Listen to this episode if you find fears popping up in your business or you have ever felt in a season of stuck and you want to get some practical tools to move through that fear and stuckness.
Today, we have the pleasure of having one of my friends and fellow podcast host on our podcast.Today, we are chatting with Deanna DeBara. She is a writer and podcast host.
Her podcast, Season of Stuck, is an exploration of the all-too-human experience of feeling stuck.She offers insights in how to navigate stuckness, learn from it, and ultimately get unstuck.
She helps people step into that next version of themselves and shares stories of fellow people that have felt this stuckness.Without further ado, here is our conversation with Deanna. Hello, thanks so much for being here today.
Do you want to start with just introducing yourself?What do you do?What your podcast is?All of that.
Yeah, absolutely.First of all, Maddie, thank you so much for having me.I'm so excited to be here.My name is Deanna DiBera.I am a writer and I am the host of the Season of Stuck podcast.
Yes, and that is a podcast about the very human experience of feeling stuck.
So how and why we get stuck, what that can feel like, how we can learn and grow from it, and ultimately how to get unstuck and step into the next version of ourselves and our lives, including when we feel stuck in our businesses.
Yeah, I feel like it is just such a... I don't know if there's anybody out there that hasn't had a some season of stuck.And I think as a business owner, as a person in general, I think everybody can kind of relate to that feeling.
What drew you to stuckness as kind of your major focus?So I am a person that has felt stuck a lot.
like a lot, a lot in many different places, in many different areas of my life, including as a business owner.
And to your point, I now know that it's a very universal experience, but back in the day when I would get stuck, it would feel very much like a personal failing.Like I was falling short.I couldn't get it together.I couldn't figure it out.
And that was like really lonely and isolating and kept me stuck longer than I needed to be.
And it's when I started having these conversations, when I started talking about the stuckness and like what you just said, I have not met anyone that hasn't experienced their own season of stuck or like the many, many seasons of stuck.
And so I saw myself mirrored in other people's stories and started doing research around stuckness and how to get myself unstuck.And it was in that process that I was like, hmm, this could be a really interesting thing to explore in a podcast.
Yeah.And so now that is what I'm doing.Yeah.And it's great.You've had so many great conversations over on your podcast as well.
And as somebody that you're a writer, you're a freelance business owner, writer, and you have felt it from all angles, personally, professionally, things like that.Where do you feel like stuck comes into being a business owner so much?
So many different places.As a business owner, I can speak for myself and in the conversations that I've had with other business owners, I think that the main place that business owners get stuck is in fear.That can manifest in a few different ways.
So I think that we as business owners, we get stuck in fear of judgment, like being a business owner, whatever your craft is, whether you're a writer, you're creating products, you are building apps, whatever the case may be, you're putting yourself out there when you start a business.
And that is an inherently vulnerable thing.If you put yourself out there, you are opening yourself up to be judged.
And for a lot of people, the fear of that judgment can keep them stuck either in not starting a business at all or not trying something new in their business, not trying to grow their business.So I think that's a big one.I think
fear of failure is obviously a big one.When we start a business, we want it to thrive and the fear that it won't can keep us stuck in inaction.
And then the inverse of that also, which is maybe an unexpected one, but I think that we can get stuck in the fear of success. Yeah, for sure.Right?
We can get comfortable with the status quo and the thought of leveling up can feel really scary and so we get stuck just kind of doing what we know is kind of working right now and then we don't take our businesses to the next level.
And then I think the last place that fear can really manifest as stuckness as a business owner is self-doubt and criticism.Who am I to build this thriving business?Who am I to be so successful?Can I do this?Do I have what it takes?
I don't know about you, but the mental gymnastics around that have kept me stuck for literal years in my business.
Yeah.Well, just like the imposter syndrome of like, okay, why does somebody want to listen to me?Why would somebody want to buy from me?Who am I to think that this is something I can do?
And I think it is, it's more of the stories that we tell ourselves and our brains are wired to keep us comfortable, keep us where we're at, where it doesn't allow us to really move into, okay, how do we get unstuck from where we are?
How do we get uncomfortable? weren't wired that way.
The story element, it really all comes back to the stories that we tell ourselves.The stories that we tell ourselves are what wire our brains.
When we wire our brains in such a way that we're in a place of stuckness, it can be really hard to shake ourselves out of that experience and get through the inertia and find our way forward. challenging but possible.
Yeah 100% and it's like what do you feel like is our tools or resources that people really use from having conversations and working yourself through it to kind of get into that unstuck to actually move yourself and kind of change those internal stories?
I am still, I consider myself so fortunate that I get to have these incredible conversations with these incredible people with incredible minds that I get to learn from because again, I'm not, you know, an expert.
I'm just a person that has felt stuck so often that is just like, Ugh, I wanna know more about how to get unstuck.And I've been really lucky to talk to some really amazing people.
One of the most interesting tips that I have heard on how to navigate stuckness is from one of my guests.Her name is Britt Frank.She is a therapist and the author of a book called The Science of Stuck.If you have not read it, highly recommend.
She goes into what is actually happening in the brain and the body when we experience this experience of stuck.
And one of her big tips is that as business owners, as people, I think that we can get caught up in this idea that change has to be big, that there are these overarching themes or big steps that we have to take to get from point A to point B, when the reality is when you're stuck,
just thinking about those big leaps can feel overwhelming.For sure.So Brit's strategy is what she calls micro yeses.
So a micro yes is, what is the smallest thing that I can say yes to in this moment that will move me in the direction that I want to go?Yeah. Yes.
And then over time, those micro yeses compound and you get further and further and then you end up at point B, but you do it in a way that is signaling to your brain with every yes, okay, we're moving into a place of change.
And so you don't run into that same resistance that can often be associated with stuckness.
I love that.And I think that can go from creating content, creating a collection.When I was building out my bus, I remember sitting there seeing like this dilapidated, empty bus and being like, wow, I got to turn this into a home.
And I didn't work for like three or four weeks.I was just kind of like staring at it.
What's step one and instead of looking from A to Z, you look from A to B, B to C, C to D and how can we just constantly move one step further where it doesn't mean that you have to all of a sudden build this massive community or have this full collection or sell out by in the next month.
You need to figure out how to just get that much better.
and then celebrate those steps that make you that much better.I think that we also, as a culture, only want to recognize these huge wins, but to your point, those huge wins are a lot of small wins that that build up over time.
So I think if we as business owners and really just if we as people can find a way to recognize and celebrate ourselves for those small steps of progress, I mean that's the key to getting unstuck because then you don't have to get to the final point to feel that unstuckness.
You can celebrate the process and the progress and that sense of freedom is what I associate with feeling unstuck.
It's like the enjoying of the journey and the process, as opposed to just like that cheesy quote of the destination is because if you are, I mean, you see all of these people, it's like the overnight successes are like, where did this pop star come out of nor come out of nowhere.
And you look at their history and they have been doing the same thing for 12 years, trying to get to where they are, where if they would have given up after year one, year two, year three of it not working, you had to kind of keep going of going through the stuck periods through of not really seeing the results.
through seeing little wins, you have a little bit more people showing up, you have a couple more sales to be able to get to the point of you blowing up overnight.
Yeah, it's like that idea of the iceberg, right?You only see the tip.You don't see the huge amount of work and sacrifice and failure and restarting that led to that success at the end.
So yeah, I think that celebrating all of those successes is really key to not only getting unstuck, but staying unstuck.
Yeah, and I think it helps with the fears as well, is because so many fears do pop up, they're naturally going to pop up.
And I've said this before, is like being a business owner is such a massive personal growth endeavor, because your fears are naturally gonna be there, your insecurities are gonna pop up, because it feels like we are birthing our own child in this like entity that we have.
And how do you really feel like showing up despite the fears?Like they can be there, but like we still have to go and do the same thing.
So I love, again, I'm gonna bring in another book.I'm a big reader and I find a lot of my inspiration and my own strategies within those books.
Big Magic is a book about creativity by Elizabeth Gilbert and she has this amazing analogy where she talks about her creativity being like a road trip.She's in a car and the fear is in the car with her and she says to fear, You are welcome here.
You can ride along.I will acknowledge you, but you don't get to touch the radio.You don't have a voice.So I'm not going to pretend that fear is not here, but I am not going to let the fear drive me.
There are lots of different strategies in order to do that and I think everybody is different.
For me, I find journaling and writing, I'm a writer so that makes sense, to be a really helpful way to work through the natural fears and insecurities that come up as I am working on my business, working through stuckness associated with businesses.
Literally, one of the tools that I find really helpful, and this might sound a little out there, but I will often write letters to my present self from my future self.
Yeah, if I'm feeling afraid in a moment, or I'm feeling unsure of a decision, or if I'm feeling stuck and I don't know the best next place to go, I will literally sit down
take a pen and paper and I will start writing myself a letter and I will try to tap into the future version of myself that has already figured this out.And what would she say to me in this moment?
And that could be a really great way to like unwind some of those fears and tap into our own wisdom, which we all have. We all have that inside of us.That future self that already has everything figured out, they already exist.
It's just about tapping into their wisdom.That can be a great tool if you're feeling stuck in the fear, just to be like, I'm going to ride it out.
Yeah, I like that.That's kind of like reverse of what I feel like people are told where it's like, you know, write, write letters to your future self and like try to visualize who that person is.It's not that you're visualizing them.
You're like tapping into what advice they would tell you at this moment.I love that.
I think that's, and like kind of just being able to see what advice you can kind of tap into that, like inner knowing that you, we all, like you said, we all have, we just need to kind of see, okay, we know what
what we need to do in order to get there, but what would the person that is there tell us now?Exactly.
And this is just my own belief, but the way that I think about it is that these future versions of myself actually exist in a different time and space.And they are just waiting for me, the current version of me, to grow into them.
And so I can tap into that for comfort, for advice, for direction, to work through stuckness, through fear.And that has been a really incredible tool in my business.I am a writer.
This is an industry that is changing dramatically in the wake of economic conditions, generative AI, a million things that I could list.And I felt really stuck for months on like, okay, how do I move my business forward?
in this climate that is like really keeping me kind of like in a box.Yeah.And it was through that like, okay, let's think about a time where we have already worked this out.Like what steps would we have taken?
Like what would we say to ourselves to kind of like calm these fears and figure out a way forward?Yes.
I think that's so good of like you already exist in at that.
You just have to make changes and grow yourself into who that person would be and allowing that person to come in and say, these are the things that you need to do just from your own kind of inner knowing.
I think so many of us know what the process kind of looks like, but it's like the paralyzation of like looking at, okay, these are so many things.Like how does my life have to change in order to make that happen?
And like you said, I think a lot of people think we have to reinvent our entire self.
We have to reinvent who we are, our own routines in order to make those things happen, where it can really be making small tweaks now, the things that are attainable for us to make now that we are just holding ourselves back.
Totally.And then I think the other piece of it, and this has been, I think, the most helpful thing for me as a business owner, and again, as a person, as I move through my life and navigating stuckness,
like the stuckness that came from my industry changing and work looking different. I think the biggest gift that we can give ourselves is the permission to change.You don't have to be the person that you were yesterday.
You don't have to have the business that you had yesterday.It is okay to pivot.It is okay to follow curiosities.It is okay to follow instinct where you think you're supposed to go.We don't have to lock ourselves in these boxes.
That is the definition of stuck. I am here and this is the only place that I can be."
If we can give ourselves permission to step out of that box and just take a step forward in any given direction and allow who we are going to be and what our businesses are going to look like to evolve naturally.
I think that that is the most easeful way through the fear to the unstuckness.
Yes, 100%.As we've said, I think a lot of stuckness comes from that fear of who will we be if this happens?What will happen if this doesn't work?A lot of it comes down to those what ifs in life.
It's like, what if this doesn't work or what if it does work?Then who the heck am I going to be when I'm uber successful?What if I put all this money into it and it doesn't happen for me or whatever?
How do you, when you kind of have those feelings pop up, I guess you've said the letters and you're writing to yourself, you're stepping into it, but in the moment, I think there's so much evidence even of celebrities like famous, whatever, influencers, all of these people that have these stories where they're like, you know, I'm still scared and I'm still showing up anyway.
Do you feel like it's a piece of, I think a common thing is like, you know, just be delusional and keep kind of keep just like being delusional and showing up or do you feel like there's more intentionality behind it?
That's a great question.I absolutely relate to the what if train.I find myself on that train often.Me too.And here's the thing. There is no guarantee for success in business, right?You're putting yourself out there and it's not risk-free.
There, of course, is a chance that it's not going to work out.Those thoughts and those fears, when they come up, what if I do all of this work and it doesn't work out?What if I put myself out there and people judge me?
What if I'm not good enough to do the things that I want to do?Those are real fears, right? but what if you are good enough?Like what if you are successful?
What if you put it out there and people like absolutely love it and think what you're doing is amazing.
So I think anytime a what if comes up that plays into fear, I think counteracting it with a what if that highlights success and possibility, like it can almost like negate each other and make it easier to keep showing up.So it's, I don't think,
I think it's important not to suppress fear because anything you suppress will come back stronger.I think it's important to acknowledge it because those fears are real.But then I think it's also important to have a strategy to counteract it.
And that's where the, what if I'm wildly successful?What if this business is everything that I wanted it to be?What if I really make a difference?Like those what ifs. leading into those.
Yeah.When you feel it kind of flipping it on its head and taking the awareness of it and be like, but what if it does?And on the flip side of that is like, what if you never do anything that's that scary and you just kind of stay where you are?
Like, how does that, how is that, how is that going to feel?It's like staying exactly where you are forever or chasing the feeling of being a little out of your comfort zone and like chasing fears.
Cause on the other side of chasing those fears is a lot of happiness and can be a lot of success, a lot of freedom, a lot of purpose and fulfillment and change.And that can be better than staying exactly where you are forever.
Well, I think that's the biggest fear of all, right?Is of never growing, never evolving, at least for entrepreneurs.There is a reason that entrepreneurs get into the space of building businesses.
It is this innate drive that is within you to build, to create, to expand.And so, at least for me, the biggest fear of all is what you just said.How scary would it be if I just never did anything?
And I just like stayed comfortable and just like was exactly how I am today forever and ever and nothing changes.That to me is the biggest fear.
Yeah, me too.And like people saying they're like, no, I just want to get a job and work for 25 years and retire and like call it good.I'm like, Oh my gosh, that sounds so scary.
And that's when you start to say is like, wow, like I was built to be a business owner.I am like, I was created for this purpose.You have to chase it.If those are the feelings that you have, like you have to, who would you be if you didn't chase it?
Exactly.And there's nothing wrong with that.I want to work a job for 25 years and retire.But if you have the entrepreneurial bug, if you have that entrepreneurial spirit, that's not going to feel satisfying.You want that uncertainty.
You want that possibility of what could it be like?As an entrepreneur, by definition, you are envisioning a world that is different from the world that you're living in now.And that pursuit is the entrepreneurial journey.
And yes, there's fear, there's stuckness, there's challenges along the way, but it's in navigating those that you're able to bring that vision of the world to life.And that's like a privilege.
For sure.And I think Like you said, we are innately built for this.When you have these characteristics, there's nothing wrong with feeling like you want to work a corporate job for 25 years or whatever.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to be a stay-at-home mom.
But if you feel that innate drive to create something, have a project forever, bring something into this world that isn't around before, who would you be to push it aside and say, ooh, sorry, Joanne down the street is going to judge me.
I probably shouldn't do that.
And I think something else that is really helpful in staying connected to that, because it can be hard in the face of fear.
You have that innate drive in you, but sometimes that feeling can be drowned out by the fear and uncertainty and judgment and people having comments about what are you doing, leaving your job, whatever the case may be.
I think another really helpful tool in navigating that stuckness is have a person, hopefully people, but at least one person that believes in you that can remind you of who you are when you can't see it for yourself. Yes.
Someone else who when you're feeling caught up in self-doubt or fear or like don't know the way forward, a person that can look at you and say, this is who you are.This is what you're meant to do.You have got this.
I know it feels scary, but I am behind you 100%.Yes. can carry you forward in the moments when you feel like you can't carry yourself forward.
Yes.Every ambitious person needs another ambitious person to be like, no, this isn't crazy.You're not, you're not thinking too big.You like, I have a friend that says like, she'll say to me, she's like, Maddie, I want to be famous.
And like, I've always just wanted to be famous.And she's like, I'm going to make it happen somehow.And you can say that to like the wrong person and they'll shoot you down and be like, who do you think you are?
And then you can say that to somebody else and they'll be like, heck yeah.Like what can we do?How do we make it happen?And you need to have at least one person that is like a ride or die person.
And if you don't have that yet, it's like getting into rooms of other people that are ambitious, that do have big goals, that do have entrepreneurial spirits.Because if you can find one, you are so much better off.
And like, if you can find people, it is such a blessing.And it's something that people say in my programs too, is like, they're like, they get into communities with other business owners and sometimes people just didn't even
understand that there were other people that have the same feelings, the same beliefs, the same struggles, the same fears that they have, where you can relate to each other on a different front because not everybody is going to want to have the big goals that you have.
Yeah.Every dreamer needs a dreamer, right?To reinforce that your dreams are valid, right?And that no one's going to say, oh, your head's in the clouds.You're thinking too big.You need at least a person there to say, no, dream bigger.You've got this.
I think you can see something that always helped me is seeing the fear in people that are achieving really big things.My people know, I've said it on your podcast as well, I am somebody that looks at the achievement as that's the end goal.
I'm a three on the Enneagram to the end of the day.It is who I am. And I think a lot of times you can look at like, you know, again, looking at the celebrities, looking at big business owners, CEOs, where they will all say, Oh yeah, it was scary.
Like scary as hell.Like, Oh, like I saw Margot Robbie when all the Barbie stuff was going on.She's like, I'm going to go crawl into a hole for like three years.Cause everybody's sick of seeing my face when nobody was saying that.
But like, she put that on herself.She felt the imposter syndrome of like, who am I to be playing Barbie?That's not something that, and so you can see these people that are in, that are in big crowds that are like doing the things that all of us see.
And we're like, wow, that would be so great.And they still have the fears, but the differences is that they just kept showing up.They just kept doing the things they kept trying to say, you know what, I'm going to keep doing it.
And like, it is gonna, it's gonna happen for me and trying to make it happen as opposed to allowing the fear to keep you where you're at.
Also, if Margot Robbie is struggling with self-doubt, we all struggle with self-doubt, right?I know, I know.That can honestly sometimes be really affirming.For sure.
Knowing that super successful, super talented people who are doing these really big things in the world, that they struggle with the same things that we as business owners, as builders, which is what I really see business owners as.We are builders.
that they are struggling with the same fear and insecurity and self-doubt and all of those things like that can actually be really reassuring because it's like, no, there's proof that you can be wildly successful more than your wildest dream.Yes.
Um, despite all of this. those fears.
that in my life kind of allowed me to be like, okay, like nothing is too big for me to handle as long as I can like work my way through it is because these people are still feeling the same feelings.
I'm feeling people that have achieved what I am trying to achieve still feel it.That's great.That means that I'm not behind.
Nothing's wrong with me as long as I can make the, make the effort, make the changes, get whatever, take the time to get there.It like something will come of it. Absolutely.Yeah, I love it.Well, this was so wonderful.Where can people find you?
Where can people listen to more conversations?
Yeah, so you can find Season of Stuck on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.You can also visit seasonofstuck.com to sign up to get episodes delivered directly to your inbox and also get access to more Stuck-related content.
And we're on Instagram, at seasonofstuck.Perfect.Thank you so much for being here.This was so wonderful.Thank you so much, Maddie.This was amazing.
What a wonderful conversation talking about fears, talking about stuckness, and really just how to navigate those limiting beliefs that pop up in our heads.
It's inevitable for it to happen to each and every one of us, and this was such a wonderful conversation with Deanna.
If you want more information on topics like this, how to navigate it from experts, as well as just more stories about how to get unstuck, make sure that you go and listen to her new podcast, Season of Stuck.
You can find it anywhere that you listen to podcasts and she's on Instagram as well.The links will be in the show notes.Thank you so much for tuning in today.I love you.I'm rooting for you.I'm in your corner always.I'll see you in the next episode.
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