Leigh Ann Rodgers is the CEO and Founder of Better Teams, and is driven to positively impact corporate culture and cultivate happy, high-performing teams. She is also the host of Leading Better Teams podcast. In this episode, Leigh Ann shares thoughts on accountability, bonding/connection, and why virtual teams require extra work to build connections. Listen in for how to build strong virtual connections!     Key Takeaways [1:58] Leigh Ann volunteers three days a week at a local animal sanctuary for farm animals. There are pigs, horses, donkeys, goats, and cats. It’s a beautiful little farm tucked into a forest. Leigh Ann feeds them and puts the hay out. It’s a peaceful place. Leigh Ann does the afternoon shift. The early morning shift scoops the poop, so Leigh Ann is happy to go in the afternoon. [4:06] If members of a team are not being accountable to each other, the first thing to find out is why they are not. Leigh Ann says most of the time there is fear. It’s a risky thing to hold a peer accountable. It may lead to them not liking you, retaliation, or conflict. [4:57] How do we create a culture and create trust where people want to hold each other accountable and want to be held accountable? It would be a culture where team members don’t see accountability as a threat but as a way of teaming together to help everyone be the best that they can be. [6:04] One person can influence a team to a degree, depending on their status within the team. [7:17] The leader establishes the culture. The leader can tell the team that it is expected for them to have difficult conversations with each other instead of coming to the leader. It starts with the leader setting the tone and the expectation for open, candid conversation, with good intention, to help each other be their best. That requires real feedback. The leader also needs to reward that behavior. [9:55] If team members are unwilling to hold each other accountable, Leigh Ann loves the ADKAR model for changing behavior. Leigh Ann focuses on the first three aspects: Is the person Aware of their behavior? Do they Desire to change? Do they Know how to change? That’s where Leigh Ann starts to figure out why a person is not willing to engage in difficult conversations. [11:50] One of the principles in Leigh Ann’s Better Teams training is Readiness. The first element of Readiness is having the right equipment, tools, and resources. If you don’t have those, advocate for yourself. The second element is competence and skill sets. Advocate for the competencies you need. It may involve getting a mentor. The third element is being adaptive, flexible, and agile. Can you pivot? [12:59] Leigh Ann relates being adaptive to stress levels. People are fairly adaptive but when stress levels get high, we begin to get less adaptive and flexible. When there’s a lot of uncertainty, we start to crave certainty, which makes any new change feel bigger than it even may be. Recognize when your stress levels are high and advocate for ways to increase certainty so you can be flexible. [14:18] Instead of advocating for the organization to provide something for you, it is better for you to provide the tools, training, skills, and more to better yourself for the job you have or future roles. Advocating for yourself may become a barrier to doing something for yourself that is well within your capability. [15:09] Leigh Ann clarifies the difference between you managing your self-improvement and advocating for yourself to have the company provide an important solution that will benefit the company while benefiting you. What you can do without guidance or leadership, do independently. [16:38] Jan notes that past guest Kim Cameron, spoke a lot about abundance versus scarcity. As we come out of a pandemic, we hear more from our guests about abundance than scarcity. Maybe people are more open-minded than they were. Jan invites you, the listener, to connect on social media about trends you are seeing. And Jan is proposing a prize if somebody listens to all past episodes of the show! [18:11] Jan cites an HBR 1998 article on trust in the virtual team. Trust in virtual teams has been a topic for a while. [18:34] Leigh Ann says some teams are getting human connection right, and some are not doing as well. People need to feel bonded to the people they are working with. Many people miss being in the office with other people. It takes so much more effort to build a meaningful connection on a group call. When you disconnect from the call, you disconnect from the people. [19:56] Before the podcast started recording, Jan, Jim, and Leigh Ann were connected, talking about themselves. They were connecting and building rapport before starting the podcast. When meeting virtually, ask about each other. [21:30] Some individuals and teams want deeper connections and some do not. It has to be managed case by case. Leigh Ann is reading about oxytocin in the book Habits of a Happy Brain. Oxytocin makes us feel connected and bonded. It is released when you come together and start to feel that you know who people are a little bit more and you feel safe with each other. [22:43] When teams get together and do some sort of meaningful team exercise where they’re really getting to know each other in a safe way and as they want to, it creates that sense of bonding that may not be there if you’re just coming together running down a spreadsheet. We need to create spaces for teams to actually share what they want to about themselves and create that sense of connection. [23:13] Leigh Ann suggests building, even virtually, times for teams to come together with a little structure for teams to share and learn about each other. A simple example is to ask team members to bring with them an object that symbolizes something that they value highly. [23:50] Leigh Ann remembers someone bringing in a medal from running in a triathlon, and how running was part of her health journey. Another person brought in something that symbolized a medical challenge they had and a conversation that helped people on the team understand the person better. The team suddenly saw each other in a new dimension which made them more human to each other. [24:51] Another exercise is a DiSC® communication workshop. What are the different ways in which we like to communicate? Are you direct? Do you like to ask questions? [25:19] Doing some really meaningful team exercises like this allows people to get to know each other. Not necessarily sharing all their deep, dark family secrets, but it’s a way to learn about each other and what makes people tick, and create that sense of bonding and closeness we don’t get from typical business meetings. [26:18] You can get people together for celebrations. We tend to celebrate success and meeting goals. We celebrate outcomes. Dr. Carol Dweck focuses on growth mindset. How do we celebrate the effort, even if we fall short of the goal? We should celebrate growth, effort, and learning in addition to outcomes. It’s also important to celebrate individual contributions and specialties each person brings. [29:04] On the farm where Leigh Ann volunteers, each of the 25 volunteers brings something unique. One volunteer loves to paint. She painted sayings all over the farm and created the farm calendar. One volunteer is meticulous with order and structure. It’s important to celebrate the unique contributions of each person on your team. That makes them feel special and increases their serotonin, by the way. [30:32] Leigh Ann tells how she beat the doldrums. Although she loves what she does, she noticed last year she was getting “the blahs.” She had to do some soul-searching to figure it out. She had stopped learning and growing and needed some new things to play into her strengths. She did a lot of learning and coaching with people, reading, and writing that helped her energize again. She got curious! [32:40] Jan and Jim noticed that at the beginning of the pandemic, leaders were energized by the crisis. After 18 months, the same leaders were fired. They couldn’t react anymore, they had to step back and think. They had to be proactive. We’re still in that stage, where people are planning and budgeting and projecting what will happen. Jan directs people to what they value. [33:33] Leigh Ann often asks people to ask themselves “What do you want?” and “What do you need?” That’s the beginning to find out how you get to that. [34:23] Leigh Ann’s listener challenge: Put pen to paper, think about, and first ask yourself, what do you want and what do you need? If you’re not sure, grab a coach to help you think that through. Do some self-reflection and figure it out. Second, ask how you get out of your way. Third, ask how you prioritize and plan to get there. Leigh Ann has sessions starting in January that can help you through this. [36:13] Closing quote: Remember, “Individual commitment to a group effort — that is what makes a team work, a company work, a society work, a civilization work.” — Vince Lombardi   Quotable Quotes “How do we create a culture and create trust where people want to hold each other accountable and want to be held accountable? And they don’t see it as a threat. They see it as a way of teaming together to help everyone be the best that they can be.” — Leigh Ann “In general, people are fairly adaptive but when stress levels get really high, we begin to get less adaptive and flexible. When there’s a lot of uncertainty, we start to crave certainty, which makes any new change feel bigger than it even may be.” — Leigh Ann “We’ve got to figure out ways to create spaces for teams to actually share what they want to about themselves and create that sense of connection and bonding and I think we’ve got to build that in, even more than just, ‘How are you doing?’” — Leigh Ann “Doing some really meaningful team exercises … allows people to get to know each other. And not necessarily for sharing all their deep, dark family secrets, but it’s a way to learn about each other and what makes people tick, and create that sense of bonding.” — Leigh Ann “Take time to put pen to paper and think about what you want and what you need. … And if you’re really not sure, grab a coach. A coach can help you think that through, as well, but do some self-reflection and figure that out.” — Leigh Ann   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Jason Field is an Executive Coach, Outdoor Professional, Expedition Leader, and Past President and CEO of W.L. Gore & Associates. He’s a board member, an entrepreneur, and a veterinarian. His focus is to develop great leaders to be force multipliers for their teams. The discussion covers a team’s responsibility, decision-making, the principles of problem-solving, and the role of process to obtain and maintain focus on the customer. The discussion also includes insights from Jason on his role as a guide for hikes into the Grand Canyon. Jason encourages you to work hard, follow your interests, and chase experiences.     Key Takeaways [2:43] Jason has been married for 16 years. His son just turned 14 and is starting to surpass Jason in capability in just about everything they do together.   [5:05] Adaptability and creative thinking are desirable attributes in many organizations but may be in tension with process and structure. Adaptability and creative thinking are behavioral expressions of a culture. These traits are not desirable in every case, such as when making suture needles, for example, that need a lot of process rigor to come out exactly the same way every time. [5:56] If adaptability and creative thinking are desired outputs, you need leadership levers like the Galbraith Star Model™. You design adaptability and creative thinking into the organization. You look at strategy, structure, processes, rewards, and people to get the behaviors of adaptability and creative thinking as outputs. [6:22] Adaptability and creative thinking go with belief systems and values. You start with the people you bring into the organization. If you bring people in who are highly rule-oriented, it’s going to be hard to pull adaptability and creative thinking out. [7:30] The Gore company emphasized the power of small teams with the most knowledgeable associate taking responsibility for decision-making. Decision rights don’t come from being a leader. A leader in a small team has the responsibility of facilitating a decision-making process and pointing to the most knowledgeable associates. This all requires the team to have organizational strategic clarity. [8:22] You complement small teams with process. If the idea is to be adaptable and draw upon the creative thinkers on the team, you need processes that will move relevant information to the teams in a timely manner so they can act according to the best information. [8:39] Processes should do two things: enable and expedite decision-making and mitigate risks. In the case of teams, it’s mainly about expediting decision-making. [8:51] Rewards make sure you are celebrating business wins when you see teams operating in that adaptable mindset and drawing upon their creativity. [9:20] The Pairin Survey identifies people with high objective and analytical scores versus people with high intuitive and conceptual scores. Most teams are strong in objective and analytical scores for solving problems. Intuitive and conceptual scores relate to being good at understanding the root causes and seeing trends and patterns.   [10:14] Having the right leader at the right time means being able to draw upon both individuals with strong analytical skills and individuals with strong intuitive skills, that can draw out insights from others, depending on the problem or opportunity that’s being presented. [10:58] Jim points out how Jason had clarified an assumption in the first topic of adaptability and creative thinking: Are they desirable in every scenario? Then Jason talked about when they are not helpful and when you need them. How do we encourage people to ask the right questions and clarify their assumptions? [11:53] Jason tells how active listening works for him. He suggests that it’s a powerful thing for leaders to step back and ask themselves what an individual is trying to get across to them and ask the right questions and get the right assumptions on the table as they engage in problem-solving. [13:07] When Jason has an employee engagement, he is trying to inspire them while deriving information for himself. It’s a two-way street. For engaging people, first, demonstrate an interest in what that individual or team is doing. Draw people to the higher purpose of the strategy of the organization. Demonstrate that you care about them. [14:20] Jason and Jim role-play a conversation. Jim is an engineer working on a product development team and Jason is an executive who pops into the office and asks what Jim’s working on. As they talk, Jason shows interest, asks follow-up questions, points to organizational strategy and tying to the customer, uses active listening, adds personal encouragement, and offers help for resources. [17:28] Deconstructing the role-play, the leader makes sure the person knows the leader is listening by repeating and validating what the person says, taps into the personal impact of how the person feels, and how the leader can help. These things are attributes of an energizing discussion. The leader asks how the person knows they are being successful, looking at their place in the organization. [19:20] The best way to inculcate the core values into the organization is to demonstrate them. You’ve got to walk the talk. Jason says that it’s a competitive advantage to being a purpose-driven organization that’s incorporated its values into the fabric of its operation. Jason leans pretty hard on that type of work. This assumes you’ve done the hard work to identify values that are true to the organization. [20:37] When you have your organizational values, incorporate them into your mission, vision, and strategy. Those are the pillars upon which your organization’s direction is built. Then draw on those components and demonstrate the values in your products, services, and decision-making frameworks in the organization. At the end of the day, those values characterize your brand. [21:59] Integrity is one value Jason sees a lot. Integrity may be subject to interpretation. Integrity has a dependence upon the values that sit behind it. Make sure you know how your key stakeholders are interpreting integrity. Military veterans often say integrity is choosing the hard right vs. the easy wrong. [23:55] When the board and leadership align with the core values and demonstrate them, that brings alignment around the value of integrity. Brand strategist Tom Storey told Jason that value is “A promise made and kept by the entire organization and experienced by our customers.” [24:39] Keep those values front and center in your decisions so you create experiences that reinforce them. Celebrate the individuals, teams, and products that demonstrate the values you hold dear. That’s how you start to embed those values into organizations. [26:25] Jason shared his thoughts about personal responsibility. Can it be taught? There is a “nurture” component in surrounding people with others that demonstrate accountability and commitment to an outcome. The peer environment might be the strongest driver of personal accountability. The Special Forces environment creates a very high expectation of dependency on one another. [27:30] Leaders can draw out that discretionary effort in a way that’s rewarding to the individual. Use a rewards system that addresses various levels in Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. The financial component can elevate people to a limited degree to rise to challenges. The personal recognition of catching people doing things right is energizing. Help people understand their place on the team and in the organization. [28:43] Be purpose-oriented. Show how products and services contribute to a greater good and make a difference in the world. Jason’s favorite rewards system is giving people the freedom to operate individually, drawing on their strengths to make a difference in the organization. [30:23] There are individual incentives and team incentives that can be used to encourage performance. Jason leans toward understanding what you are trying to create and whether you are relying heavily on team-based outcomes or you need individuals to get into the lab and grind away toward solutions and outcomes. Jason’s bias is to revert to the power of teams. But Bob Gore invented Gore-Tex individually. [31:07] You can’t look past individual accomplishments and assume the team will come together and deliver a better outcome because it’s a team. There are different environments and different problems that call for different solutions. To the extent you can see that, as a leader, is how you should build your incentive structure [32:08] What derails leaders? Jason says it’s losing sight of the market and getting disconnected from sales. It’s easy to become internally focused and pull internal levers to optimize an organization, moving away from the market and the customer. You might drive value creation in the near term but miss market signals for long-term opportunities. Optimize for the near term and Invest for the long term. [34:08] One of the most important lessons Jason learned, mid-career, as he was transitioning into product leadership was clarity of purpose and the role process plays. Jason was working in medical devices and the stakes are high in that product category and a lot of risk. The division leader went to all meetings when there was a product issue that could have a patient impact. [35:45] The division leader always brought clarity by asking what is the process telling us, and is the process benefitting us? If the process isn’t giving us clarity as to what the answer might be, we probably don’t have a good process in place. Jason’s takeaway was the role process plays in helping to understand the root cause of what’s going on. If the process isn’t giving the answer, make some changes. [36:28] The final answer never comes from the product. What is all the data telling you, and how does that translate into the impact on the customer? In medical devices, of course, patients are the most important. Keep what is most important to your organization front and center in decisions when things don’t go as planned. [37:30] Jason has been an outdoor enthusiast his entire life. In the past year, he started guiding in the Grand Canyon. It has been absolutely fascinating. When you’re a guide in that setting, people are out of their element and hold guides in high regard. Jason hosts a picnic lunch and insists on doing all the cleaning. It sends the message that he’s there to serve and a reminder of the power of service. [39:09] People hiking into the Grand Canyon have varying levels of physical fitness. The two things to be most concerned about on the hike are dehydration and heat exhaustion. You need people to be on point and listening, from the very start of the trailhead. It is very hard to keep people focused and get to where you want them to go. Pace matters. There are no easy hikes into the canyon and out. [40:18] You have to get the right feedback mechanisms in place. Verbal communication can be one of the worst ways to get feedback on a hike. You have to set up mechanisms to get guest feedback. Are they stumbling? How much water are they drinking? Jason counts water bottles. Organization leaders also have to be aware that much is non-verbal. Set up feedback mechanisms. Pay attention. [43:16] Jason offers three core elements that come together to create a high likelihood of success: Work hard, follow your interests, and chase experiences. If Jason hadn’t chased the experience of a crucible with Jan, he probably wouldn’t be doing outdoor leadership experiences and executive coaching now. He thanks Jan for that. It was walking the talk. [44:40] Closing quote: Remember, “” — Howard Thurman   Quotable Quotes “What Gore has really done well, historically, is emphasize the power of small teams. Not only small teams but, in addition, … emphasis on the most knowledgeable employee … taking responsibility for decision-making. … Decision rights don’t come with being a leader.” — Jason “If the idea is to be adaptable and really draw upon the creative thinkers on the team, you have to think about processes that are going to move information to those teams in a timely manner so they’ve got relevant information.” — Jason “Depending on the problem or the opportunity that’s presented, you want to be able to draw upon those individuals that have the deep analytical skills or those that can kind of characterize the problem and draw out the insights from others to orient the team.” — Jason “Integrity has a dependency on all the other values that sit behind it.” — Jason “Celebrate those individuals, those teams, and those products that are demonstrative of the values that you hold dear. And that’s how you start to embed this into organizations.” — Jason “When a leader is willing to pick up a broom or pick up trash, the message that sends to the organization is pretty cool.” — Jason “A lot of times when you ask those questions, you don’t always get honest answers, so you’ve gotta have those other cues that are feeding you information.” — Jason “The hard work comes easy when the interest level is high.” — Jason   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

Mike is the author of “Leadership in Balance and Management in Balance,” the founder of Crispian Consulting, and a retired Army officer. Mike shares his thoughts on balance and equilibrium, and what that means for management versus leadership. Contained in this episode is essential advice for newly-minted leaders, and a discussion on learning tools. At the end of the episode is a great “both/and” challenge!     Key Takeaways [3:05] Mike played rugby as a Military Academy cadet. He had a lot of fun with his teammates. Rugby helped him develop into the person he is. [4:05] Jim met Mike as a keynote speaker, speaking about balance and being a fulcrum. Jim took a lot of notes. Mike defines balance for leaders and managers. It’s not things being equal, it’s the equilibrium of a work/life balance. Mike talks about managers spending up to 80 hours a week at work. That doesn’t leave equal hours to spend with your family. When you’re home, give them your undivided attention. [6:23] Mike teaches “both/and” as an alternative to the “either/or” way of looking at problems. The vast majority of things in life are not dilemmas where you must make one or the other choice. Most questions involve equilibrium or equipoise. Apply the right amount of each choice to where it balances. Mike says to be the fulcrum. Be the point on which balance is achieved. [7:49] Mike writes about four central domains in leadership: Communication, Adaptability, Focus, and Influence. You can find an equilibrium but the environment is constantly changing so your equilibrium will also change. Mike works with people to be ready for change. A key part of the model is situational awareness. What’s going on in the environment that’s different from your natural tendency? [10:11] Mike admits there were times as an Army officer when he should have given more direct orders. Instead of telling people why something was important to do, he needed to tell them how to do it. He didn’t always recognize what the situation demanded of him so he couldn’t be the fulcrum. [12:14] While doing the Audible version of his first book. Leadership in Balance, Mike realized that the four central domains have descriptive names. Communication is the Foundational Domain, upon which leadership is built. The other three domains rely on effective communication. Focus is the Purpose Domain. Adaptability is the Action Domain. Influence is the Mission Domain. [14:27] Mike’s second book, Management in Balance, is out now. It covers four domains, Time, Material, Risk, and Change. [15:08] Mike addresses the mindsets of abundance and scarcity. What is your attitude about an abundance of risk, versus a scarcity of risk, or an abundance of material, versus a scarcity of material? Mike quotes former Green Beret Kevin Owens: “The most innovative people I know are poor.” The conditions are the conditions, so we have to deal with the condition, whether abundance or scarcity. [16:50] Are you seeing risks that are not there? Are you not seeing risks that are present and are you becoming reckless? The balance comes into play in that as a manager you have to deal with the current condition honestly and as it exists but you have to prepare yourself and your team for that shift that is going to come. Supply chain issues are examples of shifts. Adjust to conditions as they change. [19:39] Using an Army metaphor, you need to position yourself where you can best influence the action. You might need to stand back a bit to have a wider view and receive news from outside organizations. Or you might go to the front lines to direct people who don’t know what to do. That’s one of the ultimate leadership calls. The same principle applies in a business context. [20:29] Being the fulcrum is creating the ability for equilibrium by managing resources and assigning tasks. Mike says ultimately, time management is task management; how you prioritize and assign tasks. That’s the nexus of leadership and management. Position yourself as a leader/manager where you can do the most to create equilibrium in these areas. Be open to signals coming from the environment. [21:33] Empowerment and subordinate development consist of pushing decisions down as far as you can send them. Stan McChrystal taught MIke to get the authority down to where decisions can be made most effectively. Mike notes that Ukraine is using that model now, based on U.S. assistance from 2014. Mike asks, are you doing it well, are you doing it right, and are you doing it in a way that makes sense? [23:04] The fulcrum creates balance based on where it’s positioned along the lever. You, the leader/manager create balance by how you influence, position yourself, lead, and manage in these domains access your organization. [24:28] Mike discusses newly promoted “player-coaches.” Both of Mike’s books are intended for new managers and also senior leaders who are responsible to promote new managers and leaders and he invites leaders to make these decisions thoughtfully and intentionally.[26:07] The first thing anyone entering into a new position needs to decide is whether they want a job or a career. Get it wrong and you will be miserable to be on the wrong path. And senior management needs to be able to look at you and see if you have leadership potential and the desire for a career. Are you willing to make the physical, emotional, and mental sacrifices that leadership requires? [29:20] Sometimes we get frustrating answers from asking the wrong questions. Sometimes our ego stands in the way of asking the better question because we don’t want to know the answer. Or we overlook that we might have been wrong previously. Surround yourself with smart people. Put together a smart team with at least one person who asks, “What are we missing? What is another possibility?” [30:29] Always look for the third option. Don’t let decisions be either X or Not-X. Having one more option forces you to think more deeply about the problem and how that plays out as a solution. Most of us quickly make decisions based on experience. Step back and ask some other smart people what they’re seeing. Reframe the problem. Mike tells how he addressed an IED problem to improve mobility. [34:03] Remember that everything you do as a team or an individual is a performance cycle. A performance cycle has four steps: Plan, Prepare, Execute, and Review. Don’t skip the Review step, especially if you succeed, because it will help you plan better for the next performance cycle. [37:21] Mike’s next book focuses on management and leadership as a “both/and” proposition and will speak to executives. Mike discusses the risk to mission, the risk to people, and the risk to reputation. You have to know where those three types of risks are lurking. Manage to mitigate that risk to your people, your mission, and your reputation. Look for opportunities to find acceptable risk and grab market share. [40:43] Mike wrote the second book to define management, setting the stage for his next book, covering leadership and management. New managers always ask Mike whether management or leadership is more important. The better question is, how are they different and when do you do each? The domains for the Management/Leadership equipoise are: What, How, When, and Why? [42:45] Mike’s challenge for listeners: Find the “both/and.” When you think you’re on the horns of a dilemma, step back for a minute and ask, “Is this really an either/or proposition, or is there some question of equilibrium that needs to be found between these competing demands?” If you do that, you may find that you are more effective and a lot happier in your role. [44:07] Closing quote: “There is no decision that we can make that doesn’t come with some sort of balance or sacrifice.” — Simon Sinek   Quotable Quotes “A lot of people, their thoughts immediately go to things being equal; … a balanced scale. … Balance is not about things being equal. Balance is about finding equilibrium; a work/life balance.” — Mike “The equilibrium comes in when you’re home, giving them your undivided attention, putting your work aside, and getting involved in the things they’re involved in.” — Mike “The vast majority of things are a question of balance, equilibrium, equipoise: to take these things that are in contention with each other and apply the right amount of each to where it balances.” — Mike “That’s why the ‘be the fulcrum’ thing comes into play. That’s my reminder to everybody that you’ve got to be the point on which balance, equilibrium, is achieved.” — Mike “As an Army officer, … I wanted to be more indirect in how I influenced people. I was very much, ‘This is what you’ve got to do and this is why it’s important,’ not, ‘this is how you’re going to do it.’ … There were situations where I should have been more like that.” — Mike “I've been asking a lot of clients lately, ‘What’s the most important thing that you do, and are you getting better at it every day?’ And almost invariably, it boils down to their ability to communicate.” — Jan “Limiting resources can make people very resilient. The most innovative people I know are poor.” — Former Green Beret Kevin Owens, quoted by Mike Lerario “If you’re in the retail business now, you’ve seen this roller coaster. You had a lot and all of a sudden, maybe people didn’t have money, and then people got money and they’re buying all your stuff and the supply chain gets impacted because there are 50 ships backed up.” — Mike “[Speaking] as an Army guy, one of the most important lessons is that you need to position yourself where you can best influence the action. In some cases that might mean that you’re standing back and you have a wider view of the battlefield.” — Mike “The fulcrum creates balance based on where it’s positioned along the lever. You, the leader/manager create balance by how you influence, position yourself, lead, and manage in these domains access your organization.” — Mike “I’m a firm believer that, especially with decision making, you have to find a third option, always. If you’re looking at the decisions as, ‘I’ve got to do A or I’ve got to do B,’ or ‘I’ve got to do X or Not-X,’ you’re going to fail. … You have a higher probability of failure.” — Mike   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

This episode is about the importance of finding the underlying causes for today’s common leadership challenges. It’s about not making the mistake of treating symptoms versus the underlying root cause. Learn how curiosity can inspire and provide insight. Often, the objective, analytic thinking that propelled you to the C-suite now needs to be paired with intuition and conceptualization for you to see the trends and patterns of issues. If you’re not a CEO, you can learn to think like one and increase your value to the organization. Listen to the end for the listener challenge!     Key Takeaways [1:26] This week’s topic: focusing on the problem. Jim recently talked to a client who had set a goal. The goal was a solution to a problem, for example, buying a new system that would run the company and fix everything. While talking about the solution, the client was not talking enough about the problem. Solving the problem is the goal. Does this solution, or another solution, solve the problem? [3:01] Jim thinks this is important because as consultants and coaches, Jan and Jim’s job is to dig into the problem, not just provide a solution. Jim worked with Bard Press on a book, and his contact, Todd, kept reminding him to focus on the problem. Jan and Jim recently interviewed Dre Baldwin who also said to focus on the problem! So this is a timely topic. [3:47] Jan quotes guest Brian Caulfield saying, “Sell the problem, not the solution,” as the most quotable quote of the podcast. When people look at problems, they often neglect to look for the root cause. They come up with an “either this or that” solution; the best solution might be “this and that.” Jan refers to Peter Senge and the Fifth Discipline, using systems thinking to figure out the problem. [4:45] The Pairin Behavioral Surveys that Jan has run find that 95% of the time, people score very high in Objective-Analytical and very low in Intuitive-Conceptual. Intuitive-Conceptual is about understanding the root causes of things and being open-minded. [6:18] When Jim does sales training, he goes back to Sandler for the Dummy Curve. When you get a new salesperson, who doesn’t know a lot about the product, but they’re successful right away, for two reasons: They don’t know enough about the product to talk about the product, so they ask a lot of questions centered around the problem. That creates an affinity with the customer. [7:48] Does the product solve the problem? No one cares how the product works if it solves the problem. Focus on the problem. When you don’t know how the product works, you have no choice but to focus on the problem. You ask questions that define the problem better. If the sales force knows too much, they want to show their mastery and talk more. That ruins the sale. [8:25] The Dummy Curve is that you come in, you have success, and then you lose it the more you learn. Jim coaches leaders not to train new salespeople too much on the product. Talk to them about the problem that their product solves. Coach them on the business problems people have that invite your product and solution. Have them be more curious about those. [9:25] Jan sees this episode as emphasizing the power of the question. Jan has been coaching about coaching and asking difficult questions. A better approach to a difficult conversation is “Hey, Jim, how do you think that meeting went?” rather than “Hey, Jim, you know what you did in that meeting?” The higher up we go, we need to be better about the questions. [10:16] Jan coached someone about presenting to a high level in the organization. The presenter was rehearsing what to say to influence a decision. Jan asked, “What objections and resistances do you expect?” They discussed how answers to objections could be questions and they considered sample questions. Questions don’t have power unless you’re curious about the problem and the root cause. [11:40] Talk about task conflict and not personal conflict. Depersonalize the difficult conversation. Focus on the issues. What is the problem that we need to solve together? Jan brings up an example of heating service people who got to the root cause of his problem. If you understand the root cause, you can at least put a bandage on it. Without knowing the root cause, that’s about all you can do. [14:47] Some reasons people are content with a bandage instead of getting to the root of the problem are that they don’t have time, they don’t care, competing priorities, or having so many problems crossing their desks that they don’t notice how big one specific problem is. They don’t have curiosity, or they have a bias toward quick action. Jan compares it to being seen by a dismissive doctor. [18:01] Jim refers to his upcoming book. The first part of the book is about diagnosing business symptoms. We sometimes mistake the symptom for the problem. Jim shares a story from the book about his father, having abdominal pain in his 60s. The doctor refused to look at the pain as the problem but recognized it as a symptom of an abdominal aortic aneurysm. She saved his life with surgery. [22:08] Jan explains the levers of change: people, incentives, structure, and process. Leaders are rewarded for being problem solvers so the incentive is to solve problems fast. At a certain point, when they start taking on high levels of responsibility, the job shifts from doing to thinking. Jan tells people to think like a designer. Look at each lever. It’s not always an issue for coaching to solve. [24:25] If you’re not the CEO but you want to be a valuable employee, think like a CEO. Help the CEO see what they might not be seeing. CEOs need to look at the broad performance of the organization and see the patterns, then dig and understand what’s behind those patterns. Past guest, Jim Gilmore, author of Look, wrote about seeing through binoculars, field glass, and microscope. CEOs need a field glass. [26:35] People are worried about budgeting for the next year and they’re all worried about low sales numbers. They’re looking for things to cut from the budget instead of asking what it would take to increase their sales for the next year. Jan always asks where the assumptions behind the budget are coming from.  [28:07] Jan notes that scaling means doing more with less by getting more productive and becoming more efficient. Jim asserts that the companies that don’t panic during downtimes but invest wisely can grow at great paces compared to those who batten the hatches and shrink. Always seek to understand the problem before solving it. [29:30] Look at the number of companies that were created and grew prodigiously in the Great Depression. The Great Depression was awful. The tech giants of today did not panic during the dot.com bust. They doubled down and grew. There are opportunities all the time but if you’re fixated on a solution, you will not see the opportunities that surround you. [30:39] Jim offers an audience challenge: Pay close attention over the week. Listen twice as much as you talk and listen for where you hear either yourself or other people so enamored with a solution that they are missing the real point of understanding the problem. If you recognize that moment, redirect the conversation; ask a question to understand. You will find a more productive outcome on the other side. [32:03] Jan reflects that Jim’s audience challenge will take temperance, self-discipline, and self-awareness to understand your effect on other people. Jim and Jan invite you to get in touch with your feedback on these Jim and Jan episodes and suggestions for what subjects you would like Jim and Jan to talk about next. [33:18] Closing quote: Remember, “It isn’t that they can’t see the solution. It is that they can’t see the problem.” —   Quotable Quotes “When we spend too much time talking about the solution, the trap we fall into is that we limit the possibilities for what the real solution could be because we’re not spending enough time talking about the problem.” — Jim “What course of action is going to be the best path toward the future?” — Jim “It goes back to the Fifth Discipline — what Peter Senge wrote about systems thinking.” — Jan “I say to leaders, ‘What got you here is your ability to see patterns … and make quick decisions. … But those quick decisions are based on paradigms and biases. As a high-level leader, you need to suspend that, have … an open mind, and figure out what’s causing this.’” — Jan “Talk to [new salespeople] about the problem that your product solves. Coach them on the business problems people have with regard to your product and solution.” “We need to talk about process and task conflict and not personal conflict.” — Jim “Too many times, we look at a symptom and we don’t realize — we think it’s the problem but it’s just the symptom and … the real business problems are masked by those symptoms.” — Jim “Everybody’s got blinders on.” — Peter Drucker, quoted by Jan “If you’re not the CEO but you want to be a really valuable employee, think like a CEO.” — Jan “We all know that scaling means you’re doing more with less. Not because we’re working people harder but because we’re getting smarter, we’re getting more productive, and we’re getting more efficient. Not because we’re driving people like machines.” — Jan “Look at the number of companies that were created and grew prodigiously in the Great Depression. … You could say times were different, but they’re not.” — Jim   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Interact with Jan and Jim on , , , and  

Jan Rutherford and Jim Vaselopulos, the hosts of The Leadership Podcast, explore core values based on the six cardinal virtues. Follow the discussion in this important episode to be reminded how the cardinal virtues apply in life and at work, and how you and your organization can move forward by going back to the fundamentals of leadership.   Key Takeaways [1:25] Jan and Jim have both received a lot of very positive texts about Episode 332, featuring Richie Norton, who talked about the brevity of life. Jan sees that people are planning frantically for next year. [3:05] Leaders are making sure they don’t get caught up in emotions but look at the facts. Jim refers to past guest Alan Beaulieu and ITR Economics. The slowdown we’re feeling is a slowdown in the rate of growth, not a recession. Slowing from 25% growth to 9% growth feels like the airbags just came on. Don’t overreact. [5:20] The numbers come from our words, deeds, and our ability to work through other people. Leaders get people to do things willingly that they would not do otherwise. How we lead depends on our values. Ask what is the most important thing, the second-most important, the third-most important, and so forth. We need to prioritize what we value and translate those values into behaviors we can observe. [6:47] If we say we value integrity, what is the observable behavior that comes from that value? Is hitting the number that top priority, or are people a priority? [7:42] It doesn’t matter what you say, it matters what you do. Your culture is a product of your daily decisions and how you treat people. [8:53] Jim recalls an experience from his first college internship at Glenview Tool Company. The owner, Mike Sciortino told him that a security device can’t prevent all theft but it can help keep honest people honest. Jim says, as leaders, let’s help people do the right thing. Let’s encourage them. [11:04] Jan shares a recent airline experience where “the system” wouldn’t allow the airline to fix a problem. The system should be for people! [11:40] Jan explains the six cardinal virtues: Wisdom, Courage, Humanity, Justice, Temperance, and Transcendence. Wisdom is built upon curiosity. We have to reward curiosity if we want people to be able to identify problems. Daily, use the statement, “That’s a great question!” Reward questions! It’s important to catch people doing right. [17:15] Take the focus of questions away from yourself and put it on the other person. Instead of saying, “I don’t understand this, can you explain it to me?” say, “That’s fascinating. Help me understand why you’re going about it that way.” [18:12] Courage gets a lot of talk these days. The best business translation of courage is honesty. Sometimes we say authentic. Jan coached a client who had been honest to their boss, but their boss just got quiet, as though wounded. If we want the truth, we need to hear it. Jim cites Choosing Courage, by Jim Detert. Courage is related to timing. Sometimes, wait for the right moment instead of blurting it out. [21:45] Jan’s client recently told him that part of being courageous is not being complicit. Don’t keep quiet about stuff. [22:39] Employees always have three choices about their workplace: Suck it up and deal with a toxic culture, try to change it, or leave. What do you stand for? What are you willing to compromise on, or not? It’s not like there’s much greener grass in different places, but there is different grass in all the organizations. You don’t have to be complicit in a toxic culture or abusive leadership. [24:40] Humanity is simple kindness or the Golden Rule. This can be hard because there’s a lot of competition. There’s tunnel vision. Some niceties go by the wayside. But research shows that human kindness works. Humans respond best to positive reinforcement. Humanity is a decision that doesn’t depend on anyone else. Just be kind, even if people are mean to you. It’s doing the right thing. [28:01] Jan tells of going from being a sergeant to being an officer. He was told, “You don’t have to speak like the soldiers; you can be above that.” It’s a matter of respect. If you try to fit in by speaking the cool lingo, it is inauthentic. [28:58] Justice is fairness. Organizations are asking people to be fair to one another. But, in personalized leadership, you can’t treat everybody the same, because of their individuality and the work function they have. People want one-on-one time with their leader. In all that, we have to be sure we’re being perceived as being fair. Encourage others in the organization to be fair and equitable. [33:19] Temperance is self-discipline. Without self-discipline and sacrifice, we can’t tackle big goals. John Wooden taught players how to put on socks and shoes so they wouldn’t get blisters. In business, we are missing so many fundamentals, such as starting and ending meetings on time and being predictable. [35:00] Jim says discipline is respect. Showing up to meetings on time is respectful of everybody’s time. Discipline with personal and business goals is respect for how important those goals are. If you don’t have self-discipline, you probably don’t have self-respect. Discipline thrives when you have respect. If you don’t have self-respect, discipline falters. [36:29] Transcendence is spirituality. In work, Jan sees it as being gracious and operating with gratitude. Jim reminds us that in the grand scheme of things, our role is small. How do you relate to the universe and other people and creatures? Barry Schwartz, in Practical Wisdom, told of janitors in a cancer care unit operating with graciousness because the patients were in great need and having a hard time. [38:19] The transcendent behavior of the janitors improved the condition of the patients, who were at their most humiliating moments. The janitors were looking at the bigger picture than cleaning up a mess. In high-performing organizations, people operate with that level of transcendence. People who win the Medal of Honor are operating with transcendence, also known as Mission, Vision, and Values. [39:20] Companies are not started for the sake of creating a great culture. A company starts because there is a market need, and they think they can help people. More people get involved and then they think about having a good company, which means having a good culture. People are tribal. The cardinal virtues are the rules to get along with our tribe and be of service to other humans in other tribes. [40:50] Things feel out of hand because we’ve gotten so far from the fundamentals. As you look at planning, go back and say, “Are we making this too complicated?” [42:24] Closing quote: Remember, “Courage is the most important of all the virtues because without courage you can’t practice any other virtue consistently. You can practice any virtue erratically, but nothing consistently without courage.” — Maya Angelou   Quotable Quotes “As [Richie Norton] reminded us, ‘Life is short’ isn’t a cliché, it’s true. and ‘Don’t defer your dreams.’ Boy, that show resonated!” — Jan “We had some sectors that were growing at 25% and now they’re only going to grow at 9%, so it feels like the airbags just came on because we’re slowing down from 25 to 9. … The slowdown is huge but it’s still a rate of growth. … Let’s not overreact.” — Jim “[As a leader,] you’re basically saying, ‘Let’s change the trajectory, let’s improve performance, let’s do something different that you wouldn’t have done if I didn’t intercede.’” — Jan “Your culture isn’t what you want it to be. Your culture is a product of the decisions you make on a daily basis. … Do [you] respect people? Do [you] listen to them when they have a concern?” — Jim “If people aren’t asking questions around you, you might be the emperor without clothes.” — Jim “There is a way to ask a question so that it will never be perceived as stupid. … [Instead of ‘I don’t understand this,’ say], ‘That’s really fascinating. What made you think to do it that way?’ or ‘Help me understand why you’re going about it that way.’” — Jim “We see what’s going on in big tech right now; it’s all fear. It’s awful. People are afraid to speak up.” — Jan “It’s not like there’s much greener grass in different places, but there is different grass in all the organizations. They’re different. There might be a place where the values line up better with what you’re all about. You don’t have to be complicit in a toxic culture.” — Jan “Humanity is a decision that doesn’t depend on anyone else. If you’re going to be kind, just be kind, even if people are mean to you.” — Jim “As leaders, we’ve got to encourage others in the organization to be fair and equitable.” — Jan “We know this: Without a certain amount of self-discipline and sacrifice, you can’t tackle big goals and defer short-term pleasures. It’s really hard. And any organization has really long-term goals.” — Jan “No company that I know of was started to create a great culture. … Every company starts because there’s a market need and they think they can help other human beings. And then they get more people involved. And then they say, … ``We should have a good company!” — Jan “We are tribal. To me, these cardinal virtues are the rules for us to behave in a certain way to get along with our tribe and to deliver services, offerings, and products to other humans in other tribes. That’s what we’re doing.” — Jan “Everything feels like it’s out of hand because we’ve gotten so far from the fundamentals.” — Jan   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Interact with Jan and Jim on , , , and

Jan Rutherford and Jim Vaselopulos, the hosts of The Leadership Podcast, explore core values based on the six cardinal virtues. Follow the discussion in this important episode to be reminded how the cardinal virtues apply in life and at work, and how you and your organization can move forward by going back to the fundamentals of leadership.   Key Takeaways [1:25] Jan and Jim have both received a lot of very positive texts about Episode 332, featuring Richie Norton, who talked about the brevity of life. Jan sees that people are planning frantically for next year. [3:05] Leaders are making sure they don’t get caught up in emotions but look at the facts. Jim refers to past guest Alan Beaulieu and ITR Economics. The slowdown we’re feeling is a slowdown in the rate of growth, not a recession. Slowing from 25% growth to 9% growth feels like the airbags just came on. Don’t overreact. [5:20] The numbers come from our words, deeds, and our ability to work through other people. Leaders get people to do things willingly that they would not do otherwise. How we lead depends on our values. Ask what is the most important thing, the second-most important, the third-most important, and so forth. We need to prioritize what we value and translate those values into behaviors we can observe. [6:47] If we say we value integrity, what is the observable behavior that comes from that value? Is hitting the number that top priority, or are people a priority? [7:42] It doesn’t matter what you say, it matters what you do. Your culture is a product of your daily decisions and how you treat people. [8:53] Jim recalls an experience from his first college internship at Glenview Tool Company. The owner, Mike Sciortino told him that a security device can’t prevent all theft but it can help keep honest people honest. Jim says, as leaders, let’s help people do the right thing. Let’s encourage them. [11:04] Jan shares a recent airline experience where “the system” wouldn’t allow the airline to fix a problem. The system should be for people! [11:40] Jan explains the six cardinal virtues: Wisdom, Courage, Humanity, Justice, Temperance, and Transcendence. Wisdom is built upon curiosity. We have to reward curiosity if we want people to be able to identify problems. Daily, use the statement, “That’s a great question!” Reward questions! It’s important to catch people doing right. [17:15] Take the focus of questions away from yourself and put it on the other person. Instead of saying, “I don’t understand this, can you explain it to me?” say, “That’s fascinating. Help me understand why you’re going about it that way.” [18:12] Courage gets a lot of talk these days. The best business translation of courage is honesty. Sometimes we say authentic. Jan coached a client who had been honest to their boss, but their boss just got quiet, as though wounded. If we want the truth, we need to hear it. Jim cites Choosing Courage, by Jim Detert. Courage is related to timing. Sometimes, wait for the right moment instead of blurting it out. [21:45] Jan’s client recently told him that part of being courageous is not being complicit. Don’t keep quiet about stuff. [22:39] Employees always have three choices about their workplace: Suck it up and deal with a toxic culture, try to change it, or leave. What do you stand for? What are you willing to compromise on, or not? It’s not like there’s much greener grass in different places, but there is different grass in all the organizations. You don’t have to be complicit in a toxic culture or abusive leadership. [24:40] Humanity is simple kindness or the Golden Rule. This can be hard because there’s a lot of competition. There’s tunnel vision. Some niceties go by the wayside. But research shows that human kindness works. Humans respond best to positive reinforcement. Humanity is a decision that doesn’t depend on anyone else. Just be kind, even if people are mean to you. It’s doing the right thing. [28:01] Jan tells of going from being a sergeant to being an officer. He was told, “You don’t have to speak like the soldiers; you can be above that.” It’s a matter of respect. If you try to fit in by speaking the cool lingo, it is inauthentic. [28:58] Justice is fairness. Organizations are asking people to be fair to one another. But, in personalized leadership, you can’t treat everybody the same, because of their individuality and the work function they have. People want one-on-one time with their leader. In all that, we have to be sure we’re being perceived as being fair. Encourage others in the organization to be fair and equitable. [33:19] Temperance is self-discipline. Without self-discipline and sacrifice, we can’t tackle big goals. John Wooden taught players how to put on socks and shoes so they wouldn’t get blisters. In business, we are missing so many fundamentals, such as starting and ending meetings on time and being predictable. [35:00] Jim says discipline is respect. Showing up to meetings on time is respectful for everybody’s time. Discipline with personal and business goals is respect for how important those goals are. If you don’t have self-discipline, you probably don’t have self-respect. Discipline thrives when you have respect. If you don’t have self-respect, discipline falters. [36:29] Transcendence is spirituality. In work, Jan sees it as being gracious and operating with gratitude. Jim reminds us that in the grand scheme of things, our role is small. How do you relate to the universe and other people and creatures? Barry Schwartz, in Practical Wisdom, told of janitors in a cancer care unit operating with graciousness because the patients were in great need and having a hard time. [38:19] The transcendent behavior of the janitors improved the condition of the patients, who were at their most humiliating moments. The janitors were looking at the bigger picture than cleaning up a mess. In high-performing organizations, people operate with that level of transcendence. People who win the Medal of Honor are operating with transcendence, also known as Mission, Vision, and Values. [39:20] Companies are not started for the sake of creating a great culture. A company starts because there is a market need, and they think they can help people. More people get involved and then they think about having a good company, which means having a good culture. People are tribal. The cardinal virtues are the rules to get along with our tribe and be of service to other humans in other tribes. [40:50] Things feel out of hand because we’ve gotten so far from the fundamentals. As you look at planning, go back and say, “Are we making this too complicated?” [42:24] Closing quote: Remember, “Courage is the most important of all the virtues, because without courage you can’t practice any other virtue consistently. You can practice any virtue erratically, but nothing consistently without courage.” — Maya Angelou   Quotable Quotes “As [Richie Norton] reminded us, ‘Life is short’ isn’t a cliché, it’s true. and ‘Don’t defer your dreams.’ Boy, that show resonated!” — Jan “We had some sectors that were growing at 25% and now they’re only going to grow at 9%, so it feels like the airbags just came on because we’re slowing down from 25 to 9. … The slowdown is huge but it’s still a rate of growth. … Let’s not overreact.” — Jim “[As a leader,] you’re basically saying, ‘Let’s change the trajectory, let’s improve performance, let’s do something different that you wouldn’t have done if I didn’t intercede.’” — Jan “Your culture isn’t what you want it to be. Your culture is a product of the decisions you make on a daily basis. … Do [you] respect people? Do [you] listen to them when they have a concern?” — Jim “If people aren’t asking questions around you, you might be the emperor without clothes.” — Jim “There is a way to ask a question so that it will never be perceived as stupid. … [Instead of ‘I don’t understand this,’ say], ‘That’s really fascinating. What made you think to do it that way?’ or ‘Help me understand why you’re going about it that way.’” — Jim “We see what’s going on in big tech right now; it’s all fear. It’s awful. People are afraid to speak up.” — Jan “It’s not like there’s much greener grass in different places, but there is different grass in all the organizations. They’re different. There might be a place where the values line up better with what you’re all about. You don’t have to be complicit in a toxic culture.” — Jan “Humanity is a decision that doesn’t depend on anyone else. If you’re going to be kind, just be kind, if people are mean to you.” — Jim “As leaders, we’ve got to encourage others in the organization to be fair and equitable.” — Jan “We know this: Without a certain amount of self-discipline and sacrifice, you can’t tackle big goals and defer short-term pleasures. It’s really hard. And any organization has really long-term goals.” — Jan “No company that I know of was started to create a great culture. … Every company starts because there’s a market need and they think they can help other human beings. And then they get more people involved. And then they say, … ``We should have a good company!” — Jan “We are tribal. To me, these cardinal virtues are the rules for us to behave in a certain way to get along with our tribe and to deliver services, offerings, and products to other humans in other tribes. That’s what we’re doing.” — Jan “Everything feels like it’s out of hand because we’ve gotten so far from the fundamentals.” — Jan   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Interact with Jan and Jim on , , , and The Marshmallow Test

Richie Norton is the author of “Anti-Time Management,” and a Marshall Goldsmith 100 Coach. He is the CEO of Prouduct, an INC. 5000 company.  In this episode, Richie opens up about tragedies that changed the way he lives, works, and spends time with his family. Richie describes work-life flexibility in three parts: Ability, Availability, and Autonomy. His message: Don’t defer your dreams.       Key Takeaways [2:15] Richie Norton walks his dog on the beach every day. He travels the world and works from his phone. [2:29] The name of his company, Prouduct, means products you’re proud of. At any given time, they make over 100 products. Besides being an entrepreneur, Richie coaches and consults. He is happily married and has seven children including three fosters. His youngest passed away but would have just turned 13. [3:50] Years ago, Richie was in Nashville working with the Zig Ziglar team on a project. He got a text from the State of Hawaii that a missile was about to hit his house on Oahu. Then a text that said it was not a test. He called home and finally, his son answered the phone crying, “I love you, Dad.” He thought these were his last moments. It was all a mistake. It shook Richie into thinking about other events. [5:02] Richie’s brother-in-law, Gavin, his wife’s only brother, had been living with their family. He passed away in his sleep at age 21. Life is short. They started living their lives differently and thinking about time differently. Richie’s fourth son, Gavin, named after his uncle, was born. He had a cough. Doctors said he was fine, but it turned out he had pertussis. In the hospital, he slipped away in his mother’s arms. [6:25] In thinking of these two tragedies, Richie came up with Gavin’s Law: “Live to Start, Start to Live.” Take the ideas that press on your mind, and start living them. Too many people push ideas aside claiming they don’t have the education, time, or money to make them happen. [7:11] Richie worked with Stephen M.R. Covey while in his twenties, training executives. Richie thought he was too young for the job but it wasn’t about his experience, it was about continuous improvement and learning. [8:05] Richie speaks of some life events. His foster children returned to their biological mother. His wife had a stroke and lost her memory. The business deal that took him to Hawaii fell through. His son got hit crossing the road and was badly injured. He is OK now. His wife got her memory back. Richie was shouldering a lot when he changed his life’s trajectory by putting meaning behind these events. [9:52] With meaning, Richie was able to keep his faith and continue moving forward. His meaning was in asking himself, “How can I live better, not bitter?” When you get stuck on what happened, ask yourself how to assign positive meaning. Approach your work from the dream, not toward the dream. [10:57] Covey would say, begin with the end in mind. He didn’t say, to begin with, the means in mind. You can change goals, habits, and strengths, which are all just means to an end. The approach of working from the dream and not endlessly toward it is powerful. You can collapse time. It’s a different way of thinking, living, and working. It’s anti-time management. [12:54] Richie learned that grief is a tunnel, not a cave. Things happen that impact us and the way we see where we’re going and what we have to look forward to. Richie’s purpose is his family. He wants to create the ability to have availability. Purpose is having character, creating relationships of trust, and being available for his family, and those for whom he needs to be available when they need him most. [15:48] Richie describes work-life flexibility in three parts: ability, availability, and agility or autonomy. When you look at the world through autonomy, availability, and ability, you can see how free you are to make the choices that you do, including the consequences. [18:28] You have to value your time, not time your values. You can’t sacrifice what you love for success. When you sacrifice what you love for success, you get neither. Infuse your work with your values or you will get a hollow life with hollow hopes. You can have money and meaning. You’ve got to bake it in from the start. [21:17] The second industrial revolution in the late 1800s came from the concept of time-motion studies. It is now known as Taylorism or time management. It was designed to control and master every aspect of workers. It takes and squeezes everything out of the worker for as long as possible to the point of breaking. Time management is about who controls how you use your time. [22:32] Anti-Time Management gives you control over your time. In Time Management, others tell you what to do. In Anti-Time Management, you decide. There is a balance between the two approaches. A full calendar is an empty life. An empty calendar means you’re a leader; it’s been handled. [25:18] The recent pandemic was the first time in history that everyone was experiencing the same thing at the same time. Technology advanced. Companies and talent started learning what was possible. People started seeing the world in a new way. People started distrusting companies and news outlets more than ever before. Of course, the corporations want everyone to come back in! [26:38] Can productivity increase working from home? It depends on the situation. [26:47] The leadership quality of the future that will be the most important leadership quality is discernment. When you have these gaps in data and interpretation, we need leaders and talent who can use discernment to fill them in to decide the direction we’re going to go. [27:50] Never have the switching costs of moving from one company to another been lower. People change jobs every 4.6 years. The company that supports talent in working for their role in the home is going to be the winner. [29:02] As soon as flexibility becomes a corporate benefit to the employee, it’s not a benefit to the employee anymore, it’s a longer leash. [29:56] Discernment comes in asking better questions for better answers. Problems are multi-dimensional. With discernment, you can make decisions that no one else saw. Ask open-ended questions. You can develop discernment. Richie has great mentors and surrounds himself with good people that think differently. It helps to listen to great podcasts like The Leadership Podcast. [33:23] If a chick doesn’t break out of its egg, it dies. Fear, negative pride, and procrastination are like an eggshell that we must break through to be our authentic selves. If you had no fear, pride, or procrastination, what would you be capable of? How would you feel? What would you do? You would be you. We go around trying to avoid past traumas through our decisions. [36:10] Richie sees that people have fear at work. In corporations, there is 99% work signaling and 1% working. Jan cites Joel Peterson, former Chairman of JetBlue: “24 hours is more than enough time per day.” Richie talks about having a purpose or reason bigger than your fear. At the end of the day, you get what you want, tragedies aside. You’ve got to be willing to do the work. [40:17] Richie does not like the retirement mentality. It has destroyed generations of people. He wants people to talk about it, as he does in Anti-Time Management. The retirement mentality is to put off what you want to do until you retire. You can do what you want now and find a way to responsibly support yourself your whole life. [42:06] Richie talks about the marshmallow test. The original study indicated that a child willing to wait 15 minutes for a larger reward rather than accepting a smaller reward now, would do better in life. But later studies showed that was not true. Richie compares the patient child to the obedient employee, willing to wait for rewards. Waiting is great for some things, but not for everything. [44:36] Your lifestyle is changed by how you get paid. The way you operate, the way you work, and the way you do things in order to earn, dictate your life. If you can work in a way where more gets done in less time, it will expand your ability to live, create, and be hyper-productive. Consider your purpose, priority, projects, and payments: If your payments can align with your purpose, you’re set. [45:59] Closing quote: Remember, “Time is the coin of your life. It is the only coin you have, and only you can determine how it will be spent. Be careful lest you let other people spend it for you.” — Carl Sandburg   Quotable Quotes “I don’t think people work for work’s sake; I think we work for something else, and so I love to help people create that something else and find work to support it.” “I held him for a second and handed him to my wife; she was in a rocking chair and I had my hand on his heart and we sang lullabies. He slipped away. There’s nothing like having a human being die in your arms. There’s just nothing like that.” “I came up with what I call Gavin’s Law, which is ‘Live to start, start to live.’”  “People say they have 20 years’ experience when in reality they only have one year’s experience, repeated 20 times. … Let’s go to work.” — Stephen M.R. Covey, per Richie Norton “A lot of times [people] get stuck on what happened. … Ask, … ‘How can I assign positive meaning to this?’ Because … if you can, then you can figure out your approach. When you approach something from the dream and not endlessly toward it, you work entirely differently.” “Goals, habits, and strengths have become means, that have become ends unto themselves. They’re just means to an end. You can change the goals, habits, and strengths.” “The way time tippers in Anti-Time Management treat time is the way Marie Kondo treats clothes and closet space. We look at it with, ‘What brings us joy? What doesn’t? What served us? What hasn’t?’”  “You have to value your time, not time your values.”  “I believe that the leadership quality of the future that will be the most important leadership quality is discernment. … When you have these gaps, we need leaders and talent who can use discernment to fill them in to decide the direction we’re going to go.” “There are more opportunities than ever. … People are saying to me, ‘How do we get the talent back?’ … Just hold on. … Never in the history of the world have the switching costs of working in one job or another been lower.” “If you want to be … the leader that brings in other leaders, … now we have an opportunity to show love, to be egoless, to look for talent where we are supporting them in the role that they’re working for … the role in the home; those are the companies that are going to win.” “Any fear that happens, if you don’t have a bigger purpose or a bigger reason, why would you do something about it? People are scared of losing their jobs and they stay.” “Change the way you get paid — change your life.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Warwick Fairfax is the Founder of Crucible Leadership, a philosophical and practical approach for turning business and personal failures into the fuel for living life on purpose, in service to others. In this interview, Warwick shares the wisdom gained from losing his 150 year-old family business worth two-billion-dollars. He talks about how he became a person of intention and reflection. He discusses how we need to delve into our values and beliefs and live in alignment with them. He shares why character means more than credentials. Listen in for the ultimate lesson on working through adversity and the importance of resilience.   Key Takeaways [1:51] Warwick is a big cricket fan. He looks forward to watching a big upcoming Australian cricket tournament on an obscure cable channel in the U.S. [3:24] Warwick grew up in Australia in his family’s 150-year-old media business. It felt like it was his duty to go into the company. He went to Oxford, as his father had done. He worked on Wall Street, then got his MBA at Harvard Business School. He was seen by his parents as the heir apparent. He could not choose not to go into it. [5:38] Warwick believed the company wasn’t being well-run. In his youthful idealism, he launched a $2.25 billion takeover in August 1987. Things went wrong from the start. Other family members sold out and didn’t believe in Warwick or his vision. The company had an unsustainable level of debt. Warwick tried everything to keep it going. In 1990 they filed for bankruptcy. The company was sold. [7:20] Warwick’s wife is American and the couple moved to America in the early ’90s; they have been here ever since. Warwick’s crucible was devastating. In Crucible Leadership, a crucible is defined as a devastating setback or failure that fundamentally transforms your life. It was excruciating. How could he have been so dumb with a Harvard MBA? Warwick was in a bad pit of despair. He was at rock bottom. [9:40] Warwick was 26 years old when he launched the takeover. Blue-chip merchant bankers advised him not to do it. So he found less reputable bankers who told him, sure they can do it. They just didn’t tell him that it wouldn’t be sustainable. Warwick ignored the good advice and listened to the bad advice. [12:38] Warwick credits his stability with his Christian faith which has always been the center of his life. His crucible brought him closer to his beliefs. Warwick believes God loves us all unconditionally. He doesn’t need our stuff or our successes; we’re not our rank or position, we’re valued as human beings, beautifully and wonderfully made. Warwick’s faith is a cornerstone. [13:32] Warwick’s wife loves him unconditionally. Losing a couple of billion did not change that. In the ’90s, Warwick and his wife started having children. Warwick found meaningful work, such as doing finance at a local aviation services company and business analysis. The love of his family strengthened him. As he says on the podcast, Beyond the Crucible®, you’re not defined by your worst day. [14:40] You have to dig deeply into your fundamental beliefs and values; are you going to be defined by your biggest mistake or this biggest thing that’s happened to you? When something bad happens to you, you can either be angry and bitter at others or yourself for years, or you can say, “This is awful; this is unconscionable; what I did was stupid; OK, but I have a choice how I move on from here, how I live.” [15:51] Warwick’s essential problem was that he was living somebody else’s life. You’ve got to live your life and do what you were called to do, regardless of what laudable professions your parents have followed. You love your parents, but you don’t need to do what they did. You’ve got to be you.  [16:52] Failure can be helpful if it leads you to examine yourself. Often, vision comes out of the ashes of your crucible. The key is you’ve got to live your own life. You can’t inherit a vision. You’ve got to own it. You’ve got to feel like it’s your vision. That’s at the core of leading with uncompromised authenticity. [19:57] When you grow up in wealth, the crucibles are different but they’re there. Warwick always felt extremely stressed by the sense of obligation to go into the family business. Growing up, if Warwick got in legal trouble, he knew it would be front-page news. He could not afford to fail and embarrass his family. Life won’t always be perfect. You don’t need to look for failure or crucibles. [21:57] Crucible Leadership surveyed around 5,000 people asking how many of them had experienced crucibles of life-changing circumstances over their lives. It was 71%. There’s a 70% chance that people you know have gone through crucibles. Be forewarned before the battle. Have a game plan. [23:23] Over the years, Warwick has asked executives what their values and beliefs are and to what degree they are living in alignment with their values and beliefs. If they are out of alignment, he asks, would they rather change their values and beliefs, or change how they live? They always want to get in alignment with their values and beliefs. Ask the question. People often miss that they are not aligned. [25:35] If coaches don’t ask their executive clients about values and beliefs, nobody may ask and the clients may never think about it. They may go through life asking “Why is life so difficult? Why am I having all these crucibles?” Well, it may be self-inflicted. Maybe living out of alignment with their values and beliefs is part of the reason. [26:23] Warwick offers “must-dos” to lead through a crisis. First, your team must feel heard. That doesn’t mean you do everything they say. Show empathy, appreciate their concern, and explain why you are going in a different direction. If they feel heard, they are OK with a different decision, as long as it is not a moral difference. Your team should know you care about them as people. [28:47] If you listen to a team, and you’ve never taken input from any of them in 10 years, just saying “I hear you,” is not going to fly. At some point, you’ve got to take some input from your team, or listening is artificial. You need to know your blind spots. If you’ve got bright people on your team, you’ve got to trust them. If they all agree on something else, there’s a good chance that they’re right. Be humble. [30:34] Ego stops us from doing things that every business book advises. Every Executive coach will say, “Trust your team.” Because of ego, we don’t do it, and it leads to business failure or suboptimal performance. [31:39] It’s not just about getting to know people but about caring. You can’t teach people to care. If you don’t feel that people are worthwhile and deserve to be cared for, Warwick advises you to step away; resign. Let some other man or woman step into your job who can do a better job. If you have people on your team who demonstrate they don’t care for others, let them go and do damage somewhere else. [35:20] Warwick states that hiring people that don’t care is bad for long-term company performance. If you don’t provide a caring, nurturing environment, you will not hire good people. It’s as hard to hire good people as it has been in the last hundred years. If you believe in your company’s long-term performance, you’ll hire people who care. [36:33] Warwick would rather hire someone who cares than someone with the highest academic credentials. Their team will stick with that leader who cares. Hire for character. It’s the right economic choice and business choice. It’s the right ethical and values choice. [38:44] Warwick reflects on what he as an executive coach might have told his 26-year-old self, but he says it wouldn’t have helped. He would not have been moved from his plan at 26. Sometimes things happen and you have to go through them to learn the lesson. [39:56] In general, with young people, Warwick would coach them to make sure they understand their values, ethics, and beliefs. He would ask how what they are doing serves their values, ethics, and beliefs. People following a calling in line with their values and beliefs don’t stop at roadblocks. If they need help, they ask for it. [40:45] Warwick will sometimes ask his team to reassure him before a presentation because he knows the material, but his emotions tell him he might fail. A strong, confident person is willing to admit their vulnerabilities and ask for help, at an appropriate level of sharing. It doesn't make you less of a leader, admitting you’re a little bit nervous. [42:33] When you go through a crucible, don’t waste it. Learn the lessons. Have After-Action Reports. Learn to do what fits your values, beliefs, and wiring better. [45:39] Warwick shares his views on business valuation. Executives often wrap their identity in what they do. They wonder if they sell low if that makes them worth less as a person. After they sell, at any price, what are they, since they are not Joe Business-owner? Don’t let your business identity stop you from making a rational business decision. [47:48] Don’t just have an exit strategy; have a life strategy after selling the business. There are many worthwhile options, such as heading a non-profit, donating your time, creating a new start-up, or becoming a mentor, advisor, or angel investor. Close one chapter and start another chapter. Know your why. You’ve sold your company, not your identity. [50:24] It’s hard not to see your identity wrapped up in what you do. It’s easy to say; it’s really hard. It’s normal to feel pain when you sell a business. Jan cites Clayton Christensen, “How will you measure your life?” [51:26] Closing quote: Remember, “If there is no struggle, there is no progress.” — Frederick Douglass   Quotable Quotes “It was my sacred duty to go into the family business because we didn’t just produce widgets, we produced something that was of service to the nation of Australia. … This sense of duty was so hard-wired in me, I could not not go into it.” — Warwick “I’m pretty good at giving grace to others; pretty bad at giving grace to myself. … I have a tendency to think if there's a problem in the world, it’s my fault. I tend not to blame others.”  “They said, ‘Warwick, the numbers don’t add up, don’t do it.’ Well, that wasn’t what I wanted to hear.”  “When you go through a crucible, it either draws you closer to your verities and beliefs or further away.” “We say this all the time; we have our own podcast, Beyond the Crucible®, ‘You’re not defined by your worst day.’”  “You don’t always have a choice about what happened to you but you can choose how you look at your life, moving forward. That’s the essence of beginning to get out of the pit of despair and beyond your crucible.”  “My dad was sort of the intellectual guy that would have been a better philosophy professor. He was not a business guy at all. I mean, John Fairfax, my great-great-grandfather was a business guy but those genes had long since faded by the time it got to me, fifth generation.”  “The key is you’ve got to live your own life. … It’s great to love your parents but you can’t inherit a vision. You’ve got to own it. You’ve got to feel like it’s your vision. So that’s probably at the core of leading with uncompromised authenticity.”  “Unless you ask the question, they don’t even realize they’re living out of alignment with their values and beliefs because they don’t know what [they are]. We, as coaches, can really help our clients by just asking those questions. If we don’t ask, nobody may ask.”  “Typically founders are not very good general managers. They’re good entrepreneurs but they’re just different skills, so be humble enough to trust your team. It sounds so simple and so easy but ego gets in the way and that’s the problem.” “Every executive coach will say, ‘Trust your team.’ This is not new, what I’m saying. But because of ego, people don’t do it. It’s so sad; frankly, it’s stupid. It will lead to business failure or suboptimal performance.”  “I believe that hiring people that don’t care is bad for profitability and bad for long-term performance of the company. Maybe not short-term earnings per share, but long-term, because people like to work for people who care.”  “Young people increasingly have choices and if you don’t provide a caring, nurturing environment, you won’t hire them. It’s as hard today to find good people as it’s ever been in the last maybe 100 years. … If you believe in … your company, hire people who care.”  “If you’re following a calling that you’re passionate about that’s in line with your values and beliefs when you hit those roadblocks, you won’t stop. And when you do hit them, … a brave man or woman asks for help.”  “You’re more than just your title. You’re more than just a nameplate on your door. If that’s who you think you are, then that’s very tragic because you’re set up for misery and a bit of a fall. So, there’s some soul work, in the broad sense of the word, that you’ve got to do.”    Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

Lieutenant General Mark Schwartz retired from the U.S. Army after 33 years. A career Special Forces Officer, Mark served in a multitude of command and staff assignments, including the United States Security Coordinator of the Israel-Palestinian Authority. In this interview, Mark reveals the importance of having the right advocates in your corner. Mark shares his advice for young leaders, women leaders, and others on being intentional and deliberate with how they approach their careers.     Key Takeaways [3:10] Mark is pleased to be back in his home state of Colorado. Now that he is retired and has the opportunity to speak to civil society, he is focused on advocacy for women in leadership. [4:28] Strategic influence and influence at the local level come from having the right advocates in your corner. Mark talks about the effects that suspending diplomatic relations between the Trump administration and the Palestinian Authority had in 2019. President Abbas had lost his most important ally and his influence waned, while Netanyahu’s influence increased. [10:12] Mark learned from his time in Israel that everyone wants a leader who is ethically sound and has the character they want to emulate. It’s all about the people you have the privilege to represent and lead. If you’re not an example they’re proud of, people leave the organization and move on to find other leaders they want to work for and work with. [13:38] Politics has entered the business conversation. In the military, it is necessary to support the administration, even though the oath is to the U.S. Constitution, not to an administration. In the military, you can voice your opposition at every election. Mark recommends following thbusiness practice: use your voice at the ballot box, not at work, to avoid some real challenges in the workplace. [17:58] Loosely-bonded political alliances are essential. Mark illustrates that point with his first joint task at NATO leading the ground planning for a NATO mission expansion in Afghanistan. It was a very educational experience to learn the importance of inclusion. It applies also to businesses. Not everybody is going to get what they want but the voice of the collective body is powerful. [22:33] Empathy at the staff and HQ levels for your coalition partners is an important aspect of success. You are representing your nation’s interests, but you respect the caveats and interests of others. [26:18] In speaking of developing leadership, Mark describes an event along the Pakistani border that turned a situation from tactical to strategic quickly, for over six months. Mark was on mid-tour leave, but he called his commander to see if he was needed. He was told that someone he had helped develop had the situation in hand. The young operations officer managed a report to generals remarkably well. [29:27] Mark shares a model for advocacy for women in the military and business. The talent between men and women is similar. Merit is the most important factor. If you aren’t consciously creating opportunities for fair and equal competition for promotion or strategic-level leadership, you let some of your best folks go. Consider the propensity to serve. Keep the standards consistent. [33:51] People appreciate candid and honest feedback. All candidates are not equal. If someone is not qualified, you owe them that feedback to let them know why. Some preconceptions still exist. On one occasion, Mark explained to a female staff member that he was going to a well-qualified female executive officer to make an important statement to the command. [36:38]  When the Berlin wall came down in 1989, Mark thought that peace was almost here. There are still conflicts. Success against conflict comes through will and resolve, as Ukraine is showing the world. Mark talks about the Taliban taking over Afghanistan. As a nation, we need to understand the psyche of a country and determine what is achievable. [40:10] Mark discusses negotiations between Palestinians and Israelis, and why the Palestinians’ determination not to participate in any normalization dialog didn’t help them. Mark sees opportunities to work privately to create a better environment for the civil society of both Israelis and Palestinians. Mark offers suggestions of steps to take to get on track to reduce the levels of violence and tensions. [45:23] Mark’s advice for young businesspeople with leadership aspirations is to focus on doing the best you can on the job you have. Build your core competencies. After three to five years, make your desire to take on an entry-level leadership responsibility known to your next-level leadership. That could lead to getting a mentor or sponsor. Management should be on the lookout for bright women and men. [47:03] After you get your first leadership position, you will run into a lot of firsts. You will want a mentor or advocate because you don’t always go to your boss for help in dealing with things. [47:53] If you desire to be a leader and develop talent in your organization, you’ve got to identify early those individuals that have the potential to mentor you. The higher in the organization you are, the more important it is to be mentored. As you move up to mid-management, that is when most women stop rising in the organization. The C-Suite needs to watch for women with merit to mentor. [50:22] Mark is very grateful not only to have had the opportunity to serve as an American soldier but also to have had the support of the American people throughout his career. That support is highly appreciated by everybody who has served and who continues to serve. [52:37] Closing quote: “We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.” — George Orwell   Quotable Quotes “If you don’t have the right advocates in your corner, it’s very hard to have any influence.” — Mark “It’s unfortunate when situations play out where the military is viewed as being politicized. As a senior leader in the military, it certainly disturbed me to see.” — Mark “If you’re truly doing your job in terms of talent and leader development, your responsibility is to advocate for those that you see potential in and create opportunities and provide advice, counsel, and sponsorship for those that deserve it.” — Mark “There’s no other way [besides DEI that] we’re going to balance equality across the workforce at every level.” — Mark “If you desire to be a leader and you desire to develop talent in your organization, you’ve got to identify early those individuals that have that potential. And as you get more senior, it becomes all the more important.” — Mark   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

Hasard Lee is an F-35 pilot in the U.S. Air Force Reserve, and has flown 82 combat missions. He has the distinction of being the only fighter pilot to employ two different types of jets in combat on the same day. Hasard is a content creator with one of the largest defense channels on YouTube - with over 54 million views and a reach of 290 million people. Hasard has a book coming out in May 2023, The Art of Clear Thinking: A Stealth Fighter Pilot’s Timeless Rules for Making Tough Decisions. In this conversation, Hasard shares the rules for making tough decisions.     Key Takeaways [2:44] Hasard joined the Reserves in 2020. He still flies once in a while. Most of his time is devoted to writing his upcoming book. Hasard’s father was a physicist in the Department of Energy so they moved from Livermore, CA, to Los Alamos, NM, and Washington D.C. for his job. Hasard went to his first air show when he was five. He has pictures of himself in an F-15 with a helmet on. [3:59] Hasard got the flying bug when he was five. He memorized all the jets and was passionate about them. When he was 12, a friend of a friend of his father’s took him up in a Cessna 152 and Hasard got a little bit of yoke time. After that, he was hooked and he knew he wanted to fly in the Air Force. He started taking steps in high school to make it happen. [6:11] The happy place for fighter pilots is in the cockpit, flying. But developing systems for training fighter pilots on the F-35 is one of the best things Hasard has ever done. The F-35 is the most expensive weapons system in history and will probably fly into the 2070s. The training tech included simulators on laptops, VR goggles, and high-end simulators, all setting pilots on the right path for the next decades. [9:03] Joining pilots of different jets into one program is like a merger. And most mergers fail! Hasard contrasts the competencies of A-10 pilots for close air support for troops on the ground with the F-16 pilots that do much of what the F-35 pilots do, and the F-22 and F-15C pilots. Part of Hasard’s job was to create the syllabus, building from the lowest common denominator of what the pilots knew. [11:54] Hasard planned his book to be entertaining and to incorporate some of the principles he learned as a fighter pilot. Most chapters have a story from Hasard’s time flying and a story from history or the business world. He breaks it down through ACE: Assess, Choose, and Execute. That’s how fighter pilots make decisions. It’s developed from John Boyd’s OODA loop: Observe, Orient, Decide, Act. [12:44] Hasard explains assessing and prioritizing the information that comes before you using laws of power: exponential growth, diminishing returns, and knees in the curve; how to make decisions based on expected values; and execution. The number one thing is being prepared. Start with visualization, or “chair flying” from the beginning to the end in your mind, and plan how to handle contingencies. [18:07] How do you learn to evaluate the odds? With debriefs. A pilot will go fly for an hour and then debrief that flight for two to six hours and pick through everything that has gone right and wrong to sharpen their mental model and make it more in line with reality. Check your ego at the door. Call everything out. [19:55] This needs to be done better in the civilian world. Spend time with your team and write down lessons learned after every project in some sort of document that everybody can reference. After every flight, Hasard writes down in a little notebook three things he could have done better. Then, the next time he has a similar flight, he reads those notes to prepare. Leaders: are you doing this enough? [22:43] We’re all leaders. When it comes down to being a good leader, you need four things: Competence in your job and a level of competence in jobs that report to you, Caring, Conviction in the vision of what you do, and in the boundaries you will not cross, and Clarity for solving problems. With these four characteristics, you can get a team to move quickly in a certain direction. [25:21] Everything is predicated on how well you sleep. You perform better and make better decisions. It’s hard for fighter pilots to get enough sleep because they fly at all hours. A noise machine in the bedroom helps. Sleep is an exponential benefit to what you do. It will help every aspect of your life from your relationships to how well you see the world to solve problems. At least eight hours is optimal. [28:25] Self-care, such as nutrition, sleep, hydration, physical therapy, and psychology are being emphasized now in pilot training. The evidence is getting out there. It just needs to be a priority. Generation Z is prepared for it by not smoking. [31:30] Being a fighter pilot is not a one v. one cage match or Top Gun with four aircraft. Pilots work with hundreds of aircraft operating together. They deal with the space domain, the cyberspace domain, people on the ground, and aircraft ISR (intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance). It’s a force package of 100-plus assets working to create the best team possible. And the enemy is just as smart. [33:06] Advice for younger people who want to be fighter pilots: You don’t need to have perfect vision anymore! You can have Lasik or fly with contact lenses or glasses. If you want to be a fighter pilot, apply! [33:44] Hasard has noticed that in the military, everyone has similar values, along a range. The business world is more of an open ocean and you have to be discerning to figure out where a person is coming from and their intentions, and how well they execute. When you hire someone, they haven’t been through OCS or the Academy and pilot training. They don’t think like the military. Hiring is a challenge. [36:35] Hasard has a “Never Again story.” When he was a lieutenant learning to fly an F-16 he was doing high-aspect BFM with a colonel with 25 years of experience. Hasard wanted to impress the colonel. He pulled up to vertical at 245 knots — six knots too slow! He fell out of control. He was able to get the jet under control at 2,000 feet. He learned small changes in input can make very large changes in output. [42:06] Closing quote: Remember, “Clarity affords focus.” — Thomas Leonard   Quotable Quotes “There are three important power laws you have to know: Exponential Growth, … Diminishing Return, … and Knees in the Curve.” — Hasard “If you can slow down to less than about 250 knots [before ejecting], you drastically increase your chance of survival because speed behaves exponentially.” — Hasard “As soon as you put on your helmet, you lose 20 I.Q. points. And what that means is you don’t rise to the level of your expectations, you fall to the level of your preparation. … You have to be prepared … in a training environment even more difficult than combat.” — Hasard “If I could talk about all the benefits of sleep without saying it was sleep and just saying it was a pill, I think I’d probably be a billionaire. Because everything is predicated on how well you sleep. You perform better …  you make better decisions.” — Hasard “[Falling in an out-of-control jet] was a big eye-opening story for me that small changes in input can have exponentially large changes in the output.” — Hasard   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: The Art of Clear Thinking: A Stealth Fighter Pilot’s Timeless Rules for Making Tough Decisions (Coming in May 2023)

Whitney Johnson is the Co-Founder and CEO of Disruption Advisors, a talent development company. Whitney is a globally-recognized thought leader. author, keynote speaker, executive coach, consultant, and a popular LinkedIn Learning instructor. In this conversation, Whitney discusses how musicality has lessons for the business world, and the wide applications of the S-Curve.   Key Takeaways [2:35] At her daughter’s prompting during the pandemic, Whitney and her family started watching Korean dramas. The family became obsessed with them. Whitney now studies Korean for two minutes a day on Duolingo. Whitney describes the characteristics of Korean dramas. [5:22] Whitney majored in music, studying classical piano and jazz. Because of her musical background, when she structures a keynote, a book, or a podcast, she looks for musicality and a musical structure to it. Musical structure and musicality inform the work she does. Also, as an experienced accompanist, she knows how to be second, allowing her to be a good interviewer, and as a coach, to listen well. [7:04] Brett Mitchell, the former conductor of the Colorado Symphony, said that music is what happens between the notes. Whitney discusses pauses relating to leadership and cites Clayton Christiansen, saying that partway through his career, Clayton Christiansen started a practice of praying before teaching a class. Once he started that practice, he started to have a significant impact on his students. [8:42] Whitney suggests that before you speak, have a meeting, or a coaching session, you pause and think about the person you’re about to speak to, and how to convey to the person that they matter to you, that is an element of leadership. [10:33] Wayne Muller, author of Sabbath, pointed out the pauses in Martin Luther King’s exclamation, “Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!” [11:41] Gino Wickman, in The EOS Life, recommends entrepreneurs take sabbaticals. One of Jim’s clients just took a sabbatical and reported that stepping back and taking a break allowed them to reflect and then grow. [12:20] Whitney has a LinkedIn Learning class, Grow Yourself, Grow Your Leaders, and a book, Smart Growth. Whitney’s view is that we are wired to grow. Virtuous growth is growing in such a way that everyone around you grows as well. She believes that human growth is unbounded. [13:23] Sociologist Everett Rogers applied the S-Curve to the study of how quickly innovation is adopted. Working with Clayton Christiansen, Whitney realized she could apply the S-Curve to individual change and growth. Growth comes in three stages: slow (launch), fast (sweet spot), and slow (master place). Every time you start a new role or a new job, you go through the curve. This is covered in Smart Growth. [14:45] Whitney’s LinkedIn course focuses on how to create the conditions where people around you can grow, with the resources they need, and how they can feel connected to what they’re doing and the people they’re working with. Whitney also talks about building resilience and nurturing people. If you can do all those things, you’re creating conditions wherein the people around you can grow. [16:59] Whitney makes the underlying assumption that if you will grow yourself then, by the contagion effect, the people around you will grow. Then, by default, your business will grow. [17:49] You can manage your organization as a portfolio of curves. The people at the curve’s launch point will need the most support. They will also have a fresh perspective, opening the door to innovation. You want about 20% of the people in your organization to be new, 60% to be in the sweet spot, and 20% in master, ready for a new challenge. This is a good distribution for innovation. [20:10] De-prioritize the things you do really well that somebody else could do. Whitney gives an example from a client. If you stop doing the things you should delegate to others, you will have time to do the things only you can do, and you get out of the way for them to work on the steep part of the S-Curve. [23:06] Every organization needs to have, as part of their vision, growing human beings and helping them reach their potential. The vision starts with the founders, and as people join the organization, they begin to co-create the vision with the founders. Everyone helps each other grow. In the most fluid, powerful organizations, everyone contributes to the creation of the vision. [26:56] Whitney addresses growth pre-pandemic, in-pandemic, and post-pandemic. A lot of adaptation and resilience have been required. When people are under stress, they go to default stress behaviors. You need to make sure people work together and not against each other. People want to grow but are not always sure how to do it. This goes back to Whitney’s course, Grow Yourself, Grow Your Leaders. [28:39] Whitney asks Jan and Jim for their thoughts on getting people to work together under stress. Jim states that when people are stressed they need time and space to solve their problems. People are pausing to figure out how to work together. People need time and space to get up to game speed. Executives are not paid to be busy. Pausing is a good way to grow by asking yourself tough questions. [31:35] Whitney has an assessment that she administers to clients. It includes seven accelerants of growth. The one that ranks the lowest is frequently “Step back to grow.” People are not taking time to pause and reflect. Whitney quotes Tiffany Shlain who asks, “What if we thought of ‘rest’ as technology because the promise of technology is to make you more productive?” [34:17] Egon Zehnder surveyed 1,000 executives whether they strongly agreed that to transform your organization you need to transform yourself. Before the pandemic, 18% of executives agreed. After the pandemic, 805 of the executives agreed. The only way you have the moral authority to ask people to change is if you, yourself, are changing. The fundamental unit of change is the individual at every level. [37:52] Whitney lists some people that inspire her, and why: Rashika Tolshan, who wrote about the Queen of England passing away, Brené Brown, Musician Jacob Collier, author Richie Norton, and NFL QB Steve Young. Each of them inspired Whitney with their visions of growth. [41:35] When Whitney was making her list of influential people, her default was to go to all men. She had to make sure she included some women. She had to be very mindful and deliberate to determine who is actually influencing her and she wanted a diversity of perspectives. Jim highlights the leadership lesson of intentionality. [42:49] Whitney’s audience homework: On the topic of pausing and resting, listen to these two episodes of Whitney’s Step Back to Grow podcast: Episode 139 with filmmaker Tiffany Schlain and Episode 180. Don’t avoid taking a pause to rest. [43:57] Closing quote: Remember, “It’s all to do with the training: you can do a lot if you’re properly trained.” — Queen Elizabeth II   Quotable Quotes “Because of being a musician, I think of things in a musical sort of way. When I’m structuring a keynote; … a book; … a podcast, there’s always a sense of, ‘Is there a musicality to it; is there a musical structure to it?’” — Whitney “I wrote a piece about the importance of taking a break, that you needed to rest because the ability to rest was going to allow you to recharge so that you could then move forward.” — Whitney “For me, growth is our default setting. We’re wired to grow.” — Whitney “Every time we start something new, we’re on a new S-Curve. There are three stages. There’s the launch point that feels slow, there’s the sweet spot, … where growth is fast, … and … the master place, where growth is … slow.” — Whitney “People who are successful are intentional. It doesn’t just fall in your lap. … Successful people are intentional people and [a high] level intentionality is something to be admired and something for people listening to this podcast to take away.” — Jim   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Tiffany  

Audrey Darley Welch heads up the partner program for Darley Defense, W.S. Darley & Company’s military distribution business and its largest division. Her team manages the company’s partnerships with key suppliers of tactical and fire-fighting products and services. In this episode, Audrey shares lessons she learned from working in various industries and now at Darley. She tells how she adapts to working in a male-oriented field, how she applies sports metaphors to her team, and what she learned from bad assumptions.    Key Takeaways [2:09] Audrey originally had intended to become a high school math teacher and volleyball coach. But she didn’t realize you had to be a calculus whiz to teach algebra! She decided to go into finance, instead. She is still passionate about sports and coaching. [3:01] Darley, a family-owned business of four generations, has a family employment policy that requires family members to work outside the business for a period before joining Darley. Audrey had not planned to work at Darley. She started a banking career after college. After three years, she considered joining Darley. For a year she went to board meetings and shareholder meetings and researched Darley. [3:53] When Audrey decided she wanted to join Darley, she wrote an application essay. The open position was a dealer development person for Darley’s legacy pump division. She got the job and spent a year working in that area but it was not the ideal position for her background in finance and relationship management. [4:28] Audrey was interested in getting exposure to different areas of the business. She found a position in supplier relationship management in the Defense Division. It was a job she was weel-qualified for and she has been working in the supplier relationship function for the last seven years. [5:40] Working at a large bank before coming to Darley allowed Audrey to see how big companies do things, their policies, and their structure. She was able to see what her strengths were at work. The largest thing she learned was the discipline and accountability of being part of a professional organization. [7:03] Audrey feared before joining Darley that she would have to follow her father’s leadership style. He is an extrovert and Audrey is introverted. Audrey’s advice to the next generation would be to be natural. She also advises the next generation to find out what fresh ideas the business needs to set it up for success, respecting the secret sauce, the family. Darley has had 300% growth in the last five years. [10:01] Audrey doesn’t have a problem with being an offspring, the fourth generation, or being a woman in a male-dominated field. She works well with her male cousins and men in the industry. She goes on pheasant hunts, fishing, and to the Wisconsin supper clubs with the men, so being a woman didn’t make a difference to her career. Audrey describes a Wisconsin supper club, for those unfamiliar. [12:34] Audrey talks about one’s personal responsibility to pursue professional development. Especially in the family business environment, it’s all about initiative. She doesn’t expect her generation to be nurtured in the business. Each person needs to pave their own way. Audrey recommends a career map with a “From-To” statement and figuring out what kind of experiences you need to get there. [15:26] Does Audrey want to be President? At Darley, there is no job description for President; currently, the CEO, President, and Chairman are all the same person. So Audrey went ahead and developed a job description for the President as she sees it and as she thinks she would do well in that role, and where they can split off CEO responsibilities. She finds those types of exercises to be very refreshing. [17:25] Soon, the fourth generation will get together to talk about all the positions and get clarity on succession planning. Everybody at Darley has worn a lot of different hats, and it’s time to separate their roles, especially of the senior leadership team. [18:51] In a mid-level role like Audrey’s, leadership is tough. She has five direct reports and will soon have six. The company is trying to scale, with top-level goals, and every team is checking that their goals align with the company goals, but managers may not realize they do not align with cross-functional team goals. Audrey shares a misstep she had made with goals that impacted the Sales Team’s goals. [22:11] Audrey presented to senior management in a virtual meeting the initiative she had developed. When she heard “crickets,” she knew something was wrong. She started getting pushback from sales and business development. Her incorrect assumptions had damaged her trust level across departments. Sales reps started having friction with account managers. Get feedback! Silence is not compliance! [24:46] Audrey ties a lot of her leadership to sports and the volleyball she played in school. She was the setter in volleyball, setting her teammates up for success. The setter is usually named the captain of the team because they’re running the plays. At work, she considers herself the captain of her team, and the coach. Audrey is concerned about perfecting the fundamentals. [25:46] Audrey’s volleyball coach had her do 1,000 repetitions against the wall before coming out for a game to start setting people up in the warm-up. She uses repetition at Darley, focusing on strategies and core competencies. [27:30] Sports metaphors may not work for everybody. Audrey says something that applies to almost all sports is never to sacrifice form for speed. That’s how you get injured. Slow down to speed up. [28:45] Government contract bids need to be submitted within 72 hours. Audrey says that cutting corners on supplier due diligence can cause problems. Darley’s core value is integrity, and speed is not integrity. Never bypass your core values. [31:54] Audrey tells how she achieves work-life balance. She has her priorities straight. Even so, when she chooses personal over business or business over personal, sometimes there is some guilt felt. Her husband helps. Figure out work patterns with your partner or whoever is helping you with all this and get into a routine. [34:38] Audrey does not think remote work will go away. Audrey prefers hybrid to all-remote. About 60% of companies are offering remote work. It’s not a fad. Audrey values in-person collaboration. She values in-person collaboration time in the office. That can be managed in two-to-three days. Remote doesn’t work for every position. Audrey’s quality of life has drastically improved through hybrid work. [37:08] Audrey comments on what veterans can do to have a successful transition to business life. Veterans at Darley are very aligned with and connected to the mission, which catapults their careers forward. The biggest challenge is understanding the business world. You need to be flexible and wear different hats. You may be uncomfortable. Getting an MBA before coming to Darley helps a lot. [40:21] Three points that will help anyone transitioning into the business world: 1. Be curious, 2. Be adaptable, and 3. Figure out ways to be confident without knowing everything about everything. [41:04] Audrey’s closing thought for listeners: Build your sounding board early. Besides joining forums, having mentors, and tapping the knowledge of the board of directors, it is most important to participate in a peer group to help you get where you want to go. [42:37] Closing quote: Remember, “There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that is your own self.” —Aldous Huxley   Quotable Quotes “I found out that I’m very detail-oriented and I do like relationship management on the customer side.” — Audrey “Are we setting up the future of the business for success with the way that we have it? Right now, we’ve had 300% growth over the last five years.” — Audrey “When it comes to building trust and relationships, I’m out there doing the pheasant hunts, and the fishing, and the beer-drinking, and the supper clubs in Wisconsin up near our plant, and all that. So I don’t think [being a woman] really did play a role.” — Audrey “I ran through, ‘This is what it means for the division, this is what it means for sales.’ I was trying to highlight all the good things that would come from an initiative like this. … It was like ‘crickets.’ … Sometimes not hearing anything at all can be a message.” — Audrey “[Sports] is where it all started. And I still do, I tie a lot of it back to sports, or even just fitness, in general. I was a setter in volleyball, very much the quarterback or the point guard equivalent. You’re setting people up for success.” — Audrey “You won’t hear me say I don’t value that in-person collaboration time.” — Audrey “We’re a distributor and we sell a lot of different types of products, we call on a lot of different types of customers. … They may not feel as comfortable. … Everybody’s bought into the importance of the equipment we sell.” — Audrey   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

Dr. Marianne Lewis is renowned for her research on the paradoxes of leadership and is coauthor, with Wendy Smith, of Both/And Thinking: Embracing Creative Tensions to Solve Your Greatest Problems. The conversation covers how we can learn to think about paradoxes, and why tension is necessary for balance - and to achieve innovation.       Key Takeaways [2:14] Marianne grew up with a father in academia. She was determined not to be a professor in academia. In her rebellion, she came to the Midwest to find her space. And she loves Cincinnati and is absolutely in academia, studying leaders. [3:51] Marianne addresses why “both/and” thinking is essential for emotional balance and rational behavior. [5:25] Marianne refers to James March’s teachings about the complexity and messiness of the world we live in and bounded rationality, meaning there’s just so much one can take in. We do what we need to do to get by in a busy, complicated, messy world that pushes us toward looking at our tensions and dilemmas as “either/or” trade-offs. [7:08] A few years ago, Marianne and her team built a psychological “instrument” they call a paradox mindset. They’ve studied thousands of people in multiple languages. From their observations, it appears that the way we think is learned. Your ability to manage tensions appears to do with how often you deal with tensions and how much you try to embrace and work through them. More study is to come. [9:45] Paradox thinking and systems thinking are related. A “both/and” thinker tends to think more in systems, looking for interactions and feedback loops. Systems thinking involves looking at complexity in context and in new ways. “Both/and” thinking adds to looking for the value in tensions as you work through the complexity to find more creative and more lasting solutions to your problems. [11:18] There are tensions between things and between systems, but the important tensions are between individuals. Marianne has worked in this field for 25 years, 20 of them with Wendy. They found three factors that intensify the experience of tensions: Change. Today is becoming tomorrow faster. Scarcity. As soon as you feel that you’re slicing the pie thinner, you feel tension. Plurality. A multiplicity of stakeholders with pressures that differ. [12:13] We’re in the perfect storm of change, scarcity, and plurality. We are living in tensions in our lives, organizations, and society. The tensions are interwoven across levels and facets. [13:48] Vicious cycles reinforce errors in our thinking. Marianne talks about three vicious cycles: Going down the rabbit hole, or deep ruts of behavior. Overcorrecting in the opposite direction. Polarization. Shouting, diminishing each other, and doing anything but listening. [15:47] Get out of the trench by asking, “What are they thinking? What are they seeing? Can we learn?” [16:43] Virtuous cycles are reinforcing tendencies that help us navigate tensions. Marianne sees two patterns of virtuous cycles. One is Creative Integration, taking the best of two extremes, such as radical innovation and efficiency, and putting them together creatively. Marianne compares this to a mule, stronger than a horse and smarter than a donkey. Creative integration is rare. [18:13] The second pattern of virtuous cycles, Dynamic Balancing, is more common. Marianne compares this to tightrope walking; looking to the horizon while dealing with the present tensions. Don’t panic in tense moments; keep moving forward. You’ll learn as you do it. [21:01] Help people understand why embracing tensions and creative friction fosters opportunities for creativity, learning, and older innovations, moving forward. Marianne tells of Paul Polman when he was CEO of Unilever, who said Unilever would double its profits by reducing its environmental footprint. On every issue he discussed, he wanted to have tension on the team. He was provocative and purposeful. [24:22] “Either/or” and “both/and” thinking are both about decision-making. Uncertainty is potentially paralyzing for “either/or” thinkers. You don’t know what the right solution is and the right solution tomorrow may be different. But the point is to keep making decisions, having the confidence and the humility to know you can move forward, whatever the results are. Keep in mind your higher purpose. [26:06] The boundary around the tensions is what holds the elements together. Marianne is seeing an existential crisis in academia and business that strikes her as a lack of meaning. We need to be pushing harder on finding that boundary. [26:43] Is work a transaction of time for money, or does it have meaning and legacy? You serve other people and make their lives better. Leaders need to create an environment where people want to come and bring their best. If a company has a bunch of people in transaction mode, Jan puts it on the leaders. Marianne says it’s key for that leader to tap into why they are there. Make the transactions matter. [29:02] Marianne addresses the role of leaders to help us out of the malaise in our society, even in this wonderful world. First, ask why we feel that malaise. Richard Farson wrote of the paradox of rising expectations. At the lowest state, there’s no hope. As people realize the potential, as hope grows, the bar raises and people see what could be! The frustrations and protests rise. [30:20] The frustration should be encouraging to leaders. If your people are silent, either they don’t care or they are so far below the water that they don’t have time or energy to complain. The complaining is because people see that we could be ever better. The world is so polarized because we have very different views of how we get there. You get turf warfare between different sides with different ideas. [31:09] If we could agree that we all want a better world. There are lots of paths to get there. How do we listen and learn from each other? We need leaders, ourselves included, to make sure that raised bar says it’s about wanting a better world. It’s not about the how, it’s about what we want. Let’s have good debates and get the friction in the room and think about how we get there. [31:54] Sam Walker, author of The Captain Class, told about a study he did of the most successful sports teams in history. They had captains with unique characteristics that helped build the teams. They dealt with task conflicts and process conflicts but avoided personal conflicts at all costs. When people focus on the task or process, it is productive, not a personal attack. [33:20] Marianne discusses two sides of conflict: the destructive and the empowering. The difference is your focus: the person, feeling the emotion, or the task, the higher purpose, what you want to get done. When you focus on the person, things escalate in a way that is not productive. Some of us are going to have to model the way with different leadership styles. [34:31] Marianne is grateful every day to have a colleague like Wendy Smith. One of the reasons their partnership has been so productive is that they are really different. They have all sorts of differences but they found a lot of similarities. They want a better world, they believe in learning and innovation. While they were writing their book, they found themselves in many late-night deep discussions on challenges. [38:37] Marianne’s challenge to listeners: Start paying more attention to the questions you are asking. Are you asking “either/or” questions? Those questions immediately limit your options. Start asking more “both/and” questions, such as, “How do we make this world more sustainable and more productive?” [39:35] Closing quote: Remember, “How wonderful that we have met with a paradox. Now we have some hope of making progress!” — Niels Bohr   Quotable Quotes “We tend to define things by what they’re not. We think in terms of contrast. … You’re either ‘A’ or ‘Not-A.’ So we think in terms of opposites, even if those opposites aren’t actually direct contradictions. … The way we think … influences the way we feel.” — Marianne “We’re wired to have these heuristic shortcuts, these cognitive biases. … What we feel is completely logical but it might not be.” — Jim “People who have a greater paradox mindset, especially when they’re working or living in a world of tensions, … are more productive, more creative, and happier; more satisfied. … They see tensions as opportunities.” — Marianne “We use the analogy of a mule, which is stronger than a horse and smarter than a donkey.” — Marianne “I think about friction in two ways: 1. It can produce drag, or 2. It can produce traction.” — Jan “One way to think about how you hold together your tensions is [to ask] ‘What do you want this to be in the broader world?’” — Marianne “I’m sensing an existential crisis. I see it, whether in academia or business, and that strikes me as a sense of lack of meaning. We need to be pushing harder on ‘What is that boundary?’” — Marianne “For all the rising expectations going on around us and the frustration, the lack of listening and compassion is painful to me.” — Marianne “We wanted to write this book; we did not want this to be a purely business book. These same patterns and tools work at the individual level as a mother, as a friend, and we have seen powerful examples working at the societal level. ” — Marianne “I don’t want you to think what I think but I’d love us to be aligned with what we want in the end goal.” — Marianne   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Dr. Ciela Hartanov runs Humcollective, a boutique strategy and innovation firm that helps companies, executives, and teams make sense of the forces shaping our future and prepare strategically. In this episode, Ciela discusses the shift that will be needed to turn teaching leadership skills into teaching a leadership mindset. She discusses how and why sensitivity (not emotionalism) is needed more than ever at work. Listen in for an impressive view of the future of work and how that will shape our communities.     Key Takeaways [1:57] Ciela has a passion for the human experience inside of work. She believes it is important to put the human at the center of work. Ciela grew up with a father who was very interested in people and she traveled a lot with him. [3:29] The idea of work as a transaction comes from the Industrial Revolution and the assembly line. You work these hours, produce these widgets, and you get paid. Before the Industrial Revolution, you worked for yourself to build a life and had jobs inside the community, such as baker and candlestick maker, to build the community together. [5:37] Society is trying to break the transaction mindset. Because of the pandemic, there has been a reckoning and reconsideration of the employee/employer contract. Everyone’s responsible and we are making agreements together about what that contract is. [6:52] Ciela says we’ve been sold the idea that purpose is an individual pursuit. We are social beings. Ciela has learned through sociology that we are ourselves because we are reflected through other people. An individual’s purpose and meaning are within the context of society. Ciela is working to put us back within the context of our society. We don’t operate as solo individuals. [8:01] Before the pandemic, Ciela was worried that loneliness was an epidemic. People were using work to relieve their loneliness. Employers encouraged employees to be more connected to their organization and to have a “best friend” at work. This idea was disrupted by remote work. Individuals need to have their social needs met outside the organization. It's not enough to just be on your own. [10:05] Ciela doesn’t talk about transformation. She sees what is happening as a renewal of what it means to be alive as a human being. This is a new conversation in society. The Great Resignation is a philosophical conversation about what it means to be a human being and what it means to work. [11:54] Advances are happening that will impact human beings. But the human condition will always be evergreen. We are still discovering things about the human condition. Those things aren’t new, we just didn’t know them yet. The things that are new are technological advances and tools, like AI. [12:42] Ciela is studying Emergence and Emergent theory. It is a fundamental human condition that we don’t like uncertainty. We will be experiencing more and more uncertainty. Ciela helps organizations figure out how to tie the thread between the growing uncertainty and our dislike of it. [15:12] People will learn that adapting to change is an essential skill. Companies can teach their employees how to adapt to new requirements of a job. It is essential to have emotional resilience for the triggers that come with change. When Ciela was at Google, they spent years teaching people how to meditate. Meditation is a tool to regulate emotion inside a complex and challenging environment. [17:15] Humans are naturally curious and interested. We have it as children. The industrial era has stripped that out of us because it’s not efficient. You can’t measure creativity in the same way as productivity. Celia is writing a book. In her book, she talks about moving from the idea of knowledge work to perceptual work. Perceptual work involves perceiving what is happening around us. [19:07] After perceiving comes interpreting. This is a human skill, not a machine skill. When we gain insight, our creative mind sees it and considers the way forward to make a move. In uncertainty, making a move is an experiment. This requires rethinking organizational practices and patterns. There’s not a straight path from Point A to Point B anymore. [21:50] Ciela was on a team at Google that studied the future of leadership. She tells of the insight that led her to organize the study team. She held the position that we need to examine mindsets before we teach leadership skills. It’s like our operating system. If you don’t have the right operating system for the context, you’re never going to be able to demonstrate the right behavior. [25:06] The team developed six mindsets that matter. Ciela shares three of them: 1.) I must know myself and get over myself to be in the service of other people., 2.) Believe that being in uncertain terrain is progress and progress needs tension., 3.) Know that power is responsibility, and take that seriously when you sit in a leadership seat. [27:30] Teaching leadership skills before teaching mindset worked in a time of more certainty. We are in a time of uncertainty that requires a shift, a different way of working with leadership. Now we need to teach mindsets. [28:11] To be an employer of choice, you could offer your employees the ability to gain transferable skills to be able to have a lattice career. Today’s younger employees have more clarity about their values, purpose, and mindset. Ciela would like employers to bolster that and help them gain the skills that are not being taught in school. Organizations have to train skills that are lacking in the talent pool. [29:36] Ciela is writing a book, Reclaiming Sensitivity, due out in 2023. We generally misunderstand what sensitivity is. Sensitivity is the ability to perceive. Let’s reclaim our innate human ability to perceive, both through our emotional attunement and our ability to plan and get curious — the original definition of sensitivity in its widest capacity. One chapter is devoted to making sense of uncertain terrain. [34:36] Jan asks if sensitivity will become the rule in Fortune 500 companies. Ciela replies “Yes, and,” because we haven’t evolved to the new era of work. There is a place for execution, and that’s when you are not in a complex domain. But the level of complexity will start pushing further into the organization and we need to shift our mindset to be ready. We’re not there yet. [38:16] Growing up, Ciela traveled the world with her father. She shares how travel shaped her views on perceiving. Her father taught her to travel like a local. She learned to go inside other peoples’ experiences, versus being on the periphery. Someone in the gig economy must be first understood from an anthropological view before you can have insight and work with them. [41:07] Ciela talks about a study she did at Google about what makes someone able to shift, adjust and be a transformative leader. She found two things: 1.) They were able to find their stable ground — such as a daily workout, and 2.) They were incredibly good at perspective-taking and perceiving. They could transform because they could perceive but also had stable ground from which to move. [42:14] Ciela’s closing thought: Leaders feel tired and burnt out. They “don’t have time for innovation; it’s too hard!” Ciela acknowledges there’s a real tension around the pressures of being a leader right now. Don’t let that blindside you from focusing on what matters, which is paving a path for the future. Open your eyes and start perceiving and thinking about the innovative way out of the uncertainty. [43:43] Closing quote: Remember, “Each person does see the world in a different way. There is not a single, unifying, objective truth. We're all limited by our perspective.” —   Quotable Quotes “Once people came off of the farms and working for themselves to build a life, and moved into the assembly line and the factory, then it was an exchange. You work these hours, you work on this timeline, you produce this number of widgets; … and then you get money.” — Ciela “If you look before the Industrial Revolution, a lot of what we understood about work was also related to community. So, we each had a job inside the community to build the community together.” — Ciela “We had the baker, we had the candlestick maker; we had all the different functions, but the idea inside those functions was that you were building a society and a community together.” — Ciela “We don’t operate as solo individuals. Nothing gets done unless there’s a collective effort and a collective meaning.” — Ciela “Fresh perspectives are required to thrive in an ever-changing context.” — Ciela “We are naturally wired to be curious and interested. We have this innate interest as human beings.” — Ciela “I actually think we need a fundamental restructuring so that that new perspective, that fresh insight, can be part of the strategy process; they can be part of the systems and so that it gets encouraged and then rewarded.” — Ciela “Unless you believe that tension is a good thing and is valuable, you’re never going to be able to work with it.” — Ciela “[Skills] are expiring so quickly and if you want to be an employer of choice you do have to offer the ability for people to gain skills — transferable skills — and be able to shift and to have more of a lattice career versus a ladder career.” — Ciela “It’s not a waste of time to bring people into a sense-making exercise because that is how you make progress. Because progress needs tension. And that is a whole different way of understanding how you interact and deal with a complex domain.” — Ciela “At the center of all of work are human beings and the experience that we are having.” — Ciela   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Reclaiming Sensitivity (scheduled to be published in 2023)  

Jim and Jan discuss the latest crucible expeditions to hopefully inspire and uplift you! Jan has led 21 crucible expeditions to date, and through the diversity of executives and military veterans, they keep providing new insights. Participants come by invitation (or application), and are selected for selflessness, an adventurous spirit, and possessing heroic aspirations to make a difference in the lives of others. Jan’s process is to design the experience, select the participants, get them together, and step back to let them learn and grow as a team, as the magic happens. Participants learn they have more in common than they have differences and strong bonds are formed. Listen in to learn how some of these lessons can apply to your organization.     Key Takeaways [2:03] In this episode, Jan and Jim recap some learnings from two recent back-to-back crucible expeditions that Jan completed. A crucible expedition with Jan is a four-day, three-night wilderness expedition with executives who need a digital detox coupled with military veterans who are transitioning to the business world. The veterans are mostly from the Special Operations community. [3:02] Participants go rock-climbing and backpacking in the middle of nowhere. Really great people get together for some great conversations. Jan selects the executives and veterans on three criteria: they are people who are trying to be as selfless as possible for the greater good, are adventurous, and possess heroic aspirations to try and make the world a better place, in things beyond power and money. [3:57] By selecting those criteria, they get a bunch of strangers coming together as a team very quickly. Based on work Jan has done with surveys by PAIRIN, he believes that when people are out there with strangers, unlike with work colleagues, they have nothing to prove, protect, or promote. [4:24] Jim has been on the Patagonia and Moab crucibles and he attests that they are incredible experiences that move you in ways you would never expect. Jan has done 21 crucible expeditions so far. [5:34] Jan has found that his talent lies not in charismatic leadership but in designing the environment and culture for the team, stepping back, staying out of the way, and letting the magic happen. Jan shares his critique of an expedition Jim was on a few years ago. He says he should have stepped away more and guided things and discussions through questions. [7:30] Jan shares a crucible learning for your work. There is one person in charge, and the second person is the accountability partner. If the leader takes a wrong turn, the accountability partner lets them make the mistake and learn from it. We don’t grow and develop without making and correcting mistakes. Let your people at work learn and develop from their mistakes. [10:09] On the crucibles, you’ve got executives that are making the time and space for their improvement. Jan just spoke to someone who loved the outdoor aspect of the crucible and feels like she needs more time off. Jan tells executives to find the sweet spot between sitting on the hill, figuring out what their team needs, and getting with the team, working with them, and coaching them, first-hand. [11:44] Executive coaches work to try to get people to move from being “here,” doing “these things,” to being “there,” doing “those things.” It takes self-discipline, sacrifice, focus, delegation, and trust to get there. That’s where accountability partners come in, plus taking time to reflect. Jan tells about the three-hour solo challenge of silent alone-time, thinking for three hours, and reporting on it later. [13:30] The bedrock of the crucible is that people relate to each other as humans, that they're vulnerable. People are dealing with a lot on the homefront and the things they are struggling with come up in their first meeting. Often it is family stuff. The idea that it’s OK not to be OK comes through. At work, senior leaders have to be strong and act in a certain way to get performance from other people. [14:49] On a crucible, people let their guard down. They might cry around the campfire or climbing a mountain, even though they never cry. In some ways, their crying and vulnerability bring the team together. It’s a gift to show your real emotions. It’s not a gift stoic people share at work. And everybody on the crucible is equal. [16:25] Jim summarizes that vulnerability is the resounding theme of a crucible. You are put in a situation where you are physically vulnerable. In the evening discussions, people became more mentally and emotionally vulnerable. Jan believes that whiskey helps. He has seen it. Jim is still close to people from both of his crucible trips in a different way than his golfing buddies. [18:09] When you go out there as a business executive, having little to no experience with veterans, or the elite operators who go on these expeditions, you might think you have nothing in common with them. You come away with respect that goes both ways. You see the military in a different light. The folks in the military now see civilians in a different light. [18:56] Only one percent of the population in America has anything to do with the military. It has become a family business. Most of those families are from the South. The military is very insular. You’re around people that think, act, and talk like you. Your world is filled with military acronyms. The military spends money. You’re not in the generate revenue, create demand business. [20:03] A lot of the leadership and people challenges are very similar between the military and business. In the past two years, twice, a special operations commando who has carried a flag under his body armor on multiple missions decided to give that flag to executive participants from the crucible — they were flags that could have draped a body if the operator had not survived a mission. [21:37] A crucible changes people’s lives. After the Patagonia crucible, Jim took a fork in the road that he might not have taken before the crucible. Jim says when you spend the time and get to know other people, you’re much more similar than you think. That kind of experience is something to keep in mind when you look at our divisive society. Take the time to listen to people and gain their perspectives. [22:51] On one trip, sitting around the fire at the end, a leader said it was interesting that “none of us talked about politics or religion. I’m guessing, politically, we go from left to right and in-between. Look how great we got along. This is what Americans should be about.” It was a powerful moment. Each participant was only in the category of human with heroic aspirations beyond power and money. [24:24] The crucible cannot scale. It cannot be done with big groups in wilderness areas and some people couldn’t or wouldn’t do it. So, Jan is writing a book about it with a co-author who is a past crucible participant and military veteran. [25:01] There was little diversity in the first expeditions. Jan credits Sheryl Tullis with helping him make the teams intentionally diverse and representative of the workforce. Jan believes that the men bring out the best in the women participants and vice versa. Jan marvels at the self-confidence of some of the recent diverse participants. They know who they are and what they bring to the table. [27:52] One reason a recent expedition was so good was that there was diversity of age, gender, geography, and company size. The veterans were thoughtful, deliberate, cerebral people, deeply curious about the business world they were going into. These trips are about what happens in the one-on-one discussions as you’re walking down the trail, and in the evening discussions around the fire.  [29:35] U.S. Navy SEAL Master Chief Stephen Drum has been on the podcast. He is writing a book and Jim is reading the preliminary manuscript for him. Stephen writes that when SEALS wash out, it is never about physical fitness. It’s always about lacking strength of character, conviction, or values. Some of the strongest people on a crucible are strongest in character. [31:17] Jan mentions Don Yaeger, a Sports Illustrated writer and author of many books about great athletes. Don says all great athletes hate to lose more than they like to win. The reason Jan became a Green Beret is that he did not quit. He was 18 years old. More than he wanted to win, he did not want to fail. [32:32] In the business world, at some point things are going to be hard. There’s always something nagging at you that says, “Quit.” If what you are doing is aligned with your values, then you won’t quit. If it’s not aligned with your values, it doesn’t serve you. [33:33] Steve Drotter, a previous guest of the podcast with old-school values, said, “A career is made from having hard jobs that suck and bosses that beat you up. That makes a career!” Today, it seems the job caters to the employee. There is a supply-and-demand issue. The workplace is not as tough as it used to be. [34:50] Jan is hearing from the Army and the Marines that young people entering the services have no outdoor experience; no woodcraft or fieldcraft. Jan wonders what’s happening in the business world where people come in without knowing certain things! Jim observes that their writing is atrocious. But now we don’t write long business reports, we write Powerpoints. Expectations have changed. [36:54] Job conditions wax and wane, and we may go back to a more tough work environment in a few years, where employers have the upper hand, instead of the employees. These are the leadership challenges we have. [37:38] Jan’s last words: The crucibles are a passion and a privilege. The only way you’re going to change your narrative is to step out of your comfort zone. Whether you go on a crucible or do something else, Jan and Jim encourage you to think about the things where you find purpose and meaning, where you can make a contribution to the greater good, and be bold and make things happen. [39:14] Closing quote: “Twice and thrice over, as they say, good is it to repeat and review what is good.” — Plato.   Quotable Quotes “We select the executives and the veterans based on three criteria: We’re looking for people that are trying to be as selfless as possible, … We look for people that are adventurous, … and … people who possess heroic aspirations, trying to make the world a better place.” — Jan “Most of the time I come back from a trip and I beat myself up. … I evaluate my own leadership, and participation performance, and think, ‘Woulda, coulda, shoulda.’ I do think one thing I’ve gotten better at is doing less.” — Jan “What I have found, at least for me, is my talent isn’t necessarily at being the charismatic leader; it’s really being a pretty darn good designer. By that I mean if I design the environment, the culture, for the team, and I step back and stay out of the way, magic happens.” — Jan “I will say, even at my advanced age, I’m still a work in progress.” — Jan “The lesson won’t be learned the same if you go, ‘Wait, wait, I can fix this!’. I talked to somebody today that said, ‘I do way too many Powerpoints. I should be delegating those and I do way too many because it’s just easier and faster for me to do it.’” — Jan “Delegation is usually at the top three of things that people can work on to improve. … People never have the time to delegate. They never have the time and space to do it right or to think they even have the opportunity to do it. And it just is a self-fulfilling prophecy.” — Jim “What we’re very intentional about, and what always ends up being the big takeaway, is you’ve got to slow down to speed up. Especially for executives, you’ve got to figure out the sweet spot between going and sitting on the hill and figuring things out” — Jan “One of the things that we try to do on every crucible is give people three hours. We call it the solo challenge. In some ways, it’s the hardest thing people do is go be by themselves, doing nothing for three hours except thinking.” — Jan “Out there, people just let their guard down. People sometimes will cry around the campfire. Sometimes they’ll cry going up the mountain and they’ll say, ‘I never cry. I — never — cry.’ Did anybody care that you cried? No. … Crying and vulnerability brought the team together.” — Jan “You can really build some warm and strong relationships with people you might think are so different from you that you could never, ever have anything in common with them.” — Jim   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

Joe McCormack is the author of “BRIEF: Make a Bigger Impact by Saying Less,” and “Noise: Living and Leading When Nobody Can Focus.” He founded the Brief Lab in 2013 after years dedicated to developing and delivering a unique curriculum for US Army Special Operations. He actively counsels military leaders and senior executives on effective, efficient communication, and produces the podcast, “Just Saying.” In this conversation, he shares the keys to thinking clearly to get to the root cause of a problem and explain the way forward, simply, concisely, and effectively.     Key Takeaways [2:45] Joe is the sixth of nine children in his Irish Catholic family. His early career includes a period of aerospace marketing in the aviation field before he started a marketing agency. [4:28] Joe’s executive message about communication is “Less is more.” You don’t need to say much but what you say needs to count. Leaders tend to overwhelm people with information. Be more careful and calculating to be concise. You want to say more but people can’t hear it. [6:16] Joe explains why people say too much; a lack of time to prepare, the fear of not giving enough information, the fear of looking stupid, and the fear of failing to handle every contingency. It’s never just one of these things; it’s all of them. [6:45] People need to consider, “What does my audience need?” They don’t need six paragraphs. They’re craving brevity. They want two. Give the audience what they want: two well-written paragraphs. More paragraphs will dilute the message and diminish your impact. [7:54] When Joe wrote Brief he considered what was the most essential thing to say in the shortest time given. But don’t be too brief. Say what is necessary. When you learn the skills, you can use brevity consistently. There’s a payoff for people that have the skillset. [10:30] Joe asks people three questions about executive summaries: “Have you ever heard the term ‘executive summary’?” “Have you ever had a developer deliver one?” “Has anybody ever taught you how to build one?” People’s answers are normally, Yes, Yes, and No. If they say Yes to the third, Joe asks them how to build one. They don’t get it right. [11:33] Three questions to answer that will make a great executive summary: “What are you talking about?” “Why are we talking about this right now?” “So what now; what next?” [13:26] Joe teaches people the habit of briefly summarizing their message. It’s different than just knowing it. It’s a habitual way of thinking, speaking, and stopping from talking. [15:09] Fortune 500 corporations and Special Operations are alike in some ways. They both have high standards and expectations and they need to deliver, either for ROI or mission success. In the military, there is a lot of training. Corporations are starting to adopt more training. Since COVID-19 businesses are looking to attract talent. Communication and collaboration are how businesses work. [16:59] Collaboration works in moderation. Microsoft came out with a recent study that shows what people want most from their workplace is autonomy. They want to be left alone to think, and then when they collaborate, it’s better. If you don’t give people time to think about a problem, they come up with an answer on the fly. Deep problems don’t get solved on the fly, but only after thinking and then talking. [22:18] When planning a meeting, take 10 minutes of quiet. Then sit down and create an agenda of what you want to talk about; think about it, write it, and edit it. Then send it and follow it. It works. [23:09] There’s a time for collaboration, talking, and doing, and there’s a time for thinking. You have to figure out in your role, and what that time allotment is. Once you get that, you’re not doing too much or too little, you’re doing your job. Joe heard of a CEO who said, “I don’t think at work; I’m in meetings all the time.” The CEO needs time to think at work. [25:34] As leaders, you need to make a quiet appointment with yourselves for a set amount of time every day. During the appointment, write down things that you need to be thinking about; “How do I get feedback from my employees?” or “What’s wrong with my current work situation?” Make the appointment and don’t miss it. [28:42] Joe’s 15-minute podcast, Just Saying, comes from the classes he teaches to Special Operations teams about concise communications that are effective. [30:15] Joe’s book, Noise, is about the correlation between clear thinking and lowering noise levels. If you don’t manage the noise, your thoughts are scattered. If your thoughts are scattered, your speech is scattered. Ineffective leaders are scattered because they haven’t thought about what they are doing and why they are doing it. They start by talking. Clear thinking leads to concise communication. [31:56] When addressing a problem, ask yourself how much you think about it and how well you think about it. Do you dedicate enough time to thinking about your business? Are you constantly getting distracted in your thinking time? If you do 20 minutes of quiet every day, your thinking will be better. You won’t excel at it at first, but make it a daily habit and you will get better at it and get focused. [34:49] Tips from Brief: You need Awareness: It’s important to be clear and concise. Discipline: Talk and stop talking when needed. Decisiveness: Know when to act and then act. Jim calls these traits a virtuous circle and compares them to the skills of a running back in a football game. [39:37] People have different ways of thinking. Some people need to think about stuff more and some people are quick to answer. There are strengths and weaknesses to both types of people. Make sure the people around you know your processing style. [41:15] Joe shares a success story. A client was able to frame and reframe what he was doing, why he was doing it, what the value was to the organization, how he was doing it, and how he was measuring the impact in a presentation to the board. They didn’t cut a dime from his budget. If you can’t state your work in those clear terms, people will default to thinking it’s not that important, and you will get cut. [44:05] Joe tells of a military client. The skill of being clear, concise, easy to understand, and easy to follow is valuable. In the middle of a briefing, a general asked Joe’s client, who was presenting, “Where did you learn to brief like that?” If everyone else is terrible at it and you’re good at it, all of a sudden, you’re the tallest person in the room. It takes time to prepare for that. [46:21] When Joe presents to a group he focuses on the audience and how they are alike. The common denominator is they all want the shorter version! They may want to know more but they all crave a clear and concise answer. He provides a clear and concise answer. If they want more, he provides a clear and longer answer. Then, if they want more, he provides the clearest and longest explanation. [48:06] Jan and Jim spend a lot of time helping people to focus. A previous guest of the podcast, Brian Caulfield told them “Sell the problem, not the solution.” No one has time and everyone is selling a solution. Joe’s Brief method is a recipe for managing time and figuring out the root cause of a problem. [49:25] Joe’s challenge: Take time and quiet to think about it. Schedule it. Use quiet to your advantage, however much you need. Then talk. Think before you speak. And then do something. Those are separate things. You think about it quietly. You lower the noise. You start to get a root cause. Then you can say the most important thing (not the things). Then watch people say, “I got it! Now I know what to do.” [52:13] Closing quote: “Brevity is the soul of wit.” — William Shakespeare.   Quotable Quotes “To be an elite communicator is to embrace a different standard, which is ‘Less is more. I don't need to say so much but what I say needs to count.’” “It’s hard because you want to say more but people can’t hear it.” “There’s a famous quote, which is, ‘I would have written you a shorter letter if I had more time.” “I wrote a 220-page book on brevity. That almost made me insane. Because you start to think about, what really is the most essential thing to say in the shortest amount of time given? That really takes some thought.” “If you’re pitching an investor, that investor has this aperture or window of interest and what you say needs to sit inside that window. And that takes a lot of consideration. What does that person care about? What’s the most important thing? Why am I doing this?” “What I teach people is the habit of doing [a summary]. It’s different from just knowing it.” “There’s quality collaboration and then there’s terrible collaboration. [In a meeting] the collaboration is poor. They talk at each other, they don’t prepare, it’s disorganized, it’s scattered, and people don’t listen.” “You ask people when do you prepare for meetings and how do you prepare for meetings and often the answer is, ‘I can’t because I’m in a meeting. I’m constantly collaborating, leaving me no time to prepare for the next meeting.’” “If you don’t give people a chance to think about it, they’re coming up with the answer on the fly. Deep problems don’t get solved on the fly. They get solved when you actually have to slow down and think about it. And then you say something.” “Great leaders have the humility to say ‘I’m going to think about it. I’m going to have others think about it. I’m going to come up with a solution and then I’m going to explain it in the simplest terms possible and hope it works!’”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

Dr. Zoe Chance is a professor at the Yale School of Management, and is the author of Influence Is Your Superpower: The Science of Winning Hearts, Sparking Change, and Making Good Things Happen. Her framework for behavior change is the foundation for Google’s global food policy. In this conversation, Zoe describes forms of influence and discusses how good relationships lead to good work. She challenges the people to use influence for the greater good, not just for individual purposes.     Key Takeaways [2:11] Zoe, a sci-fi fan, named her daughter Ripley after Ellen Ripley from Aliens. [5:16] Almost all of us, even the most successful, have negative feelings about influence strategies or tactics, but almost all of us would also like to be more influential. Influence has a bad rap. We think of it as distasteful. With new science, Zoe is bringing back the idea of influence as a leadership trait. [7:06] People have different definitions of influence and manipulation. Zoe considers influence to be anything that shifts someone’s thinking or behavior, including manipulation, persuasion, behavioral economics, coercion, military might, and incentives. Manipulation is someone trying to influence a person in an underhanded way with a motive that does not align with the well-being of the person. [8:13] Behavioral economics nudges are mostly imperceptible, but would not be upsetting to people being influenced for their best interest, such as attempts to get people to save more for retirement. [9:48] Over the past year, up to the rise of bad inflation, employees have had a lot of power, and companies were desperate to hire. There’s been a crisis in the service industry. Now the power is shifting to employers. They want people to be there but, for the most part, they don’t have good reasons for wanting people to be there. Humu’s Laszlo Bock asks, “Why, to look over their shoulder?” [11:51] Jan, Zoe, and Jim discuss whether most companies need to have their employees in the office, and how the return to the office is being handled. [13:51] Jim finds that in-person meetings are much more effective than online meetings that are filled with side-text meetings within the meeting. Jim also observes the need to train new college graduates in the culture of the organization. A culture needs to be maintained and groomed like a garden and that happens better in person. [15:31] Zoe would like to see leaders be better able to create the culture that they want. Bringing people back to the office to experience a negative culture is a horrible plan. [17:19] Jim contrasts the freedom of travel and the restrictions of the cube farm he experienced early in his career. He didn’t like working in a cube and it affected his career. Now, since the pandemic, everyone has enjoyed freedom, and once freedom has been enjoyed it’s hard for it to be taken away. Zoe says taking freedoms and privileges away will cause a rebellion; she shares an example from a bank. [20:26] Zoe shares a story featuring the Magic Question “What would it take for that to never happen again?”, and how to use it. It acknowledges that the people you are trying to influence know much more about their life than you do. It’s not perceived as pressure to follow your advice and it can lead to a commitment to the positive outcome you want. [26:05] Zoe gives a shoutout to the veterans who come through the Yale School of Management. The professors love to have veterans in their classes because they are good listeners, and pay attention to the professors, their colleagues, and their classmates. They amplify other people’s ideas and ask follow-up questions; they only speak when they feel they have something important to share. [28:16] Zoe tells about her TEDx talk, “How to Make a Behavior Addictive.” She tells how a pedometer injured her body, her marriage, and her relationships. She is vulnerable to technology. Social media is addictive because it’s designed carefully to keep your attention. There is evidence that social media does much more harm than good. Zoe has studied the psychology that makes people want to come back. [31:28] Zoe explains the manipulative and negative power of variable intermittent rewards. If someone is using variable intermittent rewards to manipulate you, it’s an unhealthy relationship. Social media does that to us constantly. [35:38] Zoe shares advice for leaders on having difficult conversations involving challenging feedback. Have these conversations as soon as you realize that there’s something amiss, ideally, that day. If you are giving criticism, the longer you wait, the more betrayed the person feels because you’ve been harboring resentment against them. Having the practice of bringing it up as soon as you can is life-changing. [39:35] How can you have more power within your organization? Internalize the idea that good work comes from good relationships. Reach out to get to know challenging people in other departments and ask questions. “How is this going for you? It’s kind of been a struggle for me and I’d like to understand your perspective.” It’s hard for people not to like you when you reach out and connect with them. [41:42] Research shows men’s social and professional networks overlap a lot while women’s social and professional networks do not. If you are a woman, Zoe advises you to reach out to women and men at work, especially if you’re not already friends with lots of people at work. You will find a friendly rapport and reciprocity that leads to things happening more easily. Men usually have better networks. [43:41] As Zoe was writing Influence Is Your Superpower, she asked a group of people about negotiations. Only 40% of men and 17% of women said they like or love negotiating. When she asked another group to describe their most recent negotiation, their adjectives were overwhelmingly positive. About 80% of them had had a good result and felt empowered! [47:54] Zoe discusses power in an organization. Influence works the same in leadership and relationships. The idea that a leader should never apologize because apologizing gives up power is wrong to Zoe. You build a lot of social capital by apologizing at the right time, in the right way, and by taking responsibility. That’s powerful! [49:44] Zoe provides an anecdote that listeners can copy about a leader raising his status by sharing the spotlight. Jess Cain VP of Customer Service at Eversource has a 96% employee engagement rating by sharing a short weekly voicemail including a spotlight on two different team members. She has 1,500 members on her team. Jan notes also that people support what they help create. [53:27] Zoe’s challenge to listeners: Challenge the frame of consumerism. Thinking of ourselves as consumers has caused the climate crisis. Think about using your influence in the grand scheme and not just for your benefit. Be a role model. Zoe is donating half the profits from her book to 350.org. [56:00] Closing quote: “Think twice before you speak because your words and influence will plant the seed of either success or failure in the mind of another.” — Napoleon Hill.   Quotable Quotes “Almost all of us, … have mixed feelings about influence. … If I ask people …  what are three adjectives that come to mind when you think of influence tactics, [it's] yucky, greedy, manipulative. … When I ask … ‘Would you like to be more influential?”, all of them say, yes.” “Employees have been more productive at home than they have been at work, … but it hasn’t changed the fact that employers want employees to come back.” “Employers that offer more flexibility are going to do much better in the long run, because they’ll be able to recruit the best talent.” “As most academics do, we collaborate with people that we never see and that’s partly because we’re introverted and so we’re kind of happy to be in our little cave. But there’s no problem with collaborating with people that you don’t see.” “If you want to onboard new people and help them make friends; to have informal conversations and collaborations, OK, that’s great. We just don’t need to all be at the office every single day, or even every single week, right?” “Plenty of surveys have shown that leaders are actually out of touch about the real culture of their company. … the actual reality is kind of a crappy culture. It’s horrible to bring people back to the office to experience the crappy culture.” “Bringing people back to the office or allowing people to work remotely has a differential impact on women and people of color and various groups. So there’s more equality when we have more flexibility. That’s another reason I’m generally in favor of giving people flexibility.” “Every freedom, every privilege, should be so carefully and thoughtfully doled out with the expectation that what you’re giving an employee is going to be in perpetuity, or there’s going to be a rebellion.” “When she’s asking this {Magic Question], she’s respectfully acknowledging ‘Listen, you know all kinds of things that I don’t know,” which is always the case with the people we’re trying to influence. They know all kinds of things about their life that we don’t.” “The most addictive piece [of social media] … is called ‘variable intermittent rewards.’” “We also often don’t really realize what our expectations are until they get violated.” “Just internalize the idea that good work comes from good relationships.” “There is a ‘liking’ gap of 12%, where people like you 12% more than you think that they do. And this very much includes people who you have some bit of conflict or strife with.” “The majority … have this idea of negotiations that … comes from the movies. … We don’t directly observe many negotiations and we’re just not realizing that in our lives, most of the time when we’re negotiating, it goes pretty well. … Negotiation is not as bad as we think."   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

Donato J. Tramuto is an American healthcare executive, global health activist, author and former CEO of Tivity Health. Donato’s first book was released in 2016, “Life’s Bulldozer Moments: How Adversity Can Lead to Success in Life and Business.” His latest book, “The Double Bottom Line,” is an Amazon Best Seller. Donato is a recipient of the prestigious RFK Ripple of Hope and the RFK Embracing His Legacy Award, for his endless dedication to improving the lives of others. In this episode, Donato discusses the nuances of hardship, developing compassion, being yourself, understanding your associates, and using tenderness to establish trust before relying on tenacity.        Key Takeaways [2:20] Donato lost most of his hearing at age eight, for ten years, and had a severe speech impediment until he was 17. The loss of his hearing created in him an enormous sense of compassion for people. [4:14] For his latest book, The Double Bottom Line, Donato, and his team interviewed 41 world leaders and surveyed 1,500 employees across the country. Their research revealed that compassionate leaders need to do more than understand others’ pain. They need empathy in action to impact others.[6:24] The Double Bottom Line is not just a business book. Donato shares a life experience. In the book, he tells the reader, “Listen to understand, don’t listen to react.” Donato suggests that if we practice compassionate leadership in our daily lives, we’ll take it into our business lives. [8:04] Jan recalls recent guest Michael Bungay Stanier speaking about being compassionate, generous, and kind every day. Jan stresses the difference between being compassionate and being nice. Donato says, “If you want to be liked in a company, you’re probably better to go out and get 100 golden retrievers! Compassionate leadership is not just about being nice.” [9:38] Donato advocates three Ts: approach your organization with Tenderness first, to get the Trust. Then you can use Tenacity. When making tough decisions, don’t start with tenacity. You gain trust by taking the time to understand each person in your organization. [10:42] As the CEO of Healthways (Tivity), Donato avoided the CEO elevator to ride the regular elevator. He shares an event that unfolded from him asking an employee in the elevator how his day was going. Donato would not have known the employee needed help had he not asked the question. Ask questions to get answers beyond, “I’m OK.” [11:52] Form deep relationships with your associates. Generation Z and Millennials will form 60‒65% of the workforce and they require compassionate leadership or they will leave. People are reflecting on their lives in ways we have never seen in our lifetime. [13:07] In Donato’s last year as CEO of Tivity Health, he took a hard line with an executive in front of nine other executives just before a flight. He felt miserable about it. When his plane landed, he got off and called the executive to apologize to her. Because of that apology, their relationship blossomed. With compassionate leadership, you feel better, you don’t take problems home, and you gain credibility! [15:42] Jim quotes Dale Carnegie, who said, “Be interested, not interesting.” [16:36] Donato is thrilled to announce that the Boston University School of Public Health is going to convert The Double Bottom Line: How Compassionate Leaders Captivate Hearts and Deliver Results, into a curriculum to teach compassion. Many of the leaders Donato interviewed were not born with compassion. They learned it through someone in their family or a teacher. The book is a resource. [17:26] There is an opportunity to train our current and future leaders on how to lead from the heart. Donato’s book has assignments at the end of each chapter to help individuals understand the key nuggets of using compassion. Donato’s commitment for the next 20 years is to expand this movement beyond the book and to help leaders see the key ingredients to being compassionate. [20:22] Millennials and Generation Z are demanding a totally different approach to the work environment. Leaders will have to step up and embrace that change or they will be losing significant talent; they won’t be as competitive or as effective. The success of The Double Bottom Line is a validation of compassionate leadership. Institutions are asking Donato for training. The time is right. [22:51] Donato proposes a Chief Compassionate Leader Officer for the C-Suite. Boards have got to be willing to ask these questions about culture and trust, to validate that the organization is moving in this direction, as opposed to always looking at a spreadsheet. [25:36] What is the right amount of empathy, vs. making hard decisions? Empathy overload means getting too deep into the situation, clouding your ability to make hard decisions. [27:06] When you ask to understand and have gotten to the issue, then you need to come to an agreement and consensus with “and,” not “but.” “I understand your issues, and how do we work together to make sure that your needs are met and the needs of the organization are met?” When Donato has taken that approach, they always got to an end result that worked for both parties. [30:24] Establishing trust comes before results. Donato asks permission to help. Once he had a board member, who was not behaving well, refuse to receive some constructive insight. She said, “No. You’re not my coach.” Trust was not established. The board member did not have a favorable outcome; she was later asked to leave the board. Ask for permission to provide constructive insight and most will agree. [32:40] When is it appropriate to address spirituality in the workplace? Donato believes our connection to a spiritual force influences how we behave. If you are a spiritual person, it’s not something to be embarrassed by. The world is increasingly secular. People who do not focus on spirituality may otherwise have positive values that guide their behavior for good. Be who you are. [34:40] Until 2014, when he received the RFK recognitions, Donato had not shared with anyone that he was gay and had a partner. In front of 2,000 people, 500 of whom were his employees, he thanked his loving partner of 23 years. The audience stood to applaud. The more you are who you are, the more you develop an understanding in the workforce that you’re like the other person in many ways. [37:07] Do people look favorably upon expressions of faith? If you emphasize too much one facet of who you are, then you make it an issue. Donato shares many facets of himself in case someone has one of those facets in common with him. [41:20] Start to look at what you and your associates have in common. You will begin to realize that there is very little that is different about you. Take the time to understand the other person. [43:20] Age discrimination is real. The average CEO is 59 years old. They hire their executive team from the same age group. Until we are willing to diversify the executive team, we will not integrate the values of the different generations to build an incredible team. Donato has just hired a terrific 23-year-old manager and he has learned a lot from her. Ten years ago, he would not have hired one of her age. [46:55] The organization’s values should not be decided only by the executive team. Donato tells of changing a company’s 10 hard-to-remember values established by executive leadership into five carefully organized and prioritized values developed with the participation of the associates. [47:34] Don’t choose when to be compassionate. Show compassion to everyone. Be compassionate all the time, just as a pilot flies a plane in a safe manner all the time. [48:35] Donato’s challenge to listeners: There are many issues affecting us today. Start every single day by asking a friend or family member, “Tell me what you’re experiencing today.” After you’ve listened and you’ve heard them, do something! Kindness and compassion are the new currency of the century. [50:40] Closing quote: “Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly.” — Robert F. Kennedy.   Quotable Quotes “The fluency you’re hearing today was not there when I was 17. … I share that with you because I think that part of leadership is being … comfortable with your story. Too many people … don’t really understand the steps that led to the successful position you might have.” “You rent your title; you own your dignity.” “If you want to be a compassionate leader, you must have empathy in action to have impact.” “Listen to understand. Understand what the other person might be going through.” “Everyone that you meet most likely is having a more difficult time than you.” “You want deep relationships with your associates. And by the way, we are now faced with five generations in the workforce. Generation Z and the Millennials will soon dominate — 60‒65% of the workforce. If you’re not changing as a leader, guess what, you’re going to be losing out.” “Part of compassionate leadership is doing some self-reflection. You’re not always going to be right and when you are wrong and you admit to it you will gain an enormous amount of credibility.” “My favorite philosopher Yogi Berra once said, ‘You don’t want to make the wrong mistake.’” “With five generations now in the workforce, and Millennials and the Gen Z-ers demanding a totally different approach to the work environment, I think that we’re going to have to step up and begin to embrace that change or we’re going to be losing some significant talent.” “A significant portion of [the Great Resignation] is related to feeling good, and passionate, and putting a soul in your company. … If the leaders of today cannot embrace that, they’re going to be gone.” “We have to be willing to understand that it’s not one facet that attracts people to you, it’s the entire person who you are, and the more willing you are to share those multiple facets, you begin to develop relationships in different venues.” “You have got to have the [company] values developed by everyone in the organization, otherwise, they are not going to stick. And that’s what we did. We brought the 10 values down to five. And … we did prioritize them.” “You show compassion to everyone and you’re compassionate all the time! You don’t pick and choose when you’re compassionate. It's like asking the pilot ‘When do you fly the plane in a safe manner?’ You always fly the plane in a safe manner!”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Michael Bungay Stanier has written books that have sold about a million copies all told, including The Coaching Habit. He founded a training and development company, Box of Crayons, that has taught coaching skills to hundreds of thousands of people around the world. Listen in to see why Michael has been named the #1 Thought Leader in Coaching; and why his work has resonated with thousands…     Key Takeaways [2:00] Jan and Jim met Michael Bungay Stanier through Bobby Herrera, the author of The Gift of Struggle. Michael is the author of the most successful book on coaching of this century, The Coaching Habit. Michael’s latest book is How to Begin. [3:06] Little-known facts about Michael: he was banned from his high school graduation for a balloon prank, he was sued by one of his law school professors for defamation, and his first professional writing was The Male Delivery, a romance short story.[6:07] Michael recently wrote on LinkedIn about his mother’s 50-year-old garden. It has a series of microclimates: a vegetable garden, a fern garden, a wisteria garden, and a Wollemi pine. Each area is looked after differently. He compares caring for a garden to caring for the microcultures in an organization’s culture. [6:18] As a leader you see that things need to change. You’re constantly looking to evolve and grow your organization or strategy. The way you think about engaging all the other people is how change happens in an organization. [8:36] In Australia, some trees need to be burned before they will germinate. Sometimes you need to burn some stuff down to allow the culture to germinate, refresh, and regrow. [10:01] Jan quotes a military mantra, “Selection’s an ongoing process. Just because you got to come here and be in this organization doesn’t mean you get to stay.” Michael notes that our natural wiring is to add. One of the most powerful things to do to drive change is to remove. Michael tells of a study involving adding or removing Lego blocks to make the desired shape. Most people added blocks. [11:05] Most people, when thinking of change in an organization, ask what they need to add. Instead, they would get better changes by asking what 20% of what is happening, what practices, structures, systems, culture,  or people, they need to remove! Michael learned of the study by reading Subtract: The Untapped Science of Less, by Leidy Klotz. [12:15] We are also wired to give advice, even when it’s better to ask a question. Michael counsels leaders to stay curious a little bit longer and move to action and advice-giving a little bit more slowly. Michael explains where we go wrong with giving advice. [14:29] One resistance to having coaching be part of your culture is asking who has time for it. Michael says if you can’t coach somebody in 10 minutes or less, you do not have time to coach them. Being curious does not take a vast amount of time. Michael defines coaching as being curious just a little bit longer. Being curious allows you to figure out what the real challenge is. [15:28] In most organizations, people are working very hard to solve not the real challenge, but the first challenge. Because we get seduced into thinking that the first challenge is the thing we need to solve. If you build a reputation as the person who always seems to figure out what the real challenge is, you build a reputation as a strategic player. [16:00] Strategy is knowing what the real thing is and being bold enough to go and try to fix that. Organizations are filled with people who are good at coming up with fast, not very good ideas. If you’re just one of them, you’re not as valuable to your organization. If you’re always the person who asks, “What’s the real challenge we’re trying to solve here?” you become invaluable. Get the diagnosis right. [16:33] Michael just had a free webinar that asked “What’s the one question that unlocks everything?” The question is, “If I’m going to say ‘yes’ to this, what must I say ‘no’ to?” He quotes Michael Porter, who said, “Strategy is choice. It’s having the courage to make the choice.” Most of us are afraid of making the choice. [17:21] There are three levels of things you have to say “no” to 1.) Tasks. What are the tasks I need to stop doing? 2.) People. To whom do I need to say no? Whom do I need to disappoint? 3.) The old version of who you are, so you can say yes to the new version of who you are. [19:38] The book, How to Begin, asks if you understand the prizes and punishments of staying committed to the status quo. People often don’t understand how much they get from the way things are right now, even though they’re overwhelmed. You need to know what you value and hold dear. There is a tension between the work that has impact and work that has meaning. [21:28] You have to ask what has to be done in this organization for this thing to be a success. What is the work you do that unlocks the best of who you are and has the maximal impact within your organization? [23:15] What does it mean to set a worthy goal? How do you set the goals that matter to you? How do you set a goal that claims ambition for yourself and the world? Michael suggests there are three key elements 1.) Is it thrilling? Does it light you up? 2.) Is it important? 3.) Have you picked a worthy goal that is daunting to you? Will it take you to the edge of your sense of self? [25:14] If you have a goal that is thrilling, important, but not daunting, you have plateaued; you are no longer learning. Michael is now an old dog but he still wants to learn new tricks! Neuroplasticity is how you keep your brain alive and push yourself to the edge. [26:44] Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Relevant, and Time-bound (SMART) goals are goals of things for management to track. Leadership goals are harder to measure and track. [30:12] When Michael’s father was dying, Michael shared with his father a book chapter he had just written about him, referring to Rilke’s poem “The Man Watching,” about Jacob wrestling with the angel. Michael saw his father as Jacob, a very good man wrestling something greater than himself and becoming the best of who he was. [33:37] Michael is writing a book and he is finding a lot of resistance in the writing. He feels he is losing a wrestle with an angel and feels the angel’s thumbs pushing him down. He asks himself what is his worthy goal. Right now, it’s to be with his mother in Australia, to help her with her grief and mourning, and to let go of his need to write his book or anything else. [36:05] Humility and confidence go hand-in-hand, as Michael explains. [37:48] Coaches must consider for whose sake they are talking. Is it helping the client or the coach? Is it for the coach to figure something out or is it for the client to figure something out? Is the coach’s talking the best way to serve the client or is it giving the coach status, authority, gravitas, and added value? [39:09] When should coaches talk? Michael says the more he’s been around, the more he says the best thing to do is allow the person to figure their stuff out so that they’re creating new neural pathways and gaining competence, confidence, self-sufficiency, and autonomy. That’s the better way to coach. [40:00] Are you asking questions in service of the client or in service of the problem? Michael says to test it out. Ask the person you are talking to, “Does this feel helpful? What feels useful here in all of this, if anything?” The client will know the answers to those questions better than you will. Figure it out between the two of you. Coaching is a relationship. Stop trying to figure it out all in your head. [42:41] Michael’s closing thoughts: “If you can stay curious and you can stay kind and you can be generous, that just takes you a long way down the path of being a good human being. Curiosity, kindness, and generosity are a really powerful triumvirate.” [48:19] Closing quote: “Coaching’s not a job, it’s a privilege.” — Lee Corso.   Quotable Quotes “Any dominant culture actually has subcultures and microclimates. And you’re not just trying to build a culture, you’re [asking], ‘How do I build these microclimates that are all contributors, culture-adds, to the overall culture of my organization?’” “If you’re a leader, one of the mantras you have is ‘Stuff needs to change around here.’ You’re constantly looking to evolve and grow your organization or your strategy in some way. … The way you think about engaging all the other people is how change happens in an organization.” “I’m trying to get people in organizations … to stay curious a little bit longer and rush to action and advice-giving a little bit more slowly because most of us are advice-giving maniacs.” “There is a place for advice-giving. There is absolutely a place for advice-giving! It’s an act of civilization to trade information. What kills us is when we have leaping to advice as our default response.” “When you work in an organization, you’ve got a tension always between work that has impact and the work that has meaning. If you can be really clear on the stuff that matters to you, … then you also have to ask, ‘What needs to be done in this organization for this to be a success?’” “If you’re not working on the right thing, it doesn’t matter if your goal is specific, measurable, attainable, timely, or whatever else. It’s like you’re not working on the thing that’s going to have the most impact and bring out the best of who you are.” “With a worthy goal, you can do work on one or two worthy goals, not more than that.” “I’m trying to write a book at the moment, and I wrote my words today, but, man, I am finding resistance to this book; the dark force in this book is stronger than usual! … I know how to write a book, but this book, I went, ‘What?! This is really hard!’” “I want people to say, ‘Look, I know where I’m good, and I also know where I’m not good and I don’t need to be grandiose about either of those things. That’s what I’m working with. That’s the reality that I’m playing with.’ That, to me, has that kind of confidence and humility.” “The longer I’ve been around, the more I see that my answers aren’t as good as I think they are. And the more I’ve been around, the more I say the best thing to do is allow that person to figure their stuff out so that they’re creating new neural pathways.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

David Smith is a wicked problem-solver, collaborative business leader, technologist, and innovative futurist. He has held executive roles in R&D, government, commercial, and academic organizations. David has been named one of the top seven global futurists in the Millennium issue of Business Week. In this conversation, David shares several concepts to help leaders keep up with the present and prepare for the future. He describes wicked problems, and how to bring a team together with the tools to solve them. He is one of two futurists who have been accurate for the first 22 years of the century and is still on track.       Key Takeaways [2:18] David and Jim first met in Austin and found they had a mutual friend in Steve Justice.[3:46] In David’s youth, as a long-haired roadie, he ran audio for the Beach Boys, the Carpenters, and others. David shares a story from that era. [6:18] David solves wicked problems, which are complex problems that have no known solution path. He once had a team of about 200 people over a year make a 45-year wicked problem roadmap for high-energy-density storage for the military. We can store energy now, but not yet at the density that we need. [7:53] Sematech was formed to regain the semiconductor industry back in the United States. They did it. Dave was one of the co-leaders of the first industry roadmap done in the United States. They worked with semiconductor manufacturers, suppliers, academia, and the government to create the roadmap. The commercial sector, academic sector, and government sector acted as a technopolis to enact change. [9:16] Solving wicked problems involves pulling the various stakeholders of commerce, academics, and the government to work together. [10:31] David explains the process of seeing fifty years into the future. He was one of seven futurists who predicted that this century would be defined by bio. All technology is becoming biological. At 22 years in, he’s been pretty accurate. Only one of the other futurists is accurate for today. All the other five have fallen off the table. David explains how he used a framework. [11:20] A leading futurist has changed his future every 14 to 20 months. That’s not forecasting, it’s predicting and then changing his prediction. David uses a method that includes six views of the future: as an extrapolator, a pattern analyst, a goal-setter, a counterpuncher, an intuiter, or an artist. Different techniques are used for each of the views. [12:27] Use people who can work in different views to optimize out errors. David shares a story of a satellite phone company that went to market using only an extrapolation view to forecast sales. In 12 months, they asked David to work with them and get them on track, because his multiple-view forecast of their numbers had been right. [15:32] How can global social issues be solved? David explains that his framework can be applied across the U.S. and even as far as Malaysia. People understand the value of different views. He tells why the front windshield of a car is larger than the rear window; where we’ve been is important but where we’re going is more important. You need to know where you’ve been to be optimized for the future. [18:36] When David interviews people, he asks a standard set of questions and also roleplays. One roleplay involves the interviewee being asked to defend his actions against “one of the world’s leading experts” who disagrees with what the interviewee is doing. That shows David the candidate’s potential for dealing with human dynamics. It reveals competencies and capabilities. [21:46] David suggests something for leaders: They and everyone in their company need to know that we are in a time of lifelong learning and the way we learn is dramatically changing. David is constantly learning and constantly looking at how to learn. One of the six views of the future is counterpuncher. A counterpuncher does a great job of current awareness.  A counterpuncher works scenarios. [23:28] David looks for weak signals. There’s a lag between inventing something at a university and getting it to the marketplace. David uses tools that let him see what research universities are doing. That gives him the advantage of seeing weak, early signals and spending more time researching. He networks with a lot of people in different industries and he’s always learning. He connects the dots. [25:12] Leaders sometimes forget that other industries are having to solve many of the same types of problems. Dave suggests looking at horizontal convergence. Often you can connect the solutions and the data well between industries. Follow David on Twitter. He posts several times a day of early indicators of industries, trends, and research. [26:03] It’s very important to understand that the world is not static. Ask people to help you learn to do new things and prepare for the future. David tells people around the world that he’s an East Texas farm boy. He finds it a great way to get people comfortable talking with him. [27:06] Before going to a research university, David participated in a pilot education program with 21 students at a college outside of Dallas. It was a one-year inquiry program of learning from original source material without textbooks. It forced them to synthesize. Learning to synthesize, plus having great mentors, gave David the greatest advantage in his career. [29:24] We live with “systems of systems.” Your one mobile device has voice communication, data, photography, entertainment, GPS, etc. David suggests thinking of mentors as a system. One mentor for your current role, one mentor for understanding the politics of the company, and one mentor outside your company for understanding entrepreneurship. Make connections and cultivate them as you go. [31:34] Don’t look for a mentor to hold your hand, but one to point to the mountain and let you choose how to climb it to reach the top. Ask for help if you need it, but you need to understand the path yourself. You want a mentor to help stretch your brain, your competencies, and your capabilities. Learn intangibles above technical skills. David would hope you mentor others below you, too. It’s not one-way. [35:28] David’s hiring advice: Hire people who understand the principle of group intelligence. It’s one of the strongest things David looks for in capabilities. If a rockstar candidate does not work well with others, the impact of that candidate will not be sustainable or optimal. [36:23] David’s six views of the future are one of the ways he builds group intelligence. When he hires people, he wants to see if they’re the one who always has to be right or if they play well with others. [36:41] David recommends silent brainstorming to generate ideas. He explains why it brings out better ideas than brainstorming out loud, and how it works, using a customer example. [39:26] Wicked problems are solved using group intelligence, using a technopolis approach, and using the six views approach. The common theme is using the power of people and the power of group intelligence. [40:28] Participation in team sports is an indicator of group intelligence. David looks to see if candidates participate in group hackathons to develop a solution over a weekend with people you don’t work with. David also roleplays to see how the candidates get their information and use group intelligence. [42:28] David agrees with Steve Justice that we need to stand in the future. David says he has to live in the future to survive today. A leader’s job is to help get the roadmap in place for where the company wants to go. A map has multiple possible routes, and it’s not necessarily the leader’s role to pick the route and the detours. It’s to set the vision and help them understand what the future goals are. [43:28] A leader’s role is to help the organization put roadmaps together for technology, services, products, and capabilities. The roadmaps empower the organization to get to its goals. A 100% top-down leadership in today’s global, connected world would be too complicated for one leader. He needs the group intelligence of his teams, suppliers, and other stakeholders to help build the roadmaps. [44:52] David’s closing thoughts: Since the beginning of recorded data, the amount of data has doubled every two years. Because of the quantity of the data, most legacy tech systems will fail. People need to be in the mode of lifelong learning, or they will be left behind. Twenty years ago, we didn’t have web developers or eCommerce. Coming up, robotics and autonomous systems will revolutionize the world. [48:19] Closing quote: “We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.” — Albert Einstein.   Quotable Quotes “When we formed Sematech, our market share in the U.S. had fallen to about 30% globally. That’s a danger point for us. Just like today, … you’re hearing about how the U.S. must regain its semiconductor industry again. Well, we did it back then and it needs to be done again.” “[For] wicked problems, … you’ve got to pull these various stakeholders together. And then you have to use approaches to make sure that what you’re doing is accurate. And what has caused many of these to fail is the use of only a couple of different … views to make it happen.” “I have a framework where we look at six different views of the future. You’re an extrapolator, a pattern analyst, a goal-setter, a counter puncher, an intuiter, or an artist. What makes this system unique is that there are different techniques which go under each of those.” “When we try to tackle hard problems, … we use techniques that go across those different views. … When we do the working groups, I not only want people from the technopolis areas but I want people who have the ability to work in each of the different views of the future.” “Where we’ve been is important but where we’re going is more important.” “One of the first things I want the listeners to understand is that we’re in a time of life-long learning. And it’s not just for leadership but everyone within your company needs to understand that we’re in a time of lifelong learning. And the ways we learn are dramatically changing.” “When you [search], you rarely get any feedback from a university in the search results. But universities are doing a lot of the future science. There’s usually a lead-lag relationship between when something’s invented in a university before it gets to the … marketplace.” “I learn when I talk to people. … I ask questions. I put a scenario out there and say ‘Does it work here?’ and try to understand the answer. The ability for me to be able to work across the different industries I do is, I am a dot-connector.” “Very often, we get so caught up in our vertical industry knowledge, we forget the other industries are having to solve many of the same problems. Maybe a different set of customers, but face the same types of problems. So you need to begin to look at … horizontal convergence.” “We’ve got to change or we would still be plowing fields with pieces of rock.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

Elliott Bisnow is the Co-Founder of Summit, whose family of organizations includes Powder Mountain, Summit Series, and Summit Junto. He’s also a startup investor in 50 companies like Uber, Coinbase, Warby Parker, and Albert. Elliott describes his passion for building companies and cultures, connecting deeply with people on his teams, and building events and communities. He believes that what is good for business should be what is good for the community and the world.       Key Takeaways [2:20] Elliott Bisnow is focused on building companies with a great culture, and teams he loves, connecting deeply with the people who work at the Summit businesses, designing and building events and experiences, and meeting the people that come. He loves building communities and getting to understand them. He loves creating teams he wants to be part of. Elliott is a people person. [4:31] The least important part of any business is caring about profits and making money. Those things come from a well-run business with a great product. Good entrepreneurs, good CEOs, and good leaders are obsessed and focused on the thing that their company is making or selling. Consider why you are an entrepreneur. What are you bringing to the world? Elliott loves designing products. [6:239] Elliott recalls growing up watching MTV’s Cribs and seeing the Forbes 400 list, which he remembers with negative associations. He remembers the first group of entrepreneurs he met who cared about the product, the customers, and the communities they were serving. He contrasts the old business model of profit-seeking with a new business model focused on the good of the community. [11:09] Are new entrepreneurs better people or do they just talk more about what they do in the community than the CEOs of the ’90s talked about? Growing up, Elliott never heard of CEOs doing good in the community. He realized he could build businesses that combine profits and purpose. He says, “Profit Enough. What’s good for our business should be good for the community and the world.” [12:46] It’s a lot more enjoyable to do business when your team is happy, when your community is happy, and when you feel good about what you’re creating. [13:44] Elliott liked college as a place to start a business because you have your dorm, food, and classes even if the business fails. His first two businesses in college didn’t work. His third idea did work so he quit college and moved back in with his parents. He made every possible mistake as he learned how to run a startup. The key is to take small risks and make small mistakes and learn from them. [16:56] Elliott builds community by creating things that allow people to self-select into them, being very defined about its mission. However, once people have self-selected into an event, you can find yourself with a lot of similar voices and little diversity. [19:21] Elliott has kept a notepad on his phone for over 10 years. Anytime he hears something or reads something interesting, he writes a note down. He might write one note in a week or three in a day. He has thousands of notes he re-reads. He receives wisdom from other people in two ways: the first way is by reading one book a week; the second is by meeting people in the flow of life and listening to them. [21:45] Elliott has an 80% rule about conversations. In 80% of his conversations, he tries to ask questions. He will ask a question rather than answer one. He finds wisdom from ordinary people. Between his conversations and reading books, he’s getting a lot of good ideas. [24:59] When Elliott realized he wanted to be an entrepreneur, he read a lot of very simple books about people’s journeys to becoming entrepreneurs. Then he was done reading about entrepreneurs and wanted to go be an entrepreneur. [25:36] Elliott sees that MBA courses would serve people better after the people had experienced some years in business. Elliott spends a lot of time thinking about the books he is going to read. He identifies the types of books he wants to read. He also reads some books for fun. When he meets people that don’t read, he suggests books that are just for fun, to get them to fall in love with reading. [27:31] You have to be in a good mindset to sit and read a business book. Elliott will skip a few pages ahead if he gets bored. He doesn’t get stuck on pages. Reading is a big part of Elliott’s life. [28:30] Elliott discusses the virtues of knowing when to quit and cites Warren Buffet who only makes small mistakes because he knows when to get out of a deal. He’s never been in a massive mistake. [29:27] Elliott’s view on ideas is that it’s quite difficult to come up with good ideas, so you need to create a culture where the most ideas possible can come forward, no matter what they are. That’s a hard environment to maintain when people naturally shoot down ideas or want to take credit for them. Elliott says there’s no limit to what you can achieve if you give other people credit. [32:03] Elliott describes what it means to be a “favor-economy millionaire.” Build up a network of people with whom you trade for services. Having relationships where you and your network can help each other grow is extremely important. [35:05] Being an entrepreneur or a leader is hard. Making money is hard. Saving money is hard. Bartering makes it easier to do business. Relationships are like muscles and the more that you work with them, the more you nurture the relationships. Give to people and it will come back many times over. [36:32] Elliott’s takeaway from his book, Make No Small Plans: Between the life people are living and the life they want to live, there’s a lot of white space. Make No Small Plans, is in the context of the life that you want to live. Step out of anything that’s held you back. Make plans to get to where you want to be. [40:06] Closing quote: “The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function.” — F. Scott Fitzgerald.   Quotable Quotes “When you’re an entrepreneur, you get to create your own culture and your own team.” “The least important part of any business is caring about profits and making money. Those things come from a well-run business with a great product. … Good entrepreneurs, good CEOs, and good leaders are obsessed and focused on the thing that their company is making or selling.” “At the crux of entrepreneurship is, ‘What is the thing that you’re bringing to the world? Why are you an entrepreneur?’” “Just from a personal, selfish standpoint, it’s a lot more enjoyable way to do business when your team is happy, when your community is happy, and when you actually feel really good about what you’re creating.” “My main takeaway is that, as long as your mistakes are small, there’s not very far to fall. … In the early days, the key is taking lots of small risks.” “There’s a lot of emphasis placed on gaining tips and wisdom from super-famous people but I find that there’s just as much wisdom to be had from every person in the world.” “The most important thing about reading is falling in love with reading. And so most people who don’t read, I give them a few books that are just fun.” “You have to be in a good mindset to be able to sit and read a business book. And then I've developed a couple of tricks when it comes to reading, like skipping forward and if things are boring, don’t let it hold you back; don’t get stuck on pages.” “There are certain things where quitting is a virtue and it’s a good skill to have.” “Between the life people want to live, and the life that they’re living, there’s a lot of white space. When I think about Make No Small Plans, it’s in the context of the life that you want to live.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

Kathy Miller is a senior manufacturing executive, professional coach, business transformation advisor, and co-author of “Steel Toes and Stilettos: A True Story of Women Manufacturing Leaders and Lean Transformation Success.” Kathy shares the emotional event that fueled her determination, and the value of prosocial behaviors at work. Kathy also talks about the most meaningful metrics: growth and profitability. She reveals how relationships between leaders and their staff can be maintained, and that showing up authentically is as important to your health as it is for  the health of the organization.   Key Takeaways [3:40] Kathy Miller and Shannon Karels co-authored Steel Toes and Stilettos, published in late 2021. The book talks about prosocial behaviors, which are socially accepted actions that benefit other individuals or communities. Kathy explains prosocial behavior as you being able to contribute to something larger than yourself in your current role. [5:00] Selflessness at work begins with leaders setting the norms in the organization. As leaders display empathy and compassion and connect with employees, employees want to give back. It’s also by taking the workers and connecting them with a larger purpose than the paycheck and benefits, displaying how the work they’re doing connects to the community and makes the world a better place. [6:29] Kathy recalls campaigns in her organizations that showed how the parts they made helped to feed the world or how the cars they made provided safe transportation for families. The majority of people respond to that very positively. The book includes a lot about leading with examples and cues in the workplace that say what you are doing is meaningful. [7:14] Peter Drucker wrote that “The purpose of a business is to create a customer.” Workers are here to get and keep customers. Lean manufacturing starts with providing customer value. Whatever the profession, people want to leave the world a better place than they found it, at the end of the day. [10:15] Taking engineering through a co-op school was a practical way for Kathy to fund her way through college. When she first toured a plant with her father, she was exposed to “whooping and hollering and whistling,” but he told her, “People are people,” and “You’re going to be fine,” so she wasn’t intimidated. She immediately fell in love with the automotive assembly plant. It was challenging for her. [11:52] When Kathy graduated, the plan shut down, after having been in production for 50 years. It was a significant emotional event, very early in her career. All the men followed the last car down the line, not knowing what would happen with their lives. That was one of the things that fueled Kathy to want to go into leadership and help create businesses that wouldn’t have to experience that. [13:05] Kathy went into engineering and marketing, but she missed the factory, so she went back into operations. [13:45] When Kathy was young, she was walking in the factory, in the instrument panel area where most of the women worked, and she thought it would be a “safe” place. Some women called her over to show her a box of chocolates shaped like private parts. Later her supervisor saw she was upset and told her that in manufacturing, she could not wear her heart on her sleeve. She learned never to cry at work! [17:26] With great challenges come great rewards. Jan recalls a guest who said, “A career is made from hard bosses that are terrible and challenges that are impossible! It’s not made from a nice environment.” He was the HR director for Jack Welch. [18:26] Kathy suggests two fundamental metrics for success: growth and profitability. Growing with your customers means focusing on them and meeting their needs. And you have to be profitable to pay the bills. There are subordinate metrics you have to address, but profitability and growth are the greatest. If they’re moving in the right direction with momentum, it shows you have an inclusive environment. [19:49] Whatever metrics you take, boil them down so they are meaningful to the people at their level. You want to drive the right behavior. Any metric can be gamed, so look at an overall business system. Everyone in the organization needs to know how their role contributes to the metrics. [22:14] The almost universal response to the idea of any transformation is, “We are different, unique, and special and that will not work here!” As a leader of a transformation, you have to be able to articulate a vision of the future that people can relate to because most people have not experienced those levels of performance, and those types of systems and processes. [23:43] There is the danger of a “Program of the Month” fatigue in organizations from all the initiatives that come along. Break out of being just another initiative. It takes a lot of perseverance and communication, not varying from your stated goal. The “secret sauce” is that people will implement what they help create. [26:03] It’s impossible to personalize the vision to every individual. People have different motivations. When you are the top leader, you are trying to describe what that vision means for the good of the organization. Kathy relates this to her origin story of watching a plant close and how she doesn’t want that to happen on her watch. Leaders have to show a little vulnerability and how it is personal to them. [27:11] Kathy explains the formal strategy deployment process where the leader shares the vision for the organization and each leader translates it to be meaningful to their area, cascading down to the level of operators. If you’re doing these things correctly, people will see their lives getting better. They’re less frustrated; you’re supporting them and making their work more manageable or better. [28:02] The chapters in Kathy’s book are named after shoes: baby shoes, cowboy boots, steel toes, flip-flops, etc. Kathy explains why different shoes are needed for different stages. With the supply chain challenges and workforce shortages, the working world is at a reset. For Kathy, that means we need cowboy boots (Chapter 2). We need to reset the vision for the next era. [31:24] Kathy tells about her relationship with her co-author, Shannon Karels. Shannon was brought into the team to be a transformation expert. Kathy has seen Shannon grow, contribute, and become highly accomplished. They got to be very close and accomplished things together. Now they talk about how they can model for others the great relationship that they’ve had. It’s the best part of sisterhood! [34:10] Kathy has some guidelines to share on work friendships. The relationship between Shannon and Kathy has grown over time. Now that they do not work together, it has grown a lot more. At work, Kathy is very conscious about not playing favorites. She has great relationships with everybody on her staff and sometimes those involve very hard conversations. Now, Shannon’s son calls her “Aunt Kathy.” [36:21] Kathy carefully managed the optics of friendships between herself and her staff. It is lonely at the top. She would only confide in peers at other organizations, not in members of her team. Shannon was a member of Kathy’s staff and was treated fairly and equally with the other staff members. They became so much closer when they wrote a book together as equals. [38:05] Leaders today should pay attention to showing up for work with authenticity, in Kathy’s view. If you can’t show up authentically, ask yourself “why?” Is this a good fit? It’s not healthy if you can’t show up authentically. It’s not healthy for you, your employees, or the company. [41:23] Jim promises to tell a funny story of how he came to interview at Ford with two black eyes and a broken nose if listeners will put 10 new reviews on Apple Podcasts by the end of the month! [43:04] Closing quote: “The only way you survive is you continuously transform into something else. It’s this idea of continuous transformation that makes you an innovation company.” — Ginni Rometty.   Quotable Quotes “Prosocial behaviors are a component of meaningful work; taking individuals who are providing roles and making sure that they’re connected to the needs of others. It’s just a fancy term for being able to contribute to something larger than yourself in the current role that you’re in.” “What you’re doing is meaningful. You might not be able to see it with that part that you’re assembling but you are connected to a greater purpose.” “Engineers are people, too, right? We all want to, at the end of the day, make a difference in the world, through our talents and our skills.” “I immediately fell in love with the automotive assembly plant. I couldn’t believe that every 60 seconds, a functioning vehicle came off the end of that line. And then, after I’d worked there five years, I was even more fascinated by it, when you see all the challenges.” “I saw very early in my life, the impact of a failed business on the lives of so many people. And so, it really taught me, ‘You have to produce results; you have to be successful; you have to give back and create these strong manufacturing businesses.’” “If you continue to grow with your customers, it means you’re focusing on your customers and their needs and meeting their needs, and other customers are getting attracted to you. And you have to be profitable because you have to pay the bills.” “Metrics need to be visible, and they need to be meaningful, and they need to be connected to the overall mission.” “The strategy deployment process [says] ‘These are the levels we need to be a competitive business,’ and then you let the leaders translate that to what that means to their part of the organization, and cascade it … until it gets to a meaningful level at the operator level.” “Understand, what is the current state? What are the variables, right now, that we have to contend with and how are we going to move all those variables in a positive direction in this post-pandemic era?” “If you can’t marry the values and actions and behaviors of the company with your own moral compass and show up authentically, it’s probably time to ask yourself some hard questions and maybe find somewhere where you can show up … authentically.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Dr. Laura Bokar is the CEO of Fox Valley Institute for Growth and Wellness and the author of “We Need to Talk: 24 Simple Insights for Relationships.” Laura discusses a variety of relationship topics, and points out that home and business relationships are the same… they are human relationships. Laura discusses the nuances of difficult conversations, how relationships fail, and how they can be repaired.    Listen to this episode to learn to nurture relationships and avoid big problems.     Key Takeaways [2:20] Laura credits her fabulous husband, Chuck, for helping her throughout her career and in building Fox Valley Institute as a “silent partner.” [3:47] Difficult conversations create fear and anxiety for some. These conversations are on topics important to us, with high and intense emotions behind them. We have uncertainty about how the other person will respond. Laura suggests staying on track in difficult conversations by first embracing and understanding your emotions, preparing, and practicing. [5:59] Before a difficult conversation, own your emotions, manage them, and understand them. You don’t want two emotional people coming into a room. Be clear about what is important to you to bring up and talk about. In the conversation, affirm the person and the relationship, and then let them know what you want to talk about. Be hard on the issue and soft on the person. [7:09] Listen for content and emotions. Respond to emotions with empathy and validation. Sometimes people bring up unresolved issues from the past. These issues will keep resurfacing until they are made the topic of another necessary difficult conversation. When a person gets overwhelmed, they want to shut down and blame or shame themselves. Address what is overwhelming them. [10:39] Can a difficult conversation be avoided? Ask yourself if it will improve the relationship and if the relationship is important enough for you to want to improve it. Knowing the answer, you can decide whether or not to have that difficult conversation. It’s an investment. Are both of you invested? [12:53] Relationships usually don't degrade with one big lapse but with a bunch of small paper cuts. Laura shares examples of small injuries that hurt relationships. You may not be paying attention to them but they build up and put distance between people. Justifications and excuses create distance in both personal and business relationships because you lose trust. Apologize for the small things. [16:02] Small things may call for difficult conversations. Many things can be resolved by talking about them. It could be a reason you don’t know about, such as having a terminally ill family member. Once you know, you can understand and probably let go of it. The person would probably pivot and get back on track. [17:53] Laura tells how to say you’re sorry in a heartfelt way when you understand how you hurt that person. Let them hear that you get it and that you empathize. If the hurt person wants an explanation you can give it; not to satisfy yourself. [19:57] Laura explains primary and secondary emotions. The primary emotion may be sadness, hurt, shame, or loneliness. Shame is an emotion that can’t live in the light. We don’t want to share it. It’s hard to get it into the conversation. It’s probably connected to something deep in the past. If the issue is shame, recommend professional help. Bringing it to the light with a therapist will mean freedom. [24:00] Many leaders get to know their people, notice when they have a change in performance, and have conversations with them. If there is a home problem, Laura recommends the person talk to a professional. Let them find someone they can talk to about it who is not their boss. Leaders should also have the experience of talking to a therapist; they can tell the employee they’ve done it and it is helpful. [28:09] Be aware of changes that might signal depression and recommend the employee talk to a professional therapist if you see the signs. Depression and anxiety are invisible disorders but when they get to the point where you see behavioral changes, it’s usually pretty bad. [29:14] Different generations manage online situations differently. If you notice a big gap between a person’s personality in person and online, talk with them about it. [31:50] Steven Covey told his divorcing friend to “Love her” instead of divorcing his wife. Laura says that the injuries behind the divorce first have to be identified, understood, and forgiven before love will work. [34:15] We have the Great Resignation. Laura says people needed a change, so they left jobs. Many are going back. The grass wasn’t greener on the other side. Laura suggests before leaving a position have a talk with your manager. It’s a failure in the relationship if the manager is not aware of your dissatisfaction. Invest in work relationships. There is no replacement for spending time with humans. [36:55] Some companies attempted to give big raises to prevent people from leaving. But it wasn’t the money, it was the inadvertent slights that were the problems. Leaders have to be intentional and mindful of those small things. Many slights over a long period will add up. [38:32] Relationships are the most important thing. We need to treasure them, and to do that, we need to spend time with them and commit to them. Understand the person. Ask questions and be curious about who they are, what they like, and what they want to do. [39:06] The important thing about being grateful is to feel it. Laura asks the listener to remember when people were grateful for you and thanked you. Those are thoughts that will create biological change in you and bring out more emotions. Laura says, “So that’s my challenge: is to not just make the list anymore about being grateful, just remember when people were grateful for you.”  [41:38] Closing quote: “Assumptions are the termites of relationships.” — Henry Winkler.   Quotable Quotes “So the uncertainty, the high emotions, and knowing that’s something big we want to talk about, that matters to us; people usually will shy away from that.” “[A difficult conversation is] not very comfortable. It also creates fear and anxiety for people. But the more important piece about why we avoid it is because we’re going to be talking about something that’s important to us and with that, usually, we get high, intense emotions.” “The foundation of it is … owning your emotions and managing them and understanding them so you don’t bring them into the room. Because you don’t want two emotional people coming into a room.” “It’s important to notice [the small stuff], apologize for it, and then you can let go. I don’t want you to sweat over it. Let’s resolve it.” “Many times the grass does look greener on the other side and that is part of the injuries that occur during the relationship. It’s those little things, if there wasn’t a big thing that you know, like an affair. … To just go love someone is difficult if there are injuries.” “Injuries can only be healed if they’re identified, understood, and forgiven as a part of that.” “You need to have those conversations; you need connection. If people aren’t feeling connected, whether at work or in your marriage, people will start looking over their shoulder for the grass to be greener.” “Usually, they say to feel better or to help, think of three or five things to be grateful for before you go to bed or when you wake up. But the more important thing about being grateful is to feel it. … Remember the times when people were grateful for you.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

Gino Wickman is an accomplished entrepreneur and innovator, creator of the EOS system, and author of many books, including Traction and Entrepreneurial Leap. Gino talks about his new book, “Entrepreneurial Leap.”  Gino describes what makes an entrepreneur, and whether you can learn the traits you need. Gino also shares how his early family business venture led to how he created the Entrepreneurial Operating System® (EOS®). Gino reveals that timing is not as important as adaptability. Products will always change. Customers will always have needs. Lastly, Gino offers a free assessment to see if you are an entrepreneur-in-the-making, or an entrepreneurial leader. Listen in for a fascinating lesson on the essence of entrepreneurship.     Key Takeaways [2:26] Gino Wickman talks about balance and his passions of simple things. He’s obsessed with entrepreneurs in his working life and pursues his passions in his personal life. [5:08] Do you have what it takes to be an entrepreneur? Every entrepreneur is a leader. Gino urges leaders who aren’t entrepreneurs to open their minds to the possibility of being entrepreneurial leaders. Gino’s life work is helping entrepreneurs and entrepreneurial leaders. At EOS, they are working with entrepreneurial leadership teams who run businesses of 10 to 250 persons. [6:12] Entrepreneurial Leap is for entrepreneurs who are about to take an entrepreneurial leap or who just took it and are in the startup phase. [6:37] Six essential traits make an entrepreneur:1.) Visionary, 2.) Passionate, 3.) Problem-solver, 4.) Driven, 5.) Risk-taker, and 6.) Responsible. [6:55] If you have these inborn traits, you are either an entrepreneur or an entrepreneur-in-the-making. If you are a leader with a few of these traits, you are in the right place and are an entrepreneurial leader. You’re probably not going to take the risk to start a business and that’s all OK. [7:20] The reason Gino wrote Entrepreneurial Leap is that being an entrepreneur is the new rockstar and everyone wants to be an entrepreneur. It’s not for everyone. It’s not all it’s cracked up to be. If you take the entrepreneurial leap without having the six essential traits, you will be miserable for years and lose all your money. Gino breaks hearts and saves lives with the news! [8:21] Gino explains the six essential traits cannot be learned; you have to be born with them. Every true entrepreneur he knows agrees and has these six essential traits. He hopes he’s wrong but he doesn’t think he is! [9:20] How do entrepreneurs differ in their decision-making, taking on risks responsibly? A risk-taker knows the odds are that they are going to fail; they are willing to fail, depending on themselves 100% for income, and taking total responsibility for the outcome. [13:54] When Gino took the leap to create EOS he was armed with two thoughts: He saw the needs of entrepreneurs, mismanaging their businesses, and saw nothing but opportunity. He believed he could help them — he had no idea how! He burned so much with the passion to connect the dots that he threw himself out there and simply figured it out. Most people would not take the risk. [15:48] Gino discusses the meaning of risk. Is it as big a risk if you are well-prepared for it? Gino notes there is an entrepreneurial range, from one-person side hustle to the greatest entrepreneur in the world and every entrepreneur fits in that range. Large risks or small, there are always risks. [18:17] Timing matters. In 1,000 years of entrepreneurial history, two things have always changed: products and services and methods of communication. Two things have never changed: People have wants and needs and you have to persuade them. Gino contrasts the too-early Newton with the iPhone that revolutionized the world 15 years later as an example of timing. [19:58] When Gino built EOS Worldwide, the coaching industry exploded. His timing was perfect. Steve Jobs and Bill Gates had perfect timing with software and computers. Entrepreneurs have to evolve with the times, keeping an ear to the ground and always knowing what the customer wants and needs. Be agile and adaptable. [22:50] Even with perfect timing for a product, the customer’s wants and needs will change. The true entrepreneur will evolve to continue meeting those wants and needs. The person who got lucky with timing but does not evolve will be out of business in two to ten years. [24:46] Gino offers a free assessment at e-leap.com to determine if you have the six essential traits. [25:26] Gino wrote The EOS Life, which teaches the five points of how to live your ideal life. In that book, Gino shares energy management advice to help you live a balanced life doing what you love with people you love, making an impact, and making lots of money, with passion. Gino has launched a new platform around the ten disciplines for managing and maximizing your energy. [26:42] Gino shares the 10 disciplines for managing and maximizing your energy: 1.) 10-year thinking, 2.) Take time off, 3.) Know thyself, 4.) Be still, 5.) Know your 100% working time, 6.) Say no often, 7.) Don’t do $25/hour work 8.) Prepare every night, 9.) Put everything in one place, 10.) Be humble. [27:25] Gino’s platform for The 10 Disciplines is found at . The disciplines are how he manages and maximizes his energy. [28:40] The 10 disciplines assume you are a driven individual taking care of yourself. One principle is that you should never do anything you can pay somebody $25 an hour to do. Do high-value work and give the rest to employees. Gino hasn’t looked at his email for 20 years. Email sucks his energy. He’s on the move, he’s creative, he’s creating, he’s teaching, he’s helping, and his energy is high. [32:04] How do you maximize the benefit of having a mentor? Gino believes mentorship is a speed pass to success. He was blessed with two amazing mentors. His Dad, Floyd Wickman, was his people mentor for communication and leadership. Sam Cupp was his business mentor for running a company. Gino borrowed his father’s book, Mentoring, for the mentoring part of The 10 Disciplines. [33:00] Gino teaches you how to find a mentor but first, you have to decide where you want to be. Go and find the person who is where you want to be. There’s one out there who wants to pass on their wisdom and their legacy. Go work for them for free, attach yourself to them, and learn from them. Ask them if they will mentor you. Gino teaches how. Only about half of entrepreneurs have had mentors. [34:06] As a protege of a mentor, the two greatest things you can do to keep your mentor coming back are to thank them often and share with them how you’re applying what they’re teaching. Share the results. They are trying to pass on their legacy, and you can help them do it. [35:13] Gino delegates $500 an hour jobs to free himself for higher-value work. Once a quarter he delegates something big. He decided he needed to delegate his company, EOS. He did a five-year search for the right successor. The day after closing, he moved on to pursue his passion, which was creating Entrepreneurial Leap and now, The 10 Disciplines. Gino is just going to keep on creating stuff. [38:55] Gino uses his arms to communicate. He’s Italian! His gestures are energy shooting out of his body.  [40:55] Gino says most entrepreneurs are insecure. Gino was insecure at 18 but is more confident now. Gino quotes Daniel Kennedy, “We teach what we need the most.” Gino has always taught what he needed the most. Around age 40, Gino fully believed he deserved his optimal life and that’s what he teaches. [46:22] Closing quote: “There are many talented people who haven’t fulfilled their dreams because they overthought it or they were too cautious and were unwilling to make the leap of faith.” — James Cameron.   Quotable Quotes “Being an entrepreneur is the new rockstar. So in the 70s and 80s, everyone wanted to be a rockstar. Nowadays, everybody wants to be an entrepreneur! And it’s not for everyone, it’s not all it’s cracked up to be.” “This is a cautionary tale. I’m trying to find the 4% that are [entrepreneurial] and help the 96% that aren’t, realize ‘This is not the career for me!’ … People are taking entrepreneurial leaps; they don’t have the six essential traits, and they are miserable!” “True entrepreneurs with these six essential traits are borderline clinically crazy! We are not sane people! We’re not talking about sane people here. … It’s about just being comfortable taking the leap without having all of the answers!” “It’s a little scary and I never wanted to fail — never wanted to fail! But I have failed; it sucks! I licked my wounds when I failed but I picked myself up and I go! And for those that get paralyzed at the thought of taking a leap, you probably should not do this!” “I’m thinking of Steve Jobs when he came out with this hand-held device way too early, only to come out with it 15 years later and it revolutionized the world. So, there’s an example of timing.” “Never do anything you can pay somebody $25 an hour to do, … like checking your email, scheduling, booking travel, cutting your lawn, doing handy work. … Every hour you pay somebody $25 … to free yourself up to do $100, $200, $500, $1,000 an hour work, you are printing money.” “As a protege of a mentor, the two greatest things you can do to keep your mentor coming back: 1.) Thank them often. 2.) Share with them how you’re applying what they’re teaching. Share the results.” “My message to people is ‘You deserve to live your optimal life, and even further, it’s selfish not to because if you do it, you’re going to impact and change so many lives, you’re going to help me fix the world.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Entrepreneurial FREE entrepreneurial assessment  

Richard Newman is the Founder and CEO of BodyTalk. In 21 years, Richard’s team has trained over 100,000 business leaders globally to improve their communication and impact. Richard learned recently that he is high-functioning on the autism spectrum; and he feels it blessed him by guiding his life in a deep exploration of communication. He shares how he teaches the hero’s journey to improve storytelling in meetings. Richard tells of the importance of nonverbal behaviors and of a research study he conducted with University College London on the effectiveness of postures and nonverbal behavior in projecting leadership qualities. Richard has great advice for leaders on lifting others to become the best versions of themselves.   Key Takeaways [2:24] If Richard had been taller or a better player, he may have become a professional basketball player. He was sort of born in the wrong country. When he comes to the U.S., he loves going to watch basketball. There’s not much of a basketball industry in the UK. [4:11] At age 17, Richard taught 11-year-olds at his school how to play basketball, to keep up with other schools. He thought of going into teaching. He went to a monastery in India on a gap program and taught the monks English, using only a chalkboard, body language, and tone of voice. At the end of the first lesson they could confidently speak a few English words and they loved it. He taught for six months. [7:30] Richard learned from teaching English that to communicate well, he had to have congruency between his body language, his tone of voice, and his words. To teach the word “excited” he had to sound and look excited. Congruency is one of the key elements of great communication. That principle became foundational to BodyTalk, the company he founded. [8:56] Richard learned Nepali in India, the easiest dialect of the three languages spoken in the city where the monastery was located. He became more fluent in Nepali than in the French or German he had learned in school. [10:44] The biggest communication error is to treat people as human “doings” rather than human beings. Presentations seek to engage the logical mind. Studies show that the emotional brain engages first, and then sends a memo to the logical brain telling it what to notice. Before a meeting (or email), ask yourself, “How do I need people to feel by the end of this meeting (or email)?” [13:32] Everybody talks about storytelling; they know they need it, but few people understand what it is. Robert McKee says when you listen to a piece of music, you don’t automatically think you would be a great composer. When thinking of storytelling, why do you assume you would be a great storyteller? There is a framework you can learn to be able to tell stories well. [14:11] Storytelling allows us to give people information in the way the brain wants to receive it, engaging the survival mind, the emotional mind, and then, finally, the logical mind. Joseph Campbell’s The Hero With A Thousand Faces introduced this structure in 1949 after having studied how people of different civilizations that never had contact with each other have told stories through the centuries. [15:01] Christopher Vogler in the 1980s reduced Campbell’s 17-steps of the hero’s journey into 12 steps. Richard Newman has simplified those steps into five sections that his company teaches people to use for composing an email or making a presentation. [15:30] If you want to cascade information, frame an important message, or pitch your business, learn the power of storytelling. Richard tells of a client who went from a win rate of one in four to a 100% win rate in the space of a year, getting over a billion dollars of new business. Frame the information to engage the survival and emotional brain, the logical brain, and then get people to take action at the end. [16:50] Jim Carey said that constantly talking isn’t necessarily communicating. The way to turn any information into a more engaging story is to add in moments of feelings. Describe the feelings the facts give you. Start with your goal in mind. What feeling would people need to have for them to take the action you would persuade them to take? [21:50] Richard offers a tip on how to lose your self-consciousness and gain confidence. Before a meeting, get centered within yourself; have internal validation. Then, going into the room, focus entirely on what is happening outside of you, so you are always thinking, “How do I serve them? How do I make sure they understand? How do I get them to this feeling by the end of the conversation?” [27:41] People going through the Great Resignation are questioning their values and what they want their life to be about. Businesses sometimes have to make a hard decision because the easy one doesn’t match their values. Choosing the easy path may give a short-term gain but it leads to long-term pain. People will follow you if they see you don’t compromise your values for short-term benefits. [30:00] Richard learned recently that he is high-functioning autistic.  He had a sense of sudden understanding. He’d known since he was a child he could not connect with his peers but didn’t know why. He developed a passion for studying communication. As a teen, he read over 200 books on it, including nonverbal communication. He went to a professional acting school. He sees it as a blessing. [33:20] Jan refers to previous guest Tim Cole as a great storyteller. [34:12] Richard teaches behaviors that can increase leadership success by 44%. He developed these behaviors while giving over 1,000 presentations to a Formula 1 team. It was the same presentation with different statistics after each race, to different audiences. He started noticing what worked universally and teaching it to clients. They went to University College London to get it scientifically validated. [35:57] They worked with researcher Dr. Adrian Furnham, Head of Psychology. They developed an 18-month study using 100 videos of the same speech, with different speakers, using variations in the nonverbal behavior of the speaker, from the most common gestures to the ones that should give the appearance of leadership.[37:09 Dr. Alastair McLelland, the statistician, had never seen results like it! From the most common behaviors to the most effective behaviors, there was a 44% difference in the appearance of leadership. The best behaviors would change the number of people voting for you by 59%! Standing centered looks competent while leaning to one side, swaying, or walking back and forth gives poor ratings. [39:30] If you’re speaking to a group, people want to know that you, as their tribe leader, can honestly lead the group. If they see gravitas, they will believe you; if they see a pushover, they will not. If they believe in you, they will engage with your message and follow you. Amy Cuddy’s TED Talk on body language says if you stand or sit in a way that shows confidence, your confidence hormones rise. [42:53] Watching the early Democrat presidential debates in 2020, Richard spotted that Kamala Harris got the most emotional reactions from the audience. She didn’t win the nomination, but Biden picked her to run with him for her emotional appeal. Richard doesn’t recommend going for a negative response! [45:36] Being positive doesn’t mean covering up bad facts. It is always better to dig into the truth of the situation. If things are going poorly, then it’s important to state that. If people have challenges, you want to acknowledge and discuss those and show that you care about them. People often forget to recognize challenges while they tell a story. People’s challenges could disconnect them from the story. [46:08] Start from the sense that everybody cares about challenges and everybody cares about having a better future. We all have this pain/pleasure mechanism. Make sure you represent those. Go in with a sense of empathy rather than making those negative feelings worse. [47:04] Is showing a bad temper justifiable? Richard answers with a customer service experience he had. He recommends using the power of “lift,” where you aim to lift the conversation. Before you go into the room. lift yourself to show up as your best version. Then go into the meeting and see the best version of them. They will want to live up to this. Leaders can encourage their team by seeing the best in them. [50:46] Jim’s last words: There is nothing more powerful as a leader you can do for your team than to see their greatness. Don’t show up as the hero. Lead them to be heroes; show up as their mentor. [52:03] Jan invites all listeners to give a listen to Corporate Competitor Podcast, hosted by Don Yaeger. [52:53] Jim closes with a quote: “Outstanding leaders go out of their way to boost the self-esteem of their personnel. If people believe in themselves, it’s amazing what they can accomplish.” — Sam Walton.   Quotable Quotes “By the time I got to be 17, I thought, … ‘I’m going to teach the 11-year-olds at our school how to play basketball so they don’t get beaten to pieces in their first game as we did.’ So I started doing that. I loved that. I loved how much they gained from it.” “[The monks and I] would sit together in the evenings after they came back from going out and doing prayers in the town, … and I would then aim to teach them how to speak English, and had to do it completely using body language and tone of voice.” “[Congruency] is one of the key elements of great communication. When you have congruency, it becomes very charismatic but also much easier for people to pay attention, to listen to you, and to understand what you really mean.” “You need to make sure you’ve got hearts and minds. You need to make sure you’ve engaged people emotionally first, then logically, and then they’re more likely to follow you as a leader.” “What storytelling allows us to do is to give people information in the way the brain wants to receive it, engaging the survival [mind], then the emotional mind, and then, finally, the logical mind.” “If people know how to use storytelling day-to-day, it’s incredible how it increases your influence, and you can use it in a 30-second conversation, … or you can see this in a three-hour movie, or you can use it for a two-day conference that you’re hosting, as well.” “If you’re speaking to a group, we want to know, as our tribe leader, can you honestly lead this group? If you’ve got gravitas, we believe it, if you’re a pushover, we don’t.” “It is always worthwhile digging into the truth of the situation. If things are going poorly, then it’s important to state that. If people have challenges, you want to acknowledge those, and discuss those, and show that you care about them.” “When people can’t see the best version of themselves, see it in them for them, and by doing so, you give them an open door to become a lifted part of themselves.” “You’re seeing the greatness within them and allowing them to go on the journey, and that’s what great leaders can do, they can lift everybody else to perform at their best.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Sandra Stosz is the author of “Breaking Ice and Breaking Glass: Leading in Uncharted Waters.” Sandra is a retired U.S. Coast Guard Vice Admiral who served for over 40 years, including 12 years at sea. She often led all-male teams and was the first woman to lead a U.S. Armed Forces Service Academy. In this episode, Sandra shares with humility some of the leadership lessons she learned in the Coast Guard. She shares humorous stories, and reveals things she learned early that shaped her remarkable career, and why she baked cakes for her staff!     Key Takeaways [1:36] Jim introduces Vice Admiral Sandra Stosz, Retired, tells of her background, and welcomes her to The Leadership Podcast. [2:08] Sandra’s nephew Hunter Stosz is a Lieutenant in the Coast Guard, serving as the Combat Systems Officer on the Coast Guard National Security Cutter JAMES out of Charleston, S.C. Hunter was a cadet at the Coast Guard Academy when Sandra was the Superintendent. That was his leadership crucible! [3:01] Sandra’s hobby is baking cakes! She would bring them into the office and give people a break to stop what they were doing and gather in the conference room to talk and laugh. [4:35] Sandra talks about the Coast Guard Academy, where she was Superintendent from 2011 to ’15, and the Loy Institute for Leadership. She retired from the Coast Guard in 2018 but she is a trustee of the Loy Institute for Leadership, which is the Academy’s agent for leadership development. [6:16] The Coast Guard Academy, like all the service academies, is a 200-week program, meaning four full years of school. A lot of the Academy’s leadership development happens during the summer. Training is given through a framework called LEAD: Learn from theory, Experience through practice, Analyze using reflection, and Deepen understanding from mentoring. [7:09] It’s a virtuous cycle of leader development. It starts with cadets learning in a classroom from Posner and Kouzes’s Leadership Challenge for leadership theory. Then they put the cadets on the water for experiential leadership development through seamanship in sailing programs, and small boat practice, all on the water. The more senior cadets use a practicum that tells them how to instruct. [8:19] After a day on the water, the cadets analyze through reflection. They sit down and “hotwash” what happened; what they want to repeat next time, what they want to avoid next time, and what they learned. Then the cadets deepen their understanding through mentoring. Everybody who learns continues to mentor somebody else, making it a virtuous cycle. [8:48] Sandra shares a story of leadership learning. The cadets sailing a ship tacked suddenly without warning the cook in the galley, the only female cadet on board. Hotdogs flew all over the deck and what seemed funny to the cadets on deck upset the cook who felt laughed at and disrespected. Leadership also means inclusion and respect. [11:18] You can learn to lead through practical experience. The Coast Guard Academy collects data from performance reviews to measure leadership development over the four-year program. It’s hard to measure leadership development over four years but they are on a mission to do that and they are getting closer every month. [12:15] The Coast Guard Academy LEAD framework is built upon the Coast Guard framework of leading self, leading others, and leading the organization. Cadets learn to lead themselves and lead others. They do not advance to leading the organization at the Academy. Sandra tells a story of a cadet who carelessly filled the fuel tank with water. He will never do that again, having learned by experience. [15:12] Officers in the Coast Guard learn to lead the organization, which is strategic. Sandra has seen senior leaders fall short and fail when they did not mature from tactical thinking to strategic thinking. Strategy is looking over the horizon to anticipate threats that might come over that horizon, and then adjust, adapt, and be agile. [16:15] At the organizational level, you face crises where the easy decisions and actions have been made at the lower levels; if it ends up in your hands, it is a big decision. You’ve got to be strategic and decisive. A lot of people aren’t strategic or are not decisive. They haven’t learned how to move from leading others to making decisions that affect the organization and how the organization relates to others. [17:59] Jim highly recommends Sandra’s book. It addresses the balance between power and control. Sandra speaks of the responsibility of the individual and the team to find ways to power through crisis and adversity. There is leadership at all levels. It’s not just about the top boss. Sandra mentions Extreme Ownership. [19:50] It is popular now to blame others for everything wrong so you don’t have to own up to it. Sandra was thinking about that when she wrote her book. She was grateful when someone gave her a Serenity Prayer plaque at a difficult point in her career. She was trying to control everything and having trouble letting go of things she couldn’t control. She carried that prayer to every duty station. [20:50] The balance between control and power reminds Sandra of Aristotle's Golden Mean, which is the balance between extremes. The most powerful thing you can do is release your control and give your power away. Giving power away empowers others. You don’t lose anything by giving power away. You gain the respect and trust of those you empower. [22:12] Control originates from humility and power originates from hubris. Sandra explains why humility is hard to maintain as you advance in rank. The more senior she became, she tried hard to build trust and earn respect and not use her position of power. [23:59] Sandra shares a story on the paradox of control about giving away power. Her Captain gave his power to her, a young lieutenant, to give an important brief to a Commandant of the Coast Guard. She had never given a speech before! For the rest of her career, she worked to give her power away to younger officers. [27:26] Jan cites an Arthur Brooks article, “Being special vs. happy: What success addiction looks like and how to recover,” that discusses motivation and happiness. What would Sandra’s advice be to her 27-year-old self? She would tell her younger self that prevention comes before response and remember the importance of establishing boundaries. [31:41] The four types of exhaustion or wellness are physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual. Don’t allow yourself to be exhausted in all four of these areas at the same time! You can manage your wellness with a structure of boundaries built on a foundation of values. If you can’t manage your wellness, you can’t manage your team’s wellness. [36:15] One of the chapters of Sandra’s book is “There’s no secret ingredient.” — Kung Fu Panda. Sandra sees 10 leadership lessons in Kung Fu Panda and Kung Fu Panda 2.[37:26] Sandra shares a foundational story from serving on her first ship, an icebreaker sailing to Antarctica. She learned the Three Ps of Power: Personal, Professional, and Positional. Lean on the first two and go to the third only as a last resort. Your personal power is your EQ. Your professional power is your work ethic and values. Your positional power is your rank or leadership role. [39:44] Use your personal and professional power every day and you will build trust and earn respect. People will want to do their jobs because they feel like they’re part of something bigger than themselves, they feel shared values, they know their purpose, they have pride and passion, and they want to end each day deeply content, satisfied, and feeling good about themselves, their work, and life. [41:12] Leadership is not all in a textbook. It’s hard to learn it and hard to teach it. If you're trying to understand leadership and finding it not easy, your symptoms are normal. Jan shares a message with new listeners. Jan and Jim use the tagline, “We study leaders.” After interviewing 300 leaders, we’re still learning. It will be our lifelong pursuit. [43:02] Sandra’s advice for people in transition from one chapter of their life to the next: Watch out for becoming part of another “me” generation. The people who will be happiest, in the long run, will be are going to look at how they can contribute as part of a bigger purpose with values that they share. They’re going to persevere. They’re going to put in more than they take out. They're going to be contributors. [45:20] Sandra’s last words are about life-long learning. She stayed for 40 years in the Coast Guard because it gave her opportunities to train, advance, and go to the Kellogg Business School, the National War College, and a Capstone program. She continues to read and develop herself. Life-long learning is key to your ability to succeed in a meaningful way. [47:06] Jan closes with a quote from Amelia Earhardt on the decision to act.   Quotable Quotes “Every once in a while, you need a reason to laugh when you’re at work and you’re in a really tough job. I think the cakes helped build that camaraderie and that’s one thing I like about in-person workplaces.” “We expect the cadets to make a mistake when they’re learning how to lead themselves. It’s trial and error. And this is the time when we give them leeway to fail and pick themselves up, and make mistakes, admit them, and try not to repeat them.” “I’ve seen senior leaders fall short and even fail if they keep on with the behaviors that made them successful while leading self and leading others and they move into leading the organization but don’t mature to strategic thinking.” “Be strategic and be decisive. A lot of times, people … haven’t learned how to move from leading others to making decisions that affect an organization, ... the programs, and how that organization relates to others. … Move up into the strategic decision-making realm.” “Type “A”s out there, hear me! You want to control everything and it can drive you crazy. And if you don't let it go it will burn you out.” “The most powerful thing you can do is to release your control and release your power and give your power away.” “The best leaders cultivate their humility, which is really hard to do as you advance up in the ranks. Whether it’s the military or if it’s a private sector, or public non-profit, the more senior you get, people are treating you a little differently up in the ranks.” “What you should be seeking is deep contentment and satisfaction. That comes with a different way of looking at life. It comes from balancing and this becomes the response.” “People never make good choices; they always have to learn from experience, right?” “So many people are in the leadership space and trying to teach leadership and it’s not easy. … If you are trying to understand leadership, how to be a better leader, and finding it not easy, your symptoms are normal.” “The people who are going to be happiest, in the long run, … look to find out how they can contribute as part of a bigger purpose with values that they share. … They’re going to persevere. They’re going to put in more than they take out. They're going to be contributors.” “Lifelong learning is key to your ability to succeed in a meaningful way where you’re meeting all of your objectives and you’re staying motivated. Otherwise, you lose the meaning of life if you don’t continue to focus on life-long learning.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Stephen Drotter is Chairman of the Leadership Pipeline Institute and lead author of “The Leadership Pipeline.” Stephen has worked on succession planning and the related disciplines of organization design, executive assessment, and leadership development for over 50 years. He has helped over 100 companies in 37 countries with succession planning as a management discipline.    In his newest book, “Pipeline to the Future: Succession and Performance Planning for Small Business,” Stephen captures the learnings for meeting the challenges of small business. Steven explains the importance of the simplicity that comes on the other side of complexity. This episode is jam-packed with advice for leaders at all levels - an episode not to miss!     Key Takeaways [1:44] Jim tells about Stephen Drotter’s background, including his latest book, Pipeline to the Future: Succession and Performance Planning for Small Business, and welcomes him to the show. [2:46] Stephen likes to dig to the bottom of things and does not accept superficial responses or thinking. He goes for simplicity on the other side of complexity. He tells about firing companies and why he does it. He works with companies that want outcomes. Process matters but outcomes matter more! [4:56] A good leader creates leaders for succession planning. Stephen tells why it is hard for some companies. Many companies don’t choose to do the work for succession planning. Every position needs to be accounted for in the planning. [6:47] If you can’t produce a good first-line manager, you can’t produce a CEO. There’s a lot to know and a lot to do, and it’s a lot of work. That’s the complaint Stephen hears. Most executives work more with their numbers than they do with their people. [7:21] Managers are working at the wrong level. For example, promoting a top salesperson to a leadership position does not make the salesperson a good sales trainer. If sales numbers rise, it is misleading. The other salespeople aren’t developing if the first-line manager isn’t measured on leadership. Working at the wrong level is the most common problem Stephen sees. [9:19] Stephen tells how to pick leaders and measure their performance, not their sales figures. Leadership performance is about developing leaders under you. Is your team better this year than last year? A leader sets the direction. You need to provide leaders with what they need to be able to lead, including the knowledge of how the company is doing and where it’s going so they can support it. [11:19] Jack Welch liked to skip all the layers of management that he could and engage people at lower levels by going to their training courses at Crotonville and engaging the students directly.  A mechanism for communication is a huge piece of building leaders. [13:20] Are your criteria for picking leaders fair? First, distinguish between performance and potential. Judge potential by how people think and how they are viewed by their peers. What kinds of questions do they ask? If they ask questions at a higher level than their role, they must be thinking about it. Who are the people who think beyond today’s task? They’re the ones who become more efficient. [16:02] Stephen talks about the responsibility of the employee for development. The company has the key because they assign the jobs that will develop the employee. The employee has their interest, their questioning, their learning, and the way they complete assignments. Are they learning the business and the company or just their job? An employee has to be willing to stick their neck out and take some risk. [18:15] Stephen tells why he calls competency models nonsense. He says they are not relevant to the work. [20:42] Training should be differentiated by the student. Students at different management levels need different training. The training needs to apply to the company and what improvements are needed. [22:00] HR is not tuned in to what is needed at the business level; it focuses on the people, not the business. HR should be creating an agenda they use to drive the business. [24:47] Stephen tells about his passion for small business and why he wrote his latest book. He tells how he moved from large companies to consulting for large companies, to studying small companies for lenders. About 90% of Americans work for small companies. But nobody writes management resources for small companies. So Stephen wrote a book for them. [29:48] The management needs of small and large companies are surprisingly quite similar but how you meet the needs of small and large companies is remarkably different. Stephen gives an example and  He shares an anecdote from working with a big company. He offended the CEO! [35:13] Employees want to be fulfilled. Management wants production. Stephen shares thoughts on how people have changed. The important thing is to set goals and accomplish them. That’s what helps you succeed. [37:59] Stephen shares more about leadership pipelines; it’s how to run the business and set goals. He explains what the technology pipeline is. [42:00] Jan encourages listeners to listen to this conversation again and take notes. This topic is very different from the usual episodes. [42:38] Stephen shares his last thoughts. There are the workers, the communication patterns, and the work. Start with the work and the rest will make sense. All businesses have to compete.   Quotable Quotes “I like to dig down to the bottom of things. I have a hard time with superficial responses and superficial thinking, you know, the bumper-sticker-type leadership advice.” “There’s simplicity and then there’s complexity, and there’s simplicity on the other side of complexity. I go for that simplicity on the other side of complexity. And so, it’s time-consuming.” “Process matters but outcomes matter more.” “We’ve known how to do [succession planning] for 50 years, so there’s no longer an excuse. People just don’t want to do the work.” “Think of a pipeline that’s broken at the point where the pipeline goes into the material you’re going to pump. That very first piece is broken. What do you think’s going to come out the back? Nothing!” “Most succession systems are broken at the bottom. If you can’t produce a good first-line manager, you can’t produce a CEO. You’re going to have to get him someplace else. It’s not in the culture. People don’t understand that developing themselves and others is important.” “To work at the right level takes a lot of personal discipline to move away from the stuff that you like and into the stuff that you have to do.” “The top [level] needs to spend more time with the bottom [level]. That’s one of the very big, important disciplines.” “A mechanism for communication is a huge piece of building leaders.” “It’s not possible to define the potential for someone to go higher than you are.” “You may be entitled to a promotion because you earned it, but you’re not entitled to a promotion because you showed up today.” “When I started consulting, I stayed with big companies because they can pay..” “There’s such a thing as management risk. You have the wrong management structure and the wrong management people; you’re putting your business at serious risk.” “If you want to have development happen, pick a job you don't want, working for a boss who doesn't want you. There will be real development.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Deepa Purushothaman is an author, speaker, leader, and Co-founder of nFormation. Deepa challenges and redefines the status quo of leadership, success, and power by centering on the needs and experiences of women of color. Deepa shares her journey from executive to thought leader and how her sabbatical to recover her health, combined with her study of policy led her to interview over 500 women of color in senior positions about the microaggressions and racism they have experienced in the corporate world. She gave them a voice in her book, The First, The Few, The Only: How Women of Color Redefine Power in Corporate America. She talks about her experiences teaching leaders to listen carefully to the women of color in their organizations to learn how work is not working for them, shares her suggestions to women of color on how to react to racist situations, and explains to executives how to talk about them when they occur. We are in a moment where people are open to uncomfortable conversations, and willing to change what should be changed. Deepa is excited for the work of the future where women of color will feel included and heard.     Key Takeaways [1:45] Jan shares Deepa Purushothaman’s background. After leaving Deloitte, Deepa co-founded nFormation, a membership-based community for professional women of color, helping place them in C-suites and on boards. Deepa’s first book, The First, The Few, The Only: How Women of Color Redefine Power in Corporate America, was published in March 2022 to international acclaim. [2:28] Jan welcomes Deepa to The Leadership Podcast. Deepa left corporate America during the pandemic, just before the Great Resignation. People told her she was crazy to leave a secure position. She says you leap sometimes and it just works out. [3:37] Deepa tells why she left the corporate world. She was done with her corporate career and needed a break. She wanted to do something around women of color. At the time, people thought COVID-19 would be just a couple of weeks. [5:03] Deepa spent 21 years in corporate roles at Deloitte. Toward the end of her career, she was very sick and spent eight months in bed. She started to see the importance of health and asked herself what place she wanted work to take in her life. She had a big value shift. [7:18] Deepa shares her tips for living a good life in a corporation. It takes very intentional work, protecting your time, and accepting that you may not rise fast in the company. [8:38] Before resigning, Deepa had taken an eight-month leave of absence for illness. After 15 doctors, she was diagnosed with late-stage Lyme disease. Eight months of unplugging from the system helped her see she could have a family and other things outside the firm. She figured out how she wanted to redesign her life and what she needed to recharge. Being able to do that was a gift. [11:18] Deepa had had a growing sense of purpose about policy — that was her major in school — and that, combined with her sick-leave sabbatical, gave her a new direction for her life. [13:08] Deepa found similarities between working at a large corporation and a small to medium business. She interviewed mainly VP-level and above. The women would say they had finally gotten to their seat of power and they didn’t feel powerful. A lot of the women of color Deepa interviewed talked about erasing or hiding parts of themselves to get to the table in any size of business. [14:02] Many women of color grew up as “onlies” and didn’t see themselves represented in the media or among leaders. So there’s a question of belonging and having to find your voice. We’re trying to figure out what leadership looks like for us because we don’t see it around us. [14:55] Deepa listed in her book twelve different challenges that women of color executives face. At the top of the list, it’s not seeing yourself represented and having to find your voice. The sense of “first, few, and only” is really different. There’s a deep sense of isolation. Deepa lists other differences that affect women of color more than anyone else, including chronic illnesses and the extra work they have to do. [18:19] One woman of color Deepa interviewed edits how she talks, dresses, styles her hair, and what she eats because she is the only woman of color in her company and her community, and she wants to present all black people in the best light possible. Executive women of color are asked to mentor many women of color because they are the only ones in their company or industry in senior positions. [22:08] Deepa interviewed Vernā Myers of Netflix, who told her how offputting airplane overhead storage compartments are for women with small children who might get hit with falling luggage. Deepa notes similarly that workplaces weren’t designed with all people in mind. The corporate model of the family, with one person working and the other raising children, has never been updated. [24:11] Many of the women of color in the book shared microaggressions that had been said to them. Deepa notes a few that were said to her two or three times daily. Some women were told they were “articulate” on a daily basis. It made them feel like they didn’t belong. No one heard people say to a white man that he was articulate. [26:16] About the Senate Panel Vote for Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson. Deepa has written an Op-Ed about it that drew a lot of attention. Despite being overqualified, her credentials were questioned. Most of the women Deepa interviewed said they had to be two or four times as good as their counterparts just to be credible or to get the opportunity. Judge Jackson had to smile through derogatory comments. [28:33] Deepa tells how she handled it when people asked her if she was in a meeting to take notes or pour the coffee when she was the senior person in the room. She contrasts that with how she would handle her feelings about the same situation today. [31:56] How does Deepa address systemic issues at a Fortune 100 company? She meets with an executive team and is very open and blunt. Some executives tell Deepa they have solved these problems, then Deepa speaks with Black and Brown employees and hears a list of challenges and concerns. Deepa talks with companies about starting on a journey that will take a while. [35:12] Deepa is optimistic that executives are listening differently and if we are to change how work works for everybody, now is the time. Deepa wants leaders to give themselves permission to try different things. None of us have been taught how to talk about race. Deepa talks in the book about things women of color can do when they face racist incidents. Practice and have statements ready. [36:38] Deepa also encourages white male leaders to practice dealing with incidents, such as saying, “That didn’t sit right,” “I’m afraid that probably didn’t land the same way for everybody,” or “Can we stop the meeting and talk about what just happened?” We all need to learn what to do about racism. Give yourself permission to try. It’s more important that you try than that you don’t do anything. [37:15] In the two years it took to write the book, the language has progressed so much in how we talk about these topics. The terms are changing. You’re not going to get it right every time. That’s OK; it’s more important to try and to give yourself grace. Deepa notes that the employee voice is on the rise and she wants people to be happy in their jobs. [39:45] Deepa talks about “the power of me,” and “the power of we.” In order to create change, it’s going to take other people. Deepa sees a lot of delusions about how work has to be. [41:02] Leaders should learn to know the values that women of color hold, such as community. Women of color tell Deepa they have negative feelings for the word “Power.” She asked Stacy Brown Philpot, CEO of TaskRabbit, about power and she suggested leadership and power could be about making people feel safe and that they can bring all of who they are to the table, with some boundaries and guardrails. [44:36] Deepa has learned through publishing this book that you have to be ready but you also have to trust that the universe will meet you where you are. She is also excited about the future and the possibility of the moment we are in. Change is possible if we band together and have hard conversations. If we are ever going to have a better world of work, it is now. [46:28] Deepa’s final thoughts: We all have power. We all have the ability to find our voice and some of this is about doing the hard work to figure out what’s important to you, and what your values are. How do you want to show up? How do you want to lead? Who do you want to be? When you know that, there are ways to change the places where you work. We have a lot more power than we realize.   Quotable Quotes “[When I left my career] I didn’t have a book deal. I didn’t have the company founded. There were a lot of questions around that, so …  It kind of speaks to my risk-taking. You leap sometimes and it just works out.” “I had a very visible job. I was known in a hundred-thousand-person organization by my first name. … When you make it relatively young, and you make it quickly … — I’d sacrificed a lot to get to that seat.” “I thought you could have success and health is important but it wasn’t top-of-mind. … I started to get really sick. …  Part of my journey was getting healthy; part of my journey was asking different questions. … What space do I want work to take up in my life.” “I interviewed over 500 women of color to write the book and so their stories are in there. … One of the statements that kept coming up over and over again is this pressure to conform, perform, and produce.” “You almost have to unplug for at least six months to even understand … what the values are and look in your life and see what makes you happy.” “I grew up in a very white, very small farm-country town where I was one of five students of color in a school of 500. So you’re always kind of wondering, ‘What’s different; where do I belong?’” “When I get that angry or that upset, I carry that for a long time. … I have research that suggests that we carry negative comments four times as long as a positive comment or a compliment. Those kinds of things really weigh on women and women of color.” “We have not created safety in companies. We have not created places where people are able to tell the truth and women of color can share everything that’s happening to them.” “There are a lot of challenges. Speaking with 500 women of color, … there is … a lot of trauma. I’m really optimistic because I feel like we’re in a moment where people are listening differently and that if we were ever going to change how work works for everybody, it’s now.” “I think we’re just in a moment where employee voice is on the rise. And so, if companies and leaders don’t start to pay attention to that, I think they’re missing something. … I want people to be happy in the jobs that they have. We spend more time working than we do with our spouses.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

Ron Adner is the leading strategy thinker on the topic of business ecosystems. He is the author of The Wide Lens: What Successful Innovators See that Others Miss and a new book, Winning the Right Game: How to Disrupt, Defend, and Deliver in a Changing World. Ron shares important insights on the language of strategic alignment to help you navigate the new world of coalitions and ecosystems. If your new value proposition requires rewiring your relationships - you’re in an ecosystem where there is interdependence. It takes a new language to teach new strategies, and the rewards can be great. Listen in to see if you should be shifting your perspective.   Key Takeaways [2:10] Much of what Ron writes is on how to think about innovation and make sure you are doing the right work. He stresses efficient, effective action. [3:24] What kind of shifts will disrupt your ecosystem? Modern disruptions change the ecosystem, for example, making a change in how healthcare is delivered and changing the boundaries of industries. [7:11] The COVID-19 pandemic disrupted the work ecosystem. It’s a virus; it’s supposed to stay in its healthcare box. It broke through boundaries to affect international relations, trade, supply chains, and more. An ecosystem disruption requires an ecosystem response. Ron shares a link for listeners to read Chapter 1 of his book, for free, to learn about the challenge we are all facing. [10:45] In 95% of conversations where people use the word “ecosystem,” you could substitute the word “mishmash,” with no loss of meaning. Ron claims there is a lack of structured thinking about ecosystems. He shares a specific definition of ecosystem, and how it connects to whether or not your new value proposition requires rewiring relationships. [12:53] Hans Rosling wrote in Factfulness about the secondary and tertiary effects of the globally important decisions we make. Ron says people can’t confidently discuss third-order consequences. His work is built on the structure of interdependence; understanding the system that is implied by a value proposition. Think about the structure of the system that needs to come together for the proposition. [16:35] Ron believes that if we can think more broadly about the set of parties we are going to interact with, a lot of things become easier to see. It requires flexibility and true empathy for the counterparty’s position. [18:36] When writing his book, Ron discovered that the structure of interdependence is changing. It’s necessary to know what the changes are. In Jack Welch’s GE, it was clear what the industry was and easy to rank who was number one. Today, all sorts of parties are on the same game board playing different games. Choose the game you want to win! Winning the wrong game can feel a lot like losing. [21:05] Meeting the clients’ needs better than the competition was the traditional execution lens and it is still needed. But is that all that’s needed? Is your ability to deliver on that promise entirely within your capability set, or are you going to be relying on other parties and partners to do something to enable you to deliver, not your product or service, but the value proposition that you’re making? [22:50] Is it better to follow the traditional execution of the value proposition? It depends on whether you have easy access to the abilities and resources needed to deliver on that proposition. If not, you need an ecosystem of partners that can do something to enable you to deliver on the value proposition. And you need to put them on the same pedestal to maintain the value proposition. [23:45] Ron shares a case study from Michelin, and their run-flat tire. They didn’t invest enough in their service garage partners and the product collapsed. Critical partners are just as important to strategize for as your end consumers. [24:50] Jan cites Steve Justice, former program director for Lockheed Martin, saying, “You’ve got to stand in the future. And if people are laughing at you, you know you’re far enough out there, that you’re standing in the future.” [25:48] Ron suggests asking, “What do we need to get there?”, “Who do we need to get there?”, “How do you align them?” He explains the differences between a project and an ecosystem. In an ecosystem, your partners may not know that you’re planning to rely on them. In a project, everyone knows who the manager is. In an ecosystem, there is no hierarchy of authority. You rely on strategic alignment. [28:48] An ecosystem that’s functioning well is one that’s in balance. [29:42] Chapter 6 of Winning the Right Game is an attempt to understand what individual leadership means when you’re playing in the ecosystem game. There is a distinction between the execution mindset required to succeed in a setting where the leader puts his organization first, and the alignment mindset required to align different organizations into an ecosystem coalition, putting the coalition first. [33:27] Jim refers to Joseph Pine and James Gilmore’s concept of the experience economy, where the experience, not the service, is the greater value proposition. Ron talks about Amazon and Alexa’s value proposition for the smart home and how they surpassed Apple, Google, and Microsoft to lead in smart homes, and how Tesla surpassed GM in electric cars. [37:25] Some leaders can’t make the jump from leading others to leading the organization. Ron says there are different categories of leaders. We need execution people in industries. For others, building coalitions comes more naturally. Most of us are not at the top of the organization. Ron describes a mindset that is helpful for middle executives in choosing the projects they want to be in. [41:22] The language of strategy is inadequate for today’s tasks. Ron suggests using the chapters of Winning the Right Game to communicate what underlies your strategy. Use the new language of strategic alignment to educate the people below and above you in the organization. [46:04] Ron summarizes. Chunks of the world operate in an industry mindset. Chunks of the world are shifting toward an ecosystem situation. First, figure out what side of the world you are in. Use the industry toolbox for industry. If your opportunity relies on a new set of collaborators and a new mode of collaboration, use the new ecosystem strategic alignment toolbox. If you get it right, rewards are great. [50:02] Jim invites listeners to visit and closes with a Stanley A. McChrystal quote that leaders should be like gardeners, creating and maintaining a viable ecosystem in which the organization operates.   Quotable Quotes “The key in a difficult world is efficient, effective action.” “Classic disruption … was a study of identifying substitute threats while they were still off the radar. … All that disruption was really a technology substitution.” “When I talk about an ecosystem disruption, it’s this disruption that doesn’t change the technology within a given box. It changes the boundaries that used to define these boxes that we can think of as traditional industries. That, I think, is what we’re seeing, more and more.” “An ecosystem response is one where a coalition of actors is pulled together. ” “When I talk about an ecosystem, I have a very specific definition in mind. … It’s the structure through which partners interact to deliver a value proposition to an end consumer.” “The ecosystem, then, is anchored not in any given actor, not in a firm, but in a value proposition and the structure through which multiple partners interact.” “Whenever you have a value proposition that requires a rewiring of relationships, that’s when you’re moving into this ecosystem world, which, I will argue, requires a new strategy toolbox to draw from.” “When you have a new proposition that doesn’t require rewiring [relationships], you don't need to worry about this ecosystem stuff. You can go back toward traditional tools.” “Your challenge is not just winning but choosing the game you want to win. The threat, of course, is that you can win the wrong game, and winning the wrong game can feel a lot like losing.” “Can you execute in a traditional execution way, or do you need to rely on an ecosystem? Why do we see firms relying on partners? It’s because they don’t have easy access to the capabilities or the resources.” “How is it that great people are succeeding in one setting and being less successful in the other?” “In the real world, if you're in a room and you’re the only person with the right answer, you're totally useless. Your job is to get everybody else to the right answer, and that requires language.” “It’s not saying there’s a new world order or everything has changed. It’s saying some things have changed and perhaps you’re in a situation that might be different but it doesn’t mean everything is.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

Dr. Joseph A. Allen has written more about meetings in the academic literature than anyone. He is a Professor of Industrial and Organizational Psychology at the University of Utah. On the show, he shares recent research that shows hybrid meetings are better than either in-person or virtual meetings. Dr. Allen shares his rules for effective meetings, whether in-person, virtual, or hybrid; and how to foster inclusivity and engagement. Do you know your people? Have you talked to them? What do they want? Encourage participation. … There are ideas out there that will solve the problems in our organizations. We just need to let our people share them.   Key Takeaways [2:01] Dr. Allen has written more on meetings in the academic literature than anybody else! [3:11] Having poor meetings is a problem in nearly every organization. [4:33] In the first week of  March 2020, Dr. Allen and his co-author Karin Reed predicted that video meetings and remote work would happen in five to 10 years. Instead, they started two weeks later in the COVID-19 pandemic shutdown! Web video cameras were hard to find by May! [6:13] Dr. Allen collected data in June 2021 for a study showing that face-to-face meetings before the pandemic weren’t great, virtual meetings were as good as face-to-face meetings, and hybrid meetings were better than either. If you make sure everyone is seen and heard, hybrid meetings can be the most inclusive type of meeting. If you don’t put the effort into it, they are challenging to do well. [8:15] Early adopters were running hybrid meetings that started on time, ended on time, and had an agenda and a purpose. They encouraged participation. They were following the best practices Dr. Allen had been preaching for years. If you do those best practices, you can have a good meeting in any format. [9:41] In virtual or hybrid meetings, there should be one camera for each participant. We can’t continue to set up conference rooms with the “bowling lane” approach. We need to work toward finding the best way to use multiple cameras and microphones. [11:18] If you don’t know how to facilitate a meeting based on the agenda, you will not hold a good meeting. Dr. Allen talks about the need for procedural communication, to interrupt a monologue and steer the conversation back to the objective. He also notes that most meeting leaders have a blindspot to their faults and think they do a better job of facilitating meetings than they do. [15:30] Dr. Allen says it is paramount to use your camera in a video meeting. If you want your voice to be heard, turning your camera on provides the additional input of facial expressions and gestures. Don’t turn off your camera so you can check your email. Be engaged. Leaders, run your meetings so participants need to be engaged, or you are giving them an out not to engage. [17:42] Who needs to be in the meeting? Part of planning for a meeting is selecting who needs to be invited. [18:21] Everybody doesn’t need to be invited to every meeting. They need time to do their regular work. With the pandemic and seven-step “commutes,” managers started filling commute time with more meetings. Sometimes sharing the meeting minutes is better than having everyone in the meeting. Or record the meeting and others can play it back at 2X speed. [20:5] Between choosing phone or video, you should hold a video meeting when you’re meeting someone that you’ve not worked with a lot. If you don’t see each other, someone might be confused over your meaning. [22:24] The more complex an issue, the more important it is to have a virtual environment that allows sharing charts as well as seeing each other. Phones are good tools for simple issues. [23:09] If you don’t know how people are going to react to what you throw out there, use the strongest communication modality you can. In-person or video is better than phone, email, or text to communicate a complex message. [24:13] Joe recommends a virtual commute, which is taking the time to get your brain ready to work, and after work, getting your brain ready to be home. You could listen to a podcast, a book, or the radio. You are giving your brain the natural cues to transition to the next environment with its activities.[26:23] It’s psychologically healthy to take breaks, reflect, and focus. Joe has a paper on meeting recovery under review at a journal. This is discussed in his book, Suddenly Hybrid. Humans need moments to be human. Without transition time, we start to burn out. Meeting recovery is a big issue. Make meetings 25 minutes or 50 minutes long so people can take a break before their next meeting! [31:09] The best practices for any meeting, in-person, hybrid, or virtual: Have an agenda, start on time, end on time, have a purpose, and describe the purpose at the beginning of the meeting. [31:40] The best practices unique to hybrid meetings: The leader sets ground rules, like calling people by name and asking them to participate; it’s OK if the answer is, I don’t have anything to add. That way, everybody gets a chance to be seen and heard on this. Set a ground rule that it’s not OK to turn the camera off and disengage. It’s up to the participants to help and participate. [32:54] Dr. Allen strongly recommends the leader rotate the location of the hybrid meeting, either office or a remote location. It reminds the leader how hard it is to participate remotely and how important it is to engage the remote participants. The leader should set the rule for the discussion part of the meeting that remotes chime in first before anyone in the room does. [33:57] It’s easy for the people in the room to create a tiered communication system, where the people in the room are primary and the people on video or audio are a secondary group. This derails the sense of team effectiveness. Rotate who speaks first among the remote participants; if you know your team, you know who will respond well to being called on first and share their thoughts briefly. [36:57] Gary Hamel, author of Humanocracy, has advocated for years that we stop managing people like Napoleon, command and control. Now managers are insisting we get back to work nine to five. Dan Price, CEO of Gravity Payments recently said, “If you get your work done, that’s all that matters.” [37:44] Surveys of workers show that some people want to work from home more and some people want to work from the office more. To retain your top talented folks, establish policies and procedures around hybrid work that allow people to work from home when they need to and work in the office when they need to. Add some required days where people come together and re-energize the team. [39:28] On days when you bring everybody in, have people collaborate. Why commute for an hour to sit in a box? Collaboration is skills-based. Leaders can read about it and implement it. It can be done even by people who are introverts because they know that collaboration on their team is important to their success. On all-hands days, have team meetings and things that cannot easily be done virtually. [41:40] CEOs, are you creating an environment for your leaders to learn how to do this really hard stuff that is leadership today? [43:01] One size does not fit all. Different teams have different requirements. Get to know your people and provide a sense of flexibility that might be a little more uncomfortable than you would like. If you don’t accommodate your people, you may lose them, even though they may find out the grass is not always greener over there. [47:20] Dr. Allen issues a challenge to the listeners: 51% of our meetings are rated as poor. The ways to improve meetings are not rocket science. Take stock of your meetings. Think about what would be the ideal situation. See what you may not be doing and try it. Encourage participation. There are ideas out there that will fix problems in our organizations. We just need to let our people share them.   Quotable Quotes “There isn’t actually a course in the management schools across the country that trains people on how to run effective meetings; why would we do effective meetings?” “Everybody had to figure out what was going to work for them in their environment.” “What we learned is that we can do this. We can meet remotely. We can make it work effectively.” “Early adopters are often those people who know how to make the Apple Watch work really well. Or they know how to pull things up on the screen that you don’t know how to do. They’re the people that take on technology and just embrace it.” “The meeting leader, who comes in with an agenda and a purpose, gets steamrolled by somebody … who just goes off on their favorite topic. … That leader needs to know that they can say, ‘Thank you for that comment. That’s meaningful. I’d like to get your thoughts on this.’” “You know that one bad meeting causes three more meetings! That is scientifically shown across a lot of different samples and a lot of data. It’s worth the effort to make the meetings better because it means we should have fewer meetings moving forward.” “[A ‘virtual commute’ is] that psychological and meaningful human transition from one thing to the next. And we need that transition time. Without it, we start to really burn out.” “It’s easy for those folks in the room to create a tiered system of communication, where the people in the room are the primary and the people that are not in the room, whether it be on video or audio, become a secondary group. That ... can derail the sense of ... ‘team.’” “[Collaboration] can be done even by people who are not the most collaborative or wanting to be. … Introverted people … learn how to do it, anyway, because they know that collaboration in their team is really important for the success of their team.” “It’s all about: Do you know your people? Have you talked to them? What do they want? And if you go against what they want, be prepared for the ramifications! Be prepared for the mass exodus that’s been happening in some organizations.” “Encourage participation. … There are ideas out there that will solve the problems in our organizations. We just need to let our people share them.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Marlene Chism works with C-Suite leaders to build drama-free cultures that drive growth and reduce costly mistakes. She’s the author of four commercially-published books and a LinkedIn Learning instructor. Marlene shares simple ways to deal with conflict. Marlene advises using curiosity to learn more about the parties to the conflict, and explains the dangers for new leaders of being nice. She also shares leadership traits and the importance of being in alignment. And remember, willingness is the fulcrum point of change.   Key Takeaways [1:52] Marlene Chism loves to dance. Marlene suggests turning off his “thinking brain” to find his rhythm! [3:38] Marlene says we mismanage conflict with the three “A”s: Appeasement, Aggression, and Avoidance. When we think of conflict as a problem, we fear it. [4:05] Marlene has a new definition for conflict: Opposing Drives, Desires, and Demands. It’s not one person “out to get” another. People want different things for different reasons. When you take the personal aspects out of conflict and define it differently, your gut reaction to it changes. [4:34] Generally, we mismanage conflict because we have an inner conflict first. In other words, I might need to have a difficult conversation with you but I also want you to like me. I mismanage it because I have two opposing drives, desires, and demands within myself. [5:35] When is the right time to address potential conflict? Marlene says we have to get curious, and the sooner, the better. Good contracts create good relationships. Marlene offers ways to be direct and find clarity. Bring up questions earlier, rather than later. [6:55] Sometimes we imagine conflict where there is none. Are we negotiating with ourselves? Marlene suggests watching your narrative. Don’t believe everything that you think. Say, “I observed this; my perception is that.” That gives grace to the other person to clarify if they meant something else. Being assertive beats the alternative of making up a story and creating a bigger conflict than what was there. [8:29] Marlene says she takes a breath and thinks about whether she has all the facts to be sure she is right. If she’s feeling angry, she interprets it as that she needs more information. Marlene always asks “Are you willing to be wrong?” [10:19] Willingness is the fulcrum point of change. Nothing happens until there’s willingness. If I haven’t been willing, it means I’m in a state of resistance. [11:01] Marlene says drama is an obstacle to peace and prosperity. She uses the visual of a rowboat with a person in it going to an island. A shark between the boat and the island is the obstacle. When we’re in drama, we’re distracted. Marlene compares employee drama with top-level drama. CEOs who think they are above the drama are not hands-on and are keeping secrets from their team so they look competent. [13:24] If you’re not working toward a purpose; if you don’t have a shared vision, and if you don’t feel excited, that’s an obstacle. We all have to take responsibility for our engagement and desires. There is a symbiotic relationship between the employee and the company. [14:05] Marlene discusses her latest book, From Conflict to Courage. In the workplace, Marlene says courage is not taking the easy path; not taking the path of being perceived as “nice.” Marlene’s book sets up a framework of Conflict Capacity with three overlapping circles: Culture, Skillset, and Inner Game. The three together give you the ability to clarify conflicts. [16:18] Marlene says in the long run, aligning with your values and what you promised your customer is going to serve you. What is the point of being profitable if you are miserable because you don’t understand alignment? [17:26] Marlene defines leadership. It is alignment or focusing energy. Aligning everything in your business trumps opportunity. Opportunity can be a distraction and lead to drama. [18:32] If something is operating in harmony, it’s very efficient and very effective. Marlene says the owner wants to get to the treasure chest on the island, the leader wants everybody to row harder and faster, and the rower just wants a better seat cushion on the boat. A consultant has to look at all three perspectives. [19:52] In her latest book, Marlene writes about the price of being nice. She sees three identities of new leaders before they are oriented: Best Friend, Hands-off, or Hero. When we don’t align with the values of leadership, we try to align as "best friends." [21:35] We can be friendly; we should be kind and polite, but when we don’t understand our role as a leader, then it’s about being nice, which is about manipulating. We think that being nice is making people like us, so we avoid being direct because it feels bad to say “No.” We’re afraid of hurting people’s feelings, versus educating them on why prior decisions are not going to allow that new idea. [22:14] Peter Drucker, in his book, Concept of the Corporation, says that when front-line people give ideas and they don’t match, don’t look at it as if they’re stupid or they don’t get it. Look at it as they want to engage but they don’t understand how the business operates and how the different departments work together. We should educate them. We want people to grow, not to like us. [23:27] People will like you if you are fair with them. Work on having a relationship with people. You don’t need to conduct a personality assessment on your team to resolve conflicts. You need to spend time with them and talk honestly with them without posturing. [24:41] Feigning niceness but not wanting to develop a relationship, is not niceness. Some say the traits they have that distract are virtues. If people say that’s just the way I am, Marlene asks them “Is that who you want to be?” Do you want to be authentic to the childish parts of you, or do you want to be authentic to the future you, who is growing, evolving, apologizing and working on yourself? [26:23] With a clear definition of how you want to show up, that changes the game. Ask yourself, am I willing to stop rolling my eyes and interrupting? Am I willing to notice that habit, to be a better communicator? [27:01] What are some of the challenges of building relationships without being in the office? It’s an opportunity for those who want to be intentional about connection. Learn to be good in the office, on Zoom, on Teams, on the phone, and in text. Have a system because eventually, it will put you at the top. Be the one who follows through instead of ghosting. [28:22] You will never lose by deciding to be intentional about how you form relationships and how you treat other people.   [29:14] What if you’ve been a coworker, and were suddenly promoted to manage people who were your “best friends”? Marlene hopes the organization would help to onboard you into management, but it doesn’t happen very much. You’re going to take on a whole new identity. Don’t believe that the better you treat people, the more they’re going to do you favors. They will take advantage. It’s human nature. [30:09] Have a meeting with everyone, individually and in a group, to explain the new position and what it means. Marlene shares a script for being open and setting expectations from the beginning of the things that will change and how you will go forward. Generally, when expectations have not been set is the time Marlene is called in! You’ll have to start with a clean slate and own the part you played. [30:59] You cannot set a new boundary out of the blue. It will make people your enemies. Tell your observations. Acknowledge your part in it. Explain how it is affecting the operation. Set the new rule and say everyone will need to comply. It will require, when someone messes up, for you to enforce the consequence you said would happen. A boundary is not solid unless you keep the boundary. [32:48] Leadership clarity is about situational analysis and the outcome. Without those two points of reference, you cannot solve any problem at all. Identify what’s happening that shouldn’t be, what’s not happening that should be, how that affects your business, the two points of reference and the obstacles you think are in the way. Start with clarity. [33:58] Leadership identity is how you see yourself in relation to these issues. Leadership Identity drives everything but you can only be as effective as your ability to be clear. [35:01] Marlene recently had a clarification meeting with a new client. Just as they were about to sign the contract, the client wanted to add in a StrengthsFinder, as well. Marlene answered, yes, they could do that for an extra fee, but since we know the situation and the outcome, let’s see if we can uncover some of those issues that are creating a lack of clarity and resolve them with what we’ve agreed to do. [36:23] What can happen if a board member is hired by opportunity (deep pockets and good connections) instead of by alignment (having the same values)? Drama! Jim compares conservative and progressive values in corporations around DEI. Marlene encourages getting to know the other person and learning what it’s like to be in their shoes, whether or not you agree with them. Align with them. [40:05] The real problem is we’re saying, “Just like them” or “Not one of us.” We need to stop doing that. There’s room for all, we just have to be willing to build that capacity and to be a little bit uncomfortable with it. That’s what conflict capacity is about. Be willing to be wrong and be open. [41:17] The story you tell is the life you live. Whatever narrative you think or feel about yourself, is the source of your suffering. The good news is your story can also be the source of your “salvation.” You can shift your story and see other things that are equally true and explore that.[42:18] Marlene found that you can only coach a regulated person. If someone’s in their story and they're upset, all you can do is be a radical listener. You cannot coach someone that’s not self-regulated. Marlene loves that you can help a person shift their story, and create a new possibility. [43:09] How and why has Marlene changed her identity several times? Marlene was a blue-collar factory worker for 21 years. She wanted something more. She had to learn business practices the hard way because you don’t know what you don’t know. She first identified with being a professional speaker. As she became more aware of business practices, she realized she was not as good as she thought! [44:36] Going from a front-line worker to a supervisor gives you a new identity and it can be completely overwhelming if you haven’t believed, accepted, and felt that you are in that place. You have to feel it. [45:03] Marlene explains three life tragedies that occur mid-life: 1. I know I want something more but I don’t know what it is. 2. I know what it is but I don’t believe it’s possible. 3. I know what it is and it might be possible, but now I have to be willing. Willingness is the fulcrum point of change. In any tragedy, you don’t have clarity. You have to be willing to discover, develop, and deliver. Find your purpose. [47:55] If you’re stuck, confused, in drama, or conflict, clarity can change any situation. Marlene’s job is to hear the stories of the parties she coaches and help them get clear, and they will know the answer.   Quotable Quotes “We are all afraid of conflict … and so … we try to avoid it. I call it the three ‘A’s: Appeasing, Aggression, and Avoidance.” “Generally, we mismanage [conflict] because we have an inner conflict first.” “Watch your narrative. Don’t believe everything that you think.” “I could be right, but I might be wrong and there might be one missing piece. … If I’m feeling that angry, instead of interpreting it as I’ve got all the facts, that means, I’ve got to have more information … because that helps me to calm down.” “The question I always ask is, ‘Are you willing to be wrong?’ Or, ‘Am I willing to be wrong?’ Because nothing happens until there’s willingness. … Willingness is the fulcrum point of change.” “If I haven’t been willing, it means I’m in a state of resistance.” “In the long run, aligning with your values and what you promised your customer is what’s  going to serve you. … What is the point of being profitable and being successful if you are miserable because you don’t understand alignment?” “My definition for leadership is that if leadership is about anything, it’s about alignment and alignment is about focusing energy.” “The owner wants to get to the treasure chest on the island, the leader wants everybody to row harder and faster, and the rower just wants a better seat cushion on the boat. As a consultant … it’s about looking at all the perspectives.” “You will never lose by deciding to be intentional about how you form relationships and how you treat other people.” “If you’ve messed up for a while, which is generally where I come in, what you have to do is you have to start with a clean slate and you have to own the part you played. Because you cannot set a new boundary out of the blue. It will make people your enemy.” “If you care more about them understanding than you do about your boundary, that’s where you’re going to be a poor leader.” “Wherever there’s drama, there’s always a lack of clarity.” “That’s what conflict capacity is about, ‘I’m uncomfortable with your ideas and thoughts and it’s OK that I’m uncomfortable. I might change my mind if I’m willing to be wrong. And you might change yours if you’re willing to be open.’” “If you’re stuck or you’re confused, or you’re in drama or conflict, there’s something that I live by, and that’s: ‘Clarity can change any situation.’”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Marlene’s new book: Marlene’s previous books: (Out of stock)  

Joe Schurman teaches from his deep experience in the software, machine learning, AI, and processes that organizations need today as they transition to data-driven technology companies. He names some of the cloud services and tech tools he uses to lead clients to start with a user case, break it into stories,  build a team led by the solution owner, assign the stories to developers to build, and iterate product demos until the Minimum Loved Project (MLP) is achieved. Joe offers observations on investing the “right” amount of time in projects, and wisdom on developing a learner mindset.   Key Takeaways [2:06] Joe Schurman is a 2nd-degree black belt in Kung Fu. He once judged a competition in Las Vegas. He has four children; two daughters and two sons. [2:57] Joe is an expert on the fringes of what we can do with computing technology. What we can do changes every day. In the past couple of years, from an AI perspective, with data and automation, it’s taken leaps and bounds. [4:30] We’re still pretty far away from general AI, despite Sophia, an AI robot that was granted Saudi Arabian citizenship in 2017. Today’s AI depends on the programming we give a machine and its interpretation and output. Joe’s focus is narrow or weak AI. His business colleagues call it magic. Computer vision is an area he loves. [5:45] Joe uses a lab environment across Google Cloud Platform, Microsoft Azure, and Amazon Web Services. The capabilities that have come up in the last year are “just insane” with what you can do with computer vision and building libraries of what the machine can see. [6:06] Joe loved seeing a computer vision capability demonstration at AWS re:Invent of tracking every NFL player on the field and predicting injuries and other types of output and insights in real-time. The machine used narrow AI to access a library seeded with “a ton” of data to interpret the action. [7:15] What you can do with this technology comes down to the data that you feed the engine. Think about the amounts of data that organizations have to sift through to generate reflective or predictive insights. Auto machine learning helps organize the data into useful information such as anomaly detection in software engineering. The data can also come from tools like GitHub and Jira. [8:25] Joe did a fun computer vision project on UAPs for the History Channel, working with some of the nation’s top military leaders, building a library of video and audio data to be able to detect unidentified aerial phenomena that were not supposed to be entering our airspace, and curating that library. [10:06] AI started with the idea of speeding up processes, such as getting an app to market faster or gathering insights quicker to make business decisions more timely. [11:28] AI can enhance human performance. Joe starts by finding people who know how to fail fast; to get a Minimum Viable Product (MVP) out the door. Solutions such as quality engineering automation, test automation, and monitoring services for DevOps detect bugs and performance issues quickly and ensure that the quality of the team is sound.[12:47] Joe notes the importance of individuals performing, contributing to, and collaborating as a team. Set your organization and standards governance up first. Look for a platform of technology to leverage that enables you to build and tinker. Finding the latest and greatest tool is no good unless it provides the right level of collaboration with their platform and connection to different processes. [14:53] When introducing ML to an organization, start with discovery, to understand the culture and talent within the organization. How are they communicating today? Joe sees the biggest gap between data scientists and data engineers. Projects tend to fail without collaboration, regardless of the tech. If the data scientists don’t understand the domain, then the platform is irrelevant,[17:28] Joe stresses the need for a methodology in place to make any of these aspirations work for your organization. After discovery, there’s an align phase. Focus on the outcome and the use case. The solution owner is crucial. The solution owner leads the technology team and brings them together around the client’s outcome to develop that use case.[18:12] If you can’t take an actual use case and break it down into bite-sized chunks or user stories, then the project will never be on the right track. Start with the use case to mitigate risks. Break the use case into user stories. Match the user stories with the number of engineers that can develop a number of user stories within a given time frame. [18:38] Those user stories given to the engineers are deducted into Story Points, in the Agile Process of engineering software. Price Waterhouse Coopers (PcW) has taken it to the next level, being able to do Engineering as a Service, being able to do it at scale, and being able to pivot quickly.[18:58] Joe explains what can happen if you have a great idea, take three to six months to break down the use case, and fill all the requirements, but hand it off to the Dev team that has no idea what the use case is: you get irrelevant software that doesn’t tie back to the outcome! [19:22] Keep the solution team engaged in building the bridge between the subject matter expert stakeholders and the engineers. Every two weeks, demonstrate the iteration or program increment you have built. Does it match the outcome? Does it provide any relevance? Then take the feedback and figure out what happened in that iteration. Fix errors. You will build a product that has value to launch. [20:45] Communicate a lot, so all the people are on the same page! When you have stovepiped organizations where the departments don’t talk to one another, you waste time, effort, and money building a product no one will use. One of Joe’s colleagues, José Reyes, uses the term Minimum Lovable Project (MLP), where people rally around the outcome, not just the tech. [22:33] What skills and knowledge will the leaders of PwC need to endure for the next five years? Joe says first are character and attitude; people that have a hunger to build something, with a fail-fast mentality, and that are excited to learn constantly, that read every day and learn new technology. [24:27] Then know the tools. Documents exist on the internet for every solution and there is access to services like GitHub to download projects and starter templates without being an expert but just reading the README file and installing the base-level template, learning as you go, and as you tinker. That’s way more valuable than coming in as a book-smart expert in a specific product or technology. [24:57] When it comes to tooling, there are products like the Atlassian platform with Confluence and Jira. For an AI stack, Joe typically works with AWS, GPC, and Microsoft, more so on the Amazon side with AWS AI tools, like Rekognition, Glue DataBrew, Redshift ML, Comprehend, and more. Amazon, Microsoft, and Google produce so much documentation and certification to get you up to speed. [26:30] Judgment, wisdom, and character will not be replaced by AI anytime soon. There’s still room for philosophy in leadership. There are tools and technologies to speed up the processes, but not the individuals. There are no general AI solutions out yet to replace a pod of application developers, designers, and solution owners to execute a successful MVP or MLP out the door for a client. [27:55] Advice to CEOs: Be patient and understanding. Be willing to fail fast. Support tinkering and R&D, even if the project doesn't work out. Organizations are generally realizing that today they need to be data-driven, technology companies but there is still hesitance over the risk that needs to be taken. [30:03] Why would an insurance company or other traditional company need R&D? Look at Loonshots, by Safi Bahcall for some ideas about R&D. [30:56] Joe shares how he got to this point in his career. He wanted to play baseball but started at Compaq (now HP) when he was 18, writing scripts in Unix and other environments. Just being able to make certain changes to help clients get products faster and seeing the quick response from the outcomes felt like a home run to him! [31:49] Years later, Joe went on his own, with a vision to create telehealth before telemedicine was a thing, using Skype for Business and Microsoft Lync, enabling an API for that. Seeing people connect through a technology he had built, replaced the need to be a baseball star! Joe is grateful for the break he got at a young age and enjoys his work. [33:22] When Joe first started, he was trying to be the smartest person in the room, seeing the instant gratification of making code snippets that tested successfully. Eventually just building the app wasn’t enough for him. He got the dopamine hit from seeing users interacting with his code and seeing its value. [34:58] Joe’s mentors include many people he worked with. X. D. Wang at Microsoft Research inspired him to tinker, build, and focus on the short-run more than the long-run. Randeep Sing Pal at Microsoft Unified Communications was another great mentor. Also Steve Justice and Chris Mellon, in terms of character and collaboration. Joe shares how they mentored him. [37:23] Jan says something we forget about technology is that there are a lot of failures and attempts before the success hits. We have to be mindful of that as leaders to give people time and space to do really creative, cool things. [38:01] Joe appreciates the opportunity to discuss these things. Joe spent a lot of his career building software solutions that were way ahead of their time. It’s frustrating to see telemedicine so successful now, but not when he attempted it. He had to learn to let go. It’s not just about releasing bleeding-edge tech; you’ve got to find some value associated with it to resonate with the end-user. [39:31] Always think about the outcome and understand your audience first. And then be able to supplement the back end of that with bleeding-edge technology, development, tinkering, failing fast, and all the things that go with software engineering. Also, be humble! Get perspective from outside your bubble to build a better solution and be a better person. [40:49] WHenever you’re setting out to build anything, start with a press release! Write a story of what it would look like if it were released today. Then just work back from there!   Quotable Quotes “There are so many new and cool technologies and innovations that are coming out at the speed of thought, which are pretty fascinating.” “I’ve been in real cloud engineering for about a decade, and from an AI perspective, with data and automation, over the past five to 10 years, in terms of running on a cloud environment, and it’s just taken leaps and bounds.” “You’ve got to be able to connect that [data] environment to a use case or an outcome. If you can’t do that and you can’t enable a data scientist to understand the domain, then the data platform is irrelevant. I see a lot of performance issues occur because of that disconnect.” “If you can’t take an actual use case and break it down into bite-sized chunks or user stories, then the project will never be on the right track.” “In this industry, you’re constantly learning; constantly reading. I’m reading every day and learning about new technology every day and how to apply it and how to tinker with it. I need people on the team … that have that ability or that hunger to tinker and learn.” “Transitioning from a ‘knower’ mindset to a ‘learner’ mindset was the biggest shift for me.” “Always think about the outcome and understand your audience first. And then be able to supplement the back end of that with bleeding-edge technology, development, tinkering, failing fast, and all the things that go with software engineering.”   Resources Mentioned  

Dr. Amer Kaissi is an award-winning Professor of Healthcare Administration at Trinity University, Speaker, Executive Coach, and author of Humbitious. A good leader often has a healthy balance of low ego and high ambition. If you’re looking to create long-lasting change and longevity in a company, it comes down to balancing the humbitious approach. Amer shares how busy business leaders can experience a sense of profound transcendence, get their ego in check, and practice a bit of humility.   Key Takeaways [2:30] Dr. Amer grew up during the Lebanese civil war and he shares how this profound experience has shaped the way he thinks about leadership today. [6:25] Jim Collins proposed a concept of Level 5 leadership, and this framework shaped a lot of what Dr. Amer’s book, Humbitious, is about. [8:35] In the short term, power and ego are very important. However, long-term leadership effectiveness has the humbitious approach. [11:10] The aggressive leader vs. the passive leader. Neither is a good approach, but every leader must find a balance between the two. [15:00] Dr. Amer shares strategies to work through imposter syndrome. [18:55] Genuine humility can be an indicator of a lack of confidence. These leaders need to have their voices heard. [20:45] Humble leaders might not feel the need to step up for themselves, but if you frame it from the advantage of the team, they will begin to understand why it’s important to speak up. [27:50] Dr. Amer shares the important impact of love in the workplace. [30:30] It was not too long ago that leaders would give advice to management to never show emotions because it was perceived as weak. Dr. Amer admits this is horrible advice. [31:30] Dr. Amer explores the importance of human touch in the workplace. Leaders are often afraid to have it be seen as an HR complaint. [33:30] We overcomplicate certain topics because we’re too afraid to have the conversation. Do you want to touch? Have the conversation. [34:55] Dr. Amer shares what role “transcendence” plays in a leader’s emotional wellbeing. [36:10] When you’re deep in nature, it can almost feel like your own ego is dissolving. [37:15] Arrogance can make you feel like you’re the center of the universe. [39:20] If you want to lead, you have to read. [41:35] Listener challenge: Humility is a strength, not a weakness. It’s a superpower when combined with ambition.   Quotable Quotes “Leaders who combine humility with ambition are those who will leave a long-lasting impact.” “Take some time to think about what you’ve achieved in the last five years. Most people who have imposter thoughts are comparing themselves to an ideal version that’s impossible to achieve.” “As we all know as coaches, a strength that’s overused becomes a weakness.” “The research was very clear that the NBA teams that touched more and celebrated more ended up succeeding more.” “Pause and reflect on all the things that are bigger than you. That may be nature, but it could also be the whole universe, history, or God.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Grab Dr. Amer’s book:  

Dr. Jeb Hurley is a leading expert on leadership and team dynamics in hybrid and remote workplaces. Jeb traces his passion for helping people become better leaders and keeping team dynamics healthy to his painful experiences with toxic managers, dysfunctional teams, and low trust cultures. Over the past ten years, Jeb worked with leaders and teams in Asia and worldwide while researching leadership from a behavioral science and neuroscience perspective. He developed deep insights into the root causes of healthy and dysfunctional leader-team dynamics through that work.   As organizations have increasingly recognized the value of influencing behavior and intrinsically motivating people, Jeb shares how to develop those skills by applying behavioral science in meaningful, proven, and sustainable ways. His insights will help you see how you can improve team performance and people's wellbeing.   Key Takeaways [2:20] There are two aspects of Jeb’s background: one is living a global life and career and two is holding the second shodan in karate. He expands on how both are related to being foundational in his path. [4:30] Jan asks Jeb where he would be if he was not able to ever travel again. [6:00] We humans are just simply wired for dysfunction because of our cognitive biases. Jeb explains how that is uncovered through his team trust dynamic model. [8:55] The main reason for bad self-awareness with leaders is the lack of trust. Jeb shares how leaders can operationalize trust. [12:10] Jeb breaks down trust in both behavioral and neurobiological aspects and how trust is wired in our reward systems. [14:50] The hallmark of high-performing teams is having tremendous clarity of purpose and alignment of their values. Jeb explains its importance and how these teams reject lone wolves. [19:05] Jim poses the question of the need for disruption when things get too comfortable and how that should be handled. [20:05] The real issue is that leaders assume value and purpose and they don’t test or revisit them. It opens up the opportunity for “values creep” into areas like mediocrity. [22:05] Jeb talks about the combination of behavioral science to identify what inspires people and influence as a powerful tool in leadership. [23:50] Jeb also shares the different building blocks of empowering team purpose and values, inspiring motivation, and nudging behavior change. [25:50] Finding the human solution to problems can reap the biggest results. [27:45] Jeb shares what his motivation triangle is all about and how it can help managers understand why their people do what they do. [29:25] Humans are driven by three core psychological needs: finding purpose in what we do, developing the skills needed to realize that purpose, and having the freedom to fulfill this purpose. [32:05] Jim asks Jeb where a manager’s responsibility starts and ends in the motivation triangle. [35:40] What Jeb has learned about leadership doesn’t come from studying leadership. He shares the one thing all leaders should focus on. [38:35] The Experience/expectation dynamic defines the essence of every relationship you ever had. Jeb provides some examples to explain its impact. [41:30] Jeb tells the story of how he and his partner started their company, Brainware Partners. [45:10] One of the best practices for nudges is that it’s not about the manager but it’s about the team solving a problem together. Jeb shares that’s what he observed in high-performing teams. [46:30] Listener Challenge: Put trust in psychological safety at the core of what you do.   Quotable Quotes “Eight years in Asia makes you realize that the Western constructs of how we go about seeing, behaving, and preaching leadership is very different from what happens in other parts of the world.” “It’s typically that combination of cognitive biases and not really understanding how to operationalize trust that makes it really challenging for team leaders and team members to be consistent in delivering performance and well-being.” “It’s (trust) not all about just simple logic, there’s a strong cognitive and emotional aspects or parts of it.” “What’s important is that everybody has this very clear sense that these are the values and this is what it means to be psychologically safe in this environment. So by doing that, those teams insulate themselves from lone wolves and toxic behaviors.” “Lightning speed is just really a relative thing. People pretend to get really busy doing lots of stuff but are they doing the things that matter that actually move the needle? I would argue, not so much.” “When we empower feedback, when we empower people in ways that build trust and psychological safety, it makes a huge difference.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Grab Jeb’s books: ,  

Kian Gohar is the founder of Geolab, an innovation research and training firm empowering leaders through coaching, strategy, and design. He helps inspire the world’s leading organizations to harness disruptive trends transforming industry in the next decade and beyond. He is the co-author of “Competing in the New World of Work.” As a historian and a futurist, he shares his thoughts and insights on the present and future trends with remote work and digitalization.     Key Takeaways [1:50] Kian has never had a job he applied for. He has been unsuccessful at every job application he has had. [3:40] Talking about Kian’s book, Competing in the New World of Work, Kian shares why radical adaptability is different today than ever before. [5:05] Adaptability is reactive whereas Radical Adaptability is proactive. Kian explains what this means. [7:30] Kian talks about being agile as one of the four leadership traits that they discovered that most successful teams have. He shares some examples to show how this helps balance action and patience. [9:15] Jan shares his own experience with agile teams and how they’re not really agile. Kian explains how it can work on an organizational leadership level to support experimentation. [10:55] Kian shares some tips on how to structure and incentivize organizations with radical aspirations. He shares some examples from companies that were able to really innovate boldly. [13:20] Successful companies create a culture where employees feel psychological safety despite failures. [15:50] Kian thinks the present is not an enigma. He wants to attain a balance between gratitude for the present moment and hope for the future. [18:20] History doesn’t repeat itself but it does rhyme. Kian shares how you can use lessons from the past to gain foresight. [20:50] Having the right mindset is the most important thing we can focus on because it influences all of our actions. Kian shares some examples to explain further. [23:10] We always thought that meetings are the starting point for collaboration and innovation but Kian realized that is not true at all. He talks about asynchronous collaboration to explain why. [25:40] Jan asks Kian if there is any room for compromise for those who don’t want to work asynchronously. [27:05] Kian shares what are the outcomes if organizations fail to adapt to these new ways and tools of working. [29:05] As a futurist and historian, Jim asks Kian for his thoughts about the expansion and contraction of location and geography with organizations. [31:10] This new remote or digital-first world will allow a lot of jobs and tasks to be done from anywhere. Kian shares further his insights into future trends. [32:25] Helping other people move outside of expensive cities can also help reduce inequalities that we face and internal social tensions in society. [33:35] Humans are social animals but there is a space and time for that physical connection. Kian talks about the hybrid model and how this can be more acceptable to the younger generation. [35:30] It’s really critical for leaders to think purposefully about how we design incentives and culture because it has a huge impact on people. [37:50] Zooming in vs. remming in. Kian shares what that means and his thoughts on future trends. [39:30] Listener challenge: Think about how you want to build a community that creates a differentiation between yours and others despite the democratization of technology.   Quotable Quotes “I’ve been unsuccessful for every job application I’ve ever had. I had to create my own path and career over the last twenty years.” “Somebody told me earlier that entrepreneurship is not a career, it is something that you go from opportunity to opportunity and think of it that way.” “When we think about radical adaptability, it is predictive, proactive, and progressive. It’s a guide for anticipating change and being ahead of the curve rather than having to react to something.” “Resilience isn’t about the exact moment now, it’s about how you build the energy to be able to not be on the current hill that you are on but rather to make the next hill you’re climbing easier.” “History doesn’t repeat itself but it does rhyme.” “We work remotely and I’ve never accomplished more than working in this asynchronous collaboration way.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Grab Kian’s book:  

Nancy Sherman is an ethicist and professor of philosophy at Georgetown University with a focus on ancient Greek and Roman philosophy. She is an expert in ethics, the history of moral philosophy, moral psychology, military ethics, and emotions. In this episode, Nancy discusses her latest book, “Stoic Wisdom: Ancient Lessons for Modern Resilience.”    “To be resilient is to have stamina and persistence, but it’s also to be sustained and supported in your endeavors.”   Key Takeaways [5:24] Stoicism naturally fits in the military because it’s about sucking it up and being invincible. Nancy explains why she worries about this message. [6:40] Nancy thinks that rather than being invincible, stoicism is about understanding vulnerability and how anxiety is created by uncertainty. [8:05] Nancy explains what moral injury means and how it weighs heavily on different kinds of people. [9:30] Stoicism helps you think about how to cope in different situations and manage emotions and uncertain futures. [10:30] One of the factors in the growing popularity of stoicism is the interest in secular religion. Nancy expands on this further. [11:45] Other factors driving the fascination with stoicism are: Self-help is always a hot seller, people who are good at marketing use it as a niche, and Silicon Valley has an interest in it. [13:25] Nancy adds in a fifth factor which is about the Roman Philosophers. [14:35] Nancy thinks stoicism is not only about aestheticism. She explains what that means. [15:00] Post-traumatic stress vs. moral injury. Nancy shares what’s their difference and how stoicism helps manage the latter. [17:20] Resilience vs. grit. Nancy shares her perspective on both. [18:30] Resilience is not self-reliance. She explains how. [21:20] Most studies of resilience suggest that strength does not come from inner toughness but from the ability to be open to receive help. [22:45] The Stoics were thinking of a community of humanity where we share reason, affective emotional judgment, and empathy. Nancy shares an example. [25:30] One of the commitments of stoicism is to expand outward as a member of an effective community. Nancy explains how we can learn from this to be better leaders. [26:50] Nancy talks about how stoics deal with implicit bias and the emotions that come with it. [29:50] Stoicism vs. neurobiology. Nancy shares that not all stoicism is worth saving in modern times and explains why. [32:10] Grace comes from the Greek word, Hara (Χάρις) which means charity. Nancy refers to some examples of goodwill from the stoics. [35:00] Nancy gives another example of mutuality in stoicism that explains her view further about grace. [36:30] Nancy also talks about self-empathy and how it’s very important to be gentle to yourself. [39:30] Jan asks Nancy about ethics and morality and if there is a shortcut to master them. [49:20] Listener Challenge: Embracing stoicism within being emotionless and practicing communal resilience.   Quotable Quotes “I really worry deeply that the message being put out that you are bulletproof or invincible or you have to suck it up at all costs was dangerous.” “If you wanna go without organized religion, stoicism is a way to go.” “It’s more about how you can face the challenges and sometimes, facing the challenges involves healing.” “To be resilient is to have stamina and persistence, but it’s also to be sustained and supported in your endeavors.” “If you hit the pause button a little more, suspend judgment, and not give in or ascent to all those immediate ways we respond, we may have a better chance of engaging in discourse.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Grab Nancy’s books: , , , , , ,

Hugh Blane doesn’t claim to know everything about your business. He does claim however to know more than anyone about converting human potential into accelerated business results – that’s why his clients call him The Talent Alchemist.   In the world of work, the single greatest asset of successful individuals, teams, and organizations is their mindset--what happens in between their ears. It's not the corporate strategy, the sales compensation plan, or the market segments they're pursuing. It is what each leader, team member, and employee chooses to focus on, believe, and create for themselves and others.   From Hugh’s book, “7 Principles of Transformational Leadership” he discusses the fundamental concepts that will result in dramatic revenue, performance, and relationship growth. Specifically, leaders will learn to: Live their professional and personal lives with unbridled purpose and passion. Retain the brightest and best talent. Have employees, key stakeholders, and managers enthusiastically follow them.   Hguh says that you may have employees with all the talent in the world, but you'll never achieve remarkable results until you change your employees' mindset. Listen in to learn more!     Key Takeaways [7:10] Hugh uses Tom Brady as an example for his Seven Principles of Transformational Leadership. [8:35] “Heartset” is often missed when recruiting for talent. Hugh explains what a heartset is. [10:45] Driven vs. Drawn. Hugh shares what’s the difference between the two. [12:50] We are in the midst of a war for talent. Hugh shares his insights on how to retain talent while keeping a high performance standard. [15:35] Hugh talks about one of his good friends, Jim Kouzes, and how he signs all his emails with “Love and Lead.” [16:50] Hugh went through his own personal transformation back when he was forty-seven years old and shares his insights. [19:05] Hugh shares examples of how leaders can be persuasive by talking less. [22:35] Technology is getting in the way of our curiosity and the algorithms are to blame. [25:40] If you really wanna do something, you don’t have to be held accountable. Hugh explains what that means and the difference between asking for accountability vs. holding someone accountable. [29:15] Hugh explains how to be a human doing vs. a human being and shares his thoughts on employee engagement. [33:05] The best thing you can do for underperforming employees is to find a way for them to form their self-worth, self-esteem, and self-efficacy, whether it may be in the same organization or not. [36:05] Hugh’s sole job is to help people become the best version of themselves. He explains how through his model: reframe the past, reclaim the future, and recalibrate the present. [39:30] Hugh shares a story to share that encapsulates a leader’s responsibility to help people and in turn help themselves. [43:35] Adversity and setbacks are the greatest catalysts for the next level of learning and growth. [45:00] Listener Challenge: Think big and pursue greatness in filling the blanks.   Quotable Quotes “We don’t talk about the heartset much, which is, you may have the skill but not the will to really do the dirty long work to become excellent or great in your craft.” “‘Drawn,’ I think, lasts longer than ‘drive.’ Drive is what makes motivation get started.” “Are you pursuing excellence in yourself as a leader? Because you can’t expect anyone inside your organization to do something or follow something if you’re not doing it.” “I may disagree with you but I will not be disagreeable. I just want to be in conversation and I can learn something from you.” “The purpose of life is to find your gift and the meaning of it, and the meaning of life is to give it away.” -David Viscott   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Grab Hugh’s book:  

Simon Mainwaring is CEO of We First, Inc., the creative consultancy that strategizes, integrates, and activates the growth, productivity, and impact of the world’s most successful brands. As a global keynote speaker, New York Times bestselling author of We First and LEAD WITH WE, and highly-awarded brand futurist, he works with leading CEOs, CMOs, and entrepreneurs to define their business strategy, company culture, and brand communications.   Simon is a sought-after international speaker whose presentations engage and inspire audiences to think and act in new ways that LEAD WITH WE around a collectivized purpose. He has been voted a Top 5 Marketing Speaker by speaking.com for 5 years in a row, and featured on the cover of the National Speaker’s Magazine. From the Cannes Lions Festival to Google,  from Necker Island with Sir Richard Branson to the United Nations Foundation, and now on The Leadership Podcast,  he delivers a roadmap for revolutionizing your business from the ground up by factoring all “shareholders” into your collective future for all your business decisions.   Key Takeaways [2:20] Simon talks about his two daughters who have been trapeze artists since they were three years old. [4:05] Spending fifteen years in big creative advertising agencies, Simon shares his views on capitalism and how his opinions have evolved. [6:10] Simon thought about using the power of storytelling in business to make a difference, which led to his dialogue around capitalism. [7:25] Simon explains where the danger comes from when influence turns into manipulation. [8:50] It’s a constant in human nature to play with power but there is nowhere to hide now. The motive will eventually get exposed. [10:50] Capitalism as we know it is dead; it has evolved. Simon expands on this further. [12:40] Business leaders and owners will suffer if the societies they live in fail. It is best to re-engineer capitalism that better serves people and the planet. [13:55] Do well by doing good vs. the virtuous spiral of collectivized purpose and action. Simon explains what that means and how they differ. [16:40] COVID-19’s silver lining is that it has been a massive global moment of reflection. Simon shares his thoughts further on the current generation’s awareness that our future is compromised as an optimistic period. [18:45] Strategy vs. tactical execution. Simon shares his objections to stakeholder capitalism. [20:30] Our actions are levers for change if we look at it through the lens of collective action. [24:40] We have defaulted to what makes us the most money, the fastest way, and at the greatest convenience for everyone. Simon describes how that impacts us now. [28:00] There is a great opportunity to leverage social media to reweave the social fabric and remind us of what connects us rather than divides us. Simon shares his thoughts further. [30:40] Much of today’s capitalism transpires through the internet. Jim asks Simon about his thoughts on social media companies’ influence on commerce. [35:45] Humanity is staring itself in the mirror right now and it’s got two versions of reality right now. Simon talks about what they are. [34:40] Jan also asks Simon which brands he thinks are doing things right that others can model from. [37:20] Simon talks about the new generation of entrepreneurs that are coming through and how that makes him optimistic about the future. He shares some examples. [39:35] Jim asks Simon what story comes to his mind that helps us get a better lens on leadership. [44:15] The luxury of thinking about how to fix our future is scarce. Simon shares how we can best create a better future. [46:20] Listener Challenge: 1. Trust your abilities as a leader. 2. Define your company purpose. 3. Work with your team.   Quotable Quotes “There was no strategic plan in place, I just happen to be somebody who’s been lucky enough to have an experience on the power of storytelling.” “I do think it’s a constant of human nature that people would play at it or pay lip service to something but there is nowhere to hide now; you’re gonna be exposed by your customers, you’re gonna be exposed by your employees, you’re gonna be exposed by your investors.” “Capitalism can remain constant but how it shows up can evolve and that’s peculiar to the circumstances we’re in.” “Companies and brands cannot survive in societies that fail.” “It just means that we’ve got to create the synergies and compounding effect between all these individual efforts and companies so that we can meet these challenges with equal force because it is all of our actions that got us into this mess in the first place.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Grab Simon’s book:  

Your hosts of The Leadership Podcast look back on 300 episodes in 6 years!  The tagline is “We Study Leaders,” and Jim and Jan share what they’ve learned from the array of amazing guests. Listen in to learn the number one trait all the guests share; hear what they’ve learned about human nature, teams, tribalism, and how music seems to be a thing many leaders leverage as inspiration. Also, don’t miss their take on the human aspect of many leaders’ stories. Lastly, Jim and Jan share their gratitude for your listenership!   Key Takeaways [1:55] Jim and Jan recall the days when they first started the podcast. [3:35] Jan shares his conversation with Preston Pysh and how that got him into podcasting. [5:30] As an interviewer, you get better over time. Jan shares what he has learned over time. [6:10] They look through the inventory of guests that they’ve interviewed on the show. [8:45] Jan talks about what happens before and after every recording. [10:50 ] Jim shares what he learned about himself through the six years of this show. [12:45] Jim talks about letting people finish, an important lesson he learned from Jen Waldman. [14:25] Jan shares what he has learned from Jim throughout the years. [15:20] Jim and Jan have a mantra for working with other people. They share the three criteria they have to meet. [18:00] Everyone’s message is different, and Jim shares what he hopes the listeners won’t get from them. [21:00] Jim is always curious about their guest’s stories but more than that, it’s the great storytellers that made an impact on him. [24:05] For most of their guests, they’ve focused on the human side of leadership; and Jan shares what he has commonly observed from the majority of them. [25:30] Jim has noticed some interesting patterns from those who are retiring vs. the ones who were younger. [27:00] Major milestones in our lives help prepare us for what we are meant to do in the future. [28:10] There is a gift in struggle and you will never “get there,” because life will always be a journey. [29:20] In the big scheme of things, it’s not about you. Jan shares what some leaders had figured out way sooner than others. [30:00] Jim shares they don’t track statistics of their show. They are just grateful that people are listening and finding value in their conversations. [31:20] Jim closes the episode with a quote from Charles Darwin.   Quotable Quotes “You and I were so obsessed about making sure the show went out every week and perfectly. I just remembered feeling this pressure to do a good job.” — [2:20] “Back then, I wasn’t listening to podcasts. I like to read and I thought ‘I don’t know about this,’ and then he said, ‘You know this is a great excuse to meet really interesting people.’” — [4:35] “Not to be morbid, but we’ve had some guests who have passed away. And I’m so glad that we had an opportunity to speak with them and their story and the things that were important and dear to them were captured.” — [7:40] “Understanding people more deeply and just getting a window into that is so interesting, fascinating, and honestly, fun.” — [9:10] “To work with other people, they have to meet three criteria: They have to be likable, we have to respect them, and we have to trust them.” — [15:20]   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

Don Yaeger is an award-winning Keynote Speaker, Business Leadership Coach, eleven-time New York Times best-selling author, and longtime Associate Editor for Sports Illustrated. He is one of America’s most provocative thought leaders. From first-hand experiences, Don shares lessons on achieving greatness based on working with some of the greatest sports legends in the world. Listen in for some fascinating stories from many of your heroes on how they are intentional, curious, and hate to lose!   Key Takeaways [3:55] With all the great stories that Don has experienced and written about, he shares a backstory from when he graduated university as a starting point for today’s discussion. [5:15] Don shares the one question he asks everyone he interviews. [6:35] His book, Greatness: The 16 Characteristics of True Champions, is a compilation of the top sixteen answers that came up frequently from his interview question. [7:55] If you choose to lose and blame someone, then you will never achieve that next level. [9:15] The mind of a champion is wired intentionally. They know the potential weakness of blaming someone else so they keep themselves from doing it. [10:25] Don shares the one lesson that resonated with him that he learned from coach John Wooden. [12:30] Don is very selective about his inner circle and explains his process on how he chooses them carefully. [15:25] When your people know you care and want what’s best for them, their level of commitment will be off the charts. [18:20] You can become invaluable without being the most valuable. Don shares a story about the year the Cubs won the world series to bring this point home. [22:40] Don learned to be more attentive to the people he doesn’t see often within his organization. [24:45] Getting to the matters of the heart doesn’t happen quickly; it’s about listening well, finding connection, and taking time to find out what drives the other person. [25:50] Trust takes time. Don constantly builds upon the last conversation he has with a person to earn their trust. [28:00] Coaches shared with Don that their relationship with their players changed when their conversations and questions were better structured. [29:50] Don talks about why some teams are capable of being consistently high-performing while others are not. [33:30] Don’s interview with Ed Bastian, the CEO of Delta, was one that really stood out to him. He explains why. [35:30] Jan really enjoyed his conversation and interview with Joel Peterson, the Chairman of JetBlue. He shared what his impact was to him and Jim. [38:35] Everybody is gifted but it’s those who feel comfortable expressing their gifts and have the willingness to be vulnerable with others that makes the team successful. [40:20] Don talks about the days he spent together with Walter Payton when he was writing his autobiography. [41:45] Don asked Walter to pick one day in his future to give up everything else for. Don didn’t write his answer in his book. [44:30] Intentionality is one of Don’s favorite words. [46:20] A great question can be a gift to someone. Don tells an emotional story with Warrick Dunn as an example. [51:15] Listener challenge: Great leaders are curious, ask great questions, listen intently, and they care.   Quotable Quotes “If you’re willing to be curious and willing to ask others about what they believe gave them an edge, it’s amazing what you’ll learn.” — Don Yaeger [6:00] “Losses are just learning opportunities and if you don’t treat them as that, then you’re not gonna be your greatest version of yourself.” — Don Yaeger [8:10] “When people know that you care for them, you speak truth to them and you want what’s best for them, whether it's good for you or not, when they know that, the discretionary energy they will pour into what you’re asking them to do is off the charts.” — Don Yaeger [15:45] “We have invaluable people who we don’t ever give a parking space to; they’re never employee of the month but boy, do they make a difference. And if we can learn to celebrate them, boy, what a game-changer it is.” — Don Yaeger [22:05] “They may act like they are welcoming of me but truth is, they have defenses up and I have to not be bothered by that. I have to recognize it and earn the right for them to let those defenses down.” — Don Yaeger [26:50]   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Grab Don’s books: and  

Sabrina Horn is an award-winning CEO, tech industry communications expert, and advisor with over 30 years of experience.  In 1991, she founded Horn Group, one of Silicon Valley’s most iconic public relations firms, and built it from the ground up to national acclaim. While growing her business and working with countless entrepreneurs and CEOs, she came to understand how deeply a leader’s actions can impact a company’s success. From her book, Make It, Don’t Fake it, Sabrina shares how honesty and authenticity lead to success in business, and in life.   Key Takeaways [2:20] Sabrina has a stamp collection and shares where it all started. [4:30] Talking about her book, Make It, Don’t Fake it, Sabrina shares the different ways people fake it. [5:55] People exaggerate the truth. Sabrina provides some examples. [6:35] Sabrina explains what she calls “ostrich lies.” [7:05] Selective truth-telling can be very dangerous. [9:10] Procrastination or avoiding the truth is more harmful than exaggeration. Sabrina shares a story to explain why. [13:00] Sabrina shares her thoughts on the book, Leadership BS. [15:10] More recently, everybody’s language is all about empathy, humility, and authenticity. This book would not play well today. [17:10] What some leaders do to get power and keep power is to withhold information. Sabrina shares insight on how to handle difficult conversations truthfully. [20:05] It’s tough being a leader and employer managing through the pendulum of a company’s profitability. [22:45] Sabrina talks about imposter syndrome. [24:20] How to deal with imposter syndrome: Meet with everybody, be the director of your own movie, use the “we” word, and lastly, remember that you’ve earned your success. [28:05] Cognitive behavioral therapy and mentors can help you with your imposter syndrome. Sabrina shares her own experience with this. [30:35] Jan asks Sabrina why good PR should have nothing to do with spin. [32:25] It’s not about being better or sexier, faster, or cheaper, it’s about being different. Sabrina shares how honesty can be a great PR strategy now. [35:05] There are so many people clamoring for attention and it feels emotionally draining. Sabrina shares her insights on the best strategy for marketing. [37:55] Because of the amount of information we are being bombarded with now, leaders can’t be numb if we expect our people to be resilient. [40:50] Sabrina shares a piece of advice that is hardest for her to take as well. [42:10:] Sabrina would tell her twenty-nine-year-old self to make an effort to build a team of mentors and advisers and be true to her own convictions. [45:15] Sabrina shares some practices on how to stay true to your own core values as a leader. [48:10] A bad subculture can infect the whole. Sabrina explains how this can relate to your company and brand. [49:20] Sabrina’s closing thoughts: Be successful by doing things the right way.   Quotable Quotes “So, we go from this seemingly innocent not-meaning to do any harm to crossing the line where you actually are saying and doing things with the intent to deceive.” “Hope is not a strategy.” “A leader may be tempted to lie and to deceive in order to get out of a tough situation or under pressure but the problem with that and with all kinds of faking it is ultimately the truth always comes out.” “Imposter syndrome can arise in situations where people don't know who you are, and you don’t know who they are. And you’re walking in there and people think you’re going to put on a show for them.” “Spin really is about us peeling back the onion, getting to the absolute truth so that you can then find a path forward through a crisis or to create a great brand and tell a great story.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Grab Sabrina’s book:  

Banks Benitez joined Uncharted in 2012 as an unpaid intern, and became the CEO in 2017. Since stepping in as CEO, Banks and his leadership have tripled the size of the team and doubled their revenue. Also during the pandemic, Banks moved to a four-day workweek at the same wages. In this episode, Banks shares his insight on the move to a four-day week, and the lessons learned about time management, mental health, and productivity. As a CEO, Banks went  from 52 hours a week to 34 hours a week!   Key Takeaways [1:50] Advice Jim and Jan give to veterans is, “If you hear about really interesting people, just reach out to them.” [2:20] Banks has not only grown his organization to triple its size but shifted to a four-day workweek. [5:20] Banks is currently reading Making Numbers Count, by Chip Heath. [6:20] Banks shares his story on how he got selected for Rotary International. [9:35] Jan believes understanding anthropology will also help you towards being a better leader. [11:00] Banks talks a little bit about his company, Uncharted, and the inspiration behind it. [12:15] It’s so easy to be a fixer of problems. As a leader, Banks found himself spending all of his time making things “less bad.” [13:35] Banks and his COO decided to change things up after feeling burned out within the company. They decided to go on the offensive instead of being on the defensive. [17:55] Banks is a few months into his company working on a four-day workweek. He shares his results so far. [20:35] Banks was nervous at first when he had to talk to his investors and clients about this. He was worried they would not see him as a serious company. [23:15] Banks has noticed that his team really hates a three-day week. [24:55] Prior to converting over to a four-day workweek, Banks decided to hire a third party to help evaluate the productivity and measure if it made sense to convert over. [28:34] The book Essentialism, by Greg McKeown was critical in determining what was important work and what was not. [29:55] Jim and Jan hear topics about mental health all the time with their clients. It’s important. People are getting burned out. [30:30] You can easily quantify turnover costs and when people burn out, and how much it takes to replace that talent. A four-day workweek makes you competitive. [35:50] Banks explains how Uncharted works and how they’ve been a successful non-profit company. [37:40] Entrepreneurs who are successful tend to be coachable and follow up/follow through. [39:45] Sell the problem, not the solution. [43:55] Busyness and working “hard” is a cultural value that needs to be questioned. [44:35] When Banks closes his laptop on Thursday night, he still feels incomplete. There’s still a lot to get done. [45:35] The more you focus on brute force hard work, the less you are refining your “decisive” muscle. [48:40] Listener challenge: Plant yourself in the richest soil you possibly can.   Quotable Quotes “It’s so easy to be a fixer of problems. It’s easier to fill holes, but it’s harder to build peaks.” “We spent the whole month of May in 2020 to how we might optimize our work week; the ways we could get smarter about how we structure our time.” “Not all hours of the workweek are created equally. They are some hours that are productive. There are some hours that are a complete waste of time.” “My day before, I was working 52 hours a week. Now I am down to 34 hours a week.” “The best entrepreneurs that we work with are those who are really good at handling a lot of loose ties.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

Ralf Specht has been called “a visionary business leader” by FastCompany Press, and he is the creator of the Soul System™, a framework that aligns value-creating employee action with broader corporate strategy through shared understanding and purpose. Ralf is the author of, “Building Corporate Soul.” Corporate soul means integrity, shared purpose, shared understanding, and behaviors. Listen in to learn how “soul” can make a difference  with talent attraction and retention.   Key Takeaways [4:40] Ralf shares why it’s hard to execute on value-first behaviors within the business world. [8:20] Mission, vision, and values get blurred a lot. Ralf details how soul and spirit also play a part in the overall company objective, and how you can blend them together. [10:00] Ralf defines what purpose, vision, mission, and values mean to him. [11:45] Ralf uses LinkedIn as an example of how they effectively live out each of these unique distinctions. [16:15] Ralf gives three examples of companies that were purchased because of their culture, and how they were able to maintain that culture after an acquisition. [19:40] Ralf offers ways individuals can gauge whether their company has a high level of trust within their culture. [22:35] For the corporate soul to really thrive and grow, there needs to be a certain set of principles. Each chapter in Ralf’s book has “soul-searching” questions to help leaders explore these unique principles. [27:40] Ralf breaks down what the soul index is and how it was calculated. [29:45] Patagonia is often mentioned as a great example of a timeless and impactful company that lives out its company’s values, but it wasn’t mentioned in Ralf’s soul index. He explains the reasoning behind this. [32:30] There is a great resignation happening right now. Ralf offers insight into why employees are really leaving. [35:35] Jan understands it’s often hard to develop certain characteristics within people like drive and curiosity. [38:35] Ralf shares how interview candidates can vet and gauge whether a prospective company has a corporate soul. [40:35] If you’re interested in a job position, ask if you can talk to three happy employees within the company. [43:00] If you’re always surrounded by yes-men, you’re not going to really get what you want. [44:35] Listener challenge: You need a great corporate culture to be successful in business.   Quotable Quotes “When I talk ‘purpose,’ I am talking about the reason for being in business. When I’m talking ‘vision,’ it’s to imagine a world that does not yet exist. ‘Mission’ is the overall goal and what kind of product we provide, and ‘values’ are beliefs/principles that define the business.” “Corporate soul means integrity, shared purpose, shared understanding, and behaviors.” “It’s the people in the company who understand whether the company has got soul.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Grab Ralf’s book:  

Ann Latham is the founder of Boston-area consulting firm Uncommon Clarity, Inc. and author of The Power of Clarity. Ann spent the first half of her career working in high-tech companies, beginning as a software engineer and winding up reporting to the CEO and leading cross-functional and cross-divisional efforts to set strategy and make operational improvements. Ann shares how to create clarity within your organization to increase productivity, increase your confidence and effectiveness towards people, and empower your employees to maximize their contributions.   Key Takeaways [3:00] Ann shares her experience hiking through the Swiss Alps and her greatest takeaway from it. [6:15] The feeling of clarity is rare in today’s times where things seem to be more complicated. Ann explains why that is. [7:55] All activities that are moving cognitive objects are inefficient and ineffective because there is no clear process in making decisions. [9:00] Ann talks about how to get more formalized processes into cognitive activities in a business or organization. [10:45] There are a lot of tools we could use but there is no one way to create a strategy. [12:40] Ann shares how to break the cycle of busyness. [14:45] She also talks about the three different ways you can create clarity as a mid-level leader. [15:55] There are only five effective ways to deal with too much workload. Ann explains each one of them and adds that number six is called, “wishful thinking.” [18:40] Patience vs. Clarity. Ann shares an example of what clarity really means: to not need patience. [22:05] Patience is important when you are asking for people to change their behavior or to understand new concepts. [24:05] Some leaders might not have an idea how to create clarity so they have no idea how to teach someone else to be clear. Ann shares her evolution from when she was just starting as a consultant. [25:25] She urges leaders to read her book to understand why they aren’t being clear enough and learn the techniques she has. [26:20] Ann shares the two reasons why big decisions are rarely big decisions. [30:15] Using a disciplined decision-making process can help define which decisions are the critical ones. Ann shares four steps on how to do that. [33:35] A lot of what Ann shares falls into common sense but leaders can still lack the level of specificity required to make things clear. [35:30] Ann explains further what is the dynamic between creating clarity as a leader vs. as an employee. [37:50] Everyone hates meetings and Ann uses this as an example to distinguish clarity. Everyone should know what must be different when they are done. [42:00] Ann also talks about two ways people delegate and the key to no-risk delegation. [44:55] Listener Challenge: We are not as clear as we think we are. The power of clarity creates a huge opportunity.   Quotable Quotes “If you think about asking people how they make decisions, you’ll get as many answers as the number of people you ask. There isn’t a shared clear method for making decisions.” “The farther you get from the production processes, the less clear we are.” “If you’re not specific enough and you’re running in too many different directions, you don’t create clarity at all. You create a mess.” “They (the mid-level leaders) have to push back. And by pushing back, they help themselves and they also help the people who report to them.” “If you break things down into what those cascading decisions are, you can get into places much faster.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Grab Ann’s book:  

Stephan Aarstol is well known for his appearance on Shark Tank as the founder and CEO of Tower Paddle Boards and Tower Electric Bikes. After being funded by Mark Cuban on ABC’s Shark Tank in 2012, Tower went on to become one of the biggest success stories in the history of the show. As an internet business entrepreneur since 1999, Stephan felt it was time for another disruption and wanted to  force creative thinking? Through his new book, The Five Hour Workday. In this episode, Stephan shares the principles needed to spark creative thinking, and why it doesn’t take a traditional eight-hour day.   Key Takeaways [2:10] Stephan shares something about himself that not many people know about. [3:10] Stephan explains what is the most important leadership quality an entrepreneur needs. [5:55] In the tech world where everything is fast-changing, we need to keep pace and be more agile. Stephan shares what are the early warning signs to be aware of. [7:05) Stephan shares an example of how not to spend money unnecessarily in order to be profitable. [10:25] Stephan is known for having the worst pitch on Shark Tank. Despite this, he was still able to land the deal. [12:40] Stephan shares what his go-to questions would be if he was a Shark on Shark Tank. [16:05] As a mature business owner, Stephan looks at things differently now. However, when you have nothing to lose, that’s the perfect time to start a business. [18:00] Stephan talks about his journey into writing The Five Hour Workday. [20:25] The key difference between Stephan’s book and Tim Ferriss’s The Four Hour Work Week was that Ferriss’s book was about individuals outsourcing their work and compressing their days. Stephan wanted to apply the same principles to an organizational framework. [21:45] During the pandemic when Tower was about to go bankrupt, they used their ability to work faster to double their productivity. They did it for a year and were able to double their revenues. [22:30] Stephan shares how he overcame the challenge for his organization to use The Five Hour Workday as a motivation rather than an entitlement. [24:35] The pandemic created a constraint for all businesses and his book has found new interest because work has changed now. The pandemic allowed businesses to go into creative thinking. [25:45] Remote work is going to work for at least 10% of the population as they are intrinsically motivated. However, the remaining 90% look for the path of least resistance. Stephan shares his prediction and why remote work could be a disaster. [28:00] Being called The World’s Best Boss, Stephan shares his thoughts about having this title. [31:00] Constraint is how you change the way you work from being traditional to becoming disruptive and forcing creative thinking. [33:10] Stephan also talks about his key takeaway from Tim Ferris’s book: Management by absence. [34:30] One of the biggest leadership lessons Stephan had was going through trial and error. [35:50] The biggest advantage of being an entrepreneur with a small company is you get to pick the people you take on your journey and experience hardships with. [37:05] Looking back, Stephan shares what he would do differently, historically and moving forward. [42:00] Listener challenge: We’re in a scary time. Figure out how to get your burn rate to negative and diversify.   Quotable Quotes “When you’re in college, this is the time to have a business because you have nothing to lose. You have no experience - and you have nothing to lose.” “We squeezed people for time during the busy season and that’s the magic of it. You put an unrealistic constraint and that forces creative thinking.” “Start-ups basically disrupt the world constantly and it’s because of constraints. Constraint is the way you do it. That’s what we did with The Five Hour Workday.” “The world has changed and we have these very powerful companies. We are in a really scary time right now and I would say, go for cover and figure out how to get your burn rate to negative and diversify.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Grab Stephan’s book:  

Brant Cooper is the New York Times bestselling author of “The Lean Entrepreneur,” and the CEO of Moves the Needle. With over two decades of expertise helping companies bring innovative products to market, he blends agile, design thinking, and lean methodologies to ignite entrepreneurial action. Brant’s new book, “Disruption Proof,” explores the three drivers of leadership and organizational disruption, and how leaders today can use this power to embrace uncertainty for maximum effect.   Key Takeaways [3:35] When we are successful, we want to take credit. When we fail, we retreat and examine why. [4:10] Disruption creates the opportunity for the entrepreneurial mindset. [6:15] Brant defines disruption. [7:00] The pandemic was brutal for many businesses, but this is just a small learning lesson for what’s to come. We will see multiple bubbles of disruption. [8:25] When it comes to disruption, Brant uses the acronym RAD = Resilient, Aware, Dynamic. [11:55] When faced with uncertainty, create as many small experiments as you can to gain a better understanding and bring more unknown information into the known. [12:55] Jim shares an example of how Rockefeller innovated in times of uncertainty and disruption. [15:30] The biggest setbacks in business are when businesses don’t explore and illuminate assumptions. [16:25] Brant shares his thoughts on how you can cultivate a RAD mindset throughout the entire organization. [20:45] Managers’ new role isn’t to micromanage and be “on top” of their people, it’s to cultivate a learning environment. [24:55] Brant breaks down how you can test out your riskiest assumption first in a safe way. [31:00] A good team doesn’t just depend on one leader. They depend on each other and even team members might switch between being the leader themselves, based on their expertise. [35:25] Companies are always focused on being under budget and on time, which leaves gaps in developing their talent. [40:00] Brant shares examples of how companies of the past have empowered their people to solve tricky problems in the moment. [43:00] Not everyone understands what it means to be “empowered.” Leaders need to set an example of what that actually looks like. [45:55] Listener challenge: Put an expiration date on the calendar to explore uncertainties.   Quotable Quotes “Failure is where the wisdom comes from, not from your successes.” “I don’t think this is the last major disruption that’s going to roll across our economy.” “We are living in this interconnected mesh network world with the speed of information. It’s this connectedness that makes us more fragile to disruptions.” “Our first inclination is that everyone wants to be empowered and everyone knows how to be empowered, and it’s really not that way.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Grab Brant’s book:  

As the CEO of Imagine Think, Nora Herting helps expand the definition of creativity in the business world. As the author of the best-selling book, “Draw Your Big Idea,” Nora has inspired thousands to think visually to access their own creativity. Nora breaks down the myth that drawing is only for the creatives, and showcases real examples of how leaders can add another dimension to their ideas (and execution effectiveness)  through simple doodles. Listen in to  unlock and inspire others in new ways beyond the written word!   Key Takeaways [3:15] Nora shares insight about visual leadership. [5:00] Paintings have been a form of communication for thousands of years. [7:10] When we use our brain, we don’t just use the right brain or the left brain hemispheres while doing a task, we use the entire brain. [9:10] If you or your team is stuck somewhere, try drawing a picture! [9:15] Nora explains how leaders can empower their staff to embrace their artistic side more effectively. [14:45] Jim shares an example of how powerful visuals are in a presentation to bring home the core message. [20:10] An important skill to have is to patiently wait for people to finish and to know when they’ve finished their point. [21:55] Nora shares the difference between having a liberal arts degree vs. an MBA. [25:35] Instead of looking within your industry and what the competition is doing, look elsewhere. Look at politics, cultural events, or other industries not related to you for inspiration. [28:05] Creatives and implementers tend to clash with one another, but Jim talks about the book Loonshots and how you can blend these two groups together for collaboration. [34:10] Nora offers resources on the types of visual tools leaders and teams can use. [35:55] Jim and Jan admit that their handwriting is horrible. It’s hard to multitask when talking and writing. [37:00] If you have terrible handwriting, Nora offers a quick tip on how to fix this. [39:45] Listener challenge: Ask your team to draw out the description of their role and what they do every day.   Quotable Quotes “If you’re stuck on a problem, try solving that problem visually.” “We are wired to think in pictures and we’ve been doing it as a species for so long.” “The business world has a real fascination with creativity, but it mystifies business leaders.” “Artists are looking outside for inspiration all the time. They’re not just looking at what people in their field are doing but they’re pulling things from all over, like science, politics, and cultural events.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Grab Nora’s book,

Peter Docker is the co-author of the book, Find Your Why, and formerly a founding Igniter at Simon Sinek Inc. He draws on his 25-year career in the Royal Air Force, and over 14 years spent partnering with businesses around the world to inspire them to lead. Peter teaches people how to navigate the challenge of leadership. His latest book, Leading from the Jumpseat, delivers the message that leadership is about lifting people up, and giving them the space they need to lead!   Key Takeaways [2:15] Peter reveals an interesting fact about him when he was at the age of 42. [3:35] Peter tells the story behind the Jumpseat Leader when he was still flying with the Royal Air Force. [7:34] As a leader, handing over control is inevitable at some stage. Leading from the jumpseat is a mindset and approach which helps us to lead intentionally in that perspective. [10:20] Peter talks about the four parts of his book through metaphors of flying: Learning To Fly, Flying, Teaching Others To Fly, and Leading From The Jumpseat. [11:30] These stages are not meant to be a single progression. We can be at different stages in different aspects of our life. [15:25] It takes a lot of time to teach and develop people. Peter shares more analogies on how leaders can better manage in order to delegate. [16:25] Delegation is not abdication of responsibility. It only frees up space for leaders to focus on most things that only they have authority over. [17:30] In the short term, the pace will be slow but in the long term, delegating will allow your team to accelerate much more quickly. [22:20] Peter also shares his insights on how to teach followership as a leader. [23:15] Individualism and teamwork are not mutually exclusive. Peter explains why he thinks so. [28:40] As leaders, we can create opportunities for people to have a choice which is very important for their engagement. [29:50] Context vs. content. Peter tells a story about a young woman named Louise who challenged herself to climb the Island Peak of Nepal to illustrate why context is vital. [34:50] Learning and being kind to ourselves is very important in leadership. The willingness to get up every morning to do a little bit better goes a long way. [36:45] Exploring what is really important to us releases enormous energy once we are able to connect to it. Peter tells another story with his wife being involved in an accident as an example. [42:20] The promise we make to ourselves is actually about other people. Peter explains why it is so. [43:26] Peter shares his experience in the Iraq war back in 2003 to give more context in regards to the promise we keep for ourselves towards others. [45:00] Making a promise to yourself is more powerful when it is in service to others. [47:25] Listener challenge: Learn to lead when you don’t know the answer.   Quotable Quotes “We all eventually give out control. And it’s about preparing our people so they can take the lead when the time is right.” “We’re right back down at the bottom again, trying to figure out how to fly. But that’s the wonderful thing about it because it gives us the opportunity to maintain our humility to continue to learn and embrace the unknown.” “Delegation is not abdication and also it is not an excuse for micromanagement.” “We want to be involved in things; it’s nice to be able to handle stuff and get stuff done. But every time we take on more things, the slower our team’s progress becomes.” “If we are always the guy who has the answer, we become the constriction in the pipe.” “As a leader, what we can do is to shift the context so that people see what they are struggling against and see it instead as an opportunity to be taken on. And that then gives them the chance to really push themselves.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Grab Peter’s books, and