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This brand was always just meant to be like a side hustle.It was never meant to be what it is today.
It was just meant to be this really cool product that we'd come up with that we thought everybody would want and everybody would need in their routine, and that was all it was meant to be.
And I had this image sent to me in my DMs, and some girl had completely photoshopped her face onto my body.I think that was my first experience of seeing catfishing.
Hello there guys, and welcome to another episode of The Break Podcast.I'm here with the amazing Jess Hunt, who is a model, lifestyle influencer, and a founder of one of the most amazing Instagrammable brands that is out there.
And I wanted to have her on to share her entire story and to find out more about her journey to success, because I've seen the growth that you, your brand, your company, has done over the last three years.
And I feel like there's so many learnings that so many girls who would watch this would get from.So it is a pleasure to have you on, Jess.
Thank you so much for having me.I feel like I just want to say as well, this has been a podcast I've looked up to from the very beginning.So having a full circle moment right now.So I'm very excited.
appreciate it and we've we've known each other for a while I've seen you on different campaigns and I feel like the influencer industry in the UK so small and there's a great way to kind of connect with people but you know people's journeys changes a lot over time and I think firstly when I encountered you was when you were the model the
the PLT model, right?Let's just take it back to that.And you've grown from there.I'd like to take it back a bit and just find out a bit more about your upbringing and where you came from and then how you got into the world of modeling as a star.
Absolutely.So I feel like I was always a very creative person.And then growing up, I feel like I was that kind of person that actually didn't really know what they wanted to do.So for a really long time, I was just unsure.
I ended up not going to like uni or anything like that.I did study a little for A-levels in fashion, which I really enjoyed.And then I think I just got to the point where I was like, I just want to go out and work.
Like I'm 16, so I've got a part time job. And then later on, a couple of years later, I ended up getting a business and admin apprenticeship in the NHS.So I used to work in the NHS as a personal assistant.
So I used to assist some commissioners on GPs, children's and mental health.And that was just like a really interesting time for me.
I feel like that probably did fuel like the crazy OCD planner that I am today, just because I used to love organizing people's diaries and different things like that. That's sort of where I started there.
How long did you do that for?
So I must've been there for, I went when I was 18 and I left when I was 20, so two years.Wow, okay.Yeah, yeah, I loved it.It was really, really good, really rewarding.Learned a lot for sure.
And then from there, I think I would just, my Instagram had sort of started at this point and it was more a place where I would just take some pictures in outfits that I loved, like I even remember going into
top shop and seeing like this play suit that I loved and I bought it.I literally even wore it on a night out.I got my friends to take some pictures and then I returned it the next day because I was like, I cannot afford this right now in my life.
Yeah.That's the reality though.I think sometimes of the influence of the game is that we can't afford everything.I mean, now we can, but I know, but then there's also things it's like,
can i really justify that much money on like one piece of clothing to this day you know so it's like there's levels to it but yeah i just remember i had such a big passion for clothing and as you said like beauty and lifestyle and i would just literally just post that because i enjoyed it um and then my instagram started to grow over time and i believe one of the first ever brands that reached out to me was i
I can't remember which brand it was.I want to say maybe her Polly.They reached out and just sort of said like, we'd love to give you some clothes for free.Like, would you be interested?And I just didn't even know that was a thing at that point.
I didn't know that you could get given.What year was that, would you say?Oh my gosh.I'm not actually too sure.I would be able to look on my phone.Five years ago?Yeah, definitely five, six years ago.Yeah, it was a while ago.I must've been 19, 19, 20.
So. How old am I now, 26?Yeah, so I reckon five, six years ago.So this had happened and then I didn't even realise that you could be given clothes for free, so I just thought, free clothes, absolutely yes.
So they sent me some pieces and I remember I shot them and put them on my Instagram and I think back then, I don't know what your thoughts are, but I think back then the more you'd like post and tag brands, the more brands would like get to see you.
And I think Instagram was growing at that point.So the brands were growing and your Instagram was growing as a person.So I think everyone was just like, what's the right words, like pivoting off each other for growth, you know?
Absolutely.Do you think it's still like that now? I think it's very different now, but I think there's still value in the social media platforms for growth, but now it's all dictated by the algorithm.
Instagram decides who it wants to get 100,000 views on a picture for no reason, so it happens now. you were there in the early days in the heyday and you're creating based on like the love that you had for the industry you're in right?
Absolutely yeah and then I guess my following just started to grow over time and then there was one pivotal moment I can think of
um i remember i just got an email from the creative director of plt at that time saying had you ever modeled before and i was like no like what what do you need and she just sort of said could you send me a video of yourself and oh my god i actually found the video the other day it's hilarious i'm in my kitchen no i'm gonna show you afterwards i don't think i can show you guys i can show you i'm in my kitchen i got my mom to film it
and I'm literally in this bikini and I just I'm so stiff and I just like walked walk forward do a turn and walk back again and I don't know how the creative director appeals he was like yeah great come in but she did so I was like oh my god this is crazy um so this was happening and at the exact same time
I had this crazy thing happen so I'd been sent something on Instagram by a private account of me, I was wearing this really gorgeous green dress, I posted on my Instagram again like I was going out with my friends, I just wanted to take an outfit picture and I had this image sent to me in my DMs and some girl had completely photoshopped, I need to show you,
well photoshopped her face onto my body no but to the point that it didn't even look like my picture like i've never seen photoshop like it it was the skin color had changed like everything just blended so seamlessly i'll show you in a minute it's actually wild
Anyways this is when my following was, I'd just started so I didn't have like a massive following and I remember seeing it and thinking it was so funny so I shared it on my Twitter at that time I believe, I put it on Twitter and I just followed like my friends on Twitter and they followed me like that wasn't really anywhere that I'd post anything other than just general things my friends
And I remember waking up one day and my phone was just pinging and pinging and pinging.I think I'd tweeted it a few days before being like, oh my gosh, guys, look how funny this is.That's like my kitchen, my body, but that's not my face.
I can't believe it because I thought it was just crazy. I think it was my first sort of experience of seeing like catfishing, I guess.And then, yeah, my phone was just going crazy the few days later and I looked and it was just starting to go viral.
So it had been retweeted loads, like people were like commenting back, just saying how funny it was.
And then I actually remember being at home and my mom had the radio on and I think we were listening to Capitol and they'd said something like, have you guys seen this gal on Instagram that she's been catfished?Her name's like Jess Hunt.
And I was like, Oh my God, here we go.So I think from that moment, I remember being really, really overwhelmed at that time.So I just thought, cause obviously with going viral, I guess.It's very scary.It is.
I think I have a better understanding, not that I go viral, but I have a better understanding of how to deal with something like that now compared to just starting Instagram, not really having a big following, not really being exposed to other people's opinions, I guess.
And obviously that does come, when that happens.So that was a bit much, but at the same time, it was great because it probably got me out there to a lot of other people, especially at that time when I was growing.
And I think my following grew maybe like 30,000 in the space of a week.Like it was just, so I mean, I'll take it.And that's a big deal back then to go over 30,000 from a viral moment.Yeah, absolutely.
So that helped massively. Quick question, who was the girl who catfished you and did she have a profile and what happened to her?
Yes, I found her and it was an OnlyFans account.
So were you able to find the girl who catfished you?
Yes, so obviously as this was all going viral, I believe maybe she messaged me, I can't remember because obviously I didn't expect it to go viral.She probably, well she told me she didn't photoshop it, maybe someone else did but I'm not sure.
She actually had like an OnlyFans account and she had like a few more photos that were photoshopped.Not all me, that was the only one of me and then some others were other people I guess.That was your body?
Yeah exactly, other people's bodies as well right.Wow. So yeah, that had happened, but obviously I did feel bad in a way because I didn't, well, I didn't expect it to go viral and two, she obviously dealt with it as well.
So it was like the two of us going through it at that point, but yeah, crazy moment.
Yeah, I mean, that's what happens in this space then when you put yourself out there, you're at risk of like stuff, you know, happening and it is what it is.You kind of have to charge it to the game.So I want to take it back.
So when you grew up or like, am I allowed to talk about your family?
Absolutely.I think I'm very, very fortunate in my upbringing.I'm so, so close to my family and to be honest with you, my upbringing was just so lovely.I wouldn't change a thing.It was amazing.I'm really, really fortunate.
Even my mum and dad, like I said to you before, I just didn't know what to do growing up.I knew I wanted to earn money.I knew that.I knew I was creative, but I just had no
understanding of where I saw myself and I think my mum and dad were just and my whole family were just so supportive and they were just basically sort of said to me like just do whatever makes you happy like do whatever you want to do so I think that definitely took the pressure off me in a way of just kind of just trying different jobs at the NHS.
I used to work as a retail assistant as well and I just went with what I wanted to do at that time.So yeah, I feel like I've always had their support.
Yeah.So you had that, you know, family background and almost like a bit of a, I'm going to call it a cushion maybe.Yeah, absolutely.That meant that you could take a, like a leap of faith and not do the traditional path.
You know, you would have probably seen like your friends and whatever, go off to university and do the path that looks like the thing you're meant to do.
Was there any part of you that felt a little concerned, like, well, I'm not doing what they're doing or even a feeling of falling behind?
Yeah definitely and I think it's almost that thing as well of feeling like you're missing out just because I think all my friends were like going to uni and like going out on nights out because that's part of the uni thing isn't it like having that experience as well and I was just thinking oh I can't go out with them because I've actually got work tomorrow and so yes in that respect but and also to what you said as well of feeling like I'm not too sure if I'm doing the right thing by not going but then as I said my parents were always so supportive and I think I just had the mindset of like
soon as I know what I want to do I will go to uni like whether it's later in life because I completely understand if you as a person want to go to uni and you don't know what you want to do but also there's that thing of like
I don't know, this is a bit controversial, but I don't think you need to go.I don't think you need to go.
Unless you want to be like a lawyer, unless you want to be a doctor and massively, or whatever your chosen profession that you are going to do, absolutely you need to go to uni because you need to learn and do it the correct way.
Because obviously there's certain qualifications and criterias and this and that.
I think a lot of people do get trapped, and I think that's what I was conscious of, of that pressure of thinking, oh my gosh, I need to go to uni, because everyone else goes to uni after school.And no, you don't.
If it doesn't feel right for you in that moment, don't do it.There's so many, especially now we're really lucky, there's so many different ways you can go rather than university.Obviously, it's great if you want to do that.
But for example, I was able to do a business and admin apprenticeship, and I don't know if that helped me. like loads, but it also probably just gave me a lot of like life skills and skills in a workplace.
So- 100% because I've seen people, I've had people work for me who've gone to Oxford and they don't have any common sense.Well, there you go.So the reality is that- You've just said it.
No diss to Oxford, but actually university doesn't necessarily make people more smarter than some- I agree.Or smarter than someone who hasn't gone to university.
I agree and I think it's even now, and you'll have it,
like being a founder when it comes to like growing your brands and growing your team it sounds terrible but when I put out like a job like a job of job vacancy sorry obviously I'd love to see everyone's qualifications I'd love to see it but for me it's based on
your values for one, because I've realized that as the team's grown, like it's all about having people who have got, who see the same vision as you, have similar values to you, or the important ones anyway, like a non-negotiables.
And I guess just, yeah, I think it's not even about, if you've got qualifications all the way up to here, I care more about the person and whether they're going to be right in the team and even have the experience to do the job, it doesn't.
Exactly.So that's what I look for now as well.And the only thing I do say I love about university, especially if you've come from like an insular background, is the opportunity to network, connect and build relationships and friendships.
But in the world of social media, you can reach out to someone who you feel like you want to be your friend and build from there.So that's a question for another day, is the university worth it anymore?
So taking it back, so you got the creative director at PLT reached out to you, you sent your video over and from there, I feel like you became that it girl for that brand.
Oh, thank you.I mean, it was such a good time working at PLT.I'd never modelled before and I felt like I was just thrown into the deep end.And I'm actually just really lucky that they were such an amazing team.
And yeah, honestly, they're actually just some of my best days when I think back to it, like the team that was there and we'd have so much fun, like because essentially we were just shooting about 70 outfits a day, like it's hard work shooting that many outfits.
Like it's a long day.So as long as you're there with like good people and it's a good vibe, it just Yeah, it just made it so much more fun.
So yeah, I was there for quite a few years and then by the time I'd left PLT, I was just very fortunate that they did believe in me so much.I was able to have my own collection with them, which was one of the last things that I did.
at PLT, which was incredible.So yeah, I absolutely loved my time there.It was so much fun.
For me, it feels like you've kind of gone with the flow of what feels right to you.It's not like you've been specifically like, I must model, I must do this, I must start a brand.You more or less was just like, opportunity came and you went with it.
absolutely and I hate to be that person of like well it just happened because there's an element of that I do think one of the things I've always been really big on and probably didn't realize until later in my life that I was doing it and it was like a form of manifestation I guess is I used to literally think about all these things that I wanted like I just think about them and daydream about them
and maybe not so specific but I'd love to do shoots even to this day with my own brand being on a shoot day I'm alive like I'm a Christiana like I'm chaos I love it so much like it's just one of my passions but yeah I think I always
daydreamed and thought about all these things I wanted and maybe that plays into how these things happened.
But then even, for example, like the PLT thing and then the catfishing thing that blew me up even more, like helped my platform grow and then I now have my brand.But I met my business partner through my journey of working with that brand and also
On my Instagram, so that's brought me to where I am today.So as you said, I do think all these opportunities do come about being in the right place at the right time.Yeah.
But then it's also that element, I guess, of like believing that you can do it and wanting it as well.
And also leaning into those opportunities.
And taking it back from how I know you, I know you're not the most extroverted, you know, loud person and, you know, from the outside it may not look like you're like super like go-getter extreme, you're more of an introvert.
How do you navigate kind of the kind of introverted tendencies with still pushing forward for dreams and ideas and things that you wanna do and having confidence in yourself?
Absolutely, I think this has only been something that I've really worked on a lot the past couple years really.I think for a long time I'd be like, oh my god why have I just done a day's shoot and I'm exhausted?
Like why have I just like been to an event and now I need to like hide away for a day?It sounds dramatic but I was always annoyed at myself like Jess like why can't you just like because I'm either one extreme or the other kind of thing.
So I think now I've got a really good understanding of myself, for example, even the team have got such a good understanding of how I work.So it's like, we did a campaign shoot all last week.It was, well, four days in total.
And I'm on, like, I'm literally on, I'm there, like, I make sure the energy is high, like, it's a good time for the team, like, make sure it's a great week.And then after that, everybody knows, everybody speak to me.
Everyone leave me alone, no one speak to me.
No but everyone has like so much respect for me in that sense but I think it helps especially with like diary management if I know I've got like a really busy day I'll make sure the day after I've got the morning to myself just to decompress or the afternoon to myself to
Do you know what I mean?I think it's about a hundred percent.You're going to get the best of me.Now I understand myself for doing these things.
So I think a lot of people don't necessarily understand themselves enough and they try to push themselves and push themselves.Which I always did as well.To be successful.
But actually you're better off working with your natural rhythm, your natural personality time to actually get the best out of yourself.And I think that people think because they're introverted or they're not the most
the loudest person in the room that they can't be successful, but your story of someone who isn't as say dramatic as I am, but is doing what you do and doing it well.Yeah, thank you.I appreciate that.Love that.So what does your day to day look like?
I want to know a day in the life of like brand founder, influencer extraordinaire.
Thank you.I feel like every day is different, which I think that's one of the things I love so much about my role, because everyone sort of says like, what is your role?
Refi especially, and I feel like I don't even, obviously it's like the creative side, obviously I am the founder, but I guess I just say things like, anything the customer sees, I want to see.
So that could be anywhere from what we're doing with retail, or that could be with anything that we're doing on our own website, or the emails that were sent down that day, or the influencers that we're working with, or even the campaigns we're going to shoot, or the new products we're going to bring out.
So it literally covers a multitude of things.And I think that's why I love it so much, because every single day is different. But I guess like an average day for me, I try and always start my day as the same as possible.
I think one of the things as we were speaking about before with being maybe more introverted or understanding just myself better, I try to prioritise myself more in my day and
something that has worked in my routine is just taking a morning for myself.
So not hours and hours, just like an hour, like an hour in the morning, like try and move my body in some way, try and journal, like write down any of my thoughts, manifestations, and then just have a piece, like a bit of quiet before my day starts because otherwise you wake up and then you're answering to everybody else all day, which I know is part of the job and I love it, but it's just like that one little bit is the one thing for me each day.
um yeah as i said my day can be very different day to day but i guess like as i said i could be working on a shoot for a fire campaign or i could be even working on the planning for all of these amazing things we're doing so that takes up as you all know like people will see the gorgeous campaign but yeah
there'll be weeks and weeks of planning that's just gone into that one day shoot.So it's, and then what the, say like 20 pictures that come from that, it's just, it's crazy.So yeah, a lot of the planning side of it.
And then again, just kind of working on anything the customer's gonna see.And then a big thing for me as well is like the content creation side.
So I do feel like I've taken a bit more of a step back in terms of shooting so much content for Refy and myself. I kind of now just shoot as and when I have time, but also as and when I feel inspired as well.You'll probably know this.
There's times where you're like, I'm not feeling it.So you just need to feel in the right head space to want to do those sorts of things.So yeah, it kind of changes day to day, as I said, and then I try my best to have a nighttime routine before bed.
like you said understanding yourself sometimes I thrive in the evenings like it's it's a weird one so it's just picking and choosing I guess but I'm working out what works for you yeah I think sometimes people can look from the outside and think of how glamorous it is
influencer, you know, gorgeous, traveling all around the world.But in reality, would you say that you're at home in your sweats on your laptop, like huddled over?If you could see me, I'm disgusted.
No, honestly, like even today, my back hurts because I think I was just all day like crouched over on my laptop, just all day long.And yeah, if you could see me, I think I've got my hair like clipped onto the top of my head.
And I think that's one of the things.
I was going to speak to you about as well because I don't know if you're the same but I think people maybe as you said like look at like how glamorous Refi is and different things like that and you see the gorgeous campaign shoot and they just don't even know that I've been on the phone all morning sorting this next shoot that we're doing in two weeks but I'm also getting ready to come here and it's isn't obviously this is glamorous this is lovely but it's like yeah I love this role.
but it's just, there's so many sides of it that people don't see.And I'm sure you can relate to that as well.
A hundred percent.I think business and being an influencer looks glamorous from the outside, but people don't know what's going on behind the scenes.
And someone made this comment to me about like business in general, majority of it is actually firefighting.
it's just problems and you just solving the problems with a smile and being like it's fine absolutely making it happen and things changing this is it and I feel like my whatsapp because we use whatsapp as a team and yeah yeah exactly which is great but I just know as soon as I'm gonna look at this it's like right let's just fix every single not not that it comes to me always but it's like right we've just got to figure a few things out yeah I mean which is a great
thing but I think I love that because part of me I do get excited about like just working on things and problem-solving but then it's also that thing of we're getting to the point now as the brand's growing like I want to be a big brand with like incredible legacy and it's like I need to try and get out that day-to-day of just like as you said firefighting and yeah be able to look forward but it's hard isn't it to find the balance of... But it's your baby.
And like letting go of certain things as well, I guess.Exactly.So we haven't actually talked about your brand and I can be like, I know your brand.I've seen it everywhere.My team love it.Girls love it.
But let's take it back to how this actually ended up happening.Because I think this is a story of relationship, connection and your side hustle basically going wild.What happened and how did this, you know, magic occur?
Yeah so I think I was always, I was definitely always into beauty growing up and it was always a massive passion of mine and I think even if you look back at my makeup style it's not changed dramatically.
I feel like I was never like a makeup artist as such, like I was never really amazing at doing crazy makeup looks but I just think I was, I always think of myself as the refi customer.I always just think like
I want to have gorgeous makeup but I still want to look like me and I also want it to take me no more than 20 minutes.
So I think that was the brief basically and I knew that there was, I guess, in my opinion, a gap in the market for something like that and a brand that everybody could use really, really easily.I also was really well known for having big eyebrows.
I was.I feel like I've tamed down a little bit now, but yeah, I always had really, I naturally had really big eyebrows.So it was just something that I embraced and I love my eyebrows and I would use, well, before I started Refire I was using
two different gels and no yeah two different gels and two to three brushes i ended up using a third brush come the very end just to get my brows yeah to look how they looked and i'd still be topping out throughout the day which was fine because that's just what i was doing at that time there was nothing out there that would just hold it all day
And at this point, I knew that there was definitely a gap in the market for this amazing like brow gel, I guess, that would hold your brows in place all day.And I did start looking at different factories and different suppliers.
But to be honest with you, I don't thrive in that.That is not my thing.I'm not good at that.I don't know enough about that. I was looking around, I wasn't really getting anywhere.And then I had a bit of a weird situation.
So my business partner now, Jenna, we'd met a while ago on, well, we'd spoke on an email quite a few times because she originally had another brand called Shrine, which did all the face jewels, if you remember.
So she had that brand and we knew each other through that.She would gift me and I'd worked on like a few looks for her like way back in the day.
And we were actually on a shoot one day for another brand and I was doing my own eyebrows just because I would always do my own eyebrows on shoots because I knew how I wanted them to look and she was in the shoot with me and she just sort of said like, what are you doing with your brows?
Like can you explain this to me?She was watching me do them. And I just told her why I use the two different gels and why I use the brushes and what each part was for.And she was like, wow, that's amazing.
And then we ended up going for lunch that day together.And then I just sort of said to her, wouldn't it be so cool if we could have a brow product that held it all day?And she was like, yes, I need one as well.It doesn't work.
What I'm using doesn't do what I want it to do.And then on Jenna's iPhone, literally in that green pen on WhatsApp, we drew up
what this brow sculpt, what was now our brow sculpt, would look like, incorporating all the brush elements and I guess how it would all come together as one component.
And this had never been done before or made before, so we were like, oh yeah, that would be so cool.And then I just left it, went back to the shoot, did the day's shoot.Me and Jenna didn't speak for quite a while.
And then she'd sent me an email, I'd say a few weeks later, and she'd sort of said, I have a surprise for you.
So I took this back to our product developer here at Shrine, and we got in touch with one of our factories and they think that they might be able to create this product.So I was just like, great.Yeah, sure.Absolutely.Like, I don't think I understood
Well, I know I spoke to you in the early days.I don't think I understood starting a business and creating a product from scratch.So I was like, yeah, yeah, go on.Yeah, cool.Exactly.So it was just, it kind of just started out of nowhere.
We obviously went off and started to sample this product.And because this product was like a wild first, we had to, I was very fortunate.I had Jenna and she already had a relationship with this lab.
to agree to make us our component because I'm sure as you'll know like to create something from scratch yeah create something from scratch and especially being like a brand say it was me that went there on my own like why would they put all this money and time into me who's never done anything or had a relationship with them it's a big risk for them as well exactly yeah so
very fortunate they were on our side and up for creating this new product so we honestly went through at this point around 100-200 samples of the brow sculpt before we got anywhere near a final sample like yeah at one point i just remember thinking we're not going to do this like it's just not right like it's not going to be a thing
So it went on and on.And then eventually when we did finally get that sample, we were just screaming like we could not believe that it would work because it was just, to be honest with you, it was the formula itself.
Cause as you, if you know the product, the formula is white.When you apply it dries clear eventually once you brush it through and getting that right.
So it looked good on everyone's brows, but also getting the hold for all day long was just, yeah, it was hard. So we got there in the end, and then we had, of course, this amazing product.And then we had to be like, right, so what do we need now?
Like, do we bring this out?Like, do we just use it?
like what do you want to do so i was like yeah let's do it like let's start a brand me and jenna decided and then honestly if you just see the initial branding ideas compared to how it looks now like we literally had packaging we had about so many different names it was called like redefy i like like define all these different words and the packaging honestly was like
Nude, pink, blue, it had like my face on it, it had eyes on it.Honestly, if you saw it, you'd be like, that is not the Rafai that we know today.It looks miles away from what it was.And yeah, we were going to launch this product.
We also created a pomade, which was part of my brow routine and an amazing pencil, which again was part of my brow routine.
Those were a little bit more straightforward just because it had been done before and it was pretty easy to get a mold for that.So we had all these products ready to go and we were due to launch, I believe, the May of 2020.
But obviously, as we all know, that was when COVID hit.Pandemic.Exactly.The world had other plans.
So obviously it was a terrible time, but I do believe that was a good thing for us as a brand because I think it really made myself and Jenna and the team look at
the brand that we'd created and we're about to launch with and be like, do we love this though?And the answer was no.So we were like, we love the product, but the brand in itself.And we were like, no, we don't love this.
And I think that's what made me realize just how important branding is to a brand's identity and all of that.So we literally went back to the drawing boards and Refi was reborn, I guess, into the brand that you now see today.
And then we launched that in the November of 2020.So
So you spent another 10 months after it was ready to be like, no, I want to work on the branding and the imagery.
Yeah.I just felt like it really needed that.I think as well, even from the day that we launched, this brand was always just meant to be like a side hustle.It was never meant to be what it is today.
It was just meant to be this really cool product that we'd come up with that we thought everybody would want and everybody would need in their routine.And that was all it was meant to be.
So I'm really grateful now that I did completely, like, well, we completely changed up the brand and just because I think the brand itself stands, imagine if they had my face on it.
It's just not the same, like, as we were just having a conversation before we started and I love the fact now that people just know Re5, 4, Re5, like they don't even know it's got anything to do with me.
And that for me is the dream, the goal, yeah, so really fortunate.
So there's a few things I have to like, pull out from, no, I love it, that have to pull out from the story and your journey.So number one is you use an asset that you had, which is your eyebrows, right?
Which you had a problem, not that you had a problem, but you were finding a solution for something, right?You were like, I just need something that works for my eyebrows.And off the back of that, you were able to build a product idea.
You weren't necessarily thinking about it as a business, but someone came to you. How did you kind of build that relationship with her?
Yeah, so I'm gonna be honest with you.I already knew Jenna, but I knew her more on like an industry level.Like, you know what it's like when you just meet people and you're like, oh, see them every now and then, like, hi, how are you?
Like, it was just, obviously she's lovely, like, had really good vibe from her, but just... never thought we'd be in the literal marriage that we are now.It's honestly crazy.
So yeah, and even when it came to the point of us starting the brand, obviously you've got to go through the whole lawyer thing and sign a contract together to be like, you earn this much, I earn this much, we're going to do this together and make sure everyone's clear on how it'll work.
Oh my gosh, even if you look back up, the contract that we have, I looked at it, well, maybe like last year, and it says like, Jess does one YouTube video a week, Jess does one post a week, and that was what was like required of me.
That's what I thought I was gonna be.
That's what you thought was going to be the brand.Absolutely insane.
And now it's, yeah, obviously completely, completely different.But yeah, so it was, I guess, a little bit of a risk in terms of starting a brand with someone that I didn't have a super, I didn't know her as well as I do now, obviously.Yeah.
But at the same time, I'm just very grateful.I say it all the time.I'm just so grateful I got Jenna as a business partner because as I said, she's like, we're like married.It's a different kind of relationship.
And I guess, I don't know what your thoughts are, but maybe in hindsight, it's really nice that we weren't friends, like friendly friends, and we weren't super close.
Cause I almost think we still were very, very close now, but we just have that constant level of respect for each other.
I think that's a valuable thing.Sometimes they say, don't start a business with your friends because the relationship can get a bit techie.
I should say that, but also I think there's a level of professionalism and experience that she had that you were able to put your trust in her.
Definitely.And I think exactly what I was just saying before, obviously, yeah, I know how to take a nice picture.I know how to like make a product look, well put a product on and like show it to people, like create content.
which she probably didn't know, but then I didn't know how to be a CEO of a business.I didn't know how to manage a team.I didn't know how to find labs that would even want to work with us.So I feel like that's why it works so well.
Like Jenna's got her strength.I've got my strengths and it's always worked well because I don't know better than she does.And she doesn't know better than I do.So it's like, you do your thing.I'll do my thing.
And I think that's why the brand probably has done so well just because she's incredible at what she does and I feel like I know what I do, so.
Amazing.Yeah.And when it came to initial investment, it was more or less time, mental energy, but also there would have been some finance you had to put up front.Were you scared about maybe making your first deposit into your side hustle idea?
Absolutely.Myself and Jenna funded everything ourselves from the very beginning.I think we were in a very fortunate position that we were both able to do that as well.To this day, it's still just me and Jenna that have Refi.
yeah I guess I remember as I said before we had to create this new mold for the brow sculpt that hadn't been done before and obviously for the factory to want to do that it costs a lot of money like it costs and you need to do like a big order as well like a big quantity so to make it worth that while so I was like right okay so Jenna was like right so it's going to be this amount of money for us to do this um and I just remember her saying like and this is the quantity that we need to make and I remember she told me how many
brow sculpts we've been making for this amount of money.I was like, oh my God, like, how are we going to sell all of these products?Yeah, like, bear in mind, the brand's not even launched.Like, no one even knows about it.So I'm like, right, OK.
And I just remember her saying, like, don't worry.So what we can do is, like, it's got a shelf life of this much time.I think if I speak to this retailer, we can get this much to there.I reckon worst case is we can just, like, do, like, bundles.
We can, like, knock it down.I remember thinking, oh, great, yeah.And honestly, the amount of quantity that we bought, was meant to last us six months, but it sold out in six weeks.Wow.Yeah.
So that was like a big pivotal moment for myself and the brand, because I think we just thought, oh my gosh, like, here we go.
This is about to be something.Yeah.And just, this is a technical question.Obviously you sold out of your order super fast.You would have, it would have taken another three months for a next production run.
Well, this was it.So then we were out of stock from the, end of November and it was December.And then we went back in stock end of January, first week of Feb.
So it was all that time of being out of stock, which was obviously it's a great thing because at least it went well, but also it's that thing of like, we've just created a brand.
We only have like at this point three SKUs, like that is people working for us now.Like this is a startup brand.We need to kind of make our investment back as well.
And we were out of stock for three months, so we weren't really selling anything for three months.
So that was pretty intense, but then I'm just so grateful that people did purchase when we did come back in stock, because obviously there's always that worry of being like, oh, I think, especially with like a social media brand and it essentially just being a side hustle, like has the hype gone now?
Do you know what I mean?But I was very fortunate that it didn't and it came good.
How do you deal with the fears that come with now being an owner of something and employing people and also the fact that you feel like it's based on your image and how you're perceived in the public eye?
Yeah massively I think that is a worry for anybody who's in this position isn't it it's just I think I'm very fortunate that I have Jenna and I keep talking about Jenna, but she's so important to me in this business.
And the fact that I'm never alone in this.So like, for example, I always have someone to like talk, talk things over with like a soundboard always and vice versa.But then I do agree.
Like, I think as the brand has grown, like when we started, it was literally myself, Jenna and two other people.
building this brand, shooting everything, packaging orders, getting PR boxes ready to send out, like the four of us just working on everything to now there's a team of 60.So it's just grown massively.
And obviously with that definitely becomes a lot of pressure because now it's not just like, oh, hopefully we get our investment back and hopefully this brand works.Like there's people with literal lives who care so much about Refy and put
so much of their time in to refi, oh that would be the worst thing ever if anything ever happened and I would just make sure it never would, do you know what I mean?Of course, yeah.
Because they're so important to me and they're so important to the business so yeah, I can, it definitely would be a concern but I think I'm just very fortunate in the fact that I also feel like I don't really put myself in any places where
I'd be in those situations.I feel like I just very clear on who I am, very clear on who I am as a brand.I feel like I'm just, I hope on social media, I'm a place that people can come to for inspiration and just lighthearted vibes.
I'm never ever going to be the heavy person or an oversharer.
And actually that's a really important point to discuss because one thing I refer to is like the it girl.And when I was on, I'm on Pinterest and your face just always came up, your outfits always came up.
Like, I think it may be some of the aesthetics I was looking for.And it's like, there's Jess again, there's Jess again.
How do you deal with like, I mean that pressure around your, you as a brand and as a face and as someone who people are looking up to?
yeah i get that i think i have got to a space now where i'm a lot better with dealing with that i think i used to put i don't know what your thoughts are on this but i think i used to put a lot of it sounds very dramatic but like self-worth even on the on the thing of like
how well did a picture do or like how well did that piece of content do just because when you like you're Patricia Bright like Patricia Bright is a brand whatever you post is essentially you but also it's your brand so it's like it's kind of hard I don't know if you agree.
I still deal with this now.
that battle of like, oh my God, am I not good enough anymore?
No, same, because it is you as a person.And it's hard to like, I think I almost then put like Jess as the person, as, what's the right words here?
As someone like, I am the business, which is obviously true, but then it's like, I just rely on me, I just rely on how I look, I just rely on if that content did well, I just rely on like, whether the lighting looks good of me and that, and it's just things that I probably don't need to be so stressed about.
No I understand that.It sounds like you've been on a journey of understanding or finding your self-worth outside of the Instagram likes and engagements and even being a brand owner.
I think it's just sounds very deep but just being on like a personal journey I think I really did take some more time like I said to get to know myself personally this past like year and a bit and just figuring out like how I actually work like for example
if I know I'm going to be exhausted after a shoot and it probably will make me feel a bit rubbish the next day then I just need to be able to feel a bit rubbish and like have a minute because I know I'll feel great again afterwards it's all about I remember listening to what Fern Cotton spoke about of just being on that consistent line of like
happiness and just feeling good, you know?So it's not all about the highs and lows.Because I think, as we were saying before, people look at what we do as a job and just think, oh my God, that looks so fun.
Jess set a shoot this week, she's doing this next week.But really, after you've done that, you're like, oh, back down again.I just like being on the consistent, happy.
That's a great place to do it.
I think as well, there's so much pressure to show you're performing, show you're that it girl, you're doing it.
high engagement and that's draining after a while and it's also not real like am I really having a good time or does it look like I'm having a good time for everyone else?
It's so true and it's even like I think I'm really guilty of that and I want to improve on it I'm really bad at posting on my Instagram stories but I love seeing everyone else's I'm so bad just because I feel like if I'm actually having a good time in the moment I don't take pictures and
Whereas if I'm literally in work mode, like I know I'm there to get content to post, my story is going to look great.I'm going to look like I've had the best time.
In reality, I've probably been there with my phone the whole time, just like, I've enjoyed myself, but I wasn't present.So I guess it's hard because when we're at work, obviously we need to have that hat on and be doing that.
I just saw you're on holiday and you look like you had the best time, but it's like- I don't post a lot though as well.I should have done way more.No, but I wanted to be on your holiday.I was like, what is she up to now?
So tell you what it is when I'm away.
I got in at 4 AM.I'm crushed.There's like mascara.It's not cute.See, that's what all the people want to see.
I'm a hot mess.You know, sometimes there's a pressure of like, this is my identity.I don't want people to know how messy I actually am.I'm in the club.
It's scary to be the real you online.It's true.It's true.But I don't think there's any harm.Obviously, I love this whole movement of like showing that the realness and I really do love like showing my day to day and like what I'm actually up to.
But then I do think it's nice as well.Like you said, when you're on your holiday with your family or your friends, if you want to be a drunk mess, Nobody needs to know you're entitled to that, you know, so there's levels to it, right?
So let's pivot to today, right?What are the kind of big priorities you have in your life right now?
Um, so I think big priorities for me would be definitely mental health, um, physical and just like wellness and overall health.Um, refi is a huge priority of mine.It's like something I absolutely love.
Um, my family, my loved ones that they are so, so important to me.Um, and I also think, I don't know if this feeds into the one I said before, but I guess just like taking time for myself as well.And like,
not getting too caught up in just being busy all the time.Don't need to be busy all the time, don't need to be working all the time, which I've learnt now.
So yeah, just taking more time for, like you said, being on holiday, being drunk on holiday, more times like that.
I feel like the more I speak to people, this is the message that I'm hearing over and over again.That kind of morning routine, that space for yourself is essential to actually I think being successful in the first place.
That kind of grind hustle mentality isn't working and it doesn't work for women.I just think that that energy just doesn't work.We have to listen to our bodies.That kind of thing.
And you mentioned a lot about, you felt like you kind of manifested this because you thought a lot about what you wanted.What was that process of saying manifestation?A lot of people say that word.I hate the word manifestation.I find it very cringe.
But I do believe in like where you put your energy, mental energy, where you put your focus on, that's what you're gonna get back.
I agree and like I said to you in the beginning I feel like I didn't know I was manifesting I just think exactly what you said I was just thinking about stuff like that was me just thinking yeah and I guess exactly what you just said like I was bringing that energy to me so what would you call it?
What would you like to call it?
focusing, like I was focused on where I wanted, focusing my energy on where I wanted it to be.
I mean, it's not that manifesting is a bad word, but it feels a little woo-woo when people say that, like, oh, if I think about it and I don't do anything, things are just gonna like fall from the sky, which is absolute nonsense because clearly you put the work in every single day and you opened yourself up to opportunities and networking and produce something to create something off the back of it, right?
absolutely i mean i love obviously if you want to manifest you do you like completely get it i think i now just assume it was manifesting because that's what what's a big word now isn't it like everybody talks about yeah but so true i think i was always just very focused on what i wanted for myself maybe even just like how i saw my life playing out like aside from like every single detail but
also to what you said about putting myself in those right places like making sure I went to if I felt like I should be an event I should go or if I should be speaking to different people than I would and for example like in the very early days of Instagram like putting on an outfit and tagging that brand I paid for it like they might not ever see it but eventually they did see it so yeah just like the two are in parallel I guess.
Of course for sure.Would you consider yourself to be a confident person?
Yes and no.I feel like yes in what I, I guess a lot of people would be like this, yes in what I know, like I could talk to you about Refi all day long, like that literally makes me so, so happy.
But then in things where I do feel out of my comfort zone, I wouldn't feel as confident, but I'm working on it.
Were you confident growing up, like you were self-assured?
Yeah.No, definitely not.Like quite the opposite.I think I was even having this conversation the other day, I feel like I was a person at school, like if someone, the teacher was like, Jess, what do you think?
I'd literally be like, oh my God, don't pick me.Like, I don't wanna speak, you know?So I was, I guess like an introvert, like very quiet growing up.
So the fact that, but I suppose if people looked at my Instagram, they'd probably think, God, like she's so confident.Like she loves doing her thing and I do, but,
Yeah, maybe I am more confident in that because that's what I know, but in certain things, no.
Would you say that time's helped you to kind of build that?
Do you have any advice for anyone who's lacking confidence and thinking about pursuing their dreams or something that they want to do?
I think I just kind of tell myself, for example, as I said before, when I do feel like out of my depth or in something that I'm not super confident in, I just think to myself like, Jess, if you're not scared of it, then you're not improving.
Like you're not getting better.Like you have to scare yourself.Am I scared?Yes.Right.I'm killing, like I'm doing the right thing.Obviously there's levels.If it's something that makes you so physically uncomfortable, don't put yourself through it.
Like we've got one life, it's not that deep.But I think if there's things where you're like, oh, bit nervous, you can do it.You can.
Fear is a great indicator that you're pushing yourself into a new direction.And if you don't have any fears or any challenges, you're not growing.You're just staying still.
Yeah.One of my favorite sentences is feel the fear and do it anyway.There's a book and it's just like, my mantra for like life is just like, I'm scared. Okay, do it.
It's the way.Has there been any big challenges or mistakes that you've made on your journey post your side hustle blowing up that you've learned from?
Big mistakes.Or challenges.Yeah.I think a big challenge for us as a brand, I guess, is that thing of the brand grew so quickly, which I'm so grateful for, and I wouldn't change a thing.But then it also meant that the team needed to grow quickly.
And as I mentioned before, I'm not a manager, I'm not a CEO as such.I know how to make things look good, I know how to create products that I would love and hopefully the audience loves as well, but I don't thrive at those things.
So I think when it came to the team having to grow, having to manage, as we were speaking about before, so many more people who, I guess, rely on the brand and the brand relies on them.It's like a whole different thing.
So that was quite overwhelming to begin with.I think, obviously I'm going to say this, but I'm very, very fortunate that the team are so incredible.Everybody in there motivates me so much and the energy in the office is just incredible.
I'm very fortunate for that, but I think I definitely, I kind of just, I do feel the pressure having that many people in the team.And also with the growth, like obviously things did happen very quickly.
It was about hiring people quickly and also just making sure that the customer didn't feel maybe any of like the niggles or the firefighting that was going on with that growth as well.
So you've learned to like lean into what you're good at doing, but also you had to work with that team as well.
Absolutely, and I think it's as well the thing of, I remember I've been told multiple times, like employ people that are 10 times better than you.
So that's why this brand's so successful because everybody at Refy is 10 times, even more times better at me than me, sorry, at what they do and vice versa.And that is what makes the brand so strong, I think.
Yeah, I agree. And do you know what, this is also a conversation about the people you have around you, like on a personal level and even within your business, like that your network impacts your net worth as they say.
It's so true to like build a strong team and a strong group around you. to actually lift you up and allow you to be a better version of yourself and of course like your brand to do what it's done today because you've got a great team.
We're going to do a never have I ever because I feel like we haven't done this and I want to find out a little bit more about you.So never have I ever worn sweatpants with a shirt during an online meeting.
I mean yes, but I've also, I'll tell you what I was so guilty of in lockdown, it's probably quite bad, I was doing meetings, I literally had like my dressing gown like tied around my waist and then just the arms out, do you know what I mean?
So it was all the way down here, but nobody would know on the top.Oh I still do that now.
I do as well, I don't know why I said lockdown, I think that's when it started but it's just carried on.Never have I ever eaten something terrible just so someone wouldn't feel bad about it.
Dating scenes, have you had bad dates?Where you've done that?
Not so much a bad date, but I feel bad.My boyfriend, he cooked me dinner and it was just, oh, he tried so hard.If you could have seen the kitchen in the background, it was chaos.Like he tried so hard.Yeah.It wasn't nice.But you ate it.
I ate it anyway.Because you love him.Yeah, of course I ate it.
You're a dry suit with no salt or seasoning, but I love you, baby. Oh no.That's cute though, right?
Come on.Never have I ever cut my own hair?Oh yeah, I did it this morning.I chopped these.I literally did my hair and I was like, whoa, they're long.Wow.What do you think?
Fabulous.I wouldn't know.Okay.You never tried that wolf cut trend, did you?Where girls were like, do you not see girls?They're putting their hair up in a top.Is that what it's called?Yeah, ponytail.Flipping it forward and just cutting it.
Absolutely not.Like lumps of their hair.
And then they pull it back and it would just be like chaos.
And they pull it back and it's like choppy.
Surely everyone saw that video.
Some girl had a nice result. but i don't think i saw one nice one never have i ever been attracted to a cartoon character
I don't think so.Oh my gosh.I have.Who?Howl.Who?Howl, his name is Howl.He's a character from a film called Howl's Moving Castle.Oh, I've just seen it.And he's a wizard and I love him.Oh wow, wizard.I've got his t-shirt and everything.
No way.I'll show it to you later.Please do, I need to know who Howl is, wow.
Pretended that I loved a present that I secretly hated.
I must have done that.The thing about me though is I feel like I've got a really bad lying face.Like, I feel like you'll know from my face straight away whether I mean it or not.Do you know what I mean?Yeah, I definitely have.
And probably as a fashion girl, I'm going to ask you this one.Cleaned my room by shoving the mess in the closet.
oh my god so many times i'm even at that point to be fair my apartment's pretty clean but i'm even at that point now where i've gone to like put something away and i've gone into the cupboard i've not even looked and just like put it in do you know what i mean i just don't want to see it yeah if i don't see it it's not there yeah i love it let's talk about fashion actually this is not my list but would you say that you buy a lot of clothing and accessories still
I feel like yes and no.I think I buy things now which are pieces that I hope I will keep for a very long time.I think I'm just a bit more mindful with it now.I only invest in expensive pieces or designer pieces if I think
am I gonna like this in a year's time?And there's even been things that I've seen, I've been like, oh, I love that.And I've let it go a whole season.If I still love it, I'm like, I'll get it now.
Even though it's a season too late, but I just think, I don't know.I'm not very much of like an impulsive buyer really.
That's what I think of you.When I see your feed, I don't see you like flying and following every single trend of every single new piece.You kind of have your thing and you go through your seasons.
I know you're in your white and cream seasons right now. We're in cream season right now.Cream season, which is actually quite...
different to say before being a model and being, you know, there's a lot of fast fashion going on there and maybe you've moved away from it.
Absolutely.I think like maybe that's an age thing as well.I think I was always, I definitely am still into the trends.Like I love certain trends, but only, whereas before I'd probably try everything, which I don't mind that.I'm glad I did that.
But I think now I'm just much more like good basics, a bit more refined, like one nice empire outfit, like one nice staple piece or just that simple. and then accessorising with pieces to elevate, you know?
I love that.Do you think your parents are proud of you right now?
Yes, I definitely do.They do tell me I'm proud.They're proud, sorry, but also my mum and dad are proud, but they have that thing of just not really, they hate me for saying this, just not really like, they're just a bit over it.
Like I'll just be like, no they don't.I'll be like, well we're fine, it's got a billboard in Times Square.They're like, oh brilliant.So what are you having for your dinner?Honestly, they don't care.
That's the best way.And this is a great one.When you were 20, what would you want to have said to yourself then?Yeah, this is a good one.
I feel like I would say to myself to maybe I think we grew up in that era of like, you mentioned it before, like working so hard, like nonstop work, like that is the way to be successful.
I wish I could say to myself, like, have a bit more fun and just everything will be okay.Have more confidence in yourself.Keep focusing on what you want and keep putting yourself out there and just have a little bit more fun.
100% and you're only 26, right? You are still so young, right?You're not an old lady.And I found this with my friends who've been on social media for like a long time and they didn't go to university and stuff like that.
They've been grinding since they're like 17.And I'm like, have a little fun, go out and be silly and actually like learn and explore.Like they're so serious.Like everyone's like a job hustle.I'm like, chill.
This is it.Don't be stupid.No, you're right.And I feel like I'm being a silly girl now, like later in life, which I love for me.But I just think I wish back then I could say to myself, like, you need to be silly now.
Yeah, exactly.You're allowed.You can do both by the way.
Yeah.Yeah.Love that.Well, thank you so much for coming on, Jess.I feel like your story is insane, inspirational, and I love that you understand yourself so well.So where can people find you and your brand, of course?
Thank you so much.So you guys can find me, my Instagram is jesshunt2, and then you can find Refai at Refai Beauty.Thank you so much.Thank you so much for having me.
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