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Wake that ass up in the morning.The Breakfast Club
Morning everybody, it's DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha Guy, we are The Breakfast Club, Lauren La Rosa filling in for Jess, and we got a special guest in the building.We got Jahliel White, welcome.
I'm doing great, man, I'm having a good morning.
Good to see you, brother.Good to see you, brother.You got your new book, Growing Up Urkel, a memoir.Why you do the 80s, 90s R&B cover on the front, bro?This ain't even 80s, it's like 60s, 70s R&B.No, don't take me back.Early 80s, early 80s.
Early 80s.That's the Mike Jack pose.That's 80s.Why this pose?
You know, I did it because for anybody who's a fan of the Stefon character, they know that he was debuted in a white suit.I said that.When I first saw it, I said, this is Stefon.He was debuted in a white suit.
And then I love having fun on Instagram anyway.And Instagram has that meme that has all four of the greats.It was like Luther Vandross, Lionel Richie, Teddy Pendergrass, Michael Jackson hit it last, but of course, he hit it the biggest.
So for a black man in the 80s or born around that period, when you put that picture on the front, it just means, hey, the contents are fire.But nobody even notices on the back.I actually give you- I see you jumping around.
Yeah, on the back, I give you the high water pants and the Urkel shoes, and nobody even notices it.
Nobody notices that.Nobody even notices it.You don't got the glasses on, that's why.Yeah, that's probably why.So you don't mind being called Stephon?
It's not even about mine.It is Stephon saved my life. Like, just black women everywhere just choose to call me... When you walked in?
No, I heard it.When he walked in, I was like, oh, my God, lit up when you walked in.Does that happen to you all the time?And you were like, yeah.Because when you walked in, I instantly remember you walking on the screen and being like, oh, shoot.
Like, I heard the music and everything.
That is why she heard the music.I'm trying to tell you.No, I love it.With black women in particular, the 24 episodes out of 215 that I did, they only keyed in on Stephon, and they were just relieved that I wasn't really like that.
I've always loved your story, though, because, you know, you are the epitome of, you know, taking advantage of a moment.Seize an opportunity, right?Because you were only supposed to be on one episode of Family Matters.How'd that happen?
Uh, again, um... Charlamagne, I was just a black kid that wanted a Sega Genesis dog. It really wasn't that deep.My dad told me that I could get one of anything whenever I got a job because I was resisting going on auditions at this point.
I was five foot four and he was ready to play basketball.We don't get into basketball talks at some point.And I really wasn't I wasn't booking jobs at age 12 too much because a lot of the stereotypical roles, I just wasn't fitting it, my profile.
Like I said, I had braces, I'm 5'4", and I saw this audition come through and I was like, I can get this job.
The description I included in the book was just, you know, nerdy character Rick.Matter of fact, I was described as a Rick Moranis type.So that just shows you what the writers room was already doing.
They're casting a black kid and asking for Rick Moranis type.So I actually read that literally.And then I went and got the best of Saturday Night Live VHS tape that we had in our house.And I found Ed Grimley.
And I basically was doing a black kids version of Ed Grimley, and it wasn't really a good impersonation, quite frankly, but because nobody thought that was my inspiration, it became mine.
It's amazing you can't trademark, I don't want to say a character, because I'm sure you can trademark a character, but the mannerisms of a character.
The voice.Did I do that?Do you know what I mean?We only think about that stuff in America, man.
Did you get the second genesis?I was just always curious.Of course I got the second genesis.
Of course I got the second genesis.
Did you want to act?Acting was just something that I just did naturally.I've been doing this since I was three.So, you know, did you want to do anything that your parents got you started when you were three?It just came naturally.
I didn't resist it and I enjoyed it.Of course you always enjoyed getting a day off of school to go someplace and yeah, exactly, and have some fun.But as I got to be around the age of 12, I didn't really want to act anymore.
I wanted to play basketball. But once I got the show, then I started getting reps in at a different pace.And now once you get reps in, you prove yourself good at something proficient.Like I remember the exact episode where I'm like, oh, this is fun.
And this audience is my toy.And the episode is called The Big Fix, where I took Laura on a date for the first time because Eddie needed to pay off a bet.And I leveled this French restaurant.
Oh my God, I remember that episode so well.
Yeah, that's the first episode where I'm like, I can hear the audience different.I can see it in my eyes when I watch that episode.
Before we get into that part of it, is it true that you tried out for Rudy Huxtable, that part?Yeah, I did.That's what that name Rudy was for, boy.
It was for a boy.So there was a debate there and, you know, he obviously won out over the network at the end and Keisha got the role.How close did you get?Oh, it came down to me and her.That's it.They auditioned us all day.
I actually never forget that audition. Because they brought in, they always bring in like two or three options for each role.But they put us in one room for like several hours and kept pairing us and going in and out.
And I talk about that in the book as well.And at the end they said, hey, listen, we are pressed for time. So we will take you, you, you and you and the rest of you, thank you for coming out.
So you had all these crying kids just pouring out of that building that had been there all day.And I remember my mom was like, she just had a huge reaction to that.She was like, if you ever react like that to losing an audition again.
Oh, you cried, you was bawling.
Oh, we were bawling.I mean, that's a cold way to lose a job when you're seven years old.
Did you really understand, though?
To be picked right in front, you know, right in front.Because generally it happened, you know, your agent will call you or your agent didn't call you.And my mom was never the type to call the agent also and be like, did we or did we not get the job?
And a lot of parents do that.
But did you really understand at seven years old, like, oh my God, I'm losing this job, this is, like, what this could be?You were just like a kid and it was like, no, so you cried?Like, what did you think?
No, well, we were supposed to move to New York.
So they had already talked to my parents through our agent and everything, and my dad was trying to figure out, because he was just graduating from dental school at the time, my dad was trying to figure out how to do this from New York.
They had practically said the job is yours, and then a little girl came walking in. I mean, they do that kind of stuff all the time now that I'm an adult and I know that, but at the time it was just very shocking.
And then you become a big fan of the show, right?So you're looking at the show and it's like, oh man, that could have been me, right?You're doing that, but that passes too.
Yeah, especially when you end up with your own iconic role in the future, right?
I didn't even look at it that way, seriously.During that time, Sean, I'm telling you, man, it's wild to watch fame now because everybody kind of believes they can have a famous moment and it should come easy to them.
But back then, if you got a chance to meet Magic Johnson or you got a chance to meet Janet Jackson in person, they were inaccessible.They were all talented. There was an aura, literally.
I remember the time I met Michael Jordan for the first time, and he crept up behind me at the Magic Johnson Midsummer Night's Classic, and it's just like, he literally had this little glow around him, this black Jesus glow around him.
And it's different now, it really is.So you didn't think you could be that, you see what I'm saying?I don't think there is real celebrity now. Oh now, no, celebrity has completely been diluted.It really is.
I'll disagree and say there's still some people who have it.I can see it, there's certain people where they walk in and they have that natural it factor where it's like, okay, you affect the room, you know what I'm saying?
Even when Will Smith used to come in for the NBA All-Star Games, when Will was in the room, it was just different.That's his aura though.Yeah, exactly.But that's traditional celebrity.
This stuff now, like I said, it can feel real temporary and it's like, ah, you ain't got the it factor. but you got the light on you.
Right.Did the cast like you?Because you went from just supposed to be one episode to taking over the whole thing.So did they like you?There had to be some resentment a little bit.Like a kid, nerdy kid coming in here taking the show over.
Like I said, it was weird at first.The kids and I, we worked it out the easiest. Because they had to hear a lot of things that some of their parents are even saying.
And you know, when you're a kid and you're hearing what your parents are saying, you're just going to follow suit with that.But Darius and Kelly and I, we became like brothers and sisters.That's our puberty.
So I just feel like the division really kind of took place more along the lines of the adults were the adults and the kids were the kids.
Do you think that it was weird during that time that you knew, you were very well aware as a kid that you were becoming the star of the show, but you had to do so much stuff to not act like you knew that?
Even in the book, you talk about how the introductions were on the show, and your agent would always be like, we need to rearrange these introductions, because you're the star, the world knows you're the star, and you'd be like, no, let's not bruise my egos.
My mom didn't want to do that.My mom wanted to keep a lot of things status quo when it came to the call sheet.
um just pecking order it just it would have it would have just disrupted the balance of the set to another degree why that we didn't need it it's it's almost kind of like all right you ever notice like Shaq runs out last you know I'm saying when Shaq and Kobe were in their prime but then towards the end Kobe starts running out last
And that's around the time when they broke up, too.It's just like, there's little ego things that just can happen on a set that you have to ask yourself, is that the sword I want to die on?
Is it worth it?You would think that at some point in life, people would understand that y'all are a team.And it doesn't matter who the star of the team is, if the team is winning.Yeah, but the magic word you said is, you would think.Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, after all of these years, we haven't learned that.Even when you use the Shaq and Colby example.
That's, you know, you can't change the way people are gonna think when they're coming from a place of ego.You know, for me, I just, I did a lot to extend our run.Because the reality was- The show was about to get canceled.I know, but- It's a fact.
I get it, I get it.But I'm like, I don't, you can say that.
I don't need to lean in on that, you know, but, you know, whether if it was keeping my hair that cut the same way, I mean, it got to the point where I was sick of my own haircut or staying out of the gym, not working out, you know, that sucked from playing basketball.
And finally, in my senior year of high school, Yeah, they made me change in the final season.It was like, no more jeans.He doesn't wear any jeans.So I was doing things that was- I thought that was good.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
Come on, don't let this man just talk over you.
I mean, he wants to talk about your bulge.I want to be, I want him.
When you said pants, they want me to come in in pants?
I was getting there.I was going to let him finish his statement.You jumped to the bulge.Go ahead, you jumped on down his pants.Go ahead, finish.I want to let him work it out.
But it will come to the package.Right, Julio?That's crazy.Y'all don't get to sit here.
He a wild boy.He a wild boy.He gives it all.He's waiting for that one.
So back to the bulge, good.
They changed the bottom line.They just said no jeans in the final season.That was it.Oh, they didn't tell you why?They said no jeans in the final season.
They said the bulge, right.They nod down.They did tell you that.They did tell you that.They said it was getting a little awkward to see the bulge.That's what the quote said.
They said no jeans in the final season.Do they come to your parents and say that, or do they come directly to you?No, at that point, I mean, come on.I'm on set and I'm getting notes from producers.I need to see that note.
That's a funny ass note to tell somebody.
I feel like you said it in private, you pulled my family to the side and we have a very closed discussion.
Can we talk about your son's bulge?
So things changed on the set because you didn't have a dressing room.Now I'm sure you got the biggest dressing room and all that.So how has that changed?
I mean money that I'm so money change well the thing about money which was cool is that my mom was was so petrified the show would get canceled anyway that she never bought a new car for the first four seasons of the show you know my mom was that I think that's why I'm so passionate about the the protective job that my parents did they did so much to try to keep me on
attached to normal life.They didn't get new cars themselves.My mom demanded that I went to public school.I went to public school during the entire time of that show.But we didn't have cell phones.
We had cell phones, but they were big bricks at that time.But we didn't have smartphones to invade the privacy to that degree and let everybody know what school he goes to, at least on a nationwide level.
So I would pop into school every two weeks to three weeks, and that was something I actually enjoyed doing, kind of like a magic trick.
I could go in and I could take tests, I could raise my hand, I could answer questions from the teacher, and my peers are looking at me like, how do you know this stuff?He's like, I study on set too.
How was school?Did you ever get bullied because people looked at you?Oh yeah, no, there's a whole thing.
You talk about that in the book.There's a whole thing.The first school I was attending at the time, I was the only black kid at the entire school. Which was awkward, too.
It was half Asian, it was half white, and now it's since taken over all Asian when I go back and pass that school.And, you know, that's all the usual stuff.Can I touch your hair?
And, you know, not getting invited to Bob Mitzvahs and all that kind of stuff.And then that all changed as soon as I got on the show.Hey, you want to go to a liquor game with me?And, you know, my mom wants your agent number.
She's thinking about putting me in the business, and now I'm suddenly so popular. So I left that school and then I went to what I like to call the Joe Clark school, the lean on me light.And in that case, I stood out a little too much.
And it also raised my hand too much.And I had a teacher that liked me and I liked Miss Lasseter too.And at schools like that, they don't like those kind of relationships.
So, ran into problems there and then my mom found the school that was the porch that was just warm enough for me, in Three Bears story analogy.And that was South Pasadena High School and they kind of had a sprinkle of everybody.
It was Asian, it was Mexican, it was black, it was wonderful.And I had a great principal named Ben Ramirez, may he rest in peace, who just, you know, kind of went out of his way to make sure that I was always welcome on campus.
They didn't like the fact that your teacher was trying to make sure you were okay?
What do you mean?Like you said at the school, you had a teacher that was in... No, no, no, I'm saying at Hood School, you can't, you know, raising your hand and lying in class and having a great relationship with the teacher.
Oh, the kids didn't like that.Oh, yeah, okay.
I was gonna say, why would the school not like that?Oh, you really a nerd, huh?Yeah, exactly.Bingo.
Was you asking a question like the last two minutes of class, though?
See, again, she hit me with some... She's from Delaware.
You was a two-minute, like, two minutes left... No, no, no, no, you're not gonna play me like that.
I wasn't asking the teacher to collect the homework, okay?I wasn't that... I wasn't reminding her we had tests.
I wasn't reminding her we had tests.But the bottom line is we had a good relationship and she was teaching stuff I'd already learned at the other school.So they were hella behind the other school.So I was just like, yo, this is an easy act.
Oh, so you was in there showing off, slam dunking right here.Come on, I'm in the eighth grade, you know what I'm saying?
It's a horrible grade to do that.
It's awkward, exactly. But did you wish you got that treatment?I remember.Do you remember the first time we met?No, you don't remember.
I don't remember.That's what you have to remind me.Nix Cam.Yeah, Nix Cam.Now, Nix Cam I remember so much about.
Madison Square Garden, Nix Cam.He was in Nix Cam.And I was surprised because... Oh, yeah.I don't remember.We were young, young.But I was surprised because I'm like, at the time, he's Steve Urkel.He's on the biggest show.
I'm like, his parents put him here.So why would he remember you?I'm gonna tell you.Well, no, I don't know.I'm here.I told you. You stay locked and loaded.Anybody can get it.Not for nothing, I was him.I had the glasses, the braces.
We was on the same team.Oh, so you identify as nerd.No, no, no.You weren't him.This is Jaleel White.
I know, but I had glasses.You were actually a nerd.He was not.
I love seeing this dynamic, because no one should ever take this personal ethic up in here.
He said, I was you.I had the glasses and braces.
Let me help you out.Any black man who didn't even look like me, if he wore glasses, he was called Stever.That's true.
They call me metal mouth and a whole bunch of things, but I'm not going to that trouble.But the reason I say that is, during basketball camp, you got into a fight.Did I?Who'd I scrap with?I don't know.Some Spanish dude, right?
And I remember, I was like, damn, is this happen all the time when you come to the hood because people think that you're better than them?So I was wondering if that always happened.
Well, when you hooping, people try you.You know what I'm saying?So it was like, I took basketball seriously.So in between those lines, that's why I'm like, I don't even remember.I was there to play ball.
How many fights did you get into, if you don't remember?
On a basketball court, I didn't have a history of getting into a bunch of fights, but I'm just saying like, you know, on a basketball court, people gonna try you.I mean, do you remember every frackish you got into on a basketball court fight?
I kinda do, yeah.Oh, wow. I lost a lot of them, boy.
If I don't remember him, that means I probably did pretty good in whatever we was dealing with.What did you and all the other Spanish kids do when y'all saw Jahliel beating up a Spanish kid?
I'm black, so I'm not Spanish.
Can we get a therapist in here?If he had to pick a side.Can we get a mediator?If he started saying, he said, either I'm going with Urko or I'm going with my people.
So which way was you, where was you?I was riding with Urko.
But you didn't tell me how I played, though. No, you was good.You were surprisingly good.Because everybody thought the nerve was gonna come out, but you was good.We could tell that you played ball, but I remember you scrapping me.
Point guard, what position you play?
Okay.So, because even in your book you talk about having your dressing room kind of like set up, like an empty locker room.
Yeah, my dressing room was cool.
You really wanted to go to the NBA?
I don't think it was about going to the NBA.Listen, if you grew up in the 90s, the NBA just was different.It landed on your life.It was everything.
So once I started gaining some influence, you could do certain things, and the set decorator for our show transformed the second room in my dressing room into an actual NBA locker room.
So I had all the different lockers, and that's where I would change and get ready for the show. You know, did you get paid?Did you make money, money back then?Yeah, you made very good money back then.
But the numbers back then just, they don't compare to numbers now.Inflation.
It's one of my favorite things I actually have is my first time I ever sat on the court, I kept the ticket stub and I kept them with Magic Shoes when he gave them to me after the game.
And every now and then I'll just, I'll still look at those ticket stubs.Guess how much in 1991, the face value of a Laker game on the court was versus San Antonio Spurs?Price?Maybe close to a thousand.Maybe 700, 800.This man knows basketball.425.Remember back then?
That's crazy, right?For a floor seat?
Yeah, for a floor.So when you put that in perspective, 1991, $425 face value on the ticket to sit on the court.
and you see what inflation is now, it really is like, I remember that teaching me about inflation, was like, whoa, something's happening here, because there's two inflations.
There's the one they talk about to the country, and then the one they talk about that's going on for the people that's making all the money.
I love how you describe throughout the book, you describe yourself as a dedicated people pleaser.You said it was your mom who made you that way.
Can you expand on that a little bit?It can be good and bad to be a people pleaser, because you gotta learn how to set boundaries, but then you gotta also learn how to say yes enough to catch blessings that are coming out of nowhere.
But for me, it's always been about the audience experience that jacked me up.We taped in front of a live studio audience every Friday, and man, I looked forward to that audience like you wouldn't believe. And they just become your toy after a while.
So, you know, my mom would call me after a table reading, you know, every Tuesday.And it's like, what do you think of the script this week?And I was like, eh, it's okay, you know.
And then there would be certain weeks, like the Bruce Lee week, where I'm like, oh no, get your tickets now.
Because sometimes she would have to play games to get a certain number of seats, especially with another, opposite another executive producer's wife who would hog a lot of seats.And I'm like, no, no, no, go ahead and get your tickets for this one.
I'm gonna melt this one down. So it was just always about just, you know, everything celebrity came from a different place than it was about being excellent.It was about being on point.
You know, we would shoot our show and we'd be done with a whole episode in like just over two hours.
And I was so proud of that because everybody else on the lot, especially if they had kids on their show, it would take, you know, shows would take three and four hours and people wouldn't even be able to see the end of the show at times.
But we were now two hours flat and we were done.So I just took pride of that kind of stuff.
What about Jaleel when he's not performing?Are you still dealing with being a people pleaser?
Nah, not as much.When you have a daughter, at least when you have a kid, and you enter the family dynamic, a lot of your values just change.They shift overnight.At least they did for me.
What was the biggest thing that shifted for you overnight?
Oh, man.I got a funny story on that one, though, actually.I remember when single parents don't date. Like single parents, prospect.They don't date, it's different.And I remember my boy was, he told me to come out and meet him at the club.
You know, he had a group.At this point, I'm a single dad.And I hop into my car, and at the time, I drove an Aston Martin Rapide, which is a four-door.And so I pulled up at the end, and he comes walking over with three girls.
And it's like, yo, what are we doing?This is before Uber, all right?This is before Uber.What are we doing?Where are we headed?And then one of the girls just reached for the back door. and the baby seat was in the back.
And the way them girls just jumped back and all this, it just threw off the whole chemistry for the rest of the night.And it was just like, ah, okay, what matters more?As a dad, I knew I'm like, I'm not taking that baby seat out.
It's a pain in the butt putting them damn baby seats in.And any dad who has a baby seat knows that.So it was like, well, that's just the way it's gonna be.But that was a moment where I had to accept where I was just kind of like,
She really comes first in every aspect of my life now.And like it or not, even in times when I wanna be grown and sexy, it's gonna affect it.
So.You know what I wanted to, did the cast members on Family Matters, were they, was it a level of hate and jealousy and envy-ness, envy-ness, envy-ness, envy-ness.Envious.Envious, I'm sorry.
Yeah, it was like, you know what I mean.Y'all said, this your chance to get him.Jump on him now.
Or in hindsight, were you really difficult to work with?
Because Reginald Bell Johnson said that.
Okay, so let me make it easy for you then.How come you never heard that from the kids?Kelly Speaks, Darius is everywhere.Darius is everywhere.How come you never heard that from the kids?
When you leave a show, first of all, the difference between movie stardom and TV stardom is When you're a movie star, you're still a star.Even if you don't have a movie out.When you're a TV star, unless you're on TV, you're not a star.
And that's just the way the business treats you.So I think people go through a lot of personal trauma sometimes after a show has gone off the air.Divorces, investments maybe didn't go right, et cetera, et cetera.
And it causes people to look back on things with kind of a jaded look.And it was like, man, we had fun.We did, even the pictures I picked out for the book.I wanted to show pictures of us chillin'.
You know, I wanted to show me, Reggie, and Darius, you know, chillin' in Paris when we shot two episodes in Paris.We're the only black show to ever shoot in Europe.That was a big deal.
We had this, I'll never forget, we had this giant $12,000 meal at the top of the Eiffel Tower as a cast.Oh, glad you asked. My mom took that bill and handed it to production because she had the clout to do that.But Joe Murray's there.Reggie's there.
Well, we was balling at the top.But again, you balling.So, you know, it's almost kind of like when you hear Scottie Pippen talking about the Bulls now.It's like, Scottie, you can't say nothing nice about the Bulls.Nigga, you was rock stars, dog.
You might didn't kick it at all.
Are you sure that's how you remember it?
Have you recently talked to any cats cuz I know Joe Marie Payton like she had come out and said that you guys had a little Whatever that situation is why you don't want to fight each other Yeah, like can you first of all clarify that story because that's just a while.
No, it's just there's nothing to clarify like a I'm talking about a co-worker of over 30 years ago, and I was a minor.You don't think if there was any validity to that, it wouldn't have come out?
I'm like, how?So 100% nothing happened.
I mean, 1000%.No, like, but I'm not, I'm not getting back and forth.I'm sorry.I'm just doing too good.
I get what you're saying.
Getting back and forth, you know, with a woman who's over 70.And I've been kind of like mentally ingrained to not fight with my elders.Like, all right, if that's the way you saw it, cool.It is what it is.
What she recently said on the stage, I think, I forget where they were at, but the cast was there and you weren't there.And she said that, like, you know, she wished that you were there.And if you were there, she would hug you.
And she kind of, you know, that whole thing.So have y'all talked?
Why does what she have to say hold so much more validity than what my other cast members have to say?I'm just curious.
I think that the age thing does play a factor.70-year-old black woman.Yeah, what you said.
I think that definitely plays a factor as well.But I think she's one of the first people that alleged the bad stuff that I saw come out and be like, man, we should just hug it out.It made me wonder, have y'all talked?What changed?
The people that I talk to regularly is Kelly and Darius.And again, I don't call them Laura and Eddie, so I called Kelly about this book.And we spoke extensively, and Kelly called me two weeks ago.
But it's weird for us, by the way, also, when we go out and eat or anything like that.We like little back rooms and stuff like that.
I would freak out if I saw y'all sitting down.Exactly!
If people saw me and Kelly just at Crustaceans in Beverly Hills, it tends to turn into a big, hey, can I get a selfie fest.
So, you know, we keep it private, but I have a very good relationship with all the cast members who've ever wanted a relationship with me beyond the show.And I don't have anything negative to say about Reggie.
When people ask me, who was your favorite scene partner?I'm like the chemistry I had with Reginald Vell Johnson.I remember the episode where it clicked for us.
It's called Boxcar Blues where we were stuck in a train together with all these cows and Steve was just getting on his nerves and you know Reggie just couldn't look at me without breaking up without you know without breaking character and we just we developed this amazing chemistry but adults are adults and they're going through adult things too and also I'm a kid so you know what I'll tell you one way maybe I could have been annoying I dribble my basketball everywhere.
Everywhere.If I was in school, it's Juliet, we need you on set.Boom, boom, boom, basketball, basketball, basketball.Well, adults get annoyed when a kid is just dribbling and bouncing the ball all over the place.Is that difficult?How old you at?
You talking about 13, 14 years old?Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
I would feel like adults would have a little bit more understanding.
I'm approaching it from a very self-aware standpoint.So I'm like, okay, yeah.And I remember Joyce Webb, one of our script supervisors, be like, oh, here he comes with the basketball.
Okay, you know I'm like, but if that's if that translates 25 years later to being difficult I'll take it.I want to talk about your first kiss.
Let's talk about your first kiss because nowadays everybody would be getting arrested nowadays if that was it.
No they wouldn't because he's a guy.They don't do that to guys.Exactly.
So break down your first kiss.13 years old on set.
He's ahead of me on this one. No, we had a scene, man, where, you know, Steve and Eddie get hot at the dice table and they're rolling the dice and this woman, you know, is supposed to give me a kiss, just plant one on me before my last dice roll.
And during rehearsals all week, she had just pretty much given me a peck.It was just a peck?Yeah, because you just go through the motions.But with that hot live studio audience there, man, she just, yo, she gave me the whole shebang.
And so when I pulled back... And this was your first time kissing?Yeah, I had never kissed a girl before.How did you know what to do?First of all, I wasn't even planning for that.
I know you're supposed to put your lips together, but I didn't know that anything else was really supposed to happen to that.I wasn't seasoned. So she does it, and my whole thinking at the time was do not break character.Do not ruin a good take.
That's what you're just kind of taught as a comedic actor and as a kid.And so when I went to my dressing room, I just kind of involuntarily tears started coming down my face because I was just like, that was weird.
And then my dad corners me and he's like, what's wrong? executive producer comes back like what's wrong you know just like you know like she put her tongue in my mouth.
I'm surprised your mother didn't whoop her ass.
You know it's so funny everybody says that but it was like my father was present and was dealing with the issue so there was no reason to inject and once it was revealed what happened they all started laughing.
Let's start the Men Too movement.Let's go, Jimmy.Let's start the Men Too movement.What is her name?
My dad's like, no, do not find this woman.Do not troll this woman at all.No, I'm serious.Because it's like, that's one of the things that I'm very protective of is, you know,
we have to embrace what double standards were, leave them in the past, but it's okay.Like, I can laugh at it.
I'm saying, like, from the time that it happened to my dad and the executive producer coming in, to me walking back out on stage to do now the next scenes, even the crew, high five, she put it on you, young fella, you hung in there, you did your thing.
And it was like, it was very clear to me, all the signals that I was getting was, that might've been yucky the way it went down, but apparently I'm going to get a lot more of that.So my machismo says, yeah, okay, All right, go with the flow.
What about the trauma you went through?Because it was immediately after that scene, they told you that you can't wear pants anymore?Oh, you know what?I see.I see how you're doing.You'll be here all week.
Tip your waitresses on the way out, ladies and gentlemen.
You know what else?I want to know, was black Hollywood more of a community back then?
Could you tell a story in the book about, you know, connecting with Malcolm Jamal Warner and putting you in the abstinence commercial and, you know, your mom, your mom being a fan of Malcolm.So I don't know if he was the extent.
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The extent to which Black Hollywood was putting each other on, I won't say was more of a community.There are specific people who put a lot of people on.Ice Cube put a lot of people on.
John Singleton put a lot of people on.He identified talent.That's really the dream I kind of have for myself because I picked that up back then of being able to recognize other talent and be like, oh, you got it.You got it.
And that's a pay it forward joy that's separate and apart from actually being the focus.But back then, because there was just a lack of
you know, cell phone communication and social media wasn't what it was, the connections were made more organically.
You know, you wrote a number down, you gave it to somebody, you know, and yeah, so I will say that, I will say it was just, I don't know, it was different.Help me out on this one, because I feel like we connected on this one.
So was it there, was it a real community?
It definitely was, but I'm saying to the extent that I could count on somebody having the power to give me a job, No, no, not that at all.
But to the extent of walking in the room and seeing Tashina Arnold and Tisha Campbell and they like, yeah, it was like, OK, yes, yes, absolutely.You know, and and there was also a sense of like,
Like being a part of an exclusive club, you know what I'm saying?It was like, you didn't walk into a room and see another black TV star and just sit at your table and just be like, oh, he's over there.
You typically were gonna get up and you were gonna, you know, you were gonna greet each other, address each other, and probably exchange information.
Was that because there wasn't a lot of people?Like, it was just like, you guys were the cream of the crop?It wasn't a lot?
It wasn't even like, there was, you know, what we're missing now is everything is niche program. So very few people are always talking about the same thing at the same time.
Like today, all anybody's talking about from a cultural standpoint is Mike Tyson's ass cheeks, because we all saw that at the same time.So, you know, exactly.
So it was like even the Stephon moment where it was just like a lot of black families saw that at the same time when it aired.So they calling each other on each other.Girl, you got to see him in his white suit.
So it's a it's a different connection back there, man.And I'm like, Yeah, it was special.
Do you get tired of the Steve Urkel character?Because I'm sure people have to come up to you all the time and be like, say the line.
Well, in the book you say nothing makes you happier than when somebody recognizes you as Jaleel.
Well, that makes me happy, you know, when that happens.And I kind of got saved by Millennials.You know, the googly has helped me.It really has.
I can hear tone and I try to talk about that in the book so you know if a southern grandmother comes up to me and and she's you know referencing the character that doesn't bother me as much as compared to some guys in a bar who you know they having a sausage fest in the corner and we doing well over here and they want to bring light to that and say okay I see what you're doing now that's those are two completely different things in terms of being tired of the character.
You said we doing well over here. Basically, we got all the ladies over here.Every single lady in the club is with us.
You know what I'm saying?So that part is obvious, what the dichotomy is there.But people come up to me for a variety of different reasons, man.Like your man outside, he was just like, yo, I know about the Ericka stuff, but I'm here for Sonic.
I did the voice of Sonic the Hedgehog for 100 episodes and that lands hugely with a lot of people.I did two episodes of Psyche that people just love those two episodes of Psyche.
So for me, it's a conveyor belt of people acknowledging me for different things and as you get older, like I said, with my focus being on my daughter, I'm a game show host now, I'm just like, look, as long as you pleasant and you chill and you respectful of my family and my environment, I just love being known for a good reason.
Because in this day and age, you could be known for real sucker reason any day like it's wild the sucker reason you could be known for.
You know it's interesting what you said even about uh being a black people all can coming down on one moment because I think about that even with you as a star right like you have to be a certain caliber of star for us to know your real name right you know what I'm saying like like for you for you to play Urkel so well that we know who Jaleel White is that says a lot.
You know what's crazy, though?For a long time, maybe because I was so young, I didn't know that Jaleel White was your real name.I thought that that was another person outside of Stefon.You didn't have internet?
I did, but I was so young, I don't know, I was confused.I thought it was Urkel, then I knew Stefon, then when I started hearing Jaleel White, I'm like, oh, maybe this is another persona that he's taking on.
I'm not old enough to really understand characters and not being really you and all that.And I was like, oh, okay.That was just like a me moment, yeah.I'm just glad the light went on.Thank you.But speaking of, right?
You got that internet fix.
My AOL dial-up.That was back in them days, okay?
That was Netflix this weekend.That was Netflix this weekend.
Speaking of though, I know in the book you talk about the meeting that you had with the exec about the remake or the spinoff.The reboot.The reboot. Your version that you want it to happen, in my opinion, was way better.
I don't know if you want to say it, you want people to read the book, but it was way better than what they had pitched to you.
I guess we have to talk about it.Because I want to know, will we ever get that?And could you do that on your own?
Listen, first of all, you can't do it on your own.That's the thing about television that people have to respect.It's the only art form, I feel, that still has gatekeeping still very much in place.
And you can either be bitter about it or you can fight the good fight and look for the person that's gonna be your champion.That's just, it is what it is.I was never offered a reboot.I always wanna make that very clear.
And even my vision for the show that I have, it's not about me. It's about three-dimensional characters that would actually resonate and translate in 2024 because I worked for the producers who coined the phrase, jump the shark.
He jumped over a shark, right?
Those are my producers, the exact same producers.So you're not going to invite me to jump the shark again.I was offered a blind contract. and half my pay of what I got for the last episode.
And there was no consideration, I mean, there was no consideration given to the adults that actually, you know, have such a large opinion over what terms they would return to.
I'm like, the way they were being discussed was, well, you know, Harriet and Carl will come by and they'll visit the new family every now and then.Like, Hollywood doesn't really, they engage talent when they need talent.
They pay talent when they need talent.And this isn't even a black thing.I don't want this to turn into a black thing.I'll hear guys like Chris Pine or whatever who's, you know, he's like, I don't know what they're going to do next with Star Trek.
Like, I love playing the character, but when they call me, they call me.So I'd love the opportunity to make the show that I envision that was never turned down.It was never pitched.I was just offered a blind contract.
And around that, they were going to develop the reboot.
There were two versions, though, correct me if I'm wrong, right?Because you said one of them you wanted to do, like, what's the Netflix show with the kid?The little kid that we follow is super smart. Yes, Young Sheldon.
There was one version that was kind of going to be like the Young Sheldon from like a different perspective and then there was another version where it would be you and now you're an adult and you are in a relationship but then Myra is still around at that point or something.
Wasn't there two versions?
No, I'll simplify it.You know, I really feel like it could be like a Young Rock to be quite honest.The only difference is, you know, imagine if the Young Rock had started off famous and then gets into reality.
Um, you know, I, you still want to keep it light, you know what I'm saying?But I just, I just, if you do a half hour comedy, where are the stories going to come from?
You know what you, they literally just used to make it up back in the day, you know, and, and, and they would take stories too from old sitcoms and happy days, whatever, and they dust them off and they just, you know, update them a little bit.
You can't do that in 2024.You're going to watch for one episode and you're going to turn that off.
I asked a reporter recently, I said, well, in the traditional reboot that everybody thinks that they want, where Steve and Laura get married and have a kid that's just like Urkel, would you watch that?And he said, yeah, for about four minutes.
I said, okay, thank you for being honest with me.If I do anything, I am an advocate of kids.I see exactly how young performers get derailed. I want to push the agenda.I want to push the legend for a kid to come play a future version of me.
Whatever that turns out to be, that kid's got to be able to get invited to the Golden Globes.That kid's got to be able to get invited to the Emmys.And he can't look back at me and I'm a stain on his career.You know what I'm saying?
It's like, I will point this out, but I won't say names because I don't want to even make them feel bad.But like, the kids on Fuller House, they don't work. Fuller House, the reboot, they don't work.
The adults that put them in that role, they knew they wouldn't work in prestige television, in prestige film, because now casting directors will say, oh, oh, those are the kids from Fuller House.
We want somebody with a fresh face, et cetera, et cetera.And I promise you, as parents and as kids, they didn't go into that project thinking that that was gonna be a blight on their career as soon as the show was over.They didn't go into that.
I wanna make sure anybody that I work with, no, they go in with open eyes.This is what we stand to achieve.And it was so awesome watching Will Smith give it up to Quincy Jones after all these years when Quincy passed.
Because Quincy touched his life in a positive way with The Fresh Prince.He never had to look back on The Fresh Prince like it was this show he needed to get away from. I don't know, that's my take on how I feel about reboots and opportunities.
But let me ask you, with Urkel, I was gonna ask, was that a stain on your career where you had to lose Urkel because people always looked at you when you went and did roles?
Again, I don't look at it as a... I've never stopped working.It's a tough business just to work in.You know, is it easier for some with better reps and different imaging?Yeah.When I think of...
Harry Potter or Al Bundy, I think about those guys and those characters.But they had better reps and different images, and it hasn't slowed them down at all.As far as the TGIF people are concerned, I like where I've landed.
I've never stopped working.Have I always gotten the dream job that I wanted?No.But I talk about it in the book, a couple jobs, one in particular that I wanted that went on to become the worst film that year. It's like, whoa, be careful what you want.
So I just, I don't know.Like I said, when my daughter got here, man, a lot of stuff just crystallized for her.That it was like, yo, let's go out here.Let's be a working dad.
And it's a beautiful thing to come home with a check to take care of your kid.And you're doing it in a way where you don't have to give up your damn dignity.
That's right.It's that simple.You mentioned Will Smith.Will Smith, you said, was the first influential black person to hire you to do something outside of Family Matters.Yeah.Break that down.How did y'all have a relationship?What did you see?
I had seen Will.I would always cross paths with him with NBA stuff.Will would invite me to the office.Everything.He had his offices on 3rd Street.
I saw Will coming a mile away, just like I could identify, you know, just like I talk about Ice Cube, identifying talent and stuff like that.
And Will actually just shared a story, as a matter of fact, that I'm like, oh, I never would have shared that not to violate your privacy.But I remember Charlie Mack having me over to his dressing room when he was shooting 94.
And I was just a curious dude.I love reading scripts.I love just devouring film.And I was in his dressing room and he had a script on the table.
And I was checking it out, and he said, oh, that's just another sci-fi movie, and I'm not gonna do another sci-fi movie after this one.And I went to visit him again after that, and a couple weeks later, and when I got to the set, he wasn't there.
And Charlie was like, I'm sorry, yeah, Will was supposed to be here, but Steven Spielberg sent a helicopter for him.And I'm like, oh, okay, well that's a good reason for him to not be here to receive me.And then months and months later, after that,
Will was coming out with Men in Black and then it clicked.
But he said he wasn't doing another sci-fi movie so I guess that helicopter ride must have changed some opinions.So I just had this really cool relationship with Will.
He was always open doors back then to me and when he called me on the set he called me to be on Fresh Prince of Bel-Air.It just meant a lot to me because he made it his personal business to put me on the show.
I got two more questions.One, when did Family Matters jump the shark?
Oh, man.We probably jumped the shark somewhere around the sixth or seventh season. You don't remember what episode it was?Nah, I don't remember the episode.It happens gradually.
You just start going into Port-A-Potty and coming out as too many characters.Before you know it, I was Elvis.We sending whole families to Paris and come back by standing on a teleportation device.
I think when you moved in with them.I never moved in with them.You never moved in with them?I never moved in with them, Winslows.Oh, I thought your parents... You ain't got to lie to Kick It.I never moved in with them.
I thought your parents went away and... No, I never moved in with them though.I never did.Like I said, it was probably around about the sixth season.Where were you living when your parents moved out of the country?I was always next door neighbor.
That was the thing again back then.They never showed Steve's parents. They always kept Steve's parents this big mystery.What they referenced though, they said your parents moved to Russia or something like that.
Yeah, they would always reference my parents.My parents were treated the same way.Do you remember they were followed?Cheers?Yeah.Remember Norm's wife, Vera.They never showed Vera.
So he they would always talk about his wife at home, and that was the way you treated it back then They never talked.They never showed the gooch on different strokes.
They always talked about the merch So they treated family matters the character my parents the exact same way you couldn't do that in this day and age This day and age wouldn't take that kind of just constant referencing mystique They'd be like no no no bring in the parents and make sense of this
They're going to be all on your Instagram.
I really thought you moved in with the windmill.
That's crazy.I was watching the interview you did and you said you never got invited to none of the Hollywood parties.
No, no.I mean, I went to a lot of nice parties, but none of the stuff that started gaining a lot of steam on social media, like the Roc Nation brunch or obviously, I know you're talking about my man, you know, the Diddy parties or whatever.
Nah, no, organically nah.
Somebody said Reginald O. Johnson used to get invited.Stop it, you gotta calm down.Listen, you gotta calm down.
You just, we're gonna slow it down for a second.You know what I'm saying?Because sometimes you can just be driving too fast and you're not paying attention to the, you know, to the speed limits, to the speed, exactly.We're in a 35 zone right now.
What happened to Judy, man?How Judy just walked upstairs and not came back?I mean, I talked about it in the book.I know, I know, but you don't want to give nothing to the listeners right now?I mean, how do you think I covered it in the book?
Even though, was I fair?Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.I mean, but... But you laughing about.I'm pulling it out of you now.I'm pulling it out of you.I guess because she didn't really have a role, so it's like, you know what I mean?
I get what you're trying to say.
I didn't get to that part in the book, but I'm inferring, I'm reading between the lines, was it that they didn't think she was good to stay on the show?
She didn't have a role, really.That part of the family didn't matter.
So in the book, how do you... Pick it up.Look, I'm only a couple chapters in, but not to give it all away, but just some of it.How do you cover it?When you asked, were you fair?Did someone tell you you weren't fair in covering it?
He wasn't wrong.Thank you.
Fair kind of threw me off.
Okay.All right.You know, there were a multitude of factors that went into her departure from the show that I blame all on her mother.
Um, but there were, but as a performer, they weren't giving her storylines and she wasn't the best at delivering a joke.And so, you know, sometimes they would give her material and it would just fall flat.
And if you fall flat and run through, they're going to rewrite you.And, you know, we're kids back then.So, you know, kids, that's the thing.You can't roast each other nowadays, at least not in public, but trust me, kids are still roasting each other.
That's never going to go away.Right.So, you know, we'd be sitting in the background and you're like, and she blows the layup.
you know and it's just like you know you can only mess up so much and be arrogant about it in a fur coat and a mercedes too before somebody says enough of this and don't forget my producers you know this is a story that precedes my show they famously fired a woman named um
Valerie Harper.We had a show called Valerie.And the show became The Hogan Family.And Tom Miller, may he rest in peace, walked onto the set and said, you are done.
And in one foul swoop, changed the name of the show from Valerie to The Hogan Family and put the focus on Jason Bateman.And people forget those kinds of histories.
So why they didn't just Aunt Viv Judy then?Why they didn't just bring in somebody else?
Because they didn't feel like they needed the character.We didn't have social media.So they were like, She's already only in one scene.We've written her down as much as we possibly can.
It reaches a point where the corporation does the corporation thing.It was like, well, how much are we paying her?Okay, well, just save the money.And you don't have to answer to social media either.
And the thing that I do like where I like to address it with sensitivity
is you know and I talk about that I say look the first miracle we have in our lives is who you born to you know some people born on third base you know and in this situation I really felt like you know Jamie was born to a mother who put herself before her daughter and she had ideas of grandeur that weren't necessarily very realistic and it sucks for Jamie that she has to wear that scarlet letter for the rest of her life
And I hope that Jamie finds peace outside of show business, to be quite honest.Show business can start to make you think that this is the only way to make money, this is the only way to live.
Like if it didn't, I talk about that with Jonathan Brandis, because he passed away and he took his life, and I was very close to him at that particular time, and I saw signs of someone that was really putting too much emphasis on what this business meant to his existence on Earth.
I got one last question, I know you gotta go.Do I have to go?I'm being kicked out.
Now did you jump into cannabis early?Oh man, listen, cannabis is just something I'm really passionate about because it landed on me.That's my Plymouth Rock, it just landed on me.I've been trying to get at the cannabis game for probably about
Shoot eight or nine years now to be quite honest and it's just it's been very Challenging to meet the right people that are placed where they need to be placed that care about quality that care about diversity because they're gonna change these laws and play with this these laws in such a way that the big guys are gonna come in and they're gonna scoop it all up and
And just the way they just played us with Bitcoin.It's going to go down all the same way.So I'm lucky to have met some really cool cats.We're not nationwide, but my guy, the Wolf Group, we're going to have some fun.
You got a dispensary or a Scran?
No, they named the streets.Back in 2003, they named a strain after my old character.
I don't even know if it was after my old character, or maybe somebody was just inspired, maybe they were watching an episode of Family Matters, so they called the strain Purple Urkel.I've been name-checked everywhere.
Rap songs, TV shows, Purple Urkel's been name-checked everywhere, and people think that I made money off of it.So my brand name is It's Purple.
I always like to let people know, and that actually came from a joke, where it was like, when people see me, they think they're being discreet sometimes, where they go, oh, it's Urkel.
And I always just wanted to have something to say back, like, no, it's Purple. So that's what it's Purple, the brand, even stands for.But we are the house of Purple Urkel.We make the best damn Purple Urkel that anybody makes out there.
Did you bring something with you?What'd I tell you?
Bring the drugs next time.Bring the drugs.What'd I tell you?
I left it at the damn hotel, but I'm telling you, I will find you, dawg.I'm here for the week.
I don't have time for one more?Yeah, jump in here.Myra, Michelle Thomas.
Yes.Be careful now, that's my girl.
I know.I was going to say, every time you talk about her, it's very emotional for you.And like, I feel that that's your girl, right?Or was.
I want to know, off-camera, when you guys developed your relationship that we then saw on camera, because it was so believable.What was that off-camera relationship like, and like building that for the characters on camera?
Like, how did you guys, because you were so young.
Dad, no, just, you know, Michelle started off playing Malcolm Jamal Warner's girlfriend on the Cosby show.And so she was always older than me.
So even though she was so small and bubbly and, you know, big, but she was, I looked at her like a little sister, like a big sister.And we just had this amazing chemistry.My mama loved her too.So that always, that made things easy.
And she just made it her business to always want to hook me up with somebody.And she introduced me to Martha's Vineyard and, you know, spending summers there.And we just had an amazing chemistry.She was just down.Like, everybody knew Michelle.
Everybody knew Michelle in the music business.Everywhere we went, people loved Michelle.And unfortunately, she passed away to stomach cancer. And that was just a very emotional time because we just knew what she was going through as an actress.
And that's why I always like to remind people too, you know, they always try to apply this typecasting narrative to me.I said, man, listen, this is a tough business.
If you really want me to make you a list of people who are, you know, trying to get to their next opportunity, I can.And you'll see it doesn't have as much to do with typecasting as you think.
So during the time when she went out, I just, I wish that there had been some better opportunities for her.You know what I'm saying?Like, Carl Weathers just passed away, and Mandalorian was a nice thing for him to have on the way out.
We want people to buy the book Growing Up Urkel, but it is interesting to see how much of the love y'all created off-camera.Yeah, it was real love, man.
You know, I get it.Yes, it was bumpy in the beginning, especially with the adults and the parents of some of the kids, but that's my puberty.You know, Darius is out here wildin' at times.
You know, he and I, we slide each other's DMs, but that's my brother.I mean, we've all had, you know, brothers or whatever, frat brothers or college friends that, you know, buggin' out or whatnot, but you don't abandon that cat.
You still takin' his collar.Y'all just laugh it off.And that's what my relationship is with Kelly and Darius.It's very brotherly and sisterly. You know, I'll always defend our entire cast, actually, for the work that we did.That's what it is.
Well, Jaleel White, ladies and gentlemen, growing up hardcore, it's out right now.Make sure you pick it up, and thank you for joining us.It's been a long time.You were supposed to come here, like, years ago.
I would run into y'all at airports and stuff.I'd call you on the plane, yeah.
I always give credit to a brother, though, who's famous, and he'll see me at the airport.He'll be like, okay, how you doing?And he was cool.
Is the famous person in this situation between you and him?
Well, you know, I've had other people.It'd be Howard Stern.I remember Howard Stern was sitting in coach behind me, flying to New York.I was flying to New York to do his show.And then I got up and I actually took him some dessert on the flight.
He's like, oh, I can't believe you came back here.And then when I did the show, he was like, OK, I knew you were a cool dude because you came back to say what's up to me. and coach.And I was like, yeah man, I'm flying.Why was Howard in coach?
He might have just needed to get to New York.Exactly.And that's so that'll happen to famous folks too.
It's like, you know, sometimes you get stuck.I figured Howard makes so much money.Oh yeah, you gotta get home.
Nah, nah, this is before, this is like before, this is before private parts.
Sometimes you just gotta get home.Yeah.
Oh, this is before private parts.
Yeah.Oh, okay, okay, okay.
So he had loot, but he didn't have the bag, you know.
Like you better get your ass back to work.
That's right.He helicopter, I think, from building to building now.Well, ladies and gentlemen, it's Jahliel White.It's the Breakfast Cloud now.Good morning.
Wake that ass up in the morning.
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