What if the core problem in most humans these days isn't that we think too highly of ourselves, but rather that we live with an underlying sense of worthlessness, alienation, and disillusionment? In this episode, Chuck DeGroat joins the pod to talk about his book Healing What's Within and the concept of Internal Family Systems theory. Sharing from his  background as a therapist and pastor, DeGroat explains the importance of befriending our different parts and becoming aware of how they show up in different situations. DeGroat emphasizes the significance of connecting with our true selves and living from that core. Exploring the classic "fall" narrative in Genesis 3, DeGroat proposes the theological concept of a primal wound and the importance of understanding the underlying story and biography behind harmful behavior. He emphasizes the need for pastors and church leaders to have support groups and close friendships to navigate the challenges they face.  Chuck DeGroat is a professor of pastoral care and Christian spirituality at Western Theological Seminary in Holland, Michigan, where he also serves as the founding executive director of the clinical mental health counseling program. He is a licensed therapist, spiritual director, author, retreat leader speaker, and faculty member with the Soul Care Institute. As a therapist, he specializes in navigating issues of abuse and trauma, pastoral (and leadership) health, and doubt and dark nights on the faith journey. He trains clergy in handling issues of abuse and trauma, conducts pastor and planter assessments, and facilitates church consultations and investigations of abuse. Before transitioning to training and forming pastors, Chuck served as a pastor in Orlando and San Francisco. He and his wife, Sara, have been married for 30 years and have two adult daughters. Book Buy Link Chuck’s Website Chuck’s IG Chuck’s X   Episodes Referenced: Chuck DeGroat: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/chuck-degroat-on-when-narcissism-comes-to-church/ Yolanda Solomon: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/solomon/     Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What if common worship practices are elevating our anxiety rather than centering us in the peace of God? In this conversation, J. Michael Jordan joins the show to talk about the intersection of faith and mental health, particularly in relation to anxiety. He explores the historical context of the anxiety-relief repentance model in revivalist movements and its impact on worship practices. He emphasizes the need for a more holistic and sustainable approach to faith that goes beyond the cycle of anxiety, repentance, and relief. Jordan emphasizes the importance of a guiding story outside of our own experiences and the value of ritual in worship. He also discusses practical aspects of worship, such as lighting and technology, and how they can either draw us deeper into the worship experience or distract us from it. Rev. Dr. Michael Jordan (PhD, Drew University) is professor of theology at Houghton University. From 2002-2009, he was the pastor of Exton Community Baptist Church in Exton, PA. From 2013-2024, he served as Dean of the Chapel at Houghton before moving over to teach full-time this fall.  Over the summer, he is the staff chaplain at Camp-of-the-Woods, a Christian camp in the Adirondack Mountains. Mike’s wife Jill is a mathematician who also teaches at Houghton; they live just off campus and together are raising their five children: Grace, Jack, Lucy, Gabriel, and Anne. In his spare time, Mike enjoys singing, crossword puzzles and distance running and is a rabid fan of Philadelphia professional and college sports. Facebook @RevDrMichaelJordan [email protected] theothermichaeljordan.substack.com   Episodes Referenced: Andrew Root: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-himxq-13e0aa9   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

Despite the headlines, young adults are still interested in church, says Jeff Keuss. In this episode, he discusses the surprising findings that young adults view churches as vital social change agents and are not opposed to their existence. Instead, they seek meaningful, inclusive, and intellectually engaging communities that address real-world issues and offer genuine care and mentorship. He also explores the concept of "belong, believe, behave" in church life, challenging traditional membership models and advocating for a more inclusive approach that values diverse voices and experiences. He emphasizes the importance of churches as resource centers that prepare individuals for their roles in the world, rather than merely places of worship. The conversation also explores the shifting dynamics of church leadership, the role of gender diversity in fostering healthy communities, and the critical need for mentorship across generations. Dr. Keuss's research offers a hopeful vision for the future of Christianity, one that embraces diversity, open dialogue, and the transformative power of faith. Jeff Keuss, PhD brings over 30 years of leadership and managerial experience in higher education, health care and social services administration both in the US and UK.   In his various roles as a Professor, Director of the University Scholars Honors Program as well as Associate Dean of Graduate Studies for Seattle Pacific Seminary within SPU, Jeff continues to be actively engaged in research, fundraising, curriculum coordination, working with external publics such as churches and faith communities, major donor acquisition and retention, administrative recruitment, and annual fund development.  His commitment to faith development is seen in his $2.75 million in grant acquisitions as part of a $55 million initiative from the Lilly Endowment for the development of Pivot NW, a non-profit research and support institute seeking to research innovation models for the sake of engaging young adults in innovative social ventures with faith communities. His recent publication  Paul Ricoeur and the Hope of Higher Education: The Just University  (Rowman & Littlefield, 2020), speaks to his continued to work on the future of higher education as a place of justice and hope for human flourishing alongside a global network of thought leaders in educational innovation.  Jeff is an ordained minister of the Word and Sacrament (PCUSA) and served several congregations both in the US and in the Church of Scotland as Assistant Minister of the Glasgow Cathedral.  He is a graduate of Seattle Pacific University (BA), Fuller Theological Seminary (MDiv), Harvard University (Masters in I/O Psychology), and the University of Glasgow, Scotland (PhD in Literature, Theology, and the Arts).   Episodes Referenced: Scott Thumma: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/understanding-the-impact-of-societal-changes-on-congregational-dynamics-insights-from-dr-scott-thumma/ https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/ryan-burge-on-myths-about-religion-and-politics-in-america/   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

How do we make church less "white," and more welcoming and inclusive of different non-white cultures, perspectives, and persons? In this conversation, Grace Ji-Sun Kim discusses her book When God Became White: Dismantling Whiteness for More Just Christianity and the need to challenge the white, male image of God in Christianity. She shares her personal experiences with racism and explores the impact of the image of a white Jesus on the perception of race and power in the church. Dr. Kim suggests embracing non-white, non-gendered images of God in worship and liturgy as a way to promote inclusivity and challenge racism. She also emphasizes the importance of recognizing God's presence in other cultures and religions. Dr. Grace Ji-Sun Kim received her MDiv from Knox College at the University of Toronto and her PhD from the University of Toronto. She is professor of theology at Earlham School of Religion. Dr. Kim is an internationally renowned lecturer and the acclaimed author or editor of 24 books, including When God Became White, Surviving God, and Invisible. Among many other accolades, Englewood review of books listed Invisible as one of the 12 important theology books of 2021, and listed Kim as one of 10 important women theologians that you should be reading. She is also on the list of the top 10 writers shaping our movement put together by the Center for Progressive Renewal.    Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

Have you ever wondered if the battles we face in the modern church are just echoes of centuries-old conflicts? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. dives deep with Elesha J. Coffman to uncover how the struggles of the past are not only shaping our present but could be setting the stage for the church’s future. Elesha delves into the pivotal events that have shaped American church history, with a particular emphasis on the Methodist Church's split over slavery in 1844 and similarities between the division within the UMC today over LGBTQ inclusion and racial justice. They also discuss the tendency for churches to become ideological bunkers, the influence of biblical interpretation in shaping theology and practice, and whether everything just comes down to economic issues. Elesha J. Coffman is an accomplished historian and professor at Baylor University, specializing in the study of American religious history. She earned her Ph.D. in American Religious History from Duke University and has contributed significantly to the field through her extensive research and publications. Coffman is the author of The Christian Century and the Rise of the Protestant Mainline as well as Turning Points in American Church History. Her work examines the intersections of media, religion, and culture, highlighting the role of religious publications in shaping public discourse. Coffman's scholarly pursuits focus on how religious groups engage with broader societal issues, offering valuable insights into the evolving landscape of American faith and identity.   Episodes Referenced: Scott Thumma: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/understanding-the-impact-of-societal-changes-on-congregational-dynamics-insights-from-dr-scott-thumma/   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. welcomes Rev. Dr. Kristina Lizardy-Hajbi, who delves into her recent research, including the Latino Congregations Trends from the Faith Communities Today (FACT) study and the Exploring the Pandemic Impact on Congregations (EPIC) study. She highlights key findings on the state of Latino congregations in the U.S., including challenges related to building ownership, generational wealth, and reliance on fundraising. Kristina also shares insights from her book, Unraveling Religious Leadership, which examines the Eurocentric norms in theological education and the need for a more inclusive approach to ministry. Rev. Kristina Lizardy-Hajbi, Ph.D. (she/her/ella) is Associate Professor of Leadership and Formation and Faculty Director of the Office of Professional Formation at Iliff School of Theology in Denver, Colorado. In addition, she co-directs the Doctor of Ministry in Prophetic Leadership at Iliff and coordinates the Certificate in Latinx Studies for the Iliff/DU Joint PhD in Religion. Her teaching and research interests include organizational leadership, liberative and decolonial approaches to ministry, intersectional pedagogical practices, and applied research methods. Kristina is the author of Unraveling Religious Leadership: Power, Authority, and Decoloniality (Fortress, 2024), author of the report "Latino Congregations: Trends from the Faith Communities Today (FACT) and Exploring the Pandemic Impact on Congregations (EPIC) Studies" (Hartford Institute for Religion Research, 2023), and co-editor of Explore: Vocational Discovery in Ministry (Rowman & Littlefield, 2022). She is an Ordained Minister in the United Church of Christ.   Episodes Referenced: Scott Thumma: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/understanding-the-impact-of-societal-changes-on-congregational-dynamics-insights-from-dr-scott-thumma/   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant  

In this episode, we explore with Megan Bissell the evolving landscape of American Christianity and how faith communities can adapt to new challenges. We begin by discussing the latest data on "nones" (those with no religious affiliation) and Gen Z, highlighting the need for a shift in thinking within American Christianity. Megan shares why she believes faith should be viewed as "a conversation" and why relationships rooted in listening are essential for churches looking to reconnect with modern society. We then introduce the concept of Sacred Listening Tools to help foster meaningful engagement. We delve into the origins of this idea, its practical applications, and its three foundational roots. Lastly, we consider the future implications for Sunday worship and discuss how the role of pastors may need to evolve to better support deeper relationships and conversations within their communities. Megan Bissell is the co-founder of Future of Faith and an applied sociologist and researcher who specializes in the lives of young people, relationships, and group dynamics. She has spent her career turning research into actionable insights that people can use to make a meaningful impact. She has extensive experience  in leading research, facilitating workshops and educational programs, and consulting with organizations who want to enhance their relational and organizational dynamics. ​Megan was previously Head of Research for both the Social Research Lab at the University of Northern Colorado and then at Springtide Research Institute. She served as the Vice President for Research at the National Catholic Educational Association. She has a B.A. and an M.A in Sociology. Megan lives in Greeley, Colorado with her family of creatives, where she has no choice but to be inspired by those around her. Video: https://youtu.be/m3lrNSEWrwI Website: www.futureoffaith.org LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/megan-bissell-7b503713/   Episodes Referenced: Rebekah Simon-Peter: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/amanda-udis-kessler-talks-progressive-christian-ethics/   Josh Packard: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/stuck/   Andrew Root: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/rooted/   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. welcomes Rebekah Simon-Peter, a passionate advocate for reconnecting spiritual leaders with their divine potential to co-create miracles. They discuss the importance of moving beyond mere church attendance to fostering deep spiritual growth and apostleship within congregations. She emphasizes the significance of understanding Jesus from a Jewish perspective and how this can transform our reading of the New Testament. Loren and Rebekah also explore the challenges and opportunities for churches in a post-pandemic world, highlighting the need for spiritual depth and visionary leadership Rebekah is passionate about spiritual growth and the communities it fosters. Over the last eighteen years, she has positively impacted thousands of leaders through her award-winning group coaching program, Creating a Culture of Renewal®. A dynamic speaker and master trainer, Rebekah has engaged and challenged audiences around the country. She is the author of many books including Believe Like Jesus: Rising from Faith in Jesus to the Faith of Jesus (Market Square Books, November 6, 2024), Forging a New Path, and Dream Like Jesus. Rebekah is a wife, sister, daughter, foster mom, mentor, and friend. When she’s not hanging out with family, you can find her journaling, hiking on the mountain, at the gym, or enjoying a good cup of coffee. For more information about Rebekah Simon-Peter, call (307) 333-5990, email [email protected] or visit www.rebekahsimonpeter.com.   https://www.facebook.com/cultureofrenewal https://www.instagram.com/rebekahsimonpeter/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebekahsimonpeter   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!     Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What does it look like to live ethically as a Progressive Christian? In this episode, Amanda Udis-Kessler explores ethics from a Progressive Christian context, emphasizing the importance of loving our enemies and the connection to generosity of spirit as she believes Progressive Christianity is about striving to follow Jesus's path and working towards building a beloved community. The conversation also touches on the complexity of human nature, with the capacity for both tremendous good and terrifying evil, and thus the importance of societal influences to shape our values and actions. Amanda also explores the relationship between the gospel and social programs, highlighting the importance of both spiritual and practical implications of the gospel. She suggests that churches can live out their faith by focusing on cultivating virtues and becoming laboratories of radical hospitality.   Dr. Amanda Udis-Kessler is a sociologist, writer, hymnwriter, and sacred music composer. Pilgrim Press published her book Abundant Lives: A Progressive Christian Ethic of Flourishing this past spring, and Anthem Press is about to release her book Cultural Processes of Inequality: A Sociological Perspective. Amanda is also a core contributor to the anthology A Liturgy for All Bodies: New Words for a New World, and the author of chapters in an additional 13 books. Amanda serves as the accompanist at her church, Vista Grande Community Church United Church of Christ in Colorado Springs, Colorado, and as a hymn text writer for the Rocky Mountain Conference of the UCC. She also develops and leads workshops on topics ranging from creativity to how white people can work against racism. She will lead a session on developing inclusive and antiracist liturgical materials at the 2024 UCC Musicians Association annual conference. Her sacred music website https://queersacredmusic.com has over 150 free-use hymns and worship songs in score, recording, and video formats. Her writing website https://amandaudiskessler.com includes a repository of freely available chapters, essays, sermons, and liturgical materials.  https://thepilgrimpress.com/products/abundant-lives-a-progressive-christian-ethic-of-flourishing-udis-kessler websites and social media: Writing: https://amandaudiskessler.com Music: https://queersacredmusic.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amanda.udiskessler   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!     Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. welcomes Yolanda Solomon, the Director of Discipleship at Epiphany Church in Brooklyn, New York. Yolanda shares her journey in ministry, her love for the Knicks, and the importance of creating a reciprocal discipleship culture within the church. They discuss the challenges of modern discipleship, the pitfalls of fear, shame, and hatred, and the need for a long-term commitment to spiritual growth. Yolanda also provides insights on fostering a community where everyone can contribute to the discipleship process, emphasizing the power of mutual support and the Holy Spirit in transforming lives.   Yolanda M. Solomon is the director of discipleship at Epiphany Church in Brooklyn, New York, where she teaches and creates discipleship curriculum and resources. She has also worked in campus ministry at Columbia University in New York, where she was blessed to serve undergraduate students for seven years. Yolanda is a disciple of Christ, a Brooklyn native, and a lifelong Knicks fan, which richly fuels her prayer life. She lives in Brooklyn with her family. Buy her book here: https://bookshop.org/p/books/discipleship-as-holy-collaboration-helping-others-follow-jesus-in-real-life-yolanda-solomon/20713480?ean=9781514006191   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!     Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

In this conversation, Martha Tatarnic welcomes Rob Hurkmans about his journey in ministry and the lessons he has learned along the way. They discuss topics such as their 20th anniversary of ordination, the faith context in which Rob was raised, his calling to ministry, and his current role at Trinity Streetsville. Rob shares his experience of being an idea person and the importance of slowing down and bringing others along in the process. They also touch on the challenges of personal investment in ideas and the influence of church growth literature. They also explore the role of liturgy in the church and the need for creative and inclusive forms of worship. Robert also shares his insights on leadership models, the need for contextual and collaborative approaches, and the importance of leading through change.  The Reverend Doctor Robert Hurkmans is the senior pastor at Trinity Anglican Church in Streetsville, Mississauga. He is married to Sally and they have four daughters. Rob recently completed his Doctor of Ministry degree in Leadership Development from Tyndale University. Rob was ordained with Martha Tatarnic 20 years ago in the Diocese of Niagara.   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Theology Beer Camp https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistance

Bishop Michael Pryse joins the show to share his perspectives on change and leadership in the Church from his three decades of experience in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada. He has helped the church navigate change, particularly in becoming more inclusive of LGBTQ+IA individuals.  The conversation explores the challenges and pitfalls of the church, particularly in relation to the changing cultural context. It emphasizes the need to let go of the past and embrace new ways of being the church. The conversation also touches on the importance of inclusivity, engaging with newcomers, and breaking down denominational barriers. The hope for the future of the church includes being more conversant with science and technology, promoting equity, and fostering dialogue with people of other faiths. Bishop Pryse leads the Eastern Synod of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada. He attended Eastwood Collegiate and earned a Bachelor of Arts in History and English from Wilfrid Laurier University, followed by a Master of Divinity from Waterloo Lutheran Seminary in 1985. Ordained on June 7, 1985, he served as a pastor in various Ontario communities and later as Assistant to the Bishop of Eastern Synod. In 1998, he was elected Bishop of the Eastern Synod of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada. Bishop Pryse is a strong advocate for Christian unity and ecumenical cooperation. He co-chaired the Joint Anglican Lutheran Commission and the Anglican Lutheran International Coordinating Committee. He has participated in numerous ecumenical and multi-faith delegations worldwide. Inspired by his grandfather's ministry among the Six Nations peoples and his own adoption experience, Bishop Pryse is committed to breaking down divisions within the human family. He has traveled extensively to support global justice, human rights, and inclusivity. He was awarded an honorary Doctor of Divinity by Wilfrid Laurier University in 2011 for his leadership in public, ecumenical, and multi-faith areas. Bishop Pryse and his wife Lois have four adult daughters and nine grandchildren and live in Kitchener, Ontario.   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Theology Beer Camp https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistance  

The conversation between Martha and Callie Swanlund covers Callie's journey in the Episcopal Church, the changes in her Christian experience, her current ministry context, and the inspiration behind her book 'From Weary to Wholehearted: A Restorative Resource for Overcoming Clergy Burnout'. The discussion also delves into the challenges of clergy burnout, the pressure points for church leaders, and the importance of support systems and retreats. The conversation explores the concept of retreat as a means of self-care and the challenges of claiming personal needs. It delves into the SPARK framework, systemic issues in the church, and the future of Christianity. Callie Swanlund shares insights on fostering wellness for leaders and the importance of brave conversations.  Callie Swanlund is an Episcopal priest, retreat leader, spiritual companion, and coach who helps others know their belovedness and find their Spark. Her new book, From Weary to Wholehearted, is a restorative resource for overcoming ministry burnout. Callie is a creative minister and leads individuals and groups in the work of Dr. Brené Brown as a Certified Daring Way Facilitator. Her How2charist: Digital Instructed Eucharist film has reached Christians and curious individuals around the world, and her Wholehearted Wisdom movement invites others into deeper reflection and connection across social media. Callie is an Episcopal Church Foundation Fellow and has keynoted such conferences as: Kanuga Christian Formation Conference, Episcopal Communicators Annual Conference, and Episcopal Camps and Conference Centers Annual Conference. She lives in Philadelphia with her co-dreaming partner Jeremy, their two tween/teen children, and a rescue pup named Rufus. www.callieswanlund.com | [email protected]   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Theology Beer Camp https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistance

In this episode, Martha Tatarnic welcomes Jason Byassee to talk about church growth in a Mainline church context. Jason discusses the importance of churches embracing their own limitations and uncertainties. He emphasizes the need for churches to recognize that their only hope lies in the resurrection of Jesus and to be willing to give away their assets to those who can fill them. Byassee also highlights the significance of funerals in conveying the meaning of life and the role of the church in providing a message that is worth hearing. He explores the commonalities among thriving churches, including a willingness to try new things and a focus on character rather than charisma. Ultimately, Byassee encourages pastors to have hope in a God who raises the dead and to trust in the future of Christianity. Jason Byassee is senior pastor of Timothy Eaton Memorial Church in Toronto, ON. He previously taught preaching and held the Butler Chair in Homiletics at the Vancouver School of Theology. He is author or editor of 20 books on Christian faith, biblical interpretation, thriving congregations, leadership, and church history. Learn more at www.jasonbyassee.com.    Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.   Theology Beer Camp https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Danny Burton - Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer

In this conversation, Professor Alison Milbank discusses the concept of the parish and its importance in the life of faith. She shares her experiences growing up in the Church of England and the changes she has witnessed due to secularization. Milbank emphasizes the significance of the parish as a local community that brings together people of different ages and cultures. She also explores the threats to the parish, including the influence of secularization and the rise of bureaucratic managerialism in the Church. Milbank argues for a return to the core activities of the church and a focus on mission and evangelism. They also discuss the significance of parish buildings as spaces for community engagement and the potential for the parish to address issues such as mental health, social justice, and environmental sustainability. Despite the challenges, she expresses hope for the future of Christianity and the resurgence of faithfulness. Alison Milbank is Professor of Theology and Literature at the University of Nottingham, where she works in the field of religion and the arts. She has had a particular interest in horror fiction from Daughters of the House: Modes of the Gothic in Victorian Fiction in 1992 to God and the Gothic: Religion, Romance and Reality in the English Literary Tradition (2018). She has also published on Dante reception (Dante and the Victorians, 1998) and on fantasy and religion (Chesterton and Tolkien as Theologians: The Fantasy of the Real, 2007). She is also an Anglican priest, currently Canon Theologian and Priest Vicar at Southwell Minster, a cathedral and parish church in a small town near Sherwood Forest. In 2010, with Andrew Davison she wrote For the Parish: A Critique of Fresh Expressions and in 2023, The Once and Future Parish, with six lectures on the book available on you tube at https://www.youtube.com/@sshoxford5856/videos Associated with the Radical Orthodoxy movement, she co-edited Preaching Radical and Orthodox, with John Hughes and Arabella Milbank Robinson. Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.   Theology Beer Camp https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Danny Burton - Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer

In this episode, Martha Tatarnic continues her conversation with Elizabeth Schrader Polczer for the second part of a groundbreaking conversation on biblical scholarship. Continuing from last week, Elizabeth delves deeper into her research on the Gospel of John, Papyrus 66, and the evolving understanding of Mary Magdalene's role in early Christianity. She explores the textual instabilities around the names Mary and Martha, revealing how these edits might have been attempts to downplay Mary's significance as a central figure in the Christian narrative. Elizabeth discusses the viral reaction to her work, sparked by Diana Butler Bass's sermon at the Wild Goose Festival, and the challenges of navigating public and scholarly reactions to her theories. She also addresses how her findings resonate with John scholars and the broader implications for understanding women's roles in the church. This is the second of a two-part episode, so go back and listen to the first half, which can be found in the show notes below. Elizabeth Schrader Polczer is Assistant Professor of New Testament at Villanova University. She holds a doctorate in Early Christianity from Duke University, with a focus on textual criticism, Mary Magdalene, and the Gospel of John. Her research has been published in the Harvard Theological Review, the Journal of Biblical Literature, TC: A Journal of Biblical Textual Criticism, the Comparative Oriental Manuscript Studies Bulletin, and the Journal of Early Christian Studies. She is regularly invited to present her peer-reviewed research at churches and conferences internationally. On Twitter/X: @libbieschrader   Part One https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-ushmm-16554d0   YouTube of Diana Butler Bass sermon  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSH-nfdh_S0&t=5s   Elizabeth's Album: https://music.apple.com/us/artist/libbie-schrader/16720802     Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.   Theology Beer Camp https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Danny Burton - Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer

In this episode, Martha Tatarnic welcomes Elizabeth Schrader Polczer to talk about her groundbreaking work in biblical scholarship, particularly in how we see and understand Mary Magdalene and the Gospel of John.  Elizabeth discusses the textual instabilities around the names Mary and Martha in John 11, visible in Papyrus 66, revealing intriguing insights and controversial edits that challenge traditional interpretations. She shares her discovery of editorial changes that suggest Martha may have been added to the Gospel of John in the second century. This revelation has significant implications for how we understand the role of Mary Magdalene in early Christianity. This is the first of a two-part episode, so be sure to stay tuned next week for the second half. Elizabeth Schrader Polczer is Assistant Professor of New Testament at Villanova University. She holds a doctorate in Early Christianity from Duke University, with a focus on textual criticism, Mary Magdalene, and the Gospel of John. Her research has been published in the Harvard Theological Review, the Journal of Biblical Literature, TC: A Journal of Biblical Textual Criticism, the Comparative Oriental Manuscript Studies Bulletin, and the Journal of Early Christian Studies. She is regularly invited to present her peer-reviewed research at churches and conferences internationally. On Twitter/X: @libbieschrader YouTube of Diana Butler Bass sermon  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSH-nfdh_S0&t=5s Elizabeth's Album: https://music.apple.com/us/artist/libbie-schrader/16720802     Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.   Theology Beer Camp https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Danny Burton - Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer

In this episode, Martha Tatarnic welcomes back Alexander Lang for a deep and insightful conversation. Alex, a former PCUSA pastor, has transitioned from church ministry to a technology business aimed at fostering meaningful relationships. The discussion centers on Alex's recent experiences since leaving his pastoral role and delves into the themes of his new book, "Restored: Spirituality for the 21st Century Rationalist." Alex shares his journey over the past five months, reflecting on the sense of community he misses and the broader implications for society as traditional church communities decline. The conversation explores the concept of the overview effect, inspired by astronaut Edgar Mitchell's transformative experience in space, and how it can redefine our understanding of spirituality. The episode also tackles the challenges faced by 21st-century rationalists in reconciling scientific understanding with spiritual practices. Alex offers a fresh perspective on prayer, emphasizing its potential for fostering deep connections and personal transformation, and highlights the importance of beauty as a spiritual practice and its accessibility in everyday life. Alexander Lang is a former PCUSA pastor who worked in church ministry for 20 years. He has since left the church to pursue a technology business that is designed to help people form meaningful relationships. Alex’s interests include independent film, electronic music and deep conversation with people who question, doubt and want to dig into the most complex issues we face as humans. When he’s not working on books, podcasts or the Restorative Faith Movement, Alex enjoys spending time with his wife and two sons.   Previous Episode with Alex: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-9dxb3-14b9d38   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.   Theology Beer Camp https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Danny Burton - Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer

In this episode, Martha Tatarnic welcomes, Christopher Dawes, a veteran worship leader and musician in Canada.  Chris discusses the challenges and pressures faced by church musicians and the unique role they play in worship. The conversation also explores the individuality and isolation experienced by church musicians and the need for better relationships between musicians and ministers. The conversation delves into the role of music in churches, the challenges faced by church musicians, and the significance of the Summer Institute of Church Music. It explores the power and pastoral potential of music, the overvaluation and undervaluation of music in churches, and the impact of music on the future of Christianity.  Christopher Dawes is a Toronto-based performer, conductor and consultant.  A three-decade fixture of the Toronto music community and frequent collaborator with many of its top institutions, he currently serves as Organist and Director of Music to Rosedale Presbyterian Church, and Artistic Director of the 18-voice a capella Marion Singers of Greater Toronto.  For two decades he has served as Collaborative Pianist and Coach to the graduate and undergraduate instrumental and choral conducting programs of the Faculty of Music, University of Toronto, and as a Director of Canada’s Summer Institute of Church Music.  Since 2018 he has also chaired the Executive of the Southern Ontario Chapter (SOCHS) of the Hymn Society of the US and Canada.  Chris’s graduate work in the area of Music Criticism and musical genre has led to occasional blogging and podcasting under the banner “Ideas About Music,” speaking at conferences, and eventually founding the Celtic-crossover band Chroí in 2013. Web - http://ideasaboutmusic.ca, and on Facebook. For more than 50 years, the Summer Institute of Church Music (SICM) has been helping church music to flourish by hosting a week-long transformative professional development program in July at Trafalgar Castle School in Whitby ON. Church musicians, worship leaders, clergy and choristers study under the direction of world class faculty, and participate in daily worship, workshops, and discussions of current issues facing churches and their music.  Students of all skill levels and denominations are welcomed.   Recently re-located to All Saints' Anglican Church in Whitby, in 2024 SICM is debuting a 3-day, 12-hour program running in-person and online from 12pm-4pm Eastern Time, and will also feature the Final Round of the 26th biennial Osborne Organ Competition.  It remains the only program of its kind in Canada. Web - http://sicm.ca, and on Facebook.   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.   Theology Beer Camp https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Danny Burton - Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer   maJONdxGXAsP797aFA91  

In this joint podcast episode with Vicars' Crossing and Future Christian, Kevin, Rob and Martha talk about why as busy pastors leading churches they carve out time to be part of hosting podcasts. What are the conversations that the church needs to be having? What has been difficult for the church to talk about? What do we see as the value of making time and space for conversations with different voices from a variety of perspectives figuring our leadership in our churches today? What do we hope to offer the church on Vicars' Crossing and Future Christian, and what have we been learning in the process? Vicars' Crossing is a theological and church leadership podcast cohosted by Anglican priests Kevin George and Rob Henderson.  Rob Henderson currently serves as rector of Holy Trinity St. Stephen’s Memorial Anglican Church in Ontario.  His previous parishes have been in the town of Essex and the city of Windsor. Before his ordination in 2008, Rob worked in radio broadcasting in Chatham and Leamington. He has been co-hosting the Vicars Crossing podcast with his friend and colleague Kevin George since 2019. Rob is married to wife Margie and has 2 boys.   Kevin George was ordained in 1997 in the diocese of Eastern Newfoundland and Labrador, and has been a priest in the diocese of Huron since 1998. Kevin has served in the Parish of Labrador West, NL; St Marks by-the-Lake Tecumseh, ON; and is currently the Rector of St Aidan’s Church London, ON. Kevin earned a Bachelor in Education degree from Memorial University of Newfoundland, a Master of Divinity Degree from Huron University, and a Doctorate in Ministry from McCormick Theological Seminary. His thesis research was focused on faithful baptismal response in interfaith settings. Kevin is married to Catherinanne, who is the Director of Campus Ministry at Brescia University, and a chaplain in the Royal Canadian Naval Reserve. Kevin is a loyal Habs fan, prays for the return of Les Expos, and has learned what suffering looks like from being introduced to the Detroit Lions by Rob! Kevin is an avid reader, loves being involved in the community, and enjoys an appropriate adult beverage with friends. Fun fact: In 2019 Kevin preached for 55 Hours without sleep.   The Vicars' Crossing Podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-vicars-crossing/id1439360909   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.   Theology Beer Camp https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Danny Burton - Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer    

Rev. Teresa Hord Owens, General Minister and President of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) shares about the Covenant Project, which aims to increase participation and decision-making in the church, the Church Narrative Project, which focuses on changing the narrative of the church to be more inclusive and anti-racist, and the Proclamation Project, which equips clergy with preaching resources. She also talks about the importance of data gathering and analysis in understanding the state of the denomination. Hord Owens also highlights the importance of theological diversity, staying together at the table, and the need for moral and theological grounding in political engagement. Finally, she emphasizes the role of imagination, the importance of spiritual practice and Bible study, and why we need a more connected church that leverages its resources to do good in the world. Rev. Teresa “Terri” Hord Owens is the General Minister and President of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in the United States and Canada. She is the first person of color and second woman to lead the denomination, and the first woman of African descent to lead a mainline denomination. Elected in 2017, Rev. Hord Owens was re-elected to a second term as General Minister and President in 2023. Her ministry actively reflects the Disciples’ priority of being an anti-racist church, being a movement for wholeness, welcoming all to the Lord’s table as God has welcomed us. Her exhortation to the church is “Let’s be the church we say we are. It is in being who we say we are that we actively bear witness to God’s limitless love for all.” Rev. Hord Owens earned her bachelor’s degree from Harvard University and her MDiv from the University of Chicago Divinity School, where she subsequently served as Dean of Students for 12 years. Rev. Hord Owens’ resume includes more than 20 years of leadership in corporate America leading diverse teams in data management. She serves on the National Council of Churches as the Treasurer of the Governing Board and is a member of the World Council of Churches Central Committee.   Relevant Links http://disciples.org/      https://disciples.org/ogmp/ David Anderson Hooker on the power of narrative   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian' Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer Danny Burton - Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer    

In this episode, Loren and Martha review the highlights of the season and discuss three broad themes: pastoral health, individualization versus connection, and leading change. They play clips from interviews with Kinsie Tate, Jonathan Foster, Ted Smith, Tessa Pinkstaff, Doug Powe, Scott Thumma and more to explore these themes. They discuss the challenges clergy face in dealing with their own issues while ministering to others, the need for support and community, and the tension between individualism and connection in the church. They also touch on the impact of live streaming and online ministry on the church community. The conversation explores the themes of consumerism, leading change, and the Messiah complex in church leadership. It emphasizes the need to resist the temptation to view churches as products and pastors as content creators. The dangers of quick fixes and the importance of discernment and listening are discussed. The conversation also touches on the interconnectedness of different topics in Christian leadership and teases upcoming conversations on the importance of the small and local in the church, flourishing mainline churches, clergy burnout and wellness, and more. Episodes Highlighted: How to Lead Faithful Innovation New Models of Clergy Credentialing Ted Smith Doug Powe Restore-clergy/Kinsie Tate Jay Kim Scott Thumma Justin Anthony     Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian' Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer Danny Burton - Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer  

With the continued decline of churches and denominations, many pastors and church leaders are facing a future filled with doom. In this conversation, Brian McLaren discusses his new book Life After Doom and how the four possible scenarios for the future of our world mirror the reality of institutional church: collapse avoidance, collapse rebirth, collapse survival, and collapse extinction. McLaren emphasizes the need for pastoral care and support in the face of these challenges and encourages individuals to show up for what they love. He also suggests reimagining the Christian faith as a series of movements rather than institutions. McLaren emphasizes the importance of small groups of people coming together to live simpler and more meaningful lives, focusing on conversation and enjoying the beauty of nature. Brian D. McLaren is an author, speaker, activist, and public theologian. A former college English teacher and pastor, he is a passionate advocate for “a new kind of Christianity” – just, generous, and working with people of all faiths for the common good. He is a core faculty member and Dean of Faculty for the Center for Action and Contemplation. and a podcaster with Learning How to See. He is also an Auburn Senior Fellow and is a co-host of Southern Lights. His newest books are  Faith After Doubt (January 2021), Do I Stay Christian? (May 2022), and Life After Doom: Wisdom and Courage for a World Falling Apart, (May 2024). Born in 1956, he graduated from University of Maryland with degrees in English (BA, 1978, and MA, 1981). His academic interests included Medieval drama, Romantic poets, modern philosophical literature, and the novels of Dr. Walker Percy. In 2004, he was awarded a Doctor of Divinity Degree (honoris causa) from Carey Theological Seminary in Vancouver, BC, Canada, and in 2010, he received a second honorary doctorate from Virginia Theological Seminary (Episcopal). Past Episodes with Brian: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/brian-mclaren-on-faith-after-doubt/ https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/do-i-stay-a-christian-with-brian-mclaren/   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian' Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer Danny Burton - Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer  

In this conversation, Tessa Pinkstaff and Dwight Zscheile discuss their book, Leading Faithful Innovation. They define faithful innovation as the adoption of new or ancient practices that help the church connect more deeply with God, each other, and their neighbors. They emphasize the need for leaders to create an environment where the Holy Spirit can lead and for the church to embrace failure as a learning opportunity. They also discuss the importance of cultivating a culture of listening, acting, and sharing. The guests discuss the need for churches to adapt and change in order to connect with people in today's culture. They emphasize the importance of empowering laypeople and creating a culture of deep listening and discernment. They also address the challenges of consensus and the potential for political and cultural tribalism to overshadow the gospel.  Tessa Pinkstaff is the founder of Practices for Life, a ministry that invites people to explore Christian practices as a way to experience God’s presence. She currently leads the weekly Dwelling in the Word online gathering and serves as a project consultant for Luther Seminary’s Faith+Lead. Tessa is a co-author of Leading Faithful Innovation: Following God into a Hopeful Future. She has a Master of Arts in Ministry from Bethel Seminary and is in the process of becoming certified as a spiritual director.  Dwight Zscheile is vice president of innovation and professor of congregational mission and leadership at Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota. He is also a co-author of Leading Faithful Innovation, and has authored several other books. A graduate of Stanford University, Yale University, and Luther Seminary, he is an ordained Episcopal priest and has served congregations in Minnesota, Virginia and Connecticut. Dwight’s experience growing up in a secular home in California has shaped his commitment to helping the church cultivate Christian community with neighbors in today’s changing world. Past Episode with Dwight: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/dwight-zscheile-and-the-future-of-mainline-churches/ URL for the book on faithlead.org: https://faithlead.org/topics/faithful-innovation/ URL for the workbook: faithlead.org/ebooks/faithful-innovation-leader-companion   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian' Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer Danny Burton - Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer

With the breakdown of institutions and denominations, faltering also are the credentialing methods  for pastors and clergy. In this conversation, Jonathan Foster joins the show to talk about Open Table Network, a clergy network that provides credentialing and support for pastors, chaplains, and counselors who have been excluded or marginalized by their faith traditions. With culture moving away from "big tent" institutions to affinity groups, Foster acknowledges the dangers of such but emphasizes the importance of local missional communities and empowering individuals rather than building centralized institutions. He also discusses the trend of denominations splintering and sees the value in smaller, more localized groups. The conversation explores the complexities of ministry credentialing and the challenges faced by spiritual leaders in the current age. It also delves into the theme of grief and the experiences of those who have transitioned out of traditional denominations.  Jonathan is the partner of one, father of three, author, podcaster, lowercase t-theologian with some degrees, founder of lovehaiti.org, and a lover of mountains (oh, and colorado school of mines) and in general, a solvem probler extraordinaire. Find out more at jonathanfosteronline.com   Previous Episode with Jonathan: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/jonathan-foster-on-the-path-of-reconstruction/   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian' Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer Danny Burton - Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer

University Chaplain and Professor Nichole Torbitzsky joins the show to talk about her work with college students, how they are  engaging and identifying with Christianity, and what are the biggest "stumblingblocks" for students as they consider faith. She also discusses as Open and Relational / Process theology, the importance of community and spiritual connection for young adults, and the challenges faced by college students in finding their identity and place in the church. Torbitzsky believes many young adults feel excluded or unwelcome in traditional church settings and therefore churches need to be more accepting and loving towards all individuals, including those who identify as LGBTQIA+. If churches are going to continue to exist, they will need to connect with the next generation. Nichole Torbitzky is Associate Professor of Religion and University Chaplain at Lindenwood University in St. Charles, MO.  Her current research investigates Whiteheadian notions related to Christian atonement theory. She serves as the editor for the Center for Process and Faith's Lectionary Commentary series.  She also serves as editor for Lindenwood University's student research journal, the Confluence. Website: https://www.lindenwood.edu/arts-and-humanities/human-culture-and-society/philosophy-and-religion-ba/faculty/ Instagram: Nichole Torbitzky Twitter: @ntorbitzky   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian' Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer Danny Burton - Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer

Across American Christianity, there is a shortage of clergy, and this is exacerbated by financial struggles, housing issues, and the emotional toll of being a pastor. In this episode, Carol Howard joins the show to talk about challenges and trends in clergy health. She also explored the impact of these trends on younger clergy and the need for the church to invest in clergy support. Howard also shares from her book Wounded Pastors, which explores the concept of Family Systems Theory and its application in helping pastors and clergy navigate challenges and dynamics within their congregations. The conversation also touches on the topics of forgiveness, rewriting personal stories, and the potential for post-traumatic growth in the church.  Rev. Carol Howard (@CarolHoward) is the award-winning author of several books, including Wounded Pastors: Navigating Burnout, Finding Healing and Discerning the Future of your Ministry (Westminster John Knox) and Healing Spiritual Wounds: Reconnecting with a Loving God after Experiencing a Hurtful Church (HarperOne). Carol is a frequent contributor to books, websites, magazines, and journals. She was a regular columnist at the Christian Century where her blog was hosted. She’s a Presbyterian (USA) minister in a village church outside of New York City.   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian' Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer Danny Burton - Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer  

Its no secret that the church as an institution in America is undergoing great change, and with it the role and function of clergy. In this episode, Ted Smith joins the show to talk about the history of formal theological education in the United States, the transition from the standing order to voluntary associations as the primary sociological gathering model, the professionalization of ministry, and the emergence of denominations as we know them. He also talks about the downsides of the professionalization such as clergy being lonely, isolated, and out of touch. Ted also speaks about growing trends such as Christian leaders being formed outside of professional education, smaller and more homogenous denominations, and Mega-churches and micro-churches. Ted Smith is Charles Howard Candler Professor of Divinity and Associate Dean of Faculty at Emory University’s Candler School of Theology. He holds degrees from Duke University, Oxford University, Princeton Theological Seminary, and Emory University. He is the author of three books: The New Measures, Weird John Brown, and, most recently, The End of Theological Education, which reviewers have hailed as a generational landmark in reflection on theological education. He has edited books on sexuality and ordination, contemporary issues in preaching, and economic inequality. Smith also serves as director of Theological Education between the Times and the editor of the series of books that have grown out of that project. Ordained to ministry in the Presbyterian Church (USA), Smith served as pastor to two congregations in upstate New York prior to beginning his doctoral studies.   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian' Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer Danny Burton - Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer  

So, you're trying to sustain a church for continued health... while also disrupting the status quo... impossible, right? Not so, says Pastor and author Doug Powe. In this episode, we talk about his book Sustaining While Disrupting, emphasizing the importance of thinking like an outsider, taking risks, and putting aside convictions. Doug makes his case from the stories of the early church in Acts.  He also addresses the challenges of navigating disputes in the church, particularly regarding issues like women pastors and LGBT inclusion. Doug advises honoring convictions while allowing for change over time. He emphasizes the need for clarity in mission and the reasons behind initiatives, while also pointing out why change fails and the importance of authentic conversations. Frederick Douglas Powe, Jr. is the Director of the Lewis Center for Church Leadership and the James C. Logan Professor of Evangelism at Wesley Theological Seminary. Dr. Powe is an ordained elder in the Baltimore/Washington Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church.  His newest co-authored book, Sustaining While Disrupting: The Challenge of Congregational Innovation, was the number newly released church leadership and administration book. Another recent book, The Adept Church: Navigating Between a Rock and a Hard Place, was the number one newly released church growth book just a month after being released. Dr. Powe is also known for his work in Wesleyan evangelism with titles like, Transforming Community: The Wesleyan Way to Missional Congregations and Transforming Evangelism: The Wesleyan Way of Sharing Faith, both co-authored with H. Henry Knight III.  Dr. Powe is a forerunner in African American evangelism, a few of his contributions include: Not Safe for Church: The Ten Commandments for Reaching New Generations, co-authored with Rev. Jasmine Smothers, and New Wine, New Wineskins: How African American Congregations Can Reach New Generations.  He holds a Ph.D. in Systematic Theology from Emory University (2004), a Master of Divinity from Candler School of Theology (1998), and a Bachelor of Arts from Ohio Wesleyan University (1987).   Doug's socials are: Twitter/X: @fdpjr Facebook: @frederick.powe   Lewis Center socials: Twitter/X: @lewisleadership Facebook: @lewisleadership Instagram: @lewiscenterleadership YouTube: @lewisleadership https://www.churchleadership.com.   Previous Episode with Doug: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/doug-powe-describes-the-adept-church/   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian' Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer Danny Burton - Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer  

Churches and individuals are facing a time of division and uncertainty, as we recover from the Covid-19 pandemic, political discord, and changing beliefs about God. In this episode, Mark Feldmeir delves into the realities of leading a progressive congregation in a conservative community, the innovative responses to the pandemic, and the denominational shifts within Methodism. Mark also shares insights from his book, 'Life After God,' which explores finding faith when one can't believe anymore. He discusses the need for a new way of thinking about God and the importance of embracing the complexities of life.  Mark Feldmeir is the author of five books, including his latest work, Life after God: Finding Fath When You Can’t Believe Anymore. He has served on the Adjunct Faculty at Claremont School of Theology, where he has taught homiletics, and has spoken at various conferences throughout the country on topics ranging from preaching, politics, and pop culture. He currently serves as Lead Pastor at St. Andrew United Methodist Church in Highlands Ranch, Colorado. Mark received his B.A. in Religious Studies from the University of California, Riverside (1990), and his M.Div. from Claremont School of Theology (1993). Mark enjoys cycling, skiing, fly fishing, and camping in his 2002 VW Eurovan. Previous Episode with Mark: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-w4uw5-f882a9   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian' Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer Danny Burton - Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer

In this episode, Ryan Panzer and Jake Doberenz join Loren and Martha to discuss the use of artificial intelligence (AI) in the church. They share examples of how they are currently using AI in ministry. They also discuss the potential and possibilities of AI, including its role as a tool for helping to articulate faith stories and as a productivity booster. The conversation also highlights the importance of preaching and teaching, the caution of embracing AI without replacing human gifts, and the importance of nuance and ethics. They also address the fears and concerns surrounding AI in the church, such as job displacement and the potential for AI to replace human creativity and relationships, utilizing the theological lens of the Tower of Babel and understandings humans as simultaneously saint and sinner. Finally, together they explore the question of consciousness and the ascription of personhood to AI while calling for a continued conversation to discern the way forward. Jake Doberenz is a polymath, identifying as a writer, teacher, minister, and creative thinker. Jake founded Theophany Media, a Christian education company exploring how creativity and technology can help the Church teach the Bible better. He holds two degrees from Oklahoma Christian University: A Master of Theological Studies and a Bachelor’s in Bible with a minor in Communication Studies. His published work includes plays, non-fiction books, and novels, and he has produced podcasts such as Creatively Christian. Get the first chapter of his new book here: https://open.substack.com/pub/jakedoberenz/p/a-simple-theology-of-artificial-intelligence?r=ndnvw&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true   Ryan Panzer is the author of “Grace and Gigabytes: Being Church in a Tech-Shaped Culture” (Fortress Press, 2020) and "The Holy and the Hybrid: Navigating the Church's Digital Reformation" (Fortress Press, 2022). Ryan has spent his career in the worlds of church leadership and technology. He received his M.A. from Luther Seminary while simultaneously working for Google. Ryan serves as a learning and leadership development professional in the technology industry and as a speaker and writer on digital technology in the church. Ryan also serves as the Theologian in Residence at Good Shepherd Lutheran Church in Madison, WI. For more writings and resources, visit www.ryanpanzer.com.  On using AI purposefully: https://churchanew.org/blog/posts/michael-chan-ryan-panzer-ai-for-ministry On the challenges of using AI for ministry: https://www.ryanpanzer.com/post/finding-sacred-spaces-in-a-digital-age On practical uses for AI (preaching, communications, etc: https://www.ryanpanzer.com/post/churches-and-content-how-to-write-better-prompts-for-chatgpt   Previous Episodes with Ryan & Jake: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/jake-doberenz-on-working-for-a-church-that-doesn-t-fit-your-theology/ https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/the-holy-and-the-hybrid-with-ryan-panzer/   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian' Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer Danny Burton - Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer

In this conversation, Liz Cooledge Jenkins shares her journey from growing up in a Mainline Protestant church to exploring conservative evangelicalism and eventually returning to Mainline Protestant communities. She discusses the reasons why many people leave mainline contexts for evangelicalism and the challenges she faced within evangelical churches. She shares insights from her book, 'Nice Churchy Patriarchy: Reclaiming Women's Humanity from Evangelicalism,' and highlights the need for churches and leaders to practice humility and address patriarchal structures in worship and theology. Liz also discusses the importance of inclusive worship, genuine representation, and the importance of including diverse voices. She encourages male pastors and leaders to actively support women in ministry. Liz Cooledge Jenkins is a writer, preacher, former college campus minister, and the author of Nice Churchy Patriarchy: Reclaiming Women’s Humanity from Evangelicalism. She writes at the intersections of faith, feminism, and social justice, and her work can be found at places like Sojourners and The Christian Century—as well as her new Substack, Growing Into Kinship, and her blog at lizcooledgejenkins.com. Liz lives in the Seattle area with her husband and their black cat Athena, where she enjoys hiking, swimming, attempting to grow vegetables, and drinking a lot of tea. Social media (Instagram): @lizcoolj and @postevangelicalprayers   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian' Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer Danny Burton - Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer  

Is your church seeking to advocate for affordable housing? In this episode, Jessica Dominguez joins the show to talk about her work helping churches develop land for housing and what churches can do, big and small to make a difference. Beginning with a 20-year career in public education to a pivotal role in shaping Denver's housing priorities, Jessica recounts the moment that ignited her mission to combat housing insecurity, a call that led her to significant contributions in the housing sector. As the co-director of housing development at Mile High Ministries, Jessica empowers churches to convert underutilized land into affordable housing through the Abundant Ground program, while also co-owning Love Thy Neighbor, a real estate group with a mission to resist displacement. Jessica Dominguez is a Teacher, Faith-Led Affordable Housing Development Advisor and Advocate. In 2019, Jessica took a leave from a twenty-year career teaching public school to research affordable housing solutions and ended up helping to shape the City’s housing priorities as a member of Denver’s Housing Advisory Committee. During that time, she was named one of Denverite’s Who’s Next in Housing.  She is a graduate of the Real Estate Diversity Initiative through Urban Land Institute and helped lead the Congregational Land Campaign of the Interfaith Alliance of Colorado. Currently, Jessica serves as the Co-Director of Housing Development at Mile High Ministries. In this role, she provides churches with education and technical assistance through the Abundant Ground program, empowering them to transform underutilized land into affordable housing solutions. Additionally, Jessica is a co-owner of Love Thy Neighbor, a mission-driven real estate group dedicated to resisting displacement and fostering affordable housing opportunities. Her commitment to addressing housing challenges has made her a driving force in creating positive change within communities.  https://milehighministries-bloom.kindful.com/e/march-learning-lunch   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e65lryK-_mA   Linked in: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessica-dominguez-04753411a/ Abundant Ground:  https://milehighmin.org/abundant-ground/ Facebook MHM: https://www.facebook.com/MileHighMin Facebook Love Thy Neighbor: https://www.facebook.com/lovethyneighborrealestate Love Thy Neighbor: https://www.ltnhomes.com/   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian' Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.

In this conversation, Dave Boden discusses the importance of reaching people beyond the church and the need for a fresh approach to evangelism and discipleship. He emphasizes the concept of belonging before believing and the power of hospitality in creating a sense of community. Dave also highlights the limitations of logic-based arguments and the importance of experiential learning in the process of faith. He encourages Christians to connect with people where they are and to show and tell the message of the gospel through their lives, emphasizing the importance of stirring spiritual curiosity and helping young people understand their identity and purpose. Boden also highlights the need to re-enchant and re-apologetic people. Dave Boden is a creative pioneer and educator. He is the executive director of Grace Foundation, a Christian ethos charity that helps transform young people’s lives through holistic education. Dave was previously the lead pastor in a local church for over a decade and has a well-established background in Christian ministry working on local, national and international projects that have benefited the next generation. He also co-created Kleer Series, a media ministry which helps start spiritual conversations with young people all over the world. A relentless fan of Marvel movies and lover of an occasional muddy bike ride in the English countryside, Dave lives, works and writes in the West Midlands, England with his wife, Leah and their four children. Together, they are members of a relational network called Skylark International and are part of Life Church, Bedworth. Boden is the author of Parallel Faith: Walking alongside others on their journey to Christ and Like or Follow: What every teenager needs to decide about Jesus. Substack is daveboden.substack.com Website is www.daveboden.uk Instagram: @daveboden2 Twitter: @davemboden   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian' Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.    

Pastoral ministry seems harder than ever. Data shows pastors are increasingly feeling burnt out while churches are also less inclined to want to change. What is a stressed pastor to do? In this episode, recorded at Phillips Theological Seminary during the Remind and Renew conference, Kinsie Tate, a licensed counselor and founder of Restore Clergy, discusses the challenges clergy face, including burnout exacerbated by the pandemic, and the common stress responses of competing, avoiding, and accommodating. She emphasizes the importance of self-awareness and resilience for clergy to effectively address personal and systemic issues. Tate also reflects on the limitations of virtual interactions for connection, the alignment of beliefs with lived experiences, and the necessity for clergy to process emotions healthily. She advocates for intentional reflection, community support, and the potential for positive change and hope within the church. Rev. Kinsie Tate is the Founder and Executive Director of Restore Clergy, a nonprofit organization whose mission is to support clergy with programs that improve wellness to cultivate faithful and sustainable ministry. She is a Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor and has a private practice where she has facilitated growth and transformation for clients for over a decade. She completed her Master of Divinity at Phillips Theological Seminary and was ordained in the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in 2007. She served as an associate minister for 3 years prior to returning to complete her Master of Education in Applied Behavioral Studies at Oklahoma City University in 2010. She became a Licensed Professional Counselor in Oklahoma in 2012 and a Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor in California in 2021. She was certified as a Truce Coach in 2022. She lives in California with her spouse, who is United Methodist Clergy serving in a local congregation, and their 3 school age children.    FB: https://www.facebook.com/restoreclergy/  Insta: https://www.instagram.com/restoreclergy/  website: www.restoreclergy.com    Scott Thumma episode: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/understanding-the-impact-of-societal-changes-on-congregational-dynamics-insights-from-dr-scott-thumma/   Irie Lynn Session episode: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/womanist-ministry-dr-irie-session-talks-preaching-the-black-church-tradition-and-womanist-theology/   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian' Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.

In this episode, Rev. Dr. Irie Lynne Session, co-pastor of The Gathering Experience, a Womanist church in Texas, joins the show to talk about Womanism and how it has profoundly influenced her interpretation of scripture and her methodology in preaching. Recorded at Phillips Theological Seminary during the Remind and Renew conference, Dr. Irie discusses her transition from Churches of Christ to the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), her spiritual practices, and her calling to ministry. She highlights how womanism has shaped her approach to scripture, informed her theological perspective, and shaped her preaching. She also tells the story of the founding of her church, which emphasizes Womanist preaching and theology within the Black religious tradition. Rev. Dr. Irie Lynne Session was raised in New York City, and now resides in Cedar Hill, Texas a suburb of Dallas. She's the proud mother of India Liana Session. Dr. Irie holds a B.S. in Social Work from Oklahoma Christian University, an M.Div. with a Certificate in Black Church Studies from Brite Divinity School at Texas Christian University, and a Doctor of Ministry from Colgate Rochester Crozier Divinity School, specializing in Transformative Leadership and Prophetic Preaching. She's an ordained minister with the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) and CEO of DreamBIG Coaching & Consulting. Dr. Irie is currently the Co-Pastor of The Gathering, A Womanist Church in Dallas, Texas. Dr. Irie is co-author of, The Gathering, A Womanist Church: Origins, Stories, Sermons, & Litanies. She is also author of Badass Women of the Bible and, Murdered Souls, Resurrected Lives. Her latest Journal article is titled, “Sawubona in a Pandemic: Black Women, Embodied Ecclesiology, and Sacred Spaces in Cyberspace.” Facebook: @revdririe IG: Revdririe / SheRev_Style Twitter: @revdririe   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian' Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.  

Do you believe you can accomplish what God has placed on your heart? This is the key question Dea Jenkins helps pastors and spiritual leaders through, encouraging them to trust their heart and trust the process, letting go of the results. In this conversation, Dea also addresses the challenges of harmful practices within church institutions and emphasizes the importance of relationships and listening to God, oneself, and the community for guidance. She also shares how she coaches spiritual leaders in discerning God's call and living into the contributions each individual can make to their communities. Dea Jenkins is an award winning interdisciplinary artist originally from Houston, Texas. Dea's art practice spans multiple fields, including visual art, performance, and film. She has exhibited nationally and internationally, and is currently developing multiple multimedia projects. As the recipient of three fellowships and multiple artist grants, Dea has fused her art practice with a deep love for research. She has a dual master's degree from Fuller Seminary with an emphasis in Theology and the Arts. In addition to her art practice, Dea is also an independent curator and the Director of the Inbreak Collective. Her love for creating expands beyond her individual practice to include crafting spaces for others to explore their own creative journey. @dea.artist   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian' Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.   Chapters 07:40 Art and Spirituality in the Church 13:55 Working with Spiritual and Church Leaders 19:13 Commitment to the Big C Church 23:20 Discerning God's Call 31:43 Supporting Leaders in Ministry 35:28 The Importance of Rest and Replenishment 37:01 Not Forgetting the Gift of the Pandemic 39:09 The Work of Cyclical in Supporting Church Leaders 42:29 Closing Questions

Since Covid, most churches have whole-heartedly embraced digital. But what are the effects of the digital age on discipleship, community, and understanding the Bible? In this episode, Jay Kim talks about the intersection of digital culture and the church, emphasizing the importance of maintaining analog, embodied practices within the church to foster transformation, despite the informative nature of digital mediums. Kim describes the sermon as a relational exchange rather than mere content delivery, highlighting the role of the Holy Spirit in the act of preaching. The discussion also touches on the secular ideology of the "imminent frame" and the need to reclaim a sense of enchantment and curiosity in faith. Jay Kim also shares some practical analog ideas for engaging with scripture, such as reading it aloud, to counteract the individualistic approaches. Jay Y. Kim serves as the lead pastor at WestGate Church in the Silicon Valley and on the leadership team of the ReGeneration Project. He has experienced the digital church in all its splendor and writes about it in his two books, Analog Church and Analog Christian. Kim's writing has been featured in Christianity Today, The Gospel Coalition, Missio Alliance, and Relevant Magazine. He lives in Silicon Valley with his wife and two children. Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian' Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.

It's predicted by 2030, an estimated 100,000 church buildings will either be sold or repurposed. With this impending reality, Mark Elsdon asks a key question--will these buildings be gone...for good? In this conversation, Mark compares this shift to the decline of video rental stores and underscores the need for purposeful action in repurposing these spaces. Mark highlights the community impact and explores alternatives to selling, like donations or social enterprises, drawing from his positive experience with property redevelopment at University ministry center. The conversation also touches on the value of preserving sacred spaces amidst these changes. Mark Elsdon lives and works at the intersection of money and meaning as an entrepreneur, nonprofit executive, author, and speaker. He is the author of, We Aren't Broke, about the use of faith-based property and investments for social enterprise and impact investing. Mark’s new book, Gone for Good? Negotiating the Coming Wave of Church Property Transition is available now. Mark is cofounder of RootedGood, which supports catalytic and innovative church leaders working on property development, money and mission alignment, and social enterprise; executive director at Pres House and Pres House Apartments on the University of Wisconsin's Madison campus; principal at Threshold Sacred Development; and past president of the board of directors for Working Capital for Community Needs, an impact investing fund that provides microfinance funding to the working poor in Latin America.  Mark has a BA in Psychology from the University of California - Berkeley, a Master of Divinity from Princeton Theological Seminary, and an MBA from the University of Wisconsin School of Business. He is an ordained minister in the Presbyterian Church, USA, and lives in Madison, Wisconsin. Mark is an avid cyclist and considers it a good year when he rides more miles on his bike than he drives in his car. Previous Episode: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/mark-elsdon-on-why-we-arent-broke/   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian' Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.

In this episode,  Dr. Scott Thumma discusses the evolution of congregational life and denominational shifts, drawing from 30 years of research. He reflects on his personal faith journey and the rise of megachurches, noting their advantages and the challenges smaller congregations face. The conversation also explores the growth of non-denominational churches and the decreasing importance of denominational identity. Dr. Thumma emphasizes the necessity for congregations to adapt to societal changes and technology, especially highlighted by the pandemic's impact on religious practices. The episode concludes with insights into the Hartford Institute for Religion Research's work on contemporary religious trends. Scott L. Thumma is Professor of Sociology of Religion and director of the Hartford Institute for Religion Research at Hartford International University, Hartford, Connecticut. He has published numerous articles, research reports, and chapters on religious life in addition to co-authoring three books, The Other 80 Percent, Beyond Megachurch Myths, and Gay Religion. He has researched and written on megachurches, evangelicalism, gay religious life, congregational studies, the rise of nondenominational churches, and the changing religious landscape. Scott is the Principal Investigator for 5-year Lilly Endowment grant to study the impact of the pandemic on churches. He co-leads the Faith Communities Today national research project and has conducted national studies of megachurches and nondenominational churches. He is also a member of the team that recently conducted the 2020 US Religion Census of US congregations. Scott will also be a guest at Remind & Renew, a conference hosted by Phillips Seminary January 24-26, along with Dr. Irie Lynne Session and musical guest Carrie Newcomer.   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian' Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.

In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, guest host Martha Tartarnic sits down with Justin Anthony, the rector of Chingford (UK) parish, to delve into the nuances of leadership within the church and why our pervasive language around leadership is actually ill-defined and problematic. The conversation aims to invite careful and considered thought about how we talk about ministry in the church and why the language we use has in some important sense failed our faith communities. Justin Anthony is Rector of Chingford parish, and was until recently the Deputy Director of the Anglican Centre in Rome. He has worked in Alexandria, Virginia (as Dean of Students at a theological college), Canterbury (as Rector of a parish in the city), Oxford (as precentor of Christ Church Cathedral), and Cirencester (as curate and team vicar in the parish). He was born in Singapore, and educated there, in Germany, North Yorkshire, the LSE and Oxford. He has written three books as a sole author and contributed to others on issues of church life, ministry, and culture.   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian' Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.

In this episode, Martha Tatarnic talks with Michael Graham, co-author of The Great De-Churching about his journey from a fundamentalist upbringing to a more gospel-centered faith. Graham shares his transition from a focus on end times and culture wars to a tradition that emphasizes the core of the gospel and its implications for life. He discusses the importance of Bible study, healthy discipleship, and interdenominational cooperation, reflecting on his own spiritual practices and the vitality of engaging with non-believers. The conversation also explores the unique religious landscape of the United States, the church's role in society, and the effects of online worship. Michael Graham is program director for The Keller Center. He is also the executive producer and writer of As In Heaven and has written a forthcoming book entitled The Great Dechurching. He received his MDiv at Reformed Theological Seminary in Orlando. He is a member at Orlando Grace Church. He is married to Sara, and they have two kids.   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian' Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.

Guest host Martha Tatarnic leads a conversation with Dr. Amy Frykholm, senior editor at the Christian Century magazine. They discuss the role of media in serving the church, their personal faith journeys, and the mission of the magazine. The conversation also covers the redesign of the magazine, the themes of the Future Christian Podcast, and Dr. Frykholm's hopes for the future of Christianity.  Amy Frykholm is a senior editor at The Christian Century magazine. Her most recent book is Wild Woman: A Footnote, the Desert, and My Quest for an Elusive Saint. She hosts the In Search Of podcast. www.amyfrykholm.com; @amyfryk.    Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian' Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.    

In the final episode of Season 14 of the Future Christian Podcast, guest host/co-host Martha Tatarnic joins Loren Richmond Jr. to reflect on the season's highlights and broader themes.  The conversation includes a discussion on the church's role in a secular age, why sacred space matters, and the importance of maintaining wonder and awe in faith. They also touch on the grief of church closures and the future of theological education. And, in this season of Advent, they discuss the importance of Advent traditions. Stay tuned for the upcoming "Martha season," a special run of episodes over winter break hosted by Martha Tatarnic.    Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian' Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.    

Historically, the church has a tendency to colonize as a means to achieve growth. To break that dynamic, new models need to emerge. Enter DisciplesNEXT, a methodology from Rev. Dr. Jose Martinez and the New Church Ministry Team of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). In this conversation, we talk about how the model emerged, how it seeks to be different from previous models, and what are the "ecclesial minimums" or "faithful marks" of what it means to be a church. He also emphasizes the importance of deep listening, dialogue, and considering diverse community inputs in shaping the future of the church. Rev. Dr. Jose Martinez serves as the Minister for New Church Strategies for the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). Jose also created a ministry as an Incubate participant with the National Benevolent Association called StoryWagen. Additionally, he is co-planter of Multi Nation Christian Church, which is the largest and only Haitian Ministry in the Midwest for the Disciples of Christ and along with planting MissioKC Church. Co-vocationally, he is an endorsed Protestant Chaplain, at the 139th Airlift Wing in St. Joseph, Missouri and a chaplain with Truman Medical Center in Kansas City, Missouri. He has served in different capacities in ministry from the regional level to local congregations by bringing innovative and entrepreneurial ideas about the shifting paradigm of church. His mixture of talent, tenacity, and experience has helped him in all contexts of ministry, which was recognized by the Air National Guard in 2016 by awarding him the Samuel Stone award.   https://newchurchministry.org/introducing-impact/ https://newchurchministry.org/about/disciplesnext/   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian' Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.    

What's the Future of Theological Education? In this episode, Rev. Ulysses Allen, the Director of Recruitment and Retention at Phillips Seminary joins the show to talk about the challenges faced by seminarians, including student loan debt and limited job opportunities. Despite these challenges, Allen highlights the importance of seminary education in providing a foundation for engaging with difficult texts, understanding oneself better, and  preparing people to walk with people during their toughest life moments. Allen also talks about the various non-traditional programs and endeavors at his seminary in order to meet the changing needs of non-traditional students. Rev. Ulysses Allen is the Director of Recruitment and Retention and Candidate for the Doctor of Ministry in Homiletics at  Phillips Theological Seminary in Tulsa, OK. He truly enjoys helping prospective students map out their journey in theological education in the Christian Tradition. His short term goal is to complete his Doctor of Ministry which has an emphasis in Homiletics by the spring of 2025. His long term goal is to continue my pursuit in higher education as a Director, start a non-profit organization geared towards athletic chaplaincy, and become a senior pastor of a church. My philosophical mantra is it's better to serve than be served. Ulysses serves on multiple non-profits boards and at his church.   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian' Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.    

Most Pastors would agree that the American church in the midst of a crisis of decline, as lagging attendance, giving, and influence continue to cause havoc in local congregations. Yet, despite all this, Andrew Root argues the real crisis that should keep pastors up at night isn't shrinking budgets or lessening participation--rather it is the realization that for most people, even many pastors, we can live and act as if God doesn't matter and doesn't even exist. In this conversation, we talk about the three stages of secularism that have impacted American Christianity, what it means to believe that "God is God," and why the only story churches need to proclaim is God's story. Andrew Root (Ph.D., Princeton Theological Seminary) is the Carrie Olson Baalson professor of youth and family ministry at Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota. He writes and researches in areas of theology, ministry, culture and younger generations.  His recent books are Churches and the Crisis of Decline, When Church Stops Working, and The Church After Innovation. Andy has worked in congregations, parachurch ministries, and social service programs. He lives in St. Paul with his wife Kara, two children, Owen and Maisy, and their dog. When not reading, writing, or teaching, Andy spends far too much time watching TV and movies. Previous Episode: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/andy-root/   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian' Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.    

In this episode, Dorcas Chang-Tozun joins the show to  talk about her personal faith journey, her thought-provoking book Social Justice for the Sensitive Soul, and her profound insights on social activism. Dorcas passionately emphasizes the significance of acknowledging the unique experiences of sensitive individuals within the realm of activism, urging listeners to broaden their understanding of what constitutes effective social change. Furthermore, she delves into the complex interplay between anger and social transformation, sheds light on the concept of resilience, and underscores the utmost importance of self-care in sustaining one's commitment to making a difference.  Dorcas Cheng-Tozun is an award-winning writer, editor, speaker, communications consultant, and former Inc.com columnist. She is the author of multiple books including  Social Justice for the Sensitive Soul: How to Change the World in Quiet Ways (June 2023). Her work has appeared in The Wall Street Journal, Christianity Today, Image Journal, and dozens of other publications in the US, Asia, and Africa. She serves as the editorial director of PAX, a Christian nonprofit dedicated to inspiring and equipping the next generation of BIPOC contemplative activists and is a high school instructor of social innovation at Valley Christian Schools. Dorcas has nearly twenty years of experience as a nonprofit and social enterprise professional. She served as the first director of communications for d.light, one of the world's leading social enterprises, and has provided communications consulting for social-benefit companies around the world. She and her entrepreneur husband have been married for eighteen years and have two young sons. Future Christian is supported by: Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian' Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.