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Engaging Local Government Leaders (ELGL)
GovLove is a podcast about the people, policies and profession of local government. From Mayors and City Managers to interns and everyone in between, we interview the people making a difference in their communities to learn about the great work being done at the local level. GovLove is brought to you by Engaging Local Government Leaders (ELGL).
#549 Facilitating Public Deliberation with Nicole Hunter and Keith Greaves
Behind the scenes of public deliberation. Two guests joined the podcast to talk about their book, Facilitating Deliberation - A Practical Guide. Nicole Hunter, Co-Founder & Managing Director at MosaicLab, and Keith Greaves, Co-Founder & Director at MosaicLab, discussed core concepts, processes, and meeting formats for deliberation. They also provide strategies for addressing unconscious bias and polarization. Host: Kirsten Wyatt
55:2023/12/2022
#548 Using Data to Prevent Homelessness with John Littlemore and Helen Sunderland
Practical data to reduce homelessness. Two guests joined the podcast to talk about how they are using data to prevent homelessness. John Littlemore, Head of Housing & Community Service at the Maidstone Borough Council, and Helen Sunderland, a Partner of Local Public Services at EY Consulting, discussed their data-driven preventative approach to homelessness, indicators of risk, and success stories in reducing homelessness. Host: Lauren Palmer
40:5916/12/2022
#547 Resilience and Sustainability in Charleston, SC with Dale Morris and Katie McKain
Planning for a safer and greener Charleston. Two guests joined the podcast to talk about how the City of Charleston, South Carolina has worked to make the city more resilient and sustainable. Dale Morris, Chief Resilience Officer, and Katie McKain, Director of Sustainability & Deputy Resilience Officer, discussed the differences between sustainability and resiliency, the City's All Hazards Vulnerability & Risk Assessment Plan, and regional partnerships. Host: Ben Kittelson
55:3809/12/2022
#546 Local Government Engagement with Warren Kagarise, King County, WA
Better engaging residents. Warren Kagarise, Digital Engagement Manager for the King County, Washington, returned to the podcast to talk about engagement strategies in local government. He shared the pros and cons of working full-time remote, how local governments can better engage their residents, and what he hopes to accomplish on the ELGL Board of Directors. Host: Alyssa Dinberg
46:3602/12/2022
#545 Managing Phoenix with Jeff Barton, Phoenix, AZ
Leading the largest council-manager government. Jeff Barton, City Manager for the City of Phoenix, Arizona, joined the podcast to talk about his first year on the job as a City Manager. He discussed his career path with the City, which began as an Auditor, and how he advanced in the organization. He also shared the work behind a City Manager's dashboard, the City's new bond program, and shaping organizational culture. Host: Ben Kittelson
48:0718/11/2022
#544 Advancing Data in Local Government with Ruth Puttick, Lauren Su, & Lisa Mae Fiedler
Improving data-driven efforts. Three guests joined the podcast to discuss their research and insight into the advancement of data in local government. They shared their new definition of data-driven local government and the methodology of their research. Ruth Puttick is a Senior Policy Advisor for the Open Innovation Team. Lauren Su is the Director of Certification for What Works Cities. Lisa Mae Fiedler is the Acting Manager of Data and Analytics at the Metropolitan Transportation Authority. Host: Toney Thompson
50:0511/11/2022
#543 From Librarian to City Manager with Abigail Elder, Hood River, OR
Books to Boardroom. Abigail Elder, City Manager for the City of Hood River, Oregon, joined the podcast to talk about her first year on the job as a City Manager. She detailed her career path in local government, which started as a librarian. She also shared what she is working on including affordable housing, improving infrastructure, and homelessness. Host: Ben Kittelson
52:5904/11/2022
#542 Reducing Crime in Danville, VA with Chief Scott Booth and Robert David
Bigger than black and blue. Two guests joined the podcast to talk about how the City of Danville, Virginia has worked to reduce violent crime. Scott Booth, Chief of Police, and Robert David, Youth and Gang Violence Coordinator, discussed the challenges Danville faced when they came to the City, engaging with the community, and the reforms and initiatives they implemented. They shared the City's approach to community policing and Project Imagine, an intervention program for at-risk and gang affiliated youth. Host: Ben Kittelson
47:1228/10/2022
#541 Recruitment for Local Government Careers with Hannah Lipman and Moses Amidei
Two guests joined the podcast to talk about recruiting for local government. Hannah Lipman, the Assistant Village Manager for the Village of Tinley Park, IL, and Moses Amidei, Village Administrator for the Village of Forest Park, IL, discussed how they are working with the Illinois City County Manager Association to create marketing materials to promote and recruit potential applicants to local government. Host: Dan Bolin
01:14:2521/10/2022
#540 Local Autonomy and COVID-19 Response with Dr. Dana Patton and Joshua Pine
Two guests joined the podcast to talk about a research paper in the State and Local Government Review that examined local government response to the COVID-19 pandemic. Dr. Dana Patton, an Associate Professor at the University of Alabama, and Joshua Pine, Program Manager of City Innovation and Data at the National League of Cities, discussed how the power of local governments varies by state, data collection and categorization for their research, and the types of policy actions made by local governments during the pandemic. Host: Ben Kittelson
49:1807/10/2022
#539 Building a Culture of Strategy and Innovation with Rafael Baptista, Buncombe County, NC
Incremental steps to improvement. Rafael Baptista, Director of Strategy and Innovation for Buncombe County, North Carolina, joined the podcast to talk about the work of his team and how they support the County organization as internal consultants. He shared how they support the County's strategic plan, transparency efforts, and policy initiatives. Rafael also discussed his career path into local government and why he is excited to join the ELGL Board of Directors. Host: Lauren Palmer
34:4530/09/2022
#538 A Community-Centered Approach to Public Safety with Ryan Smith, Durham, NC
Sending the right response. Ryan Smith, Director of Community Safety for the City of Durham, North Carolina, joined the podcast to talk about a new approach to public safety. He shared why and how the Community Safety Department was formed. Ryan outlined all of the pilot programs they are currently testing and how they are developing a first responder culture. Ryan also described what metrics they are tracking. Host: Toney Thompson
01:04:0323/09/2022
#537 Diversity and Inclusion in Peoria, IL with Melodi Green
Advancing equity in government systems. Melodi Green, Chief Diversity and Inclusion Officer for the City of Peoria, Illinois, joined the podcast to talk about diversity and inclusion. She shared her path to her current role and how her legal background guides her work today. Melodi shared her work on the Peoria Equity Accountability Program. She also talked about why it was an important initiative and how metrics from the program can be used in the future. Host: Ben Kittelson
43:0316/09/2022
#536 An 11-year-old talks Parks and Ice Rinks with Zach Navin, Waukesha County, WI
Kids need to know about local government too! To celebrate the start of the new school year, we gave the hosting duties to Mason Zeemering an 11-year-old in Athens, Georgia. Mason talked with Zach Navin, the Parks Supervisor for Waukesha County, Wisconsin all about managing parks and ice rinks. Zach shared his career background, how kids can learn about parks and recreation activities, and what it takes to manage ice arenas. Host: Mason Zeemering
16:4213/09/2022
#535 Using Education to Reduce Trash in DC Waterways with Layne Marshall and Julie Lawson
Two guests joined the podcast to talk about reducing litter and trash in waterways. Layne Marshall, a Biologist at the US Environmental Protection Agency's Trash Free Waters Program, and Julie Patton Lawson, Workforce Program Analyst for the DC City Government, joined the podcast to discuss a pilot study that used an education campaign to reduce trash leakage associated with curbside municipal trash collection. They shared why this education campaign was initiated, how the neighborhoods in DC were chosen, and what the impact was, as well as lessons for other local governments. Host: Lauren Palmer
37:4109/09/2022
#534 Improving Traffic and Pedestrian Safety with Victoria Barrett, Chicago Metropolitan Agency for Planning
Better biking, walking, and public transit. Victoria Barrett, Transportation Planner for the Chicago Metropolitan Agency for Planning, joined the podcast to talk about improving traffic and pedestrian safety. She shared how the inputs into roadway design affect non-vehicular traffic and the other approaches that can improve pedestrian safety. Victoria also discussed how technology can help with improvements too. Host: Dan Bolin
01:10:0502/09/2022
#533 Leadership & Career Development with Eric Marsh, Rolesville, NC
From doer to leader. Eric Marsh, Assistant Town Manager of the Town of Rolesville, North Carolina, joined the podcast to talk about his work and career path. He discussed the transition into leadership and how he learned about his own leadership style. He also shared how he got to know the Rolesville organization and how the Town is managing growth and development. Host: Ben Kittelson
01:00:2426/08/2022
#532 The Job of a Prothonotary with Noah Marlier, Montgomery County, PA
Noah Marlier, Prothonotary for Montgomery County, Pennsylvania, joined the podcast to talk about what a Prothonotary does. Noah shared what being the elected civil clerk of the Court of Common Pleas means, the kind of procedures his office processes, and how he runs his office. He also shared how the pandemic affected operations within the office. Host: Lauren Palmer
36:2419/08/2022
#531 Communication & Sharing the Work of Local Government with Jessica VanderKolk, Battle Creek, MI
Being a liaison between local government and the community. Jessica VanderKolk, Communications Manager for the City of Battle Creek, Michigan, joined the podcast to talk about local government communications. She shared how staff can help share their stories with the community and highlight the work of their organization. She also talked about her career path into local government from journalism and her new role on the ELGL Board of Directors. Host: Toney Thompson
44:2912/08/2022
#530 Returning to the Politics vs. Administration Debate with Dr. Kimberly Nelson, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
Dr. Kimberly Nelson, Professor of Public Administration and Government at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, returns to the podcast to talk about her most recent article about the politics versus administration debate. She provides an in-depth explanation of the role of the Local Government Manager in policymaking as it relates to the politics vs. administration dichotomy. Host: Ben Kittelson
47:0505/08/2022
#529 Inclusive Prosperity in Economic Development with Jessica L. González Martínez and Sterling Johnson
Two guests joined the podcast to talk about inclusive prosperity in economic development. Jessica L. González Martínez is an Inclusive Economic Development Advisor for the New Growth Innovation Network. Sterling Johnson is the Just Opportunity Portfolio Director for the Partnership for Southern Equity. They discussed the joint partnership between their organizations to produce the Communication Resource Guide for Inclusive Economic Development and how local governments can integrate equity and inclusion into economic development strategies. Host: Lauren Palmer
53:2329/07/2022
#528 ADA Compliance & Improving Accessibility with Linda Mastandrea, Chicago Metropolitan Agency for Planning
Linda Mastandrea, Director of Regional ADA Planning and Local Safety for the Chicago Metropolitan Agency for Planning, joined the podcast to talk about the Americans with Disabilities Act and creating more accessible communities. She shared some of the history of the ADA, how compliance can help cities, and what cities should be doing to create an ADA transition plan. Linda also shared her career path from Paralympic athlete to working with local governments to create a more equitable region. Host: Dan Bolin
48:4422/07/2022
#527 Infrastructure & Leadership Training with Denise Bevan, Palm Coast, FL
Preparation and service. Denise Bevan the City Manager of the City of Palm Coast, Florida joined the podcast to discuss her career path from environmental planner to City Manager. She talked about the history of Palm Coast and the infrastructure challenges the City deals with. She shared an internal leadership training program used to develop and retain staff. She also discussed her time as interim City Manager and the transition to taking on the role permanently. Host: Ben Kittelson
52:5115/07/2022
#526 Employee Engagement & Culture with Dan Biles, Pasco County, FL
People, purpose, and performance. Dan Biles, County Administrator for Pasco County, Florida, joined the podcast to discuss employee engagement and culture. He shared what makes a place great to work at and tools to get organizational buy-in. Dan outlined the robust training the County offers to build leaders and shared employee retention strategies. Host: Ben Kittelson
01:10:5808/07/2022
#525 Resilient Building Codes with Jennifer Carpenter, U.S. HUD
Helping communities better withstand natural hazards and severe weather events. Jennifer Carpenter, Assistant Director of Policy for the Disaster Recovery & Special Issues Division at the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, joined the podcast to discuss resilient building codes. She outlined the work of the Disaster Recovery & Special Issues Division and the Community Development Block Grant Disaster Recovery Program. She also shared the benefits and how cities can get started to modernize building codes. Host: Lauren Palmer
34:3501/07/2022
#524 Management & Leadership with Scott Neal, Edina, MN
Building the future of city management. Scott Neal, City Manager for the City of Edina, Minnesota, joined the podcast to discuss his career in city management. He shared how the City's Management Fellowship works and his goal of creating leaders for the profession. He talked about affordable house and equity work happening in Edina and he provided an in-depth look at his career path along with many lessons learned along the way. Host: Ben Kittelson
50:2024/06/2022
#523 Equity in the Library with Christy Mulligan & Ayanna Muata, Hennepin County, MN
Two guests joined the podcast to talk about diversity, equity, and inclusion work in libraries. Christy Mulligan is the Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion Coordinator for Hennepin County Library. Ayanna Muata is the Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion Project Manager for Hennepin County Library. They talked about how they have integrated equity into programs, the origins of their work, and the impact of COVID-19 and the murder of George Floyd on their work. Host: Ben Kittelson
51:0917/06/2022
#522 Arbitrary Lines, the Case Against Zoning with M. Nolan Gray, UCLA Lewis Center
What do we want city planning to do? M. Nolan Gray, author and researcher at the UCLA Lewis Center for Regional Policy Studies, joined the podcast to talk about his new book, Arbitrary Lines: How Zoning Broke the American City and How to Fix It. Nolan provides an in-depth history of zoning including the impacts and ways zoning has distorted American cities. He shared ways that cities can reform zoning and what a city without zoning might look like. He also discussed what the future of planning profession would be without zoning. Host: Ben Kittelson
57:1210/06/2022
#521 Tulsa Community Partnerships & ARP Funding with Jen Tolentino & Alisa Dougless
Alisa Dougless, Program Manager at the City of Tulsa, Oklahoma, and Jen Tolentino, Director of Local Practice at Results for America, joined the podcast to talk about spending federal funding from American Rescue Plan. They discussed best practices in managing and spending funds as well as working how the City of Tulsa worked with local partners. Host: Alyssa Dinberg
55:3204/06/2022
#520 Ocean Protection & Climate Action with Dr. Tiffany Wise-West, Santa Cruz, CA
Sustainability steps for the future. Dr. Tiffany Wise-West, Sustainability and Climate Action Manager for the City of Santa Cruz, California, joined the podcast to talk about local government ocean protection and planning for sea level rise. She discussed the City's Climate Action Plan, their sea level rise explorer app, and how the City earned the "Blue City" recognition for being committed to clean oceans. She also highlighted what steps the City is taking to grow its green economy. Host: Ben Kittelson
46:1327/05/2022
#519 Building Organizational Culture with Scot Simpson, River Falls, WI
One City, one team. Scot Simpson, City Administrator for the City of River Falls, Wisconsin, joined the podcast to talk about strategies for shaping organizational culture. He shared how they prioritized employee engagement and created opportunities to build relationships between employees across departments. He discussed the importance of onboarding, recognizing long serving employees, and how they focused on culture during the COVID-19 pandemic. Host: Ashley Copeland
24:4424/05/2022
#518 Troubling Signs at the Supreme Court with Amanda Karras, Lisa Soronen, & Brian Connolly
Three guests joined the podcast to discuss the City of Austin v. Reagan National Advertising Supreme Court case. They provided in-depth analysis of the case and how the decision will impact local government sign regulations. Amanda Karras is the Executive Director and General Counsel for the International Municipal Lawyers Association. Lisa Soronen is the Executive Director of the State and Local Legal Center. Brian Connolly is a land use Attorney at Otten Johnson. Host: Dan Bolin
01:01:2020/05/2022
#517 The Hidden World of Deathcare with Staci Zavattaro, University of Central Florida
What cities should think about related to deathcare. Staci Zavattaro, Professor of Public Administration at the University of Central Florida, joined the podcast to talk about deathcare and its relationship to local government. She outlined the elements of deathcare and how she became involved in the field. Staci highlighted the role and importance of local government cemeteries and the impact of COVID-19 on deathcare. Host: Toney Thompson
01:01:1517/05/2022
#516 Mayors & Local Political Violence with Heidi Gerbracht & Sue Thomas
An assault on local democracy. Two guests joined the podcast to talk about a new report on political violence toward mayors. Heidi Gerbracht is the Founder of the Equity Agenda and Sue Thomas is a Senior Research Scientist at the Pacific Institute for Research and Evaluation. The report founds that political violence against mayors is common and more prevalent for women mayors and mayors of color. Host: Kirsten Wyatt
39:0713/05/2022
#515 Climate Action & Heat Mitigation in Phoenix, AZ with Nancy Allen & David Hondula
Becoming a sustainable desert city. Two guests from the City of Phoenix, Arizona joined the podcast to talk about the City's climate action plan and addressing urban heat. Nancy Allen is the Environmental Programs Manager and David Hondula is the Director of Heat Response and Mitigation. They talked about developing the City's first community-wide climate action plan and implementing actions to combat heat. Host: Ben Kittelson
45:3511/05/2022
#514 Elevating Analysis in Fire & Emergency Services with Preet Bassi, Center for Public Safety Excellence
Data-informed decision making. Preet Bassi, the Chief Executive Officer at the Center for Public Safety Excellence, joined the podcast to talk about elevating analysis in fire and emergency services. She discussed the Center for Public Safety Excellence's accreditation process and benefits. She also shared how fire analysts can provide public comment on the new standard from the National Fire Protection Association on the job requirements for staff who use, analyze, or evaluate public safety data. Host: Toney Thompson
36:5606/05/2022
#513 Sustainability & Building IQ with Tessa Schreiner, Aspen, CO
Leading by example. Tessa Schreiner, Climate Action Manager for the City of Aspen, Colorado, joined the podcast to talk about sustainability and energy use. She highlighted the City's Building IQ program, the logistics behind it, and the importance of data collection and benchmarking for building performance standards. She also shared how the City approaches climate change policy through an equity lens. Host: Ben Kittelson
59:1603/05/2022
#512 Navigating as a Leader with Daniel Roberts, BrightDrop
Being bold and pushing boundaries. Daniel Roberts, the Head of Communications at BrightDrop, joined the podcast to talk about lessons he's learned as a leader early in his career. He discussed his leadership philosophy, developing staff, and working in both the public and private sectors. This episode was recorded from the National Forum for Black Public Administrators (NFBPA) Forum 2022 in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Host: Toney Thompson
35:5429/04/2022
#511 Starting a Public Service Career with Jonathan Henry, NFBPA Student Representative
Step up and stand out. Jonathan Henry, the Student Representative on the NFBPA Board of Directors, joined the podcast to talk about starting his career, his interest in accounting and information technology, and the value of internships. He discussed how students can position themselves for success in the workplace and in their job and internship searches. This episode was recorded from the National Forum for Black Public Administrators (NFBPA) Forum 2022 in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Host: Toney Thompson
20:1326/04/2022
#510 Becoming a City Manager with Tanisha Briley, Gaithersburg, MD
Sharing experiences and learning from each other. Tanisha Briley, the City Manager of the City of Gaithersburg, Maryland, rejoined the podcast to talk about how to become a City Manager. She explained her leadership style along with obstacles faced in her career. Tanisha shared skills needed and advice for those who want to become a City Manager. This episode was recorded from the National Forum for Black Public Administrators (NFBPA) Forum 2022 in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Host: Toney Thompson
45:3922/04/2022
#509 Innovative City Planning with Paul Lewis, Orlando, FL
Planning for the future. Paul Lewis, Chief Planning Manager for the City of Orlando, Florida, joined the podcast to talk about the innovative planning practices in the City of Orlando. He shared the City's tables of connection initiative that was completed as part of the AARP Community Challenge program. Paul also detailed how Orlando incorporates age-friendly and future ready concepts into their planning practices as well as several past master planning projects and their impact on the City. Host: Ben Kittelson
51:5519/04/2022
#508 The Impact of the Great Resignation with Ronnie Dampier, Melody Lenox, & Margarita Hudgins
Three guests joined the podcast to talk about the Great Resignation, the impact on the local government workforce, and how to engage staff. Ronnie Dampier is the Chief of Staff for the District Department of Transportation in Washington, DC. Melody Lennox is the Senior Vice President of People Operations for Axxess. Magarita Hudgins is the Assistant Vice President of Colonial Life. They shared challenges and best practices regarding retention. This episode was recorded from the National Forum for Black Public Administrators (NFBPA) Forum 2022 in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Host: Toney Thompson
01:11:2615/04/2022
#507 Data and Longmont CAReS with Becky Doyle & Sandi Seader, Longmont, CO
Slaying the data dragon. Two guests from the City of Longmont, Colorado joined the podcast to discuss the City's use of data and recent What Works Cities Certification. Becky Doyle is the Executive Director of Consolidated Services and Sandi Seader is the Assistant City Manager. They discussed the Longmont CAReS program, which makes it easier for community members to receive assistance, and how they are shifting the conversation around data and decision making. They also talked about the assistance the City provided to their neighboring community, Louisville, to help with disaster recovery after a fire. Host: Ben Kittelson
59:5512/04/2022
#506 Improving Fiscal Strategy with Lawrence Greenspun & Mark Funkhouser
Creating a better functioning society. Two guests joined the podcast to discuss their partnership to improve fiscal strategy for local governments. Mark Funkhouser, President of Funkhouser & Associates, and Lawrence Greenspun, Director of Public Sector Engagement at the Drucker Institute, discussed a combined learning approach to fiscal strategy. They also discussed making public finance more relatable and a new approach to citizen engagement. Host: Lauren Palmer
53:3308/04/2022
#505 Urban Forestry & Sustainability in Eugene, OR with Scott Altenhoff & Marisa Repka
Keeping carbon captured. Two guests joined the podcast to discuss urban forestry and sustainability. Scott Altenhoff, an Urban Forestry Management Analyst with the City of Eugene, OR, and Marisa Repka, the Co-Founder and CFO of Cambium Carbon, discussed more sustainable ways of disposing of deceased trees. They covered end users, implementation, and data tracking for the City's new Reforestation Hub Assessment. Host: Ben Kittelson
54:0605/04/2022
#504 Outreach & Education on Building ADUs in Salinas, CA
Livable communities for people of all ages. Three guests from the City of Salinas, California joined the podcast to talk about creating an Accessory Dwelling Unit (ADU) educational campaign that included brochures, bilingual workshops for the public, and a technical workshop for contractors and other professionals that develop ADUs in the City. Raul Ortega is a Junior Engineer in Permit Services, Adam Garrett is an Assistant Planner, and Holly Hodge served as an Housing Production Coordinator VISTA. They shared the common questions they get from the community and the impact of the outreach. Host: Alyssa Dinberg
49:1201/04/2022
#503 Technology & Digital Self-Service with Tyler Douthit, Lawrence, IN
Improving access for utility payments. Tyler Douthit, City Controller / Utilities CFO for the City of Lawrence, Indiana, joined the podcast to talk about how the City worked to increase customer options for making utility payments. He discussed implementing a kiosk and online self-service payments. He also shared how the COVID-19 pandemic impacted this work and how they reallocated staff time after implementing digital payment options. Host: Kirsten Wyatt
33:0129/03/2022
#502 Women in Fire Service with Anna Koons & Danielle Dulin, Warrensburg, MO
She leads the way. Two guests from the City of Warrensburg, Missouri joined the podcast to discuss women in the fire service. Danielle Dulin, City Manager, and Anna Koons, Fire Department Captain, discussed recruitment and retention strategies for firefighters and how they have achieved a fire department comprised of over 30% women. Danielle and Anna also shared advice for how women can move into local government leadership roles along with messages to young women interested in the profession. Host: Lauren Palmer
34:2225/03/2022
#501 Building a Culture of Equity with Danya Perry, Wake County, NC
Reach In, Reach Out, Reach Over. Danya Perry, Director of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion for Wake County, North Carolina, joined the podcast to discuss his work in local government diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI). He provided a definition of DEI along with what change looks like in local government. Danya highlighted the common mistakes of DEI work and what we can do day to day to improve DEI. Host: Toney Thompson
58:1622/03/2022
#500 GovLove Moments, Producer Picks, & ELGL History
A very special episode of GovLove. To mark the occasion of 500 episodes of a podcast about local government, the team looks back at some of their favorite moments of the podcast. Kirsten Wyatt and Kent Wyatt talked about the origins of ELGL and how the organization has grown (00:02:53). The GovLove Producers, Ben Kittelson and Michael Montgomery, share their favorite segments of the podcast (00:44:22). All of the GovLove Co-Hosts discussed moments that have stuck with them from the podcast (01:26:13). Hosts: Kirsten Wyatt, Ben Kittelson, Alyssa Dinberg, Toney Thompson, Lauren Palmer, Dan Bolin, & Ashley Copeland Producers: Michael Montgomery & Ben Kittelson
01:53:1518/03/2022