No Jumper, coolest podcast in the world.And today I'm bringing you guys an interview very outside our usual realm of expertise.We have Lucila Bloom on the podcast.How you doing?
Hi, thanks for having me.
Yeah.Nice to have you out here.What, uh, what brings you to LA?You're doing a little bit of the media rounds today, I take it?
Well, I live and work in LA.Oh, but I am doing a lot of media interviews about the Sean Combs cases, right?Because I represent a couple of the victims.
So yeah, I mean, this is kind of the, the main thing that I wanted to talk to you about is we've been just kind of having this conversation and seeing it steadily progress within hip hop in terms of, you know, I think that there's been like a real change in tone where at first it felt like almost the mainstream hip hop opinion was like, Oh,
another one of our legendary great performers slash executives kind of being railroaded and dragged unfairly, etc.
And then as more and more information has come out and more and more victims have come out, it feels like people are beginning to take it more and more seriously.When did you actually get involved in this?
So, first of all, I understand that reaction, that emotional reaction, because I've been representing victims of sexual assault for 38 years.And I've had people that I really admire end up being accused of things and convicted.
And it is very disturbing.You know, we want to believe that our icons, our heroes are wonderful people, or at least not villains.
And it's a whole process that we all have to go through, I think, mentally to really hear the victims, to hear what they're saying, to understand why it takes so long for them to come forward, as in the case of Sean Combs.
How I got involved is the way I always get involved as an attorney representing victims, is people reached out to me and said, can you help?
And I vet the cases, which means my team and I do a very thorough investigation into the claims, into the person who's coming to me, into what evidence they have, what witnesses they have.
We reject most of the cases that come to us because they don't meet our high standards.And some of them we do accept.And Dawn Richard is one that I have accepted.
Dawn Richard is a very brave woman who worked with Sean Combs for many years on making the band. back in 2004, the band Danity Kane, Diddy Dirty Money.
I interviewed Aubrey O'Day a while back.
Soon after the Puff allegations started to come out, but before any formal charges or anything.
Yeah. So I just, I'm a huge fan of Dawn.She's very brave.She's all about the music.This is the last thing she wanted to do.
She didn't want to come forward and be accusing Sean Combs of sex trafficking and sexual assault and false imprisonment and everything that's in our complaint.
But she was very inspired by Cassie Ventura's courage in filing that lawsuit about a year ago.And even though that was settled the very next day, it's all out there in black and white in her complaint.
And then we saw that horrible video, which I'm sure you've seen, Adam, of Sean Combs beating Cassie Ventura in a hallway, kicking her when she was down on the ground, dragging her back to a party that she says she didn't want to be at.
So, I mean, that's horrific.You know, if people are consensually at a party having a good time, you know, have a great time.That's great.But nobody should be forced to be somewhere they don't want to be.People should be allowed to leave.
People should not be drugged.
Yeah, I think for sure that video was the moment where everybody was like, ah, OK, there's no way that we're going to not be able to take this.
Right.Exactly.You know, and sometimes it takes a video like that.And if you think about that video is in the public area of a hotel, a hotel hallway.If that's what he does in a public area in a hallway, what is he doing behind closed doors?Right.
And when you add that dozens and dozens of people have now come forward with stories, many of them with photos, with videos, with evidence, with emails, with texts, you know, and of course the U.S.
government has chosen to criminally prosecute him after raiding two of his homes, getting the hard drives, getting his computers, getting his phones, which I'm sure had a lot of evidence, the famous thousand bottles of baby oil.I mean,
There's a mountain of evidence and a lot of accusers here.
You said that there's a very high bar before you'd be willing to take somebody's case.Describe what that bar might be.
Well, I can't take a case against somebody like Sean Combs, who I know is going to have huge lawyers, unlimited resources.This is what I do.I always go up against billionaire bullies, so I'm used to it.
But it can't just be my client's word against the other person's word.There has to be evidence.We have the burden of proof.I do civil cases for money damages.So we don't have the beyond a reasonable doubt standard that exists in the criminal
realm, but we still have to prove our case by a preponderance of evidence.What that means is we have the burden of proof.So I have to have some kind of evidence.A lot of times people who are sexually abused don't go to the police.
I don't really expect them to, especially against somebody like Sean Combs, who's so powerful. But I do expect that they told somebody at the time that they have some evidence at least to put them at the place and time where they say they were.
You say you were at, you know, a freak-off in New York in 2008.Show me something that you were at least in New York in 2008.Show me a calendar.Show me a phone ticket.Show me a credit card receipt, something. And the more the better, obviously.
The more outlandish the allegations, the more evidence we're going to need because, as you say, people initially hear something like this and they think, you know, I don't want to believe it.It sounds crazy.I always admired this guy.
So we really need evidence to prove our cases.
Right, okay.And so there's no real statute of limitations when it comes to a civil suit?
No, there is.And that, for people who don't know, those are the time limits to file a case, and that's every predator's best friend, right?It's a get-out-of-jail-free card.
If you can just run out the clock, you don't go to jail, or you don't have to pay a civil penalty.But thankfully,
The state legislatures, especially in California and New York, have expanded the time in recent years because they understand that victims need more time.
You know, if somebody grabs your wallet and runs, you're probably going to call the police right away.But if somebody sexually assaults you, especially somebody you know, you admire, you work with, you're probably not going to report it.
And it's going to take time.And the law understands that.So, what is the statute of limitations?There is additional time in both California and New York.In California, you have 10 years or three years from the time you connect in your mind
the incident and the psychological injury.So, what that means... I was just talking to a client yesterday about this.
So, what that means is a lot of people walk around knowing they were sexually assaulted, but they never really connected it to their sexual problems, to their depression, their anxiety, until many years later, perhaps when they're in therapy or they're just older, more centered, more grounded and they can really start putting the pieces together in their mind.
And so, that's when the clock might start ticking, is the moment that you realize that you've incurred some trauma from this?
Yes, that you make that psychological connection that's in California and then in New York in New York City There's also an expanded statute of limitations Which is currently basically you can go back as far as you want to go for incidents that happened in New York City Interesting.
Okay, and so I guess you probably can't say that much about it but what what is the essence of what dawn is alleging that Diddy's involvement with her was because Audrey a day was kind of
Standoffish about letting out too much information and even like I mean She claimed that she had received, you know calls from Diddy's lawyers offering her money to not come on this podcast the morning before she came on the podcast which obviously wasn't able to Authenticate that but she seemed like she was very concerned about and there was stuff We had to edit out because she was nervous about it coming out, etc.
Yeah.So Dawn alleges that she was exploited in a number of ways.I mean, one way is that she simply wasn't paid for her work properly over the years, that she was really exploited in that way.
But she also alleges sexual harassment, that she was sexually assaulted, that she witnessed a lot of violence.And that was part of the reason why she didn't come forward for so long was because she was afraid.
And again, we talked about the video that we saw of Cassie being beaten.So she alleges she saw a lot of incidents of Cassie being physically assaulted and others being physically assaulted.
She says that she was personally threatened if she ever came forward, you know, bad things would happen to her and the people she loved.She was locked in a car.That's the false imprisonment claim.She was locked in a hotel room, not allowed to leave.
She was groped and grabbed.
You know threatened over and over again that during the time that she worked on making the band You know literally he did not allow the women to eat For long periods of time because he wanted them to be skinny You know I mean, it's just a horrendous series of workplace abuses up to and including sexual assault
Some of this stuff sounds like it would be kind of hard to prove.Like for instance, the, you know, people not being allowed to eat, I guess you could find witnesses, people who are involved with the production who would be able to testify to that.
Um, the idea of somebody being locked in a hotel room, you know, 15, 20 years ago, it feels like that would be kind of hard to prove.
Well, Dawn's testimony is evidence.And I always remind women, because it's usually women who are victims of these things that I represent, that a woman's testimony is evidence in a court of law.And even standing alone, it can be sufficient.
Yes, I like to have additional evidence to back it up.But I think when Dawn takes the stand, and of course, other witnesses will come in to corroborate, I think she will be believed. And I look forward to taking Sean Combs' deposition.
That will be coming, hopefully, in the next few months.I may have to go to prison in New York to take it there, which is fine with me.
And so how would that work?You basically get to sit down with him and ask him whatever you like for a period of many hours?
That's exactly right.So we sit around a table like this.He's sworn to tell the truth.It's the same oath that you take in a court of law.There's a court reporter who takes it down.
There's a videographer and I ask him questions that are relevant to the case and he's required to answer my questions.
And so he has to take part in this.There's no chance for him to duck it or avoid it as I'm sure he would like to.
I'm sure he will duck it and avoid it and delay it and his attorneys will do everything possible.But ultimately every party in a lawsuit has to sit for a deposition.Uh, so you, you can't get out of it.
You can delay, but you can't get out of it entirely.
Okay.And so, you know, this is one thing that I commented on the podcast recently, which is that when I take a look at all of the things that might eventually come down on puff from a, a, a federal perspective,
seems like the things that he's most likely to not be able to avoid are the things that we might not find as objectionable on a moral level and specifically I was referring to the transporting of drugs which is you know that seems like something that he's almost certainly guilty of is like employing people where it was basically part of their job to be
transporting large amounts of drugs that are probably being consumed at these freak ops and that's to say nothing of the Allegations that they were being administered against anybody's will or whatever, right?
if you've got guys working for you and they're helping you to transport large amounts of molly or whatever then you're Probably that that seems pretty clear-cut and then also just the prostitution thing is that if you've got women who are being paid for their Services and they're being flown all over the country or along with you on these trips and stuff that that seems like another thing It's gonna be really hard for him to avoid that and you don't have to
care about anybody's testimony to make those charges stick.Is that an accurate description?
Well, yes and no.So I think you're right.Those are easiest to prove, but that's not really what he's being accused of in the federal criminal case.And certainly not in our case.
And by the way, our case, we filed it a week before the criminal case and the criminal case really mirrored the allegations in our case.And that was a coincidence. Yeah.I mean, I would think it was a coincidence.
It's not really a coincidence in that a lot of people are making the same allegations that Sean Combs.Maybe that's because it's true.
So he's not really accused of drug charges.He certainly isn't in our case.I think drugs should be legal.I don't care if adults want to do whatever drugs, that's their body.They can do whatever they want.The issue, as you point out, is consent.
And clearly nobody should be tricked into doing drugs, forced into doing drugs.It should always be consensual.And the same thing with sex.I don't really care about prostitution.If that's what adults want to do, I think it should be legal.
It's their body, they should have a good time.But nobody should be coerced into prostitution as a condition of, say, getting a recording contract. You know, you're obviously very familiar with the music industry.
My intersection with the music industry is always in sexual harassment and sexual assault cases.And in my opinion, the music industry is probably tied with the fashion industry for the worst treatment of women.
that women are overly sexualized, they're forced into sexual relationships they don't want to be in.
Years later they come back and they say, you know, I was drugged against my will, I was forced, I was told I wouldn't have a future if I ever spoke out against this guy.
And the Me Too movement is long overdue to hit the music industry and the fashion industry. In the same way, it has really hit the movie, film, gaming industry.And I think they've really cleaned up their act with regard to women.
But with the music industry, I mean, women are just still very much objects tossed around, treated like second class citizens.And there's a lot of people out there who have really been hurt by it.
Why do you think the music industry is so behind Hollywood in that regard?
I think there's sort of this, you know, rock and roll attitude of, you know, we're bad boys.We're going to do whatever we want.And I mean, look, I'm a huge music fan.I love that kind of edgy aspect of the music industry.
But it's, I can tell you that there's a lot of women out there who have been really hurt.And I don't think the music industry has taken the Me Too movement seriously.And perhaps this will force it, you know.
There have been some Some cases but for the most part, I think the music industry has turned a blind eye to sexual assault.
Hmm interesting Okay, and so in terms of Diddy's Possibility of having his career returned to normal Do you think that there's any chance of that or from your perspective is as that shit pretty much sailed?I
I think he's in prison for the rest of his life.And I think he should be because I know what the victim's stories are and how many women he has harmed and men, but mostly women.And you know, the fact that he was denied bail is huge.
Most people get bail and Why was he denied bail?Because the prosecution argued and the judge agreed that he was tampering with witnesses.And that was in my case.So what happened in my case was we filed Dawn Richard's complaint.
A couple of days later, only one person spoke out publicly against Dawn and basically said she was a liar.
That person, it turns out, the government, because they had tapped Diddy's phone, Diddy had had over a hundred contacts with her between the day we filed the complaint and the day she spoke out against my client.After that, there were zero.
So it certainly looks like, and the government argued, he was trying to get her to come out publicly and make a statement to slam my client, Don Richard.It looks like he's tampering with witnesses.
And he personally was doing it.It's not like he had somebody to work for him.
He personally was doing it.And they also had a recording of him saying, you know, I know the government's tapping my phone.I can't really talk to you.Okay.So, I mean, the guy's not as bright as he probably thinks he is.Okay.
I think he was riding a tidal wave of ego for like the past 20 or 30 years.
It feels like there's so many decisions that he made that if he had been in any way, really like concerned about his future, or if he had been, if he had been as risk adverse as the average person is that he probably wouldn't have done a lot of these things.
Um, I think you're right.I think he riding the tide of ego is a very good way of putting it.I know that the feds also got a lot of drugs in the hotel room when they came and arrested him.
I don't know what, which is also kind of shocking because you'd think that if you were going to New York because you knew that you were about to be arrested, that you would probably, I don't know, maybe even just keep your drugs in someone else's hotel room.
Yes, but I mean, I think he's probably an addict, and so he probably wasn't thinking clearly.And if he hadn't hurt so many women, I would have sympathy for him as an addict, but I don't have any sympathy for him.
And yeah, I think he's going to be in prison for the rest of his life.I was surprised that the government argued he should not get bail.
I thought he would get home confinement and he would have to pay for it and that's what happens a lot and that's not what happened.The government said he should not get bail.They had a good argument with this witness tampering and the judge agreed.
He's appealing that, you know, maybe it'll get reversed on appeal.Probably not because he's being prosecuted under the Trafficking Victims Protection Act, which is the TVPA on the criminal side.
I do a lot of TVPA cases on the civil side and the presumption in TVPA cases is that you don't get bail. So he's in jail, of course he has to be convicted in order to get a prison sentence.
I think the evidence is probably overwhelming because they got his hard drives.
And so we've seen a large percentage of the music industry basically remaining completely quiet about this.I think part of that is just like this hip-hop code of
Sort of respect and bros before hoes or whatever it might be and that's not really wanting to throw shade at another fellow black man successful guy um But then the other theory that a lot of people are constantly floating is that so many people are gonna be Implicated in this that there's so many other celebrities who've been present at these parties and possibly even like Coerced so that someone like Diddy could have incriminating information about them.
Um, do you think that's likely?
Yeah, let me just first say I do understand the sentiment of not wanting to throw shade at another black man.And I represented a lot of Black Lives Matter protesters a couple years ago who were assaulted by the police.I'm very sympathetic.
But what about the black women?You know, Don Richard is a black woman.Most of his victims are black women. So, I don't really think the race issue comes into it.
With regard to people who were complicit, we allege in our complaint 20 different individuals and entities who we say were enablers.
And the government, in its complaint that was filed a week after ours, also says that there were a lot of people who were co-conspirators.That's the language for a criminal case.
And I think it's time for us all to recognize that these guys don't work alone.Nobody could have this scale of assault and abuse if they just did it by themselves.So, I represented 11 victims of Jeffrey Epstein.You might remember him.
a predator who also harmed a lot of women.And he had basically a criminal operation with Ghislaine Maxwell, his number two, who recruited women because women will trust another woman more than will trust a man.
And she would bring women into the operation for him to abuse.She's now serving time in prison probably for the rest of her life. So, similarly with Diddy, you know, this was a vast operation of, as you say, people, a lot of people around him.
If it was just him, you know, he could have abused a few people, but not hundreds or even thousands, which is what I think this is going to turn out to be, including women at the highest levels who would bring people in for him.
And, you know, lawyers covering it up with NDAs and publicists and people getting paid off all the time to hide things.I mean, apparently that hotel video, somebody was approached to the hotel or something.
Yeah, I don't know if they actually paid it or they were approached to pay it, but somebody leaked it anyway.Thank goodness, right?
And I'm sure that you know you talked about his ego I'm sure that over the years people were just paying off people after he did bad things and he just kept getting away with it and and yeah, I think that creates a real psychology of Narcissism of I can just do anything that I want to anyone and get away with it because he did for so long
And he paid Cassie something like $50 million to basically make that suit go away.He's a very, very rich man, but if there's even 10 or a couple dozen accusers, he can't give them all 50 million.It seems like that's probably not on the table.
Has there been a discussion with any of your clients that he would be willing to make an arrangement with them or?
No, we've had no discussion.I don't know that he paid Cassie $50 million, but that wouldn't surprise me.Um, and the biggest mistake he made was letting her file that complaint, because that's really what unleashed everything afterwards.
Offered up to him that he could have made that go away.And his lawyers basically said, no, go off, file the lawsuit.
Exactly.And that was the biggest mistake.If he had settled with her before she filed the complaint, I think he would not be in the position he's in today, but the complaint is out there.
He settled the next day, but he can't take the complaint off of the internet, right?And that led, I think, to the government investigation, to so many more victims coming forward.It certainly was a big catalyst for my client, Don Richard, who
You know again, she just wants to make music.She's on tour right now.
She's got millions of social media followers She's she's very successful and she just wants to be an artist and make music But she said I can not be silent anymore and and no we haven't talked to the other side about money We're talking to them about getting him served in prison, which is taking longer than it should we've got most of the 20 defendants served now and
And we're going forward.This is, of course, yes, it's about getting her compensated for her injuries and for the money he owes her, but it's about so much more for her.
It's about accountability, her being believed, justice, people seeing who Sean Combs really is.
Um, I was on a conversation with a friend of mine the other day and he was planning on going on vacation with some of his friends and they were planning on basically flying out some women who may or may not be escorts from another country to spend time with them while they were on vacation.
And because there's so much talk about sex trafficking in the media, they had second thoughts and they canceled these plans.And he was telling me about this.
And I was a little skeptical in the sense of like, it seems like something absolutely terrible would have to take place in order for there to be any kind of investigation in this regard.
And I was like, you know, as long as you're not making it terribly explicit that you're paying these women to have sex with you, you can just be paying them to spend time with you.
And it's unlikely that there's going to be any kind of record that would be able to directly prove that you're paying them for sex.
What has to happen in order for a situation to be considered sex trafficking because I think that there's a little bit of a panic amongst certain men that like almost all Sexual behavior in terms of just like if you like I had somebody on the podcast recently trying to tell me that if you fly a woman out To have sex that that's sex trafficking.
I think you've got the wrong idea about how this works.I
I wouldn't do it.I wouldn't advise them to do it.And, you know, there may be a panic among men, but women are being sexually assaulted at like one in three women, one in four women.It's devastating.
It can have profound effects on women for the rest of our lives. You know, if we go out at night, we have to have somebody walk with us.If we have a drink in a bar, we have to keep an eye on it.
You know, men may have to think twice about flying out escorts.I assure you it's much harder for women.
What the definition of sex trafficking is, is basically recruiting or enticing women for sexual purposes when it's... I'm trying to say it in plain language and not in legalese.Right.
Tricking somebody saying it's one thing like come in and we're gonna give you a recording contract and then really you're expected to have sex Yes, prostitution is illegal in virtually everywhere in the u.s So if you're flying them out to have sex with you that could be considered sex trafficking.
I wouldn't do it Why can't you just meet a woman in the town who?Consents to having sex with you and you don't have to pay her Is that so difficult?
Well, many women would say yes.Yeah.And I mean, I think a lot of, you know, rich guys are kind of attracted to that sort of arrangement.
Well, I would suggest that they should comply with the law, uh, cause, uh, it's probably a better course for them.
I have a lot of female friends who are escorts and I see the way that they sort of explain it on their websites where they're very specific about never having anything being put into writing that you know could be used to prove that they were actually being paid for
sexual services, which is to protect them, but probably to protect the men as well.And, uh, you know, it just occurs to me that like a lot of dudes are worried about this in situations where they probably don't need to be worried.
And I'm talking obviously about completely consensual arrangements.
I hear you.And again, I think it should be legal.I really don't care what consenting adults want to do with their bodies, but it's not legal. So, why cross that line?You know, I've represented a lot of sex workers, and they are often exploited.
And they're willing, you know, I think it's kind of a new era where they're willing to come forward and stand up for themselves.They're less afraid than they used to be.
I mean, it used to be, oh, you're a sex worker, you can't get involved in the legal system, you know, because you're doing something illegal.No. I mean, there are sex workers who say, I will do these particular sex acts, but not these other acts.
And then the guy forces the other acts, and that's considered rape.And they go to court, and they win.
So I don't think anybody, I wouldn't try to advise somebody how to break the law, how to get around it, how to get sex workers in places where it's illegal.
I think if you're a nice guy, and you're a good looking guy, and you talk to women, and you pay attention, and you smile, You're going to get women the old-fashioned way.
Even just being a good-looking guy, that's kind of a high barrier to entry right there.
Well, I don't know.I'm, you know, I'm not going to give dating advice, but I don't think it should be so difficult.
If it's so difficult to meet a woman that you have to pay women everywhere you go, you might want to consider your life and the choices that you're making.
No, for sure.A lot of these guys probably know that they're not great when it comes to attracting women.I feel like the other main reason why escorting needs to be more, I say escorting, I'm just over here using euphemisms, but
is because a lot of guys have fetishes that were they to bring that to the dating market, it would be very difficult to find somebody who wanted to partake in, let's say, your foot fetish.If you're meeting women at the bar.
But that's what dating apps are for.You put on your profile page what you're into.There's entire dating apps where people have particular fetishes, right?You put it out there, you meet somebody.
Anyway, look, again, consenting adults, I really don't care, but I don't think it should be that difficult.If you have to pay somebody all the time to do the things you want to do, what does that say about you?
Right.OK, I feel you.I'm married.I've never really taken part too much in the whole prostitution thing.
But as I get older, the more I realize that it's so inevitable and that there are, you know, I know so many women who are taking part in this themselves as well, even though I'm a little bit uncomfortable with it.Um, I got familiar with that.
I got familiar with you probably like a lot of people, uh, listening to the daily a few years back when you did an interview in which you were talking about representing Harvey Weinstein.And then that quickly was also reported on that.
You took a step back from that.What were the charges that you were representing him on the basis of, and then what got revealed to you at a certain point that made you want to take a step back?
So I didn't represent him on any charges.I briefly, I don't know, seven years ago now, I think, represented him when the allegations were from some reporters that he had engaged in verbal sexual harassment.
And he came to me and said, you know, can you help me?And I said, are you willing to apologize and change your behavior?And he said, yeah.
And, you know, I know now that he's a sociopath and he's very convincing and he pulled the wool over the eyes of a lot of people, including me, Hillary Clinton and the Obamas.The Obamas sent their daughter to go intern for him.
I mean, if the Secret Service didn't know about Harvey, I didn't know.Right.But as soon as the first woman came out and accused him of sexual assault, I said, I'm out.I don't represent people accused of sexual assault.
There's a lot of attorneys who do that. God bless, they do that.That's their work.I don't do that work.I represent victims.
I occasionally represented men who were accused if I thought the behavior was relatively mild, like just verbal, or I felt like, you know, maybe there was some room for redemption there.
After that case, because I was appalled at all the accusations that came out against him and just shocked, as were, you know, the hundred people who worked with him at the time.
I took my law firm 100% victim side, and that's where we've stayed ever since.We only represent victims.We went from like 95% victim side to now 100%.And I don't want to find out, you know, again, that some guy I represent who I thought was
Basically fine is a monster like Harvey Weinstein, right and may he rot in prison for the rest of his life So that was similar to where we're kind of at with the Diddy thing where if you were to rewind the clock by a couple of months It was a lot easier to take the perspective of like, oh, well, it doesn't seem that bad Maybe this is all overblown.
But then yeah, you know, I'm sure we're still very much in the early days of what will eventually find out about Diddy, especially with those videotapes.That's going to be when it really gets crazy.Yeah.
I mean, look, we don't know until we know.And so when we talk, people have said to me, like, is everybody at the parties, you know, going to be rounded up and go to jail?Well, no, of course not.
I mean, everybody, people went to parties, they wanted to have a good time and they didn't know.And they may have even seen people having sex and they thought it was consensual and they didn't know that somebody was drugged or somebody was being,
exploited or forced into it.So I think we have to be very careful about what people knew, when they knew it.Did they take an act to participate?Were they part of a cover-up?Or were they just people who were kind of around who really didn't know?
That's legally how we have to separate all of this out.
I interviewed one woman fairly recently who basically told me that she went to a Diddy party, that there was a prince that she was spending time with, she felt like this was possibly an attempt to sort of traffic her into the Diddy web that he was spinning, and she made some pretty specific allegations about seeing girls who clearly seemed to be underage at these parties, and that was like one of the most
direct accusations, firsthand account that I've really heard from somebody about what she witnessed at one of these parties.
And she described it as being just a big open area that was separate from the main party, but in which you could clearly see people like consuming large amounts of drugs, orgies taking place in front of everybody.
And when you hear that, that makes you realize that like anybody who had been involved in any level of these freak offs, is not going to be able to come forward.
Because if it says if if the illegal acts are as obvious as they're being underage people, then for sure, nobody's going to admit that they were at any of these parties.
That may be true.And yes, that is deeply disturbing.If there were minors being exploited and some of them have come forward and filed lawsuits now.
I mean, I think we can all agree that, you know, whatever is happening in an orgy with drugs, there should not be any minors involved. So that's very disturbing.And yeah, I don't know.
I think some people are going to have an attack of conscience and they're going to come forward and say, you know what, I was there.I should have stepped forward before.I was scared.I didn't know what to do.I didn't want to get involved.
I didn't want my career to be ruined, but I'm going to step forward now. And people do.People evolve.You know, most people don't want to be involved in the legal system.
I spent a lot of my time trying to get witnesses to come and testify, and we can't pay them.That would be witness bribery.So I just have to try to convince people.And the first reaction is usually, Hell no, I don't want to be involved.
What are you, crazy?It's a little bit better, I think, with Sean Combs because I think most people see what a monster he is now.It's not, there aren't really two sides to this anymore.That helps.
But still, there are other high-ranking people in the music industry that people are afraid of.You know, if I come out, speak out against Diddy, you know, am I going to get a recording deal?Am I going to get blacklisted?
Am I going to get shut out of the industry? People, you know, I mean, it's a natural human instinct to say, I don't want to be involved.I just want to be over here living my life.Why do I have to be a part of this?
And then, of course, we could subpoena people.They don't really have a choice.I have the power to subpoena people.You're served with a subpoena.You have to come in and testify.But I know that if I do that, people are likely to be hostile.
They might clam up.They might say, I don't remember anything.I don't know what you're talking about.So I'd rather we do it the friendly way where they just agree and they come in and they say what they saw.
Mm-hmm.Um, it's a common talking point on the right that essentially everybody in Hollywood in Democratic circles, etc Is essentially a pedophile or involved in this type of thing to some extent.
Do you believe that there are really like mass networks of people in Hollywood that are Doing this sort of crazy behavior like possibly even worse than whatever we've heard about Diddy.I
I don't know about vast networks, but I've been doing these cases for 38 years and a lot of it is in Hollywood.
And, you know, I've heard people make extreme statements about Hollywood and then sometimes it comes true, you know, I mean, over and over again, you know, R. Kelly. I mean, who would have believed that 10 years ago?
In fact, he had been previously tried and acquitted.And he probably thought, okay, I'm good.Similar with Diddy.He had been previously tried on a weapons charge and acquitted.And now look what comes out. horrific scheme with so many victims.
So I'm never surprised.I practice law here in Los Angeles.People come to me every day.Look, the, the CEO of Abercrombie and Fitch, which is fashion, not music, uh, is getting criminally indicted today.
And a lot of people have accused him of a lot of bad stuff.So nothing really surprises me anymore.People come to me with stories of being abused by high profile people in music or in fashion, especially, or in Hollywood.Um, And I believe it.
I still have to prove it, but I believe it.
You know who Jaguar Wright is?
She's basically a woman who's kind of been making the rounds.
I think it would probably be fair to call her a conspiracy theorist, but she, you know, some of the claims that she throws out there seem to make some sense, or she seems to be proven right by certain things at times.
And she just recently went on Piers Morgan and made a lot of extremely inflammatory comments about Jay-Z, basically claiming that he's guilty of a lot of the same stuff that Diddy's been accused of, even though there's no charges or investigation that we know of in terms, no lawsuits that we know of about with Jay-Z.
From your perspective, is that a risk to people who want to be taken seriously in this regard?That it seems like there's a lot of people who aren't necessarily concerned with the truth, but they're using this content to get a viral moment?
Well, I guess that's always possible.You know, my area is the law and we have to have evidence and proof.And that's what I like about being a lawyer.People can't just, you know, post something on social media and then it goes viral, as you say.
In court, we have to prove our case and somebody's going to get cross-examined.So, it's very easy for somebody to do a video or to do an interview, let's say, with Piers Morgan.
I don't know how long it was, five minutes, ten minutes to say a few things and then you're done.
Well, in court you're going to be cross-examined by really smart people who are going to rake you over the coals for everything you said and you're going to have to withstand that cross-examination.
And at the end of it, we'll see whether you're telling the truth or not.And a lot of people, their stories fall apart in cross-examination. that could be on the victim side, it could be on the perpetrator side.
But that's the great thing about the court system.And you know, one of the things that aggravates me is seeing people out in the world just kind of throwing out allegations.
But I think most people do have a healthy amount of skepticism for somebody who just makes an allegation
And they want to see proof, or they want to see multiple accusers, or they want to see a video, or they want to see somebody file a lawsuit, or go to the police, or do something about it, rather than just making claims.
But I will also say that the legal system is very difficult for people, and a lot of people take these secrets to their grave.So, maybe all they can do is a social media post.All they can do is a quick interview.And we just don't know in that case.
Right, okay.I know you have to go, but my last question, It seems like we are now in an environment in which people are more ready to hear the claims made about Diddy and to take them seriously.
But then at the same time, it seems as if Donald Trump might be the next president of the United States.And it seems like a gigantic percentage of the country is willing to ignore a lot of the claims that have been made about him.
Well, thank you for raising that.And I represented four women accusing Trump of sexual assault back in 2016, including the first one who was very brave, who came out, Jill Hearth.And people seem to have forgotten that 20 women have accused him.
And one of them actually took him to court and won.And, you know, it's just like an oh well, I guess, on the right.You know, Trump, I've heard it said, is a mud monster.You could throw mud at him.Doesn't matter.
He's already got so much mud all over him.It just becomes a bigger mud monster.
It really is remarkable.He's got a superpower that nobody else seems capable of having in our culture.
Yeah.I mean, the people on the right have just decided they're going to hold their nose and vote for him because they like his policies.And so, you know, I find it very disappointing.I'm a very active supporter of the Harris Walls ticket.
I'm going door knocking in Nevada next week. which is a swing state to do everything I can possibly do.I've donated.
I do think that character matters, that decency matters, and that having somebody who has not sexually assaulted someone kind of matters.It's pretty important.And I don't understand how people on the right can just ignore that.
Yeah, like there was a poker player, I'm in the poker world as well, there was a poker player recently who was basically like booted out of his position in the poker industry as a result of him basically sending text messages to women who were coming to play in his poker game where he was asking them to see their breasts and stuff like that.
And there's this whole moral outcry in the poker community.And then at some point, somebody points out like, most of you are Trump supporters.And this doesn't feel a little disingenuous.
That's such a great point.You can't play poker, but you could be president.I mean, that is crazy.
It's interesting.Okay.I appreciate your time and thank you for filling us in.There's a lot of people out there who are looking for, uh, you know, sources of truth when it comes to the whole Diddy thing in particular.So we appreciate it.
Thank you for having me.I enjoyed it very much.
Thank you so much.No Jumper, Coolest Podcast.Like, comment, subscribe.Thank you.
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