In this episode, Andrew talks about the rapid audience growth he's seeing on Bluesky and the challenges he's running into finding Founding Users for MetaMonster. The guys talk about the idea of product market fit as a spectrum and validation as a way to uncover where you might be on that spectrum, but without ever getting to 100% certainty. Then Sean talks through trying to find his next side project idea. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/CopyWork: https://copy.work/Wordpress to Webflow-ready CSV: https://contentgobl.in/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.Transcript:00:00.01SeanThis is a full Andrew podcast with Sean does a support character today Mainly because I was late before this call00:08.75AndrewUh, I was also kind of late. I was chatting with a friend and it took me a while. Yeah. what's up, man? How are you?00:17.09SeanI'm good. um I'm busy. um Yeah, I'm busy. A lot of things happening with miscreants, Q4, trying to get a lot of things wrapped up before the holidays and and just so much inbound.00:31.44SeanSo much inbound.00:31.83AndrewThat's great.00:32.67SeanYeah, it is. It's amazing. You know, partially00:34.65Andrewyou see You sound exhausted by it. but00:36.91SeanI'm so tired. Yeah. Well, partially thanks to you for for doing some really good work as well. So I appreciate it.00:43.48AndrewCool. I'm glad it's been helping.00:45.98SeanYeah, absolutely. What's up with you? What's going on?00:49.78AndrewSo two things I want to talk about today, a small one and then a bigger one that I want to work out some thoughts with, with you and our, our 12 listeners.01:01.03SeanYeah.01:02.70Andrewso the small one real quick blue sky is popping off right now. It is wild. I've been, I've had an account for like two weeks now and I'm up to 1200 followers.01:16.59Andrewstarter kits are this like magical growth hack, uh, where01:16.28Seanhe yeah01:20.44SeanAre starter kits just lists but people can auto follow everyone in the list?01:25.31AndrewBasically, yeah, yeah, a starter kit is basically like a Twitter list.01:26.99Seanokay01:30.65AndrewBut so in Blue Sky, you have three concepts that that fulfill part of the responsibility of lists um in Twitter. So you have starter kits, which are a way to curate a list of people that you think others should follow most often around the topic. So like, I'm in a couple of like indie hacker, indie founder, bootstrap founder, starter kits. and you can, when you open a starter kit, you can follow individual people or you can just click follow all.02:01.31Andrewand And so that's how I found people to follow. I'm following like 360 people. It's almost all from like a handful of starter kits. And then and it's a really great mechanism for people to very quickly build a little network.02:18.09AndrewAnd it's if you get added to a couple of these, it's an awesome growth mechanism.02:22.54SeanHell02:22.64AndrewSo I'm up to 1,200 followers. very, very quickly, which is cool.02:28.21Seanyeah.02:29.29AndrewAnd we'll see how that correlates to engagement. wasn't seeing much engagement for the first like maybe 400 or 500 followers, but now I feel like I'm starting to see some pretty solid engagement.02:41.50AndrewI think engagement is naturally going to lag behind followers on the platform while people are still building a habit of checking and using Blue Sky, because it's still like A lot of people are switching over right now or like signing up and trying it for the first time, and so they're not going to have that usage habit right away. But I'm now seeing more engagement there than I am on tweets, and I have like 2700 Twitter followers.03:09.80AndrewSo there's there's starter kits, then there's lists. they do have lists that work exactly like Twitter lists, which are like a non-algorithmic way to curate a list of people whose content you want to view without following them. And then they have feeds, which are custom algorithms that developers can write and publish.03:31.61Andrewso there's like 50,000 feeds. So there's essentially 50,000 different algorithms you can choose to subscribe to and follow. So there's a default discover algorithm. There's a default like following algorithm, where it's just everyone you follow.03:46.88Andrewthen you can subscribe to lots of different feeds and customize your algorithm work the way you want to, which is a really cool idea.03:59.56AndrewYeah.03:57.79Seanthat is a really cool idea i wonder i wonder if there's like a secret like if your feed is used a lot you know how like you know plug-in like places that like have that you do upload plugins and stuff will pay out a certain amount if you have like a cool04:13.36AndrewMaybe. Yeah. I don't think they've started doing revenue sharing on blue sky yet. and they very openly said they're going to try to stay away from advertising and sell premium features, which is interesting. sort of Also the blue sky team is only 20 people. There are 20 people on the team.04:34.05SeanSo you're saying Musk didn't fire enough people when he joined Twitter. That's what you're telling me.04:39.64AndrewI'm saying it's really cool what they're doing. And they're they're being very open and like chatting with and interacting with the community. Overall, the vibes are just, it I think because it's new, like this won't last forever, but because it's new, people are looking for people to follow. They're looking for content to engage with. therere They're just more open and and curious than where people have more set patterns of behavior that they fall into.05:11.07AndrewSo the vibes are really good right ...

In this episode, Sean talks about getting himself out of day-to-day client work at Miscreants, and Andrew provides an update on his slow progress with customer acquisition for MetaMonster. Andrew shares an idea for a side project and they talk about Dharmesh buying the chat.com domain and "flipping" it to OpenAI.Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/CopyWork: https://copy.work/Wordpress to Webflow-ready CSV: https://contentgobl.in/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.Transcript:00:00.98SeanAll right, what is this thing, Andrew? What are you gonna tell me? even It's been 30 minutes since you told me we we're changing what we're talking about today. Now you've been, okay, go.00:12.23Andrewlet me Let me just play this for you and I think it'll all make sense.00:15.25SeanOkay.00:21.25Andrewand00:24.28Andrewhoping you can so into me baby00:28.45AndrewDo you know what this is yet?00:33.18SeanYes. I know what this is. I know what this is. This is the... I feel bad for all Asian guys in SF. I'll never outdo you, you tech bros. It's fucking over.00:51.69AndrewWait, wait! graves keepki godam oh01:02.88AndrewI never thought I would hear Mark Zuckerberg with T paid singing sweat, drip down my balls.01:04.84Seanz pain that's what what what do you want to do you want to dissect the lyrics you want to01:11.18AndrewOh, ski, ski motherfucker. Oh, ski, ski. God damn.01:17.79AndrewOh my God. I found this and I was like, holy shit. Clear everything. This is all I want to talk about.01:32.86Seanhoney01:32.98AndrewI think it's just fucking hilarious. And like, I can't decide if I like love it or hate it. Like I can't decide if it's the best thing ever or the most cringe thing ever. And I think I love it. And I think I love it in part because it is kind of cringe and he just doesn't give a fuck.01:52.89Seanfor what it's worth though maybe this was the light at the this was the this was the one piece of uplifting news in recent times my executor the one who keeps us going02:01.14AndrewRight. Oh my God.02:08.17AndrewYeah. So that, that is the, uh, Mark Zuckerberg collaboration with T-Pain. Uh, their group is unofficially or officially, I guess, Z-Pain. Um, they have one single, which is an acoustic version of Gitlo, which Mark recorded for his wife Priscilla because apparently it's the song they listened to every anniversary.02:28.74SeanYep, and then you played it for her, and...02:32.21AndrewIs there a video of him playing it for her?02:33.61SeanYeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.02:34.49AndrewOh my God, I gotta go watch that. i I mean, he's found something that works. Being a wife guy is working for his brand right now and he is leaning all all the way in.02:47.07Andrewand02:47.21SeanHey, you know what they say about wife guys, though?02:50.47AndrewYeah.02:50.85Seanon the internet. okay I just hope he doesn't.02:53.35AndrewYep, it's gonna blow up at some point.02:57.23SeanI don't think he was on the ditty list, so we'll be okay.02:57.61AndrewBut...03:00.01Seanwe might or Or the FC list, so we might be okay.03:04.72AndrewFor what it's worth, I love T-Pain so much.03:08.46SeanYeah, he's great. He's great.03:09.83AndrewT-Pain's Tiny Desk Concert is one of my all-time favorites. It's so good.03:13.97Seani I just love that he is just doing side quests at the moment. Like, the guy's a genius.03:21.04AndrewZuck or T-Pain?03:22.12SeanNo, no, T-Pain. Zuck, I guess, is also doing a side quests at the moment, but like...03:23.46AndrewYeah.03:26.12SeanI'll just like I'll watch random youtubers and like sometimes T-Pain will just show up like like that are not related to things related to him you know I'm watching like a car guy youtuber boom T-Pain's winning a drift competition yeah I'm on twitch all of a sudden or I'm not on I'm browsing twitch and all of a sudden T-Pain's a streamer I don't know yeah03:28.43AndrewMm-hmm.03:36.42AndrewMm hmm. Holy shit, that's cool.03:47.23AndrewBy the way, on the Zuck side, I just listened to the acquired episode about Metta, and it made me realize that like. I feel like public perception of Metta is changing a little bit like I feel like Elon Musk buying Twitter.04:01.86SeanYeah.04:04.11Andrewhas kind of has taken a lot of the heat off of meta.04:06.90SeanYeah.04:07.45AndrewAnd so now everyone's like, Elon's elon's the evil one.04:09.12SeanHe's almost like, it could be so much worse.04:13.00AndrewAnd yeah, Elon's like, you guys think 2016 Facebook was bad?04:13.84SeanYeah.04:19.71AndrewBro, hold my drink.04:21.08SeanListen, when you gotta be the best at everything, you know?04:26.64AndrewIncluding being a massive fucking troll.04:28.86SeanYeah.04:30.46AndrewYeah, but it made me realize that like I don't hate meta as much as I used to. And I i don't know if that's like.04:35.61...

In this episode, Andrew and Sean talk about Halloween plans and Sean's decision to kill Stackwise. Meanwhile, Sean has launched two new free tools in the last week! The guys talk about how he did it and what his goals are for both of them. Then they spend the rest of the episode brainstorming marketing ideas for MetaMonster.Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/CopyWork: https://copy.work/Wordpress to Webflow-ready CSV: https://contentgobl.in/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.Transcript:00:00.35SeanCool. Happy Halloween.00:02.59AndrewHappy Halloween.00:04.93SeanAre you going to any parties?00:05.11Andrewo00:08.27SeanAre you doing anything?00:09.37AndrewYeah, we're so normally we go to Chicago for Halloween hang out.00:14.09SeanBecause it's extra scary there. Sorry, go ahead.00:16.45AndrewWhat?00:17.99SeanIt's just so scary in Chicago. and i don't know that's not why that's not why i was That's not why I was going with that.00:20.19AndrewWow, that's racist, John. Fuck you, dude.00:26.99SeanJeez, I'm kidding.00:29.92Andrewfucking New Yorkers hating on Chicago. Gross.00:33.16SeanThat's not racist. I'm just elitist. That's different.00:38.29SeanYeah.00:39.11Andrewnormally we go to Chicago because, uh, a bunch of Maddie's best friends from high school all live there and they throw a Halloween party every year. So normally early we go and we go out with them and we go to like one bar and then we go get, uh, like shitty Greek food and then we go home.00:46.34Seanyeah00:56.68SeanNice.00:57.84Andrewbut this year we decided to stay in Detroit, because we love Halloween and we love decorating for Halloween and. We've never gotten to be in Detroit for Halloween, we really want to pass out candy this year so tomorrow, which will probably be today by the time I get this published.01:16.54AndrewWe're gonna hang out, pass out candy, go drink some beers with our neighbors. And then Saturday, one of our best friends is throwing a haunted carnival party.01:27.46AndrewIt's her second year in a row throwing this like haunted carnival themed Halloween party.01:30.91SeanSick.01:32.68AndrewSo we're gonna go to the haunted carnival party and Maddie's dressing up as a ringmaster and I'm dressing up dressing up as a lion.01:39.02SeanNice.01:39.91AndrewShe's like a ringmaster lion tamer and then I'm a lion.01:42.17SeanYeah, hell yeah.01:43.56AndrewSo it's gonna be fun.01:44.70SeanSick.01:46.43AndrewYeah, what about you?01:48.22SeanI'm debating on whether or not there's this like Instagram, ah like ah ah actually been sorry. I don't even know what they are. There's just like some cool internet website thing called shell tech that they're like a band or or producer do, or I don't, I don't fucking know.02:02.36SeanThey just make music. It's apparently dropped the new album.02:03.90AndrewFun.02:05.31SeanThey have like an album party tomorrow and I think it's for, so maybe that, or maybe I'll be in my room jamming away.02:08.48Andrewpun02:16.05Seanon whether or not stackwise has a future because i am uh-huh yeah02:19.88Andrewwait Wait, wait, pause before we get too far into that. Can you just tell me a little bit about like what Halloween is like in New York? I'm so curious.02:32.57AndrewLike Yeah.02:33.00Seanwhat is how yeah yeah yeah yeah it's like uh well in queens it's super cute it's very residential you know so everyone like especially in a lot of kids in the neighborhood they walk around and they get candy and there's like really nice areas in queens that people will go to and there's like halloween decorations and stuff yeah exactly exactly the full skies can i think it's a trap i think that's like a like02:52.01AndrewGot to go get the full size candy bars. I went to Costco today and I was this close to buying the full size bars, but yeah, I'm not actually sure it's better.03:03.66AndrewI'm not sure giving out full size bars is better. Like my plan is to give out a big old handful of candy and, and then you get a mix of candy and you get to like spread it out a little.03:05.94SeanUh-huh. Yeah. Yeah.03:14.05AndrewWhereas if I give you a full size bar, you're going to eat it super fast.03:18.14SeanI was just gonna say, like, the expectation of being in a house that gives full-sized candy bars, that's dangerous.03:21.100AndrewOh yeah. Once you go, once you go full size, you can't go back.03:24.58SeanYeah. Exactly. You can't, you can't roll back the whatever.03:27.20AndrewYeah.03:30.16SeanYeah. But like, yeah.03:34.39AndrewIt was 20 bucks for 30 full size bars or 20 bucks for like a five pound bag of candy.03:40.29SeanYeah, see?03:40.72AndrewAnd so I was like.03:42.09SeanDid you see that meme of, uh, one of the fuh- uh, like, fuh in a Halloween bucket?03:47.49AndrewYes, that was so good.03:47.91SeanAnd it's like, one ...

In this episode, Sean discusses the challenges he is facing (and his new momentum) with his project Stackwise, including finding the right developer and getting the project scope defined. He talks about discovering a no-code tool called Subframe that has helped streamline his design process. Andrew shares his progress building the MetaMonster website with Astro and SpinalCMS, and gets feedback from Sean on the first round of MetaMonster wireframes. They also discuss pricing models and ideas for holding company names. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/New MetaMonster website built with Astro: https://metamonster.ai/MetaMonster prototype designs: Click hereChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...FigTree: Coming soon...Podscan: https://podscan.fm/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.Transcript:00:00.76SeanThe yeah motivation for the podcast is brought to you by Arvid Kahl, the creator of Podscan.00:09.01AndrewHi, Arvid.00:10.02SeanHi Arvid. Shout out to Arvid.00:13.06AndrewPodscan, Podscan, Podscan.00:14.76SeanYeah, the creator of Podscan, excellent tool, doesn't sponsor us, but but has been the reason why we've had three founders reach out to us on Twitter now.00:25.94SeanSo that's pretty cool. It's kind of just like a modern day summoning ritual at this point, Beatlejuice.00:33.81AndrewBy the way, what did you say is brought to you by podscan? Did you say like, did you say this podcast sounded like you said like the wrong name of our podcast?00:39.44SeanOh, the oh this episode no, the motivation, the motivation for ah ah for for this podcast, the the the motivation to do today's episode.00:47.14AndrewOh, okay.00:50.86SeanYeah, yeah.00:51.40AndrewGot it. Got it.00:52.63SeanYeah. Now that we are a full minute in.00:54.17AndrewCool, man.00:55.65Seanbut00:57.34AndrewHow are you? What's going on?00:58.79SeanI'm good. I'm good. Remember how I was super stressed last week about stack-wise and the lack of movement on it?01:08.93AndrewMm hmm.01:10.11SeanSo I I put some more budget towards it, a little bit more, and just or like a ah you know mentally committed more budget to it.01:17.41AndrewCool.01:21.40SeanAnd checked out Lemon.io. a little bit more expensive than I think. We'll see. I don't know. I checked Alumni.01:29.78AndrewYeah, fair.01:30.22SeanI also went on Upwork to look for devs. Had some like interesting proposals come in. Then I was talking to a dev and He looked really promising. He was like 75 bucks an hour, is like about lemon I.O. prices. So and you know, he he like like takes supplements and and whatnot. So he has some realm of understanding. And then he hit me with a he'd so he reviewed the he reviewed the current code and everything. And then he hit me with a yeah, if you want me to like fully scope it, I'm going to need you to like actually give me user stories and like better Figma wireframes.02:10.35AndrewLike actually project manage and like build a scope and everything like via products manager.02:11.90SeanYeah, yeah, like actually do it. I know, I know. And then I was like, wow, that's really annoying. I guess that's kind of fair, I guess. um It's hard to so like really feel like I've put my foot best foot forward on this project without having done that. So I did it. I wrote a PRD. I wrote a bunch of user stories. I mean, I had one in the past that was like a loose bullet pointed list, but this was like a little bit more official.02:35.52AndrewYeah.02:37.13Seanand then I, and then I sort of wireframe, like rewire framing some stuff in Figma. and, uh, you know, that, that, that for a little bit was pushing back my timeline.02:48.31Seani have a day job which takes more time out of my which takes more than just my regular day so it's like ah like I got maybe like two screens into the fig into the Figma part and I was like damn I really don't want to go like do this all over again because like I have shitty wireframes right I don't um um uh and oh oh and and in the meantime like as as these guys were like reviewing it i i kind of felt a little bit uh like uh like like i don't know at a just like an informational disadvantage a little bit so03:24.97SeanI've also just watched a shit ton of Laravel tutorials and Laravel things. now now I kind of like mostly understand Laravel and PHP, not to a degree that I can write it, but to a degree that I can read it and know what's going on and and like and make edits and stuff.03:39.55AndrewMm hmm.03:42.17SeanSo, you know, I was able to kind of review the proposals a little bit better. That's been my last week until yesterday. And then I remembered that there is this thing I saw, which was a no code frontend React, like build at with tailwind components, or build with like like React components export as React code and tailwind. And it's called subframe, YC startup, super, super small. I don't know how small they are, but very small following.04:12.66SeanExcellent product. God, it's so good.04:15.69AndrewCool.04:15.54SeanAnd not only is it good, it feels like a mix between Figma and Webflow, except I'm kind of working with like components. And i if I want more components, I have to make more make them on my own.04:25.92SeanBut there's a long list of just basically subframe versions of Tailwind components. And it makes me way happier to be designing in this than designing in Figma, mainly because I hate the idea that if I'm going to desi...

In this episode Andrew tries to pick a CMS for the new MetaMonster website and talks about his dream solution. Then the guys talk about their ideal consulting businesses. Meanwhile Sean is feeling frustrated by how slow his projects are moving, and wishes he could focus on them fulltime for a bit. They also touch on the difficulties of balancing attention to design details versus just getting a product out the door quickly. Finally, Sean shares 3 businesses he loves. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...FigTree: Coming soon...For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.Transcript:00:00:00.01SeanUh, yeah, I mean, I was going to talk about, well, I should have your record.00:00:05.81AndrewDo you want to start over?00:00:07.50SeanNo, it just let's just roll with it. Hi, everyone.00:00:10.80AndrewHi, how's it going? Behind the scenes look at Andrew and Sean being a bit of a clusterfuck trying to figure out what the hell the pod about 30 seconds before the pod or five seconds after the pod.00:00:12.65SeanGood.00:00:20.21SeanWe're very organized or we're incredibly organized. think, I think it's a good segue into, into like, we can talk about like other service business and I have a segue into it because I was kind of curious about just how your consulting is sort of going now that.00:00:34.65AndrewOkay.00:00:35.35SeanYeah. but more importantly, some crazy, crazy, crazy tech Twitter stuff going on these days, huh?00:00:42.87AndrewOh, so when i when I said I wanted to talk about CMSs, yeah the WordPress drama, I feel like we covered a little bit last time.00:00:42.94SeanSince the last.00:00:49.11SeanYeah.00:00:49.88AndrewThere's more updates. it's It keeps getting wackier.00:00:53.21SeanMm hmm.00:00:53.72AndrewThe WordPress founder took over a plugin, which is batshit crazy.00:00:59.63SeanYeah, I was just going to go from crazy batshit WordPress things into maybe Ghost and then CMS's house imagining.00:01:08.50AndrewUh, sorry, I totally fucked your, your segue there.00:01:09.97SeanNo.00:01:13.12Andrewyeah, anyway, I need to build a website and I'm trying to pick a CMS and I want you to, to I want you to tell me which CMS to use and I'm gonna, I'm gonna like ignore you and tell you why you're wrong on every CMS.00:01:22.11Seansquarepace Okay.00:01:26.46AndrewLike, because they all suck.00:01:26.71SeanOkay. Hit me. Hit me. They do all suck, but hit me.00:01:31.00AndrewOkay. So I think I have it narrowed down. I wanted to use, so I'm trying to build a proper marketing site for MetaMonster so that I can get a little bit of SEO stuff rolling and then publish some content and just like have a place to do marketing.00:01:51.26Andrewum want to build some free tools, want to do some other things to just start building building the list, our waiting list.00:01:54.30SeanYeah.00:01:59.89AndrewSo need to pick a CMS. would typically just build on Webflow. Like Webflow is so fast. It's what I built chart juice on. It's clunky, it's expensive, it has its problems. The CMS sucks if you're doing a lot of content, but for like early stage SaaS website, I don't know many things better. So would typically just do Webflow. But I know one of the marketing channels I wanna try is building00:02:32.68Andrewsome free tools to try to drive, get like SEO juice from, from free tools and like some traffic. it just aligns perfectly with MetaMonster, you know, having a free like, enter a link or copy and paste your content in and we'll generate a page title for you. We'll generate a meta description for you. Like it just makes too much sense. Um, and sorry, one second. Let me let my cat in.00:02:57.67Seangot00:02:58.58AndrewCome on in you dork.00:03:01.38AndrewOkay. So yeah, I want to build free tools and like.00:03:03.43SeanYou want to build free tools. It's great. It isn't a monster.00:03:08.40AndrewThe process of doing that in Webflow is just clunky. I could yeah know i could build them, host them on some free thing like Netlify, and then just like run them on a subdomain.00:03:19.66AndrewBut you know if the whole point is SEO, then running it on a subdomain is a little counterproductive. you know It's not the worst thing in the world, I guess, but you're just like, do they now?00:03:28.86Seandoes it you I thought subdomains count as the main domains. like Yeah, I thought that was the whole thing.00:03:38.16AndrewI feel, oh, okay, I need to look into that. Cause that would massively simplify my my problems.00:03:44.34Seanright00:03:46.07AndrewI always thought like best practice was to do everything on your primary domain and that like subdomains got treated differently.00:03:52.10SeanI thought that00:03:56.09AndrewYou're looking it up.00:03:57.51SeanYeah, I'm looking it up. I feel like it was something.00:04:01.40AndrewThere was a Google update, like in this, one of these new big updates, they they started00:04:02.81SeanYeah.00:04:06.13SeanYeah.00:04:07.62AndrewMashing it all together.00:04:08.89SeanYeah. I mean, Ahrefs literally pulls shop.mistreins.com and mistreins.com into one thing now for me.00:04:16.03AndrewInteresting.00:04:16.97SeanSo. I don't know. Yea...

Sean just got back from two weeks in Korea and Japan. His trip got derailed when he had to jump in to put out fires and finish some Webflow dev work for a client. He and Andrew talk about the challenges of removing yourself from the day-to-day as an agency owner and how to balance work and time off.  Andrew gives an update on the client work he's doing with Miscreants, his decision to put ChartJuice on the backburner, and the traction he's seeing with a new product (MetaMonster) he's working on with a partner. MetaMonster helps SEO agencies automate metadata cleanup using AI. He already has 3 agencies/consultants signed on to be design partners and is working on getting more. We wrap up with an outsider's explanation of all the Wordpress drama going on right now. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...FigTree: Coming soon...For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.Transcript:00:00:01.77SeanWhat's up? I wanna go see.00:00:03.30AndrewMiss you.00:00:04.17SeanI wanna see you too. I wanna see you too.00:00:05.85AndrewHow are you?00:00:06.85SeanGood. I feel like I saw you in person and then all of a sudden I was in Korea and Japan and then I...00:00:13.69AndrewYeah, shit. That was like not, not far apart, was it?00:00:14.59SeanSo... It wasn't... My last memory of the US was being at your place and drinking cocktails. So, yeah.00:00:26.00AndrewThat's a good night.00:00:26.91SeanIt was a good night. It was a good night. We played basketball.00:00:30.25Andrewbut that was Oh my God.00:00:32.10SeanPlay is a strong word. We attempted basketball.00:00:35.25AndrewWe threw basketballs around in the dark and like one or two of them went into a basket.00:00:40.26SeanYeah.00:00:40.26AndrewOh my God. You made me feel a lot better though. Cause I was like, I was like, Sean's going to smoke me. Like he's going to be so embarrassed at how bad at basketball I am and you are just as bad as I am.00:00:51.77AndrewSo I was like, okay, cool.00:00:56.81SeanYeah. I think about like how like my first million has that basketball camp. Just like there's no way all these people are that good at basketball.00:01:08.14AndrewI love the image of like Sean Burry is just like, you know, making people like, uh, like bring over a step stool or something so he can dunk. He's like, but then he he goes on my first million and talks about it and he's like, yeah, it was awesome.00:01:17.33SeanYeah.00:01:23.65SeanYeah, I hit every sh- I hit- I banked every shot.00:01:26.87AndrewNo, I think like there are a lot of people in tech who are actually athletic because they played sports at some point in their life.00:01:35.34SeanYeah, probably.00:01:35.70AndrewAnd then, and then there's the rest of us who got into tech because we were nerds and liked computers.00:01:42.01SeanYeah. Oh. Plus, I mean, you rock climb. Like, you're pretty athletic.00:01:47.12AndrewI haven't been rock climbing in like two months.00:01:47.27SeanYou- you just suck the best at work.00:01:51.37SeanOh.00:01:51.95AndrewI am actually going rock climbing outside in with some friends in two weeks, and I'm like, I should probably go climb a wall in the gym before I go, because I haven't climbed in like two or three months, so.00:01:51.93SeanOkay.00:01:55.81SeanOh, cool.00:02:00.09SeanYeah.00:02:02.82Seanand Get those forearm muscles pumping again.00:02:05.99AndrewI gotta get my skin. My skin's gonna.00:02:07.90SeanRight.00:02:09.20Andrewlike be shredded if I if I don't climb at all and then go try to climb outside so I feel like it takes me like two or three climbs before my skin starts to thicken up again00:02:19.51Seanyou know what you can do there's this guy on tiktok he pours i don't know what it is but something really sticky on his hands so he like is like a martial artist or something and it's like it's like epoxy or something and he basically just rubs it on his hand and or like sand papers down his hand basically and until it gets super super rough he just does it every single day on tiktok it's gross.00:02:40.15SeanIt's terrible. And you can like, oh, oh, it's, uh, it's like floor wax.00:02:43.18AndrewAnd so then it like grows back thicker or something?00:02:45.40SeanYeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like floor wax basically.00:02:47.63AndrewWait, wait, wait. We were talking about the wrong thing. How was your fucking trip?00:02:48.09Seanhe just like, and he also puts his hand next to the microphone and it's like the worst version of ASMR you've ever heard in your life. It's like worst at misophonia. Um.00:02:57.48Andrewwait wait wait we're talking about the wrong thing how was your fucking trip00:03:03.02SeanWell, much like listening to really shit awful man hands. It was. It was good to attempt a vacation.00:03:17.29AndrewOh, no.00:03:18.12SeanIt was not it is it is not what I would call a vacation.00:03:18.68AndrewOh, no, Sean.00:03:23.61SeanIt sucked. It sucked to be honest with you. It was like it.00:03:26.96AndrewBrutal.00:03:26.33SeanYeah, yeah, y...

In this episode, Andrew and Sean got hit up by someone clearly using Podscan... again! They talk about it, then Andrew shares details about his recent trip to Mexico City, including highlights like a hot air balloon ride over the pyramids and an exciting Lucha Libre wrestling match.Sean provides an update on Stackwise, discussing the data sources they've uncovered and the challenges of building a comprehensive database. Meanwhile, Andrew delves into the validation process for his latest SEO-focused startup idea, weighing the pros and cons of targeting different user segments.Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...FigTree: Coming soon...Podscan.fm: https://podscan.fm/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.Transcript:00:01.71SeanYou know what we should rename our podcast tagline to?00:05.21Andrewsandwich free.00:06.47SeanNo, not same.00:09.97AndrewWhat is that?00:10.48SeanNo, the best case study that Podscan works.00:15.95SeanWe should be front page on Podscan FM.00:18.73AndrewGenuinely, we should we should reach out to it's not Arjun. What's his name, Arran?00:24.60SeanI have no idea. I don't know who makes Podscan. I just know about it.00:27.08AndrewOh, he's he's the dude who's the. ah ah Oh, fuck, I signed out of Twitter everywhere. so that I wouldn't get distracted.00:36.50SeanNice. I'll look it up.00:37.86AndrewArlen, something like that, he built he built like class dojo or he he built some like teaching software with his wife, sold it.00:48.13SeanArvid. Arvid.00:48.97AndrewArvid, Arvid call, that's his name.00:49.57SeanArvid.00:51.16AndrewYeah, yeah, yeah. Also, if avid has a and Arvid hot scan trigger, we'll find out.00:56.81SeanYeah, we'll find out. Arvid.00:59.14AndrewSo, hey Arvid.00:59.99SeanArvid call. Arvid call. Arvid call. Feedback panda. Arvid call.01:03.88Andrewfeed neck to end there, that's what it was.01:06.67SeanZero to sold, or we'd call. Alright, maybe we'll summon him for the next one.01:12.62AndrewYeah, that was wild. So, I get...01:18.40AndrewI forget which podcast episodes we've published because I'm behind. So I like didn't even realize I'd published that episode.01:24.75SeanYeah.01:24.82AndrewBut we published a podcast episode where we were kind of like, I was hating on intro. You're pro intro. I was hating on intro.01:32.17SeanUh-huh.01:33.57AndrewAnd then the CEO of intro tweeted at us this week and was like, here's why you're wrong and why intro is great.01:39.63Seannot Really, it's not really a tweet. It was kind of an essay, actually. It was kind of like, yeah, yeah.01:42.93AndrewYeah.01:44.32SeanBut that's the second time someone famous on the internet has hit us up on Twitter because of that.01:49.41AndrewI wish they would fucking promote our podcast when they treat at us.01:56.45SeanI don't know.01:56.90AndrewInstead of doing it so subtly.01:57.13SeanI feel like this is a secret and feel like there's a little secret growth hack in there, you know?02:01.18AndrewYeah, but the girth hack only works if they like tell people about you.02:06.72SeanNo, no, no, no, no. I think that you can leverage it for, for more reach.02:08.29AndrewTo become biffles.02:12.19SeanCause if I, cause if I reply to his thing, I'm, you know, I feel like there's enough Twitter engagement there in in the, you know, get the algo going and, and, and you know, what is beef marketing?02:22.26AndrewIs this like even grosser beef marketing?02:27.16AndrewBeef marketing is when you start beef with somebody just for like the views and the clicks.02:30.09SeanOh, I see.02:35.19AndrewSo obnoxious.02:36.88SeanI say yeah.02:37.09Andrewyeah who's You know who's the king of beef marketing?02:41.16SeanNo. Who's the king of beef marketing?02:42.94AndrewDHH. DHH is the02:44.69SeanOh.02:45.98AndrewThe king, the founder, the creator, the the god of beef marketing.02:51.86SeanRight, right, right.02:52.08AndrewThat man can start beef with anybody.02:54.78Seanright say well What's his full name? Just in case pods can.02:56.89AndrewDavid Heinemeyer Hanson.02:58.48SeanOK, cool, cool, cool. Basecamp, basecamp, basecamp. Maybe he uses Podscan too. Yeah. Yeah. Jason.03:08.45SeanYeah. I don't know. I think he has good ideas sometimes.03:14.37AndrewWhat did you actually think of the intro guy's response to us? I can no longer pull up because I logged myself out of Twitter and don't want to log back in.03:23.34Seanyou know i think i appreciated the thoughtful response um um on it that's kind of03:29.13AndrewYou want to summarize real quick?03:29.28Seanweirded I was weirded out yeah I was weird for what's worth a a little bit weird out kind of kind of weird ...

Note: This episode was supposed to come out a couple of weeks ago. But Andrew forgot to attach the audio file when he went to publish, so it's just been sitting in our podcast hosting software. Sorry about that.  In this episode, Andrew and Sean dig into Paul Graham's founder mode essay that has gone viral in the past couple of weeks. Spoiler alert: Andrew is not a fan. Sean talks about the challenges of evolving client demands with Miscreants, while Andrew recounts his experiences in Mexico City and his decision to pivot ChartJuice towards a freemium model. Then they talk through some of Andrew's new AI-related business ideas, including automating marketing graphics and financial modeling for agencies, and his new co-founder and year-end goals.Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...FigTree: Coming soon...For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.Transcript:00:00.63SeanCan I start this podcast off by reading you a quote?00:06.34AndrewSure, I'm so curious.00:10.28Seanum Have you seen the Ted Chiang essay about Gen AI?00:15.59AndrewNo.00:16.55Seanokay um It was on The New Yorker. he okay so00:20.85AndrewFor a second, when you said JIN AI, I thought J-E-N, and I thought this was like some new AI company I hadn't heard of that named their AI JIN, as in short for Jennifer, and then I realized I'm an idiot, and you're talking about generative AI.00:34.68Andrewso00:35.09SeanWell, there's there's a startup called, I think, Jim, it's like a 25 year old like Korean person who Korean guy um and he like did like the rounds on YouTube for a little bit about how he like went from like broke to 100 million in net worth overnight because.00:35.41Andrewah00:41.20AndrewOh, that's cool.00:51.05AndrewJesus Christ. What?00:52.11Seanum I mean, it was like the dawn of like LLM stuff and jennna I had just started so.00:57.32AndrewYeah.00:57.44Seanadam00:57.71AndrewOkay. All right. Hit me with the quote.00:59.67SeanOkay, so let me just preface this. Ted Chiang, excellent sci-fi writer, um um ah wrote a really great book called Exhalation, one of my favorites.01:10.54Seanum01:10.83AndrewOh, I've been wanting to read that.01:12.94SeanYeah, excellent, excellent book.01:15.57AndrewCool.01:16.59SeanWould recommend, there's like a two page story in there that I really, really like. But, um You know, this this would have been great if i if I had it pull up, and I didn't.01:28.60AndrewHad it pulled up if you were prepared.01:31.18SeanYeah, yeah, yeah. But that's not how we do things. we you You know what? I can't find in this article. So I'm going to pull it up on a Slack thing.01:42.69SeanOK. um It's just the task that generative a generative AI has been most successful at is lowering our expectations. um And I was like, damn.01:54.53AndrewOh, interesting.01:55.78Seanhot take yeah uh01:57.03AndrewHow do, okay. So how do you interpret that?02:00.61Seanwell um i sent it as like a kind of honestly like uh02:05.49AndrewDo you agree?02:10.72SeanYeah, yeah, I do. um I don't agree with his essay. I think his essay about how his essay is about how Gen AI won't ever make art, and I think that's arguably true, um but I think that he misses the fact that Gen AI would be an art form, and people will use it the way that they make art with Photoshop and then collage things together.02:25.42AndrewSure, but at that point, it's not Gen AI making the art, I don't think. I think it's human artists making art using Gen AI as a medium or a tool.02:29.77Seanyou02:35.06SeanAgreed, agreed.02:35.66Andrewah like I think what he's saying is like the thing that Gen AI, at least in its current form, can't think.02:36.21Seanhence in02:43.90Andrewright it doesn't It doesn't produce creative thought.02:44.72SeanRight.02:46.78Andrewit's not It's not actually that intelligent, even though it's really good at looking intelligent.02:47.70SeanRight.02:53.73SeanRight.02:53.80Andrewum it just it repeats it guesses it and you know there's still this possibility that if we like scale it up enough we find out that that's all we do anyway and original thought is all just like guessing and repeating and suddenly it's doing what we can do but like we think that most likely we will need a new technological revolution like and a different form of AI technology paired with02:58.14SeanYeah. yeah03:13.96SeanSure.03:25.17Andrewpaired with or that replaces our current. Anyway, sorry, you know all this shit I'm preaching to the choir.03:28.49Seanknow um Well, to go back to the quote, I absolutely think it's true.03:33.93AndrewYeah.03:34.93SeanI actually think Gen. AI makes incredibly mid stuff. um Yeah.03:39.30AndrewYeah, for the most part. Yeah.03:41.52SeanBut I think we are always astounded by it because of the speed at which it can make incredibly mid stuff is impressive.03:41.64Andrewum03:48.77AndrewYeah.03:50.11SeanAnd that's I think that's lowering expectat...

In this episode, Andrew talks about his upcoming trip to Mexico City, which started as a potential plan to live there but has evolved into a working vacation. Sean talks about recent challenges in his agency, including team members getting sick after conferences and some project misfires with smaller clients. Andrew then gives an update on the lukewarm progress he's seeing with ChartJuice (complete with raw metrics) and again ponders a freemium pivot. He's grappling with the question - how do you know when to give up on a SaaS product? They wrap up by debating whether shelling out big bucks for 15 minutes with a big shot is worth it or just a fancy way to burn cash.Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...FigTree: Coming soon...For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.Transcript:00:00:01.34Seanbut what up what up00:00:02.64AndrewNot much, just ah trying to get a full week of work done for the first time in what feels like weeks um in part because I am headed to Mexico City next week.00:00:09.84Seanyeah well00:00:14.45Andrewum And I'll be working from there, but the first week I'm only going to have like two days because um Maddie gets in like midday Thursday.00:00:14.79Seanyeah00:00:24.72AndrewI'm traveling Monday. um We've got plans Friday um and Thursday afternoon. So it's like, yeah, I'm i'm not getting shit done.00:00:35.69Seanare you Are you going, like, is there a reason you're going or are you just going to hang out because you like.00:00:35.75AndrewSo.00:00:41.99Andrewum It started with like Maddie and I had kind of talked about like this pipe dream of maybe living in Mexico City one day.00:00:49.90SeanOh.00:00:50.25Andrewum Part of me really wants to live in a Spanish speaking country at some point um so that I can become properly fluent because I've been taking Spanish lessons um almost every week for the last like year and some change.00:01:04.58SeanOK.00:01:05.07Andrewum and so And I've just always wanted to be fluent in Spanish. So this was kind of supposed to be a test run. It was a goal I set for myself this year. I was like, all right, I'm taking this year off. I'm focusing on startup shit. But I also want to make sure I still get in at least one long backpacking trip, which I did with my dad. And then I want to go to Mexico City for a couple weeks.00:01:25.52SeanOh yeah.00:01:25.58Andrewum So, um yeah, the plan is to kind of work from there and try to like, try to spend some time.00:01:37.70AndrewWe're going to, again, take some days, have some fun, explore, but then also have some days where it's like go to a working space ah and just like live a normal life.00:01:41.52SeanYeah. Yeah.00:01:48.19Andrewum I think that like the odds of moving to Mexico City are not very high anymore, like it just doesn't feel like it's probably going to fit into like our life plan.00:02:00.44SeanMm00:02:00.83Andrewum But I think that I um would still strongly consider going for a longer stint at some point.00:02:03.94Sean-hmm.00:02:10.30AndrewSo like the school I take lessons from is based in Puebla, which is, like I think, like two hours from Mexico City. So if I like it a lot and you this continues to be a goal, then I might, at some point, go spend a couple months at the school to try to become fluent.00:02:30.28SeanNice, nice. Have I ever told you that I have a pipe dreamer living in Vegas?00:02:37.53AndrewYeah, yeah, we've talked about it.00:02:38.27Seangood Okay, okay, cool, cool, cool, cool. Because I want to be fluid in losing all my money at the casino.00:02:42.93Andrewyeah00:02:45.71SeanThat's cool.00:02:45.76AndrewYou just want DEFCON year round, huh?00:02:48.13SeanYeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. um00:02:51.19AndrewDEFCON's a lot of fun. That sounds awful. DEFCON year round sounds like the worst thing in the world.00:02:55.66SeanYou know, there's a new there's a new conference now that's like going to be the new new big thing, um supposedly.00:02:59.98AndrewReally?00:03:00.66SeanYeah, it goes. It's the Monday right after DEFCON and Black Hat. It's called A.I. 4. It's like the new hotness because it's all like A.I. stuff. It's a corporate event. um00:03:10.75AndrewHotness outside of cybersecurity.00:03:12.58SeanNo, like in in cybersecurity as well.00:03:15.31AndrewBut but like it has broader reach than cybersecurity?00:03:17.72SeanI think so. I think so.00:03:19.29AndrewOK.00:03:19.74SeanI think so. I haven't looked so much into it. I just know that, like, yeah. I just know that. Well, my guess is it's going to be like the black hat, but for AI, basically. um00:03:28.63AndrewWhat was the old hotness?00:03:30.68SeanBlack hat.00:03:32.12AndrewBut like outside of cybersecurity, what was the old hotness?00:03:32.46SeanBlack hat artist thing. Oh, I have no idea. I don't know.00:03:35.77AndrewYeah.00:03:36.17Seanah yeah um Yeah, yeah, yeah.00:03:37.85AndrewNot your job.00:03:41.49SeanNot my area of expertise. um That's cool. I didn't know you were taking Spanish lessons lesss that regularly. I had no idea.00:03:50.11AndrewYeah, although I actually haven't taken a lesson in like the past three weeks be...

In this episode, Sean gives a recap on shirt sales, his annual Korean BBQ dinner, and more from DEF CON. Andrew shares some feedback he got from the client project he's been working on, and dives into the early results he's seeing from running Google Ads for ChartJuice. Andrew reveals his latest mile times from his half marathon training, and the guys talk about how much impact you could make in congressional elections with some basic digital marketing chops. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...FigTree: Coming soon...For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.Transcript:00:00:00.75SeanWhat up, what up? Long time no see.00:00:02.71AndrewYeah, how's it going? Can't wait to hear all about Defcon.00:00:07.02SeanGood. I can't wait to tell you all about DEFCON. A little sniffly. Definitely have conflu.00:00:14.04AndrewConcrud.00:00:14.49SeanYeah, a couple friends. A couple friends I've also got in COVID. There's, I think, all that stuff.00:00:19.25AndrewOuch.00:00:20.33Seanum I'll test again later. So far, so good. But ah yeah, we'll see. um Yeah, yeah, it's been, it's been hectic.00:00:31.74SeanGot back yesterday at 5am because my plane got delayed, and that was brutal. But it's the first time I've ever used my priority pass for a lounge. So that was kind of cool. um But before we get into Defcon, what have you been up to?00:00:43.45Andrewpun What?00:00:45.64SeanWhat's been, what's been going on?00:00:47.21Andrewwhat No, no, no, no, no. We got to start with Defcon.00:00:48.83SeanOkay.00:00:49.58Andrewand Defcon is is the big news here.00:00:50.65SeanAll right, fine.00:00:51.69AndrewI've got i've got some some little tattoo stuff to talk about, but ah yeah no you I want to start with Defcon.00:00:54.82SeanOkay.00:00:58.31Andrewand00:00:58.87SeanAll right, okay, fine, fine, fine, fine. Defend was good, Black Hat was good, Black, I'll start with the Black Hat. I went to the, shout out to Lucas Nelson, and he handed me to the Investors and Innovators Summit. um So first I'm going to like a summit at Black Hat.00:01:14.64Seanum00:01:14.94AndrewHuh.00:01:15.56Seanah ah like I got to go that to that basically like for free which is cool and so I just decided not to pay for an expo pass this year terrible idea by the way like I really want to pay for an expo pass it's 800 bucks and like I don't really like it's not like I go for sales so I kind of just go to meet our clients but probably should have paid a hundred bucks to just go like like go to a booth00:01:25.56AndrewOh no.00:01:37.19AndrewWhy? Why do you say that?00:01:39.28SeanUm, I think I felt, okay, one, I think I felt a little bit of FOMO not seeing stuff at Black Hat and the expo floor. Um, I mean, in part didn't have like that much time to walk the floor.00:01:53.41SeanDefinitely met people outside of the expo floor. So it was fine overall. I think it was just felt very weird not to like go do the whole expo thing that I always done every year. Um,00:02:05.12AndrewYou all have never set up like a booth at Black Hat, have you?00:02:08.15SeanNo, not for us, only for our clients.00:02:08.79AndrewYeah.00:02:10.64Seanum But I think it's just like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we would never we would never like be black hat booth wise, that would be, actually, that would be very, very interesting.00:02:10.67AndrewYeah. That shit is expensive, right?00:02:18.97AndrewYeah.00:02:21.00SeanI don't think black hat would ever let us do that, now that I think of that.00:02:22.17AndrewOh really?00:02:24.51SeanI mean, we're not a security vendor, so it'd be very weird to do it.00:02:26.65AndrewHmm.00:02:29.87SeanI don't know, it'd be weird. i like That's not that's not like a terrible idea. actually it'd be very interesting i wonder if there's something we could do there but anyway we like uh uh i didn't get to wander it which means i didn't get to like i think i think one of the things i missed out on and what's kind of sad about it is i didn't get to get them i didn't get to go pick up merchandise that we made for our clients that they printed and that was probably the biggest thing i was bummed out about00:02:51.17AndrewHmm.00:02:56.29SeanUh, but the innovator summit was super cool.00:02:56.53AndrewThat's a bummer.00:02:59.57SeanUh, shout out to Mike Privet and Ross. Uh, you know, they were, they were both on a panel together. That was super good.00:03:04.65AndrewCool.00:03:06.02SeanUm, um, and that was fun. Def Con was Oh, so very fun. A lot of good pictures. We ah including me brought six people out this year.00:03:15.41AndrewTick.00:03:19.17Seanum More like extended team members rather than like team core team members. It's been kind of like extended team members slash friends basically coming to help.00:03:30.92SeanIt's just a lot cheaper than flying out our design staff um from from a like00:03:37.44AndrewOh, because so that design staff can keep like doing design work for clients.00:03:41.34Seandoing yeah yeah um yeah exactly um which is like i don't know it's something i like it's something it's been always the biggest issue of this like agency plus merchandise model right they're two separate businesses so flying out on...

Sean is exhausted because he has so many inbound emails from prospective clients he doesn't have time to answer them all. Meanwhile, Andrew is trying to buckle down and get Stripe built into ChartJuice so he can start advertising and collecting payments. Sean and Andrew talk about how the consulting project is going, and Sean has to rain Andrew in as he contemplates repositioning ChartJuice again. As a bonus, find out how fast Andrew can run a mile and why he needs to run faster. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...FigTree: Coming soon...For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.Transcript:00:00.90AndrewWhat's up, friend?00:00.81SeanNot so much. How are you?00:04.17AndrewGood, we haven't talked other than Slack in like two weeks.00:07.87SeanYeah. You've been traveling.00:11.38AndrewYeah.00:11.84SeanHow have your trips been multiple?00:14.99Andrewum Montana is fucking beautiful. Oh my god. um Glacier in particular is stunning. Was there for a friend's wedding. um And then I think right before that, my sister was in town visiting. Have we talked since then? I can't remember.00:34.15Seanwe talked i think i think the last time we talked was the day you i think you went to pick up your sister from the airport or yeah something like that yeah yes00:42.08AndrewOkay. Cool. Cool. Yeah. So, okay. Great. Time makes no sense, but that was the week before. And then there was a week. I think. I don't know. Anyway, my sister came to visit. That was a blast. It was great to see her. Got to meet her new boyfriend. So that was fun. And then went to Glacier for one of my best friend's weddings. His name is Alex. His now wife's name is also Alex. So that was very entertaining.01:15.17Andrewum We love her. We've known her for a long time. It's kind of the novelty is kind of worn off, to be honest, but but she is taking his name.01:21.51SeanGot it.01:24.95AndrewSo they are going to be Alex Drake and Alex Drake, which is like absurd. Um, but we did a lot of hiking, did some white water rafting. Um, I saw, uh, mountain goats and big horn sheep. Um, and yeah, Glacier is just absolutely stunning. I, it reminded me that like, there's so much of this country that I have not seen that I want to see. Um, so I think next year I might. Maddie and I might make it a point to do like some sort of national park road trip or something, but we'll see.02:04.04Seannice um i've always dreamed of just going and like driving to go cross-country trip in either like an rv or just with multiple motels and just driving around and staying like a like 52 weeks in 50 52 weeks in 52 states something like that and then you're right sorry it's been a long it's been a long since you've been gone it's been a war zone here02:18.26AndrewThere are 50 states, but02:31.01AndrewOh no, what's happening? Why are you so tired?02:36.01Seanum i count california as two states just for the record and porta rico just just before but i'm not yeah i am not smarter than a fifth grader for what it's worth so um anyway uh i don't know just like you02:43.80AndrewPuerto Rico should be a state, but yeah.02:55.44Seanand You know that thing where they're like, you'll know when you have product market fixed or bang on your door. It's like, have feeling like you have service market fit and people are banging on my door and we say yes to things. and We say no to some things, but like whenever, you know, just, we have a lot of clients and I don't have, we have.03:12.22AndrewI understand.03:17.00SeanBarely amount the amount of people to get all of it done with all the things that are going on.03:20.77AndrewYeah.03:23.63Seanum um03:26.14AndrewSo you're in, you're fully in one of the agency peaks where there's just like too much work and you're happy that there's too much work.03:34.68SeanYeah.03:36.60AndrewSo you're finally not stressed about like paying the bills and making ends meet, but instead that's replaced with doing the work and making sure the work is done to a high standard because, you know, when there's lots of work to go around, it's easy for things to slip through the cracks and yeah.03:42.32SeanRight.03:49.41SeanYeah. Yeah.03:52.74SeanYeah. But there's more money in our bank account than ever.03:54.51AndrewYeah.03:56.04SeanSo, you know, that's, that's really cool.03:59.49AndrewYeah, it really is.03:59.93SeanUm, yeah.04:00.84AndrewThis is the thing about agencies is it does feel like you're always trading one type of stress for another. It's either you're like, fuck, I need to find clients. Or it's like, fuck, I need to get this work done for clients. um04:13.50SeanYeah. I do really think like,04:18.39SeanLike I think I think creative agencies also like creative service providers are also an extra level of like because it's objectives right it's not like I have a friend who runs an MSP or an it's MSP sort of shop, but it's very like those that sort of work is very like oh you get the green checkmark because because the scanner no longer detects an issue so you're good, it's good to go.04:41.89AndrewYeah, the flip side is like people don't usually call us in the middle of the night because they're like design got hacked into.04:41.82Seanyou can like04:48.71SeanYou're right. You're right. You're right.04:50.45AndrewSo that's, that's like, Oh yeah, that's.04:50.52SeanWe do manage websites. We do. Weflo did go down the other day, and that was my nice slide blew the fuck up.04:54.91Andrewhu

Season 2: Episode 5In this episode Sean talks about being buried in client work at Miscreants and how to design trendy clothing that gets people hyped. Meanwhile, Andrew talks about making slow progress on ChartJuice and trying to fight the temptation to become an SEO content goblin. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...Cider: Coming soon...For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.Transcript:00:02.21SeanSo where are you up to? You're late.00:04.34AndrewUh, I was, I'm so behind on writing my newsletter for this month. Um,00:11.16SeanBecause you're not using AI to help you anymore.00:14.65AndrewDick.00:15.61SeanSorry, sorry.00:16.52AndrewUm, yeah, I just like, honestly I've been busy with, uh, with consulting work for somebody. I think that's, that's what I'm going to blame it on.00:26.47Seani it is his fault i would blame it on him as well he's made a lot of poor decisions recently we player00:34.31AndrewYeah, I've been busy with consulting work and then we were like, um we were up north for ah the fourth for a week. um And so there was like a day where I thought about trying to write it there. We had kind of a rainy day and I was like, I'm just going to fuck around on my phone and read a book instead.00:49.38SeanI, it is his fault.00:53.84Andrewum Which was a choice I don't really regret, but now I'm like,00:55.16SeanI would blame it on him as well. He's made a lot of poor decisions recently.00:59.72Andrewuh like two weeks behind getting a newsletter out so trying to trying to get a piece written about how I validated church use and like just how I got to the point where I was willing to make the investment in the initial MVP because when I say validated I don't know if the product is going to work yet we're a ways off from that but01:07.48SeanCool.01:24.03Andrewvalidated it enough to have confidence building an MVP.01:27.50SeanCool.01:27.60AndrewSo writing an essay about that and then ah need to put together like the newsletter portion with some links and stuff. But yeah, completely lost track of time. I did the thing I do where I like procrastinated for 30 minutes and then started writing again 30 minutes before our podcast and then looked up and it was like four twelve and we were supposed to start at four o'clock. So01:50.67SeanI do find that like that level of like crunch time is what really snaps me into flow real quick.01:55.08AndrewOh, absolutely.01:56.39SeanYeah. Yeah. I'm glad. I'm glad we could do that for you.02:01.80AndrewHonestly, like, that's part of why we wanted to start the podcast again, right?02:05.41SeanFor sure.02:05.71AndrewOr at least for me, I i needed, like, I need some social forcing functions to make me do shit.02:07.01SeanYeah.02:13.01SeanYeah. Yeah.02:14.19AndrewIf I have to give you an update every week, then I have to have an update every week.02:14.27Seanhundred02:20.36SeanYeah. I mean, like you tweeted out something about us writing and I was like, fuck. And I started writing. I haven't done it last week, but ah since like, since you tweeted about it, but it at least like made me attempt to put words to the paper for a couple of days. So that was pretty cool.02:38.93AndrewNice. Yeah, we got to actually we got to decide on an actual an actual bet or something. But I don't want to do that right the second because I have too many other things I'm trying to do right this second.02:46.30SeanYeah.02:52.07SeanFor sure.02:52.29AndrewI'm like, I don't want to take on a writing bet.02:54.63Seanah sure02:55.72AndrewMaybe maybe in a ah month or two.02:59.59Seanum How's your trip by the way, you went through a cabin.03:03.82AndrewYeah, Trip was great. um My girlfriend's aunt and uncle have this amazing place on Drummond Island, which is this cool island off the tip of the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. If anyone listening has never been to the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, which you probably haven't because most people haven't, it's like one of the most beautiful parts of the entire country. like i didn't really hear about it until I came here and moved to Detroit. And now it's one of my favorite places in the world. It's so fucking beautiful. The Great Lakes are like03:38.57Andrewturquoise blue. theres The trees feel like you're in the Pacific Northwest, um but the weather is way better than the Pacific Northwest. It's chilly enough in the middle of July that you need like a sweatshirt and jeans at night, um but it's warm enough to swim during the day.03:53.37Seanwhoa03:57.01AndrewIt's it's a magical place.03:57.65SeanWhoa.03:59.70Andrewum And I felt like a ah true digital nomad because I had I felt like I had perfected my my um transportable work setup. I had my laptop. my iPad, which they have made iPad mirroring so good and so easy now.04:17.24SeanYeah.04:18.21AndrewI haven't used it in years, but it's like it's great now.04:18.30SeanYeah.04:21.49AndrewAnd then I was using Starlink at Maddie's aunt and uncle's place. And the so the Wi-Fi was great. And I was just like, holy shit, with like that new Starlink Mini, you could have an amazing multi-screen set up that you could put in a backpack and it would be light as hell.04:42.70SeanI thought a lot about what you said about the Starlink this weekend, by th...

Season 2: Episode 4Did you know AI really loves the word delve? Sean and Andrew can't help starting the pod off with a little more AI talk. Then they get into Sean's new product he's working on. Meanwhile Andrew is putting aside his IDE and starting to shift his focus to marketing and selling ChartJuice. He talks about using Flow.club to focus and setting a goal of doing two hours of deep work every day. Sean asks Andrew if he would sell ChartJuice if someone made him an offer tomorrow. And Sean and Andrew talk about working together on a new client project!Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...Cider: Coming soon...For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.Transcript:00:00.77SeanWhat's up? What's up? How you doing?00:03.03AndrewNot bad. What happened to our theme music? I thought you were supposed to be coming in every week with a new theme song.00:09.35SeanSo, you know, it's actually a little bit harder to use. than i Yeah.00:14.64AndrewIsn't this the classic story of all of these AI tools is it's like, it seems great at first glance. And then you start trying to really use it for something and you start going, oh, this is so much work to get out of this, what I want to get out of it.00:28.82SeanYeah, 100%. I think like it doesn't have it doesn't have the levers I would want. you know I can't like dial a voice. I can't like switch. I have to use a prompt to change. like Do I want a male singer or a female singer? Do I want it to be you know louder here? I can't i can't say like I want to be louder here or different here. I feel like that.00:49.46AndrewYou need a cringe dial. Let me crank the cringe all the way down to zero.00:51.24SeanYeah. Yeah, i don't think i don't the thing is AI doesn't know what that is, which is crazy.00:55.60AndrewAI doesn't understand cringe. AI is by default cringe. That's that's why we still have jobs.00:58.85SeanYou know?01:01.89Seanum I've been looking at some other AI things and God.01:07.62Seanwhich AI really likes the word Delve. Did you know that?01:10.59AndrewOh, interesting. I have not noticed that.01:11.63SeanYeah. I think Paul Graham had a tweet or something to say like that's like the one of the biggest indicators that someone's seeing AI and they never saw it and then until I finally like um I was pulling a transcription out and then trying to get a summary just to see how any of that works and the amount of times it uses Delve is astounding and01:31.86AndrewThat's fascinating.01:32.63SeanThere's nothing I can't, i you know, once it's like a wrapper around whatever sort of AI tool, I can't tell it to, you know, at that point, I can't even change the prompt. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um.01:42.85AndrewBy the way, I really want to try out a couple of different transcription tools to see if any any of them can do a better job with our voices because Zincaster is not terrible, but it's a little bit of a mess.01:45.78SeanHmm.01:57.05SeanHmm.01:57.49AndrewI do think the, Post edit transcription is usually better.02:03.85SeanMm-hmm.02:04.19Andrewlike I see a pretty noticeable improvement from pre-edit and post-edit, so that's kind of interesting.02:06.81SeanMm-hmm.02:09.69AndrewBut I'm really curious, like what if Podscan actually has the best the best transcriptions?02:10.71SeanMaybe.02:14.46Seanmaybe02:15.85AndrewOr yeah know maybe Transistor's new transcription tool will be better because that's all they're doing?02:16.09SeanMaybe.02:21.50SeanYeah.02:25.24AndrewI don't know.02:25.29SeanIs there a job to be good at that?02:27.00AndrewYeah, I guess it's Zincaster's job to get that right as much as Transistor's job. but um It might even be the same person powering both.02:31.87SeanYeah. Yeah, that's true. Um,02:37.63AndrewIt might be the same tool under the hood.02:39.95Seanum02:40.45AndrewThat would be funny.02:40.75Seanso, so this podcast, uh, for a client, I was running it through, I tried swell AI by, I don't remember his last name, Cody something, um. The draft horse, now he's doing swell, um and I tried to script again. um Interestingly, I don't know what's going on with swell, but like so far, that's the best transcript I got back. um Yeah, so that's pretty good. um Okay, no, no, no, no.03:08.87AndrewI also saw every, do you know them? ah Nathan used to be Bashaw and now I think it's Basquez. He was at Product Hunt and then at Gimlet and um then I think co-founded every with03:25.58SeanCool.03:31.51AndrewDan Schipler, if that, I might have that name right. It's kind of interesting. They were doing bundled newsletters. So taking different newsletter creators and creating a unified brand for them to publish under and then offering a bundled price where the creators split the revenue and they're now taking.03:43.65SeanCool.03:47.29Seancool03:52.41Andrewthat bundle concept to a new extreme and launching software products. And the only way to pay for their software products is by buying a bundle, a subscription to every. So for one price, you get access to all of their newsletters and their software products. And their first one was Lex, an AI powered document editor where you could04:18.67SeanOkay. You use that, yeah.04:22.06AndrewI, yeah, I've used it a little bit. It's, it's pretty nifty. And then it se...

Season 2: Episode 3It's a Small Efforts Double Header! We were late getting this episode out, so we decided to go ahead and publish two weeks of episodes at once. In this episode Andrew is coming straight from a tattoo session, and talks about fighting bugs with ChartJuice. Meanwhile, Sean has gotten over 300 APPLICATIONS to his open job post, almost all from Dribbble. And he previews the consumer SaaS/community he's building on the side. Andrew and Sean discuss the strategy behind the new ConvertKit rebrand, and finally debate whether AI-generated book notes can be a good growth strategy for Andrew's personal blog.Differences between serverless functions and edge functions according to Claude:Execution Location: Serverless functions run on the cloud provider's servers centralized in large data centers, while edge functions run on edge servers distributed across multiple locations closer to the user.Latency: Edge functions have lower latency compared to serverless functions due to their proximity to the user.Scalability and resource constraints: Serverless functions scale automatically based on demand, while edge functions have a more limited scalability. Edge servers generally have less compute power and storage compared to cloud servers.Use Cases: Serverless functions are better suited for compute-intensive tasks, while edge functions are more efficient for data processing and content delivery near the user.Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.Transcript:00:00:00.69SeanWhat's up?00:00:02.02AndrewNot much, just got back from a little tattoo session, got some fresh ink.00:00:06.48SeanVery cool. What did what you get?00:00:08.97AndrewUh, got a piece of flash. So I was at a fundraiser for, um, a friend's, a friend was organizing the fundraiser. He's part of this group called prism, um, that raises money to support, uh, GSAs in schools, which used to stand for gay straight alliances.00:00:19.32SeanCool.00:00:27.96AndrewNow I think stand for gender sexuality alliances.00:00:31.21SeanOkay.00:00:31.48AndrewUm, so he's part of this group prism. They were doing a fundraiser and they had a raffle as part of the fundraiser.00:00:38.18SeanHmm.00:00:38.43AndrewAnd they were raffling off three flash tattoos. Um, so it was like a design and you could put. ticket in, and if you won, you would get that tattoo. And um I like two of them. And so I put a ticket in each one and was like, well, let fate decide. And I got picked. And so I went and got this cool vase with, it's like kind of an abstract vase with monstera leaves sticking out.00:01:04.13SeanYeah.00:01:06.90AndrewAnd it's my first leg tattoo, got it on my thigh. um it will be very visible when I wear shorts.00:01:14.20SeanHell yeah.00:01:14.51Andrewum So, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.00:01:15.18SeanFive inch the blue velvet shorts.00:01:18.18AndrewWhen I wear my short shorts, which is all I wear.00:01:19.60SeanNice.00:01:20.58AndrewSo, um yeah, I'm pretty into it.00:01:20.75SeanNice.00:01:23.87AndrewIt was cool. This was my first, I guess it was my second flash tattoo. um But the artist, she was great. Her name was Ali Gostella, I think. Super chill, super welcoming, had a great time, made the experience fantastic.00:01:40.32SeanHmm.00:01:41.67AndrewAnd one of the cool parts was she really was stoked about this design, which was so much fun because she was having fun tattooing it and was really hyped and excited about it. And that made it more fun and made me more excited about getting it. And so it was just like just good energy.00:01:55.53SeanNice.00:01:58.07SeanI like it. Congrats.00:01:59.08AndrewYeah.00:01:59.96SeanYeah, congrats on waiting.00:02:01.33AndrewThanks. I'm I'm stoked. i'm I'm really excited about it.00:02:04.48SeanCool.00:02:04.66AndrewI will show you after the podcast because it will not get podcast content.00:02:08.82SeanThat's true. That's true. We are, we are not a video podcast yet. We tried, but yeah.00:02:13.67AndrewWe can be. I guess whenever we just got to commit to doing another thing, which is not like us.00:02:18.46SeanYeah.00:02:21.08AndrewWell, and is also like us. You know what I mean?00:02:23.70SeanYeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. For sure.00:02:26.97AndrewYeah. So what's up with you?00:02:29.04SeanUm, last week was brutal. Last week was a couple, a couple of our folks are out on like PTO and then some folks got sick.00:02:31.81AndrewYeah.00:02:36.01SeanUm, uh, yeah. Uh, so I didn't sleep much and that was, that was exciting, but we're back to it.00:02:44.58AndrewOh, that's rough.00:02:45.14SeanYou know, I'm on eight hours, so extra energetic today. Um, I mean, Oh,00:02:52.52AndrewHow is hiring going?00:02:55.23Seandribble is not dead.00:02:56.62AndrewOh, really?00:02:56.72Seandribble not that hot take dribble like yeah yeah hiring our type form00:03:00.41AndrewFor hiring designers specifically? Yeah.00:03:06.01SeanSo we were going to do we're going to do like an online, we're going to put a form on our website at first and then I was like, I don't i ...

Season 2: Episode 2It's a Small Efforts Double Header! We were late getting this episode out, so we decided to go ahead and publish two weeks of episodes at once. In this episode Andrew talks about quietly pushing ChartJuice live, and raves about his new favorite podcast. Meanwhile Sean drops some knowledge about the intricacies of swag supply chains, and the guys discuss the trap of being an expert beginner vs a true expert. Finally, Sean talk about a leadership retreat he's going on soon. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.Transcript:00:00.00Sean SunYeah, hey doing sorry late.00:00.64AndrewAll good man I've just been over here sipping on my in Zony Happy as can be.00:06.41Sean SunAh, there you good there Good How's your week been. What's you been up to.00:13.49AndrewUm, not a bad week. Um, let's see I haven't been hella productive this week but I've been making steady progress. So um.00:29.64AndrewThink this happened after last week's pod. Um, so I sent out chart juice for feedback to a small group of friends you um, awesome price Greg um, handful of people and.00:49.48AndrewMy friends are super generous and so a bunch of people took the time to create an account and give me some feedback and a lot of feedback I got was like hey this is cool. Um, you know Austin understandably spent a bunch time on the ux and was like hey you know you should left a line. Your text anytime you have more than a line or two because it becomes harder to read when it's center aligned and I was like dope didn't know that that's a really helpful rule of thumb. Thanks for telling me um and then like Greg um in very Greg fashion pointed out. Hey on the signup form you should really have a couple of statements about the value props and like what people are going to get out of this to help encourage them to finish the signup process which is very Greg always thinking from the perspective of the user and thinking about like how do we optimize this. Um, so that was super helpful. My friend Kevin who is one of the original partners in crit and a super talented engineer took a very engineer's approach to it and he was like hey just so you know if you put in a ah. Width of greater than a hundred thousand pixels it breaks and I was like cool I don't care and like he obviously knew I wouldn't care but you know took took a very engineer approach to it and.02:09.31Sean SunYeah, yeah.02:19.44Sean SunUm, yeah.02:21.86AndrewAh, like looked for the edge cases the weird extreme edge cases. The other one was like if you add more than 21 elements to a pie chart then the legend gets really wonky like create. Um, so.02:39.40Sean SunI think that's a hold on I just want to point out I don't think I think that's a feature not a bug I think no one should be adding 21 elements to a pie chart like a pizza doesn't have 21 slices yeah um02:41.61AndrewYeah.02:49.77AndrewI Love it? Yeah yeah, yeah, we we intentionally make your chart look like shit past a certain point because like why stop.02:56.87Sean SunRight? right? Exactly There's a hidden feature that if you make it look like it'll all turn brown and.03:03.80AndrewI mean the good thing to do would be if you use more than 8 elements or something in your pie chart. We just automatically start combining the smallest ones that would be nifty but um, but my favorite piece of advice came from my friend ramy um, who is an indie hacker.03:13.12Sean SunUm.03:21.69AndrewUm, based out of the Uk and repeat founder has a few successful small products under his belt and his advice was basically good enough ship it and I was like that's you're so fucking right? so.03:33.50Sean SunNice.03:41.60AndrewUm, yeah, the first half of this week was shipping it so chart juice is now technically live I'm calling it a soft launch because I haven't really talked about it being live much at all yet I'm not being super public about it. Um I just linked up.03:46.26Sean SunUm, okay, um.04:00.70AndrewThe buttons on the marketing website to the actual app so that you can get to the app from the marketing website and then I made some small updates yesterday to the marketing website adding screenshots and a little bit more information about how it how it works. To try to make it a little bit clear what the product does because I had several people like hit the marketing website and go so is this like chart Js for emails and I was like I mean kind of but it's like a layer above that. Um, so I added some some screenshots and like a little bit more information without. While trying not to change too much because I still want to test kind of that original marketing copy and see how well it works. Um, but yeah, so chart juice is now live I am spending the rest of this week focused on trying to get billing working. Um, so i.04:45.97Sean SunUm, right.04:57.83AndrewIf you go sign up for an account right now it is free until I get billing implemented um and once I get billing implemented I'll I'll find some way to grandfather in any existing accounts with like an extra long free trial Probably um.05:11.20Sean SunRight? right? So Andrew's giving away lifetime access to anyone who signs up right now.05:16.66AndrewAndrew's giving away short to your mas if your life only you know continues for another three or four weeks then yeah lifetime access.05:25.31Sean SunIf you plan on dying soon. Sign up for George ah, that's the ad there you go is converting ad.05:31.90AndrewAh, perfect ship it so working on getting billing um, integrated which I've just been dragging my feet a little bit. It's just boring. It's like it's standard. Ah. Stuff I Just got to hook up some webhooks and Yada Yada Um, and then the other thing I need to do that's kind of important is I need to actually test using our embed code in a transactional email which is like somewhat. Hard to do since I don't have an existing Saas product with existing data. Um, So yeah, I'll just I'll probably just fudge the data. But um I need to send out some test emails. Um, and then I want to record a demo video of like the entire end-to-end process.06:24.35Sean SunRight...

Andrew and Sean are back for Season 2! In Season 2 they'll get transparent about the highs and lows of building their businesses (with plenty of goofing around too). Same concept, new businesses. In this episode we recap WHERE THE HELL WE'VE BEEN FOR TWO YEARS. Plus we talk about the projects we're working on now, how to market and validate Andrew's new startup, and Sean's search for founder friends.  Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.Transcript:00:00.73SeanAll right? don't scream this time. Maybe I'll cut that front part out. Um, okay, take 4 episode 1 season 2 small efforts like no see oh yeah, me too.00:11.35AndrewAh, but what's up man Glad to be back. Ah back on the pod with you.00:18.76SeanToo I'm excited to be doing this again. It's been a fun 6 ones of a dry run. Um, so ah.00:22.92AndrewIt wouldn't be us if we didn't record for six months and then finally describe decide to scrap all of those recordings and just say fuck it. Let's go live or as close to live as we can get.00:32.53SeanYeah, yeah, yeah, it's literally how I've built the michigans website every single iteration actually I spent months on it and then I'm like fuck. And I just do it in the black in my hotel room right? before blackhead starts in a day like yeah, good enough I don't care if it's not perfect. Um, what's been going on. Why have we disappeared what happened you know what happened to season 1 I'm sure everyone wants to know.01:02.54AndrewAh, yeah, um, yeah, it's been 2 years almost to the day like pretty close to it. So um, we were running the podcast before and had set it up in a way to be like.01:05.75SeanOur 11 listeners.01:22.00AndrewFairly highly highly produced and um in a way that required as little involvement from us after recording as possible so we had an awesome producer and an editing team who would take care of everything for us. Um, but that also meant it was. A little bit expensive to create um and then I went and sold my business and that meant that half of our funding disappeared. So I sold crit almost two years ago exactly um, sold the company to.01:47.45SeanHell yeah, a girl. Yeah, he did.01:58.77AndrewOf our longtime clients grayyno which was an awesome experience. I still haven't really written about the experience of going through this sale process. It might be hard to do now I've I'm sure I've already forgotten a lot. Um, but it was it was a really. Really fascinating experience to go through I think our sale was really pretty easy and pretty fast compared to a lot of people because we already knew each other really well um, and structured it in a way that that due diligence was pretty simple. So um, yeah, sold crit two years ago02:23.90SeanA 502:36.57AndrewThen went to work at graynoy for a year um so learned a ton in that time about security and technology and what it's like to be part of a larger team as hilarious as it is a 50 person team is like by far the biggest team I'd ever been a part of.02:53.75SeanYeah.02:55.78AndrewUm, and ah learned about management and it was like a year of speed learning. Um, it was really interesting. Had a lot of fun. Um, and then ultimately got fired which was kind of. Ah, shock and kind of not a shock. Um, ultimately I think it just wasn't as good a fit on either side as either of us were were hoping for um, still have a ton of friends there and still am rooting for them all to be successful. Um, you know it's funny I've mentioned that I got fired to. Entrepreneur friends and to like non-onpreneur friends and non-onreneur friends are generally like oh my god are you? okay like what's ah, what's wrong. What can I do to help and then all my entrepreneur friends are like yeah I kind of expected that we're just ah.03:46.18SeanYeah, yeah, it makes sense.03:52.10AndrewI Guess once you're like an entrepreneur through in through you kind of become unhireable but not in the way you thought just unhireable in the sense that like you become a bad employee or don't want to don't want to work for anyone? Um, so um.03:56.64SeanUm, yeah, yeah.04:00.33SeanYeah, yeah.04:10.71AndrewYeah, shocking and not a shock. Um, but ultimately like 2 really good things came out of bad experience which were um one when I was at crit my fear. The thing that kept me up at night. Was often this idea of like what if our clients all disappear and we run out of money and we have to lay off the entire team that was like the failure mode that that was constantly eating away at me constantly like this pit of stress in the middle of my stomach. Um, and then once I sold the company and joined grey noise. Thought that fear would go away. It didn't it just morphed and the new fear. The new failure mode was what if I get fired. Um, and so when I ultimately did it was this kind of positive forcing function to face this deep fear of failure that I had. Um, and you know went through it and was like oh shit I'm okay and the people around me don't actually think any worse of me. In fact, they all are being super supportive and kind and like are very understanding and and then I had time to make a podcast to get.05:20.70SeanSo yeah, and then you had time to do a podcast again. So it's been great.05:28.17AndrewUm, and and that actually was the second positive thing. So the the second really positive thing was that it gave me the nudge to take a long extended sabbatical. Um, so after that I went and fulfilled a lifelong dream and walked across Spain on the camino de santiago. Um. Spent two months over in Europe um, that was incredible I've written about that on my on my website a little bithitteraskins dot com um, and then I I came back from that and had time to sit down and just think about what I really wanted to do and um. Decided that I wanted to get back into startups and wanted to try to build a new product and do do it the way that I had always wanted to do it which was bootstrapped calm slow growth. Um, and ah, you know, but do something that. You know, high margin. Um, try to basically build my perfect job. My dream job my my dream business. Um, so I started working on ad at the beginning of this year worked with a partner for a little while who um, ultimately had to step away for some personal reasons. Um. Which then launched me into the process of learning to code again which has been really cool. Um, kind of surprised myself with how much I have enjoyed that and liked that. Um and so that was a few months ago that I I started learning to code and and building the product.07:05.74AndrewMyself and I'm now ah at a point where I've got a functional prototype and I'm you know probably going to be launching in a week or 2 probably 2 two weeks would be my guess. So um, yeah.07:19.46SeanI Hell yeah.07:24.27AndrewLast time we recorded I was running an agency and now I am getting ready to launch a new Saas company. So yeah, and so now that's ah now we're on season 2 Um, so yeah, tell me tell me ah tell me and tell our 3 listeners.07:29.51SeanYeah, act...

(0:24) This is officially a rock climbing podcast(8:15) Andrew and Sean's gardens have attracted guests(12:59) Sean lowkey needs another break(25:10) Miscreants is doing a collection drop at DEFCON(29:56) Rebranding is like creating a religion but without Kool-Aid Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:27) There’s a parallel universe where Andrew’s life revolves around photography(8:34) Sean is suspicious as hell(17:31) The real reason why so many CEOs are super fucking into meditation(26:31) Andrew and Sean’s bi-weekly book club chat(34:29) Your lawyer career doesn’t mean shit if you can’t work on your streetwear brand Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Sublime Security: https://sublimesecurity.com/ Email Rep IO: https://emailrep.io/ Ted at Sentinel IPS: @tedgruenloh Margins by Ranjan Roy and Can Duruk: https://www.readmargins.com/ Leave Me Alone: https://leavemealone.app/ SparkToro: https://sparktoro.com/ Melissa Perri’s book: Escaping the Build Trap: How Effective Product Management Creates Real Value Bionic reading: https://bionic-reading.com/ For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:25) The difference between Andrew and Sean is that Sean is extra delusional (6:27) Sales feels like throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks (17:23) Either the channels depend on the day, or different channels work during different times(24:32) Giving constraints encourages creativity, not stifles it(34:21) Andrew and Sean are both traveling and bad at bowling Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Traction: https://www.amazon.com/Traction-Get-Grip-Your-Business/dp/1936661837For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:22) Getting experience is all about putting in the reps(9:09) It’s easy judging a designer by their portfolio. A PM by their resume? Not so much.(18:58) It’s mad hard building a leadership team(27:12) Commission vs. Salary: We’re undecided on which one’s better(37:03) If Krit didn’t exist, Andrew would definitely have an SEO marketing agency Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Pyramid of Success: http://www.coachwooden.com/pyramid-of-success Traction: https://www.amazon.com/Traction-Get-Grip-Your-Business/dp/1936661837 Entreprenurial Operation System: https://www.eosworldwide.com/ Luke Stephens: @hakluke HackerContent: https://hackercontent.com/ For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:22) Sean was recently diagnosed with ADHD, and that’s OK(5:58) I’m not undisciplined, mom—I’m just wired differently (10:16) Wages as a CEO: How much should you compensate yourself?(20:21) Stocks are steady, but business is more rewarding(26:53) Sometimes, it’s the stupid risks that pay off (so go sponsor that esports team)(30:36) Personal note: Rest in peace, Mike Murray Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Atonic Habits: https://jamesclear.com/atomic-habits Bureau of Digital 2022 Salary Guide: https://bureauofdigital.com/2022-salary-guide Mike Murray: @mmurray Organizing Solutions for People with ADHD: https://www.amazon.com/Organizing-Solutions-People-Revised-Updated/dp/1592335128 Pilot’s 2021 Founder Salary Report: https://pilot.com/blog/2021-pilot-founder-salary-report For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:27) It’s good to have a playbook in case you get hit by a bus tomorrow(6:19) You can’t have a great process if you don’t iterate or communicate(11:31) The more granular you get, the more you get bogged down by the rules(18:14) Awesome employees + no rules = chaos(23:17) The client does have the final decision, but it’s sad if you just act like a waiter(33:24) Miscreants don’t sponsor losers Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Maker’s Pace: https://anchor.fm/makers-pace/ For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:27) The Tale of Two Founders: the Technical One and the Sales and Marketing One(6:58) Sean is Andrew’s new therapist(13:39) Letting go of your Legos is harder than it looks(17:48) Hot Take: Social media memers don’t make for good marketing directors(23:32) Sean is like a laptop with too many Chrome tabs open: constantly getting drained(29:56) Relinquishing Perfectionism: It’s not that their version is worse—it’s just different(35:40) Miscreants is now an eSports sponsorThanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Productive Flourishing: https://www.productiveflourishing.com/ For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:27) Andrew got roped into volunteering with a local high school robotics team(4:12) It’s mad hard to hire a product designer(10:59) One does not simply get hired because one uses hamburger menus(20:22) There’s always a weird rift between international and domestic employees(28:38) How do you keep your employees happy when you can’t give them a ping pong table?(31:38) You can’t pay someone a shit salary just because they’re in Mexico(40:44) Hiring People: It’s like a transaction, so don’t be shitty Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Andrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:27) Andrew got his first snow boots ever, and Sean is terrified of surfboarding(4:36) Sean wishes he had an office-office, and Andrew's looking to hire a product designer(10:14) Andrew’s new pitch: a low-cost, automated recruiting service with a flat fee(19:58) There are many great online job boards out there, but Ziprecruiter is not one of them(25:34) Coinbase's Super Bowl ad was a super clever campaign(30:02) Andrew and Sean play a game using Krit's data on cybersecurity product names(40:07) Sean’s new self-care regime: breathwork(45:32) It's hard to know just how many people you should hire(51:48) You can't build a business on something people don't want or don't know that they need Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Pallet: https://www.pallet.com/ Superpath: https://jobs.superpath.co/ Krit’s cyber security product names analysis article:  ​https://www.krit.com/blog/cybersecurity-product-names ​For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:27) Andrew’s never been to Disney World, and Sean’s surrounded by cat owners(5:18) Domain names are like gym memberships: you should take them seriously(10:38) People are scrambling to figure out how to close that lead gap, and that’s fair(15:40) A less boring alternative to white papers: interactive microsites(19:48) No time for microsites? Start a movement with other companies(24:33) What’s better than hosting competitions? Free swag.(28:19) Everyone loves free stuff—including existing customers(31:59) One does not simply close the lead gap by making marketing events Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Label Time: https://label-time.com/ Minimum Viable Secure Product: https://mvsp.dev/ Trace Labs: https://www.tracelabs.org/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:25) Andrew and Sean are going to play a game(2:57) Microcopy: the little bits of texts that can make a huge splash(7:48) Accessibility: it’s just good design(10:18) Andrew wants tooltip walk-throughs to burn in Hell(14:05) Not all product analytics is created equally(20:03) Why do people have a customer support robot when it takes hours to get a response?(23:19) Documentation is more scalable than customer support, but most people suck at it(32:47) Andrew’s quick correction Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Growth.Design: https://growth.design/ Samuel Hulick’s User Onboarding: https://www.useronboard.com/ Parallax tool: https://www.getparallax.com/ For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:27) Andrew hopes he's resilient to SAD because he has plenty of other mental anguish(3:29) Culture and Business: Only having awesome culture doesn't put food on the table(15:58) Miscreants just launched three freaking projects back to back(19:09) Appealing to Emotions 101: Emphasize with pain(21:33) If you think figuring out your niche is hard, try finding someone else's(29:15) Standing out in a Commoditized Industry: Specifically show what you do(38:07) Krit and Miscreant's 2022 goals: Less chaos, more focus Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew's Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Andrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean's Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:27) Running an agency is like leading geese while not knowing where you're going(5:45) Holidays While Remote: Having fun traditional office stuff is hard(9:11) Miscreants’ Black Friday merch sales were so high that Sean became a folding master(11:56) The hardest part of having a newsletter is making it(15:05) Krit learned some interesting things from testing their design audit process(19:30) And Miscreants is launching a YouTube channel(23:55) Andrew and Sean might share an Airbnb for RSA(26:43) If Greg's happy, Andrew's happy(29:30) Andrew and Sean and the future of the pod Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Krit’s InfoSec VC list: https://www.krit.com/infosec-vcs Krit’s Product People Interview with Haroon Meer: https://www.krit.com/blog/sweating-the-small-stuff-with-haroon-meer-founder-of-thinkst-canary Malcolm Gladwell’s book: https://www.amazon.com/Blink-Power-Thinking-Without/dp/0316010669 Mike Monnik’s Infosec Black Friday List: https://github.com/0x90n/InfoSec-Black-Friday For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:27) Krit (sort of) got hacked (7:21) One does not simply tell employees and clients that one got hacked(13:23) Two Types of Recruiters: Those who “spam the shit out of everybody,” and those who build relationships(18:31) “Holidays are tough”(23:47) It’s hard juggling days off while pushing against stagnation(26:54) Selling butts in a seat is easier when you have a smaller team(30:27) Making Playbooks: Is it better to make it simple than have all the context in the world?(34:44) Krit just hit a major milestone!(39:37) Sean’s new clothing line is out(45:04) Andrew’s talking to a social media manager, and Sean’s trying to do a content marketing push in a newsletter format  Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Miscreants’ new clothing line (Away from Keyboard): https://shopmiscreants.com/collections/away-from-keyboard-2021 For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:27) Andrew, Sean, and another Andrew(7:24) Getting ahold of the people you want and don't want to get to(11:30) Crossing the chasm: Getting rid of collection bias and positioning yourself better(16:15) Leading people who work for the people who work for you (20:15) The Difference Between Therapists and Executive Coaches: One tells you to shut up and suck it up(23:09) Values vs principles(32:02) Andrew Morris's goal used to be to sell for $30M. Given that GreyNoise is valued at more than $30M today what are his goals now?(40:34) Andrew and Andrew have a nuclear, mutually-assured destructive friendship (46:48) Andrew and Andrew and their startups that never started up(53:52) GreyNoise used to be the world's most inefficient musical instrument(57:47) Being in school is hard, but dropping out is even harder(1:06:21) Standing out in the Old-Boys-in-a-Suit Club: How to get noticed(1:17:49) Working Sustainably: How not to burn out(1:24:52) Sean asks a very important question, and Andrew embarrasses Andrew Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew's Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean's Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/GreyNoise: https://www.greynoise.io/ Andrew Morris's Twitter: @Andrew___MorrisFor more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/. 

(0:27) Andrew has a cat named Stevie Nicks, and Sean’s cold and stressed in LA(3:17) Krit has officially launched one of its non-security clients(5:47) Sean’s New Pitch: Soundtracks based on interviews(8:27) Remixing and Repurposing Old Content: Why build from scratch when you have a foundation?(11:22) Running Remotely: How do you make your company more transparent internally?(16:50) Sean might be hiring another PM!(17:59) Speed: How fast is too fast? (23:58) The Secret Key to Speed: Managing your client’s perception(29:18) Selling full-time equivalents is similar to selling timeshares of someone(36:56) Project management is mad important, and so is billing for it(44:48) Building structure in your org is like building a productThanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Koshercart: https://kosherkart.com/Krit’s interview with Jose Nazario: https://www.krit.com/blog/finding-signal-in-unstructured-data-with-jose-nazarioLatacora: https://www.latacora.com/ For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:21) The Yin and Yang of Running an Agency: How much can you control?(7:42) LinkedIn Marketing is free game(11:21) Onboarding Plans: Unexpectedly hard to develop(18:01) Andrew and Sean have a graveyard for domain names of projects they’ve abandoned(25:30) Some projects are very, very dead(30:57) And some were shot dead before they took off(35:04) You can’t expect prototype speed past the prototype stage(37:41) Development and Marketing: When do you go to the next stage?(41:12) Swag Ideas for Cons: Animal Crossing clothes and other virtual swag(45:17) The Miscreant and Krit Hackathon: Coming soon to a DefCon near you(52:12) Our Small EffortsThanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing.Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Threat Intelligent extension: https://threatintelligent.io/ Product People's first post: https://www.krit.com/blog/finding-signal-in-unstructured-data-with-jose-nazarioFor more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:29) Andrew’s cat, Po’ Boy’s, new friend: a cat named Danger (work-in-title)(2:49) ​​Security Companies: Why so many ‘S’ names?(8:12) Hiring Notice: Sean’s still looking for a Project Manager(10:56) Hiring Notice: So, Sean’s really looking for a Producer/Project Manager(14:36) Getting referrals for Design People from Tech People isn’t the greatest(17:05) Andrew and Sean really appreciate Mike Privette (Return on Security)(22:02) Broadening Horizons: When do you work with people outside your niche?(26:41) Having an outside perspective in an industry isn’t always a bad thing(30:37) Hot Take: Attribution in marketing isn’t very useful(35:13) Our Small EffortsThanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Bureau of Digital: https://bureauofdigital.com/ Home Repair Lab: https://www.homerepairlab.com/ Mike Privette: @mikepsecuriteeRethink: https://rethinkcanada.com/ Return on Security: https://www.returnonsecurity.com/  For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:27) Irvine's sunsets are crazy and Detroit's EDM scene is wild(4:50) ​​Andrew's kicking off his interview series Product People(7:41) Sean is a fanboy of Return on Security(10:20) It's not all about the VC outreach(12:19) Product Management is such a weird industry(19:50) There aren't many good online security communities for intermediates(23:47) There's a difference between having a fan base and having a community(29:01) Sean hypothesizes the history between lawyers and legal pads(31:52) Making or finding the perfect feedback tool: easier said than done(36:42) Our Small EffortsThanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing.Shoutouts:Information on Peerlyst - https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/peerlystProduct People: https://www.krit.com/newsletterReturn on Security: https://www.returnonsecurity.com/ User Snap: https://usersnap.com/ 0x00sec - https://0x00sec.org/ Links:Andrew's Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean's Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:27) Laptops and remote work go hand in hand(3:27) But Sean and Andrew are not about that digital nomad life(6:10) Setting the right goals is a constant struggle(8:24) Andrew's therapist is a surprisingly awesome business coach(11:35) Time Measurement: Think about your to-dos, but don't go super, super in detail(14:03) Andrew shares some of his goals(19:24) Life with a Co-Founder: No shared values? Good luck(24:49) Success is success(28:56) Sean’s latest pitch: A one-stop-shop service for all things swag(34:22) Sean drops some knowledge on getting connected with VCs(42:52) Our Small EffortsThanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:- Andrew's Twitter: @AndrewAskins- Andrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/- Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/- Krit: https://www.krit.com/ - Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ - Sean's Twitter: @seanqsun- Hatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/ For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:27) Sean doesn't know how to pronounce "Michelob"(1:12) Andrew and Sean’s Relationship: It’s been a long two years, man(4:37) Andrew and Sean are pretty much risking their lives to be at DEF CON(14:30) It can be mad hard to sell B2B tech products(17:57) Connections in Security: It can help with even the most unrelated things(20:43) Choosing Your Company’s Differentiator: Better data and better AI is not the answer(24:15) Choosing Your Company’s Differentiator: Less bad guy, more on making jobs easier(25:59) Reiterating pain points is becoming a pain point(28:48) Tool fatigue: Bundling is not the answer(33:13) Krit and Miscreants are lowkey rivals (but friendly ones)(38:59) In a room full of potential, it’s super important to know your strengths and weaknesses(42:15) It’s important to know where you draw the line with product strategy(49:19) Our Small EffortsThanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew's Twitter: @AndrewAskinsKrit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean's Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Def Con: https://defcon.org/ Krit’s Article on InfoSec Acronyms: https://www.krit.com/blog/infosec-acronyms-explained For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

(0:25) Getting out of a Funk: It's hard to stop feeling scattered(8:17) Zoom fatigue is real(9:22) Andrew's gotten really into rock climbing recently(13:12) Sean tries to pitch liquid chalk(16:28) Tensions Within Security Twitter: We need to express more empathy(20:15) The beverage and security industries are kinda related(23:34) Andrew pitches DART (working title)(30:02) There's surprising a lot of security content on TikTok(33:31) Media and Paid Ads: it's weird to get unrelated ads on unrelated topics(36:47) Our Small EffortsThanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing. Links:Andrew's Twitter: @AndrewAskinsHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean's Twitter: @seanqsunShubs's (@infosec_au) Tweet: https://twitter.com/infosec_au/status/1417646439434317829 For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.