Good people of the internet and faithful For the Love listeners—you’ve asked, we’ve listened, and we are *thrilled* to invite you to our brand-new series on one of our favorite topics: The Enneagram personality assessment! Whether you’re a seasoned Ennea-thusiast or a complete newbie, you’re going to want to plug into this deep dive with Enneagram expert (and a Type 2 herself), Suzanne Stabile! Suzanne and Jen walk through the ins and outs of each of the nine Enneagram numbers, while Suzanne gives piercingly accurate insight on the motivations behind each personality type. Plus, Suzanne shares how we can learn to use the Enneagram as the ultimate empathy tool, as it helps us listen to and treat others in the way that they need, not in the way that we need. Suzanne and Jen agree that knowing yourself and others through identifying your type can revolutionize our relationships with our spouses, parents, kids, friends, coworkers—everyone. And be sure to check out the whole series featuring a deep dive into every number type over 9 episodes!  * * * Jen’s new book, “Fierce, Free, and Full of Fire” is out now! http://fierceandfreebook.com * * * Thank you to our episode sponsors! BetterHelp Counseling | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove Laurel Springs School | Register your child today at laurelsprings.com/forthelove and receive a waived registration fee Ancestry | Start exploring your family story today at ancestry.com/forthelove to get your AncestryDNA Kit and start your free trial To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Who would we be if we weren’t afraid? What would our lives look like if we pushed aside our greatest fears and let curiosity lead the way? Today we’re wrapping the Fierce, Free, and Full of Fire series with one of the world’s greatest teachers on how to live in the beauty of freedom: award-winning writer and all-around good human, Elizabeth Gilbert. Liz has opened her life and poured her lessons generously into masterpieces on creative living like Eat, Pray, Love and Big Magic, plus her latest work, the gorgeous novel City of Girls. Today Liz feeds our souls by giving us permission to throw away words like “passion” and “purpose” and “balance” (which, let’s be honest, are stifling) so that, instead, we can lower the stakes and allow ourselves the delight of discovery.  * * * Jen’s new book, “Fierce, Free, and Full of Fire” is out now! http://fierceandfreebook.com * * * Thank you to our episode sponsors! - Best Fiends | Download Best Fiends FREE on the Apple App Store or Google Play. https://bestfiends.com - BeachBody on Demand | Text FORTHELOVE to 303030 and get a special free trial membership. - Camano Island Coffee | Sign up for a Coffee Lovers Membership and receive $20 off your first shipment. http://camanoislandcoffee.com/forthelove To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Have you ever wanted to be part of an actual book club? One that actually reads the book instead of just providing classy cover for wine drinking? (well, okay, there’s still a *little* wine drinking) Then seriously, you need to join the Jen Hatmaker Book Club! Every month, Jen sends you one of her favorite books (along with a box of goodies!), and sits down with the book’s author for a podcast that’s exclusive for members . . . until TODAY! Because the April author of the month is none other than one Ms. Jennifer Hatmaker, who wrote a brand-new book you may have heard a little something about called Fierce, Free, and Full of Fire. So to celebrate, Jen and her ride-or-die girlfriends Trina, Shonna, and Jenny hopped on Skype to talk about all the hard lessons and laughs they’ve had as they’ve lived out the pages of Fierce together. Jen and the gang talk about how they met, which friend can claim eternal credit for pushing Jen into creating a sphere of influence, how they’ve learned to love their bodies and make friendships last and trust themselves to create a life that’s worthy of the women full of fire they’ve been called to be. ***SIGN UP for the Jen Hatmaker Book Club today!jenhatmakerbookclub.com ***THANK YOU to our episode sponsors!- Aspen Lane | Get 10% off your order with discount code FORTHELOVE at shopaspenlane.com- Camano Island Coffee | Sign up for a Coffee Lovers Membership and get $20 off your first order at camanolislandcoffee.com/forthelove To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Fierce women are all around us—we are them, we raise them, we’ve been mentored by them. But lifestyle expert and entrepreneur Camila McConaughey takes that to a new level by cultivating a loving, open, supportive community called Women of Today. The ultimate example of a fierce woman, Camila moved independently from Brazil to the U.S. at only fifteen, determined to take the world by storm. After stumbling into modeling, Camila hustled, and she hustled hard. She lived her life to the very fullest, experiencing all she could, because those life moments are things that can never be taken away. She clung to faith to keep the discouragement at bay when things got hard, and she prayed diligently for God to reveal her bigger mission: “You take me where I’m supposed to go.” She’s a proponent of the spirit of trying, the experience of living, and innovating in every way possible, and she’s on the show to share what magic can happen when we’re comfortable and confident enough in our own skin that we can turn our efforts to the other women around us who need to be lifted. * * *  Thank you to our episode sponsors! - Noom | Start your trial today at noom.com/forthelove - I Still Believe | watch the trailer | available on Blu-Ray/DVD on May 5 - International Justice Mission | watch stories of hope at ijm.org/sharehopenow To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Right now, we’re capable of so much more than surviving. We can thrive right now if we dig deep and we put our hand to this work. Award-winning ABC News correspondent Paula Faris, who also hosts the Journeys of Faith podcast, has just undergone an enormous self-transformation, right before all this COVID-19 craziness started happening, so she guides us through the waters here. She tells us how she’s leaning into her true purpose and how we use this season to discover ours. As co-anchor of Good Morning America Weekend and the co-host of The View, Paula was living her best life--or so she thought--because even though she had her dream job, she didn’t have her dream life. Fear haunted her when she first stepped into her career, and then again when stepping out of it, and she shares how facing that fear helped her realign her priorities and led to inner peace. In this season, it helps to be realistic with our expectations and our workload; focusing on practicality and giving ourselves (and our loved ones) grace. Like Paula, we can hit the reset button and consider where we are, what’s next, and where we want to go from here.  * * * Thanks to our episode sponsor, International Justice Mission! ijm.org/sharehopenow To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Think about the day quarantine is over (dare we dream?). What will our lives look like? Who will we be? Is it possible that maybe, ever so gently, we can start taking a small inventory of what’s been serving us, and what we want to let go of? Leading us through these questions is the wise and witty Sheri Salata, former executive producer of The Oprah Winfrey Show, former co-president of Harpo Network and OWN. One day, Sheri woke up at age 57 and discovered that while she had the career of her dreams, she didn’t have the life of her dreams—and she embarked on a journey to reverse those roles, which she talks about in her most excellent book, The Beautiful No. Sheri walks us through how to recognize when you’re living in deliberate unconsciousness, why it’s never too late to dream a new dream, and how committing to radical self-care is a surefire way to change your life for the better. Sheri reminds us that we’re not worthy because of what we achieve—we are worthy simply because of who we are. * * * Thanks to our episode sponsor, International Justice Mission! ijm.org/sharehopenow To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our next “Fierce” guest is coming in hot! The dynamite leader of the Own It Academy, Jordan Lee Dooley, takes the mic to push us to ponder what our true dreams really are and how we can start to own them—even if we have to take steps outside of our comfort zone box (or the box that others have put us in!). And Jordan doesn’t just talk about chasing dreams—she’s a woman who walks behind her words. Jordan reveals how she forged her own path from Etsy shop owner to business educator, author, and podcaster by daring to take chances and try different career paths as she honed her gift for communication. And Jordan realized as she gave herself permission to try new things, she kept herself open to discover all the seemingly random skills weren’t meaningless—they could be woven together to create a phenomenal career to help women all over the globe. Jordan and Jen talk through what it means to pivot well and why finding our passion actually isn’t the biggest task of our lives—it’s recognizing what our skills are, and using them to contribute help humankind flourish. Jordan reminds us that our job is not to accomplish things—it’s to leave behind a legacy of relationships and love as integrated women who know themselves and help others know themselves, too. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re all struggling with resentment right now—separation from family and friends, lost jobs and furloughs, cancelled graduations and vacations, and even struggling to come up with grace for the people living right inside our very houses. But our guest today, New York Times bestselling author Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt, reminds us how healing and freeing it can be to wrap this season—and the rest of our lives—in forgiveness, even when it’s incredibly hard to encounter our pain and try to let it all go. Katherine’s spent the last few years in the quest to understand forgiveness after a terrible rift with a close friend. And in her journey, she talked to more than 20 people from all walks of life who have encountered tragedy and personal demons—everyone from headline-making names like Elizabeth Smart to friend-of-the-podcast Nadia Bolz-Weber. Katherine recorded her conversations and insights in her brand-new book The Gift of Forgiveness. Katherine’s words will fill you with hope because, as she says, “When we learn to embrace forgiveness, it opens us up to healing, hope, and a new world of possibility.” To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Quarantine Queens is back with another episode as we continue to muddle through this weird time of isolation and the ongoing search for the elusive “new normal,” including; when is it okay to take a break from the seriousness of it all to have fun and laugh? Enter this week’s guest, best-selling author and award winning comedian Jim Gaffigan. Like Jen, Jim is quarantining with his spouse and 5 kids, but unlike Jen, they literally can’t go one step out the door—as Jim describes it—“taking out the trash is my ‘me’ time.” Like so many of us, Jim and his family are navigating completely unknown territory where questions of “what’s next” with jobs, school, trips and obligations remain vague at best—and he’s graciously invited us to take a peek at how his family is handling it all with his hilarious online series “Dinner with The Gaffigans.” If you think you deserve a parade because you cooked 3 meals for your family in a day while in quarantine, or because you changed a water filter without calling anyone, Jim and Jen are your staunch advocates. Ultimately, they discuss what they hope we’ll walk away with from this unsettling season, and Jim even gives Jen a pep talk about the pros and cons of launching a new book during a pandemic. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The For the Love world is totally upside-down today, y’all. Jen is a guest on her own podcast, and gets interviewed about her new book, Fierce, Free, and Full of Fire, by the ever-so-magical Melissa Radke! Jen reveals the first outlier women who made lasting impressions on her: watching how they lived in her own skins in a way that didn't fit the template Jen had been prescribed from her conservative upbringing. The two talk about growing up in the church and the messaging they received about who they should be as women, and the hard work of pushing past those boundaries to become the women they were designed to be. Listen as Melissa pulls an “Oprah” on Jen, how some of Jen’s words made Melissa “mad,” and how they both are learning to discover who they are and how to love every part of themselves (and we can too). Finding a sense of belonging to ourselves, uncovering who we are and what we want, is the start of the journey to becoming Fierce, Free and Full of Fire.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What do you do when you believe God is good, that He has a plans to give us hope and a future, and yet the reality of what we’re living is . . . well, it’s hard. And sad. So how do we reconcile having hard feelings and holding onto faith? Times like these call for experts who’ve walked hard paths before, and we have that leader in the incredible Kate Bowler, an associate professor at Duke Divinity School and NYT bestselling author of Everything Happens for a Reason: And Other Lies I’ve Loved. After Kate walked through a Stage IV cancer diagnosis at 35 years old, she’s gained some hard-earned wisdom that she she shares abundantly, like how to manage our moments when we can’t plan for the future (spoiler alert: look for signs of hope in the in-between space). Plus, Kate reminds us that the language of the Christian faith isn’t always self-improvement—there’s a purpose to our pain, and it’s something we need to talk about, because we can be scared and still be faithful. Let’s be honest: we’re living through a really hard season. But even right now, God is still here with us. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Parents, we’re trying our best here. Who’d have ever thought we’d find ourselves in the middle of a pandemic, trying to help our offspring navigate a world we don’t really know how to wade through ourselves? Two of our fellow parents, blogger Jessica Turner and children’s book author Matthew Paul Turner, share how they’re managing all the moving pieces, and how they’re trying to balance structure with whimsy to keep kids on track. The Turners also give us the scoop on which tools and resources that are helping them navigate life with their three kids from pre-K to 5th grade (spoiler alert: subscription boxes are worth their weight in gold). As busy working parents, Jessica and Matthew remind us that we can put away the expectations for perfect homeschooling (scratch that, crisis schooling) or perfect anything, really, and trust that being present and hopeful in this new season will carry us through. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our next guest in our Fierce, Free, and Full of Fire series is—get ready—Queer Eye’s delightful design guru Bobby Berk. Bobby walks us through the backstory we’ve all gotten glimpses of on TV: how he left home at 15, after realizing he was gay and knowing he would struggle against rejection and hatred in his small hometown. This began a tough journey where he worked multiple jobs, slept in his car, moving to Denver then eventually NYC, where he worked his way up at various design retailers before opening his own acclaimed design business. Bobby gives us the inside scoop on the nail-biting process of becoming part of the Fab 5 (and why Jonathan thinks Bobby would be the first to go in a zombie apocalypse!), and what gives him joy and fire being part of that crew and changing lives around the globe. Bobby tells us there’s enough love and success to go around, and in the spirit of reversing lies we’ve been told about ourselves, Bobby refuses to accept that we all aren’t capable of success. As Bobby’s story illustrates, we can make our dreams happen if we freely and fiercely go after them.   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

More than ever, now’s the time we can dust off the books we’ve been meaning to read for forever and conquer our literary dreams. But what if your dreams of tackling War & Peace are too much right now and you just need a quick escape? What about books that pre-teens and teens stuck at home can pour themselves into—even for the kids who don’t find their noses in a book too often? The Queen of Books, aka Anne Bogel of Modern Mrs. Darcy, graces the podcast once again with some cozy book suggestions that’ll help you take your mind off things (or the other people living in your house). And Anne’s just released a book of her own that’s super timely for the world we’re living in right now called Don’t Overthink It: Make Easier Decisions, Stop Second-Guessing, and Bring More Joy. She walks us through how to “change the channel” in our brains and gives us a few tips on how to spread joy and hope while we’re confined, like helping small local businesses right from your couch. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Now that so many of us are figuring out what it looks like to be home all the time, we also find ourselves cooking, cooking, cooking. Whether you’ve got a family of seven like Jen, or are cooking for one, the temptation to stress eat (Doritos anyone? chased by some Haagen Dazs?) is strong. And conversely, so is the pressure to feed yourself and family well during a time of crisis when budgets may be under assault and grocery store trips aren’t as fruitful as they used to be. We have just the person to guide us through what to stock in our pantries during such a time as this--Nom Nom Paleo’s Michelle Tam. Michelle, along with her lawyer husband Henry, have created a delicious and whimsical food brand that includes an award winning blog, app and best selling cookbooks. And lest you think that Michelle’s pantry is filled with almond flour, ghee, and kale chips, she admits to us that there might be a can of Spam or two in the mix. With grace and humor, she gives tips on what we can easily procure for our pantries to create delicious, filling and affordable meals, but assures us that you’re not a food failure if your kids get hot dogs every once in a while.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re THRILLED to launch our new “Fierce, Free, and Full of Fire” series, and our first guest lives all three of those traits in such an inspiring way. Glennon Doyle is the #1 New York Times bestselling author of Love Warrior and Carry On, Warrior and she’s back with her rawest book yet: Untamed, which explores how women untangle themselves from the lies they’ve been told about their bodies, their voices, their minds and their places in the world. Glennon’s also an activist, and she’s the founder and president of Together Rising, an all-woman-led nonprofit that has raised over $22 million for women and children in crisis. Glennon recounts her own “untaming” through an unblinking examination of her upbringing, her first marriage, and her struggles with an eating disorder and alcoholism. She encourages all of us to examine what we want and implores us to lean into those things—not letting anyone tell us that what we want isn’t achievable. Glennon believes that because what most women want is true and beautiful, if we chased all we wanted, “dreams would be realized. Corrupt governments would topple. Institutions would fall so that we could rebuild lives and relationships and nations that are built on justice.”   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On the best days, people are, well, a lot. They have feelings, they have opinions, they have needs—and as “responsible adults,” we have so many people relying on us at one time that sometimes it can feel like we cannot crumble, because who on earth knows what would happen if we did? Add in a virus, some upended lifestyles, extroverts and introverts forced indoors together, and well . . . let’s just say we need some guidance on how to get through this pandemic with our sanity intact. Thankfully, one of Jen’s favorite experts is here to lend a hand (and when we say favorite, we mean she’s quoted the book he co-authored, Boundaries, in *at least* six of her books): psychologist and NYT bestselling author Dr. John Townsend! Jen and Dr. Townsend go deep into all the pressure points we’re seeing in our relationships right now: how parents can walk teens through their hard feelings, how to spouses can learn to talk through their frustrations (especially since introverts and extroverts are responding so differently right now), even how to draw boundaries in a house where you’re stuck with a bunch of other people. Dr. Townsend’s chockfull of practical tips on how to emotionally care for ourselves and our loved ones well, even during a crisis. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You’re stuck at home with nowhere to go, with people you loved before you learned you were married to the guy who says, “Let’s take this convo offline,” or discovered your human limit for watching Frozen 2 on repeat is approximately 72 hours. When our normal routines get out of whack, so do our bodies—and our minds are soon to follow. Therapist, researcher, and podcaster Dr. Hillary McBride—guest of our most-listened-to episode of 2019—is back to walk us through the stress we’re feeling and how to move our bodies through Big Feelings. With her soothing voice and warm personality, Hillary guides us through why this particular season of newness is so hard for us (news flash: new things take a lot of energy). Plus Hillary gives us practical tips on how to stay mentally healthy during this hard time, like how to understand what we’re actually feeling in this moment, how to heal our anxious feelings, and why setting boundaries is one of the most caring things you can do for yourself and others. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re wrapping our Live Podcast series on a high note with leadership trainer, international speaker, and author Jo Saxton. Jo graced us with her guidance in an early podcast series (one of our favorites) called “ For the Love of Women Who Built It.” And now she’s back to share her invaluable work to help women learn to become better leaders in every facet of of their lives. Jo talks about “the hunger of the how” when we are trying to figure out how to be “unstuck” and encourages us to evaluate why we feel stuck (could it be that we’re afraid to move?). And to get unstuck, Jo encourages us to tell our stories. In fact, as Jo notes, throughout history women weren’t able to tell their stories to inspire us—and she wants to make up for lost time by helping us unpack our own. Jo reiterates that there’s room for us all and that women should advocate, recommend, and introduce the women they admire to each other—because individually and collectively, we can each go after our dreams with no apologies. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The For the Love Podcast is bringing you a series of special episodes as we all face the Coronavirus Pandemic and all the ways it’s impacting our lives. We’ll bring you inspiration, education, practical tips, humor & hope as we all face potential weeks of isolating due to the pandemic. Look for these episodes on Mondays and Fridays while we’re all hunkered down together.  Many of us are worried about the toll to the economy and to our own personal finances as we face reduced hours, changing work environments or elimination of our jobs altogether--plus added concerns that our investments and savings are at risk. Our guest for this episode is here to help us manage those fears and give us some practical ways to prepare our hearts and minds for managing finances in a crisis. Pete the Planner is a USA Today columnist and the CEO of Your Money Line and Hey Money. In his previous life, he was also an award winning comedian, so while we may feel like crying over potential money woes, Pete will give us hope and help us find something to laugh about too. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re on the road again with the For the Love Live Podcast Tour! And this stop reunites us with old friend and New York Times bestselling author Shauna Niequist. Shauna fills us in on her family’s big move from the Midwest to New York, and all the rewards and challenges of creating a life in the Big Apple. Shauna also confesses what it’s like to sit across from Queen Oprah while she asks you questions about words that you wrote in your very own book that Oprah herself has read cover to cover (!). Shauna closes the loop from the last time she visited For the Love and gives us the real skinny on the “alternative bra situation” story—apparently she wasn’t totally forthcoming last time (one word: “stickers.”) Shauna and Jen also take questions from the audience and offer poignant and sometimes hilarious advice, including Shauna’s words to anyone trying something new: “We’re not dumb, we’re just new. We’re not failing, we’re learning. We’re not falling behind, we’re beginning again.” To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the next stop of the For the Love Live Tour, our TV soulmates return! Knox McCoy and Jamie Golden of the ever delightful show, The Popcast, come back to tell us about more things that entertain but do not matter (and a few things that actually do!).  Jen dives into Knox and Jamie’s back story and how they met on the internet back before our parents were on Facebook and people still asked Jeeves a question from time to time—plus they dish on their best business advice for people who want to start their own podcast. The trio talks about all things under the pop culture sun, like how to create a dream Hallmark movie, why Ariel is a garbage princess and why Ursula the Evil Sea Witch is Jamie’s personal hero. Plus, of course, the best TV you need to be bingeing right now! They also fill us in about their other podcast, The Bible Binge (it’s like if People Magazine told Bible stories) and how God can be found in pop culture —and how humor can be healing because, as Jamie says, “Sometimes you just need an hour to escape the dumpster fire.” To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Join us on a virtual road trip for our very first For the Love Live Podcast Tour as Jen criss-crosses the country to talk to some of our very best leaders, teachers, and entertainers about literally everything under the sun. We couldn’t think of anyone we’d want to kick off this series more than friend of the show, Austin Channing Brown. Austin is a writer, a speaker, and an advocate for racial justice. She helps schools, nonprofits, and religious organizations learn to practice genuine inclusion and equality. You’ll remember Austin from our For the Love of Exploring Our Faith series where she shared her beautiful and haunting book I’m Still Here: Black Dignity in a World Made for Whiteness. During this live conversation in Portland, Jen and Austin wrestle with some huge questions: What’s the best way to support people who have been systemically marginalized? How do we move voices and experiences of people of color at the center? And as we look at the vast landscape of social justice work, where do we even begin? Time and again, Austin forces us to ask ourselves, “What does loving our neighbor really mean?” and reminds us that justice work is hard—we’ll get doors slammed in our face. We’ll get our feelings hurt. But we’ll dust our shoulders off and keep on doing the work—because doing nothing is no longer an option, and peace and reconciliation is the end goal. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

2020’s Faith series has brought us incredible leaders across decades, generations, denominations, and ideologies. We've listened to what makes them excited to be in the faith right now and what's been challenging. We've talked about ways to build a brighter, more beautiful church. As we wrap this series, we're going to dig in a little deeper to one specific place, and we’ve enlisted three faith leaders to help us navigate through a much-needed discussion. And these faith leaders are members of the LGBTQ+ community—because it is possible to be a part of a church that is passionate about Jesus and affirming to LGBTQ+ groups. Matthew Vines is the founder of the Reformation Project, a nonprofit that educates Christians about the biblical case for LGBTQ+ inclusion. He's also the author of “God and the Gay Christian: The Biblical Case in Support of Same-Sex Relationships.” Michael Vazquez is the director of the Human Rights Campaign Foundation's Religion and Faith Program in DC. He leads efforts there to advance equity initiatives in faith communities. B.T. Harman is a content creator and speaker. His blog and podcast “Blue Babies Pink” shed some beautiful light on what it is like to love Jesus, love the church, and be gay. Each of these men has deep commitment to their faith and to the church, and during their formative years, they had to reckon with the truth that they were gay—and they experienced the full spectrum of pain and discovery that so often comes with this particular journey. Today we ask some hard questions: what does it mean to hold one another and our faith leaders accountable? And when it comes to affirmation, what's public and what's private? How can we be the best allies for our LGBTQ+ friends? How can we listen and avoid “canceling” one another if we don’t agree, or are there times when it’s called for? Our conversation is fully open, filled with grace and understanding, helping us to view things from different perspectives in the most rewarding way possible.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our guest in this continuation of our For the Love of Faith Icons series has conducted his faith leadership through a lens of love, sacrifice and goodness. Bishop Michael Curry is here to share his ideologies behind faith and what it means to live a life looking at Jesus. You’ve probably already heard of him without even knowing it: Bishop Curry had the honor of preaching at Meghan Markle and Prince Harry’s wedding. Of course, we had to ask him how he kept calm during that AMAZING moment, and he’ll share a bit about that, but the heart of what he’s here to say in this episode all comes down to one simple concept: love. The kind of love that he says “must move beyond being a sentiment to becoming a commitment—a commitment to seek the good and the welfare and the well-being of others as well as the self.” The kind of love that truly reflects the love of God. Bishop Curry provides a glimmer of hope in recognizing that even though we all tend toward vanity and selfishness, the desire to do good—the desire to seek God’s will—will propel us to love Him, love people and love ourselves. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our For the Love of Faith Icons series wouldn’t be complete without one of Jen’s longtime inspirations and mentors: Beth Moore. After four decades of leadership as an author, speaker, and teacher, Beth has seen a lot and come through a lot, but she gracefully continues to be a relevant voice to new generations of women, helping them navigate the opportunities that have opened up for them, and leading them to push back against old challenges that persistently remain. It might appear that a faith icon as strong as Beth might herself be inoculated from faith crises—after all, her humor and thoughtful perspective have guided us through the valleys of our own faith for years. But she vulnerably admits that she never feels like she can get completely free from the “rocks” in her own life, which she explores in her new book Chasing Vines. Her beautiful analogies to the vineyard underscore her belief that no matter how rocky the soil we may find ourselves planted in, God has us there—and that soil will ultimately be fertile. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our For the Love of Faith Icons series is going strong, and this week we’re diving into an issue we’ve probably all struggled with: how to act like a Christian when we’re riled up about our political views. Without even knowing it, each of us has likely been guilty of having the “I’m-right-and-everybody-who-doesn’t-agree-with-me-is-crazy” attitude when it comes to politics. And today, we’re here to get a little help on how we can engage in politics with civility and openness not only as believers, but as good citizens in general. Eugene Cho, the founder of Quest Church and the non-profit One Day’s Wages, gives his pastoral view on how, if we can keep loving God and loving others as our guiding principles, we’ll be better equipped to engage in civil and productive conversations (and PS: it won’t send us spiraling down to political/moral ruin to listen to a contrary opinion). Cho emphasizes that when we surround ourselves with people who don’t look, think, feel, or vote like us, we are following Jesus’ commandment to “love our neighbor.” And it matters how we engage, Cho reminds us, because “politics matter. Because politics inform policies that impact real human people created in the image of God.” To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Are y’all ready to go to church? Because in this episode of our For the Love of Faith Icons series, author and activist Lisa Sharon Harper graces us once again with her singular wisdom and fire—and we are here. for. it. Lisa shares what’s been going on in her work since she appeared on the award-winning episode in 2018 that everyone is still talking about. She helps us make sense of the innumerable tensions we see in the world right now between different communities and shines a light on the “narrative gap” that exists in our world: how one story affirms the experience of the powerful few, and another recognizes the dignity and worth of every single person in the world, including those on the margin. Lest we lose hope, Lisa shares a solution on the way reconnection can close this gap and calls us all to be as we were created to be: a “radically, interdependent web of love.” To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s full steam ahead in For the Love of Faith Icons, and listen—grab your pens and your Kleenexes, because Jen’s dear friend Patsy Clairmont is equal parts wisdom and pure sunshine (and we want her to adopt us). A beloved speaker and author, Patsy is a founding member of the Women of Faith conferences, which Jen credits as changing the way she thought about women in ministry (Christian women can be *gasp* funny!). Patsy knows a thing or two about opening up and sharing from her own lived experiences to help someone else. Today she tells us about her dark days battling with agoraphobia and how, when she determined to change her mindset, she was able to step out of her house and onto dozens of stages a year to impact countless lives. And for those of us wondering how we can begin to make a difference in our world, Patsy gently pushes us to keep our eyes open, to flex our empathy muscles, and to be around people who are different from us—because what’s when we remember, as she says, “the pure thrill of being alive.” To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our “For the Love of Faith Icons” series continues with another leader who hails from a famous evangelical family and has blazed a trail to a new understanding of Christianity and where the Bible fits in: pastor, writer and speaker Andy Stanley. As he grew up as a preacher’s kid of a man who has iconic status in his own right, Dr. Charles Stanley, Andy was encouraged to find his own way to God and to ask hard questions without fear of recrimination. This freedom ultimately steered Andy into his own ministry, and he is still asking the hard questions on behalf of thousands of people who attend services across 6 campuses at Atlanta’s North Point Church, the 2nd largest church in the U.S. Andy and Jen discuss how folks who have been burned by the church or who are just burned out in their faith can take a step back toward Jesus and shed their religious baggage by realizing the basis of our faith is an event (the resurrection) and a person (Jesus), not just a book of rules. They also agree that the ancient truth of the Bible can stand up to our toughest questions and that curiosity and faith really can go hand in hand.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s a brand-new year, a brand-new decade—and a brand-new series!  “For the Love of Faith Icons” finds Jen talking to some of the most well-loved leaders in the faith, the kinds of folks who have had a chance to see themselves and the world evolve spiritually, and who can handle our biggest questions while admitting they have their own. We couldn’t be more pleased to start off these inspiring and thought-provoking discussions with none other than the beloved pastor and speaker Max Lucado. For decades, Max has been leading us with warmth and good humor, gently asking us to think about who we are in the world as people of faith and what we’re striving to represent, especially in these divisive times. Max and Jen talk about some of the biggest issues on our minds—namely, what unity can look like among different groups who disagree with one another among believers and non-believers alike. Max implores us to work together to communicate, to love one another, and to model this for others. As Max says, “We can be respectful. We do not have the right to be arrogant and to point a finger. Of all the people who should not be arrogant it is those of us who believe we are saved by grace.” To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Christmas holds so many truths all at once, as it has for thousands of years. And today, Jen’s friend, pastor Nadia Bolz-Weber, leads us to look with several new lenses at the story we’ve heard since we were toddling around in snowman footie pajamas. There’s the beauty of a young family shepherding a new life into the world, amid brutal oppression from a power-hungry empire. There’s the unwed teenage girl who’s told she will carry the savior of the world while a disdainful religious culture watches her belly swell. Through it all, we get a glimpse at Mary’s fierce desire to honor her Creator, and the tremendous power held in the way she accepts this divine assignment. As Nadia takes us through the Christmas story, she points out how God moves through the world by turning the notions of “power” and “blessing” upside down while lifting up the voiceless and the oppressed, reminding us that “being ‘blessed’ means seeing God in the world and trusting that God is at work even in things we can't see, understand, or imagine.” To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As we continue the conversation about finishing strong for the year, we tap into a resource who clearly maps out a way we all can live happier and with more intention. Our friend Dave Hollis (husband to our other friend, Rachel!) had his dream job as president of distribution for The Walt Disney Company, where he worked 17 years. At the top of his game, Dave left Disney and moved with his family to Austin to form The Hollis Company, so he and Rachel could continue helping people live better lives. This move also began Dave’s personal journey to find his true purpose. Dave pulls no punches as he lays down his thoughts on finishing strong, based on hard lessons he’s learned as he’s left comfort zones, chosen to be vulnerable and tossed aside worrying what others think of him. As you might have guessed, this took Dave a bit of deliberation, forced reflection and a lot of sweat, but he assures us the results are worth it. Dave gives us paths toward gratitude and steps toward making meaningful changes in our lives that are as simple as recognizing what brings us joy and what doesn’t, and saying “yes” to the joy-giving things more often. As Dave says, “If you go on the hunt for gratitude every day, you will find evidence of it, and you will have a life that is full and different because of it.” To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re kicking it with a legend today on our series For the Love of Finishing Strong: Olympic gold medalist and FIFA World Cup champ (and Jen’s good friend) Abby Wambach! Abby shares her road to soccer stardom and the lessons she picked up from great leaders along the way—like her coach Pia Sundhage, who showed Abby how powerful and holistic feminine leadership can be. Abby takes us on a journey through her life post-soccer and how she’s using structure and discipline in new ways to help her meet her goals. Together with her wife Glennon Doyle and their Wolfpack, Abby is showing the world what it looks like to bring your full, authentic, and vulnerable self to leadership and why it’s important to make sure everyone in the room is seen and has a voice. And at the end of the day, Abby reminds us that life isn’t about achieving gold medals or winning world championships—it’s about the journey and the people who are walking beside us along the way. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s the first episode of our Finishing Strong series!  With the pressure of New Year’s resolutions and “new year, new you” mandates creeping just ‘round the corner, we’d like to focus on finishing this year (and this decade) with a bang, by giving ourselves time for reflection and the space to better wrap our heads around the future, thus absolving us all of that annoying January 1st deadline to fix everything in our lives (feel better? You’re welcome).  And to help us do just that is our guest for this episode; speaker, author, entrepreneur, and just overall mentoring force for good in the world; Lewis Howes. Lewis takes us through his life story--from a childhood filled with pain and trauma, to a career in professional football, to becoming a high performance business coach--and all the missteps and lessons along the way. Speaking with candor and vulnerability, Lewis implores us, like he did, to let everything go from our pasts and to deal with the hurts and traumas in our life, in order to embrace a beautiful future.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Podcast Land’s giving-est couple Jen & Brandon are back with a slew of great gift ideas for the holidays on our 3rd Annual Hatmaker’s Favorite Things Holiday Gift Guide! Brennifer’s (we’re gonna get that “Super Couple” name to stick) giving us all the warm fuzzies by featuring 16 companies that not only make great products, but give back in significant ways to our communities, to people in need, and to the world. Our team has done the homework so you can feel good about all your gifts this year—PLUS the Hatmakers pulled a few strings so that For the Love Podcast listeners get amazing exclusive discounts from each company featured in the episode! From leather bags to soft blankets, from Jen-approved signature jewelry to wake-you-up-with-a-kick coffee, Jen & Brandon usher us into the holidays with their inimitable style and festive spirits. And don’t worry if you can’t write down these ideas as fast as Brandon and Jen are laying them down. The entire list of products—along with pictures, links and details about the exclusive discounts—are over on jenhatmaker.com just waiting for you. Happy Holidays from Jen, Brandon and the entire For the Love Podcast team! To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, neighbor! Today we start a short holiday series that reminds us there’s still so much good in the world, and so much to be thankful for. Speaking of, is there anyone more iconic, more revolutionary, more kind than Fred Rogers? Today we get a behind-the-scenes look at the new movie, A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood, starring Tom Hanks (!) as Mister Rogers, who was lightyears ahead of his time—and Jen is joined by none other than the writers and executive producers of the movie, Noah Harpster and Micah Fitzerman-Blue. Noah and Micah tell Jen why they decided to spend a decade of their lives to writing about Mister Rogers, how it’s made them better parents, and why they think the movie will help us soften our cynicism and remember the importance of being kind. We’re inspired by the words of Fred’s wife Joanne, who said that her husband was just another person too, one always looking for a way to help children understand their feelings and to make the world a gentler place to live. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As we wrap up our For the Love of Podcasts series (insert sad face), Jen’s sitting down with the one and only Monica Padman, co-creator and co-host with Dax Shepard of Armchair Expert—aka THE most-downloaded new podcast of 2018. Monica is a creative powerhouse, and today she and Jen go down memory lane to trace Monica’s path from theater major to LA-babysitter-trying-to-land-an-acting-gig to getting a text from Kristen Bell asking if she wanted to watch her five-month-old baby—which, by the way, was a job Monica almost didn’t take (!). Monica’s relationship with Kristen and Dax gradually developed into a creative partnership that’s spawned multiple projects, including the always-insightful Armchair Expert where some of the most creative and smart people spill their guts for two hours. Monica shares that finding a north star and following it, even if it doesn’t take you where you planned to go, is always worth the risk. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our next episode of For the Love of Podcasts takes us to the gates of one of the most beloved audio shows of all time, NPR’s This American Life. And here to take us by the hand and lead us through the gates is producer Bim Adewunmi! Bim has had a rich media career, working for the BBC, The Guardian, and Buzzfeed News before starting her own podcast called Thirst Aid Kit then joining the ranks of This American Life. Radio was Bim’s first love (she’s had the same radio in her house for two decades!) so it’s only fitting that she works with the OG, circa 1995 podcast, telling stories from every corner in America from summer camp magic to a used car lot to African American blueberry farmers in Michigan. Bim’s perspective on uncovering hidden story gems, polishing and presenting them in an engaging way is equal parts fascinating and inspiring, and she reminds us that what we put into a story is just as important as what we leave out of it—and to appreciate narratives both big and small. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

  Today we’re cracking open the history textbooks and learning from OG podcaster—we’re talking, 2005 OG—Dan Carlin! Dan’s had a long career in broadcasting and his podcast, Hardcore History, combines gripping moments in history with Twilight Zone-style twists only a master storyteller could pull off. Dan and Jen examine that while we may be players on the world’s stage, we really have no precedent for today’s society. How do we navigate it when there’s nothing in our experiences we can compare it to? Through it all, Dan provides invaluable insight into seeing ourselves through the lens of history, learning from our ancestors, and fitting ourselves into the giant puzzle. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This 4th episode in our For the Love of Podcasts series speaks to the powerful way podcasts can affect change. In fact, we’ve seen podcasts start important conversations and transport us to moments in history we’d have never encountered otherwise. Jen talks to a few of her podcaster friends who are bringing the heat to their spaces: The Red Couch Podcast’s Jason Petty (aka rapper Propaganda) and his wife, Dr. Alma Zaragoza-Petty, and Catlick’s BT Harman (Brett Trapp!). First, Prop and Alma give us a deep dive into the world of the Red Couch, where they empower the experiences of people in non-majority culture who may not have conventional degrees, but can school us on politics and economics all the same (because everybody comes up against money and power, no matter where they live). Prop and Alma invite folks in majority culture to spend time in a space that’s not designed for them—because experience breeds empathy. In the second half of the show, we catch up with BT Harman, who was on the show last spring when we still called him Brett Trapp. Today we learn about the podcast BT’s been working on for four years: a true-crime story filled with complicated Southern history reaching back across centuries that he unearthed right in his own backyard: Atlanta’s Cabbagetown neighborhood. These storytellers encourage every generation to retell the hard stories, and to make room for voices from the margins to move to the center of the discussion. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re learning truckloads and having a ridiculous amount of fun in our For the Love of Podcasts series—lifehacks abound in these episodes, and especially in the show of our next guest: How To! with Charles Duhigg. Charles is a Pulitzer-winning investigative reporter and NYT bestselling author (who’s disarmingly charming), and he’s come up with a genius way to answer all of life’s “important” questions. Want to manage your anxiety? He’s your guy. Need tips on robbing a bank? Got you covered. Want to be ripped like Ryan Reynolds? Look no further! On his podcast, Charles talks to people with real questions we all have but never knew who to ask, and he hooks up the question-askers with experts who break down the big problems step by small step. And in fact, Charles is an expert in his own right: for his bestselling book The Power of Habit, Charles learned why people develop their habits—good or bad—and how we can fix them. And at one point, he walks Jen through her own mini-counseling sesh, peeling back the layers of why Jen (and we) procrastinate, and how the heck we can fix it. Charles’ insights into breaking down big problems into small, manageable steps are practical, applicable, and just plain fun podcast listening. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

One of THE best things about podcasts is how we can instantly connect with wise teachers who change our lives for the better. And that’s 100% true for today’s guest, personal finance expert Rachel Cruze! For some of us, throwing around words like “budget” and “401k” is the verbal equivalent of sticking pencils in our eyeballs. But thankfully, Rachel doesn’t have that effect on us. In her podcast and web series, The Rachel Cruze Show, Rachel takes a warm, practical approach to money that makes it all so much more doable and manageable (after all, she’s had a lifetime of training, thanks to her dad Dave Ramsey!). Today Jen and Rachel talk about why sticking to a budget actually gives you freedom, the surprising secret to having more peace with your partner around finances, and how to teach your kids healthy money habits from an early age. As a self-admitted spender at heart, Rachel empowers us with tips and tools to help us remember that despite our feelings and past choices around money, it is always possible to make a change—because we are more than just our stuff. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Calling all podcast nerds: today we’re launching a brand-new series celebrating the shows and hosts we love—that’s right, it’s time to kick off For the Love of Podcasts! And today we’re thrilled to bring you two fresh voices who started a new in the summer of 2019  and are just killing it: Charla Lauriston and Lauren Domino from The Secret Lives of Black Women! Charla and Lauren have created a space where they’re inviting all listeners to join, but they’re carving a space where black women can especially relate and be celebrated. Charla and Lauren have been friends for nearly a decade after meeting in a not-so-great workspace. Being in the trenches brought them closer together, and now they bring hilarious and poignant observations to their listeners with episodes each Thursday. Lauren and Charla share the unique challenges of being a black woman, their favorite role models—including their dream guests for their podcast (some of which mirror our own—psst, Oprah and Michelle Obama, call us!). Through podcasting, Charla and Laura have been able to confidently (and vulnerably) show who they are, where they’ve come from and share that sense of self with others as we all blaze a trail into the future. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re wrapping up the Back to School series as we celebrate the heart of our nation’s classrooms: our teachers. There are so many inspiring teachers that we couldn’t narrow down our conversation to just one guest. We had to talk to two very special teachers: the National Teachers of the Year for 2017 and 2018, Sydney Chaffee and Mandy Manning. Mandy’s classroom is in Spokane, WA, where she teaches immigrants and refugees to the US, and Sydney teaches students in Codman, MA, who find themselves in a minority population. Both teachers guide us through typical days in their classroom, tell us about the teachers who inspired them along the way, and give us a peek at the big and small things their kids share (Fortnite!). We’re so inspired by the way Mandy and Sydney infuse courage and wisdom into hard truths their pupils are learning about the world, and they remind us that every kid has the potential to be amazing—we just have to believe in them. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re still in full swing with our back to school series, and we’ve saved the best of our academic years for last - Elementary School. If you’ve ever been tempted to lose faith in this upcoming crop of youngsters, we’re here to bear witness that these kids are #killingit. Leading the pack are prodigies like 5th Grader Ryan Hickman, who started his own recycling business when he was just three years old (yes, 3!). Ryan’s now 10, and his business is thriving, and his goal, by the time he is the ripe old age of 12, is to recycle 1 million bottles and cans. He talks about his business, and how he raises money for the Pacific Marine Mammal Center in Orange County (which he’s shared about in numerous TV news stories and on The Ellen Show). Ryan also gives us a peek into what elementary school kids are into right now (besides being business magnates), including challenging Jen to a rousing game of his favorite card game, “War.”  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re winding back the clock and revisiting one of the most pivotal times in our lives: middle school. And guiding us through the junior high hallways of 2019 are Jen’s daughter Remy and her very best friend Ella! These girls have weathered middle school and all its new responsibilities, social commitments, and shifting dynamics with so much grace and heart. And they give us the inside scoop on what’s in (TikTok and Snapchat) and what’s out (*gasp* Instagram!), their best advice to their younger selves (if someone gets mad at you for trying to make new friends, that’s their problem) and what they wish their parents knew (everything is, um, a lot—so maybe give us some space?). Remy and Ella’s friendship is giving us life goals, and the girls remind us that good relationships help make some of the weirdest times not only navigable, but tons of fun. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hit up your locker and meet us in homeroom because today we’re going back to high school with Jen’s very own two high schoolers, Caleb and Ben Hatmaker. High school is a formative experience for all, and Ben and Caleb’s journey will likely resonate with each of us: making great friends, getting buried under homework, trying to make our parents proud. But it’s eye-opening to learn about what Gen Z is dealing with that we didn’t have to: paralyzing academic pressure, a laser-focused emphasis on getting a four-year degree, having an instant connection to information and peers 24/7—it’s a lot. Ben and Caleb reveal what they like about being in Gen Z, and they give us the 411 (*ahem* perhaps under duress) about all the stuff the cool kids are saying (Cap? Dap?) that we immediately plan to use everywhere and make uncool—and they drop a bomb by telling us Agatha Christie has made a comeback. And Jen lays down some old-school wisdom by teaching the boys what a “busy signal” is.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices