This is the Gary Vee Audio Experience.
All right, all right, all right, everybody.Welcome back to another episode of the Gary Vee Audio Experience.I am Mike from Team Gary Vee.
On today's episode of the podcast, we are sharing an episode from a while ago where Gary sits down with Matthew McConaughey.They talk a little bit about Matthew's life, resilience, accountability, and the balance between responsibility and freedom.
If you're someone who's chasing a dream, this is definitely the episode for you. Enjoy the episode, everyone.
Matthew, it is a pleasure to introduce you to the show.Please tell everybody who you are and what the book is about.
There we go.Good to be here with you, Gary Vee.Yeah, I'm a commentator here.Went away to the desert for 52 days of solitary confinement, walked out of there with a book.It's based on 36 years of diaries I've been keeping.It's called Greenlight.
And it's... Stories, people, places, prescribes, poems, prayers, and a whole lot of bumper stickers.
Sort of based on a 50 years chronological narrative of my life and it's interspersed sort of with flashbacks and flash forwards of those prescribes, poems, and prayers that come in and either call back to the story you just got out of or propel you into the next story that you're going into.
It's ways of seeing is what it really is.Perspective very much approach book and a playbook than a memoir.
And the name, does it allude to, you know, going forward, like, yes, culture, like, you know, because when I heard the name, I was like, oh, I like that.
You know, I got a little bit pissed, you know, when my Jets love affair, I always talk about green, I was like, shit, I could have definitely gone with that kind of brown.So don't even get me started.But he's a red light now in chief.
So is that a little bit of like where you went with it?
Well, so here we go. What I ended up with is believing that every red and yellow light turns green eventually in life.All right, so we love green lights.Yes, they affirm our way.Go, yes, proceed, attaboy.We don't like yellows and reds.
They slow us down or stop us.But I found out that a lot of them are yellow and reds.When is it that we notice that there's a green light within the yellow and the red?Meaning, right now, there's no green light with Le'Veon Bell leaving your channel.
But I apologize, because you get me fired up.My green light with the Jets is actually my macro professional mission, which is like, okay, well, this sucks, but good news, I'm gonna buy them.And when I do, I'm gonna win fucking Super Bowls.
So that's my green light within the red. That one is a marathon versus a sprint.But to your point, I'm definitely picking up what you're putting down.Cause sometimes I see the green in, I mean, I see the green and the fucking yellow every time.
The green and a red is a little bit more of thinking sometimes an hour, sometimes a year, sometimes a decade.
Sometimes on our deathbed, sometimes maybe our great, great grandkids figure it out.I don't know.Some of them might.But when is it that we notice?
And I think the tool that I've talked about in the book is when faced with the inevitable, get relative.So one thing is when do you deem the situation inevitable?And then the other art is when and how do you get relative with that situation?
You either persist through it, because you want to get what you want, or you pivot, or you hold up the white flag and go, no, I'm fighting another day for something else.
How much is self-esteem, a layer, a piece, a framework of even making any of this possible?
Well, I guess you never thought about it, but it has to be a large part of it.
Right, because it's funny, right?Notice where I went, right?And I liked that you paused and gave it some thought.Like to me, I'm listening and I'm already hyped and I knew this would have plenty of energy.
I'm just obsessed with self-esteem because I think, I just think that people fall in love with yellow and red because of insecurity.And I think people front the green because they're putting up fake bravado and ego because of insecurity.
And I think a lot about the foundation of self-esteem allowing to triple green light in this situation.
Sure.I mean, absolutely.How about self-esteem and the ego?If you don't mind me parlaying those two, I'm a fan of both.How do you have judgment?How do you have any identity?Yeah, I mean, self-confidence, self-esteem, self-reliance, awareness of self.
then you gotta have all those to handle the yellow and the reds and not again, lay down and wallow in them.I love it over here.
Because what everything you just talked about, I was giving you some room because I'm gonna get bombarded for cutting you off because that's how I roll.So I'm trying to be better, evolving my older age.All of that leads to accountability.
When you talk about all that self work, I'm like, right.And then that part lays into accountability and accountability actually makes you really fucking happy instead of the reverse.
Hey, I'm sitting down eating the same dinner with you, man.I mean, it's this idea, part of this choice about how to find green lights and create green lights, which obviously we can create green lights tomorrow for us by our choices today.
So this idea that sometimes we say it's a responsibility and freedom are a contradiction, which they're not.There's a responsibility to freedom and there's a freedom in responsibility.Relay gratification is what I'm talking, I'm a big fan of.
I love teeing myself up, being cool to my future self.Whether it's the simple thing of putting the coffee in the damn filter tonight or tomorrow morning when I'm groggy, all I gotta do is push the button.
And I go, ah, nice play, Makana, way to be cool. Or whether it is how I choose to be a husband to my wife or a father to my children.
Or how- And how they speak about you behind your back in 21 years.
Yeah, and the end of, let's just dive into this delayed gratification, which I can tell you- I'm obsessed.
Because I'm obsessed with the journey.I like the game way more than the fucking trophy.
The trophy doesn't really exist though.We're just achieving on the way to unachievable the whole way is the way I see it.
I mean- One of the reasons I bring up the death of very iconic people, Prince I use a lot, others is I try to use that to paint a picture to people of like, you can have a trillion trophies. And then it's just all over.
Like you get 24 hours in social media, you get a little hashtag trend, people play their favorite clip, they quote a couple of your favorite things, and literally it's a week later and everyone's fucking on their life.
So what the fuck are you chasing trophy for?
The result, process, process, process.So I bring this up.I'm a fan of doing this a lot too.I like to, before doing a movie, say, sit down with the producers and directors, hey, what's the poster look like?
Yeah, yeah, I love it.I love it.I love where you're going.Reverse engineering.
That's right, reverse engineering.So still listen to this.Let's all ask yourself, what's our eulogy?Which is gonna forever introduce us after we're gone.Well, that's inevitable.
The relative part is this resume of living we got going right now, which is gonna write that story that's gonna introduce us forever when we're gone.
So- Let me, since it's, I mean, this is talk about sharing the same meal.Take me to a couple of different places, because we'll get back to this.
So much makes sense to me about my observations and interactions with you right now, now that we've gotten to this place.
Talk to me about the book from a different way because we have a big audience on this and there's a lot of different people and now I'm gonna focus on the people that are thinking about books. Did you always want to write one?
Is it as simple as you went for this?Cause I was aware of that little, you know, adventure you took.Did it really hit there?What would you like to happen because of it?How much around legacy and, you know, like what's the poster?
Like what would you like to happen?Like give me the selfless and selfish, you know, altruistic and like personal makeup blend of this for you.
Man, we'll get into selfish or selfless later on.Those two are, those two are.
You like that one, right?Yeah, I'm about that.Yeah, I get it.
Still redefining it to the world.I'm a big fan of it.So listen, I kept diaries for 36 years in my life.
Just because I'm going to double click, because this is fun and we got a little time.Why did you start day one?What happened?
Well, 14 years old, probably started it because, you know, Gretchen Donnelly broke up with me and my mom. I went to my diary, like most people go to a diary or journal, whatever you want to call it.
So I went to a diary from my first years of when I was lost, trying to figure shit out.Oh, heartbroken.Man, figure this out.Why do I got pimples?What's going on?What's this pubic hair coming in?Why won't mine come in sooner? that.
So then it started off with going there to figure out, figure things out.And I get my twenties, I got some great relationships going, school's cranking, I got a job, I'm rolling, catching green lights.
I remember saying, hey, you better keep writing in your diary right now while you're succeeding, while you're rolling, while you're catching green lights.And my hunch was, you're gonna be, you're gonna get in a rut again.
And you're going to need something to look back on to recalibrate.Sure enough, I found a rut, as we all do.I was able to go back to those diaries and go, what were your habits when you were rolling, when you were catching green lights?
Who were you hanging out with?What time were you going to bed?What were you eating?Where were you going?What were your morning rituals?Oh, you spend a little more time with yourself before you engage with the world.Oh, I got you.
Oh, you took that little walk.OK.And it got me recalibrated, got me back on the rails, and it helped me get out of a certain rut. and find green lights again, find my frequency again.So I kept those diaries, looked at them all.
Seven or eight categories came out that I mentioned earlier from the people, places, prescribes, poems, prayers, and a whole lot of bumper stickers.And then the theme of green lights started to emerge out of those categories.
I noticed how I've engineered green lights in my life with certain choices I'd made.
I teed myself up for more Saturdays in my future, giving myself no more reasons to look over my proverbial shoulder to see what I'd left behind, which gave me less stress moving forward and gave me more presence in green lights. Dwelling.
The elimination of dwelling.I'm fascinated on people's inability to understand that there is no time machine.This notion of I wish, it's imperative to learn from pattern recognition, mistakes, strengths, imperative.Dwelling.
looking back and dwelling and spending all of that prevent defense using football.That's something I'm desperate to push on people.I know, I know you made the wrong decision.
Good news, there's absolutely zero chance you're gonna go into a time machine.
So take the learning and just go on fucking offense and eat shit for another six years to give yourself a chance to get to that same fucking road and this time make the fucking right call.
I think it's all offense.I think every step is affirmative even if it's considered going. Backwards, look, going back and looking at 30, 50 years of my diaries was an intimidating idea.
I said, oh shit, I'm gonna be embarrassed, I'm gonna be shamed, I'm gonna feel guilty, I'm gonna be an arrogant prick at this time.I felt all those things, but mostly I ended up laughing at some of these.
I was gonna say, I'm curious the first time you just laughed your ass off.
Well, I mean, stuff I was like, oh, God, it's going to blast.I looked at stuff I was shameful.I was like, oh, well, you kind of already forgave yourself for that.You moved on.
And so a lot of the book is about me going off into solitude at times, which I think is a good practice for everyone to do.And the reason I bring that up is because it's attached to the word dwell, but it's not.
And it plays into that example you just said, six years, go to hell and get out of it. Every time I go away on my own with my backpack on my own, the first 12 days are hell.I do not like the company I'm coming.
How many times have you done that?
And are you saying that the prerequisite to you doing that is often the fact that you know you need it and what you're doing is reconciling with yourself in that early part?
Well, I need memory to catch up.I'm in a world where I'm getting too much frequency.I've got no demarcation between events.I'm kind of playing on autopilot and I'm doing okay, but my head and my heart do not have an auto bond between them.
There's a bit of a dirt road and I got to clean that up.I got to feel my feet on the ground.Spiritually, maybe I feel a little, And so I need to go off and I need to let memory catch up.
I need to go listen to myself and find some discernment into my own judgment.What do I want from me?What's going on in the world?What's the reverb here?What am I giving to it?What's it giving back to me?Get some clarity there.
happens, you know, especially when things are rolling.This is usually coming out of major green lights where I need to go away to go, is that green light plugged into a battery or?
Have you learned that off those epic green lights, that if you don't go do that, you crash from the energy and it puts you into like, you were off of this high, it was rolling, this was so delicious.
And then in that in between, which is completely always natural for all of us, that the drop off, it doesn't feel great.So instead of doing that, you're gonna go on this offense and go take that backpack trip.
And it's gonna make a productive time instead of kind of coming down from the project.Yeah.
Well, the come down will be when you look up and you go, oh, all the affluence that you noticed all these.So half the green lights were plugged into two volt batteries and they were never gonna last very long.
And it's going away to get rid of the ones that are plugged into the toy batteries and going to the ones that, oh, that's solar powered.That's gonna burn forever.That's burning after I'm gone, which takes you back.
So what I hope comes out of the book, man, I hope it can help people find their freedoms.I think people are gonna laugh their ass off.It's some killer stories.I did find out that the stories- Did you work with a ghostwriter?
I work with a ghostwriter for my books, because I'm very conscious scream and it needs to be structured for me.Or were you able to get there?
No, I went solo.I had a guy at the beginning, Steven Kruitz.He was from the New York Times.He had written a cool article on me.I reached out to him.We started to we got together one time.
New York Times pulled him off the project, which then me and my wife, I looked in the mirror.I was like, that's the best gift I could have been given.And she goes, yeah, get your ass out of here.Take your journals.Don't go back.
So packed up steaks and bourbon and been headed out.And so what I hope, man, people get out, I think, you know, I think people are going to see some killer stories.I am a pretty good storyteller.
And the thing I did learn is that I thought telling I've performed a lot of these stories.And I thought if I just transcribe my best performance to the page, that'd be the best written word on the page.It was not.
It need to be about 30 percent shorter.You got to pick a word out.You don't get the lilt of my voice going up to you.Up here comes the punchline.You don't get any of that.So. I think people are gonna find some wisdom bombs in here.
I picked up a lot along the way.I think there's a lot of bumper stickers in here.
To make this fun, cause I know the process of book and it's really, really fun.Any story you can share with us that you haven't shared yet or you have of somebody reading it for the first time, your inner circles, the first 15, 20, 30 people.
and anything that like either collectively they latched on to and or an interesting observation from someone that was fun for you.You were like happy, your cousin or your best friend or your wife.Anything cool like that in the first?
I got a call yesterday from Don Phillips and he's a character in the story.He's the casting director.I introduced myself in Austin, Texas in the summer of 1992. who later on at 3 a.m.
after we got kicked out of a bar and we're smoking a joint on the way home in a cab, he says, you ever done any acting?
And I come to this address tomorrow morning, and there's three lines in this character, which ended up being three weeks work in a film called Days Confused.And I moved in and slept on his couch when I moved out to LA.
And he's the guy who, after about a month, where I'm down to about $800 in my pocket, and I'm telling him, hey man, I need to get an agent.And he snapped at me, gave me one of the best lessons I've ever learned.
This town smells you needy, you're fucking done.He goes, what you need to do is get the hell out of here and go off and get lost somewhere.
Go to Europe, go ride a goddamn motorcycle or something, but quit thinking about making it in Hollywood, because this place smells you needy, you're done.He was right.
That was another, that was one of the guys who actually, a right of passage of a guy pushing me out of wanting something so bad, and he's right.Gotta come in needy. So I headed off.
You come in needy, you give up the leverage.
A month later, I'm not even thinking about getting an agent. Well, now it's time to go get an agent.Cause I'm like, I got stories.I got, I just came from somewhere, man.
Hey everybody, actually, if you're a really hardcore listener, you know, I never do this.I'm sorry to be jumping in the middle of the podcast, but the truth is I'm like shitting the bed on this.
Everybody else is getting people to review on Spotify and Apple and like the Vayner Nation does none of that.Cause I've never asked. If this podcast has ever meant anything to you, please go to Spotify or Apple right now and leave a review.
By the way, even if you give me a one-star review because you think it's shit, I respect it, but just leave a review, an actual review, four or five stars and the actual details of why.Yeah, that would mean something for me, so thanks.
Now back to the podcast. My knowledge in sports, uncomfortably deep, I'm much weaker in like movie culture and like acting culture.I obsessed with Dazed and Confused, like one of my favorite, favorite movies and I'm not even a big movie guy.
There were so many of you in that film.I love those coming of age movies to begin with.Did that, this is probably a very basic question.I'm sure people like booing at me right now as they're listening to this. Did you get instant acclaim from that?
And that was huge leverage?Was it a slow burn?Was it instant?Like what happened?Like movie comes out. Got you in the door.
It got me in the door.It got me in the door.Got people curious.
Got people curious, right?
Yeah.Well, it gave me something for my resume.You know, the agent's not gonna take a meeting with you.
But it wasn't like you, like it wasn't like tons of people reaching out and said, okay.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
I mean, the same age line is like one of the great fucking lines ever.
I call that a launchpad line.That's three weeks, but now I worked off of basically because Richard Lincoln wrote that line.
Oh, is that true?That was the line?
That's the line.I mean, that guy, there's an encyclopedia on that guy.If he believes that he, that's what he loves about high school girls.He gets older. That guy, there's a huge, very thick book on him.
Anyway, I get a call from Don Phillips yesterday and he's in the book and mind you, he's in the book where I show- And how often do you talk to Don in real life now?Like it could run hot and cold, like sometimes- Every couple of months we check in.
every couple of months and we met back in 92.
But he's in the story, you know, I mean, about, I show up at his house when I'm first pulled out to Hollywood on the 26 hour drive from Texas and I show up and he doesn't answer the door and I keep beating on him.
He shows up at the door with a boner and it's basically like, hey, can you come back later?And I'm like, no dude, I just drove 26 hours.So there were things in the book and I called him before them being in the book.
I said, look, I'm gonna tell the truth of our stories.And he's like, great, okay. Well, he read the book and I don't know, he's older.Sometimes people get older in their life and they look back and I'm like, I didn't do that.
Don't talk about me like that.Well, he didn't, he loved it.He goes, man, the book is so humble.It's so true.And I've had a lot of people tell me this.Am I a celebrity?Yeah.Do I tell stories about some of Hollywood?Yeah.
But a lot of people have told me this.One of their favorite things about the book is what it is not. I mean, I'm not a disher.I don't dish on people.I don't tell bedroom stories.And I always say this, that's why there's doors on the bedroom.
That's none of your business.It wouldn't be decent.There are people that I could have named them in the story and would have thrown mud in their face, but I don't have a problem with them.That was who they were.We've forgiven each other.We moved on.
I'm not gonna, I didn't play the victim.
No names, but you create the story.Have any of those people reached out?
Yeah, they have.And in a cool way.Cool way.
Because the more, you know, there's people, like I said, there's people, there's places, everyone's, I don't dish on anybody.I didn't feel like that.That isn't what I wanted it to be.
When I first went to write the book, like I understand I got some equity as an actor. or somebody's gonna buy the book because McConaughey wrote it.Some people won't buy it just because McConaughey wrote it.
Either way, I remember saying this, hey, can you go put words on a page that are worthy of being signed by anonymous, but at the same time, only you could have written it.That's the idea of where I was headed.
I actually have a great question that I'm curious about.How is promoting a book, like doing this show, I've seen some other stuff on social, how is it, Is it, or how is it different than promoting a movie?
Any tidbit there that's kind of funny, anything you've kind of picked up on?
Here's my favorite thing, is this is... I wrote this one, I directed it, I produced it.I don't have to prepare.Look, I've gone out and I'm honored with what I was able to put out.
I've gone and chosen to sell movies before where maybe I didn't love the movie and it wasn't getting a great reaction.And I can tell if you saw it, you go, yeah, interesting stuff.It was cool.
So anyway, Makana- You've gotta be a professional, right.
pick out two things that I'm saying that I wrote down that are my positive sort of go-to things to say about the movie.But now I don't have to prepare for any of this.I wrote- Can I ask you a question?
I actually have a fun question.The movie that when you read it, And this might be a tough question.I don't even, again, I truly don't have a good sense of Hollywood culture enough to know if this is a tough question or not, but I'm gonna ask it.
Cause I'm just genuinely curious.Cause I, some of the, you know, as a businessman, some of the ideas I have in my head. to then see how I executed it.I'm like, this sucks.And I control a lot of that.As an actor, you don't.
Literally, you thought everything was gonna be epic, and then it just didn't post well.You know, like the post-production, you're like, fuck, really?What movie were you most hyped about? And then you were like, fuck man, that didn't go.
And then in reverse, what movie were you, and by the way, it might be something you thought was gonna be an A++++ and was a B-, I'm not talking A and F. And then in reverse, what movie were like you most, like you were most, and whether it was your age and your wife, the reverse.
So yeah, which one did you come in the hottest?And we're like, eh.And which one were you coming in with the most like, I don't know, and like, holy fuck.
Well, all right, let me answer this. All right, I could say this, man, to answer the second half.Dallas Buyers Club was a movie we made for $4.9 million in 25 days.That was a movie that almost like never got made and we willed that into existence.
By now, I ask permission.
And that movie, again, I claim I don't know a lot, but for some, because it was such an epic one and you were fucking insane and it was so epic, that movie was bouncing around as a story for a while, right?
I was attached to it for about five, six years before, but no one would make it with me. No one wanted to make it.
I'm making it, again, my lack of knowledge, just putting up the money to do it.No one's gonna pay for the money.
A period piece drama with McConaughey in the lead?No, no, no, he's rom-com shirtless guy.That doesn't make any sense, no way.Right, right, right.
Right, because you were coming off of that.Yeah.Yeah, you were in that place.And by the way, as an actor, is that important?Are you sitting there and saying, fuck, if I don't show some other side, I'm rom-com to the end?
Well, check this out.And you'll see when you check out this part of the book, and it's part of those affirmative ways to not to dwell, but to go into a penance to get out the other side.I look up and notice, I'm rom-com, romantic comedy guy.
And I'm owning this because I'm like, you're damn right.Those rom-coms are paying for the house that I'm renting on the beach that I'm going shirtless on.
But I did notice, well, I wanna do some other thing.No, no, no, no, you can't do that.And I noticed, I was like, oh, the industry and the public are nothing other than rom-com shirtless guy on the beach.
That's when I went, okay, well, if I can't do what I wanna do, I gotta quit doing what I've been doing.And I went off back down to Texas and hit out and called my agent and money people and everything said, I'm not doing those anymore.
20 months, nothing, no work.20 months.
And are peeps getting antsy around you?Like, hey motherfucker, do one.
No, I called it early on.I mean, I called, believe me, I dropped tears to make the decision, because I was like, I even thought about changing careers.Now, mind you this, at that time, this is when Hollywood really got the message.
About six months into that sabbatical, I'm saying, I'm not doing those.An offer comes in for a script at $8 million.I said, no, thank you.They come back $10 million.I say, no, thank you.They come back at $12.5 million.They come back at $14.5 million.
I say, let me read that script again. I read the script, Gary Vee.Guess what?And it was the exact same words as the original offer.But I read that script again and it was better written.It was.It was better written.
The $14.5 million was better written.
The $14.5 million, you did it?
Was that movie made?Wait, real quick for fun, I love this shit.Was that movie made?
Did not make it. They did not make it.
Hey, by the way, on that note, one of my other favorite things about Hollywood that I don't know the story is the way I know sports.
Anything that you passed on that went on to slay and the actor fucking crushed any of the, you have any of those in your.
I got there.I was offered a role in LA confidential.And I don't remember if it was the, I don't remember the Cole role or the guy role, but I loved that movie.And that was a really good one.
I was off timing.Was it money?Was it you weren't into like what, what ended up happening?
It was right around the time when a time to kill was coming out.
So all of a sudden I go from a weekend, I go from a Friday before time to kill comes out, which is the movie that came out that sort of, I was the lead in, it was a big studio film the Friday before that comes out.
I'm wanting to do any 100 of these scripts you're offering.But you're telling me, Holly was telling me 99 times, no, one of them you can do.Well, Monday, 60 something hours later, it inverted.99 out of these hundreds you can do, yes.
It was that, it was that.Whoa, wait a minute.What am I supposed to do with all these yeses?How do I get some discernment and discrimination in these yeses?I don't know.Three days ago, I would have done any of these.
Now you're telling me I can do all of them. I need 24 hours in a day and they're not giving it.So I said, I passed cause I just wasn't sure.I wasn't sure a lot of stuff at that time.So yeah, movies, here's the thing with me on movies.
I haven't, I've never done or been a part of a piece of art that actually met my expectations.Do you think you ideologically decided it will never happen?
because of the way the machine works.Like I kind of weirdly understand what you just said, which is why I'm going to where I'm going with this question.
Do you believe that's because you were observant enough to understand the macro and thus immediately deemed it will never happen?
I think we may be saying the same thing.What I'm saying is earlier when I said, there's no such thing as a trophy.
I don't ever, I've done, look, some things have been different and better than I thought they would be, but nothing has ever been, nor has any performance I've ever done gone, ah, perfection.
Now I- What about you watching someone else, you know, in the cocoon of your business industry, because I'm sure your relationship with the industry ebbs and flows.
It's like me with wine, but in it, in it, and when you were really observing, did you ever watch a performance and say, and said, my, Jesus fuck, like what the fuck was that?
But really, really, really, because there's those incredible performances, I know that, but like from your perspective, because it's subjective, just curious what hit your radar is like, fuck.
You know, let me just say this, I like making movies more than I like watching them. I haven't even seen all the ones I've been in.
And it's not because of any, I just, I just, we were talking earlier about that gap between what we wanna do and what we actually get done, all right?
There's a gap between what I wanna do, what we do in a raw performance and what's actually getting recorded on the camera.Then there's a gap between what's recorded in the camera and what's edited.
And then there's a gap between what's edited and what's in the final picture.That's right.Dieback can be like, what's different about the book door? The example I just said is four filters away from the raw expression.
This is one filter away because it's a written word.You and I right now is the filterless.Stand up comedy is the filterless.
I love it so much.The way I give keynotes has nuances of it because it's the most unfiltered.
That's it.That's the nectar.That's the really straight one-on-one without a filter translation.
Have you ever cried when your favorite sports team lost the game? For real?
What's the most pain you ever felt in a loss in sports?
The most pain I ever felt in a loss.
while you're thinking I'm gonna buy you a few seconds, I cried multiple times, like six to 12 times a year in sports up until 22 years old and then just stopped.
I cried when Garrison Hurst broke off a 98 yard run against Jets in overtime in 1998 in week one of the NFL season.I was like crying, literally fucking crying. And I think, and that was the last time, by the way.
And I wonder if I realized somewhere in that moment that I'm 23 years old.It's week one, it's week one.
Oh my God, you must be crying a lot now.
Oh man, it's real rough right now.But honestly, it's funny, this might really strike you.I'm a huge sports fan.The Rangers in 94 and in the end, New York Rangers in 94 and the Yankees in 96. became my first two championships.
You know, I started in 82 with all four teams.And literally, literally, the second they both won their championships, I basically have not watched a single game.
Like I've watched a little bit here and I've never watched, I don't know if I think I've watched a complete game of either team since their championship.
All journey, all journey.
Which is why that shit, it's one thing to be like kind of passive after a championship.Most people double down after a championship.I'm completely like, and I don't say it with a badge of honor.I'm just fascinated by how real that is to me.
Well, what's more, I think I understand what you're talking about.I mean, the trophy, the championship is the noun, it's static.It's got a period at the end of it.The getting to it is the verb.
It's the motion.Why do you think I like the jet so much?It's so fun to be this shit.I'm the happiest.
You've got good job security with enjoying this jet.
I mean, that's true. Talk to me about wine a little bit.I know that, you know, we've through the years and talked about that.Like, where are you in that journey?Like, you like it, you don't, obviously bourbon, you talk a lot about, you love that.
Like, where do you sit with wine, if any?
Red guy, I'm intermediate guy.I've been introduced, I've got friends that know a whole lot more about wine than I do that turn me on too.
And you like a lot of others enjoy that six guy, 10 people together, like that wine night is like a fun night for you?Sure.Yeah.
Yeah, and like I said, I like to, you know, I'm also a fan of a little bourbon and some tequila as well.
But no, come on.In a finals match, bourbon versus tequila, is it bourbon wins or tequila win?
Ooh.Ooh, I don't know.That one, that's a good one.
Let's go back to that other question you had a minute ago.2010 University of Texas. national championship game against Alabama.Yes, our quarterback gets dinged on the goal line early in the like the opening drive and he's out.We get beat.
Ooh, we didn't have our starting quarterback for the rest of the game.What would have happened?
That was a that was a what if hurt.
What about UT basketball?Have you ever historically gotten hardcore about that?Or has it only been football?
I'm getting more hardcore.Interesting.Yeah, because I'm getting to be friends with our coach, Chuck Smart.I've gotten to know some of the young men on the team.
So you're starting to get in more.
And we're building an arena, which I'm- Part of.A part of culture and over there, the new arena where the men and women are gonna play basketball.
I love that.What about startup culture?I know that a lot of my friends in startup culture have nice relationships with you.The Silicon Valley, the app culture, like where do you sit with technology?
leaning and learning into it more now than I ever was before.Friends of Art, Guy Osiris, introducing me to things and learning a new vernacular is what I've actually learned.
There are a lot of startups in Austin that some of them I'm reaching out to that I like their product and they're in Austin and we could have some part and parcel
partnership in between the two of us and a business that I'm starting there in Austin with the Minister of Culture work.So I'm learning more about it.You're flirting more in that arena.I'm definitely flirting more and understanding it.
And if I asked you entrepreneurial spirit, where do you sit today at 50?Were you a lemonade stand kid?Did you hustle that way?Was it more art and storytelling?Has it grown?
Like- I'm more entrepreneur now than I ever was at 50.And it's part, to go back to another word you mentioned, it's legacy choices now. So what are the choices that I can create?
This Ministry of Culture is a category that actually I assumed and created.A lot of people think it's political.I'm like, no, no, no, it's in the slipstream.
It's about values and it's bipartisan and non-denominational and it can still also be a business.So at 50, I'm going, what choices can I make that I can hand off to my kids and they can hand off to their kids?That's gonna be my shadow that goes on.
And I don't know, I'll do more movies, but movies are capsulized, they're little pieces of time.I'm trying to challenge myself to go, hey, the big show is life, it's live.The recorder's always on.
But it's awesome that you're, I think a lot of, I watch a lot of people in all arenas just kind of completely walk away from a thing that was the major stepping stone.I've always liked the idea of like, I'll go back to movies.
To me, I started a wine brand last year, I sold it recently, but I always kind of knew, even though I really needed to walk away from wine, because it was all I did, that I would come back to it.
But at that time, call it 2011 to 2019, I just didn't want to as much.And even now, I'm like, and I will again in 17 years.I think people close doors that are usually their first step, almost out of ideology,
or out of not realizing that, yeah, cool, you're burnt out now, but don't put a final nail in the coffin.You don't have any clue where you might be in a decade mentally about that thing.
Right.Well, so like you just, you sold your wine, you were into it.It was a, it was an obsession.You sold it.Was that like the, your, your Yankees win the championship that you threw it away?Or do you have it sitting out there?
That one's a little sweeter.I started it only 18 months ago.So this is the winery, not my dad's wine store, which he still owns and operates my family business.I started a winery 18 months ago.That one has a much more warm feeling in my soul.
I had two partners in that business, Nate Schroeder and John Troutman.They started as interns for me a decade ago.
So the story of like, it just like the thought that the collateral of my skillset could put these two young men who I adore, like younger brothers in a position that changes the course of their lives, at least financially, which is only a piece of it, but a piece of it.
was too romantic to say no when the opportunity came.That drove me remarkably in a very serious way.That's what drove that decision.
Well, so that door is always open.There's no final trophy on that.Cause those two young men, you're gonna enjoy watching where they go and how they do it.
Even more fun back to leadership and coaching.I've got a thousand employees right now that I have at least 60 of my people in that ecosystem of like wanting to rep.So yeah, there's nothing more fun than loving people.Loving people.
is a imperpetuity game of happiness.I often make jokes about not liking animals, because A, I probably skew under most people with like dogs and other things, but I really believe it's because of my love affair with humans.
Like walking down the street, I have a warmth towards people and I really recognize that most people don't go there.
Let's lean into this to where we are right now and where we're heading, all right?I got asked this the other day, where do you lie on trust, Makai?And I'm like, I hadn't thought about it.
And the person asked me and I said, look, I go into, I'm talking to you right now.You have 100% of my trust until you don't.Same. I don't think enough of us are looking at the world that way right now.
Major distrust and major disbelief and you come in with zero until you earn it.I hate that shit.I hate that shit.I hate that.
Who the fuck are you?Why are you so fucking audacious?Who the fuck made you special enough that another human has to Earn it, fuck you.Where's your humility?I'm 100% trust.As a matter of fact, I fight a lot of times.
I need to work on myself to try, like when trust is broken, I'm still trying to come up with empathetic scenarios for the other person.I would be very bad at baseball.I think I'm seven strikes and you're out.
Like three strikes don't even fucking register for me.And that's something, now what that's done is also created a subconscious resentment that I've had to become as I continue to go through my process.I'm like, oh, right.
I think that it's seven strikes and you're out.But what's happening is with each strike, there's a little bit of like, you know, fluid going into that bucket of resentment.I might be able to eat it because I'm strong and I don't care.
But I'm building it.So I have to be more thoughtful of having candorous conversations with people I care about so I don't get there. That's my tweak.
I hear you.I can't allow seven strikes, but I hear you.That's a resilience.You're going, no, I can handle it.I can handle it.I can handle it.
If someone does scar me and on the role of forgiveness and moving on, man, if I see a real sense of retribution and on their end wanting to go, hey, I bogeyed.I screwed up.I'm sorry. Very quick, I'm quicker than I forgive myself.
Brother, I love you for that.And that leads to foundational happiness.It just does. Real quick, cause I know you have to run.I'm just curious, you and social media, do you use anything?
Do you have a burner accounts that say, but Tommy is actually awesome.Like, how do you, how do you, how do you roll with social?
Like which one do you like?I started, I started Instagram just I think about a year ago.And you know, I've been flirting with the idea for years.The thing that sounds with me is I was going like, Ah, the rabbit hole of that conversation.
I've got three kids, man.I got a family.It's like they're, you know, they offer me, they're always coming, come on, play fantasy football.I'm like, I don't need another hobby.I got, I really don't like it and I want to do it.
And the whole Instagram thing, I was like, I'm afraid I'm going to like it a lot and I'm going to do it too much.So I came out and I remember my opening, I had to look. It's a monologue guys.
Yes, it's a one way street.
I don't wanna dive into late night looking at a comment on every single thing I said because I'll feel it.And I wanna engage in it and get back to conversation.So I'm choosing about where I have the conversation.
Nice work Dustin.Do you find yourself following certain people or certain accounts and getting a little bit of like escapism value from it?
Or is it mainly, I'm in the mood to say something and I'm gonna just say it and it's a monologue and I'm out.
It's mainly, I'm in the mood to share something.Hey, this is a pulse I'm feeling out there in the world right now.This is a pulse I'm feeling in America or something that's going on in my life.I'd like to share this.
I will then re-engage with certain people that I will. follow or listen to and check in with, but I don't have it.
I'm not ready to have that, nor do I know if I ever will be, to have that on my proverbial, good morning, now let me go sit down with my IG world.
Because like I said, I got three kids and a wife and a job and I like my own solitude and I'd rather do as much as I can live here as I can.
October 20th.That's the date.
It's a date, green lights.And that's the idea, man.How can we create more than for ourselves and others?As you said, be selfish and selfless at the same time.Those are not contradictions.
We can make the choices that are best for the I, that are also best for the we.
The second you get best for the eye, your ability to be a champion of we, exponentially grows.
Boom.Boom.And where are we misinformed on that?I don't know where along the way people misinformed.
There's a lot of things.There's so much, you listen. This is why communication, videos, books, monologues, or somebody like me that posts and spends eight hours engaging, like this is why we need all different versions.
One sentence in that book can change the way someone looks at it.VaynerNation, I know that I have a lot of pride in this.A lot of my friends are just people that have randomly emailed me.The book PR community very much knows this has been a show that
is a substantial driver and it's because you're curious.And I think if you re-listen the first 10 minutes, clearly if you're getting value out of me, I have some serious confidence that you're gonna get value out of this book.
So Greenlights, make sure you pick it up.Makani, thank you so fucking much for being on the show.
I enjoyed it, Gary.Look forward to the next time, bud.
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