Oh, hey there.What's up, everybody?It's your boy, Chef Josh from the family cast and from Dogwood.You're listening to the Rumors Are True podcast.Let's go.
Welcome, this is Jeremy Alan Gould, and I'm coming to you today to confirm between God and of man that the rumors you have all heard are true.
I started this podcast to have a platform for the bands and artists that I've worked with in the past, as well as new musicians and artists that influenced myself and many others.
The Rumors Are True podcast is an opportunity for the artists to tell their story their way. I'm still in the business of confirming rumors, I still love a good conversation, and I still freaking love music.
So thanks again for joining me on this journey and I hope you like what you hear.With that said, the rumors are definitely true.
What I can't see When you think what we see is right or wrong This is where we belong Send the gimmicks in to wake up from the outside Stay true to our convictions I'll make them disappear this way
Thank you for tuning in to this latest episode of the Rumors Are True Podcast.My name is Jeremy and today I welcome Jason Moody.You know Jason from the band No Innocent Victim.
Amazing conversation, so cool to have him on this podcast just to talk me through the history of the band, his life, and his future as well.So I hope you enjoy this latest episode with Jason Moody. Jason, what's up my friend?
Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
Awesome, man.Tell me what is going on in your world.What's new in your life right now?
In my personal life?Let's see.I have four kids.My son got married, found a wonderful girl and they were like high school sweethearts and they got married after high school.They've been married almost three years.Wow.And uh,
they have a little one and a half year old girl that they, uh, graced me with a granddaughter.That's been frigging awesome.Um, my oldest daughter just got married a month or so ago.
And then, uh, I have my youngest daughter is up in, uh, Bible college and my middle daughter, she, uh, man, she's just working like managing a, uh, It's like a sandwich sub shop, Italian sub shop, and she's doing really good.
So things are, yeah, weird because we had all our kids really close together.Yeah.We just let the Lord gift, give us gifts as he wanted, right?Sure. We just let it happen.
And it turns out they were born just boom, boom, boom, boom, like 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005.So you're going through life with all these kids, right?Like they're all in diapers at one point and all of a sudden they're all out of it.
They all kind of go through these stages kind of at the same time.And we weren't foreseeing this, but boom, all of a sudden they leave the household at the same time.So it's very different.It was really hard at first.
But, you know, still see my son at least once a week.That's cool.You know, we see all our kids, so it's still good.No one's moved out of state or anything crazy.
That's good.What are you doing work-wise?Work-wise, I got into network engineering.So just maintaining, helping a team to maintain a network at a UC hospital. And so that's, yeah, that keeps you busy.Do you like it?I do.I do and I don't.
Sometimes it can get really stressful.And I came from my past jobs were like high paced restaurants or something where everything's like a lot.You know, you're like stressed out.And now I still have that anxiety when something breaks.
I'm like, I got to fix it right now.You know, kind of another feeling.
Oh, that's cool.That's cool, though.At least you feel like, you know, like I said, you enjoy, like you said, enjoy your job and at least you don't hate it.You know, that's kind of the worst, you know, thing.I've had those.I know.
I definitely, I definitely can relate to that.Well, let's talk about growing up for you, Jason.
Maybe some bands, records, how music kind of came into your life, some influences and maybe even some shows that kind of pushed you in the direction that you went.
All right. My parents, we always seem to have music playing, playing in the house, playing in the car.So parents mainly, I think my parents mainly like playing like, I don't know, like Beatles and maybe Beach Boys, that type of thing.
My dad is always in the old car, so he, you know, I remember cruising around in his 55 Chevy with an eight track and Beatles playing in there.But I would say probably like I was 12,
And I just, I really fell in love with music and I wanted to do music and I was trying to like teach myself piano parts or guitar parts or different things like this.
And, and then, you know, started to get into, I was coming from a Christian family and I think it was probably my, due to my dad's experiences,
uh, before he was a Christian, but like he tossed all his old records when he became a Christian because I think he associated all those bands, Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, he went and used to watch Iron Butterfly down, down here and said, go when he was a Marine.
And I think for him, it was associated directly tied with like drug use and everything.
So when he became a Christian, he was like, I can have this in my house.So I eventually, I started letting, you know, I, met some guys at a summer camp or something, and they turned me on to some Christian rock, right?
And then I know my parents didn't like it at first, but they kind of just kind of dealt with it.And then, you know, it just progressed, right?Okay, now I got harder rock and then metal, and it just progresses.
And so, I mean, I remember seeing all those Christian metal bands back in the day. And it just kept, it kept going forward from there.
So then, um, that's probably what, 14, 15, went and saw a metal show and there was this local band and they were called Final Warning.
Oh, I've heard of them.Yeah.
It's kind of funny cause that was the band of the guy and the wedding singer, right?
I thought that was funny that that came up.
That is pretty interesting.
So I saw them open up for a band or two, and I'm like, cool, they're local.So I was on their mailer list, right?You fill out your address on a piece of paper.And I was on the mail list, so every time they had a show, I had to go see them.
And I totally remembered the drummer, because I've always had a pretty accurate memory when it came to things.And I'm like, I know that drummer.I went to church with him when I was four.Wow.I remember that.
I'm like, I remember his son was my friend in whatever, Sunday school, whatever.And so that drummer was Kurt Love.Wow.So you might know him from, he was our original drummer known as Rectum and Born Blind.So that's where the ties began.
So he was drumming for that band.I'd follow him all over the place and they were playing different shows and My parents had dropped me off at the friend or something and kept doing that.
And then, you know, then you, I don't know the appetite, but you start wanting something heavier, something heavier.And, uh, like I remember saw like deliverance before the, they only had their demo out and they were like, they were in town.
And that was like, I think that might've been the first mosh pit I saw live.I was like, all right, this is different.I like this. That's awesome.
And then, let's say after that, after my being in, you know, just being into metal or whatever, a friend of mine, I had a friend at church and we'd always be swapping tapes and stuff.
Like it was good because I'd be trying to research finding these whatever bands I could and he's finding, you know, he's doing the same thing on the side.So we'd be like trading what we found kind of a thing.And he's like, ah,
You might, you're going to probably like these guys.You can have this tape because I don't know.I just, I'm just, it's just a little much for me or something.And that was the crucified.Oh, nice.
And I popped that in and I was like, Oh man, where has this been?Right.Yeah.And then I started going to a bunch of their shows, saw them probably a dozen times here in California.And, uh, So we'll back up.
Me and my Christian friend, we started a little like Christian rock band thing and did that for a little bit.And then it kind of dismantled and reformed with like different members.
What were the band names?
The first one was Covenant.Nice.And the second one was Cribs and Toll.That's pretty, kind of sounds metal. And so, and then I had, and then I had a buddy that I met at high school and he played bass.
And so I'd bring my guitar to his house and we'd just like mess around with stuff or play along, play along with albums or whatever.
And, uh, and he wanted to start a band and I was going to maybe start one with him, you know, started up with him, but then I was still in this other band and he ended up forming a group called Militia.It was like thrash metal.
And, uh, he, he was asking me, Oh, you want to, you want to join our band?You want to join our band?I'm like, I'm still with these guys right now.And I listened to their stuff and I was like, it was heavier.
It was a little more technical, a little more aggressive.And I was kind of piqued my interest.You know, I was like, sure, that's cool.So militia within militia, uh, Corey played guitar.
Corey Edelman, who was in NIV, and Chris Genovese, who was in NIV for a little bit, but also on Born Blind.
So we were all, we were this group called Militia.And I, our greatest thing we ever did was we got to open up for the crucified.Nice.Down at the original SOMA and down when it was in downtown San Diego.
We opened up for, it was the crucified, scattered few and mortal, Wow.What a show.It was awesome.I have that videotape and I keep threatening to dig it out.It's somewhere.I know I have it.
But and funny, our drummer just at the time in that band, he just didn't have a good metronome, you know?Sure.So we actually asked somebody to fill in for that show.Bummer for him.But that drummer was Kurt Love from specifically.
So we got all these crazy little ties.So it was a short time after that, or it might have been at the same time, NIV was actually formed, right?And I'm still in militia.
And Notice the Victim forms, and not a real, definitely not a hardcore band, but it had like a mix, like very diverse.Like, I think you could, compare one song to like Cro-Mags and the next song you could compare to like Ramones.
It was just kind of like no like all over the place.Yeah.Yeah.I wasn't like one driving direction.But so I would hang out with them and go to their shows.And Kurt Love started a Bible study.
At the church that I was attending, and it was basically for the riff raff kids, you know, like
They didn't fit in with the more straight laced youth group kids.It was like all metalheads or punk rockers.So we started this, I will say, which is really cool.So, um, but we all got to know each other even better, uh, due to that.
And like sometimes Corey would come out and Chris would come out, the guys from my current band or whatever.And, uh, a couple of the guys that noticed the victim, I guess they, they weren't happy with, uh,
the vocalist and saw when we opened up for The Crucified and they were kind of tapping me on the shoulder, asking me if I wanted to do that.I'm like, you know, I was going to think about it.
But the thing with Known as a Victim, these guys were a little, Kurt Loeb was older, John was older, Chris was older than me, but they were all like super good musicians.Like, yeah. And I always like trying to play with, you know, better musicians.
It makes you better.Sure.Like that was the first time, you know, I'd go to their practice or something.They'd have a song with a cut, you know, but you could hear that dead silence in between the cuts, like super, super tight, super tight.Yeah.
And I was like, wow.You know, so, um, and it was at the same time when I was hanging out with those guys, That's kind of when I was finally introduced to the hardcore, like the old stuff.
A couple of the guys that hung out with the early Notice of Victim, they were like, oh yeah, check this out, check this out.And that's where I first heard Sick of It All.This was probably like 1990.And what else is out there?
Because I heard Sick of It All and it just blew my mind, blew my mind.I'm like, where has this been? It's got the heaviness of metal, but it's got the aggression of punk rock.It's like the most beautiful thing ever.Yeah.
And, uh, what, you know, so I'm asking what else is out there, you know, try agnostic front.Yes.You know, I think that's what I've really, I took off listening to agnostic front, man.
So, um, and then, you know, you do the typical thing where you're like going through the liner notes and yeah. okay, they think this band named Judge or whatever, you know, so you're like, go out to the record store, and you're like, looking.
So all of us, our whole group just really started getting into it.
And then when someone I, when they asked me to join, and I agreed, that was like, little change in direction, we're gonna go more towards that hardcore, because that's what we were all listening to.
You know, still not really knowing what the heck we're doing.But uh, go in that direction.Right.
Um, that was, so that, that brings us up to, yeah.Um, we did a demo, forget how many songs were on it.
How was that?What did, did you feel excited about it?Did you, was it something?
Oh yeah.Yeah.Yeah.To do anything where, you know, you get to listen to yourself, like on a cassette tape, you know, really cool.And, uh, Yeah, we recorded it.A guy had an in-house studio that we did it with.
I don't remember too much of it, except, you know, there was an excitement, definitely excitement to it.
Were you guys playing with any bands?Were you getting to play with other bands, like hardcore bands at all, or?
Yeah, we did some.See, back then, we did some with, like, Focus and Unashamed, and a lot of shows we did back then were pretty mixed, like, random,
you might play with the ska band, you might play, you know, it was all, it was all mixed up, which was, it was kind of cool.It was, you know, uh, pretty cool mix of stuff.
Um, so after, after that demo, uh, I remember we were playing a show, I think we might've been with like Unashamed up there and right before the show, the guitar player comes up to me and goes, well, this is my last show.Oh gosh.I'm like, what?
What are you? What are you talking about?And he was just done, I guess.He just, I don't know.He was done.So we're like, oh crap, what are we going to do?And Kurt Love was just like, it'll be all right.It'll be all right.You know?
And then, so we looked at my old bandmates from my old group, the Thrash Band Militia.And Kurt wanted Chris Genovese to try out.So he agreed. played, we practiced a bunch.And I think he might have only done one or two shows.
And he was like, all right, I'm done.Wow.We just did this big show like this big gym.It was this gymnasium like kind of convention hall right on the beach.And I think POD played that.Yeah, POD played that show.And it was pretty good crowd like
He doesn't like playing duds.He just decided he wanted to do something else.Like, okay.And I said, well, how about Corey?Cause, uh, I actually liked Corey was like recording stuff, the four track at his house.
And he'd show me like stuff he was doing and he was writing cool stuff.So I'm like, let's, let's try Corey out.So that was, uh, the lineup for strength when we recorded that.
Well, let's talk about signing with Rescue Records and then we'll go into the strength record.I mean, you just mentioned POD.I'm sure that probably had something to do with it.Maybe talk me through, was there any other labels interested as well?
Yeah, it's funny.We met, I think we met POD down at SOMA.I don't know if it was the day we played or not, when I was in Militia.That's when I initially met POD.They were just starting out. So that's a trip to think.We're all a bunch of punk kids.
And so, yeah, Wuv's dad wanted to, I guess he was just helping his boy achieve the dream and put a record label together.And he was able to do that, which was awesome.And we were the first, the second band besides P.O.D., obviously.
We were the second band he approached, you know, because we played together a bunch and he'd been watching us and, um, and we agreed to, you know, go with him.And at the time, Tooth and Nail, it started up and Brandon would, he was interested.
He was, he would be asking us to, and to sign up with him and, don't, I don't even recall.I don't think there was like a real reason one way or the other.It was just like, oh, we felt, I don't know, like loyalty, you know, maybe, maybe.Yeah.
We just felt like, oh, we'll go with rescue.And, um, so yeah, that was that.Um, I think we had already, we used to pay dues for, uh, practice.So our practice space was free and we'd all bring in like,
20 bucks every practice or something and put it in a pot.And that's how we pay.We pay for the demo and that's how we pay for T-shirts, you know, and then that's how we.
The initial recording for strength was just we're just going to do it on our own, we're considering just doing like a another demo or something, and then that's when everything with Rescue happened and recorded here in town.
That's cool.Let's talk about the strength record.You mentioned kind of You know, with Rescue coming in, what was that like recording your first, you know, proper full length?And was that fun?Do you remember times from that?
Maybe some memories from that?
Yeah, that was fun.I remember having to do multiple takes of songs.And a lot of time it was the engineer's fault.Like, oh, I forgot to hit the record button.Oh, you know, oh, let's do that one more time.Or, you know, and my voice didn't last as long.
I believe it.After doing one song 10 times, you know, and so when I listen at that record, I'm so, I get a little frustrated because there's some songs where I kind of felt like for the time, my voice has kind of changed over the years.
I've like figured things out. But at the time, I'm like, oh, my voice sounds pretty good.And then the next song, it sounds like garbage.And I know it was because you're worn out.It was shot.I was I was totally worn out.
But the actual recording, like, yeah, a couple.Things that I would like, I mean, actually considering this, I'm considering like remixing and mastering it.I have the reels, believe it or not.
So I'm thinking about, this is like some stuff that was just dumb, like, not dumb, but we just didn't know, like, you know, there's like a little instrumental part in the middle of the song.Oh, but play it four times.And it just goes on too long.
If it was chopped down, you just, we would have just played it twice.It would have been, kept the energy level up, stuff like that.And then like, The vocals frustrated me when I listen to it now, but it's not, you know, not horrid, I guess.
How do you feel about it?Are you proud of it?
Yeah, like I said, it frustrates me, so I can't be like entirely proud of it.At the time, you know, we were happy with it.And then just every time I listen to it, I'm like, oh, man.Yeah.Because live, I would do that song 10 times better.
And then you hear it on the record.It was just like,
No, I get that.I get that.
Oh, yeah.Remixing a remaster might be cool.
That'd be cool.I'm sure that was still exciting still to put that record out.What was the feeling after that?I mean, were you just ecstatic?You know, it's popping a CD in here, you know, fully done.
I know, like you're saying, you weren't stoked on the overall about it, but I'm sure at that time, that'd be super exciting.
Oh, yeah.Yeah, definitely.Definitely.We're getting a lot of, you know, getting a lot of people saying how much they liked it.Oh, yeah.We were on the We were on the Helpless Amongst Friends on Tooth and Nail, and we put one of our demo songs on that.
And so that was kind of cool buildup because people really liked that song.And now, boom, we put out a full length and a lot of people were into it.
And it was early, early time of the record label, like trying to figure out distribution and how they're going to get in the stores and all that.So it was an interesting, interesting time.
I'm sure.Well, who were you playing with?Were you getting to be able to play with still like focused on Ashamed on that?Or was there like secular band letting you?I mean, how was that being a Christian band?
I'm sure that was, you know, could be trying at times.So was that okay for you guys?
Yeah.We certainly started just playing.Yeah, whatever shows we can jump on.I think there's an old old flyer with we played with Brutal Truth.Oh, wow.And the Boredoms. And so we played with whoever.
There was some local band here that was really big at the time, and other groupies were at the front of the stage.And then we started off with One Back Down, which is like hard vocals right on beat one. And I just jumped right down in their face.No.
Yeah, we played.We got a lot of, you know, people yelling at you or whatever.And it's not like, you know.
It's not like we're doing some like five minute sermon or something, we just say simple things and people are yelling at you, sometimes throwing stuff.But it was just like.All right, that's. I know what the Bible says they're going to do.
So yeah, they're just kind of, they're just kind of proven scripture right right now by lashing out, lashing out at a simple statement.Like, so never really got us down or anything.We just did your thing.
Here's our, here's all that song.Then we're off, you know?Yeah.So
Well, so you obviously put the record out, you know, being able to play some shows, you start working on No Compromise.Let's talk about that record, kind of your thoughts on that.It's obviously progression.
You're probably more comfortable as a band and in the studio.Maybe talk me through the recording of that record and kind of your thoughts on that, looking back on that record.
All right.Let's see.So we went on a tour.We did our first, very first tour with Crocs, made it all the way back to Cornerstone.Nice. And we got home and me and Corey were like, this is what we want to do.
And Kurt and John were older guys and had stable jobs and families.And.We kind of knew that they were going to be into that in the long run.Yeah.Yeah.So.I knew there was this other metal band back in the day called Judgment.I saw.
So two guys from there, Jud Morgan and John Maddox.John Maddox was a guitar player in Judgment.He later, he was actually the guy in line to replace Greg in Crucified at one point.And then I think then he joined Greg in Applehead, I think, for a bit.
And then Jud, we knew him from bumping into each other in church or whatever, and he joined this local, other local hardcore band called Built to Last.And they did a lot for the city because San Diego didn't have too much happening.
And then when they came around, things picked up and Jason Dunn was playing for Built to Last.And I knew Jason Dunn forever because I went to high school with his brother.So I saw him when he was a little kid and he wanted to start
playing drums, he would come to our practice, and Kurt would start teaching him how to play drums before our practice.That's awesome.Pretty cool.
So when me and Corey were like, you know, they're not going to be too big on the idea of touring, and me and Corey really wanted to, well, we could start our own band, or we could talk to them, and if they don't want to do it, would they be willing to step down?
And we actually talked to a pastor about it, because our church was involved with what we were doing.They're always asking how things are.That's cool.It was really cool.So we had some spiritual backup.
We talked to a pastor and kind of what we were thinking, and he's like, well, you don't even know.Maybe you should just do a practice with those guys and see if it even makes sense.You know what I mean? It's like, okay, yeah, okay.
That sounds like sound advice.And so I talked to, we talked to Jason and Judd, kind of explained the situation.It made sense.They were, you know, they were, they were Christians and we were doing like a Christian hardcore thing.
So it just made sense that they joined up with us and, but nothing was like set in stone at this point.We actually go down to Rescue Records and Do plays like play songs together, right?
See how it how it feels out there We played on we played on pod's amps and everything.It was down at rescue records and oh my gosh, the next thing I it all blew up like Someone found out someone told someone else.
Oh gosh um, so the built-in last guys hated our guts for attempting to steal judd and jason and They called up Kurt right away.Like, you know what they're doing, blah, blah, blah.So now Kurt thinks we're just going behind his back.
And it was such a mess and felt horrible.But what do I say?Because we were thinking of, you know, but we didn't want it to be this abrupt boom, explosion of, you know, it was a mess.It was a mess.
So I don't know if it was like the next week and then kind of like a band meeting and Kurt's like, you know, I can't, I can't go on the road like you guys want.I understand what you guys want to do.And so I'll, I'll, I'll step down basically.
He like willingly, willingly gave it up and he's the one who basically started the band.So, um, he was a guy, he went out and got the other musicians initially.
And then John, the bass player, he was like, yeah, man, I got kids and they're all little.So then that started the lineup for the No Compromise album, and we started practicing.
We're kind of doing like dual practice because the idea was we were going to kind of make the switch up at TomFest.And that's what we did.We did like half the set with the old guys and half the set with the new guys.Oh, that's cool.
So it was a cool, like, kind of like a send-off or whatever.
So everything was cool with you guys after you guys kind of worked it all out?
I think so.I mean, it was a sucky situation for sure.But then, you know, we started touring on the regular at that point and I think everybody saw that it wasn't just for not, you know, we were trying to do something with it.
So and that's where our writing and definitely being in the scene now for a few years and more accumulation of more albums and sounds.And that's where I think No Compromise, at least the writing started going more in the proper direction.Sure.
We decided to record with one of Judd's friends.And he was actually in Final Warning, too.Just throw that back there.That's funny.I just thought of that.He was in Final Warning, too.
So we recorded with him and it was just like recorded at Judd's house in his living room and in his bedroom.And the whole album was just done in the house.That's awesome. listening back on it now, it's like, oh, the sound quality is terrible.
What were we thinking?But we didn't know what we were doing, you know?Sure.We just knocked out an album pretty cheap and got our music out there, right?And so it worked for that, even though the sound isn't isn't very good.
Are you proud of that record, though?I mean, you know, take the sound, you know, the sound quality of it out.
I mean, I think for the for the time, yeah. We were, it definitely, like I said, the band started to, musically, kind of went in the right direction at that point.
It sounded like more cohesive, like we didn't sound like three different bands on the album, you know, it sounded like one band doing something.Yeah, I really enjoyed writing.There's still a couple songs I enjoy off that album.
We don't do too many live just because I think the next album kind of took precedence over, you know.Yeah.So.
Well, what was the touring like for you guys then?I know you said you kind of were on the road quite a bit.Was it extensive?Did you feel like you were making a mark?
Yes, we would typically do like three to four weeks.And then we'd come home and after a couple of months, do that again. Um, and it was so, it was totally DIY, you know, like Jason, he had the knack for it.
He'd be in con, he'd, he'd be the contact for like all these other bands.And that's how it would basically work with this band in Baltimore says they'll put us up in a show or something.You know what I mean?
And then figure out, you know, make, have, make out a map out a route that makes sense.And then, try to get the guarantees.And, you know, we were trying to save money.We still had bills back home.I was married and had bills back home.
So trying to like trying to eat on, I don't know, five dollars a day or whatever, you know, and but making a mark.Yeah, because just going cross country, even if it wasn't some huge show,
Well, the next time you came through, people remembered you from last time and they brought their friends or, you know what I mean?Yeah, absolutely.So, but man, talk about, talk about DIY though.
I mean, we, there was, this was before cell phones, you know, this is pull out the Atlas and then ask the old timer on the corner how to get to the someplace.Yeah.
Um, yeah.So, and, bunch of kids rolling around in a van or whatever.And I think the first tour with Jason Dunn, he was still in high school.So he was like, he was doing schoolwork on tour.That's hilarious.Pretty crazy.
Well, that's cool.I mean, obviously, you made a mark now because, you know, you wind up signing with Victory Records.Talk me through that the next step in the band.I mean, that's a massive thing for a Christian hardcore band, number one.
And the fact of the matter at that time, you know, Victory was the staple of hardcore, you know, for the most part.Yeah.Talk me through Victory coming into the picture.Was there any other labels?
I mean, I'm sure Tooth & Nail was obviously in play, I would assume.
Yeah.Yeah.Brando was still showing interest, but we kind of had our eyes set on Victory, right?And through all the big hardcore bands were.And I believe Clint who worked at Victory, he took a liking to us.
He was a really cool guy and we'd always be hanging out with him.And he introduced us to Tony and I think he talked us up.I think it was Clint at a huge part in getting us at Victory.
And we would go through Chicago and you're, you know, like I said, our target was victory.So we'd go through Chicago and be like, Oh, Tony pokes his head in for a couple songs or something, you know?
And, uh, and we're just touring as much as we could.And so that shows, you know, people know you're touring and you're, you're working, you're working, you're not just, you know, and so I, I think maybe he saw that as well.And,
Um, we had some new stuff and writing, you know, the writing for the new stuff was, I think, getting better.
And, um, so yeah, uh, I remember, I think I was at work and I got the call and, all right, they want to, you know, I think they, I don't know if they called up Corey or JD and all right, they want to, they want to sign, sign us up.
So being at work, just like, ah, I can't work the rest of the day now.I was so stoked, you know.
I bet.I bet.Yeah.So obviously, you know, sign in huge, you know, dream come true really is what it sounds like.Yeah.Yeah.It was it was Tony cool.Like you always hear horror stories.What was he like with you guys?
He was always cool with us.You know.Yeah, he was always cool with us.We didn't we didn't hang out with them all too much.
Um, in Chicago, you know, when we'd roll through there, we'd see him, but, uh, we didn't see him too much after, you know, other places, but no, he was always, he was always cool to us.
Just cool that he would kind of stick his neck out because there was a, there was a couple of bands on his, on, on victory, um, that were like livid that he signed Christian guys on his label.They were mad.
And what's really kind of funny, fast forward several years and we're throwing their CDs in the dumpster in the back because there was too many of them.Wow.
They were doing like a liquidation and these guys that hated us so bad, I'm like taking a box of their CDs and the possum in the dumpster is like hilarious.Yeah.Funny.So let's see.So yeah, victory was a good, definitely a good spot for us.
They put, they got us on the bigger map, right?Like we, we got offers from shows with bigger vans and you know, well known bands, um, got to play with Haybreed. And they were just, they were, they signed before us and they were exploding, right?
Like, yeah.So we, we played several shows before, I think before they signed.And then once they signed, yeah, it was just like overnight, boom, they exploded.Then they took us on a tour later on, a couple of years later.
And by that time they got the big tour bus kind of thing.Sure.But just for them to take us out was, was awesome.
Yeah, and then being, and then I think AF was, Ignostic Front, they were shopping around for someone to tour with, and I think they reached out to Victor, and Victor's like, oh, here's some guys, here's some, and then they chose us.Wow.
And that blew my mind.That's true.Right?You go right back in memory, you're like, back to the first time you entered Ignostic Front, and you're like,
Holy crap, I'm gonna be not just playing with them on a tour like what so yeah, we did uh, we did a u.s tour with them and Two-thirds through the tour.They're like, hey you guys want to come to uh, europe with us, too.
Wow Yeah, yeah, that's incredible That is so cool and uh Once we, oh man, that Europe tour was awesome.It was night and day between US venues and European venues.Like, you go play in Europe, they took care of agnostic front.
Like, you go back, you wake up in the morning, run around town, you know, you wake up in the morning, you're in Paris.Okay, we have to load in at 3.30.I got X amount of hours to see Paris, you know.So we'd take off running all over Paris.
running up the Eiffel Tower or whatever, going to see Notre Dame and like anything we could see, you know, then we get back to the club, load in.Basically, all of our guarantee was going to like our plane tickets.And so we had t-shirt money.
And so me and Corey roadie for agnostic front in Europe, to make some extra bucks to pay our electric bills back home.So we had load in, sound check and all that.
But when you'd wake up, get off the bus, you walk into the backstage, there was like a 30 foot table full of like salamis and cheeses and breads and like loaded, like, like loaded to every place we went in Europe.
They just like took care of their bands.I'm like, they didn't do that in the States for AF.It's like, oh, here's here's your $12 buyout.Go buy Jack in the Box, you know.
Yeah, that's hilarious.That's incredible.Well, let's talk about the Flesh and Blood record, obviously signing with Victory, like I said, and what was the recording like for that?I mean, I'm assuming you had a bigger budget overall.
Maybe talk me through that recording of that record and maybe your thoughts on it and looking back on it.
Yeah, that was pretty good.So Living Sacrifice had just recorded with Barry Poynter in Arkansas and killer, killer album.And we were We did a little leg of a tour with them and pod and that was still when we were had the no compromise album.
So Reborn came out around that time and Thought it was awesome.So Well, we can go anywhere.Let's let's go there, right?So we went to Arkansas record there.
We had a friend living out there that put us up for the time so we didn't have to pay for hotels or anything and
And, uh, yeah, it was really cool working with, um, with Barry and he, he, he would push you like as musician, he was pushing the other guys like that.I wasn't tight enough.We're going to do it again.We're going to do it again.
And so it was hilarious.So the, uh, you know, they had to do, I, uh, my son was just born and they had to do tracking before I could do anything.So I'd just be sitting around.So I flew in later.I flew in like, you know, four or five days into it.
And, uh, I wanted to be at home as much as I could.My son was, you know, uh, he was a month or two, two months old.
And, um, so we go, we go out there, they pick me up at the airport and they're like, Oh man, dude, this guy, he, he makes things perfect.Like, Oh, it's good.You're going to have such a rough time.
You know, like it's, he's like, everything has to be on and take it me all this.I, Spend a whole day on one song.And so I show up and get us all plugged in, do a couple sound checks or whatever.And I had been practicing my stuff, right?
Going over the lyrics and my cuts that I wanted, you know.And I bang out the first song and Barry goes, all right, great.You want to do another one?
And the guys are looking at me like what I think I did three I did like three songs the first day Three or four songs the first yeah the first evening basically it wasn't even a full day.
It was just like the evening that's amazing So it was it was a lot of fun.I had some ideas like You know just little just to add like little different things like reverse reverb type things that we do.But no, that was a great experience.
It felt like doing a real, like a real record, you know, like.Sure.And yeah, it was cool, very cool time.And then the excitement that, oh my, you know, this is coming out on friggin' Victory.That was, you know.
Absolutely.What was it like when you heard it, when it was done?I was stoked.
So you, it's hard to explain, like a lot of times when you're up, especially maybe if you're singing or doing the vocals, you don't hear everything kind of, cause, and so when you could sit back and listen to it and how everything clicks in together, like different parts, that's that.
Yeah.That was, that was really cool.
Was Victory stoked on it?
Yeah.Yeah.I think they were.And, um, so we, they did, um, Because I'm, you know, only the strong compilation that they had out.And, you know, we'd see ads in magazines and it did pretty good, especially.And, you know, Christian man, they're like.
You know.Fish out of water or whatever, it's like almost in some sense. But yeah.
Well, it sounds like you got the respect of, you know, obviously Agnostic Front and Hatebreed and all these reputable bands.I mean, that had to feel pretty good, I would assume.
Yeah.And that changed things.A lot less people throwing stuff and yelling stuff.Yeah.Because they saw that those guys were cool with us, you know.Funny because this happened a couple of times.
early in the tours where you don't know each other too well.And someone in one of those, you know, one of the other bands be like, Oh, yeah, that mother effing.
I'm sorry.I'm sorry.I didn't mean.And they'd be like, like, we were like, we were priests or something.Like, we're like, No, no, man, you'd be you.I said, you know, I'm not gonna.I'm not gonna get on your case about that.
I'm not gonna, you know, I do my best not to talk like that.But
you yeah i don't you're no that was pretty funny and like uh uh and then you know them finding out that we had like a pretty good sense of humor and like yeah joked around and like you know just hung out normal people normal dudes we had we had a lot of fun i mean uh kyle and let's see it was kyle
Roger Moret, Dwayne Peters, they'd be playing poker on the tour bus at night and I think the next morning I woke up and all of them only had one eyebrow.They all had to shave off one eyebrow.That's incredible.It was hilarious.
They all looked the same the next morning.It was great.
No, I was going to say, well, I mean, that's I feel like it sounds like you made the right choice in terms of, you know, what's best for your band, obviously, with Victory.
And it sounds like it worked out in a good way for you guys, just putting you in the right tours and all that.And I mean, was that kind of when you did the Agnostic Front Tour?What were the tours like after that record came out?
Was that basically that time frame?
Yeah.Yeah.That was right.Yeah.After Yeah, because tipping the scales wasn't until 2001.Okay.This is right around, yeah, right around the album came out in 99 is when we did the US and European tour with AF.That's awesome.
Well, let's talk about tipping the scales you just mentioned. You know, another progression, another record on Victory.Talk me through that recording process, how that was for you guys and maybe your thoughts on it.
And I know Tooth & Nail got to distro this, so you kind of, you know, got to work with Tooth & Nail at one point.Maybe talk me through that as well, how that kind of came to you.
Okay.Yeah, Tiffany Scales.So that was a... Oh, man.That's a crazy time in my life. So a lot of, a lot of those songs were written, uh, reflect, uh, I guess, growing through pain for me.Uh, my son passed away in 2000.Oh, I'm so sorry.
Um, and I, yeah, even now today when I listen to, uh, Gnostic Front, I listen to like, uh, Ride, Ride, Upstart.I,
feel like I leave my body and I'm transported to a different lifetime because I had, it took me to a time where, you know, I was very happy.And then anyways, after that, that was, you know, it was life changing for me.
So, so a lot of, a lot of the songs reflect, reflect that, the, the growing through pain and, um, We just wanted to make a heavy record, pretty much.We acquired Tim for guitars.Corey parted ways at that time.
And Tim, I see he was at Point of Recognition and a couple other bands earlier on.And he was one of the Red Limbs guys and a friend of ours. he was writing cool stuff and thought it would, you know, it would fit.
And so he would come down to my house and we would just hash stuff out, you know, different riffs, different songs.And I was really stoked on the writing on that album.Musically and lyrically, I'm still stoked on that album.
It just the recording did not come out good.
That's frustrating.What about, why do you think it, was it just where you recorded it?
I think we had, yeah, we did on a small budget.I, just because the state I was in, I didn't want to leave my wife.So we actually did it locally through a friend and I think he tracked it okay.I think it was just the final mix and the mastering.
didn't work out.Like, and I think by the time we were to that point, I think our ears are just blown out from listening to music constantly.
You know, when it's a thing, you know, you're in the studio every day listening and you're trying to listen to all these little different things.
And then pretty soon your ears are just kind of like blown out, not from volume, but just from listening so much.So I, you know, I really wish you could had like a,
you know, give it to some people, listen to this, tell us what you think, what needs to change, you know, like, sure, sure, that would, that would probably help.But, but shoot, so like, when we play those songs live, they're killer.
Because it sounds right.When you listen to that album, it's like, oh, man, there's so many things wrong with it, that it just doesn't come across that energy and the power doesn't come across.So
Um, that's another one right where I wish I could you know, maybe we will maybe remaster and Clean that one up because I really really like some songs on there um when we first Came out with that Album when you're in a band and you're like, all right, here's one of our new ones, you know Here's a brand new one off the new record that no one has yet kind of a thing people just usually kind of sit there and just listen to it and
We actually toured with Hatebreed on that record, and I remember, like, fist smacks over the music.Like, the fist smacks were louder than the music while we were playing live out in the pit, like, for those songs, right?
And they came across so much better live than on album.So, like, now, if we try to do a song from that album, it's like, because people aren't I just don't think as many people listen to it because of the quality.It's just not as listenable.
So trying to do a song live from that album, I feel like it kind of loses the crowd a little bit.We want to keep that energy going and it kind of dies off a little bit.But I still love those songs.
I'm sure going through what you were going through, you know, that probably had a lot to do, too, with maybe the passion or the focus or whatever you want to call it.
I'm sure that probably infiltrated it somewhat and maybe, you know, and I'm sure that's a tough overall, from what you said, you know, a tough, you know, time in your life.So I'm sure that has something to do with it as well.
Thank you for being transparent, by the way.I can't imagine that.I have three kids myself and my son almost died this past year and it's the worst feeling in the world.My heart goes out to you in that aspect.
I mentioned earlier, tooth and nail kind of came into the picture a little bit.How did that kind of happen?And that was kind of cool in a way, being able to kind of be on that.I'm sure at some point you wanted to be
you know, other than the helpless, you know, comp, you know, just be involved with them in some way.
Yeah.So that was the one piece that was missing with Flesh and Blood was it was in Tower Records, but it wasn't in Christian establishments.Right.And so we're like, well, if this album would be cool, what if we can somehow work?
And we talked to Tony about it.What if we tried to do this or it's like, yeah, I'll be up for that.And we actually approached Brandon at Cornerstone.I think it was right before a Living Sacrifices set.I think they played the main stage that year.
We kind of were walking up, snuck up on Brandon.I think we startled him.Like, hey, we got this new album coming out on Victory, but we're lacking distribution in these areas.
Would you be, you know, would you be willing to help us out and take on that part?Exactly. you know, you know, I always liked you guys.And, you know, you know, I always liked you guys.So awesome.So they totally put that up.So that was cool.
Yeah, absolutely.Yeah, I always thought that was cool, because it was kind of like two worlds colliding in a weird way.You know, you got your right to know, you know, I thought it was really cool.
It was really, you know, from an outside perspective, it was cool to see two of my favorite labels working together, which wasn't, you know, that common, you know, especially true.It's like your label and a Christian label.
You know, I thought that was really cool.
The further back you go in time, the less common that is.
So that record comes out.What's the touring like for that?I mean, I know you kind of mentioned Hatebreed, but are you still kind of playing with the same type of bands or are the shows pretty big?How's that going?
Yeah.So the Hatebreed shows were awesome.Our best Our best set on that tour, I remember it because it was in.It's called Spanky's in Florida.Oh, nice.And their bus broke down and we get it, you know, somehow they get a hold of.
You know, they got a hold of us, hey, we're not going to make it robust, broke down, we're way out here, we're not going to make to the show and we're on.Well, it was us.He bring one came down.I think I think it was a flip of a coin.
OK, who's going to headline because nobody You know, I don't think we really wanted to headline her.But so we did a coin toss and I think we headline on that.And I guess it was because Heybreed wasn't there.
They saved all of their aggression for our set.We were playing last and it went off and it was it was awesome.That's amazing.But that was a that was a good tour.And We did some more after that.
And then I think it was, uh, I think, yeah, it was like the last tour we did.It was like, the scene was weird.Like, it just changed.
Like, um, a lot of the, a lot of the scene just, it felt like a lot of it, a lot of people dropped out or, and were replaced by this, these younger kids that didn't really get it.Like.No, I get that.
Um, it was really weird and like weird reviews for albums, like, well, this is typical hardcore.And then.They praise some other.
Hardcore album because there was a violin on it or something was like, I don't know, you know, it was just like, yeah, they're really stretching the boundaries and pushing to that.Well, that's because you push so far.
It's not doesn't sound like hardcore anymore.
Yeah.You don't just do something because it's different.It's got to make sense and sound good.But it was just it was just a weird time.And it was frustrating for us here.We just did these big tours with AF and Hatebreed.
And I think it was we were trying to do our own tour and it was just kind of just wasn't there, just wasn't happening.And maybe I think that's where we were kind of feeling it, just kind of like, oh, I don't know.I don't know about this.
Yeah.Yeah.And maybe, you know, maybe if, uh, uh, another band came up and picked us up to take, go on another tour, maybe that would have changed things, but that just wasn't, you know, it just didn't happen.
Um, that was kind of, we're all kind of talking about, well, you know, we've gone 10 straight years.Um, at least for me, I joined in 92. And so 2002 came around, I was like, well, maybe that's a good number to end it on.
So, I mean, was it, did you feel like you needed to be home more as well?Is that kind of maybe weighing on you somewhat?
Yeah, a little bit.I had two little girls and they didn't quite yet, you know, because they were still very little.
I don't think they noticed when I was gone, but pretty soon they would, you know, like they would realize that dad's gone for three or four weeks or whatever.Sure.So that was, that was a thought.Yeah, that was definitely there.
Um, uh, so when we, you know, we all kind of decided, you know, and we were, I forgot about this.Kyle reminded me about this the other day.I, we were like, yeah, we aren't going to be one of those, reunion bands.
We're not going to do nothing like that.
And, uh, so we, we, we, uh, let's see, we did, it was going to be like our last show at Furnace or, you know, whatever, east of the Mississippi, you know, playing Furnace Fest that last year and, and Flames totally screwed us over.
Um, and our set got cut after like three songs due to sound ordinance because they played twice their set they were supposed to. Yeah.So that was supposed to be our last show east of Mississippi, basically.And so that sucked.
Fly all the way out there.OK, fly all the way home now.And then we did a final show at Showcase Theater, which was like our home away from home.That's yeah, that was that was our place to be if we weren't on tour.Pretty awesome show, because
By that time, Hatebreed was on the OzFest.They had signed some exclusive thing where they're not allowed to play within 250 miles of the fest, wherever it's playing.
But we wanted them to play with us because they're old buddies and they were going to be in town.So we made it really inconspicuous, right?We had somebody, they did a logo and it was, what was it? put in a fake name, but it was in the flames, right?
Yeah.It was one of the, one of the, why am I blanking right now?
And it said, and, and special friends from Connecticut, you know.Oh yeah.It was blatantly obvious, right?
It was cool because our, our, our best friends and the Disciple AD were there and, uh, Terror was just, I think it might've been one of their first shows or something that Terror played.
That was a killer show and the place just went off and it was awesome.And then we went to Puerto Rico right after that.
For five or six shows.That was really cool.
What was the adjustment like not being on the road after you'd been doing it for 10 years or so?Oh, man.
I had so... I started doing like a Johnny Cash kind of rockabilly thing.
What was that called?The Regal Line.Oh, cool.And wanted it to be like super traditional.I played acoustic and electric and a stand-up bass, no drums.So like early Elvis, early Johnny Cash, no drums.Recorded locally with a friend.
It was with Joey and then, uh, record label.They just do a lot of like, it's like Christian rocker really stuff.
Um, so we ended up recording, uh, uh, a full length with, uh, Scott from, uh, plank guy.Oh, that's cool.So we recorded his studio and hung out with him for a while.Did that.I was doing, so the whole thing with like, you're playing the hardcore,
you're just kind of, you're like in a box, you know?
Like I said, you, you, you try to do something too wild and out there, it kind of loses its flavor and be at hardcore, but you're, you know, you're expected to play these venues with these bands or whatever.
And I just, you know, I felt freedom a little bit, like I'll do this traditional thing.And I got boxed in again.It's like, now we're playing, car shows and tattoo festival thing.And I wanted to be out in the normal world, play with anybody.
So, so I did that for a few years, basically, and a whole, I think I was already, I had a bunch of stuff written while I was still an autism victim.I had a bunch of songs written.
And so as soon as, as soon as we dissolved NIV, I just kind of, whoop, kind of swept into that. I did that for a while.So I was still playing music, right?So I wasn't doing that.Yeah.Yeah.So still playing music.
And then I'd play occasionally for church, you know, leading worship for like a set, like for a Saturday night group.Yeah.So I was still doing music and still, still love it.Still love music.Sure.Sure.
Um, so then you want to obviously doing another record in 2004, uh, to burn again, uh, bring me through coming back together and obviously sign a face down, which makes complete sense.
And I'm sure that was special for you guys to, uh, to put that on that label and maybe talk me through that record and maybe your thoughts and like I said, coming back together and doing that final record.Yeah.
we kind of had like from touring being, uh, you know, you meet so many people, different scenes and different groups of kids out there.
And, you know, when we're constantly going out and coming back, going out, going, you kind of have like a, you have a kind of a pulse on everybody, like how they're doing.Right.Or, and then we were just kind of,
Once we broke it up, we were just kind of doing our own thing.And then, man, you get reports like, these people are whatever.They're off, like really off.You know, they've gone off the path.
They're whatever, they're, whether they're, you know, they used to claim to be Christians and now they're sleeping around or... Yeah. Cheating on their wives or whatever.There's we kept hearing all this all this stuff.
I was like, oh Man, what you know?It's really depressing.Yeah, it is it is and like And some of it was you know kind of local and some of it was cross-country but you just kept hearing these reports and this is You know
It wasn't being blasted on the internet or social media because there was the social media wasn't around yet.
So we Wasn't like that, but we just we just kept getting yeah, hearing all this stuff and uh, and then we'd go to shows and Instead of The christian Kids being a light in the dark place.It's like that darkness was quenching their light instead
And they were just letting it happen, you know, and that, that comes through whatever that can come from, uh, going through a rough patch or just being lazy or losing, losing focus.Right.
And I was hanging out with, uh, Corey, who was over at my house and,
We were just talking about some of the people and we're like, man, you know, just get back up on stage one more time and just say, you know, you're on a platform and you could be direct.You know, that's how Carl always was to me.
You know, you get up there, this is what I believe in and everyone should respect you for whatever.They don't have to agree with you, but they respect you because you're straightforward with it, right?Sure.
And I'm like, man, if we can get on the stage, have that platform and just get up there and go, what the heck are you doing?And specifically to the people that call themselves Christians.
And all of our, you know, a lot of our previous writing was kind of explaining our belief to a nonbeliever or explaining our position on certain stances to a nonbeliever.And I just wanted to put in, you know, I just wanted to get up there and like,
yell at the Christian kids, what the heck are you doing?So that's how that idea was born.So we were just going like, well, maybe do a show.And that evolved into, oh, what if we wrote some songs and recorded it?Then we're like, you know what?
Put out a CD, it'll be around a lot longer than us personally.So that's when we started writing that.And if you listen, Those lyrics are very direct and hopefully piercing.Sure, sure.Like hard, hard truth.
So we did, we did To Burn Again and we recorded that in, recorded that in New Jersey as a studio.That's where Hatebreed recorded their first album.I think Dental Jerk's Escape Land did. Yeah, I think that's where we were.
So it was the same thing out there where when I did Flesh and Blood, I did To Burn Again, I felt really good in my vocals.
I get out there to that studio and he was like, do it again.Oh, do that again.Oh, do that again.And my voice wasn't going to hold out for that. Cause that's like doing three shows in one day.It's like, yeah, it's crazy.
And plus you want as much energy cause this is, it's not a live performance, it's a recorded performance.So you're trying to get that energy across.Sure.
So yeah, there was a lot of takes and I eventually, I had to come back home and redo a lot of the vocals, um, here locally.So, Yeah, as far as being on FaceTime, yeah, it just made sense, right?Like, yeah, we wanted.
We wanted, I guess, control, you know, we had control, we had control of everything, we had J.D., J.D.'s in the band, so we could do anything.Not like, not like I don't think victory ever hindered us in any way.Yeah.
But just like, oh, we kind of wanted to keep it like a, I don't know, family thing or. Totally.So.Yes, that just that just made sense.
Yeah.How do you feel about that record?I know you kind of mentioned, obviously, the sound as well or with your vocals, but I mean, overall, how do you feel about the record?
I like that one a lot.I like some of my my favorite songs are on right now.A couple of my favorite songs are on that album.I was very happy because I did like guest vocals on As I Lay Dying.I just did this one little tiny part.
But the guy who was the engineer for their album, he made, it was the best mix of my headphones.I remembered so that I could fully like get into it and make my voice sounded exactly the way I wanted it to sound.
And so that's what I looked up when we got home from New Jersey.I looked that guy up and I recorded half the vocals on that album. I just sang in like his coat closet.That's so cool.At his house.So I was much happier.Yeah, going through those tracks.
I was trying to do some overlay vocal kind of stuff.And I don't know if it made it through the final mix because, you know, the final mix was done by the guy in Jersey.And if he didn't like something, he probably would just turn it off. I get that.
But, uh, so I know there was a, there was other tracks I had laid down, but it's not in there.But overall though, yeah, I'm very happy.I think the sound came out really good.Yeah.
Yeah.Did you accomplish what you wanted to accomplish with that record from what you, you know, obviously like you said, hard truth.I mean, do you feel like you accomplished what you, what you set out to do with that?
Yeah.Um, It was crazy because I was having right before we were leaving, um, it was just, you know, a couple, a few weeks before we already had the recording date set and booked and I might have all these songs I still need to write.
And I was like, writer's block, writer's block, writer's block.At the time that was just like managing a coffee, uh, independent coffee house.And, uh, the girl, his girl I worked with, she was a good friend and,
All of a sudden I started writing the song and everything, this one song, it just started flowing.I was like, wrote this whole song out and I had all the parts, you know, and okay, started going to the next song.
And I was just, you know, we had like a cassette thing recorded from practice that I was going off of.And I'm like, okay, I started writing the second song and I had to call her up and I'm like, um, are you okay?Cause can I not come into work today?
Are you going to be okay if I don't come in? And she's like, yeah, I think we can handle it here.So I'm like, okay.So I sat down and I wrote like nine of the songs.Wow.
And through the morning, through the afternoon, through the night, I was just outside writing it all down.But I'm, I'm very happy.I think they're, they're convicting.That was the point.
To be convicting, not to be like, just slap people around.Yeah.Yeah, exactly.But just to be convicting to where people go, You know, there's a few lines in that.Corey, Corey got busy, you know, Corey did Thieves and Liars.Yeah.
So he was kind of getting busy with them.So he that's he bowed out kind of early on, but he was at the first few shows.We did a fly out with them and we were writing stuff and practicing.
And but once the album was done, you know, you know, you go get in a car or something or you can hear everything really good and going on.And I played it for him and he was like kind of following along the lyrics and he was like, Ouch!Ouch!
It's like, that's what I wanted, like that conviction.
Yeah.Well, so after that record came out, you played a couple of final shows and then in the band again, essentially, what were those final shows like?
They were good.Why did we even, I don't know why we stopped playing.We just, things just kind of fizzled.Maybe we weren't getting so many calls.We weren't like aggressively on our own trying to get shows.
We were just kind of, if people wanted us, they would call us and like, that's how we did it.We did fly outs.Occasionally would fly out to here or there.Got to do Europe one more time with that record.
So we just played with a bunch of bands in Europe, which was cool.Definitely.And, um, played this crazy big festival over there.What was that called?It was a crazy festival and all I remember was this tent we played in was just packed out.Awesome.
And I just remember it was the last show of the tour and I just went so hard that whole entire set, I literally couldn't walk.Like, I couldn't, I barely, we had our van parked right behind the tent.
All I could get to do was just barely walk out to that van and plop down in the back of it, and I couldn't get up.I was gone.Yeah, that was gnarly.
That's awesome.I love that.
Well, that's cool, though, that, you know, even though the band kind of fizzled out like in that aspect, I mean, it's cool that you still, like you said, you got to do some fly outs, got to kind of do it on your own terms in a good way.
Let me ask you this overall, you know, over your whole catalog, what record are you most proud of and what song are you most proud of?
I mean, I probably have to be flesh and blood just because of the timing of it.Just, uh, first record on, you know, getting on victory records, just the whole timing of it was, was awesome.Like I felt like it probably had the most impact.
Um, as far as song, I mean, we, we, Hmm.I mean, my beliefs has gotten, yeah.
Crazy response.And we wrote it.I didn't know it would get that kind of response.But the lyrics, I mean, go right along with, like, what we were dealing with before we signed Victory, like.Yeah.Hardcore is standing up what you believe in, right?Sure.
But you're saying we shouldn't be here.You know, you're Christians.You don't belong here. No.Okay.But hardcore is standing up for what you believe in.We don't, you know, go against our convictions.
Isn't that standing up for what you believe in, right?And I'll up the ante and the idea that you would die for your beliefs.And in my mind writing that, that was like true term, the true term of martyr, right?Yeah.
A martyr isn't running in with the guns blazing.The true old term of a martyr was like the martyr in a coliseum or something.
Or, you know, in these countries that persecute and kill Christians, all right, they got you on your knees with a gun to your head.The night Christ.
Yeah.And that was the idea.Yeah.When that persecution comes, Are you willing to die?
And I mean, I've had to think of that recently, right?I got my kids and, and to this, I, from everything I've been through, I can't, everything I've been through, everything he's pulled me through, I, I can't deny him.
So yeah, I would still die tonight for my beliefs.
I love that.Um, Yeah.So that, that song had a, yeah.Special song, man.
It's had a good, it's had a good, it's had a good impact.And, but there's, there's a few songs off that album that I really love.Whitewash Tomb.Yeah.I wrote that about a televangelist.And, uh, the quote from Jesus, you know.Yeah.
You're whitewashed, too, and you're all pretty on the outside, but you're just full of dead man's bones.Yeah.Love that song.I wrote that song on tour.And who?No, who was there was Eric from Death Star.He was our roadie on that tour.
And I remember me and him like kind of playing around.I had the riff and I was kind of writing the song and he was kind of there hashing it out with me like a small world.
That's really cool.I love that.Well, let's talk about your FurnaceFest.You know, just recently, just playing FurnaceFest, maybe talk me through how that kind of came through and looking back on it, how it was for you guys.
I watched the pylon from a mile away.
A mile away.Come on, man.
Well, I was I was side stage for a little bit.And then I was like, I want to see, you know, I'm too old to get it all up in that.But yeah, talk me through getting asked to play and how it was for you guys.
So they've asked us for a few years.And I don't know who caught the messages, but they were always kind of getting turned down and like, couldn't get everybody to agree, you know, but like, pretty much me and Kyle, we were always like, yeah, why not?
And then like the other guys would be like, no.So we're like, well, here's the answer.We can't do it without them.So this time came around.Oh, what do you guys think about Francis?I'm like, yeah, what the heck?Let's do it.
And, uh, we ended up talking, going back and forth with, uh, I think going back forth with Ryan.I think Kyle was going back for the Ryan and, um, kind of agreed on some terms and kind of talked JD into it.
Then we asked, uh, uh, Davey and Corey and they were like, nope, like right away.Nope, too busy.Okay.So then we, you know, what about you, Tim?And he's like, yeah.So it was kind of initially that's what it was going to be.
Let's go have, let's go have fun, see some old friends, have fun, play show.And then, I don't know, as things have progressed and we're like, well, I was going to fly all my kids out.It was going to be like crazy, stupid, expensive.
And they're not like into hard.They're like in a dad's band, but not like they don't listen to other hardcore on their free time, you know?
Well, I don't think they're going to be like into it, you know, and I've been to so many music festivals where it's like half the time you're miserable if it's like blazing hot and humid or whatever.So I'm just like,
I'd love for them to come out for this because it's going to be a big, you know, big stage.And but same time, the fun to not so fun ratio might not be there.So I'm like, well, maybe we could do a couple of shows back home afterwards.
So that's what we're doing that, too.
Yeah.Yeah.When is that?And who all's playing?
So we're November 22nd and 23rd.I wanted to just do like a back to back, like back in the day on tour kind of a thing.And like, we'll see if we survive it.We'll be we'll be stronger if we survive there.November 22nd, it's a Friday.
It's going to be Chain Reaction, which is a cool music venue has been there forever.And then 23rd is down to San Diego at Brick by Brick, which.We played there in 2018, actually, we did like a reunion show with Dogwood.
And that was a lot of that was a lot of fun back in 2018. So we're going to play there again.And we're hoping to pack those.Hopefully they sell out and we pack them out.
We're playing with some local bands, like back in the day, just playing with some old, you know, some local hardcore bands.
So it should be a lot of fun.Um, and now we're like, well, like the, the initial intention of Furnace Fest for us to go, like I said, it was, well, this is fun basically.And then,
I don't know, a few weeks into that, which, you know, of course this is back in May or whatever.Right.And, uh, I'm like, uh, I just can't do it for just fun.Um, I don't know.I just felt like the Lord put stuff on my heart.
So, um, they got a little more serious, you know?Um, And now we're at a point where we're just like, well, we'll see whoever else is out there that wants to see us play and wants to bring us out.We're open for business kind of, so to speak.
That's cool.That's exciting.So we'll, we'll see.Yeah.We'll see what happens.Like we're not going to aggressively try to pursue anything, but, um, yeah, no, we got, we've had a few interests in doing different music festivals.
So, yeah, I mean, hopefully we'll be able to see more people at different places.
But at the Furnace Fest set, how was it for you?Like I said, it looked bonkers.I mean, what was that like?Was it thrilling?
They were running late.The set, the stage itself was behind schedule, which I think they were every night anyways. But it felt like they wanted to make up the time with us, like somehow.So we never got a real sound check.And they're like, oh, yeah.
So if you need more of this, just tell us during the set.Right.So we start playing.And I think that was not our.
Long term and experience, but our short term and experience, we haven't played in a while and we were rushed and we kind of let ourselves get into that.Oh, yeah, we got to hurry up and get this. And we should have been.No.
The people out there can wait two more minutes for us to make sure that we got bass and the guitars monitor and we have guitar and the basses monitor and the drum head.Nobody could hear anything.I think Jim playing drums could hear.
But Kyle couldn't hear Tim and Tim couldn't hear Kyle and I couldn't hear anybody.Wow.If I went over behind Kyle in between him and his bass cabinet, I could hear him. So that was frustrating.
I've even got a video of me like going to the stage guy on the side, you know, turn it up, turn it up, turn it up.So we had a blast, but that part was frustrating.
And I'm so glad because there's so many videos on Instagram or whatever with people out front where it sounded good out front.I'm like, I don't know how it sounded good out front because we couldn't hear anything.
It was like, yeah, we were running off of instinct or something.Yeah.So very happy.It sounded good up front.I wish it would sound better on stage because that always, uh, helps you to bring more energy, you know?Yeah.
So, um, but having said that, that's the first time we played since 2018 before 2018. I don't think we played since 2008.So.We had three we had three practices.Jim lives four or five hours away.So we got like three year.
I think we only got three practices in to do that show.Wow.
Well, well, thank you.So I'm looking forward to these local shows.We're going to have like a proper sound check. That's cool.And not be so rushed, you know.
Is Jim playing with you guys here on out or is he just filling in?
Initially, so our drummer JD based on records.It was a while back and he called me up and he's like, he's like, man, I just got on a friend of mine's drum kit to try to play along with the set.And he goes,
15 minutes in, he goes, my back is not letting me play.His back was locking up.He was having, starting to feel numbness in the foot.And, um, he's like frustrated.He's like, I really wanted to do this, you know?
Um, and this is the first time where my back's not let me do it, you know?And I'm like, okay, he's like, you have my blessing to find anybody to replace me, you know?So I'm like, well, Oh, I'm trying to scratch my head.Who am I going to have?
You know?And he goes, you know what?If someone's going to replace me, my dream would be to have the guy who inspired me to start playing drums in the first place.I'm like, who's that?And he goes, Jim Chaffin.I'm like, oh, that's awesome.
Well, he goes, I haven't talked to him in ages, you know?And JD's like, oh, we, you know, on social media sometimes we'll chat back and forth.And I said, well, Do you want to reach out to him?And he's like, yeah.
I said, just explain to him the situation and see if he's willing, because we heard that he was going to be out there anyway to play with the blame.Blamed.Yeah.So.So JD got a hold of him and like same night, JD called me back and he's like.
You said he's honored to sound like Bob.What an honor.Oh, man, because I love the Crucified.He's incredible.
He's a machine.He's a machine.Oh, definitely.Yeah, definitely.Yeah, he sounded great with you guys.
Yeah.So so we're doing so he's like, well, what are you guys going to be doing other stuff?And I mentioned maybe we're going to do some California shows.And he's like, OK, so we're doing those.And then and then we're talking, well,
Maybe we should just like write and put out an EP, you know, like, you know, five or six songs or something.I just have put something out there again, you know, and and Jim's like, yeah, I can record that.
I have the recording equipment at my house for drums and notes.So.Is he officially with us or is he filling up?I don't know.Maybe we need to sit down and have a talk with him.Yeah.
I mean, nonetheless, I mean, he's
No, he's an incredible drummer.
Well, I hope, you know, no matter what, I mean, that sounds exciting, you know, to at least have the opportunity maybe to put some new music out and be a, you know, something, you know, creative outlet for you guys still and be able to, you know, still be doing it.
That's pretty incredible.
Yeah, it really, it really is.It's been, it's been cool.I met a lot of people at Furnace Fest, newer bands, you know, The Pain of Truth guys, and they came through here right afterwards.We went and hung out with them at their show.They were so heavy.
Like, so heavy.Yeah.Yeah.It was pretty cool.They played the breakdown part of our song, Never Face Defeat.Oh.We were there, and they go, this goes out to no one's a victim.And they played the breakdown.That's so cool.Right in the middle of their set.
That's so rad.In between songs.That was cool.I'm like, thanks, guys.That was really cool. That's amazing.So yeah, man, FurnaceFest is great just to get a lot of people I haven't seen forever.Yeah.
Yeah, it kind of rekindles that fire of doing it again.Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.Well, Jason, I know you can't predict the future and you kind of mentioned maybe some future things, but what does the future look like for you?
Personally, huh? You know, I've been, uh, well, more grandbabies.That's, that's coming.Yeah.
More grandchildren, man.I love my, my, uh, granddaughter Addie.She's, uh, she's awesome.So yeah, I'll have some more grandchildren here.And, uh, you know, I, I've been involved in, um, uh, different churches.
Me and Corey started a church we did for a couple of years.Um, I was like, uh,
Worship pastor and Corey was like the main Did most of the teaching I did a little bit how much a little bit but still trying to find my place within like a ministry if I'm not you know doing it directly with known as a victim just to Find a spot somewhere else.
I feel I'm at the age now where I could definitely you know, I whether it's mentoring or discipling younger guys, maybe I fit into that role.
But so I'm just trying to find that spot right now, you know, because like I said, I've been involved with other ministries, other things over the years.
So right now it's just kind of like, I got this almost like a little pause, like, okay, what's next?Sure.So That's awesome.
I love that.Well, Jason, I've really, really enjoyed this conversation.
It's really cool to hear your perspective and just kind of your lineage and just overall how you've thought about your musical career and just really appreciate you taking time to spend with me and talk and hang out.
Hey, thank you to the listener for tuning in again and again.I really appreciate it.It's been really cool.So thank you so much for the kind words.If you'd like to like and subscribe, you know the drill.
If you'd like to add me on Instagram and Facebook, I have merch at merchyout.com.It is also a link in the bio.So thank you so much for the support.It's been awesome. Thank you, Jason Moody.Awesome conversation.So cool.
So honored to have you on and just thank you so much for your time.It's really cool to hear your perspective.So thank you again, Jason.Got some incredible artists on the horizon, guys, and you know it.Nostalgia is still a heck of a drove.
The podcast is produced by Wesley Hill, artwork by Jared Chase Bowser, and music by Brian Jarin.This episode is dedicated to the memory of my dear friend, producer, and man of many talents, Brian Jarin.
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