Here’s a little bonus for all our listeners this week–a preview from one of our fellow Audcacy Network podcasts, We Can Do Hard Things! Life is freaking hard. We are all doing hard things every single day – things like loving and losing; caring for children and parents; forging and ending friendships; battling addiction, illness, and loneliness; struggling in our jobs, our marriages, and our divorces; setting boundaries; and fighting for equality, purpose, freedom, joy, and peace. On We Can Do Hard Things, Glennon Doyle, author of UNTAMED; her wife Abby Wambach; and her sister Amanda Doyle do the only thing they’ve found that has ever made life easier: Drop the fake and talk honestly about the hard things including sex, gender, parenting, blended families, bodies, anxiety, addiction, justice, boundaries, fun, quitting, overwhelm . . . all of it. We laugh and cry and help each other carry the hard so we can all live a little bit lighter and braver, free-er, less alone.  Enjoy this special excerpt from We Can Do Hard Things! * * * Connect with Our Friends! We Can Do Hard Things Podcast Nadia Bolz-Weber Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s the start of a new series, For The Love of Wonderful You! Spring is arriving and as the winter slumber fades away, many of us are likely plunging into a frantic pace of commitments and To Do lists. But we want to take a minute (or approximately 45-mins to an hour) to create a moment where we can punch the brakes a little. Let’s tell that inner taskmaster to relax; and instead, reflect on finding value in who we are in this moment, and how worthy we are just as we are.  Jen’s amazing conversation partner today is Amanda Doyle. Amanda is many amazing things but you may know her first and foremost as “Sister” on the We Can Do Hard Things Podcast with Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach. She’s also part of the leadership team at Together Rising, the amazing non-profit that has raised over $50 million dollars and given it away to people all over the world who need it most. Amanda has been a longtime social justice advocate and she uses that knowledge to break down deep truths and complex social issues in all her conversations. Today, she reminds us that spending the energy to stay vulnerable in our relationships will always pay out. In this episode Jen and Amanda talk about: The struggle to be vulnerable and truly open up versus managing perceptions and staying in control in relationships How Amanda chose sobriety and the surprising clarity that emerged in her marriage, especially during the pandemic Jen’s journey to understanding herself and her avoidant tendencies in the aftermath of her divorce The profound impact of the "love letter" exercise guided by Liz Gilbert, where “Love's voice” urged Amanda to stop keeping score in life * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “A relationship has to have some equilibrium. The farther you go this way, the more the other person has to go the other way. What I have learned is that no one wants to be in those places.” - Amanda Doyle "What I have recently realized is that many people who either view themselves or are viewed in their relationships as control freaks; actually what they want the most is to not be in control of everything. They feel like they have to be in control of everything, because that is the way that they show their love is by taking care of things. But what they want more than anything else is for someone to step up and be like, 'I got this, I got you. You don't have to be in control of this.'" - Amanda Doyle “You are so fixated on the score of this life, but there is no score except the one in your head. You are exhausting yourself to death, trying to keep a score and figure out where you've won, and figure out where other people have disappointed you and slighted you and not met your expectations. But the score is fiction. We're not being scored." - Amanda Doyle “We think when we're giving up alcohol, we're giving up fun. And that's with good reason. It's like fully marketed--growing up, it's part of the narrative; anything that is fun also includes alcohol. But then I had the enormous blessing of being so close to Abby and Glennon's life and seeing that they were the most fun people with the most delightful, satisfying lives of anyone else I know. And none of that included alcohol." - Amanda Doyle Resources Mentioned in This Episode: We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle For the Love Podcast Episode ft. Glennon Doyle For the Love Podcast Episode ft. Abby Wambach For the Love Podcast Enneagram Threes Episode ft. Lisa Whelchel Untamed by Glennon Doyle We Can Do Hard Thing Episode ft. Liz Gilbert Letters From Love with Liz Gilbert (Substack) For the Love Podcast Episode ft. Sarah Bessey Guest’s Links: Together Rising Website Amanda’s Twitter Together Rising Facebook Together Rising Instagram Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube  The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For this month’s book club pick, we are headed into 1970’s Montgomery, Alabama. Based on a true story, Take My Hand by Dolen Perkins-Valdez is an unflinching exploration of accountability and redemption through an era that was plagued with bias and coercion. The central character, Civil Townsend, is a complicated heroine fresh out of nursing school with a deep desire to make a difference in her Black community at the Montgomery Family Planning Clinic. During her first week on the job, Civil encounters two young girls who have their agency usurped by the current government authority which mandates that because they Black, poor, and disabled, the girls’ ability to have children should be curbed. Years later, Civil Townsend must reconcile her role and complicity in a story that must not be forgotten.What unfolds is a shocking and heartbreaking expose of how girls and women have had their agency taken away in ways that echo for generations.  Inspired by true events, Dolen recounts her research process and how she wanted to write “bruised characters” that evoke outrage and empathy. Jen and Dolen dive into Dolen’s history as a writer, the context of what was happening in 1973 when the case that this story is based broke into the public sphere, and all the themes of this book that make it impossible to put down. This is a story that must not be forgotten and Dolen writes it so you won’t ever forget.    * * * Guest’s Links: Dolen’s Website Dolen’s Facebook Dolen’s Twitter Dolen’s Instagram Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Take My Hand by Dolen Perkins-Valdez Balm by Dolen Perkins-Valdez Wench by Dolen Perkins-Valdez Relp v. Weinberger Case Roe v. Wade Case Brotherless Night by V. V. Ganeshananthan Symphony of Secrets by Brendan Slocumb Happiness Falls by Angie Kim Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/  Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/  Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re wrapping up our series featuring Black Trailblazers, and we couldn’t be more thrilled to have another guest who has broken barriers and basically created their own space as part of the national conversation, becoming the first black woman to anchor a cable primetime show. You may know her from her seat as a political analyst on MSNBC, or as the host of her own show, The ReidOut. It’s the amazing Joy Reid, everyone! Joy is a Harvard grad with a degree in visual and environmental studies and a concentration in documentary film. She also worked on the Florida branch of the Obama campaign. Her political writing prowess has landed her columns and articles everywhere; The New York Times, The New Republic, The Guardian, The Daily Beast, and The New Yorker, to name a few. PLUS she has a new book coming out that she gives us a special peek into; it’s the important and moving story of slain Civil rights pioneer Medgar Evers and his wife Myrlie, also an activist. It's not every day we get to talk to someone who brings the goods about so many profound topics—civil rights, the fight for reproductive rights, immigration issues, the sacrifice for equality—and she and Jen shy away from none of them here. Joy’s passion for calling out injustice and her unwavering belief that we all hold the keys to preserving our rights and our freedoms gives us a reason to believe that we all can be trailblazers toward sparking change in our world. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I'm very conscious of the fact that I'm the person that looks like the young black girls who come up to me, and it makes me feel very proud because I can represent. You really can only be what you can see.” - Joy Reid “The goal is when you get in the door, just pop it open. Get it open and let more people in. Diversity and equity and inclusion, they’ve become bad words. But they actually just mean we’re making America more what it was meant to be.” - Joy Reid “The immigrants who people are fighting hardest against are the people who are coming from Guatemala and El Salvador. They're also coming from China and Ukraine at this point. All they want to do is work. They are probably the hardest working people in America.” - Joy Reid “We keep trying to replace cheap labor. America could change that by paying people living wages. But Americans don't want to do that. We love the cheap labor because we love the cheap chicken sandwiches.” - Joy Reid “We have to save ourselves not just by voting for president, but by choosing the Senate in a different way, by choosing a different House of Representatives, by choosing different state legislatures, different governors. You need to start choosing not based on the party you're loyal to and the jersey you put on at age 18 when you became a Republican or a Democrat. You need to choose based on who's going to let you be free.” - Joy Reid Joy’s Links: The ReidOut - Joy’s show on MSNBC Joy Reid - Instagram Joy Reid - Facebook Joy Reid - X (Twitter) Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Man Who Sold America Trump And The Unraveling of The American Story - book by Joy Reid Medgar and Myrlie: Medgar Evers and the Love Story That Wakened America - book by Joy Reid T.R.M. Howard - Black Physician Who Created a System of Affordable Health Care Legislation in Georgia Regarding a Six Week Abortion Ban Meet the Press News Show Gwen Ifill - American Journalist Medgar & Myrlie Evers - Civil Rights Pioneers Queen & Slim - Film Manning Marable - Professor African American Studies/Columbia University Emmitt Till’s Photo in Jet Magazine Sharon McMahon Instagram Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this week’s episode in our Black Trailblazer’s series, Jen may have leveraged her connections, and we couldn’t be more thrilled that she did. We’re excited to have a wonderful sit down with the amazing Jerrie Merritt (who just happens to be Jen’s boyfriend Tyler’s mother–and a Black trailblazer in every sense of the word). In addition to being Tyler’s mom, Jerrie’s currently the Senior VP of Community Development at the Bank of Nevada in Las Vegas. Her banking career spans 40 plus years, where her job now is discerning funding for community development projects in the city of Las Vegas (as she puts it; “I’m the only person at the bank who’s actually giving money away!”). She’s been the board president of the Rape Crisis Center, The Urban Financial Services Coalition, and the Chamber of Commerce in Las Vegas. She even recently got to work with the NFL when the Super Bowl took place in Las Vegas to lead the dispersion of funds they made available to 14 worthy organizations, which she chose. In 2021, Jerrie received an actual Trailblazer Award, presented by the National Coalition of 100 Black Women from the Las Vegas Chapter. Jerrie takes us back to where it all began; in a tiny town called Eutaw, Alabama, where Jerrie didn’t see much modeled to her in the way of dreaming of who she could be, but through generosity of spirit and a willingness to take a chance, she started blazing her trail. It wasn’t without its challenges, coming up during a time where women–especially black women–were often shunned in business and leadership settings. Despite this, Jerrie paved a way, and in turn is paving a way for those coming up behind her. Her infectious courage, intertwined with a humility that hits you right in the feels—will incite a fire with all of us to leave our own indelible mark on this wild, beautiful world. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Always pursue your dreams because there is nothing that you as a woman, and especially as a black woman, cannot accomplish if you work at it.” - Jerrie Merritt “I'm blessed. I can't think of one thing that I have done in my career to get me here today that I had no control over. I always worked at trying to make sure that I was giving back [to the community] and to make sure that I made a difference, no matter what it was. From being a teller to being a regional president of a bank, I always wanted to do my best.” - Jerrie Merritt “My mom was a teenager when I was born. So I was raised between my mother's mother and my father's mother. Those two women gave me a foundation that made me who I am today.” “Now that I look back, I think I was so driven. I think that I didn’t know anything better than to expect that I deserved; what I saw everyone else have. I think if I took a moment and thought about it. I probably would not be here today. I think back to my mother and my grandmothers who always talked about, 'You can do better, you can do better.' That's what I always heard so I always knew that I could do better.” - Jerrie Merritt “I went into community development from actually being a regional president. I was only [at the company] six months before I realized that this was something I enjoyed. That was because I was the only person in the bank that was giving away money.” - Jerrie Merritt “When I enjoy what I do as much as I do, and at the same time I'm giving back in areas that I probably would give back to even if I didn't get paid to do it--that's how I got here.” - Jerrie Merritt Resources Mentioned in This Episode: National Coalition of 100 Black Women, Vegas Chapter I Always Wanted to Be Somebody by Altea Gibson NFL Grant Programs Guest’s Links: Jerrie’s Website Jerrie’s Facebook Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube  The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The world is on fire, and finding unexpected pathways that make sense of the world are hard won these days. And the people we look to, whether it’s through our socials, or the books we read, or even the news shows we watch, can do a lot to help ease us into whatever new madness faces us each morning. One of the people so many of us look to each day does an amazing job of just that; bringing grace, compassion and humor to her reporting each morning as part of the ‘Today’ Show. We’ve got Savannah Guthrie on the pod in this special bonus episode! Savannah’s as good and kind in person as you would think she is when watching her on the hosting couch for ‘Today.’ She and Jen discuss the unexpected path to her career in journalism–including taking a job at a station that closed two weeks after she started and her hard turn from journalism to go into law school. As she describes it, she ultimately “broke up” with the judge she was to start a clerkship with because she just couldn’t turn away from her dream of being a television journalist. Lucky for us!   From the reporting of incredibly heartbreaking stories (she sadly reveals she’s covered 10 school shootings in just one year) to bringing in levity (roller skating with Martha Stewart, anyone?) Savannah gives us the nitty gritty, decidedly unglamourous side of being a journalist, and the joys that sneak in all along the way. The deeper story is all contained in the release of her first book, “What God Mostly Does,” where she also shares a bigger picture look at her faith and convictions, and where she sees God show up all along the way. *** Thought-Provoking Quotes: “The 'Today' Show is an incredible institution. So to be a part of it for even one moment, I think we all kind of feel like momentary caretakers. The place is bigger than any individual. It's not just the people you see on TV. It's all the people behind the scenes.” - Savannah Guthrie “It's taken a long time to be comfortable in my own skin because when you're a Washington correspondent, it's so hardcore. And then you come to the 'Today' Show and you do real news interviews; you're interviewing the President or the Secretary of State or a grieving victim. It's real news. It's hard news. But then at 8:30, you might be roller skating with Martha Stewart on an elephant, you know?" - Savannah Guthrie “I never want to have thick skin, even though it hurts to not have thick skin. I want to have humanity. I want [the news] to touch me. But I'm not going to cry and carry on on air because I don't want to be a distraction. I'm supposed to be a professional, so it's just trying to thread that needle, it's just the deep resource of faith that has saved me time and time again in my private life and my professional life.” - Savannah Guthrie “I'm not writing [my book] from some mountain top where I figured it all out. I'm writing it from the depths. I'm writing it as the person who actually needs to read this book over and over again. Every day I have to pull myself out of the doldrums and remind myself; to keep going. No one's perfect.” - Savannah Guthrie ​​"God means something to a lot of people, and that is so exciting and heartening and beautiful. I hope this may spark a deeper conversation with a friend. Because when we really bond over those things, it's so meaningful; it's like our soul is just thirsting for that friendship and love." - Savannah Guthrie Resources: Mostly What God Does book by Savannah Guthrie Savannah’s Interview with Michael Jackson’s Doctor Savannah Reporting at Robb Elementary School after the Uvalde School Shooting Savannah Reporting the Departure of ‘Today’s” Matt Lauer ‘Today’ Show segment with Martha Stewart Guest Links: Instagram  Twitter Facebook Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Women's sports are having a major moment right now, with basketball superstars like A'ja Wilson leading the charge. Considered one of the best WNBA players to ever grace the court, A'ja is using her towering influence to encourage not only young black girls, but all women who have felt the need to change who they are to fit in. A’ja fought to be herself every step of the way in her journey of becoming a G.O.A.T. in the WNBA.  In this uplifting conversation, A'ja Wilson opens up about the challenges she faced as a young black woman trying to be her authentic self. From an anecdote about confronting racism in 4th grade to the influential women who instilled self-love during her journey to the top, A'ja shares her playbook for empowerment with raw honesty. She discusses the motivation behind writing her new book "Dear Black Girls" and the importance of defining yourself instead of letting others do it for you. If you've ever felt the need to shrink yourself to fit in or been made to feel "other," A'ja's wisdom will inspire you to embrace all that makes you beautifully unique. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I think the biggest thing that is surprising to me is really how much work we put in. Other people see the end results as basic glory. They see that and they're like, 'Oh my God, they make it look flawless and just easy. But the most surprising thing is how many times we cry together, how many times we pray together, how many times we just come into the gym. It's like we don't have it, but we still find a way to dig it out.” - A’ja Wilson “I think the biggest thing I always like to say is (I even had it on my shoes); if you can see her you could be her.” - A’ja Wilson “The self-accountability that [my role models] instilled in me allows me to (instill) that into someone else. I can be that leader for my teammates and hold them accountable because I want you all to do the same for me” - A’ja Wilson “Young girls all the time are like, ‘What do I need to do to do this?’ I'm like, ‘Girl, just keep doing what you're doing. That's your path. I don't want you to think your path is going to look like mine.’ I think once you get past that, that's when that self-worth comes in. That's when you're like, ‘Okay, I'm good at where I am.’” - A’ja Wilson Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Dear Black Girls: How to Be True to You Dawn Staley The Players’ Tribune Guest’s Links: A’ja’s Website A’ja’s Facebook A’ja’s Twitter A’ja’s Instagram Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube  The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As we close out our For the Love of Facing Your Fears series, we're diving headfirst into a topic that we will all face at one point in our lives (hopefully later than sooner); our very own expiration dates. It’s one of humanity’s most universal yet daunting fears, and we’ve got a compassionate and experienced guide to walk us through the kinds of things we might wonder about, and the beautiful unexpected moments that can accompany our final days. Hadley Vlahos is a hospice nurse whose life experiences and work have provided her with profound insights into the final chapter of our lives. Hadley opens up about her personal journey through struggles and grief, her entry into nursing as a calling, and her perspectives on the beauty that can be found even in our final moments. Her book, "The In-Between: Unforgettable Encounters During Life's Final Moments," encapsulates powerful stories from the bedside of the dying, some of which she shares with us, including the tranquility of the in-between and the serendipitous moments bringing peace to those passing. With over 1.4 million followers captivated by her TikTok narratives, Hadley’s perspective takes the edge off the many worries we may have about the end-of-life process. Join us for a truly poignant exchange that affirms life's beauty—and its beautiful conclusion. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Most people think [death] is very sudden. There was a recent study that over 80% of what we're shown on TV is very violent and sudden. In reality, the way I compare it is to birth; just like how our bodies know how to give birth and they know how to grow a baby, the majority of time with death, our bodies do know how to die.” - Hadley Vlahos “For someone to say, ‘You know what, I'm going to I'm going to go home and I'm going to be with my family and I would like to remain comfortable.’ I think that there's a lot of power in that, and I don't see it as giving up at all. I see it as taking your fate into your own hands.” - Hadley Vlahos “I wish more people would just talk to each other about the end. Surprisingly, even though someone's in hospice, I still see a lot of hesitancy to talk about the end. When they can do that, I find that patients feel a lot more peace around the end and what is coming.” - Hadley Vlahos “What am I doing today that I would be excited to be telling my hospice nurse about one day? And that has given me an incredible drive and passion for life that I just totally didn't expect.” - Hadley Vlahos Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The In-Between: Unforgettable encounters during life’s final moments by Hadley Vlahos Five Wishes Guest’s Links: Hadley’s Website Hadley’s Instagram Hadley’s Facebook Hadley’s Twitter Hadley’s TikTok Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Calling all book lovers, we’ve got another great entry in the Jen Hatmaker Book Club this month, and we’ve also got a good friend of Jen’s sitting in the author’s seat–none other than the amazing Kate Bowler. Kate walks us through her highly personal medical journey, as told through No Cure For Being Human and Other Truths. Kate shares the profound realization that her life depended on becoming an empowered participant in her healthcare rather than a passive recipient. As she waded through her stage 4 cancer diagnosis, the endless visits to the doctors, along with many tests and treatments, she reflected on how her willingness to be initially compliant toward the process led to a delayed choice of asserting herself toward receiving better care and choices toward her treatment. Kate and Jen also delve into the cultural fabric of American aggressive individualism, which preaches that achievements are solitary pursuits and any failure is a personal shortcoming. In a world where visible piety and the power of positive thinking are often conflated with divine approval, they dissect the harmful myths that set us up for inevitable disillusionment. With unguarded honesty, Kate sheds light on how the pressure to continuously climb the ladder of success can blind us to the presence of divine companionship in our darkest times. * * * Guest’s Links: Kate’s Website Kate’s Facebook Kate’s Twitter Kate’s Instagram Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Bonus Series: Quarantine Queens and Kings ft. Kate Bowler Everything Happens with Kate Bowler Blessed: A History of The American Prosperity Gospel by Kate Bowler No Cure for Being Human (And Other Truths I Need to Hear) Focus on the Family Jen’s Evolving Faith Sermon Run Towards the Danger by Sarah Polley Women Talking Acceptance: A Memoir by Emi Nietfeld Tell Me Everything: A Memoir by Minka Kelly Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/  Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/  Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’ve got another empowering episode in our Facing Your Fears series, and boy, do we have a fear that hits close to home for a lot of us – confronting those tough conversations we'd rather dance around than dive into. If the thought of confrontation has you squirming in your seat, you’re in good company. But what if we flipped the script and viewed these moments of truth-telling as acts of honor, steps towards healing and improvement? Jen invites the insightful Dr. Rick Hanson, celebrated psychologist, acclaimed author, and speaker extraordinaire, to dissect our dread of difficult chats. Dr. Hanson is on a mission to transform confrontation into a finely honed skill that fosters lasting well-being and better relationships. His wisdom will not only challenge your perceptions but provide you with the practical tools to embrace these crucial conversations with confidence. Don't miss out on this transformative discussion that could redefine how you approach confrontation, making your connections healthier, and you, happier. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Research shows that relationships are made from interactions. The gradual weight of interactions, for better or worse, over time shapes the relationship, and interactions are built from little turn-taking back and forth.” - Dr. Rick Hanson “It's so important, these foundations to care for yourself deep down. What are your aims in your relationships, and can you build up your sense that you deserve people to treat you well? That's good. If you have choices and they don't treat you well, it's your right to shrink the size of the relationship.” - Dr. Rick Hanson “[When communicating with difficult people] know what you want. Then, as much as you can, try to boil it down to something you can ask for that's clear and specific if that's what you really want. Then second, ask for it. Find a way to say what you want.” - Dr. Rick Hanson “If you're going to have that conflict, get prepared; talk about it with some people. Get some advice. Write out keywords or sentences or phrases or just kind of work out a rough draft to clarify things.” - Dr. Rick Hanson“We don't have total control over the love that we receive. However, we do have control over the compassion, kindness, friendliness, respect, and love that we flow outward. So getting in touch with the heart is a neurologically, and biologically grounded way to help yourself feel less scared before you go into confrontation.” - Dr. Rick Hanson “Interactions often go sideways when they speed up. Simply, notice in your mind when you start accelerating and you start talking faster. You must deliberately slow down, sit back, and exhale.” - Dr. Rick Hanson Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Mother Nurture by Dr. Rick Hanson Nonviolent Communication by Marshall B. Rosenberg PhD and Deepak Chopra Making Great Relationships by Dr. Rick Hanson Guest’s Links: Dr. Hanson’s Website Dr. Hanson’s Facebook Dr. Hanson’s Twitter Dr. Hanson’s Instagram Connect with Jen! Jen’s website  Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As we continue our series on facing our fears, we introduce a fear that many of us may not talk about comfortably, but in reality, we are all facing; the fact that we are aging. In case this is something that moves you into a state of deep denial, or perhaps you are employing a world of efforts (including for-profit products and practices) to stave off the inevitable progression, or even if you are just taking it all in stride, we all are subject to what the world at large has to say about it and—mostly–it’s not positive. A pervasive ageist attitude infiltrates the media we consume, our own friend groups, and even what we tell ourselves consciously and subconsciously about aging. We come by it naturally, though–with deeply ingrained stereotypes and discriminatory practices that extend everywhere from the workplace to the bedroom. Our guest this week shares how she went from being an apprehensive boomer to becoming a pro-aging radical as she dismantles myths and debunks the portrayal of older people as societal burdens; with years of research under her belt, she dreams of an aging-friendly world. Ashton Applewhite is the author of “This Chair Rocks–A Manifesto Against Ageism,” and she makes it her life’s work to expose ageist behavior, and educate us all as to how we can stop giving aging a bad rap. Jen and Ashton take an eye-opening look at ageism as a form of bias as unacceptable as any other, and give us actionable steps to ignite “age pride,” keeping in mind that aging is an integral part of our life journey, not a condition to be cured or concealed. If you’re fretfully staring down the next decade of life with fear and denial, consider the possibility that being stressed about aging actually can cause the very things we fear about aging. Ashton sums it up like this; “If you learn about aging, you will be less afraid. That knowledge and information is going to confer all kinds of protection about aging as well as you possibly can.” * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: "Almost everything I thought I knew about what it was going to be like to be significantly older was way off base or flat out wrong, or not nuanced enough.There are plenty of legitimate reasons to worry about the years ahead, but our fears are so much out of proportion to reality. We never hear the other side of the story. I mean, how come no one actually wants to go back to their youth?" - Ashton Applewhite “When we blame everything on age, then that in itself becomes a hugely profitable industry; all the supplements, all this anti-aging, eternal life stuff--it does not work, and it's not good for you physically or psychologically.” - Ashton Applewhite “If younger women were friends with older women, they would see how coming into our own is a source of enormous power and satisfaction. If more of us were friends with younger women, we wouldn't have this envy.” - Ashton Applewhite “All prejudice operates to pit people against each other. And if we're squabbling, we're not going to challenge these larger forces.” - Ashton Applewhite “Aging is not something sad that old people do. Aging is something we embark on the day we are born and if you get the memo, you can avoid stepping on this hamster wheel of fear and denial.” - Ashton Applewhite Resources Mentioned in This Episode: This Chair Rocks by Ashton Applewhite Let’s End Ageism - Ashton’s TED Talk Old School Anti-Ageism Clearing House Yo, Is This Ageist - Ashton’s Blog Guest’s Links: Ashton’s Website Ashton’s Facebook Ashton’s Twitter Ashton’s Instagram Ashton’s Blog Ashton’s LinkedIn Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We all have things that scare us. And it’s not because we’re doing life wrong; fear, in and of itself, is a normal emotion. So then what do we do with it? That's really what this series, For the Love of Facing Your Fears, is all about. Today’s guest will be walking us through some strategies on facing our fears in a healthy way by showing us what habits mentally strong people employ in their lives. Amy Morin is a renowned psychotherapist, a bestselling author and she's devoted her whole career to the exploration of what it means to be mentally strong. Her TEDx talk, “The Secret of Becoming Mentally Strong” has been lauded as one of the most impactful TEDx videos to date. Amy’s personal journey of loss juxtaposes with Jen’s recent experience of starting over again after 26 years of marriage–and they both discuss how fear played into their lives during these periods of grief and loss. Amy gives actionable, easy to employ behaviors that can set us on the course toward conquering our fears–no matter how debilitating.  * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “It's so easy to get caught up in that idea of ‘I don't want my life to be different because I don't want to make it any worse and if it's going to be different, it's going to be hard to adapt to.’” - Amy Morin “Our fear meters in life are often super faulty. We think if something feels scary, we shouldn't do it and then we don't. I lived a lot of my life like that. Well, that's the perfect recipe for depression, because you live a really safe life and you don't go out there and figure out how exciting things can be and how much you're capable of doing.” - Amy Morin “When our fear runs really high, our intelligence runs really low. You want to balance that and take notice of how scared you feel right now? Fear will cause you to overestimate the likelihood that everything's going to go wrong. It will cause you to underestimate your own capabilities so you’ve got to raise your logic and balance out that fear a little bit.” - Amy Morin “Taking back your power is all about just stepping back and realizing these are my choices. This is my day, my life. How do I want to spend it? Do I need to set a boundary? Do I need to at least change my language so that I'm not saying other people are forcing me to do something, as opposed to just recognizing I don't want to do this, but I'm going to do it anyway?” - Amy Morin “Mentally strong people don't feel the world owes them anything.” - Amy Morin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Secret of Becoming Mentally Strong - Amy Morin’s TEDx Talk 13 Things Mentally Strong People Don’t Do by Amy Morin (Article) 13 Things Mentally Strong People Don’t Do (Book) Guest’s Links: Amy’s Website Amy’s Facebook Amy’s Twitter Amy’s Instagram Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Isn’t it fun to be part of the in-crowd? Where you can connect with people who are of like minds and spirits, where everyone seems to be headed in the same direction? But what if you start having nagging questions as an insider that don’t seem to get resolved, and even worse, are met with disdain or fear from other members of your group? This can be a scary place for so many of us. For the purposes of our conversation today–we’re talking about when it happens in religious spaces. For years, singer/songwriter Derek Webb was very much on the “inside” of what was happening in Christendom as a top selling, award winning Christian artist, songwriter and worship leader. It took a few disruptions to his own life that sent him down the road to evaluating his faith, his beliefs and how he wanted to move forward with the new information he’d gained. Now, decidedly an “outsider” who tries to still take up space in the Christian zeitgeist to potentially model a different way of living, Derek has gone on to record solo albums and also work with artists that aren’t typical to Christian music–like drag queen Flamy Grant—with whom, incidentally, he attended the Gospel Music Dove Awards in 2023 (and who also had a number one Christian song pop up on the charts), with the intention of making people who are Christian and LGBTQ+IA feel less alone. In this episode, Jen and Derek compare their journeys as “peaceful disruptors,” what it cost them and what they gained in the process * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “So now here I am, 20 years [after going solo] and I'm spoiled into thinking that I can write songs about things no one else is writing songs about, and that's kind of my thing now.” - Derek Webb “I'd been so obsessed on thinking about, obsessed on my language about God, that I forgot to apply it to the way I behave in the world, the way I treat other people, which is ethics. And I realized, 'Oh no, how did I miss that?' As I stand before you as the ringing symbol, the clanging gong when I've got all the right words and none of the love, none of the fruit.” - Derek Webb “I had to rebuild at almost 40, I had to rebuild a whole life and reckon with the fallout, at least my part of the responsibility of some real hurt. I caused a lot of people who I love to hurt, the people I love more than anybody in the world. And it humbled me.” - Derek Webb “Flamy Grant and Semler were not the first two queer artists to have number-one albums and singles on the Christian music charts. It has happened so many times over the years, but by people who are closeted and people who live in tremendous fear in that space because they know they will be immediately rejected, excluded, marginalized, out.” - Derek Webb Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Caedmon’s Call  Aaron Tate’s Website  Second Baptist Church  She Must and Shall Go Free - Album by Derek Webb Essential Records Third Day  Jars Of Clay  Plumb  The Prayer of Jabez  Wedding Dress by Derek Webb  Grace Point Church  The Jesus Hypothesis  Boys Will Be Girls Music Video Grace Semler Baldridge Flamy Grant Instagram Drag Queen at Christian Music Awards Sparks Backlash (Newsweek Article) Guest’s Links: Derek’s Website - https://www.derekwebb.com/home Derek’s Facebook - http://facebook.com/derekwebb Derek’s Instagram - http://instagram.com/derekwebb Derek’s TikTok - http://tiktok.com/@derekwwebb Derek’s Twitter - http://twitter.com/derekwebb Derek’s YouTube - http://youtube.com/user/derekwebb Derek’s Patreon - http://patreon.com/derekwebb Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Do you ever feel like you don’t have all the answers and information you need around your very own body? Are there beliefs or “facts” you might have learned that maybe aren’t actually centered around truth or science? Perhaps you’ve entered various seasons of your life as a female (menstruation, fertility, childbirth, hormone fluctuation, perimenopause, menopause) where you’ve felt like your concerns were dismissed or you weren’t given the tools, knowledge or treatment to help you navigate these season as well as you’d like. Whether you avidly seek knowledge about your body, or you’re bumping up against walls in what has been, historically, a lopsided research culture where male health has been more highly prioritized, we’ve got a guest today who is determined to correct that inequity with scienfitic and experiential information, research and active destigmatization. Dr. Jen Gunter is an obsetritican gynecologist and a bestselling author (The Vagina Bible, The Menopause Manifesto) who has made it her goal in life to “fix the internet” regarding information about women’s bodies and correcting the misinformation that runs rampant there; long held myths that cause fear, stress and even shame around our female phsyiology. Dr. Gunter debunks common misconceptions around our periods, our hymens (fyi, it’s not a “freshness” seal), synthetic hormones, menopause symptoms and more. Bottom line: you deserve to know about your body, and this conversation opens the door to finding true and accurate information that will help dismiss the fears you may have around all the seasons of your female health experience.   * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I think the average high schooler probably graduates knowing more about frog biology than human biology. No shade to animal physiology. It's super important. However, high school should also be teaching you more practical information as well as things to advance you academically.” - Dr. Jen Gunter “People deserve to know how their body works.” - Dr. Jen Gunter “If you don't have that foundation of the menstrual cycle and you don’t know how it all works, it's harder to understand what's going on with menopause” - Dr. Jen Gunter “Basically, menopause is puberty in reverse." - Dr. Jen Gunter “If you could only do one intervention for a healthy menopause, it would not be estrogen. It would be exercise. Exercise touches every domain of every single thing that's going to be on your bothersome list. Exercise improves sleep, exercise reduces dementia. Exercise reduces heart disease. The only thing that it doesn't help is hot flashes.” - Dr. Jen Gunter “Every single hormone that you get, whether it's a pharmaceutical estrogen or it's something from a compounding pharmacy, comes from the exact same plant. It’s all from the same source.” - Dr. Jen Gunter “You're more than your menstrual cycle. You're awesome whether you have estrogen or not. It has nothing to do with your awesomeness. It really doesn't.” - Dr. Jen Gunter Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Guardian Article about Dr. Jen Gunter The Vagina Bible by Dr. Jen Gunter Menopause Manifesto by Dr. Jen Gunter Jensplaining - Dr. Jen Gunter’s Amazon Prime Series 2020 NAMS Media Award from the North American Menopause Society Recipients “Why can’t we talk about periods” - Dr. Jen Gunters 2020 Ted Talk Body Stuff with Dr. Jen Gunter Blood: The Science, Medicine, and Mythology of Menstruation by Dr. Jen Gunter The Vajenda - Dr. Jen Gunter’s Substack Newsletter  The Preemie Primer: A Complete Guide for Parents of Premature Babies--from Birth through the Toddler Years and Beyond by Dr. Jen Gunter  Ensure Meal Replacement Guest’s Links: Dr. Gunter’s Website Dr. Gunter’s Twitter Dr. Gunter’s Facebook Dr. Gunter’s Instagram Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter  Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube  The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How often do you stop and think about how well your sense of smell is working? Or how well you’re hearing? When was the last time you really thought about your vision and how it’s impacting the way you interact with the world? We’re grateful today for a friend of the show who’s returning to remind us that when we tune into our body and senses, we can start to shape our sensory world to best fit who we are. And when we are comfortable in that world, peace is more easily attained. Gretchen Rubin has been studying happiness and human nature for over a decade. Her book The Happiness Project spent more than two years on the New York Times bestseller list, and she's been featured in numerous media outlets, including The New York Times, Oprah's SuperSoul Sunday, and Good Morning America. Her latest book, Life in Five Senses, is a thought-provoking exploration of how we experience the world around us through sight, sound, smell, taste, and touch.  * * * Thank you to our Sponsors! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “There's so much power in the Five Senses, and it's everything from evoking memories to increasing your productivity to feel.” - Gretchen Rubin “We can go through our bodies to get to our minds.” - Gretchen Rubin “It's this mindfulness, this getting back into our body; we start to tune into these things and then we start to be able to shape our sensory world to suit ourselves.” - Gretchen Rubin “You can turn to your senses and find new creative ways to tap into your senses to help you draw closer to other people.” - Gretchen Rubin  Guest’s Links: Website: https://gretchenrubin.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gretchenrubin/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/GretchenRubin  Twitter: https://twitter.com/gretchenrubin  Gretchen on FTL Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/sg/podcast/small-steps-to-a-happier-life-gretchen-rubin/id1258388821?i=1000426816646 Life in Five Senses book: www.barnesandnoble.com/w/life-in-five-senses-gretchen-rubin/1142221169 Happiness Project book: https://gretchenrubin.com/books/the-happiness-project/ Better Than Before book: https://gretchenrubin.com/books/better-than-before/ Outer Order, Inner Calm book: https://gretchenrubin.com/books/outer-order-inner-calm/ The Four Tendencies book: https://gretchenrubin.com/books/the-four-tendencies/ Happier with Gretchen Rubin Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/happier-with-gretchen-rubin/id969519520 Neglected Senses quiz: https://gretchenrubin.com/quiz/the-five-senses-quiz/ Therapy dough: https://www.healthline.com/health/diy-aromatherapy-playdough-for-stress Connect with Jen! Jen’s website: http://jenhatmaker.com/  Jen’s Instagram: https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/  Jen’s Facebook: https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1  The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Wrapping up another amazing and somewhat wild year here on the For the Love Podcast. For this special episode, Jen is flying solo to share her thoughts on what 2023 meant to her, what pinnacles were met, what didn’t go so well, and the many things add to the gratefulness list. From celebrating long time friendships and new friendships, to milestones with her kids, to being in a relationship as a “girlfriend,” to going through perimenopause and becoming gluten free, Jen recounts the blessings and the challenges 2023 brought to the table. And she gives us a peek into the process of writing for her brand new book that you won’t want to miss. For those of you who are struggling to find things to be grateful about over the last year, we’re here for you too. If you’re sludging through the remainder of the year, digging out of it a spoonful of dirt at a time, we’re here to remind you to keep going. Everything you're doing, every teeny little moment holds within it grace or hope or strength or outright joy, and every single moment matters. And you, our listener, matter to us. On our gratitude lists, you are at the top–and we look forward to more good, hard, and worthwhile stories to share with you. Thank you for making this show a vibrant hub and a soft place to land for us all. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Thought-Provoking Quotes “I'm just trying to figure out what it means to do good in the world and be a good neighbor and leave something of a loving legacy.” - Jen Hatmaker “The older we get, the more I think I am realizing that our adult friendships is a love story. It is a love story as important and true and profound as any romantic story or a marriage. It's just as precious.” - Jen Hatmaker “Guys, I know this is earth shattering, this is groundbreaking information I'm about to tell you, but apparently it is good for our bodies to move in any way— exercise and strength training and core work. Apparently that's good for us. Also, it's highly linked to the reduction of perimenopausal symptoms.” - Jen Hatmaker "I just feel proud that my life crumbled to such shreds, but it didn't break me. I still was smart and I was still here, I was still alive and I still had goodness. And the fact that I could travel alone and enjoy my own company and not be self-conscious just felt like a stake in the ground, like, 'okay, all right, I'm doing okay!' And I had it in me to survive this and to even recover." - Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode Sarah Bessey’s Instagram Kristen Howerton’s Instagram Sarah Goodfellow’s Instagram Jamie Wright’s Instagram Tara Livesay’s Instagram For the Love Podcast: Season 44: Letters from MeCamp 2022 Jen Hatmaker Cruise Ruth Bader Ginsburg: In Her Own Words Come As You Are: Revised and Updated: The Surprising New Science That Will Transform Your Sex Life by Emily Nagoski The Jen Hatmaker Book Club For the Love Podcast Season 40: ELEPHANTS IN THE ROOM PART 5: UNDOING THE STIGMA OF MENOPAUSE WITH CHERYL BRIDGES JOHNS Tyler Merritt’s Instagram Dream Again Tour MeCourse Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Focusing on all things related to peace this holiday season, we’re pleased to present a special bonus episode from The Meditative Story Podcast, featuring our very own Jen Hatmaker. In this episode, Ryan, host of the Meditative Story Podcast, guides the listener with meditative prompts and music while Jen tells a story from her days growing up in church where she witnessed concrete power dynamics play out between men, women, husbands and wives. Jen speaks to how doubtful she is that she’ll ever be allowed to have a true voice in the community she loves so much. As we follow her years-long journey into leadership, she shares the realization she finally came to; we can all be powerful in many ways, and not just in the ways we've been taught. Grab a little zen and reflection during these busy days—with Jen and this special episode from our friends at the Meditative Story Podcast.  Thank you to our sponsors! Storyworth | Save $10 on your first purchase. Visit Storyworth.com/forthelove BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “There may be someone in your life who expresses themselves in ways that you feel you never could. Through clothes. Their vibe. What was it about them that excited you? What would it be to allow yourself a bit of their energy?” - Ryan from the Meditative Story Podcast “We all grow up with certain templates. Society or tradition gives us ideas about what we're capable of and how much power we are allowed to have. So we take our inner alliance and tell ourselves, well, that's just how it has to be. But when we dare to really take up space. When we learn from liberated, confident people in our lives, we find that we're capable of more than we ever knew.” - Jen Hatmaker “Esther [from the Bible] not just a heroine or a fairy tale princess in a castle. She's a real person. This stirs something inside me. Have I been seeing myself as only one dimensional? My heart is beating. There's a distant rattling in me. I feel that inner lion I've kept at bay my whole life. And I want to let that lion out. I want to lead. I want to take up space. I want to be a writer.” - Jen Hatmaker Guest’s Links: Meditative Story Podcast Website Instagram Facebook Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 For the Love is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In our ongoing pursuit of peace at the end of the year, Jen sits down with Father James Martin, one of America's most beloved spiritual leaders and a New York Times bestselling author. Known for his thought-provoking books "The Jesuit Guide to Almost Everything" and "Learning to Pray," Jen and Father Martin talk about the premises in Father Martin’s new book "Come Forth, the Promise of Jesus's Greatest Miracle," which tells the iconic story of the raising of biblical Lazarus from the dead in a way we guarantee you’ve never heard before. If you’ve been in therapy for any time at all, you might have been advised to let go of things that don’t serve you, and lo and behold, this ancient story of Jesus calling Lazarus from the tomb has wisdom and inspiration for today, and promises to leave you pondering on what you might leave behind in your own tomb for a new life. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes “That's one of the reasons I write books to just say to people; being on a path is a human thing and you can read about it if you don't want to talk about it. Other people are going through it and have been through it way before you.” - Father James Martin “The Gospels should be disorienting. God wants to shake us up a little bit. And there's a great line from the Catholic activist and writer Dorothy Day that 'God comforts the afflicted but also afflicts the comfortable,' which I love, and it should be disorienting. It should shake us up. Jesus was pretty disorienting.” - Father James Martin "If you have difficulties with one or another way of interpreting the Gospels, you have to say, look-- Jesus constantly is with the poor. It's not ambiguous. 'Blessed are the poor.' I mean, you can't get any more blunt than that, but it's hard for us because it kind of challenges our status quo." - Father James Martin “Until we can let go of things that prevent us from loving God and getting closer to God, we won't be at peace as much as we could be.” - Father James Martin Resources Mentioned in This Episode The Jesuit Guide to Almost Everything by Father James Martin Learning to Pray: A Guide for Everyone by Father James Martin Transgender People Can Be Baptized Catholic Reuters Article  Mary Karr   The Seven Storey Mountain by Thomas Merton Jesuits Six Jesuit Martyrs in El Salvador WWJD (Wiki) Augustine of Hippo Come Forth, the Promise of Jesus's Greatest Miracle by Father James Martin Guest’s Links Instagram Twitter  Facebook Connect with Jen! Jen’s website  Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter  Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In our ongoing pursuit of peace during the holidays, we’re tackling something this week that we might forget others are facing during the holidays (or perhaps we are trying to trudge through ourselves); grief. Everyone's grief journey is unique, but during a season where “joy” is being pushed 24/7, our grief can feel like it’s 10 times its normal size as we struggle to “show up” in the ways we usually do during the holidays. Our guests this week are here to remind us of several important things, including; it’s okay to grieve during the holidays, and it's perfectly okay to take it slow, to pause, to rest. There's no "right" way to grieve.  And that’s why we’re grateful to have some return visitors to the show, the hosts of the Good Mourning Podcast - Sal and Im. Sally Douglas and Imogene Carn met in 2019 after their mothers suddenly passed away just months apart. Because of their shared grief experience, they met in a grief group and decided to launch a podcast together. They know that grief is intense. It hits you physically, emotionally, spiritually. And even during the holidays, during what should be happy moments. The community they’ve created around the topic of grieving brings people together during what can be a really lonely time and reminds them, they’re not alone. There are others out there who know exactly what you're going through. And it's okay to reach out, to seek help, and to take care of your mental health. Sal and Im give us coping tools, show us how to establish boundaries when we’re grieving and also remind us; the pain does lessen over time. This is your journey, and you get to decide the pace. It's not a race. It's a process. So, take it one day at a time. You're doing just fine. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes “The festive season is a time when there can be a lot of pressure to put on a brave face and to be happy and joyful. But if you are experiencing any type of loss, it's really hard, it can be really lonely and it can really amplify the things that you are missing. It's tough. I think just give yourself that permission to feel and know that you don't have to put on a brave face all the time.” - Sally Douglas “It's really important to honor wherever you're at and try not to judge yourself. If you feel like you want to slow down or you just want to sleep for an entire day, even if it's Christmas Day, honor that and just let yourself be wherever you are in that moment without judging yourself.” - Imogen Carn “We hear a lot from grievers in our community that the second year is harder than the first year. And that can take a lot of people by surprise because we anticipate that all the firsts are going to be harder, but it takes a long time to even process such a significant loss that's happened in your life.” - Imogen Carn “It's a tough job supporting someone you love who is in deep pain and I think often we just want to fix them and we can't. We offer up all these cliches and platitudes to try and make them feel better. If there's anything that you take away from this conversation, please try to avoid saying platitudes.” - Imogen Carn “I volunteer every Christmas morning at a lunch for people who are homeless. It's giving back, but it’s also something that's outside of you and your grief and it's a way to meet people. It's a way to connect, it's a sense of purpose that can be a really good thing to do if you are struggling. Maybe it's volunteering an hour of your time and you might be surprised at how that does help.” - Sally Douglas Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the Love Episode with Sal & Im  Good Mourning by Sally Douglas and Imogen Carn The Golden Bachelor Guest’s Links: The Good Mourning Podcast Sal & Im’s Website Sal & Im’s Instagram Sal & Im’s Youtube Sal & Im’s Facebook Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Are you one of those people that says “I’ll rest when I’m dead?” We can relate. As busy people–partners, parents, career drivers, caretakers and a host of other hats we wear, rest seems like an elusive and sometimes impossible task–especially during the holidays. To kick off our new series, For the Love of Peace, we’re here to tell you–you need and deserve rest. And lest you think rest is just getting 8 hours of sleep at night (wouldn’t we all love that), it’s more. We need emotional, creative, physical and mental rest, just to name a few. The stats are real; when we don’t rest we have increased cortisol levels, which then add to inflammation, which then add to every type of metabolic disorder that’s out there–from high blood pressure to cancer, to stroke, diabetes and more. It’s obviously important to figure out how to fix this rest deficit–but how? There is already a shortage of time for our overloaded to-do lists, not to mention being there for family, friends, work and exercise (if we even have time to fit that in). Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith has spent her career as an internal medicine physician, looking at the ways different kinds of rest are the little levers we can pull that renew our bodies, brains and souls. And good news–some of them only take 5 minutes to fit into our lives. When we put these rest practices into our lives, we avoid burnout, health issues and depression. Before you get to the end of seeing your own value to take care of yourself, consider Dr. Saundra’s advice and begin to respect the place that rest has in your life. By allowing it to sustain you, you’ll experience other areas of life much more joyfully.You Deserve Time To Rest with Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith * * *  Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Visit chime.com/forthelove to learn how you can benefit from using Chime! BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Caraway | Save 10% on your next purchase on all Caraway products by visiting carawayhome.com/forthelove and use code: forthelove Thought-Provoking Quotes: “When we put all of our buckets into sleep, we're in essence canceling out all of the other things I just mentioned because you can't get creative rest with your eyes closed in the bed, and you can't get emotional rest in the bed with your eyes closed. There are certain types of rest that you cannot hope to accomplish restoring with simply sleeping.” - Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith “If you're someone who has a tendency to do excessive multitasking–you have 15 to 20 tabs open on your computer, you're jumping from one thing to the next, or you're in and out of your inbox all day long–multitasking has a tendency to train the brain not to recall things because why should it have to recall something if it can just open up another tab?” - Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith  “High levels of sensory input can lead to sensory overload syndrome. A lot of us don't recognize our body's response. It's just a natural response to sensory overload. It's no different than if you have a two-year-old and you take them to a birthday party, they're good the first hour, but then like an hour and a half later they're screaming their head off or they're banging their feet on the ground– they’re experiencing sensory overload.” - Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Restorasis - https://www.restorasis.com/ Sacred Rest; Recover Your Life, Renew Your Energy, Restore Your Sanity by Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith - https://amzn.to/46BqUU2 Rest Quiz - https://www.restquiz.com/quiz/rest-quiz-test/   Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.drdaltonsmith.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/drdaltonsmith Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/DrSaundraDaltonSmith/ Twitter - https://bit.ly/47RTySa   Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re bringing a close to our series on therapy, and we couldn’t be happier to have Kelly Corrigan with us to have a candid conversation with Jen around their thoughts on therapy, including when it first entered their awareness, and now, in a more enlightened age, how the next generation has more access to therapeutic help. Even as recently as 20-30 years ago, therapy was not talked about a lot in public. For Jen and Kelly, they didn’t see it modeled from their parents, it wasn’t mentioned in their church circles, and only earth shattering situations seemed to require it. But as they look back, they realized there were people in their lives who were likely touched by a host of mental health issues–like panic attacks, depression, anxiety–and they usually suffered in silence while others wondered why they were so “moody” or “different.” Now that therapy is enjoying its day in the zeitgeist, we can all benefit from the openness around mental health that is evolving daily. Kelly’s a dear friend of Jen’s and has been on our show numerous times–winning the coveted title of most appearances on our pod! Besides offering wonderful conversation and amazing insight here, Kelly is the host of her own podcast, Kelly Corrigan Wonders, and is the author of several amazing books including Tell Me More, Glitter and Glue, and The Middle Place. She also hosts a show called “Tell Me More” for NPR, and she and Jen discuss the value of the statement “tell me more” when relating to others about our deepest thoughts and feelings. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! ABLE | Visit https://www.ableclothing.com/ and use code JEN to save at checkout FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase!   Thought-Provoking Quotes: "In suffering there's this mistaken idea that you are lonely in your suffering--that you're alone in that people don't know. All that reassurance when we say, 'Got that, yep. I had a thing.' It makes it undeniable that no one is uniquely afflicted, and to remove that from suffering is to lighten it." - Kelly Corrigan “The fact is that I am deeply attached to my people and their happiness. It matters to me above all else, and if the only way not to feel that is to detach, then I'm not signing up. This means that when I'm feeling worried, it means I'm crazy about you.” - Kelly Corrigan  Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Tell Me More Stories About the 12 Hardest Things I’m Learning to Say by Kelly Corrigan - https://www.amazon.com/Tell-Me-More-Stories-Learning/dp/0399588396/  Glitter and Glue: A Memoir by Kelly Corrigan - https://www.amazon.com/Glitter-Glue-Memoir-Kelly-Corrigan/dp/0345532856/  The Middle Place by Kelly Corrigan - https://bit.ly/49Gsxmt  For the Love of Conversations - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-43/  Tell Me More with Kelly Corrigan - https://www.pbs.org/show/tell-me-more-kelly-corrigan/ Kelly Corrigan Wonders - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/podcast American Utopia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Utopia_(film) Guest’s Links: Kelly’s Website - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/ Kelly’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kellycorrigan/?hl=en Kelly’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/corrigankelly?lang=en Kelly’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/kellycorriganauthor/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with some more therapeutic goodness as we approach the tail end of our therapy series with another fire episode! Awareness around mental health, trauma, dysfunctional family systems and more has been coming into the national awareness on a bigger level over the last 10 years. But back in 1986, the concept of codependency was really new. And unless you were deep into studying sociology or psychology or seeing a therapist yourself back then (also something that wasn’t as widely accepted), Melody Beattie’s book, Codependent No More, gave words to the masses who never had a way to describe these types of relationships in their lives. Codependency can worm its way into our lives—the definition being; those imbalanced relationships in our lives where one person enables another person’s self-destructive behavior (like addiction, immaturity, or even irresponsibility). It’s a bit insidious for those who don’t know what it looks like, and for so many, Melody’s book was a resource to help free themselves from something they may not have even recognized in their own lives. 35 years later, it’s still shining a light on those situations. Melody comes in with a scalpel to cut away to this very precise way of behaving and relating to another that is cloaked in good intentions and self-righteousness but is actually ruining our relationships. And fun fact, we were the very first podcast Melody has ever been on! Last year, she celebrated a new edition of her book honoring 35 years of its impact. Melody and Jen walk through how to recognize what codependency is and how it might be a part of your life and your relationships—which are the first important steps toward making an enormous change for the better.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month!  FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase!   Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Until I understood my codependency, I didn't really feel like I had a life. I was just responding to others wherever I went.” - Melody Beattie “Codependency is being so obsessed with other people that that's all we can see and so out of touch with ourselves that we don't even see that anymore.” - Melody Beattie “Seeing ourselves is probably the bravest yet most painful thing we're ever asked to do in this lifetime. Seeing ourselves every day for the rest of our lives, instead of focusing on the other person and figuring out what they need to do to be better, to make them happier, to live better lives, all the things that we really should be doing for ourselves, but nobody ever ever told us.”- Melody Beattie “The key to codependency is the victim story. Somewhere underneath everything, there is a victim story and we're just simply writing the next page or the next chapter of it every time we interact with someone.” - Melody Beattie Melody’s Links: Website: https://melodybeattie.com/  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/authormelodybeattie/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/writermelodybeattie/  Twitter: https://twitter.com/melodybeattie    Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the Love episode with Dr. Brene Brown: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/getting-vulnerable-with-dr-bren%C3%A9-brown/id1258388821?i=1000391341377  Earnie Larson Books: https://www.hazelden.org/store/author/626?Earnie-Larsen  Sharon Stone’s biography: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-beauty-of-living-twice-sharon-stone/1137456964    Connect with Jen! Jen’s website: http://jenhatmaker.com/  Jen’s Instagram: https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/  Jen’s Facebook: https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1  *original episode broadcast previously on the For the Love Apple Premium Podcast Channel To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s that time of year again, and we’re back with another *fire* gift guide for all your giving needs this season. And not only are we showcasing amazing and thoughtful gift finds, every gift we feature gives back as well! This year, we’re partnering with Ten Thousand Villages to present a beautiful array of artisan products. Ten Thousand Villages is a global maker to market movement that addresses economic injustice. We love to shop with intention, and Ten Thousand Villages gives us that window into ethically-sourced, handcrafted wares so that our dollars empower makers all around the world. Join Jen and her daughter Sydney as they walk us through their hand picked favorites from Ten Thousand Villages, and also offer an exclusive discount to you–our beloved podcast audience. Happy Holidays from Team Jen! * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Ten Thousand Villages  Use this link to shop with code JENHATMAKER to save 15% throughout the whole store! - https://jenhatmaker.com/giftguide/   Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/  Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker  Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/  Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this latest installment of our For The Love of Therapy series, we delve into a timely discussion on mental wellness with a focus on genuine self-care. Our guest, Dr. Pooja Lakshmin, a renowned psychiatrist and advocate for women, offers fresh insights that urge listeners to break free from the superficial beauty and wellness industry's narrative that is steadily being pushed at us through all kinds of media, but in a dizzying fashion on social media, in particular. Steering the talk away from quick-fix solutions, Dr. Lakshmin illuminates the essence of true self-care, which, in her research, links to four major chambers rarely associated with this concept. From the importance of saying 'No' when overwhelmed, to understanding that self-care is more than just a beauty regimen, she reminds us that wellness comes from within. Dr. Lakshmin, an accomplished writer for the New York Times and founder of the Gemma community, also shares insights from her book, 'Real Self-Care: A Transformative Program for Redefining Wellness (Crystals, Cleanses, and Bubble Baths Not Included)'. Join us for this enlightening conversation and let's start redefining what wellness truly means.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Visit chime.com/forthelove to learn how you can benefit from using Chime! BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “We have to talk about the systems, the social structures that have gotten us to this place where the expectation for a woman, a mom to feel better is this very condescending, ‘well just go to a yoga class, just pour your bubble bath and a glass of wine and there… you'll feel better.’ I find that to be condescending at best, manipulative at worst.” - Dr. Pooja Lakshmin “Real self-care is an internal process. It brings you closer to yourself. It's a verb. It's not a noun.” - Dr. Pooja Lakshmin “Guilt is just there all the time when it comes to boundaries and when it comes to compassion too; how we talk to ourselves.“ - Dr. Pooja Lakshmin  “Therapy is this cozy little corner where you can be with yourself and be curious.” - Dr. Pooja Lakshmin  Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Real Self-Care: A Transformative Program for Redefining Wellness (Crystals, Cleanses, and Bubble Baths Not Included) by Dr. Pooja Lakshmin Audre Lorde Bell Hooks Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself - by Melody Beattie For the Love Podcast episode featuring Brené Brown For the Love Premium Bonus Podcast episode featuring Melodie Beatty  Gemma Guest’s Links: Dr. Pooja Lakshmin’s Website Dr. Pooja Lakshmin’s Twitter Dr. Pooja Lakshmin’s Instagram Dr. Pooja Lakshmin’s Facebook Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s time for this week’s podcast therapy session and we’ve got another great therapist in our “office” as part of our For the Love of Therapy series. Dr. Sara Kuburic is an existential psychotherapist, author and the force behind The @Millennial.Therapist account on Instagram. Dr. Kuburic believes that each of us is a free and responsible agent who determines our own development through acts of our will. Though this isn’t always a popular view to take, as we often look to outside forces to blame for our unhappiness, Dr. Kuburic wants us to understand that we have this amazing opportunity to engage in life and we can take ownership and responsibility over our choices. In that vein, she asks a very important question: how much of what we deal with in life happens to us, and how much of it did we inflict on ourselves? (that’s a fun thing to spend a few hours pondering). But as a therapist, she helps people find tools to address whatever stage of life they’re–maybe it is a bad situation and you just can’t change it–but as she likes to ask: “what can you change or how can you change your attitude so the situation is less painful for you?” In addition to thinking about our lives existentially, Jen and Dr. Kuburic also discuss the concept of self-loss and how we can deceive ourselves into thinking we’re living the life we want, when our bodies are telling us otherwise by devolving into depression, anxiety and panic.    Jen and Dr. Kuburic get honest about:  What it’s like when you love the “idea” of who you are more than who you actually are–and how to stop lying to yourself What happens when not making a change in your life actually becomes more painful than changing Realizing that our bodies do have limits–no matter how strong you think you are or how strong you’ve been—your body is sending up red flags with feelings of anxiousness, fear or panic for seemingly no reason How sometimes our dedication to make something work can be so all consuming–even if that thing isn’t the right thing for our lives and hat commitment, which is normally a good quality, can lead us to our weakest moments if we don’t face up to the truth   * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I think I got into psychology to try to understand what makes humans tick and try to understand my own human experience.” - Dr. Sara Kuburic “We get to engage in life; we can take ownership, we can take responsibility, we can make choices, and I think that that's really how I see human suffering. My question is always, ‘how much of it happened to you? How much of it did you inflict on yourself?’” - Dr. Sara Kuburic “I think if you're stagnant, that's where the loss happens. That's when we overcommit to one version of ourselves. When you’re not being stagnant, you are always being fluid–I think you’re understanding the assignment, which is constant creation and adaptation of yourself to fit your experiences, your context, and what life is asking of you in that moment.” - Dr. Sara Kuburic “Stop assuming you know someone well enough to stop paying attention.” - Dr. Sara Kuburic “I think having someone that I've known for eight years sit me down and just be like, ‘Hey, are you happy,” was the first time anyone, including myself, asked that question.” - Dr. Sara Kuburic “Someone else made the mess and now you have to clean it up when it wasn't your mess. But, the reason you're cleaning it up is because you deserve not to live in a mess, not because they deserve for you to clean it up. It's for you.” - Dr. Sara Kuburic Resources Mentioned in This Episode: It's On Me: Accept Hard Truths, Discover Yourself and Change Your Life by Dr. Sara Kuburic Dr. Sara Kuburic’s USA Today Column Guest’s Links: Dr. Sara Kuburic’s Website Dr. Sara Kuburic’s Instagram Dr. Sara Kuburic’s Facebook Dr. Sara Kuburic’s Twitter Dr. Sara Kuburic’s Pinterest  Dr. Sara Kuburic’s Substack Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re in the thick of our “For the Love of Therapy” series, and this week we’re getting a full helping of candor and insight from the multifaceted actress and author, Jada Pinkett Smith. Jada candidly reveals another side to her journey that many might not know from her highly public persona, a story where she takes charge of her narrative in the face of what people have decided for themselves who they think she is. Jada recounts the formative and often traumatic events of her past, and talks in stark terms about her present day pain points. Without sparing the hard parts, Jada leans into what it’s like for her, as it is for so many of us to be a woman today, what it’s like to reckon with our trauma, and marriage is really like behind the curtain, in hopes that what she’s learned will resonate with other women, no matter what their story is.    Jen and Jada compare notes from their own lives about: Jada’s encounters with complex trauma, PTSD, panic attacks, and suicidal ideation How mental health issues can visit anyone at any time, regardless of privilege or upbringing The slow acceptance to admitting they’ve faced trauma, thinking “others have had it worse” - and the continued work toward reckoning with that truth The reality that all of us, especially those in the public sector, will be judged by others, and a new understanding that judgment is most often about people’s own pain and how they’ve been hurt by others’ judgment, rather than it is about the person being judged Through sharing her life journey, which she covers in much greater detail in her newly released book “Worthy,” it’s Jada’s hope to encourage others navigating similar struggles towards wellness and understanding. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase!   Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I just wanted to offer other women breadcrumbs that are on this journey called life. Our journeys aren't going to look exactly the same, but there are just some universal challenges that we have just being human and specifically being women. I just wanted to go, ‘Listen, I don't care what's going on. Instagram and Facebook, life is messy. Life is difficult. It's challenging. We're all trying to figure this out, and I'm just going to show you little things along the way that I figured out.’” - Jada Pinkett Smith “When you really start to understand the human condition, and when you really start to see people's fears, you really start to see people's pain. That's why people want to strike at you. That's why people want to spew whatever they can your way because of how they've been hurt, how they've hurt themselves, how they've been hurt from others' judgment.” - Jada Pinkett Smith “I am so lucky--yes, my mother was deep in her addiction, but I'm going to tell you--she showed up [for me] at some of the most pivotal times.” - Jada Pinkett Smith “It would take me years to really detach myself from chaos because chaos became normal for me.” - Jada Pinkett Smith “It's not other people's judgment that's the problem. It's how you judge yourself. When you know who you are and you are in the process of healing your self-judgment, you realize that any judgment that anybody's got on you is really a reflection of where they are sitting within themselves.” - Jada Pinkett Smith Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Time's 100 Most Influential People in 2021. Red Table Talk Girls Hold Up This World by Jada Pinkett Smith and Donyelle Kennedy Worthy by Jada Pinkett Smith Glory A Different World Ayahuasca    Guest’s Links: Instagram Facebook Twitter   Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Have you ever been told you are “too emotional,” or if you display sadness or anger that you’re “overreacting,” or (gasp) - even “hysterical?” Women have long had their emotions weaponized against them. And as part of our For the Love of Therapy series, we have a trauma therapist and mental health expert Dr. Anita Phillips at the mic to share her thoughts and findings on why embracing our emotions can be the key to living our most powerful life. Dr. Phillips extensively explores the societal pressures that often lead women to suppress their emotions. She argues that emotions are not a sign of weakness, but a source of strength, and should be embraced rather than hidden. Women's emotions are a reflection of their experiences and individuality, and they deserve to be expressed freely and without apology. She believes that if we can shift our perspective around emotions, we can achieve a healthier mental state and improved relationships, fostering a culture that values emotional authenticity and rejects unnecessary emotional censorship.  Jen and Dr. Anita discuss: The agency we have over our emotions and we won’t flourish unless we stop and listen to what our bodies and our feelings are telling us  That our emotions are not “red flags” they are clues that guide us to the best and healthiest way forward We shouldn’t see emotions as our enemy, and that internal war over them is not our destiny–we are created to flourish Principles from Dr. Anita’s book, The Garden Within * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Trust and Will - Get 10% and Free Shipping when you visit trustandwill.com/forthelove. See how Trust and Will can benefit you! FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Not having an explanation for what's happening is its own form of trauma. The trauma overwhelms not only our body's capacity to cope with what's happening, but it breaks our frame of reference when we cannot explain this in any way. That is also traumatizing because the world becomes chronically unsafe.” - Dr. Anita Phillips “I was having these experiences with my emotions and my body that did not line up with this idea that our thoughts reigned supreme. That's one of the things that opened the door to me looking at trauma more deeply.” - Dr. Anita Phillips “My emotional pain does not squelch my spiritual power.” - Dr. Anita Phillips “We've been taught as Christians that if we believe and have faith, it's going to turn out good. Then we wouldn't be crying. We wouldn't be sad or we wouldn't be scared. That's insane because we have bodies and we're humans.” - Dr. Anita Phillips “Emotion brings flexibility to our decision-making that is important. We don't want robotic decision-makers. We want people who have heart, and who recognize humanity. Emotion has always been a part of human decision making.” - Dr. Anita Phillips “Because we have stigmatized emotions in order to not feel the painful ones, we have disconnected from our bodies. That's another problem; seeing the body as a problem as well.” - Dr. Anita Phillips “Women are taught not to trust their gut, not to trust their intuition, but we have so much power in that space.” - Dr. Anita Phillips “I'm emotional. I'm emotional all the time, and I'm so proud of that because I'm living the most powerful life I've ever lived because of that.” - Dr. Anita Phillips  Resources Mentioned in This Episode: What is the Vagus Nerve? For the Love Podcast Episode Featuring Dr. Hillary McBride Guest’s Links: Dr. Anita’s Website Dr. Anita’s Instagram Dr. Anita’s YouTube Dr. Anita's Facebook Dr. Anita’s Twitter Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s so fun when we get to have guests back on the show that we love, but it’s especially fun when we get to catch up after we haven’t talked to them for awhile! This guest joined us in the very first year of our show in the For the Love of Laughter series, and she was fire then, and she’s fire now, 5 years later. We’re talking about the amazingly talented and hilarious Anjelah Johnson-Reyes, one of our favorite comedians in the whole wide world! You know her from her awesome Nail Salon comedy sketch, which launched her career, or as her character from MadTV, Bon Qui Qui, and from her amazing comedy specials. When Anjelah was with us last time, she shared that she and her husband had chosen to pursue their careers to the fullest and had made the very personal decision to not have kids. But it’s funny what can change in five years, and Anjelah is now the proud mom of 3 month old Rosie Harlow Reyes. She shares what led to the decision to have a baby, what she’s learned in this season - which she also candidly shares on her YouTube channel via a series of videos called Postpartum Confessions. Whether she’s on stage doing comedy, acting on TV and in movies, or hosting podcasts with her husband Manny, Anjelah gives a great perspective on how life can take us where we least expect to go, and how we can laugh about it a little along the way. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Hon’s Honey | Visit honshoney.com to see how you can benefit from their fun honey-based products! ABLE | Visit https://www.ableclothing.com/ and use code JEN to save at checkout   Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Anjelah’s Comedy Specials Anjelah’s Latest Special at the Ryman in Nashville Anjelah’s Nail Salon Bit Who Do I Think I Am: Stories of Chola Wishes and Caviar Dreams by Anjelah Johnson Anjelah’s Podcasts Including Manjelah   Guest’s Links: Anjelah’s Website Anjelah’s Instagram  Anjelah’s Facebook Anjelah’s Twitter Anjelah’s YouTube Anjelah’s TikTok Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re keeping the laughs going as we continue our For the Love of Funny series–and this week we’ve got Kevin James Thornton, a comedian and entertainer, who, after spending his youth in a fundamentalist church in the 90’s, found a lot to laugh about. After moving to LA to make his way on stages at the Comedy Store and as an actor, Kevin wasn’t sure he was happy with how his life was going. After a move to Nashville and some serious contemplation about where to go next, the pandemic hit. Bored at home, Kevin discovered a little thing called TikTok and decided it might be fun to share some of the stories of what it was like to grow up gay in a fundamentalist church in the 90’s, and much to his surprise his videos were wildly successful. At 50 years old, Kevin had found his niche, and now he brings his unique brand of comedy (often sung as a story through an auto-tune device—because it was the 90’s, after all) ) with audiences across the U.S. and Europe and with over 2 million followers on social media.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Visit chime.com/forthelove to learn how you can benefit from using Chime! FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Resources Mentioned in This Episode: A Comedy Bit on Kevin’s YouTube Channel A Comedy Bit on Kevin’s YouTube Channel The Comedy Store in West Hollywood For the Love Episode with Nate Bargatze Kevin James Thornton's Upcoming Shows Guest’s Links: Kevin’s Website Kevin’s Instagram Kevin’s Twitter Kevin’s Facebook Kevin’s TikTok Kevin’s YouTube Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re knee-deep in our “For the Love of Funny” series, celebrating all things hilarious and witty. Jen’s been a long-time fan and amateur participant in the world of comedy, and our guest today explores one of her tip-top favorite genres of comedy. He's a master of observational humor, turning even the most mundane moments of life into pure comedy gold. Our guest, Tom Papa, is not just a comedian—he's a whirlwind of talent with a remarkable career spanning two decades. From his uproarious Netflix specials "What A Day" and "You're Doing Great," to his writing and stand-up projects in comedy clubs and for shows like NPR’s "Live From Here," to his acting roles, Tom has done it all. He and Jen discuss the common theme of mining gold from your family to create some of your best comedy material (but avoiding presenting that said material to them, because family can be brutal critics). They also discuss Tom’s new passion–baking, and how between writing, doing comedy and various shows, he’s in the kitchen tending to all the processes involved with producing amazing bread and other baked goods. To that end, Tom also hosts his own podcast called "Breaking Bread with Tom Papa," where he invites guests for lively discussions over meals. Like a lot of comedians, Tom is more than just funny—he's a thoughtful, insightful individual who gives you something to think about between all the laughs. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! ABLE | Visit https://www.ableclothing.com/ and use code JEN to save at checkout   BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month!   Thought-Provoking Quotes: “My uncle Tony was really funny. He would sit at the table and hold court. Then some cousins were funny, and so I definitely gravitated toward those people; that always kind of informed me. And I started doing that around my friends very, very early.” - Tom Papa “[In my comedy] I relate through family and the small stuff. It's like it is observational, but it's not. It's very personal observational, in a way." - Tom Papa "When you’re around people that are doing what you want to do, in time, you just want someone to say, 'it'll work. Just tell me. It'll work out.' It's like sometimes you go to the doctor, 'just tell me everything's all right.'" - Tom Papa “[My favorite thing] is standup, but that almost goes without saying. That's just me. So to even call that one of the things is kind of not fair. It's so good. It's so great. You get the response, you get the physical, the mental, the applause, the scariness, all of it is so raw and potent out of the other stuff that I do." - Tom Papa "One of the biggest hurdles that writers have is, is your own head saying, 'is this good enough?' And you start tearing it down and stop yourself from working with your critical mind." - Tom Papa Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Class Clown (Comedy Album by George Carlin) Let's Get Small (Comedy Album by Steve Martin) The Comedy Store Comedy Cellar Gary Gulman Ryan Hamilton Maria Bamford Colin Quinn Mateo Lane Ali Wong Live From Here A Prairie Home Companion with Garrison Keillor Come to Papa Chris Thile The Fitzgerald Theater Daily Rituals by Mason Currey Getting Baked with Tom Papa // The Best Italian Ciambella Ever! Getting Baked with Tom Papa // How To Start Baking Sourdough  Jen’s No-Cook Thai Peanut Chicken Salad Recipe Guest’s Links: Tom’s Website Tom’s Facebook Tom’s Instagram Tom’s Twitter Tom’s YouTube Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with more funny, and this week doesn’t disappoint. For those of you who grew up in the Bible Belt and maybe went to a conservative church (or even if you didn’t), perhaps you were a bit sheltered like our guests this week. Before racking up over 12 million combined followers on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook and elsewhere, and hosting the hit podcast Correct Opinions, comedian Trey Kennedy came to fame on the short-form videosharing app Vine. His hilarious and pointed videos ranged from imitating a church youth pastor who is cornily trying to be cool and up on pop culture, to an overly sunny Dad who tries to drag his teenage son out of bed to go to church. Now, Trey has teamed up with his friend Jake Triplett, who he met at a Christian camp, and the two co host the podcast, along with Trey’s wife Katie (who keeps the pair on track and from going down too many rabbit holes). In this episode, the trio and Jen share the commonalities of their Baptist church upbringings, their naivete about dating customs (hearing Jake’s assessment of what he thought french kissing was will make you howl), and how Trey’s Bible wielding grandmother had a serious talk with him about rumours of him being gay (He’s not. Not that there’s anything wrong with that). They've managed to turn being 'sheltered' into comedy gold, and they’ve been taking their brand of comedy all around the country with their recent “Grow Up” tour and their clean comedy is resonating everywhere. Their funny spin on their past doesn't just give us a good laugh; it also makes anyone who had a similar childhood feel like part of a big, quirky family. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase ABLE | Visit https://www.ableclothing.com/ and use code JEN to save at checkout   Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Vine Correct Opinions (Podcast hosted by Trey, Katie, and Jake) Trey Kennedy’s Grow Up Comedy Tour Jake Triplett’s Sheltered Kid Special Shiny Happy People Docuseries For the Love Episode ft. John Crist Make Me Care About Podcast Interview with Melinda Gates   Guest’s Links: Trey’s Website Trey’s Instagram Trey’s Facebook Trey’s Twitter Jake’s Instagram Jake’s Facebook Jake’s Twitter   Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with more of our For the Love of Funny series, and this week we’re asking the question; is it possible to find humor not only in our lighter moments, but also in our vulnerable and difficult times? Our guest this week specializes in wit through the written word–and he has found that it is possible to find joy, while being heartfelt and hilarious at the same time. We’re welcoming R. Eric Thomas, back to the show! Whether he’s writing about politics, pop culture, or celebrity craziness–Eric has a refreshing and hilarious perspective–which really helps when regular reporting on politics and news might send us spiraling into the darkness. Eric is also a television writer (Dickinson on AppleTV+, Better Things on FX), a playwright, and a bestselling author of several books, including Here For It: Or How To Save Your Soul in America and his newest work, a collection of hilarious essays called Congratulations The Best Is Over. Eric brings that laugh we need when the world seems bonkers, and helps remind us that we can find something to laugh at in almost every situation–we just have to be open to it.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Trust and Will - Get 10% and Free Shipping when Visit trustandwill.com/forthelove. See how Trust and Will can benefit you! FOCL - Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase   Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Be grateful that you got to this place because this is where you wanted to be. Don't spend so much time thinking, ‘What if it all goes away?’” - R. Eric Thomas  “I think to myself, ‘If you were better, then you'd be busier and that would make you happier.’ I don't know that busier equals happier. I don't know if that's true.” - R. Eric Thomas  “I remember the first time somebody came up to me in the street and said, ‘Hey, this is weird, but I follow your Facebook, a friend of mine told me to, and you're funny.’ And I'm like, ‘Who are you? What's happening? Where are the cameras?’” - R. Eric Thomas “I know from my own experience as a reader and as a writer, you can have a good time with something that is both funny and heartfelt.” - R. Eric Thomas “I posted an Instagram story that was essentially like, ‘I got rejected from this thing, but my Beyonce´ hat came. So there are pluses and minuses.’ People really responded. They were like, ‘Thank you for sharing not only your wins but your losses. It seems like you're always winning.’ I'm like, ‘baby, I am always losing, but I'm not going to share that.’” - R. Eric Thomas    Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the Love of Finding Truth ft. Eric Thomas Eric Reads the News  Dickinson Better Things Here for It by R. Eric Thomas Congratulations, The Best is Over by R. Eric Thomas Reclaiming Her Time: The Power of Maxine Waters by R. Eric Thomas and Helena Andrews-Dyer Kings of B’more by R. Eric Thomas Lynn Nottage’s Website The Getaway Car: A Practical Memoir About Writing and Life by Ann Patchett The Enneagram Institute  Broken (in the best possible way) by Jenny Lawson My Point…And I Do Have One by Ellen Degeneres There’s Nothing in This Book That I Meant to Say by Paula Poundstone The Moth For the Love Podcast episode with Anne Bogel Guest’s Links: R. Eric Thomas’s Website R. Eric Thomas’s Instagram R. Eric Thomas’s Twitter R. Eric Thomas’s Facebook Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re looking for laughs and we found them in all the right places, and we’re sharing the hilarity with a brand new series called For the Love Of Funny. If you’ve hung out with us for any amount of time, you know that Jen is an avid devotee of all things funny. So we’ve rounded up some of her favorite funny people to not only bring us laughs, but to unpack the art and science of making people laugh. And for our very first episode, we couldn’t be more delighted to welcome “The Tennessee Kid” himself–Nate Bargatze! Nate’s known for his down-to-earth humor and deadpan comedy delivery, his highly viewed Netflix specials, and his favored status as a frequent guest on “The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon: (10+ times!). Surprise guest interviewer Tyler Merritt joins Jen as they pull back the curtain on Nate’s comedy journey. Often referred to as the “nicest man in standup,” Nate talks about growing up in a performance forward home (his dad was a Christian magician), the origins of some of his funniest jokes (Yelled at By a Clown, anyone?) and the side of fame that isn’t so pretty–like his sister’s incredulity that anyone would want to take a selfie with him.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Visit chime.com/forthelove to learn how you can benefit from using Chime! Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase   Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the Love Episode ft. Kevin Nealon Nate Bargatze: The Tennessee Kid  Nate Bargatze: The Greatest Average American The Nateland Podcast The Be Funny Tour The Second City Comedy Club Hannibal Buress’s Website Kumail Nanjiani T.J. Miller’s Website Pete Holmes Website Amy Schumer’s Website Aziz Ansari’s Website Dusty Slay’s Website Sinbad: Afros & Bellbottoms Brian Regan’s Website Kurt Metzger’s Website Big J Oakerson’s Website Bill Burr’s Website Dave Attell’s Website Eddie Murphy: Raw Eddie Murphy: Delirious The Comic Strip Steve Martin Justin Smith’s Website Guest’s Links: Nate’s Website Nate’s Instagram Nate’s TikTok Nate’s YouTube Channel Nate’s Twitter Nate’s Facebook Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As we close in on the end of our Community and Friendships series, we’re reflecting on the great conversations we’ve had toward building relationships in our lives. And this week’s convo puts the cherry on top as we discuss our friends as “chosen family” and the shape that our friendship and communities take when we are in a place where we need extra support. Our guest this week, Emma Nadler, is a therapist, author and speaker who is doing valuable work in helping people build deeper relationships. Emma knows firsthand what it means to rely on her circle in ways she never thought she would, when her daughter was diagnosed with a DNA disorder, shifting the life she knew, and navigating the special care, multiple hospital stays, and more than full-time parenting her daughter needs. By leaning on her community and being brave enough to ask for help (when sometimes the tendency is to act like we’ve got it all under control). Emma’s goal is to show us how we can look beyond preconceived notions about what it means to be valued and to belong, and leads us toward building a world where thriving in community is possible for every single person.  Emma and Jen touch on:  What it looks like when our “family” looks different than expected in the context of friendships and our communities How to understand and learn to tolerate our emotions when it comes to interacting with friends and community and how to find meaning in everything—good and bad Practical steps on fostering really authentic connections, asking for help, and creating inclusive spaces The power of being direct when reaching out to connect with new people, or friends you’ve drifted from, to foster a deeper relationship  There’s so much value in learning how to meaningfully connect with others and create communities and friendships that celebrate our joyful times and anchor us at difficult times. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month!   Thought-Provoking Quotes: “We're born into something and we get certain things from that family; we might get a lot of things. We might get a lot of love. Some people do, some people don't get what they need. I think we can take that and build on it in the relationships that we create in our lives.” - Emma Nadler “There are 53 million caregivers in the United States right now and we can really feel alone, even though we're not. Often our work [leaves us] tucked away. We're at home. We have so much that we're grappling with that isn't seen. And so it can really feel [lonely].” - Emma Nadler “What would it be like to be open with people about what we are looking for in our relationships, what we want, and really let that in? ” - Emma Nadler “To me, in relationships, the question I'm most interested in is, do we want the same things out of this relationship?” - Emma Nadler   Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Unlikely Village of Eden by Emma NadlerFeed These People by Jen Hatmaker Dr. Robert Waldinger’s Harvard Second Generation Study   Guest’s Links: Emma’s Website Emma’s Instagram Emma’s Facebook   Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube   PLEASE NOTE: Listening to this podcast in no way creates a client/therapist relationship with Emma Nadler. This is educational in nature. No legal, counseling, or other professional services are being rendered and nothing is intended to provide such services or advice of any kind. If you are having a mental health emergency, please contact 911 or go to your nearest emergency room. You can also text or call 988 for the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline (within the United States). To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with our “For the Love of Community and Friendship Series, and this week, we delve into an area of friendship that all of us may face, but inevitably dread. It’s that moment when you know a friendship has run its course, or perhaps has become toxic, or you’ve just drifted apart–and you don’t know how to go forward. When life changes, when we change, and a friendship no longer serves us, how do we gracefully (and honestly) communicate about it? Our guest this week, who is here to walk us through this touchy topic, is writer, former standup comedian and political consultant Erin Falconer. Erin's written a book called How to Break Up With Your Friends: Finding Meaning, Connection and Boundaries in Modern Friendships. Lest you think this is just a conversation on how to wipe your friend slate clean, stick around–you’ll hear Jen and Erin talk about how to create and maintain the healthiest friendships through all the seasons of our lives in order to avoid the painful friend breakup.  They also discuss: Erin’s “Six Pillars of Friendship” that help us take stock of who is in our life and how we’re serving each other What to do when we see a friendship has run its course or needs to shift or change in some way How to keep the source of joy going in our adult friendships, and minimize the pain It’s tough to grapple with the complexities of friendship breakups, but it all starts with building healthy relationships from the start.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Trust and Will - Get 10% and Free Shipping when Visit trustandwill.com/forthelove. See how Trust and Will can benefit you! FOCL - Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “There's no collectively agreed upon language out there in the zeitgeist about how to navigate conflict in [friend] relationships. There’s no blueprint for what a good one looks like, what a bad one looks like, and how to get out of good bad ones and into good ones." - Erin Falconer “The default setting on any one relationship should be one of positivity. It's so easy to slip into negative thinking and negative conversations because they feel so good. They feel like you're seen and you're heard and done. But you have to be really careful to not lean too heavily into those things.” - Erin Falconer “Relationships take work. To show up, you need to commit to the other person and you have to find your rhythm of what that looks like. It doesn't mean you have to be getting dinner every week, but there has to be some kind of agreed-upon level of commitment in this.” - Erin Falconer “It is true that individuals themselves can be toxic people. That is such a small percentage of people. It is, in this case, the relationship that is toxic, and even if somebody else is behaving badly, you've allowed them to continue to show up in this way in your life. We teach people how to treat us and there's a certain degree of responsibility we need to own within these relationships because with responsibility comes freedom and power.” - Erin Falconer “Relationships are very much a mirror to you. The more you explore these types of relationships, the more you explore yourself. To that end, understanding who is in your world is really important to understanding who you are.” - Erin Falconer  Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the Love of Reconnecting ft. Nedra Tawwab How to Break Up with Your Friends: Finding Meaning, Connection, and Boundaries in Modern Friendships by Erin Falconer Marie Kondo Guest’s Links: Erin’s Instagram Erin’s Twitter Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When was the last time you reached out to one of your neighbors? Not just the people you feel comfortable with, but the ones who live near that you might not know beyond a “How are you?” in passing. As we continue our Community and Friendship series, we’re taking a look at why it enriches our lives (and the lives of our neighbors) to invest in the people around us. It doesn’t have to mean they all become our best friends, but a little curiosity, a little paying attention, and a little effort to listen will go a long way in developing the kinds of relationships that make life sweeter. To help guide this conversation, we’re delighted to welcome author and speaker Shannan Martin back to the show! Through her writing, Shannan has revolutionized the way we think about relationships with her refreshing perspectives. She articulates the need for genuine, deep-seated friendships that stretch beyond conventional norms. She also unravels the complexities of forging meaningful connections in our modern world, and her last book “Start with Hello” beckons us toward extending hospitality in ways that might feel awkward at first, but will net us that sense of community and belonging we all long for.  Shannan and Jen discuss:  How Shannan, a self proclaimed introvert, faced her loneliness after she and her family moved from the country to the city by getting outside her comfort zone and making herself available to meet her neighbors What it means to be deeply embedded in a neighborhood where you are both a good neighbor, and your neighbors are good neighbors to you How making new friends, no matter how big or small, always starts with a simple “hello” and the small steps towards getting to know someone by making eye contact, paying attention and helping when we can Shannan and Jen agree that when we reach out beyond our fears, beyond our comfort level, and beyond our borders with radical hospitality, good things start to happen in our neighborhoods which then trickle out to our communities and begin to affect society as a whole. And, be sure to stay with us ‘til the very end–you won’t want to miss a little bonus chat among friends about whether ice cream is healthy for you or not, and what flavors Jen and Shannan swear by. * * * Thank you to our sponsors!  BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Every relationship that we have, whether it's the smallest acquaintance or our truest loves, began with a hello.” - Shannan Martin “There's this unfair idea that if somebody is unhoused, they're gonna be inherently a danger to us and it's just simply not true.” - Shannan Martin “What if we just decided to eat together? What if we decided that nobody is exempt from being in our home? Everybody's invited. That makes life really interesting.” - Shannan Martin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the Love of Books Series The Window (a nonprofit organization out of Goshen, IN) Shannan’s Books For the Love Episode ft. Osheta Moore An article on the health benefits of Ice Cream by The Atlantic Toad the Wet Sprocket Tour Crack the Case by Dawes Guest’s Links: Shannan’s Website  Shannan’s Twitter  Shannan’s Instagram  Shannan’s Facebook Connect with Jen!: Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey friends, we are back with another episode in our For the Love of Community & Friendships, and we happen to have a true friend of the show returning to lay down some expertise about what it means to make and keep friends. We’re delighted to have Dr. Marisa Franco, (who also partnered with Jen to create a MeCourse on Friendship) who delves into the fascinating world of friendship attachment styles. Dr. Franco shares her extensive knowledge and insights on how our attachment styles, often formed during our early years, can significantly influence the type of friendships we form as adults. She discusses the three main types of attachment styles—secure, avoidant, and anxious—and explains how understanding our own style can help us navigate our friendships more effectively. Jen and Marisa touch on: How the three main types of attachment styles can change over time as we typically become more secure as we mature How, when we’re younger, we tend to have more friends (and friends who are very similar to us) as we look to expand our identity, and when we become more solid in our identity, we’re more open to be friends with people who are different from us Why friendship doesn’t just typically “happen,”--it takes effort, and some ways you can put yourself out there to make new friends, and how to do the work to keep the friends you already have How to approach conflict in friendship where we kindly share our needs with a spirit of reconciliation over an attitude of defensiveness  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Visit chime.com/forthelove to learn how you can benefit from using Chime! FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase!   Thought-Provoking Quotes: “If you don't understand your attachment style, you think that the world is just mean and cruel and people are gonna reject you or people are going to betray you. If you're more avoidant and you don't have any power, you don't have any agency because all the issues are out in the world.” - Dr. Marisa Franco “I think if we can understand our attachment styles, we have more agency, we have more control, we can shift our behaviors and we can find the relationships that we really want.” - Dr. Marisa Franco “People are a lot more likely to be friends with people that are similar to them. It's called homophily. The value of these similar relationships is they do make us feel very safe.” - Dr. Marisa Franco “We see in the research that people who see friendship as happening without effort are more likely to be lonely five years later. People that see it as requiring effort are less likely to be lonely five years later.” - Dr. Marisa Franco “What we see in the research is that when people try to reconnect with someone, that person is happier to receive that reconnection than we predict.” - Dr. Marisa Franco  “In a healthy conflict, I think of; what does this conflict look like without blame? What if I go into here not trying to blame this person, not trying to even assume that they were trying to intentionally hurt me. So then, how do I navigate it with that being what's going on in my head?” - Dr. Marisa Franco Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Platonic How The Science of Attachment Can Help You Make and Keep Friends a book by Dr. Marisa Franco Guest’s Links: Dr. Franco’s Website  Dr. Franco’s Instagram  Dr. Franco’s Facebook Dr. Franco’s Twitter Dr. Franco’s Psychology Today Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Genuine heart friendships have an incredible impact on our lives, including our health. Many recent studies tout the connection between health and the quality of your relationships, and that loneliness (not to be confused with being alone) can have a negative effect on our health–possibly even bigger than smoking or drinking or poor eating. So is it possible that our friends can actually help save us? Our guest today thinks so; writer and poet extraordinaire Maggie Smith recently went through a divorce and she credits her close knit friend group for being “her parachute” in that process (much like Jen’s friends have been for her as well).  Jen and Maggie discuss these topics around friendship:  The way friends can invest in you in a way that family isn’t able to when you’re going through disruptive life moments The friends that intuitively know what you need during a rough patch and show up proactively with solutions so you don’t feel so lost How we can nurture those “life saving” friendships by being a good friend ourselves  Thank God for the friends who remind us of who we are–of our core goodness and worth– when a disruptive time shakes up our identity. They help bring us back to ourselves.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase!  Caraway | Save 10% on your next purchase on all Caraway products by visiting carawayhome.com/forthelove and use code: forthelove BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Thought-Provoking Quotes:  “I was in a ‘not seeing the forest for the trees' mode. I was painting an inch from the canvas. I had no idea what the shape of anything was and I was just panicked and trying to spackle everything back together as quickly as I could. And so having people who could remind me of my goodness, my core worth, which I think is so easy to forget in these moments." - Maggie Smith "When friends come in, they're not necessarily invested in the relationship. They're invested in your happiness. Whatever that looks like for you, it doesn't actually impact your friend a block away. If your marriage doesn't work the same way it impacts your family, who's thinking, 'Oh, what are we gonna do for Christmas now?'" - Maggie Smith “I think there's something that we do that hurts our adult friendships in particular, which is why we prioritize them sometimes way below our romantic relationships. It happens even when we're dating. We all knew or we were the girl who was 15 and as soon as she got a boyfriend stopped hanging out with her friends on the weekends because she was like, ‘I just wanna be with my boyfriend and if he's busy then I can come hang out.’” - Maggie Smith "Maybe someone hurt you five years ago now seems pretty small and not unmanageable or unforgivable. So what would it take to just reach out, call your friends, and have them help you craft a text to someone that you haven't talked to in a while, or leave a voicemail—if you're phone brave, I am not phone brave, so I would text or probably email. If you know where they live, send a little postcard that has some little private joke or something that reminds you of them." - Maggie Smith  Resources Mentioned in This Episode: You Could Make This Place Beautiful: A Memoir by Maggie Smith   My Thoughts Have Wings by Maggie Smith (A picture book releasing in winter 2024 by Maggie Smith) Moving Forward After Pain Rips Your Script: Maggie Smith (FTL Episode featuring Maggie Smith) Guest’s Links: Maggie’s Website Maggie’s Instagram Maggie’s Twitter Maggie’s Facebook Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re in a brand new series; For the Love of Friends and Community. Friendship and community often serve as the cornerstone for many women's lives, providing a vital support system that nurtures connection, empathy, and mutual growth. In a recent survey from Psych Central, nearly half of most women report having fewer than 3 close friends, one third report having between 4-9 close friends, and 12% say they have no close friends at all. We know that friendship contributes to more satisfaction in life and is good for our overall health. So what’s the key to finding and keeping friends? How many friends do we need to get those good friend vibes? Our guest this week, author and podcaster Laura Tremaine, has written extensively about friendship, drawing from her own experiences and the experiences of other women she has talked to. Laura wants us to identify, create and nurture these deep connections that we long for. She also teaches us that friendship takes work, and vulnerably shares her friendship fails (yes, even a friendship expert has a few friend misses now and again).  Jen and Laura discuss:  The key qualities that make a friendship meaningful and enduring, and how those things are defined by what you value A rundown of the things we all may think are important about friendship and looking at the things that aren’t as important as we’ve been made to believe they are  How to navigate friendship breakups and friendships ending, allowing grief over that loss, and leaving room for that vacant “chair” to be filled by someone new Finding the “fellow obsessive” friend - the one you can geek out about with things that you both love Creating meaningful friendships is not just about having a social circle. It's about experiencing true companionship and vulnerability and support. And it's these soul connections that can bring so much joy and fulfillment to our lives.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! MeCourse: LGBTQIA+ | LGBTQIA+ Parenting e-course from Jen and special guests is available for order. Visit https://www.mecourse.org/lgbtqia-parenting for more info. FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “You can have all the data about why we connect or don't connect or how many people we can reasonably connect with. There's data and then there's actually real life.” - Laura Tremaine “It's great to have the friends who knew you when. It's also great to have friends who are like, ‘I had no idea you used to be that way and I'm glad we're meeting at this stage.’” - Laura Tremaine “My friendship with one of my best friends ended not by my choice, and it was as devastating as any romantic breakup I have ever been through.” - Laura Tremaine “Sharing your stuff, even when it's messy, brings you closer to who you are.” - Laura Tremaine “When you make a new friend and someone likes this newest version of you that you have fought so hard to be, how validating is that?” - Laura Tremaine “Friendship is a to-do and I have to put it on my to-do list like I put work tasks on my to-do list.” - Laura Tremaine Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Share Your Stuff I’ll Go First (a book by Laura Tremaine) Friends song by Michael W. Smith Brené Brown’s Websites Jamie B. Golden Steven King Summer (A book club with Laura Tremaine) On Writing: A Memoir of the Craft by Stephen King The Stand by Stephen King Guest’s Links: Laura’s Instagram Laura’s Facebook Laura’s Podcast Laura’s Amazon Laura’s Website Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you or anyone you know and love has ever had issues with their mental health, you know how painful it can be. As we conclude our “For the Love of Being Seen and Heard” series, we just want to remind you that there's no shame in admitting that you might need a little help. Maybe you’re feeling low, or more anxious than usual, or sad, scared, or just off—anything that feels different or keeps you from flourishing. Our guest today is here to encourage you to take agency over your mental health, and as a therapist herself, she’s here to help us shed those stigmas around seeking help from a therapist or counselor. Lori Gottleib is a renowned psychotherapist, a bestselling author, and a leading voice in the mental health space. Her latest book (which was also a a selection for the Jen Hatmaker Book Club) Maybe You Should Talk To Somebody leads us into her own experiences with the transformative power of therapy and gives answers to those who might have hesitations about beginning this process. Lori and Jen talk about:  Identifying the stereotypes about therapy and debunking them, plus what to expect so that you can a get the most out of your time with a therapist Developing an attitude that mental health is just as important as physical help and that seeking a therapist is on the same level as getting a check up with a medical doctor toward whole body health Jen’s personal experiences with therapy - and how she processed pain and betrayal, plus what it looks like to be in active recovery Becoming aware of and taking responsiblity for our own patterns, actions and responses to life events as it pertains to our mental state and interactions with others  As Lori says, “one thing that therapy will teach you is how to be your real, messy, imperfect, fallible self, but also still love who you are.”   * * *  Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Vist jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I think a lot of people are maybe afraid to open up to a therapist. They're maybe afraid to say, ‘this is the truth of who I am.’f That's why I really wanted to be open about what I was going through when I went to therapy, because I want people to know that this is a space where we've seen it all, not only as a therapist, but as a person in the world ourselves.” - Lori Gottlieb “The more you can show the truth of who you are, the deeper your connections will be with the people in your life.” - Lori Gottlieb “The internet is the most effective short-term non-prescription painkiller out there because it's really something we use to distract ourselves.” - Lori Gottlieb  “The value of therapy is that you get wise compassion; we will hold up a mirror to you and we will help you to see what you haven't been willing or able to see about your role in the situation.” - Lori Gottlieb Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the Love of Reconnecting Podcast episode- Rewriting the Stories We Tell Ourselves: Lori Gottlieb Maybe You Should Talk to Somebody by Lori Gottlieb Jen Hatmaker Book Club Aspen Ideas Festival Dear Therapist Podcast Guy Winch’s Ted Talk Lori’s Atlantic Articles Maybe You Should Talk to Someone Workbook Maybe You Should Talk to Someone Journal Guest’s Links: Lori’s Website Lori’s Twitter Lori’s Instagram Lori’s Facebook   Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

To close out season one of the Make Me Care About Podcast, Jen sits down with the co-chair of The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, Melinda French Gates. In the spirit of helping us care about important, but sometimes little known facts, resources and phenomena, in this final episode, Melinda helps Jen wrap the season by discussing why she thinks we should care, and why she herself cares about the topics discussed throughout the first season. She also fills us in on what new initiatives are brewing at the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and the foundation's future. She discusses a central tenet toward enhancing women’s economic power, and why she believes this is such an important goal for the foundation. Join Jen and Melinda as they discuss: What happens when we start to care about important topics like the ones discussed in this Make Me Care About series How women having true economic power changes everything in their household and in the world Jen’s pick on the episode from this season that had the most impact on her How Melinda’s travels around the world provide crucial perspective on other cultures and ways of life toward helping others thrive You won’t want to miss this fascinating wrap to Season One of the Make Me Care About Podcast with special guest Melinda French Gates. *** Gates Foundation Links Make Me Care About Podcast Series Gates Foundation  Resources for this Episode Krystal Payne Deon Woods Bell Chef Pierre Thiam Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with another installment of our Being Seen and Heard series, and we think this one is going to strike a nerve with many of you out there who are looking for a better, stronger, fairer, narrative when it comes to the balance of work in your home and toward raising children. Are you the one in your relationship who is handling the lion’s share of the care and feeding of your littles PLUS taking care of their pickups and dropoffs to school, daycare, sports, bathtimes, bedtimes, wiping noses, butts PLUS managing the domestic front of grocery shopping, cleaning, organizing, handling the social calendar, vacations, PLUS working a 40 hour a week job either inside or outside the home? We see you and are asking a question that maybe you ask every day; why are women still, in a day and age where we make up 55.9 percent of the workforce and where 40 percent are the main breadwinner in the home, still responsible for so much when it comes to child rearing and domestic workload? Our guest this week has created a national conversation about greater equality on the home front with a system she created through intense research that helps couples create balance, by understanding that women are doing what she calls almost all of the “invisible labor” in the home, with at least two thirds of them having a job outside the home as well. Eve Rodsky is a Harvard Law School grad with years of training in organizational management When she had her first child (and began to see her identity at her job being stripped away because of it) and then began the dance of balancing her job with all of her duties as a mother (for which she bore the lion’s share of the domestic and child rearing responsibilities, as so many women do) she started to wonder: what would it be like if couples could reimagine their relationships as to how it relates to rebalancing the work it takes to run a home? So began her “Fair Play” system, where she sets couples up for success in relationship and parenting by helping them change the way they think and talk about their home life.  Jen and Eve discuss:  The patriarchal history that has been around for centuries that informs why the imbalance of domestic workload still exists when so many other categories for women have been elevated How important it is to invite men into their full power into the home, removing barriers and stereotypes as to what men’s and women’s strengths are there Changing the notion that women’s time is somehow less important than men’s–and that the “invisible work” women do is toward guarding the time of men  How the overwhelming pace of work, child rearing and home management eventually ends up making us sick and damaging our relationships, and what we can do about it  BONUS: Eve puts Jen to the test with a question from her Fair Play card deck where we dive deep into Jen’s family values–a question that is illuminating to all of us in understanding each other in relationship.  Thank you to our sponsors! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Changing and inviting men into their full power in the home is the only way women are gonna be able to step out into their full power in the world.” - Eve Rodsky “We've convinced women that their time is sand. It's infinite. Whereas we guard men's time as if it's finite like diamonds.” - Eve Rodsky Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Peter Drucker Robert Waldinger Ted Talk Fair Play Life Instagram Fairlifeplay.com I’m Glad My Mom Died by Jennette McCurdy - book recommendation Tiny Beautiful Things by Cheryl Strayed - book recommendation  The Kingdom of Prep: The Inside Story of the Rise and (Near) Fall of J. Crew - book recommendation Guest’s Links: Eve’s Website Eve’s Facebook Eve’s Instagram Eve’s Twitter Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with maybe the most foundational episode in our Being Seen and Heard series–and it’s all about how we see ourselves. Were you taught to love yourself when you were growing up? Many of us never grew up hearing anything about embodiment, and maybe we’ve treated our bodies as “the enemy” for most of our years. Maybe you grew up in a time where you didn’t see people that looked like you, or had your body type represented in magazines, on TV or in movies. Perhaps you even had shame about your body (or still do), and you bought into diet culture and were constantly worried about your size and the number on the scale. It’s hard to see ourselves as beautiful when we’re looking outside ourselves for a standard of beauty. Our guest today is doing the good work of helping people see themselves differently, and it’s giving them freedom to love themselves for who they are today. Jessamyn Stanley has become a powerful voice for wellness and body acceptance (she also dubs herself the “Beyonce’ of yoga” - who can’t get behind that?). After attending yoga classes with a friend, Jessamyn fell in love with it, but she noticed that she didn’t see anyone who looked like her or had a body like hers–and when she moved to a different city and wasn’t attending yoga classes anymore—she craved a community to share her practice–except she wanted all kinds of people and body types to be a part of it. She began sharing her yoga practice on Instagram in 2012 and was amazed by the overwhelming response from many who had never done yoga before because they had felt just like Jessamyn had–that maybe it wasn’t for “people like them.” Her fledgling Insta-yoga classes grew into an organization called The Underbelly, a unique and inclusive digital wellness experience that draws thousands of people into its safe, accepting space. Jen and Jessamyn touch on these topics:  Jessamyn’s experience being ashamed of her body as a middle schooler and being bullied for being different and how she looks at those years of bullying as a revelation that everyone is self conscious about their bodies-bullies included The realization we all have at the end of the day; all we have is ourselves-and if we can accept ourselves as we are right now-not who we thought we should be, or who we might be-we’ll enjoy the ability to be fully present and authentic in all of our encounters Debunking the long held notion that many people have about black women (and also that black women have been taught to believe) that they are “stronger” and “superwomen,” and what it means to allow themselves moments of rest and self-care  Key changes that could be made to empower everyone to have their own agency toward self care, by making it possible for anyone-no matter how much money you make, or where you live-to participate in wellness practices like yoga  Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Middle school was a time when I was really heavily bullied. That experience for me, looking back, was one of the greatest experiences because what it was actually teaching me is: everyone is self-conscious about their body. There's no one who is not self-conscious. And the person who bullies is having the most traumatic experience.” -Jessamyn Stanley “If I am all I have, then I have to learn to accept myself where I am right now. Not where I could be in the future, or where I thought I should have been 10 years ago. Like, what does it mean to just be who I am today?” -Jessamyn Stanley Resources: Leslie Kinzel - Body acceptance writer Maryanne Kirby - Body acceptance writer Nicolette Mason - Fat fashion blogger Dianne Bondi - Yoga practitioner Bikram Yoga Guest Links: Jessamyn’s TikTok Jessamyn’s Instagram Jessamyn’s Twitter  The Underbelly Yoga Jessamyn’s People Magazine feature  Jessamyn's Books @theBabySharkClub - Jessamyn’s dog's Instagram Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you’ve listened long enough to our show and also follow Jen, you probably know that the conversations we invite come in many stripes—thoughtful, timely, fun, encouraging, helpful, educational and inclusive—plus, we’re not afraid to veer into some of the deeper stuff. Important stuff that is sometimes hard to wrap our heads around, but if we don’t, no change can occur. Whatever we think about gun rights, there are voices to consider who are doing hard work to create a future where kids can safely attend schools, where people won’t be shot just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, where mass shootings become a thing of the past. Wherever you stand on the spectrum of this issue, at the end of the day, many polls show that roughly 90% of us agree that we should have stricter gun laws. So we’re opening the For the Love Floor to someone who is seeing and hearing first hand from families affected by gun violence, who makes it her priority to educate the public, and puts the issue in front of legislators for increased gun safety. Gloria Pan is the VP of Moms Rising, a group of caring moms who take on the most critical issues facing women, mothers and families. She’s the head of their gun safety initiative and works with their membership to accelerate impact on Capitol Hill and state capitols to affect legislative change. She's also been a trusted voice who’s spread the message on CNN, with The Los Angeles Times, NPR, and all kinds of media platforms.  Gloria and Jen have a discussion around:  + The origins of the 2nd Amendment and how the narrative of guns rights proponents has been shaped over the last 50 years  + Practical steps toward what we all can do if we want to make our voices heard about this issue and take action toward better gun safety + Hope toward a new generation of young people who are engaged in creating a better future and are paying attention in ways perhaps previous generations haven’t  This work is not glamorous and can be full of disappointment, as moving mountains can often be. We’re grateful to people like Gloria who give us a glimpse from inside the fight, and bring us hope that change can really happen. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Gun violence deaths in this country hovered around 32,000 people a year. That was pretty consistent for many years. Now we're nearing 50,000 and we have so many guns. We have more guns than people in this country.” - Gloria Pan “We consider all moms and families who care about the future of their families and their communities and our country as our constituency. We very much believe that our job is to bring their voices and their concerns to the policy-making table” - Gloria Pan “Not too long ago, issues that are concerning for moms and families were never even talked about in Congress. Childcare, paid family and medical leave, and policies that enabled families to be able to care for our families were never even talked about. But because of the work of MomsRising, our partners out there, and moms and families speaking out, it is now front and center for many lawmakers.” - Gloria Pan "Join us. Help us build this momentum toward this future where the well-being of families is front and center for this country. Because what are we without our families?" - Gloria Pan Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Sandy Hook Maxwell Frost Attitudes Toward Gun Ownership in America: Pew Research 2008 Heller Decision  The Bruen Decision The Cincinnati Revolt Article on Maxwell Frost and Parkland Florida Guest’s Links: Gloria’s Website Gloria’s Instagram Gloria’s Twitter Gloria’s Pinterest Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s another week of our illuminating For the Love of Being Seen and Heard series. We’re talking to people that are doing the life-changing work of helping each other see and hear each other–to see and hear communities that we are not a part of, to see and hear voices that have been traditionally silenced or marginalized, or even to see and hear ourselves in honest and affirming ways. Our guest this week is a powerful advocate, but with a tender heart who works in so many spaces that matter: feminism, racial justice, the arts, activism, self care and healing. Rachel Cargle is a writer and entrepreneur who has created powerful online learning spaces. She’s a regular contributor to Cultured Magazine, The Cut and Atmos. She’s been featured in the New York Times and Forbes as well. Her work centers around an invitation to pursue healing and growth, as well as re-imagining how systems that no longer serve us can be dismantled or changed to embrace justice and liberation. Her belief is that every one of us has power–the power to unlearn, relearn and reimagine–taking ourselves out of stuck spaces and creating places for understanding for everyone. Her thoughts on feminism are so insightful as she looks at how a well intentioned movement for the progress of women leaves out key communities and how reimagining how to see and hear the needs of every woman toward better conditions for all women. This powerful discussion centers around: An explanation and brief history of the feminist movement and how communities of color often are left behind in this work How the culture, both inside and outside of black communities often stereotype black women as workers, as strong, as able to bear pain differently than their white counterparts; and Rachel’s work to help black women feel cared for–which leads to an amazing ripple effect on families, organizations and communities The Loveland Foundation, which gives black women access to black therapists, to self-care and to other resources that are so often not readily or affordably available  Simple ways that women can get involved in the conversation to become clear about this intersection of feminism and race by hearing and telling truths, and to engage in knowledge, empathy, and action.  Sometimes the truth can be hard to process, but when there is intentionality in how we exist in our efforts toward benefitting the condition of women, the result is liberation for all women.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I believe that when black women are poured into, it really offers a ripple effect to most other places in our communities and societies.” - Rachel Cargle "The systems are insistent on us not being curious. If we're not curious, they must stay the same. And if they stay the same the people who built them to win will continue winning." - Rachel Cargle "A lot of what I didn't yet know was what it meant to be a black woman in the feminist movement, in spaces full of white women who were having a very different experience than I was, and who were benefiting from the outcomes of our collective work--more than the black women who were doing equal amounts of the work--and sometimes even more of the work in these spaces." - Rachel Cargle Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Photo of Rachel from the Women’s March in 2017 per Huffington Post article “Feminism is White Supremacy In Heels” an article by Rachel Cargle in Harper’s Bazaar Elizabeth Cady Staton Ida B. Wells Be the Bridge Ebony Janice Website The Loveland FoundationElizabeth’s Bookshop & Writing Centre Rich Auntie Supreme Instagram The Great Unlearn Guest’s Links: Rachel’s Website Rachel’s Facebook Rachel’s Twitter Rachel’s Instagram Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back for more of our Being Seen and Heard series! In a time where it feels like we are struggling to really see and hear one another, there are some bright lights who make it their mission to help one another understand each other a little better. Our guest today, Sara Cunningham, the founder of FreeMomHugs.org, is one amazing example of what can happen when we really see people for who they are and begin to hear their stories. Sara was on the show right at the beginning of her journey with Free Mom Hugs, and now the org—which started with the simple idea of attending Pride parades and holding up a sign that said “Free Mom Hugs,”—has become a national and world wide phenomenon. She uses her own experience as a guide to how she advocates, and is absolutely passionate about connecting with faith, civic, business, and government leaders in efforts to make the world a kinder safer place for our LGBTQIA+ family.   Sara and Jen touch on these topics: Sara’s roots in conservative evangelicalism and how she found herself moving “from the church to the pride parade” after she reckoned with her son’s admission that he was gay and going to live in his identity  The stories of people who, after coming out, lost their families, were kicked out of their churches, and felt completely alone and found solace and comfort in the simple act of a mom extending a hug Sara’s son Parker’s (as well as her own) journey of self-discovery and then coming to live authentically after seeing others, who had come out in faith environments, survive and thrive after loss  How we can affect change with our voices as it relates to legislation that targets the LGBTQIA+ community * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! MeCourse: LGBTQIA+ | LGBTQIA+ Parenting e-course from Jen and special guests is available for order. Visit https://www.mecourse.org/lgbtqia-parenting for more info. FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I remember there was a time, at the beginning of that journey, I call from the church to the pride parade. It was like reality was setting in. The bubble that I was in, the evangelical conservative mainstream bubble that I was in where everyone looked like me and talked like me, had just shattered. And I wanted to take a banner and put it outside of my house on the front door, like, welcome to the real world. And suddenly it's like my eyes are truly open.” - Sara Cunningham “I think about [my son] Parker early on in his journey of self-discovery and then coming to live authentically. He had people in his life that had survived the loss, who had survived being outed, kicked out of their place of worship and losing their family. Just seeing them go beyond that and thriving and having a place of their own and working and contributing to society; he saw people that had faced what he feared and then came out on the other side of it.” - Sara Cunningham  “Our mission statement is that we empower the world to celebrate the community through visibility, education, and conversation.” - Sara Cunningham, about FreeMomHugs.org Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Mama Bears FTL Episode ft. Sydney Hatmaker  Kai Shappley’s Website Free Mom Hugs Revolution Conference Kimberly Shappley’s Website Glennon Doyle’s Website How We Sleep at Night: A Mother’s Memoir by Sara Cunningham Good Friend with Jamie Lee Curtis ft Sara Cunningham HRC Oklahoma ACLU Oklahoma Freedom Oklahoma Guest’s Links: FreeMomHugs Website FreeMomHugs Facebook FreeMomHugs Instagram FreeMomHugs Twitter FreeMomHugs Youtube Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with our series For The Love of Being Seen and Heard. There is so much right now floating around in culture about what happens to us when we don’t feel like we’re either being seen or heard. For most of us, the longing to be understood by others is a core need. And for some groups or communities, including the disabled community, the task of being seen, heard and understood is more challenging, and we’ll hear why as we talk with disabled scholar-practitioner Dr. Amy Kenny. Dr. Kenny has made it her life’s work to shed light on and help clear up misunderstandings around the abled community’s view of the disabled. Her latest book, My Body Is Not a Prayer Request does a deep dive into one of those communities—places of faith—and the particular biases and unintentional ableism propagated there. Amy compassionately offers insight and solutions toward understanding in a new way.  Jen and Dr. Kenny discuss:  Common misunderstandings that abled people have toward disabled people plus words and actions they can learn from disabled people toward connectedness The “invisible qualities of God’s divine nature” and how we might be able to accept imperfections in nature, even considering them beautiful, but are unable to accept or find beauty in the imperfections of our bodies  “Inspiration porn” a phrase that relates to the overall view of disabled folks being the poster children for overcoming—putting them in the position of feeling as if they are objects on a pedestal and that their sole purpose in life is to inspire the abled  The challenges around access for disabled people and how to think differently about the right of access for all people  There’s hope in this conversation, and Amy guides us to a place where we can unlearn some ableist tendencies and learn more about a community that has much to contribute to our world.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Visit https://www.chime.com/apply-debit/?ad=podcast_forthelove to learn how you can benefit from using Chime BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! MeCourse: LGBTQIA+ | LGBTQIA+ Parenting e-course from Jen and special guests is available for order. Visit https://www.mecourse.org/lgbtqia-parenting for more info. Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I'm not ashamed of my disability. It's an intrinsic part of the way that I navigate the world and the way that I am treated by the world and by various communities.” - Dr. Amy Kenny "I grew up in a household and in a church community that taught me that everyone was made in the image of God. And I had the audacity to believe it. Unfortunately, I wasn't treated as though I was made in the image of God a lot of times because I received potions and prayers and all kinds of shaming tactics to try to pray me away, essentially." - Dr. Amy Kenny "It's a beautiful interdependence that disabled folks bring and that we all can co-flourish when we have interdependence with one another." - Dr. Amy Kenny "We create this hierarchy of worth in humanity where we have societally constructed ideas of what's normal, who's intelligent, what's productive enough--who's contributing enough. All of those ideas uphold, ableism, racism, transphobia, colonialism, they're all interconnected." - Dr. Amy Kenny  "My body is made of the same stuff as stars. Just watch me shine." - Dr. Amy Kenny “I have learned from the disability community that I have permission to show up as myself.” - Dr. Amy Kenny Resources Mentioned in This Episode: My Body is Not a Prayer Request by Dr. Amy Kenny Georgetown University’s Disability Culture Initiative Stella Young’s Memorial Website Maysoon Zayid’s website Zoom Guest’s Links: Dr. Amy Kenny’s website  Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re at the tail end of our For the Love of Calming the Chaos series–and if you’ve gotten a chance to hear the whole series, we hope you’ve been able to take away some actionable items toward further peace in your life. Our last episode in the series is the perfect capper toward extending that ability to calm the chaos during the disruptive times of our lives, but also during the heartbreakingly difficult times. Our guest this week brings us the very comforting message that simply bucking up or trying to cheerlead ourselves into positivity isn't going to cut it. She gives us permission to actively accept our sadness, and then some tools for how to process it and move it from chaos to a place of peace. Katherine May is an international best-selling author, including the books Enchantment Awakening Wonder in An Anxious Age and Wintering: The Power of Rest and Retreat in Difficult Times. Katherine is going to walk us through not only her own story of a hard winter season she endured, and what she learned, but she’ll show us how we can be gentle with ourselves and believe that we deserve peace, no matter the circumstances.   Jen and Katherine talk about: When those winter seasons come, just when you think you can’t or will never be happy again and the dark pit feels too overwhelming; that’s typically when the winter begins to cease and recovery begins Giving yourself grace to believe you haven’t done anything wrong if you’re still suffering a week, a month or even six months later - the process of unlearning your old ways of life and relearning new ones can be painful and lengthy Not all the lessons we learn come from happiness, they come from sorrow, and how to accept that   Chaos doesn’t just emanate from choices that we've made or that we've onboarded too many things, but sometimes when tragedy or heartache has found its way to our doorstep. Allowing ourselves to rest and retreat at these times is a gift we can all give ourselves.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Rothy’s | $20 off your first purchase by visiting Rothys.com/forthelove Make Me Care About…Podcast | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts. Caraway | Save 10% on your next purchase on all Caraway products by visiting carawayhome.com/forthelove and use code: forthelove  Thought-Provoking Quotes: “One of the defining parts of [a season of winter] is that feeling of being trapped in a space with a window onto the outside world. And it seems like everybody else is carrying on and they're all fine. And you are uniquely not fine.” - Katherine May  “There's something about how raw you are in that time [of suffering]. So there are moments of intense beauty that are an integral part of this, part of the suffering.”- Katherine May  “People who've gone through major winters always seem to look back and say, ‘do you know what? I wouldn't have not gone through it if it meant that I couldn't be who I am now.’ You almost appreciate them because change is always necessary.” - Katherine May  “You are not alone. You feel very alone, but you are actually part of a massive community of other people who are going through the same thing as you, but maybe for different reasons. And there's this incredible bond between all of you that might not be obvious, but you can trust this space and you can trust your sadness.” - Katherine May Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Enchantment: Awakening Wonder in an Anxious Age - book by Katherine May Wintering, the Power of Rest and Retreat in Difficult Times - book by Katherine May   Guest’s Links: Katherine’s Website Katherine’s Instagram Katherine’s Pinterest Connect with Jen!: Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube   To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices