Darcy Main, in early December, you got an interview with tennis star Naomi Osaka, a player who is very selective with who she grants interviews to by the bye.As you sat down with her, what was going through your mind?
I like how exclusive you just made that sound.I was definitely excited for the opportunity, especially for someone who has been largely out of the spotlight for the last year and a half or so.
But with that said, having had her be out of the spotlight, I wasn't entirely sure what to expect. I had seen some clips of her practicing on social media, but I didn't know how she'd actually look on the practice court.
I didn't know how she'd be in an interview at this point.She rented a private house in Sherman Oaks, California.Quintessential Spanish-style architecture, L.A.house.
There's a pool and these beautiful lemon and pomegranate trees, and of course, a private tennis court. A few members of her team stayed there.She lives about 20 minutes away.So she was there six days a week for most of the day.
And that became kind of Naomi headquarters during this comeback.
You did get to watch her play tennis.You mentioned, what did you see in her game?
You know, again, yeah, I didn't, I didn't know what to expect.I didn't know if having a TV crew around would make her nervous. What surprised me was how happy and relaxed she looked to be out there.We didn't see that a lot in 2022.
I'm a bit of a perfectionist, so I think in my head, like, I'm the perfect player in the past, but I know that's not reality.
In your time at Camp Naomi and the day that you spent there, what were you trying to find out?
I think all of it, right?I wanted to know how her game was looking, how serious this comeback was, but I also wanted to see that happiness factor.Was she happy to be back?Is this a chore or is this something she wants to be doing?
After winning four major titles in his many years, Naomi Osaka was anointed the next face of the game in tennis on and off the court. But in the years since, the superstar of Japanese and Haitian descent stepped away from the game twice.
First, to prioritize her mental health, and then to welcome her first child.
So today, on the eve of Osaka's first Grand Slam match in 17 months, Darci Mane brings us exclusive access inside Osaka's comeback, examines how motherhood has changed her relationship with the sport,
and discerns whether this Australian Open will see a return to greatness.I'm Clinton Yates.It's Friday, January 12th.This is ESPN Daily. Anywhere worth going is worth going in good boots.Find your perfect pair with Tekovis.
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Tacovus.com slash daily.See site for details.Tacovus, point your toes West.Darcy, you've been covering Naomi Osaka for several years now, but please do tell us about the first time you reported on her.
I had known about her for a long time.But in 2018, I was actually in Indian Wells to cover primarily Serena Williams' comeback from childbirth.And then on the first night of the tournament, Naomi played Maria Sharapova.It was on center court.
And I remember sitting out there, the crowd was really into it, of course.
Once again, it's a case of anything you can do, I can do better.Maria Sharapova is trying to use all of her experience to dig herself out of this situation.But the home crowd are really warming to the Japanese player Naomi Osaka.
And I was so impressed because Naomi just held her nerve the whole time, even though the crowd, most of the crowd, I think, didn't know who she was at that point.And she ended up winning in straight sets.
And I remember at the time, my editor who was there and I talked the next day and we're like, we have to do something on her.She's so interesting.And she ended up winning the tournament.
But the day when it started and when it finished belongs to Naomi Osaka.Her first career title. And it's a biggie.6'3", 6'2", in an hour and 10 minutes to become Queen of the Desert.
That was her first WTA title, and I just found her and her press conferences at that point, which there was maybe three of us in most of them, I found it just so refreshing.
You had to guess, why do you think you've become a fan favorite at this point?
I don't really know.Um... I don't really know.I don't know why they cheer for me, honestly.I think... Yeah, I have no idea.But I am grateful for it.So, like, for whatever reason, I want to say thank you.
What was so fascinating about her then, even though many people did not know much about who she was?
You know, it's the same thing that I kind of like now in that she doesn't have any formal media training.
And so while a lot of athletes will give you a very cliched answer, most of the time, a lot of the time, she always will come back with something that's thoughtful and she'll take a beat in a sense, in a way that other people don't.
And I think to get that kind of honesty is different.And also at that point, she was being asked a lot of very random questions and she handled it so well and was funny and engaging, but also her authentic self.
And it was so different, especially in tennis.There are a lot of players that kind of give off that robot vibe, but that's not Naomi and it hasn't been.
And she's just sort of handled this in a different way, but it's been really enjoyable to watch as an outsider.
After beating a generational star in Maria Sharapova, success aside, she was very famous, to get her first WTA title.What happens next for Osaka in her career?
What didn't happen next? I mean, most notably in 2018, she ended up winning the US Open.As many will remember, I certainly will never forget.
That was the controversial final against Serena Williams, where Arthur Ashe Stadium kind of transcended into some chaos and some boos.
The match turning to mayhem after chair ump Carlos Ramos issued Serena a violation, claiming her coach had given an illegal sign from the box.Serena seething.I don't cheat to win.I'd rather lose.I'm just letting you know.
Serena breaking her racket, threatened with another penalty.The situation escalating.
You need to make an announcement that I didn't get coaching.
Later, handed another penalty.Yeah. In the end, Osaka outplaying her idol.
She was given one game and one point.She absolutely earned everything else.
She did.She did.And she was a champion this whole tournament.The composure, the maturity, but now the tears of joy.She's won her first Grand Slam.She's made history for Japanese tennis.
One person who did deserve to get booed, the chair umpire.Don't fight me about it.
And that victory, in part because of how well she had played throughout the tournament, but also because of sort of the circumstances of that final match sort of thrust her into this like mainstream superstardom basically overnight.
Naomi Osaka joins us now.Naomi, good morning and congratulations.Thank you.Let's just talk about your win.You're the U.S.Open champ.You're so young.
You seem to, for people that don't know tennis as well as others, you kind of came out from nowhere and had this incredible tournament.How are you feeling this morning?Is it still kind of sinking in?
I mean, I've never been on a talk show before.We're your first?Okay.
And then she ended up winning the Australian Open in the very next major in January of 2019.
Naomi Osaka is the Australian Open champion.She is the new world number one.And she simply has the world at her feet.
And then taking over the world number one ranking.So everything happened very, very quickly.
Behind the scenes, of course, we now know that even while winning, she was struggling quite a bit with mental health issues and very much thought about leaving tennis entirely.What did you learn about Naomi as an athlete throughout all of this?
I mean, I can't imagine what it's like to go through First of all, to become a known name because of the 2018 US Open final, that's a really tricky way to be sort of thrust into the spotlight.
And I think the fact that she continued to play well, and she focused on her game at the Australian Open, and all of a sudden, there's all this pressure on her and the fame and the attention.And I thought she handled it so well.
That's not a natural experience for anyone. And the fact that she continued to focus on tennis now, as you said, we know that she was going through a lot behind the scenes.
But in those initial couple months, anyway, we didn't know just how tough it was.
What do you think the turning point was for her after reaching number one and struggling to stay at the top?What happened to her on the court?
Well, you know what's interesting?She, I think, proved very quickly she was the best hardcore player on the WTA Tour.But she hadn't had a ton of experience on grass or clay at that point.
And that kind of, she became a little bit exposed on those surfaces.And again, she just didn't grow up playing on them.That's not unusual for players that grow up in the US, which she did.
And so she ended up having early losses at the French Open in 2019, and then the first round at Wimbledon.
And how do you go about sort of restoring your confidence after this?What do you do over the next few days to pick yourself up?Who helps you do that now?
I don't know.There's answers to questions that you guys ask that I don't, I still haven't figured out yet.
I remember sitting in that press conference, and it was so uncomfortable, and not because of her, necessarily.
She was being asked some tough questions, and still very young, clearly very upset over the loss, and she ended up, after just a couple minutes, saying, I think I'm gonna cry, and leaving.
You've pretty much become a global superstar over the last 12 months by winning in Australia and New York.
And the rest of us just sort of sat there.It was so abrupt, feeling...
all sorts of emotions, mostly just as a human, I felt terribly for her.It was clear she was so distraught over this loss.And I think that was the first time I really saw, and maybe others as well, that, okay, this is tough.
She, at times, seems so poised and in control, and is obviously doing well off the court, too, with all these endorsements and sponsorships, but this could take a toll.
Eventually she did make her struggles with the press and public and the 2021 French Open is a situation that many of us remember.
Osaka was fined $15,000 by the organizers of the French Open after she said she would not participate in press conferences, then pulling out of the French Open and the Wimbledon tournament, saying she was dealing with depression and anxiety.
Writing in Time, the World No.2 argues that the sporting community does not treat mental health seriously enough, saying, Athletes are human.
I wrote a column about it.I could go on a whole long rant about the arrogance of French people dating back to the week I tossed, but I'm not gonna do that.You can read about that on your own at Andscape.
But what did you learn as a reporter from this moment?And do you think it was actually a tectonic shift in what I'll just call the narrative of what we're supposed to do as journalists, never mind athletes?
I remember your piece really vividly because I was so struck by it.I thought it was a great piece.And you're right, I think it was a turning point for those of us in the media and then I think for fans as well.
I think it's easy to forget at times that athletes are people too.And would you want to have to answer questions after your worst day at the office to a room full of strangers?I know I wouldn't.And I thought it was almost this great reminder of,
hey, she's a person, and this would take a toll, especially for someone who's naturally introverted, which she is.And it was a good reminder, I think, for journalists to say, hey, it's okay to ask the tough questions, that's your job.
But at the same time, we're all people, and there's a way you can ask a question.There's a way you don't have to ask certain questions if it doesn't feel appropriate.There's just ways you can treat other human beings, basically.
We should note that Naomi's main concern here was the timing of the press conferences, essentially saying, can we get a little bit more of a buffer between the match and the media appearance, but it kind of got conflated with a lot of other stuff.
And I do think a lot of light was shed on the tennis media, specifically in terms of who they are with their history of the cattiness, the snottiness, if you will, as a member of the tennis community, what was the self-reflection point like there for everyone?
You know, it's interesting.And I think what's different about tennis versus, say, the NBA or NFL where you tend to get the same reporters over and over, there's a ton of beat writers.
In tennis, you can have half the room be people that just cover the French Open and then don't go outside of France.
Or at Wimbledon, you'll get a number of the sort of British Tabloid reporters that'll show up and ask a question about the royal family in the middle of someone's press conference.
So it's really different and you don't necessarily have the same rapport as well for these athletes of they'll know some of the people, but then these other people are complete strangers who are now asking them, well, why did you lose so badly today?
And I think that's, it's an interesting point and why that would be so difficult.I've never seen you before in my life.And now you're reminding me of that.I played like garbage, like, gee, thanks.
But I think even for those of us who go to multiple events throughout the year, It's a good reminder of, you know, that your words matter.And it's just, again, like the tone and what's appropriate and what's not.
And just understanding someone's having a tough day.You don't have to rub it in.
January of last year, she announced her pregnancy.What did you in the greater tennis world think about if and when she might be coming back?
When she first made the announcement on social media, I really wondered, is this it?Are we going to see her again on the tennis court?It had been clear that tennis wasn't really bringing her a lot of joy at that point.
And I thought with the time off, she might realize, hey, there's other things that bring me happiness.And not just being a mom, but her business ventures and whatever else.And I thought, I don't know if we'll ever see her again.
And I know I wasn't alone on that.I can't say for the whole tennis community at large, I'm not sure.Although I know a lot of people really did wonder. But on that same social media post, she said, I'll see you guys next year at the Australian Open.
And she has stayed completely on track to that very first promise.And I think it's amazing that she set her goal and her mind on that.And here we are.
To stay on that track, she started training for seven weeks beginning in early October.Who else on Naomi's team did you talk to besides her for this story on how that training session went?
I talked to quite a few members of her team, but I would say I spent the most amount of time with her coach Wim Fizet and her performance coach, Florian Zisselberger.They had been staying in that house, you know, since early October in Los Angeles.
And it was really interesting to kind of get their perspectives.They both were blown away by her movement, which had been one of the first things I noticed as well.
And it seems like Naomi had just bought in completely to the process and everything they brought to the table and the game plan. I did watch her for about an hour on court before I sat down with her.
And I tried to get a sense of her energy and her vibe and just general demeanor.And she really impressed me in every way during our time together.I was surprised in the moment of just how good she looked.Her hitting was clean and it was so powerful.
Her movement around court was really, really impressive.That's something that I know her team really focused on.
And it's something that a lot of players struggle with when they're coming back from a long layoff, whether it's maternity leave or an injury.But she was so quick and she was so agile.I was kind of blown away.
Amy Van Dusen, who was the editor on the written piece, was there as well.And at one point, we just kind of looked at each other like, Are you seeing this?
Because it was just, you wouldn't know she had been away for as long as she had and had only been back on the court at that point for something like seven weeks.
Wim said, and I thought this was really interesting, he just did not think this training block could have gone any better than it did.Which, coming from a coach, I was surprised by that kind of positivity.
Being back on the court, you said it feels different now.What are you enjoying most now about it?
I'm definitely enjoying the challenges.I think every day brings a new adventure and it also brings a new obstacle, but it feels fun to, I guess, conquer those challenges now as opposed to before.
I think I would feel a little bit threatened by the challenges.
So what is different?How are you approaching that differently?
I think I have more appreciation for the sport because I kind of realized like the athlete lifespan isn't that long.So I just have to make the most out of the time I have now.
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The story of Naomi's return connects to a larger story within tennis and, frankly, many other sports about parenthood and the decision whether or not to interrupt or shift your career by becoming a parent.
And that conversation is especially fraught for those who physically give birth.Shortly after giving birth last year, Naomi was a guest on the podcast of retired Olympian track star Alison Felix. who's also a mother.
Naomi discussed the decision to have a child despite feeling like there's pressure for women to not get pregnant while pursuing a tennis career.
For me, I've always had the assumption that if you have a kid, it's basically the end of your career.
Like, I always wondered what my sponsors would do and stuff like that, and, um, it was definitely really concerning, but then I was thinking about it, and I was...
In my head, I was like, I wonder why guys that are younger than me and around the same age as me aren't able to have kids and they're kind of just walking around like everything's fine.
And it irritated me a little bit because I felt like I was a lot more accomplished than them but they weren't dealing with any of the repercussions. that women have if they need to have kids.So, that kind of softened the pressure for me.
So, around tennis, in 2024, what is still the general attitude towards players who give birth?And how does that compare to how this was going down, let's just say, five or six years ago, with Serena Jamika Williams?
You know, Serena wasn't, of course, the first.I mean, Kim Clijsters came back and won a couple majors after giving birth, and there were women before.But I do think the Serena effect is real, right, in every aspect of the game.
And I think having a baby while being an active player is another thing that Serena kind of changed the game.And we're seeing, I don't want to say a huge number, but we're seeing quite a few of the top players
giving birth and coming back as a mom in a way that we really didn't see.
Serena happens to be my favorite athlete of all time.And this is a bit of a z-axis aside here, though, a lot of other sports, especially team sports, don't, in fact, do this well at all.And it is quite controversial.
In your eyes, in the tennis world, has there been an official path towards people accepting this as a reality as opposed to being like, oh, she got it done, but everybody else, not going to work?
You know, that's a really interesting question.Serena is also my favorite athlete of all time.I don't know if I'd necessarily say tennis does it well yet anyway.It's not like we're seeing daycare options provided at every tournament at this point.
I know that's something the LPGA does, which is interesting. So I do think it's actually interesting that a lot of the women we're seeing are the top players because they have the money and the resources to bring a nanny with them full time.
I think that is something we're seeing.
It'll be really fascinating when sort of more of the mid-level players do this, which we're seeing some, but I think it's interesting that a lot of the women we're talking about now are major champions, former number ones, have been at the top of the game.
And I do think there's probably some correlation there too. resources and finances.
Getting back to Osaka, Naomi has always gone against the grain.She's been herself through all of it.And that kind of goes against people's expectations for athletes, particularly, as we said, women's tennis stars.
How do you think becoming a mother has changed her?
You know, she said this when we were chatting and she said that it's changed her perspective in the sense that it's not just about her anymore.
I think kind of going back to that last point, professional athletes have to be somewhat selfish in order to succeed.You have to be taking the time away from your family to do these things, to be your best.I think that's just the nature of the game.
But she acknowledged that she is not her own top priority anymore.She shares that space or is second now to Shai.And I think it's helped her compartmentalize as well.
I saw that she joked in Brisbane last week that playing tennis beats changing diapers.I know she was joking, but it is kind of interesting.
I think it gives that perspective of how much she is enjoying this time on the court now, because she knows there's other things in her life and this is something she gets to do, she doesn't have to do.
And I did ask her about this.I guess giving birth to my daughter changed my mindset a lot.And it's also made me
I guess realize that my world doesn't have to revolve around me, which might also be a little selfish too, but I guess just finding outer happiness and inner peace.
So when she's on the tennis court, she's a tennis player, she's going to give it 100%.But when she's at home and she's with Shai, she's going to be a mom, be 100% with Shai and enjoy that time.
She also told me that she plays her best when she is playing for something bigger than herself, beyond herself.She told me.
I'm not the type of person that can play for myself.Whenever I did well, I've always had a reason, if that makes sense.And now I just feel like I want to show her the world and I want her to like grow up and see what I've done for such a long time.
We saw that at the U.S.Open in 2020, where she was so vocal about the Black Lives Matter movement.And that kind of fueled her in a lot of ways to that victory there.And I think now she wants to play for her daughter, make her daughter proud.
And I think we've seen for her that that can really be a huge motivating factor.And I wouldn't be shocked to see her play her best because she's playing for her daughter.
For those that don't know what Darcy's referring to, she wore seven different masks for seven different victims of police brutality in the United States, and it was quite, quite the moment.
Now, we've been talking a lot about Naomi herself and her personal journey as an athlete, but let's actually talk about the tennis.We saw her knocked out in the second round in Brisbane last week.
What are you looking to, from her, on the court at the Aussie Open?
No, it's interesting.Coaches always say this, players always say this, but it's true of no matter how much time you spend on the practice court, you can't replicate match play.It's just impossible.So she's only played two matches.
So it is tough to know or even guess what we can expect from her.She did show some impressive moments in both of those matches in Brisbane last week.
And it's important to note that that second round loss was to Carolina Pushkova, who's a former number one herself.And it was a really tough battle.There was a second set tiebreak.It went three sets and she played really well.
It's hard to replicate that length of a match to that tough of a match.And I think that experience of losing in a match like that will actually be really valuable to her in Australia and beyond.
And it gives her kind of a gauge of where she's at against some of these best players.
Naomi has not been at the top of the rankings recently.So that first round draw could in fact be a tougher matchup than most people realize.How do you think that's going to go?
Yeah, that's exactly right.Because she's not a seeded player, we knew she could potentially be facing just that, a seeded player.And that's exactly what happened.She's facing the number 16 seed, Caroline Garcia.
And that is not going to be exactly an easy matchup for either player, to be honest.Garcia's the number 16 seed.She's proven quite a bit just how dangerous she is on the hard court.
But I would imagine this is one of those matchups where neither one of them was particularly thrilled to see the other name. listed when the draw came out, but also could be a great test for Naomi at this point in her comeback.
It is worth noting, and obviously there's a lot of tennis to be played to get to this point.
But if Naomi were to win that first round matchup, and if she were to go on to win her second and third round matchups, she could potentially face Coco Gauff in the fourth round.And that, of course, would be incredibly compelling.
Coco is the reigning U.S.Open champion and one of the brightest young stars on tour.They've known each other for a long time.They've played a couple of times, and everybody would want to see that matchup.
You spend time with the camp, picking pomegranates in the Valley.You understand how the operation works now.
What did you get as a sense from your reporting about where she is in general to just be back on tour, back on the grind and back in this full-time as a tennis player?
I think that's a really interesting point you just made.There is a grind of this tennis season.It is long.The traveling around the world is tricky, no matter if you're a mom or not, injured or not, any of these things.It is a really tricky balance.
I want to mention a quote that Wim, her coach said, because I think it's so strong and it kind of emphasizes how the team feels about her at this point.He said, we're realistic and we don't know what to expect at this moment, but Naomi is special.
You always have to think of her as a potential winner. And I think that's right on of, yes, who knows?She could lose in the first round.It's her first major back.There's nerves, there's rust, so there's all these things.
But Naomi is special, and she is capable of making a deep run, and her team believes that, and I think she does, too. How will you define success at this point in your career?Is it any different than it was previously?
Yeah, I think when I was younger, success was like how many trophies I would win or things like that.Not materialistic, but it wasn't like something that I wanted for myself.And now I think like success is
I don't want to say inner peace, but it's just like having the people around you that love you and they're all good and you're good and just being happy with you or content.
Has Shai changed that perspective for you?
She has, I think.I don't know.With her, everything's so simple, which I guess all babies are, but it's just fun to, like, want to see her grow up and see the type of person she's going to be.
Well, you guys are both in the mom's club now, so how was that?
You know, I thought that was really interesting because after the interview, she didn't sort of just rush off, which a lot of athletes do.
We ended up chatting for a couple minutes just about, I have an almost one-year-old, so just a couple months ahead of Shai, and talking about some of the milestones and kind of comparing notes and what works and what we're liking and maybe a few things that aren't as glamorous.
So it was like this human connection that you don't always get. And I was really, it was refreshing.And I enjoyed that just moment of two humans talking about, you know, motherhood and having a baby.
Y'all's group chats do not have Grand Slam champions on them for moms.Darcy's does. Darcy Maine's reporting on Naomi Osaka is up today on ESPN.com.
And in today's episode notes, we've also linked to my own commentary from 2021 on Naomi's decision to prioritize her mental health and withdraw from the French Open that year.I'm Clinton Yates.This has been ESPN Daily.
Our show is produced by Bruce Baldwin, Ashley Brown, Bradford Craig, Andrew Han, Alexander Hyacinth, Ryan Nantell, Mike Philbrick, and Phoebe Untermann.Special thanks to Jackson Ajello.We'll talk to you next week, kiddos.
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