Friends, today’s episode is a powerhouse! We’ve got Sharon McMahon, aka “America’s Government Teacher,” bringing some serious wisdom from her new book, "The Small and the Mighty." Even the drafters of the Constitution worried about chaos, but they hoped for better things—and Sharon’s here to show us how twelve lesser-known heroes in American history made a huge impact on democracy. She’s drawing parallels to how we can still shape our future today, no matter how small we feel. Get ready to be inspired, y’all! Let’s dive in! In this hope-filled chat: Jen and Amy muse around which historical figures they would most like to meet and we get a glimpse of their preferred election night routines Sharon highlights the arc of her career from an award-winning yarn influencer known as the Yarnista, to a photographer, to “America’s Government Teacher” We discuss the need for reliable sources of factual information in a world filled to the brim with fake news and disinformation Sharon explains why we shouldn’t sit out during state and local elections We talk about a variety of ways to engage in democracy beyond just voting And Sharon fields questions from members of our audience. *** Thought-provoking Quotes: “We’re all tired, we’re exhausted from the endless partisanship and the fake news and the disinformation and vitriol.” – Jen Hatmaker “I started noticing that there were a lot of people that were just really confidently wrong on the internet, saying things like ‘the electoral college is a university you can graduate from’.”– Sharon McMahon “There’s a big list of people, especially women, who never, ever get the credit when it comes to the civil rights movement – it’s the attorneys, it's the Thurgood Marshalls, it’s the Freddie Grays,  it’s the Martin Luther Kings.,and, of course, what they did is incredibly important but… there are a lot of women with whom this hot air balloon does not get off the ground. There is no leaving the ground without the significant contributions of women.” – Sharon McMahon “We have to stop viewing this as a zero sum game in which our enemies must be defeated or destroyed. That’s an onramp to dictatorship.” – Sharon McMahon “There are many ways to be involved in democracy. It’s not just voting and running for office. There’s not one prescription for how to be involved. Do things you are good at and contribute in your own way. We can’t all be parade goers.” – Sharon McMahon “We tend to put all of our eggs in this basket of who will win the presidential election but who gets elected in your state matters so much. The things that really affect your daily life are defined at the state and local level.” – Sharon McMahon Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Henry Fite House of Baltimore - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Fite_House The Angry Trout Cafe, Grand Mariais, MN - https://www.angrytroutcafe.com/ The Small and the Mighty: Twelve Unsung Americans Who Changed the Course of History, from the Founding to the Civil Rights Movement by Sharon McMahon - https://amzn.to/3NsoqjI Guest’s Links: Sharon’s website - https://sharonmcmahon.com/ Sharon’s Newsletter, The Preamble - https://thepreamble.com/ Sharon’s Governerds Book Club - https://sharonmcmahon.com/products/governerds-insider Sharon’s Here’s Where It Gets Interesting Podcast - https://sharonmcmahon.com/podcast Sharon’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/sharonsaysso Sharon’s Twitter - https://x.com/sharon_says_so Sharon’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/sharonsaysso/ Sharon’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@sharonsaysso Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this engaging conversation, actress, activist, and all-around beautiful human, Yvette Nicole Brown, gives us a lesson on the fundamental importance of joy, the blessings of caregiving, and the significance of community support. Through an exploration of Yvettes’ career, first in the music business, and now in the entertainment industry, she and Jen and Amy discuss the many challenges that face black women today while also talking about one of black women’s greatest superpowers – the sisterhood that exists among them. They lean into how white women can learn to harness that power in their relationships, too, and the things that can be done to support their sisters of color right now. Yvette also reflects on her personal life as a devoted caregiver, and dishes for a moment about the beauty of finding love in your late 50s. *** Thought-provoking Quotes: “I don’t know as a kid that I ever thought that I would be a star. I always felt that I would be impactful in people's lives in some way because of the way that I love people.” – Yvette Nicole Brown “I am still pinching myself. I’m Forrest Gump in the flesh – in real life – because I just say yes to things that feel right and God just takes me to the next opportunity to do the same.” – Yvette Nicole Brown “That’s why black women are always so close with each other because whenever you see a ‘sista’, you know her story, without knowing her story. That’s why we call each other ‘sista’, because we know what she’s been through. Same thing with black men. ‘Brotha’. ‘Sista’. We know what the other person has been through and we stand with each other and support each other. But here’s the thing, we stand with and support everybody else too. And that’s why we say ‘vote like black women, think like black women’. That’s not hubris. That’s not arrogance. That’s heart. That’s soul.” – Yvette Nicole Brown “When it comes to anything that comes up in the news, culture, current events, whatever’s going on, if I feel even a modicum of uncertainty about how to feel about it, I just look to the black women. It’s the correct reading of the room. The response is always for the greater good. It’s what’s good for culture, for people, our neighbors, progress, equality.” – Jen Hatmaker “Instead of me showing you my pain, I’m going to use my joy as my strength and I’m going to dance and laugh through this thing.” – Yvette Nicole Brown Resources Mentioned in This Episode: I Take My Coffee Black: Reflections on Tupac, Musical Theater, Faith, and Being Black in America by Tyler Merritt - https://amzn.to/3U6nMfN Yvette’s acting and producing credits - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1304328/ Kamala Harris for President - https://kamalaharris.com/ How Black Women Organizers Broke Zoom to Raise $1.5 Million - Fortune.com  K-Pops by Anderson .Paak at Toronto International Film Festival - https://tiff.net/events/k-pops Frasier - https://www.paramountplus.com/shows/frasier-2023/ Among Us - https://www.innersloth.com/voice-cast-for-the-among-us-animated-series-round-1/ Donors Choose - https://www.donorschoose.org/ The Creative Coalition Commission on Caregiving - https://thecreativecoalition.org/caregiving/ Emily’s List Guest’s Links: Yvette’s website - http://www.actressyvettenicolebrown.com/ Yvette’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/yvettenicolebrown Yvette’s Twitter - https://x.com/ynb Yvette’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/YvetteNBrown/ Yvette’s Squeezed Docupodcast - https://lemonadamedia.com/show/squeezed/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week Jen and Amy sit down with the charismatic and engaging Stanley Tucci, to discuss his new book, 'What I Ate in One Year', that explores the deep connections we can find amongst the food we eat, the memories we make, and the emotions we feel and how our cultural practices around food can provide fuel for us, not just in times of celebration, but can also provide us comfort in times of grief. Stanley reflects on how food plays a role in both joyous and difficult moments, emphasizing the importance of sharing meals with loved ones, hoping that readers will find comfort and connection through his work, especially in a time when we are all experiencing more loneliness and disconnection. *** Thought-provoking Quotes: "You're such a Renaissance man." – Jen Hatmaker "I like it so much more when we all eat together." – Stanley Tucci "Food is just a part of life, which means it's a part of death too." – Stanley Tucci “When somebody brings me bread, that’s my person. Let’s get married.” – Jen Hatmaker “Even if you’re in a really shitty place, even if the food is terrible, but you’re eating with people that you love, it’ll be a memorable meal.” – Stanley Tucci “I don’t want to eat a well done burger. I’d rather eat an extra side of fries.” – Jen Hatmaker “Eating outdoors makes things taste better. Why is that? I don’t know but the place is crucial…in a weird way. It can change the taste of things.” – Stanley Tucci “We think that in the moment we’re going to remember something forever but we don't. It just slips away. Even just writing your story down for you has meaning.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Stanley Tucci’s new book 'What I Ate in One Year' - https://amzn.to/484rxb2 Big Night (1996) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115678/ CNN Show: Searching for Italy - https://www.cnn.com/shows/stanley-tucci-searching-for-italy Stanley Tucci makes a Negroni for his wife, Felicity - https://bit.ly/4h2L9QW The Devil Wears Prada (2006) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0458352/ Stanley Tucci’s film bio - https://imdb.to/3YgfeW2 Stanley Tucci’s theater bio - https://playbill.com/person/stanley-tucci-vault-0000019856 Taste: My Life Through Food by Stanley Tucci - https://amzn.to/4f08P6Y Guest’s Links: Stanley’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/StanleyTucci Stanley’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/stanleytucci/ Stanley’s TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@stanley.tucci Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Named a best podcast of 2023 by Vulture, Time, The Economist, & Vogue. No question too big, no question too small. On Search Engine, host PJ Vogt answers the kinds of questions you might ask the internet when you can't sleep. If you find the world bewildering, but also sometimes enjoy being bewildered by it, we're here for you. Edited by Sruthi Pinnamaneni. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this month’s Jen Hatmaker Book Club episode, we speak with the author of A Woman of Intelligence, Karin Tanabe. In this fascinating interview, we learn that Karin originally set out to write a book about WWII women code breakers, but ended up turning it into an ode to the struggles of women finding themselves during early motherhood and the imminent right they have to a future chosen for themselves. The story follows a woman in the 50’s who sets out on a spy adventure, departing wildly from her mundane life, and making difficult choices that come with choosing yourself over society’s whims. Jen and Karin personally and candidly reflect on the pressures of motherhood, the erasure of self that can come with parenting full time, and the history that brought us to where we are today. Some topic points include:  The fascinating pivot from Tanabe's original book pitch to the creation of "A Woman of Intelligence" Discussion of rarely-taught aspects of U.S. history, including government-funded childcare during WWII Tanabe’s approach to crafting complex characters, including the memorable mother-in-law The careful construction of the novel's open-ended finale Join Jen and Karin for an engaging conversation that will leave you eager to dive into "A Woman of Intelligence" and reflect on how far we've come – and how far we still have to go. * * * Resources & Books Mentioned in This Episode: A Woman of Intelligence by Karin Tanabe - https://bit.ly/47GdbxI The Sunset Crowd by Karin Tanabe - https://www.karintanabe.com/copy-of-the-list A Hundred Suns - https://www.karintanabe.com/a-hundred-suns Karin’s Booklist - https://www.karintanabe.com/books-w3tou Elizabeth Bentley - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Bentley The Lanham Act of 1940 (Government-Subsidized Health Care) - https://bit.ly/3XS2Uen The Red Scare - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Scare The Cliffs by J. Courtney Sullivan - https://bit.ly/4evbYLG Private Equity: A Memoir by Carrie Sun - https://bit.ly/3Bbgy3w Eyeliner by Zahra Hankir - https://bit.ly/4gDgdqC Guest’s Links: Karin’s Website: https://www.karintanabe.com/ Karin’s Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/karintanabe Karin’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/karintanabe Karin’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/authorkarintanabe Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week Jen and Amy dive deep into the mind of bestselling author and one of the most influential thinkers of the 2000’s, Malcolm Gladwell. Exploring the intriguing concepts behind his latest book, The Revenge of the Tipping Point, the conversation ebbs and flows through Malcolm's ability to turn dense data into compelling narratives, weaving stories that captivate readers in unexpected ways. Jen and Amy key into Malcolm's knack for viewing problems from unique angles, a skill that sets him apart in academic and popular discourse.  Throughout the chat, Malcolm reveals how his perspectives have evolved over the last 25 years and how the nuances of today's world demand a fresh interpretation of the ideas that he first introduced. Their discussion underscores the blend of rigorous analysis and storytelling magic that defines Malcolm's work and leaves a lasting impact on listeners eager to engage with the pressing questions of our time. Malcolm gives us insight into all manner of cultural phenomena, including:  A definition of “overstories” and how they can refine and deepen our understanding of the spread of customs, mores, and practices The advent of “superspreaders:” those very few people who have a large amount of influence, a situation which has shifted with the onset of social media Snippets of fascinating social observations, illustrated in stories from his book including a look at the opioid epidemic, the growing mental health issues of students, and the power of television shows like “Will & Grace,” toward creating massive cultural shifts  * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “The overstory that is over our heads right now that we're not thinking about is one that says the most important way to understand ourselves and our differences from others is to look through the lens of politics. I think political ideology has somehow kind of become central in a way that it wasn't 25 years ago. That's a kind of weird thing going on right now that we're sort of not paying attention to. I'm hopeful that will shift. I would much rather people find themselves using other categories. Because there are other categories that are far more meaningful.” - Malcolm Gladwell "If you look at platforms like Twitter or TikTok, you'll see that a very small number of people have a massive amount of reach. As we examine how we're influenced, it's clear that the sources and individuals projecting influence in the world are getting smaller and smaller — which is weird, because we initially thought the opposite was happening." - Malcolm Gladwell Resources Mentioned in This Episode: What’s Going On by Marvin Gaye - https://bit.ly/3TLRne5 Sunday Bloody Sunday by U2 - https://bit.ly/4gQTdEC Losing My Religion by R.E.M - https://open.spotify.com/track/31AOj9sFz2gM0O3hMARRBx Malcolm’s Book List - https://www.gladwellbooks.com/landing-page/malcolm-gladwell-books/ Revenge of the Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell - https://bit.ly/3XYc7BN Anna Muller - https://umdearborn.edu/people-um-dearborn/anna-muller Seth Robertson - https://philosophy.fas.harvard.edu/people/seth-robertson Will and Grace - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_%26_Grace Guest’s Links: Malcolm’s Website - https://www.gladwellbooks.com/ Malcolm’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/gladwell Malcolm’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/malcolmgladwellbooks/ Malcolm’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/malcolmgladwell/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week, step into the studio (and kitchen!) with Jen and Amy as they have an intimate and insightful conversation with the iconic Ina Garten, a true pioneer in the culinary world who has shaped the way we cook at home. As they delve into Ina's groundbreaking career, from the beloved Barefoot Contessa specialty food shop to the 28 seasons of her cherished TV show, you'll discover the heart and humor behind Ina's success. Amidst laughter and heartwarming tales, the conversation takes a deeper turn as Ina opens up about her new memoir, “Be Ready When the Luck Happens,” providing candid insights into her life, including her early days with husband Jeffrey and the triumphs and challenges that have defined her journey.  Topics include:  Being open to unexpected opportunities can lead to fulfilling paths. The importance of maintaining a sense of humor and lightheartedness on the journey to success and connection. Behind the scenes of Ina’s relationship with her husband of 56 years, Jeffrey, where she underscores the value of strong support systems and partnerships in achieving balance and joy. Whether you're a longtime fan or new to Ina's world, this episode offers a personal glimpse into the life of a culinary legend who continues to inspire us all. PLUS don’t miss Jen and Amy’s discussion about foods they ate as kids that they wouldn’t dare touch now, and the cooking shows that first caught their attention as young wives and moms. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I think that we all need one person and we don't need a lot of people, just need one person who really believes in us. And fortunately for me, it was Jeffrey…He always made me feel like I was smart and I could accomplish anything I wanted to do with no reservations, no judgment. And it doesn't have to be a spouse. It can be a sister. It can be a teacher. It can be a parent. We all need to find that one person who really believes in us. At least that's my experience.” - Ina Garten “I think one of the things that we're always taught when we're young is; what are you going to be when you grow up? And you're not going to be one thing anymore. You're going to do something and it's going to lead to something else, and then it's going to lead to something else. If you decide when you're young what you're going to be and that's it, you're never going to learn anything. I think it's the twists and turns that are really interesting.” - Ina Garten Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Feed These People by Jen Hatmaker - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/products/ftp-book Be My Guest with Ina Garten - https://bit.ly/3TvsfIx Be Ready When Luck Happens: A Memoir by Ina Garten - https://bit.ly/3ZndFqh Strapless: John Singer Sargent and the Fall of Madame X by Deborah Davis - https://bit.ly/3XPOo76 Party of the Century: The Fabulous Story of Truman Capote and His Black and White Ball by Deborah Davis - https://bit.ly/4gvQ6l6 The Oprah Winfrey Show: Reflections on an American Legacy - https://bit.ly/47r1QS1 Tina Turner: My Love Story - https://bit.ly/3Xu76j1 Ina Garten on 60 Minutes - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REyYFeqEKZg An Unmarried Woman - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Unmarried_Woman Ina’s Interview with John Grisham - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ9jYxkbm6s Guest’s Links: Barefoot Contessa (Ina’s Website) - https://barefootcontessa.com/ Ina’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/InaGarten Ina’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOlnd-2UlwJuWcnfEKt28yg Ina’s Pinterest - https://br.pinterest.com/inaofficial/ Ina’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/inagarten/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Leanne Morgan was going to quit her career as a stand up comic and start a hardware store (with a cheese wheel, no less!) before she had her major break in comedy. Making the decision to invest in herself one last time opened the doors to an incredible season and newfound success in the comedy world. Jen, Amy, and Leanne get candid when talking about what it means to be the best version of themselves in their second act of life, and when success comes later, why it can be better than having all your dreams come true at once.  Topics discussed include: Behind the scenes of Leanne’s viral success at 51 Why being yourself is always the best answer to any problem How handling criticism at their ages is so much easier to deal with The cornbread drama — do you add sugar or not? Also; don’t miss Jen and Amy’s discussions before the interview on Taylor Swift drama and FOMO! * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: "Use humor to get through hard times. I think it's the best thing that can ever happen to anybody is to be able to laugh through the bad times and to forgive themselves." - Leanne Morgan "I want [women] to know it is never too late...you're the best you've ever been. You're the smartest you've ever been. It is the best time in your life. It is the best time to start a business. It is the best time to go back to school. I just want women to know that." - Leanne Morgan Resources Mentioned in This Episode: What in the World? by Leanne Morgan - https://www.leannemorgan.com/book Quiet by Susan Cain - https://susancain.net/book/quiet/ For the Love Podcast Episode ft. Jim Gaffigan - https://bit.ly/3Ximuij Leanne’s Interview with Hallerin Hilton Hill - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14xdJyhnLuc You’re Cordially Invited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14xdJyhnLuc Leanne Morgan at the Grand Ole Opry - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFYMFOok5s4 Guest’s Links: Leanne’s Website - https://www.leannemorgan.com/ Leanne’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/leannecomedy Leanne’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/leannemorgancomedy Leanne’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/leannemorgancomedy Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

At the height of her worldly and academic success garnering three Harvard degrees, Martha Beck received life altering news, and discovered that maybe she didn’t know everything. This set off a lifetime of pursuing ways to soothe her nervous system from anxiety and find freedom in a new purpose. In a world where anxiety seems to be spiraling out of control, Martha offers a revolutionary approach to understanding and befriending anxiety. Drawing from cutting-edge neuroscience and her years of experience coaching people through what she calls the “Change Cycle,” Martha shares: The four phases of the “Change Cycle” Why anxiety is on the rise and how it's affecting us all The unexpected connection between anxiety and creativity How to access your own creative genius You’re also not going to want to miss Jen and Amy’s discussions before the interview on embracing the mantra “it’s never too late” and Jen’s incurable attachment to an ancient email address. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: "Hold it [stability] very lightly. Let it go. Because everything is always moving and changing." - Dr. Martha Beck "If you try to speed yourself through the process of letting go, of grieving your losses, of at least giving a really deep, profound, heartfelt farewell to the life you used to have — if you don't go through that process, nothing good is going to come of it. You're going to end up in lifelong therapy." Dr. Martha Beck “There is a sensation deeper than the mind, more profound than anything we could think, and in some ways, far more powerful than emotion. It is a kind of stillness, a connection. I believe that this is what consciousness is. It behaves this way when it is neither us nor a substance. It is a vibrantly alive stillness that pervades the universe, however many there are. And we are part of it; we are indistinguishable from it.” - Dr. Martha Beck "The first step to getting out of anxiety is to recognize that an anxious brain is not a broken machine--it's a frightened animal." - Dr. Martha Beck “The moment you move into a place of compassion, you use your brain very differently than when you’re in an anxiety spiral. This shift frees you to pull your attention away from the anxiety and begin being loving with yourself.” - Dr. Martha Beck "You were born a creative genius. Your mind is so capable of solving the problems that make you anxious, but only if you free that genius. And anxiety keeps it caged." - Dr. Martha Beck Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Dr. Becks Monthly O Magazine Column - https://www.oprah.com/spirit/martha-beck/all Bewildered Podcast with Dr. Martha Beck & Rowan Mangan - https://bit.ly/3zkyic2 The Gathering Room Podcast with Dr. Martha Beck - https://bit.ly/3XquFsV The Way of Integrity Finding the Path to Your True Self - https://bit.ly/3ziwm3F Nisargadatta Maharaj - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nisargadatta_Maharaj NASA’s Creative Genius Study - https://bit.ly/4dSoFAl Wildr App - https://apps.apple.com/my/app/wildr/id1604130204 Guest’s Links: Dr. Beck's Website: https://marthabeck.com Dr. Beck's Wayfinder Life Coach Training: https://marthabeck.com/life-coach-training/ Dr. Beck's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themarthabeck/ Dr. Beck's upcoming book: https://marthabeck.com/beyond-anxiety/ Courses & Retreats with Dr. Beck: https://marthabeck.com/courses-training/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen and New York Times best-selling author, Phaedra Patrick, discuss “The Little Italian Hotel” and how finding a way through heartache can look wildly different from one person to the next.  Phaedra was a self-taught writer who almost gave up on her dream before she had a breakthrough with her runaway hit, “The Curious Charms of Arthur Pepper.” In her darkest moments she always reminds herself, “When I don’t feel confident, I just tell myself that I can always feel determined instead.” With that boldness in mind, she writes novels to make people feel good about themselves and want to connect with others.  Particularly compelling moments between Jen and Phaedra include: Phaedra’s incredible story of teaching herself to write and dealing with rejection in the beginning of her career The author's insights on the challenges women face on putting themselves first Phaedra’s reasoning on the open ending of the book Why connecting with others in warm and gentle spaces can lead to healing * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “When I don't feel confident, I just tell myself that I can always feel determined instead.” - Phaedra Patrick Resources and Books Mentioned in This Episode: The Little Italian Hotel by Phaedra Patrick - https://bit.ly/4fJ92fJ The Year of What If by Phaedra Patrick - https://bit.ly/4drmseX Rise and Shine, Benedict Stone by Phaedra Patrick - https://bit.ly/3X3ugOr The Curious Charms Of Arthur Pepper by Phaedra Patrick - https://bit.ly/3WIQWSw Garden Spells by Sarah Addison Allen - https://bit.ly/3YKUsyA The Authenticity Project by Clare Pooley - https://bit.ly/4fC6XT7 The Love of My After Life by Kirsty Greenwood - https://bit.ly/46SffSQ Phaedra’s Writing Tips - https://www.phaedra-patrick.com/writing-tips Guest’s Links: Phaedra’s Website - https://www.phaedra-patrick.com/ Phaedra’s Instagram - http://instagram.com/phaedrapatrick Phaedra’s Twitter - http://twitter.com/phaedrapatrick Phaedra’s Facebook - http://facebook.com/phaedrapatrick Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Have you ever met someone who’s excited about menopause? It might seem like a rare breed, but isn’t it time we reconsider our relationship with aging? While society often tells us that 50 should look like 30, the reality is that growing older is a badge of honor—even if it comes with its own set of quirks. Menopause, instead of being a dreaded foe, is more like an old friend that invites us to a new chapter filled with wisdom, laughter, and some hilariously unpredictable moments.  Rather than shying away from this natural transition, Cheryl Bridges Johns encourages us to lean into it, celebrating the changes and uncovering the vibrant selves we’ve always been. Through her insightful book, “Seven Transforming Gifts of Menopause,” she illuminates the idea that this phase is an opportunity for rediscovery—like uncovering a hidden treasure chest on a stormy day. As we navigate these waters together, it's easier to see that aging is not the end; it’s merely the beginning of a bravely authentic and empowered life. PLUS an all new episode intro from Amy and Jen who get into a Rant & Rave segment about the joys of permimenopause and menopause that you won’t want to miss. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Women are allowed to age but we are not allowed to mature.” - Cheryl Bridges Johns “We're the daughters of the Silent Generation but our daughters don't have to be.” - Cheryl Bridges Johns “Menopause is a gift to revisit. What did you let go, what did you repress? The uncovering of menopause is like a storm that comes in and you realize there’s a ship where you couldn’t see it before. It was hidden and the storm became a clearing, an uncovering.” - Cheryl Bridges Johns Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Silent Passage - Gail Sheehy - https://bit.ly/4dTE1Ve  How to Survive a Shipwreck: Help Is on the Way and Love is Already Here - Jonathan Martin - https://bit.ly/4gaB5oL  The Wisdom of Menopause: Creating Physical and Emotional Health During Change - Christiane Northrup - https://bit.ly/3TifroB  Jen’s Blog - What’s Saving My Life Right Now: Perimenopause Edition - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/pages/perimenopause-survival-guide Guest’s Links: Cheryl's Website - https://cherylbjohns.com  Cheryl's Twitter - https://twitter.com/cb_johns  Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s election season, and it’s been an interesting ride to this cycle’s moment of truth! Jen and Amy dive deep into the heart of the upcoming 2024 election with the insightful women from Pantsuit Politics–Sarah Stewart Holland and Beth Silvers. The conversation centers around the distinct dynamics shaping this election, along with insight as to why it’s vastly different from 2016; sparking a thought-provoking dialogue about the evolving political landscape.  With Vice President Kamala Harris potentially on the brink of breaking barriers as our first female president, the discussion also touches on the hopes and challenges ahead. Sarah and Beth were participants at the Democratic National Convention in August, and they share what that experience was like, and how it informed their views of the current political terrain. As we look to a potentially historic outcome, Beth and Sarah share practical ways we can engage in the process and build community as we navigate this pivotal moment together. You also won’t want to miss a new GenXcellence segment where Jen and Amy reminisce about their first voting experiences.  * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Humans rising to the moment; that just never gets old to me. That's what politics can really be--including politicians who I know get a really bad rap. But watching them come into a moment they couldn't have expected, watching history show up on their doorsteps and go, all right, let's do it. I think it's just been so exhilarating”. - Sarah Stewart Holland “I could talk all day about all the things that Vice President Harris has done that no one talks about. I have been on the train for years that Biden needed to be a one term president, and that she was an excellent successor to him. And I think it's played out in a really strange way that presents some challenges, but also some opportunities for her. I am thrilled that America is finally getting to have a real introduction to her.” - Beth Silvers “Good governance needs people advocating for really different approaches to legislation, to policy, to issues, to messaging.” - Beth Silvers Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Project 2025 - https://bit.ly/3XqR2jt New York Times Article about Jelly Roll - https://bit.ly/3MrFrKv I Think Your’re Wrong (But I'm Listening) by Sarah Stewart Holland & Beth Silvers - https://www.amazon.com/Think-Youre-Wrong-Listening-Conversations/dp/1400208416 Now What? By Sarah Stewart Holland & Beth Silvers - https://bit.ly/4cOXV2b Guest’s Links: Pantsuit Politics Website - https://www.pantsuitpoliticsshow.com/ Pantsuit Politics Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pantsuitpolitics/ Pantsuit Politics Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/pantsuitpolitics/ Pantsuit Politics Twitter - https://bit.ly/3Xsx32H Pantsuit Politics Substack - https://substack.com/@pantsuitpolitics Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s a brand new season of the show and we are thrilled to have Amy Hardin, Jen’s longtime friend, join us on the podcast for a whole new adventure in laughing at ourselves and learning from our incredible guests.  The Lazy Genius herself, Kendra Adachi, joins Jen and Amy today to challenge our culture's obsession with productivity and time management. Kendra offers a revolutionary perspective: the problem isn't you — it's the capitalistic, patriarchal culture we've all been raised in. Kendra unpacks why traditional productivity advice often fails women and shares a more compassionate approach for managing busy lives.  Whether you're drowning in laundry, juggling work and family, or simply craving a kinder way to approach your days, this conversation will leave you feeling seen, encouraged, and equipped with practical strategies. Discover how to: Shift your mindset from pursuing 'greatness' to embracing contentment Take small, sustainable steps instead of attempting drastic overhauls Adapt your systems to fit your unique life and needs Find freedom from rigid to-do lists and unrealistic expectations Don't miss Kendra's sneak peek into her upcoming book 'The Plan' - it just might change your life! * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: "I thought I just had to try harder or give up. And those are not the only two options, everybody. There's a wide middle between ‘try hard’ and ‘give up.’ And so that's when I pivoted my online writing to this space to the Lazy Genius Ecosystem, as you called it, which is, 'let's be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't. And everyone gets to choose what those things are.'" - Kendra Adachi "I think that we forget that the paradigm that we all live under in a Western, capitalistic, patriarchal society is not one that supports what I'm talking about in many ways. And so, it's hard to do. It's very, very hard because the waters that we live in really do not support this kind of idea. So the problem is not you is what I'm saying. The problem is not you." - Kendra Adachi "Your to-do list is not the boss of you. It's a tool." - Kendra Adachi “93% of time management productivity books are written by men.” - Kendra Adachi Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Feed These People by Jen Hatmaker - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/products/ftp-book The Lazy Genius Podcast - https://bit.ly/4drs4WB The Lazy Genius Way - https://www.thelazygeniuscollective.com/way For the Love Podcast ft. Kendra Adachi - https://bit.ly/3WUZdD7 The Plan by Kendra Adachi - https://www.thelazygeniuscollective.com/theplan For the Love Podcast ft. Emily P. Freeman - https://bit.ly/4cGSRNr Guest’s Links Website - https://www.thelazygeniuscollective.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thelazygenius/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/groups/2548803345149849 Twitter - https://twitter.com/lazykendra Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s an exciting time here at the For the Love Podcast and we are excited to share a brand new season of the show, now featuring Jen’s longtime friend, Amy Hardin! Amy’s been popping into the show all summer, and we’re thrilled to welcome her with an official seat across from Jen for all our upcoming episodes!   And what better way to get to know Amy and Jen together all over again than to bring on an Enneagram personality typing expert to give the nod to their beautiful partnership. Ian Cron, author, podcaster and Enneagram expert weighs in on Jen and Amy’s longtime friendship and gives a peek into how he thinks they will mesh as a podcast duo (tip of the hat to any friendships that are a “three” and “six” combo out there!). They also spend a little time talking about the Enneagram types of their partners—highlighting the dynamics in how different types complement (and sometimes clash with) each other.  If you’re not familiar with the Enneagram, you’re going to be fascinated, and if you are, you’ll love hearing Ian’s incredible insight into many of the 9 personality types. PLUS, Ian for the very first time on any podcast, talks about his brand new book “The Fix: How the Twelve Steps Offer a Surprising Path of Transformation for the Well-Adjusted, the Down-and-Out, and Everyone In Between.” * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “What I love about Enneagram sixes is; you are practical, loyal, and very witty—in a wry, wonderful way. Your humor comes out as being very self-deprecating. Then sometimes, when you're on autopilot, you default to a lot of questioning and self-doubting, and sometimes you'll be seen as being skeptical or anxious.” - Ian Morgan Cron “What determines the health of a relationship has to do with how much self-awareness each of the two people in it have. So two types of people of any Enneagram type or combination can be great with each other to the degree that they're self-aware and they're doing their own personal work.” - Ian Morgan Cron “I think the friendship exchange between an Enneagram three and a six is really interesting and beautiful. The three’s ambition and drive are tempered by the six’s caution and loyalty.” - Ian Morgan Cron “People ask me all the time; are there two Enneagram types that really go better together than other types? I'm like--it's all about how self-aware you are. Any two types can do great together to the degree they're doing their work and sharing the journey of self-discovery.” - Ian Morgan Cron Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the Love of The Enneagram - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-27/ For the Love Episode on Enneagram Fours ft. Ian Cron - https://bit.ly/3Aa6oPU Jen Hatmaker Book Club Podcast Episode ft. Hillary McBride - https://bit.ly/3AvW4lL For the Love Encore Episode ft. Bessel van Der Kolk - https://bit.ly/3YzyRcg The Story of You by Ian Cron - https://bit.ly/46FWbam The Fix It by Ian Cron - https://bit.ly/3WzFYyK The Road Back to You by Ian Cron - https://bit.ly/4dejnPf The Last Blockbuster - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8704802/ Find out your Enneagram type here: https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/ Typology with Ian Morgan Cron - https://www.typologypodcast.com/ Guest’s Links: Ian's Website - https://ianmorgancron.com/ Ian's Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/IanMorganCron/ Ian's Twitter - https://twitter.com/ianmorgancron?lang=en Ian's LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ianmorgancron Ian's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ianmorgancron/?hl=en Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen and her longtime friend, Amy Hardin, return together to introduce this previous interview with Jennifer Garner that was one of For the Love’s top downloaded episodes of all time. Jen and Amy chat about their favorite Jennifer Garner projects and how impressed they are with her activism and philanthropic work. In the interview itself, Jennifer Garner shares how she navigates life as a mom, an entrepreneur, and an actress. So many of us have followed Jen's career through TV & film, but she takes us back to the early days when she fell in love with theater, doing auditions in New York while she slept on the floor of a friend’s home who offered a place to lay her head. We also find out that her first job was working with Melissa Gilbert (Laura Ingalls of Little House on the Prairie fame) and how that eventually led to working with J.J. Abrams in Felicity, who then cast her in her breakout role as the star of Alias. The two Jens discuss everything from what it’s like to raise kids as they transition from littles to bigs and what eventually drove Jen’s pursuits outside of Hollywood to co-found Once Upon a Farm and become involved with Save the Children.  * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Change is hard. I mean, I have a tendency to, or I did when I was younger, where I leapt into living in New York before I thought about living in New York. And then I leapt into moving to LA, and then had to absorb that, wait a minute, I just left this all. That was a big transition for me, because I didn't realize I had built a community for myself in New York.” - Jennifer Garner     “I hunted down what organization was really doing work in rural America and Save the Children was all over the world. Our whole global goal is to help kids where no one wants to go and where no one's helping them. So we are in Afghanistan, we're always in the middle of the Ebola crisis, we're always in the middle of helping kids as they're leaving Syria. And we're in those refugee camps and we're in disasters, and we are hand in hand with the Red Cross, and just one of the leading organizations helping kids in the whole world. And in the US, the work is so beautiful. And it's almost unknown, because we're in the little tucked away corners.” - Jennifer Garner   “I think food insecurity and poverty in America, it's a little bit invisible, because we want it to be. We choose what we look at. And so, it is, in some ways, easier to look across the globe and see it somewhere else in a country that is so different than ours or with such obvious distinctions. But the food insecurity in America is high, high, high.” - Jen Hatmaker  “You know what I love? I love any community. I just like to be in a community.” - Jennifer Garner   “What is saving my life right now? I mean, I can’t imagine it ever being anything other than girlfriends.” - Jennifer Garner  Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Once Upon a Farm - https://onceuponafarmorganics.com/pages/jens-farm Save the Children - https://bit.ly/4dnOuHM 13 Going on 30 - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0337563/ The Last Thing He Told Me - https://bit.ly/4d9wEbK Love, Simon - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5164432/ Guest’s Links: Jennifer’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jennifer.garner/?hl=en Jennifer’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/thejengarner?lang=en Jennifer’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/JenniferGarner/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen and her longtime friend, Amy Hardin, are back together to introduce this interview with Kate Bowler that originally aired as a premium channel episode. They examine the ways a “toxic positivity” mindset and a misguided understanding of “blessings” can harm relationships and culture. If you’ve ever felt your soul drag to the ground after reading a #blessed post on Instagram, there’s relief for you here. Kate Bowler shows us a gentler way to look at the concept of blessings, so that someone else’s #blessing doesn’t feel like our #fail.  In the interview, Jen and Kate talk about:  A brief history of the prosperity gospel in America and the origins of toxic positivity The original definition of “blessing” from the Bible The absurdity of life and how tragedy can feel when watching other people’s happiness What the point of praying is Kate tries out being a late night radio DJ and shares a blessing she wrote specifically for our podcast * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “[Toxic positivity] is the overemphasis, the bright siding of truth to the point where you can't be honest. You can't really say what's going on.” - Kate Bowler “There is frankly almost no relationship between people's lives working out and whether they are fundamentally good and lovable by God among other people, period.” - Kate Bowler  “I was in a waiting room the other day looking over at two people absolutely cracking each other up over an oxygen machine. And I felt the flicker of the tragic comedy of the world, and I was like, ‘Yep, that is a little blessing.’” - Kate Bowler “Such a weird moment when your life is in tatters and then you just see somebody walking their dog. You're like, ‘What are you doing? How is that happening? Why are you laughing?’” - Jen Hatmaker “The more we take what we think we know, and then we just rearrange it a bit, it offers us a chance to see something.” - Kate Bowler Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Blessed: A History of the American Prosperity Gospel by Kate Bowler - https://bit.ly/46ynpPX The Lives We Actually Have, 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days by Kate Bowler - https://bit.ly/4ftQOie Everything Happens for a Reason and Other Lies I've Loved by Kate Bowler -  https://bit.ly/46DRopS For the Love episode with Maggie Smith - https://bit.ly/4fwTfR4 Have a Beautiful Terrible Day by Kate Bowler - https://bit.ly/4cdiS6T Guest’s Links: Kate’s Website: https://katebowler.com/ Kate’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/katecbowler  Kate’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/katecbowler/  Kate’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/katecbowler  Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s an exciting time here at the For the Love Podcast and we are excited to share a brand new season of the show, now featuring Jen’s longtime friend, Amy Hardin! Amy’s been popping into the show all summer, and we’re thrilled to welcome her with an official seat across from Jen for all our upcoming episodes!   And what better way to get to know Amy and Jen together all over again than to bring on an Enneagram personality typing expert to give the nod to their beautiful partnership. Ian Cron, author, podcaster and Enneagram expert weighs in on Jen and Amy’s longtime friendship and gives a peek into how he thinks they will mesh as a podcast duo (tip of the hat to any friendships that are a “three” and “six” combo out there!). They also spend a little time talking about the Enneagram types of their partners—highlighting the dynamics in how different types complement (and sometimes clash with) each other.  If you’re not familiar with the Enneagram, you’re going to be fascinated, and if you are, you’ll love hearing Ian’s incredible insight into many of the 9 personality types. PLUS, Ian for the very first time on any podcast, talks about his brand new book “The Fix: How the Twelve Steps Offer a Surprising Path of Transformation for the Well-Adjusted, the Down-and-Out, and Everyone In Between.” * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “What I love about Enneagram sixes is; you are practical, loyal, and very witty—in a wry, wonderful way. Your humor comes out as being very self-deprecating. Then sometimes, when you're on autopilot, you default to a lot of questioning and self-doubting, and sometimes you'll be seen as being skeptical or anxious.” - Ian Morgan Cron “What determines the health of a relationship has to do with how much self-awareness each of the two people in it have. So two types of people of any Enneagram type or combination can be great with each other to the degree that they're self-aware and they're doing their own personal work.” - Ian Morgan Cron “I think the friendship exchange between an Enneagram three and a six is really interesting and beautiful. The three’s ambition and drive are tempered by the six’s caution and loyalty.” - Ian Morgan Cron “People ask me all the time; are there two Enneagram types that really go better together than other types? I'm like--it's all about how self-aware you are. Any two types can do great together to the degree they're doing their work and sharing the journey of self-discovery.” - Ian Morgan Cron Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the Love of The Enneagram - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-27/ For the Love Episode on Enneagram Fours ft. Ian Cron - https://bit.ly/3Aa6oPU Jen Hatmaker Book Club Podcast Episode ft. Hillary McBride -  https://bit.ly/3AvW4lL For the Love Encore Episode ft. Bessel van Der Kolk - https://bit.ly/3YzyRcg The Story of You by Ian Cron - https://bit.ly/46FWbam The Fix It by Ian Cron - https://bit.ly/3WzFYyK The Road Back to You by Ian Cron - https://bit.ly/4dejnPf The Last Blockbuster - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8704802/ Find out your Enneagram type here: https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/ Typology with Ian Morgan Cron - https://www.typologypodcast.com/ Guest’s Links: Ian's Website - https://ianmorgancron.com/ Ian's Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/IanMorganCron/ Ian's Twitter - https://twitter.com/ianmorgancron?lang=en Ian's LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ianmorgancron Ian's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ianmorgancron/?hl=en Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As part of our summer series of re-airing the best of “For the Love,” we also have Jen’s long time friend, Amy Hardin, joining Jen to introduce this episode that was originally aired on the premium channel. In this new episode, we’ll hear about Jen and Amy’s summer so far and what constitutes guilty pleasure TV binges. True crime might be considered a guilty pleasure, but if you haven’t done a deep dive into the genre, then this will be an eye opening conversation for you. We’ve got an amazing guest who is here to talk about the true crime podcast phenomenon, and she’s one of the folks that really put it on the map — Ashley Flowers, the host of the wildly popular podcast, Crime Junkies.  Ashley Flowers and her co-host Brit have spent years researching, analyzing, and solving cases. And with over 1 billion downloads, it’s easy to say they are pretty good at what they do. Jen and Ashley get into how Crime Junkies got started, their thoughts on why the true crime genre is so popular and how Ashely’s using the platform to educate as well as entertain. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I was looking for something specific, and the way we tell the stories was all based on me as the fan, not coming into a genre and being like, ‘It's popular. What can I do to make it successful?’ It was, ‘What would I really care about?’ And I think that's been the success of this show, as it comes from such a genuine place.” – Ashley Flowers  “I founded a nonprofit called Season of Justice that's all about funding testing for law enforcement. We pay the labs directly so we can do this advanced testing. Because I found in my work and the more I talk to families, the more I talk to law enforcement, one of the barriers over and over again was just finances. And that's where I was like, ‘I can fix that.’" – Ashley Flowers   “If you're truly invested in the community, there are so many different ways you can get involved and use your own talents to make a real difference and help solve these cases. I'm a storyteller, I'm a business owner, and now I'm solving murders.” – Ashley Flowers  Guest’s Links: All Good People Here by Ashley Flowers - ​​https://www.amazon.com/All-Good-People-Here-Novel/dp/0593496477  Ashley’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ashleyflowers/?hl=en  Crime Junkie’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/crimejunkiepodcast/?hl=en  Season of Justice - https://seasonofjustice.org  Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://Jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/Jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/JenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/Jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Móni Guzmán came to the US from Mexico with her family many decades ago. In the past two presidential elections, her parents voted for Trump while she voted for Clinton and Biden. This created the kind of tension that must be managed very carefully. Fortunately, and relatedly, Móni has professional experience with difficult conversations in her capacity as a senior fellow at Braver Angels. We lean heavily on the ideas in Móni’s book, I Never Thought of It That Way, in this episode and throughout our 5-part series on getting along: Rupture + Repair. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s been two years since Roe v. Wade was overturned by the Supreme Court. As the power to rule over women’s reproductive rights reverts to the states, we are seeing many move toward vast limitations of reproductive choices, including bans on terminating pregnancies, but also devastating impediments toward the processes that have helped those who are struggling with infertility have a chance to conceive. To open up this conversation and really delve into what this decision means, we have Jen’s longtime friend Amy Hardin joining the pod. As women who lived their childbearing years under the protections of Roe v. Wade, Jen and Amy discuss what the aftermath will look for the next generation of women.  Later on the show, we’ll feature an interview with Dr. Natalie Crawford, a Reproductive Endocrinology & Infertility Specialist in Austin, TX who really helps us break down all the salient issues. Dr. Crawford sensitively approaches all the repercussions of not having a safe way for a woman to terminate a pregnancy that many of us may not have even considered. Wherever you stand on the issue of abortion, these conversations show the ripple effect this decision has had on women’s ability to make health choices for themselves and how it affects women who do wish to conceive and the hurdles they will now face. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Reproductive care doesn't exist in silos. Abortion access is just one part of the triangle of reproductive care. And fertility care is on one end and gynecological care and OB/GYN care is on the other, but they all exist together, for a variety of reasons.” – Dr. Natalie Crawford  “You could die in pregnancy even though you have zero risk factors. We know that this happens. And so when we start assigning the idea that reproductive choice or ending a pregnancy is morally bad because you're killing a baby or a fetus, what we're really doing is devaluing the life of that mother who's carrying the baby because at any moment it could go a way that could turn lethal.” – Dr. Natalie Crawford  “We have allowed politics to infiltrate medicine and people are getting cared for differently because of the current political world. That should terrify anybody who knows somebody in their life with a uterus, that really should terrify you.” – Dr. Natalie Crawford  “Black women have three to four times the chance of dying in childbirth, even when controlled for proper prenatal care or socioeconomic class, meaning even if you are educated and you have access to care, the color of your skin is a contributing factor to you walking out of childbirth alive. That is devastating.” – Dr. Natalie Crawford  “You're either a fan of reproductive care and you respect the fact that people deserve the integrity to make their choices with their medical professionals and their loved ones, or you don't.” – Dr. Natalie Crawford Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.nataliecrawfordmd.com  Fora Fertility - https://www.forafertilityaustin.com  Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/nataliecrawfordmd/  Twitter - https://twitter.com/ncrawfordmd  Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://Jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/Jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/JenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/Jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re bringing back one of our most popular episodes ever on the pod - featuring “The Body Keeps the Score” author Dr. Bessel van der Kolk. And for a fun NEW take on the episode, Jen Hatmaker has asked one of her best friends, Amy Hardin, to join her to discuss their thoughts on this episode! Listen as Jen and Amy discuss their meet cute and then wade into the episode which delves into the relationship between trauma and the body, relating their personal experiences around this.  Dr. Van Der Kolk is a psychiatrist, author, researcher and author of the book The Body Keeps The Score. He has spent most of his career researching the causes of post traumatic stress, and is continuing to come away with groundbreaking discoveries about the power of our bodies to protect and shield us. Dr. Van Der Kolk brings us to the intersection of embodiment, mental well-being, and neuroscience and examines how we can understand our bodies’ response to trauma so we can embrace our healing. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “People think about trauma as that thing that happened a long time ago. But that's not the issue, because that thing is over. It happened last year or 10 years ago, it's not happening today. But the traces that it leaves inside of you, are happening now.” - Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk  “When you're traumatized, you try to not have all the sensations and feelings, and you turn on music loudly, or you drink or you take drugs, to make those feelings go away. And then to experience your feelings becomes very difficult.” - Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk  “The most elementary thing is breathing. Our breath is the one thing in our body that happens whether we want it or not. And we can learn to breathe differently. So there's a physiological function that gives us access to some core pieces of ourselves, where you slow down your breath, you focus on breath, you activate your parasympathetic nervous system, and you do become calmer. That's where you start.” - Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk   “You cannot take care of yourself unless you accept yourself for who you are.” - Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk  “When you're traumatized, one thing becomes another thing. So to open that up, and open up the mind to new possibilities is incredibly important.” - Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Body Keeps The Score by Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk - https://bit.ly/3zyCVPk Guest’s Links: Dr. Van Der Kolk’s Website - https://www.besselvanderkolk.com Dr. Van Der Kolk’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/thebodykeepsthescore Dr. Van Der Kolk’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thebodykeepsthescore/ Dr. Van Der Kolk’s YouTube - https://bit.ly/3RZpoa8 Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Kirsten Powers is a tenured news analyst who lived inside our modern age’s belly of the beast — 24-Hour Network News. Kirsten Powers lived and breathed as a senior news analyst at Fox News and then CNN for years. Eventually, she hit a breaking point and realized living full throttle, enraged about the state of the world, wasn't doing her or anyone she loved any favors. She pulled back and began examining what it would be like if she stayed engaged in political news but also still centered and compassionate. Through her examination, she wrote an entire book about how to embrace grace and disengage from inflammatory discourse called “Saving Grace: Speak Your Truth, Stay Centered, and Learn to Coexist with People Who Drive You Nuts.” If you need some advice on how to balance that tightrope walk of being informed and actionable but not totally defeated by the litany of bad news, please join Jen and Kirsten as they determine what grace looks like when the world feels culturally and politically on fire.  * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I feel like what our culture is missing is grace. We don't have grace for each other, and I don't have grace for people, and I don't think other people have grace for people, for the most part. And I think it's because we don't really understand grace.” - Kirsten Powers “When you call things out, you need to call it behavior. You need to say, "You're doing X, Y, and Z, and this is a problem," versus, "You are X, Y, and Z, and you are a problem.” - Kirsten Powers “Boundaries were really hard for me. And one of the things that I discovered was, I think I thought of boundaries as almost aggressive. You're keeping people out, and that's not actually what they are. You're actually letting people know how to be in a relationship with you. So it's actually an act of grace, right?” - Kirsten Powers Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Richard Rohr on FTL Podcast: https://jenhatmaker.com/podcast/series-16/live-yourself-into-a-new-way-of-thinking-richard-rohr/ Saving Grace: Speak Your Truth, Stay Centered, and Learn to Coexist with People Who Drive You Nuts https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/saving-grace-kirsten-powers/1138990768?ean=9780593238233 Fierce, Free and Full of Fire: The Guide to Being Glorious You https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/fierce-free-and-full-of-fire-jen-hatmaker/1132184307?ean=9780718088163&aug=1 Kirsten’s Substack Newsletter: https://kirstenpowers.substack.com/ For the Love of the Enneagram (Jen’s podcast series on the Enneagram): https://jenhatmaker.com/podcast/series/series-27/ Guest’s Links: Kirsten’s Website: https://kirstenpowers.com/ Kirsten’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kirstenpowers10/  Kirsten’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/KirstenPowers/ Kirsten’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/KirstenPowers Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bestselling author, R. Eric Thomas, wrote “Here for It” in 2020 and it continues to reverberate in the hearts and minds of readers because of its timely topics and riveting personal story—making it a perfect “revisit” for our book club community! With humor and vulnerability, Eric shares about his memoir which is equal parts hilarity and heart–and what it took to write about his intersecting identities as a Black, queer, Christian man. Join Jen and Eric as they traverse transforming the ordinary into the profoundly funny and insightful. Book Summary: In his memoir of essays “Here for It,” Eric attempts to define what it means to be an “other” through his experience growing up in two very different worlds — the urban landscape of his parents home in Baltimore and then the wealthy, white suburb where he went to private school. He tries to figure out how to reconcile all of this, not just these two wildly different racial and class spaces, but also his Christian upbringing with his sexuality as a gay man; the exhaustion of code switching; accidentally finding internet fame; covering the 2016 election and all of that aftermath. Ultimately, he is seeking to answer whether the future is worth it when everything seems to be getting worse. He re-envisions what could be by placing himself at the center of his own story and sharing his experiences with us. * * * Guest’s Links: R. Eric Thomas’s Website - https://rericthomas.com/ R. Eric Thomas’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/oureric/ R. Eric Thomas’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/oureric R. Eric Thomas’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/R.Eric.T/ Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Here for It or How to Save Your Soul in America by R. Eric Thomas - https://bit.ly/3KFKdTV The Preacher’s Wife - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Preacher%27s_Wife Congratulations, The Best Is Over by R. Eric Thomas - https://bit.ly/3RdAY1E Kings of Baltimore by R. Eric Thomas - https://bit.ly/3PxKvQ4 Dickinson (TV Series) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8518136/ Better Things (TV Series) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4370596/ The Moth - https://bit.ly/3Vl3YFb Andre DeShields - https://www.andredeshields.com/ Clue (The 1985 Movie) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clue_(film) Amy Dickinson - https://amydickinson.com/ R. Eric Thomas’s Here For It  News Letter - https://letter.rericthomas.com/ Maxine Waters - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxine_Waters  Ann Patchett - http://www.annpatchett.com/ Festival of Homiletics - https://festivalofhomiletics.com/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/  Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/  Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our guest this week is bringing core insights into the kitchen so that everyone can:  a.) enjoy cooking and b.) turn it from a massive chore to a bright spot in your day. Author, blogger and “accidental cook” Bri McKoy is here, talking with Jen about the best practices and advice on how to become the kind of cook you want to be for your own life. Drawn from her essential cookbook, “The Cooks Book: Recipes for Keeps and Essential Techniques to Master Everyday Cooking,” Bri wants to share what she’s learned in her kitchen so that everyone’s kitchen can become a place of confidence and joy.   Jen and Bri dish on:  Why it matters where you put things in your kitchen—and how small changes can make a big impact The Forever Grocery list, is Bri’s tried and true list of things you should always have on hand in your kitchen so that you limit your time shopping and planning Bri’s Kitchen Techniques - simple rules that help us make decisions in the kitchen What you need to know about pairing the right wine with the right foods and how to stock your bar with the essentials If there’s more cooking in your life this summer with kids at home, guests coming to visit, or budget-conscious cooking when traveling, this relatable episode will give you the tools you need to de-stress your kitchen and make it a place for great food and great fun! * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I come from a background of I didn't like cooking. I didn't wanna be in the kitchen. Every aspect of it, from the grocery shopping to the cleaning to the prepping was the worst. Then, when I started to learn how to cook, I became so much more joyful and less stressed out.” - Bri McKoy “I have this arsenal of these five basic things. That means I have become confident and joyful in the kitchen. I teach those tips, tricks, techniques, recipes so that other people can feel like even if they depart from my cookbook, they will have success with every other recipe they try.” - Bri McKoy “I always say that a sauce can make a meal. Like give it a glow up” - Bri McKoy Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Cooks Book: Recipes for Keeps and Essential Techniques to Master Everyday Cooking - https://bit.ly/3DQg6Ws Cooking MeCourse ft. Jen and Bri - https://jenhatmaker.com/me-course/cooking/  Feed These People (Jen’s cookbook) - https://jenhatmaker.com/feed-these-people/  The Joy of Cooking (Cookbook) - https://bit.ly/3YpPbdv  Country Crock Buttery Spread - https://bit.ly/3OrCRER  Wine & Spirit Education Trust - https://bit.ly/3OMZPb1 Come and Eat: A Celebration of Love and Grace Around the Everyday Table (Bri’s Latest Cookbook) - https://bit.ly/3qqt89T Guest’s Links: Bri’s Website - https://oursavorylife.com/  Bri’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/brimckoy  Bri’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/brimckoy  Bri’s Pinterest - https://www.pinterest.com/brimckoy/  Bri’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/brimckoy/  Bri’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNkSDrh24WkP4HQbCfnPtwA? Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Do you struggle to feel truly at home in your body? We’re here to tell you; that it is possible. Our episode this week is a topic we return to often because we just can’t hear it enough; how we can heal our connections to our bodies. We have author and embodiment expert, Prentis Hemphill on the show, and she and Jen explore the idea of healing through embodied practices.  Prentis shares poignant insights from their work in the Black community processing racial trauma through reconnecting to embodied cultural practices. Here’s another piece of good news–when you heal your connection to your body, you present a vision of embodied healing that radiates outward - from ourselves to our communities. That in turn can transform oppressive cultures through grounded love. The possibilities are endless when we take agency over our bodies! Jen and Prentis discuss: the definitions of somatic practices and embodied healing the role of embodiment in individual healing, processing trauma, and developing resilience the connection between individual embodied healing work and the potential for broader cultural/societal healing and transformation the lack of short-term optimism for societal change, but how unshakable faith rooted in human connection and community will eventually turn the tide * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes; "Somatics is the study of how our experiences and traumas live in the body. It's also a story of how our bodies can be resilient." - by Prentis Hemphill "I think, generally, the times I feel most free are when I'm with my people and feel fully accepted and loved. When we're eating or dancing or we're cracking up and falling off the couch is when my body feels the absolute freest — when I'm in a loving community." - by Prentis Hemphill "I love embodiment. I think a lot of it fundamentally is trying to point us in the direction of relationship and authenticity, courage, and care. I think that's when we will be most embodied is when we can live those values." - by Prentis Hemphill "I think, generally, our culture just doesn't take the space and time to grieve the things that we need to grieve. We haven't celebrated the things we need to celebrate. There's a lot of denial and that stifles our growth. It keeps us, as a society, deeply immature. And I think if we could make some space for those things, a lot would change." - by Prentis Hemphill "There are no more words that can be said. We can keep talking, but there are not really any more words to say. There's something that has to happen. It has to take root in your belly. It has to be expressed through your actions. You have to change." - by Prentis Hemphill "To do anything [to create change] is going to be contingent on our ability to stay in relationship with each other." - by Prentis Hemphill Resources Mentioned in This Episode; The Black Embodiment Initiative at The Embodiment Institute - https://bit.ly/3xhlAda You Are Your Best Thing edited by Tarana Burke and Brené Brown - https://bit.ly/3z09C88 Holding Change by Adrienne Maree Brown - https://bit.ly/3RlD3Ig The Politics of Trauma by Staci Haynes - https://bit.ly/4cjpFwk What it Takes to Heal by Prentis Hemphill - https://bit.ly/4eoC6ZB Guest’s Links: Prentis’ Website - https://prentishemphill.com/ Prentis’ Twitter - https://twitter.com/prentishemphill Prentis’ LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/prentishemphill Prentis’ Finding Our Way Podcast - https://linktr.ee/findingourwaypod Prentis’ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/prentishemphill Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming in hot for our Queer Futures series, we’re bringing you an interview previously aired on For The Love’s Premium Podcast channel with celebrity Peloton instructor, Cody Rigsby. Cody has gained a devoted following through his engaging and motivational fitness classes on the Peloton platform. He talks about his memoir "XOXO Cody: An Opinionated Homosexual's Guide to Self-Love, Relationships and Tactful Pettiness" in which he opens up about transitioning from professional dance to fitness, his relationship with his mother who struggled with addiction and bipolar disorder, and how he aims to empower others through vulnerability and self-love. With his vibrant personality and inspirational story, Cody has become a celebrity in his own right.  * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I think the biggest obstacle to someone starting a fitness journey is feeling intimidated. You don't know what you're doing. You don't look like the people that are at the gym. Your body doesn't know what it's doing. So it's super overwhelming. So if you can take that and push it all to the side and just be like, ‘Okay, [where] in this space can I have fun?’” - Cody Rigsby “No matter how much we love anybody in our life, specifically our parents, dealing with addiction is hard. It's challenging. You don't really know the effects of it when you're a kid until you look back as an adult and be like, ‘Oh wow, that was really messed up.’” - Cody Rigsby “In life, it gets so busy. We're wrapped up in work, we really forget what life used to be or the struggles that we had and the aspirations that we have. Then you sit in the present and you have a moment of gratitude and say to yourself, ‘Wow, I have a lot of the things that I always wanted and I've let go of so many of the things that were holding me back.” - Cody Rigsby Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Cody on Dancing with the Stars - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JjDU_DKpeQ One Peloton Community - https://www.onepeloton.com/blog/  XOXO, Cody: An Opinionated Homosexual’s Guide to Self-Love, Relationships, and Tactful Pettiness - https://bit.ly/3z0FkSN   Dancing with the Stars ft. Cody Rigsby - https://bit.ly/4cjlCjv  Jess King: Peloton Instructor - https://www.onepeloton.com/instructors/bike/jessicaking  Robin Arzón: Peloton Instructor - https://www.onepeloton.com/instructors/bike/jessicaking  Glamorous (Netflix TV Series) - https://www.netflix.com/title/81076871  Tiger King (Netflix Documentary) - https://www.netflix.com/title/81115994 Guest’s Links: Cody’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/codyrigsby/ Cody’s Peloton Page - https://www.onepeloton.com/instructors/bike/codyrigsby  Cody’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/codyrigsbyfitness/  Cody’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/CodyRigsby  Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This powerful episode in our Queer Futures series features an enlightening conversation about power structures with Jen and renowned author Roxane Gay and co-writer Megan Pillow. The women explore not only the concept of individual power, but how we can engage in community empowerment. Together, they delve into how marginalized communities, particularly LGBTQ+ individuals, can claim their power and challenge existing power structures to create a more inclusive and just society. Discussion includes:  Claiming Individual Power: How women, LGBTQ+ individuals, and others can assert their power in personal and professional spaces. Challenging Power Structures: The importance of calling out abuses of power and questioning the status quo Empowerment Through Solidarity: The role of community and collective action in amplifying individual voices and driving social progress. Re-examining Power Dynamics: How rethinking traditional notions of gender, race, and power can lead to more equitable outcomes. Focusing on the Margins: The significance of centering marginalized voices and experiences in conversations about power and progress. Roxane and Megan discuss practical steps that anyone can take to empower others around them. We’re encouraged to ask ourselves critical questions about our own relationships to power and to question the power sources that infringe on the rights of others and use our individual power to disrupt them. Every small act of resistance contributes to a larger movement for justice. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Power doesn't affect all of us equally and some people are able to wield power or are given power, and others have power wielded against them. There are all kinds of factors that contribute to the why of that.” - Dr. Roxane Gay “When you see an abuse of power, call it out and identify it. Oftentimes power works because nobody questions it and nobody challenges it.” - Dr. Roxane Gay "We have to use voting as one tool [to enact change], but we have to figure out other ways to be involved in our communities and to enact other forms of power, not just rely on voting as the singular tool that we use to try to enact change.” - Dr. Roxane Gay “The queer future is complicated. I think the queer future is much better than the queer past, and we are really enjoying a lot of freedom. But it's not enough and until all of us are free, none of us are free.” - Dr. Roxane Gay Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Bad Feminist by Dr. Roxane Gay - https://roxanegay.com/books/bad-feminist/ Difficult Women by Dr. Roxane Gay - https://roxanegay.com/books/difficult-women/ Hunger by Dr. Roxane Gay - https://roxanegay.com/books/hunger/ All of Roxane’s Books - https://roxanegay.com/books/ Do The Work: A Guide to Understanding Power and Creating Change by Dr.Roxane Gay and Dr. Megan Pillow - https://bit.ly/45nxhvd The Power Book: What is it, Who Has it, and Why? by Dr. Roxane Gay - https://bit.ly/3VBRYAl Obergefell v. Hodges (2015 Supreme Court case making same-sex marriages legal in the U.S.) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obergefell_v._Hodges Guest’s Links: Roxane’s Website - https://roxanegay.com/ Roxane’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/roxanegay74   Roxane’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/roxanegay74 The Audacity (Roxane and Megan’s Stubstack Blog) - https://audacity.substack.com/ Megan’s Website - https://www.meganpillow.com/ Megan’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/megpillow Megan’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/megpillow77/ Craftwork (Megan’s Substack Blog) - https://craftwork.substack.com/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this special bonus episode of the For the Love Podcast, Jen sits down with her literary hero — beloved author and teacher, Anne Lamott, whose candid, humorous writing has inspired millions to embrace their imperfect selves. Anne and Jen explore the hard-won wisdom distilled across Anne's 45-year career and 20 books - from finding radical self-love after a lifetime of shame, to surrendering to life's ordinary miracles during periods of existential crisis. With refreshing irreverence, Anne shares her lessons on unearthing your deepest, truest voice and faith that new paths are waiting, even when the way forward feels hopelessly obscured. Jen and Anne discuss The importance of radical self-love, letting go of shame, and being your own priority before trying to please or gain approval from others Having faith that there is a "shape" or path waiting for you, even if you can't see it yet, by surrendering and doing the work of self-examination The wisdom that comes with age in realizing how little you know The way small, mundane acts can be profound expressions of love and service to buoy you during dark periods For anyone who has ever felt cracked by life's circumstances, Anne's perspective provides a roadmap back to wholeness. Thought-Provoking Quotes: “[I've been] giving myself deeper and deeper permission to use my own voice and to stop trying to get people to like or respect me or to think I'm more educated than I am--which I'm not at all educated--and to just get kind of cleaner in my own being so that I could write the deepest I could go in my own truest voice and just get that day's work done one day at a time. It's like nautilus for the soul. To keep writing your truth with your own weird, quirky, way of expressing yourself and being affirmed that people seem to like it and to keep going.” - Anne Lamott "What love manifests is making more mistakes. Knowing as a writer, that a pile of papers and notes and index cards is a fertile field, and you don't need to know what you're going to do with them. They know what you're going to do with them. The material knows what you're going to do with it, and it's going to get back to you as it trusts more and more that you're a reliable narrator." - Anne Lamott “We do some deep dive into the obstacles to radical self-love and to just surrendering to the path of goodness or God or the holiness. The first thing God says to Moses is 'take off your shoes. Feel the earth beneath your feet. This is holy ground.' And that is what God has for you, starting right now. Take off your shoes and wiggle your toes in the earth. Look up. Breathe in. And when you are restored from what you've been through, all this nautilus for your soul you've been doing, you're going to step forward into that shape.” - Anne Lamott Resources Mentioned in this Bonus Episode:  Bird by Bird: Some Instructions on Writing and Life - https://bit.ly/3K1JZGg Somehow: Thoughts on Love by Anne Lamott - https://bit.ly/3ytWzeK The American Way of Death by Jessica Mitford - https://bit.ly/3JZCP5s Hard Laughter: A Novel by Anne Lamott - https://bit.ly/4bFcO7b Five Rules of Being a Grown-Up (Article by CJ Green) - https://bit.ly/4bXbmxl 8 Best Anne Lamott Books -https://bit.ly/3yoWbyj Guest Links: Twitter - https://twitter.com/annelamott/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/AnneLamott/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/annelamott/ Penguin Random House - https://sites.prh.com/annelamott Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen Hatmaker revisits one of the most impactful and downloaded episodes from her "For the Love" podcast's 7-year history. In this powerful encore, she has a candid conversation with acclaimed writer and speaker Jonathan Merritt who publicly comes out as gay for the first time during their interview. Jen and Jonathan reflect on their intertwined journeys - she as an ally leaving the evangelical world, he as a prominent faith voice reckoning with his sexuality. Brace yourself for an emotional, insightful look at the joy and pain of Jonathan's coming out experience. This is one powerhouse episode you won't want to miss again (or for the first time!). * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I had a choice. I could either leave the idea of being loved in that way and loving in that way behind and to get belonging and acceptance, or I could choose to be rejected by the people that I was given as a family and a faith community and I could go off on my own way and try to find love. And that's a tough decision.” – Jonathan Merritt  “I'd grown up hearing this, ‘we hate the sin, we love the sinner.’ And yet, everywhere I looked was all this sin-hate. And there was no marking of loving these people.” – Jonathan Merritt “The number one reason that someone changes their views on homosexuality or same-sex marriage is how they answer the question, ‘Do you have a close family member or friend who is gay?’” – Jonathan Merritt “I live in an Episcopal seminary. You feel hundreds of years of prayers that have been prayed here by good people. People who joined the Civil Rights Movement. And people who were marching after the Stonewall Riots. And people who did it because they loved Jesus and not in spite of that fact.” – Jonathan Merritt "American evangelicalism is predicated on the existence of an enemy to fight, and that keeps people coming to church. It's the need to be against, right? And people revel in that, that's the selling point." – Jonathan Merritt Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Love is the Game Changer of Our Faith: Bishop Michael Curry - https://bit.ly/3BQ2FUl How to Create a Politics of Love: Lisa Sharon Harper - https://bit.ly/3IdV3gW Jen Hatmaker: Trump, Black Lives Matter, Gay Marriage & More - Jonathan Merritt - https://bit.ly/3IhrUS0 Christian Rock Star Comes Out as Gay in Letter to the World - Jonathan Merritt - https://bit.ly/3siB9Ms Eugene Peterson on Changing His Mind About Same-Sex Issues and Marriage - Jonathan Merritt - https://bit.ly/3LXWlyX Leading Evangelical Ethicist is now Pro-LGBT (David Gushee) - Jonathan Merritt - https://bit.ly/3LVOTUV A Faith of Our Own: Following Jesus Beyond the Culture Wars - Jonathan Merritt - https://bit.ly/3Vvj8J6 Dr. Michael Lindsay - Sociologist & Author - https://www.taylor.edu/about/president-profile James Martin - Jesuit Priest - https://www.instagram.com/jamesmartinsj/ My Guncle and Me by Jonathan Merritt - https://www.amazon.com/My-Guncle-Me-Jonathan-Merritt/dp/0762485612 Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.jonathanmerritt.com  Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jonathan_merritt/  Twitter - https://twitter.com/JonathanMerritt Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen and award-winning author, Kelly Barnhill, discuss the powerful themes and inspirations behind her genre-defying book "When Women Were Dragons." Sparked by her outrage during the Kavanaugh hearings, Barnhill created a bold metaphor where women transform into dragons to escape societal oppression. In this conversation, she delves into her controversial ending that ultimately represents the multitude of paths to female empowerment. Barnhill also examines the dangerous historical pattern of silencing trauma and marginalized voices, from the 1918 flu to violent racial tensions. Jen and Kelly discuss: “When Women Were Dragons’" exploration of women transforming into dragons as a metaphor for rebelling against oppression and societal constraints. The ending and how it represents there are multiple valid paths for women's empowerment - some transformative, others finding power in conventional roles. Highlights about the historical pattern of silencing traumatic events and oppression of marginalized groups. Portrayals of womanhood as expansive and defying rigid societal definitions of what a woman is or can be. Novel Summary: "When Women Were Dragons" by Kelly Barnhill is a feminist fantasy novel that explores themes of female empowerment, societal repression, and transformation. Set in an alternate 1950s America, the story revolves around a mysterious event known as the "Mass Dragoning of 1955," where a significant number of women across the country inexplicably turn into dragons and fly away, leaving behind their human lives. The protagonist, Alex Green, navigates life in the aftermath of this event. She grows up in a society that tries to suppress and erase the memory of the dragonings, facing the stigma and secrecy surrounding the topic. Alex's journey involves uncovering family secrets, particularly those related to her aunt Marla, who was one of the women who transformed. As Alex learns more about her aunt's life and the circumstances of the dragonings, she begins to understand the broader implications of the event and its connection to women's liberation and agency. * * * Guest’s Links: Kelly’s Website - https://kellybarnhill.wordpress.com/ Kelly’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/insufferable_blabbermouth/ Kelly’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/kellybarnhill Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Girl Who Drank the Moon by Kelly Barnhill - https://bit.ly/3Vd01m3 The Book of Dragons: An Anthology - https://bit.ly/4bO3ldN Kavanaugh Hearing - https://supreme.justia.com/justices/brett-m-kavanaugh/ 1918 Spanish Flu Pandemic - https://bit.ly/3ysjfvX The Book of Love: A Novel by Kelly Link - https://bit.ly/4btgQzN Nettle & Bone - https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250824776/nettlebone Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/  Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/  Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week’s top episode from the archives is our number one most listened to episode. In a profoundly moving encore episode, Jen Hatmaker shares the story of interviewing her daughter, Sydney, as Sydney shared her emotional coming out story. This raw conversation follows Sydney as she vulnerably shares her journey of accepting herself as gay while still holding onto her faith–and we’re very excited to share this again during Pride Month as part of our Queer Futures series. Jen reintroduces the episode reflecting on what’s changed since this conversation and how it’s affected her community. Three years later, this episode remains an incredible force, sparking deep discussions around LGBTQ+ issues and Christianity in our community. Jen recalls the immense reach and impact this episode evoked - from mending broken family relationships to causing church leaders to reevaluate their approach. As Jen reflects on Sydney’s growth, it’s a beautiful reminder that embracing authenticity allows people to flourish. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I was just scared, and alone. And I wanted to have it all. I wanted to have my family, and God, and my future. And I didn't think I'd be able to have it all.” -Sydney Hatmaker “It doesn't matter how loving you are, or what emphasis on Scripture you come with. That's not enough if you're not fully accepting them as children of God.” -Sydney Hatmaker “Your allyship can't be about you, and it can't be performative, and it has to be for everybody. And it has to be about love.” -Sydney Hatmaker Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this emotionally charged last episode in our For the Love of the Matriarchy series, Jen shares an intimate and profound conversation with Christine Blasey Ford, who came into the public eye when she testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee on September 27th, 2018, while it was considering the nomination of Judge Brett Kavanaugh to the United States Supreme Court; describing an alleged sexual assault by the Supreme Court nominee that took place at a high school party in the 80s. Christine, with brave vulnerability, opens up about her harrowing experience in the aftermath of her testimony and the tsunami of public scrutiny she faced. Through her story, we're reminded of the incredible power of women when we come together, support one another, and find our collective voice against injustices. This episode is not just a dialogue; it's a clarion call to all women to connect, share, and empower each other in a world that often seeks to silence us. Christine shares with Jen: the moment she heard that Brett Kavanaugh was on a short list of Supreme Court justice nominees and the immediate reaction that she needed those in power to know the truth the emotional toll the aftermath of the experience took on Christine and her family, and the safety measures they had to employ because of constant death threats why she decided to write a book, One Way Back, to tell the story now, citing what she learned through the experience and what she knows now about the many other women in history who have also spoken their truth about sexual harassment and assault the incredible amount of support she received from women and sexual assault survivors in the form of letters, which carried her through some of the most difficult moments Jen and Christine's conversation underscores a crucial message: when women connect, we're not just powerful together; we're unstoppable. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “It took many years to feel that I was ready to say something and to break the silence. I had been silent for so long. I was feeling a little bit guilty even, for having so much focus and learning about the contributions of so many other women in so many different venues who have spoken up against sexual harassment and sexual assault. And I just thought, 'Wow, I need to share all the things that I didn't know beforehand. Maybe I could share them and maybe it will help someone.'" - Christine Blasey Ford “The system can often work in ways that make [women] feel divided and makes us feel negatively towards each other. But when we actually connect, we're really powerful together.” - Christine Blasey Ford Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Christine’s Senate Judiciary Committee Testimony - https://bit.ly/3UzlYeof  One Way Back: A Memoir by Christine Blasey Ford - https://bit.ly/4dHlk7C Washington Post Article featuring Christine Blasey Ford - https://bit.ly/4bjFNh3 Guest’s Links: Christine’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/christine_talkinout/ Christine’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/fordchristine66 Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today we’re diving into the profound biological, psychological and social shifts experienced when becoming a mother - a process known as "matrescence.” Jen sits down with science journalist, Lucy Jones, who experienced a seismic identity shift that arose after the birth of her first child.   Lucy and Jen unpack groundbreaking neuroscience research and they expose the deep-rooted myths and unrealistic expectations surrounding modern motherhood. From the minimizing of postpartum struggles to the pressure of "natural birthing" ideals, Lucy reveals how these systemic fictions can breed shame, isolation and maternal mental health crises. Jen and Lucy discuss: The concept of "matrescence" - the biological, psychological and social transition to becoming a mother that renders profound identity changes How modern cultural myths and idealized notions of motherhood as blissful and "natural" can be deeply alienating and contribute to maternal mental health issues The systemic lack of scientific research and societal rituals to prepare and support women through the seismic transformation of matrescence The need to construct new narratives, share vulnerable experiences, and build community care around the modern realities of the matrescence * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “[Matrescence] is a very simple concept that means the process of becoming a mother. The word is a little bit like 'adolescence'. It was coined by the late American anthropologist Dana Rafael in the 70's. She also coined the word 'doula'. She first wrote about it in an essay collection published in 1974 where she talks about how, in most societies and cultures across the world, people have always had a sense that a mother is born when a baby is born. But she also describes your identity, your social relationships, your roles, your everyday life, your mind, your psychology, and your emotions." - Lucy Jones Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Matrescence by Lucy Jones - https://bit.ly/4dDYI83 Foxes Unearthed by Lucy Jones - https://bit.ly/44E9Uxp Losing Eden by Lucy Jones - https://bit.ly/4byVO2k Dana Rafael (an American Anthropologist) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dana_Raphael  “The Birth of a Mother” (A New York Times Article by Alexandra Sacks) - https://bit.ly/4bow0WK 2017 NIH Article on Pregnancy Leading to Changes in the Brain - https://bit.ly/3UAGiMK Of Woman Born by Adrienne Rich - https://wwnorton.com/books/Of-Woman-Born/ Andrea O’Reilly - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_O'Reilly Guest’s Links: Lucy’s Website: https://lucyfjones.com/ Lucy’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/lucyjones Lucy’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lucyfjones/ Lucy’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lucyjonesbooks/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode of the Matriarchy series, we explore how deeply ingrained patriarchal narratives can create a policing effect on the behavior of women.  Author, Elise Loehnen, discusses her book "On Our Best Behavior" which examines how concepts like the seven deadly sins have historically been used to restrict women's behavior and police their adherence to an idealized form of "goodness." Loehnen unpacks the insidious ways women are culturally conditioned from a young age to suppress normal human drives like anger, ambition, and sexuality. And how disrupting rigid gender stereotypes is important when raising the next generation in order to build a more compassionate world.  Jen and Elise discuss: How women are culturally conditioned and expected to embody "goodness" while men are oriented toward power  How concepts like the "seven deadly sins" have historically been used as a patriarchal "punch card" to police women's behavior Why raising boys to have an emotional inner life nurtures positive identity development The current era of politics that calls for women to challenge the patriarchal system while also having compassionate dialogue to build a new, care-centered world where everyone can flourish * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Women are trained for goodness and men are trained for power.” - Elise Loehnen “The worst thing for a woman is reputational harm--just the assigning of her badness. Bad mother. Toxic coworker. Toxic boss. Unkind. She says the wrong thing. And it's sort of impossible to defend yourself against that. We have zero tolerance, and it's very scary.” - Elise Loehnen "We need a culture where the men are like, 'I would like to be more like women. I need to be caring. I want to be nurturing and creative. And yes, I can be strong and I can be masculine, but I also need this underdeveloped muscle.'" - Elise Loehnen Resources Mentioned in This Episode: On Our Best Behavior by Elise Loehnen - https://bit.ly/44tz41D Goop - https://goop.com For the Love of Being Seen and Heard ft. Lori Gottlieb - https://bit.ly/4b8YT9C Maybe You Should Talk to Someone by Lori Gottlieb - https://bit.ly/3JO7FOn Evagrius Ponticus (Fourth Century Christian Monk) - https://bit.ly/4b7zEV5 Pope Gregory on the 7 Deadly Sins - https://bit.ly/3y1J1XK Harvey Weinstein Abuse Cases - https://bit.ly/4b5ktM5 Carol Gilligan - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Gilligan In a Different Voice by Carol Gilligan - https://bit.ly/3JQ9IBh   Human Voice by Carol Gilligan - https://bit.ly/3UQ1Rcn Andrew Tate - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Tate Order, Disorder, Reorder (An idea Developed by Richard Rohr) - https://bit.ly/44xzHqK For the Love of The Enneagram ft. Richard Rohr - https://bit.ly/3QzzZaW Loretta Ross - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loretta_Ross Guest’s Links: Elise’s Website - https://www.eliseloehnen.com/ Elise’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/eliseloehnen/ Elise’s Twitter - https://www.twitter.com/eloehnen Elise’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/EliseLoehnen/ Elise’s LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/elise-loehnen-b867523/ Pulling the Thread (Elise’s Stubstack Blog) - https://eliseloehnen.substack.com/ Pulling the Thread (Elise’s Podcast) - https://www.eliseloehnen.com/episodes Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen and Isabel Allende discuss her novel, Violeta, and why Allende makes her bold choices in characters, events, and settings. Allende shares her fascinating personal background - born in Peru, living as a refugee, and eventually immigrating to the U.S. where she began her writing career. Allende explains how Violeta's story was inspired by her own mother's life and letters, which Allende has meticulously preserved over decades. The author discusses how Violeta's complicated romantic relationships and experiences of political upheaval mirror Allende's own life. Particularly compelling moments include: Allende's description and showing of the extensive archive of her mother's letters The author's insights on the challenges women writers face, having to work harder than men to achieve respect Allende's personal experiences with family tragedy that informed the novel The author's delight in crafting the "villain" character of Julián, as well as the beloved nanny character based on Allende's own housekeeper Overall, you’ll hear a dynamic conversation between Jen and Isabel on life, love, and loss.  Novel Summary: The novel follows the life of Violeta, who is born in 1920 in the aftermath of World War I and the onset of Spanish flu pandemic. The story traces Violeta's tumultuous life as she navigates historic events, including the Great Depression forcing her family into poverty and a relocation to a remote part of their South American homeland. Structured through a series of letters Violeta writes to her grandson, the narrative portrays her resilience, passion, and humor against the backdrop of major 20th century historical events and upheavals, including women's rights struggles. The story arcs through Violeta's experiences of love, heartbreak, and the ebb and flow of wealth, set against the sweeping historical context of an unnamed South American country. * * * Guest’s Links: Isabel’s Website - https://www.isabelallende.com/en  Isabel’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/allendeisabel/  Isabel’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/isabellallende Isabel’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/isabelallende/  Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode: List of Isabel’s Books - https://www.isabelallende.com/en/books  Violeta by Isabel Allende - ​​https://www.isabelallende.com/en/book/violeta  James by Percival Everett - https://www.amazon.com/James-Novel-Percival-Everett/dp/0385550367  Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/  Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/  Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For this special bonus episode, Jen talks with WNBA star, Brittney Griner, who shares her powerful story of resilience after she was wrongfully detained in Russian prisons for nearly a year. Brittney provides a heartbreaking firsthand account of the inhumane conditions she endured, from the lack of legal rights and translators to cruel psychological tactics by guards. She opens up about the pivotal role her faith played in giving her mental strength to survive. Brittney also discusses the ongoing trauma she has faced since returning home, and the renewed sense of motivation to use her voice and platform to advocate for other detainees abroad still seeking freedom.  Jen and Brittney discuss: Griner's harrowing account of being imprisoned in Russia and how she’s fighting to get more US prisoners home The pivotal role her faith and reading the Bible played in giving her strength to survive mentally and emotionally. Her candid discussion of the ongoing trauma she's working through since returning to the U.S. Her optimism about the WNBA's rising popularity to force meaningful change in addressing the glaring pay gap with men's basketball. Thought-Provoking Quotes: "My biggest fear was the fear of being forgotten." - Brittney Griner "We feel like we're in control a lot in our everyday lives. But being over there, I was in a place where I needed help. I couldn't control anything. It was out of my hands. I had to rely on something, or I would have gone crazy...I would have Bible study on Sundays and I think that's what got me through, honestly." - Brittney Griner "We need everybody to buy into [the WNBA]. We need to challenge companies to stop just checking a box and saying, 'Oh, we fight for equality. We had a month. We had some shirts.' That's a step. But we need you to put dollars down to make a difference." - Brittney Griner Resources Mentioned in this Bonus Episode:  Caitlin Clark - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caitlin_Clark “It Gets Better Project” - https://bit.ly/4al2EaZ Coming Home by Brittney Griner - https://www.amazon.com/Coming-Home-Brittney-Griner/dp/0593801342 Guest Link: Website - https://wearebg.org/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/brittneyyevettegriner Twitter - https://twitter.com/brittneygriner Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/BrittneyGriner Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Continuing In our For the Love of The Matriarchy series, Jen talks with powerful women who are taking innovative approaches to their work, their relationships, and their joy. Bozoma Saint John is a trailblazing marketing executive whose career has taken her to the heights of companies like Pepsi, Apple, Uber and Netflix. But her path to becoming a "badass" has been one marked by profound loss and upheaval.  From the loss of her first child and her husband's battle with cancer, to being told she's "too much" by those closest to her, Bozoma opens up about summoning resilience from life's lowest lows. She discusses redefining what true strength looks like, embracing authenticity even when it ruffles the status quo, and pioneering a collaborative model of single parenthood that makes space for her daughter's voice. Jen and Bozoma discuss: Embracing authenticity even when it ruffles the status quo and offends those in power Redefining strength not as impenetrable toughness, but as the pliability in experiencing brokenness yet still rising again The complexities of reconciling life's tragedies with its gifts and holding space for gratitude amid loss Pioneering a collaborative, trust-based model of single parenthood that makes space for her daughter's voice and needs For anyone craving inspiration to honor their scars while uncompromisingly claiming their power, this is a master class. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Privilege is a reliable enemy of equality. And it is sometimes insidious the lengths we’ll go to protect it because we're still benefiting [from it].” - Bozoma Saint John "You don't have to have had the same losses I've had or suffered the same way I suffered to prove that you are worthy of the scars that you bear. You have them and it's okay." - Bozoma Saint John “My parenting has changed because I need to make space for [my daughter] to be honest with me about what she needs so that I can be the mother that she needs; not necessarily the mother that I think is needed.” - Bozoma Saint John "The most amazing thing about being human is how incredibly tied we are to each other. And it is a beautiful thing that even through our pain, we are still tied together as human beings." - Bozoma Saint John Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Bozoma’s Marketing Hall of Fame Induction: https://marketinghalloffame.org/inductees-leading-marketers/bozoma-saint-john-2022-marketing-inductee/ 2021 Most Influential CMO: https://www.forbes.com/connect/event/2021-wmi-cmos/ Ambassador to the African Diaspora and Special Envoy to the President of Ghana: https://bit.ly/4bhmVig. Guest’s Links: Bozoma’s Website: https://www.bozomasaintjohn.com/ Bozoma’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SaintBoz Bozoma’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/badassboz Bozoma’s Instagram: http://instagram.com/badassboz Bozoma’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bozoma-saint-john-0305441/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the For The Love of The Matriarchy series where we’ll explore all the different aspects of women working to embrace agency and celebrating their worth. As we celebrate the power of women and their accomplishments, we’ll also look at the challenges women have faced in a patriarchal society (and still face) and what that means for their bodies and autonomy.  Cait West is an author who grew up in an extreme patriarchal Christian community. She was taught from a young age that her sole purpose was to become a submissive wife and mother. This pervasive sense of having no agency or control over her own life, combined with the constant messaging that she was inherently sinful and unworthy, took a profound toll on Cait's mental health, causing severe anxiety and depression from a very young age. Jen and Cait delve into how families can fall into toxic belief systems, and what recovery can look like. Jen and Cait discuss: The impact of being raised in a fundamentalist, patriarchal environment that severely restricts a woman's autonomy, education, and life choices. The healing power of finding community, sharing one's story, and reclaiming agency after experiencing spiritual abuse and trauma. The difficult but important choice of breaking free from oppressive systems, even when it means severing ties with your own family * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: "[My husband] has always been my steady companion because he experienced some of that verbal abuse from my dad, and he knew what it was like...When I would have anxiety attacks, he didn't understand what was going on either, but he would just sit with me until I could get through it and come back to regulate my nervous system. He just was there with me through it. And that meant more than having someone try to fix it or totally tell me what to do." - Cait West "I realized I had a story to tell. Going to writing conferences and learning from other writers like you who were talking about speaking up for injustice, I decided to tell part of my story online. I started doing that around 2018 and realized there's a lot more people who've been through this and they've just been silenced or afraid — people who if they say something, their family's going to cut them off. That's what happened to me in 2019. I had an interview and I started talking online about my experience and my dad decided not to talk to me anymore. I understand that fear but once I lost that relationship, I felt liberated to tell my story. Because somebody has to. Somebody has to say something." - Cait West "Cait's my real first name, and then West is my grandmother's — what we call the maiden name. It's always resonated with me, my mother's heritage, because they're Southerners, they grew up in poverty. The women in my family have always been the leaders and the strong people of faith. And so to me, it's kind of like calling back to that heritage and recognizing it and trying to hold on to some kind of legacy after losing so much of my life." - Cait West Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Christian Patriarchy Movement - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_patriarchy Tears of Eden (Nonprofit for survivors of spiritual abuse - https://www.tearsofeden.org/ Rift: A Memoir by Cait West - https://www.caitwest.com/book Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.caitwest.com/ Twitter - https://bit.ly/3UytS9l Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/caitwestwrites/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/caitwestwrites/?hl=en TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@caitwestwrites Substack - https://caitwest.substack.com/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In our lives, we are often confronted with moments of profound change - whether it's the result of circumstances beyond our control, or a deliberate choice to step into something new. During these pivotal transitions, it can be tempting to focus on pleasing others or trying to meet the expectations of our family, friends, and community. However, truly transformative growth requires the courage to choose ourselves and to trust our inner wisdom. Author and activist, Najwa Zebian, offers a powerful example of what it looks like to reclaim one's autonomy in the face of a lifetime of feeling out of place and unworthy. Her journey of self-discovery provides a roadmap for navigating change with conviction, self-compassion, and a commitment to living one's truth. Jen and Najwa explore:  The profound impact of emotional neglect and feeling out of place can deeply shape one's self-worth and choices later in life. Connecting with the power of language and self-expression can be a vital lifeline and pathway to healing. Making bold choices for oneself can be a necessary and courageous act of self-preservation. Allowing one's "world to revolve around you" and trusting your own inner wisdom is essential for navigating life's changes and uncertainties with conviction and self-compassion. Author Bio Dr. Najwa Zebian is a Lebanese-Canadian activist, author, speaker, and educator. Najwa began to write to connect with and help heal her first students, who were a group of young refugees. Through that effort with her students, she began a deep healing process for herself. She is the author of six books. She delivered the Ted Talk, “Finding Home Through Poetry.” She also recently launched a digital school called Soul Academy and a podcast called “In the Clear.” Her latest book is called “The Only Constant.” * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Neglect isn't just about not getting your basic needs met. I think the most harmful neglect is not getting the things you do need." - Najwa Zebian "There was always this invitation to not allow myself to experience anger because it was a negative thing. But now I realize there's healthy anger; there's healthy resentment; and it's also healthy to project those feelings outwards. Otherwise, they're inside." - Najwa Zebian "I look at myself as a people pleaser — as somebody who's like, "I can't handle disappointing someone, I can't handle disappointing my family, I can't." But it got to a point where I was definitely willing to do that because I was so aware that continuing to live my life in a certain way meant that I was going to be suffering so much, and I wasn't willing to suffer in that way [anymore].” - Najwa Zebian Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Finding Home Through Poetry (Najwa’s Ted Talk) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNRygxe_8Ys Soul Academy (Najwa’s Digital School) - https://najwa-soul-academy.teachable.com/p/home In the Clear (Najwa’s Podcast) - https://najwazebian.com/podcasts The Only Constant by Najwa Zebian - https://najwazebian.com/the-only-constant Welcome Home by Najwa Zebian - https://najwazebian.com/welcome-home Hijab - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab Mind Platter by Najwa Zebian - https://najwazebian.com/mind-platter Guest’s Links: Najwa’s Website - https://najwazebian.com/ Najwa’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/najwazebian Najwa’s Tik Tok - https://www.tiktok.com/@najwazebian Najwa’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/najwazebian1 Najwa’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/najwazebian Najwa’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/najwazebian Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Million Dollar Advice is a work and career advice podcast hosted by friends and colleagues Kim Lessing and Kate Arend. Together, Kim and Kate run Amy Poehler’s Paper Kite Productions and are very cool and good at their jobs. Each week, they will help live callers with their work-related dilemmas. Whether you have a question or you just like listening to other people’s problems, this show will change your life. If you have a problem at work or a career question big or small, write in to [email protected] or leave a message on the Million Dollar Advice Hotline (888) 799-6327.  Kim and Kate can’t wait to give you some Million Dollar Advice! * * * Connect with Our Friends! Million Dollar Advice Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/million-dollar-advice/id1737475094 Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Making a change in our lives can feel like a big, all encompassing thing; and sometimes we avoid change because of that very notion. But here’s some good news: making meaningful change in our lives actually starts with one small choice at a time, and it doesn’t have to be overwhelming or hard. This week, we’ve got the inside scoop on how to form habits that you actually want to stick with and someone who is going to let us in on the simple secrets to real and lasting change. James Clear is the bestselling author of “Atomic Habits.” His approach to building sustainable habits has resonated with millions, helping people make positive changes and reach their full potential.  In this conversation, James shares personal stories and scientific principles to empower journeys of growth and transformation. Jen even shares her personal experience of choosing one small habit to do each day in the wake of her seismic divorce and how that choice radically affected the trajectory of her recovery.  Jen and James explore:  How to embrace a 1% improvement mindset - small, incremental changes compound over time and lead to meaningful results. The willingness to try different approaches and habits until you find what works for you Why we’ll be set up for success in the long run by having a toolbox of different strategies instead of adhering to specific “must-have” habits The importance of focusing on your identity and becoming the type of person you want to be, rather than just setting goals. No matter where you are in life —you have it within you to make meaningful and practical changes in your life. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “There was a time in my life when I was forced to start small. So I was trying to find little wins; just something I could look at and be like 'Today was a good day.' I think that mindset ended up really helping me in later life." - James Clear "The whole world is going to emphasize your position and where you are. What I'm trying to emphasize is, "Are you getting 1% better? 1% worse? Is the arrow pointing up to the right, even if it's just a little bit? Or have you flatlined?" Because if you're on a good trajectory, all you need is time. All you need is patience. Time will magnify whatever you feed it." - James Clear “There is no one way to build better habits. There are many ways. My job is not to tell you how to do it. My job is to lay all the tools out on the table, rather than trying to tell you this is the way to build habits.” - James Clear “It's very easy, once you're listening to a conversation about habits or thinking about your own habits, to bite off more than you can chew, or start getting pulled in ten directions and be like; 'I'm going to change all ten of these things.' I think one good thing to remind yourself of is this energy will naturally extend into other areas of your life. So maybe take just one of those ten things and try to really master that.” - James Clear "There's this common advice that if something doesn't work, you should try, try, try again and I think the better advice is if something doesn't work, you should try, try, try differently." - James Clear Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Atomic Habits by James Clear: https://jamesclear.com/atomic-habits James Clear’s 3-2-1 Newsletter - https://jamesclear.com/3-2-1 Guest’s Links: James Clear’s Website - https://jamesclear.com/ James Clear’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jamesclear/ James Clear’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/JamesClear James Clear’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/jamesclear/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, book lovers! We’ve got something a little different straight coming to you from the Jen Hatmaker Book Club this month, and if you haven’t been a part of the conversation, we invite you to join us and all our fellow book nerds over at JenHatmakerBookClub.com. We’re sharing our March selection, with you, our dear listeners, and we hope it will inspire you and have you thinking a little differently about the lies we tell ourselves as women and how we can get to that next right thing for our lives. We’ve got the fabulous Jamie Kern Lima, the author of a new book called “Worthy.” If you don’t already know about Jamie, she’s the founder of IT Cosmetics and the author of another book, “Believe It,” which told the story of how she founded IT in her living room and how IT went on to be the largest luxury makeup brand in the country. But if that wasn’t enough, she eventually sold the company to makeup giant L’Oreal, making her the first female CEO of a L’Oreal brand in the company’s history. But her story is much more than a rags to riches adventure, which she continues in “Worthy”--it’s about how she overcame a fear of failure, the paralyzation of never feeling like she was enough, and a litany of rejection she faced through all phases of her career. “Worthy,” contains key lessons Jamie’s learned toward reversing lies we’ve been told and claiming new truths for ourselves, including: Why self love is important (and not selfish) and mirrors how deeply we can relate to and love others  You can never achieve enough to feel like you are enough; that comes with believing in yourself innately as who you are Your past mistakes do not define your present worth or determine your future As Jamie says, the moment we learn to believe we are worthy is the moment unhealthy relationships fall away, ideas are birthed, and art is shared with the world. She invites us to step into the freedom that happens when we embrace who we truly are and believe we are worthy of the good things that come our way. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “If we don't think we're worthy of something, we will either stay stuck, find a way to sabotage it, or–the best case is–we’ll go for it and achieve it. But we'll still feel unfulfilled and still feel like we're not enough in the process. ” - Jamie Kern Lima “If you are someone that prides yourself in being selfless and being a giver, and you can't think about doing this for yourself, the greatest gift you can give people is to learn to love yourself, and to learn to believe you are worthy. Because the depth of love that you have for yourself will expand the depth of love you now have for them.” - Jamie Kern Lima “I do not care how many past mistakes, failures, or things that you feel are shameful or regrettable incidents [you have had]. None of them define your worth.” - Jamie Kern Lima “I believe your intuition is never wrong. I believe it either leads you to the next right step or the next right lesson. I have peace and trust in that.” - Jamie Kern Lima “The moment a person learns to believe she is worthy, that is the moment unhealthy relationships end or unhealthy friendships end or ideas are birthed or hands are raised and art is shared with the world.” - Jamie Kern Lima Guest’s Links: Jamie’s Website Jamie’s Instagram Jamie’s Facebook Jamie’s Twitter Jamie’s YouTube Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Believe It by Jamie Kern Lima For the Love Podcast Episode ft. Jamie Kern Lima Worthy by Jamie Kern Lima For the Love Episode ft. Daniel Pink Feeding America (Food Bank Charity) “The Life You Want” Class (Taught by guest teacher Jamie Kern Lima) Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/  Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/  Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Continuing in our series of Embracing Change, Jen talks with an elite athlete who found their life caving in, leaving themselves with no other choice than to flow with the transitions. In this candid conversation, Jen and Olympic figure skater Gracie Gold delve into Gracie's battles with mental health, disordered eating, and the intense pressures of elite athletics. Gracie’s story speaks to immense strength - navigating the insidious grip of an eating disorder that spanned longer than many of her close relationships. Gracie recounts how the illusion of control through restrictive eating eventually triggered a "nuclear meltdown," forcing her to confront the compounding traumas. Jen and Gracie explore: The toxic underbelly of perfectionism glorified in figure skating and its ties to disordered eating Society's tendency to stigmatize mental illness that doesn't fit a textbook definition The arduous, perpetual work of managing an eating disorder Reclaiming authenticity after realizing her projected "ice princess" persona was unsustainable With refreshing candor, Gracie shares how curiosity and embracing life's small joys enabled her to begin reconstructing an integrated identity beyond skating's rigid expectations. Her courage to openly discuss such profound struggles is a beacon of hope for anyone confronting their inner critic. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: "In most industries, to be a woman in this world, typically and historically, you were rewarded if you were smaller." - Gracie Gold "Instead of feeling anxious that I don't have a plan and I don't have an exact to-do list with everything on it checked off — instead of finding anxiety in that, I try to find freedom." - Gracie Gold "[I'm] continuing to put one foot in front of the other and being okay with not knowing where I'm going and that the universe will bring me where I'm meant to go." - Gracie Gold “I just thought I could push through [depression]--very type A. I just thought 'Oh I can push through, if I just work harder, or be better, then it'll go away.' Which it didn't.” - Gracie Gold Resources Mentioned in This Episode: 2014 U.S. Olympic Figure Skating Team (Gracie’s team won a bronze medal) - https://olympics.com/en/olympic-games/sochi-2014/athletes Outofshapeworthlessloser: A Memoir of Figure Skating, F*cking Up, and Figuring It Out - https://www.amazon.com/Outofshapeworthlessloser-Memoir-Figure-Skating-Figuring-ebook/dp/B0C4J8MLF6 Top Ten Female Figure Skaters of All Time - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest_scores_in_figure_skating Guest’s Links: Gracie’s Website - https://graciegold.figureskatersonline.com/ Gracie’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/GracieGold Gracie’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/GraceEGold Gracie’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/graciegold95 Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our new series of Embracing Change is a deep examination of all the different ways change shows up in our lives and all the ways we can respond to it. As Jen says in this interview, our guest today went through a “chosen change.” Hers was a transformation that felt inevitable after all the small, incremental posture changes made her ready for the leap to follow — a leap toward more sanity, more love, and more joy.  Joy Sullivan is a poet and community builder. Her new book “Instructions for Traveling West” is “for anyone flinging themselves into fresh starts.” She received a Masters in poetry from Miami University and has served as the poet-in-residence for the Wexner Center for the Arts. She joins the podcast today sharing her story of walking into the unknown. Through her unique viewpoint as a poet, she unlocks potent ways for us to trust our intuition and stay curious about what is scaring us. Jen and Joy touch on: The importance of embracing loneliness and stillness as opportunities for self-discovery and hearing one's true inner voice and callings. stories from Joy’s life that served as lessons for her to love herself more deeply Reclaiming selfhood by rupturing constrictive cultural and religious narratives, especially around womanhood and female identity For anyone feeling the tug to upend the inertia of their life and lean into evolution, this conversation is an inspiring guide for following one's deepest callings into new horizons. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: "I started driving west and I spent six weeks hiking in Sedona, being in the beautiful desert. During that time, I really had this sense of awakening and the sense of rupturing. It was that question like, ‘Am I doing work that matters?’ And I was so awake to my life again in that intense way that loneliness just pricks us alive. And I really began to grapple. I just looked at every aspect of my life and said, ‘Could there be more?’" - Joy Sullivan “I don't think it matters where you go, but to be able to give yourself an opportunity to really reinvent, that's the good stuff.” - Joy Sullivan "I didn't have the life that I sort of felt like I always should have had based on what a woman was supposed to get — a husband, kids, the stability of the white picket fence, etc. And what's been interesting is when I sort of recreated or fractured some of those stories culturally and religiously that I had been given, my life just expanded into possibility because it had never occurred to me that a woman could be really, really happy if she didn't choose those things." - Joy Sullivan “Poetry is the only place that can hold the unsayable. It's the only space we have that holds that which cannot be spoken in any other art form. All the ache, all the beauty, all the impossibility of being alive; that's what poems are for.” - Joy Sullivan Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Sustenance (A Community of Poets and Writers founded by Joy Sullivan) - https://joysullivanpoet.com/sustenance Necessary Salt (Joy Sullivan’s Substack Blog) - https://joysullivan.substack.com/ Instructions For Traveling West by Joy Sullivan (A book of poems coming April 9, 2024) - https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/734503/instructions-for-traveling-west-by-joy-sullivan/ Guest’s Links: Joy’s Website - https://joysullivanpoet.com/ Joy’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/Joy_E_Sullivan Joy’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/joysullivanpoet/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re finishing up our For the Love of Wonderful You series intentionally with a deep breath and a gentle word of encouragement. In this episode, even though we are talking about trauma, critical inner voices, and the arduous process of grief, Jen and her guest unwind these topics in the most gentle and loving way.  Kobe Campbell is an award-winning therapist who specializes in helping people process grief and trauma in a way that unearths true empowerment. Hidden beneath the clamor of everyday life, the voices of our inner critic lie in wait to echo our grief. These voices, though silent to others, can roar deafeningly within us — shaping our perceptions, beliefs, and actions. Kobe’s suggestions of journal “prompts” help guide our own trauma excavation process, and her gentle but challenging questions further that sometimes painful work, while steering us toward self compassion.  Jen and Kobe touch on:  The understanding that grief can take a lot of time to process; which can ultimately lead to wisdom and true empowerment A working definition of trauma and that trauma is highly personal and contextual How we can feel brave enough to examine the inner critical voice and discern where it’s coming from Acknowledging the cultural pressure to live at an unsustainable pace that doesn’t allow space or time to heal If you ever needed permission to grieve or drop the unrelenting pace of your life, then this is the invitation. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I love to tell people that trauma is not what happened to you. It's about how it affected you. And those effects can live in our present, even if the moment is in the past. I help people parse through that in creative ways with poems, quick words, and thoughts from my kitchen right after I'm done with the session.” - Kobe Campbell “I think that many of us have not been given the space to grieve long enough to know what genuine and internal empowerment feels like, and we keep trying to give ourselves that empowerment from the outside. We keep trying to grasp motivation from somewhere.” - Kobe Campbell "Trauma can be acute, meaning it can be a moment, or trauma can be chronic, meaning it could be several moments over time. And I like to give the example that trauma can be a boulder or it could be pebbles. But the reality is–it doesn't matter. There is no big 'T' trauma and little 't' trauma because, at the end of the day, all those pebbles amass to the size of a boulder anyway. It's just being accumulated over time." - Kobe Campbell "The person who holds the wound holds the wisdom. If we lock away that version of us that is deeply wounded and wants to cry for three months, then we're also locking away the wisdom of those situations that we need for our present." - Kobe Campbell "My humanity is good. God created it good. And if I believed that I was good for just existing as I am, how would I treat myself?" - Kobe Campbell Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Why Am I Like This? How to Break Cycles, Heal From Trauma, and Restore Your Faith by Kobe Campbell Journal Prompt on Kobe’s Instagram Brain Neuro Coupling I Feel Like Woman by Shania Twain on Spotify Minaa B. Website (Therapist and Colleague of Kobe’s) I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou Michell C. Clark Instagram Guest’s Links: Kobe’s Website Kobe’s Facebook Kobe’s Twitter Kobe’s Instagram Kobe’s TikTok Kobe’s YouTube Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube  The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’ve got someone on the show this week who makes it her business to show us exactly how wonderful we as women are–just as we are! She is the queen of keeping it real, a hilariously honest actress, standup comedian, and the Instagram star who has become our go-to for a belly laugh when the world's expectations just seem a tad too polished–it’s Celeste Barber! If you haven’t seen Celeste on her Instagram account, get on over there and join the nearly 10 million people who are clamoring for her content each week (and if you have any doubt, she won the “Funniest Lady on Instagram Award” back in 2017). She’s also a successful standup comedian who sold out three seasons of her “Challenge Accepted” Tour in the US, and has a Netflix Special (“Fine, Thanks”) and a dramatic comedy series that we just love called “Wellmania.”   Jen and Celeste get into it about:  The riotous juggle Celeste manages by shining a light on the quirks of the beauty industry, all while paving her own extraordinary path.  Celeste opens up about the nuanced battles of being valued for her sharp mind and quicker wit in a scene often unforgiving to women. Celeste and Jen share about the beautiful chaos of balancing a career with being a superhero mom (or at least trying to be).  This episode is more than just laughs (though, swear, you'll have plenty); it's a pat on the back for every one of us out here, doing the thing, being utterly magnificent in our complexity. Here’s to celebrating the splendid and wonderful you! * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I would like to live one day without anxiety. I would also like to be a Janet Jackson backup dancer. That's all I ask for.” - Celeste Barber “I take my hat off to women in general, just always and forever. "The mothers who work in the day and then go home and be excellent mothers at night, and they go back to work in the day and they come home and they're excellent mothers. How do they do that?” - Celeste Barber “With women, [being] funny or smart or boundary-pushing is fine as an idea, but [we're asked] 'can you be safe and pretty because that's just easier for us.' And so shifting that lens, the thing is, we're multifaceted. There are so many different types of things to celebrate within women." - Celeste Barber Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Celeste Barber: Challenge Accepted (Celeste’s 2019 Comedy Special) Celeste Barber: Fine, Thanks (Celeste’s 2023 Comedy Special) All Saints (Medical Drama that got Celeste her start) Wellmania (2023 Netflix Series Starring Celeste) Celeste Barber: Backup Dancer Tour Celeste Barber and Tom Ford Collab Celeste will be in Dallas June 10th at the Majestic Theatre, in Austin June 13th at the Paramount Theatre, and in Houston June 14th at 713 Music Hall Guest’s Links: Celeste’s Website Celeste’s Instagram Celeste’s Facebook Celeste’s Twitter Celeste’s YouTube Channel Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube  The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.   Visit Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

 Here’s a little bonus for all our listeners this week–a preview from one of our fellow Audcacy Network podcasts, We Can Do Hard Things! Life is freaking hard. We are all doing hard things every single day – things like loving and losing; caring for children and parents; forging and ending friendships; battling addiction, illness, and loneliness; struggling in our jobs, our marriages, and our divorces; setting boundaries; and fighting for equality, purpose, freedom, joy, and peace. On We Can Do Hard Things, Glennon Doyle, author of UNTAMED; her wife Abby Wambach; and her sister Amanda Doyle do the only thing they’ve found that has ever made life easier: Drop the fake and talk honestly about the hard things including sex, gender, parenting, blended families, bodies, anxiety, addiction, justice, boundaries, fun, quitting, overwhelm . . . all of it. We laugh and cry and help each other carry the hard so we can all live a little bit lighter and braver, free-er, less alone.  Enjoy this special excerpt from We Can Do Hard Things! * * * Connect with Our Friends! We Can Do Hard Things Podcast Nadia Bolz-Weber Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s the start of a new series, For The Love of Wonderful You! Spring is arriving and as the winter slumber fades away, many of us are likely plunging into a frantic pace of commitments and To Do lists. But we want to take a minute (or approximately 45-mins to an hour) to create a moment where we can punch the brakes a little. Let’s tell that inner taskmaster to relax; and instead, reflect on finding value in who we are in this moment, and how worthy we are just as we are.  Jen’s amazing conversation partner today is Amanda Doyle. Amanda is many amazing things but you may know her first and foremost as “Sister” on the We Can Do Hard Things Podcast with Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach. She’s also part of the leadership team at Together Rising, the amazing non-profit that has raised over $50 million dollars and given it away to people all over the world who need it most. Amanda has been a longtime social justice advocate and she uses that knowledge to break down deep truths and complex social issues in all her conversations. Today, she reminds us that spending the energy to stay vulnerable in our relationships will always pay out. In this episode Jen and Amanda talk about: The struggle to be vulnerable and truly open up versus managing perceptions and staying in control in relationships How Amanda chose sobriety and the surprising clarity that emerged in her marriage, especially during the pandemic Jen’s journey to understanding herself and her avoidant tendencies in the aftermath of her divorce The profound impact of the "love letter" exercise guided by Liz Gilbert, where “Love's voice” urged Amanda to stop keeping score in life * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “A relationship has to have some equilibrium. The farther you go this way, the more the other person has to go the other way. What I have learned is that no one wants to be in those places.” - Amanda Doyle "What I have recently realized is that many people who either view themselves or are viewed in their relationships as control freaks; actually what they want the most is to not be in control of everything. They feel like they have to be in control of everything, because that is the way that they show their love is by taking care of things. But what they want more than anything else is for someone to step up and be like, 'I got this, I got you. You don't have to be in control of this.'" - Amanda Doyle “You are so fixated on the score of this life, but there is no score except the one in your head. You are exhausting yourself to death, trying to keep a score and figure out where you've won, and figure out where other people have disappointed you and slighted you and not met your expectations. But the score is fiction. We're not being scored." - Amanda Doyle “We think when we're giving up alcohol, we're giving up fun. And that's with good reason. It's like fully marketed--growing up, it's part of the narrative; anything that is fun also includes alcohol. But then I had the enormous blessing of being so close to Abby and Glennon's life and seeing that they were the most fun people with the most delightful, satisfying lives of anyone else I know. And none of that included alcohol." - Amanda Doyle Resources Mentioned in This Episode: We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle For the Love Podcast Episode ft. Glennon Doyle For the Love Podcast Episode ft. Abby Wambach For the Love Podcast Enneagram Threes Episode ft. Lisa Whelchel Untamed by Glennon Doyle We Can Do Hard Thing Episode ft. Liz Gilbert Letters From Love with Liz Gilbert (Substack) For the Love Podcast Episode ft. Sarah Bessey Guest’s Links: Together Rising Website Amanda’s Twitter Together Rising Facebook Together Rising Instagram Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube  The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices