One aspect of dating after a breakup or divorce is the terrifying ordeal of being known again. Whether it’s because you can’t imagine opening yourself back up to someone in complete vulnerability or maybe you can’t fathom anyone having enough time to plumb the depths of your idiosyncrasies—I mean, who is ever going to take the time to learn your quirks and help you celebrate them in all their unapologetic glory, again? And how are you going to ever forgive the person who disappointed you and doesn’t want to be your #1 knower anymore? With Jen jumping back in the saddle in the dating world, we needed someone to help us all laugh and sift through post-divorce dating tribulations. Cameron Esposito is a comedian, author, podcast host, actor and recovering Catholic; and we’re delighted to have her lead the way for this episode of the Dating, Sex and Relationships series. Like Jen, Cameron went through a public facing divorce and has since found love and happiness. They talk about the complications of coming into yourself while dating when you’re dealing with grief from divorce, trauma from a strict religious culture, and new unexplored feelings around your gender and body. No stone is left unturned in this conversation and Cameron’s frank and honest storytelling is a balm for those of us afraid of a future that doesn’t look like our past.   * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join the sisterhood in nerdiness today at jenhatmakerbookclub.com.  ABLE | Head to ableclothing.com and use code JEN to get 15% off your order.    Thought-Provoking Quotes “Certainty used to make me feel safe, it felt like guardrails around me and the way that I knew what the rules were, I knew what to do and not to do. Then those began to lose their appeal, of course, and then became their own prison, ultimately. But curiosity is a completely different posture.” – Cameron Esposito  “Queer culture isn't actually about sex, but because it's been criminalized and othered, it also was embraced and the culture was built around it.” – Cameron Esposito  “To not have characters who represent us [in media] is to remove us from the world. If we're not there, you've removed us.” – Cameron Esposito  “If somebody dies and is erased from the planet, then we can go to that person's people and it's a little more clean to understand that that person might feel grief. I think in the case of divorce, that can get really muddled for folks.” – Cameron Esposito    Cameron’s LinksWebsite  Instagram Facebook Twitter   Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re starting a new series that is going to be fire–it’s For the Love of Dating, Sex and Relationships. We’re going to cover a lot of territory over the life of this series–and with this episode we’re going to start with a question; what was it that you learned about sex during the most formative years of your life? Because whether you realize it or not, this can greatly shape how you approach sex as an adult. Maybe you’ve been unraveling what it is you think about sex, how you think about your body, what sex means to you–and you’re tracing it back to what you learned as teenager or young adult–and maybe that education wasn’t positive. To help guide us through making those connections to our early sexual education and how we view sex today is therapist Jay Stringer–returning for his second appearance on the show. Jay pulls back the curtain on the teachings many of us got about sex when we were young. Even if you never were a part of movements like “True Love Waits,” or received lessons on purity culture by your church, or other religious organizations–perhaps there was a rigid sexual space in the childhood home you grew up in. We’re speaking to all the ways sex might have been presented to us with messages of shame. Jay encourages us to look at our sexual stories, seeking ways to find healing and wholeness toward a healthy view of sex. And bonus–for you parents who find talking about sex with your kids akin to a slow, painful death, Jay and Jen talk through ways can engage our kids around sex without the shame approach that a lot of us experienced, and to have those conversations in a loving, age-appropriate way by being open and responsive.   Content Warning: This episode talks extensively about sex, sexuality, and unwanted sexual behaviors, so it may not be suitable for young listeners.  Thought-Provoking Quotes “If you hate your sexual desire, and you are militantly trying to stop it, you are going to develop a very severe and harmful theology, and that's exactly what happened in purity culture.” – Jay Stringer  “I've seen the purity culture really affect women in three particular ways. I would say that it deprioritizes women's sexual pleasure. It set women up for sexual violation. Then, the third, is that it contributed to sexual pain.” – Jay Stringer  “I think one of the greatest myths out there is that you can't change your past. In some ways, the past is far easier to change than the future, in that you can go back to that scared, adolescent girl, and you can begin to mother her. You can ask her, ‘what are the things that you wish that you would have known back in the day?’” – Jay Stringer  “When we don't have language for what we're experiencing or what we're coming out of, we aren't going to have language to be able to create a new sexual world, so we've got to educate ourselves. We've got to get into community and start talking through this stuff in order to rewrite our sexual script.” – Jay Stringer  “View sexual difficulties as a stage to be able to rewrite your story.” – Jay Stringer Jay’s Links: Website - https://jay-stringer.com  Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/JayStringerUnwanted/  Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jay_stringer_/  Twitter - https://twitter.com/_jaystringer  Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/  Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/  Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’ve reached the end friends, sadly Me Camp 2022 is over for the summer. And just like real camp, coming back home is wonderful and bittersweet at the same time. Making new friends, trying new things and getting outside the everyday routine is the magic of camp and Jen reflects on her time in Aspen to her last days in Grand Marais with gratefulness to be able to take this kind of time for herself (and to invite others into the fold, turning MeCamp into WeCamp!). Jen shares how MeCamp began; it started with the need to get away to regroup from a chaotic and heartbreaking season of her life and led to a revelation of what it truly means to take time for yourself to heal. She vowed that she wouldn’t go another year without taking this time, but instead of being born out of sadness, this year’s MeCamp was a deliberate, and joyful excursion. While listing all the the virtues of solo travel, Jen gives us some practical ideas on how we can replicate our own MeCamp— even if we’re not able to travel far or for an extended time. Enjoy this last letter from MeCamp 2022, and let’s start dreaming about our own 2023 MeCamps!   * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   Chime | Get started at chime.com/forthelove today!    Third Love | Head over to thirdlove.com/forthelove to get 20% off your order.    MeCourse | Reconnect with your faith today at mecourse.org.  Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For July 2022, Jen and the club read Sarah Blake’s The Guest Book. Sarah is the author of several books including a book of poetry, the New York Times bestseller The Postmistress, and our book this month, The Guest Book. The Guest Book was a New York Times bestseller, an Amazon Best Book of 2019, and found it’s spot at #1 on the Indie Next List in May of 2019. So join us as Jen and Sarah get into what it looks like to write a book over the course of 9 years, how we can all find growth and understanding in the history of our family, and why it’s so important to continue to evolve over time.    * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   Me Course | Reconnect with your faith today at mecourse.org.    Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join the sisterhood in nerdiness at jenhatmakerbookclub.com  Thought-Provoking Quotes   “When Obama was running for president in 2008, he reminded us that his presidency was going to kick off a kind of racial awareness. And he especially invoked Faulkner's line, ‘the past isn't dead in this country, it isn't even past.’ And so I wanted to think about why that is, and it seems that doing the family novel was going to help.”  – Sarah Blake   “We are often echoing or repeating our parents or grandparents without knowing that's what we're doing because we don't know fully who they are. I really wanted to think about that, or I wanted the novel to think about that.”  – Sarah Blake    “I wanted this novel to take a look at the history of racism and antisemitism. And in particular, I wanted to look at it in terms of my family. What was the history inside?”  – Sarah Blake     Sarah’s LinksWebsite  Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeBliss - Katherine Mansfield  The Lighthouse Keeper’s Daughters - Hazel Gaynor  To the Lighthouse - Virginia Woolf A Ghost in the Throat - Doireann Ní Ghríofa    Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description With MeCamp on the tail end of it’s 2022 tenure, Jen is still traversing the wilds of Minnesota, trespassing on neighboring roofs to read her book, and bring her beloveds along on the ride with her. So as we enter week 3, Jen’s best girlfriends arrive for 4 days, followed by a visit from our favorite Hatmaker sisters, Remy and Sydney. Jen also gives her takeaways on the value of carving out this kind of time in your life–whether it’s a few days in a tent a couple of miles from your house, or a staycation in a nearby town–it’s really about the time for YOU, and less about where you go or how long you retreat. But for now, as we live vicariously through Jen in Minnesota this week, we’ll visit the local country store, walk between 400 and 4 million stairs on a hike, bike along the lake, and happily wear sweatshirts in July.   * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   Rothy’s | Get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/forthelove.    Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove.    ABLE | Get 15% off sitewide using code JEN at ableclothing.com.    Me Course Faith | Open the door to your faith journey today at mecourse.org.  Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This year’s Me Camp is in full swing, community. We have traveled from Austin to Aspen, and now up, up, up to the Northwoods of Minnesota, where we find ourselves in Grand Marais. Nestled on the shores of Lake Superior, this teeny tiny town was home to Jen for 3 weeks. And she is doing it all. Eating a plethora of fried fish salads, skipping rocks in the bay, potentially trespassing to sit on a picturesque roof and read her book and drink her wine. BONUS: Jen is joined by none other than the man of the moment Tyler Merritt, who discusses his unique state of being in the great white north, and his surprising and ever-so-northeastern encounter with a music-loving octogenarian.    * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   Me Camp Merch | Grab your merch today at jenhatmaker.com/shop!    Me Course Faith | Open the door to your faith journey today at mecourse.org.    FOCL | Get 20% off at focl.com using code FORTHELOVE to grab your new favorites today.    Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeThe Lighthouse Keeper’s Daughter - Hazel Gaynor    Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You guys, it’s time again for us to load up the suitcases, grab the comfy shoes, and head on out to Me Camp 2022. What is MeCamp you say? Jen took an extended solo trip to Maine last year after a really tough season. What she thought might be lonely and maybe a bit TOO reflective became something so rejuvenating and powerful in her life, she couldn’t keep it to herself and began sharing her experiences online with her community. So this year, she decided to mix it up and do some more solo travel (and add some friends in the mix during the time) and pull in her podcast community for all the insight, learnings and fun. This year, join Jen as she spends time in the beautiful Rocky Mountains for week 1 of MeCamp 2022! Binge Jen’s first full week while she hits the town with an open heart and mind, eats where the locals eat, and shop where they shop. Bonus tidbits: she visits the Aspen Ideas Festival, a space filled with some of the smartest humans alive (and maybe a random Katie Couric spotting!). Join us as all (even you folks from Aspen, who might have spotted Jen out there) as we all live vicariously through Jen’s trip to rest, reflect, and learn.    * * *   Thank you to our sponsors!   Betterhelp | Head to betterhelp.com/forthelove to get 10% off your first month.    Liquid IV | Get 25% off at liquidiv.com using the code FORTHELOVE at checkout.    Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join the sisterhood in nerdiness today at jenhatmakerbookclub.com!    Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeAspen Ideas Festival  Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The past few weeks have been so nurturing to the collective soul of this podcast community. We have gotten together with a friend, and caught up on all that matters in our worlds (as friends do) and talked through the changes we’ve both faced recently, on finding and keeping friendship alive at this season in our lives, and how we’ve each evolved in our own beliefs. And we’re always a little sad to say goodbye to friends, but we know that the bonds we’ve built here will keep us going til we can meet again. For the last episode of the For the Love of Conversations series, Jen and Kelly share about the men in their lives–from their friends, to their sons, their brothers, fathers and their partners—we speak to the unique relationship the opposite sex brings to our lives. And right now in our culture, in some ways that are fair, and other ways that aren't, men are getting thrown under the bus, somewhat carte blanche. And this is rightly so in many cases and much overdue in some areas. But it still stands that there are good men and boys in our culture, men that defy the misogynistic stereotypes, and they do lift up women and are there for their sisters and their wives and their daughters and their mothers. Jen and Kelly poke at the view of men where they are portrayed as wild and rough and emotionally unregulated–those traits can sometimes be found–but they share stories of their fathers, brothers and friends that show the reverse can be true (Kelly’s story about her dad is a 10-kleenex-er, so get ready), and that the men in their lives have truly taught them how to love better.    * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   Chime | Get started at chime.com/forthelove to start today!    Catalina Crunch | Head to catalinacrunch.com/forthelove to get 15% off your first order plus free shipping.    MeCourse | Save $20 on the parenting MeCourse using the code Parenting20 at mecourse.org. You can also get half off all 4 courses using the code 4CourseBundle. Thought-Provoking Quotes “Isn't it funny how lucky we can get when the women that we love have men that we love too?”  – Jen Hatmaker    “A table is better with women at it, it also holds that a table is better with men at it. It shouldn't be a room full of either.” – Kelly Corrigan    “It's not true that boys don't have feelings. It's not true that they don't love deeply. It's not true that love doesn't cut them just as deep as it does girls. It's not true that they're not scared to ask a girl to prom. They are tender. It's just the packaging is so wild.” – Jen Hatmaker    “I think we have this metric for coming close to somebody that we love in their pain or in their suffering, that we've got to hit the right notes. We've got to get the formula right. That's not really how suffering works. It's just that you have to do this, but we'll make sure you're just not alone while you're doing it. That's enough.” – Jen Hatmaker  “My parents set a really good example for me of being deeply connected to their friends, the men, the women, everybody. And so I never knew that that wasn't a thing. I just assumed you grow up and you create deep and lasting relationships with the men and women in your life. That's just how you live.”  – Jen Hatmaker  Kelly’s LinksWebsite  Instagram Kelly’s Podcast, Kelly Corrigan Wonders  Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeKate Baer  Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome back to another episode of our For the Love of Conversations series with one of Jen’s best loved friends, author, speaker and podcaster Kelly Corrigan. Both Jen and Kelly have seen strong beliefs give way to new beliefs, and old beliefs be tested by time and experience. It's a wonder to learn as you move through the world, even if those lessons are hard won and hands down, a ton of them are. It's a beautiful and redemptive thing to take a step back and level the playing field you are on–in whatever season of life you’re in–and see if everything that makes up “you:” all the stories you tell yourself about your life and other people and what happened to you and even about your own self–that composite of what you believe. And take heart in knowing that your beliefs don’t have to remain the same forever– they can grow and change with us. Jen and Kelly go deep into what beliefs they hold dear, how the truth that binds us might look a little different than it used to for all of us, and the comfort they find in a community that lives with a sense of curiosity and how to keep that alive for every phase of our beliefs.   * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   Rothy’s | Get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/forthelove.    KiwiCo | Get 50% off your first month plus free shipping on any crate line at kiwico.com using code FORTHELOVE.    Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove.  Thought-Provoking Quotes   “I think we're built to evaluate instantly friend or foe. I think that's our evolutionary nature, but we're not on the Savannah anymore. We can take a minute to make that judgment. In fact, the longer we can hold off on making that judgment, maybe the more interesting people and stories we’ll be able to consume in a lifetime.” – Kelly Corrigan    “None of us have everything exactly right because that's not a thing. There's no such thing as always right or always wrong. I just think we would become so much more interesting as a people if we were able to humbly take in a person's differing experience, or opinion, or worry. Those are the people that I want in my life right now. Those are the ones.” – Jen Hatmaker    “We can all love each other and not believe the same things. That's just not a requirement.” – Kelly Corrigan    “Is your version of faith making you kinder, is it making you more loving, is it making you more humble, is it creating peace around you, is it good to other people? That's a kind of faith I can get behind. If it's making you mean, and angry, and hateful, and scared, that needs reexamining.” – Jen Hatmaker  Kelly’s LinksWebsite  Instagram Kelly’s Podcast, Kelly Corrigan Wonders    Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeKate Baer  Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Friendship is one of those gifts in life we can run to when it feels like the rest of the world just doesn’t get us. On a day when life hasn’t been cooperating exactly as you’d hoped, who hasn’t called that friend we can vent to, cry to, laugh with, and compare notes with? And the longer a friendship goes, the deeper the bond seems to be. But some of us are in spaces in our lives where we’ve had to follow another dream and leave the proximity of our friends. And the work of friendship takes on a different layer. It can be difficult to connect like we used to–even if it was just dropping by to say hi because you could–it’s harder to keep relationships alive when you don’t see your friend daily, weekly, or even monthly. In this second installment of our For the Love of Conversations with Jen and Kelly, we are talking all about friendship and how it changes as you mature, grow, and perhaps even re-locate. And how to keep it going strong—even across the divides of family commitments, jobs, and miles in between. Jen and Kelly first had this conversation over on Kelly’s podcast, but we loved it so much we had to share it here–plus–-Jen has added some of her own insights and comments regarding her friendship with Kelly and what she learned through their conversation.  * * * Kelly’s Links: Website - https://www.kellycorrigan.com  Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kellycorrigan/?hl=en  Kelly’s Podcast, Kelly Corrigan Wonders - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/podcast  Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the Love of Friendships: Savoring Your Friendships with Shauna Niequist - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcast/series-01/savoring-your-friendships-with-shauna-niequist/  Kate Baer - https://www.katebaer.com  Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/  Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/  Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You know there really isn’t much that’s more comforting than sitting down with one of your friends and talking openly because you know they just get you. They have seen you grow and change and evolve and become who you are today–and they don’t try to stand in the way of that change however hard it may be for them, or for you. These conversations with friends are life-giving. And with that in mind, we thought it might be fun to have a series of conversations here in our podcast community with our best and brightest friends and dispensers of wisdom and humor. And our first conversation partner for this 4-part series is none other than one of our favorite humans herself–author, podcaster and speaker Kelly Corrigan. This first installment of For the Love of Conversations will bring us 4 weeks from Kelly’s own show, Kelly Corrigan Wonders, with new thoughts and insights from Jen herself at the front of each episode. To kick things off, Kelly and Jen tackle the good, the bad, and the ugliest parts of change. We all know that change is hard, not just for us, but for our people–and that pesky inability to see the future makes it even harder. Jen and Kelly lean into the notion that change can be beautiful. It helps us create the life we want for ourselves while growing us into the people we’ve always wanted to be.    * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove.    Stamps.com | Head to stamps.com using code FORTHELOVE to start your four week trial today.    MeCourse | Save $20 on the parenting MeCourse using the code Parenting20 at mecourse.org. You can also get half off all 4 courses using the code 4CourseBundle. Thought-Provoking Quotes “Change, although it can be literally devastating, can also, and generally does, turn out to be a great and wonderful good.” – Jen Hatmaker   “There's something in us, even in the worst possible scenario that compels us to live, that compels us to recover and to reach for hope and light and love.” – Jen Hatmaker   “Somebody is going to make you laugh just when you thought you might never smile again. You get to borrow from their life force until your own returns.” – Jen Hatmaker   “In chasing change the risk is worth the reward as it makes us fuller, rounder, more compassionate human people. It brings us closer to alignment, into what we love, what we're good at, what has meaning to us, what brings us to life.” – Jen Hatmaker   Kelly’s LinksWebsite  Instagram Kelly’s Podcast, Kelly Corrigan Wonders    Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can’t Stop Talking - Susan Cain The Middle Place - Kelly Corrigan Worst End of School Year Mom Ever - Jen Hatmaker  Simple Habit App  Kate Baer    Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As we come to the end of our Favorite Pastimes series, we hope you are filling your summer with your favorite activities —and maybe some new ones we’ve talked about here! Our series wouldn’t be complete without a conversation about one universal pastime that is approached with either love or loathing—cooking!  Perhaps cooking has become nothing but drudgery for you and those ungrateful kids who eye your culinary masterpieces with disdain have made you turn to slinging out Lunchables and microwave mac and cheese. Or maybe you are single and cooking for one seems like a chore. Or maybe you *think* cooking could be your thing but you’re intimidated by the lingo and measurements and if you have the right appliances (Hot Pots! Air Fryers! Immersion Blenders! Oh my!). No matter where you fall on the cooking spectrum, easy and delicious summer cooking is within your reach and we have a guest who is here to help us claim our cooking identity. Teri Turner is an author, home cook, and podcast host who has turned her love of the kitchen into a whole career for herself. Her mantra is “It’s Just Food,” —takes the pressure off, right? She encourages us to find our “food thing” and how we can perfect that signature dish that will have even the most skeptical palates coming back for more. Teri’s tips include Whole30 options, gluten free dishes—she leaves nothing behind. Teri makes cooking seem accessible to us all—and promises our kitchens can be places of joy and magic-making.    * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   Pair | Get glasses as unique as you are at paireyewear.com/forthelove for 15% off your first purchase.  Thought-Provoking Quotes   “I love sharing inspiration for food and I love tips and tricks to get you in the kitchen and to cook real food, because all of us are on our phones all the time. We're busy, we’re going out to eat. And we just have to get back to take a breath and get back to cooking some beautiful food. And find the joy that comes from cooking food, eating it with friends, and the celebration of cooking.” – Teri Turner   “Here’s the thing, we have to eat anyway so we might as well surrender to it and allow cooking to be something spectacular and fun.”  – Teri Turner    “Go for what you want and make it happen and believe in yourself. And by the way have a lot of fun doing it.”  – Teri Turner   Teri’s LinksWebsite  Table Talks Podcast Facebook  Instagram  Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeNo Crumbs Left : Whole30 Endorsed, Recipes for Everyday Food Made Marvelous - Teri Turner Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For May 2022, Jen and the club read Abi Dare’s The Girl With The Louding Voice. Abi is originally from Lagos, Nigeria and went on to study law in the UK at the University of Wolverhampton and eventually earned her MA in Creative Writing at Birkbeck, University of London. Not only is she an incredible writer, she is also a major advocate for women’s education. Her husband inspired her to write this book and it came about after discussing how they saw housemaids treated during their childhood. The Girl With The Louding Voice was a New York Times Bestseller, a #ReadWithJenna Today Show book club pick, and it was an Indie Next Pick. This story whipped up a ton of talk and for a good reason, it helps folks see the impact lack of education, opportunity, and freedom can have on young girls across the world. So without further ado, please enjoy this conversation with author extraordinaire, Abi Dare.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   Betterhelp | Head to betterhelp.com/forthelove for 10% off your first month.    MeCourse | Save $20 on the parenting MeCourse using the code Parenting20 at mecourse.org. You can also get half off all 4 courses using the code 4CourseBundle.   ABLE | Head to ableclothing.com and get 15% off sitewide using code JEN.  Thought-Provoking Quotes   “I knew I wanted to tell a story of a young girl who was semi illiterate and had only three years of education. And that was very different from who I am. And so I decided to try to create a character that I could give her the story that she deserves.” – Abi Dare    “In your own little tiny way, and with tiny little gestures of kindness of reaching out, you can change a life. And you can make a difference.” – Abi Dare    Abi’s LinksInstagram  Twitter   Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeBig Little Lies - Liane Moriarty  My Sister, The Serial Killer - Oyinkan Braithwaite  Open Water - Caleb Azuma Nelson  Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Time to grab your passport and packing cubes! The world’s back open for travel—and if you’ve tried to book a trip recently, you know that, hello, the prices are a smidge higher than they used to be. But with a little planning and a lot of advice from The Points Guy, you can rack up the credit card points that’ll get you to unforgettable destinations around the world for a fraction of the price! Brian Kelly, The Points Guy himself, joins Jen to share how he turned his love of a good deal into a lifestyle brand sharing travel how-to’s for every budget from every corner of the planet (it’s a *wild* story!). Brian tips his hand on the best-kept trips you need to take at home and abroad, how you can earn enough points for a free flight to Europe in 90 days, all while building a credit score that can unlock opportunities at home while you plan your next getaway. #practical This episode is a treasure trove of travel tips, so grab a pen and paper—and maybe a fruity drink with an umbrella—because your next adventure is closer than you think!  * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   Rothy’s | Get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/forthelove.    KiwiCo | Get 50% off your first month plus free shipping on any crate line at kiwico.com using code FORTHELOVE.    Chime | Head to chime.com/forthelove to get started today! Thought-Provoking Quotes “I think what I've done with points is take this really granular boring subject and kind of make it fun and ‘look what I can do.’ And being 6'7" whenever I test out airline seats and hotels, I'm like, If I can be comfortable in this seat you can too. And I added my own personality into it whereas a lot of other bloggers were kind of clinical and just taking pictures of the plane seat and the plane whereas I kind of injected a little fabulousity into it.” – Brian Kelly    “I just want to put this out there for people: if you're paying with cash or debit card, you're paying for my points. . . . When you pay cash, you're losing money because you're not getting the rewards that are built into the cost of goods.” – Brian Kelly   “When you find amazing deals, book it because most airlines will let you cancel within a day. So don't call all your friends and try to herd the cats on taking the trip, book the flight and then take 24 hours to double check you can do it. Book now, think later, that's my advice.” – Brian Kelly    “The coolest thing about points is that you can get points for free, essentially. In the US it's so lucrative—no other country can you get points paying your rent or doing online shopping. And so basically what you want to do, the foundation of any good points strategy, is maximizing your spending.” – Brian Kelly    “There's certain places you go that are just spiritual that have that energy and it's Guatemala, the food, it's safe. I've been to Guatemala multiple times, and everyone I take is like, ‘This is amazing, why doesn't everyone go here?’” – Brian Kelly    “I do believe people become better people, the more of the world they travel. You realize that other people are not scary, they're actually amazing.” – Brian Kelly  Bryan’s LinksBrian’s website, The Points Guy  Brian’s Instagram  Brian’s farm, Carbon Ridge Animal Sanctuary Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When it comes to hobbies and pastimes, the inspiration can be drawn from anywhere. Maybe it was something you did during the summer as a kid, or it was an activity you loved to do with your mom in her freetime. No matter where your inspiration stems from, perhaps you’ve returned to it today and it brings you peace, comfort and even healing. Our guest this week was diagnosed 15 years ago with Celiac Disease, with neurological implications that put her in a wheelchair. Looking for solace and healing, she turned to her two favorite things: reading and gluten free baking. Stephanie Hockersmith, aka, PieLadyBooks, took her therapeutic pastime and has turned it into an absolutely amazing Instagram page and now small business (and healer herself in the process)! She takes covers of her favorite books and turns them into the most incredible pies you have ever seen! If you are curious like we were when we first met Stephanie, be sure to head over to watch this episode on YouTube as we’ll be sharing some of the incredible pies she’s created there. You’ll be inspired as Stephanie talks about how she stumbled into this art, how it guided her healing process, and why believing in yourself creates magic if you let it.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   Pair | Get glasses as unique as you are at paireyewear.com/forthelove for 15% off your first purchase.    Me Course | Save $20 on the parenting MeCourse using the code Parenting20 at mecourse.org. You can also get half off all 4 courses using the code 4CourseBundle.   Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Head to jenhatmakerbookclub.com to join our sisterhood in nerdiness today.    ABLE | Head over to ableclothing.com and use code JEN to save 15% on anything. Thought-Provoking Quotes “I got really, really sick about 15 years ago. It was actually celiac disease. My husband really loved pies, so I thought, "You know what? I'm going to try to really master a yummy gluten-free pie.” I just researched and researched and researched and it kept me alive in a lot of ways. As you're healing and your body's getting stronger, I had this project to work on, and so I started making these really beautiful pies.” – Stephanie Hockersmith   “It's exciting to see magic in yourself and to see yourself as something magical. I have a really hard time embracing that but pie making has helped me.” – Stephanie Hockersmith   “I am abundantly grateful. It is the most weird little niche I could have ever imagined. I never expected it, and if I could say that to anybody it's I went from being in a wheelchair 15 years ago to The Today Show last week. So you just never know where your journey's going to go.” – Stephanie Hockersmith   “Don't give up and keep fighting for that magical part of you that makes you feel alive, because it's crucial to who we are and allows us to pour out into others in such big ways.” – Stephanie Hockersmith   “For anyone looking to find their creative niche, I would say to just start. Start something, find something that gives you spark.” – Stephanie Hockersmith   Stephanie’s LinksInstagram Facebook  Stephanie’s Girl Power Playlist  Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeToday Show Appearance  The Smallest Part - Amy Harmon  Untamed - Glennon Doyle  All The Blues Come Through - Metra Farrari  The Girl With The Louding Voice - Abi Dare  All Along You Were Blooming - Morgan Harper Nichols  With The Fire on High - Elizabeth Acevedo  Fight Song - Rachel Platten  Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Aren’t we all inspired by people who have taken their favorite hobby, or their little side hustle, or their craft–and they invested in it, they loved it so much that it became their main thing? In this series, we’ve introduced a variety of pastimes we all can enjoy this summer–the kinds of things that give us that break from the daily grind–but in doing so, we’re also talking to folks who took the leap to make their pastime their career. And in this episode, we’re giving a nod to a pastime that’s been exploding over the past few years–a love for plants and gardening! For many, gardening has long been a part of their favorite pastimes, but we’re seeing it become more accessible to weekend gardeners, others who thought they could never be good at it, or those who thought the whole proposition of keeping another living thing fed and watered was overwhelming at best. Marcus Bridgewater, aka, Garden Marcus, is our horticultural guide to the secret of growing healthy plants, and simultaneously, becoming more healthy ourselves. He presides over an insanely popular Instagram account, is a content creator and a CEO of his company Choice Forward, where he offers workshops, presentations, life coaching, and more to empower individuals and strengthen communities. Jen shares the story of her metamorphosis from becoming a plant murderer to plant mom with the advent of two little hanging plants entrusted to her by friends in a season where she was struggling to nurture herself; much less two plants. Marcus also gives us a peek into his new book, How to Grow: Nurture Your Garden, Nurture Yourself, and shows that it is possible to keep ourselves, our loved ones and our plants thriving and growing.   * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove.   MeCourse | Save $20 on the parenting MeCourse using the code Parenting20 at mecourse.org. You can also get half off all 4 courses using the code 4CourseBundle.   ABLE | Head over to ableclothing.com and use code JEN to save 15% on anything. Thought-Provoking Quotes   “Not to deter people from plant care, but taking care of plants can be a science in a way. There are lots of levels of thought and things to consider, lots of variables that affect them, but the rewards are so cosmic that it makes all of that effort worth it.” – Marcus Bridgewater   “Every time I walked into the garden, it made me a better teacher, it made me a better friend, a better person.” – Marcus Bridgewater “All living things respond to vibration. Your voice is a collection of vibrations, and so this means your voice can be a valuable tool if you use it wisely. So, be conscious of how you use your voice, because if you're not using your voice with kindness, chances are you're not building community.” – Marcus Bridgewater   “There's no reason to not get plants, but there is also no reason to have them and have them decline and have them cost you. They're an incredible tool and that tool can become a vice if we are not conscious.” – Marcus Bridgewater   “We need to plant seeds of love, kindness, patience, and positivity so that we can grow wholesome roots, that will yield trees of prosperity, which will then yield fruits of success that we can all enjoy. And I think that if we are more conscious of those seeds, we can live in a future that has a forest of prosperity for us to all enjoy.” – Marcus Bridgewater  Marcus’s LinksWebsite Facebook  Instagram Twitter   Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeChoice Forward  How to Grow: Nurture Your Garden, Nurture Yourself - Marcus Bridgewater  Dana Hammarstrom - Co-Founder of Choice Forward    Plants Mentioned From Easiest to Hardest to Maintain Philodendron Giganteum Dieffenbachia Silver Sword Philodendron Asparagus Fern  Bromeliads Pothos  Sweet Potato Ivy  Snake Plants  Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As we continue on in our Favorite Pastime series, we’re reveling in all the opportunities that are hiding in plain sight–through the beloved activities, we cherish in our spare time. No spare time, you say? We understand—and that’s where our series has a delightful twist–these folks took their passions and hobbies and turned them from hobbies into full-fledged careers. So you think those toaster cozies you like to knit can’t be a full time gig? Think again–we’ve got creators, makers and dreamers of all ilks–and this week’s guest is one for the books! She is an artist, a poet, a driftwood collecting connoisseur–yes you heard us right–and she is creating the most unique, beautiful and accessible art that you would ever hope to see. Jaime Kurowski has always felt the call to pursue art, as it’s ingrained in her family tree. So when she took a sabbatical from teaching to pursue her driftwood creations, it wasn’t a big surprise for anyone. But like many creatives, her work comes from a place of darkness. One devastating event led to another and Jaime found herself seeking healing from her profound emotional and physical brokenness. Part of her healing was finding a new way to unwind, express herself, and put light into the world. She came through that rough season and now has a company of her own that is thriving, and also heads up a collective of female business owners and artists who have gone through similar journeys, who all focus on finding the audacity to believe in themselves and their talents.   * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   Stamps.com | Sign up for your 4-week trial today at stamps.com using code FORTHELOVE.    MeCourse | Save $20 on the parenting MeCourse using the code Parenting20 at mecourse.org. You can also get half off all 4 courses using the code 4CourseBundle.   Catalina Crunch | Head to catalinacrunch.com/forthelove for 15% off your first order plus free shipping.  Thought-Provoking Quotes   “This is my first year where I'm a full-time creative, and I'm reinventing the things that I loved about teaching, my passion for creative writing, and my passion for the words that we have on repeat in our head, women, adults, and children. And then using the driftwood to give it art.” – Jaime Kurowski    “She was free. And when she returned to the trees, she dressed herself in lovely, placed flowers in her hair. Let sensuality slip off her shoulder, slipped strength upon her feet, looked down at this solid ground and finally stepped into herself.” – an excerpt from a poem by Jaime Kurowski  “If you ask a fourth grade class what they have on repeat, they're like, ‘I'm stupid,’ or ‘I'm ugly.’ And the confidence camp that I did for them to have a place to not be alone in that, is everything to me.” – Jaime Kurowski    Jaime’s LinksWebsite Instagram Facebook Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeThe Make(Her) Collective The Make(Her) Collective Website  For the Love of the Elephant in the Room: Grief on Your Terms with Sal & Im  Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with another episode in our For the Love of Favorite Pastimes series, and this week, we’re talking about the great outdoors. And in case you think this topic is just for those of you who find their greatest joy loading up piles of gear to go hiking for 20 miles every weekend, or for all the rabid runners, cyclists, swimmers, campers, and the rest of you that make the other half of us real, real tired––there’s something for all of us who may like being outside, even those who aren’t necessarily the outdoorsy type. Maybe your jam is barbecuing outside with friends, or sitting on your porch swing à la Jen Hatmaker. At the end of the day ,we can all agree (and science proves) that spending time in nature makes a person happier. And that’s the message this week’s guest is taking to the masses. Ben Steele is the Chief Customer Officer at REI - the nation’s largest consumer co-op for the outdoor community. Ben didn’t grow up with an innate love for nature, even though it was a part of his family’s life in Idaho. It wasn’t until he found his own outdoor personality as an adult that he truly appreciated the benefits of spending time outside (and surprise– it doesn’t have to involve driving miles away from home or having oodles of gear).   * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   Rothy’s | Get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/forthelove.    KiwiCo | Get 30% off your first month plus free shipping on any crate line at kiwico.com using code FORTHELOVE.    Betterhelp | Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/forthelove and get 10% off your first month.  Thought-Provoking Quotes “There is science that says when folks have access to green spaces, have access to clean air, have access to time outside, you're healthier as an individual and at a societal level.” – Ben Steele   “The only part of your day you truly control is what time you get up. So I get up early to get my time outdoors every day on the weekdays. And there's definitely days I'd rather stay in bed, but if I put it off for the end of the day, there's always something that comes up.” – Ben Steele   “The outside is not an equally safe space for everybody. It's certainly true for women. It's certainly true for people of color. It's certainly true for even different identity groups. And so we've got to be honest about everything from racist naming of outdoor places, to a legacy of stolen land, to the reality that, depending on who I am, I may not feel that comfortable outside or around other people.” – Ben Steele   “Relatively early in COVID [REI] had built a beautiful new headquarters and we sold it. We made the decision that we'd rather have these dollars working for our employees, working for our customers, working for our business. So we've been in a virtual environment with a couple of satellite offices for the last few years. And that was a big change for our headquarters. We're trying to recognize, ‘wow, my days at home are really efficient and really effective and productive. My days in the office are really connected.’ Both of those things matter.” - Ben Steele on achieving work life balance.    “I think for somebody who says I'm not an outdoors person, I'm not outdoorsy. I think what I'd ask is what they like to do outside? And it might be a barbecue in the backyard with their family. They love to sit on the front porch and watch the world go by. They love to watch a sunset or they love birds. Whatever you like, find a way to pursue that.” – Ben Steele Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeREI Co-Op  REI Gear Trade-In Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For April 2022, Jen and the club read Sarah Penner’s The Lost Apothecary. Sarah began writing seriously back in 2015 after attending a lecture by one of our favorite authors–Elizabeth Gilbert. Soon after that moment, Sarah enrolled in her first creative writing class, and y’all, how lucky are we that she did. Her book, The Lost Apothecary, was an instant success. It debuted at #7 on the New York Times bestseller list, and has been translated into over 40 languages. Based on a real-life mudlarking discovery (and yes, she explains what that is), Sarah takes us back in time to see how one woman created space for women everywhere to do what they needed to do. So, we are more than thrilled to bring this conversation to you all with the wonderful and talented Sarah Penner.   * * *   Thank you to our sponsors!   Stamps.com | Start your trial today using promo code FORTHELOVE at stamps.com.  Thought-Provoking Quotes   “I don't think Nella is a hero or a villain. I think she's somewhere in the middle. And that's how all of us are really, none of us are heroes. None of us are villains. We're all somewhere in the middle.” – Sarah Penner    “Sometimes we can meet someone and just form an instant friendship, sisterhood, connection, whatever you want to call it. And those can be the people that are most impactful in our lives. We don't need to only rely on these friends that we've had our whole lives. Sometimes the people that we need the most are just right there in the near vicinity.” – Sarah Penner    "Betrayal is part of the human experience. And one of the most enjoyable things about writing this book was I was able to compare and contrast how things were different with 200 years between them. And one of the main things that was the same is how we are all hurt by people that we love. And 200 years from now, nothing will have changed." – Sarah Penner   Sarah’s LinksWebsite Instagram Twitter    Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeI Capture the Castle - Dodie Smith Bloomsbury Girls - Natalie Jenner Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What’s your favorite pastime (go with us here, we know that lots of us don’t even know the concept of having time for a pastime). Imagine being able to really spend time in your garden, instead of just hoping it will rain or the rabbits don’t eat your bounty. Think about being able to carve out some time to write–really giving some thought and intention to your journal or that spark of a story you’ve been thinking about for awhile. Taking time for what matters to us, aside from doing the things we need to (and yes, that matters to) is like nurturing our soul–it helps us become fuller versions of ourselves, and in the end, those respites make us better at our “real” jobs/routine/duties. That’s why this series is coming in hot–to help us make that step in allowing that outside passion to become a part of our weekly schedule. For the Love of Favorite Pastimes delves into how to identify the things that spark joy and passion in our days, and give ourselves space for them–no matter how small that space may be. And to kick this whole series off, we are thrilled to welcome friends of the show and Jen, Amie and Jolie of the Junk Gypsies. Now, we know you all know who these ladies are and we can’t believe it’s taken so long to get them on the show. But, now that we have them, we will be talking to them about their side passion (and how that turned into a full time business), how they pursued it with nothing more than a pick-up truck and a dream, and how their love for other people’s junk turned into a treasured way of life.   * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   Chime | Get started today at chime.com/forthelove.    Pair | Get glasses as unique as you are, starting at just $60 at paireyewear.com/forthelove to get 15% off your pfirst urchase.   Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join our sisterhood in nerdiness today at jenhatmakerbookclub.com  Thought-Provoking Quotes   "Between college and retirement, there's a mindset that if you don't really like it, you'll just work until retirement anyway. And we were like 'No, we don't want that,' and money was never the most important thing. It was always about quality of life." - Amie Sikes    “We don't have a plan of what's going to happen next year. But we stay open-minded and we don't stay too rigid as we try to bend and flow and be open to opportunities. But we've said no to some that we probably should have said yes to, and yes to some we probably should have said no to.” - Jolie Sikes    “We started doing dressers and side tables and eventually working our own aesthetic into it. So all of a sudden, it's becoming not just a booth where you buy furniture, but your customers are buying into our lifestyle.” - Amie Sikes    “The way we dress, the way we decorate, it's a reflection of you so why would it be boring? You're not boring. So if your home is a reflection of you and your adventures and personality, why would you want everything the same color?” - Jolie Sikes  Junk Gypsies LinksWebsite Facebook  Instagram   Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re wrapping up our Faith Shakers series this week, and we hope you’ve found it as eye-opening and enlightening as we have to see what people of faith in non-traditional spaces have been doing to make the world a better, more thoughtful place. This episode takes us to yet another unique space where faith and art are being combined to great effect--and it’s through poetry. In case you’re having flashbacks to Shakespearean sonnets you had to study in high school, fear not. We’re going beyond poetry to recognize the beauty in the lyrics we love from our favorite songs, to the way thoughts are constructed by deep thinkers like modern poet Maya Angelou. Language, words, and poetry have always been a tool deeply embedded inside any sort of faith search. So this week, we welcome a poet who also happens to be a theologian, and he's going to walk us through the powerful ways that poetry can bring healing, hope, and reconciliation, Pádraig Ó Tuama is a poet and theologian whose work centers around language, power, conflict, politics, and religion. For several years, he was the leader of Corrymeela Community—Ireland's oldest organization focused on religious reconciliation. He’s also the in-house theologian for the NPR show On Being, with Krista Tippet. Pádraig focuses on conflict resolution who dedicates his life to creating safe spaces for all people within the religious realm. He shows us all that communication, understanding, and landing in the gray space is the way forward and that we can all find our faith space, no matter who we are or where we come from.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove   OSEA | Get 10% off your first order using promo code FORTHELOVE at oseamalibu.com    Thistle Farms | Get 15% off at thistlefarms.org using promo code FORTHELOVE Thought-Provoking Quotes   "Conflict can be the place for brilliant friendships to thrive, and experience electricity for themselves. So sometimes you want to amplify conflict because it's really fruitful, energetic, and creative. But when it gets violent, or destructive, or fruitless, then it needs to be resolved." – Padraig O Tuama    “I have no interest in whether somebody does or doesn't believe in God. I have no interest in whether we agree. That doesn't interest me at all. I hope we don't, I don't agree with myself, so I don't really agree with anybody else.” – Padraig O Tuama    "I have a deep interest in wondering, 'do the words we use help us make some kind of sense of the world?' And when there's no sense to be made, do the words we use help give our grief voice?" – Padraig O Tuama    “So much of the work of peace can be undone by the peace field being partitioned, and segregated, and fighting amongst itself.” – Padraig O Tuama    “I'm uninterested in neutrality. I am interested in fairness and trustability.” – Padraig O Tuama   "If you were to gather all the authors of the bible, and put them in a field, I think they would hate each other at times. They would not agree with each other on this word of God, or the question of God. And as a result, I thought, ‘Oh my God, there's room for me.’" – Padraig O Tuama  Padraig’s LinksWebsite Facebook Instagram  Twitter Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the past, questioning the spiritual majority was unacceptable. Not only were people of faith expected to fall into line and just accept what was laid out by church leaders, but they were also expected to carry those beliefs throughout their entire lives–even when those tenets no longer aligned with their own values. And if they dropped them? Well, then they likely got dropped by their faith institutions. Fortunately for us all, there have been some quiet trail blazers who have been pushing at the edges of those institutions, asking hard questions, and paving the way for so many of us to shift and develop and grow our faith into living, breathing entities that enhance life–instead of being burdensome. One of those trailblazers joins us this week—the creator and host of the On Being radio show (and podcast) on NPR–Krista Tippet. Krista, like so many of us, grew up entrenched in the church–going three times a week, including Wednesday night suppers (we never turn down a potluck here) and it was her family’s main social life and community. Since beginning her career as a journalist Krista began to see that whenever religion was discussed in public, in the news or on public radio, it had the effect of shutting people's imaginations down. She wanted to show people that you could talk about it, and we could speak about the part of ourselves that we’re referring to when we use the words “religious or spiritual” in a way that allowed for questions and differing opinions. Now, 20 years and hundreds of fascinating interviews later, she has changed the way we talk about faith publicly and allowed space for it to be full of inquisitiveness and beautiful mystery–enabling so many to find a faith that feels like home to them. You’ll want to be sure to listen all the way to the end where Krista reveals the surprising reason she started her show, On Being, and the touching situation that is saving her life right now.   Thank you to our sponsors! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “How we do school, how we do medicine, how we do law, how we do politics, how we do church, how we've done religion. They don't make sense for who we are becoming and what we're learning, and how we live, and the way our technologies have upended things.” – Krista Tippett  "I have developed this absolute delight in mystery, and I also believe mystery is orthodoxy right? We are told there are things we will not understand in this lifetime. And standing before that with reverence and humility is part of being devout. For me, this all works together now and it feels like an adventure." – Krista Tippett   “We live in this time when faith is evolving, and our traditions are evolving, and our experience of [faith] is evolving. We are evolving.” – Krista Tippett  “Depression, it's so hard to describe, although so many people have been through it now. It's not just not having a sense of hope or joy, or what those might look like in the future. It's not being able to imagine how that ever felt or that it could possibly ever happen again. The bottom fell out of my understanding–all these things I had told myself about my family and the love that I knew growing up, I had to get honest about who I was and how I'd survived and how hard my survival techniques had been on me.”  – Krista Tippett Krista’s Links: Website Twitter Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeWalter Brueggeman - Author, Speaker & Professor The Prophetic Imagination - On Being with Walter Bruggeman  Thích Nhât Hanh - Vietnamese Buddhist & Activist  Desmond Tutu - Bishop & Theologian  Mary Oliver - Poet  I Got Saved By the Beauty of the World - On Being with Mary Oliver  Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A dilemma that has gripped the hearts of traditional church leaders and their followers is the trend toward “non-affiliation–” those folks referred to as the “Nones” - who check “none” when asked if they affiliate with any religion or attend any church. Which begs the question–why? Why aren’t people attending church like they used to? And why are people outright leaving the church?  Are people still seeking and finding spiritual community somewhere out there?  Writer, speaker and co-founder of the Sacred Design Lab, Casper ter Kuile–a graduate of Harvard Divinity School who once identified as an atheist–has done some fascinating research on why people–millennials in particular–are leaving religious institutions in droves; what it is they are searching for, and the surpising places they are finding connection and hope. Caspar published a study titled How We Gather, which discusses this millennial exodus from the church, and how they are transitioning into a more spiritual journey instead of a religious one. For those of us who may have been embedded in traditional church culture for years and now find ourselves at a crossroads because of the politicization of religion, or perhaps because of untenable behavior that occurred behind closed doors at churches for years wondering if we can see ourselves in spiritual community ever again, This conversation with Jen and Caspar reveals the darker reasons for the detachment many have from religion and church, but also insight into a transformation on how we might practice a new “religion” that draws from the best of tradition and the new and inspiring ways people are congregating.    * * *   Thank you to our sponsors!   Rothy’s | Get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/forthelove.   KiwiCo | Get 30% off your first month plus free shipping on any crate line using code FORTHELOVE at kiwico.com   Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove. ABLE | Sign up with promo code FORTHELOVE for a special offer that includes a 4-week trial, free postage, and a digital scale at stamps.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with another installment of our Faith Shakers series–talking to people who are doing work in the name of faith in “not so typical places,” using nontraditional ways to bring life and light to people's lives. One of the not so typical places people of faith are congregating more than ever is on social media. So many of us have a love/hate relationship with the medium. Sometimes it gives us the feeling of connection and community–especially during times where connection in person isn’t possible (remember the pandemic lockdown, everyone?). Other times, it can be a source of stress, a place where we’re constantly comparing ourselves to others, an alternate reality of only our “best selves” shown to the world through carefully curated content. Religion, faith and spirituality have their place on social media, and with emerging generations–millennials, Gen X’ers–many have never known life without it. But how do we navigate that quality of instant gratification that social media so readily supplies and find true connection and community that will challenge us, instruct us, and maybe even pastor us in the digital space? This week’s guest has done a lot of work looking at and studying digital communication spaces, and she is here to pass on what she has found so that we can better know the power of digital communication and make social connections that are positive, productive and beneficial. Heather Thompson Day is the host of Viral Jesus, a podcast that discusses these very things. She’s also an associate professor of communication at Andrews University and she’s intent on serving students and women in navigating the digital space toward the best possible end–good self image, finding conviction and even handling disagreements. This isn’t your grandma’s Sunday school class y’all–Heather gives us the tools to find a whole different way of experiencing our faith through our social channels.   * * *   Thank you to our sponsors!   Chime | Sign up today at chime.com/forthelove to start your trial today.    Noom Mood | Sign up for your trial at noom.com/ftl.    Tiff’s Treats Book | Get a $25 credit for Tiff's Treats with the purchase of their new book, It's Not Just Cookies, at cookiedelivery.com/jen. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re not always comfortable with people who push us past our comfort zones, who ask hard questions, who bring us a different perspective, a different angle–but we get so much from there. As we continue our Faith Shakers series, we’re talking to people who challenge unjust systems and are doing dynamic things in faith spaces and how those things are positively impacting the world. This week’s discussion takes place at a location that many would consider to be a hotbed of divisiveness–where many believe it hard to show love; the center of our political world–Washington D.C. This particular location is important because it's representative of our public discourse, the direction of our country's legislation, policy, and rhetoric. As we explore this highly emotional and volatile topic, we have a guest who has been standing on the frontlines and helps us take it apart compassionately. Lisa Schutlz is the chief of staff for the United States Senate chaplain, Barry Black. For 15 years, she’s been directing all of Chaplain Black's programs and outreach to all senators, their families, and any Senate staff. Jen and Lisa really get into what faith looks like in Washington DC right now. There's some hope baked into this conversation, and Lisa’s very unique perspective on faith in our highly charged political world gives us insight on how we can “brave the wilderness” in this political divisiveness to build bridges that might bring us together in love.   * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   BetterHelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove.   OSEA | Head to oseamalibu.com and get 10% off your first order using promo code FORTHELOVE.   Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Head to jenhatmakerbookclub.comtoday to join our sisterhood in nerdiness. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with a fourth episode in this powerful series; For the Love of Faith Shakers. As many of us who might have come from a Western evangelical Christian community, we were presented a God that has a strong patriarchal presence. As we dig into the history of that, we learn that this image has been crafted, held together and governed by men, as those in power tend to shape the deities as they want to see them. However, history–the same written and oral history that gives us the basis for the Bible–tells us that Jesus likely wasn’t caucasian with blue eyes as we often see him depicted, but that he was Jewish, born and raised in the middle east and more than likely, was a person of color. But the image of white Jesus took root, as well as God as a white man, his father, also a man, emerging from  The clouds in a fury–ruling with an iron fist. This generally serves one group of people in one gender, but has been so painful and difficult for black and brown and female and LGBTQ+ communities to see themselves in their creator; and to feel safe with this God, to feel cherished, to feel protected, to feel included. And so to give us some insight toward moving beyond this narrow, potentially abusive and oppressive view of God, we're talking with Dr. Christena Cleveland. Dr. Cleveland is a social psychologist, an author and activist who grew up in white evangelical spaces and was a popular speaker and influencer in that world for many years. As a researcher and former professor of Divinity at Duke University, she's done some amazing study around the patriarchal forces in Christianity and other religions, which led to some dismantling of this practice of silencing the feminine side of God's intimate presence in our life. It wasn’t until she looked at her own history of being “othered” by the white leaders in her religious background that she began to understand the tension she felt about her relationship to God as a black woman. This led to a journey of figuring out who God was to her and how we all–no matter our gender or our color–can find ourselves in the Divine.  * * *   Thank you to our sponsors!   Cavatica | Head to cavatica.co and fill out the "Let's Talk" form using code FORTHELOVE to get $100 off your site   ABLE | Head to livefashionable.com and save 15% sitewide using code JEN. MeCourse | Register now at mecourse.org and use the code FORTHELOVE to save $10. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Through our entire Faith Shakers series, we’ve been finding the places where faith is vibrant and alive–both outside the church and inside it–and who has been creating safe spaces for faith to be expressed; no matter where you fall on the religious spectrum. For centuries, art has been an integral part of the religious tradition. Some of the most breathtaking art was commissioned by leaders of the church and still adorns the walls, architecture, windows and gardens in some of the most famous religious landmarks all over the world. However, over the last century, the tie to art and religion seems to be tenuous. And those creatives who seek to express their faith or their relationship to God through art don’t always have a conduit to do so in religious spaces. But, like the faith shakers they are, people who connect to God through art are still doing their thing wherever they can–and reconnecting others to God in the process. That’s the story of our guest today– an artist who is actively helping build that connective tissue between art, God and people–the spectacularly talented Morgan Harper Nichols. Morgan is a visual artist and poet who shares stories of grief, anger and solace who found her place of expression, surprisingly, on Instagram (where now nearly 2M followers are tuned in to her artistic offerings). Morgan’s experience in the Christian faith began with roots in a church that was planted by former American slaves and their descendants. It was committed to community and ensuring all voices were heard and was a guide for how she began sharing her work with the world. Morgan recognizes that the word “God” alone has so much baggage for a lot of people because it's been weaponized against them, and she wants to show those traumatized souls that you can actually feel eternal love and the presence of God, and it doesn’t have to be in a church, and it can look warm and welcoming and different than how it may have been presented in the past.  * * *   Thank you to our sponsors!   Rothy’s | Get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/forthelove.    KiwiCo. | Get 30% off your first month plus free shipping on any crate line at kiwico.com using promo code FORTHELOVE.  Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For February 2022, Jen and the club read Brit Bennett’s The Vanishing Half. Brit is a novelist and essayist that has been featured in The New York Times, The New Yorker, The Paris Review, and Jezebel. Her first novel, The Mothers, was a finalist for both the NBCC John Leonard First Novel Prize and the Robert W. Bingham Prize for Debut Fiction. And that brings us to this month’s book, The Vanishing Half. It was an instant New York Times bestseller and took the literary world by storm. It was named one of the top books of 2020, and no big deal, landed on the short list of Barack Obama’s favorite books. It is a story filled with self-growth, familial pain, generational divisions, and more. So join Jen this week as she chats all about The Vanishing Half and its impact with Brit Bennett. * * *   Thank you to our sponsors! ABLE | Get 15% off sitewide using code JEN at livefashionable.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with more of our Faith Shakers series–with another person of faith who’s inhabiting something different than what we normally expect or see in faith spaces. When it comes to better understanding the church and how faith exists outside its walls, we must take into consideration voices that haven’t been largely represented in many church traditions. Communities of color were often not considered in the long history of  liturgy in the church–and if you’re not familiar with what liturgy is, the technical definition is the “ritual or script for various forms of public worship in churches.” And those scripts weren’t scripts and rituals didn’t take into account the Black experience. That’s where our guest today comes in. Cole Arthur Riley is an author and the creator behind the uber popular Black Liturgies, which has blown up on Instagram over the last couple of years. Cole daily shares the poems and prayers she has created that invite Black dignity, lament, rage, justice, and rest. She and Jen talk about how hard it can be to go against the grain in spaces of faith, and the power of trading acceptance for inner stability.  As Cole says, “when you have that inner stability of heart, it gives you courage to step away and say ‘I trust that I am going to find belonging elsewhere.’” * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   Chime | Sign up today at chime.com/forthelove.    Stamps.com | Sign up with promo code FORTHELOVE today at stamps.com for a 4-week trial.    Noom Mood | Sign up for your trial at noom.com/FTL today.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Happy unscheduled podcast goodness day to you all—we’ve got an amazing bonus episode dropping in just for you! This week we are delighted to welcome author Tara Westover to the show. Her book Educated is on the tip- top of our list for “must-read” books (and was on the New York Times Bestseller list for over 135 weeks in addition to being applauded and celebrated by the New Yorker, O, The Oprah Magazine, and the Obamas. Tara paints a riveting picture of how she grew up in a strict religious survivalist family in the mountains of Idaho, where she didn’t get a birth certificate until she was nine, had no medical records, and didn’t attend school. She tells us what it was like to live in that environment and what compelled her, at 17, to seek education as a means of escape. In 10 years time, Tara earned a PhD in intellectual history and political thought from Cambridge, despite no schooling up to that point. Tara shares how she’s dealing with the aftermath of her trauma and the impact her departure had on her family. As she celebrates the release of Educated in paperback this year, Tara and Jen have a lively discussion about faith, family and therapy––and the transformative power of education.    * * *   Thank you to our sponsors!   Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join the sisterhood in nerdiness today at jenhatmakerbookclub.com!  Me Course | Register now at mecourse.org using code FORTHELOVE for $10 off. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s an origin story we’ve heard time and time again; a young person trying to figure out who they are as they grow up—in the context of their families, their religious beliefs, and their sexuality. And when all of those areas conflate, there can be fallout and damage—especially when they discover how and who they choose to love isn’t embraced by their faith or family structures. Award winning journalist and writer Jonathan Merritt navigated this particular firestorm in his own life by pursuing a Masters in Divinity and Theology and becoming a journalist who asked hard hitting questions at the intersections of faith and culture. But it would take years for him to sort out who he himself was in the midst of it. Growing up in the family of an evangelical mega-pastor, Jonathan was taught that in regards to gay people, Christians were called to “love the sinner, but hate the sin.” Jonathan didn’t see a lot of love with this practice, just a lot of hate. And it kept him from being open to who he himself might be—a gay man. It took an event that shattered his life into pieces and caused his private process to become very public; which ultimately sent him down the road to really pursue his identity and recalibrate his relationship to his family, his faith, and his purpose. For the first time, he talks about this process, and shares a moment where he and Jen’s paths crossed in a significant way that would also blow up a few sacred cows in Jen’s life and introduced her to an early version of cancel culture, circa 2016. Welcome all, to this first, powerful episode in our Faith Shakers series.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove.    Catalina Crunch | Head to catalinacrunch.com/forthelove for 15% off your first order plus free shipping.  Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join the sisterhood in nerdiness today at jenhatmakerbookclub.com! To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As we wrap up our Elephant in the Room series, there will be no awkward topics left in our wake. And this week, we’re putting the nail in that coffin (so to speak) and we’re talking about–yes, you guessed it– Death. It’s really hard to think about how to plan for your death when you’re too busy living, not to mention that we don’t even want to really contemplate our demise, but alas, none of us will escape it. And we’ve all heard the horror stories of people who leave this earth with no will or last testament, families put under duress because they don’t know how to manage it all, or the provider of the family passes suddenly, and in an instant, there is no income, no insurance and perhaps unexpected expenses for hospital stays and/or funerals. As stark as it seems, it doesn’t have to be. Planning well for the life that you’ve built so that legacy is created for those who are left behind is something we all can bravely face. And to help us through it is someone who has taken this hard topic and turned it on its face so that it’s actually approachable and less scary to contemplate–we’ve got Abby Schneiderman, the founder of Everplans–to hold our hands through the process. Abby has the answers to the questions we need to take care of In Case You Get Hit By A Bus (also the title of her book). Her company Everplans focuses on providing resources to people as they think about what needs to be done to put the right things into place once we pass on. Some of it is just practical stuff we might not be thinking about—like a list of passwords so getting into accounts doesn’t take an act of congress, developing a way to keep track of medical forms, legal files, and so much more.   * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   Thistle Farms | Head to thistlefarms.org to get 15% off using code FORTHELOVE.   BYJU | Sign up for your first class free today at byjus.com/podcast. Me Course | Register now at mecourse.org using code FORTHELOVE for $10 off. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For January 2022, Jen and the club read Christie Tate’s Group. Christie is a well-known writer and essayist that has written for amazing publications including The New York Times, The Washington Post, McSweeney’s, and more. Her first novel, Group, was published in 2020 and was named as one of Reese’s Book Club picks along with being a New York Times Bestseller. Group started many conversations about the power therapy offers and how finding your group allows healing and self-discovery. Join Jen and Christie this week as they talk about Christie’s writing process, the power of therapy, and why it’s so important to find the people that help you become whole again.  * * *   Thank you to our sponsors!   Me Course | Start learning today and get $10 off at mecourse.org using code FORTHELOVE.     JHBC | Join our reading community at jenhatmakerbookclub.com.  ABLE | Head to livefashionable.com to get 20% off using code 20JEN. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Get ready for some real and raw conversation with Jen and two of her most trusted friends about an experience they’ve all shared [which happens to be this week’s elephant in the room as well]. We’re talking about divorce. We’ve all heard the not-so-fun stat that at least half of all marriages in our country end up in divorce. No matter how it happens, who makes the choice, or however long the marriage lasted—it’s traumatizing. Like any elephant in the room, there’s a sense of failure, a sense of shame that keeps the pain and loneliness of a marriage that is on the rails shrouded in silence and solitude, and when the marriage finally crumbles––we’re not only grieving over own dreams and expectations dashed, but wondering how we’ll manage all our people’s disappointment and confusion over it all–including our children’s. And moving forward as a single person after being married has its own challenges as well. How do you tell people in the office your plus one has vacated the position? Who’s your emergency contact now? Do I keep the same last name? How do we even process it all–what we were taught about marriage to begin with, why we stayed when our boundaries were pushed to their limits, and who we can trust as we put our lives back together again? Jen shares more than she ever has before about her own divorce with her good friends Kristen Howerton and Jamie Wright who walked with her through every step of the process. They discuss the trajectory of their marriages, how they each grappled with choosing divorce, and what they are learning in “real time” in the aftermath. And here’s the good news–they all agree that as devastating as it can be, our friends can help us remember who we are in all of it; new dreams can be made, old dreams can change and hope and healing is possible.      * * *   Thank you to our sponsors!   Rothy’s | New customers get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/forthelove.   Kiwi Co | Get 50% off your first month plus free shipping at kiwico.com using promo code FORTHELOVE. Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the tail-end of this series, we really acknowledge some of the bigger elephants in the room we all face each and every day. And this week’s elephant is a big one that likely we’ve all experienced first hand or with those we love. Mental health disorders have been around for as long as we’ve been walking the planet, but bringing them out of the dark has been a fairly recent phenomenon. Even as recently as 3 or 4 decades ago, depression and anxiety were rarely diagnosed as clinical disorders, and in previous generations, people with more profound issues that are now treatable were hidden away from society by their families or locked up in institutions. And while there have been huge strides made in the past or so regarding treatment of now commonly diagnosed mental health issues such as anxiety and depression, there is still reticence to recognize its impact and shame taken on by those who deal with it. The time has come to bring these issues out of the dark as we see the growing impact of unchecked mental illness and where it leads for those who don’t know where or how to get help. One of the people that’s leading the charge toward legitimizing mental health conditions in a bigger way is the founder of To Write Love On Her Arms, Jamie Tworkowski. Jamie founded TWLOHA after guiding a friend through her struggles with depression and suicidal thoughts. He saw the need for guidance in this space and created a world-renowned organization that offers resources and help to those who need it most. Jen and Jamie talk about the painful process of loving our people when they are hurting, how to give our own selves grace when we struggle, and why mental health needs to be treated as seriously as physical health.  Content Warning: This episode addresses hard topics including anxiety, depression and suicidal ideation, so it may not be suitable for young listeners or individuals on the path to healing.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors!    Chime | Get started today at chime.com/forthelove.   ThirdLove | Get 20% off your first order at thirdlove.com/forthelove. Stamps.com | Use code FORTHELOVE to start your 4 week trial today at stamps.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Have you ever heard anyone say they are looking forward to menopause? A rare occurrence, to be sure, as our culture seems obsessed with keeping women “young” on all levels. 50 is the new 30, right? And while women inevitably age, the maturation of women has not classically been held in high esteem in our culture. So no wonder we view the onset of menopause with fear and trepidation; a stark reminder that we’re not what we once were. And as most elephants in the room, this natural transition into what should be a wise, peaceful and well-earned season of our lives is met with disdain; something to be hidden and ignored, or “fixed” with surgery, hormones, and a host of anti-aging products. For those of us who haven’t gotten there yet, we’re treated to the negative aspects played up historically by a patriarchal perspective giving us dread of hot flashes, mood swings, body changes, gray hair and overall loss of youth and vitality. Though this transition is unavoidable for all women, we’re here to look at what it all really means–to those who are currently going through it and to those who inevitably will. We hope you’ll be encouraged to find that there is much to lean into that gives us hope for a productive and meaningful second half of life. We’ve got a wonderfully educated and compassionate leader in this space–she’s not only been through it, but her work focuses on de-stigmatizing the whole topic for women and taking to task the historical negativity around a woman’s aging process. Cheryl Bridges Johns is an author, she's an academic lecturer, she's a leader. She advocates for women's full empowerment, care for all God's creation, and the renewal of the church to boot. She’s written a compelling book about navigating the second half of life as a woman–it’s called Seven Transforming Gifts of Menopause, which gets to the heart of this change by helping women find their voice and speak openly about their journey. Cheryl wants women to see their menopausal journey as a time in which we can become more and more of ourselves. She believes if society can embrace this natural occurrence, women can flourish in the second half of their lives, which can only lead to the flourishing of society as a whole.  * * *  Thank you to our sponsors!   Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove.   MeCourse | Register now at mecourse.org and use the code FORTHELOVE to save $10. Keto Crunch | Head to catalinacrunch.com/forthelove to get 15% off your first order plus free shipping. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Elephants in the room are historically hard to acknowledge and easy to ignore. And though it seems like the conversation about racial divides in our country is getting more attention than it ever has, there are still some of us that are unable to see that there’s a problem in their own ranks. Sometimes, it’s not even that we don’t recognize it looking from the outside in–but a lack of being involved toward change or acknowledging the concept that the white community has historically had a giant leg up on thriving in our country today contributes to the acceptance of the status quo and to the systemic issues that still persist in our country today. White privilege is simply this: because of the color of your skin, there’s an added disadvantage or advantage as to how easy it will be to navigate our world today. Not whether you worked hard or went to college or did everything else right. Our intention for this episode (as with all our elephants in the room) is not to point fingers or cause shame. It’s simply to shine a light on a tough topic and ask ourselves the question as it applies to those of us who are white: where is it that we have privilege and can we have the humility to examine that deeply? We have some thoughtful leaders to guide us through this conversation–Reggie Dabbs and John Driver. These lifelong friends are the authors of the book, Not So Black and White, which details race in America from a Christian perspective. Reggie is one of the most sought-after public school speakers in the US and has been for more than 20 years, while John is a writer, minister, and former history teacher. Their book came out of a vulnerable conversation years into their friendship about what it is like for Reggie to live as a black man in America. Jen, Reggie and John get into why many of us, as part of faith communities, didn’t think racial divides were ours to contend with. We’ll talk about the unique things that black parents have to teach their kids that white parents don’t, and we’ll look at culturally wise responses to the challenges of racism in hopes that we can all make a difference in this fight for equality.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BYJU | Get your first class free at byjus.com/forthelove.   Me Course | Let’s learn together. Register at mecourse.org and use the code FORTHELOVE for $10 off.  ABLE | Get 20% off sitewide with code 20JEN at livefashionable.com. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For December 2021, Jen and the club read Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie’s “Americanah.” Chimamanda is an acclaimed Nigerian writer that takes the experiences she has lived through and seen occur to guide her writing and share new thoughts and ideas with her readers. She published Americanah in 2013 and the novel became an immediate bestseller. It won the U.S. National Book Critics Circle Award and started conversations on race, microaggressions, immigration, and more. Join Jen and Chimamanda this week as they talk through Chimamanda’s writing process, the way race played a role in the creation of this book, and her hopes for all of her readers.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   Me Course | Let’s start learning together. Register now at mecourse.org using code FORTHELOVE to save $10.    Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join the sisterhood in nerdiness. Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com today.  ABLE | Get 20% off your order using code 20JEN at livefashionable.com. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with another elephant in the room–one that likely has affected us all at one time or another either personally or within our circle of friends, family, associates. Society’s struggle with sexual brokenness–whether that’s pornagraphy use, paying for sex, or engaging in infidelity–is a real issue, and it impacts us in many ways, sometimes to the point of being devastating. But it’s time to bring this problem out of the dark and begin to look at the roots of where sexual brokenness begins. Our guest this week has made finding a way to wholeness in the aftermath of sexual brokenness his life’s work. Jay Stringer is a therapist, author and speaker who has done countless hours of research with over 3800 people to offer practical guidance rooted in clicnal evidence that is helping people discover their way to sexual wholeness. If you grew up in a conservative environment, you might remember being a part of the purity culture movement—a set of beliefs that Jay believes instills an unhealthy fear of sexuality among its followers. Jay and Jen discuss the harms there, and how this movement is still negatively impacting the sexual lives of the adults who were taught this set of beliefs in their teenage years. They also discuss a way forward from the tangle of shame sexual brokenness leaves in its wake and how there can be forgiveness and understanding for those who have engaged in it or have been hurt deeply by it. Jay believes that when we pay attention to our unwanted sexual desires and identify the unique reasons that drive them, the road to healing is revealed. This conversation helps us see light at the end of this brokenness, and those who are willing to unpack their stories can live a new story, one filled with hope and a future.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   Rothy’s | New customers can get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/forthelove.    KiwiCo | Get 50% off your first month using code FORTHELOVE at kiwico.com Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month by visiting betterhelp.com/forthelove. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When it comes to addressing the elephant in the room, many of us really want to shy away and say “what elephant?” and whisk whatever the pesky and uncomfortable topic is under the rug. But, in the grand scheme of this life, addressing hard topics and working through difficult conversations is so important as we try to move forward and create a brighter and more accepting world for all people. One elephant we’ve tackled many times here on For the Love (as gently as possible–no elephants are ever harmed in the making of this show) relates to shining the light on the issues and struggles our LGBTQ+ friends & loved ones have faced. And while it is 2022, it remains unbelievable to us that we are still fighting for equality for our LBGTQ+ peers. Yet, in our culture, in our churches, that struggle is real. And what, as sensible, compassionate people and perhaps even as Christians, should our response to our LGBTQ+ counterparts be? Celeste Lecesne, one of the founders of The Trevor Project, is our thoughtful guide in this episode where we talk about that very thing. The Trevor Project started as a crisis hotline specifically for the queer community, offering them comfort and solace when they had nowhere else to turn. Celeste has fought for years to create a brighter tomorrow for LGBTQ+ youth, and we’re pleased to share this conversation with Jen to tell the story and shed some light on how we can all respond and understand the individual journeys of people in this community. Celeste uncovers some hidden parts of the LGBTQ+ history, tells us how young queer kids are coping today, and why acceptance and love can be a path forward for us all.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   Chime | Get started today at chime.com/forthelove.   Third Love | Get 20% off your first order at thirdlove.com/forthelove.   Stamps.com | Sign up today using promo code FORTHELOVE at stamps.com. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey community, it’s a new year and it’s time to get uncomfortable. We have all spent the last few weeks relaxing and indulging and prepping for what we hope is a good year. If your families or friend groups are anything like ours, maybe some hard topics popped up over the holidays. That aunt that can’t help talking about politics, or maybe passively aggressive grandmother’s racist comments caused a stir. Well instead of stuffing our faces full of another dinner roll and changing the topic, we’ve decided to embrace these topics head on—yes, we’re tackling those Elephants in the Room for a whole series. And for our first topic in the series we’re dealing with something that’s difficult when it’s happening and sometimes awkward for those around it–plus it affects every single one of us who has been on the planet for any significant amount of time. It’s grief. And you may say, “well grief is not something we should shy away from,” yet many of us do–or we don’t recognize that we are grieving, or we don’t know how to walk with or give space to someone who is grieving (or even carve out that care and space for ourselves). We have some good guides in this conversation; Sal and Im are the delightful hosts of The Good Mourning podcast, a show that talks about ways to work through grief and accept the changes grief brings into someone's life. Brought together by the early deaths of their mothers in close proximity, Sal and Im began to examine how they both looked at grief and came away with all kinds of real life examples of how we tend to defer grief and push it down, how we shame ourselves for grieving too much or too long, and how we try to structure our grief to play out in a linear way (when grief is just gonna do what it’s gonna do). They encourage us that it is possible to live fully while grieving, giving ourselves space and grace as individuals to let it run its needed course in our very own timing.    Series Description  Here at For the Love, we’re not afraid to take on topics that we might not all agree on. In that, we like to open our show for dialogue from experts in all fields, whether the subject matter is entertaining, educational or uncomfortable. Because we still live in a culture that pushes and hides some emotionally charged ideas and discussions for the sake of keeping people comfortable, we’re blowing that all up and forging ahead with the For the Love of the Elephant in the Room series. Topics ranging from death, menopause, racism, and sexual brokenness will be at the forefront along with expert guests/real life people who compassionately, thoughtfully and wisely guide us through every stigmatized piece of these situations. So, leave your ear plugs at home, and get ready to address the elephants in the room.  * * *   Thank you to our sponsors!   Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove.    E-Course | Let’s start learning together. Register now at mecourse.org using code FORTHELOVE to save $10.    To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Well, community, 2021 is about to close the curtain. So many of us had the highest of hopes after 2020. And for some, this year gave them exactly what they needed. For others, it was a year of sorrow and grief and hard days. But, here’s the thing, we all made it. We made it through the hard days and the tears and ups and downs. We lived. We learned. We grew closer to who we are meant to be in this life. And isn’t that something to celebrate? Join us this week as Jen divulges all that 2021 had in store for her. From guiding her kids through life after divorce, to rediscovering who she is and what dreams she has for herself. And here’s the thing. It wasn’t perfect, no year ever is. But, it allowed Jen and the rest of this community to find life. To find the knowledge that we deserve love and happiness and unrelenting joy. And after all of that, we have one wish for you going into 2022. We wish you happiness. Happiness that shines bright each day, and brighter when you find yourself at the bottom of the rope. So, as we say goodbye to this year, we wish you the happiest of New Years and cannot wait to serve you in 2022.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   BYJU | Visit byjus.com/us to enroll in your first 4 classes for $9.99.    E-Course | Get $10 off when you register at mecourse.org using code FORTHELOVE.  ABLE | Get 20% off sitewide using code 20JEN at livefashionable.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

2021 is winding down. For some of us it flew by, for others it was the longest year of our lives. We might have experienced pure love, we might have learned new things and explored new places, and perhaps we grew closer to becoming the people we are meant to be. But some of us grieved. We lost loved ones, and dreams we once had. We dealt with suffering and sadness. But you know what we all did together? We made it. We lived. We found life and joy and hope and sadness and love. And in that, we have the power to spread that hope of “making it” to others who are walking alongside us in similarly complex journeys. As we link hands to face another year, we asked a close friend of the show and one of our most cherished leaders to bless us with a year-end benediction; Bishop Michael Curry. Bishop Curry beautifully wraps up the spirit of this tumultuous year and gives us something to hope for in the coming new year, while speaking a blessing of light and life over us all.    * * *   Thank you to our sponsors!   Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove.   Express VPN | Go to expressvpn.com/forthelove to get 3 months free on a one-year package.   Chime | Get started today at chime.com/forthelove.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

During the busyness of the holiday season, when does one find time for comfort and joy? Between planning all the parties, baking all the cookies, and wrapping all the gifts, has it been a minute since you’ve been able to enjoy the festivity of the season? Well, if you’re like us over here at For the Love, you might have to find the time to squeeze in a quick injection of the holiday spirit by sitting down for a Hallmark Holiday movie! In 90 tight minutes, you can cry over the heartwarming story of a firefighter and a vet who find nine kittens and try to find them homes for Christmas (and also find love in the process). Or maybe you need something a little more kooky like two wacky sisters who switch lives during Christmas only to find that maybe their lives aren’t so bad after all (yes, both real Hallmark Christmas movie plots!). Hallmark movies are a guilty pleasure for some, and a downright obsession for others (and if you can’t stand them, there’s something here for you too). Whatever category you’re in, you’ll love the return of our guests Bran, Dan & Panda from Deck the Hallmark! The boys are back and filled with important holiday advice like how to host the perfect holiday gathering for a Hallmark movie marathon and their recommended song list to make that gathering 5 star quality! Additionally, the trio and Jen storyboard the plot for a Hallmark Christmas movie loosely based on Jen’s summer trip to Maine, except set during Christmas with Candace Cameron Bure playing Jen and a lot of wild story embellishments involving lobsters and crusty sailors (we’re really hoping the Hallmark people are listening so we can get this one made).    * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   Third Love | Get 20% off your first order at thirdlove.com/forthelove.    Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove.  Rothy’s | Get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/forthelove. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It is the season of giving, friends, and what better gift could you get from us than a super special bonus episode of your favorite show? This cozy holiday bonus episode features TV host, model and actress, Vanessa Lachey! Vanessa just brought her first book to the world; Life From Scratch: Family Traditions That Start With You, and it’s chock full of fun and practical tips that we’re talking about on the show to make each season and the moments in them special and memorable. Jen and Vanessa discuss why it’s important (and fun!) to create and carry on traditions each year, why those traditions help strengthen our connections to the people we love, and how to give your girlfriends gifts they actually want.    * * *   Thank you to our sponsors!   Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove.    Chime | Get started today at chime.com/forthelove.  Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join the sisterhood in nerdiness today at jenhatmakerbookclub.com.   Purchase a copy of Vanessa’s book ‘Life From Scratch’ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jingle those sleigh bells and break out the eggnog--Trisha Yearwood has arrived at the For the Love Podcast for our Comfort and Joy series!! If you’ve been here for any amount of time, you know that Jen Hatmaker is Trisha’s #1 fan. Women ruled the day for country music in the 90’s, and Trisha was among the queens. If you were coming of age in that era like Jen did (and even if you didn’t) it was hard to miss the great ladies of 90’s country (Shania, Martina, Wynonna, and more.) who exemplified the important seasons of our lives (falling in love, raising kids, finding our voices) and sang songs that were anthems of that decade. Trisha’s music lives on, and she has been bringing another facet of herself to the world via The Food Network with her own show about southern cooking. And what brings more comfort and joy than music and food? Not much! Trisha and Jen are talking about it all today: Trisha’s journey to country music fame, cooking and hosting on The Food Network (and a peek at her new cookbook!), and singing Christmas songs with her favorite people (including her hubby Garth Brooks).    * * *   Thank you to our sponsors!   Best Fiends | Download for free today on Google Play or in the App Store.    Stamps.com | Never go to the post office again. Head to stamps.com with code FORTHELOVE to start your trial today.  Dream Powder | Get 40% off your first 3 months or 20% off a one-time purchase at beamorganics.com/forthelove. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For November 2021, Jen and the club read David Sedaris’s “The Best of Me.” When it comes to satire and witty personal narratives, no one does it better than David, so expect this discussion to be full of the same as well. His book, “The Best of Me” is a collection of essays detailing his life through adolescence and adulthood. Not only is it riddled with ridiculous anecdotes and hilarious stories, it also gives us a tender look at some of the harder parts of life many of us deal with. Jen and David discuss how it can be so life-giving to share our journeys (no matter how outrageous) with candor and authenticity--and if we can laugh at ourselves along the way, then all the better.  * * *   Thank you to our sponsors! Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Head to jenhatmakerbookclub.com to join the sisterhood in nerdiness today! To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Happy Holidays, friends! Welcome to the most magical time of year. It’s filled with fairy lights and Christmas cookies and good food and friends. It’s the epitome of comfort and joy—and that’s why we are thrilled to be kicking off our 2021 holiday series, For the Love of Comfort & Joy with you today. We have it all in this series, from cookbooks to Hallmark movies. We’re kicking it all off this week with conversation with a self taught expert in hosting and learning how to serve others well with Abby Turner. Abby wrote The Living Table where she offers readers and home cooks simple recipes that allow for more time spent with their people. And isn’t that what we are all looking for during the busy holiday season? Jen and Abby rediscover what the table actually means to a family, how to find God wherever you are this season, and why it’s so important to find time to love our people well.  SERIES Description Welcome to the 2021 holiday season! As we come to the end of the year, we wanted to offer you two things that are vital to our peace this season: comfort and joy. That’s why we are thrilled to bring you For the Love of Comfort and Joy. This series has it all. From learning how to serve and host others so they feel loved, to finding the hilarity in the Hallmark moments of life, we want to give you something to hold onto during the chaotic season of holiday parties, family arguments about politics and last minute shopping.. Some guests will make you laugh until you cry, while others will just make you cry. It’s a mixed bag of goodies, just like the presents under the tree—and we can’t imagine a better way to close out the year. So grab your peppermint mocha and pop on your Santa hat as we enter into the most wonderful time of year!  * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   Best Fiends | Download Best Fiends for free today in the App Store or on Google Play.    KiwiCo | Get 50% off your first month plus free shipping with the code FORTHELOVE at kiwico.com.    Express VPN | Go to expressvpn.com/forthelove for 3 months free on a 1-year package.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices