Alright, back in 1994, there was a movie trailer that came out and it featured two alpha male captains of the Star Trek franchise.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard and Captain James Tiberius Kirk meeting for the first time in a movie called Star Trek Generations.
Now, John, I want to talk about because this is something that was not common in 1994 that I feel like fans and and people and moviegoers take for granted now.But in my opinion, this is like one of the first
major crossovers that I think we see in, you know, movie pop culture of two television shows sort of crossing over and their main characters meeting up on the big screen.
When you first saw the trailer or the poster or when the first time you heard about starter generations, were you super excited that Captain Picard was going to meet Captain Kirk?
I was 100% excited about this.
My biggest memory of getting excited about this crossover was the poster and the tagline with Kirk and Picard's faces on the blue poster and the tagline, two captains, one destiny, which I still think is one of the greatest taglines I've ever heard for any movie or certainly on a movie poster.
It's a good looking poster, I will say that.
Yeah, absolutely.It's the simplicity of two captains, one destiny, and the question it poses.It makes you instantly excited.What's this destiny going to be?What's going to happen when they meet?
It turned out it was just three old men fighting on top of a mountain. Hey, the promise of it.
I will say, you know, this to give everybody a little bit of early early nerdery that you're going to hear in this episode.I have gone to the Valley of Fire where they filmed these three old men climbing up over these rocks in Las Vegas.
And I will tell you, you can go to the exact hill where the missile Soren's missile was, and they still have embedded into the rock the little metal ladder that goes up because I guess they couldn't.They just were just like, I leave it there.So I
Look, it's not the most exciting action climax in this movie of three old men climbing around a rocky mountain But like it's still cool.It looks cool.It looks it looks really cool, right?
I totally dig it actually I did not know that you mean you can literally go to the valley of fire and go to the exact spot you can died you can go to the exact not the exact spot where Kirk died but the exact spot where they like the missile launcher was and that Sauron like climbed up to the top of the mountain and like waited for the Nexus to like take him away and
That is so cool.I have to gather all my Star Trek nerd friends and make a road trip out of it.
It's a pretty cool place.And you know what?Also, speaking of a cool place, welcome, everybody, a geek history lesson.I'm Jason Inman.
This is the podcast where a TV writer from Kansas takes you down the road and tells you everything you need to know about one movie from pop culture.And Ashley Robinson, my co-host, is out this week.
But do not worry, because I brought in a very special guest. to celebrate the 30th anniversary of Star Trek Generations, the 7th Trek movie, and the first Trek film to feature the cast of the Next Generation TV show.
He is, well, I needed a Star Trek expert, and as you can tell, we've already nerded out.We gave it away, Kirk dies in this one.He meets Picard, and it's three old men climbing around a mountain. That's the climax of this movie.
That's how confident they were about Star Trek, that they were just like, let's have three men in their 50s, one was probably in their 60s at the time, climb out over a rock.That's gonna get the asses in the seats.
And I needed the head of Star Trek coverage over at Screen Rant, Mr. John Orkeola, to join me.John, thank you so much for joining us in the pod.
Jason thank you for inviting me.I am a huge huge fan of yours Going all the way back from DC all-access.
I'm you know yeah, absolutely, so this is really a huge honor for me Well, you know don't be too honored because you know I'm gonna set you up for a question that the the fans might throw a softball right to your head or something like that they might be like well this guy was cool talking about three old men circling Circling a mountain
But like, let's hear his choice of this.You know, to set the tone, you know, you are the head of Star Trek coverage.I do.I do enjoy all your Star Trek articles and your Star Trek tweets.
And, you know, it's nice to see somebody that's that still is passionate about the franchise because there's so many franchises out there.So I want to know, John. What is your favorite Star Trek show and why?What show do you go back to?
Yeah, by far number one.The most expansive, the most diverse, the most fascinating cast.For me, Sisko is the greatest captain of all time.Agreed. Not just an incredible commander, but a father, a spiritual leader, a war commander.
He encompasses pretty much everything you'd want in a Star Trek captain.And just the depth of storytelling.
The places Deep Space Nine went, not just the journey to the final frontier, but the journey within, exploring all these incredible characters.And also, it's a pioneering show.It basically helped create serialization on television.
It was ahead of its time, and it's as good today, if not better, than it was 30 years ago.
I find myself going back to it on Pluto TV, the Pluto TV app quite a bit and just randomly sitting down and just enjoying an episode because they have their own Star Trek D space nine show.
And I've said this many times on, you know, I, I find when I think about my favorite television shows of all time, my opinion, just like, you know, everybody's favorite movie changes all the time.
I always find myself going back to Star Trek D space nine because I feel like it is the show that made me love television and it is the show that made me love Star Trek, but I agree with you.It's my it's it is far and away.
I think the best Star Trek show in for me.It's it's my favorite television show of all time.Wow, it I just can't.
There are other ones that I think objectively might be better, but for myself and my enjoyment, I just I always love visiting D space nine.It just has everything I want in a television show.
So you know, I totally agree.
All right, everybody, let's get into the 10 cent origin of Star Trek Generations.That is, if you are going to a cocktail party at Starbase 80 and somebody asks you what Star Trek Generations is about, you can give them all the cliff notes here.
So this was directed by David Carson.It had a screenplay by Ronald D. Moore and Brannon Braga, two legendary luminary writers of the Star Trek franchise with a story.
Interestingly enough, Rick Berman comes in here on story credit with Ronald D. Moore and Brannon Braga. It of course was starring the TNG crew, has cinematography by John A. Alonzo, who is gonna get a couple shoutouts here, music by Dennis McCarthy.
It was released November 18th, 1994 with a budget of $35 million and it went on to make the box office of $118 million. So very, very small budget for the time.
So one thing I want to talk here about, John, is that a lot of people may not realize that Star Trek Generations in the fall of 1992, this was the first time during the sixth season of Star Trek Next Generation that Paramount Pictures
Approached Rick Berman the producer about creating a seventh Star Trek film now they wanted Star Trek 7 to basically be a vehicle for the next generation cast, but apparently it was Rick Berman and paramount exec Brandon Tartikoff
They wanted to make the movie a pass the baton movie from the original series to the new the next generation.So maybe this is why Rick Berman gets story credit, because he was like, it's got to be a crossover.
Now, I did not know this, but John, are you familiar with a starting next generation writer named Maurice Hurley?
Yes, he was a showrunner of season two.
Yes.And yes.And he is sort of a 1980s TV procedural crime writer guy who who who sort of got into Star Trek.He was hired to write a draft of this movie.And apparently this movie had sort of a script to bake off where they hired multiple writers.
They hired Maurice Hurley and then they hired also then current TNG writers, Ronald D. Moore and Broughton Braga.
Now apparently, Maurice Hurley drafted a film where Captain Picard recreates Captain James T. Kirk on the holodeck to help solve a crisis involving an interdimensional species causing chaos.
But then Ronald D. Moore and Brian Obraga initially had the idea of the two Enterprise crews facing off against each other, and that is why their script was chosen, but eventually they completely abandoned that.
Now, they were writing Star Trek Generations at the same time they were writing the series finale, All Good Things.Now, Ronald D. Moore, Brandon Braga also wrote that finale.I don't know about you.
How do you feel about All Good Things, the TNG finale?
I mean, I honestly feel All Good Things is one of the greatest TV finales of all time.Where's one of the greatest final lines of all time?
Well, the sky's the limit.Yes.John, John, I have a feeling you and I are of a breed, as they would say, as they would say in Balance of Terror and another life in another universe, we would have been friends.But and we are in the same universe.Yeah.
So so Ronald Moore and Brona Braga also wrote All Good Things.It's interesting.I do agree.I do think that is one of the greatest TV series finales of all time.I also think
In a lot of ways, All Good Things could have been the first TNG movie in a lot of ways.It really worked as the first TNG movie.So it's interesting.
Ronald Moore and Brandon Braga have later said that they actually think that All Good Things is way stronger than Star Trek Generations.And they'd be right.They are 100 percent right.But let's get this out of the way, John.
I think Generations gets a bad rap. It is.I think it is not as bad as everybody makes it out to be.It's not perfect, but I will say this.I do not think it's the worst TNG film by any stretch of the imagination.
Oh, it is certainly not the worst TNG film.Yeah.
But I mean, let's talk about this.You know, what do you think?Like, how much do you think them finishing the final season of Star Trek Next Generation influenced this film or detracted from this film?
That's a really good question.Well, let's see.The finale was being written at the same time as this film, knowing that they had a big gimmick to fall back on, which was Kirk meeting Picard.
Yeah. The pressure of concluding The Next Generation, I think was probably in some ways greater, just because they had to cap off seven years of this incredible show that was at the peak of its popularity when it ended.
Whereas switching over to the feature film, as big as that had to be, I feel like maybe they approached it as, well, we have an ace in the hole.
We have something that's guaranteed that people are going to flock to, which is the fact that these two captains are going to meet for the first time ever on the big screen.
And maybe there was a bit more focus on ending TNG as strong as possible, knowing that they had something that was a surefire thing to bring people to the movie theaters.But that's just my guess on that.
Well, you're probably right on that.And also, like, you know, ending TNG, they could kind of make it like a victory lap.
You know, like it's them finishing the marathon, whereas Star Generations would have been, you know, they would have had to have gotten movie executive notes, which is something they would not have gotten on the All Good Things finale.
They probably I almost guarantee you had to get notes from William Shatner as well. Um, and I'm not certain if this was the movie where Patrick Stewart leveled up.Uh, but I, I know in Star Trek first contact that is somewhere in there.
Patrick Stewart also levels up to an executive producer and also starts giving notes on the films, which is a big reason why in later TNG films, Patrick Stewart, Captain Picard becomes an action hero.
which is something that he never did in the TV show.And that was all because of Patrick Stewart kind of not wanting to sit in a chair anymore.So it's one of those things where, like, I don't know.
I don't know if there was any version of this movie that would have been perfect just because they had to serve so many different masters. at this point?
Absolutely not.I mean, Paramount had their own requirements for what this movie had to be.I believe it was a Paramount note or demand that Data have his own subplot, and that would be a comedy subplot.
I also remember reading William Shatner's Star Trek movie memories, where he talked about how, yes, he also had the scripts brought to him.
And I think there was one meeting at one point where Ron Moore and Brandon Braga had to appease Shatner with certain things about the script.And of course, they had to reshoot his death scene.We'll get to that.We'll get to that.Yeah, exactly.Yeah.
Well, John, that's a great answer.
Real quick, everybody, I want to remind you that if you're liking what John is saying to you right now and you want to hear more on his thoughts about where the TNG movie franchise could have gone, come check out our Patreon-only podcast, Geek History Lesson, at patreon.com.
That's where we have ad-free episodes, exclusive podcast, discord, a brand new podcast called talking Titans, all about the teen Titans.
So support that show, give it some love, get yourself some bonus pods for the holiday travels and hang out at patrion.com slash jawline.And I just want to give a thanks to all the super friends that do.All right, so now it's time.
to get to this movie, John, with an opening credits that I think takes way too damn long of watching a bottle just spin in the air.You know, it's funny because I usually love track opening sequences, but
I think part of it, it's the choice by, because to have the music from, I believe David Carson made the choice to have the music by Dennis McCarthy, who was one of the TV composers, just be very soft and very like lackadaisical.
It doesn't give anything.You're just kind of just like, okay, I'm just kind of waiting for the bottle to hit, but I do love opening with the christening of the USS Enterprise B and the return of Captain Kirk.
So what do you think about opening this movie in the 23rd century and introducing for the very first time the Enterprise B?
Well, before we get to that, I want to mention I think the opening score of The Bottle Flying Through was meant to evoke the magical mystery of the nexus.
I think it was supposed to kind of put you into a dreamy state to kind of evoke what was going to happen in terms of them leaping into this fantasy world.The Enterprise B is beautiful.I love the Excelsior class.I've always loved the Excelsior class.
It was very, very cool to see a new Enterprise.I thought it was a really cool opening.I thought it was great to see Kirk and Chekhov and Scotty again.Obviously, we wish we could have seen the whole cast, but we can get to why it's only those three.
Yeah.Yeah.DeForest Kelly and Leonard Nimoy were supposed to be those two roles.They both declined to appear.And it was said apparently there was some information from Larry Nemechek, you know, one of the Dr. Trek.He's one of the great Trek scholars.
He claims from his information that they did not change their lines.And I will say that in a slight rewatch of this movie, you can kind of tell that you can kind of tell who's who's who has it.Chekhov is you can kind of tell us with McCoy.
And then you can tell the Scottie lines are Spock a little bit like, you know, but you know, it's something I I don't mind check off.And I don't think Nimoy and DeForest Kelly were missed in this movie.
I do think they both got a better ending in, you know, Star Trek six, but also Leonard Nimoy is going to get even better ending in Star Trek 2009.
So, you know, I don't I don't miss them here, especially since Kirk is the only one that's ever going to cross over with the TNG crew.Now, if the whole
If the whole if it was going to be about an enterprise meeting enterprise, then I would be like, oh, yeah, we are missing the crew.But since it's only Kirk and Picard, I don't I don't really feel like I miss them here.I mean, do you agree with this?
Disagree?What do you how do you feel?
No, I ultimately I agree with that.I I feel like I feel like, you know, if if Spock and McCoy were both there, it almost would demand them being included in the rest of the movie as well.
So, I agree with you that if it was only going to be Kirk, then it made sense that it would be Scotty and Chekhov who would be essentially left behind while Kirk had to travel into the future.
And actually, I also agree with Larry Nemechek that yes, it is very clear that the lines really weren't changed that much.
And I remember Leonard Nimoy, one of his complaints about the script for Generations and that scene was that those lines really could just have been given to anybody.
Well, that's why he's a good director.I do think he's a good director, actually.Leonard E. Moore was a good director, I believe.Yeah, I think he was offered Generations, originally.He was.
I remember I do remember reading that, that he but I think he wanted too much creative control.And I believe that Paramount movie executives were kind of like, we're not going to give you you.All you directed was three men and a baby.
I don't think we're going to give you this.
Well, I mean, a director would have a lot more influence.He wouldn't just be handed a script and say, hey, go shoot this verbatim.And he did help create the story for Star Trek 6.
He was the driving force behind Star Trek 4, along with Nick Meyer, when they both wrote the script with Harvey Bennett. So, yeah, I mean, he was used to being able to have some say a good deal of say over Star Trek, at least in the movies.
Let's talk about this.So the main thrust or the main hook of this movie is the nexus, this sort of energy ribbon that is full of if you get inside it is wish fulfillment.But this is sort of our.
This is our hook, this is how we connect the 23rd century of Star Trek to the 24th century of Star Trek.What are your concepts on, how do you feel about the nexus?How do you feel about this?
Because I will tell you, I'm a little conflicted about the nexus.
Oh gosh, the nexus is an idea that was clearly not thought through.Please go into that more. I mean, so little of it really makes sense.
It doesn't make any sense.
I think that's what my problem with it is.Yeah, not at all, which is why we never saw it again.It honestly only existed to bring Kirk into the future.That's the only reason it actually...
that's the only basis for it even existing, because nothing about it makes sense.Picard goes into the Nexus and, you know, and Guy Norton warns him, like in the movies, like, you know, once you get in there, you're never going to want to leave.
And he lasted 10 minutes, 10 minutes.He couldn't wait to leave.And it was apparently it's very easy to leave.It's impossible to get in there.You literally have to destroy a solar system to get the Nexus to come to a planet.
I mean, Soren chased it for 100 years and couldn't get in.
Yes, but then once you're in, you can walk right out.
Yeah, that's the that's the other thing about the Nexus is that there is something in this idea of like, you would think that in the Star Trek universe that people randomly from other timelines would just drop into places randomly.
You'd be like, Whoa, how'd you get here?You know?Oh, my God.Genghis Khan is literally my next door neighbor.How did that happen? You know, he's like, well, I walked out of the Nexus.Oh, my God.
But, you know, something I will give this movie is this movie.I'm going to call this right now.This is the most beautiful TNG.I'm going to say I'll even say this before the Abrams films.
I think this is the one of the most beautiful Star Trek films ever shot, because John Alonso, they brought him on.He's the cinematographer.He was the DP.He also did Chinatown and Scarface.The
There are shots in this movie, in some of the future scenes, where they are outside of sun, or they are orbiting a sun, and it is the first time I've ever seen in a Star Trek show, which doesn't quite make sense, but it looks so beautiful, that the sunlight is so bright, and it's bathing the inside of the Enterprise-D, and it looks so damn gorgeous.
Um, and it was like one of the first times where I can remember seeing this movie and saying to myself, Oh my God, that is Star Trek on a movie budget.Holy cow.
Um, because like very quickly in the very next movie, they go right back to like, let's just make it look like a TV show.It's fine.Um, I mean, but how do you, what do you think this movie looks different from the other Star Trek movies?
Very much so.Um, I, I do like, the cinematic way it was shot.I mean, it's really funny that for some reason in this story, in this movie, somebody shut the lights off in the Enterprise, but it looks great.
Well, there's extra chairs, there's extra monitors for some reason.
Right.But somebody forgot to pay the light bill because apparently the bridge is now darker than it ever was, but it looks really cool.Again, they added extra stations, right, to the bridge?
They gave Warf a chair.They lowered his little, I don't know what you call his little console that he stands up over Picard's bridges.It's like half the height of what it was before.
Yeah, but but it looks really cool.
I think it looks really, really good.All right.
So everybody, now we're going to I'm going to ask John one of the most important questions of this entire podcast, what he thought about the introduction of the next generation crew into this movie, their their feature film debut.
But we're going to find out what that is right after this.
Alright geek history lesson we're back talking about Star Trek Generations and John I need to know you know you've been watching these Star Trek Next Generation characters for seven years and you've been thinking to yourself man I can't wait to see these guys in a movie.
I wonder what it's going to look like when they first appear on the big screen with a big budget and amazing cinematography from John Alonso.
And in any version of that, did you say they're going to be dressed up like they are in the British Navy just hanging out?
I don't think anybody could have predicted that, which is actually kind of why it was cool.And of course, you know, it all boils down to three words, which was remove the plank.Yeah.
I mean, I will I will give you this.I like it, although I do have to give it a little bit of guff that like the first time is the holodeck that you're like, oh, my God, the holodeck.But I give it a pass because you know what?
We get a nice wink to the continuity of the show that this is about the promotion of Worf. And he finally gets to become a lieutenant commander, because he's been a lieutenant for the entirety of the series.
And I like to think that they do this with all of the, like, I like to think that every person that's been, you know, when Troy became a commander in the final season, that they did the same thing.
They were like, all right, start up the British Navy program.
It's time to get the promotion out.But I think they did.There's actually a line that Riker says about how this has happened before.So I think this actually is their tradition.Yeah.
It's such a perfect thing that Patrick Stewart or Captain Picard would probably want to do.It totally fits in his character.
You know, it's interesting because, yeah, it's it's a really I mean, I will say that part of me thinks that maybe they did that because when I think about this movie from an editing standpoint, that, you know, if you were to just go right to the Enterprise D,
you know, from the Enterprise B. Like, you know, we, we live the, we leave the Enterprise B with like, oh crap, uh, we think Captain Kirk is dead.Oh man.
You know, we're kind of doing a similar, like a tip of our hat back to Wrath of Khan where like Spock was fake dead at the beginning of the whole thing, you know, uh, in the training scenario.
And if we'd cut right to the Enterprise B and them being on the ship, you're just going from, you know, a spaceship set to a spaceship set.But if you park this sequence of Oh, my God, they're on a sailing ship from the, you know, 18th century.
It is a nice little break, but I will say that there is a scene later on after this where, like, they go to the observatory, I believe they get the is it is they get the distress call from the observatory and Captain Picard is still in the HMS Pinafore uniform standing on the bridge.
And it's like a little like, what's this about?What is what's going on here?
I do want to point out, in terms of the sailing ship, it's visually cool.It's a really cool image to transition to that's very unexpected.
But also, we have to remember that even though this is the seventh Star Trek movie, and a large majority of the audience would have been Next Generation fans who are used to the holodeck, there was also expected to be a general audience who had never seen the holodeck before in a Star Trek movie.
So it was a good way to introduce that idea that, oh my gosh, you know, on this on this particular enterprise, you can have you have a room that can create anything.
So that I thought that was a very cool way to introduce the holodeck to a brand new audience.
See, John, this is making sense where you're the head of the Star Trek content over there at Screen Rant.So you got this you have this like you have this just like smooth as butter way of looking at it.
It's very it's a perspective that I would not have thought about, you know, during this We have to talk about, there is a pretty serious subplot in this movie, all featured around Captain Picard and characters that we've only met once before.Yes.
And I would love to hear your thought, because during the holodeck scene, he gets to communique that we don't find out about later, that he's very upset about, that his brother, Rene, is that right?
Robert is his brother-in-law and his nephew Rene.
Yes, thank you.R&R.They have died in a fire.And his sister-in-law, too.And his sister, yes, who we met in the TNG episode Family.Yes.So they are murdered off screen.Now, I understand why in a movie about time, in a movie about family,
why that makes sense.I you know, how do you feel?What do you feel about this?Or the thing I like about it is that it does give Patrick Stewart a very emotional level to go for that he normally doesn't get to do as Captain Picard.
But I don't know how well or how effective I think it works.And the reason why I think I'm iffy on it is because these are characters, again, that we've only met
once, and to the person, most people watching this movie, they probably haven't even seen that episode, so to them, they're just like, oh, Captain Picard's brother, who I have no idea is, died.Okay, but what do you feel about this subplot?
Well, it's an interesting thing, because It's such a tragic thing for him to happen to him.And obviously, the point was to communicate that he is the last Picard.
He's now going to live a very lonely life where the Enterprise is now pretty much all he has, and his crew is his family.
And I believe it was Patrick Stewart who came up with this idea of killing off the Picard family to kind of give John Luke some weight, some gravitas to play off of.But the weirdest thing about it, if we can move a little bit into the Nexus idea.
Oh, that's the best movie in the Nexus, man.
Yeah, the weirdest thing about this idea is that because he could have gone back in time to go to any point, he could have used the Nexus to save his family, but it never occurs to him.
You're exactly right.Oh, my God.I had never considered that with this.You are 100 percent correct that he could have saved his brother.And you're a son of a bitch, Captain.
He's like, well, you're a terrible person.Well, they're gone. I have to get to that missile complex and circle around this mountain with a couple of old men."
That's the that's a that's a time travel trope that like I don't think is ever going to go away.Right.Because the most dramatic aspect of it is to put that character there like five seconds before the missiles going on.
But yes, anybody, if you if we had the power of time travel, yes, you would, you know, for the worst worst scenario, you would go back and murder, murder Hitler in his in his when he's a baby.You wouldn't wait.
You wouldn't wait right before he burns down the Reichstag. You wouldn't, you wouldn't wait, right?Oh, okay.He's going to cross the sidewalk with his army.That's when I'm going to shoot him.No, you would, he would go for the easy go.Like, yeah.
But yeah, why the, he could have, he could have, he could have gone back in time, saved his brother and still stop Soran.Yes.Because he would have had like two, he could have like got all the ships.
He was like, I need an armada.There's a man named son.He's going to go to this bill and he's got his planet called Viridian three.And we're just going to light it up with photon torpedoes.
Unfortunately, it's not in the movie's budget.Oh, damn.
We can only see two other ships.Oh, no.All right.Let's talk about Dr. Sorin.So, you know, they come across the observatory and we meet Dr. Tolian Sorin, played by Malcolm McDowell, who I think does a lot of heavy lifting with
Not a very fleshed out character, but man, does he get some amazing lines of dialogue.Like, I think time is the fire in which we all burn.
And there's a really good scene between him and Picard in 10-4, basically about life and death, and Picard petrified does some very heavy breathing during this dialogue scene, which I think is supposed to explain his sadness.
But, you know, it's interesting.I think that Sauron, is really not a great villain.But I do think Malcolm McDowell plays the hell out of this role.
And I think he actually elevates this villain higher than what I think if it was played by a different character.But what do you think about Dr. Sorin?
I 100% agree with you that he does so much with relatively little.You know, obviously Sorin is one of the late, is at this point the latest attempt to try to replicate the kind of villain Ricardo Montalban was as Cod.You need a heavy,
You need somebody with gravitas, you need somebody who can stand against your captain and be intimidating and be malevolent even.
And he does a great job even though, I mean, this is really just a guy who, well, yes, he wants to destroy a whole social system just to get back to his dream fantasy world. It's not much on the page, it's not much to play against.
But at the same time, yeah, he really does, he tears it up.And he obviously has a ball being opposite Shatner and opposite Patrick Stewart.
And I know because I've heard him in interviews that he just relished the idea that he was going to be the guy who gets to kill Kirk.
Yes.Yeah.That's the reason why he signed on.Yeah.Yes.He apparently received death threats, apparently from assessed fans.But as also later said, because fun fact, we're talking about D space nine earlier.
Siddiq El-Fadil is his nephew who played Dr. Julian Bashir.And Julian Siddiq has said in later conventions that his uncle, Malcolm, later told him that he thought the script was absolute crap.
So, uh, but he, but he did sign on for it because he was like, how could I not be the guy that kills Captain Kirk?That's going to be awesome.Uh, and now he's sort of the guy that. sort of accidentally caused the death of Captain Kirk?
Anyways, it's something.There's a lot of ways where you think about Sauron and there's sometimes with his obsession with the Nexus in this movie and it almost has a subtext of a drug addict in a lot of ways.
There's certain, I can see tones of that in this movie where that his drug is the Nexus and he will do whatever he can to get to it.
Yeah, yeah, I can see that.And he he was separated from for 80 years.So you can understand like the madness that that possessed him to where he was willing to sacrifice billions of lives just to get what he wanted.
Yeah, it's the ultimate high.All right.So talking about the here's our other comedic subplot data finally gets. his emotion chip.This was an emotion chip from his brother, Lore.He installs it.
We get lots of fun where, you know, I mean, he sings songs and he has a drink in the bar and, you know, I don't know.What do you, what do you think the experiences with Data's emotion chips add to this movie?
And was this, was this a necessary subplot?I mean, I get it without it, this movie is kind of dark, but how do you feel about Data's arc in this movie?
Well, can we first just point out that the reason why he the unfeeling android decided he had to activate his emotion chip was because he actually felt bad that he pushed Dr. Dr. Crusher into the water.
There's a lot of arguments, by the way, and I kind of lean towards this, too.There's a lot of people that have the argument that data actually does have feelings and he's just pretending not to.
Yeah, I think he has some, I always thought so.He has some semblance, he has some understanding of it.Yeah, more so than what he says in dialogue.Yes, he does.
Yeah, and it's definitely like, it's learned behavior, but he also understands how his actions affect others.And he can kind of glean what the meaning of emotions are from how he affects others.The emotion chip subplot though is,
I understand what they were going for.It never worked for me.Miss Mr. Tricorder.
Yeah, just some of that.Some of that really seems like they they probably had Brent Spiner improv on set.And just that was the best he could come up with on the day.
Because, yeah, there was a couple of parts of it where I was just like, there had to have been something funnier than this.Yeah.Yeah.Come on.
And it's so strange, too, because if you watch some of the scenes where he'll go off on these weird emotional tangents, he'll laugh, he'll cry, he'll whatever, and then all of a sudden he'll switch right back to, well, yes, Captain, the Star, the armory of the Star has been destroyed.
It's such a bizarre switch.
It's a hard twist, yeah.You know, something we also have to talk about, and speaking of datas, this is something that's bothered me as a Trek fan for a long, long time.You know, Star Trek,
You know, I actually think Star Trek, you know, for as loosey-goosey as they used to be with continuity, I always thought they did a pretty good job with most of their continuity.
Every once in a while, there'd be a line here and there, but there is a line in this movie that Data says that has always bothered me from the very first time I saw it, and as another Star Trek fan, I was like, it is a Data line with Geordi La Forge.
Do you know the line I'm gonna say? Ah, no, no, I'm actually very curious.Okay, so there is a point where Data and Jordy are examining the station, they're searching the station for trilithium, and Data starts laughing.
And Jordy's like, what's going on?And he says, oh, I finally understand the joke that Riker said on the bridge seven years earlier during the Farpoint mission, which is a reference to Encounter Farpoint, the very first episode of TNG.
And the punchline is, the clown can stay, but the Ferengi in the gorilla suit has to go.Now, the problem with that is that they don't meet the Ferengi until about halfway during Star Trek The Next Generation's first season.Right.
So to me, it's always like they, so anyways, that's my, there, I just put my nerd hat on.There you go, everybody.That's my, that's Jason's big nerd moment for this episode.That's always, that's a big continuity gaffe or anything like that.
Okay, let's talk about this. They were going to give the TNG crew new uniforms for this movie.So much of the fact that you can find Star Trek Generations action figures where they have these.I think they look terrible.
These like weird colored collars and they sort of have like a sort of Rathacon sort of tunic.But apparently they ran out of money and they still wanted to do something.
So, you know, they started putting some of the characters in the deep space nine uniforms.
Yeah, and literally the Deep Space Nine uniforms, the exact uniforms the other actors were wearing.
Yes, I heard the only two, the only two ones.So they, you know, the colored shoulders and the black, which also is one of my favorite Star Trek uniforms.
But I heard the only two they actually made were Data's and Picard's just because they were on screen the most.And Riker is literally wearing Captain Sisko's uniform, an extra from Deep Space Nine to be similar in size.
And then Geordi is wearing one of Chief O'Brien's from Deep Space Nine because they were a similar size.
Yes, I remember hearing Jonathan Face once joke about the fact that he was wearing Avery Brooks's costume and how it didn't fit.
Yeah, it's the reason why their their sleeves are rolled up is because the high is to hide it.But so but I mean, I like that.I mean, what do you I mean, do you think I mean, I will. you know, give a little bit of preference here.
Star Trek First Contact, I actually think has the best Star Trek uniform of all time.The little gray shoulders.Yes.And that's the very next movie.So I guess I don't mind that they didn't get a new uniform.
I mean, have you are you have you seen these generations action figures uniforms?Are you a fan of them?
Yes, I have seen them.I can't say I'm a fan of them.I think they look weird.You know, I do.I mean, I actually like seeing Patrick Stewart in the DS9 jumpsuit.I thought I think they look great.
But I always just I always I always just thought that that uniform looks great.And but you're also absolutely right that the first contact uniforms that were later were adopted by Deep Space Nine are fantastic uniforms.
Yeah, 100%.Now, I know we're going to we're going to kind of jump quite a bit.I'm sorry, John, because there's a there's a there's a there's a lot of like, where is Sauron in this movie?
And besides a really cool scene in stellar cartography of Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner in front of a green screen, I kind of think I'm not a lot happens in the middle of this movie.
And until we finally get to Viridian three, you know, there's there's a nice little subplot bit with Guinan that there's a piece of Guinan back in the Nexus and stuff like that.I also love that.
Whoopi Goldberg refused to be credited for this movie because she's just a huge Star Trek fan. Wow, which is really cool.I have not confirmed this.I've heard she wasn't even paid for this movie.
Like she literally just came and did it because she was like, I want to be in a Star Trek movie.Interesting.I didn't know that.Yeah.
So we get to Viridian 3 and I want to I want to I want to talk about here, John, that our big villain for the Enterprise, because, you know, we have Sauron on the surface.We have Picard on the surface there.The villain face off.
and in in an orbit of radiant three we have the enterprise D versus Lursa and Bator Klingon B plot characters right I mean of all the characters they could they I mean we had seven years of TNG they literally could have pulled in anyone else and the two characters they decide on and where they were like hey
These two lady Klingons, that's the characters that fans want in the first TNG movie.How do you feel about Lursa and Bator, the goofus and gallant of the Star Trek universe, being the villains of this movie, being villains in this movie?Yes.
Double boob windows, double boob windows, double boob windows.
I honestly, I think that's the only reason they probably had them in there because it was like, oh, look at those boob windows.
Oh, yes.But And how is it that they are the ones responsible for destroying the Enterprise?
That's the other thing.Lursa and Bator, we are our hero ship of the next generation, the Enterprise D, one of the most beautiful ship designs of all time.
And these two ding dongs are the ones that destroy it simply because they put a camera inside of Geordi's visor. That's what they do.
And I want to talk about another continuity gap we've seen inside of Jordi's visor before, and it doesn't look like a camera.It looks like heat patterns and like, you know, a Jackson Pollock painting.
Yeah.Yeah.And also, speaking of continuity gaps, I think it's a completely different cat that plays spot in generations, like a completely different breed of cat. Oh, really?
Yeah, I'm not sure, but I think it's yeah, I don't think it's the same kind of cat as it is in the actual TV show.
Wow.OK, so data's can't even change.Oh, well, that's fine.I mean, porthos changes genders in Star Trek Enterprise, so it's fine.All right, everybody.
So we're going to get into finally what you've all been waiting for, the meeting between Captain Kirk and Captain Picard.We're going to find out John's thoughts on it right after this. Alright, everybody.
We're back still talking about Star Trek generations.I've still have John.He's trapped in the Nexus that is this podcast Alright, there's a there's a lot to talk about here.
So Sauron blows up the ship or the Sun because Worf is bad at aiming and Lursen Bator Destroy the Enterprise D. I know we're dunking on this movie a lot everybody, but we do like this movie and
Picard, you know, gets a 19th century fantasy where his his perfect life is this little English boy being like, give me a horsey that day.And then he decides to leave and go get help.
And his help is Captain Kirk, who is apparently it looks like living on a house in the Pacific Northwest somewhere where there are horses.You know, it's fine.Hey, I love the Pacific Northwest.It's beautiful.But he comes upon Captain Kirk.
chopping wood and making scrambled eggs.Now, there is a million ways you could have done this scene.And I have heard if you've never listened to the commentary track, have you listened to the commentary track of this movie, John?I actually have not.
It is well worth it.I don't know if it's on the Blu-rays, but it used to be on the DVDs of this, that little double box set DVDs of this movie.And they have one with Brannan Braga and Ronald D. Moore.
And they, it's so funny because you can tell they were like 15 years removed from like writing this movie.And they say a lot where they were just like, they talk a lot about this movie where they were like, ah, we kept.
We kept making choices to just do things differently because everybody wanted these two to meet on the bridge of the enterprise and the meet and battle and meet in this thing.
And he was like, we intentionally like tried to go as far away from that as we could.And they both were like, I don't know if we made the right choices.
I think they were they were both were like, if I was doing that now, I don't know if I would make that same choice.But it is an odd choice to have these characters meet up cooking scrambled eggs.What do you think about?
Because I will say, like the next scene where they're riding horses together, I really like, I think it's really good.And that's probably because William Shatner is such a huge horse riding fiend.
But what do you think about them sort of hanging out making breakfast?And that's the first meeting of Captain Kirk and Captain Picard.
Well, I believe the horse thing was put in specifically to appease Shatner and to win him over, and it worked. It is such a weird way to have them meet.It's such an odd setting.But I think also that's kind of why it works and why it's charming.
They're both these intergalactic outer space heroes who are technologically proficient and they meet in this rustic log cabin.And they do something so banal as, you know, Kirk scrambles eggs and Picard watches him and gives him dill.
In that, I think actually there's a lot of fun like little human touches that kind of I find very endearing.So, I kind of like the scene a lot and I just think they're both very good in it, but I think Shatner in particular is super, super charming.
I think he's really just, you can tell he's enjoying himself.
Well, they are very much giving Picard the sort of stick-in-the-mud role in this, where he's like, we've got to go back, we've got to rescue Verdi in 3.And Kirk's just like, look, I don't give a damn, man.And, you know, it is interesting for Kirk.
I will say that the one smart choice I do like about it is the idea of it
it presenting the choice of Captain Kirk, you know, being the duty bound officer and kind of showing him what his life could have been outside or if he had made a different choice.
Like I do have the part where he was like, I don't need I think the galaxy owes me one.I was saving the galaxy when you were diapers.I think galaxy owes me one.I really like that.
But also like it also, I think, does a really great choice of like really showing you who the character Captain Kirk is because
The thing that sort of makes Kirk come out to it is that there's some part of the nexus that even to Kirk doesn't feel real.
And he says this line where he says, you know, if Spock was here, he'd say, I was an irrational, illogical human being for taking on a mission like that.Sounds like fun.
And I was like, that is James T. Kirk to a T. And I, yeah, it's funny, like, you know, the more we talk about this, and I know we've probably been talking on Star Trek Generations more than we've been loving it, but it's so interesting because I find that
It's going to be a weird analogy, but I'm going to say it.There's a lot of starter generations that reminds me of the James Bond franchise.Oh, and now we're talking.OK, please elaborate.
So the reason I say this is because I do think there are a lot of bad James Bond movies and I love James Bond.But I find that when I watch a bad James Bond movie, like one that I intentionally know is bad, like Moonraker,
there are still scenes in it and there are still lines in it and moments in it that I love.I can find that in every James Bond movie and I feel like I can find that in every Star Trek movie too.
Like even the ones that I think are really bad, I think that there are moments that I, and it's funny because I think Star Trek Generations is peppered with that.
Like I kind of think that there is a moment or a line in every single scene that you're just like, that's a good beat.Oh, I like that.
But it's, but you know, it's like, it's like we were talking about with the scrambled eggs where you're like, God, what an odd choice to have these two men scrambling eggs.But man, what they're talking about is really interesting.
Yeah, you're right.And there's very good dialogue sprinkled throughout the entire movie.A lot of memorable lines, a lot of lines that you could conceive would end up in the trailer because they're just very, very distinctive.
Kirk's line about your grandfather being in diapers.And one of my favorites also is when Picard just goes, why would he destroy a star?Which, like, has been echoing in my brain for 30 years.
I love that line.Oh, so we can fly with it in a ship or something like that, you know, like it's whatever.Yeah.Yeah.You know, that's the interesting thing is I do think.
I do think this movie does a really good job of keeping the themes of time and legacy and mortality very present.
like a little flag on what I think what what like sort of bumps me on this movie and doesn't make this movie like an a plus is that I just don't think they execute those in scenes quite well but yes but every once in a while there's like a sprinkling there's like a moment where you're just like oh you hit it you hit it right on the head and that's like so good um because like again let's
Let's talk about you know this whole thing of the final battle So Picard convinces Kirk to leave the Nexus and of course they leave five seconds before Sorin destroys the Sun They give they literally get I think they give themselves two minutes.I
That's all they give themselves because there's that weird little circle that goes You know that's counting down And again, they could have like literally walked out and been on that planet before Sorin even got there
They could have literally stopped him from setting up the missile.That's what they could have done.Yeah, they could have done so many things.Like it boggles the mind what they could have done.
I mean, they could have appeared on the Klingon ship in his bedroom when he was sleeping, punched him in the face and tied him up.And then they would have also saved the Enterprise D. Oh, let's let's back up that real quick.
How do you feel about them?How do you think about them taking out the Enterprise D in this movie?
Oh gosh, so many complicated feelings about the loss.Let's hear them all, let's go.The loss of a D. Maybe don't say it that way.
I also shouldn't call it the fat one then.I like the design.I think the Enterprise D is a beautiful looking ship.
Oh, absolutely.Absolutely.I mean, as a centerpiece action sequence, it's great.It's incredible to look at.The saucer crashing into Viridian III.The whole thing looks great. But why was it done?
As we already covered that the two Klingon sisters found a way to bring down the shields and shoot through it.
And then just, I understand also that, you know, to kind of balance out the fact that they're going to kill Captain Kirk, the next generation also had to lose something and the Enterprise is a character in the movie.
And so, it was a second major character death.But at the same time... There's something about just the way it was done that just, it almost feels arbitrary.It almost just feels like, well, we did it just to do it.
And you are great.The sequence is great.The sequence of them dragging across the ground, I think is really good.Yeah.But yeah, it does feel like, and I will say this, that I love the Enterprise-E, but there is a feeling of, there is a feeling of,
missing the Enterprise D in those other movies.Yeah.Of like that.Like there's part of me that wish they would have let that ship ride through all of their movies.Because that ship was our home for seven years.I mean, we knew that ship.
And we have to say that I would say because, you know, whatever we think about Star Trek in the original series, TNG is the most popular aspect of the franchise.Yes.So I would say so.
The Enterprise D, I think, is more well known now than Kirk's Enterprise.
Oh, absolutely.And not just well known in terms of reputation, but I mean, 178 episodes hour long, where most of those episodes were set on the Enterprise-D.
And you just knew, you knew every corridor, you knew every room, you knew what 10-4 looked like, you knew what... The battle bridge looked like, you know, what the bridge looked like.
It was, you know, we were so intimately familiar with that ship that, you know, I understand why wanting to replace it in the next movie and having a brand new ship for the movies.
But we never got to know the anywhere near as well, nor could we, because we just there just wouldn't be enough time.
We just never.And again, I think it's a really cool ship.But yeah, there's a reason why spoilers at the end of Picard season three.They that's the ship they bring back, not not the Enterprise.
Okay, so let's talk about the three old men climbing around a rock lots of ropes and bridges and grates And a lot of like climbing up and down and over ropes and things by the way again if you go to the valley of fire It's very easy to google where that you can you will see the ladder that so wrong climbs up to the top of the mountain It's the one that's right over the missile but so this was a big problem in the movie because they're in the original ending of the movie and
They showed it to test audiences.Sauron Soren shoots Captain Kirk in the back.That's how he dies.
The test audiences hated it and they hated it so much that most in picture had Sherry Lansing gave them five million dollars to reshoot the ending. and they reshot the ending in September of 1994.
You know, Captain Kirk is struggling to reach a remote and the bridge falls.And there's a joke in the commentary where they were like, you know, you know, usually the bridge killed the captain in this one.It's not captain on the bridge.
It's bridge on the captain.But you know what?I will say. I will say that I do think that Kirk being shot in the back would have been the absolute wrong choice.
The action sequence leading up to it is not that great, but I don't know about you, man, but I do like Kirk underneath the bridge and his final conversation with Picard.But how do you feel about the death of the canon death of James T. Kirk?
I mean, what can we say about it at this point?It's. For what it was, William Shatner really did his best and played the hell out of it.
And I also really liked what he was trying to do where, you know, as he was, as life was literally slipping from his, from him, he was looking off into the horizon and he saw something that like both like
terrified him but also intrigued him and that's where Oh My came from.He saw the final frontier.He saw what was out there and he kind of met it with a mixture of fear and awe.
And I remember Shatner saying recently when his documentary came out that he just didn't feel like he got all of it and he would love to try to
I saw that clip.Yeah, you can find he did.He did it like Jimmy Kimmel, right?Like where he like he read he did that line again because he said he didn't name it.Yeah, because that's interesting.
That wasn't improv line in Star Trek is not really known for improv lines at that point.No, but I agree with you.I like that moment where he says, oh, my, I do like his like, oh, anything for the captain of the Enterprise.And it was fun.Yeah.Oh, my.
I do think it's a really good death and I and I really like the ending with Riker and Picard sort of like going through the Enterprise and and and them sort of like, you know looking for the photo album and you know, and they bring it's it's like them.
It's the almost ultimate Picard and Riker moment where Picard goes, Oh, what we leave behind is not as important as what we lived.After all, number one, we're only mortal.
And Riker gives him that classic Jonathan Frank smile and speak for yourself, sir.I plan to live forever.
Can we point out one thing, though, about that scene, which is which is absolutely hilarious?Do you remember the episode?I forgot which one it is.It just escapes me right now.But
Picard was given a artifact by his archaeology teacher called the Curlin Nesca.And it was this 10,000-year-old statue.And Picard freaked out when he saw it.He couldn't believe it.It was like the greatest thing that ever happened to him.
And then so in the sequence at the end of Generations, when they're picking through the garbage, you see Picard pick up the Curlin Nesca, hold it for a second, and then they toss it aside.It's frozen away.Right?It's just like.
That thing meant everything to him.
It meant more to him than his brother.It's like somebody seeing the Rosetta Stone and just being like, eh.Yeah, I'm not taking this with me.That's so funny.I know that's so funny.
The other thing I always think about every time I watch that scene where they're going through his broken office is that we have to assume, and it's never
ever mentioned, and this character is never named on screen, but we see this character, Captain Picard's fish in his ready room, the Livingston, the fish, is killed by this crash, and is never acknowledged, but you can see that the tank is broken.
Yeah, yeah.Picard's fish, his only pet is killed.Three major deaths in this movie. Three major deaths, four, yeah, might as well call it four.The brother, his nephew, Captain Kirk, and his fish, all gone.You know, there you go.
It's Hollywood, you know what I'm saying?It's Hollywood.So, okay, John, I think this is like the perfect way.What are your final thoughts on Star Trek Generations and its sort of spot in the general franchise?
Well, you know, the thing is, I really have very warm feelings about this film.This was the first Star Trek movie that I ever saw on the big screen.
Same, I saw it opening night.Yeah, same.
Yeah, same here.I gathered my friends, we went to the Sherry in Copley Place in Boston, which at the time was in 1994, was the best movie theater in Boston.All right.
And we were there opening night and I remember I was a brand new Star Trek fan and I loved it just because I was just enamored by seeing Next Generation on the big screen, seeing Captain Kirk on the big screen, seeing The Meek.
And I remember my friends who were massive Next Generation fans, lifelong Star Trek fans, were not happy at all with the movie.And I was like, what's the problem?I thought it was great.And obviously, they were right.The movie has lots of problems.
But at the same time, I don't know, man.I watch this movie pretty frequently.There are a lot of charming moments about it.There are a lot of things that I just really enjoy.
And of course, there's lots of parts where you just zone out because you just don't care about what's going on in the Armour Ghost Observatory.You don't care what's going on with the Klingons.
There's a whole middle section that really just you kind of just muddle through to get to Kirk meeting Picard. in the Nexus, but I don't know.Obviously, I don't think it's the worst TNG movie by any measure.It's certainly not the best.
The best was yet to come, which is just one more movie away.But I mean, I have no warm feelings whatsoever about Nemesis, like I do for Generations.To me, Nemesis really just is the worst movie.I mean, Star Trek V, I have
much, much warmer feelings towards the nemesis, not the bash.
So it's funny for me, I think I kind of agree with you, but I think I would put insurrection as the worst one, but that's just me.It's interesting.Sure, sure.
I mean, hey, I can get behind that argument, too.Yeah.
I mean, I agree, man.I saw it opening night on Joplin, Missouri, at the mall with a friend of mine.I remember we saw like cosplayers there for the and I was like, oh my God, people cosplay Star Trek.
And again, it was it was this was this this I saw this the same year that all good things ended.So like this was like a next generation high.And I agree with you.Like, I don't think this movie is as bad as everybody puts it out to be.
But you are right.There is a lot of just table setting until Kirk shows up. Yeah.And you can feel that in the movie.
And again, and there are some clunky things like we just we made jokes about the entire movie where you're like, oh, the the action climax of this movie is three old men climbing around a rock.
And it does get a little you're like, this is a weird thing to put in a Star Trek movie.And there is a there is part of yourself where you want to you are.
You do think about the missed concept of like, oh, man, it's too bad that Captain Kirk didn't get on a starship again. Yeah, I mean, even if it was just like a garbage scowl, like just a ship.
Oh, God, could you imagine?I mean, the thing that I mourn the very idea that I've worn every time I see this movie is that just even five minutes of Kirk setting foot on the Enterprise D and just agreed.Yeah.
Or imagine imagine if it was a scenario where let's say they were going to they were going to nix the Enterprise D in this movie no matter what.Right.
What if it was some weird way where it was like Picard was like, I'm going to go down on the ship and then he's beamed out at the last minute, similar to what they did in Nemesis.And it's Kirk and Kirk switches spots with them.
And like Kirk is the one that like crashes the Enterprise D to save the day.
Right, right, right, right.Yeah.So, like, one scenario could have been that Picard is on the planet fighting Soren, Kirk is on the Enterprise D, maybe Riker gets incapacitated somehow, and Kirk has to get in the chair.
And yes, you know, Kirk is unfamiliar with the D and it, you know, yes, and we end up losing it.
But just to have him commanding that ship, even for five minutes, and then beating back down to Verdian III and to help Picard fight Soren, and where he ends up dying, I mean, that would have been way, way cooler and more satisfying just to have
all those beats and all those moments that we just didn't see and how generations turned out.
It reminds me of it's always the thing where like I am a big believer in doing new things in franchises and doing things that are opposite of audience expectations.Me too, 100%.
Yeah, because I think that's how you grow these franchises and make them better.But there every once in a while, there is a thing where you're just like, look, if you're the captain of the enterprise, we want to see you on an enterprise.
And it's very similar to like, I remember Patrick Stewart when he came back to do Star Trek Picard, he very much said in all the interviews for season one, he was like, he was like, this is not going to be a continuation.
We are not going to see the crew.We are not going to be on a starship.This is going to be very different.And, you know, we watched two seasons of that show where basically the public's reaction to it was kind of like. I don't know about this.
I don't know.And then when they did the, Hey, it's the enterprise, it's the TNG crew.They're all here with Picard.Everybody was like, this is what I wanted from the very beginning.
And you're like, yeah, there is a, there is a, the thing to, to, there is a point to, to turning audience expectations, but there is also a point to meeting our expectations.So I think you're exactly right.Like That's a great thought.
We never seen William Shatner on the Enterprise D set because we saw we saw Scotty on the Enterprise D set.We saw McCoy on the Enterprise D set.We did not see Spock.
I mean, he was on the screen, but he was in the show, but he never got on the Enterprise.But yeah, to not see James T. Kirk one last time on the bridge of an enterprise, I think was a very it was a big missed opportunity.
Yeah.And, you know, we did see Picard on the Enterprise 1701 bridge because he was there with Scotty in the holodeck.So we got that.
But yeah, we just didn't get the reverse with Shatner and Kirk on the Enterprise D, which I mean, I don't know, like what a missed opportunity.And we'll never have it again.
If you were to give this, I'm just very curious if you were to give this a like a rating out of, you know, if nobody's seen if you listen to this podcast this far and you haven't seen Star Trek Generations, but boy, how do we just ruin the entire movie for you?
But there are some great moments in it.I do recommend watching it.If you were to give it like a score out of one to five, five being the best, where would you where would you put this movie? I think it's a three.I agree with that.
I think it's a three, too.I think it's a high end three.It's a very solid three.
Yeah.Yeah, I would say so.I would say so.There's there's a lot to say about it.That's very, very good.And I think its actual legacy is the fact that 30 years ago they killed James D. Kirk and they never brought him back. I know, isn't that crazy?
Yeah, they held on to that.You know, they killed Picard, brought him back as a robot or as an android.They obviously resurrected Spock immediately.They resurrected Data in Picard, but. Kirk has died and stayed dead.
And, you know, it's actually kind of admirable that they held to that.And and that's not, you know, it's very, very unlikely William Shatner will play Kirk again.So that's just how it's going to be.
It's very unlikely.Yeah, this this is his actual end.You know, the other thing I think is the legacy of this movie.And I think this movie kicked off is I think this is the movie that kicked off.We're going to destroy the ship that is on Star Trek.
You know, because I feel like we've seen it multiple times even in the JJ movies and I kind of blame Star Trek Generations for like breaking that seal.But there you go.
Well, Star Trek 3 did blow up the the original Enterprise also.But yeah, it's now it's now a thing.You just expect the ship to get blown up.
Well, John, thank you so much for joining us on this conversation about Star Trek Generations.Please tell our listeners where they can find you online.Do you have any cool stuff coming up?
Um, yeah, actually, I have a as it happens on screen rant on Monday.I'm going to publish a little thing about Star Trek Generations to commemorate the 30th anniversary.
Well, this will this will come out at the time of recording this.We're recording this like a couple of days before it's going to release.So you're perfect timing for this.
Oh, awesome.But yeah, so if you want to read my stuff at ScreenRant at ScreenRant.com slash Star Trek, and I'm back of the head at back of the head on all socials except for X, which I left recently.
But threads and Blue Sky and Instagram, I'm back of the head there.
Awesome.Well, thank you again for joining us, man.
Oh, thank you.This has been really great.You know, Jason, I'm a huge fan of yours going way back to.You don't have to butter me up.
I mean, it's it's like I'm in my own nexus, but I appreciate it.
So, no, this has been a really great, a really great thrill for me.And I love talking Star Trek.I'm so happy to get to talk Star Trek with you and hope we can do it again.
Oh, 100%.And everybody out there, thank you.We're so appreciative for all of you.And you can find Geek History Lesson online on threads at Geek History Lesson.And also, don't forget Patreon.com slash Jonwen, J-A-W-I-N.
We're going to have more with Jon.And now to end out the episode, what have we learned today, everybody?
Well, we've learned that if you're going to make a giant franchise where the two lead characters meet up, it's never going to feel complete unless you have them climbing around a bunch of rocks and ropes.
I mean, just that's the perfect action climax if you ever can. Thank you so much for listening to today's Geekester lesson.I'm Jason Inman and class is now dismissed.
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