Welcome to the CMO Chapter Podcast, where we dive deep into the dynamic world of chief marketing officers.Join us as we explore the careers, insights, and strategies of top marketing executives who shape the brands we know and love.
Whether you're a seasoned marketer, aspiring CMO, or simply just curious to understand what it really takes to step into the shoes of a CMO.
This podcast is your backstage pass to discovering what it's like to lead and innovate in the ever-evolving landscape of business.Stay tuned as we uncover the stories of the visionaries behind the brand.
So I am absolutely delighted to welcome Tash Ralliker to my, I think it's episode three, Ron, now.My goodness, it's all flying by so quickly. I would love to welcome Tash.
I feel like I've known Tash now for, I don't know, maybe five or six years, possibly longer.
Yep, thereabouts. I haven't flown by.It's crazy.It has.
Tash, would you like to introduce yourself?Sure.Thank you so much for getting me on the podcast.And hi, everybody.My name is Tasha Halker.I am the General Manager of Marketing, Performance and Ops at MYOB.I've known Lucy for a while now.
I think I've been in marketing for over 20 years, different facets of marketing.So every marketer comes to marketing with an interesting background.
And i came in with an engineering background so don't hold that against me but i i'm an engineer who didn't we didn't love marketing fell in love with business and when to do different facets of marketing so i don't market research of the product brand and now performance operations.
Amazing, amazing.And so now at Mayob, leading the realm.
Yeah, it has been a very fun experience.I've been for two and a half years or more, and at Mayobi, and yeah, I've loved every minute of it.
I guess I certainly have a few exciting juicy questions up my sleeve, but one that I'm very particularly quite interested to learn and I guess also understand from your perspective.From what I understand, so you actually migrated over to Australia.
It would have been in about 2005?I did 2005, yeah.
So that would have been quite a significant time for you in terms of, you know, understanding a new culture, coming to a new country, developing yourself, having to, you know, really roll up your sleeves, dig deep, network.
I guess at that particular time, when we sort of go back to 2005, how did you find that as somebody who was
you know, obviously very new to the country and didn't have the connections and obviously you were very driven and ambitious, but almost how did you get to now where you are?
I want to say it's all design, but it's not.It never is.Look, I think when I started in, when I came to Melbourne, I came for my MBA to Melbourne.So it was a little easier path because I came through education.
And so, it gave me a couple of years to settle into the place, really understand the nuances of how things operate.I mean, they're not vastly different, but they are a little bit different.Every place has their own little quirks, if you like.
You know, someone said, Ago, and I had no idea what that meant the first time, so now I know. But it's little things.So I think that the education, the two years in education really helped me settle in.
And I was fortunate because I suppose the benefit is you're young.And so you don't know any better.And so you hustle every way.You're looking for a job.You're not fussy about which one.You want a job in marketing.
And I was fortunate enough to get a good gig with ADP when I started. So that sort of set me on the right path and I got to meet some great people along the way.And then leaning into opportunities as they came in, to be honest.
I mean, it wasn't a program of work that I got used to.Australia, I'm working here, but it just happens while you're doing the work.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Excellent.And you're right as well.I think, you know, when we're all a bit younger as well, we're almost a bit fearless and, you know, it's kind of like you just throw yourself into it.
You know, I mean, I moved over here when I was, I think, what, 28 years old.And I remember not saying, I didn't say no to an invite for, I think, about a year.I was exhausted.
Oh God.I mean, you know, the benefit of it is that you, you don't have too much at stake.You don't have too much at stake at all because you are young, you're starting your career in a new country.
I need coffee and you know you always got these questions around am i going to fit in i sound different i look different is that gonna be held against me.
I haven't found that i mean i know of a friend of in the community who have had unfortunate experiences but they're very far between. majority of people are extremely welcoming.
And I think once the talent is what matters, the hard work is what matters.
So when somebody understands that you're ready to put in the hard work, you're committed, and you're doing some good work, it almost doesn't matter if you sound different or you look different.
And that's when you start to realize that it's sometimes in your mind more than anything else, that you feel different.
I think that's a, yeah, a very valid point indeed.Absolutely.I find, you know, it's almost ourselves that we're the sort of like of one out, you know, and we're trying to sort of immerse ourselves.So I completely, completely understand.
I want to understand a little bit more.So within your team at the moment, you know, you've got various individuals that are reporting into reports that then report into you, as these kind of structures tend to be.
How do you innovate and, I guess, you know, really sort of try and be that, that leader that, you know, is going to be, that, I guess, more so, you're trying to encourage them to grow and encourage development within that team?How do you do that?
This is actually a passion topic for me, development, as my team will agree.I am very focused on development, whether it's mine or whether it's anybody else's.
And so this is a common sort of theme that we talk about in our team meetings, in our one-on-ones with my leaders.And I'm encouraging people to talk to their leaders as well and their people about this.And I agree that development doesn't occur.
Now that I've worked in so many roles, I've realized that development doesn't always have to be a vertical one.Not everyone wants to or is in the place in their lives to be looking for their next role.Sometimes it's family commitment.
Sometimes they just love what they do and they don't want a people leadership role.They just want to develop as a subject matter expert in what they do and be an absolute gun at it.And that's okay.Development goals can be different.
But I think supporting and recognizing that is very important.
So we make sure I have a conversation about what I am doing myself, because I want to make sure my team and all my team understands that at every stage and at every phase, you are developing.
Just because you get into a certain role, you don't stop growing, learning new things, or taking on new opportunities.So it's important to show that as well. But we actually talk about and actively talk about development plans and goals.
Development comes from various paths.Like, I think one thing that we love to talk about in the team is it's not always a course.It's not always a certification.Sometimes it's shadowing someone.Sometimes it's a podcast, amazing podcasts.
Great books, great networks that you can tap into.And I think growth can come from every place.So whether you're shadowing, whether you have a mentor, whether you are just taking a new project.
So I've got somebody who wants to learn more about the commercial aspect of marketing. And again, that's probably my area of strength and work.
So this becomes an easy thing because I was almost asked to shadow me around and help me on a project and learn by just observing what things are done so that the next time this person is able to do it for themselves.
Yeah, development is a very important thing.I think recognizing individual goals is even more important.And once you know them and you've had that chat, then structure something.It doesn't have to be too formal.
It almost gets intimidating sometimes when it's too formal.
Yeah, just be, I think, you know, there's a common theme from many of my guests that I've spoken to.It's about, um, really, I think being very authentic in yourself.Um, you know, we're not all experts at what we do.
And I think, you know, one of my, my previous guests had mentioned.It's hard.
Sometimes we will look at LinkedIn and you see these people on, you know, significant titles and, you know, working for top tier businesses and you kind of almost go, how did they get that?That's incredible.But, you know, there's a lot of.
battle scars and, you know, lots of breath behind the scenes on that one.
Was there ever a time for you that you remember when you look back at your career, like a sort of significant moment where, you know, I look at you now and, you know, you have a lot of confidence and, you know, I feel like you come from a place of strength and, you know, you're a safe pair of hands.
You totally know what you're doing.You're very cool, calm, collected whenever I've met you.
I'm glad I'm coming across like that.
Was there ever that moment in your career where you sort of really, you remember feeling like it was all starting to come together?
I think a couple of moments perhaps.
When you start and you're working and everybody has an imposter syndrome, I think that's the one thing I've realized with experience is that you're not alone when you think that you don't know what you're doing but everybody else does.
And I think it's okay to feel like that.I think that's the learning.Maybe it comes with experience.Maybe it comes with enough battle scars, as you say, where you've realized that you ultimately did land.You did do the job.You did do it well.
But it's the anxiety that, at the start, makes you feel very nervous about doing that, about being judged.And I'd like to tell myself, if I look at five or ten years back, to say, no one's judging you. Like, it's okay.
Just do what you can, and even when you're doing that, you'll be fine.A couple of moments where it almost strikes you after it has happened.
And so it was, I was actually doing a recording, a TV recording for one of my previous organizations I worked in, and we were talking about a campaign we had launched.
And after that was done, and I didn't think about it while I was doing it, but after that was done, I had a couple of people from my organization reach out to me and said, oh my God, you look so confident.
One of them was a migrant herself, and she sort of sent me this lovely message that I don't know how you get there, I don't know how this confidence that you have.And it almost made me realize that she's seeing me like how I see other people.
Yeah, wow, gosh.I was there, and it's a journey.And that moment you realize that it's never finished. And you don't have to try too hard, you just have to be.
And the confidence, like you say, I think it comes from the realization of letting the anxiety go, or letting that feeling go of, am I doing it?Am I coming across as, like, am I contributing?Am I doing well in my role?Am I making an impact?
I think these questions can make us feel very anxious, but just trust the process.Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Was there any, throughout your career, any leaders or, you know, I've spoken to a few people around this, but in terms of, you know, we often have experiences throughout our career where we've had fantastic leaders that, you know, we've, we've known to, you know, almost look at and go, I'd love to get to where you are one day.
And, you know, you've shown me the way and, you know, you've made me shine, which is brilliant. But then we've also had experiences where we don't get that, and it's not been as brilliant.
So, you know, and then we start to learn, well, we definitely don't want that.
And, you know, I know from a recruitment perspective, I have many individuals that say, well, when I go for interviews, you know, we're looking for the red flags, you know, because we've had those experiences.What about yourself?
Was there any leaders that, you know, almost sort of like helped or mentored you or shaped you to become the leader that you are today?
Oh gosh, there are way too many leaders who have shaped me.I've been fortunate for most part of my career to work with some amazing leaders, amazing bosses, to be honest.They've sort of helped me step into that next phase and learn.
Even if it's a short four months, like I had a CMO I worked with, about four or five months, and then he moved on to another role.But even in those four or five months, watching him present, watching him talk, He was so charismatic.
It was just interesting.As a marketer, he was a natural storyteller.So is my CMO now, a natural storyteller with so much vision, so much strategy.I've worked with my previous bosses who were so empathetic and who were so supportive.
I'm friends with them today.I catch up and it tells me that we had a good relationship. Because they kind of recognized the space we needed as people to grow, but also were there to support and counsel.
And when you wanted to just go, ah, it's all too much, or I'm facing this challenge that I can't seem to get past, they were there to solve for it.So I think every leader tells you a little bit different.
You almost take a little bit different from every person because they come with their own strengths.
So I think there are way too many to talk about, but most of my bosses, most of my leaders, a CEO who I worked for in the past and she was an acting CEO for some time. But she came from a very different point of view.
And it was brilliant because it gave me the understanding of how to pitch to a CEO on marketing.And how to demonstrate the value because I could see her questions.
I could see where she was coming from in terms of not fully understanding how marketing works.And I think sometimes those questions, and she wasn't coming from a disrespectful way.It was just a need to understand value.
Yeah, and it helped me rather than, I mean, I suppose there could have been two ways to take it, but if you take it as a, I need to help this stakeholder, it helps.
And conversely, you've worked with leaders who are not in the best phase of their lives sometimes.I think I look for a leader who's confident in the fact that they don't know everything.Yeah, yeah.
I think that makes for amazing leaders, a leader who can say, hey, I have no idea. I don't know.
Absolutely.Yeah, I think just to be very, very vulnerable because yeah, I think, you know, honesty and none of us all know or have the perfect formula sometimes.Yeah, I think it's important.I've got a bit of an interesting question actually on that.
As a recruiter, you know, I meet many individuals that have, you know, for various reasons left positions and they've left positions because, you know, they've had a credit really toxic experience, perhaps with a manager or they've had a new manager or whatever it may be.
And it's just not, you know, being the great alignment.I don't know.I mean, I always say people always talk about red flags and they sort of say, well, how do you identify them?
You know, I'm curious to understand from your perspective, when you're, or if you were sort of ever interviewing, like, have you just always been very honest and really upfront in terms of asking the open questions with your potential leader about how they managed to sort of try and pull those little red flags out or?
I think I'm getting better at it.Yeah.I can't say I've always been that good, because when you start, you ask your typical questions of, what's your management style?And there are very standard replies to it, but there's a lot to unpack in there.
Yeah.Which I've now started, like, I actually had a boss who I sat in interviews for some other positions with him, and he asked some very interesting questions.What makes you uncomfortable? you know, um, what's your fondest aspiration?
Well, like there were some really personal things sometimes, not, not uncomfortably personal, but just exploring and unpacking the person behind the role.
And I think I've, I've almost adopted some of those questions now when I interview for candidates as well, or if I'm, you know, if I'm ever interviewing in the future, but
I take those on because I feel like that helps me understand the, you can't get prepared for that.
And when you speak, you kind of, when you answer those questions or when I've seen candidates who we've finally recruited answer those, there've been some amazing answers.
There's been authenticity, there's been just humbleness sometimes and clarity in how they answer.And that tells you a lot about the person.
Absolutely.Yeah.I found the same.Absolutely. I guess in your view, when you've got, I, I want to sort of speak to, to more mark, I guess, marketers that are aspiring to one day be basically in your shoes or an executive or a CMO at some point.
What ex, I guess, what skills or experience would you say that those individuals should really start to focus on developing?
Is there anything particularly, like if we were talking to say that mid-management layer, you might manage say small teams at the moment or they're quite new into that role? What sort of advice would you give them?
I think a couple of things.So the first, if you're in mid-management, I'm assuming you've honed your craft.I think that's the main thing.If you haven't honed marketing as a craft, then that's probably the fundamental.
You have to understand how marketing strategy is developed, from the segmentation and audience to delivery measurement and attribution.You have to understand that panel.
But I'm assuming that when you are in mid-management, you've honed a craft in one area, not everything, but you've found you're an expert in something.And that's how you got into that leadership position.
I think once you get into the leadership though, you want to start thinking more broadly about marketing, because you might come from digital, or you might come from brand, or you might come from markups.
Your next leadership position might not be in that silo or that pillar, marketing or marketing.It's got to be much broader.And so understanding the different aspects of marketing is very important.
You might not be an expert in them, but knowing what questions to ask, How it relates to other functions is important, so I think that's probably one.
The second one, which I hold very dearly, is the commerciality of marketing, and I can't stress that enough.Yeah, but marketers need to understand the commerce of marketing.
Because when you are in senior positions, ultimately, marketing as a function exists to help a company grow, to help get the message of that product or that service, and get people to believe in the brand.
And buy more from you, stay more with you and feel happy about that purchase, right?All of that is ultimately trying to grow.The company operates on revenue, expenses, those are the core fundamentals of any business.
I'm saying a commercial one, not for profits, and governments operate slightly differently, but not that differently.Ultimately, your marketing function has to understand how it links that value into driving revenue.
Are you doing it at the optimal cost structure to drive that revenue?If you're putting in a million dollars today, How is it going to return?How is it going to impact that growth?When is it going to impact that growth?
And how are you going to measure it?Because I think, you know, there's a… The brand versus performance conversation is always interesting.You have to build a long-term brand, but that investment is not going to return in this year.
And I think there are important conversations to have, but also as marketers, we need to get better and better at this data-driven marketing muscle that helps you tell the story of what you did, what activities, what campaigns, what strategies you applied, what value you secured for the company.
I think once you get that,
You're in the right direction.
It's really interesting because I know last time we caught up actually, we had a really good conversation around how, in your view, and you made such a valid point and I know many have agreed with you since from my conversations, where
The requirement now in the market is to really, you know, have more of a focus on getting these, you know, more data centric marketers.Some may argue, well, actually, no, you don't need that.You just need more analysts.
Well, I think it's more about having.
What we're trying to say here is that, you know, instead of, you know, marketers right now in 2024, when we know that the economy is tough, especially as we know, you know, in consumer services, retail, et cetera, it's been hit hard.
You know, there really is this requirement where, you know, we're not going to be spending hundreds of thousands of millions on fabulous brand fluffy campaigns that, you know, we're going to all of a sudden cost a fortune.
You know, it needs to be, we're looking at the bottom line a hundred percent and it's got to be, you know, everything that we're doing, there's got to be a return of investment.There's got to be sort of proof within that.
Yeah, absolutely.And look, I think, you know, those brand campaigns, They work.They work when they're done well and the messaging is correct and aligned.But there's a narrative even behind that of how that aligns to the broader marketing strategy.
And whether how you feel about a brand influences the choice you make ultimately.Is that for your brand?Is that the sort of category you play in?
There are nuances to understand, but data-driven marketers are critical because we're doing so much automation, we're relying so much on platforms.
Absolutely.I'm curious to understand, if you could tell me, is this sort of a secret sort of formula or, I don't know, specific ingredients that you would say that
you know, good CMOs or GMs such as yourself really need to possess to, you know, be successful in their role?
I wish there was, no.I don't think there's a secret formula, so to speak.
I think it's, you know, it comes down to the, you've got to understand good CMOs can set good visions, but also it's the ability to develop a strategy and get the team to deliver on that strategy year after year.
And different companies at different stages, my personal belief, require different CMOs. Every CMO comes with a strength.Every leader comes with a strength.
I keep saying to people, don't forget that every leader, no matter how senior, even a CEO, has a strength and a weakness.
There are some blind spots that they have and some absolute strengths that they have, but they just know how to harness those strengths better.
A company that is operationally excellent but needs vision will need that visionary CMO who comes in and gives a different direction versus a company that is right now that marketing function needs operational excellence, someone who drives pace, someone who delivers.
There's understanding of strategy.There's understanding of the market. but operational excellence is lacking or that marketing automation is lacking or the creative insight is lacking.It depends what CMO you need, what strengths that CMO brings in.
I don't think there's one thing that makes you brilliant or an ideal candidate, but I think you need to know what your strengths are. What do you bring to marketing?So if I go, I know what I will add, but I also know where I'll need help.
And so my leaders are absolutely people who are experts in places where I might not be an expert.
And I rely on them heavily, my peers, I rely on them heavily to tell me, you know, what are my blind sides or something that I'm not an expert in because I purely haven't worked in that space.
So I don't profess to be an expert in everything, but I think good leaders know how to, what is their strength, but how to get the right people with them to form that winning combination, I think.
I think you've nailed it there, actually.
I think, um, it's a common theme I'm hearing actually, where, you know, it's hiring people that are better at, you know, specific areas of expertise than what you are, you know, getting, getting the, the, the awesome individuals on site.For sure.
I want to have a quick chat around, um, I guess more so personal branding.You know, I often get asked this question around, you know, I want to get more involved in perhaps being on panels or, but I don't know how to do it.
I don't know where to start.I'd love to get more involved in, you know, I get shy when I go to networking events and. Like, you know, I've never really done that kind of thing before.
Can you tell me or at least give our listeners any advice around, you know, how you started to, I guess, start to develop or even grow your personal brand?
So I don't think, I mean, marketers are sometimes the last person they market themselves.Yeah.I think I'm a proof of that.Most marketers will agree. that sometimes we get so busy marketing and doing the doing for our jobs that we forget ourselves.
LinkedIn is a common platform.There are so many platforms now.I mean, I'm not as active on LinkedIn as I used to be.My job's getting busier and busier.
So, I don't want to preach something that I don't follow, but if you are able to, absolutely, LinkedIn is your platform. Share your thoughts, show your expertise in there.Have a strategy behind, you know, a good brand strategy.
Think about yourself as a brand.And if someone was to say, you know, this person is good for, or is great at, what would that be?
So that when a third person goes, hey, there is an opening for a brand strategist to come in, or someone who completely drives commercial marketing and performance, they can think of you in that space, which is what we do from a brand perspective when we are
marketing products and services as well.So I think having that sort of understanding of where you play and what is your area of expertise and then showcasing that on different platforms is great.
Speaking is, I think, a personal choice, speaking on panels.Some people, I enjoy it, but I've always done public speaking even through school.Okay.Came naturally.Right.So if it makes you uncomfortable, don't do it. Like, you're not gonna shine.
Start with smaller things.If that's still an aspiration, start with smaller things.I happened to come in because I was approached for a public speaking, a public panel.I was approached to be on a panel.And I think the
interesting part is once you're on one, the other event organizers start to tap into you as well sometimes and then you get to know people and so you get passionate.
Sometimes you can approach an organizer to say, I'm very passionate about this topic, I've spoken or I write about on LinkedIn this, this is my job, I'd love to be involved.
There are different strategies on a panel, but if it makes you uncomfortable to speak in front of, you know, 100, 200, 500 people, start small somewhere.If that's still an aspiration, start small.
But it's not that only the person who speaks on a panel or at an event is an amazing marketer.Yeah.There are brilliant marketers who never go on a panel.Yeah.And they do brilliant careers as well.
Every person's journey is unique in that sense, but LinkedIn, these panels are an amazing, or podcasts, I suppose, are an amazing opportunity.Start something.
If you don't know where to start or there is nothing that you can contribute to and you have an opinion or you have some passion around pricing, for example, or different strategies, start something yourself.
Yeah, yeah. Love it.Is there any emerging trends or I know, I mean, I've spoken to a few people, obviously, of course, about AI, we will talk about that.
But I guess for any, you know, marketers that, you know, one day wanting to become, you know, leaders, or is there any
specific trends or, you know, insights in the market that you sort of get excited by and, you know, you look for in the future and you say, you know what, I definitely start to really get ahead of the curve across this, this and this.
Look, I think the AI, gen AI, AI's always been there, the gen AI revolution is well and truly here.
And I think it's offering some amazing benefits and opportunities for us to sometimes do less grunt work and do some more creative work or do some more meaningful work, if you like.
So there's opportunities, but there's also the pitfalls of the shiny toy.
So I think as marketers, if we understand that in the function that you are, you know, you might be in content, I think content's probably an area where JNI has had the most impact.Yeah.
But it's absolutely starting to come into marketing platforms, for example, you know, with Salesforce and I think it's, I forget their name, but I saw that HubSpot has that as well, like major marketing platforms.
smarter systems have their predictive modeling tools.That's coming.That's already here.It's not even coming.It's already here.
And so how that applies to your function, to what you do, or to a broader marketing is probably where I'd say marketers and I'm leaning as well to understand how does that change what we do?How does that evolve what we do?
So is this a, you know, if it's content automation, What can we rely on the platform for and what to look out for?How can that help us get campaigns quicker and faster, but also better to the market?
Because what you don't want is 50 versions of the same team.
And there's a risk in automation.So you need to figure out how it automates, what is meaningful to automate, and what is where you need a human insight or creativity.We automate our analytical platforms, right?And reports, and data analysis.
A lot of that can be automated.With GetXL, this just does it better. So, but you still need a person sometimes to review those insights and make sure they're business relevant and sort of make meaning out of those and give it to the marketing team.
So there are lots of platforms, there are lots of heaps of podcasts to get into to really understand, but I think start with your world. Because otherwise you will go into this broad land of all marketing and AI innovations, and it's mind boggling.
So think about the problem to solve first, and then start to see how GNI can help you or some automation or innovation or new platforms can help you solve it.
Because when you start with that why, it makes it an easier journey than to just go, oh, I want Jasper. Yeah.What I want to bring in X, Y, what is it going to help solve?Is that even a problem for your company?Yeah.
So I think that's probably a key hack, Agwe.And I'm working through this now, but from a MarTech perspective, what are the problems to solve?And I think it starts with that.
I think that's such a great answer because it's so easy to get lost in all this.You know, we can all of a sudden, you know, we can get distracted.
You see, you know, so many workshops or, you know, new software coming through and, you know, we can go down these sort of almost like rabbit warrens.
And who doesn't want to work with cool toys, right?Of course.But does it make sense?Is it needed?And is it the most important investment needed?Yeah, that's ask.
Yeah, absolutely. I just want to ask, what are you most proud of now when you sort of look back?I mean, you've got, you know, a lot more years to come, you know, within your career.
But what, what are you proud of, would you say, so far in terms of, you know, your career and how far you've come when you look back?Is there any specific moment that, you know, really sort of stands out for you?
Yeah, a few.So we had, as a storyteller or brand marketing campaign, when I was at State Trustees, we delivered a campaign called Thank You.
So State Trustees provides wills and powers of attorney to people, and it's all about protecting legacies of Victorians. And we had a thank you campaign for seniors week, which is a thank you for the legacy you built.
And, you know, you build the state, you build our lives.And so it's our thank you to you.And so we're offering sort of free bills during that week.
But I think the, I was, I was really, really proud of the team and of all of us coming into that because it was a brilliant narrative.It was one that we all personally connected with.
We've all had our grandparents where we've looked at them and gone, gosh, you created this for us.
Our parents who have created this for us.So I think if we personally connected, and I think it was such a heartwarming and just, it put a smile on our face.Yeah.It was a heartwarming campaign.
Bringing that to life and making sure our stakeholders understood why we were doing it.Yeah.And an important part in our community was really good.I think the second one is perhaps now the one we are on, which is driving personalization.
So helping leverage marketing automation platforms, connecting your data warehouses and managing your audiences, CDPs, And creating that almost a data plumbing structure to help automate campaigns.I think I'm really proud of the team.
We have a massive cross-functional team that does it, and I've had the privilege of working on it for a year.It's a complex problem because there's a lot of data involved.
Sometimes data was structured not knowing how we're going to use it in the future. But unpacking those problems and unlocking that value and making sure we are, we're seeing the changes, we're seeing actual impacts at the end.
Yeah.Yeah.Love it.Well, Tash, I have to say, I've really enjoyed listening to you.
I think you've, you've just been so open and it's been really great to understand exactly, well, A, what you're currently up to at the moment, but also dig a bit deeper into suddenly, you know, what you've done in the past and how you've got to now where you are.
So thank you so much.I've really enjoyed having you on as my guest.
Thank you so much Lucy for the opportunity.It's been wonderful.It's a good Friday.
Remember, the road to CMO isn't always linear.It's filled with challenges, decisions and moments of transformation.
Whether you're charting your course or navigating a career shift, the experiences, wisdom shared today as with our guests is invaluable.Thank you for joining us.
Keep dreaming big, keep pushing boundaries and remember that your journey towards becoming a CMO is as much about the destination as it is about the growth you experience along the way.
Until next time, continue to innovate, evolve and carve out your path to CMO.
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