Hello and welcome to How to Win the Lottery, season 10 of Vermont, book one, The Shame by McKenna Goodman.I'm Joey Lewandowski.I am Shreds and a very happy Halloween to you.We are in the middle of September.
I was just saying to Shreds that a future episode we record, I'm just like, it's Halloween.It's no longer Halloween because I was a week off my calendar, but happy Halloween.
Happy Halloween in our hearts. Are you one of those Halloween guys?I don't know.I don't know anything about it.
Are you one of those Halloween guys?
You know, like, uh, I know you're not like one of those guys that like, you don't have like a Jack Skellington hoodie or anything like that, but like, although it wouldn't be out of your character to have like a Jack Skellington shirt that has some Japanese writing on it.
I don't really care about the movie one way or the other, but when Phoebe was doing the live thing in London, I was just like, this is Phoebe Bridgers that we're talking about.I'm not a Jack Skellington guy.I'm not a this is Halloween guy.
I like horror movies, but that's about as far as it gets.Yeah.Yeah.There's always like a pressure to have a costume for what's what's like, what's a memorable costume that you've had? Want when I was in elementary school, I won a costume contest.
Maybe I was like in preschool.
Yeah Okay, he was really good.No, I was I was Jack Ruby one year.So Clark Kent and Superman I was Superman underneath and Clark Kent and then I just like peaked a shirt It was a shirt and has the whole report because your dad's a Superman.
Yeah.Oh, man, these parents know they really like mm-hmm
But happy Halloween to all of our listeners.
Happy Halloween to all of you.100% the first Vermont book that we have read and covered and recorded.
I forgot that we're doing things out of order.
Cause you started reading the next book.So like you, at some point in this episode you have to vow to drink a gallon of maple syrup.
Is that something I talk about in the next thing?
I asked how it was going next episode.
Well I, that's the only callback we set up in the next episode.
Between this episode and the next episode, I will drink a gallon of maple syrup.
I got some Vermont facts.
So next time, spoiler, we'll talk about famous Vermonters, Vermonteers and Vermonters.
I got some basic stuff.I like to start off these state modules with like some basic Vermont facts.Do you know what number state it was?14th.14th.First one after the colonies.Do you know its nickname?
I believe they is it the Green Mountain State?It is.Yeah.
I believe they mentioned it a couple of times in the next book.Do you know the capital of Vermont?Is it Berlin?Nope.That's the biggest town.Montpellier.Montpellier.Yeah.Montpellier.Is that it?Small state capital in the US.Yep.
The only US capital without a McDonald's.
All right.Well, Bill McKibben would love that.
became the first of four states, this is in 1960.By the way, I'm doing really well.You're doing really well.
Yeah, I'm doing really well with my Vermont knowledge right now.
In 1968, Vermont was the first of four states to ban billboards.That's awesome.Do you know of the three other states that have banned billboards?
Is it like New Hampshire?
No, there's one that's close.There's one that's like, follow that train of thought.
North Dakota?South Dakota? Oregon?Mm-mm.Idaho?Mm-mm.Whaling?Mm-mm.Fuck, I don't know.
Alaska.Okay.And Hawaii.All right.Apparently have all banned billboards.How many area codes do you think are in Vermont?Four.One.Wow.They're all 802.Holy shit.Do you know what states border Vermont?Canada is the northern border.
Uh, New York, Maine, New Hampshire, New York, New Hampshire, and Connecticut, Massachusetts, Massachusetts.Yeah.That's what I meant.Cause Connecticut's below Massachusetts.
So largest city, Burlington us, you guys have before population at 45,000.It is number 49, the state number 49 in population 43 in land area.We'll talk about that more in the next episode.First in the country to legally recognize same sex couples.
Lead producer of maple syrup in the US.It seems obvious.I'm going to give you different numbers.I want you to guess how much maple syrup it produced.This says 2024, so I don't know if this is to date.
Do you think it is 300,000 gallons, 3 million gallons, or 30 million gallons?
300,000 gallons.3.1 million gallons.Holy fuck.That's too many.It's too many gallons of maple syrup.
Has more than 500 dairy farms on more than 900,000 acres of land.124,000 cows in Vermont.
And the final fact. It leads the nation in breweries per capita, with 58 breweries as of last year.
These are all like Bill McKibben facts.Like he would be really happy to hear you saying all this.
There is one sort of correction I will say to the next episode.There are apparently two presidents from Vermont.And I don't remember who they were.I didn't write it down.Well, one was Calvin Coolidge.Yeah, that's the one I remember.
That's the one that I got.
McKinley, maybe? Yeah, sure.
Something.Anyway, we're talking about The Sheen by McKenna Goodman, our first Vermont book.
How can you, um, can you shape this as a Vermont novel for me?
I was making notes of, does this feel Vermont?
I think it feels Vermont the most when she is in New York.
It's in, it's in like the first couple sentences of the, of the book.She's like, I'm here in Vermont.
I think it's her fish-out-of-waterness of being in New York City, of being in Brooklyn, that just like, oh, this is not home.
I also think, and this is maybe a stereotypical Vermont thing, but the job offer she gets for like an ethical toy manufacturer, I'm like, that's some Vermont-ass shit right there, you know what I mean?
Yeah, it's interesting to see the ways in which Vermont sort of, there's like a Venn diagram of Vermont and Williamsburg. You know, um, and like Vermont, it obviously feels like the more authentic version of those things, the way that like.
is the more authentic version of, of like that hip, like hipster culture.
Um, like once you end up in like people, people in, in Brooklyn with the, with the fucking, well, they're trying to have that, but also live in a place with like concerts and stuff.
But in, in Brooklyn, when people have handlebar mustache, you're just like, ah, come on.You're just like doing that thing that they're doing over there.
It's like, oh, there's a mean guy with a mustache like that.
Yeah. But other than that, I think this is one of the books sort of like sunburn, where it's like, it's where the book happens.It's not a bad thing.
No, no, no.And I think it's interesting that, I think it does play into, we got a bunch of facts about Vermont and the isolation of it.And that sort of, I think that plays into it a little bit, that it's not like, she lacks community.
If you take it by, I hate to keep on bringing up Bill McKibben, but if you take it by his thing, it's like Vermont is a very neighborly place.So if you lack community there because of the isolation, maybe it's a you problem.
I also think that there is, if she were in Brooklyn, I think there would be more acceptance.This is not exactly, not exactly what you're saying, but it's related.
Like it's tangentially related where it's, if she's like, I don't want to be a mom, I want to be a blank in Brooklyn, be like, do it.But in Vermont, it's like, no, you're a mom.
Yeah.There's more like quote unquote, maybe traditional values in Vermont.
Cause this is a book about a woman, effectively is tired of being a mom, sort of falls in love with, or becomes enamored by an influencer, or maybe just the normal person she finds on Instagram.
Which is a person that she's kind of created too.
Yep.And she leaves her family to go try to figure out what, not a relationship, but not like a sexual relationship, but be like, What would it be like if this person were in her life?That's kind of what it is.
And she's also a artist.She's a writer.And a painter.And a painter.And she is trying to deal with this idea that being a mother and a wife, does not feel like her authentic self, that her authentic self has these high art ideals for who she is.
And so when she has the opportunity to write and make money doing it, it's for this hyper-commercialized thing that she doesn't really want to do, even though she has fun doing it.
But she doesn't want to do it because it's sort of compromising who she is as an artist. And she doesn't see why her husband gets to do the thing that he wants to do and feel fulfilled about it Where at where she has to stay at home, right?
And lose so much of herself to both being a wife and a husband even though there is a part in the book where she talks about how her husband What is he's like, we'll do my thing for however, and then whenever you feel like oh, yeah It becomes clear that like that's never good.
The switch is never which I think is I Probably common.
That's the game, right?Like, and then, and then when the switch comes, it's like, oh, do you really want to like start over?You're such a good mom.
Do you want to start over in a small apartment where we don't have any money with this kid and take her away from her friends or, and, and like start life over again?No, nobody wants that.
So it's like saying like the first five years are for me and then the next five years can be for you is really saying the whole time is going to be for me.Right.But that is something that the novel is confronting as,
And confronts Asa, the, that's the husband's name, right?
It's Alma and Asa.Her name only mentioned like two or three times in very brief passing.
Asa is engaging in a kind of male privilege where he gets to be a good guy.He gets to be like the nice guy, the caring guy, but also like through his.
Also the provider and the well-respected member of the community, like the collegiate community.
Yeah.And, but like in, in, So there's like a facade of deniability, right?Like he's not denying her who she is.He's in some ways encouraging her to be like he can be as encouraging as he wants, but like.
I don't know if there's a way for him to, like, quote-unquote win at this, but everything that he's doing is still slowly, like, stripping her identity away from her.
She has to lose herself in social media, which I think is something that a lot of us do, right?By sort of attaching herself to personalities that aren't hers.
imagining her life in these circumstances imagining friends and our friends imagining like what her day looks like if she Didn't have these things if you weren't tied down in this way You had compared it to a touch of Jen which we did in the internet module Elaborate on that because I have an I have another comparison where a young woman finds
like an influencer that she becomes obsessed with and models herself after and sort of injects herself into this person's life.Yeah.And then it sort of devolves from there into some craziness.
But it's I think it's I think it struck me as seeing someone who seems to have it all on Instagram and being like.Not necessarily I want their life, but also like their life seems glamorous.I wish I had I wish my life was more like that.
Which is interesting you you mentioned that to me when I wasn't I hadn't even started reading the book yet And you you had messaged me and said like oh, this is giving me a touch of Jen vibes And when I read it, I thought it reminded me a lot of night bitch Which we also covered the the Rachel Yoder novel adaptable because that book is also about like a woman losing herself Losing her sense of identity to her family.
Um a mother feeling trapped
Yeah, but that novel is much more triumphant in that she she does take that.Yeah.The animalistic side of her and engages in it in a way that ends up making really good art, whereas the narrator in this novel doesn't do that.
Well, she it seems like she starts to like she.
As she's putting the kids to sleep she has like an hour while she can't really get up because her son or daughter is Falling asleep as she moves to start the whole thing over again And so she has like this hour to like fill with her imagination She's like this the only time of the day that I feel like myself because I have like time to myself and she starts writing stories or imagining stories and then like rushing to write them down and
And starts like writing a thing and then that's just sort of becomes imagining what Celeste, this woman in Brooklyn who seems to have it all.Yeah.What her life must be like.
So Celeste also exists in this place where she is sort of, um, a, there is a name for it, like a, a, a demonic or spiritual double that I'm, that I'm, I'm blanking on what it's called.Um,
No, it is not an avatar.But although I guess she, she exists as an avatar for the freedoms and all the things that she doesn't want, but, but the, our narrator creates in a sense, creates Celeste into this person that she wants to be.
It becomes very weird when she starts stalking her and following her around and stuff like that.
Well, it feels like, oh, this has become a thriller, but there's also, she realizes and you realize, oh, Celeste does not know what this woman looks like.
And so she happens, she like goes to Brooklyn, she like email Celeste to say. I've been following your journey online.I think it'd be a great nanny for your kids.Like I have like all this experience, blah, blah, blah.
And like, there's this thing like, is she going to abandon her children to basically caretake for another woman's children?
Which is an interesting, like, it's an interesting thing to say, like, I need a change of pace in my life.
I'm gonna do the same thing, sort of.
Yeah, I'm gonna do the same thing, but in service of someone else.
Well, I also thought like, in this moment, and this is also spoilers from it, I can't really, it's like Tully.
Yeah, I thought that too, actually.
Where, spoilers for Tully, where, you know, Charlize Theron hires this nanny, but it's really just her as a younger person.She's imagining, like, getting help from her younger self.
And is also fulfilling her husband's sexual needs and stuff like that in a way that is maybe not the most feminist thing I've ever committed to screen.
And I think, well, that's the Reitman Juno, Reitman Diablo Cody thing.
No, I mean, I think, again, it's more complicated than that.No, no.I think I also think it's a good movie.Yeah, yeah.I'm not, I'm not, I actually liked Diablo Cody quite a bit as a writer.
Me too.I even saw Paradise.Nobody saw Paradise.
The Russell Brand vehicle Paradise. Right?That's a Russell Brand movie.
It's Chris.It's behind you on the shelf.
You own, you own the film paradise.That's a, that's a step.That's a bridge too far.Wait, maybe I don't think it's, is not, this is not important.
I'm curious.We'll keep going.
And how does it, how does the book end? Well, cause we're already kind of at the end here.
Yeah.Well, so she, she's like, she goes to Brooklyn because Celeste gets back and was like, Oh my God, this seems perfect.Like let's meet up.And so the book starts at the end where she is driving to somewhere.
It's like having abandoned her children.
It feels like, Oh, she's like starting a new life, but it's just like, she's driving from Vermont down to Brooklyn, a couple hours.
And she is just like stomping around Celeste neighborhood and then accidentally run like literally runs into Celeste.Yeah, but Celeste does not know who she is.And it seems like she's very clearly fish out of water.
And then she gets like knocked out cold to try to chase her down, like slips and falls and hits her head and that gets knocked out cold on the subway.And then she's like, Well, I guess this is fun, but I got to go home.
Yeah, well, when she gets knocked down, does she... I'm trying to make connections to... I'm trying to make this intertextual.She, like, kind of crashes into Celeste, right?Yes.So there is this sense there in that... But Celeste does not stop.
She just keeps going.But Celeste is her double. And so like, we have this idea that doubles out in the world, like doubles making contact with each other, um, causes like the erasure of identity or the blankness, the explosion of one.
It's sort of, maybe that's thematic to Dostoevsky is the double.
Well, there's also like the thing in like time travel movies or like alternate dimensions, like don't touch yourself.Like if you touch yourself, like you're both going to get arrested.
Yeah.Yeah.So I think that's kind of what's going on here too.Like she wakes up and it's like, okay, then that dream is dead.And, and I no longer like this person has disappeared.Yep.Cause, cause I get the sense.
I mean, I, I was thinking throughout the novel, I wasn't thinking that it was like realistic.I wasn't thinking of it as a realistic novel.I was thinking of it as that Celeste was not,
It was like an emotional journey or something that Celeste was a symbol, not a real, not a real thing or person, something that was a creation.And so, and this creation exists as, as a double of, of Alma.Is that her name?Alma.Alma.
What's the, what's the, what's the title about?Why is it called the shame?
I mean, I think it's like the, the titular shame is like, The societal thing that like I also for the record do not own paradise.Um, good.That's the shame that I don't own paradise.
No, I think the shame is that you have done this thing that like society is like for, you know, in a patriarchal society, like, Woman's job to use to marry and bear children and raise those children, right?
And I think the shame here is I don't want that life and like creating that and then leaving it the shame is her abandoning her I think so a child is it or do you see a different?
No, no, that's not it.That's what I think of this too.Yeah, I feel like we've read a lot of books about motherhood Yeah, is that is that true?
Like I think ducks Newburyport specifically night, bitch This maybe that maybe that maybe there's not that many books about motherhood
There's probably more.Yeah, I do. I thought there was gonna be a different book when I started.Cause like the opening thing was like her.
It's very like fantastical.
And it's very funny.Like the book, the book is not not funny, but it's way funnier in this opening thing where she's like, imagine she's on like, there's like a growing pool of lava that you have to sprint and like outside.
I think it's a metaphor, but like she's shooting down birds and stepping on their courses.And outside of the pool of lava, there is like endless supply of like pasta salad or whatever, pasta and salad, whatever.
And it's just, I think it's always like the grass is always greener, but I'm like, It's like a weird book.
That was the book that you wanted.You want you wanted like a big weird.
No, I just.So when we were when we were talking when we last recorded the next episode, we were talking about how the last module, the ego module was so depressing.And Radio Free Vermont is an easier read.
And then you were saying without either of us having started this book, With a title like this, it's probably gonna be a little bit bleaker.Yeah.So I was expecting kind of like a downer of a look, which it kind of is.
It's not uber depressing, but it's it's not.
I was expecting the Steve McQueen movie shame.Like I was like, no, not like I wasn't expecting like.Like Fassbender hanging down.I wasn't.
No, I wasn't expecting the Steve McQueen movie to be like an adaptation of this, but I was expecting that level of bleakness.Like when you when you title your your
Novel out of one of like the principally harrowing emotions right or shame is one of the things that we all deal with and and like causes arguably like a maybe shapes our personality more than almost anything else.
I mean, when you talk, when you, if you have a therapist, like shame, I think is one of the main things that you end up talking with your therapist about.If, theoretically, not that I would ever see a therapist.
Yeah, so I was expecting it to be a little bleaker than this, but also, like culturally, this is not a dig at McKenna Goodman. This is not a Dick and McKenna Goodman.Culturally, we're in a much, much.
more relaxed place about accepting this idea of a woman.
Wanting more than just motherhood.
Wanting more than just motherhood.Then we would have been 10, 15, 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago.If this book came out in 1950, it would have been like, holy fuck, like what a, what a novel.
And now it's like, it's like, this is an accurate representation of a thing that I think a lot of people feel, but it's also an accurate representation of a thing that a lot of people have said.
So this is like a shame that exists, but now it's a collective shame that many people feel.And that if you express this shame, there is going to be an army of people that are like, fuck you, get back in the kitchen, da da da.
But they're also going to have a number of people that are going to relate to it and not relate to it quietly.
Like if you if you release this book in 1950 there would I guarantee there would be a ton of women that would read and go like Fuck yes, but you probably most of them would so so that idea I wouldn't be like allowed to buy the book or like be seen reading the book.
Yeah, so that idea of shame is like this this book is The shame of this book is much easier to bear, which is like such a snotty thing for me to say as a dude that will never have to face this.
This is an interesting time to express that shame because now you will have a ton of people that come to your side and it doesn't mean there aren't gonna be a ton of people that are still out there trying to like get you to go trad wife or whatever that shit is.
Fuck those people forever.They can suck a fart out of my, where farts come from.
There's also a chance that the shame is just like Instagram addiction. I don't think it's compelling, but I'm just thinking of other things.I'm looking back at books we've covered to talk about motherhood.
Fever dream, kind of motherhood, uh, more other stuff, but also motherhood.Um, I mentioned earlier, sunburn is kind of like she packs up and leaves.Like that's, that's the, that's the novel there.
Book of unknown Americans is partially about motherhood.Night bitch.Of course, each more kind of crying, each one kind of, but like in reverse, but also kind of daughterhood. And then going back to earlier, there's more for sure.
But like, there's a handful of my things that like, yeah, yeah.
I don't know that a book about pool of lava shooting down birds with a, with a bow and arrow that I said, I, you'd never said I couldn't have, I could have or whatever to get an unlimited pasta and salad soups on breadsticks, whatever.
Um, I don't know, that's the book I want, but I was worried about something really super uber bleak and being like, Oh, this is not what I expected.
And then like, it doesn't really go back to that.
So, right.So I don't know, like your question, like, is that the book you want?Like, I don't think so.
But I also you were relieved to have that be the start of the book.
Another Trump era book, the next book will be a Trump era, but talking about kids in cages and her kid, her her kids being like, is that going to happen to me?And she's like, no, I mean, probably not.But no, we never know.
Yeah.Like, I find that kind of like I cringe a little with Trump books.When people mention Trump directly, I'm always kind of like, ah, it feels like easy pickings here.
When he got elected in 2016, I was like, this is going to inspire a wave of amazing art.
I think a lot of people thought that.
Instead, what we just got was anger, which, you know, justified, but like Broad City, for instance, like saying his name, but bleeping it out.I'm just like, this is just, it feels lazy.It just feels like there are better ways to like,
express disappointment or something.Frustration.
And also like, like it also always feels to me like the mentioning of Trump in books.
Which I don't know that his name is mentioned, but like stuff he did is mentioned.
It's almost never, it almost never feels like a legitimate critique of him.It always feels like a wink, wink, Hey reader, we're on the same side here, right?Which, is not honestly not something that I'm looking for in art.
I don't, I don't, I don't need that.
I was surprised at the end of the book when she, when we catch back up to the beginning and she is driving to Brooklyn, she doesn't have a plan.
Like her husband's frantically calling her, texting her, emailing her, whatever, but she's going to coffee shops, clothing stores and ostensibly just using her credit card.
So he would know exactly where she is. Like she's not really trying to start a new life.Or maybe that's the point, like she never actually intended to.For sure.Right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.I don't even think about stuff like that, because I don't think of like...
But you just think about like in that kind of story where someone's like, I'm starting a new life.They go to the ATM, they get out the maximum amount of cash they can get.Like, I'll figure the rest out later.
But here, I mean, she probably, I think she paid for it.Cause like there's the scene where she spills the coins on the ground at the coffee shop and she's very embarrassed and whatever, but she's not paying for this $150 sweater or whatever in cash.
Like she's probably charging it.So I'm just thinking about like this type of story, this type of trope just maybe goes to show she didn't actually intend to,
Tulpa was the word that I was thinking of before.Tulpa?Tulpa.I'm not 100% sure that that's the right word.I may be using it incorrectly.
T-O-L-P-A?T-U-L-P-A.T-U- like mea culpa?Is it Latin?
In Tibetan Buddhism and later traditions of mysticism and paranormal, a tulpa is a materialized being or thought form, typically in human form, created through spiritual practice and intense concentration.
I nailed it.That's exactly what I meant.
The type of willed imaginary friend.You see?Influenced by the fictions and television.Fucking, I am so goddamn smart.And cinema from the 90s and 2000s.Is there an X-Files about Tulpa?It feels like that's a thing that like.
There probably is, yeah, there probably is.Scully, it's classic Tulpa.Yeah, yeah.She's like, what do you mean, Mulder?Yeah, that's probably how I learned about it.Tulpa X-Files. There's one.The Ubermenture from the X-Files episode Arcadia is a Tulpa.
See, I'm a dick.That's one of my favorite episodes, too.That is 100% how I know what a Tulpa is.
In Home Again, the Band-Aid Nose Man is also one.Curiously, in Home Again, Mulder claims Tulpa.I think Home Again is a reboot episode, because there's Home.I think Home Again is a new episode, which we did not get to, because our friend bailed on us.
In Home Again, Mulder claims tulpa is a theosophist mistranslation of tolku.This is so Mulder, classic Mulder.And that it has no basis in Tibetan Buddhism, whereas in Arcadia, he identified the ubermenture as being a tulpa, a Tibetan thought form.
The tulpa was in fact a very old concept in Tibetan Buddhism, entirely separate from tolku.
Okay, so, but I said it exactly what I meant.
Yeah, an imaginary will form, yeah.Yeah, yeah, yeah.
An imaginary friend that's been willed.
I'm here in these streets quoting Fox.
I'm a very bright person.
I don't know if I follow them or just like, because I keep liking the tweets.Twitter keeps serving me the tweets, but there's an account that basically just put repost things from Tumblr or people just be like, what is the X files?
And like, just like, like basically like alien cops, but like, it's just like, yeah, yeah.Misunderstanding.Or it's always pictures of like Mulder saying something crazy.It's called her being like, what?
And then him explaining that her just going like, Hmm, I love it.Every single time.
It's a show in its purest form.All right, read Meg's email.We have an email address, lottery at cageclub.me.Meg's reaction to the shame.I thought that this book was okay.Also, write it about any book, not just this book.I thought this book was okay.
I'm not talking to you, Meg.I'm talking to anybody else.Meg writes about every book.But I liked it more as I wrote this email.So this is actually the reverse of the next episode.
I would have liked it better if it was longer.More specifically, I felt there was a lack of consequences in the book that felt missing.The biggest example is that she just comes home after being gone for 24 hours to nothing.
And honestly, well, it's kind of non-ending, but I kind of liked the non-ending.We didn't talk about the ending, ending, ending.
I like a non-ending, you know me.
Honestly, Egg writes, I would have been fine if there was a scene of forgiveness or anger, just something.I also don't know if we ever learned about the fallout of her cutting the Dean's steak at that dinner. I think it's actually fallout.
It seems like that's an, that's actually an interesting scene where she's like a dinner party with all of her husband's work friends.
And it seems like she is both the life of the party and also the most embarrassing person in the history of the world.And it all seems fine.
Do you know how much I relate to that exact sentiment?Sure.Where it's like, I'm just like, I, but I'm the funniest, but all, no, I'm, I'm the worst.Ah, I live.That's like,
Why will once again reference live log two?
And Megan Boyle, after she has like a gathering of friends who like aren't her best friends, but sometimes even her best friends should like list her social faux pas.
She's like, these are all the things that did the party that I did not think went well.And then at the end she's just like, but it's probably fine.
There's so many times when I think that I'm killing it and then I go home and I'm just like, That happens more at work than it does, like... Like, I don't give a fuck if, like, you or Tom are mad or, like, that was embarrassing.
You know, that doesn't matter to me if I'm, like, with... You're also often, like, leaning into that there anyway.
Yeah, yeah.Yeah, for sure.
But, like, when you're doing neurosurgery, you're like, you should be cracking jokes, but sometimes you crack jokes, and you're like, ah, I shouldn't have said that.
Is it canon that I'm a neurosurgeon?It is now.Okay.
How is your comic book going about the alligator man in Iowa?
I, uh, it's... We got a...
I felt like the part where she talks about the Jewish professor, she had said that voice is a crutch, and all you need in the novel is, quote, drama, was talking directly about the way this book is written.
Because at its core, I felt that there was no actual drama, because you don't get any real reactions from anyone else.
And in a way, it's kind of beautiful, because you have a mother who is forcing the reader to be her audience, not let the reader be a voyeur in her life.
Yeah, it's a very solipsistic novel.
We can reward solipsism when it's in the service of feminism and things like that because it's like when you've denied a group of people a sense of self for a long enough time, selfishness becomes something that we can say like, be a little selfish as a treat.
Doesn't it kind of also fit, be like, trapped audience that isn't there, your Tulpa, if you will, of like being trapped in motherhood and being like, well, now I'm going to have you and you can't escape.
It's like, she's not actually talking to anybody.She's just like stuck with her own thoughts, but like we are subject to our own thoughts.
What, what is the, um, all in all a pretty good novel to be interested to read McKenna Goodman's next one.
I was thinking about that, like the, the stuff with, cause I have an MFA, so like I've been in a lot of workshops and things like that.Well, you know, I got it concurrently with my, MD, my residency in neurosurgery.Why did you put that on me?
You know, you know, like Ben cars, you know, Ben Carson, the neurosurgeon, Ben Carson, who's like famously, like famously separated the, the conjoined twins who are connected at the head.That's like his, that's like his claim to fame.
Like he was, he was the first person to ever like separate, uh, conjoined twins who were connected at the head. And that's why he was like the world's most famous neurosurgeon.
Really?Yeah.There is.I just rewatched Marge versus the monorail.There's a conjoined twins.Do you remember the conjoined?
So the monorail is going out of control at the end.They like get an anchor and they're just cutting through all the town that like everything's getting sliced apart.And Dr. Haber is with these conjoined twins.
It was very slow and painful operation just goes zip.Yeah, I do.
But the point I've been Carson story is that both of them died.How long after the surgery?I don't know, but it's like I could have done that. Like his book about himself is titled Gifted Hands.It's like, yeah, I don't know, man.I don't think so.
Anybody could have done that.I'm sure it seemed really hard at the time, but the results are the same as if anyone else did it.
Yeah, so I have an MFA and I've been in a lot of these workshop classes, obviously, where people are like, show, don't tell.Tell, don't show.And I think you're supposed to think that his advice is douchey, but I think his advice is good advice.
Which is?All I can think about right now is Ben Carson.
I mean me too.Putin is a one-horse country oil.Do you remember that?No, that's his like, uh, they gave him The Republican debates Like in 2016 2016.
Yeah, they give everyone like a final like statement to make and so people go one by one down the thing and they get to Ben Carson and money Carson just goes Putin is a one-horse country oil
He was combining the idea of a one horse town with a one trick pony.And it mashed together into Putin is a one horse country oil.
Well, that reminds me of, I finished watching reform and there's the guy who was just like, he's trying to do like fools rush in where angels fear to tread.And he's just like, they try to get people to take their seats.He's like angels,
Tread and fools rushed to your seats.And John Boies was just like, what?Yeah.Anyway, you were saying whose advice?
Email and lottery at Cade's Club.I mean, keep reading.
Oh, fuck.Beat me to it.Yeah.Today's today's crime is illegally discarding the battery.
I'm a man, I'm the first man to wear pants, yeah.I'm at peace with my lust.I can kill, cuz ain't God gonna let me.
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