Welcome to Glad We Had This Chat with me, Caroline Hirons.It's your one-stop shop for all things skincare, beauty, and beyond.My guest this week is a multifaceted talent with a successful career in music, TV, and now entrepreneurship.
Not only is she the proud owner of the award-winning children's skincare brand, My Little Coco, she's also a best-selling children's author and a thriving and fabulous TV presenter.Please welcome to the pod, the wonderful Rochelle Humes.
Hi, Rochelle.Hello, you.I know we just start talking the minute we sit down, but I thought I should say hello and actually start something special.
We always do that, don't we?Then we pretend we've not seen each other yet.
Yeah, I haven't seen you.Oh, my God, you just walked in.
No, we haven't had a gossip.
We haven't just put the world to rights.Thanks for coming.Thanks for having me.Of course.I'm like, I've been wanting to talk to you for so long.I mean, we see each other, don't we, in passing and this morning and whatnot.
Going in one thing and out of another.Yeah, yeah.So when did you last do this morning?
I, at the start of the year, and I'm back in the summer.
Yes, I've got a couple of weeks.
Do you know what?It is really a family, isn't it?It's one that I love being able to, like, be in, and then depart again, and then, yeah, it's really, it's kind of a, it's a nice working sort of... It doesn't really feel like work.It doesn't, does it?
And I can't, especially when we get to do fun items, like, yourself and things that I'm really interested in.I'm like diving in, taking the freebies.
Shout out to Fleur in the green room.
Yes, I mean, does she or does she not make... I'm not really a toast person, but when I'm up this morning, I'll have a cup of tea and a slice of toast with butter and strawberry jam, because she just makes it like no other.
And you don't really have a choice.Toast, babe.Toast.
Yeah, well, that's what you're getting.Although she started ordering me a Joe and the Juice, and I just can't... I'm like, oh. So I take it every time.She's like, do you want a green shield?I'm like, yes, please.Wow.
I've been there for a few years now.
Yeah, I've won her over.I think Fleur should be in the wall of fame.I mean, yeah, she should be in the hallway.
Right outside the green room.Yeah.I'd happily take my picture down to give it to Fleur.
I'm so going to use this as a clip.She deserves it. So when you started, did you have any idea you'd end up being the sort of multitasking entrepreneur, presenter, I mean everything that you're doing now?No.
Bearing in mind that when you started you were how old?
I started in S Club Juniors at 11, almost 12.I mean, how was that? Just take a moment for S Club.How was that?Do you know what?It's so funny because I don't remember a lot of it.We've got actually a little group chat on WhatsApp, us S Club juniors.
That's going to send my lot wild.
Yesterday they were all chatting and talking about, and a few of us was like, is it just me?I have no recollection of the conversation they're talking about.Have they got kids because it'd be baby brain?
No, no, no.My memory was shot after I had kids.
But do you really remember everything that when you were 11, 12, 13?
JR being shot, things like that, and concerts I went to.
So like little stories that sometimes people talk about, or because obviously I was so young then, and then full circle when I'll be doing like appearances on TV shows, they'll be like, I actually had you, I looked after you when you were like 13.
And I'm like, oh my gosh, no way.But I, I just don't remember.But what I do remember is that I just had the best time.I like begged my mum to let me do it.Because we went for an audition and it wasn't actually to be in a group.
It was to perform at Wembley Arena, a one-off.I watched it on CBBC.So I entered and it was like a one-off audition to perform for S Club 7.
that were going on tour and it was like to perform at Wembley to sing a song and it wasn't for a group it was just for one person to do it.So I entered and then it got whittled down and whittled down and then I remember Simon Fuller
came in and he said, this is the final, like, I think we thought at the time it was like the final 10 that were like, have been worn down out of thousands of kids.
And then he was like, we actually want to make a junior-esque, and I literally remember being sat on my mum's lap and literally whispering to her, if you don't let me do this, I will never talk to you again.
Because I just thought she'd be like, no, you've got school.
And she did.She let me.And we were kind of just we had the best time.We were so well looked after.Like there's no like stories of yeah, there's no stories of anything other than that.And I know a lot of people that did that kind of child star route.
do have some kind of horror stories to tell.
But I think our parents were super involved and probably at some points that probably kind of annoyed the management and the label, but we were so well protected that then fast forward when I went on to join the Saturdays, I remember being really shocked at like the amount of work that was involved.
Because we were so sheltered.So we'd do like a few hours a day, then do some schooling and, or vice versa.And then that was it.
So we were so well protected that when I was like a big woman in the Saturdays, I was like, bloody hell, these hours are long.
Where's my chaperone?I used to do treatments backstage at the Brits.And a couple of years in a row, we had Little Mix.And we would do massage and stuff.And those girls were always exhausted.Exhausted.They turned it on.
The minute they were on stage, they were on. But but that's the adrenaline and that's the like passion in you.But yeah, dead on their feet.They work you hard.
Yeah.And you get really good at like taking a nap in the back of a Viano or like sleep like you get really good at that instant sleep. But yeah, it's kind of, when I entered the Saturdays, I was like, wow, now the real work begins.
And how old were you then?18, when we- Still so young.Yeah, still young.We hadn't launched at that time, but that was when we'd sort of started, and I think it was like a year or so after that, maybe, yeah, 20 maybe.
And how long did the Saturdays go for, before you- Until we sort of called it a day. I want to say it was like when Aaliyah was like one.She's just turned 11.So like 10 years ago.Yeah.I mean, where's the time go?
I have no idea.And we kind of never really said like that.
We were just like, should we just put this on pause for a bit?I think we got to the point where we'd had an album, had a single.Everyone had sort of started to
we were really welcoming of like, you know, Frankie had been asked to sing on a single of a band that she loved and we were like, do it.Or I'd got asked to host something and we were quite welcoming of us doing our own individual projects.
But then I think we all started to do a little bit more and we were like, actually, we kind of want to explore this for a bit.And then we were like, let's just put it on ice for a bit and see,
where we are, and then of course you all do your own separate things, and then it's like even impossible for us to get a dinner in, you know, like, because we're just there, we have five different diaries, and it's like, and kids, and partners, and everything else that comes with it, so then you kind of, we're like, we must get a dinner in soon, we need a cocktail, and it's like been a while, but people always ask, do you think you'll do it again?
It's really, it's one of those things that we always say, never say never, but not a conversation that we have actually had.
No, yeah.I mean, you could have just sat on your laurels and been like, oh, this is quite nice.Married a man, I'm good.
But you've kind of gone even, I mean, have you ever been busier?
And do you know what I do?I mean, why start one business when you can start 55?I know.And I do have, I feel like you're like this, though.
You can relate.But I have those days where I just think, why didn't I just, you know, chill?Like yesterday was one of those days, was like quite a testing one.I was like, why don't I just sort of, you know, stay at home again?
Why didn't I just relax for a bit, have kids, relax?
My brain would have just gone to hell.
Yeah, and I found Being a mum is my favourite thing in the world and something that comes so naturally to me.But without having a career, I don't think, for me personally, I'd be a great mum because I'd be really frustrated.
So, yeah, for me, I really... You know, my most productive work, which is bizarre, happens not long after I've had a baby, because I've got that downtime and I'm at home and I'm feeding and I say, chill, you know, you've got a baby.
But you know what I mean?There's not really much other distraction other than being mum.And I think that's actually where some of my best ideas were born.And, you know, that's when, like, my mind gets really...
If my mind rests, that's when I'm creative, but... It very rarely has time to do so.Exactly, because the more that you're creative, the more that you put into it, then a business happens, and then your mind then can't rest, because it's so busy.
When Coco comes around, how long did it take you?Because I know what it takes to build a brand, so when I saw you, I was like, oh, that's such a good idea.But, you know, the story of it didn't exist, and I had to create it.
But when you've got kids, where was the tipping point where you went, no, it actually doesn't exist, and I do want to create it?
So for me, I had had a layer and I was pregnant with Valli and I was just one of those mums that were like really kind of, I suppose with my first giving bougie mum energy, like, I'm only gonna do this and she's probably not gonna use an iPad.
I mean, after like six months that changed rapidly.
Then you have number two and it's like, forget it.
Yeah, yeah, forget it, out the window.And I was really kind of researching into everything.I found it really hard where products were concerned
The high street I found quite hard in terms of hair care, in terms of moisturizers being, you know, rich enough for black skin.
There was a lot of different elements that I found quite tricky and I was shopping quite premium and everything I was using was a little bit more drying or just not what I would want. So that's sort of where my interest in it really become.
And then it was when I was pregnant with Valli and she was a tiny baby that I really started really sort of developing and really researching into it more because
what I didn't understand was that there were formulas that you could use on a layer who was then three and a half, four at the time, but I couldn't then use on my newborn.
And that to me, I was like, well, my three and a half year old is still as precious as my baby.What's in this that I can't now use it on her, but I can on her.And I didn't really understand that.
So that's when the sort of journey become, and it was really for me, making diverse products accessible and premium.You know, I don't want to... Why do we have to go to certain shops?Premium quality, but not premium cost.Not premium cost.
Available, accessible, but premium aesthetic.You know, that kind of real creativity that's gone into the brand and that will really draw you in.And I just didn't... There was nothing like it at the time.
And it was those kind of real big players like the Johnsons and so on and so forth.And now it's really weird that we sit on a shelf above them, in fact.
Yeah, I just, you know. But it's surreal to me, and it will always be a pinch-me moment, that little idea that was born over my kitchen table.My mum drew the logo.And I sent that into design, and she still says she's waiting for her invoice.
But yeah, it's been a real labour of love.Every photo shoot is a family affair.Marv's on set blowing bubbles, and it's all hands on deck. But I love it.I'm so proud of it.
And it's, I can't believe it's success to be honest, but at the same time... It's massive, right?I mean, it's a big brand.It's the number one baby brand in boots, which kind of... It's number one in the UK.Yeah.
And I just, I never take it for granted.But actually...
it's a lot of work and it isn't just like an airy fairy thing that I decided and it was born and then the work and you know yourself the work that goes into it and how serious I like that's my job you know people think that that's kind of a side hustle for me but actually
being on this morning or being on TV has weirdly turned into like the extra thing that I do that I enjoy so much and I love.But day to day, it's not glamorous.I'm in the office.
Yesterday, my day was full of legal trademarking calls that I honestly just thought, you know, kill me now.And it's that side that I've really had to learn and deep dive into because I fell in love
the creative and me being creative director is what I'm here for, my love of product, but actually that other side of it and staff and people and personality management and everything else is like, it's actually not what I want it to do, but it's what I've inherited and I'm trying to be great at it and I'm trying to give it my all.
But yeah, that side of it is kind of, A beast.
How much of the success do you, do you credit the product itself enough with the success of the brand?Because I feel like sometimes people will say it's because you're famous.
Now that gets you in the door but it doesn't keep it selling.
It does not keep it selling and the product is lovely.
So if I'm in there, I just instinctively, and I bought it I think before I knew it was yours. You told me that one time.
I remember you saying that to me.And I was like, oh, that's clever.Makes me so happy.Do you know what?That's a really good point.And I think I am not silly.I know that my privilege being status, and I hate the word celebrity, but it is what it is.
You get what I mean.That definitely makes people maybe reply to an email quicker.And the meeting will probably happen a bit quicker, for sure. but the product has to speak for itself.
And that was something that I didn't want my range, which is what people calling it at the start.I'm like, no, no, no, it's a brand.I'm building a brand.I didn't want it to be by Rochelle Humes.I didn't want that to be,
Follow me and you know me, you know it's mine.But I get so many comments that are like, oh my gosh, I didn't know that had anything to do with you.And it wasn't baby by Rochelle Humes.That was never what I wanted.
I wanted to build a brand that would stand the test of time.And if you look at in the ingredients in the back somewhere where the address you can see in small print that it says founded by Rochelle Humes.That was just to flatter my ego slightly.
But you know, for me, the repeat purchase says what you need it to say, doesn't it?And I think definitely on that first launch, sales will do that, won't they?Because they're like, oh, Rochelle, if you follow me, Rochelle's released this brand.
But it's that thing that actually I've run out, I need more.You've got to keep it that way.Exactly that.So I think that's what has been so important to me this whole time.And I've sort of really, we launched the brand in
February, February the 17th, 2020.God, already four years.Yes.But as we all know, a few weeks after it went on shelf, we went into a global pandemic and a lockdown.
And I have never felt so ill in my life because this was like everything on the line for me here.And I was really, really concerned. as to the future of the brand because we'd put so much to get.
We launched with seven SKUs and we'd put everything into getting this out, getting the support.We were lucky that we launched with Boots as a retailer because they sort of helped me forecast.
So I didn't have as much risk because I sort of ordered based on what they thought it would shift.
And then did they under forecast?Did you oversell?
And then we oversold.And I, being like the celebrity world that I come from, was like, bloody sold out.This is great.Everyone popped the champagne.
But then you got empty shelves.
But I didn't know that.So this was me.This is everything that I've learned on this journey.And I think what happened is we really sort of cultivated that.
customer that was, do you remember when you could only shop in boots or a supermarket and it was such a treat because it was a pharmacy it stayed open so you know someone was looking down on me and that that was the partner that we went with obviously as much as I love and adore them.
But yeah, I just assumed that you sell out and it's just like, our job here is done.Like, when's the next, when are you gonna place the next order?Naively.And then it was the panic and the team were like stressed.I was like, guys, what?
Can we not just celebrate this milestone?And it was like, okay, now we're gonna have to air freight this and we can't send it by sea and the stock and it's selling and yeah.And from that day since, my feet haven't touched the ground to be honest.
that was the biggest lesson, I think, for me, that I was like, actually, this is a business and the shelves can't be empty and it isn't all celebrations and letting off the confetti cannon.It's like, let's get to work.
And that's when I- We had a great day, what's next?What's next?And what else can we do?And what, you know, should we look at other fragrances?And this has been the best seller.And should we look at, you know, adapting this?
And it kind of, that's when I was like, oh, This is the difference between me having a licensing deal, which I've had before, and actually what my previous management thought was a good idea for me.
They were like, put the risk on somebody else, have a licensing deal, be the face of something.But I had that thing in me that I was like, that's not what I want.I want, this is like where my head is at.
And that's sort of when the penny dropped and I was like, okay, this is the real difference now.
This is actually all on me.
And As I said, since that moment, it's all on me.
It's all I feel like I can say.But you could have done licensing deals.Yeah.
Which, for people who don't know, is basically, you basically give people your name and you do appearances and you sort of put your name on a box and stuff and you get a percentage.
Which, by the way, works.There's nothing wrong with that.
I mean, it's how all the big fashion houses, it's how all their fragrances are made.It's all licensing deals.It's how they, you know, it's why J. Lo and Britney Spears have made more money from fragrance than they have anything else.
And that's what I do with Next.So I license them, I have an edit with them where I don't design the clothes, I look at what they've got for that season and I go, I would wear this, I would wear that, I like this, I like that.
We package it together and it's the Rochelle series.And I've done that for however many years and I love it.But if it sells out, it sells out.My royalty's great and I'm happy.
But obviously for Next they would have a different problem when it sells out and that's the problem that I have.
And that's on them.And that's where the learning curve really started for me.
What in your background do you think made you think with each stage, it sounds like you wanted to go the extra step.No, I want to do it myself.No, I'm going to do this and I'm going to do this.
I'm not just going to stop at one brand and I want to do this and I can present and I'm going to do this.
What made you? So I can do all of this and at the same time and have kids and a husband.
Yeah I'm a bit delusional to be honest.It helps.Yeah I think it's my toxic trait but it's also my skill set and I've always been taught that If you don't ask, you don't get, and shy kids don't get sweets, is kind of like the motto.
And I think it's my mum, and she's who I'm gonna blame here, because she's always been the person that like, and obviously in a different world, in a different scale, but you know, we were kind of ready to flee the nest, and she wanted to go back to school because she wanted to be a nurse, and then she decided she wanted to be a paramedic.
She was a hairdresser. And she's always been there, well, why not?Why not?And I've definitely inherited that from her for sure.But I just don't ever feel, I'm really optimistic.
And I'm sure one day that's gonna bite me in the ass, but I just think, well, we can make it work.And I'm kind of like that as a leader of a team.I'm like, well, we'll figure it out.What's the options?It's gonna happen.
And sometimes it will get me into hot water, of course.
But ultimately you can figure anything out if you put your mind to it and that's what... But that's the difference as well between sort of the whole thing of like going down that road of sort of sitting back doing a licensing deal and then doing it yourself and having the responsibility is the leadership quality is stepping in and going, this is fixable, we can do this.
Why is everyone panicking?We'll be fine. Maybe later on when you get home you go, Jesus, what a day.Jesus!
That's what I do, and that's the version of me that my husband gets.I really am like, armour on, come on, we've got this, and then it'll be on that drive home where I'm like, fuck.Yeah, literally. But then I don't live in that world for too long.
I'm like, okay, put your big girl pants on and let's go.And I'm in that realm at the minute.I'm having to put my big girl pants on.We're literally, there's a new launch that's a few weeks away and you know what it's like.
Everything's set, then Spanner's in the works and we're in that bit at the minute.And my big girl pants, my Spanx are firmly up.
You'll be home later, you can bitch moan later, it'll be fine.Yeah. This episode is obviously brought to you by the Skinrocks app.You're free to download Ultimate Guide to Skincare, made by me, all in one place.
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More details in the show notes. Was your mum instrumental in sort of hair and beauty memories of when you were a child?Yeah.What are your earliest memories of sort of... Yeah.
So, my mum was a hairdresser and, like, typical kind of white hairdresser's salon shampoo and sets.And I used to go and get pocket money by washing hair, but I actually hated it.No.
Cos I was, like, didn't want to wash old ladies' hair when I was young.Hair.
I don't like it. But my mum was a single parent, so she raised me and my sister alone.So she'd go wash her hair because my mum would make a deal with her that if she washed my hair, she would sew my sequins on my dance leotards.
and stuff, so the lovely lady would like, while she's having her hair blown, would be sitting sewing, so like my costume would be done by the end of the day, because between everyone, that was my mum's way of multitasking.
So that was my mum's, it was called Shampers, and that was my mum's salon, and- Where is this?This is in Essex, in Collier-O, and I don't think it's there anymore, I think it changed hands a few times afterwards, but that was at my mum's kind of,
Hub and I would go and get tips and you know sweep the floor and that kind of stuff and then
My mum used to sort of try loads of different things out and there wasn't, you know, goodness me, compared to now, the stuff that was on the shelf for my hair type wasn't, I mean, there just wasn't anything.
And my mum would have to like drive from Essex to another side of London where the community was probably a little bit more diverse or we could find products for me.That wasn't in a pharmacy behind a locking key.Correct, exactly that.
So my mum used to put fabric conditioner.Oh my god in yeah, I mean I used to smell amazing I mean, I'm not sure I didn't get a rash I don't know what the allergens would look like now.
She used to put fabric conditioner on warm water in like a garden spray pump and And literally, that's what my haircare regime was.Because someone had told her that somewhere down the line.
It is what it's for.It is the positive and the negative charge.The positive charge of a shampoo is the positive charge of an aerial or a ferry.The negative charge is your conditioner.And the negative charge is your fabric conditioner.
That's why if you don't use fabric conditioner, your skirts stick to your tights.Stiff, yeah. So, I mean, there's science.
There's science in it.And I smelt great.It was like the best leave-in ever.
What about skin?Anything particularly that you remember from being young around skin care?Because people who are into hair care generally will also take care of their skin.
Yeah.Yeah.See, my mum wasn't big into skin care, but I just remember her taking me to the body shop. and they did like a cucumber, I think I just had like a cucumber toner, but I felt like the girl.It was like with my compact.Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I don't, I just, that cucumber smell is like really nostalgic to me.But yeah, she, my mum wasn't actually big on skin.Like she would wash her face with a bar of Dove or something.I mean, her skin was great, but.And is she now?Is she more into it now?
She's that person that will be like, oh, what can I do?I'm looking old.And then I'll try and help her and then the routine won't last.And oh, it doesn't matter, I'm getting old anyway.
Yeah, exactly.That's my mum to a T. When did you get into skincare or makeup?Like, when did you go, oh, beauty is a thing?Well, what's interesting is it definitely wasn't as young as my daughter.Thank you, TikTok.Yeah, exactly.Thanks, TikTok.
I think probably about 13. And I don't know if that was perhaps a little sooner than my school friends, because I was in S Club Juniors, so I was kind of around dressing rooms, and I was like, wow, makeup.
And because my mom wasn't that fussed by it, when people were, I was in.I found it so exciting.So I'd say probably about 13, I had my little toner, a little moisturizer.
And yeah, I just, but I instantly, I just was obsessed with like packaging and walking into a shop and smelling the fragrance on certain products.And yeah, that's like the way to my heart.
When did you get into, when did you sort of discover high-end skincare and be like, oh, I could be bougie?High-end skincare.When the Saturdays happened and you sort of were more.
Yeah, when I earned my own money.And I was like, I'm still sort of living at home.And it feels a bit more disposable income then, doesn't it?But I've got some spare cash.I've got a bit of spare cash.
And I'm going to go to Space NK, thank you.
Oh, they're gonna, Ginny's gonna love you.Ginny's gonna be like, cha-ching.
If Space NK haven't had a mention in every single pod because of, just because of the people we're talking to, and invariably it's people I know and friends, and that's where, you know.
That is like, Space NK has always been like, to me, they're like, wow, okay, I'm gonna treat myself to a bit of skincare.And you know, and I couldn't really afford like, you know,
A lot of it is super bougie, but like, I'm just going to get one lip balm.I'd be going to Space NK.That's the way my brain works.I'm like, I've got this much money.I'm not going to go somewhere else.I could have had a whole regime.
I wanted the experience.I just bought the smallest thing in the shop.
I want the experience.Thank you so much.
But my love for product is just, you know, that's, I mean, every time I go, I might as well remortgage my house with the products I love.And then- What's your current skincare routine?Current, I love Sarah Chapman.I like the balm.
I like anything balmy to take my makeup off.So I do that first.And that's one that I'm using at the minute.And I just kind of like that there's a balm in a pump.So I use that first.And then I'll use, at the minute I was, Is this a thing, by the way?
You'll know the answer here.I'm sure you will.When I'm ovulating, sorry everyone for the room, my skin freaks out more than it does when I'm actually on.Would that make sense?
Your hormones are surging.
Right, okay, so yeah, that would make sense.So I then use SkinCeuticals, the Blemish, the clear one in the tube, wash. And then I'll use like a brightening lotion, like a toner, Illumia.
And then I will use like, depending on if it's morning or night, like a vitamin C, a retinol, but only a couple of times a week.And then like a rich moisturizer.But I don't really like to put moisturizer on at night. And I don't know why.
I feel like it doesn't react to me very well.I prefer it in the day.If I sleep in a moisturiser, I feel like I wake up and I don't love it.I don't know why.Maybe it's the wrong moisturiser.Maybe.Maybe.Maybe. Maybe it is.
I feel like that's when I wake up with a little bump if I've slept in something.
Maybe it's too heavy.Maybe.What would you, if your bathroom cabinets on fire, including makeup, like what's your kind of first thing that comes into your head?Like, okay, I'm going to be really annoyed if I lose this, if I don't have this on me.
Or you lose your handbag in a cab and you're like, oh my God, I've lost my.
Oh, I have to bum all day.I'm like, that's my thing.If I'm, I don't mind.
You're not the first to say lip balm.Really?
Yeah.I don't mind being, You know, like, I don't mind being dewy.I love, actually, well, everyone doesn't mind being dewy, do they?But even if I'm a bit shiny, I prefer to look like that rather than have dry lips.
I wouldn't reach for a powder or anything first.It would always be, I love, Sisley have got like a tinted, you are bougie. I am, aren't I?I know.I know.I love it too much.The problem is, right, is I get my makeup done for work.
And that's where I say I end up Rima.Every time I get my face done, if she uses something that I love, I keep thinking about it.And then that's what I'll invest in.That's what you're going for.But they last forever.And I just literally... Yeah.
Number 15.Like I've got a little tint to it.
How do you take what you're already doing day to day and then go, I'm going to start another business.Because when I last saw you, you were just about to launch and you looked beautifully frazzled.So you went out, we were doing Stylist Live.
It's like, real recognises real.She's made an effort, but she's absolutely frazzled.You went out and you were like. I'm Rochelle.But in the green room you were like... So tell us about the newer brand.
So I actively made this decision a few years ago.
To have no peace and quiet.
To have no life.When I left my previous management, who are great, I felt that I could look after myself and I was kind of tired of being told by a middle-aged man what he thought could be a great idea for me.Sips tea.
Because I just, I'm not a bit of technology that's gonna keep coming up with a new software update.I know in my bones what is good for me and what I think is a great idea and I'm kind of, I felt like at a point where I was ready to run with that.
And I've been advised by some of the best in the industry over the years.And I'm so thankful for every lesson that they've taught me along the way.Like, I'm really curious as a person.
So like, I've always been the person that will read contracts and want to find out why we don't let a brand, you know, put a big spend behind this or we pull back.Like, I'm so curious and I'll like pick things apart.
And I just felt like, do you know what?I think I'm ready to, If someone wants to work with me, I want them to be able to pick up the phone.
It's not a big corporate firm that they're going to have to go through lots of different people to find out if I want to do it.I want them to go, Rosh, is this for you?
And me go, yeah, or no, don't waste their time and work up a deal for months when I actually would never do that.So I went on my own.And then from that day forward, I just made a real conscious effort to
I only want to do stuff that I've authentically believe.And do you know what?It's so funny.I did this test with myself.
If I was interviewing myself on this morning, you know, people come and they promote their book or they promote the TV show they're working on.If I could sit there and be like, right, authentically me, I love this.And this is why I'm happy about it.
And this is why I'm passionate. And if I can't do that, I'm out.So that's kind of where, that's how I started to really scope out jobs and things I wanted, whether or not I could sell it on the sofa.
So I'd almost like pretend that I was in an interview and I'd be like, nah, I don't believe you.
I don't believe it, I don't know.So you clearly love matcha?
I love matcha so much.And that's when I was like, do you know what?It's kind of, it's a bit of a rogue, you know, idea for a celebrity.I know, when you said matcha, I went, what?
It's not a fragrance or it's not something that's a little bit more obvious, but it's something that I'm really bloody passionate about.Something that I love and something that I know that I could promote Because it's so part of my routine anyway.
And it started as a passion project with a friend of mine, Bryony, who is an incredible Pilates instructor.And we kind of would do class together and then grab a matcha.That became our thing.
And we would always send each other new links and a matcha bar that we found that was supposed to be great. There was just nothing that was like a high grade ceremonial matcha that's for the girlies, that's aesthetically pleasing, that is accessible.
So that's where the idea was born.And it was genuinely, it wasn't supposed to be like a fully fledged business.It was supposed to be like a passion project.But being the way I am, and Briony's equally the same actually,
I just got really into it and was like, no, this could be great.This could be amazing.
And what are you going to expand it into?Because, no, what are you going to expand it into?Because you could do so much more than just... Yes.
So this year it's going to expand and we're going to start that by rolling out to different places, which I can't mention yet.But as a brand, it's going to expand too. which our whole ethos has really become elevating your daily rituals.
And that's kind of the purpose of the brand.
That can take you anywhere, couldn't it?
Which can take you anywhere.And that's the beauty of starting something and it being in its infancy is actually that, gosh, what about this?
And what, you know, and that's, yeah.And what about My Little Coco?What's next for that? Global domination.Do you know what I think you are?I think you're the British Jessica Alba.Oh my gosh, that is the biggest compliment ever.
Although she's just sold Honest, isn't she?And I'm gutted because my favourite blush is from Honest.
I think she's, she probably just left now, but she did sell, she got a big chunk when they sold.Yeah.Good, good for you, honey.You're doing great.
I just really hope they don't discontinue coral peach because it's the best blush ever.Selfishly.Um, what's next?We are this summer we launch, um, a bigger kids range, which actually my daughter has been front and center.
Big.So she, so basically there's this whole, and you'll know better than anyone, this TikTok generation, which they're calling the Sephora kids, aren't they?Which my 11 year old and her friends really fall into.
And asking me to buy retinol and hyaluronic acid.
You're like, sit down, babe.
I'm like, okay, we need a chat here. And the focus on skincare, I love that it promotes that real independence and the self-care, I'm for that.But the focus on it, to me, is really alarming at that age.So I kind of really...
I was like, why don't I give you a project?Like, you're lucky.Like, mommy has access to this, that, and the other.Why don't we make something that you think you and your friends would absolutely love?
And then, you know, and the bonus for me is that I've got like this incredible focus group that's living under my roof.And also I think,
that baby brands and child-centric brands are doing the kids and parents a disservice if they now don't want to shop in that aisle.They want to go around the corner.They want to be in the big aisle.
The drunk elephant, and the this, that, and the other. So I'm like, why are we not keeping hold of that audience?Because I've seen, you know, I've got three kids and we're all at very, you know, different ages.We're losing that customer.
But I'm still worried about what my 10, 11 year old is putting on their skin.
They don't need all those actives, they don't need those actives.Yeah.
So for me, I'm like, why don't we do, and even like, The body, you know, they're soldiers and heroes of the world, which I love, and I've used that for years, the creams and the, but they're sort of focused on that too.
So it's not just skincare, it's body too, and things that are maybe a bit too rich for them or so on and so forth.So I said to her, why don't we have this project where you get to,
developer range, how would it look, what sort of things would you want if you were going to do body, you know, you don't want to use the same products, I get it now, even though I'm like, use my little coco forever.
You don't want to use the same as your three year old brother, I totally get that. You're having a shower.And I kind of want to send her up to the shower when I'm doing dinner, knowing that she's all right and, you know, she's doing her own thing.
So she's kind of developed this range, which I'm so proud of.And I'm proud of her.She's like, she pitched it to Boots.It was the cutest thing you've ever seen.Like, I was actually embarrassed.Like, my eyes were watering in the meeting.
And she's so sort of passionate about it.I mean, mind you, she's not taking her own legal calls.She kind of drops the ball there.She's like, I'll do the fun priest.She's basically living the life I want to live.
You're providing that for her.Yeah, exactly.But it's kind of, I mean, it's packaged beautifully.It's called Coco Hills.It's all sort of based of an LA kind of Cali vibe.And I just wanted to like present parents a range that's like, try this.
Your kids are gonna love it.
You know you can trust it.
Without checking an app.Without checking an app.
Not the Skin Rocks app, by the way, which is available and free and science-based.You should get it.But there are other apps out there that are... I mean, every day it's causing me misery.Every day.I'm like, what have they done?
Put Spend behind themselves?Why is suddenly everyone aware of them?
Yeah.Well, I think there is a lot of that.And I think it's really weird because it's this scaremongering sort of culture.Selling through fear.Selling through fear.And you're right, that nail on the head, that's exactly what it is.And I think
putting certain ingredients on an app, which, you know, can appear super alarming if you don't know the purpose for the ingredient, the percentage that's in the product.Context.Context.Percentages.Key.
And I think if you're going to, I mean, a lot of these apps, I don't know who bodies them, if it's just a team of web developers, which is scary because then there's no scientific, evidence there.
I don't know the ins and outs of how they work, but I think there's a real, it takes one person to share it online, to scare somebody.
I watched something the other day that basically said that Sudocrem is killing us, you know, a product that's been on the shelf and we've used on our babies for like so many years.
I'm like, if you don't, I know the context because I work in that world.
If you don't and you're just trying to do the best thing for your kids, you're going to be scared.And I said at a CEW meeting a couple of weeks ago, I still spoke and said, I think what our industry has done to pregnant women is unforgivable.
We have made them terrified of using anything when we know more than anyone, the people in the room know more than anything, what is safe.
And how much red tape like brands like us, and particularly for babies like that doesn't, if it's in your trusted retailer, a boot or a grocer or however that will look paperwork that checks, they can't house a brand that has something that's toxic.
And you know, there are ingredients that maybe people don't have a knowledge of, you know, and I think that's what the problem is.And they say, you know, you wouldn't swim in a swimming pool full of that ingredient.
But if the maximum you're allowed is 1%, it's a very different story.And that might be the fact that it's a preservative or, you know, and we've chosen to use preservatives, of course, because you don't want- You don't want to go green.
E. coli on your kids.You know, that's not what this is for. And you know, I didn't use sulfates and I didn't use parabens.
And that was a decision I chose because sulfates are known to be, I'm not saying that they're the devil's work, but they're known to be irritating.And if sensitive skin and kids.
So, you know, it's just, but it's the background and anything without context can appear really scary.And also the promotion that brands, It's like this whole clean culture, isn't it?
And I know I'm going to sort of say- Well, I was going to say, you're not going to call the New Range clean, are you?
Because I can feel myself scratching my head.
No, do you know what?I just think that is, I mean, so misleading in terms of a claim and a claim that's really like, unless my little cocoa, we use coconut oil.That's what the brand was based around, right?
The fact that every product has organic coconut oil in it.Right.But I can't say that that is clean because I'm not
cracking up a coconut and pouring it onto your skin, because it has to go through barriers and have preservatives so that that doesn't- It has to go through a process so that your skin won't just let it roll off like water.
So I think that is really misleading.So when brands lead with that, I'm instantly out as a person.Out.Tap.Me.
Done.Because I know how misleading that is.I'm like, well, what else are you misleading people with?You know, that's where my brain goes.But that's because I know.But the me,
six years ago, when I didn't know so much, I probably would have seen it and gone, oh my gosh, I can't use Pseudochrome anymore on my baby.It's really scary.
And I get asked all the time by well-meaning people, you know, they send me reels on Insta or on TikTok, and it's just, what do you think of this?What do you think of this?I can't keep responding.
You know what I'm going to think of it, so please don't ask me, because you know, you know my stance.If you follow me for longer than five minutes, you know I'm going to go, they're talking shite.Please relax.Don't worry.You know, and it's just,
And the reports that, like, a brand would have to have, and I can only compare it to my own, and I'm sure yours would be the same.You know, the toxicologists have, you know, the board of, what's the one?It's like, SCS.SCS.
I mean, there's just everything.You have to have pack testing, stability testing, everything.And we do extra patch tests that are our sensitive skin panel.You know, the list is endless.And I just think it's,
It's a scary world, but I do think we are in that world.I think social media is, you know, as you can debunk a lot of stuff, which I know that you do, but I think you have to debunk stuff that's become something because of social media.
Yeah.So it's a vicious circle.
Somebody's found the kind of report in the depths of the Internet that actually that was probably sponsored by someone who can benefit financially.
Yeah.Report saying what it says.
I know, that's the thing with some of those apps, is that actually brands can pay to have a good rating, which I suppose tells you a lot you need to know, doesn't it?Not with us.Not with you, girl.You've got no chance.
So you've got a busy year ahead?
Yes. I say that with, not much going on.Do you know what?I've cut the big, I've got a big launch in the summer.And then after- In what, a brand or like telework or something else?
As in like the summer is quite big for Cloudera in terms of like different partners that we're, not products just yet, but partners that we're now sort of rolling out with.Alaya's big range also drops in June, which is big for the brand.
And then after that, I've kept the rest of the year, It was like, I just want to sort of elevate everything I have.You know, I don't want to do another new, another this.I just want to sort of really get behind everything equally.
So that's kind of my, yeah, ethos for the rest of the year.
You know you're going to start something else the minute July comes around.
I just don't.Don't put ideas into my head.
I'm going to send you pictures of Jessica Raub and going, there she is.
She's got the right idea now, though.
She has now.She's like, I'm out.I'm done.I've done my time.
I'm out.Put me on my yacht somewhere.
Well, here's to a yacht in a few years time.Oh, gosh.Further down the road.I'll borrow yours.Don't worry about that, mate.I'll be dead by then.
Thank you so much for joining us and thanks for, I love hearing the, anything that's vaguely entrepreneurial I'm like.Me too, me too.
I'm in, I'm in.And I just quite like, I like to know that when I talk to people in the same realm and in the same world that we're all equally as tired.We're equally winging it.
We're winging it and we're just sort of
White-knuckling it, I described last week.I was like, I'm white-knuckling this week.I can't do it.I'm exhausted.Shut your eyes and hope for the best.Yeah, you're like, everything will be fine.What could possibly go wrong?
And then your alarm goes off three minutes later, you're like, did I sleep?Yeah, no.No, I didn't.I don't think so.Well, I will watch.Watch with wonder and look forward to what you're launching.
Me too.Thank you.Thank you so much.Thank you very much.
You can hear much more from our chat this Wednesday, so make sure you tune in.Send your questions to pod at carolinehirons.com.Until then, I'm glad we had this chat.New episodes are available every Monday and Wednesday.
Follow or subscribe now on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.Glad We Had This Chat is produced by Waterwall Media.
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