Matt Abrahams is our special guest for this episode. He is a strategic communication lecturer from Stanford University's Graduate School of Business, host of "Think Fast, Talk Smart" podcast, and the author of the new book “Think Faster, Talk Smarter.”In this episode, we explore the significance of spontaneous communication, strategies to manage anxiety, the correlation between martial arts and communication, and tips on navigating networking situations.Matt AbrahamsMatt Abrahams is a passionate, collaborative and innovative educator, author, podcast host, and coach. He is the Larsen Lam Family Lecturer in Organizational Behavior at Stanford University’s Graduate School of Business where he teaches two very popular classes in Strategic Communication and Effective Virtual Presenting. He received Stanford GSB’s Alumni Teaching Award in recognition of his valued service to teaching Stanford Alumni around the world.In addition to his teaching, Matt is much sought-after keynote speaker and communication consultant for Fortune 100 companies. His online talks garner millions of views and he hosts the popular, award winning GSB podcast called Think Fast Talk Smart.Matt is especially interested in applying communication knowledge to real-world issues. In service of this goal, he published Speaking Up Without Freaking Out, which is now in its 3rd edition. His book was written to help people present and communicate in a more confident, connected, and compelling manner.Prior to teaching, Matt held senior leadership positions at several software companies, where he created and ran global learning and development organizations.Matt received his undergraduate degree in psychology from Stanford University, his graduate degree in communication studies from the University of California at Davis, and his secondary education teaching credential from San Francisco State University. He is a prolific writer with articles published for the GSB as well as Fast Company, Toastmasters Magazine, Inc.com, Quartz, etc. He has also published several research articles on strategic planning, persuasion, and interpersonal communication.⚡️ In each episode, Paddy Dhanda deep dives into a new human Superpower and gives practical advice on how you can apply it immediately.👉 Sign-up to Newsletter: https://www.superpowers.school/subscribe★ BUY ME A COFFEE ★If you enjoy the podcast, then you can donate a small amount here as a token of your appreciation: https://ko-fi.com/paddydhandaTranscription:[00:00:57] Paddy Dhanda: Hello friend, welcome to another episode of the Superpower School podcast. I'm your host Paddy Danda. And on today's show I have the most amazing guest. And I say that with absolute conviction, because I've been following this guest for the past few months and I'm so honoured to have him today. He's a passionate and collaborative...And innovative educator, author, podcast host, and coach. He's a lecturer at Stanford University's Graduate School of Business, where he teaches strategic communication. He's the host of the award winning podcast, Think Fast, Talk Smart. And he's recently launched his book titled, Think Faster. Talk smarter how to speak successfully when you're put on the spot and in my own words He is the mr.Miyagi of conversation and small talk. Welcome to the show Matt Abrahams.[00:01:54] Matt Abrahams: Paddy, it is a true pleasure to be here with you. I have to say, I love your voice. Your introduction of me love listening to it. And you know that I love the martial arts, and the Karate Kid was an important movie early in my life. while I think completely untrue, I think it is very kind of you to compare me to Mr.Miyagi. I will not be catching flies with chopsticks, though.[00:02:15] Paddy Dhanda: I think there's definitely an element of wax on wax off because i've heard some of your interviews in the past and you simplify things so much that I think they're Easy for anybody just to pick up and try out. So I do like that part of the analogy. We'll leave the flies and the chopsticks then for today.charge. Okay, thankMatt's Background and Passion for Communication[00:02:36] Paddy Dhanda: So, Matt, I would love to get to know you a bit better. And what I was wondering was if you could tell us about the younger version of yourself. So when you were growing up as a child, what was Matt Abrahams like? And how did you discover this passion for communication?[00:02:54] Matt Abrahams: Well, as a young lad, as you might say I, the one thing that I think characterizes me is I've always been very curious, even from a young age, I was very curious and I was always interested in stories and other people's stories. I wasn't much of a reader, although I did read I was very interested in film.I in fact wanted to be a movie director got into film school actually and chose not to go. That was one of the most interesting and challenging decisions I made. So I've always been fascinated by story. I've always been fascinated by language and the way people use language to influence others.I tell a story that's very true. When I was around seven or eight years old, my mother asked my brother and me to have a garage sale. We had so much stuff. She wanted to get rid of it. A garage sale, yard sale. Not sure how that translates across the pond here, but essentially you put stuff out on your front yard and people come by and buy it from you.And I grew up in a community where lots of people did that. And my mother instructed my brother and me to write a sign that was misspelled. So instead of garage sale, we inserted the letter B in the middle. So we had a garbage sale while everybody else had garage sales. And we sold more stuff that weekend than anybody else in the neighborhood .And to this day, my mother believes it's because our sign stood out. I think people thought we were stupid and they would get better deals, but it was, Around that time, I came to see that wording, language matters. It can influence people. We had more people coming by, so I've always been interested in it.And it's something that to this day, I'm still curious about .[00:04:22] Paddy Dhanda: Oh, brilliant. Brilliant.The Role of Anxiety in Communication[00:04:24] Paddy Dhanda: And, you mentioned you have a passion for martial arts as well. Like how did that develop?[00:04:28] Matt Abrahams: Yeah, I think you're fishing for a story. So I'll tell the story when I was 14 years old. I was asked by my high school English teacher, literature teacher, to go to a speech tournament. It was the first day of class, everybody had to stand up and say what we did that summer.And I, of course, went first with the last name Abrahams. I always went first. And at the end of class, Mr. Meredith, the teacher, came up to me and said, You're good at this talking thing. Those were his words. You need to go to this speech tournament this coming Saturday. Each teacher, I think, had to send a student, so I was his student.And he told me, Give a speech on something you're passionate about and at the time, and still to this day, many decades later, I'm still passionate about the martial arts. So I gave a speech on karate, or planned to. I show up 7. 30 in the morning on a Saturday. The room is packed. The parents of my friends are judging this event.My friends are there. The girl I like is sitting in the back of the room. I am so nervous, Paddy. I shaking. I forgot to put on my karate pants. And if you know anything about the martial arts, the pants that you wear have are very loose fitting. You can see where this story is going. I started the speech with a karate kick and I did this kick.In the first 10 seconds of my 10 minute speech, and I ripped my pants from zipper to belt buckle. It was horrific. I was totally panicked. It demonstrated to me. How important anxiety is in communication and from that moment on I have been fascinated by the impact of anxiety on communication I've studied it I've written about it and I really work to help people feel more confident and it all boils down to a 15 year old boy Standing partially naked in front of a class or a group of people I actually finished the speech and did pretty well not because I was a good speaker But mostly because people took pity on me and I finished the talk[00:06:18] Paddy Dhanda: Wow, Matt, I was thinking about this story myself because I had a,I had an introduction to martial arts, a very small introduction as well when I was a kid and I started judo, which isa lot of wrestling and throwing.And I remember one of my first sessions I went to. I was paired up with this young girl, and I never forget her because she was a little bit shorter than I, and she had ginger hair, and that was the most striking aspect of her, but all I remember is she threw me to the ground so hard thatI couldn't breathe anymore, and my cousin who was there, he never let me live that moment down, and I think it was Must have impacted me deeply because I never went back and and so I don't know which is more embarrassing, ripping your trousers or being thrown by this small gingerhead girl,[00:07:08] Matt Abrahams: had a very similar experience in the martial arts. I was asked to spar with a petite girl at the time. I was a boy and I thought, Oh, I'm going to take it easy because , I'm a guy and she kicked my butt left and right. And that is a lesson that I remember. All the time because one it told me some things about gender inequity and the abilities of people.And two it also taught me not to judge a book by its cover. I mean, she was far superior to me, continues to be to this day. And I just I, I was in my head thinking about stereotypes and preconceptions and I literally learned the hard way that , that's not the[00:07:48] Paddy Dhanda: Oh, wow. And when we talk about conversation, Matt it's quite a broad topic. I mean, communication conversation,communication,The Importance of Spontaneous Communication[00:07:57] Paddy Dhanda: but you very much focus on spontaneous communication. So, first of all, what is that? And why is it so important?[00:08:05] Matt Abrahams: And why is it so important? So if you think about it, Paddy, most of our communication is not the planned type of communication. It's not the presentation we create slides for in practice.It's not the pitch that we deliver. It's not the meetings with agendas. Most of our communication in our personal and professional lives happens in the moment. You asked me a question. You asked me for feedback. I need to introduce myself or others. I have to give a toast in the moment. Maybe I have to apologize or fix a mistake that I've made or even make small talk.None of that is planned. It happens in the moment and it is enriching. It's an opportunity to collaborate and connect. That can be very exciting. But for many of us, it's very daunting. We don't know what to say. We want to. Sound intelligent. We want to do it well. So there's a lot of pressure in these in the moment spontaneous situations.And so I've dedicated a lot of my past decade or so developing a methodology and helping people feel more comfortable and confident speaking in the moment.[00:09:06] Paddy Dhanda: Now, we have this saying in the UK that certain people just have the gift of the gab.[00:09:11] Matt Abrahams: have the gift of the[00:09:12] Paddy Dhanda: I don't know if that's something that resonates in[00:09:14] Matt Abrahams: something. Yeah, nogift of the gap is said here And so, is this not just a natural talent that a lot of people have? Or is this something that we have to work hard at?[00:09:25] Matt Abrahams: have So the answer is yes to both. The book I wrote and the work I do has several counterintuitive notions in it. And one counterintuitive notion is that we can all get better at it.The ability to speak spontaneously is, like any other skill, one that with work, you can improve on. Now, there are some people, by virtue of experience, maybe personality type, who are more conservative might have a slight advantage in that they are more willing to take risks and do it. Or perhaps they're more extroverted and enjoy just connecting with people, but everybody has the opportunity to get better at it.I have seen it in my own personal life with myself, with my family. I've seen it with the students I teach and the people I coach. So you absolutely can improve, but it does take work. And that's the second counterintuitive notion in the work I do, which is that you can prepare. to be spontaneous. And that sounds strange.But again, if you think about athletics, if you think about music, you practice to do well. So a jazz musician doesn't just randomly make up notes, they actually play chords and progressions that they've practiced before. An athlete drills over and over again so that when they're in the moment of playing the game, they have tools and preparation that helps them respond agilely in that moment.[00:10:42] Paddy Dhanda: That's fascinating because recently my son, who's 11, started high school. And andwhen he started, He made one friend and this other friend really struggled to make more friends because I don't think anyone had really Taught him or given him this exposure to be able to go into an uncomfortable situation and just start making small talk so unfortunately He really disliked school for the first few days because he was just having such a hard time making friends.And I just thinkmaking personally, having seen that experience, it brought home to me just how important these skills are. And I wish someone had taught me a few lessons at a young age, but it's not something that school really covers. And and so I'm so glad. That you're doing this work because it's much needed.[00:11:31] Matt Abrahams:what I see younger kids being taught...today is far different than what you and I did. So, for example I have a six, six and a half year old nephew. And when I hear about what he's doing in first grade one here, they're requiring collaboration. They're doing group work. They're doing, they're presenting that work. So it is something that the younger children are being exposed to much more than I was in my education, but you're absolutely right .We don't have a formal way of teaching these. critical and essential skills.[00:12:02] Paddy Dhanda: Oh, I love that. I wish they would do more of that here and so Sometimes when I introduce myself to people I tell them I used to be a professional introvert And now i'm addicted to conversationI'm addicted tothrough my work On this podcast because I get to speak to strangers every week andweek. Yeah.I have reflected on what was the moment where I sort of switch from that more introverted person.I still am, but I'm much better in terms of engaging and having the guts to go over to someone and speak to them.go over toBut I guess anxiety plays a really important part in overcoming our fears. And I know you've done a lot of work in this space.Overcoming Communication Anxiety[00:12:42] Paddy Dhanda: Your previous book was very much. Focused on this, could you tell us a few insights on how could we overcome that anxiety, especially if someone at home is feeling a little bit under pressure when they're put into these situations,put into these situations?[00:12:58] Matt Abrahams: Yeah, absolutely happy to help and to share some ideas. I want to start first by congratulating you for really reflecting and becoming more comfortable with the uncomfortable.That's a big step in many endeavors. I would like to share a few thoughts I have about and and extroversion . Many of us feel that when we are introverted, by definition, not good at communication. In fact, introverts, by their nature, tend to be very good at conversation.They are very open to learning and listening. Introverts listen first. and synthesize and process, and it turns out in group functioning, those skills are really important. We need a blend of people who are more extroverted and introverted. So Introverts are not bad . You need introverts. In fact, introverts exhibit many of the behaviors that are successful in collaboration and connection and communication.That said, introverts tend to be slightly more fearful of speaking than extroverts. But extroverts can be quite scared of speaking as well. I believe the fear of speaking in front of others is innate to being human. It's something that's just part of who we are .But what's more important is that we can learn to manage the anxiety that we feel . And I use manage very carefully. I don't think we can ever truly overcome our anxiety, nor do I think that we would want to. Anxiety is helpful. It gives us energy, helps us focus, but we want to manage it so it doesn't manage us.So in the first book I wrote, Speaking Up Without Freaking Out, I provide 50 academically verified techniques for managing anxiety. I do not expect every technique to work for every person. I'm happy if three to five seem to work. And they fall into two primary categories, Paddy. They first fall into symptoms and then sources.How to relieve the symptoms. I'm curious, when you get nervous, Patty, what happens for you? I blush, I turn red, and I sweat, I perspire. I[00:14:54] Paddy Dhanda: I probably start telling really bad jokes. jokes.I try and sort of be really funny and I'm not, and I'm just like trying to fill the void with that stuff. Yeah. that stuff.[00:15:04] Matt Abrahams: Interestingly, that's a technique that many people use.It's a technique of trying to connect. And through that connection, you begin to feel more comfortable. And there are lots of ways to do that, that you can do that by asking a question. Asking people to contribute their point of view on something. Humor is risky because if it's not funny, it actually makes things more awkward, but it can serve, a good joke can serve connect .So that's one way of doing it. So when it comes to symptomatic relief, things that we experience, the single best thing you can do is take a deep belly breath. If you've ever done yoga or tai chi, it's a deep lower abdomen fill. And the key is to exhale. It is during the exhale that all the magic happens, the anxiety reducing hormones and experience happens then.There are other things you can do as well. You can do some purposeful movement. That helps with the shakiness that many people feel. The shakiness is from adrenaline trying to move you from threat to safety. So if I step in with big, broad gestures, if I'm standing in front of people, that can cause the shakiness to abate.Someone like me just needs to cool myself down. We sweat and perspire because our heart is beating faster and our body is tensing up. So our blood pressure is going up. It's like when we exercise. So we get hotter. So you can cool yourself down and a great way to do that is just to hold something in the palms of your hand.The palms of your hand are thermoregulators for your body. Just like your forehead, if you've ever had a fever and put a cold compress on your forehead, same thing happens. So, on a cold morning you've probably held warm tea or coffee in a cup in your hands and felt it warm you up. So there are things we can do to manage symptoms.Sources also have to do with... Sources are the things that initiate and exacerbate anxiety. One way to deal with it is what you do, which is to try to connect with the audience. I do as well. I always try to have a individual conversation with somebody in the audience before I speak.You can do other things. Get yourself present oriented. Many of us are made nervous by Worrying about achieving the goal we have. A goal is a future state. So if I can make myself present oriented, I'm less nervous about that future state. So talking to people is a great way to do it. Doing something physical, like light exercise, walking around the room.You can count backwards from 100 by some challenging number. I tell people try 17s, listen to a song or a playlist like athletes do. I say tongue twisters to help me get. present oriented. So the bottom line is this. There are many things you can do to manage your symptoms and sources. You just have to work at it .And eventually you will begin to feel more confident and less anxious.[00:17:40] Paddy Dhanda: Oh, thank you for that. And some great advice there.[00:17:43] Matt Abrahams: GreatInsights from Matt's Book Think Faster, Talk Smarter[00:17:43] Paddy Dhanda: Now, I would love to hear some of the insights from the book, but I know we've got a real shortage of time and you can possibly do it justice in 10 minutes, but could you just give us a broad explanation of some of the key insights from the book?[00:17:58] Matt Abrahams: insights Thank you. And I will try to distill this down as clearly as I can. So the book is based on a methodology I developed several years ago at Stanford's Graduate School of Business to help our amazingly bright students get through a big challenge they have, which is the teacher's cold call. When the professor looks at them and says, what do you think, several of us, myself included, still have nightmares from experiences we've had with that.So the methodology has six steps. It's divided into four that have to do with mindset and two that have to do with messaging. The mindset starts with managing anxiety. I've already spent a few moments talking about that. The second step is to actually reduce the pressure we put on ourselves. Many of us, when we communicate, especially spontaneously, we want to do it right.We want to give the right answer, the best feedback. We want to be the most interesting in small talk. And that puts a tremendous amount of pressure on ourselves. We have to adjust our mindset. And say, Hey, in these situations, I just need to get it done. I just need to answer the question. I just need to give the feedback.I just need to respond to the small talk. Because when I'm judging and evaluating how good I am doing in the moment, how well I'm doing, it actually gets in the way of doing well at all. Because I'm dedicating part of my cognitive bandwidth. And we have limited cognitive bandwidth. Just like a computer can only do so much.And the more windows and apps you have open, the slower it performs. Same thing is true with our brains. So if I focus less on judging and evaluating and focus more on just getting it done. I do it better. So I have a saying I like to say to my MBA students on the very first class. I say, maximize mediocrity so you can achieve greatness.And these students have never been told to be mediocre, but they understand what I mean is that when you just work to get the communication done, you actually free up resources to do it well. So that's step two. Step three is all about seeing these as opportunities. Many of us, when we're told we're going to be asked questions, panic and we say, Oh my goodness, I have to defend my position.I have to show myself as bright. I have to demonstrate that I know what I'm talking about. So we become very defensive and that changes the way we speak and what we say. Yet if we were to envision even challenging questions and feedback, et cetera, as opportunities to extend, expand, collaborate. It changes our demeanor.We become more approachable. We give more detail. So the third step is really to see these things as opportunities. And then the fourth mindset step is listening. And you are a great listener, Paddy. Not only have you been great to me, but I've listened to other episodes. You listen very well. Most people don't.And it is in that listening that if we listen poorly, we miss listening. potential clues and cues that could help us respond better. So we have to listen for the bottom line, what's really being said. Most of us listen just enough to get a gist of what somebody's saying, and then we start rehearsing and practicing and distracting ourselves.So those are the four steps, anxiety management, Get out of your own way . See it as an opportunity. Listen better. And then the last two steps have to do with messaging. I am a huge fan of structure. And by structure I simply mean a logical connection of ideas. Many of us just ramble on and list information when we're put on the spot.And that gets in the way of others understanding us. Our brains are wired to process structured information, stories, not lists. I challenge you and any of your listeners to think of a list that's more than five or seven things and how hard it is just to remember it, let alone process it. So if we can put things in a structure, and let me give you an example of a structure, the one most people are familiar with.If you've ever seen an advertisement, you've seen problem. solution benefit. Here's a problem. Here's how our product or service serves that problem. And here are the benefits. And you can do the same when you're advocating for something, pitching for something, sharing ideas, using a structure like problem, solution, benefit can help.And then the final step is what I call the F word of communication, not the naughty one, but focus. Many of us, when we are speaking in the moment, take our audiences on the journey of our discovery of what we're saying. We say more than we need to. In this day and age, the most precious resource we have is attention.And if I am rambling on and on, as I feel like I'm doing in this answer, and I apologize, we are not focused and people get distracted . So the last two steps, the messaging steps are have a structure and be focused. I did pretty well, only two minutes to go through the whole methodology.[00:22:33] Paddy Dhanda: Well, like I said, we couldn't possibly do it justice in the short space of time we've got here, but there's so many hooks right there. And I would love to explore those in more detail, but I'm going to have to get the book and do that deeper dive do that. Very quickly, Matt. As we wrap up this episode, I had a few real world situations that I was.Hoping to put to you and just to get your hints and tips on those.Real World Applications: Networking Tips[00:22:57] Paddy Dhanda: So I've been attending a lot of conferences recently, and there's that dreaded networking word that people use, and I came across a couple of people who. I could see they were a little bit nervous about talking to somebody and they were sat on their own and I wanted to help them out and support them, but it'd be great to hear some of your tips on how could someone network in that situation where they are feeling a little bit overwhelmed.[00:23:22] Matt Abrahams: Right. So many of us feel overwhelmed in chit chat and small talk, and especially if you have a goal is a purposeful goal to connect and drive future interactions. So I have three things I'd like to share about this. And first and foremost, it's very normal and natural to be nervous in these circumstances.I had on my own podcast, Think Fast, Talk Smart a woman named Rachel Greenwald and Rachel's fascinating. She's a professional matchmaker and an academic, an interesting combination. And she shared something that, that is my new mantra for all small talk. And that is the goal is to be interested, not interesting.Many of us go into these situations feeling like we're playing at Wimbledon and we've got to ace every point we make. Every point we share with somebody has to just land and has to be really interesting. And that's not the best way to envision it. Rather, we should lead with curiosity. I don't know if where you are, here in the States we have a game we call Hacky Sack.It's a little beanbag ball that you pass back and forth with the goal being that it doesn't hit the ground. So the your challenge is to serve it to the next person in a way that it makes it easy for them to get back to you. So you're actually thinking the goal is to set the other person up for success.So being curious, asking questions, paraphrasing what you hear, that's the way to be successful in these circumstances. My mother in law has a black belt in small talk. She was amazing. She would fly from the Midwest of the United States to the West Coast where I live, and by the time she got off a plane, she would have five or six best friends.And here's how she did it. Three simple words. Tell me more. She would, as somebody was talking, she would just pause when they were done, say, tell me more, people would tell more, she'd learn more information, connect more. So, going into these situations, your goal is to be interested, not interesting. It's about the curiosity you bring.Number one. Number two. The best way to start these conversations is to highlight something that you have in common. Maybe it's something in the experience, in the moment. Maybe it's something you came from. These networking events and conferences also often follow keynote addresses or panel presentations.Comment on that. You want to avoid what I call the doom loop. And the doom loop is... Hi, how are you? Fine. How are you? Fine. Now we're no better and we're awkward. So start by highlighting something in the room. I was at an event once where I looked around and I turned to this person I didn't know and I said, did I miss the memo?Everybody's wearing something blue and the person looked around and said, you're right. And we had a great conversation that started off that way. And then the final thing is when we end, we need to end well. Many of us end these conversations by referring to biology. I've got to go to the bathroom. I'm hungry.I'm thirsty. You can get in trouble that way. I was conversing a while back with somebody and I needed to get out of the situation. I said, Oh, I need to use the restroom. And the guy said, Oh, no worries. Me too. And then the conversation kept going. We need to avoid these situations. So think about how you exit.A great way to exit is just to signal in advance that you want to exit. Finish the conversation and then say thank you so much and exit. So by giving that person advance notice that you're going to go over there and talk to people, it prepares both you and that other person to excuse yourself. So chit chat is challenging.There are things you can do to be helpful though.Wrapping Up and Final Thoughts[00:26:40] Paddy Dhanda: Oh, thank you so much, Matt. And talking about exiting well. I know we've run out of time. I just wanted to really just talk about a quick story. So how you and I got introduced was through small talk where I was speaking to Axelle, who's from Belgium. She's a founder of Drawify an awesome platform. And we just struck a conversation. We were having some small talk during the recording of that episode. And your name came up and I said, Oh, I'm such a huge fan of Matt's. And she said, Oh, I met Matt just the other week over in San Francisco. And and it all started from there. So the power of small talk has led us to this moment.And I think that just epitomizes for me, the power of it and the experience. And I just want to thank you for being such a great guest, Matt. I know you're a busy man, so, really appreciate you taking the time today and sharing your insights.[00:27:30] Matt Abrahams: The power of it, and I just want to thank you for being such a busy man, so I reallyappreciate you taking the time It's the end of another episode. Thank you so much for listening. Please do connect with me via LinkedIn and drop me a message. And let me know your favorite takeaways from the episode. Also, don't forget to subscribe to the superpower school newsletter so that you can be notified of all future episodes. Simply visit the website, www.superpowers.school. Thank you once again Get full access to Superpowers School at www.superpowers.school/subscribe

To celebrate Global Business Analysis Day (1st November), we rounded up 12 experts to create a complete guide on the Business Analysis profession. Each expert is a respected Business Analysis practitioner. Some are authors, public speakers, educators, coaches and above all, advocates of the Business Analysis profession.This episode is for you if you are curious about changing careers or simply if you want to deepen your knowledge about the role. We explore the following topics in this episode:* What do Business Analysts do?* The History of the BA role* Essential skills for BA’s* Popular BA techniques* How to become a BA* Training pathways and resources for BA’s* Future of the BA roleA huge thank you to all of the guests who dedicated their time and energy to help create this episode. If you found any of the insights useful and would like to explore these topics further, then please connect with the expert directly using their LinkedIn profiles below:Adrian ReedAngela WickBronia Anderson-KellyChristina LovelockFabricio LagunaGrant WrightJamie ToyneJared GoraiLinda ParkerNick de VoilSam MerrickVincent Mirabelli⚡️ In each episode, Paddy Dhanda deep dives into a new human Superpower and gives practical advice on how you can apply it immediately.👉 Sign-up to Newsletter: https://www.superpowers.school/subscribe👉 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/paddydhanda/★ BUY ME KO-FI ★If you enjoy the podcast, then you can donate a small amount here as a token of your appreciation: https://ko-fi.com/paddydhandaTranscription:[00:00:29] Paddy Dhanda: Dear friend it's a very special day today. Not only is it the day after Halloween? It's the birthday of Apple's CEO, Tim cook. So if you're listening to him, Many happy returns of the day. But no, that's not what I'm talking about. Today is global business analysis day. And we'll see thousands of business analysts across the world coming together to celebrate. And only personally have a long connection with this amazing profession. In a previous episode, I shared my journey of going from a professional introvert to a conversational addict. Well, the BA role was pivotal in helping me build the confidence to come out of my shell. And helping me harness my human skills. Over the years I've had the pleasure of meeting, amazing people in this profession. That have helped inspire me. But also we've given back so much to the community, through sharing their knowledge and insights. So I wanted to give back in my own small, but important way. And to put it out there.This has been the most challenging episode I've ever put together. I wasn't happy to interview just one, two or three guests. I wanted to go big or go home. So in this episode, I've managed to round up 12 of my favorite business analysis thought-leaders. And I use the word thought leader in its truest sense. Between them they probably have more knowledge about business analysis than ChatGPT's, grandparents. They are authors public speakers, educators, coaches and above all advocates of business analysis. Who are passionate about helping others?So in alphabetical order I am privileged to be joined by Adrian Reed, Angela Wick, Bronia Anderson-Kelly,. Christina Lovelock, Fabricio Laguna, Grant Wright, Jamie Toyne, Jared Gorai. Linda Parker. Nick de Voil. Sam Merrick and last but not least Vincent Mirabelli.So if you're thinking about a career change and curious to know if business analysis is the right career for you, then this episode is a must listen episode for you. And if you're already a business analyst, but want to know how can you take your career to the next level, then I'm confident you'll discover some golden nuggets of wisdom in this episode. But before we dive in to some of my burning questions. I thought I would test out our experts sense of humor and this is what they came up with.BA Jokes[00:03:31] Linda Parker: I'm pretty sure there must be a, how many BA's does it take to change a light bulb joke, but I don't know it. Obviously we'd need to do a requirements analysis to know that, and as you can tell, I'm not really known for my comedy.[00:03:46] Sam Merrick: a good project manager makes updates. A bad project manager makes updates. Yes, it is terrible. I know. Sorry. A BA walks into a bar. They spend the next 15 minutes wondering why someone would leave a metal bar in such a stupid place. They then repeat this five times just to make sure they understand the root cause. What do you call a delivery team without a business analyst? My response would be brave. So you can chuckle away at that one if you find it funny. So I thought I would go and have a look at chat G p Ta business analyst was asked what he does for a living. He replied, I turn confusion into clarity and problems into solutions. The person asked, so you're a magician.The business analyst replies, no, I'm a ba. We don't make things disappear. We just make them visible. It's okay.What is the role of a BA?[00:04:51] Paddy Dhanda: Okay. I don't think any standup comics need to be worried about their jobs. But one of the key traits of a good business analyst is being able to deal with uncomfortable situations. And possessing a sense of humor also helps to keep the team motivated during the tough times. So thank you experts for stepping up to the challenge and going beyond your comfort zone. On a serious note. I find there's often a misunderstanding about the key responsibilities of a BA. And the value that they can bring to a project. So what does a business analyst actually do?[00:05:31] Angela Wick: I really think it comes down to facilitating the process of problem solving or opportunities, right? So that includes things like making decisions that lead to process changes, system changes, product changes, and all those details we commonly refer to as requirements or discovery work.It's also facilitating the discovery of the impacts of that change. Who is it impacting and what does that mean to them and what are the impacts to the data, the tech, the people, the process, the policies, the rules.It's quite far reaching can go in so many directions, in so many different contexts.[00:06:06] Jared Gorai: I think if I look at the BABOK guide, you know it states that business analysis is the practice of enabling change in the enterprise by defining needs of recommending solutions that deliver value to the stakeholders.And I think business analysis always been about understand the needs of an organization, whether that's at a strategic, operational or project level, right?[00:06:28] Linda Parker: Another one I came across is this, A business analyst is a person who processes, interprets and documents business processes, products, services, and software through the analysis of data. This is okay, but only goes part of the way to describing what we do. What's important though are the key responsibilities and these wide and varied.For example, at a high level, we define strategy, set goals, develop target operating models, do benefit realization and business plans.[00:07:05] Sam Merrick: And as you kind of move down that, that scale from strategy into requirements and design, you're probably hitting the more traditional BA or maybe even service design type roles where you're thinking about, meeting those needs. I guess from a stakeholder point of view. And then you end up in that sort of deep solution mode at the other end of the scale, which has kind of got more of a systems focus.[00:07:26] Christina Lovelock: I often talk about bas being the conscience of a project or product to make sure that we're doing things right and doing the right thing.[00:07:34] Grant Wright: A good metaphor for business analysis is that of a doctor with the patient in our context being the business or the organization or a part of an organization that we're working with to solve their problems.A patient may report symptoms of their problems. They may even tell you what they think the solution is. I think I need to take this medicine. But the good doctor has to validate that they have to probe a little deeper, ask a few questions and confirm what the true needs or problems are that they're trying to solve.[00:08:12] Adrian Reed: I really think a lot of it is about the human side. It's about understanding stakeholders, understanding their perspectives, working with them often in quite challenging circumstances and utilizing that broad BA toolkit that I'm sure will we'll hear more about and come on to talk about during this podcast.History of the BA role[00:08:32] Paddy Dhanda: So, what I'm hearing is that the BA role is extremely diverse. They get involved in everything from discovery work, facilitating problem solving. Uh, working with stakeholders to elicit requirements.They can work at different levels, such as strategy, operational and project level. I also really like the metaphor of viewing the business analyst as a doctor diagnosing business problems and acting as the conscience of a project. Fabrizio, I'm intrigued to find out the history of the BA role and how it's evolved over the years.[00:09:11] Fabrício Laguna: In the first step of a software development, they have to define the needs of that software. And the definition of those needs is based on the specification of requirements. And they understood that specifying requirements is not an easy task. So they created this discipline called requirements engineering and requirements engineering had some processes as well and some default techniques you can use to elicit requirements, to analyze requirements, to specify requirements to validate, manage requirements.But as you can see, the need of understanding and looking for business has become so much greater than looking for how we develop software that. It ask it for a new discipline.That's how business analysis was born. And that's the way that business analysis is evolving, trying to bring better business outcomes, trying to understand all stakeholders connected to those business and what do they value and how can we give them the best value that they're looking for.[00:10:24] Nick de Voil: Some people will tell you that business analysis is a new profession that's only emerged in this century. That's not quite the case. I was certainly working with people called business analysts back in the 1980s, and at that time we also had people called systems analysts.Again, people might tell you these days that a systems analyst is someone who concerns themselves with the technical details of an IT system, but that wasn't necessarily the case back then. A systems analyst was someone who concerned themselves with systems in the broadest sense, but gradually the term business analyst became more and more widely used for those people, and it was given a massive boost in the by two things, really the establishment of the IIBA and the creation of BA BOK, the Business Analysis Body of Knowledge and the Creation in the UK of the BCS Certifications in BusinessAnalysis. And I think those two things together have brought about a real consensus on what the business analysis profession is.[00:11:35] Angela Wick: In the early two thousands,I I B A of course came on the scene, the Agile manifesto came on the scene. I really think it's those early two thousands where we just really seriously start to go, whoa, this is way bigger than a systems' analyst or someone analyzing one system. So the complexity keeps snowballing, right? And that just keeps happening more and more. And that's where this field is so amazing and so complex and continues to change, is that no longer can we look at it as I'manalyzing a single system or a system integrating with this system.There's just so much to analyze and that's where nobody today can be a subject matter expert and a business analyst, right? That would be a very difficult role to be in because nobody knows all the information. In the seventies, if you were supporting one system and one user group, you could know it all.You can't though. Today when we're talking business model changes and constant integrations and automatic updates, artificial intelligence, robotics, and all the capabilities of today. It just makes the idea that we need to have these elicitation and analysis techniques and this problem solving decision making mindset and the user mindset so much more important than it has ever been.Should BA's be technical or non-technical?[00:12:53] Paddy Dhanda: As Angela mentioned, we currently live in a technology led world. Things are moving at such a rapid pace and I can understand having someone on the team such as a business analyst who keeps up to date on new developments. To ensure that we've considered their impacts to inform our decision-making. So does that mean all BA's have to geek out on techie stuff and how important is it? That we build technical skills.[00:13:23] Linda Parker: Personally, I don't believe it matters whether you are technical or non-technical, or indeed, whether you are a business expert in a particular field. What drives your ability to be a great BA are the skills that mean people want to engage with you.Once again, it's back to your emotional intelligence or your abilities to empathize and build rapport. In essence, do you know how to talk to people, ask questions, and create and hold a space? Enabling people to feel comfortable enough to share information with you?[00:14:03] Bronia Anderson-Kelly:So I would say problem solving and communication skills and being organized are probably key things.And being able to kind of step back from the picture and really see things, see the context that we think, we call it helicopter view, to be able to see things from above. Being adaptable is really important. And it is useful to have domain knowledge and it, that doesn't mean the specific exact technology or the specific industry that you're in, but understanding the concepts of business and technology I think they're really key.This is a really interesting question because I think that the BA role is so broad, as I said before, that it can suit technical, non-technical people. It can suit people that are very analysis oriented. That are very creative. It can suit people that like detail, that don't like detail. It's so broad.Angela: I mean, I came into the role as no technical skills whatsoever. Like this might age me, but I really struggled to even save something on a floppy disk when I started out in business analysis.At the same time, what I was told when I joined the team was I asked such great questions that they loved that I didn't have all that technical knowledge, but as I grew in my career and I started learning the technical things, I also saw how that helped me. I learned ask SQL L really fast. I learned about technical architectures really fast and how code is structured and the whole software development life cycle.Those things absolutely have helped me in my career as well. So I think it's a balance, but I don't think you need one or the other to get started. I think both and the balance of both help you succeed in the field.You do need to be happy working with people and communicating with people, and you generally need to have a good grasp of detail. But apart from that, I don't think there's such a thing as an BA and it would be a bit sad if it was. The top three things that I personally look for and I think are invaluable.If you're wanting to start out in the profession. One of those is curiosity. So the first C is curiosity. And I think having that curious mindset is really. Difficult to teach or to learn. I don't think, it's not really a learn behavior as such. I think it's something that you either have or you don't have.And, you know, curiosity can be described in lots of different ways. It could be inquisitiveness, it could be nosy. But ultimately I think you know, curiosity is such an invaluable behavior that without it, it's very tough to excel in the world of business analysis.The second C is, you know, having a collaborative nature. And I think, you know, being able to get on with people we're often, you know, working with lots of different people in, you know, in, in a time that can be quite scary for some, you know, we were changing stuff in an organization, so when you're working with stakeholders or users I think being able to get on with people is really important.And I think also that's true as, you know, as you're working with more senior people in the organization too, being able to have that rapport and and find that common ground and network is key. And my third one is sometimes a controversial one and courage is. You know, really for me, what brings curiosity and collaboration together. Often as a business analyst, you have to be the one in the room who ask those DAF questions or that aren't really DAF questions, but can be perceived as DAF questions to bring it back something clearer and simpler.Creativity actually, I think is really key. I don't actually think there's any one set of, you know, previous jobs and previous skills. You find bas have come from all sorts of different backgrounds. I remember once speaking to someone who wanted to be a BA and they were working in a ticket office at a train station at the time.And you would think, well, what possible similarities are there with working at a ticket office? But they explained to me about how they'd worked on, what I would call process improvement opportunities, albeit at a local level. They had that improvement mindset. They talked about how they'd resolved different conflicts with customers.So actually, I think it's very much about that curiosity, that analytical and analysis mindset and carrying those transferable skills forward. I don't think there's any single, like in inverted commas, best type of person for business analysis. In fact, I think one of the great things about the BA community is how diverse we really all are. And I think that diversity is something that is, is worth a huge amount to our community. I know excellent bas who have done all sorts of things, including being a town planner, a paramedic, and a PhD chemist.We're starting to welcome new generation of bas through apprenticeships and other entry level roles who have only ever been a ba And I'm interested to see how that influences the profession going forward. I don't know that there is a type of person suitable for becoming a business analysis professional. I think everyone does business analysis, but those that do it professionally embrace a particular mindset. They question and analyze situations to understand and drive change.It's about continually asking why as well, and why not to enable better business outcomes.Role of the BA in Agile[00:19:33] Paddy Dhanda: I remember working in an organization previously, and the leaders decided everyone who wasn't in a dedicated agile role would be rebranded as engineers including business analysts.I've also heard people say there is no role for a business analyst in an agile team. So what's your thinking around this and that's to Jamie.[00:19:58] Jamie Toyne: I'll start off by saying is that if I had a quid had won the British Pound for every time I'd heard that bas don't exist in Agile because they don't appear on the scrum list of roles, I'll probably be sitting somewhere much warmer than just outside Sheffield right now.And I think just to quickly hone in onto the, that scrum list of roles that, particularly those quite new to Agile seem to focus and talk about a lot, is that actually many of the roles that exist in an agile multidisciplinary team aren't mentioned on that list. User researchers aren't called out.Content designers aren't mentioned. Service designers, business architects, interaction designers, all those roles, which. Many of us work with day in, day out, don't exist according to Scrum. And of course those roles are hugely important to success of any digital delivery, any agile delivery in the same way that business analysts are.[00:20:54] Bronia Anderson-Kelly: Yeah, so I think similar themes really to a ba in a non-ag agile world.I think that the skills are transferrable between the different development environments. So things like ensuring and understanding business needs and the requirements they transfer across both. And you've got to bring them into play in a, in an agile world too. And things like supporting the solution design to make sure that they meet those needs.But we just have to in an agile world, we just have to have an eye there on incremental delivery. And the continuous improvement aspect that you get within Agile I firmly believe that bas deliver their value within the framework of an org organization. No matter how that organization prefers to work and develop, you know, deliver their software.[00:21:38] Adrian Reed: So BA's an agile, oh, am I gonna open that? Hornet's nest. Oh, go on then. I always remember a, a friend of mine and Paddy, I'm sure a friend of yours Paul Turner who's you know, always got insightful things to say. I remember him saying once, do you know what, you might not need a business analyst on an Agile project, but you do need business analysis.And I'm firmly of the view that's true. I don't care what the person's job title is. You absolutely need business analysis. And if you think about you know, like. Scrum as an example, there ought to be some kind of product vision, right? So actually even before you've got to the point of saying, we're gonna do this in an agile way, someone's gotta have like understood the problems and opportunities.That's strategic analysis, right? That is a form of business analysis. It's a form that pre-project or pre-product problem analysis is analysis that isn't always done very well, right? And you and I know this and that's a whole area where we can add value. It's like, well actually, you know, if we actually know where we are going, then maybe we'll get there a little bit quicker.I remember someone saying, you know, requirements are not a documentation problem. They are a communication problem. And it's about creating shared understanding. And sometimes it's about challenging and making sure we go right back to that strategic view and say, okay, yeah, at this micro level does it connect up?Are we in the right direction? Has something changed?[00:23:12] Grant Wright: Fundamentally the BA role is still there to support and add value. Now, some may argue that's a product owner's role in Agile, I think. It, depending on your setup, BAS can step up into that product in the role. They can almost be part of a product team where they support the product owner and help refine and elaborate user stories to get them ready for sprints.Bas can add value during the sprints to clarify acceptance criteria in a three amigos conversation with the Devon test teams, and they can help with that kind of transition of the ready stories into the business by explaining what functionality has been drip fed through to help with business readiness and acceptance.[00:23:56] Christina Lovelock: One of the principles of the Agile manifesto states that the best architectures, requirements and designs emerge from self organizing teams. There's so much emphasis placed on the last part of that principle, the concept of self organizing teams that a lot of organizations have forgotten that they be, should be striving for the best architectures, requirements and designs to inform those teams.User stories are not really analysis, and if that's all that bas are being asked to do on a project, that's a fraction of what they're capable of and it's unlikely that those teams are achieving the best results.[00:24:30] Jared Gorai: Organizations are now bringing back the business analysis skillset cuz they understand that business analysis must happen on a project and that the title of the practitioner doesn't really matter.Many business analysis professionals have become product owners where they take on a leadership role within an agile team, while other teams have found the need to add business analysis professionals to their project teams. Success begins with business analysis.Steps to how you can become a BA[00:24:54] Paddy Dhanda: Thank you experts. I'm glad we cleared that one up and I hope we've closed that question once and for all. And if you have anyone in your organization telling you otherwise, then please send them a polite email, informing them. They may want to reconsider their thinking. And share this episode. Now, if you've enjoyed what you've heard so far about the role and feel you'd like to make the move to becoming a business analyst then where should you start? So experts. What two or three steps can someone take to starting a career in business analysis?[00:25:32] Fabrício Laguna: If you are interested in becoming a ba, I invite you to join the business analysis community. There are a lot of people talking about business analysis, sharing their experience, showing how they are doing business analysis, teaching how to do business analysis using different techniques and concepts. Go for conference. Try to see everything you can find. There's a lot of good podcasts, YouTube channels and courses online. There's a lot of good content around you can find the best thing for you, but try to be close to this community. Try to share their mindset and make that mindset part of you.[00:26:19] Jared Gorai: as Director of Chapters and Member Engagement IIBA, I think one of the first steps would be to join IIBA and your local chapter.Download your copy of the BABOK Guide and learn the techniques and jargon contained within it. Then I'd suggest that you attend business analysis events and meet other practitioners. Foster the business analysis mindset and seek ways in which you can affect change. Be curious, ask questions and really jump into the profession with both feet.Cuz if you don't immerse yourself in the profession, you'll miss out on much of what it has to offer.[00:26:49] Jamie Toyne: I think my main bit of advice would be if you can try and find a structured way to learn and grow something that allows you to build your knowledge. Then supports you to find opportunities to test out your new knowledge, your new tools and techniques in applying it in a practical sense.And alongside that, equally as importantly is it allows you to build your confidence. And for me, you know, skills are confidence and knowledge applied in a real world setting. So that's your, where is elevate something that's theoretical and gain that experience firsthand.[00:27:22] Christina Lovelock: In every role there is the opportunity to apply business analysis skills, whether that's approaching a problem, logically seeking different viewpoints and perspectives, or improving processes.Someone who wants to become a BA needs to look at some of the common criteria on BA job descriptions and see how they can find ways to demonstrate and gain those skills and experience from the job that they're currently doing. I've seen teaching assistance and window cleaners move into a business analyst role by demonstrating a curious and analytical mindset.And I personally gained so many of my skills relevant to business analysis when I was stacking shelves in st including customer relationships and looking for business efficiencies.[00:28:03] Adrian Reed: You've got the bcs, the Chartered Institute for It, which has a, although that's IT based, and business analysis is broader, of course but it has a broad business analysis diploma program. Engage with the meetups and the many good online communities that are out there. Such as you know, you are listening to this this podcast now you might want to look at websites like BA times. I, you know, I'm biased in saying this, but Ba Digest as well, the quarterly free magazine is a good thing to look into, connect with others.[00:28:34] Linda Parker: If you are a new to being a ba, I think it's useful to follow a BA pathway and for organizations to set one up so their bas know how the role might progress from trainee or junior all the way to senior ba.A pathway provides a framework for BAS to follow, focusing their learning so there is an understanding of what skills should be known at what stage in their career. The key thing is to have a route to follow, but also don't allow it to constrain your training as a BA with so much learning available.What training courses would you recommend?[00:29:11] Paddy Dhanda: Some fantastic advice from our experts there and I absolutely agree with everything they've shared. There's just something really special about the BA community. There's a real sense of wanting to help each other. We can see this firsthand, even on this episode where every one of our experts has been so forthcoming in sharing their top tips. Now the BA role requires us to develop a whole host of new skills. And apply a bunch of different analysis techniques. So, where do you start when considering business analysis training? Over to you, Sam, let's hear some of your thinking on this.[00:29:53] Sam Merrick: My mind is completely clear on this question, so I think there's two pathways that you should be looking at.There's the IIBA E C B A, the entry certificate for business analysis course pathway. I mean, courses are about the BABOK and trying to understand the kind of conceptual view of what business analysis is and how that hangs together from the IIBA's point of view. That's really good cause there's a bunch of techniques, different knowledge areas to consider.Lots of different tasks you may or may not do as a BA in different contexts. So that's a great way if you like, reading and building a kind of conceptual model in your mind. If you're looking for something a bit more accessible, then I would say take a look at the BCS courses. You know, provides a process for business analysis, which I think is, you know, really easy to digest and a good set of techniques in order to get you going.So yeah, look at both of those things. I think it depends on the kind of learner you are, kind of mind that you've got, whether you're more logical or more more kind of flexible. So yeah, take a look at those. I think that's the best way.[00:30:54] Christina Lovelock:I'm a big advocate for professional certification, for business analysis, and in fact, all roles in tech and digital. In my experience, professional qualifications improve the confidence and competence of business analysts, and they improve the consistency of business analysis across an organization.So I think it's so valuable. I also have to do a plug here for the level four apprenticeship standard in business analysis, which is a great route for people to be really well supported, to become a ba and there is no age limit on apprenticeships. Anyone can do one, and there's also funding available in the UK for employers to support this.[00:31:29] Fabrício Laguna: If you are looking for a content in business analysis, I invite you to subscribe to the Brazilian BA YouTube channel. There is a lot of good videos, small videos with concepts related to business analysis there, and also some good interviews with business analysis experts from all around the world.[00:31:51] Angela Wick: I would recommend for someone starting out the LinkedIn Microsoft certification to start, and that's a LinkedIn learning Microsoft collaboration. You can find it on opportunity.linkedin.com. It's a free learning path to start that journey. I would also recommend BACubed.com. I am the host of BACubed.com where our motto is we empower the best and modern business analysis of tomorrow and help bas thrive.So if you're new to business analysis, it's a great place to learn more from others, from experts. It's on demand courses, it's live events, it's cohort learning, there's templates, everything you would need to really thrive in a thriving community to get support from as well.[00:32:35] Grant Wright: So I'm a little torn on this one because I don't have any formal BA qualifications. I haven't done my BCS exams. I haven't done my IIBA exams and it's never really helped me back in being able to get work in the BA space.But I guess what I did have was I had some formal training early on in use cases in U M L that gave me a good foundation. And I've always just researched and read up myself about different BA techniques. But I do absolutely recognize that, you know, that some bas really benefit from the more structured learning that some of those courses offer.I was working on an interim basis one of my clients heading up their BA function, and we actively encouraged the BAS at that organization to take their BCS diplomas in business analysis. And the people that did those exams, you know, they really got value from them. Likewise, I know a few people who've done their C B A P through the I B A and again, that they've found that really valuable.So I think there is value in doing those courses. But I personally have managed fine without them. What I have done is I've invested in training that I think allows me to grow above and beyond the basics of business analysis. So I did do some product ownership training, some user experience design training.I've done a lot of work in the last few years on visual thinking as a skill that I think can really amplify and enhance the BA skillset. So I'd recommend also looking at those kind of those kind of softer supporting skills as well as just the core ba kind of, discipline and the courses that go with that.Favourite BA Techniques[00:34:44] Paddy Dhanda: Thanks Grant. Now something that BAS love to talk about is techniques. So I'm keen to hear from our experts, what some of their favorite. Business analysis techniques are. Bronia what have you got for us?[00:34:58] Bronia Anderson-Kelly: A lot of people hate rich pictures. I suppose with your visual thinking skills though, Paddy, I'm sure you'll probably be aligned more with me because I love them.I understand why people don't like them because they're not formal. They've got virtually no rules to help you produce them. And to a BA professional they can be seen as a bit juvenile, but I think they're really powerful. As an example many years ago I worked on a listing requirements to improve a payments process I could process in.I met with the stakeholders, but then I produced a rich picture afterwards to explain all the complex things that happened kind of in their process. Sort of like a fun flow diagram. And guess what? I got confirmation back from them within minutes to confirm that it was correct. Why? Because they're engaging and because they're easy to interpret.[00:35:52] Sam Merrick: So Rich Pitch is absolutely, is one of my favorites. But then the other favorite that I've got weirdly is data flow diagrams.I think that's because for me, processes. And if we're making a change that's significant enough to affect the operating model, you're gonna start looking at process. And the data flow diagram is very much a process model. So you draw out your processes, but you consider the data flow and the data storage within that.And I think that allows us to be able to think a bit more about what the requirements are of the information that's within that system. And broadly speaking, we bas are involved in information systems projects. So for me, yeah, data flow diagrams helps to kind of logically think about information and process together as well as people who are obviously, you know, making, you know, a lot of cases, making the information, man managing the information and the technology as well.[00:36:43] Grant Wright: So I highly recommend learning about visual thinking and how to apply visual thinking to express yourself using rich pictures. And the other one was story mapping. If you're working in an agile way, and for me, even if you're not working in an agile way, I just like the way that story mapping allows you to externalize your thoughts, again, in quite a visual way.And you can use online tools as well as physical post-it notes to make sense of the scope of something, and choose. Which high level activities you want to expand upon and when. So that allows you to then start thinking about planning in a more agile way. I just think it's such a powerful technique and I'd highly recommend people having a look at Jeff Patton's book and user story mapping if they wanna find out more about that.[00:37:34] Angela Wick: Only one or two techniques, that's just not fair. There's so many more goodness. I would've to say, okay, I'm gonna name 3. They're all visual models. I swear I use them nonstop with clients and projects. And it always creates light bulb moments for everybody. Number one, a scope or context diagram.Make it from a user perspective. Number two, a state diagram or state transition diagram. Number three, decision tables. Those are my three favorite visual models to really get at so many details that go unstated finds so many requirements that folks are just not thinking about and really gets the right conversations going.[00:38:14] Linda Parker: I'm old school, so I still love a process model. If I'm stuck, I'll sketch one out or search for an existing process. This helps me understand the business area I'm trying to deal with. It may not be very detailed at the start, but it helps to focus my mind and is a good way of introducing myself to the business area.[00:38:36] Fabrício Laguna: Concept modeling is a technique where you can define a business vocabulary using a diagram that connects nouns through verbs.So you may have two nouns connected by a verb, and that defines an expression that you can use in your process development, in your requirements, specifications in your business rules, specifications, or even just to talk about your business. And besides the diagram, you also have a glossary where you define the meaning or the definition of every long term.So concept models can help your organization to have a well structured and clear vocabulary to talk about business.[00:39:25] Nick de Voil: The thing that I absolutely love is workshops. I love doing workshops. So when I'm working as a consultant with customers I try to have a workshop as early as possible in the process. Get as many stakeholders as possible together in one room and start working things through together.And the level of energy that you can get going in a workshop is such fun. It really is. It's like the air that I breathe when I'm doing a project that the energy that you get in workshops, there's lots and lots of other techniques I suppose, you know, some of the more technical detailed techniques.I suppose the one that I've used more than anything else over the years is data modeling. And it sounds like rather an arcane idea. Data modeling sounds rather technical, but the great thing about it is you can apply it at many different levels. So yes, you can create a data model to describe a database that needs to be built, but you can also create a data model using the same ideas to explore what are the information needs of people in the organization and what are the things in their business, in their world, if you like that are important to them.[00:40:46] Jared Gorai: Describe one or two of my favorite techniques. The guide has 50 techniques in it, and I remember being in a conference a number of years ago and they were the speaker was saying that, you know, of the 50 techniques, the typical business analysis professional uses maybe eight or nine of them and then challenged us to increase that.Grab one more technique that you've never used before. So of the 50 techniques I do have a couple of favorites. Brainstorming is one of them. I love getting into a group of individuals and we would talk about, you know, here's the problem, how can we solve it? And just throw out ideas.There are some amazing stories. I remember hearing one story in, well, the northeast part of the United States, where they were having problems with ice accumulating on transmission wires. And what they did is they had a brainstorming session for like, how do we get this ice off?And at one point someone said, well, hold on a second. What if we got bears to climb the poles and, you know, the action of them climbing the poles, they would knock the ice off the lines. Well, believe it or not, that brainstorming actually worked because the way it worked is, well, okay, but how do you get the honey on top of the poles?So the bear wants to climb it. I'll use a helicopter to, to put these pots of honey on the poles. Well, they soon found out that the rotors of the helicopter would actually come shake the ice off the lines. So it's one of my favorite stories and obviously one of my favorite techniques as well.[00:42:17] Christina Lovelock: So I have been known to create a force field analysis or a decision tree to help me with a decision I'm trying to make.A force field analysis allows you to think about and visualize the opposing forces acting on a decision or a change, and you can quantify the different forces and think about how different aspects can be addressed or overcome.[00:42:35] Jamie Toyne: Capability mapping. So, you know, dare say venting more into the world of business architecture in some ways.But understanding how an organization is made up, the, you know, the capabilities, the components of what an organization does is something I just find really, you know, essential to do when I'm working with any new organization. Whether that be for the first time, one I'm coming back to and I'm less familiar with it.So I think that's such an important technique to able to, I think it's one which can be helpful, particularly as you grow in the career business analysis and start working maybe more in strategic sphere. It's hugely helpful.[00:43:12] Vincent Mirabelli: Okay, so this is one I always answer whenever I see these polls what's your favorite BA technique?My answer is always coffee. And everyone goes, ha. Because, you know, maybe they think it's because of the caffeine or whatever. No, coffee is a great way to get to know your stakeholders, get to know their needs, get to know what their stakeholder requirements are, not just what the business requirements are to help get to know them as an individual, which then helps to build trust and buy in from your stakeholders.So coffee is a great technique. If you want something, you know, more formal, I'm a big fan of those enterprise techniques. So SWOT is a great. Technique for understanding the strengths and weaknesses and opportunities and threats of any given option or solution. I'm a big fan of PESTLE, which is very broad in the enterprise or strategy analysis space.So pests a great tool for understanding, you know, the lay of the land from political and economic and legal and technological, and I'm gonna run through the whole acronym, but, you know, it's a great way to understand what's going on in the market and what's going on out in the world.So, those are my favorite too. But number one is always coffee.[00:44:32] Paddy Dhanda: Okay, so you've heard it here. If you want to be an awesome BA then you have to fall in love with coffee. Let's now look at the future with all of the advances in AI it's probably left many of us are a little uncertain about the future of work. And what all of this means specifically for the BA role. Linda. Can you tell us more?Future of the BA role[00:44:57] Linda Parker: I think the need and importance of the BA role is stronger than ever. Currently, there is a mix of organizations working in different ways, some more traditional approaches like Waterfall and some more agile techniques. These organizations really need bas, and as a contractor, I see firsthand the drive for more business analysis.However, this ever increasing demand is outstripping availability, and so the market is in danger of being flooded with under-skilled bas. If you are a ba, be a skilled ba. Embrace learning and not just traditional business analysis ideas and techniques. Work with and learn from your closest allies like UXs, product owners, content writers.Anyone that is really close or on the fringes of what we do similarly, develop your people and communication skills. You will then be worth your weight in gold. Additionally, keep in mind future technologies and ensure you remain current. Do not shy away from topics like cybersecurity, analytics or AI to name just a few.Just because they seem more technical or edgy. These areas will still need requirements. There will still be users who the organization needs to understand.[00:46:26] Fabrício Laguna: I see the role of the business analyst is growing far more away from the original. It. Perspective or software projects where it was first born.I see business analysis being using for very different kind of professionals. Recently, I B A just closed the a partnership with human Resource Association explaining how human resources analysts can use business analysis, or in other words, how can they also be business analysts trying to understand the needs of an organization in the aspect of a human resources and defining solution for those needs.A solution in a human resource perspective could be a training or hiring a new employee or defining a career path. You can have different kinds of solution, but what we are doing when we are analyzing these kind of needs is business analysis. So business analysis as a role is becoming more and more useful for different kinds of professionals.That's why I argue that we should look for business analysis more. As a mindset than a role.[00:47:51] Vincent Mirabelli: I always credit Jared Garry from IIBA he's got this great line around, you know, we're not business analysts, we're business analysis professionals and everybody, when you're in business, you are a business analyst or you are a business analysis professional. So I don't think that part of it is going away.What I think is really interesting I for bas as we, you know, navigate towards the future is, you know, how are we going to adjust to things like chat, G P T? And if you haven't played with that yet it's a fantastic. AI tool how are we going to benefit from it? Let's not be afraid of it, but how are we gonna benefit from it?Can we use it or can we leverage AI and bots to do a lot of the mundane work? Now that being said, now that I'm saying this, what does mundane mean? So I think of someone like, you know, Jamie Champaign who seems to, and I don't know how love writing, validating and building traceability into her requirements.Loves it. I don't and maybe that's why she and I get along so well, cuz we're like opposite ends of the BA spectrum. But you know, what is mundane? What is the work that you don't wanna do and that somebody else wants to do? So I think, you know, we're gonna have to find a way to integrate AI and technology's gonna continue to evolve.[00:49:22] Sam Merrick: I think that there's a, an awful lot of bas that have been moving, I guess into more sort of strategic roles. So I think that's probably a step towards kind of a more business focus, more broader context, more strategy oriented type, business analysis role. I don't necessarily wanna say business architecture cause that implies that you are inputting a framework in to to manage the value streams of the organization.But I think that having wider touchpoints as a BA and having probably more scope of change, I think is a good thing. It enables the organization to think more holistically.[00:50:03] Bronia Anderson-Kelly: I think there'll always be a need for BA skills for, you know, helping organizations in that way. You know, as long as organizations exist, then there's gonna be the need for that skillset.I think with the advent of ai and more in data analysis, I think we, we'll find BA roles getting involved in those sorts of things. You know, ai, data analysis, process automation UX design. And then there'll be certain technologies within specific domains say that a BA might specialize in.And I think we'll probably see that you know, over the next 10 plus years is just a further breakdown of the BA role into further roles. And we'll just get more specialists. There'll still probably be generalist bas, but I think we'll find a lot more roles that are requesting kind of specialist knowledge and skills.[00:50:58] Jamie Toyne: In short, I'm really excited. I think there's never been more of a need for a BA mindset and the wider business toolkit that we can bring to organizations, to, for our customers, for our users. And I think that's so many reasons that the world has never been more complicated, whether that be in the world of tech and data, whether that be the implications of tech and data in, in terms of ethics and also whether that be around Changing expectations and increased expectations from our users and from our from our customers.So I think business analysis brings a huge amount to the table in trying to break down that complexity and trying to have clarity and conciseness of where we need to get to, you know, whether that be an organizational level or delivery team level. But I think there's also a couple of things we need to focus on within the profession to ensure we're best placed and seen as a go-to point of contact to, with some of stuff.Those is thing do and ways more obvious in that we need to keep up to date. We need to evolve as a profession in terms of being aware of you know, the tech and the wider tech landscape that sits around. Everything we do, whether we're in that particular space at the moment is individuals or not.And obviously what that means and like say from an ethics perspective and other perspectives too. And we also need to be aware of what other professions exist. Obviously for those who've been business analysis for more than 10 years, the professions you work on a day to day level will have likely changed, probably likely more digital tech professions that exist today.There never has been. So we need to be clear on how we work with those other professions. How do we get most from them with what we're doing, but likewise, how can they get most from what we do and how we work? And additionally I think the other big thing is we need to be, and this is probably the harder thing, but we need to get our BA brand to be clearer.We need to make sure it's more engaging. And I think there's a lot we need to do in that space. Cause other professions being really honest, seems to do a much better job of it. You used to look at you know, the UX professions and product professions, they have a much clearer and a much more engaging brand.For what they do. And that's not be said. There aren't brilliant things that individuals are doing. Already I think Paddy podcast here in terms of the, is brilliant towards, across community level, across profession level.[00:53:31] Angela Wick: I think the future of the BA role is going to be leaning more and more towards collaboration, how bas facilitate information exchanges among others, how they facilitate decision making, how they facilitate problem solving, structured conversations collaboration, and just really guiding a group through the process of making sure that everything is taken care of.You know, old school way of doing this is creating a bunch of really sick, big documents. But more and more the trend and the future that I see is that we're gonna be writing and documenting far less and facilitating meaningful conversations to get the decision making process on track to get the problem solving process on track, and to do that at the speed of light.[00:54:18] Adrian Reed: So I really see business analysis as being an area where there's real opportunities and, you know, I see bas getting involved much earlier in the business change life cycle in the product development, life cycle.And I think that area to the left of the sort of conventional area where, you know, requirements analysis starts, that's an area where we can really move the needle because, those early interventions where a quick question like, you know, why are we doing this? Are we still on the same page here?They can save hundreds and hundreds of days of scope creep further downstream. I mean, and maybe I'm being dramatic here, but you know how much I believe in this kind of stuff and so I think there are huge opportunities. Teams are definitely pushing into that direction. And I think it, it really is about being that, a phrase we've probably heard from time to time that trusted advisor to the business and really helping to adapt organizations.If organizations want agility, then they need people who can be there to help work with those relevant stakeholders to help see the opportunities to help work out how the internal plumbing works so that change can be made in a really expedient fashion. So I think when you look outwardly, when you've got organizations wanting to adapt, when you've got a possibly a, you know, a tough physical and financial environment changes happening, then we are exactly the types of folks that people will need.[00:55:58] Nick de Voil: Things do change. Nothing stays the same forever. And there are lots of job titles around now that didn't exist 30 years ago, and job titles that exist now won't exist in 30 years time. So we can see already that there are people doing business analysis on projects who don't necessarily have the job title business analyst.They might be I called a product owner or all sorts of other things. I think in the long run that will happen to business analysis. There won't be people called business analysts. One day they'll be called something else. And I think, you know, there's a constant process of professions changing their boundaries, splitting, merging with each other and so on.One thing that I'm particularly interested in is user research. And user research has a massive overlap with business analysis and also business architecture is another closely related discipline to business analysis. And I think maybe in the future there will be enterprise designers and enterprise designers will be people who combine skills in all those different disciplines.[00:57:10] Grant Wright: I think if you look at where business analysis goes in the future, the obvious thing is the technology, isn't it? It's the introduction of cyber, of robotics, of artificial intelligence and how those things fundamentally change the world around us and the art of what's possible, you know, that will impact what bas do.So I think bas have to keep in touch with that. I know the bas have to be a technical role, but I do think it has to be a technically aware role. I don't know many projects that where you are using business analysis and technology and those emerging technologies don't have some bearing on that work.So I think those are the obvious things. I think the other things that, that they're not new trends, but the application of business analysis is a skillset outside of the BA role is something I see the community talking about and I agree whether that's expanded into business architecture, service design strategy analysis all of those.Sort of roles can benefit from good business analysis skills and as a profession, I think that's where bas can kind of grow and see their longer term career path. So I definitely think there's a need to keep that conversation going, but probably the biggest thing for me that, that has to improve is the ability for BAS to engage and communicate with their stakeholders.There's so many bas I've worked with over the years who are comfortable sitting at their desk doing some modeling, right in a spec, but they're really uncomfortable at getting people in a room, having an engaging conversation, surfacing ideas, leveraging the wisdom of the people in the, and the diversity in the room.And I think that's a missed opportunity. And I think a lot of that is just about confidence, about creative confidence or a lack of IT in the BA community. So it's something that I'm passionate about and I really think that we need to take seriously as things do evolve and as technology continues to evolve, our ability to leverage those human skills and to be able to create a human connection and more important than ever,[00:59:31] Christina Lovelock: I am excited to see where business analysis goes next. I think it has much more of a role to play in setting strategy and strategic decision making. I hope we're gonna see more bas working at an organizational level rather than a project or product level. And I think that organizations can access this expertise when they have a well-structured BA practice, which is identified and articulated what services it offers to the organization.So that's what's gonna help our colleagues and senior leaders really see what bas have to offer.[01:00:01] Jared Gorai: This is one of my favorite questions. The future of the BA rule. The sky's the limit. It's interesting. You look at the US Bureau of Labor and Statistics says that there's going to be another 800,000 new business analysis jobs in the next five years. And that's in the US alone. The world around us needs more business analysis practitioners.And I think, you know, the future is very bright for business analysis. Look at LinkedIn says, you know, of the top 10 skills that people are looking for business analysis. I think this sits at number six and you look at some of the other ones. Yeah, that's business analysis.Well, when you look at, you know, cloud computing and analytics and data management, whatnot, that's part of business analysis as well. So the future of the behavioral is incredibly vast and, and it's the world's our oyster. the future looks very bright.Resources for BA's[01:00:52] Paddy Dhanda: Thanks, Jared. I just love your optimism and it gives us great hope for the future. Now if you're a regular listener of the podcast, then you'll know I always ask my guests to share their favorite resources to help you continue on your learning journey. So I put this same question to the experts. Fabrizio tell us what are some of your favorite resources[01:01:17] Fabrício Laguna: I have been participating in some different conferences around the world and they're amazing places to learn business analysis, to connect with other business analysts and to share knowledge. So building business capability in US is probably a great conference. The biggest I know held by IIBA is the official conference of the International Institute of Business Analysis that happens once a year pm BA conference in North America, Canada, and United States is also a great conference that talks about business analysis.We have BA and Beyond in Belgium and the Netherlands, which is a great conference we have in South Africa. The I B A chap in South Africa making the BA Summit a very good conference in business analysis. I know they have a very good conference in business analysis in Australia. We have here in Brazil, the BA Brazil conference.So all chapters around the globe are doing great business analysis conference. I do have my own YouTube channel, the Brazilian BA on YouTube, and there's a lot of content there that I bet would be useful for you too.[01:02:41] Sam Merrick: I iba uk.org. I'm going to say that, aren't I? No. There, look, there's loads of stuff on there. So there's load of past events. So if you've not been a member or a pass holder before and you wanna view some of the past events, then either sign up to the IBA as a global organization or head along to iba uk.org and purchase an event pass you can book on for new events, upcoming events.But you can also view the event archives as well. And we've had a lot of them over the past couple of years, given we've had covid and a lot of the events have been virtual. So that's an absolutely fantastic resource to look at. It's very relevant to bas and BAS in the UK as well. So if you're based in the uk, you know, for me, then great.If you are, you know, a bit more worldwide, then perhaps your local chapter's got more relevant content as well. But no, IIBA chapters are a fantastic resource to use.[01:03:31] Linda Parker: Well, as I run the BA Life conference, of course I'm going to start there. Seriously, as you said yourself, Paddy conferences are a great starting point for learning.I also love a good book because I can make notes in it. One of my go-to books is the fourth edition of a book called Business Analysis. There are also many great podcasts like yours and one called BA Brew, both of which I listen to quite often. Similarly, there are online meetups and training sessions.And again, I would be very remiss if I didn't suggest any BA would do well to attend BA Life, the BA Festival in A Day . And you don't need to go anywhere for this because it's all online. For more details, check out www.ba life.code.uk.[01:04:30] Angela Wick: Resources for bas, I would say, gosh, I would say connect with me on LinkedIn.I am posting resources all the time, posting content as well. So I'm Angelo Wick. It's Angelo Wick, C bap, I think it is on LinkedIn. You'll find me. And yeah, I mean there's just a great community on LinkedIn and folks that are posting all sorts of resources, getting great conversations, going, posting videos, et cetera.[01:04:52] Adrian Reed: There's the b c s book, business Analysis and Business Analysis Techniques, which is more of a kind of toolkit type approach. And if you want a little bit of info in the the BA career, then doing a little plug for myself I wrote a book called Business Analyst by bcs, which is nowhere near as good as the other books.But hey, you know, you might wanna humor me and buy a copy and also check out all of the good blogs and online content as well. That's definitely worth doing.[01:05:19] Nick de Voil: So I'm personally more of a book person than a podcast person. I've got literally hundreds of books about business analysis and related related areas.There are actually a lot of good books by BBCs. So it's worth knowing that if you are a member of bcs, there's something called the BCS Library, which is an online resource that allows you access to all BCS's books. So you can read about, you know, agile user experience. You know, product management business architecture, all sorts of related areas as part of that.So that's something worth considering. Another great book is Business Analysis and Leadership Edited by Penny Poland and James Archer. I would say that because I wrote one of the chapters in it the iib b's business Analysis Body of Knowledge Guide is quite dry. But it is a very good collection of and quite well structured collection of ideas about how to do business analysis.And also, finally, one other book I would mention is that there's a new edition coming out at some point of mastering the requirements process by Suzanne and James Robertson which is, I think the current edition is the third edition, but I believe there's a fourth edition coming out quite soon.So that's worth looking out for[01:06:51] Jamie Toyne: I personally like, analyst corner medium com. I also do some writing blogging for that too.And I also really like the Be a Digest publication that Adrian re pulls together. All are fantastic. You know, fantastic places to find out new information, to find out different perspectives and angles on things from experienced practitioners around the globe in, in both of those.[01:07:14] Grant Wright: In terms of books, o one that sticks out and I remember is a book called Discover to Deliver agile Product Panel Analysis by Ellen Gut and Mary Gorman. And that's just a really good book on how to apply business analysis techniques in an agile context and one that I just find myself going back to again and again.So I think lots of stuff for bas. I would also recommend looking into the world of visual thinking. That's something that I'm passionate about. And there's lots of good authors there and if you wanna find out more about visual thinking, come along to the visual jam.com and being carry on the conversation there.[01:07:51] Vincent Mirabelli: If you're looking for podcasts Dave Sabo has a great one called Mastering Business Analysis. I will throw in a, you know, couple of my own. I also have a podcast called Business Not as Usual. If you're not sure which one it is, cuz there's a few that have the same name.Look for the pineapple the Pineapple with Sunglasses Business, not as usual. I do that with my, my buddy and former colleague Mike Martino. Good dude. So in terms of books there's a lot I know Jamie Champaign has written one on mastering business analysis. Jamie and I also have a a community that we're trying to build called the Modern Business Analyst.You can get more information about that at at my website, vincent marielli.com. There's no lack of education and knowledge out there. And I'll throw out one another. I'm gonna use this as an opportunity to plug myself. You know, I've got, I've just actually just yesterday come back from recording my fifth course on the LinkedIn learning platform. A few are related to, you know, my Lean Six Sigma world in, you know, change management and in Lean Six Sigma and building a culture of continuous improvement. Although I would argue that one probably is applicable to everybody and not just the Six Sigma folks.But my first course ever was called Business Analysis Foundations Enterprise. It's all about enterprise analysis. And then I did a follow up in my third course called Essential Techniques in Enterprise Analysis, where we talk about, you know, SWOT and PESTLE and the Three Horizons technique and Porter's Five Forces. The field, the industry the people that are in it. Are so, open to sharing their perspectives and their knowledge, and I think that's amazing.[01:09:42] Christina Lovelock: I would direct people towards the BA Times, a free online magazine and BA Digest, also free and is released quarterly.There are loads of resources on the BA Hub created by Black Metric.[01:09:54] Jared Gorai: Representing i b as I do, the resources that I'm gonna recommend are definitely I bs focused.We do have an i b A podcast. We do a minimum of two webinars every month for our members. And then we do periodic public webinars as well. And of course, the big conference in North America building business capability.We have 115 chapters currently around the world that have professional development days. So tho those are awesome opportunities to learn. There's so many resources out there from a book perspective. I can't go anywhere without talking about the BABO guide from I b a as well as if you're a member of I B A.You have access to our online library with over 11,000 titles of amazing books on leadership analysis data agile pretty much anything you can think of. It's all there. So those are the resources that I will recommend and hopefully you can find some nuggets. In thoseFinal words[01:10:54] Paddy Dhanda: Wow. There's bags of learning just right there. And we're almost at the end of this epic episode. I personally want to thank each and every one of my awesome guests on today's podcast. I'll be sharing everyone's LinkedIn details in the show notes. So I do encourage everyone to follow up with them directly on any points that you've heard in this episode.[01:11:18] Sam Merrick: Thank you very much for having me on the Superpowers School podcast.I'm so chuffed to be invited to, to do this, so thank you very much. Yeah, if anybody's got any need to get into contact with me, you can find me on LinkedIn. It'd be awesome to connect. And yeah, thank you again.[01:11:33] Fabrício Laguna: Thank you very much for having me here, Paddy. It was a pleasure and an honor. Thank you everybody for hearing it. And if you want more information, please check my website, thebrazillianba.com. Subscribe to my YouTube channel, The Brazilian BA on YouTube, and let's get connected. Find me on LinkedIn. My name is Fabricio Laguna.It'll be a pleasure to connect with you, to have you in my network to share information with you. Don't be shy.[01:12:07] Christina Lovelock: Thanks so much for giving me this opportunity to talk about business analysis, which is pretty much my favorite topic.You can keep in touch with me, Christina Lovelock, via LinkedIn, and you can hear more from me in the BA Times It Now magazine and Ba Digest, or in the book that I wrote with Deborah Paul, which is called Delivering Business Analysis. Bye for now and thanks again, Paddy, and for everyone for listening.[01:12:29] Nick de Voil: Thanks very much for having me, Paddy. If anyone would like to keep in touch, I'm easy enough to find on LinkedIn or Twitter, that'd be great to hear from you. You might be interested in taking a look at the articles I've been writing in Ba Digest.And I've been writing a series of articles in there about group construct analysis, which is a way of understanding organizations and people in organizations and the way that they think and talk and influence each other. So yeah be great to hear from anyone that wants to keep in touch.Thanks very much, Patty.[01:13:06] Vincent Mirabelli: So folks thank you so much. And Paddy, thank you so much for having me on the show. You are a gentleman and a scholar and one of the finest dudes I know, even if you are from Birmingham. Oh, just kidding, man. Don't send the Peaky Blinders after me.But anyways, I wanna thank you for inviting me to participate and share my thoughts, share my perspectives on things. You know, I would invite all of your listeners to provide feedback. I wanna hear, you know, what do they agree with, what do they disagree with? Any of the things that I've said? And, you know, if anyone wants to hit me up, they can get me at my website, vincentmirabelli.com. Oh, I guess let me also promote while I'm here, Analysts After Work. And I know Paddy, you were a memorable guest on Analysts After Work where, you know, I refused to draw and I kind of regret cuz I should have played along.But anyways so Analysts After Work vincentmirabelli.com and you know, you and your podcast. You're awesome dude,[01:14:02] Jamie Toyne: Paddy, thanks again for inviting me on to the Superpowers School podcast. I've long been a fan of the series, so I was really humbled when he invited me onto it. If anyone's enjoyed listening to what I've had to say would like to follow up the conversation, please get in contact with me either via LinkedIn or via the Herd consulting website.It's a shameless plug time, it's www.herd.consulting and he can drop us an email or get in contact every, the socials there. But thank you again and if there's anything we can help your organization with in terms of business analysis we are a rockstar business analysis consultancy, so we like to see things a little differently.And if that's something of interest, get in touch and would love to have a conversation. Thanks again.[01:14:47] Adrian Reed: Fantastic. Paddy, thank you so much for having me on the podcast. I think it's such a great set of topics to be discussing. Such a tricky set of questions you set for me, but that's always part of the fun.I would love to stay in touch with anyone that has even been vaguely interested in what I've had to say. So just connect with me on LinkedIn. My name's Adrian Reed that's r e e d. And if you just let me know you heard about it on this podcast, then I'll know you know, it's always useful to know where you where someone has heard about me.Also I've mentioned a few times the Ba Digest magazine. you'd like to get access to that if you go to blackmetric.com and click on resources and Ba Digest, you'll find it there. And that's blackmetric.com. And then click on resources and Ba Digest, you'll find it there. And if you have any trouble finding it, just you know, ping me up on LinkedIn.Also if you want free ba stuff throughout just follow Black Metric Business Solutions on LinkedIn cuz we share all sorts of content and memes to brighten up your day. But do get in touch. Always great to hear from other bas.[01:15:51] Angela Wick: Paddy, thanks so much for having me on your show. I am looking forward to hearing the feedback from your listeners and if folks wanna follow up with me, they can find me on LinkedIn or ba-cube.com and I look forward to seeing everyone on LinkedIn or BA Cube.Thanks so much.[01:16:09] Bronia Anderson-Kelly: Yeah, thanks for having me on Paddy. It was great to chat on here. I think it's always good to get involved in any discussions that are BA related. I always enjoy that. Yeah, if any feedback or if there's any questions or people wanna get in touch, then feel free to find me on LinkedIn.That's the easiest way I think I'm the only Bronia Anderson-Kelly, that's b r o n i a. So, yeah, look me upon there and connect upon there. I look forward to hearing from anyone.[01:16:34] Jared Gorai: Wow, what an incredible experience. I love the fact that I had the opportunity to, you know, talk about business analysis, which is a topic that's near and dear to my heart, obviously.I want to thank you for listening. Thank you, Paddy for the opportunity. This has been exceptional. I daresay even fantastic. I know my team gives me a hard time cause I love using the word fantastic, but it has been fantastic. There are so many ways to connect with me and I hope that you do.You can connect me via LinkedIn at Jared Gorai. Also you can look up me up on iiba.org. I'm, as I said, the director of chapters and member engagement and it's been my absolute pleasure. So thank you.[01:17:14] Linda Parker: Thank you for having me on the show. If you want to know more about me being a BA or the BA Life Conference, you can find me on LinkedIn.My username is Linda Parker BA. Feel free to get in touch. Similarly, to discover more about BA Life, the BA Festival in a day. Check out our website at www.balife.co.uk or again on LinkedIn. I look forward to catching up with you and listening to your feedback. Thanks again.[01:17:48] Grant Wright: Thanks Paddy for having me on the show. If anybody does want to keep in touch, I'm more than happy to connect on LinkedIn. I'm quite active on LinkedIn and, uh, more than happy to, to receive connections and talk about any of the things that we've spoken about on the show today. If people want to follow more about what I do in the world of visual thinking, you can find me on Instagram my handle is GW underscore Wright. And you can also go along to thevisualjam.Com, which is an international visual thinking community that I founded with Paddy and we run a free monthly meetup where we get along guests to talk about all things related to visual thinking. And we have lots of fun while we do it.So I would love to see some people come on to that and, you know, learn how you can leverage the power of visual thinking to really amplify your BA skills as well.[01:18:48] Paddy Dhanda: And as they say in show business, that's all folks. I hope you found the insights in this episode useful. If you have any feedback for me, then do let me know. You can connect with me via LinkedIn and drop me a message. And I want to thank IanBorthwick the head of publishing. at the BCS. Who did exactly that and said, Paddy Why don't you include an outro in your episodes? So just for you in, I'm going to try and endeavor to include outros in future episodes. And I just want to thank everybody for taking the time and listening to this episode. Get full access to Superpowers School at www.superpowers.school/subscribe