Simulmedia CEO Dave Morgan talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about the future of TV advertising, which has historically been "not so broken that it’s had to be fixed." However, Morgan's company is betting that big advertisers will want their TV ads to start working more like digital ads, personalized to each viewer and able to be connected with buying behavior. He also talks about how his first company, Real Media, weathered the dot-com crash, why the advertising world hasn't changed as quickly as he once predicted and why TV is a much bigger deal than most people in the tech bubble would assume. Plus: A bonus chat with the New York Times' Jim Rutenberg about how Russia used social media to meddle in the U.S. election and what that means for Silicon Valley companies. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Documentarian Ken Burns talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about his new 18-hour documentary, "The Vietnam War." Burns says he sought to upend conventional wisdom about the war by rewinding the iconic images, stories and music of the time and telling history through the lens of all the countries involved in the fighting. He believes we are in a "golden age" of documentaries, but Burns says he has no desire to leave his career-long home, PBS, for a more digital-focused platform like HBO, Netflix or Amazon. He also talks about how war documentaries will change now that no one writes letters anymore, why critics have stopped fretting about the length of his films and why it's okay to watch that cute cat video online — so long as you come back to something more substantial later on. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Mother Jones Editor in Chief Clara Jeffery talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about how the progressive magazine made its business model work on the web, with more than $15 million in revenue per year. Jeffery says the media put itself in an economic crisis by ignoring the business side of its work and argues that the best way to fund "stuff that's not just cat videos" is to ask readers and viewers for donations. She also reflects on how journalism has changed since Donald Trump won the presidency, why she still blames Facebook and Twitter for helping him win and why she's skeptical of media companies "pivoting to video." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tim Armstrong, the CEO of Verizon's media properties Yahoo and AOL, talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about how those sites — collectively known as Oath — will survive and evolve. Armstrong, previously an early sales exec at Google, says competing directly against Google and Facebook for advertising dollars would be "the worst thing we could do" and instead, Oath plans to find other ways to win a piece of the pie. He also explains why it makes sense for Verizon to own Yahoo and AOL in the first place, what he learned from the struggles of local news site Patch and whether he would run for political office (no). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

CNN's Oliver Darcy and BuzzFeed's Charlie Warzel talk with Recode's Peter Kafka about how they report on the many facets of the far-right media, which has exploded in prominence thanks to President Trump. They talk about how ideas, memes and conspiracy theories originated on websites like Breitbart or message boards like Reddit's /r/The_Donald can bubble up to more traditional conservative outlets — or even the White House. Darcy argues that Drudge Report founder Matt Drudge is the center of this digitally savvy lineup, acting along with Twitter as the most important gateway to the mainstream. Warzel explains why he's careful not to label everyone a "Nazi," instead offering the alt-right and others in the new landscape of pro-Trump media a "tough but fair shake." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Writer Chuck Klosterman talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about his new book, "Chuck Klosterman X," a collection of essays and profiles he wrote for such outlets as Esquire, Grantland and the New York Times Magazine. Klosterman says he wants people to talk about what he writes, not how he writes it, and considers how politics, social media and the rise of media analytics have reshaped the work of journalism. He says he intentionally tries to avoid the tropes that his peers in the magazine world fall back on: Pretending that his interviews are casual, friendly conversations; taking subjects to weird places simply for the sake of a stylish opening; and, when the subject is a woman like Taylor Swift, talking about what she is wearing or what she looks like. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Patreon CEO Jack Conte talks with Recode’s Peter Kafka about why the current version of the web, where content is mostly free and supported by ads, is not necessarily the “best version.” Conte’s site makes it possible for subscribers — or "patrons" — to pay creators for what they make and get bonus content or other perks in return, and it's on track to process $150 million in 2017. He predicts that Patreon will one day go public, and explains why he really, really hates it when people call Patreon a “tip jar” or a “fan club.” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Univision's new Chief Revenue Officer Tonia O'Connor talks with Recode's Edmund Lee about how the company has grown from a handful of Spanish-language TV channels to 17 TV and digital channels. O'Connor says TV is still the hot ticket for everyone, even once-digital-only players like the former Gawker sites, which Univision acquired last year for $135 million. She also talks about how the company serves as an intermediary for reaching Hispanic consumers; why it changed course on Fusion TV and is putting less news on the air; and why she sees it as her "life's mission" to help other women succeed in business. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tastemade CEO Larry Fitzgibbon talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about building a digital media company around food-as-lifestyle that reaches more than 200 million people per month. Fitzgibbon, who was previously an executive at Demand Media, says quality is the new key to succeeding in online video across all platforms — social, mobile and possibly TV. Later in the show, Eater Editor at Large Helen Rosner joins Peter in the studio to discuss why there are no new celebrity chefs on TV and how food culture became cool. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Writer, marketer and self-proclaimed media manipulator Ryan Holiday talks with Recode’s Peter Kafka about his new book, “Perennial Seller,” which explores “the art of making and marketing work that lasts.” He argues that creators over-value how their work launches, and don’t pay enough attention to how their decisions — from start to finish — affect its staying power. Holiday also talks about how his 2012 book, “Trust Me, I’m Lying,” predicted the alt-right’s approach to media manipulation, and explains why the ancient Roman philosophy of stoicism is still resonating today with everyone from the Secretary of Defense to startup founders in Silicon Valley. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Viacom and CBS Vice Chair Shari Redstone talks with Recode's Peter Kafka at the 2017 Code Conference about the venture firm she co-founded in 2011, Advancit Capital, and why it operates outside of her other companies. She says her biggest mistake there was not investing in Twitch in 2011 because she thought the video game-streaming company was already too highly valued. Redstone also discusses how content companies like Viacom are facing the challenges of the digital age and why they don't necessarily need to sell themselves off, as Time Warner is trying to do. She says she's not too worried about tech companies like Twitter, Google and Facebook making bids for the rights to NFL games, which CBS has locked up for several years. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nick Quah, the founder and writer of the podcasting industry newsletter Hot Pod, talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about where podcasts are headed next. Quah says two events in 2014 — Apple's decision to make the Podcasts app a default one on iOS and the success of the true crime show "Serial" — are responsible for the explosion of interest in podcasts over the past few years. His newsletter, which currently reaches about 11,000 inboxes, is aimed at people who work in the growing industry and has become his full-time job, along with several side hustles. Quah also discusses how Apple's plans to share more data about podcasts' audiences with their creators will be good in the long term for most shows, but could spell bad news for some of them. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

New York Magazine's Rebecca Traister talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about covering the intersection of gender and politics and her recent profile of Hillary Clinton's post-election life. Traister explains how she gradually convinced Clinton's campaign to give her access to its candidate, and how everything changed after Nov. 8. She also analyzes Clinton's appearance at the 2017 Code Conference, where the former Secretary of State was reluctant to admit any missteps that she would do over if given the chance.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Director Brian Knappenberger talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about his new documentary "Nobody Speak: Trials of the Free Press," which premieres on Netflix on June 23. In it, Knappenberger connects venture capitalist Peter Thiel's successful lawsuit against Gawker Media, by way of pro wrestler Hulk Hogan; the rise of Donald Trump to the presidency amid increasing distrust of the media; and the secretive sale of the Las Vegas Journal-Review to billionaire casino magnate Sheldon Adelson. Knappenberger says these incidents are all intertwined, giving his new film an added level of urgency. He also talks about why the work of the Washington Post and the New York Times is a "ray of hope" for newsrooms everywhere. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this special bonus episode from the 2017 Code Conference, New York Times Executive Editor Dean Baquet talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about how the newspaper's journalists are covering President Donald Trump and why there are so many leaks coming out of Washington at the moment. Baquet acknowledges that many journalists, including him, misunderstood the "anger and anti-elitism" that elevated Trump, and defends the hiring of climate skeptic Bret Stephens as an opinion columnist, saying people on the left should be willing to hear him out. He also warns that local news is "verging on a crisis" and smaller outlets around the country may have to be rescued by technologists and philanthropists. Baquet says one of his other goals is figuring out how to update the "voice" of the Times to match the way people talk online. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

BTIG's Rich Greenfield talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about being an outspoken media and technology analyst who has made enemies throughout Hollywood and much of the big-media landscape. Greenfield has advised clients to bet on Netflix and against Disney as the traditional paid content model breaks down, but also readily cops to the times in the past when he has been wrong. He also talks about why investors have to keep an eye on the startup ecosystem, the importance of data for anyone in media who wants to go direct-to-consumer, and why Google should buy Spotify. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this special bonus episode from Code Conference 2017, Netflix CEO Reed Hastings talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about the video-streaming platform's continuing push into making original TV and movies. He says current windowing practices, in which movies are exclusively in theaters for a time before they're available in the home, will inevitably go away. Hastings also explains why Netflix has backed off of working in China, why it has no plans to carry sports or ad-supported content and why Netflix is in favor of net neutrality even though the company is so big that it doesn't need it anymore. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Media mogul Ken Lerer — the chairman of BuzzFeed, a board member at Viacom and a venture capitalist — talks with Recode’s Peter Kafka about the media landscape in 2017. Lerer, who previously helped start MTV and co-founded HuffPost with Arianna Huffington, discusses why BuzzFeed did the right thing with its explosive Trump dossier, what he looks for in companies he invests in, and why he’s more optimistic about AT&T’s pending acquisition of Time Warner than he is about Verizon’s deal to buy Yahoo and AOL. He also makes the case for a Breitbart-style online news outlet for liberals. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Michael McKean, who plays Chuck McGill on AMC's "Better Call Saul" and has previously appeared in films such as "This Is Spinal Tap" and "Clue," talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about the process of acting and comedy. McKean is currently appearing in a dramatic play on Broadway (a new production of Lillian Hellman’s "The Little Foxes") and he says he’s glad the audience usually leaves their phones off. He also chats about improvising with Christopher Guest, his brief stint on "Saturday Night Live" and why he doesn't think much about how people are watching his work. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Amir Bar-Lev, the director of the new documentary "Long Strange Trip," talks with Recode's Peter Kafka. The four-hour film, which traces the history and cultural impact of the Grateful Dead and its fans, will be released in theaters and will stream via Amazon Prime Video. Bar-Lev says it's accessible to both Deadheads and non-fans alike and that he made it in part as a reaction to how Instagram culture has made people believe they are "mini celebrities." He also argues that mainstream observers have neutered the Dead's legacy by trying to cast them as tech or business geniuses, when in fact they always put art ahead of commerce. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Information CEO Jessica Lessin talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about why her news site, which reports on tech and business, puts its content behind a $400-per-year pay wall. Lessin says the default assumption should be that news is paid for because it provides value to people's lives. She also talks about why she left the Wall Street Journal in 2013, what most people get wrong about Facebook and its CEO Mark Zuckerberg and why sexual harassment at companies like Uber is the toughest story in tech to crack. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Comedian, author and TV host W. Kamau Bell talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about the second season of his podcast, "Politically Re-Active," and his CNN show, "United Shades of America." Bell explains why his podcast persona is seemingly different from the Kamau that people see on TV, and how both of those things compare to being a stand-up comic. He also talks about the misconceptions that follow him as a comedian who is "always talking about racism" and why he doesn't mind too much if he bombs at a big, broad comedy club. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Journalist Nick Bilton talks with Recode's Jason Del Rey about his new book, "American Kingpin." It tells the story of Ross Ulbricht, the programmer and "criminal mastermind" who founded the Silk Road, a notorious online black market where everything from drugs to guns could be bought and sold anonymously. Bilton, a special correspondent for Vanity Fair, also talks about why he left the New York Times in 2016 after more than a decade there, saying he didn't feel challenged by the newspaper's predictability and rigidity. He also argues that, contrary to what the Facebook CEO claims, Mark Zuckerberg is likely running for president — or perhaps planning some other major change that necessitates a heavily photographed tour of the United States. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Doree Shafrir, a writer at BuzzFeed News and the author of "Startup: A Novel," talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about updating the coming-of-age-in-New-York story for the modern media scene, where working at a print magazine is not the holy grail. "Startup" satirizes what happens when a tech reporter uncovers a scandal involving the 28-year-old CEO of a mindfulness app. Shafrir says one of the weirdest ways she has promoted "Startup" is on "Matt and Doree's Eggcellent Adventure," a podcast about in vitro fertilization she hosts with her husband, Matt Mira. She also talks about working at the New York Observer under Jared Kushner and at Gawker when it was a largely obscure, New York-specific website. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Author Neil Gaiman talks with Recode’s Peter Kafka about the TV adaptation of his novel ‘American Gods,’ which debuts April 30 on Starz. Gaiman says ‘American Gods’ is a ‘big, sprawling’ story that could have never been made when the book came out, in 2001 — the rise of prestige TV and consumers’ online binging habits made it possible. He also talks about working in comics, what he thinks of President Trump, and why he’s fascinated by — but not making content for — VR. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Axios co-founder Mike Allen talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about demystifying the chaotic news of the world in his daily newsletter, Axios AM. Allen says the palace intrigue in the White House is more complicated than it may seem at first blush and explains how he has kept his access to the Trump White House even as coverage of the new administration has soured. He also chats about his previous job writing for D.C. insiders at Politico and how Axios is trying to reach the much broader audience of busy people everywhere who want to be smarter. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Studio71 CEO Reza Izad talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about how the business of online video has changed in recent years. Izad came to Studio71 when the German TV station ProSieben bought an earlier company that he co-founded, Collective Digital Studio, and he has worked with YouTube celebrities such as Fred, Lilly Singh and Roman Atwood. He believes "everything that’s successful in entertainment is an outlier" and talks about how digital stars can make the jump to other online platforms and traditional TV. Izad also chats about why Facebook's video ascendancy is a question of when, not if. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Angel investor Jason Calacanis talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about his media company Inside, and why it plans to launch a new email newsletter every week in 2017, for a total of more than 60 by year's end. He also chats about his past companies, including Mahalo and Weblogs Inc., and how he became one of Uber's first investors. Calacanis explains his angel investing philosophy, which favors founders who have built something over those who just come to meetings with an unrealized idea. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Singer, songwriter and The Hold Steady frontman Craig Finn talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about his new solo album, "We All Want the Same Things." Finn still enjoys the life of a touring musician but explains why it's unlikely that The Hold Steady will do another big multi-city tour in the near future. Even though the world is politically divided, he says, music can still play a big role in building communities and friendships among strangers. Finn also discusses working with Bruce Springsteen, opening for The Rolling Stones and adapting lyrics written by George R.R. Martin into a song for the "Game of Thrones" TV show. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Former Fox News commentator and TheBlaze founder Glenn Beck talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about being a conservative media personality at a time when a Republican he hates, Donald Trump, is president. Speaking in front of a live audience at South by Southwest 2017, Beck says he doesn't care if Trump supporters no longer listen to him, because "right is right, wrong is wrong." He also weighs in on how Breitbart became a "platform for the alt-right" under Steve Bannon after the passing of its founder, Andrew Breitbart, and says that politicians need to put aside party labels to talk about big issues — such as how the rise of robots and artificial intelligence could lead to "50 percent unemployment" in the next 40 years. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Huffington Post's new editor in chief, Lydia Polgreen, talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about turning the liberal news site founded by Arianna Huffington 11 years ago into a destination for a larger audience — including some of Donald Trump's supporters. Polgreen, who spent 15 years at The New York Times before joining HuffPost late last year, said she wants to help liberals, conservatives and everyone in between see how much they have in common. She also talks about why she left the NYT, the gaps between "have and have-not" media consumers, and how she reacted when HuffPost was barred from a White House press briefing. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Mashable Executive Editor Jessica Coen talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about taking the reins of the 12-year-old site last year and how she's working to focus its writers on the stories it can do best. Coen previously spent two years editing Gawker.com and five in charge of Jezebel, Gawker Media's feminist site. She chats about bringing a bit of the Gawker voice to Mashable's writing, where the site is investing the most (video and Snapchat) and her advice for young journalists trying to break into the media business. Coen also discusses the most dramatic moment of her tenure at Gawker: The publication of a sex tape starring Limp Bizkit's Fred Durst. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Screenwriter and novelist Scott Frank talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about writing a superhero movie for people who don't like superhero movies: "Logan," an R-rated sendoff for Wolverine, Hugh Jackman's iconic "X-Men" character. Frank explains how he lucked his way into a job at Paramount at age 24 and what he learned from writing films like "Get Shorty," "Malice" and "Out of Sight." He also discusses his next project after "Logan" — a western miniseries for Netflix called "Godless" — and why, after a long career in Hollywood, he decided last year to write his first novel, "Shaker." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Wired contributor Gabriel Snyder talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about his recent cover story for Wired magazine, "The New York Times Claws Its Way Into the Future." Snyder profiled how the storied newspaper is trying to adapt to the fast-failure-friendly M.O. of a tech company and says it's now betting on one big Netflix-like digital subscription, rather than the multiple smaller subscription products it previously attempted. He also explains why it's so difficult for new ideas to make it up the chain of command inside the NYT and why so many young digital stars have left the company. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Derek Thompson, a senior editor at The Atlantic and author of "Hit Makers," talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about his new book, which explores the "Science of Popularity in the Age of Distraction." Thompson says contrary to conventional wisdom, content is not as important as how you distribute it, and things don't "go viral" the way an actual virus does — instead, they benefit the most from existing social networks and distribution channels that preceded them. He also says ESPN, which is struggling to make as much money from TV as it used to, needs to re-orient its strategy around the smartphone lock screen, rather than the television screen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Business Insider CEO Henry Blodget talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about why he sold the company to German publisher Axel Springer and why BI is moving toward paid newspaper-like subscriptions. Blodget says digital media is "as different from print and TV as they are from each other" and explains why cloning a newspaper for the web will never work. He also talks about why he took Donald Trump seriously from day one and says that despite a smart campaign, the new president is now advocating "un-American and anti-American" policies. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Deep Focus CEO Ian Schafer talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about why the digital advertising world is due for a shake-up. Schafer says he's skeptical of the branded content studios being created inside big media companies because he doubts they can compete with Google and Facebook for the same business. He argues that the online ad economy has grown too big and the future must entail "fewer, better ads" that may be more individualized to consumers and placed on new, unconventional platforms. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

NYU journalism professor Jay Rosen talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about how the media, and the reporters who cover the White House in particular, should react to President Trump, who has frequently been hostile to their profession. Rosen says media organizations need to rethink their structures and individual journalists will have to establish a more transparent relationship with their audiences. He also talks about why journalists shouldn't interview Trump surrogate Kellyanne Conway and what everyone can learn from Washington Post reporter David Fahrenthold. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Fox Networks ad boss Joe Marchese talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about why he, an online advertising executive, encourages consumers to use ad blockers. Marchese argues that the relationship between advertisers and the public needs to be reset because people see ads as interruptive and advertisers are paying up for smaller and smaller slices of the pie. He also says all of Fox's ads on Hulu and its own websites should be skippable, and talks about the one time of the year when everyone wants to see advertising — the Super Bowl. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Choose Yourself Media founder James Altucher, an entrepreneur and author of several advice books, talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about the importance of learning from failure in life and business. Altucher twice went from being a multimillionaire to nearly broke, and currently does not own a home even though his company grossed $11 million last year. He says people should consider the alternatives to things like buying a house, going to college and reading the news, focusing instead on the things that will directly affect their lives. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

LinkedIn Executive Editor Daniel Roth talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about overseeing the editorial branch of the career-networking site. Roth says LinkedIn users police themselves in ways they don't on Facebook because they know their bosses and colleagues can see them. Hailing from the world of magazine and digital journalism, he also discusses his initially rough transition to working at a tech company and what happened when he wrote a 5,000-word cover story about Donald Trump for Fortune in 2004. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Recode co-founder and Executive Editor Kara Swisher talks with Peter Kafka about why the media needs to be tougher and more skeptical in the aftermath of the 2016 election. Swisher says journalists too often behave like "stenographers," lazily relaying what people say without interrogating their ideas. She also discusses the rise of fake news on platforms like Facebook, how she worked her way up from the mailroom at the Washington Post and why she and Recode co-founder Walt Mossberg sold the site to Vox Media in 2015. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Washington Post media columnist Margaret Sullivan, formerly the public editor of the New York Times, talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about the effect of the incoming Trump administration on the world of political journalism. Sullivan says she initially thought, after Trump's win, that the media had completely failed, but has since moderated that position, and expects "a new kind of journalistic inquiry" will arise. She also discusses how she came to the New York Times, why she left the paper after three and a half years and why she still wants internet comments to have a place on media outlets' websites. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rooster Teeth co-founder Burnie Burns talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about how the early viral video hit "Red vs. Blue" evolved into a thriving media company. Burns says Rooster Teeth, which predated the launch of YouTube by several years, has succeeded because it goes deep and talks honestly with its young, geeky, video game-savvy fans. He also discusses how YouTube helped the company release its first feature film, "Lazer Team," and explains why he considers the 2014 harassment campaign Gamergate a prelude to Donald Trump's presidential win. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Journalist and "Freakonomics" co-author Stephen Dubner talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about how behavioral economics can explain Donald Trump's victory, arguing that racism and xenophobia are symptoms of a deeper-felt economic resentment. He also discusses widespread misunderstandings about probability and offers a partial defense of poll aggregators like FiveThirtyEight's Nate Silver. Later in the show, Dubner explains how "Freakonomics" became a mini media empire, why he's now almost all-in on podcasting and how Bruce Springsteen convinced him to quit rock and roll. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Observer editor-in-chief Ken Kurson talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about running the online newspaper published by Donald Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner. Kurson says Kushner has no day-to-day influence on the Observer. He argues that reactions to his alleged ethical lapses — such as his sitting with the Trump family at the Republican National Convention — are overblown or misguided, and says Hillary Clinton's supporters are overreacting to their loss. Kurson also says some journalists and pollsters who mis-called the election should resign or be fired, and explains why staying off Twitter has been good for his psyche. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bob Lefsetz, author of the influential music industry newsletter the Lefsetz Letter, talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about the winners and losers in the modern music business. Lefsetz says the traditional music label model was one of artificial scarcity, and there's no going back now that streaming services like YouTube and Spotify have arisen. He also argues that Netflix is doomed and VR is being mis-sold to the public. Later in the show, he reflects on the election of Donald Trump and why he's skeptical of the New York Times' ability to challenge the incoming U.S. president. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jim Lanzone, the CEO of CBS Interactive and chief digital officer of CBS, talks with Recode's Peter Kafka about the balance between free broadcast TV and paid online subscriptions. CBS has so far convinced more than a million people to pay $6 a month for its online service, CBS All Access. Lanzone says the company hopes to court even more subscribers with digital-only shows, including a spinoff of "The Good Wife" and a reboot of "Star Trek," which won't have to play by traditional FCC rules around nudity and swearing. He also makes the case for CBS' tech site CNET and discusses how he came to the company, via a digital TV guide site called Clicker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices