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I'm your host, Caitlin Bristowe, and I could not be more excited to have the golden bachelorette, Joan, in the studio today.
I love having any kind of conversation with her because she brings so much wisdom and good advice and heart to the conversation, and I just loved hearing her perspective on everything this season.So, enjoy my conversation with Joan.
I'm gonna say it so many times throughout this interview.You look freaking incredible Like I know you have the wardrobe and the stylist.
I mean like your energy is even feeling beautiful right now I feel like I have a lot of energy like kind of generated by all the hype with the show.Yeah, like Like it hasn't slowed down since we taped it.Really?
I'm like, I'm on this adrenaline thing and I hope it never ends because it hasn't so far.I mean, are you tired?No, I'm weirdly not tired.It's odd.I mean, we've done a lot of press and I'll come home from really long press days and I feel energized.
I'm like totally the opposite of being tired.
I feel like you're kind of an anomaly.First of all, I don't think you age.I think you get younger over time.Your energy seems to be getting more.
I do have more energy, oddly.No, I definitely have aged.I have a lot of really good people helping me look good right now.Same.Oh, God.I know.Oh, boy.But I am oddly not tired.I love all of this.I'm having such fun.
Well, that's incredible because that will show also.You can tell when people, like, I feel like, Gina, you can remember, I was a miserable disaster after my season.Oh, I couldn't even, I don't know how I showed up to half the interviews.
I wanted to stay in bed and cry.I was drained.I was grumpy.I was like, not well.
Probably because like this season doesn't have a lot of drama.Like they're all pleasant interactions.We have very little thing that would make you have any angst.
And how long was filming for you?Seven weeks.Okay.Yeah.So that, and that's just shorter amount of time.
Yeah.Oh yeah.Yeah.Absolutely.And I'll tell you though, at the end of seven weeks I was tired.Yeah.
That's a lot of emotional conversations to have, as you know, every conversation, even on like just fun one-on-one dates, you end up having those deep conversations that,
are a little draining yeah well and i mean everyone's been through so much in their life so the it's not like light conversations it's like really heavy emotional stuff where
the conversations on the usual Bachelor Bachelorettes are like, I mean, some people have some stories, right?But then there's, you've got 25 year olds who are just like surface level conversation.How much they like to surf.Yeah, exactly.
And how much they love dog.Yes.So it's so much, it's just so, even as a viewer watching, I'm emotional and get drained after watching.Cause I'm like, holy shit.
But I will say it's so inspirational, which I'm sure you hear all the time because it makes me be like,
I fear aging sometimes, and that's something that I work on in therapy, because, and mom, I love you, please don't get mad that I'm saying this, because I always say it, but she made me think that aging was bad, and I'm trying to turn that around, because I'm like, well, what's the alternative, you know?
Right, exactly.So I'm trying, but it makes me be like, we all have so much life left to live, and look at you guys all just thriving.My favorite part of this season is seeing so many grown men
realize what being vulnerable does for their mental health.
I know.Isn't it?So that really is the best part of the season.I totally agree with you.And I said from night one, as they got out of the limo, I was like, this season isn't going to be about me.It's about them.They all had such great energy and
Like, great stories that I didn't know everybody's story yet, but the way that they approached this crazy adventure, they were so open to doing it.And then they met each other and they changed each other's lives.They all said that.
They all said that they left this show being better than when they came because they had found their tribe, finally.
And I'm not just saying this to toot your horn and to pump your tires, but like you make people feel seen and comfortable.
Like it was, it's crazy to watch somebody who's, you know, you've never been in this experience before, but you look like you've done it before. You really like handle everything so well.
You're very much, you're capable of holding space for yourself and them and thinking of what you need, but also what they need.And I feel like that's really special.
That's really nice of you to say that.You know, I watched all of you guys do it, so I've been watching this for a lot of years.So you learned what not to do?A little bit of both.Because I mean, you know, in general, they, you know,
they're pretty successful.And even if the journey in the end isn't successful, there are things that you can take away kind of from everybody's journey, really.So if you watch a lot, like I have, and particularly Gary's, okay?
So I got to give him a lot of credit.He really was the trailblazer for this Golden series because he came in honestly not knowing how to do it and he just had to kind of figure it out on his own.I watched what he did.
and the things that worked about how he opened up really early in all the conversations, which then made us women feel more comfortable opening up.In fact, you felt bad if you didn't.You didn't reciprocate what he was giving.You felt bad.
So watching him helped me do this a lot better.
That's interesting because I did have in here somewhere in my notes that I wanted to ask how that shaped your, like, cause you're making history as the first Golden Bachelorette.
Gary came first as the Golden Bachelor and I'm sure it taught you a lot of how to approach your season and also for after.So if, and when you pick someone, What do you think Gary and Teresa's journey has taught you?
Yeah, that's a really good question.And I kind of had this in my mind anyway, that I thought they were trying to do something that might be impossible.
That trying to conform to one of their two lives, either her going to live with him or him coming to live with her, would be really hard, because I couldn't picture myself doing that.So I have said from the very beginning, I am not leaving my home.
Well, I'm not leaving my home.I'll leave my home.I'm not leaving where I live.I'm not leaving where I live in Maryland, or at least that area, because I think it's too much to ask for somebody to give up.
And I don't expect a guy to do that for me either.So I don't want them to leave their support system and their friends and their family, that's too big of an ask.
It's different for the younger golden bachelors and bachelorettes because they don't have these deep roots.They might have a family, but you're kind of open to the world.You're young.You can move anywhere.You can start careers anywhere.
That is completely different with our age people.We have families.We have We have grandchildren, we have children.I still have a mother who's alive and a mother-in-law who's alive.I have some responsibility for them.I can't just up and leave.
It's not happening.I'm not leaving my grandkids, I can tell you that right now.And I don't want a guy who would feel like he could either, because then that tells me something about him, that maybe he's not that kind of person.
But what happens if it's like the love of your life and you are like, no, I want to be together.
What do you do?How do you make it work? So in my mind, and I think this is so reasonable, and I don't know why everybody paints this as a bad thing, because I think it could be actually a really good thing.So think about this.
So you're going to have two homes, and he's going to have his, and you're going to have yours.Or maybe you're going to have a little place that you can kind of have together.But you have to make an effort.
So the effort is that you're going to have to travel. and you have to spend some time with each other.And we're lucky that we can do that because most of us are in retirement age or getting close to it.
So we're very close to like leaving our jobs and having some freedom.
And so like when you have something really fun happening, like at your house or your town, if you're going to have a party or something great happening, they come and spend a couple of weeks with you.And when they have something
like fun happening with them or like it's a great time of year, the weather is better there or whatever, you go there.You could do long distance?Yeah, why not?You could do it every other week.You could see each other a lot.That's true.
I mean, I'm not against that.
You never have to do their laundry or anything.I'm actually not against that because who's to make the rules for what works for you, you know?
So if I'm trying to have kids with somebody and we need to actually establish a life where we're going to be in a place where you can raise them and they go to school, that's a different thing.We're not at that part of our lives anymore.
That could keep the romance alive, too.You get to miss each other.Seriously.Miss each other, maybe meet in some fun locations.I mean, you have to have resources.You have to be willing to travel.A lot of people my age have that now.
Interesting perspective.I love it.I think it's going to be fun.I don't know why this is so negative.Are people feeling negative about that?I think after Teresa and Gary split up, they said, why didn't you consider that?
And I'm like, well, I think there's other options here.
So do you think that would have not worked for them to do the travel and get up and go?And that obviously wasn't an option for them?
Well, Teresa was still working.So that may have been heard.Gary wasn't anymore.So I don't know.I only know kind of what you all know, too.They're friends of mine. And I don't want to like dive into their personal stuff.
You know, I respect that they... figured out it wasn't gonna work early on, and they wanted to still have time in their life to maybe find somebody else.And so when they decided to split, I respect that decision.
It's so different, your seasons, compared to our seasons, because of, I mean, so many different just phases of life and what phase you guys are in right now, especially when it comes to, like, fantasy suites.
What a different approach that you would have to take, or that you'd want to take, I guess, for overnight dates. So what does your, I think I've heard you talk about this actually, but what is your approach to overnight dates?
Yeah, the fantasy suites is something I put a lot of thought into.Well, first of all, my kids were mortified of the thought of us doing a fantasy suite.They even think the name is disgusting.They're like, it's just a gross name.
That is kind of gross.Fantasy suites are like, oh my God, that's so gross to even think about that with you.
Oh man, and we've all put some thoughts in the viewers' heads of what that looks like.
Of what the fantasy is actually.Yeah. Not just to respect them, but really the way I feel about it was I didn't feel comfortable having a physical relationship with more than one person.It's just who I am.I don't judge anybody else for doing it.
It's fine with everybody.What's good for them is fine.But it didn't feel good to me.So I decided really early on that I was not going to have
the physical element in it, but I certainly saw the need of having, needing to do the off-camera time with people and have those conversations.So I just said, I don't want any beds in the room.
And I said it, you know, I said it to the men that like, we're not doing the physical part of it.I'm sorry.Wait, there's no beds in the room?Nope.No beds.So what do you, what? So you're just gonna sit on the couch?
Yeah, I'd be like, you and I talking.Where are you gonna sleep?Maybe a little closer.Yeah, yeah, yeah.We're leaving before sleeping happens.Okay, okay.I respect that.I know.Yeah.
You know, it's also maybe a little uncomfortable waking up with somebody in the morning that you haven't had that much time with.
You know, sleeping in the bed with them.That all felt a little uncomfortable to me.Also, I like the idea that if I chose somebody at the end, that he wouldn't have to think of me having slept with the other guys.
So tell me about each hometown and what you were feeling during each one.
So I had a little different than Gary.I had four.He had three.So I had two in Chicago, one in Wichita, Kansas, and one in Reno, Nevada, all places that Not all the places I had been.
I had been to Chicago, my daughter went to school there, but I hadn't been to the other places.
So I was going into these visits really, since we've already talked about my vision of how this could possibly work if you pick somebody, hometowns are really important because I have to picture myself possibly spending a lot of time there.
And also, although with the younger bachelor and bachelorettes, it is important to meet the families, they're probably not gonna be such an integral part of your life.But when you have kids and grandkids, you don't just up and leave them.
You're expected to up and leave your parents and go make a life for yourself.When you are a parent, you aren't expected to be the one to do up and leaving.So I had to picture myself with their families.So these were really, really important dates.
So two of them went somewhat like I expected and two didn't go like I expected.Okay.Let's talk about the two that did go.That did go.Okay.So I got to go to Reno, Nevada with a guy.We got to go to Lake Tahoe.We were on the boat.That was super fun.
And I really loved that date because it reminded me of summers with my kids.So we would go spend the summers at the beach.
close to where I live in Maryland and he did kind of the same thing with his kids and they would spend a ton of time at their place in Lake Tahoe and like we had very similar families.
He had four kids, I had four kids, they were like our life when they were little.Like you know everything we did revolved around our kids and he had the same thing and also he was you know like a busy, you know, ER doctor.So he had a great career.
So there's a lot of things that I really learned about Guy at that, um, hometown.But the most important thing was I got to meet three of his sisters and two of his brothers and, and he's one of eight from a huge family.
And he's the baby of the family.And I always picture the baby and all the babies of the families that I know are not usually the uniters.They're like along for the ride.Some older sibling is doing all that. that's not true in his family.
He is the one that gets them all together.He plans the vacations, he plans like crazy things like talent shows for all of them because it's a big family because they all have kids and there's grandkids.
So it's like a really cool dynamic he has with his siblings.So I love that about him because he was all about his family and he just made seems like he made life fun.He was like the dad that decorated the entire front yard for Christmas and
He just was fun.He was the kind of father that my late husband was and had the kind of life that really matched what I already had.Wow.And did that shock you?It did because, you know, we kind of had a little bit of a slow burn.He and I did.
We moved kind of slowly. Our one-on-one date prior to that was we did a cooking date.And that was a little bit telling to me because I feel like when you just hang out at home.What's that?He couldn't zest a lemon.He didn't know how to zest a lemon.
He eats soup every night for dinner.We had a lot of work to do on you, but you might be worth the work.But we had a lot of fun.Working together in the kitchen can be really fun.That can be a fun date.
I've done that with people before when I was out in the dating world.And that was fun.And so we had a great time there. thought that he was gonna be fun and he really was on his hometown day.
But that's like a hard, I don't know if you remember hometowns, that's like a lot of work.Oh gosh, yes.Having all those conversations with total strangers.I only had two.That might be a good thing.
But Nick's family is like 11 kids.Oh geez, yeah.So I, there was 11 kids, the mom and dad, and yeah, it was a lot, yeah.
Okay, so it's a lot.Like having conversations with stranger about like, How strong your feelings are with somebody is kind of uncomfortable.So that was Guy's family.
And then I did a date in Kansas, which I thought I may never, ever see this date of Kansas in my life.And there I was now having a date with somebody.And trying to picture your life there.
And trying to picture my life in Kansas, which is very different from where I grew up.Probably very different than where most people grew up if you didn't grow up in the Midwest, in like farm country.So we had a date at a ranch.
It's his good friend's ranch.But it was a little bit of a heavy date in the beginning because his mom had just passed away. And they were doing a little, they wanted to honor her.It was the first time the family had all been together.
So a couple of his brothers were there and his kids were there.And all of his really, really good friends, including the caregiver.So the woman who had taken care of Kathy before she passed away.So they did a tree planting as a memorial to her.
So that was kind of a heavy part of the day.I almost felt like I was an intruder. Well, I mean, you show up with 10 cameras and a crew and you're like, ah!This isn't as intimate as you thought, as personal.They made it really, really nice.
I still felt like I was an intruder, that I don't know the family and I don't know his mom. But I felt very privileged to have been invited to that.It was really, really nice.
And then we just had a really good time, but it was really, really, really hot.Oh, was it?It was like 110 degrees.Oh, hell no.Oh, gosh, yeah.
So we kept kind of retreating into the house to get cool, and then we would go out and have these interactions. You know, they have the whole Kansas thing with Dorothy and the Wizard of Oz.I got these cute little red ruby slippers.It was fun.
We had a really, really good time.I really, really liked his family.Wow, that's amazing.And I even got to meet his late fiancé, so Kathy's father was there.
And yeah, yeah.And what a nice man.And like, he gave such good advice, like that, you know, you would think maybe he would think about, well, you know, my daughter missed this.And like, why do you deserve it?
Looking at me maybe, like you're like kind of filling in where she left off.And he wasn't like that at all.He's like, I keep telling chocolate life is worth living.You need to get out there and find somebody.
So like, what a great, you know, mentor for him.Yeah, that's powerful.To get out there.
And then.And then we had the not so great ones.Not so great, so two, it's not that they weren't so great, they were surprising.Okay.
So I meet with Jordan in the beginning of the date and he expresses that maybe he's not quite ready and doesn't know if he ever will be.Oh.Doesn't know if he will get to the place where I need to be in just a few more weeks.
Because you know, that's when you're at hometown, you're like, this is, you know, this is time, yeah, I gotta decide.Right. Because this could be potentially going to exotics and overnights and down to the final.
So he expresses that he's not so sure he is going to be ready, if he'll ever be ready.He just says that, like, we've had a slow burn.Very true.He was very uncomfortable in the beginning of this whole journey.He had a hard time talking to me.
It took a little while to establish a rapport, but we did get there.I mean, that's why he's at Hometowns, because I feel like once we finally made it to that point, we were good.And I thought, well, I've got to have a really good time with him.
He's a lot of fun.So you were surprised when he said this?I was a little surprised.I got it. wasn't at the love point with him either.So I was probably at the same point.I may have been more hopeful than he was, but I'm not sure.
I pictured it maybe a little more than he did.So we have a really good date and I talked to his daughters and I expressed to them that I am not sure if I pick him, he'll pick me.And they were like, hmm, they weren't sure either.
So that's why it came down to a decision.And then I had the date with Pascal. And I actually had a really good time with Jordan.I love Chicago.We ate deep dish pizza.We ate his favorite desserts.And it was a little bit about eating, which was fun.
I actually had a great time.I always eat my way through Chicago.
I know.It's good food.Good sports, good food.It's just a fun town.And I really enjoyed his family.I met two of his brothers.He's one of four boys.And so I met two of his brothers, some of his kids.All of that was great.
I could certainly picture my life there.I just wasn't positive he could picture a life with me. And then the same thing similar happened with Pascal.I had a great time.We were in Chicago again.We went out to his salon and we had fun.I met his kids.
I met family.I met friends.But he expressed to me that he had to take this really slow, that he had been heartbroken before, his heart had been broken before, and that he was a slow mover.And I think that was like a real message to me, like,
I might not be there either, because there is no slow moving on this journey, as you know.Right.And did that make you sad?Were you a little hurt?
Because I had this notion in my head that, and this is going to sound a little screwed up, that, I'm sorry, and I'm sorry to everybody, that it would be hard for me to establish a relationship with more than one person, possibly.
It's hard to fall in love with four people, or three people, or two people. but I did think that they should be falling in love with me.Like, how hard is it?I'm here.There's only one in me.I'm only the only female you see for like seven weeks.
No, it's hard to not take that personal.
I was a little, I took it a little personally to be honest that I thought they should have been falling in love with me.And I was like, well, what's wrong?Like, what's wrong with me?I thought, am I not lovable?Am I doing something wrong?
Like, why haven't they fallen in love with me?So I was a little taken back that I thought I was going to go into this rose ceremony with four people. who were very invested with me and it was really just going to be solely my decision.
I kind of felt like Pascal and Jordan took the decision away from me a little bit.Like they were already deciding, which by the way, it's the way it should be.This should be a two-way street.They should be figuring out how they're feeling.
It just surprised me a little bit.Has that happened before in Bachelor?Oh, of course.
Oh my gosh, yes.And even if if some people feel that way, they might not tell it.So it's nice that they were honest with you.Absolutely.Because some people are just going there to make it to the end and then back out like in the last second.
Because like, oh shit, I got too real.
Oh yeah, what am I doing here?
So how did you make your decision then at the rose ceremony?
So I made it based on like the level of their angst was.Yeah.And I felt like Pascal could get there.Okay.I didn't think Jordan was ever going to.Okay.Like Jordan was pretty sure that he wasn't gonna get to the end and
like be ready for a committed relationship.And like I never, I always said, I didn't need to get engaged at the end of this.
I wanted just somebody that I leave and like say, we're going to explore this outside, you know, a bachelor and just figure out if we live out in the real world well together.And I wasn't sure that Jordan even wanted to be there.
Interesting.And now did he say like, what was the goodbye like?Like what were you feeling during that moment?
So the goodbye was really good.Okay.So the goodbye was like, I feel like we made a big step in this journey.Like, like we figured out that we were good together, that it wasn't just like on the ice skating date.
It wasn't just on our other interactions, like this whole day of meeting family and spending the day together, me in his town, in his hometown, was really good.
I still, though, had doubts because he went into this date thinking, I think if I'd said, yeah, I'm not interested in doing this date, then he would have been okay with it when we started the date.I didn't feel like that when we ended it.
So I felt like we made progress, but I just, I didn't know if I left again, he was gonna go slip back to where he was before.There was a chance that was gonna happen.And I felt like Pascal was gonna maybe make it there.Wow, okay.
Was that ice real on your date?Oh, very real.Really?Which is really funny, because I asked him on the date, I'm like, he's from Chicago. They have ice all the time, like six months out of the year.Of course he knows how to ice skate.He had no idea.
So we go and he comes to the rink and he kind of guessed, probably not until we were pulling up to the ice skating rink that we were ice skating.And he was like, oh no, I don't ice skate.And I'm like, you don't ice skate?
And the same thing happened when I asked Jonathan, I brought Jonathan on the horseback riding date.I thought, he's from Iowa, of course he horsebacks rides.He's like, yeah, I haven't done it since I was like six years old.
He's like, I suck at picking these dates.I just assumed like these guys were like based on where they were from, what they knew how to do.And so Jordan did not know how to ice skate and he couldn't even get the skates on.
And then he's like, do we have to really wear like the elbow pads?
Pads and the knee pads and the helmet and they're like, yeah, you have to wear those like this is dangerous Yeah, and then he literally made it by feet and fell and at that point he wouldn't move his feet again I had to drag him across the ice the whole day.
I dragged him across the ice.It was hilarious I felt like such an evil person and lucky you couldn't really see this on camera, but he fell and he fell and It was very comical, the way his feet went up.It was almost like what you'd see in a cartoon.
His feet went in and he went banging down.I knew he didn't hurt himself because we had so much protective gear on.But I couldn't stop laughing.Oh, I know.That was my favorite part.I was like, God, I'm such an evil person.
You shouldn't laugh when people are hurt.You shouldn't be laughing.Are you kidding me?
People falling is one of the funniest things out there.
It is, but I felt terrible.Whenever I'm sad, I'll just YouTube people falling because it's so funny.It is funny, but I felt really bad.I was like, oh God, I hope people can't tell that I'm just laughing.I was laughing so hard that
You know like when you're laughing, you're kind of weak, and I was trying to help him up, but I was no assistance at all because he was still laughing.And every time I thought about it throughout the date, I would like giggle.
I'd be like, I hope they're not filming me giggling.I mean, we were all giggling with you.
But how many of us feel like we're hiding behind a mask more often than we'd like?Maybe, you know, at work or with friends or even around family.I know there's been some times where I felt like I couldn't fully be myself in certain situations.
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So what has been the most surprising thing for you so far as being the Golden Bachelorette?
That you can develop strong feelings for more than one person.That totally surprised me.It was like out of my wheelhouse, never done it before.Well, never dated 24 people at once, obviously.But that surprised you?
Yeah.Oh yeah.Big time. Well, especially given the fact that at the beginning I was so sure I knew who it was and then it got really confusing.But yes, I think everybody is shocked by that same thing.
And I think for you, and you've talked about this so often, and I know it's going to come up a lot even more on this season, is you are capable.So many things can be true at once.
You are capable of falling for more than one person and you still have so much space in your heart for your late husband that it's, that's gotta be confusing.
All of these revelations happen in such a short amount of time and you have to process them so quickly because that's like the essence of the journey.You do everything kind of in warp speed. So how do you process this?
Like how will we see you process it moving forward?So the part about John and, you know, me feeling like how I had this idea in my head, which was wrong, that I had to completely let go of John to accept another person into my life.
And that was something that I couldn't get by.Yeah.Like even though like each week went by and I kept thinking, I got to do this, I got to do this.
And it just wasn't happening to the point where I thought, I don't think I can do the rest of this journey.Like this might not be possible for me to get to the end. and be in the right place.And I used the show's psychiatrist.And I met with them.
What a gift to have them, first of all, because, like I said, you're doing this really fast and there's a lot of emotions.And I think that's with all seasons, not just Golden.
Like Golden, we are dealing with maybe different things, but it certainly is just a quick journey that you have to process things quickly.And I said, you know, I don't know about
I don't feel like I can let go of John," and they were like, why do you think you have to let go of John?
They said, picture it like this, that you have two balloons, one in each hand, and John is this balloon, and this is another person that you might be forming feelings for.
You don't have to let go of this one to hold on to this one, that you can have John in your heart and in your memories. still be part of you and still have another person that there's room for both of them.
And also accept that like it's going to be different love.Yeah.You know, it'll never be what you had.You built a life together and you went through life together.It's never going to be that with somebody else.And that's so true.
Yeah.And that, and I wasn't looking for that really.I was looking for different.So like when John and I got together, I was looking for somebody who's going to be a great father and I wanted to build a life with and that,
You know, we were going to save our money and buy a house and have all these dreams.We have all that stuff done.I've built the house.I have the family.I have grandchildren.I've done all those things.
I need a completely different person in my life now.
I don't know if this is overstepping, but I always like to know if people, do you see signs at all from John?I do.You do?
And like, I think like, oh God, it's so hokey.It's just because I want it so badly, but I swear to God they're there.Yeah.
They really are.Whenever people say to me stuff like, I am such a believer in seeing signs and people are like, well, you're looking for it.I'm like, so what?That's still giving me what I needed.What I needed.
Yeah.I, right after John passed away, I thought I was going to dream about him.I thought he was going to visit me.I had these oceans.And I was really mad when he didn't.And I was like, well, where the hell are you?
Did you really just leave me to this life by myself?That's so not fair.I wasn't ready to let go of you.And I started my daughter. said she kept seeing this hawk that kept coming to our house.And I'm like, it's really weird.
And I was like, yeah, that's really odd.This hawk keeps, and it would like land on our deck, like this big bird would land on our deck.And I was like, this is really weird.And she's like, it's dad.It's definitely dad.
Because when, and this is really like a sad story, and I don't wanna like bring us down totally, but I just will tell this really quickly, that the day that he passed away, the morgue came to get his body, and it was in our home.
And I live across the street from an all-boys Catholic school that rings a bell when school is starting that morning.And so at 8 a.m., they were carrying his body out of the house. I couldn't watch it at all.I was like hiding in the corner.
But my, one of my daughters and her husband walked outside with him.And as they're walking out, the bell is ringing and a hawk is flying around.And so from that point on, this symbol of a hawk was there.
And sure enough, I just see him in all the weirdest times.Like when I'm thinking maybe I'm doing something that's not completely right.Like, you know, that maybe isn't honoring his memory.
Like, I feel like he comes and visits and tell me, tells me it's okay. I know it's weird, and I hate sounding like that weirdo, but I swear to God it happens.
You are talking to the right audience.I'm the most spiritual human being on the planet, and I totally believe that.I think he absolutely is.Even while you were filming, that hawk flew in the beginning episode.We were right at the cemetery.
Yeah, that was crazy.Three of them.
That day, that was a big sign, because that was one of the days I thought, Does this look weird that we are at the cemetery?Like, is this too, you know, voyeuristic for the show?I didn't know, like, if this wasn't respectful.
But I go and visit him at the cemetery, so it felt right to me.Yeah, of course.It was actually the day after he had passed away.What?Yeah, it was, you know, one day, three years later.And three hawks flew?Uh-huh. Three years later.
Three years later, Three Hawks.Yeah.All that is just wow.I mean, I just believe in, I believe in that stuff so much.I think that was definitely like go do your journey.You deserve this.And what have you learned about grief through the show?
I've learned a lot.Like I thought I was ready to go on and I was ready to find love to discover that I really wasn't.Then discover again that I really was. Which is so real.
That's so honest.Yeah.And I think a lot of people would be going through those same waves of emotions and you could have just faked it.Yeah.But you were so honest and vulnerable with them.
Yeah.It was, I got exhausting faking it cause I tried for the first three weeks.I really, really, they kept saying, are you a hundred percent ready to find love?And I could say, yes, I am.
I just couldn't do it anymore.I was exhausted and I finally said to the guys, I can't be fake anymore.Like, I don't know if I'll ever be ready.I don't know if I'll ever be 100% ready.
I don't know if you can expect that from somebody, if anybody ever is.And when I finally got to say that and like let that out and let that be like, okay, it's out.Now you got the real me.It made everything so much easier.
I love that because I'm such a believer in, you know, the power of vulnerability and like that probably gave them permission to then be super vulnerable and say like, wow, I was feeling that way, but I didn't want to say it.
You know, it's just, everything becomes when, when you're real and honest and authentic, everything lines up and it starts being the way it's supposed to be.
And people like you so much more when you are trying to be the perfect you.Yeah. People don't like you.My friends that show me the imperfect self, I like them so much better, because I don't feel like I have to be perfect also.
And when I finally got to be the imperfect me, I was like, I don't have to drive this bus and be the person that's taking in all their grief and trying to be supportive.I can let go of that a little bit and just be me.And it was so much easier.
And I felt like the connections we established after that, when I could just be me, were so much better.
Yeah, I totally believe that.That makes sense.It makes sense, really.It makes sense.Over the years, I feel like dating has just evolved in general and, you know, people are on apps and whatever.
Do you have any advice for other women who may be in the same position, just getting back out there, you know, either after a really hard breakup or a loss or at your age?
Gosh, I wish I had great advice, but I could tell you like my experience.Yeah.So my experience initially, so I was at the kind of two year mark after John had passed away.And I really, like in my heart, wasn't really ready.
My brain said it, you're not getting any younger.You're not getting any prettier. You don't age backwards.And like, I need to get out there and start this because I loved being married and I love being part of a couple.
And I picture, you know, my life with somebody else.I had a really hard time picturing myself alone and felt very uncomfortable being alone.I felt very untethered, um, that, you know, I was kind of floating above everything happening and,
didn't feel grounded at all.I'm like, I like having my person.So I really wanted it to happen.And so I kind of threw it out there to my friends and I said, you know, I'm ready if you have somebody you want to set me up with.
And they're like, yeah, you don't like anybody.We know we don't have anybody for you.So then I thought, okay, well maybe I'll meet somebody like organically.I'll just, you know, so I made it my policy when I would go out with a friend to
sit at the bar, always sit at the bar, don't go get a table, because then it opens you up to people having conversations, which I did, I certainly met a lot of people at the bar, and none of them were single.
And then I thought, well, OK, I've got to do a dating app. So I did it.You tried the dating app.Everybody's doing it.I really didn't want to.
It made everything that I thought was coming true, true that it's like a job and you have to be so on it all the time and you can't like have a five minutes not looking at your phone or you get behind on messages.
And I literally, I had a job at the time and I thought, I'm gonna get fired.I spent so much time looking at my phone, my boss would walk by and I'd be like, putting my phone down, pretending I wasn't doing that.
But I had like 12 men I was messaging, trying to be witty with.It was exhausting.You were a little prepared for Dayton 24.I had many, many men on match.com.
But I discovered that really wasn't a good way for me to peep people, that not everybody is 100% truthful on their profiles.
I'm sure you've experienced that.No, they're all liars.
All of them.The dogs, they lie about their age, they lie about like where they- Their height.Yeah, their height, the size of their belly.
I went on dates that I would get to the restaurant and I'm like, I always go on like, I'll meet you for a drink date, because then you could leave really quickly if it wasn't working out.
And I went on a date and I walked in, and this didn't happen more than once, this happened more than one time.I walked in and I'm like, oh yeah, he's not here yet.
So I go sit down and he's right across the bar and he's like waving at me and I'm like, oh, you don't look anything like your profile picture.The profile picture's like 10 years old.And that had been more than once.
That's gotta be like, it's not nice. It's gotta be embarrassing, though, for them to be like, you don't recognize them?
What?No, but it's like, did they think I would come?I don't wanna sound like a superficial person, but the way some, if you're attracted to somebody, that matters.It does matter.Attraction matters.
So if you thought I was gonna come and meet you and you didn't look like the person I thought I was meeting, was I then gonna?Especially when you've already
It's not like love is blind, where you really get to love who they are and you're attracted to them without even seeing them yet.It's like you've seen and you're attracted.
You've seen them, like, okay, this is a guy that I would be attracted to.And then you go and they don't look like that person.Do they think once you meet them that then they're going to be attracted to you?
They're like, let me make up for this with my personality.Yeah, I am such a fun guy. At that point, I'm already like, you're really not very honest.I'm already at a negative part of my feelings for you.
Like you said, it is kind of embarrassing on my end that I didn't recognize.I'm like, oh, something's wrong with me.Did I not look at that picture right?There's something wrong with me.I discovered that it's very hard to find somebody.
If I had to give dating advice, for me, that really wasn't an option.Not finding somebody was more uncomfortable than doing the dating.
So I really wanted to have somebody in my life and I was thinking of ways that I was going to have to figure this out because I knew that I needed somebody.So I was going to have to change something up.
So whether it was, I used to volunteer for Catholic charities and I would go feed homeless and I met really neat people doing that.The other people that are doing that, like kind of had maybe the same morals as you or same values as you.
So I thought I'm going to like go volunteer more.I'm going to like join a wine tasting club because I can taste wine and it all tastes good to me.So I'm going to like learn something about like wine tasting or I was going to do something different.
Like that was in my mind.And then I, Hey, I got to be on the golden bachelor and the golden bachelorette.
So, I mean, like I did it in a big way, but I also like after the golden bachelor and even while I was in the golden bachelorette, I thought if I don't find somebody, I've certainly put myself out there.
If people don't know, like, I want a date, then I'm, like, not lovable because I'm out in the biggest way you can possibly be out.
Yeah.I want to know what that was like when you got the call because I knew it was you before you knew it was you.How'd you know?Well, I shouldn't say that.
I know people. I assumed who it was, and one of the execs was like, you're probably right, but they were about to call you.Okay.So it was like, I couldn't have, you know, I don't know how they trusted me.Actually, I spoil a lot.
I know.I'm really mad at you that you didn't call me.
But we were friends.They were about to call you.
Okay.What was that call like for you?That was so good. So it took a long time to get to this place because there were a lot of people that were like, would have been really good as a gold amateur.
And obviously, you know, it usually comes down to somebody that's made it a little farther in the season.And I left really early.So I didn't really think it was very likely going to be me.
And then all of a sudden they were throwing out names like Susan Lucci and Kathie Lee Gifford.And like, I'm like, well, I can't compete with them.They're like celebrities.So I was, pretty surprised when I got the call.
And I got the call under the guise that I was going to be meeting a new producer.They just wanted to have me Zoom with a new producer that was coming on the show.And I'm not even sure why they thought I should be.
It didn't even occur to me, why am I meeting a new producer?I'm not even on the show anymore.But I got on the Zoom and it was Jesse instead.And I was like, Jesse, what are you doing here?And we're making small talk.He's like,
So what are you doing this summer?And I said, I don't know, you know, I'm about to go to the beach with my kids or, you know, whatever, you know, I haven't made any big plans yet, but I'll do some vacation.
He goes, well, hope you can save time for us because you're the new golden bachelorette.Oh my gosh.So it was a great way.Like, first of all, Jesse telling people, which is kind of iconic.
So like when I saw him on the screen, I'm like, something's going on here.I think something's happening.Yeah.Oh my gosh.And it was an immediate yes for you. Oh, it really was.
I put some thought into it because, you know, I had gone through like the pre-screening part of it.So I knew I was in consideration.So I would have never have gotten that far or allowed them to get that far.I wasn't leading somebody along.
I knew it was something I really wanted to do.
And I mean, watching the show, It's very obvious that Chalk and you have this just undeniable connection.Will the other guys, like, will we watch them catch up to that?Because I watch and I'm just, I mean, everyone watches and they're like, whoa.
It's like very, very obvious.And every podcast that I've done about your season, every conversation, it's been like those two.Do we see the other relationships really kind of get there?And does that make it really hard for you at the end? Absolutely.
Yeah.Yeah.So I did have a really quick connection with chalk.We had a really great, our one-on-one date in Disneyland was so good because the report was just so easy and it's like, it's kind of like what you want.I mean, you're looking for that.
Like if it's hard, you think maybe it's not right.Right.And I do like they catch up.Yeah.It's, and it surprised me because I kind of thought he's probably the one.Right.But I thought, I also knew in my heart that people do that.
And that was, he was the first one-on-one date I had.And I'm like, I can't do this because people find things out.This happens all the time.You've got to keep the open heart.Got to keep the open heart.
And I knew that, like I had kind of, like I had once again, the advantage of watching your season, lots of people's Trista.I just hadn't seen Gary.I had I had watched charity.
I'd watched some pretty recent seasons even to know that you really have to be careful not to invest too early because things happen.
Well, it's hard for people too that are so, like I'm a very in the moment person.I get so caught up and I'm very impatient.So I was like, no, I've got it.I want this.This is what I want.
Let's go wrap it up.Yep.Why do we have to keep doing this?Yeah.
And then other people really do start to shine when they come out of their shell, when they do get more vulnerable, when they, you do start to have deeper conversations, meeting their families, going to these overnights, like you do start to be like, wait a second, hold on.
I get too excited and like do the whole honeymoon phase too early with somebody.And I was not getting to know somebody that could have been there all along.
Yeah.Or, I mean, certainly that, and that's kind of what happened to me.And then sometimes in seasons you find out that the person that you're really invested in or like thought,
was really kind of a different person then, and they evolve, and they become more of a villain, or some personality thing doesn't match with you.And that happens all the time.
Or you get out of the bubble, and you see so much stuff.You find out stuff about these people.That you had no idea.
Oh, yeah.I know, and I don't think that's the reason.You couldn't possibly know those things while you're still doing the Bachelor journey, but you need to stay open.And I was really, really careful about that, even though when I was having
feelings for certain people.I thought like every date that I sat down with somebody I was like I'm pretending they're the only person in my life.Yeah.
That's fair.And so tell me about how hard the ending was.So hard.Yeah. Yeah, so things happened that surprised me.So emotions happened that surprised me.The way that guys processed some things surprised me.
So the ending, just like Bachelor always has, is a dramatic surprise.Really?Yeah, and I didn't think I was gonna be that person.
You're like, no, no, no, I'm not gonna say the typical things, we're not gonna do that thing.
No, I know how this works, I can do this.
You're like, I went through a drama-free season, let me have a drama-free ending.
And then I was like, what the hell just happened?I was sitting in my room, I was like,
like, I don't know even how to process this.Really?Oh yeah.And so now it's been a few months.Have we processed?Are we in a good place?Yes.
And that is like important.You walk out of there and you're like, Now I can like kind of think about this a little bit.And actually watching the shows now for me is so exciting because like you know, you don't see what's happening in the mansion.
And so you watch them and you're like, oh my God, I love these men.I have this new form of love for,
all of them yeah because i get to see how they are as like just normal human beings interacting with the other guys not like on a date with me right all right as we head into fall life can get pretty hectic with work deadlines and holiday prep and it is really easy to forget about taking care of ourselves but one thing i've made sure to keep up with for years now is taking neutrophil and it does make such a difference in my hair i've been using neutrophil for a few years now and i've
noticed overall less shedding and thicker, healthier hair.I did an Instagram story the other day where you could see my scalp and then months, I think three to six months is when you really start to see it.
You can just see more fullness in the scalp and it's just been a real confidence booster.And even my friends have been commenting how strong and shiny my hair looks, which is very nice.
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After you place your order, select podcasts in the survey and select the off the vine in the dropdown menu that follows. How precious is Charles?Every bit as precious as you think he is, and then maybe even more.I know.
I was lucky enough to be on that date with you where Charles was on the group date and had to strip.And I remember being like, America is going to love this man.He is a precious, rare gem.
I say that he is the most innocent adult I've ever met.He's just a pure person.He's been untouched by anything other than he met the love of his life and married her, and then he lost her.Those are the two defining moments in his life.
Everything else he's become untouched by.He's childlike. And it's so wonderful to find a person like that.Like, I don't think I've ever met a person like him.
You're going to walk away with so many beautiful friendships with these guys too because they are all, I mean, they're bonded for life.Oh yeah.And you, you know, given the maturity level of all of,
you and the men, you get to just have these beautiful friendships with them.
I plan to have so much fun.Oh, yeah.And I've had a bit of time that I haven't been able to talk to them.And I'm going to be like, remember me?Yeah.I dated you.Yeah.I'm your old girlfriend.I'm your old girlfriend.
I'm just calling back because I love you still.Are you excited to see all of them at the tell-all?Cannot wait.Yeah.Yeah.And yeah, I mean, certain ones I really miss.Yeah.I bonded so much with Gary. Oh, I love Gary.I love Gary too.
And I miss, like, he's the most positive person I've ever met.And I'm like, I need you in my life.
We need to start talking again.He's wonderful.I really, that's someone that has stood out to me from the season two is Gary.And I got to meet him on the date too.
And I was just like, oh.And Keith too.Yes, oh, Keith.Such a positive, fun guy.I'm like, I need you in my life.What happened with Kelsey's dad?Kelsey's dad, I did finally like kind of start having some feelings for him.
That yacht date was really, really good.But what? I kind of discovered about Mark and I was that he's been widowed for way longer than me, honestly.He was giving me really, really good advice.
I think that he had such a personal growth during the season because of the men and not particularly because of me.
So when I thought about like our relationship and where he and I were and gave him many opportunities to say like, how do I fit into this kind of thing?He always talked about, like how he had evolved emotionally during this journey.
And it always kind of came back to his conversations and like the therapy kind of that the guys had with each other, and it never really included me.
So in the end, I felt like he was becoming more emotionally ready, but I wasn't positive he was picturing a life with me.He was just now picturing a life with somebody else.Right, right.So you opened up his mind and his heart.
Yeah, or the other guys did.I think it was a combo.I'll take a little bit of credit, but I don't, yeah.But I think he's in a really good place.I think some girl out there is, I'm going to get an amazing man.Yeah, absolutely.
Do you think they would make him the Golden Bachelor, the next Golden Bachelor?I think certainly it's what Bachelor Nation is going to want.They love this story.
You know, I fell in love with him when he was on Joey's season when he was just Kelsey's dad and what a great father he was.And I honestly, I texted a producer and said, if I'm the Golden Bachelorette, we're going to need Mark on the season. Really?
I just thought he's like a perfect guy.He's handsome and he's such a great father.Well, the world fell in love with him.Everybody fell in love with him and I don't think that has ever stopped.
He was every bit as lovable on this season, so he could certainly be the golden bachelor.
Yeah, absolutely.A little fun rapid fire to wrap it up.Okay.I always like doing something fun, so what was the most cringe moment watching back your season?
Kisses.It's awful to watch yourself kiss on TV, and then my daughters count how many people I kiss on each episode.So last episode, my daughter called, she's like, mom, four? I didn't kiss four people.I think it's just two.And she's like, mom.
And then she names them off.I'm like, oh God, I did kiss four.You're right.I'm so sorry.It's the only acceptable place to be doing this.You have to do it.You cannot.
If a guy's had a good kiss, you're not going to want to be with him.I agree, though.It is so cringe to watch yourself kiss.It's awful, isn't it?Even if it's not a makeout, even if it's just a kiss, I'm like, ah.I'm like, oh.I know.I know.
I did the same thing.Any guy that you've eliminated that you kind of regret?
Yeah. No!Well, I mean, I feel like I needed more time.I feel like I needed more time with Mark, and I feel like I needed more time with Jordan, honestly.
Okay, yeah.That's fair.Any behind-the-scenes moments of The Golden Bachelorette that didn't make it on air that you would like to clear up?
Not particularly.I don't feel like there was anything that I regret that everybody sees on TV.I think there are some things that I wish had aired that didn't.Okay, like what?
Like I called, so Fantasy Suites was something that was like a little bit disturbing to me, so I renamed them, and I think, I love the name.What is it?That one day it could be like a thing, and I feel like I wanna coin it. Conversational Cabana.
I feel like that should be on.There's no way they'll go for that.Because they want fantasy.I'm not sure if you know this.And there was no fantasy in my suite.
But Sex Sells and ABC, as much as they are D-rated, they still... It's on primetime.
It starts at eight o'clock at night.
Yeah, it's still... Fantasy suites are iconic, though.I know.But the Conversation Cabana can be for... for other people, for people who see it my way.Yeah, it can be both.
It can have both and you can name it whatever you want when it's your turn.
I always ask my guest to confess something embarrassing, an embarrassing story, anything in your life.
It could be from when you were like 10 years old to now, something that stands out where you're like, this is the most embarrassing thing that's ever happened to me.Okay, it happened on the show.Okay, perfect.
So we were at Chalk's Date in Kansas, where it was like 110 degrees.And I have a sundress on.And the sundressed, so I know that you're a girl, so girls in this band are gonna be like, what the hell are you talking about?
I had like the pasty boob things to hold your boobs up and make you look good.The cakes.Yeah, the cakes.But now I'm sweating a lot.Yes, I know exactly where this is going.This is awful.Sweating a lot.
Not only that, we're at the point in the date where we're kind of, saying farewell, and Chalk is up standing in front of everybody.He has like 30 people on his date, by the way.It's friends and family because we did the memorial thing for his mother.
And he's doing a toast, and he's like, I brought this woman here because I really see a future with her, and he's making this really heartfelt toast, and all I can think about the whole time is my right boob is starting to slip down, and now it's made it to my stomach, and I have sundress on, so it's not stopping.
And he keeps going, and there it goes, it falls out of my dress.No, did people see?I don't know.So I'm like, I got to put my foot on top of that, because I can't.So now we're supposed to walk away and walk up to the house.
And I'm like, it's going to be sitting there on the ground.So I step on it. but my shoe doesn't cover the whole thing, because it's like that big.My shoe doesn't cover.So now it's kind of sticking to my shoe, kind of not.
I'm stepping on it, and now I'm like, now this is going to be even worse, because now you're going to see it on my shoe.And as I walk up, it's going to fall off, and that's going to be really obvious.
So I'm walking really hard, stamping as I walk, so it won't come off.It was awful.I'm like, God.Wait, did you end up telling them, like, peel it off and be like, look.I finally, no, I didn't.
I peeled it off when I got up to the house, and I was like, threw it into the bushes or something.It was so awful. I was like, I'm gonna die. Oh, if somebody got that, I'm gonna die.I mean, literally, it came right out the bottom of the dresser.
It's so funny what would embarrass somebody to what would, like, to me, I would've been like, you guys.Look at my boob.
I would've been like, look at this, they threw it at someone.You're classier than me, though.I was just trying, well, I probably should've made a joke out of it at the time.I was mortified.I was like, oh my God.
I wonder if the producers are watching in the control room being like, get that for the blooper reel.Camera number two, camera number two, panter her foot. That's amazing.
Was it just so overall just like, like such an incredible experience to just get dressed up every day, get your hair done, your makeup done.I'm so jealous that you get to spend every day with Gina and Carrie and my favorite people ever.The best.
And the fact that it didn't have to be dramatic.It got to be pure.It got to be sweet conversations and like real love.And I just feel like it gives everybody so much
Hope I hope so because I didn't want like this to be completely about me I mean, obviously I am like the person out there doing it, but there are so many people like me Men and women that have given up on finding love they like, you know I had my chance in life and I don't get a second chance or it's too much work to have a section or it's not dignified or like I you know, I need to take a backseat to the next generation and be supportive of them.
I don't get to have a Another life and yeah, like I hope I made it look fun.
You did dignified Honestly, I was like I've said it a million times on again social media other podcasts Like I'm like you just you made it look so easy.You made the conversation so smooth and comfortable and You were a vision the whole time.
I was just like, your body's better than mine.Oh, please.It's insane.You are like, you are just a queen.You're a queen.And I think you've just done an excellent job.
Thank you for saying it.And it was, they did such a good job for me.They gave, you know, they gave me 24 men that I, you know, if I was dating any one of those 24 men outside of The Bachelor, I would have been like, yeah, I'm done.
Honestly, a bow down to the casting producers because they don't always get it right.But this season they did.I agree with you. That's amazing.Well, what's going to come up for you now when everything wraps up?What are the plans?
I can't reveal a lot, obviously.Yeah.Okay.Hypothetically, if you have someone and you're happy, would you do a televised wedding?
I believe I would.And only because like, I don't necessarily think that's like the most personal way to do it.And maybe like what I would possibly want just for my family and friends.
But I do really feel like millions of people have watched this show and they deserve to kind of see the happy ending.
Yeah, I agree.It's like a little bow on top of everything.And then you can do a private thing with your friends and family.Can I be your flower girl?
Absolutely, if I have a flower girl, you are in.Just get, you've got like little grandchildren and I'm like, me!A pink tutu, you go with a pink tutu?
I'll be like the, I'll toss out beers to people.I'll be the beer girl.Little miniatures.I'll be passing out the nips, like here you go. I love it.I would take that job very seriously.I know.I know.I can count on you.I know that.
Well, I'm very proud of you.I'm excited to go to Dancing with the Stars with you tonight.
We're going to have so much fun.
So much fun.Wouldn't it be fun just to be in the audience and not have to do anything?Oh, I can't.
I've done it one other time.
I hope you get to do... Would you do Dancing with the Stars if they asked you?I would.I am not a good dancer, but I'm going to start practicing if they ask me. Just give me a heads up now, because I might need about a year.
I would start now, because I think they might ask you.I think I should start taking some lessons.I hope they do ask me.I have this policy now.I say no to nothing.I love that.Well, I mean, not nothing.I'll say no to some things.
But I feel like when, at this age, you get these kind of opportunities, and I say yes to everything, because I love it.I'm so lucky.
Well, you are such a go-getter too.Like you, you know, you're kind of an energizer bunny from what I'm gathering here.Right now I am.That's amazing.Well, I'm so happy for you.And now I'll get the real tea after we say goodbye here.
Since you knew I was going to be it, apparently you have inside scoop.
I'm Caitlin Bristow.I'll see you next Tuesday.
Hi, I'm Lauren.And I'm Chandler.And we're the hosts of Pop Apologist Podcast, a weekly podcast devoted to celebrity gossip, Hollywood deep dives, Real Housewives drama, and anything and everything Taylor Swift.
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