Welcome to ClickFunnels Radio, the podcast that brings you the latest strategies, insights, and success stories from online marketers just like you who utilize funnels to grow their business.
Our mission is simple, to help you unleash the true potential of your online business by harnessing the power of funnels.
Join us every week as we bring you exclusive interviews and thought-provoking discussions that will revolutionize the way you approach online marketing.Here are your hosts, Chris Cameron and Ben Harris.
All right, everybody, welcome back to another episode of ClickFunnels Radio.
This is a very, very, very special guest that we're lucky to have here today and someone who I've been a fan of for years, kind of fanboyed a little bit internally the first time we got to meet, but now lucky enough to call a friend.
But it's somebody, if you're in our space, if you studied a lot of materials or if you don't live under a rock, you should be very familiar with his work.
I would be bold in saying one of the best, if not the best, copywriters walking on planet Earth right now.But very happy to welcome Stephan Georgi to the podcast.Stephan, what's up, man?
What's up, man?Thanks for having me, Ben.
Of course, of course.Where are you at right now?Where are you calling in from?
I'm calling in from Santa Monica in L.A., but I live in Miami.
Very nice.So masterminds, business, what's brought you out to the West Coast?
In this case, it's just for a friend who's going through some health challenges, and I wanted to just be able to come out and support him.But he's doing well.He went to the hospital and had sort of like an emergency surgery.
And so I was out for that, went back home, and then came back out for a few days to just see how he's recovering.But he's doing well.
That's awesome.I'm sure they definitely appreciate you doing that.And even as a testament to your skill set knowledge, the work life that gives you the flexibility, right, to kind of leave on a whim, go do things like that.
And I've heard countless stories of people who've always talked about, you know, wanting to create that freedom.So, you know, God forbid you can do, you know, things like that at the drop of a hat.So that's really awesome to hear.
Ben, let me actually speak to that really quick, because it is something I was thinking about a lot when I, because the first time I came out, it was for nine days.And I also have a, you know, I'm married, I have a six and a half year old daughter.
And so part of it is to support a family as well, where my wife was like, yep, go out for as long as you need to, like, I got this, you focus on helping your friend.
People talk about that laptop lifestyle, and a lot of people get into this online kind of digital marketing space, e-commerce, whatever, for visions of being on a beach, like, you know, doing a couple hours of work.
And it's sort of not that way a lot of the time, but it is incredible when something like this comes up.
And we had so many other friends who... This is a friend I've known since elementary school, and we have like a group of friends we're still in touch with.And they were like,
Some of them were kind of like jealous, you know, because like, man, like it's so nice that you can just do this.And and so that is just a powerful thing to think about with what we're doing and the freedom it does give.Right.
It really made me appreciate it because it's sort of like on the beach.Like when you go on vacation, you want to actually just be on vacation.So the idea of like, oh, I can work on vacation ends up actually being kind of stressful because you're sort
Which one am I doing here?But the fact that you can do things like that, I just wanted to zoom in on that because that's when you really do appreciate the sort of laptop lifestyle, so to speak.
Yeah, definitely.It's it's much more and deeper than working on the beach.You know, the ability to help friends and to be there supporting.It's a that's fulfilling.So I appreciate you sharing that with us, too.
And for you to get to that point, it didn't happen overnight.Right.And even if you're a beginner at something, you probably suck at it.You know, maybe you are very natural and you could write copy from the get go.But I'd be curious in learning.
How did you stumble into this online world by design, by luck?Unpack that for us.
Yeah, 100%.So in 2011, let's go 2010, I graduated college from a kind of no name school, though I love it called the University of West Florida as a philosophy major.And I'm familiar.Yeah, yeah, yeah, went around and kind of
you know, my dad called me an unguided missile because I just sort of would bounce around to things, couldn't hold down jobs for very long.And then I got a job at an outdoor school in Marble Falls, Texas, which means it was essentially outdoor ed.
I was, you know, kids from all over the state of Texas would come to this kind of nature preserve slash summer camp during the summer, and we teach them about nature.And that was in a double-wide trailer.
I was making $200 a week, but I got to eat pre-camp food.And I was really happy, right?And then my dad got diagnosed with stage four cancer.Very suddenly, I left there to go back and be home with him.He passed in October of 2011.And then in December,
of 2011, I went to Las Vegas to kind of blow off steam.And I was in a poker room at Caesars Palace, which was it was a much bigger poker room at that time.
And a girl walked in who I thought was very, like attractive, and I joked to our table right away, oh, I hope that she gets seated at our table.
And for anyone who's ever played poker at a casino, you don't just walk in and sit down at a table, you see a host, you tell the host which game you want to play, they assign you to a table and there was
like a hundred tables, but she did get seated at our table.And I wanted to talk to her.I, you know, was immediately attracted to her.And, um, eventually somebody asked her what she did for a living.And she said, I'm a writer.
And I'm, I was someone who always liked reading and writing.So I said, Oh, Hey, what kind of writer?She said, I'm a copywriter.And I was like, wow, that's so amazing.
And then with my iPhone one under the table, I Googled or Safari or whatever was a copywriter.Right.Because I had, I had no idea.And, um, And that was the first time I ever heard of the term copywriting.
And to keep it pretty quick, like 2012, so February, a few months later, I took a job in South Florida.She came down to visit.And at the end of the trip, I said, I don't want you to leave.So she just moved in with me.That's now my wife.
Married for five years, we have a six and a half year old daughter.And yeah, pretty early on at that job, I took the same pattern.I was doing well.I never got fired.I would quit.Some people would get fired a lot when they have these stories.
I would always be like, no, don't don't don't quit.Like we have you on this trajectory.Like in two years, you could be doing this.But I two years always seemed like such a long timeline.And I always wanted to move very quickly.And
So one day I came home and I was, you know, I'd make $200 a day in this sales job, which was not bad at all, especially at that time.But, you know, she'd be in her underwear drinking a beer and she made $800 or $1,000 writing copy.
And so, you know, I'm like, I'm going to try this.And so I put something on a website called Warrior Forum, which was a forum for internet marketers.And it was kind of my first sales letter, which was selling my own services.
And I woke up the next day, I was charging $149 for a sales letter.And I woke up the next day and had $298 in my PayPal account.And I was just instantly hooked.Because there's that belief chasm, right?There's that
you sort of people will they actually pay me like right and the first time you actually do get paid.It's everything.Everything else is academic.And then when it happens in reality, you're just I don't know.For me, I was hooked.
And so, you know, we can continue from there.But that was really the introduction to this road.
That's awesome.And what a cool love story as well.Yeah.You guys still play a lot of poker or was that just a hobby or just spur of the moment type of thing?
We both like poker a lot.OK.With, you know, a young kid, we we don't get the chance to play as often.
I think that when, you know, our kid or if we have multiple kids still on the table are kind of older or, you know, out of the house when, you know, I'd like to play more, but not as much now.She plays online sometimes.She's she's good.
Even a month or two ago, she started just playing a bunch of online tournaments.And she was like, made a good amount of money and I was kind of like, maybe you should just keep doing this.She's a very good player.
Super cool.It's funny you say that, too, of having that belief.Pattern shattered or something, and I remember, you know, when I got to the ClickFunnels world, actually, my first thing was selling on Amazon, and this was, you know, 2015.
It was much easier than it probably is now.I have no idea, but it was that
That whole thing of you know money being on a screen of a stranger who I don't know buying something and it's Deposited into my bank account that I can then use you know the girl was dating at the time just never believed of like I mean It's not real money.
Yeah, it's like it's just I'm like no.It's like pretty real like you could use it to buy stuff But it's always that funny.
I don't know like of getting something I'd someone I don't even know is now you know paying you to write a sales letter and when you started down this copywriting route
Did did you fall into a certain vertical or category or were you trying to take anything and everything like I'm getting started.So money's money.
Yeah, no, it's definitely money is money at the beginning.I didn't even. fully specialized in copywriting.That was what I liked.But I went on to Elance, which is now Upwork.And I was just taking everything.So I did SEO.
I built websites using WordPress.We did market research.I wrote a couple people's college term papers for them, which is morally dubious.
But at the time, it was like some trust fund kid would be like, I'll pay you $1,000 to write my senior thesis on art history.And I'm like, all right. Yeah, done.Right.And it was anything I could do to pay the bills.
And I will say, I think for those listening, and obviously you guys have people in all stages of the journey, people who are crushing it, people who are early on.
I personally think from a service provider standpoint, obviously it's different as a business owner where you kind of want to be niched down and focus in specific, but as a you're still a business owner as a service provider.
But if you're going to be a service provider, then I think exposure to a lot of things is really valuable.Versus a lot of people come to me and they feel like I got to find my niche, I got to find my niche.
And it's like, it'll kind of happen naturally it did for me.But I'm really grateful for that.Because I got to see inside a lot of businesses, I got to see the different components of marketing and you know, everything from
again, if a website on the tech side, if a website is working, and you know, what leads to conversions and all these sorts of, of insights.
And I did stuff in cybersecurity, I did stuff in health, I did stuff in like, a 3PL logistics company that was one of the largest, the white glove third party, but I wrote all this website content for them.
And I got to like learn about so many industries and businesses.And I think that was and continues to be extremely valuable.And, you know, as we'll get into, I've transitioned into running a lot of my own businesses and scaling them.
And I think that exposure really helped a lot.
Very interesting.And as you were learning this and taking on clients again, you fell into your niche naturally.
What sticks out to you now about whether it was mentorship, you were able to seek out books, you read education, you know, you put in your 10,000 hours, right?What, what sticks out to you, um, of people that you studied?
I think that the mentorship thing is really important.So my wife, Laura, I would look at as maybe the first mentor in this journey, right?And that one big advantage I had is I would write stuff and I would
I had no training in copywriting, but I would kind of just see how her stuff was written and kind of model off of that.And then I'd be like, hey, does this look good or not?
And she, fortunately, usually said, yeah, it looks good, but what about this or maybe change that?So that helped. 13, maybe early 14, late 13, this guy hired me off warrior forum and I was charging, I think, $497 for a sales letter at that time.
And he said, Hey, I'll pay you 997, but just make it really good.And I was, you know, oh my gosh, really excited for that.And that guy, he's, he's the part of a group of guys in Romania who are very like secretive still, so I won't even say his name.
But at the time, he's partnered with try and Sava who's done a bunch of survival stuff.And and they became like mentors to me too.So they're the first ones where they're like, hey, this is good, but here's how you can be better.Study this, right?
Study fascinations or curiosity bullets, which some people may be familiar with, where essentially, you're selling an info product and you're like, inside, you're going to discover the number one reason why most doctors
tell you to avoid aspirin and what you should take instead.Or, you know, the weird car wash trick that can generate an extra, you know, $1,000 a month in income, no matter what business you're in, even if you don't own a car.
Or, you know, just weird things that you hear it and you're like, oh man, like, what is that?I want to get inside and find out.
The same thing with like sales copy, like ads, email, sales letters, like they give me really marked up, like, you know, word docs where they have transcripts of things or, and so that was, really helpful.
And the point I would make, as someone who has been lucky enough to be kind of in a leadership position when it comes to, you know, copywriting and things of that nature, and really just entrepreneurship in general, is a lot of people will message me at like, Hi, will you be my mentor?
Right?And it doesn't really work that way ever.I think the ways that you get a mentor or really works is, you know, often, they'll start off as,
like a client, and some in many cases, right, if you're a service provider, they're, they hire you, you're doing work, they see the talent and potential in you, and they decide to invest more than just money, they invest their time into helping you.
And then I think the other way is, frankly, like kind of pain, right?So masterminds, or coaching, things of that nature, where you'll Like I've had many times where I've joined a mastermind and I've paid kind of, you know, to have access to a person.
And then after a year or two or whatever it is, as I've grown, it may not even make sense to stay in the mastermind, but I stay friends with that person and then I can still ask them questions.
And so I think that's really important because so many people, like, Yeah, I've just never really heard of someone being like, hey, be my mentor and the mentor being like, oh, I'm really busy and have a thousand things going on.
But sure, I'm going to just sort of put a bunch of time.Yeah.So I was very lucky to have those mentors.
I one time heard Gary Vaynerchuk say one of the best things he's done his career is pay for his friends.
And even, you know, I can speak selfishly to, you know, things that I've done in my career that accelerated my learning path is, you know, paying for a seat at that table.
And it's same way with selling online or anything, you know, those that pay, pay attention.And have you felt that that was a huge accelerator for you is joining masterminds or starting your own?You can speak to both of those.
Yeah, a thousand percent.On the joining side, I'll go there first because, you know, to continue my arc or whatever, in 2015 I started a supplement company and I did like a million dollars the first year, but I lost $200,000, right?And I kind of
didn't know those parts of running the business.Just a lot of things I didn't know.And it was really difficult.And I had the dark night of the soul where I'm like, how am I going to make payroll?
Should I just go become a CMO or go back to copywriting work?Whatever.And then I went to Ed O'Keefe, he used to run a mastermind in our space.And I went to Ed's mastermind and suddenly it was like, like traffic was a big issue for me, right?
And I met somebody there who connected me to a large affiliate who started running traffic.
And then I was paying all this money for the supplement inventory and somebody connected me to a supplement company that could do like my custom formulas, but on demand because I was in the mastermind with them.
So suddenly that saved me hundreds of thousands.And so basically in the second year, I did 23 million. It's a holy cow.Yeah, right.Yeah.A million to 23 million.And I seriously attribute pretty much all of that to masterminds.
And and then over the years since then, I've continued to join different ones.
And whether it was as a business owner or, you know, as a copywriter, you know, getting client work or an agency owner or whatever, I've done a lot of things because I have ADD.But, you know, like it's the ROI.
I've never joined a mastermind and not gotten an ROI, like a significant ROI.Right.
It's a big investment, but yeah That's and I didn't know that's incredible.That's worth on that could be a whole podcast episode on itself And yeah, the our eyes you've gotten out of that Do you feel like This quick story will provide more context.
I've seen people say they don't get value out of masterminds or have heard it and you kind of like, all right, what'd you do?And it seems like they just did nothing, right?
They paid their fee, didn't really contribute and kind of did nothing and they didn't see a result.Do you feel like there's a process you take with being in these groups of people, the value you want to give, the involvement you want to have?
Because masterminds now, you know, whether it's like a Slack channel or Facebook group, like there's a circle, there's an area where you can congregate.Did you,
develop some sort of systems where you felt like you were giving a lot of value and then in return you were able to get you know contact with supplement manufacturers you know traffic agencies affiliates yeah i definitely i think
I certainly tried to give value.I also just try to focus on, you know, relationships and friendships.I do think that a lot of the time it's like I don't I don't actually drink anymore.I stopped drinking a couple of years ago.
But so you don't have to be you, but you need the bar.I'm still at bars that I'm just sober now.Right.But yeah, like. you know, just being at a bar and talking with people about what's going on in their life and their business.
It's being less transactional and more relational, right, in those approaches.Because when people like you, they just want to help you, right?And so I think that's a big part of it.
And then to the broader question you, or the broader point around, you know, you kind of, you get back what you put in.That's, that's huge.Because even I do have a master, I've run several different masterminds.And the one I have now is,
like more 60 ish business owners all doing between three and 100 million a year.
And you know, there's like an actual mastermind component, we have a couple kind of masterminds in person per year, there's a WhatsApp group, and then they can submit stuff for feedback.And so what's funny there is you think like, okay, like,
Even my sales letter for it, which I need to redo, is like, hey, I'll train your team on copy and conversion rate optimization, things of that nature.
But what I found is a lot of the business owners actually go to those calls and submit things about higher level strategy around like, hey, pricing or improving conversion rates or whatever it is.
And like, we just had a guy join two weeks ago, and I was looking at, this would be a good tidbit for people listening who are, anyone who's got like a funnel.
They're selling a physical product, but they had their call to action on the button, like, you know, their buy now button on their landing page, right? everyone's kind of Ecom now and they run VSLs, they might do it as a Facebook ad.
And it's like a shorter video sales letter, maybe 3 to 15 minutes or whatever it is.But the call to action was like, you know, try it risk free, like a bunch of times, but it wasn't a trial, right?It was just a one time purchase.And so I'm like,
people are so wary and freaked out by trials that just saying try risk-free is probably really hurting your conversion rate and create a lot of fear, uncertainty and doubt.
And so if you're offering this as like 70% off, like what it is on Amazon and the actual retail price, like I would just say, you know, get it now for 70% off or something like that.
And like that one tweak basically took the conversion rate from not from a like on that page from 10 to like 13.5%.
So he was like, Oh, wow, like, that's gonna, you know, make me several thousand extra dollars per day pays for the mastermind hundreds of times over.
But I've had people join the mastermind or, you know, I've seen other masterminds have been a part of two where they join and don't participate at all.And it's the most frustrating thing in the world.Because yeah, if you don't
you can't join something, not participate in it, and then expect an ROI.It's like you've got to actually be a part of it.And then the last thing I'll say is part of this is having the humility to ask for help, right?
Even for me, when I first was joining Masterminds, because then you have to be vulnerable, and you want to maybe show this appearance of, I'm crushing it, I'm killing it, things are going great.And that can kind of be true.
A lot of things can be going well, but If you don't have any problems in your business and you're probably not going hard enough, right?
Like there's always problems in any business and that's like the nature of being in business and solving problems that become increasingly complex as you level up and scale.And so being able to have the humility and the, you know, the
Again, just being able to say, hey, I'm really struggling with this.This is a problem for me.Because once you do that, people can help.
But if you will never admit that anything's not going well or that you can never be honest about a problem, then nobody can help you.So I think that's a huge part of it, too.
Definitely.I couldn't agree more.And even just with myself now being lucky enough to be in a few mastermind groups as we speak, it's always, you know, what's wrong?And you'd be, you know, pleasantly surprised.
I mean, it's not the best way to put it, but other people have the same issues too, right?So, you know, more than likely they will.Like, oh yeah, I have that same problem too.
It's almost like, you know, as a kid in class, you're scared to ask the question and then you do, you know, to get over that fear of looking silly and then, you know, the whole class is wondering the same thing.And you're like, oh, okay.
Like we're all connected.
It's also been I would just say to like, I'm sure you've seen this as well.But even like really big businesses that you think are super down and crushing it, have very like, obvious bleeding neck pain points.And I'll use an example.
I don't think they'll be mad at me like, like v shred.So I know the v shred guys really well, a lot of people listening or watching may be familiar with them.And I helped them kind of I met Nick, the CEO, and Vince, who's the spokesperson in 2018.
Vince actually lives in my old house in Vegas now for several years.And, you know, they're doing like 300 million plus per year now, but for years, their tech, they've just had issues with their tech, right?
With their funnel and their like reporting and CRMs.And they've had these tech issues that have been a pain point for them.They're still doing 300 million a year.
So it's like not bad, but you'd think, okay, like, well, vShred must have it all figured out. And it's like, they have a lot of stuff figured out.
They're amazing, they're great operators, they're really smart marketers, but they have these really bleeding neck problems in their business.
And like, back to what I said, every, I'm sure, you know, ClickFunnels, you guys have things where, you know, you're doing incredible, but there's things that you wish were more optimized that you're working on.
It'll be weird if you did, it'd be really bizarre, you know?So it's important for people to know that, I think, because they tend to think, People at a level higher than them must have everything figured out, but nobody does.
Great point.I appreciate you sharing that too. A couple of things I want to hit on.I want to go in a decent order because I've had some questions.
How would you address, and you may get this a lot, so if it's kind of old and you're like, oh, eye roll, my apologies.
But even on the ideation standpoint, or even one thing I'm new to, is on the conversion optimization front, how do you see AI playing a piece in copywriting in the next decade or so?
No, I think it's a great question.And I pretty early on was like, oh, wow, AI will replace most copywriters, which was not a popular opinion amongst copywriters still kind of isn't.But there's a I think AI right now, so I use it a lot.
I have like a tool where you can, like freeadcopy.com, you can go and essentially it's got templates for everything from ads, advertorials, emails, mini sales letters, leads.You put in some inputs.
Thank you, man.And then the AI writes the copy for you. So is it the best copy in the world?Is it better than what I would write?Most of the time, no.But there's often sections that are just as good as what I would have written had I done it.
And most copywriters, to be honest, aren't that good.And that's OK.It's like any industry.I don't mean that in a mean way.It's just like there's an 80-20 and a 90-10 and a 95-5 rule.And so AI is already better than probably 80%
maybe 85% of copywriters.And people don't like hearing that, but it's true.It's only going to get better.
But even if it doesn't get better, then it's still such a powerful tool because one of the hardest things for people is getting a good first draft of anything, of an ad, of a sales page, of whatever it is.And so if you can use AI,
and get a really good first draft in like minutes, that saves you so much time.And then you or an experienced copywriter or copy chief or whoever can go in and, you know, tweak this and that.
Well, I would say it like this or, you know, that phrase is a little weird.It's just it saves you, you know, should take like 10% of the time to write a copy if it used to, you know, because that's a huge thing.
Dang, that's odd.And have you seen the adoption there with freeadcopy.com?
It's been able to, you know, enhance the businesses that have been using it and that one, they're saving time, but two, it's kind of an improvement of what they were doing before.
Oh, yeah, we get tons of like testimonials and stories from people where, you know, it beat their control ads or their control emails or whatever it is.And that's what's cool about free ad copy is the distribution of users is really like diverse.
So there's copywriters using it, but there's also a lot of agency owners and a lot of business owners.And because I think, you know, like copy is really important.It's not the only thing, right?
Going back to CRO and your tech stack and using something like ClickFunnels where it's gonna make life 10 times easier than not using ClickFunnels.There's a lot of things that are also very important.
But being able to just have really solid copy very quickly, yeah, it's a huge thing.And most people's copy, again, having seen inside
of 1000 plus businesses over the last five years, including, you know, every step of their sort of funnel and customer acquisition process, and even their lifetime value stuff with emails, it's like, you know, the vast majority of them are doing it with like mediocre
copy and that's okay because they have a great product or a great offer or they're they're doing other things really well, but if they can elevate, you know, that's such a huge advantage if you have great copy that connects more of people and Yeah, now it's easier than it's ever been
Yeah.And, you know, we'll see what it does on the other front.Have you, have you seen in, you know, your career, your level of expertise, people leveraging AI to help enhance sales letters?
Cause I've, you know, I spoke to Amanda Dobson, who's on the episode of ClickFunnels Radio. And she was saying how they've been using a lot of just prompts and chat GPT to actually help optimize sales pages.
And for me, I was like, I always thought it was like, you know, give me the 10 top problems that a business professional hasn't done it on.It spits out facts for you.It's like a research assistant, but they're actually using it to convert better.
Um, are you seeing that at all too?
Yeah.I mean, I'll be honest.We're not using it a ton in that way, but I, I've definitely used it to troubleshoot things, for example, where I'll give it like GPT, you know, 4.0, give it a screenshot of landing page and say, you know, here's the page.
Here's like the current metrics.What would you optimize?I mean, just as simple as that, right?You can, you can literally just do that and it will give you very good recommendations.What split tests would you recommend that I run right to this page?
So those things, and then actually the data analysis part is really valuable too, where I've had issues where maybe
You know, and a lot of people listening or watching can relate to this where there's a good day where your funnel just seems like it's like your metrics go down a bunch, like your, you know, cost to acquire customers higher, maybe fewer people are making it to the checkout or whatever it is.
And you're kind of like, why is that?Is it just an anomaly?Is it just a bad day that will happen?Is there something weird going on somewhere in our funnel?And so I've had times where I'll give a GPT-4.0 screenshots of Google Analytics.
Like, hey, here's what our normal journey looks like and the percentage of users making each step.Here's what happened on this day, whatever.Here's some additional relevant data for you to parse through.What do you think happened?
And it will give suggestions sometimes that I would never have thought of that we'll go investigate and realize there was something just completely random that we had messed up in our funnel or something like that.
And so it saved us actually tremendous amounts of money.That's a really underrated use as well, is having to analyze data.
Sure, that's worth a consulting fee right there.Okay, one point I wanted to hit on, because me, selfishly, I get to use the platform to maybe ask selfish questions.I'm bullish on this.
And this might not surprise you based on what we've talked about in the past, but I'm not a social media marketing expert, but The next five years on Twitter or X, whatever, I think is going to be amazing.
And by nature, I love the art of persuasion through the written word.So I think Twitter has just attracted to me more naturally because I love writing and reading and stuff like that.
You're pretty active on Twitter and have had some threads really go viral in recent, you know, recent history.Do you echo that testament and why Twitter?I just want to talk about Twitter with you.
I think that, yeah, for people who go find me on Twitter, the warning and caveat is I will drop some really valuable marketing, copywriting knowledge or wisdom, and then I'll just complain about the deep state and like, you know, fine.
I'm on Twitter for me.I made that very intentional decision of like, I'm not trying to like grow a following where I'm like, I could, I get it, but I have enough other things that make me money and Twitter is for me.And I love to share.
I want to help people.I want to have impact.But sometimes I also just want to complain about the deep state.So that's my caveat for everybody.But I love Twitter because I think it's I think the users are really good on it, to be honest with you.
Like Facebook, I really post on Facebook.Yeah, because on Facebook, you'll post something and everyone just goes to argue.It's like, well, I had this experience.Like, well, no, I don't think so.
And people just are they again, I can be political on Twitter sometimes when people start arguing about politics, when you're talking about like the color of a checkout button, you're like, what is happening right now?
Whereas on Twitter, people generally are very supportive.They'll share their experience.
A lot of people are anonymous, which I think is actually very valuable because they're anonymous, they're more comfortable sharing more details about a business or their experiences than if they had not been anonymous.
And I'm also a big free speech fan.So people who
like, you know, during, I won't make this a big thing about the pandemic, but you know, I got like, I shared some things that are like about the lab leak stuff, which is common knowledge now, that there's a high probability.
And it wasn't like anything, it was like, hey, this article from the former publisher or editor of Nature was saying maybe it's a lab leak.It was like that.And, you know, Facebook took it down and suspended my account.
And that really left a bad taste in my mouth.And so I just personally like that on, on Twitter, X, you know, I think, there's more sort of leeway to have dialogue and conversation, even if people are wrong, right?
Even if you disagree with people, it's just school.And then the impact to that point, like I've had, like Bill Ackman, like a tweeter I have, or there's an author named Michael Mobison, who wrote a book called Think Twice about sort of
decision-making and cognitive biases.And I listed his book in a list of books that I've read, and then he liked it.And it's like, you can really actually have impact with people who are doing really impressive things.
And so, yeah, I just really like the platform.I'm with you on it.
Yeah, I think just the changes they're making to it even implementing like live video now.I read somewhere that video can now be in spaces or it will be and how they're reengineering their ad platform.
Like I really do think that it's because it only has I think I'm going to be off a little bit but about 500 million active users.
Where there's a lot of room to grow to catch up to the Facebook to the Instagram So I still think that we're in the early adoption of it in terms like where they're trying to go So I think it it's it's the water cooler of the world right?
It's gonna be it's a lot of fun.I love Twitter Okay, I had to selfishly ask that but of course as we sort of tie a bow on this I
back to copywriting and we have a large audience base that is looking to make you know that first dollar online right to see that paypal balance and like oh my gosh this is real if someone's looking you know in in this light to get started because it's a great path maybe my opinions are biased but a great path for a beginner to start getting clients whether it's anything but for this one it's copywriting if you had 30 days to start from zero what would you suggest someone who's listening to start to get the first couple of clients and get some experience under their belt
Yeah, the biggest things I would do, I would, you know, I'd look at stuff that's working for like a, you know, brand you like, or companies you're aware of, like, like, look at their emails or their ads or whatever it is.
To be pretty honest today, I'd probably, you know, get transcripts of those things.And then, you know, use AI to be like, hey, here's a bunch of information on this brand.Here's ads that are doing, like, what are other
What are other hooks we could come up with?What are some that would be really compelling?Because I probably focus on ads and emails because it's shorter form copyright.What are some compelling hooks?
Things that would grab somebody's attention in the first five seconds, like opening lines, whatever.I'd get a list of those.I'd give, let's say, Claude.I love Claude a lot.Hey, Claude, here's detail on the brand.Here's some ads that have worked.
Now we're going to write some new ads.Here's the hooks.Go ahead and write an ad with this hook.We want to make it different while still capturing these specific things about the brand, go ahead.And honestly, I would do stuff like that.
And I would get like, you know, a handful of ads that I thought were solid or emails or whatever it is.
And then honestly, I would probably go to those brands, reach out to them on LinkedIn, or if you found the email address of somebody or on X or whatever, and be like, Hey, you know, I'm a copywriter.
I don't think you have to say that I'm brand new and just getting started.To be honest with you, I think that's like, you're sort of just making it harder for yourself.You don't have to lie and say you're like a seasoned OG copywriter.
Just be like, hey, I'm a copywriter.I admire your brand.And, you know, I actually went ahead and created some ads for your emails.
You know, feel free to use them if, you know, they do well, like would love to hear about that and talk about helping you guys more.And if, you know, you don't use them, no problem.
But I just want to share because there's that whole principle of reciprocity and I used to I recommended this before AI, but took a lot more time, energy, effort and manual labor.But now it's like super easy to do that.
And but again, if you use AI kind of correctly, I'm going to use free copy, by the way, of course, right, too.But um, yeah, you know, like, like, It's people will generally pay attention.I'm always amazed by that.
I'm partnering a company doing peptides like GLP ones and we're doing, you know, two to three million a month right now.We started six months ago and it's going well.And I'm, you know, I've really helped build that entire company, but.
The CEO kind of founder guy has a laboratory background, and I love him.He's a great guy.But I'm kind of shocked because he gets like DMs on LinkedIn from people about just, hey, you're paying too much for merchant processing and we can save, right?
And you would think it would be like, okay, like, I'm gonna get DMs all the time.But every time he gets a DM like that, he comes to myself and the CEO and he's like, guys, we're paying too much immersion processing, we need to save.
And I'm like, Oh, man, like, this stuff works, right.
And so, you know, I think, if you can identify, like, if they have a pain point on copy, or ads, or emails, and you just do that to enough people, it's a numbers game, like anything, I think you'd have a good chance of, of getting clients.
And then the other thing I'll say, which will be a plug for quick funnels, but it's a heartfelt plug, not me just trying to pander is I do think if you can learn
kind of like, you know, how to set up a funnel for people, how to, you know, do those steps for them, right, then you become even more valuable, because now you're like, not only am I gonna write the copy for you, but I can actually build this landing page for you, I can, you know, put in the upsell, or I can, if you can do those things for prospective client as well, then you're really alleviating a pain point, because now,
you don't give them the copy and they become the bottleneck, right?You can help them through that whole process.
And so that's where a lot of people in the ClickFunnels universe were, even if they think like, well, I'm not starting a business right now.Although frankly, service providers can have their own website of ClickFunnels too, of course, and should.
But even just understanding the platform and being able to quickly build funnels and landing pages for people, I think is actually a really good differentiator also.
I definitely couldn't agree more.That's awesome.If anyone does that, you're tweeting people.Tag Stephanie.I got some cool prizes we can ship you for those listeners that follow that advice.
Set for people that you know, want to opt in, want to study more of your content, want to get on free at copy.com.I think I just answered my question.But where do you think?Where should we send them?Where should they go next?
Yeah, I think the best place is probably free ad copy.com.When you the way it works is you'll sign up, you get 10 free credits, which basically use a credit to run a prompt or there's also a bunch of training as a whole learning component.
Like we have something from one of your guys's challenges in there.It's like an hour long video from Russell, we have So we have great content.And then you can refer people with a link and get more credits that roll over every month.
You get new credits every month on top of that.And then we do have basically unlimited credits for $97 a year thing that we launched maybe a month and a half, two months ago.
That's actually been extremely popular because then you can just sort of everything.But I'm really like, because I'm running a bunch of businesses and things, and I'm not doing a lot of client work these days, and I'm not personally trying to like,
train and teach copywriters through anything that I'm doing.I'm making free ad copy, that's the thing.I have a great copywriting course called the RMBC Method.I used to charge $1,000 for it, sold thousands of copies of it.It's gold standard.
I'm just putting out free ad copy.So for basically $97, you know, for a year, you can have that course.And I've got an econ course, you get that, like, basically everything, I'm trying to make it as low cost as possible.
And so, and then we also send out value emails to the list, like and things of that nature, too.So that's probably the best place, of course, you can find me on Twitter.And, you know, if you can put up with my political side of it, you'll be happy.
That's awesome.Stefan, again, I mentioned this to you earlier.I know your time is valuable.I don't take it for granted.I know our audience doesn't either.Thank you so much for coming on and sharing all this with us.
Yeah, of course.I really appreciate it, Ben.Thanks for having me and thanks everybody who stuck around and listened and hopefully you got some value from it.
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