Be unattached to the job.Be more attached about what you want to create.And that will keep the love alive in you in this journey.
Cassandra Freeman is an American actress and writer, best known for Inside Man, Luke Cage, Atlanta, and currently Vivian Banks in Bel Air.
Over the course of her career, Cassandra has showcased her remarkable range and talent, earning a reputation as a dynamic and versatile performer.
In addition to her successful acting career, Cassandra is a performing artist, teacher and consultant, volunteering in Africa and the US.
She teaches for non-profits, corporations and universities and is the founder of Cassandra Arts Project, empowering disadvantaged children by helping them unlock their creativity.Welcome Cassandra.
Competition is such a low form.Collaboration is the highest form of creativity.
Cassandra Freeman, welcome.It's such a pleasure to have you here on the We Audition Show today.
I'm so happy to be here.I'm so honored.I'm so honored.What a great show.What a great show.
Thank you so much.Yeah, we're honoured.We've got Aunt Viv from Bel-Air, 30 episodes in.
30 episodes, I looked up today and I can't even believe it because I feel like this show started last week and I'm like, oh my God, series regular at 30 shows in a week.How is that possible?
I know, it's crazy, right?How much the industry has changed.30 episodes in three years.Sounds crazy, right?
How do you manage, because you've got a family as well, you're a mom as well, 30 episodes.Logistically, how does this work in your life?
Yeah, it's not easy.I live in Brooklyn.You know, my son goes to school in Brooklyn.My husband works here in Brooklyn, but I shoot the show in Los Angeles.So it's a lot of going back and forth.It's a bi-coastal life.
You know, in your 20s, it sounds so sexy.Oh, I'm bi-coastal.And then when you're not 20 and you have a family, you're like, I'm bi-coastal. It's a lot, but I have a great family.I have an amazing nanny.
So, you know, they come and visit me maybe a month at a time, two weeks at a time.And when they're not there, life is simple.
When they are there, it's like, I do 14 hours on set, then I come home and I play with my son and do things, cook dinner, you know, just like everybody else.
Is that one of those moments where you just said, like when you're in your twenties, you find it so sexy by coastal, is it something you wish you'd experienced back then?Uh, or are you pleased with the journey you've had?
Um, I did it for a second in my twenties and it was so much more luxurious because, you know, but I think when the heart is involved, like half my heart is on the other side of the country, that's, that's what makes it. not luxurious.
It can be quite painful.Sometimes I miss my family so much that I call my husband.I'm like, do whatever you have to, but everyone must come now because I'll get sad and I'll miss them and anything will make me cry on set.He'll be like, how are you?
And I'm like, well, I'm okay.So yeah, I'm a mom first more than anything these days.
Where was the casting?Did you do it remotely, on Zoom, on video chat, or was it you in LA too?
Yeah, no, you know, it was an audition by tape that my manager at the time sent to me and I was like, this is probably not for me, I'm not an Aunt Viv vibe, but that's nice.
And then after three times of him asking me, I was like, okay, we'll throw something on tape.And I was in Florida at the time.And then I was asked to come in for like a talk, like, but still on Zoom, everything's on Zoom.
Then I talked to the producers of the show on Zoom.And the main question was like, do you like young people?And then after that, I flew off to Greece.Cause I was like, this role's not coming to me.
And then while I was in Greece, they were like, hey, can you do a chemistry test with some of the Uncle Phil's we're considering? uh, it was only one uncle Phil and it was Adrian.And when I saw Adrian in the room, I say this all the time.
When I saw Adrian in the room, I was like, what, this must be the losers lounge.Like why would he did you know, did you know each other before? Yeah, we did.I knew, yeah, of course I know Adrian.
He and I did a movie like six years previous called The Real MVP that Nelson George directed.It was a Lifetime movie about Kevin Durant's life.But then we had just done a pilot for Malcolm Lee called At That Age for NBC.
And you just knew it was gonna be like a pickup.You're like, it was an incredible cast.Adrian was the lead of it.I was coming in as his mistress on this show.And I remember the first day I showed up, it was Nicole.Oh God, I can't think of it.
Nicole Ari Parker was playing his wife.And I came in and I said, this is your wife?I was like, obviously I should be your wife, okay.But fine, I'll be your mistress today.So just find out. Like 90 days later, that's exactly what happens, you know.
Be wise about the words you use.
So the chemistry was there already, for sure?For that chemistry test.They didn't bother for the second one.They didn't bother.
Also, when you think about that, the chemistry between you guys having known each other as well, but how wrong we can be about what we think they might be looking for.
Because obviously, with a show like Bel Air, it has pre-existing IP in all of our hearts and minds.But the new one, you are an amazing Aunt Viv, Adrian's an amazing Uncle Phil, so it works. We're sometimes wrong.
Yeah, I think the luxury of getting older in this business might be you embracing more of who you are.And so when I saw that audition, I was so filled about who I wasn't.
And this is like the greatest shift an actor can have, or at least that I have had, is shifting away from what I'm not like to what I am like, and just amplifying that.
And it might only be 10% that I'm alike about this person, but it really is like some Buddhist idea of like what you focus on grows.
And so when I went in for Aunt Viv, I thought the only thing we have in common is that I believe she never wants to let go of her roots being from Philly.
Like, I don't think that she'd be speaking with like a Juilliard accent now that she lives in Bel-Air.And I was like, if that's the version they're going for, I don't want to do that.And that's what I thought they were going to do.
And I had all these ideas of what I thought they were going to do, what her hair was going to look like.And I was like, I can't do any of that.I'm just going to do my version and they can just move on.
So being comfortable in your space as an actor and being like, this is what I bring to the table, right?
Yeah, I think having a strong point of view, even if it's a wrong point of view, shows that you have talent and skill more than trying to bend to someone else's idea.Because people don't really know until they see it anyway.
I think that's a thing now.I think maybe in the olden days they used to be going for what they wanted on paper, and that's why we saw these stereotypes.But now, no way.
You know, people are looking to see something special, I think, and see how that will fit the jigsaw puzzle.That's what we hear a lot.
Yeah, we hear that from casting, Rich, don't we, about how casting is just looking for you bringing yourself to the role, not bringing what you think somebody wants or needs.And this is a testament to that, right?
Yeah, you know, I heard 50 Cent just say on an interview, which I thought was just like bars.And he said, you know, when you're doing a movie, you need a star.When you're doing TV, you need talent.And I was like, whoa, that's heavy.
And what he means is in terms of like what might get an audience there. or what might get the project greenlit, what might make it popular, I'm sure is what he's talking about, because a movie is so difficult.
So the bigger the star, you hope more people come.But if it's talent, and when you look at this show and so many shows on TV, there's so many shows on TV where you're like, I don't know this actor, but I love this character and I love this show.
And that's enough.And that's really true for this.I think, you know, if we had to look backwards, I would still think they'd call it one of like the other black women in Hollywood who I'm obsessed with.
And they just plug and play, like, let's put this famous person probably, this famous woman, but it could also go the opposite way, which is like, they were like, maybe let's go with someone who people aren't as familiar with, which they did with all these roles.
Talking of big stars, back in the day, you worked with Denzel and Jodie Foster, who just won an Emmy, right?On Inside Man.How was that?
I read about you had a really interesting thing when you did your audition for that.Because we're on a bit of a roller coaster, I feel.I was saying to Darren, were you in a good place when you had that audition?Tell us about how that felt.
I, you know, I just got, I don't even know if I officially even graduated from grad school.
It was a Spike Lee film and I went to NYU for grad school and everyone had bumped into Spike Lee in the elevator and begged him to come to our showings, which is, you know, the big thing that you do in front of agents, managers, casting people.
That's showcase.Showcase, thank you.I was going to call it up front.You see how far away I am from that one? And so anyway, I go into this audition to be like cop number 53 in the background.
And just before I leave, the casting director's like, before you leave, how about you take your wig off and you audition for the love interest?There's no words right now, but we could just improv something.And I was so insulted.
She thought this wig was a wig, but it was a wig.But anyway, I do the audition. And I just improv and I love to improv.Like I'm a standup, like a retired standup comedian or recovering one at best.I love improv.So we did that.
And like literally maybe a few days later, I get a call that Spike Lee wants to meet in person.And the headspace I was in during that time was like, I had already set in my mind, okay, I'm gonna have to do 100 auditions before I book anything.
So I was so unattached to booking anything.I was like, now is when I build my muscle as a professional actor.So I think that helped me.You know, they say like,
you know, the more gullible you are, the luckier you can be because it's like what you don't know.Also, my dad and grandfather just passed away maybe three months before that.So my mind also wasn't in the world of I've got to be famous.
It was just like, oh, I got to get a job.I just got out of school.I need to get a job.I should find a waiting table.So I was so pragmatic.And so even when I met Spike Lee, I was just like, this isn't gonna happen.What is man talking to me?
And I remember Spike was like, hey, don't leave town because Denzel has to approve you.And I was like, this is so crazy.Denzel Washington is not going to approve.I got on a plane like a few days later.
And when the plane landed in California, my phone rang from an unidentified number.And it was Spike Lee.And he said, hey, is it true you left town?How does man know I left town?I don't know. And I said, yes, Spike, I left town.I got to get a job, OK?
I can't just be waiting around.Let me tell you something.It blows my mind.That's the type of candor I had with, like, one of the most legendary, prolific directors of our time.I'm like, yes, Spike, I got to go get a job.
I don't have time waiting around.He's like, ah, it's OK.I'm in LA, too.You got the job.Congratulations.
He tells you directly?That's amazing.
From an unidentified number.I normally put those straight to voicemail. I reckon he's called me to about a hundred times, but I just haven't picked up.
That's why it keeps you on.And sometimes you're like rolling the dice.Like, do I answer this today?It could be the lottery.It was lottery that day.
Wow.I think, I think whatever though, he would have got through to you somehow.
It's true.Can you imagine a voicemail from Strikely?I would have kept it forever.
What's the journey been like since then?Like, I mean, Richard mentioned earlier, like the rollercoaster of acting.Have you felt like it's a rollercoaster or has it been a straight trajectory for you?How have you felt?
Who out here ever says it's been a straight trajectory?It's just liars.
That's who says that.Great.
When you've just done 30 episodes and you've got more to come, that's what you say.
I think, what a vocation, I say this all the time to be an actor.It's like, you know, you've decided to dedicate yourself to a practice, not to an outcome.And I feel like for me, the practice of acting has been like, Can I get to know myself more?
Can I like myself more?Enjoy the experience of living more?I think that has been the journey that is consistent because the jobs are not.And sometimes you can't get a job to save your life.And so it's like, what do you do in the meantime?
I feel like the best actors
Know how to take care of themselves in the meantime because I've had you know I got inside man and my life was like that was a blockbuster and I think I booked like numbers like a TV show like I did like I was a costar like I got a couple of things like that.
And then there was the writer's strike back then.And that was like 2008.And then the next thing you know, when that ended, I did a Chris Rock movie.And it was like, Chris Rock's like, oh, it must be downhill from here for you.
It's like, Denzel and now Chris Rock.That's got to be horrible. And it was a blessing to work with Chris because he was the one who was like, you know, you're really funny.You should be doing stand up.So I started to do stand up in the meantime.
And, you know, I found odd jobs.But and then I started to do plays and I came back home to New York and I did some theater here.I feel like it's
It's the most, the best entrepreneur experience anyone can imagine being an actor of like, you've got these skills.And I think to be an actor, you have the best skills.
Communication in the world of AI, communication will be more valuable than anything else.And also project management, how to build projects, how to put things together, collaboration.
So my whole life has been about the meantime and then all of a sudden getting a great job.
What kind of odd jobs did you do when, you know, you've just come off a massive film and then you said you had to do some odd jobs?
What a great question.What are some odd jobs I've done in the meantime?And I've had some interesting odd jobs.Like some are typical.I remember I worked at the W Hotel out in California at some, I was like the hostess.That was a fantastic job.
But people would come and be like, weren't you just in that movie?And I'd be like, people been saying that all night.Isn't that crazy?
But you know what?I think I worked for some company at some point where you call people up and help them to get good credit.And I realized that was not a good job for me.Okay.I'm horrible at selling people.You either want it or you don't.Okay.
Do you want this?No, thank you.Goodbye.I'm probably better today.What else am I?Of course I was a manager of restaurants.I was a waitress, hostess, manager.Yeah.But also the last time I waited tables, I got fired and I quit all at the same time.
Basically I quit, or maybe I got fired.I can't remember, cause people love me obviously, but they basically went back on their word that they were gonna give me healthcare after I helped them open up this restaurant.
And the owner was like, oh, I don't remember saying that.And I was like, you know what?Well, I quit.And he was like, no, you know, you're fired.And I was like, okay, sounds like we agree on something.
And then as I walk out the door, he's like, wait a minute, one thing, one thing. He's like, he shakes my hand.He's like, you're going to have a great career.He's like, good luck to you out there.
And it was like the great it was it was it was I felt like it was a permission slip of you're much too big to be here.You don't want this.And that happened to me in California.
I was about to enter the fashion industry and work with some huge fashion company and be like the executive assistant. And the guy was like, remember my name?And I do not remember his name.And he was like, remember my name?
But he was like, you're meant to be an actress.He's like, you're gonna be famous.He's like, I do not wanna be the one to take you off that track.And so between those two jobs, I was like, fine, I'll start a nonprofit.
And so I started a nonprofit and then I became a teacher at Fordham University, at New York Film Academy, at Pace University.I started to piece things together and it was the best thing for me to do that nonprofit.
And it was the best thing for me to become a teacher, because teaching, you start to see right away why you're not a good actor.You're like, oh, I'm doing what you're doing.Girl, don't do that.
You were teaching acting?
Yeah, I taught acting, I taught audition technique, I taught directing for the camera, I taught improv to gamers.
It's amazing because when we do that as actors, even if you're just helping your friend in an audition, sometimes you see things and I look at someone else's audition and I go, Oh, I couldn't even see that when it was my role.
But when we flip it around,
It's the greatest gift.It's such a gift.Just like even the practice of an audition.I love working.
I mean, if, if I could, with my downtime, I would do that right now, help people with their audition technique because it is... You can jump on We Audition and do that actually.
You could be a reader on We Audition. Imagine that you're on We Audition and you get Cassie.Imagine that.
I would totally do it.I would totally do it.Sign up now, y'all.We Audition.Do an audition technique class with Cassie Freeman.I love it.
Sorry, server's just gone down.It's so busy.Sorry, I've just got to fix it.
I love teaching audition technique because people don't realize how you get this opportunity to direct and produce your own five minute moment.You can do so many great things in that moment, like really dress like the part.
Think about what you do in those first five seconds and those last five seconds, but that first five seconds, you're, uh, uh, go too far, go too far.Cause people are too bored watching auditions.
That's something to just reframe that.So just for the listeners now, you said you have the opportunity to be the director and the producer of your own five minutes for your audition.So it's an opportunity.It's not a hassle to do it.
Don't get me wrong, it's a hassle.
It's a hassle.But what turns me on is when I think, oh, I'm going to kill this.I get to produce this thing.And I had an audition just recently for something where it was like some sci-fi something.And I went way too far.
And I was like, I'm going to do my hair like this.I'm going to wear this up.And I did it in a certain part of my house.And then I found props. that look like that.I felt like I created a world.
And then what I love is when I get into the mindset that this is my producing moment. I'm like, it don't get better than that.If you don't give it to me, that means you called up someone famous and you're like, she's not famous enough.
Or you changed your mind and you decided it should be male.And that happens, you know?But now when I do an audition, I do it half baked.Those are the ones that I like drive myself crazy.I'm like, why did I do that?
All the different choices I could have made.I did not take that seriously.
Well, it's because then you put your best work on that tape and you send it off.
And that, I think that's a level of confidence as an actor, when you've been acting as long as all of us have, you just go, that's what I brought to the table and I'm proud of it.And it's my best, best work for that thing at that time, you know.
Yeah, yeah, totally.So true.Also, you're also booking your next role by that audition.You know how many people look at our tapes?So many people look at this tape.And they're not just working on this job.Everybody at that table has multiple jobs.
So really, you're auditioning for one job, but you're potentially auditioning in between five and 20 other projects.And if you're great, people will be like, oh my God, mental no.Reach back out to this woman when my project gets greenlit.
And my career is built on that.
Well, let's let's back up a second for anyone that's not at the level that you're at.What do you mean there's so many people looking at those tapes?Who are the types of people looking at audition tapes?
So many ways to look at this.But I think about there's a show called Single Ladies, and I'll do for three years for a role on that show.And I kept not getting cast, to the point that the casting director decided not to bring me in anymore.
And when he did that, is when one of the producers was like, what are you talking about?This is the role for Cassandra Freeman.Where's the Cassandra Freeman girl?And he's like, oh, yeah.
Now just think, they didn't want me for three years, but they remembered me when this role came up.But not only that, that producer had a movie that she was gonna do in three years. And that movie, I got to be the lead in because of that project.
Also, she would tell everybody, I saw her for years for this audition, but I also saw her when she did a show off Broadway.And I was like, who is this?Yep, you see, it gets the thumbs up.And then I look at my show, Bel Air.
You're auditioning for casting.OK, well, casting is Vicky Thomas, one of the biggest casting directors in Hollywood, who also cast me in that Chris Rock movie at the beginning of my career.
She cast me in Roots as well.
Yeah, then you have Carla waddles, who is the show run up against what Carla waddles was the lead writer, or maybe the showrunner of the pilot that me and Adrian did that didn't get picked up.
And then you have whatever writer and director looking at that tape too.One of those writers right now just got picked up to do a whole series that's on her own.She's gonna be the showrunner for that.
Like, do you know how many people are looking at this tape?Not, and you're not even thinking about when it gets so high that it goes to the executives at Universal.
And so when the executives at Universal saw my audition for Aunt Viv, they were like, wait a minute, that's the girl who we loved who did that other show, Enemy Within. you are making fans or you're not making fans when you send out these tapes.
That's the soundbite right there.You're making fans and not making fans.Wow.Yeah.What's it like to be famous, Cassie? Do you get stopped on the street?You must do.
You must get, I mean, I know, I know a lot of your Bel-Air family, so I'm out with, you know, Adrian or with Jimmy.I'm like, I'm like the adopted ginger stepchild.Yeah.
But, but now when I'm out with some of your castmates, you know, they're getting stopped and people showing so much love for Bel-Air.Do you get that happening in New York?And how's that feel?
I mean, I like to be cool and be like, I don't, because Aunt Viv has such a distinctive look, and I don't really look like Aunt Viv.
I could be standing right next to Ali, who plays Carlton, and they'll be like, excuse me, will you hold our camera and take a picture? And I'll be like, you know, I'm his mom.They're like, oh, you must be proud of him.Take a picture.
But at the same time, people do stop me.But it's so interesting the way people stop you when it comes to TV and this character.People get like so emotional about like what they think the show means.Like, what does it feel like to be famous?
It's like, you know, constantly getting a lot of love from strangers.And, you know, that's not so bad at all. But you know, the funny thing is you get the energy of the role that you're playing.
So if I was playing someone evil, people are like, listen, I did not.But this role is so loving.People are so kind.But the thing about fame, and no one believes it until they're in it.Like you don't change, the people around you change.
So it's like, I don't wake up and feel any different. It's what changes are how people treat you is what's so different.
Now, when people treat you different, you can either decide to act the way they've treated you, like I'm important now, or you can just stay humble and be like, oh, that's kind, but I know this career is about highs and lows and it's high right now and I'm not about to get high on someone else's supply when they have no idea what the life of an actor really is.
And do people treat you differently in a negative way as well?Like do you get people that are trying to hit you up for say, oh, you know, get me on the show or introduce me to your agent or things like that?
Or is that, does that happen a lot differently now?
It does.You know, people will hit me up and be like, I got this project.Can you pass this on?Can you pass this on?There's a lot more, you know, takers.So, but what I say to that is, A, the people I work with are like Darren.Darren is a friend.
Whatever Darren is up to, I'm like, yeah, I'm down.People work laterally.It's not so helpful to try to be like, oh, you have more than me, or I see you might have.Trying to go up isn't as such a good tactical move as going sideways.
Because if you have good taste, everyone in your group is probably rising at the same time.So might as well, you know, authentically ride that wave.Not to say if you, listen, opportunity comes, opportunity comes.
But I find like the people who are amazing are my friends and they're being nominated for Oscars and they're being nominated for Emmys.And they're winning Emmys and gold and gold.But guess what?We all started at the bottom and we're all rising.
So what I'd say to that, but in perspective, is if you do get the opportunity to meet someone who you feel like is, you know, hierarchical, you know, their hierarchy is higher than you, then think about what you can offer them before you ask to take something.
And so someone just called me up and said, oh, I've got this great opportunity to be in the same room with so-and-so, and I want them to come on as a producer.I was like, first of all, start the sentence off with them.
Instead of being like, hey, can you help me?Be like, say, I really loved your last thing, and say, be specific why you liked that last thing, and say, hey, I don't know if you're interested, and then say what opportunities you have to offer them.
So I said, don't you have someone, Netflix, say, hey, we've already been talking to Netflix.They say they want to do this project.Do you know Susan Salison?She's the lead executive over at Netflix.That person might be like, oh, yeah, I love Susan.
Well, Susan said she loves us, but we've just been looking for the right producer, and it's crazy to see you here, but if you're not interested, feel no kind of way, but we've already started.
Like, talk about what you have going for you, and then the other person will be like, oh, that's one reason why I started my company Creatricity, because
We all have things that we're trying to get off the ground, and it gets so exhausting to talk to people who have nothing to offer you.But it gets so exciting when you talk to people who are like, listen, I got this, this, this in my back pocket.
And you're like, wait, what?I got this and this.OK, we can make it creative, baby.Let's go.
Tell us more about Creaticity.
If you'd like to join the We Audition community, go to weaudition.com slash show to get 25% off. Now back to the show.
Yeah, tell us about how Creatricity works and how the listeners can get involved or support you on that.
Creatricity are for vetted and up-and-coming members of the entertainment industry.Vetted, I say vetted meaning you have done things to already prove yourself in this industry as a professional.
As an actor, writer, director, producer, as an executive, as a visual artist, as hair, makeup, you know, you're in the ecosystem.
The crew people as well, not just artistic side, all sorts, you know.
That's right, cinematographers, the photographers, the grips, like people who are in it.And basically you sign up and we have these events that happen yearly, you know, quarterly.Like we just had an event last night at Dumbo House.
It was called Pop Views, where we saw like an old episode, like the season finale of my show.But it was just a great reason for people to come together, watch a TV show together, and then you drink it and hang out at a fun atmosphere.
Or we'll do something bigger where we did an event last year at SoFi.
And it was like a collaboration with Modern Living, which is a great magazine conglomerate that, you know, does everything from, you know, LA Confidential, you know, all those magazines.And we had like the president of Mattel on the stage.
That was great.It was such a great event.
So many amazing minds like entrepreneurs like we put together. intentional programming for vetted members of the entertainment industry to gain resources, to make connections, and people have closed deals in this room.
People have come up to me and said, you know, I closed a six-figure deal because I came to that event, or I met an executive at Hulu, or I met someone and they allowed us to use their space for this ongoing activation.
So you just, I love that because I'm like, we all are up to so many things.I want to see people win.Like there's no reason to be in competition.Competition is such a low form.Collaboration is the highest form of creativity.
Yeah.Whenever I get the chance to get on a mic at any of our events that we audition, one of the things I always leave people with is go around the room, meet somebody you don't know and ask them, how can I help you?
because the people that just want to take is so obvious.And that's, that's that kind of like false networking we get in this industry where people go to these networking events.
And I always say, if you, if you going to somewhere to deliberately network, you can pretty much be sure that the people you need to network with are going to be far away from that place.
That's exactly right.It's a repellent.It's a repellent.You know, who you are is like a lighthouse, and so the right people will always come find you because you radiate that energy.That's not even woo-woo, it's just factual.
And I see that all the time at Creatricity, and thankfully, That's why I say it's vetted because the people who you meet, you're just like, I love this person just to be a friend.
Like, I don't even know if I can help them, they can help me, but these are just great people.I like to think if you bump into good people enough, you'll create rapport and create things whether today or tomorrow.
And the other part of Creatricity is I just did it because There's so many people of color and so many black women and I happen to be black in this life.And I think it's so interesting how people might ignore me.And I'm like, it's so funny.
The people you don't pay attention to might be Clark Kent, but actually Superman.Like they have an entire cape, they have a net work and net worth, and you're not paying attention to them because they don't fit your idea.Like you are missing out.
So Creatricity allows people like a new way to create rapport with people that you might not normally bump into.
And so we're intentional that it's just like this beautiful broad strokes of different parts of the industry and different types of people.
And so there's an app as well, isn't there?You can, you can meet each other on the app and connect and collaborate as well.
Yeah, exactly.You can connect and collaborate on there.And if you're a member of Creatricity, we can also help facilitate like warm intros.So you're up to something and we're like, Oh yeah, yeah.
We'd love to introduce you to so-and-so because we know so personally, so many of our members and what they're up to that we know like within two seconds, Oh my God, you know what you're up to.You got to talk to so-and-so.
Collaboration.Amazing. Yeah.
Well, you know, I want to dispel this myth in the industry about nepotism because... Wait, wait, wait.
One second.I got to put the damn phone in.Nobody can touch it.
Let's talk about the art.This is a nice piece of art.
Oh, that's a piece of art that I created.You did this?Yeah.
Yeah.That is a Cassandra Freeman original right there, everybody.You're welcome.
That's what I do in my downtime, people.
I paint.Sorry, downtime?You have downtime?On the aeroplane?I do.You go up there in first class, you're doing it while you're flying?
Oh my God, what a genius idea.I'm like, everyone see my boobs right now.Okay guys, I'm going to fasten this one more time.This show is hot.It's hot.
I was going to say the, the downloads just went up.
They're going to be like, what is this new episode about?She gets naked?What happened?
Oh, now we've got to put the E, Cassandra, come on!
Yes, I paint on my own time.Instead of bringing me flowers, bring me canvases.Instead of bringing me chocolates, bring me paints.
That's my love language.I was just going back before we went off on the art angle.I wanted to dispel this myth of nepotism because a lot of actors feel like the business is nepotistic.
You hear that word going around and sometimes when you really study something, it's not about just knowing people and them hooking each other up.It's the people that know each other, know that their quality is good.
That's why the same people work together again and again.And you do see that, that cream rise, you know, that's certainly what I find in the industry, the long run part of it, even, even looking at your Bel Air family.
You know, I already know Jeffrey for many, many years.He's been an amazing actor for years.Adrian, your uncle Phil, before he's uncle Phil, he was, he used to help me with my self tapes in Vancouver.He'd read opposite me for my auditions.
And it's just, you see these people just coming up and then they come together.And that, that one family there on TV now is, you know, an example of just, a lot of amazing, hardworking, excellent actors.
Consistency.Just being consistent, dedicated, keep showing up, keep pressing reset, pretend like it's the first day.I think also to go back to what you're saying is nepotism, yes, but this thing of friendships and relationships, you know,
The reason I created Creatricity because in the industry, when you finally get the green light, when the script is finally written, you don't have a lot of time to fill those roles.And when I say roles, I mean above the line and below the line.
And so the reason why it's hard to get into the industry is because you don't. not only have time, it's so costly if you put the wrong person into such a valuable position.And you don't know what will tank a show, a movie.
And so you're like, listen, I've worked with, you know, you look at people who are the money people for the show, like the line producer, these people, have worked with the same people for 15, 20 years.
They can guarantee that person's going to deliver.So they get it.We had it yesterday with Julia when we were talking.Yeah.
Over and over again.It's about guaranteed.Yeah.It's about guaranteed.And so I, and you look at movies and you look at like, oh my God, these actors are together again.Oh my God.These people always, oh my God.
They just, they've proven themselves that I can trust that I'm going to get what I need from this person.
That's all it is.What are some things that new actors can do to be ready for a show if they're, if they are less experienced?Like you must've have a lot of experience of working with the co-stars and guest stars that pop in for an episode.
Do you see certain people really excel at that and others fail or not fail, but do less good because they're underprepared?
Yeah.You know, first I'd say if you're taking acting classes, pay attention to the person you're taking acting classes from and don't just go on, well, you know, so many of the students here have been cast in roles.
What kind of roles have they been cast in?And then literally look at these people's work.There was someone who was on our show and she was a co-star, but it was a great co-star.And she was being so robotic.
And I don't do this often, but every now and then I'll say, I'll give like, some type of encouragement.I don't even say a note, because I don't want someone to feel like I'm saying, listen, don't do X, Y, Z. A don't note don't help nobody.
Don't tell me don't.Tell me what I can do.And so I remember I told this woman, I said, oh my God, you know what, I love what you're doing.On action, you just, you have your own little business.Oh my, let me tell you, do that for the whole scene.
And she's like, what?I said, She's like, but I was taught when you're a co-star, you're meant to be invisible.I said, oh my God, no, my friend, you are meant to be a fully formed 3D, 5D.I want you to be so specific about who you are.
If you don't have an idea, then just be you.What's your name, Chelsea?Girl, be Chelsea in this situation right now for us, because if you,
Whoever told you to fade away in the background is someone who can't be successful, because no show casts co-stars to be invisible.
If you're there to say, I'm sorry, he said he can't come out and see you right now, Vivian Banks, but he said to leave a note.Have a perspective.Don't be like, he said. He can't see you right now.And I was like, no, honey, you're here to make fans.
Make people be like, who is she?I want her to come back.But I say this actors all the time.If you're going to be a co-star, like really take it on.Pretend like you're a co-star.You are a guest star.Pretend like you're on three episodes.
You know, it's always fun to play the game of as if.As if.And I used to do this all the time when I was an actor too.And I mean, still, I'm always like,
They had me coming for this role, but really, they're going to ask me to stay on for many episodes.Like, they're just going to so fall in love with me.Well, work your way backwards.Why would they offer that to you?
And I've had friends this has happened to.
Well, you just said you had that happen to Inside Man.You were going to be a police officer and then you turned out to be the love interest.That's the same thing, right?
Look at me.I have another example.I have a friend named Cornelia Smith.He went on an episode of Scandal.Yeah, one episode.And I remember calling up saying, sir, This episode is genius.They'd be dumb not to offer you to stay there forever.
He's like, can I tell you?Can I tell you?Shonda Rhimes invites me down to her office.Next thing you know, they give me a series regular.I mean, like, it happens.It's hard to find great actors.It's hard to find anything great.
So when you are great, people are like, oh, what do we do to keep this person?Or we got to circle them for something else down the road.That happened to me on that show with Tom Selleck. What is it called?
I only know friends.That's all I know.
Tom Selleck.Blue Bloods.Blue Bloods.That happened to me on Blue Bloods.I had like one episode on there and it was so great.I came back and I remember Tom Selleck was like, kid, He was like, kid, you aren't this kid.
He's like, whew, that last episode, people were like, we gotta bring her back.And I was like, oh.And then after that, they tried to bring me back again.
I'm trying to think, did I come back for a third time or was it the third time that I booked Bel Air and I couldn't come back?But I remember when I came back that second time, Tom Selleck was like, listen, he's like, you don't have your own show yet?
You're gonna get your own show.Just think, like, it's Tom Selleck.And listen, I kept telling Tom, like, Tom, you should be writing books.Like, how is it every TV show you have done has stayed on? for so many years.
There's no one hit wonders in Tom Selleck's career.It's like consistent hits.And he told me, you know what it's about, Cassie?He said, writers and show writers get wrong about what a show's about.
He's like, all it's about is, do I want to come back and watch the show today to see what happened to Tommy? that drinking problem.I hope Robbie really finds that girl and falls in love with her and do the right thing.
People don't leave thinking about big drama.They just think about one character and do I care about what happens to them?And he's like, that's my job here.And he's like, what you did when you came on here?
He's like, everyone was like, my God, what happened to that woman?Is she okay?Did she move on?He's like, that is the job.
I wrote that down because I think that is a really good perspective.As actors, as a producer, as a, you know, someone with show running something, that's what they want.You're right.And when you say it out loud, it's so clear.
more interested in like the bang, bang, bang, like the special effects of the show.It doesn't matter what genre you're doing, whether it's sci-fi, whether it's an action movie.And let me tell you who really knows that too, my friend, Tom Cruise.
Okay, whatever Tom Cruise movie you love, go and watch his interviews when he's pitching, when he's out there selling the movie and he's sitting down on the couches and he's doing interviews for the movie.
What he says, if you are a scientist and you're like really trying to listen to like, why is this man successful?Success leaves breadcrumbs and so does failure.And his breadcrumbs of success are so clear.He is interested in the human story.
He is interested in existential big questions about humanity. why do people do the things they do?He's always trying to answer some big existential question.I watched Vanilla Sky a few months ago.
Then go look at the interviews around that time of him and his castmates.And he talked about how that's really based on some Spanish movie and how he loved the questions that it was asking.And when they were
doing the script, he kept saying, no, no, no, we got to make sure we focus on this one thing.He was just trying to get the script right.And so when you watch Vanilla Sky, you could have gotten lost in what the trick that movie is.
But instead you're like, oh, life, choices, love.And he gets that even in Mission Impossible.He gets it in every movie.
There's that other quote that comes to mind.I think Steve Martin talks about, it's much more simple, about be so good they can't ignore you.
Be so good they can't ignore you.That's a good one.Yeah.
Because a lot of, a lot of actors on the journey up, we try and focus on getting the next job.We're like, Oh, if only I could get that better agent.
And if only I could get that job, then I can show the world how good I am versus just be good, be good, whatever you're doing. Two things.That's in life as well.Be a good person, be good out there in the world.
If you're doing whatever you're doing outside that, whether it be your part-time job or whether it's you're showing up to your friend's event or you're supporting creativity or whatever, be good at it.Be good at what you're showing up to.
How you do one thing is the insight and how you do a lot of things is what they say.But I also think there's a magic in
You know, when you're not working, it's such an exciting time because when you're waiting for the next job, you could sit there and be like, oh, where's the next job?Or you can start thinking about what do you want your next job to feel like?
Like, what do you want it to look like?Like, what kind of character do you want to play next?And really think about it.My career. When I look backwards, every time the role comes, it's like I called it in.
Aunt Viv came because I called up my people one day and I said, don't send me out for any more like, oh, life is hard as a Black woman.I said, I can't handle it.I don't want to do it no more.I said, can't I just play someone who's
who dresses beautiful and she's dealing with like big life questions.And then this role came in and it's like, great, let's, okay, maybe this is it.Cause that's what I was in the mood to play.
And I remember when single ladies came around, every time I was out with my girlfriends, I was single and I was like, guys, I feel like I should be like in a sex in the city sort of show.
I just want to, I feel like I should be in a show where I'm like, That show came in, I feel like, but anyway, Viv came in because of that, but I also wrote a whole script.
I wrote a movie, and the lead character was an artist, and she was dealing with all these things.And let me tell you, the first season of Bel-Air sounds like my script.It's crazy.The Michael Ealy character is straight up in this script.Like, crazy.
It's like, I was calling, it's like an incantation.I just think also, you get to utilize your agent and manager as a great tool and asset, as a great executive assistant to your career.
Hey guys, I've decided these are the types of roles that we should be focused on.So then when they come, you're like, boom, that's it.Boom, that's it.I just booked something else just recently, a new show with Elizabeth Banks called Better Sister.
And I was like, I feel like I wanna just do something that's like a different energy away from I'm Viv that feels like X, Y, Z. And then this role showed him, they're like, here's X, Y, Z, and boom, I booked it.And I was like,
You mentioned a few times, do you sort of believe in the law of attraction and how that works?
Yeah, I believe that, you know, we spend so much time thinking it's about your brain when it's really like it's the game of hot and cold.It's the game of like, what do you feel?
Like, oh, I feel like things are drawing me in this way for the world keeps making me think about this one thing. You know, that's how I live my life.I feel like it's a very spirit.That's why I say it's a vocation.
Like, if you're a pastor, if you're a preacher, that is a vocation.You've, like, given your life.Rick Rubin says, you know, whatever you do, imagine that you're putting it on the altar to God.Like, you're like, this is my art here.
I give it up to you.I feel that way about this journey as an actor.I don't think it's on accident, the roles that actors play.I think it's like a part of your DNA that wants to be expressed in some way.
shadow part of you that you want to work things through, whether it's for you or for society.
Do you think things have changed though?Thinking about the way that you've worked over the years and you've done series regulars before, do you think the way things are produced has made it easy to take art and put it on an altar?
Or do you think it's made in a different way now and it's done differently?It's not a leading question.Do you think things have changed in the last 20 years of being on TV and being an actor?
Yeah, I think the industry from the inception from a hundred years ago constantly keeps changing and it keeps evolving.And so we're just in the new evolution.Like you, if you, Gina Davis has a great documentary.
It's about, it's a little bit about the history of film and it's so interesting, but it's through the lens of gender parity.But she talks about at the beginning of Hollywood, when it was just the talkies,
women were mostly the directors during that time.When it was silent screen, it was mostly women who were the directors.
Women got kicked out once sound was invented because you needed to have capital for that type of invention and you needed capital for a sound studio.Like if you look at those black and white silent movies, they could have been anywhere.
You don't need sound.And so when They invented sound, and you needed all this technical ability, and you needed more money.They created the DGA, and when the DGA formed, they got rid of every woman but one.
That's new news to me.And that's why we call it a soundstage.I didn't even think we call it a soundstage now, because I suppose it's a big deal when things need to be quiet.
It's so true.And so right now we're going through a lot of changes and what I keep thinking is, oh, artists have constantly adapted to what opportunities are there and what opportunities have gone away.
And so a lot of new opportunities, whether you want to be on stage film, tv, tiktok, instagram, patreon, kickstarter, like pick what you want to do on the street, on the corner, do it.
Go make your own stuff for sure.
Go make your own stuff and you'll figure out how the money will come.You'll figure out a way to do it.Artists always do.There's this quote and I have to look it up about you know If you can't fly, then run.If you can't run, then walk.
If you can't walk, then crawl.Just do something.I feel like that's true for actors.If you can't act on TV and film, then do it on YouTube.If you can't do it on YouTube, do it on Instagram.If you can't do it on Instagram, do it on TikTok.
If you can't do it on TikTok, do it at the theater down the street.If you can't do it there, find a corner on the street.It will always find a way to get out of you.
Well, hearing you say that, I mean, it's, it's amazing.We have an abundance of avenues now.I think sometimes the actor narrative, I mean, your chat is so positive and it's so empowering.
Sometimes the actor chat can be negative and depressing in the sense that, oh, you know, there's more competition, there's less roles.No, there's more avenues though.We're in an unprecedented time even now.I mean, I know the TV
where Peak TV is kind of on its descent a little bit.But we've been through a time where there's just so many more stories, so many more opportunities.But like you say, the avenues of digital, people back then didn't have that.
It was really one little tiny funnel.And now we have all these avenues.
Look at this podcast, that we can do this.I can be in New York, you can be in LA, that you can do this.And also it's like, We can't get distracted thinking, oh, if I had 2 million followers, then things would be different.
You don't need 2 million followers.You just need a few people who believe in you.So you need a few people to maybe collaborate with, great.Or maybe you just need one person.You only need one person to think you're talented.
And you'd be like, great, what else can I do for you?And then it just grows.I think we overcomplicate what success is. can be.And for me, you know, success is peace and success is am I doing all the things I've been dreaming about?
And so I look at every birthday as an opportunity to look at my bucket list.And that doesn't mean I don't think about money.
But I find that when I'm focused on like what's the next thing that turns me on it makes me excited that I figure out like how can I?Create a way so money can be attached to that or how can I put other people with me?
So it's not just a burden on my back And so I'm that's why I love that.I picked this career because it keeps me imaginative and sometimes it's stressful and And it can feel like you can't breathe.
And I remember moments like that when I was so not making money.And I'm like, where's the next dollar?And so I get really depressed.And then after the depression leaves, and I'm like, okay, time to get active.
Okay, imagine if today was my last day to create something, what would it be?
I think some people don't do stuff because they feel like I've been on a big show and I need 10 crew or 50 crew.And so when I produce something, not me personally, but maybe I'm actually doing this a little bit myself.
You know, you think you need a big crew, so then you need money, so you need budget.So you don't do it because you don't want to do it well, which means it doesn't happen, which means actually you don't do anything at all.
Whereas you could do something with one or two people with your friend and it could be awesome.It could be the best thing you've ever done.And you're very inspiring in the way you put it forward.
And for our listeners, I think it's fantastic the way you put that energy across.
I also think it's really nice that you mentioned money in that as well, because I, you know, I think there is a narrative of art for art's sake, but also when you're a professional, it's okay to think about what is my value and how can I attach money to that?
And that is what we do to elevate things as well.But for actors that are in between work as well, I mean, one of the things I see that changes people is being comfortable.
When you are comfortable, and if that is from your part-time job or your other avenue, when you are comfortable, you just do better work.This, this whole starving artist narrative doesn't exist anymore.
If you're unhealthy, if you're tired, if you're annoyed and frustrated, you might be good for the Withnail character in Withnail Night, but that's so far away from, from current, you know, current life.
It's so true.Put your gas mask on first.
It's noble to have a day job.It's noble.You have to eat.You have to have peace.Listen, when that writer's strike was happening, I told myself, listen, if my bank account going to figure out how to become a bartender.I'm gonna call up a friend.
I was like, what are the other things I can do in the meantime to have something come in so that way money's just not going out one way?And I started to look at it like, oh, how fun that'll be.And then I get to make it as like,
I mean, I think Coleman Domingo, who is an amazing actor, was like a bartender for years.And like, while he was bartending, he was writing his script.And while he was writing his script, when it was finally done, then he got to do his one-man show.
It's like, honey, if I have to do a one-man, and believe me, I'm going to do a stand-up special soon.That's the next thing.I have so many big things on my to-do board.But I'm like, there's so many things to do.
And if you need a job in the meantime so it can fund your next thing, no matter what scale it's on, Like, don't you want people to know that you're still out here?But also, if you don't exercise it, it can atrophy and you can get bitter.
And I just I try to mind to make sure I'm never bitter or jealous.And it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.But when it happens, I think, oh, my God, I'm jealous.Why am I jealous?What do they have over there?Oh, You know what it is?
Cause they're doing something that I want to do.So then you should go do it, but let's celebrate this person.Oh my God.And like the level of jealousy, you have to flip it and find that level of congratulations to a thank you.Thank you.
Jealousy is meant to be like a roadmap to wake you up to things that you still want to do to not leave on the, you know, not to leave on the table.Like no, do all the things on the table.
And when bitterness shows up, same thing, like bitterness comes from a place of entitlement. Like, why do you think you're entitled to something?Why do you think you should have a privilege to something?Maybe you didn't work hard enough.
Maybe you need to find another way to do it.Maybe all the doors are closed because there's one special door that's just for you that will open up so many opportunities.And so if I look backwards, there's so many jobs I didn't get.
But if I'd gotten certain jobs, I don't think Aunt Viv would have ever come to me.And I'm so privilege to have such an opportunity like Viv, because she gets to do so many things that I'm passionate about in an artistic way.
So like, you know, that's the only way to look at it.
We're talking and looking backwards.Let's close out the show with a piece of advice that you would have given the younger Cassie before her first big job.
So those two weeks before that first big job happened.
That was the end of your training, right?
I mean, I would actually be like, what would I tell myself?Because the beginning or when it was really hard, I guess the thing I would say is be unattached to the job, be more attached about what you want to create.
And that will keep the love alive in you in this journey.And then that way, you're never desperate.You're never in need.I think that's what I would tell myself.
It's beautiful. Thank you so much for joining us today.Thank you, Cassie.
Thank you for creating a space for actors to like look at their career as something that's not frivolous and instead as something that can be inspiring and achievable.And that is a craft.And I'm so happy this show exists for that space.
And that's why I was so happy and honored to come on today.
Thank you.And obviously we can catch up with you on television and all those things.And guys, check out Creatricity.We're going to leave some links in the show notes for you.
So you can check out what they're doing over at Creatricity as well, and your podcast as well.So just, we're so grateful to have you on.Thanks.
Thanks for listening to The We Audition Show.
Your hosts were Darren Darmborough and me, Richard Cambridge, from We Audition, the leading professional actors community where you can connect, learn, elevate your career, and always get a self-tape reader on demand.We hope you enjoyed this episode.
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