Welcome back! This episode introduces the eight guests for this season and gives you a chance to listen to sneak clips from the episodes.Nick Hall Trumpet to Drag ArtistVicki Hart Vocal Teacher to Therapist and Dementia Care PractitionerLisa Bauer Violinist to Operations Optimization ExpertTim Ball French Horn to Yacht CaptainSonia Baldock Violinist to ICU NurseKaz Krasovskis Cellist to Landscape DesignerLisa Tamagini Vocal Teacher and IG InfluencerMateusz Jagiełło French Horn to Boudoir Photographer IMAGE CREDITLulu & Lime PODCAST TEAMProduction Support and Audio Engineering by Thomas GraydenTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Performed by Jasper Ly  Recorded on 08 November 2024

Paul Bruch-Wiens is a Private Wealth Manager at Quadrant Private Wealth, based in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, where he lives with his spouse, two children and still has a deep passion for the performing arts.QUOTES“Singing in close harmony with my family and church community was a way of life. It was something you just did every Sunday.”“After I finished a business degree, the only thing I could do to have gainful employment based on the training was to be a bookkeeper. But I’d already done that for 3 years as a part time job. It wasn’t interesting to me. So instead I studied for a Master of Music.”“There was no job lined up for you coming out of music school, but I adamantly chose not to be a music teacher.”“I got the job (in a bank) and thought it would solve everything. But it didn’t. It was really difficult to come to terms with making the wholesale change. In my heart of hearts I was still a performer and the reality of the situation had not caught up with me. I just didn’t believe it. I perhaps thought I would go back.”“I have all of these things to pull experience from. People don’t necessarily want advice from people who haven’t felt that themselves”“It’s liberating when you  find yourself, and let go of who you think you should be.”LINKSFind Paul on LinkedINPODCAST TEAMProduction Support from Molly Jenkins Audio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Performed by Jasper LyRECORDEDRecorded on 21 October 2021

A former professional oboe and cor anglais player based in London, Sadah Webster now works as an investigator and intelligence analyst. Investigating whistleblower complaints and misuses of public office.QUOTES“I was halfway through a Bachelor of Music degree when I took a year off to study linguistics and live in Thailand.”“I didn’t know what I was doing, I was petrified all the time and I was burned out.”“Looking back, emotionally, I think the fact that I was advanced as a player quite early on and I got thrown into a lot of stuff which was great for my playing but emotionally I wasn't ready.”“Because I had solely focussed on being an Oboist, I didn’t know anything else.”“I had various attempts at retraining, but a sense of purpose came much later in my emotional journey.”“As a freelancer, you never know why you don’t get booked.”“The context in which we learn perpetuates “there’s something wrong with me” and the same toxic productivity runs through the law school as in music school.” “Assumptions are being made about your work ethic, motivation and ability to use your time. I had been told by various teachers that I was lazy when I couldn't practice more because instead I had to work to earn a living.”“The only tool the teachers have is “well just practice more”.“The work was more stressful than enjoyable, the balance had totally shifted and I was just exhausted.”“The cost benefit analysis of being an oboist doesn’t make sense, but I didn’t know how to make that assessment when I was studying.”LINKSFind Sadan on LinkedINPODCAST TEAMProduction Support from Molly Jenkins Audio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Performed by Jasper LyRECORDEDRecorded on 24 October 2021

Daniel Meyers is a bass player, music administrator, and professional fundraiser who currently manages donor relations and annual giving at the Epilepsy Foundation of Minnesota. Before moving into fundraising, Daniel performed regularly as a substitute with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, and he was a member of the Civic Orchestra of Chicago.QUOTES“I was playing with orchestras that were “the end goal” if you’re searching for a career as an orchestral musician, but I wasn’t finding the connection and focus on the audience and that focus on the audience. That’s what I care about.”“I never heard or rarely heard musicians talk about the experience of the audience. And I felt like the people I was playing with didn’t care that much.”“I don’t think you can expect something that someone does full time, that it can't be a job just some of the time.”“You have this great opportunity and people are congratulating you, your peers are congratulating because you’ve achieved their dream. You feel like you should be on top of the world and you’re not. This is what I was hoping for and it’s really not all that”"It was just a job for a lot of them."LINKSFind Daniel on LinkedINUnsupervised EnsembleAubrey BergauerRuth HarttSt Olaf CollegePODCAST TEAMProduction Support from Molly Jenkins Audio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Performed by Jasper LyRECORDEDRecorded on 08 October 2021

Sarah Denholm was originally a classical pianist who moved into a successful career as a speaking and presentation skills coach, built after suffering from performance anxiety.Sarah’s pathway back to comfort on stage was learning the art of public speaking. She now helps others globally through her Speakers Confluence® confidence and influence coaching and training programs.QUOTESOn performing and imposter syndrome “I found it so stressful, and that’s still in my body.”On being seen “I’ve had to learn how to overcome being looked at.”On self-healing and finding your voice “I was determined to move forwards, I needed safety so much.”On helping clients “When you’re speaking with fluency, you’re not fighting yourself.”On your journey “I miss what I used to do but I don’t regret a moment of it. What I’m doing now is what I’m meant to be doing.”LINKSFind Sarah on her websiteBurnout by Amelia and Emily NagoskiTrauma specialist Bessel Van Der KolkPODCAST TEAMProduction Support from Molly Jenkins Audio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Performed by Jasper LyRECORDEDRecorded on 16 September 2021

ABOUT TIFFANY QUOTES“At the end of first semester, I was looking around thinking about the professionals I had worked with from all different ages and backgrounds. I thought that if I wanted to add something, what might that be? I was interested in arts admin and thought if I understand what managers want then I could craft myself to navigate that sphere.”“ What was eye opening was that backstage at Carnegie Hall looks the same as backstage as anywhere else. Eye opening to see the reality of a thing I had held sacred in my mind.”“Living in Manhatten on $26K meant I was tired of choosing between rent or groceries. So I went to a headhunter and went to a hedge fund. They doubled my salary overnight. I thought “what is this world”.”“What I thought was a means to an end, turned out to be life changing.”“I had a lightbulb moment in a donor meeting, talking about their giving to the institution. I thought if everybody had access to this level of planning, this team of experts behind them then we could literally create a whole new generation of philanthropists and everybody could achieve their goals. What would I need to do that?.”“So much of what I do is healing relationships with couples or individuals and their interactions with money.”LINKSFind Tiffany on LinkedIN or at Virtuoso Advising, Virtuoso Asset Management, FB,  InstagramColbert Artists Management“Atomic Habits” by James ClearPODCAST TEAMProduction Support from Molly Jenkins Audio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Performed by Jasper LyRECORDEDRecorded on 11 October 2021

Michael Lowenstern has spent 15 years as a professional bass clarinetist specializing in avant garde jazz, and 15 years as a professional brand marketer specializing in data-driven creative strategy. Those journeys have two things in common: They are both niche corners of their respective markets, and they are both things that most people couldn't care less about. He's currently a Principal Creative Director for Amazon.QUOTES“After music school when I turned up in NY, I stared at the phone. It took about 7 years to establish myself and I was doing the work I always wanted with Steve Reich, John Zorn and Peter Sekin. But I wasn’t making much.“I always had ‘double majoring’ in life, it started as a temp and then worked in advertising.”“I was driving on the New Jersey turnpike at midnight, having an existential conversation. I just played Beethoven for the millionth time, I hadn’t seen my kid in 3 days because I also have a day job with night gigs. Would I rather play Beethoven and fulfil that destiny for the rest of  my life or would I rather watch my kid grow up.” (2005)“Now I’m able to feel fulfilled as a musician and have a second job”“I landed in a great spot by dumb luck”“The critical thinking part is not about being a clarinet player (singer, pianist, composer) it’s about being a musical contributor. If you're not contributing, you're taking. And if you're not empathetic, you don't know how to give. And if you don't do that, then you're not part of the solution that's pushing music forward.”“if you’re successful at more than one thing, there’s precedent for that. Not to compare myself, but there are a lot of people in history who’ve been good at more than one thing.”LINKSFind Mike on the Earspasm website or on Youtube “How to deal with not doing music full time?” on EarspasmPODCAST TEAMProduction Support from Molly Jenkins Audio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Performed by Jasper LyRECORDEDRecorded on 03 September 2021

Angel Lezak is a patent prosecutor with 15 years of prosecution experience who has been able to successfully leverage the knowledge and experience she gained at the USPTO to develop and execute creative, effective strategies for prosecuting both new and problematic patent applications to issuance.As part of her practice, Angel develops and manages patent portfolios for new and existing clients. Additionally, Angel analyzes existing patent families to determine the value and strength of pending and acquired claim sets. Angel's methods expedite prosecution and minimize prosecution history.QUOTES“I had a parent who was concerned about how music would translate into income but I never seemed to have that worry.”“My choice to go to law school had a lot to do with experiences I had. As a graduate composer from Eastman, I was writing music for a new Jim Henson production. Jim passed away and it was a struggle to get the scores back. I thought “Wow that’s pretty powerful. I can help others with this.”“My interest in law, honesty, fairness, truth and integrity came from my grandmother. She believed in me.”“In engineering school, the majority are introverted types who don’t particularly care for change. Also my dad had a PhD in math, anytime something changed it threw him off and made him go sideways. A lot of the people I work with are the same way but in engineering school I found myself convincing others that the world will not fall apart if they make changes because the change makes sense.”“Music has given me the courage to do things that others might not be comfortable with but I've always known worked. Also kindness, I always try to help others. Music has made me like that.“I love making my clients look good, I love getting them tonnes of patents. They go to their board of directors and look amazing, it’s like I wrote you the perfect piece for you to perform and get applause.”LINKSFind Angel on LinkedINInn of Court “IP Was” parodyPODCAST TEAMProduction Support from Molly Jenkins Audio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Performed by Jasper LyRECORDEDRecorded on 03 September 2021

Jackson Harnwell is a former singer and conductor, having studied at the Melbourne Conservatorium of Music and worked with artists including Anthony Warlow, David Hobson, Helena Dix, Teddy Tahu Rhodes and Yvonne Kenny. Today, Jackson oversees the clinical training of medical and health discipline students at the University of Melbourne, following a 10-year career in higher education.QUOTES“Church choir was an amazing opportunity that connected with me. To be able to create on my own, bond with others, sing in a group and share the emotion.”“I have memories of my choir master having to settle me down because the church choir went to stand, they're all very stoic and grim faced as they sing perfectly constructed vowels and I wanted to dance. I wanted to move around and express that emotion that was inside me.”“I started to have some self doubt, maybe there’s more work that I need to do that I didn’t understand I needed to do.”“Going into university, my perspective was that I was very good. That changed quickly when I became part of a cohort of people that, in my mind, singing came easier to.”“No matter how hard I worked, how much I did, I couldn’t seem to overcome some of these hurdles.”“People really identified that one of my skills was that I could jump into unknown territory and be really crystal clear on the outcome that I wanted to achieve.”“It’s probably only in the last three or four years, I've been able to recognize and accept just how much my creative self influences the work that I do, and is valuable to the organization and that it's not something that should be kept separate.”“I realised if I was going to make a living from performing, I knew how much work that would be. But what did “making it” look like? It means taking gigs that you don’t want because you need to pay the bills and you don’t get to choose what performance opportunities come up. That wasn’t for me. The idea of this thing that I loved  so much becoming a chore was terrifying.”“The pandemic has really brought to the fore my performing background. I’ve identified that I thrive in a crisis, because I'm so used to not knowing what's around the corner, not knowing what might happen on stage.”“The saddest thing that I have seen, with some incredibly talented, passionate musicians and performers, is that they leave it too late and lose the love of it. Eventually they're forced into a career transition and they cannot bring themselves to engage with their creative self anymore and that is an awful thing.”LINKSFind Jackson on LinkedIN“Think Again” by Adam GrantOpera Scholars AustraliaPODCAST TEAMProduction Support from Molly Jenkins Audio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Performed by Jasper LyRECORDEDRecorded on 27 August 2021

Ian Anderson Gray is the founder of the Confident Live Marketing Academy and is host of the Confident Live Marketing Podcast. He helps entrepreneurs to level up their impact, authority and profits by using live video confidently. As well as being a geek, husband, and dad to two kids, Ian is also a professional singer and lives near Manchester in the UK.QUOTES“I'd get very bored very easily I was doing the same thing all the time. And it was the same thing with music, I needed to do other things.”“Writing a blog changed my life. And I had this bit of an identity crisis, because I wasn't sure “was I a musician or was I something else?” I wasn't really quite sure.”“I felt really guilty because I didn't really want to go into opera. I felt like I was somehow a second class singer, because I didn't want to do that. ““I  had a real issue with my self-esteem and with depression which I know a lot of people do. I had to go through a massive mindset shift, which has taken a long time.”“In my experience of those of top name music schools, they are not an emotionally safe place to be if you're already at risk. If you are different or you're trying to figure it out, it’s just not safe to be there.“As musicians, our job is to translate and transfer emotion to the audience. But we're never taught how to have those emotions safely and what to do with them if they're overwhelming to you.““I've realized suddenly that all of that training that I did as a musician wasn't a waste, and it was all coming together. And it was just a wonderful moment. And so it was at that point where I realized that actually Yes, live video is what I want to do. I want to teach people to do that.”“My identity as a musician doesn't have to be connected to a job.”“There are so many musicians in the creative world. When I went to Social Media Marketing World, 30 40% of the people there are musicians.”LINKSFind Ian on his website, Youtube, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIN or his Podcast Confident Live Marketing Burnout by Amelia & Emily NagowskiJunior RNCMHalle Children’s ChoirRabbi Daniel Lapin “Thou Shall Prosper”Stephen Pressfield “The War Of Art”Gay Hendricks “The Big Leap”Social Media Marketing WorldPODCAST TEAMProduction Support from Molly Jenkins Audio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Performed by Jasper LyRECORDEDRecorded on 16 August 2021

Joshua Dema is Melbourne based Cellist and Digital Designer. By day he is a Digital Accessibility Consultant for a company called Intopia. By night he is a Cellist who can be heard playing music from Pachelbel to Piatti to Panic at the Disco and everything in between.QUOTES“I  had this idea in mind of finding a backup career, but it needed to be something I was passionate about.”“The more auditions I took, the more I kept failing them. I enjoying it less and less… I was so locked into this mindset of if I didn’t achieve this goal (orchestral job) I was failing everybody.”“I started noticing the performances I liked were the ones where I was making decisions about the process.”“I came across a thing called UX design. It involves empathy for users, practicality of the product and usability of design. That really fit my mentality.”“Everyone I talked to from a non-music background was fascinated by trained musicians. It’s a really good talking point in job interviews.”“I’ve come to realise that creativity is everywhere. Just because there’s not a performance doesn’t mean there’s not creativity”“The outcome (of a job application) is not telling me how good I am at what I do.”“When I do pick up my cello, it’s because I want to play it, not because I have to practice.”“The more I removed money from music, the more I enjoyed it.”LINKSFind Joshua on his website, Youtube channel or JUO Facebook pageZoe Knighton and Flinders QuartetMaking Music Work researchIMAGE CREDITJacinta KeefePODCAST TEAMProduction Support from Molly Jenkins Audio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Performed by Jasper LyRECORDEDRecorded on 23 August 2021

Kate studied music at Manchester University. Whilst at uni she took a part-time job at The Bridgewater Hall, a concert hall in Manchester. There, she fell in love with ticketing, data and technology and is now Strategy Director at Supercool, a digital design agency working in the cultural sector.QUOTESI have an overview of a lot of different aspects of the business which is what I find really interesting. I see that big picture, where the problems are and join dots. I worked at a concert hall in Manchester, it was really interesting to see what audiences were really interested in, what they were passionate about going to.It was always really exciting to have my pieces performed. But the only people that were really in the room were the friends that I dragged along and other composers. So when you study classical music, there is this sense that there is high art, there's proper music. And then you have the less good music and I started to question that a bit.After working in ticketing, I geeked out about the technology and ended up at a tech company called Spectrix that build ticketing platform for the art sector. And I really loved it there. When I got to university it was a very different environment, there was a lot of pressure. Having grown up in North Wales, there were loads of orchestras. I took part in the small local orchestra, then the regional orchestra and then the National Youth Orchestra of Wales. And I played the double bass and sometimes in those situations, people are just happy for you to turn up because there aren't many double Bassists so they were just happy that I had an instrument and could turn up and play some of the notes.  But at university, there was a different level of pressure that was on me. I've never loved practicing on my own. When I was at university, that's one of the things that made me realize I'm probably never going to be cut out to be an actual full time professional musician, because spending many hours sat in a room on my own all day is not my idea of fun. I really like being around people. The thing I loved about composing was that you could come up with an idea for something and you could create it from scratch yourself. And I still like doing that, and that relates to the bigger picture problem solving.  You have an idea of what you want to convey and what is the best way to do that. I definitely built up my tech savviness whilst I was at uni, doing electro acoustic and recording. That definitely helped because I was using computers and complex programs at the time. I don't think anybody who is learning music when they're young, and goes to study a music degree says “actually what I want is to work in ticketing”. But it's a fascinating sector.In my current role, probably the most exciting bit is when you meet an organization for the first time and you stop and think about what their new website is going to be. Creating a website is like composing, it’s like when you have that really awkward rehearsal with the musicians where they tell you all the things you've written that aren't possible on their instrument because you read it's possible somewhere. They’re not superhumans.I think one of the biggest things is listening. I think that I noticed this when I was doing improvisation. Really good improvisers know that they don't have to make sound all the time, it's okay just to listen. I think those improvisation skills have just been incredibly valuable going forward, especially when dealing with other people in workshop situations and discovery situations, or meetings in general. With people being able to realize that it's okay to just listen, and not always having to contribute something. There's lots of other things as well, things like being able to see patterns and see what's going on in a bigger picture. I was thinking recently about how when you're learning a piece for the first time, you're constantly shifting between the kind of very small micro moments and the bigger picture of the piece that you're learning.I might spend an hour of my morning testing one tiny little feature on a website. Understanding how that feature applies to the larger customer journey, how it will improve the end customer and the client in terms of how they communicate with their customers, makes that one hour worthwhile. Even if I'm just frustratingly changing a button for one hour.Being able to do things like public speaking, being able to walk into a room full of strangers, being able to go to a conference and walk up to somebody and have a chat. That is incredibly hard for a lot of people. Whereas I was sent off to orchestra rehearsals, and it was a whole different social network.Community music is a great place to learn it's, a great place to experiment, to learn in a way that you might not have the freedom to do in an organization where there's a little bit more scrutiny on what you post on Twitter and things like that.LINKSFind Kate on LinkedIN and TwitterSpektrixBridgewater HallSupercool DesignThe Noise UpstairsPODCAST TEAMProduction Support from Molly Jenkins Audio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Performed by Jasper LyRECORDEDRecorded on 15 August 2021

A former opera singer and self-taught live illustrator, Sarah Nisbett loves to draw the people, places and things she encounters “on the way.” Her Drawn On The Way project is helping people find the extraordinary in the everyday and to see themselves and others as works of art. Read the transcript.QUOTES“I learned how to draw on the New York subway. It was a strange kind of art school.”“I was curious about people. Who is this person? And that was an experience I liked.”“I had a realisation “what if there was no more work or gigs?” I realised that being successful meant travelling a lot and there’s a toll on your mental health. I didn’t know if that was my future.”“The more successful I was in opera, the high wire got thinner and taller and I thought I don’t know if this (opera) is more important than everything else in life.”“I was always interested in advertising, in the words, pictures and storytelling. I realised I do that as a performer.”“What are the things in myself I would like to get paid for?”“Today I am “playing” the role of competent office worker.”“Your creativity and music is always a part of you, you just need to find a way to let it out.”“Drawing in stolen moments was my oasis.”“I started sharing my work online, to tell a story and to help people have a beautiful experience.”LINKSFind Sarah on her website, Instagram, LinkedIN and FacebookSarah's new book "Drawn On The Way" available nowIMAGE CREDITEian KantorPODCAST TEAMProduction Support from Molly Jenkins Audio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Performed by Jasper LyRECORDEDRecorded on 16 August 2021

Ingrid Martin is a highly sought after conductor and music educator. Ingrid trained in Medicine at Monash University and worked as an emergency physician while maintaining a busy musical life as a Conductor, Horn Player and Violinist. A decision to further her conducting training meant relocating to the University of Minnesota where she completed a postgraduate degree with mentor, Craig Kirchhoff.QUOTES“Being an empathetic person is what makes a successful doctor and what also makes a successful conductor.”“ I realised that actually I’ve done this before, and I have a lot of skills in this area already which only happened because I’d done medicine. If I’d studied music, I wouldn’t have had to make all those opportunities.”“Whatever you do when you finish school, in fact whatever you do at all doesn’t actually define you.”LINKSFind Ingrid on her website, LinkedIN, or her conductor development platform Conducting ArtistryPODCAST TEAMProduction Penny ManwaringAudio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Composed by Natasha PearsonTheme Music Performed by Alison McIntosh-Deszcz (soprano), Natasha Lin (piano), and Susan Eldridge (horn). Theme Music Recorded Lady Marigold Southey Performance Studio, 3MBS Fine Music in Melbourne in October 2016. With thanks to recording engineer Cheryl Scott.FIRST BROADCAST11 January 2017

Joel Carnegie is an award winning broadcaster, documentary maker, performer and founder of the international media production house The Space Company. Joel pursued a Performance Degree on Horn from the University of Melbourne and Die Universität für Musik und darstellende Austria, and post graduate study in Communications and Media at RMIT before building his unique career as an entrepreneur, storyteller, performer and musician.QUOTES“There was one track for me, that was finishing Year 12, heading off to the Conservatorium and sailing off into the sunset to become an orchestral musician. That was really what I thought life was going to be like.”“Music needs to speak something of today or needs to connect with someone about something of today. Great music does that and music that doesn’t, perhaps shouldn’t be played.”“There is life beyond music, there is life beyond study and there is life beyond Mozart.”LINKSFind Joel on his website or LinkedIN, PODCAST TEAMProduction Penny ManwaringAudio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Composed by Natasha PearsonTheme Music Performed by Alison McIntosh-Deszcz (soprano), Natasha Lin (piano), and Susan Eldridge (horn). Theme Music Recorded Lady Marigold Southey Performance Studio, 3MBS Fine Music in Melbourne in October 2016. With thanks to recording engineer Cheryl Scott.FIRST BROADCAST05 January 2017

Jennika Anthony-Shaw is a Barrister who held the position of Project Manager and Commercial Group Proceedings Coordinator for the Supreme Court of Victoria. Jennika has performance degrees from McGill University and the Manhattan School of Music and built a successful freelance career as a global trotting Cellist before embarking upon the path that would lead her to the lawQUOTES“I started out in New York where everyone is really good. There’s 3 or 4 top music schools in the city and you do have to compete for work or create your own work.”“I didn’t want to let myself down. I felt there was a lot of expectation to keep succeeding, keep playing music and to somehow manage to progress my career beyond where it was.”As musicians we like to think we can work anywhere, it is odd to think sometimes you’re prevented from doing that.”LINKSFind Jennika on LinkedINPODCAST TEAMProduction Penny ManwaringAudio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Composed by Natasha PearsonTheme Music Performed by Alison McIntosh-Deszcz (soprano), Natasha Lin (piano), and Susan Eldridge (horn). Theme Music Recorded Lady Marigold Southey Performance Studio, 3MBS Fine Music in Melbourne in October 2016. With thanks to recording engineer Cheryl Scott.FIRST BROADCAST27 December 2016

Katherine Norman is the Senior Account Manager, Presenter Services at Arts Centre Melbourne and is responsible for the logistics of over 3,000 events across their 6 venues each year. Katherine pursued degrees in Biochemistry and Music before embarking on a career in venue management which saw her work as Usher Manager at the Royal Opera House in Convent Garden before returning to Melbourne.QUOTES“My main and first degree was a Bachelor of Science majoring in Biochemistry. I’d resisted the temptation to study music from about the age of 15. When I was about 20 I just had to bow to it.”“I’ve been fortunate to work with virtually every major performing arts company, certainly that's been through Melbourne and across Australiawhich is an amazing opportunity.”“My music degree, and my science degree, but particularly my music degree has been such an amazing foundation in being willing to try new things.”LINKSFind Katherine on LinkedINConsort of MelbournePODCAST TEAMProduction Penny ManwaringAudio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Composed by Natasha PearsonTheme Music Performed by Alison McIntosh-Deszcz (soprano), Natasha Lin (piano), and Susan Eldridge (horn). Theme Music Recorded Lady Marigold Southey Performance Studio, 3MBS Fine Music in Melbourne in October 2016. With thanks to recording engineer Cheryl Scott.FIRST BROADCAST20 December 2016

Dave Melgaard leads a team of testing experts at Idea Science to find optimum solutions for clients and strengthen testing capabilities. Before that, he studied Trumpet at the VCA, Melbourne University and the Royal College of Music in London. He held the position of Trumpet Master with the Slovenian National Opera and Ballet Orchestra before returning to Australia to build a new career in business.QUOTES“So many of the skills you learn in music are so useful in business.” “In sales, you can sell a big job or something important and this feeds 4 or 5 or 30 people for the next year. I find meaning in that. It’s not just about me playing the trumpet.”“Now I work in IT and fundamentally, running a band isn’t that dissimilar from running an IT shop.”“As much as you love Puccini, once you’ve played it 400 times it becomes a bit tedious.”LINKSFind Dave on LinkedINIdea Science“A software testing symphony” articlePODCAST TEAMProduction Penny ManwaringAudio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Composed by Natasha PearsonTheme Music Performed by Alison McIntosh-Deszcz (soprano), Natasha Lin (piano), and Susan Eldridge (horn). Theme Music Recorded Lady Marigold Southey Performance Studio, 3MBS Fine Music in Melbourne in October 2016. With thanks to recording engineer Cheryl Scott.FIRST BROADCAST16 December 2016

Tony Prochazka pursued a non-conformist training in both medicine and music. He interrupted his medical career to study Jazz Guitar at the VCA, having played Cello with the Australian Youth Orchestra during his schooling. He studied Classical Cello in Germany and London before building a successful career in cosmetic surgery.QUOTES“By the end of it I was just sold on music and that was really my awakening I guess at just how fantastic it could be.”“I just remember we had some conversations, my parents and I. I said I would like to be a musician, they said it’s a hard life there’s no guarantees.” “The idea of the arc of a musical phrase is very similar to the idea of the construction of the face, or the balance of the face.”LINKSFind Tony on LinkedIN, Instagram, Corpus MedicorumPODCAST TEAMProduction Penny ManwaringAudio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Composed by Natasha PearsonTheme Music Performed by Alison McIntosh-Deszcz (soprano), Natasha Lin (piano), and Susan Eldridge (horn). Theme Music Recorded Lady Marigold Southey Performance Studio, 3MBS Fine Music in Melbourne in October 2016. With thanks to recording engineer Cheryl Scott.FIRST BROADCAST06 December 2016

Tony Gray lives and works in remote Numbulwar, where he is Managing Director and Pilot at AiRemote. Tony designs and delivers development programs in Arnhem Land and Indonesia. Prior to his life as a social entrepreneur, Tony was a professional musician in Melbourne and holds a Bachelor of Music (Improvisation) on Double Bass from the VCA.QUOTESThis relates back to music as well, you have to do anything you can to keep you going so you can focus on the one thing and that’s developing jobs and employment opportunities in remote communities.”“I’ve got a degree in improvisation. I’ve got a degree in making things up. In the end, that’s basically life in business. You just make stuff up all the time so you can get enough revenue to keep going.”“It was just an impossible mission, but I took it on and went non-stop sleeping in my car along the way and travelling at night and really early mornings just to get it done.”LINKSFind Tony on LinkedINBapa Gajah Record LabelPODCAST TEAMProduction Penny ManwaringAudio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Composed by Natasha PearsonTheme Music Performed by Alison McIntosh-Deszcz (soprano), Natasha Lin (piano), and Susan Eldridge (horn). Theme Music Recorded Lady Marigold Southey Performance Studio, 3MBS Fine Music in Melbourne in October 2016. With thanks to recording engineer Cheryl Scott.FIRST BROADCAST30 November 2016

As former CEO of the Grattan Institute, John Daley is one of Australia’s leading public policy thinkers. John graduated from the University of Oxford in 1999 with a DPhil in public law after completing an LLB (Hons) and a BSc from the University of Melbourne in 1990. He has 20 years’ experience spanning policy, academic, government and corporate roles.QUOTES“It teaches you successful compromise, in which everyone gets most of what they want. The whole is indeed greater than the sum of the parts. But everyone probably hasn’t got everything they wanted.” “It’s certainly training for leadership and certainly for policy and politics.”“Obviously it’s something I listen to all the time, it’s not just everyday but it’s most of the time. When you’ve spent that much of your life playing and listening to music it’s never not there.”LINKSFind John on LinkedINGrattan InsitutePODCAST TEAMProduction Penny ManwaringAudio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Composed by Natasha PearsonTheme Music Performed by Alison McIntosh-Deszcz (soprano), Natasha Lin (piano), and Susan Eldridge (horn). Theme Music Recorded Lady Marigold Southey Performance Studio, 3MBS Fine Music in Melbourne in October 2016. With thanks to recording engineer Cheryl Scott.FIRST BROADCAST22 November 2016

After a career as principal horn player with the Australian Opera and Ballet Orchestra and guest principal with many other orchestras in Australia and overseas, Geoff Collinson found his true calling as a teacher and headed up the brass department at The University of Melbourne. 10 years ago, the digital world provided opportunities to solve problems of geographical isolation in music education and Geoff took the plunge away from a tenured position. People assumed I had given up on creativity but Geoff had never been more creative than through solving business problems. What he learned by being a musician about conquering his fears on the concert stage, the preparation required, and how focusing on his passion for knowledge quells negative thought has taken him to this point today. The creative world and the business world intersect in so many ways and he find myself in a unique position to help others on their journey.QUOTES“I used to suffer so intensely with nerves that I was advised to actually give up the Horn. I couldn’t stand in front of anybody and play without completely falling apart.”“It was basically like starting an instrument from scratch again. So that learning and all the tools I’ve got have given me the persistence to go through all those times where you wake up at 3.30am in the morning worrying about how I’ll feed the family.”“Some of this (business) is far more creative than what I was able to do as a musician, because I never walked over that line of improvising.”LINKSFind Geoff on LinkedINAeyonsPODCAST TEAMProduction Penny ManwaringAudio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Composed by Natasha PearsonTheme Music Performed by Alison McIntosh-Deszcz (soprano), Natasha Lin (piano), and Susan Eldridge (horn). Theme Music Recorded Lady Marigold Southey Performance Studio, 3MBS Fine Music in Melbourne in October 2016. With thanks to recording engineer Cheryl Scott.FIRST BROADCAST15 November 2016

Kylie Weston-Scheuber is a Melbourne-based barrister specialising in commercial and administrative law. Through her previous employment, she has extensive experience as an advocate, including in contested hearings, trials, sentences and appeals. She has a PhD in law from the Australian National University. Kylie is available to accept briefs in Victoria and other jurisdictions. She is a member of Greens List. QUOTES“People think of music as being a creative pursuit, and it is. But it also has, I think, a very big logic and problem solving component. And that’s what law ultimately is about.”“It never ceases to amaze me the number of lawyers I meet who have high level music performance skills.”“One of the key ideas behind it (Bottled Snail) is to improve mental wellbeing in the legal profession. As many people know, the creative arts are a great way of doing that.”LINKSFind Kylie on LinkedIN and Greens ListBottled Snail ProductionsPODCAST TEAMProduction Penny ManwaringAudio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Composed by Natasha PearsonTheme Music Performed by Alison McIntosh-Deszcz (soprano), Natasha Lin (piano), and Susan Eldridge (horn). Theme Music Recorded Lady Marigold Southey Performance Studio, 3MBS Fine Music in Melbourne in October 2016. With thanks to recording engineer Cheryl Scott.FIRST BROADCAST08 November 2016

After 20 years in the music business, Robert Simonds resigned as principal second violinist of the Rochester Philharmonic Orchestra in June 2021. He is now a MC/MPA candidate at the Harvard Kennedy School of Government and is seeking to merge his performing arts experience with public service.QUOTES“I wanted to leave the stage on my own terms.”“Add as much value as possible onstage and offstage.”“All large institutions should serve a public function.”“Never stop looking for people to help you.”“At the Rochester Philharmonic I felt very useful because I could add more than just playing the right notes at the right time.”“We confuse our capacity to learn as progress.”“I got lucky there was a person wanting to take me under their wing.”“The message I absorbed at music school was “if you can’t win it, then don’t try it.’”“I am predisposed to get along with people, I’m interested in people.”“I never felt as much interest in having a performing artist on the team as I did at Harvard Kennedy School.”“If you’re not doing it already, and have the means to, go volunteer.”LINKSRobert SimondsHarvard Kennedy School of GovernmentRochester PhilharmonicTeddy AbramsLouisville OrchestraAlex LaingPhoenix SymphonyDonna ParkesPODCAST TEAMProduction Support from Molly Jenkins Audio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Performed by Jasper LyRECORDEDRecorded on 02 August 2021

After a decade and a half as a London-based freelance cellist, Patrick Tapio Johnson has retrained and has just commenced his first role as a software engineer with General Assembly. He hopes this will enable him to provide real, meaningful help to people, while solving some cool problems in the process.QUOTES“After the pandemic, things changed overnight. The pandemic wasn’t the catalyst but it was a nudge.”“Amongst musicians, many had their heads in the sand and were reluctant to take advantage of it (the pandemic).”“I was performing for a lot of people, and searching for a sense of purpose and relevance. In a lot of cases, musicians were not considering how to monetise their skills.”“There were reactions to what was going on but few that seemed constructive.”“Writing code was making me feel more creative than anything I had done in years.”“In tech, there’s a willingness to take people on based on what you think they’re capable of.”“When I had a son, it was a moment in life that I started thinking beyond what the next gig would be. I wondered how I could run both careers in parallel.”LINKSPatrick Tapio JohnsonMusical OrbitIMAGE CREDITKaupo KikkasPODCAST TEAMProduction Support from Molly Jenkins Audio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Performed by Jasper LyRECORDEDRecorded on 26 July 2021

Andrew Schwartz holds a degree from the University of Hartford and pursued a Masters from The Manhattan School of Music in Tuba Performance. He received an MBA from Georgia State University and now works in marketing insights for Central Garden & Pet. He lives in Decatur, GA with his wife and daughter.QUOTES“I could see orchestras filing for bankruptcy, and it was terrifying. I was under the impression that  if you make it, you make it. But if the Philadelphia Orchestra is filing for bankruptcy then no one is safe.”“This is the thing I want to do (orchestra concerts), but if I’m asleep at concerts then what are we doing?”“I was barely living above the poverty line in NYC.”“I had no idea what the real world was like.”“If I got an MBA, that would give me two years to figure it all out.”“I don’t know if I’ve gotten over that my identity is what I do.”“My biggest fear was winning a job, the orchestra was bankrupt, I would have to move or there were no other jobs.”“In the real world you need to be a whole person.”“One big thing I took from music is storytelling.”LINKSAndrew SchwartzInternational Tuba Euphonium Association (ITEA)James Clear ‘Atomic Habits’PODCAST TEAMProduction Support from Molly JenkinsAudio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Performed by Jasper LyRECORDEDRecorded on 05 July 2021

Lisa Kobialka has been at the forefront of some of the most challenging trials in different venues across the country and handled more than 200 litigations. She counsels and represents both plaintiffs and defendants in complex intellectual property litigation, including trials and evidentiary hearings in numerous jurisdictions across the United States involving claims for patent infringement, trade secret misappropriation, unfair competition and trademark infringement. Lisa represents clients in a variety of technology-related industries, with a particular emphasis on the energy, computer science and pharmaceutical sectors.QUOTES“My brother and I had no option, it (music) was a life skill as far as we were concerned. We had music from 5am to 2am constantly, that’s all we knew and did.”“I realised they (orchestras) were starting to go bankrupt, I was talking to other musicians and asked ‘what are you going to do’ and they said ‘what else CAN I do I can’t do anything else' and I never felt that way.”“Going to law school was very difficult, it wasn’t an easy transition. I was lucky that I was open minded.”“How am I going to make the facts sing in the most persuasive way.”“How I hear is very different to most people, I’m a very literal person. I hear things very specifically, as a result I probably articulate things very specifically as well.”"Music teachers are very direct and blunt, that is now necessarily how people communicate with each other. I had to learn better about how people communicate outside the music world."“Chamber music is an intense working environment, the same as working with a trial team for a jury. We perfect the work to a point where people could understand where we could go with it.”LINKSLisa KobialkaPODCAST TEAMProduction Support from Molly Jenkins Audio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Performed by Jasper LyRECORDEDRecorded on 16 July 2021

Ingrid Martin transforms lives through music.  Her life-long mission: to make classical music relevant, interesting and engaging for everyone.  Insatiably curious, Ingrid constantly asks "Who is it for? Why are we doing this? How could it be better?" Her answer usually involves challenging norms and ditching long-held traditions to create meaningful experiences for audiences. QUOTES“Probably more people have been to space than have seen me dance. Isn’t that strange because my job as a conductor is to embody the music.” “I realised that many musicians are not connected to the way that emotions live within their body. Maybe the reason I  feel safe conducting but not dancing, is because I can hide behind technique and a set of codified moments. But that’s not really about expression.”“Being serious is seen as being professional, but where is the embodiment of lots of other emotions like silliness.”“How can we embrace a much wider idea of what professional musicians are. As soon as you said the word “serious” I thought about all the things I’ve thought of doing in my life that I have told myself not to do because that would not look good or serious as a conductor.”“Coming from a community music background, playing free concerts in a park to anybody that wanted to come meant there was no “cathedral of privilege” of the concert hall. None of the signalling of how to behave existed, people would just clap and shout out if they were having a good time. All of the conventions about how audiences “should’ behave weren’t there in the music I made growing up.”LINKSIngrid MartinConducting ArtistryNetflix Amazing Interiors “Hidden Cottage, Technicolor House, Backyard Coaster”SOUND CONNECTIONS episode with Anna SchaumBURNOUT: The Secret To Unlocking The Stress CycleDr Anna Bull “Class, Control and Classical Music”Coregulation from WikipediaPODCAST TEAMProduction Support from Molly JenkinsAudio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Performed by Jasper LyRECORDEDRecorded on 14 September, 2021.

John Parr-Culver is a Product Manager at Oracle with a background as a freelance musician and clarinet teacher. John is currently based in Austin, Texas and has performance degrees from the Eastman School of Music and Carnegie Mellon University.Image Credit Cheyenne ParrQUOTES“I got advice on what kinds of adjacent interests to music might be a good way to send my career path down.”“I had spent 15 years thinking I was going to be a musician, so I had a bit of an identity crisis.”“I knew some musicians who were working at an Apple store, they encouraged me to apply. It was great to work with people who had done the thing that I wanted to do next.”“A challenge I had to overcome, as a musician transitioning out of music is that I had this idea that as long as I worked really hard and became best at what I do that I would become successful. That had nothing to do with appreciating the unique talents and skills that others brought into the work that they did.”“In that inside sales role, I cared a lot about understanding more deeply the problems customers faced and the kinds of solutions we offered to them.”“Problem evaluation and translating those needs into technical requirements relates to my musical experience, to score analysis and being able to extract what musical interpretive decisions should be made.”“Dealing with failure. On a small scale, like not winning an audition or something like the fact that I didn’t pursue a career as a clarinetist, failure is an important thing to experience. Failure allows us to understand what went wrong, why it went wrong and take those lessons and apply them to future experiences.  It’s how we deal with failures that shape us in the journeys that we take in our lives.”“For musicians who have determined what direction they want to take, it’s never been easier to skill up in different areas on Udemy or LinkedIN.”“For people who have lived the practice room lifestyle, there’s incredible value in all the diverse skills and experiences that others bring to the table. It’s so important to appreciate that as early as possible.”LINKSJohn CulverUdemyLinkedIn LearningIMAGE CREDITCheyenne ParrPODCAST TEAMProduction Support from Molly Jenkins Audio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Performed by Jasper LyRECORDEDRecorded on 10 May 2021

Dr Ralph Bathurst is a musician who performs orchestral music (viola) and light jazz (piano). This background in music making informs his primary interests which focus on how organisations can become more humane places where people can discover a sense of freedom and creativity. His work life experiences in management and leadership within arts and social organisations translate directly into his teaching and research practice. Primarily his emphasis is on the arts, particularly music and the visual arts, and how they encourage collaborative leadership approaches and organisational development.QUOTES“I have always been a performer, it’s always come back to performance.”“The rigours of performing shuts down my appreciation of the music. I’m most alive with music when I’m not having to play it.”“I had met the two ambitions (conductor and minister), so what could I do next?”“I link the practice of music making to the study of managing and leading.”LINKSRalph BathurstJacques Loussier “The Best of Play Bach”  YouTubePODCAST TEAMProduction Support from Molly JenkinsAudio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Performed by Jasper LyRECORDEDRecorded on 15 June 2021

Anna Schaum is a professional violist and licensed counselor who works at the intersections of psychology, neurobiology, social and ecological change, in both clinical and corporate settings.She is Director of Ecosocial Development for an international photography business, and the founder of The Center for Sound Relationships, a resiliency studio in Portland Oregon. QUOTES“I think of myself as an instrument when I’m working with people.”“Sometimes I’m like a tuning fork, other times I’m listening to the other voices in the room and helping them to coordinate.”“I realised I needed to do more than play music, something had been broken up in my accident.”“I started doing volunteer work, looking for how I could use the ability to listen and connect with people without the instrument.”“We have an opportunity and responsibility to find ways to ease up on that individualism, work collectively and lift up voices that are precious.” “In order to do that, we need to get out of our ego’s path.”“Egos are to support a creative mind, not run the show.”“We can’t make change only in our heads, as musicians if we just sat and thought about the music there would be no sound. It has to come through the body.”“The orchestra told me I would need to choose between my interest in psychology, and my interest in remaining employed (in so many words).”“My body has always been part of it. My classical training, especially when it came to taking auditions and being evaluated for it, realising this is how I’m going to make a living and survive, that’s when I cut off from my body.”“I’d never been somebody who enjoyed going to orchestra concerts, I’d rather be doing it.”LINKSThe Centre for Sound RelationshipsCelebrating Anna’s Teacher and Mentor, Manuel DiazTune UP!: A Psychodramatic Mindfulness-in-Action Practice from The Journal of Pyschodrama, Sociemetry and Group PsychotherapyWhat is PsychodramaPat Ogden, PsychotherapistResmaa Menakem ‘Notice the Rage; Notice the Silence’ from the On Being Podcast with Krista TippettOkaidjaPODCAST TEAMProduction Support from Molly Jenkins Audio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Performed by Jasper LyRECORDEDRecorded on 17 May 2021

Anna McDougall is a full-stack developer with a passion for JavaScript. She is known as "that dev who used to be an opera singer".  In addition to her upcoming position as Junior Software Engineer at Novatec Consulting GmbH, Anna is also a tech blogger, YouTube creator, and public speaker.QUOTES“I had to go into every situation looking for, and wanting to find the gaps in my knowledge. And the things I'm bad at .The only way I'm going to get better is to find out what those are and work on those consistently over time. That’s a lesson I learned from opera.”“It can often be a strength to be the odd one out.”“I was loving the day to day work (of opera) but I started thinking more long term.”I know there’s a logical, problem solving part of my brain I’m not using every day.”“I wanted more than to be more than one piece in the machine.”“Working a desk job is not nearly as fun but long term, I feel like I’m moving and that’s what’s important.”“Imposter syndrome is something that tech and music have in common.”LINKSAnna McDougall website, YouTube, TwitterTED Talk Developing a Growth Mindset with Carol DweckLean StartupPODCAST TEAMProduction Support from Molly Jenkins Audio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Performed by Jasper LyRECORDEDRecorded on 07 June 2021

 Ingrid Martin transforms lives through music.  Her life-long mission: to make classical music relevant, interesting and engaging for everyone.  Insatiably curious, Ingrid constantly asks "Who is it for? Why are we doing this? How could it be better?" Her answer usually involves challenging norms and ditching long-held traditions to create meaningful experiences for audiences. QUOTES“I’m seeking other people who’ve had a similar experience to me, they’ve left classical music because it wasn’t serving them well.”"I felt so alone when I left classical music. I felt so ashamed. I grieved for a decade and a half, so I’m seeking to find colleagues who've had a similar experience to share what that was like.""I felt like I was going to let other people down, and their (the musician’s) need was never in the conversation. It was all about the expectation and investment from others, not the dream of the musician for themselves.""A damaging attitude of “you’re really talented, to not do something with that talent is wasteful.” That is really problematic as an expectation of other people.""What I’ve come to learn about myself from doing this podcast is that I’m angry and hurt and furious at higher education. And that’s coming from my experience, but that’s not everywhere. So how do I grapple with that, I didn’t have a good time. But lots of other people do have a good time.""The biggest challenge is that I don’t want to stay feeling shameful, feeling like I’ve failed and I have no value. That’s how I feel when I think about my learning experiences as a musician.""Trying to be truthful. I’ve been trying to do that this year. The LinkedIN profile and the website all look professional, but it’s a completely different story to how I feel about myself and the story I tell myself about my worth. I’m trying to close that gap a little bit. "LINKSIngrid MartinConducting ArtistrySir Ken Robinson Book “The Element” and TedTalkPODCAST TEAMProduction Support from Molly JenkinsAudio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Performed by Jasper LyRECORDEDRecorded on 25 August, 2021.Show Less

Jesse Livingston has a Bachelor’s degree from the Oberlin Conservatory and a Master’s degree in orchestral conducting from Ithaca College. He then transitioned into user research which eventually brought him and his family to San Francisco, CA. For the past 5 years, he has worked at LinkedIn and Netflix but is now undergoing yet another career transition; because… why not? QUOTES“My wrestle with classical music was, I didn't have a sense that people wanted to do things in new ways.”“The tech world was more open to change and trying new things.”“The addiction to suffering, you saw that all the time.”“Handicapping our own music making by learned helplessness.”“I walked into the interview, I was able to use the core skills as a musician in that interview to convince them to hire me and that I would be a valuable asset even though I had no experience.”“Understanding the human experience is really familiar.”“Finding patterns amidst a complex system is the biggest skill I use as a designer and researcher”LINKSJon DeWaal, Liminal SpaceDalcroze eurhythmicsThe End of Early Music: A Period Performer's History of Music for the Twenty-First CenturyPODCAST TEAMProduction Support from Molly JenkinsAudio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Performed by Jasper LyRECORDEDRecorded on 21 June, 2021.

Erik Lautier is a former professional actor and opera singer who parlayed a web design business serving performing artists in the early 2000s into a highly successful career as an ecommerce and marketing executive at publicly-traded retail companies. Today, he’s an entrepreneur, an emerging composer, and a dad.QUOTES“The definition of making it on Broadway is doing the same show for potentially years at a time. And that terrified me because I didn’t see another way.”“I’m going to teach myself web design so I can build a site for my performance work, others saw it and started to pay me to do that for them.”“I needed an exclamation point after my performance career, to show I had skills and that ended up being an MBA.”“It dawned on me that what was truly unique about me was this background that was completely unconventional… they (MBA colleagues) saw value in that even if I didn't at the time.”“The marriage of technical and creative is a gift that musicians have that they don’t realise they have. That is extraordinarily valuable in business or another context.”“When people ask me what they should I do, I say “just do something, anything you’re passionate about” Just get started.”“Being able to pay singers to make their art was very gratifying.”“I wasn’t afraid to fail and I wasn’t afraid to look like an idiot. And that’s the key. You can’t be worried about appearances on this kind of journey.”LINKSErik LautierHamlet, an Epic Opera by Erik LautierSeth GodinINSEAD: The Business School for the WorldPivoting Into Business After an Artistic Career from INSEADPODCAST TEAMProduction Support from Molly JenkinsAudio Engineering from Frazer RuddickTheme Music Composed by Danna YunTheme Music Performed by Jasper LyRECORDEDRecorded on 05 April, 2021.