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And the author, Jennifer Probst, is the New York Times, USA Today, and Wall Street Journal bestselling author of over 50 books in contemporary romance fiction.
Book of the Month can be read as a standalone book and is available in e-book, print, and audio book.Origins is hosted by actress Kush Jumbo.It's a conversation about guests' origins.
Guests include David Schwimmer, Anna Wintour, and Golda Rochevelle, a.k.a.the queen on Bridgerton, who I got to meet once and she's amazing.
Origins is hosted by Kush Jumbo, an actress who you might recognize from The Good Wife, The Good Fight, or Criminal Record.That's on Apple TV.Or even from the West End, where she's currently starring as Lady Macbeth opposite David Tennant's Macbeth.
Origins is the show where the biggest names in entertainment tell her the stories, the anecdotes, and the big breaks that made them who they are today.
You might know him as Ross Geller and Friends, but what you may not know is that he worked in an illegal call center when he was 17 by accident and was a roller skating waiter making tips by lining up people's kids and jumping over them.
Honey, that would never happen in 2024 because you would get sued, but I'm glad that that was a different time.Find out all about these gorgeous people's stories.You don't want to miss it.So check out Origins. Hey, curious people.
Welcome to Pretty Curious, our podcast on all things beauty.I'm Jonathan Van Ness.You guys, this is such an exciting episode.I can't stand it.And you know, when I start to sing on the beginning of an episode, it's really exciting.
This week, we're going to Oz, baby.It's Wicked season.Our whole queer lives have been leading up to the movie Wicked.This is the moment that everyone's been waiting for and not to go out there and just be like,
We're literally giving you Barbara Walters of gits, of interview gits this week.Team Getting Curious has done it again.
Today, we're talking to the hair, makeup, and prosthetics designer from Wicked, the one, the only, the Oscar-winning artist, Frances Hannan, to learn all about how she brought the stage musical and this new interpretation of the magical land of Oz to life.
This recording was literally over two hours.Frances is a wealth of information.With that said, We're going to go right into the conversation today because we really couldn't edit much out of this conversation because it was too riveting and too good.
like my jaws down on the ground because just Francis is an absolute legend.So we're foregoing our normal intro because this is just a really good episode.And I'll tell you about my beauty pics of the week next week.
Although, just stand by for the beginning of this episode because you may have an idea of what our beauty review is going to be next week because mama just got something in the mail.But you'll see what that is in a minute.
Okay, so let's get to our guest bio.
Famous in the entertainment industry for her ability to transform any face, makeup and hair designer Frances Hannan first entered the realm of film and TV with a job working on the British sketch comedy series The Kenny Everett Television Show on the BBC from 1981 to 88.
Cut to her ongoing collaboration with Wes Anderson, she began with 1998's Rushmore.
Hannon quickly became one of the most sought-after makeup and hair designers in Hollywood, loved and appreciated by directors and actors alike for her rigorous research.
She won an Oscar for her work on Wes Anderson's The Grand Budapest Hotel and has worked on major blockbusters like World War Z, Indiana Jones, and The Dial of Destiny, and most recently, Wicked.
But you guys, that literally scratches the surface of her resume.It's really storied and very, like, Frances is major.And we kind of can't believe that we got her.So now, without any further ado, let's get to our conversation with Frances Hannon.
Frances, we are so excited that you're here.We can't stand it.And I could not have even planned this better if I had tried.But you'll never guess what came in the mail this morning.
My Wicked Makeup PR Box!I'm on the list!I got on the fucking list!I'm so happy!Look at it, you guys!It's gorgeous!It's my very own fucking R.E.M.Wicked Makeup Beauty Box!Kaboodle!I'm never gonna be the same!
Even though the internet tried to betray us this morning, Frances, this internet tried to come between us, honey.But the universe said, no.Frances and Jonathan will bond.We are going to have this wicked makeup box.
And that's what happened to me this morning.And I'm just so happy you're here.How are you?I'm very well.How are you, Jonathan?Good.Now, are you joining us from where your accent precedes you?Or is it, are you like stateside?
Where are you joining us from today?I'm joining you from London. My husband's British too, Frances.Oh, congrats.I know, I'm so lucky.He's from Essex.
I hope.Maybe I'll see you over here one day, Jonathan, then.
I would love to get to see you in real life.I can't even handle your prowess.I mean, we had just told everyone right before you joined about your bio and your work is just, I mean, your resume is incredible.Your career is storied.
And I just, I look up to your work.I actually would say, I would go so far as to say that I revere your work and I'm just, it's such an honor that you're here.
Um, but get in this, this was originally a question that came later, but this PR box just has me totally beside myself.Where were you, Frances, when you found out that you booked Wicked?
I was sitting in my home, having spoken with John Chu and Mark Platt the night before at my friend, the producer's house, Joan Schneider.And we, I was so excited when I heard I'd got it.But I kind of
I don't know what I'd have done if I hadn't, Jonathan.I would have been devastated.
What was the process like?Did you have to, like, go do, like, auditions for it?Or, like, paint, like, an alphabet?Or what did you do?
God, no.I would have probably failed, Jonathan, if I had to have done it in advance.But, no, I am... I was very lucky.I worked with John Chu in the past.And I had a Zoom with John, Mark Platt, and other members of the producer side on Zoom.
on Wicked, and John Tew remembered me straight away, and I was blown away.He said something very lovely that set my heart at ease.
He said, as soon as we spoke, he said, I recognize your soothing, calming voice, he said, and that makes me feel very good.And it really made me feel very good too.And I kind of felt I was just very lucky to be talking with him again.
And the questions, I think maybe my CV says it all, but I was just so glad to be chosen because, you know, there's great people in this world, and it could have been anybody in the world, and it was me.
And I don't know for why, but it was my lucky day.
So how did you land on the perfect shade of green for Cynthia Erivo's take on the role?Like, just so many practice days?Yep.
Yep.You're absolutely right, Jonathan.So many practice days.Before I ever even met Cynthia, I started with,
getting in models of the same skin tone and trying to work on what products existed on the market and what mixes would make the right green and just never left off until we found the green.
But then I started looking at how that green's affected in all the different lights and that was the hardest thing to achieve because a darker skin tone absorbs light and whereas a paler skin tone reflects light.
So I had to work on how because so on my models on one light the green would look perfect but in the next light she'd look grey or she'd look like she had nothing on her.
So I started researching the market again and just trawling the streets and I found in a tiny little shop
a little Canadian product that had a neon base in it, and it was a green color, but just a tiny little tube like that, and it was a discontinued product.
But I brought it back, I mixed it with my ready done green, and it gave the right, it caused a reflection that was needed to stop the light absorption.So it gave me the continuous color in all different aspects of light.
And then over here, we have this wonderful alchemist called David Stoneman, and he designs makeups for you, and his company's called Makeup Online.
And he took my greens, and he took the neon base out of the little color I'd found, and he just put three drops of yellow neon into my greens, and hey bingo, it hit the spot. and we worked with that.
I got Synthia in in the very early days just for one day when it was only myself and one of my crew members was called Branka and she was working with me and we did the spray and we had no cameras at that stage.
Alice Brooks, our DP, she just photographed it And it was just a great learning curve.One day, just in the early, like, I'm going back to August, July, August, September 2022.
I'm just dying to know, Frances, what are we setting with?Is this a trade secret you are willing to spill, Frances?What do the girls need to be setting with to keep, because, what was it?
Because the skin was skinning, like, I mean, I've never seen such a beautiful green complexion, and it looks like beautiful skin.
Oh, I'm really glad you thought that, Jonathan.We didn't seal her, Jonathan, at all.
I mean, sometimes we'd use a light, just a normal sealer that we might use over a tattoo or something like that just to protect it for the day, but we couldn't seal her in because of what she had to achieve every day.So it really was just
You know, your basic, everything you know and we all do, you know, it was what the product was made of that made it hold.It wasn't what we did on top of it.And you know, in life, you must feel the same.Less is more.
So the more layers you add to somebody, the more and more you're removing them from the reality of what you want to achieve.So I'm not a great believer in primers, sealers, anti-shiners, all that.
you know, the less you use, the longer longevity, and also you have to repair.So if you seal something, and then the witch's hat rubs the surface off, you have a full-on, very serious repair.
If the witch's hat's rubbing off on your foundation or normal makeup, you can fill in that gap. And that's, that's how we have to work.
So now one other sidebar that's just coming up for me with Cynthia's makeup.
Did the stylist or like costume design ever, were they ever just like, Coral, you've got to figure out how to set this green because if it gets green on this costume, I just can't get as many of these like shirts.
Or did you figure out how to make it like totally transfer proof from the clothes?
You're so perceptive, Jonathan.You certainly know your stuff when it comes to all the practicalities of the industry, don't you?Well, I've been doing a little bit of it.
I don't have to do green makeup, but I do have to do my makeup on my own, like my makeup, and then if I'm in a cute outfit, then I just, I get it.And then I'm like, oh my God, there's all this smears all over it now.Shit.
Yeah no but I mean part of the design one can never just take into achieving the look of the character you have to take into how long you're going to take because that'll take it out of John Tuesday you know how how many hours can you have an artist in the makeup chair how many hours to clean them off at the end of the day has to be into consideration
it not transferring was very high because it wasn't just the costumes, which caused Paul, there is a limit because they cost thousands, but also transferring to the other artists.
You know, so often in the film, Ari and Cynthia are hugging each other, kissing their faces together, hands on their face.And so that was a big part of the design of the product as well.It can't just be the right green.
It can't just be the right light. It has all those other stipulations.And if you don't achieve them, you haven't succeeded.You have to achieve all those things.
So how did Cynthia get that off every day?Did she have like a gorgeous little like shower in her trailer?Did she just go through so much like cold cream?
Like I'm thinking like colds, ponds, like just like ponds, like, like, like a liquid, like, like more lotion-y remover?
Or was it?No, no, you're absolutely right.It's hot towels.It's cold cream.It's a product made especially to remove illustrated colors and everything.
Um, and she has like, she had her team of people who were getting there ready every day and they'd all be there.We also had to like, Cynthia has deep, deep pools of, of dark brown, black eyes.And we changed her eye color to green as well.
So she had a, and they were just off the shelf.It wasn't anything bespoke that was made.We tried the bespoke, but they, somehow they removed you from Cynthia just a fraction, but the off the shelf ones didn't have that effect.They're much finer.
So she had her lenses on every day.She had her, you know, she has like 30, 40 odd piercings.They were covered with a little prosthetic every day because you can't have piercings.
We wanted it to be timeless and piercings are so now, as are tattoos, every piercing, every tattoo on the whole film, nobody had anything like that so that we
kept it as as undateable and hopefully we achieve the same with the hair look as we possibly could.You know, we never won sale of that film was made in 2020. I can tell from the hair, or I can tell because she's got so many piercings.
So, I feel complete with Elphaba.I don't know how we got there.It only took me 45 minutes.I freaked out, Francis.I'm so sorry.Don't wanna, we cannot cheat Glinda.Oh, tell me.
We never mentioned something that I thought that was really lovely with Elphaba was her, how much the storyline her nails told. You know, and it's quite a... How can I not be... Yes, the story of all those nails, tell us.
Well, I mean, first of all, it started with Cynthia and what she liked in life.And you know she has these wonderful nails that, when we first met two years ago, weren't quite to the level they are now.They're really spectacular.
But it was a point of story where Cynthia wanted... She didn't want to lose that. And of course she has her own life to lead as well.So we decided to try and simplify it with Mark Platt's input, because it's very important.
We started Chiz with just matching her green skin, but looking real, like long, but super long.
And then as Cynthia, and we kept it like we thought maybe three or four looks, but Cynthia developed her alphabet, she developed her thoughts in her nails, and we added a couple of more looks to it.
But it's very much a part of her story, and it's very much something Cynthia uses in her performance. And I thought that was a lovely touch, and that truly came right with Cynthia.
I love that there was an environment to see the artist in the role and develop it.It didn't have to be this, like, stagnant thing.You can take the inspiration from what people bring to a role and make it better.And, um... enhance it.
And that's so nice, because I think a lot of times in creative spaces, like, sometimes that's not allowed to happen.And it's so nice that, and it seems like everywhere you go, that does get to happen.
And I love that you bring that and allow your artist to develop and shine with you.And that's just such a beautiful ability to have as an artist, that you facilitate that.
That's very kind of you to say.I hope I always do.I think that's your starting point, really, is what the artist brings to the table. and you hopefully enhance it.
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That's ThriveCosmetics, C-A-U-S-E-M-E-T-I-C-S.com slash curious for 20% off your first order.Origins is hosted by actress Kush Jumbo.It's a conversation about guests' origins.
Guests include David Schwimmer, Anna Wintour, and Golda Rochevelle, aka the queen on Bridgerton, who I got to meet once and she's amazing.
Origins is hosted by Cush Jumbo, an actress who you might recognize from The Good Wife, The Good Fight, or Criminal Record.That's on Apple TV.Or even from the West End, where she's currently starring as Lady Macbeth opposite David Tennant's Macbeth.
Origins is the show where the biggest names in entertainment tell her the stories, the anecdotes, and the big breaks that made them who they are today.
You might know him as Ross Geller and friends, but what you may not know is that he worked in an illegal call center when he was 17 by accident and was a roller skating waiter making tips by lining up people's kids and jumping over them.
Honey, that would never happen in 2024 because you would get sued, but I'm glad that that was a different time.Find out all about these gorgeous people's stories.You don't want to miss it.So check out Origins.
I just can't even believe that I'm having this conversation with someone who's just like on a first name basis with like Ari and Cynthia.It's like too much for my gay bones.I think I might shatter.
Um, but how, so how did your makeup tests go with her?Because obviously, I mean, Ariana founded REM, which we're huge fans of.So was that most of what you were working with when it came to Ariana's look?
And how did like, how did her makeup testing and like lighting testing and hair testing go?Is it kind of like,
but different because Elphaba's hair is a little bit more predictable, whereas, like, doesn't Glinda's hair get, like, big, small, tight, down, bun, big?Like, doesn't it go all over the place more?
We, um, well, the first wonderful thing about Ari was when she did come to the UK, um, she said straight away, in fact, she said it when we were, um, you know, speaking with each other prior to her arrival, that she didn't want to bring any part of her hair
Ari's life into the film with her.She wanted to be Galinda from the first day with people who, without bringing any influences she already had about her visuals.And of course, she's been on camera since she was a child.
So she was very, she knows everything about her own face and everything that she likes to look like and enhances and everything.So it was absolutely wonderful for somebody like me to have someone come and say,
that to you, like it's, I'm yours, do what you like.So it was, I think the main thing with her was, for me, was finding a look that kept her timeless, very important, particularly with hair, because that is so easy to date if you're not careful.
Princess-like, which Ari brings that quality to everything, in my opinion.The fact that she's nearly got brown-black hair herself and a very strong texture, was made us know that we couldn't really as much as we'd like to have used her own hair.
It wasn't going to be possible for this length of time.So we did bleach her hair constantly.It was really to keep it looking pale under her wigs, because they were so light.But we did pretty much the same with Ari in the design.
We used slightly warmer and shorter stuff for the shivs for the younger to enhance it.And then as she learned more and more about herself as a person, we went to a pair of blondes and let her hair appear longer.
But we never ever, as you'll see, we never did a bun and we never did an updo.We didn't want to go for the... ever.She's always, always a down, tough, cut back, like that, tiaras, crowns.
How did you manage that many hairdressers and makeup artists?Like, what would... Could you just take us through an example of, like, maybe pre-production? Like, a day of pre-production and a day of, like, production.
Like, was pre-production with you taking, like, hair leads and makeup leads?And then, like, would you show them how you wanted the finishing to be on, like, a principal extra?Or, like, or one of the principal artists and be like, I want it like this.
And then would they have to, like, recreate your look?And then you'd be like, okay, that's checked off.You're good to go.I just need to see this before this goes out.Or would you just show them a picture or something and then approve it?
Like, how did that process work?
It all starts with sitting down.
Once you know that you're on the right page for what John Chu wants to achieve and where you are with regards to the sets and the costumes for that, be it Emerald City, say, for example, that was a really extreme look.
We knew we wanted them to be very tall and statuesque.We knew the sets were the tallest going.We knew it was all pillars and everything was very elongated. quite an Art Deco film in it feel.
Not that we want to do Art Deco hairstyles, but all the research is done and then you sit down with your whole team.You have crowd supervisors and supervisors and coordinators and my keys, you know, for I had two major keys throughout the whole film.
He knew everything there was that I knew.And you sit down and you all discuss what would work and all the references.And then everybody puts in what they think would make it work.You know, a mesh, a metal frame, outsourcing, getting more stuff made.
The colors we did the munchkins in, that was very, you know, that had a huge amount of input on the design side from us and what Mark
Platt wanted to see and taking the original Wizard of Oz into account, what we didn't want to make it look like a fantasy.We wanted everything to look like real people and real life, not somebody with green
hair or blue hair or whatever, you know, even though Elphaba's green, that in itself, but that was always meant to be real and live in a real life.
It was never meant to be, you know, as you saw in the original film, the rainbow horse and all that stuff.But it was, so you'd sit down all together, come to the end, look of what it is and what variations you could put in it and how to achieve it.
And then my crowd supervisor Laura and her team would all go off and start making.We did a lot of stuff where they used a lot of acrylic hair and nylon hair.
to make the shapes and designs beforehand, because you can, they would iron them and mold them, and then that would often be added to the wigs to give.I wish we'd met before.
I wish you'd had a chance to come in and see some of the crowd rooms with all the... BRANDON Oh, my God, I would probably combusted.
I honestly probably would have had security called.I think I would have literally spontaneously gate combusted on the set.Like, I'm gonna have to work on my maturity before I can...
do that, but give me like one or two more years, and please invite me again, and I will so take you up on it, because like that would just be the best day of my life.
Okay, so not to like, okay, so how much inspiration did you take from like the Wizard of Oz in constructing the hair look?
We did do some odd nods to it, and both to the stage production as well.Our nods to the stage production were always safe, because Mark, that's Mark's.
Our nods to the Wizard of Oz always had to be checked if we were allowed to use them, through Mark, of course, because he knew everything, because of copyrights and stuff like that.I don't know about those sorts of things.
Something like the braid from the arrival at Shiz, taken from Wicked, the production, that was a given.That was an iconic moment that we were definitely going to bring through.
There aren't that many other moments where we've taken stuff from the stage play, I don't think, as exact thought processes.
But from The Wizard of Oz, going back to the early days in the planning, and very early in the planning, was what should the munchkins be?Because we needed to find the munchkins to find Bok.
And of course, Bok being a principal, normally you'd find Bok and then you'd find the munchkins, but munchkin was a big, It had to all sit together.
And again, along with John and Nathan and Paul, the textures that everybody was using, like Paul in his costumes and layering and in the house, the designs, you know, and Nathan starts much earlier than Paul or I in the film, were always textured and layered.
And the color palette was very beautiful and really easy to work with.
And it was immediately inspiring to me that the munchkins would look fantastic if they were, because they work in the field, they're natural, they're the workers of life, is that they had red textured hair, but very textured, not just, you know, not just, and the reds, I mean, there are, what, 100 or more shades of red in life.
I didn't mean just like somebody who you call ginger or strawberry blonde.We went from aubergines and maroons right up to
pale blondes and older ladies, grey-reds, and everybody had a curl, everybody had a tan from working outside, everybody had freckles pretty much from working on the land.
We tried to keep the foreheads quite high in the early days, we did some experiments where actually ball capping the artists and starting the wigs quite high, but
It was quite easy to see that that really wasn't that necessary because you could keep the foreheads high without going as far as adding an extra hour to the call by bald capping. two or three hundred people every day.
But once, I mean, there was a stage in that process where Mark Platt came back.He was actually an American.He added that maybe he'd like to look at our munchkins having blue hair.
And that was a nod back to The Wizard of Oz, not in the blue as in it being a color that's a fantastical, not a real color. I disagree completely, but this is an occasion where you say, well, yeah, I'll show you that.
Of course, I'll show you that, anything you want.But I said, I do feel like we're moving into another area of storytelling that I don't think they had thought about before by going into such a removed color.
So we did lots of blues for Mark, and luckily we did it, and then we photographed it on stand-ins.But Mark saw straight away, whenever we went to camera with it, he saw straight away that it wasn't
right for what we were building on and so he agreed to the red hair and then that gave us me the foundation for Bok because Ethan by nature happens to have red hair which was a bit he doesn't look that red but in his youth he was he was the red that I've used on him in Bok though it wasn't until I met him that I learned that he showed me a photo
And we gave him the texture and we gave him the hair extensions and he was colored red and he had hair extensions put in.And he had a wonderful artist called Zoe Stones, who works with me all the time, who does fantastic extensions.
And she put them in, cared for them.And we had to remove them sometimes.He had to go off to America or whatever on occasions.And the process of putting in is, with coloring, it's eight hours.You know, so we always had to have them a day or two early.
I mean, I don't know if you've ever done extensions on yourself, but it's a process. And getting them out is hard.It's hard.
Yeah, long.Yeah.Yes.Time-consuming.But they work beautifully.They work beautifully.And then Ethan brought to the plate as well.So he's casual and funny at the beginning in film one.And then as his life, as he's been dominated by Marissa, isn't it?
By Marissa, he gets more controlled.He's in his uniform.He's a servant.And his hair becomes much tighter. he becomes much tighter as a person.And then it was easy to take that small thought process through into what ended up as Tin Man with him.
But because your breadth, I mean, when you think about, like, Indiana Jones to, like, Graham Budapest to Wicked, I mean, such different visual cues, different, like, amounts of people, like, I mean, I think, um... Oh, my God, my brain.
When I think, like, Indiana Jones, it's like, this is much more rugged.It's like a little bit more men's grooming.Then Wicked just couldn't be any more opposite.
And then the Grand Budapest Hotel is like all like interesting angles and interesting, just different.It's just so different.Is it really different working on a huge production versus like a smaller one?Or is it pretty similar?
What would people be surprised to know about the similarities or differences between smaller production or gigantic one?
What I would say, two different things is, one is always strive for perfection.
Then no matter what size you're working on, whether it's the high action or the piece of art, you hopefully will have achieved something in between that works for the camera.
But I think one of the big differences, if you're talking about, say, something like World War Z, the Grand Budapest, those two, for example,
is know your director's work, because you know that Wes holds a frame, and it's a piece of, it's nearly like looking at individual paintings.So you know that level of work for that frame has got to be exactly as you'd want it, the delicacy,
You never put on anything too heavy.You never go over the top with blush because of the lighting.You know that what you see with your eyes, what waves it's going to achieve.
Whereas World War Z, with all your zombies running around like lunatics, you know that if you go too fine on the art, it's going to be lost.You won't even see it as they run past.
So you're going a bit more with a bit more oomph, I might call it, with making everything a bit bigger than you might when it's still. And when you've got the still frames, then work with the still frame.But that's in general.
To answer that question is what I would consider is how, whether it's action packed.And then I worked with Paul Greengrass, who I absolutely adore.And he does the action with a realness to it, but he holds frame and he holds frame really tight.
And like, you know, Tom's face for Captain Philip, something like that, you know, for those really deep emotional moments.You wouldn't want him too made up or looking like he's even wearing anything.
But of course, he has to wear something for perfection.So for not perfection, as in perfect for a camera, of the character, the sweatiness, the whatever it is that, you know, but keeping Tom's hair looking good.You don't want it to look too thin.
Jonathan Bailey.Jonathan was very happy to wear 2P because he knows when he does a huge amount of action, he gets really hot and that makes his hair go flat.And that's no good when you're Fiero.That's not your image.
You want it big and flamboyant the whole time.The different reasons for doing different things, really. Does that make sense?
It did make so much sense.But because you brought up World War Z and that is like my favorite zombie movie.So the plane scene when the zombie like sneaks into the plane and then like kills everyone did no spoilers.But it's 2013.
You guys have you slept on World War Z?That's your own problem.Um, Did you do that scene?Were you there for the filming of that scene?The plane scene?
Always be on the set, because it's what happens in front of the camera that will always come and haunt you.
Were you scared, Frances?Was that scene scary to watch, or only for us viewers?Was it creepy filming it?
I thought it was so brilliant.I have to say, I mean, I worked with Brad a few times, and I just think he was marvelous. Fantastic.
He was incredible.Yeah.Here's my only note for that movie.I know you didn't have anything to do with it.And I actually read that it was budget things.
After the plane crash, I was like, okay, honey, this, you got the, that's a sepsis waiting to happen, honey.We got the metal rod through the abdomen.
We're going to pull ourselves off the metal rod and we're going to fall out of an airplane like 70 feet, but then we're going to walk all the way to safety on the boat.I needed a little bit more there.
I needed like the, I kind of got lost at the pancreas, but I still stuck with it because I was just like, damn, honey, the rod to the pancreas and the suspended airplane is just a lot for Brad.
And I know that his core strength is like, you know, it's storied, but it's just Dang.But I need a World War Z, really.Or World War Z 2.I want a 2.Because, you know, at the end, they were like, blah, blah, blah.We got the vaccine.
Well, what about when the vaccine resistance comes and the zombie resistance strain comes for the World War Z?I want a 2.I want a sequel.And I think everyone can agree that we want a sequel on World War Z.
I do agree, it was so lacking.But for me, and my guilt is, to have just to have been through that, your pancreas pulled out, everything falling out of a plane, everything that happened, and all you get is a few scratches on your face.
That's very sad.But there are reasons when you can't control what they to show because they want to make him look beautiful in the next scene.
So, if he has to look beautiful, you can't have ripped out half his face because that would have to carry through for a much longer period of time than a few bits of glass that have cut down the side of his face.I mean, I've never forgotten it.
It's funny you should bring that one up.
Well, I... But it's funny that you say that.I did not remember his face.I only remembered the... The only... His face didn't lose me, because you could never lose me with Brad Pitt's face.-♪♪♪
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Okay, are you ready for our final segment?It's our rapid-fire segment, and then you get to be released into the London day, and you just have been our most fun guest ever, and I can't stand it.
Oh, Jonathan, what about all the other things I want to tell you about?All the other secrets?Oh my, tell me all the secrets!We haven't talked about Fiyero's blue horse that matches Fiyero. And he's all done with me.
Oh, we have to talk about it.We have to talk about it.
In post, they did, like, Dulcy Bear, and they did the goat, and they did the monkeys.But in reality, we did the scarecrow, and the tin man, and Fiero's horse.He wasn't prosthetics, but he was a huge job.
And then we did some 3D masks and that, which kind of aren't so obvious, but... The horse was, Jonathan has a favorite horse from Bridgeton.And so he came in and then our director said, I really want the horse to be fantastical.
I think it's sort of like have something special about him.And the director said, I really like him in this iridescent blue.And so, but also within horses, different horses give different performances.So like one horse is better at standing still.
Another one's better at running.Another one is much better at performing. turning, twisting, safer for Jonathan to ride, all these different things.So they, the horse people, we, we got the horses, we showed them what we wanted to do.
And so they, we shaved the horses.They were dyed black from a Japanese hair dye, which was safe for the horse's skin, which the horse company knew about.So that every horse matched each other.So one horse was was grey, it was called white grey.
One was brown and one was dark brown.And they all had their, they were all stripped and dyed black for the base.Then they all had their manes, had hair extensions and their tails so that they all matched and John Chew wanted them super long anyway.
And then we had our horses painted blue with this wonderful iridescence blue that we had made again.We used like, it's a shine that's used for the horse's shoes and everything so we knew it was safe.
And David Stoneman again took that product and added the blues that we found.And we did the trials like we do with the actors until we found the blue that the director thought worked wonderfully.And that's what was used.
And then I had my horse makeup artists, who was Jo Hannon and Becky Sheridan, who did the horses, all the different horses to always look alike every day they were used. It was a real little thing behind the scenes that nobody knew about.
What other cool, wicked things?
Yeah, well, Michelle Yeoh, she was one of those wonderful experiences.Of course, she was very busy, as you can imagine, with the Oscars and everything.
So she came in rather late, but I had her head shaped from another production, because she was too busy to do a fitting.
I met her once and showed her the thoughts of designs, but I based her on, um, you know, her magic powers to controlling the weather, if you know, wicked.And so I based her on a cloud.
Cause I thought her, she's very petite in person and you know, that thick black hair, but I thought it'd be so lovely.
Like when she's controlling the weather, waving her hands, that she's got this big hairdo that's all up in the air and bits floating off to the
And it just, you know, she came in only the day prior and we did her, we didn't ball cap her or anything because her own dark hair gave a nice density under the whiteness of the wig.
I mean, so, and her makeup artist was Sarah Knuth and she did her hair artist and makeup was Branca.
She did a wonderful job of getting that, all that black hair away, but it really did make a difference just having that little bit of depth underneath the cloud, so to speak. But Michelle loved it, and we were sorted, really.
And we did a trial date for, again, never just on the day.You know, John, Chew, Mark, they all approved it prior, with the costume and everything.So, but I loved her look, and she's truly a wonderful human being.
BOWEN YANG, did he just make everyone laugh, like, all the time?Like, on set?Just, like, such a light and loved to be around?
He is such a light to be around, isn't he?Bowie, he came in, as you know, he wears, he's extraordinarily short.So there was no chance of using just that.So we two paid him.
And of course, as you know, Bowie is so busy and locked into his production that we had no time.He was very late in and we just had to make it work.And it did work and it gave him some heightened something to work with.
It just complemented his costume.I thought it was amazing with it.But he was just so lovely.He was so, um... I don't know what the word for... He was just so giving.He's so unaware of how brilliant he is in himself.
I love that.Was there ever a time on Wicked where, like, It's like, you guys are doing a shoot and there's like a piece of hair that is just like holding on for dear life.And you're like, oh, fuck, I don't want that to fall right now.
Like, I want to get this shot.Or like, did you ever like, what's like a time where it was just like a tense time where you're like, oh God, I need, like, please stay up.Or like, oh God, please stop sweating.Or like, oh my God, I can see the thing.
Does that ever happen or is it usually pretty?You've done so much prep work that like those sorts of things don't really happen.
Oh, no, no, you can't predict those things.They do happen.
I mean, first of all, I go straight to John or Wes Anson or whoever it was that it was happening with and say, look, I mean, that mustache is falling off or that wig is going to come off, I can tell.And they go, no, no, no, I'm too busy, whatever.
And then I go to the head of visual effects and saying, if that does happen, is there anything you can do?And then if it does happen after you've warned everybody, you just ask them to make a note that,
You said it and it went wrong and it means doing the take again, but not much.
Once Cynthia flying through the air, I mean, and she was doing it for the 10th time and it was, you know, second unit in post on the broom and she was singing her heart out and she was strapped to the pole and she was whatever, 40 foot, 60 foot in the air and throwing her head round and everything.
And her hat was attached to her wig and the weight of the throwing, the whole lock came off.But, you know, that's just like, pop it back on again and go for it again.
BRANDON So when that happened with Cynthia, did they just kind of lower her and then you were like, all right, we got the second one standing by.Let's just get that on there.No problem.Back up you go.
CYNTHIA No, they lowered her.We picked it off the floor in the hat and stuck it back on and then up she goes again.It's just part of the process.But, you know, it happens.I mean, I think I've had it happen in every...
There'd be something on every film that you could refer this to, not just the hat or the wig.Wes Anderson, I don't remember Grand Budapest, but the story's being told by that lovely actor who's since passed away.I can't remember his name.
And it's at the opening, he's got the little girl sitting on his knee, or his son.And Wes doesn't like you to go in at all.No checks during takes or anything.Once it starts, it might go for 10 hours and you can't go in unless Wes says.
And the actor's mustache just went, started coming off and then it was rolling down and then it was hanging down half over his mouth.It's not until Wes says you can go in or Wes is willing to cut that you go in and do your repairs.
But, you know, it's not... You always inform them, then it's their call.
But what was your... But you won an Oscar.Can you just take me into, like, sitting in the... You're sitting in the theater and... Was it, like, a long-standing dream for you to win an Oscar?Did it change your life?
Did it... Was it everything you thought it would be?Was it kind of... What was that like?
I think the moment... You've won, that's the most special moment.But no, I didn't expect to get it because the other projects it was up against, there was some great work in there.And often it's, in my mind, it's the majority of the work that wins.
And there was Guardians of the Galaxy, and it had wonderful work in it and everything.And it was very popular.I didn't expect it to win by any means, but when we did get called, I was beyond delighted.
And other than how proud I am to have won it, it certainly not changed my working life, if that makes sense.I think maybe it changes people's perceptions of me.It hasn't changed me.
But you were booked and busy before and you stay booked and busy afterwards.
Yeah.I have to say, you know, you have to thank Wes Anderson as well.There's a, you know, his artistic eye is quite phenomenal. and his attention to detail surpasses anybody I've ever worked with.So, you know, within that, it's his art, really.
So, Scarecrow and Tin Man, prosthetics.What prosthetics are we gonna be seeing in Wicked?
Well, they're marvelous.It was a collaboration with Marc Cuglio again, which we've had several times, and his work is just... I just... I feel like he just complements everything that I can imagine or do or ask for.
And John Chu had the most fantastic image of a tin man that he'd found.And that was our basis for the tin man look.And then Mark worked along with that.And of course, there's a lot of work in post, though the prosthetics are all on.
I'm i'm keeping something off from ethan showing through that that even managed to be eaten through a full face of prosthetics he brought through a sadness in there, i'm simply for him that i have a vulnerability that.
I can't even imagine how hard it was.
I mean we keep the prosthetics super thin but nevertheless you have to add the different shapes and the idea when you do get to see it is that in the room when Marisa does the spell and it goes wrong is everything metal in the room
in the post attaches to Bok.That's how he becomes Tin.She does the spell and it all goes wrong.And she, by doing the wrong spell, makes him metal.
And you'll see all this lovely detail where John had, where you'll see a piece of the fireplace on him, and you'll see the salt and pepper pot, or you see the handles of the jug, or you'll see the rivets from the fireplace.
All these little details that were brought to the plate, it was a real collaboration between what Nathan had on set, what Paul could do, what Paolo did, who's our supervisor, in post to make the body all hang together.
But the detail, the little fingers, he's got pepper pots and he's got, it's just beautifully done.That was all Paul, that final bit there.It was, it's really, but the main thing I think was Ethan's performance never got lost behind it.
And that I think is a real light to shine on how good the work was.And Fiera, of course, he had a love sequence to do with Elphaba whilst he was a scarecrow.
So we did a pass at it where, and the wig worked perfectly well because it was a transition and we, you know, sewed in half the field into a basic wig that was of the color of his original blondes.
And that just worked really well on Jonathan, but the, our burlap face, our sacking, you know, that was his head.We, again, with that, we,
put it on and Mark felt like it lost a bit too much Jonathan, so Mark Platt that is, so Mark Coolio shaved down all the inside so that it kept Jonathan's face shape, but we just changed all the texture.
And Jonathan in the film, we gave him, Jonathan has naturally brown eyes. We made him blue for Fierro because that's the color of his village, where he comes from, his color tones, palette.
And then we made him dark brown for the fields for when he becomes Scarecrow.So his eyes became more of a pool, which worked really well in the love scenes, I think.But that was the prosthetic sort of, and they worked beautifully.
And of course then the actors brought it all to life, but it was beautifully done.But with great thought, I thought,
Mark Platt and John Chu's part in how much they wanted to keep Fiyero and Bok more alive than going straight to that prosthetic look of a Tin Man and a Scarecrow as in the original film.
What do you think that people will be, like, maybe the most surprised about when they see Wicked?
How spectacular it is, really, because everything is exaggerated.And, um... And hopefully how timeless it is, because everything has a twist on it, no matter where it's been taken from in history or present day, it's all got something new about it.
And I hope that brings, enhances the audiences, what they see, what their visuals see, regardless of the story.And that's wonderful.
Okay, so basically, this is our final segment, and it's our rapid fire segment.Okay.What is your budget beauty recommendation under 10 quid?
Under 10 quid's thrown me, but a mascara.
I love Maybelline, and it's definitely under 10 bucks.I always use that one.
It's gorgeous.Slash Blast.It's classic, and it works really well, and it's affordable. What's your favorite splurge recommendation?Oh, Creme de la Mer.You guys, you know how I feel about that.What's a product you never leave home without?My lip tint.
Which one?Who do you love?
I'm using the Victoria Beckham at the moment, but it's new to me, so... Vicky B?I just let you know.
What's your favorite vintage beauty look?
Very different.Ooh!I feel like I need to see you, like, do a period piece collab of punk and 40s.It's giving, like, Vivienne Westwood on, like, dry brushed out finger waves.I'm obsessed. Okay, okay.What is your favorite coat?A crumbie.
Particularly the one that Bill Murray wore in Groundhog Day.
What about your favorite handbag?A tote.By what designer?
Hermes.Purr, kitty purr. What's your favorite foundation?
Sweetener.Oh, Ariana!Oh, wait, actually, I skipped through that.You guys, so but even though Ariana said that she didn't want to bring like Ariana into Galinda, she did bring R.E.M.into Galinda, right?Because the makeup's looking gorgeous.
Yeah, no, we definitely used her products a lot.And we particularly liked her little cheek.She's got a very special thing where she has her highlighter called Mercury onto the tip of her nose.
And it was kind of the thing she'd do just before a take or just when she'd leave the room.And it was a lovely final touch.I felt once she found Galinda, it would be like the finishing moment.Oh, my God.Favorite shoe?
Oh, the Ferragamo, the Audrey Hepburn.Little lace-up.
I love it. Love it so much, can't stand it.Favorite hairspray?
Oh, I've got to be, because it holds all those stars in Wicked.Perfume. Oh, Bloody Chanel.Reminds me of my mom.Moisturizer.Crème de la Mer.Makeup remover.Crème de la Mer.Sorry.Am I being boring?Sorry.
Oh, wait.So when you come home, when you're going to take your makeup off, you just like use the same Crème de la Mer and you just like warm it up in your fingertips and use it as a cold cream?
No, no.And then just like wash it off?Yeah, no.The cleanser, the moisturizer, the daytime moisturizer is my favorite. But no, their cleanser is what I like to use.
And then just... Oh, the green one, that kind of green, the green one in the shower, the foaming one.
Okay, randomly, Frances, and I don't want to come for Estee Lauder anymore because I already had to eat my words on Creme de la Mer because I already said on this podcast that I thought I didn't like it.Then my girlfriend was like, you're insane.
You didn't rub it up in your hands enough to make it warm and more liquidy before you roll and press.Then when she taught me how to use it right, I literally had to come on this podcast and do my only ever retraction where I was like, I was wrong.
I was talking shit.I take it back.I was wrong.But that foaming cleanser, it burns the shit out of my eyes.And I don't know why.Because I bought it.But it really does burn my eyes when I wash.I don't know why.Because I wear a lot of eye makeup.
So I'm like... They have a much gentler one.They have a gentler one as well.So maybe you're using the wrong one for you.But if I could only buy one of their products, I think they are so dear.
people can't go buy them, would be the daytime moisturizer, not the matte finish, the ordinary one.If I could ever say to you, just buy one moisturizer, the daytime, not matte finish.
The nighttime one is lovely, but it's very heavy, and it's quite good for somebody with psoriasis, but it does need warming.You're not wrong.What's your favorite candle?
Oh, I like the, I think it's pronounced Ortega, the cigar one.Ortega, Ortega, it's an Italian brand from Sicily.It's just beautiful.No, we got it.Powder blush?Powder blush is the Terry Rose.
Terry Rose.Cream blush? What about favorite shampoo and conditioner?
Oh, I like, I have to say, I'm a great fan of the, how do you spell it?Shu Uemura's range.
Um, Frances, I love you so much.Thanks for taking your time.This was, like, such a beyond honor, and I just love you so much, and your work is just so insanely incredible.And also...
When I said that I didn't have the maturity to go on set, that was my ADHD.
So if you ever need an assistant, I will be so quiet and so well-behaved and just a quiet little mouse that will just, I will get your coffees or I can set up your station or I can blow dry the back of somebody or I can even say, I'll do whatever you want me to do.
So if you ever need a little good helping girl, I will be quiet.I will be nothing like today.I will be so studious and professional and you won't regret it.So if you ever need to hire me for an on-set assistant, I'm your girl.
Yeah.Well, I look forward to the day when we do meet.
Maybe New York, LA, London.Yeah, we're coming to London in February for some JVN hair stuff and my husband's family is all there.So we usually go like three or four times a year.
So if you want, I'd love to take you to dinner and I'll have, I'll have Chris send you my cell number if you want to be friends.I would be, I'd love to be friends.
I would love that, Jonathan.And thank you so much for today.It's been so nice talking with you.You too.
You've been listening to Pretty Curious with me, Jonathan Van Ness.You can learn more about this week's guest in the episode description and follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Curious with JVN.
Pretty Curious drops every Monday wherever you get your podcasts.And make sure to tune in every Wednesday for Getting Curious.Still can't get enough?Honey, you're insatiable.
Subscribe to Extra Curious on Apple Podcasts for commercial-free listening and our subscription-only show, Ask JVN, where we're talking all about sex, relationships, or really just whatever's on my mind that week.
Our theme music is composed by Nathaniel McClure.Come on, Nathaniel!Our editor and engineer is also Nathaniel McClure.Yes!Getting Curious is produced by me, Chris McClure, with production support from Julie Carillo, Ann Curry, and Chad Hall.
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