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I always knew I wanted to be successful.I would always say, I want to be successful.I don't know how I want to be successful.I would just work really hard.So if you work on something every day, it's actually proven everything is a snowball effect.
If you do something every day, it's going to have an effect.I've always said that success is a compound effect.And we hit 100,000 in the first three months.
People expect me to really have my shit together.The reason I am successful is because I don't.
Today we are here with the amazing Amy Smell, the creative director and founder of Slow Fashion Brand on Muse.It's so amazing to have you here today.
Thank you.This doesn't really feel real, like you're real.Like I'm a real person.Can we just talk about you for two hours?
No, no, no, let's not do that.We're gonna talk about you.I feel like I really wanted to have like another boss babe, like, I don't like that term actually.
Just- No, I know what you mean.
Yeah, like boss babe is a bit cringy now.
Yeah, no, I know exactly what you mean.
But to be fair, you're doing it.You've launched a brand, you've built a business in the digital age and it's not hard to do.And I feel like for a lot of the women who watch me, they love the idea of like founder, company, brand, blah, blah, blah.
but they also love the idea of like soft life as well.So I don't know how they kind of want to match that up.So I wanted to hear like your story.Let's just get through your journey of kind of becoming a founder.
And then also like, how do you balance it?Because I feel like there's something very different about being a woman as well and running a business and maybe having a partner and like managing just life in general.So we'll get into it.
So I'd love to take it back, like a bit about your history and like where you've come from and like kind of your journey as well.
Okay, so right from the beginning of like career or just life?
Give me life.Life's a great way to like set the scene of someone who may end up doing something entrepreneurial.
So I would say that I always think back obviously like the way my you know, my upbringing is very influential to you know the person you become and I feel very lucky like I had the most normal upbringing and Not loads of money, but a hell of a lot of love and that has
That has lended the best experience being a founder because it really shaped, it just really shaped the person I am and I've had, and it shaped the people I've let into my life and kept around.
So yeah, a lot of love, very normal growing up, but there was always just something in me.Like I was always, I was never interested in watching TV or anything.
I would, in my spare time, I would just, as my brother and sister would say, I was a very strange child.I would just sit there with myself.
Like, and just think, all the time I'm thinking and I still do this, like I sit there and I WhatsApp myself in my free time.I don't, I say to myself all the time, what am I actually interested in outside of work?
Like even when times aren't as busy, like what is my thing?And I just love, exploring and being creative and that's always been me.So I always knew I wanted to be successful.I would always say I wanna be successful.
I don't know how I wanna be successful.So I would just work really hard.All throughout school, I'd worked so hard.I used to go to bed at night.My brother and sister used to think I was the craziest person.
I used to go to bed at night with mind maps before an exam all on my room and fall asleep just looking at everything.
And nobody had to pressurize you to do that.
That was something that was innate to you.I just, I so wanted to do well, like even in school I would stay till like 7pm and my sister would go to another school and she used to say, in my school it's not cool to do well or be smart.And I'd go,
Well, that's what I think is cool.And I just feel like I was a bit of a nerd growing up, but I loved it.I loved learning.I've always loved learning.And I think that's truly taken me through.
So yeah, I was trying to figure out, what do I want to do in life?What do I want to do in life?
basically have a close family friend who's a very successful fashion buyer and I when I learned about fashion buying I just thought it was the most interesting job because you don't hear a lot about it you you hear about fashion designers and you hear about other roles in fashion but buying I was like what is this and I learned more about it
And immediately I just wanted to know more and I was like, right, okay, that's it.I'm going to be a successful fashion buyer, going to be a successful fashion buyer, went to uni, studied it, went straight into ASOS as a buyer.
And I had this plan that I was, you know, when I wanted to reach my success, And I got to ASOS and I loved it.And I learned so much, but I was meeting people that had been there for a while.
They wasn't as, you know, I wanted to be in New York in three years time and traveling the world and doing fashion weeks and stuff.And I just, it hit me quite quickly that that wasn't gonna happen for me.And it's really weird because I feel like,
It felt very competitive at ASOS and I feel like I'm in a competitive thing now.Like I don't feel like I'm a competitive person.I didn't like that about ASOS, but I didn't really want to compete with myself.
Like I don't want to compete with other girls that are all going for like a, you know, you know, not even that great of a pay rise.And all of a sudden, I just felt like, this is not what I expected.But the experience was so valuable.
So I was like, right, okay, I'm learning about fashion buying, I'm learning about fashion buying, it's great, it's great.And I felt like I had such an interest in design, I would sketch all the time.
I had such an interest in marketing, loved social media.I was that age where Instagram was just coming up. I just loved that.And then when I got to ASOS and started learning about buying, I would say to my mum, I think I know it all now.
I know buying.I know all this about how you get the stock, how much it is, how to get it into the UK.I know how to do things on social media.And I have some designs.Do you want to invest?
I would ring her because I know I can wear I as a like 19 year old girl like I feel that felt like I could wear my mom down yeah why not love it so I'd ring her I remember there was this walk from my station to another tube station I would ring her every down that walk and be like I really don't want to do this I know I'm ready I'm ready and she would say no and she would say no and
and I had to save up my own money.But it ended up me being there for like two years.And I don't know if I'd be where I am today if I didn't get that experience.
Yeah.Can I, I want to explore that a little bit more because what you're saying sounds a lot like my experience working in consulting because I worked at Deloitte and I hated that job.
It was so hard, but everything I learned there, I feel like that's what made me successful like today.
a social point of view, just being able to converse with people.I remember one of my first days at ASOS, I couldn't work the printer and my buyer was like, go ask her over there.And I was like.
How do I just go up to someone and ask them?
And I was like, hi, sorry, I've never met you before.My buyers asked me to come out and it's so long winded.And yeah, I learned a lot of people skills at ASOS.
What's interesting as well is that you had network because you knew someone who was a buyer already.And that kind of inspired your journey.
Was there any other thoughts about what you wanted to do besides like seeing someone that you knew who was great at
I think I just found it like really interesting because what you know fashion design is designing clothes and marketing is social media and paid marketing and I was just so interested with what he's buying, it's stock levels, it's margins, it's imports, I just found it so like
frilling to be totally honest.Like it was something I'd never heard of before and I just wanted to know more.
Love it.So you worked for two years.So were you 19 when you started?
So no, I'd finished uni.I went to uni first.So I think I started at ASOS when I was maybe like 21.
And then by the time I was like 23, I'd started old muse.Wow.
It's quite early.So you are a founder who was really young in your early 20s with lots of confidence based on a couple of years of work.
The thing is, that's one thing I was never, I still am very like, even on the way here, like so nervous. I'm not confident, but I'm really confident in what I create.
And Odd Muse was something that was planned on an iPad for two years commuting into London.And by the time I got to launching, I was just like, I spent two years with this idea.It's brilliant.I'm not being full of myself.
I've got, you know, the basics of business is presenting a product with a solution.I've ticked that.The product's good.The marketing, you know, is there and the message is there.I felt really confident in it.
Yeah, that's such an interesting point. there's something this thing called like growth mindset and fixed mindset.And like, it's a determinator of like, what do they call it?Or success.
So it sounds like you're like, if I put in the work and I keep trying and I trust what I do, I'll be successful.
That's always what I've said.I've always said that success is a compound effect.So like, if you go to the gym every day, you're gonna receive results.So if you work on something every day, like it's actually proven everything is a snowball effect.
Like if you do something every day, it's gonna have an effect. So that's another mindset I got into.Like if I just do this every day, like, and you know, I truly believe that you only fail when you give up.So I'm just gonna have to keep going.
And I still, if the brand wasn't where it was today, I'd still be trying 100%.I'd still be trying.
I love that.Okay, so. Yes, you've got the brand, it's launched, two years.Just what was that pivotal moment?Because you must've been like, okay, I'm leaving ASOS now.Did you have a cushion?Did you have a plan?
Well, you kind of said you had a plan, but what was that jump to the brand?
So to be totally honest, I wasn't earning a lot of money at ASOS, but I also understood how much I needed for the brand.Also understood that I wasn't going to get any handouts from my mom and dad or anyone.So I basically started to do like
marketing for local companies.I really wasn't trying to grow a business.I was like, there was a solar panel company I used to do brochures for.There was a restaurant I used to do menus for.I just kept it very small and local.
And I was earning a good amount of money.And that's what truly saved the money for odd news.And then by the time I got to launch, you know, I was like, Like these menus and stuff I'm making are paying more than ASOS is and it's less time.
It just all of a sudden made sense to just quit ASOS, which was crazy.Like my mom, it was like this August and my mom was like, please just see it out till Christmas.And I was like, no mom, like I really can do this.
No, okay, so what you just said, you literally side hustled.You side hustled to your success.Your side hustle was making more than your salary job at ASOS and you use that side hustle income to build your business.
Yeah, no, for real, because I think a lot of people think someone's gonna give me money, oh, I need to do this, or they can't start anything because they get all in their head about what's possible, what's not possible.
But basically you just labored, you just worked, you did stuff on the side and used the skills that you had to generate the revenue you needed to start.
Yeah and I think if anyone who wants to get into a brand or start their own business and they do want that investment, I think you do need to have a side hustle because one thing it does teach you as well is juggling and starting a business at the beginning, you're juggling, you're juggling more than just two jobs.
So I thought you know, having to, you know, nine to five be online for ASOS, but then in the evenings be making menus, that was a really good experience.Cause I have no issue with like 12 hour days now.
I mean, people hate that though.A lot of people hate the ideas of like working hard, like it stresses.
There is, I feel like there's like this, there's like two sides to it on social media.Like I follow some people who sort of basically say like, you don't have to work hard and you know, manifest it. Stuff like that.
And I do believe in like, you have to believe in yourself and stuff like that.But the reality is you actually have to like work really hard to the bone.
Nothing beats putting in hours.
And that's something I sort of like struggle with at the moment because my success has been through working myself to the bone.So now I struggle with like, what is the point where I actually
Is there a figure in mind?Is there a sale of the company or something like that?And where do you find purpose in life?
Yeah, that's the whole thing for me at the moment because I feel like my, I never knew it would go like half this far.So now I struggle with like, what is not even an end point, but what is like, what are the points?
Like, I'm just like, wherever this wants to go, like I'm running with it and I'm trying everything. but we've hit three years now and I'm a little bit like, okay, I started the brand when I was 23, I'm 26 now.
26, big company, you're like, what do I do?
Yeah, and I'm like, but in the same breath, I don't wanna get to 30 and be like, wow, my 20s just went because I was working all the time.And I've got some younger girls on my team and one of them said to me,
do you feel like you just wish your life away?And just because like, you know, we just did fashion week and it was like so much craziness and nerves and like to a point where I just wanted it to be over.
And like, I was like, yeah, that is, I'm wishing my life away.So I struggle, I struggle with that a little bit.And like, you know. There's odd news and there's Amy.I struggle with that.
Yeah.And you're still so young.Do you know what I've noticed these days?I don't know whether it's social media or just now that I'm older.I look at some of the young people like 19, 20, 21.I'm like, you guys are so serious.
Like you guys are working and hustling.Like when I was your age, I was drunk. That's what I was doing.I had ambitions and I wanted to, and you'll be successful.
I think as soon as I finished uni, as soon as I hit 21, I was like, right, okay, what do I wanna do in life?Who do I want in my life?That was like it for me.
It's amazing to be intentional, but I think there's always a balance between play as well and exploration and like novelty is really important.Absolutely.Cause life is very long and you don't wanna be like, I'm 40 and I'm jaded and tired.
Okay, and what was the figure that you had to start your brand if you don't mind sharing
Well, I remember when the stock was coming, I was like, right, okay, I'm gonna get an account and it's quite serious.So I said to the account, he said, well, how much money do you think you're gonna make?
And I said, well, all my stock full price sold is 30,000 pounds.So let's put for the year predicted 30,000 pounds.And we hit 100,000 in the first three months.Yeah.
And how much did you have to invest for that 100,000?
Well, this is where it gets a little bit interesting.So originally I put like 12,000 pounds into the brand and I got around 30,000 pounds worth of stock.
And then we had a bit of a crazy moment and the blazer went viral and there was thousands of people all over the world that wanted it.And I did not have the cash to get all this stock.So I put the blazers on pre-order.
And I used that revenue to pay for like 700 places it was.And that truly set me up.And that's why I think I've been able to remain 100% independent with no investment.
And that's a strategy that I've continued throughout my business because if anyone can get their customer used to just
having your product being so in demand that people want to pay for it four weeks before it's made is, you know, the best marketing strategy and the best business model, like Fear of God, Essentials, that whole brand is built off that business model.
So that's something like I'm really sacred to keeping.And it's something that, like last year, for example, we released a dress that We ended up selling about 4,000 units in it.I never wrote 4,000 units on that order, but people wanted it.
And when you can put your stuff on pre-order, essentially what you can sell is uncapped.But yeah, I always explain that model with a pinch of salt, because I would never launch something assuming that people just want to pay four weeks.
It always sells out first, and then we say it's on pre-order. So yeah, that business model really took me.I get it.
So one of the things I know is really hard when it comes to like starting and building something is like getting the help that you need.Like what was your networking or team when it came to starting?
Just me.So I started with just me and it was just me for like six months.I saw myself through the a hundred thousand in sales.Like I was doing that all on my own.You know, people were friends, family were coming down to pack the orders with me.
But sorry, I forgot the question.What did your team look like or what hands did you need?So it was just me and I was relying on like friends and family to sort of like help me out. And that was like a really intense time.
Like I remember it getting really, really bad before I finally said, right, I'm gonna hire someone.And then the team's just sort of done like a domino effect since then.
Listening to you, I can tell you're a bootstrapper.You seem to be someone who's like, I'm just gonna grind.I'm just gonna keep working and I'm gonna put everything aside while I focus and laser into what I wanna do.
How did you balance a personal life while trying to build something?
I don't think I did have that balance and I think a lot of my success has been from that imbalance.
I think I'm finally reaching a point where I should prioritize that balance and it won't affect my business but you know I feel like my 20s I'm just gonna work really really hard and for the last three years I've been absolutely
fine with it and it's just like when it gets to a point where you know you've got your you know you can't sleep and it affects you sort of like mentally but personally like i do i love what i do and this is what i wanted and you know i i'm so grateful sometimes i feel like i i couldn't dare moan um again that's something i struggle with but in terms of balancing a personal life that hasn't really been part of my story yet yeah
And again, I feel like when you want to build, when people want to build something, there's going to be that season of just like, nothing else matters besides what I'm trying to create and build.
You weren't dating or... I've had the same boyfriend since before I started.So that helps.
Do you know how important... Because boys can really ruin your life.
And actually we had a relationship coach on and he was saying that a lot of the most successful people, like their biggest piece of advice is about choosing which partner you have and if they're gonna support you when you build something.
And even I think for me, because I had a partner since I was like 19, I've just been able to like- I met my boyfriend when I was 19.It's the best way.Like you don't have to be distracted by all that boy drama.
Yeah, it's just, I even, even just with friends, if you want something in life, you can't waste time on people who aren't gonna be that person for you and look out for you.
So yeah, I think the steady relationship I've been in for the last seven years is a real credit to my success.I mean, my boyfriend is so sort of like, he really taught me to not care what people think.And I credit a lot of that,
like switch to him where I was like, I'm just gonna go for it.And I don't care what anyone will say.So yeah, that helps.
People help.So when it's come to like your success, like your brand is a million pound brand and you didn't plan for this, what has been the challenges of kind of like accepting that, wow, I'm successful and I'm doing what I need to do.
Have you come to terms with that?
Not totally because I think it just comes like I just work myself to the bone.
As a founder there's so much mental labor that goes on like besides you know what you actually are physically doing there's so much mental labor that goes into anything you do whether it's investments, whether it's people, whether it's
anything so I do and I do and I don't I feel like it's just that I'm living so fast at the moment and lately I've just been on this thing like how do I actually want to enjoy my success because you know I've had a moment last year where I've bought a few nice handbags and that's not it and I had I got my dad a car last year that was it
Helping people is it for me.Helping my family and sharing my success is it for me.So that's what I'm sort of like continuing to do because that's just, it's just the most like nothing beats being able to share your success I don't think.
I think that sometimes people think that when they're gonna be successful and they're gonna hit those six, seven zeros, eight zeros, that they're gonna just buy stuff for theirself and it's gonna make them feel happy.
It's so weird because I think about this all the time.
Like when I was younger, I put so much pressure on being successful and having money and like, as a fashion girl, like having Chanel bags and like, oh my God, like, oh my God, she's got these Chanel bags.
And then when you sort of get there, it's like, and I've spoken to someone about this before, like sometimes when you get there, it's not what you thought it would be. I feel like that.And yeah, that's where I'm at the moment.
Like it's just, it's so amazing what I'm doing and I feel like I would enjoy it more if I just found what it is that I'm really gonna enjoy my success through.
And I think it is just like sharing my success with my family at this current rate and yeah.
And also realizing there isn't a specific target.This is what I've learned about life.It's actually about the journey more than this figure because you can reach that figure and then you're like, oh, is that it?
You can buy the Hermes bag and you're like, oh, is that it?You can buy the big house and you're like, oh, is that it? Next up, Hermes, hey.
Yeah, but still like you get there and it's just, it's just, it's just not it.
And I feel like I said earlier, like I credit a lot of my success to the people in my life and they, I don't think I'd have like be so, I don't think I'd be successful if I wasn't so complete with the people around me.So for me, success is that.
What do you wish you had known before you actually started your brand?
I wish I had known, I wish I had known the mental labor versus the expectation, which I feel like we're lightly touching on.So, you know, you get to a certain level and people expect you to be super happy and sometimes you're not.
Also, people expect me to really have my shit together and the reason I am successful is because I don't. Like, I don't know where it, like, I went to get my nails done yesterday, I left my keys in the salon and I had to walk.
Like, I don't know where anything is.I, you know, at one point I had a work phone and a personal phone.I don't anymore.Cause how the hell could I lose two phones in one day?Like.
You sound exactly like me.And I feel bad for the people around me because I am, scatterbrained, but laser focused on what I want to do.I can't think about anything else besides that.
Sometimes I feel like when you're, when people ask you something and you don't, like simple questions or you've lost something, it makes you feel a little bit like smaller or a bit stupid, but it's like, no, because I'm actually flat out all the time doing other things.
Like I am frazzled.And I think when you reach a certain point of success, people feel like you should be super organized and all these things.And you're just not. So I struggle with that and yeah, I struggle with like, you know, being...
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you know, should I not be feeling like so happy every day?Should I not be jumping out of bed every day?Because the actual reality is like, I am exhausted.And, you know, a few weeks ago, I've been sort of like experienced like chronic stress.
Yeah, it's just like not being cracked up with what is cracked up to be.And sometimes feeling the weight of people's expectations.
That's something you should probably take some time to have a little think about, get the therapy, read the books and actually take time for yourself to allow you to be the best version of yourself.
Because when you're 25, 26, you don't wanna be burnt out.You don't wanna go through those phases where you're like, I just can't anymore.
So you have to work out.That's what I'm on the journey for at the moment, because I'm aware that I can't carry on like how I am.
And that's point one.That's point one.Oh my gosh, you need to see my life coach.I might introduce you to Jacqueline.She's so amazing.So like literally just getting your headspace together is gonna be really important.
I feel like when I first started the brand, it was so sort of like, that's all I want and that's all I want.And then now I'm here, it's like, just chill out a little bit.And you know, I mean, I can chill out by a pool.
And one thing I'm trying to do is like get back to what I actually loved about this.And this was my, like when I said I used to sit there with my thoughts and I'd enjoy that.I wanna sit there for a whole day with my iPad and just sketch.
That's what I would do in the evenings when I was younger.That was my hobby.
exactly just like being on emails and being asked questions all the time and just you know I don't ever want to feel like I hate my job because I love fashion and I love being creative and that has what's taken odd news to the level it is now because it's so it is just everything is sort of just
I just feel like I am Audemars and I truly feel like no one could do it like me because I'm so in tune with this brand, but I need to be more in tune with myself.
And that's very valid.And maybe what you need, again, this is me just dishing advice is like dedicated unbroken time.And then the people in your company and you have your bank, you're back saying, no,
this is her Friday or this is her Tuesday, no disturbed.You just have to be silly for one day a week.Have a drink, I don't know, have a smoke or whatever, I don't really do.
And literally tune out so you can actually get those juices flowing and have a feeling.But you have to organize your life in a way that's set up to allow you to function the best.
Yeah, I think for me, it's just having those boundaries.But I'll get there. The thing is with me, anything I want to put my mind to, I will do because I don't give up.So I just need to put my mind to it.
That'll be my next, maybe that's the next point.
I feel like work and play, like identifying that balance for you in your life, for everyone is so important because again, there's hustle culture is a thing. And we both agree that you have to work hard to be able to achieve anything.
But again, if life's just work, then it's boring.
I think it's hard as well.And you might feel this when some of what you do is mixed and supposed to be fun.So events and stuff like that.
And it's like, oh, you know, it doesn't feel like work, but it is like everyone at the, I just did a show at London Fashion Week and there was a bit of an event after and everyone was like, Oh my God, like, are you just so happy?
And I was like, I'm so exhausted.Like I've spent the whole day, like my body's been vibrating this whole day because I was so nervous.So yeah, I think sometimes I play with the idea of, oh, this is supposed to be fun.You know, this is work.But no.
It's just all so subjective, isn't it?Exactly.Have you found any particular challenges as like a woman building a business?Have you come up against maybe not being respected, having issues with suppliers because you were a young woman starting out?
No, because I feel like I've avoided it.And I feel like this is coming up for me.Like I purposely kept the team small.I purposely kept the team young.I'm the oldest person in my team.And that can't go on forever.
There is gonna be a point where, maybe I do need a managing director that's been doing this for 30 years.And I might, I probably won't even know a quarter of what they know.
And I feel like I've avoided it for a long time because there is, you know, it happens all the time and I wanna be taken seriously and I, you know, I can show you what I've done, but yeah, I think that's coming up for me 100%.
You seem pretty self-aware of what you need and like you're the kind of person that identifies it and then will decide to execute it when you're ready.
Yeah, I think just sort of like being in a woman in business is, it's good and bad.Like I feel like it's probably celebrated a bit more now with the rise of social media and there's so many women out there killing it.
Like it's a really, I feel like it's quite a good time but it still has some work to go, definitely.But slowly gone are the days where it's sort of like men that are the most successful. It is what it is, I'm here for it.
I'm part of the, I'm joining the crew.
Love that.Talking about social media, how has that kind of, one, been powerful in growing your brand and two, how do you use it to be successful?
So social media, my biggest tip for anyone wanting to launch a brand or business is listen to what they say.If Instagram wants you to start posting videos, you start posting videos.If TikTok want you to do TikTok, do TikTok.And I feel like
when I first started Odd Muse, I was doing so well.I would go to the studio once a month, I would get all my pictures and that would see me through and I'd get all these likes and I'd do really well.
And then all of a sudden it was like content become constant.Like it would expire almost immediately and I would need to be somewhere else and it become constant.
And I had this stagnant period where I just wasn't really getting anywhere with Instagram anymore.And I was getting like 30 likes instead of like 5,000. that would affect website sessions and sales.
So I had to switch my strategy to do what they wanted to.And I moved over, not moved over, but I started doing TikTok as well.And I just got so carefree with social media.I think that's been the biggest strategy for Odd Muse.
Yes, we're a luxury brand and our clothes are a bit more expensive,
we're also fun like the office is fun that there's such a culture and you know it is just this young girl having a whale of a time most of the time like so i show that a lot on tiktok and i feel like that's really growing the brand i think showing personality rather than trying to sell a product it has been
so worth it for me and it genuinely like that is how I want to promote my brand.I don't want anyone to feel like they have to buy my clothes but if you want to go on TikTok and have a laugh like we're there.So I feel like that's lent a strategy.
How many people are in your team? Oh, I think I have about 12 or 13 now.So quite a lot of people.
How did you find like building that and finding the right people that fit the culture for you?
So I found a lot of people through, I've got one girl that I worked with at ASOS.I've got some people that might from my university that were recommended to me.There are a few years below me.I found some people on LinkedIn.
So it's all a little bit everywhere.Haven't struggled too much with people.I struggle with leadership. Never set out to be a leader.I feel like leaders have high expectations and sometimes I just don't want to be contacted and I don't have that
you know, leaders have to be available.Do you think so?Yeah, I mean, I don't know.
I don't know.That's a question you have to ask yourself.Ideally, you're gonna hire people who are competent enough to like- Yeah, no, of course.Self-manage, yeah.
But I think for me, where I come up with all these crazy ideas and a lot of stuff is imminent, it's my idea and I wanted to do it.So I do need to be available. I don't think it's so much the people I have, it's the way I sort of lead.
So yeah, leadership is something I definitely struggle with.And yeah, didn't set out to be a leader at all.
I get it.And so is that something you want to work on specifically and have you looked at any kind of training for it?
Yeah, that is something I wanna, do you know what it is?I just wanna be a confident leader.I think that's what it is.I know, you know, I know I provide a great workspace.I know I'm lovely to my team.
And I know I sort of like do all the things I'm supposed to do, but I just wanna feel more confident in like having my boundaries and like being their leader and stuff like that.
But even just listening to you, you know what you want, you know you're gonna do it, so it's gonna happen.
I know what needs to happen, it's just sort of like, oh, here we are.
Yeah, it's that self-awareness piece again.And actually, I was gonna ask you, which leadership skills were the most difficult to develop?
I think I struggled with delegating a lot.
Even when I would think, write down what I would need doing to delegate to someone, I'd hire someone and create a whole new thing for them and still be doing, you know, and then I'd delegate and then I'd create a whole new 12 hour day with all my new ideas.
It's more like creating work for myself and just, you know, there's a pleasure in delegating, enjoy it.If you have people that you can pass stuff down to, to relieve some stress, sit down for a minute, but that's what I struggle with.
Do you know what I find?You're giving me what I would like to quote.I have a title for this, which is imperfect leadership or imperfect founder, but building a perfect business.
Because I think a lot of the time, everybody feels like you have to have it all together.From the outside, it looks like, oh my God, you're a brown Fander.Like you've made millions of pounds and that you've got it together.
And what you're expressing is like, I know I'm a little chaotic.I know I'm not great at delegating.I know I'm working a lot, but you're still successful.
And I think there's an element of people need to see that it isn't always roses behind the scenes.And just being aware, because I think I have these conversations a lot and it's like, yeah, got it together, just about whatever.
And hearing you, it's like. Oh my God, you sound like me, but like, I wouldn't want to say it.Every time it's a white.
It works out.Like I, you know, we always pull it out the bag and sometimes I think you've just got to believe in a little bit of magic.
I believe in that, I believe in that, I believe in a little serendipity and like, something will happen, something will work out.
Yeah, there's something in the air, you know, I've done my bit.Yeah, yeah, yeah.There's something that's gonna, yeah.
Yeah, exactly.You've got to believe in a little bit of magic.So what's a top five piece of advice that you would give to someone who's thinking about starting a brand or a company or wants to build something?
My main thing would be going back to making sure you have the right people around you in and out of business.Your team in your business and your team out of your business is just as important.
so I would say to sort of anyone who's like yes I could imagine there's a lot of Gen Z's coming up right now that want to start business that you can see like people doing really well on tik-tok there's there's a what you said earlier there's a crazy amount of young people doing really well these days and I could get how coming up maybe not having a platform you might struggle and just think well what can I do and I think just
getting to that age where not letting everyone make it into your life is so important and recognizing who wants to see you win.To recognize them people, you have to be one of them people.
I always say that being a nice person is the best investment you can make because you will receive that energy and you will receive that, you will have nice people in your life. So that is a big tip for me.
Never ever forget who you are in all of this.Like I have a friend who's my photographer and she'll laugh at me quoting this, but she really sort of changed my outlook on how I look at myself.
And she said to me, one thing I really like about you is no matter how stressed you are, you're always a really nice person.And that's what I'm trying to work on. And for a long time, I felt like maybe I could be too nice.
But I've realized recently that a little bit of magic and being a nice personable person is a massive credit to my success.So don't ever, in the pressure of trying to get to where you wanna be, don't ever lose just being a nice person.
And it sounds so simple, but that's probably the biggest tip for me.
yeah i love that was there five did you want five so actually maybe what i asked is like some practical things to like starting a brand yeah like to consider from like incorporation finding stock and yeah those kind of things yeah because that's quite layered and that's the one thing that i really struggled with
And I remember when I first started, podcasts weren't really a thing.And I feel like I love how accessible resources are now.But back when I was starting, I remember I went to one live podcast that Connor Walker was doing.
And it was- She's been on my podcast as well.
She's amazing.And it was just like 30 tickets going out.And I remember it was like the whole other side of London.And I had got a train all the way there on my own.And I sat there and I was just staring at her like,
you are amazing, but I have been trying for years to just try and listen to anything you can say.Like she's very, and I respect her privacy.She doesn't say a lot, but she was like, I just wanted to just know, ask her a million questions.
But to be totally honest, just being in that room with her and just listening to what I could was so, so game changing.
And I feel like my people want to listen to you now. I want you to be the one who changes the game for others.That's crazy.
But like when you ask me sort of questions about incorporating and sampling and stuff like these are the things I spent so long on Google trying to find and I'm so happy to sort of share whatever I can.
So I mean one thing anyone wants to start a brand get that experience in buying.
I don't think there's another, I don't think there's another role in fashion that will credit as much because the spreadsheets that you see and the imports and where in the world these clothes, the information that you're open up to was just insane for me.
It was like information overload all the time and I don't know what other role would give you access to that. get a experience in buying.Don't try and rush it like I did.
If my mom would have given me that 10,000 pound early on and I didn't have that experience, I might not be here.And that will help you with things like margins.Like when I went into Odd Muse, my profit margin was there, including shipping.
And everything was like, there was no, now we're getting into things like we're going with Harvey Nichols. And we're ready for that.My profit margins are there.My profit margins are there for a middleman to come in and that's fine.
I knew about wholesale margins because I worked with ASOS.I was buying from brands like Ted Baker.I knew how much they had to sell it for.I knew how much we had to buy it for.
So that's where you're gonna get all your knowledge about buying, shipping.Sampling and suppliers is one thing I get a lot.A lot of people expect me to just say, hi, old music manufacturers at this place.And of course I'm not gonna say that.
But you know, figure out where in the world you wanna manufacture, where specializes in what, whether you wanna be sort of, you're gonna be overseas because UK manufacturing is,
It just isn't possible unless you're doing bespoke handmade for a hell of a lot of money.And spend a lot of time with your idea.Don't scrimp out on anything.If you've got a good dress that you've designed, think of a good brand name to go with it.
Think of a good message.The basics of business is bringing a product to market that offers a solution.So what solution has this dress got?With the blazer, I was like, okay, what's my solution?I want it to be an investment fashion brand.
I want it to be stuff that you wanna wear all the time, but I don't want it to be as cliche as just bringing out a black blazer.It has to have something different.It has to offer a statement.
And I sat with that idea for ages until I come up with the blazer.Originally it was a shoe with, it was a barely there shoe with different threads, like different ankle straps.
You designed a shoe first?
Why did you not go with that?Because I wanted to be a women's wear clothing designer, but I sat with my message investment fashion for a long time.And I was like, and then it was a blazer that I whipped the sleeves off.
It was button sleeves and you could whip the sleeves off and it was a waistcoat.And then it was the blazer.
I feel like you're a mad scientist as well.
oh yeah I am like that's what people say like I'm a bit crazy oh no that's fine everyone's a little bit crazy who's creative it's absolutely normal to be like that but the thing is like I wasn't I'm never crazy enough to just like go for things I have to be really really confident and by the time I got to the blazer I was like yes this supports the message yeah
So yeah, my big bit of advice would be like make sure it prioritizes everything.Like don't just drop a dress and hope it goes viral.
Let people click through to your website and see like how credible your brand is and like what your message is and what you know, what your mission is.
So I'm smiling in excitement because I have a brand launching and I feel like everything you said is exactly what we've done I've been doing it for three years at this point in time and like just like I was looking at colors That's why I was a bit late with they've got the Pantone's wrong That's the wrong green
And like, it's like, no, don't make the order.And like, look at that.And we were sitting down like looking at what green feels right for us and that kind of thing.It's like just being sure about what you're gonna do is gonna be good.
Level of detail is so important.And that is now more important than ever because TikTok and viral culture can have you thinking that you might just get lucky.And you know, I got into a point
with my business where I would rely on a viral TikTok for sales.And that was such a toxic place to be.Now, viral culture is a bonus for us.Oh, a video done well, great.
But if a video doesn't perform or anything, we're still getting our same daily sales.We're still a sustainable business.Everyone's job's safe.That's what's important.And that's when it comes to that level of detail and not so much viral culture.
Viral culture is a bonus not to be relied on.
So you're opening a store in London and Dubai.That is an amazing achievement.Can you tell me why you chose those locations and what that process looks like?
So London was, we did a pop up beginning of this year and it went amazing.We ended up keeping it open for like six months. But it was huge.It was like the biggest store ever.
And it had to be because we had a lot of people come down for opening and stuff like that.And I just got the bug to have a store, but I wanted it to be more sort of like a boutique, like a flagship boutique.
So I've been on the hunt for like a much smaller store to create more of an experience for that one person that walks in. And to be totally honest, I wanna have stores worldwide.
And for me, it's so important to have a permanent in London before I even think about anywhere else.So London was first and we've tested it and it done really well.And I feel that as an e-commerce brand, I really wanna separate myself.
I do have stores and I feel like that just adds so much credibility to the brand.We're not just an e-commerce brand anymore.We do very well on our online store and I don't think anything will ever beat that, but I wanna offer an in-person experience.
So that's how London's come about. And then Dubai, Middle East is actually a bit of a challenge for us.We do incredibly well in the US, Australia, but Middle East is one demographic that we've not quite hit yet.So I'm not hiding.
We get like a few orders and that's like really inspired me.We've got a warehouse out there now that, you know, at the moment we're getting about five orders a day. I mean, in the UK, we see like 200 orders a day.Like it's completely different.
I feel like I'm starting again.I really enjoy this Dubai project because I feel like it's me three years ago starting again.But yeah, the Middle East for me just feels like a bit of a challenge and a bit of a passion project that I want to work on.
So it's not really like a given, but I'm ready for it.
I feel like you're so excited for it as well.I'm getting fired up to this. It's actually difficult.
You know what, I'm more thinking about just going to Dubai this evening and just slowing down from here.
No, just do that.I know you've talked a lot about like finding your purpose while you kind of build your business as well.I feel a bit bad it's a bit inconclusive at the moment.But maybe I'll come back next season.
That's exactly why I'm like, this is like imperfect founder, right?Because the idea that we have it all together is actually a false idea.There's such beauty in chaos.I love it. We're all on these journeys.
And even at my big age, I don't know what the hell I'm doing half the time.And that's fine.
I don't know what I'm doing.And it's the best thing.Like sometimes I get asked a question.I'm like, I don't know, but we'll figure it out.
That's the way, that's the way.But what you are really interested in is one, your sustainability message alongside your charitable work.So do you want to expand on that a little bit more?Cause I'd love to hear about it.
So sustainability is something that I'm really trying to work towards and I'm learning more about.In terms of sustainability is so subjective because a lot of these sustainable good for the planet fabrics need you to order a thousand units.
And that's when we start putting product into waste and that's over consumption and stuff like that.So I struggle a lot with sustainability.Our pre-order model is great for that.We only order what we need.
But I'm really trying to grow the brand to the point where we can comfortably meet those minimums on those sustainable fabrics.So like various different recycled fabrics.But the main thing for me is just sort of slowing down fashion.
And I feel like fashion is just so naturally becoming that way.People are like a bit more conscious of what they're buying and want more out of their clothes.And fast fashion, like their revenues is slowing down.
lot and that's fine for them there's still a lot hell of a lot of money in it for them and I think they just need it just needs to be in that industry maybe a bit more comfortable with the fact that if people are buying from them they want more out of their wear and if we can slow production on fast fashion side then you know there's a lot of people that can benefit from that so I really love being a part of that journey and I feel like it's
our message is predominant now more than ever I feel and I feel like that's why the brand's having this really big moment because stuff we've been saying for three years is super relevant and then in terms of the the charity work that we're recently getting into I've sort of just it was London Fashion Week that
sort of jolted me a little bit, because I was like, I've reached this optimum success and all these things that I want to do, and London Fashion Week was a point for me, like a show in London Fashion Week, I was like, there's so much work that goes into this and so much press, and why don't brands use this as an opportunity to raise some money?
There's some good people that are going to be sitting down at your show, give them a little QR code scan to donate.We've done a collection with our runway collection where portions of the proceeds are going to go to
a charity called Teens Unite, who basically work with young adults who have been affected by cancer treatment in such pivotal years, like haven't been able to go to university or haven't been able to get a normal school life.
And that really affected me because there's just, you can live such a fast life in the world of building a business and when it does reach success, that you can almost think that things like that aren't happening in the world.I never thought
If them years were taken away from me, I wouldn't be sitting here today.So for me, and I think it links back to another question about how are you going to start enjoying your success, it's sharing it on a brand level.
A couple girls who want to get into the industry, who are with that charity, come to the show And, you know, I always feel bad.It was no trouble at all for me to let them girls come to that show.
And it literally like the emails I've got from them, like helping people is so important.And it's just, I feel like it's just this epiphany that I've had lately where like, that's how I feel like we should be enjoying our success and platforms.
And so, yeah, that's sort of like a new thing for Ob Muse and something that, Not that I didn't ever wanna do, it was more so you live just such a fast life and it's like, wow, things are actually going on and you can be a part of change.
I think that's where it's gonna be it for me.That's like where my fulfillment is.
I love that.And that's what probably you're gonna do on this podcast as well.A lot of people are gonna watch this and get so much value and be helped and probably reach out. and contact you.So I really appreciate having you on today.
There was so many insights and I feel like I need to have another conversation with you off camera about other things as well.But thank you for coming on, Amy, today.Where can people find you?
So on Instagram and TikTok, it's both oddmuselondon.And yeah, appreciate it.Thank you so much.
So good.I love it.Marketing is hard. But I'll tell you a little secret.It doesn't have to be.Let me point something out.You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great.You love the host.You seek it out and download it.
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