In 1963, the US Supreme Court ruled that all criminal defendants were guaranteed a right to counsel under the 6th and 14th Amendments. Jonathan Rapping, a former public defender and professor at John Marshall Law School, co-founded Gideon’s Promise to address the inadequacies of our public defender system by empowering motivated, passionate public defenders to work across the United States and bridge the gap between the ideal of the 6th Amendment’s right to counsel and the inadequacies of our criminal defense system. Prof. Rapping explains why a quality public defender system is so important for marginalized communities and our country as a whole, what it takes to be a great public defender, and how public defenders are addressing changes in our legal landscape.(00:00) - Introduction (00:51) - Introducing Prof. Jonathan Rapping (03:19) - What it takes to be a public defender (04:29) - How law students can maintain their empathy and humanity (06:43) - Prof. Rapping’s personal journey (08:25) - The conflict of training lawyers in public defender offices (10:16) - The mission of Gideon’s Promise (12:19) - How Gideon’s Promise trains public defenders and why it matters (13:47) - The real challenges public defenders face (17:27) - YSL, OJ Simpson, and the public perception of criminal defense lawyers (22:42) - Why underfunding public defense fails the American ideal (24:37) - How public defenders are facing legal and social changes (28:55) - Host takeaways and discussion Click here to view the episode transcript.

Harvard Law Professor Nicholas Stephanopoulos, a leading authority on gerrymandering and election law, explores the pivotal role that legal professionals play in safeguarding our democratic processes. Professor Stephanopoulos shares his insights on the current state of election law, the impact of recent Supreme Court decisions, and the ongoing challenges in campaign finance. By the end of the episode, you’ll understand why every election is crucial and how the legal community can uphold the integrity of our democracy.

Each year in the US, more than thirty thousand new law school graduates enter a crowded marketplace, joining more than a million other attorneys in practice.  It should come as no surprise that many find it difficult to stand out and be seen. Each attorney may take a different approach: spending a lot of time and money on websites and SEO; maybe lucking into a high profile case; or, I don’t know, perhaps… hosting a podcast.  There’s no one simple path, but each approach offers its own invaluable lessons, and all necessitate deeply understanding your audience and successfully leveraging opportunities. In this episode, we highlight one attorney who has leveraged Instagram and other social media platforms to create opportunities for herself, and we explore how her experiences can help you build your own brand.

School’s out for the summer, and the ABA Law Student podcast is wrapping up for the season. Faculty host Todd Berger and student hosts Leah Haberman and Chay Rodriguez get together one last time to reflect on this year’s podcast and discuss the many possibilities that await both law students and recent graduates during the summer season. They discuss future plans, summer internships and classes, bar prep, employment opportunities, and much more. Stay cool, kids! We’ll be back before you know it. Subscribe to this podcast so you won’t miss a beat when we return this fall.

Recent protests at universities across the country pushed the boundaries of free speech, and outcomes for protestors were varied, to say the least. The world of academia encourages the free exchange of ideas, but some protest actions prompted police involvement, disciplinary action by universities, student expulsions, and even the loss of career opportunities for graduates. As a law student, what do you need to understand about these events as interpreted through our existing legal frameworks? Professor Roy Gutterman joins Chay, Leah, and Professor Berger to offer his expertise on First Amendment rights and the interplay of civil protests and the law.

Many young law students begin their studies with high hopes of generating change by becoming a lawyer and advocate, but what does this lofty dream look like in the real world? Leah Haberman talks with Professor Dorothy Roberts about her career as a lawyer, professor, author, and activist. Professor Roberts shares how her unique skills led her to leverage her curiosity and passions to become an expert on racial interconnections and tensions in many legal issues, particularly those involving reproductive injustices and child welfare. She shares many tips for law students on how to bring focus to their strengths and interests, embrace collaboration, and make small but meaningful changes in the world; one day at a time.Dorothy Roberts is the 14th Penn Integrates Knowledge Professor, the George A. Weiss University Professor of Law & Sociology, and the Raymond Pace & Sadie Tanner Mossell Alexander Professor of Civil Rights at University of Pennsylvania.

Many law students begin their studies thinking they have their legal ambitions all mapped out, only to realize later that their perfect plan is no longer what they want. Having this type of identity crisis in law school isn’t a bad thing, and if it happens to you, don’t panic! Law school and your early legal career should be a time for exploration and change. Chay Rodriguez talks with attorney Katie Winchenbach about her personal experiences and the strategies, resources, and connections that helped her pivot to new opportunities both as a student and a young lawyer. Katie Winchenbach is a corporate attorney at Motorola Solutions and program director for Ms. JD, a national nonprofit that supports aspiring and early-career women attorneys.

Becoming a specialist in a niche area of the law is often touted as the most effective path for attorneys, but there’s definitely much to be said for having a more dynamic approach to your future legal career. As an attorney, you may end up with a client whose needs stretch across multiple areas of the law, and being willing to learn and develop new areas of expertise are essential in those situations. Leah Haberman interviews Michael Quinn about his experiences representing clients in the fight against the Sackler Family and Purdue Pharma—which both bore heavy responsibility for the opioid crisis. Michael, an arts lawyer, discusses his involvement in this highly publicized case and how his flexible approach to his own legal practice led him to navigate multiple areas of the law to fight for his clients. Michael Quinn is a partner at Eisenberg & Baum, LLP, where he heads the firm’s Arts & Culture Practice Group. 

Labor issues captured the headlines throughout much of 2023, with over 400 strikes involving half a million workers. From a legal perspective, there’s a lot to unpack about negotiation tactics, advances in labor and employment law, impacts on basic human rights, and effective ways to fight for fair outcomes in legal matters. In this edition of the ABA Law Student Podcast, former professional soccer player and now attorney Meghann Burke talks about her experiences while leading the National Women’s Soccer League Players Association to its first collective bargaining agreement in 2022. Looking at both employment and a wider range of advocacy issues, this episode explores the value of creative negotiation skills in the life of a lawyer. Meghann Burke is an attorney and executive director of the National Women’s Soccer League Players Association. 

There’s no way to take a pass on tech competence. In your future as a lawyer, you have an ethical responsibility to understand and use technology in your practice, and today’s fastest growing tech is AI. Whether you’re an AI fan or perhaps a little scared of a robot takeover, this podcast will help you understand many of the latest AI trends and their impacts in the legal world. Leah Haberman interviews Professor Orly Lobel, author of “The Equality Machine: Harnessing Tomorrow’s Technologies for a Brighter, More Inclusive Future”, to discuss AI, algorithms, current tools, and how to make sense of them all. There are and always will be positive and negative implications for AI uses, and our goal should be to use it for good. Orly Lobel is the Warren Distinguished Professor of Law at the University of San Diego, the founding director of the Center for Employment and Labor Policy (CELP), and the award-winning author of several books and numerous articles.

After a criminal pays their debt to society, should they continue to suffer additional consequences for their crime for the rest of their life? Ricky Panayoty developed a deep passion for the law while serving a 10-year sentence for robbery, but really didn’t know whether he could apply to college, let alone law school, after being released. Law students come from a multitude of backgrounds, but justice-impacted individuals like Ricky often have many more obstacles to overcome. Faculty host Todd Berger talks with host Chay Rodriguez about her interview with Ricky discussing his incarceration, the experiences that fueled his interest in law, and his circuitous path to law school. They also highlight the perspective a justice-impacted individual brings to the legal profession and examine policies and procedures that affect the future prospects of these individuals.  Ricky Panayoty is a Juris Doctor candidate at Atlanta's John Marshall Law School and worked as a summer intern at Bryant Green & Associates.

As law students learn to be lawyers, some feel that they lose themselves—that their prior creative, dynamic individuality is slowly replaced by an unrecognizable law school robot. If you’ve experienced this disorienting feeling, you’re not alone. Host Leah Haberman is joined by Professor Michelle Falkoff of Northwestern University to talk about how to hang on to your creativity in law school. In their conversation, they examine the art of communication through legal writing and how originality and personal authenticity help you become an even better lawyer. This episode of the ABA Law Student Podcast is full of new voices! Faculty host Professor Todd Berger is joined by student hosts Leah Haberman and Chay Rodriguez for a new season of episodes focusing on topics important to today’s law students. 

Mark Geragos made a name for himself successfully representing Susan McDougal, President Bill Clinton’s erstwhile business partner, following her conviction related to the 1990s Whitewater controversy. Since then, he has represented many prominent figures—from politicians to Hollywood elites to pro athletes and more—and has a multitude of fascinating stories to tell. DeMario Thornton talks with Mark about his path through law school, his career choices, and much more. Mark Geragos is Principal with the internationally known trial law firm of Geragos & Geragos where he has represented some of the most prominent figures in the world.

The July bar exam is right around the corner, and if you’re like most recent law school grads, you’ve probably got some pre-test jitters. DeMario Thornton welcomes young lawyer Taylor DiChello to pick her brain on strategies for successful bar prep and test-taking. Taylor discusses her approach to studying, the usefulness of BARBRI courses, the structure of the bar exam, and much more. Tune in for practical tips and reassurances to calm your nerves as the exam approaches. Taylor DiChello is a corporate associate at Gunderson Dettmer where she specializes in the representation of emerging growth companies throughout their life cycles.

Do you have a particular interest outside of becoming a lawyer? With how incredibly broad the law is, a niche practice area might just align with your passions. For Arlan Lewis, his experience in architecture and some serendipitous happenings in law school led him to a fulfilling career in construction law. DeMario Thornton talks with Arlan about his career path, the nuances of construction law, and his top advice for today’s law students, no matter what area of the law they choose to pursue.  Arlan D. Lewis is a partner at Blueprint Construction Counsel, LLP.

Law school, bar prep, and the legal profession in general can be hard on mental health, but there is help through Lawyer Assistance Programs that even law students can access. DeMario Thornton talks with Molly Ranns about the services and support available to help law students and professionals cope with stress, anxiety, depression, and substance abuse. Molly also outlines what signs and symptoms law students should be aware of to help them assess their own mental well-being.Molly Ranns is program director for the Lawyers and Judges Assistance Program at the State Bar of Michigan and a co-host of the State Bar of Michigan’s On Balance Podcast.Find out more about the Michigan Bar’s program:Lawyers & Judges Assistance Program - State Bar of [email protected], search for your state’s LAP program here:ABA Directory of Lawyer Assistance ProgramsMentioned in this episode:The Prevalence of Substance Abuse and Other Mental Health Concerns Among American Attorneys Suffering in Silence: The Survey of Law Student Well-Being and the Reluctance of Law Students to Seek Help for Substance Use and Mental Health Concerns

A lot of us started law school thinking we knew exactly what we would do with a law degree. So what happens when a surprising, but very different opportunity comes along? Jerome Crawford didn’t set out to become a cannabis attorney, but he’s thankful for the goals and pursuits that made him into a good lawyer and led him to the career he enjoys today. DeMario Thornton talks with Jerome about both his law school and professional experiences and why law students should never feel guilty about pivoting to new and different opportunities in law.Jerome Crawford is Chief Legal Officer at Pleasantrees Cannabis Company.

Law school is tough, but you’re not alone! DeMario Thornton welcomes fellow law student Sarah Atkinson to talk through the highs and lows of law school. They share their struggles and discuss the ways they have navigated the stresses and uncertainties of legal education, summer internships, job-hunting, bar prep, and more.Sarah Atkinson is a 3L at the University of Alabama School of Law

DeMario Thornton welcomes Professor Deleso A. Alford to discuss her work at the intersection of legal and medical education, where her scholarship helps students gain a broader understanding of how race, gender, and classism have shaped these two fields of study. Professor Alford shares highlights from her studies of Henrietta Lacks, critical race theory, cultural competency, and other histories (or HER stories) of black women and their experiences in our healthcare systems.Professor Deleso A. Alford is the Rachel Emanuel Endowed Professor at Southern University Law Center.

In the midst of a nightmarish judicial clerkship, Aliza Shatzman found that there was almost no protection for her, a lowly clerk, suffering harassment at the hands of a seemingly all-powerful judge. This experience and its aftermath spurred Aliza on to create The Legal Accountability Project. Host DeMario Thornton talks with Aliza about how the Project’s research and partnerships are bringing much-needed transparency to the judicial clerkship experience to create more resources and ensure better outcomes for future clerks.Aliza Shatzman is the president and co-founder of the Legal Accountability Project.

What can you expect when trying for a spot at one of the much coveted summer associateships? DeMario Thornton talks with Craig Savitzky of Law360 about the insights gleaned from the 2022 Summer Associates Survey. This two-part survey looks at law students’ approaches to the application and interview processes and then revisits students after their associateships to assess their program experiences.Craig Savitzky is a senior data analyst at Law360.

Minority lawyers operating in white-dominated spaces face unique challenges as they navigate careers in the legal profession. As negative stereotypes assault them from without, self-doubt and imposter syndrome can develop within. DeMario Thornton welcomes Michael Nava, a gay, Mexican-American author and attorney, to gain insights from his remarkable career and hear his thoughts on overcoming discrimination and supporting diversity in the legal world.Michael Nava is the author of an acclaimed series of seven crime novels featuring gay, Latino criminal defense lawyer Henry Rios. Michael spent many years working as an attorney in California and retired from the law in July 2016.

Returning guest Omarosa Newman joins Demario Thornton to go into deeper detail about her educational journey through multiple Historically Black Colleges and Universities and why she chose to attend Southern University–also an HBCU–for law school. Since their inception, HBCUs have focused on educating brilliant young minds. Tune in to learn more about the unique experience students find at these institutions.Check out Omarosa’s book, Unhinged: An Insider's Account of the Trump White House.Omarosa Newman is a reality tv star, a communications professional, and a 1L at Southern University Law Center.

You know her from “The Apprentice,” “Big Brother,” Trump’s White House, and more; and now she’s in the middle of law school just like you! Brand-new Law Student Podcast host DeMario Thornton chats with Omarosa about her unusual path to law school, her reality tv experiences, the confidence she feels as a non-traditional student with plenty of life experience to draw from, and what she hopes to do with her law degree. Omarosa Newman is a reality tv star, a communications professional, and a 1L at Southern University Law Center.

Intellectual property law touches so many corners of law in general, and those interested in pursuing it may take any number of paths in legal practice. To explore the vast world of IP law, Meg Steenburgh welcomes Howard Leib to learn from his exciting career in IP and entertainment law. They dig into the nuances of trademarks, discuss a variety of newsworthy IP matters, and Howard shares insights on how to work toward your own IP law goals.Howard Leib is an entertainment and IP attorney, a law professor, a political and community activist, and hosts a comedy radio show on WRFI-FM in Ithaca, NY.

Arguably, a Supreme Court appointment is the greatest prize in American politics, perhaps more so than the presidency. In consequence, these positions lend themselves to manipulation and tactical moves where possible, in spite of past norms. ABA Law Student Podcast host Meg Steenburgh welcomes Professor Todd Berger to discuss the concept of court packing, its connotations and implications, and how it could actually bring balance to the Supreme Court. They also discuss the report generated by Biden’s Presidential Commission on SCOTUS, and whether their findings offer any clarity on potential reforms in the Court.Professor Todd A. Berger is a Professor of Law and Director of Advocacy Programs at Syracuse University College of Law.

Even though much has been said about the prematurely leaked draft decision of Dobbs, there’s a great deal to unpack now that the final opinion has been issued. Law Student Podcast host Meg Steenburgh welcomes back Syracuse University College of Law Vice Dean Keith Bybee to explore the reasoning of the opinion as well as the newly released concurring and dissenting opinions. Get a handle on this landmark decision that has raised many questions for law students and professors alike.Professor Keith Bybee is Vice Dean and Paul E. and Hon. Joanne F. Alper ’72 Judiciary Studies Professor at Syracuse University College of Law.

In the wake of the Supreme Court draft leak, many are questioning what ramifications its language could have on a number of past court decisions, as well as Americans’ rights in a variety of other areas. Law Student Podcast host Meg Steenburgh gets perspective on these issues from Vice Dean Keith Bybee. They examine the interplay of courts, politics, and the media, and discuss our nation’s legal processes throughout history.Professor Keith Bybee is Vice Dean and Paul E. and Hon. Joanne F. Alper ’72 Judiciary Studies Professor at Syracuse University College of Law.  

Major General John Altenburg was instrumental in transforming the practice of law in the military through his leadership and immersive approaches for military lawyer training. Meg Steenburgh talks with General Altenburg about the legal infrastructure of the United States Military, his thoughts on the law of war and its implications in the Ukraine conflict, and what advice he has to offer for today’s law students. Major General John D. Altenburg Jr. (USA, Retired) is Of Counsel at Greenberg Traurig, LLC, where he focuses his practice on corporate governance and sensitive, internal investigations in the defense, homeland security sector, and the multilateral development bank sector. 

Information and disinformation campaigns are centuries old, but our social media era has given new and rapid thrust to the sharing of ideas, both for good and ill intent. Meg Steenburgh and Peter W. Singer discuss his book, LikeWar: The Weaponization of Social Media, which analyzes the poisonous effects of disinformation on politics, war, and social issues worldwide. They look at the role of governments, laws, and individuals; and our collective responsibility to support digital literacy and engage in positive digital citizenship. Peter Warren Singer is strategist at New America, a Professor of Practice at Arizona State University, and founder and managing partner at Useful Fiction LLC.Thank you to our sponsor NBI.

In the conflict instigated by Russia in Ukraine, we have already seen numerous and outrageous Russian violations of the Laws of Armed Conflict, but what legal recourse is there against these acts? Meg Steenburgh of the ABA Law Student Podcast interviews Judge James E. Baker to learn about the interplay of law and war on the international stage. Judge Baker examines Russia’s actions to date and offers insights on how the U.S. and other international players can and/or should respond as they follow the rule of law. They also discuss new uses of AI in war, historical examples that compare to Ukraine’s struggle against its aggressor, and why law matters even if a wartime opponent refuses to adhere to it. Judge James E. Baker is director of the Syracuse University Institute for Security Policy and Law, a professor at the Syracuse College of Law and the Maxwell School of Citizenship and Public Affairs, and a Distinguished Fellow at the Georgetown Center for Security and Emerging Technology, Georgetown University. He previously served as a Judge and Chief Judge on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces. Thank you to our sponsor NBI.

Recent bar exam criticisms have left many in the legal sphere questioning whether the test really does what it claims. Is it still an essential step in legal licensure, or is it just a tired tradition? To help law students understand the many facets of this issue, Meg Steenburgh welcomes Josh Block and Adam Allington to discuss arguments for and against the bar exam that were recently aired in a three-part series from the UnCommon Law podcast. Josh Block is the executive producer for video and audio at Bloomberg Industry Group.Adam Allington is a senior audio producer for podcasts at Bloomberg Industry Group and host of the UnCommon Law podcast. Thank you to our sponsor NBI.

Podcast host Meg Steenburgh welcomes recent grad Shannon Knapp and fellow law students Sarah Roberts and Tiffany Love to get their perspectives on law school, legal practice, and life! They each discuss their unique student and real-world experiences—sharing the paths they’ve chosen to pursue, tips for self-care and motivation, and what has helped them handle the rigors of law school and entrance into the profession.Shannon Knapp is a recent graduate of Syracuse University School of Law and an Associate Attorney at Bond, Schoeneck & King PLLC in central New York. Sarah Roberts is an entrepreneur based in eastern Texas and a 2L at Syracuse University School of Law.Tiffany Love is an Air Force spouse, civilian paralegal, and 3L at Syracuse University School of Law.Thank you to our sponsor NBI.

Meg Steenburgh of the ABA Law Student Podcast welcomes Adam Liptak to learn about his career as a legal journalist. Adam explains his typical work cycle as Supreme Court correspondent for The New York Times and offers insights on how a law degree translates into the world of journalism. They also discuss some of the Supreme Court’s upcoming cases and Adam shares his top advice for today’s law students. Adam Liptak covers the Supreme Court for The New York Times.  Thank you to our sponsor NBI.

Intellectual property is most often understood in terms of its economic value, but how do our current laws affect everyday creators and innovators? Meg Steenburgh welcomes Professor Jessica Silbey to discuss current issues in IP law and how the mindsets and expectations of younger generations seem to be at odds with the broad scope of many of these laws. They also discuss Professor Silbey’s expertise in film and its evolving uses as a legal tool.Professor Jessica Silbey is a Professor of Law at Boston University School of Law where she teaches and writes in the areas of intellectual property, constitutional law, and law and the humanities. Thank you to our sponsor NBI. 

Meg Steenburgh welcomes Krystal Williams to discuss her unconventional path to law. After many years as a business professional, Krystal’s hunger for learning led her to shift her sights to law. She shares some of her experiences as an older student and discusses where her legal career has taken her in the years since law school. Krystal Williams is founder of Providentia Group, chairman of the board of KinoTek Software, and founder of The Alpha Legal Foundation.Thank you to our sponsor NBI.

In addition to her impressive legal experience in politics, military, private practice, journalism, and more, Jill Wine-Banks has also been a woman of many firsts throughout her legal career. Tune in with ABA Law Student Podcast host Meg Steenburgh for an in-depth interview with Jill about her many “first woman” roles, her memoir “The Watergate Girl,” and her advice for today’s law students. Jill Wine-Banks is currently an MSNBC legal analyst, appearing regularly on the network’s primetime and daytime shows.Thank you to our sponsor NBI.

From the FDA’s emergency use authorization of vaccines, to federalism concerns, to employee/employer relationships, to schools, and much more—legal issues related to the COVID-19 pandemic continue to crop up at a rapid pace. To help law students make sense of these evolving matters, Meg Steenburgh welcomes Harvard Law professor Glenn Cohen to share valuable insights on a wide variety of pandemic-era legal topics. Professor Glenn Cohen is one of the world's leading experts on the intersection of bioethics and the law. Thank you to our sponsor NBI.

Patrick Krill discusses legal field mental health issues and offers strategies for monitoring and improving personal wellness. Thank you to our sponsor NBI.

Thankfully, career opportunities for law students and new lawyers seem to be increasing as COVID concerns abate. But, how can you best prepare yourself for actually getting the job you want? Meg Steenburgh welcomes Howard University School of Law’s Lauren Jackson to discuss tips and tactics for pursuing a fulfilling legal career. She emphasizes the importance of networking from day one of law school and advises students to keep an open mind about the opportunities that come their way. 

National security expert and Syracuse University professor William Banks sheds light on how current events interact with our nation’s security and the law. Thank you to our sponsor NBI.

Public Justice Center staff attorney John Pollock outlines current efforts to institute the right to counsel in civil matters.

Zach Neumann explains how lawyers and law students can help tenants facing eviction during the pandemic.

Angela Tripp shares insights into her rewarding work with the successful Michigan Legal Help Program.

Jim St. Germain shares his experiences in the juvenile justice system and the critical role of mentors in his path to becoming a leader in his community.

Attorney Natasha Fortune discusses her work at the Legal Aid Society of New York in the Juvenile Rights Practice and the cycles of racial injustice that affect her work with children of color.

Attorney Robert Barnett sits down with host Meghan Steenburgh to discuss his storied career including his work with ten Presidential campaigns.

Sally Fisher Curran discusses her career in legal aid.