Welcome to Glad We Had This Chat with me, Caroline Hirons.It's your one-stop shop for all things skincare, beauty, and beyond.My guest this week is podcasting royalty, We Bow Down.
Wearing many hats, she is an acclaimed author, actress, exceptional wife and mother, and tackles everything she does with creativity, authenticity, and a beautiful big smile.It's Giovanna Fletcher. Thanks for joining me, G. Welcome.How are you?
I'm good.How are you?I'm tired, stressed.I don't know how you do it.We are with podcast royalty, I have to say.And I we're near the end of this run.Yes. I'm not going to say I'm tired.I know there are people out there who work very, very hard.
I'm a little bit tired.I mean, it's a lot.And you've been doing it for six years?Seven years?Seven years.
I actually think so.The research is one thing, obviously, and going into podcasts.I feel nervous now, still, before every podcast record.
And I feel like what that does to your body, having the adrenaline running and all those nerves, then sitting in there listening, I think listening is a really hard skill and it requires so much energy.So I think that takes out of you.
When I get into the car or on the train on my way home at the end of every podcast recording, I'm literally just like, But it does take it out of you.But it's amazing.It's amazing what people will trust.
What people will say and how they trust you when there's a microphone in front of them.
What's been your sort of moment where you've gone, oh, wow, I can't believe they've said that or shared that?
I mean, well, you've been on.
I know.You had the biggest impact on my following than out of anything I've ever done, including TV.
Yeah, I gained 10,000 followers in a week.
Even after the, when you did this morning and you did the wipes thing?
I would have followed you straight away after that if I wasn't already.
10,000 followers in a week.No.In a week, gee, it was like, I was just like, my God, there's Engaged and then there's your audience.
It's amazing.I just think, You know, there are places where people talk about themselves, but we don't often talk about our family life.
I think our time is so precious when we're doing things that we don't necessarily, not trust the place that we're doing it, but we've got another agenda.We're there to talk about the things that we're passionate about.
We're there because we've been asked to do something very specific. Talking about family is something that we all love to do, really.But in a safe environment, you just chat and chat and chat.And you don't feel like you have to caveat it all.
You don't have to feel like I'm saying this, but I really love my children.I know you love your children.I know you do.But it's nice also to reflect on your personal experience and how you found it.Yeah.Yeah.I never, I never tire of listening.
And I'm always blown away by what people share, whether it's just, you know, their reaction to certain things that might be out there and quite explosive or simply sharing, not simply, but sharing about the roar and the heartache.
You know, when Amanda Holden came on second series and talks about losing her baby and having to birth her baby, That just kind of made me go, this is so big.
This is such a big thing that we have created this space that people trust and that they can come on and share.
So yeah, I feel like I'm constantly trying to push it so that we include more and more people within the space so that everyone feels represented.Everyone feels that they can relate to an episode.
But at the same time, it's there so that people can come to it, whether they know the name that's on the thing or not.
and listen and relate in some way and understand someone's own personal experience and also understand that someone's own personal experience has no reflection, indication or anything on you.Your experience is your experience.
This is this person's experience.So listen to it, understand if you can, but at least show a bit of compassion and understanding.
Was that your agenda going in?You talked about genders.Was that what you had in mind?What made you think, I just want to do a pod?So I had written the book.
So I've obviously read a lot of books.And I'd written, after quite a few fiction novels, I had gone into nonfiction.And I'd written Happy Mum Had a Baby.And the only reason I had done that was because I'd been asked so often on book tours.
And at the time, when I had Buzz, who's my oldest, I'd read every single baby help book.I felt like I'd read all of them.He came out, he hadn't read a single one, so wouldn't play by their rules.
Not being compliant here, Buzz.
Yes, come on!So it just felt like I was in a constant state of failing. of getting it wrong, of feeling like I wasn't doing what I should be doing.I would say that I was a very maternal person.I'm a very maternal person.
However, when I had my baby, I felt the least maternal ever because I was suddenly like, I should be doing this, I should be doing that, I should be doing that. So when people ask me if I would write that, well, I didn't want to add to that.
I didn't want to add to people kind of feeling like they're less than or getting it wrong.
And then I realized that actually what I could do is just put down my honest thoughts and my experience and not sort of say to the reader at all, this is what you should do.I've done this.This is what you should do.
And I just thought I'd get it all out. I talked about PCOS, I talked about miscarriage, I talked about the overwhelm, about the juggle, about how hard I found it going back to work.
Anything I felt, I wrote down and I thought to myself, I'll edit it out later if I don't want to include it.Then I realised I do want to include it because that's my whole, that's my... That's the whole thing.That's the whole thing.
And then once the book was out, I had a book tour which was Just the most amazing, amazing experience.I think motherhood is a really isolating thing.Writing books is really isolating because you're literally on your own the majority of the time.
I would say I write books as part of it is kind of, I create what I need.So my characters and stuff, there's in Dream a Little Dream, she's got a group of mates that she sees every Wednesday for a pub quiz.
They were my mates while I was writing that.Because when I wasn't writing, I was with my baby.And with your baby, you have a very different life to what you would have had previously.So they were my mates.I wrote what I needed.
But the book, The Happy Mom and Bad Baby, was very different.And going on that book tour and being in that room of people that just were together and It felt like those things weren't being said.
You know, motherhood on Instagram at that point was crisp white sheets, everyone smiling, you know, and eating fruit, basically, you know.It wasn't anything else.
And then getting their body back straight away.
Oh, the snap back, all of that stuff.And I was looking at all of that and going, but this isn't me.So what can I do?How old were you at that point? Oh gosh, well I was 29 when I had Buzz.So the book was incredible, but we all know how it works.
Things have a moment, whether it's a book, or unless it's one of the epics, they have their time.
And I just thought I didn't want that conversation and that feeling of togetherness to just be of that sort of year and then for life to continue and people not to feel the support that I know that I felt and other people felt.
So I was listening to The Guilty Feminist a lot, to Control, Alt, Delete.So I started listening to podcasts and would listen to those weekly. And I just thought, wouldn't it be great if we could do a podcast version of the book?
But that can't be me, because I'd get sick of my own voice.And I don't think anyone would listen to me harp on about my kids or how I'm finding it for weeks on end.So I decided to sort of see if other people would come on.
Emma Willis is a, well actually, I had to persuade people to do a podcast in the first place.It seemed like management, yeah, because podcasts weren't really that big.So I'd said, I've written a book, I'd really love to turn it into a podcast.
Management were like, yeah, yeah, okay.And then six months later, we'd had one of our little meetings that we had where we'd catch up and sort of, is everyone happy?You happy with what we're doing?And I was like, I'm really happy.
I'd love to explore a podcast idea.So yeah, Paul at YMU was just like, leave it with me. And then went to, we've touched base with our now production company, been with us the whole time, PixiU.
And yeah, so we decided on our format, decided to try and create a pilot, which I know that you guys did as well, which was really useful.
However, I decided to message Emma Willis, who's a great friend of mine, who, you know, at that point, seven years ago, I knew that we were both in the thick of it. and I thought she'd be a great guest to come and open up.
I texted her and she didn't reply.
She didn't reply.However, we were out for her birthday a few weeks later, and I was like, Emma, did you get that text that I sent you?And she was like, oh, gee.You know, yes, I struggle.Yes, I feel this.Yes, I feel that.
But I've also got a lovely house, a supportive husband, a supportive mom and dad.That's the point, isn't it?You can have all of that stuff.It doesn't matter who you are or what you have.
Like, what you do or what you have, we can all feel sort of united in that feeling of feeling like we're getting it wrong or that we're struggling.So I managed to basically talk around.And that was basically the start of it.
I then text 10 people, said, would you come on this podcast?This is what it is.And within an hour, those 10 people had messaged back and said, yes, absolutely.
What was the reaction from your followers?
Just, it was brilliant.It just kind of confirmed the fact that it was important and that it was necessary and needed.A year, I think a year after that, I learned that the leading cause of death in new moms within the first year is suicide.
And that just, that then made us just anchor down, get on with it.This message has to be out there. We have to have something that is there for mums and dads that they can turn to.
So many mums stop me now, you know, they'll be pushing the pram and they'll say, thank you.And so many say I was in a dark place or and you just it's really hard not to be hit by that. the reality of that.
And you know, and in not saying that every mother who feels depressed is going to have suicidal thoughts, but the fact that it gets dark, we don't feel like ourselves.
Every part of us is a new, it's not a new word, it was created in the 70s, but it's now coming back, matrescence. which is basically like adolescence, I guess, but it's what a woman goes through when they become a mum.
And every single bit of us is altered in some way.Forever.Forever.And, you know, I think when we were younger, you know, the thought of anyone changing was a bit like, oh, she's changed, she's changed.Yeah, you have.
Because if you don't go through life changing because of the things that happen to you, you're a bit of a plonker.You know, you've got to change, you've got to evolve.And motherhood is obviously one of those things that pits every single part of you.
And intensely. Yes.Your own stories with the three boys, was it par for the course in terms of birth, pregnancy, birth, that kind of thing?And was it the aftermath where you were like, oh my god, I'm so overwhelmed?
Because I feel like with birth, to give context, I feel like it's sort of like we have to champion our horror birth story.Oh, you won't believe what happened to me.And oh my god.
And I do it joking about my second son's size of his head and things that you joke about in that way. What you've done is create something that goes so much deeper that really makes people stop and go, actually I felt that.
I had days where I couldn't.I just thought, I never used to want to go to sleep because I'd have to go through the night and I'd be so exhausted.I think I can't, I can't wake up and feed again.I can't do it. Not for a long period of time, thankfully.
But I still had those feelings of, I'm not going to go to bed, I'm just going to stay awake.I might as well just stay on the sofa because all I'm going to do is this.
Yeah.Or having cracked nipples and knowing you've got to put your baby on your boob.
The best thing, I had a friend who messaged me, my friend Marianne messaged me actually when I just had Buzz.And she said, when you're feeding, and I had no idea what she was talking about to start with, when you're feeding,
Or maybe she related it to her.When I'm feeding, the first 10 seconds I clench my butt, pull my feet into my chair, and then after 10 seconds I can relax.And I was like, what is she talking about?
I absolutely got it.And I don't think little things like that were just not talked about.
I found breastfeeding harder than the childbirth.
Really?Yeah, I'd agree.I love my pregnancies.My births I felt really empowered in.I did hypnobirthing with all three.
No, you don't mean it like that.It's just I go, hold the dream.Oh, no, but I still had an episiotomy first time round and then peed to the, I think I peed to the left for the, until the next burp.
They don't tell you about episiotomy.I had that first time round.You never get a woman who has an episiotomy after number one.Cause you say, if you come near me with scissors again, I will use them on you.
I mean, no one tells you.
No, and at that point, I was just like, yeah, whatever, get him out, that's absolutely fine.And yeah, I mean, off the back of an episiotomy, I literally, every wee I'd go for, would shoot down one leg at the end.I was like, oh, is this me for life?
And actually, it wasn't until I had the second, and then I tore, and the midwife stitched me up, that suddenly I was a bit like, hey, I can pee straight again, who knew?Isn't it bizarre?
The things that people do not tell you, do not talk about.
No.And so my births, actually, I did love.My third one was actually a little bit trickier.My second son, Buddy, had managed to basically had a sweep.So I can't and I felt things happening, but nothing major, just kind of like a light.
gurgle, I want to say, like a period sensation.So we tied up the house because we knew that Tom's mum and dad would have to come over if it was to happen.
And Buddy, just before, literally Tom was stood by the stairs going, right boys, come up, come upstairs now.And Buddy had stood up on the sofa, one foot had slipped and he'd gone head first into a coffee table.
So we then went straight to the hospital and weirdly the smell of the blood on his head and literally I'm talking like it looked like it was a gash.
Did it go white?My eldest did that.Inside it?Yes.Ben did exactly the same, the bees.Split his head open, fell into a doorframe, split his head open and it just went Just like, yeah, yeah.But you're about to have going labour.
But the smell of the blood and the fact that I was, you know, looking at my child with love, fear, yes, but with complete love to try and calm him, just made everything start.So I was like, great. Fantastic.This is good.
So I left him in bed with the, thankfully it wasn't stitched, it was sort of stereo stripped across and they were going to go to Plastics the next day, Royal Holloway, but Tom's mum and dad were going to have to take him because I literally was just like, I am absolutely in labour now.
It just sort of Family life, eh?Yeah, but weirdly, I think that birth was tricksy, because it kind of felt like it was going on for a while, because I was so preoccupied with Buddy.So I was thinking, is he OK?
And then as soon as I was sent a picture of him cycling around the house on his little bike with several pairs of pants on his head, which was his favourite thing to do, I could then relax and birth.
Boys in pants, what is it?
They just love them.They love another bit of underwear.They do.
anywhere, put it anywhere, especially on the head.Elbows, head, it's crazy, right?
So between you and Tom, and your not quiet work lives, and three boys, how do you, and I'm going to do the age old question, because people ask me, but my kids are all grown.I'm like, lovely.
I don't smoke, but you know, metaphorically I'm like, lovely. Three under how old?10, 8, and 5 now.And then you two with your work commitments.Yeah.What is a day like if you're both, or do you have to do like one on, one off?
We do a lot of tag teaming.
I mean, we've got a great support network around us.Tom's mom and dad have been invaluable since Buzz was a baby.So they've been amazing.But we do a lot of tag teaming.We generally won't both be away at the same time. Yeah, it's just a juggle.
I can remember Emma Freud coming on, actually, the podcast.I think it might be second series as well, actually.
And her saying that every month her and Richard sit down, even now, and the kids have grown up and they go through the diary and they just cross things out.That's not going to work.That's not going to work.And I was like, wow.
saying no, saying no to things.You know, I think I'm such a people pleaser.However, I've learned the art of no and kind of thinking at what cost I could do this for you.But what's the cost going to be to me, to my mental health, to my family?
And also things have to go every now and then.You know, I know I should be exercising more.I know I should be getting up and getting out of the house and doing a run.
I don't always get it done and kind of going, well, that's OK, because actually I don't sit down.You get a lot.
Speaking of getting out of the house and going for a run.Yeah.You're not really running, but you do like a trek.I love a trek.I can't relate.I mean, you are a legend.I'm just like, what are you climbing now?What are you doing now?And did it?
Were you doing it before Copperfield?
So I had over the years.So I think at 18, I went to Namibia and we did like a charity.It was like a gap It sounded like Gap Challenge, but it spent two weeks in an orphanage doing little jobs, which was amazing.
And then went hiking down the Fisher River Canyon, which was incredible.Then years later, I did Machu Picchu with my sister.But it was one of those things that I always love walking.
If I need to sort of calm myself or if I'm nervous, going for a walk, even if it's the same field over and over again, it's really beneficial.
I did a show, one of my first, my first ever West End role actually, I was understudying Andrea Rysebrough in Ivanov opposite Kenneth Branagh, so I was the understudy.
And to calm myself, even though my main role, when I wasn't on as Sasha, I would literally have to go on and offer out celery to the other castmates and just literally stand there and react.I had so much anxiety around doing that tiny role.
So walking has always been that way of kind of, expelling the energy, I guess.So I've loved it.Always had trekking boots.And then I met Chris, the founder of Copperfield, about nine years ago.And I learned about the treks.
And I was just like, I really want to do those.I'd love to do one of those for you. And at that point, it was headed up by Fabulous magazine.So it was all about whether Fabulous wanted you in their magazine.
And it took a couple of years for them to go, OK, she can come and be a captain.Which is fine.And I went along.Well, actually, before that, we had the most amount of applicants ever apply, because I probably shouted about it from the off.
We fundraised double the amount that they'd ever fundraised.
Greg Rutherford was meant to be coming with me, but unfortunately he had some issues with his ankles three weeks before, so I phoned my brother and was like, do you fancy being another captain?And he jumped at the chance.Yeah, the whole thing.
So I always say there's different types of fun, and I know this is out there. Um, and a lot of people might know about it, but I say, well, there was three types.There's not now four types.Type one fun is you're living your best life in the moment.
And this isn't, isn't this great.This is the best ever.Type two fun is not so fun at the moment, but in reflection, oh my God, that was amazing.Type three fun is no fun, just no fun.
And type four fun is really great fun on the, in the moment, but on reflection, a bad idea. Those are the types of fun.And the treks for a lot of people were type two.
Like seeing people, first of all, seeing strangers come together in the way that they do and support each other.And so on the treks, we have a lot of people who have maybe had a breast cancer diagnosis, might still be on active treatment.
They might never come off that treatment.It might be lifelong.People who have been affected by breast cancer in another way, by a friend or a relative, or people that just want to go on a challenge.So you've got people that are just
simply trekking for a cause.And for some people, it's just such a massive thing to kind of reclaim themselves.Yeah.So from the off, I knew exactly how I knew how special it was.And seeing people overcome their fears, push through,
It was, it felt like an honour.I can remember before the summit, the final day, walking alongside a woman called Jo.
We just stopped, just, I think we were literally like, it was around the corner and then we'd be at the top, but we kind of stopped to gather.And she said to me, this time last year, I didn't think I'd be alive.
And now we're about to walk up the top of a mountain.And we walked up the top of this mountain together.And I watched Jo go off with this amazing scenery.We were in Amman, the highlight in front of her.
And she just faced that view, and her whole body broke down at what she had been able to achieve when she felt her body had been against her for so long. And that I was just like, I want that.
I want to do that for people on repeat, whether they've had a breast cancer journey or whether they just feel down with life, whether they've had a breakup, whether they've got to a certain age and a kind of questioning their journeys or whatever.
So I kind of got home and I was like, I want to do that again.I want, I want to, I don't want to just, you know, I think a lot of charities feel like they can only ask so much of people.
We'll get you to do one campaign or one track and then we can't ask too much.So we won't ask again.Thank you so much.I was like, no, I care.I care about this.
And actually we, I think charities should nurture that when, when someone's given so much of themselves to you, nurture it, see if they want to do more.
But Chris had basically sent me a balloon, which I just thought was a lovely balloon with boobs on it.So I left her a voice note and was like, Oh my God, thank you so much for the balloon.It's so nice.
And then as I was on the voicing her, it just kind of swiveled around.And on the back of it, it said, Will you be our patron? It wasn't just a paper route.And you were already on the phone.Yeah, so obviously I cried.
And now, yeah, so it was originally one trek a year.Now we're our own.We're not with Fabulous.Because we just kind of, we'd grown.And Fabulous are an amazing platform that can help other smaller charities.
But it means that we can shout about it whenever, wherever.So we can do the TVs now and the radios and other, you know, broadcast media and stuff. But yeah, it's just grown and grown and grown.
And we now do two treks a year, well, two multi-day treks a year, and then the single days as well.So the single day, which happened a couple of weeks ago, it was the alumni trek.And on that one day trek, we've raised 156,000 pounds.
Last year we raised a million for the charity, the year before we did, and already this year we're over something like 670,000.You know, it's just, but we all know, We know the effects, like when you're tracking with someone who is literally saying,
I learned, you know, I was walking with someone in the Himalayas who, she said she started following me because of the mum content.Her friend had said to her, oh, she's got a child the same age, it might be useful for you to follow.
And she said, months later, she was in front of the mirror and saw something, because I think that's the other thing, people don't really realize that you can see things.
I think growing up, I always thought it was an older woman thing, and it was always a lump.It's not, it can affect any age, it can affect men, 400 men a year in the UK are diagnosed with breast cancer.
It's not just a lump, it's inverted nipple, nipple discharge, rash, dimpling of the skin, any difference basically for you.And it's up to your collarbone, up to your armpit.But I was walking with this woman.
And she said, a few months later, she had looked in the mirror and she'd spotted that something was different for her.
And she went to get it checked out, advocated for herself, because she was young, and so had to push for it, and was diagnosed with breast cancer.Had she not seen that post, she wouldn't have detected it early.And that's everything.
In any cancer, early detection is everything.And that's what will ultimately save lives.So I never tire of hearing people go, I found it because of Copperfield.
I mean, I bet you don't.And what a legacy she's left behind.Yeah.Incredible.Yeah. This episode is obviously brought to you by the Skinrocks app.You're free to download Ultimate Guide to Skincare, made by me, all in one place.
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More details in the show notes. I remember back in the early days of YouTube, you and Tom were on there regularly.Yeah, yeah, yeah.And so funny.Ha ha.You know, I mean, early days.Yeah, yeah, yeah.And then when you did your first pregnancy video.Yeah.
Tom's wedding speech, which even now I watch regularly just for the lols because I still can't every time I see that just the name Mario, because I don't equate it to a brother by Mario.I mean, I find myself doing it.That's how often I've watched it.
It sounds ridiculous.But when I first watched it, I went, That's the venue I told you to go to.And I was like, that's the venue.She went to the venue.Because obviously, I recommended.But you don't go, no, I don't know if you've got to book it.
And originally, we were going to go to, it was one Marlebone, but there was one Mayfair.
And one event.I don't think one Mayfair.Is one Mayfair still there?I'm not sure.One Marlebone.One Marlebone is still there.We still drive past it.I could see one Marlebone where I gave birth.
It was really weird kind of going, yeah, that's where we got married, and this is where we're having a baby. But yeah, but originally we were going to go to one Mayfair, but it didn't have its marriage license.We were like, well, let's split the day.
And then we realized we were being ridiculous and let's just go to one place.And we met at school in Marylebone.So it felt like the perfect place for us.But it's a magical place. Really gorgeous, thank you for the recommendation.
Oh no, you're very welcome.When you brought out, well you didn't, because clearly you were sitting there, I'm sure just as surprised.When Tom brought out Sylvia Young, I burst into tears.
I was like, he did not do this, he did not bring out Sylvia Young, he's played his ace card, how's anyone ever going to top this?Because when I told you my nephew was at Sylvia Young. What age, how old were you when you met at school?
13 at Sylvia.Yeah, 13.It was my first day.So he'd been there for a while already, been there for a few years.But in that school, there were only 140, 150 students from top to bottom, the whole school at that point.
And we would have to go to assembly and sit in our year groups in alphabetical order.So I was plonked down next to Tom.I was already quite flustered because I was a bit late.And he was sat next to a boy called Jason Green. And they were very giggly.
And they were a bit like, what's your name?And I was like, my name's Giovanna, but you can call me G. And he was like, my name's Tom, but you can call me T. We had a little giggle.
And you're like, oh, that's cute.
But it was all so overwhelming that day, because I can remember seeing kids from the biz behind us, and all these kids that you'd see on TV.And it was literally like watching an episode of the biz or Fame.
You'd have people that were pirouetting behind you.But it was just so exciting.Yeah, and then that's where me and Tom first met.
And I'm going to come back to what your favorite thing is.But on that journey, where in that journey does Tom become Tom from McFly?So when we were 18.
So we met at 13.Yeah, when we were 18.That's intense.Well, but we weren't together that whole time.So we dated for a couple of days pretty much straight away.And then he dumped me for his ex-girlfriend.
The audacity.Look at the faces on these two.
I know, real drama.A room of horrified people, Tom.And then we basically spent year 9 and year 10 going, I like you, no I don't, I like you, no I don't.Very small school, so Tom basically kissed every single girl in our class.
For God's sake, you're breaking Lib's heart here.
But he also had, I'm so sorry, but he also had a system, a little system, so he'd basically snog one girl before school, there were very few boys, okay, but it all worked out in the end, but he'd kiss one girl before school, one girl in the morning break, one at lunchtime, and one after school, but I had the lunchtime slot.
Wow, okay.Which was the longest, so, you know. But we'd always have this thing.So we'd always be like, you know, there'd be drama of one of us liking the other one and one not.
And we'd always be very much like, I think we need to we need to have a chat.We need to meet up and talk this through.So we'd go up outside.There was a new studio that no one really used.It was always quite quiet.
So we'd go up there and have a deep chat about, you know, what was going on. And we'd always end it with a hug.And this hug was the funniest thing.
Every now and then, we'd try to reenact it because we'd hug, but then our cheeks would slowly brush and move.So we'd end up with our lips smacking together. Yeah.
And how old were you when you were like, the lunchtime slot is done now, Tom?
Well, then we dated in year 11.So that was that was we did date for the whole of year 11.
And then at the end of it, we he was going to college in Harrow, I was going back to Essex, my mum and dad had just separated, I was a bit of like, well, all over the shop.So we split up.And we dated other people for a while.
But we always stayed in touch, always met up and ended up having a cheeky snog.
And then it's only when, basically I went to, on that Namibia trip that I was trekking, we had no phones, I was 18, and I found myself thinking about Tom a lot, rather than my boyfriend at the time. But I came back and was like, well, that was weird.
But I had this weird thing where I started drama school, I was at Roseburyford, and every weekend I'd go and see my ex.So one weekend I was literally in my car, driving south with them ferries, and I just thought, I'm gonna break up with him.
It'd come out of nowhere, absolutely nowhere, I'm breaking up with him tonight.And I think he was blindsided, I was, but literally the next day Tom phoned me and was like, so can you come over?Can you come?
And they'd literally just moved into the bound house.And I was like, no, no, no, I'm going to go out with my sister and we're going to get drunk.And that's the plan.
But the following week I went there and Dougie said to me, you're all he ever talks about. Yeah.And then, yeah, they hadn't launched then.They had their band house.
And I can remember months later than doing CD UK for the first time and just going down the road after that, we were on Carnaby Street and then hearing the first shriek from a gang of girls who had spotted them and just been like, wow, this is where we're going for a while.
I mean, it's not like it's let up, has it?They may not shriek in public as much, but they still shriek.
Yeah, but now, yeah, now I guess it's more confined to the gigs where there is shrieking.
But yeah, there was definitely, there were a few years where if we were in a shopping centre or anything, you just, you obviously heard it before you saw it and you just feel like, okay.
What's incoming?Incoming.
How are we going to navigate this one?
How do you navigate that growing up together, ultimately, and then family life and having children?Because it seems from the outside that the fanship of Macleod are very supportive of you.Of all the wives, but of you.
It doesn't seem to be like they're like, you know, it seems like they're very supportive.But how do you manage that together?You know, getting married, everything you do and then having children and then
or Tom goes on the road, but your children are older.
Yeah, I think the kids thing is an interesting one.I think we've always been really lovely to anyone that comes over and asks for pictures.We're always really talkative.
I like the fact that what we do means that when people come over, it's like the barriers are down straight away and you can be very conversational and friendly.However, there are moments where you're just like, really?
I'm with my kids, really, I've just, you know, and we had it last year, actually, when we'd just come out of a shop and one of the kids was really upset.And so Tom was having a moment with him and being, you know, really lovely.
Being a dad, you're doing that thing.And a woman came over and asked for a photo.I said, that's absolutely fine.And then she turns to me and she said, actually, I did really want Tom as well.I thought, well, he's currently busy dadding, so.
But don't you want me to do that?And I just think people don't necessarily think.And I think that's what I've learned.People don't think.They see someone that they
Recognize or they might have certain feeling towards and they react and you know, that is that is what it is And it's about how we then navigate it.Yeah, I just want to protect the kids.
I think they're a bit like oh you know again or And also letting them not letting it carry into oh someone might Recognise us, so therefore, please don't have a meltdown now.That can never factor into a situation.
No, they have to be able to be their kids.
Absolutely, absolutely.But yeah, it's... And the kids love it in a lot of ways.
I was going to say, when did you tell the kids, did you have to sit them down and tell them that mum and dad do things a bit differently?No!Or did it just sort of happen?
No, it happened.And we didn't realise that they didn't realise it was normal until they started asking if they could watch certain people that we know on the telly. No, no, no.Not everyone's on the telly.Why aren't they on the telly?
That's just our job.Especially when we've got our best mates Emma Willis or Matt, those people are on the telly.So realising that's not what everyone does.And also they've been going to gigs all their lives and they absolutely love it.
I am amazed at how unfazed they are by a crowd.
I can remember, it must have been about two years ago now, we'd gone to, it was Tom's birthday, and we'd gone to one of their gigs, and we'd got there, and the support act were on, and then the boys go, so what are we going on?
Tom's like, you're not going on?I'm like, yeah, yeah, we are.They went off, they did their hair.They were like, we're going on.And so Tom was like, ah.
So he spoke to the techies and was like, can they just go on and do the line test, whatever it's called, of the drums and the guitars and stuff.And the techs were like, don't worry, we'll look after it.
So they went on, Buzz goes up to the front mic with a guitar on around his neck and starts tapping the mic.It's like, is this thing on?No one can hear me.Is this thing on?Buddy's already there at the back bashing drums.
The second child.So the sound is obviously a bit like, right, well, let's just turn them up.And they start playing We Will Rock You. The crowd starts singing with them.
There's like 8, 9, 10,000 people in this crowd and the boys are unfazed, just playing along with them.And you and Thomas are going, oh my god, what is happening?Yeah.Whereas a school play, terrifying.
Being on stage in front of thousands of people, absolutely fine. What a normal scenario.Have they got the bug?Do you think?Oh, absolutely.
So and usually when we go on tour, which I dip into for a week and I've realized that the best thing is that the kids will go on the tour bus because that's really fun and I can follow behind in my car and listen to a nice audio book.
It's nice and civilized driving.So we'll go usually pop along for like a week and they just absolutely love it.They become obsessed with it.The sound checks now have to factor in an extra 15 minutes beforehand so that all the kids can go and
play and they will play.How many are there now between the band?Six all together.And Kit, Harry's little boy, is also an amazing guitarist.So they'll all come together and they'll jam.The lighting guys do all the lights.
It's absolutely, it's so amazing to see them all feeling being creative and feeling inspired by what they see, I do think they forget that it's not their gigs.That it is, you know, it's actually, yeah.
They're quite close to it, it's fair.
Yeah, but then they come back and, you know, they've got all their instruments set up.Basically, the McFly studios used to have like a stage because they used to have people come in to do like intimate gigs.
And they haven't been doing those, so they were getting rid of the stage.So we're like, well, we've got a barn, so let's put it in the barn.The barn now has a stage in it.
Their boys forced our builders, who are meant to be doing work on the house, to add to their stage.So they've now got a bigger stage area, and everything's set up.
And you know if you've got adults over, if you've got anyone over, and they head into the barn, that they are going to be forced to stay there for a while.But they're good, it's amazing.
And actually I've been thinking about it a lot recently because Buzz is in year five now but we're thinking about secondary schools and in one of the things, one of the application things that talks about grades
And I think so often when it comes to music and creative things, we can get a bit caught up in grades.Tom never took a grade in his life.His sister Carrie never took a grade in singing or anything like that.
And I think we also need to just harness a child's passion and what they love and creativity and not go, this is how you do it right.Applying an academic format to something that is purely creative
When you start thinking about it, it's such a weird thing that we do.Yeah, ground peg, square hole.
Going back to sort of everything that you both do, because I bought a load of books for my granddaughter, I put her in the trolley, we were in Asda, and I just do a, I have like a binge, I'm going, go on then, pick what you want, the Asda choice extras, and we bought a load of books.
It was only when I got home that like five of them were written by Tom. I went, because it's not my demographic, you know.It's the first time I'd bought a child's book in a long time.And I went, Tom, not Tom.Oh, it is Tom.
How do you go from Sylvia Young, I imagine singing, acting, dance, do they harness writing or did you both just go, oh, we could write?
No, but what I've realised over the years is because when I started writing, I felt like I felt like it was something that I couldn't do, even though I'd spent my life with my nose in a book.
I felt like writing was something that people that went to Oxford or Cambridge did.I didn't feel like it was something that someone who pretended to be a penguin in a field for a term could possibly do, you know?
But then when I started, I had a bit of a word with myself and just thought, Oh, no, I met Dorothy Coombson, who's an author that I love.And she just said, so many people say to her that they'd love to write.
She didn't know that I was sort of toying with it.And she said, unless you sit down and apply yourself and start doing it, you'll never know if you've got it in you to write a book.
So I sort of came home and just went for it with the help of an agent, actually, who I'd met the year before, who was very much like, just let me know if that ever goes anywhere.Because I was writing book reviews for Heat magazine at the time.
And I think what I realised in that first writing process is that it's all about character, especially if you're writing first or third person.You're writing from a person's point of view.
You are literally building a character and then exploring life with that character through their eyes.That is what you do at drama school. It's all storytelling.You know, even doing podcasts, you're facilitating someone else's story.It's all that.
It's all under the same thing, just in a different format.And as soon as I got over myself a little bit, I was like, well, I can do this.I can absolutely do this.I might do it in a bit more of a abstract way than some more academic writers.
You know, if I'm writing a certain scene, I might literally stand up in the room and feel it.Like, what is happening in my body?What's happening?What is that?What's the action?How would I describe this?
But then off the back of that, basically, Tom was a bit like, huh, what are you doing?What's that?What's that?But he's really irritating because he can draw as well.
And he started putting together these picture books that he'd pitched to different people.But with Dinosaur the Pooch, which was his first, no one wanted it.They went from publisher to publisher, and the publishers were like,
One said, we'll publish it, but you'll have to call it The Dinosaur That Ate Everything, or something.That Ate Christmas, the original one.If someone's offended by poop, they'll be offended by the book.They won't buy the book?Yeah, yeah.
So yeah, and then Tom says that one day he was looking at our bookshelves and his books were looking pretty thin compared to my novels, so we decided to do a little bit of a sidestep into middle grade.
But then we write together as well, so yeah, lots of writing.
So what would you pick?What gives you the most joy?What do you think is your sort of heart project of, if I have to do one thing forever and ever, I would really miss doing this?
I don't know, because every time I go to another project, I'm like, oh, this is what I love.I even have it with fiction and nonfiction.With nonfiction, because those books have been about motherhood and my experience, I'm like, well, I know this.
Isn't this so freeing?I know this completely.I can write about this all day long.Whereas with fiction, there's something amazing about creating worlds and going, well, it's not me.This is the character.So it doesn't matter if my dad reads it.
I didn't do that, dad.No, exactly.And there's something a bit freeing about that.Acting. There's the collaborative aspect.There's also, I think it all feeds into each other.
With acting, knowing that you have to leave your ego at the door, you have to not be so precious about what you create, I think that's really helped with my writing.
Because then when an editor comes in and goes, not this, this needs a tweak, or that's not working, you kind of go, great, let me do those tweaks and I can make it work.
Rather than going, no, this is what I'm, you have to be a bit more malleable, I guess.So I think they all feed into each other.And then podcasting, I just feel so honored. But the first thing to go into every year, every diary, are the tracks.
They're the first thing every year.And then everything else feels like a bit of a bonus.But I feel like it's a lovely thing not quite knowing what's going to come up and what's going to be the thing.
However, it's really scary as well, because I hate the idea of a five-year plan or a 10-year plan.When people start talking strategy, I literally, my insides curl up.I hate it.I absolutely hate it.
And I know that so much of the online space is strategy.I know that strategy lives in lots of other places, but there's something about when you're creative, kind of going, this works, Oh, great.But my insides aren't telling me to create that.
And it goes against to why I share.And I think you have to trust that curdle every now and then.So basically, to answer your question, I can't pick.You can't pick?Fantastic.I'm so glad that I brought it up. But they all give me something different.
And I think every acting job that I've ever had, before stepping on stage, and it goes back to Ivanov, before going on stage, I have the fear.I'm like, I can't do this.I'm no good.I'm gonna go out and I'm gonna totally fluff it up.
I'm gonna go out and I'm gonna fall on my face.I'm gonna, you know, all these things. come into play in my head.And then there's a traffic light system when you're about to go on stage.It goes from red to green.
The green light happens, you go on stage, and you just deliver.Like, there's no thinking about it, really, with live stuff.And I absolutely do love that.Plus, I broke my ankle on stage before, and I don't think anything could get worse than that.
And I still did the show, so, you know, what's worse that can happen?I break the other one?
I always have this thought about when I see people doing treks and things like that, that involve a long way away from, you know, sort of hotels and comforts.And so being completely superficial, how do you take care of your skin on a trek?
Caroline, you're going to hate me.I don't know.
I'm not going to hate you.I'm not going to hate you.You are, though.You're on a trek.You're raising money for charity.
I listened to Sarah Jessica Parker tell you about wipes, and you didn't, it sounded like you didn't even flinch at the word of a wipe.
I did flinch.Did you?Yeah, but the context was, she said, and then I use a wipe, and I could tell she wasn't finished.OK.And she said to take all the grease off, because I don't want to clog the sink.
And then I throw them away, and then I wash my face properly.OK.OK.So she didn't just wipe.And also, it was Sarah Jessica Parker.It was in the early days.I was clearly very nervous and excited.And I was just like, mm-hmm.Mm-hmm.
And all the comments are, how can you not bring up that she said wipes?
As soon as she said it, I was like, she doesn't use them day to day.It's post stage.OK, that's fine.That's fine.So on a trek, I do not care.Of course.
What I look like is so irrelevant in terms of what we're there to achieve, what other people have been through.There's something really healing about it. I mean, I've worked out that I do need to look after my lips.
I meant purely, I don't mean like how you look.
I meant purely for comfort.Yeah, yeah, yeah.For comfort.
A lip, something on my lips.Lip balm.Because in Cornwall, what I've realised is I'm really bad at anything on a trek.I'm not allowed glitter. Because one trek in Cornwall, I had put sun cream on and it had gone in my eye from the sweat.
And you were like this?Yeah, and then the glitter had gone in.And then I think there was some sort of allergic reaction to the pollen in the air.
Caroline, my face the next day when I woke up, I looked like I'd had all the filler, but it had all gone really wrong. And I came out, Matt Willis is on that track, and I came out and I hid my lips, and my eyes were droopy, like they were bad.
And I came out and I hid my lips and I was like, Matt, something's happened.And I showed my lips and he was like, fuck!
And then you're like, OK, if Matt is saying, fuck, then something is wrong.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely that.But I think that's what's actually really freeing about it.I think I've always been a little bit... rubbish when it comes to my skincare and my beauty regime.However, I've got better since motherhood.
I think hearing you talk about wipes, not just that, but actually starting to enjoy the art of taking off
my makeup at the end of the day, and even if I haven't worn makeup, washing my face, putting on a nice cream, it feels... The kids are asleep, and this is the final few moments of the day, it feels really nice to give myself something.
Also, I realised that one of the reasons I didn't like washing my face before I went to bed, so I was definitely someone who used to sleep in makeup and would just sort it out in the shower the next day.I was.
I've reformed.It's absolutely fine.You've lived through wipes, it's fine.
Yeah, it's fine.But the reason why was because the stuff that I used to like was foamy.Like I used to love the, is it cordly, cordly?The foam wash, I love it.It's one of my favorites, right?But using that at nighttime, the water drips down my arms.
And I'm already in my pajama.I'm in my pajamas once I put the kids to bed.So now my pajamas are wet.That's really, that's not a great thing.Now I'm going to bed with wet arms, wet pajamas.So.
That's like the most pathetic excuse I've ever heard in my life.
Well, it was my excuse. And I'm sticking with it.But then, actually I think it was yours, the Pixie the Jewel.Using that at night time totally changed it.Suddenly realising, oh wait, I don't need to have wet pyjamas.I don't need to be dripping.
Yeah, I can use a cloth, what's that about? That reformed it, so thank you.
Oh well, I'm honoured, I'm honoured, my word.Being superficial, what if the house is on fire, if the kids are safe, Tom's safe, Tom's writing a book to be competitive,
What are you going to be disappointed to have lost out of your bathroom cabinet, whether it's makeup, skincare, fragrance?Perfumes.All my perfumes.I've got a little silver tray.
Everyone's got their thing.Yes, the silver tray that makes a horrible noise every time I walk up and down in the room.Yeah, it all clashes against each other.And there's loads of Jo Loves, loads of Jo Malone in there.
I feel like I'm cheating on either whenever I use the other.But what I've realized is I like a concoction.I'm like a science experiment every day.I was loving Orange Blossom and Red Rose together.
Like a little... You're a walking advert without being paid.
I'm going to contact the PR and go, you have no idea what clickbait I'm using for you, love.
But I just, rather than have one fragrance, I have a concoction.
Which is exactly what Sarah Jessica Parker said.Really?And that's what I do.I wear at least three a day. Yeah.You can't wear three ouds.
No, that's too much.Three sort of fairly lightish, you know, whatever.I feel like a fragrance says so much.
And my most disappointing thing in life, big statement, I know, but it's when you walk past someone who you think, God, they're going to smell good.And then there's nothing. Not even don't.
I could handle a bad smell probably, but no smell is just like the biggest anti-climax in the world.Yeah, can you please smell?Yeah, put on something.Just let me linger.I hugged a mum the other day at school actually.
She's this mum who is just, she just is so glamorous.She was in her gym gear and she just looked ridiculously glamorous.
Don't you just hate that?
Well I had to say to her, I was like, you're in your gym gear and you look ridiculously glamorous.And she gave me a hug and then I smell like her for the next hour and I loved that.
Oh, what does she smell like?She smelled like I've got my shit together.
Yes, and I channeled that for the rest of the morning while I was digging out things in the garden.
I did that when I bumped into, accidentally met Oprah and I stood next to her.
And I was close enough to get a selfie.Yeah.One of the only people I've ever asked for a selfie was Oprah.Hello.I was like that.And I was like this.And I took a moment.Thank God I went, smell, smell, smell.Yes.And I went.
Yes!That's totally what we should do in life.Breathe them in.
Be reassured, Oprah smells Oprah.
How would you describe it?
Wealthy.Pure wealth.Wealth.Wealth.Confidence.
Clean, but not like clean, the stupid clean, be like fresh.
Not fresh linen, not washing.
No, no, no, no, no, just, she smelled like, yeah, bitch, I'm Oprah.
And so did our bodyguards who were fit as, but that's another story. I'm loving this.
Do you have any early memories of sort of like with your mum and beauty and hair and skincare anything like that where you kind of have that first memory of you know whether it was a fragrance or watching them get ready going out?
Well my mum told me I was allergic to makeup until I was 16.So that you wouldn't wear it?I don't know I had an older sister and she didn't wear loads but I mean I started wearing clear mascara and I was suddenly like, whoa.
Nothing's happening, yeah.But I can remember a lot of blue eyeliner, a lot of big, all of my aunts on the Essex side, well most of them are blonde, so they're big, kind of short, buoyant hair, very like Princess Diana.And yeah, so there was,
That was my main thing of beauty back then and lots of oil of Yule, as it was called.My mum didn't, I wouldn't say she focused heavily on her sort of beauty regime.And now I understand it being a mum, you're kind of like, do what you do.
I just remember a lot of Mr. Motivator or diets.That's my big thing that I remember. With my own hair, so my hair was obviously very different to theirs.I can remember this one day that my mum
took us to go and get our hair put into rollers, and they took it out, and I looked like Shirley Temple, and I absolutely loved it.I absolutely loved it.I can still remember it.How old are you at this point?Oh, maybe about five.
And then I can remember my mom did the absolute worst thing, and she brushed my sister's hair with these ringlets in, and they all just fell out.And my sister was distraught, so she had to brush mine as well, because, you know.
You had to take one for the team.Take one for the team. and crimping.I think for us it was all hair.I can remember mum always having rollers in, the endless hairspray, the endless backcombing to get it right.
I remember rain being the worst thing in the world.You don't go out and get your hair wet. But also the idea of going anywhere without your face on.Literally, your face on.
That's what we call it, right?That's my mum's generation.My mum would not go to the post box without her face on.
No.I can remember actually years and years ago, it must have been about 12 years ago, maybe 13 years ago, there was a McFly documentary, McFly on the Wall, and I was on it.And I was filming whilst my hair was in rollers.
I put my hair in rollers and I had no makeup on.The family WhatsApp group was just like, Giovanna. How could you go on TV and not have any makeup on?So it was definitely a thing of you weren't ready until that was absolutely on.
And I just remember doing a lot of experimenting on dolls because I couldn't do it on myself.But lots of just very cheap doll makeup.
Isn't it freeing not having that generational pressure?When I did this morning for the first time and washed my face, I had washed my face with a bowl and basically, you know, Holly said, well, you know, sometimes I just do a quick.
I was like, well, I'm sorry, Holly, that's unacceptable.And I put my hair up and washed my face.And my mum and her friends and generation were like, oh, you're very brave.
And I thought, how sad is it that they're so terrified of not showing, you know, they don't want to show their face.
It's funny because I feel like maybe our generation are more open to it than I feel sad for a lot of the younger generation who have actually gone back.Yeah.And, you know.
there's just so much I was talking the other day about with Instagram stories when they first came in suddenly that feeling of oh well I'm not gonna be I'm not gonna make up all the time I'm not gonna be ready the whole time and actually finding that really freeing that this is me totally me it's what I look like today lads yeah and if I would rather someone see me with no makeup on um
I'm not going to say out my worst, with no makeup on, and then see me with makeup on or in real life and go, oh, you look really good, rather than see me with tons of filters on, heavily made up, then see me in real life and go, oh, you look nothing like what you put out there.
Also, if I go missing, people know what I look like.
Well, that's fair.That's a very fair point.Yeah.I accidentally, on a live the other day, didn't know there was filters at the bottom of a live.I knew they were at the bottom of when you're doing stories.Shut up, you two.
And I flicked a filter up and I went, oh, what's happened?And I couldn't do it.And then one of my team, young social team, came down and were like fixing it like, here you are, granny.But then I was like, oh my God, this one's on there.
And I did the one that's like Will Ferrell in, with the big white hair.But then the one with the big lips and the filler.And then I went hysterical.And I was like, she's got, it's like Jennifer Coolidge on crack.
I was just like, you know when you do that kind of like, it's like Planet of the Apes.You know, I was just like, hysterical.But the fact that that even exists as something that is recognisable, pack it in.It was very funny.
Yeah, something that's recognisable as a face that's available now.Quite terrifying.
Yeah, yeah.So I find it quite freeing that I don't, I'm not that. Yeah, I love having my makeup done by a beauty.Yeah a makeup artist.
I love that Yeah, and I would you would think though after having it done for sort of what 12 years That I would know what they're doing to my face every time so any Sullivan does my makeup every time she does it I kick myself afterwards cuz I was meant to pay attention today because I I want to learn what she does just to be able to kind of
adapt, adopt it in some way.But I don't.My makeup always looks basically the same.But I'm fine with that.
Exactly.I mean, I do my face now.I think I've reached that point where I mostly prefer it when I do my own hair and face.
I kind of got to the point where I think you get a bit older and a bit more irritated.Yeah.And I don't really want to sit in the chair for hours.
Oh, yeah.No, I can't do that.I can't do I can't do that.Like if if we've got somewhere to be or I'm just like Enya brush face brush face like let's not door door.Let's just get on with it.Let's crack on.Let's get let's get out.
Get get it done and get out for sure.
What have we got coming up this year?Because I'm I'm very aware we've taken up far too much of your time.
I love it!Like you say, listening, I'm like, oh, I could just sit and listen to you talk.You do, like, audiobooks, but for, I mean, obviously you do, but for, you know, bedtime stories for mums that are a bit tired.That's nice!Sod the children.
Yes, do you know what, I was listening to, the kids have got a Yoto at the moment, Yoto Daily, where one man every night does a little thing for the kids, whether it's like jokes one night, five facts one night, I thought there should be something like this for mums, it's kind of like bite size.
There you go, you can have the idea, we'll split the profit.Thank you, there we go.
Great.Nice.What have you got coming up this year besides making us both a fortune?
Right, I have two treks, well three treks, Brecon Beacons, the Himalayas, we're going back to the Himalayas, which will be for Copperfield's 15th birthday, and the single day in September, which actually anyone who's ever applied for a trek or wants to do a trek can apply to do, that one is in the Peak District, so we either do half a marathon or a marathon, and it is, well the last one I was a bit,
We broke a lot of people that day.You know, I think walking a trek is very different to running a trek, or marathon.Neither are easy, but there's something about being on your feet for 10 hours that is just... Couldn't do it.
I did the moonwalk, but I did the half moonwalk.
That's a lot of fun, though.
Because my best friend had breast cancer and survived.I was in shock.She had to comfort me, shockingly.I was like, what does it mean?She was like, it's fine, I've got the flu. And I'm going to get rid of it."And that was her mentality.
But when she'd done her treatment and she was okay, we did the half moonwalk together.Oh, we were like two old battered birds.It was hysterical.
I've done the moonwalk and the person I was walking with hadn't done any training was wearing really heavy trekking boots rather than trainers because we're only in London.I literally had to drag around the whole thing.
We'd made playlists, we were like, oh look, I'm going to play playlists.I didn't listen to it once.We spent the whole time walking around, literally, and we were making terrible jokes that you do when it's your best friend.
Things like, if this cancer doesn't kill you, this fucking walk will.I mean, literally, the kind of thing you can say.
Dark humour gets you through, right?Yeah, yeah, absolutely.Well, thank you so much.Thank you. I bow down.After doing this just for one season, I am like, you, I cannot.And the audience you've managed to cultivate, the community you've cultivated.
I mean, a few weeks after I'd done your pod, I was sitting there, I was like, I'm sorry, is that Kate Middleton doing Happy Mum, Happy Baby?And I was like, well. Someone's knocked it out the park.
When you get the call, you're like, OK, we have security coming to check it out.That's a whole other.
Yeah, it's a whole other thing, really.Yeah.And we weren't sure we were going to ever get her.It was like she doesn't do that sort of thing.Maybe you'll get you'll get 10 minutes.Then I met her not in a podcast environment and instantly clicked.
And the next thing I know, I was told we were going to get 45 minutes.Then we had an hour and a half.Unbelievable.
But she obviously listened to your episode and was like, yeah, I'll do it.
I can categorically say that's not true.I don't think she's ever going to listen to my episode of me effing and blinding.But I mean, it was funny for sure.But thank you so much and much continued success.
Thank you.And to you.Thanks.We're done with this.
Do you know why it's exhausting for you?Because it's listening and you love a chat.Yeah.You must just be like holding it in the whole time.
Well, I said to the guys earlier, I was like, OK, so we've had, you know, first episodes going out and things like that.And I know there's episodes coming down the road where it's a good friend who's also got ADHD.
And I just said, the poor editors, man.I mean, because it's not me purposely trying to interrupt.We just, you know when you finish each other's sentences and you're just like, yeah, yeah, oh, yeah, oh, yeah.And it could be a disaster.We'll see.
I'm looking forward to it.But I enjoyed listening to you.Thank you.Thanks, G. You can hear much more from our chat this Wednesday, so make sure you tune in.Send your questions to pod at carolinehirons.com.Until then, I'm glad we had this chat.
New episodes are available every Monday and Wednesday.Follow or subscribe now on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.Glad we had this chat.It's produced by wall-to-wall media.
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