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What is up everybody?Welcome back to capital university, the number one business podcast in the world.If you guys are watching on YouTube, don't forget to like comment and subscribe.
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Our guest today is Rich Kleiman.He's a partner at 35 Ventures.He is Kevin Durant's manager.He's basically in and about everything in culture and sports and business.
He's got a podcast where he interviews all kinds of great people called The Boardroom.Anything that kind of happens at that intersection of culture, sports, and business, Rich is always in, got his hands involved.So we hope you guys enjoy this.
He dropped a bunch of great knowledge on us and let's get started now. All right, Rich, maybe let's just start with kind of your story.
Obviously, everyone knows you for a lot of the work you do now, but where'd you grow up and how did you kind of get into the business?
Grew up in New York City, was an obsessed sports fan, but I didn't do very well in school and left college early.Knew I wanted to be somebody.I'm not quite sure what that was, but I wanted to be somebody.
Ended up in the music business and managed a handful of artists.I was had a studio in Soho with Mark Ronson and Amy Winehouse, recorded Back to Black there.We had incredible, incredible times, early 2000s.
Then I got to meet Jay-Z, and obviously that changed my life.I produced his documentary, Fade to Black, and then went to work at Roc Nation as a music manager for years.
And I then wanted to pull back to sports, and Jay was starting a sports agency, so he let me be a part of launching that.And I had known Kevin Durant for a long time.So he was one of the first clients at Roc Nation.
And after a few years at Roc Nation, it's timing in life.For us, the two of us both, like I said before, wanted to be somebody when it came to business.And he was already somebody in the world.
I had built a really nice career and I was successful, but I wasn't where I thought I wanted to be.And I didn't like the feeling of thinking I had a ceiling.And then Kevin and I started 35 Ventures. Now I've been doing that for five years.
So you started off in music management?
Yeah, I mean, actually, a friend of mine sold this show, The Life, that was on ESPN in 2000.We just celebrated the 20-year anniversary of it.
And it was basically just behind the scenes of athletes, but this was pre-internet, really, or pre-social media, for sure.And they needed a music supervisor.So my only way on the show was to be the music supervisor, and I hustled.
met people in New York that had their own studio, had their own band or producer.And I said, listen, I'll get you on TV and ESPN.Yeah, give me your music.And I built this catalog up of unsigned artists.Next thing I knew I was managing musicians.
So how did you go from music management to managing one of the biggest names in sports?
While I was managing artists and music, it was the same thing that I loved.
I loved being a part of the process of taking somebody that was so gifted, so cool, so talented, and being able to get that skill in front of as many people as possible, and be able to help their vision and execute it, and to be a part of it, and to make a name for myself.
And I think that what I got from the energy in the music business was awesome, but it wasn't what I was passionate about, right?
So when I ultimately said to myself, I got to be in sports, it wasn't how do I get there as much as I'm going to really make a conscious effort to change my thinking in life.
And fortunately, Jay-Z is a leader in the way that when someone who's been a music manager comes to them and says, I want to stop everything and be in sports and they say, all right, let's do this.
Because even though he could do everything and he owned the whole business where I was at in my career, I still had to earn my chops and I had to let go of a lot that I had built in music, but I knew it was worth it.
And then when I got into sports, it was like, You know, I really felt like I had been speaking that language from the day I was born.
I knew everything about the world of sports now, coupled with the lessons I had learned from managing talent and music, and I was like, now I'm ready.Like, now I'm ready to really do this.And then, you know, again, like I said, timing is everything.
Kevin was looking for a change in his career. Jay-Z is somebody that, you know, everybody in the NBA and everybody, period, look up to in terms of how he built this business.So, you know, that was a good draw for Kevin.
And then having me there, it all was the right move for him.
So what made you so passionate about the sports content world?
Sports content for me at this point is just like, I like storytelling.I like storytelling.If I'm sitting on a pod with you, I like storytelling.If I'm just at home with my family or with a group of friends and,
You know, when you have the ability and you are able to build your business up to a certain point where you can start to do things and kind of control. the journey of it.
And when it comes to creating stories now we're not relying on it's on our core business to make documentaries or to make a scripted series.But when we find a story that we're really passionate about then we go and we do it.
You know as it relates to boardroom that's a brand that I think that we built that's more than just content.And it's something that embodies our whole group.It embodies the state of like the sports world now.
So, you know, it's usually all driven by just something that I'm passionate about or Kevin's passionate about that we want to tell a story about.
Rich, when you kind of think through the people that you've surrounded yourself with, whether it was Jay-Z, Kevin Durant, a plethora of folks you have kind of chalked through on the podcast that you've got, like, how do you think about the impact they've had?
Do you intentionally go out and say like, yo, there's that person that I want to make sure they're in my circle, or do these things kind of naturally happen and kind of winners gravitate towards winners and
and that's how you built this network of just amazing successful people?
That's a good question and I appreciate it because I have consciously built a network my whole life, that's for sure.It wasn't always like famous people, you know, like it was people that I was enamored by, people that I felt
that like I gravitated towards who were successful and regarded in what they did.It happened to be that I love sports.
And then from being in sports, I got into music and I was able to really be exposed to some of these like superstars of the world, the hip hop.And when I'm around people in general, I just don't, I'm the same.
And I think that when you get honesty and authenticity for people that are in these really high positions of,
power and you act normal like it sounds stupid to like think that that's like something you have to consciously think about but you know that's how celebrity is and that's how success is made out to be in our society that when people get a chance to be in the rooms but they don't know how to act
And, like, I just don't get thrown off by stuff like that.I never have.You know, and then because of that, if I'm in a room, like, why would I not go talk to, like, what else?What am I doing here?You know, that's always been kind of my attitude, so.
Wait, long last thing.I met my wife really young. So while everybody was out chasing girls, to be honest with you, I was in the party.Like I was, I've been partying.
I partied as hard as anyone, but when I was doing it, I was doing it with my wife most of the time.So I wasn't looking for girls.So if I'm out, people saw me having a good time.My wife was cool as shit.And we went out and met people.
So it was kind of easy from that standpoint.
That is goals.I wish my girlfriend would, would party with me.She's not really the part.
Listen, what's, what's your idea?The girl does, but you can't party with them forever.You do have to sleep.You do have to slow that part down.
Yeah, no, I've tried.I actually have like not partied a lot recently, which is really good for me, especially with my brand party animal university.But what's your ideal relationship with like a business partner?
Like what do you, what do you look for in how has Kevin been energy, energy, just energy, because that might not be my answer at every point in my life, but I now know it's energy.
So it's like I could, you know, when I met Joe, for instance, and you, and we were talking like the energy was your good.So like, we didn't come up with any way to work together.We didn't even think about saying, how are we going to work together?
Cause when you feel that energy, you're just like, all right, We'll figure this out.His name will keep coming up.My name will keep coming up.We'll land on something.And good people act like that.
And then when you realize, especially if you don't get it now, after what's happened the last nine months, that you can have this insane drive to get what you want. and be nice to people.
Like you can have an insane drive to get what you want and not fuck people over.And when I really realized that I'm like, yo, I'm just going to be, I could be as successful as anybody and be nice, straight up and fair.
Like, because you can't stress the little things and it's like, what is it worth? You know, for me, like, if the energy's bad, I'm out, period.
So, if we had Kevin here right now, what's the thing that he would say he busts your balls about the most?And then, in reverse, what's the thing you give him the hardest time about?
Well, simple, he would just say that, Rich, just tell me to chill.Like, just straight up chill out, because I definitely talk about work more now than ever.And during the pandemic, I think I just, like,
put everything into it, like family work, family work.So because of that, my brain is wired like that.Like, I'm just like, you're not gonna be able to turn me off.Like, it's just the way it is.
Or I'll just talk to you about my kids, but no one wants to hear about your other people's kids.So sometimes Kevin will just be like, chill, like chill bro, relax, relax, it's all good.But aside from that, like we really are
lock and step, because we don't put this serious tone on anything.So if we disagree, it's not going to get so serious, because what are we going to disagree over?We don't see it like life or death.
So because we don't see it that way, we just talk through it and figure it out.I think what I would say with him, he's from a generation that thinks it's OK to not respond to texts, but I'm supposed to understand that that is what it is.
I'm like, I just don't get that. Because I'm consciously, if I don't respond to someone's text, I'm consciously not responding.And I think maybe either he's consciously not responding,
Or he doesn't pay as much attention to it as I think he should because, you know, it's at this point in the world, if you don't respond to someone's text, it's like you walk right by them in the street.That's how I look at it.
What's the craziest business deal you've ever done?When Kevin's sneaker deal was renegotiated and I was at Roc Nation and I had never really been involved with a deal, to be honest, at that level, you know, I had been in the similar
parties but the level was never that high and I was seeing like really shrewd and really intense
negotiating and leveraging and, you know, and ultimately like communication and figuring out like how crucial that is at all levels of deal making, no matter the size, like nothing's different because of that.
So for me, it was really like, I don't think I learned more on any one particular deal about things like life, everything that I did just like being a part of that.
I think I have, like when I first started social media and I first started getting my checks, I think the first pair of shoes I bought were, were Katie's smart, man.I was wondering how you're welcome for that, by the way.No, I'm kidding.
But when you're looking for investment or when you're investing in something, what do you actually typically look for?
Well, we invest in earlier stages.
So and a benefit of my network, which I think is a strategy in our investing, is that the filter of deals that we see is really good because we've been able to build up a trusting flow of deals for people that respect how Kevin and I invest.
So from there, it's kind of like What is the company.What are they doing.Do we get it.Like really get it.Do we understand it.Like can we see it and vision it.Wrap our head around it.It doesn't mean that we are the arbiters of what's going to work.
But if that doesn't pass a test right off the bat can't even look at it.And then again it's like the energy and the relationship with the founders when we speak.And I like to talk to them not about like
the nuts and bolts of a deck, but just kind of speak like we're out for a drink and I'm trying to learn about their business and how they're going to make money.
And then, you know, I mean, I guess those would be the big test, because once I got past that, you're not negotiating at that level, you know, at those deals.Like, you're just, you're investing it with the rounding.
So, and we're pretty clear that every time we invest, which, you know, you'll get to at some point too, is, yeah, I'm investing as Bryce Hall, but you can't, it's not my face.
But in the beginning, you may have to use a little bit of what is your brand value in bringing it to the deal.Then you prove to that company, hey, you know what?Yeah, maybe I shouldn't stand in front of it this time.
These are the eight people that you should be talking to, and this is the way you should be marketing your product.Then the next deal, you say, look, I don't even want to talk about getting in front of it anymore.I just work behind the scenes.
So that's kind of like where we've evolved from, where they already know you're not signing a deal with Kevin because we put money in.Fundamentally, I always remind these companies that Kevin's giving you his money.What do you mean?
Why do we have to do anything?So I think that if the energy and the idea connect, then that's kind of like our first pass.
When you guys think about any of the mistakes you've made investing, whether something didn't work out because of the founders or something because of the decision-making you guys made, what are those one or two things you look back on, you're like, bam, we learned a lesson on that one and now we know for next time to kind of look out for?
And really from a thought process of as Bryce starts looking at deals, what are some of the things that you guys kind of learned the lesson and you could pass on to him to look for in deals?
I would probably ask that question to someone that had been investing longer than me because and vice versa, right?Like, just all kind of life experiences with it.So, you know, I have, what, a four-year head start on Bryce.
However, what I will say is, is, like, the ones that we've missed is not for any crazy reason that I wasn't focused.Like, I didn't lock in to the point where I should have, because the way I'm doing it is the same every time.
I'm not going to be like, oh, well, maybe if I took notes, then I wouldn't have missed it, because I'm never going to take notes.
Or like, well, maybe if I had spoken to seven other people that spoke to him and got references, I wouldn't have missed it.Nah, I know that's not the case, because that's never going to happen either.
So quite simply, I didn't lock in enough, and that's going to happen.And I try not to beat myself up about it.Kevin always tells me to relax, not worry about it, because I'm always like, bro, I cannot believe we fucking didn't invest.
You can't do all the things that we're doing.This is what I always say.That's why I feel sometimes guilty when someone refers to me as an investor because I've consciously chosen to do all these things. I manage Kevin first and foremost.
And with that, I help run his foundation.So when I'm doing that, I wear a completely different hat on how I think about business.And then there's a million components in his business, which you can imagine.
Then I have our media company boardroom, our investment portfolio.And I'm saying, all right, well, if I miss a few deals, I mean, that's what I got to accept. Like, I'm not a full-time venture capitalist.
So, you know, I think a lot sometimes, should I be building up and ramping up?But it all happened in due time, man.It works itself out.
I love it.Let's talk real quick before we let you go.One of the things I like about you and Kevin is we've done a number of deals.
We didn't talk about them, but we end up on the same cap tables, which means that you guys are smart, because I'm smart, so two smart people end up on the same cap table, obviously. on Golden Auction.
Talk a little bit about that one and kind of what got you guys excited.
I look also at investing as an opportunity to get a seat at the table.And when I see industries that are taking off and I see areas of the sports world all over business, but I know that I'm going to have my hand in it in some way.
So we built a platform in boardroom that is so easily transferable to all of these different areas, crypto, cannabis, media, trading cards, all of it.So as soon as that area becomes available, there's a few ways we can participate.
I can start creating content and collaborating. And that's what we are doing with Ken, with a handful of other creators, our own creators, building content.And we can be investors.
So by investing now, I am in the world, I'm speaking to these companies, I'm seeing how... They are the best at what they do in that world.I have an opportunity to make money.I have an opportunity to learn, to partner.
So Ken had been doing it as long as anyone.He's one of the OGs in the game.And when the opportunity presented itself, it was obviously like, now you have these pillars of, okay, are you exposed in trading cards at all?Yeah, I'm in these companies.
And I'm not going to get in an investment and not be a mutually beneficial investor.So we're going to be working together.So that was a no-brainer for me.
And that's probably why you and I are in so many of the same deals, because it's not the check size, but this becomes part of your network.This becomes part of your business now. And that's how you have to look at it.
Completely agree.Last question for me, and then Bryce, you take us home, is if you were 21 again, Rich, what do you wish you knew that you know now that would have saved you a lot of hate?
It's just going to be all right.Just chill out.I thought the same way that I do now back then.And that's why I have friends that are in their 20s, because I'm youthful.I can talk to anybody at any age.But I was stressed.
I was thinking about everything.I was thinking about who was going to be where I was, what I wasn't going to, who was at what party, a fucking, that is a miserable way to live.And I wish I just chilled out.
You know, I just, I wish I honestly, I don't, I wish I smoked more weed back then.
Well, I'm doing enough of that.And I'm making up for it now.Awesome.Thank you so much. Thank you for coming on the podcast, man.
Let me get that video for my girls, bro.Before we let you go, where can people go and listen to your podcast?
Thank you for asking about that.Well, all of our boardroom content is at boardroom.tv, the boardroom.tv.
So that's Kevin's podcast, my podcast, our video series, our newsletter articles, but obviously you can go to Apple, Spotify, and it's called out of office. And it's me and Gianni Harrell.We have a great time.We get incredible guests.
I don't think as many people listen to us as people like you guys, but we have good guests.
It is very good.I've listened to a couple of them.I like it.Thank you.We got to get you the energy that you say that you got to chill out.You got to bring it on the podcast, get people real excited. Oh, you think I go a little too mellow on the pod?
I'm saying that you're high energy all the time, but if you put it super high energy, then, you know, maybe the ratings go up.Who knows?
And I would be Richie V. I wouldn't be Rich Clymer.That wouldn't be me.
I love it.All right, man.
Listen, thank you so much for doing this.All right, guys.Thank you.Appreciate it.All right.Thank you guys so much for watching the podcast.Again, if you're watching YouTube, don't forget to like comment and subscribe.
If you're listening on Apple podcasts, you guys already know what to do.We'll see you guys next time.Capital University out.
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