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Jason and Eric
Two lifelong friends document and share their personal journey as they seek to become financially independent and retire early (FIRE). One achieves his FIRE goal in 2020 during a global pandemic, inspiring the other to play catch-up. Whether you are new to the FIRE movement, already on your FIRE journey, or have retired early, there’s something here for you. Go beyond the numbers and get the personal stories as experienced by Eric and Jason.
Early Retirement + Group Travel: What Works, What Doesn’t
Are group tours the ultimate hassle-free way to travel, or do they come with unexpected challenges? In this episode, Eric talks with Jason about his first experiences with group travel after a recent trip to Peru. They explore the pros, cons, and key lessons Jason learned—offering insights to help you plan your own adventure, whether you’re retired or just looking for your next great trip.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/tours
59:1717/11/2024
Does Retirement = Happiness?
How would you feel if you worked hard to retire early and later realized you hated being retired? Sadly, online forums make it clear that a number of people who achieve FIRE are disappointed, bored, or otherwise unhappy in retirement. In this episode, Eric and Jason discuss their feelings on this topic. Join us to hear Jason's thoughts in his fifth year of early retirement, and Eric's observations after a recent vacation with his family.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/happiness
46:4627/10/2024
Empty Nest, New Challenges: What’s Next After Early Retirement?
In this episode Eric and Jason share their experiences as new empty nesters and reflect on the emotional and identity shifts that come with this major life change, especially after retiring early. They dive into how life changes when the kids are gone and work is no longer a primary focus. From adjusting to the quiet at home to rethinking purpose and identity, they discuss the highs and lows of this new phase. Join them as they explore what comes next in this post-parenting, post-career chapter of life.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/identity
42:0322/09/2024
Financial Independence at 50 (Finally!)
After years of planning, Eric and Laura have finally reached their FI number at 50! They discovered the FIRE movement 5 years ago and set their sights on achieving financial independence by 2024. Now, with both of their boys off to college, a paid-off home, and a 80/15/5 split between equities, fixed income and cash, they’ve officially hit their financial independence (FI) goal and plan to retire early.
In this episode, they discuss the challenges of moving goalposts, their decision to keep running Eric's business, 30X40 Design Workshop (on their own terms), and their plans for the future. Laura will be leaving her job as a research scientist in January 2025 to operate 30X40 remotely, with a goal of maintaining a flexible, time-limited schedule. They also cover practical topics like their pretax/taxable split, health insurance considerations, and their withdrawal strategy. Learn what reaching FI looks like for them, the steps they’re taking next, and what their plans are moving forward!
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/GFY
43:0626/08/2024
He Earned a Million Dollars Trading This Option Strategy
How would you like to earn $80,000 a year trading options against your existing portfolio? That's exactly what our guest, Karsten "Big ERN" Jeske, has achieved. In today's episode, Jason talks with Karsten about his simple SPX options trading strategy. Be sure to see the show notes linked below for definitions, associated blog posts, and more.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/options
51:5618/08/2024
Our 80/20 Rules for Early Retirement: How We Did It
If you are not aggressive, you are not going to make money, and if you are not defensive, you are not going to keep money (Ray Dalio). In this episode, Eric and Jason talk about their personal "80/20 Rules" for retiring early. That is, the decisions they made along the journey that served as key pivot points towards ensuring their achievement of financial independence.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/roads
42:4004/08/2024
Checking In: Year One of Early Retirement
A year later, Jason and Eric check in with their friend Erik, who retired early at 49 while his wife continues to work. In this follow-up episode, we find out how things are going and what important lessons he learned during his first year of early retirement.
Show notes and our earlier chat with Erik - https://twosidesoffi.com/erik
46:3021/07/2024
Four Years Later: What I Wish I Knew Before Retiring Early
Four years after retiring early at 47, Jason reflects on the key lessons he wishes he knew beforehand. He discusses his portfolio, spending habits, healthcare, mental health, relationships, and more.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/fouryears
43:1030/06/2024
Retired Early? Here’s How to Pay Yourself
How do you plan to set up your retirement paycheck to avoid running out of money? In this episode, Jason talks with Eric about how he uses a free online tool to manage his finances in early retirement. Topics covered include his variable withdrawal strategy, managing cash, portfolio rebalancing, and much more.
FREE SWR tool and show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/toolbox
39:3122/05/2024
When is Enough, Enough? Working After Financial Independence
Why would anyone continue to work for money once they've achieved financial independence? In this episode, Eric and Jason discuss this common practice, including why Jason and Lorri currently have part-time jobs post-FI. Topics covered include de-risking retirement, charitable giving, skill-building, and more.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/enough
45:0305/05/2024
Unexpected Reactions to My Early Retirement
Contempt, concern, surprise, envy, admiration, and support; just a few of the reactions Laura received when she announced she was retiring early, closing her biomedical research laboratory, and beginning a new phase of life beyond work. Some reactions were expected and some surprised her. In this episode, Eric and Laura unpack these interactions and chart their next steps as they prepare to leave work and step into early retirement.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/unexpected
37:4921/04/2024
Retiring Early Made This Possible
What essential lessons did Jason learn from the most impactful travel he's done to date? In this episode, Eric and Jason catch up on a number of recent changes in their lives. Topics discussed include Eric and Laura's recent big announcement, Jason's Camino experience, the benefits and challenges of pre- and post-FI travel, and much more.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/catchingup
43:5214/04/2024
One Step Closer to FI/RE - Preparing to Give Notice
Eric and Laura discuss their preparations as they near their FI number and Laura prepares to notify her employer that she's leaving. Recorded in the fall of 2023, this behind-the-scenes discussion was prepared for release on the week that Laura submits her resignation letter (which she did on Thursday!) They discuss their hesitations, changes of heart, and ready themselves for what's ahead.
Show notes + resources: https://twosidesoffi.com/one-step-closer-to-fi
38:5517/03/2024
Retired Early to USVIs, Florida, and Spain: How They Did It
Have you considered living a life outside of your home country in retirement? Jeff went from broke at 38 to financially independent at 45 with six rental properties supporting them. He and his wife relocated to St Thomas, USVI for a few years, bought a rental property in Puerto Rico and now they’re preparing to relocate to Spain. So, if you’ve considered what a life outside the mainland US might look like, I think you’ll find his story interesting.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/retirementality
54:1126/02/2024
My Healthcare Costs in Early Retirement (Year 3)
What's the true cost of healthcare in early retirement and can it break your budget? In this episode, Jason shares his experiences with Eric after three years on an ACA health insurance plan. Topics discussed include selecting and evaluating plans, how to estimate your income, premium tax credits, and why 2023 was Jason's worst year for healthcare expenses to date.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/ouch
34:3304/02/2024
FI-nancial Checkup: New Year Routines + Goals for 2024
What financial lessons did we learn last year and what will we do differently in 2024? In today's episode, Eric and Jason discuss their end of year review processes. Topics include investing goals, their net worth reviews, lessons learned, and much more.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/newyear
42:1521/01/2024
Financially Independent, Recreationally Employed (FIRE)
Have you truly retired if you continue to do any work for money? In this episode, Eric and Jason talk about their own FIRE goals and how they've changed over time. Topics discussed include their respective journeys, why Jason has a part-time job after retiring, the internet retirement police, and much more.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/busted
43:0407/01/2024
Did We Budget Enough for Travel in Early Retirement?
What happens if all the travel you want to do after retiring would break the budget? In this episode, Eric and Jason talk about the importance of travel to their early retirement plans. Topics discussed include financial concerns, disagreeing with your spouse, the value of planning by age range, and much more.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/travel
38:2703/12/2023
Retired Early and Feeling Lost. What’s Next?
How does it feel when you haven't yet found your purpose after retiring early? In this episode, Jason talks with Eric about his three year journey exploring his post-FIRE purpose. In this episode, they discuss the phases of retirement, seeking out meaningful projects, lessons learned along the way, and much more.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/purpose
42:1219/11/2023
The Health Risks of Early Retirement
If you're not giving mental and physical health the same level of attention as your financial health, you're playing with fire. In this episode, Jason talks with Eric about what steps he's taking to prioritize his own wellness in early retirement, including a frank conversation about mental health. Here they discuss steps to promote wellness, the distinct challenges of retirement, and much more. Don't miss the show notes as they include a link to Jason's latest blog post on the topic of mental health.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/wellness
38:3605/11/2023
One More Year: My Decision to Postpone Early Retirement
Can you imagine changing your mind about retiring early just as the finish line comes into view? What factors could cause someone to consider working one more year? In this episode, Eric talks with Jason about the idea to delay his retirement. Topics covered include why he's considering it, getting agreement with your spouse, how others reacted to the idea, and much more.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/OMY
39:1322/10/2023
Will This Get Us Kicked Out of the FIRE Movement?
Would you spend $1000 on dinner for a special occasion - or more? Eric and Jason recently enjoyed a milestone birthday celebration with their spouses + friends at a world famous restaurant. The total cost may shock you. In this episode, they talk about the experience, spending decisions pre- vs, post-financial independence, and whether it was actually worth it.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/frenchlaundry
45:0008/10/2023
He Retired Early, She Didn’t: A Coast FI Case Study
How would your spouse feel if you retired early while they kept working? In this episode, Eric + Jason talk with our friend Erik, who recently left the workplace while his wife continues to work. How does this arrangement work for them, and why is a coastFIRE path their choice? Topics discussed include being thrown into retirement, finding purpose, talking about FIRE, and much more.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/erik
47:2624/09/2023
Can You Reach FI Faster? Advice From Someone Who Did.
Can you shorten the time to achieve financial independence (FI)? In this episode, Eric talks with Jason about his journey to FI and the steps he took to reach FI faster and retire before 50. Topics discussed include risks taken + sacrifices made, how Eric's path differed, why early retirement is so attractive, and much more.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/fasterFI
42:0420/08/2023
Halfway to FI? Surviving the Boring Middle
How can you accelerate the boring middle on the path to reaching your financial independence goals? Online FIRE communities are full of posts talking about the challenges of "the messy middle" and, "the long boring middle." Eric and Jason discuss the topic from their pre- and post-FI viewpoints, sharing their own experiences.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/messymiddle
44:2723/07/2023
Ask an Early Retiree Anything! Live Q&A with Jason from Two Sides of FI
Are you on the FIRE path or interested in learning more about early retirement? Three years ago I retired from my career at age 47 after reaching financial independence the prior year. This video is from a livestream where community members had the opportunity to ask me questions about what my experience has been like. Thanks to all who joined! Don't miss the extensive show notes, which list all the episodes and resources discussed in the episode:
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/AMA
01:27:0803/07/2023
FI-ght Club: Friction Between Friends Pre and Post-FI
Questioning their roles, priorities, and the uncertain future of Two Sides of FI, Jason and Eric unveil hidden tensions arising from the pursuit and realization of financial independence. Will they find common ground and keep the project alive?
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/fightclub
33:2621/05/2023
Our Net Worth Is Up! Sharing Our Financial Review Process
Do you have a process for regular financial reviews? If not, you aren't alone - many people are unsure about how to calculate their net worth and keep their personal finances on track. In this episode, Eric and Jason share their simple pre- and post-FI review processes for net worth tracking, portfolio review, setting savings and budget goals, and more.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/networth
35:3107/05/2023
Secure Your Retirement with this Variable Withdrawal Strategy
Do you like the idea of a portfolio withdrawal strategy that can't run out of money? This walkthrough video is the third part in our Safe Withdrawal Rate (SWR) series, and teaches you how to model a variable withdrawal strategy based on the CAPE ratio. Using this powerful and FREE tool created by Karsten Jeske, you can design a personalized plan that works with your own financial situation. Be sure to see the show notes below to get your free copy, to see the two prior episodes, and for all the links we discuss in the video.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/toolbox
16:4323/04/2023
Retiring With $2M: Here’s How We’d Spend It
Love it or hate it, budgeting is an essential part of financial success. In this episode, Eric and Jason share their own financial details using a simple, model budget and offer tips for making budgeting a less daunting task. See the link below for the show notes, which includes the full details of our budgets.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/fire-budget
46:5009/04/2023
Am I Failing at Early Retirement?
Has your shrinking retirement portfolio left you considering part-time work to ease your anxiety? Inspired by a blog post from Go Curry Cracker, we discuss BaristaFIRE, time freedom, what it means to be "unemployable", and what work we might consider post-retirement. Be sure to see the links below for the show notes and to the blog post referenced in the video.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/failing
GCC post: https://www.gocurrycracker.com/failing-at-early-retirement/
46:3726/03/2023
Having Trouble Trusting the Math in Early Retirement?
How much money can you safely spend in retirement? In part two of this series on safe withdrawal rates, we discuss the #1 tool we've found to help you answer that question. Topics covered include the SWR Toolbox, our thoughts on Social Security, the challenges of spending in retirement, and how to get comfortable with increasing your withdrawal rate. Be sure to see the links below for the show notes and to Part 1 which walks through this FREE retirement tool.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/toolbox
45:2712/03/2023
Never Run Out of Money in Retirement - Use This Free FIRE Calculator!
Do you want to avoid the biggest retirement risk? This simple to use tool will let you model your safe withdrawal rate and help ensure you don't run out of money. In this walkthrough video, we teach you how to use this powerful, flexible, and FREE tool created by Karsten Jeske. Using the SWR Toolbox, you can ensure that you have a personalized plan that works with your own financial situation.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/toolbox
25:2826/02/2023
What’s Wrong with This Popular Retirement Strategy?
Do you worry about running out of money in retirement? How do you draw down your assets without tanking your portfolio? Eric + Jason talk with FIRE bloggers Karsten Jeske and Fritz Gilbert about the bucket strategy. Is it a reasonable withdrawal plan or nothing more than a gimmick? They discuss alternative approaches, how to generate a retirement paycheck, and the role of cash. Whether you're interested in FIRE or on a traditional retirement path, you can't afford to miss this episode!
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/bucketstrategy
01:09:0012/02/2023
My Next Phase of Early Retirement Won’t Include This…
Year two in early retirement was very different for Jason than year one. It's common that the honeymoon stage of retirement is followed by disappointment and a search for meaning. In this episode, Jason and Eric discuss a recent project Jason abandoned and what stage of retirement they think he's in. You'll hear his approach to guarding his free time, what Eric fears most about retiring early, and more. Check out the link below for the show notes, including all the content referenced in this video.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/noblog
Jason's blog archive: https://www.thenextphaseisnow.com/
34:5129/01/2023
My FIRE Budget Didn’t Account for This
Are you worried about neglecting to budget for key expenses in early retirement? Even if you put good effort into creating your FIRE budget, it's easy to miss some very important items. In this episode, Jason and Eric discuss these commonly forgotten or underestimated expenses, including healthcare costs, taxes, dealing with inflation, and more. Check out the link below for the show notes, including all the content referenced in this episode.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/iforgot
45:4015/01/2023
Finding My Way in Early Retirement: A 30 Month Check-In
What is early retirement really like? In this episode, Eric checks in with Jason two and a half years after he left his career behind. They discuss his recent financial moves, the impact of inflation, how Jason spends his time, and what's truly important to him. Check out the link below for the show notes, including all the content we referenced in this episode.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/30months
44:4804/01/2023
Our Most Impactful Tools and Purchases Under $250 (Part 2)
How big of an impact can a single purchase under $250 make on your life? In part two of this series, Eric and Jason talk about some of the best things they've bought in recent years. Topics discussed include travel, outdoor gear, concert tips, kitchen aids, and more. Be sure to see the link below for the show notes, which includes info on all the items we discussed in the epispode, as well as those on our under $50 list from part one.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/under50
30:5921/12/2022
Budget-Friendly Finds: Our Favorite Tools and Hacks Under $50 (Part 1)
Can low cost items - or even free things - truly impact your quality of life positively? In this episode, Eric and Jason talk about some of their favorite purchases under $50, as well as some tools and life hacks that have done just that. Topics discussed in part one of this series include apps, books, games, outdoors essentials, and organizational tools. Be sure to see the link below for the show notes, which includes info on all the items we discussed in the episode.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/under50
35:1918/12/2022
Tax Strategies on FIRE: Financial Independence / Retire Early
Do you worry about taxes and how they impact your financial goals? Whether you're on a FIRE path or retiring traditionally, there are many critical tax topics to consider. In this episode, Jason talks with financial planner and CPA Sean Mullaney, creator of The FI Tax Guy blog. We talk about common tax misunderstandings, the power of solo 401(k) accounts, Roth conversions, and tax loss harvesting. Check out the link below for the show notes including all the content we mentioned in the episode.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/fitaxguy
Sean's book: "Solo 401(k): The Solopreneur's Retirement Account" - https://amzn.to/3B4bqet
44:3704/12/2022
You Asked, We Answered. FIRE Q&A
Answering your financial independence, retire early (FIRE) questions, including the one we're asked most often. This special Ask Us Anything format commemorates the 50th episode of Two Sides of FI. THANK YOU to all who submitted questions and for your continued support of the show!
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/ep50
01:06:4320/11/2022
My Plan to Retire Early is ON HOLD
The bear market has forced many to revise their FI goals and retirement plans. In this episode, Eric talks with Jason about pushing back his FI date, options he's considering, whether BaristaFIRE could be the answer, the possibility of redefining work, and advice for others in a similar position. See the link below for the show notes.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/delayed
43:0106/11/2022
Reacting to YOUR Ideas for Holding Cash
Are you worried about holding cash in this high inflation environment? In a recent video, we talked about the role of cash pre- and post-retirement. In this episode, Eric + Jason review and react to YOUR ideas that you shared with us. Topics covered include bond ladders, high yield savings, real estate, gold and other cash alternatives, and emergency funds. Check out the link below for the show notes, including all the content referenced in this episode.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/cash
45:1923/10/2022
Is This a Part of Your FIRE Plan?
Chasing short term market conditions adds a lot of risk to reaching your long term investing goals. An investment policy statement (IPS) can help ensure you stick to your strategy, and avoid market timing and other investing pitfalls. In this episode, Eric talks with Jason about his IPS, and why he finds it such a useful tool. Topics covered include defining portfolio makeup + objectives, the mechanics of cash generation + rebalancing, and why you might consider implementing an IPS yourself. See the link below for the show notes, where we link to Jason's IPS and other content we referenced in the episode.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/ips
43:1309/10/2022
Will You Run Out of Money or Time? FI Advice From a Hospice Doctor
What can conversations with the dying teach us about the secret to financial independence? In this episode, Eric + Jason are joined by Jordan "Doc G" Grumet, a hospice doctor, podcaster, blogger, and author. Topics discussed include the mirage of wealth, living meaningfully, and Jordan's experiences eight years post-FI. Irrespective of your own retirement journey, you won't want to miss our conversation. See below for links to Doc G's book as well as the show notes.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/DocG
Doc G's book: "Taking Stock: A Hospice Doctor's Advice on Financial Independence, Building Wealth, and Living a Regret-Free Life": https://amzn.to/3xKvukv
46:4825/09/2022
FIRE and Holding Cash - What We’re Doing
How much cash in your portfolio is enough - or too much? In this episode, Eric + Jason discuss the idea of holding cash allocations pre- and post-retirement. Topics covered include emergency funds, the temptation to invest in a down market, bonds, and building cash reserves. Join us as we discuss this essential retirement topic. Check out the link below for the show notes, including all the content referenced in this episode.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/cash
49:4411/09/2022
Do I Wish I’d Worked One More Year?
With all of the volatility in the market, should you delay retirement by a year? A viewer asked Jason if he would feel more secure had he worked another year or two before retiring early. In today's episode, Eric + Jason discuss that question and the merits of considering "one more year". Join us as we discuss this idea and the reasons you might consider that option, what Jason would have missed out on if he had worked longer, and the value he found in retiring when he did. Check out the link below for the show notes, including all the content referenced in this episode.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/onemoreyear
Submit a question: https://twosidesoffi.com/speakpipe
25:3828/08/2022
How I Plan to Retire Early on a $50K Salary
Can you retire early without a high-paying tech industry salary? In this episode, we talk with Stephen about how he plans to do just that. At 30 years old, he's earning $50k as a higher education administrator, yet he plans to retire with at least a million dollars by his early 50s. How will he do that? Join us as we discuss his plans, the role of financial discipline, why he doesn't feel he's overly frugal, and the challenges of his FIRE path.
**Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/50k
35:2614/08/2022
Karsten Spoke, We Listened. Here’s What We Learned.
We're making changes. Here's what we learned and how our FIRE strategies are changing after talking to "Big ERN" Karsten Jeske, an economist, CFA, and safe withdrawal rate expert. In this episode, we review our take-homes from that conversation, and react to comments and feedback we received about the episode. If you missed the original episode, be sure to listen to Episode 40 first.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/swr
38:5631/07/2022
Don’t Let the Cost of Healthcare Break Your Early Retirement Plan
Calculating the cost of health insurance is a complicated and stressful exercise when you're retiring early. Hear Jason's experience with his first full year using the California ACA Exchange and learn how Eric arrived at his budget of $350K, his worst case scenario. We discuss how to choose a plan, ACA subsidies, differences by state, and other alternative options. If you missed our earlier healthcare episode, be sure to see the link below.
Show notes: https://twosidesoffi.com/aca
47:1516/07/2022