You're listening to Foresight, a podcast about making work better.I'm your co-host, Mark Edgar, a former consultant and coach who now works as a chief people officer on a mission to make work more human.
And I'm Naomi Teitelman, a former big firm consultant and HR executive now striving to make work better, one organization and one leader at a time.
Every week, we'll discuss the latest trends that are impacting the new world of work to help you be a better leader for the future. Welcome to Foresight, a podcast about making work better.
I'm one of your co-hosts, Naomi Teitelman, and I'm excited to welcome our special guest today, Jay Rosenzweig.Jay wears so many hats, it's impossible to sum them all up and do them justice, but I will try.
Jay's day job is CEO of executive search firm Rosenzweig & Company, which he founded over 20 years ago.But Jay is also a very active philanthropist and human rights activist, and also does a ton of work with ventures, among other things.
Jay also happens to be family.Our spouses are cousins and my husband Dave and I are lucky to call Jay and his wife Renee not just family but also dear friends.
So it's really fun when we get to talk shop and I'm so excited for our conversation today, Jay.Welcome to Foresight and how are you doing today?
We're doing well.So happy to be here.Excited to dig into stuff.
Great.Well, before we do, we like to start each of our episodes with a check-in question.So Jay, I used a random check-in question generator for this one.Have you ever used a random check-in question generator?
I'm looking forward to see what comes up.
All right.So I generated, full transparency, I generated it in advance because some of them tend to be a little bit spicy or a little bit boring.
So I had to flick through a few before I found this one, which is, what is the biggest challenge you face in the first 30 minutes of your day?
I think what we all face when we wake up in the morning is really overcoming the inertia in the mind.I think the first thing that's really, really important in the morning is to get centered and to be conscious and to be sharp.
And what I find is there's a number of different ways to do that.One exercise that I often do is to remind myself that I'm alive, that life is the most important thing.You know, 150,000 people every night or every day, let's say, pass on naturally.
And if you think about it, Millions of people are affected every day.So if I wake up and I'm still on, I give myself a little bit of a smile and I call sort of the, you know, five to 10 to 15 people or text them to see if they're all right.
And if they're all alive, I'm just thankful for that in and of itself.And every hour on the hour, it's a good exercise to check your watch and say, wow, two o'clock, still on. So having that as a perspective is really important.
And one of the things that I really try to force into my schedule each and every day is exercise.So I pretty much exercise seven days a week.They say that when you first wake up, you're most anxious for whatever reason.
And when you do a really great sweaty exercise, it releases the toxins and gives you a certain kind of energy.So it's really healthy to do that both physically and mentally.
Amazing.That is a great answer.And I also exercise every day.I can't say it's within the first 30 minutes of when I wake up because I have other obligations in the household, but I do try to get it in in the morning.
And I absolutely agree that once I'm done sweating, my mind is way more focused, so I like to practice that daily too.Your answer was way deeper and way more insightful than mine is.
The biggest challenge I actually face in the first 30 minutes of my day is resisting the urge to grab my phone.
and to see what's going on, what my emails say, what social media says, you know, and I know it's wrong and it's a really bad habit, but it's a really hard habit to break.
So that's the biggest challenge that I face in the first 30 minutes of my day, saying no to my phone.
That's a good thing to focus on and I'll let the audience in on a little secret.I check my phone really quickly as well, just to see that there's no urgent matters that need to be taken care of.
And if there aren't, I resist the urge to respond to things that are not like extremely time-sensitive and then I put it away.And if I don't have any meetings or any urgent matters to take care of, I exercise.
That's great.That's great.Very inspiring.And hopefully our listeners are inspired by that answer.Because I am and you know what, sometimes my kids are sleeping when I wake up and I have 30 minutes.
So maybe I'll try to squeeze that in before, before the rhythm of the day starts.I'm gonna start that next week.
I'll be checking up on you.
Okay, perfect.Accountability buddies are the key here.
All right, well, let's get into it because we have a lot of ground to cover today.So I know a little bit about you because, as I mentioned, we are family and we've shared many meals together and many joyful occasions together.
But let's start with you for our listeners.Can you share a little bit about your journey to where you are today and what inspired you to wear all the multiple hats you do?
Absolutely.Well, one thing I would say is wearing multiple hats is not necessarily a decision.It's more sort of an unfolding, if you will.It's an expression of sort of the different dimensions of my being, of who I am.
But long story short, Montrealer by background, just like you, studied at McGill.I did a philosophy degree and two law degrees at the law school there and met a very important mentor.His name is Erwin Kotler.
He's an international human rights champion. represented many political prisoners over the years.He went on to become Canada's Attorney General and Minister of Justice.And when he got out of parliament, he started a human rights organization.
So we stayed in close touch throughout and asked if I would be the board chair of his newly founded human rights organization called the Raoul Wallenberg Center for Human Rights. And I've been doing that as a volunteer for the last eight years or so.
And it's taken me to all kinds of interesting places, including Kiev, in the middle of a war zone, presenting to the leadership a lot of our work, and that's ongoing work.
We're representing political prisoners all over the world, the women of Iran who've been in prison for refusing to wear a hijab.
We do a lot of work combating the global trend toward authoritarianism, working with the families of hostages in the Gaza, et cetera.Happy to expand more on that.
And I've also independently been doing a lot of work advocating for women in leadership through a report I do called the Rosenzweig Report.
I released my 19th annual report in that regard, which has been expanded really to include the state of affairs every given year on human rights and women's rights.
And I brought in all kinds of influencers from various walks of life to chime in on the report and provide endorsements and quotes. in order to really amplify the importance of the discussion, including you.
You graced our report in one of the past years, which I really appreciate.We've had people like Prime Minister Trudeau, Deepak Chopra, Mark Cuban, Sheryl Sandberg, Elisa Milano, CEOs of major banks and other corporations.
And I've determined to keep doing that work until hopefully one day I work my way out of a job.But to rewind when I graduated law,
I moved to Toronto where I still live and practiced for a little while, but just stumbled into the recruitment business really by fluke with a boutique that grew to the point where Korn Ferry, the largest firm in our sector, as you and your audience is fully aware, bought the firm.
Great experience for me, young guy, firm was acquired.Suddenly I'm one of the youngest partners globally at the world's largest firm. And life was good there.
I stayed on for about three or four years leveraging off of the brand, but I noticed some inefficiencies in the big firm environment.And I'm an entrepreneur really by nature.It's sort of in my blood.
And for those reasons, I decided to break away and start my own firm to really be an alternative to these. large firms, and we've been fortunate.The vision's been realized.We're doing work now all around the world.
We just embarked upon a new search for a major hotel business, CEO search for them, which I'm really excited about.And it's been a great ride.I'll mention a third bucket of activity, which is related. And as you alluded to, I just love entrepreneurs.
So I've spent a whole bunch of time with entrepreneurs, really helping them to scale their businesses.
And because of the fact that I've developed this amazing network that I'm so grateful for, I'm able to help them with things like fundraising and business development.
And because I've developed all this experience, I'm able to help them as well with things like team building and strategic and operational advice and helping them with some of the soft issues as well.
So it's gotten to the point now where I have shares in dozens and dozens of businesses.We've had some great exits.We're on the verge of some others.I am a venture partner in some great venture capital funds.
I'm an advisory board member in a PE firm, which focuses on climate out of LA.And it's really been a fun ride.I'm also involved in the
film and music businesses, I just found out that we're nominated for a couple of Emmys for some films we're involved in, which is pretty cool.And most importantly, always my priority is, is my wife and three kids.
So I'll give you a little bit of an idea of my journey, but certainly happy to dive into any area you like.
Yeah, I mean, all I can say is, wow, is there anything that you don't do or that you're not involved in?
And so I knowing you and from our brainstorm about this conversation today, the common thread among all these different hats that you wear is really relationships.
And you are deeply skilled at building relationships, both personally and professionally.Would you agree that that's a common thread?
Absolutely.Absolutely.Relationships to me are the very fabric of life, whether it's in business, whether it's personal relationships, whether it's family, whether it's philanthropy, whatever it is.Relationships to me are never transactional.
I try to avoid the transactional relationships to the degree I can.You know, from time to time, you know, you have transactions that are helpful, but For me, rather than being transactional, they're transformational.
And I've nurtured so many amazing relationships that have turned into really transformational opportunities for me.And I highly recommend people focus on relationships in that way.
I think it'll make your lives a lot more rewarding if you look at things from that point of view.
Yeah, that comment really, really resonates with me.We at Future Forward have been thinking a lot about the difference between a community and a network.Something about the word network kind of rubs me the wrong way.
We're really striving to build community, which is less about transactional contacts and connections and more about building those deep relationships. So I would love your point of view on why relationships matter in a thriving community.
And do you have any opinion on the difference between relationships and connections?
Yeah, I think I think that's right.Community versus network or relationships versus contacts.I think those are very, very important distinctions that you're making.A network is a web of connections. A community is a living organism, if you will.
So in a true community, people come together not just for their own gain, but to support a larger cause, to support a greater vision.And I could give you so many examples of where I've had that good fortune of building community.
And this network has really helped us to thrive each and every one of us as individuals.A network is more about achieving certain defined goals, but community really helps you thrive.Even in my own firm, I've developed this incredible
community of board advisors.And the one thing that really gives me great joy is when I see that all of these advisors that have connected themselves to my own organization, they end up doing business and philanthropic activities independent of me.
And it gives me really amazing joy to see that kind of thing happen.
Yeah, that really resonates too, because our greatest joy is when members of our community connect with one another and do something amazing together or even solve, you know, a current business problem together.That's where the real impact is.
And I think professionally, I think often times we think we don't have time to develop relationships, we think, and then we find ourselves in at a point in time, either we need a new job, or we're looking to build a new business or whatever it is.
And you look around and you realize that you have a ton of contacts, but you don't have those deeper relationships.So, you know, how have your professional relationships started?And how have they evolved over time?And it helps you succeed?
Maybe you can give an example or two.
Yeah, well, on a very simple business level, I can tell you that that resonates with me.I've had so many executives over the years come to me in between jobs.And, and I really found that.
First of all, what goes around comes around from a very practical standpoint, but even in a more sort of cosmic way, I think it's just good to help people.
And, you know, I've always really taken pride in helping those out that required a little bit of nurturing, a little bit of coaching, perhaps me making some intros into my network.
And one of the complaints that I've found as regards my competitors is unless you've set a certain search, people won't be given the time of day.And it's really paid off big time.Not that I'm really looking for, as I say,
that payoff at the end that's not really my style, but the payoff happens.Once that individual gets placed into that CEO role, they remember the fact that I was helpful to them when they were down.I think that's really, really important.
But there's so many examples, even with Professor Kotler, just as an example, how that relationship evolved.I met him in law school. when I had to present at Moot Court.And, you know, that's a very nerve-wracking experience for a young law student.
It's like pretending that you're presenting to the Supreme Court or to a court of appeal.And who was one of the three judges that walked in, but lo and behold, probably the most prominent and well-known professor at the time.
And when I made my presentation, he had his glasses on his head and he was writing furiously and I was wondering the whole time, like, what is he saying?What is he doing?What is he thinking in his own mind?
And when my presentation ended, he complimented me in his typical gentlemanly way on what I had done well, but proceeded then to list 10 things I could have done better.Each thing interrelated to the next.
And I was sort of in shock and awe, and I thought, I can really learn from this person, and not only about the law.And I asked if I could spend time with him in his office to learn more, and he graciously agreed.
And that kicked off a very important, pivotal relationship in my life. He asked me to be a research assistant of his in summers and the relationship continued to grow.
And, you know, one of the richest aspects of my life to this very day is the human rights advocacy work that I do with him.So it's kind of a full circle moment for me to continue to be working with him.
I just got off the phone with him a few days ago.We had an hour long, incredible conversation. These are the kinds of rich relationships that you can gain when you invest the time and you invest the interest in getting to know a person well.
Another theme that I would suggest people think about is, and this is something that I've always done, and it's part of how I developed all these great relationships, is when you see a little crack in the door,
a little opportunity to walk through, do that because you never know what will be at the other side of it.And a lot of people I find stay in their own boundaries and don't venture out too far.
And if you conduct yourself that way, you may live in comfort and security, but
those walls of comfort and security can sometimes feel like walls of imprisonment if you don't look out a bit more widely to the world at large and seek greater opportunities.
Yeah, very sage advice.And thank you for that example.
For our listeners, some of our more junior listeners, I would say, you know, the relationships that I built very, very early on in my career, not even really recognizing that they were relationships I was building,
are so powerful and meaningful now in deeply personal ways, right?
So for those of you who say, you know, I don't really have time to quote unquote network and go to networking events, just make sure that you're building yourself a community that you feel is going to be enriching for life and for your profession.
And that's not confined to your profession, by the way.It's really important to connect dots outside of your profession, outside of your organization.
A lot of people are kind of so deeply focused within their organization that they don't kind of poke their head up and say, oh, it would be really important for me to meet people outside of my organization.
So these are really, really important steps at all points in our career.
So Jay, you alluded to a couple of tips there, but any other tips you can share with our listeners who may not be as adept as building and nurturing relationships in a professional way?
Really having an open mind to your point is key.Building relationships really requires a genuine intent to connect.So being fully present, really listening to what the other person needs.
Very often we hear what other people are saying, but we're not catching the body language and the nuances.So one of the very, very important aspects of building relationships that I've found is really paying attention to what's important to others.
One of the biggest compliments my clients will give me is, Jay, you really listen.And I hear that a lot.And you turn around and deliver for us exactly what we're asking for.And sometimes
what we're implicitly asking for and not necessarily expressing it explicitly.
But I can give you so many other examples of, to your point, showing up at events, going out of your way to attend things that may not in your mind, very short term, look like potential ROIs, which have paid off big time for me over the years.
So I think really getting out there, I don't think I've ever gone to an event or a speaking opportunity where at the end of that night or the end of those few days, I didn't go home and say, well, that was actually really useful.
I can't remember ever saying this was a waste of time.Really, I guess I'm fortunate to pick sort of the right ones in a way, but even if you have a few duds here and there, it's worth getting out there.
Yeah, for sure.For sure.I would 100% agree.Out of curiosity, are you extroverted or introverted?Do those events bring you energy?Because they suck the life out of me a lot of the time.But I agree.They're always worth it.
Yeah.I don't know.I've never done a self-analysis or been analyzed from that point of view.I absolutely love people.And I'm fascinated by people.And I love developing really deep relationships.But
I guess if I were to give a wild guess and it's hard to label people anyway, I'd probably be more introverted than extroverted, but I'd say introverted in the sense that here's one thing that really, really sucks my energy and that I really, really tried to avoid is small talk.
I have no patience at all for small talk, so my eyes kind of glaze over.I do it as much as I. I need to probably a little bit less than I need to, but I find small talk extremely draining and extremely, extremely wasteful.
I'd rather just dive into like highly controversial issues, you know, and for me, it's never personal.So I'm, I'm happy to get into the most controversial issue over dinner.But if it's about how did you get to work?What's your best route?
What's the weather like?My eyes glaze over.I can't do it.
Yeah, yeah.So I mean, I'm going to say welcome to the introvert club, although I don't even know if that's really if that's really a test, but I'm just I was just curious.I took us on a bit of a tangent there.
Yeah.So a bit of a segue, because we also want to chat a bit about your incredible work on the annual Rosenzweig report, which you mentioned.Relationships have really been foundational to this work.
You mentioned very impressive names who have been part of it, who have given their points of view, have given deep insights.
So it just kind of drives the point home that relationships don't just make you feel good, but can also enable deeper, richer work.So can you tell us about the connection here?How have relationships helped you in this groundbreaking research?
Well, first of all, the Rosenzweig Report itself is a manifestation of a collective effort, whether it be the researchers, the associates that work on it, the graphics people, the technical people, the communications professionals.
It's a collective effort, which is just so beautiful to me and so heartwarming.And all of these individuals who have provided quotes and endorsements come from so many different cultures, so many different walks of life.
What I emphasized actually in this year's report is that I'm so heartened by the fact that all of these individuals from all of these various backgrounds and cultures and experiences have contributed, and I also emphasize the fact that all of the views in the report are my own.
And many of those who are comfortable enough with me to attach their names and words to the report, they may not agree, and many of them don't agree on all of my perspectives.But it's a manifestation of the fact that
we can all be friends, we can all work together, we can all respect one another, while at the same time disagree.And I think there's not enough of that in our world.
A friend of mine recently talked about the state of play in our world today, and his observation was, it's not about the problem is not necessarily about disagreement.It's about disrespect.
The thing that I most love about the report from an internal point of view, of course, externally, the important thing is influencing, but from an internal point of view is the level of respect we all have for one another each and every year and putting this all together.
From a practical standpoint, I can tell you, even though again, I'm not transactional, I don't do this work in order to garner business.It's been It's, it's, it's been naturally a good marketing tool.
And even some of the people that I've brought in to chime in and to provide quotes and whatnot have, have also turned into clients of mine.
Because they like the way I approach things.They do like the fact that I have this perspective on gender equity and the like.
So it's, it's actually been from a practical point of view, beneficial from a business point of view, but I've never used the report itself. to generate funds purposely.
I've had a lot of companies approach me offering to be sponsors and whatnot, but I've never, I've never gone that route very intentionally.
Yeah, that's great.I feel the authenticity in your report for sure.Every year it comes out and you feel, you know, the passion coming from you and your unique point of view.So congratulations on that.That's a tough, a tough balance to strike.
And I know your two daughters, you like to bring them into the fold quite a bit too.So it comes from a really genuine place.That's amazing.
So on that note, maybe you can share with our listeners just a bit about the main headlines of this year's report.
We haven't begun any research yet per se, leading up to our 20th annual report.And the reason we haven't done that yet is because we need to be as current as possible.
Basically, what we look at is the five, essentially the five highest paid executive officers, the NEOs. in each of the hundred largest Canadian publicly traded companies.
So we need to make sure all the information comes in before we begin our research.So that begins sort of in November, but depending on the state of affairs globally, we'll be commenting on that because we do that every year.
The 19th annual report, which we released March 8th on International Women's Day, yielded the very best results we've seen in 19 years when we began this report. 4.6% of the top jobs were held by women.
If you fast forward 19 years later, we're well past 10%.We're in the 11% zone.So it does show that there has been progress.We feel that the speed of progress continues to be too slow, but we're glad that there is incremental progress and we're hoping
that the 20th year will yield even greater results.
But, you know, at the end of the day, conscious leadership will be a major part of whatever we do and talking about the evolution of what a true leader looks like is something that I'm deeply interested in today.
And that'll be an element that we'll be talking about in our next report.
Okay, well, I can't wait to see what the next report holds.Hopefully we'll see another uptick, positive momentum, but maybe not quite this speed or magnitude that we want to see.
So my fingers are crossed that is the next one dropping also on International Women's Day?
On and around then.So we will we will stay tuned. Absolutely.And we're working on some special things for this 20th anniversary.So stay tuned.
Oh, can't wait.We will.We will stay tuned for sure.So sticking with the themes from the Rosenzweig report, many of our listeners are HR professionals.
So what do you think HR can do to help move the dial more swiftly and meaningfully to advance gender equity in our organizations?
Yeah, so I see HR as not simply a function within an organization, it can really be the heartbeat of an organization.
And when I say that, I believe that even from the point of view of advancing gender equality and driving culture from that point of view, it's not only about policies.
Of course, you can implement things like the Rooney Rule and things to accommodate, I shouldn't even use the word accommodate, things that incentivize women to to be able to continue to climb that ladder and benefit organizations.
But it's not only about policy, it's about setting a tone that's extremely inclusive and inspiring, such that every opportunity in the world is available to all, regardless of background, and that goes well beyond gender equity.
And if you set the tone of inclusiveness and realize the value that a diverse group of people bring around the table, I think you'll be on the road to solving this problem.
in a much quicker way, in a much more organic way, such that it'd be motivating for all.I always say that, you know, there is the practical piece because not all leaders think in a conscious and big picture way like they should.
If a business leader just can't understand the moral imperative and the greater imperative of benefit that all will yield from an inclusive environment, study after study shows, as you know, that the bottom line
benefits from a greater amount of diversity around the table.So there's a multifaceted way of looking at this, depending on who your audience is, and HR leaders are at the core of all of it.
Yes, I agree with all of that.So Mark, my co-host, and I have had quite a few episodes on the topic of diversity, equity, and inclusion given, you know, SHRM's decision to drop equity from their mandate or their, you know, areas of focus.
The HR community was not so happy with that, you know, the backlash around DEI.And really, you know, we've had quite a few discussions about, you know, exactly to your point, you know, if you focus on the inclusion, the diversity follows, right?
So we had a session with Nate Shalev, who's a big voice on LGBTQIA matters, come to our community.
And I had a big aha moment that said, where we were talking about, you know, don't ask me to check your box if you're not going to show me that you're going to use it for good. Right.And that was really, really powerful.
So if you're not going to create the systems and the systemic inclusion, then don't ask me to join your your company, first of all, and certainly don't ask me to join to check a box so that you can meet your quotas.
Exactly.At the end of the day, one last thing is people, you need to set a tone in an organization such that each person feels valued, respected, and empowered to contribute to their fullest.
And as I say, all else falls into place, but you put it very well.And I think inclusiveness is at the core of all of it.
Yeah, yeah.And HR, there's so much that we can do as HR leaders to support leaders in driving this, right?Because without leaders understanding what their role is in inclusion, it's not scalable or sustainable.
You can't just say HR, go do DEI, right? Like that doesn't work.So it's a partnership that's really required and, you know, could be a bit of influencing.
In fact, a lot of influencing that has to happen from HR, not just because it's the right thing to do, but because it is, but just because you're no longer required to have X number of X population in your leadership team doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.
So how do we create those systems so that it's considered in every single thing we do, as opposed to something separate that we do?
Well, that is a great place to wrap up our discussion, Jay, although we could go on for hours and hours.But before we drop, we always like to end on a feel good, on a positive note, which we fondly refer to as a feel good.
So Jay, what are you feeling good about today?
Well, I've been deeply grateful over the last few weeks for the simple joy of having all three of my kids under the same roof.Incredible, you know, as the kids get older, they disperse in all kinds of different places.
My eldest daughter, as you know, is getting married and so she and her fiancé are living in the basement as they figure out stuff related to their future home.
My artist daughter is, is with us permanently and my son was with us for a few weeks before heading back to the university where he's studying engineering.
So there's no greater joy than having my wonderful wife and my three kids all together under one roof, just having laughs and just spending meaningful time together.So that's my big thing over the last little while.That's so good.
The greatest, greatest joy for me.
So, so good.Well, thank you so much for spending time with us today on Foresight.And before we sign off, can you tell our listeners a bit about how they can learn more about the great work you're doing?
Sure.You can follow my personal website, which is myname.com, so jayrosensweig.com.Follow me on Instagram, rosensweig underscore company. I'm on LinkedIn, you can find me easily there.
Always happy to receive reach outs and socialize and see where I can be helpful to you and your community, your beautiful community that you're building.
Great.Well, thank you so much, Jay.I look forward to connecting very soon.And for all our listeners, take care until next time, everyone.Thanks again, Jay. Thanks for listening to Foresight.If you enjoyed the episode, we would love to hear from you.
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