Was it good?Was it bad?What was it like working with him?Working with her?You'll hear all the tales you wish you knew Every aspect of the theater, too Feel your love of Broadway anew On Backstage Babble!
Hi, this is Charles Kirsch, and welcome to Backstage Babble.Backstage Babble is a podcast interviewing professionals in the theater industry about themselves, their careers, and the people they've worked with along the way.
And today I am thrilled to present my interview with Broadway veteran Stephanie Pope, whose numerous credits include Big Deal, Sweet Charity, The Will Rogers Follies, Kiss of the Spider Woman, A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum, Pippin, Chicago, and Fosse.
She also played one of the hummies in Jelly's Last Jam in the original Broadway production and the Encore's revival.She's also appeared around the country in Thoroughly Modern Millie,
Ziegfeld Follies of 1936, Smokey Joe's Café, The Music Man, and Nine.And now, without further ado, here's Stephanie Pope.So I'd love to start off by asking you, how did you first become interested in performing?
That's really interesting because I felt that my whole entire career has been a bit of a fluke.I was the youngest of three girls, but quickly became the tallest.
And growing up in New York, growing up in Harlem, and my mom at a very young age, I was about five when my parents actually divorced, And I think she just needed something for me to do.
And she needed something that I could do so that I wouldn't be so ashamed of my height or embarrassed by my height.Because I remember I would get reactions from people when they would say, oh, how old is she?And I'd say, she's five.
And they'd be like, really? So she heard about the Dance Theatre of Harlem.My mom knew nothing about the dance world, really.But I think it had the name Harlem in it, and it had the word dance in it.And so she said, I'm signing her up.
And that's where I wound up.And it opened up a whole entirely new world for me.Yeah, it was amazing just stepping into those doors up on 152nd Street in Amsterdam.
And growing up in the city, were you aware of Broadway shows or were you seeing them ever?
I wasn't.I mean, the most I knew about musicals was watching them on television.And I do remember my mom loved watching musicals on TV. And she would sing along.She knew the lyrics.And so I became really, really fascinated.
And I fell in love with musicals, but we really knew not a lot about what was going on downtown, quite honestly.
And it wasn't until I got a scholarship at the Alvin Ailey School, which was at that time located in the Minskoff Theater building, that I really realized, wow, there's a whole other world happening down here and there's a whole, you know, and there's theater happening.
So, which is kind of interesting.Right, right.
And were your parents ultimately supportive of your desire to go into theater as a profession?
Not really, not fully.I went to a Catholic elementary school and then I took the test.My oldest sister was accepted into, if you're a New Yorker, you might know Hunter College High School.
Yes, that's what people actually.
So she was accepted.And then I took the test and I was accepted.So and Hunter starts early, two years earlier than most high schools.So I went there for those two years.
And then I told my parents that I wanted to transfer to the Performing Arts High School of Performing Arts.And they said, absolutely not. They said, if this dancing thing is something you want to do, you're going to do it after school.
You're going to go get your education.And that was it.I mean, I cried a lot.But of course, I obeyed my parents.And so I would take class after school.
And it got to a point where at the Ailey School, they were asking if I could, you know, because the later the classes were, the less advanced they were, the more advanced classes were earlier in the day.
So I was able to finally get Hunter to allow me to skip my gym classes so that I could leave early enough to go take some more advanced classes at the Ailey School.
And that's kind of really, you know, where I really felt I started to blossom as a dancer.
Right, right.And then what was the process like of deciding where to study in terms of college and all of that?
Oh, well, I came up at a time where college for me wasn't even an option, just in terms of, it was sort of school of hard knocks.And if this is something that you want to do, you just go ahead and do it.
Also, I had gotten my equity card at the age of 19, and I had made a promise with my parents.I said, you know, at Hunter, you could leave a year earlier or stay for the inter-college year and get college credit.
And I made a deal with my parents and I said, well, I'd like to graduate after the 11th grade. And I want to spend that year, that 12th year auditioning.And if I start getting booked for jobs, I'd like to continue.
If not, then I'll just go to college on time.And they agreed to that.And I started auditioning.And my first, I mean, I started getting work.I mean, I was working at the age of 14.And I remember going to school. And my history teacher, Ms.
Hodges, came over to me and she whispered in my ear, she said, I saw you last night, you were fabulous.So she was aware, because I was probably usually falling asleep in class, but she knew what was going on.So I thought that was kind of cute.
But yeah, so I took that year to see if I could actually have any sort of career.And it started to happen.So I never went to college.
Yeah.And what was the process like of auditioning early on and did you find that it came easily to you or?
Well, you know, when you're young, you don't know any better.And it's just about being the excitement of being in the space.At that time, a lot of the auditions took place at the theaters.
So you would show up, and there would be a long line at the stage door.And you eventually got in, and you got your number.And the auditions took all day long.
If you were lucky enough to be called back, you would go get a little bite to eat and come back to sing. So I loved it all.If the auditions weren't happening at a theater, they were happening in the Equity building.
And that was exciting also because you saw all your friends and you could look on the board and see what other shows they were holding auditions for.So it was a very exciting time for me.Of course, before I got my Equity card and I was auditioning,
It was the whole thing of having to wait until the end of the day, and hopefully they were seeing non-equity people.But again, it was the thrill of it.I was there with my friends, and we were all very hopeful and ambitious.
And we knew it was just all part of what you do.So it was very exciting.
And then how did Honky Tonk Nights come about as your first Broadway show?
Yeah.So, you know, I was auditioning for anything and everything.And really it didn't matter to me if I was right for it or not.I just wanted the experience of auditioning.
And honky-tonk nights came up and, you know, it was another situation where, you know, you show up waiting till the end, hoping that they will see you.And they did.
And it was, of course, Michael Kidd and his wonderful assistant who is no longer with us, Gary Chapman. who ran the auditions and put me through the paces.And by the end of it, they said they wanted me to come back.So I got that call back.
and came back and auditioned again.And Michael came up to me and told me that I had the job and I boo hooed.
I cried like a baby because up until that point, I had been auditioning and auditioning and auditioning and auditioning, you know, and getting all those no's that they tell you that you're going to get.I was definitely getting those no's.
And so that was one of my first major yeses.And so it just like, I think everything just I just like, so yeah, I remember that moment.I remember him kind of giggling at the fact that I was like crying like a baby.
And I think he appreciated, you know, my youth and my enthusiasm, you know, and all those things.
And what made sort of an ideal choreographer for you to work with, whether that was Michael Kidd or Bob Fosse or?
Well, you know, at that time, I didn't know.I mean, I was trained well, you know, at the Dance Theater of Harlem. and at the Alvin Ailey School and at Broadway Dance Center with Frank Hatchett.So I was trained by the best.
So, you know, I knew what a good work ethic was.You know, I knew what it felt like to be, you know, you know, to be in a demanding environment, you know, that wasn't something that I, that I was afraid of or didn't understand.
So just being in the room with people like Michael Kidd and Bob Fosse, it was like, okay, yeah, this is what it's supposed to be.And, and, and, you know, hoping that I can just live up to their expectations.Right.Right.
And with Honky Tonk Nights, what was it like to watch it develop through the workshop and
It was, well, it was amazing for me.I didn't go on to do it on Broadway because it took a couple of years after the workshop before it went to Broadway.And at the time when they reached out to see if I was available, I was already doing big deal.
So so it didn't work out.And it turns out it didn't last very long.So I guess it was OK, you know, but the big deal didn't last very long either.But and I think I had my chronological I think chronologically, I think that's right.
It was either Big Deal or Sweet Charity, but I was doing one of the Fosse shows and wasn't available to do the Broadway honking top nights.But the workshop was amazing. And with these amazing, amazingly talented people and me, it being my first show.
And I wasn't and it wasn't even an equity show at that point.It was an after show because they thought it was, you know, it was just skits.
So there was no book, but then Equity came in and watched one day and they determined that this in fact had a book.And so it would have to become an Equity show.So that's how I got my Equity card.
I was 19 years old and they forced me to join Equity, which I did happily.And I remember, was Terry Marone, who was the rep.And she said, well, what's what is your equity name?And I said, Stephanie Mary Pope.
She just kind of looked at me and Mary's my middle name.She said, I think it's going to be kind of long for the marquee.I want to go with Stephanie Pope.OK, Stephanie Pope, it is.Yes.
And so Big Deal was, of course, the first in a long string of Fosse shows that you did.And what do you think made you kind of ideally suited to being a Fosse dancer and working with him?
Well, that was the second Fosse show that I did, the first being the revival of Sweet Charity. And how that came about was we originated the revival in Los Angeles because Debbie Allen was still doing the television show Fame at that time.
So we started in LA and then we moved to San Francisco and then we took a six month, I believe it was six months of a hiatus before we were gonna begin rehearsals again.
And during that time, because as I mentioned, I'm the kind of person who's gonna audition no matter what, I showed up for the Big Deal audition.
And Mr. Fossey, of course, put me through the paces and at the end of the day, came over to me and whispered in my ear, have you signed your contract for Sweet Charity yet?And I said, no.
He said, well, Gwen is going to kill me, but I want you to do Big Deal. So that's how that happened.Wow.Yeah.Yeah.So so we started it in Boston, New York.Of course, we went to Boston for tryouts.
We came back in in April of I guess it was, I want to say, 86 and closed in June after the Tony.Well, then I was out of work and
And then one of the, Kim Morgan Greene, who was also a brilliant actress, she got hired to do The Colbys, the television show The Colbys, which was the spinoff of Dynasty.
And so she left the show and Mr. Fossey called to tell me that I'd be coming back in, not in my original track, Kirsten Childs was doing my original track at that point, but in Kim Morgan Greene's track.
And what was it like to be in an audition room and in a rehearsal room with Bob Fosse and sort of watching him work?
Oh my goodness.Well, first of all, you know, when I showed up for my, my first audition with Mr. Fosse was for the touring company of Dancing.
And I showed up and I was so green and naive and, you know, clueless that I went in the room looking for Roy Scheider. And I didn't see him.
I only saw this really old kind of hunched over guy sitting in a chair with knee pads around his ankles, smoking a cigarette, you know, and I thought, I don't know who that is, but I'm looking for Roy Scheider.
Turns out that was Mr. Fosse, and put us through paces.You know, T for Two, all the traditional audition combinations that he was known for.At the end of that audition,
his assistant Christopher Chadman came over to me and said, well, it's not going to work out for you for this show.
We're only looking for one person, but we do, but Mr. Fossey would like you to keep looking for the auditions that are coming up because there'll be one for Sweet Charity and we'd like you to show up for that one.And of course I did.
And, you know, and that's how that came about. But again, because I was, again, so young, I didn't really understand in the context of who I was in the presence of.I knew he was brilliant.I had seen the movie, Sweet Charity.I knew his work.
So I was just so thrilled that I would be able to recreate this movie that I had seen in my house, in my living room.
And people have a lot of sort of ideas and conceptions about what being a Fosse dancer means or what his style was.And I know you've gone on to teach it a lot at the Burden Fosse Legacy.
And what do you think sort of defines to you what the Fosse style is?
It's interesting because I remember a quote, and I will probably misquote it, but I remember him saying something like he likes working with beautiful dancers,
who don't know that they're beautiful and who aren't afraid to roll around on the floor and, you know, and get dirty.He appreciated intelligent dancers.
You know, we would walk into the room to begin rehearsals and he would say, okay, actors, let's begin because he wanted us to always be thinking and not do anything just for the sake of doing it.Like have a reason.
You know, he had studied the Meisner technique, Sanford Meisner. you know, with every moment having a meaning, you know, the power of stillness, all these things that I realize in hindsight that he incorporated into his style of working.
And so, you know, he just appreciated smart, brilliant, well-trained dancers who enjoyed the work, enjoyed having fun, but also worked very, very, very hard.
And with Sweet Charity, of course, it was a revival of the show you'd done originally.And what was it like sort of figuring out how much to be the same as the original and how much to make changes?
That really wasn't up to us as far as I'm concerned.We started, Bob wasn't even directing the show at that point.It was a director by the name of John Boab, who had done quite a bit of theater, but also a lot of television.
And again, we started out in Los Angeles.I think he was one of the directors of, I don't know, Who's the Boss, you know, all those, yeah, sitcoms. And so he was directing, and Gwen Verdon was there restaging the choreography.
And at one point, it was about a weekend, I would say, maybe it was a couple of weeks.Again, it was so long ago.I forget how long ago.It seems like it's just yesterday, but at the same time, it was like, it was so long ago.That...
Bob showed up and apparently we went to lunch and when we came back, he was in charge. So clearly there was something that he saw or something that Gwen told him and that led him to say, okay, I will come in and head this thing, take charge.
And he did.And it became hours and hours and hours and hours of just moving our wrists and going across the floor and moving our finger and going across the floor and practicing, you know, the slope in the Frug.
And, you know, it was a master class, master workshop. you know, again, again, again, again, let's try it again, again, una mas, una mas, you know, until, you know, obviously he felt we got it right.But again, we loved it.
I mean, you know, and especially for somebody like me, you know, he seemed to be the kind of choreographer who hired the same dancers over and over.
He had a family of dancers, you know, Sandell Bergman, Ann Rankin, you know, Christopher Chadman, all these brilliant, brilliant dancers. And then he brought in a young kid like me, you know, to come in.
And one of my best friends, Lacey Daryl Phillips, we were like two of the, Lacey had done dancing.So he had worked with him before, but, you know, we came in new, young, fresh, wet behind the ears.
You know, Dana Moore, you know, I'm looking at Dana going, oh my God, you know, like that's who I wanna be when I grow up.So for me, it was just soaking it in, like absorbing every moment and loving every moment and appreciating every moment.
Yeah.And with Big Deal, you mentioned that, of course, it didn't have a very long run on Broadway.I mean, was that something that you could sort of tell was going to happen?Or why do you think that that was?
I couldn't imagine the show closing as quickly as it did.But I did feel, and I think we all did, that there were things going behind the scenes that we really weren't privy to. We just thought, you know, this is a this is a this wasn't a revival.
This was a brand new show.You know, Mr. Fosse, you know, he wrote the book.He he brought in, you know, existing music.You know, he wasn't working with a composer.You know, it was all him.
But we could feel tensions, you know, and I remember one day, you know, I guess things got so intense that his back went out and, you know, he was carried out on a stretcher, you know, so there was a lot going on.
But I remember we were just, as far as being the dancers and the performers, you know, if something went seemed to be going wrong in the other room, we were just rehearsing in our room.
We rehearse, rehearse, rehearse, rehearse, you know, whether it was to keep us, you know, attentions diverted or whatever it was, but they kept us busy. And, you know, and personally, I thought it was a wonderful show.
I mean, Cleavon Derricks, Loretta Devine, again, Alan Weeks, Larry Marshall, you know, Bruce Anthony Davis, you know, Wayne Salento, you know, you couldn't get a better cast, Lloyd Culbreath.
But unfortunately the critics didn't go for it or whatever the reasons were yet to be known really.And yeah, we opened and closed.I think maybe we only got best choreography And so the decision was made to close it.Yeah.
And then, of course, you worked with Bob Fosse right up until the show where he passed away on opening night.And I wonder if you saw anything about him change sort of over the span that you were working with him or.
Well, you know, I was lucky enough to have spent the last two years of his life learning from him and I believe he saw something in me because he placed me in positions very quickly.
Again, I was new to working professionally and he had me understudying the leads.And then when it was time to do the national tour of Sweet Charity, he hired me to play the role of Helene.I had understudied the role in the Broadway company initially.
And then again, when I came back, I believe I became second cover because Kirsten was the first cover.And then to have been offered the role, a lot of responsibility.I understudied, you know, the shadows in Big Deal.
You know, I understudied Loretta Devine in Big Deal.And that was the one role that I prayed I would never go on for.
And later on, of course, I got a chance to sing Life is Just a Bowl of Cherries in Fosse, so it came full circle, and I was ready for it by then, by that point.So a lot of the stories that we all have heard
I didn't experience because this was, we didn't know it, but this was, you know, the latter part of his life and perhaps he had mellowed out.But I have no, you know, horror stories about my time with him. I only have, you know, wonderful memories.
I have a memory of while we were in tech for the tour, we were going on a break, and I was looking, it was, and we were checking the Baby Dream Your Dream scene.
And I happened to be just standing there looking at the, it's the apartment, it's the charity Nikki and Helene's apartment.And I'm looking at the wall, and it has pictures of you know, Tony Bennett and Frank Sinatra and all these amazing performers.
And Bob came up to me and said, well, what are you what are you doing?I said, oh, I'm just looking at, you know, our wall.And he looked at it with me and he said, oh, you know, what would you like to see up there?
Or who do you think should be up there?And I thought for a second and I and I laughed and I was like, oh, because I didn't even, you know, I was like, oh, Sidney Poitier.And he just kind of nodded and walked away.
And we went to lunch and when we came back, there was a picture of Sidney Poitier on the wall in the living room.So I remember things like that.
I remember during Big Deal, one day we were heading for lunch and I forget who he was with, but he was like, oh, Stephanie, do you wanna come have lunch? And me being so naive, I was like, oh no, Bob, I know I'm going to cook.I have food at my place.
And I always think back, what would that conversation have been like?What would it have been like if I had had lunch with Mr. Fossey at that time?So I have only great memories.
Yes, that's wonderful.And then what was it like, of course, to be out of town with Sweet Charity, with Donna McKechnie and everyone on the night that he passed away and sort of continuing the run afterwards and all of that?
Well, I imagine everybody has a similar story up until we were actually told. And that is that Mr. Fossey rehearsed us like crazy.
Now these days, you know, I directed a production of Smokey Joe's Cafe and I remember the artistic director suggesting that I not rehearse them on opening night. Mr. Fosse rehearsed us like crazy that day.
And I mean, again, again, again, again, una mas, una mas, one more time, one more time.And then he finally released us to get ready for the show.And I was so exhausted, all I could do was go sit in my dressing room, you know, and get myself together.
But prior to that, I do remember that he, after he rehearsed us, he called us all into the house and he just started talking to us, but not so much, you know, not necessarily giving us notes, but kind of just talking about life and the importance of saving your money.
And, you know, just almost like a father figure. after working us like crazy, which was interesting to us.You know, we're expecting a lot of notes.And then he released us.And then I went to my dressing room.
And I remember just sitting in my room, just exhausted, trying to figure out how am I going to get myself together for opening night in Washington, D.C.And I hear a knock on my door.And I say, come in.And it's Mr. Fosse.He comes in.
I'm sitting at my dressing table.I'm looking in the mirror.And I saw it was Bob.And I thought, OK, here come the notes.And he walks behind me.I see him walking behind me in the mirror.And he sits on the right side on the dressing table.
And I'm still kind of just looking in the mirror, waiting.And he doesn't say anything. And then he gets up and he walks out.Of course, in my head, I'm thinking, okay, I guess I'm just so horrible that he won't even bother to give me notes.
That's how bad I am.So that's what I thought. So opening night happens and first act is done and we don't see him when normally we would see him during intermission.Of course, we're all thinking, oh, okay.You know, he rehearses like crazy.
I guess we're still not doing what he wants us to do.So he does not even bothering to come back during intermission. That's how crazy we are, right?And driven we are, you know.And then second act ends, curtain comes down.We go to our dressing rooms.
Well, we don't go to our dressing rooms.They tell us to stay on stage. And of course, when they tell you to stay on stage and the producers and everybody come out, that means we're closing.That's what we thought the announcement was gonna be.
And we had a wig person by the name of, interestingly enough, Robert De Niro, Bobby De Niro, and everybody called him Bobby.And they said, we have horrible news, Bobby, has died.And we thought, Bobby didn't, our hairdresser?
We just saw him, what do you mean?So it was like, what are you talking about?No, Bobby has died.Bob, Bob, Bob Fosse has died.
And I think from there, no one can tell you the same story, because I think everybody, I know, I don't even know what happened, because for me personally, I don't know if I blacked out, I don't know.I just know when I came to,
Our stage manager had walked me to my dressing room.I was in tears.I was distraught, you know, and I remember saying something like, you know, I don't like who else is ever going to believe in me.
You know, and yeah, so that was that I mean, you know, and every anyone who you talk to who was there will tell you a different version after we heard that announcement.
But it was devastating, you know, and then but we did continue with the tour for a while.And it eventually did close, but it was one of the most devastating experiences I have ever had in my entire life and career.
Yes. And then, of course, Fossey's sort of other half, other side was, of course, Gwen Verdon.And what was it like for you to collaborate with her as well?
Gwen was the best.I mean, she was, you know, she was no joke.And I remember we were practicing, you know, in the Froog, you know, coming in that iconic walk. You know, she got on my case for I made some excuse about my legs being too long.
And she was like, oh, no, I don't think so.You know, you know, people have been doing this step with long legs for years, you know, something like that, you know.But I mean, again, she she led with love.
But at the same time, you knew you couldn't you know, you couldn't mess around with Gwen. You know, they both demanded the best from you.Because, listen, because they were the best.And we knew, you know, they could do it.
So we certainly better be able to do it.And ironically, and just as sadly, it was while I was doing the show Fosse on Broadway when Gwen passed away. And so, yeah, I had to make that announcement to the audience that night.
So, but I was, in some ways, I was happy to have been, you know, involved in a Fosse project, you know, when she passed the same as I was when he passed.Right, right.
And having known Fosse well and having worked with him a lot, I'm curious, what have you thought of sort of subsequent representations of him and his work and like,
Dancin' on Broadway, or Fosse-Verdon series, or the revival of Chicago, or things like that.
Um, I appreciate, um, what's being done, especially, you know, in, in, in Chicago.Um, you know, I never saw the original, you know, I've only seen footage of it.Um, but, uh, and I, and, you know, and I can, I, I know that is vastly different.
You know, it was pulled from, you know, this revival of Chicago was pulled from the Encore's production, um, you know, scaled down.Um, but there's something to me that that's very stunning about it.
and clearly successful because it's been running for over 20 years.And it was a joy to be a part of it.I love playing Velma Kelly.I mean, I used every fiber of my talent and my being for that role.
I don't think another role will ever come up like that for me, you know, where I was able to use so much and, you know, all of myself in that way.And that was amazing.
And as far as the, you know, I appreciate what Anne Rankin was able to do with Bob's work and how she used it in the show Foxy.I thought it was beautifully done.And I know Danson was trying to get back to, you know,
not as, for lack of a better word, you know, people say that what was done with Fosse was sort of, it was codified, his style was codified.And Danson was attempting, I believe, to get back to sort of a freer, looser way of being in his work.
I think it was not as successful, but, you know, but I appreciate the effort.But anytime his work can be done and appreciated, and when it's done well, there's nothing like it. Yeah, there's nothing like it.
And so after Fosse had passed and you were sort of known as a Fosse dancer and having worked with him a lot, did you find that that affected sort of your subsequent auditions or projects or things like that?
I always felt early on that it was a blessing and a curse to have his name on my resume.I mean, and it was one of the first names on the resume.So I think that could either be exciting or intimidating.
But I've been blessed and I have, you know, I've worked with so many amazing choreographers and been in so many amazing shows.You know, like I've been, you know, I can't, I think mostly it has helped.
I do think in some rare instances, you know, maybe it was just too intimidating, you know, but other than that, it's, yeah, it's been nothing but a blessing.
And another great choreographer was, of course, Tommy Toon on the Will Rogers Follies.And what was it like to work with him?
Well, it's interesting because I learned the show through his assistant, Patty DeBeck.I was living in Los Angeles at that time.Once Bob had passed, I made the decision to go to Los Angeles.
I had such a great time in Los Angeles when we were there with the Revival of Sweet Charity.And I wanted to pursue more acting because I was so encouraged through Bob to study acting.And I began studying Meisner.
And I want to explore that whole thing.So I went to move to Los Angeles.But I watched the Tonys and the year that Will Rogers was up for a Tony.And I thought, oh, that's interesting because I didn't see anybody of color.
And but I remember seeing the auditions, even though I wasn't available to audition for it.And I remember they were specifically looking for people of color.So I thought, oh, that's odd.But, you know, I thought, OK, whatever.
I didn't think much of it.Then there happened to be an audition for Will Rogers Follies in Los Angeles.I said, you know what, I'm going to go.So I went and I got called back and they flew me to New York.And and I had my call back in New York.
And sure enough, I was hired.Come to find out what happened was Dana Moore, unfortunately, injured herself, injured her knee.And so she left the show.And so there was a spot available.So they brought me in.
I honestly did not know that there was controversy surrounding this is the same year of Miss Saigon and the controversy of the engineer. Jonathan Price playing the role of the engineer.So there was a lot going on in terms of representation.
So they brought me in and then I was swarmed with, you know, questions being asked and reporters, how does it feel and all these things, you know. So I just felt my job was to go in there and do what I do and represent and be the best that I can be.
I wasn't able to carry all that weight on me other than knowing that my responsibility was to be there and be the best that I could be.So they couldn't say that I was there just because I was black. Um, and they will force to do that.
So, um, you know, and I think I was able to accomplish that.Um, so, but I know I did not get a chance to learn the show from, from Tommy, but, uh, yeah, I learned it, uh, through Patty DeBake.
And I wonder if you found at that time that Of course, it was not as diverse a field as it is now.And did you find that you faced any kind of prejudice or bias in the rehearsal room or in the audition room or things like that?
It's interesting because I don't know if it was, you know, having grown up in New York, you know, we lived in Harlem, but having grown up in the city, how I was raised, Those thoughts never were in the forefront.
And you have to remember, my first major show was, you know, we did the workshop of Honky Tonk Nights, which was a black show, sort of a black version of Sugar Babies, and then Sweet Charity, which was diverse. And many of Bob's shows were diverse.
So that's all I knew. And then as I begin to continue in my career, I realized, oh, okay, this is not always the case.It's not always this easy.You know, sometimes there are issues and concerns.
I did come up at a time, I must say, you know, when my type was in, you know, tall, long legs.And because of that, and because of my resume and, you know, and my talent, you know, I was hired a lot.
And if they were gonna have just a handful or just one or two, At that point in my career, it usually was me, I have to say, I feel very blessed.And I think, and my goal was to make sure that when I left,
that door remained open or that in some way I was able to show that a person of color can be in a cast and all hell doesn't break loose.So there shouldn't be an issue.I try to always do my job and do it well.Yeah, and walk out leaving the door open.
Yeah, absolutely. And so Jelly's Last Jam, of course, had an all-black cast and creative team, or maybe not all-black creative team, but an all-black cast.And how did that show first come into your life?
Well, we did have the Melrose brothers were two white actors.Ah.So yeah, so again.But Jelly happened. I saw an early version of Jealous Last Chance while I was living in Los Angeles.
George Wolfe was already making a name for himself and they were doing a production of it at the Dorothy Chandler, I believe.
And I went to go see it and I thought, every show, pretty much every show that I've been in, if it already existed and I had a chance to see it, Like something in me goes, oh, no, I'm supposed to be doing that show.
And that's exactly how I felt when I saw that early version of Jelly's Last Jam.But it was already cast.And I thought, OK, well, but maybe you never know.So cut to New York.
It was while I was doing Will Rogers Follies that I auditioned for Jelly's Last Jam. And I got it.And I was so excited.But at the same time, that was at a time where we had lost a lot of choreographers through AIDS.
And what producers decided to do was have young choreographers create pieces of choreography and sort of audition them.And they did that with the revival of Guys and Dolls, who Christopher Chadman directed and choreographed.
And I was in a workshop that he did.Jerry Mitchell also created choreography for that show.But long story short, I got hired for Guys and Dolls at the same time I got hired for Jelly's Last Jam. And that was tough.
I mean, you know, Chris Chapman was Bob Fosse's longtime associate choreographer.
You know, I felt part of his family, but at the same time, he was this original musical being done with Gregory Hines and George Wolfe and a predominantly black cast, which up until that point actually hadn't had that opportunity, really, other than Hunkytown Nights.
And, you know, I wanted to be around my people,
And so I had to make the choice, and it was a really, really tough choice, you know, with a show that we didn't know, Jelly's Last Jam, we didn't know, believed in it, but didn't know, versus Guys and Dolls.
And I, you know, leap of faith, I decided to do Jelly's Last Jam, and I don't regret it in the least.
And what was it like to work with George C. Wolfe as a director?
Wow, George in many ways had, and I've said this, had qualities that reminded me of Bob Fosse, but was able to take things even further as far as risk, as far as fearlessness.The thing that I love about George Wolfe is that he is fearless.
And especially with a show like Jelly's Last Jam, he brought up issues that were, rarely brought up in a commercial, you know, Broadway show, commercially produced show.And, you know, and was very bold in bringing up some of those subjects.
You know, like, you know, racism, but also, you know, race, colorism. you know, things like that.
So I appreciated, and he is another one who just appreciates brilliance, appreciates intelligence, and requires you to bring all of yourself into the room. I love being challenged in that way.I've never considered myself just a dancer.
I've always been a performer.I always thought of myself as a performer.And I like being challenged in ways that require me bringing all of myself into the room.And he encouraged that.
And not every director does, especially if you are thought of as a dancer.
You know, dancers are often taught to, you know, I'll tell you what to do and you do it and just do it well, you know, and if you start asking too many questions or thinking too much, you know, that can work against you.
But I was fortunate enough to work with people like Bob Fosse and George Wolfe who encouraged that.Sometimes got me in trouble in other situations, but mostly, you know, it was an asset.
And I know when I talked to Brenda Braxton about Jellies last year, she mentioned that there were some sort of conversations with the cast and George Seawolf about those tricky subjects that were being covered and sort of personal feelings.
And I wonder what your memory of that was and what it was like to talk about those things on stage eight times a week, just as personally.
Well, I loved it.I loved being able to bring that aspect of our culture to a Broadway stage by us.I think it would be different if it was brought by someone else.But these issues were being raised by us.So it had another angle to it.
And, you know, I remember specifically when I'm sure Brenda talked about because she had to do it when there were the blackface issue.
At first it was masks, then they got rid of the masks and they had to put the white around their lips and, you know, the honeys. We didn't have to do that, but the rest of the ensemble did.
And I remember how challenging and emotional it was to be able for them to do it.And I'm sure for the audience, But that, you know, but that was George.And it's, you know, and it's not like that didn't exist, you know, in the world and history.
And he was bold enough and brave enough to shed some light on it.
And then what was it like for us to return to that role in that property so many years later?And how did that first come up as an opportunity?
Listen, I got to tell you, I was initially so against it. I'm the kind of person that is always looking forward.Look what, you know, what's next, what's in front of me.Very rare.I mean, I, it takes me years.
If there's like foot, I mean, I think you know this, if there's footage of me, I will not look at it.
I wait, I will wait a year before I look at something, you know, and you know, whether that's good or bad, you know, you, you can learn a lot by looking at, you know, footage of yourself, but I just choose to look forward.
So when this idea came up, I was very hesitant.I did not want to be compared to who I was 32 years ago, because that's how long ago it was. And I resisted it.But I also knew that if we were going to do it, it had to be the three originals.
Like, I didn't want to see them doing it without me.I didn't want to do it without them.So either we're all in or all out.You know, that was sort of our little bond.And so once I wrapped my head around the fact that these honeys are timeless,
and ageless.And once I wrapped my head around that idea and that concept, and they're always there to shepherd, not just Jelly, right, but anyone into either heaven or hell, you know, I embraced it, I embraced it.
And then once I embraced it, I put all of myself into it and I loved every single moment.I loved it, loved it, loved it.And I was thrilled that we could do it.That was a plus. that we were able to still do it.Yeah.
And then to work with, you know, and of course everyone assumed that, you know, how can you do it without all that tap dancing, without the lead tap dancing?And Nick Christopher brought a whole other idea to the role.
And it was just, it was just brilliant.And it was brilliant to be able to see it with different eyes. Yeah, I was very, very happy to be a part of it.I hope it continues.And I hope I can be a part of it if it does continue.
Me too, it was a wonderful production to see, very exciting.And how did you feel that this sort of meaning behind the show or the context of the show had changed in those 30 years?
That is what is so amazing to me.Clearly, Jelly was ahead of its time 32 years ago. But unfortunately, the issues, at the same time, it's timeless.The issues still exist.Nothing about it seemed dated.And that's, to me, and that's art.
You know, to me, that's a pure indication of art.And Jelly's Last Jam, to me, is not only a wonderfully viable commercial piece of theater, but it's also an amazing piece of art.
And I know in the original production, you also understudied Tonya Pinkins' role as Amita, and did you ever go on for that, or?
I did, I did.I did it, and I loved it.I loved having that opportunity.So, and I don't remember how many times I went on, but I did get to go on, yes.
Yes.And then you, of course, also understudied Cheetah Rivera in Kiss of the Spider Woman right after that.And what was that experience like of working with her and sort of finding your take on the part?
Yeah, I stood by for Cheetah.I wasn't in the show. So yeah, I was on a beeper, which is terrifying.I wasn't always on a beeper, but after a while, I lived in the area.Cheetah was never going to be out.
So they were like, look, we're going to give you a beeper and we'll let you know. And then sure enough, she was out.And then I had to rush back and go on, first for the second act, and then the next day for the full show, which was a matinee.
And then, of course, she came back for that evening show.But again, this was a situation where I joined after the Tony Awards. So I didn't have the pleasure of being in the room with everyone as it was being created.
But I was in the room quite often, meaning the dressing room with Chita.She was always warm and welcoming and open and allowed me to just sit in that room and watch her, you know, changing and getting ready.
And, you know, and I was just a fly on the, just absorbing as much as I possibly could and, you know, watching her in the wings.And I mean, you know, it doesn't get better than that.It doesn't get better than that.
And what was it like to find your own take on the part separate from hers and Vanessa Williams's and Carol Lawrence's and all of that?
Well, you know, it's interesting because when you're, first of all, coming into a show after it's already been running, and you're rehearsing with mostly the stage manager and the dance captain, you're really just trying to learn it.
You're trying to learn, at least for me, that experience was just making sure I knew what I was doing.And then, Of course, no matter what, I was going to bring something different to it than she does because of who we are.
We're very, very different people. But my goal, if I had had the opportunity to go on and I did, honestly, those first couple of times is just get through it.I didn't go on enough to be able to explore nuances or things.
It was just keep the show open, you know what I mean?Like don't let them have to cancel the show and do a good job.And for the show and a half that I got a chance to do it, that's what I did.
You mentioned having to choose between Guys and Dolls and Jelly Sauce Jam, and were there other roles that you ended up turning down or sort of having to make a similar choice?
It's interesting.I was, again, so blessed and so fortunate very quickly and very early on in my life.
I mean, I literally averaged, you know, because I've technically done 11 Broadway shows and not, you know, in this era where shows open and close very quickly, sometimes, you know, after a couple of months.I mean, that's when shows ran.
So I would average two years in a show and then move on to another show.So oftentimes I would be asked to join a show, or just decide that it was something that just wasn't right for me.
But I've always been the kind of person that I would then say, but I do know someone who might be interested.And I was always recommending my friends if there was something that I either couldn't do, didn't want to do.I would always say, yeah, but
Maybe Duncan Gibbs is available or, you know, maybe reach out to, you know, because. I didn't want to make it not possible.
I wouldn't want them to consider, if they're thinking of me coming in, a person of color, a black woman coming in, if I said no, I wanted that door to remain open for someone of color.So I would always recommend someone else of color to go in.
And oftentimes that would happen.So that would make me very happy. Yes, yes.And aside from because oftentimes I was I was cast in in shows where it wasn't specific.It it could have easily gone to a white performer.
So if I was fortunate enough to be hired, I wanted to be sure that someone else of color could step in or would step in.
about what's it like just sort of sustaining your performance physically eight times a week for two years and making sure that you don't get injured or get too tired to be able to do it?
Yeah, I love, I say love, maybe a little ED at the end of that. No, I still do.But eight shows a week for me, like that was heaven, heaven, heaven.And yeah, making sure that you remain healthy.
But we weren't as into, you know, wellness and all those things back then.It was just, you just do it, you just do it.And you, you know, you still take class.You know, you still, make sure that your body is in peak shape.
And oftentimes that just meant resting whenever you could. But yeah, and luckily I was never injured.
I mean, a couple of times, I think doing a lot of the Fosse work in heels, sometimes on a rake, turned in, you know, I would have a recurring sort of psoas issue where I just, oh God, it was the worst.
But, you know, it would get worked on and then I'd be okay.But, you know, that's all I remember like from all that Fosse work. any injuries and things like that.
You know, of course, vocally things would happen, you know, and you take care of yourself as best as you can.
But yeah, just maintenance, you just have to be sure that you're, you know, if you have to see a doctor, see a doctor, get massaged, get massaged, take class. you know, keep working on your skills.
Because when you're doing a show, you're working on one specific set of muscles, whether it's dancing or singing, right?Only a certain set of muscles are being used.
And then when you leave that show and try to do something else, it's like, oh, why can't I do it?It's because you've only been working those muscles.So you got to keep the, you know, got to keep the whole body functioning equally.
And I wonder, were there particular shows that you found to be especially sort of taxing physically or vocally?
I would say Chicago.I would say Velma Kelly. But again, I, so, but I loved it so much.I didn't mind being exhausted.I did, that was one show, especially, cause I toured for two years with it.
And then I came in, I did it on Broadway for months, maybe two months, you know, and I remember, I remember Greg Butler because, you know, people come in and out so quickly.He was like, oh my God, this is so great.
Like this is the longest anybody has ever come in, like two months, which is funny, right?So, Uh, that was very taxing.I did not go out and I didn't, you know, hang out after the show.You know, very rarely would I go out.
I just had to go home and jump in the bed or jump in a hot tub and, you know, and just take care of myself like that.
But at the same time, you know, but I was loving every moment and I knew if I didn't take care of myself, I wouldn't be able to do it.And, um, you know, and I wasn't having that.
Right.Right. And so I know after that you did a funny thing happened on the way to the forum and what was it like there to be working with Rob Marshall who's also a great choreographer now mostly on film.
Yes, that was it was so much fun. crazy wacky show.I mean, you know, Nathan Lane, you know, he was the best, you know, we got along so well.
And, you know, I think a lot of people were a little bit afraid of him, but, you know, I would say silly things to him and make him laugh, which, you know, meant a lot to me.But yeah, Jerry Zaks, Rob Marshall,
gorgeous, gorgeous dancers, Marianne Lamb, and just the best people in the cast, Lee Zimmerman.It doesn't get better than that.
Again, I say, sometimes when I look back on the things that I've been able to do, I sometimes can't believe how fortunate I've been in the opportunities that I've been given. And it's just, it's, you know, it's a joy.It was a joy.
I was going through a point in my life when I was doing forums though, where, because I felt like, you know, I had been, I was asked to be in the life. And I remember feeling like, I feel like I've been a hoe my entire career.
It's like, I don't want to be a hoe again.I mean, that's just where I was.And I really had to justify, believe it or not, just a wacky show like Forum being a courtesan.Like what did that mean for me?So I did all this research on courtesans.
and how actually, you know, you had a choice of either being a courtesan or a wife, and a wife wasn't allowed to read or have an education, courtesans were educated, you know, so I had, you know, and that helped me understand why I was doing what I was doing and helped justify me being there.
Like, that's how crazy I am.Like, I gotta find a reason.I can't just be a hoe.
And have you done similar research for other roles for other shows?
I try to, I try to do as much research as I can, you know, cause that informs, you know, the work, you know, whether you are acting or dancing or singing, you know, you, you just try to do as much research as you possibly can.
Cause you know, so you can bring something to the table.
Yeah.And then I know shortly after that you did Smokey Joe's cafe in London.And what was it like sort of going to a different place and performing for different audiences.
Smokey Joe's was interesting because apparently they, you know, they wanted to bring the show there, but they wanted to open it with an American cast.
I was fortunate enough that for whatever reason, Brenda Braxton wasn't available or chose to not do it.So I got to do her role with most of the original cast. B.J.Crosby, Victor Trent Cook, most of the original cast was there.So that was heaven.
It was very interesting doing it for a British audience.You know, they appreciated it, but it didn't seem like they were appreciating it in the same way that the American audiences did.But in hindsight, they did.
And we only did it for a certain amount of time.And then they brought in a British cast.They just wanted it to open with an American cast.
But a funny thing that happened on the way to Smokey Joe's in London is that I was invited to what I thought, again, most of my life, I feel like, or most of my career, I just kind of said yes, just said yes.
almost clueless, you know, and a couple of us were invited to sing at an event.And, you know, as you know, we do benefits and we do events, you know, after the show or on our day off.And I just said, yes.
And I found out that it was going to be a tribute to George and Ira Gershwin.Great.No problem. And you're going to be singing the song Delicious, beautiful, great song.
I wasn't all that familiar with it, but, you know, worked on it with the amazing Larry Blank.And then come to find out it's happening at Royal Albert Hall. And I'm like, what?
So yeah, and that's just kind of like, I feel like my whole life has kind of been a series of what?And so there I was singing at this amazing place where this amazingly historical place where, you know, everyone who has anyone has graced.
And yeah, and that was pretty exciting for me.
And as you were saying, you've of course directed Smokey Joe's Cafe later on, and what made you decide to sort of approach that project from a different angle?
Well, you know, it all came about, it was, you know, after the pandemic and obviously after, you know, George Floyd and theaters beginning to, you know, rethink and think outside the box and open things up, you know, be more diverse.
Um, I started getting quite a few calls of seeing if I would be interested in directing.
And, and although I had never really directed before, other than, you know, my own cabaret acts and, you know, smaller things, I wanted to take advantage of the opportunity. And I did.
And I decided that I did, you know, I took a different approach in terms of relationships and where it was happening and why it was happening.I just wanted to explore it in a different way.And, you know, and it was wonderful.It got wonderful reviews.
And I think the cast enjoyed doing it because I think many of them had done it before.So, you know, it was a different way of approaching it.
And it was a great experience for me, you know, just seeing what it felt like to be on the other side of the table and all that that required.I learned a lot.I learned a lot from that experience.And it even informs me as a performer.You know what?
I also studied producing.I took a producing course because we were at home trying to figure out what we're going to do during the pandemic.Right.So I was doing all these online things and
So, you know, the knowledge that I gained about producing and directing and choreographing, you know, that informs you, that informs you when you're performing, when you're on the other side of the table performing and, you know, decisions, how decisions are made.
You know, you have a whole other way of thinking about why decisions are made the way they are made.So it's all been a great experience for me. I'd like to do more directing.I'd love the opportunity to do more directing.So we'll see how that goes.
Yes.Yes.And we mentioned Fosse a little bit earlier.And of course, that was another show that you came into mid run.And what was that experience like?
It was wonderful, to be really candid, it was wonderful on stage, but for whatever reason, not a great experience for me off stage.Now, I had heard in the process of its creation, it had gone through a lot.
And I was determined that when I joined the company that I would not allow myself to be affected by that energy.But unfortunately, I feel like I was, you know, because it's, you know, sometimes it's so infectious, you can't help it.
I loved performing in the show. absolutely loved, you know, starting the show singing Life is Just a Bowl of Cherry, as I mentioned, that was a full circle moment for me.Love being able to explore and rediscover Mr. Fossey's work.
It was, yeah, so I loved being on stage in that show, yes.Is that diplomatic enough?
And then, of course, we mentioned Fosse in Chicago, and the other Fosse show that you did on Broadway later was Pippin.And how did that revival first come into your life?
I left the business for 10 years.I left for a decade.And not a lot of people realize that.I remember when I came back and started auditioning, people thought that I was just like on the road for 10 years. I left the business.
I had gotten to a point, as I said, I feel like I've been so blessed and fortunate.And I was going from show to show to show.And if it wasn't a Broadway show, I was doing something, doing a regional production.I was blessed and working consistently.
And I got to a point where I felt myself getting burned out.I wasn't enjoying it as much as I felt I should have been enjoying it. And so I just thought, okay, it's time to take a break.
Because the business you have to be, you have to be all about yourself.I mean, that's just a part of it.It goes, you have to be all about you.And I was just kind of getting over myself.And I said, okay, let me take a break.So I did, I did.
And that's where I met my husband, who we're now divorced, the father of my daughter. and, you know, had a child and, you know, and opened a yoga studio for eight years and just, you know, lived a quote-unquote normal life.
And then as my daughter started to get a little bit older, I felt that I wanted to see if it was possible to just maybe go back.I didn't know if it was gonna be possible, but I thought I would just try.
And I heard that they were casting for Pippin, a revival of Pippin.And I thought, okay, this could be interesting.And I originally went in for the role of Fastrata, And it went well, but it didn't go my way.
The amazing Charlotte Dumbois got it, of course, because she's amazing.But I reached out to Chet Walker and I said, listen, if there's anything else that I could do in this show, I'm happy to do it.
He was like, really, you know, we just didn't really think that you would be interested in doing, he said, there's one thing, but like, I didn't think you would be interested in that, to be in the ensemble and to cover the leading player.
course I'll do that.Like I would be happy to.So I believe I went in again, you know, and they saw me for that.And that's how that happened.And I know Chet was in my corner every step of the way.
You know, I don't think Diane Paulus saw it really, but Chet saw it.And so that's how I wound up doing it.And it was amazing.Not only that, because it was me stepping back into doing theaters, you know, stepping back into that world.
And I was able to receive the legacy role, you know, on that show.So it was a great way of coming back to the business, yeah.And I was nominated for, at that time it was the Anna Stare Award, it's now the Cheetah Awards.
Yes, it was a great coming home.
And did you find at that point that anything about sort of the business had changed or yourself as a performer or things like that?
I think it was starting to change perhaps.I think I feel like more has changed now.So that was maybe 2013.So yeah, so 10, 11 years ago.I think more so now things have changed quite a bit.
that if you want to be in it, you either make those adjustments or you don't without compromising your integrity or your work ethic.But I think back then, not so much.I didn't feel that anything had changed drastically.I was happy to be there.
I was happy to be starting again.I was happy to be doing it with work that I was familiar with. I was happy that it was a show that was re-examining the original, but paying homage to the original.
For me, it was a sort of a perfect environment to enter back into the space with.
And what was that process like of re-examining what Fossey had done originally and putting the Productions on Stamp on it?
Well, originally, I believe the plan was to use all of Mr. Fossey's original work.As we continue to develop it, Diane Paulus encouraged Chet Walker, from my understanding,
to, we use less and less of it and only use certain things like the Manson Trio, War as a Science was even slightly different, but inspired by. And of course, the choreography for Spread a Little Sunshine, you know, was completely new.
But his spirit permeated the show.But as the focus shifted even more towards that circus element, which to me was brilliant, you know, it was decided that they would just use very specific times to use his classic choreography.Yeah.
And I think it worked well.I really do.We had no idea
what it was going to be because especially as as the ensemble as the dancers in the piece, because they were using the circus elements, we rarely rehearsed in front of a mirror which talk about if your question about like what was different.
That was totally different for me because my whole life has been about you know, working in front of a mirror, fine-tuning in front of a mirror.
And because we had to work in these spaces where they, you know, they could hang the lira and the, you know, the silks and all these things, we were often never in front of a mirror.And that was challenging for me.
And also, it didn't allow us to really get a sense of what we were doing until we were doing it. And there was a lot of changing going on.It's because we started out at ACT in Cambridge, you know, changes going on the entire time.
Like sometimes coming in and doing one thing and then literally the next day scrapping it and doing something totally different.So a lot, you know, for a long part of that process, we had no idea what it was going to be.
And then it was, we were happy to see that, oh, we have something, you know.
And did you find that the leading player was a role that you got to go on for more, sort of explore more as an actor?
I did go on for a leading player.It was right before the Tonys when critics were still coming in to watch Bettina and watch the show.And as you know, it's exhausting, especially for the principal performers during that time.
There's so much going on, they're interviewing, we did the cast album, like there was so much going on.And I had actually gotten sick
I came in for a matinee and I had gotten sick, but I decided, let me just stay in my dressing room and see if I feel better.And I, you know, and I didn't feel better. By the time I woke up, it was time for the second show.
And they would tell me, well, you know, you either got to go home or, you know, you got to figure it out.I think they brought a doctor in.I was a mess.And I said, well, listen, I'm here.Let me just watch the show.I've never had a chance to watch it.
And that was the thing, because we were in such a workshop mode, everything was changing.I was rarely in the room when Patina was learning the track. So I, and of course there's, you're not auditioning.
I mean, audition, you're not rehearsing the understudies prior to opening.So I said, well, let me watch the show and see what's going on.And I watched that show and all of a sudden I could hear something in her voice that I'd never heard before.
And I was like, wait a minute, something doesn't sound right. And then sure enough, I get the call that she's out and I'm on.And I'm like, I'm barely feeling okay myself, but I'm like, okay, here we go.
And, you know, luckily I had my cabaret act experience because I surely did my club act up there because I didn't really know what was happening.I hadn't been pretty to rehearsals, you know.
So when I did it, you know, and I, you know, the show didn't have to close that night.And I think I got a chance to do it a couple more times after that.But, you know, just another amazing, amazing, amazing opportunity to be able to do that role.
But I got reviewed, which is crazy, you know, I was because it was a time when reviewers were coming in and it was right before the Tonys and all of these things.So I got I got a couple of reviews, which is great.Yeah.
And that doesn't happen, you know, for understudies that rarely happens.
Right.Right.And then maybe the last thing you did before you took the break that you were mentioning was the tour of Thoroughly Modern Millie.And what was that like to be on the road?
That was interesting because that was when I made the decision to take a break.Yes, no, am I getting my timeline right or wrong?I did Millie.My daughter had, I just had my daughter and I went on the road with her.
And she turned one on the road, that I do remember.My niece had taken a break from college, and I said, well, do you want to just travel around and take care of Mary?She was like, yes.
So she took care of my daughter while I was on stage, which was a blessing. But yes, again, joining the company, they had been touring, this was towards the end of the tour, and that was an amazing role, playing Muzzy.
I had so much fun doing that, but it was at that point where I said, you know, I didn't wanna raise my daughter on the road, I didn't wanna raise my daughter like that, so that's when I said, you know what, I really, I gotta take a break.
I think that I'm getting my timelines mixed up a little bit, but yeah. But yeah, I hope I answered that question.I had so much fun playing Muzzy.And Long As I'm Here With You, that was a number that wasn't as dancey.
Um, but they, they allowed me to come up with, you know, to make it a little bit more dancing.Um, so that was a joy to be able to, you know, do it in a little bit, uh, a bit of a different way.
Um, but I, yes, but I mean, but also to do a role that had been done by, you know, Shirley Ralph and, uh, Leslie Uggams.Oh my, oh my goodness.It was just like, Yeah, I could I can I do it.
But I did do it and it was a joy and you know it was just I just I just had a ball.I mean very few shows that I've done that I have not enjoyed the experience of doing the role.
You know, some people do roles, and they say, oh, I hated doing that role.I don't think I could ever say that about any role.I've loved every single role I've ever done, every single ensemble I've ever been in.If I could have had my way,
I, and I think cheetah always felt the same way to you know it's like she's always said that she was always a chorus girl at heart.
I feel the same way like I've always in my heart, I've always been a chorus girl if I could have stayed in the course my entire life my entire career, I would have been quite content.
But I'm 5'9 and 5'10 in heels, black woman and, you know, all these things and be like, no, no, you got, you know, and I wasn't going to be hired for in every single ensemble.
You know, Bob was wonderful about having different heights and different looks and things, but that wasn't always going to be the case. And so I was like, okay, I better develop all these other skills.
You know, I was not a singer first, certainly not an actor first, you know, I was a dancer first.And I thought that's all I would ever have to do.But it came to a point where it was like, okay, you got to develop these other skills.
And I did, you know, and I'm happy I did.
Yeah.Yeah.And so at this point in your life and in your career, what sort of interests you as things to do next or what kind of projects would appeal to you?
It's interesting.I am trying to be very intentional about what I do.I am fortunate enough that sometimes, not always, but sometimes I'm offered jobs, which is an amazing place to be.And other times I have to earn it.
I have to audition and I have no problem doing that.
But whatever it is, I now especially always just want to make sure that it is something different, something I haven't done before, going to challenge me in a way that it hasn't challenged me before.
that my husband can be with me, that my daughter is able to come visit me.There are other things that I take into consideration when I'm asked to do certain things.And I'm happy to be in a place where I can make those decisions.
And again, just trying to be very intentional about the decisions that I make. Yeah.
And since Pippin, have there been offers to come back to Broadway or sort of considerations of that?Or is that something you would be interested in?
Well, I mean, we're waiting with bated breath for Jelly.I mean, we hope that that's going to happen.And again, I hope I can be a part of that. But that's really the one that that's the one that I would love to come back and explore.
There have been other things that I've, trust me, there were other things that I've been seen for that I bet it didn't happen for me.And that's okay.That means I'm not meant to be, you know, in that room.And that's okay.But, um,
Yeah, and that's the one that I would love, you know that I'm really hoping can happen.I was involved in a, in a workshop, I guess that's the term for they have a lot of different terms for it these days of a play.
called When Playwrights Kill, that I had the opportunity to stage, do some staging for, I wasn't in it.And there were talks of that moving.
We actually had a theater for a minute, and then because there was time, we lost the actors, and you know how things go.And so we didn't wind up moving, but I hope, you know, I would hope that that comes up.
I have irons in the fire, waiting for one to ignite. You know, I'm developing my cabaret act.You know, I do a lot of, I did a lot of performing of my own show on the ships, which I love because my husband Arnie is retired.
So when we're on the ship, we get to have, you know, work and play at the same time.So, you know, working on my shows to go back on the ships, you know, trying to do more things that I'm able to develop and create or make happen.
It's a wonderful thing. And I know something you've done in recent years too is choreographed the Jimmy Awards.And what has that experience been like?
So much fun.I mean, you're working with, I don't even know how many young people coming in from all over the country, so talented.And this is a life-changing experience for them coming to New York, many of them for the first time.
and they have dinner at Sardi's and they go see a Broadway show and they get to talk to the cast.And I was able to go in and stage one of their production numbers.
They do several production numbers throughout the course of the night on the Minskoff Theater stage.I mean, you know, it doesn't get any better than that.And it's, I mean, it's challenging because I think it's about, we do it in about a week.
very short process and to move these bodies all around the stage.But it's very rewarding and it's great.And when I have had the opportunity to do it, I do it in a way that each young person gets showcase, gets a chance to showcase themselves.
And it's been great to see you know, not just the winners, but some of the others who aren't considered the winners go on with great careers and get their first Broadway shows.And yeah, I love that.
And, you know, and I go to work at places like, you know, Summer Stock at Forestburg Playhouse and, you know, or a regional theater somewhere. I love it because I get to meet and work with young performers and I'm inspired by them.
They're inspired by me.And I love it then when all of a sudden I hear and see that they're doing their first Broadway show and I get to go see them.It's just, I love that.I get so much out of it.
Yes, yes.And then the final question I'd love to ask you is with such a wonderful career, what advice would you give to someone just starting out
Well, I'm finding these days, because I do get to mentor young people.And I think because of, you know, So You Think You Can Dance and American Idol and The Voice, a lot of young performers think that if it doesn't happen, it can happen overnight.
But a lot of young performers think if it doesn't happen overnight, then that's it.Like, they go back home and, you know, they get frustrated.And it's important to understand that, you know,
You know, to quote the phrase, I mean, longevity has its place.And you have to be willing to be in it for the long haul.And you have to be willing to do the work.You have to be willing to accept that rejection as part of that work.
you have to understand what your, or develop and understand what your value is so that you continue to try to bring that value into a room where they recognize it.You know, just stay in it. You know, stay in the game.
It's important to stay in the game and know your worth.You know, keep working on yourself, keep developing yourself, work hard, study hard, know your worth.
That is great advice.Well, thank you so much for doing this.It's been so wonderful to talk to you.
It's been so great, Charles.
Thank you for having me. Listeners, thank you for tuning in, and remember to come back next time when I will be joined by actor and director Daisy Prince.
Daisy Prince appeared on Broadway in Merrily We Roll Along and in The Follies concert at Lincoln Center and The Petrified Prince at the Public Theater.
As a director, she spearheaded the Jason Robert Brown musicals Songs for a New World, The Last Five Years, and The Connector.You won't want to miss that episode, so make sure to tune back in for that, and thanks for listening.
Sign in
