Discussion of The Lord of the Rings, The Fellowship of the Ring [Extended Edition] We’re finally here! Join Cam and Maggie for a spirited discussion of the first half (roughly) of the Fellowship movie (For those following along at home, the first hour and twenty-four minutes). We watched everything through what we’ve read in the book, and boy is Viggo Mortensen a total babe. He is more Aragorn than the book Aragorn. Stunning! We break down all the changes from the book and their effects on the story. This movie is an interpretation of Tolkien’s work, but we argue that its writers are also wonderful editors of the source text. They maintain and even occasionally improve the pacing / dramatic stakes of Fellowship. There’s not a single whiff of Tom Bombadil! Gandalf is absolved of his war crimes! We actually cut away from the hobbits to check in on Gandalf – and the Black Riders! – and Saruman! And we even get Arwen early, taking the place of poor Zinfandel. It’s a humdinger of a movie, and we measure it against the book and all of our long-running funky theories about color palettes and narrators. In our Second Breakfast, we do a quick retrospective on Book One of Fellowship, now that we’re truly done with it. Were we satisfied? Was it a horror movie? If we were just reading this book for fun, would we want to keep reading? Maggie ends with a pretty striking take on the story so far, and then Cam compliments The Mandalorian and asks if Kylo Ren is Snape. Have an observation, comment or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of Fellowship of the Ring, Chapter Twelve Join Cam and Maggie for the grand finale of Fellowship Book One! This chapter has a truly blockbuster ending, and we dig through all the fascinating, provocative details hidden within the confrontation with all nine (!) Black Riders. Strider’s telepathy continues to unsettle Cam, and he’s got an intriguing follow-up to last week’s conversation about free will and Frodo’s subservience to the Ring. We analyze the color palette of this chapter – startlingly grey – and offer a few different theories about what that color means in Middle-earth. (This part of the discussion totally changed how Cam thinks about Frodo!) Maggie tracks the echoes of Gandalf through these pages and we wonder more than once if he has quietly returned to the fellowship (the birds! the mysterious figure in white! the secret markings!) and we work together, throughout the episode, to make sense of Frodo’s strange, corrosive, “evil” wound. In our Second Breakfast segment, we’re doing a Best of 2020 discussion! Cam and Maggie share their top three (in no particular order) movies, tv shows, albums, books, games, podcasts, and comedy specials from this terrible year. But quarantine meant that we caught up on a ton of older works of art this year too – so we start by sharing our Best Discoveries of 2020. Classic horror movies abound – but there are some surprises in there too. No Winnie the Pooh, sadly. We end the show by each announcing our favorite works of art this year in any category. Thank you so much for your support this year, and we’ll be back next week with the first half of the Fellowship movie. Obviously, I mean the extended edition. Come on. Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of Fellowship of the Ring, Chapter Eleven Join Cam and Maggie for a holiday extravaganza? I don’t know. We’ve got a fun little seasonal skit at the start of the episode. Maggie’s secret talent is her Linus impression – but hey, the episode is good too! Strider continues to ruthlessly alpha Frodo, and this time he throws some shade at Gandalf too. This is the most cinematic chapter we’ve ever read – tons of combat, multiple cuts away from the hobbits, and magic absolutely everywhere. Cam breaks down the explosive finale between Frodo and the Black Riders and its severe implications for LOTR’s navigation of free will and God. His whole opinion on the Ring has changed, and Maggie is totally vindicated just thrilled! They work together to break down the image of fire as enlightenment and Tolkien’s statements about knowledge / the value of the written word in Middle-earth. There are also some fun new developments regarding Gandalf’s spy army of birds, a few unexpected echoes of the long absent Bilbo Baggins, Esquire., and a healthy dollop of slasher references. Fellowship is and remains a horror movie. In our Second Breakfast segment, Maggie draws some alarming parallels between the fantasy genre and romance stories! We discuss the value of low-brow entertainment v. High Brow Art and the stupidity of value judgments and “guilty pleasures” – all while Maggie desperately tries to avoid actually naming the romance books she’s been reading. Cam vehemently defends The Lake House and appears to suggest that the Regency era and medieval times are the same thing. Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of Fellowship of the Ring, Chapter Nine Join Cam and Maggie for another doozie of a chapter. We’re both head over heels in love with Strider, and more convinced than ever that this book is just Prisoner of Azkaban. Dementors were one thing, and prophecies too, but now Strider is exactly the same sort of cool uncle as Sirius Black was! (rip) This chapter is all about Maggie’s seen and unseen theory. The only image is fire and darkness, and it all gets weaponized into a beautiful power struggle between Strider and Frodo – you can guess whose side we’re on there. Cam continues to argue for Aragorn’s telepathy powers and about halfway through the episode, ole Rattlesnake Maggie whips out a theory about narrators that could change our entire reading of LOTR. Gandalf returns to the story, but Maggie’s theory puts him in his place and moves right along. She breaks down the funky little poem included at the end of Gandalf’s letter and Cam does his level best to discuss runes. We also wonder if Frodo is classist and there’s some very serious mustache discussion at the start of the episode. In our Second Breakfast segment, Cam lays out a bunch of additional information about the 4K LOTR editions, and we discuss the importance and impact of “color grading” in a visual medium like movies. With this new information, we tackle subjects like visual consistency and the power of special effects. This spirals into debates about paperback v. hardcover, matte v. glossy, and all the other incredibly important ephemeral details that shape our consumption of stories before we read the first word. Reference points include True Detective, The Haunting of Hill House, and the work of The White Stripes. Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of Fellowship of the Ring, Chapter Nine Join Cam and Maggie for the best chapter we’ve read in a Month! The Saga of Tommy Dabomba is officially over, and Tolkien replaces him with the suave and dangerous Strider. Don’t worry, we mostly pretend not to know his real name. Maggie calls this chapter a crossroads, and that label becomes the basis for our discussion. Merry and Pippin return to their original supporting roles, the strong narration of The Hobbit comes roaring back, and we’re poked and prodded with all sorts of magical callbacks and hype. Cam breaks down Strider’s masterful introduction – he feels immediately familiar, but still carries some of the magic and danger of the unknown world beyond the Shire. Maggie analyzes Frodo’s big song – a full two pages of the chapter – and we work together to dissect the pointed Frodo v. Bilbo comparisons in this scene. Cam even spots some interesting echoes of Tom, and we rejoice that he’s finally in our rear-view mirror. Let’s hope he stays there, so we can keep an eye on him. I haven’t forgotten about the bathtubs and the frolicking. In our Second Breakfast segment, Cam tries to figure out what happens when fantasy authors settle into their magical worlds. Using Harry Potter as a comparison, we look for complications, tests, and questions that can only be explored in sequels – once everyone is familiar with the rules. Expect lots of Prisoner of Azkaban and some scattered August Rush bashing throughout the episode. You know what? I think we totally forgot to talk about horror movies this time. Happy holidays. Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of The Fellowship of the Ring, Chapter Eight Join Cam and Maggie for (hopefully) the last ever appearance of Tom Bombadil. Oh no wait, Frodo summons him back the second we get rid of him. We struggle through another chapter of nonsense words and third person singing, but this time it is punctuated by bits of action, intriguing symbolism, and – Dementors? Luckily, we just rewatched Prisoner of Azkaban, so we’re in a good position to catch the thirty thousand parallels between this chapter and that book. Oh boy. Cam finds some more evidence that Goldberry is a ghost and Maggie breaks down some of the surreal nature description that Tolkien does here while constantly referencing The Evil Dead (lots of fog and severed arms!) We also work through the many Tom / Gandalf comparisons and try to identify the real Daddy of Middle-earth. Cam stretches himself and attempts to analyze a dream, and he even manages to go a whole episode without mentioning Winnie the Pooh. The conversation grinds to a halt so we can appreciate Tom’s wonderful, portly old horse – Fatty Lumpkin. And then finally, finally, the chapter ends with the journey truly beginning. We celebrate and do some post-mortem on the three-chapter Tom Bombadil saga that derailed the entire book’s sense of momentum and urgency. Does Tom redeem himself with this appearance? In our Second Breakfast segment, Cam leads us on a jolly philosophical excursion inspired by the newly released 4K versions of The Lord of the Rings. Topics include: when is art finished? When should we stop paying attention to revisions? What is the definitive version of a work of art? We work through these ideas with unkind references to Star Wars, as well as more charitable comments about Saw, It, The Hateful Eight, and The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy. Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of The Fellowship of the Ring, Chapter Seven Join Cam and Maggie in this unfortunate Thanksgiving extravaganza. This whole chapter is spent trapped in a “penthouse” with unnerving Tolkien supervillain Tommy Dabomba. He really bounces off the walls this time in a surreal assault of singing, third person references, troubling revelations, intriguing red flag plot developments, and unending references to colors and trees. Yeah, there’s a lot of dung to sift through this week – the man enters the room solely to compliment his wife’s girdle. Because it’s a holiday, Cam decides to commit to the bit and fully argue that Fellowship is a horror book. He leads a breakdown of all the chapter’s interesting developments, which concern magic in Middle-earth, the magical pecking order of this world, and Tom’s true identity. We get some more symbolic dreams to break down too, and Maggie wonders if any of this is really happening. Maybe Tom is dead, or a ghost, or fake – or just boring. For our Second Breakfast segment, we break down the relationship between coincidences and storytelling. To illustrate this point, we say some mean things about August Rush and Cam asks Maggie lots of leading questions. Why do they feel so artificial and disappointing? Are coincidences always lazy writing? Does fantasy get a free pass by hiding being the thin, vague veil of “magic”? All these topics are more are explored in this Tom Bombadil Blowout. Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of The Fellowship of the Ring, Chapter Six Join Maggie and Cam in their irrational hatred and fear of Tom Bombadil. He shows up at just the right time and offers our heroes exactly what they need. It’s suspicious – and he speaks in nonsense words and sings about himself in third person. Oh and he might be a wizard, whose convenient little house in the clearing of an evil wood gives Cam some strong Hansel and Gretel vibes. Horrifying. In this episode, we break down all of our suspicions about Tom. We also unpack the numerous similarities between this chapter and the spooky journey through Mirkwood in The Hobbit. That adventure was a highlight of Bilbo’s story for us, but this chapter might be the first dud in The Lord of the Rings. We have a great time investigating all the expectations and echoes that led to our mutual disappointment. This episode gets a little silly. In our Second Breakfast segment, Cam tries to figure out why some stories can thrill us while being riddled with callbacks and echoes and limiting their scope to just a few characters and locations. To illustrate this point, we talk about a few plotlines on The Office. These comparisons serve to further our main discussion about why Mirkwood works better than the Old Forest, but Cam also develops a theory about “roads less travelled” in storytelling, and the value of teasing out multiple endings. Maggie reflects on this chapter’s surrealism by comparing it to another freaky and unpredictable story she’s been enjoying lately, In the House in the Dark of the Woods by Laird Hunt. This chapter was a bit of a stinker for us, but don’t worry – the episode is still fun! Plus, we get more of Terrifying Tom next week. Oh joy. Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of The Fellowship of the Ring, Chapter Five Join Maggie and Cam for a discussion of Tolkien’s restraint and provocations. This chapter is full of callbacks and echoes from The Hobbit, but it also continues to pivot away from many of the patterns and priorities established by that earlier story. Frodo, Sam, Merry, and Pippin slow down and catch their breath following their latest escape from the Black Riders, and in their downtime, we learn a lot more about their group dynamics and decision-making hierarchy. We discuss Tolkien’s growing interest in friendship and loyalty, Frodo’s expectations of his companions, and what he is quietly saying about these hobbits when he has them sing a “bath-song” praising Hot Water. This chapter is less about near-death experiences than it is a series of character revelations, and we dig through each one like a pair of truffle pigs hunting for lunch. In conversation, we make new sense of Frodo’s surreal, symbolic dream at the end of the chapter, and even manage to make some positive comparisons to other fantasy works. There are also, of course, many more horror references and another visit from Pooh. In our Second Breakfast segment, Maggie leads a discussion about graphic novels that extends into adaptation, visual learning, and our own attention spans, as well as our preferences across artistic mediums. Yeah, I know it is technically “media” but that is a different word that means something else, and language is fake. Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of The Fellowship of the Ring, Chapter Four Join Maggie and Cam as they attempt to outrun the Black Riders, Old Maggot’s dogs, and updates about the election. This chapter is a sneaky one – lots of character development and atmospheric work, but no huge plot revelations. We discuss all of Tolkien’s quiet declarations here, from the changing nature of danger in Middle-earth to the totally restructured “episodic” nature of this adventure. Echoes and pivots persist throughout this chapter. Gandalf is absent, for the first time, but he might still be pulling the strings. All of the hobbits’ allies in this chapter, from the elves to the farmer, have loose ties to the wizard and his magic. We investigate all of these little provocations while dropping even more references to Midsommar, The Evil Dead, and Halloween. We even spot a “literary jump scare,” and Cam continues to insist that Fellowship is a horror movie. Maggie finds everything she loved about Bilbo split between our new hobbits – Frodo, Sam, and Pippin – and we find some more uncomfortable parallels with elements of Harry Potter.  In our Second Breakfast segment, Cam shares some excerpts from a letter Tolkien wrote to W.H. Auden. Tolkien comments on some of our oldest debates about “children’s stories” and the Ring, as well as providing some fascinating insight into the process of expanding the world of The Hobbit and beginning Fellowship. Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Cam has some new stories out this week - an original political satire about a moose and a spooky reimagining of an Edgar Allan Poe short story. Listen to the audiobooks here: www.cameronfucile.bandcamp.com And thank you for the support! // Discussion of The Fellowship of the Ring, Chapter Three Join Maggie and Cam for a spirited discussion about this dangerous, thrilling chapter. A hissing, faceless Ringwraith stalks our hobbits through the Shire, we meet some “high elves,” and Tolkien draws a dozen fascinating points of contrast between this story and The Hobbit. The adventure finally begins, and many of our long-running debates are thrown into chaos: does the Ring have direct influence over the wearer’s mind? Is Gandalf secretly the narrator, pulling strings and deploying friends to save our heroes? We also get to peek into the mind of a fox, who apparently speaks English! Frodo’s sale of Bag End leads us to compare him and Bilbo – who is more mature? What are their priorities and motivations? Who does Gandalf trust more? Tolkien is in full pinprick provocation throat-clearing mode here – it’s incredibly fun to parse out. Maggie finds some fascinating callbacks in the chapter’s songs as well, that tie these events very particularly to parts of The Hobbit and further illuminate Bilbo and Frodo’s relationship. In our Second Breakfast segment, Maggie leads a conversation about art and cultural relevance, inspired by Aaron Sorkin’s The Trial of the Chicago 7. Throughout the episode, Cam also brings in some more comparisons to horror movies – Happy Halloween! The Ringwraith – a silent and depersonalized hunter wielding only a blade – leads us right back to Michael Myers and Halloween. The seductive distractions of the Shire remind us of Midsommar. And everything reminds Cam of Winnie-the-Pooh, but you already knew that. He gets all excited about that talking fox. Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of The Fellowship of the Ring, Chapter Two Join Maggie and Cam for this humdinger of a chapter. We finally learn the rules of the Ring and the history of its movements – from its fiery creation through its whole blood-splattered journey into Bilbo’s waistcoat in the Shire. Gandalf takes the reins again as our nearly omniscient narrator to lead us through decades (!!!) of time jumps and a string of character introductions. Aragorn! Mordor! Sméagol! We break it all down for you in this episode, and then the wizard’s insights finally settle some of our most heated debates about the One Ring. The Ring is sentient, the Ring has stated desires – we got some game-changing revelations in this chapter. Of course, we pepper the whole conversation with horror movie references – Happy Halloween! We revisit our discussion of Michael Myers and Halloween to discuss Tolkien’s concept of “The Enemy” and the River of Evil™ that we first discovered in The Hobbit, but we also bring The Exorcist and The Evil Dead into the conversation. Is Gollum inherently evil? Does Gandalf torture him to get information about the ring? Is the big-hatted grey wizard against the death penalty? Oh, and what is Tolkien saying about fate? Like I said, this chapter was jam-packed and provocative. Enjoy, and send us some more horror movie recommendations to discuss on the show. Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of The Fellowship of the Ring, Chapter One Join Maggie and Cam as they say goodbye to Bilbo and finally meet Frodo! This first chapter of Fellowship is a fascinating riff on the first chapter of The Hobbit. We break down the similarities and differences between the chapters and investigate Tolkien’s continued interest in class commentary about the Shire. The narrator is less irreverent and involved this time around (much to Cam’s dismay) but characters like Gandalf and Frodo are as important here as Bilbo was to The Hobbit. This episode investigates the big Party’s multifaceted nature – at the very same time, it feels like a funeral, a wedding, and a graduation party. Maggie looks at the Ring’s effect on Bilbo after nearly sixty years and Cam worries about him giving away all of his possessions (again) and getting his affairs in order (again). We close with a discussion of scale and expectations as we head into the enormity of The Lord of the Rings. In our Second Breakfast, we discuss the difficulties of genre franchising by comparing Tolkien’s Middle-earth books with the various remakes, reboots, and “recalibrations” of John Carpenter’s 1978 slasher classic Halloween. Trust us, it’s weirdly relevant – Michael Myers is Tolkien’s magic system. Cam forces some Shakespeare into the discussion as well, we share our love of Eli Roth, and Maggie can’t stop buying pretty new copies of LOTR. Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

(Heated) Discussion of Khee Hoon Chan’s Polygon article, “Games Need to Return to Black and White Morality” Join Cam and Maggie as they break down a troubling, provocative article related to our last episode and Tolkien’s views on allegory and the motivations / ramifications of storytelling. We respond to claims such as “stories are inherently moral” and the idea that “allowing a sense of moral dilemma over both sides … reinforces the kinds of false equivalencies that might slow down social change”. There is a lot to discuss in this article – we cover polarization, the relationship between activism and art, our current cultural and political hostilities, the human attraction to categories and teams, free speech and censorship, and at one point, skunks. Article Link: https://www.polygon.com/2020/8/3/21352437/games-morality-last-of-of-us-bioshock-good-bad Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of The Fellowship of the Ring, Prologue, Note on the Text, Forward to the Second Edition Join Maggie and Cam as they read through Tolkien’s introduction to The Lord of the Rings. For the first and only time, we get to hear Tolkien’s opinions and preamble on his own work. We explore the implications of his strong opinions on allegory and self-expressed motivations for telling these stories. We also consider the timeline of LOTR’s production (18 years!) and Tolkien’s new judgment of hobbits and their lifestyle. He outlines their feelings on politics and policing, foreign wars and class conflict, and even slips in some provocations about “pipe-weed” that make us think hobbits might be hippies. His recap of the events of The Hobbit include some interesting suggestions about the powers of the Ring that lead us into a renewed argument about greed and corruption. Cam, once again, asks who the narrator is. Because this conversation went loooong, we will be releasing our Second Breakfast segment as a stand-alone Elevensies episode later this week. It’s a doozy of a discussion about “black and white morality” and morally grey storytelling. Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of Rankin & Bass’ The Hobbit Join Maggie and Cam for a psychedelic adventure through time and space and hideous character models. This episode explores the strange animated world of Rankin & Bass’ 1977 adaptation of The Hobbit, which blows through the entire book in an hour and fifteen minutes. We discuss (and describe) all of the weird character choices, from the dwarves’ visible throbbing brains to Bilbo’s Princess Leia hairline. I won’t even tease the evil creatures here – they’re too wild to spoil. We explore the deviations and unexpected book loyalties in this film and have a lot of fun along the way. Enjoy! During our Second Breakfast, Cam leads a discussion about musical cues and sound effects as they are found in fantasy and science fiction. Maggie educates him because she has played an instrument. Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies [Extended Edition] Join Maggie and Cam for two hours of praising Martin Freeman. This episode explores Peter Jackson’s final Middle-earth movie and its unexpectedly strong acts of interpretation. We discuss the fascinating deviations of tone, scope, and character in this film, including Gandalf’s knowledge of Bilbo’s Ring, the surreal representation of Thorin’s inner turmoil, and Tauriel’s contagious love story. Dwarves finally get some real character development in this version of the story, and Maggie suggests that Bilbo’s big moment is different here. Cam offers theories about bridges, both literal and narrative, and the importance of legacy to Tolkien’s villains. We also celebrate the goats, sheep, pigs, and moose-deer-elk in this glorious film. And Bofur comes back. During our Second Breakfast, Maggie asks some provocative questions about emotional manipulation, artistic intent, and creative responsibility – inspired by A Little Life, This Is Us, and The Haunting of Hill House. Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

The Last Stage [The Hobbit, Ch.19] Discussion of The Hobbit, Chapter Nineteen Join Maggie and Cam for the grand finale of The Hobbit. Bilbo finally chooses a future and resolves his longstanding Took / Baggins internal struggle. Gandalf shows his hand and clarifies the power and role of magic in this world. Multiple songs are sung, and a very unexpected character appears in the book’s final illustration. This episode is an analysis of the final chapter and a retrospective on Tolkien’s many hints and provocations thus far. Some of our theories are confirmed and others are tossed into the woodchipper. We also argue about the ring some more, and Cam finally gets to talk about Winnie the Pooh again. During our Second Breakfast, we discuss happy endings, sad endings, and strange, precarious, “contented” endings like the one we find here. We also discuss the path forward into The Lord of the Rings and our increasingly complex relationship with Gandalf. Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Join Maggie and Cam for a special mailbag episode. We respond to your comments about our recent episodes – including Bilbo’s role as a burglar, Gandalf’s god-like role in the story, Maggie’s greed theory, and the neutrality of war. In our Second Breakfast, we reflect on our recent road trips across the country and the role of location in the reading experience. Maggie also got to talk to BookTuber Noelle Gallagher on Instagram! Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of The Hobbit, Chapter Eighteen Join Maggie and Cam for a melancholy meditation on hollow victories, tragic deaths, and the outcome of the Battle of the Five Armies! We continue our discussion about Gandalf’s transcendent magical meddling and consider the final resting places of his favorite puppets – Thorin and Bilbo. This episode explores binaries within characters and Tolkien’s unparalleled power of suggestion – this chapter is eight pages long and we spend two hours parsing its many hints about characters’ inner turmoil. Cam draws two to three hundred comparisons to Doctor Faustus. During our Second Breakfast, Cam notices that this chapter contains a line that spoils all of Game of Thrones. Maggie asks a question about audiobooks vs. print books that provokes a discussion about interpretations and critical reading. Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of The Hobbit, Chapter Seventeen Join Maggie and Cam as they slash and debate their way through the Battle of the Five Armies. This chapter brings everything to a head – Bilbo’s character regression, the recent consolidation of magic back into Gandalf, and Thorin’s emotional turmoil regarding the treasure of Erebor. This episode explores the duality of light and dark in this story as well as the more nuanced, political, global perspective we’ve developed since reaching the Lonely Mountain. We deep dive into a theory Cam presents about Gandalf’s transcendent role in this chapter and the hints of his cosmic power. During our Second Breakfast, we discuss Peter Jackson’s devastating World War I documentary They Shall Not Grow Old and consider its implications for his on-screen battles. Cam expands on Maggie’s question about retellings from last week to include gender and cultural differences. Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod  

Discussion of The Hobbit, Chapter Sixteen Join Maggie and Cam as celebrate Gandalf’s return and analyze Bilbo’s parlay with the enemy. The hobbit’s character growth seems to have come full circle in this chapter, but the idea of regression continues to dominate the narrative. This episode explores the magical hierarchy of Middle-earth and the loyalty / disloyalty of Bilbo’s gamble with the Arkenstone. Maggie questions and explores the chapter’s many Game of Thrones precursors and Cam continues to develop his theory about Tolkien’s parentheticals. We also talk about birds. During our Second Breakfast, Cam talks about the elements of Elizabethan drama that appear in this chapter and Maggie leads a discussion on retellings and adaptation. Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of The Hobbit, Chapter Fifteen Join Maggie and Cam as they head back into the Lonely Mountain – and Thorin’s mind. This episode explores the psychological trauma of the dwarves’ displacement now that they are trapped inside their old home. We investigate Tolkien’s fondness for birds – from the eagles to the ravens and the traitorous thrush. The treasure of Erebor introduces a new perspective on greed in the story and we analyze the concept of regression in relation to the dwarves’ fears and Bilbo’s renewed obsession with food. During our Second Breakfast, we discuss grief, failure, and isolation through comparisons to The Shining and Peaky Blinders. Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of The Hobbit, Chapter Fourteen Join Maggie and Cam for this discussion of a very pivotal chapter. A dragon is dead, and the survivors are grumbling. This episode explores the book’s hard shift into politics and a global perspective. Maggie continues to develop her theory about ‘greed’ in light of recent events and Cam’s disappointment with Smaug’s death leads to a debate about narrative expectations and subversion. During our Second Breakfast, Maggie extends her thoughts about duality into ancient Egyptian art and we talk about what’s left in the story without our fire-breathing villain. Cam also references The Walking Dead half a dozen times during the episode. Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of The Hobbit, Chapter Thirteen Join Maggie and Cam as they triumphantly return to the books to talk about magic and ghosts. This episode explores the unnerving similarities between the Ring and the newly introduced Arkenstone. We continue our discussion on the power of sight in Middle-earth amid a chapter blanketed in darkness. Cam offers three working theories about the Ring’s power and influence as a magical object, and Maggie meditates on the concept of “home” in this story. During our Second Breakfast, we respond to one critic’s strangely abstract praise of The Hobbit as being a “flawless masterpiece”. Maggie suggests that Jude Law should play young Gandalf in the Amazon show. Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug [Extended Edition] Join Maggie and Cam in this special episode, where they question the narrative implications of having Benedict Cumberbatch voice every character in the movie. We discuss the nature of evil and the strange, incestuous relationship between Smaug, Sauron, and the Necromancer. This episode also explores the parallels between the Ring and the Arkenstone, as well as the many callbacks within this movie and the series so far. We also try to figure out who the real villain of the prequel trilogy is - Smaug or Azog? In the face of Maggie's lukewarm reaction to the movie, Cam mounts a spirited defense of it as his favorite Middle-earth film. During our Second Breakfast, we discuss adaptation and disappointment through the lens of the post-Sorkin years of The West Wing, and Maggie reflects on this year's Reading Rush.  Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of The Hobbit, Chapter Twelve Join Maggie and Cam as they finally meet a dragon. Smaug's arrival provokes an extended, heated debate about pride and self-preservation. This episode explores the similarities between Smaug and Gollum as isolated mountain-dwellers who challenge Bilbo and complex characters in their own right. Tolkien pushes us to reexamine the concept of invisibility in the story as well, in addition to our ideas of greed, heroism, and corruption.  During our Second Breakfast, Cam draws parallels to a true crime docuseries that reignited his love of provocative, complicated art. Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of The Hobbit, Chapter Eleven Join Maggie and Cam as they finally reach the Lonely Mountain. This episode explores a short chapter that is loaded with symbolism and existential meditation. Callbacks and teasers echo across a bleak landscape. We deep dive into them all and offer some theories about outsider grief and visual storytelling.  Cam evolves his Creature of the Week theory. During our Second Breakfast, we consider the roots of this chapter in the film genres of horror and Westerns.  Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of The Hobbit, Chapter Ten Join Maggie and Cam on their weekend getaway to Lake-town. This episode explores the dwarves' relationship with fate and legend, as well as the politics of non-intervention embodied by the Master of Lake-town and the King of the Wood-elves. Songs are weaponized to exploit nostalgia and heroism while quiet greed, calculation, and apathy threaten to derail the dwarves' mission. Cam complicates the idea of "evil creatures" in this world and Maggie defends Tolkien's lengthy nature descriptions.  During our Second Breakfast, Maggie extends her discussion about fate and legend with a comparison to Madeline Miller's The Song of Achilles. Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of The Hobbit, Chapter Nine Join Maggie and Cam as they fight off drunken Wood-elves and stuff each other into barrels. This episode explores Bilbo's motivations and subconscious as he works to rescue the dwarves. Tolkien pushes us to reevaluate our "food and shelter" theory from last week. We also debate the power of the ring as both a practical tool and a narrative device. Cam leads a discussion about faith, magic, and luck.  During our Second Breakfast, we consider George Lucas' objectives in making Star Wars, inspired by the documentary "Empire of Dreams". Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of The Hobbit, Chapter Eight Join Maggie and Cam as they encounter the scariest Creature of the Week so far - giant spiders! This episode explores Bilbo's shocking character development and the new roles that he might be taking in the story. We reconsider our theories about the ring's power and xenophobia in Middle-earth. We also celebrate some long-awaited dwarvish development and unpack the many callbacks and echoes in this chapter. During our Second Breakfast, Maggie connects Cam's new theory about food and shelter to the recently released Hunger Games prequel. We also discuss gender-bent productions of classic stories. Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of The Hobbit, Chapter Seven Join Maggie and Cam as they encounter yet another new creature, Beorn! He's hairy and grim and maybe a way for Tolkien to talk to us about disappointing father figures. This episode explores the chapter's many structural echoes and the value of callbacks. We also debate the power of repeated foreshadowing [hi, Mirkwood] and once again bemoan the lack of dwarvish character development. Cam continues to reference Winnie-the-Pooh, but this time he has evidence. Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (Extended Edition) Join Maggie and Cam in this special episode exploring the 2012 movie adaptation of The Hobbit. This film covers the first six chapters of the book. Cam and Maggie discuss the film's production history and analyze it as its own work, before digging into the many interesting deviations and creations in this adaptation. This episode explores the expanded prologue and the film's relationship with the larger LOTR universe. We also reflect on the screen representations of Gandalf and Bilbo as they compare to their book counterparts. Later on, we debate whether or not the songs work better in a movie, but we agree that the eagles are still weird. Gollum's eyes are the wrong color. Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of The Hobbit, Chapter Six Join Maggie and Cam as they encounter snarling, red-eyed wolves and eagles who apparently speak English. This episode explores the limits and convenience of Tolkien's magic system. We also debate the ring's hold over Bilbo and continue to question Tolkien's relationship with environmentalism. Cam suggests that the eagles know about Bilbo's secret - and declares that all dogs are bears.  Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of The Hobbit, Chapter Five Join Maggie and Cam as they meet the slimiest creature in all of Middle-earth - Gollum! This episode analyzes the obvious and unexpected similarities between Bilbo and Gollum, as well as Tolkien's exploration of each character's subconscious. We also discuss the introduction of the Ring and consider the literal and poetic extent of its corruptive power.   Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of The Hobbit, Chapter Four Join Maggie and Cam as they journey through their favorite chapter thus far! This episode explores a sudden escalation of dramatic stakes and Tolkien's tricky hybridization of narrative styles. We also reconsider our disappointment with Chapter Two and celebrate some long-anticipated dwarvish development. Cam finally enjoys fantastical singing.  Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of The Hobbit, Chapter Three Join Maggie and Cam as they continue their journey through Tolkien's Middle-earth. This episode explores the narrator's impatient time jumps as missed opportunities for character development. We also discuss Tolkien's talent for accessible worldbuilding, and consider a few emerging narrative patterns. Maggie leads an aggressive deep-dive into the Elves' songs.  Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected] Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod