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Hey, curious people, I'm Jonathan Van Ness, and welcome back to Getting Curious.You guys, do-do-do-do.Na-na-na-na-na.Na-na-na-na.It's the final countdown.We are less than a week away from the election of 2024, and I kinda can't believe it.
It's gonna be Halloween, and then we are going to be right there for the election.We get to have none other than Senator Elizabeth Warren back on the podcast to talk what's at stake in 2024.
how fucked up Republicans are, and ultimately, what do we need to do to elect Kamala Harris as president?That is the guiding question.What do we need to do?How are we going to get Kamala Harris in?
And there's really nobody better to talk about this with, but so much has happened since we had Senator Warren on the podcast.We had her on before we knew that Biden was going to be the nominee. We had her on before COVID.
We had her on before January 6th.We had her on before Amy Barrett Coney.We had her on before Roe v. Wade.So, I mean, there's just so much for us to catch up on, on this, on this episode of Getting Curious.
And I'm so honored that Senator Warren took her very busy time to have this conversation with us.So without any further ado, let's welcome back to the podcast, Senator Elizabeth Warren.Senator Warren, welcome back to Getting Curious.
How are you this morning?
I am so much better for being with you.I just love spending time with you.You are the sweetest thing.
We are just eternally your biggest fan.I'm so glad that you made time in your busy schedule, because you are out on these campaign trails working.Where are you joining us from today?
Well, today I'm actually joining you from my porch, which you can see in the background here, because I'm back home.I've been out in Wisconsin and Michigan.I've been in Pennsylvania and North Carolina, you know, we're
We're on the lines here, and also doing more work, as we all do now, electronically.But it's really just trying to reach everyone to talk about the importance of this election on November 5th.
What a roller coaster.I've been having to work so much harder on my therapy and my EMDR to deal with the anxiety.And it just has truly been such an unprecedented time.
As you've been traveling over the Midwest, I just got to go to University of Michigan a few weeks ago.I was in Ann Arbor.I got to work with one of the Dean of Students, Celeste Watkins-Hayes, Dr. Celeste Watkins-Hayes, who I'm such a huge fan of.
And I was so impressed by their turnout or just their operation on the ground in Michigan. Has your, and also North Carolina, we have some reasons to be hopeful in North Carolina.
I know that's like always a little bit on the precipice of like, you know, it's like more of like a red shade of purple than like a purpley purple, but I think we have some good opportunities there.
Is there any electoral places that you are a little hopeful about, or are you just like, honey, these polls are all 50-50 and I'm fucking nervous.Excuse my French.
No, so look, I am hopeful. about a lot of places, partly because we have good candidates, and partly because people are just speaking up.People are just getting engaged.
One of the things I love, and did this when I was in Wisconsin, I'd meet with a group of people, maybe a hundred people, and I would say, so how many of you, is this the first time you've come in to volunteer?
you know, not, oh, I do this every four years or even every two years for the real, you know, people who are engaged in elections.
And the number of people who were putting up a hand saying, I might not have done this before, but wow, this one really, really, really, really matters. Also, I think of it this way.
You know, Jonathan, you reach people not just in blue states or blue cities within red states, you reach people all across this country. And this election will affect people all across this country.So I look at how Nebraska is getting engaged.
I also look, just over the last couple of years, ever since this extremist Supreme Court overturned Roe versus Wade and took away constitutional protection for access to abortion,
How many places that nobody thought people could stand up and say, wait a minute, that's not what we want to do?People stood up and made their voices heard, and you may remember, Jonathan, the first was Kansas.
And I remember when the first word came that Kansas, that the citizens, the people there were saying, we want to vote on the abortion issue, and the experts around the country were like, whoa, don't start in Kansas, because there won't be enough people to really stand up and carry this.
And I remember I called one of the people who was mentioned in the press and said, can I help?And... Person said, yep, and here's what we need, and here are ways that people could help from the outside.And by golly, Kansas did it, you know?
And then another state and another state, and I'll point out, abortion is on the ballot.
Florida, exactly, Arizona.It's on the ballot in Montana.So I mention all that by way of saying, You know, look, it's scary, the polls are very close, but the point is, this is really a time when people should feel power.Your vote matters.
And I know, people are always trying to say, oh, your vote matters.But the truth is, this time, your vote really matters.
And getting out there and voting, pulling your friends in who say, oh, voting never matters, why is it a big deal, pulling them in, pulling them in now, pulling them in by their shirt collars and by their legs, whatever you have to do to get them in there.
But getting everybody in to vote literally could make the difference between whether our country looks like
what looked a lot like a Nazi rally on Saturday night, or whether our country is a country that says, we value everybody, and we want people all to be an authentic version of themselves.
Which kind of country do we want to be, and which kind of country Are we, right now, who have the right to make that choice, are we going to get out there and choose?
Because not to vote, not to get your friends to vote, not to get engaged in this, is to say we're okay, if it actually turns out to look a lot like a... Nazi-like rally.
I mean, I have like 11 things to follow up with on there.Um, and I'm gonna just try to start from the top.The first one's not serious, but kind of.
When you said Florida, did I detect a small intonation of the same cadence that Taylor Swift uses in Florida with... Florence, because you were like, Florida, it really was.Do you know that song?
Do you know the song Florida by Taylor Swift and Florence?Okay, because the way you said it.Okay, so we have a pop culturally informed queen sitting in the senior Senate position from the state of Massachusetts.Okay, so let's just clarify that.
So that's the first part.Now let's get into the more serious stuff. One thing that I wrote down just really briefly is I didn't realize that abortion was on the ballot in Montana So I wrote down like tester question mark.
Hopefully that will help him I saw him a little bit behind in the polls another quick follow-up.I wanted to get to without going too far off But this is important and it probably will come up later, but he just it came up now
If you're cynical like I am, I have a lot of friends that are in New York, that are in California, that are single issue voters, that are very concerned with what's going on in the Middle East.
I'm also concerned with what's going on in the Middle East.I'm also not a single policy voter, not to brush that under the rug because look, 40,000 plus people dead.This is nothing that we shouldn't, like, this is a huge issue.
And at the same time, I think I'm less concerned because I'm familiar with the Electoral College.I've lived through two presidential cycles where we've had a president, you know, lose the popular vote, win the Electoral College.
I've been thinking a lot about the election of 2000 lately.I've been talking a lot about it on the pod.
One of the reasons that I think places like Sister District are so important, and we talk about them all the time on the pod too, I'm going to make a point here in two seconds, I swear, is that they work with people in progressive enclaves, they pair them with people in swing places, and yes, they focus on state races and state legislators, but with so many
just disillusioned and Democrats that just feel really frustrated this cycle.I think places like sister district are so important, not only for state and local elections, but also just to get on these phone banks for presidential elections as well.
And obviously that's not the point of sister district, but I think in this election cycle, that could be especially important.So if you're thinking, I'm not going to drag my friends because I'm in New York, I'm in California, it doesn't matter.
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One thing that Sister District has taught me is that the earlier that we can donate and volunteer, the better.However, you've run very many successful campaigns.
Aren't donations and volunteering and that final ninth, bottom of the ninth stretch important too?Like it's not too late to get involved if you are just getting involved the last week, right?
So I want to tell you a story, Jonathan.Please tell me.This story dates back to when I ran for the first time.So put yourself, it's back in 2012, and remember Massachusetts, good blue Massachusetts, was represented by a Republican, right?
And we like our moderate Republicans in Massachusetts, and we tell ourselves this shows how open-minded we are.And, yep, this was a Republican who was, in my view, voting against Massachusetts tensorists on a lot of really important things.
So, anyway. Nobody wanted to take this guy on.And so nobody's going to run against him who really has a chance to beat him.And I start getting these phone calls.I just come back from setting up a consumer agency.I start getting these phone calls.
People say, Elizabeth, you should run for Senate against this guy.You'll lose, but you should run."Now, I want to start out by saying, Democrats, you need a better sales pitch.You know, you should run and you will lose is not a great sales pitch.
But at the end of the day,
I never thought I'd be in politics, but I looked around and thought, wow, if I don't run, I don't know who is, and I'm going to wake up the day after this election, and that guy's going to be voting for me, or against what I care about, down in Washington for six more years.
So I'm going to do everything I can.So I throw myself into this race, and I have to tell you, Jonathan, the best part about it were the volunteers, people who signed up, people who just said, If you'll take the point I'll help push it.I'll help.
I'll help you get there.So I started like like 35 points down.I mean, you can't even find me in a in a an original poll. And piece at a time, it kind of moves up and kind of moves up.
And so by spring before the election in November, I'm only down like 18 points.And then in the summer, I'm down, beginning of the summer, I'm down 10, and then it kind of goes to eight, and then it kind of goes to six.You know what I mean?
You follow this.So literally at this point, that is this last week as we're going into the election, Before the race, I'm to the point where I'm down two in one pole, I'm up one in another pole, or tied in a pole.
In other words, nip and tuck, jump ball, whatever you want to use for your metaphor here.So Roger Lau, who is the guy who's running this for the state, wonderful guy from here in Massachusetts,
Roger has said to me all along, Elizabeth, he said, we know this is hard.We know you've never done this before. you fight this guy to a tie.
And if you fight this guy to a tie, we, the volunteers, the field office, the folks making phone calls, the folks who send in another $10 right at the end, all of us here at the end,
we will work our hearts out, and because of that, we will give you two more points.So if you're even, we're going to give you two, and that's how you're going to beat this guy.That's our plan.
So I stay after it, I fight that guy, we go through the debates, and we are, as we go into the election, some say he's going to win it, some say I'm going to win it, we are just right there.
The volunteers, the people who called, the people who came in at the end, the people who said, you know what, I'm not going to do this for six more years of having that guy represent us, I'm in this fight now.
All of those people who swept in at the end, We beat that guy by seven and a half points.
Wow.So last, so like that ninth inning stretch is really the seventh inning, whatever it is.Cause I can't do sports analogies, Jonathan, get it together.
So the point is it's still really important.It's not too late.Get in there, get in that fight.
Not too late.This is where, the votes that will make the difference.We got it.I understand.There are going to be some voters who are going to vote for Donald Trump no matter what.I get it.
There are going to be some who are out there for Kamala no matter what, and that's great.But there's going to be some that the difference is going to be who got that phone call, who heard from someone,
who got a chance that someone said, let me pick you up and take you to the polls, I'm glad to drop by, all of the different ways that people can help.
And like I said, even if you're not in the state where someone is competitive, I get it, you're sitting there in New York, I'm sitting here in Massachusetts, you can send in 10 bucks so that somebody else, so that they can buy pizza,
for the people who come in and are volunteering and using their own cars to help drive people for early voting or on voting day.You know, there's just a lot that goes on.
The energy at the end in a close race is what's going to make all the difference here.And We sure have reason to have that energy.When I see it, when I'm out there, I think we've got the energy.But now's the moment to... I know.
You ready for the reference?Now's the moment to crank it up to 11.Yes!
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So then another thing I just wanted to say really quick, and then we're going to get into like all the things that have happened since we saw each other last, which to me is like such an important reason why we need to be voting.
But I think so much happens, it's hard for us to contextualize and remember how rigged the system is, which to take one of your lines, it's my favorite.But you said earlier, because I'm in New York City right now.I'm here for a couple months.
And that rally at Madison Square Garden Sunday, it was on a freaking Sunday.This man has this rally that is so abhorrently racist, xenophobic.I mean, and that's one thing to me that speaks to the hypocrisy of Donald Trump and the Christian
kind of nationalists that support him.And I notice I don't say all like, because a lot of times I say Christian nationalists, a lot of people in my comments get upset because they're like, way to jog my religion.
And you know, not all of us are like that.I'm like, I get it.But a Christian nationalist and a Christian isn't in the same.We're not in the same bucket.That's like a different thing.But to come out on the Lord's day and have a
a comedian, open your rally in Madison Square Garden where one of the most famous pro-Nazi rallies happened on United States soil.Holy, I mean, I really shouldn't be surprised anymore by the things that he says and does.
But for a presidential candidate, you know, because his his campaign said that they didn't vet these speakers.So you go to Madison Square Garden and you don't vet your speakers.So so who else are you not going to vet?It's like Celeste Watkins.
She says you're electing a crisis manager when you're electing a president and a crisis manager who wants to go out and Madison Square Garden the week before the election and talk about the xenophobic.
what they said about Puerto Rico, what they said about black people, it's abhorrent.It's textbook racism in all of its forms.
And for us to just, I think for Christians to endorse that, when he's doing that on Sunday, like I was an acolyte growing up in church.I went to church every Sunday.I went to Christian sports camps.
This one called Cannacock and Branson, Missouri, if you can believe it.My whole upbringing, like it's just, it is so, un-Christian, it's just so wholly un-Christian.
So I just had to say that because it's like, it's a... Okay, so anyway, since we saw each other last, Senator Warren, who would have known?I think we saw each other in the end of 2019.
I don't even think we knew what COVID was yet because I'm pretty sure it was like October or like September that we saw each other.So, so much happened.
And one thing that happened, and this is the last eight years, but this is one thing that I just really lose sleep over.And I wanted to ask you about this. I think about Merrick Garland's nomination all the time.I literally, it's my Roman Empire.
Merrick Garland gets elected to the Supreme Court in, I believe, February of 2016.Mitch McConnell says that it's an election year.
The American people should make the next decision as far as, you know, who gets to nominate the next Supreme Court justice because it shouldn't be done in an election year.
in February of an election year, even though the Constitution says that at that time, Barack Obama would have had the right to appoint a Supreme Court justice all the way through January of 17.Merrick Garland's nomination gets stalled.
Then fast forward, you have Gorsuch get in, Kavanaugh gets in.Then at the 11th hour, when votes were already started to be counted in 2020, and the untimely passing of Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, whose last statement was that my most fervent wish
is that these senators honor what they said that they did in 2016 to benefit the Republicans, her body not even cold.They approve, they confirm Justice Amy Barrett Comey, who to this day, is it Comey or Coney?I never know how to say her last name.
I think it's Coney.The hypocrisy and the way that Republicans and people, am I the only one that remembers this?Am I the only one who this is their Roman empire?Is this something that in the Senate,
Does the Democratic caucus in the Senate just think like, Mitch McConnell, like what he did was unconscionable.And that to me, like that is where Roe v. Wade was determined.It wasn't in 2022.It was in 2016 that the writing was on the wall.
And then this is a kind of like, not even a question.I'm just like, you know, how do we hold Republicans accountable for what they have done to the United States Senate?
Think of it this way, they want power and they're willing to do whatever it takes to seize that power to themselves. And that's what the moves around the Supreme Court were all about.And understand, they want to be able to reshape America.
When I say they want power, they want power for a very specific purpose, and it's to reshape an America where
women have fewer rights, where an LGBTQ community just doesn't exist, where trans people do not exist, where racism puts people in their place and everybody recognizes those places and subserviently abides by them, where a handful on top
run everything for themselves, and that everybody else gets left behind.That's what they're driving toward.And this is why the courts were so important to them.
The courts were important because if you simply put on the ballot, hey, you think that we ought to overturn Roe versus Wade, it loses by more than two to one, right?It's not what Americans want.And I'm not just talking about Democrats.
I'm not just talking about independents.Even Republicans say, not really.Okay.There are some people who wanted it, but they are the minority and we live in a democracy.Same kind of thing on LGBTQ plus rights, same kind of thing.Gun control.
Oh my gosh, on guns, you know, on a more sensible immigration policy even.They don't want an immigration policy.What they want is to stir everybody up and then use the hatred and the fear as a way to get more power for themselves.
So they focus on the courts, on the Supreme Court, because that's a place they can do these very anti-democratic things.An extremist minority can control a big chunk of our country.
And now, with this rally Sunday, Donald Trump is just bringing it out in the open.And he's saying, much more aggressively, in an election, hey, this is who we are.
We are a party, he is a candidate, who is hate-filled and believes that he will have more power and can better run this country, as he puts it, for his riches held donors, for his billionaire crew, by stirring up
hate and ugliness in this country and taking away rights from our beloved brothers, sisters, cousins, friends.I mean, that's the plan here.Trump and his crew are saying this right out loud.They're putting it right in front of us.
And I think this is why I feel so intense about this moment.We actually have a chance to stop it.This is it.November 5th is our chance to stand up and just say, no, we're not doing that.
We're going to put Kamala Harris in the White House, we're going to have Democratic control of the Senate, and we're going to have Democratic control of the House.And are we perfect?Nope.Do we make mistakes?You bet.
But we're trying, and we start with the premise that every human being deserves dignity, that every human being deserves an opportunity to build a life for themselves in which they have self-determination, and in which they have the opportunity to build
some financial security, but also some security in the community they live in.And I think that's what this election is all about.
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I remember an episode that I did on, on the podcast years ago with a, um, what was her, it was tequila Chung Yapa and it was about spirituality and climate justice.
And the reason I bring up this episode of the podcast is because there was a survey that was done where it's like 80% of Americans identify with some religion. whether it's Christianity, Judaism, Islam, and a multitude of other faiths.
But 80%, this is a staggeringly high amount of Americans who identify with some sort of religion.And of that, the majority is Christians.And I just think about, you know, at last night's rally alone, I have
It's not a new thing, but Donald Trump always says Barack Hussein Obama, always has to say Hussein.He's playing on Islamophobia.He always has to call Kamala Harris a Marxist, a communist.
You know, and I think about, and one thing I've talked about on this podcast a lot is how if you look at American history, there's always like eras of vilification.Like you had the lavender scare. vilifying queers.
The Cold War was all about, you know, being scared of communism.And that fear of communism is what propelled us to war in Vietnam, propelled us to war, you know, all over the world.Central America, we're still dealing with the effects of that.
But there's been eras of this vilification of certain people. And Donald Trump is throwing all of them against the wall.He's giving you Islamophobia.He's giving you anti-Semitism.He's giving you xenophobia.He's giving you misogyny.
He's giving you every single one.And it plays to people's fear, which is so un-Jesus-like.This is going to be controversial, but it's like, I'm sure Jesus would have been a socialist or a communist, honey.
He would have been down with like making sure that people who don't have access to healthcare have access to healthcare. He would have been down with making sure that people who don't have access to food have access to food, a safe place to sleep.
That was what his whole thing was about, was helping your fellow neighbor.It wasn't checking papers.It wasn't putting false prophets or political figures, you know, above the needs of your fellow person.And I'm pretty sure Jesus was not a capitalist.
I'm pretty sure he wasn't.I'm pretty sure he turned a whole bunch of wine from water.Well, the great, what are the great makers have said about that?You know what I'm saying?Like he wasn't a capitalist.And so,
By having Donald Trump play on all these people's worst fears, it just, I don't understand how we can kind of get through to people to like, say in the most loving of ways like you're being played, you're being manipulated by someone who doesn't care about you.
He doesn't care about your, and I think Kamala Harris has done a really good job saying go to one of his rallies, he's not going to talk about a plan for you.But it just,
people's ability to cut through that rhetoric and that diatribe and lay out a clear future of what's at stake, not very many people can do that.You can do that.How do you think that we can do that better?
So it's a really interesting question you pose here, Jonathan, and as you always do, it's always interesting how you think through these things. I look at it this way.We have this moment coming, November 5th, we vote.
And let me, I can knock on wood here.Let's assume Democrats get the trifecta, right?Knock wood.That's Kamala Harris wins the White House.We have Democratic control in the Senate and we have Democratic control in the House.
I think what happens at that point is that we work hard to make the country work for everyone. Look back for just a minute here, Jonathan.The first two years of the Biden administration, you remember, we had the trifecta.
Joe Biden had just been sworn in, Democrats were in control of the Senate, Democrats in the House, and remember, in the Senate, for you political junkies who tune into Jonathan, Remember, it was a 50-50 Senate.
The only reason it was called Democratic-controlled is because we had Kamala Harris as vice president to come break our ties.But we had this skinny little majority.And you know what we did?
The very first thing we did is we passed a law saying, wow, things are still looking tough because of COVID. We're going to put money down into our communities, right down the town level.And you know what the consequence of that was?
no town in America had to lay off its public school teachers, or its firefighters, or its librarians, or its town clerk.They didn't have to close things down.
And because they kept it all open and the paychecks kept coming, that meant people could still eat at restaurants.It meant that people could still go buy clothes.It meant that all the other businesses could survive as well.
And I mention that one first because it was a way to say, you know how we build a future?We invest in communities.And by the way, it turned out to be a natural experiment.The United States did more than the other richest nations in the world.
And the consequence of that is that we ended up with the highest GDP growth, the highest small business formation, the lowest unemployment rate and, drumroll please, lowest inflation rate anywhere among the rich nations.
So we proved that investing in communities works.You know how many Republicans voted for that?Zero. Zero, not a single one would go along with us.But Democrats got together and said, we're going to invest in communities.
Now, we went from there, we turned right around and said, we're going to build infrastructure again.We've underinvested in infrastructure, roads, bridges, broadband for places that don't have it.
You know how important it is to get everybody in the economy.Built it, reached out to Republicans, some of them joined us, some voted against it. But we got it done.Then we turned around and said, we're going to do another one.
We're going to do one that gives people $35 insulin and puts a $2,000 cap on what seniors spend out of pocket.You know about the cost of prescription drugs.You and I have talked about this before.
and passed the biggest climate package in the history of the world, biggest ever, and it was paid for by my 15 percent minimum tax on these billionaire corporations that were paying nothing in taxes, companies like Amazon.
So we got them to pay for our huge climate package.Is it everything we need?Certainly not.But is it a good step and the first big step we've taken in the right direction?Yes, it is.
Then we turned around, and by the way, how many Republicans voted for that one?Zero. Then we turned around and passed one more law, it's called Chips and Science.
First time we said we're going to invest in making things here in America, and we're doing it with these silicon chips, and we doubled, doubled our investment in science for years to come.
So if you care about healthcare breakthroughs, if you care about climate breakthroughs, The way I think of it is we've doubled our odds that we're going to be able to produce something really valuable.Okay, why do I tell that story?
That was a two-year period when Democrats were in charge.You noticed during that time there was not nearly as much enthusiasm for Donald Trump, a lot less talk about, oh my gosh, he's got mine, I need to take it away,
From him, from her, from them, this is outrageous.Here's my deepest hope.If we can get that trifecta, Democrats have proven we are not the Democratic Party of even 12 years ago, when I first came here.
We are more disciplined, we are more focused, and we deliver.If we get that trifecta again, we start to deliver for all of America. And I think that's going to be the best antidote to the kind of hatred and fear that you were talking about.
It's not perfect, it's not the answer that's going to cover everything, but it's an answer that lets us take a deep breath as a country and say, you know, we can work on things together.
we can make sure that everybody has got opportunity, that treating this group with dignity does not take away from you.It doesn't threaten you, it doesn't mean that you can't build a future.And I get it, there'll still be some haters out there.
I'm not naive here, Jonathan.
But I think we have the chance here to take the big microphone away from them, to take the weapons away from them that they want to use, because right now they are told by Donald Trump that if only you get rid of that group, let's round up, what are they saying, 11 million people?
Some are saying 20 million people, and just export them from this country. No.
We said, that's not how we're going to do this, and we're going to build a stronger nation where you've got opportunity, I've got opportunity, those folks have got opportunity.That's how it's going to work for all of us.
And kind of, we have a chance in that sense to turn down the volume on this hate and ugliness and spend more time building our lives.
You brought up something really the mass deportation.I saw this article the other day.I think it was in the Atlantic, but it could be wrong.I can't remember what it was, but it was saying that Democrats are having a big missed opportunity.
You're the perfect person to ask this question to has a really big missed opportunity in talking about like how destructive mass deportations would be to our economy.I think they said something like.
Like there's millions of mortgages like home mortgages that were taken out from undocumented immigrants that like banks would collapse.
It would like it would lose some major cities would lose like 10 to 20% of their population like industries would collapse like major industries would collapse like it would cause a huge disruption to our economy.
And so thinking that Donald Trump is somehow stronger on the economy. when he is championing things like mass deportations, which would cause havoc in like a half dozen or so at least industries.That's true, isn't it?
Oh my gosh.So the economic consequences of mass deportation, you just have to say it's just nuts.What it would do to this economy would be incredibly destructive.And think of it a couple of different ways.
Partly it's because we know that there are many people who are here who are, for example, awaiting a court date
who are working, and Donald Trump wants to round them up, and wants to round them up even if they're building homes right now, which is something we desperately need, or round them up even if they're working in nursing homes right now, or round them up even if they're keeping our restaurants going right now.
And think about, I, for me, the part I have to keep looking at is not all families have one immigration status.A lot of families are mixed status.So two of the kids and mom may be citizens, but dad and two of the other kids are not.
What happens to a family like that?Are we going to be, Is a Donald Trump world one where they come in and say at gunpoint, half this family has to leave?And then what does the other half of the family do?
Do they also leave so that the family's not torn apart?The consequences of what Donald Trump proposes are appalling for our economy, but also for our soul.
What kind of nation would come in and say, here you are living your lives, building a future, working on that, and yet, the government is going to come in and say at gunpoint, nope, half of you have to leave.You, you, and you have to leave.
That's not how we built a great nation. and that will not make us a great nation in the future.
Can you speak for just a moment why you think that a Harris administration would be so much better for the economy than a Trump presidency?
Absolutely.I'm so glad you asked this.So let's just start with We're going along with low inflation, COVID hits, and all kinds of stuff gets tangled up and prices shoot up.
So supply chains are tangled up, there's materials you can't get, shipping gets messed up, and by the way, the war in Ukraine starts pretty soon after this, and that gives us problems with getting materials.OK, so inflation jumps up.
But a second thing happens, and that is, corporations look around and say, huh, Everybody's talking about higher prices.
How about if we pass along the higher costs that we now have incurred, plus we just go ahead and raise our prices a whole lot more above that and shoot up our profits?
And that way, these higher prices will just spiral out, but our profits are going to be fabulous.And this is not just a maybe that happened.You can actually look at the data.Over a two-year period, inflation goes up 14 percent.
Wow, that's a lot compared to where we were.Corporate profits for these giant corporations goes up 75 percent. So now the question is, what are we going to do?
We know that having put money into the economy, America, the United States, is recovering faster than the other nations, but prices are still high.Donald Trump, the Republicans, they've got no ideas at all.
I mean, they are just, I'm telling you, they open the cabinet door and look at the shelves and they're completely empty.They have no idea for how to lower prices. What the Democrats have done is two things.First, they just took some costs head-on.
They said, we're going to go to $35 insulin.We're going to cut the cost of hearing aids so they can be sold over the counter.This is something I worked on.So the price drops from thousands and thousands down to hundreds of dollars.
We're going to get rid of junk fees.Just kind of everywhere you can, you sort of attack these prices. The big one that Kamala Harris is taking on, and she says, I'm going to take on price gouging.
When these guys say passing along 14% over two years, I get it.But when they add on another 75% for their profits, I don't. And that's wrong.She stands up to the big corporations and says, I'm going after the price gougers.
Donald Trump says to those price gougers, donate to me and I'll make sure you get tax breaks.
Say that again, because that's the part that I think people are just not seeing.We have Elon Musk, who's a billionaire, paying people a million.I mean, there's a reason why Elon Musk is supporting Trump.It's because he will give
trillions, billions of dollars of tax breaks to the top 0.01%.There's a reason why Jeff Bezos did not allow for an endorsement in this presidential election.
I mean, what do you think, what do you think about the fear of like Elon Musk and these centibillionaires who are kowtowing to Donald Trump in this way?I've never seen anything like this.
Have you?I never have either, but notice it's right in line with Donald Trump's message.He's been saying all along he's going to make this country work for a smaller and smaller group at the top.
He says he's going to be great for his, this is his term, rich as hell donors.
the people who invest in Donald Trump are going to be the people that Donald Trump is going to help, and he's going to help them, he said, with tax breaks and with getting rid of regulations so that they'll have even more opportunity to pick people's pockets.
So for me, the whole question about high costs, the economy, this is one where Kamala Harris
both has a smart and sensible plan, but also the courage to take it on, and the values to say, I'm working for working families, I'm working for middle-class Americans who are just trying to make it from paycheck to paycheck.
Donald Trump is saying quite openly, he's working for not just the billionaires, the multibillionaires, Those are the people he's going to work for, and those are the people who are helping support him.There's the difference in this election.
I think what Donald Trump and JD Vance are doing is using words like communist, Marxist, you know, all this in language to paint Kamala Harris as the reason why inflation is so bad.
And they are hoping that constituents won't do the research to understand what role does inflation play in the economy?How much responsibility does a president bear for the inflation?
in an entire economy when you have corporate gouging at an all-time high and corporate greed at an all-time high.And then getting people to understand that the corporations are on the sides of the Republicans.
They are not on the sides of you in so many cases. So that's an important thing.Obviously, because we don't have that much more time, trans issues, we have a huge Supreme Court case coming up on trans rights.
Chase Estrangio, who's a former guest of the pod and someone who we love so much, he'll be arguing as the first trans lawyer in front of the Supreme Court, which is one, really cool, but also really terrifying because trans people have been scapegoated as the ills of so many people in the United States.
I was recently featured on a Donald Trump ad, which was pretty scary to see myself on a Donald Trump campaign. But how can we get people to make space for trans people without making us a political hot potato?
Yeah, boy, you put that one exactly right, Jonathan.I think that the whole Trump thing plan is just to keep picking whatever group he thinks is most vulnerable and that he can use to stir up as many voters as possible.
And it's trans, it's immigrants, it's people who need abortions, and just go after them over and over and over.Because it's part of the mindset of let's blame them And that means we don't have any responsibilities to fix our own problems.
And we don't have any expectation that we're going to do anything to actually help lower prices for you.What we're going to do is we're going to blame it all on trans people.We're going to blame it all on immigrants.
And that means never to have to engage on the fact that inflation goes up 14% and corporate profits go up 75%.Because boy, if you're going to start engaging with that, you come to a conclusion like Kamala Harris's.
And that is, whoa, we need some laws around price gouging. and we need to enforce those laws.So, again, I see this as this is all coming to a head on November 5th.
If Donald Trump seizes power, then we know how this plays out, and that is trans people, immigrants, Anybody who needs access to abortion, boy, more trouble, and not just trouble in red areas, trouble all across the country.
Understand this one, Jonathan.They're coming for New York, they're coming for Massachusetts, they're coming for Wisconsin, they're coming for Oregon, they're coming across the country.
Alternatively, if we can get Kamala into the White House and get democratic control of the House and the Senate, I think we have a chance to reel this back in and remind ourselves that the truth, that when we treat each other with dignity and respect,
and even a little love that we can actually build something stronger.It's part of what we've done off and on throughout our history and I always say we haven't been perfect.
but we try to move toward a broader view of everybody gets access to opportunity, everybody gets treated with basic human dignity.That has to be our starting place.
RFK just made a video talking about how a vote for Kamala Harris is a vote for nuclear war.It was like the craziest video I've ever seen in my life.It's really intense.He's talking about Ukraine.He's talking about Israel and Gaza.
I asked my followers before I came here, what were the things that they wanted me to talk to you about?And one of the things was Israel and Gaza. We just got done with an episode on Dr. Osama Khalil.
He's an incredible historian who tracks our domestic and foreign policy from the Kennedy administration to now.I learned so much, but what I really learned is that our foreign policy is terrible.
We have caused millions and millions and millions and millions upon millions of deaths all around the world.For me personally, I'm not willing to sacrifice reproductive rights, queer rights, gun control, global warming, unions, queer rights.
I'm not willing to sacrifice domestic policy because I disapprove of our foreign policy.That's where I fall.And I think that what's happened in Gaza is not okay.I don't support the war in Gaza.
I think that Netanyahu needs to have serious constraints put around his use of aggressive force and killing innocent civilians.I also think that Israel has the right to defend itself.So I think it's a really difficult needle to thread.
But I also think that if Trump were to win, I think that he would give Netanyahu carte blanche to do.And as much as people want to say, well, hasn't he already been given carte blanche?I don't think so behind the scenes.
I think that if Trump were in office, it would have been, I think we would have seen double, triple, quadruple, way more death than what we've seen.So I'm not minimalizing 40,000 deaths.
I just am saying that I do believe that a Trump administration would be would have significantly worse outcomes for Palestinians and for Gaza when you consider that his first act as president was a Muslim ban.
I don't think he cares about Palestinians.Anything in there do you want to add, disagree with?Don't you think it would be better for us to pressure a Harris administration on Gaza than a Trump administration on Gaza?
So I think that Harris has already signaled that she wants to move in a different direction from Biden.And look, it's not easy being vice president.You know, you don't get to make the decisions and you have to be supportive.
I don't want to give her too much space here, but I think the very fact
that she has made the statements about the deaths in Gaza, about the suffering, that she did not go to Netanyahu's speech when he came over to, you know, get a turn around the block from the Republicans, I think is of great significance.
The thing that I think about a lot as we're bearing down on November 5th, is Benjamin Netanyahu wants Donald Trump to be elected.There's really no doubt about that.And that should give anyone pause.Do you really want
Netanyahu to get a leader that he thinks will help Netanyahu, not necessarily Israel, because I don't see their interests as aligned, but will help Netanyahu even more. And for me, I'm a hard no on that.
Yeah.Okay.So last thing, I saw your debates against your Republican opponent this year.So good.I mean, I feel, I didn't, I didn't even feel the need to check the polls.Cause I just, I mean, I felt bad.
I've never seen a human mop get used in action like that.I just, you know, Jesus, I mean, you just absolutely wiped the floor with this man.The polls aren't close, right?No.Like, yeah.Thank God.Okay.Love that.So that's that.Okay.
Final thing, filibuster.So you said that like, We were able to pass quite a few things without even needing to break through.I mean, you were able to legislate alongside Kristin Sinema and Senator Manchin, which Hats off, Senator Warren.
Hats off to you, Queen.You are working it over there in that Senate, but you were able to do that without breaking the filibuster.
But I think I heard you on an interview say that you would support like, wasn't it like a, like a suspension of the filibuster to like restore Roe v. Wade?
No, I'm ready to get rid of it.
I'm just ready to get rid of it.Because the things we could do, we had to do, it's like, can you dance on stilts? Yeah, but it's pretty shaky and pretty limited what you can do.
And so we were able to do things like $35 insulin and hearing aids through every time.
Because budget reconciliation, was that how you did that?
That's right.You had to do things through reconciliation or get them attached to another bill that was going to pass for sure with a lot of Republican support, and it limits what you can do.So here's the plan, Jonathan.
You give us that trifecta, right?Democrats in the House, the Senate, and Kamala Harris in the White House.Week number one, we're gonna make Roe versus Wade law of the land, everywhere.
Week number two, we're going to pass the John Lewis Voting Rights Act.And that's the right to vote, the right to get your vote counted, anti-gerrymandering, which is going to be the long-term help for the House and for our state legislatures.
And I'm pushing, as part of that, D.C.statehood.So that D.C.has its own.That's part of voting.And by the way, it won't even be the smallest state, I want to point out. So that's week number two.And then week number three, meet the moment.
Eighty percent of working Americans say they would join a union if they could, but the laws are tilted against them and these giant corporations like Amazon, as soon as there's a whisper about unionization, they snap their fingers and these union-busting lawyers come in and the union dies before it's ever born.
So we pass those three things.We have to get rid of the filibuster to pass any of them.So my view is the filibuster has, it's time for it to go.
The key here, because sometimes people say to me, yeah, but aren't you worried, you know, there'll be a time Democrats might be in the minority, and aren't you worried about what Republicans will do?You may need that filibuster.
My view is we need to put our nickels on democracy. The filibuster has kept us from doing the things we need to do for way too long.
It's been used largely through the decades as a way to block civil rights laws and, by the way, keep from passing anti-lynching legislation.We need to get rid of the filibuster and just strengthen access to voting, and at the end of the day,
In a democracy, if the majority of people want something, that is about how it should happen.So I think of it this way. Everything that we want to do to make big change is well-supported, Jonathan.
You mentioned earlier, we need better laws around gun safety.
We need real immigration reform that includes a pathway to citizenship, as well as secure borders and work permits and reimbursement for the states that are currently supporting the migrants who are here.There's work we need to do in area after area.
I'm fighting for universal childcare. And we need to build more housing in this country.To do these things, we need to get rid of the filibuster and just make our big bet on democracy.We do the things people want.
That's how we build a nation that works, not just for a handful at the top, but works for everyone.
If you're listening to this and you have like 60 extra dollars, rapid fire really fast, Elizabeth, you can do five to $10 donations to people.It's like Alyssa Slotkin from Michigan.Yes, got to make sure she gets in there.Colin Allred, Texas.
I know it's an outside chance, but he really It's looking like- So close.So close it could happen.Gallego, how exciting for you to have Ruben Gallego and not Kristen Sinema in the Senate.
Gallego's looking really good.
Gallego's looking strong.But Tammy Baldwin, former guest of the podcast.We love Tammy Baldwin so much.We got to get her in.We got to make sure she wins.Who else am I missing from Senate that needs our help?
Florida.Florida.Because Rick Scott.Who's running against Rick Scott?
Yep, yep, and it's close.And remember, this is a state that has the abortion question on the ballot.That's going to turn out a lot of people who are seriously thinking about, whoa, which way has Donald Trump taken us and don't want to go there.
So think about a donation in Florida.
Any other places or house races that you're partaking?I just I got an email from Mary Peltola that said in Alaska that she was kind of in trouble with this other asshole.And I'm obsessed with Mary Peltola.I really want her to win.
Oh, I love Mary.So I think I think that's a great idea is to do Mary.I'm just trying to think. You know, look, the Nebraska races are really interesting.
And the whole idea that we're not just gonna cede all of middle America to the Republicans, but we're gonna stay in this fight.I really like seeing that happen.So something to think about there.
Parting thing, would you please, in next legislative session, is there like some cool like,
like Senator report that you could do on that superintendent from Oklahoma who's like basically making all the Oklahoma public schools by the Trump bibles because like that's like that whole thing is really chilling and could you guys do some report on that like if Ted Cruz can investigate Dylan Mulvaney and Budweiser?
Can you please investigate that fucking leather-bound Trump Bible bullshit in Oklahoma?
I hear you, you mean the Bibles that were made in China?Yes.
Because Trump can make money from China and when it's making money from China, he's all in.But he also says he's going to block off access to China.
Senator Warren, were you, you were at the Capitol on January 6th, weren't you?Or were you not?Were you there?You were literally there.Fucking Ted Cruz, you were on the floor when he objected.You saw it happen with your own eyes.Any final words?
You know, we have the power. and the power will be exercised on November 5th.
It's not often in your life that you have a chance to make history, but for people who are listening to you and me right now, Jonathan, the difference if you live in one of those swing states, one of those seven states that's in play right now,
the difference you could make, or the difference if you live in a state that's not one of the ones in play, but you can make phone calls.
Or maybe you get in your car or get on the train or the bus and spend next weekend out there knocking on doors, out there helping the volunteers.
I lived this nip-and-tuck, nip-and-tuck, and it was the volunteers, it was that energy at the end that gave me a seven-and-a-half point win over the very popular Republican that I beat out for this seat and gave me a chance to go down to Washington to fight the righteous fights.
Yes, Senator Warren, and here's to six more years from you from Massachusetts.I love you so much.I'm just the biggest fan.Thank you.I'm sorry we ran late.I just I had so much to get to.And thank you so much, Senator Warren.
We love you so much, Ellen.Sorry.You're the best of all time, Senator Warren.Just thank you.Thank you.Thank you.I can't wait to see you again in real life.
So one thing I have to say, did we learn the thing? Yes, I was really moved by Senator Warren's story about the volunteers that moved her to a seven and a half point victory in 2012 in Massachusetts.
So that really means that the energy, the inertia that we need to make as the Democratic Party to make sure that Kamala gets across the finish line is palpable.
You know, we have Elon Musk that's running the ground game for Donald Trump on the other side.So hopefully we can you know, rise up above that and get Kamala Harris in the White House.So it's not too late.
If you haven't donated your time, money, energy yet, it is absolutely not too late.
One thing that I wish that I could have asked Senator Warren, but we just did not have the time to get to is if she thinks, you know, what I'm really curious about after the election, if God forbid, Kamala Harris loses.
I am going to be wondering if her tack to the right was worth it.To me, I think that President Biden ran a more unapologetically progressive campaign in 2020.
I actually think that he didn't live up to some of his progressive promises that he made in 2020.And, you know, I think that we've seen Kamala Harris, you know, definitely tack to the center.
But I don't know if she's really talking to the center so much as she's just trying to assuage Republicans that she wouldn't be.I just, I don't know.
I think, so often I said on this podcast that Republicans tend to run towards their base, whereas Democrats inexplicably seem to run away from it and towards the middle.That strategy was successful for Clinton in the 90s.
I don't know if it's gonna be successful for us now in 2024, but I'm certainly willing You know, to throw my support behind Kamala Harris, you know, so we're just going to see what happens there.But fuck me, is that a nail biter?
You know, I'm also curious about so so did did we learn what it's going to take?Yes.I am now very curious about polls.How accurate have these polls been? Is it going to be a landslide?Is it going to be close?
I just I so wish that I had a crystal ball.I'm going back to Texas to vote in person.I live in Texas.I am in New York on work for a month right now.But I'm really excited to go back home, make my voice heard.
I want to be kind of like an unusual Democrat voter and vote in person in in my precinct.Honey, I'm not doing early voting.I'm doing it So we'll see what that's up with.
One of the things that I didn't get to ask Senator Warren that I really wanted to is like who are her favorite other senators to legislate alongside?We'll have to have her back for another episode later.
But one of the things that I'm most curious about for now is If we win, if we get a Democratic trifecta, how can we get her week one, week two, week three goals achieved?I think that that is a beautiful goal.
I'm also curious about what was said in our episode of strict scrutiny about how the Supreme Court, how this Supreme Court could try to strike down codifying Roe v. Wade as law.I'm curious about the ways that that could happen.
I'm curious about how do we How could we govern in a divided government?What if Kamala Harris wins, but we have a Republican Senate?What does that mean for the Supreme Court?Are they just going to Merrick Garland it all over again?
I'm really just curious to see what the fallout from this election is.What is going to happen?Who is going to be in power? Yeah.Uh, but I will tell you that next week we are going to do an episode about what is our episode about Chris?
It's very much like election escapism.Yes, honey.We're going to learn about like cadavers in 14th century France and like morbid or no Italy, like morbid Pope shit. 800s Italy, oh my God, 800s Italy, just fucking cadaver popes.
It's gonna be like very Gilead election escapist, I don't know.We'll see you there, but we love you guys and we love Senator Warren, and we'll see you next time on Getting Curious. You've been listening to Getting Curious with me, Jonathan Van Ness.
You can learn more about this week's guests and their area of expertise in the episode description and follow us on Instagram at Curious with JVN.
You can catch us here every Wednesday and make sure to tune in every Monday for episodes of Pretty Curious, which we love.It's our podcast on all things beauty.Get into it.Still can't get enough and you want to get a little spicy with us?
You can subscribe to Extra Curious on Apple Podcasts for commercial-free listening and our subscription-only show, Ask JVN, where we're talking sex, relationships, or really just whatever is on my mind that week.Our theme music is Freak by Quinn.
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