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Good morning.How are you guys doing today?
Good morning.I have to just say I love your name.Thank you.That's pretty cool.
Thank you so much.It actually came from my my first wife was a was an author and and we she was looking for somebody that would have a cool name that ran a nightclub.And so we were just joking around one night.
I said, why don't you just call him like Arrow Stevens or something?She goes, I like the name, but I don't like the last name.But but it's not going to spell it with a W. So it's like, OK, now I have a role to play.I have to become Arrow.
I love that.That's very cool.
You know, I love your podcast in the way that for the longest time, I have always complained about people don't talk about what's going on inside their own places of business.There's a connection between humans.
It's not that we're going to sit down and compare each other.We just want to know what's going on in your world.Show us your wizard.
Absolutely.I mean, Let's Talk Offline does that, you know, each week, Gianna and I are having honest conversations with each other.
And, you know, I think some of the tension of podcasts comes from, you know, her being, you know, a Gen Z, a Gen Z-er and me being a millennial and really kind of understanding, well, what are the differences of our generation?
But more importantly, what are the similarities?And, you know, whether it's conversations around navigating, you know, a toxic manager or a toxic workforce,
to talking to more nuanced conversations nowadays, like how everyone is a personal brand or how more Gen Zers are tackling side hustles.
We really want to make sure that our work besties, which is what we call our community, walk away feeling like they can also go back and have these honest conversations with their community as well.
You know, we are two girls behind the mic, but we're hopefully encouraging other people to have similar conversations as well.
Well I'm glad that you brought up the side hustle because to me that's the power of choice and I love it when people do have those side hustle positions because I mean at one point in time it was taboo, you're moonlighting, not so true anymore.
Yeah, you know, I feel like a side hustles are just a spin on moonlighting, where with the side hustles, you know, Gen Zers have openly embraced them.I think nearly half of Gen Zers have a side hustle.
And it's really because we don't expect to get 100% fulfillment out of our job.So we're looking for those side hustles, whether it be content creation, building a business.
to test out our passions and test out our interests as we think about building portfolio careers.And we've seen the importance of building those portfolio careers in the last year when the job market changes and you never know what's gonna happen.
So having that side hustle can really lay the foundation for a full-time career.And Demay and I talked about that on episode seven.We brought in my friend Jalene Dolne.
Work in sales early on and then ended up being laid off and because she had a side hustle She was able to then build a business full-time and now she's pursuing that Wow Wow It's amazing how what in today's economy that we're able to do that way and sometimes often wonder if that's because we've we've all become Multitaskers and when we don't have a multitasking position anymore.
It's like what am I gonna do?What am I gonna do?What am I gonna do?So we go out there and we find something so that we can just crowd up that Google Calendar and
Yeah, I don't know.I mean, I'm always like, is multitasking actually as productive as we think it is?I don't know.Yeah, I do think Gen Z. I mean, me personally, I love to be busy.I love to fill my time.I'm honestly working on chilling out.
Jemay's like, you gotta chill sometime.Yeah, try that. Trying to be better about that.But I think there's just so many more opportunities right now.And it's never been easier to be a creator, to create content.Gen Z's a digital native generation.
You know, we all are very, you know, chronically online when it comes to TikTok and other social media.So because of that, we have the tools to build out a content creation career at our fingertips.
So I think because, you know, it's just so easy these days and because we have so many passions and so many interests, we're such a unique generation that we're openly embracing side hustles and filling our time with them.
Don't you think it's about time that these MODs, department managers, and these other leaders, they embrace the fact that we do have a connection to TikTok and Instagram, and we're not gonna face plant onto the smartphone, but give us the opportunity to have that connection to outsiders as well.
Absolutely.You know, what I really respect is that you can be inspired by so much just, you know, looking on your phone or on your laptop or however you consume, you know, media.
I mean, an easy way to bring this back is that, you know, Gianna and I source
questions from our listeners, you know, week over week that we answer on the podcast, like these are coming from our community, you know, and particularly on LinkedIn, where people can send us.
But we're also looking on Instagram and TikTok, you know, people send us a lot of wonderful notes and questions that they have.So I think that social media can absolutely be used as a tool for cultivation.
and curation of the conversations that your audience needs.And I really think that, you know, tapping into that and looking at how you can tap into utilizing your social media is going to be great.
You know, we have a wonderful episode all around personal branding, and we talk about how everyone is a personal brand, you know, whether you think you are or not.
And one of the questions that, you know, Gianna threw out to me was just like, you know, does that mean I need to have X amount of followers on a social platform in order to be successful.And the truth is, no.
As long as you have a unique story to tell and you know how to frame your narrative, you can find success and you can build yourself out to be a really strong candidate in any job market.
And so those are the kind of conversations that we're having on Let's Talk Offline, which again, is very age agnostic.
One of the things that I learned in Julia Cameron's The Artist's Way at Work is that she gives you this challenge of give me 10 things that you love, now go do them.And I feel like that we're living that right now.
It's like we have this list of things that we enjoy doing, go do it.Even if it is a side hustle or if it's just a glorified hobby.
Yeah, you know, I think right now, being early in your career, you have the freedom to be able to explore all those opportunities.
And something I've learned since starting my job, you know, now three years ago, is there's so much you learn just through trial and error.And I think there's so much pressure, especially
we put on ourselves to land that first job and it has to be perfect and get the best opportunity right out of school.But each job, each opportunity is just a stepping stone and it's informing what you do or don't want in that next opportunity.
So, you know, I think we're openly embracing whatever comes our way and just figuring out how to build these portfolio careers so we can diversify our skill sets and experiences.
Yeah, and I'll just quickly add to that, that we have an episode that will be coming out at a later time where we talk about job hopping, and if you should say job within a certain amount of time.
And I love this, you're gonna have to just listen to see my stance and Gianna's stance, because I won't say that we necessarily agree, but it makes for good audio.But I love that we can have those conversations because like Gianna said,
When you're young, particularly, I think I encourage job hopping or job exploration, you know, but we also look at it.Yeah, but it's not just about growing vertically.
It's also growing horizontally in your role, you know, raising your hand for new opportunities, raising your hand to take on new assignments.
You know, here at LinkedIn, we have a wonderful internal mobility program that I think a lot more companies need to really embrace.And so, you know,
There's just, the sky is the limit when I feel like you should just empty your cup and you really should just explore all of your interests because that's really how you refine what you really wanna do and what you wanna make your career out of.
As a department leader, that job hopping thing really gets into my soul and it gets underneath my skin.
I have a hard time with that because I'm not the one that gets to make the final decision of who gets hired, but I'll tell you what, I can see it when they're sitting down with us.It's like, this one's gonna hop.I mean, it's written all over them.
How do you react to something like that?
You know, I think there was the notion that leaving your job after, let's say, two years is kind of a red flag on your resume.But the reality is there are, one, so many opportunities for us to explore.
But, you know, job hopping is a way for us to diversify our experiences and skills.
Maybe it's a knock at company loyalty, but like I was saying earlier, when we don't expect to get 100% fulfillment from our jobs and we have all those side hustles, we're almost to a sense sometimes viewing a job as more transactional.
And I think sometimes when you invest so much into a job, losing that job just hurts so much more.And what we're hearing from members is that they want to explore all these opportunities and diversify their skill sets.
So I think job hopping is one way to do that.Obviously, some people have their opinion on it.
But I think in general, it's just informing what we do and don't want to do because we don't learn so much in school about how to figure out what we want in a job.
So many of us end up in a first role where we're thinking, oh, this is just not what I thought it was going to be.Give it two years and then look for that next opportunity.So I think it's just all informing what we're our next play, if you will.
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Let me tell you, Dr. Fallon collectively gathered us.There's quite a bit that didn't make it into the final airing that Gianna and I are keeping very close to our hearts.
But what I really particularly appreciated about that conversation was that social anxiety in particular can really affect anybody at any point in your career.I look at it a lot sometimes almost as imposter syndrome, but as Dr. Fallon breaks down,
social anxiety can happen whether you're in a room with five people or you're in a room with 5,000.
We really hope that particularly with that episode, people feel empowered to know any room that you go into, that you know how to network and that you know how to create a game plan.
Whether you're going out on the next job interview or you're going to that networking event, which admittedly can feel cringy, but depending on what industry you work in, it might just be the name of the game.
Hopefully, it helps settle some of the nerves and you feel like you go and go, And you go in feeling super confident about yourself.
Building a great team is everybody's, oh, that's my dream.Oh, I'm just gonna build the greatest team.Yeah, but when you have it, it's like an NFL team.It only lasts like five minutes and then it's done.
Yeah, you know, I think what's really important is that we have opportunities to grow within companies when it comes to retention.
When I think about building my career at a company, I want to have those internal opportunities to grow, like Jemay was saying, both up and horizontally.
So I think it's important that Gen Zers feel supported in the workplace that they are able to grow within their role.They feel support from mentors and allies on their team.
And that we also are actively seeking out those opportunities and raising our hands for those stretch assignments so that we're able to just expand the experience we're gaining within a role.
And Arrow, one thing I'll also add is that, you know, one thing that we love to discuss on Let's Talk Offline is just the diversity of our members and our member experiences.
Gianna, you know, has worked at LinkedIn since she's graduated, and I've had like over a decade plus at working at various publications.And so we kind of get to bring our diversity of thought to the conversation.
And the reason why that's so important is because when you are building a team, you should be seeking out that diversity.You know, we have a really cool segment on the show called Show the Receipts.
And one of the things that we discussed on an episode was if Gen Z is lazy.And so like, these are conversations that we know, you know, millennials and, you know, Gen Xers and even baby boomers, everybody is having, right?
But the reality is you need Gen Z on your team.
You need Gen Z in your workforce because they're gonna bring a new set of ideas and a freshness, even just seeing the conversations we're having on Let's Talk Offline that millennials we never had discussed.
So, you know, building a team really means getting your star players out there.And that really starts with diversity.
Man, if you could only see the research I've been putting into that Gen Z thing where everybody's just saying that they're lazy and stuff.
And the things that I keep learning is the fact that we need to understand their circumstances and we need to get rid of the old teaching traditions.
We need to embrace a new level of teaching because once you tap into that, those Gen Zers and even Generation Alpha are going to pop out very smart and willing to work.
I appreciate that, Arrow, because, you know, like I was saying before, there's so much that we don't learn and we're really looking to our companies for that support.
And maybe it takes a little bit of, you know, extra skilling or whatever it might be.But I think once we feel set up for success, you know, the possibilities are really limitless.
We really just want to find employers where we feel supported and have those opportunities so that we can stay at the company and continue to grow our careers.
One of the things that we haven't talked about is the Generation Alpha in the way that they are going to be the very first generation with AI technology in their veins.
You know, I really appreciate that people are having more conversations because at LinkedIn in particular, we really encourage members to upskill, you know, particularly when you're looking at the job market and you're asking yourself, how can I stand out?
You know, nowadays, you know, if I'm going up against umpteenth amount of candidates, like how do I stand out?
And one of the things that we talk about, particularly like in our jobs on the rise report is just like really ensuring that you understand what are the top skills in your industry or market Where is the area of opportunity?
And how can you sort of leverage that to get ahead?And so I love that Gen Alpha is sort of like maybe leading the charge here.But these are also conversations that other generations can have to really kind of stand out.
And as I always like to say, make yourself sexy, you know, as far as a candidacy.So I love AI.I mean, personally, I'm very invested in, I think, more professionals and professionals of color in particular need to get behind it.
So really, like, this is just a really unique opportunity and something that we really encourage at LinkedIn.
I was just going to say, add that.I think AI helps you be more efficient and productive so that you're able to spend time doing the things that you actually enjoy in your job.
There are many schools, especially broadcast schools, that are really diving into the AI technology lessons to be learned.And I love the fact that the community is finally opening up the door.
Instead of going to a job, oh, this is AI technology, learn it by Friday.But no, there's these schools that are opening the door right now for you to go in there, a smarter employee.
Absolutely.And you know, I know like sometimes particularly when I've talked to friends or if I speak to my, you know, my mom, she's always like, well, AI is gonna, you know, replace jobs and I don't, I don't believe that.
I believe that AI is going to offer a unique opportunity. and a way for people to find unique ways to tell stories, to solve problems, to really sort of rectify some of the more mundane tasks that we've seen in the future.
And honestly, when you take those things off your plate, it really opens you up to take on new opportunities.And so I'm really excited for the future.
I'm excited for the future of AI and technology, and I'm really excited to see what the next generation is going to do with it.
The unspoken rule at the office these days is no politics, don't bring it up, but you know darn good and well relationships are shattering right now.
Yeah, it's a very interesting time.On Let's Talk Offline, we don't discuss political conversations.That's not really something necessarily that people come to LinkedIn necessarily to see.
But what I will just say is just to continue to have open conversations with your community and really be open to that and do what you have to do.
At the end of the day, what we do talk about on Let's Talk Offline is mental health and mental health and awareness and really making sure that you're setting up the necessary boundaries so that you can show up for yourself and for others.
One of the greatest things about LinkedIn, the way I use it as a tool, is I go there to learn or to be inspired by other businesses.
Not those associated with podcasting or broadcasting, but real businesses out there that are trying new things, that have the guts and the courage to say, look, we made a mistake, but you know what, you don't have to because we made that mistake for you.
Let's grow together as a working community, not a competitor.
Yeah, I think that's a beauty of LinkedIn is that people are able to find support on their own career journeys.
And when we're hearing from early career members specifically saying, I don't know if I should post on LinkedIn, I don't know what to post about, I always validate them and say, you sharing your journey and showing the ups and the downs is gonna reaffirm somebody else, make them feel seen.
They're gonna be able to relate to it.Because I think just from creating Let's Talk Offline, you know, a lot of times the generations are pinned against each other.
And Jeme and I have realized being, you know, Gen Z and her being millennial, how much, you know, shared experiences we do have.
And so when you're able to post about those candidly and authentically on LinkedIn and open up about your experience, you're helping other people and you're creating community.
Well, you are doing everything that I've always wanted, and that is to talk about business so that we can identify each other.We all have our ups and downs and twists and spins, but you know what?
You bring us together in that car or sitting there in the office with this podcast.
Thank you so much.Thank you so much.We really, really appreciate it.And we really hope that our work besties continue to, you know, find meaning in the in the conversations that we're having.
You know, there are some episodes and can't give away too much now, but I will say there are some episodes later on where, you know, we do get super vulnerable.
You know, I'm not going to say which episode it is, but, you know, your girl sheds a tear or two.
So we really just want people to see themselves reflected in both Gianna and I, but more importantly, in the stories and the conversations that we're having that reflect our members.You know, we have over a billion members on LinkedIn.
It's no small pond by any means.
Please come back to this show anytime in the future.The door is always going to be open for you.
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