You know, it's beatings, it's electrical, it's dripping hot wax, you know, they'll burn victims, you know, they get clever.
They did all that to you?
Welcome back to Other People's Lives.I'm Joe Santagato.I'm Greg Dibek.For anyone out there that would like to be a guest on our show, don't hesitate to hit us up.Our email is oplpodcast at gmail.com.
Today we are speaking to a man named Jeff Frazier.Jeff is a US Army veteran turned entrepreneur and humanitarian. He has done a ton of work in Haiti, leading organizations that fight against child trafficking and poverty in the country.
And during one specific food distribution mission, Jeff was actually kidnapped by a ruthless Haitian gang and held hostage for 43 torturous straight days.
And he's here today to talk about how he was able to survive and escape that situation and why his kidnapping has only fueled his passion to help the people of Haiti.So, Jeff, thank you so much for being on the show today.
Thanks for having me.I really appreciate it.
And before we get into the story of your kidnapping and survival, can you just explain to us the general work that you were doing in Haiti at the time and why you find it so important and just what that general climate in Haiti is at the moment for anyone who might not be aware?
Sure.Yeah, the very quick version is I initially got started in the anti-trafficking space in Haiti, well, globally, but specifically in Haiti.
And what we quickly found is that that issue is predominantly poverty-driven, meaning you don't sell your kids unless you're dying of starvation.
And so we quickly learned in order to solve that issue in Haiti, we were going to have to lift that whole country.
and so went to work trying to understand what that would take and we've done all kinds of projects there from agroforestry to building roads and digging wells and then of course policy work and all that and we've got a lot of really good long-term ideas around how to help Haiti but we realized last year while
late 2022, that the country was falling apart so much that people were dying left and right, and that our long-term solutions weren't going to cut it because many of these people that we were trying to serve were going to be dead before our fancy programs came to fruition.
changed our vision to, hey, let's just get some food and water and cooking oil out to these people in order to save some lives while we try to, in the meantime, solve the security issue.That's really the predominant driver.
To answer your question on what's happening in Haiti, a really long story short is the Resident was assassinated in 2021.That created a big power vacuum that normally is filled by politicians, but in this case was filled by the gangs.
The gangs have taken over about 80, 85% of Port-au-Prince now, that's the capital. and run really all the most important corridors around the country.
And so the last bastion of safety, quote unquote, is really a few slices of the capital, meaning the airport, the U.S.Embassy, and its adjoined areas and a handful of hotel rows. But for the most part, gangs run that place.
And it's a pretty horrific environment.You've got about half the country in some form of extreme hunger and about two million of them in what we call acute hunger or critical hunger.That's people who are starving to death.So it's pretty bad.
So, I mean, can you also describe the differences that you sort of like felt when you would go before and after this assassination, before the gangs kind of like took over?
Yeah, well, you used to worry about what they call bandies.It's like basically a bandit, right?It was the same gangs, but they would come out of their hiding places and come and do bad stuff, right?They'd steal cars.
So carjackings, they were doing kidnappings, but never Americans, but they didn't hold territory.And what happened as we moved forward from 21, 22, is they started to take over territory. and become these little mini countries unto themselves.
They would fight amongst each other for borders and then, of course, would destroy the police station in their area, burn it to the ground, and then they owned that territory.And so that was a major shift throughout 2022, 2020, the beginning of 2023.
That's really where we were at when I got kidnapped last April, that's of 2023, was these gangs were controlling the major corridors that would allow us to get food to the people in different regions of the country.
And so we partnered with the World Food Program to go to places where they couldn't go.And we would make these deals with the gangs to get into these territories where normally that would go pretty well.But in this case, it obviously didn't go well.
I was gonna ask if you had interactions with the gangs, and you say that you were making deals with them, what kind of deals were you guys sort of making?
So you're just basically saying, Hey, I want to come into your territory or go through your territory to do this food distribution.Are you good with that?
And typically, they're great with it, because they essentially take credit for it, which is fine.I don't care.So they would, they essentially be our security team while we were there, right?
They would escort us in with their guns and whatnot, and we would do these food distributions.They would please the general populace in that particular area that they control, and then we would leave, and everybody wins, right, in that case.
Okay, because I was going to ask, like, sometimes you hear stories of, like, cartel or gangs and territories, like, is there some level of compassion for the people in their territories that they want to help?Or is it
do they just not even have the resources for that?And they'll just kind of take credit when they can in the case of you coming in and giving food?
Yeah, so there's a range.If you look at a continuum, on one end, you've got these pretty mature gangs who have been in control for decades in certain areas, where there have not been outside services or police or anything like that for a long time.
And, and those areas really,
the gang leader acts as the mayor or as the president of that tiny little country versus on the opposite end of the spectrum, you've got these more recent pop-up or startup gangs that are maybe a couple years old that are just taking over and they're incredibly brutal and the general population absolutely loathes them and will occasionally rise up against them, which actually just happened
two, about two weeks ago, no, about a week ago.Uh, and they, so they ran out the gang, but unfortunately they, that gang regrouped, came back and killed 70 people in a devastating massacre.
So, so that those are two kind of opposite ends of the spectrum, right?
On, on one side you have what I just described and on the opposite that they've achieved some sort of sort, some sort of homeostasis where they're, they've just kind of lived with each other for so long.
Nobody really remembers what it's like otherwise.
Wow. And I guess to paint this picture before we get into your story, you know, we see news reports here and, and I guess some of these gangs, like, what are you dealing with?Like the level of brutality or ruthlessness?
You know, what, how are they terrorizing the territories and the citizens?You know, what are some of the things that you've heard or seen?
Oh, it's as horrific as you can imagine.I mean, so of that 70 that were killed last week, three were infants who were brutally massacred.
Public burnings, they'll burn people in their houses, they'll round them up, put them in houses and burn them to death.You name it, they're doing it.Frequent rapes where they'll rape one party and then kill everyone else.
It's just the worst things you can imagine.
Jesus.Um, so yeah, I mean, I guess, you know, we'd love to hear about your story and can you kind of just walk us through, you know, what the initial mission was, uh, and how it kind of went south and you ended up getting kidnapped.
Yeah, sure.So our distribution mission was in a place called Jacques Mel, which is a relatively peaceful city or village in the south of Haiti.
So if you imagine the shape of Haiti being like your your right hand pointing to the left, so you got your thumb on the bottom and your index finger on the top, that's the general shape, it's two big peninsula.
So this is on the bottom of the your thumb, right, the South Peninsula.And we had to go from the the central area where the airport is, right?We flew in there.That's where the big port, so Port Oakland, the ocean port is.
So that's where all the food comes in.So you have to get that food down to the south.How do you do that?Because you've got to go through one of several gang territories.Well, you make a deal.
We had a deal between my security guy, my head of security, and a particular gang to go through his territory.We weren't distributing in his territory, but we were just driving our truck through, both my individual pickup truck and the food truck.
We go through successfully.It was in a town called Martisange, it's the main corridor to the west. We go through, no problem.
When I call it a toll booth, it's like a blue umbrella, two lawn chairs underneath, and then a bunch of dudes with assault rifles, usually AR-15s or AK-47s. And we get through, it's a very tense moment, but we get through.
Apparently our arrangement worked and we go down to Jacques Mille, we do the distribution for a few days.And on our way back, we go by that same toll booth and we do so successfully.It's a hold your breath kind of moment.
And I'm in the back of a pickup with very dark tinted windows. My two security guys are sitting in the front of the pickup truck with their windows fully down for security reasons, right?
You don't want to be a threat and you can't be a secret when you're coming in there.So you want the gang to see you, recognize your face that, Hey, we have a deal.And that worked.We keep driving by the toll booth.
We get about a half a mile, maybe a quarter mile from safe, right? there's this gang territory that we're passing through, then there's a no man's land, which is kind of like imagine the DMZ in North Korea.
And then you get to the safe territory on the other side, and you can see it where I can see safety.And then a bunch of motorcycles surround our truck and, and a couple guys jump inside and we were kidnapped.
So they took you and two of your security team? And did you, like, what was the reason why?Is it the same people that let you pass?
Yeah, yeah.No, it was the dudes from the toll booth that, you know, saw us go by, let us go by and then just decided to take us.What I know now that I didn't know then is they go on kind of these shopping sprees.
So the day that I was taken, 13 people in total were taken and put into two different cells in two different rooms.Sorry, 15.So seven on one side, eight on the other.And, and all of those people were taken on the same day and then were
slowly but surely ransomed and returned over the course of 43 days.So the last person was released on the 35th day, and then I was by myself, day 36 to 43.That was just their shopping spree day.
I don't think there was any sort of grand plan to take us and that they were waiting for us to come back through there.I think we just got unlucky on the shopping spree day.
Were you all Americans, or do they do this to Haitian citizens as well?
No, I think they just got lucky, you know, grabbing an American.Coincidentally, so maybe three weeks earlier, I had read a story in the Miami Herald about an American couple getting kidnapped, and it, of course, felt terrible for them.
And when I walked in and was led into the cell that would be my home, both of those, that couple, a man and a woman, the Toussaint's were sitting there.And I was like, you gotta be kidding me.
So, and lucky for them, my first day was their, almost their last day.So my second day was their last day.And they, they, they got out after that.So
Are you armed when you're doing these missions?Like when that when you were in the truck with your security?
Do you have weapons?We were yeah, but you're not gonna, you're not gonna fight back where they've got eight assault rifles, you've got a couple of 9 mils and 45s, you know, that kind of thing.
So I mean, when when they surround you, and they take you like, what's going through your head?Like, do you like at first realize what's going on?Or like, you know, is part of you fearing for your life at this point?
Yeah, so I'm an eternal optimist.I definitely fight the arrogance of things.And so in this moment, I have not accepted my fate.So even when they jump in the car, I'm not a stranger to armed gang members, right?We work side by side with these guys.
So I'm still hopeful that there's some business deal that can be done.I was carrying four grand in cash for this project. So I was pretty confident I could buy my way out of most situations, right?My presumption was that it was just a shakedown.
And so we flip a Huey in the truck, head back toward the toll booth, and I'm presuming we're just gonna go to the toll booth.Some mid-level gangster's gonna come out and demand more than we had agreed to.
But I definitely was not thinking kidnapping at that point.But then we make a left before the toll booth, which is south and up, up a hill.And we're headed toward kind of the gangs lair.
And as soon as we make that left, then I know we're being held for ransom.And that's the plan.I still thought I had some get out of jail free cards, just because of the connections that I had from previous distributions.
Uh, you know, most of those gangs are all allied with each other.So I figured I could call in some favors.It took me about five days, maybe three, three to five days to realize that none of those were going to work.
And I was just going to have to be in it for the long haul.But so yeah, it took me a while to accept it.Uh, but within 30 minutes I had guns in my face and demands for $2 million.And so, you know, reality set in real quick.
Okay.2 million.Wow.So that's, that was my question.
It's like they're the shopping spree, their plan, I guess, for, for it to be flawless for them is they take the people they can get and then they get ransom for each of those people and then actually do release them.
Um, where are they getting these ransom numbers from and who are they reaching out to, to get this ransom?Is it like the U S government or your family?
Yeah, so the vast majority of those kidnapped are Haitians, not Americans, right?You get plenty of Americans, but there's some, probably 200 Haitian gangs.Of those, maybe 30 are regularly kidnapping people for ransom.
And then a handful are famous for it.And I'm with one of the ones that's more well-known. And they kill about 20% of their captives.So everyone in there is frightened for their life, most certainly.
And while I will do some calculus in my own mind and figure that I'm worth too much to kill.But, you know, you start second guessing that when, you know, they can make themselves famous by killing you.So, you know, there's, you're always worried.
And you're hopeful that they're going to keep you alive.But you're always worried that this could go south at any minute.
Do they like at any point do like the people who are kidnapping you speak English?Are you able to communicate with them?
So I speak some Creole, but luckily one of the so the first couple of days, the two sons were my translators.And then later on that first day, another woman was kidnapped and she spoke English.So she acted as my translator for most of the time.
Okay.So who did they reach out to on your behalf to try to get this ransom?
Yeah, so by like six, so I was taking around lunchtime by 6.30 or so, I'm able to get my phone for the first time and make a call and let people know I was taken.
My first call was to a guy that I call Bill, that's not his real name, but who I think is gonna be one of my get out of jail free cards.That's my first call and I also give him another phone number of a friend who can start
my home team figuring out solutions to get me out. But that they basically give you the phone and say, Hey, call your call your family or call your friends, you know, get those wheels turning.
So it's like, if you want to, if you want to live, here's your phone, go through your contacts and get us this money somehow.
Yes.And that's their shtick, right?They'll, they'll continue doing that as long as they have patience, because they treat you like an ATM, right?That most people have to pay three, four or five times before they get out.
Right. So it's like, hey, give me $2 million.Well, I don't have $2 million.I have $1,000.And they'll say, they'll say, Okay, we'll let you out for 1000.And they just never do.Right.And then that amount adds up and adds up.
And eventually, time takes over.And they decide whether or not they've gotten all the coins out of your couch cushions.Right.And if the ATM is empty, then they let you go.
Jeez.So how do they decide who to murder?
How do they decide who to murder?You say they killed 20% of their captives, right?
Yeah, that's a good question.Um, so luckily no one was killed while I was there.Um, you know, the normal torture tactics were all deployed, but, but nobody was killed.There was a couple of moments where I thought, uh, we were all in trouble.Um,
But luckily, this particular gang, I know now, is not known for murdering its captives, although there's blood everywhere in those cells, right?The blood all over the mattresses and on stained in the floor.
So, you know, they definitely keep you quite frightened.
How are they like torturing the prisoners?
You know, it's beatings, it's electrical, it's dripping hot wax, you know, they'll burn victims, you know, they get clever.
They did all that to you?
I was beaten and shocked.
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RocketMoney.com slash OPL.Do you remember, you know, 43 days is a very long time.Can you sort of pinpoint in your mind what may be like the hardest stretch of that was or the hardest moment on you mentally and physically?
Yeah.So I escaped, uh, on the early morning hours of day 29.So we had a failed ransom attempt on the evening of the 28th day.
Uh, and I'd already prepared an escape and after they didn't let me go and then came back and made a bunch of threats to beat me forever.And then I was going to die there.I basically decided to try the escape.
So you did get them money and they didn't let you go.
Correct.Yeah.Wow.How much? I probably shouldn't say, but it was far less than any of those numbers that they demanded.It was a very small amount.I'm proud of my team.They played a very tough game of chess and won.
So small amount, you think you're out, they tell you, nope, not enough, we're keeping you here.Okay, so can you walk us through how you planned and did this escape?
Yeah, so I had very few options to get out.So you're in concrete, and then the windows are covered in bars.And I don't know how much time you guys have, but I essentially figured out a way to take the nylon from one of the mattresses.There's like a
if you imagine your mattress at home, it's made out of nylon, most likely.And then there's like a ribbing around the outside.I had sliced off that ribbing and made it into nylon rope.
And then put that nylon rope around the bars that were covering the window.And then if you're familiar with how a tourniquet works, right?You stick a stick through like a fabric and you twist it, right? That's essentially what I did.
And then that pulls the bars together.And if you do that to two different sets of bars, then that opens a gap in the middle.And it took a couple hours to do that night.
But by three in the morning, there's enough space in the bars for myself and one of the other captives to fit through.
What made you risk that?Did you think that if you were caught escaping that they would kill you?
It's definitely a concern.I was banking on the fact that the calculus would remain even after they caught me.I expected a lot of beatings.
So the Toussaint's mentioned somebody who tried to escape while they were there and that they were beaten pretty badly.So I presumed that that was my most likely consequence and that I was still worth money alive. So, but you never know.
We only got maybe a mile and a half.It lasted about eight hours of pseudo freedom before we were captured by a neighboring gang and then eventually returned to our cell that next late morning.
Is there a reason why only two of you went?
So there was only two in that room at that point.Everyone else had been released.There were still, I wanna say three or four dudes in the other room on the other side at that point.And I offered them a chance to come with us.
We were able to communicate through, so we shared a concrete wall and on the outside, we both had exterior windows.So I could pound on that wall, they would then come to their window and then I could talk to them out my window, if that makes sense.
So I offered them a chance to come with us and they said no.So it was just myself and the other female that was captive with me in my room.
So, I guess two questions.One, do you remember the feeling when you got captured?And two, were there consequences for an attempted escape?
Oh yeah.No.So that's when it, so you, the reason I brought that up is your question was when did it get particularly bad?
And that was when, so, uh, as soon as I got, that's when my real kind of tortures and beatings started and, and from then on it was pretty horrific.
What were some of the things they did?And I guess just like how continuous or, you know, it was just sort of beatings all day long.
No.So that first day it was pretty much all day.Um, they gave me breathers, but it's like different people would come in and have a good time and make threats.And yeah, so that was day 29.
And then, you know, it was definitely less frequent in the following days, but everyone else got, so when I came back, they didn't put me in the same room because the bars are bent.
They put, so they put myself and the other captive in with the other dudes on the other side.And I want to say there was then five of us.Yes, there was five of us in that room. And they all started getting released.So that was day 29.
They start getting released on like day 31, 32, 33.So by day 35, everybody's gone but me.
And that whole kind of solitary thing from day 35 to 43, that sounds like not very many days, but it is an excruciatingly long amount of days when you're by yourself.And every time that door opens, it's another, you know, not good situation.
So I started acting very primal.I remember being woken in the middle of the night by dudes coming and I would pop up on all fours like a cat, you know, caged animal.
It's a, it's not a good place to be in when you think you're fighting for your life all day, every day.It's a very high level of cortisol to have running through your blood that many hours in a row.
Yeah, I can only imagine.Are you fighting back also?Or you just have to just let this happen?
No, you've got to submit, right?Then you're, you know, all of my training in the military was that you got to protect yourself, try to stay safe.And, you know, you got to remember what they're trying to achieve, right?They just want you to submit.
In some cases, they're just trying to feel powerful, right?And, and so you'll even, vocalize more than you would normally.You want to give them the satisfaction that they came for so that it'll just stop.I'm a pretty big guy.I'm very physical.
I've always really enjoyed, I used to box in the army.I like that kind of feeling.I love football.I was not a very good football player, but I really enjoyed the violence and the contact of it.
The idea of a beating isn't in and of itself as bad as it sounds, but when they start really hurting your body, like they would wreck my hands by twisting my fingers and joints around.I still have nerve damage on my right hand from it.
That kind of stuff really triggers a different thing in your mind. that is incredibly frightening.And then anytime you've got a gun against your body, any part of your body, that it's really hard to keep your cool.
And what were the, like, just living conditions?Like, were you, were you being fed?Were you given water?
Um, some, I lost about 50 pounds while I was in there.Um, that last couple of days, um, before I was released, I got very little water.And that is a terrifying situation.
We had some bleach water that you're not supposed to drink, but you just do anyway, because I don't know what it is about your mind.You feel like you got to drink something.But so yeah, sometimes.
Wow.So I mean, how did you ultimately end up being released?
So luckily my team was awesome and demanded this.So the normal mode for a ransom is that you send a courier in to the gang's territory, very close to where I was taken.
and you hand over the cash, the gang takes the cash up to the hill to their base, they count it, and then decide whether or not they're gonna bring you down the hill and give you to the courier.
And that didn't go well on day 28, so my team was like, hey, We're not playing that game again.We will play a small one more time, but you got to do a live exchange.And so that means Jeff needs to be there.
Otherwise our courier, isn't going to give you the cash. And I'll save the details of that.You can jump on the podcast to get the two-hour version of this story, because everything went sideways on us.But luckily, eventually, it works.
And I'm driven on a motorcycle to the Marriott Hotel, and I was free.
You keep complimenting your team, and it seems like there's a lot of strategy behind how to negotiate this situation. Is there part of you that was enduring more pain and beating and kind of prolonging this to play this game and to pay less money?
Like at any point, could you have picked up the phone and said, just give them more and try to get me out?
It's funny because so the opposite was actually true.So this is kind of the ongoing battle between myself and my team.So let's rewind back to the early days.You know, I made that phone call, the first phone call, my
I kind of get out of jail free cards didn't work.That took a few days.And then at that point, I decided to negotiate on my own behalf, which is a terrible idea.Because normally your your negotiators are somewhere else.
And you are stuck in the middle as this kind of point of leverage. Imagine if you, Greg, are my negotiator and you're on the phone with the gang, and they say, I want a bunch of money or I'm going to hurt Jeff.
You say, don't do that, but you're also playing tough, saying, I'm sorry, how am I going to get that money? And you're trying to be nice and not make the gang angry, but his leverage is hurting me.I'm the captive.
There's a lot of things in between dead Jeff and comfortable Jeff.And he can do everything in between and not lose his investment.And so that's obviously a tricky thing for a team to negotiate around.
But imagine if now I'm the negotiator and I'm the point of leverage, right?It doesn't take much to get me to agree to just about anything, right?And so I negotiate, I decided to negotiate on my own behalf because I don't know who to call, right?I'm,
I'm deeply involved in Haiti.I know Haiti very well.I know Haiti issues deeply.I know the environment.I speak at least some of the language.I can see that everything going around me, I understand what others are paying that are getting free.
I cannot imagine anyone being more qualified to negotiate on my behalf than me.And so I don't really let my outside team negotiate on my behalf. I don't really acknowledge that I even have a team until like day 14.
When I start to see text messages come across my phone, because I got to see my phone again on day 14. And everyone I love is messaging me with the same message, like, hey, use this phone number as your negotiator and stop playing games.
And eventually I relent, right?And I turn my attention to my phone number. my heart over to accepting that I'm going to be in this place for a long time.There is no quick amount that you can pay that's going to get you out.
Because if you pay big and you pay fast, then they just assume that the ATM is big and will keep yielding cash for a long time.The only thing that's really fixed is the amount of time.
No matter what, I'm going to be in there for about six weeks, maybe four weeks, maybe eight, depending on how we play this.But if I pay big and fast, I'm in big trouble.
In my negotiating on my own behalf, I'm of course saying big numbers and trying to do that fast. And then my team on the outside is talking to the gangs on their own and totally discrediting me.
And that's really what my own podcast is, that 43 Days of Freedom that we talked about before.It goes through all of that. it's excruciatingly painful to see us fighting each other.
Myself and my team on the outside being led by my wife, who I don't realize is becoming this incredible strategist on my behalf, but I just have no idea what's going on on the outside.So we're kind of at odds for quite a while.
Wow.That is unbelievable.I can't even imagine.And then, uh, you know, I mean, what kind of injuries did you sustain?Like when you get out, like what is his life like immediately after that?Do you have to be at the hospital for a while?
Um, no, so most of his bumps and bruises and then, you know, my hands were messed up pretty good, but I'm not going to go to the hospital for, for any of that.
But, uh, yeah, just, you know, um, the weight loss and then, but most of it was, you know, post-traumatic stress stuff.And I was wrecked real good, you know, in, in that I was definitely in shock for a while.
How, how long, uh, how long ago did this happen?
I was last year.So, you know, I got out May 24th, 2023.Oh, wow.Pretty recently.
And since then, what have you done with your freedom?Because from my understanding, you are still involved in Haiti.
I am, I am, but I have super enjoyed my freedom.It's been fantastic.Those first few days were wonderful.I ate so much, ate so much.I say that I lost about 50 pounds.It was probably more than that.
I don't know, because I didn't get back to my house for, I think, five days.My wife wisely took me to a hotel offsite to let me kind of come down a little bit.And she was in terrible shape as well, right?
She had been writing this very similar trauma for six weeks also.So we needed some detox time, which we did.But when I come back is the first time I got on a scale and it was 50 pounds at that point.So it was probably more than that.
Did you stay in Haiti or did you go right back to America?
No, no, no.So they didn't have any flights out that same day.I think I was, I got free around four in the afternoon, but I was on the, like an 11 o'clock flight the next morning and came back to Miami.
So, okay.So you enjoyed that time, um, new lease on life, obviously, but did it cross your mind to stop the work that you were doing or did you sort of just say, I'm doubling down now?
Oh, yeah, definitely double down.So when you see the level of terror that these gangs are levying on these poor people of Haiti that you can't help but fight on their behalf, you know, that the
Just yards away from where I was being held captive are many, many, many Haitians who are being held captive to this day.I'm free.I'm here in my house in South Florida and I'm comfortable and warm and they are still there.
going through this same terror and are being raped and forced to subject themselves to all sorts of horrific things.They can't go to church.They can't go to school.They can't go to the hospital.They can't get food.It's just horrible.
And so absolutely, I'm going to stay in the fight and try to bring peace to this nation and prosperity to this nation.We have not yet achieved it.It's only gone one direction. I won't give up.
So what is the work that you're doing currently and has it evolved since before your kidnapping?
Yeah, definitely evolved.So, you know, I never did this podcasting thing.
You know, that's really my intent is to raise massive awareness within the US and basically anybody outside of Haiti about what's happening in Haiti and how they can help and that changes on a daily basis.And so
the podcast audience that I'm trying to grow is people who wanna know how to help at any given time, right?So a couple of weeks ago, it was about a particular piece of legislation that helps businesses that help businesses in Haiti.
So if you're in the US, you get favorable tax status for your business to do business with companies in Haiti.So that was then, and luckily that passed and is moving forward, and then it'll be another thing and then another thing.
I'm trying to essentially raise up an army of advocates who understand how to lift Haiti from outside of Haiti.
Have you been back to Haiti?
No, I can't go back for quite a while.You know, the security situation is only devolved.And now I'm very well known amongst the gang leaders.So I would be marked at the airport.Wow.Wouldn't get very far.
Um, so what, where can people find your podcast and this, the audience that you're building and all the information that you're putting out?
Thank you so much for asking.So if you'll start at our website, it's stimpak.org.That's S T I M P A C K.org.And then you'll get all your links, your social links from there.You can follow us on podcasts or, you know, YouTube or Instagram and.
all of that but we'd love to have you come listen to so 43 days to freedom is season two of our podcast ignore season one it's incredibly boring and technical and nerdy but so just jump to season two that's the 43 days to freedom
And that's where you go into even more detail of your story and your timing.
Yeah, the whole season of the story.It's like 15 hours.People binge it and then send me emails after they come out the other end.It's an honor that people spend that much time in it.
But if you want to see the real story of what it takes to get somebody free, And just to survive while you're in there, that's your story is 43 days of freedom.
It really takes a, it shows you all the perspectives because I have my wife and she, that jumps on the podcast as well and tells her side, reads from her own journal and then some of my other fellow captives and rescuers and like, so yeah, it's a whole season to kind of understand the micro nuances of what it takes to get,
out.Wow.Unbelievable.Well, if anybody ever makes a movie about our, our situation, it'll be from my wife's perspective that she is the hero arc, right?I'm just this idiot sitting in a concrete box, but my wife, it becomes this incredible thing.
And you get to see that happening kind of before your eyes.
It's, it's incredible, honestly, just to even hear about it.I mean, I'm locked in to this story and I definitely have to go check out the podcast.
Thank you.Yeah.And no, seriously, you know, what you endured and, uh, the fact that it has caused you to only want to help people more, uh, you know, and just try to do something for that situation.
It's so horrible to hear everything that you just said.
And, you know, just even catching the news stories and seeing what's happening and just knowing that, you know, so many people there, it's, uh, just, it's a fear to walk to the grocery store or I know people are like tracking like, Oh, my mom,
you know, went to the grocery store today, is she going to get kidnapped or, you know, come back or kidnapped for the fifth time?Like it's, it's insane.
But, um, no, I think, um, doing, doing what, you know, obviously, I don't know if you ever plan on going back to the country, please be careful.
Well, once we establish security there, then I can go back and, and absolutely plan to do that.Uh, you know, it, it's funny.I'm incredibly optimistic about Haiti.You know, the,
If you look around the world at other nations that are deeply impoverished, I think Chad, Mozambique, Rwanda, all these countries are poor.Rwanda's a bad example because they're actually
doing a lot better now, but there are many countries that are poor.Haiti's like 20 on that list, and all of the ones above it are poor for the more predictable reasons.
They have poor geography, or they've got ethnic tensions that have caused civil war for decades, or they're suffering from desertification, or they're landlocked.All these kinds of things that are hard to overcome.Haiti has none of those.
Haiti's in a great location.In the Caribbean, they have tons of great business partners.There's no reason why they should be at war, and they're not.It's a different thing.
All of the issues that they struggle with are solvable issues, and we at STEMPAC, and you'll learn this in season three if you ever get that far,
are presenting a solution to those issues, things that we think are the missing piece of the puzzle that is Haiti.
Because it is most certainly a puzzle because it shouldn't be in this situation, and we think we've found the missing piece to that puzzle, and that's what we're trying to present to people.
Dude, we cannot thank you enough for coming on our platform and talking about this.
I mean, the story is incredible, you know, not only, you know, to come on here and raise awareness for your podcast and the story, which in turn will create more awareness, but also just in general for the issues that are going on in Haiti.
And, you know, I think it's incredible that you
not only started jumping into this sort of field and then, you know, going through what you're going through and sort of doubling down and helping in any way that you could with more plans to get back there when you can do that safely.
Like, it really is incredible.And we just thank you so much for coming on our platform and, and sharing this story.
And we hope that, you know, other people who listen to this show will check out, you know, everything and hopefully help in some way that they can as well.
Thank you so much.I really appreciate you guys having me on.It's an honor to tell the story and hopefully do some good work for these people in Haiti.
Yeah, absolutely.And we'll definitely be checking it out.We'll drop the link and everything in the description of this show.And we just truly wish you the best of luck with everything.And please stay safe out there if you do go back.
Thank you.No, I appreciate that someday.And thanks everybody at home for listening.I really appreciate you taking the time.
Yeah, thank you, man.Have a good one.
I, that is an unbelievable.That's just the something you see in a movie.Unbelievable.
Unbelievable.I can't even imagine.I mean, I was so locked in.I feel like I was there.I mean, I don't feel like I was there, but I, I like, you can just, it's, it's unbelievable.
And to even like be in the position where you're like, I have to plan an escape. and be scared for your life, like every single day and realizing like, I don't know when I'm getting out of here.Like, I can't even imagine that.
Like, it's crazy, man.And like, to me too, it's just the, just that like humanitarian mindset, like people like him who it's just, like I will dedicate my life.
I won't just dedicate my life, but I will put my life on the line for other people who are people who are just in worse circumstances than I am in a completely different country, a different, like we, so many of us don't feel the need or don't have to care about these issues that don't directly affect us.
And then there's just, you know, people who like him, who are just dedicating, uh, all of their willpower and resources and can go through such a traumatic experience like that and then come out and say, Nope, all these people still deserve the help.
I feel like I can provide it.
Yeah.I mean, it's unbelievable.I mean, the world is truly a better place because of people like that, that are willing to just go out there, put their lives on the line for other people just because they think it's the right thing to do.
And especially in a world where a lot of people are just kind of like in their own worlds and worried about themselves and not really to have people that are so like unbelievably selfless and will go out of their way to
Like, I mean, like we keep saying, put their life on the line just to do the right thing is just unbelievable.Like, what a wild story.And I mean, definitely go check out the podcast, 43 Days to Freedom.Yeah.Stimpack.
Stimpack.com.We'll make sure that pops up and is in the description.Yeah.But yeah, no, we thank him so much for, you know, like for him to raise awareness now is also him reliving that trauma every single time he tells that story.
So it's a, I think that's asking a lot of him, but he knows, uh, he knows like a story like that is, is the gateway to awareness.And, you know, eventually that trickle down of people who then want to get involved or want to help or want to donate.
So for him to, you know, continue telling that story, uh, is awesome.And we, we truly do wish him luck.
Yeah.Uh, for anyone out there that would like a, uh, who would like to be a guest on our show, hit us up.Our email is OPL podcast at gmail.com.
Yeah.Follow us on Instagram.Tick tock at OPL podcast.Got a bunch of clips up there, engaging in the comments with other listeners.And, uh, you can support the show at patrion.com slash OPL show.
That is all.See you guys next time.
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