I mean, I feel like it can be if you want to be good at this, right.  22:59 - Lau Lapides (Host) But wouldn't you say also, though, annie, that there's this whether it's an addiction factor or a dopamine kick or whatever it is, I find so many of us that come from these backgrounds and work through a long day, work through a long shift, love it. We just can't get enough of it. There's an insatiable need to keep doing it. So if you're practicing, for instance, you shouldn't keep practicing at five minutes or 10 minutes for a year, two years, three years. You should be building that time frame and that stamina and the passion for why you're staying longer with it. I just love what we do. I love what I do. I enjoy what I do. I want more of it. I want to do more of it. You know what I mean.  23:42 If I teach a live class and I teach a live class in a studio, which is more rare nowadays they're typically six to eight hours in length, and the kids that sit in the class, that are like in the 20s or in the 30s. They will start to fade about halfway through. I'll see them kind of like fade, and I'll be like you know what? You guys, I'm not used to taking as many breaks, but you tell me when you need a break. I don't want to lose you Just tell me when you need a break.  24:07 But those kinds of things in your training is so important because then when you go practice on your own, if you've done six hours of training or eight hours of training in a row, to do 15 minutes or 30 minutes is no longer a big deal for you. It's all relative right in a lot of ways.  24:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. So Law, what are your best tips for developing that stamina muscle that you would say voice actors can do to help their performance?  24:37 - Lau Lapides (Host) Well, perhaps this is redundant. You need to do it and you should do it a lot, and so, like, let's say you're joining a class or a group or a workout or whatever it is. You need to, like, top yourself, keep challenging yourself, keep topping yourself. One group may be one hour. That's going to help me practice. That's all I need for now. One hour is perfect. But then I want to also join a group that may go two hours in length, because I want to be able to see.  25:04 This is one of the things, annie, that graduate school taught me. I didn't realize at the time, but later I realized they taught you how to teach your craft, direct your craft, produce your craft. Why? Because you weren't always performing, you were observing all the people in the room. Yeah, you were made to give feedback to every single person in the room, until you were blue in the face and said I don't know what to say anymore. They said you better figure out what to say, because if you're teaching in a program, if you're producing a project or you're doing whatever and you have to give feedback, you have to give feedback. So that's a muscle. That's a muscle where you have to just keep exposing yourself to more and more people simultaneously and more and more time. I just want to say one more thing about actors. Actors oftentimes beginning-level actors would get very annoyed if they're in a room where they only get to work for a very small part of the time.  26:01 And then they have to watch 15 people right, and I said you better thank your lucky stars because that's going to be one day, your company, your team, your classroom, your whatever and you're going to have to have the stamina and discipline to go through every single one of those auditions, every single one of those performances student or someone that really wants to learn as much as they possibly can, will understand the value of sitting there and listening and watching other people.  26:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And you're right, there's a lot of people who will be quick to complain that, well, they might do a group workout, but they only get 10 minutes on mic, and so I believe that you should have individual attention, which is great for one-on-one coaching as well as the group workouts.  26:47 Yes, I do too. That together builds your muscle and really is something I advise everyone and to get experience and exposure with different directors, which is why one of the reasons why I have the VO Peeps group and it's one of the reasons why you have TIC right and you bring in guest directors, because it's very important for you to get exposure from different teachers, from different feedback from different people, because it just helps you become a more well-rounded actor. And, of course, if you can make that discipline I mean you don't want to be investing all your money into sessions and not be getting the most out of your sessions, out of your sessions and so, with that, if you are making the investment to get that coaching, then make sure that you start to exercise that muscle on a daily basis or every other day, whatever you can work in on a consistent basis. I think consistency is key.  27:42 - Lau Lapides (Host) Right, it doesn't always have to be constant, but it should be consistent. That's really important, and I would build in every time work, a new tool, something that you have observed, picked up, been coached or directed to do. Write it down. Don't just keep it in your head and forget about it, because there's a million things that coaches and directors are going to be offering to you throughout your career that you're just not going to be able to conjure up and remember. So you have to document. However, you document, document and pull one thing out, say, oh okay, annie coached me, okay, she gave me builds. This week I got to work on my build. Let me look at this script. Let me work on my build. That's going to take my focus into a very specific zone, rather than me standing in the booth going has 15 minutes gone by yet? Have I practiced enough? Right, exactly.  28:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly, and I'm going to say when you practice, it requires your focus. So for me to be the best actor that you can be, it requires 100 plus percent focus into your scene who you are, who you're talking to, because it's so easy to just read, so easy to just read. So don't just get in there and read. Get in there and create those scenes, figure out who you're talking to be in the scenes. And that requires imagination, it requires a lot of focus and that's tiring.  28:51 - Lau Lapides (Host) And take care of yourself, like don't dehydrate, don't overheat, don't feel like I'm standing for so long I can't see straight. If your eyes are hurting you from the light, turn the light off. Be easy on your brain so that your brain can focus on the more important things, that's, your work at hand. Make your environment conducive to practice. How many times, annie, have you seen one of your clients that you meet on a coaching session on Zoom and they're in the dark? They're in the dark and I'm like where's your light? Where's your light? How do you see? Aren't you straining your eyes? They're like, oh yeah, let me set something up. How do you see, aren't you straining your eyes? You're like, oh yeah, let me set something up. You got to do what's best for you. What makes your work more palatable for you is what's going to make your practice sessions more enjoyable. Right, absolutely.  29:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Good stuff, Lau, great stuff. So very important bosses, practice, get your practice in, get your discipline in All right. Practice, get your practice in, get your discipline in All right. I am going to give a huge shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl, which allows Lau and I to get in our vocal practice and talk to one another like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.  30:03 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Join Anne Ganguzza and guest co-host, Lau Lapides, as we share the personal rituals and support systems that keep us at the top of our game. From the mental clarity of Anne's Pilates routine to Lau’s cherished moments with her furry friends, the BOSSES unravel how these treasured practices not only lift spirits, but also propel BOSSES through the most demanding business battles. The BOSSES guide you through the creation of an optimal workspace designed to awaken your most productive self. They also tackle the often-overlooked aspect of sound, from the tranquility of headphones to the creative surge provided by the right playlist. Plus, discover tried-and-true methods for diffusing work stress, to improve your business performance #likeaboss  00:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know your voice has the power to move, to persuade, to inspire. Imagine taking that power to its fullest potential. With guidance and expert production, I can help elevate your voice to new heights, making every voice script resonate with your audience. Let's empower your voice together, one session at a time. Find out more at anneganguzza.com.  00:29 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am here in the Boss Superpower Series with my amazing special guest co-host, Lau Lapides. Oh hey, Annie, hi Lau.  01:01 - Lau Lapides (Host) So good to be here.  01:03 - Anne ganguzza (Host) So good to be here too. I am all set to record another amazing episode with you, and I've got my trusty cup of coffee right here, you got your cup of coffee and I got my trusty big dunks.  01:18 - Lau Lapides (Host) I think that's 32 ounces of water from dunks.  01:21 - Anne ganguzza (Host) Wow, look at that. Do you get your water from dunks?  01:25 - Lau Lapides (Host) Not always, but if I'm going to go and get coffee anyway or something there anyway, I always ask for a large water. Even if they charge you a little, I ask for a large water, my double-fisted coffee.  01:36 - Anne ganguzza (Host) And these are actually my Ultima replenishers, which are electrolytes, which I love so I make sure that I'm drinking. I'm supposed to drink close to 100 ounces a day, and these help me to do so and to make sure that I'm getting all the nutrients that I need so that I can run my business like a boss.  01:54 - Lau Lapides (Host) I love it, I love it.  01:55 - Anne ganguzza (Host) So those are just a couple of my I guess, tools that support me while I am working and keep me energized and going and running my business like a boss. Let's talk about, maybe our tools or our support mechanisms that help us to keep running our businesses like bosses today.  02:15 - Lau Lapides (Host) Oh, that's a great topic. I love that. Just thinking about that makes me all cozy and fluffy inside, because when I think about the rituals, the routines, what I consider to be necessities of the daily run, what keeps me engaged and energized, going from morning till night, what is it that does that? For each individual person, there's so many different support options.  02:43 - Anne ganguzza (Host) We just showed you one. Yeah, and I'll tell you what right now. It was so funny because I happen to be watching Saturday Night Live last night and that tells bosses that we're here on a Sunday. I'm just saying we're here on a Sunday recording some boss episodes, but I happen to be watching Saturday Night Live and there's a whole comedy skit on Pilates, because it makes me think of. I've been getting into Pilates this year and it is something that I do early in the morning before I start my day. Usually I have a 7 o'clock class that goes till 8, and I get myself in the studio by 8.30 and really start running either with students or recording stuff in my studio, doing demo production by 9 at the very latest on a day-to-day basis. So Pilates, or getting my daily exercise in, has now become one of my go-to things. That is something I need to do. I need to feel like I've been able to exercise and get my heart rate up and be invigorated. Mm-hmm.  03:37 - Lau Lapides (Host) I love that, I love that. And if you miss it, if you miss that routine or ritual, how different do you feel, how different is the start of your day? So it's like patterns, you know. We're also talking about the discipline of creating a pattern in your social comfort that you need to really perform. There's all sorts of different things I pull out depending on the season and how I feel, but one of the things you and I discuss is the importance of our fur children. Oh gosh yes.  04:07 Because we're fur mamas and I've got my two Frenchie bulldogs, you've got your beautiful cats and we both love animals so, so much.  04:16 - Anne ganguzza (Host) Oh, my goodness, yes, and that love, that passion, helps to fuel the business as well, right when I need a break, when I'm having a lunch break or something, I make sure that I go and have playtime with the cats or I'm like I need a hug from one of my kitties, and so I'll go seek them out and get a hug and it's funny because animals, I love animals.  04:37 The other thing is that the horse show season has started here by me and for those of you that have not seen my photos on social media, I love, love, love horses and back in the day, Law and I, when we were talking about what we used to do when we were in our younger years, I used to ride horses and show horses. And so for me to live literally a mile away from a showgrounds where they have amazing, top-rated shows every weekend during the season Just makes me so happy.  05:08 - Lau Lapides (Host) It's such a big deal and it really infuses your spirit in a different way that really, I would say even redirects any kind of negative energy that I'm feeling, which we all have for different reasons. You know what's going on in the world, or what's going on in your family, or what's going on in your home, or whatever. It has the power to redirect you onto something very specific, very detailed, that is positive, that is something uplifting for you and something you can take that energy and put it right into your work. And I know you feel the way I feel about the animals. After a while I literally forget they're animals and I treat them as people and I feel like the energy and spirit of people are in the room. It really feels that way.  05:55 - Anne ganguzza (Host) I just live in the house with my cats. They run it pretty much. They let me live there and anybody that has been to my house knows there is a cat condo in just about every room. I think we have five. I think we have five cat condos.  06:10 - Lau Lapides (Host) Those condos are HOAs, aren't they? They're gated communities.  06:14 - Anne ganguzza (Host) They really are, and I'll tell you what the good thing is is that our cats actually use them, so that's a good thing If they never looked at them.  06:19 I would feel really bad and they also have their boxes of toys which they dig out and get new toys. And you know it's funny because Law I don't know if this is the way with your dogs but like, literally I've collected cat toys for the past. I mean I've owned cats ever since I was little and since I moved to, I would say, new Jersey, like in my 20s, I mean I've got like 40 years worth of cat toys that they just keep getting reused by the cats that I acquire.  06:44 - Lau Lapides (Host) It's hard to get rid of them, isn't it? Oh?  06:45 - Anne ganguzza (Host) it is. It's like a favorite stuffed animal. I mean, how can you when the cat plays with it? And of course they have boxes and boxes of toys, but really it's the paper bags that they like.  06:55 - Lau Lapides (Host) And we have those plastic bags. You know those really beautifully designed. So we have one on every floor brimming with stuff and I'm literally praying at times that the dogs rip them apart so I can start throwing them away. Oh my God yeah. Because I won't throw them away unless they need to be thrown away for some reason. Like I'm hoarding dog toys, so I get you right there. I get you right there, and it's like the joy of watching them play with one of those toys while you're working is so fun.  07:23 - Anne ganguzza (Host) Well, you know, as much as I say that we're working on a Sunday, I mean, and we work hard both of us, I mean there's something to be said for just taking that time to kind of reset and refresh and re-engage and have things that we enjoy doing and that we need in order to continue moving forward in our businesses, and that is watching our animals play, watching our fur babies play, or going to a horse show, or something that really takes us out of the work day so that it can really refresh our brains, which I need. I need to have that brain power to run my business as efficiently and as effectively as possible.  08:02 - Lau Lapides (Host) There's a softening there too. There's a softening of a hardness which happens throughout the day, not necessarily becoming jaded or cynical, but becoming expectant of difficult things or expectant of challenges on a daily basis. It softens those blows I always say it keeps me more human. It keeps me more human as they're human. It keeps me more human in the keeps me more human as they're human. It keeps me more human in the situations that I'm dealing with. How about the room itself that you're in the studio, the office, the space you're in, having a support within that space that really allows you to flourish and grow? I know I love having sayings that I believe in so much so when I'm in a meeting I can stare at them and remember what they mean. Remember what they mean. Here's one of my favorite ones that's hanging on my wall in my office and I'm not always in my office, but when I am I remember it says create the things you wish existed. Oh, I like that. That's wonderful.  09:01 And that gives me a little frisson every time I see it.  09:03 - Anne ganguzza (Host) That is wonderful. Well, I think that I might have shown this to you before, but when I open the door of the studio and I don't know if you can see it, but I do have pictures of my fur babies, and over on the other side I have a picture of Jerry and I. And so that is something I can look at, and I plan on getting another one, actually, and hanging it, and so I think that being able to look at those things that just give me joy and some creative inspiration is paramount in the studio and of course I think for me I have to have windows with sunlight.  09:39 I am a big, big sunlight person. For me, and especially when it's the winter months and I get cold and you work and you know we're not moving a lot when we sit, sometimes when we're in the studio, or if I've got the headphones on and I'm doing some editing. I like to be able to get out into the sun and just soak up that vitamin D for a few minutes, when I get a break and that always, always refreshes me.  10:05 - Lau Lapides (Host) Always. I have a porch, annie, that's a screened-in porch. I also have a patio, which I love during the summer months, but the porch during the winter months, when we have some of the harsher, colder weather, has the sun pouring in so I can go out right in the middle of a winter and it's 30 degrees warmer on the porch where I can get that like you get that vitamin D, get that solar energy going to take a nap or refresh me or whatever the case may be. How about this? Sounds really weird, but the CEO of Starbucks was one of the first ones to study this over years and years and that was the shape of the desk. The shape of the table and where you sit in the table affects you socially and it affects the quality of connections you make with others.  10:56 - Anne ganguzza (Host) The shape of the table. So in regards to, I have a standing desk, which I love because if I don't feel like sitting, I can stand at it, but for me, placement-wise, I like to be right in the middle. I also like to also be in a cozy corner with a high back in terms of. If I ever go out to a restaurant, I always feel like I have to sit in a certain place. But tell me more about the shape of the table.  11:20 - Lau Lapides (Host) Oh it's really interesting.  11:22 - Anne ganguzza (Host) In terms of like, if the table is round versus rectangular versus L-shaped versus….  11:28 - Lau Lapides (Host) Yeah, I don't know these days, I don't know if they've kept to this original thinking, but they found through their studies, through Starbucks, that the round table, the circular table, is more connecting in terms of the community that you're sitting in oh that makes sense Than a square table that has edges Right of the community that you're sitting in oh, that makes sense Than a square table that has edges right. I don't always find that, though, because I sit at a lot of square and rectangular tables that I feel really good at.  11:52 - Anne ganguzza (Host) So I don't know. You know that's interesting, but I think, if maybe you're talking about community, yeah, community. It's why it's always nicer to sit at a round table, because it's easier to talk, easier to communicate. Right At a round table, I think, well, a square table because you can have people on equidistant sides, but rectangular, you might have somebody all the way over you can't see people on your side, right, that makes total sense.  12:15 Or they're far away, Right, but in terms of placement on my desk, right, I like to be right in the middle and for me as much as sunlight, right. I was talking about light. I love a lot of light and actually I love a lot of white light in my office area, Like for me, fluorescent lights make me happy and I don't know if that's just me.  12:35 There's a lot of people that don't like fluorescent lights. I like a lot when I'm living and not necessarily working. I like more of a softer yellow light, but for me, for working, I love the white lights and, as a matter of fact, I have LED lights that are white lights that I can actually change the percentage of the lumens, but I like to have very white, bright light in my work area.  12:57 - Lau Lapides (Host) That makes me happy, fascinating, and I like to have, if I can. Of course, for us in New England, weather permitting, I like to have an open door or an open window at all times. Oh, interesting, if I can. I can't always do it, but even in the winter, if it's not horrible out and I have the fireplace on, I have the heat on, I can still have the porch door open, or I can even have a window open to fresh air. There's something about air and wind that the dynamics of that re-energizes me in a certain way.  13:31 - Anne ganguzza (Host) Luckily in California I can do that quite a bit.  13:34 - Lau Lapides (Host) And I like to keep windows open for the cats.  13:36 - Anne ganguzza (Host) It's interesting because when I moved to California, there's a lot of Californians that will just leave their doors open if they're in the house.  13:43 - Lau Lapides (Host) Yeah, I grew up that way too. My neighborhood was that way too, but I don't love bugs and so if a bug happens to fly in.  13:50 - Anne ganguzza (Host) Living in the East Coast, in Mosquito, Aladdin, New Jersey, or humid places where there's a lot of bugs or moths at night. I just no, yeah, of course Cannot have an entryway for bugs to get into the house. Okay.  14:03 - Lau Lapides (Host) I got a good one for you. I got a good one for you, and maybe this is bordering on my OCD, I don't know but I need it neat and organized to a certain degree, where I do the physical cleanup right before I work, and it might be a minute, it might be five minutes, it might be whatever that activity gets me going in the dynamic of doing things.  14:29 - Anne ganguzza (Host) Interesting, so I like to, before you start, have a clean desk. Is that correct? Or one that's not cluttered?  14:36 - Lau Lapides (Host) That's me, I'm not so sure it's about the cleanliness per se. I think it's telling my brain that you're physical, you're active and you're able to accomplish something, even if it's very small and detailed. So cleaning up my papers, neatening my pens and pencils, making sure my monitors are there, making sure my coffee is ready to me, sets a dynamic in the feng shui of my energy that is easier for me to tackle my goals than if everything is all over the place.  15:06 - Anne ganguzza (Host) I have to have a clean sheet of paper because I have my little to-do pad and I still write it down and I know I have lots of lists.  15:11 - Intro (Announcement) Do you have your stickies? I don't have stickies.  15:13 - Anne ganguzza (Host) I don't have stickies but I have like a long to-do pad and that's where I write everything that I need to do, and I do that on the night, like when I'm done with work. I write things to do for the next morning and sometimes, when I sit down, if I do have things that I need to do for the day, I'm writing that down too. But I like to have a fresh, clean sheet of paper.  15:30 - Lau Lapides (Host) That's a generational thing. I do that as well. I think it's our generation. And it's tactile, it's physical. There's a physical thing there you're interacting with, you're writing, you're checking things off. I can barely write anymore.  15:43 - Anne ganguzza (Host) I mean, but you're still doing it, You're not doing it on your computer, right, I'm still doing it. Yeah, I'm still doing it. You're right, I can barely write legibly anymore and I don't even know if they're teaching like— Are they even teaching cursive writing anymore today? They're coming back to it, Annie. They're coming back to it.  16:02 - Lau Lapides (Host) There's something about handwriting.  16:03 - Anne ganguzza (Host) After my mother passed away. There's something so special about seeing her handwriting that brings back so many good memories.  16:10 - Lau Lapides (Host) Oh, I got a tear because it's so—why do we keep the cards, the letters, the notes? Because it's that handwriting for us it really is. You know, I also want to say too and this may seem a little odd, like to go into this, especially when you have other priorities, but I feel like if I can make it through X amount of emails, first thing in my morning number one I'll catch all the time priorities, and then, from the agency perspective, it's like you better catch it, Okay. But beside that, there's a click in me, there's something generated that's very open and very fresh and excited when I can make it through X amount of those and then I can get to the new thing, the next thing, the layered thing, whatever that is. If I have a lot waiting, if I have a lot in the wings that hasn't been done, my brain has a hard time getting into gear fully of what is happening throughout my day.  17:05 - Anne ganguzza (Host) Very interesting. Right, it's interesting You're talking to the girl that has all these unread emails in her mailbox. Some people have to clean their mailbox, right.  17:13 - Lau Lapides (Host) I kind of I guess I have to clean my mailbox because I have to clear my brain in that way so that I can have the appointments or go through the new things or whatever has to happen, and I feel like, even if it's just three or four or 10 or 20, I feel like that's an accomplishment. That's an accomplishment, right? Yeah, absolutely. It may not be the biggest one in our day, but it is one. It is something to celebrate in the day, whatever that means for you, whatever kind of organization that means for you. What about, like do you listen to a TV or music in your day or have that outside entertainment source coming in as you're working?  17:55 - Anne ganguzza (Host) Very rarely do I listen to anything other than my own audio or somebody else's audio during the day, because I need to be focused on it. Every once in a while, though, there is certain music that I can play, and it can only be like ambient music. Right, that can't disrupt my thinking, if I need to focus Like a white noise.  18:16 Well, no, it can be like Sirius XM chill, because chill is very, there's not a ton of dynamics to it and it can just be chill music and so I can listen to that and sometimes I like that. It's therapeutic. But it's very rare that during the day that I listen to anything other than the headphones are on my ears pretty much the whole day, because I'm either working with students or I am recording in the studio or I'm editing audio or I'm editing a demo or whatever that is. I Pretty much have these on and I could put music on, I absolutely could, but I need to make sure that I'm focused on the audio that comes through my ears, which is not always music and not always for enjoyment, but for work-related purposes.  18:59 - Lau Lapides (Host) Gotcha. I have to say I've always loved music.  19:03 - Anne ganguzza (Host) I love music too.  19:03 - Lau Lapides (Host) Well, meaning that I've always had to have music around as I'm functioning throughout the day. And it's funny, my husband is opposite. He never has music on. He almost never has to listen to music. Well, he's a numbers guy, is he not?  19:17 - Anne ganguzza (Host) He's a numbers guy he might need to concentrate on. I'm just thinking that for me it's hard to concentrate with certain types of music. Maybe, maybe.  19:25 - Lau Lapides (Host) Yeah, it just gets in the way of his thought process and his patterning For me. I was a dancer for many years in my younger years and I always had some sort of sound. There was some sort of sound happening that would transport me in a certain way. So I yearn in the day for a transportation of moments where I can daydream or I can concoct a new idea or I can think about something else. Oh, that's lovely. That's an interesting vehicle for me to do it, and I know it is for many people too.  19:55 - Anne ganguzza (Host) Well, when I'm not at my desk, then yes, and I do love music, I mean and music is so important when I'm exercising, for sure.  20:05 I mean, that is so very important that I have music that can help motivate and inspire me while I'm exercising. And it's funny because if I'm doing something like out in my gym, in the garage, which might be like on the pre-core or on the bike, and I'm not following a class and I'm just moving and doing long-term movement, that is where I need to have music. And it's funny because I have lots of playlists that my husband and I, through the years I met my husband he was my spin instructor we've created all these playlists.  20:35 We have hundreds of playlists that are pretty much essentially our favorite music and it's a whole lot of fun. So for that, yes, I do need music to inspire and motivate myself. But then it's funny because when I go to Pilates classes there are some instructors who like music kind of in the background and some of them that find it to be very distracting and really don't want the music on because they want you to concentrate and focus on the muscles of your body and not worry about the music they're playing.  21:03 - Lau Lapides (Host) Do you ever find that you need to step away in the middle of the day and do something completely different? Yes, absolutely Absolutely the day and do something completely different. Yes, absolutely, absolutely. That's a support right there, whether it's exercise or clean, something like do the dishes or make a phone call to a friend that you have to make a contact with, or whatever. Absolutely. I find that's very refreshing. That's a support that I look forward to.  21:26 - Anne ganguzza (Host) I think it's since my transition of working out in the world to working from home and working in my own studio.  21:33 Getting out is one of those things. It's kind of like going out to lunch or running an errand, and I do love the fact that we work for ourselves, that we can schedule those things. In. A lot of times on my off days, when I'm not coaching, I might have a doctor's appointment, or I might have a regular appointment where I go shopping or I pick up stuff at the grocery market and that, to me, is just a nice getting out, breathing the air, going for a walk and getting the mail. That is something that can really help Huge.  22:03 - Lau Lapides (Host) They may sound like small, insignificant tasks, but I really feel like they can not only fulfill my sense of accomplishment, but also recalibrate my whole mind and my body, to relax, to pull out of a situation recalibrate and then come back in more refreshed, more rejuvenated and more balanced right.  22:24 - Anne ganguzza (Host) What can you do? Or what do you do if something at work is frustrating you right Outside of trying to resolve it immediately? What do you do for support?  22:34 - Lau Lapides (Host) Well, of course it depends on what it is. So if I feel like I need outside support of the problem solving, I have my little inner circle that I'll call or email and say hey, I got a situation, what are your thoughts on this? I'd like to get your thoughts and I usually get really quick response of those inner circle of people. It's exhausting because you're going from one session to another, one moment to another, one audition to another, or people are misbehaving, people are misbehaving Any number of things right that you can't really help or do People are misbehaving.  23:04 - Anne ganguzza (Host) I have my circle of friends. You are in that circle a lot and I will like I'll be like texting you.  23:11 - Lau Lapides (Host) I love it. In the middle of the night we'll be like, yeah, let's just talk it out on text, let's just make it happen so that you get to a new place, you get to a new place. I still tend to physically do something because I feel like, kinesthetically, my muscles need to shift out of stress or tension mode into accomplished mode. Even if it's like do the laundry or do the dishes or something simple like that, I do find that helps me a lot. It allows my brain to rest through an activity that I need to do anyway. That's useful anyway, but something that is not taxing.  23:47 - Anne ganguzza (Host) I will say I will. Sometimes. I'll either get off of social media because that might be the source right, or I will go to social media, but it won't be within voiceover. It'll be looking at something in social media that is, other interests of mine Like cooking or something Right, I watch a lot of horse jumping. I watch a lot of cats. Does that surprise you?  24:08 - Intro (Announcement) I watch a lot of cat videos, no, so all those things, it does not. A lot of humor, it does not.  24:19 - Anne ganguzza (Host) A lot of entertainment, music, so that sort of thing. So I will either unplug or plug into the social media. That brings me joy and entertainment versus work stress.  24:25 - Lau Lapides (Host) Exactly To me. They're not only ritualistic disciplines, but they're also support. They're not only ritualistic disciplines, but they're also support. They're comfort and support that we know how to self-medicate in a really positive way. Here's the thing. I don't want to dull out my senses, I don't want to dumb myself down, I don't want to water myself down, so I don't feel it. I just want to give myself a momentary break and then be able to come back to it with a fresh eye and a fresh ear and a fresh thought. I think there's a big difference between the two of like I have to run away from this, I don't want to think about this and I don't ever want to come up against this. Right, you have to be willing to come back.  25:00 - Anne ganguzza (Host) You know it's interesting. I'm trying to think like I've never really tried to run away from things because for me, the sooner I can resolve them, I think the better.  25:10 - Lau Lapides (Host) I feel and for me.  25:12 - Anne ganguzza (Host) I really am trying not to run away from things, and I don't know if that's a personality thing or if that's something I don't know. Bosses what do you think I mean? Being bosses of our own business? Sometimes we can't run away and we have to face issues and try our best to resolve them, and these emotional support mechanisms, or support mechanisms that Law and I have been talking about, may be something that can help us to ease our minds, ease our emotional psyche, so that we can come back better, stronger and resolve them, so that we can move forward in our businesses.  25:48 - Lau Lapides (Host) I love that and it's so interesting how we do this unconsciously until we really recognize. It takes time to recognize. What am I doing, what am I actively doing to either soothe myself, help myself, whatever, and what am I doing? That's not helping, that's counterproductive, right? And really being honest about that, like being aware, having a self-awareness about that yeah, absolutely Even just like writing it down or taping yourself or having someone report back if they're seeing you doing certain activities or doing certain things, I think it's really important to document that and figure out what's working for you as a business.  26:28 - Anne ganguzza (Host) Absolutely so. Yeah, I mean it's been a fun episode. I mean talking about our little emotional support mechanisms and bosses out there, as you said, it may seem like, oh, it seems like just well, this is what we do every day, but in reality, they do a lot to help us to move ourselves forward in our businesses. And so, bosses, what do you do, Right? What do you do to help get yourself through the day? What are your rituals? What things do you need? We'd love to hear from you.  26:55 - Lau Lapides (Host) Absolutely and really claim them, really own them and really be proud of them. You want to make sure that you're able to talk about them and be proud of them and not hide them away.  27:05 - Anne ganguzza (Host) Cool episode Law. Very cool, Very cool. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses, have an amazing week and let's hear from you guys. We'll see you next week. Bye.  27:23 - Intro (Announcement) See you next time. Bye, join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL. Via IPDTL.  27:52 - Anne ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the boss. Did I say podcast? I didn't say podcast. Take two, take two.   

One of the first places voice actors often look for auditions is on Pay to Play sites. For a fee, these sites let you audition for jobs from potential clients all over the world. But these sites can have downsides, including unethical business practices. Controversy over these sites has been highlighted at voiceover conferences and throughout social media. In this episode, the BOSSES delve into navigating online casting platforms and cultivating loyal client relationships outside of these sites. We discuss the investment of time and resources needed to be successful and the importance of evolving with the industry to avoid getting left behind. Ever-evolving AI technology challenges us to redefine our roles and strategies, and we tackle this head-on sharing insights into how we can adapt to remain indispensable. 00:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey VO Bosses. Ann Ganguzza here. Are you struggling to market that boss voice of yours? Well, let me tell you about the VO Boss Blast. With a custom vetted list and personalized emails, we can help you get your marketing message out to those who hire. Find out more at vobosscom and let's blast off together.  00:24 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, everyone welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza. Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and we are here with the Real Boss series with my good friend and guest co-host, Tom Dheere. Hey, Tom Dheere.  00:55 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Hello Anne Ganguza.  00:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Tom Dheere, it was so awesome to see you at VO Atlanta. I have to say.  01:01 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yes, the drive-by hug Right.  01:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I know and I saw you for like a split second, but still it was good for that split second to get the hug in. Absolutely, I know the two of us were insanely busy but getting back together since VO Atlanta. There was a big bomb dropped at VO Atlanta with the Drama, bomb.  01:17 Yeah, with the online casting panel, which began with an apology from the CEO of Voicescom. And so, hmm, let's talk, shall we? Let's dish, let's dish, let's, let's, let's fill some tea. So what were your initial? Were you surprised and what were your initial thoughts? And actually we should just recount for the bosses who were not there at VO Atlanta, the very first thing, on a panel of online casting with J Michael Collins, j Michael asked the acting CEO of Voicescom was he prepared to apologize to the voiceover community for the actions on behalf of Voicescom in the past few years, now that David Cicerelli has stepped down and indeed there was an apology. So, tom, were you there, present in the audience?  02:07 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Well, yes, I was there. I was asked to be there actually. Me too, me too Okay so you were part of that little group of people that were asked to make sure that we would be present at the online casting. Because then we could talk about it like this so then we could talk about it, or we could step up to the mic and ask some pointed questions.  02:23 But to give everybody a little bit of background is that Voicescom has had a pretty bad reputation for a good 10 years, Because I think the first great resignation was in 2014, which is when the interview with Graham Spicer came out and the article that somebody wrote showing how, you know, the same casting notice was posted on Voice123 and Voicescom, but the Voicescom was thousands of dollars lower. So they were caught kind of red-handed doing what many would consider some unethical practices.  02:53 Double-dipping, triple-dipping, Right so Jay O'Connor, who is the acting CEO of Voicescom, is also the son of the recently deceased Supreme Court Justice, sandra Day O'Connor, and he also works for Morgan Stanley.  03:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And Morgan Stanley was the company that put $17 million investment into Voicescom, not a voiceover company.  03:13 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Not a voiceover company. They invested that roughly six, seven years ago. So I'm assuming that David Cicerelli stepped down because he didn't come through on his promise to make their money back. So that's why they put one of their own people in there. So I'm assuming Jay's job is very simple make their money back. So that's just kind of the background. And JMC who I just had him on my Ask Me Anything said that one of the conditions of Jay appearing at VO Atlanta was that he apologized for the past business practices and behaviors. So it made me think about the word responsible. Jay was not CEO of Voicescom when all the interesting stuff happened. However, if you break down the word responsible, it's response able able to respond.  03:57 Oh, I like that Well yeah because, if you think about it, Jay is not guilty of the stuff that Voicescom did under their previous administration, but now he is able to respond to all of that stuff. So you know that late last year Voicescom signed the Fair Voices Pledge and altered their terms of service, the Fair AI.  04:19 Thank you Nava and Tim Freelander and Karin and all those wonderful people there. So what was extra funny is I was sitting next to Miranda Ellis, who's our buddy, who helps run VA for VO, and we were talking about it. We're wondering who's that guy up there? And then I was telling her about the whole Jay O'Connor thing and then JMC said and here is CEO of Voicescom, jay O'Connor, and we're like oh okay, there he is.  04:47 And yes, he did apologize. He gave them an F for how they handled the situation, but they said they're going to be working on moving forward and a lot of pointed questions were asked. I was surprised that he was there. I was surprised at the apology. I think he handled most of the questions from the audience pretty well, pretty professionally.  05:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I wasn't surprised at the apology. I mean, j Michael basically said are you prepared to apologize? And when you are a CEO of a company, I mean at some point, like I imagine, you're going to work that out politically correctly in front of an audience of thousands, knowing that we would be talking about this. What was he going to say? To be quite honest, I mean, I wasn't surprised that he apologized. I wasn't surprised that he took Jay Michael on it, because, guess what, there's business for him sitting there in the audience.  05:33 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Oh yeah, potential customers. There was a sea of potential customers in there and ones who had left the platform who now could be persuaded to return to the platform as well. I did make it a point to talk to him afterwards. I as well. I did make it a point to talk to him afterwards. I first said I'm sorry about your mother's recent passing.  05:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, thank you.  05:47 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I say thank you on behalf of I know he's a person.  05:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) He is a person, yeah, Like he's just a guy.  05:52 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) He probably didn't know Voicescom existed, right? So, like he doesn't know about this stuff and we have to give him the benefit of the doubt, of course of the doubt, we have to assume he's an ethical, response-able person and I said hey, if you need some insight from boots-on-the-ground people, let me know. I gave him my card. He said thank you, he was very kind. So am I optimistic about Voicescom? Cautiously pessimistic? No, yeah, cautiously optimistic. So I'll say cautiously pessimistic. But you know what? I'll tell you something, anne. I rejoined in September of 2023 because they did change their terms of service, they did sign the Fair Voices Pledge and also, as the VO strategist, I have students who want to understand what's going on and if it should be used and how it should be used Yep.  06:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) completely agree with that. So if nothing else.  06:39 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I wanted to create an account to understand how the platform functions, how to feed the algorithm.  06:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) If we are going to be working with students I mean myself included. I mean honestly. I mean we have to know about these platforms so that we can talk about them and recommend them or not to our students. So I feel like I'm a member of Voice123. Now I will say that I was not able to stay for the full session at VO Atlanta because literally they scheduled that right in the middle of my X session, so after 20 minutes I had to leave and so I did not get a chance to speak to him myself personally. But I know a lot of people that I've talked to did, and Mark Scott also did a nice recap on his podcast about the conversation and his conversation with him as well, and myself and Law had a discussion about it as well on a podcast. So I think it's good that we're talking about it. But I'd like to go further, tom. I'd like to talk to you about pay-to-plays in general, what part they play now in the voiceover industry and where you might see them going in the future.  07:36 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) It's funny because maybe 15 years ago they were a disruptive force in the voiceover industry, not unlike AI right now, which is currently a disruptive force in the voiceover industry. And, like I've said about AI and you and I talked about this a couple of episodes ago when it comes to disruptive technologies or business models, you can fight it, you can ignore it, you can adapt to it or you can embrace it. So everybody has their own journey and their own path on how to define success as a voice actor and what they need to do. You want to do all high-end cartoons and video games. You need representation. You need to join SAG-AFTRA. You may need to move to LA or New York or Dallas and do a boots-on-the-ground thing. If you want to narrate audiobooks, that's a different track. If you want to narrate e-learning modules, that's a different track. The best way that I can illustrate this is talking about my journey on Voice123. I joined Voice123 in 2006.  08:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) no-transcript.  08:49 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, I joined it the first year that I went full-time as a voice actor. I learned a lot on there.  08:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It wasn't my first year as a voice actor, but it might've been my second or third, and it was an opportunity. It was a new opportunity to get work, and I remember at the time. How else did you get work outside of if you had an agent? I did not have an agent at the time. I was working on the online platforms like Freelancer back in the day I mean, it was Freelancer, I don't know if it was Odesk.  09:18 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Odesk Elance, Elance.  09:23 - Intro (Announcement) I was on all those too.  09:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I was on all of those too, and then Voice123 came out and I joined in 2006 as well, and actually it worked well for me Although you have actually created a record of how well you've done on that platform throughout the years, and so I'm eager to hear about that.  09:42 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Sure. So for those of you who are listening to this, I'll just read this to you as best I can, but I've got a little slide up here. So I joined in 2006. There was only one tier, it was $200. That first year, I made $1,100. So a great return on investment. Next year, rejoined, made $2,750. So that was great. 2008, it went up to $300. I made $2,650. 2009, made $1,. I made $2650,. 2009, made $1950,. 2010, I made $13,000.  10:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) What changed.  10:09 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I got better at auditioning and I also landed a big textbook like a science textbook. So that was a big chunk of that $13,000.  10:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So let me ask you, in those years, in those early years, how many auditions were you doing? Were you doing 10 a day, 20 a day, as many as possible?  10:26 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I was doing a lot less than that. I was doing a handful a day, but also my direct marketing strategies were working pretty well, so it was complementing. So I was blogging and doing social media and posting on Facebook and Twitter and stuff like that, so it was part of a balanced breakfast, absolutely. 2011, made almost $8,000. 2012, I renewed, but I only made $350. Now what happened in 2012 is that my voiceover career turned the corner. I went full-time in 2006, but late 2011, all the seeds I'd been planting for all those years started to bloom. So I found myself auditioning a lot less because I was just booking a lot more as a result of my direct marketing strategy.  11:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right and then also probably repeat clients at that time were starting. I was also getting repeat clients.  11:13 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) So yeah, so that was happening too. Now, in 2013, I did not renew. I made only $300 just from a legacy client. But the main reason I didn't renew is because there was a cultural thing going on in voiceover where a lot of voice actors were saying that if you are on a pay-to-play site, you are contributing to the lowering of rates, you are a bottom feeder, you're enabling predatory practices, and I made the dumbest decision in my voiceover career, which was I stopped auditioning on Voice123. It was a huge mistake. So, 2014, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, I made virtually nothing because I didn't have a paid account.  11:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But also what happened in those years. Had you gone more to direct methods of marketing? Yes, okay.  11:57 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yes, direct marketing was my main jam. 2014 was, to be totally honest, and that was the year I made the most money as a voice actor. And then in 2015, 16, 17, 18, my income started fluctuating wildly $20,000, $30,000 rises and falls year over year. One of my top 10 clients replaced me with AI back then too.  12:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) In what year was that?  12:18 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) That was 2018, I think, A top 10 client. I was replaced by AI and then 2019, I made nothing. 2019 also, there was like a major downshift in my voiceover revenue because I noticed almost all of my direct marketing strategy stopped working. So did I all of a sudden become a lousy voice actor? Maybe Did industry trends change and my voice was out of fashion? Definitely not. It was becoming even more in fashion more young, energetic, friendly guy next door sound, which is still in demand. So, after contemplation and talking to friends and professionals, I rejoined for $888 in 2020. And now there was a tiered plan.  12:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, exactly I was going to say at this point bosses, pay-to-plays evolved. They used to be just one fee and it was usually around $200 to $300. I remember when Voicescom came on the scene it was the cheaper of the two, for $200, when Voice 123 was at $295, I believe, or something like that. And so then there was a bunch of people that joined Voicescom because they kind of undercut the competition, so to speak, which maybe we should have looked at that in the beginning and said, oh, look at that Now there's competition in the online community and online casting community because Voicescom was the second, I would say, largest platform to come out and they grew fairly quickly, I think because of that lower price point.  13:42 And they also did a bunch of good marketing, I would say, on Google. I think they did a bunch of Google ads and they had a bunch of. Seo that they were working on, and so they became really, really popular around that time.  13:58 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) So what happened in 2020 when I rejoined? So I rejoined like it was a Black Friday sale. Basically, I had one month and in one month I made $1,300. But here's what I noticed. Well, I made my money back immediately. But the other thing I noticed is that when you're on Voice123 and you can click on the client number, sometimes you can see an email address associated with that client profile and often it's the extension of productioncompanycom and I started noticing production companies that I used to work with or that on Voice123. So I was like oh, interesting. So apparently there has been a migration of ethical, well-paying production companies making quality content that had been slowly making their way to Voice123 and probably Voicescom too, because it's easier to curate a roster, it's easier to post an audition.  14:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh my gosh, yeah, you have hundreds and thousands of people of different voices on these platforms and it can be a little bit cheaper. I know that was the whole thing, because here you're not necessarily saying how much will it cost, right, when you have a direct contact, versus specify your budget, right? A lot of these pay-to-plays asked you to specify a budget and so if you specified a lower budget, you could still have hundreds of people responding to this, because it was like freelancer Odesk. It started to become the lowest bid, wins almost.  15:23 - Intro (Announcement) Yes.  15:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Like kind of thought, and especially when you're talking after the many years of online casting, it just then became a thing where, oh, I can get cheaper voiceover, and for a business, right, I can have lots of different voices I can choose from and it's probably cheaper. And so for a business, I mean really, where's that business decision, unless you've caught them right and you've become like a valued voiceover actor for them, that you've given them value over and over and over again. Now, all of a sudden, they have hundreds of thousands of people they can choose from that are credible, right, and they're cheaper. So business decision, tom?  16:00 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, here's the thing about that too is like since 2020, since I rejoined, my gigs aren't $100 or $200. They're $4, $5, $6, over $1,000.  16:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Because you can specify that.  16:15 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Because I can specify that and that also tells me that there are ethical, well-paying production companies on Voice123 in addition to bottom feeders. So in spring of 2021, the algorithm changed All of a sudden. The auditions there was a lot less and they were a lot lower paying, so I didn't renew.  16:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, they redid their platform a couple of times completely. So that caused a lot of commotion in the voiceover world.  16:35 And, interestingly enough, tom, I just want to bring this up who else was sitting on that stage at VO Atlanta but Rolf Veldman, who was always the one from Voice123 that got a lot of heat from these conferences. But I love Rolf. I think, rolf, he took it year after year after year right as a person who was not necessarily in the voiceover business either, but he would show up and he would respond and he was, I believe, transparent, which then I gave him my respect for that Because, if nothing else, he was transparent.  17:11 He finally was on the stage and probably going wow, the guy from Voicescom is getting all the heat this year.  17:18 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Oh, he was grinning from ear to ear. He was eating it with a spoon. He loved it. So 2022, I rejoined again, but this time I joined on the $2,200 tier. So this was late March 2022. In that year, I made $12,000. And then 2023, which is my first full calendar year of being under the $2,200 tier, I made almost $19,000.  17:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's a definite return on investment. So.  17:42 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, and as of this year, 2022, and today, as of literally today, April, I have made $6,200.  17:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now is the majority of that from new clients or clients that are coming back to you.  17:55 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Well, that's the thing, it's a combination. So there's two sets of clients, you know, there's your audition and pray clients, and then there's your legacy clients.  18:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Audition and pray Yep, absolutely Right.  18:06 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Commercials tend to be audition and pray. Cartoons, video games tend to be audition and pray. E-learning, corporate explainer, more of the audio book. Often those tend to be non-audition and pray because often you join an e-learning roster or you join a telephony roster and you don't audition, they just send you work. So with Voice123, there's a lot of them. One particular one comes to mind I auditioned for a corporate, short, three-minute, corporate industrial about bananas in a grocery store. If you work in the produce department, how do you handle the bananas to make sure they don't bruise, how to display them properly, quality check and all that stuff. It was a gig. Three minutes directed session, $550. So I'm like okay, that's like right in the sweet spot for that. That's like perfectly fine For three minutes directed session, great. And then they sent me nine more without auditioning.  18:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.  19:00 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) So an audition in Prey see, that's what people think about Voice123 is that it's an audition in Prey machine. It is if you suck, and it is if you can't audition well, and it is if you can't deliver the goods once you audition and book the spot. So I do have a lot of new clients, but a lot of them, a lot of them, have come back for more.  19:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And with Voice123,. One of the big differences of the platforms is that you can take the client off the platform. They have never intercepted and I don't believe that they will, because I think that's Rolf's claim to fame and how they lasted right through the turmoil of people being angry at them was that you could always take the client off the platform. Now, voicescom does everything in their power to make you not take the client off the platform, and that is where they get into people labeling them as double and triple dippers.  19:50 So not only are you paying for that yearly membership fee and they also have different levels. But when you have a managed job or any job you cannot disclose, you won't know their email address, you cannot work with them off platform and people have been threatened if it's found out that they're working with them off platform. So thoughts on that business policy. Tom, what do you think about that?  20:17 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I'm going to answer that question with a question. Do you think voice actors should pay to audition for anything?  20:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, you know, yeah, that's a really, really good question. I mean, I don't think so.  20:27 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I don't think so to a point.  20:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think they should pay for a platform that gives them opportunities. So that's a tough one, right? I mean should they pay to audition.  20:38 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Well, I think of it this way If you told me 20, 25 years ago that I would have to pay to watch a Yankee game on television, I would have said you're out of your mind. And now they have the yes Network, where you have to pay to have access to get the quality content that you want. That being a Yankee game and auditions are quality content and that's a subscription model of a lot of businesses today.  21:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, and even I've considered it for this podcast, right, all right, so you can get a certain amount of listens free, but there is quality content or maybe more in-depth content that you would subscribe to.  21:13 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) And you do keep it with subscriptions, like Patreon pages do, and things like that. Yes, it's a common business model. Here's another question Do you think voice actors should get paid to do auditions?  21:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, that's a good question. Not necessarily. It depends on if that gets used right, If their audition gets used for the job, if you're getting paid.  21:32 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Is it a demo or a scratch track?  21:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think so. But now, okay, let's just say you pay for the option or you pay for the opportunity to get auditions. Should then there be an escrow fee? Right, and that's what a lot of people have the problem with an escrow fee. And should there be a managed services fee? And should there be a managed services fee? Now, anybody that manages a job, right that project, manages the job. A manager takes a percentage, an agent takes a percentage, but then on top of an annual fee right to audition, plus an escrow fee. Now, if you remember, tom, in the beginning Voicescom's escrow fee was an option and I believe is it still an option. If you want to do, because escrow was an option back in the early days, you could choose to have them hold the money or say I'm going to get my money guaranteed if I put it in escrow, and then you paid a fee for that.  22:27 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I think it's mandatory now.  22:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, so that's triple dipping to a lot of people right, Get rid of one of those fees, I mean do you feel that's right.  22:40 - Intro (Announcement) I mean, I think it's fair that it's either you pay to be on the site and there's no additional fees or being on the website is free and then they're taking a percentage of it, not both.  22:48 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Now, you weren't there for the Q&A. Our friend, miranda Ellis, who I was sitting next to in the audience, got up and she said I have a problem with the fact that one of the casting spec options is broadcast in perpetuity. And she said that's a big problem for a lot of voice actors because that can create permanent conflicts. She asked are you going to get rid of that? And he said no, because we would lose a lot of business that way. That's not a good answer. That's the only thing I was truly unhappy about with his answers, but he owned it.  23:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, honestly, I think that it's a responsible action for an online platform like that to like lead the way. Right, because here's the deal. Right, you're talking about consumer mentality. I mean in voiceover jobs, I mean if people are not used to. If you're a small company, you're not used to hiring a voice artist and you're not sure, like, how does that work? Right, I mean in perpetuity. I mean if you work for a company, right, and they hire you, you sign a contract, you're working full-time, everything you do for that company is property of the company, and that just became that same mentality. Right for the freelancers Okay, I'm going to pay you.  23:53 Work for hire yeah work for hire and I pay you and that's it, and that's where the mentality stayed for a lot of companies. I think if you are a large service provider to a voiceover, you should take the lead and do what's right and do what's ethical, and that to me would be like start it and say no in perpetuity. There's not an option for in perpetuity.  24:14 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Right.  24:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And that would be a nice thing. Otherwise we sit here and we fight, and we fight, and we fight like we've always fought right To get rid of in perpetuity. Do you think in perpetuity will ever go away, tom?  24:24 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I think it will always exist in some form yeah, I agree.  24:30 The thing that concerns me the most about it is that, like, if there's a casting notice and it says erotic, there is explicit sexual content. Everybody knows what that means. They know what they're getting into. If it's a casting notice for a political ad Democrat, republican or whatever you look at the script and you go oh okay, do I feel comfortable with this? You know what you're getting into. You can make a value decision. If it's these text-to-speech things, some of these casting notices, or if it's an online perpetuity, a lot of the voice actors don't know what that means. They don't know what they're getting into, and that's where SAG-AFTRA, nava and other organizations that's where the onus is on them to educate, to make sure that people are aware of what these things mean. That should not be the case. Voicescom should not have that option or the ability to modify the option.  25:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly. You know what I mean Exactly.  25:17 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Because there's genres and sub-genres. You know like, if you want a public service announcement forever to technically broadcast and have that be in perpetuity, you can make a case for that.  25:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know what I mean.  25:27 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) But it's too broad and it isn't explained. There should be like a little button or a little like question mark or a little thing next to it. You click on that and it's like this is what this means.  25:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And voice actors should have been educated many, many, many years ago, right? And what does it mean when you deliver an audio file, right? This is where, okay, we're creatives, we're good at what we do, but we also this is where the business sense comes in. Right, here, have my audio.  25:53 And usually what happens is something bad has to happen for us to like say, oh shoot, I probably should have a terms of service or a statement of work or a contract for all our non-broadcast stuff. So all our non-broadcast people are like, yeah, sure, give me a hundred dollars or give me $500, give me a thousand, that's perfect. And then all of a sudden, they find that their voice is out there on TikTok, you know, I mean, I'm not saying that that was Bev, but things like that happen, right. Or it even happens today with agents that are looking after our best interests, where sometimes you'll find a commercial that was supposed to only be regional which is now in a different place. And how do we know about it? Not until somebody tells us about it. And so we should. Now, with the technology, there should be a way to voice print and tag our audio so that we know if it's not where it should be, and it's being used.  26:41 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) And they're working on that? Yeah, exactly, they are working on that, exactly.  26:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wow, I really feel as though we should have a part two and a part three and a part four with this conversation. But wow, tom, good stuff. Thank you so much for sharing. I love that you shared the real numbers. I mean, anybody that knows me knows how much I love talking numbers because it really brings a level of realism to the bosses and I think that we all need to really see those numbers and it really helps to educate us on making good decisions for our businesses. So, thank you, tom, it was wonderful talking to you again and I look forward to the next podcast. Bosses, I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can connect and network like bosses real bosses like Tom and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. All right, have an amazing week, guys, and we'll see you next week. Bye.  27:33 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

When Danielle Famble traded the bright lights of musical theater for the voiceover booth, she didn't just change careers—she embodied the essence of a true entrepreneur. Grab your headphones and join the BOSS, Anne Ganguzza, as we navigate through Danielle's remarkable journey, discussing how her roots in musical theater have equipped her with a unique resilience and CEO mindset for her flourishing voiceover career. From emotional trials to asserting her worth in the industry, her story is a masterclass in transforming her performing arts discipline into a voiceover triumph. We discuss the intricacies of a successful business mindset, emphasizing the need for mentorship, community, and the wisdom of collective experience. We uncover the secrets behind tracking progress, efficiency, and how a transparent approach to finances can empower artists, especially women and women of color, helping them to assert their worth and command the rates they deserve. 00:01 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am really excited to bring on a very special guest and Boss Danielle Famble. Danielle is a full-time voice actor with a performing background in musical theater and on TV, and transitioned from the stage to the booth in 2019. And since that time, she has voiced for amazing brands like Google, pepsi, etsy, prudential Hertz, the US Army and more, and she recently presented this almost viral breakout presentation at VO Atlanta, which I heard nothing but amazing things about, about how to build your business like a CEO With a CEO mindset. It was very, very well received and I am so excited to talk to her today about that CEO mindset. Danielle, thanks so much for joining us.  01:12 - Danielle Famble (Host) Hey, thanks for having me, anne, this is fun.  01:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah. So let's talk a little bit first about your career, because I feel like anybody that transitions into the career voiceover has to have an entrepreneurial mindset to begin with. Transitions into the career of voiceover has to have an entrepreneurial mindset to begin with, and so that really works well with being a boss. So tell us a little bit about your career and how you went from musical theater and are you still singing, I hope into voiceover.  01:37 - Danielle Famble (Host) Well, I grew up actually, I'm from Texas originally and my family, my parents, my grandparents they were entrepreneurial. My mom and dad had a water store. They sold water in the 90s Crazy.  01:50 Everybody needs it, right, everybody needs it. So they were good and my grandparents had like an afterschool snack truck. So I grew up around businesses and seeing my family, my parents, running businesses, and I'm also a middle child, so I love attention, I guess is the polite way to say it. So I always grew up, you know, singing in church or performing in school. So it was sort of a natural progression for me to go to school for musical theater, majoring in classical music and minoring in theater, and I knew, based on a trip coming to New York City in high school, that I wanted to do musical theater and move here.  02:31 So for me, I just I don't know I had this entrepreneurial background with my parents and my family and loving to perform, and realizing it took a while, but realizing, especially moving to New York, that this is a business and you have to market yourself and learn and do all the things that you need to do to run a business.  02:51 So my transition really was from doing musical theater, I performed on cruise ships and performed, you know, all over the country at theme parks and regional theaters, and then in 2020, the pandemic happened and I had this background of acting and performing, but I really wanted to figure out how I could make that background work with voiceover. So that's when I transitioned from like 2019 up to 2020, made that transition to voiceover and realized that my entrepreneurial background really helped because, unlike being on the stage for me anyway, I was able to look at what I could do with and without the help of agents and managers and realize that I could carve my own way myself with the help of reps, agents, managers, things like that. So it kind of just all dawned on me that my past and my upbringing really was helpful in creating this CEO mindset.  03:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now, do you do anything outside of voiceover? Are you still in music or in theater as well? Or is it just something that you just fell in love with? Voiceover and that's it? You're just full force.  04:06 - Danielle Famble (Host) I kind of fell in love with voiceover and I'm full force. I will say I miss singing, I miss being on stage, I miss people. And so to fill my soul, I think what I'm now doing is I live in the New York City area, so going to the symphony or going to a Broadway show, I'm going to go tomorrow night to see my friend who's made his Broadway debut. So filling my soul in that way and maybe even getting back into singing lessons.  04:33 This is a new development. Yeah, that's, I think, what I'm going to be doing. But there was a lot of, I guess, trauma from growing up and it can be a hard business on your emotional state, and that part of it I don't really miss, and so I think it was a good voiceover Well, yes, that's true, that's true. I think I've learned how to navigate it better.  04:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, I think maybe that prepared you Probably Right, because I think that well, maybe people who are not familiar with stage and music and that is hardcore, facing like rejection or that type of thing, and so you have to really develop a thick skin and I think by the time you get to voiceover, maybe that helped prepare you in some way for that. But also, I think your experience from growing up with your parents and your grandparents who are entrepreneurs I mean I love that that was a great showcase. It was a great example for you as a young child to see that you could do anything. My parents were kind of the same way and I really attribute it to my entrepreneurial mindset, where there was a belief that if I wanted to pursue that and it was something that brought me great joy I could do that for a living and I could pursue that and be able to pay the bills by doing that.  05:45 So let me ask you, what would you say would be the biggest challenge that you faced in that transition, in creating a business for voiceover, because it sounds to me like you had a good idea of okay, I know that it's more than just performing right, I think a lot of people want to just go into their studios and do voiceover all day, but I think there's so much more to it, because you could be the best voice artist, the best singer, the best actor in the world, but if nobody knows about it, you can't get hired Right, and that's where I think your entrepreneurial business mindset has to come into play. So what was your biggest challenge when you transitioned from one career into the next?  06:24 - Danielle Famble (Host) I would say my biggest challenge was honestly recognizing that it was a business, because I wanted to jump in. The actor and the performer in me just wanted to get really good at how to perform in front of the mic and do the perfect read and the perfect conversational read, or at that time it was the we're all in this together read right.  06:44 So that was a hard transition for me to realize that there was more to this job than just talking into a microphone. Once I realized that I think it was mostly just needing to send out invoices and collecting the payment on time and answering questions that I just didn't know the answer to, and there were a lot of I don't knows and then learning as I went. That I think, was the hardest part, because at that time you don't know what you don't know, and part of running a business is realizing all the things that you don't know and having to figure out the answer to it or at least come up with this next answer, and then iterate as you get better?  07:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Sure, yeah, absolutely. So then what would you say was your most successful path into really making this more of a business mindset? Did you read a great book? Did you do a lot of research? Did you talk to your parents? What was it that helped you to really create that CEO mindset?  07:40 - Danielle Famble (Host) I would say getting help and finding a mentor. I coached with a lot of different people. I coached Facebook group Voice Actors of NYC to be invaluable because there are so many people who will offer help or resources or ideas. But not going it alone, I think, would be the best resources. Find your tribe, find a mentor, find someone who can help you, because it's so much faster for you to progress when you have other people to bounce those ideas off of.  08:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely. Now you talked a little bit about the importance of being able to scale your business and to be able to track your progress in terms of how to mark your success and how to move forward in your business. Can you talk a little bit about that?  08:44 - Danielle Famble (Host) Yeah, I noticed and I learned and I knew this from even my parents and grandparents the data is the most important thing that you can have to know where you are and where you want to go. So tracking my numbers was incredibly important to me, and I don't just mean income. I wanted to get better at how quickly I could do auditions, and so I was tracking how many auditions I was doing a day and I could tell by looking at the numbers if I was getting faster or more efficient. I care a lot about money and numbers and love to talk about money actually.  09:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wait, can you repeat that? Because I love a woman who can— oh, I care a lot about numbers and money.  09:23 - Danielle Famble (Host) It is not a bad word.  09:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It is not a bad word. Thank you, Danielle.  09:26 I didn't mean to interrupt you, but I was so excited that you could say that I was maybe I was the only other person that said look, I love to make money and I love the challenge in how can I make more money? And so I think having a healthy mindset with money is very important. Let's talk a little bit more about that, danielle. I think a lot of it stems too from different mindset or different ideals that you have as you grow up Like. Is money a bad word or is money a good thing? And especially being female, can a female make a lot of money and is that a good thing? Let's talk about that.  09:58 - Danielle Famble (Host) Yeah, absolutely. I think there needs to be a healthy conversation about money with women, specifically For me I preach it women of color because sometimes, as women, we feel uncomfortable asking for what it is that we want, yeah, and what you're worth and what you're worth, and being able to say it with confidence and say this is my rate or can we negotiate on a rate? Can you do better with the rate that you've proposed? Having these conversations is important because me, as a business, I'm running a business and having business conversations with other businesses when they're asking me to license the use of my voice for their project. So I don't feel weird talking about business with a business.  10:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Sure, because that's what I'm doing, and money is the language of business.  10:48 - Danielle Famble (Host) So finding that level of comfort and being able to feel comfortable in talking about money, sure, and knowing that you are worth the amount that you've stated, or more, it's baseline, I think.  11:03 From there, that's when you can grow and feel more comfortable.  11:07 Another thing for me was getting over that starving artist mentality.  11:12 I feel like it's kind of glorified, especially when I was coming from a musical theater background.  11:17 I mean, I remember standing in line for hours on end waiting to sing my 16 bar cut so that I could maybe book a job that was going to pay me $300 a week at some regional theater and I was grateful and while that is fine and it happened and I needed it at the time, it's not where I'm at anymore. I couldn't do that anymore and that's one of the reasons why it was important to me to sort of figure out what else I could do outside of theater, because it was no longer aligning with how I wanted to live my life, because my life cost a certain amount of money and I needed to find other ways to live the life that I wanted and be able to pay for it. And that's not a bad thing knowing that it's going to cost you money, and I'm okay with asking for what I want and also saying no if it doesn't work out. No is a full sentence and if a number doesn't work for you.  12:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's great. No is a full sentence. I love that. It's a full sentence.  12:15 - Danielle Famble (Host) And if it doesn't work for you, be okay with saying no and holding by your no.  12:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, let's talk a little bit more about that, because I and holding by your no. Well, let's talk a little bit more about that, because I think that for a lot of people starting out in the industry, they're just afraid to ask for what they're worth, or they're afraid to negotiate. And so if a potential client comes to you and they don't have a budget to pay you what you feel you're worth, like what does it take? Like in terms of how do you get up the confidence to say no? And for me it's always been well, you only have to do it once, because once it works out in your favor, then it gives you all the confidence in the world. But tell me about your experience. Did you have an experience where you were scared to say no? Or you thought, oh my gosh, maybe I should do this job for this low pay?  12:57 - Danielle Famble (Host) Let's talk about that no-transcript, still want to do it, even at a lower rate? And if the answer is no, can I tell them no and have that uncomfortable conversation like you're saying just once, saying something like unfortunately, this number does not work for me or align with what I would normally quote. I wish you all the best, finding the right voice talent for this project. And then that's it. And I've noticed that when I do that, I've left my day open, my time open. Another job could come my way that pays me the rate that I'm looking for and that I need, or I can do something else, and maybe that something else is getting out of the booth, getting out of the house, going and seeing some friends or doing something that enriches my life, and there's no monetary value that I can put on that.  14:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, I think when you can enrich your life, it enriches your product, it enriches your business, because I think it all feeds.  14:28 It's just a wonderful, wonderful cycle and I love that you mentioned that you're going to go see your friend on Broadway and I feel like for me it's like I need to watch a great movie, because it really stirs up the creative juices and it really helps me to be even better at my job, at my business, and to be more creative, because that's what really we do for a living is we need to have that creativity, we need to bring that to life, and I feel like anything that you can do externally, even outside of voiceover, to enhance that is absolutely a good thing for your business. So, yeah, go out and enjoy life, because that's going to help your business. I like to think of that. Let's talk about your business and growing your business, because I think there's a lot of people that they get to a certain level where they're happy and then sometimes they don't advance or progress or they stagnate and then they're like but I don't know how to get more work. Or talk to me about growing your business.  15:26 - Danielle Famble (Host) Often looked at growing my business from a financial perspective. Again, I have no problem talking about money, and so for me growth looks like a monetary jump or incremental growth even. So I'm tracking how many jobs I've done in a month or per year. I'm tracking how much revenue I brought in. I need to know how much I need to pay in taxes, so I'm staying on top of that.  15:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Speaking of which, it's like almost April.  15:56 - Danielle Famble (Host) Can we talk about it?  15:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) This happened quickly, my goodness, yeah, yeah, now are you working? Just thinking of numbers, because you don't have a problem talking numbers. Are you doing your own accounting? Oh no I am not.  16:07 - Danielle Famble (Host) Oh, that's another thing, I think, outsourcing, outsource what you are either not good at or not passionate about. I agree, those are the things that I have outsourced, and one of the things I talked in my talk about was finding your different departments in your team. So I have a financial team and I have a bookkeeper. I have a CPA.  16:25 I have a financial advisor. It's an S-corp, my company and so there are so many different moving parts that I don't know and I need help with people who know better so that they can help educate me and I can make the right decisions, because we are working together and they are working with me so that we can move my agenda forward for where I want to be with my business and my life. So I'm not just doing as they're telling me to do. I want to know and I want to learn and I want to be with my business and my life. So I'm not just doing as they're telling me to do. I want to know and I want to learn and I want to understand. So finding people who have the heart of a teacher to be able to help me understand why I need to pay this much money in taxes or whatever has been really very helpful.  17:06 But in terms of growing my business, I look at it from a place of numbers and the finances, but I also have certain goals when it comes to I want to maybe have the non-broadcast side of my business be a certain amount of money, so that can be a specific goal, but typically I just look at the end of the year, going to the next year and see where I was and create goals typically financial goals in my business, and that's how I mark growth. Lately, though, it's been for me wanting to be a better business owner and entrepreneur and pushing myself personally. You talked about me speaking at VO Atlanta. That was my very first time speaking at a conference at all, and while I absolutely love talking about business and everything with my friends, I've never really said it in a room full of people, so I think that is a way that I'm hoping to grow as a person and as a business owner to feel more confident, sharing what I know and what I'm passionate about, and letting people know that that can be part of the growth as well.  18:08 It may not be something monetary, but it's something that I can mark as my own personal growth and that will help me be a better voice actor.  18:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, you know, what's so interesting is that because you have no problem talking about money, I think inadvertently, without you maybe even realizing it. What I love is that because you kept really accurate, probably track right of finances in and out and you goals and you actually wrote them down with numbers. I'm a big believer in writing things down and writing goals down and that helps you to manifest. I mean, yes, of course there's hard cold numbers, right, but also, I think, writing down goals and writing down an actual number, because so many people are afraid of the numbers I mean I'll talk about before I owned my own business. It would be maybe my spending right, you've got that credit card right, and I might be like here, have my credit card, and I wouldn't really look at the money that was going out. And the more you kind of are in denial of it right, the more right you're unaware, and I think that you need to be aware of the numbers, probably more so than most people. You seem to be really comfortable with numbers and I think that's something to aspire to for a lot of voice actors, because a lot of voice actors are not necessarily an accountant or like numbers or like doing the finances.  19:21 I don't like doing the finances either, but I also outsource. I have an accountant that I have on retainer and I am forced to look at those numbers consistently, in and out, and it helps me to set goals and it helps me to make those goals too. I think that's so important and I love that. That just seemed to be second nature for you, and now I think what you're doing is you're pushing yourself to let's do more, maybe more ethereal goals, personal goals, growth goals, like I want to speak at a conference, and that's a really lovely way for all of us to like, push ourselves to think outside the box in something that maybe doesn't come comfortably to us. And now, what else can we do? Because if we grow personally, we're also going to grow in our business.  20:03 - Danielle Famble (Host) Absolutely, and I really like your point about how your personal finances correlate to how your finances are going in your business, because that was, for me, as well, the same thing. I had to get good with my personal finances and once I was able to look at the numbers, look at my bank account every day.  20:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Look at the hard cold facts.  20:25 - Danielle Famble (Host) The hard cold facts of it and deal with that. Then that practice went into how I run the numbers for my business, because if I was a hot mess with my personal finances, how could I expect to be running a business that pays their taxes on time and doesn't have debt, and all that?  20:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) stuff, and just because you hire right or you outsource for your finances doesn't mean that you are not educated about it. Right, you have to be educated in order to manage anybody that you're outsourcing right, you need to be able to manage people, and you need to be educated so that you can manage it properly and make educated decisions, and so I love that. While I don't love to do financial I don't like to balance the checkbook on a day-to-day basis I certainly don't have a problem outsourcing to my accountant, and then we meet once a week, once a month, and we talk about, okay, inflows and outflows, and where did I spend my money? Where can I save my money? Where should I invest my money next? And I think that that is really.  21:23 I think taking the cold hard look at numbers financially is what is missing, with a lot of voice actors that just start out that especially think that, well, it's just talking behind the mic and so therefore, I don't need to invest. Let's talk for a moment about investment in your business, right, and outsourcing is one part of it. How important do you think investing is in order to have, maintain a successful business and grow your business?  21:48 - Danielle Famble (Host) It is vital to invest in your business and ways that you can invest in your business, be it the equipment, so your booth, or your microphone or anything like that the hard products and it doesn't need to be that you are investing a ton of money. I really, truly believe in grow as you go. So if you can afford a certain amount of money for a microphone or an interface or what have, you get that because you can always upgrade as time goes on. For me, it's very important to not have a lot of debt with my business, so I will buy what I can afford at the time and then I will upgrade. So that's very important.  22:26 And then also investing in yourself, because you are the product, so investing in classes or going to conferences or coaching or reading business books, taking business classes, getting outside of the world of voiceover for your education Not saying that there's anything wrong with the education in the voiceover community but we are also running businesses. So what kind of business education are you getting? Do you need to take a course on how to use QuickBooks or something like that? There are so many different ways to invest in the hard product and the soft skills that you need to run a business. Also, we said it already, but investing in help, because the help can be the education. So my CPA is helping inform me about certain things. I have a virtual assistant who I'm outsourcing some of the day-to-day work in my business and she's helping me and we're coming up with systems and processes to be a little bit more efficient every single day. So those kind of investments, when you're pouring into yourself and you're pouring into your business, that's how you can start to see your business grow quickly.  23:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely. I think investment is also something that scares a lot of people when they first get into this industry, and it is something that I think is absolutely essential. It's essential to be prepared to invest in your business and in yourself, and so that means, because I'm a coach and I work with students, and I have been doing it for quite some time I will encounter new students that will be like yeah, but can I just get my demo because I need to start making money in the industry, but yet they haven't really fully prepared themselves for investments that they might make, and that includes investing in themselves, investing in the possibility of outsourcing. I've had so many people say but I can't afford that right now. First of all, I always say don't quit your day job before you get into voiceover full time. Now let me ask you a question. I know that you are in musical theater, but do you also have an additional job at some point to help support your business or to be able to have money to invest in your business?  24:27 - Danielle Famble (Host) I was working at. So picture this I was working at, so picture this 2020. Yes, right, I was working a day job at the Apple Store, okay, and I was waiting tables at night at a comedy club, wow. So I was working two jobs and then auditioning and wanting to sort of move into voiceover around my two jobs. And the good thing was working at the Apple store. I had access to Logic Pro and I had access to buying certain equipment with a discount, so that job was very, very helpful for me to start acquiring what I needed the computers that I'm using, like all of those things. It was really helpful and I did not want to quit my job until I knew for a fact that I could be self-sustaining.  25:18 And even then I was 16 years old, with two jobs in high school. Like I have always worked a lot, so I do think that making sure that your job is not a hindrance your job can be one of the best assets that you have while you're growing your business, and even while you're in your business. Your job is an asset, so make sure that you treat it as such and you think about it as such Changing that mindset will be so helpful really.  25:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely. I think there's a lot of people who they're either they feel like they're stuck in a corporate job or they feel like that they can't do a job in another sector if they want to call themselves a voice actor. I'm always like, look, side hustles are what helped me to be able to invest and to grow my business, and it was a wonderful way to be able to have the money to invest in, let's say, outsourcing or invest in coaching or invest in a new demo, so that I could grow my business. And I did multiple jobs and I still like to think of my business like I'm not just full time voice actor. Anybody that knows me knows I have this podcast, I have the VO Peeps group, I love coaching and so I'm a voice actor. So I have multiple divisions of my business, just like anybody else would have in their business. So I feel like that there's no shame in having multiple passions and multiple divisions of your business if it can help you to grow.  26:43 - Danielle Famble (Host) Yeah, and it helps you stay well-rounded as well, like that job can be the thing that keeps you afloat so that you can say no, and that's bolstering you to maintain your standards and your rates that you need I love that it's an asset that can help you say no I'm just going to reiterate that to the bosses.  27:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That was so important, right, because when you're out there, desperate because maybe you just gave up everything so that you could do voiceover full timetime and then you're possibly like desperate for a job and you'll accept low pay I love what you just said that your job is an asset and it can help you to say no when it's necessary. Right, so that you can have that money and you're not dependent on it to pay the bills or anything, so yeah, Fantastic.  27:26 What would be your top tip or the best advice you could give somebody just starting out in the industry to be the best CEO, the best boss that they can be?  27:37 - Danielle Famble (Host) I would tell people to make sure that you are educating yourself Education, I think, would be the biggest tip yourself by finding a mentor or a coach or someone who you can work with. That will help you where you feel that you need help or support Educating yourself on how to be a voice actor and do the type of genres that you're wanting to do. Educating you on how to run your business, if that's what you need help with. But I would say the first thing I always will tell people if they ask me like, hey, I want to be a voice actor, get in a class, take a class. Maybe it's a performance class, maybe it is a business coaching something, but take a class, because being an entrepreneur is just learning every day as you know, You've got to learn something new every day and be open to the fact that maybe you don't know and you need to learn.  28:30 So keeping your brain moldable and learning. Being in a class is the best way and it's low-hanging fruit because you're learning. You're not quite doing it every day all the time, quite yet. It is vital to find out what you don't know and then write that down, write down your process and then iterate on that process. Love it.  28:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh my gosh, Danielle, I could talk to you all day and I really, really appreciate you sharing these little nuggets of wisdom, and I feel like we could maybe do five podcasts at least. So thank you so, so much for joining us. How can bosses get in touch with you, danielle, if they want to follow you or be the boss like?  29:10 - Danielle Famble (Host) you, danielle, if they want to follow you or be the boss like you. Yeah, you can follow me. I'm on at DanielleFambul on all socials, and then you can go to my website, daniellefambulcom.  29:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Awesome. Well, it was definitely a pleasure. Bosses out there, I'm going to give a big shout out to my sponsor, ipdtl. You too can network and connect like bosses like Danielle and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses have an amazing week. We'll see you next week and thanks so much, danielle. Bye, thanks, anne, bye.  29:38 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Arm yourself against voiceover scams with insights from Anne Ganguzza and Lau Lapides. The BOSSES shine a light on the potential dangers of casting scams, providing you with the necessary tools and instincts to recognize when something simply doesn't look right. From notorious overpayment traps to false urgency ploys, we dissect the mechanics of these schemes, emphasizing the importance of due diligence and healthy skepticism. Navigating potential job offers can be intimidating, but this episode will help you confidently sidestep the dangers. The BOSSES unpack the nuances of vetting opportunities, the significance of physical company locations, and the red flags that warrant a second look. 00:01 - Intro (Host) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with the lovely Lau Lapides. Yay, Nice to be back, Hi Law, as always. Hi Annie, Lau, you know I'm wearing my red today.  00:37 - Lau Lapides (Host) You're looking all red and crimson-y and like ready to rock and roll Like a red flag.  00:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, I'm so punny sometimes. So now what are we going to talk about today? Let's talk about, maybe, red flags and or scams. I know that they are a popular topic, but I think it's something that we need to watch out for in the industry these scams that go around and ask us to submit our voices and then gosh only knows what happens after that. Typically, it has something to do with money, but, yeah, law. What are your thoughts about scams and how we can avoid them as bosses?  01:15 - Lau Lapides (Host) Well, totally prevalent. We get it. It's in every industry. And I have to tell you and I know you've been experiencing this too in the last few years tell you and I know you've been experiencing this too in the last few years there have been an onslaught of hackers and slackers and scammers and bammers and everything you call them. They're around and they are literally coming at you. So, as a business owner, you have to be ready for it. They're literally trying to get through your firewalls, whether it's your website, your software. I have, unfortunately, a resident new stalker who leaves me voicemails. You got to be ready for that. You got to take the personalization and emotion out of it and protect yourself, protect yourself and protect your business Absolutely.  02:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I know that there's some great first of all resources online that you can find out. I mean, the number one thing is is if you, let's say, get an email or a phone call and it's asking you to submit something personal, like your voice file or an audio file or give money, the first thing that I think you can do is to take action is to Google. Google is your friend and again Google here. Google is your friend and again Google here. Google is your friend because a lot of times, especially even if you get like a phone call right, you can put in the phone number and you can see if it's a phone scam, or you can put in the subject of the email and see if you can find anything out there that talks about it.  02:39 There might be discussions in Reddit. There might be discussions on Facebook that say, yes, this is a scam, don't believe it. But the thing of it is is to make sure. If something doesn't feel right or something is off, then definitely take the first step and research it, go to Google. That's what I would say would be your first step, and then there are lots of other tips and tricks that we have for you. Bosses out there Law. What would you say is your first and foremost line of defense if you feel you've been taken advantage of or are being scammed Right.  03:09 - Lau Lapides (Host) There's a bunch of stuff we can do and, by the way, I would take what Annie said even a step further and I would make sure you're talking to your inner circle of your coaches, your uppers in the industry, people who are in the know, Because I have found, Annie, that if I go to Google, or a lot of you may be now using DuckDuckGo only because Google has a lot of online drones that go after you now. So if you use DuckDuckGo and you're on there, you're going to find they do have websites oftentimes and they do look legitimate and they lift that information. It's very easy to make a landing page. So you have to really talk to people in the industry that really would know to really cross-check. I always say go with your gut instinct. Your gut instinct is telling you something. Listen to it. One of the big scams, Annie, that is out there is the overpayment scam. This is big in our industry. That's where the client sends you, right.  04:02 Well, let's describe what it is for people who don't know what it is. It's a client sends you money, right, and they say that they're expecting to ask you to send the overpayment to someone else. It's like this. We used to call them chain scams. Right, don't do anything of the sort. Never accept money, never send money.  04:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, never send money to somebody who claims to be your client number one. I mean Never, never.  04:26 - Lau Lapides (Host) I mean that's a red flag right there. Right, that's your red flag, right there.  04:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So basically they've sent you money, but it's typically it's a check that is not legit. Yes, exactly. So when they ask you to, send money back, then you basically are just giving them money, the overpayment. You are giving them money for nothing because they've given you a fraudulent check.  04:47 - Lau Lapides (Host) Hello, and what about the urgency one? This plays on your emotions. This is the sense of urgency making you feel like you're under pressure. Right, the client pressures you to like, handle the payment processing really fast, because there's a reason to handle it really fast. And they want to scramble your brain, they want to get you confused and discombobulated. So you're not thinking straight and you're just acting because you may feel like, oh, I want that job, it sounds great. Or you're a little desperate, you haven't worked in a while, sounds like a great job, you don't want to miss out on it. So they'll put that urgency on it for you. So be very, very careful of that.  05:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And that urgency can be to submit voice files of which they will not pay you for. That goes back to law. This is like a business practice For me for many, many years. When I negotiate a job with a client, I especially a new client that I'm not familiar with I will always ask for payment upfront. It is not a big thing to ask, as a matter of fact, the way that I'm not familiar with.  05:47 I will always ask for payment up front. It is not a big thing to ask as a matter of fact, the way that I word it in my email is payment is appreciated and preferred up front. Otherwise, other options are available upon request, and so for a new client, I will request that they pay me up front before I even send them an audio file, and I'll tell you what. 99.9% of the time, unless it's a large client that has to go through a process to pay, like through purchase orders or something like that I will get payment and I will request payment electronically, because that way I can guarantee that the money lands in my account first. Then I will send them files, and so, therefore, when it's requested up front after you've negotiated and then it's a statement that is right on my email that says payment in full appreciated made to my Venmo or my PayPal and then basically other options available upon request and I get it.  06:42 Guys, I get it. I've been doing this for years. It's amazing how people are like well, charge 50%. I'm like, no, just ask for the full thing up front. Now, if somebody doesn't want to give you the full thing up front, then get on the phone with them. Make sure there's a human being at the other end of the line. This is not all done through email. These are some tips that I've learned over the years. Right is make sure you've got a human at the other end of the line and check out the business Again. There is a way to research those things online. Is there a business? Is there a phone number At the end of the email? Is there a signature file that has a company name, a way to contact them via email, via phone? I don't care how old school I sound, bosses, I get on the phone and I call yeah, you need to contact them.  07:26 - Lau Lapides (Host) I make sure there's a real person at the other end of the line. What about you? Because here's the other thing too. There's a double reason why you should contact them, especially by phone. If they're going to give you a phone number and that is, if it's a scam they need to know about it. So they need to know their identity has been stolen, and then they can put a post out online that people are coming at you using our name and our identity and it's not us. Yes, yes, absolutely, and they will really appreciate it. So there's the double reason to protect yourself, but also to protect that company, because sometimes they're just not going to know about it right.  07:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Sometimes they're stealing the identity of the company. Absolutely Right Filling the identity of the company.  08:02 - Lau Lapides (Host) Absolutely. One of my clients fell into this one, unfortunately, and that was she was already knee-deep into a job and she had submitted a bunch like 10 pages, 15 pages on a long form, and there were no edits. That's a red flag right there. So, unfortunately, she had already submitted something and she already saw oh, there are no edits. There's something wrong with that job, there's something strange. Also, if you see in your breakdown you're going to get, say, a form letter online asking you to be a VO for AI or for this or for that it could be for anything, right, and the numbers they use are weird. Look at weird numbers. Like we're going to use this from three and a half to 11 and a half months. You know the numbers look strange, they look off.  08:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, that's interesting. I would not have thought about that.  08:52 - Lau Lapides (Host) Yeah, strange numbers, like strange configurations of numbers. We used to look for grammar and lowercase, but now we can't do it anymore because they're going through chat, gpt, so everything is formatted fairly well. How about this one, you guys? How about this one? They're deeply, deeply focused and over-focused on the payment versus the job.  09:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I agree.  09:15 - Lau Lapides (Host) Yeah, payment, it's all about getting the money quick right.  09:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So they can get in and get out right, Because they really don't care about your audio files or they care about the audio files, and then they just ghost you and won't pay you. And that's a different type of a scam. Typically, that kind of falls within. What kind of clients are you working with? And again, I always say educate yourself on the client that is contacting you as soon as you get an email. That's typically how we get inquiries right. We'll get an email or we'll get a direct message from somebody. Make sure that they have a legitimate domain on the end of their contact information.  09:51 - Lau Lapides (Host) And what if they have a whole bunch of domains that lead you in circles?  09:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Different emails, different domains that confuse you, or a domain that doesn't exist for a company. It could just be somebody at gmailcom or somebody at hotmailcom. I would always look at those people twice because if they're a legitimate company they should have a company domain. It should be yada yada yadacom, and if they don't have that then I would be very suspect. If they do not include a phone number, I would be suspect. If they don't have a real signature file, I would be very suspect.  10:23 - Intro (Host) And as the law said back in the day.  10:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We used to look for grammatical errors, and now that's less common. Now you've got to look at more people that are stealing identities, and or maybe people who just don't put a valid domain at their email address or there's no way to contact them, even if they have a website. I can't stand when I go to a website and I can't find a phone number to contact someone. That to me— Well, that's unfortunately more common too.  10:49 - Lau Lapides (Host) That, to me, is a red flag. Yeah, and here's the problem with technology is it's getting so good that certain elements are cut out of our industry that used to be there. Like a lot of the bigger companies we work with do not provide you even customer service numbers anymore because they don't have staff to answer phones, so everything is a bot now. So you could be contacted by a bot. You don't know they're a bot. The bot is scheduled to get information, so never give your information out online. No account numbers, no bank numbers, no social security nothing.  11:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm going to say that any legitimate company will have a phone number, or at least any legitimate company will provide that they're harder to find, Annie, and I'll give you an example.  11:32 - Lau Lapides (Host) I'll give you a direct example. We're on the Calendly link. Whether you're using Acuity or Calendly, I dare you to find a phone number for them. And they are a legit global service, their calendars that we use all the time. You use them, we use them all the time.  11:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But I'm going to say that's dedicated to maybe software, right? I'm just going to say if you've got a company with people that maybe you're doing a corporate or an e-learning right, yeah, go after it. Yeah, you should absolutely be able to find a way to contact them. I mean, even like I buy a lot of clothing online just saying, Is that a surprise and I have a customer service issue. I want to be able to talk to a human being, right and you're right.  12:14 It is getting more and more difficult to find. However, I'm going to say that your chances are better if you do have a phone number that you can contact a human being at the other end of the line.  12:24 - Lau Lapides (Host) Of course, of course. But remember, I still caution people because I ran into this myself. For the banking fraudsters, because identity theft is number one in the US. So for the banking, they'll send you something that looks exactly like Bank of America exactly like. Paypal and they'll say you owe us $500.  12:43 - Speaker 4 (Host) Here's our invoice yeah, click here to resolve.  12:46 - Lau Lapides (Host) Click here, don't click on anything. Never click on anything. And if you call them, just know you may be calling someone that they hired within their fraud service. So I suggest, if at all possible, go to a location. Go to the location. If it's a bank or financial or whatever, you should be able to find a location where you can talk to someone live, like Annie's talking about, to try to get some sort of vetting on it, because you don't know, they look exactly real, they totally look real. And how about the big game show host? Oh gosh, yes, the game show host. The assignment for the game show host right, everyone's getting excited about that because you've been assigned to be a game show host? Yep, absolutely no, you haven't. No, you haven't, no, you haven't. The next step is going to be asking you for account information. Yes, exactly.  13:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And that's been going on for years and years. And so what they do is they appeal to our emotions, they appeal to our oh my. God, you've got a great job. You've been selected. I even at one point got contacted by Disney, who said that they researched me online and wanted me to audition and I'm like, I'm not so sure about this.  13:54 - Lau Lapides (Host) I don't think so. I mean as good as you all are and, I'm sure, even if you have excellent SEO.  14:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, that's an even bigger target. You're an even bigger target, that's a bigger target.  14:05 - Lau Lapides (Host) That's a bigger target Don't fall into. We found you online. I want you to audition. Well, go through my agent. Go through my agent.  14:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But I will say that I am very much an online business and I do have a lot of people that contact me for legit jobs through my website and through my social media channels and through referrals, and again, those are the ones that I trust. If they're coming through referrals, right, Because then I basically, oh sure, I have the job, but I always have the ability to contact someone or speak to them.  14:35 - Lau Lapides (Host) Oh, that's totally different. I mean, very rarely do I and I think I have pretty good visibility online. Very rarely do I have I found you online. That would be specifically through, like Google Ads purchased SEO. They'll get information, they'll be like a wannabe client of a coaching service or something like that, and you can feel that out very, very quickly. But when it comes to giving you a job as a talent, beware, keep those flags up. How about the interview, annie? Have you seen the online?  15:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) interviews, the online interviews.  15:06 - Lau Lapides (Host) Yeah, I've heard of them vaguely they invite you on to like Signal or Telegram, zoom, skype, whatsapp. Be careful of WhatsApp, you guys. Now, I love WhatsApp because it's free. It's an international community that can get on there for free. Who cannot text you? So I love it. We have it for our Talent Inner Circle members. That being said, do not jump on WhatsApp for interviews with anyone until you have vetted them, because that's a very common scam platform. It's just known to be that, so just be careful. Be aware of that. The language you have to be careful of too. Like does it look weird, even if it's gone through chat GPT. Like does it look strange? The sentence Does it sound strange?  15:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's not formed well, right? Yes, If English is not the first language, right formed well, right. Yes, If English is not the first language, right. So be careful of that. Well, first of all, I'm just going to say that clients that are international and I have a lot of international clients Typically the international clients that I work with are very well-spoken, well-versed in English, because they've worked with clients in the United States before. So if they are not as well-versed, I'll investigate them more. Because number one I want to make sure I get paid. There are certain clients that are known to not pay a whole lot for voiceover and they will give you lots and lots of promises for lots of work.  16:20 A lot of e-learning companies and I'm going to mention a lot of e-learning companies that are not based in the United States that want to hire you for as little money as possible per word. I'm a big person on e-learning that I don't quote per word, but I know a lot of people do, and here's my philosophy is that if somebody's asking you for a particular number per word, then probably right, they're hiring you. Right, You're a company, a curriculum developers or an e-learning company that's hiring the voice talent, so you're not the first line of paying. I'm just going to say because they're hiring you and so they want to negotiate the cheapest price because they don't want to pay a lot.  17:00 When I deal with e-learning clients, I deal with companies directly and I'm able to negotiate a much higher rate. So I don't typically quote on per word. But if somebody starts asking me for my price per word, I will get a little more rigorous about my investigation, because I want to make sure that I'm not going to be haggling over five cents or a penny or a word. And then also I'm going to make sure that I have a point of contact that I am able to contact either via email and that they get back to me right away, or that I can text them and even text if it's a new client. I'm going to try to see if I can call them or have a Zoom call Sure, absolutely.  17:38 - Lau Lapides (Host) Or have a Zoom call Absolutely absolutely. I would also be careful of wiring. Oh yeah, wiring. Wiring is tough nowadays. My partner won't do it anymore. They won't do it anymore, they just won't. They won't do it anymore, they just won't. They don't trust it. So they don't want to do that anymore. They'll do PayPal, they'll do Venmo.  17:53 - Intro (Host) They'll do it any other way.  17:54 - Lau Lapides (Host) But they won't do that. And I mean, needless to say, don't ever send money out for any reason. Ever Don't send it out unless you're sending your commission cut to your particular agent.  18:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's different. Well, that is legit. If a company needs to pay you and wants to pay you ACH, and wants to pay you right into your bank account, you will need to supply your bank account information and, for what it's worth when I investigated it, god, many years ago there's nothing dangerous about providing your account number. The bank itself has security in place so you can provide a full account number to somebody if they request it, and a routing number.  18:39 - Lau Lapides (Host) So all right. So I have a question about that. So let's say you haven't worked with a company. They've reached out to you. You want to work with them. What kinds of practices, Annie, do you use to vet them? Do you ask them for references? Do you ask them for clients? I know most legitimate companies that I know of and have worked with have actually put their client lists out. They're on their website, so I could really reach out to them and say, hey, do you know of this company? Have you worked with them? Whether I reached the right person or not is another thing, but the point is what do you do to vet a company?  19:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, that's a great question. So the first thing I do is I research them online. I do I research them online. I go to their website. I make sure that they have contact information on their website. If they don't, I'll ask the person that emailed me or reached out to me for their contact information. And then I'll say but I can't find a website, or I can't find any contact information. Do you have a point of contact in case I have questions about the project?  19:39 Right, and it becomes very much about you know, I'm interested because I want to be able to get a hold of someone in case I have questions, so that I can service them better, right? So it doesn't appear that I'm paranoid or not trusting, but I am asking in order to serve them better. So I make sure they have a website. And if they don't have a website, then I'm suspicious, because who doesn't have a website these days? If they don't have a website, maybe they're very small, and if they're very small, they might have budget issues. And then I want to make sure that they're going to pay me in full prior to my job start, like I request, and that they will pay me electronically. There will be no checks, or if there is a check, I won't start or deliver the job until I've cashed the check, and that's very rarely the case. I don't know when's the last time you wrote a check.  20:21 Almost never, very rarely, people who can't pay via any sort of electronic method these days or through a credit card, you know that kind of a thing then you're protected by all of that. And so, yeah, definitely research, definitely point of contact. And my last point is like literally talking to someone, and there's a lot to be said for a company's brand and a company's longevity, right. So how long have they been in business? Am I familiar with them? As you mentioned? What other companies have they dealt with? Have they dealt with other people?  20:51 I don't necessarily ask for references right away, because if it's a corporate entity, I might ask around the groups to see if anybody's worked with the company before. And yes, there's an actual group before Nava became very involved called the Red Flags Group. It's a Facebook group started by Dave Kavosier and is still around, where when we all had questions or we're all like hey, have you heard of this? We would post in that group. It's a wonderful group. It's still there. And there are some other groups like, I think, Veopreneur, Mark Scott. Actually, people will ask in that group if there's been contact or if people have worked with that company. And again, it's something you can talk to your accountability buddies or colleagues in the industry to see if they yeah, and I would add on, too your coaches.  21:35 - Lau Lapides (Host) So if you have a coach or a coaching team or have coach, your coaches really should know about this stuff. If they don't know about this stuff, they should be willing to reach out and find out about it. If they're not, that would be a red flag on the coach. Yeah, absolutely, because the coach should really be in the know. Even if you haven't worked with them for a while, they should be in the know.  22:02 I'll give you an example this student that I had in class not too long ago. She wrote to me and she said hey, I want to go FICOR and here are my reasons and I need help. How do I do it? Well, if I said I don't know, I have no idea what it is and I don't know, go figure it out. I would have a red flag about her looking at me saying that and saying well, let me just find out for you, let me figure it out, because I need to know myself. I actually know exactly how to do it, but my point is is that that would take me aback, like who am I working?  22:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) with who's my teacher?  22:28 - Lau Lapides (Host) You know what I mean, because this is a very huge issue right now in the union, so it's very relevant and current.  22:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, and that's another great aspect to a scammer, right, how do you know you're working with a legitimate coach and or demo producer? And I'm going to say, any coach worth their weight is going to offer a consult, a free consult so that you can kind of get a feel. And again, that's something where you're meeting with them on Zoom or you're meeting with them on the phone or you can kind of have a back and forth with that coach so that you can get an idea of their style. You're open to ask any questions and also, again, I think that word of mouth is really valid there I think a coach should have previous student references and or work and or testimonials on there and you can get a lot of knowledge from that. So don't just spend thousands of dollars before you do your own investigation and research and talk to a potential coach and or demo producer.  23:23 - Lau Lapides (Host) And be reasonable about weighing it out. If you're asking your coach who's been in your coach base out of New York, well, what do you know about Mary Jane's out in fiscal Wisconsin? It's not reasonable that they're going to know the answer to that. But what do you know about joining the union these days? They should really know some of those answers to resource you.  23:44 So, anything that's of a national or international. Now, everything's international but national base. They should be in the know, even on the most basic level, or at least be able to resource you to the places you can go.  23:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, they're not just voiceover, they should be business. They should also understand the business and the marketplace and the industry enough to be able to guide you. Yeah, right, right, right.  24:07 - Lau Lapides (Host) I always come back to your survival instinct. You have a gut instinct for a reason Like listen to your gut. What's the worst that happens? You lose a job, you miss out on a job, so what? Yeah, that's the worst that happens. You may have saved yourself from a lot of heartache and a lot of hell by jumping into it because you really wanted it or were desperate for it when you knew it was going against your gut instinct. So always go with your gut instinct.  24:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I get a lot of people who are like okay, so I did a job and I didn't get paid. I can tell you, I've been in this industry over 17 years. I have never not gotten paid, Never, never.  24:42 - Lau Lapides (Host) Wow, never not gotten paid.  24:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's lucky, wow, is it lucky or is it me vetting my clients Could be. I'm going to say yes, I vetted my clients. If I found somebody that I thought was a little bit, I don't know if I want to work with them. If I was hesitant, I chose not to work with them and I'm very fortunate. Again it comes down to I requested that money up front.  25:07 I'm going to say that I feel like that saved me in many, many ways is having that, just that simple statement on my quote that says payment in full is greatly appreciated and available via my PayPal account to annanganguzacom and basically that is it. I never have anybody really contest it and if they do contest it it's because they're a large company that I'm very familiar with and I'm able to get in contact with the people in purchasing who can give me a PO and who can give me the net terms of payment, which sometimes can be 90 days Now have you ever had a company sign that and say, yeah, we're going to give you whatever 50% upfront or 100% upfront and not come through and still do the job?  25:45 No, no, I've always gotten either paid upfront or I've gotten my payment. I've never, ever had that happen. Yes, I'm fortunate, but I also think it has a lot to do with me being savvy and not necessarily picking up clients that are questionable. Right, gotcha and I do have clients where I signed contracts. They went out of business you know what I mean After so many years but ultimately, because I had been working with them for so long, either transferred me to the new owners, right, and then I might've had issues with the new owners.  26:12 But again, I've never where I didn't get the job or I didn't get the offer. I'd say I worked with a company for a very long time and then my point of contact changed, right, that happens quite a bit when you work with clients over a period of many years, your point of contact changes and then maybe you don't have that job anymore because they've brought in somebody new and maybe they want somebody cheaper and it's time to change voices Either way. So that's happened to me, which I think has happened to anybody, but thankfully, I've always gotten paid and knock on wood.  26:42 I'm grateful. And again, just keep my eyes and ears peeled. Now, if you are working with an agent, right, that's what your agent does, right, your agent negotiates those contracts for you. Now, have you ever had at a point where one of your clients didn't come through and pay and then you weren't able to pay? The talent.  27:01 - Lau Lapides (Host) No, I've never witnessed that or seen that happen, not within our agency, but I've had it happen in my coaching business. I've had it happen under Lollapeda Studios a number of times through the years.  27:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Where you've had a student that didn't pay you.  27:13 - Lau Lapides (Host) Yeah, or whatever. Or someone came for a first time, they looked super legit, they took an hour this was in the days in person, right and then they just cut out, they just never paid for it, and then I learned okay, so I have to get it up front, that's okay.  27:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean for coaching services, learning lessons.  27:29 - Lau Lapides (Host) I call it learning money. I tried not to get angry and hold on to that because I said that's the nature of some people, so you have to just know your audience.  27:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I did have where, let's say offering services through VO Peeps, where I used to run events, and people will come to events and say I will pay you later, right, can I come? Is there a spot available? Can I come? And yes, being young in the business, sure you can come and then ghost and then not pay. That has happened not often, because after that I got very smart and it's gotten to the point where I host events that are non-refundable at this point.  28:06 - Lau Lapides (Host) Well, that's important actually because everyone would pull out. Everyone would pull out for some reason, even for sickness right.  28:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I try to be very like with coaching if somebody gets sick, I will be very understanding and lenient about that. But now with events, when I run events and I have to sell spots, even if somebody gets sick, I'm sorry. I have a no refund policy and that has developed over 15 years of doing events.  28:29 - Lau Lapides (Host) I do find, though, Annie, honestly, because I've been an event organizer for a long time, most, most, most people take no issue with that. Yeah, exactly, they know most most people take no issue with that. Yeah, exactly, they know. Hey, listen, I punked out, I didn't make it Well yeah, absolutely.  28:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's all right.  28:42 - Lau Lapides (Host) And they just forget about it. Very rarely do I have people fighting, because that would be like they would think that they're in the right.  28:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I have people that want credit.  28:49 - Lau Lapides (Host) They get sick and then they want credit and sometimes I'll do that Some big events do that, but I don't think it's a good policy because I think it gives people an out.  28:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, agreed, Guys, be educated, be smart and be savvy and try to avoid those being taken for granted and being scammed. Great episode, Law, Great episode.  29:09 - Lau Lapides (Host) Good stuff, great episode.  29:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All right, I'm going to give a great big shout-out to somebody I have been with for years and years and years and that is IPDTL. I love IPDTL. Still continue to actually do all of my coaching sessions via IPDTL. So many advantages to that. It's a great quality, fantastic audio quality. My students can record their sessions. It's amazing. I have playback. It's super easy. Guys, you can find out more at IPDTLcom. Connect and network like bosses Law. Thank you so much. It's been amazing. Bosses, have a great week.  29:41 My pleasure We'll see you next week. Bye, see you next week.  29:46 - Intro (Host) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Ann Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission.  30:06 - Speaker 4 (Host) Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL and corporate narration, and even just working with her on my e-learning reads has made me a better voice actor when it comes to the corporate narration work that I get in, and I can hear the difference from the first day I coached with her up until today when we had our session, and I'm really excited to see how much more I'm going to keep growing and keep outsmarting all the AI bots, because she'll give you tips on that as well of how not to sound like you're just reading or how not to sound like an AI voice but actually sound like a human.  30:51 I love that Anne cares about her students and their success, because she's such a good teacher and she's a teacher at heart, and so you know when you're gonna work with her, you're going to do your best and it might really push you sometimes, but when you can look back on your growth and see just how far you've come, you know all the tears, the blood, sweat and tears is gonna be worth it. So thank you, anne, for taking your time with me and helping me get past those moments of frustration to finally understand and grow as an actor. I really appreciate it.   

We've all been there—faced with the decision to work with a business whose practices don't quite sit right. It's a crossroads that can define not just your career, but your character. The BOSSES tackle this head-on, discussing what it really means when corporations say "I'm sorry" and whether change follows their apologies. They also peel back the curtain on the pricing battles both in voiceover work and in the consumer world, questioning why we shouldn't always accept the status quo and, instead, fight for what's fair. This episode isn't just about the voiceover industry—it's a broader look at how we, as professionals and consumers, navigate the moral maze of modern business. 00:01 - Intro (Host) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey, everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. Hey, hey, everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am back in the booth with the lovely, illustrious Lau Lapides.  00:31 - Lau Lapides (Host) Oh, hey Lau hey girl Nice to see you Love being back.  00:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I know I feel like it's been an age. I feel like we just haven't seen each other in a while, but yet we did just see each other at VO Atlanta and it was not enough time. The two of us were so insanely busy that I feel like I didn't get enough quality time with you or quality time with anybody oh goodness.  00:53 - Lau Lapides (Host) And that's really funny when you think about it, because when you go to a conference, especially those of us who are going in and we're speaking and we're facilitating, part of the reason why we go is not just to educate but also to meet people and talk and have conversations. And I'm telling you, between the sound, the noise factor, the lights, the running around, the coffee I don't know about you, but I'm taking many naps the coffee, I love it, I love it. The coffee, it's a lot, it's a lot on you at once in a very short amount of time.  01:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, but we did learn a lot, didn't we?  01:29 We did, we definitely did.  01:31 One of the panels that was brought up and I don't know if this discussion should be entirely about this that most of us are familiar with that in the very beginning of this voiceover industry emerged as a top player in the pay-to-play space who had some questionable business practices and ethics, and I think that that is a really wonderful topic to talk about your clients and business ethics and how you choose to work with your clients or not work with your clients depending on, let's say, their business practices or even your own.  02:07 Have you taken a look at your own business practices? Are they ethical? Where do you stand on that? And I think that here's the elephant in the room. So the CEO of Voicescom was present on a panel at VO Atlanta and the very first thing that Jay Michael asked him to do was to apologize to the community on behalf of his company on the way that he treated the community in terms of maybe double, triple dipping into the funds that voice talent pay to be on that platform, and I thought I'd ask what your thoughts are and what your knowledge is of Voicescom and their past business practices.  02:46 - Lau Lapides (Host) Right. Well, I think you know we're all in the know about that it's a large industry but it's a small industry. If you stay in this industry probably like many others, for your lifetime and you're in it, you really learn a lot and you know a lot and you know a lot of people. It's very in a facetious way. It's very incestuous in that it's a family-driven business where our friends are like our family and we treat our clients like our family and we really get to know one another quite closely. And one of the issues that we're talking about now, especially with Voicescom, is really just taking care of one another and being aware of best business practices that you want to have as your guiding light for your business. Right, and Voicescom really for a long time, has really gone down the path, the dark path, right.  03:33 The dark web or whatever they call that, a dark path, the deep path of nefarious business practices that have caught on very early and now I think most people know about it, unless they're just coming into the business. And you and I feel the same way. We're just not for it. We're not for working hard and working ethically and working with integrity and working for clients, but not doing it under fair practices.  04:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, you know, back in the day, voicescom, when they emerged actually, I believe the very first platform to emerge was well outside of freelancer and those types of platforms was Voice123. And I remember I was an early adopter of Voice123. And then Voicescom came along not too long after that and the owner of that company, the Cicerellis, david and Stephanie, I believe it's- yeah.  04:22 C Cicerelli, were well-known in the community and used to show up to VO Atlanta and the conferences, and they really made a stake in the pay-to-play and became a popular pay-to-play in the industry. And along the way, somewhere I can't even say exactly when it happened, but along the way there became like a fee that was known as the pay-to-plays developed. You would pay a fee to belong to it and so that would give you the opportunities to audition. And then there was this thing that they introduced called escrow, and escrow was if you wanted to make sure that you got paid, then Voicescom would hold that payment for you and then when the job was completed, they would then release that payment, and so as a fee for that holding right the escrow, they would receive a fee.  05:05 And so I remember at that time people were kind of like I think after a year or so of that, people started to question that Isn't that double dipping? It's like you're charging the talent twice, they've already paid to belong to the platform and now you're charging an escrow fee on top of that in order to hold the money. But it was a guarantee that you would get paid. So consider them like a bank right. So first of all, let me ask you your opinion of that. Do you think that that is a fair and ethical practice for a business? Oh, okay. And do you think that is considered double?  05:36 - Lau Lapides (Host) dipping. I do, I do, I absolutely do. You know it's funny. This was me in my early naive mind. I always thought of those platforms as online agencies in a certain way, because what they're doing is they're matchmaking. They're presenting clients to you that you're not going to get on your own, most likely You're not going to meet on your own, and they're presenting it in a way where they do not want you to go private with those clients. In other words, they don't want you to acquire those clients offline. They want you to stay within the platform and use them as the agents. So I'll call them an agency. They don't call themselves an agency, but that's the same premise, right? But a legitimate agency does not charge you anything to be with them. They're going to take their commission off your booking. So it's a totally different business model and therefore they're not an agency.  06:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So interesting. So I'm going to play devil's advocate here and I'm going to say not coming from the agency world, right, but coming from the business world, right, the escrow was an option. At that point, you did not have to decide to put money in escrow. But if you decided to put your faith in them and use the escrow model, they would then take a fee on top of that. So let's say it wasn't an agency, let's say it was a bank fee, right? Would you agree?  06:53 Then, if you thought of it that way and you weren't thinking of them as an agency, in order for you to belong to the platform, they provided you, maybe not matchmaking, but they provided opportunities for you. I mean, they were matchmaking through the algorithm, so to speak, but as a business, as strictly as a business, not thinking of it as an agency. As a business, they were providing you with opportunities. So you paid for that on a yearly basis or whatever, a monthly basis. And then if you wanted them to guarantee the money and hold on to the money because if the client didn't pay them, well, they still had to pay you then you would pay a fee no-transcript.  08:01 - Lau Lapides (Host) I don't want that service. I'm willing to take the incurred risk.  08:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And they allowed that Right. They allowed that in the beginning. I do remember that.  08:07 - Lau Lapides (Host) That is okay. I'll go down that road with them because I'm paying for a service, I'm paying for a platform service and those are valued leads. I get that, it's legitimate, it's valued leads, I'm getting bookings, perfect. But still the control is in my hands when they took that away, when they take that option away, then the nature of it changes in the mind of the consumer. So to me it's not an easy yes or no. It's more like how much control do I have when I'm working with that partner? Sure, sure. What do you think, annie?  08:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, I think, because I remember seeing it evolve right and it evolved slowly over time. So I think in a lot of instances they thought that the evolution of those policies and practices would not be noticed by the community. Now, I believe once they decided to not allow people to take customers off the platform, right, that became more of how were they going to enforce it right?  09:01 So, in order to, enforce it, escrow became like non-negotiable. It was a thing that they did, and so they took control of that. Now, a few years down the road, right then, it turned out to be managed projects. Now, on top of that, right as a service, they would manage the entire project, in case it was a larger project and you needed to cast, let's say, multiple roles or it ended up being a long-term project.  09:27 They would manage the project and then there was a fee on top of that. It was no straightforward fee. At this point it was okay. It was a separate negotiation between Voicescom and the client for a particular amount of money which they did not then disclose to the member or the voice talent that got the job right. Then they became the company that managed the job and paid the voice talent and paid their own employees to manage that job, which there is a certain overhead in managing a job like that. I've been a project manager yeah, they're casting.  10:01 - Lau Lapides (Host) They're casting, they're doing project management. They're taking care of the money. They're doing reach out for the leads. Exactly, they're getting the leads in right.  10:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So there's an additional fee. So now to some people in the industry not even thinking about that, it's triple dipping and your thoughts on that.  10:15 - Lau Lapides (Host) I agree.  10:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, yes, at that point, because there's no control left for the voice. Talent, right, yes, correct, I'm on that side At this point. When you don't offer the talent an option to opt out of escrow, now, theoretically you don't have to accept a managed job, right, you do?  10:31 - Lau Lapides (Host) not have to accept a managed job.  10:32 - Intro (Host) So, see how they played the edge.  10:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They played the edge of, I would say, good business ethics and good business practices, but not unlike a lot of big companies out there who maybe you're not so privy. It's just because they're managing income that you are generating. Think about it right they took your choices away. That's what they did. Well, they really didn't take your choice away on a managed job. They did not.  11:00 - Lau Lapides (Host) Okay, but let me ask you this question I don't know how many tiers they have. I have a client that recently showed me something like six or seven tiers or eight tiers of options of different levels. Well, why aren't you doing that? On the other end, just give us the option of the tiers of involvement that we want to have you as a partner. So if I'm early, I don't know what I'm doing. I need all the help in the world. I might go for a higher tier because I'm going to want you to manage everything. I'm going to want you to bank the money. I'm going to want you to take care of me and hold my hand. But if I'm into it five or ten years, I don't need that because I know the practice, I understand how to take care of myself and take the calculated risk. But the option could easily be there. They're offering all these tiers for the membership itself.  11:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I think, when it comes down to it again, I'm playing devil's advocate, right? I don't want people to say, oh my God, shelovesvoicescom advocate, right? I don't want people to say, oh my God, she loves Voicescom. But honestly, from a business standpoint, right, I do believe if you've not given the talent an opportunity to opt out of things, then you are triple dipping. However, they kept it right on the edge there where at one point and I'm not exactly sure, forgive me for not knowing this I'm not exactly sure about the escrow anymore. I don't know if that's an option or not anymore, if it's just it grow anymore.  12:15 - Lau Lapides (Host) I don't know if that's an option or not anymore, if it's just it's now like standard that they will pay you. I don't know if that was that ever an option, oh it was.  12:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It absolutely was an option.  12:20 - Lau Lapides (Host) That was a long time ago. It was a long time ago, that was early.  12:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Because I remember joining Voice123 back in 2004,. Maybe even earlier than that, I can't remember In the early 2000s, but it was an option. You did not have to choose escrow, and so I believe that if that's not an option anymore, they're definitely double dipping. And I think with the managed yeah, I mean absolutely with the managed. So there are people who say they should give up the yearly fee right for providing opportunities, or the membership fee, or they should give up the escrow or they should give up the managed fee.  12:56 - Intro (Host) Right Any one of those, and so.  12:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I do not know exactly what the new CEO at Voicescom said in the panel, because I had to go teach my own ex-session at the time, but he did indeed apologize on behalf of the company. So here's my question, laha what do you feel about an apology made? And of course, he was not CEO of the company back then? Here's my question, laha what do you feel about an apology made? And, of course, he was not CEO of the company back then? He had no prior knowledge of what was happening. He doesn't even come from a voiceover background. What is your thought about the apology?  13:24 - Lau Lapides (Host) Well, I treat it the same as any business and certainly as politics as well. I think he's a front man, I think he's probably a diplomat in certain ways, as a leader and someone who knows it is the right and ethical thing to do and what is expected of a community that he does not want to lose the partnership with. So is it honest? I don't know. Is it meant to be followed through? Who knows? And is there going to be a policy change? We will only know once we see it. It could be completely empty. It could be completely to satisfy the emotional feelings of talent which, quite frankly, at the end of the day doesn't mean very much if there's no policy change. So I say, wait and see. Does anything change after that? I think it was a good first move on his part.  14:13 It was a smart chess move. It was no skin off his nose. He probably doesn't even know what voiceover does for the most part.  14:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And everybody's like, well, he took a beating. And I'm like, well, I mean gosh. Remember Rolf a few years back from Voice 123. Every time he came on stage he took a beating. And I remember seeing Rolf this year and saying well, rolf, at least you won't get the brunt of it this year. And he laughed.  14:36 - Lau Lapides (Host) Exactly, and you know what, annie, I have to say. He said that's what a CEO does. Let me tell you, these Wall Street-type cats could care less. In fact, they plan those for their Saturday morning. They have a ball at Target practice. No one knows, no one understands, understands like what a boardroom is like unless they lived in a boardroom or lived in corporate America or lived in executive C fights. Like no one gets that. I remember my husband, who's now a CFO controller type. He said boy, when I was coming up the reins and I was already a controller at that I was dealing with ownership of a company and they would literally get up and throw a vase of flowers at me and it would hit the wall and crash. Literally, they would throw things at each other.  15:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I really think— it's dog-eat-dog kind of. You know what I mean. Yeah, I think that.  15:24 - Lau Lapides (Host) that's like we want to feel as talented, satisfied that we got some comeuppance in the deal.  15:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, I'm sorry oh my God, I just rolled my eyes.  15:35 I mean, guys, I love the voiceover community Do not get me wrong but sometimes the drama, okay, I'm just saying we've got to remember guys, we are dealing with businesses, when we deal with these platforms and when we deal with our clients, they are businesses and in reality, in our own little bubble, we may think you know what I mean that, oh my God, yes, and I want. We may think you know what I mean that, oh my god, yes, and I want to say, you know, I'd love for everybody to be human and say, yes, they need to be good people and good humans and ethical. But gosh, it's not that way in a lot of places it's not that way, you have to open your eyes and be savvy and be smart.  16:08 yes, when you are dealing with businesses, that now for me and I would say a lot you too, I mean, do I want to deal with a business that I feel has questionable ethics and practices? No, I don't. I am fortunate that in my business I'm not dependent on that money, so I can choose who I work with, and I think that's the really wonderful thing about us in our industry that you can choose who you work with. Right and for me, that's always been where I felt like I won the corporate game If I was working for a particular company. And I work with a lot of students who they work in the corporate world and at some point they all want to get out of it because they don't feel appreciated or loved or they do a lot and they're working for someone else, and now that we have the option to work for ourselves first of all, I think we're the hardest CEOs, but also we have choices as to who our clients are.  17:03 So we can absolutely choose not to work with somebody who we feel that their business practices are questionable. That gives you more time to look for people who are right and get that business to somebody else.  17:14 - Lau Lapides (Host) Exactly. And to piggyback right onto that, I was talking to a client this week who is also in my agency as well and who said, listen, I have a friend and he's on Fiverr and he came to me and we're actually accountability buddies and I told him everything I thought about this and he said but Lala, I don't know, Did I do the right thing? What do you think about that? What do you think about that? What do you think about what?  17:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) he's doing To be a friend. Is somebody on Fiverr? Well, no what he's saying is.  17:38 - Lau Lapides (Host) He came to this person and he said what do you think of me being on Fiverr? I know that it has some dark imagery in the business and people are dissuaded away. What do you think? So I said and I had to be a diplomat as well, because I'm not here to wreck businesses and give businesses a bad reputation but here's what I said and I honestly believe this. I said listen, whether your friend goes on Fiverr or not, or a million other platforms or not, you're the accountability buddy, which is terrific. Keep them checks and balance and remember this. That exactly what you're saying, annie.  18:16 Your business is your business, it's yours, it belongs to you. It's private to some degree. It puts food on your table, it makes you happy and sleep at night. You're an artist, you're a business person, but you're an artist and I don't want to sit in judgment and jury of other artists. I don't want to censor their moves. I say you do what works for your business.  18:38 Now, if you want to go into areas that are illegal, criminal, whatever, I'm not going to go there. That's just not where I'm going to go. It's not what I do and what I'm about or what my personhood or brand is about. But I still. I don't want to judge anyone, I don't want to be in judgment of anyone, because I feel like they're the ones, at the end of the day, who have to get up in the morning and go through a whole day supporting their business, and I don't know what their lives are like. Right, they might be poor, they might have no money in the bank. They might say law, I can't even afford a simple ad in like you know whatever.  19:15 And I said, well, listen, you do what works for you and that's going to bring you to the next thing. I mean, that's just the way I roll. You know what I mean? It's the same discussion we've had about FICOR, about financial core. We get a lot of people. I just got an email this morning from someone who is in my class who said I went SAG and law. I need your help now. I need your help. I want to go FICOR. I'm a little conflicted. I don't know what to do, how to do it. I know the union doesn't want to talk to me about it, of course, right. And I say listen, you know there's pros and cons to every choice you make, but as a coach because I'm still a coach. I'm going to talk to you and educate you about what your choices are Sure absolutely.  19:56 And then you go and make your choices and I'll support you in the choices you make. It doesn't mean I agree with them.  20:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It means I support you Sure, absolutely, absolutely.  20:04 - Lau Lapides (Host) Right, and isn't that at the end of the day?  20:06 Annie where we want to go is like we're not always going to agree with. This has been a big ethical. For a week I had another from my roster. He emailed me about an AI company that reached out to him and wanted to work with him. He said number one is this legitimate? Is it a scam? And number two I don't like it. I don't like their rates, I don't like the usage. I don't like it. I don't like their rates, I don't like the usage. And I said, well, go with your gut. Yeah, absolutely Go with what you feel, Otherwise you won't be happy. Absolutely, Absolutely.  20:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right and I'm going to say that I do believe that when a company is not acting in an ethical manner, I do believe it's important that people speak up and speak their mind about it, because that is the only way that change will become enforced, or change can happen, if there are enough voices that are raised up about it. So I do believe organizations like NAVA, even the Facebook groups and again, like I said, I say there's so much drama, but I mean we are creatives, I mean there is drama in our world, but I also want bosses out there to, yes, embrace your creative and embrace your drama, but also embrace the business aspect of things and try to understand that it's not an affront against you personally.  21:20 I mean Voicescom did they insult you personally by charging a fee?  21:26 I mean it can infuriate you absolutely, but it wasn't a personal attack.  21:30 However, it is up to you to educate yourself on the practices of any given business and then decide whether that is something you want to support or not.  21:38 And if you feel that you're being taken advantage of, absolutely, I say raise your voice. But I don't say raise your voice and stomp off like a spoiled little child. That's not getting your way, but raise your voice in an educated and smart way that can help to promote change, I would say, or promote awareness in the industry, which is what VL Boss I set out to do was to provide a resource for the community so that we could talk about things like this and it could be open and we could discuss and I will be the first to say there's many of you who know the VL Boss podcast from the very beginning and there was a question, there was a question of certain people that I had on my podcast whether they were ethical. Now, I was not educated at the time and that could be something that people may or may not believe is true. However, at the time, I was not educated about business practices no-transcript.  22:57 - Lau Lapides (Host) You're buying items, retail items from big box stores. Right? Let's say you're going to Target, walmart or a Macy's or Nordstrom's, whatever, and you walk in. I'm going to guarantee you you are paying 50% to 100% over retail in terms of the profit margins that they are charging you, but somehow, somehow, many of us go.  23:19 Well, you know, you know. And are you going to go to the manager and you're going to complain about that? The manager will say hey, with all due respect, ma'am, I don't make decisions. You got to go up. Are you going to spend all day? I'm asking a real question to the audience Are you going to spend all day, every day, fighting that good fight, even though you're right, you're right fighting that good fight to get to corporate, to get to the CEO, to make sure the prices come down, to make sure they're affordable? Probably not.  23:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that you brought that up. Law, probably. But one more thing.  23:53 - Lau Lapides (Host) I want to say and I'm not talking about boycotting, that's up to you. I'm not suggesting that in any way. I'm just saying we make ethical decisions every day of our lives, all day long. Where am I going to go to the gas station? Am I going to pay that for gasoline? Am I going to go to the gas station? Am I going to pay that for gasoline? Am I going to whatever? So everything you could be fighting, I think there is a level of toleration we have to find in our lives to stay happy and healthy, knowing we're being taken for a ride.  24:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely. I love that you made that comparison. That is so, so important, because I think we're in such a bubble and we think that everything's in front to us personally.  24:32 And it's not. It is business business in this country, I mean. So we ourselves are free to set our prices, right, we are free to set our prices. And so what if the tables were turned and somebody said, well, that's not ethical, I mean, in a very weird sense, right? If you think about AI and you think about synthetic voices and people's value of, okay, what is a voice worth?  24:58 Now, my human voice and my acting and my personal brand is worth a lot. That's where I will make that bold statement to say this is what I charge, this is what I'm worth, will make that bold statement to say this is what I charge, this is what I'm worth. However, there will be people who need a voice that may not see the value right for their project, for a human voice. They don't have a need for it, right, and they make that choice not to work with us. And so, again, we are in the free societies where we can make our price, in the free societies where we can make our price, and the rebellion against us, right, or the speaking up against us is hey, we don't have that budget or we don't feel the value is there to pay that amount of money for a voice. I mean, I hate to sound so cold, but that's just the reality of business. That's the reality of it.  25:48 - Lau Lapides (Host) When you deal with people and you deal with budgets, you're going to run up against the same thing. I had a client of mine in my roster that said law, I need your thought because I have a long, long, long time client and she's just not going to pay me what I'm asking. She's not going to pay me what I'm worth. She's not going to. What should I do? Should I walk away from it at this point, or should I stay with it, or whatever? We talked that through. But the point is, that's your world, that's our world, that's business.  26:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's what we do every day.  26:15 - Lau Lapides (Host) That's not going to go away. I mean, whether you call that unethical or not, I'm not sure, but thousands of years ago I'm sure, we were being overpriced for fish and beef and meat on the open market. You had to haggle, you had to negotiate, you had to figure out what you're willing to pay for that item, and there's also supply and demand. So when you have a tremendous supply, tremendous supply, you don't always have the demand to meet that, and so therein lies the ethics, exactly exactly.  26:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And supply and demand has a lot to do with paying me what I'm worth. I mean honestly like if there is more demand for our voices.  26:55 - Lau Lapides (Host) We can afford to pay Go higher, go higher.  26:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, if there is less demand, then you know what We've got to kind of compete in the marketplace.  27:04 - Lau Lapides (Host) Right, and let me qualify it by saying we're in no way suggesting for the listeners that you need to sell out or you need to do things you don't want to do or you're not comfortable doing. We're saying you live in a world, you live in a world and no one said that world is going to be fair.  27:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh yeah.  27:20 - Lau Lapides (Host) So fair practices, best practices, are ones that you set and your clients set, and you have what they call a meeting of the minds. And if you don't and you want to fight for it and it's worth fighting for, then fight for it. But just know you got to pick your battles wisely.  27:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, because you could be fighting all day long, every day, yeah, and it can be exhausting. And in the meantime, if you're spending all of your time fighting those battles, then you're not making money in your business, right? So and again. I always bring it back to this right. I find value in this. For me, my Chanel lipstick is worth the money that I pay, right, and I always like to bring it back to my Chanel lipstick.  28:00 But in reality now I found that the quality of the Chanel lipstick has gone a little bit downhill, and so now I'm on the hunt for something new, right, that can give me the quality that I am willing to pay the price for. So, bosses, keep in mind, you will have clients out there that will go out there and hunt for that voice, right, that is the quality that they desire for their project. So you can be that voice and you can, at that point, charge, right. You can charge, as we were mentioning before. It is your option, it is your option and so, ethically, I think it is up to you guys out there to educate yourself right on business practices and then take a deep look at yourself, take a deep look at what it's costing you in your business Not necessarily, like, as Law was saying before, fighting every single day and taking up a lot of your time and energy in fighting that so that you have no time to have a business.  28:57 - Lau Lapides (Host) Yes, you want to choose your battles wisely and I always like to say I don't mind losing some battles and you will throughout your life but I want to win the war.  29:06 - Intro (Host) And what that means is I want to win my business.  29:09 - Lau Lapides (Host) I want to win overall my business practice and my goals. But that doesn't mean every day is going to be fair and every day is going to come out the way I want it to come out. And you know it's like I love Dunkin' Donuts and when I go through, if I get a donut, that donut is two or three bucks, is half the size now, and you'll say but Law, with all due respect, you shouldn't be eating donuts. Well, that's beside the point. The point is I have a choice. I'm not talking about health, I'm just talking for fun. Now I don't have to buy that donut.  29:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You don't have to pay the money for that donut, but am I going to?  29:41 - Lau Lapides (Host) go fight the CEO over the size of it and the cost of it? Probably not, because it's not a battle that I really want to take up Wise words Law.  29:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wow, what a great discussion. I really really enjoyed it so good.  29:52 - Intro (Host) Yeah, bosses.  29:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So remember, educate yourself and look deep within and pick your battles. So, all right, I'd like to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses, like Law and myself. Find out more at IPDdtlcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye, see you next week, bye.  30:15 - Intro (Host) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss dot com and receive exclusive content, industry-rev, revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.  30:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, we are so excited to announce our audition demolition, our third audition demolition coming up September 20th. That is our live event F***.  31:00 - Lau Lapides (Host) Oh no, f***, oh no, you got to submit this for bloopers.  31:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah For OVC, yeah right, all right, stop Record.   

Wondering how to convert your cluttered space into a voiceover success story? Let Anne Ganguzza and the ever-resourceful Tom Dheere, be your personal guides in the transformative journey of setting up a home studio that screams professionalism but whispers in costs. Starting with the bare bones of our make-do booths fashioned from closets and basements, we'll share how to shield your sound from the noisy world outside, using everyday materials to master the art of sound absorption. Our candid conversation is a treasure trove of relatable anecdotes and practical wisdom, perfect for any voice actor eager to refine their recording environment and captivate their audience with crystal-clear audio. 00:01 - Intro (Host) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO BOSS. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the V-O Boss podcast in the Real Bosses series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am so excited to be back again with Real Boss guest co-host Tom Dheere. Hey, tom.  00:33 - Tom Dheere (Host) Hey Anne, I'm feeling very bossy today, but not in a mean to tell people what to do today. I'm just feeling bossy, but in a good way.  00:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You got good boss colors on.  00:40 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yeah, and I got some good boss vibes going today too. Yeah, and you sound good, Tom. I do sound good today. It's funny, so do you, as always Well thank you.  00:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm going to be speaking next week at a conference to podcasters who are interested in becoming voice of artists. Part of my conversation is going to include the equipment they need, the skills they need and, of course, what's so important to us as voice actors our environment, our studios.  01:08 And you know it's so funny because we are on opposite coasts and I feel like we also have opposite type studios, but yet they both work amazingly well for our businesses. So I wanted to talk to you about your studio and our differences so that this could be a good reference for those bosses. Just starting out that you don't necessarily need a $20,000 recording studio, because when I first started I certainly didn't have one, and I know that Tom has the same story. As a matter of fact, when I first started, I was in my basement in New Jersey, because basements are a good place where you don't have to deal with, let's say, external noises as much because you're half underground.  01:50 It was a closet for me that I started off with, and, tom, I mean talk to me about when you first started. What was your first studio like?  01:58 - Tom Dheere (Host) Okay, my first studio was also in New Jersey, parcipany, new Jersey. I'm sorry, where were you in New Jersey?  02:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I don't remember Northern Jersey. I was in North Haldon, oh, right, by Wayne. Okay, I know exactly where that is.  02:10 - Tom Dheere (Host) I was in the 20, 25 minute drive west of North Haldon, so I lived in a garden apartment. For those of you who don't know New Jersey, garden apartments are these sets of apartment buildings.  02:21 They're almost always red brick, they could be white or other colors, and there's usually there's anywhere from like three to 50 of them. And I lived on a second floor and my first home recording studio was the front closet which was over the steps that would lean to the door that would let you go outside. So what I did was I went to Home Depot and I got carpet remnants on the cheap. I had a quilt that I think my mother-in-laws aunt made. It's a lovely quilt but like oh, this is a good use for it, I wove it into, you know, like the bar that you'd hang your coats on. Sure.  02:56 I would weave it through there.  02:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So it's like a little tent.  02:59 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yeah, actually it was even better than a tent, because the shelf that was above the bar rested on wooden blocks in this apartment so you could lift it up. So I actually threaded it through, threaded it back and folded it under so it completely encapsulated the shelf that was above the bar and that was that. So the quilt was around there. The carpet remnants from Home Depot were on the ground and in front of me and behind me and I made a point to, since the closet was a square box instead of having be an angle, I wouldn't push the corner of the carpet remnant all the way into it, so it would be curved.  03:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So all of the corners, so it would be like square, sharp corners Right.  03:36 - Tom Dheere (Host) So I would put it in with penny nails. And then I had, you know, those football blankets, the kind that you roll up to take a football game. I had one of those and I nailed that into the closet door and that was it. And then I had a little snack tray with a desktop mic stand and my mic was there. And then I got a monitor which I drilled into the well, no, that back then I didn't drill it into the wall, it was on a stand which was on the snack tray. And then I got a splitter, so the monitor that I would sit at at my desk would show the same exact stuff that it would show inside the booth. And then I would bring my air mouse into the booth and sit down and I would just, and then it's.  04:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, you were actually advanced because you had a monitor in your booth and you had an air mouse.  04:20 So, for me. I'm gonna tell you, my first experience was when I moved from one place in New Jersey to the next and I had my second studio in the basement. Was really cool, because you don't know what you don't know. And so for those bosses just starting out and I've done multiple audio episodes, just a real quick recap you need to really have a good environment before, I think, you even make a decision on your microphone and within that environment you have to make sure that you're not having any kind of echo or noise. So there's internal noise of your studio and there's external noise that might be trying to come into the studio and you certainly don't want any of the noise that you're making, right as you're voicing, to be echoing off of walls or hard surfaces. So it's important to kind of have yourself surrounded with some sort of material that can absorb that sound rather than have it be reflected back into the microphone. So when Tom talks about having his blankets and his carpet remnants up above him, to the left, to the right, keep in mind you wanna have some form of absorbing material that's in front of you, to the left, to the right, behind and above you and that will help curb any type of reflective sounds that might come back into the microphone. And then, of course, there's always sounds that come in from outside of the studio that we can't always control. I mean, studios have a recording sign for a reason. So even in a real studio, right where this is what they do for a living, you can't run down the hall screaming at the top of your lungs while people are recording, because not everything is completely soundproof.  05:53 However, getting yourself in an environment where you're not gonna get that much reflective sound and sound that might come in is best, and so one thing that that proves, tom, is that for both of us, when we started, we didn't really have to invest a lot of money into our studios to get good quality sound.  06:12 You just have to be a little bit educated about where you're gonna place those materials, and I think it takes a lot of experimentation. I do know when I first started, I didn't know what kind of sound I was supposed to have, and so really helpful to me was getting an engineer on the line and kind of assessing my sound and assessing my studio. However, in the beginning I didn't know anybody, and so I basically it was trial and error, trial and error, and sometimes you can place a blanket and it doesn't do any good. And sometimes you can put another blanket and it still doesn't do any good, and at that point it's helpful to maybe have somebody come and assess your studio sound. And with that I've got multiple places that I recommend. I know, george, the Tech is one of the best.  06:57 That's the first one came to my mind and I think both of us recommend him and bosses will put that link in the show notes for you. But it really can help to have a trained ear, assess what your studio sounds like but also know that you don't have to spend thousands and thousands of dollars. Now I remember back when I moved right from New Jersey to California. Then I had a town home and I was up on the second floor and then I had an office. Well, I had a second bedroom which was right outside of the kitchen and I had a closet and I said, oh great, I've got a closet, I'll make a studio out of that.  07:31 Well, that closet had no clothing in it, right? And that became a whole different set of circumstances where I thought, oh, it'll be easy, I'll just hang carpet, or I've got some old carpet, I'll hang some blankets. Well, it was actually more difficult to create a good sound with an empty closet than it was to actually build. My father actually built me a structure, so it was a little four by four by eight foot room in a room which actually works better than my closet which had nothing in it, like no clothes. So I feel like a clothing closet with clothes in it is really something that can help and can be better in a lot of cases than a clean closet.  08:10 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, I think I don't remember who was it said it, but sound functions like water and you have to understand where the sound flows and it always has to go somewhere. It's gonna go down, it's gonna go towards you or behind you, it's gonna get bounced around and moved around. So, under a standing, how and where the sound goes will help you figure it out Whether that involves getting bass traps or whether you gotta get Aurelix.  08:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now people are going what? Or some people buy pool noodles. What are bass traps?  08:39 - Tom Dheere (Host) Aurelix is a form of acoustic foam. I don't even know if I can properly define bass traps are. They're usually in the corners of the room, corners of the room, padding the corners there.  08:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think what you're trying to do is not have any. The other thing, if you can, because of reflection, right, Sound bouncing If you have walls that are perpendicular to one another or parallel.  08:59 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, you don't want angles, you want curves.  09:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Curves or angles, or if you do and I'm gonna get to our studios in just a moment if you do, you wanna make sure that you've got adequate coverage for sound absorption in there.  09:11 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, but at the same time you don't want a dead space either. Too much acoustical treatment can be a bad thing, because your space has to have some kind of texture too. Not like a signature texture that is like oh, I could tell I listened to that commercial. I know Ann did it in her booth. It's not like that, but just something that doesn't sound like you're talking in a safe. You know what I mean.  09:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, absolutely so. Ultimately, tom, it wasn't until I moved and this is after 14 years of actually being a full time doing voiceover and making money and so I had to have a booth that created good audio that people didn't reject. And, trust me, I did have a time when people rejected my audio, and that was when I didn't have an ear for what I needed to know, and that was very distressing.  09:53 By the way, all I can say is that once you figure out how to get your sound where it needs to be, it is a big load off your shoulders. But once I decided to move, I actually was able to kind of plan and really think because, okay, I'm 13, 14 years into my full time business, I wanna actually have a space that is created just for recording. And so I was fortunate and I researched, I researched a lot of different things. I thought, well, I can't bring the booth. My father had constructed a booth for me at my town home in Irvine and I couldn't really deconstruct it and reconstruct it again to have the same properties and everybody. I love that booth, by the way, and it was really wonderful and I had had that assessed and blessed by George the Tech, by the way, at the time. But now that I had an opportunity to actually have some time to sit down and think about it, I decided and I looked into researching, I looked into buying a Studio Bricks and it was gonna be really expensive at the time and at the time they were shipping it from Spain, I believe. There was no timeframe as to when I would get it and I thought, oh God, I can't move to a new home and not have a place to record, and so I said, well, let me look into something different. I spoke to George the Tech, who said you know, you might consider having this built for you a custom booth built for you and I started looking into that and fortunately I was able to find someone and, of course, everybody that's ever followed me or I definitely have a podcast on this with Tim Tippetts who designed and built my booth a custom built booth for me and I'm going to tell you that it was a luxury, but it was also something that it was great, because everything was custom tailored just for me and I'm sitting in it now. So if you're watching this podcast on YouTube, you can see my studio.  11:36 I've got sound panels in here. I actually have something that's not quite 90 degrees to one another, but you wouldn't know it by looking at it. It's just very slightly angled, but I do have ceiling acoustic tiles. I have acoustic tiles on my left, to my right, behind me, and I've got a double door, and so that cost me some dollars. I'm gonna say my first studios were a few hundred. Once I upgraded the studio that my father built for me, I would say that cost me about $1,000 with all the treatment and improvements to that, and this one was in the thousands of dollars.  12:09 But it's kind of set it and forget it and done, and so, comparatively, I live in a very quiet area to you, tom, and we'll make that comparison Cause, right, I'm West Coast. I live in a home, I'm in a studio that is dedicated and built custom for me, with double walls, green glue, acoustic panels. I live in it over 55 retirement community, on a cul-de-sac. There's not people racing around here. Well, if there are, that's some other issue. And so I have all the blessings of being able to sit in here and very rarely have to stop recording because there's something noisy happening outside. But, tom, tell me about yours because, again, mine cost thousands of dollars and I'm not saying it was super expensive, because I think for a custom built booth I got a really great deal. But, tom, talk about your studio because, again, you have an amazing studio that you've been working out of for years and just producing broadcast quality like beautiful stuff, one after the other.  13:05 - Tom Dheere (Host) Well, it's funny because I lived in that apartment in New Jersey for 12 years, so I was recording from that space for 12 years and it was regularly a pain in the butt because there was landscaping going on, there was a lot of cars driving by, there was Snow shoveling, there was kids going to school, coming home from school because the high school was right across the street, so there were a lot of problems with that one. Now I live in Midtown Manhattan. For those of you who don't know, there are certain cross streets in New York City 9th Street, 14th Street, 23rd Street, 34th Street and then higher. I live on 34th Street, which means it's one of the two-way streets. Also the Lincoln Tunnel entrances just stones throw away. So I am literally living in the second floor of an apartment building over one of the most heavily trafficked Streets in Manhattan, if not the country.  14:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wow, not the world.  14:02 - Tom Dheere (Host) Wow. So what's crazy is that when I moved in here about five and a half years ago, there was a front closet, just like I had in New Jersey, and I'm like, well, let's not try to reinvent the wheel, let's just do what I did there and do it here and see what happens. It turns out that it's even better. The sound is even better than the one in New Jersey, and here's why is that. I'm sitting here at my desk and the front door to my apartment is like literally right here. I can't quite touch it, but it's pretty close and then there's a closet front closets right here, so I sit in it. When I'm sitting, my back is to the hallway and behind me this wall separating the hallway from the apartment is concrete, so that's yeah, concrete is always good.  14:45 And I using my Sennheiser 416, which is facing the concrete now.  14:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Why is that important that it's a 416?  14:53 - Tom Dheere (Host) the 416 is great because it has a very, very tight field. It doesn't pick up a lot outside of here, which is why, if you get a Sennheiser 416, your angle to the microphone makes a very, very big difference. So you need to find that sweet spot where you're sitting, how it's angled up like this and where it is like this, and where you are seated In relation to it to kind of get into that very tight Right and that's what makes that an ideal microphone for, let's say, a less than ideal Space right and it's also one of the reasons why I use it for travel as well, because of the pickup pattern, is very Concentrated and you don't have to worry so much about.  15:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Like I also have a TLM 103, which is a beautiful microphone. However, it picks up when you breathe because the pickup pattern is much broader than a 416. So yes, I think in terms of studio spaces, if you have less than idea, 416 or a shotgun type of mic that has a smaller pickup is much more ideal for that right.  15:51 - Tom Dheere (Host) The other thing is that the windows this is a 60-something year old apartment building here in New York City, but the windows are very new. They're very, very tightly sealed.  16:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Are they double-pained?  16:03 - Tom Dheere (Host) They are double-pained.  16:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think most apartment buildings that are in in cities are double-pained anyways, right, A lot of them are double-pained yeah and I used the same exact carpet remnants and and Bessie's quilt.  16:14 - Tom Dheere (Host) From there I said everything I love it.  16:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You got Aunt Bessie with you, see I ban out Bessie's quilt. She's with us, ann always she supports it.  16:22 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yes, and the monitor. Actually my wife, who's actually more mechanically inclined than I, and she actually drilled the monitor into the wall, so we set up all the acoustical treatment. She drilled it right in there and then it's still. It's a new set of monitors since the ones I had in New Jersey, but they're also networked the same way, with a splitter I bring the earmouse into the booth and so I just scroll, scroll, scroll. So I haven't printed a script in years, in years. And the quality it's even better than it was in New Jersey and I attribute it to a more solid floor and the concrete wall and better treated windows, so I actually didn't spend anything on the new booth actually.  16:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right. And the other thing, too, is you probably have to be concerned A lot of times, like an inside wall or a wall that has concrete on the other side of, or a wall that isn't near plumbing is very helpful, and so if you're too close to a window, sometimes you don't have the protection I mean because that's yet another medium that can allow sound in or out or be reflective. I, literally right outside of this door, probably five feet away, is my front windows, and so I've got double windows there. But because I've got double doors here, if the waste removal trucks come right, actually I don't hear it through this, which is really fantastic, but if I've wanted the doors open, or if I have both these doors open, or if I'm sitting outside, yes, obviously I won't be able to record.  17:42 - Tom Dheere (Host) I've had jackhammers outside.  17:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wow, that's fantastic.  17:46 - Tom Dheere (Host) The only thing that really really gets through is if my upstairs neighbor is vacuuming. That's the only thing that makes it impossible to record.  17:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So you're talking about the closet, then your actual studio is the closet behind you.  17:57 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right now that I'm seeing right, there's a front closet right here and then these other doors actually leading to the kitchen.  18:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And how big is that closet?  18:03 - Tom Dheere (Host) Three, by three maybe.  18:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Okay, and do you have anything else in it besides your recording equipment and or absorption material?  18:10 - Tom Dheere (Host) Not really. I mean, there's two shelves above it which we use for storage of various things. This time of year I've got two winter coats in there, but the rest of the year they're not in there.  18:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So actually, the two winter coats actually make it even a little more insulated, absolutely Especially if they're puffer jackets, right, I mean you can-.  18:26 - Tom Dheere (Host) One's puffy and then one's like a really nice one, like when we go out out. Actually, the only thing I did buy was the cable. I needed to make sure that the cable can run. So I'm sitting here and it runs and it runs across the floor right all the door and then I've got a rug that covers that and just snakes into the booth. I think that was the only additional investment and I live it by B&H, so it was like 20 bucks. I just went across the street, got it. Whatever, this is a 15-20 foot cable. I think that was the only additional expense to moving here from the old department and that was it. I also want to say this, ann, is that I was ashamed of my studio setup for a very, very long time. I thought that I wouldn't be regarded as a true professional, much less the VO strategist, if I didn't have a $5,000 booth. I am proud of my space.  19:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You should be.  19:07 - Tom Dheere (Host) I am proud of the work that I do in it and the work that me, and with the a lot of help from my wife, did to get it to where it is. No, it doesn't cost a lot. No, it isn't pretty, but your job, bosses, is to be effective as voice actors on a performance level, on a logistical level, on a financial level and on a technical level.  19:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I don't care if it ain't pretty Well again, nobody's necessarily looking, and even if they are looking at you and your studio, really what comes out of that studio is what's important, right? It's not what the studio looks like, and I know a lot of bosses out there. I think it becomes complicated to them and sometimes a pre-built studio solution or a studio solution like Studio Bricks or Vocal to Go or LA Boos or whichever is out there, it becomes a solution that's simple to them. Well, you don't necessarily need to spend that kind of money. If you have it, of course I think that's great, but I think if you're just starting out in the industry and you're just trying to see if this is something that is going to be good for you, and if you're going to really make a go at it and have a successful voiceover business, I don't think you need to invest a lot in a studio right away.  20:15 I mean, gosh, I always talk about when we are traveling and on the road. Tom, we certainly don't have optimal recording situations in a hotel room, because a lot of times you've got the ventilation system, you've got fans running, you've got people out in the hallway in your hotel room, you've got windows and what's happening outside of windows to deal with. And so for us again, what's important is that we protect ourselves to the front, to the left, to the right, behind and above. And so a lot of times when we are away and traveling, I do the old pillow fort, the non-glamorous pillow fort, and that is literally put the pillows in front of you, to the left, to the right, above you. I take the actual luggage rack and put it on top of the desk.  21:01 And then I take the extra comforter and I make a tent out of it and then I take my 416 and that's what we do. Now I also have a tri-booth, which is great. A tri-booth, love the tri-booth, and I've got a review of the tri-booth on my blog for any of you that are interested in it. That is a PVC kind of put together constructed booth with moving blankets and a stack that has been created by George the Tech so that you can recreate your home studio on the go, and so I absolutely love my tri-booth. If I decide that I want to take that, I can check that right on the plane. It comes in its own suitcase and it's super, super easy to assemble, and so you can do that.  21:42 It's not always necessary, though. I say Create a studio, try to get yourself acclimated to what sound it is that you're looking for, great sound. If you are somewhat into audio today, if you're a podcaster, make sure that that studio really does have your acoustics properly set up and oriented, because sometimes a podcast I mean I know that when I first started podcasting I would listen to other podcasts and go why are they not concerned about their room, their sound? Because I would hear echo, sometimes the sound quality just wasn't there. But if you are coming in from another segment of the industry or another part of the industry, understand that your environment is important so that you can create good quality audio Does not have to cost a lot of money.  22:29 And, tom, I love our conversation because you are proof that you can have an amazing sounding studio and not have to invest a lot of money. You can be in a crazy city with tons of traffic, not a lot of space, and create an environment that you can do work and excel at over and over again and you don't have to invest lots of money. So thank you so much for talking to me today about your studio. Any other tips that you have for, let's say, bosses, maybe just starting out, or investigating what kind of studio to get or things to do to create a great studio.  23:07 - Tom Dheere (Host) Well, I do at vostratagescom. I also have blogs and videos that talks about gear, and I also have a gear section on my site.  23:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I believe you do too right, I do Absolutely Studio gear.  23:16 - Tom Dheere (Host) Check out both, because I guarantee there are some gear recommendations I have on my site that Ann doesn't, and then she has some on her site that I don't. So definitely check them out. There's different price points and I've talked about this stuff for many, many years, just like Ann is. But do your research. Harlan Hogan's Guide to Home Recording Studios is a great book. Sound Advice by Dan Friedman is another great book those who can be a very, very big help. And you can always book a free consult. I believe George the Tech has free consults, or at least you can contact him through the George the Tech website, because he's got an army of great engineers and that between all of them they know every microphone, they know all the hardware, they know all the software, they know all the acoustical treatment secrets.  23:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I have an affiliate page with him too, so do I VO Boss can get you a discount as well, so there you go, whether you come to Tom or VO Boss, absolutely you can get a discount ona consult with George I don't promote that because I am an affiliate with him, but literally George has been with me from the beginning. I mean, he is the one who and I have blog articles written on that who literally took my father and my homemade booth and when we were like, okay, what else can we do? There's something missing, he was the missing key. He was the one that was able to take what we had done and make it sound.  24:31 And I used to get complimented all the time by audio engineers saying what is your studio?  24:36 It's amazing and in reality it's hysterical, because if you saw what my studio looked like, it certainly wasn't glamorous or elegant, but it really did the job and just like Tom's. I mean absolutely. And I think you can be proud and it's important for you to feel proud and feel good in the space that you're in, because it is our personal voice and it is our performance that needs to excel in a booth or in a space that we feel good in, and so you want to make sure you create that space. And so if Ant and I'm sorry, your Ant's name again, bessie, so if Ant Bessie is fully supporting you in your booth. I mean, I cannot tell you the affection and how good I felt being in a studio that was designed and built by my father and my father, by the way, had a lot to do with this studio as well and it does help. I sit in the studio and I feel good, and when you feel good, you can produce good audio, and I think that that's super important. And what a fun conversation today.  25:29 Tom, thank you so much for sharing your space and talking about studios with me today. Bosses, I want to invite you to imagine a world full of passionate and empowered, diverse individuals giving collectively and intentionally to create a world that you want to see. You can make a difference. Visit 100voiceshukerorg to learn more and, of course, our sponsor, ipdtl. I love IPDTL and use it on a day-to-day basis. I just love it. Use it for all my coaching students. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Thanks, guys, bye.  26:10 - Intro (Host) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Ann Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Anne Ganguzza and special guest BOSS Emma O'Neill talk about enhancing your voiceover performances through a fusion of fitness and wellness. Emma is an award-winning voice actor who's also a seasoned yoga instructor. the BOSSES discuss how the disciplines of health and performance are deeply connected. Emma shares her inspiring transition from a gym enthusiast to a holistic voice professional and illustrates that a strong body fosters a strong voice. Anne also discusses her current health journey, shedding light on the profound influence of nutrition and exercise on the art of voice acting. Navigating the world of mindful eating is no small feat, especially with the demanding schedules of voiceover artists. The BOSSES talk about instinctual eating and its benefits for those who rely on their vocal cords for a living. Plus, we delve into strategies for managing mental health and how a strong support system can be your ally in maintaining peak performance for both mind and body. 00:01 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzzaa.  00:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am absolutely thrilled to have a very special guest, Emma, O'neill, with me today. Hello, yay, Emma is a multi-award-winning voice actor and gosh, don't I know what. I've seen her receive multiple awards at these ceremonies in the last few years. She specializes in radio, tv commercials, tv narration, promo and corporate training videos and, of course, outside of her major success in the booth outside of the booth, she is a fitness and wellness enthusiast and I'm so excited to talk to her, and she's been a certified yoga instructor for more than 25 years.  00:59 So, emma, thank you so much for joining me and I'm so, so excited to talk to you today. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here, absolutely so. I'm excited because you've combined now two of the things that are becoming my favorite thing, and what I've proven to myself over this health journey is that fitness and wellness has really helped me in the booth so much, and I'd love to talk to you about it and your experience, because, I mean, you've known this for forever, I'm sure, and, however, for me it's just kind of like wow, I can't believe how amazing I feel and how it's really helped me in my voiceover and my voiceover business. So tell the boss listeners a little bit about your journey, how you got started and how you got in voiceover as well.  01:43 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) My mother was a dance teacher, so I was in dance as a kid, in gymnastics, and then we moved to Canada and I continued with gymnastics but discovered the gym and discovered step classes at the age of like 16 or something and it was just really fun Step classes.  01:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I have to interject and say that my husband, when I met my husband, he was teaching step at a gym in addition to spin, and I would watch him on the step. I just have to say this because I'm not coordinated and he'd be like doing great vines up around the step and all sorts of dance moves and I would be like in the back because I liked him back then and I would just be kind of like trying to follow along, you're cute, but I'm not going to kill myself on the step.  02:19 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) Yeah, I'm just going to stay in the back.  02:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm going to beat him so I didn't want to hurt. Well, maybe hurting myself. God is attacking right? Didn't ever know.  02:28 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) Yeah, so I did step. I was a gym kid for a really long time and I got into yoga because I was at the gym all the time and I had hit a plateau. I was into fitness competitions and I was training for a fitness competition and I had hit a plateau and nothing was changing. Nothing was working. I would change my nutrition, I changed what I was doing, and someone suggested going to a yoga class and I was like, yeah, that's just like stretching. They're like no, no, no, go to this woman's class. I went to this class and the woman was in her late 70s, early 80s. One of her arms did not work. She had a stroke and I crawled out of that class. She handed my butt back to me. It was one of the hardest things I had ever done and I was like, oh well, now I must do that again because, yes, it was something. I just fell in love with the practice.  03:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's fantastic. I can't believe you're doing step when you were 16. One thing that I'm excited to talk to you about, because I mean bosses who have been following me know that I kind of went through a health journey. I've been through a few health journeys in my life, but this last one seemed to be more significant than others After I was diagnosed with breast cancer.  03:34 Things just kind of catapulted after that and literally my hormones got thrown off balance. I had actually just lost a significant amount of weight before I was diagnosed and I believe that that saved my life, because I think that my doctor was able to find my tumors because of that, because otherwise I had had a little, you know, she was able to feel them, so I'm very thankful for that. However, after treatment, mine was estrogen-based. I then had some chemo treatment which started kind of trying to block estrogen, because that's it was an estrogen-based cancer. I went through menopause and then it became one hormonal thing after another and then the pandemic, and so everything catapulted.  04:12 I gained a lot of weight. I gained at least all the weight back on that I had lost previous to it and then some, and this shirt that I'm wearing right now. So if bosses are watching on YouTube is my Wonder Woman shirt, which was given to me by Natalie. It's a big shout out to Natalie because after I was reconstructed and declared cancer-free, she said you are like Wonder Woman. And I'll tell you what. I have not fit into this shirt, since I have now discovered again how important nutrition is and exercise, and I've come back from my health journey losing a significant amount of weight. So I feel like Wonder Woman and I think you're going to be able to explain to our boss listeners why that's so significant and how that can really impact us in the booth. So I'm really excited. Tell us, tell us, tell us. What are you seeing is the most important thing that bosses can do to positively, let's say, affect their performance in the booth through nutrition and fitness and all of that good stuff.  05:09 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) Thank you. One of the things I always try to drive home and people tend to not want to believe it I think it's not that they don't believe it, they don't want to believe it is that health and fitness is 90% nutrition and 10% what you're doing in the gym, on a walk in a yoga studio. It's 90% what you're putting into your mouth. And the health and fitness industry I put that into air quotes it's a business and it's a multi-billion dollar business because we're fed all of these lose a dress size in 30 days, but no one's taught how to maintain the loss.  05:41 - Intro (Announcement) Hello, exactly, so we yo-yo and all of us do it, and all of us.  05:44 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) Yeah, you are not alone. You are not alone. We need to learn how to reverse diet, and reverse dieting isn't something that's taught. So, yes, you need to cut calories, calories, calories out it's just science. But you need to learn how to then build back up the calorie intake to maintain the weight that you've lost without gaining back the weight by increasing your calories.  06:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think that's key, and I think if we all had the magic pill or the magic injection, that could help us to do that right. Isn't that what the craze is now? Everybody wants these injections to magically lose weight, and I think there's one thing to be said for me, having had a significant amount of weight to lose, it took me a significant amount of time to lose it, which I think is good because, during that time I was able to really develop, I think, what I hope to be health habits that will stay with me.  06:31 I, for one, will tell you, I've lost and gained multiple times in my life, and I am at this point in my life. I am too old. I do not want to gain it back again. I'm terrified. I'm terrified to gain it back again, and so I literally am committed right now in my mind, in my mental space, to continue with the eating.  06:49 I think that's where it starts, right With the nutrition that you put in your mouth, because for the first year I couldn't exercise really, because I was so out of shape. I just couldn't. I thought I might die. To be honest with you, and people say that, oh my God, you work so hard, but I literally had a hard time breathing and so I couldn't exercise for a good year. And now I'm finally starting to and I've seen where I still need to make sure that I know exactly what's going into my mouth at all times and that's what really is helping me to keep weight off right now. That and I want to be accountable, which is one of the reasons why I'm so happy to talk to you and to find out more from you, because I feel like if I'm accountable to the bosses out there, I'm accountable to people who can educate me on this. I'm going to stand a better chance of keeping the weight off. Yeah.  07:38 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) Movement is important, like one of the best things you can do for your body is walk. Walking is fantastic. If you're sedentary we're all sedentary being voice actors it doesn't matter if you're working out on a daily basis. You're sitting for longer than you're moving, so that means you're sedentary. But if you can get your 5,000 to 10,000 steps in a day, like aim for 5,000. If you're sitting down all day, aim for 5,000, that's a good start. If you can get up to 10,000 by increasing it by a minute of walking a day, it's doing things in bite-sized pieces and it's the same with food. Everyone's biodiverse, so it means they're bio unique. So what works for me isn't necessarily what's going to work for you or what's going to work for anybody else, but in general, especially for women, we tend not to eat enough, especially during the day, and then we over eat at night.  08:25 Because then we're really, really hungry, and especially as self-employed people, and our business hours are crazy and they're all over the place and we're working as the work is kind of coming in. I know that's what I do. So it's like I'll get up in the morning and I do my meditation and I do my workout or I do a yoga practice and I have a great breakfast, and then it's six o'clock at night and I've had tea and I'm like now I'm going to stand in front of the fridge and eat the contents of the fridge because I'm hungry.  08:49 - Intro (Announcement) Why am I making dinner?  08:50 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) Why am I making dinner? I'm eating the contents of the fridge. Meal prep is a huge step. It's very helpful to have grab and go foods in your fridge, because the grab and go foods will grab bread will grab, chips will grab a banana will grab easy food.  09:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) The quick stuff.  09:04 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) Yeah, but if you've got like boiled eggs, tuna salad, chopped salad ready to go, chopped vegetables with hummus, if you have things that are grab and go and easy to grab and go but they're good for you, it's much easier to maintain or it's much easier to lose. If your goal is to lose weight, you have to meal prep. If your goal is to maintain, I think that everybody really needs meal prep, meal prep, meal prep. Just keep repeating myself Grab and go and meal prep.  09:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know, what's so interesting is that I've tried every diet under the sun. I've been on every diet. I've lost weight on most diets. It comes down to like maintaining and keeping up, but the one difference about this last plan that I went on was that I was eating, every two and a half to three hours, small high protein meals, and that worked for me, and I was that person that said no, I need to fast. I never was a person who ate breakfast in the morning. I always waited, and you're right. I mean when you wait, when all of a sudden you're like, oh my God, I'm hungry, I'm starved, and then everything goes in my mouth quickly, and then it's hard to really control what it is, and so I like, six times a day, at least tiny little meals, and for me that's perfect as well.  10:07 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) You don't need to be full. It's one of those things. I come from Ireland, originally born and raised there. I came over to Canada. We did not have a pot to piss in, so it was whatever was put onto your plate. You consumed because you did not waste.  10:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) What was there?  10:20 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) And if there was too much food on your plate, it didn't matter, you had to eat it Like it wasn't put away, it was. You will sit there and you will finish that. So I was raised with that mentality. So you would eat a meal and you would be full, full, full, full, full, full. You don't need to be full, you need to be satisfied, and it's learning how to instinctually eat that you're eating until you are. I'm good Like, could I eat more? Absolutely Do.  10:43 - Intro (Announcement) I need to.  10:44 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) No, I don't, Because I'm going to eat in another two hours anyway.  10:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, right, and that makes a lot of sense, because I found that when I did eat small meals, I could hold off until the next two and a half to three hours. I will tell you, though, the other day I came back home from a trip and I'm still kind of on that plan, but I my time was off, like I went from the East Coast to the West Coast and so I was overtired. And then, when I'm overtired, I think that's so dangerous, because then you just don't, you're not thinking straight, and then you just want to put anything in your mouth, and I probably ate one more tiny meal than I should have, and I actually got full, and I was like whoa, it's been so long, and I was really uncomfortable at that point because I had not been full. And then I was like I might have indigestion. I'm not sure, and that certainly doesn't help me when I try to voice anything in my studio, right when I've got like reflux, because that definitely affects my vocal chords.  11:36 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) Well, especially speaking of being full when you're in the booth, you don't want to feel full, you don't want to feel bloated, you don't want to feel gassy. You're voicing something and your tummy's making all sorts of noises because you're like oh, hang on a second. Oh no, there's another gurgle in the belly, so you want to be eating fibrous foods, high protein foods and thermogenic foods. Thermogenic food basically means that it takes your body more energy to consume, to digest the food, than the food is worth.  12:04 It was like there was the old myth that celery was a negative calorie food because you consume more energy eating the celery than the celery had in caloric value. It's not true, but it's the same idea. Instead of having a protein shake, have a piece of chicken. It takes your body longer to digest something solid than it does to digest something liquid. That's what thermogenic means, very interesting. So you're asking your body. It's like so you need to burn more calories to consume this food. Cool, because it takes longer. It also keeps you fuller for longer.  12:35 So, you're not full. It's not that I can't take a proper deep breath. I can't use my diaphragm. It's I'm full, I'm satisfied, but I'm going to be fuller for longer, so that when I'm reaching for food again I'm not starving and shoving. It's usually carbohydrates we're looking for when we're really hungry.  12:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, yeah, I find, if I try to stay away from carbohydrates, that was my guilty pleasure was carbohydrates. It wasn't sweets, it was carbs, because I was also well raised in a large family and I think my father might have had a piece of bread and butter with every meal and it was like that kind of bread, potatoes sort of thing and that's what I loved, and so that did not do my waistline any good for sure. But how do you feel? In addition to like what you put in your mouth, how do you feel about your mental state? Because when I got into this I was like, oh, I just can't. I've lost weight before it, just nothing I am doing is working. I find that I had very negative. I can't lose weight. How do you feel mental health effects? And I also had very bad body dysmorphia so I couldn't look at myself, and so how does that affect weight loss and how does that affect your performance on any given day in your business and in the booth?  13:43 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) Your mental health is paramount, absolutely. I start my day every day with meditation. When the alarm goes off, I sit up and I meditate because I'm still in kind of theta brain, so I'm not in awake, let's do things. Brain. I'm still in a different state where you can kind of program your brain to learn new things and it's about exercise releases serotonin, which is the happy chemical, like you want to feel good and so you want to find ways to feed your brain and calm yourself down.  14:18 Losing weight can be really challenging. If you are struggling with your weight, it can be challenging and it's also it's the devil, you know. It's so much easier to just go back to old ways because you know them, even though you know they're not good for you or they're not healthy, they're not beneficial. They're easier because you know them and it's more difficult to stick on a track that's initially a little bit challenging. Once you get past the first hump, I think things get easier. But mental health is really important, like getting off your screen before you go to bed. Easier said than done.  14:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, that is the truth.  14:49 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) Surrounding yourself with really positive people, surrounding yourself with cheerleaders especially in those times because we all have them that we're not going to be kind to ourselves, like we're not going to be our biggest cheerleader, we're going to doubt ourselves, we're not going to be. As I can do this, as we possibly can, you need to be surrounded with people who pick you up when you're in that state. So feeding your brain proper foods, breathing, exercises are fantastic. What you're reading, what you're consuming from an intellectual and mental level is really important for your brain health. But this is why yoga, for me, has always been. When I found yoga, it was so helpful for my mental health because I struggled with anxiety and I'm an introvert.  15:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So talk to me a little bit about. I do some cardio. I actually, because I had complications with my weight gain and age. I was also diagnosed with diabetes, which also affected my feet a little bit and my balance, and so walking on uneven terrain is sometimes a little difficult for me. So for me I have a pre-core in the garage, which I always love pre-core because it's not impact. So if I want to walk right, that is my walking, and I also do Pilates. So for me, I think trying to build some muscle through that is also going to help me. But let's talk about yoga a little bit, because I've not really done much yoga. But tell me, what does that incorporate for your body and also for your mental health, and how can that help us?  16:14 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) Me personally, I practice what's called Ashtanga yoga, and Ashtanga yoga is one of the older lineages of yoga. It's kind of the parent of power yoga or vinyasa yoga. So the faster paste, the faster moving styles of yoga, and I studied extensively in India. I spent a lot of time in India at the source with a guru and it's not Western yoga at all Like, it's not pretty.  16:37 You don't listen to music, no one tells you to open your heart, you are told to shut up and bend your knee and do what you're told. And it's a really interesting way of being, especially from a Western mindset. When we're speaking like I am independent and don't tell me what to do and I will do it, but it's like no, then you can't be here. Ashtanga yoga is about doing the practice, doing the movements and paying so much attention to what's happening in your body and your breath that you stop thinking. You stop the spiral of the I have to do this or the negative thoughts or any of that, because if you think too much, you're going to fall over the practice is. It's challenging, it's a very physically complicated practice to do so it gets to a point where it becomes a moving meditation, because all you're doing is paying attention to where your foot is, where your hand is, how you're going to balance.  17:25 Pull your core in. Where's your breath?  17:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's so interesting. Do you incorporate that at all in your booth, maybe, or during performance? Because that's so interesting. I find that for my students. When I talk to students, I say stop thinking about what you sound like and be in the moment and be in the scene. It almost sounds like you could use those principles to keep you in a scene so that you can be more authentic as a performer.  17:48 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) That's a really interesting way to put it, because I'm a classically trained actor and I haven't been in proper acting class for decades. So I decided to go back to actual acting versus voice acting, and I've gone back to Meisner, and Meisner is exactly that. Like Meisner is about making something real in imaginary circumstances, and it's the same idea. All of this has nothing to do with the sound of your voice. It's got everything to do with connection.  18:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, absolutely.  18:12 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) And your breath. Mind, body connection is what we're trying to do in all forms of movement. And it's the same in what we're doing in our booths. It's breath, mind and body.  18:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, and it's absolutely. We are trying to connect with our listener and that is.  18:25 I think it's such an important concept and it's such a difficult concept, I think, for people that are just starting out in this industry, because they just know it should sound like this, and I'm always trying to get my students out of their listening, out of their brain and into a scene where they can actually react and tell a story, and I feel like that's got to be so interesting in terms of you practice it in that style of yoga that that makes sense, that you could do the same principled thing in the booth.  18:54 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) It can be difficult to cross the two of them over. But when you have those moments of magic like I mean, obviously you don't record with your cans on. You've got your headphones off so that you don't fall in love with the dulcet sounds of your voice, and we all do, and a lot of people will talk about like you've got your engineer hat on and you've got your actor hat on and they should never be worn at the same time. So that's why you're not listening to yourself when you're recording. There are those magic moments where you just feel like you've dropped into. I am really telling this story.  19:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It felt right. I'm always saying like what did it feel like to you? Did it feel right? Then it probably was, it was probably authentic. You were in the moment. It's so hard, I think, for people that are thinking so much and they're in their head when they're in the booth. So do you have any special tips or exercises that you would recommend for voice actors to kind of help them? Because I think a lot of times it's a performance anxiety in the booth, even when you're by yourself. Sometimes you can just be too much in your head. Is there an exercise that you can do that can help you maybe relax, so that can help you get more into your performance?  20:02 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) You can do. I think it's called square breathing. I speak in Sanskrit when it comes to yoga stuff. I don't know the English translations of a lot of the stuff, but I think it's called square breathing and it's just about balanced breath, that you're counting your breath in for five, holding for five, exhale for five, hold for five and repeat that until you calm down. But the breathing is about it's diaphragmatic breathing. So you're trying to make sure that when you're taking an inhale, when we're nervous, when we're scared, we only breathe into the very, very top part of our chest, like from our collar bones, kind of like to above the boob, and there's nothing else happening. And with breath that's going to calm you down, you have to get it into your body. So, putting your hands on your belly, putting your hands on your lower back and trying to feel your body expand, as you breathe and not trying to stuff breath into your body.  20:50 So it's just a very simple kind of seeing your body as a jar or a vessel and you fill that vessel like any vessel, from the bottom to the middle to the top. Let it hold and then exhale it from the top to the middle, to the bottom, and if you just let yourself, slow down for a second and feel the breath enter the bottom of your body, the middle and the top, immediately the nervous system calms down.  21:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, you know, what's so interesting is that I don't want this to be all about Anne's health crises, but I'll tell you what I mean. Being unhealthy, I mean it affected every part of my body and the other part, besides being overweight, being diagnosed with diabetes, having neuropathy, I also was diagnosed with high blood pressure. I mean that's what my oncologist had said to me, that I want you to get more blood work because your blood pressure is stroke level high, which scared me, really scared me, and so, interestingly enough, I had done a lot of breathing exercises since I had a double mastectomy and when you have surgery on your chest after that surgery, it was hard for me to. I did a lot of long format narration, so I needed to figure out new ways to breathe, because a lot of times narration is lots of long sentences. Sometimes they're not written wonderfully well, and so I think the better you can breathe, the better you're going to be able to execute your sentences that are long and unwieldy and make them sound more natural.  22:16 And so there's a lot to breathing, and I found that being diagnosed with high blood pressure. Then, of course, they put me on medication which I'm now off, which I'm so thankful for, but I still take my blood pressure every day just to kind of keep it in check. And I found that if you're breathing and then exhaling and you're breathing before you take your blood pressure, it's amazing how low your blood pressure can go once you've done a few of those breathing exercises. And it's funny because my doctor will ask me she'll say are you breathing before? Because my blood pressure was so significantly lower. Every time I go in there and I take it and I said, let's see how low I can get my blood pressure this time right, so I'll just do some breathing and then exhaling too through my nose really helps a lot and it lowers your blood pressure amazingly well. That and mentally going to that place where you're happy and not stressed.  23:06 So, it's incredible Like I see the numbers change, how it really can help. And it's so interesting because people say, just take a couple of deep breaths and I'm like, yeah, what does it really do? Okay, but in reality I've seen the numbers, I've seen the numbers go down and it's incredible Just what good breathing will do and what good breathing will do in order to execute your scripts more believably and authentically, because you're not just like, oh my God, I'm just going to read and then I just went. Oh, I just went out of. Because we don't really run out of breath when we talk, naturally, because we pace ourselves right and we know where we're going to take that breath. But when there are words that aren't ours, if you have good breath support, you can certainly navigate them and make it sound a whole lot more natural. So breathing to me is incredibly important, and especially in a live directed session, I would imagine that. Do you ever get nervous, like when you're in a live directed session, and do you practice your breathing?  23:59 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) Yeah, yeah, it probably just comes naturally to you, like breathing is meditation and there's a great book that I got one of the trips that I was in India. The preface began with people think that meditation is about turning your mind off. That will only happen if your friend hits you on the head with a hammer. I don't recommend it.  24:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I like that because that's what I always thought. It's not.  24:21 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) Yeah, it's about not getting engaged with your thoughts. The way I describe it is like you're at Starbucks, you're reading your book. It's really quiet, yeah, but then it gets busy, like now the lunch rush has come in, but you still want to read your book and you don't want to leave because you've got the chair in the sun. It's great, it's wonderful, but everyone's talking around you and you're being really distracted. So you focus on that book. And you're focusing on that book and you fall straight back into the story and all of a sudden, everybody else in Starbucks fades away. They're still there, you're just not paying attention. That's meditation, and you do that with breath.  24:51 I love that. It's just you paying attention, that's all meditation is. And if you can do that with your breath, of paying attention to the feeling of the inhale, feel the breath coming through your nostrils.  25:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All right. So in the morning, when you're up and you're meditating, right, are you simply just breathing? You're not necessarily thinking.  25:07 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) Let's say positive thoughts or some days I do positive thoughts. Most days I just do breath because it helps me start my day with a really calm peace of mind. I feel much more grounded because you know an alarm will jar you as you're waking up and it kind of pulls you out of your sleep. You're not necessarily ready to be out of sleep. So if you give yourself five minutes, 10 minutes, before you get out of bed and just sit in a comfortable position and breathe and ground yourself, it starts your day in a completely different energetic place than launching yourself up out of bed, running to throw the coffee on, do whatever it is that you're doing in the morning. Take five minutes, 10 minutes. It doesn't need to be long.  25:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Our days are busy, so you just sit, breathe and start your day from there In terms of, let's say, if you're in the studio for a long amount of time, maybe somebody is doing an audio book or a long e-learning module. What are your recommendations? Because, for me, I know what my limit is in the booth before I have to kind of get up and shake things around and go pet my cat. Because, for me, I'm super hyper focused because I am trying so hard to just be in the story and to be in the moment. It's exhausting mentally at some point. What are your tips on if you have to be in the booth for a really long time, in terms of should they get up and stretch, breathe? What are your thoughts?  26:23 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) Yeah, absolutely Generally I stand for most of my sessions just because I'm comfortable doing that. But for long stuff I do have a stool that I bring in to sit in. I do chair yoga if I'm in a booth where I'm sitting for an extended period of time. So just simple body stretches, twists, bringing my knees to my chest, turning my body side to side, deep breaths, back rolls. Spinal rolls are really helpful, especially when you're waiting for release or you're waiting for approval for something. But yeah, get up. If you're sitting down, get up and move around as quietly as you can and stretch, breathe, reach as high as you can to the ceiling and stretch, especially stretch out your ribs, stretch out your torso. It's helpful.  27:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Have you found that physical stretching exercise breathing has actually changed your voice in a physical sense?  27:08 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) Probably. I mean you can change the shape of your body by changing your lung capacity. So because you can change your ribs, because it's just muscle, it's the same as working a bicep, right I?  27:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) mean it's muscle and bone.  27:19 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) But if you're working your intercostals a lot, you can actually change the shape of your torso and broaden your ribs. But yeah, I think that in general with my voice, when I'm calm, my voice is much deeper.  27:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) When I'm not calm, my voice pitches up into my head because I'm tense and I'm breathing Sure, that makes sense and I feel like your voice is coming from here in your vocal. Any specific exercises that can help maybe relax vocal cords, because I feel like that's where a lot of tenseness is, when people are reading and their voice tends to pitch up a little bit higher. Anything that can help relax in terms of I think your tongue out, does a ton of fantastic stuff.  27:58 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) Oh really, uh-huh, uh-huh. I love that you grab your tongue with a tissue, just because it's difficult to hold your tongue with your fingers, because it's slippery.  28:04 - Intro (Announcement) But if you grab your tongue with a?  28:05 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) tissue and pull it out and try to speak. It actually stretches the tongue root. Simple pressing in with your thumbs into your tongue root and turning your head up, so you're pressing underneath the jaw, because the tongue root can get really, really tense, especially again if you are uncomfortable, if you are stressed out, all the things that your tongue will hold. So getting your tongue out of your mouth and then tying toothpick, as I said, tongue turning up will relax the tongue root.  28:33 And one of my favorites, which can be uncomfortable but very, very beneficial, is stretching out the muscles of your jaw. Okay, by putting your heel of your thumb, okay, just below your ear, underneath your cheekbone. Yes, so you go underneath your cheekbone, so up over your jaw, between your jaw and your cheekbone.  28:51 - Intro (Announcement) Oh yeah, uh-huh, uh-huh.  28:52 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) And push and pull down. So you're pushing you pull down and the bone of your thumb will press right into that muscle. It's like oh yeah, do them both at the same time. Wee, I love that.  29:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I want to be able to keep my voice in a more relaxed, lower sound, and I feel like that might be something that could help me to do that, that when you said, when you're more relaxed yes, when I'm more relaxed, my voice is lower.  29:18 - Intro (Announcement) At the end of the day.  29:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I have to be careful when I'm doing long. That's the e-learning modules, right. Because if I start to just go into like automated mode, right, then my voice tends to get higher and higher and especially, I think, for females, it tends to get a little screechy, and then I'm kind of talking like this, I'm a little bit more stressed and I will tell people like, shake it out, do some breathing, because what you're not realizing is that all of a sudden, your voice is now starting to sound very strained. So what tips can you give for our boss listeners out there? What would be your best tips for mental, physical health, for impacting positively their voice and their voiceover careers? What are your best tips Take?  30:00 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) time for yourself. All of us just people in general tend to give too much Like we're making sure we're taking care of the kids, we're taking care of our partner, we're taking care of whatever we're doing we're taking care of. Make sure to take time for yourself because you cannot. You cannot pour for an empty cup, so you have to make sure your cup is full and then from there you can give.  30:21 So it's again as you're waking up in the morning, take five minutes and it's like if you've got a busy house. Take five minutes in the bathroom, sit down and close the door. No one's allowed in. It's five minutes and just be with yourself and breathe. If you can get out for a walk, whether it's on a treadmill or outside, it doesn't matter where you're walking. Walk it's just beneficial for your lungs, it's beneficial for your mind and it's beneficial for your body.  30:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm so happy you said that, because I finally have made that time for myself.  30:53 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) It's so important. It's so important you have to take the time and meal prep. I take about an hour on a Sunday to meal prep for most of the week. It doesn't take that much time. Keep things simple. It's almost like when you're packing for a trip and you don't want to take too much clothes, so you mix and match, Like you make 12 outfits from like four pairs of pants and four shirts.  31:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Okay well, I have already done that. I know I'm terrible. I have a really hard time doing that.  31:17 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) I haven't figured it out, but other people are good at packing. We're just using this analogy.  31:22 But it's the same kind of thing with food that if you pick kind of like eggs, tuna, chicken and tofu, they're your four proteins that you really like, and you really like this type of lettuce and you really like this type of vegetable and you really like this type of carb, like sweet potatoes or whatever it is that you're liking. Make all of those and then you can mix and match them into meals and they're ready to go already there.  31:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, so I want to kind of expand on that. So what do you do? Now? We're going to be at Vio Atlanta, so what would you recommend when you are traveling? Are you prepping food for when you go or are you researching, like places that you might eat and healthy options?  31:59 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) I am known at conferences for figuring out where the grocery store is or if I can order from a grocery store into the hotel. I always bring a blender. Oh okay, so always I always bring a little magic bullet.  32:13 - Intro (Announcement) So I can make protein shakes.  32:14 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) Okay, so I'll bring my own protein powder. I'll bring anything that I can. I'm probably going to get arrested at some point flying because I've got all of these powders in Ziploc bags.  32:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I've been doing that too, I have that like I'm drinking my electrolytes here and I have all the powders and yeah, I did get stopped, actually, and they said, oh you've got a lot of special food in here.  32:33 And I'm like you're right and it's helped me so much to plan. As a matter of fact, I end up either losing or maintaining weight for the last few trips that I've gone on, and I'm so thankful for that, because typically that's the time where I'm just going to let myself go and have a drink or I'm going to let myself go and have the bread at dinner, and thankfully that has not happened.  32:51 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) So yeah, there's tricks around it. It's like if you want to have a glass of wine, have a glass of wine, just like if you have generally. If you have a lot of fruit during the day, cut out a couple of pieces of fruit and then you have your glass of wine. So it's about balancing things out and understanding where calories come from and how things are burned. But yeah, big planner, I always get spinach and boiled eggs and whatever fruit. I'll always have something in the fridge so that I have breakfast in my room. So I get up and I go to the gym.  33:17 And then I have breakfast in my room and I have snacks in my bag, whether they're protein shakes or something handful of nuts or whatever. And then I only ever have dinner in the restaurants.  33:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That makes a lot of sense. I'm so glad you said that You're validating me, because I bring all of my stuff for breakfast and during the day, but then at night I'll go and I'll have my lean protein and vegetables.  33:39 And it's amazing how accommodating restaurants are these days, which I'm very, very happy for. I'll just be like, oh, I have dietary restrictions, and if I think they're not, they don't understand. I'll just say I'm allergic. I'm allergic to potatoes, I'm allergic to bread, no, but they always come through for me. So I'm very happy that I've been able to make that work. So I'm excited to kind of see you in Atlanta, and so now I feel validated. Thank you so much.  34:03 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) Oh, absolutely.  34:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And it's been an amazing conversation. How can bosses find out more about you and find you on the internet and maybe, if they have any questions for you, chat with you about health and fitness? And voiceover?  34:14 - Emma O'Niell (Guest) On the interwebs you can find me. My voice website is Emma at EmmaOniallvocom, or my yoga website is mysoretocom, like my M-Y-S-O-R-E-T-Ocom. I love that Because that's where it comes from, and Instagram is my name, emma.  34:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oniall. Okay, perfect, I'll put those links on the show notes. Emma has been so wonderful talking to you. I'm so excited to see you in person again at Vio Atlanta and maybe I'll get to work out with you in the morning, absolutely. And we'll compare notes on our meals. I love that.  34:46 I love that. Thank you so much, bosses. I want you to take a moment and imagine a world full of passionate and powered diverse individuals giving collectively and intentionally to create the world they want to see If you can make a difference. Visit 100voiceswhocareorg to learn more. Big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network, like Emma and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.  35:17 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of Vio Boss with your host, ann Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Free distribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Ever find yourself wondering how a thick Boston accent might play out in the voiceover world? This week is about speech impediments and regional accents in the voiceover industry. It's not just the hurdles; the BOSSES cover strategies and encouragement for those voice talents looking to make their mark while staying true to their sound. From the importance of clear articulation to embracing the quirks that make your voice distinctive, they cover the gamut of what it means to stay authentic. It's not about mimicking a character; it's about bringing them to life with your unique vocal fingerprint. And for those thinking about their own twang or drawl, we discuss whether it's a hindrance or a hot commodity. This episode isn't just a discussion; it's a roadmap for voice actors striving to find their niche and shine in the competitive voiceover landscape. 00:01 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:20 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Boss super power series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with my very special, wonderful friend, special best boss guest co-host. Well, that was a big old mouthful.  00:35 - Lau (Guest) Well, I'll see you next time. Thank you, Anneie. It's awesome to be here. What a great introduction, oh.  00:40 - Anne (Host) Lord, you know how I was like. That was such a mouthful to say and literally I try to talk for a living, and it's a great segue into the topic that I'd like to chat about today, and I know we've discussed this briefly before, but you and I have both had either people on your roster or people that submit to you, and I have students that ask me. They come to me, they have a heavy accent or they might have a little bit of a list or a speech impediment and they will say to me so is this going to affect my voiceover career? Will I still be able to do this Lau? I'm going to ask you, how do you approach that?  01:21 - Lau (Guest) It's a lot, Anneie. Well, truth to tell, the agency does get quite a few submissions. We just got a couple today that clearly, if anyone has a pretty decent ear can pick up some sort of speech issue going on, whether it's an impediment, a slur, a sibilant sound, whatever it is, and it's common. It's actually quite common and I'm careful not to tell people oh, forget it, count yourself out, can't be in this game, forget it, forget it. I always like to say let me offer some.  01:52 If I'm going to do it, let me offer some strategies based on what I'm hearing and what you could be doing as the talent to see is it accurate what I'm hearing.  02:02 So the first thing I would suggest with talent is cross check it and pull it with six or eight of your closest peeps connected to the industry, if you can, whether it's an audio engineer or a coach, a couple of VO talent, and say, hey, listen to my recording. Do you hear any kind of an articulation issue? Do you hear a slurring issue? Do you hear anything? And be honest with me and get kind of like an informal poll on that first, because I never just take one person's opinion on it. So that's the first thing I would do. If they are hearing issues, if they are hearing problems, I would actually say, okay, let me see who is around that I can be getting on a consultation with, who is maybe a therapist, a speech therapist in figuring out how do I diagnose where I'm at right now with my speech and who can help me get to a cleaner, clearer sound. That's really the first thing you have to figure out.  02:57 - Anne (Host) Yes, my prerequisite is that I need to be able to understand you. So I like to say there's a lot more acceptance for, let's say, minor speech impediments and dialects and regionalisms. I mean. It's more accepted than ever before. However, I need to be able to understand what you're saying. So if it gets in the way of me understanding what you're saying in a normal conversational speed, then I feel as though you might want to either talk to a speech therapist or a dialect coach to see if it's something that can be cleaned up.  03:28 Sometimes it's a physical impediment, like it's placement of your teeth, or I've had people that come to me with braces and they're like I want to do voiceover, and so they have a big mouthful of lists and saliva and sometimes that's not going to be hireable and I'll just say well, at some point you'll want to make sure that you're going to be getting those off and whatever it takes for you to be able to speak a little bit clearly. Now, I'm the big fan Lau and I don't know about you, but I don't want people to be too articulate.  03:56 I need to be able to understand you, but too articulate creates a persona which is maybe not forgiving enough for the copy. A lot of times it might sound too proper, it might sound too robotic, it might sound too perfect, and I don't want that.  04:11 - Lau (Guest) But I certainly want to be able to understand you Right and I think it's the old rule of thumb, like if it's something that is pulling focus away from the messaging and people will tell you. A listener should be able to tell you. Even just a layman listener should be able to say am I focused on what you're talking about or am I focused on the particular speech or the particular dialect issue that you may be having?  04:33 - Anne (Host) Sure.  04:34 - Lau (Guest) And I would even talk to voiceover coaches that deal with speech, articulation and breathing, as many of us do. Many of us are trained in that and oftentimes that unto itself can help Learning breathing. Are you breathing properly? If you did have those braces and you had them taken off 10 years ago, did you ever learn to speak with proper placement, based on now where your teeth are and where your tongue is going and all your major articulators? Did you ever acclimate to the speech? Of that, I think it's a really good question to ask. And also we can't discount any mental acuity when it comes to our habitual patterns that we're doing. Are we even aware of them? Do we even hear them? Do you mumble? Do you mumble? People will say, oh, I know, I do that Lau, oh, I know, I've been told.  05:22 - Anne (Host) And I said well, do something Exactly. Yeah, right, right. It can't just be all. I have knowledge of it. Right, I have knowledge.  05:30 - Lau (Guest) Right, exactly, and it gets me into accents and dialects a little too, in the sense that we just had met with a potential client today and talked about that, where he came from. I said where's your background and where do you come from? You have such an ethnically amorphous dialect and it's so fascinating. And he said here's what one of my coaches told me Don't bother trying to eliminate that sound, it's going to be really hard, really impossible. You get to a certain age. You know you don't want to be spending tons and tons of cash on dialect coaches. It's immense to do the training to really flatten out that sound, to get what's called a North American dialect, which you probably can't get after a certain age. It's very difficult. So I said no, you have to celebrate what you have. You have to celebrate, celebrate your diversity.  06:17 - Anne (Host) Celebrate your uniqueness, yes, but Absolutely.  06:19 - Lau (Guest) But yes, but instead of yes and yes, but you have to be real about what placement that's going to give you. Sure, I'm a commercial agent. If I got a bunch of North American clients coming through, they're probably not going to want your particular sound just because the target market you don't represent that and basically tacking on the end of that Lau.  06:41 - Anne (Host) I get a lot of people British accents right that want to do commercial and I'm like, well, your market is probably not the United States right now. The wonderful thing about voiceover is that it's global, but probably in a commercial market in the US you don't hear a lot of commercials that have British accents right. However, you'll hear a lot of e-learning that has British accent, because, hey, who isn't a sucker for a really lovely British accent and it's pleasant to listen to you, for sure. But I think you have to talk to someone, and your coach or your agent should be very real and very honest with you to understand that there can be limitations to your market, for sure, and they should advise you as such.  07:21 I would welcome the diversity, I would welcome your uniqueness and your sound. If you have an accent or a regionalism, and I think that it's wonderful. I mean, I am so happy because, god, how many dollars did I spend trying to get rid of my? First? I had an upstate New York accent and then I moved to New Jersey and then I had a Jersey accent and then I moved to.  07:39 California. So I've got a mishmash of all of them and over the years when it was important to people to have that very neutral whatever a neutral accent is these days right, and I beat it out of myself and so in reality it's not uncommon for people who've been in the industry for a while, they're used to that. But I think today I welcome, I welcome people that sound unique, that sound like themselves. I think it's wonderful. But again, you have to understand your market may be limited, but also embrace what it is. And if it is an impediment or it's a problem physically with how you're speaking or you're physical in your mouth, I think it's something to maybe take a look at if you truly want to be in this business.  08:22 - Lau (Guest) Oh, I couldn't agree more. And the vocal patterns that we create over time. I'll get a lot of submissions of people that again, they have a beautiful voice and they're articulate, they're fine. But they're in these patterns and what we call them as mono patterns, where they're not one tone specifically they change their tonality. But it's patterned, it's like rhythmic or rhyming, or there's a certain cadence to what they're doing, so that it's formula, it's expected, it's a rhythm. And I say, take your acting classes, work in your coaching sessions to break that.  08:53 - Anne (Host) Well, yeah, that's absolutely where acting comes into play, because you're basically just trying to do voice acting by mimicking what you think you hear, or what you hear in your head is to what you think people want to hear, and in reality, just wipe that out and just act, because we don't ever think about what we sound like when we talk to one another. We just, you know, I'm not, oh, do I inflict up? How do I, how do I sound?  09:17 - Lau (Guest) You know I'm talking to you right now, laura, I'm not concerned with how I sound, to be honest with you.  09:22 - Anne (Host) I mean, I just we're talking, we're having that conversation, but yeah, you're right. There are patterns and anything that is repeated or consistent can become very white noise, very robotic, very reedy sounding, which does not engage your listener, and the whole purpose of what we do is to be able to connect with our listener.  09:44 - Lau (Guest) Yeah, and I think that just the basic rule of thumb is and again you can ask around to get this feedback is is there anything that's getting in the way of my messaging? Like, whatever it is, just tell me what it is, and it may even be something beautiful like oh I have a sexy seductive sound and I turn that on. I turn that on all the time. Well, sometimes it's not appropriate to do that.  10:04 Yeah, stop that Sometimes it's, yeah, sometimes it's coming out on a product that they're not looking for. That Exactly so it's getting in the way. The mechanics of that are getting in the way of the product itself.  10:16 - Anne (Host) And I have a big issue, and I know that you brought that up. I have a big issue with females trying to sound that way and people expecting that female sound that way. Because, number one, that's a horrible stereotype and that's the chocolate commercial or the alcohol commercial you know what I mean.  10:29 - Lau (Guest) Yeah, I can't take another job commercial. I just can't. I just can't.  10:32 - Anne (Host) As a matter of fact, there's so many ways to be sexy with your own voice and not trying to put on any kind of sound. So, yeah, ladies, please leave that one, or even men, too, that have that please. And women who have that voice, that can be yes, hello, it's my elegant. Well, elegant is different than sexy. And then there's the male voice that you get a lot of Anneouncers right and they just wAnnea hear themselves land the word right, and then we'll land it like this and they like to hear the end of that and that becomes a pattern, it becomes repetitious, it becomes something that is expected and certainly does not engage your listener. It just becomes something that becomes boring after a while.  11:11 - Lau (Guest) No, and credibility in any kind of style that you're doing is a sort of unintentional kind of delivery that it really is about connecting with the other person that you're connecting with, rather than sounding like you're connecting with the other person you're connecting with Right, and so that sameness whatever that is that sameness oftentimes comes from let me manufacture, let me create, or I hear a lot of clients say Lau, you want me to sound like this. I say no, I don't really want you to sound like this, I want you to be this.  11:43 - Anne (Host) Yeah, yeah, yeah, I want you to be it.  11:45 - Lau (Guest) I want you to be it. I don't want you to sound like it, because it would be like in our terms, like can you just sound like a mother? Well, I'm a mother and I can tell you there's many different sounds to being a mother. It isn't just a mother sound Right, or I want you to sound sexy. Well, there's many different intonations of what that could be like, so I would caution people to be careful of sounding the mechanics of sound and getting too much into that versus the landscape of intrinsic emotional value and authentic connection?  12:17 - Anne (Host) Oh, absolutely. And especially when you get, when you're auditioning, too right and it'll say you might have a sound delay. So what you do when you have a sound delay, you're trying to just sound like them. And then what you forget to do is you're trying so hard to sound like them that you forget to tell the story.  12:31 As a matter of fact, I always say when casting specs come out and they say think Jennifer Garner or think whoever they might have, whoever the voice of the day is Chris Pratt, don't think that way, but just chAnnel their personality and that's where the acting will come in. And then, because nobody wants you to necessarily, well, sometimes there will be special occasions where they really do want a sound alike, and in that case I think there are people out there that have very, very, it's unmistakable, and you're like, oh my gosh, you sound just like, and that, I think, is a separate marketing tactic. However, for the most part, when casting is asking for a particular sound, I always say, well, don't try to reproduce the sound or mimic the sound, just chAnnel the actor.  13:16 - Lau (Guest) Oh, I love that. ChAnnel the actor. And you'll notice, with actors, especially those that are mimicking, say, a political figure or something, because they're comedians, they're going to throw their whole body into their whole, their mind, their body, their content, their whatever. They won't just sound like that person, they'll start becoming that person.  13:36 - Anne (Host) They have to embody that person.  13:38 - Lau (Guest) Yeah, they have to embody that person really, to do it authentically and to do it well. And so we do the same thing. We're mimicking as well in terms of we're mimicking a real person in this industry, but in order to do it, we have to embody.  13:50 - Anne (Host) Yes, yes, so you know you don't sound but embody the sound.  13:54 - Lau (Guest) Yeah, it's like oh, can I mimic an executive? Let me mimic an executive. Sound, don't sound B. It's hard because I have to know, like, well, where are they and what's the situation and what industry are they in and how old are they, and that's going to give me a lot of cues as to the authentic connection versus just the pattern of a sound that they're creating. This is a great conversation. I love this.  14:14 - Anne (Host) Yeah, so if you have somebody who is Latino and has a very heavy right Spanish accent, what would you say to them?  14:20 - Lau (Guest) Well, in regards to there's a market, there's certainly a market, I think. In regards to Latino, you've got a lot of different dialects. I'd say. First thing that comes to my mind is Are you accent free in your native language? You would know that, or you could ask to find out if you're accent free and if not, what is your dialect? What is the particular dialect, so that we know for the particular castings, if they're looking for certain dialects, that you've fallen to that, and a lot of them are not. A lot of them are saying we would like native, authentic Spanish, latino, but not particular dialect. So that's interesting. That opens up the playing field for you.  14:56 - Anne (Host) I think it's great yeah.  14:58 - Lau (Guest) I think being able to speak Spanish is just like a gold card.  15:01 - Anne (Host) Oh, absolutely, to a ton more work, right, absolutely. And understanding that and understanding where the markets are for that. And so I might have somebody that says to me, well, will this work for e-learning or will this work for corporate? And I'll say, well, you have to understand that your market is going to be more of a global market or your market will be those companies that are looking to be able to expand in that region. So I'm not going to say no and I'm not going to say that you necessarily need to go spend thousands of dollars on dialect coaching, right, and it's also difficult.  15:32 That's not like oh here let me sound like somebody from Minnesota, but yet I I'm.  15:37 - Lau (Guest) And also Anneie. It's not fun. It's not fun work.  15:40 - Anne (Host) No, it isn't. It's very hard, it's very boot camp.  15:43 - Lau (Guest) It's very drill. It's very hardcore, Like in conservatory actor training. Oftentimes they'll do a training system where they'll learn a particular dialect or they'll have to get a particular accent. It's hard. It's a regimentation that you have to go into and really prescribe to and you have to have a reason to do that. Most people don't have a reason to do that.  16:02 - Anne (Host) Yeah, so that's a good question, laugh. Now, is there a reason? I mean, there used to be a thing we have dialect coaches, but we also have coaches that teach dialects, right? So I have a role and I need to have an Irish accent. So is it something these days that you believe voice actors should pursue, and what type of genres could be looking for that these days, or are they all looking for authentic? That's a?  16:26 - Lau (Guest) good question. Right, it's a good question. I think, years gone by, when I was training, yes, you'd have more reason to do it Now. No, you don't have as much reason to do it, because even in animation, oftentimes we're looking for more authentic native sounds and accents of people, talent that really come from the place that they are voicing, and so I'd be very careful of spending too much time and energy and money and resources learning accents when really oftentimes you're going to see those auditions calling for indigenous speakers to these particular areas, absolutely.  17:01 And if it's something that they're asking you for and they're interested in working with you, then it's really a pointed reality of why you would do it Like there's an end game to it. You know what I mean. Otherwise I wouldn't. I wouldn't do it so quickly.  17:14 - Anne (Host) All right. So we've discussed people who have, let's say, accents, dialects, regionalisms let's just say a Boston accent that are not necessarily a different language but definitely a regionalism, and what would you say to them in terms of their marketability, let's say in commercial or their marketability, right, okay, so I have a strong Boston accent and I want to get into voiceovers and do commercials, and what do you do when you get a demo where you hear that everywhere?  17:47 - Lau (Guest) Right, I mean. I personally love it because I know there are a lot of gigs out there that look for authentic New England dialects, and there's many of them. There is no such thing as the Boston accent. Massachusetts has like over a hundred dialects. So, it really is specific. But the first thing I ask is can you drop your accent and do North American? Many Bostonians can, actually, if they're actors, they can and many cAnneot. They just know the difference whether you can do it or whether you can't do it.  18:14 - Anne (Host) Is it worth it for someone to invest in doing it, would you say, if they wanted to get into voiceover as a career?  18:20 - Lau (Guest) No, I do not think it is. I honestly don't think it is, because it only takes one or two slips on a vowel sound yeah.  18:28 And you know it and you know it. I think it would be very, very highly stressful to do that kind of thing, especially like as an adult. If you're a kid, that's different. You can pick it up young, but if you're an adult, I don't think it's worth your time. I think you should just go for the gold, just like, go for every single thing that that Boston dialect will offer to you. Yeah, absolutely, and just claim it. Say I'm the Boston gal, I'm the Boston guy. This is what I do.  18:54 - Anne (Host) And I'll tell you what I've created many a demo, many a corporate demo and an e-learning demo for people in New York and people in New England and people who have a bit of a regionalism Now, Southern, even Southern, like South Carolina, North Carolina and Texas I've definitely done Texas, so anybody that has somewhat of a Southern accent, as long as it's not, like I said, as long as it's not impeding my understanding of what it is that you're trying to convey, and I don't think that it's so full of the regionalism that other people can't understand either. But I always, always make sure that my students know that there may be a slightly limited market because of it.  19:32 - Lau (Guest) That's all, oh but listen, you know what, Anneie. Here's the truth. If you're in the larger market of, say, the commercial world in North American sound, it's highly competitive, Absolutely. Just because you're in the majority of what the sound is what they're looking for. It does not mean it's easier to book, oh gosh, it's harder.  19:49 - Anne (Host) In fact, oftentimes it's harder to book. It's harder.  19:51 - Lau (Guest) I'll give you a quick example, because you were talking about British earlier we just had a casting for British, authentically British, and we had in our roster we have about 500 talent.  20:00 - Anne (Host) Authentically British. I say, that's another topic.  20:03 - Lau (Guest) Native, native British. We had four people audition four and out of the four we had to drop one who we know was not Native British, and why she submitted, I don't know, but we ditched it, we dropped it right out. The others are natively. They live in the UK, right, and there you go, so they have much more chance of booking their job.  20:24 - Anne (Host) Oh, gosh, yeah, well, that's it.  20:26 - Lau (Guest) Then the 85 who just auditioned for our North American bank commercial.  20:31 - Anne (Host) That's just my thought and that's understanding your market and understanding. So, like I'm a big fan of target market specific demos right. So if you have a regionalism, if you're bilingual, if you have that capability, I always say let's showcase that in a demo right, so that the people who are hiring or want to hire you or potentially hire you, understand those are what I consider to be unique specialties and also understand for yourself that those are markets you will seek because it's great to be we always talk about. Well, you need to be versatile, but also knowing what your niche is and knowing where your market is is amazing because you can be the go-to for that market.  21:11 - Lau (Guest) Right, like I can't name all the talent in my North American roster, but I know my British talent. Wow, they're memorable, yeah. Well, it's not because the North American talent are not as important, it's because there's many more of them. Sure.  21:27 And a lot of them are very similar in traits, in terms of how they sound. So that's just me. But I say listen, if you're in a minority, I would boast that, I would brand that, I would have a ball with that, I would not hide that and I would never. Here's the thing don't try to be something you're not. Yeah, be the best version of you that you can be. If you want to work on the side, let's say you have some extra income and you say, oh, but I want to work on it I say, well, then go work on it. But don't have unrealistic expectations of being able to compete in a market with people who have those native sides, absolutely.  22:03 - Anne (Host) Wow yet another really amazing conversation, wow, I love it. Bosses, so embrace, embrace that individuality. If it happens to be something that might be a physical impediment speech impediment you might want to take a look at maybe how can you take steps to correct that if you truly want to be in voiceover to do that. And also, yeah, get the opinions of trusted coaches, trusted colleagues and friends, just to see. And if somebody tries to sell you a demo right away without addressing those things, I want you to just literally just run, run the other way. You should absolutely. If you're looking to get into this industry and you do have a regional dialect, if you do have a speech impediment, if it's your most cherished dream, I still don't want you to go ahead and get a demo right away. I would absolutely, absolutely speak to a few coaches about it, speak to trusted colleagues, trusted friends and family and absolutely get their opinions on it. So, la, thank you for great code as always Wonderful chat, as usual.  23:09 And, of course, bosses. We want you to create a world in which your voice can absolutely make a difference and you can by giving and finding out more at 100 voices who care to learn more, all right, big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. See you next week, bye, bye.  23:39 - Intro (Anneouncement) Join us next week for another edition of VOBoss with your host and Genguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.  24:07 - Anne (Host) Hey, la, do you know what time of year it is? What time is it? It is the audition demolition holiday, holiday Audition. Oh my gosh, la, I am so excited for this audition demolition. It is, of course, holiday themed. Guys, it is on December 14th. Get those auditions in and of course, you're going to have so much fun with the themed scripts and what. I don't even know what I'm saying. Oh, I can't say A blooper. Yeah, there we go One more time.   

Today's voiceover landscape is brimming with untapped potential, and we're here to map it out for you. From acing live Zoom auditions to nailing in-person meetings, we've got you covered with all the preparation and adaptability tips you'll need. Join us as we delve into diversifying your voiceover skillset and why leaning into a variety of genres, like e-learning and corporate narration, could be your ticket to consistent work. Plus, don't miss our candid discussion on the art of evolution in the voice acting world, emphasizing the importance of ongoing training and a measured approach to carving out your niche. Whether you're a newbie to the mic or a vocal veteran, this dialogue is tuned to resonate with your voiceover aspirations. 00:01 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:20 - Anne (Host) Hello everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Boss Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with my super special boss guest co-host Lau Lapitas.  00:33 - Lau (Guest) And it's great to be back, as always, yay awesome, all right Lau.  00:39 - Anne (Host) We've got a topic that I know is probably pretty common that you hear. I've been hearing it quite a bit lately and it's all about and I have been at this for a year now and I just am not booking. What can I do? I don't know what to do at this point. I don't know if I should just give up voiceover, or how do I get more bookings? So there's a good question, Lau.  01:09 - Lau (Guest) It's a great question and it's a common question. I know you and I have fielded that one for years and continue to do so, and I just had a client in a coaching session who the entire session was about that. Right, she was angry, frustrated, she was frustrated, she was hitting a wall, depressed, yeah, but just kind of like at a loss. Really like what am I doing wrong? Or at a loss. And I'll say one of the first things on our hit list that I'd like to talk about is redirecting the energy. So the first thing I did was and I know her very well for many years I wanted to redirect the energy towards her, not in the sense that she's doing anything wrong.  01:48 It's not about right or wrong here. It's about how am I moving forward in my marketing plan? Do I have a marketing plan? Is this something that is a real part of my day? And going into a time management, looking at a time management organizational tool of some kind and really, really making it real. Because she kept saying to me Lau, you know me, I'm a realist, I'm a realist. I said I'm a realist and I'll tell you for real you got to have a calendar in front of you For real.  02:16 Every day, every day. What am I doing in this day to put myself into the universe? That's really on me, that's on you, that's on me.  02:26 - Anne (Host) Right? Well, first of all, amen, applause, applause, applause. And so I want to just say the word that I think is so important, that so many people miss, and that is marketing, marketing, marketing, marketing. When you are not getting work right, you can have the best voice in the world. How many times do I say this Lau?  02:44 And it doesn't go good if nobody knows about it, okay, and so nobody can hire you. Like, nobody can hire you if they don't know you exist. And so if you're not booking, the first thing I say to look at is marketing. And I again will say to you companies hire departments full of people who are marketers, and those marketers, their only job is to go out and get leads, send emails, create marketing campaigns, do social media, do all of that stuff just to get a lead. And I can just tell you, like my husband who works in event management, right, they go to conferences, they sponsor booths, they talk, they present and they spend thousands upon thousands of dollars in their marketing efforts just to get business right and to stay afloat and to keep that business thriving or build the business, no matter what they're doing.  03:35 So I think that voice actors tend to really miss the mark when it comes to thinking about how important their marketing is, or their marketing because they're not familiar with it. They're not marketers, they didn't go to school for marketing. They kind of just go oh yeah, I got a market. And so then they think maybe a post on social media is marketing. Or they think I sent an email, nobody responded and you have not tried hard enough. I'm just saying Lau. What are your thoughts on that? Because I think most people have to put like a thousand percent more effort into their marketing than they do.  04:07 - Lau (Guest) I really think that when people come into this profession and I'll call them actors because it could be any kind of performer yeah, I don't think it's specific to voiceover the marketing element is something that we're just oftentimes not trained in, we're not aware of. It isn't like business 101. I didn't get an MBA, so what am I doing? Kind of thing. Well, it's just kind of the coach throws it at you and you go what? Wait a second, I thought I was becoming a voiceover talent. Now you're telling me I have to be my own production team, I have to be my own talent, I have to be a producer, I have to be a marketer, I have to brand myself. Yeah, you really do. So. I see it step by step.  04:45 I think it's important to understand your schedule first. A lot of folks that I work with come in and they literally don't know what they're doing. They don't know their schedule. I say how many hours in a week are you dedicated to putting your business out in the world? They say I don't know. Maybe a couple hours in a week or maybe six hours. I said not enough, not even close to marketing departments.  05:05 - Anne (Host) eight hours a day and more Eight hours a day.  05:07 - Lau (Guest) You got to go into it every single day and have a. It doesn't need to be constant, it needs to be consistent. So the consistency is really what you're looking for. You don't have to be marketing all day long, because you may be auditioning all day long, but you have to be able to multitask as you're editing, as you're delivering, as you're talking with a client, as you're auditioning. You have to be able to multitask. And here is the homework assignment I gave to her. I said I want you, once you understand your calendar and you have your schedule in front of you. Thank you too. Pull three leads for me every single day. Three, right. So if you do it five days a week, that's 15 leads in a week. That's pretty sturdy. If they're leads, they could be cold, they could be warm, you could be connected to them, they could be out there in the universe. But I want you to do that because every potential lead you have, every suspect that turns into a prospect, opens up potentially a door to a whole world that you don't have right now.  06:10 - Anne (Host) And I want to now kind of tack on to that and say that now that you've got leads you did three leads a day, you've done five days and 15 leads. Now understand that those leads are just that. They are leads. Right, those are people that you want to be able to market to. However, you also have to assess are they at a point, right at this time in space, to hire? Right? Do they have a need for you? Do they have a need for your particular animated character voice that is female and is high-pitched and young sounding? Do they have a need for it at this precise moment? Probably not.  06:45 I'm just going to say right, More than likely, the lead that you have chosen, if you're really choosing lead after lead after lead, right. They more than likely do not need it at this moment. However, they may need it down the road, and so that's where the consistency has to come in consistent, consistent, consistent. You have to revisit that lead, right, and you have to revisit that lead because they may not need you today, but they might need you tomorrow, they might need you six months from now, and you have to really be consistent with that and then keep good track of those leads so that you know when you last contacted them. So you're not contacting them every day and you're not Anneoying them, because, God only knows, I have had Anneoying people contact me over and over and over again.  07:26 - Lau (Guest) You have the stalkers.  07:28 - Anne (Host) Literally trying to sell me SEO services or web services or whatever it is that they're trying to sell to me. And I can tell because I see the thread in my email right. There's like oh, there's the sixth time they've tried.  07:40 Sorry to bother you, but not really so you do need to understand that those leads that you get more than likely aren't ready at this precise moment to purchase your voice, unless, of course, your leads are hot leads right. Then we talk about cold leads, warm leads and hot leads right. Hot leads you already have knowledge that they need a voice that fits your particular description. Right, and that would be something that is timely. You want to make sure you're timely and that you address that at the time. Otherwise, you've got cold leads, which is what most of us right, because we don't wear.  08:14 We just want anything. Right? We want any kind of job, right? I need a commercial, or I need a corporate narration, or I need an e-learning from this company, right? Well, there could be a multitude of things that the company needs, but maybe they don't need a commercial voice right away, maybe they are not doing any training because there's no new products. So just understand everything involved with that, with the marketing, which is again why companies hire entire departments with lots of people to do this, because the more leads they secure, the more chances, right of making a sale.  08:46 - Lau (Guest) I love that. I think it's terrific and I think too here's the second thing, technical tip I want to put out there as well that I said to this particular client I would suggest that you go out into the world. It's up to you how often you can do that, depending on your life and your transportation, but you should be going out into the world to a live event Now. We should be able to find them around, okay, whether it's a Chamber of Commerce, a BNI, a Toastmasters or whatever a women in business, there's a billion groups out there. All you have to do is make Google or DuckDuckGo your best friends and then you can find your lists of live groups that most of the time they're gonna be hybrid on Zoom and live if they're doing live.  09:30 I love the energy and the feel of meeting people in person and oftentimes you'll find that when you do meet people in person, there's no one in that room that does what you do, because what we do is very unique and a lot of times we have to educate the people on what a voiceover talent actually is. They don't even know what a VO really does. So it gives you an opportunity to practice a pitch, to practice a handshake, to practice a live networking in a room, to practice putting on your face, your clothing, your whatever right.  10:03 - Anne (Host) It's different than being in a booth Very very different and it's also different from sending an email, because you get that physical presence, that energy, there's a synergy to it and you're gonna be a lot more memorable.  10:15 And again, I think it's a combination of all of these things that we're talking about that can be effective marketing.  10:19 But absolutely I don't think there's any dispute over the fact that face-to-face networking can really generate relationships that can get you hired. I was thinking about relationships the other day because I just had headshots taken by my photographer, who I've worked with for 10 years, and I realized that we have such a great relationship. Like she knows me so well, she's able to capture my very best so that I can actually promote my business and I can promote myself in the very best light. And I feel as though your relationship building in those face-to-face networking can really help you to become memorable to someone and while they may not need your services, they might know somebody that will, and then you can come highly recommended. And word of mouth I think there's no better marketing than word of mouth. Oh, I have this wonderful talent here that I think will be perfect for your next campaign. You should hire them and a lot of times those are the best types of referrals to get, because then you don't have to audition your butt off for them.  11:18 And essentially, that's just a wonderful way to acquire work.  11:22 - Lau (Guest) I think that's terrific and listen, call it old school, but I'm a big fan of live. I think when you live whether you're on Zoom in real time or whether you're in a room with someone it has a whole different stress level and pressure that we need to perform. That you're just not gonna get in crafting an email, you're not gonna get in submitting your website, you're just not gonna get it. That's much more at your leisure, right. But when you're in person with someone, you have to think about what. If I only have five minutes with that person, what do I want to do for them? What is it about their business? How can I help them?  11:58 Okay, so, I have to educate them on what I do oftentimes, but how does it benefit them? Because that's why they're standing there. They're standing there to meet you, not because you're so fabulous, but because what you do is potentially what they need. So it's up to us to figure out well, how do I apply what I do to your particular industry? Therefore, you have to do your research, right? You gotta go on your websites. You gotta go on the YouTube chAnnel, look at the advertising campaigns. You gotta go in their literature and take a look at what they're doing. I also wAnnea suggest that you open up you were saying this earlier and I loved it open up your possibilities of the kinds of work that you can do, the genres of work you can do?  12:41 - Anne (Host) Oh, absolutely. You just segued so nicely into that, Because the other thing was that I just had a student who said you know, I've been doing this for a year and I can't seem to get anything booked. I can't get any work. And I said what have you been auditioning for? And they said commercials. And I went well, tell me, do you have other demos? Do you have other places, other things you're auditioning for? No, just commercials. And I said well, that's part of it.  13:05 You have to understand that the market for commercials well, it's probably one of the most popular market for new people to get into or want to get into. What you don't understand is that the commercial markets maybe only 5 to 10% of what's out there. Right, there's a big part of that which is narration, it's corporate narration, it's e-learning, it's medical narration. It's like 80% of the market, is that? And so if you're only restricting yourself to one specialty, to one genre, then yeah, Also, we just did an episode on transformation, right? This is where you might want to now expand your offerings, right, Get yourself coaching in a genre in a market space that is plentiful, such as corporate or corporate training, and that can really open up your possibilities.  13:51 - Lau (Guest) It's also one of the most highly sought after and competitive varies of the industry, the commercial industry, you know like 100% of the people that are swimming with you are out for commercial and want to do commercial work. So you just have to be realistic about that.  14:08 - Anne (Host) I'm going to just say, bosses, get over the fact that corporate narration or e-learning isn't glamorous. Just get over that, because, honestly, you've got a business to run. And I'm just going to say that most people are like, well, I want the national spot, or I want to do the next animated series, or I want to do that video game. But here's the deal. Probably everybody I know, whether they're an animation specialist or do promos they also do corporate narration, they also do e-learning. They just don't talk about it. It's not as glamorous, but I'll tell you what it's the bread and butter for a lot of people out there in the industry.  14:42 - Lau (Guest) Absolutely it is. And remember, I mean I can speak as an agent having a base and I'll tell you that I don't know anyone in that roster that only does commercial work. I mean, I think it's a little delicious part of the toast on the bread, but they have a lot of other spreads they're putting on that bread and not just for the money's sake, but also they're multi-talented. They have a lot to offer. They have a lot of different. They might be producing an animation pilot and doing audio book.  15:11 - Anne (Host) Right, exactly, e-learning thing, exactly. And how many people Lau? May I ask as a talent agent and I know as a casting director, how many people do you know book a national spot every day or book a commercial, even a commercial every day?  15:24 - Lau (Guest) No, not at all. Some won't book for six months to a year Exactly, and those could be super talented people too that get national spots.  15:32 - Anne (Host) They're not going to book a national spot every day. They might book one a month, one every two months, once every six months, and the rest of what they do is a smattering of other genres and a smattering of other projects. So really try to expand. And again, this is not where, oh, I want to do everything. I am the voice talent that is doing everything. However, the other options that you offer for clients should be well thought out. You should be trained in the genres so that you can really understand the most effective way, the most effective read, the most effective techniques, and that includes not just performance but also marketing for the market it does.  16:09 - Lau (Guest) It does, and diversifying what you're doing is a really, really smart thing. I hear a lot of newer talent what I call newer talent in the first three years of their business, talking about niching in and niching down and choosing something specific, and I said you don't even know what your business is, yet you don't even know what you like. You don't even know how people hear you, yet They've not even explored the other genres.  16:32 - Anne (Host) And that's another thing. When you talk about brand evolution and how you evolve, or how do you find out, like, what you're good at right? Unless you try it, unless you audition for it, unless you train a little bit in it, and you can. I mean, I found a passion in medical. Now, of course, I worked in the medical industry, but did I think about going into medical narration right away? No, I didn't.  16:52 I was all enamored with commercial and I thought, oh, I'm just going to do a bunch of commercial work. And that was just me being new way back when, not understanding right, not understanding the business and all the different genres. But ultimately I started saying, well, I can't, I'm not getting any work commercially right away, or I only get very few jobs. So I need to do something else, otherwise I'm going to have to go back to work, I'm going to have to go back to corporate and I did not want to do that. So really thinking about how you can expand your offering, so marketing number one, and then expand your offering.  17:27 And then I'm going to talk about, I think, the third thing, and that would be performance skills, right, and we even had a whole episode dedicated to this bosses about how sometimes talent think they're actually better than they are and they really could use some performance coaching to make their reads more competitive. No doubt about it. You know this is an agent Lau, probably every single day, right, and I do it when I cast and when we do our audition demolitions. We hear a lot of people auditioning and I think to myself there's a lot of people who could really utilize some specific one-on-one coaching or more workshops.  18:07 - Lau (Guest) No doubt, Anneie, no doubt, and I'll tell you what I'm hearing over and over again with submissions that are coming in that are looking for representation in the roster, is the fact that they sound like the tool of their voice is strong and it's beautiful and they seem like very nice people, at least on paper, but they either do not have the skill set just yet to where they would need to be competitive in a commercial market.  18:31 Yes, absolutely, and I'm really speaking about a real read, understanding what a real read is, how that happens the mechanics of how that happened.  18:40 I've even been sending out notices to people. Instead of saying, ok, you're not a good fit right now and they're sending me demos, I said, can you just send me a couple, just a couple dry reads of you doing your most natural read and they'll send it to me and it's authentically a Anneouncer, authentically, absolutely and authentically all of that stuff. So already I know they don't really know what it is, they're not sure what it is.  19:05 - Anne (Host) And you know right away as a casting director, as a talent agent and so yeah, also, guys, we don't need to hear that over and over again If we listen to it and we say, oh, you don't have it yet we know you don't have it and we're probably not going to ask you, we're not going to refer you, you're probably not going to get it until you do have those skills. And it's so interesting to me the students that come to me that just, they want to hurry up and get their demo done and they don't want to do the work they don't want to do a rush.  19:31 They're in a big rush. They don't want to do the work to figure out. What does it take to be an actor? And especially, I see it all the time with corporate e-learning and what people typically assume to be like I just want to teach e-learning or I just want to speak corporate. I hear the corporate this way all the time and again, you need to be the actor, and even more so with longer format stuff. You just do.  19:54 - Lau (Guest) Yeah, and inevitably yeah when you hear someone say how much money will I make? Or I'm quitting my job and I'm coming into this so that I can make money and do what I love, and yet, and yet.  20:07 - Anne (Host) The first question is you don't want to put the work in.  20:09 - Lau (Guest) Yeah, and ironically, the first question is will I make money and when will that happen? Yeah, well, if it's something you really love, the first question will be I'm excited about what you're providing here. Can you talk to me more about what the process is like or what the clients are like or no? If it's money first, I say you know you're asking the wrong question. I have to tell you you're not in a position yet to ask that question.  20:31 - Anne (Host) I'm not in a position to answer that question and I'll tell you that I offer consults to people and I will have so many people and I know that there are many people, many coaches, that offer consults, that offer the free consults and people will just say, yeah, well, I'm a singer and I'm a theater actor and I already have a studio at home and I can make my own demo. So you'll get those people that are not aware and you know, it's just one of those things I will always say look, I'm not going to put on any rose colored glasses here and I'm going to tell you exactly. Here's the story. It's difficult.  21:01 Even though you already do theater acting, even though you're a singer, even though you've got the equipment already, you've got the studio competitively, it takes some time because there is a difference. Obviously there's a big difference between theater acting, on-camera acting and voice acting, and most the time it's assumed that voice acting oh, it's just simple, I can read pretty, I've got a great voice, and again, it's just the same old story. But yep, literally it's. You don't know what, you don't know, you don't know. It's okay, I mean, I think this is a journey of education, but if you are really frustrated, if you have not been booking for a year or however long, if you're frustrated.  21:42 I want you to look at these three things, right marketing, look at your marketing. Look at your offerings. What you're offering, make sure that it's something that people want out there. Right, you can be a great character actor, but your market is smaller than, let's say, a corporate narration specialist right, and it's a whole lot more competitive. Your national market commercial is a whole lot more competitive than an e-learning module. So, understand your markets, understand who you're selling to and then, of course, take a hard look.  22:14 - Lau (Guest) Take an honest, honest look at your performance and how can you improve that yes, yes, be honest with yourself and develop what we call the hustle muscle. You need a hustle muscle so that you understand I'm not waiting for work. The newer ideology is don't work harder, work smarter. And I say, okay, work smarter, but work harder, yeah. Yeah. Smarter doesn't take the place of harder.  22:38 - Anne (Host) You have to grind and working smarter means you realize that you probably need more skills right. And working smarter means, oh, you probably need to expand your offerings. Working smarter means yes you understand marketing better right and you understand what people are looking for, and why didn't you get picked? Or why didn't that person respond? Well, that's just. They don't have a need for you, right?  23:01 - Lau (Guest) now, right right and look at, look at some of your idols. If you have an idol the gurus that are out there in the world pick someone that you really respect, that you follow. Maybe you read their books, maybe you go to their webinars, maybe you follow them. You know, just popped into my head I saw him on a network tv last night was tony robin. Some people adore him and some people don't follow him, but the one thing about him and his brand that's last at a hundred thousand years.  23:27 - Anne (Host) Right, he's been around forever is.  23:29 - Lau (Guest) He's a grinder, he is a hard-working person and he's had his tentacles in everything. He was in Hollywood, he had little bit parts in movies, he was on the conference circuit, he did a. What didn't he do? And now I don't know how old he is. He's got to be 60. At least he looks fantastic, by the way, he looks amazing and he's out there. He's got a new summit and he's got a new book and he's got it and he's very wealthy. Let's be honest, he's a multi-millionaire. But it's really the joy, the excitement, the challenge and the energy of moving forward.  24:05 - Anne (Host) That's what he sells his motivation right, he sells, he's motivating, he's motivating, he's inspiring and so, yeah, you better believe he's got that muscle developed. So absolutely, and people want that, right, but it's what you were saying.  24:17 - Lau (Guest) Anneie, it's exactly what you were saying. If I'm not moving, if I'm not doing, then I'm static, I'm stagnating. And I always have to bring it back to myself and saying well, if I'm not getting enough work or if I'm not booking, what can I do? Don't ask the question what am I doing wrong? That's not the right question to ask. Ask the question what can I be doing to strategize, work harder and smarter and make better use of my work days so that I can be putting myself into new leads, into new situations? And also here's another one for you. I got a bonus one for you you should be producing, you should be self-producing projects at all times, whether it's a little whatever, a little web series or a little YouTube commercial.  25:01 For your business or an adult Sure that'll help you to market, right, I mean, and it's exciting because you can get your friends and colleagues involved you can maybe pay someone a couple bucks to help you edit it or whatever. Incorporate work, work breeds work, at all times so that you feel like, wow, I'm creating, I'm creating to be creative and also to breed work.  25:21 - Anne (Host) Absolutely good advice. Wow, all right, yet another, I think, very empowering episode for the bosses out there and bosses so just really sit down, take a hard look at what you're doing now and, if the bosses can be of any assistance, we are here to help you guys. Also, take a moment to imagine a world full of passionate, empowered, diverse individuals such as yourself giving collectively and intentionally to create the world that they want to see. Find out more at visiting 100voiceswhocareorg. And our shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl you too can connect and network like a boss. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Thanks so much, guys. Have a wonderful week and we'll see you next week. See you next week.  26:10 - Intro (Anneouncement) Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host and Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.  26:38 - Anne (Host) Hey La, do you know what time of year it is? It is time for the audition demolition holiday Bosses. We are so excited for this episode. Why can't I just do this? Sorry, let's try that one, okay, movers.   

In this episode Anne Ganguzza and Lau Lapides discuss health and business transformations, sharing personal journeys and business changes. Together, The BOSSES dissect the essence of finding a compelling 'why' to fuel profound changes and prevent old habits from creeping back. They navigate the intricate process of embracing a new identity after such shifts. The conversation takes you through the peaks and valleys of goal setting and the importance of evolving these goals to sidestep complacency and promote growth. Whether you're toasting to recent victories or charting the course for your next big achievement in voiceover or other business ventures, this talk is peppered with inspiration. Tune in and let the shared experiences and guiding wisdom propel you toward seizing new opportunities and savoring the ascent to success and fulfillment. 00:01 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a V-O boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:19 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the V-O Boss podcast and the Boss Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza. I'm here with the lovely Lau Lapides, my very special boss co-host. How are you, annie? I'm doing amazing, Lau, I'm doing amazing. How about yourself?  00:39 Wonderful, amazing as well Good, you know Lau. I've been thinking about this a lot. I mean, for me, I have gone through a little bit of a transformation over the past few months Actually, I would say year and a half. Physical transformation, because I've been trying to get healthy. I lost a little bit of weight and I was thinking about in terms of wanting to transform my habits or what I do on a day-to-day basis and transform and evolve into something that can really move me forward and progress.  01:12 I thought that we can also apply the same kind of transformation thoughts, mentality, rules maybe not rules, but strategies for our own businesses. I thought it would be a good time to talk about transformation and transforming our VO businesses, because I think it's something that it's the beginning of the year. I think it's always a good time to think about. Everybody talks about New Year's resolutions, but I don't want to talk about resolutions. I want to talk about transformation and how you can assess if your business needs to transform, if you need to evolve, and what it would look like for you to set a course or a strategy on how to transform your business, because I think our markets have shifted Lau and we need to really evaluate that and transform our businesses to evolve along with them.  02:02 - Lau (Guest) Well, that's amazing stuff. I love talking about transformation and I can't help but bringing up the fabulous frog, because the frog in Eastern culture is a representative as symbolic of transformation when you think about leaping forward. And, by the way fun fact, I'm sure everyone kind of knows this, but this is leap year, which means in the leap year calendar, you have an extra day in this year for your leaping, for your transformation, for the new calendar and thinking about wow, what am I going to do in that extra 24 hours? Right, but I mean what you have done in terms of your physical, your mental, your spiritual transformation is nothing short of like miraculous, amazing.  02:50 - Anne (Host) Now here's the question.  02:52 - Lau (Guest) Here's the question what do we do once we are transformed into something else? There's a great question. Right and how do we acclimate to that? How do we that's a wonderful question Assimilate with that, how do we, in essence, blend into the form that we want to be and, all of a sudden, are becoming Sure Now we're a new entity, right?  03:15 - Anne (Host) Yeah Well, first of all, I want to say thank you for that. I really appreciate that. One thing I will say, and I want to stress this to you bosses out there, that transformation doesn't happen overnight. Very rarely does it happen overnight.  03:28 And I will say that my transformation, my physical transformation to better health, literally was a journey, and I really had to make sure that I gave myself grace and patience with myself in order to be able to transform. And I know that, gosh, we've been in business for so long and we've been transforming our businesses for years now, and I do know that it's not a simple nor a quick process. And so I want you bosses out there to give yourself some grace and to kind of be prepared and enjoy the journey as you evolve and transform and go through it. And, yes, law, one of the biggest questions is once you have transformed, how is it that you will maintain consistency or continue to progress or continue to keep moving forward, if you want to, with that transformation? And I will tell you that for me physically because this is multiple times I've kind of been there and gotten healthy and lost weight, and so I think this time it means a little bit more to me, I think there's always that what is your why, right, what is your why? Why do you want to transform? Well, I want to be a successful voiceover artist. Well, I want to be healthy. Well, I want whatever it is that you are looking to transform.  04:44 Your why is so very important and that why can evolve over time as you are transforming, right, that why can change and I think, depending on the importance of that why to you, right, that really becomes a catalyst for being able to sustain that transformation and to make sure that it's something that is moving forward. You're not going to let necessarily, let's say, slip back into bad habits or slip back into the things that will not move yourself forward. And I am the first to tell you that I am terrified, terrified of slipping back into old habits, right, I do not want. Health wise, I do not want to slip back. Business wise, I do not want my business to go backwards, and so that, right, there is a great motivator for me to figure out ways and strategies to actually maintain and or move forward from that. So I think really understanding your purpose and your why for the transformation is key.  05:45 - Lau (Guest) So here's the question, the million dollar question what is or what was your why?  05:53 - Anne (Host) Oh.  05:53 - Lau (Guest) Annie, for doing what you did in this major transformation, powerful stage that you've been in and still are in in your process and your progress. What was this last? Why?  06:08 - Anne (Host) for you. Well, that's really a good question. So if we're talking about my health transformation, I will say that it was an eye-opener from my doctor who said Anne, you are at stroke level high blood pressure and I want you to get some blood work done. And that's just the simple facts of it which just literally scared me straight into getting blood work done. And that blood work was not good.  06:33 And as a result of that blood work, I was then diagnosed with some other health issues which then I was prescribed lots and lots of medication for. It scared me and I thought, after having been through and people know my cancer journey, I thought I'm invincible, right? Well, no, no, I had kind of slipped into some habits. There was lots of reasons. I don't want to say that all of them were excuses for poor habits. I mean, some of them were just consequences of medication, but ultimately that was a priority that my why all of a sudden became like, well, goodness, like I beat cancer. I certainly don't want this new revelation of these new health issues to take anything away from me that.  07:13 I worked so hard to build in the first place, and so that kind of just woke me up right, and I think we all kind of tend to get into those things. I know there's many, many people that are either trying to get healthy on a weight loss journey that will slip back. They lost weight, they slip back, and then they're like oh, and they beat themselves up. But I think that things evolve, as we were talking about right, your why evolves, your reasons evolve, and I think you always need to keep an eye on that and you need to really, if you want to make that change and that transformation, you have to really keep your eye on that. Why write it down and really understand what now is the strategy, what are the consequences if you're not going to be making those changes?  07:57 - Lau (Guest) And really understand that if you are serious about transformation in your business, in your life, in your inner world, your inner being one has to have discipline. You talk about habits and rituals and routines and patterns, and so do I and the importance of that, the success of people that can stay with a successful discipline, a habit, and even if you fall off sometimes the frog does fall off the lily pad and gets wet and then has to come back- on.  08:27 That's okay, but are you moving forward? Are you moving backwards and really keeping track of that, whether it's goal setting, whether it's just about your inspirations for the year, or whether it is something as grave as oh, this is very serious for my health. I almost have no choice. I have to move in that direction or I'm compelled to move in that direction.  08:47 - Anne (Host) Absolutely.  08:48 - Lau (Guest) Understanding like prioritizing. What transformations do I want to have? Will I prioritize those? Because you and I meet so many talent that they want to do 12,000 things.  09:01 - Anne (Host) Oh, yeah, absolutely.  09:03 - Lau (Guest) They want to transform everything in one day, all at once, and you and I know it's just not possible to do all at once. It really isn't. The day isn't long enough and our life isn't long enough. So, really understanding, like what is most important, where is that going to get me? What is my end game in that? Sure See, it's really. I think and I speak personally as well, because I'm a creative too, I'm an artist too. It's easy to fantasize, it's exciting to dream and get inspired, but then sometimes we fall off the cliff on the other end, because there is no real end game to some of those dreams. They just feel really good in the making.  09:42 - Anne (Host) Or it feels good in the dreaming law, right.  09:44 - Intro (Announcement) Yes, you know what I mean, and so, but when it?  09:46 - Anne (Host) comes time to putting it into action. I think that's where most people they're really looking for. How do I get motivated? How?  09:54 - Lau (Guest) do I Right and that really becomes that.  09:56 - Anne (Host) Why that priority? It's almost like you're clawing your way sometimes to get that motivation, because you don't think that for 2 and 1 half years or three years, during that pandemic, I wasn't commiserating, saying oh my gosh, I'm not feeling good, or you know what I mean. I feel like I'm so busy but I don't have time to take care of myself or my health. And really you have to be able to somehow find that motivation to start the climb. And it is a climb and it's not more than likely. It's not an easy climb. The dreaming is the easy part.  10:29 And I like how you said inspirations instead of resolutions, right, because resolutions, a lot of times people get dejected from the beginning because they make a resolution and after the first week of the new year they're like yes, I'm going to go to the gym and I'm going to work out and literally that's just been something. And it's interesting because now that I've gotten healthier, now I'm on that mad terrified like, oh my gosh, I've got to maintain it. So now I'm physically working out every day, right, and the only time I have to do it is early in the morning. So literally I am like at 7 AM, sometimes 6, 30 AM and I don't, I'm tired and I literally I get on that machine or I go to Pilates and I'm like I am so tired, I almost feel sick. You know what I mean? That's how tired I am, I can't. But I push myself through it and usually you get through that lactose, burning through that lactose, and then you'll start to feel better.  11:18 But before you start getting better, boy, there's a lot of pain and it's hard. I don't want to do it. I don't want to do it.  11:25 - Lau (Guest) But isn't that a great metaphor for exactly what we do in our industry is that we want to reach that zenith. We all want to reach the apex of whatever we're doing.  11:34 - Anne (Host) The first thing I thought of we want that. Yes, we want every day. We want to get work for commercial work.  11:39 - Lau (Guest) Yeah, exactly the first thing I thought of was a film I just saw about the Andes Mountains and I thought of a huge mountain like the Andes and how impossible it is to climb it. And we want to be right up on that little sliver, right up on that vista, that we can walk on the absolute top, and we say, I want to get there, that's my dream. But rather, what are the plateaus, what are the places that we have to get to in order to make it up there? And there are many stopping points, there are many resting points, there are many points where you're going to slide down, you're going to fall, you're going to roll over, you're going to stumble. And, really understanding, in order for me to get to that zenith, I have to think through and have almost a mapology of all the sticking points that could happen and how I'm going to deal with them when they happen, not if they happen, but when they happen because they will happen.  12:32 - Anne (Host) What's also I was thinking about in terms of inspiration? Right, because I thought, oh, have I reached my goal? Have I reached the place where I want to be? Have I reached the apex? No, I have to keep moving that apex Now. Does it have to be upward? I like to think it's moving upward, but I'm going to say it's moving in a positive direction, so I'm not going to lose 100 more pounds.  12:50 - Lau (Guest) Do you know what I mean?  12:51 - Anne (Host) But no, what am I going to do? Well then, maybe I okay. So now my goal has shifted right. My transformation goal has shifted, especially, let's say, in our voice ever business right? Oh, I want to do national spots, or I want to be in animation and I want to be on Cartoon Network or whatever. Your goal is right so you can have that apex. But again, where are those places that are going to get you there? And then, let's say, you ultimately get to the apex and you get that national. You get that. What are you going to do? Are you going to sit there? I'm going to say complacent in that, of course, I'm not saying you shouldn't celebrate that but I also feel as though you need to be continually evolving and moving that goal to continue transformation or continue growth.  13:35 I've always said this multiple times in the podcast, that the death of me is when I feel stagnant, when I am not changing anything, when I'm not doing anything. So in voiceover, maybe you can explore a new genre. You can work with a different coach. There are so many different things you can do. Take an improv class, right. Work up the relationship with your agent, right, like there's so many things that you can do. Yes, and what do?  13:59 - Lau (Guest) you do with the prize, with the celebration once you have it, once you get it. I once had an acting professor in grad school who talked about that. He said you know, once I reached where I wanted to reach, I got incredibly depressed. I got severely, clinically depressed. Yeah, because I reached it. I said that what else is there? Right, right? And I said there's no place but down from here. Well, we had smart colleagues that said you're wrong, your perspective is wrong. Now you need to reach the next level of where you're headed next. And remember you're not just headed north, you can go east you can go, west you can go diagonal right you can pivot in different directions.  14:38 The meter diver is going to go down south, so it's really about how you open up that framework for yourself.  14:44 I like that I like that Of success, and when you do reach a success, take the time, celebrate it. Yes, do something with it to make it real for yourself, make it count, make it something that you can apply to life, because you're going to want to move on to something else and you don't want to forget about that. You don't want to imagine that that never happened. Have you ever felt that way? I've had that many times where I've achieved exactly what I wanted to, oh yeah, and then by next week I forgot.  15:08 - Anne (Host) I did it. I forgot Exactly. You need to always celebrate that, and you're so right because I'm literally, I'm not quite at my goal right, but I'm pretty much at my goal right, and I'm like, oh gosh, now what, right, now what. And so, in reality, I needed to make a new goal. And so now I have a new goal. And now my new goal is well, okay, maybe health wise, I'm good.  15:28 I got most of my medications are. Now, you know, I don't need to take them anymore. Now I just I need to build up some muscle. This is just physically right. I need to build up muscle. So I don't have any muscle.  15:38 I got a lot of that weight had to go somewhere in my skin, said what, what, where did my skin go? It didn't disappear. So so I need to bulk up a little bit, and I love that, because I didn't feel depressed. I thought, oh God, I've done everything. And everybody says be proud and I am proud.  15:54 But I also was like, oh God, well, what do I do now? And so therefore, I will say to you law, I'm so glad you said that, because everybody that knows me knows I have all the different divisions of my business right and I always say well, it's because I can't be stagnant and I don't want to be bored. And so I decided, well, let's open up another brand, right? So I've got another brand, and people are like I don't understand how you do it. And I'm like, well, literally, I am one person, I have so many hours in the day, right, and so, yeah, am I doing a lot? Sure, but I also hire a lot of people too that can help me, right, and they're helping me to get to my transformation and my goals, and that is the way that I can do that.  16:32 - Lau (Guest) And so again keep setting goals, keep setting.  16:35 - Anne (Host) And you're right, you can go east, you can go west, you can even go south, but I think you always need to continually grow.  16:42 - Lau (Guest) That's right. And just remember with transformation comes change, and it sounds like well, obviously, but change is something that frightens us oftentimes because we like control and we like to know exactly who we are and what's coming next. So when you welcome transformation, you welcome change, and when you welcome change, you welcome the unknowing at times. So just keep that in your mindset.  17:06 - Anne (Host) And I think also there's something to ask yourself too is to really be truthful with yourself. Are you fearful of not just failure, but are you fearful of success? What will happen when you get to that successful level and that, of course, you know part of the fear of the unknown right? What will happen now that you're successful with that? Success may come like a whole new series of maybe problems or issues or things that you'll need to think about or deal with that you have not ever experienced before, and that is scary, yeah very scary.  17:39 - Lau (Guest) So as wonderful as it is and as much as we're going after it and chasing after it, we have to know that there's also a fear factor involved with transformation. And I say recognize the fear and do it anyway.  17:51 - Anne (Host) Yeah, just lean into it. I think really don't run away from it. Lean into it and just know that it's scary, no matter what.  17:59 - Lau (Guest) It's scary.  18:00 - Anne (Host) It's scary for all of us, really, and you're not alone. You are not alone, and I think that one of the reasons why I love this podcast is that we can talk about topics like this, so that people don't feel alone, because, again, we are in such an isolated business and you're an entrepreneur, and so, therefore, there are many things that are scary being an entrepreneur because it's so funny because, having come from corporate right where I was told what to do here, here's your job, this is what you do, and if you want to advance, this is what you do. And that was it. It was easy. I could take instruction. It's kind of like taking direction right.  18:35 But, as entrepreneurs, when we're trying to move forward and transform and evolve, where are we evolving to? What are we transforming to? Well, I know that. Let's just say I've had a lot of frustrated students who will say to me I've not been able to book work right, and so I've been here for a year and I've not been successful, and my loved ones are asking me what's going on and I feel like a failure, I feel like I'm not successful, I need to do something, and so I think that really, it could be a why right All of a sudden, if something's not working for you, right, that could be a good why to propel yourself to make a transformation.  19:14 Now, again, as I would always say, as being the teacher, right, educate, educate yourself. If you don't know where to go, you can ask a trusted colleague, ask a trusted coach. What do you think I should do? Where should I go? What do you think is next? Read up on the industry. I think that's another really helpful tip is read up on the industry and understand what the trends are, understand what's happening culturally in the world and in the market. Right, in the global market, because and I think we talked about this in one of our previous episodes right, that will dictate what are your buyers looking for? Right, how are you going to transform your business so that it can be something that will serve, right, the market and serve the buyers?  19:56 - Lau (Guest) Absolutely, absolutely. Do your homework, because it's not easy to transform. It takes a lot of work, a lot of research, a lot of homework, a lot of practice and then, all of a sudden, before you know it, you've turned into something else and hopefully it's in the direction of where you want to be. On behalf of your whole audience, you know, I thank you for being an amazing, transformational, super beautiful frog. Thank you, I appreciate that, and you as well we are all frogs.  20:25 - Anne (Host) Right, we are all frogs, we are, we are all frogs, and so I think that it's inspiring and it's motivational and it's exciting. I like to always embrace challenges and I try to embrace fear. It doesn't make me feel any more confident I have. So many people are like you're so confident. I'm like, well, okay, I put it on a good show, don't I? But I always like to look at things with positivity and I realize that if it doesn't work out the way that I think right and maybe it didn't work out I always say, well, look look at what I learned. Like, how cool is that? Absolutely Turn that into something good. You have to love the leap, yeah yeah, love the leap, love the leap.  21:04 And it's funny because when you first started talking about the frog, I was thinking, oh yeah, because frogs. Well, tadpoles, right, I mean gosh. When I was young I used to like I love little polywogs, polywogs that turned into tadpoles, that turned into frogs, and literally I mean look at them, look at how they grew. Look at how they grew. Yeah, they're incredible Caterpillars that blossom into butterflies. That transformation. So, bosses, we have complete faith, complete faith in your ability to transform yourselves, transform your business. And transformation doesn't just have to be business For my health, that's affected. My business, right, everything personally. We talk about how personal this business is. Everything that affects me personally affects my business too, Absolutely.  21:47 - Lau (Guest) You can't separate the two, because you need your energy, your focus, your mindset, your health. You need everything working in tandem to make that transformation happen. So take care of your inners before you take care of your outers. There you go.  22:00 - Anne (Host) I love it, guys, and we have all the faith in the world that you can transform Great conversation, laugh. Thank you so much, my pleasure.  22:08 Bosses, here's your chance to use your voice to not only transform, but to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. Visit 100voiceswhocareorg to commit and big shout out to IPDTL, our sponsor. We love IPDTL. It allows me to connect with law and my clients every single day and I love that relationship. I love the building of the relationships with my clients and with law. So you guys, visit IPDTLcom to find out more. Have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.  22:46 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host and Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

The BOSSES discuss how to embrace the intricacies of your finances as owners of your voiceover business. As tax season approaches, they delve into self-employment, discussing how different business structures, such as S-Corps and DBAs, can significantly impact your taxation and payment schedule. They also examine the emotional factors that can influence your approach to money management, taking into account personal backgrounds and societal pressures.  Health insurance options are also discussed, from leveraging a spouse's plan to state programs. The BOSSES also explore the merits of keeping distinct business bank accounts and utilizing tools such as Health Savings Accounts and business credit cards. Whether you're a spreadsheet enthusiast or a QuickBooks aficionado, they provide insights on tracking transactions, automating invoicing, and the smart utilization of business credit cards for cashback rewards. 00:01 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a V-O boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:19 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the V-O Boss podcast and the Real Bosses series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, Again back with the amazing Tom Dheere. Tom, I'm so excited to talk to you today.  00:33 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Yay, always glad to hang out with you.  00:36 - Anne (Host) Except I don't have such a fun topic to talk to you about today, tom, oh no. Well, my accountant. The other day she sent me an email saying well, anne, I'm going to be taking out thousands of dollars for your free payment, for your taxes, for your S-Corp. As April is coming along here, I thought we should probably talk about finances, and I know it's not everybody's favorite topic and I've talked about this before, but I think, getting closer to tax time, it's important for us to have an intelligent discussion right and talk about why it's so important, bosses, for you to have some financial intelligence surrounding your business, and I think, tom, you're going to be the best source of information for this. So let's talk about financial intelligence. What does that mean?  01:25 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Okay, I derive my understanding of financial intelligence versus emotional intelligence from Robert Kiyosaki rich dad poor dad books. If you've never read rich dad poor dad, it is a must read for people who are self-employed in general, and it's really great for voice actors in particular, because it talks about making decisions based on feelings versus making decisions based on facts, and part of my philosophy is that everybody has their own weird relationship with money.  01:55 - Anne (Host) A lot of people are afraid of it. That's a polite way of saying it. It's a weird relationship with money.  02:01 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Yeah, Well, yeah, because some people are terrified of it. Yeah, some people covet it, some people hate it, and a lot of that is influenced by you, but it's also influenced by what your parents taught you or didn't teach you about money, or your culture, or your home or your school or your friends kind of taught you what your relationship with money is, not necessarily what it should be. So, as the VO strategist, there's a lot of grown-up poopy stuff that I talk about.  02:28 - Anne (Host) You made me snort, sorry Sorry.  02:30 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Or maybe I should do them more over there. That was pretty funny. What I mean by that is that a lot of people try to get into the voiceover industry to get away from the grown-up poopy stuff, and what they find is that they have to do all that stuff too, yeah, but they don't know how to do it. No one has told them how to do it, or when to do it, or where to do it, or why to do it, nor being held accountable for it. And the financial literacy is a huge component of that. Yeah, understand the difference between how employees get paid versus how managers get paid, versus how self-employed people get paid, and how they get taxed is very, very different. Yes, and can I just interject really quickly?  03:12 - Anne (Host) I said my accountant right, and of course, I always talk about my accountant and how wonderful it was one of the best decisions I ever made for my business. However, even though I have an accountant, I need to be able to direct my accountant and understand what my accountant is saying. So, yes, I need to be financially literate, I need to understand what's important, I need to understand how things operate, and she can be part of my education. She can talk to me about that. But also it's definitely upon myself to be educated and smart, because if you're going to have someone helping you with your financials, then you want to make sure that you've got the right person.  03:48 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Yes, and there's a lot of ways to do that. There's a website. I'll have to find it. I'll give you the link. I think it's the AEA or AEE or it's like the American Association of Accountants or something like that, and you can do a search based on where you live and what kind of financial advisor you need help with. So there are CPAs certified public accounts who specialize in working with people who are self-employed. So because the way that someone who's self-employed files their taxes, because the way they get paid what tax, if tax is withheld, what tax is withheld, how it is withheld and all of the expenses that you can write off in deductions that you can make is completely different from a person who has one nine to five job, who gets a paycheck every 14 days and gets one W-2 in the mail every year and you take the standard deduction and you're done.  04:33 - Anne (Host) Now I have a bunch of different information right At the end of the year that if I'm paying people I need to provide or I get a bunch of information depending on how much money I've made from different clients I will get a bunch of different pieces of information that are important for my taxes, and I will also mention that, having been a DBA prior to an S-Corp, right, things are different now that I'm an S-Corp.  04:54 I mean, I used to, as a DBA, I would quarterly make an estimate on my taxes and pay it, but now I have to pay myself a salary, and so that is also different and I have different paperwork to file. I'm gonna say the S-Corp saved me a whole lot of my taxes. And again, what's the difference, right, between the different types of businesses and how can they help me when tax season comes about and how can they help save me money? And so, while I am saving money with an S-Corp versus my DBA, because of the amount of money that I'm making, it also becomes more time consuming on my part because I've got more paperwork to fill out, more things to mail in, and I've constantly, for whatever reason, the government is always coming back to me saying, hey, you owe us $13. No, I don't, because there was a number that was reported incorrectly.  05:40 And I'm not always getting it, but it certainly happens a little bit more than when I was working for a company and just had one piece of paperwork to file at the end of the year.  05:48 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Your VO bosses may be freaking out a little bit right now, but I wanna put them at ease. The question is should you incorporate or should you form an LLC, or should you stay self-employed? The answer is different, for everybody. Just because Anne is an S-Corp doesn't mean she advocates that everybody should be an S-Corp.  06:06 - Anne (Host) Yeah, absolutely, Because you all live in different right, Right exactly.  06:12 - Tom Dheere (Guest) And that has a huge effect because different states have different incorporation laws. So what benefits her living in California and forming an S-Corp? May not be good for me in New York forming an S-Corp. So that's why you need to have a living breathing CPA, not filing it via QuickBooks or stuff. You need to have a human.  06:33 - Anne (Host) And I'm gonna say yeah, and not just once a year for taxes. I really highly recommend some sort of an advisor. Now your accountant doesn't have to tell you what kind of business, but mine did because she was very familiar with working with people who are self-employed. So that helped a lot, tom. What do you recommend for people who don't have a clue, like what sort of company should they form?  06:55 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Right, okay, talk to. Well, not all. And to your point, not all CPAs are financial advisors and not all financial advisors are CPAs, right? So if you are gonna have a conversation with someone about it, I would strongly recommend you find in your state a certified fiduciary, that's a person who has literally taken an oath and certified that they will give you financial advice that is in your best interest. This is why you should not walk into some national franchise bank looking for financial advice, because there's always some guy or girl sitting in the corner at a desk who don't care if you are penniless when you retire, they're gonna try to sell you the retirement packages that will give them the best commissions. So I say, stay as far away from them as you can. Go to your credit union also. They may be able to help you. Your credit union is more of a vested interest in your financial wellbeing too.  07:49 - Anne (Host) I just caught you saying I'm gonna sell you a retirement package. Now, that's something that most voice artists, right? If you're working for yourself and self-employed, you're not even really thinking about, right? That's in addition to registering your business, paying yourself a salary or whatever it is that you're going to do. Are you going to incorporate? Are you going to be a DBA? There's also other things like retirement funds and healthcare, right and so?  08:13 - Tom Dheere (Guest) That's a whole other thing too.  08:14 - Anne (Host) Let's talk about that for a moment, Tom Sure.  08:17 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Okay. So if you have a spouse who has an insurance plan, get on it. Yeah, that's probably your best way to go. Also, sag-aftra has a fantastic health insurance program. If you are SAG-AFTRA, you need to earn a certain amount of money every year to qualify for that. So if you can get it through a partner, great. If you can get it through SAG-AFTRA, great.  08:40 - Anne (Host) If you cannot, If you work for the government too, county or state before this this county-state government employees also have fantastic plans.  08:46 - Tom Dheere (Guest) When I was a teacher yes, I had a great plan because I work for an educational institution and I have a nice pension Right.  08:51 Also, the Freelancers Union has healthcare. Nava has health insurance packages that you can look at. I, who live in New York, go through this state New York healthcare program. So my wife and I built an account. We entered all of our information, all of our assets, all of our expenses, and then it says okay, based on your adjusted income, you qualify for these health insurance programs through these companies and it will cost this amount. So that's been fantastic for us. The big thing is that if you are self-employed, you can write off legitimately, legally, ethically, a lot of stuff. Yes, yes. So when it comes to applying for a mortgage, it doesn't look good because your income looks a lot lower.  09:30 - Anne (Host) Absolutely.  09:31 - Tom Dheere (Guest) But if you are applying for health insurance, first-hand experience.  09:33 - Anne (Host) It's great for you yes, first-hand experience. If you're self-employed and then asking for a mortgage, it is something. You will have to provide a trillion pieces of evidence of the money that you make. It is very difficult, because that was my experience when we applied for a mortgage a couple of years ago, before we bought this home, and so, being self-employed, you have to be more financially intelligent than you ever thought, because you're going to have to have lots of different proof of income when do you get your income and how much income, and what are you writing off? And the cool thing is is that, yes, you can write off a whole bunch when you're self-employed. However, sometimes it makes the government look at you a little closer too.  10:13 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Yes, you gotta be careful about that Because if you take a loss too many times, they're gonna designate your voiceover career as a hobby and then financially, you're kind of boned when it comes to that. I will also give another piece of advice regarding health insurance. Is that the best advice that I can give that I give my VO strategist students is to try to get a health savings account, or HSA. This is separate from a health insurance policy. Hsa is basically an IRA or a retirement account, but the purpose of it is to put money into it and take money out of it only for medical expenses. And what's great about it is for those of us who get paid voiceover gigs where there is no withholding. They don't take taxes out. You can deposit that money in that HSA and it will not get taxed when you take that money out for a legitimate medical expense.  11:08 That money does not get taxed, it is protected and a lot of them function like actual funds, like retirement funds where you can choose. It's like an index fund or a retirement fund where you can choose Apple or Microsoft or whatever, and it will be influenced by the market and some of them are purely interest rate based, like a straight up IRA so you can have multiple HSAs. I have multiple HSAs. Some are performance based, some are interest based, and what I do is I don't take anything out of them ever, even if I have medical expenses, because what I'm going to do is that down the road you can reimburse yourself for medical expenses as long as you provide the receipts, anytime you want. So if you've got $1,000 in your HSA and you take out $500 to repay yourself back for a medical expense, you've only got $500 in there. That's growing or performing. If you do it 10 years from now, that $500, and you have $10,000 as a result of market growth and additional putting more money in. Now, when you're taking $500 out, it's a drop in the bucket.  12:10 Yeah yeah, absolutely, and when you hit 65, you can just withdraw from it like a retirement fund. So I strongly recommend a health savings account. It's very, very powerful. A lot of your credit unions may already have one, or you can go to hsabankcom and check it out.  12:25 - Anne (Host) Well, I'm also going to say now what's so important right that establishes you as a business is a business bank account, which is something I think is imperative, and also a business savings account, and I have a high yield business savings account, which is really. I don't take money out of that If I don't have to. That is really, and I don't know if it's just in the last couple of years, but I've seen more and more offerings of this with different banks and with I actually happen to have one with American Express which is doing really well, and so I have that.  12:55 I just put the money in it and I don't touch it and it just sits there and it really is doing well, interest wise, and so if I ever do need it, that's going to be kind of like my little nest egg. But talk about the importance of separating your accounts out from personal into business.  13:11 - Tom Dheere (Guest) This is so important. The biggest reason why you need to do this is so you have a clean audit trail, because if the IRS does ever come and knock in, they can look at your accounts and you can say this one, all of my business expenses went in and out of this account. All of my personal stuff went in and out of this account. They are separate because if you are mixing it all up, it's a big mess and you could get in a lot of trouble.  13:34 - Anne (Host) Yeah, and it's horrible at tax time Horrible, horrible at tax time, horrible, especially if you're not keeping track.  13:40 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Yep. These accounts are super easy to open as well. Most of us can just go online, log on to your bank online and just open the account. You don't even need to talk to a human, you just go, click, click, click.  13:49 - Anne (Host) You just transfer money and they want your money, they want your money and, as a matter of fact, they will reward you if you have a certain amount of money in that account. Free checks, higher interest, that sort of thing, lots of different. So I think you can shop around for a bank, because banks want your money right now.  14:04 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Yeah, because, like, my business checking account is with one major bank chain and then my personal checking account is with another one because the interest rate is so much higher in the other one. But I like all the benefits. Sure, the business one. That's also the same one that I got my PPP loan when the pandemic happened. So when I applied and lined everything up, I got approved in 15 minutes and the money hit my account within 24 hours.  14:25 - Anne (Host) Yeah, yeah, same. For me, it really makes such a big difference when you have those accounts separate, and I cannot tell you how easy it is to have those separate accounts when you're working, let's say even with an accountant, right, because I actually happen to have the same bank for both my personal and my business. However, they're entirely separate when it comes to my software. So how important is it, tom, to have a software that helps us to financially understand what's happening in our business? You know inflows, outflows, profit and loss.  14:57 - Tom Dheere (Guest) I'm going to give you an answer that you may not expect, but I hate those. I hate them.  15:02 - Anne (Host) Okay.  15:03 - Tom Dheere (Guest) What I do is I have I know this sounds terrible, but I have a spreadsheet. Well, of course you do what the spreadsheet does is I know because Tom dear loves a spreadsheet.  15:14 - Anne (Host) Yes.  15:14 - Tom Dheere (Guest) My spreadsheets, which you can download for free at vostratigistcom. You sign up for it, you will get the spreadsheet that I'm talking about. I log every penny that goes into my business and every penny that goes out of my business.  15:25 - Anne (Host) Okay.  15:26 - Tom Dheere (Guest) So what's also nice is I've been messing around with some formulas lately, so the 2024 version, which I have yet to upload, but if you email me at tomatomgcom I can send it to you directly is that I log the amount, whether it's me as a voice actor or as the VO strategist. I have separate columns for those revenue streams and then I have the genre of voiceover in another column and then that populates a report, a running, living report.  15:51 So I can see exactly how many e-learning things I've done this year and how much money I've made and what percentage of my overall revenue that is.  15:58 - Anne (Host) So now does that also incorporate? Now the only reason I'm gonna say to you that, yes, I realize that you hate them. The reason, one of the reasons why I like them it use QuickBooks online is that I can integrate my bank account and so if somebody's paying me through an invoice and it goes into my bank account, it automatically gets recorded and because I am working with an accountant, she can remotely log in. She's not in California. She can remotely log in and manage my finances and the two of us. I can see what she's doing and that basically works really well for me.  16:30 - Intro (Announcement) And I have.  16:31 - Anne (Host) PayPal coming cause clients can pay me via PayPal, Venmo, my QuickBooks invoicing, which is three different streams incoming, and so those three act as banks and get automatically entered into QuickBooks and it can also take the fees, cause you know PayPal and they all charge fees.  16:49 That's the one thing, and so that can be yes, that can be separated automatically, so it's not something that I have to go and say, oh, all right, so $20 was paid to me. However, I only netted $18.57 because of the PayPal fee. So all of that can be automated and that just makes it easier for me and my accountant.  17:08 - Tom Dheere (Guest) I will say that I do use Wave for my voice actor invoicing, which I have my credit card set up on that, I have PayPal set up on that and I have direct deposit set up on that.  17:19 - Anne (Host) My VO strategist revenue goes through Wix, so I don't really generate invoices manually as the VO strategist Wix does, wix does it for me, and then it collects all the payments.  17:30 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Yeah, wix is great for that, and then I have it set up where once a week it'll take all the money I earned from Wix and just put it in my business checking account. So I get an email saying here tomorrow you're gonna get a direct deposit for this amount.  17:42 - Anne (Host) And then I just I write it in my checkbook and then you know, this is all income. Yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense.  17:46 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Right and I just write Wix in the right part of the side, or PP or DD or whatever. So also I'm so anal and I am so diligent with my spreadsheets and my CPA loves it because everything is auto-summed. So at the end of the year, when I don't bring my receipts to my CPA ever, I just send in one print out that has all of the expenses added up Automatically. I do very little math.  18:11 And then another spreadsheet that has all the 10.99s that I collected and all of the W-2s that I collected and then like the interest on my savings accounts or capital gains, the insurance interest and all that stuff and I just give that all to her. So I like my system. It works for me.  18:27 - Anne (Host) Yeah, no, absolutely.  18:29 - Tom Dheere (Guest) And working with the QuickBooks works for her, so it's good.  18:32 - Anne (Host) Well, yeah, I will tell you in terms of expenses, like so, my expenses. I have one business credit card and everything it's put on that business credit card, and so the statements from that credit card become my expenses.  18:45 And the nice thing is I just get a credit card that gives me all kinds of benefits. It actually gives me cash back, so again, that also is a bank that can be input into my QuickBooks and so all of my business expenses are also there, and so again, that works for me. So, and also my business checking account, obviously in savings account, are also in the QuickBooks. So yeah, I mean, I think, whether you do it via spreadsheet. Now, in terms of the amount of time, tom, that you spend doing financial things every day, once a week, once a month, how does that work for you? What's your time?  19:18 - Tom Dheere (Guest) I mean, the spreadsheet is open every day, so if an expense comes in or a gig comes in or I work with a student, I just log it as I go. It's just part of my workflow. It takes a minimum amount of time. I pay my credit card bills like twice a week. And that's the same time I'm updating my checkbooks. I send out invoices. Well, I mean, it depends. There's some clients where the second I send the audio files, I send the invoice. For some clients I wait a week for retakes.  19:43 Then I send the invoice and then I have some clients who all the work that I did in one month I'll send them one invoice for, so I don't have a set time of day or a week where I'm invoicing. It's usually that. But again, I've been doing this for so long and it's just such a part of my workflow and I'm one of the weirdos that likes doing the invoicing and paying the credit card bills and balancing the checkbook and logging the spreadsheet.  20:04 - Anne (Host) And I'm one of the people that doesn't I actually enjoy?  20:06 - Tom Dheere (Guest) it and that's fine. You're the minimum majority.  20:08 - Anne (Host) I'm the weirdo on this one, but that's okay. I mean, I think, your method with the spreadsheet. I mean the spreadsheets are so, so valuable.  20:16 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Number one yes, especially if you can find the right formulas, because, like, I like to know what percentage of my voiceover work is coming from my agent, so I know at the top of my head in 2023, 12% of my voiceover revenue came from representation Wow, and that's important, because I need to know how my business is functioning and why my business is functioning and I also learned things on a marketing level.  20:39 - Anne (Host) Yes, yes, absolutely About how my voiceover.  20:41 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Business is doing so. If I do a marketing campaign to put myself out there as an explainer video narrator and then I notice in third quarter 2023, my explainer video bookings went up by 20%, that means that marketing campaign worked. So these things all have a relationship with each other how your money comes in and out, your marketing methods, the tools that you're investing in, the training that you're investing in on a genre level All of them are interrelated. Everybody thinks they're these separate silos, and I love this one and I eat this one. I love them all because they're all related to each other. They should have a synergistic relationship. Most people coming into the industry, as you know, dump all their money into performance training, which they pretty much should at the beginning because they need to know if they can do this and how to do it. And then they invest in the demo and while they're doing that, they're investing in the home recording setup and all that stuff.  21:31 But what they're not a lot of them are doing is investing in their financial literacy. While they're doing this, they kind of wait till later or they don't know they have to work on this, because if you can start to develop your financial literacy as you are developing your performance skills and working with great coaches like Ann, when it comes time, when you've got that shiny demo in your hand and your website is up and your home recording studio is ready, you can hit the ground running, not just on audition and pray mode, but also on what do I do when I get my first gig. Oh, my God, I did the gig.  22:01 - Anne (Host) What do I? I got to do. What do I do now? Oh my God, what do I do? I got a gig. What do I do now?  22:06 - Tom Dheere (Guest) And what do I do with the check? How do I invoice them and what do I do with the check?  22:09 - Anne (Host) Well, first of all, if you go, oh my God, what do I charge? And then it's like, oh my God, how do I invoice? And then it becomes like, okay, now I've got the money and think about it. You don't want to just throw that in your personal checking.  22:18 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Right, and that's why Ann can help you with that. I can help you with that Kind of developing your financial literacy muscles and your marketing muscles, your business muscles, along with your performance muscles. So you are well rounded and when you're ready to hit the ground and really start your voice over career, you'll be firing on all cylinders.  22:36 - Anne (Host) Well, absolutely. And Tom. I just want to promote you, tom, because for all of those bosses out there that are just starting out like a lot of people out there going, oh my God, I don't even know where to start. Do I incorporate, do I create a business? What should I do? How do I even go about getting a separate account for my business? All of these questions you've got the VO strategist right here at your fingertips. And Tom is just amazing. He's been in the industry for gosh a billion years already and he didn't even pay me to say this. But I am highly, highly recommending for you to get with Tom. Get yourself a plan right, get yourself a strategy so that you can go into this as a business and not be panicked and be prepared for success. I love it. There's probably a whole lot more that we can talk about financial literacy.  23:20 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Tom.  23:21 - Anne (Host) However, I think we've really covered a lot of ground here. That I think is important for all bosses out there to understand and know that again, we're not just in the booth performing. That's not who our business is. There is that other component which I think is super, super important for us to understand so that we can go and make a profit, because that's what the whole purpose is. That's why we've become unless you're a hobbyist and I don't think VL Boss is I don't think we're talking to hobbyists here. I think we're talking about bosses. We are entrepreneurs, we are business owners, and let's get yourself prepared financially so that you can be on the road to success. Tom Dheere, is your pathway to get you started. I'm telling you, tom, thanks so much for talking with me today about this lovely topic which I know most people. I'm going to have to title this episode something completely different. Maybe I don't know, because I think sometimes, when people even see the word finance, they're like, oh God, my head hurts.  24:20 - Tom Dheere (Guest) But it doesn't have to be. Learn to love it. Yeah, love your finances. Yeah, that's what it's going to be called Love your finances Right, love your finances and have business success.  24:31 - Anne (Host) All right, tom. Well, thank you so much again for your wisdom. Bosses, big impact, simple mission, 100 voices, one hour, $10,000. If you want to know more, that's four times a year. By the way, bosses, visit 100voiceswhocareorg to find out more. And big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can network and connect like VL Bosses, the VL Bosses that you are. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.  25:01 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, ann Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Free distribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Voice actor and entrepreneurial spirit Cristina Milizia joins THE VO BOSS podcast to share her VO and GVAA journey. From her iconic performances in "League of Legends" to her shows on Nickelodeon, Cristina's career has spanned, toys, games, animation, and more! Cristina talks about her artistic influences and passion for performance, how being bilingual influences her career, and unexpected stardom in the face of adversity. Beyond the microphone, Cristina's legacy is amplified by her profound impact on the voice acting community through the Global Voice Acting Academy (GVAA) and its pivotal rate guide. We discuss the ethos of leadership, the cultivation of a nurturing community, and the unyielding push for fair compensation in the industry.  00:01 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a V-O boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:20 - Anne  (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the V-O Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzzaa, and I am so excited to be here with a very special guest who is not only super Uber talented but one of my closest friends. Cristina Milizia is an award-winning bilingual voice actor and coach specializing in animation. She is a 2022 Voice Arts Award winner for outstanding animation character, film or TV best voiceover and is best known for voicing Annie and a Moo Moo on League of Legends, poison Ivy on Cartoon Network's DC superhero girls, Jessica Cruz for Lego DC Carlitos on the Casa Grande's, teresa for Barbie, mattel and Baby Bottle on the Cuphead Show. And while most of you know her for her acting roles, guess what? She is also a badass entrepreneur and a boss like no other, and she's the founder of the GVAA and the creator of the GVAA Rate Guide. Ah, Cristina, I am so excited to finally have you on the show.  01:19 - Cristina Milizia (Host) Thank you so much for having me. Also, any excuse to get to be with Ann is, like you know, awesome. I feel so fancy with your introduction, so thank you.  01:30 - Anne  (Host) That long list of credits is amazing and I just want to reiterate, bosses out there, while most of you probably know her for her amazing acting abilities and her characters, I wanted to bring Cristina on because she's a pioneer woman. She is an entrepreneur from gosh knows. We've known each other for how long, Cristina now 10 years, 10 years about yeah, I think, at least 10 years.  01:52 Cristina was like a baby when she started the GVAA, and there's nothing more entrepreneurial than just starting an online school and then having the idea for the GVAA Rate Guide. So let's talk a little bit. Maybe brush people up on your career, because you've been acting for also, you're like 12 and you've been acting for 31 years.  02:12 - Cristina Milizia (Host) At least right. I have been acting for 31 years, so I am about to be 40 on February 1st, so very shortly, Happy birthday.  02:19 - Anne  (Host) Thank you.  02:20 - Cristina Milizia (Host) Happy early birthday. Yeah, I know, that's a big 140.  02:23 - Anne  (Host) Right.  02:24 - Cristina Milizia (Host) I'm feeling that when I'm like, wow, that's impressive, but no, I started acting when I was about eight years old. Again, my parents are musicians, so I was used to being on stage with them because they couldn't afford babysitters, so they were just like hey, kid, shake this maraca on stage, and that's what we did. So I learned to play all kinds of random instruments and sing three-part harmony and I got used to from a very early age just being like and I say this to my students you need to get used to being a dancing monkey to a certain degree which is like hey time to dance.  02:54 Okay, yes, I can do that. Ta-da Be ready to just go. And I had training really early on for just taking direction, performing on call, being on stage, which was an incredibly valuable skill set to have at an early age before you get to that point where you're more self-conscious.  03:11 - Anne  (Host) Yeah, I was going to ask you were you ever scared to be on stage or scared to perform, or was it just because it was so ingrained at a young age? Did it just happen?  03:20 - Cristina Milizia (Host) No, I was never scared again because it just happened. Since I was so small it just seemed like part of my family life, along with sound checks and winding cable and everything else we did. It actually just got embarrassing when I got to like nine or 10 and my parents are performing at the school and I'm up there and I'm like, oh my God, please, all my friends are here. This is so embarrassing. I don't want to be like you are, family is playing and I'm just like, oh my God.  03:46 So, yeah, around between eight and 12, I got embarrassed about it and then I wouldn't play with them anymore and then I wanted to do my own thing and I danced as well and I ended up dancing professionally for quite some time, before I had an accident when I was 25 that made that no longer possible. So, yeah, it was a very artistic upbringing, so that definitely prepped me for just being in the booth. And so when I started doing some voiceover, the very first audition I did I booked and it was with casting director Ned Lott, who went on to cast for Miyasaki and Disney character voices. And, yeah, he cast me my very first job ever and I still work with him, which is really cool.  04:22 - Anne  (Host) That's awesome. That's really awesome. And so your transition. I guess, when did you transition full time into voiceover?  04:29 - Cristina Milizia (Host) Well, I was determined not to be an artist because my parents, you know, were very much like kind of starving musicians growing up and it's a very difficult lifestyle, it's a very difficult profession to really make a full time living in, and so I was determined not to do that. So I studied like statistics, I went to like the school of management and I was like, oh my God, no, I can't.  04:47 - Anne  (Host) Not unlike being an entrepreneur right and having your own business. I mean, we're all kind of starving artists, aren't we In our own right? Yeah, so you studied statistics and said uh-uh.  04:56 - Cristina Milizia (Host) Yep, and then I went to the School of Management and actually that was very helpful because, even though I didn't stay there, I actually learned a lot about management and communication with teams and how to deliver messaging and communication and people management, and so that actually was very useful. Even though I didn't complete my education there, I ended up going back to transfer to UC Berkeley and then studied theater, but dipping my toe in the business world and management was actually something that was very useful later on when starting GVAA.  05:25 - Anne  (Host) Absolutely, and so let's talk about your career then, kind of full-time and voiceover before the GVAA that would be GVAA. How long were you working and doing voiceover before you decided to start a business and what was it that led you to Actually want to start a business or an online school?  05:45 - Cristina Milizia (Host) Well, so I did voiceover from eight years old all the way through lower school, middle school, high school again. I just did it just here and there. It was never like a big deal, it was just something fun and a cool way to make some money, and we saved it, or my parents would use it for things that I needed. What type of jobs did you do at that age? Oh, that's a really great question.  06:02 The Bay Area they have a wonderful, a very robust toy and game industry up there and so all of my early work was toy work, toys and games. So leapfrog is up there in Oakland, so I did a lot of work for leapfrog. And then I worked for a company quite often called creativity and the music annex and they did a lot of work for just toy companies across the US. And I worked for another company called shoot the moon and they did like invention work where they would Create concepts and then present them to the big toy companies to purchase them. So I did a lot of invention work.  06:34 I did a lot of demo vocals as well, so like they'd want to have a product or a toy where they'd have like a celebrity doing, you know, the official voice of Barbie or whatever singing it. But I was like the guide vocal got, so I would do all the guide vocals and I would go through all the revisions of the song to get it to the final form and then they would give it to the celebrity and they would listen to my voice as their guide vocal before they did the final Things did they ever just pick you instead of the celebrity, or was it always the celebrity was because they wanted the marketing efforts, I guess, of the celebrity voice no, there were a few.  07:06 I actually did get cast and I got to do that, but it was actually fantastic training for animation, because a lot of these toy products are from animation Animation losses, you know, like Elmo and Barbie and Dora, and so I had to do a lot of voice matching, so it was actually great training because I had to mimic these characters and get as close as I could to have the client feel what the product was gonna be like.  07:28 So you got then into character then as well as yeah, I tell people all the time, toy work is fantastic training for animation in terms of just the level of skill required, in terms of what I kind of call vocal gymnastics, mimicry, really wide-ranging characters, really big characters that are very silly. I've been asked to do very, very silly things and again, just very like you know, singing a song in pig or in chicken. I did do a whole song, like it was a whole, like it was great, like we did all the notes were second and then they'd make music out of it and like it was wild, like it was just crazy stuff sometimes, and so there was just already a level of silliness that translated so well into animation later, because I was just not shy about You're gonna ask me to do some crazy thing.  08:17 I'm like yeah, sure.  08:17 - Anne  (Host) All right, let's go. How do you embody the pig singing oh God, is that work? How do you get yourself into that character? Absolutely, I can totally see that as Helping you and also why you're so successful as a character actress today.  08:31 - Cristina Milizia (Host) Thank you. Actually, one of the areas of animation I've really started transferring in more lately in past year or two, has been creature work and it's been like gibberish, kind of sure, or emotive, like animals or like mystical pets or things that are just like you know just where it's just there's no words, but it's just an emotional performance where you can hear a message but there's no words to it. Sure, very freeing art form. That again, you have to be willing to just let whatever come out of your mouth, right.  09:04 - Anne  (Host) Absolutely Come out of your mouth and that's been really cool, so I love that and I would imagine that that also allowed you to really delve into a lot of different ranges for your vocal Performances as well, because I know for a fact that you did a lot of little girl baby voices for the toys and so now, I guess, evolving into creature work, you get to do all sorts of ranges and I always think that vocal placement and understanding where sounds are coming from and where your Voice is coming from is so important in delivering different performances.  09:33 - Cristina Milizia (Host) Well, I originally started as little girl stuff that was on all this really cute. You know I gotta get my game down if I'm gonna do that. I started with just little girl stuff all the time, and then I just got younger and younger and younger. I Went into the baby stuff and that turned into you know, you know whatever, just really crazy. So yeah, I don't know, it just kind of evolved. People just kept asking me to go higher and higher and I was like, okay, now what about lower and lower?  10:10 Yeah, you know, we've done that too as my voice is matured, did get lower, yeah, like, so now I'll do stuff more, like down here yeah, you know, it's like my more big girl voice and then when to get really crazy, like we'll do weird stuff like that, that's awesome.  10:28 - Anne  (Host) I know that I fully have to take advantage of my morning voice if somebody wants me at a lower register Right, and then also being able to get yourself down to that place if you can after you've been voicing for hours, that's another skill. That's another skill set. So tell us all about your claim to fame. League of Legends. Was that your first big gig as a character, as a major character?  10:49 - Cristina Milizia (Host) Yeah, I would absolutely say so. I think that was in 2009. There were two characters that were introduced in the very beginning, and one, I believe, was rise, and the other one was Annie, and that was me. So a lot of people have a lot of nostalgia for Annie.  11:01 Sure she's also one of the very first characters that you get when you play, and so she's again nostalgia. She's one of the first characters that you get to play with, so a lot of people have a very attachment to her, and there's also an enormous statue of Annie and a moomoo at Riot Games, which is amazing. That blew my mind the first time I saw, but, yes, that was definitely the first big thing, but when it was done, it was nothing, it was not a known game.  11:24 It was an unknown game. I was one of the first two people to do it and so, wow, I did it and promptly forgot about it, never heard anything about it again. Yeah, because I didn't know that it had become anything. And they give us code names. I didn't even know the name of the game.  11:37 - Anne  (Host) Oh, okay, yes, so you didn't even know what game, and so when it came out, did you know that had to come out?  11:42 - Cristina Milizia (Host) No idea, no idea. I didn't know until I met my husband and that was in 2012, so it was like three years later, and he actually worked at Riot Games at the time, working on League of Legends, and we were on our first date. And I laughed and he said your voice sounds really familiar. Oh my gosh, how do I?  12:00 - Anne  (Host) not know this story, Cristina, I should know this story.  12:04 - Cristina Milizia (Host) It was part of the magic of our first date. And he was like your voice sounds really familiar If you've heard anything for Riot Games. And I was like I don't know, let me check my resume. And I'm like looked and I was like yeah, I'm some character named Annie and a moomoo, and I pronounced it and he was like your Annie and I was like yeah, and then he told me he's like your voice is famous all over the world and I was like that character really didn't.  12:27 - Intro (Announcement) Wow, you really didn't know.  12:29 - Cristina Milizia (Host) No, and I thought he was just like blowing smoke.  12:31 - Anne  (Host) Yeah, I thought he was just trying to like Cause first date.  12:32 - Cristina Milizia (Host) Yeah, yeah, I thought he was like trying to butter me up.  12:35 - Anne  (Host) Or like.  12:36 - Cristina Milizia (Host) I thought maybe he had a small cult following somewhere like you know something? And he was like no, go, look it up.  12:42 - Anne  (Host) And I was like and so it never occurred to you to look it up, because you weren't necessarily, let's say, a gamer at the time or you were on to other roles or what happened, just probably forgot about it.  12:53 - Cristina Milizia (Host) I didn't even know the name of the game, right.  12:55 - Intro (Announcement) So I didn't even know what to look for.  12:57 - Cristina Milizia (Host) Yeah, like they didn't tell you later. So I knew I was someone called Annie, and a Moomoo is more specific. But again, there are so many games that you do and then they just either don't become anything or they're small. And you know I wasn't doing big big games at that time. You know I would get and I was doing smaller more mobile games, toys. I wasn't used to anything going on a very large scale. So that was, yes, definitely my very first big thing that I didn't even know had become a big thing until I met my husband. And that's been. The funniest part is that my laugh is Annie's laugh, just higher pitched.  13:27 And one of my favorite moments ever is that I was at the airport getting off a flight. I was just in the airport and I laughed about something and then all of a sudden I hear this person and they're all Annie, annie. I love it, annie. And they just are running around the airport Like we see this person running trying to find her. Like Annie.  13:48 - Anne  (Host) Like I was like. Did you answer yes?  13:51 - Cristina Milizia (Host) I said legal legends, annie. They were like yes, and they were like you're Annie. And then we had to like sit down and have a conversation and I had never been recognized by my laugh at an airport. It just blew my mind and so that was like how you knew you were kind of famous, but it's fun because it's just the voice, like if I hadn't laughed no one would know, and that was like my big, like celebrity moment, right, it felt like I felt important.  14:14 - Anne  (Host) Well, that was the beginning of them, right, and I know how hard you've worked. I mean, having known you like literally I met you, I think, right after you got married, like maybe a year after you got married, and so we have known each other for 10 years and I know how hard you have worked to just make a space and to really claim your talents, which I always knew were amazing in the animation space, and you've gone on to these amazing roles. What was your evolution for that? Like, talk about your ethic, because one thing before I talk about your entrepreneurial ethic and getting into GVAA was you were focused. I remember you saying you were just focused on wanting to really do well in animation, so talk to us a little bit about that.  14:58 - Cristina Milizia (Host) I think I had been doing toys for so many years. At that point I had literally done toy work for every company in the US and the skill set was so close to animation. But the truth of the matter is that toy work doesn't pay very well and it's completely non-union. I believe and it was then as well A lot of it was non-union and it's not a robust industry. They don't make a lot of money and that's why you see a lot of toy companies branching into animation in order to survive. You know, like Mattel, having to go into animation now even live action films that was a big change in the industry is because kids didn't want toys anymore.  15:35 - Anne  (Host) They wanted iPhones they wanted all of them and technology Right exactly To survive they had to evolve with technology. That makes a lot of sense actually.  15:42 - Cristina Milizia (Host) Yeah. So toy work really just it was not high paying work, even though it was fun. Also, toy work is not, in terms of acting, nearly as demanding or deep. It's fun, it's great, it's educational, it's cute, but you really have most like can you find the red ball? Great job, you know, it's not like meteor rolls with deep acting, in-depth acting, yeah, yeah. And so I knew that vocally I could do it, and so I just made this resolution that I was going to work for Disney, cartoon Network and Nickelodeon and I was like and your overnight success took how long?  16:16 - Anne  (Host) Because I'm always about the, my overnight success took at least 10 years.  16:19 - Cristina Milizia (Host) Right, well, I arrived in LA in 2012. And I don't think I booked my first animation job until probably 2016, 2015, 2016. And that was the beginning.  16:31 - Anne  (Host) So it took a good three years three or four years before I really actually started working in and you had a great agent at the time which I think had a lot of faith and belief in you and I think I would say fairly significant in terms of your growth in that area. Would you say that?  16:47 - Cristina Milizia (Host) Yeah, no, I had a wonderful agent who believed in me and actually went with him from one agency to another agency that had more animation connections and we had an honest conversation and he told me. He said you know, honestly, at the other agency you weren't making me any money, he said. But he said I feel like it's because you weren't getting the animation shots that you should be getting.  17:05 - Intro (Announcement) You got it the opportunities.  17:06 - Cristina Milizia (Host) Yeah, and that has to do with the relationship that the agents have with the animation studios, and so when he took me to AVO with him, he said I think you and Sandy are going to do really well and Sandy is one of the best animation agents in the country, and that's when things just exploded for me.  17:23 - Anne  (Host) But what a credit to what we're always telling voice actors and voice talent is to really develop those relationships with your agents and how they can really help you to blossom, and that two of you working together can really help to move careers forward. And it's so important because maybe had you not had that good of a relationship, you wouldn't have sat down and had that talk and you wouldn't have moved over to a different agency. That gave you different opportunities. So I love that you said that, so let's continue to talk around. That time you probably also had the idea for the GVAA. So your little entrepreneurial mind was like, okay, I don't have enough on my plate, but let's do something else, right?  18:03 - Cristina Milizia (Host) Well, I think I actually started GVAA sooner than that.  18:05 - Anne  (Host) I started GVAA.  18:07 - Cristina Milizia (Host) Was it 2010? No, it was like 2013, I think. Okay, okay, 2013, 2014,. It was before I started booking a lot in animation. I was coaching because I had coached for many years at Voice One in San Francisco Toys and Games and that's because I had also worked as a casting director for a production company for Toys and Games, and so I was not only an actor for it, I did casting. So I taught classes for Elaine Clark at Voice One, and so I was taking some private students and I was getting these students who had just been put through well, I don't know how to call it, but a demo mill or these weekends where they're like become a voice actor in a weekend and make your demo and people who had invested large amounts of money and were completely unprepared and they didn't understand why they weren't booking.  18:51 And I was seeing it more and more and it was so devastating to me. And I remember one man in particular. He had come to me, had spent like $5,000 or something on all his demos in a new website and he was like I don't know why I'm not booking. And I listened to his stuff and he had a list. He had a speech impediment nothing that's gonna ruin everything that can be corrected and things can be worked on. But nobody said anything to him, you know, and I had a list growing up and it's something I had to work on. It's not like the end of your life if that happens, but it does need to be addressed because you will book more if you don't have one in certain areas you know, for your own narration and that's just what it is.  19:28 And he was so devastated he had no idea that he had a lisp and he was so sad at the end of that call and then I was so angry that somebody had done this. And that's when I was like I'm going to start. You know, I knew all these wonderful coaches from Voice One. I knew Elaine Clark and David Rosenthal and Doug Honoroff again, fantastic coaches and I said there are great coaches out there. There needs to be a resource, there needs to be a place where people can access quality coaches that are not going to lie to them, that are going to give them, you know, the real information they need to succeed. And that's when I started that and David Rosenthal reached out to me and said you wanted to be a part of it and we shared the same dream and then we just took off together and he was wonderful because, again, I was only like 28 at the time You're like 12?.  20:18 I'm sorry she was so young, I was little. I mean, you know, it's not that little, I was 28, maybe 29.  20:26 - Anne  (Host) I just jest, but you were very young and very ambitious and I remember when I met you. Do you remember how we met, how we got connected? Oh my gosh, I don't. Somehow the name Dave Kovosie, right? Oh yeah, doesn't that just like, comes to mind. I believe that he introduced us via email and we met probably 2013 somewhere along, when you first began GVAA and bosses out there, if you did not know, I was a coach for GVAA in the very beginning and loved, loved, loved my experience, worked with amazing people Cristina, of course, and David and really I saw the whole online school blossom, and so I love Cristina.  21:05 When we would work together I mean you in the true spirit of entrepreneurship, right, you were willing to learn as you went, you were willing to try things, you were willing to listen to the people that you believed in that worked for you and would ask advice and literally built that from the ground up yourself. I'm going to say you know, along with, probably, david, but I think in the very beginning, it was all you really trying to create something for the good of the community, which is something that I love, and I was very proud to work for GVAA and it was my honor to. Whenever you would ask me a question, you know like, hey, what do you think about this? Or what do you think about this? And I also remember the rate guide, which is so instrumental. I mean, we're talking, you're a pioneer woman. I was considered, elaine Clark, a pioneer woman as well.  21:54 - Cristina Milizia (Host) She was really one of my biggest inspirations for doing it.  21:57 - Anne  (Host) She's wonderful. She's absolutely wonderful, and I like to consider myself a bit of a pioneer myself.  22:01 but also just for you to be able to say, look, this is what's needed in the community, this is a resource that's needed, and then to evolve that into a school where you hired. I mean, literally, you were still a voice actor and you literally were running a business. You were hiring people, you were paying people, you established an online school, which, at the time, was not something that existed, and there was coaches that were out there, but there was no real website out there. I remember where you could actually go and say, oh, I want this coach or I want to learn this and let me pay for it here, or let me do this here. And so everything was advanced for its age in 2013, just because it didn't exist before. And so you I consider to be one of the pioneers of those technologies, of having online schools and having them be successful, something that people can trust, and then I mean, let alone, the rate guide. Let's talk about, first of all, what were your challenges in building GVAA, and then what was it that led to the evolution?  23:05 - Cristina Milizia (Host) of the rate guide. I think in the very beginning it was actually Jonah Rosenthal. David Rosenthal's son was one of the very first people who helped me put together, and a wonderful woman as well who was an assistant to me, just putting in just all the content, building the website, building, you know, all of that stuff, and then David Rosenthal, of course, as well, through every aspect of it, and that was just getting again all the content in there, organizing everything. How were we going to do all of it? And again, the biggest motivation was just I felt like there was just this tremendous social injustice, you know, and I wanted to protect people Because, again, I'd also grown up very poor and it really bothers me when people are being taken advantage of. It's so wrong. So, yes, and we definitely were one of the very first, and David actually had something called online voiceover coach.  23:49 He had also started going in that direction, which was one of the reasons why, when we kind of merged our ideas, he already was right there with the mentality of how we're going to do this and having you and bringing on all these people that had so much more experience, because I had the original vision but there were so many people that were aligned with that vision and had more life experience, more experience, coaching.  24:10 - Anne  (Host) And I had run VOPEAPs as well. So I had run some online things educationally based, and I had also worked for some other institutions, some other coaching institutions, but nothing as large as the GBA, really trying to bring together all different genres and all different coaches.  24:25 - Cristina Milizia (Host) Right. So I got a lot of advice from you, from David, and I think one of the biggest lessons I learned. I think people have this idea of what leadership is you have power and whatever else, and the truth is that leaders eat last. Your job is to serve. Your job is to serve everyone else. You come last, putting their ideas first, listening, staying calm, being humble, trying to keep a cool head and having a larger vision of things. It is not easy to be a leader.  24:53 - Anne  (Host) And I think at that point it's very hard and you really have  24:56 to have self-control in terms of emotionally and sorting through everything and you have to have courage, and I love that. You said that it's not about the leader, it's about who they're serving, and you read any good book on leadership and that's like, first and foremost really is the best things you can do as a leader is to put together a team that supports you and that is amazing at what they do and can even be better than you in all those areas, and working together that's what creates a successful business and a successful team together.  25:27 - Cristina Milizia (Host) Yep and I asked questions of Elaine. She was very, very helpful. In the beginning I looked up to her very much you, david, a number of our other coaches and because I knew that I had a lot to learn. And again, I had the passion, I had the drive, I had the vision, I had the desire to create this. But you have to reach out to the people to fill in those holes and you can't just try to assume you know how to do it all yourself, because you have to take advantage of the resources around you. So it was a very humbling experience and in the process, you know, it started to do really well.  25:57 We started going to conferences and presenting, which was wonderful, and then at one of the conferences or I remember if it was at the conference or perhaps before, but I had connected with David Tobak and I was mentoring him. He had come to me for some advice. I was either coaching him or mentoring him and he had decided that he wanted to make a little rate card for himself for his website, to kind of just establish his rates, which I thought was very smart. And he showed it to me. And Tobak is excellent with organization, he's very detail-oriented and it was just beautiful, like it was just beautifully laid out and I was like this is fantastic.  26:30 I was like this is great and I was just like I suddenly had this vision of doing this on a much larger scale. And there was a reason for this too. And I had actually just had an experience, not long before this happened, where I had been hired for an animation show, where I found out later that they had let go of their cast, that they were paying, I think. It was like I can't remember the exact number but normal animation rate, but non-union and then they had decided to hire all new actors at half the rate and I was one of those actors and this was through an agency.  27:03 - Anne  (Host) Wow.  27:04 - Cristina Milizia (Host) And I was just. You know, I was like, oh, that's one of my first animation jobs. I'm so excited, you know, I've been doing this for so long.  27:08 I'm just excited. And then I found out later what had happened, and I didn't even understand really the dynamics of any of this, and that even though I had been hired to be a different character, it was still the fact that they were trying to hold the line of no, this is the rate that we're going to ask for, we're going to walk, and the company was just like well, bye, I'm going to recast.  27:29 And then me being, I had a lot of experience as a voice actor, but I was hired and again I'm just all starry-eyed because it's my first animation job, which just happens to every voice actor. Everybody, you're starry-eyed. Oh my God, it's my first job. That's absolutely what happens.  27:43 - Anne  (Host) Yep, and I remember that at the time happening a lot and there being at least the starting of some discussions, because even Facebook groups at that time hadn't really materialized. I know I had one for VOPs, but there weren't like there are today. There weren't groups that could discuss those things, but it was one of the things that people were starting to discuss, including rates. It's one of the reasons why people would say do we publish our rate guides online on our website? That was a big question of the day and I remember there was a discussion about that. But I also then remember, just at the touch, in the beginning of it, when people would talk about oh my gosh, like here are actors trying to stand their ground and get paid a fair rate, and the company just saying, well, that's okay, see ya, and then hiring starry-eyed voice actors half the rate, and I remember that being an issue. And here you go wanting to take a stand about that, and I think that's wonderful.  28:36 - Cristina Milizia (Host) And this was also the time my husband reminded me we were discussing this before I came on today that this was also the time that this was really the rise of the pay to plays. Yes, this was the time when Voicescom and Voice 123, they were just taking over.  28:51 The rates were just plummeting, plummeting, plummeting.  28:56 And so in the midst of all this and I was just watching more and more work go non-union because I'm FICOR, so I see union and non-union work.  29:05 Toy work is exclusively non-union, so I wasn't going to go full union, I was going to be FICOR, so I didn't lose my toy work that I needed at the time, which was my only income aside from my one or two animation jobs which I was starting to get, and I just felt like I was watching my industry fall apart and everything that I had worked hard to try to get out of which was just these little tiny non-union job rates and being taken advantage of many times in my career up until this point.  29:31 And I was like, no, I don't want this to happen to any other talented people that are coming in this, where maybe they have a strong performance background, strong acting background, they're trained opera singer, whatever, and so they do a great job, but they have no idea what they should be paid for that skill set and they're just excited to be on a show, and it happens every day. And so when he showed me this little guide, I was like you know what? This is what we need. We need this for the non-union world. Yeah, absolutely.  30:01 - Anne  (Host) And you know, what's funny is that when there was all the discussion about the rate cards like, do we publish our rate cards Everybody at the time was saying, well, okay, what's the benchmark? Is there a benchmark? What should I charge? And especially for all of the non-union stuff that I was doing corporate work, explainer work, e-learning work everybody would say, well, what do you charge? What do you charge? And they'd say, how do we even know what's the benchmark?  30:22 And when we were all back in the day before there was a big band and there was the GVAA rate guide, there was a bunch of us that used to talk to one another and say, well, here is what I charge, but I'm not going to publish it on my website because every job is different. However, it's always good, especially for anybody new, and they still find this to be the case whenever I have a new student and they're like, oh my God, somebody just asked me what I would charge for this e-learning job or for this corporate job and what do I do? And you get into that panic and you have no reference, you have nothing to look at, to even benchmark your pricing on. And I'm so glad that the GVAA rate guard was started because it gave us something other than SAG-AFTRA okay, because SAG-AFTRA is what we were looking at, but SAG-AFTRA didn't have rates for e-learning. Really, it was one of those things where it was just a bunch of us who did a bunch of it and we would talk amongst each other and you were actually asking all those people, including myself, like what do you charge?  31:16 And so it was great. You were able to bring together everybody at the time to really get a good set of data for this rate guide and it literally is iconic now in the industry. I mean, I say this over and over again how many times do people reference the GVAA rate guide? And I am so proud to know you, christine, I'm so proud that you did this back then, knowing it would be a good resource for the community, and it's really just become legendary today. It's epic, it's the GVAA rate guide. I mean, it's literally it's its own entity. Now you know it should have its own website just for the usefulness and functionality.  31:55 - Cristina Milizia (Host) And we have more plans for it.  31:56 And first of all, I just want to say like, too, that a lot of people don't know the original story of the rape guide, and so I was really excited to talk about it with you today, because what happened after Toback showed me that little card, as I said hey, toback, will you please come work with me, work for GVAA. I want to build this for every area of voiceover, because exactly what you said that the union didn't talk about no, I don't think they talk about telephony. They don't know about all of these other areas. And I knew a lot of people. I knew a lot of coaches and I just started making phone calls and I spent a lot of time with you. I spent a lot of time with Josh at GoVoices, eric Shepard at Shepard Agency, wonderful agents and I did actually spend some time with union workers as well who explained their rape structures and I tried to translate it kind of in a non-union format for different areas, and all those people generously gave their time to build this, because we all believed in it.  32:51 - Anne  (Host) I remember at the time, we all believed in it and we all said, yes, this is exactly what's needed. This is what's needed in the industry.  32:58 - Cristina Milizia (Host) And there were so many areas, we were like what do we do? If I'm doing an airport announcement, I'm like I have no idea Let me go look.  33:05 I'm being played in a lobby of a dentist's office. I'm like, let me go research that. What if I'm a voice in a card that opens up and sings something? A hallmark card? Right, that's okay. And so we got this barrage of people just asking, and so it was built, and it was so much, so quickly that, unfortunately, I burned out a little bit. Well, I burned out because I was getting emails and messages and messenger notices at all times of day.  33:32 - Anne  (Host) Well, at this point, I know as a coach before the GBA rape guide, I know as a coach oh my goodness, when you set your students out into the world of working in voiceover and they've got their coaching, they've got a demo, and then all of a sudden that first job request comes in or how much would it cost they flock to the people like insane and just panic, panic, panic. Oh my God, what do I charge? Oh my God, what do I charge? Oh my God, what do I charge? What do I charge for this? So I know you, on a grand scale, were being barraged, because I was being barraged before the GBA rape guide existed and it became like one of those things where it's like I'd love to help you but I cannot answer you in this next second, right At two in the morning.  34:14 - Cristina Milizia (Host) Yeah, exactly.  34:16 - Anne  (Host) And so that's what is so wonderful about having that as a resource and congratulations on that. I mean, really, it's a wonderful, wonderful resource for the community and I'm just so proud to have been a small part of it back in the day and so proud of you and so proud of GVAA and just guys, bosses, this is a bad ass entrepreneur right here. She's a VO boss and you may not even have known that, but I am bringing that to light now and shouting it from the rooftop. So, Cristina, it's been amazing. How can people, if people need to get in touch with you because I know you're coaching a lot now and you're high in demand but how can people get in touch with you if they need to?  34:53 - Cristina Milizia (Host) So I am very excited to be coaching again. I took a long break to focus on animation, but now I am back and I feel like I have so much more information to share, which is really exciting. You can find me at globalvoiceacademycom. That's the website. If you look up GVAA rape guide, it's all connected on there too. If that's already in your normal search engine, it's all connected. You'll see under one-on-one coaching that I'm there.  35:16 I focus on animation, character work in general, toys, video games and career strategy things of that nature, and now that I'm back from my break also, you can expect some really cool stuff that we're going to be doing the rape guide.  35:29 We have plans for adding a whole, much larger non-union animation section very soon, doing research right now on audio description as well, which is a new area that's really exploding as well, and if people do have other areas that they would like to see on the rape guide, you can also reach out to us at globalvoiceacademycom. Let us know if there's stuff missing on there that you'd like to see, because we definitely have big plans to continue growing it. And, as I think it was Tim Friedland who told me or maybe it was at the Navigala that 80% of voiceover work is now non-union. I believe that is yeah, absolutely so. I am as dedicated to this project as ever. I took my little break and now I'm back and I'm here for the community and I want us all to rise and support each other and be able to fight for what we're worth.  36:15 - Anne  (Host) So thank you, Cristina, so much for that. It's been an absolute pleasure. I can only hope to have many more conversations with you in the future Me too, for the podcast. And so, bosses, here's your chance to use your voice to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities, just like GVAA and Cristina Malizia have done. Give back to the communities that give to you. Visit 100voiceswhocareorg to commit. And also a big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can connect a network like bosses, like Cristina and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week. I love you, Cristina, and we will see you next week. I love you.  36:53 - Cristina Milizia (Host) Bye.  36:56 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host and Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

The BOSSES discuss why adapting to an ever-evolving industry is crucial for standing out in a sea of talent. Anne discusses her own expansion into ventures like VO Boss, VO Peeps, and podcasting, illustrating how you can diversify your skillset and find fresh opportunities without losing your creative spark. Plus, the BOSSES spotlight the immense value of networking through conferences and workshops to elevate your voice-acting business to boss-level status. Join us, for an empowering session that promises to reignite your passion and strategic approach to your voice-acting venture. 00:01 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VEO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Gangusa.  00:19 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VEO Boss podcast and the Boss Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Gangusa, and I'm here with the lovely, lovely Lau Lapides.  00:31 - Lau (Guest) Hey Lau. Oh, amazing to see you, as always Amazing. Oh, thank you, Lau.  00:36 - Anne (Host) Wonderful to see you as well.  00:40 - Lau (Guest) What are we talking about today? I can't wait.  00:42 - Anne (Host) Okay, so I always have to open it up with a story. So lately I have heard a lot this year because it's been an interesting year. I've heard a lot from my students that they're frustrated. They have been making investments and they've been doing auditions and they're just not getting any work and they're just like frustrated to the point where they just want to give up. And I'll tell you what. I remember that feeling very well. I want to talk about voice actors who give up too soon, because I really feel like there's something to be said for sticking it out. I mean, building a business is not something that happens overnight. I know we say this all the time but, like my, overnight success took 10 years. I mean truly Lau thoughts on that.  01:32 - Lau (Guest) I'm right there with you and I think that that's a Listen, let's be honest, shall we? It's a very Western philosophy to think I'm opening a business, therefore I'm going to work and be successful right away. I mean, eastern philosophy is like no, at 10 years you're starting your business, right, yeah? So the idea of investment of time and resources and capital and sacrifice has got to be in our vocabulary and that's why we say in the first, three to five years is a typical timeframe, that we're looking at the metrics for what businesses are surviving and what businesses have gone under. We'll give it the three to five years, because you can't do it in a month. No, three to five years is the baseline. Can't do it in a year, can't do it in two years.  02:15 - Anne (Host) I'm constantly saying, oh, but I've spent so much money and I'm like have you? Have you really Like, have you? And again, I think we've spoken about this in many a podcast about the investment aspect of this career I'm like, well, thank goodness you didn't have to open a storefront or buy inventory. I mean honestly, your investment is investing in yourself. Because I constantly, as a coach and a demo producer, I hear this all the time because people are like I just don't have the money. Or I've taken so many lessons and I'm like have you? And I don't mean to be obnoxious here about it, but really, if you think about it and again, I've said this multiple times I always tell people look, we go to school for years. How many years do you go to medical school? How many years, if you want to become a vet, do you go to school? How many hours in a day do you spend at your job? Eight hours a day, maybe.  03:05 And so all of a sudden I'll get people who are like, yeah, but I've taken so many coaching sessions and I just I'm not getting the work and I'm like how many coaching sessions have you taken? And this is how many hours of your life have you actually spent studying the craft of voice acting, and not just for coaching. But let's just say, how many hours have you spent marketing? Like companies have entire marketing departments. They hire multiple people like you know, 20, 50, hundreds of people to generate leads. You are one person, and so you want to know why you haven't gotten work yet. You know what I mean. You're spending your time auditioning, you're spending your time doing a bunch of stuff, but also you've got to spend that time marketing, and so people, I think, are just giving up too soon. Lau.  03:50 - Lau (Guest) Yeah, they're also not paying attention to their environment. They're thinking that I'm in my own private Idaho. I'm going to be successful. This is what I want, and here it comes. You got to look at the world, you got to look at global economics.  04:03 You got to look at the US we're now in a high inflation state right now and how that affects other industries. That's going to make you feel I mean, we don't want injury and suffering of all industry, but you want to pay attention that if all industries are suffering, then it stands to reason that yours will be suffering as well too. And so there's misery. Does like a little bit of company, and so do the work, do the homework. Look around, however, you do that just so you can keep it in perspective, because otherwise we get so isolated and we get out of the bubble times.  04:37 How many times have you heard Anneie, oh, great, I got my demo, I'm ready to work. Okay, how do I work? And you're thinking, no, no, no, this is only the very beginning, the very, very beginning. Right, you're not in the middle, ready to work. No, this is the beginning of like, how do I put a little bit of a footprint out there? How do I get people to know I'm in the world? How do I do that? That's on me, that's all on me to do that.  05:02 - Anne (Host) And people will be very quick to blame people selling the dream, okay. So yes, there are people that sell the dream, but there's people that sell the dream for many an industry, right, and that's part of how they have their business flourish. However, there's a lot to be said for what you just said, and that is pay attention to the world, pay attention to the global market, pay attention to what is it that people are looking for? How is our voice profession being viewed in the marketplace right now? What's in demand, right? What is the going rate? What are people getting paid?  05:38 You cAnneot just say I've practiced, I've got a demo and now I'm ready to work, because there's so many other factors at play. One of the things is that you've got to evolve with the market and you've got to give yourself enough time in the market so that you can get hired. A lot of times, it's people who are established in the market and can show that they're established in the market for a very long time. Clients will tend to gravitate to them. I mean, I know for myself, right? If I'm looking to work with a particular we always use the dentist. It seems like I want a dentist who's got experience?  06:14 I want a doctor who has experience. I needed a breast surgeon right, obviously, for my breast cancer. I shopped for a breast surgeon. Of course, how long they were in business and how many surgeries did they perform it was a factor in who I hired to do such a thing. I think most of the voice actors that get super frustrated and say it's just not working. I put in all this money. I ask you to step back and think about what you just said. Did you really invest a lot of money? Maybe, yes, you thought that you could maybe create a business out of a whole lot less. Maybe it's because somebody sold you the dream. But also do not discount the fact that maybe you didn't look or educate yourself on what this industry is all about. And what investment do you need to make? That's not just monetary investment, it's also-.  07:06 - Lau (Guest) That's exactly right.  07:08 - Anne (Host) What sort of time is invested? What sort of education is invested for you?  07:13 - Lau (Guest) I always think to myself, Anneie, when, even though you may be in inflation, even though it may be hard to get clients at a particular time, I always think, when I'm very low, meaning I'm not getting enough action, I'm not getting enough energy, I always think and again, this is the work ethic of our generation I always think what am I doing wrong?  07:31 - Anne (Host) Did I lay back.  07:32 - Lau (Guest) Am I not working hard enough? Am I not working smart enough? Am I not strategizing enough? I may not be doing anything wrong, but the point is I always put it on myself. I don't look at the universe and say why isn't it coming to me, why isn't it just there for me? Why am I not busy and getting hired? I always think, well, am I putting myself in front of enough people? Do I have the right materials that are suiting the kind of job that they're looking for? Am I missing something? And typically I find it's on me.  08:03 - Anne (Host) Typically, I do find that, yeah, I agree, it is something that you really need to step back and take a look at. If you're not booking number one and I have so many people are like people that are newer to the industry that think, well, I've got a great commercial demo and I think to myself, well, commercial is only a certain percentage of the market. What about the other part of the market? Right, and so maybe you're auditioning, but you're only auditioning for your agents, who are typically commercial. Or maybe you're doing a ton of auditioning on the pay to plays.  08:35 Well, what is the majority of the genre that you are auditioning for? Is it commercial? Because, I guarantee you, there's a ton of competition for the commercials, because that's what all the voice actors tend to gravitate toward, that's what everybody thinks they need to audition for. Well, you can audition for e-learning, you can audition for corporate, you can audition for all different types of jobs. And, ultimately, I think that you need to really again step back and look at and maybe assess right down. Okay, here's what I'm doing on a day to day basis. Right, I'm auditioning for this type of job, I am auditioning for the majority of commercials or e-learning, the majority of whatever corporate, and so now really try to assess what's the demand out there globally right for that product. And are you marketing yourselves, are you writing that?  09:24 - Lau (Guest) letter, especially if it's on a pay to play.  09:27 - Anne (Host) Usually, you can respond with some sort of a hey, would love to be your voice, and make sure to take a look at my additional demos here on my website. Blah, blah, blah, whatever that is. Is that note up to par? Are you writing a novel? Are you quick into the point? Is your auditioning up to snuff? Is your acting skills? What about your audio? Gosh, we've done enough audition demolitions and, by the way, we've got to have another one coming up here soon. Yes, a lot of times audio has something to do with it too. What's your audio like? So there's lots of things that you can take a look at to see where you might evolve, where you might improve.  10:03 And also again, those things don't happen overnight. Great sound, although I will say great sound once you've got it kind of figured out, you shouldn't have to revisit it too much after that, Unless maybe you get new microphones or you move or there's more landscaping going on. I'm not sure.  10:18 - Lau (Guest) Yeah Well, it's inevitable to you and I on the coaching side of things that we'll get so many emails of people that say I don't understand how come I'm not booking what's happening. Could you please do a session with me and give me some feedback? And you and I will do the same thing. We'll give a session and just spend a whole hour with feedback and it looks like a ball, hit them between the eyes like, oh my goodness, I didn't even realize any of that. I didn't think of half of that.  10:45 Thank you for that value, because that value didn't save me and getting a job. That value helped me produce a career potential. Sure, and that's what smart people would say. They wouldn't take offense to it. They'd say, oh wow, this could help me build my career, just knowing one of those things that I would not have thought of. But I somehow feel like and I don't know what it is, I don't know if it's a generational thing, I'm just not sure this idea that, oh, I just know it. I got it all, I learned it all, I trained, I coached with five coaches, I know it all. And I'm thinking I don't think any of the great thinkers, philosophers or religious leaders think they even closely know it all, so chances are you don't know it.  11:26 - Anne (Host) All Right. Isn't that the truth? How about that? Isn't that the truth? I?  11:28 - Lau (Guest) can't imagine someone like Gandhi saying I know it all. It's kind of like the more you don't know.  11:33 - Anne (Host) The more you don't know, right, the more you don't know. Yeah, what was the saying? The more you know, the more you don't know.  11:40 - Lau (Guest) The more you realize you don't know right.  11:41 - Anne (Host) Yeah exactly.  11:42 - Lau (Guest) I think that that's true wisdom.  11:43 - Anne (Host) Can we just stop and say that again? The more you know, the more you realize that you don't know, right? Yes, that, I think, is key to understanding and not giving up Because you can again. We had another episode that we talked about. Well, people just they thought they had it all and they're like well, yeah, no, I sound great and in reality sometimes that is ignorance, is bliss right, or I sound great but in reality do you Like I've invested a lot.  12:11 Well, in reality, have you I market in reality. Do you Like you think about what companies do they spend thousands of? And also, do I spend money? They don't have money to spend on marketing. They don't have money to spend on coaching? Think about the amount of money that companies invest in their marketing departments. First of all, they hire more than one person, most of them, right. They hire a team of people and then that team of people work eight hours a day, maybe more than that, right Trying to generate leads and trying to close sales. And so are you doing that, really so?  12:45 - Lau (Guest) right and it's almost harder when that talent would come to me and they're fabulous and their demo is spick and span and they've got some great credits and they're just not booking the work and I don't have the heart to tell them that I've got 50 people just like that and it's kind of like not insulting. It's so sad for them, it's so doleful for them to have the realization and recognition that it is saturated and there are a lot of talented people and prepared people and people who have spent the investment.  13:20 They're not the only ones, and I think that they might intellectually know that, but put it in the back of their brain. But it's important to know that you have a lot of competitors. You're not so unique. You've got a lot of people.  13:33 - Anne (Host) that are unique too. You bring up a really good point. I'm glad that you said that because, yes, that's the other aspect of this. Do I give up, right? Or should I just give up because now there's just so much competition? Right, and yes, you nailed your demo, you have the acting skills and now, all of a sudden, have you really marketed? I always think, if you really are coming to that point where you've got the demo, you've got the skills, have you truly marketed it as much as you think you have? Or is it possible for you to up that even more again? But you're right, it's a saturated market. There's a lot of competition.  14:10 Now, if that's the case, have you thought about how you might evolve into maybe a different genre, or evolve your business to have another parallel set of skills that you're going to develop or evolve? Now that, I think, Lau is something to keep your business afloat. And I always talk about IBM. Ok, ibm has been around forever, right, and IBM is considered a technology company, but look at how they still are here. They're still relevant. They may not be considered a cool company, but guess what? They're still in business, right, and they've had to evolve their products, they've had to evolve their thinking. They've had to evolve over time, and take a look at any great company that has been around for a long time. They have evolved their brand, they've evolved their products, and so if the market is indeed saturated for, let's say, the genre that you love so dearly, well then maybe you think about how you can evolve into another genre or another aspect of the business that will bring you some income.  15:15 And sometimes only doing voiceover, it's wonderful, yes, but sometimes maybe you do something that's parallel to voiceover. Maybe you do audio editing, maybe you do copywriting, maybe you do virtual assisting right within the industry, maybe you do a podcast. Again, there are so many divisions and, again, I have always said to people that I have multiple divisions of my company, mostly because I love to challenge myself, right. So I've got the VO Boss. I've got this podcast, which I just wanted to learn how to podcast. I've got the VO Peeps. I've always wanted to network. I missed my teaching and then I'm demo producing, and so there's so many different evolutions of my business. I even coach outside of voiceover now, for wellness and healthcare. Why? Because I love it and I'm developing, evolving different aspects of my business that are going to serve me and bring me joy.  16:09 - Lau (Guest) Yes, and, let's be honest, Anneie, those of us that consider ourselves creatives, which most of us are, love doing different things. Yes, absolutely why aren't we sitting at a desk doing the same thing all day long, my God? Yes, exactly Because we're creative minded people. So that idea of multitasking and bringing out different qualities, and skill sets and loves and da-da, and maybe this year I want to try this. Yes, I want to move into that. It's not a cop out, it's not the side hustle that you shouldn't be doing.  16:40 It's an added layer of frosting to the cake, so to speak, that you really want to keep building over your lifetime, because not only can it be a service that you could really offer and make some extra cash, but also it could be really delightfully fun and inspiring and give you new ideas and be very satisfying to you in a way that the current daily situation is not or maybe it is, but it's not in that particular way and also branching out what I always called the divisions or the tendrils of my business.  17:12 - Anne (Host) Branching out allows you to expand your potential client base for voiceover here's an example, I'm going to be presenting at PodFest at a podcasting conference.  17:23 Now, podcasting is not what I do full-time. I am a full-time voice actor, coach, producer, that sort of thing but I certainly have been doing the VioBoss podcast for seven years and it's definitely a division of my business. Now I'm going to go and present and so ultimately that's outside of the voiceover industry, but yet I'm going to present to podcasters to talk to them about how they can utilize their skills in voiceover and also how they can improve their voice on their podcast, and so that is outside of right, and I'm not ashamed to say that it doesn't mean that I'm not doing voiceover anymore. No, it's another avenue that I find challenging and I find intriguing, and I want to pursue that as an additional piece of my business. There's nothing wrong with that.  18:12 - Lau (Guest) There's nothing wrong with that?  18:13 - Anne (Host) You don't have to be eight hours in your studio doing voiceover if that's not where your entrepreneurial brain wants to be, I mean, there's nothing wrong with that, and sometimes it's more healthy for you to branch out into other arenas to function way and refresh your brain and bring in new people, new ideas, new ideas, understand the perspective from a multitude of different perspectives. Right, yes, Really.  18:43 And that I think, is very healthy in terms of developing and growing your business. So if you don't get that national campaign this year, it's okay. I say a good entrepreneur will always evolve and develop their skills in a multitude of places so that they can have a successful business. And does it matter if you're not booking a national commercial every day, because I don't know anybody who is, to be quite honest. And so it really comes down to what is it that brings you joy, that can pay the bills and that you can do day in and day out?  19:18 Because most of the time, people get into this industry because they're super unhappy with what they're doing in their lives. So I always try to remember your why. Why did you get into the industry or want to get into the industry in the first place and then keep that why, especially when you're feeling like giving up, and especially we started this whole conversation about why people give up too soon. Well, I think you absolutely have to define your why and revisit that why over and over again and evolve your why as you grow.  19:48 - Lau (Guest) Yes, I mean you're the princess of pivoting and that pivot that change, that updating and upgrading we have to do it on our computer systems, we have to do it on our bodies. Yeah, you have to do it in our homes. Why wouldn't we have to do that in our businesses? And so that sense of like I have to clean up shop and I have to add something to this element that I don't have, because why? It's going to change the whole space, it's going to change the whole environment. That it's never just one thing, one effect. It really is. It has a whole rolling effect on everything. So if you learn to podcast or you become a producer or you learn how to write copy, that could have a whole riveting effect on your business. Absolutely, absolutely.  20:36 - Anne (Host) I love that, oh man. So let's talk about voice actors right now who are frustrated and want to give up. What is your best advice Lau? What can they do right now?  20:45 - Lau (Guest) I hear it every day. I'm going to throw out a quote. I love a good quote. Eleanor Roosevelt, the great Eleanor Roosevelt.  20:50 Okay, never, never, never give up. Don't mistake that. That does not mean don't give up on voiceover. It means don't give up on yourself and your potential within the business. That may morph into something else, absolutely. It may become something else, but don't throw that baby out with the bathwater and just give up on everything, because then what you're really saying is I'm not worth my time, my patience, my effort, my investment in really investigating my true potential, yeah, yeah.  21:24 - Anne (Host) And giving up is that, oh gosh, you don't feel worthy. And how many episodes have we already dedicated to? You must understand you're worth, you're worth it, you're worth it, you are worth it. And again, there's a reason why you got involved in this industry in the first place, and I think that maybe you're thinking the dream, or somebody sold you the dream, but I think, ultimately, you are responsible for educating yourself about this dream and educating yourself about how to navigate this dream, to turn it into a reality, to turn it into a success, understanding that this does not happen overnight.  22:00 There are constantly changes in the industry and there's a lot of changes. I mean, gosh, ai has thrown a wrench into a lot of this. Then there was a strike and then, every time I turn around, there are things that are throwing wrenches into the industry that you need to know about and you need to then say, all right, how can I evolve, how can I grow with this, if I'm not getting work right now? What can I do to maybe get work? Or can I create a new path for myself?  22:30 or create an alternate an additional path. Not just another, but an additional path.  22:35 It can be done, I mean gosh knows that I have created multiple, multiple divisions of my business just because it's a cool challenge, right, and it always forces me to grow. And I will tell every single boss out there right now that you don't think that I am scared every single day when I decide I'm going to do this and you don't think that scares the bejesus out of me. It still does. It still does, but I try to work through that. I've just been challenging myself constantly and I'm constantly afraid and I just try to work through it. Maybe it gets a little bit easier. I kind of doubt it. I still get just as scared sometimes when I say oh gosh now.  23:13 What do I do, Right?  23:14 - Lau (Guest) What am I going to do now?  23:16 - Anne (Host) Or I know what I want to do. How do I get there? How do I make that happen? Because now it's been what? 16, 17 years I didn't come this far to go work for somebody again. Right, this is my business or I am in charge of my own business. I will not go back. I cAnneot go back.  23:33 - Lau (Guest) Yes, absolutely, and I didn't even know when my dad always taught me you know, if you want to go in business for yourself, just know you're never going to sleep well again. Just know that that's so true, Like in as long as you understand that, you'll understand that you know you're going to set a very high bar. A lot of us that are perfectionists make the mistake of making the bar so high. It's unattainable, and then you're always disappointed. You're always letting yourself down. Really, no one's keeping score.  23:58 It's really about setting the bar at a place that is sensible, you can reach it. You can have small increments of success. Yes, right, yeah, I'll leave you on this quote. One of my favorite quotes is failure is the opportunity to start again more intelligently.  24:16 - Anne (Host) Yeah, love that, love that Love, that Is that good.  24:19 - Lau (Guest) Yeah, I don't believe in failure, really, but I don't either Use whatever word you want to use that I'm not achieving, I'm not attaining, I'm not getting. Allow you to grow. Allow you to grow. Take a step back and learn from it, you know start again Good stuff and don't give up, bosses.  24:34 - Anne (Host) Never, ever, ever give up, don't give up. All right, no Bosses, take a moment. Imagine a world full of passionate, empowered people who are giving back to their communities intentionally to create a world that they want to see. You can find out more at 100voiceswhocareorg. Also, big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can network like bosses with awesome technology. Go to IPDTLcom to find out more. Guys, have an amazing week. Don't give up. We're here for you. All right, we'll see you next week. Bye. See you then. Bye.  25:10 - Intro (Anneouncement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host and Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Join BOSS Anne Ganguzza, alongside guest co-host, Lau Lapides, as they explore the landscape of female entrepreneurship, including in the voiceover industry. Listen in as they discuss the historical and contemporary hurdles women have faced, from the 1950s through modern times. Lau shares her experiences in juggling motherhood and a professional career, providing a real-life perspective on the intricate dance of working from home with children. Anne discusses her non-traditional path to business success in the tech and VO industries. This conversation celebrates the resilience and creativity of women who are redefining success in their entrepreneurial journeys. 00:01 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a V-O boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:20 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the V-O Boss podcast and the Boss Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with my special, awfully lovely boss guest, co-host Law Lapides.  00:32 - Lau (Co-host) Oh, thank you, Annie, hey Lau. Thank you, hey. I'm excited about our topic today.  00:38 - Anne (Host) Well, yeah, so Law, I've been watching Lessons in Chemistry and that is on Apple Plus for those of you who have not seen it. But basically it takes place in the 1950s and the main character who is Elizabeth Zott? She has a dream of being a scientist and works in a lab, but she is constantly challenged by a society that says women belong in the domestic sphere. And I just watched the episode and I don't want to give away too many spoilers, but I'm going to give away one spoiler here. So, guys, if you want to watch it and you don't want to have a spoiler, just turn this down right now for sure.  01:14 So basically, she gets fired because she's pregnant. So now that I'm going to date myself. But I said to my husband, jerry, that doesn't make sense, they can't fire her for being pregnant. And he goes oh my gosh, back in that day they absolutely could. And I was like whoa, that just blew my mind and I thought, gosh, I think women have it hard now these days. And that's what I want to talk to you about Law, because I just want to talk about what it's like to be a female entrepreneur. And I want to talk to you because you're one of the best entrepreneurs I know. I mean, you run a studio, you're a talent agent, I'm a demo producer things that aren't typically prevalent, I guess, even now in today's day, for women to do so I thought we should talk about that today.  01:58 - Lau (Co-host) I love the leading lady subject. I just think it's one of my favorites Absolutely. And you're right about that Jerry's right about that Because I remember my mom talking a lot about that that even into the 80s, 90s and 2000s in corporate America there was something called the mommy track. So anyone who was training for financial advisor, accountant and such was very careful about what they said about getting married or having children, because they didn't want to be rerouted into the mommy track, meaning they're capped in every way.  02:33 - Anne (Host) They're capped on promotion, they're capped on salary, they're capped on all of this, they won't get their job when they come back. And it's funny because, now that you mentioned that, I do remember that in the 2000s and it's incredible to me. So here we are entrepreneurs, bosses, out there, you're entrepreneurs as well, and I don't think that this needs to be. This is certainly not a discussion where we're just going to be bitter and complaining.  02:55 However, I think we need to talk about some of the hardships of being an entrepreneur. First of all, being an entrepreneur is a hard thing. What sort of hardships have you encountered yourself, Law, and how have you overcome them? Because I think that we can learn a lot from that, from your story.  03:12 - Lau (Co-host) Such a great question, that's such a huge, open-ended question and the first vision Annie that came to my mind was a client that I work with, a coach on Zoom, and she's a mom and she has a couple younger ones, meaning under the age of like 12, a couple young kids, and when I'm coaching her as a voice over talent, the kids are running in and out of her studio, in and out of her booth, in and out of her curtain and one side of it she's a great mom, like she's really patient, she never yells, she's just great. But one side of me I have to be honest with you. I'm going to be honest with your people because they deserve it. One side of me thinks it's awesome because she can work from home, she can multitask, she can save money, she can still be a mom and be a good role model to them so they can see her working and being impassioned. The other side of me is irked, irked to death, because I'm thinking to myself you're not going to do that with a client, right? You're not going to do that if I represent you and send you out, and then your little kid is pulling down the curtain in the booth right, and I lose trust in that situation. I'm going to be honest. Maybe it's a non-PC thing to say, but that's how people think when it comes to running something. So is a fine line, I think, and I was one of those.  04:35 I raised two children. I was one of those moms where I raised them out of my studio. I actually homeschooled them as crazy as that sound. We had a whole village of people working with them and it was out of my studio and I was constantly multitasking the noise level. I'm killing each other, legos everywhere, them under the desk, and there was a beauty to the whole thing that there was this bonding that you could go through with them. And then there was a horror show as well, because it was embarrassing and there were clients there and some clients love the kids and others hate kids.  05:10 So it's like there are all these levels and layers to that kind of parental mindset, at least from my perspective, that you have to go through step by step, year by year, age by age, and it changes, and it changes often dramatically. It never stays the same Absolutely. And women, no matter how progressive the male is, whether they're a husband, a partner, a friend, whoever maybe they're working from home, maybe they're whatever I find more often than not with all my friends, all my female colleagues, it falls on them, the heavy falls on them. There is still this mindset in 2024, that I got to go to work, I got things to do, I got priority tasks, but because you're a female, you're so good, you can handle it all, you can do it. You take the reins while you're trying to run your business.  06:05 - Anne (Host) Sure, that's the thing, and I think that also there are many, I would say, women pioneers of many different things, and I am of the belief that, yes, women sometimes have to work three or four times harder in order to get any type of credit, and a lot of times there are women who pioneer things who never get credit and ultimately that is very frustrating and I find it even today, as progressive as we've become, I mean, there's still a long way to go, I think.  06:34 For number one, just to be an entrepreneur, I think it's looked upon in terms of, like gosh, when I was trying to get a loan when I worked for myself full time, I felt like I suffered a little bit of, I don't know, discrimination. It was very difficult to assure things like loans, where I feel as though a male counterpart would be able to get a loan a heck of a lot easier if they were an entrepreneur. Also, just getting ahead, I'm going to say that right now there's not a ton of demo producers that are females out there in the industry and I feel like it's tough trying to get noticed out there because there's not many of us out there, and then ultimately, it would be nice if there was recognition, maybe more recognition for the female demo producers out there and I'm just talking about demo producers, but just female, any entrepreneur out there and it wasn't that long ago, really, that women couldn't even get loans.  07:30 - Lau (Co-host) They couldn't even open a bank account without permission from their husband. It wasn't that long ago. So, when you think about just the freedom of being able to have credit go into debt, who would call that a freedom? But I mean the point is, it's like it's an independence as a business owner to be able to say, okay, here's what I'm investing in, here's what I'm incurring for debt, here are the accounts I'm going to do, here's my investments for retirement. And, as a woman, there's a tremendous freedom in independence, in being able to do that. It's not to say that you shouldn't have a team or a partner people helping you and working with you. It is to say, though, that you should take that right, and you should run with that ball and enjoy the right of being able to do these things that we could not do even 30 years ago some of those.  08:24 - Anne (Host) Well, I've spoken to people about this. We even had a podcast episode where we talked about what we did prior to our businesses today, and I was a female engineer in the late 1980s. That was kind of a tough road. And then I went into technology as a female and that was also a tough road, and so being a female entrepreneur is even tougher. Sometimes I'm finding certain things are difficult difficult for us to achieve, difficult for us to get recognition, difficult and, like you said, with the loans and all of that, it's just so interesting. So, la, what do you do to progress and move your business forward as a female?  09:04 - Lau (Co-host) entrepreneur. Yeah, it's a hard thing to answer. I mean, there's one technique that I found myself doing just kind of like, in an autonomic kind of way. It wasn't a planned thing, but I noticed there have been situations where I've been with many men or all male like. Let's say, I'm in a conference room or I'm online and I'm in a meeting and there happens to be very male heavy, which I adore, and I have, like you do, many, many male colleagues which I absolutely love working with.  09:30 But I find there's a different dynamic that happens in the way I communicate versus the way this kind of energy communicates, and oftentimes I find that I start to role play, or I'm either seen in a certain light or I start to role play, and usually it's like the role play of the mother, the wife, the sister, the whatever that I know. To some degree they're seeing me in just because of the qualities that I exude, sure, and I kind of role play with that meaning. You know, I don't play a character, but I role play in the sense that I know that they're looking at these qualities and I also know that there are times where they just bulldoze right over me like they literally won't hear what I'm saying because they're in the middle of their communication and I let that happen. I let that ride. I feel actually empowered by that because I know I have no problem.  10:24 This is a technique we always taught live presenters. I've no problem interrupting them culturally, doesn't matter to me whether it's appropriate or not. I have no problem talking right over them. And I found that in order to redirect energy, sometimes you have to be culturally rude as a woman, because you have to have your voice heard Absolutely. And you have to have that without and here's the thing we were talking about in the last podcast without ruining or stomping on their spirit, without making them feel like I'm at them or I'm hurting them or a threat. I think that there's a fine line, there's a strategy in that, like how you strategize, like being heard, inserting what you need to insert into listening attentively, but making sure you're not the daisy on the wall. You're not forgotten Absolutely.  11:15 And that's on us. I mean, it really is, that's on us. I could easily sit back and get really angry at that and say I can't even get a word in edgewise. Are they not listening to what I just said? Or whatever. Instead, I go in and I correct it. I go in and I redirect it. I go in and I do whatever action verb I can come up with, because I always view it as a teaching moment. Sure, it's a teaching moment where I can teach my audience how to communicate with me.  11:40 - Anne (Host) I love the redirection of it. Yeah, like you said, rather than getting angry or stomping on someone's ego, which it really is a lot of ego anyways, I know in the corporate world that's really what it played out to be. It was a lot of ego and a lot of times, if I was in the boardroom and I was the only female, or maybe one of two females first of all, they always wanted me to take notes or be the secretary. People would always say, well, yeah, you can be the secretary.  12:06 You can be the secretary of the board and I'm like actually I'll be the president.  12:10 - Lau (Co-host) I like that.  12:11 - Anne (Host) Right, and that's really how it worked. I was the president of a board and ultimately, they wanted me initially to be the secretary, and I said, well, yeah, no, no, I'm actually not a really good note taker, so I redirected the energy to say, you know, I'm just no.  12:26 I'm not fast. I'd love to be fast, but I'm not. I'm not fast at all. I type with four fingers. That's great, I love that and that's basically what happened. And so I love how you say to redirect it, because, yeah, I mean I don't necessarily want to stomp on anybody because, again, you take that risk of being looked upon as being the difficult one, the difficult one, the angry one, the witchy one, and honestly, you're darned if you do and you're darned if you don't.  12:50 Sometimes with that, that's right. But I like how you say you don't have any problems interrupting and redirecting. I think that's a great tactic. It's a good thing.  12:57 - Lau (Co-host) It's a good thing to learn how to do that. I also think another option for you and again I try to look at it take a step back and look at a strategy, a choice redefine the role. If someone says I want you to play this role in this moment and I'm like I don't want to play that role, or that's a typical role that they'd ask their mother to play, right, I might say yes to that, and the reason I'd say that yes to that is because I can do it. It's not a difficult thing for me to do. I want to be helpful. But then I'm going to redefine what the role is so the role does not become a passive role of like, in your case, a no-take or a stereotypical role, or get me a coffee, or I don't know whatever  13:34 that stereotypical thing is. I would want to play it as many of the female leaders political female leaders in the world, where they don't mind cooking for their colleagues, or maybe they'd get them a coffee, but then they're going to tell them exactly what the strategy is for the company or for the war or for the whatever. So if you do become that omnidynamic kind of person I don't know if you saw a Barbie you know the billion-dollar Barbie movie, right? But Barbie was always known as, at least in our time, was like. Barbie kept re-envisioning and redefining what a woman could be and evolving.  14:12 And evolving, and that's why we really liked Barbie or loved Barbie, because it wasn't just this one thing that you were in.  14:18 - Intro (Announcement) Absolutely.  14:19 - Lau (Co-host) It was really kept going and still today even keeps going, and I see it as that. I see it as I can make the choice to keep redefining the role that others see me in.  14:30 - Anne (Host) Yeah, and I love that. I love that so much, actually, and I think that, as entrepreneurs, right, take on the role and then create your own definition, or redefine the stereotypical definition Now, in terms of being seen right, being seen as a leader, right, being seen as an entrepreneurial leader. What sort of tips do you have for that? Because I like to say, when you redefine the role, you don't necessarily have to lead everyone, but you have to be seen as competent, as being as competent as everyone else within your role, right? Yes, so I am just as competent, if not more competent, as the role of a demo producer or the role of my Angangusa voice production company, as any other person, yes, I mean play to an audience at all times, even if it's an imaginary audience yes, the imaginary jury, so to speak, that I'm always a leader, whether someone is there or not, and I'm alone.  15:29 - Lau (Co-host) Love that I'm still a leader, or at least I perceive myself to be a leader. Sure, I don't want to lose the qualities of the leadership and the leader. I want to continue that role. I want to play it every day, I want to manifest that role. So, in essence, it feels at home to me, but it also keeps me practicing the role. It practices how I would react, how I would behave, how I would make problem-solving choices, how I would do all of these things. Because I know and this is what keeps us up at night, right as entrepreneurs is I know there's going to be difficulties and they're never going to end, and so I have to be able to face with courage and just say listen, I just am not always going to want that or like it or feel comfortable with it, and sometimes I'm going to be scared to death. Oh, yes, I have to feel the fear and do it anyway. I have to practice it.  16:20 - Anne (Host) Well, yeah, that's so wonderful, I mean, and that's just great advice for entrepreneurship in general is face the fear. And I think that, no matter what you're doing and just saying this, and having been in the industry a long time and mostly being in roles that were traditionally not female oriented, I had to, I think, work extra hard to educate myself so that I could prove to myself, first of all, that I could do it. And when I was able to do that, I gained the confidence in order to be able to manifest further progression and advancement. And again, like you said, you're the leader, whether people are looking or not. And so and it is scary my gosh I face fears every day, just as an entrepreneur, and sometimes even more as a female, because I don't know necessarily what I'm doing, when I'm defining a new role.  17:12 And so, therefore, I'm defining a new role. I'm going to educate myself as much as I possibly can about everything that surrounds that role. And if it's a role that hasn't been defined, then I need to educate myself on everything that is around that role that can help me to define it. And, of course, sometimes you just have to manifest it and you just have to take a leap of faith and say here it is, here is how I define it. And there you go and be confident in that, and that's scary as sh**t.  17:44 - Lau (Co-host) Law, and not only that, and as women, at least women from our you're like the fifth friend of mine, colleague of mine that we literally said the same exact thing over and over again the last week. That is, we are from a generation of really hard work ethic. We get up, we work, we do it, keep doing it. Forget about yourself, just do it do it.  18:05 Please, please others, be likable, be amenable. You know all these things which in essence is good. From a spiritual perspective it is good, but from a business perspective it can be very harmful, because when you do that, I want everybody to like me, law, I need your thing. It then becomes about you rather than about them, about the client. So I have to keep check of that all the time.  18:30 That's a fight I have too Pleaser, a very much a host type, and I don't want to lose that quality, but I don't want it to take the place of true grit and leadership and leadership of making sure that what I'm saying and what I'm doing is not being done for the wrong reason.  18:47 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I totally agree with you. There's a lot to be said about leadership and leadership qualities, and what does it take to be a good leader? Yes, to define roles that haven't previously existed. I think it takes definitely a lot of courage, and I think having people on your team, no matter who they are, can be super helpful in this, because it's a scary road, especially when you're doing things for the first time and they've not been done. And so having somebody to bounce off an idea to say, well, what do you think about this, do you think?  19:17 And not worrying, that's tough. Not necessarily worrying so much about what people will think will people like me? Especially because, yeah, I think you and I I'm people pleasers and, of course, I want people to like me and it really upsets me when people don't, and that's just an ingrained part of my personality. But I realized that if I want to be a leader and I want to break new ground and sometimes I will do that and not get any credit for it, and you know what that's okay, I have to figure out. Do I try to spend all my energy trying to get credit for it? Not necessarily, because for me, it's more about the education and the challenge to myself and then, ultimately, I believe, or I want to believe, that at some point people will recognize it, just because I've proven things over and, over and over again. Absolutely.  20:08 - Lau (Co-host) And I think many of us, in many fields, can concur with that, that feeling of like. I just said that, wait, I did that years ago. I actually did that. And this person is, you know, they're acting as if it's a first yes, and so I think that that is a generational thing as well, because it's like it reminds me of the joke of like when a younger generation gets married or they have children, they oftentimes feel like they're the first generation raising children, they're the first ones who understand how to be a good parent, they're the first ones that. And then the joke is always like, you know, by the third child, you can watch them. Yeah, it's fine, I don't even know what I'm doing, it's just so the idea of like, okay, I'll humor you, I'll allow you to think that you're the first one because maybe that's the phase you're in, but the reality is is we know it's never the first.  21:03 There's always so many people going through it in so many different ways. It's just who's discovering it, who's observing it and who's reporting on it.  21:12 - Anne (Host) Oh, that's so true, isn't it Like right? It's so funny because you're absolutely right, like we're all just trying to, we all just want to be loved, don't I always say?  21:21 - Intro (Announcement) that, like we all just want to be loved All of us.  21:23 - Anne (Host) As people, we all want to be given the credit that we feel is due to us, and sometimes it's not worth the effort If you've already been there, done that kind of thing. It's not necessarily the effort to bring it up, because sometimes that will look different to different people. Right, it could look catty, and so for me I try to just again. That's one of those it's mental games where you try just to like okay, you know what. I've done, that educated myself on this, and being angry or being bitter certainly doesn't allow me the energy to progress forward from this point on, and so it doesn't make sense to spend the energy on being bitter or being angry but, simply just using that energy to educate myself and move forward Yet again, to make myself the very best version of myself and my business that I can be.  22:17 Yeah time.  22:18 - Lau (Co-host) I really trust time. Time will teach all, time will definitely teach all. And I think that it's hard to generalize because we're also different in different cultures, different generations. But there is one thing I do believe many females have in common, and that's powerful, powerful instinct. And how we treat instinct. Is it real for us? Do we pay attention to it? Do we listen to it? Whether you think of it as a survival mechanism or you think of it as a spiritual guide, I really do feel strongly. It's a compass for us. Oh, gut instinct.  22:51 - Anne (Host) Absolutely. I love my life. I've got instinct, I know.  22:54 - Lau (Co-host) Yes, to know that something is right, something's wrong, something doesn't feel good, something is unsafe. I do believe a lot of female colleagues I have go very wrong when they don't listen to their instinct or they no longer hear the voice.  23:08 - Anne (Host) I think anybody. If they don't listen to their instinct, they don't trust it. Yeah, I mean anybody, certainly Anybody certainly you know what I mean.  23:15 - Lau (Co-host) But there is that built in thing with women. I totally agree. They're always looking out for the cubs. Even if they don't have cubs, you know, your cub may be your client, yeah.  23:25 - Anne (Host) Yeah, absolutely, Absolutely. That's so interesting that you say that because I think I've always in my lifetime I've always run my business and run my personal life by my instincts. I've always trusted it and it's never failed me so over and over again. And I think if you just trust it, just try it. If you're not used to that, try it and see what happens. And ultimately it's kind of like the first time you say no to a client who wants to not pay you what you're worth, right, and you just learn that negotiation tactic where you're like, yeah, that's great, I'm going to pass on this, and you find that you'll have the time to get a client that will pay you what you're worth and so that first no can be so powerful. Very similar to just having that power as an entrepreneur.  24:07 - Lau (Co-host) And isn't it ironic too that we want people to hire us for our voice, for our vocal delivery, but oftentimes we're not willing to listen to our own voice.  24:19 - Anne (Host) Yeah, so true.  24:20 - Lau (Co-host) Isn't that ironic when you think about that. So true.  24:23 - Anne (Host) So wise, very sage law, ooh, we like it Absolutely.  24:29 Good stuff, wow. So yeah, entrepreneurs, bosses, you've got this and we've got you. So, guys, really reach out to us, let us know what your struggles have been and how you've overcome them. We'd really love to hear that Also. Simple mission, big impact 100 voices one hour, $10,000. Guess what? Four times a year, visit 100voiceswhocareorg to learn more and to join us. Big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network, like bosses and strong, powerful female entrepreneurs such as Law and myself. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. See you next week.  25:12 Awesome Bye.  25:15 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, ann Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL hey Law.  25:43 - Anne (Host) Guess what time of year it is.  25:46 - Lau (Co-host) What time of year is it Ann?  25:48 - Anne (Host) Time for the audition demolition holiday Holiday. We're very jolly, so I can't wait for this edition of the holiday edition of the audition demolition Guys get your auditions in Live shows on December 14th and we've got some great scripts. Of course, they are holiday themes, so you guys are going to have a ton of fun. There is cash, there is swag, there are prizes. You guys get in on the fun, get in on the learning. It's only seven. How much is it? Law Shit? It's only oh. You don't need to say the price, do you? Well, I want to say that it's like. It's like it's the best gift. All right, let's try that again.   

This week Anne and Tom Dheere discussed the landmark agreement between SAG-AFTRA and Replica Studios. They discuss how this deal will shape the compensation, usage rights, and ethical considerations of voice performances in the age of AI. They look at the details of this complex partnership, examining the potential ripple effects for both union and non-union talents. They emphasize hinges on the necessity for voice actors to stay informed and proactive in the face of advancing technology that could redefine our industry. They confront the pressing issues that voice actors encounter, such as leasing AI technology and the critical need to secure royalties and licensing fees. The BOSSES cover the intricacies of fair AI voiceover rate structures and underscores the urgency for collective bargaining and new legal frameworks. 00:01 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VEO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:20 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VEO Boss Podcast and the Real Bosses series. I'm your host, Ann Ganguzza, and I'm here with my special guest, co-host Tom Dheere. Tom, I'm so excited to have you back, yes thank you so much for having me again this has been so much fun.  00:35 So, tom, there's been some news in the industry and I think all bosses should always be following up and be current on news that's happening in the industry, because it directly affects our businesses and so there has been a groundbreaking agreement between SAG-AFTRA and Replica Studios, which is an AI company, and I think we should talk about this and how it affects us and how it affects our businesses.  01:01 - Tom Dheere (Guest) I agree. Now just to get disclaimers. One I am a SAG-eligible member. I am non-union, so I am not a member of SAG-AFTRA. So I was going to say I don't have a horse in the race. But all voice actors, regardless of union status, has a horse in the race of what's going on in both the union ecosystem and the non-union ecosystem, because they all have a major effect and influence on each other. So I am a member of NAVA, the National Association of Voice Actors.  01:29 - Anne (Host) Myself included Yay.  01:31 - Tom Dheere (Guest) And we know that NAVA, including providing health insurance and education of the industry, is also a major advocate of making sure that voice actors are both safe from predatory AI practices but also are empowered to embrace AI to move our voiceover business forward if we feel that it aligns with our value system and our business model.  01:52 - Anne (Host) And Tom, I know you and I both we have taken time to educate ourselves within the AI industry and about synthetic voices, and I think we are hoping to encourage others to do the same so that they can make smart, educated decisions, and this is going to be part of that very important discussion. So, absolutely, myself, I am non-union. However, things that happen in our industry this can be setting a precedent for how I'm going to say how AI companies work with voice actors, as well as how consumers view AI and synthetic voices, and I think one thing I remember Tim Friedlander mentioning in one of his discussions was that, if nothing else, it's really started to bring awareness to not just our community but everyone out there of what sort of impact synthetic voices and AI can have on our industry, on our voices and our rights, our intellectual rights, our intellectual property. So talk about what you know of the agreement.  02:54 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Okay, so the first thing I'll say in regards to that is about late 2021, I took a meeting with replica studios to talk about their voice cloning process, and I'm pretty sure you've talked to them too.  03:06 - Anne (Host) Yes, I actually interviewed them on the VioBoss podcast. So, bosses, make sure you listen to that one.  03:10 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Exactly, and different AI production companies have different business models. They have different reasons for entering the industry and how they go about their business. What replica studios does is they work, at least right now, in the video game bubble, which is they work with voice actors to create very specific performances. So, like I think I auditioned for the part of, like the crazy old West speculators there's gold in them, not huge Like. I'd submit it to be considered for one of those. So, and if you do get that, you get paid, and that performance can only be used for that performance, both on a technological level, because they can't turn your crazy mining prospector into an astronaut voice or another voice Now.  03:54 - Anne (Host) is that because that's established with the company? Are you talking about all companies?  04:00 - Tom Dheere (Guest) or I'm talking about Replica.  04:01 - Anne (Host) Okay, replica, okay. So Replica has an agreement in place where, if you create a voice with them and it is used for a video game, it can only be used for that particular video game in that particular instance and they cannot make additional dialogue or additional games from that voice or.  04:19 - Tom Dheere (Guest) It is my understanding. Also, I watched the Navas wonderful but two hour long question and answer thing. So forgive me if I misquote.  04:28 - Anne (Host) No, everyone should be watching that as well, oh absolutely.  04:31 - Tom Dheere (Guest) It's on YouTube. Go to the Navas website and there's a link and you should definitely watch it. It was fascinating, Cause you learn not only about AI, you learn a lot about how Sagrafftro works. Cause Zeke talked in severe detail wonderful severe detail about how bargaining works and contracts work and agreement works, and all of that. But historically, replica would use your voice as a placeholder during production of the video game, as opposed to using your voice to be cast in the video game. Smaller roles.  04:57 - Anne (Host) Yes, yes, when I interviewed them, that was their process and you were paid. You were compensated on it. Not a character, a video game character, but a character. How many characters were used? You get paid on a character basis in a monthly contract.  05:11 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Right, and that one character could be used as a placeholder in production in multiple video game production companies making multiple video games and smaller roles could also be used by that and you would get compensated for that. So this agreement Sagrafftro agreement with Replica basically just sets up the relationship how Sagrafftro members can work for Replica studios and they have set up a studio per hour rate you know of the actual performance and then they have set up the usage or licensing of what happens when your voice is used and how long it's used for and what the compensation is. I think it was per 300 lines or something like that and then there's incremental payment. Zeke made some very, very interesting points, because one thing that a lot of people have been saying is like why isn't Sagrafftro fighting AI? Why aren't they trying to ban AI? And he said that. To paraphrase, he said they had a choice they could either try to prohibit AI or they could try to regulate AI.  06:10 - Anne (Host) Absolutely.  06:11 - Tom Dheere (Guest) And he and Tim agreed that they are five to 10 years too late for prohibition of AI, even if they wanted to prohibit it. So, as a result, their only recourse is to get involved with regulation of AI.  06:23 - Anne (Host) I think we should reiterate that, Tom, yes, rather than prohibition of AI, which, look, technology happens with or without us, right? And so prohibition of AI could have been really difficult, really really difficult to enforce and probably would have, I think, destroyed the industry, to be honest with you.  06:38 - Tom Dheere (Guest) That's what he said. That's exactly what he said.  06:40 - Anne (Host) Therefore, again, we don't have a choice as members of the industry, we don't really have a choice. I mean, we either fight back and quit or we evolve and we work with it. And I think that it's admirable of a company because right now I wanna talk to you about there's no regulation for companies right now, and it's interesting because I just interviewed Auskirkowski from DeepDubb AI, another AI company that does dubbing and localization of voices, who are also very much in the fair transparency, compensation to the voice actor, and there's something to be said for companies that say right, that they are fair and transparent and compensatory. Is that a word?  07:21 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Compensatory.  07:22 - Anne (Host) Compensatory. Thank you For voice actors in the industry, but it's also another thing because there's no other regulation. They say it on their website, they say it in their policies, but there's nobody enforcing it. So I think for Replicca to come forward to SEG-AFTRA and make themselves accountable, at least to an organization that directly deals with our industry in such an impactful way, I think that that was great. Now the nitty-gritty of the contract. I've not been privy to see that. However, what makes me a little bit nervous is that, first of all, we're voice actors. We know voice acting.  07:59 Replicca is an AI company. They know AI, and so I know from working in technology for 20 billion years that there's a lot of misunderstanding. People that don't understand the technology can be talked into things. Possibly they can be coerced into agreeing to things that may or may not serve them in a positive light. However, at some point you've just got to put faith in a company that they're going to be ethical and transparent, and I think this was a good move, and I guess possibly there's loopholes in the contract, but I do believe we're working towards something that's positive in the industry.  08:33 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Here's one thing I've been talking to a lot of people about. Is that? Well, for one thing to your point is that there is no federal legislation to hold AI companies accountable for artists IP right now, and Nava has been working with Capitol Hill and there are multiple bills in the works If you go to the Nava website it has links to show you the legislation that they are working on which is great.  08:59 There are a lot of people I've been hearing in the voiceover industry saying all AI companies are, by definition, unethical. These, I think, are also a lot of the same people that have been saying for 20 years that all pay-to-play sites by definition are unethical. Neither of those are true. They're patently false. No matter where you go in any industry, in any sector of any business all over the world, a certain percentage of the people involved are going to be unethical.  09:26 - Anne (Host) Bad actors, bad actors, bad actors.  09:29 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Every industry. The voiceover industry is no different. So that means a certain percentage of people who are voice seekers on pay-to-play sites are going to be predatory and will try to rip you off, and a certain percentage of voice actors on pay-to-play sites will underbid, underbid, undercut, which damages the industry. Same thing with AI. There's no difference. It's just that people are going to be how they're going to be, so all you can do is bring your value system with you. It's like a bad client, yeah, and we all have bad clients.  09:56 - Anne (Host) And it's something that I'm always talking about. Right, it's one of the reasons why I have my voice in AI series, with over like 35 interviews with AI companies is to educate yourself, and that was really the basis for myself. Educating myself about the industry is just talking, and one thing I think that is so important is that we have a dialogue with these AI companies, we make it known and I think Nava is just doing wonderful work in helping that to happen and for really fighting for voice actors on behalf of the organization and I think that all of us just need to educate ourselves on what is happening and, just like a bad client like I educate myself on a client. There are telltale signs when I can get a feeling about a client, if they're going to be a bad client or going to be difficult to work with. And I think AI companies are no different, and I think, first and foremost, companies that are out in the forefront of the industry today and there's a lot of AI companies or a lot of little tiny ones that have popped up and not survived, but the ones that are there in the forefront, the larger companies I think that they are responsible for providing an ethical ground, Because I don't think that consumers first of all will stand for companies that are not ethical in their treatment of humans, because it becomes like this whole thing.  11:16 I mean again, we're also a product of or a slave to the industry in which we work, right? So if consumers are wanting synthetic voices, or if synthetic voices will provide a space in the market, will provide something of value to a market, and Oz said to me the other day he said well, normally there would be all of this content that wouldn't be dubbed, that wouldn't be created, because it's simply the process of doing so takes such a long time and it's kind of like the audiobook genre and the audiobook AI companies that we're trying to make audiobooks with synthetic voices, and so there is a lot of content out there that won't get produced simply because it is a process to do with a voice actor, now that a voice actor isn't desired or better. However, there's some content that it may not be as necessary to have a human voice.  12:08 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Yes, and I'm pretty sure we've had these conversations before in various circles that there is some content, like a product manual, that would never get narrated by a human because of you know, there's just so many of them and it's not cost effective. But an AI can do that. Our good friend, karen, vice president of NAVA, uses the example of no human can narrate the New York Times overnight, and those who are visually impaired have just as much of a right to enjoy the New York Times with their morning cup of coffee than any other sighted person Absolutely.  12:43 - Anne (Host) An.  12:43 - Tom Dheere (Guest) AI can help provide that service. It's where you get into other areas. And actually there are people who because I've had conversations with people who say, nope, that's still not art, that's still taking jobs from people. That is still unethical. There is a certain percentage of the population that there's just going to be no talking to.  13:02 So it's like okay there's going to be no convincing. And if that's their value system and they think AI is an affront to art and an attack on art, and with some of the bad actors and predatory companies, yes, it absolutely is. But this conversation and it's not really about art, it's about technology Technology always wins. It always wins. Now, when I say that that doesn't mean well, we should all surrender and sell out and clone our voices and get paid a nickel, you know five cents on the dollar and just eat dog food and live in a hovel because we can't thrive as artists in the voiceover industry and get paid rates that are commensurate with the industry standard.  13:45 But there are ways to navigate the industry, whether you are pro AI, anti AI or can't be bothered with AI and have the potential to still be able to thrive as a voice actor. And this agreement with SAG-AFTRA and Replica is a major step, major, major step in that direction. Because, as you also know, the rate structure for compensation for AI whether it's to have your voice cloned or some other service where they're gonna synthesize your voice just for their website or just for this bit of software, much less getting it put on a website where anybody can subscribe and use it. It's still the Wild West. Now, with SAG-AFTRA, they are providing, thank goodness, the beginning of some sort of rate structure that we can all start to work with and find out if it's a viable one.  14:31 - Anne (Host) I'm so glad that you brought that up, because that is still we talk about. The Wild West rates have always been a Wild West right, especially for non-union. So what's really wonderful is that, yes, if SAG-AFTRA is getting involved. And of course, I've been telling the GVAA to get on with AI rate structures because, again, how much do you charge or how much should you get paid? And of course, now you're actually doing like a royalty share really with a company that produces that voice, because you cannot produce your own AI voice, I mean literally you have to lease an engine to do that or work with a company for them to produce it, and then ultimately, they're the ones.  15:07 Let's see if they have an interface that allows you to go in there and do a text to speech or a speech to speech generation of those files. You're still leasing that engine that does that, and that is something that you do not have control over. I mean, that is not your studio, and so, in reality, you have to pay for the rights for that studio to produce that audio. That's what I think about it, and I think about it as being it's more than just a studio to produce that synthetic voice or those audio files. It is the studio and it is also pretty much kind of the voice actor in a way.  15:44 It's like a percentage of you that is being used and so we can't possibly get paid what we're probably used to because we were used to controlling that ourselves. And it can only help the more people that get involved in this discussion, because I will tell you that a couple of years ago, when I started interviewing companies and we started talking about rates, there were no rates set and in fact nobody really wanted to like even comment on a rate. There were some people that flung out oh 10%, Voice actors would get 10%. And voice actors heard that and got completely insulted, not understanding the technology.  16:21 Now I say well, who says 10%, why not ask for 50%? Right, it's my voice and their engine, so why not start at 50%? It seems reasonable to me, Any good negotiator, right, If you're going to work with a company and you're going to have an agreement on a rate structure or a fee schedule, you can always negotiate. And so if SAG-AFTRA is working with rates and we've got other companies that are setting the rates, this is the thing when the company set the rates. It's kind of like who says the number first, right, they win right.  16:54 Or you know what I mean. If I ask what's your budget? Right? That's the proper way to negotiate, right? You don't say the number first, but if you set it, I feel like we have some footage. We have some ground to discuss and talk about what would be a fair compensation. Because, again, we want our voices to be valued. And again, this whole agreement with at least replica saying we're willing to step up to the plate and we're willing to be held accountable by an organization right For fairness, transparency and compensation for actors to get paid for their value. But what is that value? That's the question in terms of a synthetic voice.  17:34 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Right, right, voice actors are in the business of licensing our art. That is what we've always done. That's always what we've done. We're the artist in the booth, yeah, which is our session fee, and then, if it's a broadcast commercial, union or non-union, then we license that performance, which is the usage fee. There is zero difference between that and what the SAG-AFTRA replica agreement is. They will get paid a certain amount for being in the booth and then they will get paid for the use of that. So, union or non-union, you're in the business of licensing your art. This is just more of a codification of it in relation to the. I don't know if you'd call AI a genre, or I don't know what you well pay to places in a genre either. It's a portal, I guess, because I've always said there are three portals in the voiceover industry for casting opportunities representation, online casting and self-marketing. Maybe this is the fourth one? Yeah, maybe.  18:30 - Anne (Host) AI.  18:31 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Maybe it's like a three and a half one, but we want to license our art. Look, unless you don't and if you don't, then you work for the seeing eye here in not here in New Jersey, but across the water or you do stuff for learning online. Yeah, and you narrate stuff pro bono, which there is a place for. That that's art too. It's just you're not licensing your art, you're donating your artistic ability to do that.  18:53 - Anne (Host) And when you do that, by the way, it's kind of scary because anytime, like our podcast, like this podcast here, or anytime I put my voice out there, out on the internet, right now there's no regulation of it and so, theoretically, bad actors, companies that are not ethical, could be taking that and making voices, which they probably have, I would assume that.  19:13 I guarantee it I guarantee that, if you're known in the industry at all, you've got your voice out there, that your voice.  19:18 And we've seen that also where there have been some companies, unethical companies that have been producing voices or taking, you know, scrubbing the internet for voices, and that is something that is unfortunate. However, it's something until there are regulations, laws in place, that I mean. Gosh, how many times we talk about it, like with our phone, have they been listening? Have they been recording? Absolutely, and so that data is theirs. They can use that to develop anything. But at least now I think that, yeah, we're kind of backpedaling, but we now need to at least make our voices heard and the more organizations that can help us to do that right SAG-AFTRA, with this agreement with Repuka Nava helping us talking on the podcasts about it, and you and I being open and transparent saying, hey, I have a synthetic voice. I have a synthetic voice partially because I was educating myself on how voices got created, what companies I would want to be working with and really, until I take those risks, I don't know and I'm not educated.  20:21 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Right, and being a voice actor is a risk in itself.  20:23 - Anne (Host) Sure is.  20:23 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Because it's such an unpredictable, chaotic, no guarantee of any income ever kind of industry. And also I've been doing online auditioning since 2006. Right, so I guarantee I've had multiple auditions stolen and I'm sure my voice has been cloned in some capacity many, many times, just like every website you've ever been to or ever will go to has been or will be hacked, and our social security numbers are all over the place, and it's terrible and there's really not much we can do about that. Retroactively moving forward, we do everything we can to protect our intellectual property and engage in safe practices. So auditioning for some text to speech thing on a pay to play site, I think is a terrible idea.  21:05 Scheduling a meeting with a AI production company and asking questions about how do you operate? Sure, what is your compensation structure? Sure, what's your licensing structure? Can I see an example of your agreement so I can take a look at it or send it to an attorney to review it? Even if you don't want to clone your voice, I strongly recommend doing that so you can just have an understanding of what the industry is, because this is going to be more and more a part of the industry and there will eventually come a point where there will be legitimate ethical casting notices on pay to play sites. In regards to AI, which Nava has done a great job with Voice123, for example, to help curb that tidal wave of felonious casting notices that was proliferating the Voice123 site until they had a conversation and said, if okay, so if clients want to post a text-to-speech casting notice, they have to answer these questions and really answer them. And then all those casting notices vanished literally overnight. So that tells you something.  22:01 - Anne (Host) It does.  22:02 - Tom Dheere (Guest) So the VO bosses, the bosses out there, need to know how to protect themselves, while at the same time understanding that this isn't going anywhere. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. Ai is a disruptive force, just like the light bulb disrupted the candle maker industry. And who gave a darn about the candle making industry, except for the candle makers? Yeah, very true, so you know what I mean. This is a part of the industry. You got to learn to embrace, adapt evolve and grow or you're going to get left behind.  22:29 - Anne (Host) Absolutely, and you need to educate yourself about how the industry is evolving and again, you will be left behind if you are not educating yourself. So, bosses, go out there and sign up for Nava. I cannot recommend that anymore. Nava is doing wonderful things. Listen to the VO Boss Voice and AI series. Listen to Tom and I talk about it. We have a couple of episodes We've already talked about it on the VO Boss episode and really just read everything that you can familiarize yourself with, everything that you can, so that we can move forward and have successful businesses along with this disruptive technology.  23:03 Because if it's not AI, it's going to be another disruptive technology, and I'd like to challenge any boss out there and ask them if they are not using some form of AI to help their business right now and being hypocritical and saying, well, you can't use my voice, but yet they might be using I don't know chat, gbt to do something to make their business run more efficiently. So there are multiple AI opportunities out there that you can utilize that I think are wonderful to help your business run more effectively, and Tom and I just made do an episode on those. That's not a bad idea. So, all right, guys. Well, tom, this has been an amazing discussion. I'm sure we could talk about this forever, but thank you so much for joining me again.  23:48 And, bosses, I implore you, if you want to take a moment and imagine a world full of passionate, empowered, diverse individuals giving collectively and intentionally, you too can help to create a world that you would like to see and make a difference. Visit 100voiceshoekerorg to learn more. Big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can network and connect like a boss. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Thanks, guys, bye.  24:21 - Intro (Announcement) Bye yeah.   

Anne welcomes Oz Krakowski from DeepDub, a company specializing in dubbing and voiceover end-to-end localization. Oz and Anne discuss the evolving technology and the importance of protecting the integrity and earnings of professional voice actors. They look at the ethical landscape of AI, the significance of artist compensation, and the transformative effect technology is having on voiceover work. With the rise of deepfakes and synthetic voice replication casting shadows of concern, they discuss the pressing need to protect voice artists' identities. They also navigate the intricacies of consent and compensation in voiceover AI models. This episode is a call for trust and clarity in the dynamic dance between technology and the voice talents that bring authenticity to AI-generated content. 00:01 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VEO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:20 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VEO Boss podcast. I'm your host, Ann Ganguzza, and I am truly excited to be here with a very special guest, Krakowski. Oz is an experienced executive with a rich background in business and technology, especially in the entertainment industry. His current role at DeepDub showcases his deep involvement in the realm of media and film, where he leverages innovative technology to enhance the industry's landscape. His extensive knowledge and insights have made him a sought after figure in film and media conferences. Oz, thank you so much for joining us today. We're so happy to have you here.  00:57 - Tom (Co-host) Hi Anne, so pleased to be here and thank you for inviting me and looking forward to our discussion.  01:02 - Anne (Host) Yeah, absolutely. I'm excited to talk to you about the technology. So, first and foremost, for our listeners, tell us a little bit about DeepDub and your role there and your particular experience in working with voice actors.  01:16 - Tom (Co-host) Absolutely so. Deepdub is a company that is focusing on AI, or generative AI, I should say solutions for audiovisual content, with an aim to democratize the ability to globalize content. We started by focusing on entertainment content, working with big studios small and large, actually and localizing and providing them the capabilities to use synthetic voices and different generative AI tools in order to localize their content. Specifically for me, I'm based in Dallas in the United States. I am responsible for business development, partnerships, strategic accounts, been with the company almost from the beginning. The company started in 2019, so we're pretty young in the world of, in the traditional world of localization. However, in the world of AI, we're among the first.  02:06 - Anne (Host) You're veterans, you're veterans.  02:08 - Tom (Co-host) Exactly, exactly. I always joke that it's like dog years every quarter it's like another leap forward in technology and advancements. We were there before. Generative AI was a common phrase on everyone's discussion. Absolutely this is generally about DeepDub DeepDub is really committed to the entertainment industry and asked about how we work with voice actors. There is a lot and I'm sure we're going to unpack it here in the discussion.  02:33 - Anne (Host) Oh yeah, obviously, as you know, being a voice actor myself and you having worked with voice actors in the industry, I'm sure you understand the concerns of, basically, actors and artists in the creative fields and their concerns about AI. I think that it's important that all of us, voice actors included, we educate ourselves on this evolving technology to figure out how we can work with it, because I don't think we're going to stop it. Number one I've certainly seen lots of evidence of that in the past few years. I mean, it has just been breakneck speed in developing synthetic voices. From your perspective, what would you say are the major concerns surrounding the usage of AI in entertainment? In the entertainment industry?  03:21 - Tom (Co-host) Absolutely. I followed your podcast and I see the work that you've done on AI. I truly respect the will and intention to actually be aware of it. Like you said, I think it's also acknowledged today that this is pretty much unstoppable. The question is, how do we get in front of it? How do we actually address the concerns? How do we work together and not necessarily try to do anything that is one-sided?  03:45 In the end, everyone has fear when it comes to change and changing landscape or changing conditions, especially when it comes to a person level. People have their fears and a deep that we're trying to address them instead of not trying to behind anything. We're addressing them by working with the industry, by adhering to common practices, to the most recent laws or ethical codes that have been published. One of the things that we've just recently announced about a month ago I think it's almost like a month and a half ago, just when the actor strike was concluded we announced what we call the Voice Actors Royalty Program, which is a clear step forward in terms of giving voice actors, specifically professional voice actors, the ability to get compensated for the use of their voice in AI-powered projects.  04:40 That specifically addresses professional voice actors. We did not open it to the public. In fact, when you join the program, we actually ask for proof that you are a professional voice actor. Once we get that proof, we vet it. We actually make sure that this is the right that you are indeed who you claim you are, or with the specific credentials.  05:00 - Anne (Host) You have to do that today, in this age of AI.  05:04 - Tom (Co-host) Because essentially I have a microphone, I can claim that I'm a voice actor. It's not that it's not going to be open ever to everyone, but the intention initially is to ease voice actors that we are not going to use their voice without their full consent and without them getting compensated for it. I think that's very important.  05:23 - Anne (Host) Yes, I agree with you 100%. I think one of the biggest issues now is because it's the Wild West out there I like to use that term all the time in the voice acting industry because it's always been like a Wild West of rates. With new media and digital media, it's the Wild West of synthetic voices in AI. Now there are so many technical things that arise in terms of how can voice actors protect their voice? There are… a lot of companies out there drafting up these ethical policies and agreements that they post on their websites, and I think there is a bigger issue at stake where I think that it's wonderful when companies can proclaim and create policies and ethical guidelines, but what's out there? Who's out there that's enforcing them? Number one, I think really at a federal level or a global scale, there needs to be laws and regulations on that, and I think that's where we're going to be playing catch up, for maybe I don't know, this is my guesstimation the next 10 years, maybe more. What are your thoughts on that?  06:23 - Tom (Co-host) You know what? You're absolutely right and this is, I think, the key challenge that we have, that the legal system is so slow to progress. However, you know, technologically we're advancing fast. So what happens? It leaves the playing field, you know, open for interpretation, and this is where it really matters.  06:42 - Intro (Announcement) And, just like you, said this is the wild west.  06:44 - Tom (Co-host) Exactly, and this is where it's really important when you partner with a company to actually do the background work, make sure that you're working with a company that really cares about not only the output, but also how you achieve that output, because today you can achieve that output in many ways, but it's really important who are the people, what's their track record, how do they do things, and not only what do they achieve in the end and why? Because there is no global enforcement right now.  07:12 I think it's going to get there eventually. There's no way around it.  07:15 - Anne (Host) It's going to have to get there, but it's just going to yeah.  07:18 But what happens in the interim? I think that's the biggest thing. I have so many questions for you and one of them, of course, I wanted to like wait a little bit, but obviously I'm sure you've heard of the groundbreaking agreements between SAG-AFTRA and Replica, another AI company, in terms of working with actors and voice actors to protect them, and I think that that was a step in a positive direction, toward companies wanting to be more accountable, to not just themselves and not just their own ethical guidelines. Like I know, there's so many wonderful organizations out there trying to create guidelines and research, and I think that that's great, but I also think that is a step towards I would say, at least a company solidifying that they are serious about protecting the rights of creatives and actors and voice actors. What are your thoughts on that? Is that something that you have been looking into or a place where you might go in the future?  08:09 - Tom (Co-host) Absolutely. First of all, sag-aftra is in the United States, so I think it's a great step forward for sure Definitely protects and sets the tone for unions and guilds worldwide. We have been discussing for some time with the BFFS, which is like the SAG-AFTRA or the similar union in Germany. I, just for the sake of discussion, I was invited by them last June to talk about AI in the film industry at the Munich Film Festival and we had a very interactive panel discussion there at that event, and I think that goes back to how we started the discussion today, saying that we need to acknowledge that this is coming and let's be in front of it and have the dialogue and talk about how we do things, and I think that agreement with SAG-AFTRA is important and an important step forward.  08:57 I believe we're going to see similar things happening also worldwide, not only in the United States, and I think also from SAG-AFTRA perspective, it will be their intention to have that type of agreement with as many, I would say, ai companies create some kind of standard in a way.  09:11 - Anne (Host) Yeah, let's talk a little bit about in the technical aspect of things, because, again, I don't work in AI, but I try to learn as much as I possibly can so that I can make educated decisions about how I can go about evolving with the industry as we move forward with the rapid advancements of AI technology, specifically generative AI I mean, is it discussed in any other realm anymore as generative AI? How can artists protect themselves from their unauthorized usage of their voice or their likeness or whatever that might be? I mean, right now there has to be technology that can be put in place so that we might be able to find out if our voice is being used without our permission or our likeness.  09:52 - Tom (Co-host) The reality, I would say, is that technology today allows that to be abused. I mean, that's the reality. And it goes back to what I said before If you're a very famous voice, talent or it could be a talent or just a voice, talent or talent of your voice.  10:10 I mean, or a celebrity, for example, and there's enough information about your voice. We actually today we don't even need a lot. Then your voice can be out there. We don't need much. You know it's like a sentence. Basically, your voice could be out there. The thing is, you know what happens. If it does. You can take it, for example, into places where we see non-entertainment related voices, like political people. You know people from politics where you know their voices can be replicated and can be abused. Actually, you know, especially if we're going into an election year in the United States deep fakes are very real very real, exactly I will say that.  10:49 - Anne (Host) That gives me hope, though, that it is a political season, that maybe it'll get more government level. There may be more action taken quicker because of that. I don't know, that's just. That's just my speculation.  11:01 - Intro (Announcement) But in reality.  11:02 - Anne (Host) So, and even this podcast. I mean gosh, I've had a podcast for seven years. I mean, not only have I done thousands of auditions and given my voice freely, after being paid for a job, to my clients, there are so many ways that my voice has probably already been put into a database somehow. And I think that, technologically speaking, how does deep dub? First of all, how do you create voices? I guess the creation of the voice and then usage of the voice. How do you protect your actors, your voice actors, in both of those cases? Can their voices be used for training other models, and what's the usage requirements?  11:40 - Tom (Co-host) Yeah, and that goes back basically I'm connecting my two answers before basically of first, there is no way really, I mean, everyone can use your voice because your voice specifically, you have that podcast with hundreds of hours it can be used without your knowledge. And then it combined it with partnering with the right company that actually you can trust, that is committed to working with you in terms of doing things in a legal way, in an ethical way and also compensation wise. So this is, if you combine it together. Now it goes back to the way we had deep dub require voices.  12:16 There are two ways for us to acquire voices. First, with non-professional voice actors, where we actually pay them for the voice. We approach people that do not use the voice as their profession and ask them in a very consent way to contribute their voice. They're getting paid for it and once their voice is in, we actually use those voices as the baseline for our bank voices. They're not necessarily going to hear their voice in the outcome, because those voices get transformed internally and mixed with other voices, essentially, and the output is different. But this is the baseline for how to acquire voices.  12:54 - Anne (Host) Yeah, so they're being paid for their voice being a training model then, to generate or create new voices, and then do they get paid if that new voice is being used since they were part of the training model or no?  13:06 - Tom (Co-host) No, not necessarily. No, they're contributing their voice and, again, they're not professional voice actors. They're not getting paid. They're getting paid for the work that they did and they're not gonna see their voice in the output. Also, it's not gonna be their exact voice yet.  13:19 - Anne (Host) Okay. So then now the case of a voice actor. If a voice actor wants to be on your roster.  13:24 - Tom (Co-host) So in a voice actor, it's a different case. A voice actor, their voice is actually going to be in the output and they're going to be paid in the same way as they're getting paid today for doing the voice acting, only that they don't need to be in the studio.  13:40 They could pretty much be anywhere else or be involved in a different job. So, essentially, you know, they're basically going to contribute their voice. We're not going to use their voice for training. We're not going to offer their voice as a bank voice. It's going to be offered as a voice that is essentially a royalty based or not royalty based, but a professional voice actors voice, which, every time this voice is being used for a project, they're going to be compensated for it. Now, mind you, like I said, it's very similar to the way their voice actors are getting paid today. When you participate in a production, you're getting paid for the participation. You're not getting paid for every time this is being broadcasted.  14:22 - Anne (Host) Well, it depends on the type of job. I mean, if it were broadcast media, yes, you would get paid each and every time it gets broadcasted.  14:29 - Tom (Co-host) So yeah, so it depends exactly in the end, and we're talking about the similar level of compensation as if you were doing the actual work, only now it's without attending the studio.  14:39 - Anne (Host) Sure, sure. Now, how does that work in terms of when the voice gets chosen, is the actor then contacted, and then are they privy to how the voice is being used in terms of is it only for dubbing or could it be for other purposes as well? I mean, I may or may not want my synthetic voice, if it sounds like me, to be represented in a movie that might be something that I wouldn't consider myself wanting to be in you know what I mean or a production that maybe would be saying something that I wouldn't particularly want my voice reference to, for people to recognize and say, oh, and then assume that I would be of the same opinion.  15:17 - Tom (Co-host) Yeah, listen, it's a great question. I will say that this is a place where that constantly evolves, because there is no enforcement, because the laws, there is no real legal framework. We're kind of like swimming in an open ocean and trying to define the land. Basically, for us right now, the idea is that when you do this, you're concerning to specific types of work. There is right now we didn't really set it up in that way, but the intention is really to give you the ability to try to actually vet yes or no based on types of work, ahead of basically your voice being used.  15:50 So when you sign up to have the ability to actually say alright, this type of genre is I don't want to be in, but essentially we have a producer of the work that sits down. In a similar way that it's done in a real production, a producer will sit down and is casting voices from a list of voices. They can choose a bank voice or they can use a professional voice. If they use a professional voice, in the end there's an output saying this specific voice actor, their voice, has been chosen. It's not in the intermediary output, but the final output has a professional voice, artist voice in it. Then they're going to get compensated for it.  16:26 - Anne (Host) Got it. Is it on a project by project basis? The payment, the compensation, in terms of how am I compensated? If I can get more in depth, because you know, what's so interesting is that I love you telling me that I'm being compensated. Now the question is okay, so what is that royalty share? What is that percentage? And is it varying depending on the project? Or is that something that I would have any input into negotiating with you? Or is that something and I realize because obviously you have created that synthetic voice and you're the one generating the files that yes, there is a certain percentage? Wise, that is obviously it's your work in generating that voice. Is it something that the voice actor can negotiate or is it you have just across the board? This is the royalty fee and it does it very based on, or some actors more, let's say in demand is one more of a custom voice than others.  17:16 - Tom (Co-host) Yes, yes, yes and yes, yes, it can be negotiated. Okay, yes, some are more in demand and basically it's a yes on all of them. There's like a baseline you can negotiate if you have the ability to negotiate it. So yeah, overall, the answer is yes.  17:31 - Anne (Host) What's the turnaround time? Just out of curiosity, if I would say that you're working on a production and I'm going to assume that these would be films that you're working with in terms of the amount of turnaround time and what this means for, let's say, the dubbing industry, like what is the advantage of using the synthetic voices and also I assume it's not just the voicing in order to make this? I guess a good experience for the consumer. You're also doing video effects as well, is that true?  18:00 - Tom (Co-host) or we're not necessarily focused much on the video side, although we can. We figure we first address the challenge with the voices themselves and then move on to the video. That's coming up as well, the ability to actually change the video, to do a perfect lip sync, but at this point, you know, focusing on the audio itself. So there's like multiple ways of actually creating a production to localize a content. And let's step away for a second from a film, let's talk about a show, because the challenges with the show are, I would say to some extent are bigger, because there's just more content. And especially, what we've noticed is that the challenge becomes substantial, especially when we're talking about a big volume. You know when we're trying to scale it. And why is that? Because now everything becomes when you're working traditionally, everything becomes, you know, sequential, it's all serialized and it takes a lot of time, a lot of effort. You know you need a lot of resources. Think about a show that has I don't know 10 episodes, especially again, if we're talking about catalog content. It could be a show that has I don't know 10 seasons and now localizing it would take a lot of time, would take more than a year. And the thing is that without technology, this project becomes irrelevant, meaning it wouldn't be localized at all. So what happens is that we are suddenly enabling and quite frankly, our first focus is to try to address those because there's so much demand for localizing even sometimes older titles that have new markets and have never been localized, and it's impossible always. So what we do is we're enabling to do this very quick. When I say very quick, I mean we've recently dubbed the voiceover. So there is like difference between voiceover or you know, if you address with scripted, but we've done 100 episodes of 30 minutes in about six weeks for a customer, which is pretty fast. Another project that we've done was eight seasons of a show Again, it's catalog content, but it's still high quality scripted content, french to English that we dubbed 85 episodes in four months, which is without technology. It's just impossible to do it. The speed, or you're just taking the quality, really, really low, yeah. So we're looking at it as an enabler, not necessarily. And when you look at it this way, by the way, I have to mention to say that you should actually consider that not as a something that takes jobs, because those jobs would not have been there at all, because our customers would not dub it traditionally otherwise because the turnaround, time and the costs.  20:32 So what happens in our process? It's never fully automatic. There's always people involved, whether a voice actor, sometimes too, a dubbing director. There's a studio sometimes involved in the process. There are linguists, we have translators. There's a lot of curation. That is done because, like you said, we care about the output. We really is done in a way that will actually be in line with the quality standards for streaming, for example. We have to align on that level of quality, otherwise, you know, we don't have a product. So that's very important. This is where we bring in people to be involved in the production itself.  21:08 - Anne (Host) So I assume that after you are using the synthetic voice for the localization, for whatever it might be, you then have a little bit of post production on that, because I know that with the advances in technology things are really great. But how much are you having to also then additionally work on that to kind of get the emotion, Because of course people are all about it's the emotion that's lacking in the synthetic voices. And so what sort of work is involved these days after the synthetic voice is applied to bring that emotion and to bring that scene to life?  21:40 - Tom (Co-host) Well, first, I must say that there is a lot of work that is done before we even apply the synthetic voices because, again, when we look at it, we look at it from an holistic point of view. At least the deep dove were not only a voice company where an end to end dubbing or localization house. We do the transcription, we do the translation, we have professional translators involved, together with the machine translation, to actually create the adaptation that is specific for that content, whether that's only referencing the cultural aspects or even addressing lip sync related issues, for adaptation related issues. Then we can record in two ways, whether we are using voice conversion or speech to speech. The same way I've seen some of the other guests you had here on the podcast talked about it, so we use that in a similar way or we also have the text to speech option.  22:30 We recently launched our emotive text to speech that allows us to control the emotions of the output of the text to speech, which is also something pretty new and I would say to some extent mind blowing, because it gives us the ability to simulate a performance to some extent right on the output, right, right, we create those voices, whether in this method or the other, then we also mix. We always have a sound engineer at the end of the process where they will be able to take that and if we need to create a 5.1 mix, master the output, deliver it. There is some level of mixing that is also done using AI. That can be done automatically, but we always, always have a person in the process to curate and make sure that the output is in the right quality summits that we're aiming for.  23:20 - Anne (Host) Just my own experience with speech to speech and understanding that speech to speech is not necessarily quicker in one respect, you know what I mean, because there's still an actor that's involved for that source acting. But I can absolutely see that the technology to probably put this together and make it realistic is mind-blowing to me and I actually wish I could see the process, just so I could know even more about it. But until that happens, talk to me about how voice actors can get involved, and I guess do you call it being on the roster, being on your roster? And again, you said there's a vetting process. What's involved if a voice actor is interested in having their voice with your company?  23:59 - Tom (Co-host) So, first of all, like I said, we are already working with voice actors in different regions to provide the performance when we use the speech-to-speech. So we've done this over thousands of hours already. But if voice actors professional voice actors want to join our royalty program, it's as simple as going on our website and signing up to the royalty program. We're in a slow process of bringing people in.  24:23 We're not rushing into it just because we are trying to vet everyone in and trying also not to create an oversaturation, Also on our end we're still a small company, so it does create some burden on us to actually make sure to vet everyone, but we're trying to do this in a very clear way that everyone is on the same page, there's no misunderstandings, and make sure that once we have someone on board, they know exactly what the process is. Go on the website, click the button, join the program, be part of this change.  24:55 - Anne (Host) So one of my last questions is kind of a more generalized question about companies in general, because you are one of the handful of companies that I have spoken to that are actively speaking out and saying that you're supporting and wanting fair compensation for the actors and the creatives involved. So, from an organizational level, from a business standpoint, how can companies that develop and utilize AI act responsibly and manage the IP rights and concerns and ensure that they're respecting the rights of both human creators and AI generated content?  25:26 - Tom (Co-host) I think it starts from the ground up. When you build your platforms, when you build your technology, you have to think of it from the ground up. If you did the majority of the way not thinking about, it is going to be very difficult to now reshuffle everything and now decide oh what? Now I want to be, go ethical and go legal, because you've already built, some from the beginning.  25:49 Exactly, and this is the way we looked at it. This is one thing. The second thing is have dialogues, have communication. You know, listen. Part of the things, the reasons that I went to that Munich Film Festival and actually had several discussions with different units is, first of all, listen, empathize, try to understand the other side, try to understand how we can come up with solutions to actually address those concerns and not necessarily go on the highway and don't stop. So I would say this is the second thing. And the third thing is adapt. The landscape continuously evolves. We're just at the beginning of it in terms of the legal frameworks that are being put in place. So be able to adapt and adjust according to those changes. I think all three are important.  26:32 - Anne (Host) What do you see coming in the future, not only for deep dove and yourself, but the future of AI technology. How do you see it evolving even more?  26:40 - Tom (Co-host) Listen, I don't know if you noticed, but Riverside offers AI transcription.  26:46 - Anne (Host) Yes absolutely, absolutely. My whole podcast is probably using AI. I mean, I use it to generate show notes and video clips, so absolutely.  26:56 - Tom (Co-host) Yeah. So I think in the end, what I think it's going to get to, to a point where AI is going to be part of our lives in a very seamless way. Right now we are very judgmental about it, we're thinking about oh that's AI, and we're nitpicking on everything. But when it becomes seamless, you know it's just like. You know, cell phones in the beginning were bucky and huge and you had to carry a bag for it and it was. You had to actually think about it. Today, it's obvious that you go out of your house with a cell phone. You wouldn't do it otherwise.  27:30 I think at some point, looking to the future, maybe a few years from now, ai is going to be more seamless, more integrated in many ways that are not necessarily trivial to us Even today. The simple ones are like transcription right, I mean, you wouldn't put someone right now to go through the podcast to transcribe it. When AI can do 95% of the work pretty good and the rest of the 5% you can do on your own, it becomes manageable. At the same time, I think that there's still going to be a place for us human beings in the process, basically responsible for the creativity. I don't think a lot of the fear is like AI is going to take our place. It's going to take over the world. Yes, absolutely, skynet is taking over. I think that eventually, what we're going to see is that it's just going to change the way we approach things more curating, more directing and guiding the AI, rather than trying to do it around.  28:23 You know, for me, for example, today I want to write a formal email. I'll just go to chat GPD. It's not that I cannot do it. I can't do it myself and I've been doing it for you know, for years myself. But chat GPD, if I just give it a few point of reference, it'll give me something in seconds. And now I'm going to take it not as it is. I'm going to make a lot of changes in it and make it my own. Yeah, but I have the baseline and I think that's an indication of how it's going to be in the future in many other aspects of our lives.  28:52 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I agree, and I think that as we progress forward, as it becomes more seamless hopefully it also becomes more regulation takes place so that we can be protected, so that it's not being used without our permission or knowledge and AI for good.  29:06 I'm a believer, I want AI for good and I have seen where I think AI is so beneficial in so many ways and it's just a little bit scary to see it when it's not being used in great ways. But I press on and I think bosses out there, we need to educate ourselves so that we can evolve along with it and use it for positive. Use it for good. And, Oz, I want to thank you so much for joining me today. It's just been a pleasure talking with you and thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with us.  29:34 - Tom (Co-host) Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me and I look forward to future podcasts.  29:39 - Anne (Host) Absolutely All right. Bosses, here's your chance to use your voice, okay, not only possibly to do dubbing, but also to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. Visit 100voiceswhocareorg to commit and big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network as humans and bosses, as I just did with Oz. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Thank you.  30:08 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host and Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Voice acting is more than just a dulcet tone; it's about connecting, taking direction, and sometimes swallowing your pride. In this episode, we explore how frustrations in the booth can mirror challenges in personal and business relationships—choosing success over being right is an art in itself. We underscore the importance of humility and remaining teachable in an industry that demands constant evolution. Whether you're a newcomer to the mic or a veteran seeking to refresh your skills, this episode promises to arm you with insights and strategies to elevate your voiceover career. 00:01 - Intro (Host) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:20 - Anne (Host) Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Boss Superpower series. I'm your host, Ann Gangusa, and I'm here with my very special guest boss co-host Lau Lapides. Hey Lau, hey, Annie, how are you I? Am doing amazing. How about yourself? Wonderful? Happy New Year. Happy New Year to you too.  00:40 - Lau (Host) This is our first podcast since New Year's.  00:42 - Anne (Host) That's right. Right, you know I'm starting off the New Year with some new students and I have come across this before and I want to ask you if this has happened to you.  00:53 There are some students if they're just starting out and I know we've spoken about this before Sometimes you don't know what you don't know, and sometimes it's hard for you to hear what you sound like. And there are many students who come to me thinking that they don't need coaching and that they're fine. They just need to be able to create a demo and they sound fine. And people tell them that they have the best voice, and so I like to call them voiceover virtuosos, and I was just wondering if you've come across that as well, where you've had maybe talent that seemed to think that they don't need coaching, or that they're better than maybe they are, and I don't mean to be so bold to say that, but I'm not quite sure how else to explain it.  01:37 - Lau (Host) And this is a really tough kind of non-PC conversation because we want to be kind and have some etiquette, Absolutely, and be courteous. We're not here to rip people apart and make them feel bad about themselves. That's counterproductive to who we are and what we're here for right.  01:52 - Anne (Host) Right and actually Law. I remember when I first started I did not have an ear and I would think to myself I think I'm delivering what I'm supposed to be delivering. It sounds like what I hear out there in the other commercials, and so I don't hear where my coach is coming from. I don't understand their direction, I don't see what I'm doing wrong.  02:11 - Lau (Host) So I don't think I'm doing anything wrong, and so I understand it from that perspective, because, as a talent, I felt that way a little bit myself, and I think it could be a combination of all sorts of things, whether it's lack of resources, whether it's pure laziness, whether it's not having the ear, or it could even be that I don't know what I don't know.  02:33 - Intro (Host) I don't know what I don't know, like I don't know what I'm missing because I haven't done it yet.  02:37 - Lau (Host) I haven't done the training right.  02:39 - Anne (Host) Yeah, and I don't know what it's supposed to sound like.  02:42 - Lau (Host) And so how do I know if?  02:43 - Anne (Host) it's incorrect. And sometimes it ends up being where you're like I don't understand what my coach is saying, and then sometimes you'll question the coach. Even I've actually had some people question the coach. It's so interesting. It's such an interesting phenomenon.  02:58 - Lau (Host) It is an interesting phenomenon and it happens at all levels too that I observe. I had a coaching session for a client, a brand new client, on Saturday and a working actor a working voice actor clearly booking and booking a good ratio overall was frustrated. She wasn't getting the natural read and getting commercial bookings. Long story short, she's a pro, she's working no-transcript. After we did that hour she confessed. She said I have to be honest, law, my mind is a little blown because I didn't even think of any of this stuff. I didn't work on it. I said well, that's our reality. That's why we're always in professional development. Yeah, yeah, there's new ideas, new techniques, new ways of thinking about things that bring out Something in you that you simply can't do on your own. You're not able to do it on your own right.  03:46 - Anne (Host) Well, I think, when it comes down to it, you are providing a service to someone and you need to be able to be directed To the sound that they would like to have, right? There are lots of performances out there that are simply directed to how the person that's directing here's it in their head. Now, does that mean that it is, I don't know, that natural Conversational read that everybody asked for in the specs, because that just seems what everybody asked for a lot of times. No, I mean what comes out in production. It may not be that.  04:19 However, over and over again, casting directors and agents are looking for that read. And I think when you get to the level where you have an agent and you have casting directors that are asking for that, you need to bump up your acting to that level. And just because you're booking Over and over and over again, first of all, consider the source of where you're booking, consider the source of who you're booking with. It might be an e-learning gig, it might be a corporate gig, and they may not be as how shall I put it as Selective, yeah, of a director that's looking for that natural read. Now, myself as a coach law and you as a talent agent, I am always asking my students to give the most natural engaging acting performance, because that is the only way I know to teach my students to be able to have the Versatility to give a director what they want. No matter what they want, whether they want a commercially sounding read, an Announcement sounding read or a natural read and there's.  05:18 - Lau (Host) You know, you can't skip over the fact that there's a fun factor.  05:21 There's a performative fun factor that when you're working with a director or a coach or an outside party who's giving you suggestion, giving you food for thought, pulling things out of you, there should be a right keyword, should there should be this Excitement, this energy, this yeah, herb about doing that and making discoveries and having that audience with you.  05:42 And I think if you miss out on that, you say I don't need any, that I'm gonna skip over as much training as I can, I'm gonna save money. I think you're really skipping over a pivotal part of what makes us us that when we're in the booth alone and when we're doing our own self-tape or whatever we're doing, we can call upon those experiences. It's like a sense memory thing. I can remember what my coach said to me, I can remember how I was directed and then I hear their voice, like as an actor, I literally hear their voice and I can go with that. If I miss all of that, then I almost have to put a lot of stress on myself to create that, to inspire the creation. Yeah, you know what I mean.  06:25 - Anne (Host) I think there's a lot to be said for really knowing the director, or understanding the director that you're working with too, in terms of there's a lot of things that come into play here. Where is this going to air? Is it local versus regional, versus national? Is it going to be an internal website? And so understanding and being able to supply the read that the director is looking for is so very important, and I think that the more you develop your acting skills, the better you can understand that and be able to give that director what they're looking for and also understand, like, for example, I was just discussing with you earlier that I had a local political spot right, and, of course, they ended up putting a ton of verbiage into a 30 second spot, which is almost impossible at the speed.  07:17 I was going to sound natural and engaging and conversational, because I needed to step up the pace. I kind of knew that. I knew, okay, here's a local spot, I'm going to have to step up the pace a little bit. I'm not going to be able to give this person a natural read. They weren't asking for it either, though, and so they really just wanted certain words that were inflected properly, and just having the experience and understanding what they were looking for, I was able to provide it almost I'm going to say not immediately, because there really were too many words for the scripts that we did have to cut out a couple of words.  07:48 But once that happened I mean I had a good idea in the beginning of what they were looking for. And I think as you get more experienced in this field and you start working with different directors, you'll understand. You'll be able to kind of read a director and figure out what it is that they're looking for and then be able to adjust your performance appropriately. But you need to have those acting skills in order to be able to adjust your performance.  08:12 - Lau (Host) That really is what makes you the pro that you are, because it's not only about the talent and the delivery, it's also about the timing, how quickly you work.  08:21 Are you focused, like all the bad habits that we have as people in the world we have to train ourselves out of, and we need help doing that, because sometimes we're just not aware of them that I'm constantly looking at my cell phone to check messages, or I'm fixing my whatever, or I'm not listening, or I'm not acutely taking notes on what I'm hearing, and so that's really important too, to practice that, that taking direction.  08:48 Really, that could be the kiss of death for you. If you're not good at listening, if you're not accurate about interpretation, asking just the right question and giving them what they need, then you look like a time waster, then you look like someone who's just kind of like flailing around and costing a lot of money on the other end, versus someone who can get right to. You know, one of the bad habits that I have a number of actors that do this and voice over, that do this is they explain, they start to get into explanation mode, they start giving the narrative oh, I'm so sorry, and the apologies unnecessarily. I'm so sorry. I was only doing that because you know I was thinking about my mother and not understanding the difference between what is a coaching session and what is a casting session and what is a booking session and what are really the differences, you know, and not expecting something from the wrong person, like I can't expect feedback from casting, necessarily, or from a client necessarily.  09:44 Sure sure, you're either going to book me or they're not going to book me, right? So clients are busy, right? The coaches should be giving me the feedback that I'm looking for. So if you don't do the process, then you don't get the feedback, then you literally are in the dark. Yeah, what you're giving, right? What you're giving out.  10:00 - Anne (Host) It's also hard to and again, we're not trying to shame anybody or make people feel bad.  10:04 It's just simply when you are first starting out and you're questioning. But here I feel like I sound. I sound better than that commercial, I sound better than that person. Again, developing an ear and I think there's a whole scientific process to it as well is what you hear in your head and what you hear in your headphones. If you have your headphones on and you're delivering something or you're recording something is very different than what somebody else is hearing on the other side of the glass.  10:30 I should say across the pond, across the pond on the other side of the glass, because on the other side of the glass they have their own ideas as to what they are looking for. That sound to be like Right and you always want to assume that if they've given you casting specs where they want it to sound natural, like you're talking to your friend Right? There's so many things to take into consideration. Yes.  10:53 And first of all, I'm going to say there are some clues. If it's probably someone who's been in the business for a long time, I think you can bet on the fact that they're going to be able to tell you if you're sounding natural and authentic. And also sometimes, if all they do is automotive commercials, what is it? Tier 3? Cliff Zellman would know this. Tier 3, tier 1. Tier 3 automotive commercials. That's typically a high powered cell. You'll also be able to tell a little bit by how it's written. So I think there are clues that you can research before you're in the middle of that session and also understand that when you're in a live directed session, just like you said, that can be entirely different than when you're in a coaching session. And so when you're in a coaching session with a trusted coach okay, it has to be a trusted coach, and again, that's hard for people that are just coming into the industry who's a trusted coach? Well, there's lots of ways to find that out and I think we probably have a couple of episodes on that.  11:46 How do you know, like, who to coach with? And a lot of times, word of mouth will be one of your best bets on that, and also testimonials and ask around and talk to potential coaches to see what's their experience level. Do they work in the industry? I'm not saying all coaches need to work in the industry in terms of do they need to do voiceover. There's very few out there that are good that they're not actually voice artists, but they're actors, they're teachers who teach acting as well. But also, if you've got a coach that works in the industry, that's going to be helpful too. And if you're new, just because you're frustrated and that's a big thing law that I see is that people get so frustrated and when they don't understand well, I don't understand what you're asking for, or I don't understand what I'm doing wrong, or you're not.  12:34 - Intro (Host) And they start to argue and they say you are not.  12:36 - Anne (Host) I don't understand your direction, and so they'll start to put the blame on the fact that there's not good direction. Now, sometimes there isn't good direction, right, sometimes there just isn't if you're not with somebody who may have been in the industry for a while and is good, which is why I don't love pure lead workout groups law only because I don't either. When you're listening to direction from another peer, who may not have enough experience.  13:00 - Lau (Host) that may set you on the wrong path, in a way though, annie, isn't it good in the sense that you're going to get bad direction at times? Yes, you really are Like we can't assume that. Oh, they're professional, they're a company, they're going to give us great direction. Sometimes you're being directed by Jim in Cubicle C who knows nothing Absolutely. It's kind of an interesting improv exercise to learn how to say yes and learn how to say oh. That's interesting, okay, let me try that. Oh, how, wow, okay, and you're thinking what? That's ridiculous. I don't even know how he came up with that.  13:32 - Anne (Host) That's half my directed session. That's your whole world.  13:35 - Lau (Host) But the point is that's the reality, right. We have to deal with that Absolutely. We have to be able to tolerate that and you have to be able to deliver and not argue.  13:41 - Anne (Host) Not argue it Not question that you have to be able to deliver what they're asking for and, by the way, anybody that coaches with me, of course you can give me the read that you hear in your head, but that's not the read I'm looking for and even if the script doesn't seem like that's what it's written for. That's the biggest argument I get is people are like but the script isn't written that way and I'm like I don't care.  14:00 The worst thing is that you'll get a script that's written very advertising, very selly, and then you'll get the specs that say give me something like you're talking to your best friend, and then, ultimately, my student will deliver it the way it's written and very advertising and very annoncery and other things. But that's not what I asked you for, but that's not how it's written. I'm like that doesn't matter. I'm asking you to give me a very engaged read and that is a very tough read and one of the reasons why I insist on that is because if you can get yourself to that level, to a very engaged, authentic read, when it's written very advertising, very selly, that's going to get your acting skills Up to the level that I think you need to be able to give versatility.  14:43 - Lau (Host) Yeah. And ask yourself this question, which really we could ask ourselves in a lot of situations like being married. I've been married 23 years. Sometimes I literally have to self direct and say, all right, do you really want to argue that? Do you really? Is it that important to argue that? Do you want to be right, yeah, or do you want to have a happy marriage? So, in terms of your business relationships, do I always want or need to be right, yeah, yeah, absolutely or do I really want to have success in this connection? And I choose the latter. I try very hard to choose the latter. By the way, did you see that catch of the light falling over? That's my theater experience.  15:21 - Anne (Host) I don't know if you caught that. No, I didn't, it was falling right on me.  15:24 - Lau (Host) I was making a point, I put it right there. That's kind of like the metaphor of life. You always have things falling on you, right, but it's just kind of like is it more important to have it perfect or is it more important to have it done? Just get it done, please, the client, have that callback for the next job. It's not that important that I make the point that the script is wrong.  15:46 - Anne (Host) Oh God, absolutely. That's the last thing you want to do.  15:47 - Lau (Host) That's what I'm trying to say we never answered that funny question at the top about how do we deal with all the talent that come in and they really kind of think they're ready for certain things they're not ready for.  16:01 - Anne (Host) Well, and then there's always the difficult position. If they think that they don't need additional coaching or additional sessions, then they think that you're trying to take advantage of them.  16:11 - Lau (Host) Oh, of course, and make money, yeah, to make money, that's right.  16:15 - Anne (Host) I mean, look, I guess you just have to know who you're working with and there is a level of trust you have to have. And again, it's so hard for people that are just starting out in the industry and we always emphasize to see if you click with your coach, Trust your gut instincts as well about your coach. I'm going to say and I'm going to say that, like if you don't know the industry and if you start questioning your coach, then it becomes like is that a relationship that you want to continue? If you're?  16:44 at that level where you're questioning if what they're saying to you is correct, exactly.  16:49 - Lau (Host) And if all else fails, you have to do what we used to do in the theater when we'd go to see our friends in a really bad show and a really bad performance, and they'd always come out backstage and go what did you think of it? Did you like it? I was like great, I worked hard. You have to think diplomatically. What would you really say to them? And we would have a ball coming up with things like. That was interesting. You really challenged yourself. I was moved. I mean, you really surprised me there, right?  17:19 So you have to think about how do you respond to people that really need a lot more. They need more training, they need more time, they need a better demo. And they're like oh, I just spent 3,000 on this demo. You telling me I suck. I'm like no, I'm saying this is your starter demo. This is your first demo. It's a process demo. It's good for what it is. Now you want to get to the next level of things. It's not about yes, no, right, wrong. It's not structurally black and white in that way. It's much shades of gray shades of gray nuance, nuance, nuance. You know what I mean? Absolutely. And the talent has to realize that it's not. You're good and it's done, or you're not good and it's not done.  18:00 - Anne (Host) Gosh, that's so true. It's not like, okay, I'm good, I have my demo, I'm good, I'm ready, I'm ready, I don't need any additional training. I'm constantly telling my students actors spend their lives honing their craft. Yes, I feel as though, like if you're thinking about like Meryl Streep, do you think Meryl Streep achieved her acting from the get-go, from the very beginning? Has she not, over the years, improved, taken on more challenging roles and just really challenged herself?  18:28 And I think that, as voice actors, we all need to do that, whether you're just starting out even if you get booking after booking, after booking after booking and again understand who your client is. If you're doing a lot of e-learning, you may not have a very demanding client. They may just want you to read it nicely and articulately. But when your coach says to you, please do not just read it to me, I want to feel as though you're my teacher, I want to be able to listen to you for the next two hours and be engaged, then understand there's a reason why they're saying that and maybe not question that and say, well, it's good enough, because I think to really get to the upper echelon right, to make it and to be successful, it takes time.  19:12 It does, and I think there should be a whole episode of like how long does it take? I know I've done it before, but I feel like it bears with eating. Yeah, and there has to be. It can take more than a year and honestly, it should take more than five or six sessions with a coach to be a good actor. Goodness gracious. No, it takes much longer than that.  19:31 - Lau (Host) Absolutely, absolutely. And just know that there has to be an element, or there should be an element, of humility and being humble and having some modesty about your work. I always have a red flag If I work with people that they're very egocentric and they're all that. They're great. You should recognize that I feel like the best actors talent colleagues I know are people that have value. They recognize their confidence level, their self-esteem. But there's a lot more to learn.  20:01 There's always there always so humble I think there isn't that sense of like. You're talking to me. You know who you're talking to. I'm a pro. I always have a red flag about that, because I feel like they've stopped their process.  20:13 - Anne (Host) They stopped their learning, they stopped their growth, they stopped their learning.  20:16 - Lau (Host) Yeah, they stopped their growth and they're going to challenge you. They're going to question you, they're going to argue with you, they're going to take it up with you if you don't agree with their mindset, and so I think they're going to be harder to direct harder to work with. Yes, yes, yes. So I think it all goes hand in hand. It's like be kinder, be more open and modest, be a little bit. I'm not saying be insecure about who you are.  20:37 I'm saying have security, have confidence, have joy about who you are and what you're doing, but also leave a lot of space for growth and development and discovery. You have to have humility in order to do that. You can't think you've done it all and know it all and are ready for everything. None of us are ready for everything, yeah.  20:55 - Anne (Host) Yeah, agreed, agreed. And also, when you are challenged from your coach right, and there's something that you're not agreeing with, try to keep an open mind. I think that's the one thing that we can ask of you as an actor try to keep an open mind about what they're saying. So try not to take it so personally, number one, like when somebody is telling you that this is not. I don't think a coach will say, oh, that was horrible. But there are some that might say, oh God, no, no, no, no, no. Let's try that again, and it might be, really fighting with your confidence level.  21:30 So really just try to. When you're being challenged by your coach, try to keep an open mind, try to not take it personally, and I know it's so difficult to do that because to me it's like, oh my God, like you're telling me, I'm not good, and that's the first thing that comes into my head. I'm like, oh my God, I'm not good, I'm not good.  21:47 - Intro (Host) And so then that just ruins the next read.  21:50 - Lau (Host) It's a catapult and don't explain. Yeah, don't narrate, don't explain, don't justify, don't do any of those things, because it's not a blame game. It's a time to give more information and more detail. And then on our side, we promise, annie, and I promise not to say things like don't quit your day job.  22:09 - Anne (Host) Exactly, exactly, unless it's a joke unless it's a complete joke and that you're aware of it, of course.  22:14 - Intro (Host) But yeah, I basically don't say that.  22:16 - Anne (Host) But I am tough, I don't want to waste my student's time and I don't want to waste my time, and so if a read is not going the way that I like it, I will say nope, nope, I'm going to stop you right there and let's pick it up again. I'm not going to have you go through an entire read and then I'll say no, because, first of all, I think that for a lot of the work I do, it's long reads anyways, it's long format, and so it's better if I stop at the point where I can make a teaching moment and the student can learn from it at that particular time. But sometimes people will get discouraged by that and it's such a tough thing it really is Because, again, what we do is so personal.  22:54 And if a coach is continually stopping. Nope, nope, that's not it. Nope, that's not it. Okay, I don't believe you, I don't feel that You're not connected, and that's what you can look for with your coach.  23:04 - Lau (Host) Right, how does your coach respond to you, give you feedback, give you critique? Do they lose their temper? Are they getting angry? Are they getting irritated? Is it taken personally? I mean, just start looking for that.  23:14 - Intro (Host) Right.  23:14 - Lau (Host) Some people love that. I've had people come to me and say look, be tough on me, S&M style, rip me apart. I'm tough and you know, the funny thing is the first thing I say they fall to pieces because I can be really tough and they're like Really, Are you really think that I'm like? I thought I could be tough, so? But I mean, I think that there's a professional barrier there. Yeah, absolutely, that you have to pay attention to just as a best practices protocol. Yeah, you don't want people tearing you down. You don't want people making you feel bad about being a person and what you're doing and the choice that you're making in your career. You want someone to say I'm going to make the leap of faith and assume you want to be doing this, You're going to get good at this and you care about it. Now let me take you to the next level of where you're at.  23:58 - Anne (Host) I work with people all the time because long format narration right, and it's tough. Yeah, I work with people at a very intense level and so it's frustrating. People think they're going to get it by tomorrow and it's one of those things. It's no, it's just really difficult. I really ask a lot of my students and so there are a lot of times my students will get very frustrated and they will start to take things very personally. But it is not that at all for me.  24:22 I mean, I'm an educator and anybody that's worked with me knows my heart of hearts is to educate and that is what I try to do. And even though it is very tough sometimes then it becomes like not only am I educating on the acting part of it, but then there's the whole mentality part of it where you've got the added oh gosh, now I'm hurt, right. Or I've instructed somebody, I've given them direction and they have now taken it personally, and so that then is also affecting their retake or their read again, and so there's a lot of things that can build up. So just know that if you've got a good coach that's working with you, their intent is to really make you a better actor. I think that's something that your gut intuition can really tell you a lot about that.  25:05 - Lau (Host) Yeah, and be honest with yourself.  25:07 Like, take a checkpoint and say how much honesty am I willing to take? Can I put on a little bit of armor and be able to take the truth? I've had a lot of people say law, just be truthful with me. I'd appreciate it, because they're spending money and they're spending time, and so truth does not mean like kick my butt. It does not mean like rip me to shreds. It means be truthful about what your perception is, so that I can get better. That's all it is. You know what I mean. Absolutely. I love this Great conversation.  25:37 - Anne (Host) Yes, law. Oh, my goodness, wonderful conversation. So, bosses out there, we know, we know you can do it, but I want you to just give yourself some grace, listen to your gut and really find a trusted coach that you can work with and work through all of this, because it's not something that's simple and, more than likely, if you haven't been doing this for a few years now, you may not be as good as you think you are, and I mean that in the nicest way possible, I mean that in the most teacher-centric way possible. So give it a shot, guys. All right, yeah. So take a moment and imagine a world full of passionate, empowered, diverse individuals giving collectively and intentionally to create the world that they want to see. You can make a difference and you can find out how at 100voiceswhocareorg. Also, big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too, can connect to network like bosses. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. See you next week, bye, bye.  26:42 - Intro (Host) See you next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, ann Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.  27:09 - Anne (Host) Hey bosses, woohoo, I'm so excited to announce our third audition demolition coming up live September 27th and our uh, it died. Ugh. Oh, all right, damn it. Good morning, kiss me off. Kiss me off. That was good. I didn't know. F***ing sh**. Audition deadline the 20th. Okay, september 27th, all right, that's my problem. I just don't have it in front of my face, so that'll end up with bloopers.   

In this episode, we talk all about relationships with your agents! We provide insightful advice on timing your communications effectively, being respectful of the recipient's time, and staying top of mind by sending short, meaningful messages. Also, we stress the importance of following up and consistently being professional. In the latter part of the episode, we highlight the essence of open communication and mutual trust between voice actors and agents. So, whether you're a voice actor looking to break into the industry or an established talent seeking ways to enhance your networking game, this podcast episode has you covered. Join us as we bring you the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today! 00:01 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:20 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Boss Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with my lovely, amazing boss, co-host Lau Lapides. Thank you, ann, awesome to see you today. Hey Law, yes, so awesome to see you too.  00:38 So the other day I was prepping for a new year of my VO Peeps group, where I have guest directors come in once a month to do online workshops, and the very popular ones are typically ones that have agents such as yourself and casting directors. And I was going through the list okay, what casting directors, what agents do I know? And there are some agents that I don't know but I would like to know, and agents that I do know that I've dealt with before, and I thought there has to be a protocol because I need to introduce myself to them. Right, and I know a lot of people when they want to get an agent, they have to introduce themselves to an agent, and so I thought it would be a good time to talk about protocol when working with an agent or reaching out to an agent or casting director and then maintaining a relationship.  01:29 - Lau (Host) That's a great topic. Let's talk about that. Yeah, absolutely.  01:33 - Anne (Host) So I'm going to ask you, because you are an agent, so tell me, what is your preferred method of? Let's say, a new talent wants to be represented by you. What do you recommend, or how do you prefer that someone reaches out to?  01:48 - Lau (Host) you Right, that's a great question.  01:50 I'm one of those people that is out in the world, so I'm not just at the office, I'm also out in the world.  01:55 So I'm speaking at conferences, I'm invited to events, I'm doing online training. I'm like all over the map and partly it's to educate and partly it's to meet new talent, and I make that very clear. I'm very transparent about that and that's a very New York LA sentiment for actors that if they want to meet casting and agents, they oftentimes will take classes, they'll work with those people in the training, in the conference, in the group, so that they can see a little bit of their work or at least get to talk to them, because I feel like a human interface is so much better for me than just getting an email if possible. So I love it when people are in a class, in a group, in a session, and they point themselves out, and that could be as simple as maybe they ask a really smart question or maybe they volunteer to do a read, if they're allowed to do a read, or maybe they put their contact information in the chat if it's online.  02:51 My point is I love proactive people because I know proactive talent are going to be much easier to work with than talent who's passive or shy or just unknowing or newbie and they're waiting for magic to happen. I love people who are partnering with me and creating magic on their own too, so I love when they reach out in person at an event, at a class, at a happening. Number one that's my favorite. If it doesn't happen that way, it's okay to email and submit. I welcome that and I need that because we're still growing our roster. However, I will say one thing Kiss it, keep it short and sweet. I get too many emails and I know you do as well that are three, four, five, six paragraphs long, telling me everything that's going on. Do it Even with someone. I know I can't get through it. I just don't have the time to read through that whole thing. Just one paragraph right and just throw in your links.  03:51 - Anne (Host) I think anytime you send an email these days, the shorter and the sweeter you can make it the better, the better. Every person has time to read a full page of email.  04:03 - Lau (Host) No, and I need to see it right up front, like we call it, above the fold. So if I get to the website for instance, if you have a website that's terrific. Anything you have online I just need to see it quickly. If I have to scroll all the way down or go to another page, it's hard because I don't know what I'm looking for and I don't always want to hear all of the animation, demos or all of the other kinds of work that you do. It's a great reference point to have, but I don't always need that. So targeting the person you are courting is really important. If I'm courting a commercial agent, the commercial agent just isn't going to be as interested oftentimes in your animation work.  04:40 They'll like to know you have it, because they'll consider you're working pro, but they may not represent that kind of work versus an animation production house. You have to have your animation demos with an S, not just one, but more than one, and that's got to be front and center. So I say target your market, know exactly who you're reaching out. To. Keep it short and sweet, kiss it. Keep it short and sweet and give them exactly what they're looking for upfront. If they want more info, they'll ask you.  05:08 - Anne (Host) Oh, I like that. So how do we know what information to send?  05:12 Because here's the thing, right, let's say, if there is an opportunity to meet them in an online workout or at a conference, that's a great way to get in front of an agent and I think that that has worked really well for a multitude of students I know that have gotten taken on a roster after they've appeared in a workout at VOPEAPS and also at conferences. I've seen that work out really well for people. But what if there are some agencies that maybe are not looking to fill their roster just yet, or maybe their roster is full but yet people want to introduce themselves and maybe make an impression? Is that a favorable thing to do and how should they do that?  05:48 - Lau (Host) Absolutely. And you have to remember just because you're in front of someone does not mean they're interested in working with you. It doesn't mean they're even interested in receiving a submission from you. So I do find the more I meet fellow agents and casting and producers, the more articulate they are. If they're on a panel or if they're doing a workshop, they'll tell you oftentimes the very straightforward people and they'll say hey, yeah, I'd like to see your submission, I'd like to see your work, or no, I don't give out my contact information. I'll check in with you in a couple of months if I need anything. So typically they're pretty articulate to say if they're comfortable you contacting them or not.  06:27 And if you do contact them, what exactly are you contacting them for? They don't fool around across the board. They wanna know exactly who you are and what you want. What are you contacting them for? Otherwise you're bothering them. You know what I mean. Like it's a typical letter that you would send out to any prospect in business. Like say don't give me your life story, no one cares. What they care about is why are you coming to me? Sure, what are you looking for?  06:53 - Anne (Host) And I think that it's very important to understand. Just as in direct marketing, I deal with this with the VO, boss Blast, right. I have a lot of clients that are like look, I sent out my marketing materials to all these people on the list but nobody's contacted me. It's very much a timing issue, meaning there has to be a need. It's not like you've submitted auditions right. When somebody's come to you with auditions, right here I've got an audition for the spot. There is a need, right. It's a demonstrated need that I've got a commercial I'm producing or I've got some sort of promotion that I'm going to produce and I need a voice artist or I need a voice actor for that. When you're direct marketing and kind of saying hi, I'm here, can I get on your roster you don't know at what time you're reaching right. Is there a need for you on that roster? And if not, it's gotta be one of those things where it's a gentle sort of inquiry into and, as you said, keep it short and sweet, because otherwise you are bothering them because maybe there is no need.  07:54 And I always go back to my old how do we buy? How do we purchase, how do we acquire things, or how do we get things that we need Right now? It's been a crazy holiday season, right? So I am signed up for all these mailing lists, right? And I get three or four emails a week from the same companies, but yet I don't have a need for anything that they have. But when I do have a need, I'm then looking at that subject line, I'm looking into the email, and that's a very important part of determining whether I'm going to read that email and then purchase or, let's say, entertain the option of having somebody on my roster.  08:34 So the timing has to be right, and so sometimes you could send emails and nothing happens, and that's very true, I think, with reaching out to Asians or casting directors, right. I mean, you may not get any response, and then you might be like, oh gosh, have I done the right thing? And I'll tell you that, the one thing that you want to do, just as in yourself, right? You don't want people to be annoying. You don't want to read a book because I don't have time to get through that book. It needs to be short and to the point and respectful of their time.  09:04 - Lau (Host) I would agree, oh my gosh, totally agree. And I would say, you know, it's the old FOMO thing. It's like keep top of mind. If they see you, enough, you're branding yourself, so you're seeing you they get to psychologically feel that you've been in business forever. Even though you've been in business for two years, they start to say, oh, they've been around, I don't want to miss out on just seeing quickly what John Smith is doing like and then they trash it. Great, that's what you want. So that then when they have the need, they think John Smith, I always get his stuff right. So it's that sort of keeping your finger on the pulse of what is happening in all of their worlds and not falling into that mindset that you and I speak about all the time, the narcissism of, like I'm ready to work, I'm here, why aren't they hiring me? Well, they don't need you.  09:51 - Anne (Host) Right, top of mind is so interesting for an agent, right, like I love that. We said you do need to be top of mind. So that means you reach back out, right. If you don't hear anything, you reach back out. But how often, law? This is the question. How often do we reach out Now for marketing and soliciting voice acting services?  10:09 I think you can reach out to somebody once, twice a month, three times a month, and if you give them the option to unsubscribe right For direct marketing, that's awesome. I personally think we should add that option to unsubscribe if you're reaching out too many times to an agent or a casting director, because that will tell you right away if they have a need or not, or it shows that you're considerate of their time. And I actually just kind of came up with this right now. I'm like gosh, that would be nice, a nice option, if you just threw at the end of your email just say hey, I would love to connect with you. Please let me know I'd like to follow up with you. Maybe not next week, but I'd like to follow up with you in a few months. If you would prefer that I don't, please let me know by hitting reply and that kind of thing.  10:52 - Intro (Announcement) I love it.  10:52 - Anne (Host) I think that would show number one, that you're considerate of their time. Number two, that you know how to conduct yourself professionally and not be a pain in the butt, because I know that when people send me unsolicited emails, I get annoyed. If there's more of them that come in the next day, or what happens in I have Gmail, it shows in a thread. So I see like, oh, you've sent me five emails already pretty much following up and I have not responded to you, so you would think take me off your list, right?  11:19 - Lau (Host) Right and I think that that's honestly. I think it's inferred nowadays that if I don't want to get your stuff, I go to the bottom of your email. I find my preferences, I find my M subscribe me or my assistant can do it in like 15 seconds. It's okay, I'm used to doing that. It's like that's part of our thing that we do these days. But most of the time I actually don't do it, unless it's a big box store or a huge corporation that I have no interest in at all.  11:42 I want to know what my talent's doing. I want to know what prospects are doing, and what we will say is we try to be really kind, both as the studio and an agency. So if someone comes in and they're sending me their stuff and they're not a good fit, we'll write to them, we'll let them know. We won't just let them hang in the balance. We'll say, hey, you're not a good fit for our roster right now. Could you please come back and check in in the next three to six months? Perhaps you'll have updated materials, perhaps you'll have a couple of cool jobs to share with us and we'd like to relook at that later which we would we would, and that's really nice of you, but not all agents will do that.  12:16 No no, they won't, and so if they don't.  12:18 - Anne (Host) I think that it's absolutely a professional thing to actually, in the email at the very end, just say I would like to contact you in three to six months Again, if that would be okay with you. If not, please let me know that kind of thing and that just shows that you are respectful of them and their time. And also don't forget, bosses, to really research the person that you're sending out to, like you should know like what is this agency specialized in? What does their roster look like already? Are you filling a hole in that roster? Because, again, there has to be a need. I have to have a need to buy from Old Navy that pair of shorts or that T-shirt.  12:55 - Lau (Host) I'm glad you said that Because so few people are Googling or going to websites Like you should be. Before you blast anyone, go to the website. Make sure they're legit, see where they're located, see if that's the market you want to cover. See the kinds of voices that they're working with. Now when do you fit in that whole realm? It only takes you five minutes or less to do that. And let's say you're going to paste. What I call pasting is doing a blast of like 50 or 100.  13:20 - Intro (Announcement) So spend a Saturday doing a little bit of research.  13:23 - Lau (Host) It's worth it, because what if they're interested in working with you, then you know nothing about them, right? You want to have some working knowledge if you meet with them or if you go back and forth with them. I also want to say any, too, because so many talent have a lot of reps, which is great if they're freelancing, if they're not signed exclusively, they should. Our agency is freelance, not exclusive, so we know they're going to work with six or eight or 10 different people. Sure, keep them straight, keep them straight. Here's what we found. We found a number of auditions that come in every couple of auditions have the wrong slate on them, with the wrong agency, because agencies, as we all know, on the national front, will get some of the same science and some of the same scripts and be very careful that you don't do.  14:11 We were really offended by that oh gosh, yes, I would be offended because number one, that told us they weren't playing it back and listening to it, but number two, that they would send that in. And number three is, like, have an awareness of like who's sending you what and who's doing what I'm just going to say.  14:27 - Anne (Host) Way to get yourself kind of blacklisted.  14:29 - Intro (Announcement) You know what I mean. We didn't do that, but we were making an impression when you do that.  14:35 - Anne (Host) And that impression sometimes lasts for a long time.  14:38 - Lau (Host) We won't forget that. We know exactly the people that did that and they didn't do it on purpose and we're not going to have any malice towards them, but we're watching them. If they do it again, they could be dropped, because we don't want to not hear that, because we're too busy. Send it out to a client and then it goes to another agency. Okay, so that's one thing. The other thing too is like when you sign a contract and I'm sure most of these places you're going to have you sign a freelance agreement of some kind. Read it. Some of the folks are not reading it.  15:07 And we've had a few people that don't have source connect and they're up for bookings and we're like wait a second, you signed her agreement. It said right, we've dropped a couple people over that, because we're like, we're not going to be at your home doing this for you.  15:21 You got to do it for yourself and that's sad, but it's like that's the nature of the protocol and etiquette scene. Oh, another question. We get to law. I don't want to offend anyone, so if I'm getting the same script from a couple different offices, how should I treat that? For us, it's very simple. For me, it's simple. You do my script. Well, some offices do say that they actually threaten the talent. I've heard that behind the scenes they will threaten the talent to drop them if they don't do theirs, which I don't like that. I don't like scare tactics. I would say it's up to you. You can either go with the first one that sent it to you for time sensitivity, just go with the first. Or, if they're coming in the same time, two or three offices, just choose the one you have the best for them.  16:01 - Anne (Host) I agree, I agree.  16:02 - Lau (Host) It's up to you. We're not going to be offended in any way. Oh, and the other thing I want to say too is please and I'm only talking for us, I'm not talking about every other agency, I'm only talking about MCVL Don't tell us you're passing on a job, just pass, because we could get 20, 30, 40, 60 emails saying sorry on vacation, sorry, I'm passing, sorry I'd be like it's okay, we got plenty of talent. We're going to be submitting for this, it's okay. I think sometimes talent feel like I'm being selected personally for this audition.  16:37 - Anne (Host) I feel like I have an agent who does select personally, and so if I can audition, they will get upset if I don't. But you would know that. See, that's the thing. You should know your agent enough. Exactly, you should know your agent enough.  16:48 - Lau (Host) Yes, we do that too. So if we have a hand selection, we'll say, hey, we chose you for this Exactly, or our producer asked for you and we did it. You would know that. Otherwise, just assume it's coming to a number of people, not just you, right? Unless you hear from them.  17:03 - Anne (Host) Well, I remember when I initially signed with you, I was like, look, if I cannot respond to an audition, you won't be offended, right, because I do have an agent. That will be like, no, why did you not respond? And you were like, no, that's entirely fine, that is up to you, and so it behooves you to understand or have a relationship enough with your agent so that you know about these things.  17:23 - Intro (Announcement) You know if it's appropriate to respond, Just ask Now look.  17:26 - Anne (Host) How do you feel about people keeping up with you on their latest accomplishments? I think new demos are always good. Hey, you know, I just produced a new commercial demo. I wanted to send it to you so you can have an update.  17:39 - Lau (Host) Yeah, they do it, annie, they do it, it's fine, our pros do it. Pros in the roster will do it. That they'll say, hey, we got a new demo or we just did a job for this, or whatever. Tim and I always give really positive feedback and it's really great Just to kind of know what's happening. I don't need that. If you're not represented by us, I really don't need that. What I would need is, clearly you're submitting to the agency. So every couple months, just send a nice little letter and have your website updated and that's enough. We don't need to hear every single thing that you're booking or everything that you're doing, unless it's so huge. Now we kind of have to know about it.  18:13 You know what I mean Just be careful how much time and brain space you try to take up of people that you're working with. Less is always going to be more. I also wanted to talk to you about something that recently happened with one of our roster talent quite by accident, I think, not intentionally and that was this person auditioned for a gig in September and the clients didn't make their decisions. They're now whittling it down and checking availability. So we put it out to the couple talent we're checking.  18:42 - Anne (Host) That's three months bosses. By the way, that can happen, just FYI, over three months. Yes, over three months.  18:47 - Lau (Host) Yes. And this person came back and said, yeah, I'm going to pass on this because it's not up to speed with the rate guidelines that I'm looking at and I'd feel more comfortable and I know this talent and their phenomenal right. And we came back and we said, listen, we have to tell you you already auditioned for it. You forgot about it. Here's the MP3 right here and you have, in essence, agreed to the terms that you auditioned for. That's not to say we're not ready and able and willing to go fight for some more money, which we do, fight for more usage, which we do. That's like innate with us to do that. And that talent came back because they're a fabulous person, and said, oh, I'm so sorry, I literally forgot. It's okay, I'll follow through, I'll execute, I'm available, I got my source connect. That's what we call a mensch in the industry. That's a good person. That's a person that says, okay, I may not move forward on those kinds of jobs in the future, but I already accepted those terms when I auditioned.  19:43 - Anne (Host) That we make really clear, like because we may not be able to get more money on that or more stuff on that, sure and it shows that you're working together in partnership, and I think that that is something that is so important for voice actors to understand that it's not a one way relationship. It really is a give and a take and you are working together in partnership to get this job. I mean, you're both there to satisfy the client and make some money, and I feel that if a voice actor is not gonna follow through or they're gonna all of a sudden become difficult and then start demanding I mean, look, I am all about getting a fair wage and getting fair compensation for our voices, and I think we've been fighting for that all along, and if you don't have belief in your agent that they are also fighting that battle for you right then maybe you shouldn't be together anymore.  20:33 I mean really.  20:34 - Lau (Host) I mean that's the job of the agent. I mean the job is not just to accept the terms and say, oh this is great whatever, but to say, okay, that's what we call leveraging.  20:43 So if we have a great talent that comes on because, remember, the talent is not seeing the relationship in the background that you have to assume there's this whole like a horse with blinders on, there's this whole thing going on that you're not privy to. That is, how well do we know the client? Can we go back and forth with them? Can we shimmy, which we always try to do? Tim is great at it and I try, on my end as well, to say, hey, we got you another 500 bucks and another 1,000 bucks on that one because they saw the logic behind it or they saw it was difficult to get the talent for it. But the truth is I know the truth is non-PC, but the truth is, if this talent decided not to do it, I would still love this talent because they're awesome person and fabulous, but we can replace them in a second. That's just the truth of it.  21:31 I have a hundred people in that category right now, ready to sort of kill nuns to get that job. So it's not something that our agency would be willing to give up. So it's a balance, is what I'm saying? Like, we wanna be fair to the talent, we wanna be fair to the client, we wanna have good working practices, we wanna come back and do more work. So we're pushing. We're always like pushing, pushing, pushing. But sometimes you have to stay and you have to make the decision if you're gonna move forward or not. And it's okay. If you don't, there's other talent who will.  22:02 - Anne (Host) Absolutely Another great discussion. So I think always important to really just get to know your agent, get to know your manager and really educate on the agency. Educate and really be a human being. I think Just be a good human being because that's really when it comes down to it. We are interacting with human beings and we both want a positive experience as a voice actor and as an agent.  22:27 - Lau (Host) And if you do get a manager, I would say make sure the manager knows your agencies and works well with them. You don't wanna hide people under the rug, you wanna have a team, have a team approach. A lot of people feel like if they tell me about their other agencies they're cheating on me in the marriage and I don't treat it that way. I feel like you're making a viable career that makes me happy. That you book something somewhere, it's great. So have that team approach Makes you more marketable for you actually.  22:53 - Anne (Host) So yeah, for sure. All right, bosses, simple mission, big impact, 100 voices, one hour, $10,000 four times a year. Bosses, visit 100voiceshoocareorg to join us and big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses, like Law and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.  23:21 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Ann Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.  23:51 - Lau (Host) And it's 4th of July. I noticed that I have no idea why.  23:54 - Anne (Host) Move your mouse. Maybe that's so funny. I don't have a mouse.  23:58 - Lau (Host) Oh, my God, that's so funny. I'm back. I don't have any mouse. This is amazing. It's almost like your screen.  24:03 - Anne (Host) It's almost like your screen is going to sleep or you're making it Going to sleep.  24:08 - Lau (Host) Yeah, or you're making it explosive, I'm making it explosive, I love that.   

Anne Ganguzza and Tom Dheere, discuss fresh strategies to balance work, health, and personal life while excelling in the voiceover industry. We share our trials and triumphs in navigating the voiceover industry from home. We open up about the challenges we've faced transitioning from a structured office job to the freedom of working remotely, and we discuss the importance of creating our own systems and structures for success. Tapping into our entrepreneurial spirit, we delve into time management strategies that have kept us afloat in the world of self-employment. This episode is chock-full of practical tips and insights. So get comfy and join us as we demystify working from home in the voiceover industry. 00:01 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VEO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:20 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VEO Boss Podcast and the Real Bosses series. I'm your host, anne Gangusa, and I'm here with my real boss co-host, mr Tom Dheere. Hey, tom.  00:32 - Tom (Co-host) Hello, hello, hello, hello how are you, I'm good, how are you?  00:35 - Anne (Host) I'm excellent. You know, Tom, I dressed up today just a little bit. I still got a little bit of sparkle going on here and if you're just listening to this, bosses, you'll just have to trust me on this. But I did dress up, and you know that's very unusual, tom, because I work from home. And I cannot tell you how many times I'm in the booth here in my sweats and t-shirt and shorts, or whatever it might be.  00:58 And that's one of the advantages that I really love working from home. But I'll tell you what. I've known a lot of people that work from home and it can be a real adjustment. I think we should discuss that and let's talk about what it means really to work from home, because sometimes it's really hard to be productive or sometimes it's hard to stop working.  01:17 - Tom (Co-host) Yeah, that's one of the biggest challenges for people who are transitioning from being in a full-time or part-time environment, possibly for decades, and then coming home and then working from home. One of the biggest challenges is that if you get a job and you someplace you go to whether it's an office or a restaurant or a bank or wherever that you're working you have a set job description with set hours and you're supposed to do this then and that then, and this is when you can have a lunch break and this is when you go home and this is how much vacation you can take.  01:48 - Anne (Host) Yeah 95.  01:49 - Tom (Co-host) And a lot of people are like, oh, I hate it, it's so oppressive, da-da-da. But then they come home and then there's zero structure, there's almost no job description.  01:58 Apart from auditions and bookings, there are no deadlines. So at first the newfound freedom is very liberating and refreshing, but then they're like I have no idea what to do. I have no self-discipline, so I'm kind of all over the place. And to your point, and since I don't have any set hours, some people are working two hours a day, some people are working 14 hours a day, and neither of those are particularly good. Obviously, working not enough is not good, but working too much is not good either.  02:25 - Anne (Host) So, yeah, the struggle is real. I'm in that category, yeah.  02:28 - Tom (Co-host) Where I tend to work those 14 hours?  02:31 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I try not to, but it's very difficult. And there are some people who just it's not conducive to just joy, bringing joy to them, because they find it so hard to either turn off or to focus or to concentrate to get things done or they need that social aspect of being out in an office. I know that my husband was working from home for a good couple of years. He is now again working from home and he's much more attuned to it. He's much more adjusted to it. The first couple of years he was working full time from home he hated it and I know that for me, working full time from home was a big adjustment. I mean, it took me a good year or two to get used to it. I think I was really like okay, so when should I like market? Okay, I've got auditions to do. I know I can do that. Now what do I do?  03:23 I was also still trying to grow my business, and so I think in the beginning I wasn't as happy because I didn't have any direction, I didn't have any guidance, I didn't know what I was supposed to be doing and I thought maybe there is a formula right. Is there a formula for success in working from home?  03:40 - Tom (Co-host) There is. The problem with it is that everybody has to build their own formula. Everybody has to create their own systems and their own structures. I talked to my students about systems of thought how to think about what you're supposed to think about and systems of execution what's the practical application of your systems of thought? And there's so many different parts to it. I basically break it down into time management and workflow how to manage your time and then how to develop systems to do all the things that you need to do. Time management is very, very tough, especially if you're going from a job job a nine to five job where all the time management is taken care of for you for the most part because this is your hours, and you have to do this within this amount of time, and either you get it done or you don't, and if you don't consistently enough, you will no longer have that job.  04:32 That's it.  04:33 - Anne (Host) You know what I mean Exactly.  04:35 - Tom (Co-host) So, understanding how to prioritize and understanding how to focus, those are the two big things. What is more important than other things and how much time should you spend on it? And how to be able to maintain mental, physical, logistical focus on any given subject marketing, billing, audition, booking, balancing your checkbooks, invoicing you know all of that stuff.  04:58 - Anne (Host) Well, let's break it down in terms of your business, Tom. What is your first priority on any given day?  05:03 - Tom (Co-host) Health.  05:04 - Anne (Host) My health. I like that.  05:06 - Tom (Co-host) Understanding that if I am not physically, mentally, spiritually, psychologically, emotionally in good shape, I will not be able to engage in effective time management, and the rest won't matter.  05:17 - Anne (Host) That's actually really an excellent point. Thank you.  05:21 - Tom (Co-host) The third part of it is what are the things that I need to do 24 hours a day to maintain optimal health? Obviously, some days are better than others, some weeks, some months, some years are better than others.  05:31 - Anne (Host) Sure, I got you there, yeah.  05:34 - Tom (Co-host) It starts with and this is a big one, for a lot of people is waking up in the morning. When do you wake up in the morning? Some people are night owl, some people are early risers, and all of that is fine, as long as it's like oh, I'm not an early riser, I'm an night owl. You get out of bed and start working on stuff at like two in the afternoon and then you're done at four.  05:58 - Anne (Host) You know what I mean, unless you had the six hour work week.  06:00 - Tom (Co-host) Yeah, Getting up exercising if that's what you need to do, having a good breakfast for a lot of people, showering, cleaning yourself up getting dressed getting dressed on some level. Making the bed and making the bed, making the bed's big for a lot of people. Our friend Corey Snow, voice actor. He puts on a tie Because it mentally prepares him for his day.  06:20 - Anne (Host) Yeah, absolutely, well getting dressed up and putting makeup on helps me to just, you know, okay, I'm prepared now and I'm ready to go and exercise, of course, now, but that was not the case. As you said, some years are different, right? I mean that was not my priority during the pandemic, which it should have been but it wasn't. But things evolve and change. But now I find that I need to get up and do that Because and sometimes it's exercise after the day is done, because that helps to really relieve stress.  06:47 - Tom (Co-host) Helps you decompress? Yeah.  06:49 - Anne (Host) So it really kind of fluctuates a little bit for me. But yeah, I love that health being number one for you. And what would be your second priority, would you say after that?  06:58 - Tom (Co-host) The structure because, like I said, without the good health you can't operate within a structure. Structuring your time, getting up at roughly the same time every day is extremely important, and then setting up a system like, for example, roughly between 7.30 and 8 am every morning for me is auditions.  07:17 I get as many auditions, as done as I can between 7.30 and 8. That's between the pay-to-play sites, my agents and manager auditions myself, marketing, regular clients auditions. I do as many as I can, so sometimes I sit down, do that and then shower and get dressed and have breakfast.  07:31 - Anne (Host) Sometimes I do it in the inverse, depending on timing of the auditions are all so based on timing. Now I have agents that like to send it around 6, 5 and 6 o'clock and I try to get them done that night if I can, if I'm not too exhausted. Just because if I wait until the morning, I will have a morning voice, which is kind of cool in certain instances.  07:50 But I might need to do some warm-ups to get rid of that voice. But for me right now it's funny because years ago I would never have said this. But right now I am preferring my morning voice. And so I will prioritize my auditions to do the ones that I feel will call for a lower voice first.  08:08 - Intro (Announcement) I do that too Before.  08:08 - Anne (Host) I go ahead and do a series of a bunch of them.  08:12 So, that's very interesting. So, yeah, auditions I think the things that you cannot always depend on being at a consistent time, because auditions for me come in at different times all the time. But I like how you have a period in the morning where you can do those auditions that are not necessarily like I feel like all of my auditions that from my agents I feel are more timely, where I feel like I might have to respond to them within a certain amount of time, and maybe I can't wait an evening or a morning, but certain other ones I can wait, and so I put it in two categories. So I have a specific time, like I like, in the morning, to do auditions, but I also, if anybody needs them right away, I will have to respond right away.  08:51 - Tom (Co-host) Oh, of course, and I tend to batch them. So when I sit down at my desk in the morning at 7.30, I see what I've got, I prioritize and I do the warming up the voice based on what it is.  09:01 But then I'll probably do another batch, like right after lunch, unless there's one, and then maybe I'll do one or two at the end of the day around four-ish but usually by then my voice is kind of like it's not great because I auditioning all day, I've been booking all day, I've been working with students all day, so around four o'clock I'm kind of like on my way out vocally.  09:22 - Anne (Host) That's typically me too, because I've been yapping all day either coaching or doing auditions, and then, yeah, I have to be very careful. Sometimes I choose not to respond to auditions until the following morning when I have more energy because my performance is going to be better.  09:36 - Tom (Co-host) Right and my next priority to actually get around to answering your question. I like to manage my finances.  09:42 - Anne (Host) Next Okay.  09:43 - Tom (Co-host) I like to balance my checkbook, pay my credit card bills, generate any invoices that I need to, reconcile any invoices that I need to. I like to do that first, Like I do my auditions. Then I like to do my finances because, well one, it's the easy to check off boxes, but also I don't want to have those tasks lingering in my head while I'm doing my other things, like my marketing or auditioning or booking or working with students.  10:11 I just like to be like okay, all of my financial stuff for the day is done, it's out of the way it's over here because I know it has a very strict beginning, middle and end balance checkbook, pay credit cards, generate invoices, send invoices, reconcile invoices.  10:26 Sometimes it takes five minutes, sometimes it takes a half an hour, sometimes it takes an hour. But I like having all that done because I want to allocate the creative energy when it's time to get creative or work with students or do the booking. So I like to kind of get that non-creative stuff like done out of the way. You know what I mean.  10:45 - Anne (Host) Now for me I hire an accountant, so my accountant takes care of managing the balancing, which for me is just makes me very happy. She's been working with me for about 10 years so she knows pretty much the categories. But we do meet when we need to and we also have a once a month kind of standing meeting where we make sure everything is synced up and she understands, like if there's any bills that are outstanding and I'll have to check on them and that sort of thing. So my accounting part, for me it takes a little less time, just because that's not one of the things that brings me joy. It brings me joy. I know it does. I know it does I?  11:21 love to do it and I totally get that and it brings my account and joy too, because she loves doing stuff like that. But yeah, and this is a daily thing for you. Do you have to do it every day or no, not every day.  11:32 - Tom (Co-host) I'd say solidly twice a week, once earlier in the week or once later in the week. I mean, I used to say that a project isn't done until the invoice is sent and I used to be very disciplined about sending the invoice as soon as I send the audio files.  11:45 - Intro (Announcement) I don't do that as much.  11:47 - Tom (Co-host) It depends on the gig, obviously. If it's a long form gig or a long term gig, you know if it's an audio book or something like that. But if it's like a quicky explainer video that may require a retake or two that I'm not gonna charge for, I'll just whip it up and send it off. You know what I mean. But sometimes I batch them. Sometimes I'll wait a couple of days and do all the credit cards Because if I'm reconciling invoices, I'm updating my checkbook. You know they're all related to each other. You know what I mean the bills, the checkbook and the invoices. I'd say twice a week I'm probably doing that financial stuff.  12:18 - Anne (Host) Sure, well, the nice thing for me is that I live by my calendar. I live, live, live by my calendar, especially with students and coaching. So I have days that I coach and hours that I coach, and different coaching happens at different times, and so I know when I can set aside time to. You know, I have to go to the doctor or I have to do things like get my hair done or do my nails, and they are in certain days where I'm not working with students. And thankfully I work a lot of non-broadcast stuff so that I have some time, so that if I am in the middle of getting my hair done I don't have to audition or respond right away. I have a few hours.  12:53 I'm always able to like finagle the schedule of when do they need a job done by around my other schedule. But understanding my calendar and having it that consistent is important for me. To have a schedule like what I can make consistent, I think is beneficial If you can make something consistent to make it consistent, because then it starts to emulate, kind of like okay, I can expect to be coaching during this time or I can expect to be doing auditions. For the most part during this time I can expect to be marketing at this time and that makes it easier, I think, to manage the time and focus as well.  13:27 - Tom (Co-host) I agree, I am a huge Google Calendar person, are you? I call her Google.  13:30 - Anne (Host) Calendar Google Calendar.  13:31 - Tom (Co-host) You're a Google Calendar.  13:32 - Anne (Host) Google.  13:33 - Tom (Co-host) Calendar is the best. You want to talk about a great time management skill Like. Here's just a little secret bosses, mm-hmm. Right here. This is my monthly action plan. Everything I know that I'm going to do in November priority tasks broken down into Catch for Tool, technique, marketing and Health. Taught to me by Dan Duckworth of Voiceovers Unlimited, who has since retired one of my teachers.  13:52 - Anne (Host) Dan Duckworth. I remember Dan Duckworth, absolutely Wonderful human being.  13:57 - Tom (Co-host) He taught me so much. So one thing that I do is I take all of these checklist items, I put them on my google calendar. Now, that doesn't mean I have to do that that minute, but the nice thing is that I can kind of slide it around.  14:09 Oh yeah so, like this is a new thing I've been doing lately is like I'll take all of these and I'll schedule them after like 4 pm, so to be like Monday I'll be like, okay, I did my auditions, I did my finances, did whatever. It's like okay, so what do I have Dan here? Okay, I've got these things. So I'll just start oh, I'm like, oh, I'll do this one, I'll drag it up to nine, to nine, thirty, and I'll do it, and it's like done. And then I'll be like, oh, what else can I do? Oh, nine thirty to ten, oh, I'll drag this one up, I'll do it and it's done. I use that to kind of slide everything all over the place.  14:40 Now there's certain things I know like. If my blog comes out on a certain day, I want to promote the blog on social media that stuff does not move.  14:47 It'll definitely get 100% done that day, but I know between nine and noon I'll probably do it, but with the other things that are less time sensitive, it needs to be done at some point during the month. I'll front load my google calendar with all of this stuff and then I'll just start sliding everything around because you never know what your day is going to be like. You never know what auditions are going to come in, or bookings are going to come in, or the cat's going to explode the washing machine is going to break down Absolutely.  15:13 - Anne (Host) And that's what's so different about being your own business, running your own business and being an entrepreneur is that you don't always have like a predictable day, and a lot of times you don't know when is that job coming in and now, how long will it take you to do that job? And then how are you going to rearrange that around the other stuff that you have scheduled. So there's a lot of, I would say, time management. That is, tom, as you mentioned, so very important to do when you are working from home and working for yourself.  15:42 - Tom (Co-host) Yeah, yeah, the other big one is understanding workflow. I break it down into physical workflow, digital workflow and mental workflow.  15:50 A lot of what we just talked about is a lot of the mental workflow. The aforementioned Dan Duckworth taught me. The five categories of my voiceover business are exactly what you saw in the action plan Cash flow tools, technique marketing and health. So when it comes to managing your workflow about all the physical things you need to do through your day, right over here Are five binders and they're labeled cash flow tools, technique marketing All the physical stuff that I need for all of those invoices in cash flow, warranties and manuals and stuff is in tools. All of my acting lessons and stuff the vocal exercises and techniques, so on and so forth Are in those binders. So that helps my physical workflow. Also, having everything in the same physical place On your desk consistently Develops your muscle memory, so my calculator is always right here. Yes, I use a calculator. It's an old school calculator, but it's just like the Like.  16:42 I'm really fast at it and I know my right hand. It's always like right there when I'm bouncing the checkbook or adding stuff up, sure, and making sure that my pen jar is over there and my audio interface is over here. My phone always hangs out over here, my mouse always hangs out over here. Develop muscle memory. Your body likes to do things over and over again. It likes the repetition. So Can you see a? Logically, I don't think that's a word, but like, a big part of your time management and workflow is training your body to know that the same things are in the same place. So every time you're going to do a thing, you reach over here and it's there, sure.  17:15 - Anne (Host) And I'm going to kind of tack on to that, though, is understanding how you can become more efficient in your workflow, and for me, I just discovered dictation I knew dictation existed on the Mac, but I'm having like with auto correct these days.  17:29 Sometimes it completely rearranges my word and it gets very frustrating sometimes when I'm typing and so I'll just hit the function key twice and I'll just start dictating and it's surprisingly accurate and it really really helps me to be quite a bit more efficient and I know we've talked about this before on a podcast, but something simple like chat Gbt can help me to write emails to my clients. It is one of the biggest helpers that I have. Like, I think trying to write a professional email to a client sometimes takes me some time to think of the right words, whereas I can use a chat GPT to help me reframe some bullet points and frame it a little more professionally and, using those tools as they exist to help me become more efficient, it really really helps my time.  18:15 - Tom (Co-host) AI has a lot of benefits when it comes to being sort of a virtual assistant for you. I'm a hyper right fan myself. I actually don't use chat GPT. I discovered hyper right and it's good for all the stuff that you just mentioned. It's also a good like blog assistant. It helps you clean up blogs. So, like I'll record my video strategist blog, I'll record it, videotape it and then I'll use Google's hyper right. Hyper right, yeah, and then I'll use Google's. See, I'm going to write that down now. Hyper right, hyper right.  18:44 - Anne (Host) I use copy AI. Oh, there you go, yeah.  18:46 - Tom (Co-host) So I record my blog and then I use Google's speech to text to transcribe everything that I said, and then I copy and paste that into hyper right to help clean up all the verbiage. And then, once it all gets cleaned up, then I ask it to help me come up with a good title. That's nice, and then I can use it to come up with that short description which we embed inside the blog itself For searchability reasons.  19:08 - Anne (Host) So, yeah, yeah, for SEO, and I use a program for this podcast called Podium, that you can upload the MP3 and it will give you the show notes, it will give you takeaways, it will give you, you can even generate a blog on that.  19:22 - Tom (Co-host) I'm writing that one down.  19:23 - Anne (Host) Yeah, podium is good. It's a paid subscription, but I'll tell you what it works really well. I'm very pleased with it. You can also create video clips if you want, but Riverside, as most of you know that I use to record this video and the separate audio tracks also has a really great built in AI functionality to generate short clips, and so that has really impacted my workflow in a positive manner. Now there's always the and tweak, the and touch Sure, which I find that I still have to put in on the AI generated stuff. But as we speak, the tools are getting better and I'm not a hypocrite thinking oh my God, ai is out to ruin us and ruin our industry. I'm using AI to make my business more efficient and, including Tommy, you and I have talked about this including exploring having our own voices and being able to use those for our clients who may want to use those and make them available so that we can have a passive income stream.  20:19 - Tom (Co-host) We love passive income streams.  20:21 - Anne (Host) That, we do, that, we do, yes, we do.  20:24 - Tom (Co-host) There's another thing I want to talk about regarding workflow, which is digital workflow. Not just what we talked about, but I use Dan Duckworth's five categories of your voiceover business with my email. So I have Outlook and Gmail and they're synced, and I organize all of my emails into cashflow tools, technique, marketing and health.  20:41 - Intro (Announcement) So when I'm done with an email, it goes into one of those five folders with various subfolders.  20:46 - Tom (Co-host) And just looking at my browser right here I'm on Google Chrome.  20:49 - Anne (Host) So do you delete email? That's my question. Do you delete any email?  20:52 - Tom (Co-host) Oh, I delete emails all the time but I also keep an eye on the ones that when I'm like done with it, but I want to keep it, you know it goes into the folder which those five categories Plus. I have a category for the bio strategist, I have a category for clients and all that stuff. Also, I've got my Chrome browser right here and I've got on the top of the bar bookmarks, bookmarks. And guess what they're labeled? Dan Cashflow, tools, technique, marketing, health.  21:14 - Anne (Host) I love it. That makes sense.  21:15 - Tom (Co-host) So all of my social media sites are in marketing All the. Ai stuff is under tools. All of my like pronunciation guide websites are under technique, so on and so forth, and I've got one for my comic book, I've got one for video strategist, I've got one for, like, my hobbies and personal stuff. So I know that, like any time, I'm thinking about any part of my business physical cashflow binder, email cashflow folder browser cashflow bookmark folder, exactly bookmark.  21:41 - Anne (Host) Yep, talk about that muscle memory Email absolutely.  21:44 - Tom (Co-host) It's like creating sort of a digital muscle memory for me, so I don't have to reinvent the wheel.  21:49 - Anne (Host) Yes, and automated for your email as well. I have lots of rules and filters. So if it comes into a particular email address that goes into a particular folder. So, there's lots of ways that you can become more productive with your digital tools Absolutely. Now let's talk about focus, because focus, I think, is a huge stopper of productivity, especially social media.  22:13 - Tom (Co-host) Yes, well, first, everybody just grow up. You know what I mean. Put your big pants on your big pants, people, and you're doing grown-up stuff. Nobody's watching you, so you know. So that's my short, obnoxious answer.  22:25 There's obviously an element of truth in that, but a little more realistically, I know that I have certain things that I need to do and I have a certain amount of time to do them, and cool like the auditions obviously are deadline-driven. You know what I mean. You need to balance your checkbooks, you need to do your gigs and all of that stuff and everything else is kind of like up in the air. So I use Stephen Covey's four quadrants Quadrant one, focusing on that which is important and urgent. Quadrant two, that which is important but not urgent. Quadrant three, that which is urgent but not important. And then my favorite quadrant four, doing things that are neither urgent nor important. I don't think about it anymore. It just kind of happens now because I've developed this mental muscle memory.  23:09 - Anne (Host) Did you used to have to write that? I used to. Okay, okay, gotcha.  23:13 - Tom (Co-host) I used to have to do that. But understanding that what's the most important one, which is quadrant two, that which is important but not urgent, which is all of the long-term investment stuff in relationships in general, and part of that involves marketing. Marketing is always a long-term, non-urgent thing that you need to do and that's a thing that people spend way too much time on in the wrong way wrong, whatever that means, because that's a very individual thing. But understanding that playing around with my accounting software or endlessly organizing my contacts on my CRM are not urgent, they're not important, but I do them, or I used to do them, because it would make me feel productive and feel professional and that's just an abject waste of your time.  24:02 So understanding what's a waste of your time and what isn't a waste of your time, what needs to be done now, what needs to be done later and what never needs to be done at all.  24:10 - Anne (Host) Absolutely. I'm going to say one of the biggest time sucks is social media.  24:15 And I literally will just not open up any Facebook window or any Instagram. My phone is not. I'm not looking at my phone. For that reason, I only have windows open in my browser that I need to have open and I have a dedicated time for social media.  24:32 It don't always stick to it, but I have to be fairly rigid with my social media because I just have too many things in the day to do and I know that before, when it wasn't just such chaos, it used to be a thing that I could oh, let me check my email now. Or let me check my Facebook posts here, or let me check my Instagram here. It used to be something that I could just free form. But I can no longer do that with my schedule and remain effective and remain efficient in my business. So it may seem like I'm not as interactive as I used to be in social media, but I weigh the pros and the cons of that right, like how much is being on social media, engaging in social media? That is a thing that I must do. That is a specific time. Just browsing social media that's something I do after work, in my free time, and typically that happens now while the television is on and I find that I'm looking at my phone more than the television.  25:30 - Tom (Co-host) Yeah, I find myself doing that too. Sometimes I find myself with the television and my phones here, and then I've got my tablet over here on a little tripod stand and. I'm playing a game. It's like, oh geez, I've got three screens in front of me and I'm not paying proper attention to any of them.  25:44 - Anne (Host) To any of them. Yeah, exactly, and then I just fall asleep, because then I'm usually just exhausted.  25:50 - Tom (Co-host) Yeah there are apps where you can limit your social media use. So if you are early in your voiceover journey, you're home for the first time and you just find yourself doom scrolling on Instagram and stuff. You can set it up. So either it'll set a time limit or it won't let you look at it at all at certain times of day and that may be something you need to do. It's sort of the put the padlock on the refrigerator if you're on a diet kind of thing, Like sometimes you need to do that sort of stuff, Set yourself up so you can't do it.  26:21 Yeah yeah, absolutely.  26:23 - Anne (Host) So what is the biggest complaint from your students that say working from home sucks? I mean, has anybody actually come to you and said working home sucks? I guess I just need, I don't know how to manage my time. Or is that a common thing, or is it just? Oh, it's so common, so common.  26:39 - Tom (Co-host) I say it's funny because I have all of these videos that I sell and I have all these speaking engagements, conferences and courses and whatever, and anytime I say the two we're time management someone invariably goes oh my God, I suck at that. I need so much help with that. Please, please, please, help me with that. That is a epidemic in the voiceover community because, most of the time, because they came from a rigid nine to five structured environment. So, yeah, time management is something that people are often sorely lacking. Coming in and I think we just covered a huge amount of tips and tricks and strategies but also understanding mentally the what and the why about it, not just the how. I mean Google Calendar and blocking your social media apps are one thing, but that's only good. As the. I'll put it to you this way Ann Greg Iles, great author. He wrote maturity equals impulse control.  27:33 - Anne (Host) Interesting.  27:35 - Tom (Co-host) So what it really comes down to is how much impulse control you have, and if you lack an impulse control, that means you are, by definition, immature. So if you want to be an effective voice actor, you need to be a mature voice actor, and to be a mature voice actor is to have effective time management and workflow skills.  27:53 - Anne (Host) Well, I have been schooled, dear, I have been schooled. I love that. I love that. You know, tommy, you bring this kind of old school mentality, but I think it's something that we need to really be effective and grow our businesses. Because how many times you're right, I have no control, I'm on social media, I'm not focused, I'm not getting any work. Why? Why? I think really getting yourself disciplined in some fashion, at least during your work day, as you would if you were sitting at a company, is imperative, I think, to really running a successful business at home and making your work at home life suck less. Ha ha, ha ha.  28:30 - Tom (Co-host) Way to bring it home. There you go there you go, good job.  28:34 - Anne (Host) Wonderful conversation. I'll tell you what bosses do you have? A local nonprofit that is close to your heart? If you do, you can visit 100voiceshootcareorg to learn how. And IPDTL. They are our sponsor we love. Ipdtl helps us connect and network like bosses and become efficient work from home, sucking less employees of our own businesses. So find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and amazing productive, efficient, wonderful work from Home Week and we will see you next week. Bye.  29:09 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, ann Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission and Coast to Coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Intimidated by the daunting world of finances, specifically in the voiceover industry? Tag along with the BOSSES as we demystify the intricacies of money management. Our banter-filled conversation is set to shine a light on the critical role of financial discipline, understanding taxes, and the art of investment categorization for your business growth. We provide crucial insights on all things expenses - from domain names and web hosting to the nitty-gritty of audio editing software. We also tackle home studio costs and the relevance of physical inventory for product sellers. And for those lean times, we've got you covered with our practical strategies that ensure you stay on top of your game. 00:01 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VEO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:20 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VEO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower series. I'm here with my superpower boss co-host, Lau Lapides. Hey hey. 00:30 Lau. How are you? Hey, I'm fab. How are you? I need to activate my accounting financial superpowers because it is a new year and I've got a business that I want to grow and I need to make some investments and I need to really, I think, get my finances in order. So I think we should talk. I know people hate talking or even thinking about finances. However, I think we need to discuss what could be on the agenda for your business this year and how can you financially prepare.  01:09 - Lau (Co-host) I love that, and if we don't understand our status with our money and we don't have a good relationship with it and we don't have trust with money and we don't know how to treat it, then we will not have financial discipline and therefore not have the cash for the investments we need to make throughout our year. And I speak about that at every level. I mean, if you're making millions, even more so because I know colleagues of mine that are millionaires that are busted by the end of the year because they don't know how to save, they don't know how to spend, they don't know how to invest.  01:43 They're used to being managed by other people, and I think management is wonderful when you're at a certain level, but it can also be a curse and take a lot of that micro management over you and then you're left with like, wow, how do I live life? How do I earn money? What do I do with it?  02:01 - Anne (Host) Absolutely.  02:02 I've always tried to be so independent, just in my life and financially independent as well, and so it really behooves us as business entrepreneurs to understand even if we do let's say, I always talk about my accountant and the best thing I ever did was outsource my accounting but you also need to have an underlying understanding and concept of financials so that you can direct your accountant or also understand where's your money going, because maybe sometimes your accountant I don't know maybe they're taking it or maybe they're putting it in place is that you're not familiar with. So not that I want to infer that there's anything shady going on, but hey, we want to be educated.  02:43 - Lau (Co-host) Yes, I also want people to think let's talk taxes, baby. Oh yes, I am not an accountant, my husband is.  02:50 I do not get into that, but I will say running businesses, as you know, Annie, everything at the end of the day, whether it's quarterly, whether it's annual, you have to put you know one of the first things we say and we're fairly conservative fiscally my husband and I we joke. We say, oh, we just got a ton of money and that's awesome, what are we going to do with it? Put it away. I'm going to say I'm going to put 50% of that away from taxes for the next quarter and I'll say good move.  03:16 - Anne (Host) And I'm so glad that you brought that up. As a matter of fact, for the next three months I have a certain amount of money that is coming out because it might escort. I need to pay myself, and so I need to pay myself. I need to prep. So by the end of the year I'm not going to be paying tons and tons of money and taxes.  03:32 - Lau (Co-host) And has that ever happened to you? Because that happened to us a couple of times. It's devastating.  03:37 - Anne (Host) Gosh, when I first started off in voiceover and I started making money and I wasn't prepared, right At the end of the year I was just like, yeah, I'll do the taxes at the end of the year, put it off, put it off, put it off. And then, ultimately, at the end of the year I was like, oh, my God, I owe. And then it was like, oh, I don't just owe a little, I owed a lot. And then I was audited one year. I'll be very frank in telling you that?  03:58 Not because I mean, I wasn't doing any funny business, but literally sometimes you're a small business, right, and a lot of times if you are making claims, they want to substantiate those claims and make sure that you're doing your taxes properly.  04:12 So it was a random audit. Actually, I was audited twice. I passed both audits with flying colors. As a matter of fact, the last audit they owed me. So it really goes to show that I was prepared, and thank God I was prepared.  04:24 Again, like I said, I don't wait until the very last minute and I don't know if I was intending for this episode to be talking about taxes the whole time, but it all comes down to the end of the year, right when you got to pay your taxes. And so you have to understand, like, where is your money going, where is your investments going, what costs do you have? And I think that's super important, what are your costs and what is your income coming in? And you should be looking at your profit, your PNL statement. What is a PNL statement? I have people like I'm not even sure what a PNL. It's a profit and loss statement. So that is something that you should be familiar with, and if you're not, we're here to kind of talk to you about the basics at least. I'm not a financial advisor. However, I can share my experiences and I can tell you how important it is to be educated and to understand that there will be investments and you need to categorize those investments and you need to categorize your profits.  05:19 - Lau (Co-host) Yes, and at the end of the day, even though we don't want to talk about taxes the entire time, we're not on a barter system. If IRS comes, they're not going to take a cow right. They want money, they want cash. So, just being honest, having integrity about your business, just doing everything by the book, being very careful, having a bookkeeper, having an accounting team having the people you need on your side couldn't be more worth.  05:43 It just couldn't be. But let's talk about money in terms of, like, fixed costs. Putting together your understanding what are my fixed costs versus my movable, shakeable, flexible, variable costs, which do vary month to month? How do you set it up, Annie? When you set that up?  06:01 - Anne (Host) Well, I don't remember which episode it was, but I did touch upon this at one point. In terms of fixed costs, like for running your business, there is the cost of I'm an S corp, so I have to pay a certain amount of money every year right to maintain that license, and so I also have to make sure that things that it costs for me to run my business so not only the cost of the business itself, which I pay to the state or I pay to the federal government I also am paying things that would be like my website, my web hosting right. That is something I pay on a monthly basis. That happens each and every time. So those recurring costs I found to be well managed, number one by my accountant and it's categorized in my system.  06:46 But also I downloaded an app. I pay for this app on a monthly basis called Rocket Money, and Rocket Money will go out and grab all your subscriptions, cause a lot of times you can be subscribed to things that you forget about. This is the new way of doing businesses those subscription models which I pay monthly for my domain names, for my web hosting, which is the place where I host my websites, kind of think what else, my subscriptions to my audio editing software, twisted Wave or Adobe Audition. I also pay Adobe because I have Adobe Acrobat, the Adobe Suite that I pay for. Goodness gracious, this is so much, and I pay for a lot of things too, like my Riverside subscription. Right, this is what we record our podcast on. I pay for my Zoom connection. I pay for gosh, all these backblades, which is my backup system Right.  07:40 - Lau (Co-host) So here's the key, though, annie, is like we're lumping them all together because that's everything that you do every month and in your mind because you've been doing so long. Those are fixed costs, right To a new person coming in for the first couple of years. Some of those may be more variable in cost because, let's say, let's say hypothetically, you're ready to do a blasting service like Constant Contact or MailChimp or VO Boss or VO Boss, but we're blasting things out to your hundreds or thousands of leads, right, and you're gonna pay for that monthly. Now, we consider that kind of fixed because we've been doing that collectively so long. But someone coming in who's fairly new and say, well, can I spend that $40, $50 a month or $90 a month to do that? That's more of a variable cost, because they may or may not feel like I'm at a point where that's gonna be beneficial. I may not have enough leads to do that too. I'll do that in a year and see where I am in a year, but I can't do that with my rent or my mortgage.  08:39 - Intro (Announcement) I have to do that every month.  08:41 - Lau (Co-host) That's a fixed cost right. So that's really interesting for us to just reevaluate every year or every quarter, like what are our variables that we're thinking of as fixed, Like if I think of Google or I think of like storage on?  08:57 - Anne (Host) Zoom, or I think of this. My mind it's fixed. My iPhone, my phone bill for myself, I'm paying on a monthly basis that to me. I consider that a fixed cost. But you're right, I mean, it all comes down to what is it that is necessary to run your business? But, interestingly enough, because most of us are home-based businesses, now, brick and mortar, brick and mortar. Are you paying Brick and mortar as well as I mean, we gotta consider our offices, our home studios, right? Yes, as part of it. So for me it translates into I've gotta pay the mortgage because if I don't have a house or I don't have my home studio, I don't have my studio in my house.  09:33 - Intro (Announcement) You gotta pay.  09:33 - Anne (Host) Your insurance, gotta pay the water bill, gotta pay the internet, oh my gosh internet.  09:37 - Intro (Announcement) Utilities yes, Gotta pay electricity.  09:39 - Anne (Host) Otherwise I'm not gonna have all of that to be able to run my business at home. And you law have a brick and mortar as well, so there's all of that which is considered fixed for you as well.  09:50 - Lau (Co-host) Yes, it is, and that's not to say it can't shift and change. So if I decide to move to a different place, then the costs would shift and change, but they're always there. In other words, they don't really leave, unless the caveat is I'm 22, I'm trying to save money. I move in with my parents. They're gonna pay a lot of those bills for me for a year. I don't have to worry about that. They're gonna let me save money. Okay, that's your caveat. But other than that, when you're in the world, those are now part of our business, because if we don't take care of those, we literally can't run the business.  10:22 - Anne (Host) And, believe it or not, on a very small scale. Right, I have physical inventory because I sell a vocal throat care line and a vocal spray along with my vocal essentials, right? So there's inventory. I need to purchase inventory so that I can create those sprays, also to run that business.  10:41 - Lau (Co-host) And we would have merchandise Exactly that we may wanna take to a conference or we may wanna do a swag bag giveaway at a networking meeting or whatever. That's the inventory you speak of. That is really variable, it's not really fixed, it's still a variable cost. But for us it's important that we continue to do that to promote the business.  10:59 - Anne (Host) Absolutely absolutely.  11:00 - Lau (Co-host) Right, I love this conversation. This is so good. So what happens? I get in trouble. I find that I'm not doing as much voiceover work this month as I see happen Quite often times. People come in, they start crying, they're upset, they're like I might have to get another job. I might have to pull back on my spending. Where do we go first to pull back on that spending? We go to the variables.  11:24 - Anne (Host) Yep, great question. Yeah, absolutely, the variables. I mean, what can I do to save money, number one, or cut down on costs? And again, as your business evolves and as things evolve, everything, that's really important that we take a look at that, gosh, at least I mean I look at that every month, if not more than that. And I know that, especially when things are lean right, you've got more time right. If you've got more time, you've got more time to. Let's take a look at our marketing. Let's take a look at our investments. What are we spending right and what can we cut back on?  11:59 And I know, for me, some of mine was subscriptions that were no longer serving me, right, I was like, okay, well, I guess I don't need that. And then I've got things like I have a Peloton subscription. Am I using it? Because that's a certain amount of money? Am I watching the Discovery channel? Can I cut back on that? Those subscriptions? And in reality, by the way, my cable, and well, I guess, do you call it cable, my streaming, my streaming subscriptions are part of my business because I am researching the market, right, and I'm listening to commercials, I'm seeing what's out there, I'm educating myself on trending sound, trending voices, educating myself as a coach for my students right. So that is considered a business expense.  12:45 - Lau (Co-host) I would add a personalized list to this. So you have your fixed cost, you have your variable, but then you have your very personal expenses. That could be one or the other but if I'm hurting for money and I gotta go skinny one month, I'm gonna go to that personalized list.  13:01 So a very simple example of that is I'll always ask a client. I'll say listen, what are you doing this weekend? What did you do last weekend? Oh, I went to the movies cool. What did you spend on that? Oh, that was 15 bucks great. Did you get any food or drink there? I did. I think that was about 30 bucks great. Did you go out to dinner Super. I think I spent 25 bucks on fast food great. Did you spend on gasoline? Yeah, I think I spent five or six bucks. Add that up. That is the money that can go into your investment piece when you really need the coaching session.  13:32 - Anne (Host) You really need that event. You really need that. Can I skip the Starbucks? I remember that's the biggest thing. Can I skip the Starbucks? I'm gonna skip the Starbucks.  13:38 - Lau (Co-host) And I have to say, annie, I'm not a financial advisor, so I'm not advising you financially. I'm advising you from a logical perspective of saying be careful of saying to yourself, lying to yourself and saying I don't have the money, when really you should be saying let me find the money or create the money Absolutely.  13:59 We used to go under the cushions to find the change and put it in a big jar. Now we can go to what we're spending, what we're actually spending, and find the change in that jar. A Starbucks which we love five, six bucks. A cup of that that I may need to put into my coaching session.  14:17 - Anne (Host) Absolutely Hands down. One of the smartest things I ever did was create that business savings account. And then where are you going to put that business savings account? I literally just moved my business savings account from my bank to a higher yield interest bank and I'll tell you what it made the difference between oh gosh, I might have made gosh my bank was paying me nothing. I was like 0.001. And I think I was making like maybe $5 a year.  14:42 Well, guess what? I'm 5% APY 5%. And when you invest that now, I've made thousands of dollars for this year and then that can be reinvested in my business. So that savings account also is what saved me from when things get lean, when the jobs aren't coming in, when things slow down and then all of a sudden, oh my goodness, what am I gonna do. And it saves you from that panic where you probably do yourself more harm than good with that guttural like oh my God, I am gonna have to like get a job or I'm gonna have to quit.  15:17 Voiceover it's just not working. It's in that panic that I have a lot of people they come to me. I just I can't. I can't invest in a demo, I can't invest in coaching, because I'm just not making it back. And again, that is something that you really do need to understand that there are investments to be made. If you have the money put aside to make those investments right, that makes you feel a whole lot more comfortable and a lot less panicky, whether you're like oh, I said I gotta get out, I can't do this anymore, or you become discouraged, and then it really becomes a whole mental game. And that, I think, is the toughest part about voice acting right Voice acting the acting we can always practice.  15:55 We can hone our skills, we can become better at what we do. But that business sense that when the business is slow, when all of a sudden it's like, oh my God, this isn't working or how do I survive, you go into that like fight or flight kind of mode and really having that nest egg, having that savings account that can be earning interest, having that passive income, all that good stuff, that can be that little pocket of confidence that's what I say that little pile of financial confidence is huge in, I think, growing and pursuing your voice of our business successfully.  16:32 - Lau (Co-host) Yeah, and we all know those of us who have been in business for a number of years it's never what you make. It is never what you make. It is not about gross, it's about net. So it's about what you take home. That is, showing us how you are spending and investing your money, your gross income. And so having that level of sacrifice, of humility and of modesty to understand that just because I want something does not mean I need it or should have it. So if you're willing to sacrifice and give up something, you probably have more shot of building an actual business, because the business has the needs. You don't have the needs as much as the business has the needs.  17:14 And I wanted to say too what you're talking about, which is so important and we're doing that as well as diversification of your money. So not only if it's not making interest, if it's not building wealth for you, then you move it. But here's the thing there's a couple of really important reasons to move the money. Not only does if your bank goes bust. You don't have everything in one pot.  17:34 - Anne (Host) Exactly.  17:35 - Lau (Co-host) You're only insured, too, for a certain amount, right, but also you're literally setting up accounts for yourself that you hopefully will forget about. So you're not spending it, you're not touching it. It's growing, it's working for you, right? So that you don't have this. Don't think of it as like one clump, one lump of something. It's really different pieces that you're diversifying into the world. You may want to invest, you may want to go into the stocks, you may want to do that kind of thing, right? So the point is is like okay, I've got my business, it's great, it's moving in the direction I wanted to move in, but what am I sacrificing? What am I doing to make money and make it grow for me, and how am I treating it? Like? How do I think of money? I hear a lot of people, especially women, talk about money, talk about negotiation, talk about contracts in a really negative light, like in a very heavy way. They are either fearing it, they don't want to talk about money.  18:30 - Anne (Host) I think most of it is fear absolutely Based in fear, and most of it is fear right.  18:34 It's kind of like I don't want to go there, I don't want to talk about it, I want to kind of just go back to something we were talking about in terms of investing and kind of making sure that you have the money to invest in that next piece of equipment, or do I need that new microphone? Do I need? I'm going to give you an analogy and I'm going to be very frank. I have in my clothes closet. I have these little cubby holes for my shoes.  18:59 Now I bought them gosh a long time ago and I think I I don't know if I got them in IKEA, but they're great. They're little cubby holes and you can fit a pair of shoes in each cubby hole, and so I bought a series of them to put around. We have a walk-in closet to put on the floor and my husband has one of the boxes which holds 12, right, and I literally have probably eight. I have 70 cubby holes Okay, 70. Now I made a deal with myself that I would never buy more shoes than could fit in that cubby hole, and so if I wanted to purchase a new pair of shoes, I had to give up another pair of shoes or donate it or sell it on Poshmark or what.  19:34 - Lau (Co-host) Wait a second, annie, I just did some math. Are you saying you have 98 pairs? If you have 12 and you have eight of those right, or 90,? What is that? 96? All right, so I say 70. Should I call?  19:49 - Anne (Host) you a melda now.  19:50 - Lau (Co-host) Should I really name you a melda?  19:51 - Anne (Host) I'm going to say it's 70. I don't know how many boxes there are, so, whatever right, 70. I have 70 holes. I have 70 cubbies.  19:57 - Lau (Co-host) You just have to stay in that denial, stay at 70. Stay at 70.  20:01 - Anne (Host) Now I can't purchase a new pair of shoes until I decide that I'm going to let another pair of shoes go. And if I can't, I'm going to try to sell those shoes. But if I can't, I'm going to donate them right so that they go to someplace. I'm that kind of person where I have to love my shoes right, do you wear?  20:17 - Lau (Co-host) all those shoes? Be honest, do you wear all?  20:19 - Intro (Announcement) Not anymore.  20:19 - Anne (Host) I don't no but I used to right and so, literally, as I've aged a little bit, I mean the heels got to come down a little bit.  20:27 - Intro (Announcement) I can't quite fit in those.  20:28 - Anne (Host) Well, I can't walk in those higher ones anymore, but I still love to look at them. But that is like I feel like your business needs to operate in that way, right, you cannot make an investment more than you have. Like, you should not spend more than you have. I should not have more shoes than cubby holes, right? Because then it starts to look cluttered, it starts to look like a big mess, and so, therefore, I have put myself on a plan, right, where this helps me to. This helps me to manage my shoes, like I would say, manage your finances in the same way, right, you don't want to make investments with money you don't have, right, and you want to make sure that, if you have, how many microphones do you have? Like, you should not have more microphones than places to put those microphones right, okay, all right, I have a term for that.  21:14 - Lau (Co-host) This is from my husband, jeremy, who is actually a controller CFO type accountant his whole life.  21:19 He says listen, and I always hated this, it always made me cringe, it was cringe worthy, but he's so right. And that is don't live above your means. Absolutely Don't live above your means. And he's not only talking about financially, he's also talking about emotionally and spiritually as well. So I have taught myself. My father, who's an entrepreneur, taught me this too. He said buy something, get rid of something. Yes, oh my God, buy something, yes, yes, and not just kick it to the curve, but give it to the right place.  21:47 Give it to the right place, give it to the right place and boy, did that save my day learning how to do that and really learning to let go and learning to move around it. That's really good.  21:57 - Anne (Host) That's really good, for I mean being frugal and being wise financially and also like mentally, like I feel like you can't have too much clutter, because physical clutter turns to be clutter in your head. And I actually took a feng shui course many, many years ago. It was like a six month course. I mean, it was intense.  22:15 - Intro (Announcement) I love it, I love it, you should never put things under your bed.  22:19 - Anne (Host) Don't store things under your bed. Don't store things because it's kind of like clutter anywhere, really like clear out your corners.  22:26 - Lau (Co-host) Clutter anywhere physically means clutter in your head, right so when it comes to your money, you need to compartmentalize it Absolutely. How do you call that when you label it like we would give away key?  22:38 - Anne (Host) Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. What do you call that? We label it. We're Maria Condoing, right Condoing, but that's what it is.  22:44 - Lau (Co-host) It's like knowing what you want to do with each piece of your life financially. Yeah, it's very freeing. There's a very openness to it, there's a breath in there, you know. Yeah, absolutely I love that. I love clearing the financial space.  22:58 - Anne (Host) That's what I like.  22:59 - Intro (Announcement) Clear the financial space.  23:01 - Anne (Host) Especially in the beginning of the year. It's always a great time to do that, to really sit back, and it may be hard. Right To sit back and take a look at where is the money going. How much are you spending? Are you spending more than you're bringing in? But again, like no more shoes than you have cubby holds.  23:18 - Lau (Co-host) And also test yourself, like once you give it away, like let a month go by and test yourself, say what did I give away? Do I even remember what?  23:26 - Intro (Announcement) it was, and I never remember.  23:28 - Lau (Co-host) I never remember the clothes or whatever.  23:31 - Anne (Host) If I haven't thought about it or used it in a year, it's good to go right.  23:35 - Intro (Announcement) It's good to go right. As much as I love it, that's most things.  23:37 - Anne (Host) I'll kiss it and I'll give it away and I'll say this deserves to go to someone. I'll donate it. This deserves to go to someone who will love it as much as I did. Really.  23:46 - Lau (Co-host) And then you're very Native American about it. It reminds me like, take the shoes to the river and just write a note and let them float away. Absolutely you know To someone else's feet. But that's what we need to do, because it makes us open to what is coming, like if you're so cluttered in your financial portfolio you can't invite anything in and allow the money to flow to you like a river right?  24:10 - Intro (Announcement) Oh, I love that you don't want your river to stagnate.  24:12 - Anne (Host) You don't want to block your river Again. No more shoes than cubby holes. Don't block your river with twigs, Just say allow the river of money to flow, I mean we're out of all here. Let's just imagine that financial flow coming to you and manifesting that.  24:28 - Lau (Co-host) Hallelujah and manifesting that Amen. I feel like doing a song right now, but I mean it's like language. If you're scripting, be careful the language you use to describe your money and your financial status. Don't be cheap, don't be dumb, don't be unknowing.  24:46 - Anne (Host) You're not greedy. If you appreciate money and you invited it, you are not greedy. That's like an old one. People say, oh, you're greedy. Although rich people are greedy, they just want more. Honestly, people who are wealthy are some of the most philanthropic people that give.  25:00 - Intro (Announcement) And we've had that discussion before.  25:01 - Anne (Host) But I mean really being rich isn't rich right Money rich, financially rich and spiritually rich.  25:09 - Lau (Co-host) It's all about you allowing the flow and not blocking it right with clutter and paying attention to details, Don't ignore it and don't act like you don't know how to deal with it. It's like treat it as if it's a person and you have a relationship with it. Would you say some of the things you say about money, about the person like, oh, I don't know how to deal with that, I just ignore it and I just let someone else deal with it? I don't think that relationship would go very far. You know what I mean. It's like treat it like a person, in the sense that there's a lot of potential movement and liberation that can come with that and what it represents. It's just symbolic of the kind of life and lifestyle and mindset that you want to have.  25:52 - Anne (Host) Absolutely.  25:53 - Lau (Co-host) And I always say too, you know, someone says to me Law, why do you want to make a lot of money? I've had the executive coaches ask me that and I said the first thing that comes to my mind is because I want to have more money to pay my team members. Yeah, oh, I love that. Yeah, I think in terms of investment, I always think in terms of what can I do with this money? That empowers even more, versus, oh, I'll buy another thing or I'll have another, whatever, I don't really need it. I would rather see it move in directions that can make a lot of people happy and things going on and that can only help your business, because, honestly, I feel like you're in toys.  26:30 - Anne (Host) I think about myself in the corporate world. What does it makes us miserable in the corporate world? Oh God, we don't like our colleagues, we don't like our boss. We're boss. It's a toxic environment. I don't make enough money. Exactly Like, if you think about it, if you're treated well in your environment, if you have employees that you're paying and you treat them well and you appreciate them, they're only going to work that much harder for you and you have to incentivize them to want to work for your business, and that is one way to do that.  26:58 So I love this conversation. Again, it's probably something we could have. 20 episodes on Law, I think we will somehow. I think we will. But speaking of allowing yourself to allow that money to flow, if you have a local nonprofit that's close to your heart and you would like to keep the cycle and keep paying it forward, if you've ever wished you could do more to help them, you can visit 100voiceswhocareorg to learn how and big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl you too can connect and network like bosses, just like law and I. So you guys have an amazing week and let's keep that river flowing. All right, bye, have a great week, bye.  27:40 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, ann Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL yeah.  28:07 - Anne (Host) Hey, hey everyone. I don't know why I wasn't ready for that. Take two, Take two, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Boss Superpower series. I am here with my super power.  28:26 - Lau (Co-host) Take three.  28:27 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss. Hey everyone, welcome. God, take five, yeah, take 105.   

Get set to embark on a riveting journey into the world of visual branding, specifically tailored for voice actors. In this enlightening discussion, the BOSSES will empower you with a comprehensive understanding of the critical role visuals play in effectively communicating your brand. We unravel the nuances of building a robust visual presence, which extends beyond just your attire and accessories and dives right into the realm of headshots and text titles for demos. Throughout the episode, we impart our own experiences and valuable insights, showing you how to leverage visuals to connect more deeply with your clientele. 00:01 - Introduction (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:20 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with my lovely boss co-host, Lau Lapides. Oh, hey, Annie.  00:31 So good to see you, how are you Fabulous, how are you? I'm great, I have to tell you. All right. So I apologize for being late to our little recording this morning because I was trying to coordinate the outfit law. Now that we are a visual kind of a brand and we've got video, I'm like all right, so now am I going to wear silver jewelry? Which glasses shall I wear? I'm trying to get that visual brand out there and I've got a set of headshots coming up, oh gosh, in a couple of days. And so I have been literally making a list and coordinating outfits because it is such a big part of my brand and I thought, wow, we should really talk about this for voice actors out there. How important are visuals, how important is that branding and those visuals to your brand and your business?  01:19 - Lau (Co-host) I love that topic and I'm so glad we're going to talk about that today, but I have to bring up the fact that you're on the West Coast. I'm in the East Coast, 3,000 miles away, and yet the mental telepathy of like what you chose to wear today and the fact that it's kind of color coordinated with what I chose to wear is like same way.  01:39 They go great, same wave. Like I'm all over the visuals, I do do do think it's important these days, and you and I do remember the days when the voiceover would hide ourselves, we would not be seen we would never have a photo of us out there ever, because we would be worried about a potential client looking at us and saying, wow, they look like this, but they sound like this.  02:02 - Anne (Host) I'm not going to cast them, right, right it was a thing I mean I remember distinctly when I got into voice herers like you know what I don't want to be in a career that's based on what I look like, okay, and I want to be able to be creative, I want to be able to act, but I don't want it to be dependent on me being young looking or beautiful or anything like that or how I look, and so I was very much into the voice acting.  02:25 However, as I've evolved my business throughout the years, I've really kind of settled into the fact that, as people, we need to connect with other people, and so the visual I've changed my mindset so that I don't have to feel like I look perfect or a particular way. However, for my business and for my brand, I take a lot of care and I take a lot of pride in that, and so I actually strategize. I mean gosh if I tell you I literally been making a list, a list of the outfits, the colors, the props that I'm going to use for my headshots, because I'm envisioning my website right, representing me, who I am, knowing that my clients want to connect with the person. Yes, and I want to stress that it's not about necessarily what you look like. It's about conveying who you are as a person, who you are as a brand, who you are as a business Right.  03:20 - Lau (Co-host) Listen, we can't get out of the fact that we live in a world. A lot of it is visual, it's what we see. Most people are visual learners, so when they pick you up, they're picking you up in 10 seconds less than that visually. So when we're meeting a client, when we're meeting a talent, when we're meeting a prospect, they're going to look at you. If they see you, sure, if they visually see you, okay, what's the first thing we see? It may be a website, it may be a social media post. It may be something that is not physically you. So thinking about what that visual brand is from the start, I think is wise and necessary and important in a visual society.  03:57 - Anne (Host) And when you do have those photos right that are showcasing you in action in your studio and again mine aren't just gonna be your typical headshot, like I mean I will have those, but typical, like from here up they're gonna be like lifestyle shots, they're gonna be shots of me, literally law. I am bringing a desktop boom arm with my microphone, with the headphones, with the laptops and the cables by the way, and the cables.  04:23 And I am dragging that all to the studio where I'm going to get my headshots, because I want those shots to represent who I am in my business and how I interact right with clients in my business and showcasing that so that ultimately people get a sense, a visual sense, because if they do come to my website first, right before they connect with me either on the phone or on a video call or even just hear me, they're seeing me in action and they're seeing my business in action and I think it's so very important for voice talent to really understand that. And again, it's not all about like that typical, like headshot, which it can be, but I really want that to show more about who you are. How is that headshot going to reveal your personality, your business? Because, again, our voices are product right, but our visual brand can also showcase that product.  05:17 I always talk to people about their websites and make sure your demos are above the fold. But, like, when you're placing your demos above the fold, put a text title by the spots that you have in that demo, because otherwise they don't know what's in that demo, they can't see it right, they just see that. Oh, there's an audio file that I can click on and listen to, but three quarters of the way into that audio file I don't know that. You have a Toyota spot right, and so if you're listing those spots out visually right, really it's just text that also helps with your SEO, but that can really, at a glance, somebody seeing oh, she's done work for Toyota right, that can make an impression.  05:54 - Lau (Co-host) Now here's my question of the day. I'm seeing a lot more demos that are video-based demos, so I know the people that that's their real jobs. They have a right to show it. That's their actual jobs and they're utilizing that because it's been aired. Others are creating these visual elements to their demo. I wanted to run that by you and see how are you feeling about that these days. Do you like that trend that's happening? Is it fun and exciting, or do you feel like it's a little edgy showing those visuals that they haven't really been a part of? How?  06:27 - Anne (Host) do you look at that? I'm a big fan. I mean, I've read in the forums. Some people are like, well, are they really giving you a return on your investment? I'm here to say, look, our demo is a marketing product, right? And it's kind of the same question Do we put produced spots or do we put sound effects and music behind an e-learning spot? Because typically there isn't. I'm like, well, this is a showcase, this is a marketing piece, this is a demonstration. Yes, there are times that you'll have music behind your e-learning. You may or may not know that. You don't know what the client is doing with it, necessarily afterwards, and so they're very well-could be, and I've actually seen a lot of e-learning modules where it could be character-based, it could be storytelling, video-based, it can be a lot of different ways to get the interactivity or the engagement with the listener. So, yeah, why not? I mean, it is a marketing piece, and so I feel like a video demo is yet another way to showcase your product. It's not the only way, I feel the same way.  07:26 - Lau (Co-host) Yeah, I feel the same way. I think we're living in a day right now where your visuals mean a lot. I oftentimes say to talent listen your voice actors. So don't be surprised if you have people at a showcase that are a producer or an agent type or even just some corporate prospect, say hey, are you an on-camera actor? I would like to use you in a print ad along with your voice. I would like to use you in this and that, and be prepared for that answer whether you welcome doing on-camera commercial work on-camera TV, film work, print work.  07:58 I think that throws a lot of talent off who only identify as a voice over talent. And don't get me wrong, that's fine, you can just do voiceover and specialize that and don't do anything else. But there's a whole bunch of people that are really open to that idea of doing more. Like, if I get signed by an agency and they want to sign me across the board and they say, hey, we're going to submit you for everything theater, tv, film, voice over, whatever I say, why not if you're interested in pursuing that, yeah, I agree, I agree.  08:30 - Anne (Host) Now let me ask you what sort of tips would you give to people who are really trying to figure out their visual brand? Do you have any tips?  08:40 - Lau (Co-host) I love that and I'm so glad we're talking about that today. I just got out of a coaching session looking at a Vio Talent's first headshot shoot and we were talking about what happens in the face, what happens in the eyes, what people are reading very, very quickly out of that.  08:58 So I think that it's very important to talk to people that are specialists in particular areas. So, for instance, a stylist that's really good may wanna provide for you a look book before you go and take your photos of some fashion looks, some professional looks, some business looks, some whatever looks, so that you can start to mimic those looks that would be right for your styling and your branding. It's hard to come up with that yourself.  09:28 - Anne (Host) I don't think I could even come up with it myself. It's so funny that you mentioned that because literally I just spent a weekend with my very good friend. She's always been a style icon. I've always considered her a style icon. In the last year she's gone into the business and I'm gonna give her a plug. Styled by Gianni yes, gianni, g-i-a-n-a-i yes, styled by Gianni. She's amazing. She's got all different types of packages, but she's sustainably conscious. I mean, she's located in LA. She can work with you remotely. She can work with you in any capacity. She's got all sorts of cool things. If you're just open to a consult, she can chat with you and then discuss colors. If nothing else, right, what colors, what color palettes? What's your body type? She'll take your measurements into consideration. I love it. What type of clothing would be best suited for you? And again, it doesn't necessarily just have to be about you and your clothing and your look, but it can also be about colors, colors that reflect who you are.  10:23 Colors that reflect who you want to be or what you want your business to be. And again, I've got multiple colors. We all know that red and black is the color for VO Boss. However, ink and guza is blue, and I've got a different color for VO Peeps, which is a teal blue, and I love those colors and it's one way that the brand is separated. So think of me. Now I'm gonna go to my photographer, my head shot artist. I'm gonna call her and I'm gonna go over there with I've got three different brands to represent. Literally, if I could ever come to my house, you could just like take photos in my closet, because I've got all these options of clothing and all these options of colors.  10:59 And some of the colors may or may not even have to go with my brand, but they go with my personality, right, I also think too, people are not thinking about the fit of things, so your stylist needs to help you with.  11:11 - Lau (Co-host) I might love this color, but how does it fit my body? Is it showing my body off? I know women, especially younger women, have a tough time with this and oftentimes we'll have things that are too big and baggy or have things that are too tight or showing a mid drift or whatever. Whatever the case may be, that may not be appropriate for your particular branding. So you need someone who understands style but also understands the brand that you want in terms of your fit, your color. Are you trending? Are you moving forward? Do you want to do retro?  11:41 A lot of VO's are very retro. They like doing fifties, forties, voguing stuff. Absolutely, I would say you know what, annie, and this is something you do really well. I would have fun. So many people. It's such a drudgery to go through this kind of thing and I'd say wait a second, especially the talent who are animation artists who are having fun. They're being outrageous a little bit. What if you had one shot on your website under your cartoons where you have little bunny ears or you're doing cosplay, anything, right, right? Who am I thinking of?  12:14 - Anne (Host) Jessica Rabbit.  12:15 - Lau (Co-host) No, no, no, the famous singer piano man. He started out wearing costumes Elton John, Elton John.  12:22 - Anne (Host) Elton.  12:23 - Lau (Co-host) John. Who could be more prolific and serious now? Yeah, really serious about everything. Started out wearing bunny suits, oh my gosh.  12:31 - Anne (Host) And now, if you're going to talk about that, you can talk about Lady Gaga and all of her outfits, cher.  12:37 - Introduction (Announcement) It's endless. And all of her I just saw Cher who looks amazing.  12:40 - Anne (Host) By the way, Awesome she does not age, she does not age, she doesn't age at all, barry. Manilow. I just watched the.  12:45 - Lau (Co-host) Holiday Special of the Dream Lighting.  12:48 - Anne (Host) Yeah, all the icons.  12:50 - Lau (Co-host) I'm getting the clem to it that one, barry Manilow, but I was just thinking about, like an Elvis Costello. If anyone knows Elvis Costello, he was very forward thinking by retching back oh, david Bowie, in his cool black and white suits. You know, david Bowie. So the point is, you don't have to be a pop star, you just have to be authentic to you, your personality, the kind of work you do Absolutely, absolutely, and they work that into their brand.  13:15 - Anne (Host) I mean the way they dress, the way they style. I mean even rock bands, if you remember back in I'm showing them age, but you know, like Kiss, right Makeup and platforms, that kind of thing Anyhow, aren't they doing?  13:26 - Lau (Co-host) I just saw them on TV. They're doing their last. What is it? Madison Square Garden, their last concert? Yeah, their last tour and retiring. It's just pretty amazing. But the point yeah, they were in mask for how many years you never saw their real faces. So the point is is like get yourself to start out, wean yourself into it. Get a good headshot. Just start with a good headshot so that for your PR, if someone says hey, mike, susan, jay, I need you to send me a good photo, you have something and you're not going, let me go through my photo camera roll let's see if I have anything Like have something, and I also would have. You and I were talking about props earlier too. I love that idea. It could be your pet it could be your mic, absolutely.  14:07 - Anne (Host) What is it you're passionate about? Whatever, if, I could bring my cats. If I could put them in a car and drive them, I would bring my cats because yeah, Obviously, yeah.  14:16 - Lau (Co-host) So things that define you in your work day, but also in your personal life, that you love, you care about. Remember one of our favorites, betty White, who I love so much. She was known for the animals. Every time you thought of Betty White, you thought of the animals she was. I remember the PSA she did, annie, where she was surrounded by all the animals because she was helping save the animals. That was something she always had in her PR. Where she could was an animal, absolutely, absolutely.  14:43 - Anne (Host) So these are all visuals for you to be thinking about and not only can they go on your website but they can go in your social media campaigns and promotions. Youtube channel, I mean, again, if you are out there creating something visual, like if you are out there doing a podcast, right, I think today if you're doing a podcast and you don't have a video element to it and I'm not saying maybe the whole podcast has to be video, but honestly I mean everybody's kind of going that way, even though I also have an audio version, you and I have an audio version, but we have a YouTube channel right where we have videos, we do shorts, and so if you want to promote your business and you're doing any type of video or YouTube shorts, obviously you're on camera and there is branding to think about. I mean, if you've gone to all the trouble to create a logo, right, and figure out well what colors, what font, why not just extend it to your personal body, your personal self?  15:37 Because, again, our product is so very personal and I'm going to give a tip that gosh I got a long, long time ago when I worked with my business mentor, who was helping to brand me at the time, was that we created a private Pinterest board and she said to me I want you to just create a board and I want you to put everything on that board that's your favorite thing, like favorite places, favorite colors, favorite things, hobbies, activities, and when you put that board together, when you have your favorite since, she said, I'll include your favorite fonts, right? Well, that was a big mistake.  16:12 - Introduction (Announcement) Cause I have like a thousand favorite fonts.  16:14 - Anne (Host) But anyway, I put that board together and shared it with her and it was a great visual representation of who I am and from there she was able to create a website she was able to help me with branding and help me with marketing campaigns and that really came up with my Angangusa brand, because when I was doing it myself, it's so hard to brand yourself. I think we've had episodes where we've talked about branding. It is hard to brand yourself.  16:39 And even now I have ideas because I help people so much with it. But it's always nice to get that second set of eyes, that second set of ears. That is saying you know what I see you in this light, where you think maybe here's what I'm projecting out. But I need to know how do you see me, how do you see my business and what demographic am I speaking to and what does my look? Or what are the colors? What do the images on my website have to do? What feelings? I think you got to go so far as to what feelings are evoked when somebody looks at your website.  17:13 - Lau (Co-host) That's great Very pathos, very visceral. You got to revisit it too. I think that a lot of talent it evolves.  17:20 I don't know why they think, oh, I've done this, I made a demo, I'm done. I said you made a demo. Honey, you're starting, you're not done, you're going to make another thousand demos over your lifetime. Like, this is just the process. So if you choose a logo that may change in a year or two or three, if you've evolved, all companies rebrand. Yeah, I was just going to say I like to think of it. You've got an interior designer for your home, potentially.  17:44 - Anne (Host) Well, this is an exterior designer for the world and VO Boss has already rebranded once and it is a thing I mean. Rebranding is a thing you need to evolve. I know that my husband's company is going through a large rebranding right now and they're a well established company. So you need to evolve your brand. And we've all seen it with products that we buy, like Coca-Cola rebrand you know it's just people rebrand. When it's time to refresh, rebrand, yes, it's time for you to always revisit these things and I always say come at it from a perspective of where's your heart, where are your passions for where your company is going. And I'm evolving. My Anganguza brand will be evolving and broadening out to a larger audience. And even this podcast.  18:28 I've been always wanting to evolve this podcast to a larger audience so that it's not just voiceover artists. However, it's been voiceover for a good seven years. Now I've got a thought do I start a new podcast if I want to venture out of not that I'm venturing out of voice acting, but if I want to also explore right other avenues, like just podcasting in general, entrepreneurship? Like, do I keep this podcast and then add a new one, or do I rebrand this podcast and evolve? It's not something you do by tomorrow. It's something that takes some thought and sometimes the idea just has to sit with you for a while.  19:05 I remember a few years back, law, I went to rebrand and I was trying to consolidate VioPeeps and VioBoss and I had new designs. I actually had my VioPeeps bird and I made him edgy. So I changed the colors from the VioPeeps bird, from the blue, and I put him in black and red and he's like edgy. I had like a leather jacket, he had like some sunglasses and he was very cool and I got some really cool graphics out of that for a complete consolidation of a brand.  19:34 - Introduction (Announcement) And I decided not to do it after that, but it was something like I said.  19:38 - Anne (Host) It doesn't always have to happen. I mean, I decided against it only because my little bird was just too cute to give up and I loved him, and you know what I said. That's it. I'm going to keep a separate brand, but I think it's something that every year, and especially since we're in the beginning of the year now, right, it's something that people can think about. Right, what are you doing for this next year? What are you doing? Are you evolving? Are you growing? How are you doing that and how are you changing things up? I mean, gosh knows that if you change up your website, it can actually put your SEO into high gear, right? Especially?  20:12 - Introduction (Announcement) if you update content.  20:13 - Anne (Host) If you update pages, update looks, maybe update capabilities.  20:17 - Lau (Co-host) Yeah, and there's a functuary in that it's such a refreshment in doing that.  20:21 You know just when you think you know your favorite company's tagline or slogan. Just look it up. You're going to see sometimes hundreds of slogans that they've used over the years because they're reaching out to different demographics of people and they need to have different visuals right that appeal to those demographics. So I love that. I think you should stay really you know you don't want to change things every two seconds because then people get confused as to who you are but keep it fresh and trendy so that you give yourself flexibility and fluidity to say, um, that color scheme isn't me anymore, or it doesn't really represent the people I work with anymore, or the thing itself, the website itself or whatever, just doesn't look like me anymore. Here's one of the things that I discovered, annie, I know you already know this, but I discovered it only about a year ago and that is why was I in the box of thinking I just needed one website.  21:11 Oh yeah, right so people are having the discussion should I get a website? I'm having the discussion how many websites should I have? So now, for every event I have, I want to do? I'm driving my web people crazy because I'm like it's so inexpensive to get it. People don't have to fight through your website to find the thing you're looking for right.  21:33 To me, that's been my personal playground of visual branding and also ease of navigation for the client to say, oh, it's this particular project, it's a big one, I want to represent it visually aside from everything else we're doing. So when you talk about your different brands, in case people don't understand what that means, it could be something as simple yet sophisticated as having separate websites, absolutely, absolutely.  21:58 - Anne (Host) I mean, for years I've had medicalnarrationcom, I've had phonevoicecom and I've had, for each genre that I specialize in, of course, vopeaps and VOBOSS. I mean, I think at one point I owned like 13 domains and I still have domains. I have domains right now because I have ideas. How many sites do you have now? Though I probably have, I've got VOPEAPS, voboss in Gangusa, automotive, annie medical-narration phone-voicecom, e-learning-voicecom. Gosh, I've got a bunch.  22:31 - Lau (Co-host) And those are all actual websites right. Those are landing page websites that you can get to see what it is.  22:38 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I'm going to revisit and see what my SEO value is for those right now. But if you definitely are pointing people towards your website for promotions or for purchasing, it definitely can help to have it just go to a website. And of course I always, always, always recommend people say, and Gangusa or yournamecom, because you are a personal brand and that's the first and foremost domain I think anybody should get. But it's not expensive to purchase domains these days, unless of course you have a very common name or you want, like voiceactingcom, which that's already taken, but your first and lastnamecom. If not, then your first lastname, voicecom or voice acting or voice actor, those things all are viable.  23:22 - Lau (Co-host) I love it, I love it. And one more thing, Annie, I want to bring up. That's what my dad always called ATD attention to detail, which really makes a difference.  23:31 Now maybe more viable in a time where we were meeting people in person more than we are now, but I'm going to say it anyway because I personally like to get out and go to physical events. If you go anywhere to meet someone outside of your office, in your studio, not only worry about the way you look, but be concerned about if you drive watch your car. That's something that we always said oh, do I want to do the deal with this person? Their car is filthy. I just got inside of it. It's a mess, right?  24:02 Real estate agents used to talk about that a lot because they'd get inside other people's car to go look at properties or they'd get in the real estate agents car. So I know it may or may not like pertain to some of the listeners right now, but some that are going out physically to meetings, to networking, to this, to that like how you show up physically to the parking lot, come into the room, whatever, just it all kind of matters, it all matters. Don't think, oh, I'm offstage right now, no one sees me, no one cares. Until I enter the room, they do care, they look at you and they say is this the kind of person that I want to know Is it the person that I want to work with?  24:40 - Anne (Host) potentially, it's just never thought about that. Never thought about that.  24:44 - Lau (Co-host) Right, If you're meeting for a Zoom coffee or a real coffee, you're going to Starbucks or whatever. Like, just think about. Right, Bring your notebook, take notes. That's a visual right, good advice. Wow.  24:57 - Anne (Host) Well, this was a fun topic. I love it. Fun. We could go on and on, we could Bosses. As individuals, it can seem difficult to make a huge impact, but as a group, together we can contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never before thought possible. Visit 100voiceswhocareorg to learn how Big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. We love IPDTL because I love talking to law and I love connecting with other bosses. You can find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Awesome Bye.  25:34 - Lau (Co-host) See you next time. Bye.  25:37 - Introduction (Announcement) Yay. Join us next week for another edition of Vo Boss with your host and Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.  26:08 - Anne (Host) Law you just had, like a series of fireworks.  26:15 - Lau (Co-host) I know what happened there. I should keep that in there. I don't know, I have no idea. Oh my goodness, I thought it might be something on your end. I don't know, I've never, but you and I, we are making fireworks together.  26:28 - Anne (Host) There you go, we are making fireworks.   

Prepare yourself to delve into the beautiful dance of giving and receiving - a balance, when maintained, that can have profound impacts on both your work and personal life. We’ll explore the joy of giving and the ripple effects it carries for both the giver and recipient, as well as the importance of receiving recognition in the business world. As we navigate this conversation, we'll also challenge the constant need for validation and discuss how rewarding achievements can foster healthier self-esteem. Join us as we explore the complexities of acknowledging one's worth and the importance of fair compensation. Essential listening for anyone who struggles with receiving, this episode promises to enlighten and inspire. 00:01 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VEO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:19 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VEO Boss podcast and the Boss Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, along with my amazing, awesome, most wonderful boss, co -host Lau Lapides. Hey, Lau, hi, hi, Annie. Happy Saturday, yes, happy Saturday, Lau. You know, Lau, it's a new year and I am full of promise and full of motivation and inspiration and we've just come off the season of. I like to call it the season of giving, because I love to give gifts and I love to donate to my favorite charities. And you know what? I also like to receive gifts, but we don't always talk about that. We talk about giving, but what about receiving? And sometimes Lau those gifts, they're not in a box. So let's talk about the gift of receiving, shall we?  01:14 - Lau (Host) It's so interesting to me. I love this topic and because there's so many cultural differences of how we receive. There's gender differences, there's age and generational differences and I don't hear anyone really talking about how do we get something, receive something, take something, and how do we behaviorally deal with that. Yeah, like something is simple. I'll tell you what's in my brain right now. When someone comes into my home or my studio, the first thing I do and this was in my training was to offer them something. I offer them a hot drink.  01:51 - Anne (Host) I offer them a warm beverage.  01:52 - Lau (Host) I offer them a warm beverage of their choice, right, and that is definitely generational, but it's also cultural because that's the background Eastern European background. We are gift givers. We give a lot to others, right, and there's different schools of thought business-wise as to how you receive that, and how I train my clients is take it, take it. You don't have to drink it, you don't have to want it, but take it because it's giving a message to the person who's giving it to you that you are cordially receiving something that they're offering to you.  02:29 That's part of their protocol and they're etiquette right.  02:32 - Anne (Host) Well, I'll tell you one thing that's always been hard for me to receive and I think a lot of maybe women, maybe a lot of people share. This is a compliment I'm just saying that is so difficult for me, without downplaying it, and honestly, the best thing you can do to receive that compliment is to receive it with gratitude even if you don't feel it right.  02:55 I mean, how many times do people send a compliment your way and you're like, oh no, it was nothing. Or, and especially, though, when it comes to our businesses too though, isn't it funny. When it comes to our businesses, I am more than happy to take a compliment from a client. Do you know what I mean? If a client's like, oh my God, great job, right, I'm very happy about that. Inside, I'm bursting with pride and joy and hopefully that's every boss out there when they get a compliment or good feedback from their client, and I think that you must receive that. And if you receive that, that really speaks volumes to professionalism, right and courtesy, and understanding what it means to the other person when they're giving you something such as a compliment doesn't have to have monetary value, of course.  03:37 Well, like to have gifts of gold but in addition to that, gift of a kind word is really something I think that is truly like giving of the other person, and if you reject it, then that's a little insulting and hurtful.  03:53 - Lau (Host) I think you hit the nail on the head too when you said, especially with women, how we're not always in the mood to receive that or expecting that or even deserving of that. In our mindset, it's a little bit of that imposter syndrome that comes in when someone gives you that compliment and that moment of like oh, how do I take that? Do I deserve that? Oftentimes we'll say, oh no, I just got this dumb outfit.  04:19 - Anne (Host) You know it was on sale. Anyway, you look terrific, you look great and I throw it.  04:22 - Lau (Host) This old thing, yeah, this old thing, it's been hanging in my closet Doesn't mean but you look terrific, you look amazing. We'll throw it right back at the other person, which they don't realize oftentimes. That is a passive aggressive non accepting value, because it's not just a compliment, it's showcasing your value.  04:43 - Anne (Host) It's almost like when you throw it back and it's not that you don't mean it, but sometimes when you throw it back immediately, it's almost like you don't accept what they're giving to you and you're like, oh no, you look great. And so then it becomes that kind of a battle of maybe, well, who's giving here and who's the gracious receiver right?  05:00 - Intro (Announcement) There's gracious giving and there's gracious receiving.  05:03 - Anne (Host) And I truly believe that it needs to be within our boss superpowers to be able to receive and something that's we're talking a little more on maybe a loftier level in terms of nothing that has monetary value, but definitely has value like a compliment right, an act of kindness, that sort of thing. What about money Lau? I mean, how hard is it sometimes for us to accept for a job Well done, I'm happy to accept money, but thinking about, am I worth the money, am I asking for enough money? And what if I get more money? And is that hard for me to receive? Because, again, we have some of these mental issues sometimes with accepting money and that really kind of, I think, goes back to our value or our feelings of self worth.  05:47 - Lau (Host) Yes, yes, yes, yes. And you know what that money may be in money form and it may go towards an actual gift right. And I recently received. One of the gifts in the mail I literally just got within a week ago was from a client of mine who sent me one of those beautiful boxes for a holiday for. Thanksgiving that was chock full of coffee, beans and caramel and just everything under the sun.  06:09 - Anne (Host) And.  06:09 - Lau (Host) I was so surprised when I opened it up. I was so amazed that someone was thinking of me in that way, but how I reacted to it now, on retrospect, when I look at that, what did I do immediately? I thanked her, I loved it, and then I immediately started to give it away. I immediately started to offering to my clients coming through that.  06:29 - Anne (Host) I see to my family.  06:30 - Lau (Host) Oh, here, let me share, let me, here, let me give this to you. Let me share this to you. And I oftentimes wonder is a gift really meant for you when it's given to you, or is it meant for you to do what you see fit with that gift? So, if you get the monetary cash and you want to give it to charity, how would that person, how would the giver actually feel about that if they really wanted to give it to you? That's an interesting question.  06:56 - Anne (Host) Yeah, that is an interesting question. Well, you know what I think? That if a gift is given, it is because or at least for me, the person that is giving it wants to extend a gift for the other person to experience joy, I would think, and appreciation, and I feel like for me, whatever they choose to do with it, I mean, unless I feel like they secretly hate it and they gave it away and they're like, oh gosh, this is like what is it called?  07:21 - Intro (Announcement) An elephant gift. An elephant gift yes exactly.  07:24 - Anne (Host) And so then I would be a little hurt if I knew. But I think my intentions are to provide a token of appreciation, a token of here's how I feel about you. And if the other person doesn't accept it for themselves graciously at first, and then I realize, oh, maybe they've immediately given it away or something, then I would be hurt. I would be hurt by that Feeling like they've rejected my gift.  07:45 - Lau (Host) But, annie, let's be honest, we've all done that. Haven't we all gotten that scarf? Or those gloves that are just the ugliest thing in the world, do you think? Oh, they're itchy, they don't really fit me. Well, let me, elephant, gift that to someone who will appreciate it. And if not, you notice people are starting to say if you don't want it, it's okay, pass it on. I'm like a donate.  08:05 - Anne (Host) The other thing would be like here's one things that people have made for me. Now, this could be homemade food. This could be homemade gifts. This could be my grandmother knitting me a sweater, or my mother knitted me.  08:18 I'm gonna get me all teary, but my mother, she knitted me afghans and blankets, and my aunt used to so close for me, and it reminds me of the bunny suit on a Christmas story with Ralphie, and so you accept that and you're grateful for it, because there was thought and love put into the gift and so receiving that means that you're receiving that love. You're receiving that gift.  08:41 - Lau (Host) You're receiving it, you're suck it up. You do you do. You're totally, because it's not the color of your bedroom and it just is not the feel that you wanna put on your body, but you love it. You put it on display somewhere. You just have to appreciate that, right. What about this one? What about from a philosophical point of view? As we live our lives every day around the holiday season, how are we viewing gifts that are given by others or by the universe? Are we recognizing any gifts, gifts?  09:09 - Anne (Host) from the universe Locke. Let's delve deeper into that. So what gifts from the universe? What would be some examples? I like that.  09:16 - Lau (Host) Well, I'm a New Englander, so on the New England track. I think all of us can relate that come from cold weather climates and when I have more, temperate weather or. I have a winter where we're not like snowed in and killing ourselves with the slush. To me, I recognize that as an immense gift.  09:35 - Anne (Host) Nice and Californians are very grateful for rain.  09:38 - Lau (Host) Yes, oh yes, yes, yes, yes. How about the gift of looking in the mirror and seeing yourself for what you actually see, not for what you want to see? So that is, as you age, seeing the wrinkles, seeing the imperfections, seeing the scars, but then feeling like, wow, there's a gift in there for me of understanding.  10:02 - Anne (Host) That represents my life, my heart. Here I have to tell you because my own personal experience. I have lost a little bit of weight and so I look at my body, which is now kind of a wrinkly because I got some skin, and I look at that and I'm like, ok, that could be considered by some to not be attractive, but for me it's almost like it's a battle scar. It's like you know what I'm proud of?  10:23 my body I am proud, I am grateful. I am actually so grateful for my body, for being resilient and for the things that my body has been through, and I think that we can apply this to our businesses as well right, our journey as our businesses. But, like my body has been through a journey, my mentality, my entrepreneurship has been through a journey, and I'm grateful for all of it because I've survived it and I've been able to come out the other side more joyful and educated and more motivated to do even more. And so I really try to take a look at that and be grateful for that gift from the universe right that I have received. And I love that we kind of brought the gifts from the universe into this discussion, because I think we have them every day and we don't always recognize them for what they are and we aren't always receiving them or acknowledging them with the amount of gratitude or thought that I think we should.  11:23 - Lau (Host) Right, or even just mindfulness, conscientiousness of seeing it and observing. We talk about it from an actor's point of view, but from a human point of view, are you really seeing what is in front of you? What are you uncovering? And since we're diving deep, I'll go one deeper, because you're not only surviving and you're thriving in the gratefulness and recognition, in the gift of that, and that's what makes you so beautiful, both aesthetically but also inside. There's a beauty and a light that happens in you. To me that's very recognizable and I'm going to dive even deeper. I'm going to say I have someone very close to my family suffering from a very deadly illness and eating it and I watch it every day go into remission and I watch it turn around and I watch it Now, from the outside, this person is somewhat suffering and all of that. From the inside, I see that little soul, that little spirit winning and I'm like a gift a gift, a gift, a gift every day.  12:28 - Anne (Host) It's so true.  12:29 - Lau (Host) If I lose the job, if I don't look good one day, whatever, this is the gift that I'm going to keep coming back to, of course, and I totally identify with that.  12:38 - Anne (Host) I mean it is, and we've talked about this before.  12:41 I mean, yeah, when someone that you love or someone you're close to is going through a challenge mental challenge, health challenge, whatever that might be I mean, in reality, it really points us towards knowing and understanding what those gifts are. And I've said it before, when I was going through my own health challenge, I mean, once I got back in the studio, I was like gosh, what was I ever worried about? You know, here I was thinking, oh, my voice doesn't sound in a particular way or I'd worry about those things, and I'm like my gosh, I have just been given this immense gift and I'm here to be able to experience and here to be able to just do what I love in this booth and just be, just be and be grateful. And well, I'll tell you what that comes through in our voices, doesn't it? It emanates from us and, as performers, I think that it behooves us to be good receivers, right Of the gifts that are being given to us, because it just absorbs into our energy and just radiates out from our performances.  13:39 - Lau (Host) It so does, and I mean the gift of knowledge of how to give as well, so like, for instance, when it comes to philanthropy and charity. I love that. I'm big in that. I'll give a quick plug to our 100 voices who care.  13:54 - Intro (Announcement) We love.  13:54 - Lau (Host) Claire and the gang we love so much. I'm a member and to me it's such a relief, it's such a relief gift to me to figure out how to give in a very safe and impactful and thought away. And as long as I make money, I'm going to give forever because I don't have to think about it. It's one less thing I have to think about because I know it's vetted, I know it's legit and I know the people come from their heart and soul. Wow, to me that's a gift.  14:23 - Anne (Host) Exactly, and you know, the cool thing about 100 Voices who Care is, honestly, it does not take a lot of money, and that's really what the big thing is, and it's literally $100, four times a year, and that's it. And ultimately that, combined with the community, the togetherness that is also in kind, donating that, that is $10,000 that can be given to people in need or organizations in need, and I think that that's absolutely wonderful and I think, really, whatever giving charity that you want, again giving that and then expecting that the people who are in need are receiving that and they're grateful for it right, that's what makes the world go round and that's what I think really giving is so easy to talk about, because I love to give myself and I mean I consider the VoBoss we're giving of ourselves joyfully, because it's something that we both love to do, we love to share, we love to be a resource, we love to help if we can, and that's what we're here for.  15:19 But I really really also want bosses out there to understand the importance of being able to see and acknowledge and receive in kind and be okay, it is for you, it doesn't have to be for anybody else, you don't have to feel compelled to turn around and give it somewhere else.  15:36 I fully believe that if a gift is meant for you and you love it and you keep it for yourself, you give in other ways, right? I mean it doesn't have to be that you have to turn around and feel like, oh, I either need to give that gift or give a portion of that gift, or you can keep it. I mean it's okay, it was meant for you and love, and that is something that I think is really wonderful. And, of course, I mean let's make it more from a business perspective, right, being able to ask for the money that you deserve for a job that has been well done is, first of all, when you do that yes, do that but when you get that actual money and you receive that money, then you'll notice that I feel like the cycle or the circle has been completed.  16:18 - Lau (Host) Yes, absolutely. And here's another one that is amazing but can be tricky in how it's received. You and I, I know I'm grateful and fortunate that we're nominated.  16:27 You and I and our companies for SOVA's nominations, which I'm thrilled I'm over the moon. So when I learned that now you've been nominated for years now that was my first time around being nominated when I learned that it challenged me a little I'll be honest with you. It challenged me. I had to sit there and go, well, okay, do I deserve that? Is that okay, do I deserve that? Was there anyone that deserves it more than me? Or, like it challenged me in a way, I was over the moon, thrilled. I love to be a part of it, the community be recognized. But at the end of the day, you have to sit alone with yourself and say I did this, we did this, I did this and I accept the good things coming my way, along with the challenging things as well.  17:14 It's like you have to have a little conversation with yourself about that and I'm very careful, like I don't want my head to be big. I don't want to be gloaty about it, I don't want to hold it over anyone else. I want to be very humane about the recognition that I slash we as the company get because I feel so grateful for it. I don't feel like, oh, of course I deserved it, I'm the best. I feel like that's going in a direction of morality that is not of high integrity. The highest integrity people are people who are humble and they're modest and they have humility about themselves and their work. Those are the people that I always have admiration for yeah, absolutely, I love that.  17:54 - Anne (Host) And receiving acknowledgement right Receiving acknowledgement is absolutely another important, very important, I think, factor in really having fulfilling and successful entrepreneurial journeys and businesses right.  18:08 I think a lot of times what happens? We get a lot of people coming into this industry that are so unhappy and there are jobs, because I always tell people in the corporate world all we really want is love. All we want is love and acknowledgement right Like validation. It helps to make money right so you can pay the bills. Absolutely, I mean that's first and foremost.  18:26 But I think a lot of times when people are dissatisfied with their work, it's because they've really put their heart and soul into it and nobody's acknowledged that and nobody has really recognized that or given them a compliment or credited them for that, and so that, I think, is one source of people really wanting to come into business for themselves. And so now when we're entrepreneurs feedback that we get and it's rare that we get feedback from clients right, unless we go out and ask for it, which I'm the biggest fan of, going out and getting testimonials right Get yourself that acknowledgement. But also, when it comes unexpectedly, it's something that I think we need to be prepared to just receive it and be grateful for it and really know that you're worth it, because there's something to be said about people who are constantly degrading or downplaying or shunning those compliments or acknowledgments or awards, and we did a podcast on awards. There's just there's lots of different opinions about awards. Do people need an award to do their business? Not necessarily.  19:26 But I'll tell you sometimes that recognition very similar to being in a corporate job or whatever it might be getting a little bit of recognition can really help emotionally. Mental I mean. I feel like everything in life it all stems mentally and then it kind of I'm going to say, pushes out physically, right. Like I feel like everything is in our head, like that's what is controlling the earth, right? Our thoughts, right, I feel it's our thoughts and how we feel about ourselves and how we feel about others and how we treat it. It just directly affects the physical everything and I think that it's so important.  19:59 - Lau (Host) I just rambled off on this kind of tangent, but I think it's all related, right, it's all related because if think of any relationship we have, like I love acknowledging, I love validating, I love giving compliments, I love that it doesn't only make me feel good, it's necessary, it's like, okay, we're going to be tough on someone, we're going to give honest feedback, we're going to say no to someone, we're going to be harsh at times, but it's really important to have those moments where you go you know what, I'm really proud of you. Or hey, you did it, Nicely done. I'm so excited for you.  20:34 Because otherwise I find people in general get really down on themselves very fast and then lose steam, lose energy, lose motivation, because they ultimately start to want to please or be liked by the casting, producer, coach, whatever, and it becomes personalized in that way. So it's like a fine line. I of course, want to have that no-like and trust factor. Of course I want to have that in the business world. But there's a fine line Like we don't want to be motivated to only be liked and only be validated, right.  21:11 Otherwise you're seeking to receive things all the time which are not earned they're not always well earned. They're just that little honor, that little star, for no reason. I want to live in a meritocracy. Still, I want to be rewarded when I'm earned.  21:27 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I love that you brought that up because you're right, Seeking to receive all the time is not good either. Being able to receive is one thing, but seeking to always have likes or stuff like that is also not healthy and doesn't create for a healthy business either. Right, when you're constantly seeking approval and I think that really kind of stems from other issues, like when you're seeking approval all the time, and that could be a whole other podcast Lau.  21:51 - Lau (Host) That is a whole other podcast approval. Yeah, how do we respond to all of the things that happen in our world that are not what we want or not what we're expecting to come back to us? How do we respond to those things Like not being nominated, not getting the award, not getting? How do we respond to that?  22:13 - Anne (Host) That always is a little pain, oh, always a pain, even when you know better, like myself, and we know we've been on both sides right when we want that acknowledgement, we want that award, we want that feedback, and sometimes it just doesn't come back to us the way that we want. And so how do we deal with that right? Again, that's not necessarily a rejection right of something that you're receiving, it's that you haven't received it. And so now, what? Now, what do you do with that longing, that desire, that hope? How do you get yourself back in balance?  22:44 - Lau (Host) That's right. That's right. Balance is really the key because the more balanced we are, the more we can easily give and offer and receive and take. And not do it from an ego point of view, not do it from this heavy ego centric, really do it from a place that's very balanced and very open and very like. It's like a give and take of Feng Shui. You know what I mean. Like you're cleansing Every time you give something away. I find when I Feng Shui my office or my studio and I give things away, if it's received well, I feel cleansed right, and if I'm receiving something, well, I feel cleansed.  23:19 There's like a cathartic thing that happens, a purification that happens if it's not coming from pure ego which. I love. I think it's fabulous.  23:27 - Anne (Host) I can talk Clear the clutter, clear the clutter, clear the clutter, physically clear the clutter in your brain. I mean it can really do a lot to propel you and your business forward. Absolutely, absolutely. What a really cool conversation Lau. I love it, I love it Beautiful I love it, guys.  23:43 And, as we spoke about before, 100 Voices who Care, simple Mission, big Impact 100 Voices, 1 hour, $10,000,. Guys, you can really make an impact. Visit 100voiceswhocareorg to find out more and big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. Gosh, I love IPDTL, I just love IPDTL. They give us the opportunity to give and receive Lau at UNI back and forth for this podcast, and I absolutely love the fact that we can connect and do so. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.  24:19 - Lau (Host) See you next time.  24:21 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VoBoss with your host, Ann Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Are you ready to become the architect of your own success? This episode is a catalyst for inspiring business transformations. Anne and Lau uncover exciting possibilities that come with starting something new, and guide you on how to kindle creativity for innovative ideas. Discover how the power of writing can become a game-changer for your creativity and personal development. Delve into how expressing your thoughts and ideas on paper encourages new, innovative ideas. Learn why feedback is crucial, and the profound impacts a business mentor can have on your business. The BOSSES emphasize patience, persistence, and maintaining an abundant mindset when investing in yourself and your business. From successful direct marketing strategies to the creation of tangible proofs of concept, we've got you covered. Let's level up your business together! Transcript 00:01 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:20 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VEO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, along with my amazing special guest co-host Lau Laupides. 00:33 - Lau (Host) And how are you? Welcome to be back. I'm fabulous. How are you?  00:37 - Anne (Host) It's a brand new day. Lau, it's a brand new day. It's a new year. I am excited, Speaking of new. I think it's time for us to maybe talk about setting goals, starting something new. I always get a great thrill, a great anticipation and excitement when I start something new, and I think it's something that can really help bosses to grow their businesses, to be continually moving forward and progressing, and I think it's wonderful to challenge ourselves. What about you? I?  01:06 - Lau (Host) love it. I would love to do some tips on how we can start something new, because it's that feng shui of your soul, your spirit, your closet, your studio, your whatever, your car, your relationship. It's like how do I not only cleanse and clean things out, but how do I make the fire happen, how do I create it? And do it on a reguLaur basis as a soloprenor, as an entrepreneur? That's what our job is. It's really to constantly create things. Create, that's why we're creatives. That's why we're creatives.  01:37 - Anne (Host) Yes, and we really need to embrace. Embrace the creativeness, even if you feel that you're not creative, right, and you feel, and it's scary, I'll tell you a lot it's scary to start new things, because what if we fail? Right.  01:49 - Intro (Announcement) What if it doesn't work?  01:51 - Anne (Host) What are we going to do? And so I think that there's a lot of anguish that happens before we start something new, or goodness gracious knows that I can procrastinate along with the best of them right, but once I get a focus right.  02:04 I'm focused, but I'll tell you what. Getting started and starting something new A lot of times I know that bosses will be like I don't even know where to start. So what are some tips on? How can we generate new ideas right? I mean, some of them can come from within ourselves, but I'll tell you what. There's technology out there that can help us to maybe spur some new ideas for how to grow our business right.  02:26 - Lau (Host) I would have a little something, a little trinket, a mechanism, a toy or whatever. That is your reset button, that's your little thing that you go to. I used to have staples button.  02:35 - Anne (Host) When I worked with staples. Yes, that was easy.  02:37 - Lau (Host) I literally hit it on my desk and go boom, that was easy, so you need something physical in your environment whether it's a stuffed  02:46 animal, whether it's a little bell, a little bell or something. It sounds ridiculous, but I'm telling you your brain takes recording really well. Ironically, we're in the business of recording everything. We do, everything we say, every move we make. We're being recorded. So every time you do that little Pavlovian dog behavioral thing, your brain goes something good is coming, something new is happening. I'm going to accept it into the reality that I want safety, I want comfort and I want to know exactly what's coming up. So it's going to reset that for you, so that you've got a mindset focus reset before you do anything. I think that's really important.  03:26 - Anne (Host) I feel like we could do a search on Amazon or something and something like a reset button or a new button or something that will help us. So if you're looking for that physical thing, that button to push, or there's always the staple, that's easy button, which I love.  03:39 - Intro (Announcement) I had a bell and that kind of thing.  03:40 - Anne (Host) But, yeah, I like that. That's a good start now. So what? What are we going to do? That's new. How are we going to come up with ideas? I think a lot of us have ideas on what we'd like to do to move our business forward. Oh, build a new studio. Maybe there's roadblocks, right, but these roadblocks can actually, I think, motivate us to get started on something new, because we can then work towards achieving our goal, and I don't want this to necessarily turn into the goal achieving episode but it's very simiLaur.  04:07 Because what if? Okay, I want to start something new, I want to go into a different genre of voiceover, or I want to build a new studio, or I want to rearrange my office space right so it's more conducive to working more efficiently? Whatever it might be, I think it starts with the idea and it starts with that little thing. Here we go Right now. What are the steps that it's going to take to get there right, To start this, to actually accomplish this?  04:35 - Lau (Host) By the way, you could go very Eastern philosophy. You could do either a gong or you could do some chimes. I love the chimes. The chimes is really cool to my ear. I have tincture bells.  04:44 - Anne (Host) I don't know if those of you out there.  04:45 - Intro (Announcement) I love tincture bells.  04:47 - Anne (Host) Tincture bells are, I think, very good vibrations and good energy, and tincture bells are just a beautiful sounding bell.  04:53 - Lau (Host) All right, I have a really cool exercise, annie, that I use for a number of the soloprenore cLausses that I teach, that I myself love doing, and that is we put on some really cool music. My favorite is bonobo. We put on some fabulous music and we do like a timed brain dump, and the timed brain dump usually for me is six minutes, but it could be whatever you choose, and it's a time where we put on that music. We focus our pen or pencil on the paper. Now we are not allowed to pick the pen or pencil up for six minutes, meaning I don't allow critiquing, I don't allow editing, I don't allow review. It's not grammatically correct. It is a creative writing exercise for you to dump out everything in your brain, refocus. But, most importantly, Wait.  05:41 - Anne (Host) You don't pick up the pen until six minutes, and then, after six minutes, you pick up the pen.  05:46 - Lau (Host) No, it doesn't matter what you're writing. You're allowing your subconscious to drain itself. So that you and your intellect have nothing to do with it. It's really about so you're not writing. You're dumping, You're writing. You're actually writing what you're dumping.  06:00 - Anne (Host) Oh, I thought you said you don't pick up the pen.  06:02 - Lau (Host) Well meaning, you don't pick up the pen to stop writing, you keep your pen to the paper.  06:06 Oh, I see, I see, I see and you write and it can be tiring, it can be physically demanding for people who are not used to writing, but it's important because we get in the way so much of the ideas Like we got to get ideas out there before we can dissect them or critique them and sometimes nothing comes of it. But oftentimes there are things lodged in our brain that are either exciting us, bothering us, sticking, coming back, that we need to awaken and pay attention to, for that new idea.  06:37 - Anne (Host) Now, during this exercise, you're writing everything that's coming into your brain Everything, Even if it's not a new idea right, even if it's like oh my gosh. What are we going to have for dinner tonight? Or I'm hungry. Or okay, even that.  06:48 - Lau (Host) Okay, it's a total stream of consciousness. They used to use this in psychotherapy, where you would speak it out loud, but I like the privacy of being able to write it because you're not necessarily sharing it with anyone, absolutely Unless you choose to. It's really for your own purpose of writing everything out, so it might look like oh, I'm hot right now and I need a banana and that coffee hurts me. And he sucked. And why did he break?  07:12 - Anne (Host) up with me and I don't have money for a microphone. I need a banana. I need a banana right now.  07:18 - Lau (Host) Right, but see, notice that banana jumped out at you. That may be my next creative idea about the banana, about the banana.  07:26 - Anne (Host) I love it. No, I love that. Okay, and so after six minutes, then what happens? We've got a bunch of writings on our paper.  07:32 - Lau (Host) Well, that's up to us how we want to facilitate that. We can either leave it alone, put it in our corner where we put our writing and just feel like we've been drained a little bit, we've been fungshuated a little bit, or we can look at that in my coaching. I'll look at that a lot, circle and have people pick out yes. Emphasize the words, the ideas that resonate to them in that moment.  07:54 - Anne (Host) I love that.  07:55 - Lau (Host) And usually there's a couple in there. I love that. Usually there's like hate my mother oh, that's interesting. Hate your mother Okay. So let's look at that right. And then that can go in many, many directions. It could be anything. It could be comedy, sure. It could be absurd. It could be not even a reality in your mind. It could be a podcast on your mother Right. It could be something. It could be the evolution of a podcast on your mother.  08:17 - Anne (Host) It could be a film.  08:18 - Lau (Host) I saw that was called Hate my Mother, and I can't get it out of my head because I love how they shot something or I love the sound of the film.  08:26 - Anne (Host) See, as you go deeper into that, right, did you love about it? It sparked something creative, like you could do this. Yes, or we should do something like this, or, you know, it would be cool if this were developed. I have so many good ideas. How many times bosses out there have you had an idea and you're like, oh man, or you'll see a new thing that comes out, a new gadget, and you'd be like man, I had that idea, that was my idea, like years ago, right, and we never really kind of took action on it. And a lot of times it's because it is something new.  08:56 There's not a lot of things out there to reference it. We don't know quite how to wrap our heads around it. We don't know how to get started, we don't know how to maybe put it into action. And I'll tell you what. I think that those circled words or whatever those things that are in your brain. You can then start to say, all right, how can I make this happen?  09:15 And if this is going to be something, hopefully it's something that will move you ahead in your business. And I'm a big believer that if you're moving ahead in your personal development, you're also moving ahead in your business Because, again, our business is so much connected to who we are and ourselves and so really that can be motivational to really moving forward. So, yeah, you've got those ideas. Now what is it going to take to put those ideas in motion? What is it going to take? And a lot of times people might say, well, money, okay, all right, money might be what you consider to be your barrier, right, but we can figure out what are ways to overcome that barrier of money. How can we make more money? How can we put some money aside every month to be able to continually add to the budget to make this happen?  10:01 - Lau (Host) Mm-hmm. I also find, annie, that when you write something down, it becomes more real when you pull it out of your head. I agree it's not real in your head. I mean just because this is what neurosurgeon had famous talks. Just because you're thinking it doesn't mean it's real. It doesn't mean it's true right, like I need to hear that from a neurosurgeon. But it's true because when I think it, I think that it's actually true.  10:24 But when I put it on paper, all of a sudden I can clean that shop, I can decipher it differently, like what I want to be tackling, what I don't want to be tackling, right. So when I tackle it, when I say I'm gonna emphasize that I'm gonna tackle that I and this is just my process I like to start sharing that with confidence. I like to start coming together and colLauborating and brainstorming before I even get to money and budgets and all that stuff. I like to come with someone and say am I crazy? Am I sane? Is this worth time? What do you think? And if I hear this common response of ooh, that's interesting, yeah, that's cool.  11:00 - Anne (Host) It inspires me, or would you buy this, or would this be something that you would like, or that kind of thing?  11:06 - Lau (Host) Absolutely, absolutely cuz it's not real yet in my mind it's not even real if I believe in it yet. I want to see what our community response is. I don't share it with a million people, but I share with a few confidants to see what their gauges. I'm gonna tell you.  11:19 - Anne (Host) For years now for oh gosh, probably 15 years I have had a business mentor, somebody that I meet with, and I used to meet with her a whole lot more when I was first Initially starting in the business. But we could brainstorm together right, how can I grow my business, what do I see for myself in the future and what does it gonna take to get there? And we still do that to this day. It was, again, outside of my account and I always love my account, but one of the best investments I ever made in my business was hiring her to be that and she's not necessarily in the business, right, so somebody that can help me to figure out. Okay, what's new? Right, and we actively talk about things at the end of the year or at the beginning of the year like what's new. But I think, more importantly, it's not just end of year, beginning of year, it is every month. Right, I have a standing appointment with her every month and we talk about okay, what are we gonna do now? What are we heading towards? What are we evolving towards? And we talk about having a pLaun B for your business or a parallel paths of passive income. I love that parallel path of passive income. We've got a lot of peas in there, and good thing I'm not too close to my mic, but those things are always Evolved and developed during those monthly meetings.  12:29 Now I think it's something that you can absolutely start every month yourself or put yourself on.  12:34 I think every month is good to be able to come up with new ideas, come up with new things to try. It doesn't have to be an entirely new idea, but it can be a new offshoot Based upon, let's say, a long-term goal you have of oh, I want to be able to do animation, and so that may be a long term goal. So then, what's a new goal for next month? Well, let's decide on a coach, right, let's start working with a coach. Let's call a series of coaches and let's see who I click with, right, and then let's do one session with each coach and then really find out who I jive, who I meld with, and then we can then start training. So it can be something new every single month, and I think that really helps you to gosh. Stagnation for me is the worst. That is when I think nothing moves forward. Their businesses don't move forward, and then people end up maybe not being in business anymore, or quitting or being discouraged.  13:27 - Lau (Host) Exactly that's when you start getting down on yourself and you become a saboteur and you sabotage things. So yes, I'm all for that, and I'll even say to piggyback onto that find groups or find specific moments of events that you can sit in on or be a part of that. You can conjure ideas up as you listen to the group. Be careful of not spending your whole time, your whole week, in groups, because then that can confuse you because you're going to hear a lot of ideas and a lot of different thoughts.  13:55 A lot of opinions, but pick and choose yeah, pick and choose your group really, really well and wisely, so that what you hear, you know, is coming from a very high level and that will help inspire ideas. That, oh, I never thought of that. I never thought that they would view me in that way. I never thought of that kind of project that can be an inspirational force as well.  14:14 - Anne (Host) Now there can be times when I feel like you can have so many ideas that it's overwhelming right, and then it's like no ideas at all get developed right.  14:22 So you want to be careful of overwhelming yourself with new ideas, and I'm going to say that goals are wonderful.  14:28 I'm thinking ideas, they evolve into goals.  14:30 But I think ideas are wonderful because it's just a great like inspirational spot to start from and then I think it can turn into a goal based upon the market, based upon realism, based upon okay, I've got an idea for an extension of my business, but then maybe when you talk it over with some people, you find that maybe there isn't a ton of demand out there for it, because it can be a cool idea, but in order to turn a profit, it has to appeal to other people too. So there's got to be time spent in researching those ideas to make sure. Are you going to spend the time and effort in developing them further? And so try not to overwhelm. I love that you said be careful with being part of too many accountability groups or too many groups, because, yes, you can get too many opinions, you can get too many ideas. Here you should do it this way. Here you should work with this coach, here you should get this demo and then you're confused and then you're like, oh God, I just don't even know what to do.  15:26 I think, honestly, if we sit down, I love the brain dump on the paper. I think that is really amazing because that is starting with you. It's starting with your desires, your passions, whatever you're feeling, and I feel like, rather than somebody telling you this is what you should do, here's what you have a gut feeling about. I'm a big believer in your gut right. This is what I'm passionate about, and if you're passionate about it, you're going to have the motivation to go and get it.  15:52 - Lau (Host) Yes, and here's a role pLauy for you. I do this with myself all the time and it makes me feel so good, something neutralizing about it. I'll refer to myself as a creative agency or the idea person of an advertising agency. Those are the people who would sit around drinking soda, hitting hoops in their offices and just shooting the Dick Van Dyke ideas all night long.  16:17 - Intro (Announcement) Absolutely.  16:18 - Lau (Host) Being unafraid to do that, but I would structure it. I would say, okay, we can do this day and night. I know I can do a day and night structure. Say, listen, one week out of the month or three days out of the month are my idea days. Those are days that I'm brain dumping. I'm talking to people, I'm sitting in on groups and I'm coming up with my top three prioritized ideas so that it doesn't become but I have 50. What do I do with the 50?  16:43 No, let me see if I can come up with three and then choose the one that I actually might want to take action on so that I'm structuring my time and I'm structuring through priority as well, and then I'm also giving a deadline too and saying if this doesn't materialize in three months in some real way, I'm going to shelf it until Lauter.  17:03 - Anne (Host) I like that I kind of reLaute it to when people come to me and they say, well, I don't know what genre I should study voiceover, and we'll talk about okay. So what do you do now? Do you have a corporate job? Are you an actor? Do you have a side hustle? However, that is, and a lot of times it'll come down to okay, it'll be easy for you to step into this genre because you've got experience in it. Let's say I'm talking to a teacher. I'm like well, look, you already teach. You already have a concept of what it takes to be a good teacher. So stepping into the e-learning genre might work really well for you. However, you might have another loftier idea that you want to get into animation, right, Well, you can develop the one that you step into a little bit easier so that that will help you to then make some money while you're also pursuing the other goal, and I think that that usually works out really well.  17:49 And I like to equate the whole doing something new and the inspiration to my demo creation process, because for every student right, that end goal of a demo to me is a creative process. It is a creation, it's a song, it is something that is completely unique for each and every student, and for me the process is the same. To get there, there's a lot of work that is involved, but there's a lot of time where, yeah, I sit there and throw the crumpled paper into the basket because there's the creative inspiration that's happening to really just bring it all together and to make it amazing, and so I can really appreciate that part. And each and every time and each and every demo becomes like one of those new things that I'm accomplishing, and I cannot tell you how satisfying that is, because at the end, I'm like yes.  18:39 And I can see it. When I'm getting towards the end of creating the demo for the student, I'm like, oh, oh, oh, it's coming together. It's oh my God, yes, and now I'm going to do that. Oh, yes, oh, now, okay, now I'm seeing it come together and that, to me, is exhiLaurating. It's exhiLaurating.  18:53 It's kind of like the way I attribute starting something new in your business. Right, you get that idea, you're like this could be really cool and now, how am I going to get there? And then you do steps to work to get there, to get there, to get there, you sit there, you shoot a few crumpled pieces of paper and you think about it.  19:08 You sleep on it and then the next morning you get up and you go oh, let me try that Right. And then, when it starts to come together, that's the most amazing thing.  19:17 - Lau (Host) See, that's really the thing, because I find that, with creatives, one of the sticking points for most creatives, no matter how successful they are, is the execution of things. It's getting through what I call the theater days technical rehearsal.  19:31 That's the worst, dirtiest, muddiest, ugliest, disgusting. Like what have we worked on? It looks like yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, and then it just comes together, right. So you have to be able in your business, you can see it right. Yeah, you have to be able to move through that disgusting kind of uncomfortable kind of like, but I worked on this for months. Why does it look this way or feel this way? Right, I was going to give another tip too, annie. I was thinking you know, if you get together with that confidant, with that person, with that creative buddy, make use of that time by doing a structured business improv with them saying I'm going to take 20 minutes with you, 30 minutes, here's my goal. If you want to work on yours, work on yours. But I want to talk out. I want to talk out this idea I have, that I'm looking to execute, and you ask me questions and you shoot, you fire, you do things to make me think about it and give you more real response.  20:25 Cause it takes it off the paper and makes it even more real when you have to speak about it to someone.  20:31 - Anne (Host) Absolutely, absolutely. I mean it's not just on the paper and you looking at it, going okay, and then you don't look at the paper. That's kind of like when you do write things down right and you have goals. I'm a big believer in putting them somewhere where you can keep looking at them. I mean, they can't just stick in your brain.  20:46 If they stick in your brain. It's easy for them to just, oh, I lost it when to go and you can forget about it. But having those in front of you and also talking it out with somebody, like I said, when I come back to meet with my business mentor in another month, she'll be saying to me okay, so what did you do about this? Or how are we moving on? And I'm in the process of that right now. I'm making a shift to another cool part of the business that I want to open and I don't quite know what I'm doing, and it's one of those things where it's going to take me some time. But it's okay, I'm patient with myself because it's going to be kind of a cool path that I've not explored before.  21:20 - Lau (Host) So I'm patient with myself.  21:22 - Anne (Host) So I think you need to be patient with yourself. So many of us are not patient when it comes to oh my God, I want to be a voiceover actor and how come I'm not making money. All of a sudden, it becomes like well, okay. And the same thing with marketing. I'll tell you, I have people that we offer the boss. Bless. That we've talked about multiple times and and I always talked to people about direct marketing right, marketing yourself is one thing. Again, you're putting things out into the universe and again, when are you going to be able to collect on them? So I made an investment. It could be a financial investment, a time investment, whatever that is Well, all of a sudden. Well, it's been three months, why haven't I gotten anything? It's been 12 months, why haven't I gotten anything? And again, one of those things we know, I mean Lauw. We've talked about this. I did an audition two years ago and all of a sudden, I got a contact by the casting director saying hey, we think your voice would be great for this.  22:14 The same thing for your ideas, right your ideas to develop. Just don't give up and be patient. It is one of those things You're marketing. Direct marketing is huge in that convincing an actor to spend a certain amount of money or invest money on a reguLaur basis for marketing is, gosh, pretty much close to impossible, and I know you know that right. Everybody's like I don't have the money, I'm broke, I'm not getting a return on my investment. People are so quick to say that I am not getting a return on my investment. But well, they have to think about.  22:43 - Lau (Host) Are they coming from a full, rich, abundant pLauce? Are they coming from a cheap, overly frugal, not willing to invest pLauce? Because people want to invest in you if they see that you're willing to invest in yourself first. So in essence, you are the proof of concept If you're willing to invest, then you give someone else permission to invest in you, so that abundant versus a fearful, cheap pLauce is really, really important. There's one other thing I was going to say, annie too. Now, maybe this is pushing it a little too far, but I'm that kind of gal If you want to start something new, create something real. Upfront. I'll give you an idea. I used to teach in a very competitive entrepreneurial program in a business college and in the freshman year think about this, 18 years old the project was they take the whole first year, annie. They would create in teams a product that at the end of the year they pitch in a real way at the end of the year right, so it was whatever, it was a shirt a clock, this or that.  23:44 I never forgot, 18, 19 years old. I never forgot because they said we don't care if you make money or not. This is about making money. This is about you learning that when you create a process, there has to be something real and executionary about it, and something that you perform. It's performative. It's not in your head. So at the end of the year, they had to physically manufacture the product Sure absolutely.  24:06 Yeah, and then they'd have to pitch it to see if they could get money, I love that love. I think here's the thought. Here's the thought. We create something, whatever it is, it could be anything. Create something that is a sticker of it that makes it real. So, for instance, let's say you have an idea for a new service in your business, or I have an idea for a business, create a logo, pay money for that logo. It could be 50 bucks, it could be 200, whatever, but it becomes real in a different way.  24:35 - Anne (Host) Absolutely, I love that you said that because, honestly, like when I worked at the academies the Bergen academies, I mean every student had a year long project, literally where they formed a company, they created a product and they actually were all part of here's the marketing department.  24:48 Here's the engineering department and honestly, it gave them a reason to learn engineering. It gave them a reason to learn marketing. It gave them a reason to learn SAP software. It gave them a reason to learn they just had to create the prototype and then they had to, like, market it and sell it, and then they had to present it. And we're talking about ninth graders. Okay, back in the day. That's amazing. Now, if you start them at ninth grade thinking in that way, thinking in that entrepreneurial, corporate way, where they ultimately have to create something and then present it, they end up learning all of the things they need to learn in order to accomplish that goal, and that becomes a really wonderful education for the students as well, as I cannot tell you how many of those students are blossoming like amazing successes today.  25:34 - Lau (Host) Amazing.  25:35 - Anne (Host) They started off early knowing that and doing that, and so I think that's a wonderful idea for you bosses out there to go and create something, make your initial investment, something that doesn't have to take like a billion dolLaurs. No, but something that represents that and is part of your goal to getting there, and I think that that is amazing.  25:54 - Lau (Host) If someone says but Anne, I'm worried. What if I spend $100 on this and I don't like the way it looks or it doesn't come out the way I want? Here's my answer to that. You made an investment in your education, absolutely so. It's not the logo that you created, it's the educational process to know what do you want at the end of the day to represent your company. You don't know until it's actually happening. It can't sit in your head and come to perfection. It's got to be that like, done, done, done every moment in your process. Done. It's not about perfection, it's about done. Now move on. What did I learn?  26:30 - Anne (Host) Right, I'm going to tie that to the logo to even. You know, go further website, start a website. And so many people are like, yeah, but I shouldn't start it yet until I know what my brand is. Okay, yeah, here's a little piece of advice. Your brand evolves right. It's not like your website can't be changed.  26:42 It's not like your logo can't be changed or evolve along with you. As a matter of fact, I just went to the Way Back archive and I saw my very first website where I was Anne Speak. By the way, you guys can look at that, Anne Speak.  26:52 - Intro (Announcement) A&E Speak.  26:54 - Anne (Host) And you'll see that my logo was a microphone, right, with little flourishing things coming out of it, because I love flourishes right. And the thing is is that I've evolved, I mean, and our business has evolved, and so it's okay. Make that investment, the education you're going to get by hiring somebody to create a logo, forcing yourself to think about who am I, what does my logo represent? Or what does my website represent, what are my colors, what is my brand that education is going to be invaluable. Yes, love, what a wonderful conversation Yet again.  27:21 I say this at the end of every podcast. It doesn't seem like.  27:24 - Intro (Announcement) Anne is like a broken record but honestly we have such great conversations.  27:29 - Anne (Host) And you know what I just love, love, love having you as my co-host, and bosses love you too, and we love the bosses. And so, with that in mind, bosses, I want you to take a moment and imagine a world full of passionate and powered, diverse individuals, like we are, but we're giving collectively and intentionally to create the world that we want to see. You can make a difference. Visit 100voiceshoocareorg to learn more, and big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Have an amazing week, guys, and go start something new. We'll see you next week. See you next week. Bye.  28:09 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.  28:31 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Boss Superpower series. I'm your host, anne Gangusa, along with my very awesome, amazing lost co-host, Lauw Laupita. Hello, happy Saturday. Uh oh.  28:57 - Lau (Host) Uh oh, Lauw, where'd you go? Lauw, you're frozen. I know you were frozen. So we lost transmission for a second Transmission lost. It might have been lost Alright.  29:06 - Anne (Host) Yes, it might have been lost. Alright, let's try that one more time. I'm going to stop it and pause for a bit.   

Get ready to redefine your understanding of the voiceover industry as host Anne Ganguzza and special guest co-host Tom Deere, pull back the curtain on the reality of the business and its inherent struggles. We dive deep into the pivotal SAG-AFTRA strike and how it's much more than just a Hollywood issue. It isn't about the glitz and glamour - it's about the hard truth of what it means to be a part of this industry, as a union or non-union voice actor. We'll tackle the misconception that all actors are high earners and shine a spotlight on the majority who are fighting for fair pay and intellectual property protection, especially with the advent of AI technology. 00:01 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:20 - Anne (Host) Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Real Bosses series. I'm your host, Ann Gangusa, here with special guest co-host Mr Tom DHeere. Hello, Tom.  00:31 - Tom (Co-host) Hello Ann, so great to see you.  00:33 - Anne (Host) Yes, wonderful to be chatting with you again and you know, at the time of this recording we just had kind of a major industry event happen the SAG After Strike ended and I thought it would be a good time to talk about external factors that affect our industry and how we can prepare ourselves as bosses to really handle events that happen like that, that are sometimes not even within our control, and what do we do to sustain our businesses.  01:04 - Tom (Co-host) Yes, absolutely Off the top of my head. Keeping up with industry trends is extremely important, which is why, being subscribed to Hollywood Reporter, variety, backstage Magazine publications like that, our friend John Florian's VO Extra, which is sort of an online magazine just being aware of what's going on in the industry, because seeing the highlights on the nightly news can only get you so far, absolutely. Because just a little B-roll and a little this, that and the other thing is see Fran Drescher for five seconds blah and then like going on to the next subject.  01:36 - Anne (Host) Well, yeah, and we should know that Fran Drescher what her role.  01:39 - Tom (Co-host) Yes, as president of SAG After.  01:42 - Anne (Host) Yeah, know who the people are, know how it's impacting the industry and even if you are not a member, that was the whole thing. Even if you were not a member of SAG After and you felt that it didn't affect you, in reality it affected our entire industry as they were vying for fair pay and rights for creatives and actors and voice actors in regards to synthetic voices and AI out there Absolutely and streaming.  02:09 - Tom (Co-host) And streaming. Yeah, everything that SAG After does, all of their collectively bargained agreements and the rate structures and the minimums and all of that stuff, all of that has obviously a major impact on all the SAG After members. But it also has a huge effect on the non-union members, because non-union voice actors most tend to use SAG After CBAs collectively bargained agreements, if not a baseline, a guideline as to, in generally, how genres of voiceover charge, both in the structure of it and then the actual dollars and cents of it, and it will trickle down into the non-union world directly and indirectly. So, yeah, absolutely Everything affects everything in our industry.  02:48 - Anne (Host) And it's something to consider again I say this over and over again that it absolutely affects even though, as you mentioned, if you're not even a member, it affects the industry. It affects the perception of creatives and their value and their worth, and one of the reasons why we are in this as a business is to make money. In order to sustain our businesses and to do what we love for a living, we need to make money and we need to be able to pay the bills. We need to be able to have essential things like healthcare and, even if you're not a member of the union the perception of the market who has services or purchases our voice or hires us and pays us money. It's very important that that perception is one of value and one of worth, so that we can have this as a career, and have it as a sustainable career, so that we can survive.  03:44 - Tom (Co-host) It's interesting because most of the time when you watch the news or you're talking to people in other industries and there's a strike of some kind, it's usually we just want more money and then very things here and there. What was interesting about the SAG After Strike is that it was obviously nationally. Everybody was watching what was going on, because everybody who watches movies and television shows and streaming are impacted by this. This fall lineup and then in the spring we're really going to be feeling it because it's going to be rerun city. But what was interesting about this is that, yes, they wanted like a 7% increase and they wanted certain things, but the fact that they were talking about protection of our livelihood.  04:26 Ai has the potential to take away our intellectual property, our IP, for on camera actors for their image, voice actors for their voice and then in other industries, musicians for their music, artists for their art, writers for their writing those five image, voice, music, art and writing. Ai is causing a lot of disruption, some of it in a good way, but most of it in a not good way, because of lack of understanding of it, lack of regulation and oversight on a federal level, and which was a big part of the SAG After Strike is that AI wasn't really taken into consideration in any of the collectively bargained agreements, so all of that needs to get back in there to protect actors from their IP being stolen. I think a lot of people didn't understand that if you're an extra and you get scanned and you get paid one fee and then they use you your likeness forever in a movie you just destroyed your extra career and so on and so on and so forth.  05:26 So what was going on with AI in many ways is an existential threat to voice actors, so that's a big part of what this wasn't just about. Oh, those actors, they just want more money to be, to be movie stars. No, this was. If we don't do something about this, we won't be able to act anymore.  05:40 - Anne (Host) Well, yeah, and it brought awareness, I think, to the general public about our careers and the perception that, oh, they're just celebrities and more money and they're greedy. In reality, what was the percentage of people that make enough money, that are the high earners? There are only like 1% of actors in the union, and so the rest of them, the rest of us, the struggling actors, the starving artists, so to speak this is something that I think really was a good thing, so that we could have artists still pursuing this career feeling like, oh, I can possibly make it, I can possibly sustain this as a career, and so I think that's a good thing. Otherwise, you just end up with maybe just the high paid, high earning actors.  06:27 And what happens to the creative process? What happens to movies, what happens to voice, what happens to music, what happens to the writing, when you just don't have the wide I would say broad spectrum of people vying to do this because they're passionate and they love it and they're good at it, but yet they need to be able to make a living at it. So, I think, bringing public awareness to the craft, public awareness of just how much that creatives are dependent upon, especially I go back to the pandemic. When? What do we do during the pandemic?  07:02 We watch streaming, we watched movies, we listen to music and all of that was so important to help keep our I guess I want to say our- spirit and our sanity and our mental health that really was something that was crucial, I think, and of course, it goes back to support the arts, support the arts and our educational institutions, and really I think that this was just another wonderful example of bringing public awareness to what it is that we do and appreciation to it, yeah, I have a story with that in mind.  07:34 - Tom (Co-host) Just a week or two ago I live here in Midtown Manhattan. I went around the corner to the grocery store and I see some SAG Afterhab members striking and I noticed that the strike captain was an old friend of mine I've been friends with her for 30 years and actors hey, how are you doing? And we were talking and she explained to me that the reason why she's been able to keep her SAG After Health and pension benefits for the past few years is because of extra work. Not because starring or a supporting role or some Netflix thing, it was just being a New York working actor and just doing extra work. And she also does theater and other things. But like I don't think a lot of people realize that, just that relatively innocuous, almost unseen extra work pays her medical bills and goes towards her retirement. Because that's what the strike was about. It wasn't about the big movie stars. They're fine.  08:23 I mean protecting their intellectual property from predatory AI practices is obviously a very big deal, and we're seeing deep fakes and all that stuff all the time and video game actors getting their voices harvested. But yeah, this is a blue collar strike if that makes sense Not unlike the auto worker strike that has been recently. I think it's mostly over now, but yeah, it's not unlike that. It wasn't about the movie stars, yeah.  08:44 - Anne (Host) And during the strike, because it was a it was a fairly lengthy strike I know that there was lots of speculation. You know Hollywood is dead, that kind of stuff or is that going to happen? And in reality, I mean understanding the people that hire us and pay us for our services and understanding like what it is that we deserve as a contributing asset to their products, to large streaming companies. Of course, without movies and actors and actresses, the streaming companies won't have anything to stream. And so I think also it brought to life a little more of an understanding of corporate mentality and how it can be, and it was kind of a wake up call, I think, to a lot of voice actors understanding that there is a beast out there that ultimately, when you are contributing to a product with your voice or with your likeness or with your music or whatever that is, that there is a fair way to be compensated for that and that it should be compensated. And I think that that was a major win for the union and for us as an industry.  09:50 - Tom (Co-host) Absolutely. Sometimes it's hard to understand, to reconcile the fact that we're trying to be expressive artists but at the same time, we have volunteered to be commoditized. You know what I mean. You're commoditized for how you look, you're commoditized for how you sound, and so there's a literal contract and a social contract which is okay, based on how you sound, we will give you this money. We understand that.  10:11 Your training, your experience, your talent, all of those things the aggregate of that is you being able to do this Metro PCS commercial or be in this video game or narrate this audio book. So it's hard to sometimes separate the art from the commerce part of it. I like talking for money, but I'm an artist too and my AI voice is part of the commoditization. Commerce part over here. And then I go over here and I'm narrating this audio book or I'm being Inspector Gadget or I'm doing that sort of thing. It's complicated. It's very, very complicated. I think that the SAG After Strike brought to the surface exactly how complicated our industry is, and it's not just a matter of pretty face movie money or pretty voice radio spot money.  10:56 There's just a lot more to it, and our IP is what we are.  11:01 - Anne (Host) Exactly, that is who we are.  11:02 - Tom (Co-host) I mean, that is who we are and what we are.  11:04 - Anne (Host) Yeah, our product is our voice and who we are, and that really is different from a product. Here's my physical product and so protecting our personal product, I think, becomes paramount. In doing that Now, when the strike was happening, there was, I would say, a definite impact to the market, to the voice over market in certain genres, specifically broadcast, and I think there was a lot of people who originally purchased likeness, voice music that were really like, ooh, we're going to step back to see what happens, to see how this plays out. So, tom, what are your recommendations for, let's say, anybody in the creative industry when these things happen? Because I'm not going to say that every strike is different, but there are things that happen in industries that we really don't have a lot of control over, for example, the synthetic voice. Right, we don't have control over technology that's coming.  12:00 So, what do you suggest to voice actors and creatives when something impacts the industry, like this how to survive and how to maintain? What sort of tips or tricks do you have to encourage their business to continue growing? Or smart strategies to maybe pick alternate paths?  12:19 - Tom (Co-host) Well, in addition to my suggestion that I said earlier about reading the trades and understanding what's going on and I was witnessing this directly throughout the strike on social media there was a lot of hysteria, there was a lot of fear, there was a lot of judgment on various sizes, and you could see who didn't really understand what was going on, both union and non-union voice actors.  12:41 Why it was happening and then they were just putting everybody in a bucket and labeling that bucket, so it definitely had a cultural and psychics not the right word but a psychological impact. So one of my biggest tips is yes, the AI and other things and what the AMPTP were doing and their offers was posing, in various ways, existential threats to our industry. However, you need to keep your eyes open, you need to remain objective, you need to collect facts and you need to make thoughtful, informed decisions about what to do to move your business forward.  13:20 - Anne (Host) Yes, amen, amen. That was just wonderful advice. Yes, absolutely Education. Education is so, so important. I say it Gosh. I feel like I say it almost every podcast Like what do we do? How do we handle things? Educate yourself, educate yourself.  13:35 - Tom (Co-host) And be objective whilst educating yourself. Don't prejudge the information that you're getting. Don't bias yourself while you're doing your research by listening to the loudest jerk in the Facebook group you know, or listening to your own FOMO imposter syndrome whatever's going on in your head that could get in your way.  13:54 - Anne (Host) It's always sensible to have a plan B. We've spoken about this briefly before, but, like having multiple income paths, and passive income paths too. I think I'm a big fan of passive income.  14:06 I love having passive income and something that can help sustain you while maybe things are slow in your business and the market is reacting Again. We are slaves to the market in reality. If people don't value our product, they are not going to purchase our products. So therefore, we need to keep our eyes on the market and find out how we can provide a valuable product.  14:28 - Tom (Co-host) Yeah, developing voiceover adjacent skills, I think, is a really good way to do it. A lot of people develop their audio engineering skills because to be an effective voice actor, especially in the 21st century, you need to be competent when it comes to recording, editing and delivering audio files. Then there's other things that people do virtual assistants, proofreaders, translators if you're a bilingual voice talent virtual assistants, social media managers.  14:56 So I mean what I just named five or six or seven things. So like, if you're early in your voiceover journey and you want to do this for the long run but you still need to sustain yourself and you maybe don't want to or can't, for whatever reason, have that full-time job, developing skills that will ultimately help you and complement and enhance your voiceover career and make money at at the same time can be a really great way to go.  15:18 - Anne (Host) And I always recommend that. I think we all bring our real world experience to the voiceover career. Like, I mean, I had a previous experience in teaching and in engineering and so those things and working in the healthcare industry, so those things I could bring to my voiceover career. But I could also consult, I could also continue to do those things, and I don't think there's anything shameful in pursuing multiple paths for generating income, especially when this is such an entrepreneurial endeavor. I mean, it is one of the things that most people, if they come from the corporate world, they're just used to I'm going to work and I'm going to get paid. Well, this is a completely different flip the switch kind of thing where, oh gosh, where's my next job coming from? That's where, I think, a lot of people who are not necessarily prepared or have never experienced being an entrepreneur before or being a business owner before this is new to them.  16:14 So you need to really prepare yourself as much as you possibly can for fluctuations in the market.  16:20 - Tom (Co-host) One thing I teach my students is that your last gig isn't necessarily your lowest paying gig and your next gig isn't necessarily your highest paying gig, because people think it's this like vertical, incrementally thing that next big gig will be bigger, bigger, more money, bigger, bigger, more money, and that is not remotely true.  16:39 - Anne (Host) And I will ultimately make six figures. You know that I feel like they have climbed. I've made six figures. Now I'm going to make six figures for the rest of my career. That doesn't always happen. That does not always happen Again. Fluctuations in the market. There's a lot of factors in play. What are you investing in? What money is going out versus what money is coming in?  16:56 - Tom (Co-host) Also, is your voice trending, yeah?  16:58 - Anne (Host) Yeah, absolutely.  16:59 - Tom (Co-host) Oh gosh, yeah, I would like to think you're getting better and better at your craft, but if your voice becomes less and less demand I mean all the guys that sound like this when, 25 years ago, when I decided I wanted to be a voice actor and I was like hi, I want to be a voice actor. You know what I mean and you know all these basic bearded guys with Hawaiian shirts and you know what I mean.  17:19 And now I mean is there still a demand for that kind of voice actor? Yes, exponentially less of a demand for that type of voice actor. But if you didn't develop your abilities as a storyteller? And develop your genre awareness and the ability to do different things than just this one announcer read, then your income will go down.  17:38 - Anne (Host) I talked about this with Law in a previous episode about casting. When it comes down to demographics, right the company's product that they want to reach a particular demographic. So it may not be that you didn't perform or you didn't nail that audition. It just might be that you're in the wrong demographic for the effective sale. I mean, if they're targeting a younger audience and you have a more mature voice, that may not make sense and vice versa. So again, it really it has to do with understanding the market and understanding where your product fits in that market. I cannot stress that enough. I mean that just to me is like you must think of that.  18:17 - Tom (Co-host) And your product will change.  18:18 - Anne (Host) Yes, exactly. And so if you have, let's say, a mature voice right, understand where you can fit in the industry so that you can get in front of people who are going to purchase that sound, that more mature voice, versus, let's say, I have a really young, millennial voice, or I have maybe a voice that is very trending with, let's say, non-binary and other types of genres that people are looking to fill in those voids. So, and don't be put off or set back or feel like, oh my goodness, I don't know if I'm going to be successful in this industry. You just have to find your niche.  18:55 - Tom (Co-host) Yes, let the industry tell you. Listen to the industry. People come in oh, I want to do this, I want to sound like that. Sometimes that works, but usually it's watch your auditions. If you're on pay to plays, who's liking your auditions? Why are they liking your auditions? What are the keywords in those casting notices that you keep seeing over and over again? I did that exercise not too long ago and, for example, I found that my number one online casting site buzzword for me was upbeat.  19:21 I'm like oh because I kept getting booking and getting liking those it's like, oh okay, well then that's something I can put over here. But then I've also found out recently Ryan Reynolds is a keyword.  19:30 - Anne (Host) Oh yeah, I totally can hear that.  19:32 - Tom (Co-host) Yeah, that I've been getting. I literally just booked a commercial just last week because they wanted a Ryan Reynolds sound?  19:39 - Anne (Host) Absolutely, yeah, it's always good to know who your doppelganger is and who your sound of like is, and putting that as part of your marketing campaign can really help. Absolutely, seo keyword. Any other tips on what you can do when, let's say, the market is not necessarily looking for your particular product outside? Of education what else?  20:00 - Tom (Co-host) I was gonna say the easy one is get coaching. Talk to you, fabulous voiceover coach, but also talk to casting directors, talk to a Mary Lynn Wissner or someone else and say, okay, my sound seems to be out. Can you help me find a voice within my range and demographics that I can do and invest in some education, some training to kind of adapt, because your money voice isn't always gonna be your money voice? I know mine's definitely changed over the past few years. My Tom Plus has now gotten into more of this Ryan Reynolds, more sassy conversational kind of thing, and once I stopped fighting against that I started booking a lot more. Especially, I've been booking more commercial work.  20:42 Yes because I'm bringing a lot more just plain old Tom to it.  20:45 - Anne (Host) Well, isn't that funny Because?  20:47 as we progress and as my career advanced as well, becoming more of myself and understanding who I am and understanding my product and how I can bring more of who I am to the read always has gotten me more work. I mean it just progressively has gotten more work. So and again I say this on a lot of podcasts but it is so important more than ever now to be that actor, to bring your own unique point of view to the read, because that's what's gonna get you noticed and that's what's gonna get you hired.  21:16 - Tom (Co-host) As a demo producer, how many times have you worked with a student and you're talking before the demo record and they're just da-da-da, da-da-da-da, and you're like, okay, take one, and they go blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah like how many times does that happen?  21:28 - Anne (Host) Oh, yeah, a lot of times, a lot of times, and it doesn't take much to put you out of the moment, in the acting moment, and go into a read. It really doesn't, and sometimes it just takes a note or a loss of focus for like one second and it brings you right out of the read. So if you are not consistently in that scene, acting, reacting, doing that, you can just lose the read, which is why in long format, like narration stuff that I specialize in, a lot of corporate and e-learning to just lose your focus for even just a second can take you right out of that, and that's noticeable to the ear, it's noticeable to casting directors, but it's also noticeable to the people that are listening and the intended audience, which is something that you just don't want. So if the market is slow or you're wondering, what can I do?  22:14 Yeah, education and coaching. I think, and again, I say that as an educator, I say that as a coach, but not just because I'm a coach. I mean, really, what else is there when you want to refine and upgrade and everybody's always trying to improve their products, right? Any company is trying to create a better product and that is not just a one step one and done process. I mean, that is something that if you're a company that wants to remain competitive and have competitive products, then you will continually evolve and improve that product.  22:44 - Tom (Co-host) Yes, marketing is also the thing to do when things are slow, always, always, always. The more you can demonstrate your humanity when it's slow, just to let people know that you're still here, you're still working in the voiceover realms and, even though you may not have a big gig to talk about, always be demonstrating your value and your progress.  23:05 - Anne (Host) I attended this conference.  23:07 - Tom (Co-host) I just got out of a session with this coach. I had such a wonderful time. I learned so much. Those are the things that are part of your longterm investment in your social media strategy, your online presence, your search engine optimization, and for people to know that, no matter what's going on, you are consistently there, you are consistently positive, you are consistently learning and you are consistently growing, and that helps keep you top of mind.  23:29 - Anne (Host) Absolutely top of mind is important. Well, what a great discussion, Tom. I feel like we could talk about this all day.  23:35 - Tom (Co-host) We could.  23:35 - Anne (Host) But I want to keep this top of mind because I think it's important. Bosses, here is your chance to use your voice, not only to get hired, but to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. You can visit 100voiceshoocareorg to commit and big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. I love IPDTL. Ipdtl gives me connections with wonderful bosses like Tom Deere here and many, many other clients. You can find out more at ipdtocom. Bosses, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.  24:10 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, ann Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.