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Let's get into this episode.I hope you guys enjoy it.
What is up everybody.Welcome back to Capitol university, the number one business podcast in the world.Don't fact check that you guys are watching on YouTube.Don't forget to like comment and subscribe.
And if you're listening on Apple podcasts, remember rate the podcast, five stars, get us to actually the number one spot, subscribe and leave a review.We have a very special guest today.Pomp.You want to introduce them?
Yes.Yes, we do.Today we have Kyle Vuku, who is the co-founder of Indochino and now is the chief creative officer of Epicure.If you don't know who he is, you're going to love this because he's built two amazing companies.
And, uh, there's a lot of stuff in here that I think you guys will take away.But before we get into the episode, Bryce, who's the sponsor. Cracking.com, right?It's cracking.Yeah.
Cracking.com the only company in the world that is willing to sponsor us.So, you know what cracking.com is amazing.
They are so cool that every single person listening to this podcast should actually stop and go create a cracking.com account today to buy cryptocurrency.
Buy a dollar's worth if you have to. But go right now to cracking.com, buy some cryptocurrency, a dollar, $5, $10, whatever you got, a hundred dollars, $10,000.
Stop buying GameStop options and go buy cryptocurrencies through cracking.com.Bryce is laughing because Bryce probably bought GameStop options like this right now.Don't ask me.I know. Go to Kraken.com.All right, let's get this episode with Kyle.
All right.So Kyle, maybe let's just start kind of with your story.You've got a really unique one.So just walk us through kind of how you've got to this point in business.
I was 2021 at university here in Victoria and co-founder needed a suit.Never bought one before. and had a really crappy experience in just a traditional retailer.And we talked about it.He thought he could do something better.
And luckily, I was his friend.So we got to do it together.And we came up with this idea to sell custom suits over the internet.
We'd heard about these cheap tailors in Asia, you could flash them a photo from GQ or something online, and they could rip it in like 24 hours for a few bucks.And That was kind of the genesis, the idea.And we kind of went from there and ran with it.
We launched a company called Indochino, moved to Shanghai, lived there for, I mean, he's still there.I lived there for four or five years off and on.And we set up from scratch the first ever mass customized apparel supply chain.
And so, and I rode that wave for 10 years. raised a bunch of capital through venture capitalists across North America.Shortly after I left, I closed a big financing deal with the largest suitmaker in the world.
We went from being online-only to being the pioneers in what's now, in technical terms, omni-channel retail, but really just customer-centric retail.
So we went from online-only to mobile-first, then in-store, and then treating it all as a single experience, which is all just total common sense now.But we were actually the first apparel company do that.
We went into pop-up stores and then permanent retail.I was there for 10 stores and then now they're north of 50 or something.So we crossed North America.I had a great ride, got pretty burnt out in the end.
Pretty intensive, figuring out how to do an Ecommerce business at scale and then a mass-customized supply chain.
going into retail, got pretty overwhelmed, brought in an outside CEO, and took the opportunity to actually step away from the business and step down.
Took a bunch of time off, transitioned to working at my mother-in-law's company, which my wife now runs, called Epicure, North American food company.We make it easy for folks to put healthy meals on the table for families.
And it's been an interesting ride.Family business, you know, very different from being in venture cap.And it's actually been a great success since COVID hits.
A lot more people are eating at home and we're helping a lot more families stay healthy and feed their kids and all sorts of good stuff.
And so, so yeah, so it's been an interesting challenge going through COVID, but overall it's been positive and we've been able to help a lot of people. That brings me to here.
I moved back to Victoria after some excitement in Shanghai and Vancouver and closer to family and friends and a daughter almost two years ago.So kind of change of pace, but it's been for the best and it's been great.
And for the viewers that don't really understand what Indochino is, can you give like a slight description of what the function is?
Yeah, sure.So it's a custom men's apparel, mostly suits as well as dress shirts.
So the initial idea was you could actually do it all yourself with a measure and a friend and some kind of guided video through a measuring system that my co-founder and I just kind of made up and figured out on the fly.
And then more recently, they've got retail stores across the country, across North America.And so you can go in there, get yourself fitted and tricked out there.
And, you know, within a few weeks, you got a custom suit arriving at your door that should fit perfect.And if it doesn't, there's a fit promise where, you know, the company will take care of it.So get it to where you need to be.
How old were you when you started Indochina? I started working on the idea 20, 21.So I guess probably similar to you.Yeah.So what was it like starting a company at that young age?
It was fun.You know, I actually found the startup phase the most fun.I mean, uh, everything was new, it was exciting, you know, super comfortable with risk.Cause you weren't risking much, you know what I mean?
You, you, I mean, I was living at home bedroom I grew up in.So like, I figured if I lost everything, I'd be living at home. with my parents.So I didn't feel like I had nowhere to go but up.
So, you know, it gave me a lot of confidence to kind of try and go big.
And, you know, and I was lucky to get some great mentors early on that really kind of fueled this idea of, you know, let's see how big we can take this and, you know, go after the whole industry.
I read that your original plan was to sell two years into the company. What was it like not doing that and then seeing how big it got?I mean, that was definitely me being a bit naive.
Part of that was there was this theory that especially when we were starting this idea that retail was dead and everything was going to move online.And that's definitely happening.
that was supposed to happen in like two years and it's like still happening like 20 years later.Yeah.So that kind of, the, the trend on that one was a bit slower than what everybody thought.
I mean, apparel still super, I mean, not COVID now, but you know, still super offline.So kind of had these visions and then just realized like building a great company, building a company that has a supply chain just takes time.
And especially if you're in the brand and apparel space where you know, brands take a while to cultivate.You got to build trust and you build momentum, but it takes time to build.So the good part about that is it's harder to rip off.
You know, you're not going to get taken out by a couple of really smart engineers with a novel idea.
I mean, you've, you've got to, you've got to build a supply chain and build a great company and have a brand that, you know, you can build trust around and sustain.
So it became my way longer journey than I thought, but you know, it worked out and learned a lot along the way, which was good too.Cause I think more than anything. made me into a very different person.
If it had been all just about the money and a great rich quick, I don't think I would have been as likable a human at this point in time.
When you think through the biggest lesson, you started the company when you're young, you saw 10 years of growth and really went through that.What was the biggest lesson along the way?
Was there something around business building or something you learned about yourself that you're like, wow, this really surprised me that it took 10 years to figure this out?
I think really having a passion for the space you're in really helps.You can get excited about the money, the learning, the prospect, ideally the core product and the core business you really got to love because
If you are signing up for a decade, a lot of it's going to be tough.And so you want that extra oomph that gets you through those challenges and those harder parts.
There's also this tension between what's required of you in the business and then also what you're good at.
And by good at it, I mean like you find it fun and you're good at it, you know, cause there's lots of things you can be good at, but you maybe hate doing.
And so trying to hone in on that and then trying to augment what you're doing so that you don't get sucked into those things that just kind of gnaw on you or kind of suck on your soul a bit.
Just cause that's also what kind of sustains you through some of that stuff. For me, I found that running a company becomes like a mirror back at you.And I think that's actually a really interesting way to think about a company.
And you get to revel in like the parts of that that are really good, you know, so like, yeah, you can kind of look in the mirror and kind of see kind of the good stuff, but you also see some really ugly stuff sometimes.
And that really forced me to grow, change, kind of have honest conversations with myself, which were really tough.I found that frame was really helpful for kind of continuing to push the envelope and continue to get better.
What made you transition to Epicure?
I mean, you know, the first thing was really getting comfortable with stepping away from Indochino, you know, it growing a ton and it had grown in directions that never imagined, you know, never thought I'd be opening retail stores or kind of getting into that.
And there's also stuff that just comes with scale.You don't realize being a startup and then like having to report to, you know, five, you know, A plus VCs and having to kind of figure out financials and raise more capital, all that stuff.
It was interesting learning, but it wasn't necessarily what I ever signed up for.So there was a lot of figuring out like kind of what of that do I really want to do and what can I do?
And at a certain point, I just kind of hit the end of the runway and kind of needed to take a step back and a beat.And so I brought in a new guy.He seems to be doing a really good job, luckily. took some time off.So I did some soul searching.
I did a road trip across the country and kind of just hung out at home and rested and kind of reflected and kind of came out coming out of that.
Just, I wanted to, my next kind of wave wanted to do things with, um, bigger focus on impact and, and it just a different bent lifestyle wise in terms of kind of balancing family and work and those sorts of things.And,
Epicure emerged from that just because, I mean, there was the family connection with my wife and my mother-in-law, but, you know, always had connection to food.
Epicure just does really good work on the planet, just making it easier for folks to eat healthy.And that just felt really good and right.So, so kind of. eased my way into that.
And actually, it was a great opportunity just to see, you're in these environments, you don't really realize what you're learning.So at Indochino, it was always about focusing on how you grow and how you get to the next level.
And you never really look back.You also had a ton of criticism because the bar was super high.You don't realize that, oh, you've learned some stuff.
And so when you're in a fresh environment and you can contribute in new ways with different people around the table, you realize what you do and don't know in a different way.
and also validate that, hey, you know, there's some places you can contribute.You didn't realize because you learned some stuff along the way.
Yeah.Peril and health benefits are two completely different.
So Kyle, when you think through the big differences between having a leadership position at a company that you started versus one that is in the family, what are the biggest similarities and differences that you experienced?
There is and there isn't a lot of difference.There's only one founder or co-founder.There's certain things that come with being a founder.You'll know the space better than anyone.You're just deeper in it.You know the brand better than anyone.
There are certain calls that you make as a founder or as an owner.
that only the founder and owner can, you know, just there's, um, just because you've got that personal reputation risk, you also just have that, like the weight of the ownership on you.
And, and so, you know, I think being a founder and an owner, you need to acknowledge that, you know, and realize that those decisions are the ones you have to make.
And then when you're in that position and then you're in a company where you're not in that position, you have to respect that, you know?So that's actually a really hard thing to do because You default to having been the founder.
You have to realize that's not your role and be respectful of that and somebody else.But you also want to balance the tension of... I think there's always benefit in acting like an owner and trying to treat the business as if it's your own.
So you're making decisions and you're being prudent and you want to be tight.It's still your thing. And also just as an executive, I mean, your job is very different.
I mean, you're managing a department or you're managing a team, you know, group of departments.It's a very different pace and cadence, you know, as a founder.I mean, I think you're charging ahead in a different way.Both have their places.
And I think that's probably the biggest thing is just understanding that there's these roles that a company needs that kind of need to be understood and respected, you know, whichever hat you're wearing.
Yeah, that makes tons of sense.
Kyle, before we go to wrap up, what's the one thing that you wish that you knew at the age of 21 that you know now that could save Bryce a ton of headaches as he kind of navigates this world that's filled with so many opportunities given the position he's in right now?
Yeah, you bet.Yeah.So, I mean, I was thinking about this one.I mean, there's two things kind separate veins that I was thinking about in your context, Bryce.
So one, just on the pure business side, looking for folks that have taken similar or analogous paths to you, I think is something just to look out for.And I really tried hard to do this.So when we were starting Indochinos, who had done
a big pure play Ecommerce business from nothing to something big or done something similar on the apparel side or whatever.
So I tried to find people that were as similar to me as possible in terms of who I was and where I thought I was going, just because their advice I found was way better, just a lot more pointed and specific and you could relate to it a lot more than
you know, somebody that's done something big and something completely different, you can still learn from that, but you can really kind of glean from people that have been through very similar kind of paths or shoes.
And so I was just trying to think, you know, whether if like in your case, it's like, you know, whether it's actually athletes or, uh, you know, cause like, you know, I worked with Steve Nash briefly, uh, he invested in Indochino.
And so, you know, he had gone from being this pro athlete to creating this investment arm and building an organization around it that had a great philanthropy side to it, and he was on charity.
And so it was just interesting to kind of watch how he had done that.So it sounds like you're doing something similar, but, you know, trying to find that just because those advisors will really help you avoid some of those big missteps.
One of my early investors and a mentor of mine said, you know, we're here to make sure you don't make the fatal mistakes because you're going to make a whole bunch of small to large ones.
And I always liked that because it also kind of gave me comfort around, you know, making a bunch of mistakes. The other thing is just trying your best to find some time to get really clear on who you are and be open to what really fits with you.
You seemingly have been given access to a ton of opportunity and it sounds like you're doing financially very well for your age.And there's a lot of momentum and weight that comes from that to say yes to certain things or to be a certain way.
And you have like a pressure of choice, which very few people empathize with, but is a real challenge, you know, just because it's very easy to get lost in that as an individual, trying to hold on to the kind of trying to figure that out for yourself amongst all of these competing priorities and opportunities, I think is really important, because that'll set you on your path as you get kind of into the 30 and beyond where I'm sitting now, that, you know, if you make the calls right early on it, you know, it only gets better, but it can be harder to unwind as you get older.
That was a lot, but thank you.Wow.You've definitely been through it all, man.That was pretty good.Where can we send people to find you on the internet or find more about Epicure today in terms of they want to trial?
Yeah, no epicure.com.So that one's easy to find and you can order online.And then me, I'm just at kylevucco.com and you can find me on the social channels.I'm not super socially active.Frankly, Bryce, I need to hit you up for some advice.
I've kind of gotten MIA and pretty family focused, but.Can you dance? Maybe if I had a dancing partner.
I am terrible at dancing.I don't know how I have a TikTok following.
Bryce does just enough dancing to do well on TikTok, bud.
Oh man, I know.I was picking up some of those moves.My wife and I were trying to follow along there for an evening.It was fun.
Show them the silly bands.
Oh yeah.Dude, I'm making these popular again.These are going to be popular.
A new trend.Well, it's an old trend, but the old trend.
Hey, they all come around.We're both in apparel.We get that.
Awesome.Kyle.Well, listen, man, thank you so much for doing this.You've had this Epic run and it's super cool to kind of just get your advice and kind of hear your perspective on it all.So thank you so much for, uh, for coming on the podcast.
Yeah.Appreciate the time.
Thanks for the opportunity.Thank you so much.All right.Thank you guys so much for listening to the podcast.Again, if you're listening on Apple podcasts, you know what to do for watching on YouTube.
Don't forget to like comment, subscribe, and we'll see you guys next time for another podcast.Peace.
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